date:20050609



--- claudiouk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The Ego, Freud said, is primarily a bodily ego.
 After enlightenment 
 the body is still there and other people's bodies
 are still not one's
 own.. in the relative the same rules still apply.

Ego arises out of identification. Consciousness
identifies with the body and the mind to create a
sense of individuality. When this identification is no
longer occuring there is no ownership of anything.
There is no my body or your body. This distinction
in ignorance comes about because of the experience of
the ego. This does not mean that there is no sensory
distinction in enlightenment. Of course the sensory
distinction is there (people in UC don't walk into
walls!). But there is no longer mine and yours.
That is a distinction of ego. The ego, per its nature,
includes and excludes.




 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Fischer
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   on 6/8/05 11:45 PM, mathatbrahman at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
  
   And if the enlightened person says that in order
 to justify his 
  behavior,
   then fine. Nobody will mind if his body spends
 some time in jail.
  
  Nice. :-)
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: volunteer weekend at Livingston manor

Oh you are so bad Bob!

--- bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  on 6/8/05 11:53 PM, bbrigante at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
   Just got off the phone with Bevan's evil twin,
  
 
 
  Who's that?
 
 *
 
 http://www.millionaireplayboy.com/toys/fartingfb.php
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment



--- Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  An unenlightened person looks at an enlightened
 person
  and they appear to have desires. They talk, they
 move,
  they eat food, they do this and that, they prefer
 one
  thing over another.
 
 What is it that is actually driving the speach,
 movements, eating? 
 And when there are preferences, why is one thing
 preferred over 
 another? 
 
 If an answer is Brahman then does Brahman have a
 sense of I?.
 
 Rick Carlstrom

In waking state there is a foundational confound
between consciousness and the experiential sense of
I. This I is ego. Because consciousness is
projected into and identified with body/mind there is
a bound sense of self: individuality. This ego assumes
ownership for action. Thus in waking state we assume
that action occurs because I am intending it. But in
enlightenment it becomes rather clear that there is no
I to intend or not to intend anything. Action just
occurs or not occurs. Thoughts just occur or not
occur. Feelings just occur or not occur. There is no
I that takes ownership. The I actually does not
exist. But it appears to exist in waking state and is
confused with consciousness. What drives the
behavior/thought/feeling of the enlightened is what
drives everything phenomenal: God/Nature/Mystery,
whatever. This is actually driving people in waking
state too, but they think that subjective sense of I
is doing it. It's quite the delusion!  


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  In fact from the behavioral level
  there is no difference between the unenlightened
 and
  the enlightened. But the enlightened person is not
  there in the way the unenlightened person
 believes
  themselves to be. There is no sense  of I or
 mine
  in the enlightened person. There is no subjective
  self that sees itself as me or I . That just
  goes in enlightenment. The best an enlightened
 person
  can say is that they are nothing. They aren't
 there
  in they way an unenlightened person believes they
 are
  there. There is no personal identity or self in
  enlightenment. The mind can't understand this
 because
  it confounds a sense of individual self with
  consciousness. The two have no relationship what
 so
  ever. A personal self is a product of
 consciousness
  projecting into mind and experiencing itself as
 bound.
  
  
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: volunteer weekend at livingston manor



--- bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, George
 DeForest 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
  -- Original Message --
  Received: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 11:16:30 AM PDT
  From: NYC Maharishi Vedic School [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: volunteer weekend at livingston manor
  
  Dear Governors, Sidhas, and Meditators,
  
  Big things are happening at the Parliament of
 World Peace in 
 Livingston 
  Manor  
 
 *
 
 This 125 room rehab clearly seems designed to house
 the ~100 ladies 
 of Mother Divine back in their old home, leaving a
 few rooms 
 available for staff/residence course participants.
 
 Just got off the phone with Bevan's evil twin, who
 suggested that all 
 the talk about the 200 pundits coming to Vedic City
 are just to get 
 people thinking about the number 200, then the ole
 switcheroo will 
 bring in the 200 gents on Purusha to the trailer
 park...

The managerial skills of the TMO never stop amazing
me!





 
 
 
 
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
 
 
 


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment



--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 6/8/05 11:45 PM, mathatbrahman at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  ---Interesting theory, but the facts yell out re:
 MMY ...he has I,
  I, I...written all over him.  Still, he's
 Enlightened. (at least many
  believe. I believe he is).
   Take Adi Da (aka Franklin Jones). Haven't met him
 personally but
  have read all of his books, talked with his
 disciples, seen videos of
  him.  No doubt, he's Enlightened.  But WHAT an
 EGO.!!!  Nope, saying
  that Enlightned people are different and they
 have their own rules
  definitely contradicts some very bizarre behavior
 on their part, in
  some cases including immoral and even criminal
 behavior.  Standards
  have to apply to everyone.  Saying there's nobody
 there doesn't
  hold water, since the body is there and it is
 doing the behavior.
 
 And if the enlightened person says that in order to
 justify his behavior,
 then fine.

Only somebody in waking state with an ego would
justify behavior by claiming that nobody is doing
the behavior. What nonsense!


 Nobody will mind if his body spends
 some time in jail

Absolutely!

.





 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment



--- mathatbrahman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ---Interesting theory, but the facts yell out re:
 MMY ...he has I, 
 I, I...written all over him.  Still, he's
 Enlightened. (at least many 
 believe. I believe he is).

Of course MMY is enlightened. You see I written all
over him. That is an attribute of your perception.

  Take Adi Da (aka Franklin Jones). Haven't met him
 personally but 
 have read all of his books, talked with his
 disciples, seen videos of 
 him.  No doubt, he's Enlightened.  But WHAT an
 EGO.!!!

Love the guy's books. Again that is your perception.
I don't know if he has an ego or not. I certainly do
understand why you say this though.  

 Nope, saying 
 that Enlightned people are different

They are diffent


 and they have
 their own rules

own rules? What do you mean by that?

 
 definitely contradicts some very bizarre behavior on
 their part, in 
 some cases including immoral and even criminal
 behavior.

The enlightened are certainly capable of what is
called, from a waking state perspective, immoral and
criminal behavior.


 Standards 
 have to apply to everyone.

Of course. We function in a complex social system. I
assume here that what you mean by standards are social
standards.

 Saying there's nobody
 there doesn't 
 hold water, since the body is there and it is
 doing the behavior.

The experiential reality of enlightenment is that
there is no subjective I doing or not doing
anything. The body is involved with action.


 
 The question of Enlightenment only applies to
 identification, not the 
 role of the body acting in the world.

Agreed

 As long as
 there's a body, 
 desires must be present. 

You're understanding action of the body as always
arising from desire. Desire is a subjective
phenomenon that arises in waking state because of the
intrinsic experience of lack because consciousness
appears to be bound as an I. Would you call the
growth of a tree a desire? The tree desires to
stretch out its leaves to the sunlight? I doubt it.
This just occurs. It is the play of the three
gunas/nature/God/mystery. Human
behavior/thought/feeling also just occurs like a tree
reacting to sunlight. It is that in waking state there
is a false notion of an I that is created and
thought to be the author of these things.


 Relinquishing the notion of
 a mental doer: 
 (i.e. realizing the true nature of the Self and
 seeing the nature of 
 Mind); doesn't change the fact that relative bodies
 are performing 
 actions, exhibit desires, have programs, agendas;

Agreed.


 even selfish 
 desires which do harm to people.

Of course. Just like a hurricaine can kill the body.

 I suppose you would
 say that it's 
 impossible for an Enlightened person to harm another
 person?

No, I wouldn't say that. But what do you mean by
harm though? Damage to the body? Of course an
enlightened person can harm or kill the body of
another.

  (or, 
 are you one of those who maintain Enlightened people
 are incapable of 
 making mistakes?  It would be a mistake to believe
 that notion.  
 Don't fall for it.

Don't worry, I won't fall for that notion! But what is
a mistake though? The term, A mistake free life is
just a buzz term the TMO uses.


 
  In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  An unenlightened person looks at an enlightened
 person
  and they appear to have desires. They talk, they
 move,
  they eat food, they do this and that, they prefer
 one
  thing over another. In fact from the behavioral
 level
  there is no difference between the unenlightened
 and
  the enlightened. But the enlightened person is not
  there in the way the unenlightened person
 believes
  themselves to be. There is no sense  of I or
 mine
  in the enlightened person. There is no subjective
  self that sees itself as me or I . That just
  goes in enlightenment. The best an enlightened
 person
  can say is that they are nothing. They aren't
 there
  in they way an unenlightened person believes they
 are
  there. There is no personal identity or self in
  enlightenment. The mind can't understand this
 because
  it confounds a sense of individual self with
  consciousness. The two have no relationship what
 so
  ever. A personal self is a product of
 consciousness
  projecting into mind and experiencing itself as
 bound.
  
  
  --- matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   I don't see how Enlightenment is in any way
   connected with not having 
   desires, from a theoretical level (MMY never
 said
   that); or 
   experiential level...looking at various people
 whom
   I consider to be 
   Enlightened; for example.
1. Various Buddhist teachers, and texts have
 people
   repeating the 
   Bodhisattva vow, which entails Enlightened
 people
   using some type of 
   subtle body to be used for the purpose of
 assisting
   others. For 
   example, p. 118 of The Seven Chapter Prayer of
 the
   Great Teacher 
   Padmasambhava, p. 118, states part of the vow:
I vow that having attained the

Re: [FairfieldLife] Desires and Enlightenment

Matrixmonitor:

First of all, it depends on how you define enlightenment.

Secondly, at a certain stage many yogis will determine which karmas 
they want to maintain and which ones they want to eliminate. For 
example I may want to retain positive karmas right up to the 
dissolution of my physical body to assist in certain actions I want to 
perform. As long as you maintain a body this process is advantageous.

As death approaches different styles of realizer will transition 
differently, some through a Mayic body, others through a Light body. 
The advantage of a Light body is one can divide ones bodies into tens 
of thousands of bodies to assist and teach in various dimensions.

-V

  1. Various Buddhist teachers, and texts have people repeating the
 Bodhisattva vow, which entails Enlightened people using some type of
 subtle body to be used for the purpose of assisting others. For
 example, p. 118 of The Seven Chapter Prayer of the Great Teacher
 Padmasambhava, p. 118, states part of the vow:
  I vow that having attained the level of Buddhahood, I shall bring
 all beings to full Enlightenment, using whatever means are necessary
 for whomsoever is to be tamed.
  Therefore, this is definitely an avowed desire, requiring a body in
 the context of useful and skillful means toward an end.
 2. The Dalai Lama definitely has desires:  foremost on his is list is
 his stated desire to help the Tibetan people.
 3. Terton Kansang Dechen Lingpa Rincoche, an Enlightened teacher from
  snip



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

Keep in mind there is a difference between the yogic conception of ego 
and the Freudian ego. SIgnificantly, some believe the ego isn't real. 
Many (if not most) psycho-therapists subscribe to the illusion that the 
Freudian ego is a real entity.

On Jun 9, 2005, at 5:35 AM, claudiouk wrote:

 The Ego, Freud said, is primarily a bodily ego. After enlightenment
 the body is still there and other people's bodies are still not one's
 own.. in the relative the same rules still apply. 



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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

2005-06-09 Thread akasha_108

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The I actually does not
 exist. But it appears to exist in waking state ... What drives the
 behavior/thought/feeling of the enlightened is what
 drives everything phenomenal... 
 This is actually driving people in waking
 state too, but they think that subjective sense of I
 is doing it. 

I am glad stating such about those in waking state is no longer a
huge epistimological mistake! Another sign of Sat Yuga. 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Medicated Baby Boomer Ru's





  -Celibacy is also OCD.I 
guess so, wouldn't know. I never understood why anyone would go that route. 
Have you tried it?2 years when I was on purusha. When even 
trees and animals started looking sexy I was honest with myself and decided to 
go. 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

2005-06-09 Thread akasha_108

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  And if the enlightened person says that in order to
  justify his behavior,
  then fine.
 
 Only somebody in waking state with an ego would
 justify behavior by claiming that nobody is doing
 the behavior. What nonsense!
 
 
  Nobody will mind if his body spends
  some time in jail
 
 Absolutely!

But I bet you 5 to 1 that the incarcerated Peter body would bitch
about it. :)







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Charlie's Chakras

As a chef I have trained many people. Many of them have
eatennothing but turkey necks their whole lives. Not a single
negativethought ever arose in them about turkey necks either.I don't
get it ? I was talking about negitive thoughts arising in mymind ... took
about 2 days to notice it ...-My point was that people are not negative within a small mental
framework. A couple years in the TMO and one can effectly shut out all
contradictory valuations. But upon entering the foodservice world, people 'of
the neck' had forced upon them the advantages of the thigh. The never could just
gobble 'neks in grayv' again, without thinking of how much better a thing might
be.

This is a crappy example. My point
is based on personal experience. That is, back when I was at MIU it took me a
couple years but eventually all my critical and negative thoughts disappeared.
Everything was beautiful and blissful, and ne'er a discordant thought.
Internally. But I wasn't worth a shit to myself or anyone else.

The discordant is the stuff within
ourselves that shows us what we realy really need, not the peaceful snoozamatic
thoughts. Also, you can't judge others by how they seem. Many murderers
are seemingly perfect law abiders.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: 'Moron' Bush Beat Kerry at Yale






--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
"Llundrub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: 
Jokes are mainly memorized and repeated. That's why everybody loves them. No 
arguing. People laugh. You come across as in control, and full of native 
wit. But all one has to do is speak their lines, and the punchline is 
coming. Sounds like his tenure as President. try an experiment next 
time you watch the guy- correlate his facial expressions with his words, and 
then reflect back on the current state of that particular area of government 
or issue. He knows exactly what he is doing, clever little 
devil...-Any joker knows when he's telling a good joke. That's 
how one develops the punchline. With a little drama.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment



--- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
  --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
   And if the enlightened person says that in order
 to
   justify his behavior,
   then fine.
  
  Only somebody in waking state with an ego would
  justify behavior by claiming that nobody is
 doing
  the behavior. What nonsense!
  
  
   Nobody will mind if his body spends
   some time in jail
  
  Absolutely!
 
 But I bet you 5 to 1 that the incarcerated Peter
 body would bitch
 about it. :)

Of course!


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment



--- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  The I actually does not
  exist. But it appears to exist in waking state ...
 What drives the
  behavior/thought/feeling of the enlightened is
 what
  drives everything phenomenal... 
  This is actually driving people in waking
  state too, but they think that subjective sense of
 I
  is doing it. 
 
 I am glad stating such about those in waking state
 is no longer a
 huge epistimological mistake! Another sign of Sat
 Yuga.

Nah, we're still in Kasli yuga because it is still a
huge epistemological mistake. ;-)


 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: volunteer weekend at livingston manor





Just got off the phone with Bevan's evil twin, 
who suggested that all the talk about the 200 pundits coming to Vedic City 
are just to get people thinking about the number 200, then the ole 
switcheroo will bring in the 200 gents on Purusha to the trailer 
park...---They are pundits, 
no?


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[FairfieldLife] MMY answers questions about Guru Dev

2005-06-09 Thread gerbal88

--- In Message 1935 of 2016 at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Premanand Paul Mason 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 MMY answers questions about Guru Dev.
 [...]
 ...And I was never interested who was given what mantra. I was 
 interested in myself. [laughter and giggling]...
 [...] 
 ... Out of that fullness I started to teach. [MMY pauses, slight 
 audience laughter] At least by practice people could rise and raise 
 themselves up.

Thank you, Paul, for posting this. I read it a couple of days ago and 
have been turning it over in my mind. At first, I felt some 
irritation, a kind of I knew it, Maharishi is only
interested in 
himself! But I continued to reflect and began to consider that there 
was something more to this. 

All the interest, dedication, commitment to others is a good thing, 
of course. But without interest, dedication, commitment to one's
own 
spiritual development (fully humanizing oneself before setting out to 
help others), which I hope is what Maharishi is saying, nothing 
really useful is going to be achieved. The more I thought about this 
and other things Maharishi said over the years, things he said to me 
personally and to others around him, the more I have felt a release 
from the rather too obvious nuttiness of the TMO and a now paranoid 
dependent old man who no longer is or can ever again be my teacher.

I was interested in myself and Out of that
fullness seems to me 
to be the key teaching, the summation of what Maharishi was doing all 
those years: setting an example (never quite a good one with respect 
to the cultural milieu I knew, but the best example he could come up 
with, nonetheless). *Find what is right for you, penetrate it as 
deeply as you possibly can and then, once you have determined it is 
going to benefit you and, according to my cultural milieu, allow you 
to benefit others, go for it*.

I abandoned Maharishi and his organized loonies a long time ago; but 
never quite saw through the mirage I had set up for myself about him 
until I pondered this lovely piece of very interesting insight 
or 
was it my own insight I was pondering. I don't know.

Thank you, again, Paul. If you have other talks in which Maharishi 
talks about his time with Guru Dev, could you post them, or post a 
link to them?  We all, I suppose, have the fantasy: wouldn't
it have 
been great to have met Guru Dev, to have been his disciple. But I 
think, with respect to the material you have posted, it would be even 
greater to be a disciple of that inner guru, one's own citta, the 
citta itself from which flows all that can ever flow.

G





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[FairfieldLife] Moron Bush beat..... (was 'Moron' Bush Beat Kerry at Yale)

2005-06-09 Thread uns_tressor

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  Jokes are mainly memorized and repeated. That's why everybody loves 
 them. No arguing. People laugh. You come across as in control, and 
 full of native wit. But all one has to do is speak their lines, and 
 the punchline is coming. Sounds like his tenure as President.
  
 
 You didn't see the video.
 
 It showed him sipping from a plastic cup full of clear liquid while 
 blasting the bride and groom for being strange and doing weird, 
 outlandish things like never drinking alcohol...

...pretty anarchic. Like his comment that most exports come
from abroad. Have a quick glance at some of these remarks 
from the most powerful man in the world who just might, 
with the aid of his arsenal and some Tesla thinking, be 
able to split the world into two hemisphers like the trick
with the apple.
Uns.
http://www.bushisms.com/NewQuotes.html




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[FairfieldLife] The Economist reports on Cold Fusion

Physicists who meddle with cold fusion, like psychologists who dabble 
in the paranormal, are likely
to be labelled quacks by their peers. This is due to an infamous 
incident in 1989 when Stanley Pons
and Martin Fleischmann held a press conference to announce their 
discovery of nuclear fusion in what
amounted to a test-tube full of water connected to a battery. In 
particular, they said that they
were getting more energy out of the process than they put into it. 
Their result was instantly dubbed
cold fusion, to contrast it with giant fusion-reactor experiments 
that attempt to reproduce the
ultra-high temperatures found inside the sun. But when it failed to 
stand up to scrutiny,
confusionand eventually outrageensued.

In 2002, history repeated itself as farce with the announcement by a 
group at Oak Ridge National
Laboratory in Tennessee of fusion inside the bubbles that are produced 
by ultrasonic waves
travelling through a liquid. This result passed the peer-review 
process, but was immediately
attacked by another groupfrom the same laboratorywhich claimed to 
find no such effect. There was a
counterclaim by yet a third team last year, and a final verdict on 
'bubble fusion' is still not in.
But most people have lost interest in the debate, assuming that anyone 
claiming to have observed
fusion in a desktop experiment is a crank or a fraud. This attitude, 
however, may yet turn out to be
mistaken. Desk-top fusion may be possible after all, according to an 
article published in this
week's Nature by three researchers at the University of California, Los 
Angeles (UCLA).

Full article at:
http://economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3909490



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment






Not that I know anything, but one 
previously used to interpret all their desires as coming from their own ego, but 
later one sees desires arising themselves from the universal. This is the 
difference. Previously desires were for limited and localized reasons but later 
the desires are spontaneous and universal. The desires or their fulfillment 
might look the same on the outside, but the desire arises with more certainty of 
being fulfilled. 

For instance, I had a job interview 
yesterday at 11:00 am. I had meditated and just felt like lying down and 
napping after. My sense of time was skewed and I awoke at 10:45 am, and I 
hadn't gotten ready. Right that second the job called and told me they needed to 
set the time back an hour. Sorry. 

So then I was bored and I decided 
to go to Walmart to get some gum. I bought some candy as well. 
While I was still wasting a few minutes I thought, just bring some into the 
interview and give it to them. A weird thought, but I did it anyway. So 
during the interview I put the candy on the table and they gobble it down. I had 
this thought that for a chef one wants people to eat from so that they salivate 
even when thinking your name. 

Normal people would never give the 
interviewers candy during their interview. Of course, it's different in 
Hollywood where giving a piece often equals getting a piece. 



- Original Message - 
From: claudiouk 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 4:35 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment
The Ego, Freud said, is primarily a "bodily" ego. After 
enlightenment the body is still there and other people's bodies are still 
not one'sown.. in the relative the same rules still apply. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
"Jeff Fischer" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... 
wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote:  on 
6/8/05 11:45 PM, mathatbrahman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  
   And if the enlightened person says that in order to 
justify his  behavior,  then fine. "Nobody" will mind if his 
body spends some time in jail.  Nice. 
:-)To subscribe, send a message 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Charlie's Chakras

2005-06-09 Thread jyouells2000

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  As a chef I have trained many people. Many of them have eaten
 nothing but turkey necks their whole lives. Not a single negative
 thought ever arose in them about turkey necks either.
 
 I don't get it ? I was talking about negitive thoughts arising in my
 mind ... took about 2 days to notice it ...
 
 
 -My point was that people are not negative within a small mental
framework. A couple years in the TMO and one can effectly shut out all
contradictory valuations. But upon entering the foodservice world,
people 'of the neck' had forced upon them the advantages of the thigh.
The never could just gobble 'neks in grayv' again, without thinking of
how much better a thing might be. 
 
 This is a crappy example. My point is based on personal experience.
That is, back when I was at MIU it took me a couple years but
eventually all my critical and negative thoughts disappeared.
Everything was beautiful and blissful, and ne'er a discordant thought.
Internally. But I wasn't worth a shit to myself or anyone else. 
 
 The discordant is the stuff within ourselves that shows us what we
realy really need, not the peaceful snoozamatic thoughts. Also, you
can't judge others by how they seem.  Many murderers are seemingly
perfect law abiders.

Roger! got it now ... it (around the healer) wasn't the same as the
MIU/rounding/etc atmosphere. but I get your point.

JohnY





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Desires and Enlightenment






I had a talk with Venerable Ontul 
Rinpoche where he discussed the 9 yanas or vehicles of Buddhism. 

What was interesting to me and seemed 
to point to me as regards certain memories of mine was that people may become 
enlightened from a self guided path (and they are called pratyekabuddhas), and 
yet they may then encounter the Bodhisattva Dharma and then decide to travel 
that path, instead of the path of personal liberation. That is, they may decide 
to follow the path of liberating others besides merely themselves. 


It seems to me sometimes to 
make all the difference in the world. 


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Desires and Enlightenment

If your meditation is merely relaxing in the stillness of mind, you 
will not get beyond being side-tracked in the samadhi of the gods. Such 
a meditation will not be able to overcome your attachment or anger. It 
will not be able to put a stop to the flow of karmic formations. Nor 
will it be able to bring you the deep confidence of direct certainty.

Patrul Rinpoche, Hitting the Essence in Three Words



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Charlie's Chakras






Roger! got it now ... it (around the healer) wasn't the same as 
theMIU/rounding/etc atmosphere. but I get your 
point.JohnY

--I used to question 
why I had worked at 37 jobs in the last fifteen years. Then when I took 
Bodhisattva vows I realized that I had somewhere decided to make the connection 
with the most people possible so as to serve the most people possible. 


It doesn't matter 
whether we individuals think we're just some localized and ignorant people, 
because we're not. Those of us who have spent many years meditating and who are 
making the positive aspiration to liberate all others are in fact 
apostles. We might not act or seem like it just as the sun gets clouded 
over at times and it seems that the sun has ceased. But it's still there burning 
through, and when the waters are released then it shines perfectly again. 


It finally 
made sense to me that I was bringing MIU to the darkest South, within myself. My 
own ignorant actions were nothing but a reflection of ignorance in general. Of 
which at least my ignorance was a different ignorance than before. A more 
liberated and liberating ignorance. At least I knew I was 
ignorant the whole time. 

Later I started wearing 
super high powered rudraksha at my jobs. People seeing them would have a 
cause for liberation. 

I never preached at 
people and nobody ever knew I was a meditator or anything. It didn't really 
matter. I didn't want to sully any of the teachings through my own personal 
problems like drug abuse. But still the connection was there. And at times when 
I am meditating a person pops into my mind. Someone who may never have 
encountered any dharma, let alone the Buddhadharma, so another 
connection.

It's all about 
connections and causes. 

And sometimes what seems 
like ignorance is a new connection, or a different cause than before. 


Often I wondered why 
someone like me who was so pure at certain times of my life and had such great 
experiences would also get totally overshadowed again through drugs or sex or 
some other addiction. 

Those drives are stronger 
than my own natural desires for a peaceful, lazy existance, and they pull me to 
new places. New connections, new causes for liberation. 

I used to have a friend 
and we would blast Sama Veda when driving on Hollywood Blvd. I now 
sometimes enter the ghetto to visit friends and I am wearing whole malas of 
11,12,13,14 sided rudraksha. Another friend of mine and myself once 
meditated at the "Monsters of Rock" concert. I got busted on a fluke 15 
year old speeding ticket and spent two days in prison. I meditated the 
whole time and some people saw and asked about it. 

Connections and causes 
for liberation. Am I better than others? Not so as to preach about it. Am 
I more liberated than others? Quite possibly. 

I would like to thank 
Maharishi for TM, My Lamas for the Buddhadharma, My wife the Dakini Plus, Neeta 
at Rudra Center, and Shiva Rudraksha, my main protector. May all be so lucky. 
May my life be an offering to the mostsuffering and unhappy that they may 
find a cause for happiness and freedom from suffering. 



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Desires and Enlightenment

- Original Message - 
From: Vaj 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Desires and Enlightenment

"If your meditation is merely relaxing in the stillness of mind, you 
will not get beyond being side-tracked in the samadhi of the gods. Such 
a meditation will not be able to overcome your attachment or anger. It 
will not be able to put a stop to the flow of karmic formations. Nor 
will it be able to bring you the deep confidence of direct 
certainty."Patrul Rinpoche, "Hitting the Essence in Three 
Words"

This is my experience. TM and action is great 
for those with few personality issues, but doesn't much change someone after the 
novelty of TM wears off. Then more formal mind training is still 
needed.

I think the TM Marga would work if someone was 
truely rich. Three times a year of 14 day Ayurveda treatments, TM - 20x2, 
Yagyas, etc... one could possibly become enlightened. But if one doesn't have 
the money then what? They're fucked!

A cheaper and more universal path is needed. 
Maharishi still is in service to the Bodhisattvas. Not the other way 
around. 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 If your meditation is merely relaxing in the stillness of mind, you 
 will not get beyond being side-tracked in the samadhi of the gods. 
Such 
 a meditation will not be able to overcome your attachment or anger. 
It 
 will not be able to put a stop to the flow of karmic formations. Nor 
 will it be able to bring you the deep confidence of direct 
certainty.
 
 Patrul Rinpoche, Hitting the Essence in Three Words

Are you saying that this directly addresses Transcendental Meditation?

Rick Carlstrom




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Medicated Baby Boomer Ru's

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
**SNIP**
 if anyone has had any
  experience and/or 
  results from the OTC supplement, 5-HTP?  It is the
  immediate 
  precursor to the neurotransmitter, Serotonin, which
  the lack of 
  availability at the synaptic gaps is addressed by
  Prozac, Zoloft and 
  the other SSRI's (selective serotonin re-uptake
  inhibitors).
  
  Serotonin in the body is made slowly and the idea of
  regular 
  supplement of its immediate precursor is thought to
  help obviate 
  depression, etc.  Anyone?  Dr. Pete?
  
  Thanks,
  
  Marek
 
 I'm not familiar with it. Any research at all?
 
**END**

Not that I'm aware of (but I haven't checked either). Thought you 
might know.  I take it everyday just to help keep the serotonin 
cupboard stocked.  I have heard anecdotally that it helps with 
depression; depression, of course, linked with low serotonin levels.

It is frequently taken by users of ecstacy (MDMA) to offset the 
serotonin depletion that accompanies that substance use.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Desires and Enlightenment


On Jun 9, 2005, at 11:10 AM, Llundrub wrote:

This is my experience. TM and action is great for those with few personality issues, but doesn't much change someone after the novelty of TM wears off. Then more formal mind training is still needed.
 
I think the TM Marga would work if someone was truely rich. Three times a year of 14 day Ayurveda treatments, TM - 20x2, Yagyas, etc... one could possibly become enlightened. But if one doesn't have the money then what? They're fucked! 
 
A cheaper and more universal path is needed. Maharishi still is in service to the Bodhisattvas.  Not the other way around. 


And I believe this is what scientific research is showing. Mantra-yoga (and other forms stillness med.), in most people, after using it for 20-30 years will produce witnessing-style precursors to enlightenment--in some people less time, in others more. If they stop meditating, the witnessing mode will fade. The reason? It does not take you to the place where vasanas are obliterated (vasana-kshara, lit. the collapse of vasanas).

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment


On Jun 9, 2005, at 11:22 AM, Rick wrote:

 Are you saying that this directly addresses Transcendental Meditation?

All forms of meditation which work at transcending thought, not just 
TM©.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY answers questions about Guru Dev

Said very well. Thanks.

Marek
**

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In Message 1935 of 2016 at 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], Premanand Paul Mason 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  MMY answers questions about Guru Dev.
  [...]
  ...And I was never interested who was given what mantra. I was 
  interested in myself. [laughter and giggling]...
  [...] 
  ... Out of that fullness I started to teach. [MMY pauses, slight 
  audience laughter] At least by practice people could rise and 
raise 
  themselves up.
 
 Thank you, Paul, for posting this. I read it a couple of days ago 
and 
 have been turning it over in my mind. At first, I felt some 
 irritation, a kind of I knew it, Maharishi is only
 interested in 
 himself! But I continued to reflect and began to consider that 
there 
 was something more to this. 
 
 All the interest, dedication, commitment to others is a good 
thing, 
 of course. But without interest, dedication, commitment to one's
 own 
 spiritual development (fully humanizing oneself before setting out 
to 
 help others), which I hope is what Maharishi is saying, nothing 
 really useful is going to be achieved. The more I thought about 
this 
 and other things Maharishi said over the years, things he said to 
me 
 personally and to others around him, the more I have felt a 
release 
 from the rather too obvious nuttiness of the TMO and a now 
paranoid 
 dependent old man who no longer is or can ever again be my teacher.
 
 I was interested in myself and Out of that
 fullness seems to me 
 to be the key teaching, the summation of what Maharishi was doing 
all 
 those years: setting an example (never quite a good one with 
respect 
 to the cultural milieu I knew, but the best example he could come 
up 
 with, nonetheless). *Find what is right for you, penetrate it as 
 deeply as you possibly can and then, once you have determined it 
is 
 going to benefit you and, according to my cultural milieu, allow 
you 
 to benefit others, go for it*.
 
 I abandoned Maharishi and his organized loonies a long time ago; 
but 
 never quite saw through the mirage I had set up for myself about 
him 
 until I pondered this lovely piece of very interesting insight 
 or 
 was it my own insight I was pondering. I don't know.
 
 Thank you, again, Paul. If you have other talks in which Maharishi 
 talks about his time with Guru Dev, could you post them, or post a 
 link to them?  We all, I suppose, have the fantasy: wouldn't
 it have 
 been great to have met Guru Dev, to have been his disciple. But I 
 think, with respect to the material you have posted, it would be 
even 
 greater to be a disciple of that inner guru, one's own citta, the 
 citta itself from which flows all that can ever flow.
 
 G




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Medicated Baby Boomer Ru's






You should look into Mucuna pruriens, which is a 
natural form of L. Dopamine which is a serotonin precursor.

http://www.rain-tree.com/velvetbean.htm

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0Board=GardenNumber=2752717Searchpage=1Main=2727398Words=l.dopatopic=Search=true#Post2752717





- Original Message - 
From: marekreavis 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 10:24 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Medicated Baby Boomer Ru's
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED]... 
wrote:**SNIP** if anyone has had any  experience 
and/or   results from the OTC supplement, 5-HTP? It is 
the  immediate   precursor to the neurotransmitter, 
Serotonin, which  the lack of   availability at the 
synaptic gaps is addressed by  Prozac, Zoloft and   the 
other SSRI's (selective serotonin re-uptake  inhibitors). 
   Serotonin in the body is made slowly and the idea of 
 regular   supplement of its immediate precursor is thought 
to  help obviate   depression, etc. Anyone? 
Dr. Pete?Thanks,
Marek  I'm not familiar with it. Any research at all? 
**END**Not that I'm aware of (but I haven't checked either). Thought 
you might know. I take it everyday just to help keep the serotonin 
cupboard stocked. I have heard anecdotally that it helps with 
depression; depression, of course, linked with low serotonin 
levels.It is frequently taken by users of ecstacy (MDMA) to offset the 
serotonin depletion that accompanies that substance 
use.To subscribe, send a message 
to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
click 'Join This Group!' 



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[FairfieldLife] Re: Charlie's Chakras

Comment (and thanks) below:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
**SNIP**
 --I used to question why I had worked at 37 jobs in the last 
fifteen years. Then when I took Bodhisattva vows I realized that I 
had somewhere decided to make the connection with the most people 
possible so as to serve the most people possible. 
 
 It doesn't matter whether we individuals think we're just some 
localized and ignorant people, because we're not. Those of us who 
have spent many years meditating and who are making the positive 
aspiration to liberate all others are in fact apostles.  We might 
not act or seem like it just as the sun gets clouded over at times 
and it seems that the sun has ceased. But it's still there burning 
through, and when the waters are released then it shines perfectly 
again. 
 
 It finally made sense to me that I was bringing MIU to the darkest 
South, within myself. My own ignorant actions were nothing but a 
reflection of ignorance in general. Of which at least my ignorance 
was a different ignorance than before. A more liberated and 
liberating ignorance. At least I knew I was ignorant the whole time. 
 
 Later I started wearing super high powered rudraksha at my jobs.  
People seeing them would have a cause for liberation.  
 
 I never preached at people and nobody ever knew I was a meditator 
or anything. It didn't really matter. I didn't want to sully any of 
the teachings through my own personal problems like drug abuse. But 
still the connection was there. And at times when I am meditating a 
person pops into my mind. Someone who may never have encountered any 
dharma, let alone the Buddhadharma, so another connection.
 
 It's all about connections and causes. 
 
 And sometimes what seems like ignorance is a new connection, or a 
different cause than before. 
 
 Often I wondered why someone like me who was so pure at certain 
times of my life and had such great experiences would also get 
totally overshadowed again through drugs or sex or some other 
addiction.  
 
 Those drives are stronger than my own natural desires for a 
peaceful, lazy existance, and they pull me to new places. New 
connections, new causes for liberation.  
 
 I used to have a friend and we would blast Sama Veda when driving 
on Hollywood Blvd.  I now sometimes enter the ghetto to visit 
friends and I am wearing whole malas of 11,12,13,14 sided 
rudraksha.  Another friend of mine and myself once meditated at 
the Monsters of Rock concert.  I got busted on a fluke 15 year old 
speeding ticket and spent two days in prison.  I meditated the whole 
time and some people saw and asked about it. 
 
 Connections and causes for liberation. Am I better than others? 
Not so as to preach about it.  Am I more liberated than others?  
Quite possibly. 
 
 I would like to thank Maharishi for TM, My Lamas for the 
Buddhadharma, My wife the Dakini Plus, Neeta at Rudra Center, and 
Shiva Rudraksha, my main protector. May all be so lucky. May my life 
be an offering to the most suffering and unhappy that they may find 
a cause for happiness and freedom from suffering.

**END**

Llundrub, thanks for this post.  Very sweet and true.  For a lot of 
us, once our intitial involvement with the TMO and Maharishi had run 
its course, we dispersed into the world to live our lives with 
whatever degree of true spirituality we had imbibed available to 
everyone else whose paths we crossed.  Just being who we are.

I loved the rudraksha story.  I have a 20+mm rudraksha kantha from 
Neeta and I wear that along with a 13mm crystal mala all the time.  
Not infrequently, when I'm in court I'll get up and walk around 
while I'm arguing or asking questions and I'll notice these puzzled 
looks on the faces of the judge or the court reporter or opposing 
counsel because they rattle and clack against each other as I move.  
They can't quite figure out what that noise is.  No one has ever 
asked, though.

Marek




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Medicated Baby Boomer Ru's

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Fischer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  
  genetics are the inherited physical expression of past lives, and 
  correlated with the family we incarnate into. Now that's precision!
 
 Yes.  But I'm talking about 2 separate lines:  body (genetic entity)
 and spirit (soul)

right. me too. same vibration, same karma, just manifested differently.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 --- Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   An unenlightened person looks at an enlightened
  person
   and they appear to have desires. They talk, they
  move,
   they eat food, they do this and that, they prefer
  one
   thing over another.
  
  What is it that is actually driving the speach,
  movements, eating? 
  And when there are preferences, why is one thing
  preferred over 
  another? 
  
  If an answer is Brahman then does Brahman have a
  sense of I?.
  
  Rick Carlstrom
 
 In waking state there is a foundational confound
 between consciousness and the experiential sense of
 I. This I is ego. Because consciousness is
 projected into and identified with body/mind there is
 a bound sense of self: individuality. This ego assumes
 ownership for action. Thus in waking state we assume
 that action occurs because I am intending it. But in
 enlightenment it becomes rather clear that there is no
 I to intend or not to intend anything. Action just
 occurs or not occurs. Thoughts just occur or not
 occur. Feelings just occur or not occur. There is no
 I that takes ownership. The I actually does not
 exist. But it appears to exist in waking state and is
 confused with consciousness. What drives the
 behavior/thought/feeling of the enlightened is what
 drives everything phenomenal: God/Nature/Mystery,
 whatever. This is actually driving people in waking
 state too, but they think that subjective sense of I
 is doing it. It's quite the delusion!  


Dear Peter,

 You have done such a good job of explaining this I no I 
thing frontwards, backwards, sideways and inside out. Even though 
many are not experiencing this state of mind or no mind right now, I 
think that with a little quiet contemplation most can at least know 
abstractly what it is that you are talking about. The problem is 
that the idea of a driver of action is just kind of swept under the 
rug of God/Nature/Mystery which says to me that although there is a 
real shift of awareness being experienced there is some 
understanding that is missing. Until this understanding is opened up 
some I don't think that the questions of responsibility in action 
by enlightened individuals can be resolved to any statisfaction.

This idea starts to sound like there is a great and powerful Oz 
making all things happen from behind the curtain and any attempts to 
understand it are just the mind trying to keep itself busy so you 
better just forget it.

Is it possible that, the experience of there being no I to intend 
or not to intend is based on the recognition that ego as has always 
been identified with as I is actually not Self therefore I do 
not exist. Maybe a more accurate statement would be: therefore I 
is not the ego.

Didn't you say in an earlier post that your teacher Ravi Shankar
(spl?) mentioned something about this experience of no I being 
something that could occur in the process of growth towards 
realization. Did he elaborate on that at all?

Rick Carlstrom








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 On Jun 9, 2005, at 11:22 AM, Rick wrote:
 
  Are you saying that this directly addresses Transcendental 
Meditation?
 
 All forms of meditation which work at transcending thought, not just 
 TM©.

I agree, forms of meditation that work at transcending thought by 
their very nature bind one to thought.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: No teachings of Guru Dev (formerly: Question for...)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Jim, that's not the problem, inclusion of colour photographs would 
not 
 be a stumbling block. It's just that the Guru Dev book is to be a 
 serious look at the guru and his teachings and it is difficult to 
see a 
 place in it for photos taken on Himalayan jaunts.

yeah, that was kind of a tongue in cheek comment of mine...Well I 
really love the pictures you have taken. They have a natural grandeur 
and mystery about them that I personally feel would be an excellent 
compliment to your book. However, as a fellow artist, albeit far less 
commercially successful, I wholly support whatever the final vision of 
your book on Guru Dev turns out to be. Can't wait to read it!




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[FairfieldLife] Re: No teachings of Guru Dev (formerly: Question for...)

Thanks for this Paul, what a treasure trove you are amassing.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thank you to those who have supported my research into Guru Dev's
 life and teachings.  As I am framing another visit to India this 
year, 
 if anyone has any useful contacts or hot tips, please let me know. 
Any 
 useful information about Guru Dev or/and illustrations would be 
greatly 
 appeciated. on my email
 [premanandpaulATyahooDOTcoDOTuk]
 
 As background research I am aquainting myself with all available
 published work on Gurudev and of course anything else that I can
 light upon.
 
 Yesterday I have finished typing an Itans copy of his Hindi 
biography 
 and uploaded it to the Gurudev webpage. [Unfortunately, it lacks 
pages 
 1011 which I cannot source at present.] Also I have created a pdf 
file
 of the same for those who wish to read the devnagari script. These
 can be accessed at
 http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm#lifestory




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Medicated Baby Boomer Ru's

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  -Celibacy is also OCD.
 
 I guess so, wouldn't know. I never understood why anyone would go 
that 
 route. Have you tried it?
 
 
 2 years when I was on purusha.  When even trees and animals 
started looking sexy I was honest with myself and decided to go.

yeah, the sex drive is too powerful to be willed away. I've wrestled 
with it often.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Economist reports on Cold Fusion

2005-06-09 Thread uns_tressor

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Physicists who meddle with cold fusion, like psychologists who dabble 
 in the paranormal, are likely to be labelled quacks by 
 their peers.. Desk-top fusion may be possible after all, 
 according to an article published in this week's Nature by 
 three researchers at the University of California, Los 
 Angeles (UCLA).
 Full article at:
 http://economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3909490

Certain very large and very well known Japanese companies 
are quietly spending fortunes on this and other zpe projects
like the Takahashi motor:
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/wankel.htm
This device seems to be validated by the threats coming in from 
the oil dependent Yakuza. An interesting aspect is the belief 
in safety through Open Source marketing a la Linux. Is anyone on
the list an expert in quantum theory?
Uns.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY answers questions about Guru Dev

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We all, I suppose, have the fantasy: wouldn't
 it have 
 been great to have met Guru Dev, to have been his disciple. But I 
 think, with respect to the material you have posted, it would be 
even 
 greater to be a disciple of that inner guru, one's own citta, the 
 citta itself from which flows all that can ever flow.
 

actually if you want to feel a similar experience of being close to 
Guru Dev, look up Ramana Maharishi and read about him or check out his 
pic. Easy to find via Google. Very similar vibration to Guru Dev. Both 
are pure unmoving edifices of radiant Shiva energy. Peter said it 
better than I can. Then you won't have to long for a fantasy anymore.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Moron Bush beat..... (was 'Moron' Bush Beat Kerry at Yale)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, uns_tressor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   Jokes are mainly memorized and repeated. That's why everybody 
loves 
  them. No arguing. People laugh. You come across as in control, 
and 
  full of native wit. But all one has to do is speak their lines, 
and 
  the punchline is coming. Sounds like his tenure as President.
   
  
  You didn't see the video.
  
  It showed him sipping from a plastic cup full of clear liquid 
while 
  blasting the bride and groom for being strange and doing weird, 
  outlandish things like never drinking alcohol...
 
 ...pretty anarchic. Like his comment that most exports come
 from abroad. Have a quick glance at some of these remarks 
 from the most powerful man in the world who just might, 
 with the aid of his arsenal and some Tesla thinking, be 
 able to split the world into two hemisphers like the trick
 with the apple.
 Uns.
 http://www.bushisms.com/NewQuotes.html

it is fun to laugh at him; keeps us off balance. Why do you think 
the democrats are such a weak mess right now?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 If your meditation is merely relaxing in the stillness of mind, you 
 will not get beyond being side-tracked in the samadhi of the gods. 
Such 
 a meditation will not be able to overcome your attachment or anger. 
It 
 will not be able to put a stop to the flow of karmic formations. Nor 
 will it be able to bring you the deep confidence of direct 
certainty.
 
 Patrul Rinpoche, Hitting the Essence in Three Words

that makes sense intuitvely. I like the combo of stillness of the mind 
to guide normal activity, TM to continue expanding consciousness, and 
plain ol' mindfulness to take care of attachment or anger. triple 
decker cheese burger!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY answers questions about Guru Dev

Comment below:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 We all, I suppose, have the fantasy: wouldn't
  it have 
  been great to have met Guru Dev, to have been his disciple. But I 
  think, with respect to the material you have posted, it would be 
 even 
  greater to be a disciple of that inner guru, one's own citta, the 
  citta itself from which flows all that can ever flow.
  
 
 actually if you want to feel a similar experience of being close to 
 Guru Dev, look up Ramana Maharishi and read about him or check out 
his 
 pic. Easy to find via Google. Very similar vibration to Guru Dev. 
Both 
 are pure unmoving edifices of radiant Shiva energy. Peter said it 
 better than I can. Then you won't have to long for a fantasy anymore.

**END**

And/Or, you could do puja to Guru Dev.

Marek




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

a fun experiment to try: close your eyes, and one by one eliminate 
the motion of the mind; no projection right, left, up, down, 
backwards, forwards. Just bring it to a quiet stop, no thought. 
Allow the senses to continue to operate, just don't interact with 
their objects.

Then, where is I? no idea.

If you attempt on the other hand to think your way into an 
understanding of enlightenment, you will get some reasonable 
approximate understanding, but the trick then is to use that as a 
spur for the heart to thirst more for enlightenment, and not allow 
the ego instead to pursue this idealized concept of enlightenment, 
(leading to more musing and thinking). Stupid ego. 

It always sounds so complicated when it is thought about. Works a 
lot better to just not think about it. Then you will find it, and 
all of your answers will come quickly and effortlessly. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  You have done such a good job of explaining this I no I 
 thing frontwards, backwards, sideways and inside out. Even though 
 many are not experiencing this state of mind or no mind right now, 
I 
 think that with a little quiet contemplation most can at least 
know 
 abstractly what it is that you are talking about. The problem is 
 that the idea of a driver of action is just kind of swept under 
the 
 rug of God/Nature/Mystery which says to me that although there is 
a 
 real shift of awareness being experienced there is some 
 understanding that is missing. Until this understanding is opened 
up 
 some I don't think that the questions of responsibility in action 
 by enlightened individuals can be resolved to any statisfaction.
 
 This idea starts to sound like there is a great and powerful Oz 
 making all things happen from behind the curtain and any attempts 
to 
 understand it are just the mind trying to keep itself busy so you 
 better just forget it.
 
 Is it possible that, the experience of there being no I to 
intend 
 or not to intend is based on the recognition that ego as has 
always 
 been identified with as I is actually not Self therefore I do 
 not exist. Maybe a more accurate statement would be: therefore I 
 is not the ego.
 
 Didn't you say in an earlier post that your teacher Ravi Shankar
 (spl?) mentioned something about this experience of no I being 
 something that could occur in the process of growth towards 
 realization. Did he elaborate on that at all?
 
 Rick Carlstrom






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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY answers questions about Guru Dev

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 And/Or, you could do puja to Guru Dev.
 
 Marek

that sounds great! I never learned how, but it sounds really nice.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Sem victim's family has an attorney

I have personally spoken with members of the Admissions Office at MUM 
who interacted with Sem before he became a student. His insanity was 
not at all obvious at that time. My speculation is that, after 
stopping his meds, the deterioration in his mental state was 
cumulative, so it was possible that he did not appear to be psychotic 
right away. Dr. Pete, does that make sense clinically?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 OR that MUM was so desperate for students that they simply let him 
in.
 
 Sal
 
 On Jun 8, 2005, at 9:15 PM, m2smart4u2000 wrote:
 
   You know that when you are interviewed to start TM, one of the
   questions is regarding any treatment by psychiatrists. If you are
   being treated regularly, then you cannot be initiated. It does 
make
   you think that he lied on the application form.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment



--- Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  On Jun 9, 2005, at 11:22 AM, Rick wrote:
  
   Are you saying that this directly addresses
 Transcendental 
 Meditation?
  
  All forms of meditation which work at transcending
 thought, not just 
  TM©.
 
 I agree, forms of meditation that work at
 transcending thought by 
 their very nature bind one to thought.

Can you say more about this? I don't understand.



 
 
 
 
 
 
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
 
 
 
 




__ 
Discover Yahoo! 
Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! 
http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html 



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY answers questions about Guru Dev



--- marekreavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Comment below:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  We all, I suppose, have the fantasy: wouldn't
   it have 
   been great to have met Guru Dev, to have been
 his disciple. But I 
   think, with respect to the material you have
 posted, it would be 
  even 
   greater to be a disciple of that inner guru,
 one's own citta, the 
   citta itself from which flows all that can ever
 flow.
   
  
  actually if you want to feel a similar experience
 of being close to 
  Guru Dev, look up Ramana Maharishi and read about
 him or check out 
 his 
  pic. Easy to find via Google. Very similar
 vibration to Guru Dev. 
 Both 
  are pure unmoving edifices of radiant Shiva
 energy. Peter said it 
  better than I can. Then you won't have to long for
 a fantasy anymore.
 
 **END**
 
 And/Or, you could do puja to Guru Dev.
 
 Marek

Before you meditate imagine Guru Dev and bow to him.
Imagine MMY and bow to him. Imagine every single
spiritual teacher that you have learned anything from
and bow to them. Imagine the entirity of creation and
bow to it. Imagine God and bow to Him/Her. No close
your eyes and let go. Do nothing. Rest in the deepest
gratitude and authentic respect and just be present.
Rest in absolute nothingness.it will swallow
you. 



 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sem victim's family has an attorney



--- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I have personally spoken with members of the
 Admissions Office at MUM 
 who interacted with Sem before he became a student.
 His insanity was 
 not at all obvious at that time. My speculation is
 that, after 
 stopping his meds, the deterioration in his mental
 state was 
 cumulative, so it was possible that he did not
 appear to be psychotic 
 right away. Dr. Pete, does that make sense
 clinically?

Well, I'm biased here having worked with many
schizophrenics. It is possible that the schizophrenia
was in remission, but if you interact for any amount
of time even with someone with schizophrenia in
remission, there is always something you detect. But
you have to have dealt with schizophrenics clinically
to see this. But why wasn't a medical history taken?
Would that be on a college application? Nine to 12
psychiatric admissions is incredible. The parents seem
to be remise here.




 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  OR that MUM was so desperate for students that
 they simply let him 
 in.
  
  Sal
  
  On Jun 8, 2005, at 9:15 PM, m2smart4u2000 wrote:
  
You know that when you are interviewed to start
 TM, one of the
questions is regarding any treatment by
 psychiatrists. If you are
being treated regularly, then you cannot be
 initiated. It does 
 make
you think that he lied on the application form.
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 On Jun 9, 2005, at 11:10 AM, Llundrub wrote:
 
  This is my experience. TM and action is great for those with few 
  personality issues, but doesn't much change someone after the 
novelty 
  of TM wears off. Then more formal mind training is still needed.
   
  I think the TM Marga would work if someone was truely rich. 
Three 
  times a year of 14 day Ayurveda treatments, TM - 20x2, Yagyas, 
etc... 
  one could possibly become enlightened. But if one doesn't have 
the 
  money then what? They're fucked! 
   
  A cheaper and more universal path is needed. Maharishi still is 
in 
  service to the Bodhisattvas.  Not the other way around. 
 
 
 And I believe this is what scientific research is showing. Mantra-
yoga 
 (and other forms stillness med.), in most people, after using it 
for 
 20-30 years will produce witnessing-style precursors to 
 enlightenment--in some people less time, in others more. If they 
stop 
 meditating, the witnessing mode will fade. The reason? It does not 
take 
 you to the place where vasanas are obliterated (vasana-kshara, 
lit. 
 the collapse of vasanas).

There may be a place where vasanas are obliterated but unless they 
are no longer attractive then the obliteration is only temporary. It 
is the desire for objects that is the root cause for vasanas in the 
first place. Until that basic outward desire is remedied there will 
be no end to the development of vasanas. This is why transcending is 
so important, it demostrates in an experiential manner the 
difference between witnessing and thinking.

Rick Carlstrom





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Medicated Baby Boomer Ru's



--- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   
   -Celibacy is also OCD.
  
  I guess so, wouldn't know. I never understood why
 anyone would go 
 that 
  route. Have you tried it?
  
  
  2 years when I was on purusha.  When even
 trees and animals 
 started looking sexy I was honest with myself and
 decided to go.
 
 yeah, the sex drive is too powerful to be willed
 away. I've wrestled 
 with it often.

I was on Purusha when it first started. We moved to
MIU and during the springtime I was assigned to go
around and work on thermostats in all the dorms and
pods. One fine Spring day I turned the corner around a
pod and there before my eye lay three beautiful
topless MIU girls sunning themselves in a little
alcove. Oh my God! My kundalini roared to life in my
second chakra. I just couldn't get the image of that
sea of undulating breats and firm flesh from my mind.
I left Purusha soon afterward a got a girlfriend for
the first time in about ten years and screwed my
brains out. Never felt better in my life!



 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY answers questions about Guru Dev

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
**SNIP**
  
 Before you meditate imagine Guru Dev and bow to him.
 Imagine MMY and bow to him. Imagine every single
 spiritual teacher that you have learned anything from
 and bow to them. Imagine the entirity of creation and
 bow to it. Imagine God and bow to Him/Her. No close
 your eyes and let go. Do nothing. Rest in the deepest
 gratitude and authentic respect and just be present.
 Rest in absolute nothingness.it will swallow
 you. 
 
**END**

Yes.  Set up some place in your home where you meditate and fill it 
with the pictures of those saints and heroes in your life who 
inspire you.  Surround yourself with the arrows in your life that 
point you towards who you really are.  So then, everywhere you look, 
there's a great being who's directly pointing at your heart.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Sem victim's family has an attorney

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Well, I'm biased here having worked with many
 schizophrenics. It is possible that the schizophrenia
 was in remission, but if you interact for any amount
 of time even with someone with schizophrenia in
 remission, there is always something you detect. But
 you have to have dealt with schizophrenics clinically
 to see this.

***
I'm speaking as an outsider here. So my information may be only so 
good. But here goes: There's no reason to believe that Admissions 
officers would have worked with schizophrenics. But the point about 
deterioration that I was making was this - after Sem became a student, 
students who lived around him did think he was getting to be a bit 
strange. So there seems to have been a change between the time he 
initially visited the campus and the time that the murder took place.

 But why wasn't a medical history taken?
 Would that be on a college application?

***
From what I've been told, it is illegal for a college to inquire into 
a prospective student's prior mental health history. I thought we went 
through all of this when the murder took place. 

My understanding is that MUM has made some changes so that, once 
people come to MUM to be students, it is more likely that the odd 
behavior Sem was exhibiting would be noticed and acted upon earlier.

 Nine to 12
 psychiatric admissions is incredible. The parents seem
 to be remise here.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 a fun experiment to try: close your eyes, and one by one eliminate 
 the motion of the mind; no projection right, left, up, down, 
 backwards, forwards. Just bring it to a quiet stop, no thought. 
 Allow the senses to continue to operate, just don't interact with 
 their objects.
 
 Then, where is I? no idea.
 
 If you attempt on the other hand to think your way into an 
 understanding of enlightenment, you will get some reasonable 
 approximate understanding, but the trick then is to use that as a 
 spur for the heart to thirst more for enlightenment, and not allow 
 the ego instead to pursue this idealized concept of enlightenment, 
 (leading to more musing and thinking). Stupid ego. 
 
 It always sounds so complicated when it is thought about. Works a 
 lot better to just not think about it. Then you will find it, and 
 all of your answers will come quickly and effortlessly.  

It's a lot better just to not think about it, well there's a 
discussion stopper. It just makes me feel sorry for all those great 
minds over the centuries that spent their entire lives trying to 
express abstract spiritual truths on paper. Think of all the effort 
they could have saved by instructing everyone to just not think 
about it. Uh oh, two thinks in one sentence, way too much thinking 
going on.OSF*

*obligatory smiley face (first instituted by LBS)

Rick Carlstrom






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Medicated Baby Boomer Ru's

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I was on Purusha when it first started. We moved to
 MIU and during the springtime I was assigned to go
 around and work on thermostats in all the dorms and
 pods. One fine Spring day I turned the corner around a
 pod and there before my eye lay three beautiful
 topless MIU girls sunning themselves in a little
 alcove. Oh my God! My kundalini roared to life in my
 second chakra. I just couldn't get the image of that
 sea of undulating breats and firm flesh from my mind.
 I left Purusha soon afterward a got a girlfriend for
 the first time in about ten years and screwed my
 brains out. Never felt better in my life!
 
talk about wish fulfillment- great story! Thanks for sharing- ha-ha-
ha!
 
  
  
  
  
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment



--- Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

snip
 
 Dear Peter,
 
  You have done such a good job of explaining
 this I no I 
 thing frontwards, backwards, sideways and inside
 out. Even though 
 many are not experiencing this state of mind or no
 mind right now, I 
 think that with a little quiet contemplation most
 can at least know 
 abstractly what it is that you are talking about.
 The problem is 
 that the idea of a driver of action is just kind of
 swept under the 
 rug of God/Nature/Mystery which says to me that
 although there is a 
 real shift of awareness being experienced there is
 some 
 understanding that is missing. Until this
 understanding is opened up 
 some I don't think that the questions of
 responsibility in action 
 by enlightened individuals can be resolved to any
 statisfaction.

Agreed


 
 This idea starts to sound like there is a great and
 powerful Oz 
 making all things happen from behind the curtain and
 any attempts to 
 understand it are just the mind trying to keep
 itself busy so you 
 better just forget it.

I'm not trying to imply that.


 
 Is it possible that, the experience of there being
 no I to intend 
 or not to intend is based on the recognition that
 ego as has always 
 been identified with as I is actually not Self
 therefore I do 
 not exist. Maybe a more accurate statement would be:
 therefore I 
 is not the ego.

No. I and the ego are one and the same. Rick, let me
ask you a question. Why this powerful protest about
the I disappearing? I contend that it is because of
the the I/consciousness confound. But why do you
stuggle with it?  

 
 Didn't you say in an earlier post that your teacher
 Ravi Shankar
 (spl?) mentioned something about this experience of
 no I being 
 something that could occur in the process of growth
 towards 
 realization. Did he elaborate on that at all?

No, he did not elaborate. I started thinking about the
ego identifying with everything and therefore having
no separation and did not follow-up with anymore
questions.




 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment


On Jun 9, 2005, at 1:14 PM, Rick wrote:

 There may be a place where vasanas are obliterated but unless they
 are no longer attractive then the obliteration is only temporary.

One would have to repeat the same cause that created he vasana and 
then seal it--otherwise it will not recur.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Medicated Baby Boomer Ru's



--- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I was on Purusha when it first started. We moved
 to
  MIU and during the springtime I was assigned to go
  around and work on thermostats in all the dorms
 and
  pods. One fine Spring day I turned the corner
 around a
  pod and there before my eye lay three beautiful
  topless MIU girls sunning themselves in a little
  alcove. Oh my God! My kundalini roared to life in
 my
  second chakra. I just couldn't get the image of
 that
  sea of undulating breats and firm flesh from my
 mind.
  I left Purusha soon afterward a got a girlfriend
 for
  the first time in about ten years and screwed my
  brains out. Never felt better in my life!
  
 talk about wish fulfillment- great story! Thanks for
 sharing- ha-ha-
 ha!

Even now I still laugh about it. It was like getting
hit by a nuclear lust bomb. I just exploded with lust.
Pure lust roaring through every cell in my body.
Aching screaming lust. I just wanted to
UKKK!!


  
   
   
   
   
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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY answers questions about Guru Dev

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Yes.  Set up some place in your home where you meditate and fill it 
 with the pictures of those saints and heroes in your life who 
 inspire you.  Surround yourself with the arrows in your life that 
 point you towards who you really are.  So then, everywhere you look, 
 there's a great being who's directly pointing at your heart.

this is a much more powerful technique than I first realized. I have 
done this from time to time, yet it has overwhelmed me also, sometimes 
simultaneously creating a presence of the saints, and a gulf between 
them (the saints) and me that is unresolvable. Very, very powerful! 

I am currently in a phase where I have taken down my makeshift altar. 
Will probably put it up again sometime. Using the 'television channel' 
instead.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 --- Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
   On Jun 9, 2005, at 11:22 AM, Rick wrote:
   
Are you saying that this directly addresses
  Transcendental 
  Meditation?
   
   All forms of meditation which work at transcending
  thought, not just 
   TM©.
  
  I agree, forms of meditation that work at
  transcending thought by 
  their very nature bind one to thought.
 
 Can you say more about this? I don't understand.
,

It just goes to the basic TM premise that it is an effortless 
process. Contrary to how some feel, I personally feel that my TM 
practice is effortless and that I have no goal while engaged in it. 
Any meditation that has some thought of what should be happening, 
such as clear your mind of thoughts, is bound to thought no matter 
how subtle the thought. This includes TM if it is done with a goal 
in mind. Transcending the intellect can occur by accident under many 
conditions and through many practices but consistency is effective.

I think the key word is work; forms of meditation that work at 
transcending thought by their very nature bind one to thought.

Rick Carlstrom




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It's a lot better just to not think about it, well there's a 
 discussion stopper. It just makes me feel sorry for all those great 
 minds over the centuries that spent their entire lives trying to 
 express abstract spiritual truths on paper. Think of all the effort 
 they could have saved by instructing everyone to just not think 
 about it. Uh oh, two thinks in one sentence, way too much thinking 
 going on.OSF*
 
 *obligatory smiley face (first instituted by LBS)
 
 Rick Carlstrom

yeah I understand the paradox. I was speaking more to me about the 
impossibility of actually describing the state of no 'I'. Also noting 
that at some point we have to just do it. 

All I can say is that God must laugh his ass off over this quandry we 
all face- how to describe the path leading to Him. You must admit it 
is pretty comical!




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Medicated Baby Boomer Ru's

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Even now I still laugh about it. It was like getting
 hit by a nuclear lust bomb. I just exploded with lust.
 Pure lust roaring through every cell in my body.
 Aching screaming lust. I just wanted to
 UKKK!!
 
yeah, went through something similar (though wasn't 'trying' to be 
celibate- just ended up that way). oops, better be careful or Kirk's 
gonna get started...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY answers questions about Guru Dev

2005-06-09 Thread Premanand Paul Mason

http://www.paulmason.info/x/MMYonGD.mp3




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I think the key word is work; forms of meditation that work at 
 transcending thought by their very nature bind one to thought.

aspirin, please.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Charlie's Chakras





I loved the rudraksha story. I have a 20+mm 
rudraksha kantha from Neeta and I wear that along with a 13mm crystal mala 
all the time. Not infrequently, when I'm in court I'll get up and walk 
around while I'm arguing or asking questions and I'll notice these puzzled 
looks on the faces of the judge or the court reporter or opposing 
counsel because they rattle and clack against each other as I move. 
They can't quite figure out what that noise is. No one has ever 
asked, though.Marek-It's the sound of Shiva's 
damaru. 


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

Work in the context I used it was meant to be to accomplish, achieve; 
to cause, produce NOT To produce or cause by continued application of 
physical [or mental] force.  Why was that not obvious? Am I being 
unclear? If so, I apologize.

Therefore achieve transcendence of thought would be a way to say what 
was intended--although I'm sure there's a way to semantically twist 
that if that's the game you wish to play!

On Jun 9, 2005, at 1:41 PM, Rick wrote:

 I think the key word is work; forms of meditation that work at
 transcending thought by their very nature bind one to thought.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment





I agree, forms of meditation that work at 
transcending thought by their very nature bind one to 
thought.Honestly, I never understood 
the transcending thought thing. Since the beginning for me there has been 
consciousness, thought and mantra all at the same time. The mantra has never 
changed or gotten finer, the thoughts have never gotten more subtle, and the 
consciousness has never gotten different. But each thing has grown 
moreaware in terms of itself. If that makes 
sense.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Moron Bush beat..... (was 'Moron' Bush Beat Kerry at Yale)





it is fun to laugh at him; keeps us off balance. Why do 
you think the democrats are such a weak mess right now?-Fuck Democrats. Fuck 
Republicans. It's all over for the US. 


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY answers questions about Guru Dev





And/Or, you could do puja to Guru 
Dev.Marek---And/or 
you could do a puja to Shiva.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 --- Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(snip)
 
  
  Is it possible that, the experience of there being
  no I to intend 
  or not to intend is based on the recognition that
  ego as has always 
  been identified with as I is actually not Self
  therefore I do 
  not exist. Maybe a more accurate statement would be:
  therefore I 
  is not the ego.
 
 No. I and the ego are one and the same. Rick, let me
 ask you a question. Why this powerful protest about
 the I disappearing? I contend that it is because of
 the the I/consciousness confound. But why do you
 stuggle with it?  

Of course it could be just my fear of an I disappearing, I am not 
so stupid as to deny the possibility that I may not know all that 
there is to know, but, this discussion may also be about a greater 
understanding of the dissolution of ego and how that relates to the 
broader sense of I that is often hinted at in the Vedas and such.

Things like Curving back upon myself I create again and again 
indicate a sense of consciousness knowing itself. Consciousness is 
conscious. When people say hey, its not me, things are just 
happening, I wonder, what is noticing that? We end up back in 
duality, there is a witnessing of action and then there is some 
God/Nature/Mystery that is responsible for this action.

Why do you struggle with it? I am reminded of the invasion of the 
body snatchers where the holdouts are encouraged to just go to 
sleep, everything will be okay. OSF

Rick Carlstrom






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment






Oh thanks. We'll see. Turns out it wouldn't be for 
another 4-6 weeks. They're just building the place now. Not sure I 
really care to be honest. They didn't know what the hell they were doing and I'm 
not sure they would understand the process if someone who knew came to work for 
them. 

I am working right now part time at B-K- 
(Mardi-Gras Place) doing cooking demos on weekends. It pays better than any 
other job I ever had, except it's part time. Until I find something that's as 
relaxing and pays just as well I'm not going to worry about it. That or until 
the wife boxes my ears, whichever comes first. 



- Original Message - 
From: jim_flanegin 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:33 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment
here's sincerely hoping that you get the job if you want 
it!


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 I agree, forms of meditation that work at transcending thought by 
 their very nature bind one to thought.
 
 
 
 
 Honestly, I never understood the transcending thought thing. 
Since the beginning for me there has been consciousness, thought and 
mantra all at the same time. The mantra has never changed or gotten 
finer, the thoughts have never gotten more subtle, and the 
consciousness has never gotten different. But each thing has grown 
more aware in terms of itself. If that makes sense.

yeah I've had the same experience. More overall awareness, but as you 
say, evrything else has stayed the same




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 On Jun 9, 2005, at 1:14 PM, Rick wrote:
 
  There may be a place where vasanas are obliterated but unless 
they
  are no longer attractive then the obliteration is only temporary.
 
 One would have to repeat the same cause that created he vasana and 
 then seal it--otherwise it will not recur.

Exactly. The question is if the vasana is obliterated through 
technique does that ensure that the same vasana will never again be 
able to be created? Does the technique cause a fundamental change in 
the one that created the vasana in the first place or does it just 
erase the vasana?

Rick Carlstrom 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Of course it could be just my fear of an I disappearing, 

yeah it is. No big deal. When I do a stillness of the mind meditation, 
sometimes my heart goes nuts briefly at first, silly panic and 
distress, ha-ha!!. Just the stupid ego trying to reassert itself as a 
result of lifetimes of habit. Then the mind stops thinking and the 
game is over. Oh, and of course:

The information and materials contained in these pages - and the 
terms, conditions, and descriptions that appear - are subject to 
change. Not all products and services are available in all geographic 
areas. Your eligibility for particular products and services is 
subject to final determination and acceptance by the entity providing 
such products or services. -- part of a Citicorp warranty statement, 
which applies pretty well. 




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment






I have this figured out for myself. Maybe this will 
help you who haven't or maybe not. 

Thoughts arise. They arise from different places. 
In the body. Different places in space. If one is broad then when thoughts move 
one can act to satisfy them. One is then working for the cosmos.

What happens though is the thoughts reach a culmination 
in the brain where they are vocalized. By the time they are vocalized and 
thought over they have left the more subtle realm from which they arose, and are 
therefore not so easily manifested. 

At that point, the grasping after them further lessens 
their power. The rememberance of the thought and its concatenation even further 
binds the thought until it is completely out of synch with the circumstances 
from which it arose. At this point, to act upon the thought is to be attacking 
the outercircles of the mandala of oneself. 

If one doesn't identify with any thought, or become 
attached to any thought then as a thought arises then it also is a reflection of 
circumstances, or better yet, is spontaneously arisen from the very source of 
thought. If left untouched then it liberates into awareness. If it's still in 
the energetic space and one can sense where it's going then to work with it then 
makes its fulfillment easier.

The ego may very well still exist as the repository of 
the basic space of the phenomena, but the thoughts are not belonging to the ego, 
but to basic matter/space itself, and one is merely a gardener cultivating ones 
garden. 

This only applies to the person who lives with energy 
and not with matter in a concrete way. 

Just let go. Then see what arises, and go with 
that. The body is The Temple. Then Temple knows what it needs. 


The problem is when the outer cemetary of the mind - 
the ego, trys to run it. 



- Original Message - 
From: Rick 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 12:25 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
"jim_flanegin" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... 
wrote: a fun experiment to try: close your eyes, and one by one 
eliminate  the motion of the mind; no projection right, left, up, down, 
 backwards, forwards. Just bring it to a quiet stop, no thought. 
 Allow the senses to continue to operate, just don't interact with 
 their objects.  Then, where is I? no idea. 
 If you attempt on the other hand to think your way into an  
understanding of enlightenment, you will get some reasonable  
approximate understanding, but the trick then is to use that as a  spur 
for the heart to thirst more for enlightenment, and not allow  the ego 
instead to pursue this idealized concept of enlightenment,  (leading to 
more musing and thinking). Stupid ego.   It always sounds so 
complicated when it is thought about. Works a  lot better to just not 
think about it. Then you will find it, and  all of your answers will 
come quickly and effortlessly. "It's a lot better just to not 
think about it", well there's a discussion stopper. It just makes me feel 
sorry for all those great minds over the centuries that spent their entire 
lives trying to express abstract spiritual truths on paper. Think of all the 
effort they could have saved by instructing everyone to just not think 
about it. Uh oh, two "thinks" in one sentence, way too much thinking 
going on.OSF**obligatory smiley face (first instituted by 
LBS)Rick CarlstromTo subscribe, 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Medicated Baby Boomer Ru's






lay three beautiful topless MIU girls sunning themselves 
in a little alcove. Oh my God! 


Trishakti?


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Re: [FairfieldLife] MMY answers questions about Guru Dev

2005-06-09 Thread Bhairitu

gerbal88 wrote:

--- In Message 1935 of 2016 at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Premanand Paul Mason 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

MMY answers questions about Guru Dev.
[...]
...And I was never interested who was given what mantra. I was 
interested in myself. [laughter and giggling]...
[...] 
... Out of that fullness I started to teach. [MMY pauses, slight 
audience laughter] At least by practice people could rise and raise 
themselves up.



Thank you, Paul, for posting this. I read it a couple of days ago and 
have been turning it over in my mind. At first, I felt some 
irritation, a kind of I knew it, Maharishi is only
interested in 
himself! But I continued to reflect and began to consider that there 
was something more to this. 

All the interest, dedication, commitment to others is a good thing, 
of course. But without interest, dedication, commitment to one's
own 
spiritual development (fully humanizing oneself before setting out to 
help others), which I hope is what Maharishi is saying, nothing 
really useful is going to be achieved. The more I thought about this 
and other things Maharishi said over the years, things he said to me 
personally and to others around him, the more I have felt a release 
from the rather too obvious nuttiness of the TMO and a now paranoid 
dependent old man who no longer is or can ever again be my teacher.

I was interested in myself and Out of that
fullness seems to me 
to be the key teaching, the summation of what Maharishi was doing all 
those years: setting an example (never quite a good one with respect 
to the cultural milieu I knew, but the best example he could come up 
with, nonetheless). *Find what is right for you, penetrate it as 
deeply as you possibly can and then, once you have determined it is 
going to benefit you and, according to my cultural milieu, allow you 
to benefit others, go for it*.

I abandoned Maharishi and his organized loonies a long time ago; but 
never quite saw through the mirage I had set up for myself about him 
until I pondered this lovely piece of very interesting insight 
or 
was it my own insight I was pondering. I don't know.

  

snip

I gave up on the Movement in 1985 when I was charged $185 for what 
turned out to be an intro lecture on Ayurveda I could have given myself. 
I have spent the last 5 years with a tantric guru who only recently 
authorized me to teach yogic meditation. This is a technique that can be 
traced back centuries in our tradition. It is not something he made up.

To be fair to MMY however we all probably wanted and still want to teach 
meditation for a very selfish reason: to try to get rid of the drag in 
society. We want to see more coherent thinking in the folks we deal with 
day to day whether it be the cashier who screws up your change or the 
boss who can't see past his own nose.

Several years ago I was giving astrology readings for the folks at work. 
In one case, a young woman, who was the admin for my department was in 
danger of loosing her job because she was flaking out, disorganized, 
forgetting to do things etc. I gave her a mantra based on her horoscope 
and it was amazing to see how quickly she came together and is today a 
successful person.

Jai Ma,
- Bhairitu



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Wake Me...When Kali-Yuga's Over...

2005-06-09 Thread Bhairitu

And of course some folks believe the Age of Aquarius is here already 
though it won't be for about another 300 years.

gullible fool wrote:

 
I wouldn't give up yet, Robert. Sat Yuga is not
supposed to be here until Guru Purnimah. Give it
another five weeks.
 
--- Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  

Sorry, I'm just a little discouraged that kali-yuga
is here to stay, 
at least for a while...







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[FairfieldLife] Making vaasanaas to disappear??

2005-06-09 Thread cardemaister


Yoga-kuNDalyupaniSat is a yoga-upanishad. It's
number 86 of the 108 well-known upanishads, belonging
to kRSNa-yajur-veda. It starts like this:

(yogakuNDalyupanishhadyogasiddhihR^idaasanam.h .
nirvisheshhabrahmatattva.n svamaatramiti chintaye .. 
AUM saha naavavatu saha nau bhunaktu saha viirya.n karavaavahai .
tejasvinaavadhiitamastu maa vidvishhaavahai ..
AUM shaantiH shaantiH shaantiH ..
hariH AUM ) .. hetudvaya.n hi chittasya vaasanaa cha samiiraNaH .
tayorvinashhTa ekasmi.nstaddvaavapi vinashyataH .. 1..
tayoraadau samiirasya jaya.n kuryaannaraH sadaa .

It seems to say something like this:

The two reasons (hetu-dvayam) of mind, or stuff (citta)  are
vaasanaa and samiiraNa (=praaNa??). If of those two (tayoH)
one (ekasmin) is destroyed (vinaSTe), both (tat; dvau) become
destroyed (vinashyataH). Of those two (tayoH) in the beginning
(aadau) one (naraH = man) should do (kuryaat) always (sadaa)
controlling (jayam) of samiira (praaNa??).







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

2005-06-09 Thread Robert Gimbel




too silly!jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course it could be just my fear of an "I" disappearing, yeah it is. No big deal. When I do a stillness of the mind meditation, sometimes my heart goes nuts briefly at first, silly panic and distress, ha-ha!!. Just the stupid ego trying to reassert itself as a result of lifetimes of habit. Then the mind stops thinking and the game is over. Oh, and of course:"The information and materials contained in these pages - and the terms, conditions, and descriptions that appear - are subject to change. Not all products and services are available in all geographic areas. Your eligibility for particular products and services is subject to final determination and acceptance by the entity providing such products or services." -- part of a Citicorp warranty
 statement, which applies pretty well. To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 


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[FairfieldLife] 'Ego/Cosmic Consciousness/God Consciousness...'

2005-06-09 Thread Robert Gimbel

When we get over the fear of losing self, small self, ego, and start 
experiencing pure consciousness more clearly, then we get into CC.
Then, we start to experience that the pure consciousness, has movement 
to it, within itself, self-referral as Maharishi says ...
Well, we start to find   this pure consciousness, has a rythmn and 
reason to it, even musically, and we can follow the flow of it, just 
out of curiousity, and it feels a lot like the flow of bliss or love.
Then, we find that this flow of pure consciousness, has a certain 
power behind it, depending on how infused the flow is with love, or 
bliss,compassion, or pure intention, whatever you'd like to call it.
Well, how do we keep the ego, still lurking in the shadows, at bey, 
always ready to ponce and take the power back to it's little self?
So, however we can stay in the self-referral frame, we stay out of the 
ego. I guess that is the trick...or the surrender..to Self.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Ego/Cosmic Consciousness/God Consciousness...'

Robt Gimbel wrote:
I guess that is the trick

For me, the trick is not to try so hard, not to manipulate. These 
things will take care of themselves in due time. Otherwise, it seems 
such a joke - the ego trying to stop the ego from interfering - why 
should it participate in its own annihilation?

a

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 When we get over the fear of losing self, small self, ego, and start 
 experiencing pure consciousness more clearly, then we get into CC.
 Then, we start to experience that the pure consciousness, has 
movement 
 to it, within itself, self-referral as Maharishi says ...
 Well, we start to find   this pure consciousness, has a rythmn and 
 reason to it, even musically, and we can follow the flow of it, just 
 out of curiousity, and it feels a lot like the flow of bliss or love.
 Then, we find that this flow of pure consciousness, has a certain 
 power behind it, depending on how infused the flow is with love, or 
 bliss,compassion, or pure intention, whatever you'd like to call it.
 Well, how do we keep the ego, still lurking in the shadows, at bey, 
 always ready to ponce and take the power back to it's little self?
 So, however we can stay in the self-referral frame, we stay out of 
the 
 ego. I guess that is the trick...or the surrender..to Self.




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[FairfieldLife] Life in Fairfield, What An Experience! -- What Are You Experiencing?

2005-06-09 Thread Dharma Mitra

An easy request of our Fairfield residents and campus participants: 
What's life like at MUM and how have you experienced being enrolled
with or dealing with the University?

Dharma Mitra
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Helping you Say It With Panache!

 - Copywriting - Editing - Publishing - Publicity -


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

It's interesting how each point of view has an explanation for how the 
other is entirely wrong. Vaj's pov states that techniques that 
transcend thought are of limited value.

Maharishi's pov as expressed in the sci lesson on consideration of 
other systems was that: Any system that transcends its own activity 
is Transcendental Meditation; any system that does not is not being 
worthy of being called a system.

Funny, the difference.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Work in the context I used it was meant to be to accomplish, 
achieve; 
 to cause, produce NOT To produce or cause by continued application 
of 
 physical [or mental] force.  Why was that not obvious? Am I being 
 unclear? If so, I apologize.
 
 Therefore achieve transcendence of thought would be a way to say 
what 
 was intended--although I'm sure there's a way to semantically twist 
 that if that's the game you wish to play!
 
 On Jun 9, 2005, at 1:41 PM, Rick wrote:
 
  I think the key word is work; forms of meditation that work at
  transcending thought by their very nature bind one to thought.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Ego/Cosmic Consciousness/God Consciousness...'

Ramana makes the same point in a funny way. He says
working with the ego is like asking the thief that
broke into your house to look for the thief that broke
into your house.

--- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Robt Gimbel wrote:
 I guess that is the trick
 
 For me, the trick is not to try so hard, not to
 manipulate. These 
 things will take care of themselves in due time.
 Otherwise, it seems 
 such a joke - the ego trying to stop the ego from
 interfering - why 
 should it participate in its own annihilation?
 
 a
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert
 Gimbel 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  When we get over the fear of losing self, small
 self, ego, and start 
  experiencing pure consciousness more clearly, then
 we get into CC.
  Then, we start to experience that the pure
 consciousness, has 
 movement 
  to it, within itself, self-referral as Maharishi
 says ...
  Well, we start to find   this pure consciousness,
 has a rythmn and 
  reason to it, even musically, and we can follow
 the flow of it, just 
  out of curiousity, and it feels a lot like the
 flow of bliss or love.
  Then, we find that this flow of pure
 consciousness, has a certain 
  power behind it, depending on how infused the flow
 is with love, or 
  bliss,compassion, or pure intention, whatever
 you'd like to call it.
  Well, how do we keep the ego, still lurking in the
 shadows, at bey, 
  always ready to ponce and take the power back to
 it's little self?
  So, however we can stay in the self-referral
 frame, we stay out of 
 the 
  ego. I guess that is the trick...or the
 surrender..to Self.
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Medicated Baby Boomer Ru's



--- Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  lay three beautiful
  topless MIU girls sunning themselves in a little
  alcove. Oh my God! 
 
 
 Trishakti?


must have been!




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Re: [FairfieldLife] MMY answers questions about Guru Dev






I gave up on the Movement in 1985 when I was charged $185 for what 
turned out to be an intro lecture on Ayurveda I could have given myself. 
I have spent the last 5 years with a tantric guru who only recently 
authorized me to teach yogic meditation. This is a technique that can be 
traced back centuries in our tradition. It is not something he made 
up.

Who is your guru?To be fair to MMY 
however we all probably wanted and still want to teach meditation for a very 
selfish reason: to try to get rid of the "drag" in society. We want to see 
more coherent thinking in the folks we deal with day to day whether it be 
the cashier who screws up your change or the boss who can't see past his own 
nose.

You know what? You're right. A lot of drag 
out there. It's really frustrating. Just last night, I walked to the video 
store. My wife and I are watching "The Shield" from start to finish. We 
had seen season one. Each season is four DVDs, but they only have the DVD 
1 and 2 case on the shelf. So I took that case and asked if they had the 
whole thing. They said, all three seasons, no. I said I mean the whole season, 
and they said, yes but it's two separate DVDs. So I said fine. Then she gave me 
only two DVDs instead of the 4 DVDs. So I asked her for the other 2. So finally 
I got all four DVDs for the 2nd season. 

But when I got home I had the wrong season. So I had to 
go back to the store and get the right season. Then the girl asked if I 
wanted all the season 2 DVDs. You're sick of hearing about it? 
That's life. One person's fuck up spirals out of control, and we get a George 
Bush running to war over a misplaced comma. 

Much of what we call society is about the misplaced 
commas. People unscrewing their hot water bottle caps all through program. 
There's no fucking sense in this world. None at all whatsoever. The 
few people who do make sense don't have many friends. 
Several years ago I was giving astrology readings for the folks at 
work. In one case, a young woman, who was the admin for my department was in 
danger of loosing her job because she was flaking out, disorganized, 
forgetting to do things etc. I gave her a mantra based on her horoscope 
and it was amazing to see how quickly she came together and is today a 
successful person.

I'd be curious to know what mantra system you use. 
Jai Ma,- Bhairitu

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Ego/Cosmic Consciousness/God Consciousness...'






For me, the "trick" is not to try so hard, not to manipulate. These 
things will take care of themselves in due time. Otherwise, it seems 
such a joke - the ego trying to stop the ego from interfering - why 
should it participate in its own annihilation?

-If you can show me an ego I 
can tell you how to annihilate it. 

It's not about annihilating 
something. Just like it's not about killing the neighbor with the stereo. 


It's about learning to hear the 
silence through the music, and seeing what isn't of the ego. Then it's all good 
in the hood.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Work in the context I used it was meant to be to accomplish, 
achieve; 
 to cause, produce NOT To produce or cause by continued 
application of 
 physical [or mental] force.  Why was that not obvious? Am I being 
 unclear? If so, I apologize.
 
 Therefore achieve transcendence of thought would be a way to say 
what 
 was intended--although I'm sure there's a way to semantically 
twist 
 that if that's the game you wish to play!

No reason to get snippy my friend, I'm just trying to be clear on 
what you are saying.

Rick Carlstrom
 
 On Jun 9, 2005, at 1:41 PM, Rick wrote:
 
  I think the key word is work; forms of meditation that work at
  transcending thought by their very nature bind one to thought.




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[FairfieldLife] LLundrub would have done it.