Re: [Finale] Is upgrading worth it?

[A-NO-NE Music]

I definitely think it's worth a lot.
I am just having too much fun with it.

I too was never able to compose with computer before in my life.  I
always needed to sit down in front of piano with pencil and paper, but I
jut wrote second movement of the one I wrote yesterday.


This is not much of a composition, but rather improvisational since I
spent only 4 hours from the start.

What I want to show you here is that this score has only notes(!).  No
expression nor articulation.  There are only 3 trills (which isn't
coming out as I wrote, however), and that's it.

FinMac2006 HP is doing great job with FinGPO here.

Did I say I am having too much fun?
Darn, I have a couple projects past due!

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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[Finale] Expressions.

[keith helgesen]

Very basic question! 

 

I’m on Fin Win 2001d  (Yeah- OK,  I know, I
know should update – but I prefer it to the later toggle type simple(?)
entry of 2003 onwards!)

 

Actually I have 2004 here on disc- tried it- couldn’t
handle all the dangly bits!

 

I probably can’t use it now- (or could I?)

 

Anyway- my question-

 

Having created “continue” as an _expression_, and
assigned c as the metatool, I find I cannot make it enter on “this stave
only” without the full;  double click, select, dialogue box, this
stave only, OK, routine.

 

Wish I could use for instance,-   ctrl/shift meta-
or something to acheive this! Or am I missing something?

 

Cheers Keith in OZ

 

 

Keith Helgesen.

Director of Music, Canberra City Band.

Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0439-620587

Private Mob 0417-042171

 








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Re: [Finale] Is upgrading worth it?

[Eric Dannewitz]

I'd stay put with 2004. Though 2005 was a better update than 2006 has 
been. 2006 is really slow on OS X. GPO is a bomb right now. The auto 
melisma feature is a plug-in. I've had Finale 2006 crash on me today. 
2004 and 2005 never crashed.


I'd save your $$$. This update is not worth it right now. MakeMusic 
needs to deal with a couple of bugs and performance items before I'd 
recommend it to people.


James E. Bailey wrote:

Okay, so I rarely post, I mostly use the list as a resource for the 
illimitable wisdom, but I'm thinking of upgrading my Finale: I'm 
currently on FinMac2k4. I upgraded to 2004 because of the native osx 
support, but reading last year about the pros and cons of 2005, I 
decided against it, and thought, well, I guess I'll upgrade alternate 
years, but reading the posts about 2006, I'm wondering if it's even 
worth it. 2004 does everything I need it to do, perhaps I've adapted 
to the software, but I've only ever had one problem and that was 
beaming over rests. So, for someone who rarely uses MIDI playback, (so 
I don't bother with GPO, soundfonts, soft synth, human playback, or 
anything else), I don't compose on the computer, so I don't need any 
of those kinds of tools advertised for 2006. So is there anything so 
super-special that I can't live without that would make it worth the 
upgrade and the unused features (I alrady don't use hyperscribe). I 
must say, the auto melisma looks really nice: I do a lot of vocal 
music, but is that all? I can live without that.



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[Finale] Is upgrading worth it?

[James E. Bailey]

Okay, so I rarely post, I mostly use the list as a resource for the 
illimitable wisdom, but I'm thinking of upgrading my Finale: I'm 
currently on FinMac2k4. I upgraded to 2004 because of the native osx 
support, but reading last year about the pros and cons of 2005, I 
decided against it, and thought, well, I guess I'll upgrade alternate 
years, but reading the posts about 2006, I'm wondering if it's even 
worth it. 2004 does everything I need it to do, perhaps I've adapted to 
the software, but I've only ever had one problem and that was beaming 
over rests. So, for someone who rarely uses MIDI playback, (so I don't 
bother with GPO, soundfonts, soft synth, human playback, or anything 
else), I don't compose on the computer, so I don't need any of those 
kinds of tools advertised for 2006. So is there anything so 
super-special that I can't live without that would make it worth the 
upgrade and the unused features (I alrady don't use hyperscribe). I 
must say, the auto melisma looks really nice: I do a lot of vocal 
music, but is that all? I can live without that.



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Re: [Finale] TWO QUESTIONS

[Darcy James Argue]

On 02 Aug 2005, at 12:07 AM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:

1.  When I use the "Select an Ensemble"  option in the Wizard Setup, 
select a given ensemble, and open the score up, if I go to Hyperscribe 
and click a measure,  a percussive metronome sound begins immediately, 
as promised. However, when  I just select some random instruments,  it 
doesn't seem to provide any metronome sound, no matter what I do. In 
my best Ross Perot,  Texan Twang ... WHY?


"Select an ensemble" is not compatible with GPO.  If you use "Select an 
ensemble," Finale only sets up the score for SoftSynth Playback.


People really need to email MakeMusic about the metronome question.  I 
never use this feature and can't answer the question.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [Finale] Is it just me? [OT]

[David W. Fenton]

On 1 Aug 2005 at 21:04, Jim Williams wrote:

> Ok... I can't help myself any longer.  I've got to comment on this. 
> My apologies to the list for the off-topic nature of this post.
> 
> David, here is your original statement:
> 
> >Well, for one, DVD drive support on Windows, especially WinXP, is
> >decidedly problematic. It's not provided by the OS natively, but by
> >add-in software.
> >
> >WinXP, in particular, has similar problems with CD-R/RW drives, ones
> >which are inherent in the OS, and not correctable.
> >
> >Optical drives with WinXP are very problematic.
> 
> And,
> 
> >There are fundamental problems in WinXP's optical drive support that
> >make WinXP different from previous versions of Windows. There are
> >Microsoft Knowledge Base articles documenting many of these problems.
> 
> Now, if you are confining your observations to Windows and native cd
> *writing* support, then I would support you.  It has some severe
> limitations in WinXP, and of course, is not implemented natively in
> earlier versions of Windows. . . .

But it was more versatile in earlier versions of Windows with the 
exact same software supporting the exact same hardware. In the case 
of the client who "downgraded" from WinXP to Win2K (the CD-R problem 
was only one of many difficulties with WinXP that this client's setup 
revealed), the CD-R drive now works perfectly under Win2K using the 
same software as was installed under WinXP (though, obviously, the 
version appropriate to the different OS version).

Same hardware.

Same software.

Different Windows version.

Works on one Windows version and not on the other.

Diagnosisis: problem with the version of Windows.

And the manufacturer agreed -- they've seen the same problem.

> . . . But really, there are many reliable and
> robust third-party writing solutions (i.e. Nero, Easy CD Creator,
> etc.) that work just fine in XP and earlier versions.  Most of these
> programs come with a new PC, and are normally included in all but OEM
> hardware if the drive is purchased separately. . ..

And don't always work as promised.

Which was the point of my warning about buying an add-on DVD drive.

And I admit, I didn't clearly identify that I was providing two 
distinct and completely different warnings about the two classes of 
optical drives.

> . . . As for *reading*
> support, I cannot agree with you that there are *fundamental* problems
> with this - please do quote the knowledge base articles.

I made two separate, but not clearly distinguished, claims:

1. writing to CD-R/RW is problematic.

2. Windows does not natively support DVD drives.

My example for #1 was my experience with multiple clients who have 
had problems with OEM-installed CD-R/RW drives used in their new 
WinXP machines in precisely the same fashion as OEM-installed CD-R/RW 
drives in previous versions of Windows (in one case, Win2K, in the 
other Win95).

My example for the second was a warning about driver support for 
after-market installation of optical drives -- it doesn't always work 
the way you expense.

In both cases, much time was spent on the phone trying to resolve the 
problems with the vendor's tech support. After much escalation in the 
first of the three cases of CD-R/RW problems, I finally got to techs 
who acknowledged that WinXP does not support the same kind of write 
access on CD-R/RW drives as previous versions of Windows, and that 
support for CD-R/RW drives in WinXP is riddled with numerous problems 
that are aspects of a central weakness in this aspect of WinXP's 
interaction with this hardware. In the case of the DVD drive, we 
didn't pursue it beyond finding that the OEM-supplied drivers could 
not be made to work with Win2K (despite the vendor's claim that the 
drivers should, in fact, work). The client had no desire to use the 
DVD drive, so decided not to spend the money on rectifying the 
problem.

Both problems are aspects of fundamental issues with the WinXP 
interface with optical drives. 

> Next, there has been a discussion of how a backup script of yours 
that
> makes use of the command-line XCOPY is now unreliable in Windows XP. 
> This may very well be true, however, it in no way supports your
> blanket statement that optical drives are *problematic* in Windows XP.
>  They may be in your specific situation, but I believe it is accurate
> to suggest that 99% of Windows users do not run custom backup scripts
> using DOS batch files and XCOPY.  Most Windows users I know both burn
> and read CDs and DVDs with 100% reliability.

If they don't use XCOPY, then they have to use software that is not 
easily scriptable, or they have to buy additional software.

> When you are called upon to distinguish between a general problem with
> optical drives, and a much more specific problem with one backup
> script, you respond:
> 
> >Well, for reading DVD drives you still have to have appropriate
> >drivers. The client of mine who "downgraded" from WinXP to Win2K is
> >now unable to us

[Finale] TWO QUESTIONS

[Dean M. Estabrook]

1.  When I use the "Select an Ensemble"  option in the Wizard Setup, 
select a given ensemble, and open the score up, if I go to Hyperscribe 
and click a measure,  a percussive metronome sound begins immediately, 
as promised. However, when  I just select some random instruments,  it 
doesn't seem to provide any metronome sound, no matter what I do. In my 
best Ross Perot,  Texan Twang ... WHY?


2.  Reading the User's Manual,  it mentions a series of interactive 
Tutorials ... how does one open them?


Dean

As a newly diagnosed diabetic,  self denial is now my ally,  exercise  
my master.


Dean M. Estabrook

Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer


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Re: [Finale] Is it just me? [OT]

[Jim Williams]

Ok... I can't help myself any longer.  I've got to comment on this.  My 
apologies to the list for the off-topic nature of this post.


David, here is your original statement:

Well, for one, DVD drive support on Windows, especially WinXP, is decidedly 
problematic. It's not provided by the OS natively, but by add-in software.


WinXP, in particular, has similar problems with CD-R/RW drives, ones which 
are inherent in the OS, and not correctable.


Optical drives with WinXP are very problematic.


And,

There are fundamental problems in WinXP's optical drive support that make 
WinXP different from previous versions of Windows. There are Microsoft 
Knowledge Base articles documenting many of these problems.


Now, if you are confining your observations to Windows and native cd 
*writing* support, then I would support you.  It has some severe limitations 
in WinXP, and of course, is not implemented natively in earlier versions of 
Windows.  But really, there are many reliable and robust third-party writing 
solutions (i.e. Nero, Easy CD Creator, etc.) that work just fine in XP and 
earlier versions.  Most of these programs come with a new PC, and are 
normally included in all but OEM hardware if the drive is purchased 
separately.  As for *reading* support, I cannot agree with you that there 
are *fundamental* problems with this - please do quote the knowledge base 
articles.


Next, there has been a discussion of how a backup script of yours that makes 
use of the command-line XCOPY is now unreliable in Windows XP.  This may 
very well be true, however, it in no way supports your blanket statement 
that optical drives are *problematic* in Windows XP.  They may be in your 
specific situation, but I believe it is accurate to suggest that 99% of 
Windows users do not run custom backup scripts using DOS batch files and 
XCOPY.  Most Windows users I know both burn and read CDs and DVDs with 100% 
reliability.


When you are called upon to distinguish between a general problem with 
optical drives, and a much more specific problem with one backup script, you 
respond:


Well, for reading DVD drives you still have to have appropriate drivers. 
The client of mine who "downgraded" from WinXP to Win2K is now unable to 
use their DVD drive because the Win2K drivers Dell provides for the drive 
don't work with it.


I do not understand the need for third-party device drivers for optical 
drives.  I have worked in the computer industry for over 15 years, managing 
corporate networks, doing Windows programming, building custom PCs and 
providing repair and consulting services.  I have *never* installed a 
third-party driver for an optical drive in WinXP or Win2K.  They are 
sometimes required for Win9x, but the last I ever recall doing something of 
that sort was a basic CD-ROM driver for DOS 6.2.  I even went over to the 
Dell website and searched for 'DVD Driver', which turned up nothing for 
Windows XP or 2000.  I can only suspect that you are using an older machine 
with a BIOS that does not properly understand optical drivers.  This is 
somewhat confirmed by your statement:


This is not a WinXP problem, of course. It's a problem with the lack of 
real support for DVDs in the OS (and, as Hiro points out, in the BIOS, 
which on the PC supports only the IDE interface, not the specific quirks of 
optical drives).


I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'only the IDE interface'.  How is your 
optical driver connected?  Is it SCSI?  That, of course, is another animal 
entirely.  However, it is still not a *Windows* problem, but instead a 
hardware one.  And any modern BIOS of the last few years will properly and 
correctly identify a DVD or CD-ROM.


If, on the other hand, you try to use methods with the optical drive that 
have worked for several past versions of Windows (why would you want to 
change your backup methods when you simply got a new computer?), you may 
very well encounter major problems that lead to a locked up PC that won't 
shut down, that corrupts CD-R media and that can lead to blue screens 
crashes of WinXP.


What other methods have caused problems for you, besides your backup 
script(s)?


Look, David.  I don't doubt that you have found a problem in Windows.  There 
are many.  But surely you must admit that all that seems to be at issue here 
is that you are using an old backup script that worked for you in earlier 
versions of Windows, but is now unreliable in WinXP.  I do not dispute this. 
 However, to turn that into a suggestion that consumers should not purchase 
DVD or CD-ROM drives because Windows support is problematic, perplexes me.  
How do you make this leap?


Read my message again -- I said CD-R. I was using XCOPY to make backups. 
Indeed, that's the way I've been doing it with many of my clients since the 
days before CD-R drives were common and they were using Zip drives for 
backup. When CD-R was a cheap option, my clients started buying machines 
with that in them and we used the 

Re: [Finale] Kontakt Player Mac OS X Update 1.1.8.3

[John Bell]

On 2 Aug 2005, at 04:37, Simon Troup wrote:Rather than trying to expand it using stuffit (which doesn't work for me either), double click on it - it's a zip file (if it's the one I donwloaded) and can be expanded by the finder just by double clicking.  Just in case that doesn't work for you, try this:  http://www.digitalmusicart.com/GPO_OSX_Updater.app.sit.bin  I'll leave the file up for a bit in case anyone else has the same problem. Thanks Simon, but unfortunately I still get the same error message whether  I double-click or try to use Stuffit. What I had hoped was that someone might send me the unstuffed, unzipped file. But thanks anyway for trying to help.John___
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Re: [Finale] Kontakt Player Mac OS X Update 1.1.8.3

[Simon Troup]

> I'd be very grateful if someone could email me this update, since I  
> have not been able to download it from the NI site.
> 
> John

Rather than trying to expand it using stuffit (which doesn't work for me 
either), double click on it - it's a zip file (if it's the one I donwloaded) 
and can be expanded by the finder just by double clicking.

Just in case that doesn't work for you, try this:

http://www.digitalmusicart.com/GPO_OSX_Updater.app.sit.bin

I'll leave the file up for a bit in case anyone else has the same problem.

(... it's 4-30am and I'm off to bed ... if that link doesn't work straight away 
it's possible it hasn't finished uploading, give it 10 minutes and try again!)

Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

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[Finale] Kontakt Player Mac OS X Update 1.1.8.3

[John Bell]

I'd be very grateful if someone could email me this update, since I  
have not been able to download it from the NI site.


John
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Re: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard

[Simon Troup]

> Now I got it showed up, it begs to this question:
> What is the benefit of using Full GPO instead of FinGPO?

There's a far greater range of instruments available in full GPO. In the 
percussion section for example, there are only 7 or 8 in FinGPO but over 20 in 
Full GPO.

Still, it must be said, the FinGPO set is pretty handy as it is, I think you 
proved that Hiro, with the piece you posted the other day.

Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

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Re: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard

[John Bell]

On 2 Aug 2005, at 03:40, A-NO-NE Music wrote:This usually means you don't have up-to-date stuffit.  What version areyou using? I just updated from 9.0.1 to 9.0.2 of Stuffit but I still can't open the Kontakt Player updater. I still get an error code.John___
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Re: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard

[A-NO-NE Music]

John Bell / 2005/08/02 / 10:34 PM wrote:

>tuffit says it has  
>damaged content.


This usually means you don't have up-to-date stuffit.  What version are
you using?


-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard

[A-NO-NE Music]

I found it.
You need to run the GPO updater _after_ FinMac2006 is already installed,
and have to enable "Notation" option under the custom install.

Now I got it showed up, it begs to this question:
What is the benefit of using Full GPO instead of FinGPO?


-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard

[John Bell]

On 2 Aug 2005, at 03:00, Simon Troup wrote:I have GPO full showing in the setup wizard on my Mac:  http://www.digitalmusicart.com/Picture1.jpg  As far as I know, all I did was go to the NI site and update to the latest version of the Kontakt player. I didn't go to GPO site at all.Well, I also went to the NI site to update to the latest version of Kontakt Player, but the file won't open -- Stuffit says it has damaged content. I've emailed them but not yet had a reply.John___
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Re: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard

[Simon Troup]

> Allen,
> 
> I have installed the latest GPO update and GPO Full still does not show 
> up in the Setup Wizard --- at least, not on Mac.  I don't think it's 
> showing up for any Mac users.

Hey Darcy

I have GPO full showing in the setup wizard on my Mac:

http://www.digitalmusicart.com/Picture1.jpg

As far as I know, all I did was go to the NI site and update to the latest 
version of the Kontakt player. I didn't go to GPO site at all.

Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

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Re: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard

[Chuck Israels]

On Aug 1, 2005, at 2:07 PM, Fisher, Allen wrote:


In order for GPO/Kontact to show up in the output list in the Setup
Wizard, you need to install it. It will place the necessary files  
in the

correct places for Finale to see it as a VST/AU

If you have a version of GPO that you got *before* Finale 2006, you  
will
need to update it. I do not know all the details on the update,  
however.




That was too hasty a post, - sorry.  I don't know whether or not I  
can find it in the setup wizard yet.  More later.


Chuck

Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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Re: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard

[Chuck Israels]

On Aug 1, 2005, at 2:07 PM, Fisher, Allen wrote:In order for GPO/Kontact to show up in the output list in the SetupWizard, you need to install it. It will place the necessary files in thecorrect places for Finale to see it as a VST/AUIf you have a version of GPO that you got *before* Finale 2006, you willneed to update it. I do not know all the details on the update, however.I did find that I could access the full GPO by going through various midi setup menus - though it took me a while and, as usual, I can't remember exactly what I did.  Now that's a help, isn't it!Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com  ___
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Re: [Finale] Re: TAN: Brain music

[Adriel]

Actually I would vote for a combo. Musicians and acousticians have no clue
about how the brain works and vice versa.

-A



on 8/1/05 7:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> In a message dated 8/1/2005 7:27:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
>> Without knowing more details, I also instinctively question what seem to be
>> totally arbitrary criteria for transforming brain waves into "music."
> 
> That was precisely my concern, John. That the frequency mix in the brain
> waves themselves falls within an extended definition of music that goes back
> at 
> least to Charles Ives is beyond dispute.
> 
> But these people are heavily into the transcription business, almost
> certainly to provide a familiar cultural context for their test subjects. In
> any case, 
> we're not talking about the original sounds anymore. My question is: do you
> want to trust neuropsychiatrists to do this kind of thing, or would you rather
> hand the task over to composers and acousticians at a place like CCRMA? I
> assume that members on this board would vote for the latter.
> 
> --David Lawrence
> 

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[Finale] Opening files - asks to save?!

[Simon Troup]

If I open a file in MacFin 2006 - and I don't do anything to it, just print it 
or something, when I go to close it, I get a dialog box asking if I want to 
save it!

This is infuriating and interferes with my batch processing using quickeys. 

Anyone know what this is or if there's a way around it?

Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

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Re: [Finale] Re: TAN: Brain music

[Bunnydowns]

In a message dated 8/1/2005 7:27:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Without knowing more details, I also instinctively question what seem to be totally arbitrary criteria for transforming brain waves into "music."  

That was precisely my concern, John. That the frequency mix in the brain waves themselves falls within an extended definition of music that goes back at least to Charles Ives is beyond dispute.

But these people are heavily into the transcription business, almost certainly to provide a familiar cultural context for their test subjects. In any case, we're not talking about the original sounds anymore. My question is: do you want to trust neuropsychiatrists to do this kind of thing, or would you rather hand the task over to composers and acousticians at a place like CCRMA? I assume that members on this board would vote for the latter.

--David Lawrence
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Re: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard

[John Bell]

On 1 Aug 2005, at 22:34, Darcy James Argue wrote:I have installed the latest GPO update  Did this include Kontakt player version 1.1.8.3? If so, where did you get it?John___
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Re: [Finale] TempoTap (was GPO/non-GPO workflow...)

[Dean M. Estabrook]

Rick:

Ok, I got to the point with a piano score where I could make anything 
happen I chose ... tempo wise, anyway,  but when I played it back, none 
of the changes were incorporated. Are they supposed to be?


Dean

On Aug 1, 2005, at 7:43 AM, Rich Caldwell wrote:



After I got used to it, I found TempoTap works fairly well, and was 
something I've wanted for a long time.


Rich

On Jul 31, 2005, at 6:59 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:

Ah, I meant to ask,  how, exactly, does the tempo/track Tap function 
work? I.e., what does one do to make it happen?


Dean


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As a newly diagnosed diabetic,  self denial is now my ally,  exercise  
my master.


Dean M. Estabrook

Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer



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Re: [Finale] More horsepower ,,, it's always more horsepower

[Dean M. Estabrook]

Good info, thanks. I would not have thought about the 1 DIMM option.

Dean

On Aug 1, 2005, at 4:07 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:


On 01 Aug 2005, at 6:36 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:


Darcy:

Thanks much for the confirmation.  While on the topic, (1) Would 
there be a huge operating difference between 1,8Ghz and 2Ghz?  It 
would save a few bucks.


Not huge, but I think it's worth the $200 for the 2 GHz model.


 (2) Have any idea how much a firewire cable might cost?


$14 from the Apple store, possibly cheaper elsewhere.

 I'm planning on 1 GB Ram, at the moment ... might see how it works 
and add more later if needed.


If you do that, make sure you get the 1 DIMM option, leaving the other 
slot free for upgrades later.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Mass Edit stops working

[Dean M. Estabrook]

Not yet, but there's always tomorrow.

Dean

On Aug 1, 2005, at 4:00 PM, Jeff Tanner wrote:


Hi Everyone

Has anybody had the Mass Edit tool stop working in 2006, or any other 
tool?  I've had the Mass Edit tool stop working completely several 
times (it still highlights, but doesn't do anything) and on one 
occasion, Finale got confused and had the menus for both the Mass Edit 
and Expression tools showing at the same time (and the tools didn't 
work).


Jeff
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Re: [Finale] More horsepower ,,, it's always more horsepower

[Darcy James Argue]

On 01 Aug 2005, at 6:36 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:


Darcy:

Thanks much for the confirmation.  While on the topic, (1) Would there 
be a huge operating difference between 1,8Ghz and 2Ghz?  It would save 
a few bucks.


Not huge, but I think it's worth the $200 for the 2 GHz model.


 (2) Have any idea how much a firewire cable might cost?


$14 from the Apple store, possibly cheaper elsewhere.

 I'm planning on 1 GB Ram, at the moment ... might see how it works 
and add more later if needed.


If you do that, make sure you get the 1 DIMM option, leaving the other 
slot free for upgrades later.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

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[Finale] Mass Edit stops working

[Jeff Tanner]

Hi Everyone

Has anybody had the Mass Edit tool stop working in 2006, or any other  
tool?  I've had the Mass Edit tool stop working completely several  
times (it still highlights, but doesn't do anything) and on one  
occasion, Finale got confused and had the menus for both the Mass  
Edit and Expression tools showing at the same time (and the tools  
didn't work).


Jeff
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Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO

[Dean M. Estabrook]

I'd buy in too.  IF, AND ONLY IF, the vade mecum included a step by 
step explanation of how to add any percussion instrument  I want to a 
FinGPO orchestra or band set up, and have it play back correctly.   At 
present, I don't have a clue.


Dean

I would be willing to pay your for such a book/tutorial/whatever, as 
well.


If you can add any windows/mac discrepancies as well, it would be a 
universally useful add-on.


We pay Tobias and Robert for TGTools and Patterson Plug-ins, I 
certainly will pay you for your expertise.


Even more helpful would be if you include a sample file or two, 
showing us the correct to get a file setup so it can be used with any 
of the three playback methods: Finale/GPO (adding some hints for use 
with full GPO), soundfont playback, external midi playback.


Just a thought, and since your orchestration client has bailed on you, 
you could pick up some needed cash.




--
David H. Bailey
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Re: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard

[Dean M. Estabrook]

Then, how does a Mac user access Full GPO for use in a score?


Dean



Allen,

I have installed the latest GPO update and GPO Full still does not 
show up in the Setup Wizard --- at least, not on Mac.  I don't think 
it's showing up for any Mac users.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



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Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer



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Re: [Finale] More horsepower ,,, it's always more horsepower

[Dean M. Estabrook]

Darcy:

Thanks much for the confirmation.  While on the topic, (1) Would there 
be a huge operating difference between 1,8Ghz and 2Ghz?  It would save 
a few bucks. (2) Have any idea how much a firewire cable might cost? 
I'm planning on 1 GB Ram, at the moment ... might see how it works and 
add more later if needed.


Thanks again,

Dean

On Aug 1, 2005, at 12:21 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:


Hi Dean,

A new G5 iMac would handle GPO in Fin2006 like a dream, provided you 
install a minimum of 1 GB RAM.  (More is better.)


Also make sure you get a FireWire cable, to easily transfer everything 
from your old computer to your new one.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY


On 31 Jul 2005, at 8:40 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:

Ok, as Darcy predicted, my iMac, G3, 600Mhz handles one or two 
instruments fine in 2006, but more than that and I get some popping, 
cracking and or (and I assume this is part of the same problem) a 
dull roaring sound.  So, I'm beginning to feel that siren call to 
upgrade, deep in my loins. As my daughter is still a student at Chico 
State, she can get a discount price on Mac stuff.  Would a new iMac 
G5,  hopefully with a 17" or 20"  screen, with Ram upped to a Gig do 
the trick for running 2006.  I think the processor is 2Ghz.


As opposed to many, I'm still liking the sounds I'm hearing for the 
most part from GPO.


God help me, here we go again ...

Dean

As a newly diagnosed diabetic,  self denial is now my ally,  exercise 
 my master.


Dean M. Estabrook

Retired Church Musician
Composer, Arranger
Adjudicator
Amateur Golfer


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Re: [Finale] Sleeping in?

[Dean M. Estabrook]

Lord, he deserves it.

Dean

On Aug 1, 2005, at 10:36 AM, Andrew Levin wrote:


It appears Darcy is taking the morning off. Good for him!
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[Finale] Finale won't read MIDI file

[Lynn Gold]

I'm running Fin2004c on a Mac under OSX 10.2.

I try to read in a MIDI file, but the file it shows is blank.  Somewhere
during the reading in of the file I see a white box flash on the screen and
then disappear. 

What am I doing wrong, or what do I need to do to make this work?

Thanks,

--Lynn
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Re: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard

[Darcy James Argue]

On 01 Aug 2005, at 5:07 PM, Fisher, Allen wrote:


In order for GPO/Kontact to show up in the output list in the Setup
Wizard, you need to install it. It will place the necessary files in 
the

correct places for Finale to see it as a VST/AU

If you have a version of GPO that you got *before* Finale 2006, you 
will
need to update it. I do not know all the details on the update, 
however.


Allen,

I have installed the latest GPO update and GPO Full still does not show 
up in the Setup Wizard --- at least, not on Mac.  I don't think it's 
showing up for any Mac users.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006 Tiger problem

[Chuck Israels]

Hi Karen et al,

I have spent some hours solving this today and this is what finally  
did it.  Either Finale or Tiger (haven't determined which, but it may  
be the combination of both that causes the problem) doesn't like  
having both Windows and Mac fonts available.  So, by removing all  
Truetype fonts, and the .suit version of the font, and keeping only  
the version without any .extension and the .bmap version, the  
conflict is resolved and everything shows up as expected.


I have learned not to panic about this kind of font issue in OS X.   
They turn up from time to time, and they seem to be possible to solve.


However, the advice below is also correct and useful.

I have written macsupport to let them know how to resolve this, if  
anyone else calls with the problem.


Chuck


On Aug 1, 2005, at 1:53 PM, Karen wrote:


Hi Chuck,

I've found that Finale isn't happy when the fonts appear in both  
User fonts (~/Library/Fonts) and Local fonts (/Library/Fonts)  
Folders (a caveatdon't mess with fonts in the System/Library/ 
Fonts folder!!.)
I've moved my duplicate fonts out of my user fonts folder so that  
they only "live" in the local fonts folder.


Then delete /Library/Caches com.apple.ATS (make sure you have quit  
Finale before you do this) and restart.


Also, which folder are your Bill Duncan fonts in?

Best,

Karen


On Jul 31, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Chuck Israels wrote:


Seems there was a hitch in the font installation during the 2006  
install, and a reinstall of the fonts from the DVD has solved most  
of the problem.  Bill Duncan's fonts, however, are not all there.   
I'm working on this.


Chuck


On Jul 31, 2005, at 8:35 PM, Chuck Israels wrote:




Hi all,

Installed 2006 Mac and then opened a file in 2005b (haven't tried  
2006 yet) and the fonts are all gone awry.  I tried deleting  
Library/Caches com.apple.ATS (though there were other endings to  
the names now attached - and there were three of those),  
restarted, and the problem persists.


I am not panicking yet but sure could use some help.

Thanks.

Chuck


Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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fax (360) 676-6055
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RE: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard

[Fisher, Allen]

In order for GPO/Kontact to show up in the output list in the Setup
Wizard, you need to install it. It will place the necessary files in the
correct places for Finale to see it as a VST/AU

If you have a version of GPO that you got *before* Finale 2006, you will
need to update it. I do not know all the details on the update, however.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Darcy James Argue
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 1:58 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard


On 01 Aug 2005, at 8:42 AM, ronan wrote:

> I've been reading all the posts about the fact that GPO is missing in
> the
> startup wizard of many people's machines.
>
> Some are quite angry about it. I kept wondering what everyone is
> talking
> about, because it is there in my startup Wizard.
>
>  I have three options in the wizard: 1. Full Garritan GPO, 2.
> Softsynths, 3.
> Finale's version of GPO.

Really??? Wow.

> So, my questions are:

> 1)   Is it missing only on Mac's? (I have a PC).

I guess so.

> 2)   Have you installed the patch that was inserted into the 
> Kontakt
> 1.1.8.3 upgrade early last week?

Not sure what you're talking about, but a few days ago I removed GPO 
entirely and reinstalled in from scratch, applying all the latest 
updates from NI and Garritan.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006 MIDI Output : HELP!

[A-NO-NE Music]

Jeff Tanner / 2005/08/01 / 04:17 PM wrote:

>Go to the MIDI Menu, Select MIDI Setup and check the Enable Inter- 
>Application Ports.  Then the other outputs will appear.

Just to be clear (sorry for my English!)
I already have it enabled, or I will not be able to select "Finale 2006
Output" MIDI Setup.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006 MIDI Output : HELP!

[A-NO-NE Music]

Jeff Tanner / 2005/08/01 / 04:17 PM wrote:

>Go to the MIDI Menu, Select MIDI Setup and check the Enable Inter- 
>Application Ports.  Then the other outputs will appear.

Thanks, but I am not talking about "other outputs".  I am trying to have
"Finale 2006 Output" within Finale, as I used to be able to do with
FinMac2005, which I successfully assigned in the Finale MIDI Config to
appear on the Instrument Assignment list so I can have Flute-I output to
"Finale 2006 Output 1-1".

InterApplication MIDI doesn't do anything here since I am stuck before
going out of Finale2006.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006 Tiger problem

[Karen]

Hi Chuck,

I've found that Finale isn't happy when the fonts appear in both User  
fonts (~/Library/Fonts) and Local fonts (/Library/Fonts) Folders (a  
caveatdon't mess with fonts in the System/Library/Fonts folder!!.)
I've moved my duplicate fonts out of my user fonts folder so that  
they only "live" in the local fonts folder.


Then delete /Library/Caches com.apple.ATS (make sure you have quit  
Finale before you do this) and restart.


Also, which folder are your Bill Duncan fonts in?

Best,

Karen


On Jul 31, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Chuck Israels wrote:

Seems there was a hitch in the font installation during the 2006  
install, and a reinstall of the fonts from the DVD has solved most  
of the problem.  Bill Duncan's fonts, however, are not all there.   
I'm working on this.


Chuck


On Jul 31, 2005, at 8:35 PM, Chuck Israels wrote:



Hi all,

Installed 2006 Mac and then opened a file in 2005b (haven't tried  
2006 yet) and the fonts are all gone awry.  I tried deleting  
Library/Caches com.apple.ATS (though there were other endings to  
the names now attached - and there were three of those),  
restarted, and the problem persists.


I am not panicking yet but sure could use some help.

Thanks.

Chuck


Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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fax (360) 676-6055
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Re: [Finale] FinGPO slots/MIDI channels

[dhbailey]

Darcy James Argue wrote:


David, we've been over this before.

If the person is using NotePad, send them an audio demo along with the 
Finale file.




Sure.

--
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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006/GPO : need two playback files

[dhbailey]

Darcy James Argue wrote:
[snip]>
However, if Finale ever introduces a user-editable Human Playback 
dictionary, then you could customize how HP handles expressions for your 
own setup.


That would be wonderful, and very much to be desired.


--
David H. Bailey
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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006 MIDI Output : HELP!

[Jeff Tanner]

Go to the MIDI Menu, Select MIDI Setup and check the Enable Inter- 
Application Ports.  Then the other outputs will appear.


Jeff Tanner
Third Bear Music


On Aug 1, 2005, at 1:18 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote:



I am loosing myself.
Before FinMac2006, I was using other Vi via InterApplication MIDI.

I enable it under FinMac MIDI setup.
There are 4 banks FinMac publishes to CoreMIDI.
Finale 200x Output 1 ~ 4
Which then Finale MIDI output is seen on the other end such as Virtual
Sampler.

This is how I have been using since I don't want to be restricted  
by GPO.


I just realized Instrument List no longer let me assign output to
"Finale 2006 Output".  If I enable IAC Bus, it shows up under the menu
so something has changed with FinMac 2006 to disable this function.

The scary part of this is that I am also no longer able to do this  
with

FinMac2005b.  I tried to fiddle with FinMac2005b MIDI setting which
resulted in a crash.  The crash log suggests OSX, not Finale, itself
crashed at event handler.  Bad.

Can some one confirm if you are still able to assign instrument MIDI
output to "Finale 200x Output 1 ~ 4"?  Is there something I totally
forgot about for some reason?

--

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] Measure expressions & general playback

[James Gilbert]

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, David W. Fenton wrote:

> The downside is that you have to maintain two sets of
> expressions/articulations (printing, non-printing), but that's a
> helluva lot easier than maintaining two separate files!

This is what I thought I'd have to do and was hoping to avoid.

Where do I send a feature request? I would like to see measure attached
expressions with playback that can optionally apply to all midi channels.
Or how about the human playback engine applying a measure attached
expression to apply to all midi channels. Seems like a reasonable and
logical thing to have.

There's a similar discussion I saw on the Finale forum about piano staves
with separate channels for each hand so the guy can pan left/right and how
the human playback automatic pedaling is only being applied to staff 2.
This is a case where it should apply to both staves (which are separate
channels). The general consensus there, as it seems to be here is that we
are stuck adding non-printing expressions to the other staves.

James Gilbert
http://www.jamesgilbertmusic.com/
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Re: [Finale] Measure expressions & general playback

[David W. Fenton]

On 1 Aug 2005 at 15:37, Darcy James Argue wrote:

> If you *don't* have any dynamics that apply to only one staff, you can
> simply assign all three staves to the same MIDI channel.  That way,
> all dynamic markings will affect all staves.

Yes, but that only works as long as you never need independent 
dynamics, which, with an organ piece, is highly unlikely (since each 
of the three staves are likely at some point to be used by completely 
different divisions of the organ).

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] Measure expressions & general playback

[David W. Fenton]

On 1 Aug 2005 at 15:38, dhbailey wrote:

> David W. Fenton wrote:
> 
> > On 1 Aug 2005 at 15:15, dhbailey wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>Since you've got all three staves set to three channels, you need to
> >>place the expression in all three staves for them to work correctly.
> >>
> >>This (to answer someone else's post questioning the need to have one
> >>file for printout and a second copy for playback) is a reason we
> >>sometimes need 2 copies of the score, one for playback (place the
> >>expression in all staves so they all respond properly) and one for
> >>printout (since a human can respond to one instance of an expression
> >>and apply that to both hands and feet).
> > 
> > 
> > You keep saying this over and over again. 
> > 
> > It's perfectly possible to have non-printing expressions that
> > control playback and don't have any effect on the print-out. 
> > 
> > The downside is that you have to maintain two sets of 
> > expressions/articulations (printing, non-printing), but that's a
> > helluva lot easier than maintaining two separate files!
> 
> Mea culpa, you're right. I rarely use non-printing expressions so I
> had forgotten about them for this situation.
> 
> Since I don't use them all that often, can someone tell me if 
> non-printing expression affect music spacing when the spacing options
> are set to avoid collisions with expressions?

I've never had any such problems. Check out the graphics in:

  http://dfenton.com/Sib/

and you'll see onscreen display of non-printing expressions (not 
really readable, but they are setting pan). Compare 
http://dfenton.com/Sib/FoersterX.gif to 
http://dfenton.com/Sib/FoersterX_Finale.gif (the screenshot).

That doesn't really demonstrate the point, but I've never had any 
issues with it. You could easily test it yourself to demonstrate that 
it's not an issue.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] FinGPO slots/MIDI channels

[A-NO-NE Music]

dhbailey / 2005/08/01 / 03:39 PM wrote:

>And if the person is using Notepad to view and playback Finale files? 
>Does that really come with the soundfont player?


Y'know, one globally used GM sound between Mac and Windows is QuickTime,
and that's how I work, since I do against attaching files anything
bigger than 500k.  SMF is small, mp3 is not.


-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] FinGPO slots/MIDI channels

[Darcy James Argue]

David, we've been over this before.

If the person is using NotePad, send them an audio demo along with the 
Finale file.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY


On 01 Aug 2005, at 3:39 PM, dhbailey wrote:


Darcy James Argue wrote:


On 01 Aug 2005, at 3:12 PM, dhbailey wrote:
So we're back to what I was complaining about originally -- you need 
to copies of the score if you want one to be able to play back 
through an external module or synth that only recognizes the 
standard 16 channels of midi.
Yes, that's true.  I'm not sure why you would want to do that, 
though, as it gives you absolutely no control over how the score will 
sound.  And if the person wants it to sound the same on their 
computer as it does on yours, they can use the Finale SoundFont.


And if the person is using Notepad to view and playback Finale files? 
Does that really come with the soundfont player?


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Re: [Finale] Measure expressions & general playback

[Darcy James Argue]

James,

If you *don't* have any dynamics that apply to only one staff, you can 
simply assign all three staves to the same MIDI channel.  That way, all 
dynamic markings will affect all staves.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY


On 01 Aug 2005, at 11:54 AM, James Gilbert wrote:


I think this question applies to just about any more recent version of
Finale. 3-staves of music (organ music), each assigned to a different 
MIDI
channel, same patch assignemnt. The lowest 2 staves have 'display 
measure
expressions' set to off (so only the top stave shows measure 
expressions).

Human playback is turned off.

When I assign a measure expression, assigned to all staves, with 
playback
velocity, it only seems to affect the top stave, not all three staves. 
Why

is this?  Shouldn't a measure assigned expression's playback options
affect all the staves in that measure? If I want different playback
options (velocities)  for each stave, I would use a note attached
expression on each stave.  Right?

In looking at the raw MIDI data (from a save to midi file), the top 
stave
is assigned a velocity of 49 in measure one, but the other two staves 
have
been set to 64. This doesn't make any sense to me. Why aren't all 
staves

assigned a velocity of 49?

I even tried two versions with human playback enabled - one with 
velocity

& continuous data enabled, and the other set to ignore velocity and
continuous data (the expression playback info). Both of those were the
same as the non-human playback (above) except that the third stave 
(which

had lots of sustained notes) started with a velocity of 85. There were
considerable volume (Controller 7) changes in stave 3 - over 50 in the
first 2 measure. There were some volume changes in the other two staves
(that were not present in the non-human playback version), but not very
many. So, it appears that even human playback doesn't set the velocity
based on measure expressions.

What am I doing wrong? How do I get one dynamic expression with 
playback

velocity to affect all three staves (or even 2 staves in piano music).
Yes, organ music often has different dynamics for each stave, but often
you only put one dynamic marking that is good for all staves.

James Gilbert

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Re: [Finale] FinGPO slots/MIDI channels

[dhbailey]

Darcy James Argue wrote:


On 01 Aug 2005, at 3:12 PM, dhbailey wrote:

So we're back to what I was complaining about originally -- you need 
to copies of the score if you want one to be able to play back through 
an external module or synth that only recognizes the standard 16 
channels of midi.



Yes, that's true.  I'm not sure why you would want to do that, though, 
as it gives you absolutely no control over how the score will sound.  
And if the person wants it to sound the same on their computer as it 
does on yours, they can use the Finale SoundFont.




And if the person is using Notepad to view and playback Finale files? 
Does that really come with the soundfont player?


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Re: [Finale] FinGPO slots/MIDI channels

[Darcy James Argue]

On 01 Aug 2005, at 3:32 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote:

This is true only if: (a) your external whatever only recognizes 16 
MIDI channels *and* (b) your piece uses more than 8 but fewer than 16 
channels. And even in this case, you don't really need two scores -- 
to go back and forth you just need to reassign some of the channel 
numbers.


Right.  It's not like this is a difficult change to make.

- Darcy
-
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Re: [Finale] Measure expressions & general playback

[dhbailey]

David W. Fenton wrote:


On 1 Aug 2005 at 15:15, dhbailey wrote:



Since you've got all three staves set to three channels, you need to
place the expression in all three staves for them to work correctly.

This (to answer someone else's post questioning the need to have one
file for printout and a second copy for playback) is a reason we
sometimes need 2 copies of the score, one for playback (place the
expression in all staves so they all respond properly) and one for
printout (since a human can respond to one instance of an expression
and apply that to both hands and feet).



You keep saying this over and over again. 

It's perfectly possible to have non-printing expressions that control 
playback and don't have any effect on the print-out. 

The downside is that you have to maintain two sets of 
expressions/articulations (printing, non-printing), but that's a 
helluva lot easier than maintaining two separate files!




Mea culpa, you're right. I rarely use non-printing expressions so I had 
forgotten about them for this situation.


Since I don't use them all that often, can someone tell me if 
non-printing expression affect music spacing when the spacing options 
are set to avoid collisions with expressions?


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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006/GPO : need two playback files

[Darcy James Argue]

On 01 Aug 2005, at 3:25 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:


On 1 Aug 2005 at 15:12, Darcy James Argue wrote:


That's the point of leaving the expressions undefined -- otherwise,
you *would* need two sets of expressions, one for the Finale
SoundFont, and one for GPO.  But by leaving them undefined, Human
Playback is able to automatically interpret them correctly depending
on which playback method you have selected.


But what does HP do with them for *other* output destinations, GM or
not?


The Finale SoundFont is GM-compatible, so I *think* HP will correctly 
interpret "pizz" and "arco" when sending to any other GM synth or 
soundfont.  (I don't have an external GM synth or GM soundfont to test 
this on, though.)


If you have a non-GM external sound module, then yes, you will need to 
use different expressions for playback via that vs. playback via GPO.  
It's not reasonable for HP to know about the idiosyncrasies of every 
possible external playback device.


However, if Finale ever introduces a user-editable Human Playback 
dictionary, then you could customize how HP handles expressions for 
your own setup.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY




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Re: [Finale] FinGPO slots/MIDI channels

[Aaron Sherber]

At 03:12 PM 08/01/2005, dhbailey wrote:
>Actually, no matter how many instances of GPO you start, the midi
>channels for any single instance are still listed as 1-16.

Yes, but those numbers 1-16 are *relative* to the starting channel 
for each instance. In the first instance, 1-16 means MIDI 1-16. In 
the second instance, 1-16 means MIDI 17-32. That's what I was saying.


>HOWEVER, if you add any staves manually after setting up your score,
>even if you are using GPO playback, the channel in the instrument list
>must be the properly numbered channel (1-128).

Of course.

>The channel menu in the GPO setup (the one with the keyboard) still
>shows that I can select any channel from 1 to 16 or OMNI.  I decided to
>try channel 14.
>
...
>It was only when I set the channel for the tuba line to be channel 30
>(the 14th channel in the second set of 16) that I go the two lines to
>play back appropriately.

Yes, that's the point a few of us have been trying to make for a 
while now. Instance 1 will let you access any 8 channels between 1 
and 16. Instance 2 will let you access any 8 channels between 17 
(which it calls 1) and 32 (which it calls 16). If you have a staff 
set up on MIDI channel 30, you can only access that in the *second* 
instance of GPO (because it's in the range 17-32), and only by 
loading the sample into slot 14 of that instance (because 14+16=30).


>So we're back to what I was complaining about originally -- you need to
>copies of the score if you want one to be able to play back through an
>external module or synth that only recognizes the standard 16 channels
>of midi.

This is true only if: (a) your external whatever only recognizes 16 
MIDI channels *and* (b) your piece uses more than 8 but fewer than 16 
channels. And even in this case, you don't really need two scores -- 
to go back and forth you just need to reassign some of the channel numbers.


>Setting something to be channel 14 in the second instance of GPO does
>nothing, until you get the instrument list to recognize it as channel 30.
>
>So there is communication between GPO and the instrument list, and the
>channel must be correctly set in the instrument list for things to work
>properly.

Well, yes, that's what I've been saying.

Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] FinGPO slots/MIDI channels

[Darcy James Argue]

On 01 Aug 2005, at 3:12 PM, dhbailey wrote:

So we're back to what I was complaining about originally -- you need 
to copies of the score if you want one to be able to play back through 
an external module or synth that only recognizes the standard 16 
channels of midi.


Yes, that's true.  I'm not sure why you would want to do that, though, 
as it gives you absolutely no control over how the score will sound.  
And if the person wants it to sound the same on their computer as it 
does on yours, they can use the Finale SoundFont.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [Finale] Re: TAN: Brain music

[Adriel]

on 8/1/05 11:15 AM, Phil Daley at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> At 8/1/2005 10:26 AM, John Howell wrote:
> 
>> (Of course I still don't understand what "music therapy" is or what
> "music therapists" do!)
> 
> Oh, that brings up a long forgotten assignment in a grad school Writing
> Techniques class wherein I had to write a short treatise on "Music
> Therapy", you know, complete with research notes, bibliography, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> My conclusion - total malarkey ;-)
> 


You mean your paper? lol

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Re: [Finale] Measure expressions & general playback

[David W. Fenton]

On 1 Aug 2005 at 15:15, dhbailey wrote:

> Since you've got all three staves set to three channels, you need to
> place the expression in all three staves for them to work correctly.
> 
> This (to answer someone else's post questioning the need to have one
> file for printout and a second copy for playback) is a reason we
> sometimes need 2 copies of the score, one for playback (place the
> expression in all staves so they all respond properly) and one for
> printout (since a human can respond to one instance of an expression
> and apply that to both hands and feet).

You keep saying this over and over again. 

It's perfectly possible to have non-printing expressions that control 
playback and don't have any effect on the print-out. 

The downside is that you have to maintain two sets of 
expressions/articulations (printing, non-printing), but that's a 
helluva lot easier than maintaining two separate files!

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006/GPO : need two playback files

[David W. Fenton]

On 1 Aug 2005 at 15:12, Darcy James Argue wrote:

> That's the point of leaving the expressions undefined -- otherwise,
> you *would* need two sets of expressions, one for the Finale
> SoundFont, and one for GPO.  But by leaving them undefined, Human
> Playback is able to automatically interpret them correctly depending
> on which playback method you have selected.

But what does HP do with them for *other* output destinations, GM or 
not?

Personally, I'd never use the Finale Soundfont for anything (it's too 
awful), since I have a decent GM synthesizer on my PC's sound card. 
If I wanted to switch back and forth between using my sound card and 
GPO (if my PC could handle it -- it can't), would HP work for the GM 
synthesizer, catching pizz and arco? 

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006/GPO : How the hell do I....?

[Darcy James Argue]

On 01 Aug 2005, at 11:42 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:


Andrew Stiller schrieb:

So what happens if I've got a part that goes down to Bb (as some do)?


Well, I cannot tell you about such Flute parts, but I have a piece 
with a cello part that goes down to A (well, it's a French Bass de 
violon) below the normal C. With the normal, non-notation version of 
GPO it's a nightmare, because this triggers the trill, and for the 
rest of the piece all bass notes are trills. Very funny.


However, I am assuming that the notation version won't have that 
problem, though I haven't tried it (I am currently on a modem line and 
can't possibliy download the newest GPO patch from here).


You are correct.  The unified keyswitches are all well out of the way.  
They all begin on the C two octaves below the lowest C on the piano.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY


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Re: [Finale] Re: TAN: Brain music

[Phil Daley]

At 8/1/2005 03:12 PM, Crystal Premo wrote:

>I can tell you first hand that some music therapists are doing some very
>useful things with autistics and other folk with this sort of impairment.
>With some autistics, music helps them focus and be present, even severely
>autistic individuals.  No cures, though.

At least it sounds like it has possibilities.

When I wrote the paper, 35 years ago, the research was mostly on totally 
deaf people.


Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley



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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006/GPO : How the hell do I....?

[Darcy James Argue]

On 01 Aug 2005, at 10:13 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote:


Darcy:

In GPO Full, these keyswitches are always in the octave immediately 
below the lowest playable note on the instrument, so that they can be 
triggered in real time.  For instance, the lowest note on the GPO 
Full KS flute is B3.  The keyswitch to trigger ordinary playing is a 
major seventh below that (i.e., C3). D3 triggers non vib playing. E3 
triggers fluttertongue playing.


So what happens if I've got a part that goes down to Bb (as some do)?


You will have to have two layers -- a printing layer with the Bb, and 
an invisible playback layer with a B plus a half-step pitch-bend 
expression.  It's a bit of a pain to set up at first, but it works.



 What if I have one of those 1830s scores that take the fl. down to G?


You could do this with pitch bending as well, but I would probably just 
temporarily switch to the alto flute (using a channel change 
expression) for the low notes.


Case in point: finger the bottom D of the piccolo while covering the 
far end of the instrument w. your R 5th finger. The result is the D an 
octave lower. This effect has been written in actual music. What does 
GPO do in this case?


Again, you would have to do this with a -12 semitone pitch bend 
expression.


GPO obviously cannot account for every single eventuality.  It's always 
going to be a rough approximation.  There are no samples of 
multiphonics, or playing with only the mouthpiece, or even standard 
string techniques like harmonics, sul pont, and sul tasto.  The Finale 
Edition of GPO doesn't even include string mutes or brass mutes (the 
full version does).


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY


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Re: [Finale] Measure expressions & general playback

[dhbailey]

James Gilbert wrote:


I think this question applies to just about any more recent version of
Finale. 3-staves of music (organ music), each assigned to a different MIDI
channel, same patch assignemnt. The lowest 2 staves have 'display measure
expressions' set to off (so only the top stave shows measure expressions).
Human playback is turned off.

When I assign a measure expression, assigned to all staves, with playback
velocity, it only seems to affect the top stave, not all three staves. Why
is this?  Shouldn't a measure assigned expression's playback options
affect all the staves in that measure? If I want different playback
options (velocities)  for each stave, I would use a note attached
expression on each stave.  Right?


[snip]

What am I doing wrong? How do I get one dynamic expression with playback
velocity to affect all three staves (or even 2 staves in piano music).
Yes, organ music often has different dynamics for each stave, but often
you only put one dynamic marking that is good for all staves.



What you're asking about has never been the case -- measure expressions 
only affect the staff they're on and any other staves assigned to the 
same channel.


Since you've got all three staves set to three channels, you need to 
place the expression in all three staves for them to work correctly.


This (to answer someone else's post questioning the need to have one 
file for printout and a second copy for playback) is a reason we 
sometimes need 2 copies of the score, one for playback (place the 
expression in all staves so they all respond properly) and one for 
printout (since a human can respond to one instance of an expression and 
apply that to both hands and feet).


Or you can simply set all staves to the same channel and the single 
expression will affect them all.



--
David H. Bailey
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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006/GPO : How the hell do I....?

[Darcy James Argue]

On 01 Aug 2005, at 8:05 AM, dhbailey wrote:

Since FinaleGPO is the big selling point of this new version, why 
would they include expressions in the default file, already defined 
for playback, which a person is NOT supposed to use in order to have 
Finale/GPO playback properly?


Beats the hell out of me.  We told them not to do that, and warned them 
that it would only cause confusion, and they did it anyway.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [Finale] Is it just me?

[David W. Fenton]

On 1 Aug 2005 at 14:55, Phil Daley wrote:

> At 8/1/2005 02:43 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
> 
>  >"Image file" means one of two things:
>  >
>  >1. a file that has the contents of an entire CD that can then be
>  >imaged onto the CD-R/RW in one operation. > >2. a file that captures
>  the image of an entire hard drive, created >with programs like
>  Symantec's Ghost.
> 
> 3. A list of directories saved to a CD through a program that saves
> "images" of what you previously saved.
> 
> Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If one person uses it, it "exists." That doesn't mean it's a meaning 
that is common enough to be clear without defininig it.

Google and find me 5 examples of the term used in that fashion.

You won't find them because the term's just not used that way.

Or if you do find them, it will be 5 misguided people who are using 
the term in a manner that is not common anywhere in the computer 
industry as a whole.


-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] FinGPO slots/MIDI channels

[dhbailey]

Aaron Sherber wrote:


Hi all,

After playing around some more, I've noticed a limitation which may have 
been obvious to others from the discussion, but which I hadn't realized.


We've already discussed the fact that any GPO slot can be mapped to any 
MIDI channel in the range of that instance of GPO. But the corollary is 
that no matter how you map things, GPO will only work with 8 MIDI 
channels out of any group of 16.


In other words, if you have a piece that uses MIDI channels 1-16, I dont 
think there's any way to get all 16 to playback through FinGPO. The 
first GPO instance will handle any 8 of those channels, but the second 
instance will only handle channels between 17-32.




Actually, no matter how many instances of GPO you start, the midi 
channels for any single instance are still listed as 1-16.  You can 
place whatever instrument you want in any of the 16 channels (you still 
only have access to 8 slots per instance of GPO.)


HOWEVER, if you add any staves manually after setting up your score, 
even if you are using GPO playback, the channel in the instrument list 
must be the properly numbered channel (1-128).


For instance, I just ran another quick experiment, using the setup 
wizard to give me a single flute staff, set to flute player 1 patch, 
that's on channel 1.


Then I manually added a second staff, and used GPO setup to load a tuba 
patch for it, in a second instance of GPO (channel 17-32).


The channel menu in the GPO setup (the one with the keyboard) still 
shows that I can select any channel from 1 to 16 or OMNI.  I decided to 
try channel 14.


No playback on the new staff, original flute staff played fine.

Go to instrument list, set the new staff to be the tuba patch (it showed 
that it should be flute -- don't know why the program made any 
assumption about a staff I added), and set it to be channel 14.


No playback on the new staff, original flute staff played fine.

It was only when I set the channel for the tuba line to be channel 30 
(the 14th channel in the second set of 16) that I go the two lines to 
play back appropriately.


So we're back to what I was complaining about originally -- you need to 
copies of the score if you want one to be able to play back through an 
external module or synth that only recognizes the standard 16 channels 
of midi.


And Aaron is correct that we can assign any of the 16 channels within 
any single instance of GPO but we can never assign all 16 channels for 
any single instance.


Setting something to be channel 14 in the second instance of GPO does 
nothing, until you get the instrument list to recognize it as channel 30.


So there is communication between GPO and the instrument list, and the 
channel must be correctly set in the instrument list for things to work 
properly.


--
David H. Bailey
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Re: [Finale] Re: TAN: Brain music

[Crystal Premo]

I can tell you first hand that some music therapists are doing some very 
useful things with autistics and other folk with this sort of impairment.  
With some autistics, music helps them focus and be present, even severely 
autistic individuals.  No cures, though.


Crystal Premo
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





From: Phil Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Re: TAN: Brain music
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 11:15:40 -0400

At 8/1/2005 10:26 AM, John Howell wrote:

>(Of course I still don't understand what "music therapy" is or what 
"music therapists" do!)


Oh, that brings up a long forgotten assignment in a grad school Writing 
Techniques class wherein I had to write a short treatise on "Music 
Therapy", you know, complete with research notes, bibliography, etc, etc, 
etc.


My conclusion - total malarkey ;-)

YMMV

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley



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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006/GPO : need two playback files

[Darcy James Argue]

On 01 Aug 2005, at 7:20 AM, dhbailey wrote:


Darcy James Argue wrote:

In both cases, you should make sure the expression "pizz" is NOT 
defined for playback, and that Human Playback is on and set to 
"Auto-Detect."


I realize that Darcy isn't the person who raised the question as to 
why anyone would need two playback files, in response to my whining 
about how GPO is now going to force us to have at least two copies of 
a Finale file, if not 3.


If to use the FinaleGPO properly we are supposed to define expressions 
so they do NOT playback,


Only for the keyswitches.

 we will need to create and place substitute expressions which WILL 
playback for folks who don't want to or can't use GPO playback (due to 
computer limitations) when we share Finale2006 files with them.


No, because Human Playback catches those expressions ("pizz" "arco") 
and interprets them correctly even when you're not playing back using 
GPO.


That's the point of leaving the expressions undefined -- otherwise, you 
*would* need two sets of expressions, one for the Finale SoundFont, and 
one for GPO.  But by leaving them undefined, Human Playback is able to 
automatically interpret them correctly depending on which playback 
method you have selected.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Is it just me?

[David W. Fenton]

On 1 Aug 2005 at 12:53, Stephen Peters wrote:

> "David W. Fenton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > It doesn't work reliably in WinXP, because the CD-R writing
> > interface has been hijacked and command prompts have been left out
> > in the cold in a state of unreliability because of it.
> 
> I confess, I'm confused now.  I thought this all started because the
> Finale 2006 was being shipped on a DVD drive, and you were suggesting
> that DVD drives were unreliable on WinXP, which to me implied that the
> DVD-ROM *reading* interface was bad.  Now it sounds like the problem
> is that the *writing* interface is unreliable.  Is there a problem
> with reading DVD-ROMs on XP that I haven't seen yet?

Well, for reading DVD drives you still have to have appropriate 
drivers. The client of mine who "downgraded" from WinXP to Win2K is 
now unable to use their DVD drive because the Win2K drivers Dell 
provides for the drive don't work with it.

This is not a WinXP problem, of course. It's a problem with the lack 
of real support for DVDs in the OS (and, as Hiro points out, in the 
BIOS, which on the PC supports only the IDE interface, not the 
specific quirks of optical drives).

My point was that because of the way optical drive support works in 
Windows, you can't count on these things to work as expected. I was 
simply supplying a caution to those contemplating add-on DVD drives.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] Finale, GPO, and Wizard

[Darcy James Argue]

On 01 Aug 2005, at 8:42 AM, ronan wrote:

I've been reading all the posts about the fact that GPO is missing in 
the

startup wizard of many people's machines.

Some are quite angry about it. I kept wondering what everyone is 
talking

about, because it is there in my startup Wizard.

 I have three options in the wizard: 1. Full Garritan GPO, 2. 
Softsynths, 3.

Finale's version of GPO.


Really??? Wow.


So, my questions are:



1)   Is it missing only on Mac's? (I have a PC).


I guess so.

2)   Have you installed the patch that was inserted into the 
Kontakt

1.1.8.3 upgrade early last week?


Not sure what you're talking about, but a few days ago I removed GPO 
entirely and reinstalled in from scratch, applying all the latest 
updates from NI and Garritan.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [Finale] Finale 2006 and Garritan Orchestra

[John Bell]

On 1 Aug 2005, at 19:13, ronan wrote:The only thing you'll need to do is download the latest version of Kontakt player (version 1.1.8.3). I've downloaded this several times from NI's website, but every time I try to unzip it I get an error message "...the archive may contain damaged content"John___
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Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO

[Darcy James Argue]

On 01 Aug 2005, at 7:26 AM, dhbailey wrote:


And for someone using an external playback device with 16 channels?


They will have to use the Finale SoundFont.

But for whatever reason, if sharing a file with them, changes will 
have to be made.  Changes which won't work with GPO.


Or you could just record to audio and send that along with the file.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [Finale] Is it just me?

[Phil Daley]

At 8/1/2005 02:43 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:

>> I said you need a CD Creator program.
>
>Well, then, you're agreeing with me that it is impossible to do this
>with standard Windows XP -- you need add-on software.

Correct.

>>  >What would you suggest for backup, both method and medium?
>>
>> A CD Creator program.  Didn't you read my message?
>
>You have changed the terms of the question without saying so.
>
>I was never talking about buying add-on software, as should have been
>clear to you if you'd bothered to pay any attention to the thread.

It should have been clear to you if you were paying attention to what i wrote.

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley



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Re: [Finale] Re: GPO/non-GPO workflow question

[Darcy James Argue]

On 01 Aug 2005, at 9:05 AM, Brad Beyenhof wrote:


However, they have never given these gifts with pre-orders,


Not true.  I have two Finale t-shirts, both from preorders.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY


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Re: [Finale] Is it just me?

[Phil Daley]

At 8/1/2005 02:43 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:

>"Image file" means one of two things:
>
>1. a file that has the contents of an entire CD that can then be
>imaged onto the CD-R/RW in one operation.
>
>2. a file that captures the image of an entire hard drive, created
>with programs like Symantec's Ghost.

3. A list of directories saved to a CD through a program that saves 
"images" of what you previously saved.


Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley



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Re: [Finale] Is it just me?

[David W. Fenton]

On 1 Aug 2005 at 7:20, Phil Daley wrote:

> At 7/31/2005 05:01 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
> 
>  >> Since it is so easy to use a CD Creator program and you can save
>  the >> "Image file" so it can be used multiple times, I can see no
>  reason to >> use an unreliable program, like XCOPY. > >How do you
>  script a CD Creator program for regular backup, so that >it's a
>  single doubleclick for the end user?
> 
> It can even be added to the Task Scheduler, so that users wouldn't
> even have to think about "double clicking" anything.
> 
>  >Secondly, why would you want to repeatedly backup a single image of
>  >your data files?
> 
> You've lost me.  I thought that was what you were doing with a backup
> script?

Do you know what the term "image file" means? Obviously not.

"Image file" means one of two things:

1. a file that has the contents of an entire CD that can then be 
imaged onto the CD-R/RW in one operation.

2. a file that captures the image of an entire hard drive, created 
with programs like Symantec's Ghost.

When you use the term "image file" anyone who has any experience with 
CD-R's is going to think that you mean one of those two things.

> I thought you were copying a set of directories to a CD-R.
> 
> That's what a Creator script does, makes the same type of backup to a
> CD-R.  Obviously, it copies all the changes, which you don't seem to
> understand.

You used the term "image file," which is not by any means the same 
thing. You wrote:

> Since it is so easy to use a CD Creator program and you can save 
> the "Image file" so it can be used multiple times. . .

It seems that all you meant was saving the script as a file, not as 
an "image file."

>  >If you're doing a full backup, yes, imaging the drive is great.
> 
> No.  I would never ever do a full backup, too big, too many CDs.
> 
>  >But if all you're doing is a data backup (substantially less data),
>  >then it's not satisfactory.
> 
> Of course not, that is not what I was saying to do.

Well, your completely non-standard use of the term "image file" 
applied to a simple *FILE* made it impossible to understand what you 
meant.

>  >1. the built in backup program provided with WinXP can only use hard
>  >drives or floppy disks, not CD-R.
> 
> I would never use a Microsoft backup program.
> 
>  >2. the built-in tools for creating CD-Rs are not scriptable, so you
>  >can't create a backup script to run at will or no a schedule.
> 
> I said you need a CD Creator program.

Well, then, you're agreeing with me that it is impossible to do this 
with standard Windows XP -- you need add-on software.

>  >What would you suggest for backup, both method and medium?
> 
> A CD Creator program.  Didn't you read my message?

You have changed the terms of the question without saying so.

I was never talking about buying add-on software, as should have been 
clear to you if you'd bothered to pay any attention to the thread.

I was pointing out that techniques for using writable optical drives 
that worked in previous versions of Windows are now BROKEN in WinXP. 
And you have not disputed that. You've simply provided a way of, 
perhaps, working around the problem that involves buying additional 
software.

That's fine, except that before WinXP, not additional software 
purchases were necessary to use this functionality of a CD-R drive.

Which basically makes my point.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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R: [Finale] Finale 2006 and Garritan Orchestra

[angelogilardino]

 

> -Messaggio originale-
> Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Per conto di ronan
> Inviato: lunedì 1 agosto 2005 20.14
> A: finale@shsu.edu
> Oggetto: RE: [Finale] Finale 2006 and Garritan Orchestra
> 
> No question is naïve, especially when it comes to F2006 and GPO.
> 
> The only thing you'll need to do is download the latest 
> version of Kontakt player (version 1.1.8.3). If you did this 
> before July 25th, you'll have to do it again. That will put a 
> Full GPO option in your startup wizard (if you're running 
> Windows) and let you use full GPO without fuss or bother.
> 
> If you have a Mac, then others can best advise you about the 
> pitfalls there.
> 
> Ron
> 
> Ronald J Brown
> PO Box 138
> Newboro ON K0G 1P0
> (613) 272-3181
> http://www.RonaldJBrown.com

Thankyou Ron.

AG



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Re: [Finale] Measure expressions & general playback

[James Gilbert]

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Jim Williamson wrote:

> Have you made sure that "Measure Expressions" is checked in those staffs
> inside "Staff Tool"?

I don't want (nor should I have) the measure expressions displayed on each
staff. This is keyboard music - one dynamic expression between the top two
staves is all that is required. Also, the only option in the staff tool is
for what items to "display" and makes no reference to it affecting
playback.

However, in setting measure expressions on in each staff - which looks
ugly, the velocity is changed accordingly. But, that's not the way piano
or organ music is supposed to look. There is only suppose to be one
dynamic marking between the two staves (piano music) and between the two
top staves (organ music) when the manuals and pedals are all the
same dynamics.

Even in orchestral music I sometimes only show the dynamics on the top
stave of an instrument family. It may not be standard notation, but it
helps keep the score from being cluttered in some cases. It seems to me
that a measure attached expression with playback defined (velocity, in
this case), should apply to all staves in that measure for playback. Why
should I have to display the expression on all systems? I'll accept that
for orchestral/band music I probably should have the expression shown on
all staves, but this simply is not the way keyboard music works and there
needs to be a way for playback to honor that in keyboard music, with or
without human playback.

I guess I'm stuck with having to use note attached expressions for the top
staff and hidden note attached for the other two staves. That's twice the
time if I only had to enter one dynamic expression. Oh well..

James Gilbert
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RE: [Finale] Finale 2006 and Garritan Orchestra

[ronan]

No question is naïve, especially when it comes to F2006 and GPO.

The only thing you'll need to do is download the latest version of Kontakt
player (version 1.1.8.3). If you did this before July 25th, you'll have to
do it again. That will put a Full GPO option in your startup wizard (if
you're running Windows) and let you use full GPO without fuss or bother.

If you have a Mac, then others can best advise you about the pitfalls there.

Ron

Ronald J Brown
PO Box 138
Newboro ON K0G 1P0
(613) 272-3181
http://www.RonaldJBrown.com


-Original Message-
From: angelogilardino [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: August 1, 2005 10:17 AM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] Finale 2006 and Garritan Orchestra

I apologize for the naivete of my question - I am not a regular reader of
this list. I currently use Finale 2005 and a full version of Garritan
orchestra. I have ordered the upgrade to Finale 2006, which I will receive
within a few days. What happens if installing it? Advantages or
complications? Please, help me to avoid pains. Thankyou.

AG  





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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006/GPO : How the hell do I....?

[Raymond Horton]

Andrew Stiller wrote:



So what happens if I've got a part that goes down to Bb (as some do)? 
What if I have one of those 1830s scores that take the fl. down to G? 
I sense some big problems here, if not for flute, than for some other 
instruments, because for every one of them there is, below the lowest 
normal note, a whole bunch of abnormal low notes that composers, in 
their perversity, do in fact write from time to time.


Case in point: finger the bottom D of the piccolo while covering the 
far end of the instrument w. your R 5th finger. The result is the D an 
octave lower. This effect has been written in actual music. What does 
GPO do in this case?


Remember that GPO is sample-based.  If the flute player that GG sampled 
didn't play a low Bb, the sample doesn't have one.  The one that boggles 
my brain the most is Bass Trombone 1 Solo, which has a much better sound 
than Bass Trombone 1 Solo, but which only extends up to the G - top 
space of bass clef!  Try finding a bass trombone part anywhere that 
doesn't extend above that note!  Bass Trombone 2 Solo, while having a 
much rougher sound, is a real hot-dog, range-wise, extending from a high 
C (an octave and a 5th higher than Bass Trombone 1 Solo) down to a 
double pedal Bb, a step lower than any of the tuba samples (I used it 
for that missing tuba note in one score.).  I just, today, noticed that 
the piccolo trumpet samples extend no higher than the solo trumpet 
samples (high F in both cases, which would be OK for "Penny Lane" but 
would lack a note for the F Major Brandenburg Concerto).


But, to your questions, there are often workarounds that are not 
difficult.  For a flute passage extending to low G, simply load an alto 
flute sample into another layer and put that passage into that layer.  
For that odd low picc note, load a flute patch into another layer and do 
the same.  (For that one you may have to hide a layer, transpose it 
8ba,  and label it for playback, while preserving a notation-only layer 
in the written octave.  I'm not sure if this is necessary with GPO - 
I've done this in the pre-GPO past for putting a flute double in a 
piccolo staff. )


Hope this helps!

Raymond Horton
Bass Trombonist
occasional arranger, composer
Louisville Orchestra


Darcy wrote:

In GPO Full, these keyswitches are always in the octave immediately 
below the lowest playable note on the instrument, so that they can be 
triggered in real time.  For instance, the lowest note on the GPO Full 
KS flute is B3.  The keyswitch to trigger ordinary playing is a major 
seventh below that (i.e., C3). D3 triggers non vib playing. E3 
triggers fluttertongue playing.



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Re: [Finale] Measure expressions & general playback

[Jim Williamson]

Have you made sure that "Measure Expressions" is checked in those staffs
inside "Staff Tool"?

Jim


- Original Message -
From: "James Gilbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 10:54 AM
Subject: [Finale] Measure expressions & general playback


> I think this question applies to just about any more recent version of
> Finale. 3-staves of music (organ music), each assigned to a different MIDI
> channel, same patch assignemnt. The lowest 2 staves have 'display measure
> expressions' set to off (so only the top stave shows measure expressions).
> Human playback is turned off.
>
> When I assign a measure expression, assigned to all staves, with playback
> velocity, it only seems to affect the top stave, not all three staves. Why
> is this?  Shouldn't a measure assigned expression's playback options
> affect all the staves in that measure? If I want different playback
> options (velocities)  for each stave, I would use a note attached
> expression on each stave.  Right?
>
> In looking at the raw MIDI data (from a save to midi file), the top stave
> is assigned a velocity of 49 in measure one, but the other two staves have
> been set to 64. This doesn't make any sense to me. Why aren't all staves
> assigned a velocity of 49?
>
> I even tried two versions with human playback enabled - one with velocity
> & continuous data enabled, and the other set to ignore velocity and
> continuous data (the expression playback info). Both of those were the
> same as the non-human playback (above) except that the third stave (which
> had lots of sustained notes) started with a velocity of 85. There were
> considerable volume (Controller 7) changes in stave 3 - over 50 in the
> first 2 measure. There were some volume changes in the other two staves
> (that were not present in the non-human playback version), but not very
> many. So, it appears that even human playback doesn't set the velocity
> based on measure expressions.
>
> What am I doing wrong? How do I get one dynamic expression with playback
> velocity to affect all three staves (or even 2 staves in piano music).
> Yes, organ music often has different dynamics for each stave, but often
> you only put one dynamic marking that is good for all staves.
>
> James Gilbert
>
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>
>


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[Finale] Full GPO and Mac

[Harold Owen]

Folks,

After downloading the patch from NI, the full GPO instruments can be 
selected in the Setup Wizard and also in the NI AU Setup. I'm on a G4 
iMac with 1 gigabyte RAM.


BTW, when setting up older files for GPO, you can save some time by 
first setting up the score using the Wizard, then opening your old 
file and using insert to move it into the new one.


Hal
--
Harold Owen
2830 Emerald St., Eugene, OR 97403
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Visit my web site at:
http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen
FAX: (509) 461-3608
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[Finale] Sleeping in?

[Andrew Levin]

It appears Darcy is taking the morning off. Good for him!
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[Finale] FinMac2006 MIDI Output : HELP!

[A-NO-NE Music]

I am loosing myself.
Before FinMac2006, I was using other Vi via InterApplication MIDI.

I enable it under FinMac MIDI setup.
There are 4 banks FinMac publishes to CoreMIDI.
Finale 200x Output 1 ~ 4
Which then Finale MIDI output is seen on the other end such as Virtual
Sampler.

This is how I have been using since I don't want to be restricted by GPO.

I just realized Instrument List no longer let me assign output to
"Finale 2006 Output".  If I enable IAC Bus, it shows up under the menu
so something has changed with FinMac 2006 to disable this function.

The scary part of this is that I am also no longer able to do this with
FinMac2005b.  I tried to fiddle with FinMac2005b MIDI setting which
resulted in a crash.  The crash log suggests OSX, not Finale, itself
crashed at event handler.  Bad.

Can some one confirm if you are still able to assign instrument MIDI
output to "Finale 200x Output 1 ~ 4"?  Is there something I totally
forgot about for some reason?

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] FinGPO slots/MIDI channels

[Brad Beyenhof]

On 01/08/05, Aaron Sherber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I just tried this and confirmed it. Start a new score, one staff,
> make it MIDI 9. Play through Softsynth and all is well. Now set it up
> with FinGPO. You can get this channel to play back by mapping a slot
> in the first Kontakt player to MIDI 9, but there is no way to get a
> slot in the second Kontakt player to map to this channel.

Oddly, I've been able to map MIDI 9 to GPO 17 on a Fin2k3 file I
imported into 2k6, but when I create a file directly in 2k6 I'm seeing
the same thing that you're seeing.

In 2k6-created files, it seems that MIDI channels and GPO channels are
inextricably linked. On the imported file, I was able to change the
channel number in the Mixer (the bottom-most number) to be any GPO
channel, regrdless of the MIDI chennel. Changing this value didn't
affect the MIDI channel in any way.

I wonder what it is about 2k6-created files (or is it in the 2k6
default file itself?) that is different...

-- 
Brad Beyenhof
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com
Life would be so much easier if only (3/2)^12=(2/1)^7.

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Re: [Finale] Is it just me?

[Stephen Peters]

"David W. Fenton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> It doesn't work reliably in WinXP, because the CD-R writing interface 
> has been hijacked and command prompts have been left out in the cold 
> in a state of unreliability because of it.

I confess, I'm confused now.  I thought this all started because the
Finale 2006 was being shipped on a DVD drive, and you were suggesting
that DVD drives were unreliable on WinXP, which to me implied that the
DVD-ROM *reading* interface was bad.  Now it sounds like the problem
is that the *writing* interface is unreliable.  Is there a problem
with reading DVD-ROMs on XP that I haven't seen yet?

-- 
Stephen L. Peters  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  GPG fingerprint: A1BF 5A81 03E7 47CE 71E0  3BD4 8DA6 9268 5BB6 4BBE
  "If you make me complete, I'll avoid all red meat.
I'll eat nothing but soy to have comfort and joy!" -- Bat Boy: The Musical
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Re: [Finale] FinGPO slots/MIDI channels

[Aaron Sherber]

At 12:37 PM 08/01/2005, Brad Beyenhof wrote:
>The MIDI channels in the Instrument List are independent from GPO
>channels.

Yes, I've been saying this for a while.

>You can set an instrument to use MIDI channel 9 from the
>Instrument list, but Channel 1 of the second Kontakt player (channel
>17) when using GPO.

No, I don't believe you can. I don't think you can tell the first 
channel of the second Kontakt player to listen to MIDI 9. The second 
Kontakt player can *only* listen to MIDI channels 17-32, and it can 
only map to 9 of those channels. That is, the numbers 1-16 in the 
MIDI dropdown in each Kontakt player are relative to the range of that player.


I just tried this and confirmed it. Start a new score, one staff, 
make it MIDI 9. Play through Softsynth and all is well. Now set it up 
with FinGPO. You can get this channel to play back by mapping a slot 
in the first Kontakt player to MIDI 9, but there is no way to get a 
slot in the second Kontakt player to map to this channel.


Aaron.

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[Finale] OSX - GPO to Audio File

[Simon Troup]

Following the suggestions from David and Hiro, it seems you can get Finale GPO 
output to an audio file completely within the digital realm and using only 
freeware applications:

Soundflower:
http://www.cycling74.com/products/soundflower.html

Audacity:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

I've just tried it and it works great. Thanks guys. A useful fix until 2006a 
rolls the functionality in.

Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

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Re: [Finale] FinGPO slots/MIDI channels

[Brad Beyenhof]

On 01/08/05, Aaron Sherber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> In other words, if you have a piece that uses MIDI channels 1-16, I
> dont think there's any way to get all 16 to playback through FinGPO.
> The first GPO instance will handle any 8 of those channels, but the
> second instance will only handle channels between 17-32.

The MIDI channels in the Instrument List are independent from GPO
channels. You can set an instrument to use MIDI channel 9 from the
Instrument list, but Channel 1 of the second Kontakt player (channel
17) when using GPO. In this way, you can keep your actual MIDI
instruments within 16 channels (in order to use standard MIDI output),
but map those channels to multiple instances of the Kontakt GPO
player.

By the way, I have used the Mixer interface to do this remapping. We
keep talking about the settings we're changing, but it's not always
clear what UI we're using to get to these settings. I propose that it
would make the discussion a lot clearer if we were as specific in our
"how" as we are in our "what."

-- 
Brad Beyenhof
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com
Life would be so much easier if only (3/2)^12=(2/1)^7.

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Re: [Finale] Re: Audacity

[Simon Troup]

> My choice of CA linker is Soundflower, which is very well written,
> free, and stable:
>  I used to use
> AudioJack, but it hogs resources much more than Soundflower.

Brilliant!

Hero, many thanks, been looking for something like that for some time :)

Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

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[Finale] Measure expressions & general playback

[James Gilbert]

I think this question applies to just about any more recent version of
Finale. 3-staves of music (organ music), each assigned to a different MIDI
channel, same patch assignemnt. The lowest 2 staves have 'display measure
expressions' set to off (so only the top stave shows measure expressions).
Human playback is turned off.

When I assign a measure expression, assigned to all staves, with playback
velocity, it only seems to affect the top stave, not all three staves. Why
is this?  Shouldn't a measure assigned expression's playback options
affect all the staves in that measure? If I want different playback
options (velocities)  for each stave, I would use a note attached
expression on each stave.  Right?

In looking at the raw MIDI data (from a save to midi file), the top stave
is assigned a velocity of 49 in measure one, but the other two staves have
been set to 64. This doesn't make any sense to me. Why aren't all staves
assigned a velocity of 49?

I even tried two versions with human playback enabled - one with velocity
& continuous data enabled, and the other set to ignore velocity and
continuous data (the expression playback info). Both of those were the
same as the non-human playback (above) except that the third stave (which
had lots of sustained notes) started with a velocity of 85. There were
considerable volume (Controller 7) changes in stave 3 - over 50 in the
first 2 measure. There were some volume changes in the other two staves
(that were not present in the non-human playback version), but not very
many. So, it appears that even human playback doesn't set the velocity
based on measure expressions.

What am I doing wrong? How do I get one dynamic expression with playback
velocity to affect all three staves (or even 2 staves in piano music).
Yes, organ music often has different dynamics for each stave, but often
you only put one dynamic marking that is good for all staves.

James Gilbert

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[Finale] FinGPO slots/MIDI channels

[Aaron Sherber]

Hi all,

After playing around some more, I've noticed a limitation which may 
have been obvious to others from the discussion, but which I hadn't realized.


We've already discussed the fact that any GPO slot can be mapped to 
any MIDI channel in the range of that instance of GPO. But the 
corollary is that no matter how you map things, GPO will only work 
with 8 MIDI channels out of any group of 16.


In other words, if you have a piece that uses MIDI channels 1-16, I 
dont think there's any way to get all 16 to playback through FinGPO. 
The first GPO instance will handle any 8 of those channels, but the 
second instance will only handle channels between 17-32.


Just something to keep in mind.

Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006/GPO : How the hell do I....?

[Johannes Gebauer]

Andrew Stiller schrieb:
So what happens if I've got a part that goes down to Bb (as some do)? 


Well, I cannot tell you about such Flute parts, but I have a piece with 
a cello part that goes down to A (well, it's a French Bass de violon) 
below the normal C. With the normal, non-notation version of GPO it's a 
nightmare, because this triggers the trill, and for the rest of the 
piece all bass notes are trills. Very funny.


However, I am assuming that the notation version won't have that 
problem, though I haven't tried it (I am currently on a modem line and 
can't possibliy download the newest GPO patch from here).


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006/GPO : need two playback files

[Aaron Sherber]

At 11:24 AM 08/01/2005, dhbailey wrote:
>I did finally figure that out, and all either you or Darcy needed to do
>was to point us to the unnecessarily tiny slot in the GPO setup dialog
>(the one which looks like a keyboard) which has a midi-port icon and a
>number or the word OMNI beside it.

Yes, that may have been in one of my earlier posts. But frankly I'm a 
bit brain-dead myself from processing all of this info.


Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO

[Aaron Sherber]

At 11:09 AM 08/01/2005, dhbailey wrote:
>I just spent a very frustrating half-hour before I realized that the
>place to change channels isn't the instrument list but is the
>keyboard-like interface of the VST setup

Yes, that was in one of my earlier posts.

>However, when I edit that, a comparable edit is not made in the
>Instrument List window, so if I am configuring a file to play through an
>external device I need to edit that as well.  And the edit there won't
>have any affect on the channel I edit in the GPO dialog.

Well, yes, I suppose. That all makes sense to me. The edits you make 
in the GPO dialog tell GPO what channels to listen for. It doesn't 
tell any other device.


>But if I edit the instrument playback list, even if I am using GPO, and
>so assign a channel that doesn't have a patch loaded, there will be no
>sound.

Yes, that's also true.

>So it seems that Instrument list edits can affect GPO playback, but GPO
>edits don't always affect Instrument List data.

I don't think either affects either, really. The instrument list 
tells Finale what MIDI channel to use for each staff. The Kontakt 
dialog tells Kontakt what channels to map to what patches. If you 
things around, neither one talks to the other.


>However, if you load
>two different patches and assign them both to OMNI, you get one sound or
>the other for all your staves

That's what I would expect. OMNI probably means to listen to all MIDI 
channels and play that sound.


>score utilizes more than 16 channels and you want to make it playable on
>a standard 16-channel midi playback device, but then that's been true
>ever since MakeMusic expanded midi capability to more than 16 channels
>and there's never been a way around that.

Yes, exactly.

Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO

[James Gilbert]

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, dhbailey wrote:

> Interestingly enough, changing the setting to be OMNI, and GPO responds
> to any channel edits I make in Instrument List.  However, if you load
> two different patches and assign them both to OMNI, you get one sound or
> the other for all your staves (I added a second staff and tried it), so
> you're stuck with assigning specific channels to the GPO sounds.
>
> I don't think anybody could explain this behavior, not even Darcy.

I don't know if this explains it or not, but I had some problems getting
the GPO to work at all. I was trying an organ piece that I set the staves
to channels 4, 5 & 6 in the instrument list. However, I loaded the GPO
sounds into the first 3 slots (which default to channels 1, 2 & 3).
Messing around with OMNI did get me the organ sounds, but not in the way I
wanted. So, I loaded the GPO sounds into slots 4, 5 & 6 and everything
worked fine. So, whatever channels are in the instrument list are the
channels you need to load the GPO sounds into. (It should be noted that
each slot in the Kontakt player, where you load the GPO sounds, can be
changed to whatever channel you want it to, but it doesn't affect the
instrument list. So, load the GPO sounds into the same channels specified
by the instrument list).

> I still
> find the soundfont playback to be perfectly fine for playback and for demos.

Considering the excessive system demands GPO has and the ready
availability of free soundfounts on the internet - there is a nice english
organ soundfont floating around out there for free and many orchestra
soundfonts - I'm quite content with the smartsynth soundfont or even the
Roland VSC for playback and demos.

James Gilbert

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Re: [Finale] Re: Audacity

[A-NO-NE Music]

Simon Troup / 2005/08/01 / 11:19 AM wrote:

>Wow, I'm not brave enough to try that ... I would have thought something
>would explode in a giant feedback loop :)

It won't, but the sound would be terrible since built-in audio DAC is
interfered by the power supply badly.  QS Mac and 1st gen G5 also had
ground broken shield issue that will cause massive sound degradation if
you do this.

According to Dave, FinWin seems to be publishing I/O to Windows built-in
mixer.  Why FinMac doesn't do it to OSX CA is beyond me, but nonetheless
using Audacity on Mac won't work unless you have something makes the CA pipe.

My choice of CA linker is Soundflower, which is very well written, free,
and stable:

I used to use AudioJack, but it hogs resources much more than Soundflower.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] FinMac2006/GPO : need two playback files

[dhbailey]

Aaron Sherber wrote:


At 10:30 AM 08/01/2005, dhbailey wrote:
 >Yes, I did, and there was nothing about a file that could be played the
 >old fashioned way, through a midi-interface into an external module.

I believe this is essentially the same as playing through Softsynth, 
except you direct your MIDI output elsewhere.


 >How would a 16-channel midi-interface handle things assigned to channels
 >17-24?

Now I feel a little like Darcy, starting to repeat the same thing 
several times. (But only a little, since his experience is vastly 
greater than mine.)


A GPO slot is different from a MIDI channel. If you have a 16-channel 
MIDI interface, then set up your score to use those channels. Then 
you'll need two instances of FinGPO. The first will use GPO slots 1-8, 
probably mapped to MIDI 1-8. The second will use GPO slots 17-24, and 
you'll have to map them to MIDI 9-16.


I admit this is non-intuitive and not well explained in the Finale docs. 
I didn't get it until something that Darcy said made me realize it.




I did finally figure that out, and all either you or Darcy needed to do 
was to point us to the unnecessarily tiny slot in the GPO setup dialog 
(the one which looks like a keyboard) which has a midi-port icon and a 
number or the word OMNI beside it.  Clicking on the number or OMNI but 
NOT clicking on the icon itself (that does nothing, go figure -- don't 
these people at GPO or MakeMusic go to seminars on user interfaces 
ever?) opens a list of all 16 midi channel numbers.


It is from this list, and this list ONLY that you can reassign the midi 
channel for any of the 8 instruments in a single GPO instance.


I owe you a debt of gratitude, Aaron, expressed in another message, for 
sticking with me on this one and forcing me (through sheer obstinance on 
my part) to figure it out.


But once I found out where to change the midi channel for an instrument 
slot in GPO, the rest is easy.


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Re: Audacity

[Simon Troup]

> Came in on the end of this in digest format. With Audacity, I record
> by putting an RCA jack (I think it is) into the audio-in port at the
> back of my G4 mirror-door and putting the other end in the front
> microphone jack above the mirrored doors. This works, but AH is the
> software of choice. Thurletta

Wow, I'm not brave enough to try that ... I would have thought something would 
explode in a giant feedback loop :)

Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

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Re: [Finale] GPO/non-GPO workflow question

[dhbailey]

A-NO-NE Music wrote:


dhbailey / 2005/08/01 / 09:04 AM wrote:


You can record with it.  There's a drop-down list of sources (the same 
as you have enabled in the Windows Mixer, Properties for Recording dialog.)




I am most curious.
How Audacity can see Finale's output?  Finale doesn't publish CA I/O by
itself so you would need something like AudioJack that hacks low level CA.




Are you on Windows?  I think you are on a Mac, so I have no idea how you 
would get it to work.


On Windows, there is a mixer where you can select which devices will 
appear as playback devices and which will appear as recording sources, 
and then you simply enable or disable them as you wish (sort of like 
having a MUTE button) and adjust the levels from the Windows Mixer which 
appears in the Systray.


I have no clue how Audacity works internally, but I would assume it is 
making use of these settings in Windows Mixer, because all of the 
Recording Sources I have selected to show in that also appear in the 
drop-down list in Audacity.


Within Audacity itself, I simply select the source I want and any output 
from that source is routed into the Audacity recording routine.


I hope I have explained that clearly.  Knowing that there are vast 
differences between MacOS and Windows, I can assume this area is no 
different.


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Finale] Re: TAN: Brain music

[Phil Daley]

At 8/1/2005 10:26 AM, John Howell wrote:

>(Of course I still don't understand what "music therapy" is or what 
"music therapists" do!)


Oh, that brings up a long forgotten assignment in a grad school Writing 
Techniques class wherein I had to write a short treatise on "Music 
Therapy", you know, complete with research notes, bibliography, etc, etc, etc.


My conclusion - total malarkey ;-)

YMMV

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley



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Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO

[dhbailey]

Aaron Sherber wrote:


At 07:26 AM 08/01/2005, dhbailey wrote:
 >And for someone using an external playback device with 16 channels?  How
 >will having channels 1-8 and 17-24 be responded to on a device which
 >only recognizes 1-16?

David, take a look at some of my other responses to Darcy. A GPO slot is 
not the same thing as a MIDI channel, even though the easiest way to set 
things up may be to have the two be equivalent. It's easy to use MIDI 
1-16 and map them to GPO slots 1-8 and 17-24 so that things will 
playback correctly. In fact, you have to do something like this with 
percussion, which require MIDI 10.





Thanks for persisting with me, Aaron.

I just spent a very frustrating half-hour before I realized that the 
place to change channels isn't the instrument list but is the 
keyboard-like interface of the VST setup (get to the place where you can 
initiate however many instances of GPO you want and then click the EDIT 
button.)  There's a little-tiny midi-port with a channel number next to 
it, just to the right of the LOAD button, just below the instrument's 
patch name and the CPU Usage slot.  Click on that channel number next to 
the midi-port icon (why clicking the icon does nothing is beyond me) and 
you get a list of channels.


Okay, I now see that.

However, when I edit that, a comparable edit is not made in the 
Instrument List window, so if I am configuring a file to play through an 
external device I need to edit that as well.  And the edit there won't 
have any affect on the channel I edit in the GPO dialog.


But if I edit the instrument playback list, even if I am using GPO, and 
so assign a channel that doesn't have a patch loaded, there will be no 
sound.


So it seems that Instrument list edits can affect GPO playback, but GPO 
edits don't always affect Instrument List data.


Interestingly enough, changing the setting to be OMNI, and GPO responds 
to any channel edits I make in Instrument List.  However, if you load 
two different patches and assign them both to OMNI, you get one sound or 
the other for all your staves (I added a second staff and tried it), so 
you're stuck with assigning specific channels to the GPO sounds.


I don't think anybody could explain this behavior, not even Darcy.

In any event, now, Aaron, I do see your point and can understand how a 
person can maintain a single file for any sort of playback, unless your 
score utilizes more than 16 channels and you want to make it playable on 
a standard 16-channel midi playback device, but then that's been true 
ever since MakeMusic expanded midi capability to more than 16 channels 
and there's never been a way around that.


The more I dig to find out what it is people are trying to say to me, 
the more I learn about this GPO stuff.  But I'm not sure anybody could 
make it easy, because it's only by asking the questions which have us 
baffled or stonewalled that some of us are perservering through the 
answers to find some tiny spark of light.


I'm sure it'll come, a much more fluid, fluent understanding, but I'm 
not sure at what price, nor at what a return on investment.  I still 
find the soundfont playback to be perfectly fine for playback and for demos.


After all, we've been reminded that even GPO has its limitations and 
will sound synthetic.  As long as my clients can recognize the 
instruments as being what they're supposed to be (e.g. have a violin 
sound like a violin and not a gameboy sqwauk as used to happen with the 
old FMsynth soundcards), they'll be happy.


Especially since without a larger outlay for samples (full GPO, 
Jazz/BigBand set) and in hardware (I'm already noticing hiccups with my 
1.8GHz P4 with 1GB of ram, if anything is running in the background), we 
won't ever be able to fully realize the potential of this stuff.


So my public thanks to Tyler and Darcy and Aaron and the others who have 
persisted against my granite-brained obstinance -- I can see the 
potential. I can't realize it yet, but I know it's there.


Now let me see, how can I overbill my clients that extra $400 so I can 
buy the full GPO and the Jazz/BigBand set when it's released, and then 
there's that extra money for a larger hard drive to hold the samples and 
more ram so they can be held in memory when needed, and, oh, yes, the 
faster processor which will necessitate a new motherboard.  By my 
calculations, to get the full potential out of this $100 upgrade, it 
should only cost me somewhere around $800 or more.  Yeah, I can pad my 
billing that much, no problem!  Maybe even convince my bank that a 
capital improvement loan for my business would be worthwhile.  :-)


--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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