Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Oh yes ... and to not disturb the policemen any more I asked for my forum 
account to be deleted (which thankfully was done) and unsubscribe from the 
lists. Let the policemen guide your steps, the community will definitly prosper!

Nik

Anno domini 2021 Sat, 17 Jul 22:43:30 -0600
 R C scripsit:
> Oh come on, don't be so negative, this CoC thing is not really a bad 
> thing,  that is what I think by now ..   it is starting to look like it 
> is working after a few weeks.
> 
> 
> I have been included in some "spin of's" from threads that die out on 
> the list itself, or didn't even make it there, and some EMC users 
> amongst themselves keep chatting outside the list, in sort of a EMC sub 
> CC-list, directly.
> 
> 
> Maybe that is just the noise the CoC wants to get rid of to begin with, 
> right?  who wants that?  right? the general 
> CNC/maching/tips/ovrbearing-help  I even was included in a few threads 
> in EMC topics, I didn't even see on the mailing list. as in "hey did you 
> see this?"  "check this out",   etc...
> 
> That is a good thing,  that way no one gets offended by seeing a mailing 
> list topic they didn't expect,  without a trigger warning,  or sees 
> unexpected CNC topics they are not interested in. It is really cool to 
> see how considerate a bunch of people have become in no time,  by not to 
> just include everybody on new cool stuff for no apparent reason.
> 
> I think it's a good thing, it looks it is very considerate, that some 
> responsible list members send email to others with subjects starting 
> with "[Emc-user]" (see it?) first  than actual immediately to 
> [Emc-users] list,  that way no one gets offende or so by unexpected 
> Linux-CNC topics. etc ...
> 
> 
> I think this CoC thing might actually really be on to something,   
> something more.. "refined" more considerate,  more thoughtful ...   ... 
> something I never thought of really ...     like, for example, one 
> should not just include everyone, in some CNC or linuxcnc topic,  
> blattantently assuming they might like it. Since this is a technical, 
> CNC, linuxcnc group,  one should be aware that not everyone in the 
> "linuxcnc" mailing list is interested in every linuxcnc topic...   that 
> would be assumptious, offensive and wrong.   keep it up guys,   I think 
> it is great and really going somewhere!!
> 
> 
> Ron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So yeah   *lolo*   god job
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/17/21 9:31 PM, Scott Harwell via Emc-users wrote:
> >   I prefer the term "Special" to stupid.
> >
> > I'm not "Special" enough to believe that the "COC" will help anything or 
> > anyone.
> > Scott
> >
> >  On Saturday, July 17, 2021, 1:05:37 PM CDT, Chris Albertson 
> >  wrote:
> >   
> >   Yes, I just stumbled on this too.  What pointless junk.  Whoever maintains
> > a list can have whatever rules he likes.  Mostly the rules are "don't be
> > stupid"  Then some guy complains "But I LIKE being stupid." and others seem
> > to agree.  Can't they all find a back channel to argue on?
> >
> > Block the topic on your mail reader, and you will never see it again.  (If
> > your mail reader can't block topics and senders, get a different mail
> > reader.)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 10:31 AM Stuart Stevenson  wrote:
> >
> >> WOW - I missed it all!
> >>
> >> My wife and I left 24 Jun 2021 and returned 07 Jul 2021. I didn't check
> >> emails until we returned.
> >>
> >> Seems to me a lot of people confuse the right to comment with the
> >> obligation to comment.
> >>
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Most likely not. The pro-CoC would first have to prove that the CoC is not 
doing any harm - which is kind of impossible, 'cause it has already caused 
harm. 

Then - as there is no formal leadership - who may vote? Not to stress the fact 
that "somebody" already has forced CoC on others and this thead is the reaction 
of that attitude.

BTW, this is going exactly the way CoC agenda works - and that's also the 
reason to keep it out.

Nik

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 13 Jul 11:50:38 +0100
 Peter Hodgson scripsit:
> Is it possible to solve this democratically with a vote using something like 
> Survey Monkey?
> 
> Would those passionately for and against accept a democratic decision?
> 
> It seems that the fear both for and against supporters of the CofC have of 
> it’s use (or not) damaging the community is being far outweighed by the level 
> of damage being done by this argument.
> 
> Can we solve it with a majority decision from the group and move on?
> 
> 
> > On 13 Jul 2021, at 11:36, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp  wrote:
> > 
> > Anno domini 2021 Tue, 13 Jul 11:03:58 +0100
> > andy pugh scripsit:
> >>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 09:55, Mark  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Bullshit.  It's a sign that someone(s) wants to create political
> >>> division and strife
> >> 
> >> No, I think that we can be 100% sure that that was never Jeff's intention.
> >> 
> > 
> > Well, then why not just remove that abomination and call it a day?
> > 
> > Nik
> > 
> > -- 
> > Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing 
> > with the NSA, CIA ...
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
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> 



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 13 Jul 11:03:58 +0100
 andy pugh scripsit:
> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 09:55, Mark  wrote:
> 
> > Bullshit.  It's a sign that someone(s) wants to create political
> > division and strife
> 
> No, I think that we can be 100% sure that that was never Jeff's intention.
> 

Well, then why not just remove that abomination and call it a day?

Nik

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

So forcing CoC on all others is mature behaviour, isn't it?

Nik

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 12 Jul 22:12:51 +0100
 Les Newell scripsit:
> As I pointed out before the list admins have had the power to ban users 
> for a very long time. You agreed to that when you signed up. They have 
> of course used their fascist dictator powers to ... maybe ban a few 
> spammers. Oh the injustice!
> 
> If anyone here has abused their power it's you. You got upset so just to 
> spite everyone you pulled your remaster, hurting the users of that 
> remaster when they had nothing to do with this. I may expect that 
> behaviour from a child but I assume you are an adult.
> 
> Les
> 
> 
> On 12/07/2021 21:39, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Please stop mailing me in private.
> >
> > Mailinglist CoC is not in the code nor in the forum. If the list starts to 
> > get "funny" just change the provider. If the forum get "strange", change 
> > it. Sourceforge had it's share of lost userbase when they tried 
> > monetarizing the community - didn't turn out well for them. Now you put CoC 
> > into the code - that's embarrasing.
> >
> > May it have occured to you that there have already been users leaving 
> > because CoC? No? E.g. BeagleBrainz from the forum? I'm sure you had real 
> > problems with that person in the last decade. Thanks to CoC that problem is 
> > gone.
> >
> > And where did I say I leave? I pulled the plug from my linuxcnc remaster. 
> > As I said, forcing politics on a technical project is a no-go for me, so 
> > the reamaster is gone. But I also said, I'm sure some of the excelent 
> > policemen will make a perfect remaster, I'm 100% sure. Or why else are they 
> > called "the police - your friend and helper"? Put that on the "well done 
> > CoC" list, too.
> >
> > But you are free to ban me from the list and/or the forum. Just do it - now 
> > that you have CoC it's the perfect time to make an example. You can always 
> > say "oh look, we never had problems with this guy before, but thanks to CoC 
> > he showed us his real nature.  And thanks to CoC we can ban him 
> > proactively, at last! What a great achievement! Praise CoC!"
> >
> > I would just appreciate if you could do it in public.
> >
> > Nik
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Please stop mailing me in private.

Mailinglist CoC is not in the code nor in the forum. If the list starts to get 
"funny" just change the provider. If the forum get "strange", change it. 
Sourceforge had it's share of lost userbase when they tried monetarizing the 
community - didn't turn out well for them. Now you put CoC into the code - 
that's embarrasing.

May it have occured to you that there have already been users leaving because 
CoC? No? E.g. BeagleBrainz from the forum? I'm sure you had real problems with 
that person in the last decade. Thanks to CoC that problem is gone.

And where did I say I leave? I pulled the plug from my linuxcnc remaster. As I 
said, forcing politics on a technical project is a no-go for me, so the 
reamaster is gone. But I also said, I'm sure some of the excelent policemen 
will make a perfect remaster, I'm 100% sure. Or why else are they called "the 
police - your friend and helper"? Put that on the "well done CoC" list, too. 

But you are free to ban me from the list and/or the forum. Just do it - now 
that you have CoC it's the perfect time to make an example. You can always say 
"oh look, we never had problems with this guy before, but thanks to CoC he 
showed us his real nature.  And thanks to CoC we can ban him proactively, at 
last! What a great achievement! Praise CoC!"

I would just appreciate if you could do it in public.

Nik

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 12 Jul 21:42:29 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> Did you read Les's message?
> I replay it here for your convenience:
> 
> "You do know you agreed to a much more restrictive CoC when you joined
> this mailing list, don't you? Here is the full agreement:
> <https://slashdotmedia.com/terms-of-use>
> This is linked from the EMC-users subscription form <
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/emc/lists/emc-users>
> 
> If you agreed to that, why are you so stressed about the one Jeff 
> proposed? If you don't agree you'd best unsubscribe quickly before it
> upsets you."
> 
> However, I see that you are still here after saying that you would
> leave, so my suspicion has become certainty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 20:23 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > That's exactly why policemen and theit CoC are unbearable. 
> > 
> > Nik
> > 
> > Anno domini 2021 Mon, 12 Jul 20:14:42 +0200
> >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > Since you are unable to accept such a mild restrictive form, I
> > > think I suspect what kind of person you are, so I'm glad you're
> > > leaving.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 19:36 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > Well, dear friends, as the CoC policemen with their CoC are more
> > > > important than any thing I decided to pull the plug and took my
> > > > remasters offline. You can read more about it here: 
> > > > https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/40260-iso-to-test-exegnulinux-remasterd-with-linuxcnc-a-lots-of-tools-and-no-systemd
> > > > 
> > > > I can only suggest for all contributors (how minor their effort
> > > > may
> > > > be) not in line with forcing a political agenda onto a technical
> > > > project to do the same.
> > > > 
> > > > Nik
> > > > 
> > > > Anno domini 2021 Mon, 12 Jul 18:15:12 +0100
> > > >  Les Newell scripsit:
> > > > > You do know you agreed to a much more restrictive CoC when you
> > > > > joined 
> > > > > this mailing list, don't you? Here is the full agreement:
> > > > > <https://slashdotmedia.com/terms-of-use>
> > > > > This is linked from the EMC-users subscription form 
> > > > > <https://sourceforge.net/projects/emc/lists/emc-users>
> > > > > 
> > > > > If you agreed to that, why are you so stressed about the one
> > > > > Jeff 
> > > > > proposed? If you don't agree you'd best unsubscribe quickly
> > > > > before
> > > > > it 
> > > > > upsets you.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Les
> > > > > 
> > > > > On 12/07/2021 09:03, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > > > You don't realise that forcing CoC on others is exactly
> > > > > > what's
> > > > > > the problem with CoC. Just drop that fing CoC nonsens and
> > > > > > everythings going to be civilized again. But I see, this
> > > > > > won't
> > > > > > happen. That's the whole point of forcing CoC: faschism.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Nik
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

That's exactly why policemen and theit CoC are unbearable. 

Nik

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 12 Jul 20:14:42 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> Since you are unable to accept such a mild restrictive form, I think I 
> suspect what kind of person you are, so I'm glad you're leaving.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 19:36 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Well, dear friends, as the CoC policemen with their CoC are more
> > important than any thing I decided to pull the plug and took my
> > remasters offline. You can read more about it here: 
> > https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/40260-iso-to-test-exegnulinux-remasterd-with-linuxcnc-a-lots-of-tools-and-no-systemd
> > 
> > I can only suggest for all contributors (how minor their effort may
> > be) not in line with forcing a political agenda onto a technical
> > project to do the same.
> > 
> > Nik
> > 
> > Anno domini 2021 Mon, 12 Jul 18:15:12 +0100
> >  Les Newell scripsit:
> > > You do know you agreed to a much more restrictive CoC when you
> > > joined 
> > > this mailing list, don't you? Here is the full agreement:
> > > <https://slashdotmedia.com/terms-of-use>
> > > This is linked from the EMC-users subscription form 
> > > <https://sourceforge.net/projects/emc/lists/emc-users>
> > > 
> > > If you agreed to that, why are you so stressed about the one Jeff 
> > > proposed? If you don't agree you'd best unsubscribe quickly before
> > > it 
> > > upsets you.
> > > 
> > > Les
> > > 
> > > On 12/07/2021 09:03, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > You don't realise that forcing CoC on others is exactly what's
> > > > the problem with CoC. Just drop that fing CoC nonsens and
> > > > everythings going to be civilized again. But I see, this won't
> > > > happen. That's the whole point of forcing CoC: faschism.
> > > > 
> > > > Nik
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Well, dear friends, as the CoC policemen with their CoC are more important than 
any thing I decided to pull the plug and took my remasters offline. You can 
read more about it here: 
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/40260-iso-to-test-exegnulinux-remasterd-with-linuxcnc-a-lots-of-tools-and-no-systemd

I can only suggest for all contributors (how minor their effort may be) not in 
line with forcing a political agenda onto a technical project to do the same.

Nik

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 12 Jul 18:15:12 +0100
 Les Newell scripsit:
> You do know you agreed to a much more restrictive CoC when you joined 
> this mailing list, don't you? Here is the full agreement:
> <https://slashdotmedia.com/terms-of-use>
> This is linked from the EMC-users subscription form 
> <https://sourceforge.net/projects/emc/lists/emc-users>
> 
> If you agreed to that, why are you so stressed about the one Jeff 
> proposed? If you don't agree you'd best unsubscribe quickly before it 
> upsets you.
> 
> Les
> 
> On 12/07/2021 09:03, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> >
> > You don't realise that forcing CoC on others is exactly what's the problem 
> > with CoC. Just drop that fing CoC nonsens and everythings going to be 
> > civilized again. But I see, this won't happen. That's the whole point of 
> > forcing CoC: faschism.
> >
> > Nik
> >
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 12 Jul 09:23:15 +0200
 jeanfrancois scripsit:
> Hi,
> 
> Can we end this topic please ?


Can we remove CoC? No? So why end this debate?

Nik

> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Jean-François
> 
> Le 12/07/2021 à 09:19, Valerio Bellizzomi a écrit :
> > Your trollish behavior is exactly what a CoC is sensed to eradicate
> > from professional communities.
> > Tha's why you exercise such violent opposition.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 01:12 -0600, R C wrote:
> >> because you don't have a point. Other than the Mussolini one.
> >>
> >> On 7/12/21 1:08 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> >>> I don't really want to talk with a troll like you.
> >>>
> >>> Communication terminated.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 00:10 -0600, R C wrote:
>  On 7/11/21 11:45 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > Nobody stops you,
>  exactly my point, that's your non-existent necessity
> 
> 
> > however your project will not gain much professional
> > attraction.
>  oh really? you're that clairvoyant? "professional attraction" ??
>  Haha!!   progress was never accomplished by those that played by
>  the
>  rules...   that's why it's called progress  aka rebellion ..  you
>  have
>  to ignore the establishment ..   the ones that want you to behave
>  under
>  their control ...  as is done/attempted with CoC's...   'nothing'
>  will
>  ever be accomplished by CoC's other than a futile attempt to
>  safeguard
>  established thinking, or cover your ass for legal
>  reasons..   CoC's
>  live
>  in a world where nothing new is allowed.
> 
> > On Sun, 2021-07-11 at 22:55 -0600, R C wrote:
> >> No it isn't,
> >>
> >>
> >> I can start a open source project tomorrow (not today, cause
> >> it
> >> is
> >> getting late), and not have a CoC, and who is going to stop
> >> me,
> >> if
> >> it
> >> doesn't have a CoC?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/11/21 10:46 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> >>> Every open source project on Github.com and Sourceforge has
> >>> a
> >>> Code
> >>> of
> >>> Conduct, this is a necessary part of every public project.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 14:06 +0930, dva...@internode.on.net
> >>> wrote:
>   
> 
>  Valerio wrote: >>
>   So it be. Andy, my apologies for trying to support
>  the
>  adoption
>  of a
>   CoC, either the one proposed by Jeff or that of W3C
>  as I
>  proposed.
>   Evidently the idea of being an organized community
>  doesn't
>  appeal to
>   LinuxCNC users. I don't understand why there is so
>  much
>  opposition,
>   after all it is assumed that an organized community
>  is
>  able to
>  work
>   better and with more personal satisfaction for all
>  the
>  participants,
>   and instead in this case a terrible conflict has
>  broken
>  out.
> 
> 
>  ___
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>  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >> ___
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> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
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> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 12 Jul 09:19:13 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> Your trollish behavior is exactly what a CoC is sensed to eradicate
> from professional communities.
> Tha's why you exercise such violent opposition.


You don't realise that forcing CoC on others is exactly what's the problem with 
CoC. Just drop that fing CoC nonsens and everythings going to be civilized 
again. But I see, this won't happen. That's the whole point of forcing CoC: 
faschism.

Nik


> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 01:12 -0600, R C wrote:
> > because you don't have a point. Other than the Mussolini one.
> > 
> > On 7/12/21 1:08 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > I don't really want to talk with a troll like you.
> > > 
> > > Communication terminated.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 00:10 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > > On 7/11/21 11:45 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > Nobody stops you,
> > > > exactly my point, that's your non-existent necessity
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > >however your project will not gain much professional
> > > > > attraction.
> > > > oh really? you're that clairvoyant? "professional attraction" ??
> > > > Haha!!   progress was never accomplished by those that played by
> > > > the
> > > > rules...   that's why it's called progress  aka rebellion ..  you
> > > > have
> > > > to ignore the establishment ..   the ones that want you to behave
> > > > under
> > > > their control ...  as is done/attempted with CoC's...   'nothing'
> > > > will
> > > > ever be accomplished by CoC's other than a futile attempt to
> > > > safeguard
> > > > established thinking, or cover your ass for legal
> > > > reasons..   CoC's
> > > > live
> > > > in a world where nothing new is allowed.
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Sun, 2021-07-11 at 22:55 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > > > > No it isn't,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I can start a open source project tomorrow (not today, cause
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > getting late), and not have a CoC, and who is going to stop
> > > > > > me,
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > doesn't have a CoC?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On 7/11/21 10:46 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > > > Every open source project on Github.com and Sourceforge has
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > Code
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > Conduct, this is a necessary part of every public project.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Mon, 2021-07-12 at 14:06 +0930, dva...@internode.on.net
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Valerio wrote: >>
> > > > > > > > So it be. Andy, my apologies for trying to support
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > adoption
> > > > > > > > of a
> > > > > > > > CoC, either the one proposed by Jeff or that of W3C
> > > > > > > > as I
> > > > > > > > proposed.
> > > > > > > > Evidently the idea of being an organized community
> > > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > appeal to
> > > > > > > > LinuxCNC users. I don't understand why there is so
> > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > opposition,
> > > > > > > > after all it is assumed that an organized community
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > able to
> > > > > > > > work
> > > > > > > > better and with more personal satisfaction for all
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > participants,
> > > > > > > > and instead in this case a terrible conflict has
> > > > > > > > broken
> > > > > > > > out.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > ___
> > > > > > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > > > > > ___
> > > > > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > > > > ___
> > > > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > 
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:56:38 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> it's true, never talk to detractors, they bring you to their level and
> beat you for experience.

So pointing out that a CoC is pointless unless you have an agenda you want to 
force onto others - which by the way you proved to be the reason for the CoC in 
your forum - is distraction? Interesting. Makes me wonder why you have still 
not said what that CoC sould be good for.

Nik


> 
> 
> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:52 +, Scott Harwell via Emc-users wrote:
> >  I hate to point this out, but this response appears to be a
> > violation of the CoC.
> > Scott(still working on the smiley face thing)
> > 
> > On Wednesday, June 30, 2021, 10:42:15 AM CDT, Valerio Bellizzomi
> >  wrote:  
> >  
> >  On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 17:30 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:21:08 +0200
> > >   Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 16:14 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
> > > > >   Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> > > > > > >   Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > > > > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the
> > > > > > > > > necessity
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > having a
> > > > > > > > > code
> > > > > > > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > >   Mark
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > seems
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is
> > > > > > > > concerned
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a
> > > > > > > > necessary
> > > > > > > > thing
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > an organization to be successful in the long term and
> > > > > > > > vis-
> > > > > > > > a-vis 
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might
> > > > > > > > interact.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop
> > > > > > > it.
> > > > > > > CoC
> > > > > > > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since
> > > > > > you do
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > and will never be part of my organization.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation
> > > > > will
> > > > > not be forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or
> > > > > whatever you might call it)? Because it is, then there's an
> > > > > agenda we
> > > > > should talk about in public.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Nik
> > > > 
> > > > 1) 
> > > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/72-official-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct
> > > > 
> > > > 2) 
> > > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
> > > > 
> > > > 3) 
> > > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/185-why-choose-selroc-systems
> > > 
> > > So your forum has 139 postings in total, but several pages CoC. Of
> > > course the CoC did attract a lot of people to participate, didn't
> > > it?
> > > 
> > > Nik
> > 
> > You can't understand what you read, that defect is called functional
> > illiteracy.
> > 
> > 
> > On 
> > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
> >  :
> > 
> > "This is sensed to be a small professional quality forum. The posts
> > written here should always follow the rules written here 
> > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/gen...sional-conduct";
> > 
> > 
> > i.e. This means I admit to the forum only people I know and trust.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >   
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:40:09 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 17:30 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:21:08 +0200
> >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 16:14 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
> > > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> > > > > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > > > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > having a
> > > > > > > > code
> > > > > > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > >  Mark
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > seems
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a
> > > > > > > necessary
> > > > > > > thing
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-
> > > > > > > a-vis 
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might
> > > > > > > interact.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop
> > > > > > it.
> > > > > > CoC
> > > > > > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since
> > > > > you do
> > > > > not
> > > > > and will never be part of my organization.
> > > > 
> > > > Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation
> > > > will
> > > > not be forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or
> > > > whatever you might call it)? Because it is, then there's an
> > > > agenda we
> > > > should talk about in public.
> > > > 
> > > > Nik
> > > 
> > > 1) 
> > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/72-official-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct
> > > 
> > > 2) 
> > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
> > > 
> > > 3) 
> > > https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/185-why-choose-selroc-systems
> > 
> > So your forum has 139 postings in total, but several pages CoC. Of
> > course the CoC did attract a lot of people to participate, didn't it?
> > 
> > Nik
> 
> 
> You can't understand what you read, that defect is called functional
> illiteracy.
> 
> 
> On 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
>  :
> 
> "This is sensed to be a small professional quality forum. The posts
> written here should always follow the rules written here 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/gen...sional-conduct";
> 
> 
> i.e. This means I admit to the forum only people I know and trust.

So you want to do the same on the linuxcnc forum and mailinglist?


> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 17:21:08 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 16:14 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
> >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> > > >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of
> > > > > > having a
> > > > > > code
> > > > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >  Mark
> > > > > 
> > > > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it
> > > > > seems
> > > > > to
> > > > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned
> > > > > about
> > > > > being
> > > > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary
> > > > > thing
> > > > > for
> > > > > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis 
> > > > > of
> > > > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
> > > > 
> > > > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop it.
> > > > CoC
> > > > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> > > 
> > > It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> > > 
> > > I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since you do
> > > not
> > > and will never be part of my organization.
> > 
> > Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation will
> > not be forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or
> > whatever you might call it)? Because it is, then there's an agenda we
> > should talk about in public.
> > 
> > Nik
> 
> 
> 1) 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/72-official-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct
> 
> 2) 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/246-the-quality-of-this-forum
> 
> 3) 
> https://www.selroc.systems/forum/general-information/questions-and-answers/185-why-choose-selroc-systems

So your forum has 139 postings in total, but several pages CoC. Of course the 
CoC did attract a lot of people to participate, didn't it?

Nik

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 16:04:47 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 15:46 +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
> >  Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> > > On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > > > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of
> > > > having a
> > > > code
> > > > of conduct for this list.
> > > > 
> > > >  Mark
> > > 
> > > In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems
> > > to
> > > be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about
> > > being
> > > controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing
> > > for
> > > an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
> > > bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.
> > 
> > If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop it. CoC
> > either has an agenda or it is better droped.
> 
> It is my organization and I do what I want here. Thank you.
> 
> I wonder with what right you allow yourself to comment since you do not
> and will never be part of my organization.

Oh cool. Then can I assume the CoC nonsens of your organisation will not be 
forced on this organisation (or mailinglist or forum or whatever you might call 
it)? Because it is, then there's an agenda we should talk about in public.

Nik



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 15:41:13 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 09:29 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > We still have not heard any reason(s) as to the necessity of having a
> > code
> > of conduct for this list.
> > 
> >  Mark
> 
> In my organization I have established codes of conduct and it seems to
> be a winning choice for everybody, no one here is concerned about being
> controlled or enforced, they know that codes are a necessary thing for
> an organization to be successful in the long term and vis-a-vis of
> bigger and broader organizations with which we might interact.

If you do not want to control or enforce it, then just drop it. CoC either has 
an agenda or it is better droped.

Nik

> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 08:23:49 -0500
 Jeff Epler scripsit:
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 03:28:11PM -0700, David Bagby wrote:
> > As far as I know, a CoC for LinuxCNC was NOT "created, reviewed and accepted
> > by community members".  It was just simply announced as a fait accomli.
> > 
> > Thus it should not be a surprise that there is was no consensus re its
> > contents within the community, or that there appears to be little to zero
> > by-in from the members of the community.  It's natural for people see
> > question anything that suddenly get imposed on them.
> 
> It's 100% accurate that there I did not initiate discussion on this
> mailing lists of the code of conduct itself.
> 
> I did initiate discussion in these ways:
> 
>  - Publicly by creating a Pull Request on github with the full proposed text
>https://github.com/LinuxCNC/wlo/pull/14
> 
>  - Publicly on the IRC channel #emc-developers by linking to the pull request
> 
>  - Privately with several of the people who act as moderators of our
>various ways of communicating, such as IRC and Matrix
> 
> No public comment was made on the pull request, which was open for about
> a week.  The reaction on IRC ranged from agreement to disinterest.
> 
> Several community members articulated in this thread why the item
> against "excessive helping" was undesirable. That item has been removed.
> Thank you to those who participated in that portion of this discussion.

Putting a political tentacle somewhere in a technical code repository is the 
correct way to handle this, for sure.

Nik

> 
> Jeff
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 12:31:54 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> On Wed, 2021-06-30 at 11:21 +0100, Les Newell wrote:
> > > And that's the key point Les.  There was no prior discussion.  As
> > > was 
> > > pointed out in another post, this CoC was created and implemented
> > > with 
> > > no input from the group at large. 
> > 
> > Um, I don't know if you noticed but we are having that discussion
> > right 
> > now. The CoC is not set in stone. It's just text that can be easily 
> > edited.  Jeff introduced it. At that point there should have been
> > some 
> > rational discussion and any corrections made as needed. Instead
> > there 
> > was a completely unwarranted explosion of vitriol and paranoia. Jeff
> > the 
> > dictator is impinging on our FREEDOM! The CoC boils down to 'be nice
> > and 
> > treat people with respect'. Really, you are upset because you don't
> > want 
> > to be nice and others to be respectful to you? Even if you are,
> > what's 
> > wrong with just asking for a change to the text instead of shouting 
> > about THE ESTABLISHMENT trying to CONTROL you. This are just a group
> > of 
> > like minded individuals, not some oppressive government.
> > 
> > Could Jeff have worded his announcement better? In hindsight yes but 
> > remember the only way anything gets done around here is if someone 
> > volunteers to do it. How many of the people here screaming about
> > their 
> > rights have actually bothered to contribute to maintenance of the
> > source 
> > code and the website? If you don't like something how about fixing
> > it, 
> > rather than getting upset?
> > 
> > Les
> 
> 
> This is talking! this is constructive discussion, thank you, I
> appreciate the good will to discuss and overcome prejudices, thinking
> that there is "the establishment trying to control you" sounds a good
> bit like conspiracy theory.
> 

Tell me what's constructive about that? Somebody (minority) want to implement 
CoC for everybody, everybody else (majority) don't care or fight it. Your 
"constructive" aproach is: force CoC anyway, how diminishing it might be, but 
force it on everyone. Later "we" can change CoC to fit our needs. 

And you are really surprised that this discussion is becomming a bit tense?

Nik



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Wed, 30 Jun 05:01:18 -0400
 Mark scripsit:
> 
> On 6/29/21 4:57 PM, Les Newell wrote:
> > Valerio, I agree completely. I also think we should give Jeff a break 
> > here. LinuxCNC is a loosely organized group and things only really get 
> > done when someone sees a problem and tries to fix it. Many open source 
> > projects have a CoC so Jeff put something together, trying to help. He 
> > now pretty much gets accused of being a dictator.  I'm sure that is 
> > far from his intention.
> >
> >> The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
> >> voting of the CoC.
> >
> > Historically when someone comes up with a new feature they announce it 
> > on the list, there is a bit of discussion about it and in most cases 
> > it gets added to the source, possibly with some modification. No name 
> > calling or political posturing. That is probably closer to how Jeff 
> > expected this to go.
> >
> > Les
> 
> 
> And that's the key point Les.  There was no prior discussion.  As was 
> pointed out in another post, this CoC was created and implemented with 
> no input from the group at large.
> 

That's how things with CoC always go: some self-proclaimed policemen force it 
on everybody else and are upset when they face resistance. Usual argument is 
"that's exactly why we need XYZ". Same game everywhere.

Nik

> Mark
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 29 Jun 22:53:12 +0200
 Valerio Bellizzomi scripsit:
> On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 14:32 -0600, R C wrote:
> > On 6/29/21 2:21 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2021-06-29 at 13:42 -0600, R C wrote:
> > > > On 6/29/21 11:09 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > > > The whole purpose of a CoC is telling people how to behave with
> > > > > respect
> > > > > to each other. Basically you are free to think as you will
> > > > > provided
> > > > > that you act as the CoC says.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > 
> > > > and that is why it is inappropriate, and useless, there is no way
> > > > you
> > > > can predict how/what  offends people (and nowadays. Creating
> > > > rules
> > > > for
> > > > what/how/when and to whom what can be said, well, there are
> > > > countries
> > > > where you can happily follow those rules.
> > > 
> > > This is what I think:
> > > 
> > > The point of a CoC is to tell people that the expected behavior is
> > > to
> > > act kindly with respect to each other, and the CoC must foresee and
> > > provide means to resolve any controvercies that may arise, and do
> > > this
> > > kindly as much as possible in order to reestablish the community
> > > aggregation and mutual respect.
> > 
> > right, most normal/decent people know that is expected behavior, so
> > it 
> > is pointless to re-iterate, and mosyly turns into something
> > manipulative.
> > 
> > > I don't understand why there is so much friction on adopting a CoC,
> > > the
> > > vast majority of open source projects around the world has a CoC
> > > which
> > > is created, reviewed and accepted by community members.
> > 
> > Because it is pointless.  There still has not been given an urgent 
> > reason for doing this kinda left-ish thing.
> > 
> > 
> > I make a point of that all the time, also at work, where they have 
> > several of these things.
> > 
> > 
> > Reason?  Oh an upper management person  once said it was needed
> > "because 
> > everyone deserves to be respected, and by the end of the day can go
> > home 
> > being happy they accomplished something"
> > 
> > I questioned him "Why?"  ..  except for a lot of "uh"-s no real
> > answer.  
> > Of course not,  because there are no reasons to do that..  it's 
> > management porn.
> > 
> > 
> > > The only point I can make is that we need a community revision and
> > > voting of the CoC.
> > 
> > why?  seriously, make a pressing point of  why.
> > 
> > 
> > > Regards
> > > 
> > Ron
> 
> 
> I cannot comment on what you do at work. However this is how things
> work in a human society, we need to state very clearly what are the
> leadership actions to do in case controvercies need to be resolved, and
> state what is expected behavior and unacceptable behavior from
> community members, so that everybody knows that staying in the
> community involves some kind of mental and behavioral engagement. This
> is necessary to avoid irrimediable conflicts that can lead to
> destruction of the community.
> 
> I'm happy to see that LinuxCNC community has survived so long without a
> CoC. That said every community needs a CoC mostly as an assurance to
> external people that they can join the community without fear.

Sorry, but this total bs. 

I would suggest that all people voting for CoC make a mailinglist 
"emc-users-...@lists.sourceforge.net" or better 
"coc-ems-us...@lists.sourceforge.net" 'cause  CoC is more important than 
LinuxCNC and users (who need users when we are the management?)

Nik



> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 29 Jun 09:26:19 -0600
 Sebastian Kuzminsky scripsit:
> The Code of Conduct is not about controlling anyone or shoving anything 
> down anyone's throats.  It's about defining inclusive and welcoming 
> community standards for peaceful cooperation and coexistence.
> 
> It's useful to do this explicitly and openly, because that creates a 
> shared standard of communication and interaction that we can all see and 
> agree on.
> 
> Nothing in the Code of Conduct should be surprising to anyone here - it 
> really is all common sense "don't be a jerk" type stuff.
> 
> If it offends you or you think it's "woke babble" that it explicitly 
> mentions don't be a jerk to trans people, or don't be a jerk to people 
> based on their race or religion or whatever, then please take this as a 
> request to leave, and our community will be better off without you.
> 
> Please, let's just all be polite to the people we share this community 
> with, it's not hard.  Let's keep focussing on our shared interest in 
> machining and open source fabrication software, and I look forward to 
> collaborating with you all for many years to come.
> 

If it's common sense, then just drop that CoC and say "plase use common sense" 
... which does not make sense at all, 'cause everybody uses common sense. If 
the CoC is not common sense, then you should drop it 'cause of its agenda. 
Combine both to "just drop CoC". CoC does not make sense at all - only to those 
who deem themself superior.

Nik

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 29 Jun 15:25:51 +0100
 andy pugh scripsit:
> On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 at 15:18, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp  wrote:
> 
> > +1 CoC guarantees nontechnical tentacles grab hold on technical projects. 
> > Nobody needs those "management" types.
> 
> I don't see any real risk of that happening to LinuxCNC. Apart from
> anything else I doubt that anyone non-technical has any interest in
> the project. (This is not the case for a desktop OS, or a graphics
> package, for example)
> 

It's not about the project, it's about power over people. CoC in place is like 
a pile of elefant poop ... some day there will be flies.

Nik



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 29 Jun 23:00:57 +1000
 Robert Murphy scripsit:
> Do you care to point out this..oh hang on I did call someone not
> involved in the project a blight and a bully.
> 
> The current Code of Conduct is being pushed by those with agendas
> outside of OSS Projects. I have heard these agendas referred to as
> "Social Engineering".

+1 CoC guarantees nontechnical tentacles grab hold on technical projects. 
Nobody needs those "management" types. To push it to the extreme, with CoC you 
are not allowed any more to tell these self-proclamed policemen to go where the 
sun never shines.

Nik

> 
> It is agendas like these that led to a Political Party in Australia
> wanting to prosecute doctors for what is best practice regarding Gender
> Dysphoria. Up until that time I had been a supporter or this particular
> party, but when I read of their policy to do that to Doctors when doing
> their job and providing best care I was disgusted.
> 
> "Misgendering" someone, which the list of genders seems to get bigger
> every day, is a crime in some places.
> 
> Then you get people like this;
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Yaniv who hides behind being trans
> to be a social pest. And in effect making life hard for those that are
> truly suffering.
> 
> On 29/6/21 10:10 pm, Les Newell wrote:
> > I find it mildly ironic that the introduction of a code of conduct
> > triggered one of the few posts I've seen on this list that breaks the
> > code of conduct...
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 29 Jun 09:16:19 -0400
 Gene Heskett scripsit:
> 
> > How about we  just adopt the Golden Rule - do unto others as you would
> > have them do unto you. That seems to have worked well for many
> > thousands of years.  Leave the sexual preference bullcrap somewhere
> > else where people wish to discuss that kind of thing.
> >
> > Mark
> 
> + about 10+26

Far too easy. What those "management" flok do then? 

> > ___
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> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett



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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Tue, 29 Jun 09:10:35 +0100
 andy pugh scripsit:
> On Tue, 29 Jun 2021 at 04:14, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> >
> > At the risk of being banned I'd suggest that this one point is a bit 
> > extreme:
> >
> > "Excessive or unwelcome helping; answering outside the scope of the 
> > question asked"
> 
> It does seem a little odd. I suspect it is aimed at some manner of
> behaviour that I have not (knowingly) seen on our forums.
> It is a bit of a concern to think that I could be accused of breaking
> the CoC for being too helpful.
> 
> I get the feeling that this CoC was written for a somewhat different
> demographic than LinuxCNC users tend to be. (By which I am mainly
> referring to age) .
> 

CoC is just a waste of time. 

Nik

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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 13 Jun 09:24:12 -0700
 Rafael Skodlar scripsit:
> On 6/13/21 1:49 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> >>> On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia  
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>   I do have a Rpi3
> >> ...
> >>> I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.
> >>
> >> I wouldn�t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4 Pis have 
> >> the Ethernet in the USB bus.
> > 
> > I've also read that the Pi4 8GB is not ideal for LinuxCNC.  Apparently it 
> > has issues with that much memory on the Pi.  It works best with 4GB 
> > apparently.
> > 
> > John
> 
> Huh? That makes no sense. If nothing else, you can use it for fake swap 
> if nothing else.
> 
> RPi is NOT good for any industrial use. This thing is for kids to learn 
> Linux and open source programming techniques. RaspberryPi PCB design is 
> just bad for industrial use: holes for mounting, using glue for CPU 
> heatsink, connectors positions and their orientation, sandwich style 
> header connector for DIO, silicon waste (for sound and video IO), etc.
> 
> To execute G-code using a large footprint computer makes no sense 
> anymore. This open source based solution is gaining popularity for 
> simple CNC:
> https://openbuildspartstore.com/interface/  and other related HW.

Don't know if GRBL + SBC is better than RPi+GRBL - it's just costs more.


> 
> Just the fact that Openbuilds is not using LinuxCNC is saying something. 
> Dead end: no innovations, limitation in electronics/hardware selection.
> 
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] Kiosk mode

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Thu, 15 Apr 12:27:21 -0400
 Billy Huddleston scripsit:
> Setting up a LinuxCNC box, more or less in a Kiosk mode.  I have it so when 
> it boots up, it loads LinuxCNC (Axis) in FULLSCREEN, not Maximized.  I want 
> to add 2 buttons on the 
> right hand side that lets you reboot & shutdown the system.  I've been told 
> it's not a good idea to simply reboot without exiting LInuxCNC because it 
> needs to write stuff to files 
> before it does.  Can someone provide some insight on best way to accomplish 
> this?
> 
> Close LinuxCNC, then Reboot or Shutdown depending on the button pressed?
> 
> Thanks!

You can do this quite easily with TDE or FVWM as you DE/windowmanager.

Nik


> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] experimental bearings for harmonic drive

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 28 Mar 09:52:53 -0700
 John Dammeyer scripsit:
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > 
> > On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 at 14:50, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > 
> > > This is clear petg, but I simply cannot get it to stick to the glass.
> > 
> > I covered my build plate with one of the sheets of PEI sold for the
> > purpose, and most things stick well.
> > An occasional wipe with an alcohol-soaked rag helps on the occasions
> > when adhesion isn't working.
> > 
> > In fact, PETG has been sticking a bit too well recently.
> 
> A friend has told me he's had PETG stick so well that it breaks off some of 
> the glass build plate.  Seems a bit extreme but that's what he's reported.

I had the very same problem. My solution: I drip som ml alcohole or isoprop on 
the part and plate when the plate is still warm. It creeps between part&plate 
and makes it pop up.

Nik

> 
> John Dammeyer
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] openscad to normal gcode converter?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 22 Mar 00:44:33 -0400
 Gene Heskett scripsit:
> On Sunday 21 March 2021 19:02:25 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> 
> > oops ... typo, see below ...
> [...]
> > Delete "unnamed" "unnamed001" but please keep "unnamed001(solid)" :)
> >
> Magic markered the printed copy, thanks again Nik.

LOL ... i alway put this stuff in a folder and then I search for ages til I 
find the info again :)

Nik

> 
> Take care & stay well.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett



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Re: [Emc-users] openscad to normal gcode converter?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 21 Mar 20:40:40 -0700
 Chris Albertson scripsit:
> [...]
> That said, I can imagine a STEP file that is like an STL with thousands of
> faces and is un-editable.
> 
> So I will reask the question.   "Can OpenSCAD export to a normal editable
> STEP file?", If so then there is a wide range of CAM software
> available even if most is not free.

No, it can't. It's always triangles - lot's of it.

Nik


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Re: [Emc-users] openscad to normal gcode converter?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

oops ... typo, see below ...

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 21 Mar 23:52:06 +0100
 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp scripsit:
> Hi Gene,
> [...]
> @Freecad STL import: this is a bit strange, but it works:
> 
> Create new body
> menu "Import stl"
> --> you get "unnamed" - select that
> select "Part" workbench
> select in menu "Part->create shape from mesh"
> --> you get "unnamed001" - select that.
> select in menu "Part->convert to solid"
> --> you get "unnamed0001(solid)" - select that
> select "Part Design" Workbench
> select menu "Part->Create body"
> --> you get a new body with "Base Feature" beeing the imported stl.
> Now delete all things created earlier but the last body: delete "unnamed" 
> "unnamed001" "unnamed001(solid)" - if you don't get rid of these you cannot 
> modify the imported and coverted stl.

Delete "unnamed" "unnamed001" but please keep "unnamed001(solid)" :)


> 
> A last you can do whatever you like with the object - e.g. add sketches, use 
> the Path workbench ...
> 
> Nik
> 
> > 
> > The latest version of pycam on sourceforge has been converted to 100% 
> > python 3. Buster or later, maybe.  I have 6.3 according to synaptic.
> > 
> > > Nik
> > 
> > Thank you Nik
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] openscad to normal gcode converter?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi Gene,

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 21 Mar 16:30:10 -0400
 Gene Heskett scripsit:
> On Sunday 21 March 2021 13:45:20 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> [...]
> The whole openscad -> export menu is ghosted here. Is that nissing python 
> stuff?
> This is also the latest openscad AppImage.
Hm, just tried the Appimage, but nothing is ghosted on my computer and I can 
export my demo. But I usually use openscad from the devuan repositories.

> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
> > If your Design is 2.5D then you can cut your design in openscad with
> > "projection(cut=true)". 
> 
> I looked that up and its 2d only for the newest Appimage. And what I need
> to do is definitely 3 axis on the mill.
Yes, it creates a 2d dxf. But you can use e.g. CamBam http://cambam.info/ if 
you need pocketing or dxf2gcode to create the toolpaths from the 2d dxf. Well, 
it's a bit strange to create a 3D object, then slice it and recreate it :)

Anyway, this is what I do on easy parts. e.g.:

module demo() {
difference() {
cube([100,100,20],center=true);
translate([0,0,10]) cube([80,80,20],center=true);
for (i=[0,1,2,3]) rotate([0,0,i*90]) translate([44,44,0]) 
cylinder(d=6,h=30,center=true);
}
}
%demo();
projection(cut=true) demo();

Now the exported dxf has all the features to create the toolpath for the part.

> > That will give you a DXF that can be fed into 
> > "dxf2gcode". This works for anything with planes parallel to Z (on a
> > mill), but not for angled surfaces.
> >
> > 3D operation with pycam works, but produces most inefficient
> > toolpaths. I was told that FreeCADs "Path"-Workbench is quite usable,
> > but I have never done a piece on myself.
> 
> But it does not import .stl's here.  Needs a ".step" to load it here.
> And if you want to play and learn somehing about freecad, steps are 
> loaded read-only. You can make parts disappear or reappear but you 
> cannot modify anything else.

@Freecad STL import: this is a bit strange, but it works:

Create new body
menu "Import stl"
--> you get "unnamed" - select that
select "Part" workbench
select in menu "Part->create shape from mesh"
--> you get "unnamed001" - select that.
select in menu "Part->convert to solid"
--> you get "unnamed0001(solid)" - select that
select "Part Design" Workbench
select menu "Part->Create body"
--> you get a new body with "Base Feature" beeing the imported stl.
Now delete all things created earlier but the last body: delete "unnamed" 
"unnamed001" "unnamed001(solid)" - if you don't get rid of these you cannot 
modify the imported and coverted stl.

A last you can do whatever you like with the object - e.g. add sketches, use 
the Path workbench ...

Nik

> 
> The latest version of pycam on sourceforge has been converted to 100% 
> python 3. Buster or later, maybe.  I have 6.3 according to synaptic.
> 
> > Nik
> 
> Thank you Nik
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett



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Re: [Emc-users] openscad to normal gcode converter?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi Gene!

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 21 Mar 13:10:58 -0400
 Gene Heskett scripsit:
> Greetings all;
> 
> What do we have that can convert a .stl file into gcode for a mill or a 
> lathe?
> 
> I think I have the 4 internal pieces ready to install in some sort of a 
> housing, so I ordered a couple hacksaw blades for my bandsaw and bought 
> some 2" thick alu bar for the output side of this thing.
> 
> I have some 1" that will make the input half of the housing, make it up 
> square so I'll have room for corner bolts to mount it with. But with the 
> need for 2 bearings on the output, seperated by enough space to be 
> rigid, I'll do it from 2" stock. But I think I'd like to make 2, one 
> small enough to drive with a nema 17. But I'll need to make a metal 
> armature for that because these 85 oz 17's I have run pretty hot. Too 
> hot for plastic bearing carriers. So far I haven't stumbled over a 3 
> phase nema 17, yet. But I keep looking.
> 
> Now that I have at least a Mr so and so familiarity with openscad, no 
> means an expert, I think I'd like to see about drawing the housing parts 
> up in openscad, and possibly generating some gcode from its .stl output.
> 
> Can pycam do that?
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

If your Design is 2.5D then you can cut your design in openscad with 
"projection(cut=true)". That will give you a DXF that can be fed into 
"dxf2gcode". This works for anything with planes parallel to Z (on a mill), but 
not for angled surfaces.

3D operation with pycam works, but produces most inefficient toolpaths. I was 
told that FreeCADs "Path"-Workbench is quite usable, but I have never done a 
piece on myself.

Nik



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Re: [Emc-users] OpenSCAD help needed

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 15 Mar 16:50:59 -0400
 Gene Heskett scripsit:
> Greetings all;
> 
> I need help in understanding OpenSCAD's version of a variables scope. I 
> can assign an $XX variable at the top of a .scad file but it doesn't get 
> passed into subsequent constructs inside of {} isolated functions's.
> 
> So how is this done in OpenSCAD?
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

I forgot: you should not use "$..." for variable names, only nomal C syntax.

Nik

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Re: [Emc-users] OpenSCAD help needed

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 15 Mar 16:50:59 -0400
 Gene Heskett scripsit:
> Greetings all;
> 
> I need help in understanding OpenSCAD's version of a variables scope. I 
> can assign an $XX variable at the top of a .scad file but it doesn't get 
> passed into subsequent constructs inside of {} isolated functions's.
> 
> So how is this done in OpenSCAD?

Global variables are visible everywhere. e.g.:
$fn=180;
a=10;

Global variables are hidden by module definitions. Variabes in module 
definitions are only visible inside "module":
a=10;
echo(a);
module xxx(a,b) { echo(a); echo(b); }
xxx(99,88);
echo(b);

You can define local variable with "let" - globals are hidden, aso nested "led" 
hide variables:
a=10;
let (a=1, b=88) {
echo(a);
echo (b);
let (a=99) {
echo(a);
}
}
echo(a);
echo(b);

Last note: variables are not variabes, they are "write-once-variables". e.g. 
this will fail on newer versions od openscad, but will succeed on older 
versions (and gixe 2x 99):
a=10;
echo(a);
a=99;
echo(a);



Nik
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett



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Re: [Emc-users] OpenSCAD ?

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Something like so:

$fn=$preview?$fn:180;
h  = 5.25 ;
r1 = ( 73.6/2.00 ) ;
r2 = ( r1 + 2.6000 ) ;
rotate_extrude(angle=123) {
translate([r1,0]) square([r2-r1,h]);
}


Nik

Anno domini 2021 Thu, 4 Mar 10:33:12 -0500
 Gene Heskett scripsit:
> Greetings all you OpenSCAD experts;
> 
> I had no trouble making a ring with this code:
> 
> h  = 5.25 ;
> r1 = ( 73.6/2.00 ) ;
> r2 = ( r1 + 2.6000 ) ;
> difference() {
> cylinder( h , r2 , r2 , $fn = 180 , center = true ) ; 
> cylinder( h , r1 , r1 , $fn = 180 , center = true ) ;
> }
> 
> But how do I generate another 2.5mm radius cylinder but only for the 
> stated degrees, like a half cylinder?
> 
> The tut I'm following doesn't seem to address this.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett



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Re: [Emc-users] To Sam Sokolik re opencv on linux

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Mon, 1 Feb 08:55:43 -0500
 Gene Heskett scripsit:
> On Sunday 31 January 2021 17:48:47 Sam Sokolik wrote:
> 
> > http://electronicsam.com/images/emco/terco/
> >
> Got it, thanks Sam.
> 
> > Now - iirc the capture python script is copied to usr/bin/ and made
> > executable..
> >
> > It looks like I used opencv-2.4.9  (again - it was over 6 years ago)
> 
> [...]
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

Thank you from me, too.

OpenCV 2 is still working, but I've got some performance problems when the 
image has more than 10 circular objects.

Nik



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Re: [Emc-users] Making L Type Timing pulleys.

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sun, 27 Dec 19:46:34 -0800
 John Dammeyer scripsit:
> I think it depends on the plastic.  A year or so ago we tried a bunch of 
> different materials for an iPhone holder belt clip.  No luck.  The plastic 
> wasn't as strong as the original injection molded material that broke.   
> Possibly the carbon fibre cored material might have been strong enough.
>  
> Anyway,  in 6 hours I'll know if the PLA version was worth the effort.  The 
> attached photo is from a Misumi model of a 48T L Type.  I removed the flanges 
> since they flare out and would make holding onto the build plate an issue.  

I have good results printing pulleys with PETG (100% infill).

>  
> I'll turn a hub out of aluminium.
> 
>  
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: December-27-20 2:14 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Making L Type Timing pulleys.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > On 27 Dec 2020, at 22:02, Chris Albertson < 
> > >  albertson.ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > You really CAN print pulley teeth.   You might argue "plastic is not 
> > > strong
> > > enough".   If so then you will have a bigger problem with the rubber belt
> > > teeth not being strong enough.
> > 
> > Absolutely. 3D print is very comparable in strength to belt materials.
> > 
> > Though, machining is faster for me. But not for most, I suspect.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> >   Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >   
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone and MachineKit

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sun, 13 Dec 11:22:08 -0800
 John Dammeyer scripsit:
> [...]
> So I'll throw up the question.  Is as you said, "the Beagle board is grossly 
> underpowered", or has LinuxCNC/MachineKit suffered now the same Code Bloat 
> that Microsoft Windows and Apple have, making the need for bigger processors 
> with more memory mandatory?

I do my daily work on a T61 from 2005. It boots devuan in < 15 seconds from 
power on to TDE. My mill is run by a T60 with Libreboot + TDE. I have a 
testsystem on a OnangePi Nano LTS. It works, just axis (opengl) is a bit laggy 
- the simpler GUIs work just fine. So for me LinuxCNC never has been the 
problem. The problem is GUIs and "modernisation". If you stay away from 
anything GNOME and systemd, you are fine - and probably will be for the years 
to come.

Nik

> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] buster warning

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sat, 5 Dec 10:35:05 -0500
 Gene Heskett scripsit:
> On Saturday 05 December 2020 09:18:06 Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> > On Saturday 05 December 2020 08:46:06 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > Greetings all;
> > >
> > > I just updated my one wintel/buster install, on a D525-MW mobo in an
> > > OAK box, which replaced the rt kernel with a new version of
> > > 4.19.0-rt13 and when synaptic was done, issued a sudo reboot to
> > > reboot to it...
> > >
> > > 10 minutes later it is still not pingable. I've not yet had a chance
> > > to go check it physically as its up the hill in a separate building.
> > >
> > > But I thought you with uptodate buster installs might want to know
> > > something could be wrong.
> > >
> > > I'll report more when I know more.
> >
> > When I got there and turned on the monitor, is was waiting for someone
> > it knew to log in. So I logged in and checked the new linuxcnc, seemed
> > to be ok. But arriving back in this chair, it has no network. CCing
> > debian- user since I assume the new kernel came from there. So I'll go
> > back and see whats wrong with the ifup's. More later.
> 
> Went back and rebooted it to the last 3 rt kernels, no network for -rt12.
> 
> Got normal net from -rt11, reboot back to -rt12, works, ditto -rt13 
> works, and the default let it time out works.
> 
> WTH. Come back to house again, ssh now works but keys are wrong, login 
> anyway.
> 
> reboot it from here, ping is back in around 40 secs, takes an ssh login a 
> few seconds later. Everything seems normal.  Go back up, kill the power 
> to the monitor and the lathe this machine controls, come back and reboot 
> it again. Works. WTH? I am glad, but I've also made a few trips up the 
> hill on 86 yo pins and wasted at least 2 hours doing it. And I did not 
> touch anything with an editor.  And while it is working, there still is 
> not a /dev/enp1s0 to be found except in an "ip a" output. Or 
> in /e/n/interfaces.  udev makes this stuff up out of whole cloth now?
> 
> Call me bumfuzzled, this does not make sense.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

Just a guess: you have "avahi" installed?

Nik



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Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 2 Dec 23:10:38 -0500
 ken.stra...@gmail.com scripsit:
> That would be great but if the USB-serial has power then it is found in the
> USB enumeration even if the MCU is busy and ignoring the serial data stream.
> That is why I was considering holding a FT232 in RESET until everything is
> ready to process commands. The relay in the USB cable suggested by John
> would do what you suggest.

You can just force USB line D+ to GND from the uC after a reset and initialite 
the USB stack when the uC has done it's setup work. As long as D+ is on GND, 
the device is not present, but it'll pop up in USB enumeration as soon as the 
line is released (1.5k pullup for normal operation).


> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson  
> Sent: December 2, 2020 10:33 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question
> 
> So PP does the scan of USB devices and does not see your device. It will not
> see your device because it is still initializing and is ignoring the "set
> up"
> packets.   Finally, your device responds and then PP responds to the
> connection.   The trick is to NOT connect until you are ready.  You do not
> want PP to see the USB device. So ignore the USB setups
> 
> This way the device never completes the "plug-in" until it is ready.
> 
> Eventually the device is done all the home and self-test operations and is
> ready and PP responds to the plug-in event.
> 
> There are many other USB devices that do this.  Think about any device that
> is powered from the USB 5 volts supply.   It is not even booted until after
> the power is there so it must do the USB connection as the very last thing
> only after it is up and running.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 4:55 PM  wrote:
> 
> > Chris wrote:  I think USB takes care of this for you.  "set up" 
> > packets are sent by the host (the PC) and never by the device (mouse, 
> > disk, or
> > whatever)
> > The device never starts doing anything until after it hears from the host.
> >
> > You've precisely described my problem!  I need to do somewhat time 
> > consuming initialization -- home some steppers, actuate a pneumatic 
> > cylinder, prime a pump, verify coolant pressure, etc. Soon after 
> > PathPilot starts it scans for my USB device and, if found, sends a 
> > query to ensure that I'm actually alive. If I ignore or reject the 
> > alive query then PathPilot ignores me until my USB disconnects and 
> > then reconnects.
> >
> > My problem is that I may not yet know if I will ever be alive and 
> > ready when I'm first asked. I have a plan to queue any host requests 
> > received while I'm still initializing.
> >
> > Probably more explanation than you wanted!
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chris Albertson 
> > Sent: December 2, 2020 6:20 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question
> >
> > I think USB takes care of this for you.  "set up" packets are sent by 
> > the host (the PC) and never by the device (mouse, disk, or whatever)  
> > The device never starts doing anything until after it hears from the 
> > host.  The host
> > (Linux) is constantly polling the USB port
> >
> > So let's say the device was faster than the PC.   then the device would
> > wait for "setup packets" before enumerating.  What if the PC sent "setup"
> > before the device was alive.  Then nothing happens and the PC keeps
> "setup"
> > until the device boots.
> >
> > I think this is done 1000 times per second so the connection is 
> > started only a millisecond after the slower end is running.  Then the 
> > next thing is they have to agree on speed and power usage.
> >
> > The protocol takes care of one being faster, power, and which USB 
> > standard is to be used.
> >
> > I don't think you need to even fully understand if you use a USB 
> > library to handle it.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 1:04 PM John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > > > OK, then you likely don't need a FT232 chip.   The microcontroller,
> > > > whichever one you use, will likely have USB2 built-in.   Or just make
> > > sure
> > > > it does, so many chips have this.
> > > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 12:00 PM  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > To clarify:
> > > > > I am working on an accessory for a Tormach mill running 
> > > > > PathPilot (a flavour of LinuxCNC). It is for personal use so I 
> > > > > don't need to especially
> > > worry
> > > > > about product cost but obviously I'd rather not spend a lot on
> > > something
> > > > > that may eventually be abandoned when I get a better idea. I 
> > > > > could
> > > modify
> > > > > the Tormach source code to solve my timing problems but I'd 
> > > > > prefer to
> > > use
> > > > > it
> > > > > unchanged to ease the installation of their updates.
> > >
> > > It appears the issues isn't so much whether a processor with 
> > > internal or external USB is u

Re: [Emc-users] BTDT re BACKGROUND,FOREGROUND not defined.

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Freitag, 5. Februar 2016 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> After an update session, x (twm) was restarted on the GO704 mill install.
> 
> Now Rainers python script will not run, BACKGROUND undefined, and 
> presumably, following normal proceedure if I get that fixed, the 
> FOREGROUND will be used as the next excuse to exit the script.
> 
> Fail msg:
> 
> gene@GO704:~/linuxcnc$ python python_opencv_camera_example_with_gui.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "python_opencv_camera_example_with_gui.py", line 278, in 
> main()
>   File "python_opencv_camera_example_with_gui.py", line 222, in main
> root = Tk()
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1712, in __init__
> self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className, 
> interactive, wantobjects, useTk, sync, use)
> _tkinter.TclError: unknown color name "BACKGROUND"
> 
> What can I put in ~/.basrc or ~/.profile that will fix this till the next 
> install wipes it out?  I tried 'export BACKGROUND=0,0,0' (for black) and 
> while it shows in an env report, it has no effect.
> 
> I know this was hashed at length, a year or more ago, but can't recall 
> what was done before.
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

Hi Gene!

It's still the old solution with "xrdb", same that works on TDE :-)
This is (still) in my ~/.xsessionrc :

# LINUXCNC
(
sleep 10
xrdb -all -query|sed -e 's#[A-Z_]*BACKGROUND# gray90#' -e 
's#[A-Z_]*FOREGROUND# Black#'  -e 's#[A-Z_]*HIGHLIGHT# White#' -e 
's#[A-Z_]*LOWLIGHT# Black
) &


Nik



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Re: [Emc-users] Need a better wm/Gui for my machines

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Mittwoch, 11. November 2015 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> On Wednesday 11 November 2015 05:36:22 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> 
> > Hi Gene!
> >
> > > Ok, I killed the Autostart file, and the delay & message lines &
> > > made the link.  Is this the final version? :)
> >
> > Almost :-) If you want to be almost absolutely sure that the
> > xresources are changed after TDE loads it's theme then you should use
> > this fragment:
> >
> > # LINUXCNC
> > (
> > sleep 10
> > xrdb -all -query|sed -e 's#[A-Z_]*BACKGROUND# gray90#' -e
> > 's#[A-Z_]*FOREGROUND# Black#'  -e 's#[A-Z_]*HIGHLIGHT# White#' -e
> > 's#[A-Z_]*LOWLIGHT# Black#'|xrdb -merge ) &
> >
> In what file? The trail is getting dim here.
> 
> > ... and that's definitly the finally the last version :-)
> >
> > Nik
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

Hi Gene!

Put it in .xinitrc . You could also put just the line with "xrdb ..." it in 
your .bashrc. Just make sure that the xresources are set propperly if you start 
linuxcnc.

nik


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Re: [Emc-users] Need a better wm/Gui for my machines

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi Gene!

> Ok, I killed the Autostart file, and the delay & message lines & made the 
> link.  Is this the final version? :)

Almost :-) If you want to be almost absolutely sure that the xresources are 
changed after TDE loads it's theme then you should use this fragment:

# LINUXCNC
(
sleep 10
xrdb -all -query|sed -e 's#[A-Z_]*BACKGROUND# gray90#' -e 
's#[A-Z_]*FOREGROUND# Black#'  -e 's#[A-Z_]*HIGHLIGHT# White#' -e 
's#[A-Z_]*LOWLIGHT# Black#'|xrdb -merge
) &

... and that's definitly the finally the last version :-)

Nik


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Re: [Emc-users] Need a better wm/Gui for my machines

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Mittwoch, 11. November 2015 schrieb Dr. Nikolaus Klepp:
> Hi Gene!
> 
> > > or place this fragment in .xinitrc (all in one line) or any script
> > > that gets executed when you log into your X session:
> > >
> > > xrdb -all -query|sed -e 's#[A-Z_]*BACKGROUND# gray90#' -e
> > > 's#[A-Z_]*FOREGROUND# Black#'  -e 's#[A-Z_]*HIGHLIGHT# White#' -e
> > > 's#[A-Z_]*LOWLIGHT# Black#'|xrdb -merge
> > >
> > This had no effect. Puzzling.
> 
> I always forget ... TDE does not execute ~/.xinitrc nor ~/.xsessionrc, so you 
> need a little workaround:
> 
> Create a file ~/.trinity/Autostart/xinitrc.desktop with this content - adapt 
> line 3 to your .xinitrc:

Hi Gene!

Sorry, forget the thing with .trinity/Autostart/xinitrc.desktop and the added 
delay. Just make:
$ ln -s .xinitrc .xsessionrc
and it should work.

Nik



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Re: [Emc-users] Need a better wm/Gui for my machines

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi Gene!

> > or place this fragment in .xinitrc (all in one line) or any script
> > that gets executed when you log into your X session:
> >
> > xrdb -all -query|sed -e 's#[A-Z_]*BACKGROUND# gray90#' -e
> > 's#[A-Z_]*FOREGROUND# Black#'  -e 's#[A-Z_]*HIGHLIGHT# White#' -e
> > 's#[A-Z_]*LOWLIGHT# Black#'|xrdb -merge
> >
> This had no effect. Puzzling.

I always forget ... TDE does not execute ~/.xinitrc nor ~/.xsessionrc, so you 
need a little workaround:

Create a file ~/.trinity/Autostart/xinitrc.desktop with this content - adapt 
line 3 to your .xinitrc:

[Desktop Entry]
Comment=
Exec[$e]='/home/gene/.xinitrc'
GenericName=
Icon=exec
MimeType=
Name=
Path[$e]=
StartupNotify=true
Terminal=false
TerminalOptions=
Type=Application
X-DCOP-ServiceType=
X-TDE-SubstituteUID=false
X-TDE-Username=

Then make sure .xinitrc is executable and works when you execute it from 
konsole. It may be necessary to add a little start delay, so my .xinitrc begins 
with:

#!/bin/bash
sleep 5
# DEBUG
xmessage ".xinitrc :-)"

Now restart trinity and look if the message window comes up ..

Nik

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Re: [Emc-users] Need a better wm/Gui for my machines

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi Gene!

LOL ... I think the rinity mailinglist has an archive :-)

Place this in your .bashrc if you run linuxcnc from commandline (all in one 
line):

alias linuxcnc="xrdb -all -query|sed -e 's#[A-Z_]*BACKGROUND# gray90#' -e 
's#[A-Z_]*FOREGROUND# Black#'  -e 's#[A-Z_]*HIGHLIGHT# White#' -e 
's#[A-Z_]*LOWLIGHT# Black#'|xrdb -merge; linuxcnc"

or place this fragment in .xinitrc (all in one line) or any script that gets 
executed when you log into your X session:

xrdb -all -query|sed -e 's#[A-Z_]*BACKGROUND# gray90#' -e 's#[A-Z_]*FOREGROUND# 
Black#'  -e 's#[A-Z_]*HIGHLIGHT# White#' -e 's#[A-Z_]*LOWLIGHT# Black#'|xrdb 
-merge

nik


Am Dienstag, 10. November 2015 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> On Tuesday 10 November 2015 08:55:30 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> 
> > Am Dienstag, 10. November 2015 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> > > On Tuesday 10 November 2015 07:34:46 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > > > Am Dienstag, 10. November 2015 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> > > > > Good morning everybody;
> > > > >
> > > > > I am running TDE on this box, and am quite happy with it.
> > > > >
> > > > > [...]
> > > > >
> > > > > So on your machines with limited horsepower like the atoms, what
> > > > > wm/gui family are you folks using?
> > > >
> > > > Hi Gene!
> > > >
> > > > As you might suspect, I'm running TDE on my mill, too :-)
> > >
> > > And its computer is a?
> >
> > The "old" one was a Dell Optiplex 755 (I think) from 2008 with 1G RAM
> > and a 4GB CF-Card. The "new" one is a D945GCLF2 with 1G RAM and again
> > a 4GB CF Card.
> >
> > I added Slavecs repository to /etc/apt/sources:
> >
> > deb http://mirror.xcer.cz/trinity-sb wheezy deps-r14 main-r14
> >
> > then install Slavecs keys and TDE:
> >
> > # apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.quickbuild.pearsoncomputing.net
> > --recv-key A04BE668 # aptitude install tde-trinity
> >
> > And then get rid of the stuff you don't like (xfce ...) :-)
> >
> > Nik
> 
> Did that, had to nuke xfce and lightdm to keep them from overriding 
> things, but now nothing lcnc related will run, familiar problem I've 
> forgotten how to fix, "BACKGROUND color not defined".  And when I fix 
> that FOREGROUND color will be a duplicate show stopper.
> 
> The rest of it seems raring to go.  But I can't stay in here more than 
> another 10 minutes as I've slathered on coat of tung oil on a chest lid 
> I have to go wipe dry.  Then I hit Lowes in Buchannon and get me a 
> couple more rolls of toolbox drawer liner to pad and non-skid the top of 
> my work table, and some sort of a teflon tape to cover the skid plates 
> on my biscuit jointer, its scratching up the wood and it doesn't show 
> until its wet with tung oil.  I'm using it as a router to plow grooves 
> for the  book ends of the lids, which need a groove for location strips, 
> locking the wide top panels to the heavier end boards to stop, or try 
> to, the warping of the tops, which are 2 widths of 1x12" 41.25" long 
> biscuit joined to make one board.  And this kiln dried stuff is warping 
> like crazy.  It was sunk in a river in Honduras for about 100 years 
> until fished out and and dried because there is no new Mahogany being 
> harvested, tropical rain forest rules & regs we are told.
> 
> And I'd better go get to wipeing off the surplus, Minwax says wipe 
> completely dry.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett



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Re: [Emc-users] Need a better wm/Gui for my machines

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Dienstag, 10. November 2015 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> On Tuesday 10 November 2015 07:34:46 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> 
> > Am Dienstag, 10. November 2015 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> > > Good morning everybody;
> > >
> > > I am running TDE on this box, and am quite happy with it.
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > So on your machines with limited horsepower like the atoms, what
> > > wm/gui family are you folks using?
> >
> > Hi Gene!
> >
> > As you might suspect, I'm running TDE on my mill, too :-)
> >
> And its computer is a?


The "old" one was a Dell Optiplex 755 (I think) from 2008 with 1G RAM and a 4GB 
CF-Card. The "new" one is a D945GCLF2 with 1G RAM and again a 4GB CF Card.

I added Slavecs repository to /etc/apt/sources:

deb http://mirror.xcer.cz/trinity-sb wheezy deps-r14 main-r14

then install Slavecs keys and TDE:

# apt-key adv --keyserver keyserver.quickbuild.pearsoncomputing.net --recv-key 
A04BE668
# aptitude install tde-trinity

And then get rid of the stuff you don't like (xfce ...) :-)

Nik

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Re: [Emc-users] Need a better wm/Gui for my machines

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Dienstag, 10. November 2015 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> Good morning everybody;
> 
> I am running TDE on this box, and am quite happy with it.
> 
> [...]
>
> So on your machines with limited horsepower like the atoms, what wm/gui 
> family are you folks using?

Hi Gene!

As you might suspect, I'm running TDE on my mill, too :-)


Nik

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Re: [Emc-users] some weird issues

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Donnerstag, 22. Oktober 2015 schrieb chris:
> I've got some weird issues that have popped up recently. One of the first 
> things
> that I noticed is that the is when I pan the image around in the axis screen
> it's really jerky, which is how it used to be, then after updating it got to
> where it was really smooth, now it's back to acting like that.  Another issue
> I'm having is that the date and time setting are wrong every time I start up 
> the
> computer. I'll reset them and when I restart the computer they are off again.
> Another issue that I'm having is at startup I keep getting a message about 
> cmos
> settings and size being wrong, I have to click on F2 to continue the startup. 
> I
> was finally able to update the system today after a couple weeks of it failing
> every time I tried. I'm just curious if something on my system is messed up or
> if something in one of the updates might have messed things up. I had been
> working perfectly and flawlessly.
>  
> Chris

I'd suggest you change the CMOS battery :-)

Nik


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Re: [Emc-users] G1 followed by G2/3

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Dienstag, 4. November 2014 schrieb Viesturs Lācis:
> 2014-11-04 13:52 GMT+02:00 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp :
> > Hi all!
> >
> > Is it normal that a G1 followed by a G2/G3 slows the feed speed to an 
> > almost halt at the transition point, but executing G2/G3 follwed by G1 
> > works without speed loss? Is there a way to work around this problem? The 
> > same problem occures on G2/G3 G2/G3 transition.
> >
> 
> It depends on G61/G61.1/G64 (P xx) commands - check out their meaning here:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G61-G61_1
> 
> You might want to try G64 with small blending tolerance, like 0,05 mm.
> That would look like G64 P0.05 in the beginning of your g-code file.
> 
> It also depends, if any of those G1 are tangents to G2/G3 (also of
> both G2/G3 are tangents).
> 
> Viesturs

Thank you, that solved the problem :-) My header included "G64 P0.01" which was 
a bit too tight.

Nik

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[Emc-users] G1 followed by G2/3

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi all!

Is it normal that a G1 followed by a G2/G3 slows the feed speed to an almost 
halt at the transition point, but executing G2/G3 follwed by G1 works without 
speed loss? Is there a way to work around this problem? The same problem 
occures on G2/G3 G2/G3 transition.

Nik

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[Emc-users] BeBoPr+ for sale

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi all!

As I'm back on classic CNC routers and not in 3D printing any more, I've put up 
my BrBoPr for sale on ebay: http://www.ebay.de/itm/161416719796

Nik

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.6.0~pre5

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

the factor is slightly ~ 50 for austria, giving the official statitics of 
"statistics austria". that makes a good dollar :-)

Nik

Am Donnerstag, 24. Juli 2014 schrieb dave:
> 
> 
> Golly Gee Gene:
> 
> The buck is a bit of exaggeration ...not long after you were born a
> letter cost 3 cents to mail, I'm guessing gas was 18 cents/gal and we
> got electricity for something like .5 cents/KWh. A scale factor of
> approx 18 would make sense. Which suggest that your two cents, adjusted
> by a SWAG comes out a bit more like 1/3 of a dollar. 
> Just being picky this morning; which by the way was a wonderful 47
> degrees overnite. 
> 
> Dave
> > > 
> > > just my 2 cents
> > 
> > Worth a bit more than that Stuart.  I always adjust for inflation since I 
> > was born nearly 80 years back up the log, which makes that 2 cents worth 
> > at least a buck these days. ;-)
> >  
> > > Stuart
> > > 
> > > > Steve Blackmore
> > > > --
> > 
> > Steve, you've helped me on occasion, so I am somewhat puzzled at the 
> > negativity of your recent posts.  Is there a reason for that?
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] New user request

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Samstag, 28. Dezember 2013 schrieb Gene Heskett:
> On Saturday 28 December 2013 14:36:50 Paul Midgley did opine:
> > Hello
> >
> > I have been trying to set up my home built cnc mill to run on linuxcnc,
> > but with no success.
> >
> > I have a controller card that I bought of ebay a 3 axis TB6560 driver
> > board.
> >
> > Has any one had any success setting up these controller cards, they
> > appear to have an drive enable function, but I do not know how to set
> > this up under linuxcnc.
> >
> > Thanks for any help.
>
> Linuxcnc can do that if your interface card can.  I am not fam with that
> particular motor controller its too small even for my toy mill, so about
> all I can do is have your check the voltage on the enable pin with a
> digital meter, if under a volt from ground, wire it to 5 volts to enable,
> or if its 2.5 volts or more, wire it to the minus (0 volts/ground) rail.
> One or the other should enable it and as long as you limit the applied
> voltage to zero or 5 volts, you shouldn't be able to damage it.
>
> Be aware that this motor driver, like the Allegro A-3977 versions will spit
> out the smoke and mirrors that make it work if there is even a hint of a
> loose connection between it and the motors when its powered up.  It also is
> afraid of more than about 27 volts to run the motors, 24 max recommended,
> and that will limit the motors top speed.
>
> The 2M542 driver costs more, capable of handling 4.2 amp motors and a 50
> volt supply.  But I bought 7 of them, 4 for the mill and 2 for the lathe.
> 2+ years later, the 7nth one is still in its box in a toolbox drawer next
> to the lathe. Bulletproof. $45-$50/copy on fleabay.  They Just Work(TM).
>
> Cheers, Gene

I have 2 of these TB6560 driver cards, both kind of work. But there are about 
4 different pinouts aroundof the sub-d connector around. The enable-Pin is 
somewhere on the 15-pole sub-d, but it's tied to +5V via a resistor.

I've attatched the hal-file of my router, maybe the pinout matches yours. 

Nik

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# Erstellt von stepconf am Sat Feb 23 15:13:42 2013
# Änderungen an dieser Datei werden beim nächsten
# Aufruf von stepconf überschrieben.
loadrt trivkins
loadrt [EMCMOT]EMCMOT base_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]BASE_PERIOD 
servo_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]SERVO_PERIOD num_joints=[TRAJ]AXES
loadrt probe_parport
loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x378 out  "
setp parport.0.reset-time 5000
loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0,0
loadrt classicladder_rt numPhysInputs=15 numPhysOutputs=15 numS32in=10 
numS32out=10 numFloatIn=10 numFloatOut=10

addf parport.0.read base-thread
addf stepgen.make-pulses base-thread
addf parport.0.write base-thread
addf parport.0.reset base-thread

addf stepgen.capture-position servo-thread
addf motion-command-handler servo-thread
addf motion-controller servo-thread
addf classicladder.0.refresh servo-thread
addf stepgen.update-freq servo-thread
net spindle-cmd <= motion.spindle-speed-out
net spindle-on <= motion.spindle-on

setp parport.0.pin-01-out-invert 1
net xdir => parport.0.pin-01-out
net spindle-on => parport.0.pin-02-out
net zstep => parport.0.pin-03-out
setp parport.0.pin-03-out-reset 1
net xenable => parport.0.pin-04-out
net zenable => parport.0.pin-05-out
net zdir => parport.0.pin-06-out
net ydir => parport.0.pin-07-out
net ystep => parport.0.pin-14-out
setp parport.0.pin-14-out-reset 1
net xstep => parport.0.pin-16-out
setp parport.0.pin-16-out-reset 1
net yenable => parport.0.pin-17-out


net max-home-x <= parport.0.pin-10-in
net max-home-y <= parport.0.pin-11-in
net max-home-z <= parport.0.pin-12-in


setp stepgen.0.position-scale [AXIS_0]SCALE
setp stepgen.0.steplen 1
setp stepgen.0.stepspace 0
setp stepgen.0.dirhold 28000
setp stepgen.0.dirsetup 28000
setp stepgen.0.maxaccel [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
net xpos-cmd axis.0.motor-pos-cmd => stepgen.0.position-cmd
net xpos-fb stepgen.0.position-fb => axis.0.motor-pos-fb
net xstep <= stepgen.0.step
net xdir <= stepgen.0.dir
net xenable axis.0.amp-enable-out => stepgen.0.enable
net max-home-x => axis.0.home-sw-in
net max-home-x => axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in

setp stepgen.1.position-scale [AXIS_1]SCALE
setp stepgen.1.steplen 1
setp stepgen.1.stepspace 0
setp stepgen.1.dirhold 28000
setp stepgen.1.dirsetup 28000
setp stepgen.1.maxaccel [AXIS_1]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
net ypos-cmd axis.1.motor-pos-cmd => stepgen.1.position-cmd
net ypos-fb stepgen.1.position-fb => axis.1.motor-pos-fb
net ystep <= stepgen.1.step
net ydir <= stepgen.1.dir
net yenable axis.1.amp-enable-out => stepgen.1.enable
net max-home-y => axis.1.home-sw-in
net max-home-y => axis.1.pos-lim-sw-in

setp stepgen.2.position-scale [AXIS_2]SCALE
setp stepgen.2.steplen 1
setp stepgen.2.stepspace 0
setp stepgen.2.dirhold 28000
setp stepgen.2.dirsetup 28000
setp stepgen.2.maxaccel [AXIS_2]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
net zpos-cmd axis.2.motor-pos-cmd => stepgen.2.position-cmd
net zpos-fb stepgen.2.position-fb => axis.2.motor-pos-fb
net zstep <= stepgen.2.

Re: [Emc-users] New thread, visolate

[Mag. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

> You know you have a problem when you first have to explain what the
> "thing" was before you can explain why what you did with the "thing" was
> so cool and still you get a blank look.

This perfectly sums up the loss tech dilemma :-)

Nik

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Re: [Emc-users] Electronics failing in cold weather?

[Mag. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Montag, 26. Dezember 2011 schrieb Igor Chudov:
> I had, recently, a couple of instances of electronics failing, seemingly,
> from cold weather.
>
> 1. Netgear GS-108 8 port gigabit switch failed when I left on vacation and
> let the house cool to 52 degrees F.
>
> 2. Saitek USB joystick on my CNC mill failed when the garage cooled to,
> perhaps, 40 degrees F.
>
> I am wondering, what specifically could possibly account for those
> failures, what mechanism. Thanks.

electrolytic capacitor usually fail when temperatures get near their lower 
temperature specs, which happens to be 0°C for most consumer products. In 
consequence the nominal capacity is not reached and the voltage converters 
fail.

Nik

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Re: [Emc-users] fail2ban default setup gotcha

[Mag. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

 and the splash-screen goes away
+ for dmesg output

Am Sonntag, 25. Dezember 2011 schrieb Mark Wendt (Contractor):
> On 12/24/2011 3:32 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> > gene heskett wrote:
> >> And sudo quits working, so you can't fix anything else.
> >
> > You actually can, but you have to get down to hacker level.  You can get
> > into
> > grub, show the default boot command, and add the option to go to
> > single-user boot mode.  When Linux comes up, you are the super-user,
> > period. Here a link with some pictures:
> > http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/grub-boot-into-single-user-mode/
> >
> > I've had to do stuff like this a few times when the boot record got
> > messed up
> > or something.
> >
> > Jon
>
> Anybody remember the Alt- key combo to bring up the
> running of the startup scripts rather than the Ubuntu splash screen
> during boot?  I thought I had it saved away somewhere but I'll be durned
> if I can find it.  That's helpful if you are having issues with a
> process on startup or a hang during the boot.
>
> Mark
>
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Re: [Emc-users] rtapi kernel must be loaded?

[Mag. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

> In usual applications - yes. In terminal - no.
> In terminal Ctrl+C will terminate the process, You are doing there.
> Copy is Ctrl+Shift+C, Paste is Ctrl+Shift+V or Shift+Insert.
> I just tried and it works this way at least on Lucid.
>
> Viesturs

Hm, using X11 "copy" is marking the text with your mouse and "paste" is "press 
middle mouse button".

Nik

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Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?

[Mag. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

I am using Debian squeeze + Trinity Desktop + Kernel and EMC2 from EMC 
Repository. Basicly it's identical to Exe Linux Live-CD 
http://exe-linux.fastfishwebsolutions.com/ with some tweaking (replace kernel 
and some libs for emc). Basicly it's a good way to go for me, as I like 
KDE3.5.

Nik


Am Freitag, 25. November 2011 schrieb Moses McKnight:
> Another option to consider is not using Unity or Gnome3 but maybe LXDE
> or XFCE instead.  Both of these are quite adequate for a machine control
> and general desktop use.  I used Xubuntu on my router table because it
> took less resources, and it works just fine.
>
> Another thing I thought of last time and it may be a good idea still, is
> to have a UP kernel and a SMP kernel and people could chose the one that
> works best for their computer.  There may be a way to have the liveCD
> install pick the right kernel, but if not at least it could be an option
> in the repository for after the install.
>
> I'm willing to help work on the next release again btw if I can carve
> out a little time.
>
> Moses
>
> On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Karl Schmidt wrote:
> > In the long run, I think it would be MUCH better to target Debian stable.
> > There is no need for most of the bleeding edge issues that come with
> > Ubuntu for an application like EMC.  The stable dist of Debian is really
> > stable and used by many as servers.  The only things that change have to
> > do with security issues.
> >
> > For a 'live' edition, Debian live could be tweaked with a realtime
> > kernel.
> >
> > Ubuntu is really Debian with some rather ugly hacks to make it easy for
> > desktop users (to play flash etc.)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> >--- Karl Schmidt  EMail
> > k...@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc.  WEB
> > http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph
> > (785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049  FAX (785)
> > 841-0434
> >
> > Truth is mighty and will prevail.
> > There is nothing wrong with this,
> > except that it ain't so.
> > --Mark Twain
> >
> > -
> >---
> >
> > -
> >- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure
> > contains a definitive record of customers, application performance,
> > security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this
> > data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
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