Re: [Finale] spacing woes
On Nov 3, 2007, at 1:06 PM, dc wrote: I'm doing a multi-movement piece in one file, spacing and laying out the movements as I go along. And now, all of a sudden, piece #5 won't space correctly at all, and I haven't changed anything. The notes are at least twice as tight as they should be. Any ideas what I could have done wrong? I checked the Music spacing options, and nothing seems to have changed. Are the systems locked? Possibly you hit a wrong key and accidentally ran Fit Music and it defaulted to "Lock layout with [4] measures per system"? mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
On Nov 3, 2007, at 5:06 PM, dc wrote: I'm doing a multi-movement piece in one file, spacing and laying out the movements as I go along. And now, all of a sudden, piece #5 won't space correctly at all, and I haven't changed anything. The notes are at least twice as tight as they should be. Any ideas what I could have done wrong? I checked the Music spacing options, and nothing seems to have changed. I doubt you have done anything wrong. I have seen this before, and it appears to be file corruption. It probably starts around where the 5th movement starts, though you could probably pin it down closer if you had to. Funny things start to happen, like bad spacing, ties start acting wonky, you can't delete measure contents, stems aren't connected to noteheads anymore, that kind of thing. You could try adding measures to the end of the document, copying the contents of movement 5 to the later measures, then deleting the corrupted measures. I don't know if this will solve it, though, because this kind of corruption is usually additive; it starts at bar 60 (say) and goes to the end, whether you add new measures or not. Try also copying your 5th movement to a new document temporarily, deleting the corrupted measures from your work document, then adding new fresh measures and then copying your 5th movement back into your file. This might not work either, though. You might have to resort to copying the entire contents of the file to a new document, which means that you lose all that formatting work (unless you only print to the end of movement 4, then movement 5 starts a new document.) I would definitely send this file on to tech support. I have done so every time I see corruption, so they know it is happening. They always say they can't reproduce the problem with a fresh document, but that's kind of the point with file corruption; it just happens once in a while. They might be prodded into creating some new file maintenance routines to fix this kind of thing when it crops up, instead of us losing hours or days of work. If anyone has any other suggestions, please jump in. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
On Sat, November 3, 2007 5:06 pm, dc wrote: > I'm doing a multi-movement piece in one file, spacing and laying out the > movements as I go along. And now, all of a sudden, piece #5 won't space > correctly at all, and I haven't changed anything. The notes are at least > twice as tight as they should be. Any chance you've locked the systems? Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
I noticed that you did not mention testing the file's integrity, & removing deleted items. I would certainly give these routines a try...maybe you'll get lucky. If anyone has any other suggestions, please jump in. Waiting for you guys to answer (for which many thanks), I tried several things, with no luck: - I imported the music spacing options from another document; no change - I tried to respace preceding movements, and they get messed up also - I tried adding measures at the end; no luck - I cleared all the entries from the document and copied the 5th movement as the first; no luck either - I pasted this movement in another document with the same options, and the spacing is correct - I tried a much larger reference width (going from 84 to 300); the spacing is wider, but sill completely crazy, with unexpected collisions. So, I'm afraid you're right, the file is corrupted. I send it to technical support, and I'll let you know what they have to say... I also noticed a few other strange things (before this problem even came up). - in a couple of places, I had two grace notes at the end of a couple of bars; at some time, against my will, these grace notes all jumped after the barline to the beginning of the next bar. So I deleted them and rentered them. But I couldn't respace the music correctly after that. Thanks again for the suggestions. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
On Sun, November 4, 2007 8:05 am, dc wrote: > The only way to get rid of the problem is to copy the contents of the file > in a new one... and lose all the layout and ajusting work already done. One more thought, and I don't have the thread in front of me to check this. I have found that these sorts of problems can be cured by deleting the first offending measure, doing a file data check, and then inserting a new mesure and entering the information again. Deleting the first instance of an offending item seems to cure stuff in Finale. By deleting and creating a fresh measure or item, I've fixed the runaway measure contents corruption and the dotted-line bug in PDF creation. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
On Nov 4, 2007, at 7:25 AM, Lawrence David Eden wrote: I noticed that you did not mention testing the file's integrity, & removing deleted items. I would certainly give these routines a try...maybe you'll get lucky. A nice idea, but these have never helped me out, and I have gotten plenty of file corruption in my time... I doubt Dennis would be helped either. Maybe in a future version... Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
On Nov 4, 2007, at 8:21 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Sun, November 4, 2007 8:05 am, dc wrote: The only way to get rid of the problem is to copy the contents of the file in a new one... and lose all the layout and ajusting work already done. One more thought, and I don't have the thread in front of me to check this. I have found that these sorts of problems can be cured by deleting the first offending measure, doing a file data check, and then inserting a new mesure and entering the information again. Deleting the first instance of an offending item seems to cure stuff in Finale. By deleting and creating a fresh measure or item, I've fixed the runaway measure contents corruption and the dotted-line bug in PDF creation. Hmm, that would mean that you (the original Dennis) would have to delete the measure that messed up the grace notes that you mentioned before. Only having to delete one measure certainly beats my solution of copying ALL the music to a new document! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
On Sun, November 4, 2007 11:03 am, dc wrote: > I'd be tempted to try that, but how do I find the offending measure? Ah, yes, I see. Having dealt with creeping Finale problems before, my panic response sets in immediately. I go back one version and re-enter from there -- which usually isn't too far because I save versions every few measures. But if it crept way back before you saw it, I guess pasting into a brand new file is the only safe solution. I almost lost one huge file a few years ago, but in the halcyon days, one could scan the ASCII ETF files for possible errors and rebuild them by hand. But no more, alas. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
dc wrote: Christopher Smith écrit: I would definitely send this file on to tech support. I have done so every time I see corruption, so they know it is happening. I sent my file to tech support, and, after waiting for nine days, I finally got yesterday a perfectly useless suggestion. I was told to change something in the spacing options, but this had no effect at all on my file, and in any case I had plenty of time to try all these different options while waiting. Since they have the file, I wonder why they didn't try themselves before replying. How did they answer when you asked them this question? ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
dc wrote: I have not had the same problems with spacing as your images had shown, so I am trying to narrow down the possible problems. It seems that something in your preferences may be affecting the Music Spacing results. Let us try clearing your Finale preferences: [suggestions follow to delete finale.ini and finalmid.ini] The problem is only in ONE file, which they have received 11 days ago, along with a screen shot. So how can anyone possibly think that this has to do with my preferences? No, this is nonsense. AFAIK, the INI files contains nothing that would affect the rendering of your docs appart from the path to the Font Annotation folder. Also, the tech support should know that the file for MIDI setup is called FINMIDI.INI. I've been using Finale for some 15 years now, and I find that tech support hasn't really improved... Very few tech supports have improved during the last 15 years. Virtually all commercial software today rely on user-to-user communities (forums, lists, wikis, etc) for things that was support issues back then. Feel free to send the file my way, and I'll try to take a look. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
dc wrote: When I complained recently about missing hyphens, they actually suggested I add them as expressions. I believe that's their way of saying that they know about the bug and that you have to use a workaround until they eventually fix it. OK, I'll send it. I took a look at your file and the frames are indeed corrupted. (I'm a bit curious if you entered the piece all by hand using Simple/Speedy or if you used some import function such as MusicXML import for the data.) Anyway, this should solve your issue: 1. Copy the whole last piece of your file (begiining of page 6 including the upbeat) to a fresh 2-stave file 2. Delete all the measures starting with that upbeat until the end of the document (so the piece now ends at page 5) 3. Go to Document/Data Check/File Maintenance... and do a full scan (the unused frames and entries should now remove according to the statistics) 4. Add a new measure to the end, select it and reinsert your music from the other document 5. Go to the Layout Tool and the adjust system margins Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
Dennis wrote: I've been using Finale for some 15 years now, and I find that tech support hasn't really improved... to which Jari responded, Very few tech supports have improved during the last 15 years. Virtually all commercial software today rely on user-to-user communities (forums, lists, wikis, etc) for things that was support issues back then. and my own take on this is that this is in part because many users know more about the software than many of the tech support people, though this is not (at least in my mind) anything negative about the tech support people. I suspect that few of the tech support positions with most commercial software are filled by people with large amounts of experience, with tech support being, perhaps not an entry level position, but still a position where the persons doing that work know less than the power users who have used it for years. This may be one of the strengths of open source software, in which model some power users are more likely to know the source code better, and perhaps even contribute to it, than would be the case with most commercial software. ns ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
On 14.11.2007 Jari Williamsson wrote: I took a look at your file and the frames are indeed corrupted. (I'm a bit curious if you entered the piece all by hand using Simple/Speedy or if you used some import function such as MusicXML import for the data.) I have a file where one single measure got corrupted and wouldn't space correctly. I never used anything else but speedy to enter the piece. There is definitely something wrong in recent versions, and I am almost certain it is related to linked parts. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
And beat/note handles often fail to appear when using the measure tool. I don't know if this has to do with showing defined measure numbers or not. I haven't checked it out. Is there another explanation for this? I have also been bitten by the explode music bug - when exploding music that has been enharmonically changed in the original staff, the explosion is not only unreliable enharmonically, but it also loses notes! Vigilance is required. Chuck On Nov 15, 2007, at 5:13 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: On Nov 15, 2007, at 2:45 AM, dc wrote: So there is obviously some dreadful bug induced by the "display defined measure numbers" option! (Which caused the time signature to change at the real measure number, and not the displayed measure number, though this measure was the only one selected.) Oh yes! I have certainly seen this one many times! In 2007 and 2008, checking "display defined measure numbers" causes all kinds of problems, especially when you have more than one measure number region, and when you try to go through double- clicking a measure in the Time Sig or Key Sig tools. Strangely, right-clicking in these tools is no problem, but then you can't select a region. Also the Measure tool gives inconsistent results if you try to add double bars when DDMN is checked. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
On Nov 15, 2007, at 2:45 AM, dc wrote: So there is obviously some dreadful bug induced by the "display defined measure numbers" option! (Which caused the time signature to change at the real measure number, and not the displayed measure number, though this measure was the only one selected.) Oh yes! I have certainly seen this one many times! In 2007 and 2008, checking "display defined measure numbers" causes all kinds of problems, especially when you have more than one measure number region, and when you try to go through double-clicking a measure in the Time Sig or Key Sig tools. Strangely, right-clicking in these tools is no problem, but then you can't select a region. Also the Measure tool gives inconsistent results if you try to add double bars when DDMN is checked. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
dc wrote: Johannes Gebauer écrit: There is definitely something wrong in recent versions, and I am almost certain it is related to linked parts. Something wrong also with the "display defined measure numbers" option. I seem to recall others had problems with this, but don't remember the details. The big problem that I have run into is that you can't enter them into the playback controls. Ever since they added the ability to score to film and added the measure:beat:frame ability for initiating playback, we can't enter defined measure numbers such as 3:25 (3rd region, measure 25) and have to use the actual measure numbers. I don't know if there are any other problems. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
FWIW, sometimes when working in FinMac2K7, I can't access beat handles. I've noticed this has something to do with a plugin window being open on my 2nd monitor. Usually TGT or Patterson. Closing that window solves the problem in that case. J D Thomas ThomaStudios On Nov 15, 2007, at 8:01 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: And beat/note handles often fail to appear when using the measure tool. I don't know if this has to do with showing defined measure numbers or not. I haven't checked it out. Is there another explanation for this? I have noticed inconsistencies with the beat handles, but I haven't been able to track down what it is related to. I will keep an eye out for this when using show defined measure numbers, and will report back if I notice anything. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
On 15-Nov-07, at 9:31 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: And beat/note handles often fail to appear when using the measure tool. I don't know if this has to do with showing defined measure numbers or not. I haven't checked it out. Is there another explanation for this? I have noticed inconsistencies with the beat handles, but I haven't been able to track down what it is related to. I will keep an eye out for this when using show defined measure numbers, and will report back if I notice anything. I have also been bitten by the explode music bug - when exploding music that has been enharmonically changed in the original staff, the explosion is not only unreliable enharmonically, but it also loses notes! Vigilance is required. Apparently this is related to using the 9 key in Speedy. If you use any other method, like setting the enharmonic spelling defaults differently, or using Simple Entry, or what I do, entering the note WITHOUT the alteration and then adding it with the + or - key, then the problem is avoided completely. I hope they fix this one real soon! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] spacing woes
dc wrote: Almost two weeks after sending my file to tech support, I am told that they haven't found the solution, but that they've finally noticed the problem! Catching up with the old posts here... Did you send my fix to the problem to them? I think this should be fairly easy to fix, once it gets to the attention of a developer. Also, regarding the multiple measure number regions and the display numbers bug: Has anyone sent in a reproducible-steps procedure of this to tech support? If not, I'll do that. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
