[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This is sad, from: > http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=1444&start=30&sid=e52ad8b8d85061ae > 3921fc1ef5ab5675 > > After making many millions, at one time Maharishi told Doug that he was no > longer to perform two performances each night in Las Vegas. That working two > shows per night (as all other L.V. celebrities did) would be "too exhausting > for his nervous system and interfere with his evolution". So, Doug > renegotiated his contract for only one performance nightly. > > That was the beginning of Doug's career decline. > > However, Doug had plenty of money at that point. Doug and Debbie then spent > their time close with Maharishi, planning and developing VedaLand... (as > mentioned in a link above). > > Doug died a few years ago of liver cancer. > Debbie donated all of Doug's millions to the TM Movement. She then joined > the TM "Mother Divine Program". Mother Divine is a convent-like program, but > the women meditate about six hours per day. They become very soft spoken and > spacey. > > Today, I was told that Debbie's family had her admitted to a mental > institution a few years ago. deep sigh. > > She was once so full of life. > So... why did they have her committed? Was it because she was insane or because she was giving her money away? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
Wow! I had a front seat for this relationship. This news gives me no joy, but I have to say that hearing her speak did used to give me the creeps. She was off, and only in the rairified movement atmosphere did her condition stay off radar. Doug was not far behind I believe. But she did live a fantasy life for a while. She was MMY royalty. I hope she can recover a useful life. Weird that she gave away all the money. Not surprising that the MMY machine chewed her up and spit her out. Very moving story Rick. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This is sad, from: > http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=1444&start=30&sid=e52ad8b8d85061ae > 3921fc1ef5ab5675 > > After making many millions, at one time Maharishi told Doug that he was no > longer to perform two performances each night in Las Vegas. That working two > shows per night (as all other L.V. celebrities did) would be "too exhausting > for his nervous system and interfere with his evolution". So, Doug > renegotiated his contract for only one performance nightly. > > That was the beginning of Doug's career decline. > > However, Doug had plenty of money at that point. Doug and Debbie then spent > their time close with Maharishi, planning and developing VedaLand... (as > mentioned in a link above). > > Doug died a few years ago of liver cancer. > Debbie donated all of Doug's millions to the TM Movement. She then joined > the TM "Mother Divine Program". Mother Divine is a convent-like program, but > the women meditate about six hours per day. They become very soft spoken and > spacey. > > Today, I was told that Debbie's family had her admitted to a mental > institution a few years ago. deep sigh. > > She was once so full of life. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
Getting an adult committed isn't like that. You don't get to choose the reason when you admit them. The admitting doctor has to determine if the person is not able to function as a functional adult in society. The parent's perspective on her condition has nothing to do with the medical determination that would lead to her institutionalization. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: > > > > This is sad, from: > > http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=1444&start=30&sid=e52ad8b8d85061ae > > 3921fc1ef5ab5675 > > > > After making many millions, at one time Maharishi told Doug that he was no > > longer to perform two performances each night in Las Vegas. That working two > > shows per night (as all other L.V. celebrities did) would be "too exhausting > > for his nervous system and interfere with his evolution". So, Doug > > renegotiated his contract for only one performance nightly. > > > > That was the beginning of Doug's career decline. > > > > However, Doug had plenty of money at that point. Doug and Debbie then spent > > their time close with Maharishi, planning and developing VedaLand... (as > > mentioned in a link above). > > > > Doug died a few years ago of liver cancer. > > Debbie donated all of Doug's millions to the TM Movement. She then joined > > the TM "Mother Divine Program". Mother Divine is a convent-like program, but > > the women meditate about six hours per day. They become very soft spoken and > > spacey. > > > > Today, I was told that Debbie's family had her admitted to a mental > > institution a few years ago. deep sigh. > > > > She was once so full of life. > > > > So... why did they have her committed? Was it because she was insane or because she was > giving her money away? > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Admitting an adult to a mental institution can only be > done by someone sanctioned by the particular state > with that power (i.e., a medical doctor, a > psychologist, a policeman). That admitting person must > present clear evidence that the person is a clear risk > to their own wellbeing or the wellbeing of another. It > is not an easy thing to do at all. My completely uninformed guess is that she had become clinically depressed and suicidal (not an uncommon response to the death of a beloved spouse). I should think a close eye ought to be kept on anyone who gives away all their money--especially if it's a large amount--and goes into seclusion following a spouse's death. I'd even wonder if giving away all one's wealth might be a kind of metaphor for suicide, a pre-suicidal gesture. Henning was an extremely charismatic guy, which I suspect made it all the harder on Debbie to lose him. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Admitting an adult to a mental institution can > > only be > > > done by someone sanctioned by the particular state > > > with that power (i.e., a medical doctor, a > > > psychologist, a policeman). That admitting person > > must > > > present clear evidence that the person is a clear > > risk > > > to their own wellbeing or the wellbeing of > > another. It > > > is not an easy thing to do at all. > > > > My completely uninformed guess is that she had > > become clinically depressed and suicidal (not > > an uncommon response to the death of a beloved > > spouse). > > > > I should think a close eye ought to be kept on > > anyone who gives away all their money--especially > > if it's a large amount--and goes into seclusion > > following a spouse's death. I'd even wonder if > > giving away all one's wealth might be a kind of > > metaphor for suicide, a pre-suicidal gesture. > > > > Henning was an extremely charismatic guy, which > > I suspect made it all the harder on Debbie to > > lose him. > > It is interesting to notice how the majority of people > do fine with TM and the TM-siddhis program. However > there has always been a certain percentage of people > in the TMO who become psychologically unstable either > after starting TM or the TM-siddhis program. I > personally know three who became psychotic after the > siddhis program and one who became psychotic after > long rounding on his TTC in Fuggi. And what were those people like before they started TM? TM is a self-development technique. Naturally, it is going to attract a demographic that is, disproportionately, made up of those on the fringe; that is, unstables yearning to improve their lives. So it is no wonder that you're going to get the psychotics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Admitting an adult to a mental institution can only be > done by someone sanctioned by the particular state > with that power (i.e., a medical doctor, a > psychologist, a policeman). That admitting person must > present clear evidence that the person is a clear risk > to their own wellbeing or the wellbeing of another. It > is not an easy thing to do at all. Heh. Ms Henning do you believe in levitation? Yes. Can you levitate? Yes. Would you demonstrate? Sure [hop hop hop] Lock her up, boys... If you think a family can't get a judge to go along in the right circumstances, you're full of it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Getting an adult committed isn't like that. You don't get to choose > the reason when you admit them. The admitting doctor has to determine > if the person is not able to function as a functional adult in > society. The parent's perspective on her condition has nothing to do > with the medical determination that would lead to her > institutionalization. > Heh. So you don't think that Jesus would be walking the streets today? I recall reading the grand ole dame of deprogramming, Margeret Singer, complaining about several of her patients--long-term TMers--whose depersonalization was so severe that even electroshock therapy couldn't affect it... > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: > > > > > > This is sad, from: > > > > http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=1444&start=30&sid=e52ad8b8d85061ae > > > 3921fc1ef5ab5675 > > > > > > After making many millions, at one time Maharishi told Doug that > he was no > > > longer to perform two performances each night in Las Vegas. That > working two > > > shows per night (as all other L.V. celebrities did) would be "too > exhausting > > > for his nervous system and interfere with his evolution". So, Doug > > > renegotiated his contract for only one performance nightly. > > > > > > That was the beginning of Doug's career decline. > > > > > > However, Doug had plenty of money at that point. Doug and Debbie > then spent > > > their time close with Maharishi, planning and developing > VedaLand... (as > > > mentioned in a link above). > > > > > > Doug died a few years ago of liver cancer. > > > Debbie donated all of Doug's millions to the TM Movement. She then > joined > > > the TM "Mother Divine Program". Mother Divine is a convent-like > program, but > > > the women meditate about six hours per day. They become very soft > spoken and > > > spacey. > > > > > > Today, I was told that Debbie's family had her admitted to a mental > > > institution a few years ago. deep sigh. > > > > > > She was once so full of life. > > > > > > > So... why did they have her committed? Was it because she was insane > or because she was > > giving her money away? > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > It is interesting to notice how the majority of > > people > > > do fine with TM and the TM-siddhis program. > > However > > > there has always been a certain percentage of > > people > > > in the TMO who become psychologically unstable > > either > > > after starting TM or the TM-siddhis program. I > > > personally know three who became psychotic after > > the > > > siddhis program and one who became psychotic after > > > long rounding on his TTC in Fuggi. > > > > > > > > > > And what were those people like before they started > > TM? > > > > TM is a self-development technique. Naturally, it > > is going to > > attract a demographic that is, disproportionately, > > made up of those > > on the fringe; that is, unstables yearning to > > improve their lives. > > > > So it is no wonder that you're going to get the > > psychotics. > > Of course. This has always been a problem whenever a > large group of unscreened people take some type of a > self-development program. The majority are fine, but > there are always some with a predisposition to > psychosis. > > And with TM, even most of them do jsut fine as long as there is SOME level of supervision. E.G, getting someone to take a few minutes extra silence at the end of TM if they feel anxioius or upset, rather than jumping up and running around in circles screaming "I'm having an anxiety attack!!!" [speaking from personal experience BTW, and not concerning myself] To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
"> Heh. So you don't think that Jesus would be walking the streets today? > I think he would be running a small group and the miracles marketing hype would, sadly enough, work just as well today. His description in the Gospels, if accurate historically, reminds me of other leaders I have seen working their mojo today. > I recall reading the grand ole dame of deprogramming, Margeret Singer, complaining > about several of her patients--long-term TMers--whose depersonalization was so severe > that even electroshock therapy couldn't affect it... I never discussed the shock thing with Margret, but did discuss her opinion that TM people spent more time in an altered state than people in other groups. This lead to more depersonalization problems and dissociative disorders for the TM people whe worked with then she found in groups that did not spend so much time in trance states. If that is true then the batch that will emerge from the domes in a year of that massive immersion program should be like a scene from an old Thriller video. Or maybe they will all float out in formation proving MMY's dramatic claims to be more than the ravings of a pitch man guru. Which do you think is more likely? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > > > Getting an adult committed isn't like that. You don't get to choose > > the reason when you admit them. The admitting doctor has to determine > > if the person is not able to function as a functional adult in > > society. The parent's perspective on her condition has nothing to do > > with the medical determination that would lead to her > > institutionalization. > > > > Heh. So you don't think that Jesus would be walking the streets today? > > I recall reading the grand ole dame of deprogramming, Margeret Singer, complaining > about several of her patients--long-term TMers--whose depersonalization was so severe > that even electroshock therapy couldn't affect it... > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: > > > > > > > > This is sad, from: > > > > > > http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=1444&start=30&sid=e52ad8b8d85061ae > > > > 3921fc1ef5ab5675 > > > > > > > > After making many millions, at one time Maharishi told Doug that > > he was no > > > > longer to perform two performances each night in Las Vegas. That > > working two > > > > shows per night (as all other L.V. celebrities did) would be "too > > exhausting > > > > for his nervous system and interfere with his evolution". So, Doug > > > > renegotiated his contract for only one performance nightly. > > > > > > > > That was the beginning of Doug's career decline. > > > > > > > > However, Doug had plenty of money at that point. Doug and Debbie > > then spent > > > > their time close with Maharishi, planning and developing > > VedaLand... (as > > > > mentioned in a link above). > > > > > > > > Doug died a few years ago of liver cancer. > > > > Debbie donated all of Doug's millions to the TM Movement. She then > > joined > > > > the TM "Mother Divine Program". Mother Divine is a convent-like > > program, but > > > > the women meditate about six hours per day. They become very soft > > spoken and > > > > spacey. > > > > > > > > Today, I was told that Debbie's family had her admitted to a mental > > > > institution a few years ago. deep sigh. > > > > > > > > She was once so full of life. > > > > > > > > > > So... why did they have her committed? Was it because she was insane > > or because she was > > > giving her money away? > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I recall reading the grand ole dame of > > deprogramming, Margeret Singer, complaining > > about several of her patients--long-term > > TMers--whose depersonalization was so severe > > that even electroshock therapy couldn't affect it... > > Ahhh, I doubt that claim about ECT. ECT will raise the > dead. I've read the same thing. That's what she's quoted as saying. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Admitting an adult to a mental institution can only be > done by someone sanctioned by the particular state > with that power (i.e., a medical doctor, a > psychologist, a policeman). That admitting person must > present clear evidence that the person is a clear risk > to their own wellbeing or the wellbeing of another. It > is not an easy thing to do at all. > *** The authorities are extremely reluctant to admit people to mental institutions because of the high cost of doing so. When I worked as a civilian for a So. Calif. police force 25 years ago, the cops would get complaints about crazy street people acting out in the neighborhood, but physicians would not usually not admit anybody unless they were clearly nuts, so the crazy guy would go back to the neighborhood and the cops would go nuts dealing with multiple calls about this crazy guy doing his crazy thing in the neighborhood. So the cops learned to tell the crazy guy when they picked him that they were going to take him to the wizard, who would do all sorts of wonderful things for him, getting the guy all excited, so that when they arrived at the hospital and met the doctor, the crazy guy would blurt out "Are you the wizard?", and the doctor would say, Oh yeah, and admit the guy to the psych ward, which would get him off the streets for a while. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [...] Levi's death at MIU was > contributed by the incompetance of a psychologist (I > hope the Iowa Board of Psychology or whomever is > responsible for licensure in Iowa brought appropriate > sanctions against this fool) failing to understand and > take appropriate measures with a floridly psychotic > student. This is not hindsight, but simple clinical > experience recognizing when a fellow psychologist does > not understand what they are doing and totally out of > their depth. What interferes here is not only lack of > clinical experience with psychotics but also the > unfortunate cult agenda that believes, a priori, that > no ill can come about through any TM program-period. > So people in need of psychological help (another TMO > forbidden topic) are not recognized to be in need of > help and by the time it becomes obvious, it's almost > too late. Which psychologist are you talking about? The guy on the board of directors of MUM told them he was a danger to himself and others and needed to be removed from campus immediately and the Powers That Be (Bevan more than likely) didn't listen. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > > > > > Getting an adult committed isn't like that. You > > don't get to choose > > > the reason when you admit them. The admitting > > doctor has to determine > > > if the person is not able to function as a > > functional adult in > > > society. The parent's perspective on her condition > > has nothing to do > > > with the medical determination that would lead to > > her > > > institutionalization. > > > > > > > Heh. So you don't think that Jesus would be walking > > the streets today? > > > > I recall reading the grand ole dame of > > deprogramming, Margeret Singer, complaining > > about several of her patients--long-term > > TMers--whose depersonalization was so severe > > that even electroshock therapy couldn't affect it... > > Ahhh, I doubt that claim about ECT. ECT will raise the > dead. Does give a new test for CC: ECT can't affect it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "> Heh. So you don't think that Jesus would be walking the streets today? > > > > I think he would be running a small group and the miracles marketing > hype would, sadly enough, work just as well today. His description in > the Gospels, if accurate historically, reminds me of other leaders I > have seen working their mojo today. > > > I recall reading the grand ole dame of deprogramming, Margeret > Singer, complaining > > about several of her patients--long-term TMers--whose > depersonalization was so severe > > that even electroshock therapy couldn't affect it... > > I never discussed the shock thing with Margret, but did discuss her > opinion that TM people spent more time in an altered state than people > in other groups. This lead to more depersonalization problems and > dissociative disorders for the TM people whe worked with then she > found in groups that did not spend so much time in trance states. If > that is true then the batch that will emerge from the domes in a year > of that massive immersion program should be like a scene from an old > Thriller video. Or maybe they will all float out in formation proving > MMY's dramatic claims to be more than the ravings of a pitch man guru. > Which do you think is more likely? > Neiheryou nor she apparently ever considered the fact (now proveable beyond doubt by Fred's latest reesearch) that TM-induced "pure consciousness" is not merely an altered state of consciousness. But oh well. Keep your anti-stuff going if it makes you happy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > I never discussed the shock thing with Margret, Wow, Curtis was on a first-name basis with Dr. Singer. I'm sure impressed. but did > > discuss her opinion that TM people spent more time in an > > altered state than people in other groups. This lead to > > more depersonalization problems and dissociative disorders > > for the TM people whe worked with then she > > found in groups that did not spend so much time in trance > > states. > > Neiher you nor she apparently ever considered the fact > (now proveable beyond doubt by Fred's latest reesearch) > that TM-induced "pure consciousness" is not merely an > altered state of consciousness. But oh well. Keep your > anti-stuff going if it makes you happy. And doncha just love the "trance state" thought-stopper? Frankly, I think Singer was a lot better at thought reform than the TMO could ever hope to be. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
" Neiheryou nor she apparently ever considered the fact (now proveable beyond doubt by > Fred's latest reesearch) that TM-induced "pure consciousness" is not merely an altered > state of consciousness. But oh well. Keep your anti-stuff going if it makes you happy." So what term would you prefer to represent our own point of view on these states? I didn't know that there was any universal scientific consensus on the terms yet. I think in this area of very new science there is a lot of room for differences of opinions on what these states mean or what we should call them. Margret was viewing it from her clinical experiences with ex TMers. That was her opinion. I am comfortable referring to them as trance states because I think they are hypnotically induced. That is my conclusion from my own experience with TM and hypnosis training in the style of Milton Erickson whose expertise I respected. My position is no more characterized as "anti stuff" then your point of view is. We are both doing the best we can to interpret our experiences honestly, right? It is my best understanding of the experience. I respect that this is not how you view it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > > > "> Heh. So you don't think that Jesus would be walking the streets today? > > > > > > > I think he would be running a small group and the miracles marketing > > hype would, sadly enough, work just as well today. His description in > > the Gospels, if accurate historically, reminds me of other leaders I > > have seen working their mojo today. > > > > > I recall reading the grand ole dame of deprogramming, Margeret > > Singer, complaining > > > about several of her patients--long-term TMers--whose > > depersonalization was so severe > > > that even electroshock therapy couldn't affect it... > > > > I never discussed the shock thing with Margret, but did discuss her > > opinion that TM people spent more time in an altered state than people > > in other groups. This lead to more depersonalization problems and > > dissociative disorders for the TM people whe worked with then she > > found in groups that did not spend so much time in trance states. If > > that is true then the batch that will emerge from the domes in a year > > of that massive immersion program should be like a scene from an old > > Thriller video. Or maybe they will all float out in formation proving > > MMY's dramatic claims to be more than the ravings of a pitch man guru. > > Which do you think is more likely? > > > > Neiheryou nor she apparently ever considered the fact (now proveable beyond doubt by > Fred's latest reesearch) that TM-induced "pure consciousness" is not merely an altered > state of consciousness. But oh well. Keep your anti-stuff going if it makes you happy. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > " Neiheryou nor she apparently ever considered the fact (now proveable > beyond doubt by > > Fred's latest reesearch) that TM-induced "pure consciousness" is not > merely an altered > > state of consciousness. But oh well. Keep your anti-stuff going if > it makes you happy." > > So what term would you prefer to represent our own point of view on > these states? I didn't know that there was any universal scientific > consensus on the terms yet. I think in this area of very new science > there is a lot of room for differences of opinions on what these > states mean or what we should call them. Margret was viewing it from > her clinical experiences with ex TMers. That was her opinion. > > I am comfortable referring to them as trance states because I think > they are hypnotically induced. That is my conclusion from my own > experience with TM and hypnosis training in the style of Milton > Erickson whose expertise I respected. My position is no more > characterized as "anti stuff" then your point of view is. We are both > doing the best we can to interpret our experiences honestly, right? > It is my best understanding of the experience. I respect that this > is not how you view it. > We... Short answer: there's no consistent physiological changes found in hypnotic subjects while there is with TMers. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
> We... Short answer: there's no consistent physiological changes found in hypnotic > subjects while there is with TMers. I wonder if the hypnotic subjects you are talking about practiced it as consistently as the TM group. What type of hypnotic technique was used? As you may know, there are as many hypnotic techniques as there are types of mediation. Calling one subject a hypnotic subject is like using a generic meditator in place of a TM meditator. Perhaps the TM form of self-hypnosis does show consistent physiological changes. That doesn't prove that it is a different state, it may be a subset of the broader trance phenomenon. MMY calls the TM induced states "higher states". I think this is marketing hype with no evidence of "higher" anything in its practicers with the exception of some who seem to have induced inflated self-regard. I am glad there are people researching this stuff. There is a lot of room for different points of view. I suspect that I chose my own view after a more rigorous test of the uniqueness of TM states in the movement than you have with hypnosis. If you were trained in Ericksonian hypnosis you might change your mind. You have the choice to study it, or not. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > > > " Neiheryou nor she apparently ever considered the fact (now proveable > > beyond doubt by > > > Fred's latest reesearch) that TM-induced "pure consciousness" is not > > merely an altered > > > state of consciousness. But oh well. Keep your anti-stuff going if > > it makes you happy." > > > > So what term would you prefer to represent our own point of view on > > these states? I didn't know that there was any universal scientific > > consensus on the terms yet. I think in this area of very new science > > there is a lot of room for differences of opinions on what these > > states mean or what we should call them. Margret was viewing it from > > her clinical experiences with ex TMers. That was her opinion. > > > > I am comfortable referring to them as trance states because I think > > they are hypnotically induced. That is my conclusion from my own > > experience with TM and hypnosis training in the style of Milton > > Erickson whose expertise I respected. My position is no more > > characterized as "anti stuff" then your point of view is. We are both > > doing the best we can to interpret our experiences honestly, right? > > It is my best understanding of the experience. I respect that this > > is not how you view it. > > > > We... Short answer: there's no consistent physiological changes found in hypnotic > subjects while there is with TMers. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > We... Short answer: there's no consistent physiological changes > found in hypnotic > > subjects while there is with TMers. > > I wonder if the hypnotic subjects you are talking about practiced it > as consistently as the TM group. What type of hypnotic technique was > used? As you may know, there are as many hypnotic techniques as there > are types of mediation. Calling one subject a hypnotic subject is > like using a generic meditator in place of a TM meditator. Perhaps > the TM form of self-hypnosis does show consistent physiological > changes. That doesn't prove that it is a different state, it may be a > subset of the broader trance phenomenon. > > MMY calls the TM induced states "higher states". I think this is > marketing hype with no evidence of "higher" anything in its practicers > with the exception of some who seem to have induced inflated > self-regard. > > I am glad there are people researching this stuff. There is a lot of > room for different points of view. I suspect that I chose my own view > after a more rigorous test of the uniqueness of TM states in the > movement than you have with hypnosis. If you were trained in > Ericksonian hypnosis you might change your mind. You have the choice > to study it, or not. > > Short answer: where's the research published by scientists that shows consistent physiological correlates to hypnosis? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
Spraig, Your dismissive answer does not hide your ignorance about hypnosis. TM researchers fixation on proving that the TM state is unique is part of their marketing hype. Hypnosis researchers do not have the same agenda, so they may not just focus on the variables TM researchers use to prove their case that TM is extra special, super duper, and the very bestest trance in the whole wide world, worth every dollar charged. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > > > > We... Short answer: there's no consistent physiological changes > > found in hypnotic > > > subjects while there is with TMers. > > > > I wonder if the hypnotic subjects you are talking about practiced it > > as consistently as the TM group. What type of hypnotic technique was > > used? As you may know, there are as many hypnotic techniques as there > > are types of mediation. Calling one subject a hypnotic subject is > > like using a generic meditator in place of a TM meditator. Perhaps > > the TM form of self-hypnosis does show consistent physiological > > changes. That doesn't prove that it is a different state, it may be a > > subset of the broader trance phenomenon. > > > > MMY calls the TM induced states "higher states". I think this is > > marketing hype with no evidence of "higher" anything in its practicers > > with the exception of some who seem to have induced inflated > > self-regard. > > > > I am glad there are people researching this stuff. There is a lot of > > room for different points of view. I suspect that I chose my own view > > after a more rigorous test of the uniqueness of TM states in the > > movement than you have with hypnosis. If you were trained in > > Ericksonian hypnosis you might change your mind. You have the choice > > to study it, or not. > > > > > > Short answer: where's the research published by scientists that shows consistent > physiological correlates to hypnosis? > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Spraig, > > Your dismissive answer does not hide your ignorance about hypnosis. > TM researchers fixation on proving that the TM state is unique is part > of their marketing hype. Hypnosis researchers do not have the same > agenda, so they may not just focus on the variables TM researchers use > to prove their case that TM is extra special, super duper, and the > very bestest trance in the whole wide world, worth every dollar charged. > > Cought. PHysiological researchers looking for consistent neurological correlates of hynosis hav exactly the same agenda: to find any such consistent neurological correlates. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > > > > We... Short answer: there's no consistent physiological changes > > > found in hypnotic > > > > subjects while there is with TMers. > > > > > > I wonder if the hypnotic subjects you are talking about practiced it > > > as consistently as the TM group. What type of hypnotic technique was > > > used? As you may know, there are as many hypnotic techniques as there > > > are types of mediation. Calling one subject a hypnotic subject is > > > like using a generic meditator in place of a TM meditator. Perhaps > > > the TM form of self-hypnosis does show consistent physiological > > > changes. That doesn't prove that it is a different state, it may be a > > > subset of the broader trance phenomenon. > > > > > > MMY calls the TM induced states "higher states". I think this is > > > marketing hype with no evidence of "higher" anything in its practicers > > > with the exception of some who seem to have induced inflated > > > self-regard. > > > > > > I am glad there are people researching this stuff. There is a lot of > > > room for different points of view. I suspect that I chose my own view > > > after a more rigorous test of the uniqueness of TM states in the > > > movement than you have with hypnosis. If you were trained in > > > Ericksonian hypnosis you might change your mind. You have the choice > > > to study it, or not. > > > > > > > > > > Short answer: where's the research published by scientists that > shows consistent > > physiological correlates to hypnosis? > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
Lsoma wrote: > ...where are you getting this kind of information from? > >From the informants on this forum?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has been > > admitted to a > > mental institu > > > Now there's a surprise. > > Well at least he didn't poison her. You set an example of compassion for all of us, Vaj.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Nov 26, 2006, at 5:16 PM, Jason Spock wrote: > > > But, TM is a Scientific technique practiced for thousands of years > > by Vedic Seers. > > LOL. Have you been readin' them thar Vedic comic books again Jase? > The only inaccuracy in Jason's statement is that the timescale is too short.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has been > > admitted to a > > mental institu > > > Now there's a surprise. > > Well at least he didn't poison her. > Well perhaps poisoning you was enough... :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has been > > admitted to a > > mental institu > > > Now there's a surprise. > > Well at least he didn't poison her. > There's that compassionate tone of voice again, Vaj.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:12 PM, Lsoma@ wrote: > > > > > Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has > been > > > admitted to a > > > mental institu > > > > > > Now there's a surprise. > > > > Well at least he didn't poison her. > > You set an example of compassion for all of us, Vaj. > Noticed that, did you? His techniques obviously work wonders for him. Or... we should have seen the "before" picture?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:12 PM, Lsoma@ wrote: > > > > > > > Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has > > been > > > > admitted to a > > > > mental institu > > > > > > > > > Now there's a surprise. > > > > > > Well at least he didn't poison her. > > > > You set an example of compassion for all of us, Vaj. > > Noticed that, did you? His techniques obviously > work wonders for him. Or... we should have seen > the "before" picture? Vaj is really on a roll tonight, isn't he? Maybe he's just unstressing.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Jason, you're actually wrong here. If a person is > decompensating and their ego structures are breaking > down and they are identified with those structures, > they are becoming psychotic. They need much less or no > meditation and plenty of activity to engage the mind, > senses and language. People have different nervous > systems. Some can have no problem with long hours of > meditastion, such as yourself, others flip out. > *** I think the advice from TM teachers was that one with a physical ailment could meditate as long as they were comfortable with long practice, and Jason had malaria, not a psychological complaint. All that energy from long practice went into healing the physical complaint, and was not fodder for decompensation. > --- Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > There is Nothing wrong with practicing TM for > > long periods. > > > > I used to practice TM for 8 or 9 hours a > > day.!! I was sufering from Chronic Malaria for two > > years, a sub-lethal attack. I took a long time for > > the Doctors to diagnoise it. During that period I > > practice TM for very extended periods. I don't > > practice that long off late. > > > > But, TM is a Scientific technique practiced for > > thousands of years by Vedic Seers. > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 16:17:21 EST > > Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Debbie Henning > > > > > > Wow. Could this be true about Debbie? To the > > person who posted this about someone's personal life > > where are you getting this kind of information from? > > Debbie deserves our prayers if this information is > > true. MMY has gotten in trouble in the past with the > > TMX organization back in 1985 with TM and TM Sidhi > > practitioners who meditated too much and came down > > with side effects that are not positive. Why MMY > > keeps pushing the nervous systems of some people is > > beyond me. This could effect MMY spiritual growth > > when he passes over. His status in the fifth > > dimension could be lowered. If the information is > > true my heart goes out to her and her family. Just a > > word of advise to everyone out their that can be > > passed on. If you're having problems in your > > programs slow down. You might want to meditate only > > once a day. If your doing the Sidhi's and your > > screaming or throwing things against the wall stop > > your program and just meditate and take it from > > their. If you move to fast on the > > spiritual path you can have an emotional or > > physiological fallout. Don't listen to TM teachers > > who say your just unstressing and continue. They > > have no brains in their heads when they talk like > > this. > > It iscommon sense. And believe it or not MMY lacks > > in common sense at times even though everyone thinks > > he's enlightened. Love and Light. > > Lou Valentino > > > > > > > > > > - > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail > beta. > > > > > __ __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > http://new.mail.yahoo.com >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The last thing a person needs is transcending when > they are decompensating and the ego is overwhelmed > with primary process impulses. But unfortunately the > TMO will not listen to any mental health > professionals, even meditating ones, in regard to > people who are struggling with their program and their > life. For the vast majority of people, including people with mental ilness, TM is useful. Even people that have problems with TM usually find that lying down for a few minutes after practice and/or reducing practice time, is all that is requierd to get rid of most side-effects.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
(snip) > > Doug died a few years ago of liver cancer. > > Debbie donated all of Doug's millions to the TM Movement. She then > joined > > the TM "Mother Divine Program". Mother Divine is a convent-like > program, but > > the women meditate about six hours per day. They become very soft > spoken and > > spacey. > > > > Today, I was told that Debbie's family had her admitted to a mental > > institution a few years ago. deep sigh. > > > > She was once so full of life. > > Could it be, that she just never got over Doug's death; that sometimes happens you know; Especially when people are particularly sensitive, and prone to fantasy to some extent; And to go from being where she was- she obviously did not know how to re-create her life, after his death? Whether or not that had to do with TM or donation of money, or whatever- seems irrelevant, to me anyway... Sometimes sensitive people just have mental breakdowns. Does anyone know if Michael Richards, has cut back on his 'Sidhi Program'? R.G. R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > > wrote: > > > > > > The last thing a person needs is transcending when > > > they are decompensating and the ego is overwhelmed > > > with primary process impulses. But unfortunately > > the > > > TMO will not listen to any mental health > > > professionals, even meditating ones, in regard to > > > people who are struggling with their program and > > their > > > life. > > > > For the vast majority of people, including people > > with mental ilness, TM is useful. Even > > people that have problems with TM usually find that > > lying down for a few minutes after > > practice and/or reducing practice time, is all that > > is requierd to get rid of most side-effects. > > As I just posted, TM is great for anxiety and > depressive disorders, but some disorders, especially > psychosis, TM or any internal, unstructured activity > is the absolutely worst thing that could be done. > Transcending is not good for very weak minds. I doubt that you have done any research on this...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Nov 27, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Peter wrote: > > > As I just posted, TM is great for anxiety and > > depressive disorders, > > > Dr. Pete, > I thought it was supposed to be an effortless technique for the > reduction of stress in general--that's what I remember. I don't recall > hearing anything about anxiety or depression. Did I miss something? > > Sal > A few people with anxiety disorders become more anxious as they start to relax. It fits the unstressing/normalization model of TM quite well, but these are extreme cases and people with ths problem may need to reduce their TM or even abstain in extreme cases. The psychosis thing sounds like it applies more to kundalini techniques than TM, but you never know.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
Admitting an adult to a mental institution can only be done by someone sanctioned by the particular state with that power (i.e., a medical doctor, a psychologist, a policeman). That admitting person must present clear evidence that the person is a clear risk to their own wellbeing or the wellbeing of another. It is not an easy thing to do at all. --- curtisdeltablues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Getting an adult committed isn't like that. You > don't get to choose > the reason when you admit them. The admitting > doctor has to determine > if the person is not able to function as a > functional adult in > society. The parent's perspective on her condition > has nothing to do > with the medical determination that would lead to > her > institutionalization. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > wrote: > > > > > > This is sad, from: > > > > http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=1444&start=30&sid=e52ad8b8d85061ae > > > 3921fc1ef5ab5675 > > > > > > After making many millions, at one time > Maharishi told Doug that > he was no > > > longer to perform two performances each night in > Las Vegas. That > working two > > > shows per night (as all other L.V. celebrities > did) would be "too > exhausting > > > for his nervous system and interfere with his > evolution". So, Doug > > > renegotiated his contract for only one > performance nightly. > > > > > > That was the beginning of Doug's career decline. > > > > > > However, Doug had plenty of money at that point. > Doug and Debbie > then spent > > > their time close with Maharishi, planning and > developing > VedaLand... (as > > > mentioned in a link above). > > > > > > Doug died a few years ago of liver cancer. > > > Debbie donated all of Doug's millions to the TM > Movement. She then > joined > > > the TM "Mother Divine Program". Mother Divine is > a convent-like > program, but > > > the women meditate about six hours per day. They > become very soft > spoken and > > > spacey. > > > > > > Today, I was told that Debbie's family had her > admitted to a mental > > > institution a few years ago. deep sigh. > > > > > > She was once so full of life. > > > > > > > So... why did they have her committed? Was it > because she was insane > or because she was > > giving her money away? > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- authfriend <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > Admitting an adult to a mental institution can > only be > > done by someone sanctioned by the particular state > > with that power (i.e., a medical doctor, a > > psychologist, a policeman). That admitting person > must > > present clear evidence that the person is a clear > risk > > to their own wellbeing or the wellbeing of > another. It > > is not an easy thing to do at all. > > My completely uninformed guess is that she had > become clinically depressed and suicidal (not > an uncommon response to the death of a beloved > spouse). > > I should think a close eye ought to be kept on > anyone who gives away all their money--especially > if it's a large amount--and goes into seclusion > following a spouse's death. I'd even wonder if > giving away all one's wealth might be a kind of > metaphor for suicide, a pre-suicidal gesture. > > Henning was an extremely charismatic guy, which > I suspect made it all the harder on Debbie to > lose him. It is interesting to notice how the majority of people do fine with TM and the TM-siddhis program. However there has always been a certain percentage of people in the TMO who become psychologically unstable either after starting TM or the TM-siddhis program. I personally know three who became psychotic after the siddhis program and one who became psychotic after long rounding on his TTC in Fuggi. > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It is interesting to notice how the majority of > people > > do fine with TM and the TM-siddhis program. > However > > there has always been a certain percentage of > people > > in the TMO who become psychologically unstable > either > > after starting TM or the TM-siddhis program. I > > personally know three who became psychotic after > the > > siddhis program and one who became psychotic after > > long rounding on his TTC in Fuggi. > > > > > And what were those people like before they started > TM? > > TM is a self-development technique. Naturally, it > is going to > attract a demographic that is, disproportionately, > made up of those > on the fringe; that is, unstables yearning to > improve their lives. > > So it is no wonder that you're going to get the > psychotics. Of course. This has always been a problem whenever a large group of unscreened people take some type of a self-development program. The majority are fine, but there are always some with a predisposition to psychosis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Or go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > It is interesting to notice how the majority > of > > > people > > > > do fine with TM and the TM-siddhis program. > > > However > > > > there has always been a certain percentage of > > > people > > > > in the TMO who become psychologically unstable > > > either > > > > after starting TM or the TM-siddhis program. I > > > > personally know three who became psychotic > after > > > the > > > > siddhis program and one who became psychotic > after > > > > long rounding on his TTC in Fuggi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what were those people like before they > started > > > TM? > > > > > > TM is a self-development technique. Naturally, > it > > > is going to > > > attract a demographic that is, > disproportionately, > > > made up of those > > > on the fringe; that is, unstables yearning to > > > improve their lives. > > > > > > So it is no wonder that you're going to get the > > > psychotics. > > > > Of course. This has always been a problem whenever > a > > large group of unscreened people take some type of > a > > self-development program. The majority are fine, > but > > there are always some with a predisposition to > > psychosis. > > > > > > And with TM, even most of them do jsut fine as long > as there is SOME level of supervision. > E.G, getting someone to take a few minutes extra > silence at the end of TM if they feel > anxioius or upset, rather than jumping up and > running around in circles screaming "I'm > having an anxiety attack!!!" > > [speaking from personal experience BTW, and not > concerning myself] I think you hit the nail on the head here. There is no supervision of people during long rounding or courses for psychological problems. First of all, nobody is trained to recognized decompensation of an ego and a breakdown of defense mechanisms. And if this is recognized the person is sent home from the course or institutionalized and the TMO washes there hands of them. Not good stuff at all. Decompensating people need professional treatment by trained people with clinical experience. Levi's death at MIU was contributed by the incompetance of a psychologist (I hope the Iowa Board of Psychology or whomever is responsible for licensure in Iowa brought appropriate sanctions against this fool) failing to understand and take appropriate measures with a floridly psychotic student. This is not hindsight, but simple clinical experience recognizing when a fellow psychologist does not understand what they are doing and totally out of their depth. What interferes here is not only lack of clinical experience with psychotics but also the unfortunate cult agenda that believes, a priori, that no ill can come about through any TM program-period. So people in need of psychological help (another TMO forbidden topic) are not recognized to be in need of help and by the time it becomes obvious, it's almost too late. > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Getting an adult committed isn't like that. You > don't get to choose > > the reason when you admit them. The admitting > doctor has to determine > > if the person is not able to function as a > functional adult in > > society. The parent's perspective on her condition > has nothing to do > > with the medical determination that would lead to > her > > institutionalization. > > > > Heh. So you don't think that Jesus would be walking > the streets today? > > I recall reading the grand ole dame of > deprogramming, Margeret Singer, complaining > about several of her patients--long-term > TMers--whose depersonalization was so severe > that even electroshock therapy couldn't affect it... Ahhh, I doubt that claim about ECT. ECT will raise the dead. > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick > Archer wrote: > > > > > > > > This is sad, from: > > > > > > > http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=1444&start=30&sid=e52ad8b8d85061ae > > > > 3921fc1ef5ab5675 > > > > > > > > After making many millions, at one time > Maharishi told Doug that > > he was no > > > > longer to perform two performances each night > in Las Vegas. That > > working two > > > > shows per night (as all other L.V. celebrities > did) would be "too > > exhausting > > > > for his nervous system and interfere with his > evolution". So, Doug > > > > renegotiated his contract for only one > performance nightly. > > > > > > > > That was the beginning of Doug's career > decline. > > > > > > > > However, Doug had plenty of money at that > point. Doug and Debbie > > then spent > > > > their time close with Maharishi, planning and > developing > > VedaLand... (as > > > > mentioned in a link above). > > > > > > > > Doug died a few years ago of liver cancer. > > > > Debbie donated all of Doug's millions to the > TM Movement. She then > > joined > > > > the TM "Mother Divine Program". Mother Divine > is a convent-like > > program, but > > > > the women meditate about six hours per day. > They become very soft > > spoken and > > > > spacey. > > > > > > > > Today, I was told that Debbie's family had her > admitted to a mental > > > > institution a few years ago. deep sigh. > > > > > > > > She was once so full of life. > > > > > > > > > > So... why did they have her committed? Was it > because she was insane > > or because she was > > > giving her money away? > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- curtisdeltablues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "> Heh. So you don't think that Jesus would be > walking the streets today? > > > > I think he would be running a small group and the > miracles marketing > hype would, sadly enough, work just as well today. > His description in > the Gospels, if accurate historically, reminds me > of other leaders I > have seen working their mojo today. > > > I recall reading the grand ole dame of > deprogramming, Margeret > Singer, complaining > > about several of her patients--long-term > TMers--whose > depersonalization was so severe > > that even electroshock therapy couldn't affect > it... > > I never discussed the shock thing with Margret, but > did discuss her > opinion that TM people spent more time in an altered > state than people > in other groups. This lead to more depersonalization > problems and > dissociative disorders for the TM people whe worked > with then she > found in groups that did not spend so much time in > trance states. If > that is true then the batch that will emerge from > the domes in a year > of that massive immersion program should be like a > scene from an old > Thriller video. Or maybe they will all float out in > formation proving > MMY's dramatic claims to be more than the ravings of > a pitch man guru. > Which do you think is more likely? Or perhaps they'll walk out and say, "Oh my!" in full recognition of That which has always been and laugh really hard at all the years they spent looking for something that was always right there. Then they'll ride their bicycle home, eat a sandwich, say Jai Guru Dev! and catch the next plane out of Fairfield. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > > > Getting an adult committed isn't like that. You > don't get to choose > > > the reason when you admit them. The admitting > doctor has to determine > > > if the person is not able to function as a > functional adult in > > > society. The parent's perspective on her > condition has nothing to do > > > with the medical determination that would lead > to her > > > institutionalization. > > > > > > > Heh. So you don't think that Jesus would be > walking the streets today? > > > > I recall reading the grand ole dame of > deprogramming, Margeret > Singer, complaining > > about several of her patients--long-term > TMers--whose > depersonalization was so severe > > that even electroshock therapy couldn't affect > it... > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick > Archer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This is sad, from: > > > > > > > > > http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=1444&start=30&sid=e52ad8b8d85061ae > > > > > 3921fc1ef5ab5675 > > > > > > > > > > After making many millions, at one time > Maharishi told Doug that > > > he was no > > > > > longer to perform two performances each > night in Las Vegas. That > > > working two > > > > > shows per night (as all other L.V. > celebrities did) would be "too > > > exhausting > > > > > for his nervous system and interfere with > his evolution". So, Doug > > > > > renegotiated his contract for only one > performance nightly. > > > > > > > > > > That was the beginning of Doug's career > decline. > > > > > > > > > > However, Doug had plenty of money at that > point. Doug and Debbie > > > then spent > > > > > their time close with Maharishi, planning > and developing > > > VedaLand... (as > > > > > mentioned in a link above). > > > > > > > > > > Doug died a few years ago of liver cancer. > > > > > Debbie donated all of Doug's millions to the > TM Movement. She then > > > joined > > > > > the TM "Mother Divine Program". Mother > Divine is a convent-like > > > program, but > > > > > the women meditate about six hours per day. > They become very soft > > > spoken and > > > > > spacey. > > > > > > > > > > Today, I was told that Debbie's family had > her admitted to a > mental > > > > > institution a few years ago. deep sigh. > > > > > > > > > > She was once so full of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... why did they have her committed? Was it > because she was insane > > > or because she was > > > > giving her money away? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://g
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has been admitted to a mental institution. Just commenting about someone's personal life because its on this forum is not a good enough reason to respond. Making disparaging remarks about someone is grounds for legal problems. We have the freedom to talk on this forum but within legal considerations. Lou.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't be a jerk please. Someone stated that Debbie Henning has been admitted to a mental institu Now there's a surprise. Well at least he didn't poison her.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The last thing a person needs is transcending when > > they are decompensating and the ego is overwhelmed > > with primary process impulses. But unfortunately > the > > TMO will not listen to any mental health > > professionals, even meditating ones, in regard to > > people who are struggling with their program and > their > > life. > > For the vast majority of people, including people > with mental ilness, TM is useful. Even > people that have problems with TM usually find that > lying down for a few minutes after > practice and/or reducing practice time, is all that > is requierd to get rid of most side-effects. As I just posted, TM is great for anxiety and depressive disorders, but some disorders, especially psychosis, TM or any internal, unstructured activity is the absolutely worst thing that could be done. Transcending is not good for very weak minds. > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
On Nov 27, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Peter wrote: > As I just posted, TM is great for anxiety and > depressive disorders, Dr. Pete, I thought it was supposed to be an effortless technique for the reduction of stress in general--that's what I remember. I don't recall hearing anything about anxiety or depression. Did I miss something? Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
If Debbie Henning went nuts I'm very sorry to hear it. She was a great person. Still is, I'm sure. - Original Message - From: "bob_brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:58 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >> Jason, you're actually wrong here. If a person is >> decompensating and their ego structures are breaking >> down and they are identified with those structures, >> they are becoming psychotic. They need much less or no >> meditation and plenty of activity to engage the mind, >> senses and language. People have different nervous >> systems. Some can have no problem with long hours of >> meditastion, such as yourself, others flip out. >> > > *** > > I think the advice from TM teachers was that one with a physical > ailment could meditate as long as they were comfortable with long > practice, and Jason had malaria, not a psychological complaint. All > that energy from long practice went into healing the physical > complaint, and was not fodder for decompensation. > > > >> --- Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > >> > There is Nothing wrong with practicing TM for >> > long periods. >> > >> > I used to practice TM for 8 or 9 hours a >> > day.!! I was sufering from Chronic Malaria for two >> > years, a sub-lethal attack. I took a long time for >> > the Doctors to diagnoise it. During that period I >> > practice TM for very extended periods. I don't >> > practice that long off late. >> > >> > But, TM is a Scientific technique practiced for >> > thousands of years by Vedic Seers. >> > >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> > Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 16:17:21 EST >> > Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Debbie Henning >> > >> > >> > Wow. Could this be true about Debbie? To the >> > person who posted this about someone's personal life >> > where are you getting this kind of information from? >> > Debbie deserves our prayers if this information is >> > true. MMY has gotten in trouble in the past with the >> > TMX organization back in 1985 with TM and TM Sidhi >> > practitioners who meditated too much and came down >> > with side effects that are not positive. Why MMY >> > keeps pushing the nervous systems of some people is >> > beyond me. This could effect MMY spiritual growth >> > when he passes over. His status in the fifth >> > dimension could be lowered. If the information is >> > true my heart goes out to her and her family. Just a >> > word of advise to everyone out their that can be >> > passed on. If you're having problems in your >> > programs slow down. You might want to meditate only >> > once a day. If your doing the Sidhi's and your >> > screaming or throwing things against the wall stop >> > your program and just meditate and take it from >> > their. If you move to fast on the >> > spiritual path you can have an emotional or >> > physiological fallout. Don't listen to TM teachers >> > who say your just unstressing and continue. They >> > have no brains in their heads when they talk like >> > this. >> > It iscommon sense. And believe it or not MMY lacks >> > in common sense at times even though everyone thinks >> > he's enlightened. Love and Light. >> > Lou Valentino >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > - >> > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail >> beta. >> >> >> >> >> > __ > __ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. >> http://new.mail.yahoo.com >> > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
> Sometimes sensitive people just have mental breakdowns. > Does anyone know if Michael Richards, has cut back on his 'Sidhi > Program'? > R.G. > R.G. I had what I have decided is a nervous breakdown at one job where I walked out. I'm a tough guy. Shit happens. Best if people allow others to get over such things and not judge. (Read between the lines - it can happen to you too). That's why weight is restricted on the camel.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
--- Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Nov 27, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Peter wrote: > > > As I just posted, TM is great for anxiety and > > depressive disorders, > > > Dr. Pete, > I thought it was supposed to be an effortless > technique for the > reduction of stress in general--that's what I > remember. I don't recall > hearing anything about anxiety or depression. Did I > miss something? > > Sal Reduction of stress improves depressive symptoms and anxiety. > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning
On Nov 27, 2006, at 8:58 AM, Peter wrote: > --- Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Nov 27, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Peter wrote: >> >>> As I just posted, TM is great for anxiety and >>> depressive disorders, >> >> >> Dr. Pete, >> I thought it was supposed to be an effortless >> technique for the >> reduction of stress in general--that's what I >> remember. I don't recall >> hearing anything about anxiety or depression. Did I >> miss something? >> >> Sal > > Reduction of stress improves depressive symptoms and > anxiety. That's the theory, I realize, but in practice it didn't do a whole lot for mine, and I meditated regularly for years. I didn't start for that reason, either, so I wasn't disappointed. What I did notice was a reduction in some low-level stress, and that's all to the good. But as far as improving symptoms of depression and anxiety, not much. In fact, considering some of the actions of a few of the people I and some others encountered on various courses, (a very few, it might be noted--most were great) a couple of whom seemed to act without much conscience or concern for others, it might have worsened them. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
The movement is probably the most supportive environment for her socially. All the rounding may be destabilizing, but she is movement royalty and that has its advantages. The rest of the world would be a hard reality to face at this point I imagine. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From a friend: > > rick, > > noticed the d.henning posts on fflife...i've been told she's staying in > vedic city right now and doing the course...been out of the hospital for > awhile...apparently gave a lot of money to the tmo but not all of it. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From a friend: > > rick, > > noticed the d.henning posts on fflife...i've been told she's > staying in vedic city right now and doing the course...been > out of the hospital for awhile...apparently gave a lot of > money to the tmo but not all of it. That's great to hear; she must have gotten good treatment where she was hospitalized. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she > needs is a long program! She needs to place her > attention 100% in the relative and not drift off into > some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully > engages her mind and FOOD. Yeah! Rich, starchy Movement food! > > --- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From a friend: > > > > rick, > > > > noticed the d.henning posts on fflife...i've been > > told she's staying in > > vedic city right now and doing the course...been out > > of the hospital for > > awhile...apparently gave a lot of money to the tmo > > but not all of it. > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From a friend: > > rick, > > noticed the d.henning posts on fflife...i've been told she's staying in > vedic city right now and doing the course...been out of the hospital for > awhile...apparently gave a lot of money to the tmo but not all of it. > Well, then, in the non-8-hours in the Dome and the non-8-hours she is sleeping, have Little Debbie visit us here on this forum and tell us what life is like for her. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The movement is probably the most supportive environment for her > socially. All the rounding may be destabilizing, but she is movement > royalty Does she get to have her weight in gold like the King did? > and that has its advantages. The rest of the world would be a > hard reality to face at this point I imagine. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: > > > > From a friend: > > > > rick, > > > > noticed the d.henning posts on fflife...i've been told she's staying in > > vedic city right now and doing the course...been out of the hospital for > > awhile...apparently gave a lot of money to the tmo but not all of it. > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she > needs is a long program! She needs to place her > attention 100% in the relative and not drift off into > some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully > engages her mind and FOOD. > Who said she was ever psychotic? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From a friend: > > rick, > > noticed the d.henning posts on fflife...i've been told she's staying in > vedic city right now and doing the course...been out of the hospital for > awhile...apparently gave a lot of money to the tmo but not all of it. > Sounds Like Judy was right: was a depressiona thing after Doug died, not her family's decision to take her out of circulation (which is how theoriginal post sounded). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > The movement is probably the most supportive environment for her > > socially. All the rounding may be destabilizing, but she is > movement > > royalty > > > > > Does she get to have her weight in gold like the King did? > > > > Is she a research scientist? Tony Nader's weight in gold was a publicity gimmick. He got that much money as a research grant. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > > wrote: > > > > > > If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she > > > needs is a long program! She needs to place her > > > attention 100% in the relative and not drift off > > into > > > some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully > > > engages her mind and FOOD. > > > > > > > Who said she was ever psychotic? > > I can almost (almost) assure you that she has/had > symptoms of psychosis, the most common psychological > disorder from too much TM and TM-siddhis program. In > fact all the cases of "madness" from TM that I know > about are experiences of psychosis. Also, you only get > commited for psychotic symtoms. These can accompany > severe mood disorders, but I doubt Debbie had that > diagnosis. What th f*ck is she doing on a long > program? She's going to relapse again if someone > doesn't know what they are doing. > Well you had best immediately call the psychiatrists who diagnosed her, had her under her daily supervision and monitoring, and then deemed her able to go back to "world" and TMO stuff, and tell them, that you read an internet chat forum about Debbie and tell them, "your diagnosis is TOTALY wrong and inappropriate!" Distance ritam diagnoses are a wonderful thing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > > wrote: > > > > > > If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she > > > needs is a long program! She needs to place her > > > attention 100% in the relative and not drift off > > into > > > some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully > > > engages her mind and FOOD. > > > > > > > Who said she was ever psychotic? > > I can almost (almost) assure you that she has/had > symptoms of psychosis, the most common psychological > disorder from too much TM and TM-siddhis program. In > fact all the cases of "madness" from TM that I know > about are experiences of psychosis. Also, you only get > commited for psychotic symtoms. These can accompany > severe mood disorders, but I doubt Debbie had that > diagnosis. What th f*ck is she doing on a long > program? She's going to relapse again if someone > doesn't know what they are doing. > It'll take at least one more Levi-Butler-type episode to get the TMO to institute guidelines. Probably three or four. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > It'll take at least one more Levi-Butler-type episode to get the TMO > to institute guidelines. Probably three or four. Well, Barbara Wallace (Keith's first wife) shot someone -- during flying session i think -- for being too loud. Norwegian ? purusha set him self on fire. Some or someone threw them selves of FF RR tracks. A number of other cases as i recall. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > It'll take at least one more Levi-Butler-type episode to get > > the TMO to institute guidelines. Probably three or four. > > Well, Barbara Wallace (Keith's first wife) shot someone -- during > flying session i think -- for being too loud. > > Norwegian ? purusha set him self on fire. > > Some or someone threw them selves of FF RR tracks. > > A number of other cases as i recall. What's the average freakout rate among the normal population? And how does it compare to the freakout rate among TMers as a whole? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > > wrote: > > > > > > If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she > > > needs is a long program! She needs to place her > > > attention 100% in the relative and not drift off > > into > > > some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully > > > engages her mind and FOOD. > > > > > Who said she was ever psychotic? > > I can almost (almost) assure you that she has/had > symptoms of psychosis, the most common psychological > disorder from too much TM and TM-siddhis program. Especially in people who have just lost their spouse, right? In > fact all the cases of "madness" from TM that I know > about are experiences of psychosis. Also, you only get > commited for psychotic symtoms. Definition of Psychosis Psychosis: In the general sense, a mental illness that markedly interferes with a person's capacity to meet life's everyday demands. In a specific sense, it refers to a thought disorder in which reality testing is grossly impaired. Symptoms can include seeing, hearing, smelling, or tasting things that are not there; paranoia; and delusional thoughts. Depending on the condition underlying the psychotic symptoms, symptoms may be constant or they may come and go. Psychosis can occur as a result of brain injury or disease, and is seen particularly in schizophrenia and bipolar disordersDiagnosis is by observation and interview. http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5110 > These can accompany > severe mood disorders, but I doubt Debbie had that > diagnosis. You don't think she could have been clinically depressed? Would a suicide attempt be enough to have someone committed? Also, when someone is committed, as I understand it, it's because they aren't willing or able to sign themselves into the hospital. The original quote from Rick Ross's board says her parents "had her admitted," not "committed." That may be simply imprecise use of terminology; or it may reflect that her parents convinced (or pressured) her to sign herself in. It's possible she was clear-headed enough (if she were seriously depressed, say) to recognize that her parents were right and that she needed to be hospitalized (in which case she would not have had to have been psychotic per se). Because her parents apparently played a major role, we're assuming they went through the full-dress legal procedure and therefore that she must have been psychotic. But that's on the basis of an at least second-hand informal report, something the person says she was told (no source mentioned). The last three sentences of that post give a pretty clear idea of this person's agenda: "The Inside TM-myth about Debbie's condition, 'Doug and Debbie were soul mates. They were totally connected as one soul in two bodies. When Doug died, Debbie no longer had a purpose for living' "In reality, IMHO, once the guru got the bucks.. he had no further use for her. "The individuality was erroded [sic] so slowly & insidiously. The highly honored devotees at the top (of any cultic group) totally surrendered their sense of self to the leader.." It certainly sounds as though the "Inside TM-myth" is that Debbie was depressed, as I suggested. (I suspect that if she "surrendered her sense of self" to anybody, it was to Henning himself.) In any case, I wouldn't put it past this person to try to make it sound as though her illness were *so* bad her parents had to commit her, without actually using the term "committed." This person may have no idea of the circumstances, and hence neither do we. What th f*ck is she doing on a long > program? She's going to relapse again if someone > doesn't know what they are doing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 9/18/06 1:59 PM, new.morning at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Well, Barbara Wallace (Keith's first wife) shot someone > > > Jessamine Verrill > > > > -- during > > flying session i think -- for being too loud. > > > No. in the courtyard at Pac Pal. Not for the reason you said. My wife was > there. How badly injured were they? Did they die? Is this the mother of the Wallace kids (around 25-30 now) who were onced featured on an TMO tape with MMY (two boys)? > > > > Norwegian ? purusha set him self on fire. > > > Swedish. Sten Sjostead (sp?) Did he die? > > > > Some or someone threw them selves of FF RR tracks. > > > A student. > What happened to him? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sep 18, 2006, at 2:55 PM, authfriend wrote: > > >> I can almost (almost) assure you that she has/had > >> symptoms of psychosis, the most common psychological > >> disorder from too much TM and TM-siddhis program. > > > > Especially in people who have just lost their > > spouse, right? > > Judy, just out of curiosity, where does the idea come > from that clinical depression, or freaking out, or > whatever you want to call it, I sure wouldn't call clinical depression "freaking out." > is more common amongst those who have just lost their > spouses, than in general? Dr. Pete, can you comment on > this? I don't believe I said it was more common, actually. That was not at all the point I was making. Try reading it again in the context of what Peter had said, see if you can figure it out. > From what I've read, when one spouse does die, especially > if the marriage has been healthy, the person is able to go > on with their life fairly well, after a period of mourning > the loss. "Freaking out" usually isn't part of the equation > IIRC, especially after a protracted illness. No, not usually. But then, I never said it was. It's still a > shock, yeah, but not one that normally shoots the person's > entire wad, so to speak. No, not normally. But then, I never said it was. > So I'm wondering where you get the idea from that > it's normal, or even sort of normal, to wind up in > an institution after dealing with a spouse's death? I never even *remotely* suggested it was "normal" or even "sort of normal," and I haven't a clue where you got the idea that I did. > Does this happen all the time where you are? You mean, in New Jersey? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sep 18, 2006, at 2:55 PM, authfriend wrote: > > >> I can almost (almost) assure you that she has/had > >> symptoms of psychosis, the most common psychological > >> disorder from too much TM and TM-siddhis program. > > > > Especially in people who have just lost their > > spouse, right? Sal, I am guessing that Judy was being sarcastic inthe above comment about people who have just lost their spouse. > > Judy, just out of curiosity, where does the idea come from that > clinical depression, or freaking out, or whatever you want to call it, > is more common amongst those who have just lost their spouses, than in > general? Dr. Pete, can you comment on this? > > From what I've read, when one spouse does die, especially if the > marriage has been healthy, the person is able to go on with their life > fairly well, after a period of mourning the loss. "Freaking out" > usually isn't part of the equation IIRC, especially after a protracted > illness. It's still a shock, yeah, but not one that normally shoots > the person's entire wad, so to speak. > > So I'm wondering where you get the idea from that it's normal, or even > sort of normal, to wind up in an institution after dealing with a > spouse's death? Does this happen all the time where you are? > > Sal > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sep 18, 2006, at 5:25 PM, authfriend wrote: > > >> So I'm wondering where you get the idea from that > >> it's normal, or even sort of normal, to wind up in > >> an institution after dealing with a spouse's death? > > > > I never even *remotely* suggested it was "normal" or > > even "sort of normal," and I haven't a clue where you > > got the idea that I did. > > OK, good. "OK, Judy, I sure seem to have misunderstood you completely on a whole bunch of points." Then why do you keep mentioning her illness in relation to > her having lost Doug, as if one almost followed naturally from the > other? I believe I've mentioned it exactly twice. > It doesn't. In fact, from what I've been able to gather, > Debbie's condition, *if* brought forth solely or even mostly, by > Doug's death, would be somewhat rare. You kept trying to connect > the two as if it were far more common. That seemed to be clearly > your intention. I'm glad you've learned better. :) Let's see if you are able to learn better. I doubt it, but maybe, *just maybe*, this will help: My point in both cases had nothing whatsoever to do with how common clinical depression is or is not following the death of a spouse. We don't even know whether Debbie had clinical depression. We *do* know she became emotionally ill after Doug died. In both cases, the folks I was responding to appeared to be attributing Debbie's illness to her TM practice. My point was that before assuming someone's emotional illness was caused by their TM practice, we should ask whether there was anything *else* going on in their lives that might have been responsible. In Debbie's case, she had just gone through an extremely traumatic experience. Some people *do* fall apart after the death of a spouse; it isn't uncommon (in other words, although it isn't common, it isn't as rare as you suggest). That's why there are therapists who specialize in grief counseling, to help such people get themselves together again. If they're predisposed to depression, they may become clinically depressed. Or they could suffer from severe anxiety, or any number of other conditions. This is regardless of whether the marriage was "healthy." Any major trauma--and the death of a spouse usually constitutes such a trauma--can trigger a breakdown, even in apparently psychologically healthy people. There may be a chemical component, for example, or the person may have a weak spot in their psychological makeup that had never before been assaulted. Most likely, I should think, joining Mother Divine didn't help, if only because it wouldn't have given her the opportunity to grieve, which is essential for recovering from bereavement. She may have joined MD, at least subconsciously, to avoid *having* to grieve, since it wouldn't have been encouraged. Grieving isn't a fun process. She may have found her grief so overwhelming that she thought she had to find some way not to have to confront it. And she likely wouldn't have gotten a lot of help when she began to fall apart, either, however that manifested itself. I wouldn't be *surprised* if the extended TM practice in MD also helped trigger the breakdown, but I'll bet you a buck that joining MD was a symptom of a preexisting problem that proceeded to get worse because she was trying to escape it rather than deal with it. I also suspect giving away most of her money was another symptom. But bottom line, whatever went wrong with Debbie, one would want to *rule out* that it was triggered by Doug's death before automatically attributing it to her TM practice. That was the point I was making. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > > wrote: > > > > > > If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she > > > needs is a long program! She needs to place her > > > attention 100% in the relative and not drift off > > into > > > some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully > > > engages her mind and FOOD. > > > > > > > Who said she was ever psychotic? > > I can almost (almost) assure you that she has/had > symptoms of psychosis, the most common psychological > disorder from too much TM and TM-siddhis program. In > fact all the cases of "madness" from TM that I know > about are experiences of psychosis. Also, you only get > commited for psychotic symtoms. These can accompany > severe mood disorders, but I doubt Debbie had that > diagnosis. What th f*ck is she doing on a long > program? She's going to relapse again if someone > doesn't know what they are doing. > So you've done research into what is the most common psychological disorder that results from too much TM? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- sparaig wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she > > > > needs is a long program! She needs to place her > > > > attention 100% in the relative and not drift off > > > into > > > > some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully > > > > engages her mind and FOOD. > > > > > > > > > > Who said she was ever psychotic? > > > > I can almost (almost) assure you that she has/had > > symptoms of psychosis, the most common psychological > > disorder from too much TM and TM-siddhis program. In > > fact all the cases of "madness" from TM that I know > > about are experiences of psychosis. Also, you only get > > commited for psychotic symtoms. These can accompany > > severe mood disorders, but I doubt Debbie had that > > diagnosis. What th f*ck is she doing on a long > > program? She's going to relapse again if someone > > doesn't know what they are doing. > > > > > > > > > It'll take at least one more Levi-Butler-type episode to get the TMO > to institute guidelines. Probably three or four. > One hears all these stories and yet, I was on an 8 week intesnsive (at least by today's standards) rounding course in 1984 with about 50 other people and didn't see but one person with ANYHING remotely like what everone says is commonplace. My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't pretty. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It'll take at least one more Levi-Butler-type episode to get the TMO > > to institute guidelines. Probably three or four. > > > Well, Barbara Wallace (Keith's first wife) shot someone -- during > flying session i think -- for being too loud. > > Norwegian ? purusha set him self on fire. > > Some or someone threw them selves of FF RR tracks. > > A number of other cases as i recall. > Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice Kundalini techniques. How many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > wrote: > > > > > > It'll take at least one more Levi-Butler-type episode to get > > > the TMO to institute guidelines. Probably three or four. > > > > Well, Barbara Wallace (Keith's first wife) shot someone -- during > > flying session i think -- for being too loud. > > > > Norwegian ? purusha set him self on fire. > > > > Some or someone threw them selves of FF RR tracks. > > > > A number of other cases as i recall. > > What's the average freakout rate among the normal > population? And how does it compare to the freakout > rate among TMers as a whole? > "What's the feakout rate for people who aren't self-selected?" is a better question. Another is: "what's the freakout rate for people practicing some other meditative technique?" To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
> Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice Kundalini techniques. How > many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? I know of one documented case in the movement. With the popular teacher Jesus advocating it, I am surprised it is not more common among believers: Matthew 19:12 "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it." It caused a weird cult of people "accepting it" around the time of Marcus Garvey. Nice topic! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It'll take at least one more Levi-Butler-type episode to get the TMO > > > to institute guidelines. Probably three or four. > > > > > > Well, Barbara Wallace (Keith's first wife) shot someone -- during > > flying session i think -- for being too loud. > > > > Norwegian ? purusha set him self on fire. > > > > Some or someone threw them selves of FF RR tracks. > > > > A number of other cases as i recall. > > > > Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice Kundalini techniques. How > many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice > Kundalini techniques. How > > many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? > > I know of one documented case in the movement. > > With the popular teacher Jesus advocating it, I am surprised > it is not more common among believers: > > Matthew 19:12 > "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's > womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there > are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the > kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept > it." You can't be serious. You understand this as Jesus advocating self-castration?? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > > Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice > > Kundalini techniques. How > > > many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? > > > > I know of one documented case in the movement. > > > > With the popular teacher Jesus advocating it, I am surprised > > it is not more common among believers: > > > > Matthew 19:12 > > "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's > > womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there > > are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the > > kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept > > it." > > You can't be serious. You understand this as Jesus > advocating self-castration?? > Our whole culture is 'castrated', Haven't you noticed?? We are like insatiable whores, we can't get enough... Woman rule us, with an Iron Fist; The last man we had in the WH, was Hillary Clinton. R.G. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > > Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice > > Kundalini techniques. How > > > many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? > > > > I know of one documented case in the movement. > > > > With the popular teacher Jesus advocating it, I am surprised > > it is not more common among believers: > > > > Matthew 19:12 > > "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's > > womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there > > are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the > > kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept > > it." > > You can't be serious. You understand this as Jesus > advocating self-castration?? > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
"Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie" Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > wrote: > > > > > > > Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice > > > Kundalini techniques. How > > > > many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? > > > > > > I know of one documented case in the movement. > > > > > > With the popular teacher Jesus advocating it, I am surprised > > > it is not more common among believers: > > > > > > Matthew 19:12 > > > "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's > > > womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there > > > are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the > > > kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept > > > it." > > > > You can't be serious. You understand this as Jesus > > advocating self-castration?? > > > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers > were taught to lie" > > Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that > statement about what teachers were taught? > > Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > wrote: > > > > > > > Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice > > > Kundalini techniques. How > > > > many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? > > > > > > I know of one documented case in the movement. > > > > > > With the popular teacher Jesus advocating it, I am surprised > > > it is not more common among believers: > > > > > > Matthew 19:12 > > > "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's > > > womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there > > > are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the > > > kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept > > > it." > > > > You can't be serious. You understand this as Jesus > > advocating self-castration?? > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. It's a good thing Curtis has turned against religion. He'd be the worst kind of religious fundamentalist if he hadn't. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice > Kundalini techniques. How > > many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? > > I know of one documented case in the movement. > > With the popular teacher Jesus advocating it, I am surprised it is not > more common among believers: > > Matthew 19:12 > "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's > womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there > are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the > kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it." > > It caused a weird cult of people "accepting it" around the time of > Marcus Garvey. > > Nice topic! Thanks, Curtis! That's way interesting. The Finnish "translation" is, to say the least, rather lame; something like "those, who have chosen not to marry". The Latin goes like "qui se ipsos castraverunt"... (those who castrate themselves), and the German "die sich selbst verschnitten haben um des Himmelreichs willen." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were > heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. > and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: > super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't > pretty. Good dog. Blame the victim two more times and you'll earn the True Believer merit badge. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick > that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain "embarrassing" questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. Face it, dude...your whole life revolves around spending hours a day on this forum and on a.m.t. "defending" everything you've been told by Maharishi and the TMO as if it were The Truth. And what you're upset about is that some of the TM teachers are now telling you that it WASN'T The Truth -- it was just the lie they were taught to tell you in that type of situation. Believe it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > "Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that > > TM teachers were taught to lie" > > Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that > statement about what teachers were taught? Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > > > > "Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM > > > teacherwere taught to lie" > > > > Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that > > statement about what teachers were taught? > > Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, about the number of mantras and how they were selected, and about certain "hot button" subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught "pat answers" to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty "Yes." He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were > > heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. > > and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: > > super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't > > pretty. > > Good dog. Blame the victim two more times and > you'll earn the True Believer merit badge. :-) > Woof. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick > > that TM teachers were taught to lie. > > And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten > that what this admission means, if true, is that > *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. > > I can think of dozens of instances in which I, > as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About > half of them were during my TTC, in terms of > how to answer certain "embarrassing" questions, > and the other half were while I was working for > the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... > > Face it, dude...your whole life revolves around > spending hours a day on this forum and on a.m.t. > "defending" everything you've been told by > Maharishi and the TMO as if it were The Truth. > > And what you're upset about is that some of the > TM teachers are now telling you that it WASN'T > The Truth -- it was just the lie they were taught > to tell you in that type of situation. Believe it. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > > "Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that > > > TM teachers were taught to lie" > > > > Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that > > statement about what teachers were taught? > > Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. > > The things they parrot here as if they were Great > Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them > by people just like us, who had been trained to > lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) > whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical > Thought A) came up. Name three such things, please. Just three. > Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to > be told that they know The Truth, they chose to > believe everything they were told. The more they > believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when > former TM teachers suggest that some of the things > they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. Name three such things, please. Just three. > It's understandable. Don't take their hostility > personally. We are challenging their most cherished > fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and > us -- when we do so. Name three such things, please. Just three. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > > "Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that > > > TM teachers were taught to lie" > > > > Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that > > statement about what teachers were taught? > > Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. > > The things they parrot here as if they were Great > Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them > by people just like us, who had been trained to > lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) > whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical > Thought A) came up. > > Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to > be told that they know The Truth, they chose to > believe everything they were told. The more they > believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when > former TM teachers suggest that some of the things > they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. > > It's understandable. Don't take their hostility > personally. We are challenging their most cherished > fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and > us -- when we do so. > So... Examples please? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > > > > "Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM > > > > teacherwere taught to lie" > > > > > > Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that > > > statement about what teachers were taught? > > > > Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? > > Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the puja? about > whether or not people were asked to kneel during > it, What was the lie you were taught to tell about whether or not people were asked to kneel during the puja? about the number of mantras and how they were > selected, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the number of mantras and how they were selected? and about certain "hot button" subjects > that were likely to come up in lectures or in > interviews. For the latter, we were taught "pat > answers" to use in each situation, answers that > in many cases we knew not to be true. Cite three of these lies, please. We were also > taught things to say about other forms of meditation > (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) > negative and 2) not true. Cite three of these lies, please. > But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly > won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in > and answers his question with a hearty "Yes." Speaking for myself, I'll withhold judgment until someone is willing to cite specifics rather than vague generalities. (That won't be Berry, though.) > He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that > what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that > many of the things he was told were calculated > lies. Cite three of these fantasies, please. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly > > won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in > > and answers his question with a hearty "Yes." > > Speaking for myself, I'll withhold judgment until > someone is willing to cite specifics rather than > vague generalities. P.S.: Especially when the person spouting the vague generalities is a well-documented chronic liar himself. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick > > > that TM teachers were taught to lie. > > > > And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten > > that what this admission means, if true, is that > > *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. > > > > I can think of dozens of instances in which I, > > as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About > > half of them were during my TTC, in terms of > > how to answer certain "embarrassing" questions, > > and the other half were while I was working for > > the National Center in L.A. > > OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical "course credit." When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be "earning" each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the "higher ups" (meaning, in this case, probably "International Staff" decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
> Thanks, Curtis! That's way interesting. The Finnish "translation" is, > to say the least, rather lame; something like "those, who have > chosen not to marry". The Latin goes like "qui se ipsos > castraverunt"... (those who castrate themselves), and the German > "die sich selbst verschnitten haben um des Himmelreichs willen." > Thanks for the follow up. The Latin is even scarier especially considering Catholic's long reliance on that language. I like the Finnish dodge which is the current way to make the problem go away. That is does not make sense in the statement does not matter to believers. There is only one path to making oneself a eunuch! Anymore insights on the original words is appreciated. If it is all clear in Aramaic that would be interesting. With a history of Castrati singers man's casual attitude towards another man's manhood is dark. This verse inspired a whole cult which swept through prisons in the South US to take him at his word. I am looking for the reference to those guys. The Heaven's Gate cult was a recent example of a castration cult. I guess I got off easy with TM! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > > Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice > > Kundalini techniques. How > > > many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? > > > > I know of one documented case in the movement. > > > > With the popular teacher Jesus advocating it, I am surprised it is > not > > more common among believers: > > > > Matthew 19:12 > > "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's > > womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there > > are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the > > kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept > it." > > > > It caused a weird cult of people "accepting it" around the time of > > Marcus Garvey. > > > > Nice topic! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. We have both been down this road before. Of course the many examples of MMY himself lieing his ass off are also forgiven to preserve the perfect daddy guru. It is an interesting that this is not a topic most teachers would touch. Unless they never ran a center or taught long, they know better. The original quote Spraig brought up came from a guy from JAMA who had been lied to by the movement, Chopra at the time, on the disclosure of business relationships to their study. He asked me how can a spiritual group make a boldface lie like that, connecting its spiritual facade with even the lowest grade of ethics. Funny that Spraig should bring this up as the ultimate credibility challenge to me, that I claimed to have been taught to lie for MMY! What a joke. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick > > > > that TM teachers were taught to lie. > > > > > > And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten > > > that what this admission means, if true, is that > > > *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. > > > > > > I can think of dozens of instances in which I, > > > as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About > > > half of them were during my TTC, in terms of > > > how to answer certain "embarrassing" questions, > > > and the other half were while I was working for > > > the National Center in L.A. > > > > OK. So howabout examples... > > No time today to do the subject justice, and > probably no interest in doing it later in the > week when things are less busy. > > I'll give you one example of the latter type > of lie, the ones while working at National. > > After my period as a State Coordinator, > I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job > at National while he was away on his sidhis > course. So for a few months I was asked to lie > to employees there at National on pretty much > a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the > people I was interviewing) on pretty much a > daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with > the mythical "course credit." > > When each of these existing employees had signed > on, they had been told in explicit terms how much > credit they would be "earning" each month towards > ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the > new employees I was interviewing was told the > same thing. > > But about the time I arrived, the "higher ups" > (meaning, in this case, probably "International > Staff" decided that they couldn't afford this any > more, and thus had no intention of ever giving > *any* of these people eve a penny towards any > course. I was forbidden to tell them this. > > The way it worked was that when an employee > applied to take the course they had been working > towards, they were taken into an office and told > that they had received no credit, and that this > was a new policy that was a surprise to the person > telling them this. (I never had to be the person > who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it > off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped > off, they were fired on the spot. > > After a couple of months of this, I quit and went > to my own course, which fortunately I had enough > money to pay for myself, and which even more > fortunately turned out to be my last with the > TM movement ever. > > This is just one example of how we were told to > lie to people. There are many others. If the TM > teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come > up with a few examples of their own... > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Just a few quick replies, even though we ALL know she'll do nothing with them but nitpick and claim "Why those aren't really lies...they're just an alternative way of saying things." :-) :-) :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, > > What was the lie you were taught to tell > about the puja? Several: -- When asked, "Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned in the puja?" -- answer "No." This is obviously not true. -- When asked, "Are the words 'I bow down' included in the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of the names mentioned?" -- answer "No." This is equally not true. -- When asked, "Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual?" -- answer "No." In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. > > about > > whether or not people were asked to kneel during > > it, > > What was the lie you were taught to tell about > whether or not people were asked to kneel during > the puja? -- When asked, "Is it mandatory for the student to kneel during initiation?" -- answer "No." HOWEVER, in the explicit instructions given to me and other TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we were epxlicitly told to never teach the person UNLESS they knelt. > > about the number of mantras and how they were > > selected, > > What was the lie you were taught to tell about > the number of mantras and how they were selected? -- When asked, "How many mantras are used in TM," we were told never to answer this question, but to hint that there were "very many...dozens or more." -- When asked, "How are they selected?" we were told never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were selected based on "a large number of different criteria" known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only one criterion. I'll let other teachers add their own if they care to. I will not respond in any way to any of Judy's expected (and inevitable attempts) to turn this into another of her infinite argument sessions. Even if she has no life, I do, and it is calling this week. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > With a history of Castrati singers man's casual attitude towards > another man's manhood is dark. This verse inspired a whole cult > which swept through prisons in the South US to take him at his > word. I am looking for the reference to those guys. The Heaven's > Gate cult was a recent example of a castration cult. I guess I got > off easy with TM! Maybe you just got out before it started being a requirement, eh? Haven't you noticed that a lot of the "recertified" teachers talk in a somewhat high, effeminate voice? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no > number of examples that will be considered proof. And if > one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, > that will be considered the final word. We have both been > down this road before. Yup. I'll be interested to see how many, if any, of the other teachers on this forum are willing to mention some of the many ways in which they were instructed to tell lies by the TMO. It's possible that some will, but equally possible that this subject will be met with a complete and stony silence. :-) I'd be willing to bet that (as usual) it'll be the people who never had the balls to become teachers them- selves who will be screaming that we're liars and that *they* know the real truth about what TM teachers did and didn't do. Those who actually *did* become teachers, and actually taught, will probably either agree with us or remain silent... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Thanks, Curtis! That's way interesting. The Finnish "translation" is, > > to say the least, rather lame; something like "those, who have > > chosen not to marry". The Latin goes like "qui se ipsos > > castraverunt"... (those who castrate themselves), and the German > > "die sich selbst verschnitten haben um des Himmelreichs willen." > > Thanks for the follow up. The Latin is even scarier especially > considering Catholic's long reliance on that language. I like the > Finnish dodge which is the current way to make the problem go away. > That is does not make sense in the statement does not matter to > believers. There is only one path to making oneself a eunuch! > Anymore insights on the original words is appreciated. If it is all > clear in Aramaic that would be interesting. >From the Wikipedia article on "eunuch": Non-castrated eunuchs There is much evidence indicating that ancient and medieval cultures used the term "eunuch" much differently than we do today. In the compendium of ancient Roman civil law created by Justinian I in the 6th century known as the Digest or Pandects, eunuchs are characterized as "not diseased or defective" and as physically capable of procreation (Digest 21.1.6.2) -- that is, unless they are "missing a necessary part" of their anatomy (D 21.1.7). This implies that some eunuchs are anatomically whole. The word eunuch is said to be a general designation that includes eunuchs "by nature" as well as those who have suffered some kind of physical injury (D 50.16.128). Eunuchs are also distinguished from "castrati" in the Roman laws: eunuchs, if not castrated, were eligible to marry women (D 23.3.39.1), institute posthumous heirs (D 28.2.6), and adopt children (Institutions of Justinian 1.11.9), while castrati were excluded from all of these rights. In her essay "Living in the Shadows: Eunuchs and Gender in Byzantium," Kathryn M. Ringrose demonstrates how eunuch societies included not only castrated men but also homosexuals, transgenders, ascetics, celibates and a wide range of men who were technically impotent or disinterested in women for a wide range of reasons. In India, for instance, a recent study (Citation Needed) of "eunuchs" revealed that only 8% were actually castrated and less than 1% were intersexed (hermaphroditic). The vast majority of the Indian eunuchs studied were either effeminate homosexual men or crossdressing transgenders, causing many historians to wonder if a similar reality existed in other "eunuch" cultures around the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch In other words, the Greek term translated "eunuch," while it literally meant "bed-keeper," referring to castrated men who guarded a ruler's bed chamber, was commonly used to mean simply a man who did not have sex with women. In that light, have another look at the Bible verse: Matthew 19:12 "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it." The first appears to refer to men who are biologically and/or psychologically incapable of having sex with women (including, perhaps, gay men, as well as those who are impotent); the second to castrated (including self- castrated) men (perhaps also men who were not permitted to marry or even those who were sterile); and the third to men who were voluntarily celibate. It's interesting to note that in the Book of Daniel are these verses (1:3-4): "The king spoke to Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring in certain of the children of Israel, even of the seed royal and of the nobles; youths in whom was no blemish, but well-favored, and skillful in all wisdom, and endowed with knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability to stand in the king's palace; and that he should teach them the learning and the language of the Chaldeans." The master of the king's eunuchs was asked to choose from among his charges young Jewish men "in whom was no blemish." This obviously cannot refer to castrated men, yet they were called eunuchs. It's also important, as with virtually any Bible text, to look at the *context* (Matthew 19:1-11), in which Jesus is responding to a question concerning Moses, who sent his wife away so as not to be distracted in his mission of leading his people to the Promised Land. Jesus' disciples suggest that in such a situation-- nominally a divorce, which Jesus has just said is against God's law--it would be better not to marry at all. Jesus then goes on to deliver the teaching about eunuchs (Matthew 19:12), essentially asserting that not all men are *called* to be in a traditional marriage. In that context, "eunuch" clearly refers to those men who do not marry and have child
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Yeah, that is really taking one(or two) for the team! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > With a history of Castrati singers man's casual attitude towards > > another man's manhood is dark. This verse inspired a whole cult > > which swept through prisons in the South US to take him at his > > word. I am looking for the reference to those guys. The Heaven's > > Gate cult was a recent example of a castration cult. I guess I got > > off easy with TM! > > Maybe you just got out before it started being a > requirement, eh? Haven't you noticed that a lot > of the "recertified" teachers talk in a somewhat > high, effeminate voice? > > :-) > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were > > heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. > > and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: > > super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't > > pretty. > > Good dog. Blame the victim two more times and > you'll earn the True Believer merit badge. :-) > Just for fun - I went through the list of TM-Teachers and Purushas and Mother Divine that I know from Norway. It was really a sad thing. A good number got cancer - some mental illnesses - some suicide - some really weird - and some is of course healthy also - . I know one from Purusha that is not able to meditate more than a few minutes - the Sidhi-techniques is out of question. One from Mother Divine stopped with TM. The healthies ones, as I see it, is the people that have had a good balance between TM and Activity and balanced food - enjoying life outside meditation. Ingegerd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick > > > > that TM teachers were taught to lie. > > > > > > And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten > > > that what this admission means, if true, is that > > > *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. > > > > > > I can think of dozens of instances in which I, > > > as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About > > > half of them were during my TTC, in terms of > > > how to answer certain "embarrassing" questions, > > > and the other half were while I was working for > > > the National Center in L.A. > > > > OK. So howabout examples... > > No time today to do the subject justice, and > probably no interest in doing it later in the > week when things are less busy. > > I'll give you one example of the latter type > of lie, the ones while working at National. > > After my period as a State Coordinator, > I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job > at National while he was away on his sidhis > course. So for a few months I was asked to lie > to employees there at National on pretty much > a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the > people I was interviewing) on pretty much a > daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with > the mythical "course credit." > > When each of these existing employees had signed > on, they had been told in explicit terms how much > credit they would be "earning" each month towards > ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the > new employees I was interviewing was told the > same thing. > > But about the time I arrived, the "higher ups" > (meaning, in this case, probably "International > Staff" decided that they couldn't afford this any > more, and thus had no intention of ever giving > *any* of these people eve a penny towards any > course. I was forbidden to tell them this. > > The way it worked was that when an employee > applied to take the course they had been working > towards, they were taken into an office and told > that they had received no credit, and that this > was a new policy that was a surprise to the person > telling them this. (I never had to be the person > who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it > off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped > off, they were fired on the spot. > > After a couple of months of this, I quit and went > to my own course, which fortunately I had enough > money to pay for myself, and which even more > fortunately turned out to be my last with the > TM movement ever. > > This is just one example of how we were told to > lie to people. There are many others. If the TM > teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come > up with a few examples of their own... > I honestly can't and have no clue what you're talking about...and, hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and MMY but your litany is foreign to me. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of > examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher > comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the > final word. We have both been down this road before. Of course the > many examples of MMY himself lieing his ass off are also forgiven to > preserve the perfect daddy guru. It is an interesting that this is > not a topic most teachers would touch. Unless they never ran a center > or taught long, they know better. > > The original quote Spraig brought up came from a guy from JAMA who had > been lied to by the movement, Chopra at the time, on the disclosure of > business relationships to their study. He asked me how can a > spiritual group make a boldface lie like that, connecting its > spiritual facade with even the lowest grade of ethics. Funny that > Spraig should bring this up as the ultimate credibility challenge to > me, that I claimed to have been taught to lie for MMY! What a joke. So... When were you "taught to" lie? > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick > > > > > that TM teachers were taught to lie. > > > > > > > > And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten > > > > that what this admission means, if true, is that > > > > *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. > > > > > > > > I can think of dozens of instances in which I, > > > > as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About > > > > half of them were during my TTC, in terms of > > > > how to answer certain "embarrassing" questions, > > > > and the other half were while I was working for > > > > the National Center in L.A. > > > > > > OK. So howabout examples... > > > > No time today to do the subject justice, and > > probably no interest in doing it later in the > > week when things are less busy. > > > > I'll give you one example of the latter type > > of lie, the ones while working at National. > > > > After my period as a State Coordinator, > > I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job > > at National while he was away on his sidhis > > course. So for a few months I was asked to lie > > to employees there at National on pretty much > > a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the > > people I was interviewing) on pretty much a > > daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with > > the mythical "course credit." > > > > When each of these existing employees had signed > > on, they had been told in explicit terms how much > > credit they would be "earning" each month towards > > ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the > > new employees I was interviewing was told the > > same thing. > > > > But about the time I arrived, the "higher ups" > > (meaning, in this case, probably "International > > Staff" decided that they couldn't afford this any > > more, and thus had no intention of ever giving > > *any* of these people eve a penny towards any > > course. I was forbidden to tell them this. > > > > The way it worked was that when an employee > > applied to take the course they had been working > > towards, they were taken into an office and told > > that they had received no credit, and that this > > was a new policy that was a surprise to the person > > telling them this. (I never had to be the person > > who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it > > off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped > > off, they were fired on the spot. > > > > After a couple of months of this, I quit and went > > to my own course, which fortunately I had enough > > money to pay for myself, and which even more > > fortunately turned out to be my last with the > > TM movement ever. > > > > This is just one example of how we were told to > > lie to people. There are many others. If the TM > > teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come > > up with a few examples of their own... > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick > > > > that TM teachers were taught to lie. > > > > > > And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten > > > that what this admission means, if true, is that > > > *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. > > > > > > I can think of dozens of instances in which I, > > > as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About > > > half of them were during my TTC, in terms of > > > how to answer certain "embarrassing" questions, > > > and the other half were while I was working for > > > the National Center in L.A. > > > > OK. So howabout examples... > > No time today to do the subject justice, and > probably no interest in doing it later in the > week when things are less busy. > > I'll give you one example of the latter type > of lie, the ones while working at National. > > After my period as a State Coordinator, > I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job > at National while he was away on his sidhis > course. So for a few months I was asked to lie > to employees there at National on pretty much > a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the > people I was interviewing) on pretty much a > daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with > the mythical "course credit." > > When each of these existing employees had signed > on, they had been told in explicit terms how much > credit they would be "earning" each month towards > ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the > new employees I was interviewing was told the > same thing. > > But about the time I arrived, the "higher ups" > (meaning, in this case, probably "International > Staff" decided that they couldn't afford this any > more, and thus had no intention of ever giving > *any* of these people eve a penny towards any > course. I was forbidden to tell them this. > > The way it worked was that when an employee > applied to take the course they had been working > towards, they were taken into an office and told > that they had received no credit, and that this > was a new policy that was a surprise to the person > telling them this. (I never had to be the person > who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it > off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped > off, they were fired on the spot. > > After a couple of months of this, I quit and went > to my own course, which fortunately I had enough > money to pay for myself, and which even more > fortunately turned out to be my last with the > TM movement ever. > > This is just one example of how we were told to > lie to people. There are many others. If the TM > teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come > up with a few examples of their own... > OK, so the TM orgnizatio engages in shoddy, dishonest, even reprehensible business practices. That's a far cry from what Curtis was talking about to Skolnick. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no > > number of examples that will be considered proof. And if > > one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, > > that will be considered the final word. We have both been > > down this road before. > > Yup. I'll be interested to see how many, if any, of > the other teachers on this forum are willing to mention > some of the many ways in which they were instructed to > tell lies by the TMO. It's possible that some will, but > equally possible that this subject will be met with a > complete and stony silence. :-) > > I'd be willing to bet that (as usual) it'll be the > people who never had the balls to become teachers them- > selves who will be screaming that we're liars and that > *they* know the real truth about what TM teachers did and > didn't do. > > Those who actually *did* become teachers, and actually > taught, will probably either agree with us or remain > silent... > So any who disagree will be lying? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just a few quick replies, even though we ALL know > she'll do nothing with them but nitpick and claim > "Why those aren't really lies...they're just an > alternative way of saying things." :-) :-) :-) > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, > > > > What was the lie you were taught to tell > > about the puja? > > Several: > > -- When asked, "Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned > in the puja?" -- answer "No." This is obviously not true. > > -- When asked, "Are the words 'I bow down' included in > the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of > the names mentioned?" -- answer "No." This is equally > not true. > > -- When asked, "Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual?" -- answer > "No." In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses > from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. > > > > about > > > whether or not people were asked to kneel during > > > it, > > > > What was the lie you were taught to tell about > > whether or not people were asked to kneel during > > the puja? > > -- When asked, "Is it mandatory for the student to > kneel during initiation?" -- answer "No." HOWEVER, > in the explicit instructions given to me and other > TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we > were epxlicitly told to never teach the person > UNLESS they knelt. > Interesting since I knew plenty of people who never knkelt and were still taught. In my latter days of learning advanced techniques, including when I took one from Neil Patterson, I didn't kneel and yet was still taught... > > > about the number of mantras and how they were > > > selected, > > > > What was the lie you were taught to tell about > > the number of mantras and how they were selected? > > -- When asked, "How many mantras are used in TM," > we were told never to answer this question, but to > hint that there were "very many...dozens or more." > > -- When asked, "How are they selected?" we were told > never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were > selected based on "a large number of different criteria" > known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only > one criterion. > > I'll let other teachers add their own if they care to. > > I will not respond in any way to any of Judy's expected > (and inevitable attempts) to turn this into another > of her infinite argument sessions. Even if she has no > life, I do, and it is calling this week. :-) > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
