Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Hi Nina Spencer, I agree w/ Michelle about trying some Reglan or Pepcid maybe some fluids. That might be enough to make the difference. Are you on the Feline Assisted Feeding group @ yahoogroups? They may have some suggestions, too. I'm pulling for Spencer will be keeping you both in my prayers. Yvonne In a message dated 10/9/2006 11:14:42 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Guys,I can't make up my mind about Spencer. He's been on the dex shots since 9/7. I started to half his dose eod on Sat. It doesn't seemed to have had any negative effect. If it wasn't for the fact that he's all but stopped eating, I would think he was on his way to recovery. He's so emaciated now. He continues to enjoy life, he does things that are not at all in line with someone that is dying. He has decided that the roof of our outside habitat is the perfect place to get away from it all and somehow he scales the 8 foot fence to climb up there. The first day he did it I helped him down, figuring he wouldn't be able to do it himself. I was wrong. I haven't seen him do it, but he gets up and down on his own. He's active during the night and his eyes are bright. He's not hiding, he's not sleeping excessively, when he sees me approach he meows hello to me, if only he would eat! I've tried assit feeding him. He stresses out and won't swallow. He acts like he's interested in food, sometimes he'll take a couple of bites, then he makes a face like the food is his enemy, like it makes his stomach hurt to eat. It doesn't seem like he's not eating because he's preparing to die, it's like it hurts to eat, so he won't eat.Bruce thinks I should leave him alone, that I shouldn't bring him back to the vet. He thinks that I'll only be making the time he has left miserable to do so. I just don't know what to do. When I ask Spencer about going to the vet to see if they can help, I swear I hear him say NO! No more vets! I don't know if this is wishful thinking on my part, but I keep wanting to save him. We never had a diffinative diagnosis... I hate the idea of him slowly starving to death. I hate the idea of pts before he's ready. I hate the idea of bringing him to the vet and putting him through the poking and proding. I just don't know what to do.Thanks for listening,Nina
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Nina, I am really sorry. This is the hardest thing in the world. Michelle
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Nina I just read the entire group listing! I am sooo sorry about Spencer and I dont have any experience with the sickness part. Pokemon died from lyphomia but I didn't even know she had it!! She got sick and in a short time was gone. Then again I thought she was a kitten and she was 6-7 yrs old. She was a stray i foundAnyways..I am holding you and Spencer in my heart and prayers. My God its so hard to read about Spencer. Poor little thing. But Nina Spencer loves you! That's why he came back to you his mommy and that's why he is still here. Our cats have there special connection with us! I dont know what I would do if Crackers was in Spencers situation. I would follow my heart! Good luck in the battle and Bless you guys. Kayte and Crackers "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.."
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Nina, I am so sorry to hear about Spencer. I am praying that he will start eating again. I know when some of my babies won't eat I will get a rotisserie chicken from the grocery store and sometimes they will eat that. I know it may not help with Spencer. Both of you are in my prayers. Cindy Reasoner --- Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, I can't make up my mind about Spencer. He's been on the dex shots since 9/7. I started to half his dose eod on Sat. It doesn't seemed to have had any negative effect. If it wasn't for the fact that he's all but stopped eating, I would think he was on his way to recovery. He's so emaciated now. He continues to enjoy life, he does things that are not at all in line with someone that is dying. He has decided that the roof of our outside habitat is the perfect place to get away from it all and somehow he scales the 8 foot fence to climb up there. The first day he did it I helped him down, figuring he wouldn't be able to do it himself. I was wrong. I haven't seen him do it, but he gets up and down on his own. He's active during the night and his eyes are bright. He's not hiding, he's not sleeping excessively, when he sees me approach he meows hello to me, if only he would eat! I've tried assit feeding him. He stresses out and won't swallow. He acts like he's interested in food, sometimes he'll take a couple of bites, then he makes a face like the food is his enemy, like it makes his stomach hurt to eat. It doesn't seem like he's not eating because he's preparing to die, it's like it hurts to eat, so he won't eat. Bruce thinks I should leave him alone, that I shouldn't bring him back to the vet. He thinks that I'll only be making the time he has left miserable to do so. I just don't know what to do. When I ask Spencer about going to the vet to see if they can help, I swear I hear him say NO! No more vets! I don't know if this is wishful thinking on my part, but I keep wanting to save him. We never had a diffinative diagnosis... I hate the idea of him slowly starving to death. I hate the idea of pts before he's ready. I hate the idea of bringing him to the vet and putting him through the poking and proding. I just don't know what to do. Thanks for listening, Nina __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Sounds very much like pancreatitis, this is exactly how Bailey acted, very uncomfortable when I fed him. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Spencer has never been diagnosed with cancer. It is suspected but has never been confirmed, it could be many things going on with him, I personally would take him to the vet. His symptoms of not wanting to eat are exactly what Bailey was going thorough and I will always wonder if his undiagnosed and untreated pancreatitis turned into cancer. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Too much pepcid also causes stomach upset and can be hard on the kidney's (learned this from the CRF group I'm on). Fred who does have stomach upset and was vomiting foamy stuff, gets a 1/4 tablet a day and most CRF kitties start out on 1/4 EOD, the least amount you need to use to solve the problem the better. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Steriods will help any kind of inflammation not just inflammation from cancer. They also help many other conditions. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Pepcid has never helped my cats in these situations either. Watch for side effects or worsened appetite with the pepcid.Think of it like this.. I feel sick at my stomach. I drink pepto bismol to help, but instead I throw up. ugh. tBelinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Too much pepcid also causes stomach upset and can be hard on the kidney's (learned this from the CRF group I'm on). Fred who does have stomach upset and was vomiting foamy stuff, gets a 1/4 tablet a day and most CRF kitties start out on 1/4 EOD, the least amount you need to use to solve the problem the better.-- Belindahappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kittieshttp://bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.comBMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
The pepcid did help Fred thankfully, he was not eating good and after starting it his appetite is better, he has gained back the weight he lost. Now his phosphorus is high so tonight I started him on binders, that should also help his tummy feel better, and tomorrow I should get the cafarate I ordered and hopefully take care of any tummy ulcers he may have. Now if I can just get him to not be such a grouch about getting his fluids ...:( -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Hi Nina, You know Spencer best, and I know you will make the right decision for him. That being said, if Spencer was my cat, I'd take him to the vet. He'll only be poked and prodded for a few minutes. I don't think one vet visit will make all his remaining time on earth miserable. Then again, my vet is so gentle most of the time they don't know what is happening and don't mind it so much. I wish I could give shots without pain! There are lots and lots of tests I don't particularly want to have as I get older, so I have to make myself. On 10/9/06, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys,I can't make up my mind about Spencer.He's been on the dex shots since9/7.I started to half his dose eod on Sat.It doesn't seemed to have had any negative effect.If it wasn't for the fact that he's all butstopped eating, I would think he was on his way to recovery.He's soemaciated now.He continues to enjoy life, he does things that are not at all in line with someone that is dying.He has decided that the roofof our outside habitat is the perfect place to get away from it all andsomehow he scales the 8 foot fence to climb up there.The first day he did it I helped him down, figuring he wouldn't be able to do ithimself.I was wrong.I haven't seen him do it, but he gets up anddown on his own.He's active during the night and his eyes are bright.He's not hiding, he's not sleeping excessively, when he sees me approach he meows hello to me, if only he would eat!I've tried assit feedinghim.He stresses out and won't swallow.He acts like he's interestedin food, sometimes he'll take a couple of bites, then he makes a face like the food is his enemy, like it makes his stomach hurt to eat.Itdoesn't seem like he's not eating because he's preparing to die, it'slike it hurts to eat, so he won't eat.Bruce thinks I should leave him alone, that I shouldn't bring him back to the vet.He thinks that I'll only be making the time he has leftmiserable to do so.I just don't know what to do.When I ask Spencerabout going to the vet to see if they can help, I swear I hear him say NO!No more vets!I don't know if this is wishful thinking on my part,but I keep wanting to save him.We never had a diffinativediagnosis...I hate the idea of him slowly starving to death.I hatethe idea of pts before he's ready.I hate the idea of bringing him to the vet and putting him through the poking and proding.I just don'tknow what to do.Thanks for listening,Nina-- Vist the Austin Siamese Rescue store and save a kitty life! http://www.cafepress.com/austinsiamesehttp://astore.amazon.com/austinsiamese-20
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
I can only tell you that when the Royal Princess Kitty Katt's cancers spread to the point that we knew treatment would make her miserable the treatments stopped...and she very plainly told me and 6 animal communicators that she wanted no more vets. Period. End of subject. And I stopped traveling with her--she hated traveling. Quality of life, as defined by the cat, is so much more important than length. Kitty left this world on her own. Her hatred of vets was so great I would not even take her. I had arranged for one to come to the house if she could not leave on her own so I would not torture her by putting her in a car. May you and your family--especially Spencer--have peace. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: Another vet visit for Spencer? Hi Guys, I can't make up my mind about Spencer. He's been on the dex shots since 9/7. I started to half his dose eod on Sat. It doesn't seemed to have had any negative effect. If it wasn't for the fact that he's all but stopped eating, I would think he was on his way to recovery. He's so emaciated now. He continues to enjoy life, he does things that are not at all in line with someone that is dying. He has decided that the roof of our outside habitat is the perfect place to get away from it all and somehow he scales the 8 foot fence to climb up there. The first day he did it I helped him down, figuring he wouldn't be able to do it himself. I was wrong. I haven't seen him do it, but he gets up and down on his own. He's active during the night and his eyes are bright. He's not hiding, he's not sleeping excessively, when he sees me approach he meows hello to me, if only he would eat! I've tried assit feeding him. He stresses out and won't swallow. He acts like he's interested in food, sometimes he'll take a couple of bites, then he makes a face like the food is his enemy, like it makes his stomach hurt to eat. It doesn't seem like he's not eating because he's preparing to die, it's like it hurts to eat, so he won't eat. Bruce thinks I should leave him alone, that I shouldn't bring him back to the vet. He thinks that I'll only be making the time he has left miserable to do so. I just don't know what to do. When I ask Spencer about going to the vet to see if they can help, I swear I hear him say NO! No more vets! I don't know if this is wishful thinking on my part, but I keep wanting to save him. We never had a diffinative diagnosis... I hate the idea of him slowly starving to death. I hate the idea of pts before he's ready. I hate the idea of bringing him to the vet and putting him through the poking and proding. I just don't know what to do. Thanks for listening, Nina
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Hey Nina, Have you tried the transdermal cyproheptadine to encourage his appetite? I am so sorry little Spencer is not eating well. Prayers going out to him. :) Wendy --- Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, I can't make up my mind about Spencer. He's been on the dex shots since 9/7. I started to half his dose eod on Sat. It doesn't seemed to have had any negative effect. If it wasn't for the fact that he's all but stopped eating, I would think he was on his way to recovery. He's so emaciated now. He continues to enjoy life, he does things that are not at all in line with someone that is dying. He has decided that the roof of our outside habitat is the perfect place to get away from it all and somehow he scales the 8 foot fence to climb up there. The first day he did it I helped him down, figuring he wouldn't be able to do it himself. I was wrong. I haven't seen him do it, but he gets up and down on his own. He's active during the night and his eyes are bright. He's not hiding, he's not sleeping excessively, when he sees me approach he meows hello to me, if only he would eat! I've tried assit feeding him. He stresses out and won't swallow. He acts like he's interested in food, sometimes he'll take a couple of bites, then he makes a face like the food is his enemy, like it makes his stomach hurt to eat. It doesn't seem like he's not eating because he's preparing to die, it's like it hurts to eat, so he won't eat. Bruce thinks I should leave him alone, that I shouldn't bring him back to the vet. He thinks that I'll only be making the time he has left miserable to do so. I just don't know what to do. When I ask Spencer about going to the vet to see if they can help, I swear I hear him say NO! No more vets! I don't know if this is wishful thinking on my part, but I keep wanting to save him. We never had a diffinative diagnosis... I hate the idea of him slowly starving to death. I hate the idea of pts before he's ready. I hate the idea of bringing him to the vet and putting him through the poking and proding. I just don't know what to do. Thanks for listening, Nina __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
I have been using it once a day. I don't think it's that he doesn't have an appetite, I think he's associating stomach upset with eating. Thank you for the suggestion and your prayers, Nina wendy wrote: Hey Nina, Have you tried the transdermal cyproheptadine to encourage his appetite? I am so sorry little Spencer is not eating well. Prayers going out to him. :) Wendy
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Hi Kelley, Thanks for the vote of confidence. I wish I felt as certain that I am making the right decisions for him. I just left a not so clear message on my vet's voice mail asking for her advice. I'm leaning towards taking him in. He's going to starve to death if I don't and then I'll always wonder if there was something else that could have been done to help him through this. I think I'll call my vet's office back and see when the soonest appointment opening is, I can always cancel it if I change my mind. Bless it, I feel as schitzoid as our little Matilda! Nina Kelley Saveika wrote: Hi Nina, You know Spencer best, and I know you will make the right decision for him. That being said, if Spencer was my cat, I'd take him to the vet. He'll only be poked and prodded for a few minutes. I don't think one vet visit will make all his remaining time on earth miserable. Then again, my vet is so gentle most of the time they don't know what is happening and don't mind it so much. I wish I could give shots without pain! There are lots and lots of tests I don't particularly want to have as I get older, so I have to make myself.
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
I would at least up his dex to what it was at before you cut it eod. I might even up it more than that. Have you tried periactin with him? Or reglan or pepcid for nausea? I would fool around with all of these things and try to get his symptoms under control. The only thing a vet can do for him absent chemo is to increase his steroids or to combine the dex shots with a depo shot, and to prescribe things to stimulate appetite and control nausea. If you have those things at home, I don't see the point of going to the vet for them. You know the dosages, probably. Also, have you tried giving him fluids? The only reason I would bring him in is 1) if you think the vet might increase or add steroids, 2) if you want to try chemo, or 3) if you need the meds listed above to control symptoms. I do not see what else a vet would do, and your vet would probably just recommend pts. Michelle
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
I wouldn't have a problem with the decision if I were sure that what was going on with Spencer was indeed terminal. I can't shake the feeling that he has the opportunity to get better. I don't know if that's because of who he is, that he's determined to live every day to the fullest, or because he actually does have the chance at recovery. My perceptions could very well be clouded with my desire for him to stay with me as well. I also know that if you ask most children, (Hell, if you ask me!), Do you want to go to the doctor?, the answer would be NO! I don't know if the vets would have any treatments to suggest, let alone if they would make Spencer miserable. I only know that if he doesn't get some food into him, no matter how good he's acting otherwise, he's going to die. I'm hoping there is some way to help his stomach upset, (if that's what's causing him not to eat). I asked about a feeding tube on the message I just left for the vet. I wouldn't even be thinking of that if I didn't believe there was a chance to pull him out of this. I don't know, this guy is already such a miracle. I already thought he was dead that day he went missing. The sound of the clock ticking is thundering in my ears! Nina Marylyn wrote: I can only tell you that when the Royal Princess Kitty Katt's cancers spread to the point that we knew treatment would make her miserable the treatments stopped...and she very plainly told me and 6 animal communicators that she wanted no more vets. Period. End of subject. And I stopped traveling with her--she hated traveling. Quality of life, as defined by the cat, is so much more important than length. Kitty left this world on her own. Her hatred of vets was so great I would not even take her. I had arranged for one to come to the house if she could not leave on her own so I would not torture her by putting her in a car. May you and your family--especially Spencer--have peace.
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Nina, he is not going to get better. If you thought he might, you should try chemo, as that is really the only thing with a chance at giving him long-term remission. Otherwise, he might if lucky live a few months, but cats with lymphoma do not just go on living for years without treatment. Steroids do help, but they can not kill the cancer off entirely. If it was not lymphoma he has, the steroids would not even be helping as much as they are, so I have little doubt that that is what he has. The vet will not agree with you that he has a chance to pull through this. I do not think you will be happy with what the vet says to you. I also do not think a feeding tube is a good idea unless you are going to do chemo, because he is not going to make it a long time anyway without it. I would up the steroids. Michelle
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
I know this is a stretch... but could he be eating at a neighbors house? We feed all the neighbors cats... in the neighborhood and at our property. I get told by people all the time What are you feeding those guys! They obviously like it better here than what I feed them!. So... is that a possibility? Leslie =^..^= On 10/9/06, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't have a problem with the decision if I were sure that what wasgoing on with Spencer was indeed terminal.I can't shake the feeling that he has the opportunity to get better.I don't know if that'sbecause of who he is, that he's determined to live every day to thefullest, or because he actually does have the chance at recovery.Myperceptions could very well be clouded with my desire for him to stay with me as well.I also know that if you ask most children, (Hell, ifyou ask me!), Do you want to go to the doctor?, the answer would beNO!I don't know if the vets would have any treatments to suggest, let alone if they would make Spencer miserable.I only know that if hedoesn't get some food into him, no matter how good he's actingotherwise, he's going to die.I'm hoping there is some way to help hisstomach upset, (if that's what's causing him not to eat).I asked about a feeding tube on the message I just left for the vet.I wouldn't evenbe thinking of that if I didn't believe there was a chance to pull himout of this.I don't know, this guy is already such a miracle.I already thought he was dead that day he went missing.The sound of theclock ticking is thundering in my ears!NinaMarylyn wrote: I can only tell you that when the Royal Princess Kitty Katt's cancers spread to the point that we knew treatment would make her miserable the treatments stopped...and she very plainly told me and 6 animal communicators that she wanted no more vets.Period.End of subject.And I stopped traveling with her--she hated traveling. Quality of life, as defined by the cat, is so much more important than length.Kitty left this world on her own.Her hatred of vets was so great I would not even take her.I had arranged for one to come to the house if she could not leave on her own so I would not torture her by putting her in a car. May you and your family--especially Spencer--have peace. -- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded.That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
I have given him a couple of doses of Reglan. I could try using it more and see if it makes any difference in his symptoms. I haven't given him Pepcid. What's Periactin? I'll go Google it. I guess in the back of my mind I was hoping the vets would examine him and exclaim, Hey! This cat doesn't have cancer! Oh, we were so wrong! Here, give him this 2x daily and he'll be all better in no time. I know that the dex can increase appetite, but I also read that it can cause stomach upset. And I remember those awful stories from someone on the list about their kitty's skin coming off in patches after prolonged use. That's why I started testing how he'd react to lowering the dose. If we were wrong about him having lymphoma and the steroid has done it's job with controlling whatever inflammation was present, then I'd like to wean him off of it. He used to have pain in his upper abdomen when I'd pick him up, that seems to be gone now. I just don't know Michelle. I know your first suspicions lean toward cancer, mine always veer away from it. I just went to check on him and his fur is starting to take on that dying cat look. You know, that oily, stiff sort of look. Talk about the roller coaster effect! I'm going to go out of my mind if I don't figure out what is going on with him and make a determination about what to do about it. Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would at least up his dex to what it was at before you cut it eod. I might even up it more than that. Have you tried periactin with him? Or reglan or pepcid for nausea? I would fool around with all of these things and try to get his symptoms under control. The only thing a vet can do for him absent chemo is to increase his steroids or to combine the dex shots with a depo shot, and to prescribe things to stimulate appetite and control nausea. If you have those things at home, I don't see the point of going to the vet for them. You know the dosages, probably. Also, have you tried giving him fluids? The only reason I would bring him in is 1) if you think the vet might increase or add steroids, 2) if you want to try chemo, or 3) if you need the meds listed above to control symptoms. I do not see what else a vet would do, and your vet would probably just recommend pts. Michelle
RE: Another vet visit for Spencer?
You can get pepcid injectable version so that you won't have to give him orally. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 11:33 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Another vet visit for Spencer? I have given him a couple of doses of Reglan. I could try using it more and see if it makes any difference in his symptoms. I haven't given him Pepcid. What's Periactin? I'll go Google it. I guess in the back of my mind I was hoping the vets would examine him and exclaim, Hey! This cat doesn't have cancer! Oh, we were so wrong! Here, give him this 2x daily and he'll be all better in no time. I know that the dex can increase appetite, but I also read that it can cause stomach upset. And I remember those awful stories from someone on the list about their kitty's skin coming off in patches after prolonged use. That's why I started testing how he'd react to lowering the dose. If we were wrong about him having lymphoma and the steroid has done it's job with controlling whatever inflammation was present, then I'd like to wean him off of it. He used to have pain in his upper abdomen when I'd pick him up, that seems to be gone now. I just don't know Michelle. I know your first suspicions lean toward cancer, mine always veer away from it. I just went to check on him and his fur is starting to take on that dying cat look. You know, that oily, stiff sort of look. Talk about the roller coaster effect! I'm going to go out of my mind if I don't figure out what is going on with him and make a determination about what to do about it. Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would at least up his dex to what it was at before you cut it eod. I might even up it more than that. Have you tried periactin with him? Or reglan or pepcid for nausea? I would fool around with all of these things and try to get his symptoms under control. The only thing a vet can do for him absent chemo is to increase his steroids or to combine the dex shots with a depo shot, and to prescribe things to stimulate appetite and control nausea. If you have those things at home, I don't see the point of going to the vet for them. You know the dosages, probably. Also, have you tried giving him fluids? The only reason I would bring him in is 1) if you think the vet might increase or add steroids, 2) if you want to try chemo, or 3) if you need the meds listed above to control symptoms. I do not see what else a vet would do, and your vet would probably just recommend pts. Michelle
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Nina, Take a breath. Look out the window. Just pause. The next step is right there, your foot is raised to take it, and you're doing amazing ballet in pivoting to all angles before deciding where to put it and that's okay. You have a hunch and a hope and you're looking for support of it. I can imagine myself easily in your shoes - I wear the same indecisive size. If you are prepared to hear confirmation of what Michelle is saying, and if getting that confirmation will help (if only in the feeling less schizoid sense), then what do you have to lose in going to the vet? She agrees with you (oh happy day!) or you get a confidence vote in that the current course of treatment is still the best, even in light of his progress. You're right, no living creature wants to go to the doctor, so that's not a very reliable test to make this decision on. How stressed does Spence get in going to the vet? If his stress is low to moderate, then what Kelley says makes sense, that discomfort is brief and temporary. If he really freaks, then it doesn't seem worth the risk.You don't want to look back and wonder what if so if getting something ruled out or in is a stronger pull than waiting and seeing, go to your vet. You're doing good, even if it feels woefully the opposite. :) Leslie From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: Another vet visit for Spencer? I have given him a couple of doses of Reglan.I could try using it moreand see if it makes any difference in his symptoms.I haven't given himPepcid.What's Periactin?I'll go Google it.I guess in the back of my mind I was hoping the vets would examine him and exclaim, Hey!This cat doesn't have cancer!Oh, we were sowrong!Here, give him this 2x daily and he'll be all better in no time.I know that the dex can increase appetite, but I also read that it can cause stomach upset.And I remember those awful stories from someone onthe list about their kitty's skin coming off in patches after prolongeduse.That's why I started testing how he'd react to lowering the dose. If we were wrong about him having lymphoma and the steroid has done it'sjob with controlling whatever inflammation was present, then I'd like towean him off of it.He used to have pain in his upper abdomen when I'd pick him up, that seems to be gone now.I just don't know Michelle.Iknow your first suspicions lean toward cancer, mine always veer awayfrom it.I just went to check on him and his fur is starting to take on that dying cat look.You know, that oily, stiff sort of look.Talk aboutthe roller coaster effect!I'm going to go out of my mind if I don'tfigure out what is going on with him and make a determination about what to do about it.Nina
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Periactin is cyproheptadine, which it seems like you are already giving him. You're right-- high doses of steroids can sometimes cause stomach upset. I have not seen it, so had not thought of it. Pepcid and/or carafate would be what helps with that. I would start giving him 1/2 pepcid once a day and also put him on reglan regularly, and also give him fluids. If it is nausea those should help. At this point just not having food is probably making him feel sick, and being on a lot of steroids on top of no food might in fact be giving him an ulcer. You could ask your vet about carafate. I know I jump to lymphoma all the time, but that is also what your vet thinks he has, and the fact that he has responded so much to the dex does make it more probable. I know you are going out of your mind. I have been there, and I ache for you. I just could not bear the thought of you bringing him to the vet to ask for a feeding tube being convinced he is going to make it, and having to deal with the vet acting like you are crazy and recommending pts right away, which is what I fear would happen. Would he really be a nightmare to force-feed? Some cats who hate syringes are ok with you putting a gob of food on the back of their tongue, and sometimes just getting some food will make them start eating some. Are you offering fancy feast and liver shake and sour cream and deli slices, etc.? I am so sorry the two of you are going through this. It is true sometimes about the skin. My cat Buddy after being on steroids for about 3 months for either lymphoma or FIP started scratching where I had put the needle in for fluids and scratched off a big chunk of skin that left a gaping hole that then continued to itch more. we could not get it to heal at all and it stayed like that until he died. Some cats do get thin skin from months on steroids. But the steroids are also the only thing that kept him going for 3 months. And it did not happen to any of my others who were on for just as long. I wondered if I gave him an infection or something with a needle, as if it would slip out during fluids I would just put it back in. Now I change the needle. Michelle
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Thank you Leslie. Your description of the indecisive ballet is right on! I'm breathing now. What you say about making a visit to the vet makes sense too. I think I'm going to take Michelle's advice and start Spencer on Pepcid and regular doses of Reglan and see if that helps him begin to eat more. I promised him I wouldn't try assist feeding him again, but I may do that too. I truly don't know what I'd do without you guys, Nina Leslie wrote: Nina, Take a breath. Look out the window. Just pause. The next step is right there, your foot is raised to take it, and you're doing amazing ballet in pivoting to all angles before deciding where to put it and that's okay. You have a hunch and a hope and you're looking for support of it. I can imagine myself easily in your shoes - I wear the same indecisive size. If you are prepared to hear confirmation of what Michelle is saying, and if getting that confirmation will help (if only in the feeling less schizoid sense), then what do you have to lose in going to the vet? She agrees with you (oh happy day!) or you get a confidence vote in that the current course of treatment is still the best, even in light of his progress. You're right, no living creature wants to go to the doctor, so that's not a very reliable test to make this decision on. How stressed does Spence get in going to the vet? If his stress is low to moderate, then what Kelley says makes sense, that discomfort is brief and temporary. If he really freaks, then it doesn't seem worth the risk. You don't want to look back and wonder what if so if getting something ruled out or in is a stronger pull than waiting and seeing, go to your vet. You're doing good, even if it feels woefully the opposite. :) Leslie
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Nina, if he lets you pill him, he might let you put a gob of baby food or A/D on the back of his tongue, and it might be less stressful than normal assist feeding. Lucy really hardly minds me doing that at all-- I do it with her raw food when she is not feeling well. I just put a gob in like a pill and close her mouth and she swallows it. Michelle In a message dated 10/9/2006 2:12:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thank you Leslie. Your description of the indecisive ballet is right on! I'm breathing now. What you say about making a visit to the vet makes sense too. I think I'm going to take Michelle's advice and start Spencer on Pepcid and regular doses of Reglan and see if that helps him begin to eat more. I promised him I wouldn't try assist feeding him again, but I may do that too. I truly don't know what I'd do without you guys,Nina
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
My dearest Michelle, It made my heart contract to think I might have upset you in any way. All you've done is been kind enough to point out the obvious with the probability of Spencer having lymphoma. I can't tell you how much better your guidance and support has made me feel and how much I appreciate all you do for me and all of us on the list. Just so we're clear, I don't in any way think of you as a nay sayer! I intend to start Spencer on Pepcid and regular Reglan doses, (2x a day?), to see if it helps his stomach upset. I'll ask my vet about the possibility of an ulcer and if she thinks Carafate might help him. You are probably right, I am shaking my head at the thought of a feeding tube for someone in Spencer's condition, so I can just imagine what my vet's reaction will be. That's probably why I haven't received a call back yet, they already think I'm nuts, this latest voice mail is, I'm sure, doing nothing to dissuade them from that supposition. Much love and thanks, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Periactin is cyproheptadine, which it seems like you are already giving him. You're right-- high doses of steroids can sometimes cause stomach upset. I have not seen it, so had not thought of it. Pepcid and/or carafate would be what helps with that. I would start giving him 1/2 pepcid once a day and also put him on reglan regularly, and also give him fluids. If it is nausea those should help. At this point just not having food is probably making him feel sick, and being on a lot of steroids on top of no food might in fact be giving him an ulcer. You could ask your vet about carafate. I know I jump to lymphoma all the time, but that is also what your vet thinks he has, and the fact that he has responded so much to the dex does make it more probable. I know you are going out of your mind. I have been there, and I ache for you. I just could not bear the thought of you bringing him to the vet to ask for a feeding tube being convinced he is going to make it, and having to deal with the vet acting like you are crazy and recommending pts right away, which is what I fear would happen. Would he really be a nightmare to force-feed? Some cats who hate syringes are ok with you putting a gob of food on the back of their tongue, and sometimes just getting some food will make them start eating some. Are you offering fancy feast and liver shake and sour cream and deli slices, etc.? I am so sorry the two of you are going through this. It is true sometimes about the skin. My cat Buddy after being on steroids for about 3 months for either lymphoma or FIP started scratching where I had put the needle in for fluids and scratched off a big chunk of skin that left a gaping hole that then continued to itch more. we could not get it to heal at all and it stayed like that until he died. Some cats do get thin skin from months on steroids. But the steroids are also the only thing that kept him going for 3 months. And it did not happen to any of my others who were on for just as long. I wondered if I gave him an infection or something with a needle, as if it would slip out during fluids I would just put it back in. Now I change the needle. Michelle
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Thanks I'll try assist feeding him that way. I've got some raw chicken thawing. I thought he might be more receptive to something completely different than what I've been offering him. Blessings to you my dear, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nina, if he lets you pill him, he might let you put a gob of baby food or A/D on the back of his tongue, and it might be less stressful than normal assist feeding. Lucy really hardly minds me doing that at all-- I do it with her raw food when she is not feeling well. I just put a gob in like a pill and close her mouth and she swallows it. Michelle
RE: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Nina I know that this is a small percentage but I have a friend whose cat has had lymphoma for over 2 years now and she is very healthy now still - she decided not to give any conventional treatment at all but give raw meat diet with natural supplement ---and she has had for two years since diagnosed I can find out what she gives to her kitty its pretty amazing isnt it? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 11:20 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Another vet visit for Spencer? Nina, he is not going to get better. If you thought he might, you should try chemo, as that is really the only thing with a chance at giving him long-term remission. Otherwise, he might if lucky live a few months, but cats with lymphoma do not just go on living for years without treatment. Steroids do help, but they can not kill the cancer off entirely. If it was not lymphoma he has, the steroids would not even be helping as much as they are, so I have little doubt that that is what he has. The vet will not agree with you that he has a chance to pull through this. I do not think you will be happy with what the vet says to you. I also do not think a feeding tube is a good idea unless you are going to do chemo, because he is not going to make it a long time anyway without it. I would up the steroids. Michelle
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
You didn't upset me. I was afraid I had upset you, and was just trying to explain why I had said what I said. Please don't worry about it. Give him lots of pets and kisses, Michelle In a message dated 10/9/2006 2:26:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My dearest Michelle,It made my heart contract to think I might have upset you in any way. All you've done is been kind enough to point out the obvious with the probability of Spencer having lymphoma. I can't tell you how much better your guidance and support has made me feel and how much I appreciate all you do for me and all of us on the list. Just so we're clear, I don't in any way think of you as a nay sayer!
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
I would guess that if it is actually lymphoma it is small-cell lymphoma, which can grow very slowly, as opposed to large-cell lymphoma, which most of our cats get. Michelle In a message dated 10/9/2006 6:48:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Nina – I know that this is a small percentage but I have a friend whose cat has had lymphoma for over 2 years now – and she is very healthy now still - she decided not to give any conventional treatment at all – but give raw meat diet with natural supplement ---and she has had for two years since diagnosed – I can find out what she gives to her kitty – it’s pretty amazing isn’t it?
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Nina,You and Spencer are in my thoughts and prayers. It's so hard to know what to do. I wish I had some advice, but you know him best.tNina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have given him a couple of doses of Reglan. I could try using it more and see if it makes any difference in his symptoms. I haven't given him Pepcid. What's Periactin? I'll go Google it.I guess in the back of my mind I was hoping the vets would examine him and exclaim, "Hey! This cat doesn't have cancer! Oh, we were so wrong! Here, give him this 2x daily and he'll be all better in no time." I know that the dex can increase appetite, but I also read that it can cause stomach upset. And I remember those awful stories from someone on the list about their kitty's skin coming off in patches after prolonged use. That's why I started testing how he'd react to lowering the dose. If we were wrong about him having lymphoma and the steroid has done it's job with controlling whatever inflammation was present, then I'd like to wean him off of it. He used to have pain in his upper abdomen when I'd pick him up, that seems to be gone now. I just don't know Michelle. I know your first suspicions lean toward cancer, mine always veer away from it. I just went to check on him and his fur is starting to take on that dying cat look. You know, that oily, stiff sort of look. Talk about the roller coaster effect! I'm going to go out of my mind if I don't figure out what is going on with him and make a determination about what to do about it. Nina[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would at least up his dex to what it was at before you cut it eod. I might even up it more than that. Have you tried periactin with him? Or reglan or pepcid for nausea? I would fool around with all of these things and try to get his symptoms under control. The only thing a vet can do for him absent chemo is to increase his steroids or to combine the dex shots with a depo shot, and to prescribe things to stimulate appetite and control nausea. If you have those things at home, I don't see the point of going to the vet for them. You know the dosages, probably. Also, have you tried giving him fluids? The only reason I would bring him in is 1) if you think the vet might increase or add steroids, 2) if you want to try chemo, or 3) if you need the meds listed above to control symptoms. I do not see what else a vet would do, and your vet would probably just recommend pts. Michelle
Re: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Thanks Tonya, and everyone else. I did give him .5 of a Pepcid this afternoon. This evening, a couple of hours ago, I gave him his shot of dex and smeared his ear with the appetite stimulant. His breath is more shallow than it has been since I began using the dex and he's oh so tired. He's still alert when I lay down next to him, he still seems to enjoy my presence, but I don't know how much longer he'll be with me. I haven't seen him take a bite of food since early this morning when he ate just a couple of kibble. I tried Michelle's method with the raw chicken, I even got a couple of bites down him, but it was pretty much like pilling him. If he could, he'd spit it right back out. I gave up and told him my intention was not to torture him. Just a little bit ago I gave in and gently massaged some transition fe into his fur. I've been telling him it's okay to leave his failing body behind. That I love him and know there are so many souls waiting to happily greet him on the other side. No more pain, no more fear. I closed my eyes and saw him whole and strong and youthful again, bounding through a field of wild flowers chasing mice with my Angel friend Trouble. The vet never called me back. It's just as well. Isn't amazing how quickly our hopes can change? Just this morning I was still praying for miracles, now I'm praying for a peaceful transition without having to make that dreaded trip to the vet. Nina catatonya wrote: Nina, You and Spencer are in my thoughts and prayers. It's so hard to know what to do. I wish I had some advice, but you know him best. t
RE: Another vet visit for Spencer?
Nina, I'm so sorry your dear boy is fading. If it's time for him to go, he'll go knowing he was deeply loved. What more could any kitty, or anybody, ask? Give Spencer a hug from me, and take one for yourself. Diane R.
