[FairfieldLife] Hmmm... saMdhi & samaadhi

[cardemaister]

(Just killing time, waiting for the stock market to open...)

saMdhi m. putting together, junction, connection; union or 
intercourse with (instr.); compact, agreement, alliance, peace 
between (gen.), with (instr. {ñsaha}); joint, commissure, suture, 
fold; anything that joins or lies between, as dawn, dusk, twilight 
(between day and night), wall (between two rooms), also interval, 
pause, opening, hole, breach, gap; euphonic combination of words and 
sentences (g.). 

samAdhi m. putting together, conjunction, union, a whole; 
performation, accomplishment, arrangement, reconcilement; attention, 
meditation, devotion. 

As we can see, the basic meaning of "saMdhi" (pronounce ~ sund-he)
and "samaadhi" is the same, 'putting together'. The difference
between these words is that "samaadhi" contains an "additional"
prefix, or in this case perhaps rather infix, namely "aa".
The difference in the pronunciation of 'm' in these words is
due to, well, sandhi (sam + dhi; sam + aa + dhi)!
(Because in the word "saMdhi" 'dh' is a dental sound,
its "dentality" is anticipated, so to speak, in the pronunciation
of "sam" and this is why the 'm' in "sam" is changed, in 
*pronunciation* - and in sloppy devanaagarii writing, too, I guess - 
to dental nasal 'n'.)

According to Macdonell, as a verbal prefix "aa" reverses the 
meaning of verbs of giving and going. Doesn't help very much,
does it? As a wild guess, perhaps the 'aa' in "samaadhi" implies,
that the putting together (yoga) happens from "inside out", or 
stuff... :0

yoga m. (1. %{yuj} ; ifc. f. %{A}) the act of yoking , joining , 
attaching , harnessing , putting to (of horses) RV. MBh. ; a yoke , 
team , vehicle , conveyance S3Br. Kaus3. MBh. ; employment , use , 
application , performance RV. &c. &c. ; equipping or arraying (of an 
army) MBh. ; fixing (of an arrow on the bow-string) ib. ; putting on 
(of armour) L. ; a remedy , cure Sus3r. ; a means , expedient , 
device , way , manner , method MBh. Ka1v. &c. ; a supernatural 
means , charm , incantation , magical art ib. ; a trick , stratagem , 
fraud , deceit Mn. Katha1s. (cf. %{yoga-nanda}) ; undertaking , 
business , work RV. AV. TS. ; acquisition , gain , profit , wealth , 
property ib. Kaus3. MBh. ; occasion , opportunity Ka1m. Ma1rkP. ; any 
junction , union , combination , contact with (instr. with or without 
%{saha} , or comp.). MBh. Ka1v. &c. (%{yogam} %{i} , to agree , 
consent , acquiesce in anything R.) ; mixing of various materials , 
mixture MBh. R. VarBr2S. ; partaking of , possessing (instr. or 
comp.) Mn. R. Hariv. ; connection , relation (%{yogAt} , %{yogena} 
and %{yoga-tas} ifc. in consequence of , on account of , by reason 
of , according to , through) Ka1tyS3r. S3vetUp. Mn. &c. ; putting 
together , arrangement , disposition , regular succession Ka1t2h. 
[856,3] S3rS. ; fitting together , fitness , propriety , suitability 
(%{yogena} and %{yoga-tas} ind. suitably , fitly , duly , in the 
right manner) MBh. Ka1v. &c. ; exertion , endeavour , zeal , 
diligence , industry , care , attention (%{yoga-tas} ind. 
strenuously , assiduously ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] , with all one's 
powers , with overflowing zeal) Mn. MBh. &c. ; application or 
concentration of the thoughts , abstract contemplation , meditation , 
(esp.) self-concentration , abstract meditation and mental 
abstraction practised as a system (as taught by Patan5jali and called 
the Yoga philosophy ; it is the second of the two Sa1m2khya systems , 
its chief aim being to teach the means by which the human spirit may 
attain complete union with I7s3vara or the Supreme Spirit ; in the 
practice of self-concentration it is closely connected with Buddhism) 
Up. MBh. Ka1v. &c. (IW. 92) ; any simple act or rite conducive to 
Yoga or abstract meditation Sarvad. ; Yoga personified (as the son of 
Dharma and Kriya1) BhP. ; a follower of the Yoga system MBh. 
S3am2k. ; (in Sa1m2khya) the union of soul with matter (one of the 10 
Mu1lika7rtha1s or radical facts) Tattvas. ; (with Pa1s3upatas) the 
union of the individual soul with the universal soul Kula7rn2. ; 
(with Pa1n5cara1tras) devotion , pious seeking after God Sarvad. ; 
(with Jainas) contact or mixing with the outer world ib. ; (in 
astron.) conjunction , lucky conjuncture La1t2y. VarBr2S. MBh. &c. ; 
a constellation , asterism (these , with the moon , are called %
{cAndra-yogAH} and are 13 in number ; without the moon they are 
called %{kha-yogAH} , or %{nAbhasa-yogAH}) VarBr2S. ; the leading or 
principal star of a lunar asterism W. ; N. of a variable division of 
time (during which the joint motion in longitude of the sun and moon 
amounts to 13 degrees 20 minutes ; there are 27 such Yogas beginning 
with Vishkambha and ending with Vaidhr2iti) ib. ; (in arithm.) 
addition , sum , total Su1ryas. MBh. ; (in gram.) the connection of 
words together , syntactical dependence of a word , construction Nir. 
Sus3r. (ifc. = dependent on , ruled by Pa1n2. 2-2 , 8 Va1rtt. 1) ; a 
combined or concentrat

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[kenwoodfx]

It is, as anything else an individual decision. You, and everyone else decide for yourself what you will do, where you will go or not, whether you will go in the dome or not, whether you will trust and follow your teacher, who gave us such a tremendously great knowledge. Do we really understand what he has given us? It all goes naturally, everything goes naturally, there is no reason to worry about it. Don`t wait for anyone else to be more perfect, but decide for yourself to become more perfect, and then the environment will be more perfect, too.  Decide what you want, and enjoy in that freedom of choice.  If you want to come in the dome, then come.  Drop by drop, the ocean will be full. dhamiltony2k5 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Ken, a defender of the faith. Thanks for coming out. It is good to have the more purist take also here. Ken, I posted a question the other day and there were really no takers. Could you take a try?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/109126what say the tru-believer reading the list?Have they no thot on this? How do the insiders going to the domessee it going? How about a defender of the faithful speaking forthem? A public defender? What do they see it taking to bring asignificant number back?-Doug in FF--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kenwoodfx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]..> wrote:>> Mistakes you make, wrong words, wrong thinking. Just come in your pure source, and all the impurities will simply go away. Just then you will be more happy and better in every way. Still there is time for that.> > Peter ...> wrote: > > --- kenwoodfx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]..> wrote:> > > If someone is rejected, there is a reason for that,> > but that is not a reason for not coming in the Dome> > in this important time in world history.> > People who wants to do good will not think like> > that.> > Everyone who is invited is invited with good reason,> > and should come and do good for the world, not> > thinking about what small ego says, being afraid for> > his
 existence.> > Ken ,you mood making twit. Do you have an original> thought. Seems like you lost your balls a long time> ago. How's your yoni? MMY has been beating this silly> drum for decades (are you new canon fodder or> something?). Next you'll be telling us that the> pundits will come if we just squeeze our butt checks> together hard enough. Ahh. Wonderful rajasic outburst> for the day! I can't stand these mood-making, Capital> fops that have ruined the movement with there> sing-songy little girl voices wearing their light tan> suits and so terrified of aggression or asserting an> original thought. The greatest irony is that you are> MMY's curse and you don't even know it. > > ..., 
		Do you Yahoo!? 
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >Maybe  Maharishi isn't fully convinced about the
> > > > physiological
> > > > correlates either. Otherwise he would get wired up
> > > > and provide a
> > > > baseline to speed up the research.
> > >
> > > Physiological correlates would only relate to
> > > conditions of the mind. And there are many, many
> > > conditions of the mind from gross to very, very
> > > subtle.  But I don't know if any "physiological
> > > correlate" of Realization will ever be established.
> > > Consciousness is "outside" of time and space. The mind
> > > can not quantify it; measure it. From the perspective
> > > of the mind, pure consciousness is absolutely nothing;
> > > emptiness; death; annihilation. Perhaps the best that
> > > could be done would be the impact on brain function of
> > > that Realization. But would there be a common EEG
> > > signature for all brains? I don't know. Right now I
> > > doubt it. It would be interesting to take MMY, Amma
> > > and SSRS and look at the similarities and
> > > disimilarities of their brain functioning. I'm curious
> > > what Fred Travis has come up with correlating specific
> > > enlightenment experiences with EEG function on the TM
> > > path (because I'm sure it would vary depending upon
> > > the path/techniques).
> > >
> > 
> > Even if Fred used others, he would have to depend on the grokking
> > of MMY, Amma, and SSRS or someone to give the nod to the folks used
> > to establish the baseline signature. Have to start somewhere.
> > 
> 
> Actually, Fred asked for volunteers who were reporting long-term
24/7 witnessing. He 
> interviewed them and found correlations between how they reported
their internal 
> perception of "self" and their EEG and other physiological measures:
> 
> http://www.brainresearchinstitute.org/research/ConcCog2004.pdf
> 
> > Can't help comparing Earl's question to MMY about why he doesn't
> > establish a group, when I think about this  The EEG stuff is
> > good PR and grant getting material.
> 
> Again, which state? And, while perhaps I misremember the original
letter, my recollection 
> is that Kaplan reported MMY as saying "there is no evidence that
what you say would 
> happen would happen." Kaplan took this to be referring to the ME. I
took it to be referring 
> to financial support from a grateful world...
>

Anything CC or above would be satisfactory for measurement puposes if
they were looking for 'stable' patterns . 

"This version of my story really starts about three years ago.  I was
sitting with Maharishi privately, because at the time I had an open
invitation to come to Vlodrop and sit with Mahesh whenever I wanted
to.  At that time I knew that Mahesh had many tens of millions of
dollars, the money he needed to create a 10,000 group.  He was talking
about building big buildings, buying airlines, etc. etc.  I said,
Maharishi, since you have the money and supposedly you have enough
pundits, why don't you create a 10,000 group in India and then the
world will experience peace and the TM movement will gain great
support of the laws of nature and our other activities will work out. 
Mahesh looked at me like I was crazy and said "Earl, if we created the
group  then we don't know if it would create world peace or not.  We
would have to have the group and then see what the effect it has."

Earl Kaplans Letter 04/16/2004 

Both Earl and Maharishi refer to creating world peace not wether the 
the world would support it finacially after the fact.

JohnY






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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kenwoodfx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It is, as anything else an individual decision. You, and everyone else
decide for yourself what you will do, where you will go or not, whether
you will go in the dome or not, whether you will trust and follow your
teacher, who gave us such a tremendously great knowledge. Do we really
understand what he has given us? It all goes naturally, everything goes
naturally, there is no reason to worry about it. Don`t wait for anyone
else to be more perfect, but decide for yourself to become more perfect,
and then the environment will be more perfect, too.
>   Decide what you want, and enjoy in that freedom of choice.
>   If you want to come in the dome, then come.
>   Drop by drop, the ocean will be full.
>
> dhamiltony2k5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>   Ken, a defender of the faith. Thanks for coming out. It is
good to
> have the more purist take also here. Ken, I posted a question the
> other day and there were really no takers. Could you take a try?
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/109126
> what say the tru-believer reading the list?
> Have they no thot on this? How do the insiders going to the domes
> see it going? How about a defender of the faithful speaking for
> them? A public defender? What do they see it taking to bring a
> significant number back?
>
> -Doug in FF
>
Is this the 'SIMS Shuffle' ?

JohnY






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:

> > Again, which state? And, while perhaps I misremember the original
> > letter, my recollection is that Kaplan reported MMY as 
> > saying "there is no evidence that what you say would 
> > happen would happen." Kaplan took this to be referring
> > to the ME. I took it to be referring to financial support
> > from a grateful world...
 
> 
> "This version of my story really starts about three years ago.  I 
> was sitting with Maharishi privately, because at the time I had an 
> open invitation to come to Vlodrop and sit with Mahesh whenever I 
> wanted to.  At that time I knew that Mahesh had many tens of 
> millions of dollars, the money he needed to create a 10,000 group.  
> He was talking about building big buildings, buying airlines, etc. 
> etc.  I said, Maharishi, since you have the money and supposedly 
> you have enough pundits, why don't you create a 10,000 group in 
> India and then the world will experience peace and the TM movement 
> will gain great support of the laws of nature and our other 
> activities will work out. Mahesh looked at me like I was crazy and 
> said "Earl, if we created the group  then we don't know if it would 
> create world peace or not.  We would have to have the group and 
> then see what the effect it has."
> 
> Earl Kaplans Letter 04/16/2004 
> 
> Both Earl and Maharishi refer to creating world peace not wether
> the the world would support it finacially after the fact.

In that version of the letter.  There has apparently
been more than one, as reported here; supposedly
a draft got into circulation before Kaplan thought
it was ready.  Above Lawson refers to "the original
version."  Does he mean the draft, the first version
that was circulated?

If so, and if the quote Lawson remembers is accurate,
Kaplan may have "revised" it in the later version to
make what *he* understood MMY to be saying more explicit.

Editorial analysis:

The version you quote seems incomplete somehow. It's
not clear why MMY would make such a statement and
consider the matter closed.  The natural response
would be, "So why not create the group and see what
happens?"  But that question isn't asked.

In the version Lawson cites, MMY's comment seems to
complete the exchange, in the context of the various
money-making endeavors they were talking about.  Kaplan
suggests that instead of doing all this other stuff to
support the movement, MMY should create the pundit group,
and that in itself will be all that is needed to keep the
movement going indefinitely because *everybody* would
then support the movement.

But, in Lawson's verison, MMY responds that there's no
evidence it would have that effect, i.e., that everyone
would support the movement, implying that the TMO needs
to establish solid financial foundation first before
blowing the movement's existing resources on 
establishing the group.  Once that's accomplished,
then the group can be established and it won't matter
whether anyone else supports the movement.

Obviously we'd need to find the "original" draft version
and see if Lawson's memory of how MMY is quoted is
accurate.  But if it is, that version seems to me to
make more sense just in terms of the conversation
itself.  It would also be consistent with everything
else MMY has been doing and saying.

One other point: at the time of this conversation,
there had been several large-scale tests of the
Maharishi Effect, with published studies of the
purportedly positive results (in particular the
Jerusalem and D.C. gatherings).  MMY clearly felt
the ME had been documented (whether or not it had
been), but there wasn't the outpouring of support
from the world that he had initially expected.

So in that context as well, the quote Lawson remembers
makes more sense: from MMY's perspective, there *was*
evidence that the ME worked, but there was no evidence
that the world would recognize it and decide to support
the movement.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[dhamiltony2k5]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

wrote: Is this the 'SIMS Shuffle' ?
-JohnY

>
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kenwoodfx  wrote:
> >
> > It is, as anything else an individual decision. 

Doug writing, yes a beautiful example of TM.movement non-answer. TM-
Movement-Speak.  
Part of the deal here is that we do live together in this community 
and how the Tmorg acts and thinks does influence a lot of people 
here, our friends and neighbors.  To just dismiss the real and say 
it is all an individual decision begs the question:
> What would
> you suppose they would have to do in order to bring a more
> significant number of people back? Would they come back?
> Start with round numbers, a million TM meditators taught in the
US,
> with
> some tens of thousands of TM teachers taught, some tens of
thousands
> people taught the TM0-sidhis (27K?); and a few hundreds show up
when
> called. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/104974
>
> A lasting peace and reconciliation? Reconciling the numbers, what
> would the TMOrg need do to reconcile
> with its people? It had got pretty ugly in recent years, what could
> the elements of a lasting peace and reconciliation for the TMorg
> with its meditators?
>
> With Kind Regards,
>
> -Doug in FF
>

This question above, what say the tru-believer reading the list?
Have they no thot on this? How do the insiders going to the domes
see it going? How about a defender of the faithful speaking for
them? A public defender? What do they see it taking to bring a
significant number back?








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hmmm... saMdhi & samaadhi

[curtisdeltablues]

Do you do any FOREX trading?


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> (Just killing time, waiting for the stock market to open...)
> 
> saMdhi m. putting together, junction, connection; union or 
> intercourse with (instr.); compact, agreement, alliance, peace 
> between (gen.), with (instr. {ñsaha}); joint, commissure, suture, 
> fold; anything that joins or lies between, as dawn, dusk, twilight 
> (between day and night), wall (between two rooms), also interval, 
> pause, opening, hole, breach, gap; euphonic combination of words and 
> sentences (g.). 
> 
> samAdhi m. putting together, conjunction, union, a whole; 
> performation, accomplishment, arrangement, reconcilement; attention, 
> meditation, devotion. 
> 
> As we can see, the basic meaning of "saMdhi" (pronounce ~ sund-he)
> and "samaadhi" is the same, 'putting together'. The difference
> between these words is that "samaadhi" contains an "additional"
> prefix, or in this case perhaps rather infix, namely "aa".
> The difference in the pronunciation of 'm' in these words is
> due to, well, sandhi (sam + dhi; sam + aa + dhi)!
> (Because in the word "saMdhi" 'dh' is a dental sound,
> its "dentality" is anticipated, so to speak, in the pronunciation
> of "sam" and this is why the 'm' in "sam" is changed, in 
> *pronunciation* - and in sloppy devanaagarii writing, too, I guess - 
> to dental nasal 'n'.)
> 
> According to Macdonell, as a verbal prefix "aa" reverses the 
> meaning of verbs of giving and going. Doesn't help very much,
> does it? As a wild guess, perhaps the 'aa' in "samaadhi" implies,
> that the putting together (yoga) happens from "inside out", or 
> stuff... :0
> 
> yoga m. (1. %{yuj} ; ifc. f. %{A}) the act of yoking , joining , 
> attaching , harnessing , putting to (of horses) RV. MBh. ; a yoke , 
> team , vehicle , conveyance S3Br. Kaus3. MBh. ; employment , use , 
> application , performance RV. &c. &c. ; equipping or arraying (of an 
> army) MBh. ; fixing (of an arrow on the bow-string) ib. ; putting on 
> (of armour) L. ; a remedy , cure Sus3r. ; a means , expedient , 
> device , way , manner , method MBh. Ka1v. &c. ; a supernatural 
> means , charm , incantation , magical art ib. ; a trick , stratagem , 
> fraud , deceit Mn. Katha1s. (cf. %{yoga-nanda}) ; undertaking , 
> business , work RV. AV. TS. ; acquisition , gain , profit , wealth , 
> property ib. Kaus3. MBh. ; occasion , opportunity Ka1m. Ma1rkP. ; any 
> junction , union , combination , contact with (instr. with or without 
> %{saha} , or comp.). MBh. Ka1v. &c. (%{yogam} %{i} , to agree , 
> consent , acquiesce in anything R.) ; mixing of various materials , 
> mixture MBh. R. VarBr2S. ; partaking of , possessing (instr. or 
> comp.) Mn. R. Hariv. ; connection , relation (%{yogAt} , %{yogena} 
> and %{yoga-tas} ifc. in consequence of , on account of , by reason 
> of , according to , through) Ka1tyS3r. S3vetUp. Mn. &c. ; putting 
> together , arrangement , disposition , regular succession Ka1t2h. 
> [856,3] S3rS. ; fitting together , fitness , propriety , suitability 
> (%{yogena} and %{yoga-tas} ind. suitably , fitly , duly , in the 
> right manner) MBh. Ka1v. &c. ; exertion , endeavour , zeal , 
> diligence , industry , care , attention (%{yoga-tas} ind. 
> strenuously , assiduously ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] , with all one's 
> powers , with overflowing zeal) Mn. MBh. &c. ; application or 
> concentration of the thoughts , abstract contemplation , meditation , 
> (esp.) self-concentration , abstract meditation and mental 
> abstraction practised as a system (as taught by Patan5jali and called 
> the Yoga philosophy ; it is the second of the two Sa1m2khya systems , 
> its chief aim being to teach the means by which the human spirit may 
> attain complete union with I7s3vara or the Supreme Spirit ; in the 
> practice of self-concentration it is closely connected with Buddhism) 
> Up. MBh. Ka1v. &c. (IW. 92) ; any simple act or rite conducive to 
> Yoga or abstract meditation Sarvad. ; Yoga personified (as the son of 
> Dharma and Kriya1) BhP. ; a follower of the Yoga system MBh. 
> S3am2k. ; (in Sa1m2khya) the union of soul with matter (one of the 10 
> Mu1lika7rtha1s or radical facts) Tattvas. ; (with Pa1s3upatas) the 
> union of the individual soul with the universal soul Kula7rn2. ; 
> (with Pa1n5cara1tras) devotion , pious seeking after God Sarvad. ; 
> (with Jainas) contact or mixing with the outer world ib. ; (in 
> astron.) conjunction , lucky conjuncture La1t2y. VarBr2S. MBh. &c. ; 
> a constellation , asterism (these , with the moon , are called %
> {cAndra-yogAH} and are 13 in number ; without the moon they are 
> called %{kha-yogAH} , or %{nAbhasa-yogAH}) VarBr2S. ; the leading or 
> principal star of a lunar asterism W. ; N. of a variable division of 
> time (during which the joint motion in longitude of the sun and moon 
> amounts to 13 degrees 20 minutes ; there are 27 such Yogas beginning 
> with Vishkambha and endin

[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> However to proclaim MMY/TMO BC or other TMO/MMY style of 
enlightenment
> without his confirmation is delusion or lack of integrity. 
> 
> You yourself mentioned the trap of misinterpreating some form of
> awakening as being a much grander awakening. Given the extensive
> history of this in the TMO, and given MMY has been so picky and
> specific about confirmations of enlightenemnt, why does this 
premise
> appear to be an issue or question to you: To proclaim MMY/TMO BC or
> other TMO/MMY style of enlightenment without his confirmation is
> delusion or lack of integrity. 
> 
> To proclaim ones own definition of enlightenement, or ones 
friend's,
> is fine. Or for example, Alex's proclamation of his waking down 
level
> I awakening (excuse my lack of preciseness of terms) is great. 
> 
> My sole point is that these are not MMY/TMO styles of 
enlightenment.
> If you want to go to the mic, and have MMY confirm these as 
MMY/TMO BC
> or other MMY/TMO  enlightenment, then great. Then proclaim away. 
Until
>  then, its some other awakening.  
> 
> All yours and others apparent desire to proclaim their awakenings 
as
> the same as MMY/TMO enlightenment is quite odd. Just pronounce what
> ever awakening one wants. Other than those that have requirements 
that
> one doesn't meet.
>
And as long as someone's definition or proclamation of enlightenment 
doesn't fit your definition of what it should be, you are 'SAFE'.

Please make sure that you are always 'SAFE', with every i dotted and 
every t crossed. 'SAFE'- Aye, that's the ticket, isn't it? 'SAFETY'.

Dude, you may want to play this game about 'you can't be enlightened 
or have a valid experience of such, until you have satisfied all of 
my rules', because you know as well as I do that even if someone 
were to get up and speak with Maharishi, he would not proclaim them 
as being enlightened. 1) I have never heard of Him doing so, and 2) 
If he did on a regular basis, we would have all heard about it.

Your game is just to keep your own fears of self-dissolution at bay. 
Nothing more and nothing less.

So keep trying to dazzle us with your turns and feints, but you know 
what? At the end of the day, you are left in the dust with your 
empty arguments. Jai Guru Dev. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  
> wrote:

> > All yours and others apparent desire to proclaim their
> > awakenings as the same as MMY/TMO enlightenment is quite
> > odd. Just pronounce what ever awakening one wants. Other
> > than those that have requirements that one doesn't meet.
> >
> And as long as someone's definition or proclamation of
> enlightenment doesn't fit your definition of what it should
> be, you are 'SAFE'.

Boy, Jim, either you aren't getting what new morning
is saying AT ALL, or you feel you're entitled to
ignore it completely and substitute a completely
different version of your own devising.

What he's saying makes perfect sense on its face; it's
virtually a truism: to claim MMY-style enlightenment
(not new morning's own definition), you need to meet
the criteria MMY has set for it.

He's not saying there is no other style of enlightenment,
or that if you don't meet the MMY criteria you aren't
enlightened.

But that's how you seem to be interpreting what he
writes, for no good reason that I can see.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  
> > wrote:
> 
> > > All yours and others apparent desire to proclaim their
> > > awakenings as the same as MMY/TMO enlightenment is quite
> > > odd. Just pronounce what ever awakening one wants. Other
> > > than those that have requirements that one doesn't meet.
> > >
> > And as long as someone's definition or proclamation of
> > enlightenment doesn't fit your definition of what it should
> > be, you are 'SAFE'.
> 
> Boy, Jim, either you aren't getting what new morning
> is saying AT ALL, or you feel you're entitled to
> ignore it completely and substitute a completely
> different version of your own devising.
> 
> What he's saying makes perfect sense on its face; it's
> virtually a truism: to claim MMY-style enlightenment
> (not new morning's own definition), you need to meet
> the criteria MMY has set for it.
> 
> He's not saying there is no other style of enlightenment,
> or that if you don't meet the MMY criteria you aren't
> enlightened.
> 
> But that's how you seem to be interpreting what he
> writes, for no good reason that I can see.
>


Agreed Judy. Its rather sad the pattern:

Jim has learned to parrot a particular catechism -- which has a heavy
Tom/Rory flavor, IMO -- but has no clue as to how to apply it in the
real world. Consistent with your points, the catechism points bear
little or no relvance or correspondence to what I have written. 

Jim's cognitive disabilities, noted periodically over the past 6
months, contine to unravel. His responses to what he has read reflect
near zero reading comprehension skills. Based on his perfomances here,
given a paragraph or two, and asked to summarize or answer questions
about what he has read (as is commonly done on achievement and skill
level tests), he would fail miserably.

For a so-called liberated, to be so over-shodowed with rote talking
points that even the smallest stimulus triggers them -- while 
similtaneously the trigger apparently also overrides or shuts down
rational facilities, is ironic. And its sad to see the diminishment of
any human being.  Yet from 5000 feet, as characture of bliss-ninny
delusions  -- its amusing.

He is hardly a walking advertisment for "liberation". More an
advertisment for the possible dangers of sustained practice of
neuro-physiological techniques for self-development. 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> He is hardly a walking advertisment for "liberation". More an
> advertisment for the possible dangers of sustained practice of
> neuro-physiological techniques for self-development.
>

Your game is pathetic and tiresome my friend. 






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Peter]

--- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning
>  
> > wrote:
> 
> > > All yours and others apparent desire to proclaim
> their
> > > awakenings as the same as MMY/TMO enlightenment
> is quite
> > > odd. Just pronounce what ever awakening one
> wants. Other
> > > than those that have requirements that one
> doesn't meet.
> > >
> > And as long as someone's definition or
> proclamation of
> > enlightenment doesn't fit your definition of what
> it should
> > be, you are 'SAFE'.
> 
> Boy, Jim, either you aren't getting what new morning
> is saying AT ALL, or you feel you're entitled to
> ignore it completely and substitute a completely
> different version of your own devising.
> 
> What he's saying makes perfect sense on its face;
> it's
> virtually a truism: to claim MMY-style enlightenment
> (not new morning's own definition), you need to meet
> the criteria MMY has set for it.
> 
> He's not saying there is no other style of
> enlightenment,
> or that if you don't meet the MMY criteria you
> aren't
> enlightened.
> 
> But that's how you seem to be interpreting what he
> writes, for no good reason that I can see.


Pray tell, do we or is there a consensus on MMY style
enlightenment? I doubt it. I've always seen it as MMY
giving us a conceptual tool kit so one doesn't have a
heart attack when the domain of Realization is
breached and most of the tools fall out of the
toolbox.





> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To subscribe, send a message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Or go to: 
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> and click 'Join This Group!' 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 


__
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  
> > wrote:
> 
> > > All yours and others apparent desire to proclaim their
> > > awakenings as the same as MMY/TMO enlightenment is quite
> > > odd. Just pronounce what ever awakening one wants. Other
> > > than those that have requirements that one doesn't meet.
> > >
> > And as long as someone's definition or proclamation of
> > enlightenment doesn't fit your definition of what it should
> > be, you are 'SAFE'.
> 
> Boy, Jim, either you aren't getting what new morning
> is saying AT ALL, or you feel you're entitled to
> ignore it completely and substitute a completely
> different version of your own devising.
> 
> What he's saying makes perfect sense on its face; it's
> virtually a truism: to claim MMY-style enlightenment
> (not new morning's own definition), you need to meet
> the criteria MMY has set for it.
> 
> He's not saying there is no other style of enlightenment,
> or that if you don't meet the MMY criteria you aren't
> enlightened.
> 
> But that's how you seem to be interpreting what he
> writes, for no good reason that I can see.
>
I read what he writes. He is completely absolutely 100% incorrect to 
distinguish this fanciful 'MMY/TMO enlightenment' or 'MMY-style 
enlightenment' from other modes or styles of enlightenment. Only a 
mind in bondage would even concieve of such an abstraction. 
Enlightenment is enlightenment is enlightenment. Each of us 
experiences It differently, but It is the same thing.

There is no such thing as 'MMY/TMO style enlightenment' vs other 
styles of enlightenment. The idea is completely incorrect and 
rediculous! It is a stupid game he plays, who's only object is to 
disavow his own self-dissolution.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[kenwoodfx]

If you don`t, or don`t want to understand what I meant, then it`s also your decision.Those who want to understand, will understand. If someone doesn`t want, it is also OK.Anyway, I have tried to explain it to you, in my previous reply.For some time, I will not lose my time.You, and everyone else can write whatever you want.I had a good will to inspire more people to come in the Dome.Everyone will choose for themselves what they like.Let it be.I wish you all the best.dhamiltony2k5 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED].>   wrote: Is this the 'SIMS Shuffle' ? -JohnY  > >  > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kenwoodfx  wrote: > > > > It is, as anything else an individual decision.   Doug writing, yes a beautiful example of TM.movement non-answer. TM- Movement-Speak.   Part of the deal here is that we do live together in this community  and how the Tmorg acts and thinks does influence a lot of people  here, our friends and neighbors.  To just dismiss the real and say  it is all an individual decision begs the question: > What would > you suppose they would have to do in order to bring a more > significant number of people back? Would they come
 back? > Start with round numbers, a million TM meditators taught in the US, > with > some tens of thousands of TM teachers taught, some tens of thousands > people taught the TM0-sidhis (27K?); and a few hundreds show up when > called. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/104974 > > A lasting peace and reconciliation? Reconciling the numbers, what > would the TMOrg need do to reconcile > with its people? It had got pretty ugly in recent years, what could > the elements of a lasting peace and reconciliation for the TMorg > with its meditators? > > With Kind Regards, > > -Doug in FF >  This question above, what say the tru-believer reading the list? Have they no thot on this? How do the insiders going to the domes see it going? How
 about a defender of the faithful speaking for them? A public defender? What do they see it taking to bring a significant number back?
		Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the  all-new Yahoo! Mail.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[Sal Sunshine]

Ken,  all your silly rantings are going to accomplish is to show people 
how lucky they are *not* to be in the Domes...and castigating people 
for standing on principle by refusing to apply when others are still 
being rejected, shows an almost incredible lack of basic integrity.

Get a life.

Sal


On Aug 22, 2006, at 10:28 AM, kenwoodfx wrote:

>  If you don`t, or don`t want to understand what I meant, then it`s 
> also your decision.
> Those who want to understand, will understand. If someone doesn`t 
> want, it is also OK.
> Anyway, I have tried to explain it to you, in my previous reply.
> For some time, I will not lose my time.
> You, and everyone else can write whatever you want.
> I had a good will to inspire more people to come in the Dome.
> Everyone will choose for themselves what they like.
> Let it be.
> I wish you all the best.
>
>
>
> dhamiltony2k5 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:--- In 
> FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>  wrote: Is this the 'SIMS Shuffle' ?
>>  -JohnY
>>
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kenwoodfx  wrote:
>>  > >
>>  > > It is, as anything else an individual decision.
>>
>>  Doug writing, yes a beautiful example of TM.movement non-answer. TM-
>>  Movement-Speak.
>>  Part of the deal here is that we do live together in this community
>>  and how the Tmorg acts and thinks does influence a lot of people
>>  here, our friends and neighbors. To just dismiss the real and say
>>  it is all an individual decision begs the question:
>>  > What would
>>  > you suppose they would have to do in order to bring a more
>>  > significant number of people back? Would they come back?
>>  > Start with round numbers, a million TM meditators taught in the
>>  US,
>>  > with
>>  > some tens of thousands of TM teachers taught, some tens of
>>  thousands
>>  > people taught the TM0-sidhis (27K?); and a few hundreds show up
>>  when
>>  > called. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/104974
>>  >
>>  > A lasting peace and reconciliation? Reconciling the numbers, what
>>  > would the TMOrg need do to reconcile
>>  > with its people? It had got pretty ugly in recent years, what could
>>  > the elements of a lasting peace and reconciliation for the TMorg
>>  > with its meditators?
>>  >
>>  > With Kind Regards,
>>  >
>>  > -Doug in FF
>>  >
>>
>>  This question above, what say the tru-believer reading the list?
>>  Have they no thot on this? How do the insiders going to the domes
>>  see it going? How about a defender of the faithful speaking for
>>  them? A public defender? What do they see it taking to bring a
>>  significant number back?
>>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.  


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hmmm... saMdhi & samaadhi

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Do you do any FOREX trading?

Naw, I usually buy bullish shares near the apex
and am later forced to sell them cheap. :)
But lately I've prayed this gadget'll break through:

http://www.benefon.com/

It looks old-fashioned, but they say it's rather unique.
However, many experts believe that company shall go into receivership(?)
within a couple of months.











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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"
> >  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning
> >  
> > > wrote:
> > 
> > > > All yours and others apparent desire to proclaim
> > their
> > > > awakenings as the same as MMY/TMO enlightenment
> > is quite
> > > > odd. Just pronounce what ever awakening one
> > wants. Other
> > > > than those that have requirements that one
> > doesn't meet.
> > > >
> > > And as long as someone's definition or
> > proclamation of
> > > enlightenment doesn't fit your definition of what
> > it should
> > > be, you are 'SAFE'.
> > 
> > Boy, Jim, either you aren't getting what new morning
> > is saying AT ALL, or you feel you're entitled to
> > ignore it completely and substitute a completely
> > different version of your own devising.
> > 
> > What he's saying makes perfect sense on its face;
> > it's
> > virtually a truism: to claim MMY-style enlightenment
> > (not new morning's own definition), you need to meet
> > the criteria MMY has set for it.
> > 
> > He's not saying there is no other style of
> > enlightenment,
> > or that if you don't meet the MMY criteria you
> > aren't
> > enlightened.
> > 
> > But that's how you seem to be interpreting what he
> > writes, for no good reason that I can see.
> 
> 
> Pray tell, do we or is there a consensus on MMY style
> enlightenment? 

Clearly there is a concensus on what the TMO and MMY consider
enlightenment by the one person who counts: MMY. And probably a clear
concensus among TMO administrators and researchers. 

My sole point is that it is the perogative for MMY and the TMO to
define, list manifest attributes of, and confirm TMO/MMY style
enlightenemnt however they deem appropriate. 

For someone to claim TMO/MMY style enlightenment without such TMO /
and or MMY confirmation is fraud. Its like selling a watch as a Rolex
when its not. (Not to imply a bias that TM/MMY enlightenemt is
superior.) Or its like someone claiming to be a board ceertified
psychoanalyst when the have not passed the requirments set by the
board authorized to give that title.

I fail to see why this is a hard concept for some to comprehend.

Peter, whether there is a concensus about what TMO / MMY style
enlightenment on this list, amongst your peers or network, is
interesting -- but irrelevant as far as confirming someones TMO / MMY
style enlightenment. That is the TMO and MMY's sole perogative.


> I've always seen it as MMY
> giving us a conceptual tool kit so one doesn't have a
> heart attack when the domain of Realization is
> breached and most of the tools fall out of the
> toolbox.

OK. fine. That does not in any way effect the above stated perogative
and right of the TMO to define, list manifest attributes of, and
confirm TMO/MMY style enlightenemnt how ever it deems appropriate. 

Since there is a lot of extra stuff floating in peoples mind, that
when reading posts, in their minds appear to glob on and distort in
their minds what a poster says.  They read a post with assumptions
about what the poster means, not what he/she is actually saying. Let
me be clear. The above statements do NOT translate, imply, infer or
mean any of the following statments (that some have oddly seen in my
posts):

- No one is enlightened. 
- MMY/ TMO style of enlightenement is superior to other awakenings,
enlightenments or spiritual development
- No other enlightenments or awakenings exist
- MMY/ TMO style of enlightenement is different from all others. 

(It may be, or may not be. It clearly is different from some -- given
that MMY "requires" clear sidhis for his confirmation of TMO / MMY
style of enlightenment.)
 
- That i am dismising the proclaimed enlightenment of others or
claiming all such claimants are phonies.
- that I am ridiculing those that claim some awakening or
enlightenment based on thier own criteria or another teachers 

(This latter point however does not imply that I blindly buy into any
and all claims -- particularly if there is a strong disconnet between
claimed attributes and thier activity.)

Again the above list of points CANNOT be found, implied or properly
inferred from my primary points in the first part of this post.

My sole point, oddly, yet apparently incomprehnsible to some, is that:

MMY and the TMO have the perogative and right to define, list manifest
attributes of, and confirm TMO/MMY style enlightenemnt however they
deem appropriate.  For someone to claim TMO/MMY style enlightenemnt
without such TMO/MMY confirmation is fradulant. And sad.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000"  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >Maybe  Maharishi isn't fully convinced about the
> > > > > physiological
> > > > > correlates either. Otherwise he would get wired up
> > > > > and provide a
> > > > > baseline to speed up the research.
> > > >
> > > > Physiological correlates would only relate to
> > > > conditions of the mind. And there are many, many
> > > > conditions of the mind from gross to very, very
> > > > subtle.  But I don't know if any "physiological
> > > > correlate" of Realization will ever be established.
> > > > Consciousness is "outside" of time and space. The mind
> > > > can not quantify it; measure it. From the perspective
> > > > of the mind, pure consciousness is absolutely nothing;
> > > > emptiness; death; annihilation. Perhaps the best that
> > > > could be done would be the impact on brain function of
> > > > that Realization. But would there be a common EEG
> > > > signature for all brains? I don't know. Right now I
> > > > doubt it. It would be interesting to take MMY, Amma
> > > > and SSRS and look at the similarities and
> > > > disimilarities of their brain functioning. I'm curious
> > > > what Fred Travis has come up with correlating specific
> > > > enlightenment experiences with EEG function on the TM
> > > > path (because I'm sure it would vary depending upon
> > > > the path/techniques).
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Even if Fred used others, he would have to depend on the grokking
> > > of MMY, Amma, and SSRS or someone to give the nod to the folks used
> > > to establish the baseline signature. Have to start somewhere.
> > > 
> > 
> > Actually, Fred asked for volunteers who were reporting long-term
> 24/7 witnessing. He 
> > interviewed them and found correlations between how they reported
> their internal 
> > perception of "self" and their EEG and other physiological measures:
> > 
> > http://www.brainresearchinstitute.org/research/ConcCog2004.pdf
> > 
> > > Can't help comparing Earl's question to MMY about why he doesn't
> > > establish a group, when I think about this  The EEG stuff is
> > > good PR and grant getting material.
> > 
> > Again, which state? And, while perhaps I misremember the original
> letter, my recollection 
> > is that Kaplan reported MMY as saying "there is no evidence that
> what you say would 
> > happen would happen." Kaplan took this to be referring to the ME. I
> took it to be referring 
> > to financial support from a grateful world...
> >
> 
> Anything CC or above would be satisfactory for measurement puposes if
> they were looking for 'stable' patterns . 
> 
> "This version of my story really starts about three years ago.  I was
> sitting with Maharishi privately, because at the time I had an open
> invitation to come to Vlodrop and sit with Mahesh whenever I wanted
> to.  At that time I knew that Mahesh had many tens of millions of
> dollars, the money he needed to create a 10,000 group.  He was talking
> about building big buildings, buying airlines, etc. etc.  I said,
> Maharishi, since you have the money and supposedly you have enough
> pundits, why don't you create a 10,000 group in India and then the
> world will experience peace and the TM movement will gain great
> support of the laws of nature and our other activities will work out. 
> Mahesh looked at me like I was crazy and said "Earl, if we created the
> group  then we don't know if it would create world peace or not.  We
> would have to have the group and then see what the effect it has."
> 
> Earl Kaplans Letter 04/16/2004 
> 
> Both Earl and Maharishi refer to creating world peace not wether the 
> the world would support it finacially after the fact.


My recollection of the letter is different than what is now displayed. Perhaps 
my 
recollection is wrong or perhaps that is tidied up from his original comments.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hmmm... saMdhi & samaadhi

[curtisdeltablues]

Thanks for answering.  It looks interesting, I will watch the videos.
 I have a friend who is trying to crack FOREX trading and he seems to
be making some progress in a difficult field.  But his life has taken
on the charactor of a "tweeker" with his ADD-like attention to the
markets.  I am studying some stuff from a FOREX trainer and trader
named Raghee Horner http://raghee.com/  She has some good materials
and seems to be more grounded than many get-rich-quick currency
traders.  It still seems like an area that can hand you your own ass
in no time!   Good luck with Benefon.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > Do you do any FOREX trading?
> 
> Naw, I usually buy bullish shares near the apex
> and am later forced to sell them cheap. :)
> But lately I've prayed this gadget'll break through:
> 
> http://www.benefon.com/
> 
> It looks old-fashioned, but they say it's rather unique.
> However, many experts believe that company shall go into receivership(?)
> within a couple of months.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[new . morning]

What is really odd and funny, if not delusional, is that we are asked
to suspend disbelief and support the notion that Jim who has such poor
comprehension skills, and who regularly makes cognitive errors, is
able to clearly interpret his experiences, and self-proclaim himself
as in BC. 

As posters, and classic commentators, have pointed out is that
misinterpreation of initial or minor experiences can be incorrectly
interpreted as high / highest states (such hierarchies continue to
make me laugh -- but for the sake of discussion ...).  For example,
Rick made an articulate comment on this yesterday. 

[Apparently,] Avoiding this pitfall, is amongst the reasons  i)
development of a clear intellect -- and, ii) the confirmation of a
teacher, an unbiased objective sourse --  are called for in various
traditions, classic literature -- and the TMO --  before proclaimming
enlightenment. Some traditions, tibetian buddhism apparently, think
proclamation of ones state, even with such clear intellect and teacher
confirmation, is rather silly and even harmful.

That someone stumbling around, barley able to comprehend and reference
what they have read with any accuracy, hardly fits the profile of one
qualified for "self-proclamation". 

But anything is possible. If wearing the "crown" of TMO/MMY style of
enlightenment is really important for someone (odd and funny that it
would be) then go to the domes and get your long sought and cherished
confirmation. 



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  
> > > wrote:
> > 
> > > > All yours and others apparent desire to proclaim their
> > > > awakenings as the same as MMY/TMO enlightenment is quite
> > > > odd. Just pronounce what ever awakening one wants. Other
> > > > than those that have requirements that one doesn't meet.
> > > >
> > > And as long as someone's definition or proclamation of
> > > enlightenment doesn't fit your definition of what it should
> > > be, you are 'SAFE'.
> > 
> > Boy, Jim, either you aren't getting what new morning
> > is saying AT ALL, or you feel you're entitled to
> > ignore it completely and substitute a completely
> > different version of your own devising.
> > 
> > What he's saying makes perfect sense on its face; it's
> > virtually a truism: to claim MMY-style enlightenment
> > (not new morning's own definition), you need to meet
> > the criteria MMY has set for it.
> > 
> > He's not saying there is no other style of enlightenment,
> > or that if you don't meet the MMY criteria you aren't
> > enlightened.
> > 
> > But that's how you seem to be interpreting what he
> > writes, for no good reason that I can see.
> >
> 
> 
> Agreed Judy. Its rather sad the pattern:
> 
> Jim has learned to parrot a particular catechism -- which has a heavy
> Tom/Rory flavor, IMO -- but has no clue as to how to apply it in the
> real world. Consistent with your points, the catechism points bear
> little or no relvance or correspondence to what I have written. 
> 
> Jim's cognitive disabilities, noted periodically over the past 6
> months, contine to unravel. His responses to what he has read reflect
> near zero reading comprehension skills. Based on his perfomances here,
> given a paragraph or two, and asked to summarize or answer questions
> about what he has read (as is commonly done on achievement and skill
> level tests), he would fail miserably.
> 
> For a so-called liberated, to be so over-shodowed with rote talking
> points that even the smallest stimulus triggers them -- while 
> similtaneously the trigger apparently also overrides or shuts down
> rational facilities, is ironic. And its sad to see the diminishment of
> any human being.  Yet from 5000 feet, as characture of bliss-ninny
> delusions  -- its amusing.
> 
> He is hardly a walking advertisment for "liberation". More an
> advertisment for the possible dangers of sustained practice of
> neuro-physiological techniques for self-development.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My recollection of the letter is different than what is now
> displayed. Perhaps my recollection is wrong or perhaps that
> is tidied up from his original comments.

With the vastly improved search function, you should have no problem
finding it in the FFL archives as it was originally posted. It may
have also been posted to a.m.t around the same time.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pray tell, do we or is there a consensus on MMY style
> enlightenment?

Clearly there is a concensus on what the TMO and MMY consider
enlightenment by the one person who counts: MMY. And probably a clear
concensus among TMO administrators and researchers.

My sole point is that it is the perogative for MMY and the TMO to
define, list manifest attributes of, and confirm TMO/MMY style
enlightenemnt however they deem appropriate.

For someone to claim TMO/MMY style enlightenment without such TMO /
and or MMY confirmation is fraud. Its like selling a watch as a Rolex
when its not. (Not to imply a bias that TM/MMY enlightenemt is
superior.) Or its like someone claiming to be a board ceertified
psychoanalyst when the have not passed the requirments set by the
board authorized to give that title.

I fail to see why this is a hard concept for some to comprehend.

Peter, whether there is a concensus about what TMO / MMY style
enlightenment on this list, amongst your peers or network, is
interesting -- but irrelevant as far as confirming someones TMO / MMY
style enlightenment. That is the TMO and MMY's sole perogative.


> I've always seen it as MMY
> giving us a conceptual tool kit so one doesn't have a
> heart attack when the domain of Realization is
> breached and most of the tools fall out of the
> toolbox.

OK. fine. That does not in any way effect the above stated perogative
and right of the TMO to define, list manifest attributes of, and
confirm TMO/MMY style enlightenemnt how ever it deems appropriate.

Since there is a lot of extra stuff floating in peoples mind, that
when reading posts, in their minds appear to glob on and distort in
their minds what a poster says. They read a post with assumptions
about what the poster means, not what he/she is actually saying. Let
me be clear. The above statements do NOT translate, imply, infer or
mean any of the following statments (that some have oddly seen in my
posts):

- No one is enlightened.
- MMY/ TMO style of enlightenement is superior to other awakenings,
enlightenments or spiritual development
- No other enlightenments or awakenings exist
- MMY/ TMO style of enlightenement is different from all others.

(It may be, or may not be. It clearly is different from some -- given
that MMY "requires" clear sidhis for his confirmation of TMO / MMY
style of enlightenment.)

- That i am dismising the proclaimed enlightenment of others or
claiming all such claimants are phonies.
- that I am ridiculing those that claim some awakening or
enlightenment based on thier own criteria or another teachers

(This latter point however does not imply that I blindly buy into any
and all claims -- particularly if there is a strong disconnet between
claimed attributes and thier activity.)

Again the above list of points CANNOT be found, implied or properly
inferred from my primary points in the first part of this post.

My sole point, oddly, yet apparently incomprehnsible to some, is that:

MMY and the TMO have the perogative and right to define, list manifest
attributes of, and confirm TMO/MMY style enlightenemnt however they
deem appropriate. For someone to claim TMO/MMY style enlightenemnt
without such TMO/MMY confirmation is fradulant. And sad.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> What is really odd and funny, if not delusional, is that we are asked
> to suspend disbelief and support the notion that Jim who has such 
poor
> comprehension skills, and who regularly makes cognitive errors, is
> able to clearly interpret his experiences, and self-proclaim himself
> as in BC. 

Speaking of comprehension and delusion, who is asking you to suspend 
disbelief, etc. and accept anything I say? Another foolish game you 
play.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
> wrote:
> 
> > It's kinda the same answer I give when people ask me whether the 
> > mantras used in TM are the names of gods: I wouldn't want to 
> > practise a meditation that DIDN'T use mantras that were the names 
> > of gods
> 
> Better quit practicing TM, then, and find one that does.
>


I've got an SRM book from about 1966 -- pre Beatles -- that has MMY 
say exactly that.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> 
> > My recollection of the letter is different than what is now
> > displayed. Perhaps my recollection is wrong or perhaps that
> > is tidied up from his original comments.
> 
> With the vastly improved search function, you should have no problem
> finding it in the FFL archives as it was originally posted. It may
> have also been posted to a.m.t around the same time.
>

I can't ind an earlier version than the one posted recently. I must have 
misread.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  
wrote:
> > >
> > > on 8/21/06 6:38 PM, sparaig at sparaig@ wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >  > comment by
> > > > him:
> > > > 
> > > He never claimed to be in any higher state of consciousness, 
but he 
> > implied
> > > that he had attained them all, by speaking on them 
authoritatively.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I myself wouldn't practise a technique of self-development in 
which 
> > the figurehead wasn't in at least the highest attainable state.
> > 
> > It's kinda the same answer I give when people ask me whether the 
> > mantras used in TM are the names of gods: I wouldn't want to 
practise 
> > a meditation that DIDN'T use mantras that were the names of gods
> >
> 
> 
> Better not do TM then...


You mean like you?



> 
> BTW, my experience has been that my ability to 
know/cognize/perceive/whatever MMY's 
> state of consciousness has little to do with the effects of TM.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > It's kinda the same answer I give when people ask me whether the 
> > > mantras used in TM are the names of gods: I wouldn't want to 
> > > practise a meditation that DIDN'T use mantras that were the names 
> > > of gods
> > 
> > Better quit practicing TM, then, and find one that does.
> >
> 
> 
> I've got an SRM book from about 1966 -- pre Beatles -- that has MMY 
> say exactly that.
>

Something other than the Beacon book?









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > It's kinda the same answer I give when people ask me whether 
> > > the mantras used in TM are the names of gods: I wouldn't want 
> > > to practise a meditation that DIDN'T use mantras that were the 
> > > names of gods
> > 
> > Better quit practicing TM, then, and find one that does.
> 
> I've got an SRM book from about 1966 -- pre Beatles -- that has MMY 
> say exactly that.

Quote, please.

That's what folks claim he said in his Beacon Light
address too, but he didn't.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
 wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > 
> > > My recollection of the letter is different than what is now
> > > displayed. Perhaps my recollection is wrong or perhaps that
> > > is tidied up from his original comments.
> > 
> > With the vastly improved search function, you should have no problem
> > finding it in the FFL archives as it was originally posted. It may
> > have also been posted to a.m.t around the same time.
> 
> I can't ind an earlier version than the one posted recently. I must 
> have misread.

Someone here posted recently that there had been a 
"draft" version in circulation that was cleaned up
considerably in what became the final version.

Whether the "draft" version has ever been posted
here or on alt.m.t or some other TM-related group
is another question entirely.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Irmeli Mattsson]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
 wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  wrote:
> > >
> > > on 8/21/06 3:11 PM, sparaig at sparaig@ wrote:
> > > 
> > > >> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > >> 
> > > >> > , "curtisdeltablues"  wrote:
> > > >>> >> 
> > > >>> >> My prediction is that anyone who gets on the "enlightened"
> > list will
> > > >>> >> be banned from future courses.  MMY's organization is not
> > built for
> > > >>> >> people who claim to have reached the goal. The "only one
> > beard in the
> > > >>> >> room" rule still applies.  Am I wrong?
> > > >>> >> 
> > > >> > 
> > > >> > That's why Fred Travis has been able to publish physiological
> > studies on
> > > >> > people who reported
> > > >> > witnessing 24/7 for years on end: they're afraid to step
forward...
> > > > 
> > > Fred was very condescending and dismissive of an Awake friend
> > > of mine whose brain waves didn¹t happen to match Fred¹s
> > > expectations.
> > 
> > Where did TMO folks get the idea that being awake/enlightened is a
> > measurable, dualistic phenomenon?
> >
> 
> 
> From the idea that enlightened states of consciousness are STATES OF
CONSCIOUSNESS, 
> complete with physiological styles of functioning.
>

I'm curious, is there any observation of people losing their
enlightened  brainwave pattern, when  they get old and senile, and
hence also having lost their TMO style enlightenment. People's
brainfuctioning generally deteriorate, when they get old. MMY's
behavior has for some time shown clear signs of his deteroriating
brainfunctioning (which is of course natural considering his
respectably high age).

Irmeli






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[FairfieldLife] Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[new . morning]

I thought this post relevant to FFL because a lot of people in FF, and
TMOers, present, and former actives, listen to music. And have
listened to and admired Bob Dylan. (Does this meet the Doug test for
explaining relevancy?)

And so many Dylan lines are relevant to the themes of FFL. A few that
come to mind:

"Something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you Mr. Jones?"

"She knows too much to argue or to judge."

"An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing."

"I am younger than that now"

"Time will tell who as fell, and who has been left behind, when you go
your way and I go mine." 

"I pity the poor immigrant whose strength is spent in vain,"

"All along the watchtower, princes [and rajas[ kept the view "

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
there's too much confusion, I can't get no relief."

"Ezra Pound and TS Elliot, fighting in the captain's tower, while
calypso singers laugh at them And fishermen hold flowers"


Great comentaries could be written on these sutras -- unfolding great
truths.
==



LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Bob Dylan says modern recordings sound
"atrocious," and even the songs on his new album sounded much better
in the studio than on disc.
Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

"I don't know anybody who's made a record that sounds decent in the
past twenty years, really," the 65-year-old rocker said in an
interview with Rolling Stone magazine.

Dylan, who released eight studio albums in that time, returns with his
first recording in five years, "Modern Times," next Tuesday.

Noting the music industry's complaints that illegal downloading means
people are getting their music for free, he said, "Well, why not? It
ain't worth nothing anyway."

"You listen to these modern records, they're atrocious, they have
sound all over them," he added. "There's no definition of nothing, no
vocal, no nothing, just like ... static."

Dylan said he does his best to fight technology, but it's a losing battle.

"Even these songs probably sounded ten times better in the studio when
we recorded 'em. CDs are small. There's no stature to it."






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Paul Mason]

In 'Meditation: easy system propounded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi' 
(c1959) there is to be found a series of questions which includes the 
following:
Q. How does meditation improve the fortune of a man?
A. Our system of meditation involves the All Mighty Power. We take 
the 'MANTRA' of some God according to our faith and meditate on that. 
The power of the 'MANTRA' brings to us the Almighty




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
>  
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > It's kinda the same answer I give when people ask me whether 
> > > > the mantras used in TM are the names of gods: I wouldn't want 
> > > > to practise a meditation that DIDN'T use mantras that were 
the 
> > > > names of gods
> > > 
> > > Better quit practicing TM, then, and find one that does.
> > 
> > I've got an SRM book from about 1966 -- pre Beatles -- that has 
MMY 
> > say exactly that.
> 
> Quote, please.
> 
> That's what folks claim he said in his Beacon Light
> address too, but he didn't.
>







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[FairfieldLife] go beyond the mind experiences in meditation seeing light @ Amritapuri.org

[Rick Archer]

http://www.amritapuri.org/amma/2006/607beyondmind.php




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[curtisdeltablues]

What a cranky old fart!  Modern music is worthless. I really enjoy his
lyrics and his recent autobiography is worth reading. But he is so
bizarre.

BTW I think you can run the posting relevance proof like the Kevin
Bacon game.  Dylan gave the Beatles their first weed.  The Beatles got
MMY into the newspapers.  Done in two steps!


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I thought this post relevant to FFL because a lot of people in FF, and
> TMOers, present, and former actives, listen to music. And have
> listened to and admired Bob Dylan. (Does this meet the Doug test for
> explaining relevancy?)
> 
> And so many Dylan lines are relevant to the themes of FFL. A few that
> come to mind:
> 
> "Something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you Mr.
Jones?"
> 
> "She knows too much to argue or to judge."
> 
> "An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing."
> 
> "I am younger than that now"
> 
> "Time will tell who as fell, and who has been left behind, when you go
> your way and I go mine." 
> 
> "I pity the poor immigrant whose strength is spent in vain,"
> 
> "All along the watchtower, princes [and rajas[ kept the view "
> 
> "There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
> there's too much confusion, I can't get no relief."
> 
> "Ezra Pound and TS Elliot, fighting in the captain's tower, while
> calypso singers laugh at them And fishermen hold flowers"
> 
> 
> Great comentaries could be written on these sutras -- unfolding great
> truths.
> ==
> 
> 
> 
> LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Bob Dylan says modern recordings sound
> "atrocious," and even the songs on his new album sounded much better
> in the studio than on disc.
> Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless
> 
> "I don't know anybody who's made a record that sounds decent in the
> past twenty years, really," the 65-year-old rocker said in an
> interview with Rolling Stone magazine.
> 
> Dylan, who released eight studio albums in that time, returns with his
> first recording in five years, "Modern Times," next Tuesday.
> 
> Noting the music industry's complaints that illegal downloading means
> people are getting their music for free, he said, "Well, why not? It
> ain't worth nothing anyway."
> 
> "You listen to these modern records, they're atrocious, they have
> sound all over them," he added. "There's no definition of nothing, no
> vocal, no nothing, just like ... static."
> 
> Dylan said he does his best to fight technology, but it's a losing
battle.
> 
> "Even these songs probably sounded ten times better in the studio when
> we recorded 'em. CDs are small. There's no stature to it."
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  wrote:
> >
> > What is really odd and funny, if not delusional, is that we are asked
> > to suspend disbelief and support the notion that Jim who has such 
> poor
> > comprehension skills, and who regularly makes cognitive errors, is
> > able to clearly interpret his experiences, and self-proclaim himself
> > as in BC. 
> 
> Speaking of comprehension and delusion, who is asking you to suspend 
> disbelief, etc. and accept anything I say? Another foolish game you 
> play.

OK. Fair enough. I thought you had earlier proclaimed to be in BC (as
defined by MMY). Is that an incorrect memory? Are you claiming that
you do not beleive you are in BC (as defined by MMY)? If you don't
deny it, its hardly a huge gaff to state "we are asked to believe...".

Regardless, if you did not explicity claim to be in BC (as defined by
MMY) you have implied it, IMO, by making strong definitive statements
about it. 

I asked you in a post a day or so ago, paraphrasing "Is this your
personal experience (of BC), or are you simply speculating or
remembering something from your SCI or other course?" You danced
around that, coyly IMO, which to me further supported the implication
of your belief. Any humble person not prolaiming BC would have
clarified the point right away.

So to be most accurate, I should have said, "we are asked to believe,
BY IMPLICATION ...". [insertion in caps]

Sorry such a minor ommission disturbed your world.

I do note that I have raised a number of substantive points about your
explicit or implied claims of being in BC and/or MMY/TMO style
enlightenment, and you have been unable or unwilling to address them.
Rather you solely focussed on minor points, diversions or ad honimen
fallacies. I assume this  represents the most cogent case you can make
regarding my points. If not, I will relist them if you like so yuo can
respond.

Or if you do not claim to be in some TMO/MMY style of enlightenemnt,
simple state so, please correct my misunderstanding or false inference. 

By the way, terming this a "game", isn't a particularly strong
rebuttal.  Perhaps such a rebuttal is substantive in your mind, but
its not in the real world. 

And its odd you see this as a game -- but perhaps such a percption
supports the notion that this is all make believe for you. 





If you did not explicity state it.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> 
> > > Again, which state? And, while perhaps I misremember the original
> > > letter, my recollection is that Kaplan reported MMY as 
> > > saying "there is no evidence that what you say would 
> > > happen would happen." Kaplan took this to be referring
> > > to the ME. I took it to be referring to financial support
> > > from a grateful world...
>  
> > 
> > "This version of my story really starts about three years ago.  I 
> > was sitting with Maharishi privately, because at the time I had an 
> > open invitation to come to Vlodrop and sit with Mahesh whenever I 
> > wanted to.  At that time I knew that Mahesh had many tens of 
> > millions of dollars, the money he needed to create a 10,000 group.  
> > He was talking about building big buildings, buying airlines, etc. 
> > etc.  I said, Maharishi, since you have the money and supposedly 
> > you have enough pundits, why don't you create a 10,000 group in 
> > India and then the world will experience peace and the TM movement 
> > will gain great support of the laws of nature and our other 
> > activities will work out. Mahesh looked at me like I was crazy and 
> > said "Earl, if we created the group  then we don't know if it would 
> > create world peace or not.  We would have to have the group and 
> > then see what the effect it has."
> > 
> > Earl Kaplans Letter 04/16/2004 
> > 
> > Both Earl and Maharishi refer to creating world peace not wether
> > the the world would support it finacially after the fact.
> 
> In that version of the letter.  There has apparently
> been more than one, as reported here; supposedly
> a draft got into circulation before Kaplan thought
> it was ready.  Above Lawson refers to "the original
> version."  Does he mean the draft, the first version
> that was circulated?
> 
> If so, and if the quote Lawson remembers is accurate,
> Kaplan may have "revised" it in the later version to
> make what *he* understood MMY to be saying more explicit.
> 
> Editorial analysis:
> 
> The version you quote seems incomplete somehow. It's
> not clear why MMY would make such a statement and
> consider the matter closed.  The natural response
> would be, "So why not create the group and see what
> happens?"  But that question isn't asked.
> 
> In the version Lawson cites, MMY's comment seems to
> complete the exchange, in the context of the various
> money-making endeavors they were talking about.  Kaplan
> suggests that instead of doing all this other stuff to
> support the movement, MMY should create the pundit group,
> and that in itself will be all that is needed to keep the
> movement going indefinitely because *everybody* would
> then support the movement.
> 
> But, in Lawson's verison, MMY responds that there's no
> evidence it would have that effect, i.e., that everyone
> would support the movement, implying that the TMO needs
> to establish solid financial foundation first before
> blowing the movement's existing resources on 
> establishing the group.  Once that's accomplished,
> then the group can be established and it won't matter
> whether anyone else supports the movement.
> 
> Obviously we'd need to find the "original" draft version
> and see if Lawson's memory of how MMY is quoted is
> accurate.  But if it is, that version seems to me to
> make more sense just in terms of the conversation
> itself.  It would also be consistent with everything
> else MMY has been doing and saying.
> 
> One other point: at the time of this conversation,
> there had been several large-scale tests of the
> Maharishi Effect, with published studies of the
> purportedly positive results (in particular the
> Jerusalem and D.C. gatherings).  MMY clearly felt
> the ME had been documented (whether or not it had
> been), but there wasn't the outpouring of support
> from the world that he had initially expected.
> 
> So in that context as well, the quote Lawson remembers
> makes more sense: from MMY's perspective, there *was*
> evidence that the ME worked, but there was no evidence
> that the world would recognize it and decide to support
> the movement.
>

I probably have the original version that was posted here. I'll look.
My recollection is that the implication of that version is the same.
But I'll check to see if I have it. Or it's in the archive of this group. 


JohnY






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> What a cranky old fart!  

Me or Bob? :)
> 
> BTW I think you can run the posting relevance proof like the Kevin
> Bacon game.  Dylan gave the Beatles their first weed.  The Beatles
got  MMY into the newspapers.  Done in two steps! 

haha good one.


For future posts: 

Maria Sharapova: Russian: Beatles song Back in the USSR: Beatles got
MMY in the newspapers. 

or 

Maria Sharapova: Goddess: TM mantras

:)

 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> > What a cranky old fart!  
> 
> Me or Bob? :)
> > 
> > BTW I think you can run the posting relevance proof like the 
Kevin
> > Bacon game.  Dylan gave the Beatles their first weed.  The 
Beatles
> got  MMY into the newspapers.  Done in two steps! 
> 
> haha good one.
> 
> 
> For future posts: 
> 
> Maria Sharapova: Russian: Beatles song Back in the USSR: Beatles 
got
> MMY in the newspapers. 
> 
> or 
> 
> Maria Sharapova: Goddess: TM mantras
> 
> :)
>

Maria Sharapova: Schwing! : pedophilia: JonBenet: False confession







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences





on 8/22/06 9:11 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

What he's saying makes perfect sense on its face; it's
virtually a truism: to claim MMY-style enlightenment
(not new morning's own definition), you need to meet
the criteria MMY has set for it.

Did I ever say that the people I was referring to were claiming MMY-style enlightenment? Seems to me they are saying they’ve woken up, and are happy to use any terminology that helps to describe their experience. MMY’s often does, and they have that background, so they often use it. But just as often, they use other terminology if it’s more suitable.  


__._,_.___





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__,_._,___

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> What a cranky old fart!  Modern music is worthless. I really enjoy 
his
> lyrics and his recent autobiography is worth reading. But he is so
> bizarre.



You say you enjoy his lyrics.

You didn't say you liked his singing.

I find this prejudicial against the singers-who-sound-like-they-are-
cats-in-heat demographic.



> 
> BTW I think you can run the posting relevance proof like the Kevin
> Bacon game.  Dylan gave the Beatles their first weed.  The Beatles 
got
> MMY into the newspapers.  Done in two steps!
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  
wrote:
> >
> > I thought this post relevant to FFL because a lot of people in 
FF, and
> > TMOers, present, and former actives, listen to music. And have
> > listened to and admired Bob Dylan. (Does this meet the Doug test 
for
> > explaining relevancy?)
> > 
> > And so many Dylan lines are relevant to the themes of FFL. A few 
that
> > come to mind:
> > 
> > "Something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you 
Mr.
> Jones?"
> > 
> > "She knows too much to argue or to judge."
> > 
> > "An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing."
> > 
> > "I am younger than that now"
> > 
> > "Time will tell who as fell, and who has been left behind, when 
you go
> > your way and I go mine." 
> > 
> > "I pity the poor immigrant whose strength is spent in vain,"
> > 
> > "All along the watchtower, princes [and rajas[ kept the view "
> > 
> > "There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the 
thief,
> > there's too much confusion, I can't get no relief."
> > 
> > "Ezra Pound and TS Elliot, fighting in the captain's tower, while
> > calypso singers laugh at them And fishermen hold flowers"
> > 
> > 
> > Great comentaries could be written on these sutras -- unfolding 
great
> > truths.
> > ==
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Bob Dylan says modern recordings sound
> > "atrocious," and even the songs on his new album sounded much 
better
> > in the studio than on disc.
> > Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless
> > 
> > "I don't know anybody who's made a record that sounds decent in 
the
> > past twenty years, really," the 65-year-old rocker said in an
> > interview with Rolling Stone magazine.
> > 
> > Dylan, who released eight studio albums in that time, returns 
with his
> > first recording in five years, "Modern Times," next Tuesday.
> > 
> > Noting the music industry's complaints that illegal downloading 
means
> > people are getting their music for free, he said, "Well, why 
not? It
> > ain't worth nothing anyway."
> > 
> > "You listen to these modern records, they're atrocious, they have
> > sound all over them," he added. "There's no definition of 
nothing, no
> > vocal, no nothing, just like ... static."
> > 
> > Dylan said he does his best to fight technology, but it's a 
losing
> battle.
> > 
> > "Even these songs probably sounded ten times better in the 
studio when
> > we recorded 'em. CDs are small. There's no stature to it."
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] "All Blasphemies do not end up as great truths"

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "All great truths begin as Blasphemies"
> -George Bernard Shaw

"All Blasphemies do not end up as great truths"
 - Common Sense and Ovious observation
 
"All conspiracy theories not end up as great truths"
 - ibid

Odd, that some stumble on obvious and common sense.










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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences





on 8/22/06 12:34 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I probably have the original version that was posted here. I'll look.
My recollection is that the implication of that version is the same.
But I'll check to see if I have it. Or it's in the archive of this group. 

It’s in the files section.

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__,_._,___

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[curtisdeltablues]

Nice inclusion of our girl through the Beatles! I think we have the
relevance issue handled. Maria Sharapova might make the top 10
Istadevas list also.  In fact, anytime the divine wants to appear to
me in this form, I will go back to practicing the eyes-closed stuff!


> > 
> > BTW I think you can run the posting relevance proof like the Kevin
> > Bacon game.  Dylan gave the Beatles their first weed.  The Beatles
> got  MMY into the newspapers.  Done in two steps! 
> 
> haha good one.
> 
> 
> For future posts: 
> 
> Maria Sharapova: Russian: Beatles song Back in the USSR: Beatles got
> MMY in the newspapers. 
> 
> or 
> 
> Maria Sharapova: Goddess: TM mantras
> 
> :)
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
>  
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > It's kinda the same answer I give when people ask me whether 
> > > > the mantras used in TM are the names of gods: I wouldn't 
want 
> > > > to practise a meditation that DIDN'T use mantras that were 
the 
> > > > names of gods
> > > 
> > > Better quit practicing TM, then, and find one that does.
> > 
> > I've got an SRM book from about 1966 -- pre Beatles -- that has 
MMY 
> > say exactly that.
> 
> Quote, please.
> 





"All the mantras I teach in TM are the names of Hindu gods and I 
don't care what Alan Dershowitz or the Superior Court of New Jersey 
says about it!"
 -- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, March 7, 1966.





> That's what folks claim he said in his Beacon Light
> address too, but he didn't.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: "All Blasphemies do not end up as great truths"

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  wrote:
> >
> > "All great truths begin as Blasphemies"
> > -George Bernard Shaw
> 
> "All Blasphemies do not end up as great truths"
>  - Common Sense and Ovious observation
>  
> "All conspiracy theories not end up as great truths"
>  - ibid
> 
> Odd, that some stumble on obvious and common sense.
>


Major Barbara was a hot babe for her time.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
>  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > on 8/21/06 3:11 PM, sparaig at sparaig@ wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > >> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> > , "curtisdeltablues"  wrote:
> > > > >>> >> 
> > > > >>> >> My prediction is that anyone who gets on the "enlightened"
> > > list will
> > > > >>> >> be banned from future courses.  MMY's organization is not
> > > built for
> > > > >>> >> people who claim to have reached the goal. The "only one
> > > beard in the
> > > > >>> >> room" rule still applies.  Am I wrong?
> > > > >>> >> 
> > > > >> > 
> > > > >> > That's why Fred Travis has been able to publish physiological
> > > studies on
> > > > >> > people who reported
> > > > >> > witnessing 24/7 for years on end: they're afraid to step
> forward...
> > > > > 
> > > > Fred was very condescending and dismissive of an Awake friend
> > > > of mine whose brain waves didn¹t happen to match Fred¹s
> > > > expectations.
> > > 
> > > Where did TMO folks get the idea that being awake/enlightened is a
> > > measurable, dualistic phenomenon?
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > From the idea that enlightened states of consciousness are STATES OF
> CONSCIOUSNESS, 
> > complete with physiological styles of functioning.
> >
> 
> I'm curious, is there any observation of people losing their
> enlightened  brainwave pattern, when  they get old and senile, and
> hence also having lost their TMO style enlightenment. People's
> brainfuctioning generally deteriorate, when they get old. MMY's
> behavior has for some time shown clear signs of his deteroriating
> brainfunctioning (which is of course natural considering his
> respectably high age).
> 
> Irmeli
>

Actually, brain-functioning doesn't deteriorate all that much just because you 
get old, and 
MMY doesn't show any signs of a stroke that I can see. Would you ask if people 
lose the 
ability to sleep or dream just because they got old?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> In 'Meditation: easy system propounded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi' 
> (c1959) there is to be found a series of questions which includes the 
> following:
> Q. How does meditation improve the fortune of a man?
> A. Our system of meditation involves the All Mighty Power. We take 
> the 'MANTRA' of some God according to our faith and meditate on that. 
> The power of the 'MANTRA' brings to us the Almighty
> 
> 

All Mighty Power sounds  like a rough translation of Ishvara (sp) from 
Patanjali. 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> >  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > It's kinda the same answer I give when people ask me whether 
> > > > > the mantras used in TM are the names of gods: I wouldn't want 
> > > > > to practise a meditation that DIDN'T use mantras that were 
> the 
> > > > > names of gods
> > > > 
> > > > Better quit practicing TM, then, and find one that does.
> > > 
> > > I've got an SRM book from about 1966 -- pre Beatles -- that has 
> MMY 
> > > say exactly that.
> > 
> > Quote, please.
> > 
> > That's what folks claim he said in his Beacon Light
> > address too, but he didn't.
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[curtisdeltablues]

"You didn't say you liked his singing.

I find this prejudicial against the singers-who-sound-like-they-are-
cats-in-heat demographic."

Actually I do dig his singing most of the time.  His phrasing is
hypnotic. Even his harp playing (which is noise to most harp players)
fits his songs so well.  Because I play harp on a rack, a guy asked me
to play some Dylan last weekend.  I had to tell him that Dylan plays
white music and I play black music.  Because I am so white I almost
glow it got a good laugh.  But it is true that I have a lot more Son
House in my blood than Woody Guthrie.  I do play his Blind Lemon
Jefferson's cover from his first album, "See That My Grave is Kept
Clean", but I play it in a more traditional blues style.  That is a
powerful song of mortality!

Cats-in- Heat would make a fantastic band name! 

(Relevance check:  MMY claims that animals drain energy.  Kevin Bacon
owns a cat.)






--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > What a cranky old fart!  Modern music is worthless. I really enjoy 
> his
> > lyrics and his recent autobiography is worth reading. But he is so
> > bizarre.
> 
> 
> 
> You say you enjoy his lyrics.
> 
> You didn't say you liked his singing.
> 
> I find this prejudicial against the singers-who-sound-like-they-are-
> cats-in-heat demographic.
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > BTW I think you can run the posting relevance proof like the Kevin
> > Bacon game.  Dylan gave the Beatles their first weed.  The Beatles 
> got
> > MMY into the newspapers.  Done in two steps!
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  
> wrote:
> > >
> > > I thought this post relevant to FFL because a lot of people in 
> FF, and
> > > TMOers, present, and former actives, listen to music. And have
> > > listened to and admired Bob Dylan. (Does this meet the Doug test 
> for
> > > explaining relevancy?)
> > > 
> > > And so many Dylan lines are relevant to the themes of FFL. A few 
> that
> > > come to mind:
> > > 
> > > "Something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you 
> Mr.
> > Jones?"
> > > 
> > > "She knows too much to argue or to judge."
> > > 
> > > "An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing."
> > > 
> > > "I am younger than that now"
> > > 
> > > "Time will tell who as fell, and who has been left behind, when 
> you go
> > > your way and I go mine." 
> > > 
> > > "I pity the poor immigrant whose strength is spent in vain,"
> > > 
> > > "All along the watchtower, princes [and rajas[ kept the view "
> > > 
> > > "There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the 
> thief,
> > > there's too much confusion, I can't get no relief."
> > > 
> > > "Ezra Pound and TS Elliot, fighting in the captain's tower, while
> > > calypso singers laugh at them And fishermen hold flowers"
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Great comentaries could be written on these sutras -- unfolding 
> great
> > > truths.
> > > ==
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Bob Dylan says modern recordings sound
> > > "atrocious," and even the songs on his new album sounded much 
> better
> > > in the studio than on disc.
> > > Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless
> > > 
> > > "I don't know anybody who's made a record that sounds decent in 
> the
> > > past twenty years, really," the 65-year-old rocker said in an
> > > interview with Rolling Stone magazine.
> > > 
> > > Dylan, who released eight studio albums in that time, returns 
> with his
> > > first recording in five years, "Modern Times," next Tuesday.
> > > 
> > > Noting the music industry's complaints that illegal downloading 
> means
> > > people are getting their music for free, he said, "Well, why 
> not? It
> > > ain't worth nothing anyway."
> > > 
> > > "You listen to these modern records, they're atrocious, they have
> > > sound all over them," he added. "There's no definition of 
> nothing, no
> > > vocal, no nothing, just like ... static."
> > > 
> > > Dylan said he does his best to fight technology, but it's a 
> losing
> > battle.
> > > 
> > > "Even these songs probably sounded ten times better in the 
> studio when
> > > we recorded 'em. CDs are small. There's no stature to it."
> > >
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> >  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > It's kinda the same answer I give when people ask me whether 
> > > > > the mantras used in TM are the names of gods: I wouldn't 
> want 
> > > > > to practise a meditation that DIDN'T use mantras that were 
> the 
> > > > > names of gods
> > > > 
> > > > Better quit practicing TM, then, and find one that does.
> > > 
> > > I've got an SRM book from about 1966 -- pre Beatles -- that has 
> MMY 
> > > say exactly that.
> > 
> > Quote, please.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "All the mantras I teach in TM are the names of Hindu gods and I 
> don't care what Alan Dershowitz or the Superior Court of New Jersey 
> says about it!"
>  -- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, March 7, 1966.
> 
> 
> 

LOL. As you know, the court case was in the mid-70's...

> 
> 
> > That's what folks claim he said in his Beacon Light
> > address too, but he didn't.
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> In 'Meditation: easy system propounded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi' 
> (c1959) there is to be found a series of questions which includes 
the 
> following:
> Q. How does meditation improve the fortune of a man?
> A. Our system of meditation involves the All Mighty Power. We take 
> the 'MANTRA' of some God according to our faith and meditate on 
that. 
> The power of the 'MANTRA' brings to us the Almighty





Grad students studying ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) should 
now tune in to observe Judy Stein's next 40 posts in which she will 
demonstrate that Maharishi did NOT mean in that quote that TM 
mantras are the names of gods.

And then she will call you a liar.







> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> >  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > It's kinda the same answer I give when people ask me 
whether 
> > > > > the mantras used in TM are the names of gods: I wouldn't 
want 
> > > > > to practise a meditation that DIDN'T use mantras that were 
> the 
> > > > > names of gods
> > > > 
> > > > Better quit practicing TM, then, and find one that does.
> > > 
> > > I've got an SRM book from about 1966 -- pre Beatles -- that 
has 
> MMY 
> > > say exactly that.
> > 
> > Quote, please.
> > 
> > That's what folks claim he said in his Beacon Light
> > address too, but he didn't.
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "You didn't say you liked his singing.
> 
> I find this prejudicial against the singers-who-sound-like-they-
are-
> cats-in-heat demographic."
> 
> Actually I do dig his singing most of the time.  His phrasing is
> hypnotic. Even his harp playing (which is noise to most harp 
players)
> fits his songs so well.  Because I play harp on a rack, a guy 
asked me
> to play some Dylan last weekend.  I had to tell him that Dylan 
plays
> white music and I play black music.  Because I am so white I almost
> glow it got a good laugh.  But it is true that I have a lot more 
Son
> House in my blood than Woody Guthrie.  I do play his Blind Lemon
> Jefferson's cover from his first album, "See That My Grave is Kept
> Clean", but I play it in a more traditional blues style.  That is a
> powerful song of mortality!
> 
> Cats-in- Heat would make a fantastic band name! 
> 
> (Relevance check:  MMY claims that animals drain energy.  Kevin 
Bacon
> owns a cat.)




Does this have anything to do with the Bacon book that Spairaig 
mentioned?






> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > What a cranky old fart!  Modern music is worthless. I really 
enjoy 
> > his
> > > lyrics and his recent autobiography is worth reading. But he 
is so
> > > bizarre.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > You say you enjoy his lyrics.
> > 
> > You didn't say you liked his singing.
> > 
> > I find this prejudicial against the singers-who-sound-like-they-
are-
> > cats-in-heat demographic.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > BTW I think you can run the posting relevance proof like the 
Kevin
> > > Bacon game.  Dylan gave the Beatles their first weed.  The 
Beatles 
> > got
> > > MMY into the newspapers.  Done in two steps!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I thought this post relevant to FFL because a lot of people 
in 
> > FF, and
> > > > TMOers, present, and former actives, listen to music. And 
have
> > > > listened to and admired Bob Dylan. (Does this meet the Doug 
test 
> > for
> > > > explaining relevancy?)
> > > > 
> > > > And so many Dylan lines are relevant to the themes of FFL. A 
few 
> > that
> > > > come to mind:
> > > > 
> > > > "Something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do 
you 
> > Mr.
> > > Jones?"
> > > > 
> > > > "She knows too much to argue or to judge."
> > > > 
> > > > "An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing."
> > > > 
> > > > "I am younger than that now"
> > > > 
> > > > "Time will tell who as fell, and who has been left behind, 
when 
> > you go
> > > > your way and I go mine." 
> > > > 
> > > > "I pity the poor immigrant whose strength is spent in vain,"
> > > > 
> > > > "All along the watchtower, princes [and rajas[ kept the 
view "
> > > > 
> > > > "There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the 
> > thief,
> > > > there's too much confusion, I can't get no relief."
> > > > 
> > > > "Ezra Pound and TS Elliot, fighting in the captain's tower, 
while
> > > > calypso singers laugh at them And fishermen hold flowers"
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Great comentaries could be written on these sutras -- 
unfolding 
> > great
> > > > truths.
> > > > ==
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Bob Dylan says modern recordings 
sound
> > > > "atrocious," and even the songs on his new album sounded 
much 
> > better
> > > > in the studio than on disc.
> > > > Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless
> > > > 
> > > > "I don't know anybody who's made a record that sounds decent 
in 
> > the
> > > > past twenty years, really," the 65-year-old rocker said in an
> > > > interview with Rolling Stone magazine.
> > > > 
> > > > Dylan, who released eight studio albums in that time, 
returns 
> > with his
> > > > first recording in five years, "Modern Times," next Tuesday.
> > > > 
> > > > Noting the music industry's complaints that illegal 
downloading 
> > means
> > > > people are getting their music for free, he said, "Well, why 
> > not? It
> > > > ain't worth nothing anyway."
> > > > 
> > > > "You listen to these modern records, they're atrocious, they 
have
> > > > sound all over them," he added. "There's no definition of 
> > nothing, no
> > > > vocal, no nothing, just like ... static."
> > > > 
> > > > Dylan said he does his best to fight technology, but it's a 
> > losing
> > > battle.
> > > > 
> > > > "Even these songs probably sounded ten times better in the 
> > studio when
> > > > we recorded 'em. CDs are small. There's no stature to it."
> > > >
> > >
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] MMY, Old Age

[new . morning]

> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  wrote:
> Actually, brain-functioning doesn't deteriorate all that much just
because you get old, and 
> MMY doesn't show any signs of a stroke that I can see. Would you ask
if people lose the 
> ability to sleep or dream just because they got old?

Actually, the MD/PH.d (neurology) that I used to take my mom -- with
alzhiemers -- to said "If you live to be old enough, you will develop
Alszheimers."  Alzhiemers, amonsgt other things, is a gooping up of
the brain with plaque and all. And it happens to everyone according to
him, given enough time. For some it starts earlier than others.

I have not found strong confirmation of this in Alzhiemers articles --
though I have not looked hard. And this guy, young, weel read in
current research, dual doctoral degrees from major universities,
appeared convinced of his statements. 

Kind of puts the TMO immortality model in perspective "everything just
keeps changing, the body keeps changing, but it never dies." Perhaps
it changes into a no-memory, near comotose living entity -- and then more.









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[curtisdeltablues]

"Does this have anything to do with the Bacon book that Spairaig
mentioned?"

Absolutely.  The first title of MMY's publication was the Bacon-lite
of the Himalayas.  This is a little known fact.





--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > "You didn't say you liked his singing.
> > 
> > I find this prejudicial against the singers-who-sound-like-they-
> are-
> > cats-in-heat demographic."
> > 
> > Actually I do dig his singing most of the time.  His phrasing is
> > hypnotic. Even his harp playing (which is noise to most harp 
> players)
> > fits his songs so well.  Because I play harp on a rack, a guy 
> asked me
> > to play some Dylan last weekend.  I had to tell him that Dylan 
> plays
> > white music and I play black music.  Because I am so white I almost
> > glow it got a good laugh.  But it is true that I have a lot more 
> Son
> > House in my blood than Woody Guthrie.  I do play his Blind Lemon
> > Jefferson's cover from his first album, "See That My Grave is Kept
> > Clean", but I play it in a more traditional blues style.  That is a
> > powerful song of mortality!
> > 
> > Cats-in- Heat would make a fantastic band name! 
> > 
> > (Relevance check:  MMY claims that animals drain energy.  Kevin 
> Bacon
> > owns a cat.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does this have anything to do with the Bacon book that Spairaig 
> mentioned?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What a cranky old fart!  Modern music is worthless. I really 
> enjoy 
> > > his
> > > > lyrics and his recent autobiography is worth reading. But he 
> is so
> > > > bizarre.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > You say you enjoy his lyrics.
> > > 
> > > You didn't say you liked his singing.
> > > 
> > > I find this prejudicial against the singers-who-sound-like-they-
> are-
> > > cats-in-heat demographic.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > BTW I think you can run the posting relevance proof like the 
> Kevin
> > > > Bacon game.  Dylan gave the Beatles their first weed.  The 
> Beatles 
> > > got
> > > > MMY into the newspapers.  Done in two steps!
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought this post relevant to FFL because a lot of people 
> in 
> > > FF, and
> > > > > TMOers, present, and former actives, listen to music. And 
> have
> > > > > listened to and admired Bob Dylan. (Does this meet the Doug 
> test 
> > > for
> > > > > explaining relevancy?)
> > > > > 
> > > > > And so many Dylan lines are relevant to the themes of FFL. A 
> few 
> > > that
> > > > > come to mind:
> > > > > 
> > > > > "Something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do 
> you 
> > > Mr.
> > > > Jones?"
> > > > > 
> > > > > "She knows too much to argue or to judge."
> > > > > 
> > > > > "An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing."
> > > > > 
> > > > > "I am younger than that now"
> > > > > 
> > > > > "Time will tell who as fell, and who has been left behind, 
> when 
> > > you go
> > > > > your way and I go mine." 
> > > > > 
> > > > > "I pity the poor immigrant whose strength is spent in vain,"
> > > > > 
> > > > > "All along the watchtower, princes [and rajas[ kept the 
> view "
> > > > > 
> > > > > "There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the 
> > > thief,
> > > > > there's too much confusion, I can't get no relief."
> > > > > 
> > > > > "Ezra Pound and TS Elliot, fighting in the captain's tower, 
> while
> > > > > calypso singers laugh at them And fishermen hold flowers"
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Great comentaries could be written on these sutras -- 
> unfolding 
> > > great
> > > > > truths.
> > > > > ==
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Bob Dylan says modern recordings 
> sound
> > > > > "atrocious," and even the songs on his new album sounded 
> much 
> > > better
> > > > > in the studio than on disc.
> > > > > Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless
> > > > > 
> > > > > "I don't know anybody who's made a record that sounds decent 
> in 
> > > the
> > > > > past twenty years, really," the 65-year-old rocker said in an
> > > > > interview with Rolling Stone magazine.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Dylan, who released eight studio albums in that time, 
> returns 
> > > with his
> > > > > first recording in five years, "Modern Times," next Tuesday.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Noting the music industry's complaints that illegal 
> downloading 
> > > means
> > > > > people are getting their music for free, he said, "Well, why 
> > > not? It
> > > > > ain't worth nothing anyway."
> > > > > 
> > > > > "You listen to these modern records, they're atrocious, they 
> have
> > > > > sound all over them," he added. "There's no defin

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "You didn't say you liked his singing.
> 
> I find this prejudicial against the singers-who-sound-like-they-are-
> cats-in-heat demographic."
> 
> Actually I do dig his singing most of the time.  His phrasing is
> hypnotic. Even his harp playing (which is noise to most harp players)
> fits his songs so well.  Because I play harp on a rack, a guy asked me
> to play some Dylan last weekend.  I had to tell him that Dylan plays
> white music and I play black music.  Because I am so white I almost
> glow it got a good laugh.  But it is true that I have a lot more Son
> House in my blood than Woody Guthrie.  I do play his Blind Lemon
> Jefferson's cover from his first album, "See That My Grave is Kept
> Clean", but I play it in a more traditional blues style.  That is a
> powerful song of mortality!
> 
> Cats-in- Heat would make a fantastic band name! 
> 
> (Relevance check:  MMY claims that animals drain energy.  Kevin Bacon
> owns a cat.)

Cat: Cat in the Hat: Dr. Suess: One of his first books "Bartholomow
and the 500 Hats" is an equisite treatise  on the unfoldment of
enlightenment -- the removal of layer after layer of imaginary self.

My first grade teacher read it to us, and at the end I jumped up and
shouted, "YES! Om Shivaya NaMa!" 

Few of my peers got me back then. :)






> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > What a cranky old fart!  Modern music is worthless. I really enjoy 
> > his
> > > lyrics and his recent autobiography is worth reading. But he is so
> > > bizarre.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > You say you enjoy his lyrics.
> > 
> > You didn't say you liked his singing.
> > 
> > I find this prejudicial against the singers-who-sound-like-they-are-
> > cats-in-heat demographic.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > BTW I think you can run the posting relevance proof like the Kevin
> > > Bacon game.  Dylan gave the Beatles their first weed.  The Beatles 
> > got
> > > MMY into the newspapers.  Done in two steps!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I thought this post relevant to FFL because a lot of people in 
> > FF, and
> > > > TMOers, present, and former actives, listen to music. And have
> > > > listened to and admired Bob Dylan. (Does this meet the Doug test 
> > for
> > > > explaining relevancy?)
> > > > 
> > > > And so many Dylan lines are relevant to the themes of FFL. A few 
> > that
> > > > come to mind:
> > > > 
> > > > "Something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you 
> > Mr.
> > > Jones?"
> > > > 
> > > > "She knows too much to argue or to judge."
> > > > 
> > > > "An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing."
> > > > 
> > > > "I am younger than that now"
> > > > 
> > > > "Time will tell who as fell, and who has been left behind, when 
> > you go
> > > > your way and I go mine." 
> > > > 
> > > > "I pity the poor immigrant whose strength is spent in vain,"
> > > > 
> > > > "All along the watchtower, princes [and rajas[ kept the view "
> > > > 
> > > > "There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the 
> > thief,
> > > > there's too much confusion, I can't get no relief."
> > > > 
> > > > "Ezra Pound and TS Elliot, fighting in the captain's tower, while
> > > > calypso singers laugh at them And fishermen hold flowers"
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Great comentaries could be written on these sutras -- unfolding 
> > great
> > > > truths.
> > > > ==
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Bob Dylan says modern recordings sound
> > > > "atrocious," and even the songs on his new album sounded much 
> > better
> > > > in the studio than on disc.
> > > > Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless
> > > > 
> > > > "I don't know anybody who's made a record that sounds decent in 
> > the
> > > > past twenty years, really," the 65-year-old rocker said in an
> > > > interview with Rolling Stone magazine.
> > > > 
> > > > Dylan, who released eight studio albums in that time, returns 
> > with his
> > > > first recording in five years, "Modern Times," next Tuesday.
> > > > 
> > > > Noting the music industry's complaints that illegal downloading 
> > means
> > > > people are getting their music for free, he said, "Well, why 
> > not? It
> > > > ain't worth nothing anyway."
> > > > 
> > > > "You listen to these modern records, they're atrocious, they have
> > > > sound all over them," he added. "There's no definition of 
> > nothing, no
> > > > vocal, no nothing, just like ... static."
> > > > 
> > > > Dylan said he does his best to fight technology, but it's a 
> > losing
> > > battle.
> > > > 
> > > > "Even these songs probably sounded ten times better in the 
> > studio when
> > > > we recorded 'em. CDs are small. There's no stature to it."
> > > >
> > >
> >

[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
wrote:
> > 
> > "All the mantras I teach in TM are the names of Hindu gods and I 
> > don't care what Alan Dershowitz or the Superior Court of New Jersey 
> > says about it!"
> >  -- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, March 7, 1966.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> LOL. As you know, the court case was in the mid-70's...


Obviously and clearly, MMY knew the future in detail in 1966. :)
As would be expected of a TMO / enlightened one -- clear experience of
the sidhis. 













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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> > "You didn't say you liked his singing.
> > 
> > I find this prejudicial against the singers-who-sound-like-they-
are-
> > cats-in-heat demographic."
> > 
> > Actually I do dig his singing most of the time.  His phrasing is
> > hypnotic. Even his harp playing (which is noise to most harp 
players)
> > fits his songs so well.  Because I play harp on a rack, a guy 
asked me
> > to play some Dylan last weekend.  I had to tell him that Dylan 
plays
> > white music and I play black music.  Because I am so white I 
almost
> > glow it got a good laugh.  But it is true that I have a lot more 
Son
> > House in my blood than Woody Guthrie.  I do play his Blind Lemon
> > Jefferson's cover from his first album, "See That My Grave is 
Kept
> > Clean", but I play it in a more traditional blues style.  That 
is a
> > powerful song of mortality!
> > 
> > Cats-in- Heat would make a fantastic band name! 
> > 
> > (Relevance check:  MMY claims that animals drain energy.  Kevin 
Bacon
> > owns a cat.)
> 
> Cat: Cat in the Hat: Dr. Suess: One of his first books "Bartholomow
> and the 500 Hats" is an equisite treatise  on the unfoldment of
> enlightenment -- the removal of layer after layer of imaginary 
self.
> 
> My first grade teacher read it to us, and at the end I jumped up 
and
> shouted, "YES! Om Shivaya NaMa!" 
> 
> Few of my peers got me back then. :)





Cat in the Hat: Mike Myers: Parents from Liverpool: Beatles: 
Maharishi: Linda and Judy: Rick Archer: FFL







> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 

> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What a cranky old fart!  Modern music is worthless. I really 
enjoy 
> > > his
> > > > lyrics and his recent autobiography is worth reading. But he 
is so
> > > > bizarre.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > You say you enjoy his lyrics.
> > > 
> > > You didn't say you liked his singing.
> > > 
> > > I find this prejudicial against the singers-who-sound-like-
they-are-
> > > cats-in-heat demographic.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > BTW I think you can run the posting relevance proof like the 
Kevin
> > > > Bacon game.  Dylan gave the Beatles their first weed.  The 
Beatles 
> > > got
> > > > MMY into the newspapers.  Done in two steps!
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning 
 
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought this post relevant to FFL because a lot of 
people in 
> > > FF, and
> > > > > TMOers, present, and former actives, listen to music. And 
have
> > > > > listened to and admired Bob Dylan. (Does this meet the 
Doug test 
> > > for
> > > > > explaining relevancy?)
> > > > > 
> > > > > And so many Dylan lines are relevant to the themes of FFL. 
A few 
> > > that
> > > > > come to mind:
> > > > > 
> > > > > "Something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do 
you 
> > > Mr.
> > > > Jones?"
> > > > > 
> > > > > "She knows too much to argue or to judge."
> > > > > 
> > > > > "An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing."
> > > > > 
> > > > > "I am younger than that now"
> > > > > 
> > > > > "Time will tell who as fell, and who has been left behind, 
when 
> > > you go
> > > > > your way and I go mine." 
> > > > > 
> > > > > "I pity the poor immigrant whose strength is spent in 
vain,"
> > > > > 
> > > > > "All along the watchtower, princes [and rajas[ kept the 
view "
> > > > > 
> > > > > "There must be some way out of here," said the joker to 
the 
> > > thief,
> > > > > there's too much confusion, I can't get no relief."
> > > > > 
> > > > > "Ezra Pound and TS Elliot, fighting in the captain's 
tower, while
> > > > > calypso singers laugh at them And fishermen hold flowers"
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Great comentaries could be written on these sutras -- 
unfolding 
> > > great
> > > > > truths.
> > > > > ==
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Bob Dylan says modern recordings 
sound
> > > > > "atrocious," and even the songs on his new album sounded 
much 
> > > better
> > > > > in the studio than on disc.
> > > > > Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless
> > > > > 
> > > > > "I don't know anybody who's made a record that sounds 
decent in 
> > > the
> > > > > past twenty years, really," the 65-year-old rocker said in 
an
> > > > > interview with Rolling Stone magazine.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Dylan, who released eight studio albums in that time, 
returns 
> > > with his
> > > > > first recording in five years, "Modern Times," next 
Tuesday.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Noting the music industry's complaints that illegal 
downloading 
> > > means
> > > > > people are getting their music for free, he said, "Well, 
why 
> > > not? It
> > > > > ain't worth nothing anyway."
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"  
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  
wrote:
> > >
> > > What is really odd and funny, if not delusional, is that we 
are asked
> > > to suspend disbelief and support the notion that Jim who has 
such 
> > poor
> > > comprehension skills, and who regularly makes cognitive 
errors, is
> > > able to clearly interpret his experiences, and self-proclaim 
himself
> > > as in BC. 
> > 
> > Speaking of comprehension and delusion, who is asking you to 
suspend 
> > disbelief, etc. and accept anything I say? Another foolish game 
you 
> > play.
> 
> OK. Fair enough. I thought you had earlier proclaimed to be in BC 
(as
> defined by MMY). Is that an incorrect memory? Are you claiming that
> you do not beleive you are in BC (as defined by MMY)? If you don't
> deny it, its hardly a huge gaff to state "we are asked to 
believe...".
> 
> Regardless, if you did not explicity claim to be in BC (as defined 
by
> MMY) you have implied it, IMO, by making strong definitive 
statements
> about it. 

Sorry, I am not playing this game with you.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[kenwoodfx]

You did not understand what I have written.Still that is not reason for you not to be more polite.Doesn`t matter.Bye.Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ken,  all your silly rantings are going to accomplish is to show people  how lucky they are *not* to be in the Domes...and castigating people  for standing on principle by refusing to apply when others are still  being rejected, shows an almost incredible lack of basic integrity.  Get a life.  Sal  On Aug 22, 2006, at 10:28 AM,
 kenwoodfx wrote:  >  If you don`t, or don`t want to understand what I meant, then it`s  > also your decision. > Those who want to understand, will understand. If someone doesn`t  > want, it is also OK. > Anyway, I have tried to explain it to you, in my previous reply. > For some time, I will not lose my time. > You, and everyone else can write whatever you want. > I had a good will to inspire more people to come in the Dome. > Everyone will choose for themselves what they like. > Let it be. > I wish you all the best. > > > > dhamiltony2k5  wrote:--- In  > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED].> >> >>  wrote: Is this the 'SIMS Shuffle' ? >>  -JohnY
 >> >>  > >>  > >>  > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kenwoodfx  wrote: >>  > > >>  > > It is, as anything else an individual decision. >> >>  Doug writing, yes a beautiful example of TM.movement non-answer. TM- >>  Movement-Speak. >>  Part of the deal here is that we do live together in this community >>  and how the Tmorg acts and thinks does influence a lot of people >>  here, our friends and neighbors. To just dismiss the real and say >>  it is all an individual decision begs the question: >>  > What would >>  > you suppose they would have to do in order to bring a more >>  > significant number of people back? Would they come back? >>  > Start with round numbers, a million TM meditators
 taught in the >>  US, >>  > with >>  > some tens of thousands of TM teachers taught, some tens of >>  thousands >>  > people taught the TM0-sidhis (27K?); and a few hundreds show up >>  when >>  > called. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/104974 >>  > >>  > A lasting peace and reconciliation? Reconciling the numbers, what >>  > would the TMOrg need do to reconcile >>  > with its people? It had got pretty ugly in recent years, what could >>  > the elements of a lasting peace and reconciliation for the TMorg >>  > with its meditators? >>  > >>  > With Kind Regards, >>  > >>  > -Doug in FF >>  > >> >>  This question above,
 what say the tru-believer reading the list? >>  Have they no thot on this? How do the insiders going to the domes >>  see it going? How about a defender of the faithful speaking for >>  them? A public defender? What do they see it taking to bring a >>  significant number back? >> > > Do you Yahoo!? >  Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. 
		Get your email and more, right on the  new Yahoo.com 

__._,_.___





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__,_._,___

[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> Sorry, I am not playing this game with you.

OK then. You claimed a point I made was inaccurate. I sought
clarificaion. You obsfucated and punted as usual. (Usually a sign of
no substantive points to make)

As I said earlier, but unheeded by you, your incorrect casting, as a
game, the discussions of serious issues (false claims of
enlightenment, cognitive errors, misinterpretation of experiences)
appears to further reflect the emptiness of your claims. 

If you don't like games, perhaps you can cease your apparently
delusional claims (explicit or implicit) of being in MMY/TMO BC and
your imaginary powers that you feel stem from that.

The earlier, non-refuted, point stands (with minor edits):

What is really odd and funny, if not delusional, is that we
are asked, by implication, to suspend disbelief and support the
notion, that Jim who has such poor comprehension skills, and who
regularly makes cognitive errors, is able to clearly interpret his
experiences, and self-proclaim himself as in BC.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences





on 8/22/06 1:56 PM, new.morning at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

What is really odd and funny, if not delusional, is that we
are asked, by implication, to suspend disbelief and support the
notion, that Jim who has such poor comprehension skills, and who
regularly makes cognitive errors, is able to clearly interpret his
experiences, and self-proclaim himself as in BC.

Remember MMY’s term “babbling saint”? I’m not agreeing that Jim doesn’t have good communication skills, but even if he didn’t that wouldn’t necessarily say anything about his level of consciousness.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> Maria Sharapova: Russian: Beatles song Back in the USSR: Beatles got
> MMY in the newspapers. 
> 
> or 
> 
> Maria Sharapova: Goddess: TM mantras
> 
> :)
>


If you dig Russian chicks you might like some of the female
characters in the Russian telenovela "Poor Anastasia"
(Bednaya Nastya):

http://www.serials.ru/galleries/en/bednaya_nastya/2/5.html









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"  
wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Sorry, I am not playing this game with you.
> 
> OK then. You claimed a point I made was inaccurate. I sought
> clarificaion. You obsfucated and punted as usual. (Usually a sign 
of
> no substantive points to make)
> 
> As I said earlier, but unheeded by you, your incorrect casting, as 
a
> game, the discussions of serious issues (false claims of
> enlightenment, cognitive errors, misinterpretation of experiences)
> appears to further reflect the emptiness of your claims. 
> 
> If you don't like games, perhaps you can cease your apparently
> delusional claims (explicit or implicit) of being in MMY/TMO BC and
> your imaginary powers that you feel stem from that.
> 
> The earlier, non-refuted, point stands (with minor edits):
> 
> What is really odd and funny, if not delusional, is that we
> are asked, by implication, to suspend disbelief and support the
> notion, that Jim who has such poor comprehension skills, and who
> regularly makes cognitive errors, is able to clearly interpret his
> experiences, and self-proclaim himself as in BC.
>

Where on earth do you get this idea that when someone posts 
something they are asking by implication that it be supported by 
those on this board? 

I am stupified that you think that. I've always just seen any of the 
posts here as points of view offered up as the poster's truth of the 
moment, but not necessarily anyone else's.

You can claim anything you want about me or yourself and I am free 
to do the same, and if it does or doesn't fit into your neat little 
logical boxes, tough tiddly winks, bro.









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless
 
Alex Stanley says Bob Dylan's music is worthless. That godawful nasal
droning he calls a voice makes my flesh crawl. I could never
understand his appeal.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Ken,  all your silly rantings are going to accomplish is to show people 
> how lucky they are *not* to be in the Domes...and castigating people 
> for standing on principle by refusing to apply when others are still 
> being rejected, shows an almost incredible lack of basic integrity.
> 
> Get a life.
> 
> Sal

Hi Sal, 

Over time, I have enjoyed your posts, common sense, and sly wit.

 > people [who] stand[ing] on principle by refusing to apply when
others are still 
> being rejected

I am curious about your comment [slightly edited to hone in on the
point I am interested in]. Are many people being rejected currently?
Shivama seems to be quite an exceptions, perhaps a reasonable one, to
the general "rule' -- that is my impression that all but the most
blatant are being accepted. 

For example Rory has been and is in the domes. Perhaps he was posting
here before your time -- I don't recall your "entrance" [slinky black
cocktail dress, right? :) ]. 

Rory has been accepted and per Rick, is attending the Domes. While
Rory is an engaging, interesting and charming guy, I like him, he is
hardly what one would call TMO mainstream. 

For example, he has a website that postulates or claims realization --
depending on which day you ask him :) 16 or 32 or some large  number
of states of enlightenement -- most beyond (the apparently MMY/TMO)
BC. And he has expounded on, done, dabbled, or seriously pursued many
different techniques and teaqches, AFAIR. Including some sort of
mediumship according to his website -- and former wife (who used to
post here also -- Vashti). He also used to run a esoteric book shop,
and gave classes on many esoteric topics. Apparently when he was in
FF, he had a "following". All good and fine things in my book. But not
your typical TMO TBer.

So if Rory is being accepted, then the bar seems pretty low for those
with quite wide, non-TMO, spiritual topics and practices. 

Rick said Tom Traynor has also been accepted. Tom appears to also have
have wide ranging, beyond TMO, pursuits and practices. And heads a
weekly satsang in FF for the "enlightened". 

Again, not your standard TMO TBer. 

So I value your, on the ground, insights from the "front". It appears
to me, most all are being accepted to the domes. Is your observation
there in FF different? Right now? (not 3-4 weeks ago).

Thanks.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> wrote:
> >
> > Ken,  all your silly rantings are going to accomplish is to show 
people 
> > how lucky they are *not* to be in the Domes...and castigating 
people 
> > for standing on principle by refusing to apply when others are 
still 
> > being rejected, shows an almost incredible lack of basic 
integrity.
> > 
> > Get a life.
> > 
> > Sal
> 
> Hi Sal, 
> 
> Over time, I have enjoyed your posts, common sense, and sly wit.
> 
>  > people [who] stand[ing] on principle by refusing to apply when
> others are still 
> > being rejected
> 
> I am curious about your comment [slightly edited to hone in on the
> point I am interested in]. Are many people being rejected 
currently?
> Shivama seems to be quite an exceptions, perhaps a reasonable one, 
to
> the general "rule' -- that is my impression that all but the most
> blatant are being accepted. 
> 
> For example Rory has been and is in the domes. Perhaps he was 
posting
> here before your time -- I don't recall your "entrance" [slinky 
black
> cocktail dress, right? :) ]. 
> 
> Rory has been accepted and per Rick, is attending the Domes. While
> Rory is an engaging, interesting and charming guy, I like him, he 
is
> hardly what one would call TMO mainstream. 
> 
> For example, he has a website that postulates or claims 
realization --
> depending on which day you ask him :) 16 or 32 or some large  
number
> of states of enlightenement -- most beyond (the apparently MMY/TMO)
> BC. And he has expounded on, done, dabbled, or seriously pursued 
many
> different techniques and teaqches, AFAIR. Including some sort of
> mediumship according to his website -- and former wife (who used to
> post here also -- Vashti). He also used to run a esoteric book 
shop,
> and gave classes on many esoteric topics. Apparently when he was in
> FF, he had a "following". All good and fine things in my book. But 
not
> your typical TMO TBer.
> 
> So if Rory is being accepted, then the bar seems pretty low





I've never understood the anaology of "the bar".

If it is a limbo bar, then the expression would have to be "the bar 
seems pretty high", not "low" because if it was a low limbo bar, 
almost no one would be able to pass under it.  If it's "high" then 
almost anyone can pass under.

So if the analogy doesn't refer to a limbo bar, what is it referring 
to?

Sheltered and sequestered my whole life, I remain...Shemp McGurk.






> for those
> with quite wide, non-TMO, spiritual topics and practices. 
> 
> Rick said Tom Traynor has also been accepted. Tom appears to also 
have
> have wide ranging, beyond TMO, pursuits and practices. And heads a
> weekly satsang in FF for the "enlightened". 
> 
> Again, not your standard TMO TBer. 
> 
> So I value your, on the ground, insights from the "front". It 
appears
> to me, most all are being accepted to the domes. Is your 
observation
> there in FF different? Right now? (not 3-4 weeks ago).
> 
> Thanks.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> 
> I've never understood the anaology of "the bar".
> 
> If it is a limbo bar, then the expression would have to be "the bar 
> seems pretty high", not "low" because if it was a low limbo bar, 
> almost no one would be able to pass under it.  If it's "high" then 
> almost anyone can pass under.
> 
> So if the analogy doesn't refer to a limbo bar, what is it referring 
> to?
> 
> Sheltered and sequestered my whole life, I remain...Shemp McGurk.


Ha ha. I thought the same thing. I first wrote, the  bar seems pretty
high (meaning easy) -- but that didn't seem to get the point across.
So, while thinking of limbo -- and my backwards reference-- I closed
my eyes, hit send, and hoped the point I was trying to make would be
clear. :)

Regardles. I meant it low restrictions, and easy bar to jump over,
lots of people get round the bar -- etc.










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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kenwoodfx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If you don`t, or don`t want to understand what I meant, then it`s also
your decision.
> Those who want to understand, will understand. If someone doesn`t
want, it is also OK.
> Anyway, I have tried to explain it to you, in my previous reply.
> For some time, I will not lose my time.
> You, and everyone else can write whatever you want.
> I had a good will to inspire more people to come in the Dome.
> Everyone will choose for themselves what they like.
> Let it be.
> I wish you all the best.
>
OK. That pretty much says it all then.

JohnY


>
>
> dhamiltony2k5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" jyouells@
>
>  wrote: Is this the 'SIMS Shuffle' ?
>  -JohnY
>
>  >
>  >
>  > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kenwoodfx  wrote:
>  > >
>  > > It is, as anything else an individual decision.
>
>  Doug writing, yes a beautiful example of TM.movement non-answer. TM-
>  Movement-Speak.
>  Part of the deal here is that we do live together in this community
>  and how the Tmorg acts and thinks does influence a lot of people
>  here, our friends and neighbors.  To just dismiss the real and say
>  it is all an individual decision begs the question:
>  > What would
>  > you suppose they would have to do in order to bring a more
>  > significant number of people back? Would they come back?
>  > Start with round numbers, a million TM meditators taught in the
>  US,
>  > with
>  > some tens of thousands of TM teachers taught, some tens of
>  thousands
>  > people taught the TM0-sidhis (27K?); and a few hundreds show up
>  when
>  > called. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/104974
>  >
>  > A lasting peace and reconciliation? Reconciling the numbers, what
>  > would the TMOrg need do to reconcile
>  > with its people? It had got pretty ugly in recent years, what could
>  > the elements of a lasting peace and reconciliation for the TMorg
>  > with its meditators?
>  >
>  > With Kind Regards,
>  >
>  > -Doug in FF
>  >
>
>  This question above, what say the tru-believer reading the list?
>  Have they no thot on this? How do the insiders going to the domes
>  see it going? How about a defender of the faithful speaking for
>  them? A public defender? What do they see it taking to bring a
>  significant number back?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  Everyone is raving about the  all-new Yahoo! Mail.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I read what he writes. He is completely absolutely 100% incorrect to 
> distinguish this fanciful 'MMY/TMO enlightenment' or 'MMY-style 
> enlightenment' from other modes or styles of enlightenment. Only a 
> mind in bondage would even concieve of such an abstraction. 
> Enlightenment is enlightenment is enlightenment. Each of us 
> experiences It differently, but It is the same thing.
> 
> There is no such thing as 'MMY/TMO style enlightenment' vs other 
> styles of enlightenment. The idea is completely incorrect and 
> rediculous! It is a stupid game he plays, who's only object is to 
> disavow his own self-dissolution.

Does exhibiting or not exhibiting particular subtle dualistic
phenomena qualify as "experiencing It differently"? What I see as the
defining core of awakening is a shift in identity from the limited
I/me to pure Being, the conscious nature, or however you choose to
describe that "I AM THATness". However, one can realize that shift in
identity without being able to perform esoteric parlor tricks.
Claiming that one is not awake unless he's witnessing 24/7 is absurd;
it's like claiming that one is not awake unless he can make steam rise
off ice-water soaked sheets wrapped around the body.






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[FairfieldLife] Big Thunder in Little Boca

[Peter]

I'm sitting in my office in Boca Raton and there is
the mother of all thunder storms occuring outside.
HUGE, long, ripping thunder claps; one after another.
Really quite impressive. Makes me jiva jingle! 

KAAAROOO
OOMMM!!! 



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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does exhibiting or not exhibiting particular subtle dualistic
> phenomena qualify as "experiencing It differently"? 

Hi, I was referring to an awakened person's experience, not 
necessarily their observed presence. Meaning that as each of us have 
distinct nervous systems, there are different flavors of awakening we 
each experience, though the core experience that you describe below is 
perfectly the same for all awakened souls.

What I see as the
> defining core of awakening is a shift in identity from the limited
> I/me to pure Being, the conscious nature, or however you choose to
> describe that "I AM THATness". However, one can realize that shift in
> identity without being able to perform esoteric parlor tricks.
> Claiming that one is not awake unless he's witnessing 24/7 is absurd;
> it's like claiming that one is not awake unless he can make steam 
rise
> off ice-water soaked sheets wrapped around the body.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> In 'Meditation: easy system propounded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi' 
> (c1959) there is to be found a series of questions which includes 
the 
> following:
> Q. How does meditation improve the fortune of a man?
> A. Our system of meditation involves the All Mighty Power. We take 
> the 'MANTRA' of some God according to our faith and meditate on 
that. 
> The power of the 'MANTRA' brings to us the Almighty

Thanks, Paul.

'Zat the publication you were referring to, Shemp?




> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> >  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > It's kinda the same answer I give when people ask me 
whether 
> > > > > the mantras used in TM are the names of gods: I wouldn't 
want 
> > > > > to practise a meditation that DIDN'T use mantras that were 
> the 
> > > > > names of gods
> > > > 
> > > > Better quit practicing TM, then, and find one that does.
> > > 
> > > I've got an SRM book from about 1966 -- pre Beatles -- that has 
> MMY 
> > > say exactly that.
> > 
> > Quote, please.
> > 
> > That's what folks claim he said in his Beacon Light
> > address too, but he didn't.
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> >  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > It's kinda the same answer I give when people ask me 
whether 
> > > > > the mantras used in TM are the names of gods: I wouldn't 
> want 
> > > > > to practise a meditation that DIDN'T use mantras that were 
> the 
> > > > > names of gods
> > > > 
> > > > Better quit practicing TM, then, and find one that does.
> > > 
> > > I've got an SRM book from about 1966 -- pre Beatles -- that has 
> MMY 
> > > say exactly that.
> > 
> > Quote, please.
> 
> "All the mantras I teach in TM are the names of Hindu gods and I 
> don't care what Alan Dershowitz or the Superior Court of New Jersey 
> says about it!"
>  -- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, March 7, 1966.

So I gather you got no quote, right?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 8/22/06 12:34 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > I probably have the original version that was posted here. I'll look.
> > My recollection is that the implication of that version is the same.
> > But I'll check to see if I have it. Or it's in the archive of this
group.
> > 
> It¹s in the files section.
>

That's the one I posted from. That's the earliest then ? 

JohnY





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Big Thunder in Little Boca

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Big Thunder in Little Boca





on 8/22/06 2:49 PM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I'm sitting in my office in Boca Raton and there is
> the mother of all thunder storms occuring outside.
> HUGE, long, ripping thunder claps; one after another.
> Really quite impressive. Makes me jiva jingle! 
> 
> KAAAROOO
> OOMMM!!! 

I hope you have the mother of all surge protectors.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > "All the mantras I teach in TM are the names of Hindu gods and I 
> > > don't care what Alan Dershowitz or the Superior Court of New Jersey 
> > > says about it!"
> > >  -- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, March 7, 1966.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > LOL. As you know, the court case was in the mid-70's...
> 
> 
> Obviously and clearly, MMY knew the future in detail in 1966. :)
> As would be expected of a TMO / enlightened one -- clear experience of
> the sidhis.
>

Now, that's FUNNY! 

JohnY






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  wrote:
> >
> > on 8/22/06 12:34 PM, jyouells2000 at jyouells@ wrote:
> > 
> > > I probably have the original version that was posted here. I'll 
look.
> > > My recollection is that the implication of that version is the 
same.
> > > But I'll check to see if I have it. Or it's in the archive of 
this
> group.
> > > 
> > It¹s in the files section.
> >
> 
> That's the one I posted from. That's the earliest then ?

I think he means that's the original version that
was posted here.  Whether that's the early "draft"
version others have mentioned is another question.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences





on 8/22/06 3:04 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  
> , Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> on 8/22/06 12:34 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
>>> I probably have the original version that was posted here. I'll look.
>>> My recollection is that the implication of that version is the same.
>>> But I'll check to see if I have it. Or it's in the archive of this
> group.
>>> 
>> It’s in the files section.
>> 
> 
> That's the one I posted from. That's the earliest then ? 

I believe so.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > In 'Meditation: easy system propounded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi' 
> > (c1959) there is to be found a series of questions which includes 
> the 
> > following:
> > Q. How does meditation improve the fortune of a man?
> > A. Our system of meditation involves the All Mighty Power. We 
take 
> > the 'MANTRA' of some God according to our faith and meditate on 
> that. 
> > The power of the 'MANTRA' brings to us the Almighty
> 
> Grad students studying ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) should 
> now tune in to observe Judy Stein's next 40 posts in which she will 
> demonstrate that Maharishi did NOT mean in that quote that TM 
> mantras are the names of gods.
> 
> And then she will call you a liar.

If you say he meant the TM mantras are the names
of gods, yes indeedy.

Or perhaps just illiterate.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  
> wrote:
> >
> > What is really odd and funny, if not delusional, is that we
> > are asked, by implication, to suspend disbelief and support the
> > notion, that Jim who has such poor comprehension skills, and who
> > regularly makes cognitive errors, is able to clearly interpret his
> > experiences, and self-proclaim himself as in BC.
> >
> 
> Where on earth do you get this idea that when someone posts 
> something they are asking by implication that it be supported by 
> those on this board? 

First, lets clarify that "support the notion" is casual conversational
language. It would be, formally, more precise, to have said "find
plausible the notion". Does your point and objection change if I make
that innoccuous substitution? 

> > What is really odd and funny, if not delusional, is that we
> > are asked, by implication, to suspend disbelief and find plausible
> > the notion, that Jim who has such poor comprehension skills, 
> >  and who
> > regularly makes cognitive errors, is able to clearly interpret his
> > experiences, and self-proclaim himself as in BC.

But on to the primary point of your obsfucation or low comprehension.
Are you really, in your mind, equating all posts on FFL to a far
smaller class of posts -- claims (explicit or implicit) one makes
about "attainments"? If so, you support my above premise again. You
have weak reading, comprehension and analytical skills. Hardly the
sort of fellow one would trust in discriminating the subtlest and
trickiest of ontological and espistimological problems. 

Many posts are quite simple observations. Light. Not hard claims being
made. The issue of plausibility is not so much an issue.
 
Another, perhaps more rigorous type of post is a POV post. One states
a point of view, and often, hopefully, tries to support the point made
-- that is they try to make the case for their POV plausible. 

A third, more rare type of post, the type you have been made at times,
are or imply a more rigourous "claim" with regards ones expertise to
address a particular area with some degree of authority, validity and
correctness. 

For example, Peter is a certified psychoanalyst. Markus (sp) is a
member of his states bar, a practicing lawyer. When they makes
comments within the area of their profession, its implied that their
comments are plausible -- because  they have established their
credibility in that field. We find their comments plausible because we
find their expertise plausible. 

A further example, if one claims to have expertise in an area,
explicity -- or implicitly* by making copious definitive statements
about a topic -- then readers usually assume that the poster stands
behind such claims -- at least to the degree of attempting to be
plausible. 

In contrast, as touched on earlier, there are a much wider class of
posts in which people state POVs. Some quite preliminary. They may
caveat it by saying, "I am not sure about this, i may change my view
tomorrow..." But EVEN then, they try to make a plausible case for
todays POV. 

To assume (as you perhaps are -- by implication) that people post and
they are not trying to make a plausible case for their assertion or
POV is pretty funny.

So, lets step back. When you state or imply you are in MMY/TMO style
BC*, do you simply mean: 

*(which I reacall you have explicitly stated, and after three attempts
to have you confirm or deny such, you continue to obsfucate) 

"I believe I am in MMY/TMO style BC. However, I am not really sure.
This is just my opinion. Here are some reasons I think I am. Any
clarifications to help me better interpret my experiences are welcome." 

If so, then this would be a quite welcome and refreshing observation.
Is that all you have been attempting to convey regarding your
assessment, interpretations and proclamations of your state of
consciousnss?

Still, I suggest even in the above, you are attempting to make a
plausible case for your belief.  (which is equivalent in my intent of
meaning, by my use of the casual "we are lead to believe" -- that is
"we have been presented with a POV that the poster believes is plausible".

> I am stupified 

yes, though I would not state it so harshly. :) 


> I've always just seen any of the 
> posts here as points of view offered up as the poster's truth of the 
> moment, but not necessarily anyone else's.

So as i have asked repeated before, and you have obsfucated, when you
make repeated definitive statements about MMY/TMO BC, are you simply
basing this on some POV -- derived from some memory of some TMO course
or tape?

Or are you implying that you feel you are living TMO/MMY BC, as i have
inferred. (Perhaps inferred incorrectly, but I have repeatedly asked
for clarification and only recieved diversions and obsfuction.)
If you are implying such, 

Is language usually such a large hurdle for you? If so, you can
understand

[FairfieldLife] Re: Big Thunder in Little Boca

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm sitting in my office in Boca Raton and there is
> the mother of all thunder storms occuring outside.
> HUGE, long, ripping thunder claps; one after another.
> Really quite impressive. Makes me jiva jingle! 
> 
> KAAAROOO
> OOMMM!!! 
> 

i thought your jiva was long ago liberated. Retired. Moved to Florida. 

Oh. :)








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[Sal Sunshine]

New,
It wasn't really a question of who is and who isn't being accepted 
(although I would argue that the rejection of *anyone* for any reason 
other than a fear (based on some kind of reality) that they might be 
dangerous, would a good enough reason for everyone else to stay away) 
but of Ken's contention that everyone should apply, regardless of where 
they are and what other obligations they might have...and also, that it 
should somehow not bother anyone else that people are being 
discriminated against by these rejections, forcibly ejected from the 
Domes, etc.

Doesn't any of that bother you?  I thought the days of people laying 
guilt trips on others, while also telling them to ignore their own 
better judgment, were over. I was wrong.  And I'm not sure how 
currently you mean--it's apparently happened on this course.  Also the 
fact that they are asking for SS #s (or so I understood) is 
troubling--that would rule me out immediately, as I simply wouldn't 
give it to them.  What could the reason possibly be except to 
intimidate people?  I've been on a lot of courses given by various 
organizations, and I have never been asked to give that.  What are your 
feelings?


Sal


> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>
>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ken,  all your silly rantings are going to accomplish is to show
> people
>>> how lucky they are *not* to be in the Domes...and castigating
> people
>>> for standing on principle by refusing to apply when others are
> still
>>> being rejected, shows an almost incredible lack of basic
> integrity.
>>>
>>> Get a life.
>>>
>>> Sal
>>
>> Hi Sal,
>>
>> Over time, I have enjoyed your posts, common sense, and sly wit.
>>
>>> people [who] stand[ing] on principle by refusing to apply when
>> others are still
>>> being rejected
>>
>> I am curious about your comment [slightly edited to hone in on the
>> point I am interested in]. Are many people being rejected
> currently?
>> Shivama seems to be quite an exceptions, perhaps a reasonable one,
> to
>> the general "rule' -- that is my impression that all but the most
>> blatant are being accepted.
>>
>> For example Rory has been and is in the domes. Perhaps he was
> posting
>> here before your time -- I don't recall your "entrance" [slinky
> black
>> cocktail dress, right? :) ].
>>
>> Rory has been accepted and per Rick, is attending the Domes. While
>> Rory is an engaging, interesting and charming guy, I like him, he
> is
>> hardly what one would call TMO mainstream.
>>
>> For example, he has a website that postulates or claims
> realization --
>> depending on which day you ask him :) 16 or 32 or some large
> number
>> of states of enlightenement -- most beyond (the apparently MMY/TMO)
>> BC. And he has expounded on, done, dabbled, or seriously pursued
> many
>> different techniques and teaqches, AFAIR. Including some sort of
>> mediumship according to his website -- and former wife (who used to
>> post here also -- Vashti). He also used to run a esoteric book
> shop,
>> and gave classes on many esoteric topics. Apparently when he was in
>> FF, he had a "following". All good and fine things in my book. But
> not
>> your typical TMO TBer.
>>
>> So if Rory is being accepted, then the bar seems pretty low
>



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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason"  
wrote:
> >
> > 
> > In 'Meditation: easy system propounded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi' 
> > (c1959) there is to be found a series of questions which includes 
the 
> > following:
> > Q. How does meditation improve the fortune of a man?
> > A. Our system of meditation involves the All Mighty Power. We 
take 
> > the 'MANTRA' of some God according to our faith and meditate on 
that. 
> > The power of the 'MANTRA' brings to us the Almighty
> > 
> > 
> 
> All Mighty Power sounds  like a rough translation of Ishvara (sp) 
from Patanjali.

But note that he does *not* say the mantras are
names of gods.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Paul Mason]

There has been some debate as to whether or not the teaching of TM in 
India is the same as elsewhere. 
During a documentary made at Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's ashram in 
Rishikesh in India in 1968 whilst The Beatles were there, filmmaker 
Yavar Abbas asks, amongst other things, why there are less Indians 
than westerners on the ashram. MMY tells him that for these three 
months 'we do not have any Indian trainees':-

'When I train Indians, then I train ONLY Indians, because to spread 
Transcendental Meditation in India, it has to have the background of 
yoga, & vedanta, & bhakti, & karma & Gita, & Koran & Bible. In the 
west we have to be on the level of systematic, scientific 
investigation, experimentation, so the whole language, the whole 
approach for relieving the society in the west is different, even 
though basically the thing is the same.'




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > In 'Meditation: easy system propounded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi' 
> > (c1959) there is to be found a series of questions which includes 
> the 
> > following:
> > Q. How does meditation improve the fortune of a man?
> > A. Our system of meditation involves the All Mighty Power. We 
take 
> > the 'MANTRA' of some God according to our faith and meditate on 
> that. 
> > The power of the 'MANTRA' brings to us the Almighty
> 
> Thanks, Paul.
> 
> 'Zat the publication you were referring to, Shemp?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
>  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> > >  
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > It's kinda the same answer I give when people ask me 
> whether 
> > > > > > the mantras used in TM are the names of gods: I wouldn't 
> want 
> > > > > > to practise a meditation that DIDN'T use mantras that 
were 
> > the 
> > > > > > names of gods
> > > > > 
> > > > > Better quit practicing TM, then, and find one that does.
> > > > 
> > > > I've got an SRM book from about 1966 -- pre Beatles -- that 
has 
> > MMY 
> > > > say exactly that.
> > > 
> > > Quote, please.
> > > 
> > > That's what folks claim he said in his Beacon Light
> > > address too, but he didn't.
> > >
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

> Also the 
> fact that they are asking for SS #s (or so I understood) is 
> troubling--that would rule me out immediately, as I simply wouldn't 
> give it to them.  What could the reason possibly be except to 
> intimidate people?  I've been on a lot of courses given by various 
> organizations, and I have never been asked to give that.

I'm pretty sure I had to give my Social Security
number when I first applied to learn TM in 1975.
Back then, of course, we'd never heard of identity
theft; all *kinds* of people asked for SS #s for
identification, and nobody thought anything of it.
I think they also asked for it on course applications
then as well.

It does have the advantage of being a unique
identifier. I went to a doctor recently for a flu
shot and was asked for my SS #.  I said no, and that
was OK with them, but it would never have occurred
to me to think they were trying to intimidate me by
asking.  It used to be almost a reflex to identify
people by their SS # and is still used in many cases,
although obviously more and more people these days
are refusing to give it.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Steorn: Free Energy?

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 5 days ago Steorn, an Irish Company, placed a full page ad in The 
Economist
> -- this costs around £140K.
> Here's the text:
> 
> "All great truths begin as Blasphemies"
> -George Bernard Shaw
> 

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Steorn_Free_Energy





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> However, one can realize that shift in
> identity without being able to perform esoteric parlor tricks.
> Claiming that one is not awake unless he's witnessing 24/7 is absurd;

And is any one making that absurd claim? Not that i have read.

MMY does make specific claims about the he refers to as CC, UC, etc,
aka "MMY/TMO styles of enlightenment."  Thats his perogotive. He can
make any claim he wants about states and terms he defines. That
doesn't necessarily make them valid. Or invalid.

One can realize that shift in identity without being able to perform
esoteric parlor tricks witnessing 24/7. However, to claim that this
state of awakening is what MMY refers to, aka MMY/TMO styles of
enlightenemnt, is quite absurd and fraudulant. Specifically when he
specifies particular manifest attributes for "his" scheme of things
such as 24/7 witnessing and sidhis. 

Its like claiming, "I have a car. It runs. Cadillacs are cars. They
run. Thus my car is a Cadillac." 

Its absurd. Cadillacs may be good cars, they may be shitty cars, but
if your car doesn't have the specific attributes that GM says are in a
Cadillac, its absurd and fraudulent to call your car a Cadillac.
Perhaps your car is a kewl hybrid. Much kewler than a Caddillac. Why
would you ever care to call it a Cadillac? Hood ornament envy?












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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Paul Mason]

Even though the terms Transcendental Meditation & TM had not been 
coined, in 'Thirty Years Around the World' it states catagorically 
that before the yagna performed in October 1955, 'Throughout Kerala 
Maharishi was instructing the people in Transcendental Meditation'. 
In 'Beacon Light of the Himalayas' (an allusion to Guru Dev) Bal 
Brhmachari Mahsh (as he signed himself some weeks later) tells the 
audience:-

'When he devotes himself and meditates on the name and form (NAMA AND 
RUPA) of the LORD, he begins to experience some ANANDAM and also the 
Grace of the Lord in every walk of life. This experience of Peace and 
Anandam is Sadhana. And Sadhana naturally increases his devotion to 
God and makes him more and more attached to Him. Thus he develops 
intensity of Raga for the ISHTAM. Gradually, this final Raga goes on 
increasing and this increase of Raga and Love for the ISHTAM enables 
the Grihastha to feel the presence of his 'ISHTAM' always with him, 
in all his ways of life, in all his thought, speech and action.'




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" 
 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > In 'Meditation: easy system propounded by Maharishi Mahesh 
Yogi' 
> > > (c1959) there is to be found a series of questions which 
includes 
> the 
> > > following:
> > > Q. How does meditation improve the fortune of a man?
> > > A. Our system of meditation involves the All Mighty Power. We 
> take 
> > > the 'MANTRA' of some God according to our faith and meditate on 
> that. 
> > > The power of the 'MANTRA' brings to us the Almighty
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > All Mighty Power sounds  like a rough translation of Ishvara (sp) 
> from Patanjali.
> 
> But note that he does *not* say the mantras are
> names of gods.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: ME for USA

[nablus108]

Did the americans manage 1700 ?

If not, it is a historic event. First failiure of the TMO.
 
Could have tragic consequenses.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[nablus108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"  
> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Sorry, I am not playing this game with you.
> > 
> > OK then. You claimed a point I made was inaccurate. I sought
> > clarificaion. You obsfucated and punted as usual. (Usually a sign 
> of
> > no substantive points to make)
> > 
> > As I said earlier, but unheeded by you, your incorrect casting, 
as 
> a
> > game, the discussions of serious issues (false claims of
> > enlightenment, cognitive errors, misinterpretation of experiences)
> > appears to further reflect the emptiness of your claims. 
> > 
> > If you don't like games, perhaps you can cease your apparently
> > delusional claims (explicit or implicit) of being in MMY/TMO BC 
and
> > your imaginary powers that you feel stem from that.
> > 
> > The earlier, non-refuted, point stands (with minor edits):
> > 
> > What is really odd and funny, if not delusional, is that we
> > are asked, by implication, to suspend disbelief and support the
> > notion, that Jim who has such poor comprehension skills, and who
> > regularly makes cognitive errors, is able to clearly interpret his
> > experiences, and self-proclaim himself as in BC.
> >
> 
> Where on earth do you get this idea that when someone posts 
> something they are asking by implication that it be supported by 
> those on this board? 
> 
> I am stupified that you think that. I've always just seen any of 
the 
> posts here as points of view offered up as the poster's truth of 
the 
> moment, but not necessarily anyone else's.
> 
> You can claim anything you want about me or yourself and I am free 
> to do the same, and if it does or doesn't fit into your neat little 
> logical boxes, tough tiddly winks, bro.
>

No worries Jim, he is just trying to wear you out.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 8/22/06 9:11 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > What he's saying makes perfect sense on its face; it's
> > virtually a truism: to claim MMY-style enlightenment
> > (not new morning's own definition), you need to meet
> > the criteria MMY has set for it.
> > 
> Did I ever say that the people I was referring to were claiming MMY-
style
> enlightenment? Seems to me they are saying they¹ve woken up, and are 
happy
> to use any terminology that helps to describe their experience. MMY¹s 
often
> does, and they have that background, so they often use it. But just as
> often, they use other terminology if it¹s more suitable.

I believe new morning was addressing Jim, Rick, not you,
wasn't he?






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: ME for USA

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: ME for USA





on 8/22/06 4:17 PM, nablus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>Did the americans manage 1700 ?

No.

>If not, it is a historic event. First failiure of the TMO.

First?!
>  
> Could have tragic consequenses.

Or none at all.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
>  wrote:
> >
> > However, one can realize that shift in
> > identity without being able to perform esoteric parlor tricks.
> > Claiming that one is not awake unless he's witnessing 24/7 is
> > absurd;
> 
> And is any one making that absurd claim? Not that i have read.

It's my impression from past discussions on FFL that TM people *are*
making that claim.
 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > In 'Meditation: easy system propounded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi' 
> > (c1959) there is to be found a series of questions which includes 
> the 
> > following:
> > Q. How does meditation improve the fortune of a man?
> > A. Our system of meditation involves the All Mighty Power. We take 
> > the 'MANTRA' of some God according to our faith and meditate on 
> that. 
> > The power of the 'MANTRA' brings to us the Almighty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grad students studying ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) should 
> now tune in to observe Judy Stein's next 40 posts in which she will 
> demonstrate that Maharishi did NOT mean in that quote that TM 
> mantras are the names of gods.
> 
> And then she will call you a liar.
> 


Er, the usual definition of mantra isn't "name."





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[nablus108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> I thought this post relevant to FFL because a lot of people in FF, 
and
> TMOers, present, and former actives, listen to music. And have
> listened to and admired Bob Dylan. (Does this meet the Doug test for
> explaining relevancy?)
> 
> And so many Dylan lines are relevant to the themes of FFL. A few 
that
> come to mind:
> 
> "Something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you Mr. 
Jones?"
> 
> "She knows too much to argue or to judge."
> 
> "An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing."
> 
> "I am younger than that now"
> 
> "Time will tell who as fell, and who has been left behind, when you 
go
> your way and I go mine." 
> 
> "I pity the poor immigrant whose strength is spent in vain,"
> 
> "All along the watchtower, princes [and rajas[ kept the view "
> 
> "There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief,
> there's too much confusion, I can't get no relief."
> 
> "Ezra Pound and TS Elliot, fighting in the captain's tower, while
> calypso singers laugh at them And fishermen hold flowers"
> 
> 
> Great comentaries could be written on these sutras -- unfolding 
great
> truths.
> ==
> 
> 
> 
> LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Bob Dylan says modern recordings sound
> "atrocious," and even the songs on his new album sounded much better
> in the studio than on disc.
> Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless
> 
> "I don't know anybody who's made a record that sounds decent in the
> past twenty years, really," the 65-year-old rocker said in an
> interview with Rolling Stone magazine.
> 
> Dylan, who released eight studio albums in that time, returns with 
his
> first recording in five years, "Modern Times," next Tuesday.
> 
> Noting the music industry's complaints that illegal downloading 
means
> people are getting their music for free, he said, "Well, why not? It
> ain't worth nothing anyway."
> 
> "You listen to these modern records, they're atrocious, they have
> sound all over them," he added. "There's no definition of nothing, 
no
> vocal, no nothing, just like ... static."
> 
> Dylan said he does his best to fight technology, but it's a losing 
battle.
> 
> "Even these songs probably sounded ten times better in the studio 
when
> we recorded 'em. CDs are small. There's no stature to it."

 It is interesting to observe, that even though the americans are the 
most dangerous and aggressive people on earth right now, some great 
souls are being incarnated in that country. Bob Dylan ofcourse being 
one of them. Some of the more interesting people I have met have been 
americans; photographers, writers and painters. Yet they are 
sorrounded by a population so bizarre and simple.

Run to get "Modern Times". And if you do not already have it, 
get "Time Out of Mind", thats pure Vedanta, IMHO.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> New,
> It wasn't really a question of who is and who isn't being accepted 
> (although I would argue that the rejection of *anyone* for any reason 
> other than a fear (based on some kind of reality) that they might be 
> dangerous, would a good enough reason for everyone else to stay away) 

I would suggest as others have, that an additional valid reuirement is
to only do TMO programs in the Dome.


As I pointed out in a post several months agom, that may be easier
said than done. (Using Rick and his use of an AMMA matra as an example.)  

> but of Ken's contention that everyone should apply, regardless of where 
> they are and what other obligations they might have...

His is not a particularly resposibilble position IMO -- regarding
abandoning obligations. I left a new job in lat 70s to respond to an
ULTRA emeergency project -- cedntral americal I think. After rushing
to the Capitol, then waiting around for threee weeks, then driving to
the airport, and having the TMO goofer-guy forget the passports --
back to the Capitol for another several weeks -- i sort of lost my
urgency. Or lost the reflex witin me that responded immediately to all
TMO clarion calls. (Watching, and literally being trampled by,
"high-evolved sidhas -- ruling the trends of time" as they rushed for
the ice cream as it was put out at nights, was an eye-opener too.
Cogitive dissonance and all.

> and also, that it 
> should somehow not bother anyone else that people are being 
> discriminated against by these rejections, forcibly ejected from the 
> Domes, etc.

That gets to my primary point. How many are being forcefully ejected
from the domes? How many are being rejected. My impression is that its
very few. And in some, if not most cases, it kind of makes sense --
Shivama being a good example, IMO.

> Doesn't any of that bother you?  

If only a handful are being forcefully ejected from the domes or
rejected, and for those that are there is some pretty extreme
circumstances behind it, I am not heavily bothered. Thats why I asked,
how frequent are these rejections?


I thought the days of people laying 
> guilt trips on others, while also telling them to ignore their own 
> better judgment, were over. 

Agreed. Per above, heavy handed recruiting / guilt-trips are so 80's.
Quite passe.

> the fact that they are asking for SS #s (or so I understood) is 
> troubling

As judy has pointed out, many ask for it. I routinely refuse if its
irrelevant. Or if that stops my application, I put in a "creative" one. 

  





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > In 'Meditation: easy system propounded by Maharishi Mahesh 
Yogi' 
> > > (c1959) there is to be found a series of questions which 
includes 
> > the 
> > > following:
> > > Q. How does meditation improve the fortune of a man?
> > > A. Our system of meditation involves the All Mighty Power. We 
> take 
> > > the 'MANTRA' of some God according to our faith and meditate 
on 
> > that. 
> > > The power of the 'MANTRA' brings to us the Almighty
> > 
> > Grad students studying ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) 
should 
> > now tune in to observe Judy Stein's next 40 posts in which she 
will 
> > demonstrate that Maharishi did NOT mean in that quote that TM 
> > mantras are the names of gods.
> > 
> > And then she will call you a liar.
> 
> If you say he meant the TM mantras are the names
> of gods, yes indeedy.
> 
> Or perhaps just illiterate.


Perhaps the gods are illiterate.

As long as they do the what they're supposed to do when we invoke 
their names during the practise of TM, who cares whether they can 
read or write?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY, Old Age

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  wrote:
> > Actually, brain-functioning doesn't deteriorate all that much just
> because you get old, and 
> > MMY doesn't show any signs of a stroke that I can see. Would you ask
> if people lose the 
> > ability to sleep or dream just because they got old?
> 
> Actually, the MD/PH.d (neurology) that I used to take my mom -- with
> alzhiemers -- to said "If you live to be old enough, you will develop
> Alszheimers."  Alzhiemers, amonsgt other things, is a gooping up of
> the brain with plaque and all. And it happens to everyone according to
> him, given enough time. For some it starts earlier than others.
> 
> I have not found strong confirmation of this in Alzhiemers articles --
> though I have not looked hard. And this guy, young, weel read in
> current research, dual doctoral degrees from major universities,
> appeared convinced of his statements. 
> 
> Kind of puts the TMO immortality model in perspective "everything just
> keeps changing, the body keeps changing, but it never dies." Perhaps
> it changes into a no-memory, near comotose living entity -- and then more.
>

Times have changed. Google "aging vs alzheimer's." There are plenty of 
documentable 
differences between normal aging and alzheimer's. While it is conceivable that 
a 200-year-
old person might have as much plaque and tangles and so on as in an AD patient, 
the 
literature makes a BIG distinction betwen the two. The Alzheimer's associations 
even have 
brochures titled "Normal aging vs Alzheimer's" and the like.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bob Dylan says modern music is worthless

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> "Does this have anything to do with the Bacon book that Spairaig
> mentioned?"
> 
> Absolutely.  The first title of MMY's publication was the Bacon-lite
> of the Himalayas.  This is a little known fact.
> 

Extolling the virtues of eating pork over beef, as any good Hindu would...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > "All the mantras I teach in TM are the names of Hindu gods and I 
> > > don't care what Alan Dershowitz or the Superior Court of New Jersey 
> > > says about it!"
> > >  -- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, March 7, 1966.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > LOL. As you know, the court case was in the mid-70's...
> 
> 
> Obviously and clearly, MMY knew the future in detail in 1966. :)
> As would be expected of a TMO / enlightened one -- clear experience of
> the sidhis.
>

Yep. Did that layers of meaning thing, too...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > However, one can realize that shift in
> > > identity without being able to perform esoteric parlor tricks.
> > > Claiming that one is not awake unless he's witnessing 24/7 is
> > > absurd;
> > 
> > And is any one making that absurd claim? Not that i have read.
> 
> It's my impression from past discussions on FFL that TM people *are*
> making that claim.

I don't recall such. And i have participated in many of those
discussions. 

However, it is correct IMO, to reject  claims of TMO / MMY
enlighenment simply because one has solely made "the shift' that you
refer to, or solely "there is no "'I" -- and does display the
attributes the TMO says are required and necessary markers of what it
refers to as enlightenment.

Whats that ad? "its not done til i say its done". 

Apply that caption to a picture of MMY looking skepically at a student
giving him a flower and you get my point.

 
 






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