[Emc-users] OT: Fanuc 0M setup

[Roland Jollivet]

Thanks for all the replies.
I'll know more when I get the machine. The agent will probably do the mod,
but even then I'm hesitant. If he screws up I'm the one sitting with a big
anchor...

I think I'll use it as-is for a few months, learn more, then take the leap.

Roland

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 22:16, Dave Cole  wrote:

> I forget what version of the Fanuc Controllers this applies to, but
> there were some controllers that had a compact flash slot on the front.
> The compact flash slot was used to load and read out the PLC program
> logic and the other controller settings.   The programming was done
> offline on a laptop and the logic was written to the compact flash
> module, then the module was used to load the controllers memory.
> It was awkward.
> You needed a $$ license to run the software.
> This was years ago, but the Fanuc tech guy was charging way over $200/hr
> to make changes.
> Dave
>
> On 10/20/2020 10:49 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> > On 10/20/2020 02:29 AM, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> >> Also, if I want to ditch the controller at a later stage, are the Fanuc
> >> servo drives interfaceable to EMC?
> >>
> > Can you say what servo amps you have?  The oldest Fanuc had standard
> > analog velocity servos, but instead of a DC tachometer, they
> > synthesized the tach signal from the encoder.  Some machines had the
> > tach in the motor but didn't use it, so it could be set up to use the
> > existing tach.  This applies to the brush motor (yellow cap) series.
> >
> > Later units had brushless motors (red cap) and the servo amps were
> > supplied 6 separate PWM signals, one for each transistor.  That uses
> > up a lot of PWM outputs.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[Scott Harwell via Emc-users]

 The KB drives are solid. They have been around for many years and work well. 
The last one I used was for an index motor on a large lathe and it ran for 
years no problems. I don't think it is fast enough for a servo.
Scott H


On Tuesday, October 20, 2020, 7:00:00 PM CDT, Dave Cole 
 wrote:  
 
 
I didn't think that we were talking about positioning.
I thought you were talking about a spindle drive.
I think it could be used as a low performance positioning drive.
You would need an opto coupler setup for the command obviously if there 
is no isolation.
I'm not sure that the newer KB drives aren't isolated.
But I would probably pursue a real servo drive/motor if you want 
anything with performance.
In the past few years I have implemented AC VFDs on some machines to do 
positioning.
They use a relatively high ratio gearbox.   They are usually in vector 
mode.  Those setups can last a very long time.  But they aren't super 
precise, but then they don't need to be.
A couple of the machines used shot pins to get precise final position.

Dave

On 10/20/2020 5:30 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>
>> From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
>> On 10/20/2020 03:19 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>>> I looked at their web site.  (google KB Electronic DC drive).  Seems like 
>>> pretty nice stuff although I wonder if they would react fast
>> enough to a closed loop control.  If that was even wanted.  One of the 
>> drives does support tachometer feedback.
>> The KB drives are SCR based, so pretty low bandwidth.
>>
>> Jon
> So perfect for treadmills or fans or conveyers or any sort of simple speed 
> control with a knob.  But not ideal for CNC based systems.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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[Emc-users] mesaflash problem, Peter

[Gene Heskett]

Doing some searching, both on mesanet.com and on my 3 wintel machines, 
there is not a linux version of mesaflash I can find thats newer than 
2014.  The linux version is no longer part of the 5i25.zip, nor the 
hostmot2.zip downloads.

So what should I use on that elderly Dell, to reflash a 5i25?

Thanks Peter.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[John Dammeyer]

> > This is the replacement AC Servo.  110SM-M0630MAL with companion
> > drive.  1.8KW, 3000 RPM, 6Nm rated torque, 18Nm peak torque, Peak
> > Current 18A and 2500 line encoder.  Runs very quietly.
> > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/NewPulleys-1.jpg
> >

Just in case anyone is interested I grabbed a shot with the macro lens still on 
the camera (lousy depth of field) and it's not the best picture.  If someone 
wants I'll set up one with better lighting and depth of field that extends over 
the entire board.

Anyway.  The Bergerda drive I use for the spindle can take in 0-10V or 
step/dir.  Since the MESA can't flip PWM and STEP/DIR on the same pins without 
reprogramming, for now I use the PWM so I can still run the spindle under MACH3 
or LinuxCNC.

I used a small far east PWM to 10V module but I needed a carrier board that 
brought the system enable out to the Bergerda along with step/dir and fault for 
the DB25 connector on the drive.

The 0-10V goes to a separate connector on the side of the drive.
Here's the photo.
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindleControl/ServoPWMInterface.jpg

And the schematic.
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindleControl/PWMSpindle.pdf

And the layout.
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindleControl/PWMSpindlePCB.pdf

The DB-25 matches the Bergerda which is configured for either 0-10V or for 
Step/Dir.

One of the annoying things about the drive is that the DIR is different if it's 
0-10V compared to the step pulses.  The optos are high speed and that is then 
converted to differential.

The notes on the top left corner describe the connector pins and the Parameter 
Numbers.  These are the memory locations inside the drive that are set for 
operation.  So PN4 sets the type of control of the motor.

If anyone decides to buy one of these drives I had 4 PCBs made.  

John Dammeyer

 



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[Emc-users] 2 more questionsfor Peter

[Gene Heskett]

1. what firmware should I flash a 5i25 with when I expect to have a 100% 
usable 7i76D plugged into the 5i25's p3, and a 100% usable std sainsmart 
5 axis parport bob plugged into its p2?

2. I've rebuilt the p2 cable, it was 3 or 4 years old and pin 7 was 
several hundred ohms. And it now rings good. dmesg says I should see 
pwmgen #1's dir sig on p2-05, and its pwmgen #1 pwm sig on p2-06. 
Scoped, p2-06 is good all the way thru a std sainsmart 5 axis parport 
bob. But pin p2-05 is stuck on ground even when unplugged from the bob.

Wrong 5i25 firmware, a firmware bug or a bad 5i25? This is one of the 3 
you sent me about 4 years ago when I originally cnc'd a GO704.  The 
other 2 are still in the pink static bag.

Thanks Peter

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[Dave Cole]

I didn't think that we were talking about positioning.
I thought you were talking about a spindle drive.
I think it could be used as a low performance positioning drive.
You would need an opto coupler setup for the command obviously if there 
is no isolation.

I'm not sure that the newer KB drives aren't isolated.
But I would probably pursue a real servo drive/motor if you want 
anything with performance.
In the past few years I have implemented AC VFDs on some machines to do 
positioning.
They use a relatively high ratio gearbox.   They are usually in vector 
mode.  Those setups can last a very long time.  But they aren't super 
precise, but then they don't need to be.

A couple of the machines used shot pins to get precise final position.

Dave

On 10/20/2020 5:30 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:



From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
On 10/20/2020 03:19 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

I looked at their web site.  (google KB Electronic DC drive).  Seems like 
pretty nice stuff although I wonder if they would react fast

enough to a closed loop control.  If that was even wanted.  One of the drives 
does support tachometer feedback.
The KB drives are SCR based, so pretty low bandwidth.

Jon

So perfect for treadmills or fans or conveyers or any sort of simple speed 
control with a knob.  But not ideal for CNC based systems.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[John Dammeyer]

Those are the types used for robots or drones?

> -Original Message-
> From: linux...@rodes.biz [mailto:linux...@rodes.biz]
> Sent: October-20-20 4:46 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.
> 
> Try one of these DC drives.
> Work pretty well.  I have 3 on my Bridgeport Series II
> 
> https://www.cytron.io/p-20amp-6v-30v-dc-motor-driver
> 
> and Amazon has 'em.
> 
> N.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 2:33 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.
> 
> On Tuesday 20 October 2020 16:04:16 Dave Cole wrote:
> 
> > What about using a common KB Electronics DC drive?
> > Woot.com (Amazon discount site) is selling one for $89.  I think they
> > can commonly be found on Ebay as well.
> >
> > Dave
> 
> I haven't got $99 in the 5, 3 different types I'm playing with.
> Technology does move on and this stuff just keeps getting cheaper.
> 
> The mesa spinx1 to interface the audio boards costs more than any one of 
> these. But at the expense of 2 more output pins, the
> olimex board can run a 40 volt, 30 amp motor.  Thats a 1.2 kw servo.  Even 
> for this job, serious overkill.
> 
> > On 10/19/2020 5:22 PM, grumpy--- via Emc-users wrote:
> > > On Sun, 18 Oct 2020, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > >> Way back in 2003 I started a project to control the surplus tread
> > >> mill motors I had acquired.  At that time I was still just casting
> > >> parts for making my Gingery Lathe and thought about making my own
> > >> DC Servo motor controller.
> > >>
> > >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MOTOR1-5.JPG
> > >>
> > >> The first prototype had a bunch of problems and then regular paying
> > >> work took over, I needed the bench space and never revived the
> > >> project. http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/REVA0059.JPG
> > >>
> > >> The controller was the MC33030
> > >>
> > >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MC33030-D.pdf
> > >>
> > >> Knowing what I know now I'd never use this device but back then...
> > >
> > > i have a 1 hp treadmill motor i need a controller for in view of you
> > > past experience what would you use now
> 
> Using a treadmill controller is, IMO, a great way to shoot yourself in the 
> foot, or worse. Think outside that box, far better stuff at
> lower cost is available today.
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[linuxcnc]

Try one of these DC drives.
Work pretty well.  I have 3 on my Bridgeport Series II

https://www.cytron.io/p-20amp-6v-30v-dc-motor-driver

and Amazon has 'em.

N.

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 2:33 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

On Tuesday 20 October 2020 16:04:16 Dave Cole wrote:

> What about using a common KB Electronics DC drive?
> Woot.com (Amazon discount site) is selling one for $89.  I think they 
> can commonly be found on Ebay as well.
>
> Dave

I haven't got $99 in the 5, 3 different types I'm playing with.  
Technology does move on and this stuff just keeps getting cheaper.

The mesa spinx1 to interface the audio boards costs more than any one of these. 
But at the expense of 2 more output pins, the olimex board can run a 40 volt, 
30 amp motor.  Thats a 1.2 kw servo.  Even for this job, serious overkill.

> On 10/19/2020 5:22 PM, grumpy--- via Emc-users wrote:
> > On Sun, 18 Oct 2020, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >> Way back in 2003 I started a project to control the surplus tread 
> >> mill motors I had acquired.  At that time I was still just casting 
> >> parts for making my Gingery Lathe and thought about making my own 
> >> DC Servo motor controller.
> >>
> >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MOTOR1-5.JPG
> >>
> >> The first prototype had a bunch of problems and then regular paying 
> >> work took over, I needed the bench space and never revived the 
> >> project. http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/REVA0059.JPG
> >>
> >> The controller was the MC33030
> >>
> >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MC33030-D.pdf
> >>
> >> Knowing what I know now I'd never use this device but back then...
> >
> > i have a 1 hp treadmill motor i need a controller for in view of you 
> > past experience what would you use now

Using a treadmill controller is, IMO, a great way to shoot yourself in the 
foot, or worse. Think outside that box, far better stuff at lower cost is 
available today.
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread, has this been deprecated when mesa cards are used?

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

>
> And indeed, the cable was duff. So I think thats been fixed for a year or
> so, by cutting both connectors off and squeezing new ones on.  And while
> I was putzing with that, the 150 watt audio board arrived, and I've been
> playing with that. Laying the motor on the kitchen counter, with a 20 hz
> sine wave drive from a function generator, the motor makes a great hand
> massager as I have to hang onto it. :)  Its bouncing the output shaft
> back and forth about 10 degrees in addition to shaking the motor about
> 1/4" in my hand. However it also appears to be going into some sort of
> overload shutdown it takes about 2 seconds to recover from. But with a
> lowered amplitude drive, it ran without undue heat sink temps for a half
> an hour. Long enough my ancient hands are still about half numb from
> hanging onto it.  So that idea has promise also, as a class D servo
> driver. Theoreticly all I have to do is do away with the inputs high
> pass filter to made an analog but class D amplifier. But since this one
> may shut down, I think I'll test the 420 watter when it arrives Friday.


A couple of years ago the same happened to the 5i20 I'm using on one of the
grinders. We spent half of the day trying to figure out what the hell was
happening. We then realize it was the flat cable that was bad.

El mar., 20 oct. 2020 a las 18:22, Gene Heskett ()
escribió:

> On Tuesday 20 October 2020 12:08:28 Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday 20 October 2020 07:08:26 andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 10:22, Gene Heskett 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > [485180.220310] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 008 (P3-05): PWMGen #0,
> > > > pin Out1 (Dir or Down) (Output) [485180.220317] hm2/hm2_5i25.0:
> > > > IO Pin 009 (P3-06): PWMGen #0, pin Out0 (PWM or Up) (Output)
> > > >
> > > > Which is NOT where they actually are on the 7i76D!
> > >
> > > This leads me to suspect that you are not using the firmware that
> > > you think you are, or that you are deliberately using a non-7i76
> > > firmware. The 7i76 does not use _any_ PWM signals, the spindle
> > > interface is part of the smart-serial subsystem.
> >
> > And in a pwmgen driven spindle, TB4 is worthless except for the enable
> > on Jon's pwm-servo which is driveing the 1hp spindle motor.
> >
> > But now that I've found the PWMGEN.0 signals on STEP4, I'm driving the
> > spindle normally from those. Which frees up the 2nd pwmgen I was
> > driving the spindle with.
> >
> > > I would expect those PWM signals to be replacing the stepgen4
> > > outputs.
> >
> > Yes.  Zero, zip, squat, nada mention of that teeny little detail.
> >
> > > So it is all documented, if you allow for the fact that you are
> > > using an incorrect (or at least custom) firmware.
> >
> > In fact, I'm considering swapping the pwmgen.0/.1's duties to drive
> > the spindle from pwmgen.1, (as I was formerly doing for the last 4
> > years) and use pwmgen.0 to drive the BS-1 motor because of pwmgen.0's
> > availability of its complementary dir signals on the stepgen4's pins.
> > Those wires will reach either card in my box so that can be done
> > rather easily. And it will remove 2 comp modules from the hal file.
> > Always desirable on slower cpu's.
> >
> And indeed, the cable was duff. So I think thats been fixed for a year or
> so, by cutting both connectors off and squeezing new ones on.  And while
> I was putzing with that, the 150 watt audio board arrived, and I've been
> playing with that. Laying the motor on the kitchen counter, with a 20 hz
> sine wave drive from a function generator, the motor makes a great hand
> massager as I have to hang onto it. :)  Its bouncing the output shaft
> back and forth about 10 degrees in addition to shaking the motor about
> 1/4" in my hand. However it also appears to be going into some sort of
> overload shutdown it takes about 2 seconds to recover from. But with a
> lowered amplitude drive, it ran without undue heat sink temps for a half
> an hour. Long enough my ancient hands are still about half numb from
> hanging onto it.  So that idea has promise also, as a class D servo
> driver. Theoreticly all I have to do is do away with the inputs high
> pass filter to made an analog but class D amplifier. But since this one
> may shut down, I think I'll test the 420 watter when it arrives Friday.
>
> In the meantime superglue is curing on the new db25 plug, hopefully to
> hold the assembly tighter that the ones I hit the 55 gallon can with.
>
> Thanks Andy.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 20 October 2020 16:04:16 Dave Cole wrote:

> What about using a common KB Electronics DC drive?
> Woot.com (Amazon discount site) is selling one for $89.  I think they
> can commonly be found on Ebay as well.
>
> Dave

I haven't got $99 in the 5, 3 different types I'm playing with.  
Technology does move on and this stuff just keeps getting cheaper.

The mesa spinx1 to interface the audio boards costs more than any one of 
these. But at the expense of 2 more output pins, the olimex board can 
run a 40 volt, 30 amp motor.  Thats a 1.2 kw servo.  Even for this job, 
serious overkill.

> On 10/19/2020 5:22 PM, grumpy--- via Emc-users wrote:
> > On Sun, 18 Oct 2020, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >> Way back in 2003 I started a project to control the surplus tread
> >> mill motors I had acquired.  At that time I was still just casting
> >> parts for making my Gingery Lathe and thought about making my own
> >> DC Servo motor controller.
> >>
> >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MOTOR1-5.JPG
> >>
> >> The first prototype had a bunch of problems and then regular paying
> >> work took over, I needed the bench space and never revived the
> >> project. http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/REVA0059.JPG
> >>
> >> The controller was the MC33030
> >>
> >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MC33030-D.pdf
> >>
> >> Knowing what I know now I'd never use this device but back then...
> >
> > i have a 1 hp treadmill motor i need a controller for
> > in view of you past experience what would you use now

Using a treadmill controller is, IMO, a great way to shoot yourself in 
the foot, or worse. Think outside that box, far better stuff at lower 
cost is available today.
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> On 10/20/2020 03:19 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >
> > I looked at their web site.  (google KB Electronic DC drive).  Seems like 
> > pretty nice stuff although I wonder if they would react fast
> enough to a closed loop control.  If that was even wanted.  One of the drives 
> does support tachometer feedback.
> >
> The KB drives are SCR based, so pretty low bandwidth.
> 
> Jon

So perfect for treadmills or fans or conveyers or any sort of simple speed 
control with a knob.  But not ideal for CNC based systems.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread, has this been deprecated when mesa cards are used?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 20 October 2020 12:08:28 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Tuesday 20 October 2020 07:08:26 andy pugh wrote:
> > On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 10:22, Gene Heskett 
>
> wrote:
> > > [485180.220310] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 008 (P3-05): PWMGen #0,
> > > pin Out1 (Dir or Down) (Output) [485180.220317] hm2/hm2_5i25.0:
> > > IO Pin 009 (P3-06): PWMGen #0, pin Out0 (PWM or Up) (Output)
> > >
> > > Which is NOT where they actually are on the 7i76D!
> >
> > This leads me to suspect that you are not using the firmware that
> > you think you are, or that you are deliberately using a non-7i76
> > firmware. The 7i76 does not use _any_ PWM signals, the spindle
> > interface is part of the smart-serial subsystem.
>
> And in a pwmgen driven spindle, TB4 is worthless except for the enable
> on Jon's pwm-servo which is driveing the 1hp spindle motor.
>
> But now that I've found the PWMGEN.0 signals on STEP4, I'm driving the
> spindle normally from those. Which frees up the 2nd pwmgen I was
> driving the spindle with.
>
> > I would expect those PWM signals to be replacing the stepgen4
> > outputs.
>
> Yes.  Zero, zip, squat, nada mention of that teeny little detail.
>
> > So it is all documented, if you allow for the fact that you are
> > using an incorrect (or at least custom) firmware.
>
> In fact, I'm considering swapping the pwmgen.0/.1's duties to drive
> the spindle from pwmgen.1, (as I was formerly doing for the last 4
> years) and use pwmgen.0 to drive the BS-1 motor because of pwmgen.0's
> availability of its complementary dir signals on the stepgen4's pins.
> Those wires will reach either card in my box so that can be done
> rather easily. And it will remove 2 comp modules from the hal file.
> Always desirable on slower cpu's.
>
And indeed, the cable was duff. So I think thats been fixed for a year or 
so, by cutting both connectors off and squeezing new ones on.  And while 
I was putzing with that, the 150 watt audio board arrived, and I've been 
playing with that. Laying the motor on the kitchen counter, with a 20 hz 
sine wave drive from a function generator, the motor makes a great hand 
massager as I have to hang onto it. :)  Its bouncing the output shaft 
back and forth about 10 degrees in addition to shaking the motor about 
1/4" in my hand. However it also appears to be going into some sort of 
overload shutdown it takes about 2 seconds to recover from. But with a 
lowered amplitude drive, it ran without undue heat sink temps for a half 
an hour. Long enough my ancient hands are still about half numb from 
hanging onto it.  So that idea has promise also, as a class D servo 
driver. Theoreticly all I have to do is do away with the inputs high 
pass filter to made an analog but class D amplifier. But since this one 
may shut down, I think I'll test the 420 watter when it arrives Friday.

In the meantime superglue is curing on the new db25 plug, hopefully to 
hold the assembly tighter that the ones I hit the 55 gallon can with.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[Jon Elson]

On 10/20/2020 03:19 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:


I looked at their web site.  (google KB Electronic DC drive).  Seems like 
pretty nice stuff although I wonder if they would react fast enough to a closed 
loop control.  If that was even wanted.  One of the drives does support 
tachometer feedback.


The KB drives are SCR based, so pretty low bandwidth.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[Jon Elson]

On 10/20/2020 03:04 PM, Dave Cole wrote:

What about using a common KB Electronics DC drive?
Woot.com (Amazon discount site) is selling one for $89.  I 
think they can commonly be found on
Note that these drives are NOT isolated from the mains.  
Anything that doesn't provide isolation for

the command will cause fireworks.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Mark Johnsen [mailto:m...@ijohnsen.com]
> KB electronics is good stuff.  Similar to the Minarik DC drives.
> Industrial rated...
> 
> Don't know about the reaction time for closed loop, but you could call them
> and I'd think their apps engr would have some idea...  My experience
> (probably limited) has not seen those types of DC drives closed loop to
> position, but I would think you could close loop to speed w/ LinuxCNC, but
> how quickly to ramp back to desired speed is the question.
> 
> Mark

On some of them the data sheets say there are trim pots for adjust acceleration 
etc.  So I think they are probably pretty solid devices.  Are they perhaps 
targeting blower and conveyer motors where speed regulation doesn't have to be 
perfect?

Still other than the "please request quote" rather than an online shop and 
price list they appear to be pretty good.   Again I guess it depends on what 
you want to control.

Back when I was testing various sensors I turned this disk with that 555 Timer 
PWM circuit and a small surplus 12V DC motor.   The little project board beside 
it converts the TTL into RS-485 if there's a noisy environment.
http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/photos/SlottedOpto-RS485.jpg

One could even use the LMD18245 as a bridge to control a motor up to about 48V 
and 3A.

John


> 
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 1:20 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: October-20-20 1:04 PM
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.
> > >
> > > What about using a common KB Electronics DC drive?
> > > Woot.com (Amazon discount site) is selling one for $89.? I think they
> > > can commonly be found on Ebay as well.
> > >
> > > Dave
> >
> > I looked at their web site.  (google KB Electronic DC drive).  Seems like
> > pretty nice stuff although I wonder if they would react fast enough to a
> > closed loop control.  If that was even wanted.  One of the drives does
> > support tachometer feedback.
> >
> > John
> >
> > >
> > > On 10/19/2020 5:22 PM, grumpy--- via Emc-users wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 18 Oct 2020, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Way back in 2003 I started a project to control the surplus tread
> > > >> mill motors I had acquired.? At that time I was still just casting
> > > >> parts for making my Gingery Lathe and thought about making my own DC
> > > >> Servo motor controller.
> > > >>
> > > >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MOTOR1-5.JPG
> > > >>
> > > >> The first prototype had a bunch of problems and then regular paying
> > > >> work took over, I needed the bench space and never revived the
> > project.
> > > >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/REVA0059.JPG
> > > >>
> > > >> The controller was the MC33030
> > > >>
> > > >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MC33030-D.pdf
> > > >>
> > > >> Knowing what I know now I'd never use this device but back then...
> > > >
> > > > i have a 1 hp treadmill motor i need a controller for
> > > > in view of you past experience what would you use now
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[Mark Johnsen]

KB electronics is good stuff.  Similar to the Minarik DC drives.
Industrial rated...

Don't know about the reaction time for closed loop, but you could call them
and I'd think their apps engr would have some idea...  My experience
(probably limited) has not seen those types of DC drives closed loop to
position, but I would think you could close loop to speed w/ LinuxCNC, but
how quickly to ramp back to desired speed is the question.

Mark

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 1:20 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: October-20-20 1:04 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.
> >
> > What about using a common KB Electronics DC drive?
> > Woot.com (Amazon discount site) is selling one for $89.� I think they
> > can commonly be found on Ebay as well.
> >
> > Dave
>
> I looked at their web site.  (google KB Electronic DC drive).  Seems like
> pretty nice stuff although I wonder if they would react fast enough to a
> closed loop control.  If that was even wanted.  One of the drives does
> support tachometer feedback.
>
> John
>
> >
> > On 10/19/2020 5:22 PM, grumpy--- via Emc-users wrote:
> > > On Sun, 18 Oct 2020, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > >
> > >> Way back in 2003 I started a project to control the surplus tread
> > >> mill motors I had acquired.� At that time I was still just casting
> > >> parts for making my Gingery Lathe and thought about making my own DC
> > >> Servo motor controller.
> > >>
> > >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MOTOR1-5.JPG
> > >>
> > >> The first prototype had a bunch of problems and then regular paying
> > >> work took over, I needed the bench space and never revived the
> project.
> > >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/REVA0059.JPG
> > >>
> > >> The controller was the MC33030
> > >>
> > >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MC33030-D.pdf
> > >>
> > >> Knowing what I know now I'd never use this device but back then...
> > >
> > > i have a 1 hp treadmill motor i need a controller for
> > > in view of you past experience what would you use now
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> Sent: October-20-20 1:04 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.
> 
> What about using a common KB Electronics DC drive?
> Woot.com (Amazon discount site) is selling one for $89.� I think they
> can commonly be found on Ebay as well.
> 
> Dave

I looked at their web site.  (google KB Electronic DC drive).  Seems like 
pretty nice stuff although I wonder if they would react fast enough to a closed 
loop control.  If that was even wanted.  One of the drives does support 
tachometer feedback.

John

> 
> On 10/19/2020 5:22 PM, grumpy--- via Emc-users wrote:
> > On Sun, 18 Oct 2020, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >
> >> Way back in 2003 I started a project to control the surplus tread
> >> mill motors I had acquired.� At that time I was still just casting
> >> parts for making my Gingery Lathe and thought about making my own DC
> >> Servo motor controller.
> >>
> >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MOTOR1-5.JPG
> >>
> >> The first prototype had a bunch of problems and then regular paying
> >> work took over, I needed the bench space and never revived the project.
> >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/REVA0059.JPG
> >>
> >> The controller was the MC33030
> >>
> >> http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MC33030-D.pdf
> >>
> >> Knowing what I know now I'd never use this device but back then...
> >
> > i have a 1 hp treadmill motor i need a controller for
> > in view of you past experience what would you use now
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Fanuc 0M setup

[Dave Cole]

I forget what version of the Fanuc Controllers this applies to, but 
there were some controllers that had a compact flash slot on the front.
The compact flash slot was used to load and read out the PLC program 
logic and the other controller settings.   The programming was done 
offline on a laptop and the logic was written to the compact flash 
module, then the module was used to load the controllers memory.

It was awkward.
You needed a $$ license to run the software.
This was years ago, but the Fanuc tech guy was charging way over $200/hr 
to make changes.

Dave

On 10/20/2020 10:49 AM, Jon Elson wrote:

On 10/20/2020 02:29 AM, Roland Jollivet wrote:

Also, if I want to ditch the controller at a later stage, are the Fanuc
servo drives interfaceable to EMC?

Can you say what servo amps you have?  The oldest Fanuc had standard 
analog velocity servos, but instead of a DC tachometer, they 
synthesized the tach signal from the encoder.  Some machines had the 
tach in the motor but didn't use it, so it could be set up to use the 
existing tach.  This applies to the brush motor (yellow cap) series.


Later units had brushless motors (red cap) and the servo amps were 
supplied 6 separate PWM signals, one for each transistor.  That uses 
up a lot of PWM outputs.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[Dave Cole]

What about using a common KB Electronics DC drive?
Woot.com (Amazon discount site) is selling one for $89.  I think they 
can commonly be found on Ebay as well.


Dave

On 10/19/2020 5:22 PM, grumpy--- via Emc-users wrote:

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020, John Dammeyer wrote:

Way back in 2003 I started a project to control the surplus tread 
mill motors I had acquired.  At that time I was still just casting 
parts for making my Gingery Lathe and thought about making my own DC 
Servo motor controller.


http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MOTOR1-5.JPG

The first prototype had a bunch of problems and then regular paying 
work took over, I needed the bench space and never revived the project.

http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/REVA0059.JPG

The controller was the MC33030

http://www.autoartisans.com/MotorDrives/MC33030-D.pdf

Knowing what I know now I'd never use this device but back then...


i have a 1 hp treadmill motor i need a controller for
in view of you past experience what would you use now


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Re: [Emc-users] addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread, has this been deprecated when mesa cards are used?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 20 October 2020 07:08:26 andy pugh wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 10:22, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > [485180.220310] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 008 (P3-05): PWMGen #0,
> > pin Out1 (Dir or Down) (Output) [485180.220317] hm2/hm2_5i25.0:
> > IO Pin 009 (P3-06): PWMGen #0, pin Out0 (PWM or Up) (Output)
> >
> > Which is NOT where they actually are on the 7i76D!
>
> This leads me to suspect that you are not using the firmware that you
> think you are, or that you are deliberately using a non-7i76 firmware.
> The 7i76 does not use _any_ PWM signals, the spindle interface is part
> of the smart-serial subsystem.

And in a pwmgen driven spindle, TB4 is worthless except for the enable
on Jon's pwm-servo which is driveing the 1hp spindle motor.

But now that I've found the PWMGEN.0 signals on STEP4, I'm driving the 
spindle normally from those. Which frees up the 2nd pwmgen I was driving
the spindle with.

> I would expect those PWM signals to be replacing the stepgen4 outputs.

Yes.  Zero, zip, squat, nada mention of that teeny little detail.

> So it is all documented, if you allow for the fact that you are using
> an incorrect (or at least custom) firmware.

In fact, I'm considering swapping the pwmgen.0/.1's duties to drive the 
spindle from pwmgen.1, (as I was formerly doing for the last 4 years) 
and use pwmgen.0 to drive the BS-1 motor because of pwmgen.0's 
availability of its complementary dir signals on the stepgen4's pins. 
Those wires will reach either card in my box so that can be done rather 
easily. And it will remove 2 comp modules from the hal file. Always 
desirable on slower cpu's.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] trying to trace a missing pwm signal

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 20 October 2020 06:41:53 andy pugh wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 10:30, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > I forget, whatever puts a std bob on its p2, and a 7i76D on its p3.
> > dmesg doesn't show the 5i25 bit file in use.
>
> Does dmesg tell you anything? Are you getting the pinout listing?

Sure, and I've posted the those applicable bits several times now.  
Here is the complete list, but be aware that the pin numbers shown 
for 5i25-p3 are meaningless as they correspond to what would be seen 
if a bob was plugged into the 5i25, not the pins they actually come 
out of the 7i76D on.  

Here is the whole thing but I've stripped the leading times:

hm2: loading Mesa HostMot2 driver version 0.15
hm2_pci: loading Mesa AnyIO HostMot2 driver version 0.7
hm2_pci: discovered 5i25 at :05:00.0
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: Low Level init 0.15
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: Smart Serial Firmware Version 43
Board hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0 Hardware Mode 0 = standard
Board hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0 Software Mode 0 = io_spin
Board hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0 Software Mode 1 = io_ana_spin
Board hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0 Software Mode 2 = io_enc_ana_spin_fv
hm2/hm2_5i25.0: 34 I/O Pins used:
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 000 (P3-01): StepGen #0, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 001 (P3-14): StepGen #0, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 002 (P3-02): StepGen #1, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 003 (P3-15): StepGen #1, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 004 (P3-03): StepGen #2, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 005 (P3-16): StepGen #2, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 006 (P3-04): StepGen #3, pin Direction (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 007 (P3-17): StepGen #3, pin Step (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 008 (P3-05): PWMGen #0, pin Out1 (Dir or Down) 
(Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 009 (P3-06): PWMGen #0, pin Out0 (PWM or Up) (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 010 (P3-07): Smart Serial Interface #0, pin tx0 
(Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 011 (P3-08): Smart Serial Interface #0, pin rx0 
(Input)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 012 (P3-09): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 013 (P3-10): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 014 (P3-11): Encoder #0, pin Index (Input)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 015 (P3-12): Encoder #0, pin B (Input)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 016 (P3-13): Encoder #0, pin A (Input)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 017 (P2-01): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 018 (P2-14): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 019 (P2-02): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 020 (P2-15): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 021 (P2-03): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 022 (P2-16): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 023 (P2-04): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 024 (P2-17): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 025 (P2-05): PWMGen #1, pin Out1 (Dir or Down) (Output
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 026 (P2-06): PWMGen #1, pin Out0 (PWM or Up) (Output)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 027 (P2-07): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 028 (P2-08): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 029 (P2-09): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 030 (P2-10): IOPort
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 031 (P2-11): Encoder #1, pin Index (Input)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 032 (P2-12): Encoder #1, pin B (Input)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:IO Pin 033 (P2-13): Encoder #1, pin A (Input)
hm2/hm2_5i25.0:  registered
hm2_5i25.0: initialized AnyIO board at :05:00.0

Note that the 5i25 p3 pins pin-nums as delivered to the 7i76D are phony 
as a $3 bill, you have to reference the 7i76D.pdf printout for clues as to 
where they actually are, because both a true and complement of each pin 
of the 5i25 are present on the 7i76D on its p2 and p3 connectors.
pwmgen.0 when enabled, replaces stepgen #4 in the assignments above.

The p2 connections are valid, but subject to the direction limits of the
std parport bob plugged into the 5i25's p2 connector so you need the setp's 
for those gpio pins to actually become outputs. And signal traceing thru 
this mess can only be done with an external scope, it doesn't show in the 
halscope channel menu's, nor in the halmeter. AND its the only inputs on 
the 7i76D that respond to 5 volt logic levels except the encoder.0 signals.

Its confusing as can be to put it kindly. In the original .hal file, before
I discovered that, is the reason I used both pwmgen's for the spindle, I 
was actually getting my signals to run the spindle from the bob and pwmgen.1.

But now I need it for axis A and this BS-1 motor.
 
But I have to use 2 comp's to make the dir into 2 complementary signals, 
which I need to drive the enaA and enaB inputs of the olimex driver board 
for direction control. But I think I'm fighting with an iffy cable on p2 
of the 5i25.  Thats my first check when I get out there, but a prescription
program ended and one of my meds for a DM-II went from $49, to $200/month.

Needless to say, that gets sorted by Friday.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."

Re: [Emc-users] OT: Fanuc 0M setup

[Jon Elson]

On 10/20/2020 02:29 AM, Roland Jollivet wrote:

Also, if I want to ditch the controller at a later stage, are the Fanuc
servo drives interfaceable to EMC?

Can you say what servo amps you have?  The oldest Fanuc had 
standard analog velocity servos, but instead of a DC 
tachometer, they synthesized the tach signal from the 
encoder.  Some machines had the tach in the motor but didn't 
use it, so it could be set up to use the existing tach.  
This applies to the brush motor (yellow cap) series.


Later units had brushless motors (red cap) and the servo 
amps were supplied 6 separate PWM signals, one for each 
transistor.  That uses up a lot of PWM outputs.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Fanuc 0M setup

[Todd Zuercher]

I'm not going to be any help there either.  Never tried to retrofit a Fanuc 
machine.  But my understanding is the older the better for trying to retrofit.  
The newer all digital amps (they are more amps than drives because even the 
commutation is done in the control) with optical connections and wonky hi-res 
serial absolute encoders are all but impossible.

For PLC editing start by looking at the PLC, then try to make a change (make 
sure it is backed up first),  Does your machine have a PC front end?  (The 
machines I'm working with all have a PC running the user interface under 
Windows 2k or XP.)  If so, check the HD for Fanuc software such as the "Ladder 
Editing Package".  Our machines that don't  have LEP you can look at and edit 
the PLC through the user interface pressing SYSTEM/PMC/PMCLAD.  It is possible 
editing will be write protected, you might have to contact the machine 
manufacturer or the machine manuals, to get a password to unlock the write 
protection.  Even when unlocked you will have to have the machine in MDI mode 
and set the PWE bit to allow editing (you should also probably have it in 
e-stop as well).  Changes you make don't actually take effect until you save 
and reload the PLC.

Be careful, you can truly screw something up messing around in there if you 
don't know what you are doing.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: andy pugh  
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 3:39 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Fanuc 0M setup

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 08:32, Roland Jollivet  wrote:

> Also, if I want to ditch the controller at a later stage, are the 
> Fanuc servo drives interfaceable to EMC?

Some are.

Which isn't a very helpful answer, I suppose.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for 
the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread, has this been deprecated when mesa cards are used?

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 10:22, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> [485180.220310] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 008 (P3-05): PWMGen #0, pin Out1 
> (Dir or Down) (Output)
> [485180.220317] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 009 (P3-06): PWMGen #0, pin Out0 
> (PWM or Up) (Output)
>
> Which is NOT where they actually are on the 7i76D!

This leads me to suspect that you are not using the firmware that you
think you are, or that you are deliberately using a non-7i76 firmware.
The 7i76 does not use _any_ PWM signals, the spindle interface is part
of the smart-serial subsystem.

I would expect those PWM signals to be replacing the stepgen4 outputs.

So it is all documented, if you allow for the fact that you are using
an incorrect (or at least custom) firmware.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] trying to trace a missing pwm signal

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 10:30, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> I forget, whatever puts a std bob on its p2, and a 7i76D on its p3.
> dmesg doesn't show the 5i25 bit file in use.

Does dmesg tell you anything? Are you getting the pinout listing?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 20 October 2020 04:05:59 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Hi Marcus,
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk
> > [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk] Sent: October-20-20
> > 12:02 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.
> >
> > On 2020-10-19 23:30, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > I haven't looked into what's available from China other than the
> > > Bergerda AC Servos I'm using as a mill spindle and will be using
> > > as the South Bend Lathe Lead screw upgrade.
> >
> > Can you tell me the model of servo, please. And explain the control
> > device?
> > That would help me move forward two ongoing projects (one for a
> > converted 1500W/2HP mill which has been running LinuxCNC for the
> > last 16 years with manual control of spindle speed, and another for
> > a 750W/1HP lathe I am upgrading from a proprietary CNC control
> > system to LinuxCNC, renewing the obsolete electronics and the motors
> > at the same time). Thanks. (It's another excuse to postpone work for
> > a few minutes...)
> >
> > Marcus
>
> I'm totally enamoured with LinuxCNC controlled spindle speed.  Can't
> wait to finish building the spindle encoder part so I can try power
> tapping.
>
> I'm still amazed at the difference in size.  This is the original
> motor, 2HP (1.5kW), 220VAC single phase, 1725 RPM.  Required an
> intermediate 4 step pulley and 4 step pulleys on spindle and motor. 
> And pretty loud. http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/MillDriveSection.jpg
>
> This is the replacement AC Servo.  110SM-M0630MAL with companion
> drive.  1.8KW, 3000 RPM, 6Nm rated torque, 18Nm peak torque, Peak
> Current 18A and 2500 line encoder.  Runs very quietly.
> http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/NewPulleys-1.jpg
>
> I could barely lift the 2HP motor off the top.  This one is quite
> light.  Now to be honest I haven't used it at anywhere near full power
> but I did do some engraving at 3000 RPM.  I'm using PWM from the MESA
> 7i92H and a far east PWM to 0-10V module.  With PWM, 100RPM to 3000
> RPM.  Can't do much less because the PWM module can't do it.
>
It probably can if using the "pdm" mode where it goes into skip a pulse 
mode for the slower stuff.

> I do plan on changing to step/dir control with a separate enable so I
> can turn the spindle by hand.
>
> I had some issues with it decelerating really fast and then vibrating
> when stopped. If I tugged on the spindle I could get it to stop or
> restart vibrating.  A quick email request to Donald at Bergerda in
> China and he talked to his engineers.  Came back with some parameter
> changes and the issues went away.  We also worked out better values
> for decelerating a bit more slowly.
>
> Here's the motor sheet
> http://en.bergerda.com/product/608.html
>
> And the drives with a table to match to the motor.
> http://en.bergerda.com/product/609.html
>
> Overall I found both the big one and a smaller 400W motor easy to work
> with.  Still not entirely happy with the RS485 link.  When the motor
> is disabled I had no trouble using their PC program for configuring
> it.  With the motor enabled the electrical noise was enough to damage
> messages.
>
> But the truth is after the initial playing around I use the front
> panel and buttons and the user manual to set/save parameters.  It's
> pretty easy and fast once you understand some of their terms for
> things.
>
> And Donald Chen has been very helpful.  I do plan on buying some more
> to replace the stepper on the Lathe Z axis and the knee stepper motor
> on the mill.  Not sure how big a motor I'll need for the knee. 
> Currently a 1200oz-in stepper run with a Gecko and 65VDC power supply.
>  Max I get on knee going up is 25 ipm and that's pushing it.
>
> John
>
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] trying to trace a missing pwm signal

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 20 October 2020 03:36:34 andy pugh wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 04:15, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > I am currently setup to use a 2nd  pwmgen in a 5i25, which should
> > come out on the bob plugged onto p2 at pin 5 dir as dir, and pin 6
> > for the pwm.
>
> Only if your firmware has that pwmgen. Which firmware is the 5i25
> flashed with?

I forget, whatever puts a std bob on its p2, and a 7i76D on its p3.
dmesg doesn't show the 5i25 bit file in use.

> The dmesg output should tell you what you have. (or stdio if using
> preempt-rt)
>
> How many pwmgens are enabled in the loadrt hm2_pci line?

2, thats all the 5i25 has.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread, has this been deprecated when mesa cards are used?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 20 October 2020 03:33:58 andy pugh wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 04:31, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > My first ever config use sw steppers, has those addf's. But no
> > config in the last 4 or so years has it.
>
> You still need it if using software pwmgen.

Which I am not, this is the 2nd pwmgen in a 5i25, and it shows up in the
dmesg report as:

[485180.220426] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 025 (P2-05): PWMGen #1, pin Out1 
(Dir or Down) (Output)
[485180.220434] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 026 (P2-06): PWMGen #1, pin Out0 
(PWM or Up) (Output)

I have the A axis FF0 set to 1, and have expanded the ferror etc to allow
a static feed thru of the pid, which should be generating some pulses I
could see on pin 6 of that bob.  But its not there. And was a week ago 
because I had both pwmgens fed in parallel. Now I have separated them
so I can use this one to drive an h bridge on a $12 olimex card. I have 
sussed out how to drive the spindle from the first pwmgen, which is on 
unused gpio's of the 7i76, bypassing the analog spindle control on the
7i76D. This is actually quite nice since the 7i76D gives both polarity's
of the signal. Un-ducumented in the 7i76D .pdf, so the only signal I'm
actually useing for the spindle stuff on tb4 is the enable as Jons 
servo needs 12 volts for enable. The undocumented pwmgen.0 stuff actually 
controlling
the spindle are on the 7i76D's tb3, but show up in dmesg as:

[485180.220310] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 008 (P3-05): PWMGen #0, pin Out1 
(Dir or Down) (Output)
[485180.220317] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 009 (P3-06): PWMGen #0, pin Out0 
(PWM or Up) (Output)

Which is NOT where they actually are on the 7i76D!

with 4 terminals on the 7i76D tb3 as theres both true and complement 
available there.  Nice.

I wish the interface box I built for the GO704 had room for a 2nd 7i76D
but it doesn't so I've had to cobble up a pair of comp's to get the sigs
for inA and inB of this olimex board. About the size of an airmail stamp,
its a 40 volt, 30 amp H bridge. Should run a 4 amp 24 volt motor just fine.

So yes, I'm carving new ground here. :) I'll start later today by removing 
the p2 cable and giving its connectors a fresh squeeze in the vise. It won't 
be the first time a 26 pin IDC ribbon cable connector has failed in the 
middle of the connector. It seems like the life of those is about 3 years.
And that cable is about 3 years old now.

Actually has a higher failure rate than the 40 pin version here at the
Heskett Holdings, but there's no 40 pinner's left now, the drives have all
expired.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Fanuc 0M setup

[andrew beck]

Sorry about the spelling!  My phone Autocorrect keyboard made a mess

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 9:42 PM andrew beck  wrote:

> Hat just saw this.  I'm currently stripping a old fanuc lathe to run
> linuxcnc.  I found that the fanuc servo drives are too hard to with with.
> But to mention so old.  I just buy new Chinese servo motors and drives.
> They are $300 usd for a 2.4kw matching drive and motor.  And really high
> quality.
>
> Also I managed to get my original fanuc velocity amp working with a pot
> and switches I lucked out and it just uses a 0_10v signal and fwd/rev
> switches.  The option is some custom pwm thing.
>
> My lathe is a 1989 model nakurma (Okuma)
>
> Let me know if you want more info..
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 8:43 PM andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 08:32, Roland Jollivet 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Also, if I want to ditch the controller at a later stage, are the Fanuc
>> > servo drives interfaceable to EMC?
>>
>> Some are.
>>
>> Which isn't a very helpful answer, I suppose.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Fanuc 0M setup

[andrew beck]

Hat just saw this.  I'm currently stripping a old fanuc lathe to run
linuxcnc.  I found that the fanuc servo drives are too hard to with with.
But to mention so old.  I just buy new Chinese servo motors and drives.
They are $300 usd for a 2.4kw matching drive and motor.  And really high
quality.

Also I managed to get my original fanuc velocity amp working with a pot and
switches I lucked out and it just uses a 0_10v signal and fwd/rev
switches.  The option is some custom pwm thing.

My lathe is a 1989 model nakurma (Okuma)

Let me know if you want more info..

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 8:43 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 08:32, Roland Jollivet 
> wrote:
>
> > Also, if I want to ditch the controller at a later stage, are the Fanuc
> > servo drives interfaceable to EMC?
>
> Some are.
>
> Which isn't a very helpful answer, I suppose.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Marcus,

> -Original Message-
> From: marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk 
> [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk]
> Sent: October-20-20 12:02 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.
> 
> On 2020-10-19 23:30, John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > I haven't looked into what's available from China other than the
> > Bergerda AC Servos I'm using as a mill spindle and will be using as
> > the South Bend Lathe Lead screw upgrade.
> 
> Can you tell me the model of servo, please. And explain the control
> device?
> That would help me move forward two ongoing projects (one for a
> converted 1500W/2HP mill which has been running LinuxCNC for the last 16
> years with manual control of spindle speed, and another for a 750W/1HP
> lathe I am upgrading from a proprietary CNC control system to LinuxCNC,
> renewing the obsolete electronics and the motors at the same time).
> Thanks. (It's another excuse to postpone work for a few minutes...)
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
I'm totally enamoured with LinuxCNC controlled spindle speed.  Can't wait to 
finish building the spindle encoder part so I can try power tapping.

I'm still amazed at the difference in size.  This is the original motor, 2HP 
(1.5kW), 220VAC single phase, 1725 RPM.  Required an intermediate 4 step pulley 
and 4 step pulleys on spindle and motor.  And pretty loud.
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/MillDriveSection.jpg

This is the replacement AC Servo.  110SM-M0630MAL with companion drive.  1.8KW, 
3000 RPM, 6Nm rated torque, 18Nm peak torque, Peak Current 18A and 2500 line 
encoder.  Runs very quietly.
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/NewPulleys-1.jpg   

I could barely lift the 2HP motor off the top.  This one is quite light.  Now 
to be honest I haven't used it at anywhere near full power but I did do some 
engraving at 3000 RPM.  I'm using PWM from the MESA 7i92H and a far east PWM to 
0-10V module.  With PWM, 100RPM to 3000 RPM.  Can't do much less because the 
PWM module can't do it.

I do plan on changing to step/dir control with a separate enable so I can turn 
the spindle by hand.

I had some issues with it decelerating really fast and then vibrating when 
stopped. If I tugged on the spindle I could get it to stop or restart 
vibrating.  A quick email request to Donald at Bergerda in China and he talked 
to his engineers.  Came back with some parameter changes and the issues went 
away.  We also worked out better values for decelerating a bit more slowly.

Here's the motor sheet
http://en.bergerda.com/product/608.html

And the drives with a table to match to the motor. 
http://en.bergerda.com/product/609.html

Overall I found both the big one and a smaller 400W motor easy to work with.  
Still not entirely happy with the RS485 link.  When the motor is disabled I had 
no trouble using their PC program for configuring it.  With the motor enabled 
the electrical noise was enough to damage messages.

But the truth is after the initial playing around I use the front panel and 
buttons and the user manual to set/save parameters.  It's pretty easy and fast 
once you understand some of their terms for things.

And Donald Chen has been very helpful.  I do plan on buying some more to 
replace the stepper on the Lathe Z axis and the knee stepper motor on the mill. 
 Not sure how big a motor I'll need for the knee.  Currently a 1200oz-in 
stepper run with a Gecko and 65VDC power supply.  Max I get on knee going up is 
25 ipm and that's pushing it.

John
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Fanuc 0M setup

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 08:32, Roland Jollivet  wrote:

> Also, if I want to ditch the controller at a later stage, are the Fanuc
> servo drives interfaceable to EMC?

Some are.

Which isn't a very helpful answer, I suppose.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] trying to trace a missing pwm signal

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 04:15, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> I am currently setup to use a 2nd  pwmgen in a 5i25, which should come
> out on the bob plugged onto p2 at pin 5 dir as dir, and pin 6 for the
> pwm.

Only if your firmware has that pwmgen. Which firmware is the 5i25 flashed with?

The dmesg output should tell you what you have. (or stdio if using preempt-rt)

How many pwmgens are enabled in the loadrt hm2_pci line?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread, has this been deprecated when mesa cards are used?

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 04:31, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> My first ever config use sw steppers, has those addf's. But no config in
> the last 4 or so years has it.

You still need it if using software pwmgen.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] OT: Fanuc 0M setup

[Roland Jollivet]

Thanks Todd

Is there an easy way for me to check on the console if the ladder is
editable, as is?

Also, if I want to ditch the controller at a later stage, are the Fanuc
servo drives interfaceable to EMC?

Regards
Roland

On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 15:42, Todd Zuercher  wrote:

> If your Fanuc machine came with PLC editing installed and enabled, then
> doing that part will be relatively simple.  (All of the Fanuc machines I'm
> currently working with have).  But that doesn't mean that yours does.  We
> have Fanuc machines from 3 different manufactures all built around the same
> time period (2001-2006) and they all have different Ladder editing
> packages.  Some I have to look at and edit the ladder through the control's
> user interface, others require a separate ladder editing program (that did
> come installed on the machine.)  The trickier part might be finding unused
> IO points to physically connect to the control.  if there are unused io
> pins available, it might not be much more than adding wires to un used pins
> on plugs.  But it could get expensive if new io modules need to be added to
> the control.
>
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Roland Jollivet 
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:45 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> Subject: [Emc-users] OT: Fanuc 0M setup
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
>
> Hi All
>
> I'm looking at getting a small VMC that has a Fanuc 0M controller on it.
>
> Much to my chagrin, I found out that there is no I/O on the machine. (for
> fixtures, probes etc.)  I was expecting a Harting plug on the side.
> So any functionality has to be 'enabled' and hardware added and brought
> out to a plug.
>
> So the hardware side is easy enough, to add a few relays, but then this
> functionality still has to be enabled in the controllers ladder logic.
>
> So does anyone know if this is easy to do? Maybe just a password and do it
> from the user keypad?
> Or does one need special cables and codes for a secret society?
>
> Roland
>
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Re: [Emc-users] driver for a DC motor for a BS-1.

[marcus . bowman]

On 2020-10-19 23:30, John Dammeyer wrote:


I haven't looked into what's available from China other than the
Bergerda AC Servos I'm using as a mill spindle and will be using as
the South Bend Lathe Lead screw upgrade.


Can you tell me the model of servo, please. And explain the control 
device?
That would help me move forward two ongoing projects (one for a 
converted 1500W/2HP mill which has been running LinuxCNC for the last 16 
years with manual control of spindle speed, and another for a 750W/1HP 
lathe I am upgrading from a proprietary CNC control system to LinuxCNC, 
renewing the obsolete electronics and the motors at the same time).

Thanks. (It's another excuse to postpone work for a few minutes...)

Marcus



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