date:20091028


Hi Charles,
Very true. Punching or kicking air wouldn't make any sound. 
Never-the-less many games do make a swoosh sound when yu miss, but I 
elected not to for the realism. As I said before if you are out of range 
logic would dictate Angela can see her target, and could judge if it is 
out of range of her punches and kicks. Therefore she would not try and 
punch or kick an enemy until she got into melee range. If we were all 
sighted players we wouldn't even be having this discussion as any 
mainstream sighted player wouldn't even consider pressing the fire 
button until he/she was close enough to score a hit on his/her target to 
begin with. So i emulated this by having Angela ignore any command to 
punch/kick until she was in range.


Charles Rivard wrote:
On hand to hand combat, there is no need for a sound if you are too far from 
the enemy, as hitting air would not make any sound.  No sound?  No contact, 
and no damage done or sustained.  Those are the first thoughts that come to 
my mind.  By the way, nice demo, Tom!
  



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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Beta 9 error encountered


Hi Munawar,
Thanks for this info. I had not heard about this Managed DirectX bug 
before. This should serve as a reminder to me to get off my butt and 
convert over to SlimDX soon. I do know SlimDX March 2009 is quite 
compatible with Windows 7, and is the better choice for .NET game 
developers these days.


Smile.

Munawar Bijani wrote:

Hi,
This is a Managed DirectX bug. When reading into a SoundBuffer 
sometimes DirectSound trips a false error saying the argument is out 
of range. There is no known fix for it since Managed DirectX hasn't 
been in development since .NET 1.1.


In other words, it's not an issue with the game--it's a library issue.
Munawar A. Bijani



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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA 9 question


Hi Mike,
First, just a slight correction. Windows 7 comes with DirectX, but not 
Managed DirectX. Managed DirectX is a specialized component for DirectX 
that allows .NET developers to support DirectX 9.0C. There is a newer 
API called SlimDX which I haven't yet converted too at this time. Point 
is neither Managed DirectX or SlimDX come as a part of Windows 7.
Second, when you climb up the rope there will be a door to your left and 
a statue to your right. Open the door to your left first, get the items 
inside, before opening the statue on your right.


Mike Maslo wrote:

Hi everyone:

Well I fixed my problem because I thought that windows 7 came with direct x
but it turned out that it didn't. I installed it and then all was great.

However I feel embarrassed when I ask this question. This is the first time
I tried the game in all of the betas. I started and found one key and then
went through the wall or the door as it slid open. Anyway I got to the rope
and climbed it but I did not know where to go when I got to the rope. I
climbed to the top and then jumped both right and left. Both times I went
nowhere which would help me move. Is there something I am doing wrong or why
can't I find where to go?
  



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Re: [Audyssey] Hand to Hand Conbat?


Hi,
Ok...Why exactly should I completely rewrite the pause function to stop 
and restart all of the game sounds when pausing and unpausing the game? 
Most games I know of don't stop the game's sounds when the game is 
paused, and I really can't see any reason to put a lot of work into a 
feature that doesn't make any sense to me.


Thanks.

matheus wrote:

hi thomas, i just forgot one thing. wen you pause the game, it should
stop the sounds such as background music, sound effects, etc, and only
umpause it wen you press f2, not other key.
thanks.
  



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Re: [Audyssey] mota fists


Hi Hayden,
Perhaps you are too close or too far away? I can usually kill a skeleton 
with one or two good sword swings. Daggers take about 4 or 5 good stabs, 
but they also work. Believe me I have tested this game in and out, and 
everything generally works here.


Hayden Presley wrote:

One thing I've noticed, skeletons don't seem to take damage from the dagger
or sword. Why is this exactly?
Hayden
  



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[Audyssey] USA Games Important Announcement


Attention USA Games customers,
We would just like to inform everyone of some temporary down time 
regarding the USA Games web site, mailing lists, etc. Our servers are 
currently down do to hardware and software upgrades. We expect to resume 
normal operations by tomorrow morning.


Thanks.


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Re: [Audyssey] SlimDX:


Hi Munawar,
Yeah, I've known about SlimDX for a while now, but I haven't been able 
to get DirectSound working. Part of the problem is I can't find any code 
examples for SlimDX and C#. At least as far as DirectSound goes. If you 
could send me DirectSound examples, a tutorial, I'd happily switch as 
soon as possible.


Munawar Bijani wrote:

Hi,
I forgot to add to my last message that a newer DirectX wrapper exists 
for managed code called SlimDX. Unlike Managed DirectX, it's under 
active development and gets updated every time Microsoft releases a 
new DirectX SDK. You can find it at www.slimdx.org. This is the API I 
use--I abandoned MDX about a year ago. The DirectSound portion is 
bug-free as far as I can tell. The last issue was a false 
EndOfStreamException but I alerted them to that and it was fixed 
back in the March 2009 update. Their latest update is the August 
release. The only disadvantage to it is it's called SlimDX simply 
because it's a slim wrapper. Eg. it provides c++ equivalents of 
DirectX in managed code, nothing more. I like it in that way because 
it's easy now to look at C++ examples and port them to SlimDX, and i 
think you'll find that beneficial as well; versus MDX which gave too 
many extra functions and ended up doing a lot of the behind the 
scenes work for you.


If you have any questions about SlimDX, the developers are active on 
www.gamedev.net in the forums under DirectX and XNA.



Munawar A. Bijani
Knowledge is of two types: absorbed and heard. The heard knowledge is 
only useful if it is absorbed. - Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib, Nahj Al-Balagha

mailto:munaw...@gmail.com
http://www.bpcprograms.com



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Re: [Audyssey] Hand to Hand Conbat?


Hi,
Ok...I guess I can do that. It won't be hard to add a swoosh for if and 
when she misses an enemy monster. I can probably do that today since it 
seams to be a relatively easy update.


Phil Vlasak wrote:

Hi Thomas,
I agree that there should be a swoosh sound if you swing your fist too 
far from the creature.
This could also be used if you are in range and miss, which I hope is 
taken account for as not every punch or kick should be a hit.
Maybe you could include some really timid creatures that run off when 
she kicks or swings at them.
I could see a bat that almost sounds like the harpy but is scared away 
from you just by swinging at it.



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[Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi everyone,
This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I 
think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as 
your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of 
the game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all 
of you take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your 
responses very carefully before responding as your input is very 
important to me right now.
As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of 
the classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders 
for that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal 
issues he was unable to complete the game within the time specified. 
Eventually, I took over development of the game in early 2006, and I 
decided to rewrite the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the 
game in January of 2008, had already taken orders for the game myself,  
when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright 
infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission 
to make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease 
and desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and 
desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries 
of the Ancients.  It was initially intended to be a classic 
side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario 
Brothers, and similar games.
The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the 
features modern FPS games have today. There  was no such thing as 
randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick 
up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss 
unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to 
beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you 
younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station 
and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation 
of gaming.
I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's 
type of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a 
more modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding 
no! A couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much 
you would like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those 
that were out in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set 
out to do just that.
However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you 
began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game 
that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After 
some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring 
feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the 
feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a 
way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to 
stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it 
both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in 
since most of the people liked it that way.
The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the 
passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would 
typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a 
posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 
80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a 
classic side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For 
that reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the 
game is turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out  classic 
side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither 
one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but 
over the passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game 
because it isn't the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like it.
So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this 
game as a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without 
randomized monsters and items, no save game features, no modern FPS 
influences of any kind, or would you rather I just completely ditch the 
entire classic side-scroller idea and create an actual modern FPS game 
with all the requests, suggestions, and modern features you 
want?Personally, as many of you consistently request more and more 
modern features from mainstream games you play I think the majority of 
you would be much happier with a straight out FPS type game. After all, 
that's what the Genesis Engine was initially designed for and it 
wouldn't take too long to convert the game over to an FPS type game. 
What do all of you Mysteries of the Ancients players think?
Before I go let me just say this. I would like to get an actual 
decision, a real answer, from this group regarding this question. I 
don't

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Beta 9 feedback


Hi Scott,
I've started working on changing the speed, working on the hand to hand 
updates, misses, etc, but I think before I proceed further I need to get 
the lists input on where to go with this game. I'm being pulled in 
completely two different directions regarding the game and I have to end 
that right now. It is one of those situations it has to be one way or 
the other not both.
Anyway, those stone statues were suppose to be statues of Greek gods not 
gargoils. Perhaps I should describe the statues in the view menu like 
statue of Zues or statue of Hades etc.


Cheers!


Scott Chesworth wrote:

Hi Tom,

Ah, my bad, I seem to have taken in the part about updating
staircases, but not taken in the part of the game it was added too
somehow lol.  Should've read the change log properly before I sent
that I guess.

On a similar note, it just occurred that the stone gargoiles are now
in the same situation as the staircase, in that they're in the sound
description list but don't show up in the view command.  Not sure if
it's something you're planning to update for the stairs to show in the
view command, but if you do, the newbies might appreciate the
gargoiles being there just as much seeing as they come up quite often.

Re the hand to hand fix, addressing the maximum speed along with
generating some random misses as people are suggesting would be the
icing on a very fun new feature I reckon.
  



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Re: [Audyssey] huge colection of sound effects

2009-10-28 Thread Jacob Kruger


For once off sound effects, I generally use websites like:
http://www.soundsnap.com/

And while they have something like 50 search results for sword sounds, they 
currently seem to have an issue with downloads starting after you click/hit 
enter on the MP3/wav file links in the search results.


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
'...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'

- Original Message - 
From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] huge colection of sound effects



Hi Greg,
I didn't find sword hits but there is one,
Fencing - Swordfight, General Atmosphere 1:02
one minute long.

- Original Message - 
From: Greg gre...@fuse.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] huge colection of sound effects



Hello Phil,
Does this include fantasy sound effects as well?  Like swords and the 
like.

Thanks,
Greg Wocher
- Original Message - 
From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 9:38 AM
Subject: [Audyssey] huge colection of sound effects



Hi Folks,
I just purchased from AmazonMp3.com,
500+ Sound Effects
by Sound Effects
Price: $1.99
Original Release Date: September 29, 2009
There is a plus sign after 500, which means there is 535 sound effects
So that is 3 sound effects for a penny!
I couldn't miss passing up on this deal.
I think the quality of the sounds are good except for most of the gun
sounds which are clipped as the sound was too loud for the recording
method.
Here is the URL:
http://amzn.com/B002OVD5FK

Phil


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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Personally, while I do like the idea of more side scrollers in the AG market 
I like the direction MOTA has taken so far. If keeping that means converting 
it to an FPS I personally would say go for that. The way I see it it's 
everybody's fault for requesting all these non-80s feature additions so they 
should have to live with the consequences. Someone else can develop their 
classic 80s style side scroller at a later time since I daresay you've 
become more than a little burnt out on the genre yourself.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS



Hi everyone,
This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I 
think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your 
opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game 
from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take 
this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very 
carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right 
now.
As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the 
classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders for 
that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he 
was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I 
took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite 
the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 
2008, had already taken orders for the game myself,  when I was contacted 
privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or 
I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I 
was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. 
Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own 
side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients.  It was initially intended 
to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's 
Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games.
The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the 
features modern FPS games have today. There  was no such thing as randomly 
placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where 
you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you 
were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game 
and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it 
would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you 
are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming.
I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type 
of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more 
modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding no! A 
couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would 
like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out 
in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just 
that.
However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began 
making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was 
being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some 
debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature 
since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were 
happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it 
off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding 
features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had 
to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the 
people liked it that way.
The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the 
passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would 
typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a 
posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 
80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic 
side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that 
reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is 
turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out  classic 
side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, 
and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the 
passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because it isn't 
the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like it.
So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this game 
as a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without randomized

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


hi thomas,
here is my point of view.
I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly bump 
into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of side 
scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how it is 
now. I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... please, 
no! no wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is!
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:03 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS



Hi everyone,
This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I 
think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your 
opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game 
from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take 
this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very 
carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right 
now.
As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the 
classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders for 
that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he 
was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I 
took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite 
the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 
2008, had already taken orders for the game myself,  when I was contacted 
privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or 
I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I 
was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. 
Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own 
side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients.  It was initially intended 
to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's 
Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games.
The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the 
features modern FPS games have today. There  was no such thing as randomly 
placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where 
you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you 
were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game 
and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it 
would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you 
are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming.
I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type 
of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more 
modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding no! A 
couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would 
like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out 
in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just 
that.
However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began 
making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was 
being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some 
debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature 
since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were 
happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it 
off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding 
features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had 
to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the 
people liked it that way.
The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the 
passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would 
typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a 
posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 
80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic 
side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that 
reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is 
turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out  classic 
side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, 
and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the 
passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because it isn't 
the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like it.
So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this game 
as a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without randomized 
monsters and items, no save game features, no modern FPS influences of any 
kind, or would you rather I just completely ditch the entire classic 
side-scroller idea and create an actual modern FPS game with all the 
requests,

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

2009-10-28 Thread Mich

Hi Tom. As some one who grew up in the late 80's I was born in 1983. I 
remember playing the Nintendo with my sister and playing the Mario
Brothers games with her along with duck hunt witch I could still play after 
I lost my sight. With that said I think it would be nice to have a side 
scroller game like you had planned from the get go. I like the idea of 
pozzing the game and then being able to go back to it later on. Well those 
are my thoughts regarding this. from Mich Verrier from New Liskeard Ontario 
Canada. 



---
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You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
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please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

to be honest tom at first I loathed the side scroler idea mainly because of not 
winning in pipe2 and superliam.
Now though I like it.
I also like the modernised mixed element never really liked the standard side 
scroler, if you can have it the way it is now fine.
If I was pushed into a decition I'd say fps style.
At 11:03 a.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote:
Hi everyone,
This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think 
now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your opinions, 
responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game from here on 
out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take this message very 
seriously. I hope you think about your responses very carefully before 
responding as your input is very important to me right now.
As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the 
classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders for that 
game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was unable 
to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took over 
development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game in C# 
.NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had already 
taken orders for the game myself,  
when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As 
neither James or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake 
of the game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of 
the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began 
my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients.  It was initially 
intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's 
Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games.
The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the features 
modern FPS games have today. There  was no such thing as randomly placed items 
and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you left off 
later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too far away, 
etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the highest 
score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite primitive 
compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was a 
completely different generation of gaming.
I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of 
side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern 
FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding no! A couple of you 
wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able to 
play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that you 
were never able to play. So I set out to do just that.
However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began 
making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was 
being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I 
decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no 
longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but 
those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a 
classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since 
it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random 
items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way.
The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed 
year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically 
find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding 
these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type 
side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic side-scroller, 
and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that reason some people, 
including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is turning out. I would 
much prefer either a straight out  classic side-scroller or a modern FPS game. 
At this point the game is neither one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. 
That might not be bad, but over the passed few months I've grown to completely 
hate the game because it isn't the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like 
it.
So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this game as 
a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without randomized 
monsters and items, no save game features, no modern FPS influences of any 
kind, or would you rather I just completely ditch the entire classic 
side-scroller idea and create an actual modern FPS game with all the requests, 
suggestions, and modern features you want?Personally, as many of you 
consistently request more and more modern features from mainstream games you 
play I think the majority of you would be much happier with a straight out FPS 
type game.

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Hmmm piter I am the same way you are except its the traditional side scroler I 
suck at.
At 10:30 a.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote:
hi thomas,
here is my point of view.
I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly bump 
into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of side 
scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how it is now. 
I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... please, no! no 
wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is!
- Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
To: gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:03 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi everyone,
This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I think 
now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your 
opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game 
from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take 
this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very 
carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right now.
As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the 
classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders for that 
game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he was 
unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I took 
over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite the game 
in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 2008, had 
already taken orders for the game myself,  when I was contacted privately 
regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or I had 
legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I was 
officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. Rather 
than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own 
side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients.  It was initially intended to 
be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, 
Mario Brothers, and similar game
s.
The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the 
features modern FPS games have today. There  was no such thing as randomly 
placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where you 
left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you were too 
far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game and earn the 
highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it would be quite 
primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you are use too. It was 
a completely different generation of gaming.
I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type of 
side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more modern 
FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding no! A couple of 
you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would like to be able 
to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out in the 1980's that 
you were never able to play. So I set out to do just that.
However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began 
making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was 
being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some debate I 
decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature since it was no 
longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were happy to get it, but 
those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it off. They wanted a 
classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding features like that. Since 
it was too much work to have it both ways I had to decide to leave the random 
items and monsters in since most of the people liked it that way.
The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the passed 
year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would typically 
find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a posed to adding 
these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 80's type 
side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic 
side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that reason 
some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is turning 
out. I would much prefer either a straight out  classic side-scroller or a 
modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, and is a bit of a mix 
of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the passed few months I've 
grown to completely hate the game because it isn't the game I wanted to 
create. It is nothing like it.
So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this game as 
a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without randomized 
monsters and items, no save game features, no modern FPS influences of any 
kind, or would you rather I

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

fps games can be paused to.
At 10:41 a.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote:
Hi Tom. As some one who grew up in the late 80's I was born in 1983. I 
remember playing the Nintendo with my sister and playing the Mario
Brothers games with her along with duck hunt witch I could still play after I 
lost my sight. With that said I think it would be nice to have a side scroller 
game like you had planned from the get go. I like the idea of pozzing the game 
and then being able to go back to it later on. Well those are my thoughts 
regarding this. from Mich Verrier from New Liskeard Ontario Canada. 

---
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You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
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All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

well then, we're oposit sides here
- Original Message - 
From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Hmmm piter I am the same way you are except its the traditional side 
scroler I suck at.

At 10:30 a.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote:

hi thomas,
here is my point of view.
I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly 
bump into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of 
side scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how it 
is now. I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... 
please, no! no wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is!
- Original Message - From: Thomas Ward 
thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:03 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Hi everyone,
This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I 
think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as 
your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the 
game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you 
take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses 
very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me 
right now.
As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the 
classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders for 
that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he 
was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I 
took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite 
the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 
2008, had already taken orders for the game myself,  when I was contacted 
privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James 
or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the 
game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the 
game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began 
my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients.  It was initially 
intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, 
Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar game

s.
The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the 
features modern FPS games have today. There  was no such thing as 
randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick 
up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss 
unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to 
beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you 
younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station 
and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation 
of gaming.
I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type 
of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more 
modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding no! A 
couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would 
like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out 
in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just 
that.
However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you 
began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game 
that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After 
some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring 
feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the 
feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a 
way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to 
stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it 
both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since 
most of the people liked it that way.
The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the 
passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would 
typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a 
posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 
80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic 
side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that 
reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game 
is turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out  classic 
side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither 
one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but 
over the passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because 
it isn't the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

2009-10-28 Thread Casey Mathews

I say Bring on the Modern FPS! I for one am tired of classic games. I want a 
modern game, that really rocks! Randomize everything, and I'd love a network 
play option! Modernize it all the way!

--
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:03 PM
To: gamers@audyssey.org
Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Hi everyone,
This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I 
think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your 
opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game 
from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take 
this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very 
carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right 
now.
As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the 
classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders for 
that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he 
was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I 
took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite 
the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 
2008, had already taken orders for the game myself,  when I was contacted 
privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or 
I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I 
was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. 
Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own 
side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients.  It was initially intended 
to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's 
Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games.
The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the 
features modern FPS games have today. There  was no such thing as randomly 
placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where 
you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you 
were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game 
and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it 
would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you 
are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming.
I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type 
of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more 
modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding no! A 
couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would 
like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out 
in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just 
that.
However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began 
making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was 
being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some 
debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature 
since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were 
happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it 
off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding 
features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had 
to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the 
people liked it that way.
The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the 
passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would 
typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a 
posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 
80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic 
side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that 
reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is 
turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out  classic 
side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, 
and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the 
passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because it isn't 
the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like it.
So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this game 
as a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without randomized 
monsters and items, no save game features, no modern FPS influences of any 
kind, or would you rather I just completely ditch the entire classic 
side-scroller idea and create an actual modern FPS game with all the 
requests, suggestions, and modern features you want?Personally, as many of 
you consistently request more and more modern features from mainstream 
games you play I think the majority of you

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

The point is that if he sticks with the side scroller it sounds like we'll 
lose all the features that most people begged him to include since they're 
not standard to a true side scroller. And then people will start complaining 
that it's too easy again. And as I said in my first message I like the 
direction MOTA's taken. If keeping all that means converting it to an FPS I 
say go for it. The sooner we all make up our minds and stick to our 
decisions the sooner Thomas can get this game out the door and the sooner he 
can take the well-earned break he's been needing for some time now. The way 
I see it is it's everybody's fault we're in this situation now since people 
kept requesting nonstandard features as far as 80s side scrollers. So if 
Thomas were to decide to scrap the side scroller and go with the FPS, which 
in any case is the style he's more interested in making, we should just have 
to live with the decision. Nobody asked Thomas to take over the project 
after all, and nobody necessarily expected him to get slapped with a cease 
and desist right before he was about to release the game. I agree that side 
scrollers are a genre pretty much overlooked by most of the AG community and 
I'd love to see more, but I also agree that they have the potential to be 
too easy.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: Mich m...@ntl.sympatico.ca

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi Tom. As some one who grew up in the late 80's I was born in 1983. I 
remember playing the Nintendo with my sister and playing the Mario
Brothers games with her along with duck hunt witch I could still play 
after I lost my sight. With that said I think it would be nice to have a 
side scroller game like you had planned from the get go. I like the idea 
of pozzing the game and then being able to go back to it later on. Well 
those are my thoughts regarding this. from Mich Verrier from New Liskeard 
Ontario Canada.


---
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You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
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list,
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All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
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If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

2009-10-28 Thread Phil Vlasak


Hi Thomas,
My opinion is that the game is great the way it is and there is no need to 
make drastic changes in it.
There was never a blind friendly side scroller so I think having a swoosh 
sound when you miss, is consistent with the idea of making a pure visual 
game accessible.
I didn't know that when you were in range of a creature in a side scroller 
that you hit 100 percent of the time.
I am satisfied that if that is what happened in the original MR, then keep 
MOTA doing that.

sincerely,
Phil 



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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Well it's pretty much a given that we won't get network play in the first 
release even if, as I hope he does Thomas decides to modernize the game. I 
agree. I'd love to see accessible versions of some of my favorite classic 
games, but that's where you learn a programming language and code it 
yourself. Thomas wants the game OUT OF HIS HANDS as soon as possible and I 
don't blame him one bit. We should be thankful he's doing this at all since 
he's had to sacrifice a great deal of time he could have devoted to his 
wife, son and outside interests. Since adding an option in the menus or 
doing the classic side scroller later aren't options I say FPS. We need to 
start accepting the consequences of our actions here. We requested all these 
features, so if that means we get an FPS instead of a side scroler we need 
to live with that.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: Casey Mathews csm...@cfl.rr.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


I say Bring on the Modern FPS! I for one am tired of classic games. I want 
a modern game, that really rocks! Randomize everything, and I'd love a 
network play option! Modernize it all the way!


--
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:03 PM
To: gamers@audyssey.org
Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi everyone,
This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I 
think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as 
your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the 
game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you 
take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses 
very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me 
right now.
As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the 
classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders for 
that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he 
was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I 
took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite 
the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 
2008, had already taken orders for the game myself,  when I was contacted 
privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James 
or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the 
game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the 
game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began 
my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients.  It was initially 
intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, 
Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games.
The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the 
features modern FPS games have today. There  was no such thing as 
randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick 
up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss 
unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to 
beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you 
younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station 
and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation 
of gaming.
I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type 
of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more 
modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding no! A 
couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would 
like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out 
in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just 
that.
However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you 
began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game 
that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After 
some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring 
feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the 
feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a 
way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to 
stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it 
both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since 
most of the people liked it that way.
The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the 
passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would 
typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a 
posed to adding these kinds

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

I'd say the same Sean. It doesn't sound as though leaving it as is and just 
finishing it that way if I read Thomas' message right. I like the more 
challenging game that MOTA has become, so if keeping that means we need to 
go FPS I'm all for it. One thing Side Scroller pushers aren't considering is 
that any one of our devs could, if they so chose, create the classic, true 
80s style side scroller anytime. And since Thomas has spent three years and 
more on a project that wasn't really even his to begin with I feel he 
deserves some say in the matter. And since FPS style games are more to his 
taste I think that if enough people agree with him we should all live with 
the consequences. I for one don't want to see the classic side scroller if 
it means it'll go back to being static.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


to be honest tom at first I loathed the side scroler idea mainly because 
of not winning in pipe2 and superliam.

Now though I like it.
I also like the modernised mixed element never really liked the standard 
side scroler, if you can have it the way it is now fine.

If I was pushed into a decition I'd say fps style.
At 11:03 a.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote:

Hi everyone,
This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I 
think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your 
opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game 
from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take 
this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very 
carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right 
now.
As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the 
classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders for 
that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he 
was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I 
took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite 
the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 
2008, had already taken orders for the game myself,
when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright 
infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to 
make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and 
desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and desist 
order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the 
Ancients.  It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller along 
the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar 
games.
The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the 
features modern FPS games have today. There  was no such thing as randomly 
placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where 
you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you 
were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game 
and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it 
would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you 
are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming.
I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type 
of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more 
modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding no! A 
couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would 
like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out 
in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just 
that.
However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began 
making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was 
being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some 
debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature 
since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were 
happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it 
off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding 
features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had 
to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the 
people liked it that way.
The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the 
passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would 
typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a 
posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 
80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

2009-10-28 Thread Milos Przic

 and make this game 
as a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without randomized 
monsters and items, no save game features, no modern FPS influences of any 
kind, or would you rather I just completely ditch the entire classic 
side-scroller idea and create an actual modern FPS game with all the 
requests, suggestions, and modern features you want?Personally, as many of 
you consistently request more and more modern features from mainstream 
games you play I think the majority of you would be much happier with a 
straight out FPS type game. After all, that's what the Genesis Engine was 
initially designed for and it wouldn't take too long to convert the game 
over to an FPS type game. What do all of you Mysteries of the Ancients 
players think?
Before I go let me just say this. I would like to get an actual decision, 
a real answer, from this group regarding this question. I don't want any 
of the messages that say finish the side-scroller this year and then 
let's do an FPS game next year. I also don't want the type of answer that 
says, how about adding an option to the settings menu to turn this or 
that off. I'll say here and now my answer is an infatic no!
I hate to sound this way, but I am sick and tired of the stress and 
frustration of having to deal with requests, suggestions, etc that drag me 
in two completely different directions. If you guys want a totally modern 
FPS game just say so, and I'll do it that way. If you guys want a classic 
side-scroller I'll do that instead. What I will not continue to do is make 
a game based on a classic side-scroller, and get request after request for 
more FPS type features that improves/ruins the game depending on your 
point of view. It is time you guys decide what exactly you want this game 
to be, and stop telling me to write two completely different types of 
games. Is it a side-scroller or an FPS game? Is it to be a classic type of 
game or a modern type of game?


Sincerely frustrated:
Thomas Ward


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[Audyssey] a game idea... wall bumper

I thought of this when writing my message about mota's future, and this *is* 
not any real idea.
The game takes place in a giant maze, probably 1000x1000. you were drunk... but 
you slep, and you are over the hangover. you're fresh... but no! you've no 
orientation! rack up points in this fast pased modern fps game! bump into 
walls, locked doors, and be careful! your orientation will slowly rise! find 
beer bottlesand drink the contents of  them. when your you begin to see stars - 
hear the sound spinning in the stereofield you'll be up against a boss, god 
thomas of the  fps industry. kill him and his 3d related code blocks with your 
uncareful walking, while being careful, as these block's rise your orientation. 
if your orientation goes to 100, you walk out of the maze, and the game is over.

I guess that's something I'd be good at, *lol*.


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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

 the 
feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a 
way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to 
stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it 
both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since 
most of the people liked it that way.
The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the 
passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would 
typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a 
posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 
80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic 
side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that 
reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game 
is turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out  classic 
side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither 
one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but 
over the passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because 
it isn't the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like it.
So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this 
game as a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without 
randomized monsters and items, no save game features, no modern FPS 
influences of any kind, or would you rather I just completely ditch the 
entire classic side-scroller idea and create an actual modern FPS game 
with all the requests, suggestions, and modern features you 
want?Personally, as many of you consistently request more and more modern 
features from mainstream games you play I think the majority of you would 
be much happier with a straight out FPS type game. After all, that's what 
the Genesis Engine was initially designed for and it wouldn't take too 
long to convert the game over to an FPS type game. What do all of you 
Mysteries of the Ancients players think?
Before I go let me just say this. I would like to get an actual decision, 
a real answer, from this group regarding this question. I don't want any 
of the messages that say finish the side-scroller this year and then 
let's do an FPS game next year. I also don't want the type of answer 
that says, how about adding an option to the settings menu to turn this 
or that off. I'll say here and now my answer is an infatic no!
I hate to sound this way, but I am sick and tired of the stress and 
frustration of having to deal with requests, suggestions, etc that drag 
me in two completely different directions. If you guys want a totally 
modern FPS game just say so, and I'll do it that way. If you guys want a 
classic side-scroller I'll do that instead. What I will not continue to 
do is make a game based on a classic side-scroller, and get request after 
request for more FPS type features that improves/ruins the game depending 
on your point of view. It is time you guys decide what exactly you want 
this game to be, and stop telling me to write two completely different 
types of games. Is it a side-scroller or an FPS game? Is it to be a 
classic type of game or a modern type of game?


Sincerely frustrated:
Thomas Ward


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If you have any questions or concerns regarding

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither 
one, and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but 
over the passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because 
it isn't the game I wanted to create. It is nothing like it.
So here is the question. Do you guys want me to go back and make this 
game as a classic side-scroller, as was intended initially, without 
randomized monsters and items, no save game features, no modern FPS 
influences of any kind, or would you rather I just completely ditch the 
entire classic side-scroller idea and create an actual modern FPS game 
with all the requests, suggestions, and modern features you 
want?Personally, as many of you consistently request more and more modern 
features from mainstream games you play I think the majority of you would 
be much happier with a straight out FPS type game. After all, that's what 
the Genesis Engine was initially designed for and it wouldn't take too 
long to convert the game over to an FPS type game. What do all of you 
Mysteries of the Ancients players think?
Before I go let me just say this. I would like to get an actual decision, 
a real answer, from this group regarding this question. I don't want any 
of the messages that say finish the side-scroller this year and then 
let's do an FPS game next year. I also don't want the type of answer 
that says, how about adding an option to the settings menu to turn this 
or that off. I'll say here and now my answer is an infatic no!
I hate to sound this way, but I am sick and tired of the stress and 
frustration of having to deal with requests, suggestions, etc that drag 
me in two completely different directions. If you guys want a totally 
modern FPS game just say so, and I'll do it that way. If you guys want a 
classic side-scroller I'll do that instead. What I will not continue to 
do is make a game based on a classic side-scroller, and get request after 
request for more FPS type features that improves/ruins the game depending 
on your point of view. It is time you guys decide what exactly you want 
this game to be, and stop telling me to write two completely different 
types of games. Is it a side-scroller or an FPS game? Is it to be a 
classic type of game or a modern type of game?


Sincerely frustrated:
Thomas Ward


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[Audyssey] MOTA Voting


Hi all,
This is just a quick follow up to my last message. Now, that I have 
calmed down

I think it might be easier if you send an e-mail to my personal address
thomasward1...@gmail.com
with a subject like vote FPS ore Vote side-scroller so I can count 
the votes easier. It's alright to discuss it on the list, but it is 
obviously much harder for me to keep track who is voting for what.


Thanks.


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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

2009-10-28 Thread Yohandy

agree with you 100%!
- Original Message - 
From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

I'd say the same Sean. It doesn't sound as though leaving it as is and 
just finishing it that way if I read Thomas' message right. I like the 
more challenging game that MOTA has become, so if keeping that means we 
need to go FPS I'm all for it. One thing Side Scroller pushers aren't 
considering is that any one of our devs could, if they so chose, create 
the classic, true 80s style side scroller anytime. And since Thomas has 
spent three years and more on a project that wasn't really even his to 
begin with I feel he deserves some say in the matter. And since FPS style 
games are more to his taste I think that if enough people agree with him 
we should all live with the consequences. I for one don't want to see the 
classic side scroller if it means it'll go back to being static.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of 
pizza?

Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

to be honest tom at first I loathed the side scroler idea mainly because 
of not winning in pipe2 and superliam.

Now though I like it.
I also like the modernised mixed element never really liked the standard 
side scroler, if you can have it the way it is now fine.

If I was pushed into a decition I'd say fps style.
At 11:03 a.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote:

Hi everyone,
This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I 
think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as 
your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the 
game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you 
take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses 
very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me 
right now.
As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the 
classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders for 
that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he 
was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I 
took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite 
the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 
2008, had already taken orders for the game myself,
when I was contacted privately regarding the game's copyright 
infringement. As neither James or I had legally applied for permission to 
make a modern remake of the game I was officially ordered to cease and 
desist all development of the game. Rather than fight the cease and 
desist order I complied, and began my own side-scroller called Mysteries 
of the Ancients.  It was initially intended to be a classic side-scroller 
along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and 
similar games.
The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the 
features modern FPS games have today. There  was no such thing as 
randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick 
up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss 
unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to 
beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you 
younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station 
and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation 
of gaming.
I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type 
of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more 
modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding no! A 
couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would 
like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out 
in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just 
that.
However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you 
began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game 
that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After 
some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring 
feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the 
feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a 
way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to 
stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it 
both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since 
most of the people liked it that way.
The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the 
passed year I've been

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi Bryan,
I'd say burned out isn't the word for it. I've been working on Mysteries 
of the Ancients for going on a year with no clear direction. I've been 
getting suggestions from people who wanted a more classic game, like 
Montezuma's Revenge, and then I've got all these gamers who grew up with 
FPS games and so on that want more modern features. As a result I really 
have no idea what they really want any more, and I don't think they do 
either. Weather they knew it or not the game has gotten so close to an 
FPS game already it is easier to just make one than it would be to go 
back and make a classic side-scroller. To make a side-scroller, a 
classic one, I would basically have to start over from scratch.


Bryan Peterson wrote:
Personally, while I do like the idea of more side scrollers in the AG 
market I like the direction MOTA has taken so far. If keeping that 
means converting it to an FPS I personally would say go for that. The 
way I see it it's everybody's fault for requesting all these non-80s 
feature additions so they should have to live with the consequences. 
Someone else can develop their classic 80s style side scroller at a 
later time since I daresay you've become more than a little burnt out 
on the genre yourself.



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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

2009-10-28 Thread Richard Sherman

Hi Thomas,

Here is my opinion regarding this issue.

As you well know, you cannot please everyone. So having said that, go for what 
you want. Take everyone's opinions, and form the best game you want. it is your 
blood, sweat, and tears bringing this game to life. it should be pleasurable, 
not unbearable. Whichever way you go, make it a labor of love, not agony. I am 
pretty sure that the end result will be very good, and to most gamers likings.

Personally, I like the avenue the current version is going. Having had sight 
before, I like playing both side scrollers, and first person shooter games. The 
one thing none of them had was randomness. The best feature your game has. It 
immensely  adds to the replay value of the game. This makes your game unique. 
it is not a standard side scroller, nor a 3-d first person shooter, but 
something different. Different is what most gamers on this list have been 
asking for.

If I had to choose, go for the first person shooter style. 3-d if possible.

Good luck on whatever you decide.

Rich
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[Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Tom, I ask you one symple question.

Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 1980's 
arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door puzles, traps, 
bosses etc with fps.


In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the point 
scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.


Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later mario 
offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games like Donkey Kong 
country,  not to mention more modern continuations of those series' on 
the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy which are entirely original.


All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex, deeply 
interesting games a long way from the likes of the original montizuma's 
revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, have complex traps and 
mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a huge variety of enemies,   
both miner and major to fight.


In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I would 
be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have to 
automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?


What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been,   
developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a complex 2D 
game similar to those mentioned above.


this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would love to 
see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable potential which has 
been untapped.


Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you were 
invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.


But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. While I'm 
deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current direction, speaking as a 
player I certainly am, and would very much like it to continue as it is, and 
become the first complex 2D adventure in audio ever produced.


i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the fps 
idea, I equally think something very valuable in Mota would be lost.


We already have some great first person titles,  why not explore another 
avinue?


All the best,

Dark. 



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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

As I said in my post to Tom Bryan,  I stil fail to see the connection 
betwene complex features and ditching the side scrolling genre.


personally,  whild i'd enjoy an fps game as much as anyone, --- I'd be 
sorry to see this oppertunity lost.


Beware the grue!

dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Personally, while I do like the idea of more side scrollers in the AG 
market I like the direction MOTA has taken so far. If keeping that means 
converting it to an FPS I personally would say go for that. The way I see 
it it's everybody's fault for requesting all these non-80s feature 
additions so they should have to live with the consequences. Someone else 
can develop their classic 80s style side scroller at a later time since I 
daresay you've become more than a little burnt out on the genre yourself.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of 
pizza?

Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS



Hi everyone,
This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I 
think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as 
your opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the 
game from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you 
take this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses 
very carefully before responding as your input is very important to me 
right now.
As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the 
classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders for 
that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he 
was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I 
took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite 
the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 
2008, had already taken orders for the game myself,  when I was contacted 
privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James 
or I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the 
game I was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the 
game. Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began 
my own side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients.  It was initially 
intended to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, 
Montezuma's Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games.
The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the 
features modern FPS games have today. There  was no such thing as 
randomly placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick 
up where you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss 
unless you were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to 
beat the game and earn the highest score possible. For some of you 
younger gamers it would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station 
and XBox games you are use too. It was a completely different generation 
of gaming.
I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type 
of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more 
modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding no! A 
couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would 
like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out 
in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just 
that.
However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you 
began making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game 
that was being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After 
some debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring 
feature since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the 
feature were happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a 
way to turn it off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to 
stop adding features like that. Since it was too much work to have it 
both ways I had to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since 
most of the people liked it that way.
The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the 
passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would 
typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a 
posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 
80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic 
side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that 
reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the

Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

2009-10-28 Thread clement chou


Hi Tom.

Came in a bit late here, and I really don't know what my opinion is going to 
mean. But here it is.


I'm young. I'm 17, and the first console I ever touched was a super 
nintendo.I haven't had the true xperience of playing sidescrollers from the 
80s. The few I do play are mostly emulated. However, this is short so I'l 
make it that.
I admire what you're doing, and I think the game s turning out to be a great 
one, despite the fact that you and some of s on the list might not like the 
direction. However, as Dark said, there are a lot of shoters that are also 
side-scrollers. Bionic Cmando, metal slug to name a couple. Bionic commando 
is similar o mota, at least it oked it wen I thought back. As to what I 
think, I personally like the bit of mix between hte tw styles.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 2:03 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS



Hi everyone,
This has been something I've wanted to say for quite a while now, and I 
think now is the time I need to say it. To get this out of the way as your 
opinions, responses, etc will completely determine the future of the game 
from here on out. This is extremely important, and I hope all of you take 
this message very seriously. I hope you think about your responses very 
carefully before responding as your input is very important to me right 
now.
As most of you know James North was planning on releasing a remake of the 
classic side-scroller Montezuma's Revenge. He took several orders for 
that game in December of 2004, but do to a variety of personal issues he 
was unable to complete the game within the time specified. Eventually, I 
took over development of the game in early 2006, and I decided to rewrite 
the game in C# .NET. I was nearly finished with the game in January of 
2008, had already taken orders for the game myself,  when I was contacted 
privately regarding the game's copyright infringement. As neither James or 
I had legally applied for permission to make a modern remake of the game I 
was officially ordered to cease and desist all development of the game. 
Rather than fight the cease and desist order I complied, and began my own 
side-scroller called Mysteries of the Ancients.  It was initially intended 
to be a classic side-scroller along the lines of Pitfall, Montezuma's 
Revenge, Mario Brothers, and similar games.
The thing to keep in mind here is that those games lacked many of the 
features modern FPS games have today. There  was no such thing as randomly 
placed items and monsters, you couldn't save your game and pick up where 
you left off later, when you punched an enemy you didn't miss unless you 
were too far away, etc. The main object of the game was to beat the game 
and earn the highest score possible. For some of you younger gamers it 
would be quite primitive compared to the Play Station and XBox games you 
are use too. It was a completely different generation of gaming.
I realized back then that many of you may not be happy with a 1980's type 
of side-scroller. I asked many of you if you would be happy with a more 
modern FPS game instead. The answer i got back was a resounding no! A 
couple of you wrote me very passionate letters about how much you would 
like to be able to play a classic side-scroller like those that were out 
in the 1980's that you were never able to play. So I set out to do just 
that.
However, what I had feared all along began to come true. Many of you began 
making requests that were completely contrary to the type of game that was 
being developed. You asked for random items and monsters. After some 
debate I decided to add that feature, and removed the scoring feature 
since it was no longer needed. Those of you who wanted the feature were 
happy to get it, but those who didn't began asking me for a way to turn it 
off. They wanted a classic side-scroller, and asked me to stop adding 
features like that. Since it was too much work to have it both ways I had 
to decide to leave the random items and monsters in since most of the 
people liked it that way.
The thing is the suggestions and requests didn't stop there. Over the 
passed year I've been consistently asked to add features like you would 
typically find on more modern FPS type games. It isn't so much I am a 
posed to adding these kinds of features, but it is inconsistent with an 
80's type side-scroller. As the game currently is it is neither a classic 
side-scroller, and it isn't a fully modern FPS game either. For that 
reason some people, including myself, are unhappy with the way the game is 
turning out. I would much prefer either a straight out  classic 
side-scroller or a modern FPS game. At this point the game is neither one, 
and is a bit of a mix of both styles. That might not be bad, but over the 
passed few months I've grown to completely hate the game because it isn't 
the game I wanted to create. It is

Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scrolle r vs FPS

2009-10-28 Thread matheus

hi.
i have to agree with everything you sayd here dark. i think that the way
the game is right now is really good. it's challenging, new (bekause
it's a mix of new things like random monsters / saving feature / etc)
and fun. if i really have to vote, i'd choose the fps. but i think that
finishing this game like it is now, just adding more levels, whould be
good enough.
thanks.

-Mensagem original-
De: dark d...@xgam.org
Para: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Data: Quarta, 28 de Outubro de 2009 22:33
Assunto: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Tom, I ask you one symple question.

Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 1980's
arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door puzles, traps,
bosses etc with fps.

In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the point
scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.

Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later mario
offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games like Donkey Kong
country,  not to mention more modern continuations of those series' on
the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy which are entirely original.

All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex, deeply
interesting games a long way from the likes of the original montizuma's
revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, have complex traps and
mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a huge variety of enemies, 
both miner and major to fight.

In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I would
be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have to
automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?

What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been, 
developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a complex 2D
game similar to those mentioned above.

this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would love to
see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable potential which has
been untapped.

Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you were
invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.

But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. While I'm
deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current direction, speaking as a
player I certainly am, and would very much like it to continue as it is, and
become the first complex 2D adventure in audio ever produced.

i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the fps
idea, I equally think something very valuable in Mota would be lost.

We already have some great first person titles,  why not explore another
avinue?

All the best,

Dark.


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Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

I'd actually agree here. we don't have to stick to one type or another. 
thjat said, gotta go.
- Original Message - 
From: matheus an...@bol.com.br

To: gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

hi.
i have to agree with everything you sayd here dark. i think that the way
the game is right now is really good. it's challenging, new (bekause
it's a mix of new things like random monsters / saving feature / etc)
and fun. if i really have to vote, i'd choose the fps. but i think that
finishing this game like it is now, just adding more levels, whould be
good enough.
thanks.

-Mensagem original-
De: dark d...@xgam.org
Para: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Data: Quarta, 28 de Outubro de 2009 22:33
Assunto: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Tom, I ask you one symple question.

Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 1980's
arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door puzles, traps,
bosses etc with fps.

In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the point
scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.

Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later mario
offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games like Donkey 
Kong

country,  not to mention more modern continuations of those series' on
the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy which are entirely original.

All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex, 
deeply

interesting games a long way from the likes of the original montizuma's
revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, have complex traps 
and

mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a huge variety of enemies, 
both miner and major to fight.

In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I would
be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have to
automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?

What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been, 
developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a complex 
2D

game similar to those mentioned above.

this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would love 
to
see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable potential which 
has

been untapped.

Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you were
invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.

But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. While I'm
deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current direction, speaking as 
a
player I certainly am, and would very much like it to continue as it is, 
and

become the first complex 2D adventure in audio ever produced.

i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the fps
idea, I equally think something very valuable in Mota would be lost.

We already have some great first person titles,  why not explore 
another

avinue?

All the best,

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

I think the issue here Dark is that MOTA was initially Monte, which was 
based off a classic 80s side scroller, which featured none of the 
challenging elements MOTA has come to embrace.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:33 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Tom, I ask you one symple question.

Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 1980's 
arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door puzles, traps, 
bosses etc with fps.

In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the point 
scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.

Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later mario 
offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games like Donkey 
Kong country,  not to mention more modern continuations of those 
series' on the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy which are entirely original.

All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex, 
deeply interesting games a long way from the likes of the original 
montizuma's revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, have 
complex traps and mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a huge 
variety of enemies,   both miner and major to fight.

In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I would 
be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have to 
automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?

What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been,   
developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a complex 
2D game similar to those mentioned above.

this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would love 
to see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable potential which 
has been untapped.

Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you were 
invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.

But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. While I'm 
deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current direction, speaking as 
a player I certainly am, and would very much like it to continue as it is, 
and become the first complex 2D adventure in audio ever produced.

i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the fps 
idea, I equally think something very valuable in Mota would be lost.

We already have some great first person titles,  why not explore 
another avinue?

All the best,

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi Peter and all,
I understand your problem/frustration with FPS style games. There are a 
lot of blind gamers that have no sense of direction when it comes to 
accessible FPS games. Though, there aren't that many truly accessible 
FPS games other than Sarah, Monkey Business, Shades of Doom, and a 
couple of others.
However, most of the features you and others like about Mysteries of the 
Ancients like random monsters, random items, the ability to save games, 
etc aren't side-scroller features. Those kinds of features were 
introduced when the FPS games like Doom, Quake, Jedi Knight, Tomb 
Raider, etc started coming out for the sighted market. Before that most 
games were simple arcade games.
So what I am  asking you and is others is not for Mysteries of the 
Ancients as it is now, but to be written as it was intended to be. That 
is designed like a 1980's style side-scroller without all of the modern 
influences, or to design it like a modern FPS game similar to Tomb 
Raider and other more modern games. I am not sure if you were one of the 
people who preordered the game or not, but it might be helpful to see 
things from my perspective for a moment.
When James North and I took preorders for Montezuma's Revenge it was 
with the understanding we would create and sell a classic side-scroller. 
Now, I have many people who want to hold me to that plan. However, there 
is this other group who demand modern features like the ability to save 
the game, randomize everything, include a targeting beep, whatever. As a 
result Mysteries of the Ancients is becoming more and more like an FPS 
game, and less and less like the game I actually sold to my original 
customers. So neither side is really getting what they wanted, and many 
of the customers feel they aren't getting what they paid for. So as a 
developer do i take out all the modern features, make it like the game I 
was going to sell, or do I just make something totally modern and different?
As you can see it is a very big problem. The stress from this game is 
beginning to drive me crazy, because I don't really know which side to 
listen to. It is not a simple decision for me.


peter Mahach wrote:

hi thomas,
here is my point of view.
I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I 
mostly bump into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a 
big fan of side scrollers as that's something I can play... and I 
enjoyed mota how it is now. I'd not want to see another stupid game 
that I'll suck at... please, no! no wall bumping, no compass... please 
leave it as it is!



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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Exactly clement,  i missed both the game series you mention too ;D.

to take a basic and simple example of features, --- - there's aiming.

In many 80's games there wasn't an aiming option,  in fact in original 
montizumas return there weren't even useabnle weapons,  just items which 
would instantly kill an enemy when you touched them rather like packman's 
power pills.


As side scrollers evolved however, more aiming options came in.

Super metroid for instance featured an eigh way aiming system,  thus to 
kill things above you instead of jumping and firing you could aim at an 
upward angle,  or even stand undernieth them and shoot skywards.


the turrican games featured a surround laser which you could whirl around 
your character in 360 degrees,  taking enemeis out at all angles. Super 
castlevania featured a whip, which you could swing or flick in eight 
directions, quickly or slowly,  and flail around to hit things in 
betwene.


There are just as many aiming options in side scrollers as in fps games.

Thus, we can have a side scroller,  and! have complex combat with aiming 
too.


this is just one example, there are many more I could think of to cover 
hosts of in game features.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: clement chou chou.clem...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS



Hi Tom.

Came in a bit late here, and I really don't know what my opinion is going 
to mean. But here it is.


I'm young. I'm 17, and the first console I ever touched was a super 
nintendo.I haven't had the true xperience of playing sidescrollers from 
the 80s. The few I do play are mostly emulated. However, this is short so 
I'l make it that.
I admire what you're doing, and I think the game s turning out to be a 
great one, despite the fact that you and some of s on the list might not 
like the direction. However, as Dark said, there are a lot of shoters that 
are also side-scrollers. Bionic Cmando, metal slug to name a couple. 
Bionic commando is similar o mota, at least it oked it wen I thought back. 
As to what I think, I personally like the bit of mix between hte tw 
styles.
- Original Message - 



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Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Well, imho making the game a modern 90's style side scroller would be less 
of a major change than turning it fps,  and if the direction needs a 
change, this would be my recommendation.


Afterall,  people would stil get a side scroller,  even if it was 
not quite the side scroller they expected (as someone who bought the game, 
I'd be infinitely happy with this option).


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


I think the issue here Dark is that MOTA was initially Monte, which was 
based off a classic 80s side scroller, which featured none of the 
challenging elements MOTA has come to embrace.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of 
pizza?

Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:33 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS



Tom, I ask you one symple question.

Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 
1980's arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door puzles, 
traps, bosses etc with fps.


In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the point 
scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.


Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later mario 
offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games like Donkey 
Kong country,  not to mention more modern continuations of those 
series' on the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy which are entirely 
original.


All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex, 
deeply interesting games a long way from the likes of the original 
montizuma's revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, have 
complex traps and mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a huge 
variety of enemies,   both miner and major to fight.


In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I 
would be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have to 
automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?


What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been,   
developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a complex 
2D game similar to those mentioned above.


this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would love 
to see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable potential 
which has been untapped.


Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you were 
invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.


But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. While 
I'm deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current direction, 
speaking as a player I certainly am, and would very much like it to 
continue as it is, and become the first complex 2D adventure in audio 
ever produced.


i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the fps 
idea, I equally think something very valuable in Mota would be lost.


We already have some great first person titles,  why not explore 
another avinue?


All the best,

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

I tend to agree with that, but if we have to choose I'd say the FPS. I don't 
want to lose the clallenge that keeps me coming back.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: matheus an...@bol.com.br

To: gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

hi.
i have to agree with everything you sayd here dark. i think that the way
the game is right now is really good. it's challenging, new (bekause
it's a mix of new things like random monsters / saving feature / etc)
and fun. if i really have to vote, i'd choose the fps. but i think that
finishing this game like it is now, just adding more levels, whould be
good enough.
thanks.

-Mensagem original-
De: dark d...@xgam.org
Para: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Data: Quarta, 28 de Outubro de 2009 22:33
Assunto: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Tom, I ask you one symple question.

Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 1980's
arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door puzles, traps,
bosses etc with fps.

In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the point
scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.

Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later mario
offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games like Donkey 
Kong

country,  not to mention more modern continuations of those series' on
the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy which are entirely original.

All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex, 
deeply

interesting games a long way from the likes of the original montizuma's
revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, have complex traps 
and

mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a huge variety of enemies, 
both miner and major to fight.

In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I would
be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have to
automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?

What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been, 
developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a complex 
2D

game similar to those mentioned above.

this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would love 
to
see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable potential which 
has

been untapped.

Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you were
invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.

But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. While I'm
deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current direction, speaking as 
a
player I certainly am, and would very much like it to continue as it is, 
and

become the first complex 2D adventure in audio ever produced.

i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the fps
idea, I equally think something very valuable in Mota would be lost.

We already have some great first person titles,  why not explore 
another

avinue?

All the best,

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

2009-10-28 Thread Yohandy

and again, you guys fail to understand that Thomas is sick and tired of the 
game. I think he stated this quite clearly in his message. There's nothing 
wrong in MOTA continuing the way it's going, but there's something wrong 
with us all if we force Thomas to work on a game he started hating long ago 
for obvious reasons. Thomas, I suggest you do this and this is only my 
opinion. Make the game you wish to make, and don't update us on anything. do 
not post any betas to the list, or any progress reports. whenever the game's 
ready, then release it to the public.



- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:33 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS



Tom, I ask you one symple question.

Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 1980's 
arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door puzles, traps, 
bosses etc with fps.


In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the point 
scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.


Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later mario 
offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games like Donkey 
Kong country,  not to mention more modern continuations of those 
series' on the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy which are entirely original.


All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex, 
deeply interesting games a long way from the likes of the original 
montizuma's revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, have 
complex traps and mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a huge 
variety of enemies,   both miner and major to fight.


In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I would 
be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have to 
automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?


What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been,   
developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a complex 
2D game similar to those mentioned above.


this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would love 
to see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable potential which 
has been untapped.


Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you were 
invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.


But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. While I'm 
deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current direction, speaking as 
a player I certainly am, and would very much like it to continue as it is, 
and become the first complex 2D adventure in audio ever produced.


i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the fps 
idea, I equally think something very valuable in Mota would be lost.


We already have some great first person titles,  why not explore 
another avinue?


All the best,

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Actually Tom,

Saving has been around for years!

Even original Metroid and the Mega man series on the Nes had password 
systems which allowed saving of the games.


Later, as battery backup was developed, actual saving occurred on the Snes, 
features prominantly in games like the later marrio or kirby offerings and 
Super Metroid.


Similarly with random monsters and items.

Mega man x6 featured fully random generating levels, and even ice climber on 
the nes (a classic side scroller if ever there was one), featured randomly 
appearing monsters who's frequency and speed varied according to level.


Items were frequently randomized in series like Turrican as well so as to 
offer the player different weapons etc to deal with.


Beware the grue!

dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS



Hi Peter and all,
I understand your problem/frustration with FPS style games. There are a 
lot of blind gamers that have no sense of direction when it comes to 
accessible FPS games. Though, there aren't that many truly accessible FPS 
games other than Sarah, Monkey Business, Shades of Doom, and a couple of 
others.
However, most of the features you and others like about Mysteries of the 
Ancients like random monsters, random items, the ability to save games, 
etc aren't side-scroller features. Those kinds of features were introduced 
when the FPS games like Doom, Quake, Jedi Knight, Tomb Raider, etc started 
coming out for the sighted market. Before that most games were simple 
arcade games.
So what I am  asking you and is others is not for Mysteries of the 
Ancients as it is now, but to be written as it was intended to be. That is 
designed like a 1980's style side-scroller without all of the modern 
influences, or to design it like a modern FPS game similar to Tomb Raider 
and other more modern games. I am not sure if you were one of the people 
who preordered the game or not, but it might be helpful to see things from 
my perspective for a moment.
When James North and I took preorders for Montezuma's Revenge it was with 
the understanding we would create and sell a classic side-scroller. Now, I 
have many people who want to hold me to that plan. However, there is this 
other group who demand modern features like the ability to save the game, 
randomize everything, include a targeting beep, whatever. As a result 
Mysteries of the Ancients is becoming more and more like an FPS game, and 
less and less like the game I actually sold to my original customers. So 
neither side is really getting what they wanted, and many of the customers 
feel they aren't getting what they paid for. So as a developer do i take 
out all the modern features, make it like the game I was going to sell, or 
do I just make something totally modern and different?
As you can see it is a very big problem. The stress from this game is 
beginning to drive me crazy, because I don't really know which side to 
listen to. It is not a simple decision for me.


peter Mahach wrote:

hi thomas,
here is my point of view.
I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly 
bump into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of 
side scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how 
it is now. I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... 
please, no! no wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is!



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Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

I fully agree that Thomas,  as the game's creater has the ultimate say 
so and should be the final authority, nor obviously should he make a game he 
doesn't want to.


I do wonder though if his completely understandable tiredness with the game 
is perhaps stopping him from realizing the truly great steps Mota has been 
making in audio, as the first complex audio 2D game.


this is another reason I'm so adamant about wanting the direction of 
developement to continue as is as much as possible,  while I'm sure tom 
would make either an outstanding 80's side scroller (those of us who played 
his original Monti versions can vouch for this), or a great fps game, I'd 
not want to see what he's already achieved be lost.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


and again, you guys fail to understand that Thomas is sick and tired of 
the game. I think he stated this quite clearly in his message. There's 
nothing wrong in MOTA continuing the way it's going, but there's something 
wrong with us all if we force Thomas to work on a game he started hating 
long ago for obvious reasons. Thomas, I suggest you do this and this is 
only my opinion. Make the game you wish to make, and don't update us on 
anything. do not post any betas to the list, or any progress reports. 
whenever the game's ready, then release it to the public.



- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:33 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS



Tom, I ask you one symple question.

Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 
1980's arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door puzles, 
traps, bosses etc with fps.


In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the point 
scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.


Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later mario 
offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games like Donkey 
Kong country,  not to mention more modern continuations of those 
series' on the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy which are entirely 
original.


All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex, 
deeply interesting games a long way from the likes of the original 
montizuma's revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, have 
complex traps and mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a huge 
variety of enemies,   both miner and major to fight.


In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I 
would be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have to 
automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?


What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been,   
developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a complex 
2D game similar to those mentioned above.


this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would love 
to see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable potential 
which has been untapped.


Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you were 
invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.


But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. While 
I'm deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current direction, 
speaking as a player I certainly am, and would very much like it to 
continue as it is, and become the first complex 2D adventure in audio 
ever produced.


i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the fps 
idea, I equally think something very valuable in Mota would be lost.


We already have some great first person titles,  why not explore 
another avinue?


All the best,

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi Shaun,
And that is really the problem. As I just said to Peter I took preorders 
with the understanding I would be selling a classic side-scroller. Over 
time though do to endless user suggestions, requests, etc I have not 
stayed true to that plan. Mysteries of the Ancients sstarted out as a 
classic side-scroller, but has had many modern influences, additions, so 
that some of my customers are starting to complain it isn't the game 
they paid for. I know if I listen to them and take out the random items, 
random monsters, save game feature, put back the scoring feature, etc 
the game may not sell well. Far too many people want these features, but 
there is still the group who don't. So I'm stuck between a rock and a 
hard place. I am stuck between two completely different groups who want 
two very different games.
The only way I can see to solve this problem is to force the users to 
vote on which way they want it. Do those who paid for the game really 
and truly want to stick with a classic side-scroller, or should I just 
ditch the entire side-scroller idea and swich to a true FPS game. Do I 
try and do the middle man thing  by writing a side-scroller with lots of 
modern features? It isn't the sort of decision I can make on my own 
since I have several people waiting on this game on preorder status.


HTH

shaun everiss wrote:

to be honest tom at first I loathed the side scroler idea mainly because of not 
winning in pipe2 and superliam.
Now though I like it.
I also like the modernised mixed element never really liked the standard side 
scroler, if you can have it the way it is now fine.
If I was pushed into a decition I'd say fps style.
  



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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

To be honest I'm not sure what the issue is here. In my experience a side
scroller's main feature dealt with the placement of the camera. Certainly
there were no save features for side scrollers in the eighties, but that's
because we had wonderful things called passwords. Remember Mega Man and the
silly placement of red and blue dots? Or American Gladiators and the random,
easily hacked sequence of A's and B's? Let's not forget all the majorly
complicated strings of letters and numbers like those found in Metroid or
River City Ransom. Justin Bailey anyone?

And random placement? Not every candle/torch/camp fire in Castlevania always
had the same contents when you broke it open, and enemies were always
dropping different items in Mega Man based on random chance.

So what's the issue here? A true side scroller? You already have that. You
press left to move left and right to move right. Beyond that everything else
is just design. It could be never ending like pit fall. It could be
fast-paced and criminally difficult like Contra. It could be all about
scoring points, saving the princess, or taking down the Shredder.

Personally I don't care about the money anymore. I bought the game five
years ago along with Max Shrapnel and a three month subscription to the ESP
server. Since then I haven't seen anything, and I've given up my $100.77 as
water under the bridge and a lesson well learned. So for what it's worth, my
comments aren't predicated on a need to feel vindicated.

With that in mind, I just don't see what the issue is. So the game isn't
Russian Attack. It's not Double Dragon either. Who cares? You have the major
engine concepts in place and enough technical know-how to finish the project
and write it off as an experience never to repeat. Do what you want with the
game, get it off your desk, and stop trying to please everyone; you won't be
able to.

Ryan

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:30 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Hi Bryan,
I'd say burned out isn't the word for it. I've been working on Mysteries 
of the Ancients for going on a year with no clear direction. I've been 
getting suggestions from people who wanted a more classic game, like 
Montezuma's Revenge, and then I've got all these gamers who grew up with 
FPS games and so on that want more modern features. As a result I really 
have no idea what they really want any more, and I don't think they do 
either. Weather they knew it or not the game has gotten so close to an 
FPS game already it is easier to just make one than it would be to go 
back and make a classic side-scroller. To make a side-scroller, a 
classic one, I would basically have to start over from scratch.

Bryan Peterson wrote:
 Personally, while I do like the idea of more side scrollers in the AG 
 market I like the direction MOTA has taken so far. If keeping that 
 means converting it to an FPS I personally would say go for that. The 
 way I see it it's everybody's fault for requesting all these non-80s 
 feature additions so they should have to live with the consequences. 
 Someone else can develop their classic 80s style side scroller at a 
 later time since I daresay you've become more than a little burnt out 
 on the genre yourself.


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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

hear is a semi wacky idea, have fps but have an optional sound pack to make it 
sound like one of those 80s arcade machines.
At 12:30 p.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote:
Hi Bryan,
I'd say burned out isn't the word for it. I've been working on Mysteries of 
the Ancients for going on a year with no clear direction. I've been getting 
suggestions from people who wanted a more classic game, like Montezuma's 
Revenge, and then I've got all these gamers who grew up with FPS games and so 
on that want more modern features. As a result I really have no idea what they 
really want any more, and I don't think they do either. Weather they knew it 
or not the game has gotten so close to an FPS game already it is easier to 
just make one than it would be to go back and make a classic side-scroller. To 
make a side-scroller, a classic one, I would basically have to start over from 
scratch.

Bryan Peterson wrote:
Personally, while I do like the idea of more side scrollers in the AG market 
I like the direction MOTA has taken so far. If keeping that means converting 
it to an FPS I personally would say go for that. The way I see it it's 
everybody's fault for requesting all these non-80s feature additions so they 
should have to live with the consequences. Someone else can develop their 
classic 80s style side scroller at a later time since I daresay you've become 
more than a little burnt out on the genre yourself.


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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi Casey,
The Genesis Engine currently does not have a network play option, and 
nor am I going to take several weeks/months to research and design one 
from scratch. The Genesis Engine is fairly stable now, and it is 
primarily an FPS engine. Converting Mysteries of the Ancients to an FPS 
game is easy enough to do since the engine is designed that way, but 
adding network play is a major upgrade and undertaking. So any 
converting or upgrading I do will primarily be based on existing 
features and abilities of the engine.


Smile.

Casey Mathews wrote:
I say Bring on the Modern FPS! I for one am tired of classic games. I 
want a modern game, that really rocks! Randomize everything, and I'd 
love a network play option! Modernize it all the way!



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Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

I think you've all forgotten just what the original demo was like. It was
nothing--and I mean nothing--like the eighties-style game it was named for.
Just because the original Monte was released in the eighties doesn't mean
that's the direction James North was planning to take his game in.

Why do I feel like we're debating constitutional law and what our
forefathers really meant?

Ryan

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Peterson
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:51 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

I think the issue here Dark is that MOTA was initially Monte, which was 
based off a classic 80s side scroller, which featured none of the 
challenging elements MOTA has come to embrace.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:33 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


 Tom, I ask you one symple question.

 Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 1980's

 arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door puzles, traps, 
 bosses etc with fps.

 In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the point 
 scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.

 Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later mario 
 offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games like Donkey 
 Kong country,  not to mention more modern continuations of those 
 series' on the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy which are entirely original.

 All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex, 
 deeply interesting games a long way from the likes of the original 
 montizuma's revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, have 
 complex traps and mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a huge 
 variety of enemies,   both miner and major to fight.

 In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I would

 be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have to 
 automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?

 What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been,   
 developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a complex 
 2D game similar to those mentioned above.

 this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would love 
 to see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable potential which

 has been untapped.

 Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you were 
 invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.

 But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. While I'm

 deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current direction, speaking as

 a player I certainly am, and would very much like it to continue as it is,

 and become the first complex 2D adventure in audio ever produced.

 i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the fps 
 idea, I equally think something very valuable in Mota would be lost.

 We already have some great first person titles,  why not explore 
 another avinue?

 All the best,

 Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

well you could always make the simple scroler for those that asked for one I 
don't mind waiting another 4 years for my fps game.
At 12:54 p.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote:
Hi Peter and all,
I understand your problem/frustration with FPS style games. There are a lot of 
blind gamers that have no sense of direction when it comes to accessible FPS 
games. Though, there aren't that many truly accessible FPS games other than 
Sarah, Monkey Business, Shades of Doom, and a couple of others.
However, most of the features you and others like about Mysteries of the 
Ancients like random monsters, random items, the ability to save games, etc 
aren't side-scroller features. Those kinds of features were introduced when 
the FPS games like Doom, Quake, Jedi Knight, Tomb Raider, etc started coming 
out for the sighted market. Before that most games were simple arcade games.
So what I am  asking you and is others is not for Mysteries of the Ancients as 
it is now, but to be written as it was intended to be. That is designed like a 
1980's style side-scroller without all of the modern influences, or to design 
it like a modern FPS game similar to Tomb Raider and other more modern games. 
I am not sure if you were one of the people who preordered the game or not, 
but it might be helpful to see things from my perspective for a moment.
When James North and I took preorders for Montezuma's Revenge it was with the 
understanding we would create and sell a classic side-scroller. Now, I have 
many people who want to hold me to that plan. However, there is this other 
group who demand modern features like the ability to save the game, randomize 
everything, include a targeting beep, whatever. As a result Mysteries of the 
Ancients is becoming more and more like an FPS game, and less and less like 
the game I actually sold to my original customers. So neither side is really 
getting what they wanted, and many of the customers feel they aren't getting 
what they paid for. So as a developer do i take out all the modern features, 
make it like the game I was going to sell, or do I just make something totally 
modern and different?
As you can see it is a very big problem. The stress from this game is 
beginning to drive me crazy, because I don't really know which side to listen 
to. It is not a simple decision for me.

peter Mahach wrote:
hi thomas,
here is my point of view.
I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly bump 
into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of side 
scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how it is now. 
I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... please, no! no 
wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is!


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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi Phil,
Actually, the combat in Montezuma's Revenge was a bit strange  even for 
games of that era. When you picked up a sword as soon as you got near to 
a skull or spider Panama Joe would automatically swing it. after the 
monster was killed the sword vanished from your inventory, and of course 
you had to find another one. If you didn't have  a sword you had to jump 
over the monster.
However, as best I can recall in games like Double Dragon, Legend of 
Kage, as long as you were close enough to an enemy you hit it. There are 
some exceptions like the bosses in Megaman that would evade attacks, and 
they were even invonerable to certain attacks. So having Angela miss 
isn't completely out of line, and nor was I upset by that feature 
request. It is more to do with I am getting requests both on and off 
list dealing with all kinds of features that aren't typical for a 
side-scroller. Features that would be better suited for an FPS game.
If I don't add those feature requests it is completely possible those 
people may not buy the game. It dosn't have the features they want and 
so on.
If I do add them I get nagged from the other side saying they baught 
Montezuma's Revenge, a classic side-scroller at least, and I'm not 
delivering the type of game I promised etc, etc, etc. All those nifty 
features most people like, would be willing to pay for, aren't what a 
few other people want.


Phil Vlasak wrote:

Hi Thomas,
My opinion is that the game is great the way it is and there is no 
need to make drastic changes in it.
There was never a blind friendly side scroller so I think having a 
swoosh sound when you miss, is consistent with the idea of making a 
pure visual game accessible.
I didn't know that when you were in range of a creature in a side 
scroller that you hit 100 percent of the time.
I am satisfied that if that is what happened in the original MR, then 
keep MOTA doing that.

sincerely,
Phil



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Re: [Audyssey] a game idea... wall bumper


Hi Peter,
Lol! That was funny. Thanks for the laughs.

Smile.

peter Mahach wrote:

I thought of this when writing my message about mota's future, and this *is* 
not any real idea.
The game takes place in a giant maze, probably 1000x1000. you were drunk... but 
you slep, and you are over the hangover. you're fresh... but no! you've no 
orientation! rack up points in this fast pased modern fps game! bump into 
walls, locked doors, and be careful! your orientation will slowly rise! find 
beer bottlesand drink the contents of  them. when your you begin to see stars - 
hear the sound spinning in the stereofield you'll be up against a boss, god 
thomas of the  fps industry. kill him and his 3d related code blocks with your 
uncareful walking, while being careful, as these block's rise your orientation. 
if your orientation goes to 100, you walk out of the maze, and the game is over.

I guess that's something I'd be good at, *lol*.


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[Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Hi Tom. 


Here's a rather crazy idea to salve the feelings of those who are desperate for 
an 80's game. 

Go back to the last stable version of montizuma's return,  say beta 9,  
I stil have this on my harddrive,  which is possibly illegal, but deleting 
good games is against my principles.

The game already has 6, highly playable 80's side scroller levels. 

Re-reccord the name of the game to something generic,  Temple adventures, 
treasure quest, --- Montizuma's avengence, do a quick search and replace on the 
instructions to change the name of panama Jo to something else,  peruvian 
Jim? 

Then offer it as an extra freeby to those who buy Mota.

They then get all of Mota,  which I hope will continue as a modern side 
scroller, pluss 6 levels of pure classic 80's! 

Just a suggestion. 

all the best, 

Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi Bryan and all,
Another point most proponents of a side-scroller don't realize is that 
the majority of side-scrollers don't have much variation from level to 
level. In the classic Super Mario Brothers you had an overworld level, 
underworld level, a waterworld level, and the castle level. After a 
while the game just looped through variations of these levels with very 
miner changes thrown in here and there, but were basically the same 
levels over and over again.
Montezuma's Revenge had the same problem. After a few levels you would 
get to play the same level again only with some variation like a burning 
rope instead of a regular rope, skulls were invincible, the rooms were 
darker, enemies were faster, whatever. Back then it didn't seam like a 
big deal if the game kept giving you the same levels over and over again 
because that is what we all were use to.
Ok, now I am writing this side-scroller. I don't want to reuse the same 
levels over again so I have been trying to come up with 12 unique game 
levels. That's harder said than done since most side-scrollers start at 
the bottom lefthand corner and you must work your way to the righthand 
corner of the level. There are some exceptions to that rule, but let's 
not forget we are working with a 2d flat serfice which limits the number 
of rooms, secret areas, whatever we can add to that level.


Bryan Peterson wrote:
I'd say the same Sean. It doesn't sound as though leaving it as is and 
just finishing it that way if I read Thomas' message right. I like the 
more challenging game that MOTA has become, so if keeping that means 
we need to go FPS I'm all for it. One thing Side Scroller pushers 
aren't considering is that any one of our devs could, if they so 
chose, create the classic, true 80s style side scroller anytime. And 
since Thomas has spent three years and more on a project that wasn't 
really even his to begin with I feel he deserves some say in the 
matter. And since FPS style games are more to his taste I think that 
if enough people agree with him we should all live with the 
consequences. I for one don't want to see the classic side scroller if 
it means it'll go back to being static.



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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hello Tom.

Oncemore,  this is something which changed entirely as side scrollers 
evolved.


the first turrican game for instance produced in 1990, had five worlds. 
While certain enemy types were recycled for the levels of one world, each 
level also had unique features as well,  and of course each world had a 
completely unique enemy and trap set.


The second turrican game released in 1991 had an even more unique set of 
settings for levels and their enemies.


while some enemies,  such as the generic walkers, would appear in 
multiple stages, others,  right up until the last level, would be 
completely unique.


Again, this was an evolution of the side scrolling genre from the days of 
the 80's onwards.


Beware the Grue!

dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS



Hi Bryan and all,
Another point most proponents of a side-scroller don't realize is that the 
majority of side-scrollers don't have much variation from level to level. 
In the classic Super Mario Brothers you had an overworld level, underworld 
level, a waterworld level, and the castle level. After a while the game 
just looped through variations of these levels with very miner changes 
thrown in here and there, but were basically the same levels over and over 
again.
Montezuma's Revenge had the same problem. After a few levels you would get 
to play the same level again only with some variation like a burning rope 
instead of a regular rope, skulls were invincible, the rooms were darker, 
enemies were faster, whatever. Back then it didn't seam like a big deal if 
the game kept giving you the same levels over and over again because that 
is what we all were use to.
Ok, now I am writing this side-scroller. I don't want to reuse the same 
levels over again so I have been trying to come up with 12 unique game 
levels. That's harder said than done since most side-scrollers start at 
the bottom lefthand corner and you must work your way to the righthand 
corner of the level. There are some exceptions to that rule, but let's not 
forget we are working with a 2d flat serfice which limits the number of 
rooms, secret areas, whatever we can add to that level.


Bryan Peterson wrote:
I'd say the same Sean. It doesn't sound as though leaving it as is and 
just finishing it that way if I read Thomas' message right. I like the 
more challenging game that MOTA has become, so if keeping that means we 
need to go FPS I'm all for it. One thing Side Scroller pushers aren't 
considering is that any one of our devs could, if they so chose, create 
the classic, true 80s style side scroller anytime. And since Thomas has 
spent three years and more on a project that wasn't really even his to 
begin with I feel he deserves some say in the matter. And since FPS style 
games are more to his taste I think that if enough people agree with him 
we should all live with the consequences. I for one don't want to see the 
classic side scroller if it means it'll go back to being static.



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Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

No kidding. Personally I think Thomas should continue with the game as is 
since he's so close to finishing it. But if I HAVE to choose I'd say convert 
it to an FPS. ANybody who writes our games could make the classic 89s side 
scroller at any time. So some people won't get the exact game they wanted. 
That's how life works sometimes. But ideally I'd love to see MOTA remain as 
is, a side scroller with some nonstandard elements. That's why I've come 
back with each new Beta.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS



I think you've all forgotten just what the original demo was like. It was
nothing--and I mean nothing--like the eighties-style game it was named 
for.

Just because the original Monte was released in the eighties doesn't mean
that's the direction James North was planning to take his game in.

Why do I feel like we're debating constitutional law and what our
forefathers really meant?

Ryan

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Peterson
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:51 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

I think the issue here Dark is that MOTA was initially Monte, which was
based off a classic 80s side scroller, which featured none of the
challenging elements MOTA has come to embrace.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of 
pizza?

Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:33 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS



Tom, I ask you one symple question.

Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 
1980's



arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door puzles, traps,
bosses etc with fps.

In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the point
scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.

Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later mario
offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games like Donkey
Kong country,  not to mention more modern continuations of those
series' on the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy which are entirely 
original.


All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex,
deeply interesting games a long way from the likes of the original
montizuma's revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, have
complex traps and mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a huge
variety of enemies,   both miner and major to fight.

In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I 
would



be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have to
automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?

What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been, 
developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a complex
2D game similar to those mentioned above.

this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would love
to see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable potential 
which



has been untapped.

Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you were
invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.

But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. While 
I'm


deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current direction, speaking 
as


a player I certainly am, and would very much like it to continue as it 
is,



and become the first complex 2D adventure in audio ever produced.

i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the fps
idea, I equally think something very valuable in Mota would be lost.

We already have some great first person titles,  why not explore
another avinue?

All the best,

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

I'd rather not. I actually paid for the game in '07 when Thomas thought he'd 
be releasing it a few weeks later. Let someone else do the simple side 
scroller as far as I'm concerned. Might sound calous I know but I'm not 
entirely sure I care. It's our own fault Thomas is in this pickle now so we 
should live with it, whatever he ultimately decides.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


well you could always make the simple scroler for those that asked for one 
I don't mind waiting another 4 years for my fps game.

At 12:54 p.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote:

Hi Peter and all,
I understand your problem/frustration with FPS style games. There are a 
lot of blind gamers that have no sense of direction when it comes to 
accessible FPS games. Though, there aren't that many truly accessible FPS 
games other than Sarah, Monkey Business, Shades of Doom, and a couple of 
others.
However, most of the features you and others like about Mysteries of the 
Ancients like random monsters, random items, the ability to save games, 
etc aren't side-scroller features. Those kinds of features were introduced 
when the FPS games like Doom, Quake, Jedi Knight, Tomb Raider, etc started 
coming out for the sighted market. Before that most games were simple 
arcade games.
So what I am  asking you and is others is not for Mysteries of the 
Ancients as it is now, but to be written as it was intended to be. That is 
designed like a 1980's style side-scroller without all of the modern 
influences, or to design it like a modern FPS game similar to Tomb Raider 
and other more modern games. I am not sure if you were one of the people 
who preordered the game or not, but it might be helpful to see things from 
my perspective for a moment.
When James North and I took preorders for Montezuma's Revenge it was with 
the understanding we would create and sell a classic side-scroller. Now, I 
have many people who want to hold me to that plan. However, there is this 
other group who demand modern features like the ability to save the game, 
randomize everything, include a targeting beep, whatever. As a result 
Mysteries of the Ancients is becoming more and more like an FPS game, and 
less and less like the game I actually sold to my original customers. So 
neither side is really getting what they wanted, and many of the customers 
feel they aren't getting what they paid for. So as a developer do i take 
out all the modern features, make it like the game I was going to sell, or 
do I just make something totally modern and different?
As you can see it is a very big problem. The stress from this game is 
beginning to drive me crazy, because I don't really know which side to 
listen to. It is not a simple decision for me.


peter Mahach wrote:

hi thomas,
here is my point of view.
I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly 
bump into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of 
side scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how 
it is now. I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... 
please, no! no wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is!



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Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Now that, my friend, isn't a half bad idea. The question is if he's still 
got the source code for that. If not then he can't very well do it. But it 
might just salve the feelings of those few who are dead set on having a 
bland, Atari style side scroller, not that there's a thing wrong with that.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion



Hi Tom.


Here's a rather crazy idea to salve the feelings of those who are 
desperate for an 80's game.


Go back to the last stable version of montizuma's return,  say beta 
9,  I stil have this on my harddrive,  which is possibly illegal, 
but deleting good games is against my principles.


The game already has 6, highly playable 80's side scroller levels.

Re-reccord the name of the game to something generic,  Temple 
adventures, treasure quest, --- Montizuma's avengence, do a quick search 
and replace on the instructions to change the name of panama Jo to 
something else,  peruvian Jim?


Then offer it as an extra freeby to those who buy Mota.

They then get all of Mota,  which I hope will continue as a modern 
side scroller, pluss 6 levels of pure classic 80's!


Just a suggestion.

all the best,

Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Speaking as someone else who bought the game in 2007, while I wanted a side 
scroller,  this was more because I wanted a side scroller than I wanted 
an 80's game. to me more complexity is just icing on the cake.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


I'd rather not. I actually paid for the game in '07 when Thomas thought 
he'd be releasing it a few weeks later. Let someone else do the simple 
side scroller as far as I'm concerned. Might sound calous I know but I'm 
not entirely sure I care. It's our own fault Thomas is in this pickle now 
so we should live with it, whatever he ultimately decides.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of 
pizza?

Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


well you could always make the simple scroler for those that asked for 
one I don't mind waiting another 4 years for my fps game.

At 12:54 p.m. 29/10/2009, you wrote:

Hi Peter and all,
I understand your problem/frustration with FPS style games. There are a 
lot of blind gamers that have no sense of direction when it comes to 
accessible FPS games. Though, there aren't that many truly accessible FPS 
games other than Sarah, Monkey Business, Shades of Doom, and a couple of 
others.
However, most of the features you and others like about Mysteries of the 
Ancients like random monsters, random items, the ability to save games, 
etc aren't side-scroller features. Those kinds of features were 
introduced when the FPS games like Doom, Quake, Jedi Knight, Tomb Raider, 
etc started coming out for the sighted market. Before that most games 
were simple arcade games.
So what I am  asking you and is others is not for Mysteries of the 
Ancients as it is now, but to be written as it was intended to be. That 
is designed like a 1980's style side-scroller without all of the modern 
influences, or to design it like a modern FPS game similar to Tomb Raider 
and other more modern games. I am not sure if you were one of the people 
who preordered the game or not, but it might be helpful to see things 
from my perspective for a moment.
When James North and I took preorders for Montezuma's Revenge it was with 
the understanding we would create and sell a classic side-scroller. Now, 
I have many people who want to hold me to that plan. However, there is 
this other group who demand modern features like the ability to save the 
game, randomize everything, include a targeting beep, whatever. As a 
result Mysteries of the Ancients is becoming more and more like an FPS 
game, and less and less like the game I actually sold to my original 
customers. So neither side is really getting what they wanted, and many 
of the customers feel they aren't getting what they paid for. So as a 
developer do i take out all the modern features, make it like the game I 
was going to sell, or do I just make something totally modern and 
different?
As you can see it is a very big problem. The stress from this game is 
beginning to drive me crazy, because I don't really know which side to 
listen to. It is not a simple decision for me.


peter Mahach wrote:

hi thomas,
here is my point of view.
I have enough of fps games. with little to no navigation skill I mostly 
bump into walls, walk in circles... and get frustrated. I'm a big fan of 
side scrollers as that's something I can play... and I enjoyed mota how 
it is now. I'd not want to see another stupid game that I'll suck at... 
please, no! no wall bumping, no compass... please leave it as it is!



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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi Milos,
The problem is that I took orders for Montezuma's Revenge in December of 
2007, and shortly afterwards I was ordered to stop developing and 
selling the game by the game's copyright holders. Since that is the law 
in the USA I had no choice but to comply with that court order, or I'd 
have to get a lawyer and fight it out in court. Since I wasn't about to 
fight it out in court I complied.
Now, I started work on Mysteries of the Ancients. In order to satisfy 
those customers who purchased the game I promised to deliver on a 
classic side-scroller, but that isn't what happened. I have dug myself 
into a hole by listening to people who want modern features So some 
people who purchased the game want their money back, because they aren't 
getting a classic side-scroller. Still others won't buy the game if I 
don't add some of these  features. So I'm pretty much damned if I do and 
damned if I don't. As a result I no longer want anything to do with this 
game, because there is no unified group of customers. I basically have 
two groups each asking for two different styles of games. The best I 
could do was is sort of merge the two types together and come up with 
something that is a little of both. Still even that doesn't make 
everyone happy. So I'm trying to figure out if there is a consensus one 
way or another.
Then, there is my own opinion and feelings to think about as well. 
Generally when I work on a personal project I like to create it the way 
I want to create it, but since I took orders for this game I feel I owe 
them the game they paid for. Yet since I can't give them Montezuma's 
Revenge exactly I've been trying to come up with a similar product with 
people nagging my heals that they don't want that kind of game. If it 
were totally up to me I'd do an FPS, but I have customers to listen to, 
and so I don't feel the decision is completely mine to make. So that's 
the problem.


HTH



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Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Not that there's a thing wrong with that? Then why use loaded words like
bland?

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Peterson
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 7:09 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Now that, my friend, isn't a half bad idea. The question is if he's still 
got the source code for that. If not then he can't very well do it. But it 
might just salve the feelings of those few who are dead set on having a 
bland, Atari style side scroller, not that there's a thing wrong with that.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org
To: Gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion


 Hi Tom.


 Here's a rather crazy idea to salve the feelings of those who are 
 desperate for an 80's game.

 Go back to the last stable version of montizuma's return,  say beta 
 9,  I stil have this on my harddrive,  which is possibly illegal, 
 but deleting good games is against my principles.

 The game already has 6, highly playable 80's side scroller levels.

 Re-reccord the name of the game to something generic,  Temple 
 adventures, treasure quest, --- Montizuma's avengence, do a quick search 
 and replace on the instructions to change the name of panama Jo to 
 something else,  peruvian Jim?

 Then offer it as an extra freeby to those who buy Mota.

 They then get all of Mota,  which I hope will continue as a modern 
 side scroller, pluss 6 levels of pure classic 80's!

 Just a suggestion.

 all the best,

 Dark.
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[Audyssey] FPS VS. Side Scrollers

2009-10-28 Thread Hayden Presley

Hi Thomas,

The way I see it, you would finish Mysteries of the ancients as it is, in
the style it is now following. I personally enjoy classic style Side
Scrollers so this one is definitely one I like. For the next game in the
Tomb Hunter series, you could make an FPS.

Hayden

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Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Well Bryan, I'd hope that this idea wouldn't take too much shinanigans with 
the source code, - only modding a couple of sounds where the game name 
is spoken.


I was actually going to suggest this later on when Tom had actually released 
the game and moved on to another project, - sinse I hate to see good 
gaming work lost, - but given what Tom said about a mob of rabid 80's 
side scroller fans, - it might help now.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion


Now that, my friend, isn't a half bad idea. The question is if he's still 
got the source code for that. If not then he can't very well do it. But it 
might just salve the feelings of those few who are dead set on having a 
bland, Atari style side scroller, not that there's a thing wrong with 
that.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of 
pizza?

Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion



Hi Tom.


Here's a rather crazy idea to salve the feelings of those who are 
desperate for an 80's game.


Go back to the last stable version of montizuma's return,  say beta 
9,  I stil have this on my harddrive,  which is possibly illegal, 
but deleting good games is against my principles.


The game already has 6, highly playable 80's side scroller levels.

Re-reccord the name of the game to something generic,  Temple 
adventures, treasure quest, --- Montizuma's avengence, do a quick search 
and replace on the instructions to change the name of panama Jo to 
something else,  peruvian Jim?


Then offer it as an extra freeby to those who buy Mota.

They then get all of Mota,  which I hope will continue as a modern 
side scroller, pluss 6 levels of pure classic 80's!


Just a suggestion.

all the best,

Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi,
Thanks, Bryan. That's almost exactly what happened. The outspoken group 
who wanted the classic side-scroller gave me considerable grief for 
exorsizing any kind of modern variation or modern style of game, and a 
few of them are still at it. The people who wanted a more modern game 
said so, but they got shouted down by some of the customers who wanted 
something like Monte. In the end I went with the side-scroller,  but 
many people began coming forward that they want this or that. Features 
that are relatively modern, and were not present in the 1980's. Weather 
any of them knew it or not I got stuck right in the middle of these two 
groups, and I still don't know which is the larger group.


Bryan Peterson wrote:
I think the issue here is that when most people who paid for the game 
did so, they were expecting to get a classic side scroller, no random 
monsters or items, no saving games, no nothing really, since classic 
side scrollers didn't feature all that. Thomas posed approximately 
this same question in January of 2008 and let's just say the response 
wasn't pretty. People kept demanding exactly what they paid for and 
criticizing Thomas for trying to exercise his own creativity to keep 
from burning out on the project, so much in fact that Thomas seemed on 
the verge of cobbling together James North's original code or as close 
to it as possible, releasing it and then ceasing development 
altogether. But he felt he had to give people something, even if it 
wasn't exactly what they were promised. I could of course be totally 
wrong about all this but this is my interpretation from all that I've 
observed.



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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

2009-10-28 Thread matheus

thomas,
you're never going to make everyone happy with a game, and you are not
forced to add a feature just bekause someone requested it. the game is
really awesome now man, but you know what to do,you're the developer, so
you decide
if i were you, i whould continue with the game how it is, create the
other levels, and finish the product. if you're allays going to listen
to all the user comments, you'll never get a game finished bekause one
way or another.


-Mensagem original-
De: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
Para: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Data: Quarta, 28 de Outubro de 2009 20:10
Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Hi Milos,
The problem is that I took orders for Montezuma's Revenge in December of
2007, and shortly afterwards I was ordered to stop developing and
selling the game by the game's copyright holders. Since that is the law
in the USA I had no choice but to comply with that court order, or I'd
have to get a lawyer and fight it out in court. Since I wasn't about to
fight it out in court I complied.
Now, I started work on Mysteries of the Ancients. In order to satisfy
those customers who purchased the game I promised to deliver on a
classic side-scroller, but that isn't what happened. I have dug myself
into a hole by listening to people who want modern features So some
people who purchased the game want their money back, because they aren't
getting a classic side-scroller. Still others won't buy the game if I
don't add some of these  features. So I'm pretty much damned if I do and
damned if I don't. As a result I no longer want anything to do with this
game, because there is no unified group of customers. I basically have
two groups each asking for two different styles of games. The best I
could do was is sort of merge the two types together and come up with
something that is a little of both. Still even that doesn't make
everyone happy. So I'm trying to figure out if there is a consensus one
way or another.
Then, there is my own opinion and feelings to think about as well.
Generally when I work on a personal project I like to create it the way
I want to create it, but since I took orders for this game I feel I owe
them the game they paid for. Yet since I can't give them Montezuma's
Revenge exactly I've been trying to come up with a similar product with
people nagging my heals that they don't want that kind of game. If it
were totally up to me I'd do an FPS, but I have customers to listen to,
and so I don't feel the decision is completely mine to make. So that's
the problem.

HTH



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Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Well compared to today's games it would be. I'm not saying I don't enjoy 
those types of games every now and then but they do become bland after a 
while.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Not that there's a thing wrong with that? Then why use loaded words like
bland?

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Peterson
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 7:09 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Now that, my friend, isn't a half bad idea. The question is if he's still
got the source code for that. If not then he can't very well do it. But it
might just salve the feelings of those few who are dead set on having a
bland, Atari style side scroller, not that there's a thing wrong with 
that.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of 
pizza?

Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Hi Tom.

Here's a rather crazy idea to salve the feelings of those who are
desperate for an 80's game.

Go back to the last stable version of montizuma's return,  say beta
9,  I stil have this on my harddrive,  which is possibly illegal,
but deleting good games is against my principles.

The game already has 6, highly playable 80's side scroller levels.

Re-reccord the name of the game to something generic,  Temple
adventures, treasure quest, --- Montizuma's avengence, do a quick search
and replace on the instructions to change the name of panama Jo to
something else,  peruvian Jim?

Then offer it as an extra freeby to those who buy Mota.

They then get all of Mota,  which I hope will continue as a modern
side scroller, pluss 6 levels of pure classic 80's!

Just a suggestion.

all the best,

Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] FPS VS. Side Scrollers

That's what he was intending to do. The problem, as he's stated before, is 
that a fair number of people are angry that MOTA is turning out not to be 
the classic side scroller that they paid for.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:14 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] FPS VS. Side Scrollers

Hi Thomas,

The way I see it, you would finish Mysteries of the ancients as it is, in
the style it is now following. I personally enjoy classic style Side
Scrollers so this one is definitely one I like. For the next game in the
Tomb Hunter series, you could make an FPS.

Hayden

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Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

But the question still remains whether or not Thomas even has that old 
source code. If he doesn't then he couldn't do it even if he was willing to 
go that route, which of course we don't know yet.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Well Bryan, I'd hope that this idea wouldn't take too much shinanigans 
with the source code, - only modding a couple of sounds where the game 
name is spoken.

I was actually going to suggest this later on when Tom had actually 
released the game and moved on to another project, - sinse I hate to 
see good gaming work lost, - but given what Tom said about a mob of 
rabid 80's side scroller fans, - it might help now.

Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Now that, my friend, isn't a half bad idea. The question is if he's still 
got the source code for that. If not then he can't very well do it. But 
it might just salve the feelings of those few who are dead set on having 
a bland, Atari style side scroller, not that there's a thing wrong with 
that.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of 
pizza?

Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Hi Tom.

Here's a rather crazy idea to salve the feelings of those who are 
desperate for an 80's game.

Go back to the last stable version of montizuma's return,  say beta 
9,  I stil have this on my harddrive,  which is possibly 
illegal, but deleting good games is against my principles.

The game already has 6, highly playable 80's side scroller levels.

Re-reccord the name of the game to something generic,  Temple 
adventures, treasure quest, --- Montizuma's avengence, do a quick search 
and replace on the instructions to change the name of panama Jo to 
something else,  peruvian Jim?

Then offer it as an extra freeby to those who buy Mota.

They then get all of Mota,  which I hope will continue as a modern 
side scroller, pluss 6 levels of pure classic 80's!

Just a suggestion.

all the best,

Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Well, the sounds don't appear to be incripted,  so at least 
theoretically it should be no harder than creating a mod even if Tom has not 
got the source code.


As you said though, there's no knowing whether he'll go this route or not so 
speculation about whether it is or is not possible isn't such a crytical 
thing to considder at this stage.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion


But the question still remains whether or not Thomas even has that old 
source code. If he doesn't then he couldn't do it even if he was willing 
to go that route, which of course we don't know yet.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of 
pizza?

Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion


Well Bryan, I'd hope that this idea wouldn't take too much shinanigans 
with the source code, - only modding a couple of sounds where the 
game name is spoken.


I was actually going to suggest this later on when Tom had actually 
released the game and moved on to another project, - sinse I hate to 
see good gaming work lost, - but given what Tom said about a mob of 
rabid 80's side scroller fans, - it might help now.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion


Now that, my friend, isn't a half bad idea. The question is if he's 
still got the source code for that. If not then he can't very well do 
it. But it might just salve the feelings of those few who are dead set 
on having a bland, Atari style side scroller, not that there's a thing 
wrong with that.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of 
pizza?

Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion



Hi Tom.


Here's a rather crazy idea to salve the feelings of those who are 
desperate for an 80's game.


Go back to the last stable version of montizuma's return,  say beta 
9,  I stil have this on my harddrive,  which is possibly 
illegal, but deleting good games is against my principles.


The game already has 6, highly playable 80's side scroller levels.

Re-reccord the name of the game to something generic,  Temple 
adventures, treasure quest, --- Montizuma's avengence, do a quick 
search and replace on the instructions to change the name of panama Jo 
to something else,  peruvian Jim?


Then offer it as an extra freeby to those who buy Mota.

They then get all of Mota,  which I hope will continue as a modern 
side scroller, pluss 6 levels of pure classic 80's!


Just a suggestion.

all the best,

Dark.
---
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Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

I think it's a workable solution. Thomas is never going to please everybody 
and I think he has the sense enough to realize that. But it MIGHT go 
somewhat towards salving the feelings of some of the more rabid folks out 
there.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion


Well, the sounds don't appear to be incripted,  so at least 
theoretically it should be no harder than creating a mod even if Tom has 
not got the source code.


As you said though, there's no knowing whether he'll go this route or not 
so speculation about whether it is or is not possible isn't such a 
crytical thing to considder at this stage.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion


But the question still remains whether or not Thomas even has that old 
source code. If he doesn't then he couldn't do it even if he was willing 
to go that route, which of course we don't know yet.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of 
pizza?

Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion


Well Bryan, I'd hope that this idea wouldn't take too much shinanigans 
with the source code, - only modding a couple of sounds where the 
game name is spoken.


I was actually going to suggest this later on when Tom had actually 
released the game and moved on to another project, - sinse I hate to 
see good gaming work lost, - but given what Tom said about a mob of 
rabid 80's side scroller fans, - it might help now.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion


Now that, my friend, isn't a half bad idea. The question is if he's 
still got the source code for that. If not then he can't very well do 
it. But it might just salve the feelings of those few who are dead set 
on having a bland, Atari style side scroller, not that there's a thing 
wrong with that.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of 
pizza?

Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion



Hi Tom.


Here's a rather crazy idea to salve the feelings of those who are 
desperate for an 80's game.


Go back to the last stable version of montizuma's return,  say 
beta 9,  I stil have this on my harddrive,  which is possibly 
illegal, but deleting good games is against my principles.


The game already has 6, highly playable 80's side scroller levels.

Re-reccord the name of the game to something generic,  Temple 
adventures, treasure quest, --- Montizuma's avengence, do a quick 
search and replace on the instructions to change the name of panama Jo 
to something else,  peruvian Jim?


Then offer it as an extra freeby to those who buy Mota.

They then get all of Mota,  which I hope will continue as a modern 
side scroller, pluss 6 levels of pure classic 80's!


Just a suggestion.

all the best,

Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] FPS VS. Side Scrollers

2009-10-28 Thread Hayden Presley

Yeah, and I definitely see what I mean; I like most of the features that he
was adding but some of the later ones I think are slightly...strange for a
Side Scroller. That said, I like the idea for a complex 2D game, which is
definitely something I haven't seen yet; I mean, I like games such as Shades
of Doom but I end up running in circles and getting very frustrated. That's
the only problem I have about FPs style game, but otherwise...
Hayden

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Bryan Peterson
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 7:23 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] FPS VS. Side Scrollers

That's what he was intending to do. The problem, as he's stated before, is 
that a fair number of people are angry that MOTA is turning out not to be 
the classic side scroller that they paid for.
Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com
To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:14 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] FPS VS. Side Scrollers


 Hi Thomas,

 The way I see it, you would finish Mysteries of the ancients as it is, in
 the style it is now following. I personally enjoy classic style Side
 Scrollers so this one is definitely one I like. For the next game in the
 Tomb Hunter series, you could make an FPS.

 Hayden

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Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi Dark,
Yeah, i do know most of the side-scrollers you mentioned did evolve, add 
save game features, random enemies, random items, etc. You might say 
that it was inevitable to keep some of those game series going. I don't 
necessarily have a problem with those features.
It has more to do with the fact I've been put directly between the rock 
and the hard place. You got a few people on one side that are still 
complaining they didn't get the game they wantd or ordered. You have 
people on the other side who would rather I make an FPS game instead. 
Then, there are a lot like you who are asking me to keep the game 
exactly as it is. So as a developer I need to know where everybody 
stands on this issue so i can just create the game and get it done.
As for me personally I'm not a fan of going back to a classic 
side-scroller at all. there are too many good features that would be 
lost by doing so. I'd certainly prefer an FPS game myself, but I could 
live with creating the game as it is provided I'm not getting zillions 
of requests wanting this, that, and the other thing too. I just want to 
get it done and over with.



dark wrote:

Tom, I ask you one symple question.

Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 
1980's arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door 
puzles, traps, bosses etc with fps.


In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the 
point scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.


Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later 
mario offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games like 
Donkey Kong country,  not to mention more modern continuations of 
those series' on the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy which are entirely 
original.


All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex, 
deeply interesting games a long way from the likes of the original 
montizuma's revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, have 
complex traps and mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a huge 
variety of enemies,   both miner and major to fight.


In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I 
would be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have 
to automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?


What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been,   
developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a 
complex 2D game similar to those mentioned above.


this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would 
love to see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable 
potential which has been untapped.


Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you were 
invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.


But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. While 
I'm deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current direction, 
speaking as a player I certainly am, and would very much like it to 
continue as it is, and become the first complex 2D adventure in audio 
ever produced.


i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the 
fps idea, I equally think something very valuable in Mota would be lost.


We already have some great first person titles,  why not explore 
another avinue?


All the best,

Dark.



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Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hello Tom.

Well in that case, I'd personally very much agree with what Matheus said 
earlier.


Add in the extra levels, and produce the game as a complex side scroller.

With the genesis engine the possibility always exists of creating an fps 
game at some point in the future when you wish to,  on the other hand, 
your probably not going to want to touch side scrollers with a barge pole 
after this is done!



For those who want an 80's game, --- well this way at least they get a side 
scroller, allbeit a 90's one instead of an 80's one,  also you could 
considder re-branding the last sable six level long beta of montizuma's 
return with a new name and giving it out to people who buy Mota.


that way people are getting a full scale 90's side scroller, and six levels 
of an 80's one,  which to my mind is a pretty good deal!


Beware the grue!

Dark. 



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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

2009-10-28 Thread Scott Chesworth

Hey Tom,

The only way I can relate to your situation is to compare it to music,
seeing as games are the thing you create and music is the thing I
slave away for.  I know all too well how it feels to have to wrap up a
project that's turning out far different than you expected because of
financial and sanity deadlines, not good.  I also know what it feels
like to have that slightly mixed up type product out there on sale
that you're not happy with.

I wasn't on the list or even playing accessible games much to see the
drama unfold the last time this question was posed, and I also don't
know enough about your financial situation to know whether this is
viable, but the part where you said you'd grown to resent the game
made me think dude, turn this back into a game you're a fan of as a
developer and a player. If it's truely fun to play, for every person
who whinges that they want their money back someone else will surely
try it like it and buy it.  Of course, I don't know whether refunds
for the few who're too stubborn to embrace a good product are
financially viable for you.

As someone who's now feeling a tad guilty for harping on about realism
and the like, I don't actually think I can vote, because I don't think
this is our decision.  Even if you convert this into an FPS, there
will still be the whingers who say it's too hard now, the winers who
think it's too easy, blah blah blah.  I can tell you that so long as
the final product is satisfying to play in some way, I'll buy it,
regardless of whether it's a side-scroller or an FPS, because I'm in
the fortunate position of being able to get my head round both methods
of navigation, and that's as deep as the divide goes in my mind, it's
just a method of navigation.

In all honesty, I think the best thing you can do right now is read
what Dark is saying, take a step back from fixing hand to hand stuff
and sleep on it for a day or two.  The chap seriously has a point when
he says that no other game exists with this old-school simple method
of navigation, this amount of replay value, combined with these modern
killer sounds and music.  If you can take enough of a step back,
hopefully you'll see that you have a unique and easily accessible
product that in one way or another will appeal to many gamers across
the board, and if games are anything like music then mass-appeal will
sell no matter the genre.  MOTA in it's current form would be the
go-too game for those who are new to accessible gaming, those who've
just lost their usable vision, those who want a quick blast of a game
to play on the train that doesn't rely on intensive accurate listening
as much as most FPS's would, all this is because of the side-scroller
navigation.  Similarly, the expert mode is ridiculously hard enough to
grip the hardcore gamers for at least one full run through, the
quality of sound and music won't disappoint that group, and sooner or
later most of those newbies from the previous sentence will get to the
point where they're playing on expert which gives the game a new lease
of life for them.

My point, though rather long, is that in it's current form it's a very
cool and original product.  Surely, that's something that you can be
proud of as a developer, something you can remember how to enjoy as a
player, and something that you won't have a problem selling.  If Dark
and myself and whoever else has jumped onboard with this train of
thought while I've been typing this can get that across to you and you
can actually manage to see the merits of MOTA in it's current form and
put the frustrations of user feedback aside, then that'd be a better
outcome than any vote.

Youzer, bit longer than I intended...
Scott

On 10/29/09, matheus an...@bol.com.br wrote:
 thomas,
 you're never going to make everyone happy with a game, and you are not
 forced to add a feature just bekause someone requested it. the game is
 really awesome now man, but you know what to do,you're the developer, so
 you decide
 if i were you, i whould continue with the game how it is, create the
 other levels, and finish the product. if you're allays going to listen
 to all the user comments, you'll never get a game finished bekause one
 way or another.


 -Mensagem original-
 De: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
 Para: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Data: Quarta, 28 de Outubro de 2009 20:10
 Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

 Hi Milos,
 The problem is that I took orders for Montezuma's Revenge in December of
 2007, and shortly afterwards I was ordered to stop developing and
 selling the game by the game's copyright holders. Since that is the law
 in the USA I had no choice but to comply with that court order, or I'd
 have to get a lawyer and fight it out in court. Since I wasn't about to
 fight it out in court I complied.
 Now, I started work on Mysteries of the Ancients. In order to satisfy
 those customers who purchased the game I promised to deliver on a
 classic

Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi Yohandy,
I really wish it could be that simple. Unfortunately, a game developer 
seases to have a private life after he announces he is writing a game. 
Sooner or later someone will begin e-mailing him on a regular basis 
asking how the game is coming along, what features has he added, when is 
the next beta going to be released, can he add this or that feature, you 
name it. There is no escaping the constant e-mail from his customers 
unless he drops off line for a few months.
In the end it was exactly this constant unwanted mail that caused James 
North to just give up and quit. Some people wanted to know what was 
going on, some people demanded he produce a demo when they wanted it, 
some people wanted their money back, and so on. At the same time he was 
dealing with some personal matters, and no one left him alone to deal 
with his personal life let alone finish the games as he had time. Now, I 
find myself in a similar situation where I don't have much of a personal 
life, because I am doing this and that for the game with a constant flow 
of e-mails that never quit. No matter what I add to the game, no matter 
what I do, there is someone else with a new suggestion, likes or 
dislikes what I did, and I am totally fed up with the entire project. 
However, unlike james North I'm not going to just quit.
Eventually, I may have to take your advice and just write the game my 
way and tell everyone to live with it. Since I'm a nice guy, I try to 
listen to my customers, i would hate to do it that way. Yet if I can't 
find some sort of consensus I'll do it my way and forget about it. 
Although, the consensus seams to be keep MOTA exactly as is. I'm not 
sure how i feel about that, but it does make sense.


Yohandy wrote:
and again, you guys fail to understand that Thomas is sick and tired 
of the game. I think he stated this quite clearly in his message. 
There's nothing wrong in MOTA continuing the way it's going, but 
there's something wrong with us all if we force Thomas to work on a 
game he started hating long ago for obvious reasons. Thomas, I suggest 
you do this and this is only my opinion. Make the game you wish to 
make, and don't update us on anything. do not post any betas to the 
list, or any progress reports. whenever the game's ready, then release 
it to the public.



- Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:33 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS



Tom, I ask you one symple question.

Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 
1980's arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door 
puzles, traps, bosses etc with fps.


In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the 
point scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.


Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later 
mario offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games 
like Donkey Kong country,  not to mention more modern 
continuations of those series' on the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy 
which are entirely original.


All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex, 
deeply interesting games a long way from the likes of the original 
montizuma's revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, 
have complex traps and mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a 
huge variety of enemies,   both miner and major to fight.


In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I 
would be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have 
to automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?


What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been,   
developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a 
complex 2D game similar to those mentioned above.


this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would 
love to see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable 
potential which has been untapped.


Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you 
were invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.


But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. 
While I'm deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current 
direction, speaking as a player I certainly am, and would very much 
like it to continue as it is, and become the first complex 2D 
adventure in audio ever produced.


i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the 
fps idea, I equally think something very valuable in Mota would be lost.


We already have some great first person titles,  why not explore 
another avinue?


All the best,

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi Shaun,
Oh, that would be a hoot. I don't think the people asking for a 
side-scroller want to go to that extreme, but it would definitely be a 
blast from the past.


shaun everiss wrote:

hear is a semi wacky idea, have fps but have an optional sound pack to make it 
sound like one of those 80s arcade machines.
  



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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

2009-10-28 Thread Hayden Presley

Simply put...amen.

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Chesworth
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 8:08 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Hey Tom,

The only way I can relate to your situation is to compare it to music,
seeing as games are the thing you create and music is the thing I
slave away for.  I know all too well how it feels to have to wrap up a
project that's turning out far different than you expected because of
financial and sanity deadlines, not good.  I also know what it feels
like to have that slightly mixed up type product out there on sale
that you're not happy with.

I wasn't on the list or even playing accessible games much to see the
drama unfold the last time this question was posed, and I also don't
know enough about your financial situation to know whether this is
viable, but the part where you said you'd grown to resent the game
made me think dude, turn this back into a game you're a fan of as a
developer and a player. If it's truely fun to play, for every person
who whinges that they want their money back someone else will surely
try it like it and buy it.  Of course, I don't know whether refunds
for the few who're too stubborn to embrace a good product are
financially viable for you.

As someone who's now feeling a tad guilty for harping on about realism
and the like, I don't actually think I can vote, because I don't think
this is our decision.  Even if you convert this into an FPS, there
will still be the whingers who say it's too hard now, the winers who
think it's too easy, blah blah blah.  I can tell you that so long as
the final product is satisfying to play in some way, I'll buy it,
regardless of whether it's a side-scroller or an FPS, because I'm in
the fortunate position of being able to get my head round both methods
of navigation, and that's as deep as the divide goes in my mind, it's
just a method of navigation.

In all honesty, I think the best thing you can do right now is read
what Dark is saying, take a step back from fixing hand to hand stuff
and sleep on it for a day or two.  The chap seriously has a point when
he says that no other game exists with this old-school simple method
of navigation, this amount of replay value, combined with these modern
killer sounds and music.  If you can take enough of a step back,
hopefully you'll see that you have a unique and easily accessible
product that in one way or another will appeal to many gamers across
the board, and if games are anything like music then mass-appeal will
sell no matter the genre.  MOTA in it's current form would be the
go-too game for those who are new to accessible gaming, those who've
just lost their usable vision, those who want a quick blast of a game
to play on the train that doesn't rely on intensive accurate listening
as much as most FPS's would, all this is because of the side-scroller
navigation.  Similarly, the expert mode is ridiculously hard enough to
grip the hardcore gamers for at least one full run through, the
quality of sound and music won't disappoint that group, and sooner or
later most of those newbies from the previous sentence will get to the
point where they're playing on expert which gives the game a new lease
of life for them.

My point, though rather long, is that in it's current form it's a very
cool and original product.  Surely, that's something that you can be
proud of as a developer, something you can remember how to enjoy as a
player, and something that you won't have a problem selling.  If Dark
and myself and whoever else has jumped onboard with this train of
thought while I've been typing this can get that across to you and you
can actually manage to see the merits of MOTA in it's current form and
put the frustrations of user feedback aside, then that'd be a better
outcome than any vote.

Youzer, bit longer than I intended...
Scott

On 10/29/09, matheus an...@bol.com.br wrote:
 thomas,
 you're never going to make everyone happy with a game, and you are not
 forced to add a feature just bekause someone requested it. the game is
 really awesome now man, but you know what to do,you're the developer, so
 you decide
 if i were you, i whould continue with the game how it is, create the
 other levels, and finish the product. if you're allays going to listen
 to all the user comments, you'll never get a game finished bekause one
 way or another.

 -Mensagem original-
 De: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
 Para: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Data: Quarta, 28 de Outubro de 2009 20:10
 Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

 Hi Milos,
 The problem is that I took orders for Montezuma's Revenge in December of
 2007, and shortly afterwards I was ordered to stop developing and
 selling the game by the game's copyright holders. Since that is the law
 in the USA I had no choice but to comply with that court order, or I'd

Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Yeah no. James North had issues way worse than the community hounding him.

-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:10 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Hi Yohandy,
I really wish it could be that simple. Unfortunately, a game developer 
seases to have a private life after he announces he is writing a game. 
Sooner or later someone will begin e-mailing him on a regular basis 
asking how the game is coming along, what features has he added, when is 
the next beta going to be released, can he add this or that feature, you 
name it. There is no escaping the constant e-mail from his customers 
unless he drops off line for a few months.
In the end it was exactly this constant unwanted mail that caused James 
North to just give up and quit. Some people wanted to know what was 
going on, some people demanded he produce a demo when they wanted it, 
some people wanted their money back, and so on. At the same time he was 
dealing with some personal matters, and no one left him alone to deal 
with his personal life let alone finish the games as he had time. Now, I 
find myself in a similar situation where I don't have much of a personal 
life, because I am doing this and that for the game with a constant flow 
of e-mails that never quit. No matter what I add to the game, no matter 
what I do, there is someone else with a new suggestion, likes or 
dislikes what I did, and I am totally fed up with the entire project. 
However, unlike james North I'm not going to just quit.
Eventually, I may have to take your advice and just write the game my 
way and tell everyone to live with it. Since I'm a nice guy, I try to 
listen to my customers, i would hate to do it that way. Yet if I can't 
find some sort of consensus I'll do it my way and forget about it. 
Although, the consensus seams to be keep MOTA exactly as is. I'm not 
sure how i feel about that, but it does make sense.

Yohandy wrote:
 and again, you guys fail to understand that Thomas is sick and tired 
 of the game. I think he stated this quite clearly in his message. 
 There's nothing wrong in MOTA continuing the way it's going, but 
 there's something wrong with us all if we force Thomas to work on a 
 game he started hating long ago for obvious reasons. Thomas, I suggest 
 you do this and this is only my opinion. Make the game you wish to 
 make, and don't update us on anything. do not post any betas to the 
 list, or any progress reports. whenever the game's ready, then release 
 it to the public.

 - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 6:33 PM
 Subject: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

 Tom, I ask you one symple question.

 Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 
 1980's arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door 
 puzles, traps, bosses etc with fps.

 In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the 
 point scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.

 Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later 
 mario offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games 
 like Donkey Kong country,  not to mention more modern 
 continuations of those series' on the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy 
 which are entirely original.

 All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex, 
 deeply interesting games a long way from the likes of the original 
 montizuma's revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, 
 have complex traps and mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a 
 huge variety of enemies,   both miner and major to fight.

 In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I 
 would be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have 
 to automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?

 What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been,   
 developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a 
 complex 2D game similar to those mentioned above.

 this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would 
 love to see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable 
 potential which has been untapped.

 Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you 
 were invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.

 But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. 
 While I'm deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current 
 direction, speaking as a player I certainly am, and would very much 
 like it to continue as it is, and become the first complex 2D 
 adventure in audio ever produced.

 i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the 
 fps idea, I equally think something very valuable

Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Hi Dark,
I may have the source code for Montezuma's Revenge around here, but I
can't tell you what version of the source I have. I can say that beta 9
was full of miner bugs, and obviously I wouldn't be updating the game to
fix those bugs. So even if I rereleased that game it would be with the
understanding that it is a test release and not a stable version.
Personally, I think a better suggestion is to create an all new open
source project that is like Montezuma's Revenge but with a different
name. That way I could put it on my developers center as an open source
example of a simple accessible game while at the same time satisfying
those who want a completely classic side-scroller.

dark wrote:
Hi Tom.

Here's a rather crazy idea to salve the feelings of those who are desperate for an 80's game.

Go back to the last stable version of montizuma's return, say beta 9,
I stil have this on my harddrive, which is possibly illegal, but deleting
good games is against my principles.

The game already has 6, highly playable 80's side scroller levels.

Re-reccord the name of the game to something generic, Temple adventures, treasure quest, --- Montizuma's avengence, do a quick search and replace on the instructions to change the name of panama Jo to something else, peruvian Jim?

Then offer it as an extra freeby to those who buy Mota.

They then get all of Mota, which I hope will continue as a modern side scroller, pluss 6 levels of pure classic 80's!

Just a suggestion.

all the best,

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Well if you want my opinion I'd say keep the game going as is if that's at 
all possible.

Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza?
Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash.
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS

Hi Dark,
Yeah, i do know most of the side-scrollers you mentioned did evolve, add 
save game features, random enemies, random items, etc. You might say that 
it was inevitable to keep some of those game series going. I don't 
necessarily have a problem with those features.
It has more to do with the fact I've been put directly between the rock 
and the hard place. You got a few people on one side that are still 
complaining they didn't get the game they wantd or ordered. You have 
people on the other side who would rather I make an FPS game instead. 
Then, there are a lot like you who are asking me to keep the game exactly 
as it is. So as a developer I need to know where everybody stands on this 
issue so i can just create the game and get it done.
As for me personally I'm not a fan of going back to a classic 
side-scroller at all. there are too many good features that would be lost 
by doing so. I'd certainly prefer an FPS game myself, but I could live 
with creating the game as it is provided I'm not getting zillions of 
requests wanting this, that, and the other thing too. I just want to get 
it done and over with.

dark wrote:

Tom, I ask you one symple question.

Why is it you associate the side scrolling 2D perspective only with 
1980's arcade style gameplay, and features such as key and door puzles, 
traps, bosses etc with fps.

In the 90's, the side scrolling genre matured and changed from the point 
scoring fests they were, into something else entirely.

Games like the Mega man, Metroid and castlevania series, the later mario 
offerings on the Snes such as super Marrio world, and games like Donkey 
Kong country,  not to mention more modern continuations of those 
series' on the Gba, pluss games like Astroboy which are entirely 
original.

All are side scrollers. This in no way stops them from being complex, 
deeply interesting games a long way from the likes of the original 
montizuma's revenge. Many do not feature a scoring system at all, have 
complex traps and mazes for the player, puzles to solve, and a huge 
variety of enemies,   both miner and major to fight.

In audio, we already have many 80's rack up score style games, and I 
would be against having another. Why however, does this mean we have to 
automatically make the game a 3D fps affair?

What is wrong with Mota continuing along the lines it has been,   
developing into an audio evolution of the side scrolling genre, a complex 
2D game similar to those mentioned above.

this is a genre I've had hours of fun with over the years, and would love 
to see translate into audio, as audio 2D has considderable potential 
which has been untapped.

Perhaps it is not the 80's side scroller or complete fps game you were 
invisioning,  just like the series mentioned above, it evolved.

But this is not to my mind a bad thing,  quite the opposite. While 
I'm deeply sorry you aren't a fan of the game's current direction, 
speaking as a player I certainly am, and would very much like it to 
continue as it is, and become the first complex 2D adventure in audio 
ever produced.

i feel quite strongly on this matter! while i wouldn't be against the fps 
idea, I equally think something very valuable in Mota would be lost.

We already have some great first person titles,  why not explore 
another avinue?

All the best,

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion


Hi,
Oh, I wouldn't call them a mob. Just a small handful of, well, people 
with a difference of opinion shall we say. Most people thus far seam to 
be happy with the way MOTA is going, and a few want an FPS game. So far 
those who want a strictly classic side-scroller are in the minority by 
and large.


dark wrote:
Well Bryan, I'd hope that this idea wouldn't take too much shinanigans 
with the source code, - only modding a couple of sounds where the 
game name is spoken.


I was actually going to suggest this later on when Tom had actually 
released the game and moved on to another project, - sinse I hate 
to see good gaming work lost, - but given what Tom said about a 
mob of rabid 80's side scroller fans, - it might help now.


Beware the grue!

Dark.



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Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

2009-10-28 Thread Michael Feir

Sounds like a good idea. However, I would think that at this stage, it would 
probably be better if you kept the game as is and ultimately finished with 
it. While I would appreciate the opensource sidescroler in addition to MOTA, 
that smacks of yet more work for Tom when he's clearly at the end of his 
rope. I can't say that I'd be very satisfied at all if you ended up making 
MoTA into an FPS. I think that a sidescroller like you're making now has a 
lot to offer the community. It certainly would be a game that I would 
treasure. You're in a rather nasty predicament at the moment and I've always 
empathised with you. I very much want a sidescroller to emerge from all 
this. Just because a style of game has been around for a while doesn't make 
it bad. Chess is still a very popular game and it has survived for 
centuries. Are Chess players idiots and throwbacks since they aren't playing 
more modern games? I don't think so. A good game mechanic remains good 
despite the passage of time.


Although I would be happier with a game which more closely resembled an 80's 
sidescroller, Tom has largely won me over with what he has added to the 
game. It still retains that classic vintage feel but offers a good deal of 
replay value. I beilive he has found an excellent compromise between the two 
factions here and will ultimately find that the game sells splendidly when 
he's finally finished it. Having said that, I would rather have Tom keep 
developing games than force the issue at all. Having this project cost the 
community two star developers really isn't an outcome I'd care for at all. 
I'm definitely in the crowd that want Tom to keep things in the direction he 
found for the game. However, I won't be asking for a refund should he come 
to a different decision. Nore does he have to fear that I'll pepper him with 
suggestions. I've refraned from that and will keep doing so. Poor Tom has 
been buffetted quite enough as it is. His efforts to get to this point have 
already more than earned my respect and admiration. All that remains to do 
at this point is wish Tom the very best of luck.

Michael Feir
Author of Personal Power:
How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People
2006-2008
www.blind-planet.com/content/personal-power

A Life of Word and Sound
2003-2007
http://www.blind-planet.com/content/life-word-and-sound

Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine
1996-2004
Check out my blog at:
www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com


- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion



Hi Dark,
I may have the source code for Montezuma's Revenge around here, but I 
can't tell you what version of the source I have. I can say that beta 9 
was full of miner bugs, and obviously I wouldn't be updating the game to 
fix those bugs. So even if I rereleased that game it would be with the 
understanding that it is a test release and not a stable version.
Personally, I think a better suggestion is to create an all new open 
source project that is like Montezuma's Revenge but with a different name. 
That way I could put it on my developers center as an open source example 
of a simple accessible game while at the same time satisfying those who 
want a completely classic side-scroller.


dark wrote:

Hi Tom.

Here's a rather crazy idea to salve the feelings of those who are 
desperate for an 80's game.
Go back to the last stable version of montizuma's return,  say beta 
9,  I stil have this on my harddrive,  which is possibly illegal, 
but deleting good games is against my principles.


The game already has 6, highly playable 80's side scroller levels.
Re-reccord the name of the game to something generic,  Temple 
adventures, treasure quest, --- Montizuma's avengence, do a quick search 
and replace on the instructions to change the name of panama Jo to 
something else,  peruvian Jim?

Then offer it as an extra freeby to those who buy Mota.

They then get all of Mota,  which I hope will continue as a modern 
side scroller, pluss 6 levels of pure classic 80's!

Just a suggestion.
all the best,
Dark.




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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi,

Scott said:
Of course, I don't know whether refunds
for the few who're too stubborn to embrace a good product are
financially viable for you.

My responce:
It really is not a viable option for me. My wife and I are on a very 
tight budget right now, and to add to that we do plan to go on vacation 
this winter. So every penny we can save towards that end will be 
helpful. Refunding a handful of people their money isn't something I 
really want to do, nor could I do it if I wanted to.


Scot said:
As someone who's now feeling a tad guilty for harping on about realism
and the like, I don't actually think I can vote, because I don't think
this is our decision.

My response:
As it happens I am a huge fan of realism myself so I am certainly not 
blaming you for suggesting something that is of special interest to me 
personally. So there is no need to feel guilty for that. I do like 
realism and it never hurts to have it pointed out where that area can be 
improved.
truthfully I'm on the side of an FPS game for that reason. The 2d level 
layout is a bit unrealistic, and I'd be in favor of 3d movement rather 
than only being able to move left, right, up, and down. It is a bit 
annoying to know the engine does have built in realistic 3d movement, 
but only being able to create this particular game with 2d movement only.
For me it is kind of like owning an extremely fast sports car, but only 
being allowed to drive it in first gear. You lose out on the thrill of 
putting the hammer down and driving it at top speed. Sure some people 
would enjoy driving that car at any speed, but for the guy who owns it 
he at least wants to see what that car can really do. You know what I mean?
In terms of gaming I've invested a lot of time and energy developing the 
Genesis Engine. there is a lot of features in this engine, but like the 
sports car I'm not really able to put them to use. Oh, it has created an 
exceptionally decent side-scroller, no doubt about that, but I know it 
could do better. Especially, if I could design more complex levels with 
all of the engines features instead of just some of them.


Scott said:
In all honesty, I think the best thing you can do right now is read
what Dark is saying, take a step back from fixing hand to hand stuff
and sleep on it for a day or two.  The chap seriously has a point when
he says that no other game exists with this old-school simple method
of navigation, this amount of replay value, combined with these modern
killer sounds and music.

My responce:
Thanks, Scott. I'm glad to hear it. Yu andDark have both given me a lot 
to think about. I really really appreciate your support and advice. I 
really do.



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Re: [Audyssey] Side scrollers was: MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS


Hi Ryan,
Indeed he did. I'm truly glad I am not quite in his situation. I really 
can't blame him for getting out of the accesible game business. However, 
I do believe it might have been handled better.


Ryan Strunk wrote:

Yeah no. James North had issues way worse than the community hounding him.
  



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Re: [Audyssey] Hand to Hand Conbat?

2009-10-28 Thread Jim Kitchen


Hi Thomas,

Just in case you want to, quieting the sounds during a pause is not that hard 
to do.  And for my games that do it, the idea is for like when the phone rings, 
you want to tab to a different AP or any thing like that where the sounds of 
the game is in the way or annoying.

So for me in VB6 and DX 8.1 I need to declare all of the sound buffers in the 
declarations section such as in Puppy1

Dim mg12 As DirectSoundSecondaryBuffer8

So I just copied all of the declared sound buffer variables that might be 
playing and pasted them into the paws sub.  I then got the current playing 
volume, then set all of their volumes to non audible and put the game in a 
pause loop.  Then when a key or button was pressed to resume the game, it set 
all of the volumes back to what they were when the initial pause key or button 
was pressed.

Here is my paws sub


Sub paws()
Dim pv(18)
On Local Error Resume Next
clk
jkp = 0
say2  Puppy Pause 
v = -6000
pv(1) = sy.GetVolume
pv(2) = sy2.GetVolume
pv(3) = sy3.GetVolume
pv(4) = aaf.GetVolume
pv(5) = bp1.GetVolume
pv(6) = bp2.GetVolume
pv(7) = bp3.GetVolume
pv(8) = bp4.GetVolume
pv(9) = wind.GetVolume
pv(10) = pengl.GetVolume
pv(11) = pengr.GetVolume
pv(12) = bgp1.GetVolume
pv(13) = bgp2.GetVolume
pv(14) = bgp3.GetVolume
pv(15) = bgp4.GetVolume
pv(16) = bgp5.GetVolume
pv(17) = bgp6.GetVolume
sy.SetVolume v
sy2.SetVolume v
sy3.SetVolume v
aaf.SetVolume v
bp1.SetVolume v
bp2.SetVolume v
bp3.SetVolume v
bp4.SetVolume v
wind.SetVolume v
pengl.SetVolume -2727
pengr.SetVolume -2727
bgp1.SetVolume v
bgp2.SetVolume v
bgp3.SetVolume v
bgp4.SetVolume v
bgp5.SetVolume v
bgp6.SetVolume v
If jkok = 1 Then
say  Press the same button to resume game. 
Else
say  Press the P key to resume game. 
End If
dyke 0.3
diDev.Poll
DoEvents
jkp = 0
clk
hk = 0
Do
DoEvents
If jkok = 1 Then
diDev.Poll
DoEvents
If jkp = 1 Then hk = 1
Else
DoEvents
If g2$ = p Then hk = 1
End If
DoEvents
Loop While hk = 0
say2  resuming 
clk
sy.SetVolume pv(1)
sy2.SetVolume pv(2)
sy3.SetVolume pv(3)
aaf.SetVolume pv(4)
bp1.SetVolume pv(5)
bp2.SetVolume pv(6)
bp3.SetVolume pv(7)
bp4.SetVolume pv(8)
wind.SetVolume pv(9)
pengl.SetVolume pv(10)
pengr.SetVolume pv(11)
bgp1.SetVolume pv(12)
bgp2.SetVolume pv(13)
bgp3.SetVolume pv(14)
bgp4.SetVolume pv(15)
bgp5.SetVolume pv(16)
bgp6.SetVolume pv(17)
clk
jkp = 0
dyke 0.7
End Sub

HTH

BFN

Jim

If you go out of your mind, do it quietly, so as not to disturb those around 
you.

j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
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Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

, pluss 6 levels of pure classic 80's!

Just a suggestion.
all the best,
Dark.




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Re: [Audyssey] a game idea... wall bumper

2009-10-28 Thread Charles Rivard

Sounds like a real smash of an idea!  Guzzle guzzle guzzle.  Pour it down 
the muzzle.  Beer here, quickly.  Your idea makes me downright thirsty!
---
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- Original Message - 
From: peter Mahach piterm...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:06 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] a game idea... wall bumper

I thought of this when writing my message about mota's future, and this *is* 
not any real idea.
The game takes place in a giant maze, probably 1000x1000. you were drunk... 
but you slep, and you are over the hangover. you're fresh... but no! you've 
no orientation! rack up points in this fast pased modern fps game! bump into 
walls, locked doors, and be careful! your orientation will slowly rise! find 
beer bottlesand drink the contents of  them. when your you begin to see 
stars - hear the sound spinning in the stereofield you'll be up against a 
boss, god thomas of the  fps industry. kill him and his 3d related code 
blocks with your uncareful walking, while being careful, as these block's 
rise your orientation. if your orientation goes to 100, you walk out of the 
maze, and the game is over.

I guess that's something I'd be good at, *lol*.

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[Audyssey] Help in mota please

2009-10-28 Thread Mike Maslo

Hi gamers:

 

I am still having so much trouble with the ropes in mota. I do not
understand what I am doing wrong. I am in still in room 2 and can't seem to
figure out what I am doing wrong.

 

I climb on the rope and I hit the r key for room and here when I am three
quarters the way up that I am in room 3. I hit the v key to view and it says
a ledge is 5 meters down and then a ledge 2 meters down and then same to the
right plus a rope to the right I think.

 

I hit the control plus right arrow and control plus left arrow and keep
going right back to room 2. What am I doing wrong? I am so frustrated and
aggravated that I am this stupid and can't figure this out.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

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Re: [Audyssey] Help in mota please


Hi Mike,
When jumping make sure your weapons are holstered. You can easily check 
this by pressing control+w. If the weapons are drawn holster them before 
jumping. The reason is if you have a heavy weapon drawn you won't be 
able to jump as far as you would if they are holstered.


HTH

Mike Maslo wrote:

Hi gamers:

 


I am still having so much trouble with the ropes in mota. I do not
understand what I am doing wrong. I am in still in room 2 and can't seem to
figure out what I am doing wrong.

 


I climb on the rope and I hit the r key for room and here when I am three
quarters the way up that I am in room 3. I hit the v key to view and it says
a ledge is 5 meters down and then a ledge 2 meters down and then same to the
right plus a rope to the right I think.

 


I hit the control plus right arrow and control plus left arrow and keep
going right back to room 2. What am I doing wrong? I am so frustrated and
aggravated that I am this stupid and can't figure this out.

 


Any help would be appreciated.

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[Audyssey] what was the plan at one time? - Re: FPS VS. Side Scrollers

2009-10-28 Thread Charles Rivard

If I remember correctly, Tom planned the game we are playing betas of to be 
the first in a series, although it did not have the user requested features 
it now has.  It was to be a classic side scroller.  It would be followed up 
with a 3D game.  This is what I was hoping for, as it would please both 
sides of the gaming community.  If you don't like the first game, buy the 
next one, or buy both.  That has changed because of the many user requested 
features that have been added, making the game what it currently is.  It is 
evolving.  I liked the game as it was, and as it is.  It is more fun now 
than it was to me.  I do like the idea of giving gamers the last beta of 
Monty with the names changed, providing that copyright issues are avoided by 
doing this.  I suppose that, in the long run, if the current game can easily 
be made 3D, we will be getting a bonus in comparison to what we paid money 
for in the first place.  It's sort of like buying a set of tires and getting 
the car, too, although this might be an exaggeration.
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In God we trust!
- Original Message - 
From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com
To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 2:14 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] FPS VS. Side Scrollers


Hi Thomas,

The way I see it, you would finish Mysteries of the ancients as it is, in
the style it is now following. I personally enjoy classic style Side
Scrollers so this one is definitely one I like. For the next game in the
Tomb Hunter series, you could make an FPS.

Hayden

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Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

2009-10-28 Thread Charles Rivard

Is an open source game one that can be worked on by any programmer who 
acquires it?  If so, what can they do with it once it is to their liking?
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In God we trust!
- Original Message - 
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 80's games suggestion

Hi Dark,
I may have the source code for Montezuma's Revenge around here, but I
can't tell you what version of the source I have. I can say that beta 9
was full of miner bugs, and obviously I wouldn't be updating the game to
fix those bugs. So even if I rereleased that game it would be with the
understanding that it is a test release and not a stable version.
Personally, I think a better suggestion is to create an all new open
source project that is like Montezuma's Revenge but with a different
name. That way I could put it on my developers center as an open source
example  of a simple accessible game while at the same time satisfying
those who want a completely classic side-scroller.

dark wrote:
 Hi Tom.

 Here's a rather crazy idea to salve the feelings of those who are 
 desperate for an 80's game.

 Go back to the last stable version of montizuma's return,  say beta 
 9,  I stil have this on my harddrive,  which is possibly illegal, 
 but deleting good games is against my principles.

 The game already has 6, highly playable 80's side scroller levels.

 Re-reccord the name of the game to something generic,  Temple 
 adventures, treasure quest, --- Montizuma's avengence, do a quick search 
 and replace on the instructions to change the name of panama Jo to 
 something else,  peruvian Jim?

 Then offer it as an extra freeby to those who buy Mota.

 They then get all of Mota,  which I hope will continue as a modern 
 side scroller, pluss 6 levels of pure classic 80's!

 Just a suggestion.

 all the best,

 Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Side-Scroller vs FPS