[EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
Has anyone heard of this company, or have any experience with them. http://www.thehybridshop.com/battery-conditioning/how-hybrid-battery-conditioning-works-science/ A friend has a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid, and his batteries are starting to show signs of old age. To replace the pack at the dealer is $5000 vs. $1000 - $1500 to recondition them. Sounds like voodoo to me, but I have no experience with nickel metal hybrid batteries. Need to know if this is really a viable alternative. Thanks; Dennis Elsberry, MO http://www.evalbum.com/1366 http://evalbum.com/3715 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/40c8bed3/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_restore_nickel_based_batteries Sent from my iPad On Nov 17, 2014, at 5:57 AM, Pestka, Dennis J via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Has anyone heard of this company, or have any experience with them. http://www.thehybridshop.com/battery-conditioning/how-hybrid-battery-conditioning-works-science/ A friend has a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid, and his batteries are starting to show signs of old age. To replace the pack at the dealer is $5000 vs. $1000 - $1500 to recondition them. Sounds like voodoo to me, but I have no experience with nickel metal hybrid batteries. Need to know if this is really a viable alternative. Thanks; Dennis Elsberry, MO http://www.evalbum.com/1366 http://evalbum.com/3715 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/40c8bed3/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
Paul, They are about the only game in town. I have looked briefly at their web stuff and I think they know what they are doing. They seem to build and/or sell some test equipment - implying some expertise. Tomorrow I am visiting a community college (Blue Ridge in Flat Rock NC) that has a pretty extensive training program for working on Prius. They also work on the battery packs. If he is near there he might get a good deal from BRCC, or lean about trained mechanics. I will ask the people at BRCC what they know about The Hybrid Shop. However, I will be out of cell and internet range until next Monday. You could ask THS what they do for $1500, and see if it makes sense. I believe the check the pack pretty thoroughly, and replace any bad cells - what the means regarding NiMH I do not know. Presumably they would have to balance the pack within some range, reject cells that degrade overall pack function and cycle life, etc. If they are comparing the servicing of the pack to new ones they must be pretty good when it is all done. On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 7:06 AM, Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_restore_nickel_based_batteries Sent from my iPad On Nov 17, 2014, at 5:57 AM, Pestka, Dennis J via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Has anyone heard of this company, or have any experience with them. http://www.thehybridshop.com/battery-conditioning/how-hybrid-battery-conditioning-works-science/ A friend has a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid, and his batteries are starting to show signs of old age. To replace the pack at the dealer is $5000 vs. $1000 - $1500 to recondition them. Sounds like voodoo to me, but I have no experience with nickel metal hybrid batteries. Need to know if this is really a viable alternative. Thanks; Dennis Elsberry, MO http://www.evalbum.com/1366 http://evalbum.com/3715 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/40c8bed3/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/da4c61d8/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
From the webpage description, it sounds like they know what they're doing, though I have no way to judge whether they're using appropriate criteria for deciding which modules are defective. Alas, any time you fix a declining EV battery by replacing the worst cells or blocks, rather than all of them, you have no way to know what other cells or blocks might turn toes up next week, next month, or next year. I've done what they describe with lead EV batteries, replacing blocks as they fail. With that situation it's mostly a losing game, because once a couple blocks die, the rest usually aren't far behind. Coincidentally, this is a NiMH question I'm facing too. I have a 36v 10ah NiMH e-bike battery here that's on its last legs. I've been debating whether to (a) replace just the bum cells and see how it goes, (b) replace all the cells, or (c) gut the battery and try lithium cells instead. (Tenergy brand tabbed D-size cells are around $9 each plus shipping; other brands are much more expensive, if you can even find them with tabs.) I'll be interested to hear from anyone who has experience doing this with NiMH in EVs. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
You all need to read the link I posted. It explains how to recondition Nickle based batteries. It also explains the failure mechanism and why this works. From: EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning From the webpage description, it sounds like they know what they're doing, though I have no way to judge whether they're using appropriate criteria for deciding which modules are defective. Alas, any time you fix a declining EV battery by replacing the worst cells or blocks, rather than all of them, you have no way to know what other cells or blocks might turn toes up next week, next month, or next year. I've done what they describe with lead EV batteries, replacing blocks as they fail. With that situation it's mostly a losing game, because once a couple blocks die, the rest usually aren't far behind. Coincidentally, this is a NiMH question I'm facing too. I have a 36v 10ah NiMH e-bike battery here that's on its last legs. I've been debating whether to (a) replace just the bum cells and see how it goes, (b) replace all the cells, or (c) gut the battery and try lithium cells instead. (Tenergy brand tabbed D-size cells are around $9 each plus shipping; other brands are much more expensive, if you can even find them with tabs.) I'll be interested to hear from anyone who has experience doing this with NiMH in EVs. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/8634f361/attachment-0001.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
On this topic - reconditioning Prius packs. During the visit I am making tomorrow to the Prius repair classes at Blue Ridge Community College... what questions do you think I should ask them there to see how they are managing their repairs of Prius packs? The answers might be interesting to Dennis Pestka as well. On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:15 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: From the webpage description, it sounds like they know what they're doing, though I have no way to judge whether they're using appropriate criteria for deciding which modules are defective. Alas, any time you fix a declining EV battery by replacing the worst cells or blocks, rather than all of them, you have no way to know what other cells or blocks might turn toes up next week, next month, or next year. I've done what they describe with lead EV batteries, replacing blocks as they fail. With that situation it's mostly a losing game, because once a couple blocks die, the rest usually aren't far behind. Coincidentally, this is a NiMH question I'm facing too. I have a 36v 10ah NiMH e-bike battery here that's on its last legs. I've been debating whether to (a) replace just the bum cells and see how it goes, (b) replace all the cells, or (c) gut the battery and try lithium cells instead. (Tenergy brand tabbed D-size cells are around $9 each plus shipping; other brands are much more expensive, if you can even find them with tabs.) I'll be interested to hear from anyone who has experience doing this with NiMH in EVs. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/1972f599/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
I have to say, I am wary of The Battery Universit regarding Li ion batteries. I have seen some incorrect information there. Maybe they are fine WRT Prius and NiMH - but I am just sayin'... To me their rep is not pure and unsoiled.. On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:37 AM, paul dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: You all need to read the link I posted. It explains how to recondition Nickle based batteries. It also explains the failure mechanism and why this works. From: EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning From the webpage description, it sounds like they know what they're doing, though I have no way to judge whether they're using appropriate criteria for deciding which modules are defective. Alas, any time you fix a declining EV battery by replacing the worst cells or blocks, rather than all of them, you have no way to know what other cells or blocks might turn toes up next week, next month, or next year. I've done what they describe with lead EV batteries, replacing blocks as they fail. With that situation it's mostly a losing game, because once a couple blocks die, the rest usually aren't far behind. Coincidentally, this is a NiMH question I'm facing too. I have a 36v 10ah NiMH e-bike battery here that's on its last legs. I've been debating whether to (a) replace just the bum cells and see how it goes, (b) replace all the cells, or (c) gut the battery and try lithium cells instead. (Tenergy brand tabbed D-size cells are around $9 each plus shipping; other brands are much more expensive, if you can even find them with tabs.) I'll be interested to hear from anyone who has experience doing this with NiMH in EVs. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/8634f361/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/8a1ca03c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: OR's Oberg wins 1st U.S. e-golf EV w/ $41,400 bid
http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/blog/sbo/2014/11/where-is-the-first-e-golf-in-america-in-oregon.html
Where is the first e-Golf in America? In Oregon!
Nov 12, 2014 Wendy Culverwell
[image
http://media.bizj.us/view/img/4353991/2015-volkswagen-e-golf-cutaway-view.jpg
2015 volkswagen e golf cutaway view - Oregonian Bruce Oberg submitted the
winning bid for the first all-electric Volkswagen Golf sold in America.
video flash
]
Oregonian Bruce Oberg submitted the winning bid for the first all-electric
Volkswagen Golf sold in America.
Cars With Cords reports Oregonian Bruce Oberg was the winning bidder in an
auction of the first electric Volkswagen e-Golf sold in America.
Volkswagen of America decided to auction the first e-Golf and donate
proceeds to Green Global USA, an environmental charity.
The auction ended Oct. 29 and the car was delivered to Oberg on Halloween.
His winning bid of $41,400 was about $6,000 over the car's $35,445 sticker
price.
Oberg told EV News he's long-time Volkswagen fan.
I am pleased to support Global Green USA's work to build a more sustainable
future, and am thrilled that I get to take home one of the
first Volkswagen all-electric vehicles, said Oberg. I love driving EVs, I
have enjoyed owning Volkswagens all my life, and I cannot wait to experience
the e-Golf for myself.
Volkswagen announced plan s to introduce the e-Golf, which has 83 miles of
range, in America a year ago.
With the entry of the e-Golf in America, there are now 21 major electric
vehicle models for sale in the U.S., according to Inside EVs.
[© 2014 American City Business Journals]
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-VW-Is-Auctioning-off-their-1st-E-Golf-EV-ends-10-29-tp4672157.html
EVLN: VW Is Auctioning-off their 1st E-Golf EV, ends 10/29
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble+template%2FNamlServlet.jtp%3Fmacro%3Dsearch_page%26node%3D413529%26query%3DEVLN%2Bbrucedp2%26days%3D0%26sort%3Ddate
http://www.businesscarmanager.co.uk/scotland-best-electric-car-clubs/
Scotland best for electric car clubs
http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/2322264
Airwheel self-balancing unicycle: attempt to rock the world
http://patch.com/california/palmdesert/palm-desert-celebrates-debut-new-electric-vehicle-charging-stations
Palm Desert CA wisely installs 8 L2 EVSE where drivers want to go
+
EVLN: New Renault Zoe EV ad (video)
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-OR-s-Oberg-wins-1st-U-S-e-golf-EV-w-41-400-bid-tp4672636.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Indy 125 $0pkWh rate 10p-6a + an e-meter installation subsidy
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1095466_indiana-utility-electric-car-owners-recharge-free-at-night Indiana Utility: Electric-Car Owners Recharge FREE, At Night By David Noland Nov 14, 2014 [image http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2013-tesla-model-s-and-2011-chevrolet-volt-in-garage-photo-by-george-parrott_100443919_l.jpg 2013 Tesla Model S and 2011 Chevrolet Volt in garage; photo by George Parrott ] Electric-car owners know that home recharging is virtually always cheaper, on a per-mile basis, than driving on gasoline. In some cases, it's considerably cheaper. We recently reported on the sweet deal enjoyed by a Tesla Model S owner in Indianapolis, whose local utility charges just 2.3 cents per kWh for overnight EV charging. That puts his fuel cost at less than a penny a mile. (Three farthings, to be precise.) Believe it or not, a couple of hours drive north from Indy, there are (so far) 125 lucky electric-car owners who have an even better deal from their local power company. Would you believe a rate of 0.0 cents per kWh? That's right, it's free. Like having your own personal Supercharger. The electric utility for the norther part of the state, Northern Indiana Public Service Company, offers that zero rate between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. to registered electric-car owners who install a separate meter just for EV charging. The company also offers a subsidy of up to $1,650 toward installation of the meter, which covers the entire cost for the majority of subscribers, according to NIPSCO. The company has been approved to give the subsidies to the first 250 plug-in electric car owners who sign up for the program, which kicked off in 2012. To date, about 125 have signed up. We suspect that NIPSCO will have no difficulty filling those other 125 slots in relatively short order. The program will end after 2015; the utility has not yet decided whether to continue it. [© greencarreports.com] https://www.nipsco.com/docs/default-source/electric-tariffs-docs/rider-685.pdf NORTHERN INDIANA PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY Original Sheet No. 199.1 IURC Electric Service Tariff Original Volume No. 12 Cancelling All Previously Approved Tariffs Issued Date Effective Date 2/1/2012 2/9/2012 RIDER 685 PLUG-IN ELECTRIC VEHICLE OFF-PEAK CHARGING RIDER (PILOT PROGRAM) TO WHOM AVAILABLE Available to Residential Customers concurrently served under Rate 611 (Residential) or Rate 612 (Single Family Residential – Heat Pump), exclusively for charging of such Customers’ licensed plug-in electric vehicles (“PEVs”) using electricity provided by the Company at the Customer’s premises within the Company’s service territory. Energy consumption metered and billed under this Rider shall be used exclusively for charging PEVs. ELECTRIC VEHICLE SUPPLY EQUIPMENT (EVSE) AND INSTALLATION ASSISTANCE For the first 250 eligible Customers who take service under this Rider, the Company will provide a voucher for incurred qualified expenditures by NIPSC O-approved contractors in an amount of up to $1,650.00 to be used toward the purchase and installation of a PEV charging station (limited to one unit per residential Customer) served by a separately metered dedicated circuit. Customers agree to install and maintain any additional necessary equipment. Such installations must conform to current National Electric Code (NEC) specifications. To the extent any of the first 250 eligible Customers receives less than the full $1,650.00 voucher amount, the remainder shall accumulate and be made available so that additional Customers may receive assistance, until such funds are exhausted. NIPSCO will provide a separate, dedicated meter at no charge to any Customer who receives a voucher. RATE The rate consists of energy charges as follows: PEV Off-Peak Charging Net Zero cost, comprised of: $0.028893 per kilowatt hour for all kilowatt hours used per month in the PEV Off-Peak period, plus the current Fuel Cost Charge shown on Appendix B plus all applicable Riders, as shown on Appendix A Offset by: a credit of $0.028893 per kilowatt hour for all kilowatt hours used per month in the PEV Off-Peak period, plus the current Fuel Co st Charge shown on Appendix B plus all applicable Riders, as shown on Appendix A. All energy utilized outside the PEV Off-Peak period will be billed under the Customer’s base energy rate. HOURS OF SERVICE PEV Off-Peak 10:00 p.m. local time to 6:00 a.m. local time the following day, Monday through Sunday PEV On-Peak All other hours SEPARATE METER REQUIREMENT Service under the PEV Off-Peak Charging Rate must be supplied through a dedicated meter, prescribed by the Company that is capable of separately measuring usage in the PEV Off-Peak and PEV On-Peak periods. The cost of the meter, the meter socket, and the meter installation shall be borne by the Customer, unless the Customer qualifies to receive the EVSE and Installation assistance described above. Such meter is to be installed, owned and maintained by the Company.
[EVDL] EVLN: New Renault Zoe EV ad (video)
http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/nov/08/renault-zoe-thats-entertainment-advert
The new Renault Zoe advert
Graeme Virtue 8 November 2014
[video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZida6hy_f8
Discover the New Renault ZOE
Renault UK Oct 23, 2014
Title: All Is Calm
Artist: Whinnie Williams
Song: That's Entertainment
]
‘The latest Renault Zoe campaign sucks the venom out of That’s Entertainment
like a nuclear-powered Dyson’
Kicked-in phone boxes, ripped-up concrete, wailing police sirens … That’s
Entertainment isn’t so much a pop song as a slideshow of curdled urban
vignettes, as if Paul Weller had been commissioned to write the origin story
of Broken Britain. Yet for all the barely suppressed anger, it’s also a Jam
track that’s unusually almost entirely played on acoustic guitar. Going
unplugged should have inoculated the song from the current pandemic of
gauzily acoustic covers that soundtrack adverts at Christmas and beyond,
mutating familiar hits into lullaby bubblebath. No such luck.
The latest Renault Zoe campaign – spotlighting the veteran carmaker’s
flagship 100% electric vehicle – sucks the venom out of That’s Entertainment
like a nuclear-powered Dyson. After the first few harp arpeggios, it’s clear
they’ve gone full sugarplum. Adding insult to infamy, the
inspiration-starved creatives also strip-mine Weller’s lyrics for
storyboarding purposes.
In a montage, a Zoe-driving dude with the blandly handsome features of a
video game’s default avatar faces a gauntlet of chaotic streets crammed with
volatile citizens. Navigating this urban centre as it teeters on the brink
of societal collapse is a breeze for PS4 man thanks to his eerily silent and
impressively soundproofed supermini. Here the Zoe is positioned as
part-flotation tank, part-escape capsule. That seems to fatally misjudge the
target market: if you’re buying an electric car, you’re pretty serious about
wanting to save the planet, rather than looking for selfish ways to insulate
yourself from it. Despite all the Zoe’s innovations in battery technology,
it falls a bit flat.
[© theguardian.com]
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble+template%2FNamlServlet.jtp%3Fmacro%3Dsearch_page%26node%3D413529%26query%3DEVLN%2Bbrucedp2%26days%3D0%26sort%3Ddate
http://www.businesscarmanager.co.uk/scotland-best-electric-car-clubs/
Scotland best for electric car clubs
http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/2322264
Airwheel self-balancing unicycle: attempt to rock the world
http://patch.com/california/palmdesert/palm-desert-celebrates-debut-new-electric-vehicle-charging-stations
Palm Desert CA wisely installs 8 L2 EVSE where drivers want to go
+
EVLN: OR's Oberg wins 1st U.S. e-golf EV w/ $41,400 bid
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-New-Renault-Zoe-EV-ad-video-tp4672635.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 7:06 AM, Paul Dove via EVev@lists.evdl.org wrote: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_restore_nickel_based_batteries Just be aware that you can take *any* battery and charge it hard to get a (temporary) improvement in its amphour capacity. The problem is that it doesn't last. Hybrids in particular are very careful how they charge and discharge their batteries, to maximize life. Hybrid batteries are considered part of the emission control system, so automakers are required to warrant the battery for 100k miles. This won't happen if you use it hard. -- Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple, reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy. -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
paul dove via EV wrote: You all need to read the link I posted. It explains how to recondition Nickle based batteries. It also explains the failure mechanism and why this works. I did read it, Paul. The Cadex info is old science, and is mainly relevant to old-style nicads from decades ago. The Hybridshop data is 99% marketing eyewash, written to sound wonderful. As I said, *any* battery's capacity will temporarily improve just by cycling it deeper than it is usually cycled. But the improvement won't last. If all you're trying to do is eke a little more life out of a pack, that may be sufficient. But you're paying a high price for that small extension. -- Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple, reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy. -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: Alas, any time you fix a declining EV battery by replacing the worst cells or blocks, rather than all of them, you have no way to know what other cells or blocks might turn toes up next week, next month, or next year. That's true. However, it is also true that the one cell that failed may have been infant mortality. It could have died young due to some quality defect or temporary abuse (like excessively discharging the pack, which killed the weakest cell). If you replace it, you can keep right on using the rest of the pack for an extended period. I've done what they describe with lead EV batteries, replacing blocks as they fail. With that situation it's mostly a losing game, because once a couple blocks die, the rest usually aren't far behind. This is often true because the driver and the battery charger don't *know* there's a problem. For example, if one cell shorts, the charger blindly charges the remaining pack to the full voltage that was needed with all cells good. That overcharges the remaining good cells, driving them into an early grave. Coincidentally, this is a NiMH question I'm facing too. I have a 36v 10ah NiMH e-bike battery here that's on its last legs. I've been debating whether to (a) replace just the bum cells and see how it goes, (b) replace all the cells, or (c) gut the battery and try lithium cells instead. If the original cells were high quality, they would all have been well matched. When one of them fails, the rest may not be far behind because they are all so much alike. For example, I've tested Prius nimh modules; even my 10-year-old ones are as alike as peas in a pod. If the pack is made from el-cheapo cells with negligible quality control, you could easily have a few lemons that died young, and are making the whole pack look bad. For example, I tested a set of ten 12v 7ah batteries from an anonymous Chinese manufacturer in a UPS; 4 were junk, and the remaining 6 varied from 1.7ah to 4.2ah. I was able to replace the 5 worst, and keep using the remaining 5. The only way to know for sure is to TEST. Test each cell or battery, and see what you've got. If they are all low in capacity, then it's time to replace the pack. If only one or two are significantly worse than the rest, replace them and keep going. :-) -- Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple, reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy. -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Indy 125 $0pkWh rate 10p-6a + an e-meter installation subsidy
On Nov 17, 2014, at 9:47 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: The electric utility for the norther part of the state, Northern Indiana Public Service Company, offers that zero rate between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. to registered electric-car owners who install a separate meter just for EV charging. I suspect they might be laying the groundwork for V2G in the future. That, and the power likely has no marginal cost to them, making it a particularly inexpensive form of advertisement. Whatever the motivations, it's a good thing they're doing. I could see my own utility, Salt River Project, doing something similar...but I can't see their main competitor, Arizona Public Service, following suit... b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
Lee said: The only way to know for sure is to TEST. Test each cell or battery, and see what you've got. If they are all low in capacity, then it's time to replace the pack. If only one or two are significantly worse than the rest, replace them and keep going. :-) This was my assumption. I will be interested to see if the school or Hybrid Shop goes to this much trouble. If we were to estimate the labor required to test a Prius pack - what would that look like? Would it be any where near sat $1000? I would like to take a critical eye into these visits, but I have never looked close or far at a Prius pack. mike On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: Alas, any time you fix a declining EV battery by replacing the worst cells or blocks, rather than all of them, you have no way to know what other cells or blocks might turn toes up next week, next month, or next year. That's true. However, it is also true that the one cell that failed may have been infant mortality. It could have died young due to some quality defect or temporary abuse (like excessively discharging the pack, which killed the weakest cell). If you replace it, you can keep right on using the rest of the pack for an extended period. I've done what they describe with lead EV batteries, replacing blocks as they fail. With that situation it's mostly a losing game, because once a couple blocks die, the rest usually aren't far behind. This is often true because the driver and the battery charger don't *know* there's a problem. For example, if one cell shorts, the charger blindly charges the remaining pack to the full voltage that was needed with all cells good. That overcharges the remaining good cells, driving them into an early grave. Coincidentally, this is a NiMH question I'm facing too. I have a 36v 10ah NiMH e-bike battery here that's on its last legs. I've been debating whether to (a) replace just the bum cells and see how it goes, (b) replace all the cells, or (c) gut the battery and try lithium cells instead. If the original cells were high quality, they would all have been well matched. When one of them fails, the rest may not be far behind because they are all so much alike. For example, I've tested Prius nimh modules; even my 10-year-old ones are as alike as peas in a pod. If the pack is made from el-cheapo cells with negligible quality control, you could easily have a few lemons that died young, and are making the whole pack look bad. For example, I tested a set of ten 12v 7ah batteries from an anonymous Chinese manufacturer in a UPS; 4 were junk, and the remaining 6 varied from 1.7ah to 4.2ah. I was able to replace the 5 worst, and keep using the remaining 5. The only way to know for sure is to TEST. Test each cell or battery, and see what you've got. If they are all low in capacity, then it's time to replace the pack. If only one or two are significantly worse than the rest, replace them and keep going. :-) -- Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple, reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy. -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/fb959645/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/575b7df9/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
On 17 Nov 2014 at 8:37, paul dove via EV wrote: You all need to read the link I posted. It explains how to recondition Nickle based batteries. It also explains the failure mechanism and why this works. I did read that page. It may be accurate - I'm not an electrochemist - but it reminds me of the woo-woo that lead battery pulse charging advocates use to explain why their chargers (like all other chargers!) temporarily improve battery capacity. That said, though I don't know about the physics of it, Saft for one does recommend re-conditioning their large flooded cells when they have declined in capacity. Note that I hyphenated re-conditioning. Large NiCd cells and monoblocks, as used in some EVs, aircraft, and locomotives, are normally shipped uncharged. When they're installed, they require a procedure callled a commissioning or conditioning charge. (For the small cells you get in and for portable gadgets, this is done at the factory.) For this, Saft specifies a 14 hour 0.1C constant current charge. If you do the math, you see that this is essentially a 40% overcharge. (FWIW, Saft recommends a 20% overcharge on every normal charging cycle. This is for their non-recombinant open cells, not the MR blocks.) Re-conditioning is (duh) just repeating this conditioning process. Again going from Saft's instructions, the block or battery is discharged at a controlled low rate (Saft says 0.2C) to below 1.0 volts per cell ( 5v for a 6v nominal monoblock). Once flat, the battery is given a fresh conditioning charge. Saft says that for re-conditioning you can use 0.2C for 7 hours, instead of 0.1C for 14 hours, if you're short on time. One thing I should point out. Re-conditioning as the term is used in NiCd (and possibly NiMH) battery maintenance is not what many car folks think of as reconditioning. That is, what these guys are doing to a NiMH battery for $1000+ is not really similar to having a shop rebuild your ICEV's alternator. That rebuilt alternator will probably run about as long as a new one would, but your re-conditioned NiCd or NiMH battery almost certainly won't work as well or as long as a new one. The Hybrid Shop say that they replace under-performing blocks. I wonder whether they use new or used modules for replacements. I also wonder how well re-conditioning works with sealed cells, as opposed to open (flooded) ones. I own a Maha NiMH AA-cell charger that claims to do a re-conditioning cycle. I admit I haven't used that cycle frequently, but I have yet to see it significantly improve any of my older NiMH cells' capacity. Another little wrinkle here. IIRC, Toyota's onboard software carries out a form of re-conditioning and/or equalization automatically on their hybrid batteries when the computer senses a loss of capacity. I haven't heard that this kind of mini-re-conditioning is done automatically on the (small number of) true Toyota EVs such as the RAV4-EVs. Maybe someone else knows. As to whether Ford's software does such a quickie tweak, I don't know that either, but you might want to find out. If I'm not mistaken, for their early Escape hybrid, Ford bought the design (and possibly the hardware) from Toyota. It was the design that Toyota had used in the first generation Prius, not the second generation. Hope this helps. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/b3abf72d/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
What I really want to guess is - do we think they can actually do a good job of reconditioning a Pius pack for $1500? What if there were some problems with the pack? I am not trying to learn how to do it in a home situation (maybe later), this is about - is it likely the ARD system actually does good work? You can see my problem - I don't know what good work would look like for a Prius Pack. Supposing a pack that is needing a lot of work. Then you have testing, probably some tear down and RR of cells. I don't know what is in a Prius pack - is there a charger? BMS? All that is handled by the car's electrical system? Do we know how much Prius NiMH cells cost? Used ones? New? A whole new pack? On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Michael Ross wrote: Here is one test unit available for Prius packs: http://www.go2hev.com/hybrid-vehicle-battery-testing-and- analysis-kit.html The maker Automotive Research Design (what an instructive name) does more than just produce this test unit - they do a lot of training of mechanics by various means. http://www.go2hev.com/home.html OEM cell test equipment seems to come from ARBIN http://www.arbin.com/ If you got the dough, then it's a go. But this tends to be expensive commercial equipment and training for professionals that will do this for a living. Lee said: The only way to know for sure is to TEST. Test each cell or battery, and see what you've got. This was my assumption. I will be interested to see if the school or Hybrid Shop goes to this much trouble. Yes, this is a concern. I notice that the go2hev.com unit says it spends 20 *seconds* doing the power test, and the graphs say the amphour test is similarly brief. Now if you're in a shop and working by the hour, you want the quickest possible test, regardless of its accuracy. But I have to wonder how accurate the data that you get from such a short test will be. If we were to estimate the labor required to test a Prius pack - what would that look like? Would it be any where near sat $1000? A typical auto repair shop is likely to charge $100/hour. At that rate, $1000 is about 10 hours of work. They have to pay for all that equipment and testing, right? It can obviously be done far cheaper yourself, if you're willing to invest your time and a few dollars for simple equipment. A voltmeter, some light bulbs for a load, a commercial battery charger, a clock, and a clipboard are sufficient for basic testing. That's what I used to do. I learned a *lot* about batteries this way! Or, you can buy a simple battery tester/cycler, intended for the R/C model cars and planes. For example, I have a Model Rectifier Corp. Super Brain 989. It tests lead-acid, nicad, nimh, or lithium cells or batteries up to about 24v and 20ah capacity. Cheap (and cheaply made), but it works adequately for hobby use. There are many similar units. Or, you can build my Battery Balancer (or something like it -- the plans are open source and on the web). It does what any battery tester has to do: Select a battery or module, charge it under known conditions, discharge it under known conditions, compare and record the results. I've been building and refining it for over 15 years! It's at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/ balancer.htm -- Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats. -- Howard Aiken -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/a9e7b232/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/b3ab f72d/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
Indeed - EV converters that chose to use NiCd (especially the flooded variant such as the ubiquitous Saft BB-600) found that capacity will decline relatively rapidly while keeping the charge within 100-0% so regularly they needed to completely discharge the pack (start with driving it for their longest trip and then continue discharging, for example with the heater) Then they needed to charge 140% capacity which essentially restored all previous lost capacity. Prius senses balance within its pack (it monitors every second connection between the 7.2V modules) and if they are out of balance, it will first attempt a looong slow overcharge. You will notice this while driving that the engine will not shut of for several hours (can be split over several trips) so the car can do that 140% commissioning charge (it never discharges since the pack is needed to start the car and you cannot predict when the owner will turn it off). Once that is attempted (probably more than once) and still unbalance is found in subsequent normal use, the Prius will throw an error and request service because its pack is on the way out (or a module is bad). Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator via EV Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 12:03 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning On 17 Nov 2014 at 8:37, paul dove via EV wrote: You all need to read the link I posted. It explains how to recondition Nickle based batteries. It also explains the failure mechanism and why this works. I did read that page. It may be accurate - I'm not an electrochemist - but it reminds me of the woo-woo that lead battery pulse charging advocates use to explain why their chargers (like all other chargers!) temporarily improve battery capacity. That said, though I don't know about the physics of it, Saft for one does recommend re-conditioning their large flooded cells when they have declined in capacity. Note that I hyphenated re-conditioning. Large NiCd cells and monoblocks, as used in some EVs, aircraft, and locomotives, are normally shipped uncharged. When they're installed, they require a procedure callled a commissioning or conditioning charge. (For the small cells you get in and for portable gadgets, this is done at the factory.) For this, Saft specifies a 14 hour 0.1C constant current charge. If you do the math, you see that this is essentially a 40% overcharge. (FWIW, Saft recommends a 20% overcharge on every normal charging cycle. This is for their non-recombinant open cells, not the MR blocks.) Re-conditioning is (duh) just repeating this conditioning process. Again going from Saft's instructions, the block or battery is discharged at a controlled low rate (Saft says 0.2C) to below 1.0 volts per cell ( 5v for a 6v nominal monoblock). Once flat, the battery is given a fresh conditioning charge. Saft says that for re-conditioning you can use 0.2C for 7 hours, instead of 0.1C for 14 hours, if you're short on time. One thing I should point out. Re-conditioning as the term is used in NiCd (and possibly NiMH) battery maintenance is not what many car folks think of as reconditioning. That is, what these guys are doing to a NiMH battery for $1000+ is not really similar to having a shop rebuild your ICEV's alternator. That rebuilt alternator will probably run about as long as a new one would, but your re-conditioned NiCd or NiMH battery almost certainly won't work as well or as long as a new one. The Hybrid Shop say that they replace under-performing blocks. I wonder whether they use new or used modules for replacements. I also wonder how well re-conditioning works with sealed cells, as opposed to open (flooded) ones. I own a Maha NiMH AA-cell charger that claims to do a re-conditioning cycle. I admit I haven't used that cycle frequently, but I have yet to see it significantly improve any of my older NiMH cells' capacity. Another little wrinkle here. IIRC, Toyota's onboard software carries out a form of re-conditioning and/or equalization automatically on their hybrid batteries when the computer senses a loss of capacity. I haven't heard that this kind of mini-re-conditioning is done automatically on the (small number of) true Toyota EVs such as the RAV4-EVs. Maybe someone else knows. As to whether Ford's software does such a quickie tweak, I don't know that either, but you might want to find out. If I'm not mistaken, for their early Escape hybrid, Ford bought the design (and possibly the hardware) from Toyota. It was the design that Toyota had used in the first generation Prius, not the second generation. Hope this helps. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
On Nov 17, 2014, at 1:28 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Or, you can build my Battery Balancer (or something like it -- the plans are open source and on the web). It does what any battery tester has to do: Select a battery or module, charge it under known conditions, discharge it under known conditions, compare and record the results. I've been building and refining it for over 15 years! It's at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/balancer.htm I might be a bit confused by the terminology you're using. Is that not a BMS, a Battery Management System? Seems to me like it might be rather more sophisticated than many of the ones I've looked at, but it looks like they're both doing the same thing. ...and, if so, yours is definitely on the short list for consideration when I get to that stage of the project b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hybrid battery reconditioning
Ben, There are probably no definitive limits to either battery balancer or BMS. To me a BMS also manages charge and discharge cut off, as well as balancing. I suppose it could also have a built in charger, but that is not what I think when someone says, that there BMS. There are notification and warning functions, value readouts, etc. that could also be in a system. A battery balancer that does none of these other things is still a battery balancer to me, but wouldn't be a BMS. There should probably be a cell balancer, and BMS. But we call a series of batteries a battery just to be imprecise. On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Nov 17, 2014, at 1:28 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Or, you can build my Battery Balancer (or something like it -- the plans are open source and on the web). It does what any battery tester has to do: Select a battery or module, charge it under known conditions, discharge it under known conditions, compare and record the results. I've been building and refining it for over 15 years! It's at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/balancer.htm I might be a bit confused by the terminology you're using. Is that not a BMS, a Battery Management System? Seems to me like it might be rather more sophisticated than many of the ones I've looked at, but it looks like they're both doing the same thing. ...and, if so, yours is definitely on the short list for consideration when I get to that stage of the project b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141117/e2e2999c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Indy 125 $0pkWh rate 10p-6a + an e-meter installation subsidy
Near Wash DC, the local utility offered 3.5 cent/kWh for a separately metered EV charging circuit (off peak). But that was an unloaded quote. Add in the other charges of about 4c per kWh and you are up to abou 7.5c overall. A great deal considering the normal loaded rate is about 14 c/kwh. Bob -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 1:32 PM To: brucedp5; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Indy 125 $0pkWh rate 10p-6a + an e-meter installation subsidy On Nov 17, 2014, at 9:47 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: The electric utility for the norther part of the state, Northern Indiana Public Service Company, offers that zero rate between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. to registered electric-car owners who install a separate meter just for EV charging. I suspect they might be laying the groundwork for V2G in the future. That, and the power likely has no marginal cost to them, making it a particularly inexpensive form of advertisement. Whatever the motivations, it's a good thing they're doing. I could see my own utility, Salt River Project, doing something similar...but I can't see their main competitor, Arizona Public Service, following suit... b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
