Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft snipped
On Friday 27 December 2002 09:41 pm, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 17:37 -0500, ET wrote: I got a bounce at that address Sorry, but the correct address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] wobo thanks, I re-mailed them... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
Jack Coates wrote: I really think they need to improve the icon set, I'm sure that a flashier default icon set would improve cash flow by 14.6562144% in the first three months (not including February in this analysis) :-) I think Mandrake's popularity, and so its income, would be improved if the menu system included ALL the installed applications. At present (9.0) it still falls far short.I am frequently favourably surprised - the latest surprise is kwikdisk. -- Ron. [Melbourne, Australia] troels... now updated to use ftp.sunet.se server. See: http://members.optusnet.com.au/ronst/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
big snip Oh I do get the point I'm just trying to extend it. BTW went to a local Fry's today (for those who don't know it's an electronics supermarket in California and Texas) They had 30 boxes of RH left and 15 SuSe. The gal working the software section said they got 75 roughly of each ... and of course one lone copy of MDK 8.2... This is why I feel that a million or even 500k isn't out of the question even with a 20% backwash from the channel it's still a healthy total (20% is very very high) Sure $5M would be helpful, it would be excellent! But if those boxes aren't there *today*, I fail to see how this helps us get to the point where we will be putting that number of boxes on store shelves. My point... why aren't they there? Why isn't McMillian pushing them out the door? snip Name regognition would be my bet. I am still pushing for a sticker to replace my old rainbow bitten apple logo on my RX3 mazda. heck I would print them if I had a good logo that I thought might get attention. anyone with any Ideas can e-mail me off list even. While I think a star and a penguin should be on the logo, maybe a big M or the word mandrake in the background would be good. Please do not include the logos on any Mandrake supported web site, since I have already considered them. If I had my way, an extra dollar would be tacked on to the Powerpack and Prosuite boxes to pay for and include the logo sticker, and a note encourging everyone to show the bird on their cars. I firmly believe Apple survived without Steve Jobs, mainly because of the lasting advertising value of all those apple logos on the back of VWs and Mazdas. let's consider some low cost methods of getting name recognition for this great product, that by it's nature uses word of mouth (and word on the internet) as it's most important advertising tool. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 07:17 -0500, ET wrote: Name regognition would be my bet. I am still pushing for a sticker to replace my old rainbow bitten apple logo on my RX3 mazda. heck I would print them if I had a good logo that I thought might get attention. anyone with any Ideas can e-mail me off list even. While I think a star and a penguin should be on the logo, maybe a big M or the word mandrake in the background would be good. Please do not include the logos on any Mandrake supported web site, since I have already considered them. If I had my way, an extra dollar would be tacked on to the Powerpack and Prosuite boxes to pay for and include the logo sticker, and a note encourging everyone to show the bird on their cars. I firmly believe Apple survived without Steve Jobs, mainly because of the lasting advertising value of all those apple logos on the back of VWs and Mazdas. let's consider some low cost methods of getting name recognition for this great product, that by it's nature uses word of mouth (and word on the internet) as it's most important advertising tool. I think this is one good example how different nation's people think different. I talked to various people at MandrakeSoft during visits to the Paris HQ and they think French. You (and a vast majority of Mandrake Linux users think US-American or Canadian. For you this brand awareness is of a very different value than for the french mind. Of course I may be completely wrong here, just my impression. I've the same opinion like you (my best example is the Deutsche Bank logo, in fact I know the creator of that brilliant thing). I'm wearing my Mandrake cap most times and there's a Mandrake penguin on my letter box. Of course my notebook brandishes a large penguin sticker and if I'd own a car I would have a fake license plate in the rear window MDK TUX or similar. There should be something done about that. Just those few goodies in the MandrakeStore just ain't 'nuff. I suggest a mass mailing to [EMAIL PROTECTED] expressing wishes for the stickers they once included in the boxed sets (I still have some!) and other goodies like that. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 13:29 +0100, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: I'm wearing my Mandrake cap most times and there's a Mandrake penguin on my letter box. Of course my notebook brandishes a large penguin sticker and if I'd own a car I would have a fake license plate in the rear window MDK TUX or similar. There should be something done about that. Just those few goodies in the MandrakeStore just ain't 'nuff. Just a small f'up on my own mail concerning the marketing: In his Ask Mandrake answers in MandrakeClub article http://www.mandrakeclub.com/article.php?sid=221mode=nocomments the new CEO answered to this question: Q: How about a little marketing in the USA. Only publicity Mandrake gets is by way of user groups Linux sources. The public never even heard of you, but they know who REDHAT is!! A: I agree that we need to focus better on marketing our products, and we have some plans in the works right now. In the meanwhile, please help us by spreading the good word about MandrakeSoft. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
See that might be one of the problems... Mandrake need to think globally, not french.. Whats the biggest market for mandrake? I doubt its french... The number one rule that explains the M$ saga is targeted marketing.. They know what will get the possible users in a specific country and they hit them with it... Mandrake may not have the beans for that.. but they should at least target the marketing at the biggest potential market.. which is probably the US and UK... (but I could be wrong on that one.) still, its a thought.. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wolfgang Bornath Sent: Friday, 27 December 2002 8:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 07:17 -0500, ET wrote: Name regognition would be my bet. I am still pushing for a sticker to replace my old rainbow bitten apple logo on my RX3 mazda. heck I would print them if I had a good logo that I thought might get attention. anyone with any Ideas can e-mail me off list even. While I think a star and a penguin should be on the logo, maybe a big M or the word mandrake in the background would be good. Please do not include the logos on any Mandrake supported web site, since I have already considered them. If I had my way, an extra dollar would be tacked on to the Powerpack and Prosuite boxes to pay for and include the logo sticker, and a note encourging everyone to show the bird on their cars. I firmly believe Apple survived without Steve Jobs, mainly because of the lasting advertising value of all those apple logos on the back of VWs and Mazdas. let's consider some low cost methods of getting name recognition for this great product, that by it's nature uses word of mouth (and word on the internet) as it's most important advertising tool. I think this is one good example how different nation's people think different. I talked to various people at MandrakeSoft during visits to the Paris HQ and they think French. You (and a vast majority of Mandrake Linux users think US-American or Canadian. For you this brand awareness is of a very different value than for the french mind. Of course I may be completely wrong here, just my impression. I've the same opinion like you (my best example is the Deutsche Bank logo, in fact I know the creator of that brilliant thing). I'm wearing my Mandrake cap most times and there's a Mandrake penguin on my letter box. Of course my notebook brandishes a large penguin sticker and if I'd own a car I would have a fake license plate in the rear window MDK TUX or similar. There should be something done about that. Just those few goodies in the MandrakeStore just ain't 'nuff. I suggest a mass mailing to [EMAIL PROTECTED] expressing wishes for the stickers they once included in the boxed sets (I still have some!) and other goodies like that. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 12:41:52 +, Franki wrote: See that might be one of the problems... Mandrake need to think globally, not french.. Whats the biggest market for mandrake? I doubt its french... The number one rule that explains the M$ saga is targeted marketing.. They know what will get the possible users in a specific country and they hit them with it... Mandrake may not have the beans for that.. but they should at least target the marketing at the biggest potential market.. which is probably the US and UK... (but I could be wrong on that one.) Hmm. Certainly France only will not be the market that can make Mandrake surrvive on a longer perspective, but the EU certainly is. Here in Europe there is a strong movement against usage of closed source software in government/government-near organisations but unfortunately we don't hear too much of lobbyism coming from Mandrake. And for the US - European distributions in general have quite a hard stand in the US, just look what kind of troubles SuSE had still has in the US. There are - as usual - many reasons for that, but I think the the US market is one of the most difficult ones and I doubt that RedHat will let market shares go away too easy. just my 2¢s. udo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft snipped
snip I suggest a mass mailing to [EMAIL PROTECTED] expressing wishes for the stickers they once included in the boxed sets (I still have some!) and other goodies like that. wobo really. why not to [EMAIL PROTECTED] lol (I sent a mail) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft snipped
On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 12:53 -0500, ET wrote: snip I suggest a mass mailing to [EMAIL PROTECTED] expressing wishes for the stickers they once included in the boxed sets (I still have some!) and other goodies like that. wobo really. why not to [EMAIL PROTECTED] lol (I sent a mail) If you expected a reply (I guess you did because you don't seem to take that as a real option), then you did not read the text in the contact page: Don't expect an answer but all mails are read. And I know for sure that they do! wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft snipped
lol (I sent a mail) If you expected a reply (I guess you did because you don't seem to take that as a real option), then you did not read the text in the contact page: Don't expect an answer but all mails are read. And I know for sure that they do! wobo I got a bounce at that address Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft snipped
On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 17:37 -0500, ET wrote: I got a bounce at that address Sorry, but the correct address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Wed, 2002-12-25 at 22:42, Vincent Danen wrote: On Wednesday, December 25, 2002, at 10:57 PM, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: Some short comings in this statement First it ensures that the only people who can find out how to purchase a boxes set are people who have in the past used MDK... That is exactly right. That is the context of this (Vincent's) message; this is a short term solution, Vincent was not presenting this post as a catch all philosophy for long term growth; it was a gesture to those of us in the community who already have an online relationship with Mandrakesoft. Thanks, Lyvim. You've got the idea right on. I'm not talking about long term at all... would we like to see Mandrake boxes in every Walmart, Best Buy, Future Shop, K-Mart, Zellers, (insert your favourite computer or all-purpose store here)? Absolutely! Will they have it tomorrow? No. Will this help us with the recently posted call to arms? No. Those are all long term goals and while I'm not involved in that aspect of the company, I'm sure these things are being worked on, but those things take time. Time we don't have if our existing user base doesn't step forward. It's great to be thinking long term but, at this point in time, a little premature to think long term and sacrifice the short term. I'm afraid if we concentrated on long term and neglected the short term, there will *be* no long term. So while James made some very good points, they're pretty much irrelevant to the topic at hand which is, looking at the subject line, Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft, which is happening *now*... not next year. Hope everyone had a great Christmas! I was commenting on the letter in the thread immediately before me, and if the short term doesn't include the long term (or vice versa ) It can be counter productive. If MDK had a million box sets in the stores right now. Making 5 bucks a crack... would 5 mill help the short term bottom line? Yes I know that it can often be 30 to 60 days before this comes in but this kind of recievable would have possibly prevented the pull out of certain funds MDK was expecting (taken from the website announcement.) I don't wish or desire to denigrate the original letter.. but rather say yes I agree but more is needed for both short and long term success. I want to buy MDK 11.4 (yes I know they never get that high with sub numbers *grin*) I just hope there won't be another crisis like this right after 9.1 comes out, but the pattern is in place. I'm a club member, I buy my disks (not just download them, although I do that while waiting for my disks) I encourage others to buy not download. And right now... I'm tapped. My company is reaching an equally tight cash situation... but then again we are still privately funded with no Angel or Vulture investment. (soon to change) James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Thursday, December 26, 2002, at 01:15 AM, James Sparenberg wrote:
[...]
So while James made some very good points, they're pretty much
irrelevant to the topic at hand which is, looking at the subject line,
Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft, which is happening *now*... not
next year.
Hope everyone had a great Christmas!
I was commenting on the letter in the thread immediately before me, and
if the short term doesn't include the long term (or vice versa ) It can
be counter productive. If MDK had a million box sets in the stores
right now. Making 5 bucks a crack... would 5 mill help the short term
bottom line? Yes I know that it can often be 30 to 60 days before this
Yes, but you're still missing the point, James. I don't know if there
*are* a million boxed sets in stores right now. Sure $5M would be
helpful, it would be excellent! But if those boxes aren't there
*today*, I fail to see how this helps us get to the point where we will
be putting that number of boxes on store shelves.
comes in but this kind of recievable would have possibly prevented the
pull out of certain funds MDK was expecting (taken from the website
announcement.) I don't wish or desire to denigrate the original
letter..
I don't know about a pull-out of funds. It's been postponed/delayed
according to the website announcement, not retracted or cancelled.
but rather say yes I agree but more is needed for both short and
long term success. I want to buy MDK 11.4 (yes I know they never get
that high with sub numbers *grin*) I just hope there won't be another
crisis like this right after 9.1 comes out, but the pattern is in
place. I'm a club member, I buy my disks (not just download them,
although I do that while waiting for my disks) I encourage others to
buy
not download. And right now... I'm tapped. My company is reaching an
equally tight cash situation... but then again we are still
privately funded with no Angel or Vulture investment. (soon to change)
And I thank you for that, James. The issue at this instant in time, if
we could freeze on today, is not new users; it's existing users that
aren't doing their part (freeloaders if you will). Mandrake Linux is
perhaps one of the most popular Linux distributions out there, but
you'd never know it in terms of money. One of out greatest strengths
and, inevitably, our greatest weaknesses, is allowing the entire distro
to be downloaded for nothing. Don't tell me that people out there
don't take advantage of this and continue to download ISOs and use
Mandrake all over the place without contributing a dime. These are the
same people who will whine and complain if Mandrake ceases to exist, or
who currently scream and yell if something doesn't work to their liking.
I don't know. Maybe we need to go with SuSE's model and allow a one
ISO demo a few months after release to prevent people from doing this.
Then again, who wants to see Mandrake become another SuSE? I think
the fact that Mandrake does this is, again, it's greatest strength and
I'd hate to see that change as I think it would change the entire
philosophy of the company. So is that really an option? I hope not.
At any rate, I don't think there is much value in debating/discussing
this further. The real value is for people to step up and do something
to keep their distribution alive. That's right... *their*
distribution; it isn't our distro. It's *your* distro. We have opened
the process so much that almost anyone can put their mark on the distro
it is, essentially, a community distribution that we just maintain and
put the nuts and bolts on. If having that kind of distribution is
important to people, I trust they put their money into it to ensure
it's survival.
I don't want to sit here and become an evangelist for Mandrake...
that's not my job. But I do feel that certain things need to be
understood about how all of this works.
I also don't want anyone to feel we are neglecting the long term for
the sake of the short term as that is not the case at all.
I've said enough on this particular thread. I think it's time to have
actions speak instead of words.
Thanks.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD: 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}
PGP.sig
Description: PGP signature
RE: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
Well, even though I can't really afford it right now,, you have convinced me
to join the club for a year (well see after that.) I've bought powerpacks
from mandrakestore before, and I will purchase 9.1 the same way..
Thats as much as I can do right now...
$120 AUD a year is quiet alot of money to pay.. would be double that for
the silver member..
if only the AU dollar was worth something..
rgds
Frank
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Vincent Danen
Sent: Friday, 27 December 2002 2:55 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Thursday, December 26, 2002, at 01:15 AM, James Sparenberg wrote:
[...]
So while James made some very good points, they're pretty much
irrelevant to the topic at hand which is, looking at the subject line,
Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft, which is happening *now*... not
next year.
Hope everyone had a great Christmas!
I was commenting on the letter in the thread immediately before me, and
if the short term doesn't include the long term (or vice versa ) It can
be counter productive. If MDK had a million box sets in the stores
right now. Making 5 bucks a crack... would 5 mill help the short term
bottom line? Yes I know that it can often be 30 to 60 days before this
Yes, but you're still missing the point, James. I don't know if there
*are* a million boxed sets in stores right now. Sure $5M would be
helpful, it would be excellent! But if those boxes aren't there
*today*, I fail to see how this helps us get to the point where we will
be putting that number of boxes on store shelves.
comes in but this kind of recievable would have possibly prevented the
pull out of certain funds MDK was expecting (taken from the website
announcement.) I don't wish or desire to denigrate the original
letter..
I don't know about a pull-out of funds. It's been postponed/delayed
according to the website announcement, not retracted or cancelled.
but rather say yes I agree but more is needed for both short and
long term success. I want to buy MDK 11.4 (yes I know they never get
that high with sub numbers *grin*) I just hope there won't be another
crisis like this right after 9.1 comes out, but the pattern is in
place. I'm a club member, I buy my disks (not just download them,
although I do that while waiting for my disks) I encourage others to
buy
not download. And right now... I'm tapped. My company is reaching an
equally tight cash situation... but then again we are still
privately funded with no Angel or Vulture investment. (soon to change)
And I thank you for that, James. The issue at this instant in time, if
we could freeze on today, is not new users; it's existing users that
aren't doing their part (freeloaders if you will). Mandrake Linux is
perhaps one of the most popular Linux distributions out there, but
you'd never know it in terms of money. One of out greatest strengths
and, inevitably, our greatest weaknesses, is allowing the entire distro
to be downloaded for nothing. Don't tell me that people out there
don't take advantage of this and continue to download ISOs and use
Mandrake all over the place without contributing a dime. These are the
same people who will whine and complain if Mandrake ceases to exist, or
who currently scream and yell if something doesn't work to their liking.
I don't know. Maybe we need to go with SuSE's model and allow a one
ISO demo a few months after release to prevent people from doing this.
Then again, who wants to see Mandrake become another SuSE? I think
the fact that Mandrake does this is, again, it's greatest strength and
I'd hate to see that change as I think it would change the entire
philosophy of the company. So is that really an option? I hope not.
At any rate, I don't think there is much value in debating/discussing
this further. The real value is for people to step up and do something
to keep their distribution alive. That's right... *their*
distribution; it isn't our distro. It's *your* distro. We have opened
the process so much that almost anyone can put their mark on the distro
it is, essentially, a community distribution that we just maintain and
put the nuts and bolts on. If having that kind of distribution is
important to people, I trust they put their money into it to ensure
it's survival.
I don't want to sit here and become an evangelist for Mandrake...
that's not my job. But I do feel that certain things need to be
understood about how all of this works.
I also don't want anyone to feel we are neglecting the long term for
the sake of the short term as that is not the case at all.
I've said enough on this particular thread. I think it's time to have
actions speak instead of words.
Thanks.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD: 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
hi all, christmas has maxed out my cc but as soon as i make a payment i'll take out a silver membership long live mandrake!!! 9.0 has blown me away I used 8 for a long time up untill about a month ago and thought that was good but w 9.0 ROCKS can't wait for 10.0 jason Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
No one has mentioned the share option yet, I'm taking this up, its less than market value and you might even get your money back. JG Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
What are the Mandrake shares looking like right now? And why is Mandrake so disinterested in raising revenue out of Europe and North America. I swear I have emailed Mandrake 15 times asking how I can pay for a club membership - not ONE reply!! I am beginning to suspect that Mandrake is not too fussed about their financial health.. Shame really - I really like Mandrake! -Original Message- From: J. Grant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 12:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft No one has mentioned the share option yet, I'm taking this up, its less than market value and you might even get your money back. JG Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
Hi Vincent, And I thank you for that, James. The issue at this instant in time, if we could freeze on today, is not new users; it's existing users that aren't doing their part (freeloaders if you will). Mandrake Linux is perhaps one of the most popular Linux distributions out there, but you'd never know it in terms of money. One of out greatest strengths and, inevitably, our greatest weaknesses, is allowing the entire distro to be downloaded for nothing. Don't tell me that people out there don't take advantage of this and continue to download ISOs and use Mandrake all over the place without contributing a dime. These are the same people who will whine and complain if Mandrake ceases to exist, or who currently scream and yell if something doesn't work to their liking. I don't know. Maybe we need to go with SuSE's model and allow a one ISO demo a few months after release to prevent people from doing this. Then again, who wants to see Mandrake become another SuSE? I think the fact that Mandrake does this is, again, it's greatest strength and I'd hate to see that change as I think it would change the entire philosophy of the company. So is that really an option? I hope not. I noticed this issue, it is confounded by the fact that mdkstore releases are upto 1 month after the free (as in beer) downloads that I often have to take (even though i have an order in the post). Others might just not bother with the purchase of a box set if they download it, i've downloaded ISO's for several releases. If mdk can either speed up the release of cds in the shop or delay the ISO download release they can make 20% more cash I am sure. Please pass on my ideas Regards and happy new year JG Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
too right - I just gave up waiting around for Mandrake to make it easy for them to receive $$$ and just stuck with the download version - because by the time it finally arrives in Australia it's probably out of date anyway. And I never received a reply to my 15 or so emails regarding Mandrake Club and how to pay for it from Australia either. Mandrake really need to try harder if they want to remain financially healthy (indeed I hope they still are!) -Original Message- From: J. Grant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 12:10 PM To: Vincent Danen Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft Hi Vincent, And I thank you for that, James. The issue at this instant in time, if we could freeze on today, is not new users; it's existing users that aren't doing their part (freeloaders if you will). Mandrake Linux is perhaps one of the most popular Linux distributions out there, but you'd never know it in terms of money. One of out greatest strengths and, inevitably, our greatest weaknesses, is allowing the entire distro to be downloaded for nothing. Don't tell me that people out there don't take advantage of this and continue to download ISOs and use Mandrake all over the place without contributing a dime. These are the same people who will whine and complain if Mandrake ceases to exist, or who currently scream and yell if something doesn't work to their liking. I don't know. Maybe we need to go with SuSE's model and allow a one ISO demo a few months after release to prevent people from doing this. Then again, who wants to see Mandrake become another SuSE? I think the fact that Mandrake does this is, again, it's greatest strength and I'd hate to see that change as I think it would change the entire philosophy of the company. So is that really an option? I hope not. I noticed this issue, it is confounded by the fact that mdkstore releases are upto 1 month after the free (as in beer) downloads that I often have to take (even though i have an order in the post). Others might just not bother with the purchase of a box set if they download it, i've downloaded ISO's for several releases. If mdk can either speed up the release of cds in the shop or delay the ISO download release they can make 20% more cash I am sure. Please pass on my ideas Regards and happy new year JG Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Thu, 2002-12-26 at 17:39, J. Grant wrote: snip I don't know. Maybe we need to go with SuSE's model and allow a one ISO demo a few months after release to prevent people from doing this. Then again, who wants to see Mandrake become another SuSE? I think the fact that Mandrake does this is, again, it's greatest strength and I'd hate to see that change as I think it would change the entire philosophy of the company. So is that really an option? I hope not. I noticed this issue, it is confounded by the fact that mdkstore releases are upto 1 month after the free (as in beer) downloads that I often have to take (even though i have an order in the post). Others might just not bother with the purchase of a box set if they download it, i've downloaded ISO's for several releases. I really don't get a warm fuzzy feeling from glossy cardboard boxes, fancy silkscreening on the CD, or enough paper documentation to slap the nearest MCSE silly with... I'll be downloading ISOs or buying burned ISOs from cheapbytes.com exclusively. I am perfectly willing to accept a rate-limited download though, which might help with the bandwidth cost. If mdk can either speed up the release of cds in the shop or delay the ISO download release they can make 20% more cash I am sure. I really think they need to improve the icon set, I'm sure that a flashier default icon set would improve cash flow by 14.6562144% in the first three months (not including February in this analysis) :-) -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
2.27 €, but they are selling for 2.2 to us :) anyway i emailed them, they replied asking for my name, that was the last I have heard. perhaps the amount I wanted was not enough, but then asking users for support is never going to generate 300K €. JG Mcleod, Ian wrote: What are the Mandrake shares looking like right now? And why is Mandrake so disinterested in raising revenue out of Europe and North America. I swear I have emailed Mandrake 15 times asking how I can pay for a club membership - not ONE reply!! I am beginning to suspect that Mandrake is not too fussed about their financial health.. Shame really - I really like Mandrake! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
What's the share price history like? -Original Message- From: J. Grant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 12:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft 2.27 €, but they are selling for 2.2 to us :) anyway i emailed them, they replied asking for my name, that was the last I have heard. perhaps the amount I wanted was not enough, but then asking users for support is never going to generate 300K €. JG Mcleod, Ian wrote: What are the Mandrake shares looking like right now? And why is Mandrake so disinterested in raising revenue out of Europe and North America. I swear I have emailed Mandrake 15 times asking how I can pay for a club membership - not ONE reply!! I am beginning to suspect that Mandrake is not too fussed about their financial health.. Shame really - I really like Mandrake! File: message.footer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
STFW. http://fr.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MAKE.PAd=c On Thu, 2002-12-26 at 19:08, Mcleod, Ian wrote: What's the share price history like? -Original Message- From: J. Grant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 12:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft 2.27 , but they are selling for 2.2 to us :) anyway i emailed them, they replied asking for my name, that was the last I have heard. perhaps the amount I wanted was not enough, but then asking users for support is never going to generate 300K . JG Mcleod, Ian wrote: What are the Mandrake shares looking like right now? And why is Mandrake so disinterested in raising revenue out of Europe and North America. I swear I have emailed Mandrake 15 times asking how I can pay for a club membership - not ONE reply!! I am beginning to suspect that Mandrake is not too fussed about their financial health.. Shame really - I really like Mandrake! File: message.footer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
Mcleod, Ian wrote: too right - I just gave up waiting around for Mandrake to make it easy for them to receive $$$ and just stuck with the download version - because by the time it finally arrives in Australia it's probably out of date anyway. And I never received a reply to my 15 or so emails regarding Mandrake Club and how to pay for it from Australia either. Mandrake really need to try harder if they want to remain financially healthy (indeed I hope they still are!) There are links to Mandrake Club all over the site, including on the Downloads page and the header of the main page: http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ Following one of those links will take you to the introductory Club page for not-logged-in viewers: http://www.mandrakeclub.com/ In the introduction at the top of that page is a link to join: http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/club/ On that page are links to information and buttons to join at various levels, one of which might bring you to this page: http://mandrakesecure.com/storev2/pay.php Where Australia is on the list of countries 'shipped to'. I use a Visa bankcard for my transactions. I have seen mention of 'cheques' on these pages (international money order?) and Pay Pal. A 'voluntary contributions' page that predates the club but is not actively promoted is available to anyone who spends nothing to get the distro they use and want to support it monetarily: http://www.linux-mandrake.com/donations/ There is nothing free about what it takes to develop the isos on those servers, the infrastructure that houses that development, that hosts this list. If anybody here is still laboring under the misconception that they are entitled to a free download because of the GPL ought to take a close look at the text: http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU project is that you should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that you should charge as little as possible -- just enough to cover the cost. Actually we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please read on. .http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
I have looked at the sites, etc - they don't accept American Express (not that I blame them - I can't wait to get rid of Amex - they are such greedy bastards and no vendor will touch them anymore - anywhere - people scoff at me when I pull out the Amex). I never received a reply to that. Internationally from Australia one is looking at bank fees, horrific delays and all sorts of stuffing around one doesn't need to send money overseas. That and the fact that in Australian currency (we are a deluded farming nation that thinks agriculture is the way of the future - hence our currency devaluation) - it becomes quite expensive (double in price) - so I asked them to look at a local Australian contact or 'point of presence'. Never received a reply to that either.. -Original Message- From: Rolf Pedersen [mailto: Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 2:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft Mcleod, Ian wrote: too right - I just gave up waiting around for Mandrake to make it easy for them to receive $$$ and just stuck with the download version - because by the time it finally arrives in Australia it's probably out of date anyway. And I never received a reply to my 15 or so emails regarding Mandrake Club and how to pay for it from Australia either. Mandrake really need to try harder if they want to remain financially healthy (indeed I hope they still are!) There are links to Mandrake Club all over the site, including on the Downloads page and the header of the main page: http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ Following one of those links will take you to the introductory Club page for not-logged-in viewers: http://www.mandrakeclub.com/ In the introduction at the top of that page is a link to join: http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/club/ On that page are links to information and buttons to join at various levels, one of which might bring you to this page: http://mandrakesecure.com/storev2/pay.php Where Australia is on the list of countries 'shipped to'. I use a Visa bankcard for my transactions. I have seen mention of 'cheques' on these pages (international money order?) and Pay Pal. A 'voluntary contributions' page that predates the club but is not actively promoted is available to anyone who spends nothing to get the distro they use and want to support it monetarily: http://www.linux-mandrake.com/donations/ There is nothing free about what it takes to develop the isos on those servers, the infrastructure that houses that development, that hosts this list. If anybody here is still laboring under the misconception that they are entitled to a free download because of the GPL ought to take a close look at the text: http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU project is that you should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that you should charge as little as possible -- just enough to cover the cost. Actually we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please read on. .http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
I was just about to try signing up and then got this email... don't they accept credit cards from Australia I bought my 8.1 powerpack about a year or so ago that way, I just assumed the club would work the same way... it doesn't??? rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mcleod, Ian Sent: Friday, 27 December 2002 9:43 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft too right - I just gave up waiting around for Mandrake to make it easy for them to receive $$$ and just stuck with the download version - because by the time it finally arrives in Australia it's probably out of date anyway. And I never received a reply to my 15 or so emails regarding Mandrake Club and how to pay for it from Australia either. Mandrake really need to try harder if they want to remain financially healthy (indeed I hope they still are!) -Original Message- From: J. Grant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 12:10 PM To: Vincent Danen Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft Hi Vincent, And I thank you for that, James. The issue at this instant in time, if we could freeze on today, is not new users; it's existing users that aren't doing their part (freeloaders if you will). Mandrake Linux is perhaps one of the most popular Linux distributions out there, but you'd never know it in terms of money. One of out greatest strengths and, inevitably, our greatest weaknesses, is allowing the entire distro to be downloaded for nothing. Don't tell me that people out there don't take advantage of this and continue to download ISOs and use Mandrake all over the place without contributing a dime. These are the same people who will whine and complain if Mandrake ceases to exist, or who currently scream and yell if something doesn't work to their liking. I don't know. Maybe we need to go with SuSE's model and allow a one ISO demo a few months after release to prevent people from doing this. Then again, who wants to see Mandrake become another SuSE? I think the fact that Mandrake does this is, again, it's greatest strength and I'd hate to see that change as I think it would change the entire philosophy of the company. So is that really an option? I hope not. I noticed this issue, it is confounded by the fact that mdkstore releases are upto 1 month after the free (as in beer) downloads that I often have to take (even though i have an order in the post). Others might just not bother with the purchase of a box set if they download it, i've downloaded ISO's for several releases. If mdk can either speed up the release of cds in the shop or delay the ISO download release they can make 20% more cash I am sure. Please pass on my ideas Regards and happy new year JG Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
maybe they had to lay off the guys that answered the phones and emails :) seriously though, thats the difference between a small efficient business, and one that wants to be but isn't.. If people write in asking questions that will lead to mandrake making money.. you'd think it should be a priority for them to answer wouldn't you??? anything with queries about shareprices or problems with mandrakestore etc should have priority over nearly anything else since they are the revenue streams that mandrake need.. god knows how much income mdk have lost by ignoring such emails.. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of J. Grant Sent: Friday, 27 December 2002 9:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft 2.27 €, but they are selling for 2.2 to us :) anyway i emailed them, they replied asking for my name, that was the last I have heard. perhaps the amount I wanted was not enough, but then asking users for support is never going to generate 300K €. JG Mcleod, Ian wrote: What are the Mandrake shares looking like right now? And why is Mandrake so disinterested in raising revenue out of Europe and North America. I swear I have emailed Mandrake 15 times asking how I can pay for a club membership - not ONE reply!! I am beginning to suspect that Mandrake is not too fussed about their financial health.. Shame really - I really like Mandrake! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Thu, 2002-12-26 at 10:55, Vincent Danen wrote: On Thursday, December 26, 2002, at 01:15 AM, James Sparenberg wrote: [...] So while James made some very good points, they're pretty much irrelevant to the topic at hand which is, looking at the subject line, Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft, which is happening *now*... not next year. Hope everyone had a great Christmas! I was commenting on the letter in the thread immediately before me, and if the short term doesn't include the long term (or vice versa ) It can be counter productive. If MDK had a million box sets in the stores right now. Making 5 bucks a crack... would 5 mill help the short term bottom line? Yes I know that it can often be 30 to 60 days before this Yes, but you're still missing the point, James. I don't know if there *are* a million boxed sets in stores right now. Oh I do get the point I'm just trying to extend it. BTW went to a local Fry's today (for those who don't know it's an electronics supermarket in California and Texas) They had 30 boxes of RH left and 15 SuSe. The gal working the software section said they got 75 roughly of each ... and of course one lone copy of MDK 8.2... This is why I feel that a million or even 500k isn't out of the question even with a 20% backwash from the channel it's still a healthy total (20% is very very high) Sure $5M would be helpful, it would be excellent! But if those boxes aren't there *today*, I fail to see how this helps us get to the point where we will be putting that number of boxes on store shelves. My point... why aren't they there? Why isn't McMillian pushing them out the door? comes in but this kind of recievable would have possibly prevented the pull out of certain funds MDK was expecting (taken from the website announcement.) I don't wish or desire to denigrate the original letter.. I don't know about a pull-out of funds. It's been postponed/delayed according to the website announcement, not retracted or cancelled. but rather say yes I agree but more is needed for both short and long term success. I want to buy MDK 11.4 (yes I know they never get that high with sub numbers *grin*) I just hope there won't be another crisis like this right after 9.1 comes out, but the pattern is in place. I'm a club member, I buy my disks (not just download them, although I do that while waiting for my disks) I encourage others to buy not download. And right now... I'm tapped. My company is reaching an equally tight cash situation... but then again we are still privately funded with no Angel or Vulture investment. (soon to change) And I thank you for that, James. The issue at this instant in time, if we could freeze on today, is not new users; it's existing users that aren't doing their part (freeloaders if you will). Mandrake Linux is perhaps one of the most popular Linux distributions out there, but you'd never know it in terms of money. One of out greatest strengths and, inevitably, our greatest weaknesses, is allowing the entire distro to be downloaded for nothing. Don't tell me that people out there don't take advantage of this and continue to download ISOs and use Mandrake all over the place without contributing a dime. These are the same people who will whine and complain if Mandrake ceases to exist, or who currently scream and yell if something doesn't work to their liking. I don't know. Maybe we need to go with SuSE's model and allow a one ISO demo a few months after release to prevent people from doing this. Then again, who wants to see Mandrake become another SuSE? I think the fact that Mandrake does this is, again, it's greatest strength and I'd hate to see that change as I think it would change the entire philosophy of the company. So is that really an option? I hope not. At any rate, I don't think there is much value in debating/discussing this further. The real value is for people to step up and do something to keep their distribution alive. That's right... *their* distribution; it isn't our distro. It's *your* distro. We have opened the process so much that almost anyone can put their mark on the distro it is, essentially, a community distribution that we just maintain and put the nuts and bolts on. If having that kind of distribution is important to people, I trust they put their money into it to ensure it's survival. I don't want to sit here and become an evangelist for Mandrake... that's not my job. But I do feel that certain things need to be understood about how all of this works. I also don't want anyone to feel we are neglecting the long term for the sake of the short term as that is not the case at all. I've said enough on this particular thread. I think it's time to have actions speak instead of words. Thanks. -- MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/ lynx
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 14:13 +0800, Franki wrote: If people write in asking questions that will lead to mandrake making money.. you'd think it should be a priority for them to answer wouldn't you??? anything with queries about shareprices or problems with mandrakestore etc should have priority over nearly anything else since they are the revenue streams that mandrake need.. god knows how much income mdk have lost by ignoring such emails.. Now you got me really curious. All I read here is I mailed Mandrake but never got an answer!. Well, which address did you send your mails to exactly? I often read that and when I ask they give me some address which is not even remotely connected with the issue at hand. I often receive such a mail because somewhere my address is on the site as German translator. OK, I always forward those mails because I have enough time and I don't get too much mails per day. So where did you send your mails? Oh, and *why* did you send those mails? There are web pages which answer your questions. There is another mail in this thread which lists all the relevant pages. wobo -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Wednesday 25 December 2002 11:31 am, tarvid wrote: PayPal, here I come. Argh. Sign up for PayPal. Then get their debit card. Then you can either transfer money into the PayPal account or they can hot your bank account directly. It will take a few days (2 or 3) but it comes in handy at times like this. There are horror storeis about PayPal around the web but I have used PayPal for several hundred transactions without a hitch. Jim Tarvid [SNIPT] : 2. All of you are desperately needed to complete the push to get Mandrakesoft on a self-sustaining level. Allrighty - make it easier for me to join the club - I *don't* have a credit card -- john in sydney Mandrake Linux 9.0, Kernel version: 2.4.19-16mdk OpenPGP key available on www.keyserver.net 1024D/3E4A902F B38A AB0F 8658 D9E1 4900 3050 08FA D4FA 3E4A 902F Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Tuesday 24 December 2002 07:47 pm, you wrote: On Wednesday 25 December 2002 11:31 am, tarvid wrote: PayPal, here I come. Argh. Sign up for PayPal. Then get their debit card. Then you can either transfer money into the PayPal account or they can hot your bank account directly. It will take a few days (2 or 3) but it comes in handy at times like this. There are horror storeis about PayPal around the web but I have used PayPal for several hundred transactions without a hitch. Jim Tarvid [SNIPT] 2. All of you are desperately needed to complete the push to get Mandrakesoft on a self-sustaining level. Allrighty - make it easier for me to join the club - I *don't* have a credit card You can probably just mail them a check.I bought a hat and a t-shirt. It's all to the good. Mike -- ~ Mandrake 8.2 Kernel-2.4.18-8.1mdk Wed Dec 25 18:16:14 EST 2002 6:16pm up 21:41, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Homepage: http://micronuke.tripod.com/ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Tue, 2002-12-24 at 12:53, Vincent Danen wrote: On Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 12:37 PM, mike wrote: [...] I don't think the vampires would respond as they have nothing to do with MandrakeSoft anymore. =) Mandrake is a great distribution and I hope it stays around.I believe an open source project should be a lean machine.I think Mandrake needs to take inventory and trim the fat.Focus on what they do best.Long Live Mandrake. And just what do you think we've been doing over the last few months? =) I'd say a lot of fat has been trimmed. The machine is *really* lean right now... thus the increase of capital. This is required for Mandrake to remain any kind of machine. The end result will be a lean machine (not too lean, mind you... can't put out a distro with only 10 people!). Bottom line is this: It's time for people to step up to the plate and walk the walk, not just talk the talk. We've done what we had to do, and very painfully at times, to get MandrakeSoft where it is right now... we had a *lot* to recover from, which civileme touched on. We've done that. But for us to continue, the community has to show a little support. I know what I want to be doing next Christmas.. playing with Mandrake 9.2. The question is, what do you want to be doing next Christmas? Also playing with Mandrake 9.2 or being frustrated at having to use a lesser distribution? Or another OS entirely? For those who feel similar sentiments (ie. Long Live Mandrake and I hope it stays around), I would sincerely ask you to put your money where your mouth is. It's one thing to say you would like Mandrake to be around forever and how much you love it, it's an entirely different story to support the cause financially. I would also recommend that, despite some problems a few people have had, people purchase their boxed sets of Mandrake from MandrakeStore. We see a lot more revenue this way than if you go down the block to whatever store you shop at and purchase it. Putting money into distributor and retailer pockets doesn't help MandrakeSoft. Some short comings in this statement First it ensures that the only people who can find out how to purchase a boxes set are people who have in the past used MDK... no growth here and since this limits growth it almost garauntees that the user base will be a negative growth not a positive one. Second. Younger users are often discriminated against. So is anyone else who doesn't have/use credit cards. Third. Common business error in the Software industry. I wan't it all or nothing at all. Just ask M$. which is better 25 dollars on a thousand users or 5 dollars on a Million? Any company that want's to succeed has to play the game of dealing with large numbers. You can't gouge a small market you have to cut a deal with a larger group. The numbers I've heard (not official) is that RH sold about 7 million box sets in the US last year through retail. Now if they only made an average of 10 dollars (US) that's 70 million before taxes... Could MDK use 1/3 of that? Putting money into Retailer Pockets and Distributor pockets does help MDK. Scenario, I own a business, Selling your product makes me money... I'm going to do everything I can to sell as much of your product as I can. The more I sell the more money we BOTH make. You don't spend money on adds I do. You don't spend money on shelf space or marketing, I do... BUT we both make money. Much of the I have to have it all attitude is a very propriatory M$ attitude. GM lets you sell car parts and add ons. They know, the more you sell the more they sell. (How many people here bought a car because of the cool add ons that car had?) Remember too that GM is the largest open source company in the world. You buy a car you own it. (No EULA) You can resell it. Source Code is available (aka Shop Manuals) You can build your own if you want. (The chances of me building my own car are greater than the chance I'm going to write my own kernel.) I can mix and match parts (Ford body chevy engine Custom Interior.) That's open source. I can build modify and repair to my hearst content. Nothing wrong with selling it yourself but there is more money in having someone else sell it for you. Remember M$ doesn't sell directly copies of Oriface or Windwoes to the consumer, But I can walk into any store in the US and find a copy, or order it online from dozens of stores. Again the large numbers game. If only 1% of the consumers buy and you show it to 10,000 you get 100 customers. But if 10,000,000 see it you get 100,000 customers. James If a box set isn't that important to you (ie. you don't need nice packaging and a printed manual), then getting a MandrakeClub subscription is the best way to go. Club generates the highest percentage of revenue, and every penny counts. Plus, with Club, all the goodies you get on your CDs in the box
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Wed, 2002-12-25 at 22:31, James Sparenberg wrote: Some short comings in this statement First it ensures that the only people who can find out how to purchase a boxes set are people who have in the past used MDK... That is exactly right. That is the context of this (Vincent's) message; this is a short term solution, Vincent was not presenting this post as a catch all philosophy for long term growth; it was a gesture to those of us in the community who already have an online relationship with Mandrakesoft. no growth here and since this limits growth it almost garauntees that the user base will be a negative growth not a positive one. If the premise was long term growth you would be correct, but that is not the case. Second. Younger users are often discriminated against. So is anyone else who doesn't have/use credit cards. Your very first statement is the correct one, therefore it negates the above in the context of long term growth. Third. Common business error in the Software industry. I wan't it all or nothing at all. Just ask M$. which is better 25 dollars on a thousand users or 5 dollars on a Million? Any company that want's to succeed has to play the game of dealing with large numbers. You can't gouge a small market you have to cut a deal with a larger group. The numbers I've heard (not official) is that RH sold about 7 million box sets in the US last year through retail. Now if they only made an average of 10 dollars (US) that's 70 million before taxes... Could MDK use 1/3 of that? Your entire message here is predicated on the assumption that this is long term strategy. I am positive that it is not MDK's resolution to alienate retailers such as best buy or yourself. Since Vincent's message is premised by being a short term solution for a short term cash crunch, your concerns here are not something to worry about. SNIP REST James If a box set isn't that important to you (ie. you don't need nice packaging and a printed manual), then getting a MandrakeClub subscription is the best way to go. Club generates the highest percentage of revenue, and every penny counts. Plus, with Club, all the goodies you get on your CDs in the box set you can get online (great for broadband users, maybe not so great for dialup users). All these things will help keep Mandrake alive. Happy holidays, LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Wednesday, December 25, 2002, at 10:57 PM, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:
Some short comings in this statement
First it ensures that the only people who can find out how to
purchase
a boxes set are people who have in the past used MDK...
That is exactly right. That is the context of this (Vincent's)
message;
this is a short term solution, Vincent was not presenting this post as
a
catch all philosophy for long term growth; it was a gesture to those of
us in the community who already have an online relationship with
Mandrakesoft.
Thanks, Lyvim. You've got the idea right on. I'm not talking about
long term at all... would we like to see Mandrake boxes in every
Walmart, Best Buy, Future Shop, K-Mart, Zellers, (insert your favourite
computer or all-purpose store here)? Absolutely! Will they have it
tomorrow? No. Will this help us with the recently posted call to
arms? No.
Those are all long term goals and while I'm not involved in that aspect
of the company, I'm sure these things are being worked on, but those
things take time. Time we don't have if our existing user base doesn't
step forward.
It's great to be thinking long term but, at this point in time, a
little premature to think long term and sacrifice the short term. I'm
afraid if we concentrated on long term and neglected the short term,
there will *be* no long term.
So while James made some very good points, they're pretty much
irrelevant to the topic at hand which is, looking at the subject line,
Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft, which is happening *now*... not
next year.
Hope everyone had a great Christmas!
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
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Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
Civilme... Welcome back... your advice has been missed but I must admit some like Todd have been a big help in fielding the really tough ones. As for MDK... Just wish 9.0 would make it to the stores before 9.1 comes out... Ok ... so it's not quite that bad... But I do own a boxed copy of every release since and including 7.0. and currently have a lower level membership... and as soon as I start getting a regular check (new company pre fundingwhy did I do this to myself?) I'll upgrade. I have given people MDK... but ... I take the cd's back (they get to use the GPL'd disks from my power-packs) Then I show them what they could have *grin* and of course to use urpmi effectively they really should have the cd's right? Sold my fair share of them this way James. On Mon, 2002-12-23 at 18:18, civileme wrote: I have some good news and some urgent news 1. I will be returning to the lists. I will have an email address that can handle list level traffic. 2. All of you are desperately needed to complete the push to get Mandrakesoft on a self-sustaining level. For the second one, here is the real story: Mandrakesoft started on a shoestring and a hope, originally as a spare-time project for one person. It was immensely popular from inception and soon MADE A PROFIT. Then arrived the venture capitalists They invested monies but wanted an international team of executives to manage the company. Such a team was acquired. Under that team, the expenses went up about 400% without a concomitant increase in revenue. The direction was modified from a linux distributor to an internet education company with a hook to linux. The soundness of that idea was never proven, as the dot.com bubble burst and investors worldwide went into full retreat. For Mandrakesoft this was a curse and a blessing. The curse was the negative cash position and high burn rate and the blessing was a return to being a linux company. Mandrakesoft has made huge strides in bringing revenue up to meet expenses and in cutting expenses. They tended to trust the word of others which has made their forecasts look overly optimistic several times. But now the break-even point, in the worst-case scenario, is in sight and in a few months. The short term still requires more cash than they have now, to get out that next release. In that next release will be a special piece of software I am contributing. With little to do since my layoff, I have designed a semi-intelligent linux binary installer that can handle most of what you are able to download. It even has hooks to look for things like WineX and to attempt to install windows executables if you have an emulator for them. But if you want to see that next release, consider a club membership or giving club memberships as Christmas gifts or buying stock at approximately the right price. (BTW, MIcrosoft stock which sells at Like $52 /share has 8 billion shares outstanding on a company that earns $25 billion a year in revenue BEFORE expenses-- I call that a heavily watered stock) Mandrakesoft stock is selling for what the company is probably worth. Remember its assets are PEOPLE and their products. People like Pixel and Gael Duval and Denis Havlik and Guillaume Cottenceau make the product and the company what it is. Mandrake also has a hidden asset in the loyalty of contributors, And they are finally selling the right way--software is free if you want it and rather expensive if you expect extensive support. So anyway, expect to see me return to the lists now that I have an email that will handle it without quota problems and (I hope) without any more crack attacks or DDOSes which is what originally set me to dropping my mailserver and forwarding to a hidden webmail host. Still loyal to MandrakeLinux, Civileme __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
Hi Mate, I was wondering where you are ... This List isn't the same without you ... Regarding your Mail. I do agree that something needs to be done and I will do so. But as a developper, I do not like much Workarounds - as the main issue here are the Head People (Top Management) that screwed - and they need to be made responsible for their mistakes. civileme wrote: [...] Then arrived the venture capitalists They invested monies but wanted an international team of executives to manage the company. Such a team was acquired. Under that team, the expenses went up about 400% without a concomitant increase in revenue. The direction was modified from a linux distributor to an internet education company with a hook to linux. Well - the Problem with these Venture capitalist is that you need to hire Managers/Directors/Consultants etc. and to pay them - unfortunatly - they do not really bring something productive into the company. The company then has to lay off appro. 2 Employees/Manager, 6 Employees/Consultant, 30 Employees per Director to pay their salaries/fees - and that's why I lost total respect on those people. They may restructure the Company, but they break quite heavily what existed before, lay off the expertise that is required to sustain them as they do not think in Term of Knowledge - but only in terms of Cash. Even in the Company I work now - we feel the same level of problems (When I started, Europe had about 990 Employees, now about 300 are left). My Idea would be to reset the Mandrake-Soft into a GPL'd System - Similar to the Debian group - and continue. As long as these Directors/Managers will be there - they will shout for Cash, Income etc. without really contributing something to it. Remember - everywhere you have High Level Managers/Directors etc. - there is a potential guy with no real understanding on the matter that can blow it. And the Day they leave a company - they get even paid for leaving it... We should make them responsible for the Live of a company with their personal goods ! In this way - they'd be looking at what they screw ! or not ... So - the only sure way to have something survive that actually has a very high impact and is loved by the People who use it - is to keep it small - and lay off all these unneeded Directors/Consultants that are to be considered as vampires sucking out the living substance of what is a healthy company. Having people who know how it works, with a little bit on Finance knowledge - should be enough to get a company up and running within the selfsustaining costs. Just my 2cents... PS: If someone from Mandrakesoft could forward this to the Vampires and tell me what they Think - I'd be happy to know their answers. Cherio The Smurph -- | Joerg Mertin : [EMAIL PROTECTED](Home)| | in Neuchâtel/Schweiz : [EMAIL PROTECTED](Work)| | Stardust's LiNUX System : | | PGP 2.6.3in Key on Demand : Voice Fax: +41(0)32 / 725 52 54 | Home-Page: http://www.solsys.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Monday 23 December 2002 09:18 pm, you wrote: I have some good news and some urgent news 1. I will be returning to the lists. I will have an email address that can handle list level traffic. Yeah, Civileme - you rock! :-) -- /\ Dark Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Tuesday 24 Dec 2002 H:18 am, civileme wrote: I have some good news and some urgent news 1. I will be returning to the lists. I will have an email address that can handle list level traffic. This is indeed a present to make it Christmas to remember, welcome back and a Merry Christmas to you, your family, and while I'm at it, all on these lists. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 04:49 AM, Joerg Mertin wrote:
I was wondering where you are ... This List isn't the same without you
...
Regarding your Mail. I do agree that something needs to be done and I
will do so. But as a developper, I do not like much Workarounds - as
the main issue here are the Head People (Top Management) that screwed
- and they need to be made responsible for their mistakes.
civileme wrote:
[...]
Then arrived the venture capitalists
They invested monies but wanted an international team of executives to
manage the company. Such a team was acquired.
Under that team, the expenses went up about 400% without a concomitant
increase in revenue. The direction was modified from a linux
distributor to an internet education company with a hook to linux.
[...]
My Idea would be to reset the Mandrake-Soft into a GPL'd System -
Similar to the Debian group - and continue. As long as these
Directors/Managers will be there - they will shout for Cash, Income
etc. without really contributing something to it.
This has been done a long time ago. The individuals civileme was
referring to have not been with the company for some time.
Remember - everywhere you have High Level Managers/Directors etc. -
there is a potential guy with no real understanding on the matter that
can blow it. And the Day they leave a company - they get even paid for
leaving it... We should make them responsible for the Live of a
company with their personal goods ! In this way - they'd be looking at
what they screw ! or not ...
So - the only sure way to have something survive that actually has a
very high impact and is loved by the People who use it - is to keep it
small - and lay off all these unneeded Directors/Consultants that are
to be considered as vampires sucking out the living substance of what
is a healthy company.
Having people who know how it works, with a little bit on Finance
knowledge - should be enough to get a company up and running within
the selfsustaining costs.
Again, they're gone, and have been for some time. That's the only
reason why things are as good as they are now... if they had remained
on board, I think MandrakeSoft would be history right now.
Just my 2cents...
PS: If someone from Mandrakesoft could forward this to the Vampires
and tell me what they Think - I'd be happy to know their answers.
I don't think the vampires would respond as they have nothing to do
with MandrakeSoft anymore. =)
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
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Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Tuesday 24 December 2002 02:21 pm, you wrote: On Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 04:49 AM, Joerg Mertin wrote: I was wondering where you are ... This List isn't the same without you ... Regarding your Mail. I do agree that something needs to be done and I will do so. But as a developper, I do not like much Workarounds - as the main issue here are the Head People (Top Management) that screwed - and they need to be made responsible for their mistakes. civileme wrote: [...] Then arrived the venture capitalists They invested monies but wanted an international team of executives to manage the company. Such a team was acquired. Under that team, the expenses went up about 400% without a concomitant increase in revenue. The direction was modified from a linux distributor to an internet education company with a hook to linux. [...] My Idea would be to reset the Mandrake-Soft into a GPL'd System - Similar to the Debian group - and continue. As long as these Directors/Managers will be there - they will shout for Cash, Income etc. without really contributing something to it. This has been done a long time ago. The individuals civileme was referring to have not been with the company for some time. Remember - everywhere you have High Level Managers/Directors etc. - there is a potential guy with no real understanding on the matter that can blow it. And the Day they leave a company - they get even paid for leaving it... We should make them responsible for the Live of a company with their personal goods ! In this way - they'd be looking at what they screw ! or not ... So - the only sure way to have something survive that actually has a very high impact and is loved by the People who use it - is to keep it small - and lay off all these unneeded Directors/Consultants that are to be considered as vampires sucking out the living substance of what is a healthy company. Having people who know how it works, with a little bit on Finance knowledge - should be enough to get a company up and running within the selfsustaining costs. Again, they're gone, and have been for some time. That's the only reason why things are as good as they are now... if they had remained on board, I think MandrakeSoft would be history right now. Just my 2cents... PS: If someone from Mandrakesoft could forward this to the Vampires and tell me what they Think - I'd be happy to know their answers. I don't think the vampires would respond as they have nothing to do with MandrakeSoft anymore. =) Mandrake is a great distribution and I hope it stays around.I believe an open source project should be a lean machine.I think Mandrake needs to take inventory and trim the fat.Focus on what they do best.Long Live Mandrake. Mike -- http://micronuke.tripod.com/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 12:37 PM, mike wrote:
[...]
I don't think the vampires would respond as they have nothing to do
with MandrakeSoft anymore. =)
Mandrake is a great distribution and I hope it stays around.I believe
an open
source project should be a lean machine.I think Mandrake needs to take
inventory and trim the fat.Focus on what they do best.Long Live
Mandrake.
And just what do you think we've been doing over the last few months?
=)
I'd say a lot of fat has been trimmed. The machine is *really* lean
right now... thus the increase of capital. This is required for
Mandrake to remain any kind of machine. The end result will be a lean
machine (not too lean, mind you... can't put out a distro with only 10
people!).
Bottom line is this: It's time for people to step up to the plate and
walk the walk, not just talk the talk. We've done what we had to do,
and very painfully at times, to get MandrakeSoft where it is right
now... we had a *lot* to recover from, which civileme touched on.
We've done that. But for us to continue, the community has to show a
little support.
I know what I want to be doing next Christmas.. playing with Mandrake
9.2. The question is, what do you want to be doing next Christmas?
Also playing with Mandrake 9.2 or being frustrated at having to use a
lesser distribution? Or another OS entirely?
For those who feel similar sentiments (ie. Long Live Mandrake and I
hope it stays around), I would sincerely ask you to put your money
where your mouth is. It's one thing to say you would like Mandrake to
be around forever and how much you love it, it's an entirely different
story to support the cause financially.
I would also recommend that, despite some problems a few people have
had, people purchase their boxed sets of Mandrake from MandrakeStore.
We see a lot more revenue this way than if you go down the block to
whatever store you shop at and purchase it. Putting money into
distributor and retailer pockets doesn't help MandrakeSoft. If a box
set isn't that important to you (ie. you don't need nice packaging and
a printed manual), then getting a MandrakeClub subscription is the best
way to go. Club generates the highest percentage of revenue, and every
penny counts. Plus, with Club, all the goodies you get on your CDs in
the box set you can get online (great for broadband users, maybe not so
great for dialup users).
All these things will help keep Mandrake alive.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
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Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Tue, 2002-12-24 at 12:53, Vincent Danen wrote: I would also recommend that, despite some problems a few people have had, people purchase their boxed sets of Mandrake from MandrakeStore. We see a lot more revenue this way than if you go down the block to whatever store you shop at and purchase it. Putting money into distributor and retailer pockets doesn't help MandrakeSoft. If a box set isn't that important to you (ie. you don't need nice packaging and a printed manual), then getting a MandrakeClub subscription is the best way to go. Club generates the highest percentage of revenue, and every penny counts. Plus, with Club, all the goodies you get on your CDs in the box set you can get online (great for broadband users, maybe not so great for dialup users). All these things will help keep Mandrake alive. I just upgraded to silver. merry christmas, -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Tuesday 24 December 2002 04:15 pm, you wrote: On Tue, 2002-12-24 at 12:53, Vincent Danen wrote: I would also recommend that, despite some problems a few people have had, people purchase their boxed sets of Mandrake from MandrakeStore. We see a lot more revenue this way than if you go down the block to whatever store you shop at and purchase it. Putting money into distributor and retailer pockets doesn't help MandrakeSoft. If a box set isn't that important to you (ie. you don't need nice packaging and a printed manual), then getting a MandrakeClub subscription is the best way to go. Club generates the highest percentage of revenue, and every penny counts. Plus, with Club, all the goodies you get on your CDs in the box set you can get online (great for broadband users, maybe not so great for dialup users). All these things will help keep Mandrake alive. I just upgraded to silver. merry christmas, I bought a t-shirt and a cap. Mike -- Mandrake 8.2 2.4.18-8.1mdk http://micronuke.tripod.com/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Tue, 2002-12-24 at 15:53, Vincent Danen wrote:
On Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 12:37 PM, mike wrote:
[...]
I don't think the vampires would respond as they have nothing to do
with MandrakeSoft anymore. =)
Mandrake is a great distribution and I hope it stays around.I believe
an open
source project should be a lean machine.I think Mandrake needs to take
inventory and trim the fat.Focus on what they do best.Long Live
Mandrake.
And just what do you think we've been doing over the last few months?
=)
I'd say a lot of fat has been trimmed. The machine is *really* lean
right now... thus the increase of capital. This is required for
Mandrake to remain any kind of machine. The end result will be a lean
machine (not too lean, mind you... can't put out a distro with only 10
people!).
The fact of the matter is that TOO much fat was trimmed. The muscle was
getting sliced. There were good people that were laid off that should
have never had to go because they were productives, but yet were forced
to because of the clueless venture capitalists.
We need to get Mandrake back to the point where they can start hiring
again and bring some folks back on board.
Bottom line is this: It's time for people to step up to the plate and
walk the walk, not just talk the talk. We've done what we had to do,
and very painfully at times, to get MandrakeSoft where it is right
now... we had a *lot* to recover from, which civileme touched on.
We've done that. But for us to continue, the community has to show a
little support.
Amen. I've transferred funds out of savings for this, and when they
become available after Christmas, I'm upgrading to silver. Even though
technically I can't afford it right now. But I'm going to feel some
personal pain in order to get this done, because that's how much I
believe in this company and what they do.
If there was a Lug started here, I'd be pushing Mandrake for all it is
worth.
I know what I want to be doing next Christmas.. playing with Mandrake
9.2. The question is, what do you want to be doing next Christmas?
Also playing with Mandrake 9.2 or being frustrated at having to use a
lesser distribution? Or another OS entirely?
Excellent point.
For those who feel similar sentiments (ie. Long Live Mandrake and I
hope it stays around), I would sincerely ask you to put your money
where your mouth is. It's one thing to say you would like Mandrake to
be around forever and how much you love it, it's an entirely different
story to support the cause financially.
I would also recommend that, despite some problems a few people have
had, people purchase their boxed sets of Mandrake from MandrakeStore.
We see a lot more revenue this way than if you go down the block to
whatever store you shop at and purchase it. Putting money into
distributor and retailer pockets doesn't help MandrakeSoft.
I made this suggestion too, quite some time ago; hopefully the majority
of folks have been going to the Mandrake store.
If a box
set isn't that important to you (ie. you don't need nice packaging and
a printed manual), then getting a MandrakeClub subscription is the best
way to go. Club generates the highest percentage of revenue, and every
penny counts. Plus, with Club, all the goodies you get on your CDs in
the box set you can get online (great for broadband users, maybe not so
great for dialup users).
All these things will help keep Mandrake alive.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD: 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}
Excellent post. And merry christmas, Vincent. :)
--LX
--
°°°
Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2
Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk
Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/
°°°
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Tuesday 24 December 2002 01:18 pm, civileme wrote: I have some good news and some urgent news 1. I will be returning to the lists. I will have an email address that can handle list level traffic. Welcome back - its great to see such loyalty, and expertise not going to waste :) 2. All of you are desperately needed to complete the push to get Mandrakesoft on a self-sustaining level. Allrighty - make it easier for me to join the club - I *don't* have a credit card -- john in sydney = Mandrake Linux 9.0 Kernel version: 2.4.19-16mdk Uptime: minutes = Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
Argh. Sign up for PayPal. Then get their debit card. Then you can either transfer money into the PayPal account or they can hot your bank account directly. It will take a few days (2 or 3) but it comes in handy at times like this. There are horror storeis about PayPal around the web but I have used PayPal for several hundred transactions without a hitch. Jim Tarvid On Tuesday 24 December 2002 05:34 pm, John Haywood wrote: On Tuesday 24 December 2002 01:18 pm, civileme wrote: I have some good news and some urgent news 1. I will be returning to the lists. I will have an email address that can handle list level traffic. Welcome back - its great to see such loyalty, and expertise not going to waste :) : 2. All of you are desperately needed to complete the push to get Mandrakesoft on a self-sustaining level. Allrighty - make it easier for me to join the club - I *don't* have a credit card Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 03:22 PM, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: [...] And just what do you think we've been doing over the last few months? =) I'd say a lot of fat has been trimmed. The machine is *really* lean right now... thus the increase of capital. This is required for Mandrake to remain any kind of machine. The end result will be a lean machine (not too lean, mind you... can't put out a distro with only 10 people!). The fact of the matter is that TOO much fat was trimmed. The muscle was getting sliced. There were good people that were laid off that should have never had to go because they were productives, but yet were forced to because of the clueless venture capitalists. I agree. We lost some extremely valuable people due to the restructuring, and no one was happy about it. Unfortunately, it was either lose them or lose everyone; there was no choice. We need to get Mandrake back to the point where they can start hiring again and bring some folks back on board. Trust me, no one would like to see this more than MandrakeSoft itself. =) When MandrakeSoft is at a position where we make a continuous profit, beyond the break even point, then everyone will know that the distribution is receiving full attention. It's unfortunate that we've been unable to do that... keeping the company afloat and trying to raise some money has made people spend more time thinking about the company than what the company produces, which is understandable. However, I think everyone will be happier when we can focus our full attention on the distribution and creating new and exciting services and products because worrying about money will be a thing of the past. That goal is exactly what we've been striving for for months. This isn't something we started doing yesterday, or last month, or even in the last two months. This has been an ongoing struggle to keep Mandrake Linux alive. Bottom line is this: It's time for people to step up to the plate and walk the walk, not just talk the talk. We've done what we had to do, and very painfully at times, to get MandrakeSoft where it is right now... we had a *lot* to recover from, which civileme touched on. We've done that. But for us to continue, the community has to show a little support. Amen. I've transferred funds out of savings for this, and when they become available after Christmas, I'm upgrading to silver. Even though technically I can't afford it right now. But I'm going to feel some personal pain in order to get this done, because that's how much I believe in this company and what they do. Lyvim, that is *so* appreciated, and I will personally thank you (and everyone else who shows their support in this manner) for doing so. It means so much to me, and I think everyone at MandrakeSoft, to see and hear users doing this. It not only illustrates to us that you care, but that you have a vested interest in the future of MandrakeSoft, which means we're not doing all of this for nothing. I can tell you now that the MandrakeSoft employees have made a lot of sacrifices to keep things going this long. I also know that many of us go far beyond what would be expected of us in any other job. To see that all of the extra time and effort given by the MandrakeSoft staff is of value to you (enough value that you are willing to pay for it), is highly encouraging. If there was a Lug started here, I'd be pushing Mandrake for all it is worth. Somewhat deviating from the topic, but why not start one? I can't believe you're the only person using Linux wherever you live... =) I know what I want to be doing next Christmas.. playing with Mandrake 9.2. The question is, what do you want to be doing next Christmas? Also playing with Mandrake 9.2 or being frustrated at having to use a lesser distribution? Or another OS entirely? Excellent point. For those who feel similar sentiments (ie. Long Live Mandrake and I hope it stays around), I would sincerely ask you to put your money where your mouth is. It's one thing to say you would like Mandrake to be around forever and how much you love it, it's an entirely different story to support the cause financially. I would also recommend that, despite some problems a few people have had, people purchase their boxed sets of Mandrake from MandrakeStore. We see a lot more revenue this way than if you go down the block to whatever store you shop at and purchase it. Putting money into distributor and retailer pockets doesn't help MandrakeSoft. I made this suggestion too, quite some time ago; hopefully the majority of folks have been going to the Mandrake store. Me too. I don't know what the exact figures are because I'm quite far removed from MandrakeStore and the financials of the company, but I suspect that we are probably losing a large percentage of potential revenue each time someone buys from a store instead of from us directly. Granted, even when you buy a boxed set direct
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
I too would hate to see a distro as good as Mandrake leave us. Being that im on disability (which dont pay much)it isnt easy to come up wit the funds but after chrstmas I will be upgrading my membership, purchasing a t-shirt (allways wanted one but never got around to it) and a boxed set. I've downloaded my fare share of iso's it's time I paid my dues. Maybe after I have my carpal tunnel surgery I can get employed as a Linux Admin :) Merry Xmas Mandrake -- Bill Beauchemin www.billbeau.net Home of Beau's Bullet and Beautie Goldens Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
I have some good news and some urgent news 1. I will be returning to the lists. I will have an email address that can handle list level traffic. 2. All of you are desperately needed to complete the push to get Mandrakesoft on a self-sustaining level. For the second one, here is the real story: Mandrakesoft started on a shoestring and a hope, originally as a spare-time project for one person. It was immensely popular from inception and soon MADE A PROFIT. Then arrived the venture capitalists They invested monies but wanted an international team of executives to manage the company. Such a team was acquired. Under that team, the expenses went up about 400% without a concomitant increase in revenue. The direction was modified from a linux distributor to an internet education company with a hook to linux. The soundness of that idea was never proven, as the dot.com bubble burst and investors worldwide went into full retreat. For Mandrakesoft this was a curse and a blessing. The curse was the negative cash position and high burn rate and the blessing was a return to being a linux company. Mandrakesoft has made huge strides in bringing revenue up to meet expenses and in cutting expenses. They tended to trust the word of others which has made their forecasts look overly optimistic several times. But now the break-even point, in the worst-case scenario, is in sight and in a few months. The short term still requires more cash than they have now, to get out that next release. In that next release will be a special piece of software I am contributing. With little to do since my layoff, I have designed a semi-intelligent linux binary installer that can handle most of what you are able to download. It even has hooks to look for things like WineX and to attempt to install windows executables if you have an emulator for them. But if you want to see that next release, consider a club membership or giving club memberships as Christmas gifts or buying stock at approximately the right price. (BTW, MIcrosoft stock which sells at Like $52 /share has 8 billion shares outstanding on a company that earns $25 billion a year in revenue BEFORE expenses-- I call that a heavily watered stock) Mandrakesoft stock is selling for what the company is probably worth. Remember its assets are PEOPLE and their products. People like Pixel and Gael Duval and Denis Havlik and Guillaume Cottenceau make the product and the company what it is. Mandrake also has a hidden asset in the loyalty of contributors, And they are finally selling the right way--software is free if you want it and rather expensive if you expect extensive support. So anyway, expect to see me return to the lists now that I have an email that will handle it without quota problems and (I hope) without any more crack attacks or DDOSes which is what originally set me to dropping my mailserver and forwarding to a hidden webmail host. Still loyal to MandrakeLinux, Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Mon, 2002-12-23 at 21:18, civileme wrote: I have some good news and some urgent news 1. I will be returning to the lists. I will have an email address that can handle list level traffic. 2. All of you are desperately needed to complete the push to get Mandrakesoft on a self-sustaining level. Right on. How many versions of mdk have we all downloaded, given to our friends, and used for nada. Let's pony up some cash unless we all want to start using another distro or (gulp) M$. -Mark For the second one, here is the real story: Mandrakesoft started on a shoestring and a hope, originally as a spare-time project for one person. It was immensely popular from inception and soon MADE A PROFIT. Then arrived the venture capitalists They invested monies but wanted an international team of executives to manage the company. Such a team was acquired. Under that team, the expenses went up about 400% without a concomitant increase in revenue. The direction was modified from a linux distributor to an internet education company with a hook to linux. The soundness of that idea was never proven, as the dot.com bubble burst and investors worldwide went into full retreat. For Mandrakesoft this was a curse and a blessing. The curse was the negative cash position and high burn rate and the blessing was a return to being a linux company. Mandrakesoft has made huge strides in bringing revenue up to meet expenses and in cutting expenses. They tended to trust the word of others which has made their forecasts look overly optimistic several times. But now the break-even point, in the worst-case scenario, is in sight and in a few months. The short term still requires more cash than they have now, to get out that next release. In that next release will be a special piece of software I am contributing. With little to do since my layoff, I have designed a semi-intelligent linux binary installer that can handle most of what you are able to download. It even has hooks to look for things like WineX and to attempt to install windows executables if you have an emulator for them. But if you want to see that next release, consider a club membership or giving club memberships as Christmas gifts or buying stock at approximately the right price. (BTW, MIcrosoft stock which sells at Like $52 /share has 8 billion shares outstanding on a company that earns $25 billion a year in revenue BEFORE expenses-- I call that a heavily watered stock) Mandrakesoft stock is selling for what the company is probably worth. Remember its assets are PEOPLE and their products. People like Pixel and Gael Duval and Denis Havlik and Guillaume Cottenceau make the product and the company what it is. Mandrake also has a hidden asset in the loyalty of contributors, And they are finally selling the right way--software is free if you want it and rather expensive if you expect extensive support. So anyway, expect to see me return to the lists now that I have an email that will handle it without quota problems and (I hope) without any more crack attacks or DDOSes which is what originally set me to dropping my mailserver and forwarding to a hidden webmail host. Still loyal to MandrakeLinux, Civileme __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Mark Belanger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
It truly is a merry Christmas (or whatever holiday you celebrate). Welcome back civileme, your absence has been felt by all over the past several months. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin * Bertin, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 - Original Message - From: civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 8:18 PM Subject: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft I have some good news and some urgent news 1. I will be returning to the lists. I will have an email address that can handle list level traffic. 2. All of you are desperately needed to complete the push to get Mandrakesoft on a self-sustaining level. For the second one, here is the real story: Mandrakesoft started on a shoestring and a hope, originally as a spare-time project for one person. It was immensely popular from inception and soon MADE A PROFIT. Then arrived the venture capitalists They invested monies but wanted an international team of executives to manage the company. Such a team was acquired. Under that team, the expenses went up about 400% without a concomitant increase in revenue. The direction was modified from a linux distributor to an internet education company with a hook to linux. The soundness of that idea was never proven, as the dot.com bubble burst and investors worldwide went into full retreat. For Mandrakesoft this was a curse and a blessing. The curse was the negative cash position and high burn rate and the blessing was a return to being a linux company. Mandrakesoft has made huge strides in bringing revenue up to meet expenses and in cutting expenses. They tended to trust the word of others which has made their forecasts look overly optimistic several times. But now the break-even point, in the worst-case scenario, is in sight and in a few months. The short term still requires more cash than they have now, to get out that next release. In that next release will be a special piece of software I am contributing. With little to do since my layoff, I have designed a semi-intelligent linux binary installer that can handle most of what you are able to download. It even has hooks to look for things like WineX and to attempt to install windows executables if you have an emulator for them. But if you want to see that next release, consider a club membership or giving club memberships as Christmas gifts or buying stock at approximately the right price. (BTW, MIcrosoft stock which sells at Like $52 /share has 8 billion shares outstanding on a company that earns $25 billion a year in revenue BEFORE expenses-- I call that a heavily watered stock) Mandrakesoft stock is selling for what the company is probably worth. Remember its assets are PEOPLE and their products. People like Pixel and Gael Duval and Denis Havlik and Guillaume Cottenceau make the product and the company what it is. Mandrake also has a hidden asset in the loyalty of contributors, And they are finally selling the right way--software is free if you want it and rather expensive if you expect extensive support. So anyway, expect to see me return to the lists now that I have an email that will handle it without quota problems and (I hope) without any more crack attacks or DDOSes which is what originally set me to dropping my mailserver and forwarding to a hidden webmail host. Still loyal to MandrakeLinux, Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
WB. I just ordered a few boxes for resale and a request for warrants which is about what I can do for the immediate term. Near term, demand generation is probably the key. It's past time for a Mandrake 9.0 party. We keep an image on the LAN and we might snag a few folks to come in and get the GPL version. We are pretty good at installations which we can offer as a service including stuff like phpGroupWare and osCommerce. Does anyone have a litany of Mandrake services which might encourage businesses to bite? Jim Tarvid On Monday 23 December 2002 09:18 pm, civileme wrote: I have some good news and some urgent news 1. I will be returning to the lists. I will have an email address that can handle list level traffic. 2. All of you are desperately needed to complete the push to get Mandrakesoft on a self-sustaining level. For the second one, here is the real story: Mandrakesoft started on a shoestring and a hope, originally as a spare-time project for one person. It was immensely popular from inception and soon MADE A PROFIT. Then arrived the venture capitalists They invested monies but wanted an international team of executives to manage the company. Such a team was acquired. Under that team, the expenses went up about 400% without a concomitant increase in revenue. The direction was modified from a linux distributor to an internet education company with a hook to linux. The soundness of that idea was never proven, as the dot.com bubble burst and investors worldwide went into full retreat. For Mandrakesoft this was a curse and a blessing. The curse was the negative cash position and high burn rate and the blessing was a return to being a linux company. Mandrakesoft has made huge strides in bringing revenue up to meet expenses and in cutting expenses. They tended to trust the word of others which has made their forecasts look overly optimistic several times. But now the break-even point, in the worst-case scenario, is in sight and in a few months. The short term still requires more cash than they have now, to get out that next release. In that next release will be a special piece of software I am contributing. With little to do since my layoff, I have designed a semi-intelligent linux binary installer that can handle most of what you are able to download. It even has hooks to look for things like WineX and to attempt to install windows executables if you have an emulator for them. But if you want to see that next release, consider a club membership or giving club memberships as Christmas gifts or buying stock at approximately the right price. (BTW, MIcrosoft stock which sells at Like $52 /share has 8 billion shares outstanding on a company that earns $25 billion a year in revenue BEFORE expenses-- I call that a heavily watered stock) Mandrakesoft stock is selling for what the company is probably worth. Remember its assets are PEOPLE and their products. People like Pixel and Gael Duval and Denis Havlik and Guillaume Cottenceau make the product and the company what it is. Mandrake also has a hidden asset in the loyalty of contributors, And they are finally selling the right way--software is free if you want it and rather expensive if you expect extensive support. So anyway, expect to see me return to the lists now that I have an email that will handle it without quota problems and (I hope) without any more crack attacks or DDOSes which is what originally set me to dropping my mailserver and forwarding to a hidden webmail host. Still loyal to MandrakeLinux, Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
Hi Civileme, Welcome back. I was wondering where you were. Merry Christmas to you. -Sridhar civileme wrote: I have some good news and some urgent news 1. I will be returning to the lists. I will have an email address that can handle list level traffic. 2. All of you are desperately needed to complete the push to get Mandrakesoft on a self-sustaining level. For the second one, here is the real story: Mandrakesoft started on a shoestring and a hope, originally as a spare-time project for one person. It was immensely popular from inception and soon MADE A PROFIT. Then arrived the venture capitalists They invested monies but wanted an international team of executives to manage the company. Such a team was acquired. Under that team, the expenses went up about 400% without a concomitant increase in revenue. The direction was modified from a linux distributor to an internet education company with a hook to linux. The soundness of that idea was never proven, as the dot.com bubble burst and investors worldwide went into full retreat. For Mandrakesoft this was a curse and a blessing. The curse was the negative cash position and high burn rate and the blessing was a return to being a linux company. Mandrakesoft has made huge strides in bringing revenue up to meet expenses and in cutting expenses. They tended to trust the word of others which has made their forecasts look overly optimistic several times. But now the break-even point, in the worst-case scenario, is in sight and in a few months. The short term still requires more cash than they have now, to get out that next release. In that next release will be a special piece of software I am contributing. With little to do since my layoff, I have designed a semi-intelligent linux binary installer that can handle most of what you are able to download. It even has hooks to look for things like WineX and to attempt to install windows executables if you have an emulator for them. But if you want to see that next release, consider a club membership or giving club memberships as Christmas gifts or buying stock at approximately the right price. (BTW, MIcrosoft stock which sells at Like $52 /share has 8 billion shares outstanding on a company that earns $25 billion a year in revenue BEFORE expenses-- I call that a heavily watered stock) Mandrakesoft stock is selling for what the company is probably worth. Remember its assets are PEOPLE and their products. People like Pixel and Gael Duval and Denis Havlik and Guillaume Cottenceau make the product and the company what it is. Mandrake also has a hidden asset in the loyalty of contributors, And they are finally selling the right way--software is free if you want it and rather expensive if you expect extensive support. So anyway, expect to see me return to the lists now that I have an email that will handle it without quota problems and (I hope) without any more crack attacks or DDOSes which is what originally set me to dropping my mailserver and forwarding to a hidden webmail host. Still loyal to MandrakeLinux, Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Increase of Capital for Mandrakesoft
On Monday 23 December 2002 07:18 pm, civileme wrote: I have some good news and some urgent news 1. I will be returning to the lists. I will have an email address that can handle list level traffic. Welcome back and happy holidays to you. Very sorry to hear you got laid off. For what it is worth I just started playing with the recently released Mandrake Security product mandrake released. I'm in the process of a full blown attack on it right now to see how it stands up. Looks VERY nice, very similar to the original, but more features and I'm sure more secure. A chance you will get hired back? 2. All of you are desperately needed to complete the push to get Mandrakesoft on a self-sustaining level. For the second one, here is the real story: Mandrakesoft started on a shoestring and a hope, originally as a spare-time project for one person. It was immensely popular from inception and soon MADE A PROFIT. Then arrived the venture capitalists They invested monies but wanted an international team of executives to manage the company. Such a team was acquired. Under that team, the expenses went up about 400% without a concomitant increase in revenue. The direction was modified from a linux distributor to an internet education company with a hook to linux. The soundness of that idea was never proven, as the dot.com bubble burst and investors worldwide went into full retreat. For Mandrakesoft this was a curse and a blessing. The curse was the negative cash position and high burn rate and the blessing was a return to being a linux company. Mandrakesoft has made huge strides in bringing revenue up to meet expenses and in cutting expenses. They tended to trust the word of others which has made their forecasts look overly optimistic several times. But now the break-even point, in the worst-case scenario, is in sight and in a few months. The short term still requires more cash than they have now, to get out that next release. In that next release will be a special piece of software I am contributing. With little to do since my layoff, I have designed a semi-intelligent linux binary installer that can handle most of what you are able to download. It even has hooks to look for things like WineX and to attempt to install windows executables if you have an emulator for them. But if you want to see that next release, consider a club membership or giving club memberships as Christmas gifts or buying stock at approximately the right price. (BTW, MIcrosoft stock which sells at Like $52 /share has 8 billion shares outstanding on a company that earns $25 billion a year in revenue BEFORE expenses-- I call that a heavily watered stock) Mandrakesoft stock is selling for what the company is probably worth. Remember its assets are PEOPLE and their products. People like Pixel and Gael Duval and Denis Havlik and Guillaume Cottenceau make the product and the company what it is. Mandrake also has a hidden asset in the loyalty of contributors, And they are finally selling the right way--software is free if you want it and rather expensive if you expect extensive support. So anyway, expect to see me return to the lists now that I have an email that will handle it without quota problems and (I hope) without any more crack attacks or DDOSes which is what originally set me to dropping my mailserver and forwarding to a hidden webmail host. Still loyal to MandrakeLinux, Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
