[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May perhaps be a different phenomenon then; I have noticed this particularly when I am fully rested and collected, and the thoughts are of nothing other than their own emergence from the Unmanifest; the suffering appears to be inherent in manifestation itself :-) -It's unfortunate you feel this way when that stream of consciousness is the very purpose of relative life. You cannot have the Brahman consciousness without the dynamism of the silent state. Brahman is not merely silent kaivalya. Back to the purva mimansa for you. *lol* Who said Brahman was merely the silent kaivalya, nor that the subtle suffering of manifestation was other than Brahman? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I was in a bit of a hurry earlier and didn't express it very well-- going from pure transparent clear light into colors very definitely has a flavor of suffering to it. I'll have to watch more carefully to comment more on this. Its strange, that much I can say, because the suffering is entirely associated with the colors or flavors of consciousness, and yet unavoidable, relatively speaking (vs entirely unknown Unmanifestly). Right! Very odd indeed; perhaps the suffering is merely the slight resistance encountered as one enters a denser medium :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I was in a bit of a hurry earlier and didn't express it very well-- going from pure transparent clear light into colors very definitely has a flavor of suffering to it. I'll have to watch more carefully to comment more on this. Its strange, that much I can say, because the suffering is entirely associated with the colors or flavors of consciousness, and yet unavoidable, relatively speaking (vs entirely unknown Unmanifestly). Right! Very odd indeed; perhaps the suffering is merely the slight resistance encountered as one enters a denser medium :-) Perhaps this is a good definition for *all* suffering -- even the suffering of our stories. The pain involved in running them would be Nature's way of telling us we are entering a denser medium, in this case that of the concrete mind (the believer in spacetime, self/other) -- one contrary to our evolution at this moment, which would perhaps be into identifying with our pre-existent Buddha- nature of eternal intuition. This would *not* however appear to be the same phenomenon as the Great Immensity (Brahman) contracting into a point-source of utter bliss (Krishna), where there seems to be no suffering whatsoever...:-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My own theory? Assuming that MMY was off the program with some lady or ladies at some point, he later had pangs of guilt that he projected on everyone else... It's always possible. Also, one phenomenon that definitely appears in spiritual teachers is the Do what I say, not what I do thang. One of the reasons that some traditions don't let anyone become a teacher until they been *trained* for it is that the teaching biz is tricky. One picks up energy from one's students, and if one does not know how to handle it and disperse it, all that focused attention can warp the teacher and take them off their line. In such instances, it is sadly common for the teacher to develop the idea that they are past the need to follow the guidelines that apply to lesser students. Happens all the time, in almost every tradition. Me, I'm not one of those who is terribly hung up about Maharishi boinking some students. If it happened, it happened. Shit happens. I don't even believe that such actions are *necessarily* (that is, innately or per se) a bad thing. There are ways that such relationships can be handled to the benefit of both teacher and student. But most are *not* handled that way in the West, and almost by definition, if the affair is kept secret, it isn't being handled very gracefully. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/5/05 4:27 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My own theory? Assuming that MMY was off the program with some lady or ladies at some point, he later had pangs of guilt that he projected on everyone else... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi's absence of celibacy vows may absolve him of accusations of hypocrisy, but it makes one wonder why he asked people in his organization to abstain from sex. The most unsavory explanation is that he did it to wield power over them. The best case scenario, I suppose, is that for those people at that time, celibacy was a good thing. Maybe Rick can find time to poll people who abstained to get their perspectives on the experience. Anyone can start a poll, but I'm convinced that celibacy has been very good for me. I think I needed it to compensate for my youthful excesses. I was celibate myself for a long time, but it was a miserable week, so I gave it up. Just kidding. That's the line that used to get me laid a lot back when I was working in the TM movement. Really. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/5/05 4:27 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My own theory? Assuming that MMY was off the program with some lady or ladies at some point, he later had pangs of guilt that he projected on everyone else... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi's absence of celibacy vows may absolve him of accusations of hypocrisy, but it makes one wonder why he asked people in his organization to abstain from sex. The most unsavory explanation is that he did it to wield power over them. The best case scenario, I suppose, is that for those people at that time, celibacy was a good thing. Maybe Rick can find time to poll people who abstained to get their perspectives on the experience. Anyone can start a poll, but I'm convinced that celibacy has been very good for me. I think I needed it to compensate for my youthful excesses. I was celibate myself for a long time, but it was a miserable week, so I gave it up. Just kidding. That's the line that used to get me laid a lot back when I was working in the TM movement. Really. :-) Never worked for me. Then again, becoming a wannabe world-class classical guitarist never worked for me either. Owning my own rental property business hasn't worked either. My guess is it's a personality/personal appearance thing. When I was young and skinny and in good shape, women didn't care that I was strange OR that I was one of the better guitarists around. Now that I'm older, fat, out of shape, etc., personality becomes much more important. Either that, or my taste has improved drastically in the past decade or so and I've stopped trying to impress women who fail to impress me. YMMV. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was celibate myself for a long time, but it was a miserable week, so I gave it up. Just kidding. That's the line that used to get me laid a lot back when I was working in the TM movement. Really. :-) Never worked for me. Then again, becoming a wannabe world-class classical guitarist never worked for me either. Owning my own rental property business hasn't worked either. The world of guitar fans and real estate probably isn't full of as many horny women dismayed by the fact that most of the male guitarists and real estate agents they meet have been seduced by the idea of celibacy and aren't interested in them. That was the situation in the TM movement in the 70s. I was never attracted to celibacy. A lot of the guy teachers were, or claimed to be. My one-liner made my position very clear, and as a result I made out like a bandit. My guess is it's a personality/personal appearance thing. When I was young and skinny and in good shape, women didn't care that I was strange OR that I was one of the better guitarists around. Now that I'm older, fat, out of shape, etc., personality becomes much more important. I've never exactly been a Brad Pitt lookalike, but I managed admirably anyway during that period, probably because it was obvious that I was still interested in sex, and many of the other guy teachers weren't. In other words, if you had been one of the *only* non-celibate guitarists around, I suspect your batting average would have gone up. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/5/05 4:27 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My own theory? Assuming that MMY was off the program with some lady or ladies at some point, he later had pangs of guilt that he projected on everyone else... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi's absence of celibacy vows may absolve him of accusations of hypocrisy, but it makes one wonder why he asked people in his organization to abstain from sex. The most unsavory explanation is that he did it to wield power over them. The best case scenario, I suppose, is that for those people at that time, celibacy was a good thing. Maybe Rick can find time to poll people who abstained to get their perspectives on the experience. Anyone can start a poll, but I'm convinced that celibacy has been very good for me. I think I needed it to compensate for my youthful excesses. I was celibate myself for a long time, but it was a miserable week, so I gave it up. Just kidding. That's the line that used to get me laid a lot back when I was working in the TM movement. Really. :-) Never worked for me. Then again, becoming a wannabe world-class classical guitarist never worked for me either. Owning my own rental property business hasn't worked either. My guess is it's a personality/personal appearance thing. When I was young and skinny and in good shape, women didn't care that I was strange OR that I was one of the better guitarists around. Wow! I'm by far the worst drummer in this block (naah...). What kind of music did you play? Classical only? Now that I'm older, fat, out of shape, etc., personality becomes much more important. Either that, or my taste has improved drastically in the past decade or so and I've stopped trying to impress women who fail to impress me. YMMV. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
I hear meditation helps free the mind from timecramp (some say it can take as little as 5 or 8 or 30 years!); I have found this discursive shit (together with bodymind breath/attention) to be most helpful in *very quickly* unravelling suffering... :-)-You can ask lots of questions but do you then question the answers to the questions as well? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hear meditation helps free the mind from timecramp (some say it can take as little as 5 or 8 or 30 years!); I have found this discursive shit (together with bodymind breath/attention) to be most helpful in *very quickly* unravelling suffering... :-) -You can ask lots of questions but do you then question the answers to the questions as well? In my experience, the benefit comes from the questioning, not from finding answers. The more I ask the questions, the less I know, and the happier I seem to be. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
Comments interleaved below. Patrick Gillam wrote: Maybe Rick can find time to poll people who abstained to get their perspectives on the experience. Rick Archer wrote: Anyone can start a poll, but I'm convinced that celibacy has been very good for me. I think I needed it to compensate for my youthful excesses. When I suggested you poll people, Rick, I thought you might ask those friends who dabbled in celibacy what their thoughts are on the experience. You're a Connector in the Tipping Point sense of the word, and could probably gather a batch of interesting perspectives in the course of an afternoon of errand running. Getting other people's opinions doesn't address your core question below, but it does speak to the rightness of prescribing celibacy for people in their 20s. [Maharishi's] response [to people who could have exposed him] was to banish and discredit those responsible. Was that fair to them? Again, this is a testable proposition. I suspect most people are going to feel as you do -- that being banished was a good thing. Maybe not fair, but ultimately good. We cannot explain MMY's motives and behaviors, but we can our own. And that may give us insights into MMY's. It's like when physicists can't examine some hidden aspect of creation, but they *can* measure its effects on the surrounding environment, and thereby get perspectives on the nature of the black hole or quantum field. (At least I think that's how science works.) - Patrick Gillam To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
TurquoiseB wrote: In my experience, the benefit comes from the questioning, not from finding answers. The more I ask the questions, the less I know, and the happier I seem to be. It's the Byron Katie work applied to everything. - PJG To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
on 8/6/05 9:09 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Maharishi's] response [to people who could have exposed him] was to banish and discredit those responsible. Was that fair to them? I was thinking of Rory's response to this (have you always been fair to Maharishi; to yourself?) Doesn't this Byron Katie stuff have its limitations? Let's say someone is a serial killer and I judge that as wrong. Would you ask, have you been a serial killer? Have you serial killed yourself? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/6/05 9:09 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Maharishi's] response [to people who could have exposed him] was to banish and discredit those responsible. Was that fair to them? I was thinking of Rory's response to this (have you always been fair to Maharishi; to yourself?) Doesn't this Byron Katie stuff have its limitations? Let's say someone is a serial killer and I judge that as wrong. Would you ask, have you been a serial killer? Have you serial killed yourself? Given some spiritual theories that you are not likely to find your way to self discovery unless you've got about 10,000 incarnations under your belt, it's not out of the question. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
on 8/6/05 11:29 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/6/05 9:09 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Maharishi's] response [to people who could have exposed him] was to banish and discredit those responsible. Was that fair to them? I was thinking of Rory's response to this (have you always been fair to Maharishi; to yourself?) Doesn't this Byron Katie stuff have its limitations? Let's say someone is a serial killer and I judge that as wrong. Would you ask, have you been a serial killer? Have you serial killed yourself? Given some spiritual theories that you are not likely to find your way to self discovery unless you've got about 10,000 incarnations under your belt, it's not out of the question. :-) OK, but even if I've been one, that still doesn't make it excusable. I must have faced, or should face, the consequences. Maybe I'm misinterpreting Byron Katie. I haven't read her carefully enough. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hear meditation helps free the mind from timecramp (some say it can take as little as 5 or 8 or 30 years!); I have found this discursive shit (together with bodymind breath/attention) to be most helpful in *very quickly* unravelling suffering... :-) -You can ask lots of questions but do you then question the answers to the questions as well? We check the bodymind for its feeling-response. If suffering persists, more work is indicated. If not, not :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/6/05 9:09 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Maharishi's] response [to people who could have exposed him] was to banish and discredit those responsible. Was that fair to them? I was thinking of Rory's response to this (have you always been fair to Maharishi; to yourself?) Doesn't this Byron Katie stuff have its limitations? Let's say someone is a serial killer and I judge that as wrong. Would you ask, have you been a serial killer? Have you serial killed yourself? If the thought that serial killing was wrong was accompanied by the feeling of suffering, I would do inquiry on it, sure. And yes, I would undoubtedly find the serial killer in me, just as everything else exists in me... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/6/05 11:29 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/6/05 9:09 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Maharishi's] response [to people who could have exposed him] was to banish and discredit those responsible. Was that fair to them? I was thinking of Rory's response to this (have you always been fair to Maharishi; to yourself?) Doesn't this Byron Katie stuff have its limitations? Let's say someone is a serial killer and I judge that as wrong. Would you ask, have you been a serial killer? Have you serial killed yourself? Given some spiritual theories that you are not likely to find your way to self discovery unless you've got about 10,000 incarnations under your belt, it's not out of the question. :-) OK, but even if I've been one, that still doesn't make it excusable. I must have faced, or should face, the consequences. Of course. Finding the serial killer in yourself will bring that portion into full consciousness, removing its ability to run you through your unconscious. It will have become integrated, healed, made whole. You not only will cease entertaining that previously- denied portion in a non-life-supporting manner; you will probably be finding yourself consciously atoning for the acts which that denied portion of yourself had done. Often, a self-righteous judgement is a clue that we are projecting some denied portion of Life outside ourselves so we can safely condemn it. IMO this is what Jesus meant when saying Judge not, lest ye be judged. In the deepest sense, when we judge we are *always* judging ourselves. This keeps perpetuating the karma of dis- integration, for essentially whatever we judge we later find ourselves acting out, so we can understand it from the inside. Maybe I'm misinterpreting Byron Katie. I haven't read her carefully enough. Yes, she is worth reading carefully. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
on 8/6/05 12:35 PM, Rory Goff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course. Finding the serial killer in yourself will bring that portion into full consciousness, removing its ability to run you through your unconscious. It will have become integrated, healed, made whole. You not only will cease entertaining that previously- denied portion in a non-life-supporting manner; you will probably be finding yourself consciously atoning for the acts which that denied portion of yourself had done. Often, a self-righteous judgement is a clue that we are projecting some denied portion of Life outside ourselves so we can safely condemn it. IMO this is what Jesus meant when saying Judge not, lest ye be judged. In the deepest sense, when we judge we are *always* judging ourselves. This keeps perpetuating the karma of dis- integration, for essentially whatever we judge we later find ourselves acting out, so we can understand it from the inside. Thanks for the feedback. I'm sure I'm capable of doing the things I've criticized Maharishi for doing. One question. Is there a way of being non-judgmentally judgmental? What if you're a professional judge, and a Byron Katie student? It's your job to judge and sentence people. You can't just sit there all day say, Oh yeah, I can see this guy's faults in myself. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/6/05 12:35 PM, Rory Goff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course. Finding the serial killer in yourself will bring that portion into full consciousness, removing its ability to run you through your unconscious. It will have become integrated, healed, made whole. You not only will cease entertaining that previously- denied portion in a non-life-supporting manner; you will probably be finding yourself consciously atoning for the acts which that denied portion of yourself had done. Often, a self-righteous judgement is a clue that we are projecting some denied portion of Life outside ourselves so we can safely condemn it. IMO this is what Jesus meant when saying Judge not, lest ye be judged. In the deepest sense, when we judge we are *always* judging ourselves. This keeps perpetuating the karma of dis- integration, for essentially whatever we judge we later find ourselves acting out, so we can understand it from the inside. Thanks for the feedback. I'm sure I'm capable of doing the things I've criticized Maharishi for doing. One question. Is there a way of being non-judgmentally judgmental? What if you're a professional judge, and a Byron Katie student? It's your job to judge and sentence people. You can't just sit there all day say, Oh yeah, I can see this guy's faults in myself. If you can, you will perhaps be a better judge :-) A judge's job is to judge -- he will probably be more just if he acts from Wisdom and Understanding, rather than from self-righteous, holier-than-thou denial. Actions have consequences; crime evokes punishment or ideally atonement. One who administers the judgement and sentencing can do so in compassion as well as (genuine) righteousness. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you can, you will perhaps be a better judge :-) A judge's job is to judge -- he will probably be more just if he acts from Wisdom and Understanding, rather than from self-righteous, holier-than-thou denial. Actions have consequences; crime evokes punishment or ideally atonement. One who administers the judgement and sentencing can do so in compassion as well as (genuine) righteousness. It would be like an integrated adult, who has acknowledged and healed their inner child, and is theoretically thus better able to deal with the misdeeds of their actual child than would the unintegrated adult. An example of the latter might be BushCo's apparent approach to terrorism (fighting it out there while actually inciting more of it with the torture-and-terrorism tactics of their own unintegrated shadow-side). This would apparently be self-righteous, holier-than- thou denial and unintegrated judgement, and as you can see, the results are less than ideal :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/5/05 4:27 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My own theory? Assuming that MMY was off the program with some lady or ladies at some point, he later had pangs of guilt that he projected on everyone else... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi's absence of celibacy vows may absolve him of accusations of hypocrisy, but it makes one wonder why he asked people in his organization to abstain from sex. The most unsavory explanation is that he did it to wield power over them. The best case scenario, I suppose, is that for those people at that time, celibacy was a good thing. Maybe Rick can find time to poll people who abstained to get their perspectives on the experience. Anyone can start a poll, but I'm convinced that celibacy has been very good for me. I think I needed it to compensate for my youthful excesses. I was celibate myself for a long time, but it was a miserable week, so I gave it up. Just kidding. That's the line that used to get me laid a lot back when I was working in the TM movement. Really. :-) Never worked for me. Then again, becoming a wannabe world-class classical guitarist never worked for me either. Owning my own rental property business hasn't worked either. My guess is it's a personality/personal appearance thing. When I was young and skinny and in good shape, women didn't care that I was strange OR that I was one of the better guitarists around. Wow! I'm by far the worst drummer in this block (naah...). What kind of music did you play? Classical only? Classical only, yeah. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/6/05 9:09 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Maharishi's] response [to people who could have exposed him] was to banish and discredit those responsible. Was that fair to them? I was thinking of Rory's response to this (have you always been fair to Maharishi; to yourself?) Doesn't this Byron Katie stuff have its limitations? Let's say someone is a serial killer and I judge that as wrong. Would you ask, have you been a serial killer? Have you serial killed yourself? Given some spiritual theories that you are not likely to find your way to self discovery unless you've got about 10,000 incarnations under your belt, it's not out of the question. :-) I am Indra. I can do this, that and the other thing!!! See that line of ants walking by? They were all once Indra as well... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
- Original Message - From: Rory Goff To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 12:10 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: I hear meditation helps free the mind from timecramp (some say it can take as little as 5 or 8 or 30 years!); I have found this discursive shit (together with bodymind breath/attention) to be most helpful in *very quickly* unravelling suffering... :-) -You can ask lots of questions but do you then question the answers to the questions as well?We check the bodymind for its feeling-response. If suffering persists, more work is indicated. If not, not :-)Sounds like work with the Rudras. All thoughts shot down at their inception so as to maintain tabula rasa. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
An example of the latter might be BushCo's apparent approach to terrorism (fighting it "out there" while actually inciting more of it with the torture-and-terrorism tactics of their own unintegrated shadow-side). This would apparently be self-righteous, holier-than-thou denial and unintegrated judgement, and as you can see, the results are less than ideal :-)Ihate the ignorance that says that Christians should be mighty and pound down their foes. How can Bush claim to be Christian without the mercy of cheek turning? Same with those who applaud him. Apparently the Republican version of Jesus' teachings is easier than the actual Jesus version. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Rory Goff To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 12:10 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hear meditation helps free the mind from timecramp (some say it can take as little as 5 or 8 or 30 years!); I have found this discursive shit (together with bodymind breath/attention) to be most helpful in *very quickly* unravelling suffering... :-) -You can ask lots of questions but do you then question the answers to the questions as well? We check the bodymind for its feeling-response. If suffering persists, more work is indicated. If not, not :-) Sounds like work with the Rudras. All thoughts shot down at their inception so as to maintain tabula rasa. I wonder, does *all* thought involve suffering? At certain times (when life and death tremble together on the verge of THAT), that understanding has indeed seemed self-evident, at least if we can define a spectrum as suffering light; at other times, not so evident. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An example of the latter might be BushCo's apparent approach to terrorism (fighting it out there while actually inciting more of it with the torture-and-terrorism tactics of their own unintegrated shadow-side). This would apparently be self-righteous, holier-than- thou denial and unintegrated judgement, and as you can see, the results are less than ideal :-) I hate the ignorance that says that Christians should be mighty and pound down their foes. How can Bush claim to be Christian without the mercy of cheek turning? Same with those who applaud him. Apparently the Republican version of Jesus' teachings is easier than the actual Jesus version. Easier for some; impossible for others :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Rory Goff To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 12:10 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hear meditation helps free the mind from timecramp (some say it can take as little as 5 or 8 or 30 years!); I have found this discursive shit (together with bodymind breath/attention) to be most helpful in *very quickly* unravelling suffering... :-) -You can ask lots of questions but do you then question the answers to the questions as well? We check the bodymind for its feeling-response. If suffering persists, more work is indicated. If not, not :-) Sounds like work with the Rudras. All thoughts shot down at their inception so as to maintain tabula rasa. I wonder, does *all* thought involve suffering? At certain times (when life and death tremble together on the verge of THAT), that understanding has indeed seemed self-evident, at least if we can define a spectrum as suffering light; at other times, not so evident. My experience on the verge of THAT was *any* thought led me into confusion, stories and denial of my true nature. In other words, a false time and space bound reality. it was truly hell on earth. but that's just me ;) Thoughts seemed at that time to be generated to protect my stories, whereas now they just arise of their own accord and due to my state of inner freedom, I am able to entertain them or not. There is no longer a connection of my thoughts to that which I identify as me. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My experience on the verge of THAT was *any* thought led me into confusion, stories and denial of my true nature. In other words, a false time and space bound reality. it was truly hell on earth. but that's just me ;) Thoughts seemed at that time to be generated to protect my stories, whereas now they just arise of their own accord and due to my state of inner freedom, I am able to entertain them or not. There is no longer a connection of my thoughts to that which I identify as me. All good points, Jim; many thanks :-) -- I appreciate and agree with your POV of just-before Brahman, then moving fully into Brahman. My intended point actually was slightly different; I should have said, when life and death tremble on the edge of the Unmanifest, as opposed to the edge of THAT (which is indeed the Wholeness or Brahman of which you speak); here one would be perceiving the thoughts emerging from the Unmanifest, and there is or can be something of a quality of extremely subtle suffering to them -- not like the old story-bound suffering, but (as mentioned) like the suffering of light split into color :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My experience on the verge of THAT was *any* thought led me into confusion, stories and denial of my true nature. In other words, a false time and space bound reality. it was truly hell on earth. but that's just me ;) Thoughts seemed at that time to be generated to protect my stories, whereas now they just arise of their own accord and due to my state of inner freedom, I am able to entertain them or not. There is no longer a connection of my thoughts to that which I identify as me. All good points, Jim; many thanks :-) -- I appreciate and agree with your POV of just-before Brahman, then moving fully into Brahman. My intended point actually was slightly different; I should have said, when life and death tremble on the edge of the Unmanifest, as opposed to the edge of THAT (which is indeed the Wholeness or Brahman of which you speak); here one would be perceiving the thoughts emerging from the Unmanifest, and there is or can be something of a quality of extremely subtle suffering to them -- not like the old story-bound suffering, but (as mentioned) like the suffering of light split into color :-) Yep, I've been noticing that too- seems to be just the normal adjustments to daily life, such as when I work a lot, and then my thoughts are full of work stuff- carry over of the momentum or something. Like the colors of which you speak. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My experience on the verge of THAT was *any* thought led me into confusion, stories and denial of my true nature. In other words, a false time and space bound reality. it was truly hell on earth. but that's just me ;) Thoughts seemed at that time to be generated to protect my stories, whereas now they just arise of their own accord and due to my state of inner freedom, I am able to entertain them or not. There is no longer a connection of my thoughts to that which I identify as me. All good points, Jim; many thanks :-) -- I appreciate and agree with your POV of just-before Brahman, then moving fully into Brahman. My intended point actually was slightly different; I should have said, when life and death tremble on the edge of the Unmanifest, as opposed to the edge of THAT (which is indeed the Wholeness or Brahman of which you speak); here one would be perceiving the thoughts emerging from the Unmanifest, and there is or can be something of a quality of extremely subtle suffering to them -- not like the old story-bound suffering, but (as mentioned) like the suffering of light split into color :-) Yep, I've been noticing that too- seems to be just the normal adjustments to daily life, such as when I work a lot, and then my thoughts are full of work stuff- carry over of the momentum or something. Like the colors of which you speak. May perhaps be a different phenomenon then; I have noticed this particularly when I am fully rested and collected, and the thoughts are of nothing other than their own emergence from the Unmanifest; the suffering appears to be inherent in manifestation itself :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
May perhaps be a different phenomenon then; I have noticed this particularly when I am fully rested and collected, and the thoughts are of nothing other than their own emergence from the Unmanifest; the "suffering" appears to be inherent in manifestation itself :-)-It's unfortunate you feel this way when that stream of consciousness is the very purpose of relative life. You cannot have the Brahman consciousness without the dynamism of the silent state. Brahman is not merely silent kaivalya. Back to the purva mimansa for you. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My experience on the verge of THAT was *any* thought led me into confusion, stories and denial of my true nature. In other words, a false time and space bound reality. it was truly hell on earth. but that's just me ;) Thoughts seemed at that time to be generated to protect my stories, whereas now they just arise of their own accord and due to my state of inner freedom, I am able to entertain them or not. There is no longer a connection of my thoughts to that which I identify as me. All good points, Jim; many thanks :-) -- I appreciate and agree with your POV of just-before Brahman, then moving fully into Brahman. My intended point actually was slightly different; I should have said, when life and death tremble on the edge of the Unmanifest, as opposed to the edge of THAT (which is indeed the Wholeness or Brahman of which you speak); here one would be perceiving the thoughts emerging from the Unmanifest, and there is or can be something of a quality of extremely subtle suffering to them -- not like the old story-bound suffering, but (as mentioned) like the suffering of light split into color :-) Yep, I've been noticing that too- seems to be just the normal adjustments to daily life, such as when I work a lot, and then my thoughts are full of work stuff- carry over of the momentum or something. Like the colors of which you speak. May perhaps be a different phenomenon then; I have noticed this particularly when I am fully rested and collected, and the thoughts are of nothing other than their own emergence from the Unmanifest; the suffering appears to be inherent in manifestation itself :-) Yes, I was in a bit of a hurry earlier and didn't express it very well-- going from pure transparent clear light into colors very definitely has a flavor of suffering to it. I'll have to watch more carefully to comment more on this. Its strange, that much I can say, because the suffering is entirely associated with the colors or flavors of consciousness, and yet unavoidable, relatively speaking (vs entirely unknown Unmanifestly). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May perhaps be a different phenomenon then; I have noticed this particularly when I am fully rested and collected, and the thoughts are of nothing other than their own emergence from the Unmanifest; the suffering appears to be inherent in manifestation itself :-) -It's unfortunate you feel this way when that stream of consciousness is the very purpose of relative life. You cannot have the Brahman consciousness without the dynamism of the silent state. Brahman is not merely silent kaivalya. Back to the purva mimansa for you. What Rory appears to be commenting on and please correct me if otherwise is this curious phenomenon where the Unmanifest manifests itself into thought and in so doing there is a subtle suffering that goes along with it. The phenomenon appears to be similar to that as represented by the staff that Guru Dev carried with him while on earth, his link to the manifest, a tether if you will, that is both necessary and intentional and at the same time carries a vibration of suffering or perhaps subtle separation with it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
Maharishi's absence of celibacy vows may absolve him of accusations of hypocrisy, but it makes one wonder why he asked people in his organization to abstain from sex. The most unsavory explanation is that he did it to wield power over them. The best case scenario, I suppose, is that for those people at that time, celibacy was a good thing. Maybe Rick can find time to poll people who abstained to get their perspectives on the experience. - Patrick Gillam P.S. I've only been following these discussions with one eye, but it's fascinating to see how we read meanings into things. It's a theme this group has come back to again and again. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -An old BBC interview with Maharishi, where he discusses his vow of celibacy and on being a monk. http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/audiointerviews/profilepages/maharishi1. shtml Interesting, and thanks for posting this link, but he doesn't actually mention celibacy in the segment. He speaks in general terms in answer to the interviewer's question, in terms of restraining from the worldly joys of life. He doesn't even speak of *vows* in this clip, merely that he came out of that world that believed that to lead a spiritual life, one must renounce the world. He says that he renounced the world. But *then* he goes on to say that what he *learned* was that it *wasn't* necessary to renounce the world to lead a spiritual life. I had the idea that I must renounce the world in order to be really a spiritual man, a yogi. But what I found out was that spiritual life was not dependent on the renun- ciation of the material world. So if one were looking for it, one could see in this clip a *rejection* of the idea of renouncing the world, rather than a claim to still be living that life. All his references in this clip to renouncing the world are in the past tense. So I reiterate -- has anyone *ever* heard Maharishi claim to be celibate? Or has everyone merely *assumed* he was all this time? Unc P.S. In retrospect, don't you find it fascinating that what you read into this clip was, according to the Subject line, Maharishi speaking of his vow of celibacy? He never mentioned celibacy, he never mentioned vows, and he actually *rejected* the idea of having to renounce the world to be spiritual. My original point was that one hears what one wants to hear. I rest my case. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
I think that what happened was Maharishi was smarter and a better yogi then most people surrounding GD but he was barred from taking Sannyas by caste. He vowed to outdo all the Sannyasins at their own game. He would have been a brahmachari when he served GD, but wasn't technically having to remain one since he never was a Sannyasin. Therefore he is a chameleon, doing just what he had to to maintain appearances so as to sell the West, who don't reallly know the truth of these things. - Original Message - From: Patrick Gillam To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 8:42 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject) Maharishi's absence of celibacy vows may absolve him of accusations of hypocrisy, but it makes one wonder why he asked people in his organization to abstain from sex. The most unsavory explanation is that he did it to wield power over them. The best case scenario, I suppose, is that for those people at that time, celibacy was a good thing.Maybe Rick can find time to poll people who abstainedto get their perspectives on the experience.- Patrick GillamP.S. I've only been following these discussions with one eye, but it's fascinating to see how we read meanings into things. It's a theme this group has come back to again and again.--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -An old BBC interview with Maharishi, where he discusses his vow of celibacy and on being a monk.http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/audiointerviews/profilepages/maharishi1. shtml Interesting, and thanks for posting this link, but he doesn't actually mention celibacy in the segment. He speaks in general terms in answer to the interviewer's question, in terms of "restraining from the worldly joys of life." He doesn't even speak of *vows* in this clip, merely that he "came out of that world" that believed that to lead a spiritual life, one must renounce the world. He says that he renounced the world. But *then* he goes on to say that what he *learned* was that it *wasn't* necessary to renounce the world to lead a spiritual life. "I had the idea that I must renounce the world in order to be really a spiritual man, a yogi. But what I found out was that spiritual life was not dependent on the renun- ciation of the material world." So if one were looking for it, one could see in this clip a *rejection* of the idea of renouncing the world, rather than a claim to still be living that life. All his references in this clip to "renouncing the world" are in the past tense. So I reiterate -- has anyone *ever* heard Maharishi claim to be celibate? Or has everyone merely *assumed* he was all this time? Unc P.S. In retrospect, don't you find it fascinating that what you read into this clip was, according to the Subject line, "Maharishi speaking of his vow of celibacy?" He never mentioned celibacy, he never mentioned "vows," and he actually *rejected* the idea of having to renounce the world to be spiritual. My original point was that one hears what one wants to hear. I rest my case. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
My own theory? Assuming that MMY was off the program with some lady or ladies at some point, he later had pangs of guilt that he projected on everyone else... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi's absence of celibacy vows may absolve him of accusations of hypocrisy, but it makes one wonder why he asked people in his organization to abstain from sex. The most unsavory explanation is that he did it to wield power over them. The best case scenario, I suppose, is that for those people at that time, celibacy was a good thing. Maybe Rick can find time to poll people who abstained to get their perspectives on the experience. - Patrick Gillam P.S. I've only been following these discussions with one eye, but it's fascinating to see how we read meanings into things. It's a theme this group has come back to again and again. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
on 8/5/05 4:27 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My own theory? Assuming that MMY was off the program with some lady or ladies at some point, he later had pangs of guilt that he projected on everyone else... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi's absence of celibacy vows may absolve him of accusations of hypocrisy, but it makes one wonder why he asked people in his organization to abstain from sex. The most unsavory explanation is that he did it to wield power over them. The best case scenario, I suppose, is that for those people at that time, celibacy was a good thing. Maybe Rick can find time to poll people who abstained to get their perspectives on the experience. Anyone can start a poll, but I'm convinced that celibacy has been very good for me. I think I needed it to compensate for my youthful excesses. I don't have a problem if Maharishi was having sex and encouraging me not to. My problem is in understanding why he'd want to. I understand personal needs and all that, but my conception of him was that he was above them. Or that even if he weren't, that he would have had the yogic ability to sublimate his desires, if for no other reason than to avoid the potentially catastrophic effect on his movement should his sexual activities be publicly exposed. That often came close to happening, and his response was to banish and discredit those responsible. Was that fair to them? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/5/05 4:27 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My own theory? Assuming that MMY was off the program with some lady or ladies at some point, he later had pangs of guilt that he projected on everyone else... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi's absence of celibacy vows may absolve him of accusations of hypocrisy, but it makes one wonder why he asked people in his organization to abstain from sex. The most unsavory explanation is that he did it to wield power over them. The best case scenario, I suppose, is that for those people at that time, celibacy was a good thing. Maybe Rick can find time to poll people who abstained to get their perspectives on the experience. Anyone can start a poll, but I'm convinced that celibacy has been very good for me. I think I needed it to compensate for my youthful excesses. I don't have a problem if Maharishi was having sex and encouraging me not to. My problem is in understanding why he'd want to. I understand personal needs and all that, but my conception of him was that he was above them. Or that even if he weren't, that he would have had the yogic ability to sublimate his desires, if for no other reason than to avoid the potentially catastrophic effect on his movement should his sexual activities be publicly exposed. That often came close to happening, and his response was to banish and discredit those responsible. Was that fair to them? Are you saying MMY should have treated them fairly? Is this thought true? How do you feel when you think this thought? How would you feel without this thought? What about a possible turnaround -- Have you always treated MMY fairly? Have you always treated yourself fairly? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
Are you saying MMY should have treated them fairly?Is this thought true? How do you feel when you think this thought? How would you feel without this thought?What about a possible turnaround -- Have you always treated MMY fairly? Have you always treated yourself fairly?The five headed hydra of the mind can only lead to more confusion, or one merely says, shut up. All this discursive shit is great if you have loads of time. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Random subject heading (was Re: unrelated subject)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you saying MMY should have treated them fairly? Is this thought true? How do you feel when you think this thought? How would you feel without this thought? What about a possible turnaround -- Have you always treated MMY fairly? Have you always treated yourself fairly? The five headed hydra of the mind can only lead to more confusion, or one merely says, shut up. All this discursive shit is great if you have loads of time. I hear meditation helps free the mind from timecramp (some say it can take as little as 5 or 8 or 30 years!); I have found this discursive shit (together with bodymind breath/attention) to be most helpful in *very quickly* unravelling suffering... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
