[FRIAM] Corporate responsibility wrt health insurance

[Russ Abbott]

As you know a couple of corporations are objecting the the requirement that
they provide health insurance that includes contraceptive options to their
employees. The argument is that doing so forces the owners of the
corporation to violate their religions beliefs.

There are a number of problems with that argument. Two immediate ones are
that exceptions of that sort can't be bounded. Which religious beliefs
should be protected? Should a corporation be allowed to refuse to buy
insurance unless the doctors agree that only male doctors will treat male
patients and only female doctors will treat female patients as some
religions require? Theses sorts of objections could be elaborated forever.

A different objection to the corporation's argument is that corporations
don't have religious beliefs. So it is not possible to violate them. The
law explicitly distinguishes between a corporation and its owners, who may
have religious beliefs. Corporations are separate legal entities. They are
given certain rights and protections, and are subject to certain legal
requirements. Requiring a corporation to do something is not the same thing
as requiring the owner of the corporation to do that thing.

This (finally) leads to the question I want to ask.  Let's assume that I as
an individual hire 500 people to work for me. I do not incorporate; I just
hire them individual to individual. Does anyone know if the law requires me
to provide health insurance for them?

*-- Russ Abbott*
*_*
*  Professor, Computer Science*
*  California State University, Los Angeles*

*  Google voice: 747-*999-5105;CS Dept.: 323-343-6690
  Google+: *http://GPlus.to/RussAbbott ,*
* http://tinyurl.com/RussAbbott
, or *
* http://google.com/+RussAbbottCa
 *
*  vita:  *sites.google.com/site/russabbott/
  *CS Wiki*  and the courses I teach

*  A draft of "Abstractions and Implementations
"  *
*  How the Fed can fix the economy (**2 pages)**: ssrn.com/abstract=1977688
*
*_*

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Re: [FRIAM] Friday's Friam

[Nick Thompson]

Tom, 

 

St. Johns, this time.  After that we can make plans.  N

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of jtjohnson555
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 10:58 PM
To: Carl Tollander; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Friday's Friam

 

I'd go for the Capital cafe, but I'm flexible

TJ

 

 

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device



 Original message 
From: Carl Tollander 
Date:12/05/2013 10:21 PM (GMT-07:00) 
To: friam@redfish.com   
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Friday's Friam 

Where?

On 11/28/13, 7:40 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

I'll try to get there too .. latish.

 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Frank Wimberly mailto:wimber...@earthlink.net> > wrote:

So, Nick and I plan to arrive at the Capitol Cafe at the usual time (9ish) 
tomorrow morning.

Frank

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone 



 Original Message 
Subject:[FRIAM] Friday's Friam
>From :Nick Thompson 
Date :Tue, 26-Nov-2013 16:43
To :Frank Wimberly 
CC :Friam 

Frank, 

 

Since the St. John’s Coffee shop is closed on Friday, perhaps we might try out 
meeting at The Capitol Café, which is at the old Ohori’s location, next to 
Kaune’s at the intersection of Old Santa Fe Trail and Paseo de Peralta.  They 
have all the usual drinks and some pastries and Burritos, although all of it is 
hired in. The big advantage is that it won’t be jammed.  D.S. is insane at this 
time of year.  

 

Let us know what you think. 

 

Nick 

 

 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 
 

 



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 







FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Friday's Friam

[Nick Thompson]

Hi, Carl,  and all, 

 

We are back at St. Johns for the next two weeks.  After that we will have to
be more resourceful.  I am away for the next two Fridays, the one before,
and the one after X-mas, and so will not be available for cat-herding.  Some
thought Capitol was cozy (acoustics, good, etc.,), others expressed some
nostalgia for Flying Stah (Coffee not much, but lavish food, pancakes,
syrup, etc.) , and the there is always DS, but I never can hear there.  I
don’t know what the situation will be on the Friday AFTER new years day, but
I predict that the St. Johns will also be closed on that day.   So we might
all be thinking about three fridays.  It’s nice to keep the meetings going
because often old friends wander in from far places, and it is nice to see
them again. 

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Carl Tollander
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 10:21 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Friday's Friam

 

Where?

On 11/28/13, 7:40 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

I'll try to get there too .. latish.

 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Frank Wimberly mailto:wimber...@earthlink.net> > wrote:

So, Nick and I plan to arrive at the Capitol Cafe at the usual time (9ish)
tomorrow morning.

Frank

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone 



 Original Message 
Subject:[FRIAM] Friday's Friam
>From :Nick Thompson 
Date :Tue, 26-Nov-2013 16:43
To :Frank Wimberly 
CC :Friam 

Frank, 

 

Since the St. John’s Coffee shop is closed on Friday, perhaps we might try
out meeting at The Capitol Café, which is at the old Ohori’s location, next
to Kaune’s at the intersection of Old Santa Fe Trail and Paseo de Peralta.
They have all the usual drinks and some pastries and Burritos, although all
of it is hired in. The big advantage is that it won’t be jammed.  D.S. is
insane at this time of year.  

 

Let us know what you think. 

 

Nick 

 

 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
 

 



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 







FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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Re: [FRIAM] Friday's Friam

[jtjohnson555]

I'd go for the Capital cafe, but I'm flexible
TJ


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

 Original message 
From: Carl Tollander  
Date:12/05/2013  10:21 PM  (GMT-07:00) 
To: friam@redfish.com 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Friday's Friam 

Where?

On 11/28/13, 7:40 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
I'll try to get there too .. latish.


On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Frank Wimberly  wrote:
So, Nick and I plan to arrive at the Capitol Cafe at the usual time (9ish) 
tomorrow morning.

Frank

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


 Original Message 
Subject:[FRIAM] Friday's Friam
From :Nick Thompson
Date :Tue, 26-Nov-2013 16:43
To :Frank Wimberly
CC :Friam 

Frank,

 

Since the St. John’s Coffee shop is closed on Friday, perhaps we might try out 
meeting at The Capitol Café, which is at the old Ohori’s location, next to 
Kaune’s at the intersection of Old Santa Fe Trail and Paseo de Peralta.  They 
have all the usual drinks and some pastries and Burritos, although all of it is 
hired in. The big advantage is that it won’t be jammed.  D.S. is insane at this 
time of year. 

 

Let us know what you think.

 

Nick

 

 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of   Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com




FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Friday's Friam

[Carl Tollander]

Where?

On 11/28/13, 7:40 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

I'll try to get there too .. latish.


On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Frank Wimberly 
mailto:wimber...@earthlink.net>> wrote:


So, Nick and I plan to arrive at the Capitol Cafe at the usual
time (9ish) tomorrow morning.

Frank

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


 Original Message 
Subject:[FRIAM] Friday's Friam
From :Nick Thompson
Date :Tue, 26-Nov-2013 16:43
To :Frank Wimberly
CC :Friam

Frank,

Since the St. John's Coffee shop is closed on Friday, perhaps we
might try out meeting at The Capitol Café, which is at the old
Ohori's location, next to Kaune's at the intersection of Old Santa
Fe Trail and Paseo de Peralta.  They have all the usual drinks and
some pastries and Burritos, although all of it is hired in. The
big advantage is that it won't be jammed. D.S. is insane at this
time of year.

Let us know what you think.

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/




FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com





FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Git/GitHub Question

[Owen Densmore]

Just looked at it, I like it!

BTW:
http://oli.jp/2011/github-pages-workflow/
is a post on gh-pages and various ways to manage it.  It in turn was one of
several responses from this:
http://lea.verou.me/
which discussed the mirroring approach.

What I REALLY want is a bit further down the first link, below.
git push -f origin master:gh-pages
I tried it and ran into trouble, but I think its the same trouble I
currently have, getting the branches confused.  If it works, I can create a
trivial gh-page from the auto generation tool which simply brings in my
README.md and makes it the content div of the page. I can then not ever
bother with the local gh-pages branch at all!

That'd be nice,

   -- Owen

Merging via git push #

Nicolas Gallagher came across another way to merge master into
gh-pages
 inGitHub’s Help on remotes —
you can push your local master branch to the gh-pagesbranch on GitHub:

git push -f origin master:gh-pages

This would replace the last four steps of Lea’s workflow. Your master branch
needs to be a mirror or subset of the remote gh-pages branch, and it means
if you’ve got the gh-pages branch locally it’ll now be behind GitHub’s
version. However, using this method you can essentially ignore (or not even
have) the gh-pages branch locally.

Thanks to Nicolas Gallagher and Paul Irish for ’splaining this to me
(repeatedly :)

The -f (force) makes the push happen even if the gh-pages branch is newer
(avoiding a “non-fast-forward updates were
rejected”
error). When using this method you shouldn’t be working on gh-pages at all,
so the only time this will happen is if someone else pushes changes ahead
of you. In that case you can merge those changes into your local master and
push the gh-pages branch again. This is the shell script for
force-pushing
 that Move the Web Forward  uses.


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 7:02 PM, Joshua Thorp  wrote:

> One last thing:
>
> I use gitx http://gitx.frim.nl/ a simple little OSX app that has a nice
> graphical display of your history.
>
> Helps to see where you are, when you have multiple branches in the picture.
>
> —joshua
>
> On Dec 5, 2013, at 6:51 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:
>
> Wow, sounds quite possible .. I'll try it this evening or tomorrow.
>
> I'll also see if there's a git history command that'll help clarify things.
>
> Thans!
>
>-- Owen
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Joshua Thorp wrote:
>
>> This looks to me like at some point gh-pages was merged to master.  So
>> that when you deleted “stylesheets" in master,  merging to gh-pages also
>> included this delete action…  My guess is that if you added the stylesheets
>> directory back into gh-pages you wouldn’t ever experience this problem
>> again.
>>
>> —joshua
>>
>> On Dec 5, 2013, at 4:01 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:
>>
>> I thought so too.  But here's an experiment.
>>
>> master dir has this (Attic is in .gitignore and just has stuff removed):
>> *Home|~/src/cs/test3[649]: ls*
>> *Attic README.md junk.txt*
>>
>> while gh-pages has:
>> *Home|~/src/cs/test3[653]: ls*
>> *Attic images javascripts stylesheets*
>> *README.md index.html params.json*
>>
>> I then run this exeriment: go to each branch, check status .. both clean.
>>  Then I try the merge.
>>
>> *Home|~/src/cs/test3[655]: git checkout master*
>> *Switched to branch 'master'*
>>
>>  *Home|~/src/cs/test3[656]: git status*
>> *# On branch master*
>> *nothing to commit, working directory clean*
>>
>> *Home|~/src/cs/test3[657]: git checkout gh-pages*
>> *Switched to branch 'gh-pages'*
>>
>>  *Home|~/src/cs/test3[658]: git status*
>> *# On branch gh-pages*
>> *nothing to commit, working directory clean*
>>
>> *Home|~/src/cs/test3[659]: git merge master*
>> *Removing stylesheets/stylesheet.css*
>> *Removing stylesheets/pygment_trac.css*
>> *Removing params.json*
>> *Removing javascripts/main.js*
>> *CONFLICT (modify/delete): index.html deleted in master and modified in
>> HEAD. Version HEAD of index.html left in tree.*
>> *Removing images/sprite_download.png*
>> *Removing images/icon_download.png*
>> *Removing images/blacktocat.png*
>> *Removing images/bg_hr.png*
>> *Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result.*
>>
>> *Home|~/src/cs/test3[660]: git status*
>> *# On branch gh-pages*
>> *# You have unmerged paths.*
>> *#   (fix conflicts and run "git commit")*
>> *#*
>> *# Changes to be committed:*
>> *#*
>> *# modified:   README.md*
>> *# deleted:images/bg_hr.png*
>> *# deleted:images/blacktocat.png*
>> *# deleted:images/icon_download.png*
>> *# deleted:images/sprite_download.png*
>> *# deleted:javascripts/main.js*
>> *# new file:   junk.txt*
>> *# deleted:params.json*

Re: [FRIAM] Git/GitHub Question

[Joshua Thorp]

One last thing:

I use gitx http://gitx.frim.nl/ a simple little OSX app that has a nice 
graphical display of your history.

Helps to see where you are, when you have multiple branches in the picture.

—joshua

On Dec 5, 2013, at 6:51 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:

> Wow, sounds quite possible .. I'll try it this evening or tomorrow.
> 
> I'll also see if there's a git history command that'll help clarify things.
> 
> Thans!
> 
>-- Owen
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Joshua Thorp  wrote:
> This looks to me like at some point gh-pages was merged to master.  So that 
> when you deleted “stylesheets" in master,  merging to gh-pages also included 
> this delete action…  My guess is that if you added the stylesheets directory 
> back into gh-pages you wouldn’t ever experience this problem again.
> 
> —joshua
> 
> On Dec 5, 2013, at 4:01 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:
> 
>> I thought so too.  But here's an experiment.
>> 
>> master dir has this (Attic is in .gitignore and just has stuff removed):
>> Home|~/src/cs/test3[649]: ls
>> AtticREADME.md   junk.txt
>> 
>> while gh-pages has:
>> Home|~/src/cs/test3[653]: ls
>> Atticimages  javascripts stylesheets
>> README.mdindex.html  params.json
>> 
>> I then run this exeriment: go to each branch, check status .. both clean.  
>> Then I try the merge.
>> 
>> Home|~/src/cs/test3[655]: git checkout master
>> Switched to branch 'master'
>> 
>> Home|~/src/cs/test3[656]: git status
>> # On branch master
>> nothing to commit, working directory clean
>> 
>> Home|~/src/cs/test3[657]: git checkout gh-pages
>> Switched to branch 'gh-pages'
>> 
>> Home|~/src/cs/test3[658]: git status
>> # On branch gh-pages
>> nothing to commit, working directory clean
>> 
>> Home|~/src/cs/test3[659]: git merge master
>> Removing stylesheets/stylesheet.css
>> Removing stylesheets/pygment_trac.css
>> Removing params.json
>> Removing javascripts/main.js
>> CONFLICT (modify/delete): index.html deleted in master and modified in HEAD. 
>> Version HEAD of index.html left in tree.
>> Removing images/sprite_download.png
>> Removing images/icon_download.png
>> Removing images/blacktocat.png
>> Removing images/bg_hr.png
>> Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result.
>> 
>> Home|~/src/cs/test3[660]: git status
>> # On branch gh-pages
>> # You have unmerged paths.
>> #   (fix conflicts and run "git commit")
>> #
>> # Changes to be committed:
>> #
>> #modified:   README.md
>> #deleted:images/bg_hr.png
>> #deleted:images/blacktocat.png
>> #deleted:images/icon_download.png
>> #deleted:images/sprite_download.png
>> #deleted:javascripts/main.js
>> #new file:   junk.txt
>> #deleted:params.json
>> #deleted:stylesheets/pygment_trac.css
>> #deleted:stylesheets/stylesheet.css
>> #
>> # Unmerged paths:
>> #   (use "git add/rm ..." as appropriate to mark resolution)
>> #
>> #deleted by them:index.html
>> #
>> 
>> And the resulting gh-pages looks like:
>> Home|~/src/cs/test3[661]: ls
>> AtticREADME.md   index.html  javascripts junk.txt
>> 
>> So yes, it did merge README.md and junk.txt but for some reason deleted 
>> images, javascripts/main, stylsheets and params.json.
>> 
>> I guess there's a configuration problems somewhere.  Maybe the way I pulled 
>> the gh-pages after creating the website on github?  I bet that's it.  But I 
>> did add . and commit in gh-pages and it all worked with a dummy README.md 
>> initially.
>> 
>> The test site is here: 
>> http://backspaces.github.io/test/
>> and the gh-pages here, with a dummy README
>> https://github.com/backspaces/test
>> 
>> Thanks for the reinforcement, however .. I should go thru all the steps 
>> 1-at-a-time and see if there's anything odd there.
>> 
>>-- Owen
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Joshua Thorp  wrote:
>> Owen,
>> 
>> Looks like you have things working just how you want them to.  You can keep 
>> working in your master branch and whenever you want to update gh-pages,
>> 
>> git checkout gh-pages
>> git merge master
>> 
>> done.
>> 
>> 
>> So long as you never merge gh-pages into master you are golden.
>> 
>> —joshua
>> 
>> On Dec 4, 2013, at 9:19 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:
>> 
>>> This should be easy but I haven't figured out a solution yet.
>>> 
>>> I have a repository (repo), agentscript.  It has not only the core code and 
>>> "plugins" but docs, models, and js/min.js files which require hosting .. 
>>> i.e. something that can "serve" these html/js files.
>>> 
>>> GHPages, the github project hosting service provides this.  GHPages works 
>>> by having a branch, gh-pages, which is stored on their hosting service (not 
>>> their project site)
>>> 
>>> But to use their hosting service and nifty templates, there are several, 5, 
>>> extra files/folders generated and live in the branch
>>> 
>>> I'd like to maintain the branch separately, with the 5 

Re: [FRIAM] Git/GitHub Question

[Owen Densmore]

Wow, sounds quite possible .. I'll try it this evening or tomorrow.

I'll also see if there's a git history command that'll help clarify things.

Thans!

   -- Owen


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Joshua Thorp  wrote:

> This looks to me like at some point gh-pages was merged to master.  So
> that when you deleted “stylesheets" in master,  merging to gh-pages also
> included this delete action…  My guess is that if you added the stylesheets
> directory back into gh-pages you wouldn’t ever experience this problem
> again.
>
> —joshua
>
> On Dec 5, 2013, at 4:01 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:
>
> I thought so too.  But here's an experiment.
>
> master dir has this (Attic is in .gitignore and just has stuff removed):
> *Home|~/src/cs/test3[649]: ls*
> *Attic README.md junk.txt*
>
> while gh-pages has:
> *Home|~/src/cs/test3[653]: ls*
> *Attic images javascripts stylesheets*
> *README.md index.html params.json*
>
> I then run this exeriment: go to each branch, check status .. both clean.
>  Then I try the merge.
>
> *Home|~/src/cs/test3[655]: git checkout master*
> *Switched to branch 'master'*
>
>  *Home|~/src/cs/test3[656]: git status*
> *# On branch master*
> *nothing to commit, working directory clean*
>
> *Home|~/src/cs/test3[657]: git checkout gh-pages*
> *Switched to branch 'gh-pages'*
>
>  *Home|~/src/cs/test3[658]: git status*
> *# On branch gh-pages*
> *nothing to commit, working directory clean*
>
> *Home|~/src/cs/test3[659]: git merge master*
> *Removing stylesheets/stylesheet.css*
> *Removing stylesheets/pygment_trac.css*
> *Removing params.json*
> *Removing javascripts/main.js*
> *CONFLICT (modify/delete): index.html deleted in master and modified in
> HEAD. Version HEAD of index.html left in tree.*
> *Removing images/sprite_download.png*
> *Removing images/icon_download.png*
> *Removing images/blacktocat.png*
> *Removing images/bg_hr.png*
> *Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result.*
>
> *Home|~/src/cs/test3[660]: git status*
> *# On branch gh-pages*
> *# You have unmerged paths.*
> *#   (fix conflicts and run "git commit")*
> *#*
> *# Changes to be committed:*
> *#*
> *# modified:   README.md*
> *# deleted:images/bg_hr.png*
> *# deleted:images/blacktocat.png*
> *# deleted:images/icon_download.png*
> *# deleted:images/sprite_download.png*
> *# deleted:javascripts/main.js*
> *# new file:   junk.txt*
> *# deleted:params.json*
> *# deleted:stylesheets/pygment_trac.css*
> *# deleted:stylesheets/stylesheet.css*
> *#*
> *# Unmerged paths:*
> *#   (use "git add/rm ..." as appropriate to mark resolution)*
> *#*
> *# deleted by them:index.html*
> *#*
>
> And the resulting gh-pages looks like:
> *Home|~/src/cs/test3[661]: ls*
> *Attic README.md index.html javascripts junk.txt*
>
> So yes, it did merge README.md and junk.txt but for some reason deleted
> images, javascripts/main, stylsheets and params.json.
>
> I guess there's a configuration problems somewhere.  Maybe the way I
> pulled the gh-pages after creating the website on github?  I bet that's it.
>  But I did add . and commit in gh-pages and it all worked with a dummy
> README.md initially.
>
> The test site is here:
> http://backspaces.github.io/test/
> and the gh-pages here, with a dummy README
> https://github.com/backspaces/test
>
> Thanks for the reinforcement, however .. I should go thru all the steps
> 1-at-a-time and see if there's anything odd there.
>
>-- Owen
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Joshua Thorp wrote:
>
>> Owen,
>>
>> Looks like you have things working just how you want them to.  You can
>> keep working in your master branch and whenever you want to update gh-pages,
>>
>> git checkout gh-pages
>> git merge master
>>
>> done.
>>
>>
>> So long as you never merge gh-pages into master you are golden.
>>
>> —joshua
>>
>> On Dec 4, 2013, at 9:19 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:
>>
>> This should be easy but I haven't figured out a solution yet.
>>
>> I have a repository (repo), agentscript.  It has not only the core code
>> and "plugins" but docs, models, and js/min.js files which require hosting
>> .. i.e. something that can "serve" these html/js files.
>>
>> GHPages, the github project hosting service provides this.  GHPages works
>> by having a branch, gh-pages, which is stored on their hosting service (not
>> their project site)
>>
>> But to use their hosting service and nifty templates, there are several,
>> 5, extra files/folders generated and live in the branch
>>
>> I'd like to maintain the branch separately, with the 5 extra
>> files/folders, and periodically add all of the main/master repo to this.  I
>> believe the branches would have to remain separate, even tho sharing most
>> of their files.
>>
>> Git merge won't work, I think.  If I merge the master into the branch,
>> the branch becomes the master, and I no longer have separation between the
>> two .. and I pollute the master repo with the extra web service files.
>>
>> Is there a git trick that would

Re: [FRIAM] [WedTech] linux and winderz

[Gillian Densmore]

Sure do. Some trojans and rootkit kind of things it misses.



On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote:

> Do you have Microsoft Security Essentials installed? It's free and seems
> to offer excellent protection.
>
> Bruce
>
> ___
> Wedtech mailing list
> wedt...@redfish.com
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/wedtech_redfish.com
>
>

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Re: [FRIAM] King James Programming

[Roger Critchlow]

Charles Stross (twitter @cstross) trained up his own off the KJV and the
compete works of H P Lovecraft: "the strangely open doorway with the
generation of poets is enormous."

-- rec --


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:15 PM, glen  wrote:

>
> Given our ongoing discussion of nonsense and verbosity:
>
> > Posts generated by a Markov chain trained on the King James Bible and
> Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs. Run by Michael Walker
> (barrucadu).
> > http://kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com/
>
> --
> =><= glen
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Managing large numbers of passwords

[Steve Smith]

On 12/5/13 12:08 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Steve Smith >wrote:


150, 240, 900 !?

?!What!?  are you guys addicted to?   Including PINs for
bank-cards (not used online) I can't estimate over a dozen or two
myself.


Exactly!  But you do have > 100 and you know it

I really don't...
 How many on-line gifts?  How many forums, even for trivial use? How 
many mail lists? How many bank, credit card, paypal logins?  Amazon? 
 Google? Moocs? Travel related? Airlines? NetFlix/Hulu/iTunes? Gmail? 
Dropbox? GitHub? Clothing? Shopping in general? NYTimes and other news 
sources? LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, G+, ...
I use the G constellation with one password (one of it's features)... I 
don't Yahoo.  I don't Mooc, I use only Southwest Airlines (and while I 
have a "rapid rewards number" I don't have a password/account)... I have 
a Mac account which covers iTunes/apps/stuff... my wife has the Netflix 
account, no Hulu, no Facebewk, recently re-linked in... use Google Drive 
(see above) .  I don't shop,and I don't read anything with a paywall ($6 
NYT Sunday old fashioned newsprint at Tesuque Village Market most 
weeks... need it for firestarter in my woodstoves)...


I could go on but dozens.  I seriously, Seriously doubt it.

OK maybe hundreds over decades, but ... current?


Not so fast, mister!  They're still there and very hackable.
no, some services/servers are long gone, but yes, I could lose my login 
on some of the "throwaways" but I've lost nothing of value to me...  
usually a psuedonymous ID and one of my Hashwords.  If someone gathered 
all my abandoned psuedonymic throwaways and Hashwords and cracked them 
they might begin to get a hint of my hashWord algorithm.   Remember, 
until 5 years ago I lived behind firewalls and proxies and close 
scrutiny... I just didn't sign up for much.


Admittedly, I have probably cranked through a similar number of
"throwaways" where I've signed up for something (because that is
the only way to sample/test) and then let the login die or go
fallow (and my hashword) with it.But hundreds?  Really? I'm
worried about you guys!  They have groups and 12 step programs for
things like this!


Login die?  You sure?  And indeed, how many folks can "delete" an 
account?  Most don't have an obvious way do do so.
Yes, not all dead, deprecated in the sense that I haven't logged since 
the first 1,2, 3 times to realize that said service wasn't very useful 
to me... and again... psuedonym (my favorites are word scrambles of 
"Owen Densmore" or "Doug Roberts" ;)


As for mnemonics or mental-hash-generators (hashwords?)... my
decades of high security environments where writing my password
down anywhere (including or especially electronically) or sharing
it with anyone (e.g. speaking it aloud) was a felony or low
treason or something, I just can't stand to see a password in
clear text... it makes me cringe...   so a whole spreadsheet of my
family jewels... I just couldn't...

I only wish there were a 2-factor system for the masses that isn't
spoofable (the ones that use your Mac address of your device are
better than nothing but not unspoofable by far).

- Steve


I am so worried about you guy who don't know just how many logins you 
have!  :
grin... touche... I will maybe inventory, but you can bet I won't write 
them (passwords) down...


- Steve

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[FRIAM] King James Programming

[glen]

Given our ongoing discussion of nonsense and verbosity:

> Posts generated by a Markov chain trained on the King James Bible and 
> Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs. Run by Michael Walker 
> (barrucadu).
> http://kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com/

-- 
⇒⇐ glen


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Re: [FRIAM] Git/GitHub Question

[Joshua Thorp]

This looks to me like at some point gh-pages was merged to master.  So that 
when you deleted “stylesheets" in master,  merging to gh-pages also included 
this delete action…  My guess is that if you added the stylesheets directory 
back into gh-pages you wouldn’t ever experience this problem again.

—joshua

On Dec 5, 2013, at 4:01 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:

> I thought so too.  But here's an experiment.
> 
> master dir has this (Attic is in .gitignore and just has stuff removed):
> Home|~/src/cs/test3[649]: ls
> Attic README.md   junk.txt
> 
> while gh-pages has:
> Home|~/src/cs/test3[653]: ls
> Attic images  javascripts stylesheets
> README.md index.html  params.json
> 
> I then run this exeriment: go to each branch, check status .. both clean.  
> Then I try the merge.
> 
> Home|~/src/cs/test3[655]: git checkout master
> Switched to branch 'master'
> 
> Home|~/src/cs/test3[656]: git status
> # On branch master
> nothing to commit, working directory clean
> 
> Home|~/src/cs/test3[657]: git checkout gh-pages
> Switched to branch 'gh-pages'
> 
> Home|~/src/cs/test3[658]: git status
> # On branch gh-pages
> nothing to commit, working directory clean
> 
> Home|~/src/cs/test3[659]: git merge master
> Removing stylesheets/stylesheet.css
> Removing stylesheets/pygment_trac.css
> Removing params.json
> Removing javascripts/main.js
> CONFLICT (modify/delete): index.html deleted in master and modified in HEAD. 
> Version HEAD of index.html left in tree.
> Removing images/sprite_download.png
> Removing images/icon_download.png
> Removing images/blacktocat.png
> Removing images/bg_hr.png
> Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result.
> 
> Home|~/src/cs/test3[660]: git status
> # On branch gh-pages
> # You have unmerged paths.
> #   (fix conflicts and run "git commit")
> #
> # Changes to be committed:
> #
> # modified:   README.md
> # deleted:images/bg_hr.png
> # deleted:images/blacktocat.png
> # deleted:images/icon_download.png
> # deleted:images/sprite_download.png
> # deleted:javascripts/main.js
> # new file:   junk.txt
> # deleted:params.json
> # deleted:stylesheets/pygment_trac.css
> # deleted:stylesheets/stylesheet.css
> #
> # Unmerged paths:
> #   (use "git add/rm ..." as appropriate to mark resolution)
> #
> # deleted by them:index.html
> #
> 
> And the resulting gh-pages looks like:
> Home|~/src/cs/test3[661]: ls
> Attic README.md   index.html  javascripts junk.txt
> 
> So yes, it did merge README.md and junk.txt but for some reason deleted 
> images, javascripts/main, stylsheets and params.json.
> 
> I guess there's a configuration problems somewhere.  Maybe the way I pulled 
> the gh-pages after creating the website on github?  I bet that's it.  But I 
> did add . and commit in gh-pages and it all worked with a dummy README.md 
> initially.
> 
> The test site is here: 
> http://backspaces.github.io/test/
> and the gh-pages here, with a dummy README
> https://github.com/backspaces/test
> 
> Thanks for the reinforcement, however .. I should go thru all the steps 
> 1-at-a-time and see if there's anything odd there.
> 
>-- Owen
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Joshua Thorp  wrote:
> Owen,
> 
> Looks like you have things working just how you want them to.  You can keep 
> working in your master branch and whenever you want to update gh-pages,
> 
> git checkout gh-pages
> git merge master
> 
> done.
> 
> 
> So long as you never merge gh-pages into master you are golden.
> 
> —joshua
> 
> On Dec 4, 2013, at 9:19 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:
> 
>> This should be easy but I haven't figured out a solution yet.
>> 
>> I have a repository (repo), agentscript.  It has not only the core code and 
>> "plugins" but docs, models, and js/min.js files which require hosting .. 
>> i.e. something that can "serve" these html/js files.
>> 
>> GHPages, the github project hosting service provides this.  GHPages works by 
>> having a branch, gh-pages, which is stored on their hosting service (not 
>> their project site)
>> 
>> But to use their hosting service and nifty templates, there are several, 5, 
>> extra files/folders generated and live in the branch
>> 
>> I'd like to maintain the branch separately, with the 5 extra files/folders, 
>> and periodically add all of the main/master repo to this.  I believe the 
>> branches would have to remain separate, even tho sharing most of their files.
>> 
>> Git merge won't work, I think.  If I merge the master into the branch, the 
>> branch becomes the master, and I no longer have separation between the two 
>> .. and I pollute the master repo with the extra web service files.
>> 
>> Is there a git trick that would let me maintain two separate branches, and 
>> periodically "merge" the master files into the branch, yet keep the 5 branch 
>> web service files/folders out of the master?
>> 
>> Oh, in addition, th

Re: [FRIAM] Git/GitHub Question

[Owen Densmore]

I thought so too.  But here's an experiment.

master dir has this (Attic is in .gitignore and just has stuff removed):
*Home|~/src/cs/test3[649]: ls*
*Attic README.md junk.txt*

while gh-pages has:
*Home|~/src/cs/test3[653]: ls*
*Attic images javascripts stylesheets*
*README.md index.html params.json*

I then run this exeriment: go to each branch, check status .. both clean.
 Then I try the merge.

*Home|~/src/cs/test3[655]: git checkout master*
*Switched to branch 'master'*

*Home|~/src/cs/test3[656]: git status*
*# On branch master*
*nothing to commit, working directory clean*

*Home|~/src/cs/test3[657]: git checkout gh-pages*
*Switched to branch 'gh-pages'*

*Home|~/src/cs/test3[658]: git status*
*# On branch gh-pages*
*nothing to commit, working directory clean*

*Home|~/src/cs/test3[659]: git merge master*
*Removing stylesheets/stylesheet.css*
*Removing stylesheets/pygment_trac.css*
*Removing params.json*
*Removing javascripts/main.js*
*CONFLICT (modify/delete): index.html deleted in master and modified in
HEAD. Version HEAD of index.html left in tree.*
*Removing images/sprite_download.png*
*Removing images/icon_download.png*
*Removing images/blacktocat.png*
*Removing images/bg_hr.png*
*Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result.*

*Home|~/src/cs/test3[660]: git status*
*# On branch gh-pages*
*# You have unmerged paths.*
*#   (fix conflicts and run "git commit")*
*#*
*# Changes to be committed:*
*#*
*# modified:   README.md*
*# deleted:images/bg_hr.png*
*# deleted:images/blacktocat.png*
*# deleted:images/icon_download.png*
*# deleted:images/sprite_download.png*
*# deleted:javascripts/main.js*
*# new file:   junk.txt*
*# deleted:params.json*
*# deleted:stylesheets/pygment_trac.css*
*# deleted:stylesheets/stylesheet.css*
*#*
*# Unmerged paths:*
*#   (use "git add/rm ..." as appropriate to mark resolution)*
*#*
*# deleted by them:index.html*
*#*

And the resulting gh-pages looks like:
*Home|~/src/cs/test3[661]: ls*
*Attic README.md index.html javascripts junk.txt*

So yes, it did merge README.md and junk.txt but for some reason deleted
images, javascripts/main, stylsheets and params.json.

I guess there's a configuration problems somewhere.  Maybe the way I pulled
the gh-pages after creating the website on github?  I bet that's it.  But I
did add . and commit in gh-pages and it all worked with a dummy README.md
initially.

The test site is here:
http://backspaces.github.io/test/
and the gh-pages here, with a dummy README
https://github.com/backspaces/test

Thanks for the reinforcement, however .. I should go thru all the steps
1-at-a-time and see if there's anything odd there.

   -- Owen


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Joshua Thorp  wrote:

> Owen,
>
> Looks like you have things working just how you want them to.  You can
> keep working in your master branch and whenever you want to update gh-pages,
>
> git checkout gh-pages
> git merge master
>
> done.
>
>
> So long as you never merge gh-pages into master you are golden.
>
> —joshua
>
> On Dec 4, 2013, at 9:19 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:
>
> This should be easy but I haven't figured out a solution yet.
>
> I have a repository (repo), agentscript.  It has not only the core code
> and "plugins" but docs, models, and js/min.js files which require hosting
> .. i.e. something that can "serve" these html/js files.
>
> GHPages, the github project hosting service provides this.  GHPages works
> by having a branch, gh-pages, which is stored on their hosting service (not
> their project site)
>
> But to use their hosting service and nifty templates, there are several,
> 5, extra files/folders generated and live in the branch
>
> I'd like to maintain the branch separately, with the 5 extra
> files/folders, and periodically add all of the main/master repo to this.  I
> believe the branches would have to remain separate, even tho sharing most
> of their files.
>
> Git merge won't work, I think.  If I merge the master into the branch, the
> branch becomes the master, and I no longer have separation between the two
> .. and I pollute the master repo with the extra web service files.
>
> Is there a git trick that would let me maintain two separate branches, and
> periodically "merge" the master files into the branch, yet keep the 5
> branch web service files/folders out of the master?
>
> Oh, in addition, the server files need no updating at all after their
> initial creation.  They simply use the project README.md for their
> "content".
>
>-- Owen
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_red

Re: [FRIAM] Managing large numbers of passwords

[Gillian Densmore]

I don't see storing your varius  personas in one location helps. Surely you
see the irony ^_^ .


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Carl Tollander  wrote:
>
>>  Yeah, I'm about at 5-10 in regular use.Stuff I don't use much if at
>> all, maybe 20.   Moderation in all things.
>>
>
> OK so you don't have a mail account?  Oops, clearly so.  Google?
>  Probably.  Amazon?
>
> I'd be willing to bet 20 is just silly.
>
>-- Owen
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

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Re: [FRIAM] Managing large numbers of passwords

[Roger Critchlow]

I agree, I considered a subpoena for the browser password management page
to see how many "accounts" are being hidden by these scoundrels.

-- rec --


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Carl Tollander  wrote:
>
>>  Yeah, I'm about at 5-10 in regular use.Stuff I don't use much if at
>> all, maybe 20.   Moderation in all things.
>>
>
> OK so you don't have a mail account?  Oops, clearly so.  Google?
>  Probably.  Amazon?
>
> I'd be willing to bet 20 is just silly.
>
>-- Owen
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

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Re: [FRIAM] Git/GitHub Question

[Joshua Thorp]

Owen,

Looks like you have things working just how you want them to.  You can keep 
working in your master branch and whenever you want to update gh-pages,

git checkout gh-pages
git merge master

done.


So long as you never merge gh-pages into master you are golden.

—joshua

On Dec 4, 2013, at 9:19 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:

> This should be easy but I haven't figured out a solution yet.
> 
> I have a repository (repo), agentscript.  It has not only the core code and 
> "plugins" but docs, models, and js/min.js files which require hosting .. i.e. 
> something that can "serve" these html/js files.
> 
> GHPages, the github project hosting service provides this.  GHPages works by 
> having a branch, gh-pages, which is stored on their hosting service (not 
> their project site)
> 
> But to use their hosting service and nifty templates, there are several, 5, 
> extra files/folders generated and live in the branch
> 
> I'd like to maintain the branch separately, with the 5 extra files/folders, 
> and periodically add all of the main/master repo to this.  I believe the 
> branches would have to remain separate, even tho sharing most of their files.
> 
> Git merge won't work, I think.  If I merge the master into the branch, the 
> branch becomes the master, and I no longer have separation between the two .. 
> and I pollute the master repo with the extra web service files.
> 
> Is there a git trick that would let me maintain two separate branches, and 
> periodically "merge" the master files into the branch, yet keep the 5 branch 
> web service files/folders out of the master?
> 
> Oh, in addition, the server files need no updating at all after their initial 
> creation.  They simply use the project README.md for their "content".
> 
>-- Owen
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


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Re: [FRIAM] Managing large numbers of passwords

[Owen Densmore]

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Carl Tollander  wrote:

>  Yeah, I'm about at 5-10 in regular use.Stuff I don't use much if at
> all, maybe 20.   Moderation in all things.
>

OK so you don't have a mail account?  Oops, clearly so.  Google?  Probably.
 Amazon?

I'd be willing to bet 20 is just silly.

   -- Owen

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Re: [FRIAM] Managing large numbers of passwords

[Carl Tollander]

Yeah, I'm about at 5-10 in regular use.Stuff I don't use much if at 
all, maybe 20.   Moderation in all things.


On 12/5/13, 11:20 AM, Steve Smith wrote:

150, 240, 900 !?

?!What!?  are you guys addicted to?   Including PINs for bank-cards 
(not used online) I can't estimate over a dozen or two myself.  OK 
maybe hundreds over decades, but ... current? Admittedly, I have 
probably cranked through a similar number of "throwaways" where I've 
signed up for something (because that is the only way to sample/test) 
and then let the login die or go fallow (and my hashword) with it.
But hundreds?  Really?  I'm worried about you guys!  They have groups 
and 12 step programs for things like this!


As for mnemonics or mental-hash-generators (hashwords?)... my decades 
of high security environments where writing my password down anywhere 
(including or especially electronically) or sharing it with anyone 
(e.g. speaking it aloud) was a felony or low treason or something, I 
just can't stand to see a password in clear text... it makes me 
cringe...   so a whole spreadsheet of my family jewels... I just 
couldn't...


I only wish there were a 2-factor system for the masses that isn't 
spoofable (the ones that use your Mac address of your device are 
better than nothing but not unspoofable by far).


- Steve

~240 accounts stored in keepass.

-- rec --


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Owen Densmore > wrote:


Just out of curiosity, how many of us have a reasonable idea of
the number of logins we have?  At a guess, I'd say I have over
200 simply because over the last year I have logged 150+ in
1Password.

One good source, btw, is the monthly mail-list reminders.

   -- Owen


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Joseph Spinden mailto:j...@qri.us>> wrote:

I certainly do not want to rely on mnemonics, and I find it
(almost) astonishing that people would devote time to
developing a mnemonic method.  I long ago came up with a
simple two-step device to keep track of my 100's of
passwords: It is called a spreadsheet.  All you need to
remember is the password to get into the spreadsheet.  This
is my "key chain".  My method only works on a device where I
can access my spreadsheet, but that is not an issue for me. I
think this could be easily adapted to other devices, were I
so motivated.

Joe



On 12/4/13, 12:09 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:

In my as yet brief use of LastPass, it is very good on my
Mac (and probably equally good on Windows). I haven't yet
even tried it on my iPad or iPhone, but the problem there
is that mobile Safari doesn't support plugins, so the
kinds of content rewriting that the plugins must do to
work seamlessly with the browser can't be implemented. I
don't know if this is just a problem with Safari, but it
seems to be a restriction with iOS generally, being a
highly restricted ecosystem. I suppose Android would be
less restrictive, although I don't have any experience
with it.

Gary

On Dec 4, 2013, at 1:56 PM, Owen Densmore
mailto:o...@backspaces.net>> wrote:

Agreed.  And do you know one of the biggest problems?
 Phones!

Yes, 1Password and others run on phones, but mainly
for browser logins.

Then cam "apps".  Browser's could't keep up with the
demands of phone apps so the devs had to go to
"native" apps, or more general PhoneGap type apps.
 Yes iP can work with them but you have to cut/paste
to use them which is a total pain in the rear.

Possibly apple's new phones with thumb recognition
will simplify things .. you'll have a "key chain" in
the sky.  But it'll be broken by the bad guys too, I
guess.  And depends on the apple ecology which I find
too incomplete compared with google.

-- Owen


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Gary Schiltz
mailto:g...@naturesvisualarts.com>> wrote:
More to the point, our brains are too small and our
years too few to fill with mindless drivel. Better to
use them writing poetry, creating a better world, or
even reading and writing FRIAM posts :-)

On Dec 4, 2013, at 1:45 PM, Owen Densmore
mailto:o...@backspaces.net>> wrote:

My brain is too small.

-- Owen


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Re: [FRIAM] Managing large numbers of passwords

[glen e. p. ropella]

Well, I have a 50k ascii file with all my passwords and "security
questions" in it.  It's ~800 lines long, but that doesn't mean 800
accounts, since some accounts require lots of security questions.  Plus,
I keep track of some old passwords after I change them and such.  I keep
this file encrypted with GPG.  I shred

the unencrypted file each time I edit it... but it's not clear to me
whether an unencrypted copy hangs around for awhile or not... plus, one
of my machines uses SSD, which presents some issues
 of its
own.

But in the wake of this story
 and
the Pony story
, I
decided to change a bunch of my passwords today.

Does anyone have the data for the SSH credentials that were compromised?
 I can't imagine mine would be in there.  But it did remind me that I
don't have a practical policy for updating those.


On 12/05/2013 11:08 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Steve Smith  wrote:
> 
>>  150, 240, 900 !?
>>
>> ?!What!?  are you guys addicted to?   Including PINs for bank-cards (not
>> used online) I can't estimate over a dozen or two myself.
>>
> 
> Exactly!  But you do have > 100 and you know it!  How many on-line gifts?
>  How many forums, even for trivial use? How many mail lists? How many bank,
> credit card, paypal logins?  Amazon?  Google? Moocs? Travel related?
> Airlines? NetFlix/Hulu/iTunes? Gmail? Dropbox? GitHub? Clothing? Shopping
> in general? NYTimes and other news sources? LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter,
> G+, ...
> 
> I could go on but dozens.  I seriously, Seriously doubt it.
> 
> 
>> OK maybe hundreds over decades, but ... current?
>>
> 
> Not so fast, mister!  They're still there and very hackable.
> 
> 
>> Admittedly, I have probably cranked through a similar number of
>> "throwaways" where I've signed up for something (because that is the only
>> way to sample/test) and then let the login die or go fallow (and my
>> hashword) with it.But hundreds?  Really?  I'm worried about you guys!
>> They have groups and 12 step programs for things like this!
>>
> 
> Login die?  You sure?  And indeed, how many folks can "delete" an account?
>  Most don't have an obvious way do do so.
> 
> 
>> As for mnemonics or mental-hash-generators (hashwords?)... my decades of
>> high security environments where writing my password down anywhere
>> (including or especially electronically) or sharing it with anyone (e.g.
>> speaking it aloud) was a felony or low treason or something, I just can't
>> stand to see a password in clear text... it makes me cringe...   so a whole
>> spreadsheet of my family jewels... I just couldn't...
>>
>> I only wish there were a 2-factor system for the masses that isn't
>> spoofable (the ones that use your Mac address of your device are better
>> than nothing but not unspoofable by far).
>>
>> - Steve
>>
> 
> I am so worried about you guy who don't know just how many logins you have!
>  :)
> 
>-- Owen
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Steve Smith  >wrote:
> 
> 150, 240, 900 !?
> 
> ?!What!?  are you guys addicted to?   Including PINs for bank-cards
> (not used online) I can't estimate over a dozen or two myself.  
> 
> 
> Exactly!  But you do have > 100 and you know it!  How many on-line
> gifts?  How many forums, even for trivial use? How many mail lists? How
> many bank, credit card, paypal logins?  Amazon?  Google? Moocs? Travel
> related? Airlines? NetFlix/Hulu/iTunes? Gmail? Dropbox? GitHub?
> Clothing? Shopping in general? NYTimes and other news sources? LinkedIn,
> Facebook, Twitter, G+, ...
> 
> I could go on but dozens.  I seriously, Seriously doubt it.
> 
> OK maybe hundreds over decades, but ... current?   
> 
> 
> Not so fast, mister!  They're still there and very hackable.
> 
> Admittedly, I have probably cranked through a similar number of
> "throwaways" where I've signed up for something (because that is the
> only way to sample/test) and then let the login die or go fallow
> (and my hashword) with it.But hundreds?  Really?  I'm worried
> about you guys!  They have groups and 12 step programs for things
> like this!
> 
> 
> Login die?  You sure?  And indeed, how many folks can "delete" an
> account?  Most don't have an obvious way do do so.
> 
> As for mnemonics or mental-hash-generators (hashwords?)... my
> decades of high security environments where writing my password down
> anywhere (including or especially electronically) or sharing it with
> anyone (e.g. speaking it aloud) was a felony or low treason or
> something, I just can't stand to see a password in clear text... it
> makes me cringe...   so a whole spreadsheet of my family j

Re: [FRIAM] Managing large numbers of passwords

[Gillian Densmore]

I see steves side of things. I have I think 3 user names I might use. One
password I vary. The one I'm most concerned about is the seemingly low
grade of  security Del Norte.


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Steve Smith  wrote:
>
>>  150, 240, 900 !?
>>
>> ?!What!?  are you guys addicted to?   Including PINs for bank-cards (not
>> used online) I can't estimate over a dozen or two myself.
>>
>
> Exactly!  But you do have > 100 and you know it!  How many on-line gifts?
>  How many forums, even for trivial use? How many mail lists? How many bank,
> credit card, paypal logins?  Amazon?  Google? Moocs? Travel related?
> Airlines? NetFlix/Hulu/iTunes? Gmail? Dropbox? GitHub? Clothing? Shopping
> in general? NYTimes and other news sources? LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter,
> G+, ...
>
> I could go on but dozens.  I seriously, Seriously doubt it.
>
>> OK maybe hundreds over decades, but ... current?
>>
>
> Not so fast, mister!  They're still there and very hackable.
>
>> Admittedly, I have probably cranked through a similar number of
>> "throwaways" where I've signed up for something (because that is the only
>> way to sample/test) and then let the login die or go fallow (and my
>> hashword) with it.But hundreds?  Really?  I'm worried about you guys!
>> They have groups and 12 step programs for things like this!
>>
>
> Login die?  You sure?  And indeed, how many folks can "delete" an account?
>  Most don't have an obvious way do do so.
>
>>  As for mnemonics or mental-hash-generators (hashwords?)... my decades of
>> high security environments where writing my password down anywhere
>> (including or especially electronically) or sharing it with anyone (e.g.
>> speaking it aloud) was a felony or low treason or something, I just can't
>> stand to see a password in clear text... it makes me cringe...   so a whole
>> spreadsheet of my family jewels... I just couldn't...
>>
>> I only wish there were a 2-factor system for the masses that isn't
>> spoofable (the ones that use your Mac address of your device are better
>> than nothing but not unspoofable by far).
>>
>> - Steve
>>
>
> I am so worried about you guy who don't know just how many logins you
> have!  :)
>
>-- Owen
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

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Re: [FRIAM] Managing large numbers of passwords

[Owen Densmore]

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Steve Smith  wrote:

>  150, 240, 900 !?
>
> ?!What!?  are you guys addicted to?   Including PINs for bank-cards (not
> used online) I can't estimate over a dozen or two myself.
>

Exactly!  But you do have > 100 and you know it!  How many on-line gifts?
 How many forums, even for trivial use? How many mail lists? How many bank,
credit card, paypal logins?  Amazon?  Google? Moocs? Travel related?
Airlines? NetFlix/Hulu/iTunes? Gmail? Dropbox? GitHub? Clothing? Shopping
in general? NYTimes and other news sources? LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter,
G+, ...

I could go on but dozens.  I seriously, Seriously doubt it.


> OK maybe hundreds over decades, but ... current?
>

Not so fast, mister!  They're still there and very hackable.


> Admittedly, I have probably cranked through a similar number of
> "throwaways" where I've signed up for something (because that is the only
> way to sample/test) and then let the login die or go fallow (and my
> hashword) with it.But hundreds?  Really?  I'm worried about you guys!
> They have groups and 12 step programs for things like this!
>

Login die?  You sure?  And indeed, how many folks can "delete" an account?
 Most don't have an obvious way do do so.


> As for mnemonics or mental-hash-generators (hashwords?)... my decades of
> high security environments where writing my password down anywhere
> (including or especially electronically) or sharing it with anyone (e.g.
> speaking it aloud) was a felony or low treason or something, I just can't
> stand to see a password in clear text... it makes me cringe...   so a whole
> spreadsheet of my family jewels... I just couldn't...
>
> I only wish there were a 2-factor system for the masses that isn't
> spoofable (the ones that use your Mac address of your device are better
> than nothing but not unspoofable by far).
>
> - Steve
>

I am so worried about you guy who don't know just how many logins you have!
 :)

   -- Owen

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Re: [FRIAM] Managing large numbers of passwords

[Joseph Spinden]

My spreadsheet is password protected.  But you're right.  One of the 
systems I use employs a Verisign token system.  It would be useful to 
have something like that generally available to protect spreadsheets, 
files, etc.


Joe



On 12/5/13, 11:20 AM, Steve Smith wrote:

150, 240, 900 !?

?!What!?  are you guys addicted to?   Including PINs for bank-cards 
(not used online) I can't estimate over a dozen or two myself.  OK 
maybe hundreds over decades, but ... current? Admittedly, I have 
probably cranked through a similar number of "throwaways" where I've 
signed up for something (because that is the only way to sample/test) 
and then let the login die or go fallow (and my hashword) with it.
But hundreds?  Really?  I'm worried about you guys!  They have groups 
and 12 step programs for things like this!


As for mnemonics or mental-hash-generators (hashwords?)... my decades 
of high security environments where writing my password down anywhere 
(including or especially electronically) or sharing it with anyone 
(e.g. speaking it aloud) was a felony or low treason or something, I 
just can't stand to see a password in clear text... it makes me 
cringe...   so a whole spreadsheet of my family jewels... I just 
couldn't...


I only wish there were a 2-factor system for the masses that isn't 
spoofable (the ones that use your Mac address of your device are 
better than nothing but not unspoofable by far).


- Steve

~240 accounts stored in keepass.

-- rec --


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Owen Densmore > wrote:


Just out of curiosity, how many of us have a reasonable idea of
the number of logins we have?  At a guess, I'd say I have over
200 simply because over the last year I have logged 150+ in
1Password.

One good source, btw, is the monthly mail-list reminders.

 -- Owen


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Joseph Spinden mailto:j...@qri.us>> wrote:

I certainly do not want to rely on mnemonics, and I find it
(almost) astonishing that people would devote time to
developing a mnemonic method.  I long ago came up with a
simple two-step device to keep track of my 100's of
passwords: It is called a spreadsheet.  All you need to
remember is the password to get into the spreadsheet.  This
is my "key chain".  My method only works on a device where I
can access my spreadsheet, but that is not an issue for me. I
think this could be easily adapted to other devices, were I
so motivated.

Joe



On 12/4/13, 12:09 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:

In my as yet brief use of LastPass, it is very good on my
Mac (and probably equally good on Windows). I haven't yet
even tried it on my iPad or iPhone, but the problem there
is that mobile Safari doesn't support plugins, so the
kinds of content rewriting that the plugins must do to
work seamlessly with the browser can't be implemented. I
don't know if this is just a problem with Safari, but it
seems to be a restriction with iOS generally, being a
highly restricted ecosystem. I suppose Android would be
less restrictive, although I don't have any experience
with it.

Gary

On Dec 4, 2013, at 1:56 PM, Owen Densmore
mailto:o...@backspaces.net>> wrote:

Agreed.  And do you know one of the biggest problems?
 Phones!

Yes, 1Password and others run on phones, but mainly
for browser logins.

Then cam "apps".  Browser's could't keep up with the
demands of phone apps so the devs had to go to
"native" apps, or more general PhoneGap type apps.
 Yes iP can work with them but you have to cut/paste
to use them which is a total pain in the rear.

Possibly apple's new phones with thumb recognition
will simplify things .. you'll have a "key chain" in
the sky.  But it'll be broken by the bad guys too, I
guess.  And depends on the apple ecology which I find
too incomplete compared with google.

-- Owen


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Gary Schiltz
mailto:g...@naturesvisualarts.com>> wrote:
More to the point, our brains are too small and our
years too few to fill with mindless drivel. Better to
use them writing poetry, creating a better world, or
even reading and writing FRIAM posts :-)

On Dec 4, 2013, at 1:45 PM, Owen Densmore
mailto:o...@backspaces.net>> wrote:

My brain is too small.

-- Owen

[FRIAM] Twitter Wisdom

[Owen Densmore]

>  
> 
> 
> 
>[image: backspaces]
> 
>   Owen
> Densmore saw this and thought of you!
> 
>   John
> Gruber
> @gruber
>
>
> “A bleak, joyless, dystopian future where ‘invite’ is a noun and ‘gift’ a
> verb.”
>04:22 PM - 05 Dec 
> 13
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>
>  are also in this conversation.
>Join in! 
>
>
>
>

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Re: [FRIAM] Managing large numbers of passwords

[Steve Smith]

150, 240, 900 !?

?!What!?  are you guys addicted to?   Including PINs for bank-cards (not 
used online) I can't estimate over a dozen or two myself.  OK maybe 
hundreds over decades, but ... current? Admittedly, I have probably 
cranked through a similar number of "throwaways" where I've signed up 
for something (because that is the only way to sample/test) and then let 
the login die or go fallow (and my hashword) with it.But hundreds?  
Really?  I'm worried about you guys!  They have groups and 12 step 
programs for things like this!


As for mnemonics or mental-hash-generators (hashwords?)... my decades of 
high security environments where writing my password down anywhere 
(including or especially electronically) or sharing it with anyone (e.g. 
speaking it aloud) was a felony or low treason or something, I just 
can't stand to see a password in clear text... it makes me cringe...   
so a whole spreadsheet of my family jewels... I just couldn't...


I only wish there were a 2-factor system for the masses that isn't 
spoofable (the ones that use your Mac address of your device are better 
than nothing but not unspoofable by far).


- Steve

~240 accounts stored in keepass.

-- rec --


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Owen Densmore > wrote:


Just out of curiosity, how many of us have a reasonable idea of
the number of logins we have?  At a guess, I'd say I have over 200
simply because over the last year I have logged 150+ in 1Password.

One good source, btw, is the monthly mail-list reminders.

 -- Owen


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Joseph Spinden mailto:j...@qri.us>> wrote:

I certainly do not want to rely on mnemonics, and I find it
(almost) astonishing that people would devote time to
developing a mnemonic method.  I long ago came up with a
simple two-step device to keep track of my 100's of passwords:
It is called a spreadsheet.  All you need to remember is the
password to get into the spreadsheet.  This is my "key chain".
 My method only works on a device where I can access my
spreadsheet, but that is not an issue for me. I think this
could be easily adapted to other devices, were I so motivated.

Joe



On 12/4/13, 12:09 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:

In my as yet brief use of LastPass, it is very good on my
Mac (and probably equally good on Windows). I haven't yet
even tried it on my iPad or iPhone, but the problem there
is that mobile Safari doesn't support plugins, so the
kinds of content rewriting that the plugins must do to
work seamlessly with the browser can't be implemented. I
don't know if this is just a problem with Safari, but it
seems to be a restriction with iOS generally, being a
highly restricted ecosystem. I suppose Android would be
less restrictive, although I don't have any experience
with it.

Gary

On Dec 4, 2013, at 1:56 PM, Owen Densmore
mailto:o...@backspaces.net>> wrote:

Agreed.  And do you know one of the biggest problems?
 Phones!

Yes, 1Password and others run on phones, but mainly
for browser logins.

Then cam "apps".  Browser's could't keep up with the
demands of phone apps so the devs had to go to
"native" apps, or more general PhoneGap type apps.
 Yes iP can work with them but you have to cut/paste
to use them which is a total pain in the rear.

Possibly apple's new phones with thumb recognition
will simplify things .. you'll have a "key chain" in
the sky.  But it'll be broken by the bad guys too, I
guess.  And depends on the apple ecology which I find
too incomplete compared with google.

-- Owen


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Gary Schiltz
mailto:g...@naturesvisualarts.com>> wrote:
More to the point, our brains are too small and our
years too few to fill with mindless drivel. Better to
use them writing poetry, creating a better world, or
even reading and writing FRIAM posts :-)

On Dec 4, 2013, at 1:45 PM, Owen Densmore
mailto:o...@backspaces.net>> wrote:

My brain is too small.

-- Owen


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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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-- 


"Sunlight is the best disinfectant."

  -- Supre

Re: [FRIAM] Git/GitHub Question

[Barry MacKichan]

I recommend Sourcetree for looking at these things more visually. (Google it or 
go to atlassian.com). It’s free and works with Git and Mercurial. I use it with 
Mercurial.

I think you can do this with a ‘master’ branch, an ‘extras’ branch, and a 
‘release’ branch. What you are doing is close to holomorphic with the “flow” 
model. See http://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/

Hope this helps.

—Barry

On Dec 4, 2013, at 9:19 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:

> This should be easy but I haven't figured out a solution yet.
> 
> I have a repository (repo), agentscript.  It has not only the core code and 
> "plugins" but docs, models, and js/min.js files which require hosting .. i.e. 
> something that can "serve" these html/js files.
> 
> GHPages, the github project hosting service provides this.  GHPages works by 
> having a branch, gh-pages, which is stored on their hosting service (not 
> their project site)
> 
> But to use their hosting service and nifty templates, there are several, 5, 
> extra files/folders generated and live in the branch
> 
> I'd like to maintain the branch separately, with the 5 extra files/folders, 
> and periodically add all of the main/master repo to this.  I believe the 
> branches would have to remain separate, even tho sharing most of their files.
> 
> Git merge won't work, I think.  If I merge the master into the branch, the 
> branch becomes the master, and I no longer have separation between the two .. 
> and I pollute the master repo with the extra web service files.
> 
> Is there a git trick that would let me maintain two separate branches, and 
> periodically "merge" the master files into the branch, yet keep the 5 branch 
> web service files/folders out of the master?
> 
> Oh, in addition, the server files need no updating at all after their initial 
> creation.  They simply use the project README.md for their "content".
> 
>-- Owen
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com


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[FRIAM] Fwd: Bank's Research Report on Bitcoin

[Owen Densmore]

Hope this isn't a repeat, but yet another interesting bitcoin report, this
time from Bank of America Merrill Lynch

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/885843-banks-research-report-on-bitcoin.html

   -- Owen

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Re: [FRIAM] Why I was wrong about the nuclear option

[glen e. p. ropella]

On 12/04/2013 07:39 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> Yes (he would say), assuming that you were chosen at random from the
> population of humans, it is a VALID inference from the fact that you can
> break concrete that humans can break concrete.  It is valid because we
> would, if we continued to pick random individuals indefinitely come
> ultimately to the correct conclusion, say, that less than .01 percent of
> humans can break concrete.  Unfortunately, though valid, this inference is
> extraordinarily "weak".   The adjective "weak" seems to relate to how much
> money you should be willing to bet on it.  In this case, with the sample
> size at one, and the population at billions, Peirce would advise you to bet
> very little if anything, until you had a much larger sample.  

This effectively demonstrates the fragility of logic (or any purely
delusional/mental construct).  In practice, were you to go around
actually testing people against concrete, the success rate would
_increase_ over time for 2 reasons: 1) people would game the test and 2)
your test would evolve.

In the end, inference relies, in a rather circular way, on ever more
inference.

-- 
glen ep ropella -- 971-255-2847


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Re: [FRIAM] Managing large numbers of passwords

[Joseph Spinden]

About 900, but not all are active.


On 12/5/13, 10:08 AM, Roger Critchlow wrote:

~240 accounts stored in keepass.

-- rec --


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Owen Densmore > wrote:


Just out of curiosity, how many of us have a reasonable idea of
the number of logins we have?  At a guess, I'd say I have over 200
simply because over the last year I have logged 150+ in 1Password.

One good source, btw, is the monthly mail-list reminders.

 -- Owen


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Joseph Spinden mailto:j...@qri.us>> wrote:

I certainly do not want to rely on mnemonics, and I find it
(almost) astonishing that people would devote time to
developing a mnemonic method.  I long ago came up with a
simple two-step device to keep track of my 100's of passwords:
It is called a spreadsheet.  All you need to remember is the
password to get into the spreadsheet.  This is my "key chain".
 My method only works on a device where I can access my
spreadsheet, but that is not an issue for me. I think this
could be easily adapted to other devices, were I so motivated.

Joe



On 12/4/13, 12:09 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:

In my as yet brief use of LastPass, it is very good on my
Mac (and probably equally good on Windows). I haven't yet
even tried it on my iPad or iPhone, but the problem there
is that mobile Safari doesn't support plugins, so the
kinds of content rewriting that the plugins must do to
work seamlessly with the browser can't be implemented. I
don't know if this is just a problem with Safari, but it
seems to be a restriction with iOS generally, being a
highly restricted ecosystem. I suppose Android would be
less restrictive, although I don't have any experience
with it.

Gary

On Dec 4, 2013, at 1:56 PM, Owen Densmore
mailto:o...@backspaces.net>> wrote:

Agreed.  And do you know one of the biggest problems?
 Phones!

Yes, 1Password and others run on phones, but mainly
for browser logins.

Then cam "apps".  Browser's could't keep up with the
demands of phone apps so the devs had to go to
"native" apps, or more general PhoneGap type apps.
 Yes iP can work with them but you have to cut/paste
to use them which is a total pain in the rear.

Possibly apple's new phones with thumb recognition
will simplify things .. you'll have a "key chain" in
the sky.  But it'll be broken by the bad guys too, I
guess.  And depends on the apple ecology which I find
too incomplete compared with google.

-- Owen


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Gary Schiltz
mailto:g...@naturesvisualarts.com>> wrote:
More to the point, our brains are too small and our
years too few to fill with mindless drivel. Better to
use them writing poetry, creating a better world, or
even reading and writing FRIAM posts :-)

On Dec 4, 2013, at 1:45 PM, Owen Densmore
mailto:o...@backspaces.net>> wrote:

My brain is too small.

-- Owen


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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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-- 


"Sunlight is the best disinfectant."

  -- Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1913.




FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com





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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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--

"Sunlight is the best disinfectant."

  -- Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1913.


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Re: [FRIAM] Managing large numbers of passwords

[Roger Critchlow]

~240 accounts stored in keepass.

-- rec --


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Owen Densmore  wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, how many of us have a reasonable idea of the number
> of logins we have?  At a guess, I'd say I have over 200 simply because over
> the last year I have logged 150+ in 1Password.
>
> One good source, btw, is the monthly mail-list reminders.
>
>-- Owen
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Joseph Spinden  wrote:
>
>> I certainly do not want to rely on mnemonics, and I find it (almost)
>> astonishing that people would devote time to developing a mnemonic method.
>>  I long ago came up with a simple two-step device to keep track of my 100's
>> of passwords: It is called a spreadsheet.  All you need to remember is the
>> password to get into the spreadsheet.  This is my "key chain".  My method
>> only works on a device where I can access my spreadsheet, but that is not
>> an issue for me. I think this could be easily adapted to other devices,
>> were I so motivated.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/4/13, 12:09 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
>>
>>> In my as yet brief use of LastPass, it is very good on my Mac (and
>>> probably equally good on Windows). I haven’t yet even tried it on my iPad
>>> or iPhone, but the problem there is that mobile Safari doesn’t support
>>> plugins, so the kinds of content rewriting that the plugins must do to work
>>> seamlessly with the browser can’t be implemented. I don’t know if this is
>>> just a problem with Safari, but it seems to be a restriction with iOS
>>> generally, being a highly restricted ecosystem. I suppose Android would be
>>> less restrictive, although I don’t have any experience with it.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Dec 4, 2013, at 1:56 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Agreed.  And do you know one of the biggest problems?  Phones!

 Yes, 1Password and others run on phones, but mainly for browser logins.

 Then cam "apps".  Browser's could't keep up with the demands of phone
 apps so the devs had to go to "native" apps, or more general PhoneGap type
 apps.  Yes iP can work with them but you have to cut/paste to use them
 which is a total pain in the rear.

 Possibly apple's new phones with thumb recognition will simplify things
 .. you'll have a "key chain" in the sky.  But it'll be broken by the bad
 guys too, I guess.  And depends on the apple ecology which I find too
 incomplete compared with google.

 -- Owen


 On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Gary Schiltz <
 g...@naturesvisualarts.com> wrote:
 More to the point, our brains are too small and our years too few to
 fill with mindless drivel. Better to use them writing poetry, creating a
 better world, or even reading and writing FRIAM posts :-)

 On Dec 4, 2013, at 1:45 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:

  My brain is too small.
>
> -- Owen
>
 
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> "Sunlight is the best disinfectant."
>>
>>   -- Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1913.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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Re: [FRIAM] Managing large numbers of passwords

[Owen Densmore]

Just out of curiosity, how many of us have a reasonable idea of the number
of logins we have?  At a guess, I'd say I have over 200 simply because over
the last year I have logged 150+ in 1Password.

One good source, btw, is the monthly mail-list reminders.

   -- Owen


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Joseph Spinden  wrote:

> I certainly do not want to rely on mnemonics, and I find it (almost)
> astonishing that people would devote time to developing a mnemonic method.
>  I long ago came up with a simple two-step device to keep track of my 100's
> of passwords: It is called a spreadsheet.  All you need to remember is the
> password to get into the spreadsheet.  This is my "key chain".  My method
> only works on a device where I can access my spreadsheet, but that is not
> an issue for me. I think this could be easily adapted to other devices,
> were I so motivated.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> On 12/4/13, 12:09 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
>
>> In my as yet brief use of LastPass, it is very good on my Mac (and
>> probably equally good on Windows). I haven’t yet even tried it on my iPad
>> or iPhone, but the problem there is that mobile Safari doesn’t support
>> plugins, so the kinds of content rewriting that the plugins must do to work
>> seamlessly with the browser can’t be implemented. I don’t know if this is
>> just a problem with Safari, but it seems to be a restriction with iOS
>> generally, being a highly restricted ecosystem. I suppose Android would be
>> less restrictive, although I don’t have any experience with it.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> On Dec 4, 2013, at 1:56 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:
>>
>>  Agreed.  And do you know one of the biggest problems?  Phones!
>>>
>>> Yes, 1Password and others run on phones, but mainly for browser logins.
>>>
>>> Then cam "apps".  Browser's could't keep up with the demands of phone
>>> apps so the devs had to go to "native" apps, or more general PhoneGap type
>>> apps.  Yes iP can work with them but you have to cut/paste to use them
>>> which is a total pain in the rear.
>>>
>>> Possibly apple's new phones with thumb recognition will simplify things
>>> .. you'll have a "key chain" in the sky.  But it'll be broken by the bad
>>> guys too, I guess.  And depends on the apple ecology which I find too
>>> incomplete compared with google.
>>>
>>> -- Owen
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Gary Schiltz <
>>> g...@naturesvisualarts.com> wrote:
>>> More to the point, our brains are too small and our years too few to
>>> fill with mindless drivel. Better to use them writing poetry, creating a
>>> better world, or even reading and writing FRIAM posts :-)
>>>
>>> On Dec 4, 2013, at 1:45 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:
>>>
>>>  My brain is too small.

 -- Owen

>>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> "Sunlight is the best disinfectant."
>
>   -- Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1913.
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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[FRIAM] linux and winderz

[Gillian Densmore]

Greetings fellow technomancers,

   I don't know if it's a trojan, spyware, worm or other. As per normal
with windows some VEQ thought it may be funny to attempt to infect a
picture of Warf the famous klingon(ST:TNG).
Nothing new for the..unique. elk..of vandles in winderz land:
Thus leading to several questions:
What anti-virus and firewall(s?) actually work for windows?
Would it be worth back up my all my stuff- to a external drive somehow to
either:
Clean install the entire system (UGH!) and or:
Move on to Linux
That part wouldn't happen untill after i'm done with this semester.
=
What External HDs are badass fast, can act like time machine?
==
With linux I have lots of questions from more experience users:
What's the Linux landscape looklike these days? The last time I LOVED linux
was running arch, around kernel version 2.5 - with a computer my brother
kindly let me borrow. I was on KDE 3 something. Flash was a tossup.
Mplayer was doing it's best to cover sound on web-pages.

However these days I use  quite a bit of illustrator  photoshop.
And to get something vaguely resembling some downtime and a low-grade
social life I play world of warcraft, and Star Drek Online.
 It's my understanding to use those it's best to set up vmware. I don't
know if that's still the case.

I know the linux landscape has change alot since kernel 2.5 and KDE 3.
Since Ubuntu/Kubuntu are seen with gamers as fun- in that they have not
real virii to deel with, and NVidia officially, actively and proudly
supports linux.

I'd love to get some input.

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Why I was wrong about the nuclear option

[Steve Smith]

Nick -


Arlo,

You are bit by bit dragging me out on thin ice here (statistics and 
probability) which is fine, so long as you are prepared to rescue me.


Grin...  this is what we keep youth around for... first we pretend to 
teach them how to stay only on thick ice whilst trusting that at some 
point they will lure us onto the thin, trusting that they will, in turn, 
be able to rescue us when it begins to crack under the weight of our 
ponderous wisdom.


As for your suggestions to Gil regarding what traps the elders can set 
(and bait) for the yungers, there are many...  I appreciate that someone 
(you) with better "elderly" credentials than mine own can be so direct 
(and honest?) about those traps.


I think, as a matter of practice, that the strength of an inference is 
determined */a priori/* when you define your population and select 
your sample size.




I liked the parts about grue, green and bleen 
 better...  but from my 
remembrances of the works of Brothers Grimm, I thought that grue (as in 
gruesome) was a somewhat greasy and rancid stew made of human body 
parts, usually by ogres or trolls or some similarly untrustworthy sort.  
I can find no objective evidence that this is the case for anyone else.  
Strictly (yet another) a phenomena of my own private universe I suspect.


- Steve


Does that sound right?

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ 



*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Arlo Barnes
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 04, 2013 10:18 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Why I was wrong about the nuclear option

The adjective "weak" seems to relate to how much money you should
be willing to bet on it.  In this case, with the sample size at
one, and the population at billions, Peirce would advise you to
bet very little if anything, until you had a much larger sample.

So is strength of an inference something we can only determine /a 
posteriori/? Or can we infer it based off previous inferences?


I agree with you that there are traps for the young lurking in the
enthusiasm and nostalgia with which the elderly often approach
guiding the young.  Even worse than "you can do anything you can
put your mind to" is "all I want is for you to be  happy."  Both
set one up for blaming the victim when life screws one over, which
it inevitably will.  I do believe that "being happy" is a behavior
and a skill that comes only to those who work at it, but alas, I
see no evidence that it comes to everybody who works at it.

I think probably the only advice which does not make irresponsible 
assumptions is "do stuff; try it, you will like it", which is not very 
helpful. So any more complex advice is valuable but only if treated 
skeptically, in the positive sense of that word, rather than merely 
taken to heart.


No value comes to a child from blaming his or her parents.

I would furthermore posit that blame is a valueless activity much akin 
to making decisions based on what is moral. It leads to 
misunderstanding a system much more often than it aids the thinker, 
and understanding a [social, physical, economic] system to some 
critical degree is vital in avoiding bad experiences in the future.


New-Clear options? In what context?

Somebody pointed out that society had moved forward because in the 
recent debate  not just 
a few but many politicians succeeded in not pronouncing it 
"new-queue-lur".


Do any of you know about grue and green.

I know that when it is light out one is liable to be eaten by a bleen.

-Arlo




FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com