Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
Win95 was released in the fall of 94 in Korea... which is where I was when it came out. On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 04:24, et wrote: On Wednesday 05 February 2003 05:05 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 05 Feb 2003 9:03 am, James Sparenberg wrote: Great. after september 30 this year I won't have a single supportable box U Gentlemen. Are you going to give me new laptops with my 9.1 distro? It wouldn't be a problem if I could manage to get software that would last as long as my hardware... well... let's see 8 years on Win95 ... 6 on 98 .. h me thinks the product life cycle is t short. if you are under the impression that M$ has an 8 year product suport for win95, you might try asking M$ what support they offer for win95, and consider that sept 2004 win95 will be 8 years old, as it was 1 year old in 1996 Could someone clarify, please? Does this mean that there will be no security fixes after those dates? If those continue we would be no worse off than with any windows distro. After all, if it works for us now it will continue to do so. But without security updates it's a whole new ball game. Anne __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] drakbackup
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 14:32, Brian Schroeder wrote: From: Luca Olivetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] You just scared me to death. I had no problem reding the tapes to restore some files from time to time (when a user deleted them by mistake), but I guess murphy's law applies here: in case of disaster the tape won't be readable :-( Absolutely! That's the one thing you can be sure of. The tape always works, until the disaster. But the one time you realy need it, no go. It has happened to me too. Never lost a tape but I have lost the reader! :) Brian _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Problem with .rpmmacros / rpm build setup
Maximum RPM is the best book on this out there.. Here is the link to the
online version.
http://www.rpm.org/max-rpm/
If you have an RH disk set or if you feel like downloading from RH it's
also in the documentation section of every release they do.
James
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 18:40, civileme wrote:
On Wednesday 05 February 2003 03:40 pm, Jim C wrote:
Thanks but I got this one already. Now I am trying to fight my way
through the spec file. Know of any place where there are docs on these?
Jim C.
Todd Lyons wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Jim C wrote on Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 10:11:23PM -0800 :
I am stuck at the rpm install. I think I probably have a macro wrong
somewhere. Note that jim is a local user with home directory named
/lclusr/jim.
[jim@enigma jim]$ rpm -ivh samba-2.2.7a-3mdk.src.rpm
error: cannot create %sourcedir /%{/lclusr/jim}/rpm/SOURCES
mkdir /lcluser/jim/rpm
mkdir /lcluser/jim/rpm/RPMS
mkdir /lcluser/jim/rpm/RPMS/i586
mkdir /lcluser/jim/rpm/RPMS/noarch
mkdir /lcluser/jim/rpm/SRPMS
mkdir /lcluser/jim/rpm/SOURCES
mkdir /lcluser/jim/rpm/SPECS
mkdir /lcluser/jim/rpm/BUILD
mkdir /lcluser/jim/rpm/tmp
Blue skies... Todd
- --
| MandrakeSoft USA | Security is like an onion. It's made |
| http://www.mandrakesoft.com | made up of several layers and makes |
| http://www.mandrakelinux.com | you cry. --Howard Chu|
Mandrake Cooker Devel Version, Kernel 2.4.21pre4-1mdk
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
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pD4tkqUxAy8V9CvXB/MZ+tw=
=c4h5
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Ummm, I searched unsuccesfully for docs on those--best thing I can think of is
to rpm -i something.src.rpm from srpms for mandrake and then look at the spec
files others have made. Some of them have really artful dodges and many will
give you clues how to do it.
There is the rpm howto at
http://www.mandrakelinux.com/howtos/mdk-rpm/
which explains a lot of the procedure including the spec file.
Civileme
__
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Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
--
James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 12:12, Vincent Danen wrote: On Wed Feb 05, 2003 at 06:44:05PM +, Anne Wilson wrote: Great. after september 30 this year I won't have a single supportable box U Gentlemen. Are you going to give me new laptops with my 9.1 distro? It wouldn't be a problem if I could manage to get software that would last as long as my hardware... well... let's see 8 years on Win95 ... 6 on 98 .. h me thinks the product life cycle is t short. Don't even begin comparing us to Microsoft. You should know better. How much cash does Microsoft have in reserve? How much does MandrakeSoft? There has to be a limit as to what is affordable in the way of support. When it comes down to it, only security is an issue to someone continuing to use an older distro if they choose to do so. If maintaining security updates is too difficult, might it be feasible to maintain a page of link to security updates that those running crucial servers could use? Since those users are most likely to compile their own, it sounds feasible. What do you think? That's what MandrakeSecure, the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list, updates for newer distribs, are all for. Put it this way: Subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (you should already be subscribed if you care about security anyways)... you will be alerted on new updates whether they are security or bugfix. The advisory indicates what packages are updated, for what distrib, and what the problem is. Visit http://www.mandrakesecure.net/advisories/ if you don't want to subscribe. The advisories for each platform are there. Download the src.rpm indicated in the advisory. Either attempt to rebuild it for your old distrib, or extract the patches and apply it to whatever version you're currently using (backporting is likely necessary). The information is already all there, and I'm willing to bet that people who haven't upgraded their 7.1 machines are using this information to keep their 7.1 system relatively current. This is true and up until 9.0 came out this was possible. (too many changes.) What I'm think of is a situation where you got 1000 of these puppies ranging from 7.1 through 9.0 it can be a nightmare. My severs aren't that many. I do agree that things should have a life. But a reasonable life. how about support for a series. 7.x support dead in June. 8.x dead at the end of the year. 9.x goes on until Say... we are into the 10 series? In 1997 I bought a copy of NT4 for 159 bucks. Support for this ends at the end of this year so I can spread my costs over 5 years. Here though I pay 69.95 twice a year(I only download beta's and if I really need the hardware support). and I don't get support or updates in the sense that for example. No kernel yet released for 8.2 will work right on my i815 and i830 boxes (but 9.0 works fine.) so if I'm an 8.2 user... I'm stuck with a 70 dollar set of frisbee's. No I can't download the kernel and build it. The extra dependencies on things like DocBook etc etc etc. creates a nightmare of apps to build. and many of them don't compile on anything earlier than 9.0. My point is not that it shouldn't have a life. But rather that the support life is too short. This has dramatically increased the TCO of linux in many a CEO/CTO's mind. (More time spent in upgrades, remember they were complaining about every 2 years with MS!) The disks cost less yes... but the percieved cost of the personel needed to install of these boxes + the risk of data loss during upgrades is a very real concern for them. James -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 06:15, et wrote: I have noticed that Redhat, and M$ has lately published listing reguardiing expected support cycles, and all of them are shorter than what most people expect for manufactured products, but this is the way of things, and even more so with computers, since the hardware is planned to be obsolete in 3 to 4 years anyway. This is the sweet spot I'm talking about IF support cycles matched hardware life it would be IMHO a better proposition. In other words doing support life by series not by release. The the life cycle of the series would more closely match the life of the hardware. The problem now is to hit the sweet spot in Corporate world in such a way that they want/need MDK's support and are willing to pay for it! Product life cycle is cool. I still feel it's a little short. James the real problem (from my narrow little pinhole viewpoint) is the need for applications needing all the computing power available. while most companies got P3 M$ windows boxes, they still use them to emmulate access to a termanel off the server, or run word. stuff they could have done with the wyse monochrom termanal they threw away to have pretty colors. __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] drakbackup
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 14:16, Jack Coates wrote: On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 14:00, Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 05 Feb 2003 9:48 pm, Luca Olivetti wrote: civileme wrote: Then one day I arrived at work to find the fileserver unresponsive. I eventually powered down and found the disk would not boot and enough of it was corrupted to make the rest inaccessible. OK no problem, data is on tapes, let's reload OS--- done reach for tape Oops--tape is unreadable reach for two week old tape--E gee that one is no good either Tapes sent to data recovery service--well whattayaknow They charged quite a bit to give me the bad news that six years of work was lost. That's what the verify feature of your backup program is there for. It take twice the time and it'll probably cause more wear and tear on the tape but at least you'll know the tape is readable. 'Fraid not. I was running backup with full verify, but it still didn't stop the drive from refusing the tape next time, saying it couldn't read it. And I was using good quality branded DAT tapes. Anne After using and selling Enterprise IT products and services for nearly ten years, I do not trust any backup solution as far as I can throw the media. They all more or less suck, and exist purely to give a false sense of security and we did our due diligence to the purchaser. I use and recommend to those who ask for an honest opinion the Linus Torvalds backup strategy: Real men upload their important data to FTP servers and let the world download it. That doesn't mean to upload your corporate database, but it does mean to replicate the data to other locations and use hard disks. Want some bad hdd's! got about 60 gigs of them here. Smallest is 200mb (been helping friend re-archive is life the last 3 weeks.). It comes down to an old telco procedure. Check the primary every day and the secondary twice as often. -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] ICH4 on MDK9 resource collision
There is a thread in Cooker that might intrest you look in the archives the thread title is. Cooker] Testkernel for Intel 845 chipset... (IDE support) ... James Apparently it's a test kernel aimed squarely at the i845 chipset. On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 06:02, et wrote: in bios, turn plug and play aware OS to off On Wednesday 05 February 2003 04:40 am, Birkoff wrote: Hello I have a MSI MS-6580 motherboard with 845PE chipset The problem is that when mdk9 boots it gives me PCI device 0:1f:1 was disabled because of resource collision and because of that the computer behaves like a 486 when it comes about reading/writing on the disks. is there any patch for the default 2.4.19 kernel witch comes with the mdk9? or a newer kernel from mandrake? I can try to install a fresh new kernel from kernel.org but I am afraid that the original kernel was patched and particularised by MDK team. any other suggestions are welcomed. TIA __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] drakbackup
So true. This is coming from when i did Server Support for Dell. Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Brian Schroeder Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 4:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] drakbackup From: Luca Olivetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] You just scared me to death. I had no problem reding the tapes to restore some files from time to time (when a user deleted them by mistake), but I guess murphy's law applies here: in case of disaster the tape won't be readable :-( Absolutely! That's the one thing you can be sure of. The tape always works, until the disaster. But the one time you realy need it, no go. It has happened to me too. Brian _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] ksensors dependaces
Yes, The builder of this application has an nvidia video card on his/her box. I've seen this dozens of times. If you don't (like me) have the nvidia card do a nodpes install It's always worked when I've done this. James On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 17:00, Evaristo Ferrari wrote: Hi,I'm tring to install ksensors but got dependance error on libGLcore.so.1. I've looked around the MDK9 cds but didn't found anything. Can someone tell me what's wrong? TIA Evaristo -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] ip rules help
what the heck it is? I've never heard of it, but i only get three lines returned when I issue the command. man ip Basically it is the commands to utilize the IP Route utility built into the kernel or applied to... Rob Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] ksensors dependaces
If you go to rpmfind.net and do a search for libGLcore.so.1 it will bring up the package that it is included in. You can pick the package you want from there. Anything endign in a .so is a library, i believe, anyone correct me if i am wrong. Seems to be part of the nVidia driver packages. You can also do a serach in http://rpm.pbone.net/ and it will also bring up the packages. pbone will allow you to DL files that are NOT supposed to be in the USlike DVD copying libraries and such. Have fun. http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=libGLcore.so.1submit=Sea rch+... The 3 dots are part of the link. Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Evaristo Ferrari Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [expert] ksensors dependaces Hi,I'm tring to install ksensors but got dependance error on libGLcore.so.1. I've looked around the MDK9 cds but didn't found anything. Can someone tell me what's wrong? TIA Evaristo -- Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] drakbackup
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 12:00, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 19:08 +, Anne Wilson wrote: Talking of which - do you know any site with information on the different grades of media, with regard to lifespan. I'm careful with storage, but I'm aware that the media I'm using are not really suitable for longer storage. I just don't know how to choose the right ones. I don't have a link but there is one important factor: CDs also are vulnerable by wrong or careless handling. Don't ever touch the surface with your fingers because this leaves tiny fat particles. Store them in a dark room with medium temperature and low humidity. best bet were the cased media but I doubt there are any more drives for cased media. Only under these conditions you can think of real storage time like 10 years. I still have a set of 5.25 floppies with some dbaseIII data on them. They are still readable after 11 years due to good handling. Of course I have transferred the data to CD now but I'm just curious how long those floppies will last. Wobo, If I might add. If you use cases (and it's a good idea) make sure that they are fire and water proof... I just had some survers go under water and the backups survived because the cases where water tight. James wobo -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] drakbackup
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 17:28, Robert Barry wrote: I'm a CPA in my real life and I decided to go with removable hard drives for our office network. I just setup a mandrake server and use samba to backup up the NT fileserver right on to the removable hard drive. I have a set of shell scripts that mount the NT fileserver directories and cron runs it everynight at 11pm. It does about 3GBs of data. Then I shutdown and swap hard drive so I have a drive rotated offsite to my house. I usually swap hard drives every few days. Robert... The last line about backing up to a second location physically is the best Fire that destroy's your primary gets the tapes in the other room as well. James I have the mandrake server running headless and use SSH to access it from home or from my windows 2k desktop at work. For a small network like mine it is so easy to setup and run. Robert Barry __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
On Thursday 06 February 2003 03:38 am, James Sparenberg wrote: On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 06:15, et wrote: I have noticed that Redhat, and M$ has lately published listing reguardiing expected support cycles, and all of them are shorter than what most people expect for manufactured products, but this is the way of things, and even more so with computers, since the hardware is planned to be obsolete in 3 to 4 years anyway. This is the sweet spot I'm talking about IF support cycles matched hardware life it would be IMHO a better proposition. In other words doing support life by series not by release. The the life cycle of the series would more closely match the life of the hardware. The problem now is to hit the sweet spot in Corporate world in such a way that they want/need MDK's support and are willing to pay for it! Product life cycle is cool. I still feel it's a little short. I think it is worth mentioning, (more for someone that is just looking thru the archives and comes across this thread) that the support we are talking about is actully package sucurity updates, and not I just got given a Mandrake 7.2 cd, how do I get it installed letters to the mail lists. I am pretty sure that those kinda questions will still get some attention, just not to be worried about by Mandrake Paid Employees. James the real problem (from my narrow little pinhole viewpoint) is the need for applications needing all the computing power available. while most companies got P3 M$ windows boxes, they still use them to emmulate access to a termanel off the server, or run word. stuff they could have done with the wyse monochrom termanal they threw away to have pretty colors. __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
On Thursday 06 February 2003 03:38 am, James Sparenberg wrote: On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 06:15, et wrote: I have noticed that Redhat, and M$ has lately published listing reguardiing expected support cycles, and all of them are shorter than what most people expect for manufactured products, but this is the way of things, and even more so with computers, since the hardware is planned to be obsolete in 3 to 4 years anyway. This is the sweet spot I'm talking about IF support cycles matched hardware life it would be IMHO a better proposition. In other words doing support life by series not by release. The the life cycle of the series would more closely match the life of the hardware. The problem now is to hit the sweet spot in Corporate world in such a way that they want/need MDK's support and are willing to pay for it! Product life cycle is cool. I still feel it's a little short. James the real problem (from my narrow little pinhole viewpoint) is the need for applications needing all the computing power available. while most companies got P3 M$ windows boxes, they still use them to emmulate access to a termanel off the server, or run word. stuff they could have done with the wyse monochrom termanal they threw away to have pretty colors. __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com I would like to see a free support and a paid for support level that is extended, but that seems to be what they tried to do... support th server series longer than the desktop series. that said, I firmly believe the powerpack makes for a damn sweet serveer too, that can fillin as a desktop when needed Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
On Wednesday 05 Feb 2003 10:46 pm, Vincent Danen wrote: So if this part of the support is going to continue there really isn't any need to panic? I'm not sure what you mean, but I'll take a stab at it. Will MandrakeSecure continue to publish advisories? Yes. Will advisories continue to go to the mailing lists? Yes. Will update srpms still remain publically available? Absolutely. It depends on how much work you want to do. You can either update to a newer distrib, and do the work to do the migration, or do the work patching/maintaining your old distrib. It's up to you... the tools will always be there. I think that's all we need to know. Thank you Vincent Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] drakbackup
If I might add. If you use cases (and it's a good idea) make sure that they are fire and water proof... I just had some survers go under water and the backups survived because the cases where water tight. What kind of cases are you using? Rob Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] drakbackup
On Thursday 06 Feb 2003 8:50 am, James Sparenberg wrote: On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 17:28, Robert Barry wrote: I'm a CPA in my real life and I decided to go with removable hard drives for our office network. I just setup a mandrake server and use samba to backup up the NT fileserver right on to the removable hard drive. I have a set of shell scripts that mount the NT fileserver directories and cron runs it everynight at 11pm. It does about 3GBs of data. Then I shutdown and swap hard drive so I have a drive rotated offsite to my house. I usually swap hard drives every few days. Robert... The last line about backing up to a second location physically is the best Fire that destroy's your primary gets the tapes in the other room as well. Which is why off-site backup is always recommended - whether you do it by electronic transfer or taking a tape home with you. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
90% of the server apps are on the Desktop install anyway. Correct? Like Apache, Sendmail, etc. Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of et Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates On Thursday 06 February 2003 03:38 am, James Sparenberg wrote: On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 06:15, et wrote: I have noticed that Redhat, and M$ has lately published listing reguardiing expected support cycles, and all of them are shorter than what most people expect for manufactured products, but this is the way of things, and even more so with computers, since the hardware is planned to be obsolete in 3 to 4 years anyway. This is the sweet spot I'm talking about IF support cycles matched hardware life it would be IMHO a better proposition. In other words doing support life by series not by release. The the life cycle of the series would more closely match the life of the hardware. The problem now is to hit the sweet spot in Corporate world in such a way that they want/need MDK's support and are willing to pay for it! Product life cycle is cool. I still feel it's a little short. James the real problem (from my narrow little pinhole viewpoint) is the need for applications needing all the computing power available. while most companies got P3 M$ windows boxes, they still use them to emmulate access to a termanel off the server, or run word. stuff they could have done with the wyse monochrom termanal they threw away to have pretty colors. __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com I would like to see a free support and a paid for support level that is extended, but that seems to be what they tried to do... support th server series longer than the desktop series. that said, I firmly believe the powerpack makes for a damn sweet serveer too, that can fillin as a desktop when needed Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] OT Important! (to me) Any statisticians in the list?
Todd Lyons wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 daRcmaTTeR wrote on Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 06:08:29PM -0500 : I'm not mad. I'm just trying to increase the SNR of this mailing list. Ok...but whats SNR? Maybe I should have written S/N Ratio instead. It's an acronym for Signal to Noise Ratio. It's an electronics term. Any signal coming in will have a certain amount of noise that it has to compete with. The SNR is the strength of good signal versus the strength of the noise. In terms of a mailing list, it means that we want more ontopic posts than offtopic posts, where the desired quantity of offtopic posts is equal to zero. Blue skies... Todd ah...ok, that clears that up. Thanks. :) -- Mark If necessity is the mother of invention, then who's the father? --- Paid for by Penguins against modern appliances(R) Linux User Since 1996 Powered by Mandrake Linux 8.2 9.0 ICQ# 27816299 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] drakbackup
On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 00:48, James Sparenberg wrote: ... I use and recommend to those who ask for an honest opinion the Linus Torvalds backup strategy: Real men upload their important data to FTP servers and let the world download it. That doesn't mean to upload your corporate database, but it does mean to replicate the data to other locations and use hard disks. Want some bad hdd's! got about 60 gigs of them here. Smallest is 200mb (been helping friend re-archive is life the last 3 weeks.). It comes down to an old telco procedure. Check the primary every day and the secondary twice as often. I bet I could trump that if I ever cleaned out my tools-n-junk closet :-) the point is of course that no one expects the hard disk to be reliable, unless and until they spend a few million on the kind of gear that makes a disk failure or 40 the kind of thing that one worries about in spare time. It's just extremely common to see that the database is restored not from the tape system, but from the rsync'd copy of an export sitting on the DBA or sysadmin's laptop. I also realize that if you've got 3TB to backup as opposed to 3GB, it's a whole different ballgame. The realistic options are asymmetric network synchronization and tape, and tape is far and away the price/performance leader. You do know the fastest data transport system on the planet, right? It's a courier carrying large storage media, Netflix being the most popular example. -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] drakbackup
Brian Schroeder wrote: From: Luca Olivetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] You just scared me to death. I had no problem reding the tapes to restore some files from time to time (when a user deleted them by mistake), but I guess murphy's law applies here: in case of disaster the tape won't be readable :-( Absolutely! That's the one thing you can be sure of. The tape always works, until the disaster. But the one time you realy need it, no go. It has happened to me too. Brian A very old saying that got drilled into me when I first started in this business: Computing experience is measured in the amount of data lost Truer words were never spoken.. We've all lost data due to a broken backup system. Personally, I still find permanantly writing data to a CD-R 700MB at a time unacceptable. If the data is changing daily, you'll very quickly have a cabinet full of usless CDs. CD-RWs are just not reliable, and still do not have the capacity to provide an adequate backup. If I have a server with a T-byte if data on it, I'm ceretainly not going to try to back it up 700MB at a time to CDs. I HAVE to depend on tapes. There's just nothing else out there with the necessary capacity. Ric Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] drakbackup
I will beat on tape for backup. MY tape drive faithfully backed up once a week and I rotated 6 tapes to stay current. (MAC fileserver 80). Then one day I arrived at work to find the fileserver unresponsive. I eventually powered down and found the disk would not boot and enough of it was corrupted to make the rest inaccessible. OK no problem, data is on tapes, let's reload OS--- done reach for tape Oops--tape is unreadable reach for two week old tape--E gee that one is no good either Tapes sent to data recovery service--well whattayaknow They charged quite a bit to give me the bad news that six years of work was lost. The employer was too cheap to give me a separate workstation, so it was my six years of work that was lost. For the same reason, it was risky to try restoring from tape though I had always done one file a month. Anyway, the tapes were stretched and dirty and the drive was unusable. I have been burning CDs since that time, even when the burns were at 1X. Civileme Oh come now Civilme! Due diligence here! If you do no maintenance on your back up system, you get what you deserve. I'm absolutely amazed that you let your tapes fall into that state. Just like any backup strategy, it requires maintenance! Your statement above is like saying: I didn't change the oil in my car for 3 years, and the engine died. That proves cars are no good. Sorry to beat up you, but you deserve it for even making the statement: tapes were stretched and dirty and the drive was unusable. rant So you threw a junky old tape, in a piece of crap tape drive, and the backup/restore failed? Gee.. really? I guess that proves beyond all doubt that tape backup systems can't be trusted. Didn't anyone bother to check this thing periodicly? Your backups are only as reliable as *you* make them. Garbage in, Garbage out. /rant Over the years, I've seen you give a lot of good advice, and help a lot of people. I've had a great deal of respect for you. But I guess everyone has their areas where they are just another DAU grin Ok.. I'll admit, I've lost data to faulty backup systems. But it's usually been my own fault. The short side of this is: CDs provide nowhere near the capacity required to do regular backups of changing data. And.. I really don't want to make perminant backups to CD-R of data that changes regularly, it's just wasteful. Besides, there is no way, I can backup my multi-T-Byte systems (at work) to CD! Tapes are not perfect, but they're the only option when you have large amounts of data. But they're only as good as their maintenance. Ric Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] drakbackup
Actually they are meant for shipping drums (as in rock band) that we got from a garage sale. Used some shipping foam from a case of HDD's we bought (it holds HDD's individually and gives me slots I can label.) It's a real cludge but it works. We also use One of those fire and water proof safes that you buy at Office Depot or any other office supply store... They float sorta. James On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 04:48, Robert Wideman wrote: If I might add. If you use cases (and it's a good idea) make sure that they are fire and water proof... I just had some survers go under water and the backups survived because the cases where water tight. What kind of cases are you using? Rob __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
On Thu Feb 06, 2003 at 12:30:34AM -0800, James Sparenberg wrote:
My responses on this thread will be brief. I invite everyone to read
the thread that was on the discuss mailing list; archives are here:
http://archives.mandrakelinux.com/discuss/2003-02/
[...]
Visit http://www.mandrakesecure.net/advisories/ if you don't want to
subscribe. The advisories for each platform are there.
Download the src.rpm indicated in the advisory. Either attempt to
rebuild it for your old distrib, or extract the patches and apply it to
whatever version you're currently using (backporting is likely
necessary).
The information is already all there, and I'm willing to bet that
people who haven't upgraded their 7.1 machines are using this
information to keep their 7.1 system relatively current.
This is true and up until 9.0 came out this was possible. (too many
changes.) What I'm think of is a situation where you got 1000 of these
puppies ranging from 7.1 through 9.0 it can be a nightmare. My severs
aren't that many. I do agree that things should have a life. But a
reasonable life. how about support for a series. 7.x support dead in
June. 8.x dead at the end of the year. 9.x goes on until Say...
we are into the 10 series?
The policy is already in place. We're not modifying it. 7.2 is the
only 7.x currently supported. It's been available for 26mos now. It's
time for it to die.
And, if we follow our current release cycle, 9.1 will reach the end of
it's life when 10.0 is out (desktop support). It will reach it's full
EOL when 10.1 is out. So 9.x is being supported until 10.x is
available.
In 1997 I bought a copy of NT4 for 159 bucks. Support for this ends at
the end of this year so I can spread my costs over 5 years. Here though
Again, you're comparing Microsoft with an extremely large cash reserve
and *far* more resources to MandrakeSoft, which is currently in chapter
11. Draw your own conclusion as to how much we can afford to support.
I pay 69.95 twice a year(I only download beta's and if I really need the
hardware support). and I don't get support or updates in the sense that
for example. No kernel yet released for 8.2 will work right on my i815
and i830 boxes (but 9.0 works fine.) so if I'm an 8.2 user... I'm stuck
with a 70 dollar set of frisbee's. No I can't download the kernel and
build it. The extra dependencies on things like DocBook etc etc etc.
creates a nightmare of apps to build. and many of them don't compile on
anything earlier than 9.0.
For kernel stuff, you need to talk to the kernel guys. If I attempted
to fix this, I'd likely break everything in the process.
And compiling a kernel from source isn't that bad. urpmi kernel-source
and all the deps come with it.
My point is not that it shouldn't have a life. But rather that the
support life is too short. This has dramatically increased the TCO of
linux in many a CEO/CTO's mind. (More time spent in upgrades, remember
they were complaining about every 2 years with MS!) The disks cost less
yes... but the percieved cost of the personel needed to install of these
boxes + the risk of data loss during upgrades is a very real concern for
them.
I agree, to some extent. MandrakeLinux is a desktop OS, not a server
OS. If you choose to use it as such, you have to deal with the risk.
This is why we announced the policy, so one can plan accordingly.
Corporate Server 2.1 was announced today. This will have a longer
support life and it may be the solution you are looking for.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
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Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
On Thu Feb 06, 2003 at 07:27:23AM -0500, et wrote:
[...]
I would like to see a free support and a paid for support level that is
extended, but that seems to be what they tried to do... support th server
series longer than the desktop series. that said, I firmly believe the
powerpack makes for a damn sweet serveer too, that can fillin as a desktop
when needed
This is your choice. Powerpack is not sold, advertised, or priced as a
server OS. Please don't expect us to support it as such when that is
not it's intent. Powerpack is a desktop OS for power users.
No one is stopping you from using Powerpack as your server. Just
understand it has an 18mos life cycle.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
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Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
On Thu Feb 06, 2003 at 10:23:55AM +, Anne Wilson wrote:
So if this part of the support is going to continue there really isn't
any need to panic?
I'm not sure what you mean, but I'll take a stab at it. Will
MandrakeSecure continue to publish advisories? Yes. Will advisories
continue to go to the mailing lists? Yes. Will update srpms still
remain publically available? Absolutely.
It depends on how much work you want to do. You can either update to a
newer distrib, and do the work to do the migration, or do the work
patching/maintaining your old distrib. It's up to you... the tools
will always be there.
I think that's all we need to know. Thank you Vincent
The other thing to note, Anne, is that Corporate Server 2.1 was
announced today. It has a much longer support life than Mandrake Linux
does. It may fill your needs.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
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Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
On Wednesday 05 February 2003 11:38 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 06:15, et wrote: I have noticed that Redhat, and M$ has lately published listing reguardiing expected support cycles, and all of them are shorter than what most people expect for manufactured products, but this is the way of things, and even more so with computers, since the hardware is planned to be obsolete in 3 to 4 years anyway. This is the sweet spot I'm talking about IF support cycles matched hardware life it would be IMHO a better proposition. In other words doing support life by series not by release. The the life cycle of the series would more closely match the life of the hardware. The problem now is to hit the sweet spot in Corporate world in such a way that they want/need MDK's support and are willing to pay for it! Product life cycle is cool. I still feel it's a little short. James the real problem (from my narrow little pinhole viewpoint) is the need for applications needing all the computing power available. while most companies got P3 M$ windows boxes, they still use them to emmulate access to a termanel off the server, or run word. stuff they could have done with the wyse monochrom termanal they threw away to have pretty colors. __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Well 3-4 years of supporting old things in a system as dynamic as GNU/linux is going to co$t. Perhaps the most useful activity to make this happen is to form a club for such support and see if you get enough subscriptions to support the effort. No one can offer that length of support and remain competitive with other distros in terms of selling price. MIcrosoft could support things for longer because their software does not change as often. the win95 kernel and the win 98 kernel were byte-for-byte identical. Expect to see MS dropping win2K next January. (Horrid flash--writers of job descriptions will have fits as they try to require 4 years experience with the latest release of windows or linux) Happy motoring!!! Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] Module help?
I posted this message (close, anyways) to the newbie list but didn't get the help I needed so... I have a Logitech Wingman USB joystick. I've searched the msg list archives and googlized it as a subject header but still need help. Most of the modules needed for this joystick to work are there, according to lsmod. What isn't there is adi and joydev. I can modprobe these and they show up under lsmod. Next time I bootup, they are gone again. What can I do to make them be loaded automagically from boot? (and please, nobody say just don't power down! grin) Thanks! -- /\ Dark Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Module help?
Ronald J. Hall wrote: I posted this message (close, anyways) to the newbie list but didn't get the help I needed so... I have a Logitech Wingman USB joystick. I've searched the msg list archives and googlized it as a subject header but still need help. Most of the modules needed for this joystick to work are there, according to lsmod. What isn't there is adi and joydev. I can modprobe these and they show up under lsmod. Next time I bootup, they are gone again. What can I do to make them be loaded automagically from boot? (and please, nobody say just don't power down! grin) Thanks! Look at /etc/modules. I think it would be ok to put them there, one per line, as the comments say. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] A moment of Silence. Columbia, NOT Challanger.
Trivia: OV-98 (Drop test vehicle - never flown aside from glide tests pre STS-1) OV-99 Challenger OV-102 Columbia OV-103 Discovery OV-104 Atlantis OV-105-Endeavor -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin * Bertin, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 - Original Message - From: Franki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 9:23 PM Subject: RE: [expert] A moment of Silence. Columbia, NOT Challanger. Ok, I will go along with that, except to say that its the Columbia we should be remembering.. Challanger happened 17 years ago. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Sparenberg Sent: Sunday, 2 February 2003 6:55 AM To: Expert List Subject: [expert] A moment of Silence. In honor of the men and women of the space shuttle challenger. Please a moment of silence. And an awareness of the tragic effect a small problem can bring. I respectfully submit that to properly honor these men and women from many Nations, no replies or additional comments be made on this list. Please, hold your replies and your prayers in your hearts so that your God may see them and be with the families of those we have lost. James Sparenberg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] A moment of Silence. Columbia, NOT Challanger.
On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 22:07:40 -0600, David Rankin wrote: Trivia: OV-98 (Drop test vehicle - never flown aside from glide tests pre STS-1) Wasn't this named Enterprise? I remember a big deal about Trekkers trying to get a shuttle named after the ship in Star Trek. OV-99 Challenger OV-102 Columbia OV-103 Discovery OV-104 Atlantis OV-105-Endeavor -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin * Bertin, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 - Original Message - From: Franki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 9:23 PM Subject: RE: [expert] A moment of Silence. Columbia, NOT Challanger. Ok, I will go along with that, except to say that its the Columbia we should be remembering.. Challanger happened 17 years ago. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Sparenberg Sent: Sunday, 2 February 2003 6:55 AM To: Expert List Subject: [expert] A moment of Silence. In honor of the men and women of the space shuttle challenger. Please a moment of silence. And an awareness of the tragic effect a small problem can bring. I respectfully submit that to properly honor these men and women from many Nations, no replies or additional comments be made on this list. Please, hold your replies and your prayers in your hearts so that your God may see them and be with the families of those we have lost. James Sparenberg - --- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Matthew O. Persico Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
Well, I think the end of life stuff sucks. Yes, it's inevitable, but it still sucks. I for one haven't upgraded my 7.2 server (other than applying patches) since it was installed. Why? Answer: It works, It works, It works! It is inefficient to think about spending 3-5 days of a backup, HD format, re-install, reconfigure, reload, test, (fix what used to work, but now for some reason unexplained doesn't), QA and harden a new server when the one you have provides 100% of what you need (and believe me 7.2 is widely installed and has few shortcommings) So no, I don't repave each time a got to have a number larger than RH release comes out. If their is a needed capability that is offered in the new release, then I would. However, ssh, apache, php, mysql, pptpd, ipsec, samba (no XP clients), BIND 8, and the rest still work just fine under 7.2. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin * Bertin, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 - Original Message - From: Mark Chou [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:44 PM Subject: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates Now that Mandrake has announced their product end-of-life policy (http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/productlifetime.php3), I really need a sustainable upgrade strategy. I've always struggled with rpm updates, basically downloadling source rpms and building them myself. Mandrake package dependencies also happen to be particularly 'unkempt,' often includes things that really aren't necessary. My most important MDK box, a gateway/firewall, is still basically MDK8.0 (console only). What do most of you do to keep your machines up to date with necessary features and security updates? Do you pretty much re-pave each time for a newer MDK distro, or do you build your own from sources? Any time-saving hints, like rsync, etc, which would save download time? What are the best practices? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
I totally agree with this. WHY WHY WHY? well then again security issues and updates and features Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of David Rankin Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates Well, I think the end of life stuff sucks. Yes, it's inevitable, but it still sucks. I for one haven't upgraded my 7.2 server (other than applying patches) since it was installed. Why? Answer: It works, It works, It works! It is inefficient to think about spending 3-5 days of a backup, HD format, re-install, reconfigure, reload, test, (fix what used to work, but now for some reason unexplained doesn't), QA and harden a new server when the one you have provides 100% of what you need (and believe me 7.2 is widely installed and has few shortcommings) So no, I don't repave each time a got to have a number larger than RH release comes out. If their is a needed capability that is offered in the new release, then I would. However, ssh, apache, php, mysql, pptpd, ipsec, samba (no XP clients), BIND 8, and the rest still work just fine under 7.2. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin * Bertin, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 - Original Message - From: Mark Chou [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:44 PM Subject: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates Now that Mandrake has announced their product end-of-life policy (http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/productlifetime.php3), I really need a sustainable upgrade strategy. I've always struggled with rpm updates, basically downloadling source rpms and building them myself. Mandrake package dependencies also happen to be particularly 'unkempt,' often includes things that really aren't necessary. My most important MDK box, a gateway/firewall, is still basically MDK8.0 (console only). What do most of you do to keep your machines up to date with necessary features and security updates? Do you pretty much re-pave each time for a newer MDK distro, or do you build your own from sources? Any time-saving hints, like rsync, etc, which would save download time? What are the best practices? - --- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
Yep, I totally agree.. Vincent made a statement that mdk was a desktop OS.. and that as such had no obligations to be a server.. I wasn't totally aware of that, I have seen blurb on the website about how mandrake makes good servers.. and that many of the examples that mandrake give in their newsletters are about mandrake as servers... As sad as it is to me,, I will probably swap to redhat or debian for servers in future, because a reload every 18 months is alittle to much for me.. we have 20 servers in our system.. and thats alot of work, not to mention that I have setup many small business's with mandrake 8.1/8.1 and 9.0 boxes... all of which don't have a long lifespan ahead.. I can only hope that when mandrake gets back in the black they will rethink this to some degree.. One of the reasons I have been parading to our dept heads that linux is better then winsucks is the longevity of the product... The only way to really get that now it seems.. is to use stable debian.. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of David Rankin Sent: Friday, 7 February 2003 12:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates Well, I think the end of life stuff sucks. Yes, it's inevitable, but it still sucks. I for one haven't upgraded my 7.2 server (other than applying patches) since it was installed. Why? Answer: It works, It works, It works! It is inefficient to think about spending 3-5 days of a backup, HD format, re-install, reconfigure, reload, test, (fix what used to work, but now for some reason unexplained doesn't), QA and harden a new server when the one you have provides 100% of what you need (and believe me 7.2 is widely installed and has few shortcommings) So no, I don't repave each time a got to have a number larger than RH release comes out. If their is a needed capability that is offered in the new release, then I would. However, ssh, apache, php, mysql, pptpd, ipsec, samba (no XP clients), BIND 8, and the rest still work just fine under 7.2. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin * Bertin, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 - Original Message - From: Mark Chou [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:44 PM Subject: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates Now that Mandrake has announced their product end-of-life policy (http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/productlifetime.php3), I really need a sustainable upgrade strategy. I've always struggled with rpm updates, basically downloadling source rpms and building them myself. Mandrake package dependencies also happen to be particularly 'unkempt,' often includes things that really aren't necessary. My most important MDK box, a gateway/firewall, is still basically MDK8.0 (console only). What do most of you do to keep your machines up to date with necessary features and security updates? Do you pretty much re-pave each time for a newer MDK distro, or do you build your own from sources? Any time-saving hints, like rsync, etc, which would save download time? What are the best practices? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] A moment of Silence. Columbia, NOT Challanger.
I don't mean to be unsensitive to the tragedy.. but taking that into account.. I'd be starting to worry alittle if I was a Discovery astronaut... they seem to be failing in order. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of David Rankin Sent: Friday, 7 February 2003 12:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] A moment of Silence. Columbia, NOT Challanger. Trivia: OV-98 (Drop test vehicle - never flown aside from glide tests pre STS-1) OV-99 Challenger OV-102 Columbia OV-103 Discovery OV-104 Atlantis OV-105-Endeavor -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin * Bertin, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 - Original Message - From: Franki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 9:23 PM Subject: RE: [expert] A moment of Silence. Columbia, NOT Challanger. Ok, I will go along with that, except to say that its the Columbia we should be remembering.. Challanger happened 17 years ago. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Sparenberg Sent: Sunday, 2 February 2003 6:55 AM To: Expert List Subject: [expert] A moment of Silence. In honor of the men and women of the space shuttle challenger. Please a moment of silence. And an awareness of the tragic effect a small problem can bring. I respectfully submit that to properly honor these men and women from many Nations, no replies or additional comments be made on this list. Please, hold your replies and your prayers in your hearts so that your God may see them and be with the families of those we have lost. James Sparenberg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
As sad as it is to me,, I will probably swap to redhat or debian for servers in future, because a reload every 18 months is alittle to much for me.. we have 20 servers in our system.. and thats alot of work, not to mention that I have setup many small business's with mandrake 8.1/8.1 and 9.0 boxes... all of which don't have a long lifespan ahead.. RH Advanced Server is released every 18 months, desktop releases are every 6 monthsjust FYI if you dont want to update every 18 months, good luck on it. Rob Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
The one thing that draws me to Mandrake is the fact that it is more geared toward the desktop. I truly believe that the future of linux depends on getting the common person to use it instead of windows and most people use a desktop and do not have a server. As far as I am concerned Mandrake makes a nice server too. If you have 20 servers in your system, why not switch to the new corporate server just released? just my opinion... Walt On Fri, 2003-02-07 at 01:14, Franki wrote: Yep, I totally agree.. Vincent made a statement that mdk was a desktop OS.. and that as such had no obligations to be a server.. I wasn't totally aware of that, I have seen blurb on the website about how mandrake makes good servers.. and that many of the examples that mandrake give in their newsletters are about mandrake as servers... As sad as it is to me,, I will probably swap to redhat or debian for servers in future, because a reload every 18 months is alittle to much for me.. we have 20 servers in our system.. and thats alot of work, not to mention that I have setup many small business's with mandrake 8.1/8.1 and 9.0 boxes... all of which don't have a long lifespan ahead.. I can only hope that when mandrake gets back in the black they will rethink this to some degree.. One of the reasons I have been parading to our dept heads that linux is better then winsucks is the longevity of the product... The only way to really get that now it seems.. is to use stable debian.. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of David Rankin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] A moment of Silence. Columbia, NOT Challanger.
I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner. At least they finally got some budget. Franki wrote: I don't mean to be unsensitive to the tragedy.. but taking that into account.. I'd be starting to worry alittle if I was a Discovery astronaut... they seem to be failing in order. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of David Rankin Sent: Friday, 7 February 2003 12:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] A moment of Silence. Columbia, NOT Challanger. Trivia: OV-98 (Drop test vehicle - never flown aside from glide tests pre STS-1) OV-99 Challenger OV-102 Columbia OV-103 Discovery OV-104 Atlantis OV-105-Endeavor -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin * Bertin, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 - Original Message - From: Franki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 9:23 PM Subject: RE: [expert] A moment of Silence. Columbia, NOT Challanger. Ok, I will go along with that, except to say that its the Columbia we should be remembering.. Challanger happened 17 years ago. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Sparenberg Sent: Sunday, 2 February 2003 6:55 AM To: Expert List Subject: [expert] A moment of Silence. In honor of the men and women of the space shuttle challenger. Please a moment of silence. And an awareness of the tragic effect a small problem can bring. I respectfully submit that to properly honor these men and women from many Nations, no replies or additional comments be made on this list. Please, hold your replies and your prayers in your hearts so that your God may see them and be with the families of those we have lost. James Sparenberg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] permissions for a cgi script
Try adding ExecCGI to your options list. James On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 20:08, H. Carter Harris wrote: I have been trying to find the answer to this question and the closest I have come is the O'Reilly book on Apache. But I'm wondering if it is specific enough. I have apache 1.3.23.4mdk running. I have virtual hosts configured and they are working correctly with index.html. Now I want to use a cgi script on one of the sites. The host to use the cgi script has the following directives: VirtualHost 192.168.1.103 ServerName www.xxx.com DocumentRoot /usr/www/vtest/htdocs ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ /usr/www/vtest/cgi-bin/ Directory /usr/www/vtest/htdocs Options Indexes MultiViews AllowOverride None Order allow,deny Allow from all /Directory /VirtualHost When I go to the default file on the domain it works. When I try to go to www.xxx.com/cgi-bin/cgihello.plx I get the following message: You don't have permission to access /cgi-bin/cgihello.plx on this server. chmod was used to set the directory and file as follows: directory: drwxr-xr-x cgi-file: -rw-r--r-x What am I overlooking? Thanks for any help in advance. Carter __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 22:14, Franki wrote: Yep, I totally agree.. Vincent made a statement that mdk was a desktop OS.. and that as such had no obligations to be a server.. I wasn't totally aware of that, I have seen blurb on the website about how mandrake makes good servers.. and that many of the examples that mandrake give in their newsletters are about mandrake as servers... As sad as it is to me,, I will probably swap to redhat Don't go RH same situation, UNLESS you pay extra for extra support. Slack is good... and reliable. or debian for servers in future, because a reload every 18 months is alittle to much for me.. we have 20 servers in our system.. and thats alot of work, not to mention that I have setup many small business's with mandrake 8.1/8.1 and 9.0 boxes... all of which don't have a long lifespan ahead.. I can only hope that when mandrake gets back in the black they will rethink this to some degree.. One of the reasons I have been parading to our dept heads that linux is better then winsucks is the longevity of the product... The only way to really get that now it seems.. is to use stable debian.. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of David Rankin Sent: Friday, 7 February 2003 12:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates Well, I think the end of life stuff sucks. Yes, it's inevitable, but it still sucks. I for one haven't upgraded my 7.2 server (other than applying patches) since it was installed. Why? Answer: It works, It works, It works! It is inefficient to think about spending 3-5 days of a backup, HD format, re-install, reconfigure, reload, test, (fix what used to work, but now for some reason unexplained doesn't), QA and harden a new server when the one you have provides 100% of what you need (and believe me 7.2 is widely installed and has few shortcommings) So no, I don't repave each time a got to have a number larger than RH release comes out. If their is a needed capability that is offered in the new release, then I would. However, ssh, apache, php, mysql, pptpd, ipsec, samba (no XP clients), BIND 8, and the rest still work just fine under 7.2. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin * Bertin, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 - Original Message - From: Mark Chou [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:44 PM Subject: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates Now that Mandrake has announced their product end-of-life policy (http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/productlifetime.php3), I really need a sustainable upgrade strategy. I've always struggled with rpm updates, basically downloadling source rpms and building them myself. Mandrake package dependencies also happen to be particularly 'unkempt,' often includes things that really aren't necessary. My most important MDK box, a gateway/firewall, is still basically MDK8.0 (console only). What do most of you do to keep your machines up to date with necessary features and security updates? Do you pretty much re-pave each time for a newer MDK distro, or do you build your own from sources? Any time-saving hints, like rsync, etc, which would save download time? What are the best practices? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 22:26, walt wrote: The one thing that draws me to Mandrake is the fact that it is more geared toward the desktop. I truly believe that the future of linux depends on getting the common person to use it instead of windows and most people use a desktop and do not have a server. As far as I am concerned Mandrake makes a nice server too. If you have 20 servers in your system, why not switch to the new corporate server just released? the old one works ... is reliable. and if you dare mention to the sysadmin that you want him to lose is 200+ days of uptime he/she might strangle you *grin* James just my opinion... Walt On Fri, 2003-02-07 at 01:14, Franki wrote: Yep, I totally agree.. Vincent made a statement that mdk was a desktop OS.. and that as such had no obligations to be a server.. I wasn't totally aware of that, I have seen blurb on the website about how mandrake makes good servers.. and that many of the examples that mandrake give in their newsletters are about mandrake as servers... As sad as it is to me,, I will probably swap to redhat or debian for servers in future, because a reload every 18 months is alittle to much for me.. we have 20 servers in our system.. and thats alot of work, not to mention that I have setup many small business's with mandrake 8.1/8.1 and 9.0 boxes... all of which don't have a long lifespan ahead.. I can only hope that when mandrake gets back in the black they will rethink this to some degree.. One of the reasons I have been parading to our dept heads that linux is better then winsucks is the longevity of the product... The only way to really get that now it seems.. is to use stable debian.. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of David Rankin __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 13:13, civileme wrote: On Wednesday 05 February 2003 11:38 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 06:15, et wrote: I have noticed that Redhat, and M$ has lately published listing reguardiing expected support cycles, and all of them are shorter than what most people expect for manufactured products, but this is the way of things, and even more so with computers, since the hardware is planned to be obsolete in 3 to 4 years anyway. This is the sweet spot I'm talking about IF support cycles matched hardware life it would be IMHO a better proposition. In other words doing support life by series not by release. The the life cycle of the series would more closely match the life of the hardware. The problem now is to hit the sweet spot in Corporate world in such a way that they want/need MDK's support and are willing to pay for it! Product life cycle is cool. I still feel it's a little short. James the real problem (from my narrow little pinhole viewpoint) is the need for applications needing all the computing power available. while most companies got P3 M$ windows boxes, they still use them to emmulate access to a termanel off the server, or run word. stuff they could have done with the wyse monochrom termanal they threw away to have pretty colors. __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Well 3-4 years of supporting old things in a system as dynamic as GNU/linux is going to co$t. Perhaps the most useful activity to make this happen is to form a club for such support and see if you get enough subscriptions to support the effort. No one can offer that length of support and remain competitive with other distros in terms of selling price. MIcrosoft could support things for longer because their software does not change as often. the win95 kernel and the win 98 kernel were byte-for-byte identical. Expect to see MS dropping win2K next January. (Horrid flash--writers of job descriptions will have fits as they try to require 4 years experience with the latest release of windows or linux) Hey fits well with 15 years of Java experience. *grin*. Happy motoring!!! Civileme __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- James Sparenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Mandrake RPM updates
On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 23:23, James Sparenberg wrote: On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 13:13, civileme wrote: On Wednesday 05 February 2003 11:38 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 06:15, et wrote: I have noticed that Redhat, and M$ has lately published listing reguardiing expected support cycles, and all of them are shorter than what most people expect for manufactured products, but this is the way of things, and even more so with computers, since the hardware is planned to be obsolete in 3 to 4 years anyway. This is the sweet spot I'm talking about IF support cycles matched hardware life it would be IMHO a better proposition. In other words doing support life by series not by release. The the life cycle of the series would more closely match the life of the hardware. The problem now is to hit the sweet spot in Corporate world in such a way that they want/need MDK's support and are willing to pay for it! Product life cycle is cool. I still feel it's a little short. James the real problem (from my narrow little pinhole viewpoint) is the need for applications needing all the computing power available. while most companies got P3 M$ windows boxes, they still use them to emmulate access to a termanel off the server, or run word. stuff they could have done with the wyse monochrom termanal they threw away to have pretty colors. __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Well 3-4 years of supporting old things in a system as dynamic as GNU/linux is going to co$t. Perhaps the most useful activity to make this happen is to form a club for such support and see if you get enough subscriptions to support the effort. No one can offer that length of support and remain competitive with other distros in terms of selling price. MIcrosoft could support things for longer because their software does not change as often. the win95 kernel and the win 98 kernel were byte-for-byte identical. Expect to see MS dropping win2K next January. (Horrid flash--writers of job descriptions will have fits as they try to require 4 years experience with the latest release of windows or linux) Hey fits well with 15 years of Java experience. *grin*. Happy motoring!!! Civileme Oh my goodness Just had a serious thought wouldn't it suck to be an mcse right now. Cause if I know M$ it's a whole new program not just a class to update your skills. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] fyi, new gnome 2.2 is out, lots of cool updates
Gnome 2.2 Released GNOMEPosted by timothy on Wednesday February 05, @03:44PM from the dadburn-that-slippery-gnome dept. heydrick writes This message confirms that Gnome 2.2 is officially released. And a month ahead of the originally planned six-month release cycle. Check out the Gnome 2.2 Start Page and use a mirror to download. http://www.gnome.org/start/2.2/ ( Read More... | 228 of 375 comments ) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
