[EVDL] EVLN: CA US Air Force Base's 42 EV fleet rollout V2G roll-call
http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/554343/af-tests-first-all-electric-vehicle-fleet-in-california.aspx AF tests first all-electric vehicle fleet in California November 14, 2014 [images / Sarah Corrice http://media.dma.mil/2014/Nov/14/2000953074/-1/-1/0/141031-F-HW403-055.JPG Staff Sgt Rey Sedantes (left), receives instruction on how to operate the Princeton bidirectional electric vehicle charging stations from vehicle operations contractor, Oscar Machado, right, during a training demo Oct. 31, 2014, in El Segundo, Calif. The charging stations will charge the electric vehicles directly from the local utility grid enabling Los Angeles Air Force Base personnel to utilize the electric vehicles as transportation within the base. When called-upon, and when connected to the electric vehicle, the bidirectional charging station will switch power flow directions in order to support vehicle-to-grid energy request by discharging the electric vehicle’s onboard battery. Sedantes is with the 61st Civil Engineering and Logistics Squadron. (U.S. Air Force photo/Sarah Corrice) http://media.dma.mil/2014/Nov/14/2000953076/-1/-1/0/141031-F-HW403-047.JPG Airmen from Los Angeles Air Force Base learn how to use charging equipment for the base's new electric vehicle fleet during a training demo Oct. 31, 2014, in El Segundo, Calif. When not in use, the vehicle's batteries can switch charging direction and feed their energy back to the base's power grid. (U.S. Air Force photo/Sarah Corrice) http://media.dma.mil/2014/Nov/14/2000953132/-1/-1/0/141114-F-HW403-024.JPG Miranda Ballentine greets vendors during the unveiling of the first federal facility to replace its entire general-purpose fleet with plug-in electric vehicles Nov. 14, 2014, at Los Angeles Air Force Base in El Segundo, Calif. The base's electric vehicle fleet, consisting of 42 vehicles, including sedans, pick-up trucks and mini vans, of which 36 will be vehicle-to-grid capable, is the largest operational V2G demonstration in the world. Ballentine is the assistant secretary of the Air Force for installations, environment and energy. (U.S. Air Force photo/Sarah Corrice) http://media.dma.mil/2014/Nov/14/2000953133/-1/-1/0/141114-F-HW403-065.JPG ] WASHINGTON (AFNS) -- Air Force officials unveiled the Department of Defense’s first non-tactical vehicle fleet composed entirely of plug-in electric vehicles, Nov. 14, at Los Angeles Air Force Base, California. The rollout of the 42-vehicle fleet marks a milestone in the DOD’s demonstration of emerging technology and the vehicles will serve as a resource to the electrical grid when they’re not being driven. “Everything we do to fly, fight and win requires energy, whether it’s aviation fuel for our aircraft or power to run the bases that support them,” said Secretary of the Air Force Deborah Lee James. “This vehicle-to-grid pilot is a great example of how Airmen are driving the Air Force forward and finding new and innovative ways to make every dollar count.” The PEV fleet includes both electric and hybrid vehicles ranging from sedans to trucks and a 12-passenger van. The vehicles have the capability to direct power both to and from the electrical grid when they’re not being driven, known as vehicle-to-grid technology. Unique charging stations have been installed on Los Angeles AFB to support the vehicles’ V2G capability. The V2G technology enables the vehicles to provide more than 700 kilowatts of power to the grid, sufficient power for more than 140 American homes. The vehicles also enhance the power grid’s reliability and security by balancing demand against supply without having to use reserves or standby generators. California energy providers and regulators worked closely with the Air Force on safety and performance testing as well as technical and regulatory aspects of launching the fleet. “We absolutely couldn’t have done this without our federal, state and private partners,” said Miranda Ballentine, the assistant secretary of the Air Force for installations, environment and energy. “The shared investment and commitment by our partners illustrates that innovations such as this have value not only to the Air Force and Department of Defense, but to the nation as a whole.” The Air Force plans to expand the V2G demonstration to Joint Base Andrews, Maryland, and Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, New Jersey. The service will also continue to look for additional capabilities, such as utilizing used batteries as a form of on-base energy storage. “The forward thinking of the Air Force promises to be an important signal to the market to move this technology into the mainstream,” said William Kempton, the director of the University of Delaware’s Center for Carbon-free Power Integration. “By requesting V2G-capable trucks and cars from several vehicle manufacturers, placed in bases in several states, the Air Force has helped to stimulate demand from both automotive suppliers and the electric
[EVDL] EVLN: Jaguar Electric F-Type, Trademark Applied Target= Tesla!
% ? Will it be Electric or Electrified ? %
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/jaguar-building-electric-f-type-200020994.html
Is Jaguar Building an Electric F-Type?
By Jeff Perez [20141115]
[image
http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/cms/autos/Boldride/jaguar_f-type_3.jpg
jaguar f-type electric photo
http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/cms/autos/Boldride/jaguar_f-type_r_coupe_awd_3.jpg
jaguar f-type r coupe awd EV photp
http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/cms/autos/Boldride/jaguar_f-type.jpg
jaguar f-type electric vehicle photo
]
Auto journalists make it a habit of every so often combing through the
utterly boring hell-scape that are patent applications for scoops on new
cars. Most of the time it yields no results, but every now and then, you
come across something interesting. For instance, finding out that Jaguar
might be building an EV version of the F-Type.
In the trademark application, the company applies for the name “EV-Type”
which very much hints at a full electric drivetrain Jaguar. While the
application doesn’t specify which model would be getting this new
designation, the fact that the application uses the moniker “Type” strongly
pushes towards an all-electric F-Type.
The F-Type was already based on the Jaguar C-X16 Concept, which used a
hybrid electric drive train. So an EV F-Type isn’t that far out of the realm
of where Jaguar was originally going. And considering the fact that Jaguar
desperately needs to help its emissions and fuel consumption figures across
the range, an EV-Type and an electric power unit makes sense.
If actually given the green light, an all-electric F-Type would be a pretty
fantastic addition to the F-Type lineup. Just think about all that sweet,
sweet torque.
For now, all we have to go on are the trademark applications, and like many
applications out there, most go unused. An EV F-Type may just not make
enough business sense for the company to pull the trigger. But with both an
AWD and a manual transmission version getting ready to see production, an EV
model might not be outside the realm of possibilities ...
[© autos.yahoo.com]
...
http://gas2.org/2014/11/14/jaguar-ev-type-trademarked-in-europe-us/
Jaguar “EV-Type” Trademarked In Europe, US
[2014/11/14]
...
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/jaguar-ev-type-trademark-applied-watch-out-tesla-88924.html
Jaguar EV-Type Trademark Applied, Watch Out Tesla!
by Gabriel Brindusescu 14th November 2014
http://www.carxmotor.com/2014/11/16/jaguar-registers-ev-type-moniker-in-europe-and-united-states/
Jaguar registers EV-Type moniker in Europe and United States
By Anthony D. Miller Nov 16, 2014 Autoguide.com
Since Jaguar just trademarked the EV-Type name, don’t expect a car with
this designation to come out in the near future.
[image] Jaguar logo
We do not know what we do not know when, but it seems something electric or
hybrid prepared by Jaguar, after it became known that registered the name
“EV-Type” in Europe and USA.
With some exceptions, the British company accompanies any letter with
“-Type” when it comes to a sport model, so the EV-Type will probably have
sports orientation. Of course, we do not know at this point if it is
electric / hybrid version of an already existing model ...
Anyway, the Jaguar had presented C-X16 concept in Frankfurt Motor Show 2011.
The C-X16 using a hybrid powertrain consisting of a V6 that yield 380 horses
and an electric motor with 95 extra, built-in 8-speed box. The engine was
transferred unaltered under F-Type, but we are not able to know if the
platform F-Type can accept motor.
The Jaguar reveals nothing on the matter, so we have to wait …
[© carxmotor.com]
...
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/60237/jaguar-trademarks-ev-type-new-model-on-the-way
Jaguar Trademarks ‘EV-Type’, New Model On The Way?
Trevor Collett | Nov 15, 2014
...
http://www.torquenews.com/3477/jaguar-electric-car-building-ev
Is Jaguar going to build an electric car?
By Joseph Scott 2014-11-17
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Chevy Spark EV 2nd-Yr Named Most Fuel-Efficient 119 MPGe
http://koreabizwire.com/korean-rd-organization-develops-driverless-vehicle/23681
AIoCT/SeoulU/Gyeonggi.gov.kr's Driverless 1seater pEV/e-transport
http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/powerstream-goes-public-with-high-speed-ev-charging-1966404.htm
PowerStream Goes Public with High-Speed L3 EVSE in Vaughan.ca
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EVLN: CA US Air Force Base's 42 EV fleet rollout V2G roll-call
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[EVDL] Cruser-Sport nEV Sexy dune-buggy+beverage-cart love-child
'sub-Tesla toaster nEVs are not intended to be sexy' http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20141112-fast-times-in-the-slow-lane The Cruser Sport is not your grandfather’s golf cart David K Gibson 12 November 2014 [image http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/624_351/images/live/p0/2b/pn/p02bpn52.jpg Ecocruise Cruser Sport(Ecocruise Vehicles) http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/624_351/images/live/p0/2b/pn/p02bpn4k.jpg http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/624_351/images/live/p0/2b/pn/p02bpn4g.jpg http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/624_351/images/live/p0/2b/pn/p02bpn4x.jpg http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/624_351/images/live/p0/2b/pn/p02bpn4q.jpg ] In the US, so-called Neighborhood Electric Vehicles – those sub-Tesla toasters used by maintenance crews on corporate campuses and people who live in “active adult communities” – are not intended to be sexy beasts. Depending on the region in which they are registered, NEVs are limited by law (and usually, by power output) to speeds below 25mph or 35mph. The best of them resemble earnest attempts at space capsules, the worst evoke street-legal golf carts (and often because they are, quite simply, street-legal golf carts). But not the Cruser Sport. This forthcoming model from Ecocruise, a startup based in the Pacific northwest US state of Washington, sooner evokes a dune buggy than a municipal-course beverage cart. When you consider its pedigree, that makes a lot of sense. Ecocruise is the brainchild of Steve Leighty, a veteran of the off-road motorsports industry, having founded Kasea Motorsports in the 1990s. Beginning by importing Chinese scooters, Leighty realised he could design and build sportier vehicles – ATVs, dirt bikes and motorcycles – himself, and ship the prototypes to China, Korea and Taiwan to be mass produced; the production versions were then sold back to customers in the US. Business prospered, but by 2004 Leighty was ready for a new challenge, and turned his attention to electric mobility. The two-seater Cruser Sport is the first Ecocruise model to hit the streets, and it is anything but boxy, with a swooping carbon fibre body over exposed tubular steel, plus a covered rear hatch and T-tops. Exposed suspension and 14in aluminium wheels impart a beefy stance, and the bucket seats reinforce the off-road lineage. Safety – hardly an afterthought, even for low-speed neighbourhood electrics – comes in the form of US Department of Transportation-approved safety glass and seatbelts, antilock brakes and a two year bumper-to-bumper warranty and three-year warranty on the lithium-ion batteries. Leighty claims that the topmost battery package will take the Cruser Sport up to 60 miles on a charge. The car will retail for $8,500 to $11,900 in the US, depending on motor and battery options, when deliveries commence in January 2015. Shortly thereafter the company plans to release the more conventional one-seater EZIP-4 for around $3,800. A line of service and utility vehicles, including electric scooters, will follow. Distribution in the US is managed through a group of roughly 50 independent retailers, while in Europe, an expected partnership with UK’s Urban Mover will provide a readymade dealer network. And lest the putter-perfecting neighbourhood-electric user be denied, Cruser Sports will soon be available in golf-cart form, too. [© bbc.com] http://www.ecocruise.com/#!nevs-crusersport/cr06 CRUSER SPORT - Coming January 2015 Introducing our BRAND NEW Cruser Sport, a street legal, DOT approved NEV. Cruser Sport offers an advanced multitude of efficiency, technology, and safety features for a fully integrated drive. Engineered with a full carbon fiber body for maximum efficiency and safety. The Cruser Sport comes standard with body contouring racing inspired bucket seats for maximum driver and passenger comfort. Efficient. Specifications Mechanical Lifepo4 72v 62AH battery 5kW brushless DC motor 4-wheel disc brakes Suspension, front, dual A arm Suspension, rear swing arm Max speed 25/35 mph or 40/56 km/h depending on local state regulations Exterior Carbon fiber body DOT approved safety glass for front and rear windshield 14 aluminum wheels Removable T-Top Interior AM/FM radio, CD player optional 2 speaker audio system Premium driver and passenger bucket seats Manual seat adjusters, driver and passenger Modular dash with glove compartment storage Convenience Instrumentation, digital LCD screen Charge cord, 120-volt, portable Push button transmission Covered rear storage with hydraulic lift assist Single windshield wiper Removable T-Tops Safety Safety belts, 3 point DOT approved safety glass for front and rear windshield Anti-lock brake system Efficiency Battery Range 35/60mi or 56/97km per charge depending on battery pack option Battery density 160W/kg Advanced controller
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 10:58 PM, Chris Meier m...@comcast.net wrote: Uber? Lyft? Have them pick it up for you, and you retain that hour... As in my case, and that of another poster, sometimes you really have to be there. Quickly. Chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141119/bd0d2c8a/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
A person's viewpoint on this and many other things depends on how risk averse s/he is, and we all tend to think our level of risk aversion is just about right and any that is quite different is unreasonable. We are also very good at self-justifying our position by concocting different hypothetical scenarios which support it and rejecting as unreasonable those that don't, regardless of our position. I don't think there is any reasonable or unreasonable position here...everyone has their own comfort level. I expect your friend would not take a job which requires him to travel overseas frequently, but others think nothing of it. There is a wide spectrum, from people who rarely venture outside their homes to those who have no home and wander the world seeking adventure. Our arguments for which is right is mainly to reassure ourselves that our world view is correct. We aren't likely to convince others that their position on this is wrong. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-Hand-wringing-EV-angst-is-not-a-real-problem-tp4672658p4672675.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
On Nov 18, 2014, at 11:24 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: If his colleague would either have asked anyone at that 1-day seminar to borrow the car for a few hours or he would have called a cab, he would have been with his wife as quickly as when his EV would have been fully charged or if he had taken a gasser for the day. Surprised nobody else has brought it up...but, if your boss requires you to have certain equipment to do a job, either the boss supplies the equipment or stipulates it as part of the terms of employment and compensates you accordingly. If the job requires a different vehicle from the one you own, or if, for whatever reason, you don't want to use that vehicle in the service of the job, it's up to the boss to supply you with proper equipment. I realize that, here in America, we're free to generously support our bosses and their financial interests from our own personal resources, and our bosses, in turn, are free to terminate the employment of those who don't properly pony up these types of bribes on demand, but that should be a different conversation. Either the company can afford to supply whatever vehicles are necessary to support this seminar, or their finances are so dire and / or mismanaged that they're not even going to be able to make payroll soon. Whether those vehicles are electric or gas-powered or what-not is the company's problem, though I'm sure we could help them figure out which electric vehicles should be on the short list for consideration. Cheers, b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
On Nov 19, 2014, at 7:27 AM, tomw via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: A person's viewpoint on this and many other things depends on how risk averse s/he is, and we all tend to think our level of risk aversion is just about right and any that is quite different is unreasonable. Range anxiety, I think, is even more governed by typical and expected use cases. If you have a five mile commute and the next city is thirty miles away and you can't imagine needing to go there on a whim, range anxiety isn't going to exist even with a vehicle with only 50 miles of range. If you live (as I do) in the Phoenix metro area, a vehicle with an 80-mile EPA range probably won't even be able to make it from Apache Junction (the city on the eastern edge of the Valley) to Buckeye (on the western edge) on a single charge. Risk aversion is going to be secondary to that. Maybe you live in the small town and you're not very risk averse, so a 20-mile range seems luxurious; maybe you live in the small town and you _are_ risk averse and that 50-mile range is what it takes to calm your fears. But, no matter how risk averse you are or aren't, if you live in Surprise and work in downtown Phoenix and can't plug in (a perfect description of another friend of mine), that 50-mile car isn't even going to get you all the way home. This same friend also sometimes has to go to Mesa as part of the job, and _that_ round trip is itself outside of even the Leaf's EPA range. She'd probably honestly need a 200-mile range just to get to the same level of lack of range anxiety as that person in the small town would have with a 20-mile range. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
Here's another point of view. Range anxiety doesn't so much come from the range of the vehicle but the ability to charge. Regardless of the range, at some point you will have to charge. If such places are easy to come by and charging doesn't take long, it's not a big deal. For example, if you need to drive across Phoenix and there are superchargers every 5 miles, you wouldn't think twice about running out of energy. At some point, you'd simply look at your gauge and say, I think I should stop and charge. Lo and behold, you'd spot a charge station, pull in, and charge. Charging is still in its naissance. The current build out of level 3 quick chargers gives a distorted impression. There seem to be plenty of level 3's in urban areas but only a sparse thread between cities. Aside from Tesla, the production EVs on the road today may not be able to make it between the sparsely located charge stations. On top of that, 20-30 minutes to charge is hardly convenient. Thus, people assume they need to make their trip without stopping to charge, resulting in range anxiety. A few years ago, everyone was talking about 100 miles per charge as the magic number; then EVs would really be practical. Well, we more-or-less reached that. Are they successful? I would say yes - they are now practical in urban environments for a very large number of people. The next magic number seems to be 200 miles. I think that number, combined with faster level 3 charging, will virtually eliminate range anxiety. You'll be able to go whereever and charge if you need to. But this only works if there are ample level 3 stations, and fast ones, on your rote. My conclusion is that range anxiety comes more from the lack of adequate charging facilities, not from the range of the vehicle. Peri -- Original Message -- From: Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: tomw tomofreno2...@yahoo.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 19-Nov-14 7:08:04 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem On Nov 19, 2014, at 7:27 AM, tomw via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: A person's viewpoint on this and many other things depends on how risk averse s/he is, and we all tend to think our level of risk aversion is just about right and any that is quite different is unreasonable. Range anxiety, I think, is even more governed by typical and expected use cases. If you have a five mile commute and the next city is thirty miles away and you can't imagine needing to go there on a whim, range anxiety isn't going to exist even with a vehicle with only 50 miles of range. If you live (as I do) in the Phoenix metro area, a vehicle with an 80-mile EPA range probably won't even be able to make it from Apache Junction (the city on the eastern edge of the Valley) to Buckeye (on the western edge) on a single charge. Risk aversion is going to be secondary to that. Maybe you live in the small town and you're not very risk averse, so a 20-mile range seems luxurious; maybe you live in the small town and you _are_ risk averse and that 50-mile range is what it takes to calm your fears. But, no matter how risk averse you are or aren't, if you live in Surprise and work in downtown Phoenix and can't plug in (a perfect description of another friend of mine), that 50-mile car isn't even going to get you all the way home. This same friend also sometimes has to go to Mesa as part of the job, and _that_ round trip is itself outside of even the Leaf's EPA range. She'd probably honestly need a 200-mile range just to get to the same level of lack of range anxiety as that person in the small town would have with a 20-mile range. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Here's another point of view. My conclusion is that range anxiety comes more from the lack of adequate charging facilities, not from the range of the vehicle. Peri If my experience with my cell phone is anything to base it on, I'd say so I know that the battery only lasts 8 or 10 hours if I'm using it a lot. But if I bring my charger, so what I can charge it in the car or at work, so it's fine. If I forget the charger, all of a sudden I'm all worried about whether it'll still work at the end of the day and whether I'll be communicationless (though, 10 years ago, I didn't even own a cell phone and seemed to survive fine). -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141119/dde67c4a/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] again...range
most of the people that I build EVs for know exactly how far they need to go..
They own more than 1 car !! if you travel to work and its 15 miles each way,
why in hell do you need a EV with 250 mile range???
If you want range stupidity a 2015 BMW. M-6.{borrowed money wasted} that cost
112.000$ It get 240 miles each tank,. and runs on hy test gas only ..but
naturally that fool can afford
it
If I need to go any where where my car exceeds my range, I take the wifes
car,,or rent a car . I have never been concerned about gas prices, if you need
gas, you buy it, or walk or..
have a EV bulit or go buy on ..just like the great Tail gate bebate here, it is
bing beat to death ...If you know your EV will go 50,60,80 100 miles, why in
hell push that extra 3 miles???
but you probably have AAA for the tows
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:32 AM, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Range anxiety doesn't so much come from the range of the vehicle but the ability to charge. That's a good point. You can argue all day about the relative merits of at-home and on-the-go charging, but the fact remains that American culture is largely built around on-the-go charging. It's what people know and how they think. To replicate all hypothetical (not common) driving scenarios, at-home charging would need to be able to provide enough range for a full day of non-stop freeway driving -- maybe even 600 miles or even more. Anything less than that, and _somebody_ is _sometimes_ going to need to either rapidly charge at some random point along the way or else use something that's powered by gasoline. Again, debates over whether it's worth it to retain the capacity for these sorts of options that are rarely and maybe never used, the viability of using alternates, and all the rest...in many ways, it's irrelevant. For many Americans, this is what they already have, and they think we're crazy for suggesting that they should pay more (up front) for less. The initial challenge is to either match what they already have (fast charging stations nearly as ubiquitous as gas stations) or offer them something so superior in exchange that it more than makes up for the perceived loss. Though Americans like to bitch about gas prices, for most people they're only a nuisance, and not worth the reduced range. Either gas prices will have to get worse or the _purchase_ price of EVs will have to reach parity with ICEs for people to even _consider_ an EV. Remember: individuals rarely, if ever, do lifetime cost analyses. Give them a choice between a car with a sticker price of $20,000 that will burn $10,000 worth of gas over five years and a car that costs $27,000 but only uses $1,000 worth of electricity over that same five year period, and they'll choose the $20,000 car every time as being seven thousand dollars cheaper, even though it costs two thousand dollars more. Next up is the convenience of charging at home overnight and starting each day with a full tank rather than having to stop somewhere for gas. That's nice a nice feature, but, for most people, on the level of having the proper number of cup holders. Closely related is the much reduced need for maintenance...but cars are black boxes that people already don't understand, and most of the things that break have nothing to do with the drivetrain. The _only_ thing that people _actually_ get excited about that electric vehicles offer that's _superior_ to their gas counterparts...is performance. Y'all know it as the EV grin. And that's something that really could sell an awful lot of EVs to an awful lot of people who otherwise would think of them as a bad joke. As I keep writing, if Ford made an electric version of the Mustang and gave it a properly-sized motor, and if they marketed it as the fastest-accelerating production Mustang in history, they likely wouldn't be able to make them fast enough, _even_with_ a Leaf-style maximum range and a premium sticker price. Cheers, b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
On 11/19/2014 10:59 AM, Ben Goren via EV wrote: On Nov 19, 2014, at 8:32 AM, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Range anxiety doesn't so much come from the range of the vehicle but the ability to charge. That's a good point. You can argue all day about the relative merits of at-home and on-the-go charging, but the fact remains that American culture is largely built around on-the-go charging. It's what people know and how they think. I'm not sure of that. I don't think EVs are ubiquitous enough to have become part of the American culture. Of course that's how gas cars work and some (many?) people have trouble imagining a world where they don't have to stop to fill up. [...] Next up is the convenience of charging at home overnight and starting each day with a full tank rather than having to stop somewhere for gas. That's nice a nice feature, but, for most people, on the level of having the proper number of cup holders. For me, that realization was the Ah-ha! moment I needed. When I'm evangelizing I ask people to imagine how big their gas tank would need to be if the car was filled by elves while they slept. Many people have thought about it and said 2 or 3 gallons. 60-90 miles. Personally I have 2 EVs and a plug-in hybrid now and with one exception I've only ever charged them at home. I'll tell you the exception in the next paragraph. Closely related is the much reduced need for maintenance...but cars are black boxes that people already don't understand, and most of the things that break have nothing to do with the drivetrain. New cars are remarkably reliable so mostly its the difference in scheduled maintenance. Even so, my Ford C-Max Energi has scheduled maintenance every 10,000 miles. The Smart ED I'm leasing has scheduled maintenance very 10,000 miles too. When I get there I'll let you know which was more expensive. It's 25 miles to the Smart dealer from my house and in the winter the range on the Smart is about 45 miles (75 in summer). So when I bring the car there for service in the cold their charge stations need to be working or the car is stuck there. That's my no-at-home charging exception. Personally I think plug-in hybrids like the Volt and my C-Max are probably the ideal vehicle to introduce people to EVs. Complexity aside, they may be the ideal vehicle for most people. I have a 20 mile round trip to work. The C-Max does about 25 miles electric in the summer (14 in winter) so most of my driving is pure electric. I put gas in the thing every 3 months or so and I hate it. I got the Smart because I got annoyed that the C-Max wasn't making the round trip as a pure EV in the winter (and because it was so inexpensive!). But I have the choice of either depending on where I need to go that day. A Volt with its 38 mile range would probably spend 95% of its time as an EV in my house. But there's no range anxiety. Well there is as anyone who owns a PHEV can tell you. It's reverse range anxiety. How far can I go before the damn gas engine kicks in? --Rick ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
I built mine 2 years ago. The only time I charged it anywhere besides my garage was when I towed it to EVCON. It's mostly a silly argument and most chargers around cities are never used. From: Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: tomw tomofreno2...@yahoo.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem On Nov 19, 2014, at 7:27 AM, tomw via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: A person's viewpoint on this and many other things depends on how risk averse s/he is, and we all tend to think our level of risk aversion is just about right and any that is quite different is unreasonable. Range anxiety, I think, is even more governed by typical and expected use cases. If you have a five mile commute and the next city is thirty miles away and you can't imagine needing to go there on a whim, range anxiety isn't going to exist even with a vehicle with only 50 miles of range. If you live (as I do) in the Phoenix metro area, a vehicle with an 80-mile EPA range probably won't even be able to make it from Apache Junction (the city on the eastern edge of the Valley) to Buckeye (on the western edge) on a single charge. Risk aversion is going to be secondary to that. Maybe you live in the small town and you're not very risk averse, so a 20-mile range seems luxurious; maybe you live in the small town and you _are_ risk averse and that 50-mile range is what it takes to calm your fears. But, no matter how risk averse you are or aren't, if you live in Surprise and work in downtown Phoenix and can't plug in (a perfect description of another friend of mine), that 50-mile car isn't even going to get you all the way home. This same friend also sometimes has to go to Mesa as part of the job, and _that_ round trip is itself outside of even the Leaf's EPA range. She'd probably honestly need a 200-mile range just to get to the same level of lack of range anxiety as that person in the small town would have with a 20-mile range. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141119/90b83eec/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
You certainly can't rely on public chargers, or at least I haven't had the nerve to yet... I only charge at work or home. Regards, Stephen On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 8:38 AM, paul dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I built mine 2 years ago. The only time I charged it anywhere besides my garage was when I towed it to EVCON. It's mostly a silly argument and most chargers around cities are never used. From: Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: tomw tomofreno2...@yahoo.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem On Nov 19, 2014, at 7:27 AM, tomw via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: A person's viewpoint on this and many other things depends on how risk averse s/he is, and we all tend to think our level of risk aversion is just about right and any that is quite different is unreasonable. Range anxiety, I think, is even more governed by typical and expected use cases. If you have a five mile commute and the next city is thirty miles away and you can't imagine needing to go there on a whim, range anxiety isn't going to exist even with a vehicle with only 50 miles of range. If you live (as I do) in the Phoenix metro area, a vehicle with an 80-mile EPA range probably won't even be able to make it from Apache Junction (the city on the eastern edge of the Valley) to Buckeye (on the western edge) on a single charge. Risk aversion is going to be secondary to that. Maybe you live in the small town and you're not very risk averse, so a 20-mile range seems luxurious; maybe you live in the small town and you _are_ risk averse and that 50-mile range is what it takes to calm your fears. But, no matter how risk averse you are or aren't, if you live in Surprise and work in downtown Phoenix and can't plug in (a perfect description of another friend of mine), that 50-mile car isn't even going to get you all the way home. This same friend also sometimes has to go to Mesa as part of the job, and _that_ round trip is itself outside of even the Leaf's EPA range. She'd probably honestly need a 200-mile range just to get to the same level of lack of range anxiety as that person in the small town would have with a 20-mile range. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141119/90b83eec/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141119/d94fc742/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
Stephen via EV wrote: You certainly can't rely on public chargers, or at least I haven't had the nerve to yet... I only charge at work or home. I feel the same way. It may be occupied, or broken, or it's only for other brands of EVs, or I don't have the right 'card' etc. I hate going to gas stations. It's one of the reasons I like EVs so much -- I can refuel at home. Having to go to a filling station to charge my EV negates the whole point of having an EV. If I have a longer trip, I take an ICE. -- Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats. -- Howard Aiken -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
On 19 Nov 2014 at 12:13, Lee Hart via EV wrote: I [prefer charging at home]. [A public charger] may be occupied, or broken, or it's only for other brands of EVs, or I don't have the right 'card' etc. Like (I think) Ben Goren, in the last few years, even before some of the recent news revelations, I've been developing more concern for personal privacy. Some of my friends have commented on my growing collection of stylish tinfoil hats ;-). Those activation cards for charging stations - from what I can tell, cash is never an option, as it is at gasoline filling stations - make me a little uncomfortable. When you use them, you're effectively being tracked. The data are logged somewhere, and who knows how good the security is? It's one more hole in your privacy shield. OK, it's probably not a big one, but still it's another place for your personal data to leak out. So, that's one more advantage for home charging : improved privacy. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
Hi Stephen and All, I've been EVing for 20 yrs now and found early on the beauty of lightweight EV's, 250-1000lbs that can be charged from 120vac outlets fairly fast because they have small pack and use little/mile. My most recent Harley Servcecar size trike pickup only needs 60wthrs/mile so charges about 25 mph at 120vac outlets. Soon will have a full aero cabin cutting drag more. Luckily there are 6 billon? of 120vac outlets to chose from. I've never used one of the new ones as they are not where I'm going usually still but 120vac outlets I can find near everywhere. As can no longer walk far my solution is a range extender that will be rarely used for long range. Jerry Dycus. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141119/3e8fb4b0/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
On Wed, 11/19/14, paul dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem To: Ben Goren b...@trumpetpower.com, tomw tomofreno2...@yahoo.com, Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org, Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2014, 11:38 AM I built mine 2 years ago. The only time I charged it anywhere besides my garage was when I towed it to EVCON. It's mostly a silly argument and most chargers around cities are never used. Because for various reasons, many are ICE'd or the blessed chargers dont work or they want 50+ cents a kWh or similar. so i charge at home From: Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: tomw tomofreno2...@yahoo.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem On Nov 19, 2014, at 7:27 AM, tomw via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: A person's viewpoint on this and many other things depends on how risk averse s/he is, and we all tend to think our level of risk aversion is just about right and any that is quite different is unreasonable. Range anxiety, I think, is even more governed by typical and expected use cases. If you have a five mile commute and the next city is thirty miles away and you can't imagine needing to go there on a whim, range anxiety isn't going to exist even with a vehicle with only 50 miles of range. If you live (as I do) in the Phoenix metro area, a vehicle with an 80-mile EPA range probably won't even be able to make it from Apache Junction (the city on the eastern edge of the Valley) to Buckeye (on the western edge) on a single charge. Risk aversion is going to be secondary to that. Maybe you live in the small town and you're not very risk averse, so a 20-mile range seems luxurious; maybe you live in the small town and you _are_ risk averse and that 50-mile range is what it takes to calm your fears. But, no matter how risk averse you are or aren't, if you live in Surprise and work in downtown Phoenix and can't plug in (a perfect description of another friend of mine), that 50-mile car isn't even going to get you all the way home. This same friend also sometimes has to go to Mesa as part of the job, and _that_ round trip is itself outside of even the Leaf's EPA range. She'd probably honestly need a 200-mile range just to get to the same level of lack of range anxiety as that person in the small town would have with a 20-mile range. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141119/90b83eec/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
Ben Goren wrote: ... but the fact remains that American culture is largely built around on-the-go charging. It's what people know and how they think. That is not culture, that is a habit. It may be difficult to break, but habits change. Today you see long lines to buy coffee at Starbucks, these were not there 10 years ago - someone created that habit, many followed. One simple question: where do you charge your cellphone and laptop? On-the-go or at home or both? I think the same is true for EVs. There won't be electric plug-in stations on every streetcorner in the near future. There will be scattered public charging stations and a concentration in every shopping and work destination, plus the normal one you use for overnight charging in your garage/carport/assigned parking space and probably eventually, a lot of curbside charging for those who can't park on premises for whatever reason. Regards, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
I believe that some home installed chargers are still networked, so they are still tracking you - this is sold as that you can set different rates for your own RFID and others, but I prefer to not have a smart charger. I like the simplicity of an extension cord: copper cable and connectors, that is all you need to charge. To comply with the new standard, I have added a resistor and a diode so I can tap from J1772 but prefer the stations that you simply insert the connector and it starts supplying power without waving one of the many RFID cards that I needed to register for... I have a JuiceBox and I have several Power Packs, none of them is networked. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator via EV Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:21 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem On 19 Nov 2014 at 12:13, Lee Hart via EV wrote: I [prefer charging at home]. [A public charger] may be occupied, or broken, or it's only for other brands of EVs, or I don't have the right 'card' etc. Like (I think) Ben Goren, in the last few years, even before some of the recent news revelations, I've been developing more concern for personal privacy. Some of my friends have commented on my growing collection of stylish tinfoil hats ;-). Those activation cards for charging stations - from what I can tell, cash is never an option, as it is at gasoline filling stations - make me a little uncomfortable. When you use them, you're effectively being tracked. The data are logged somewhere, and who knows how good the security is? It's one more hole in your privacy shield. OK, it's probably not a big one, but still it's another place for your personal data to leak out. So, that's one more advantage for home charging : improved privacy. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Honda Civic Hybrid battery pack info needed
I picked up a complete 2005 Honda Civic hybrid pack a couple weeks ago and was curious as to what all is contained in the can and what the battery voltage / Ahr is. Also, is the large flat air cooled item where the two orange cables run into some type of controller? Seems to have a 3 lug output. Another flat pack looks like a computer and another possibly a charger? If so I wonder what could be repurposed to another EV use? Any suggestions where I can look up info on these? Dach. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141120/6ee83dcb/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] OT: status the newswires are changing, $till being manipulated
[The following has OT items and some of my opinions. On OT topics, as
described by the evdl.org charger evdl members voted for, please use OT to
preface your specific topic if you pick out pieces/paragraphs/sections to
comment on.
Qualifier: For those that do not know what I have been doing for free since
the 1990's to help the plugin community, I pay for news searches and also
manually search the newswires for EV, and plugin related topics (very time
consuming) to post on the evdl.org for the plugin community to read and
disseminate.
Though much of my work has been lost over the years, there are still a few
ol'-timers around that remember the early days of the Internet when the evdl
was created, just for said purpose. I post these not only as a service (so
you do not have-to do the searches), but also the Internet is constantly
being white-washed/sanitized which takes off old newswires, so the
EV-history has now been cleansed, and the advertizing automakers can say
what they want with less contradictions.
I have no stocks or any other investment$ in any companies, my work is free
(nonprofit), though you will see what I have found picked up and
reused/repurposed by others that are in the biz (they make $, I do not), I
drove an EV conversion for 15+ years back before their were the production
EVs or public EVSE of today, etc. So, I have about 24+ years of EV
experience when I state an opinion ... Those wanting to read my work can see
the links at the bottom of my posts.
]
Recently (over the last couple of weeks), the automakers that are pushing
fcvs, spending money to provide copy to the media outlets so as to get their
word out (anti-EV, HEY! Look at our fcvs, etc.).
I am not going to provide the links to their newswires, as chemical-fuel
consuming vehicles do not need my help to promote them (the automakers are
already spending $M's doing that). Note: whatever EV/plugin-competition
vehicle being promoted, will steal away the attention of the public in
considering a plugin purchase.
Key points to note on the EV-history timeline:
-Though TMC sez 2016 is when their fcvs will be available, they have stated
$63k is the starting price. Note that is lower than the new cost of the
lowest priced Tesla-S trim. And also note that automakers have been touting
fcvs 'are just around the corner' for years, so do not be surprised if their
actual release to the public date is pushed out yet again, like after a
Presidential election (hint, hint, wink, wink, etc.).
-Several other automakers are using this week to also state they-too will
have fcv's, but with not price, or actual release date stated.
-Almost all newswires use common wording (likely provided by the automakers)
that have 'electric vehicle' and or ' electric car' in it. While most do
not say their fcv is an EV, those words are thrown in so as to make their
newswires be found on news searches (I do it for free, other people search
for investment info, etc.).
-Some interesting playing with the wording is happening: while none of the
fcv newswires mention the h2 comes from cheap natural gas, and no one is
saying what is done with the gunk left over after the h2
extraction/reforming, they are touting some electric-only mile ranges (~30+
miles), because the fcvs have a small li-ion pack (not unlike a
plug-in-hybrid).
Even some wording that the puny-pack is a range-extender: 'with a
combination of a hydrogen fuel cell and a range-extending lithium-ion
battery'
-The few natural-gas/cng newswires of last week also using EV, etc wording
have died away (for now). But only point out their are $M being spent to
dilute the public's attention away from plugins. Automaker get no-credits
for selling cng-cars, so it is an obvious automaker/oil-company ploy to
promote cng (when there are no production cng cars available).
-Same as the EVSE newswires are out ('Hey! we have a charging spot-too',
etc.), now both h2 refueling company self-promotion newswires, and
'The-future-is-coming' newswires stating h2 stations will-be built for the
'coming' h2 fcvs (which are really equivalent to natural-gas using/burning
old-school hybrid vehicle: using a fossil chemical fuel, with a few Electric
components so automakers can confuse the public by touting fcvs as electric,
etc.).
-'5minute refueling time' is still the big fcv wording push, but the future
TMC fcv mentioned above only has a 300mi h2-range. That translates to more
than 5min when you have to wait in the queue at what few h2 stations there
will be, and 300mi is not that great an increase in range compared to
Tesla-S 85kWh (265mi) EV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S
(just enough of an increase to get the approval of CARB for the 7 credits).
-None of the chemical-refueling cost$ of fcvs are ever mentioned in the
newswires (as in no price is set yet). I hope that when they do, they had
better put in terms the public will understand and use to compare running
co$t$.
Those are just a few of the items
Re: [EVDL] Honda Civic Hybrid battery pack info needed
David, I just visited a community college that reconditions hybrid packs - include Civic packs such as yours. If you are any where near Flat Rock NC you can get a very good deal on that work at Blue Ridge Community College (probably free or just parts). The pack is mad from NiMH cells welded end to end. There is probably ample video record of this on YouTube. You may want to look at information on the Automotive Research Design website - they make systems to do this, and created the franchise The Hybrid Shop. NiMH apparently can be reconditioned and recover a lot of lost function. Also there is decent success getting useful cells from salvaged packs. The NiMH cells apparently have some crystal growth that can bee reversed but some routine oc pulsing the charge current. I don't know the details. Best, Mike On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 7:00 PM, David Chapman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I picked up a complete 2005 Honda Civic hybrid pack a couple weeks ago and was curious as to what all is contained in the can and what the battery voltage / Ahr is. Also, is the large flat air cooled item where the two orange cables run into some type of controller? Seems to have a 3 lug output. Another flat pack looks like a computer and another possibly a charger? If so I wonder what could be repurposed to another EV use? Any suggestions where I can look up info on these? Dach. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141120/6ee83dcb/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141119/3f72aacb/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
On Nov 19, 2014, at 9:58 AM, Rick Beebe via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Personally I think plug-in hybrids like the Volt and my C-Max are probably the ideal vehicle to introduce people to EVs. I agree enough that that's the route I'm planning on taking for my own conversion: add a couple HPEVS AC-51s to the undercarriage of my 1964 1/2 Mustang belted to the driveshaft and with a small battery pack to get a Volt-inspired PHEV. 80% of my trips will be 100% electric, but it'll still work great for those trips to the other side of the Valley, as well as road trips and what-not. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141119/13cfbaa3/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
On Nov 19, 2014, at 12:21 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: So, that's one more advantage for home charging : improved privacy. Privacy improved even over gasoline...use your credit card at the gas station, and at least your bank knows where you are. Charge at home and, at most, your electric utility might maybe be able to guess how many miles you drive. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141119/4723903c/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] OT: status the newswires are changing, $till being manipulated
On Nov 19, 2014, at 6:22 PM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Recently (over the last couple of weeks), the automakers that are pushing fcvs, spending money to provide copy to the media outlets so as to get their word out (anti-EV, HEY! Look at our fcvs, etc.). I've seen a couple of those press releases (etc.) bubble to the surface, too. I thought about commenting on one here, decided on the better of it. I'll admit, it's neat technology. It's just a shame that it's always so damned inefficient and typically so dirty, even if tailpipe emissions are clean. In practical terms, it's really, really hard to beat gasoline (or diesel) as an energy storage medium. And what so few people realize is that it's actually an hydrogen delivery system. The chemical reaction in the internal combustion engine is to combine the hydrogen in the gasoline with oxygen in the air, forming water and releasing energy. The carbon in the gasoline is simply the carrier for the hydrogen. In one sense it's wasteful and just gets in the way and creates pollution; in another, it's what turns the hydrogen into a convenient liquid. You'd be really hard pressed to match the hydrogen density in gasoline by any other means. What interest me far more than fool cell vehicles is gasoline (etc.) synthesized from atmospheric CO2 using solar energy. It's not efficient nor cheap...but I consistently hear from various places that it would be profitable when oil is at or below $200 / barrel. As such, it provides something of a backstop on both the amount of oil we'll extract (why keep extracting dirty low-quality $220 / barrel oil when you can cleanly make high-quality $180 / barrel oil?) and the damage to our economy from extreme oil prices. And, of course, the fuels made in this manner are carbon-neutral; burn the carbon in the fuel and you just release back what went into making it a short while earlier. Better yet, if we ever ramp up something like this to truly industrial scales, we can eventually get to excess production levels and pump those excesses back in the ground and thereby heal some of the damage done to the atmosphere. And we wouldn't even have to cover a majority of the residential rooftop surface area with solar panels to have enough power to be able to do that and provide for all the rest of our energy needs. Not sure I'll live to see that day, though b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141119/5e79085f/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
On 19 Nov 2014 at 13:08, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: probably eventually, a lot of curbside charging for those who can't park on premises for whatever reason. The US tends to be more focused on suburbia, so we often forget about the Europeans who live in city houses and apartments and park their cars on the public streets. They have no garages or even dedicated private parking spaces, so they have no places to fit privately owned chargers. This is also true in some US cities, but I think fewer than in Europe. Having no way to charge at home means you have to use paid charging stations. It's just like fueling an ICEV, but it takes longer and you have to do it more often. This HAS to be a drag on EV adoption, no? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] OT: status the newswires are changing, $till being manipulated
On 19 Nov 2014 at 20:51, Ben Goren via EV wrote: What interest me far more than fool cell vehicles is gasoline (etc.) synthesized from atmospheric CO2 using solar energy. Is it just me, or does it seem that we're wandering even further off topic? If that's true, maybe we could please nudge the discussion back toward EVs and away from gasoline and liquid fuels. Thanks, David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hand-wringing EV angst is not a real problem
EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: The US tends to be more focused on suburbia, so we often forget about the Europeans who live in city houses and apartments and park their cars on the public streets. They have no garages or even dedicated private parking spaces, so they have no places to fit privately owned chargers. Having no way to charge at home means you have to use paid charging stations. It's just like fueling an ICEV, but it takes longer and you have to do it more often. This HAS to be a drag on EV adoption, no? For decades, those of us in the snow belt have had free widespread public charging stations. They are normal 120vac outlets, installed to plug in block heaters so our cars will start in the winter. They can be found everywhere people park; parking lots, curbside, apartments, etc. The other obvious candidates are parking meters. Many of them are now electrical, and have 120vac service. It would be trivially easy to add a standard 120vac receptacle with a weatherproof cover, that is switched on when you put money in the meter. I honestly think those who see the lack of EV infrastructure as an insurmountable problem are just not thinking about it clearly. -- Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats. -- Howard Aiken -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
