date:20060614

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> That was really interesting, thanks! 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> > 
> > > Good points. This one interested me the most:
> > >
> > > "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely
> > > beyond science."
> > >
> > > It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I
> > > think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the
> > > world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply.  You
> > > mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at
> > > that from what I understand.  But Physics is a field driven by math
> > > skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of
> > > discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about
> > > life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these
> > > topics.  Because you have gained something from it, I will spend
> > > some more time thinking about it.
> > 
> > Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where  
> > he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he  
> > rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest  
> > spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for  
> > the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by  
> > extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum  
> > physics is pretty bad mysticism...
> > 
> > It's on page two:
> > 
> > http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html
> >
>

Well, let's see, Ken Wilber, a rather superficial (sorry Judy) philosopher who 
has had a few 
grad-level QM courses as part of his work in biology, concludes that QM can't 
have 
anything to do with "true mysticism," whatever that means, vs John Hagelin, who 
published 
a bunch of papers in the field, including the 27th most important paper of all 
time in the 
field.

Yeah, anyone that listens to Ken WIlber about anything shows bad mysticism.

Not only is his treatment of QM and strings (the most popular theory has 10 
dimensions, 
not 11 --the 11th is used to reconcile the various 10-dimensional theories with 
each 
other, IIRC) superficial, but his treatment of enlightenment is equally 
superficial.

Sheesh. This is the guy that everyone worships?

Wotta maroon.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

(But if I had my druthers, I'd like to have *both*
Kabir and Schroedinger...)

Good stuff, Curtis. Intellectualizing Can Be Fun!

The fact that you can embrace both makes it fun to discuss this stuff.
   I will give the rest of what you wrote more thought tomorrow.





--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> [Quoting Schroedinger:]
> > Let us see whether we cannot draw the correct, noncontradictory
> > > conclusion from the following two premises:
> > >
> > > (i) My body functions as a pure mechanism according to the Laws
> > > of Nature [determinism].
> > >
> > > (ii) Yet I know, by incontrovertible direct experience, that I
> > > am directing its motions, of which I foresee the effects, that
> > > may be fateful and all-important, in which case I feel and take
> > > full responsibility for them [free will].
> > >
> > > The only possible inference from these two facts is, I think,
> > > that I--I in the widest meaning of the word, that is to say,
> > > every conscious mind that has ever said "I"--am the person, if
> > > any, who controls the "motion of the atoms" according to the Laws
> > > of Nature.
> > 
> > 
> > I think I can put my finger on where I disagree with him.  it is
> > where he speaks on behalf of "every conscious mind that has ever 
> > said 'I'" and then jumps to controlling the motion of atoms. He 
> > should have said, "controls the motions of our own bodies". The
> > jump he is making is poetic but wrong. Just because we control our 
> > own bodies does not give us the right to claim controlling atoms.
> > The atomic level is working on its own without the participation of 
> > the consciousness that emerges from the functioning of our brains 
> > which is driven by laws of nature at a completely different level.
> > 
> > Am I missing something?
> 
> I'm not sure.  Let me take it point by point:
> 
> First of all, he's saying that you, Curtis, are not
> controlling your own body, as far as science is
> concerned.  Rather, it's the gunas, in TM-speak,
> that are doing it.  That you, Curtis, think *you*
> are doing it is an illusion.  "You" are, however,
> controlling the gunas from the transcendental
> perspective ("Be without the three gunas...")--not
> you the localized body and mind of Curtis, but You
> the universal, unbounded, nonlocal Self of everyone.
> 
> Second, he's not saying we (our small selves)
> have the sense of controlling only our bodies but
> of controlling our minds as well; but the "statistico-
> deterministic" laws as observed by science say
> that's also an illusion.
> 
> But I'm not sure either of these affect your
> point.
> 
> What you're saying, if I understand you, is that
> the control of our thoughts is an emergent property
> that doesn't follow the same laws as those that
> control "atoms" (actually the elementary particles
> that compose the atoms).
> 
> This claim, however, is just about as grand, and
> as unsupported by science, as his.  I don't think
> your problem with what he says is that he's making
> too big a leap; I think it's that you disagree with
> the premise he's assuming as the very basis for his
> argument.  He's saying the control of thought *does*
> follow the same laws as those that "control the atoms."
> You're saying control of thought is independent of
> the laws that "control the atoms."
> 
> That's a perfectly respectable philosophical
> position, but it's also essentially a "mystical"
> one in that science cannot observe or test it, any
> more than it can observe or test his.
> 
> At least, if I'm understanding you correctly...
> 
> > Here is what I consider better poetry in this genre.
> > 
> > Kabir through Bly through my memory:
> > 
> > Inside this clay jug there are canyons and pine mountains,
> > and the maker of canyons and pine mountains.
> > All seven oceans are inside, and hundreds of millions of stars.
> > The acid that tests gold is there, and the one who judges jewels.,
> > And the music from the strings no one touches,
> > and the source of all water.
> > If you want the truth I will tell you the truth,
> > friend listen:
> > The God whom I love is inside.
> > 
> > I think if we are going to make stuff up about reality this is the 
> > bar to clear!
> 
> It sure is magnificent poetry!  It would be a very
> high bar to clear in *any* context.
> 
> (But if I had my druthers, I'd like to have *both*
> Kabir and Schroedinger...)
> 
> Good stuff, Curtis.  Intellectualizing Can Be Fun!
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
[Quoting Schroedinger:]
> Let us see whether we cannot draw the correct, noncontradictory
> > conclusion from the following two premises:
> >
> > (i) My body functions as a pure mechanism according to the Laws
> > of Nature [determinism].
> >
> > (ii) Yet I know, by incontrovertible direct experience, that I
> > am directing its motions, of which I foresee the effects, that
> > may be fateful and all-important, in which case I feel and take
> > full responsibility for them [free will].
> >
> > The only possible inference from these two facts is, I think,
> > that I--I in the widest meaning of the word, that is to say,
> > every conscious mind that has ever said "I"--am the person, if
> > any, who controls the "motion of the atoms" according to the Laws
> > of Nature.
> 
> 
> I think I can put my finger on where I disagree with him.  it is
> where he speaks on behalf of "every conscious mind that has ever 
> said 'I'" and then jumps to controlling the motion of atoms. He 
> should have said, "controls the motions of our own bodies". The
> jump he is making is poetic but wrong. Just because we control our 
> own bodies does not give us the right to claim controlling atoms.
> The atomic level is working on its own without the participation of 
> the consciousness that emerges from the functioning of our brains 
> which is driven by laws of nature at a completely different level.
> 
> Am I missing something?

I'm not sure.  Let me take it point by point:

First of all, he's saying that you, Curtis, are not
controlling your own body, as far as science is
concerned.  Rather, it's the gunas, in TM-speak,
that are doing it.  That you, Curtis, think *you*
are doing it is an illusion.  "You" are, however,
controlling the gunas from the transcendental
perspective ("Be without the three gunas...")--not
you the localized body and mind of Curtis, but You
the universal, unbounded, nonlocal Self of everyone.

Second, he's not saying we (our small selves)
have the sense of controlling only our bodies but
of controlling our minds as well; but the "statistico-
deterministic" laws as observed by science say
that's also an illusion.

But I'm not sure either of these affect your
point.

What you're saying, if I understand you, is that
the control of our thoughts is an emergent property
that doesn't follow the same laws as those that
control "atoms" (actually the elementary particles
that compose the atoms).

This claim, however, is just about as grand, and
as unsupported by science, as his.  I don't think
your problem with what he says is that he's making
too big a leap; I think it's that you disagree with
the premise he's assuming as the very basis for his
argument.  He's saying the control of thought *does*
follow the same laws as those that "control the atoms."
You're saying control of thought is independent of
the laws that "control the atoms."

That's a perfectly respectable philosophical
position, but it's also essentially a "mystical"
one in that science cannot observe or test it, any
more than it can observe or test his.

At least, if I'm understanding you correctly...

> Here is what I consider better poetry in this genre.
> 
> Kabir through Bly through my memory:
> 
> Inside this clay jug there are canyons and pine mountains,
> and the maker of canyons and pine mountains.
> All seven oceans are inside, and hundreds of millions of stars.
> The acid that tests gold is there, and the one who judges jewels.,
> And the music from the strings no one touches,
> and the source of all water.
> If you want the truth I will tell you the truth,
> friend listen:
> The God whom I love is inside.
> 
> I think if we are going to make stuff up about reality this is the 
> bar to clear!

It sure is magnificent poetry!  It would be a very
high bar to clear in *any* context.

(But if I had my druthers, I'd like to have *both*
Kabir and Schroedinger...)

Good stuff, Curtis.  Intellectualizing Can Be Fun!

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

2006-06-14 Thread coshlnx

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> wrote:
> > However, there could be a good deal of semantic
> > ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity
> > consciousness.
> > 
> > In other words: Does he have the ability to want to
> > do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature
> > "wants"?
> >
> If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are 
> the same thing; indistinguishable.

This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Equally 
speculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMY 
would be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd, 
there are varying degrees of "what nature wants". In addition, there 
is much concrete evidence that the E'd can/do perform acts contrary 
to nature: say, molesting underage females. In addition, in the realm 
of economics, about the most we can say is that economics is 
inherently an evolutionary process; and in evolution there is a great 
deal of "trying out" things resulting in a vastic heuristic interplay 
of forces.  Even saying "what nature wants" is presumptuous 
tantamount to a tautology.  In essence, in view of the unscientific 
character of such claims as to a. not E'd - problematic but b. E'd 
OK, everything is supported by nature; this is a typical MMY urban 
myth.  I think it's high time - in the spirit of Sam Harris - to at 
least use a modicum of logic, if not a strong dose of scientific 
evidence.  Please, no "MMY said so" - therefore it must be true!. 
> 
> That is one of the completely different ways of functioning of an 
> enlightened person. Before enlightenment, it is all intention based 
> on ego, which is not a bad thing, just a lot harder. 
> 
> After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier 
> to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, 
and 
> in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it is 
simply 
> the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated 
> thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is just 
easier.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fearmonger Gore full of hot air

2006-06-14 Thread markmeredith2002

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

The author of the column below is a lobbyist for the Canadian utility
industry and is paid to spread misinformation about global warming.  

If you're really interested in this topic, read a little of the 1000s
of pages of research put out by the IPCC, the leading independent
group of real scientists who study this issue.  Also go to sites like
realclimate. org.  



> Guest Column
> Scientists respond to Gore's warnings of climate catastrophe
> "The Inconvenient Truth" is indeed inconvenient to alarmists
> By Tom Harris
> Monday, June 12, 2006 
> www.CanadianFreePress.com
> 
> "Scientists have an independent obligation to respect and present 
> the truth as they see it," Al Gore sensibly asserts in his film "An 
> Inconvenient Truth", showing at Cumberland 4 Cinemas in Toronto 
> since Jun 2. With that outlook in mind, what do world climate 
> experts actually think about the science of his movie? 
> 
> Professor Bob Carter of the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James 
> Cook University, in Australia gives what, for many Canadians, is a 
> surprising assessment: "Gore's circumstantial arguments are so weak 
> that they are pathetic. It is simply incredible that they, and his 
> film, are commanding public attention." 
> 
> But surely Carter is merely part of what most people regard as a 
> tiny cadre of "climate change skeptics" who disagree with the "vast 
> majority of scientists" Gore cites? 
> 
> No; Carter is one of hundreds of highly qualified non-governmental, 
> non-industry, non-lobby group climate experts who contest the 
> hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are causing 
> significant global climate change. "Climate experts" is the 
> operative term here. Why? Because what Gore's "majority of 
> scientists" think is immaterial when only a very small fraction of 
> them actually work in the climate field. 
> 
> Even among that fraction, many focus their studies on the impacts of 
> climate change; biologists, for example, who study everything from 
> insects to polar bears to poison ivy. "While many are highly skilled 
> researchers, they generally do not have special knowledge about the 
> causes of global climate change," explains former University of 
> Winnipeg climatology professor Dr. Tim Ball. "They usually can tell 
> us only about the effects of changes in the local environment where 
> they conduct their studies." 
> 
> This is highly valuable knowledge, but doesn't make them climate 
> change cause experts, only climate impact experts. 
> 
> So we have a smaller fraction. 
> 
> But it becomes smaller still. Among experts who actually examine the 
> causes of change on a global scale, many concentrate their research 
> on designing and enhancing computer models of hypothetical 
> futures. "These models have been consistently wrong in all their 
> scenarios," asserts Ball. "Since modelers concede computer outputs 
> are not "predictions" but are in fact merely scenarios, they are 
> negligent in letting policy-makers and the public think they are 
> actually making forecasts." 
> 
> We should listen most to scientists who use real data to try to 
> understand what nature is actually telling us about the causes and 
> extent of global climate change. In this relatively small community, 
> there is no consensus, despite what Gore and others would suggest. 
> 
> Here is a small sample of the side of the debate we almost never 
> hear: 
> 
> Appearing before the Commons Committee on Environment and 
> Sustainable Development last year, Carleton University 
> paleoclimatologist Professor Tim Patterson testified, "There is no 
> meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature 
> over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over 
> ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the 
> planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last 
> half billion years." Patterson asked the committee, "On the basis of 
> this evidence, how could anyone still believe that the recent 
> relatively small increase in CO2 levels would be the major cause of 
> the past century's modest warming?" 
> 
> Patterson concluded his testimony by explaining what his research 
> and "hundreds of other studies" reveal: on all time scales, there is 
> very good correlation between Earth's temperature and natural 
> celestial phenomena such changes in the brightness of the Sun. 
> 
> Dr. Boris Winterhalter, former marine researcher at the Geological 
> Survey of Finland and professor in marine geology, University of 
> Helsinki, takes apart Gore's dramatic display of Antarctic glaciers 
> collapsing into the sea. "The breaking glacier wall is a normally 
> occurring phenomenon which is due to the normal advance of a 
> glacier," says Winterhalter. "In Antarctica the temperature is low 
> enough to prohibit melting of the ice front, so if the ice is 
> grou

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

Let us see whether we cannot draw the correct, noncontradictory
> conclusion from the following two premises:
>
> (i) My body functions as a pure mechanism according to the Laws
> of Nature [determinism].
>
> (ii) Yet I know, by incontrovertible direct experience, that I
> am directing its motions, of which I foresee the effects, that
> may be fateful and all-important, in which case I feel and take
> full responsibility for them [free will].
>
> The only possible inference from these two facts is, I think,
> that I--I in the widest meaning of the word, that is to say,
> every conscious mind that has ever said "I"--am the person, if
> any, who controls the "motion of the atoms" according to the Laws
> of Nature.


I think I can put my finger on where I disagree with him.  it is where
he speaks on behalf of "every conscious mind that has ever said 'I'"
and then jumps to controlling the motion of atoms. He should have
said, "controls the motions of our own bodies". The jump he is making
is poetic but wrong. Just because we control our own bodies does not
give us the right to claim controlling atoms.The atomic level is
working on its own without the participation of the consciousness that
emerges from the functioning of our brains which is driven by laws of
nature at a completely different level.


Am I missing something?

Here is what I consider better poetry in this genre.

Kabir through Bly through my memory:

Inside this clay jug there are canyons and pine mountains,
and the maker of canyons and pine mountains.
All seven oceans are inside, and hundreds of millions of stars.
The acid that tests gold is there, and the one who judges jewels.,
And the music from the strings no one touches,
and the source of all water.
If you want the truth I will tell you the truth,
friend listen:
The God whom I love is inside.

I think if we are going to make stuff up about reality this is the bar
to clear!












--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Damn Judy, I am only working on one cup of coffee here!  Let me see if
> I can make an intelligible response!
> 
> > Coming back to this, because I think it's an
> > important point: If Unity consciousness is as
> > MMY defines it, and if he's in Unity consciousness,
> > it isn't *up* to MMY, independently of nature,
> > whether to perform siddhis.  It's nature's call.
> > 
> > So it wouldn't really be a falsifiable standard
> > after all.
> 
> I think he has already thrown his hat in to the ring of demonstrating
> student's flying for marketing purposes. So it seems like nature has
> spoken on this and just hasn't delivered the goods.  He has used the
> impression of science for his marketing and even revealed his strategy
> in his "Science of Being".  So it seems like it is too late for him to
> claim that nature just doesn't want him to blow people away and gain
> millions of followers by demonstrating something amazing. 
> 
> Maybe it was never meant as a falsifiable standard even though it was
> presented that way.  I may have been giving MMY too much credit for
> being sincere about his interest in proofs and testing.
> 
> Erwin Schroedinger's quote is interesting.  If my single cup of coffee
> brain can wrap around this multiple cups of coffee question...
> 
> I don't buy his conclusion.  He seems to be jumping levels of
> existence unnecessarily.  He starts with theory, determinism, goes to
> personal experience, free will, and then lapses into poetry.
> 
> I don't think his conclusion is logical at all, it is just put
> together out of his imagination.  It sounds beautiful, but it is not
> how I think of it.  When he is doing science he may be the man, but in
> his forays into philosophy he just sounds like an old-school Chopra.  
> 
> We psychologically experience our free will acting as well as the
> determined parts of our habits and the effects of past actions and
> experiences coming into play and interacting with our will.  Trying to
> drop a bad habit puts this in our face clearly.  As far as deciding if
> the universe has some designs on our personal actions, this is an area
> for philosophical speculations. Identifying our sense of "I" with the
> "I" controlling the motion of the atoms is more poetry than
> philosophy.  Not that poetry is bad, I love it.
> 
> So how do you understand it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Another wrinkle: what exactly does "able to do
> > > > the siddhis" actually mean in the context of
> > > > Unity consciousness?  Does it really mean "on
> > > > demand"?
> > > 
> > > This ends up in the broader question of free will and determinism in
> > > general in any state of consciousness.  Nice point about the
paradox.
> > > 
> > > I recognize, and others have pointed out, that MMY is unique in his
> > > perspective of siddhis.  Many other teachers claim

[FairfieldLife] Re: Frankenbees?

Thanks Sal. I think I understand now.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Oh, that happened *before* Curtis came here?  How time flies.  Sorry, 
> Curtis, I thought for sure you were here.  Well, anyway, see my last 
> post.  And I also thought the same thing Judy did...for the simple 
> reason that the name Brigante doesn't really sound like anything else, 
> and it's unlikely you'd have gotten it confused.
> 
> Sal
> 
> 
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 8:31 PM, authfriend wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Sal,
> >>
> >> I don't get it.  What am I missing?
> >
> > Long story, an episode that took place before
> > you made your appearance here; but she's suggesting
> > that Bob is lying.
> >
> > (Strangely enough, I got the sense you were
> > hinting that you thought there was something
> > fishy about his response too.)
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:42 PM, sparaig wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jun 14, 2006, at 4:02 PM, nablus108 wrote:
> >>
>  Does it make sense to go against the wishes of the person who gave
>  you the lineage you're supposedly teaching in--and then turn
> >>> around
>  and invoke that lineage as part of the initiation process? Or is
> >>> it
>  yours to use after you got it?
> 
>  It would probably be cheaper to go over to SSRS's branch of the
> >>> same
>  lineage and become a initiator there. And you'd still be doing
> >>> some
>  real world-service (or at least feel like you were).
> 
>  It was interesting at the MUM Donavan concert a couple of the
>  prospective MUM kids mentioned that they had to learn TM to come
>  there, *but only from a re-certified teacher*, otherwise no dice.
> >>> It
>  seems like such a scam.
> >>>
> >>> Someone "teaching" against the will of the Teacher is doing no good.
> >>> To himself, nor his/hers students.
> >>> Thats the real scam here.
> >>
> >>
> >> So what do you think of his response from the press conference?
> >>
> >
> > What, the "if they are getting somethign good out of it, we are  
> > satisfied" response?
> >
> > What did you expect him to say, "evil. EVIL..?
> 
> No, but I would've of liked to have been a fly on the wall as he  
> spent HOURS reaming out the recerts who re-upped for TM teacher boot  
> camp: some Maharishi reality TV. There's where the truth came out.  
> These public press conferences are all sanitized for the masses.
>

So, he was angry about something, but you don't know what...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Ironically, these sorts of super corridors will be the very death of the 
> country.
> 
> Perfect way for sending in a Trojan Horse.
> 
> 

We can't security-check all the containers coming in by sea, even though they 
don't zip by at 
70 mph. How are we going to prevent smuggling of weapons, WMDs and/or 
terrorists 
through such a system?

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars






> > Why do you think or feel Maharishi is not Shiva 
incarnate?> > > ---Moreover Shiva ia an ascetic, or naked 
awareness deva, and has no considerations of relative things. One can nap in 
shit, or live in a castle, it is all the same to Shiva.>Fair 
enough, so why is your earlier description of Maharishi's 'fucked up' life 
inconsistent with this?--I 
was merely offering consolation to the person who said their life was all fucked 
up. I was saying, 'nobody's perfect!' That's all!
 
But that said, I don't get your 
question. You related Maharishi to Shiva. I didn't. I said the opposite. 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

That was really interesting, thanks! 





--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> 
> > Good points. This one interested me the most:
> >
> > "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely
> > beyond science."
> >
> > It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I
> > think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the
> > world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply.  You
> > mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at
> > that from what I understand.  But Physics is a field driven by math
> > skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of
> > discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about
> > life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these
> > topics.  Because you have gained something from it, I will spend
> > some more time thinking about it.
> 
> Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where  
> he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he  
> rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest  
> spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for  
> the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by  
> extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum  
> physics is pretty bad mysticism...
> 
> It's on page two:
> 
> http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html
>






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?






Ironically, these sorts of super 
corridors will be the very death of the country.
 
Perfect way for sending in a Trojan 
Horse.
 
 
 
- Original Message - 
From: Vaj 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 6:39 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA 
Super Highway?
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=15497 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Frankenbees?

2006-06-14 Thread Sal Sunshine

Oh, that happened *before* Curtis came here?  How time flies.  Sorry, Curtis, I thought for sure you were here.  Well, anyway, see my last post.  And I also thought the same thing Judy did...for the simple reason that the name Brigante doesn't really sound like anything else, and it's unlikely you'd have gotten it confused.  

Sal


On Jun 14, 2006, at 8:31 PM, authfriend wrote:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sal,

I don't get it.  What am I missing?

Long story, an episode that took place before
you made your appearance here; but she's suggesting
that Bob is lying.

(Strangely enough, I got the sense you were
hinting that you thought there was something
fishy about his response too.)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Frankenbees?

2006-06-14 Thread Sal Sunshine

Oh, well I was just commenting that if you remember Bob working some place that he says he didn't (and the likelihood of someone else in the TMO having that same name would be about zilch, I would think) that maybe he's telling another whopper, similar to the one about Rick deleting one of his posts.

Sal


On Jun 14, 2006, at 8:10 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:

Sal,

I don't get it.  What am I missing?


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Curtis, I think I would put this in the "I didn't delete my post--Rick 
Archer did" file.

Sal


On Jun 14, 2006, at 4:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:

Thanks.  It is so funny that there was a Bob Brigante at the FLA
Sidhaland!


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante 
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
 wrote:
Bob,

Did we work at the Florida Capital together?  I used to work
with
the
bees there and helped sell the pollen.  I have wanted to have
hives
again ever since.  Varietal honey rocks!



*

I talked with you once or twice at MIU in the 70s, but I never
worked in FL.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Frankenbees?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Sal,
> 
> I don't get it.  What am I missing?

Long story, an episode that took place before
you made your appearance here; but she's suggesting
that Bob is lying.

(Strangely enough, I got the sense you were
hinting that you thought there was something
fishy about his response too.)


> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> wrote:
> >
> > Curtis, I think I would put this in the "I didn't delete my
post--Rick 
> > Archer did" file.
> > 
> > Sal
> > 
> > 
> > On Jun 14, 2006, at 4:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> > 
> > > Thanks.  It is so funny that there was a Bob Brigante at the FLA
> > > Sidhaland!
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante 
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> > >>  wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Bob,
> > >>>
> > >>> Did we work at the Florida Capital together?  I used to work
> > > with
> > >> the
> > >>> bees there and helped sell the pollen.  I have wanted to have
> > > hives
> > >>> again ever since.  Varietal honey rocks!
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> *
> > >>
> > >> I talked with you once or twice at MIU in the 70s, but I never
> > >> worked in FL.
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Frankenbees?

Sal,

I don't get it.  What am I missing?


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Curtis, I think I would put this in the "I didn't delete my post--Rick 
> Archer did" file.
> 
> Sal
> 
> 
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 4:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> 
> > Thanks.  It is so funny that there was a Bob Brigante at the FLA
> > Sidhaland!
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Bob,
> >>>
> >>> Did we work at the Florida Capital together?  I used to work
> > with
> >> the
> >>> bees there and helped sell the pollen.  I have wanted to have
> > hives
> >>> again ever since.  Varietal honey rocks!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> *
> >>
> >> I talked with you once or twice at MIU in the 70s, but I never
> >> worked in FL.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fearmonger Gore full of hot air

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Guest Column
> Scientists respond to Gore's warnings of climate catastrophe
> "The Inconvenient Truth" is indeed inconvenient to alarmists
> By Tom Harris
> Monday, June 12, 2006 
> www.CanadianFreePress.com
> 
> "Scientists have an independent obligation to respect and present 
> the truth as they see it," Al Gore sensibly asserts in his film "An 
> Inconvenient Truth", showing at Cumberland 4 Cinemas in Toronto 
> since Jun 2. With that outlook in mind, what do world climate 
> experts actually think about the science of his movie? 
> 
> Professor Bob Carter of the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James 
> Cook University

I don't have time to check on all of these guys,
but Carter has worked for a PR outfit called Tech
Central Station, which has received generous funding
from Exxon for work supporting Exxon's war against
the idea of global warming due to human activity.

I'd be willing to bet that most of the scientists
named in this article have similar connections.

For the opinions of real, working climate scientists
on Gore's movie, see:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/05/al-gores-movie/#more-299

Check the list of site contributors; very few of
them fit this writer's dismissive descriptions.

> Tom Harris is mechanical engineer and Ottawa Director of High Park 
> Group, a public affairs and public policy company. He can be reached 
> at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

High Park Group lobbies on behalf of the energy
industry.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 5:49 PM, Kirk wrote:
> 
> > a sign of guilt? or dualism of his mind? One would think 
that  
> > since he puts his photo on all his manifest actions he would 
place  
> > it in the Holy Tradition which is the source of his power.
> >
> > State of contemplation of Brahman is bliss and contentment. The  
> > sort which keeps a person in their cave for fourty years saying, 
no  
> > no no, I don't care to come out.
> >
> > Ostensibly one stays in their cave until someone demands their  
> > service. But one who is running forward after some goals here 
and  
> > there, is still in the duality of their senses and the objects 
of  
> > their senses.
> >
> > Oh, I don't think anyone in the Movement has the balls to 
question  
> > MMY. But if they did he probably would say straight up that he 
is  
> > not liberated. He is still in duality.
> >
> > I am denigrating him any longer. I do admire him. He might be 
much  
> > much more evolved that I will ever be, but he does not have the  
> > characteristics of those of the Holy Tradition.
> 
> Well I think he should get the toll booth attendent to the Holy 
Trad.  
> position. With an airbrush, it'd be easy to stencil in--standin'  
> there collectin' the tokens to the turnpike to enlightenment. 

There's only room for one, and you're it, self-proclaimed...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Wars

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> Why do you think or feel Maharishi is not Shiva incarnate?
> 
> 
> ---Moreover Shiva ia an ascetic, or naked awareness deva, and has no 
considerations of relative things. One can nap in shit, or live in a 
castle, it is all the same to Shiva.
>
Fair enough, so why is your earlier description of Maharishi's 'fucked 
up' life inconsistent with this?

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[FairfieldLife] Fearmonger Gore full of hot air

2006-06-14 Thread shempmcgurk

Guest Column
Scientists respond to Gore's warnings of climate catastrophe
"The Inconvenient Truth" is indeed inconvenient to alarmists
By Tom Harris
Monday, June 12, 2006 
www.CanadianFreePress.com

"Scientists have an independent obligation to respect and present 
the truth as they see it," Al Gore sensibly asserts in his film "An 
Inconvenient Truth", showing at Cumberland 4 Cinemas in Toronto 
since Jun 2. With that outlook in mind, what do world climate 
experts actually think about the science of his movie? 

Professor Bob Carter of the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James 
Cook University, in Australia gives what, for many Canadians, is a 
surprising assessment: "Gore's circumstantial arguments are so weak 
that they are pathetic. It is simply incredible that they, and his 
film, are commanding public attention." 

But surely Carter is merely part of what most people regard as a 
tiny cadre of "climate change skeptics" who disagree with the "vast 
majority of scientists" Gore cites? 

No; Carter is one of hundreds of highly qualified non-governmental, 
non-industry, non-lobby group climate experts who contest the 
hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are causing 
significant global climate change. "Climate experts" is the 
operative term here. Why? Because what Gore's "majority of 
scientists" think is immaterial when only a very small fraction of 
them actually work in the climate field. 

Even among that fraction, many focus their studies on the impacts of 
climate change; biologists, for example, who study everything from 
insects to polar bears to poison ivy. "While many are highly skilled 
researchers, they generally do not have special knowledge about the 
causes of global climate change," explains former University of 
Winnipeg climatology professor Dr. Tim Ball. "They usually can tell 
us only about the effects of changes in the local environment where 
they conduct their studies." 

This is highly valuable knowledge, but doesn't make them climate 
change cause experts, only climate impact experts. 

So we have a smaller fraction. 

But it becomes smaller still. Among experts who actually examine the 
causes of change on a global scale, many concentrate their research 
on designing and enhancing computer models of hypothetical 
futures. "These models have been consistently wrong in all their 
scenarios," asserts Ball. "Since modelers concede computer outputs 
are not "predictions" but are in fact merely scenarios, they are 
negligent in letting policy-makers and the public think they are 
actually making forecasts." 

We should listen most to scientists who use real data to try to 
understand what nature is actually telling us about the causes and 
extent of global climate change. In this relatively small community, 
there is no consensus, despite what Gore and others would suggest. 

Here is a small sample of the side of the debate we almost never 
hear: 

Appearing before the Commons Committee on Environment and 
Sustainable Development last year, Carleton University 
paleoclimatologist Professor Tim Patterson testified, "There is no 
meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature 
over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over 
ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the 
planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last 
half billion years." Patterson asked the committee, "On the basis of 
this evidence, how could anyone still believe that the recent 
relatively small increase in CO2 levels would be the major cause of 
the past century's modest warming?" 

Patterson concluded his testimony by explaining what his research 
and "hundreds of other studies" reveal: on all time scales, there is 
very good correlation between Earth's temperature and natural 
celestial phenomena such changes in the brightness of the Sun. 

Dr. Boris Winterhalter, former marine researcher at the Geological 
Survey of Finland and professor in marine geology, University of 
Helsinki, takes apart Gore's dramatic display of Antarctic glaciers 
collapsing into the sea. "The breaking glacier wall is a normally 
occurring phenomenon which is due to the normal advance of a 
glacier," says Winterhalter. "In Antarctica the temperature is low 
enough to prohibit melting of the ice front, so if the ice is 
grounded, it has to break off in beautiful ice cascades. If the 
water is deep enough icebergs will form." 

Dr. Wibjörn Karlén, emeritus professor, Dept. of Physical Geography 
and Quaternary Geology, Stockholm University, Sweden, admits, "Some 
small areas in the Antarctic Peninsula have broken up recently, just 
like it has done back in time. The temperature in this part of 
Antarctica has increased recently, probably because of a small 
change in the position of the low pressure systems." 

But Karlén clarifies that the 'mass balance' of Antarctica is 
positive - more snow is accumulating than melting off. As a resul

[FairfieldLife] Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway?

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=15497


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:42 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 4:02 PM, nablus108 wrote: Does it make sense to go against the wishes of the person who gave you the lineage you're supposedly teaching in--and then turn around and invoke that lineage as part of the initiation process? Or is it yours to use after you got it? It would probably be cheaper to go over to SSRS's branch of the same lineage and become a initiator there. And you'd still be doing some real world-service (or at least feel like you were). It was interesting at the MUM Donavan concert a couple of the prospective MUM kids mentioned that they had to learn TM to come there, *but only from a re-certified teacher*, otherwise no dice. It seems like such a scam. Someone "teaching" against the will of the Teacher is doing no good. To himself, nor his/hers students. Thats the real scam here. So what do you think of his response from the press conference? What, the "if they are getting somethign good out of it, we are satisfied" response? What did you expect him to say, "evil. EVIL..? No, but I would've of liked to have been a fly on the wall as he spent HOURS reaming out the recerts who re-upped for TM teacher boot camp: some Maharishi reality TV. There's where the truth came out. These public press conferences are all sanitized for the masses.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Frankenbees?

2006-06-14 Thread Sal Sunshine

Curtis, I think I would put this in the "I didn't delete my post--Rick Archer did" file.

Sal


On Jun 14, 2006, at 4:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:

Thanks.  It is so funny that there was a Bob Brigante at the FLA 
Sidhaland!


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
 wrote:
Bob,

Did we work at the Florida Capital together?  I used to work 
with 
the
bees there and helped sell the pollen.  I have wanted to have 
hives
again ever since.  Varietal honey rocks!  



*

I talked with you once or twice at MIU in the 70s, but I never 
worked in FL.

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> 
> > Good points. This one interested me the most:
> >
> > "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely
> > beyond science."
> >
> > It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I
> > think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the
> > world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply.  You
> > mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at
> > that from what I understand.  But Physics is a field driven by math
> > skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of
> > discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about
> > life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these
> > topics.  Because you have gained something from it, I will spend
> > some more time thinking about it.
> 
> Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where  
> he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he  
> rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest  
> spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for  
> the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by  
> extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum  
> physics is pretty bad mysticism...
> 
> It's on page two:
> 
> http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html
>

And how would he know?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 4:02 PM, nablus108 wrote:
> 
> >> Does it make sense to go against the wishes of the person who gave
> >> you the lineage you're supposedly teaching in--and then turn
> > around
> >> and invoke that lineage as part of the initiation process? Or is
> > it
> >> yours to use after you got it?
> >>
> >> It would probably be cheaper to go over to SSRS's branch of the
> > same
> >> lineage and become a initiator there. And you'd still be doing
> > some
> >> real world-service (or at least feel like you were).
> >>
> >> It was interesting at the MUM Donavan concert a couple of the
> >> prospective MUM kids mentioned that they had to learn TM to come
> >> there, *but only from a re-certified teacher*, otherwise no dice.
> > It
> >> seems like such a scam.
> >
> > Someone "teaching" against the will of the Teacher is doing no good.
> > To himself, nor his/hers students.
> > Thats the real scam here.
> 
> 
> So what do you think of his response from the press conference?
>

What, the "if they are getting somethign good out of it, we are satisfied" 
response?

What did you expect him to say, "evil. EVIL..?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 6/14/06 1:33 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Does it make sense to go against the wishes of the person who gave you the
> > lineage you're supposedly teaching in--and then turn around and invoke that
> > lineage as part of the initiation process? Or is it yours to use after you 
> > got
> > it?
> > 
> Then there¹s the question of what MMY¹s wishes really are, particularly in
> light of the quote which started this thread.
>

I don't see MMY as endorsing the independent TM teachers, but merely not 
condemning 
them...

Of course, in other statements, he's pointed out that it is "HIS Transcendental 
Meditation" not 
theirs, so they should go with what he suggests as far as recertification and 
building peace 
palaces and so on, but feel free to selectively quote in order to make your 
point.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

On Jun 14, 2006, at 5:49 PM, Kirk wrote:a sign of guilt? or dualism of his mind? One would think that since he puts his photo on all his manifest actions he would place it in the Holy Tradition which is the source of his power. State of contemplation of Brahman is bliss and contentment. The sort which keeps a person in their cave for fourty years saying, no no no, I don't care to come out. Ostensibly one stays in their cave until someone demands their service. But one who is running forward after some goals here and there, is still in the duality of their senses and the objects of their senses. Oh, I don't think anyone in the Movement has the balls to question MMY. But if they did he probably would say straight up that he is not liberated. He is still in duality. I am denigrating him any longer. I do admire him. He might be much much more evolved that I will ever be, but he does not have the characteristics of those of the Holy Tradition.Well I think he should get the toll booth attendent to the Holy Trad. position. With an airbrush, it'd be easy to stencil in--standin' there collectin' the tokens to the turnpike to enlightenment. Don't worry dude, this is a Vedic turnpike so there's no pollution and all the money's for world peace, honest...
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars





Why do you think or feel Maharishi is not Shiva 
incarnate?---Moreover Shiva 
ia an ascetic, or naked awareness deva, and has no considerations of relative 
things. One can nap in shit, or live in a castle, it is all the same to 
Shiva.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife





Hi, I 
personally believe that people don't believe he is who he is due to 
brainwashing. Just as TB's want desperately to believe who he is, due to 
brainwashing. Same mirror image process. Thinking he is 'someone' is a false notion. Nobody is 
'someone' as opposed to anybody else. 'Someones' eventually are always 
responsible for all the wars that we fight. It's the noones who one needs to pay 
more attention to. 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars





Why do you think or feel Maharishi is not Shiva 
incarnate?---Shiva has never 
given blessings to take them away.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>

I don't think anyone in the Movement has the balls to question MMY. 
But if they did he probably would say straight up that he is not 
liberated. He is still in duality. 
> 
 I do admire him. He might be much much more evolved that I will 
ever be, but he does not have the characteristics of those of the Holy 
Tradition.

Hi, I personally believe that people don't believe he is who he is due 
to brainwashing. Just as TB's want desperately to believe who he is, 
due to brainwashing. Same mirror image process. 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Wars

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> 
> So if you think this of Maharishi, what say you about Shiva? 
> > 
> 
> I love Shiva. Alway have always will. If there is a power of the 
divine to manifest then it is of Shiva.  Of course if there is a power 
of the divine to manifest it is of Mahakali. Will always have always. 
I love Mahakali.
>
Why do you think or feel Maharishi is not Shiva incarnate?

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where  
> he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he  
> rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest  
> spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for  
> the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing.

How odd.  Here I am, the supposed TM True
Believer, and *I've* been recommending Wilber's
take on quantum mechanics vs. mysticism to Curtis.

 I think by  
> extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum  
> physics is pretty bad mysticism...

I don't think anybody here was suggesting a mysticism
based on quantum physics, rather to the contrary.  But
then perhaps you haven't been reading all the posts,
or not reading the ones you *do* read very carefully.

> 
> It's on page two:
> 
> http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html
>

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife






a 
sign of guilt? or dualism of his mind? One would think that since he puts his 
photo on all his manifest actions he would place it in the Holy Tradition which 
is the source of his power.
 
State of contemplation of Brahman is bliss and contentment. The 
sort which keeps a person in their cave for fourty years saying, no no no, I 
don't care to come out.
 
Ostensibly one stays in their cave until someone demands their 
service. But one who is running forward after some goals here and there, is 
still in the duality of their senses and the objects of their 
senses.
 
Oh, 
I don't think anyone in the Movement has the balls to question MMY. But if they 
did he probably would say straight up that he is not liberated. He is still in 
duality. 
 
I am 
denigrating him any longer. I do admire him. He might be much much more evolved 
that I will ever be, but he does not have the characteristics of those of the 
Holy Tradition.
- Original Message - 
From: Kirk 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to 
FairfieldLife


Interesting point because M. is not in the tradition that is invoked during 
initiation.

Funny, I was also recently thinking about the Lakshmi tantra.
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars






So if you think this of Maharishi, what say you about Shiva? 
> 
 
I love Shiva. Alway have always 
will. If there is a power of the divine to manifest then it is of Shiva.  
Of course if there is a power of the divine to manifest it is of Mahakali. Will 
always have always. I love Mahakali.
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife







Interesting point because M. is not in the tradition that is invoked during 
initiation.

Funny, I was also recently thinking about the Lakshmi tantra.
 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

Thanks a lot.  I'll check it out when I get home tonight.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> 
> > Good points. This one interested me the most:
> >
> > "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely
> > beyond science."
> >
> > It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I
> > think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the
> > world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply.  
You
> > mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at
> > that from what I understand.  But Physics is a field driven by 
math
> > skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of
> > discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about
> > life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on 
these
> > topics.  Because you have gained something from it, I will spend
> > some more time thinking about it.
> 
> Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber 
where  
> he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where 
he  
> rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not 
unmanifest  
> spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting 
for  
> the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by  
> extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum  
> physics is pretty bad mysticism...
> 
> It's on page two:
> 
> http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Frankenbees?

Thanks.  It is so funny that there was a Bob Brigante at the FLA 
Sidhaland!

I just read a great book about bees Robbing the Bees : A Biography 
of Honey--The Sweet Liquid Gold that Seduced the World, that 
included following a beekeeper around for a while.  Such a hard but 
rewarding life!  He worked his ass off, but he loved it.  I would 
like to have a few hives just to be around bees.  Each hive has a 
personality and when you get nice ones you really feel connected to 
nature.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > Bob,
> > 
> > Did we work at the Florida Capital together?  I used to work 
with 
> the
> > bees there and helped sell the pollen.  I have wanted to have 
hives
> > again ever since.  Varietal honey rocks!  
> > 
> > 
> 
> *
> 
> I talked with you once or twice at MIU in the 70s, but I never 
> worked in FL. 
> You might find honey also financially rewarding now, as the price 
is 
> at high levels.
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante  
> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Honeybee's Genome Mapped -- Pesticide Interests 
> > > Immediately Corrupt the Knowledge 
> > > 
> > > By Paul Hendricks 
> > > 
> > > In a move announced recently, geneticists, working without the 
> > > approval of any national beekeeping organization, have stated 
> their 
> > > intentions to use the mapping of the honeybee's genes to 
splice 
> in a 
> > > moth's gene which is resistant to organophosphates, thereby 
> > > rendering the bees pesticide resistant to those chemicals. 
This 
> is 
> > > curious on several levels. Writer Tom Theobald called it an 
> > > extension of splicing resistance to herbicides into plants. As 
> Tom 
> > > Theobald puts it, "What's next, engineering human genes for 
> > > tolerance to pesticides and herbicides?" Can't you imagine 
this 
> next 
> > > comment to fly across the dinner table, "Honey, pass the salt 
> and 
> > > malathion."
> > > 
> > > There are a couple of things in the gene splicing arena of 
which 
> > > beekeepers might approve. For ages farmers have selected for 
> genes 
> > > which promote desired traits such as productivity and disease 
> > > resistance.
> > > 
> > > Using the genome research to make it possible to use more 
> chemicals 
> > > with impunity is a gross misuse of knowledge and is opposed by 
> the 
> > > American Honey Producers Association. The fault lies not with 
> the 
> > > marvelously constructed honeybee but with the greedy and 
> arrogant 
> > > chemical companies who would back this ludicrous research. 
> > > Beekeepers and their wannabees believe genome research could 
> more 
> > > properly be used to move toward a more natural state of bee-
ing 
> and 
> > > away from, not closer to, Frankenbees.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Paul Hendricks 303-789-3209
> > > 
> > > Chester Ferguson, WA State Professional Beekeeper President 
509-
> 452-
> > > 5772
> > >
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

Judy:"I don't have a copy of the Wilber book to hand, but
the point he makes is that quantum physics made the
limits of science more clear than they ever had been
before. Essentially quantum mechanics demonstrates
that science cannot tell us anything *directly* about
reality; it's all shadows on the wall. We didn't
know that prior to quantum mechanics. And the people
to whom this is *clearest* are quantum physicists,
which is why so many of them have been prodded to
explore other ways of knowing, such as mysticism.

The physicists know better than the ordinary person
what can and cannot be said regarding the relationship
of physics to mysticism and why. So if one of 'em has
a speculation along those lines, we might do well to
take it more seriously than one that comes from
somebody like Chopra."

Me: You are probably right here.  I still think that applying the 
conclusions about the mathematical predictions of quantum mechanics 
to our world of sensory perception is a mistake.  But thinking about 
stuff on that level so long probably does give them a more advanced 
handle than most people.  Life itself is humbling on so many 
levels.  Just the studies on what our senses pick up knock me out.  
We are cutting thorough such a tiny slice of reality with our 
perceptions.  That is why listening to how you are thinking about 
these things is useful.  I could never sustain the abstract level of 
thinking of a world-class physicist, so I should not be too quick to 
compare him to Chopra.  

Me:> I still think he is mixing up levels here.  That is what is 
causing 
> > the paradox.
> 
>Judy: Well, it's certainly different levels of knowing.
> Are you willing to accept that you're nothing but
> a mechanism?  If not, you have a problem.  I don't
> know how you can even think about the problem
> without considering both levels.  What's your
Ø   single-level solution to it?

Me: I think I understand what it means to be just a mechanism.  It 
is entirely possible. But what is unique for each person is the 
organization of that mechanism and its experiences.  That is the 
beauty of life for me.  Not exactly mystical, but perhaps taking the 
place of mysticism in my life.  I am ready to accept that my 
consciousness is an emergent quality of the functioning of my brain, 
and that when it stops functioning I will just cease to exist 
forever.  I am not asking the same questions of life that he is.  I 
don't feel that the two aspects he described need a single-level 
solution.  That was his idea.  But I am going to have to think about 
it more.  It wouldn't surprise me that I am missing something 
important in his words so I will give it another try.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> > Good points. This one interested me the most:
> > 
> > "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely
> > beyond science."
> > 
> > It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I 
> > think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the 
> > world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply.  
You 
> > mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at 
> > that from what I understand.  But Physics is a field driven by 
math 
> > skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of 
> > discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about 
> > life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on 
these 
> > topics.
> 
> I don't have a copy of the Wilber book to hand, but
> the point he makes is that quantum physics made the
> limits of science more clear than they ever had been
> before.  Essentially quantum mechanics demonstrates
> that science cannot tell us anything *directly* about
> reality; it's all shadows on the wall.  We didn't
> know that prior to quantum mechanics.  And the people
> to whom this is *clearest* are quantum physicists,
> which is why so many of them have been prodded to
> explore other ways of knowing, such as mysticism.
> 
> The physicists know better than the ordinary person
> what can and cannot be said regarding the relationship
> of physics to mysticism and why.  So if one of 'em has
> a speculation along those lines, we might do well to
> take it more seriously than one that comes from
> somebody like Chopra.
> 
>   Because you have gained something from it, I will spend 
> > some more time thinking about it.  
> > 
> >  Then he asks how can it even be statistico-deterministic
> > > when we have such a clear experience of exercising our
> > > free will?  Why is the scientific fact incompatible
> > > with our most basic sense of ourselves?
> > 
> > I still think he is mixing up levels here.  That is what is 
causing 
> > the paradox.
> 
> Well, it's certainly different levels of knowing.
> Are you willing to accept that you're nothing but
> a mechanism?  If not, you have a problem.  I do

[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

2006-06-14 Thread bob_brigante

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 6/14/06 1:33 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Does it make sense to go against the wishes of the person who 
gave you the
> > lineage you're supposedly teaching in--and then turn around and 
invoke that
> > lineage as part of the initiation process? Or is it yours to use 
after you got
> > it?
> > 

> Then there¹s the question of what MMY¹s wishes really are, 
particularly in
> light of the quote which started this thread.
>

I think it's clear that by raising the price of instruction, MMY 
wants the rate of initiations to be low (to avoid creating "fear and 
havoc" on an ignorant planet: 
http://geocities.com/bbrigante/retards.html#light ). 

TM teachers who go off on their own, lacking the resources of the 
TMO, could not possibly teach enough people to derail this strategy 
of slow growth of consciousness on the earth, so MMY said that he 
did not mind if TM teachers went off on their own, teaching TM under 
some other name. The TMO is not suing TM teachers who are off on 
their own, as long as they do not infringe on the TM trademark 
(several TM teachers are now teaching what they are calling 
the "Transcendental Stress Management Program").

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Frankenbees?

2006-06-14 Thread bob_brigante

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Bob,
> 
> Did we work at the Florida Capital together?  I used to work with 
the
> bees there and helped sell the pollen.  I have wanted to have hives
> again ever since.  Varietal honey rocks!  
> 
> 

*

I talked with you once or twice at MIU in the 70s, but I never 
worked in FL. 
You might find honey also financially rewarding now, as the price is 
at high levels.



> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante  
wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Honeybee's Genome Mapped -- Pesticide Interests 
> > Immediately Corrupt the Knowledge 
> > 
> > By Paul Hendricks 
> > 
> > In a move announced recently, geneticists, working without the 
> > approval of any national beekeeping organization, have stated 
their 
> > intentions to use the mapping of the honeybee's genes to splice 
in a 
> > moth's gene which is resistant to organophosphates, thereby 
> > rendering the bees pesticide resistant to those chemicals. This 
is 
> > curious on several levels. Writer Tom Theobald called it an 
> > extension of splicing resistance to herbicides into plants. As 
Tom 
> > Theobald puts it, "What's next, engineering human genes for 
> > tolerance to pesticides and herbicides?" Can't you imagine this 
next 
> > comment to fly across the dinner table, "Honey, pass the salt 
and 
> > malathion."
> > 
> > There are a couple of things in the gene splicing arena of which 
> > beekeepers might approve. For ages farmers have selected for 
genes 
> > which promote desired traits such as productivity and disease 
> > resistance.
> > 
> > Using the genome research to make it possible to use more 
chemicals 
> > with impunity is a gross misuse of knowledge and is opposed by 
the 
> > American Honey Producers Association. The fault lies not with 
the 
> > marvelously constructed honeybee but with the greedy and 
arrogant 
> > chemical companies who would back this ludicrous research. 
> > Beekeepers and their wannabees believe genome research could 
more 
> > properly be used to move toward a more natural state of bee-ing 
and 
> > away from, not closer to, Frankenbees.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Paul Hendricks 303-789-3209
> > 
> > Chester Ferguson, WA State Professional Beekeeper President 509-
452-
> > 5772
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

Unc:
> > The kung-fu of denial is FAR more powerful than the
> > kung-fu of science. :-)

Curtis:
> Nice one! Agreed.

In my experience, it's more than a snappy one-liner.
There is real truth in it. The power of denial is
fuckin' AWESOME, man. :-) The ability of self to
perpetuate its own illusions and preconceptions
in order to perpetuate self never ceases to amaze me.

And it's as true for science as it is for anything
in the spiritual realm. Just look at how the 
Bushies pervert science and force scientists 
to rewrite their findings to support their agenda.
Look at Shemp, and his enduing ability to not
believe that global warming is an issue.

It's the same in the spiritual realm. The ability
of people to hold onto their preconceptions, 
*despite their own perceptions to the contrary*
is nothing short of amazing. 

> > Technically, it's a navel chakra thang. It's like someone
> > punching you in the stomach, not a one-time punch but a
> > continual pressure on that area of the body. It can be
> > disconcerting until you get used to it.
>   
> Very Don Juan, or even more Don Genero!  Remember how 
> he used to terrify "Carlitos" when he would take a dump 
> and make the earth shake!

Very similar, but different. The energy I spoke of
above, the "navel-chakra hit," was just one of many.
Each of the siddhis I witnessed had its own energy
field, and its own set of effects on the body and
mind of anyone sitting in close proximity to the
siddhi being performed. And each energy field was
different, related in some way to the siddhi being
performed.

And an important distinction that I have to make
is that each of the energy fields that I subject-
ively felt as a result of witnessing siddhis was
*completely different* from the energy field I
associate with enlightenment. The latter was just
pure silence, infinity, eternity, without attributes
of any type, sheer expansiveness, Self incarnate.
The energy field associating the siddhis was 
something different. Not necessarily better 
(although I personally alway preferred the enery
field of enlightenment to the energy field of the
siddhis), but *definitely* different.

It was as if the energy field or aura surrounding
the siddhis was very much relative, although 
"finer relative," whereas the energy field I
associate with a clean, pure meditation was
not relative in any way. Hard to put into words.

Also, of course, there was no "reaction," either
in mind or body, to the energy field of enlight-
enment or samadhi. There was never any tendency 
to disbelieve it or "make it go away," whereas 
there generally was with experiencing the energy 
field of the siddhis. 








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:Good points. This one interested me the most: "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science." It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism...It's on page two:http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife



On Jun 14, 2006, at 4:02 PM, nablus108 wrote:Does it make sense to go against the wishes of the person who gave   you the lineage you're supposedly teaching in--and then turn  around   and invoke that lineage as part of the initiation process? Or is  it   yours to use after you got it?  It would probably be cheaper to go over to SSRS's branch of the  same   lineage and become a initiator there. And you'd still be doing  some   real world-service (or at least feel like you were).  It was interesting at the MUM Donavan concert a couple of the   prospective MUM kids mentioned that they had to learn TM to come   there, *but only from a re-certified teacher*, otherwise no dice.  It   seems like such a scam.  Someone "teaching" against the will of the Teacher is doing no good.  To himself, nor his/hers students.  Thats the real scam here. So what do you think of his response from the press conference?
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Wars

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
>  And do you
> > know everything there is to know about MMY?
> 
> Maharishi is an enigma to me. After sitting at His feet for 40 
years, 
> of these many years litterrally, I still have only vague ideas about 
> who He really is.

...but of one thing you can agree on, "He Really IS". heh heh heh

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Wars

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> He can't openly have sex for fear it will destroy his popular 
image, he does not have the open recognition of his peers, his 
megalomaniacal disposition speaks volumns about his state of mind, 
and then he rants showing discontent, and then recants showing his 
great compassion, all thus showing much inner conflict. We can only 
judge him based on his tendencies, not based on our own experience. 
He is exiled from his beloved Bharat. That alone is enough to prove 
that he simply cannot be a happy man in spite of his millions. And 
the very worst thing is that he has no companion who is not a 
servant. That alone is a horrible thing. What sort of communion can 
he have? Finally he has destroyed his own institution and people are 
making of him a fool. You know that must just kill him.   This is 
all conjecture or inference. I don't know a thing.

So if you think this of Maharishi, what say you about Shiva? 
> 
> My main point is that for all his alleged liberation he is still 
bound hand and foot. More bound than a poor hobo.
> 
well, it does sound as if 






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[FairfieldLife] Petit Paris in quirky Fairfield

2006-06-14 Thread bob_brigante

http://tinyurl.com/elhwd





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars






The enigma part is okay to my mind, 
but the blazing light of Brahman part seems as if it's a conditioned response. 
It may be true, or it may not be. If he is a blazing light of brahman then one 
would never be able to tell, because Brahman has no observable characteristics. 
In point of fact, a person in Brahman will not show any specific qualities that 
one can even identify, or they are merely an ordinary person, and if they are 
manifesting things that can be conceptualized which seem amazing then they are 
merely a common person with some sidhis.
 
If a teacher seems to makee one 
think all kinds of whacky things and always concept after concept, then they are 
emphatically not a teacher of Brahman. A teacher of Brahman is a very boring 
individual who one needs sticks in their eyes to stay awake near. because they 
are telling one nothing new, they are saying nothing which needs to be 
said.
 
 
 
- Original Message - 
From: nablus108 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:16 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars
And do you> know everything there is to know about 
MMY?Maharishi is an enigma to me. After sitting at His feet for 40 
years, of these many years litterrally, I still have only vague ideas about 
who He really is. What I do know, is that He is a "Blazing 
light of Brahman" Yahoo! 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

On Jun 14, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Kirk wrote: - Original Message -From: nablus108To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.comSent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 2:45 PMSubject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLifeOnly learning from a rectified will continue the lineage. Teaching outside of Maharishis blessing will obviously result in the withdrawing of the same. Maharishi can withdraw blessings obviously, but he cannot undo Kundalini Shakti, nor can he undo anything which has been done in the name of the Holy Tradition because previous teachers taught from the lineage of the whole tradition not just from Maharishi. If such wasn't his wish then he would have just had a picture of himself on people's altars. Moreover, since his teachings are directly derived from the Shakta lineage of Sri Vidya and specifically from the Lakshmi Tantra, therefore even he has to answer to that higher intelligence. She may, or may not side with him at this late date.Interesting point because M. is not in the tradition that is invoked during initiation.Funny, I was also recently thinking about the Lakshmi tantra.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Good points. This one interested me the most:
> 
> "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely
> beyond science."
> 
> It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I 
> think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the 
> world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply.  You 
> mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at 
> that from what I understand.  But Physics is a field driven by math 
> skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of 
> discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about 
> life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these 
> topics.

I don't have a copy of the Wilber book to hand, but
the point he makes is that quantum physics made the
limits of science more clear than they ever had been
before.  Essentially quantum mechanics demonstrates
that science cannot tell us anything *directly* about
reality; it's all shadows on the wall.  We didn't
know that prior to quantum mechanics.  And the people
to whom this is *clearest* are quantum physicists,
which is why so many of them have been prodded to
explore other ways of knowing, such as mysticism.

The physicists know better than the ordinary person
what can and cannot be said regarding the relationship
of physics to mysticism and why.  So if one of 'em has
a speculation along those lines, we might do well to
take it more seriously than one that comes from
somebody like Chopra.

  Because you have gained something from it, I will spend 
> some more time thinking about it.  
> 
>  Then he asks how can it even be statistico-deterministic
> > when we have such a clear experience of exercising our
> > free will?  Why is the scientific fact incompatible
> > with our most basic sense of ourselves?
> 
> I still think he is mixing up levels here.  That is what is causing 
> the paradox.

Well, it's certainly different levels of knowing.
Are you willing to accept that you're nothing but
a mechanism?  If not, you have a problem.  I don't
know how you can even think about the problem
without considering both levels.  What's your
single-level solution to it?

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars





on 6/14/06 3:16 PM, nablus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 And do you
> know everything there is to know about MMY?

Maharishi is an enigma to me. After sitting at His feet for 40 years, 
of these many years litterrally, I still have only vague ideas about 
who He really is.
 
What I do know, is that He is a "Blazing light of Brahman"

I agree with that, and have similar experience with him. We probably know each other. But on a relative level, there’s some screwy shit about him that takes some doing to come to terms with. I guess we can classify that under “the paradox of Brahman.”

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

- Original Message - 
From: nablus108 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 2:45 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to 
FairfieldLife
Only learning from a rectified will continue the lineage. Teaching 
outside of Maharishis blessing will obviously result in the withdrawing 
of the same.

Maharishi can withdraw blessings 
obviously, but he cannot undo Kundalini Shakti, nor can he undo anything which 
has been done in the name of the Holy Tradition because previous teachers taught 
from the lineage of the whole tradition not just from Maharishi. If such wasn't 
his wish then he would have just had a picture of himself on people's altars. 
Moreover, since his teachings are directly derived from the Shakta lineage of 
Sri Vidya and specifically from the Lakshmi Tantra, therefore even he has 
to answer to that higher intelligence. She may, or may not side with him at this 
late date. 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 1:43 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"   
> > wrote:
> >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
> >> wrote:
> >> she was so threatened by the
> >>
> >>> fact that she was seeing these things and that
> >>> they *weren't* being done by *her* teacher
> >>> (Maharishi) that she just blotted them out
> >>> and refused to ever deal with the experience.
> >>> I have heard that in the months that followed
> >>> she denied ever having seen Rama, which possibly
> >>> ties into this whole denial thang, but also could
> >>> just have been fear (at that time and place) of
> >>> being thrown out of the TMO for having seen
> >>> another teacher.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, my point is that people who claim that
> >>> they want to see the siddhis may have a surprise
> >>> or two in store for them when they do. They may
> >>> find out a great deal about what they *really*
> >>> want.  :-)
> >>>
> >>
> >> Alternatively, fulfillment of the Sidhis can be just as 
> >> unsettling
> >> to one's concepts. Either way I agree-- very much a case of 'be
> >> careful what you wish for'...
> >>
> >
> > It was just a fascinating evening for me, watching
> > her avoiding her own perceptions. I did not tell
> > her before the talk that Rama could do siddhis, or
> > to watch for them, and he never announced that he
> > was about to do them, even to the point of saying
> > "Watch this." That night, a small gathering of about
> > 50 students and their guests, he just did them ex
> > tempore, slipping them in *while* giving a talk on
> > something or another. And because of her mumbling
> > thing, there was no question that she was seeing
> > them at the time, but then for whatever reason she
> > decided to "not have seen them," and that decision
> > was more powerful than her own perceptions. Go
> > figure.
> 
> Unless of course she was pissed because she realized he was using  
> some form of suggestion...

Believe whatever you want. Above I have honestly
related the context of the evening. There was no
suggestion, either from my side or his. 

My purpose in relating these stories is to tell
it the way it was, for me. I have no interest in
convincing you (or anyone else here) of anything,
or selling you anything. The man's daid, dude.
He ain't selling anything either. None of his
students, to my knowledge, could ever do what
he did. Even though some of them are still teach-
ing in his name, I do not refer anyone to them,
or even to myself. The reason I tell these stories
occasionally here is that people here have a 
fascination with the siddhis, which is understand-
able, because so many of them paid so much money
to see or experience them. At the same time, very
few here seem to ever have seen them. I have.

You can choose to believe me or not. I DON'T CARE.
I'm just trying to do justice to my own experience,
and to relating things just as they happened. I
make no claims for Rama's enlightenment, or for
my own. I just relate experiences.

Deal with them as you will. Your reaction is not
my concern. Telling the story accurately is.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > It does interest me that Yogananda's book is a
> > > fantastic example of how spiritual people use the appearance of
> > > science when it suits them.  The New Testament does the same thing. 
> > > It appears to follow scientific standards and gives the
impression of
> > > a method, but it does not conform to the proper procedures.  It is a
> > > great "proof" for people who do not understand or value a more
> > > reliable application of the method.
> > 
> > Just for the record, the scientific method didn't exist
> > in biblical times.  They weren't trying to even appear
> > to follow "scientific standards" because they hadn't
> > been established yet and wouldn't be for many centuries.
> > They were using the standards of their culture.
> > 
> > It's one thing to point out that they used different
> > standards that don't conform to modern ones; it's
> > quite another to suggest that they were trying to
> > make people think they were conforming to standards
> > that nobody knew anything about, including the folks
> > who wrote the Bible.
> >
> 
> 
> Good point, I am glad you got back to it.  The scientific method
> evolved as a result from human's figuring out methods of procedures to
> minimize errors.  The author's of the bible, and the people who chose
> which authors to include in the bible, were using and ,I claim
> manipulating, the standards of credibility of their era.  So Jesus
> healing the sick gets in, but making a bird out of clay as a young boy
> and it flying away did not.  Are you saying that they had no concept
> of being credible back then?

Well, no, of course I'm not saying that.  They had
different *standards* for credibility.

  I don't think they even clear the bar of
> their own day's standards.  The sensory based evidence is
> contradictory in the different gospels.  Even back then they
> understood that problem didn't they?

Not in the same way we do.  As far as paranormal-
type abilities were concerned, it wasn't so much a
question of whether they existed, but of who had
them, and where he or she got them from (God or
demons).

The Gospel stories were passed along orally for
decades before they were ever written down, and of
course they'd get embellished, and different people
would recall, or invent, different bits that they
particularly liked when they were doing the telling
(and not just with regard to the miracle stories).

The Gospels are therefore a record of what people
were saying about Jesus at the time they were put
on paper; and the miracle stories were more a way
of saying that he had extraordinary abilities that
came from God, rather than that he did A, B, and C.
And even this was simply a way of giving more
authority to his teaching about salvation, which
was the main point.

So the contradictions didn't bother anybody.

That said, there was also a great deal of
redaction, including after the Gospels were
written down, but those changes were more for
political purposes--for the Roman rulers in
particular.  They weren't an attempt to
manipulate folks into thinking he did miracles
when he didn't (even if he didn't!).  That just
wasn't the point.

We get fixated on the miracle stories exactly
because in this scientific age, we tend not to
believe in miracles.  Back then, there was a
lot less resistance, so the miracle stories
weren't nearly as big a deal (except for the
Resurrection story, of course).

> But your point is well taken.  We have learned a lot since then about
> standards of credibility and that standard should not be applied. 
> Have you seen the book Misquoting Jesus : The Story Behind Who Changed
> the Bible and Why?
> 
> It lays out a pretty compelling case for my claim.

I haven't read that one specifically, but I've read
quite a bit about the various changes that were
made and why.  I'll see if I can get ahold of the
one you cite, thanks.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Wars

 And do you
> know everything there is to know about MMY?

Maharishi is an enigma to me. After sitting at His feet for 40 years, 
of these many years litterrally, I still have only vague ideas about 
who He really is.
 
What I do know, is that He is a "Blazing light of Brahman"







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars





 
 
- Original Message - 
From: Rick Archer 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars
on 6/14/06 1:52 PM, nablus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
This fellow knows absolutely nothing about himself, 
  why presume he knows anything about a saint 
?
How 
are you in a position to know what he knows about himself? And do you know 
everything there is to know about MMY?  
I was quite thankful to be let off 
the hook like that. Please don't make me be responsible now.
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 2:23 PM, nablus108 wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> 
>  Wow, Rick, thats interesting. I would love to teach TM at
> 
> > a reasonable
> >
>  price once in a while. I know someone who does this.
> 
> 
> >> There are several who are quite successful at it.
> >>
> 
>  I've been tempted
>  but I always think back the fact that I signed a legal
> 
> > covenant
> >
>  promising not to when I was on TTC. How do you or others
> 
> > view the
> >
>  ethics of this?
> 
> >
> > Probably all the non-rectified teachers have thought through this,
> > including myself. What Maharishi has done is abviously difficult 
to
> > digest, but does makes sense on many different levels.
> > For me it would be a great mistake to use the knowledge I received
> > from Maharishi for my personal gain. And yes, I do hear all the
> > arguments about learning people something good, trying to achieve 
1%,
> > following the instructions they received directly from Maharishi
> > etcetc. But in my opinion; if someone uses Maharishis knowledge
> > against his wish, he/she is doing so out of some kind of greed;
> > moneywise perhaps or ego or whatever.
> > And this has been demonstrated again and again by the
> > socalled "independent" teachers that have posted on this forum; 
they
> > are basically interested in, promoting themselves, not much 
altruism
> > there, IMO.
> 
> Does it make sense to go against the wishes of the person who gave  
> you the lineage you're supposedly teaching in--and then turn 
around  
> and invoke that lineage as part of the initiation process? Or is 
it  
> yours to use after you got it?
> 
> It would probably be cheaper to go over to SSRS's branch of the 
same  
> lineage and become a initiator there. And you'd still be doing 
some  
> real world-service (or at least feel like you were).
> 
> It was interesting at the MUM Donavan concert a couple of the  
> prospective MUM kids mentioned that they had to learn TM to come  
> there, *but only from a re-certified teacher*, otherwise no dice. 
It  
> seems like such a scam.

Someone "teaching" against the will of the Teacher is doing no good. 
To himself, nor his/hers students. 
Thats the real scam here.
>






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars






He can't openly have sex for fear it 
will destroy his popular image, he does not have the open recognition of his 
peers, his megalomaniacal disposition speaks volumns about his state of mind, 
and then he rants showing discontent, and then recants showing his great 
compassion, all thus showing much inner conflict. We can only judge him based on 
his tendencies, not based on our own experience. He is exiled from his beloved 
Bharat. That alone is enough to prove that he simply cannot be a happy man in 
spite of his millions. And the very worst thing is that he has no companion who 
is not a servant. That alone is a horrible thing. What sort of communion can he 
have? Finally he has destroyed his own institution and people are making of him 
a fool. You know that must just kill him.   This is all 
conjecture or inference. I don't know a thing.
 
My main point is that for all his 
alleged liberation he is still bound hand and foot. More bound than a poor 
hobo.
 
 
 
 
- Original Message - 
From: jim_flanegin 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 12:27 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
"Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>> > > 
Next comes the full integration, the living of the knowledge. In the > 
case of Self realization, if it is being lived as an integrated > 
component of one's life, it has huge practical benefits. Sounds like > 
the person who you refer to is not living 200% of life.  > > 
> Maharishi lives 1,000,000% of life and yet, he is still living a 
fucked up life.>now that's a bold statement. Can you back it 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 2:23 PM, nablus108 wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> 
>  Wow, Rick, thats interesting. I would love to teach TM at
> 
> > a reasonable
> >
>  price once in a while. I know someone who does this.
> 
> 
> >> There are several who are quite successful at it.
> >>
> 
>  I've been tempted
>  but I always think back the fact that I signed a legal
> 
> > covenant
> >
>  promising not to when I was on TTC. How do you or others
> 
> > view the
> >
>  ethics of this?
> 
> >
> > Probably all the non-rectified teachers have thought through this,
> > including myself. What Maharishi has done is abviously difficult 
to
> > digest, but does makes sense on many different levels.
> > For me it would be a great mistake to use the knowledge I received
> > from Maharishi for my personal gain. And yes, I do hear all the
> > arguments about learning people something good, trying to achieve 
1%,
> > following the instructions they received directly from Maharishi
> > etcetc. But in my opinion; if someone uses Maharishis knowledge
> > against his wish, he/she is doing so out of some kind of greed;
> > moneywise perhaps or ego or whatever.
> > And this has been demonstrated again and again by the
> > socalled "independent" teachers that have posted on this forum; 
they
> > are basically interested in, promoting themselves, not much 
altruism
> > there, IMO.
> 
> Does it make sense to go against the wishes of the person who gave  
> you the lineage you're supposedly teaching in--and then turn 
around  
> and invoke that lineage as part of the initiation process? Or is 
it  
> yours to use after you got it?
> 
> It would probably be cheaper to go over to SSRS's branch of the 
same  
> lineage and become a initiator there. And you'd still be doing 
some  
> real world-service (or at least feel like you were).
> 
> It was interesting at the MUM Donavan concert a couple of the  
> prospective MUM kids mentioned that they had to learn TM to come  
> there, *but only from a re-certified teacher*, otherwise no dice. 
It  
> seems like such a scam.

Only learning from a rectified will continue the lineage. Teaching 
outside of Maharishis blessing will obviously result in the 
withdrawing of the same.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

The kung-fu of denial is FAR more powerful than the
kung-fu of science. :-)


Nice one! Agreed.

Technically, it's a navel chakra thang. It's like someone
> punching you in the stomach, not a one-time punch but a
> continual pressure on that area of the body. It can be
> disconcerting until you get used to it.
  

Very Don Juan, or even more Don Genero!  Remember how he used to 
terrify "Carlitos" when he would take a dump and make the earth 
shake!






--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> > > "If your mind is doing the doubt thing, it's going to do the
> > > doubt thing no matter who the supposed "expert" is."
> > 
> > I don't think I am as skeptical as you are about the use of 
proper
> > tests in science.  
> 
> I've just seen it so often for so long, man. People 
> have the ability to deny the "findings of science,"
> just as they have the ability to deny the things 
> they see and taste and feel right in front of them.
> The kung-fu of denial is FAR more powerful than the
> kung-fu of science.  :-)
> 
> > The whole history of science as advanced on our
> > ability to have confidence in procedures and make predictions to 
> > test
> > further and to develop theories. The mindset of doubt is not the
> > critical thing in science. Doubt or belief should not matter if 
the
> > procedures are followed.  Of course humans being humans we mess 
this
> > up a lot and so it takes some time to separate the BS from what 
> > seems
> > conclusive for now.  Until the next test!
> > 
> > I can appreciate your description of how our body reacts to 
seeing
> > someone levitate!  "I believe I wet my drawers!" would probably 
be 
> > mine!
> 
> Technically, it's a navel chakra thang. It's like someone
> punching you in the stomach, not a one-time punch but a
> continual pressure on that area of the body. It can be
> disconcerting until you get used to it.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

Good points. This one interested me the most:

"rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely
beyond science."

It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I 
think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the 
world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply.  You 
mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at 
that from what I understand.  But Physics is a field driven by math 
skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of 
discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about 
life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these 
topics.  Because you have gained something from it, I will spend 
some more time thinking about it.  

 Then he asks how can it even be statistico-deterministic
> when we have such a clear experience of exercising our
> free will?  Why is the scientific fact incompatible
> with our most basic sense of ourselves?

I still think he is mixing up levels here.  That is what is causing 
the paradox.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> > Damn Judy, I am only working on one cup of coffee here!  Let me 
see if
> > I can make an intelligible response!
> > 
> > > Coming back to this, because I think it's an
> > > important point: If Unity consciousness is as
> > > MMY defines it, and if he's in Unity consciousness,
> > > it isn't *up* to MMY, independently of nature,
> > > whether to perform siddhis.  It's nature's call.
> > > 
> > > So it wouldn't really be a falsifiable standard
> > > after all.
> > 
> > I think he has already thrown his hat in to the ring of 
demonstrating
> > student's flying for marketing purposes. So it seems like nature 
has
> > spoken on this and just hasn't delivered the goods.  He has used 
the
> > impression of science for his marketing and even revealed his 
strategy
> > in his "Science of Being".  So it seems like it is too late for 
him to
> > claim that nature just doesn't want him to blow people away and 
gain
> > millions of followers by demonstrating something amazing.
> 
> As far as I'm aware, he hasn't made that claim.  I
> was extrapolating from several strands of his teaching.
>  
> > Maybe it was never meant as a falsifiable standard even though 
it was
> > presented that way.  I may have been giving MMY too much credit 
for
> > being sincere about his interest in proofs and testing.
> 
> My guess is that he believed siddhis would happen in
> fairly short order.  I don't know what, if anything,
> he's said about them now that it's evident this was
> an overly optimistic expectation, so I don't know how
> he has rationalized it.
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Erwin Schroedinger's quote is interesting.  If my single cup of 
coffee
> > brain can wrap around this multiple cups of coffee question...
> > 
> > I don't buy his conclusion.  He seems to be jumping levels of
> > existence unnecessarily.  He starts with theory, determinism, 
goes to
> > personal experience, free will, and then lapses into poetry.
> 
> Well, it's not really determinism in the philosophical
> sense.  He explicitly qualifies it as "statistico-
> deterministic," by which he's presumably referring to
> quantum mechanics--the observations and the math, not
> just theory.
> 
> Then he asks how can it even be statistico-deterministic
> when we have such a clear experience of exercising our
> free will?  Why is the scientific fact incompatible
> with our most basic sense of ourselves?
> 
> > I don't think his conclusion is logical at all
> 
> It isn't, it's paradoxical.  It's the Advaita paradox.
> 
> , it is just put
> > together out of his imagination.
> 
> He does identify it as an "inference."
> 
>   It sounds beautiful, but it is not
> > how I think of it.  When he is doing science he may be the man, 
but in
> > his forays into philosophy he just sounds like an old-school 
Chopra. 
> 
> Ah, Curtis, come on.  Chopra's not a physicist.
> Schroedinger is referencing Advaita.  He isn't the
> only modern physicist who got into mysticism by any
> means.  I should recommend another Wilber book to
> you, called "Quantum Questions: The Mystical Writings
> of the World's Great Physicists."  It's a collection
> Wilber edited, and his introduction is a crystal-clear
> explanation of how modern physics can lead one to
> mysticism--but *not* in the "Tao of Physics" style at
> all, rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely
> beyond science.
>  
> > We psychologically experience our free will acting as well as the
> > determined parts of our habits and the effects of past actions 
and
> > experiences coming into play and interacting with our will.  
Trying to
> > drop a bad habit puts this in our face clearly.
> 
> Sure, but this doesn't contradict Shroedinger.
> 
>   As far as deciding if
> > the universe has some designs on our personal actions
> 
> That would be the S

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife



On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Rick Archer wrote:on 6/14/06 1:33 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Does it make sense to go against the wishes of the person who gave you the lineage you're supposedly teaching in--and then turn around and invoke that lineage as part of the initiation process? Or is it yours to use after you got it?Then there’s the question of what MMY’s wishes really are, particularly in light of the quote which started this thread. It is interesting and has been mentioned numerous times before (actually I think it was Bob Brigante who first pointed it out some time ago).Of course there are also the reports of people at the recertification course who paid all that money and got reamed out by M. for hours via satellite, so he can't be too happy with what was happening. I'm not clear however on just what it was he was so upset about.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife





on 6/14/06 1:33 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Does it make sense to go against the wishes of the person who gave you the lineage you're supposedly teaching in--and then turn around and invoke that lineage as part of the initiation process? Or is it yours to use after you got it?

Then there’s the question of what MMY’s wishes really are, particularly in light of the quote which started this thread.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars





on 6/14/06 1:52 PM, nablus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

This fellow knows absolutely nothing about himself, why presume he 
knows anything about a saint ?

How are you in a position to know what he knows about himself? And do you know everything there is to know about MMY?

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Ann Coulter/Murders w/Words(her words)'

2006-06-14 Thread Bhairitu

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
>In a message dated 6/13/06 8:39:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>So  Michael Moore is vata? He looks kapha to me. Coulter certainly 
>isn't  kapha. Sorry it doesn't work. Try again.
>
>If you're not progressive then  you must be regressive.
>
>
>
>
>I'm not speaking of their individual body types and I think  you know what I 
>mean.
>
>  
>
I find liberals more grounded than conservatives who have earned the 
titled "flying monkey right" for being so goofy.

Liberals are just further on in their evolution than conservatives.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Ann Coulter/Murders w/Words(her words)'

2006-06-14 Thread Bhairitu

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
>In a message dated 6/12/06 5:05:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> 
> 
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])   wrote:
>
>  
>
>>In a message dated 6/12/06 3:22:08 P.M. Central  Daylight Time, 
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])   writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>--- In  [EMAIL PROTECTED] In  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>>
>>
>(mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com) )  
>  
>
>>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], MDi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>In a message  dated 6/12/06 11:33:43 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]@.
>>>
>>>A friend dropped  in to the chat room on Anorexic Ann's website. 
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>By the 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>time he left they were  ready to kill him. :)
>>>Great sport:
>>>___http://www.anncoulthttp://www.http://www.http://w_ 
>>>  
>>>
>(http://www.anncoulthttp://www.http://www.http://_)   
>  
>
>>>  
>>>
>>(_http://www.anncoulthttp://www.http://www.http://_ 
>>
>>
>(http://www.anncoulthttp://www.http://www.annhtt_) )  
>  
>
>>
>>
>>>(__http://www.anncoulthttp://www.http://www.http://_ 
>>>  
>>>
>(http://www.anncoulthttp://www.http://www.annhtt_)   
>  
>
>>>  
>>>
>>(_http://www.anncoulthttp://www.http://www.annhtt_ 
>>
>>
>(http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi) )  ) 
>  
>
>>
>>
>>>You can drop into just  about any Chat room for the left,and 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>express  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>conservative views and get the exact same  reaction. I think before 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>one attacks Ann  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Coulter as being hate filled, while being silent  about someone 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>like Al Frankin, 
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>>Michael Moore, Alec Baldwin and others who have all called  for 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>the stoning , 
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>>lynching or execution of conservatives is being  hypocritical.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>I've read Al  Franken's book on "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell 
>>Them: A Fair and  Balanced Look at the Right" (excellent by the way, 
>>if for nothing  else, its rigorous adherence to factual material, and 
>>the painstaking  way that Franken exposes creeps like Rush Limbaugh), 
>>and have heard  Michael Moore and Alec Baldwin from time to time on 
>>the news. Each of  them has said something off the wall occasionally, 
>>though I've not  witnessed it personally.
>>
>>On the other hand, Ms. Attention Hog,  Ann Coulter, spews invective 
>>*every single time* I have seen her on  the news. She is in my 
>>estimation a real wacko, pathetically craving  the spotlight even at 
>>the cost of her own self  respect.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I think if your sense  of perspective is that Al Franken and Michael Moore 
>>are reasonable and  factual then you have no other choice but to believe 
>>
>>
>what 
>  
>
>>you believe.  It's kind of like when Matt Lauer interviewed Al Franken on 
>>
>>
>the 
>  
>
>>Today  Show and Franken said Bush and Rove should be shot, Matt Lauer 
>>
>>
>laughed  
>  
>
>>and then when he interviews Coulter and asks about her saying the  Jersey 
>>
>>
>girls 
>  
>
>>seemed to be enjoying their husbands deaths, well, she  had just crossed the 
>>line. Do you see the difference in the two  statements? And do you see the 
>>difference in the reaction of the  interviewer in the two statements?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Franklin was  making a joke based on the treason laws which would state 
>that would be  the penalty and is what happened to people who did these 
>things in the  past. No one could jump on him for making the statement 
>because it was  *factually* correct.
>
>
>
>
>
>So, why hasn't he been shot?
>
>  
>
It's Cheney and Bush who would get shot not Franklin.  Cheney and Bush 
would still get a trial.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

 Sorry, I've lost the original intent of this discussion. Suffice it 
to 
> say that in my experience, external proof of anything has not been 
as 
> important a factor as the verification of my own abilities. 
Someone 
> once told me that to rely on external phenomena will drive you 
crazy. 
> Which I tend to agree with.


Me too!  I enjoyed the ride though!  Thanks.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
>  wrote:
> > Jim:
> > 
> > > If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does 
are 
> > > the same thing; indistinguishable. 
> > 
> > Me:  As a spokesperson for the lower states of consciousness I 
also
> > want to point out that "Nature not wanting to demonstrate" 
and "not
> > being able to demonstrate" are identical positions as far as a 
proof
> > system.  That distinction presupposes to much when it comes to 
claims
> > of unique abilities.
> 
> Sorry, I've lost the original intent of this discussion. Suffice 
it to 
> say that in my experience, external proof of anything has not been 
as 
> important a factor as the verification of my own abilities. 
Someone 
> once told me that to rely on external phenomena will drive you 
crazy. 
> Which I tend to agree with.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Wars

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk"  
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > Next comes the full integration, the living of the knowledge. In 
the 
> > case of Self realization, if it is being lived as an integrated 
> > component of one's life, it has huge practical benefits. Sounds 
like 
> > the person who you refer to is not living 200% of life.  
> > 
> > 
> > Maharishi lives 1,000,000% of life and yet, he is still 
living a 
> fucked up life.

> >
> now that's a bold statement. Can you back it up?

This fellow knows absolutely nothing about himself, why presume he 
knows anything about a saint ?

>

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

On Jun 14, 2006, at 2:23 PM, nablus108 wrote: Wow, Rick, thats interesting. I would love to teach TM at a reasonable price once in a while. I know someone who does this. There are several who are quite successful at it. I've been tempted but I always think back the fact that I signed a legal covenant promising not to when I was on TTC. How do you or others view the ethics of this? Probably all the non-rectified teachers have thought through this, including myself. What Maharishi has done is abviously difficult to digest, but does makes sense on many different levels. For me it would be a great mistake to use the knowledge I received from Maharishi for my personal gain. And yes, I do hear all the arguments about learning people something good, trying to achieve 1%, following the instructions they received directly from Maharishi etcetc. But in my opinion; if someone uses Maharishis knowledge against his wish, he/she is doing so out of some kind of greed; moneywise perhaps or ego or whatever. And this has been demonstrated again and again by the socalled "independent" teachers that have posted on this forum; they are basically interested in, promoting themselves, not much altruism there, IMO. Does it make sense to go against the wishes of the person who gave you the lineage you're supposedly teaching in--and then turn around and invoke that lineage as part of the initiation process? Or is it yours to use after you got it?It would probably be cheaper to go over to SSRS's branch of the same lineage and become a initiator there. And you'd still be doing some real world-service (or at least feel like you were).It was interesting at the MUM Donavan concert a couple of the prospective MUM kids mentioned that they had to learn TM to come there, *but only from a re-certified teacher*, otherwise no dice. It seems like such a scam.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife


> > >>> > > 
> > >>> > > Wow, Rick, thats interesting. I would love to teach TM at 
a reasonable
> > >>> > > price once in a while. I know someone who does this.
> > >>> > > 
> > >> > There are several who are quite successful at it.
> > >>> > > 
> > >>> > > I've been tempted
> > >>> > > but I always think back the fact that I signed a legal 
covenant
> > >>> > > promising not to when I was on TTC. How do you or others 
view the
> > >>> > > ethics of this?

Probably all the non-rectified teachers have thought through this, 
including myself. What Maharishi has done is abviously difficult to 
digest, but does makes sense on many different levels. 
For me it would be a great mistake to use the knowledge I received 
from Maharishi for my personal gain. And yes, I do hear all the 
arguments about learning people something good, trying to achieve 1%, 
following the instructions they received directly from Maharishi 
etcetc. But in my opinion; if someone uses Maharishis knowledge 
against his wish, he/she is doing so out of some kind of greed; 
moneywise perhaps or ego or whatever. 
And this has been demonstrated again and again by the 
socalled "independent" teachers that have posted on this forum; they 
are basically interested in, promoting themselves, not much altruism 
there, IMO.







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[FairfieldLife] Dr. Robert Schneider Publishes New Book

Title: Dr. Robert Schneider Publishes New Book

June 14, 2006

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Dr. Schneider Publishes Book on Heart Health
Faculty member Robert Schneider achieved another milestone in the University’s 20-year history of research on cardiovascular disease this month with the publication of his book, Total Heart Health: How to Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease with the Maharishi Vedic Approach to Health.

“We congratulate Dr. Schneider on the publication of this landmark book,” said Craig Pearson, University executive vice-president. “It is the capstone of more than 20 years of research work by Dr. Schneider and his colleagues, in collaboration with universities around the country.”

According to Dr. Schneider, the book gives the wholeness of the 40 aspects of Maharishi Vedic Approach to HealthSM using the angle of cardiovascular disease and categorizes these aspects into the areas of mind, body, and environment.

The book explains that everything inside and outside us is based on an inner intelligence of nature. This level of the “inner healer” has been discovered both by ancient Vedic science and by modern science in physics and physiology. When any part of one’s physiology, such as blood pressure, gets disconnected from the network of inner intelligence, which can happen as a result of negative influences from the body, mind, or environment, imbalances and illness such as heart disease can result.

The book begins with a review of the major cardiovascular risk factors such as blood pressure, cholesterol, stress, obesity, smoking, and diabetes. It then explains the approaches recommended to restore balance in the mind, body, and environment using techniques such as the Transcendental Meditation® program, dietary guidelines and use of herbal supplements, and Maharishi VedicSM architecture.

“People can apply a lot of this knowledge on their own,” said Dr. Schneider. “They can do an assessment of their own mind-body type and begin right away with a program to restore balance.”

The book targets a huge portion of the population because 150 million Americans suffer from one or more risk factors for heart disease and over half of all Americans will die from this disease.

“The number one cause of death in the world today is cardiovascular disease,” Dr. Schneider said. “The book is really meant to bring out the knowledge of how to prevent and treat heart disease, based on the University’s extensive research, in a popular yet science-based format.”

Dr. Pearson said the book opens the door not only to a healthy heart but to perfect health, enlightenment, and world peace. “I hope this book reaches many millions of people worldwide and inspires leaders in government, business, and education to make Maharishi’s programs for perfect health, enlightenment, and peace available to everyone.”

Visit http://www.totalhearthealth.info for an overview of this natural approach to a healthier heart.

SM Maharishi Vedic Approach to Health, Maharishi Vedic, and Maharishi University of Management are registered or common law trademarks licensed to Maharishi Vedic Education Development Corporation and used under sublicense or with permission.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

On Jun 14, 2006, at 1:43 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: she was so threatened by the fact that she was seeing these things and that they *weren't* being done by *her* teacher (Maharishi) that she just blotted them out and refused to ever deal with the experience. I have heard that in the months that followed she denied ever having seen Rama, which possibly ties into this whole denial thang, but also could just have been fear (at that time and place) of being thrown out of the TMO for having seen another teacher. Anyway, my point is that people who claim that they want to see the siddhis may have a surprise or two in store for them when they do. They may find out a great deal about what they *really* want. :-) Alternatively, fulfillment of the Sidhis can be just as unsettling to one's concepts. Either way I agree-- very much a case of 'be careful what you wish for'... It was just a fascinating evening for me, watching her avoiding her own perceptions. I did not tell her before the talk that Rama could do siddhis, or to watch for them, and he never announced that he was about to do them, even to the point of saying "Watch this." That night, a small gathering of about 50 students and their guests, he just did them ex tempore, slipping them in *while* giving a talk on something or another. And because of her mumbling thing, there was no question that she was seeing them at the time, but then for whatever reason she decided to "not have seen them," and that decision was more powerful than her own perceptions. Go figure. Unless of course she was pissed because she realized he was using some form of suggestion...Some Buddhist teachers have suggested that Zen Master Rama was just doing a form of "magical display" (if he was not hypnotizing people)--a kind of minor siddhi where they change people's perceptions. Supposedly much easier to do and a lot more common than actual levitation siddhi.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> 
> It does interest me that Yogananda's book is a
> > fantastic example of how spiritual people use the appearance of
> > science when it suits them.  The New Testament does the same thing. 
> > It appears to follow scientific standards and gives the impression of
> > a method, but it does not conform to the proper procedures.  It is a
> > great "proof" for people who do not understand or value a more
> > reliable application of the method.
> 
> Just for the record, the scientific method didn't exist
> in biblical times.  They weren't trying to even appear
> to follow "scientific standards" because they hadn't
> been established yet and wouldn't be for many centuries.
> They were using the standards of their culture.
> 
> It's one thing to point out that they used different
> standards that don't conform to modern ones; it's
> quite another to suggest that they were trying to
> make people think they were conforming to standards
> that nobody knew anything about, including the folks
> who wrote the Bible.
>

Good point, I am glad you got back to it.  The scientific method
evolved as a result from human's figuring out methods of procedures to
minimize errors.  The author's of the bible, and the people who chose
which authors to include in the bible, were using and ,I claim
manipulating, the standards of credibility of their era.  So Jesus
healing the sick gets in, but making a bird out of clay as a young boy
and it flying away did not.  Are you saying that they had no concept
of being credible back then?  I don't think they even clear the bar of
their own day's standards.  The sensory based evidence is
contradictory in the different gospels.  Even back then they
understood that problem didn't they?

But your point is well taken.  We have learned a lot since then about
standards of credibility and that standard should not be applied. 
Have you seen the book Misquoting Jesus : The Story Behind Who Changed
the Bible and Why?

It lays out a pretty compelling case for my claim.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jim:
> 
> > If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are 
> > the same thing; indistinguishable. 
> 
> Me:  As a spokesperson for the lower states of consciousness I also
> want to point out that "Nature not wanting to demonstrate" and "not
> being able to demonstrate" are identical positions as far as a proof
> system.  That distinction presupposes to much when it comes to claims
> of unique abilities.

Sorry, I've lost the original intent of this discussion. Suffice it to 
say that in my experience, external proof of anything has not been as 
important a factor as the verification of my own abilities. Someone 
once told me that to rely on external phenomena will drive you crazy. 
Which I tend to agree with.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] I hate the new format

2006-06-14 Thread gullible fool

Shemp wrote "The thing I hate the most is navigating
to old and new postings in a thread", which means he
is reading the messages at the group page, not in his
email, and there is no way to change the format of the
messages at the group page. The email settings  change
email only. 

--- Kirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Re: [FairfieldLife] I hate the new formatIt's under
> the email settings at the Yahoo base camp.
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: Rick Archer 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 10:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] I hate the new format
> 
> 
> on 6/14/06 10:27 AM, shempmcgurk at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> 
> 
>   I hate the new Yahoo! format.
> 
>   Anyway we can get the old one back?
> 
>   The thing I hate the most is navigating to old and
> new postings in a 
>   thread.
> 
> 
> Edit your settings. You can switch back to
> "Traditional" settings.  

__
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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  
> wrote:
> she was so threatened by the
> > fact that she was seeing these things and that
> > they *weren't* being done by *her* teacher 
> > (Maharishi) that she just blotted them out
> > and refused to ever deal with the experience.
> > I have heard that in the months that followed
> > she denied ever having seen Rama, which possibly
> > ties into this whole denial thang, but also could
> > just have been fear (at that time and place) of
> > being thrown out of the TMO for having seen 
> > another teacher.
> > 
> > Anyway, my point is that people who claim that
> > they want to see the siddhis may have a surprise
> > or two in store for them when they do. They may
> > find out a great deal about what they *really*
> > want.  :-)
>
> Alternatively, fulfillment of the Sidhis can be just as unsettling 
> to one's concepts. Either way I agree-- very much a case of 'be 
> careful what you wish for'...

It was just a fascinating evening for me, watching
her avoiding her own perceptions. I did not tell
her before the talk that Rama could do siddhis, or
to watch for them, and he never announced that he
was about to do them, even to the point of saying
"Watch this." That night, a small gathering of about
50 students and their guests, he just did them ex
tempore, slipping them in *while* giving a talk on
something or another. And because of her mumbling
thing, there was no question that she was seeing
them at the time, but then for whatever reason she
decided to "not have seen them," and that decision
was more powerful than her own perceptions. Go 
figure.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Damn Judy, I am only working on one cup of coffee here!  Let me see if
> I can make an intelligible response!
> 
> > Coming back to this, because I think it's an
> > important point: If Unity consciousness is as
> > MMY defines it, and if he's in Unity consciousness,
> > it isn't *up* to MMY, independently of nature,
> > whether to perform siddhis.  It's nature's call.
> > 
> > So it wouldn't really be a falsifiable standard
> > after all.
> 
> I think he has already thrown his hat in to the ring of demonstrating
> student's flying for marketing purposes. So it seems like nature has
> spoken on this and just hasn't delivered the goods.  He has used the
> impression of science for his marketing and even revealed his strategy
> in his "Science of Being".  So it seems like it is too late for him to
> claim that nature just doesn't want him to blow people away and gain
> millions of followers by demonstrating something amazing.

As far as I'm aware, he hasn't made that claim.  I
was extrapolating from several strands of his teaching.
 
> Maybe it was never meant as a falsifiable standard even though it was
> presented that way.  I may have been giving MMY too much credit for
> being sincere about his interest in proofs and testing.

My guess is that he believed siddhis would happen in
fairly short order.  I don't know what, if anything,
he's said about them now that it's evident this was
an overly optimistic expectation, so I don't know how
he has rationalized it.



> 
> Erwin Schroedinger's quote is interesting.  If my single cup of coffee
> brain can wrap around this multiple cups of coffee question...
> 
> I don't buy his conclusion.  He seems to be jumping levels of
> existence unnecessarily.  He starts with theory, determinism, goes to
> personal experience, free will, and then lapses into poetry.

Well, it's not really determinism in the philosophical
sense.  He explicitly qualifies it as "statistico-
deterministic," by which he's presumably referring to
quantum mechanics--the observations and the math, not
just theory.

Then he asks how can it even be statistico-deterministic
when we have such a clear experience of exercising our
free will?  Why is the scientific fact incompatible
with our most basic sense of ourselves?

> I don't think his conclusion is logical at all

It isn't, it's paradoxical.  It's the Advaita paradox.

, it is just put
> together out of his imagination.

He does identify it as an "inference."

  It sounds beautiful, but it is not
> how I think of it.  When he is doing science he may be the man, but in
> his forays into philosophy he just sounds like an old-school Chopra. 

Ah, Curtis, come on.  Chopra's not a physicist.
Schroedinger is referencing Advaita.  He isn't the
only modern physicist who got into mysticism by any
means.  I should recommend another Wilber book to
you, called "Quantum Questions: The Mystical Writings
of the World's Great Physicists."  It's a collection
Wilber edited, and his introduction is a crystal-clear
explanation of how modern physics can lead one to
mysticism--but *not* in the "Tao of Physics" style at
all, rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely
beyond science.
 
> We psychologically experience our free will acting as well as the
> determined parts of our habits and the effects of past actions and
> experiences coming into play and interacting with our will.  Trying to
> drop a bad habit puts this in our face clearly.

Sure, but this doesn't contradict Shroedinger.

  As far as deciding if
> the universe has some designs on our personal actions

That would be the Self--yours and mine and everyone
else's--not some independent entity: "I--I in the
widest meaning of the word, that is to say, every
conscious mind that has ever said 'I'--am the person,
if any, who controls the 'motion of the atoms' according
to the Laws of Nature."


, this is an area
> for philosophical speculations. Identifying our sense of "I" with the
> "I" controlling the motion of the atoms is more poetry than
> philosophy.  Not that poetry is bad, I love it.

I think one can say it's mystical philosophy.

> So how do you understand it?

As Schroedinger does; that's why I quoted him!

> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Another wrinkle: what exactly does "able to do
> > > > the siddhis" actually mean in the context of
> > > > Unity consciousness?  Does it really mean "on
> > > > demand"?
> > > 
> > > This ends up in the broader question of free will and determinism in
> > > general in any state of consciousness.  Nice point about the
paradox.
> > > 
> > > I recognize, and others have pointed out, that MMY is unique in his
> > > perspective of siddhis.  Many other teachers claim they are
> > > impediments to growth, or at lest distractions.  But in his system
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "If your mind is doing the doubt thing, it's going to do the
> > doubt thing no matter who the supposed "expert" is."
> 
> I don't think I am as skeptical as you are about the use of proper
> tests in science.  

I've just seen it so often for so long, man. People 
have the ability to deny the "findings of science,"
just as they have the ability to deny the things 
they see and taste and feel right in front of them.
The kung-fu of denial is FAR more powerful than the
kung-fu of science.  :-)

> The whole history of science as advanced on our
> ability to have confidence in procedures and make predictions to 
> test
> further and to develop theories. The mindset of doubt is not the
> critical thing in science. Doubt or belief should not matter if the
> procedures are followed.  Of course humans being humans we mess this
> up a lot and so it takes some time to separate the BS from what 
> seems
> conclusive for now.  Until the next test!
> 
> I can appreciate your description of how our body reacts to seeing
> someone levitate!  "I believe I wet my drawers!" would probably be 
> mine!

Technically, it's a navel chakra thang. It's like someone
punching you in the stomach, not a one-time punch but a
continual pressure on that area of the body. It can be
disconcerting until you get used to it.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

Judy:
> In other words: Does he have the ability to want to
> > do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature
> > "wants"?
> >

Jim:

> If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are 
> the same thing; indistinguishable. 

Me:  As a spokesperson for the lower states of consciousness I also
want to point out that "Nature not wanting to demonstrate" and "not
being able to demonstrate" are identical positions as far as a proof
system.  That distinction presupposes to much when it comes to claims
of unique abilities.





--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> wrote:
> > However, there could be a good deal of semantic
> > ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity
> > consciousness.
> > 
> > In other words: Does he have the ability to want to
> > do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature
> > "wants"?
> >
> If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are 
> the same thing; indistinguishable. 
> 
> That is one of the completely different ways of functioning of an 
> enlightened person. Before enlightenment, it is all intention based 
> on ego, which is not a bad thing, just a lot harder. 
> 
> After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier 
> to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, and 
> in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it is simply 
> the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated 
> thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is just easier.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Wars

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Next comes the full integration, the living of the knowledge. In the 
> case of Self realization, if it is being lived as an integrated 
> component of one's life, it has huge practical benefits. Sounds like 
> the person who you refer to is not living 200% of life.  
> 
> 
> Maharishi lives 1,000,000% of life and yet, he is still living a 
fucked up life.
>
now that's a bold statement. Can you back it up?

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Concept on top of concept humping another concept giving rise to 
litters of baby concepts. None of this is helpful in the slightest 
way.
> 
Ok then, nothing more to say- I am not much into concepts for their 
own sake...
 
> - Original Message - 
> From: jim_flanegin 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 10:16 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk"  
> wrote:
> >
> > This reification of a concept of some 'nature' is a fallacy.
> 
> Nature=the sum total of relative existence; infinite time and 
infinite 
> space, and infinite manifestation.  
> > 
> > After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just 
easier 
> > to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, 
and 
> > in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it is 
simply 
> > the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and 
dedicated 
> > thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is just 
easier.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To subscribe, send a message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Or go to: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> and click 'Join This Group!' 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

It does interest me that Yogananda's book is a
> fantastic example of how spiritual people use the appearance of
> science when it suits them.  The New Testament does the same thing. 
> It appears to follow scientific standards and gives the impression of
> a method, but it does not conform to the proper procedures.  It is a
> great "proof" for people who do not understand or value a more
> reliable application of the method.

Just for the record, the scientific method didn't exist
in biblical times.  They weren't trying to even appear
to follow "scientific standards" because they hadn't
been established yet and wouldn't be for many centuries.
They were using the standards of their culture.

It's one thing to point out that they used different
standards that don't conform to modern ones; it's
quite another to suggest that they were trying to
make people think they were conforming to standards
that nobody knew anything about, including the folks
who wrote the Bible.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

Damn Judy, I am only working on one cup of coffee here!  Let me see if
I can make an intelligible response!

> Coming back to this, because I think it's an
> important point: If Unity consciousness is as
> MMY defines it, and if he's in Unity consciousness,
> it isn't *up* to MMY, independently of nature,
> whether to perform siddhis.  It's nature's call.
> 
> So it wouldn't really be a falsifiable standard
> after all.

I think he has already thrown his hat in to the ring of demonstrating
student's flying for marketing purposes. So it seems like nature has
spoken on this and just hasn't delivered the goods.  He has used the
impression of science for his marketing and even revealed his strategy
in his "Science of Being".  So it seems like it is too late for him to
claim that nature just doesn't want him to blow people away and gain
millions of followers by demonstrating something amazing. 

Maybe it was never meant as a falsifiable standard even though it was
presented that way.  I may have been giving MMY too much credit for
being sincere about his interest in proofs and testing.

Erwin Schroedinger's quote is interesting.  If my single cup of coffee
brain can wrap around this multiple cups of coffee question...

I don't buy his conclusion.  He seems to be jumping levels of
existence unnecessarily.  He starts with theory, determinism, goes to
personal experience, free will, and then lapses into poetry.

I don't think his conclusion is logical at all, it is just put
together out of his imagination.  It sounds beautiful, but it is not
how I think of it.  When he is doing science he may be the man, but in
his forays into philosophy he just sounds like an old-school Chopra.  

We psychologically experience our free will acting as well as the
determined parts of our habits and the effects of past actions and
experiences coming into play and interacting with our will.  Trying to
drop a bad habit puts this in our face clearly.  As far as deciding if
the universe has some designs on our personal actions, this is an area
for philosophical speculations. Identifying our sense of "I" with the
"I" controlling the motion of the atoms is more poetry than
philosophy.  Not that poetry is bad, I love it.

So how do you understand it?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> > > Another wrinkle: what exactly does "able to do
> > > the siddhis" actually mean in the context of
> > > Unity consciousness?  Does it really mean "on
> > > demand"?
> > 
> > This ends up in the broader question of free will and determinism in
> > general in any state of consciousness.  Nice point about the paradox.
> > 
> > I recognize, and others have pointed out, that MMY is unique in his
> > perspective of siddhis.  Many other teachers claim they are
> > impediments to growth, or at lest distractions.  But in his system
> > they serve a much more interesting role for me.  They are indications
> > that one has gained certain masteries over the laws of nature.  I
> > think they are important to distinguish "higher" states from just a
> > flowery description of what ordinary, aware people are walking around
> > in every day.  Since he does demonstrate siddhis at their incomplete
> > hopping level, I can't see why he would not show the real deal.  I
> > think it was commendable of him to use the performance of siddhis as
> > tests of consciousness.  It gives a falsifiable standard.
> 
> Coming back to this, because I think it's an
> important point: If Unity consciousness is as
> MMY defines it, and if he's in Unity consciousness,
> it isn't *up* to MMY, independently of nature,
> whether to perform siddhis.  It's nature's call.
> 
> So it wouldn't really be a falsifiable standard
> after all.
> 
> And yes, it's all very much wrapped up in the free
> will/determinism paradox.  I don't personally
> have any problem with the idea that my sense of
> free will is an illusion--that is, my "small 
> self"'s sense of free will.  I think we assume
> we have free will because we're dimly intuiting
> that the Self has free will.
> 
> I think I've posted this quote from Schroedinger
> here before, but it's germane to this discussion:
> 
> Erwin Schroedinger, in an essay called "The I That Is God,"
> wrote:
> 
>...The space-time events in the body of a living being which
>correspond to the activity of its mind, to its self-conscious or
>any other actions, are...if not strictly deterministic at any
>rate statistico-deterministicLet me regard this as a fact, as
>I believe every unbiased biologist would, if there were not the
>well-known, unpleasant feeling about "declaring oneself to be a
>pure mechanism."  For it is deemed to contradict Free Will as
>warranted by direct introspection
> 
>Let us see whether we cannot draw the correct, noncontradictory
>conclusion from the following two premises:
> 
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wars





Next comes the full integration, the living of the 
knowledge. In the case of Self realization, if it is being lived as an 
integrated component of one's life, it has huge practical benefits. Sounds 
like the person who you refer to is not living 200% of life.  
Maharishi lives 
1,000,000% of life and yet, he is still living a fucked up 
life.
__._,_.___





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Re: [FairfieldLife] I hate the new format

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] I hate the new format





It's under the email settings at the 
Yahoo base camp.
 
- Original Message - 
From: Rick Archer 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] I hate the new format
on 6/14/06 10:27 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

I hate the new Yahoo! format.Anyway we can 
  get the old one back?The thing I hate the most is navigating to old 
  and new postings in a thread.Edit your 
settings. You can switch back to Traditional settings.  
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'






Concept on top of concept humping 
another concept giving rise to litters of baby concepts. None of this is helpful 
in the slightest way.
 
 
- Original Message - 
From: jim_flanegin 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 10:16 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy 
Field'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
"Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>> This reification of 
a concept of some 'nature' is a fallacy.Nature=the sum total of relative 
existence; infinite time and infinite space, and infinite 
manifestation.  > > After enlightenment, there is not much 
ownership, it is just easier > to do what nature wants because it is 
easiest to support nature, and > in turn nature supports us. I know it 
sounds crazy, but it is simply > the way it is. So intention exists, and 
desires exist and dedicated > thought and action exist, but supported by 
nature. It is just 
easier.> Yahoo! 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: I hate the new format

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 6/14/06 10:27 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > I hate the new Yahoo! format.
> > 
> > Anyway we can get the old one back?
> > 
> > The thing I hate the most is navigating to old and new postings in a
> > thread.
> > 
> Edit your settings. You can switch back to ³Traditional² settings.
>

Didn't see any difference, at least for the issues that matter to me...

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Re: [FairfieldLife] I hate the new format

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] I hate the new format





on 6/14/06 10:27 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

I hate the new Yahoo! format.

Anyway we can get the old one back?

The thing I hate the most is navigating to old and new postings in a 
thread.

Edit your settings. You can switch back to “Traditional” settings.

__._,_.___





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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 10:40 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> 
> > I don't share any of those mentioned goals.  Eternal peacefulness is
> > death for me.  Deep contentment comes and goes which motivates my
> > actions toward my goals. I don't desire it as a permanent  state.  I
> > don't think we share the same assumptions about the concept of God and
> > it's value in our lives.  I am dedicated to my own goals and the
> > people I love in my life, and that seems to fill up my world .  I
> > don't know what you mean by "patterns".
> 
> Yeah, try writin' some blues when you're in eternal peacefulness and  
> evenness.
> 
> Rolling Stone cover:
> 
> Curtis Blues Downsized from God to Man:
> Blues legend says  he's given up the blues,
> He will now only write bhajans to the Goddess:
> Promises to tour the Ganges next year.
> 
> ;-)
>

Actually, David Lynch claims that you don't have to be dark to do movies about 
the Dark 
Side...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: New file uploaded to FairfieldLife

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 6/14/06 2:09 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > 
> > , Rick Archer  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > on 6/13/06 9:23 AM, Michael Murphy at dawnhawk@ wrote:
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Wow, Rick, thats interesting. I would love to teach TM at a reasonable
> >>> > > price once in a while. I know someone who does this.
> >>> > > 
> >> > There are several who are quite successful at it.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > I've been tempted
> >>> > > but I always think back the fact that I signed a legal covenant
> >>> > > promising not to when I was on TTC. How do you or others view the
> >>> > > ethics of this? There has been  so much organizational change over the
> >>> > > years -- I wonder if the organization still exists that I made the
> >>> > > covenant with. I think it was the World Plan Executive Council.
> >>> > > 
> >> > Your call. Has the TMO always honored its commitments?
> >> >
> > 
> > So a promise is only valid as long as the other side keeps their side of the
> > bargain?
> > 
> Tends to work that way. If your spouse violates their wedding vows
> repeatedly, you take your own vows less seriously and get divorced.
>

But a divorce is a special legal formality. If it were a matter of taking your 
vows less 
seriously, you'd just start cheating.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Wars

--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> TorquiseB writes snipped:
> Life is *full* of contradictions. So, as far as
> I can tell, is enlightenment. Before enlightenment,
> Chop Suey and contradictions; after enlightenment,
> Chop Suey and contradictions. And occasionally a 
> side order of General Tsao's Chicken, just to 
> spice things up.
> 
> Tom T:
> As someone mentioned at Satsang last week. On the one hand I know 
that
> I am the Self completely. On the other hand how come my life is a
> totaling f**king mess. Answer. Brahman is the fullness of life. You
> know that old 200% of life they promised. It ain't going to happen 
the
> way you thought it would. Get over it. Welcome to that truly unique
> view of the 200% of life. Enjoy Tom

As we've all heard, there are stages to knowing anything- First 
comes the intellectual knowledge, such as the person who's life is a 
f**cking mess stated. 

Next comes the full integration, the living of the knowledge. In the 
case of Self realization, if it is being lived as an integrated 
component of one's life, it has huge practical benefits. Sounds like 
the person who you refer to is not living 200% of life.  

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

Me:
Sometimes I think that it is the lower states of consciousness that we
> are forgetting about. What I mean by this is that it is possible that
> the rishis were dealing with a population so ignorant that our modern
> awareness is the enlightened state. I think any of our awarenesses
> could be described in the flowery language of the states of
> consciousness if we cared to see it that way.
Judy:
That's an interesting point. I'm not sure it's the case,
but it's certainly a novel idea!

ME:
Yeah, leave it to me to "represent" for all the lower states of
consciousness!

Nice points on the paradox.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> > > Another wrinkle: what exactly does "able to do
> > > the siddhis" actually mean in the context of
> > > Unity consciousness?  Does it really mean "on
> > > demand"?
> > 
> > This ends up in the broader question of free will and determinism in
> > general in any state of consciousness.  Nice point about the paradox.
> > 
> > I recognize, and others have pointed out, that MMY is unique in his
> > perspective of siddhis.  Many other teachers claim they are
> > impediments to growth, or at lest distractions.
> 
> However, they frequently base this claim on
> something Patanjali says, interpreting it as
> a warning against practicing his siddhis
> techniques.
> 
> There's a really good case to be made that it
> isn't a warning at all but a technical description.
> 
> But that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
> 
>   But in his system
> > they serve a much more interesting role for me.  They are indications
> > that one has gained certain masteries over the laws of nature.
> 
> Per MMY (and others), we all have that already,
> we just haven't realized it experientially.
> 
> But it's almost impossible to talk about without
> sitting on one side of the paradox.
> 
> 
> 
>   I
> > think they are important to distinguish "higher" states from just a
> > flowery description of what ordinary, aware people are walking around
> > in every day.  Since he does demonstrate siddhis at their incomplete
> > hopping level, I can't see why he would not show the real deal.  I
> > think it was commendable of him to use the performance of siddhis as
> > tests of consciousness.  It gives a falsifiable standard.
> > 
> > Sometimes I think that it is the lower states of consciousness that we
> > are forgetting about.  What I mean by this is that it is possible that
> > the rishis were dealing with a population so ignorant that our modern
> > awareness is the enlightened state.  I think any of our awarenesses
> > could be described in the flowery language of the states of
> > consciousness if we cared to see it that way.
> 
> That's an interesting point.  I'm not sure it's the case,
> but it's certainly a novel idea!
> 
>   The only disctinciton
> > we can put our finger on is the performance of supernormal abilities.
> >  Otherwise maybe we all have the siddhis and nature has not needed us
> > to show them?
> 
> And that's the *other* side of the paradox...
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
she was so threatened by the
> fact that she was seeing these things and that
> they *weren't* being done by *her* teacher 
> (Maharishi) that she just blotted them out
> and refused to ever deal with the experience.
> I have heard that in the months that followed
> she denied ever having seen Rama, which possibly
> ties into this whole denial thang, but also could
> just have been fear (at that time and place) of
> being thrown out of the TMO for having seen 
> another teacher.
> 
> Anyway, my point is that people who claim that
> they want to see the siddhis may have a surprise
> or two in store for them when they do. They may
> find out a great deal about what they *really*
> want.  :-)
>
Alternatively, fulfillment of the Sidhis can be just as unsettling 
to one's concepts. Either way I agree-- very much a case of 'be 
careful what you wish for'...






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[FairfieldLife] I hate the new format

2006-06-14 Thread shempmcgurk

I hate the new Yahoo! format.

Anyway we can get the old one back?

The thing I hate the most is navigating to old and new postings in a 
thread.

The one good thing: improved search capabilities. There is now an 
advanced search for Yahoo! groups that allows one to seaarch almost as 
well as with google groups.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

"If your mind is doing the doubt thing, it's going to do the
doubt thing no matter who the supposed "expert" is."

I don't think I am as skeptical as you are about the use of proper
tests in science.  The whole history of science as advanced on our
ability to have confidence in procedures and make predictions to test
further and to develop theories. The mindset of doubt is not the
critical thing in science. Doubt or belief should not matter if the
procedures are followed.  Of course humans being humans we mess this
up a lot and so it takes some time to separate the BS from what seems
conclusive for now.  Until the next test!

I can appreciate your description of how our body reacts to seeing
someone levitate!  "I believe I wet my drawers!" would probably be mine!






--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"  wrote:
> >
> > Oh, OK- Got it. So my question back is, what practical difference in 
> > your life would it make if you witnessed someone, even yourself, 
> > externally manifesting a sidhi?
> > 
> > Would deep contentment well up from within you? Would you gain 
> > eternal peacefulness? Would your life be ever dedicated to God? Or 
> > would you think about how neat it was, and then just go back to 
> > whatever patterns your life has taken on?
> 
> I think that anyone who thinks that witnessing the
> siddhis would change their life in a major way is
> fooling themselves. Been there, done that, so often
> over a period of fourteen years that we all got kinda
> bored watching them being demonstrated. Ho hum, he's
> levitating again.
> 
> Don't get me wrong...at first there *is* a liberating
> effect of witnessing these things, along the lines 
> of a simultaneous "letting go" of a lifetime's dis-
> belief in such phenomena. At the same time there is
> a level of physical freakout that is difficult to
> put into words (Carlos Castaneda does it well IMO),
> as your body reacts to having its world turned upside
> down.
> 
> But in the long run, other than opening you in a very
> personal way to the possibility of "more things in
> heaven and earth, Horatio," it's not really as earth-
> shaking as one might imagine.
> 
> Especially if one believes as I do (and always did,
> even while witnessing these things) that there is
> absolutely no connection between the siddhis and
> enlightenment.
> 
> > By the way, the best book I ever read of people manifesting sidhis 
> > was by one of this planet's most powerful and magnificent saints, 
> > Yogananda. His recountings are 100% true, so what more do you need?
> 
> Again, I think that many aren't as in touch with their
> innate ability to *disbelieve* as they could be. :-)
> One of the things that strikes you the strongest when
> witnessing siddhis is how strongly your mind and body
> wants to *NOT* believe what you are seeing and exper-
> iencing. They crave rationality and predictability and
> they (mind and body) really don't LIKE having to witness
> these things that Just Don't Compute.
> 
> I've seen people sit and watch someone levitate and 
> admit it verbally as it happens and then get up and
> leave the room and then claim the next day that it never
> happened, and that they had never said such a thing.
> They had simply blotted the whole experience out of
> their minds because their minds didn't want to deal
> with it.
> 
> The same thing would happen with a book, any book.
> If someone's natural doubt about such things is trig-
> gered, the fact that Yogananda wrote a book about
> witnessing siddhis means nothing more than the fact
> that I wrote a book about witnessing siddhis. If your
> mind is doing the doubt thing, it's going to do the
> doubt thing no matter who the supposed "expert" is.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"  
wrote:
> >
> > Oh, OK- Got it. So my question back is, what practical 
difference in 
> > your life would it make if you witnessed someone, even yourself, 
> > externally manifesting a sidhi?
> > 
> > Would deep contentment well up from within you? Would you gain 
> > eternal peacefulness? Would your life be ever dedicated to God? 
Or 
> > would you think about how neat it was, and then just go back to 
> > whatever patterns your life has taken on?
> 
> I think that anyone who thinks that witnessing the
> siddhis would change their life in a major way is
> fooling themselves. Been there, done that, so often
> over a period of fourteen years that we all got kinda
> bored watching them being demonstrated. Ho hum, he's
> levitating again.
> 
> Don't get me wrong...at first there *is* a liberating
> effect of witnessing these things, along the lines 
> of a simultaneous "letting go" of a lifetime's dis-
> belief in such phenomena. At the same time there is
> a level of physical freakout that is difficult to
> put into words (Carlos Castaneda does it well IMO),
> as your body reacts to having its world turned upside
> down.
> 
> But in the long run, other than opening you in a very
> personal way to the possibility of "more things in
> heaven and earth, Horatio," it's not really as earth-
> shaking as one might imagine.
> 
> Especially if one believes as I do (and always did,
> even while witnessing these things) that there is
> absolutely no connection between the siddhis and
> enlightenment.
> 
> > By the way, the best book I ever read of people manifesting 
sidhis 
> > was by one of this planet's most powerful and magnificent 
saints, 
> > Yogananda. His recountings are 100% true, so what more do you 
need?
> 
> Again, I think that many aren't as in touch with their
> innate ability to *disbelieve* as they could be. :-)
> One of the things that strikes you the strongest when
> witnessing siddhis is how strongly your mind and body
> wants to *NOT* believe what you are seeing and exper-
> iencing. They crave rationality and predictability and
> they (mind and body) really don't LIKE having to witness
> these things that Just Don't Compute.
> 
> I've seen people sit and watch someone levitate and 
> admit it verbally as it happens and then get up and
> leave the room and then claim the next day that it never
> happened, and that they had never said such a thing.
> They had simply blotted the whole experience out of
> their minds because their minds didn't want to deal
> with it.
> 
> The same thing would happen with a book, any book.
> If someone's natural doubt about such things is trig-
> gered, the fact that Yogananda wrote a book about
> witnessing siddhis means nothing more than the fact
> that I wrote a book about witnessing siddhis. If your
> mind is doing the doubt thing, it's going to do the
> doubt thing no matter who the supposed "expert" is.
>
Agreed. I try to avoid quoting maharishi because people frequently 
hear the 'recorded tape' and no longer the words, but he said it 
best, "Knowledge is Structured in Consciousness".





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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> The fully enlightened people alive right now are all dead.
> 
> 
> 
> ---Not so.
>
So?

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> This reification of a concept of some 'nature' is a fallacy.

Nature=the sum total of relative existence; infinite time and infinite 
space, and infinite manifestation.  
> 
> After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier 
> to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, and 
> in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it is simply 
> the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated 
> thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is just easier.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for taking the time to discuss this fascinating topic! 
> 

Sure thing!
Anyway, regardless of what your goals are, would they be satisfied if 
you witnessed a rigorously proven demonstration of the sidhis? Imo, I 
sincerely doubt it. The point being that sidhis are a signpost of 
sorts, as has been stated here many times. By themselves, they are not 
much. 

On the other hand, if you do believe that witnessing them would 
provide you with a scientific revolution in your thinking, then hold 
that in your heart, and you will witness such a thing.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'