[FairfieldLife] Attributes of Various Enlightenments
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I simply disagree with you, and see much of what you have written above as invalid from my point of view. In the above, I made five basic points. 1) I rarely accept unprovable assertions as a priori true. 2) Many paths leads many peaks is a distinct possibility. 3) It improves communications if posters define the terms that they use, particularly those with many meanings. 4) Use of terms such as Enlightenment and Awakening have little value if the type of Enlightenment and Awakening, per the attributes implicitly referred to, are not identified. 5) The above (point 4) is particularly true because FFL is a forum with strong TM roots. If one is using terms such as Enlightenment and Awakening, or claiming realization of such a state, but with attributes different from the 18 or so that the TMO / MMY uses, its honest and an act of integrity to clarify that distinction. To not do so is a type of logical fallacy, if not slight of hand. Specifically, which of the above five points do you disagree with? If much of the above is invalid from your point of view, it seems to be quite an odd and restrictive POV. Is this the POV stemmming from the bedrock of your Awakening. If so, it raises many questions, on several levels as to the secret attributes of your Awakening and why such attributes create such a restrictive POV. I have never come across any form of Awakening that is either so secretive, or so restrictive as to makes fairly mainstream points (1-5 above), invalid. If my lack of acceptance of your belief system, that one should clarify their Enlightenment against a list of terms, or personally adhere to a set of imposed criteria, How odd. Where did you get the idea that i) the (directly) above sparse points would comprise a belief system, and ii) that these are my beliefs? How many times do I have to say it. I have no set critera for Enlightenment or Awakening. These are not terms I use. You do use these terms. Thus, I am simply asking for clarification on how the enlightenment attributes that you are experiencing differ from the 18 attributes MMY and the TMO have used. There is no wrong answer. You have personally defined enlightenment to consist of certain attributes that you experinece. Why is the question, what are these attriburtes? such a hard question for you? You are claiming some secret attribute enlightenment. How can possibly I deny or accept something that is a secret? But acceptance and denial are neither germane or a question at hand. I accept that you feel you are enlightened. I am simply asking what attributes do you experience that lead you to conclude that you are enlightened. To assist you, I provided a list of 18 MMY has used. Just say which are included in your personal definition and experience of enlightenment and any others that you use in your definition which are not on the list. I fail to see the cause of your reluctance nor the difficulty of the task. You have said the sole reason that you talk about your enlightenment is to let people know its achievable. But all you have revealed is that your enlightenment is different than the one MMY refers to. Other than that, the attributes of your enlightenment are double super secret. Why would that inspire anyone? You appear to be saying: I want to let all of you know that I am a living example that enlightenment can be achieved. Its different than MMY's enlightenment, and I am not going to tell you anything about my enlightenemnt or its attributes. But rest assured, it IS achievable. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Illusionary Awakening
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: 'the state where all illusions have been dissolved'? Actually I probably call it who gives a sh*t. I don't YOU WV appears to have a hierarchy of states, among them: -- Ignornce -- Awakinging - with illusion -- No Illusions All I [strongly] implied was that I am not much for coming up with a label for 'the state where all illusions have been dissolved'. Some wags, even careful readers, might therefore term your state of Awakening with Illusions as Illusionary Awakening. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Attributes of Various Enlightenments
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: snip You appear to be saying: I want to let all of you know that I am a living example that enlightenment can be achieved. Its different than MMY's enlightenment, and I am not going to tell you anything about my enlightenemnt or its attributes. But rest assured, it IS achievable. As I said yesterday: The Self in each of us recognizes the Self in another. We are conscious of this to one degree or another, whether our Self has been fully awakened to us, or not. This is how someone somewhat Awake will recognize another who is fully Awake, and vice versa. There it is in a nutshell. Believe it, call it BS, call it uninspiring, ignore it, do what ever you want with it, or not. And Yes, Enlightenment, Awakening, Self-Realization IS achievable by any one of us. In this lifetime. Thats it!? That is your sole criteria and attribute? That someone else who you think is enlightened says you are enlightened? We clearly are opening a new page in the Attributes of Various Enlighenment book. I have never heard of a tradition, or a spontaneous new-age-advaita group claim such. No attributes of Consciousness knowing Itself, no witnessing sleep, no physiological refinement, no better health, no improved behavior, no spontaneous abilities, etc. Just mutual affirmations by two people desperately seeking enlightenment. Sort of a Mutual Adoration Society of Enlightenment (MASE) With Illusions. Illusionary Mutual Adoration Society of Enlightenment (IMASE) I have to commend you -- to me its both phenomenal and quite ballsy that you claim such a mutual, possibly codependence, pact to be enlightnement. It raises questions. What if someone who you saw was enlightened and who you saw you as enlightened, was later determined not to be enlightened by a group who all saw each other as enlightened. (Stranger things have happend ) What would that do to your enlightenment? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Attributes of Various Enlightenments
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ As I said yesterday: The Self in each of us recognizes the Self in another. We are conscious of this to one degree or another, whether our Self has been fully awakened to us, or not. This is how someone somewhat Awake will recognize another who is fully Awake, and vice versa. There it is in a nutshell. Believe it, call it BS, call it uninspiring, ignore it, do what ever you want with it, or not. And Yes, Enlightenment, Awakening, Self-Realization IS achievable by any one of us. In this lifetime. Thats it!? That is your sole criteria and attribute? That someone else who you think is enlightened says you are enlightened? We clearly are opening a new page in the Attributes of Various Enlighenment book. I have never heard of a tradition, or a spontaneous new-age-advaita group claim such. No attributes of Consciousness knowing Itself, no witnessing sleep, no physiological refinement, no better health, no improved behavior, no spontaneous abilities, etc. Just mutual affirmations by two people desperately seeking enlightenment. Sort of a Mutual Adoration Society of Enlightenment (MASE) With Illusions. Illusionary Mutual Adoration Society of Enlightenment (IMASE) I have to commend you -- to me its both phenomenal and quite ballsy that you claim such a mutual, possibly codependence, pact to be enlightnement. It raises questions. What if someone who you saw was enlightened and who you saw you as enlightened, was later determined not to be enlightened by a group who all saw each other as enlightened. (Stranger things have happend ) What would that do to your enlightenment? With some reflection, I sort of like your approach Jim. It might be termed, Minimilist Enlightenment. ME for short. It reminds me of a popular book of the late 60's I'm OK, You're OK Translated to today: I'm Enlightened, You're Enlightened. We could set up a web site / chat forum / MySpace group etc. called I'm Enlightened, You're Enlightened to facilitate this. One would send out invites to friends or likely looking candidates (a MySpace group would be good for this saying: I think you are Enlightened. Do you think I am Enlightened? If so, wanna join this cool new group of enlightened people? We talk about enlightened things and dwell on on enlightened we all are. Of course some might abuse this by using it as a tool to pick-up women (hmmm, why does Turq's name come to mind ? :) ). Scanning MySpace profiles a rogue might send out notes to attractive women, Hey I really think you are Enlightened. Wanna get together over coffee and talk about it, yoga, union, infinite love, and shiva lingums? And it all could devolve to code like the MIU code she is strong in the knowledge. Guys walking down Santa Monica Blvd on a sunny spring day, wow, get a load of that. She is like 'SO Enlightened'. I'm OK, You're OK was actually a 2x2 matrix, giving rise to four states. I'm OK, You're OK I'm OK, You're Not OK I'm Not OK, You're OK I'm Not OK, You're Not OK Building on that, we could have four different groups: I'm Enlightened, You're Enlightened I'm Enlightened, You're Not Enlightened I'm Not Enlightened, You're Enlightened I'm Not Enlightened, You're Not Enlightened Number two would be a popular group for some. All of this does inspire the thought of another group: I Don't Care About Labels such as Enlightenment, Simply Show Me Some Nice Spiritual Qualities To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Attributes of Various Enlightenments
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: snip I'm OK, You're OK was actually a 2x2 matrix, giving rise to four states. I'm OK, You're OK I'm OK, You're Not OK I'm Not OK, You're OK I'm Not OK, You're Not OK The late Rev. William Sloane Coffin had an additional state representative of the Christian outlook, but possibly adaptable to the enlightenment context: I'm not OK, you're not OK, and that's OK. yes, thats nice. Perhaps a parallel way of saying, I am what I am. You are what you are. Everything is what it is. I accept What Is. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Urdhva-retas?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: What kind of negative or annoying side-effects, if any, are typical when one's trying to keep up brahmacarya? I always had my best experiences during meditation when I went through long periods of celibacy. However, I came to the conclusion that it is NOT compatible in our Western society and, indeed, can be dangerous because around every corner is an advertisement or a TV show or a woman dressed in such a way that it entices your energy to go down. So why torture yourself? I seem to recall one of Krishna's criteria for a true yogii/yoginii is that s/he is jitendri-yaH/-yaa (jita + indriya-). I guess that means that one has to have conquered the indriyas. I think johnson is one of the karmendriyas (karma + indriyas), so if one is not able to spank the monkey, and so on :0 And I have seen Urdhva-retas (sp) mentioned on for accomplished (aka awakened) yogis-- energy always flowing upwards. I suspect that accomplished yogis can keep the energy always flowing upwards while having sex. Something students can't do. Thus the recommendation / stipulation of celibacy for students. The article(s) on Muktananda provided some fuel for speculation in this direction -- that is, yogi sex is not what most people think of as sex. That is, he had sex with a flacid penis. And accomplished tantrics appear to be able to do special, unusual and fantastic things with energy during sex -- which may not involve energy release or downward flow. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Comparing meditation practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An interesting remark by David Orme-Johnson: Over the 40 years that I've been interested in self-development, *I've tried most of the meditation and relaxation techniques that are out there* (emphasis added). In my experience none of them do what Transcendental Meditation does. http://tinyurl.com/foyzs I guess I had always thought of other practices as being strictly off limits to MIU faculty. It makes sense that an investigator would try them out. I wonder how long he did them? One day? One week? Does evaluating TM for a day or week give a comprehensive take on it? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Urdhva-retas?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ I seem to recall one of Krishna's criteria for a true yogii/yoginii is that s/he is jitendri-yaH/-yaa (jita + indriya-). I guess that means that one has to have conquered the indriyas. I think johnson is one of the karmendriyas (karma + indriyas), so if one is not able to spank the monkey, and so on :0 And I have seen Urdhva-retas (sp) mentioned on for accomplished (aka awakened) yogis-- energy always flowing upwards. I suspect that accomplished yogis can keep the energy always flowing upwards while having sex. Something students can't do. Thus the recommendation / stipulation of celibacy for students. The article(s) on Muktananda provided some fuel for speculation in this direction -- that is, yogi sex is not what most people think of as sex. That is, he had sex with a flacid penis. And accomplished tantrics appear to be able to do special, unusual and fantastic things with energy during sex -- which may not involve energy release or downward flow. Could be added to the Rogue Yogi's Book of Pick-up Lines My energy is always flow-upwards. Even sex does not effect this. Care to have me prove it? Later ... (Damn baby, this is the FIRST time the energy has changed directions and went downwards-- and out. Well it must be because you are so beautiful and spiritual.) OR My energy is always flow-upwards. Even sex does not effect its upward flow. You look so spiritual. I bet the same is true for you. Really? (giggle) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Urdhva-retas?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 5/25/06 1:07 PM, new_morning_blank_slate at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I seem to recall one of Krishna's criteria for a true yogii/yoginii is that s/he is jitendri-yaH/-yaa (jita + indriya-). I guess that means that one has to have conquered the indriyas. I think johnson is one of the karmendriyas (karma + indriyas), so if one is not able to spank the monkey, and so on :0 And I have seen Urdhva-retas (sp) mentioned on for accomplished (aka awakened) yogis-- energy always flowing upwards. I suspect that accomplished yogis can keep the energy always flowing upwards while having sex. Something students can't do. Thus the recommendation / stipulation of celibacy for students. The article(s) on Muktananda provided some fuel for speculation in this direction -- that is, yogi sex is not what most people think of as sex. That is, he had sex with a flacid penis. But another well-known guru allegedly didn't, and also allegedly ejaculated. Can you ejaculate and yet have the energy always flowing upwards? I honestly don't know. Just asking. Well, if you don't KNOW, you clearly aren't enlightened. :) Lets ask Jim and Dr. Pete their personal experience. :) I think its possible (at least partially) to separate ejaculation and orgasm. And orgasm can be directed and internalized. I am quite open to the possibility, indeed pretty sure, that accomplished yogis and tantrics can do amazing things with energy flows, marmas, chakras, pranas, etc. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Comparing meditation practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: An interesting remark by David Orme-Johnson: Over the 40 years that I've been interested in self-development, *I've tried most of the meditation and relaxation techniques that are out there* (emphasis added). In my experience none of them do what Transcendental Meditation does. http://tinyurl.com/foyzs I guess I had always thought of other practices as being strictly off limits to MIU faculty. It makes sense that an investigator would try them out. I wonder how long he did them? One day? One week? Does evaluating TM for a day or week give a comprehensive take on it? How long has he been with TM? If for less than 40 years, maybe he tried them before starting TM? He was at MIU SB mid 73. He had come (perhaps not directly) from Ft. Bliss (for real) in TX doing some TM related studies. So I would guess he was practicing TM at least back to 1970 or so. So 36 years. So you have a point. Interest started 40 years ago. 1966. Low probabilty that he started TM with the LA SIMS or SRM or other fringe crowds in 1966. So he may have had several years of seeking, trying other techniques. But what was (readily) available then was a small slice of what is avalable now. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Comparing meditation practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: Does evaluating TM for a day or week give a comprehensive take on it? I would say yes, compared to the other techniques I've tried. TM worked instantly and left me in no doubt it was a bit special. Am I an isolated case though? I liked it emensely right away also. But I don't think I had a comprehensive view of it in my first week. (I was still trying to wipe that huge grin off my face.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Urdhva-retas? Yogi sex, yeah right
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Muktananda had sex with underage daughters of close disciples in secret with a heavy amount of intimidation before and afterwards. Clearly you are not suggesting that he exclusively had sex with the above. The young ladies generally report having been freaked out. This is not yogi sex -- it's manipulative immature sex. I am not defending the guy but, he had manipulative immature sex AND at different times had what might be characerized as, or suggestive of, yogi sex. Two different things. With your comments and change of subject/title, you may incorrectly leave the casual reader with the impression that: 1) all yogi sex is manipulative immature sex and/or 2) yogi sex doesn't exist, is just a cover for sexual and often perverted sexual gratification. My point is, while any number of abuses may have occurred in lots of ashrams, thats an issue in and of itself. That in no way diminishes the possibility of yogi sex, totally separate from abuses eslewhere by others, in which the primary purpose is energy transformation. Muktananda was probably a bad example of yogi sex. IMO, both Hubbard and Muktananda were needing to suck in subtle energy from the outside to maintain whatever powers they had and were losing due to physical/mental deterioration. In a comprehensive, if not definitive biography of Gandhi, its said that in his later years, he would regularly sleep with two young virgins, one on each side, in reverse direction (their head at his feet, and vice versa) -- no sex involved. This was some yogi energy rejuvination method that Gandhi found quite effective. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Urdhva-retas? Yogi sex, yeah right
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they were having sex with underage women, they should have been sucking in the subtle energy of a state prison. Sal Of course underage is relative, in a legal sense. per web search, age of consent is 12 in Mexico, 13 in Spain, 14 in Germany and Iowa, 16 in India and Conneticut (Rick and Pete, you are safe from those late teenage adventures), 18 in California. And in some homes never. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eating animals seems to have really bad karma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I occasionally eat meat myself, so I am not innocent by any means. But in light of what we know about: 1) bird flu -- that it comes from poultry livestock which are raised for eating; 2) AIDS: from this article -- that AIDS developed from wild chimps and that it was probably during the process of butchering a chip for food consumption; 3) Many other diseases that come from raising cattle livestock and transferred to humans -- I read where the reason that so many aboriginal peoples died from the European invasion (it was in the 10s of millions) A 100 million or more, acording to the sytnthesis of acadameic research Charles Mann pulled together in the book 1491. From the published research from many disciplines, he paints the picture of pre-columbian americas that were more populous, at an equivalent or higher cultural, ploitical and agricultural state, had better cities, large tradenet works spanning 1000s of miles etc. The no livestock non-resistance evidence is apparently strong and growing. Once columbus and others landed diseases such as chicken pox raced to population centers far faster than the explorers did on land. So large population centers were wiped out with no direct European contact. There are many reports of early Europeans finding inland ghost villages after establishing settlements on the coast some years earlier. After 50-100 or so years, many signs of the large native population centers had vanished -- and were absorbed and further covered by european settlement. And the book has fascinating details about Squanto of pilgrim days. He lived in England PRIOR to his days with the pilgrims. The victim of a French trader's kidnapping. was that North and South American aboriginal peoples never kept domesticated chicken or cattle and, as such, never built up a resistance to the transferred diseases the way Europeans did and the way other peoples in other continents that th Europeans did. Well, maybe we can conclude that carnivorism does have some very direct karmic effects! --- HIV's Ancestry Traced to Wild Chimps May 25 2:02 PM US/Eastern Email this story By LAURAN NEERGAARD AP Medical Writer WASHINGTON Twenty-five years after the first AIDS cases emerged, scientists have confirmed that the HIV virus plaguing humans really did originate in wild chimpanzees, in a corner of Cameroon. Solving the mystery of HIV's ancestry was dirty work. Scientists employed trackers to plunge through dense jungle and collect the fresh feces of wild apes _ more than 1,300 samples in all. Before that, it took seven years of research just to develop the testing methods to genetically trace the primate version of the virus in living wild chimps without hurting the endangered species. Until now, no one was able to look. No one had the tools, said Dr. Beatrice Hahn of the University of Alabama at Birmingham. She led the team of international researchers that reported the success in Friday's edition of the journal Science. We're 25 years into this pandemic, Hahn said. We don't have a cure. We don't have a vaccine. But we know where it came from. At least we can make a check mark on one of those. Scientists long have known that nonhuman primates carry their own version of the AIDS virus, called SIV or simian immunodeficiency virus. But with one exception, it had been found only in captive chimpanzees, particularly a subspecies that in the wild populates mostly West Africa. It was not known how prevalent the virus was in chimps in the wild, or how genetically or geographically diverse it was, complicating efforts to pin down the jump from animal to man. Hahn's team tested chimp feces for SIV antibodies, finding them in a subspecies called Pan troglodytes troglodytes in southern Cameroon. Chimps tend to form geographically distinct communities. By genetically analyzing the feces, researchers could trace individual infected chimps. The team found some chimp communities with infection rates as high as 35 percent, while others had no infection at all. Every single infected chimp had a common base genetic pattern that indicated a common ancestor, Hahn said. There are three types of HIV-1, the strain of the human virus responsible for most of the worldwide epidemic. Genetic analysis let Hahn identify chimp communities near Cameroon's Sanaga River whose viral strains are most closely related to the most common of those HIV-1 subtypes. The genetic similarity was striking, Hahn said. The first human known to be infected with HIV was a man from Kinshasa in the nearby country of Congo who had his blood stored in 1959 as part of a medical study, decades before scientists knew the AIDS virus existed. Presumably, someone in rural Cameroon was bitten by a chimp or was
[FairfieldLife] Re: CC
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [...] 4) Strong physiological corrleates, such as brain wave coherence Yes, correlates that are created by a mind sitting in That. Not brain functiuoning producing That. How could you know? Self-evident. Virtually every persron tested insists that using command line commands is faster than mousing in ALL cases, but in fact, objective testing reveals that they are wrong in virtually every case involving screens that are less than 19 inches. Humans aren't a very good judge of their own internal state. How many in the mid 70s or so felt that the TMO was the most important spiritual movement in centuries, MMY was the greatest teacher, TM was the highest technique -- and all of this was self-evident? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Comparing meditation practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip Of course, this is the same guy who was attempting a bit of the old in-out in-out with females not his wife, so who knows? And your reason for assuming that the rumor is true is...? When he saw the rumor that he was running around with other women being discussed here, Orme-Johnson confirmed that he had once made a pass at a kitchen worker (I believe it was) on a course. Wasn't that a heavy duty unstressing thing? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Comparing meditation practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip Of course, this is the same guy who was attempting a bit of the old in-out in-out with females not his wife, so who knows? And your reason for assuming that the rumor is true is...? When he saw the rumor that he was running around with other women being discussed here, Orme-Johnson confirmed that he had once made a pass at a kitchen worker (I believe it was) on a course. Wasn't that a heavy duty unstressing thing? Heavy duty unstressing was a phenomenon of long meditation , particualrly pre-rounding (asanas,pranayam, tm). Further lessened with walk and talks, buddy systems, better food, etc. Real, heavy duty unstressing is not usually a field phenomenon for people doing regular program. Was DOJ transported from the middle of a 6 month long rounding course to this kitchen? Was he even rounding on this FL course? While real, heavy duty unstressing is not usually a field phenomenon for people doing regular program, IT CAN be used as an excuse. MMY was once asked if the recent rude behavior of someone was unstressing. He said no, just bad manners To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Comparing meditation practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 5/25/06 1:11 PM, Patrick Gillam at jpgillam@ wrote: An interesting remark by David Orme-Johnson: Over the 40 years that I've been interested in self-development, *I've tried most of the meditation and relaxation techniques that are out there* (emphasis added). In my experience none of them do what Transcendental Meditation does. http://tinyurl.com/foyzs I guess I had always thought of other practices as being strictly off limits to MIU faculty. It makes sense that an investigator would try them out. I don't believe him. I think he's lying to sound objective. At the very least, something sounds very fishy about it. Of course, this is the same guy who was attempting a bit of the old in-out in-out with females not his wife, so who knows? And your reason for assuming that the rumor is true is...? ...that he wrote Rick Archer (who reproduced it here on this forum) admitting as much... What was the message number? What am I, a search engine? There's almost 100,000 posts on this forum, Spare Egg. Hopefully, Rick can enlighten us on this... Making a pass at someone on a course, and copping to it, is hardly a dishonest activity, and not the same as multiple attempts. If THAT was what you were referring to, it's kinda silly to imply that he's a dishonest person because he already admitted to the singular action. Any proof there were not multiple attempts? He was only busted once. Big difference. My observations on TM guys who inappropriately hit on woman,particularly on courses, was they were chronic in the obnoxiousness of theirnd rude pursuits. Inappropriate is a relative term. In 100 hits, 10 women might enjoy the attention. In talking to a number of movement women, most overt hitting-on was seen as boorish, unwanted, and out of place in the context. For every great SIMS / ATR course conquest story that some relish in repeated ego-bolstering, there are, IME, 10 or more untold stories of women going back to their rooms,alone, puking at the gross ass who just hit on them in stupid ways on a course. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Comparing meditation practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip Of course, this is the same guy who was attempting a bit of the old in-out in-out with females not his wife, so who knows? And your reason for assuming that the rumor is true is...? When he saw the rumor that he was running around with other women being discussed here, Orme-Johnson confirmed that he had once made a pass at a kitchen worker (I believe it was) on a course. Wasn't that a heavy duty unstressing thing? No, apparently it was an unwanted pass at an underling employee. It's called sexual harrassment. Not mutually exclusive, of course. O-J said it was unstressing. He also said unstressing was no excuse. It probably is an excuse, a phony one, if you are not in heavy long term rounding. And are a 30 year meditator. And have been full time in the movement for 25 years and know the signs of real heavy unstressing. Was his neck snapping violetly from side to side when he hit on her? :) (HAHAHA, THATS a funny image.!) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No yellow stars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 5/25/06 10:10:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree; we are a culture that is quite addicted to violence and dysfunctional behavior... It's not just the government, but the whole culture: Look at what passes for entertainment- it's getting more and more over the top.. I worry about the kids growing up in this pollution. Their attitudes toward sex; their attitude toward humanity; Their level of compassion. We've seen the enemy and it is us. We, as a nation, weren't always like that. I started life at a time when people could leave their houses unlocked, I still do. Have in my last three homes. What?! Texas is not such a paradise? neighbors actually knew each other and helped each other, still very much well and alive in many areas. Sorry to hear its not in Texas. teen pregnancy rare, out of wedlock birth even rarer, In the 60's we had 2-3 in my class. Girls usually left school. Shame, lots of whispering and crude jokes about the girl. Today, girls go to school, proud to be (becoming) mothers, taking pre-natal classes. Seems much healthier today. fathers took care of their families, Still do. Any fathers here NOT take care of their families? mothers didn't need to work outside the home, My mom didn't NEED to work, but when I was about 12, she wanted to. She said she didn't want to JUST play tennis and lunch. She started her own business in the early 60's. It grew to 400 employees and recognized as a leader in its field. I was / am way proud of my mom. Great inspsiration and role model. I prefered her working over stay-at-home moms who - at least some -- seemed to be going bored, obessive about kids, and lives focussed on the trivial. taxes were low, HAHAHAHAHA. Where have you been??? Marginal tax rates were up to 70%. Today they are 32%. and overall crime rates were low. On a personal level, I don't see much of a change. In some ways scarier then. Brainless greasers cruising in over-charged cars. Overt racism (in northern california). Strong gender bias. Smoking everywhere -- theatres, church, classrooms (college), etc. I'm not saying life was perfect then and we were without faults but things sure have changed since then. Yes. We now have the internet, Ipods, DVDs, HI Def color TV and big screens (compared to low res BW of my youth), cars that pollute 97% less (still a ways to go), cleaner air, claner water, greater equality among races, creeds and gender, many spiritual paths readily available and acceptable, and inflation adjusted percapita income 4-6x what it was then, viagra, lipitor, and many wonder drugs, curable cancers, health food stores everywhere, rising collective consciousness (:)), etc. Wow, I fail to grok your POV. All I can say is that the music 66-71 was better than now. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No yellow stars
In a message dated 5/25/06 10:10:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Look at what passes for entertainment- it's getting more and more over the top.. I worry about the kids growing up in this pollution. Their attitudes toward sex; their attitude toward humanity; Their level of compassion. We've seen the enemy and it is us. Look at the entertainment we had growing up. Lots of gratuitous violence in westerns and cop shows, and for the most part -- quite shallow scripts, overt racism and gender bias on TV, AND 3 F**king BW low res channels.. Today, there is far more choice, a number of really well written and acted shows, with thought provoking themes. I'd much rather have kids navigating this environment than the TV wasteland of the 60's. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Comparing meditation practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Wasn't that a heavy duty unstressing thing? No, apparently it was an unwanted pass at an underling employee. It's called sexual harrassment. Not mutually exclusive, of course. O-J said it was unstressing. He also said unstressing was no excuse. It probably is an excuse, a phony one, if you are not in heavy long term rounding. Maybe I didn't make myself clear, or maybe you didn't read what he wrote. He said it was *not* an excuse, i.e., he was not excusing the bad behavior on the grounds that he was unstressing. There's a difference between an excuse and an explanation. If you want to claim it was a phony explanation, fine. But phony or not, he was not using the explanation as an excuse. OK. Point taken. I revise my statement. I think it was a phony explanation. Again, was his neck snapping violently from side to side when he hit on her? (That image STILL cracks me up.) And again, in my observations, gross and obnoxious hitting on women on courses -- or in centers, was a CHRONIC behavioir of those so inclined. It was not a one time event for all I saw. >From a different, but related angle, is DOJ making the case that after being exposed to many gorgeous, vivacious movement women over 25 years, and watching Domash and others score wildly for years, he finally, after 25 years decided to make his first, only and last inappropriate pass? Doesn't pass the smell test. Doesn't fit the hitter profile in my observations. Nor the grapevine. I had heard stories about DOJ hitting on woman before. Maybe false rumor -- who knows -- but where there is smoke, probabilisticaly speaking there is usually fire. It ties to his statement about trying and evaluating most meditation methods. Just doesn't ring true to me -- having seen and heard him a lot in the 70's aropund MIU. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Comparing meditation practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Wasn't that a heavy duty unstressing thing? No, apparently it was an unwanted pass at an underling employee. It's called sexual harrassment. Not mutually exclusive, of course. O-J said it was unstressing. He also said unstressing was no excuse. It probably is an excuse, a phony one, if you are not in heavy long term rounding. Maybe I didn't make myself clear, or maybe you didn't read what he wrote. He said it was *not* an excuse, i.e., he was not excusing the bad behavior on the grounds that he was unstressing. There's a difference between an excuse and an explanation. If you want to claim it was a phony explanation, fine. But phony or not, he was not using the explanation as an excuse. While I get your point, I would argue that in this case, excuse and explanation overlap a bit. Why did he bring unstressing up? Was he implying that he was unstressing, but still had 100% control of his actions and takes 100% responsibility for them? If so, why mention unstressing.Its irrelevant if one is claiming the above. The purpose in mentioning unstressing, IMO, is to garner sympathy, and to implicitly make the case that he did not have 100% control of his actions and thus cannot take 100% responsibility for them. To me he is weaving the implicit arguement that, I was unstressing. I only had PARTIAL control of my actions and thus can only takes partial responsibility for them. Unstessing IS a reality. Have pity on me. I am a VICTIM of unstressing. But the deeper reason I think its a phony explanation, as stated in an adjacent post, heavy unstressing is most usually a phenomenon of heavy rounding. He was not heavily rounding as far as I can see. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] I Was Not Naked Parsing? Redux I did not break any US drug laws?
DOJ said and I was not naked. [when I made made the pass. aka rudely and inappropriately hit on the woman (whom he employed? -- was he running the course?] We all have become jaded and wise to parsed statements. If not in college, if not in crafting TMO press releases, if not in writing post-TMO resumes, if not thru watergate, then certainly we got a bit more streetwise after clinton. When asked about drug use in his college years, Bill said, I did not break any US drug laws. Of course the question had to do with drug use in Oxford (UK) and thus his response sounds ok to the casual reader /listener, but is a joke of evasion for anyone tuned in. DOJ said and I was not naked. [when inappropriately hitting on the woman]. OK. But David didn't just fall off the turnip truck. He spent decades crafting precise language about TM to enhance the appearance of legitamacy, normaliacy and effectiveness, while down playing, if not avoiding any light to shine, on less publically appealing aspects of TM. So when he makes a parsed statement like and I was not naked it raises questions. OK, you were not naked. What other possible statements are consistent with this but not ones he would wish to disclose explicitly: I was just in boxers shorts and my wing wang was hanging out the slit in the front. I just had a t-shirt on. I was still wearing soxs Perhaps, and I was not naked was just a simply phrased, innocent, recollection of his account of what happened. But along with his, IMO, phony unstressing explanation, and the implicit, This was the FIRST and ONLY time I EVER did this, it just makes the whole package of accounts and explanations continue to stink up the place a bit. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No yellow stars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 5/26/06 9:36:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I still do. Have in my last three homes. What?! Texas is not such a paradise? neighbors actually knew each other and helped each other, still very much well and alive in many areas. Sorry to hear its not in Texas. Ooooh, do I detect regional bigotry here? Not at all. I have noted with pleasure and anticipation of your comments how wonderful Texas is, particularly Austin. I have only been to Texas 3-4 times on short business trips. People seemed nice. weather sucked some. But based on your comments, I have put Austin on my list of possible cities to visit or even live (for a while.) Thus I was surprised and saddened to hear of its problems -- problems I don't generally find in places I have lived. And, in fun, I was pulling your chain a bit to see if you would react. Mission accomplished. haha. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] 60's TV Stereotyping
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
no_reply@ wrote:
In a message dated 5/25/06 10:10:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
babajii_99@ writes:
Look at what passes for entertainment- it's getting more and
more
over the top..
I worry about the kids growing up in this pollution.
Their attitudes toward sex; their attitude toward humanity;
Their level of compassion.
We've seen the enemy and it is us.
Look at the entertainment we had growing up. Lots of gratuitous
violence in westerns and cop shows, and for the most part -- quite
shallow scripts, overt racism
overt racism on TV?
Even in the '50s?
Although I may have been born too late ('55) or they never showed it
in reruns, I never remember seeing overt racism on TV.
r
Can you give us some examples?
My wording was too sharp. Stereotyping is more what I had in mind,
which might be cast as often unintnentional but implicit racism.
And much gender stereo-typing in limited domains.
But the line is fuzzier when one includes a lot of films from 30s and
40s shown on TV in 50's and 60s. Stronger stereotyping in some roles
(dumb maids, no counter balancing roles, etc) may have been more overt
racism.
I was not referring to Amos and Andy -- which in my memory was a
sweet, funny, human slice of life -- not racist or demeaning in my
memory. But I have not looked at it again with adult and modern eyes.
and gender bias on TV, AND 3 F**king BW
low res channels..
Today, there is far more choice, a number of really well written
and
acted shows, with thought provoking themes. I'd much rather have
kids
navigating this environment than the TV wasteland of the 60's.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: No yellow stars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 5/26/06 11:17:24 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ooooh, do I detect regional bigotry here? Not at all. I have noted with pleasure and anticipation of your comments how wonderful Texas is, particularly Austin. I have only been to Texas 3-4 times on short business trips. People seemed nice. weather sucked some. But based on your comments, I have put Austin on my list of possible cities to visit or even live (for a while.) Thus I was surprised and saddened to hear of its problems -- problems I don't generally find in places I have lived. And, in fun, I was pulling your chain a bit to see if you would react. Mission accomplished. haha. :) Sorry, I don't live in Austin and I don't recall ever posting anything about how wonderful Texas is Um, in some Tom Pall posts on how great texas/austin were, I clearly remember you chimming in. Maybe I blurred Tom's great enthusiasm for Austin for your oveall endorsement for Texas. although I wouldn't want to live any other place. OK. So I made the point that you liked texas and you confirmed it. I don't see an point of disagreement. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 60's TV Stereotyping
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate
no_reply@ wrote:
In a message dated 5/25/06 10:10:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
babajii_99@ writes:
Look at what passes for entertainment- it's getting more and
more
over the top..
I worry about the kids growing up in this pollution.
Their attitudes toward sex; their attitude toward humanity;
Their level of compassion.
We've seen the enemy and it is us.
Look at the entertainment we had growing up. Lots of gratuitous
violence in westerns and cop shows, and for the most part -- quite
shallow scripts, overt racism
overt racism on TV?
Even in the '50s?
Although I may have been born too late ('55) or they never showed it
in reruns, I never remember seeing overt racism on TV.
r
Can you give us some examples?
My wording was too sharp. Stereotyping is more what I had in mind,
which might be cast as often unintnentional but implicit racism.
And much gender stereo-typing in limited domains.
I was thinking of the portrayal of Native Americans, and to some
extent Mexicans, when thinking of overt racism.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Comparing meditation practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: While I get your point, I would argue that in this case, excuse and explanation overlap a bit. Sure, an explanation can be used as an excuse. Why did he bring unstressing up? Was he implying that he was unstressing, but still had 100% control of his actions and takes 100% responsibility for them? Well, that gets into the whole issue of the nature of free will. I don't think this case needs to be that complicated. Let's say for the sake of argument that he could have chosen to restrain himself. Perhaps he's saying it was more difficult to make that choice because of the unstressing, but he still could have made it if he had exerted the extra effort, and he takes responsibility for not having made it. OK. Food for thought. The purpose in mentioning unstressing, IMO, is to garner sympathy, and to implicitly make the case that he did not have 100% control of his actions and thus cannot take 100% responsibility for them. To me he is weaving the implicit arguement that, I was unstressing. I only had PARTIAL control of my actions and thus can only takes partial responsibility for them. Unstessing IS a reality. Have pity on me. I am a VICTIM of unstressing. Sure. But you can take responsibility for allowing yourself to be a victim of unstressing, in the sense of not making the extra effort to restrain yourself from doing something bad and stupid and then having to take the consequences. OK. But if one is allowing yourself to be a victim of unstressing, we are into excuse land IMO. But the deeper reason I think its a phony explanation, as stated in an adjacent post, heavy unstressing is most usually a phenomenon heavy rounding. He was not heavily rounding as far as I can see. Oh, for pete's sake, unstressing can happen at any time, whether you're rounding or not. It's more likely to happen during heavy rounding, but any given meditation session, during rounding or not, can wake up an elephant. Which is a nice segue to make an important point. There are many levels of unstressing. Sure some low level unstressing goes on in the field, in daily life.,TM 2x. But my implicit point, now being made explicitly, is that low-level unstressing is not debilitating, it is a nussance, but not a thing (all but thereally unstable) can't easily deal with. Its like a small headache. Or one beer. One can maintain to use stoner lingo. One still has full control of their rational faculties. Know right from wrong, knowing one is inappropriately hitting on someone (an employee?) is not diminished. Diminshied capacity is not credible plea. Using the analogy you cited, huge deep seated elephants DON'T suddenly riseup and start charging full speed IN DAY TO DAY tm/2x routine, in the field. They slowly wake up, maybe crap a little here and there day by day, but its gradual and low level. Especially with asanas, pranayam, siddhis (especially flying -- which IME eats up unstressing),feeling body, ayur-ved med, ayur-ved self- oil massage, ayur-ved treatments, yagyas, listening to ved, etc. AND after 30 years, the wild-ass crazy surface elephants that can be awakened in TM 2x/day have all been zapped. I emphasized heavy unstressing which is pretty much limited to heavy rounding courses. In heavy unstressing, in some extreme cases, one might be able to make a reasonable case for diminished capacity, not fully recognizing right from wrong, the mind and intellect not having full control of actions, etc. Basically the temporaty insanity defense. My point, DOJ was not in heavy rounding, he was not heavily unstressing, he cannot plead diminished capacity. At worst (best?) he was experiencing low level unstressing. Of anyone (PHD in psych, 25 years in TMO, lots of time around MMY, well versed in TM research) he knew the symptoms well, and knew how to deal with them. I hold no particular brief for O-J; he may be a thoroughgoing cad for all I know. But the issue of taking responsibility is interesting in the abstract. Yes, its an interesting issue IMO. Thats why it caught my attention. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I Was Not Naked Parsing? Redux I did not break any US drug laws?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really well expressed. Really hit the mark. Thanks. And btw, I really like Bill Clinton. (And I like DOJ as a person and teacher). But I have learned not to right away trust anything that comes out of Bill's mouth. I let it fall to the ground, kick the tires, check its underbelly, poke it a few times to see if it rears up, snarls, and tries to bite. I check to see if it has all its teeth, and if they are straight. And I smell the critter to see if it reeks. If after sometime, I find the critter has some likable qualities, and is not prone to trickery or treachery, I let it into the screened front porch area. Only after a long probation do I let it into the house. And I think Bill would laugh heartily at that description and sentiment. I think he was one of our smarter presidents. With a flexible and fluid mind -- that is willing to change it with new evidence, logic, or insight. Not tied to some dogma in a non-thinking swamp state of mind as some presidents have been. But he had major flaws. Too bad he used part of his talents and attention in unseemly ways (of which I really don't need a recounting --I am aware of them.) In that, he really let the country down, IMO. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Comparing meditation practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: snip Of course, this is the same guy who was attempting a bit of the old in-out in-out with females not his wife, so who knows? And your reason for assuming that the rumor is true is...? When he saw the rumor that he was running around with other women being discussed here, Orme-Johnson confirmed that he had once made a pass at a kitchen worker (I believe it was) on a course. Wasn't that a heavy duty unstressing thing? No, apparently it was an unwanted pass at an underling employee. It's called sexual harrassment. Not mutually exclusive, of course. O-J said it was unstressing. He also said unstressing was no excuse. It probably is an excuse, a phony one, if you are not in heavy long term rounding. And are a 30 year meditator. And have been full time in the movement for 25 years and know the signs of real heavy unstressing. Was his neck snapping violetly from side to side when he hit on her? :) (HAHAHA, THATS a funny image.!) Bah. Now you're able to judge the validity of someone's unstressing? Um, the image is a bit of a joke. When someones sense of humor shuts down, is that unstressing? Who said anything about judging the validity of judge someone's unstressing? My point, see adjacent post responding to judy, is that TM/2x may cause low level unstressing. Thats valid. Its not something that severly diminishes capacity. I am not usre how much long meditation (done prior to the advent of rounding or long rounding you have done, or courses of such you have conducted. Its my experience and obsevation that really heavy unstressing, the type that can result in real diminished capacticy, amongst stable peopele happens almost only on long rounding -- and then is pretty rare as a percentage of all rounders. What about someone who ends up screaming or crying DURING meditation for no apparent reason? Is that unstressing? What about someone who has always had a rep of being a mild-mannered person, who suddenly starts taking a swing at another mild-mannered person? Is THAT unstressing? Um, dunno. Are these hypotheticals or real events. I would not jump to the conclusion that either are unstressing. Certainly not diminished capacity unstressing. Lots of rudeness, stupidity, bad behavior and ego tripping occur everyday all over the world which have nothing to do with TM. I have seen lots of people who ends up screaming or crying DURING meditation for no apparent reason -- and then go on to giggle a few min later. That is in pre-no noise siddhi days. I have seen someone who has always had a rep of being a mild-mannered person, who suddenly starts taking a swing at another mild-mannered person and it has nothing to do with TM. Lots of factors can trigger crap like that. Try eating pankoors at a bad dive of a take-out indian restaurant fried in old rancid oil and see how that effects you. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Comparing meditation practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: [...] Nor the grapevine. I had heard stories about DOJ hitting on woman before. Maybe false rumor -- who knows -- but where there is smoke, probabilisticaly speaking there is usually fire. I had a bad reputation in the SCA because I used to bill myself as the apprentice of the most imfamous lecher in the local barony. We even looked somewhat alike. Since I didn't lose my virginity til after I left the SCA, and most people were aware that I was a virgin while I was in, everyone just laughed at the joke. When I came back from the USAF, I looked almost exactly like the guy (25 extra pounds) and everyone assumed that I was serious when I made the same joke. Women absolutely hated me because of my womanizing ways and all that. For the record, I never dated a single woman in the SCA, EVER, so how they ever concluded I deserved my rep is beyond me. OK. I agree that where there is smoke, there is not ALWAYs fire. But there is a high probability that there is. It ties to his statement about trying and evaluating most meditation methods. Just doesn't ring true to me -- having seen and heard him a lot in the 70's aropund MIU. 40 years ago was 1966. MIU started in 1972. That's 8 years of experimenting, eh? Well, tm has done wonders for your math skills. (1972-1966= 6). I have done the same math as you (though more accurately :) ).Maybe you missed the post. Ft Bliss and all. But you are missing the point. If DOJ did most meditation techniques from 1966-1970 -- four years, 1) that is only a small slice of what is available today and his comments were referencing those available today. 2) IMO, if he was heavily into other medititions 66-70, then he would have mentioned that, made reference to that, cited them, discussed them, formally and informally at MIU in 73-75 when theings were free and open. He made videos for two detailed psych /SCI courses that I sat in on. Lots of side discussions occurred. If he had extensive experience of other techniques, it was a ripe environment to bring them up. Never a peep as far as I recall. Doesn't prove he wasn't a med junkie 66-70 but to me is indicative that he was not. 3) Assume 10 prominent techniques avalable 66-70. Best case, thats less than 5 months per technique. More likely 2-3 at best. Not a comprehensive evaluation, IMO. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Comparing meditation practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate 40 years ago was 1966. MIU started in 1972. That's 8 years of experimenting, eh? Well, tm has done wonders for your math skills. (1972-1966= 6). I have done the same math as you (though more accurately :) ).Maybe you missed the post. Ft Bliss and all. But you are missing the point. If DOJ did most meditation techniques from 1966-1970 -- four years, 1) that is only a small slice of what is available today and his comments were referencing those available today. 2) IMO, if he was heavily into other medititions 66-70, then he would have mentioned that, made reference to that, cited them, discussed them, formally and informally at MIU in 73-75 when theings were free and open. He made videos for two detailed psych /SCI courses that I sat in on. Lots of side discussions occurred. If he had extensive experience of other techniques, it was a ripe environment to bring them up. Never a peep as far as I recall. Doesn't prove he wasn't a med junkie 66-70 but to me is indicative that he was not. 3) Assume 10 prominent techniques avalable 66-70. Best case, thats less than 5 months per technique. More likely 2-3 at best. Not a comprehensive evaluation, IMO. But this is all mere speculation. Which has severe limits. Which I think we all past a while ago. So if this is a matter of great value and interest (perhaps quite a hard case to make) why not contact him and ask him to detail out his extensive experience and evaluation of most all other meditation techniques available today. $10 says its not a very comprehensive or impressive spiritual resume. What does your $10 say? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Seva Betting to Reveal the Truth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate $10 says its not a very comprehensive or impressive spiritual resume. What does your $10 say? And $10 says DOJ was not fully clothed with all body parts apprpriately placed, and thus And I was not naked was a parsed evasion of something. And $10 says DOJ's pass [such a quaint word for inappropriate and rude hitting on women] was not his first pass on TMO women. Betting on FFL? OMG! But it raises some interesting points uncovered in research on betting forums (lots prevail on internet these days and while sports focussed, they do make book on many political, film, music, TV and pop-cultural events). Betting forums are better predictors than polls. People have no vested interest in polls and thus don't work hard or dig deep to come up with their response. In betting, people do. So it would be interesting to supplant opinions with bets on the many critical issues [smirk] FFL's daily speculate and opine upon. Thus, betting could sharpen up the truth and reality quotient of claims made and opinions presented on FFL. And proceeds could be donated to some good seva cause(s). Just an idea. Any bets on if it will happen? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 60's TV Stereotyping
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 5/26/06 11:53:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was thinking of the portrayal of Native Americans, and to some extent Mexicans, when thinking of overt racism. Ah yes , Poncho and Cisco and Tonto. Exactly Kimosabe. And lot of westerns with really depraved views of Indians. (Though when some shots showed them wearing tennis shoes, how serious could you take it.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Conservative Clinton, Liberal Nixon
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like Clinton alot too. ... I like him because he presided over the most conservative agenda of any president in the 20th century, including Ronald Reagan. So you should love his intellectual and policy legacy, Mr Al Gore!!! And Nixon was a great liberal, a radical liberal in some regards: Price controls to control inflation (so radically far left, no one on the left even dares suggest it today.) Abolished the gold standard (the core of conservative economics for two + centures) Establishing the Environmental Protection Agancy Created the Consumer Product Safety Commission Ending American fighting in Viet Nam Established and extended revenue sharing to the states Ended the draft Opened up China Treaty to limit strategic nuclear weapons Created Detente with USSR Negotiated disengagement agreements between Israel and its opponents, Egypt and Syria Almost endorsed full national decriminalization of marijuana (watergate got in the way). I don't think any domcratic president has come close to accomplishing -- much less proposing -- the breadth and depth of such wide ranging liberal agenda. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 60's TV Stereotyping
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 5/26/06 1:37:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've often found the opposite from that era. Yes, minorities would play maids but they were far from dumb. Often they would be the wise-cracking character who knew and expressed the truth about a situation. As I recall the maids and servants usually put the boss in their place. who specifically? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Seva Betting to Reveal the Truth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate $10 says its not a very comprehensive or impressive spiritual resume. What does your $10 say? And $10 says DOJ was not fully clothed with all body parts apprpriately placed, and thus And I was not naked was a parsed evasion of something. Will you people give it a fuckin' BREAK already? I mean, this is just embarrassing. Do you not have LIVES? The little old ladies in my village don't gossip as much as you do. Like you never did anything stupid in your lives... Yeah. I agree. But please tell us about another one of your great conquests of SIMS girls Uncle Turq! Please! Please!! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Seva Betting to Reveal the Truth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The little old ladies in my village don't gossip as much as you do. And now you have nothing better to do than rag on nice little old french ladies!? Mon Dieu. Why, are they gossiping about your latest fuck-up in town? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Conservative Clinton, Liberal Nixon
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: about the non-existent global warming due to fossil-fuels (of which there is ZERO evidence). Apparently zero evidence that you have seen digested, or understood. Even Michael Crichton would not make a statement as radical or uninformed as that. How much fossil fuels contibute to weather effects is a debate, though the range of disagreement is shrinking (along with the ozone layer,haha). As is exactly in which ways CO2 effects weather effects (cooling here, warming there) However that i) fossil fuels create C02, ii) fossil fuels consumption and exhaust has been increased enormously in the past 150 years, and iii) CO2 in the atmosphere, whether natural (volcanos, cow farts, termite effects in rainforest) or fossil fuel based, all create and change the weather --- is pretty indisputable at his point. Even to the Bush White House. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 60's TV Stereotyping
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: In a message dated 5/26/06 1:37:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, shempmcgurk@ writes: I've often found the opposite from that era. Yes, minorities would play maids but they were far from dumb. Often they would be the wise-cracking character who knew and expressed the truth about a situation. As I recall the maids and servants usually put the boss in their place. who specifically? Rochester always seemed to have Jack Benny's number... Good one. Though no one would have referred to Rochester as a rocket scientist. And clearly not all blacks are literally rocket scientists. Or whites. The troublesome issue is that in the 50's and 60's blacks roles were almost only servant or bumbling, though perhaps quick tongued, helper roles. Neither a true reflection of society even then -- a quite aparatheid america. And wasn't the inside joke that made Rochester funny (and he was) -- sort of becasue even the dumb black lowly negro servant is dissing Jack. Poor Jack. Jack's travails in the world were what was funny in the show, and various dis's of Jack were part of that. The greater contrast -- or lower the dis -- the funnier. In that day, what was lower or more insulting than being insulted by a (in the role) uneducated, negro servant. Rochester was never portrayed or intended to be Jack's equal. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Seva Betting to Reveal the Truth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate $10 says its not a very comprehensive or impressive spiritual resume. What does your $10 say? And $10 says DOJ was not fully clothed with all body parts apprpriately placed, and thus And I was not naked was a parsed evasion of something. Will you people give it a fuckin' BREAK already? I mean, this is just embarrassing. Do you not have LIVES? The little old ladies in my village don't gossip as much as you do. Like you never did anything stupid in your lives... That you have entirely missed the main themes of this thread are a bit embarrassing -- but not that surprising. You have never struck me as a particularly careful reader. What interested me, and Judy I think expressed the same, is the structure and dyanmics of explanations / excuses and IMO cover-ups. DOJ provided a specific example upon which to explore these themes. But frankly, I could give a rat's ass about the details of DOJ life (other than wishing him well), particularly his sex life. The sex lives of 65 year olds may hold your attention, but not mine. A second theme, even expressed in the title of the post, is on betting and its predictive value over polling. To me, thats of interest. If not to you, thats fine. But no need to tantrum up the place because you don't care for the topic. S given these themes are too low in your view to put ones attention on, what are the lofty ideas that you think worthy of discussing? The concept of higher ahd lower ideas sort of makes me laugh. At a comment Rory made, So what else better do we have to do between now and eternity. It seems to me what is in ones attention right now is many times more important than some high falutin theme someone else thinks other people should be thinking. But I am open to changing my opinion if you can suggest better themes than what is happening in our minds Right Now. Gosh, maybe we can all sit around and discuss the last episode of Lost. Because, hey someone said it was spiritual so maybe we will all get really spiritual by watching it. Let me know how that one works out for you. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 60's TV Stereotyping
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 5/26/06 1:37:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've often found the opposite from that era. Yes, minorities would play maids but they were far from dumb. Often they would be the wise-cracking character who knew and expressed the truth about a situation. As I recall the maids and servants usually put the boss in their place. As did Jeeves. Which I found Bevan engrossed in once. Perhaps it was good therapy for his alter ego. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Seva Betting to Reveal the Truth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate $10 says its not a very comprehensive or impressive spiritual resume. What does your $10 say? And $10 says DOJ was not fully clothed with all body parts apprpriately placed, and thus And I was not naked was a parsed evasion of something. Will you people give it a fuckin' BREAK already? I mean, this is just embarrassing. Do you not have LIVES? The little old ladies in my village don't gossip as much as you do. Like you never did anything stupid in your lives... That you have entirely missed the main themes of this thread is a bit embarrassing -- but not that surprising. You have never struck me as a particularly careful reader. What interested me, and Judy I think expressed the same, is the structure and dyanmics of explanations / excuses, and IMO, cover-ups. DOJ provided a specific example upon which to explore these themes. But frankly, I could give a rat's ass about the details of DOJ life (other than wishing him well), particularly his sex life. The sex lives of 65 year olds may hold your attention, but not mine. A second theme, even expressed in the title of the post, is on betting and its predictive value over polling. To me, thats of interest. If not to you, thats fine. But no need to tantrum up the place because you don't care for the topic. S given these themes are too low in your view to put ones attention on, what are the lofty ideas that you think worthy of discussing? The concept of higher ahd lower ideas sort of makes me laugh at a comment Rory made, So what else better do we have to do between now and eternity. It seems to me what is in ones attention right now is many times more important than some high falutin theme someone else thinks other people should be thinking. But I am open to changing my opinion if you can suggest better themes than what is happening in our minds Right Now. Gosh, maybe we can all sit around and discuss the last episode of Lost. Because, hey someone said it was spiritual so maybe we will all get really spiritual by watching it. Let me know how that one works out for you. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: new_morning_blank_slate VERSUS sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shirleybrahman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, this is extraordinary, there is someone who posts even more than sparaig does! come on sparaig, are you going to let this person get way ahead of you?! stop taking your meds for a week, i'll bet that will dramatically improve your ability to post far more than this new joker! Another astute and carful reader on FFL. Maybe you and Turq can call each other and discuss your apparent ADHD or whatever prevents more than a 3 second scan of posts -- and a .2 second snap judgment on the content not read. (Call, cuz obviously you could not have a coherent text convo.) Or did you actually have some cogent thoughts about the ideas expressed in the posts? If so -- please by all means raise them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Yah, those Danes sure like TM
http://www.google.com/trends?q=maharishi%2C+Dali+Lamactab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=sex%2C+yogactab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=bliss%2C+moneyctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=Taylor+Dent%2C+Katharine+McPheectab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=meditation%2Cmarijuanactab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=tantra%2C+sexctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=vegetarian%2C+veganctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=meat%2C+vegetarianctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=WiFI%2C+DSLctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=bluegrass%2C+rapctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=tennis%2C+baseballctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=sharapova%2C+federerctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=God%2C+devilctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=jimi+Hendrix%2C+stevie+ray+vaughnctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=prana%2C+shaktictab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=shakti%2C+ojasctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=god%2C+goddessctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=enlightenment%2C+awakeningctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=dumb%2C+dumberctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=sex%2C+lovectab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=orgasm%2C+enlightenmentctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=tits%2C+assctab=2geo=alldate=all http://www.google.com/trends?q=jesus%2C+buddhactab=2geo=alldate=all To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: was No yellow stars -Northern arrogance
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...and who we call the Japanese are not themselves the true natives to the Islands we know as Japan. The Ainu -- an alleged Caucasian people -- are the previous inhabitants of Japan. And there are only several thousand left. The orientals there that we call Japanese came from China several thousand years ago. Well there are no true natives anywhere but Southern Africa. From where all our anscenstors immigarated 45,000 years ago or so. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] End of Slavery Soon after Revolution if Brits had Won RW
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thomas Jefferson blamed slavery on the British. Indeed, he felt that the British imposed it upon the colonies. If he did, its bit odd. Britian introduced slavery to many ofits colonies in the 1600's -- maybe that is what he is referring to. But I have read that, I think in Hamilton's bio, at the time of the revolution, Bitian was increasingly anti-slavery, and that if the British had won the Rev War, slavery would have been short lived in the colonies. Regardless, from other sources, Britain outlawed the slave trade in 1807 and soon began enforcing this principle on other nations. By the mid-19th century Britain had largely eradicated the world slave trade. Slavery itself was abolished in the British colonies in 1834. And he was really pissed off that the Brits got so high and mighty about offering slaves their freedom if they fought against the colonists during the revolutionary war. They did this as an effective tactic, but also because of the growing British belief in universal freedom (in terms of no slavery), something that the collectively founding fathers did not share -- despite their high minded rhetoric. (with strong exceptions such as Hamilton) Of course, Jefferson himself owned slaves which I believe he didn't free until his death. Hamilton was vehemently against slavery and never owned any. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: was No yellow stars -Northern arrogance
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes and At the time of the Constitutional Convention Georgia didn't want slavery in the constitution and threatened not to vote for it while Massachusetts insisted that slavery be constitutional. That doesn't sound right. In 1780 Massachusetts Constitution adopted with freedom clause interpreted as prohibiting slavery. Other colonies were also starting prohibitions -- nine years prior to the adoption of the constitution. --- 1774 Connecticut and Rhode Island prohibit further importation of slaves (although Rhode Island merchants remain in slave trade to other colonies). 1776 Society of Friends (Quakers) abolishes slavery among members. 1777 Vermont Constitution prohibits slavery. 1780 Massachusetts Constitution adopted with freedom clause interpreted as prohibiting slavery. Pennsylvania adopts gradual emancipation, freeing slaves born after 1780 upon their 28th birthday. Also General Grant didn't free his own slaves until about 1867. When pressed by the Press why he waited so long, it is said he coined the term, good help is hard to find. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: was No yellow stars -Northern arrogance
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, Caucasians= Sattva dominates, rajas secondary Semitic = Rajas dominates, sattva secondary Oriental = Rajas dominates, tamas secondary Black = Tamas dominates, rajas secondary This is evil and wrong. Yes. I wonder what the implications are -- that is, Bob's suggestion for creating a quantum leap in world Sattva might be. Or the plan of some limited mind who came across this chart and actually believed it. Interestily, Hilter read a lot of Madame Blavatsky and her racial theories cloaked in spiritualism. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: was No yellow stars -Northern arrogance
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: So, Caucasians= Sattva dominates, rajas secondary Semitic = Rajas dominates, sattva secondary Oriental = Rajas dominates, tamas secondary Black = Tamas dominates, rajas secondary This is evil and wrong. Yes. I wonder what the implications are -- that is, Bob's suggestion for creating a quantum leap in world Sattva might be. Or the plan of some limited mind who came across this chart and actually believed it. Interestily, Hilter read a lot of Madame Blavatsky and her racial theories cloaked in spiritualism. I heard somewhere that Gandhi was a fan of Hitler and his racial politics...anyone heard something similar? I read a quite comprhensive biography of him. And have studied him off and on since I was 16. I never heard of his being a fan of such. And it really doesn't fit his deep campassion and action for all castes, untouchables and muslems. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Dear Friend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 5/28/06 1:20 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: Yes. I wonder what the implications are -- that is, Bob's suggestion for creating a quantum leap in world Sattva might be. Or the plan of some limited mind who came across this chart and actually believed it. Interestily, Hilter read a lot of Madame Blavatsky and her racial theories cloaked in spiritualism. I heard somewhere that Gandhi was a fan of Hitler and his racial politics...anyone heard something similar? http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/fascism/gandhihitler.html I have not finished the whole article, but it appears a major area of concern that it raises is that Gandhi addressed the letter to Hitler as Dear Friend. To me, its shocking, sad and yet laughabley funny that this is an issue. How would Amma treat Hitler. Would she hug him? Of course she would. How would SSRS treat Hitler. Would he hug him? and smile and look deep into his eyes and make some up lifting comment andmake him laugh? Of course he would. Same for Sri Karanyumani, Mother Meera and any number of other true saints who know IT is in everyone and play to that audience. And they know warmth and goodness will create a better raction than scorn and dismissivness. I am nost suggesting Churchill and Roosevelt should have hugged Hitler, but I am glad someone rose to a high enough level to attempt to appeal to Hitlers basic humanity, basic inner core of bliss. Did it work? Kind of a Mu question. I don't expect Gandhi expected a sudden transformation from dear friend. But from a man of peace, its a better foundation for discussions than starting out, hey you lying cheating asshole! Most mothers would agree and teach their kids such. Its not rocket science. http://die_meistersinger.tripod.com/gandhi9.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Natural Clustering vs Repression
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 5/28/06 1:23 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Good point. MMY is a firm supporter of the caste system which oppresses humans in a completely different way. On TTC I remember seeing a video of questions to MMY from one of those Spain or Italy courses where someone came up and asked MMY about apartheid is South Africa. And MMY's response was: see the flower? See how the green stem is segregated from the red petals and the thorns are segregated from the green leaves. Go to any place you see people congregate and you see ethnic, religious, language, racial, educative, and economic clustering. Not a big surprise. Nothing particualrly bad in that. Unless it stems from economic, social and political discrimination and repression. Such as was manifest in both South Africa's aparteid and America's only recently diminished essentially apartheidic society. M.'s point was about natural clustering of people. Quite something different from entrenched economic, social and political discrimination and repression. (What may have been sad was his unspoken comments on the latter.) When Buckminster Fuller spoke at the Amherst SCI Symposium, he and Maharishi concurred, with specific reference to apartheid, that if people want to change the laws, they should do so through legal means, and that that until they are changed, they should be obeyed. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: was No yellow stars -Northern arrogance
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 5/28/06 1:23 AM, shempmcgurk at shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Good point. MMY is a firm supporter of the caste system which oppresses humans in a completely different way. On TTC I remember seeing a video of questions to MMY from one of those Spain or Italy courses where someone came up and asked MMY about apartheid is South Africa. And MMY's response was: see the flower? See how the green stem is segregated from the red petals and the thorns are segregated from the green leaves. When Buckminster Fuller spoke at the Amherst SCI Symposium, he and Maharishi concurred, with specific reference to apartheid, that if people want to change the laws, they should do so through legal means, and that that until they are changed, they should be obeyed. Of course, if India had followed his advice, they'd still be living under the thumb of the Scorpionlanders. Some laws are beyond acceptance. However, one most face the consequences if one breaks them. Are you somehow implying that any advocates and/or practicioners of non-violent passive resistance felt they should not, and were not willing to face the consequences of their actions? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: was No yellow stars -Northern arrogance
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Of course, if India had followed his advice, they'd still be living under the thumb of the Scorpionlanders. Some laws are beyond acceptance. However, one most face the consequences if one breaks them. Just as those who just wait for them to change must face the consequences of that action. Maharishi's advice is the kind of thing that keeps tyrants in power. Only if you assume that the Maharishi Effect has no effet... How is MMY's advice any different than Jesus' advice to turn the other cheek and render unto Caesar what is Caesars? An observation regarding the overall thread, not any specific post. I heard M say that if a nation is to be strong and progressive, citizens must follow its leaders' plans and initiatives. Coherent beams of light and all. Lots of resistance results in no progress. To make his point clear, he said that even if the devil himself is your leader, follow him faithfully, even if he takes you towards hell. Its in such steps that progress is made. (Pendulums swinging and all...). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Alleged Overlapping Bell Curves of Racial Differences
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But let's say this classification is true with some modification. The modification would be that any specific individual of any race could have any of the guna characteristics delineated by Bob. I've met some very sattvic Black people and some very tamasic White people. So perhaps as a group measure what Bob says is true, but you will find that the within group differences are greater than the between group differences. But consistent with your model, the mean (average) of each group would be what Bob proposes -- clear and significant racial distinctions. Four normal distributions (bell curves),overlapping, but the means falling at discrete racist points, it still supports a model of strong racial distinction (when genetics finds little support for race types beyond the supperficial.). There was a popular book The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life that suggested Intelligence and Performance for each race were overlapping normal disdrubutions -- in the latter regard, similar to your model -- but the means were quite distinctly different (as implied by your model.) That book was heavily criticized and its data and methods refuted. In this volume, Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray, authors of the notorious The Bell Curve (Free Pr., 1994), are once again accused of specious methodology in their rationalization of a (hoodoo) social science position that claims to validate an immutable genetic connection among low achievement, poverty, violent crime affecting an entire class of people (primarily African American), and I.Q. scores. The 44 contributors span a broad range of affiliation and focus. Similar to but more strident than those found in The Bell Curve Wars: Race, Intelligence, and the Future of America (LJ 4/15/94), these abundantly referenced essays criticize the validity of Herrnstein and Murray's thesis for use of questionable assumptions, reliance on racist scholars, rejection of contradictory evidence, and equation of correlation with cause. Part a product of an increasingly conservative society, part authors' bias, The Bell Curve is seen by the essayists as a seriously flawed, dangerous rearticulation of white supremacist/racist/class ideology. This thoughtful, readable anthology is highly recommended for academics, policy makers, and the general public. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Brangelina
I like AngelRad-- morphing into Rad Angel Of course there is Joulitt. or Pilie. Perhaps nicenames for thier kids. Hi, I'm Joulitt Rad Angel --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an amalgam that the media has given to the Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie coupling. Why Brangelina? Why not use the term Bradgelina which I think both sounds better and is more egalitarian when it comes to the number of letters both parties contribute. Who decides these things and why do we, the people, get no say in it? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dear Friend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, Hitler started out being quite loved in Germany, telling people all they wanted to here; appealing to their ego's and dreams of conquering the world; I think the inital appeal was to role back the highly abusive, crushing terms that the Allies (so called good guys) put on Germany and its people. Its no surprise that Germany was open to lots of options to get out from under Versaille. And well, while not a nobel trait, its human nature to look for retribution and revenge. So if a leader could 1) neutralize a clearly evil treaty, and 2) stomp a bit on the blue meanies who imposed it, no wonder he got strong initial support. And a number of themes were consistent with what we consider modern, progresive and hip things: fresh air, exercise, athletics, bautiful bodies, good food -- even vegetarianism, digging back to cultural roots, grand spectactles of music and large social events -- aka happenings, great art and architecture, etc. Then Hitler became addicted the Meth. It took its toll. From 41-45 he became increasingly deranged, unbalanced, meglomaniactic etc., from up to FIVE heavy injections per day! Not casual use. If he had not been overtaken by meth, a substantially different playout of the war may have occurred. And something less extreme. BTW, the blietzkrieg was not primarily due to superior german technology in airplanes and tanks, but rather the first full scale use of Meth by troops -- who literally stayed up 40-50 hours straight and just raced through Poland --then France etc. Unprecedented that troops did not stop to build camps, sleep,etc. They just pushed on, tweaking, euphoric, alert and self-confident. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Fear in the Streets
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But also because it's a matter of opinion, one on which you and I disagree, but on which a lot of other people do agree. One of the things that, *without exception*, every American who has visited me here in France has remarked on is the comparative levels of fear in the two countries. We're talking dozens of people, from all walks of life. ... Well, in my experience and in the experience of literally all of my American friends, one of the first things you notice in France, even in a big city like Paris, is the comparative absence of fear. In the general population, and in yourself. ... Five months later and the place was still empty. [from one bystander killing] That's the kind of fear I'm talking about, ... Americans are fearful about going to public places on a level that is generally unheard of in Europe. ... And it's quite a revelation to live without that constant threat of possible violence pressing down on you. It's like losing thirty pounds. I know that I can't convey this to you in words, but I had to try. America *is* more fearful than almost any country I have visited lately. And that's really sad, but I honestly believe it's sadly true. Well personal observations of several cities are interesting, but are antecdotal, hardly conclusive, nor the valid basis for sweeping generalizations. I lived in urban France some years ago, and I felt nor observed fear on the streets. But in that era, I didn't find fear in the US either. And I visited Paris for a week several years ago. I didn't observe or feel fear much, even wandering streets at 2am (clearly off the program.) But in visits within a year of two of that, I felt a distinct feeling of safety in urbane Oslo -- something I did not feel in a more neutral Paris (no fear, but no mother is at home). Also parts of Thailand (Chaing Mai) and India felt quite safe -- as much or more so than France. In the last 7 years, I have lived in, or stayed extensively in, about seven distinct locations. Two were right in the middle of large city urban areas. Another is 5 miles from such. One was a heavily ethnic neighborhood. In general, I didn't feel or observe fear levels much different than what I observed in France. But it varied by area. Generally, I felt safest in more rural and low-density suburban areas. But in one high desnity urban setting I felt totally safe and walked around late at night at times. Another urban area was the one area I would be more aware of potential crime -- but was not fearful. It did not prevent me from walking at night. It seems to me that fear/caution/security/totallysecure feelings correspond to crime levels in an area.. Such varies tremendously in the US. Thinking of crime and fear in walking at night in my current location is laughable. A loose very territorial dog might be my only concern. But even there, its not fearful. Just a slight caution. Overall, crime levels in the US are a bit higher than France, but not a huge difference. 62 vs 80 total crimes / capital. Though auto thefts are higher per capita in France. http://www.nationmaster.com/country/fr/cri http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us/cri Though interesting, Portugal -- which has a nice peaceful image for me -- has a higher crime rate than the US. Several reasons for lower crime rates. France appears to have way more police per capita than the US. And the US is more youthful. Youth cohorts are highly associated with crime levels. And, these are national averages. There are many areas in the US with substantially less crime rates than the national average. See the following site for comparing cities with national average. http://www.bestplaces.net/city/ Though I just noticed that FF has almost twice the property crime rate as the national average. So much for the ME effect. But it highlights a point. Do people in FF walk the streets full of fear? Even with higher than national crime rates? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Skeptic Kurtz on God.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believed that ethics and morals were like natural laws that came from God to mankind through the scriptures in each culture. When people refer to living the Dharma -- while mutiple meanings are possible -- it generally implies some cosmically correct, a priori, way of acting. Thus we get cosmically correct, dharmic codes of action like laws of manu -- much or which is laughable, if not horrifying, if applied in the modern age. I like the NLP's vison (not its implementation): laws should be based on the latest scientific research. (Not gut feelings of some bible thumping good ol boy elected 20 times to congress by a jerrymandered -- aka jerryRigged -- district.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: Religion Paranormal The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the Paranormal by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. snip The first part of the book comprises of a solid explanation and defense of both skepticism and the scientific method. There are, on the one hand, people who defend a practical stance towards knowledge and belief - people who are usually called empiricists, rationalists or skeptics. But on the other hand are people who are not content with mundane reality and who are susceptible to claims about deeper mysteries and truths which require faith for acceptance. Or which stem from direct personal experience. Which is a middle ground -- personally empirical. Not yet universally empirical. But personal skepticism is also called for along with personal empiricism. We experiece, but also interpret that experience. We need to question our interpretations. Is this the only possible interpretation of the experience? It appears to me, a lot of interpretations of experiences are based on faith / scripture / peer practice / magical thinking, etc. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: --- Religion Paranormal The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the Paranormal by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. Guide Rating - +++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. With the passing of time and more expierience gained, it has become round. This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal becomes normal. Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. Are you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of science? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 100K mark passed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/10 We quietly passed the 100,000 mark, and matrixmonitor, who was on a roll, was the lucky winner. About as significant a personal achievement as Barry Bond's. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: --- Religion Paranormal The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the Paranormal by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. Guide Rating - +++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. With the passing of time and more expierience gained, it has become round. This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal becomes normal. Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. Are you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of science? FWIW, I understood him to be saying that Kurtz lacks experience of the paranormal. ok. I read him to say This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal BECOMES normal. [caps added] My mistake. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: Religion Paranormal The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the Paranormal by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. snip The first part of the book comprises of a solid explanation and defense of both skepticism and the scientific method. There are, on the one hand, people who defend a practical stance towards knowledge and belief - people who are usually called empiricists, rationalists or skeptics. But on the other hand are people who are not content with mundane reality and who are susceptible to claims about deeper mysteries and truths which require faith for acceptance. Or which stem from direct personal experience. Which is a middle ground -- personally empirical. Not yet universally empirical. But personal skepticism is also called for along with personal empiricism. We experiece, but also interpret that experience. We need to question our interpretations. Is this the only possible interpretation of the experience? It appears to me, a lot of interpretations of experiences are based on faith / scripture / peer practice / magical thinking, etc. +++ You stand out in the rain- you get wet- some expieriences have a very limited range of interpretation and require little faith. Some would rather overlook the obvious and, others don't see what they are looking at. N But you seemto be leading quite a simple life if it primarily involves standing in the rain. :) Do you experience the sun rise? I do. Its personally empirical, but not consitent with what is scietifically empirical. My interpretation is limited. And are you really standing in the rain? And not some primordial quantum soup? On one level, that IS what is happening. As or more correct than your interpretation. And if you is only a construct, you standing in the rain is a weak, if not false interpretation. What if you know (primarily) the rain is IT and much as IT is within. Its then IT standing -- which is the act of IT -- in IT But my point is that some have an experience and interpret it as shakti, prana, kundalini, love, fear, pain, Brahman or CC or whatver. It may be. It may not be. Labels may be irrelevant. But labeling an experience by some name found in some scripture somewhere smells of a bit of faith. If not wishful thinking. Some will claim the self-evident defense. But as we have recently discussed, many have claimed things as self-evident when later we see they were false. The self-evident defense seems to me to be a spiffy faith-based defense in many cases. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. With the passing of time and more expierience gained, it has become round. This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal becomes normal. Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. Are you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of science? FWIW, I understood him to be saying that Kurtz lacks experience of the paranormal. ok. I read him to say This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal BECOMES normal. [caps added] I would guess that it becomes normal when you have lots of it. In other words, Kurtz hasn't had enough (if any) for it to become normal for him. Still not sure what this has to do with your notion that he was suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of or denies the history of science. My mistake. :) Well, maybe I am still missing his point. But he appears to be saying that some things that seem magical, later become scientific truths. I don't think Kurtz would argue that. The history of science is that things unknown become known. At the turn of the century some prominent scientists proclaimed we know everything now. Boy were they in for a shock. Radio would have seemed a paranormal pehomenon in 1850. By 1920 or so it was normal. Kurtz would not dispute that. It seems to me that Nelson was implying he would. If not, my mistake. However, that some things that seem magical, later become scientific truths does not imply, as Nelson may be doing, that all things magical later become scientific truths. Some things are just bunk, and will always be bunk. The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. However, its important to understand that the following corallary is not true Any magic will someday be seen as advanced technology. That is lots of paranormal stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become science in the future. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 100K mark passed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/10 We quietly passed the 100,000 mark, and matrixmonitor, who was on a roll, was the lucky winner. When does he get his 2006 Corvette Stingray? When the global climate change CRISIS hits? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry hyperbolicgeometry@ wrote: --- Religion Paranormal The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the Paranormal by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. Guide Rating - +++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. With the passing of time and more expierience gained, it has become round. This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal becomes normal. Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. Are you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of science? +++ NO.. It's more like when science finally figures everything out, there shouldn't be antything left to be classified as paranormal. N. Thats even funnier if I am understanding what you mean. Do you supppose science and uncovering new knowledge will ever stop? Are you suggesting that ALL things paranormal today will someday be found normal? If so, thats bunk. Some paranormal things today will always be bunk -- even in 10,000 years. Some will become science. But clearly not all paranormal today, or even much of it, IMO, will someday become science in the future. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo richardhughes103@ wrote: : It's one thing to speculate that we use only 10 percent of the brain's *potential* (although it's hard to say how one would arrive at a specific percentage); but the notion that we use only 10 percent of the brain itself is simply inaccurate. I read somewhere recently that we only use around 10% of our brains at a time because if every neuron fired at once we would keel over with shock. The point was we don't use the SAME 10% all the time but vary it according to what we are doing. I'm not sure about this. My understanding is that neurons are always at least a little active, firing-wise. Certainly, if you've ever watched a neuron, they're always active, physically. Fred Travis gives the statistic that 70% of the connections of our brain change every day. I don't know if the 70% figure is correct, but I think ANY reconfiguration of connections is due to the neurons seeking the maximum level of input from the surrounding neurons. I've read that only a small portion of all possible neural connections are used daily or ever used. What is it 100 billion neurons (ok I lokked it up 10 billion - 1 trillion for entire NS). With up to 10,000 possible connections per neuron. How many possible states? (You do the math). How many do we use. Will ever use? How many does someone on Brahaman use? (ONE! haha) I believe that all the existing connections are used constantly, Wow. way different than my sense of things. It would be useful and instructive to find what the research actually say. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: [...] I believe that all the existing connections are used constantly, Wow. way different than my sense of things. It would be useful and instructive to find what the research actually say. Perhaps it would be better to say that there is a low-level random noise of firing from all neurons that gets sent to all connecting neurons. There's a threshhold of noise below which the receiving neuron doesn't respond, however. The human brain has a huge number of synapses. Each of 100 billion neurons has on average 7,000 synaptic connections to other neurons. Most authorities estimate that the brain of a three-year-old child has about 1,000 trillion synapses. This number declines with age, stabilizing by adulthood. Estimates vary for an adult, ranging from 100 to 500 trillion synapses. OK. But thats 1,000 trillion synapses bathing in low-level random noise of firing. Seems kind of wasteful. I am still looking, but I thought I have read that 1) these quadrillion synapes are an average, and some, via genetics and exercising the brain, can have many more. 2) Most people only use and exercise a small portion of the quadrillion synapses. And though Peter finds that there is NO synaptic or other physiologic basis for spiritual states, as self-evident, I find it self-evident that there is a synamptic basis for such, much releated to avalable types of neurotransmittors, and that is why patanjali and MMY said transcendant states could be acheived with drugs. In fact if you bath synapes 3,564,678,654,556,486 to 3,784,567,232,734 with alternating dopamine and seretonin neural transmittor baths, while hitting synapes 5,554,638,467,342,584 to 6,123,265,362,274 with somatostatin, while flooding 9,785,767,275,926,756 with Norepinephrine, you will GET IT!! It will be SELF-EVIDENT!!! For short we call that the 3,564,678,654,556,486-3,784,567,232,734/5,554,638,467,342,584-6,123,265,362,274 /9,785,767,275,926,756 cocktail. (But don't drive or operated heavy machinery until you become accustomed to this state.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 100K mark passed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/10 We quietly passed the 100,000 mark, and matrixmonitor, who was on a roll, was the lucky winner. When does he get his 2006 Corvette Stingray? When the global climate change CRISIS hits? Oh, so never. I found the comment funny because 1) knowing you would say the above, 2) at least getting you to address the right framing of the issue (as opposed to global warming sans crisis 3) if global climate change CRISIS does hit, then while he can posess such a muscle car, he will not be permited to drive it (and many other civil liberties will be suspended -- all due to lack of prior social attention.) 4) Even if he snuck out and drove it, he could not do it on Pacific Coast Highway -- the best place for such a car -- because PCH will be 30 feet under -- except for a few stretches around Big Sur. 5) Heather Graham would never be caught in such a car -- so who would want it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Fear and Loathing in LA
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An example, directly related to theater attendance. The last time I was in L.A., I wanted to see a movie so I went to Westwood, the area near UCLA just filled (in my memory) with bustling crowds, nice restaurants, and movie theaters. Well, I got there, parked, and started walking around. There were no crowds, even though it was a Friday night. The restaurants were near-empty. So were the movie theaters; no waiting on line to get in, and when you did, you found yourself sitting in a half- empty theater. I couldn't help but wonder why, so I asked. A distiction between magical thinkers and rational thinkers is the former tend to far more mistake correlation for causation. As Kurtz points out, the corrleation of a prayer with a good outcome, does not indicate causation. Only correlation. This above post is an example that presents itself, though it does not provide as as sharp as distinction as some. That a bystander was killed 5 weeks prior corresponds (correlates) with lower film attendance than percieved years ago by the poster, and the near-term average as perceived by the cinema employee. Maybe thats a reasonable guess. However, both jump to the conclusion that the shooting was the cause of lower attendance. Not apparently as a guess, but as fact. The poster even then uses this one alleged fact to generalize that americans are far more feaful than the French. More magical thinking, taking a sparse corrleation, misinterpreting that as fact, then using that as the basis for sweeping generalization. How magical! Did each observer account for the following (and have the skills to do so): seasonal and holiday variations, the longer term trend of declining movie attendance, increased gas prices resulting in less driving, weather variations, a current crop of bad, low grossing films, other events at other venues or points of interest in the city(concerts, ball games, a big TV event, even great beach weather), Highway 10, 101 and others being jammed up, sunspots (:)), etc. I doubt it. Magical thinking, knowing that correlated things are causal -- especially when its felt to be self-evident are not solely the domain of the religious right, or uneducated. It permeates society. Even this list. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate Well, maybe I am still missing his point. But he appears to be saying that some things that seem magical, later become scientific truths. I don't think Kurtz would argue that. The history of science is that things unknown become known. At the turn of the century some prominent scientists proclaimed we know everything now. Boy were they in for a shock. Radio would have seemed a paranormal pehomenon in 1850. By 1920 or so it was normal. Kurtz would not dispute that. It seems to me that Nelson was implying he would. If not, my mistake. However, that some things that seem magical, later become scientific truths does not imply, as Nelson may be doing, that all things magical later become scientific truths. Some things are just bunk, and will always be bunk. The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. However, its important to understand that the following corallary is not true Any magic will someday be seen as advanced technology. That is lots of paranormal stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become science in the future. +++ Could we say then that some things we see or expierience today will be proven not to have happened oneday because there is no scientific explaination? just curious,, N. I don't follow. Can you give specific examples of what you are referring to. I would venture that some of our interpretations of what we see or experience today will change in the future, in that sense that interpretation (our current reality) will change, the old ones will disappear. Pat Robertson's reality on 9/12/01 was that the attack was caused by abortions and homosexual behavior. That is what he saw and experienced -- since I doubt he is clear enough to separate his perceptions from his interpretations. I think he as many realize now, and if not -- will more so in the future -- that thats not what happened. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [...] The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. However, its important to understand that the following corallary is not true Any magic will someday be seen as advanced technology. That is lots of paranormal stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become science in the future. +++ Could we say then that some things we see or expierience today will be proven not to have happened oneday because there is no scientific explaination? just curious,, N. Here's a set of quotes from scientists that you may find amusing. Some are long-winded and some are succinct: http://www.amasci.com/weird/skepquot.html All great truths begin as blasphemies. - George Bernard Shaw And few blasphemies end up as great truths -- New Morning To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [...] The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. However, its important to understand that the following corallary is not true Any magic will someday be seen as advanced technology. That is lots of paranormal stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become science in the future. +++ Could we say then that some things we see or expierience today will be proven not to have happened oneday because there is no scientific explaination? just curious,, N. Here's a set of quotes from scientists that you may find amusing. Some are long-winded and some are succinct: http://www.amasci.com/weird/skepquot.html The ability to quote is a servicable substitute for wit. - W. Somerset Maugham To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear and Loathing in LA
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: An example, directly related to theater attendance. The last time I was in L.A., I wanted to see a movie so I went to Westwood, the area near UCLA just filled (in my memory) with bustling crowds, nice restaurants, and movie theaters. Well, I got there, parked, and started walking around. There were no crowds, even though it was a Friday night. The restaurants were near-empty. So were the movie theaters; no waiting on line to get in, and when you did, you found yourself sitting in a half- empty theater. I couldn't help but wonder why, so I asked. A distiction between magical thinkers and rational thinkers is the former tend to far more mistake correlation for causation. As Kurtz points out, the corrleation of a prayer with a good outcome, does not indicate causation. Only correlation. [...] Magical thinking, knowing that correlated things are causal -- especially when its felt to be self-evident are not solely the domain of the religious right, or uneducated. It permeates society. Even this list. Scientists are by no means immune to this. The scientific method is supposed to reduce the incidence, but all theories assume _propter hoc_ so there's always the risk of the _post hoc_ fallacy. Does the use of lots of _hocs correlate with hoccum? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear and Loathing in LA
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: An example, directly related to theater attendance. The last time I was in L.A., I wanted to see a movie so I went to Westwood, the area near UCLA just filled (in my memory) with bustling crowds, nice restaurants, and movie theaters. Well, I got there, parked, and started walking around. There were no crowds, even though it was a Friday night. The restaurants were near-empty. So were the movie theaters; no waiting on line to get in, and when you did, you found yourself sitting in a half- empty theater. I couldn't help but wonder why, so I asked. A distiction between magical thinkers and rational thinkers is the former tend to far more mistake correlation for causation. As Kurtz points out, the corrleation of a prayer with a good outcome, does not indicate causation. Only correlation. [...] Magical thinking, knowing that correlated things are causal -- especially when its felt to be self-evident are not solely the domain of the religious right, or uneducated. It permeates society. Even this list. Scientists are by no means immune to this. The scientific method, and the cultivation rationalist mindsets -- characterized by not falling for logical fallacies -- something every college education should do -- but clearly does not. A major logical fallacy is post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this). Such is mistaking correlation with causation. A sequence is a correlation of events over time. Corrleation with a time lag. Sequences don't establish causality any more than correlations do. That two events are correleated (including lags) does not make a case for causation. That is the whole point of my prior post. is supposed to reduce the incidence, but all theories assume _propter hoc_ so there's always the risk of the _post hoc_ fallacy. That does not follow very tightly (I won't stoop to using the latin). Theories are built to show causal relations. To predict that i) when A happens, B will happen, and ii) when A does not happen B does not happen, and iii) When B happens A did not occur prior to it. All three must occur. Its laughable how many poeple offer up theories that cover i) but not ii) or iii). When I strum the guitar at dawn, the sun rises ergo the guitar raises the sun. while a nice poetic image in Black Orphesus, is not a valid theory. That the guitar raises the sun is not self-evident (as analogies to the type of thing many magical thinkers claim), but self-deception. If one is competent to present a theory of causation that meets these three criteria, and develops a good track record of prediction, then why would the theorist fall back into midieval magical thinking and start thinking post hoc correlations are explanatory and causal? To me, thats silly. Post hoc reasoning is the basis for and magical thinking, superstitions, midieval, religious and tribal beliefs. It seems magical thinking that one competent in discerning causal relations will fall back into superstition. But, sure, on your point of danger -- in the flurry of hypothesis generation, many causal relations may be thrown on the table. In the excitment of such, many may guess at causal relations. Thats the purpose of hypotheses generation. But few such causalfactors survive the exam. And few competent theorists will cling to the corpse of a strong correlation as which has been rejected as causative. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear and Loathing in LA
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: An example, directly related to theater attendance. The last time I was in L.A., I wanted to see a movie so I went to Westwood, the area near UCLA just filled (in my memory) with bustling crowds, nice restaurants, and movie theaters. Well, I got there, parked, and started walking around. There were no crowds, even though it was a Friday night. The restaurants were near-empty. So were the movie theaters; no waiting on line to get in, and when you did, you found yourself sitting in a half- empty theater. I couldn't help but wonder why, so I asked. A distiction between magical thinkers and rational thinkers is the former tend to far more mistake correlation for causation. As Kurtz points out, the corrleation of a prayer with a good outcome, does not indicate causation. Only correlation. [...] Magical thinking, knowing that correlated things are causal -- especially when its felt to be self-evident are not solely the domain of the religious right, or uneducated. It permeates society. Even this list. Scientists are by no means immune to this. The scientific method, and the cultivation rationalist mindsets -- characterized by not falling for logical fallacies -- something every college education should do -- but clearly does not. A major logical fallacy is post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this). Such is mistaking correlation with causation. A sequence is a correlation of events over time. Corrleation with a time lag. Sequences don't establish causality any more than correlations do. That two events are correleated (including lags) does not make a case for causation. That is the whole point of my prior post. is supposed to reduce the incidence, but all theories assume _propter hoc_ so there's always the risk of the _post hoc_ fallacy. That does not follow very tightly (I won't stoop to using the latin). Theories are built to show causal relations. To predict that i) when A happens, B will happen, and ii) when A does not happen B does not happen, and iii) When B happens A did not occur prior to it. All three must occur. Its laughable how many poeple offer up theories that cover i) but not ii) or iii). When I strum the guitar at dawn, the sun rises ergo the guitar raises the sun. while a nice poetic image in Black Orphesus, is not a valid theory. That the guitar raises the sun is not self-evident (as analogies to the type of thing many magical thinkers claim), but self-deception. If one is competent to present a theory of causation that meets these three criteria, and develops a good track record of prediction, then why would the theorist fall back into midieval magical thinking and start thinking post hoc correlations are explanatory and causal? To me, thats silly. Post hoc reasoning is the basis for and magical thinking, superstitions, midieval, religious and tribal beliefs. It seems magical thinking that one competent in discerning causal relations will fall back into superstition. But, sure, on your point of danger -- in the flurry of hypothesis generation, many correlations may be thrown on the table. In the excitment of such, many may guess at causal relations. Thats the purpose of hypotheses generation. But few such correlated factors survive the exam. And few competent theorists will cling to the corpse of a strong correlation which has been rejected as causative. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Need some TANG?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Transcendental argument for the non-existence of God The Transcendental Argument for the Non-existence of God (also called TANG) was first explicitly formulated by Michael Martin in a 1996 article in New Zealand Rationalist Humanist [1]. ... Furthermore, there is conflict amongst religious people about what God's will actually consists of, and there seems to be no way to rationally reconcile them (assuming the equal standing of all claims to divine inspiration). With these two premises, the argument concludes that upholding objective morality proves that the Christian worldview is false. Though that is quite different from a valid Transcendental argument for the non-existence of God. If an excepetion is found, the proof is invalid. Its reasonable to hypothesize that if God exists, IT gave humanity the ability to investigate and reason, to figure out what works and what does not in any given age, climate, geography, state of technological, cultural, human rights, self-rule and economic development. Because its self-evident (:)) that if god exists, IT was smart enough to know that optimal rules of society, economy, conduct, etc will differ as those factors differ. (I mean like EVEN Ifigured it out so God must have.) As a quick aside, MMY said climate and geography are the two dominant differentiating factors for all cultures and religions. (Desert religions, mountain religions, etc). So if God gave humanity the tools to figure it out, and adaptively learn and modify, and did not give explicit rules to follow, then martin's argument is not germane, and it does not prove the non-exsistance of God. It may simply indicate that current religions are internally inconsistant and thus untrue as a whole. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: ...or some TAG?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Transcendental argument for the existence of God The Transcendental Argument for the existence of God (TAG) is an argument for the existence of God which attempts to show that logic, science, ethics (and generally every fact of human experience and knowledge) are not meaningful apart from a preconditioning belief in the existence of the Christian God. Holy Shit! If the purveyors of this holy crap don't see its crap from its very premise, why read more? It follow from their premise that any logic, science, ethics or human experience of a Jew,Hindu, Buddhist, Deist, Unitarian or Secularist is not meaningful. A version was formulated by Immanuel Kant in his 1763 work The Only Possible Argument in Support of a Demonstration of the Existence of God. Yikes. If Kant wrote that, consistent with the above arguemt, then such a weak mind could not have come to reasonable claims in his Categorical Imperative (similar ot Golden Rule) arguements. Another icon falls today. A version is also commonly used by presuppositional apologists and is considered by some of them (especially those of the Van Tillian variety) to be the only valid method of apologetical argumentation. The ONLY --hmmm sounds quite open minded. Contents [hide] 1 Transcendental reasoning 2 The argument 3 Criticisms of the TAG 4 Defenses of the TAG 5 More information 6 See also 7 References 8 External links 8.1 Articles 8.2 Debates [edit] Transcendental reasoning Transcendental arguments should not be confused with transcendent arguments, or arguments for the existence of something transcendent. In other words, they are distinct from both, arguments that appeal to a transcendent intuition or sense as evidence (Fideism), and arguments which move from direct evidence to the exisitence of a transcendent thing (Classical Apologetics). They are also distinct from standard deductive and inductive forms of reasoning. Where a standard deductive argument looks for what we can deduce from the fact of X, and a standard inductive argument looks for what we can infer from experience of X, a transcendental argument looks for the necessary prior conditions to both the fact and experience of X. The Knower. Thus, I entitle transcendental all knowledge which is occupied not so much with objects as with the mode of our knowledge of objects in so far as this mode of knowledge is to be possible a priori. (Immanuel Kant, Critique of Pure Reason, Introduction, VII). ... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate Well, maybe I am still missing his point. But he appears to be saying that some things that seem magical, later become scientific truths. I don't think Kurtz would argue that. The history of science is that things unknown become known. At the turn of the century some prominent scientists proclaimed we know everything now. Boy were they in for a shock. Radio would have seemed a paranormal pehomenon in 1850. By 1920 or so it was normal. Kurtz would not dispute that. It seems to me that Nelson was implying he would. If not, my mistake. However, that some things that seem magical, later become scientific truths does not imply, as Nelson may be doing, that all things magical later become scientific truths. Some things are just bunk, and will always be bunk. The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. However, its important to understand that the following corallary is not true Any magic will someday be seen as advanced technology. That is lots of paranormal stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become science in the future. +++ Could we say then that some things we see or expierience today will be proven not to have happened oneday because there is no scientific explaination? just curious,, N. I don't follow. Can you give specific examples of what you are referring to. snip +++ I once was at a meeting of three couples where coffee was served. It was an eight cup coffee pot and each person had at least two cups. I conclude that, in some cases, science is irrelevant. N. While I don't see why your riddle is outside the realm of logic (the couples were not independent -- AB BC and CD, thus ABCD each had two cups). While your conclusiuon does not follow from your illustration,I agree with the conclusion. Of course science is not particularly (curently at least) relevant to lots of things: beauty, love etc. It can tell us some things about cultural and gentic conditioning, perception and its traps -- all relevant to love and beauty, but far from comprehensive. I don't consult a scientist to figure out if the sunset is beautiful, or if I am in love. Or to figure out Love and Beauty's nature. My favorite all time joke, illustrative of the limits of science is ... 63!!! For those who don'tremember 63, its the one where the drunk is unsuccessfully looking for his car keys under the streetlamp. A passerby asks whats the matter blah blah .. and then asks well where did you lose your kyes. Over there said the drunk. Well why are you looking for them here. The drunk answers, The lights much better here. Some use the light of science to look for stuff where science cannot shine. (Nor the sun). Like a guy with a hammer, every problem is a nail. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While your conclusiuon does not follow from your illustration,I agree with the conclusion. Of course science is not particularly (curently at least) relevant to lots of things: beauty, love etc. It can tell us some things about cultural and gentic conditioning, perception and its traps -- all relevant to love and beauty, but far from comprehensive. I don't consult a scientist to figure out if the sunset is beautiful, or if I am in love. Or to figure out Love and Beauty's nature. My favorite all time joke, illustrative of the limits of science is ... 63!!! For those who don'tremember 63, its the one where the drunk is unsuccessfully looking for his car keys under the streetlamp. A passerby asks whats the matter blah blah .. and then asks well where did you lose your kyes. Over there said the drunk. Well why are you looking for them here. The drunk answers, The lights much better here. Some use the light of science to look for stuff where science cannot shine. (Nor the sun). Like a guy with a hammer, every problem is a nail. And that doesn't make science irrelevant to many realms. It dosn't make the paranormal true. Much of the paranormal is within the light of science. Tele-kinetics, Tele-pathy are all quite testable. In a couple of centuries, no set of studies indicate much validity to such. Not that they won't some say. But haven't as of yet. (And testing tele-kinetics doesn't require some sophisticed not-yet existing measurement devices. The figgin thing moves or it doesn't. So far, it has not. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: snip My favorite all time joke, illustrative of the limits of science is ... 63!!! For those who don'tremember 63, its the one where the drunk is unsuccessfully looking for his car keys under the streetlamp. A passerby asks whats the matter blah blah .. and then asks well where did you lose your kyes. Over there said the drunk. Well why are you looking for them here. The drunk answers, The lights much better here. FWIW, this was originally one of the jokes told by the medieval Muslim sage Nasrudin, in which he frequently featured himself as something of a nitwit. They're actually koan-like teaching stories with several layers of meaning. Wow! I did not know that. Thank you for pointing him to me. The stories have gone through a number of incarnations. When I was growing up, we told them as jokes and called them Little Moron stories. In your version, Nasrudin has become a drunk. any links to such? Some use the light of science to look for stuff where science cannot shine. (Nor the sun). Very nice use of that story! I've also seen it used with regard to spiritual seeking. Its what shot out the first time I heard it. In era I was at MUI SB. I laughed quite hard. (still laughing, haha) Here's a neat one: The Guest of Honor The dervish Nasrudin oh so its Sufi, -- something more specific than muslim -- I love sufi stories and traditions. Though I probably blur somethings. Rumi was Sufi? entered a formal reception area and seated himself at the foremost elegant chair. The Chief of the Guard approached and said: Sir, those places are reserved for guests of honor. Oh, I am more than a mere guest, replied Nasrudin confidently. Oh, so are you a diplomat? Far more than that! Really? So you are a minister, perhaps? No, bigger than that too. Oho! So you must be the King himself, sir, said the Chief sarcastically. Higher than that! Only Allah is higher than the King! I am more than that, too! What?! Are you higher than Allah?! Nobody is higher than Allah! Now you have it. I am nobody! said Nasrudin. haha. good one. Reminds me of a favorite story of SSRS. Which I just started to try to retell, but can't do justice to. maybe others can. About series of king's ministers sent to check out saint. Last minister, no ostentatious treatement just the presence. From: http://lawnorder.blogspot.com/2005/08/nasrudin-wikibooks.html Here's one I remember from childhood: The little moron and a friend are walking down the railroad tracks. All of a sudden, they come upon a human leg. That looks like Joe's leg, the friend says. It is Joe's leg! the little moron says. They walk a little farther and find an arm. By gum, that looks like Joe's arm, exlaims the friend. It is Joe's arm! says the little moron. They walk on. Shortly they discover a head. Oh, my God, that looks like Joe's head, says the friend. It is Joe's head! says the little moron. He picks it up by the ears and shakes it, crying, Joe, Joe, are you hurt? haha To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: FWIW, this was originally one of the jokes told by the medieval Muslim sage Nasrudin, in which he frequently featured himself as something of a nitwit. They're actually koan-like teaching stories with several layers of meaning. Wow! I did not know that. Thank you for pointing him to me. Mulla Nasrudin by Idries Shah COW WITH CALF The Mulla went to market to sell his cow, but nobody wanted to buy. A neighbour came along and said: 'Let me try, you're doing it all wrong.' 'I must learn this art,' thought the Mulla. 'First-class cow, in calf for five months!' yelled the neighbour. In next to no time the animal was sold. When he arrived home, Nasrudin found that a young man had called to inquire about marrying his daughter. All the Mulla did was to try out his newly acquired skill. He was amazed by the speed at which the suitor rushed from the house. haha To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: All the Mulla did was to try out his newly acquired skill. He was amazed by the speed at which the suitor rushed from the house. haha Neat! A judge in a village court had gone on vacation. As per the local rules, Nasrudin was asked to be a temporary judge for a day. Nasrudin sat on the Judge's chair with utmost serious face and gazed around the public in audience and ordered that first case be brought-up for hearing. You are right, said Nasrudin after hearing one side. You are right, he said after hearing the other side. But both cannot be right, said a member of public sitting in the audience. You are right, too said Nasrudin to the person in public. Interpretations 1. Those that are less than right, often keep to the left. * When everybody thinks they are right, the truth gets left behind. 2. Judge not that ye may not also be judged. 3. Accentuate the positive. 4. Sympathy is as important to a judge as judgement. 5. Don't be afraid to look beyond both sides of an argument. 6. If you can only see two sides of an argument you are missing something. 7. Forgiveness is divine 8. Even judges can be fools 9. Everybody is right, in their own respective ways. 10. Justice is not always just. 11. It is easy to be 'right' from one's own perspective. 12. The person who says that you are 'right' might be wrong. 13. There is only one reality, and there are many interpretations of the reality; like facets on a diamond. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Memorial Day Message
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every Memorial Day we hear that myth about those who have fallen fighting for our freedom. Believe me nobody ever died fighting for our freedom. Horse shit. You poor dryless cynic. Instead they fought to keep the rich rich and the poor poor. What else did you learn in Imperialism 101. They fought the wars as pawns for the rich. The rich could give a damn about our freedom, instead just theirs to keep counting their money. When will we learn? Well, despite all your tantric training, you perhaps have not learned much. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Memorial Day Message
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Every Memorial Day we hear that myth about those who have fallen fighting for our freedom. Believe me nobody ever died fighting for our freedom. Horse shit. You poor dryless cynic. To hold that many of those sent to fight did not believe and dedicate their lives to noble ideals is horseshit, and personifies a soul never engaged in the front lines and the horror and sacrafices made. That many leaders on many sides through history have let down the troops they led into battle with national chauvinism and jingoistic bravado is indisputable. But to demean those sent to die, often with no choice, often fought with noble and sincere ideals, is quite putridly sick. Don't demean common soldiers' courage and sacrafices with your armchair horseshit meanderings of a dry soul, devoid of compassion, shakti, or any positive tantric virtue. Instead they fought to keep the rich rich and the poor poor. The fallen soldiers, on both sides, deserve honor and respect. Their leaders may not, and may deserve damnation. Revolutionary War (seems noble with exceptions), Civil war (seems a waste, let states determine their own destinies as free people), Indian wars (genocidic, excessive, which we bear great shame, and bear the price of still today), WWI (a waste of US effort -- a power struggle of tired and decayed imperialist powers, which the US should have left to wear down their depraved imperialistic and militeristic ways), WWII (a result of Allied harshness of the Treaty of Versaille, but noble in a limited view, the need to contain facism and neo-imperialism), Viet-Nam (a sad waste). But any soldier who was called and fought have my respect. Any soldier maimed, has much respect. Any soldier who died in such, has much much honor and respect. On both sides. And those that resisted. Went to jail. COs. To demean the sincerity of the majority of common soldiers is sad, if not horrific, on Memorial Day. Caste your spite, if you must, on stupid and manipulative leaders. But casting love, foregiveness, and acceptance is the path to peace. Not empty disrespectful rhetoric. I have spent the day honoring the 57,000+ american dead from Vietnam. Its such a huge number of souls. I wish I could light a candle for each. Next year! May we all give them deserved compassion. As well as the several million (by some accounts) of perished vietnamese. And WWII. The tragedy boggles the mind and heart. From blitzkrieg, to death camps, to the fierceness of Okinowa and pending Kyusua, to the horror of the Atomic bombs. How dare you defile the sacrafice of millions with platitudes! All honor and love to all deseased and maimed. On all sides. And hoping all can finally appreciate the pure and deep humanity in all. And war will become a relic. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Memorial Day Message
Per you kind words. That's all maya my friend. Wake up You are in Brahman consciousness and completley beyond the veil of maya? Well then All glory to you. If not, then continue to spill your empty words as therapy. And we will try to remember your challenges and not take you to heart, or seriously, and condemn you as we would a whole person for such hollowness and callousness. And we will all pray that someday you will resolve your huge discodance with reality and become some semblance of a whole human being. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: new_morning_blank_slate wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Every Memorial Day we hear that myth about those who have fallen fighting for our freedom. Believe me nobody ever died fighting for our freedom. Horse shit. You poor dryless cynic. To hold that many of those sent to fight did not believe and dedicate their lives to noble ideals is horseshit, and personifies a soul never engaged in the front lines and the horror and sacrafices made. That many leaders on many sides through history have let down the troops they led into battle with national chauvinism and jingoistic bravado is indisputable. But to demean those sent to die, often with no choice, often fought with noble and sincere ideals, is quite putridly sick. Don't demean common soldiers' courage and sacrafices with your armchair horseshit meanderings of a dry soul, devoid of compassion, shakti, or any positive tantric virtue. Instead they fought to keep the rich rich and the poor poor. The fallen soldiers, on both sides, deserve honor and respect. Their leaders may not, and may deserve damnation. Revolutionary War (seems noble with exceptions), Civil war (seems a waste, let states determine their own destinies as free people), Indian wars (genocidic, excessive, which we bear great shame, and bear the price of still today), WWI (a waste of US effort -- a power struggle of tired and decayed imperialist powers, which the US should have left to wear down their depraved imperialistic and militeristic ways), WWII (a result of Allied harshness of the Treaty of Versaille, but noble in a limited view, the need to contain facism and neo-imperialism), Viet-Nam (a sad waste). But any soldier who was called and fought have my respect. Any soldier maimed, has much respect. Any soldier who died in such, has much much honor and respect. On both sides. And those that resisted. Went to jail. COs. To demean the sincerity of the majority of common soldiers is sad, if not horrific, on Memorial Day. Caste your spite, if you must, on stupid and manipulative leaders. But casting love, foregiveness, and acceptance is the path to peace. Not empty disrespectful rhetoric. I have spent the day honoring the 57,000+ american dead from Vietnam. Its such a huge number of souls. I wish I could light a candle for each. Next year! May we all give them deserved compassion. As well as the several million (by some accounts) of perished vietnamese. And WWII. The tragedy boggles the mind and heart. From blitzkrieg, to death camps, to the fierceness of Okinowa and pending Kyusua, to the horror of the Atomic bombs. How dare you defile the sacrafice of millions with platitudes! All honor and love to all deseased and maimed. On all sides. And hoping all can finally appreciate the pure and deep humanity in all. And war will become a relic. That's all maya my friend. Wake up. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Memorial Day Message
So Turq, When did you file your CO (conscientious objector) papers? Tell us about your plans to go to jail rather than perpetuate war and to kill. Or are your words as hollow as your friends? And when did resisting wars ever mean one can't and should not honor those that did offer their bodies, willingly, or by coercion, as a sacrifice. I honor those that resisted, those that were on the other side (a strange concept), and those who were conscripted and volunteered for the US Armed Forces and lost limbs and lives. Are you one of those who spit on vietnam vet amputees and maimed? Can you step off your soap box long enough to honor those who were forced to fight wars they did not start? I have less sympathy for leaders and voters who create and feed the foundations of war. And dillitants who sprout prissy nice words that are hollow, cynical and so dry -- empty of compassion and humanity. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Every Memorial Day we hear that myth about those who have fallen fighting for our freedom. Believe me nobody ever died fighting for our freedom. The vast majority of them fought and died because they were told to and had so little imagination that it never occurred to them that they could say no, to conscription and to the whole stupid business of war. But mark my words, you're gonna get a lot of flak here for saying this, from those with just as little imagination, who are upset that you choose to rock the boat when they are afraid to. Exactly, you are so right. A number of years ago, when I was living in Boston, I was fortunate enough to meet a remarkable gentleman by the name of Lewis Randa. Lewis was nothing short of an inspiration, one of those guys who never outgrew the peace and love ideals of the Sixties, and who dedicated his life to promoting them. Oh, the stories I could tell you about Lewis and the incredible support of nature that he had. Anyway, just as a tie-in to this tempest in a pisspot over you daring to say that war is stupid, in the same small Boston suburb where his Peace Abbey retreat house is located, Lewis organized and built a Peace Memorial. His thinking was that there is a War Memorial in every city in the United States, glorifying and perpuating the nobility of war. Why not at least one memorial suggesting another Way? Well, the good people of Sherborn, Massachusetts almost lynched him. During the fundraising and the construction, there were smear articles against him in the local paper and in Boston papers. His children were thrown out of local schools for trumped-up reasons. He received death threats. They tried to shut down the school he ran at the Peace Abbey for developmentally-challenged children. All because he refused to buy in to the insanity of war and the even more insane idea that we should praise those who perpetuate it by offering their bodies as a sacrifice. So you're in good company. http://www.peaceabbey.org/memorial/memorial.htm If you're ever in the Boston area, do drop in to see Lewis at the Peace Abbey. It's an experience you are not likely to soon forget. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Memorial Day Message
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know that Judy won't understand this, because she's too far gone, but the above comment is *exactly* why she and new_morning_blank_slate are consigned to my Pissant Bin. It's not that they have nothing to say. They don't, but that's beside the point. :-) It's that they are compelled to react to positions they don't agree with by TRYING TO MAKE THE OTHER PERSON FEEL BAD. *That* is what they are trying to achieve in their posts. I suspect that anyone here with any psychic sensibilities has felt this. You are correct in that I crossed my own line in personally attacking Bhairitu. I strongly disagreed with his post, but should have focussed on ideas not persons. I have long held that as the standard of good conduct, and at times have encouraged others to also follow it. For my transgression, I apologize. In this thread, when new_morning first jumped on Bhairitu for what he posted, his *first reaction* was to imply that there was something *wrong* with him for stating that opinion. He tried to portray Bhairitu as somehow bad and not caring about vets just because he made the points that he'd made. His *first reaction* was to try to make the person who disagreed with him the bad guy and (IMO) to try to make him feel bad about himself. It didn't work. Bhairitu laughed at him. Above, Judy expresses (not for the first time) her fantasy and her main reason for posting on the Internet. She has said many times that she *delights* in trying to make her opponents in a debate feel bad. That's *why* she debates them. Her *first reaction* in this thread was the same as new_morning's; she was interested only in finding someone she could put down, and hopefully make feel bad. I am curious. Are you attempting to make Judy feel bad? While not trying to make you feel bad, but perhaps to reflect a bit, my impression is that you quite regularly and agressively attack people, often by (mistakenly, IMO)characterizing their inner motives. Sometimes out and out name calling. For example, when you call people Pissants, are you attempting to make them feel good? I know that saying a poster is projecting their own inner issues is sometimes used without much basis. But here, it appears to me to have a strong foundation. Its something you might ponder. With your strong propensity for, and regular habit of attacking others, do you think it odd, perhaps indicative of something trying to resolve itself, that you so strongly attack attackers. It didn't work. It rarely does. It's sad, but as I and a number of others have said in the past, it's really Not Our Problem. Just because these two people get their jollies by trying to suck people into extended arguments with them so that they can put them down doesn't mean that we have to fall for it. While not trying to make you feel bad, the breadth of your sweeping genealizations still astonished me. I have made perhaps 100 posts in the past month. Only one that I can recall had a personal attack. And none were provokatively argumentative that I recall, they stated a POV. Some were even quite complimetary of the poster. Your hypothesis appears quite weak and devoid of much empirical support. Again, you might consider the possibility of projection here. You strongly attack provokation, yet appear to regularly engage in it. Even in this post, can you honestly say you are not trying to provoke Judy into anargument? In some of those 100 posts, still a minority, I did disagree with posters ideas. Quite a legitmate domain. It would be quite boring here if we all agreed with everything. That is quite distinct from disrespecting and trashing the poster. Perhaps that is a distinction that you appear to be blurring in your mind -- by seeing disagreements with ideas as personal attacks. As an observation, not intended to make you feel bad, but as something to reflect on and consider, the above appears to be a trigger for your personal attacks. When you disagree with a poster, far more often than not, you disregard the content and ideas of the post, and attack the poster, often by suggeting some (quite weak imo) hypotheses (stated as fact) regarding their motives and basic character. As you have done in this post. So again thank you for pointing out my stepping over the line and personally attacking Bhairitu. Focussing on ideas and a posts' content, and not sinking to personal attacks and speculations on inner motives (which are rarely complimentary and are usually a venue for pesonal attack), is a good standard that I try to maintain. I recommend and encourage it in all posts. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality
[FairfieldLife] Re: Human ancestors may have mated with chimps
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great post! I love this stuff. I think there is also evidence of Homo Sapien mating with Neanderthal back in the day. Early man was such a stud! I hear that after the second glass of Chardonnay, chimp chicks are a done deal! Try a banana daqueri. They go ape. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'War- What Is It Good For?'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: In a message dated 5/31/06 8:19:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, babajii_99@ writes: Enlightened leadership is the only way out. But if the leadership is only a reflection of the collective consciousness, then you've got a real problem. In order to have enlightened leadership, you're going to have to have an enlightened society first. Huh, that's a good point! I've never heard that raised before. It seems so obvious now that you mention it. Self-evident? haha While I like the notion of leadership is only a reflection of the collective consciousness, in newly energized Kurtzian sensibilities, thats an idea, perhaps someday testable -- though that would be a challenge -- but it is neither fact nor a good theory that can make valid predictions. Is it true? How do you know it would be true? What would the kids be like if Paul Kurtz married Byron Katie? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Memorial Day Message
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But (a) that was not what you said to start with; and (b) running away to France does not absolve you of that responsibility. Where does he pay his taxes? Of what country is he a citizen? US. But he pays his taxes in France. I'm a Canadian citzen who pays his taxes not in Canada but the US. Not so relevant an example. So, Billie, I am absolved of all U.S. responsibilities? The US is fairly unique in that it imposes universal taxation on its citizens regardless of where they reside. A US citizen living in France, or Timbucktu, still is liable for US taxes. There are two loopholes. First if they pay taxes in their resident country, these can often be used to ofset any US tax liabilities. Second, if you stay outside of the US for most of any given tax year (its somthing like 48 weeks) then you have your first 80,000 sheltered from US taxes (but not local taxes). Most countries are like what Shemp describes, different than the US. Citizens of most countries residing in another, do not need to pay taxes of their citizen country. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'War- What Is It Good For?'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: In a message dated 5/31/06 8:19:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, babajii_99@ writes: Enlightened leadership is the only way out. But if the leadership is only a reflection of the collective consciousness, then you've got a real problem. In order to have enlightened leadership, you're going to have to have an enlightened society first. Huh, that's a good point! I've never heard that raised before. It seems so obvious now that you mention it. Self-evident? haha I was making a joke -- referencing past discussion about things self-evident. A joke not directed to you, but all of us. We all take things as self-evident when upon reflection, we realize they may or may not be true. I don't think I said self-evident. I think I said obvious. I never said, or meant to imply that you did. Sorry if you inferred it. I may add layers of explanatory text next time to make it clearer. While I like the notion of leadership is only a reflection of the collective consciousness, in newly energized Kurtzian sensibilities, thats an idea, perhaps someday testable -- though that would be a challenge -- but it is neither fact nor a good theory that can make valid predictions. Is it true? How do you know it would be true? Er, did you read what I was commenting on? Did you actually read my comment? The above has nothing to do with your comment. It has to do with Dixons. And my comment is just an _expression_ of my take on a premise often stated here about leadership and collective C. While I did read your comment, I was not commenting on it. I was not aggreeing or disagreeing with you. I was expressing an independent thought I had. Not all posts are about you. Though we all make that mistaken inference sometimes -- all comments refers to our posts. I could post the disclaimer this is a geneal comment not directed at anyone or their posts... but that would get tedious. I was referring to what MDixon pointed out, that the TMO concepts of enlightened leadership, on the one hand, and leadership that reflects the consciousness of the people, on the other hand, don't seem to mesh very well. In other words, they can't both be true. Fine. And I was expressing another thought, totally independent of yours. What would the kids be like if Paul Kurtz married Byron Katie? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'War- What Is It Good For?'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: Before assuming a poster is responding to your comments, perhaps pause before posting your new response, and consider if there are other possibilities. No, I think I'll just continue to assume that most posters have the courtesy not to respond to someone's post when they aren't commenting on it. Ok. Well I aplogize if you feel my post in question was discourteous. (You did not say that directly but it was implied above) While discourtesy had nothing to do with my intentions, its good feedback and eye-opening when some find things in ones writing that were not intended. I find writing improves in proportion to the number of different views and takes on the same words, from a diverse readerhsip, that one can see from. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Enlightened Leaders
While not directly responding to any particular post or poster, much of the discussion appears to be premised on the assumption that enlightenment in-itself is a strongly positive characteristic desirable in a leader. And perhaps some feel that enlightenement in-itself would be sufficient to make anyone a great political leader. I question such assumptions. First, some who claim enlightenement, make a case that consciousness awake to itself has nothing to do with behavior, good or bad. And the later is still quite possible. Second, this view is different than MMY's who hold in enlightenment, all action is accord with the laws of nature, life suppporting. etc. This concept may be behind the call for enlightened leadership. But This is a supposition, a hypothesis that is hard to fully test. Thus enlightened leadership with all action is accord with the laws of nature, being life suppporting etc may be just a nice myth. Third, effective political leadership usually requires many diverse qualities, experience and training. That much current political leadership is not effective underscores this -- many leaders don't have of the desirable qualities, experience and training that support effective leadership. To assume that an enlightened person without strong leadership qualities, experience and training will be a good leader is a deeply flawed premise. Scary in fact. Personally I can't imagine any good outcome if some, perhaps if any, of those claiming enlightenement were to become governor or president. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe it's another chicken or egg connundrum... but I think if we go down a scale I'm sure we can find variousa historical cases of an unenlightened population experiencing a political shift from oppressive rule to a more benign one, without much change happening inbetween in the collective consciousness.. Maybe the Collective Karma is the key player here? Also I'd rather think an enlightened leader - even in the army - can lead by INSPIRING followers to new moral and practical achievements, not merely reflecting the lowest common denominator.. such as when slavery was abolished in spite of overwhelming contrary interests and forces etc. If one had to wait for an enlightened society as a precondition, who'd need the enlightened leader anyway - every individual would be sovreign invincible... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- authfriend wrote: the TMO concepts of enlightened leadership, on the one hand, and leadership that reflects the consciousness of the people, on the other hand, don't seem to mesh very well. In other words, they can't both be true. I feel a little foolish to admit I'd never noticed this conflict before. It's funny! Maybe, in the TMO worldview, enlightened people are liberated from ties to collective consciousness, just as they're liberated in the sense of no longer having their consciousness bound in ignorance of its true nature. Still, that doesn't help with governance, because one cannot simply order people to do what they're not really committed to doing. (Stalin had ways to make it work, and Maharishi seems to have some success, but they're special cases.) So an enlightened leader might say, Let's forgive the terrorists, but the people would say, Screw that, I want blood. And the enlightened leader would have a problem. I had a conversation about this topic of orders versus persuasion with an Army major in my acquaintance. I said, It seems to me that in the Army, of all places, you could just say, 'Do this,' and it would get done. He said, Well, you could, but officers who work that way don't advance very far. He said subordinates will only do the minimum required to comply with the order, which isn't enough for real success in any endeavor short of maybe digging a latrine. Or they could do what Krishna advised Arjuna to do. Forgive them, then kill them. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Swami Sivananda defines CC
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for posting this. Although your title is somewhat disingenuous, given the statement within the text that states: I am not seeing why the Saint Sivananda is disingenuous. Perhaps there is someconfusion in his words, whereby two possibleinterpretatons are possibe: 1) IT is undescribable -- that means IT is not describable at all. So I'll contradict my self and describe some of it -- just to confuse the ignorant. OR, 2) ITs undescribable -- that means no one description can describe it fully or comprehensively. So I'll describe some of it -- and also tell people that there is even more to IT. To me, #2 seems a lot more consistent and reasonable. Assuming #1, appears to me to be pretty limited, maybe even silly. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Swami Sivananda defines CC
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Thanks for posting this. Although your title is somewhat disingenuous, given the statement within the text that states: I am not seeing why the Saint Sivananda is disingenuous. I was referring to Vaj's title of the post, not the saint dude's... I don't think Vaj was intentionally being disingenuous (giving a false appearance of simple frankness), just noting that what the saint dude said was descriptive, vs definitive. In causual conversation, I find people often interchange define and describe. As far as casual use goes, if a distinction is made, perhaps some appear to use describe as more a limited set of characteristics compared define which may imply a more exhasutive list of characteristics. Is this the distinction you had in mind? You use the word definitive, which IMO, has a much sharper meaning, a higher standard, than define -- the word Vaj used. Though of course they have the same root. Many words have the same root but have different connotations. Following are some definitions of definitive -- though these definitions are not definitive. authoritative: of recognized authority or excellence; supplying or being a final or conclusive settlement; such as a definitive verdict; a determinate answer to the problem I don't see where Vaj said or implied the article was definitive. Rather that it defined jivanmukta. Perhaps the milder describe would have been more apt. The practical question from all of this is: Do you believe that Sivananda's attributes that he used to describe jivanmukta, while neither comprehensive or definitive, was correct as far as it went? In other words, do you feel, Sivanada provided description of some attributes of jivanmukta that are not characteristic of jivanmukta? That is, was Sivananda mistaken in his attributes? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Sri Swami Sivananda Discusses Attributes of JivanMukta
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Hi, I am unsure why you are asking such, for the criterion for recognizing such a Jivanmukta is clearly spelled out by the saint dude: Only a Jivammukta can know a Jivanmukta. He should have stopped there IMO, or with the state- ment about how defining the state was not possible. He didn't. >From the first sentence, Sivananda began talking about attributes and describing (for want of a better word, defining) jivanmukta -- the very title of his article. About 2/3 of the way through his 200 lines or so, S. takes three lines to points out some qualifications or limitations of his words. He then spends the rest of the 200 lines discussing more attributes of JM. If he were to stop there, he would have already spent 2/3 of the article describing attributes of JM. If S, skipped that, and only wrote the three lines of qualifications, then it would have been a short article indeed. Regarding S.'s three lines qualifying his extensive discussion of the attributes of a JM, as I mentioned to Jim, perhaps for some there is some confusion in S.'s words, whereby two possible interpretatons are possible: 1) IT is undescribable -- that means IT is not describable at all. So the 2/3 of the article up to this point should be taken as some sort of joke. Perhaps crazy wisdom. And then the following, closing 1/3 of the article should also be taken as a joke. Which he adds, after the qualificaion, just to play with our heads. Or just to confuse the ignorant. OR, 2) ITs undescribable -- that means no one description can describe it fully or comprehensively. So S describes some of it -- and also tells people that there is EVEN more to IT. To me, #2 seems a lot more consistent and reasonable. Assuming #1, appears to me to be pretty limited, maybe even silly. S. didn't seem like an insane, or crazy wisdom sort of guy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Swami Sivananda defines CC
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: A while back, in a similar discussion someone (possibly new_morning) asked someone (possibly you) to define the attributes of enlightenment. That was me. That was Jim. That was not the question. I simply asked, of the 14 or so attributes of enlightenement that MMY had used over time, which did he experience. Quite a different thing than asking Jim out of the blue -- that is, without any reference point, to define the attributes of enlightenment. Funnny how things morph in ones mind over time. At the time, I interjected: I define enlighten- ment as having all of the combined attributes that every sentient being in the universe has ever personified or been able to imagine. I still believe that to be true. As far as I can tell, creation *is* enlightenment. Non- enlightenment does not exist. Therefore, any attribute that can exist in creation can coexist with enlightenment, and be one of the attributes of enlightenment. Anyone can use any words they like, but clealry your enightenment has a vastly different set of attributes than MMY or Sivananda. Given such many meaning words, I think they have a quite limited value as words and labels. And often spawn confusion among those using the label one way (without clarification) and others understanding it in another way (without questioning). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
