Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Well I know nothing on programming and I wouldn't be in your shoes in writing games for quids. Lisa Hayes skype name, lisa12257 join my chat list subscribe at [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > Hi Lisa, > Yes, it most certainly is. I have been doing some research the past > week on this very issue, and what we want to do isn't easy, but > shouldn't be extremely difficult either. > The main issue is just finding the proper stuff to work with Java to do > force feedback for Raceway, getting FreeTTS for text to speech, joal or > something for audio, and so on. FRom all accounts doing a cross platform > game should be doable. > > > Lisa hayes wrote: >> Well that's a relief. Sure is I bet. >> Lisa Hayes >> skype name, lisa12257 >> join my chat list subscribe at [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1208 - Release Date: > 3/01/2008 3:52 PM > > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Ah, very good then; Glad he cleared that up, and if I misspoke based on an incorrect assumption, then I'm truly sorry. :) AGreed on the ease of switching back and forth with languages. The only difficulty I find in switching / adapting code from one form to another is actually figuring out the original programmer's organization! lol! -And I say this even if I was the original programmer! lol! Going back into code I wrote a year ago is like going back through the strata of ages sometimes!... Since I'm really not a coder by trade or love so to speak, and don't do it every day, I find my styles tending to evolve and re- evolve with a language in a given project. I know some of that is natural, but when one does something every day, one can tend to maintain a certain level of quality throughout a project. so for myself, my organizational skills are great, however as I get acquainted with a new project or new way of coding, I tend to need to settle in again. So while adapting code is easy, figuring out what the heck I was thinking at the time may not be! lol! anyway, excellent topic btw! -And, perhaps to take it a step further and bring others into it, do you have any particular style of starting a project from scratch for a given style of game?... I.E. what parts of it do you like to code or create or think about first?... for myself, I change depending on the project, as I'd sort of alluded to above, so I'm wondering if you have a particular style that you tend to go by?... anyway, have a great weekend!... Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 4, 2008, at 1:49 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Cara, > I appreciate your concern. However, as for Claudio He later wrote a > responce that tried to clear up his earlier post by explaining that by > calling me James North he was trying to point out I took his place as > the developer of the game etc. Not necessarily that I was acting like > James. However, that aside the over all tone of the message still > seamed > negative, but I am not going to dwell on it. > Part of the problem you discover when you program things is that the > general computer users don't have a clue about what you do, how you > work, and how software works in general. Actually, there is a majority > that don't even care how it works just as long as it works. So there > is > this mysterious belief that programming is some sort of difficult > magic > that is produced by computer wizards or something. > The truth is that all programming languages must abide by certain > rules, > laws, and coding conventions just like the laws of Physics. An integer > based variable is the same in Algebra, Visual Basic, Java, C++, C#, > etc. > So converting that code from one language to another is childs play > once > you know how to declare it in both languages. Between languages like > C# > and Java the code looks so similar to me that converting one to the > other is not difficult. > > Cara Quinn wrote: >> thomas, though I obviously had nothing at all to do with the >> earlier post you're responding to, I'd like to extend my apologies to >> you for it's tone. I know at least a little bit about the kind of >> person you are and you don't deserve this sort of treatment in any >> way, shape, or form. Furthermore, for myself, these are exactly the >> sort of attitudes that dissuade me from doing more developing and >> putting more time into it... >> >> I truly hope this is just a case of errors in translation?... >> >> There are so many companies out there that don't give a damn about >> the consumer at all, but somehow devs that are really putting the >> time >> and effort into this to make something nice for people are getting >> crap for it in plain english! :) >> >> I'm sorry, the fact that someone three or so years ago spent what >> amounts to a drop in the bucket, for a game they didn't get doesn't >> have the right to stamp their lil foot and think they somehow have >> the >> right to tell another human being who is doing them a favor in all >> honesty, what they should or shouldn't be doing. >> >> It's just a bloody game, and nobody's saying what happened was >> right or just or anything else like that, but it sure doesn't give >> one >> the right to be an absolute brat and treat someone with such >> disrespect over something as ridiculous as a blasted game simply >> because they didn't get their little way... >> >> Sorry, but forgive me for not being sympathetic to that cause... >> >> To those of you out there who feel this way, please grow up and learn >> how to be human beings? -At least until you get your next fix of >> gameplay?... >> >> Anyway, once again, Thomas, all the best to you and yours and I'm >> ashamed of other blind people out there who act this way. It >> disgusts >> me... >> >> Have a great day and talk with ya soon!... >> >> Smiles, >> >> Cara :) >> > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Ga
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Cara, I appreciate your concern. However, as for Claudio He later wrote a responce that tried to clear up his earlier post by explaining that by calling me James North he was trying to point out I took his place as the developer of the game etc. Not necessarily that I was acting like James. However, that aside the over all tone of the message still seamed negative, but I am not going to dwell on it. Part of the problem you discover when you program things is that the general computer users don't have a clue about what you do, how you work, and how software works in general. Actually, there is a majority that don't even care how it works just as long as it works. So there is this mysterious belief that programming is some sort of difficult magic that is produced by computer wizards or something. The truth is that all programming languages must abide by certain rules, laws, and coding conventions just like the laws of Physics. An integer based variable is the same in Algebra, Visual Basic, Java, C++, C#, etc. So converting that code from one language to another is childs play once you know how to declare it in both languages. Between languages like C# and Java the code looks so similar to me that converting one to the other is not difficult. Cara Quinn wrote: >thomas, though I obviously had nothing at all to do with the > earlier post you're responding to, I'd like to extend my apologies to > you for it's tone. I know at least a little bit about the kind of > person you are and you don't deserve this sort of treatment in any > way, shape, or form. Furthermore, for myself, these are exactly the > sort of attitudes that dissuade me from doing more developing and > putting more time into it... > > I truly hope this is just a case of errors in translation?... > >There are so many companies out there that don't give a damn about > the consumer at all, but somehow devs that are really putting the time > and effort into this to make something nice for people are getting > crap for it in plain english! :) > >I'm sorry, the fact that someone three or so years ago spent what > amounts to a drop in the bucket, for a game they didn't get doesn't > have the right to stamp their lil foot and think they somehow have the > right to tell another human being who is doing them a favor in all > honesty, what they should or shouldn't be doing. > >It's just a bloody game, and nobody's saying what happened was > right or just or anything else like that, but it sure doesn't give one > the right to be an absolute brat and treat someone with such > disrespect over something as ridiculous as a blasted game simply > because they didn't get their little way... > > Sorry, but forgive me for not being sympathetic to that cause... > > To those of you out there who feel this way, please grow up and learn > how to be human beings? -At least until you get your next fix of > gameplay?... > >Anyway, once again, Thomas, all the best to you and yours and I'm > ashamed of other blind people out there who act this way. It disgusts > me... > > Have a great day and talk with ya soon!... > > Smiles, > > Cara :) > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Lisa, Yes, it most certainly is. I have been doing some research the past week on this very issue, and what we want to do isn't easy, but shouldn't be extremely difficult either. The main issue is just finding the proper stuff to work with Java to do force feedback for Raceway, getting FreeTTS for text to speech, joal or something for audio, and so on. FRom all accounts doing a cross platform game should be doable. Lisa hayes wrote: > Well that's a relief. Sure is I bet. > Lisa Hayes > skype name, lisa12257 > join my chat list subscribe at [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Shaun, There is no Java 5.2 or Java access bridge 5.2. Currently, I am running Java 1.5.0_14 with access bridge 2.0 and that seams to be an accessible and stable Java platform for Windows, Mac OS, and Linux for writing games. shaun everiss wrote: > hal is supposed to be up with it but with 5.2 access java, aah no. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Valiant, Yes, that is correct. If someone gets NVDA 0.5 it will work fine with the Java access bridge 2.0. In fact, I am using NVDA right now for my swing based Java applications under Windows and Orca for the same apps under Linux. So for games NVDA is a great alternative for any screen reader with no Java support. Valiant (on laptop) wrote: > Hi. > NVDA works with java, I think, I could be wrong, but it has enough support > to run with open office.org, window eyes users unhappy about maybe this > thing not supporting window eyes? could just download NVDA and use that if > you need it, just a thinks. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi. NVDA works with java, I think, I could be wrong, but it has enough support to run with open office.org, window eyes users unhappy about maybe this thing not supporting window eyes? could just download NVDA and use that if you need it, just a thinks. - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > hal is supposed to be up with it but with 5.2 access java, aah no. > At 10:19 a.m. 3/01/2008, you wrote: >>Hi Willem, >>I just did some research on supported Java platforms and it appears Mac >>X Leopard comes with Java 1.5.13 , and of course there is both Windows >>and Linux versions of Java 1.5.13. As a result if I write my future >>games in Java making a game cross platform should be a piece of cake. >>Java has it's own gaming APIs, the Java accessibility API, which happens >>to work with Jaws, VoiceOver, and Orca which means any games I create >>would work with the three major screen readers in question. Window Eyes >>still is behind with Java technology, but I can't help it if GW Micro is >>not on the ball with Java like other screen readers apparently are. >> >>Willem wrote: >>> Thomas, I have no doubt that you would be able to make your games cross >>> platform, although it sounds as if, to use the metaphor, you would have >>> to >>> make oranges taste like apples, to make everything work correctly, but >>> in >>> the end it is your choice. Only you can decide if the effort necessary >>> validates the reward. No question, it would be a good thing to have a >>> cross >>> platform raceway and I am sure you will release a quality product,. >>> >> >> >>--- >>Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >>If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>list, >>please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Kara rote: Hi che, for myself, in the last two months, I've seen at the very least, 10 to fifteen new VI Mac users, and that's only in my own sphere. Now, that translates to about $450 if a game is $30 a pop. end quote. Well, that is assuming every one of those mac users bought the game of course. Probably 1 or 2 of those would buy any given game given current rates of purchases. However, if the numbers of accessible gamers using macs is large enough, or gets to be large enough, it would certainly warrant further investigation into the possibilities of doing a mac version of some games. As for myself, it doesn't matter what the operating system is, I have used SGI Unix boxes and lots of macs as a visual effects artist and I loved them both, I use windows now because at the moment it offers more of the software I need to work with, but if Apple were to get the upper hand on that end, I'd switch in a heartbeat. Does anyone have numbers on generally how many blinks are currently using macs? Later, Che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Tom, Well, hopefully I won't have to drop anything to support force feedback racing wheels on the Windows platform. Another lister and I have been talking about an open source game library called JInput off list which is suppose to wrap DirectX for Java based games. As a result I could easily create an AWT game controler interface for Mac OS and Linux, and a JInput game controller interface for Windows which would give me the ability to control racing wheels, game pads, and the usual features Windows users want. So where I am currently it strongly looks like Java 1.5.14 is the language I should be doing multiplatform games in and it looks like I can make both sides of the issue happy to a greater degree. With hopefully very miner changes in the games source to do it. I've also been looking at an open source library called Joal. This is an open source library that supports OpenAL. With Joal I should be able to create completely 3D audio environments on Mac, Linux, and Windows with not allot of major issues between them. So again this looks very promising news so far. Finally, I am uncertain how to handle speech output, but if there is a will there is a way. The easiest and time tested method is just to record voice clips and load them in real time like Sarah, Troopenum, Sound RTS, etc do. Cheers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi, Well, by the time I have anything ready for the Mac i suspect Mac OS will catch up with the newer Java runtime environments and development kits anyway. The version I am using on my desktop is 1.5.14 which is a stable and good version of the JRE and JDK. Cara Quinn wrote: >Oh interesting, I found libraries for 1.5.6 but not 1.5.13... > >Well will keep looking and see what I find... Sorry I couldn't be > of more help!... > > Smiles, > > Cara :) > > > On Jan 2, 2008, at 1:19 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: > > >> Hi Willem, >> I just did some research on supported Java platforms and it appears >> Mac >> X Leopard comes with Java 1.5.13 , and of course there is both Windows >> and Linux versions of Java 1.5.13. As a result if I write my future >> games in Java making a game cross platform should be a piece of cake. >> Java has it's own gaming APIs, the Java accessibility API, which >> happens >> to work with Jaws, VoiceOver, and Orca which means any games I create >> would work with the three major screen readers in question. Window >> Eyes >> still is behind with Java technology, but I can't help it if GW >> Micro is >> not on the ball with Java like other screen readers apparently are. >> >> Willem wrote: >> >>> Thomas, I have no doubt that you would be able to make your games >>> cross >>> platform, although it sounds as if, to use the metaphor, you would >>> have to >>> make oranges taste like apples, to make everything work correctly, >>> but in >>> the end it is your choice. Only you can decide if the effort >>> necessary >>> validates the reward. No question, it would be a good thing to >>> have a cross >>> platform raceway and I am sure you will release a quality product,. >>> >>> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> . >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of >> the list, >> please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > --- > View my Online Portfolio at: > http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Cara, I have seen similar things in my own Sphere. I have been on and off the Linux blind user forums, and it seams every time I go back there are fresh new users on the lists asking questions of how to get Orca working, what media player is most accessible, help getting Evolution setup for calendar and email, using Firefox for web browsing, gaim for instant messenging, the usual newby stuff you expect from totally new users. Sun, the creators of Java, are doing most of the access work for Linux and their focus is soully on working on day to day applications making them accessible for business and home office use. That is fine, but multimedia applications is the one thing every new user asks about and are disappointed in discovering there aren't a wide selection of accessible choices yet. Cara Quinn wrote: >Hi che, for myself, in the last two months, I've seen at the very > least, 10 to fifteen new VI Mac users, and that's only in my own > sphere. Now, that translates to about $450 if a game is $30 a pop. > Now I'd personally rather spend $30 or so on an accessible game than > install Win XP for about $200 if I have the choice. lol! > >I also think the amount of VI Mac users will continue to rise with > the improvement of access tech available with OSX and beyond. > > These are obviously just my thoughts, and I think this topic is a > great one!... > > Thanks so much for your note and am looking forward to getting back > playing RR when I do windows on my lil baby! > > HOpe you / yours have had an absolutely awesome new year's celebration > and I wish ya a great 08!!! > > Smiles, > > Cara :) > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Sarah, Quote But it would really be a pitty if this only is possible at the cost of features that would be possible in Windows, but not for the other OS, for example force feedback support wich I would really love to see in the game. End quote Well, currently allot of the problem in this area is that computers in general are not major game companies primary target environment. If I was going to list gaming platforms according to statistics it would be in an order like: Sony Play Station, XBox, Nintendo Wii, Windows PC, Mac OS X, and Linux would get last place. As a result the Play Station and PSP would end up with all the research and development capital, followed by XBox, Wii, etc. Since Microsoft both owns the Windows and XBox gaming markets they have been working on a framework for game companies to target both with the same platform called XNA. Obviously, since Microsoft has both the money and resources features on XBox and Windows are going to be superior to Mac and Linux who are trailing behind both in technology and general support from the game comunity as a whole. In the passed any time a game became available for Mac or Linux it was only after it was released and made big sales in the Windows market. For example, around year 1999 the companies who made Civilization, Quake, etc hired a company called Loki Games to port all there games to the Linux platform. Unfortunately, for Linux gaming sales were not so great, and the project was stopped in 2001. Looking back on that mistake most game companies do not consider Linux a viable gaming platform except for those writing their games in Java which can be ported with very little cost to Mac and Linux. However, my opinion is that the game companies tried to go Linux before the market was there to sustain it. After all statistics have shown that the Linux PC market has nearly doubled since 2000, and Ubuntu Linux has become the Linux of choice for Del, many universities, and home users. So what I am basically saying is that Linux and Mac are great operating systems but some areas like gaming technology tend to be behind the general mmarket standards, because they have to play catch up with the big players like Sony and Microsoft. For Linux the GPL hobbles them in a special way, because anything that is introduced in to the core operating system must meet open source guidelines and standards. This is contrary to the big corperations view that they have to license, sell, and market everything with soul control over it. For example, Sony owns soul control over what can and can not be created for the Play Station. Last time I checked they wanted $25000 just for the PS2 and PSP developers kit, and that didn't include any royalties and licensing fees for using the platform. Even if you create a game then the game goes up to a review board which reviews the game and decides if it will be released to the general market. As a result they can license the technology for huge somes of cash, millions, and they don't have to share any secrets or use open source and free technology as they do it. Though, I believe Sony is currently using a modified Linux os for their core PS III technology as interesting as that sounds. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Well that's a relief. Sure is I bet. Lisa Hayes skype name, lisa12257 join my chat list subscribe at [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jeremy Gilley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > Hi Lisa and all, > Fortunately, I won't have to write a game three times to support Mac, > Linux, and Windows all at the same time. The language we are looking at, > Java, is very portible across Mac, Linux, and Windows operating systems > and was designed especially for developers wanting to run a program on > any operating system with only miner changes to support all of them. > For example, Mac OS Leopard has the Java runtime libraries installed by > default. For Windows and Linux the Java runtime is a simple add on which > of course you would be able to get from my system requirements page. No > big deal as far as I see it. > > > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: > 2/01/2008 11:29 AM > > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Agreed. People need to realize that developers, whether they be game or other types of developers, are human too. They have families, possibly other jobs, and most of all, feelings. If people have problems with a product, they should make an attempt to be polite when approaching the developer/representative. After all, nobody's perfect, to error is human, and having limitations is perfectly normal for everyone. If you don't like how something works, give constructive feedback, suggest alternatives. Don't just say "Holy cow this sucks," or "this isn't fair." Give reasons, valid ones. Show some appreciation for how much time they've put into their products. Let them know that they have your support, even if it's just a simple "thank you." Oh, and for the love of chocolate, don't tell them what to or not to do. Like Thomas said, he isn't a robot. Actually, I think some people are treated worse than robots. Ever heard of the Daleks from Doctor who? "OBEY, OR YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED! YOU WILL OBEY THE DALEKS!" When I read that comment to Thomas about how completing Raceway is his "job," and that he shouldn't experiment with his code, that's what it reminded me of -- Daleks ordering others around. Anyway, I think that's all. I also hope this whole debate was sparked by an error in translation, as Cara put it. Error or not, I think it needed to be said anyway. -- From: "Cara Quinn" < -- From: "Cara Quinn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:12 AM To: "Gamers Discussion list" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > thomas, though I obviously had nothing at all to do with the > earlier post you're responding to, I'd like to extend my apologies to > you for it's tone. I know at least a little bit about the kind of > person you are and you don't deserve this sort of treatment in any > way, shape, or form. Furthermore, for myself, these are exactly the > sort of attitudes that dissuade me from doing more developing and > putting more time into it... > > I truly hope this is just a case of errors in translation?... > > There are so many companies out there that don't give a damn about > the consumer at all, but somehow devs that are really putting the time > and effort into this to make something nice for people are getting > crap for it in plain english! :) > > I'm sorry, the fact that someone three or so years ago spent what > amounts to a drop in the bucket, for a game they didn't get doesn't > have the right to stamp their lil foot and think they somehow have the > right to tell another human being who is doing them a favor in all > honesty, what they should or shouldn't be doing. > > It's just a bloody game, and nobody's saying what happened was > right or just or anything else like that, but it sure doesn't give one > the right to be an absolute brat and treat someone with such > disrespect over something as ridiculous as a blasted game simply > because they didn't get their little way... > > Sorry, but forgive me for not being sympathetic to that cause... > > To those of you out there who feel this way, please grow up and learn > how to be human beings? -At least until you get your next fix of > gameplay?... > > Anyway, once again, Thomas, all the best to you and yours and I'm > ashamed of other blind people out there who act this way. It disgusts > me... > > Have a great day and talk with ya soon!... > > Smiles, > > Cara :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi, well, I myself am not a Linux or Mac user, but it would cirtainly be a great thing for others to have Raceway not only for Windows but also for these other OS. But it would really be a pitty if this only is possible at the cost of features that would be possible in Windows, but not for the other OS, for example force feedback support wich I would really love to see in the game. Regards Sarah -- "Amicus certus in re incerta cernitur." (Einen sicheren Freund erkennt man in unsicherer Sache.) Cicero --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi che, for myself, in the last two months, I've seen at the very least, 10 to fifteen new VI Mac users, and that's only in my own sphere. Now, that translates to about $450 if a game is $30 a pop. Now I'd personally rather spend $30 or so on an accessible game than install Win XP for about $200 if I have the choice. lol! I also think the amount of VI Mac users will continue to rise with the improvement of access tech available with OSX and beyond. These are obviously just my thoughts, and I think this topic is a great one!... Thanks so much for your note and am looking forward to getting back playing RR when I do windows on my lil baby! HOpe you / yours have had an absolutely awesome new year's celebration and I wish ya a great 08!!! Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 2, 2008, at 2:03 PM, Che wrote: > I would do a survey before going through the trouble of cross > developing > any accessible game. I'm afraid given the limited amount of Linux > and Mac > users using accessible technology, it simply would not be worth the > effort, > especially if you end up cutting out features to make it work on all > systems. > Regarding the mac users, the windows environment running on there > works > just fine for accessible games from what I have heard, so I'm not > sure how > much impact a mac version would have at any rate. > I agree with Karl that there are a lot of folks out there waiting on > raceway, and I'm sure over 90 percent of them are ready to roll with > windows. > As a developer, I have no intentions of going cross platform, I am > quite > happy with the response I've gotten from windows users, but if I > were doing > raceway, I would make it as good as possible for windows, and leave > the > cross platform experiment for another game down the road after > gathering > more info about linux and mac users. > I think it is a noble idea, but one that will probably be > dissapointing in > the final analysis. > Whatever your decision Thomas, I wish you luck with it. > Later, > Che > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > . > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of > the list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Here if ya want me!!! Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 2, 2008, at 1:58 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi William, > Assuming I actually do this I would have to have some sort of small > beta > team to work out the actual specifics of targeting all three operating > systems. As for Linux and Windows I have both here to get the initial > testing done, but I don't have a Mac Leopard system on hand to test > against Mac. I can get my hands on Tiger, but the development libs on > Tiger is too old for what I want to do. Leopard is up to current > standards per say. > > william lomas wrote: >> hi >> >> >> would you be willing to have mac and linnux testers to help you test >> pre-beta releases, to make sure it all works as you expect? >> thanks, will >> i of course would love raceway on the mac tombraider, etc. however, i >> do understand the steering wheel issue >> > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > . > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of > the list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Oh interesting, I found libraries for 1.5.6 but not 1.5.13... Well will keep looking and see what I find... Sorry I couldn't be of more help!... Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 2, 2008, at 1:19 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Willem, > I just did some research on supported Java platforms and it appears > Mac > X Leopard comes with Java 1.5.13 , and of course there is both Windows > and Linux versions of Java 1.5.13. As a result if I write my future > games in Java making a game cross platform should be a piece of cake. > Java has it's own gaming APIs, the Java accessibility API, which > happens > to work with Jaws, VoiceOver, and Orca which means any games I create > would work with the three major screen readers in question. Window > Eyes > still is behind with Java technology, but I can't help it if GW > Micro is > not on the ball with Java like other screen readers apparently are. > > Willem wrote: >> Thomas, I have no doubt that you would be able to make your games >> cross >> platform, although it sounds as if, to use the metaphor, you would >> have to >> make oranges taste like apples, to make everything work correctly, >> but in >> the end it is your choice. Only you can decide if the effort >> necessary >> validates the reward. No question, it would be a good thing to >> have a cross >> platform raceway and I am sure you will release a quality product,. >> > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > . > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of > the list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
thomas, though I obviously had nothing at all to do with the earlier post you're responding to, I'd like to extend my apologies to you for it's tone. I know at least a little bit about the kind of person you are and you don't deserve this sort of treatment in any way, shape, or form. Furthermore, for myself, these are exactly the sort of attitudes that dissuade me from doing more developing and putting more time into it... I truly hope this is just a case of errors in translation?... There are so many companies out there that don't give a damn about the consumer at all, but somehow devs that are really putting the time and effort into this to make something nice for people are getting crap for it in plain english! :) I'm sorry, the fact that someone three or so years ago spent what amounts to a drop in the bucket, for a game they didn't get doesn't have the right to stamp their lil foot and think they somehow have the right to tell another human being who is doing them a favor in all honesty, what they should or shouldn't be doing. It's just a bloody game, and nobody's saying what happened was right or just or anything else like that, but it sure doesn't give one the right to be an absolute brat and treat someone with such disrespect over something as ridiculous as a blasted game simply because they didn't get their little way... Sorry, but forgive me for not being sympathetic to that cause... To those of you out there who feel this way, please grow up and learn how to be human beings? -At least until you get your next fix of gameplay?... Anyway, once again, Thomas, all the best to you and yours and I'm ashamed of other blind people out there who act this way. It disgusts me... Have a great day and talk with ya soon!... Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 2, 2008, at 11:30 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Claudio, > > Quote > I don't understand why do you wand make a version for mac and linux. > End quote > > I can give several reasons why I think I should. First, probably the > biggest reason is that I am a Linux user myself and know of several > Linux blind users that aren't even on this list since up until now > accessible games has been a Windows only thing. Second, there are > allot > more Mac and Linux users out there than you probably realize, > because I > expect allot of listers on this list mainly hang out on mailing lists > for Windows users, and aren't aware of what is happening on other > platforms outside of Windows. > What makes me different from the majority on this list Windows is my > secondary operating system. I use Linux allot for reading email, > browsing the web, playing mp3s, etc and if I had accessible games it > would be all the more reason to remain a Linux user. I primarily use > Windows for designing Windows based applications and of course > currently > playing and writing accessible games. > As for the Mac there is an entire mailing list devoted to the topic > called the > Mac Visionaries list which I suspect not everyone here belongs to > since > they aren't Mac users. Though, there are some Mac users on this list. > > Quote > Thomas, you are now james north and your job is to complete raceway!!! > End quote > > I really am offended by that remark. I am nothing like Mr. James > North, > and I have done everything humanly possible to complete the games he > started, and what is more I have used my own personal skills to > improve > the games and make them better than they were. Noone is more aware > than > I that I have to complete Raceway, but while I am working on it I > should > take the time to think about what I can do to make it better for > everyone. > > Quote > There are several people here who have ordered the game 3 years ago... > End quote > > I am aware of those people on pre-order status, and I feel that you > have > missed the point of this thread. The point of this thread was to find > out if those Raceway customers would enjoy seeing Raceway ported to > other platforms, and their thoughts will weigh heavily on what I > decide > regarding Raceway. For other games I can do whatever I want since > there > is no one to tell me no, but with Raceway I have to be careful to > deliver the best I can do for those pre-ordered customers. So there is > absolutely no need to remind me of the obvious. > > Quote > If you looking for a new language, you lost time! > End quote > > I think you are missing the obvious that I am skilled in multiple > programming languages. I have programmed in Python, Java, C++, C#, and > Visual Basic so all I really need do is decide on what language I need > to use and convert my programming code from one language to another. > Believe it or not converting from one language to another is much > easier > and faster than rewriting it all from scratch. Yes, there will be > delays, but the advantage of multiplatformed gaming would be > revolutionary for the blind co
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hello Thomas and all. First off let me say that I agree with the way that Che stated it, the idea of creating cross platform games is certainly a noble one and one that needs to be researched further and I think that you should continue to do so and I applaud you for this. However I am glad that you have been clear about the disadvantages to doing this, specifically the lack of good controller support with other platforms. I think that this would seriously hurt Raceway in particular and I have to say that were the alternate controller support dropped with this title, I would have to very seriously consider whether I was willing to buy it or not. While I actually don't own any new fangled controllers at this moment, prefering using the trackball or mouse in rail racer, if Raceway supports wheels I will definitely be buying one. As for tts output it sounds like you may have several ways to handle that so I suspect you will be able to lick that issue one way or the other. Trust me I am in no sense antiMac or antiLinux, I have worked with Linux quite a bit a few years back, however this was in the early days of it's accessibility and I became frustrated with either the lack of certain types of software or the hoops you have to go through to get things to work and so gave up on it for the moment, although I will most likely take it up again sometime. I have gotten so disgusted with the way that microsoft does things that if Linux would do everything I wanted it to I'd switch to it in a new york minute. As an access technology instructor I am very interested in the Mac and it's new screen access software which seems finally able to cut the mustard pretty well when compared to a windows screen reader. So in a nutshell, all this is to say that while I am completely for cross platform stuff and I think it is great, if these platforms are not up to letting you provide the features and functionality that your customers are going to want then they are not. If you decide to support them despite this then you have to definitely weigh the advantage of gaining some sales with other OS users against the possibility of losing sales of some customers because whatever game you are working on does not utilize the new controller they've just run out and bought. That's my 2 cents' worth, I am sure you will arrive at the proper decision for you. Best regards, Tom -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 10:16 PM To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? Hello gamers, For about a month or so I have been doing research for USA Games on how to expand our future titles to target Mac, Linux, and Windows operating systems all at the same time. While my research isn't complete I do have some options on how I might actually target all three major operating systems at once. If research is successful I would like to convert all of the existing Raceway code over to a non-Windows specific language so I can support Mac, Linux, and Windows all at the same time. There are advantages and disadvantages to doing this which I would like to point out below. The obvious major advantage would be that no longer would a gamer have to be running Windows x to play accessible games like Raceway. Weather you use Mac, Linux, or Windows as your favorite os of choice you can play Raceway and future USA Games titles using the same technology. IN addition operating systems such as Linux with little to no high quality accessible games would be an equally powerful accessible gaming platform. Since Linux OS is free and my games are pretty cheap by most currancy standards it would save gamers money if they chose it as their gaming platform. One other advantage of going multiplatform in general that I think would be good for this comunity is platform independant networked games. Everyone who plays Rail Racer says that the online racing aspect is the high point of the game. Now, imagine taking that idea, build it using Java's excelant platform independant networking API, and play against blind players on any operating system out there. You might be running Windows Vista while the guy you are racing against is on Linux or Mac. However, there are a few pit falls and disadvantages I'd like to mention which I think should be addressed here. First, to insure maximum platform independence I would not likely be using DirectX as the multimedia API of choice. As a result some of the features of Raceway that were promised like force feedback stearing wheels, would have to be dropped in favor of using more generic and universal input devices like mice and keyboards with universal keyboard standards. This won't likely go down well with Raceway fans hoping for these features. Second, is the question of speech output. Every operating system has its own unique way of presenting text to speech. For Windows it is done thr
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Lisa and all, Fortunately, I won't have to write a game three times to support Mac, Linux, and Windows all at the same time. The language we are looking at, Java, is very portible across Mac, Linux, and Windows operating systems and was designed especially for developers wanting to run a program on any operating system with only miner changes to support all of them. For example, Mac OS Leopard has the Java runtime libraries installed by default. For Windows and Linux the Java runtime is a simple add on which of course you would be able to get from my system requirements page. No big deal as far as I see it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Oh god, I can't imagine doing the job of writing a game three times, Thomas you'd not have a life if you did that. Imagine for all the games doing it triple, no way. Lisa Hayes skype name, lisa12257 join my chat list subscribe at [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:48 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > Hi, > > Quote > hmm one wild idea I can think of is maybe 3 different versions of raceway. > I > mean really 3 different version, wouldn't it rock having to code all that? > End quote > > Not hardly. Parish the thought. It is bad enough writing one version let > alone three completely new versions from scratch. > > Quote > although ya know, aren't lenux and max almost the same opporating system > as > in mac is bassed off lenux? > End quote > > That isn't true. Mac OS X is based off the BSD kernel and operating > system not Linux. Not only that they use completely different APIs for > programming various things. For example, they have two completely > different Windows developer kits for programmers. If i want to write > something for Mac, and it is a graphical application, I need to use > Cocoa which is Mac's special graphical user interface. If I want to > design a similar application for Linux I will have to use GTK+ which is > the accessible graphical user interface developers kit for Linux. > So there is nothing simple here about doing this. There is allot of > differences between operating systems that would need solved, and I > suppose I could build the application in separate parts that could be > assembled based on os. Here is platform independant game core, here is > platform specific user interface, bla. Lots and lots to think about. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date: > 1/01/2008 12:09 PM > > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
agreed, and a dude needs time away from work once in a blue moon anyways. - Original Message - From: "Lisa hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > Oh god, I can't imagine doing the job of writing a game three times, > Thomas > you'd not have a life if you did that. Imagine for all the games doing it > triple, no way. > Lisa Hayes > skype name, lisa12257 > join my chat list subscribe at [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - Original Message - > From: "Thomas Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:48 AM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > > >> Hi, >> >> Quote >> hmm one wild idea I can think of is maybe 3 different versions of >> raceway. >> I >> mean really 3 different version, wouldn't it rock having to code all >> that? >> End quote >> >> Not hardly. Parish the thought. It is bad enough writing one version let >> alone three completely new versions from scratch. >> >> Quote >> although ya know, aren't lenux and max almost the same opporating system >> as >> in mac is bassed off lenux? >> End quote >> >> That isn't true. Mac OS X is based off the BSD kernel and operating >> system not Linux. Not only that they use completely different APIs for >> programming various things. For example, they have two completely >> different Windows developer kits for programmers. If i want to write >> something for Mac, and it is a graphical application, I need to use >> Cocoa which is Mac's special graphical user interface. If I want to >> design a similar application for Linux I will have to use GTK+ which is >> the accessible graphical user interface developers kit for Linux. >> So there is nothing simple here about doing this. There is allot of >> differences between operating systems that would need solved, and I >> suppose I could build the application in separate parts that could be >> assembled based on os. Here is platform independant game core, here is >> platform specific user interface, bla. Lots and lots to think about. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date: >> 1/01/2008 12:09 PM >> >> > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
um, i thought we weren't slamming people on here? he was just trying to make the game more friendly to most players, or that is what i had gathard. a game developer would try to suit everyone and not just a certain group of people. I am a windows user, but if i wern't and i heard about this raceway being made and i had not a windows computer and i could not play it on my own system, i would be slightly disappointed, but then again, i would also hate to see any features taken out of a game just to do so, but i can see it from the other side of the fence. sorry, just my 2 cents, and tryhing to see the issue from my side and the programmers side as well... tough choice to make... and i wish you all the best. - Original Message - From: "Claudio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > Hello Thomas! > I don't understand why do you wand make a version for mac and linux. > Thomas, you are now james nord and your job is to complete raceway!!! > There several people here who have orderet the game a 3 years ago and you? > You relax and say: > "Yes, i have all time of my life! > I make a mac and linux version!" > Oh man boy! > If you looking for a new language, you lost time! > And the game? > The game will bee ready in 2009 or 10!!! > Your job is to complete the game not to experiment with it!! > If you develop raceway Thomas, you aren't Thomas you are James Nord!!! > And James Nord have shipped the Keys and now you have the job to complete > the game. > If the game is ready for release, you can doo anywere but not now!!! > You haven't the time for experiment with the game!!! > Regards, Claudio. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Cara, Quote in that VoiceOver does really well with plain text as well, and I'm assuming that linux screen readers would too?... So you might be able to output plain text via Perl methods and then simply let the individual tts software already on each system render it itself?... End quote Hmmm... Something like that has possabilities I didn't even think of. One approach here is to simply ignore any GUI interface at all and simply print text to the operating systems command prompt Window that would be accessible by any screen reader in the world. Window Eyes, Jaws, Orca, VoiceOver, etc should be able to read anything sent to the screen as text only. Even Java applications work fine with no access bridge if you drop swing and just print text directly to the screen usingsomething like System.out.println(). That is an interesting thought. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
And after a quick Google, here's some extra info: http://lists.apple.com/archives/java-dev/2007/Oct//msg00370.html Draconis Entertainment [EMAIL PROTECTED] Draconis Entertainment "Feel the power...wield the magic..." http://www.DraconisEntertainment.com http://www.DracoEnt.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi, Yes, I am beginning to see that. Like you I have had personal experience dealing with Linux and Mac users outside of Audyssey, and perhaps that is the forum that needs to be asked separately regarding this matter. I'll probably drop in on the Mac Visionaries list and see who all over there are looking for these kinds of games and what games of mine they would like to see on the Mac. Thanks. Draconis Entertainment wrote: > Hi Tom, > > You've probably already thought of this, but I wanted to point it > out. This is probably not the best forum for getting this kind of > feedback. I'm pretty confident that the vast majority of the users on > this list are Windows users, because accessible games are so scarce > for Mac and Linux at this point. I know that there are quite a few > blind Mac users in the Mac community of visually impaired users who > definitely want games, but most of them are not here on this list. > > Draconis Entertainment > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Draconis Entertainment > "Feel the power...wield the magic..." > http://www.DraconisEntertainment.com > http://www.DracoEnt.com > > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi William, Assuming I actually do this I would have to have some sort of small beta team to work out the actual specifics of targeting all three operating systems. As for Linux and Windows I have both here to get the initial testing done, but I don't have a Mac Leopard system on hand to test against Mac. I can get my hands on Tiger, but the development libs on Tiger is too old for what I want to do. Leopard is up to current standards per say. william lomas wrote: > hi > > > would you be willing to have mac and linnux testers to help you test > pre-beta releases, to make sure it all works as you expect? > thanks, will > i of course would love raceway on the mac tombraider, etc. however, i > do understand the steering wheel issue > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
I would do a survey before going through the trouble of cross developing any accessible game. I'm afraid given the limited amount of Linux and Mac users using accessible technology, it simply would not be worth the effort, especially if you end up cutting out features to make it work on all systems. Regarding the mac users, the windows environment running on there works just fine for accessible games from what I have heard, so I'm not sure how much impact a mac version would have at any rate. I agree with Karl that there are a lot of folks out there waiting on raceway, and I'm sure over 90 percent of them are ready to roll with windows. As a developer, I have no intentions of going cross platform, I am quite happy with the response I've gotten from windows users, but if I were doing raceway, I would make it as good as possible for windows, and leave the cross platform experiment for another game down the road after gathering more info about linux and mac users. I think it is a noble idea, but one that will probably be dissapointing in the final analysis. Whatever your decision Thomas, I wish you luck with it. Later, Che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Karl, That sounds like some pretty sound advice there. I think as you suggested I shouldn't drop the idea of cross platform games, but delay their introduction until I finish Raceway. Too many gamers have already come to want Raceway the way it was planned, and taking things out to make it work on all operating systems isn't all that popular from what I have read on this list. However, one reason I asked this question at all is I have already officially decided to drop C-Sharp and DirectX for future developments. After Raceway 1.0 comes out I wouldn't expect allot of upgrades and really cool features to come out for it, because I am sick of DirectX, .Net, and the constant changes Microsoft is making in those technologies. I can't even use Direct Play now, because it has been gutted and pulled completely from DirectX forcing me to totally research some other technology for online racing. Which is why I dropped online racing in the first place. To be to the point I am one frustrated developer all because Microsoft introduces something and then yanks it out and replaces it with something else. Microsoft introduced DirectX Input and Sound clear back with Windows 95, and now that Vista is out Microsoft announces that both are scheduled to be scrapped in 2008 or so in order to use XInput and XAudio so XBox games and Vista games can be quickly ported from one gaming platform to the other. i don't suppose Microsoft ever considered that they should leave both technologies in place. Especially, since I don't give a darn about writing XBox 360 games. G. Before anyone states the obvious, why don't I use the old time tested libraries instead of working with the bleeding edge, the answer is that is who I am. I have always been on the bleeding edge of technology. When a new version of Linux comes out in beta I download it, install it, and test it long before it becomes officialy released. When Vista was released I owned a copy with in 2 weeks of it's release in stores. When Visual Studio .Net was introduced I was among the first blind developers to begin learning and working with C-/Sharp and Visual Basic .Net before the rest of the blind programming market. As Michael Feir excelantly pointed out on blind cool tech sometimes you have to look outside the box to find new and wonderful things. I not only look outside the triditional blind box, but practically live out there on the edge testing, researching, and bringing back what I find out there on the software fronteer. Some people on this list have suggested there isn't a Mac or Linux market for games. That kind of thinking is still in the box we blind people have made for ourselves. Most blind computer users are not use to trial by fire, and determined to go out and experiment with Solaris, Linux, and Mac yet until us pioneer types go out and do it for them, bring it back, and tell them this is how it all works. Karl wrote: > Hi, > I'd say don't bother with porting Raceway. There are a lot of windows > specific features already requested, and this game has a solid start. > Instead, focus on cross platform development for your future games, and take > the time you really need to do it well and do it right. > We've all been waiting long enough for Raceway as it is. > Karl > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
hal is supposed to be up with it but with 5.2 access java, aah no. At 10:19 a.m. 3/01/2008, you wrote: >Hi Willem, >I just did some research on supported Java platforms and it appears Mac >X Leopard comes with Java 1.5.13 , and of course there is both Windows >and Linux versions of Java 1.5.13. As a result if I write my future >games in Java making a game cross platform should be a piece of cake. >Java has it's own gaming APIs, the Java accessibility API, which happens >to work with Jaws, VoiceOver, and Orca which means any games I create >would work with the three major screen readers in question. Window Eyes >still is behind with Java technology, but I can't help it if GW Micro is >not on the ball with Java like other screen readers apparently are. > >Willem wrote: >> Thomas, I have no doubt that you would be able to make your games cross >> platform, although it sounds as if, to use the metaphor, you would have to >> make oranges taste like apples, to make everything work correctly, but in >> the end it is your choice. Only you can decide if the effort necessary >> validates the reward. No question, it would be a good thing to have a cross >> platform raceway and I am sure you will release a quality product,. >> > > >--- >Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] >If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Willem, I just did some research on supported Java platforms and it appears Mac X Leopard comes with Java 1.5.13 , and of course there is both Windows and Linux versions of Java 1.5.13. As a result if I write my future games in Java making a game cross platform should be a piece of cake. Java has it's own gaming APIs, the Java accessibility API, which happens to work with Jaws, VoiceOver, and Orca which means any games I create would work with the three major screen readers in question. Window Eyes still is behind with Java technology, but I can't help it if GW Micro is not on the ball with Java like other screen readers apparently are. Willem wrote: > Thomas, I have no doubt that you would be able to make your games cross > platform, although it sounds as if, to use the metaphor, you would have to > make oranges taste like apples, to make everything work correctly, but in > the end it is your choice. Only you can decide if the effort necessary > validates the reward. No question, it would be a good thing to have a cross > platform raceway and I am sure you will release a quality product,. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Robin, Quote So instead of just using his current programming language C-Sharp he decided to go and learn a new programming language which is really great because it really isn't easy to learn a new programming language at first. End quote Actually, it is more like brushing up old skills rather than learning a new programming language. Unlike allot of game developers on this list I was fortunate enough to have basic programming training in several languages such as SQL, Java, C++, and Visual Basic in college. Over the years I have picked up C-Sharp, Python, and have tried to keep my Java programming up to date as possible. So I'm not exactly starting from scratch programming wize. Another point I'd like to make is experience. Once you have programmed in multiple programming languages as I have you begin to see there is allot of commonalities between languages than there are differences. Weather a programming language declares an integer based variable like int myVariable or something like myVariable As Integer it is the same exact thing you are dealing with. The only difference is how the language requires it to be written. In my experience most of the programming languages are based on the C language. Languages like Java, Perl, C++, C-Sharp, are all derived from C. So with that in mind if you write int myVariable in a Java application it will also be int myVariable in C, C++, C-Sharp, etc. That is why all colleges stress learning C++ before programming in other languages. It helps in a greater programming understanding, and also will prove useful in switching to a new language that has some basis in C or C++. The exception to this golden rule is Visual Basic which is in a catagory of its own. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Thomas, I have no doubt that you would be able to make your games cross platform, although it sounds as if, to use the metaphor, you would have to make oranges taste like apples, to make everything work correctly, but in the end it is your choice. Only you can decide if the effort necessary validates the reward. No question, it would be a good thing to have a cross platform raceway and I am sure you will release a quality product,. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > Hi, > > Quote > hmm one wild idea I can think of is maybe 3 different versions of raceway. > I > mean really 3 different version, wouldn't it rock having to code all that? > End quote > > Not hardly. Parish the thought. It is bad enough writing one version let > alone three completely new versions from scratch. > > Quote > although ya know, aren't lenux and max almost the same opporating system > as > in mac is bassed off lenux? > End quote > > That isn't true. Mac OS X is based off the BSD kernel and operating > system not Linux. Not only that they use completely different APIs for > programming various things. For example, they have two completely > different Windows developer kits for programmers. If i want to write > something for Mac, and it is a graphical application, I need to use > Cocoa which is Mac's special graphical user interface. If I want to > design a similar application for Linux I will have to use GTK+ which is > the accessible graphical user interface developers kit for Linux. > So there is nothing simple here about doing this. There is allot of > differences between operating systems that would need solved, and I > suppose I could build the application in separate parts that could be > assembled based on os. Here is platform independant game core, here is > platform specific user interface, bla. Lots and lots to think about. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Claudio, Quote I don't understand why do you wand make a version for mac and linux. End quote I can give several reasons why I think I should. First, probably the biggest reason is that I am a Linux user myself and know of several Linux blind users that aren't even on this list since up until now accessible games has been a Windows only thing. Second, there are allot more Mac and Linux users out there than you probably realise, because I expect allot of listers on this list mainly hang out on mailing lists for Windows users, and aren't aware of what is happening on other platforms outside of Windows. What makes me different from the majority on this list Windows is my secondary operating system. I use Linux allot for reading email, browsing the web, playing mp3s, etc and if I had accessible games it would be all the more reason to remain a Linux user. I primarily use Windows for designing Windows based applications and of course currently playing and writing accessible games. As for the Mac there is an entire mailing list devoted to the topic called the Mac Visionaries list which I suspect not everyone here belongs to since they aren't Mac users. Though, there are some Mac users on this list. Quote Thomas, you are now james north and your job is to complete raceway!!! End quote I really am offended by that remark. I am nothing like Mr. James North, and I have done everything humanly possible to complete the games he started, and what is more I have used my own personal skills to improve the games and make them better than they were. Noone is more aware than I that I have to complete Raceway, but while I am working on it I should take the time to think about what I can do to make it better for everyone. Quote There are several people here who have ordered the game 3 years ago... End quote I am aware of those people on pre-order status, and I feel that you have missed the point of this thread. The point of this thread was to find out if those Raceway customers would enjoy seeing Raceway ported to other platforms, and their thoughts will weigh heavily on what I decide regarding Raceway. For other games I can do whatever I want since there is no one to tell me no, but with Raceway I have to be careful to deliver the best I can do for those pre-ordered customers. So there is absolutely no need to remind me of the obvious. Quote If you looking for a new language, you lost time! End quote I think you are missing the obvious that I am skilled in multiple programming languages. I have programmed in Python, Java, C++, C#, and Visual Basic so all I really need do is decide on what language I need to use and convert my programming code from one language to another. Believe it or not converting from one language to another is much easier and faster than rewriting it all from scratch. Yes, there will be delays, but the advantage of multiplatformed gaming would be revolutionary for the blind comunity as a whole. Quote The game will bee ready in 2009 or 10!!! End quote What makes you so sure if I do the game in C-Sharp for Windows it will be done in 2008? There is much to do yet, and while it might appear earlier than making it multiplatform there is lots of ways to go with the game. Further more there are always more than programming delays to consider. I am not a robot. I have to work, eat, sleep,I get sick, visit family, listen to music, etc which means I need time away from the game not only for my sanity but as a reality of living a human existance. Quote Your job is to complete the game not to experiment with it!! End quote I'd like to just state that allot of experimentation went into making Montezuma's Return. Allot of experimentation went into STFC. Every game is an experiment of one kind or another. Trying to do something new doesn't come automatically. No matter if I target Windows or I target every operating system on the planet there is always going to be some kind of experimentation required to make it work properly, and by trying something new is how a programmer grows and expands. For example, the save game feature you see in the standard game play for Montezuma's Return. Did it automatically suddenly come out of my mind untested? No, I did quite a bit of experimentation to get that particular feature working. I have designed all of my games through constant trial by flames. I just jumped in without knowing how to do this or that, but learned it as I went along or experimented with it until I got it right. Oh, sure I could have rewritten his code word for word as is, and finished the games that way, but that would have not been the kind of game you wanted. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched a
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi, I'd say don't bother with porting Raceway. There are a lot of windows specific features already requested, and this game has a solid start. Instead, focus on cross platform development for your future games, and take the time you really need to do it well and do it right. We've all been waiting long enough for Raceway as it is. Karl - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > Hi, > > Quote > hmm one wild idea I can think of is maybe 3 different versions of raceway. > I > mean really 3 different version, wouldn't it rock having to code all that? > End quote > > Not hardly. Parish the thought. It is bad enough writing one version let > alone three completely new versions from scratch. > > Quote > although ya know, aren't lenux and max almost the same opporating system > as > in mac is bassed off lenux? > End quote > > That isn't true. Mac OS X is based off the BSD kernel and operating > system not Linux. Not only that they use completely different APIs for > programming various things. For example, they have two completely > different Windows developer kits for programmers. If i want to write > something for Mac, and it is a graphical application, I need to use > Cocoa which is Mac's special graphical user interface. If I want to > design a similar application for Linux I will have to use GTK+ which is > the accessible graphical user interface developers kit for Linux. > So there is nothing simple here about doing this. There is allot of > differences between operating systems that would need solved, and I > suppose I could build the application in separate parts that could be > assembled based on os. Here is platform independant game core, here is > platform specific user interface, bla. Lots and lots to think about. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ NOD32 2761 (20080102) Information __ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > __ NOD32 2761 (20080102) Information __ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi, Quote hmm one wild idea I can think of is maybe 3 different versions of raceway. I mean really 3 different version, wouldn't it rock having to code all that? End quote Not hardly. Parish the thought. It is bad enough writing one version let alone three completely new versions from scratch. Quote although ya know, aren't lenux and max almost the same opporating system as in mac is bassed off lenux? End quote That isn't true. Mac OS X is based off the BSD kernel and operating system not Linux. Not only that they use completely different APIs for programming various things. For example, they have two completely different Windows developer kits for programmers. If i want to write something for Mac, and it is a graphical application, I need to use Cocoa which is Mac's special graphical user interface. If I want to design a similar application for Linux I will have to use GTK+ which is the accessible graphical user interface developers kit for Linux. So there is nothing simple here about doing this. There is allot of differences between operating systems that would need solved, and I suppose I could build the application in separate parts that could be assembled based on os. Here is platform independant game core, here is platform specific user interface, bla. Lots and lots to think about. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Willem and all, Quote I'm not against cross platform games, but there sure are a lot of drawbacks. End quote Yes. There are certainly complications in attempting to support multiple operating systems. Part of the problem is a lack of standards for Mac, Windows, and Linux that can be shared among the operating systems. That said, I still think it is possible if the right development APIs and languages are used. Quote I think you should only do it if cross platform technology, like speach is better developed. End quote Well, I think you might have misread what I was attempting to say. There are very good speech engines for Mac and Linux that are nearly as good as those for Windows. The problem is no standardised way of comunicating with them across platforms. If you want to use Cepstral for Linux you need to access it via Gnome-Speech which is totally different from the way you would comunicate with Cepstral for Windows which can be accessed via MS Sapi 5. The only engine that is standardised on Mac, Linux, and Windows is FreeTTS which isn't as good quality. It can be improved by using MBrola, but there is extra licenses involved in doing that. quote I'm also not sure about this, but isn't all linux software supposed to be freeware? end quote Not true. The only time freeware applies if the application is to be included in the core Linux operating system install. Any application, driver, etc that is going to be included with the core Linux os has to be freeware, but third party applications such as games, media players, office sweits, etc can be free or commercial. For example, three accessibility programs for Linux that are commercial are Dectalk Access, Cepstral TTS, and Eloquence for Linux. The Sun StarOffice 8 sweit and Nero Burning Rom 3 is also commercial. My point being is that there are commercial applications for Linux, and there is no reason to avoid developing applications for Linux do to some fear of having to restrict yourself to freeware. Cheers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi, Quote also isn't it posible for people using other opperating systems to run windows emilators and play the games like that? End quote Yes and no. There are Windows emulators out there for Mac and Linux, but they aren't exactly as good as running the application natively on the operating system. At one time I managed to get GMA Tank Commander going under Linux using wine, but the process was extremely complicated, and I don't expect the average computer user would ever get that going. To top it off because Windows emulation is a hack at best GTC, SOD, and other games I tried didn't perform all that well outside the Windows native environment though it could be done if you are bound and determined to force the issue. Finally, some emulators such as wine require you install at least a portion of MS Windows anyway so what is the point of running Linux if you have to install a virtual machine with Windows. My hopes were to avoid all that mess and just offer a dpkg package or rpm of the game and have it install natively to a Linux system without having to download allot of extras or run clunky emulators which would devalue the game for true Linux users. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Thomas, in Audio Quake, Perl is used to interface with mssapi and from what I can tell, it seems to be really just a matter of reading material that is already printed within the game, rather than creating a new form of speech output that wasn't previously there. The output is just sent to mssapi from plain text strings from within the game. I say this to segue into the Mac side of things, in that VoiceOver does really well with plain text as well, and I'm assuming that linux screen readers would too?... So you might be able to output plain text via Perl methods and then simply let the individual tts software already on each system render it itself?... -My point being that Perl might be a good solution all around for a tts interface and might only involve very limited alteration for each OS?... In Quake, though the main menus which were added only to the Audio version don't speak as well as they could for now, (these will be fixed) The speech output from within the game itself is phenomenal especially considering the speed at which the game play happens. Have you gotten hold of the source code for AQ? -am assuming you have... It might be something worth looking into... I think if you can solve that, then that's easily one of the more important issues in my opinion. As for force feedback / alternate game controllers, though I really use a lappy pretty much all the time, for games etc. without any alternate controllers, I'd still hate to see that feature be lost to new games as it would really be taking a major step backward in technology and playability... Is DX currently the only set of libraries that support force feedback in such a readily usable way?... Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 1, 2008, at 10:15 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hello gamers, > For about a month or so I have been doing research for USA Games on > how > to expand our future titles to target Mac, Linux, and Windows > operating > systems all at the same time. While my research isn't complete I do > have > some options on how I might actually target all three major operating > systems at once. If research is successful I would like to convert all > of the existing Raceway code over to a non-Windows specific language > so > I can support Mac, Linux, and Windows all at the same time. There are > advantages and disadvantages to doing this which I would like to point > out below. > The obvious major advantage would be that no longer would a gamer have > to be running Windows x to play accessible games like Raceway. Weather > you use Mac, Linux, or Windows as your favorite os of choice you can > play Raceway and future USA Games titles using the same technology. > IN addition operating systems such as Linux with little to no high > quality accessible games would be an equally powerful accessible > gaming > platform. Since Linux OS is free and my games are pretty cheap by most > currancy standards it would save gamers money if they chose it as > their > gaming platform. > One other advantage of going multiplatform in general that I think > would > be good for this comunity is platform independant networked games. > Everyone who plays Rail Racer says that the online racing aspect is > the > high point of the game. Now, imagine taking that idea, build it using > Java's excelant platform independant networking API, and play against > blind players on any operating system out there. You might be running > Windows Vista while the guy you are racing against is on Linux or Mac. > However, there are a few pit falls and disadvantages I'd like to > mention > which I think should be addressed here. > First, to insure maximum platform independence I would not likely be > using DirectX as the multimedia API of choice. As a result some of the > features of Raceway that were promised like force feedback stearing > wheels, would have to be dropped in favor of using more generic and > universal input devices like mice and keyboards with universal > keyboard > standards. This won't likely go down well with Raceway fans hoping for > these features. > Second, is the question of speech output. Every operating system has > its > own unique way of presenting text to speech. For Windows it is done > through Microsoft Speech API 5 and on say Linux the Gnome-Speech API > handles things like tts for applications. Obviously, making specific > wrappers for each > operating systems tts is time consuming and difficult. The more > logical > thing would be to use wav samples of speech like many other accessible > games do That would be platform independant, but increase the size of > the games quite a bit, and could cutdown performence. > One option I have if I pick Java is include the Free TTS engine in > with > my games. The problem with that approach is that the voice is very > robotic and sounds like Robby the Robot on crack. Though, it would > offer the possability to create built in chat cli
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Corry and all, Unfortunately, adding Windows specific features in the Windows version and cutting them out for other operating systems is rather a painful and time consuming process. Kind of defeats making it cross platform considering the work involved trying to support multiple game APIs. Every operating system has its own way of doing things for tts, keyboard input, mouse input, etc for games. The way to avoid that is by using an open source cross platform API like SDL, OpenAL, etc which has been created by the developers for this very specific purpose to make games on multiple operating systems. However, APIs like SDL is not exactly as full featured as DirectX, but can be used by C++ and Python developers to achieve cross platform games. In addition to what I said above some languages like Java have no support for joystick and force feedback devices. Java can render the 3D audio, support keyboard and mouse input, etc but there will be afew Windows specific features that would not work under Java, and requires a language like C++ or Python to support. Cory wrote: > Hi > I believe that you are rite about race way. Maybe you could leave those > features in the windows baced version and then cut what needs to be cut out > for macks and other oss. But then again, people would buy only the windows > baced version just to get those features. Hm. Will take a lot of > thinkin. I'm sure you'll do the rite thing in the long run. Good luck! > Cory > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi Tom, You've probably already thought of this, but I wanted to point it out. This is probably not the best forum for getting this kind of feedback. I'm pretty confident that the vast majority of the users on this list are Windows users, because accessible games are so scarce for Mac and Linux at this point. I know that there are quite a few blind Mac users in the Mac community of visually impaired users who definitely want games, but most of them are not here on this list. Draconis Entertainment [EMAIL PROTECTED] Draconis Entertainment "Feel the power...wield the magic..." http://www.DraconisEntertainment.com http://www.DracoEnt.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
hi would you be willing to have mac and linnux testers to help you test pre-beta releases, to make sure it all works as you expect? thanks, will i of course would love raceway on the mac tombraider, etc. however, i do understand the steering wheel issue On 2 Jan 2008, at 16:22, Mike Reiser wrote: > > Thomas Ward wrote: >> Hello gamers, >> For about a month or so I have been doing research for USA Games on >> how >> to expand our future titles to target Mac, Linux, and Windows >> operating >> systems all at the same time. While my research isn't complete I do >> have >> some options on how I might actually target all three major operating >> systems at once. If research is successful I would like to convert >> all >> of the existing Raceway code over to a non-Windows specific >> language so >> I can support Mac, Linux, and Windows all at the same time. There are >> advantages and disadvantages to doing this which I would like to >> point >> out below. >> The obvious major advantage would be that no longer would a gamer >> have >> to be running Windows x to play accessible games like Raceway. >> Weather >> you use Mac, Linux, or Windows as your favorite os of choice you can >> play Raceway and future USA Games titles using the same technology. >> IN addition operating systems such as Linux with little to no high >> quality accessible games would be an equally powerful accessible >> gaming >> platform. Since Linux OS is free and my games are pretty cheap by >> most >> currancy standards it would save gamers money if they chose it as >> their >> gaming platform. >> One other advantage of going multiplatform in general that I think >> would >> be good for this comunity is platform independant networked games. >> Everyone who plays Rail Racer says that the online racing aspect is >> the >> high point of the game. Now, imagine taking that idea, build it using >> Java's excelant platform independant networking API, and play against >> blind players on any operating system out there. You might be running >> Windows Vista while the guy you are racing against is on Linux or >> Mac. >> However, there are a few pit falls and disadvantages I'd like to >> mention >> which I think should be addressed here. >> First, to insure maximum platform independence I would not likely be >> using DirectX as the multimedia API of choice. As a result some of >> the >> features of Raceway that were promised like force feedback stearing >> wheels, would have to be dropped in favor of using more generic and >> universal input devices like mice and keyboards with universal >> keyboard >> standards. This won't likely go down well with Raceway fans hoping >> for >> these features. >> Second, is the question of speech output. Every operating system >> has its >> own unique way of presenting text to speech. For Windows it is done >> through Microsoft Speech API 5 and on say Linux the Gnome-Speech API >> handles things like tts for applications. Obviously, making specific >> wrappers for each >> operating systems tts is time consuming and difficult. The more >> logical >> thing would be to use wav samples of speech like many other >> accessible >> games do That would be platform independant, but increase the size of >> the games quite a bit, and could cutdown performence. >> One option I have if I pick Java is include the Free TTS engine in >> with >> my games. The problem with that approach is that the voice is very >> robotic and sounds like Robby the Robot on crack. Though, it would >> offer the possability to create built in chat clients and other >> platform >> independant gaming tools that requires a tts engine. >> One thing about Raceway that bothers me is the custom driver feature. >> While it is no sweat to have a language like Java read a list of >> custom >> drivers from an xml file it wouldn't work if all the voice clips >> are wav >> files. To pull that off you need something like Gnome-Speech, Sapi, >> etc >> to read any updates or changes to the game made outside the factory >> defaults. Either that or Free TTS which sounds terrible. in the end I >> might have to cut out that feature which some customers might not >> like >> as well. >> As a developer I am really torn by what I want to do, and what is >> good >> for the game. I know many of you had requested features, suggestions, >> etc that if I stick with Windows is all very possible. However, I've >> been on the orca mailing list for Linux, seen recent Mac posts on >> this >> list, and I can clearly see that multiplatform games are beginning >> to be >> in demand. I think it is time that accesible game developers begin >> thinking about the possability of making games truly accessible to >> all. >> Rather than just an elite group of Windows users. >> How would you feel about games like USA Raceway, STFC, etc going >> multiplatform? Since STFC 2.0 is still in early production I should >> have >> no issu
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Claudio, I also thought your message was a little um strong worded. - Original Message - From: "Robin Kipp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > Hello Claudio, > No, Thomas is by no means James North. When James North decided to stop > developing games, Tom was kind enough to take them over and finish them > all by himself. What James North did before, e.g. allowing preorders to > soon is not Tom's fault. He can release the game whenever he wants, no > matter if it's 2008, 9, 10, 11 and so on. You know, writing audio games > isn't how Tom earns all the money that he and his family need. He has to > do other things like meet friends, work, etc. And you know, it's really > awesome that Tom wants to get into another programming language to allow > cross platform compatibility, not every developer would do that. The > thing is that MAC already has an included screen reader and also Linux > can be downloaded for free with speech. Because of that, I think we will > see more and more blind comp users switching to MAC or Linux because you > don't have to buy an expensive screen reader like Jaws. Also, the fact > that you can install MAC and Linux completely without sighted help makes > it even more interesting. So instead of just using his current > programming language C-Sharp he decided to go and learn a new > programming language which is really great because it really isn't easy > to learn a new programming language at first. So maybe it'll take a bit > longer until the game is ready, but in the end we will have a game that > runs on Windows, MAC and Linux!!! > Well, that were my thoughts on that topic and Claudio, I'd really like > you to consider such things before posting messages like the last one to > the list or any other list. Thanks! > Robin > >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Claudio >> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:11 PM >> To: 'Gamers Discussion list' >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? >> >> >> Hello Thomas! >> I don't understand why do you wand make a version for mac and >> linux. Thomas, you are now james nord and your job is to >> complete raceway!!! There several people here who have >> orderet the game a 3 years ago and you? You relax and say: >> "Yes, i have all time of my life! I make a mac and linux >> version!" Oh man boy! If you looking for a new language, you >> lost time! And the game? The game will bee ready in 2009 or >> 10!!! Your job is to complete the game not to experiment >> with it!! If you develop raceway Thomas, you aren't >> Thomas you are James Nord!!! And James Nord have shipped the >> Keys and now you have the job to complete the game. If the >> game is ready for release, you can doo anywere but not now!!! >> You haven't the time for experiment with the game!!! Regards, Claudio. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or >> update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_au> dyssey.org. >> All >> messages are archived and can be searched >> and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the >> management of the list, please send E-mail to >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Thomas Ward wrote: > Hello gamers, > For about a month or so I have been doing research for USA Games on how > to expand our future titles to target Mac, Linux, and Windows operating > systems all at the same time. While my research isn't complete I do have > some options on how I might actually target all three major operating > systems at once. If research is successful I would like to convert all > of the existing Raceway code over to a non-Windows specific language so > I can support Mac, Linux, and Windows all at the same time. There are > advantages and disadvantages to doing this which I would like to point > out below. > The obvious major advantage would be that no longer would a gamer have > to be running Windows x to play accessible games like Raceway. Weather > you use Mac, Linux, or Windows as your favorite os of choice you can > play Raceway and future USA Games titles using the same technology. > IN addition operating systems such as Linux with little to no high > quality accessible games would be an equally powerful accessible gaming > platform. Since Linux OS is free and my games are pretty cheap by most > currancy standards it would save gamers money if they chose it as their > gaming platform. > One other advantage of going multiplatform in general that I think would > be good for this comunity is platform independant networked games. > Everyone who plays Rail Racer says that the online racing aspect is the > high point of the game. Now, imagine taking that idea, build it using > Java's excelant platform independant networking API, and play against > blind players on any operating system out there. You might be running > Windows Vista while the guy you are racing against is on Linux or Mac. > However, there are a few pit falls and disadvantages I'd like to mention > which I think should be addressed here. > First, to insure maximum platform independence I would not likely be > using DirectX as the multimedia API of choice. As a result some of the > features of Raceway that were promised like force feedback stearing > wheels, would have to be dropped in favor of using more generic and > universal input devices like mice and keyboards with universal keyboard > standards. This won't likely go down well with Raceway fans hoping for > these features. > Second, is the question of speech output. Every operating system has its > own unique way of presenting text to speech. For Windows it is done > through Microsoft Speech API 5 and on say Linux the Gnome-Speech API > handles things like tts for applications. Obviously, making specific > wrappers for each > operating systems tts is time consuming and difficult. The more logical > thing would be to use wav samples of speech like many other accessible > games do That would be platform independant, but increase the size of > the games quite a bit, and could cutdown performence. > One option I have if I pick Java is include the Free TTS engine in with > my games. The problem with that approach is that the voice is very > robotic and sounds like Robby the Robot on crack. Though, it would > offer the possability to create built in chat clients and other platform > independant gaming tools that requires a tts engine. > One thing about Raceway that bothers me is the custom driver feature. > While it is no sweat to have a language like Java read a list of custom > drivers from an xml file it wouldn't work if all the voice clips are wav > files. To pull that off you need something like Gnome-Speech, Sapi, etc > to read any updates or changes to the game made outside the factory > defaults. Either that or Free TTS which sounds terrible. in the end I > might have to cut out that feature which some customers might not like > as well. > As a developer I am really torn by what I want to do, and what is good > for the game. I know many of you had requested features, suggestions, > etc that if I stick with Windows is all very possible. However, I've > been on the orca mailing list for Linux, seen recent Mac posts on this > list, and I can clearly see that multiplatform games are beginning to be > in demand. I think it is time that accesible game developers begin > thinking about the possability of making games truly accessible to all. > Rather than just an elite group of Windows users. > How would you feel about games like USA Raceway, STFC, etc going > multiplatform? Since STFC 2.0 is still in early production I should have > no issues converting the existing code to Java, Python, or something > else once I decide on what I need to do to make all this happen. Raceway > is obviously further along, but the basic logic is done, and just needs > converted from C-Sharp to whatever language I choose so no big deal > there. Just will take a month or two extra to convert and test what I > have written already. > I am looking forward to any thoughts, comments, or suggestions you have > about this possability
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hello Claudio, No, Thomas is by no means James North. When James North decided to stop developing games, Tom was kind enough to take them over and finish them all by himself. What James North did before, e.g. allowing preorders to soon is not Tom's fault. He can release the game whenever he wants, no matter if it's 2008, 9, 10, 11 and so on. You know, writing audio games isn't how Tom earns all the money that he and his family need. He has to do other things like meet friends, work, etc. And you know, it's really awesome that Tom wants to get into another programming language to allow cross platform compatibility, not every developer would do that. The thing is that MAC already has an included screen reader and also Linux can be downloaded for free with speech. Because of that, I think we will see more and more blind comp users switching to MAC or Linux because you don't have to buy an expensive screen reader like Jaws. Also, the fact that you can install MAC and Linux completely without sighted help makes it even more interesting. So instead of just using his current programming language C-Sharp he decided to go and learn a new programming language which is really great because it really isn't easy to learn a new programming language at first. So maybe it'll take a bit longer until the game is ready, but in the end we will have a game that runs on Windows, MAC and Linux!!! Well, that were my thoughts on that topic and Claudio, I'd really like you to consider such things before posting messages like the last one to the list or any other list. Thanks! Robin > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Claudio > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:11 PM > To: 'Gamers Discussion list' > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > > > Hello Thomas! > I don't understand why do you wand make a version for mac and > linux. Thomas, you are now james nord and your job is to > complete raceway!!! There several people here who have > orderet the game a 3 years ago and you? You relax and say: > "Yes, i have all time of my life! I make a mac and linux > version!" Oh man boy! If you looking for a new language, you > lost time! And the game? The game will bee ready in 2009 or > 10!!! Your job is to complete the game not to experiment > with it!! If you develop raceway Thomas, you aren't > Thomas you are James Nord!!! And James Nord have shipped the > Keys and now you have the job to complete the game. If the > game is ready for release, you can doo anywere but not now!!! > You haven't the time for experiment with the game!!! Regards, Claudio. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or > update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_au> dyssey.org. > All > messages are archived and can be searched > and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the > management of the list, please send E-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hello Thomas! I don't understand why do you wand make a version for mac and linux. Thomas, you are now james nord and your job is to complete raceway!!! There several people here who have orderet the game a 3 years ago and you? You relax and say: "Yes, i have all time of my life! I make a mac and linux version!" Oh man boy! If you looking for a new language, you lost time! And the game? The game will bee ready in 2009 or 10!!! Your job is to complete the game not to experiment with it!! If you develop raceway Thomas, you aren't Thomas you are James Nord!!! And James Nord have shipped the Keys and now you have the job to complete the game. If the game is ready for release, you can doo anywere but not now!!! You haven't the time for experiment with the game!!! Regards, Claudio. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
hmm one wild idea I can think of is maybe 3 different versions of raceway. I mean really 3 different version, wouldn't it rock having to code all that? haha. but one is for windows, and the other is for max, and the last for lenix, although ya know, aren't lenix and max almost the same opporating system as in mac is bassed off lenix? So wonder if you could use just two versions, one works with both lenix and mac. - Original Message - From: "Willem" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:18 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > also isn't it posible for people using other opperating systems to run > windows emilators and play the games like that? > - Original Message - > From: "Thomas Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:15 AM > Subject: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > > >> Hello gamers, >> For about a month or so I have been doing research for USA Games on how >> to expand our future titles to target Mac, Linux, and Windows operating >> systems all at the same time. While my research isn't complete I do have >> some options on how I might actually target all three major operating >> systems at once. If research is successful I would like to convert all >> of the existing Raceway code over to a non-Windows specific language so >> I can support Mac, Linux, and Windows all at the same time. There are >> advantages and disadvantages to doing this which I would like to point >> out below. >> The obvious major advantage would be that no longer would a gamer have >> to be running Windows x to play accessible games like Raceway. Weather >> you use Mac, Linux, or Windows as your favorite os of choice you can >> play Raceway and future USA Games titles using the same technology. >> IN addition operating systems such as Linux with little to no high >> quality accessible games would be an equally powerful accessible gaming >> platform. Since Linux OS is free and my games are pretty cheap by most >> currancy standards it would save gamers money if they chose it as their >> gaming platform. >> One other advantage of going multiplatform in general that I think would >> be good for this comunity is platform independant networked games. >> Everyone who plays Rail Racer says that the online racing aspect is the >> high point of the game. Now, imagine taking that idea, build it using >> Java's excelant platform independant networking API, and play against >> blind players on any operating system out there. You might be running >> Windows Vista while the guy you are racing against is on Linux or Mac. >> However, there are a few pit falls and disadvantages I'd like to mention >> which I think should be addressed here. >> First, to insure maximum platform independence I would not likely be >> using DirectX as the multimedia API of choice. As a result some of the >> features of Raceway that were promised like force feedback stearing >> wheels, would have to be dropped in favor of using more generic and >> universal input devices like mice and keyboards with universal keyboard >> standards. This won't likely go down well with Raceway fans hoping for >> these features. >> Second, is the question of speech output. Every operating system has its >> own unique way of presenting text to speech. For Windows it is done >> through Microsoft Speech API 5 and on say Linux the Gnome-Speech API >> handles things like tts for applications. Obviously, making specific >> wrappers for each >> operating systems tts is time consuming and difficult. The more logical >> thing would be to use wav samples of speech like many other accessible >> games do That would be platform independant, but increase the size of >> the games quite a bit, and could cutdown performence. >> One option I have if I pick Java is include the Free TTS engine in with >> my games. The problem with that approach is that the voice is very >> robotic and sounds like Robby the Robot on crack. Though, it would >> offer the possability to create built in chat clients and other platform >> independant gaming tools that requires a tts engine. >> One thing about Raceway that bothers me is the custom driver feature. >> While it is no sweat to have a language like Java read a list of custom >> drivers from an xml file it wouldn't work if all the voice clips are wav >> files. To pull that off you need something like Gnome-Speech, Sapi, etc >> to read any updates or changes to the game made outside the factory >> defaults.
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
also isn't it posible for people using other opperating systems to run windows emilators and play the games like that? - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:15 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > Hello gamers, > For about a month or so I have been doing research for USA Games on how > to expand our future titles to target Mac, Linux, and Windows operating > systems all at the same time. While my research isn't complete I do have > some options on how I might actually target all three major operating > systems at once. If research is successful I would like to convert all > of the existing Raceway code over to a non-Windows specific language so > I can support Mac, Linux, and Windows all at the same time. There are > advantages and disadvantages to doing this which I would like to point > out below. > The obvious major advantage would be that no longer would a gamer have > to be running Windows x to play accessible games like Raceway. Weather > you use Mac, Linux, or Windows as your favorite os of choice you can > play Raceway and future USA Games titles using the same technology. > IN addition operating systems such as Linux with little to no high > quality accessible games would be an equally powerful accessible gaming > platform. Since Linux OS is free and my games are pretty cheap by most > currancy standards it would save gamers money if they chose it as their > gaming platform. > One other advantage of going multiplatform in general that I think would > be good for this comunity is platform independant networked games. > Everyone who plays Rail Racer says that the online racing aspect is the > high point of the game. Now, imagine taking that idea, build it using > Java's excelant platform independant networking API, and play against > blind players on any operating system out there. You might be running > Windows Vista while the guy you are racing against is on Linux or Mac. > However, there are a few pit falls and disadvantages I'd like to mention > which I think should be addressed here. > First, to insure maximum platform independence I would not likely be > using DirectX as the multimedia API of choice. As a result some of the > features of Raceway that were promised like force feedback stearing > wheels, would have to be dropped in favor of using more generic and > universal input devices like mice and keyboards with universal keyboard > standards. This won't likely go down well with Raceway fans hoping for > these features. > Second, is the question of speech output. Every operating system has its > own unique way of presenting text to speech. For Windows it is done > through Microsoft Speech API 5 and on say Linux the Gnome-Speech API > handles things like tts for applications. Obviously, making specific > wrappers for each > operating systems tts is time consuming and difficult. The more logical > thing would be to use wav samples of speech like many other accessible > games do That would be platform independant, but increase the size of > the games quite a bit, and could cutdown performence. > One option I have if I pick Java is include the Free TTS engine in with > my games. The problem with that approach is that the voice is very > robotic and sounds like Robby the Robot on crack. Though, it would > offer the possability to create built in chat clients and other platform > independant gaming tools that requires a tts engine. > One thing about Raceway that bothers me is the custom driver feature. > While it is no sweat to have a language like Java read a list of custom > drivers from an xml file it wouldn't work if all the voice clips are wav > files. To pull that off you need something like Gnome-Speech, Sapi, etc > to read any updates or changes to the game made outside the factory > defaults. Either that or Free TTS which sounds terrible. in the end I > might have to cut out that feature which some customers might not like > as well. > As a developer I am really torn by what I want to do, and what is good > for the game. I know many of you had requested features, suggestions, > etc that if I stick with Windows is all very possible. However, I've > been on the orca mailing list for Linux, seen recent Mac posts on this > list, and I can clearly see that multiplatform games are beginning to be > in demand. I think it is time that accesible game developers begin > thinking about the possability of making games truly accessible to all. > Rather than just an elite group of Windows users. > How would you feel about games like USA Raceway, STFC, etc going > multiplatform? Since STFC 2.0 is still in early production I should have > no issues converting the existing code to Java, Python, or something > else once I decide on what I need to do to make all this happen. Raceway > is obviously further along, but the basic logic is done, and just needs > converted from C-Sharp to whatever language I choose so no
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Well it sounds nice, but there will be a lot of features lost. I'm not against cross platform games, but there sure are a lot of drawbacks. I think you should only do it if cross platform technology, like speach is better developed. I'm also not sure about this, but isn't all linex software supposed to be freeware? - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:15 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > Hello gamers, > For about a month or so I have been doing research for USA Games on how > to expand our future titles to target Mac, Linux, and Windows operating > systems all at the same time. While my research isn't complete I do have > some options on how I might actually target all three major operating > systems at once. If research is successful I would like to convert all > of the existing Raceway code over to a non-Windows specific language so > I can support Mac, Linux, and Windows all at the same time. There are > advantages and disadvantages to doing this which I would like to point > out below. > The obvious major advantage would be that no longer would a gamer have > to be running Windows x to play accessible games like Raceway. Weather > you use Mac, Linux, or Windows as your favorite os of choice you can > play Raceway and future USA Games titles using the same technology. > IN addition operating systems such as Linux with little to no high > quality accessible games would be an equally powerful accessible gaming > platform. Since Linux OS is free and my games are pretty cheap by most > currancy standards it would save gamers money if they chose it as their > gaming platform. > One other advantage of going multiplatform in general that I think would > be good for this comunity is platform independant networked games. > Everyone who plays Rail Racer says that the online racing aspect is the > high point of the game. Now, imagine taking that idea, build it using > Java's excelant platform independant networking API, and play against > blind players on any operating system out there. You might be running > Windows Vista while the guy you are racing against is on Linux or Mac. > However, there are a few pit falls and disadvantages I'd like to mention > which I think should be addressed here. > First, to insure maximum platform independence I would not likely be > using DirectX as the multimedia API of choice. As a result some of the > features of Raceway that were promised like force feedback stearing > wheels, would have to be dropped in favor of using more generic and > universal input devices like mice and keyboards with universal keyboard > standards. This won't likely go down well with Raceway fans hoping for > these features. > Second, is the question of speech output. Every operating system has its > own unique way of presenting text to speech. For Windows it is done > through Microsoft Speech API 5 and on say Linux the Gnome-Speech API > handles things like tts for applications. Obviously, making specific > wrappers for each > operating systems tts is time consuming and difficult. The more logical > thing would be to use wav samples of speech like many other accessible > games do That would be platform independant, but increase the size of > the games quite a bit, and could cutdown performence. > One option I have if I pick Java is include the Free TTS engine in with > my games. The problem with that approach is that the voice is very > robotic and sounds like Robby the Robot on crack. Though, it would > offer the possability to create built in chat clients and other platform > independant gaming tools that requires a tts engine. > One thing about Raceway that bothers me is the custom driver feature. > While it is no sweat to have a language like Java read a list of custom > drivers from an xml file it wouldn't work if all the voice clips are wav > files. To pull that off you need something like Gnome-Speech, Sapi, etc > to read any updates or changes to the game made outside the factory > defaults. Either that or Free TTS which sounds terrible. in the end I > might have to cut out that feature which some customers might not like > as well. > As a developer I am really torn by what I want to do, and what is good > for the game. I know many of you had requested features, suggestions, > etc that if I stick with Windows is all very possible. However, I've > been on the orca mailing list for Linux, seen recent Mac posts on this > list, and I can clearly see that multiplatform games are beginning to be > in demand. I think it is time that accesible game developers begin > thinking about the possability of making games truly accessible to all. > Rather than just an elite group of Windows users. > How would you feel about games like USA Raceway, STFC, etc going > multiplatform? Since STFC 2.0 is still in early production I should have > no issues converting the existing code to Java, Python, or something > else onc
Re: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux?
Hi I believe that you are rite about race way. Maybe you could leave those features in the windows baced version and then cut what needs to be cut out for macks and other oss. But then again, people would buy only the windows baced version just to get those features. Hm. Will take a lot of thinkin. I'm sure you'll do the rite thing in the long run. Good luck! Cory - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:15 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Raceway for Mac or Linux? > Hello gamers, > Forout a month or so I have been doing research for USA Games on how > to expand our future titles to target Mac, Linux, and Windows operating > systems all at the same time. While my research isn't complete I do have > some options on how I might actually target all three major operating > systems at once. If research is successful I would like to convert all > of the existing Raceway code over to a non-Windows specific language so > I can support Mac, Linux, and Windows all at the same time. There are > advantages and disadvantages to doing this which I would like to point > out below. > The obvious major advantage would be that no longer would a gamer have > to be running Windows x to play accessible games like Raceway. Weather > you use Mac, Linux, or Windows as your favorite os of choice you can > play Raceway and future USA Games titles using the same technology. > IN addition operating systems such as Linux with little to no high > quality accessible games would be an equally powerful accessible gaming > platform. Since Linux OS is free and my games are pretty cheap by most > currancy standards it would save gamers money if they chose it as their > gaming platform. > One other advantage of going multiplatform in general that I think would > be good for this comunity is platform independant networked games. > Everyone who plays Rail Racer says that the online racing aspect is the > high point of the game. Now, imagine taking that idea, build it using > Java's excelant platform independant networking API, and play against > blind players on any operating system out there. You might be running > Windows Vista while the guy you are racing against is on Linux or Mac. > However, there are a few pit falls and disadvantages I'd like to mention > which I think should be addressed here. > First, to insure maximum platform independence I would not likely be > using DirectX as the multimedia API of choice. As a result some of the > features of Raceway that were promised like force feedback stearing > wheels, would have to be dropped in favor of using more generic and > universal input devices like mice and keyboards with universal keyboard > standards. This won't likely go down well with Raceway fans hoping for > these features. > Second, is the question of speech output. Every operating system has its > own unique way of presenting text to speech. For Windows it is done > through Microsoft Speech API 5 and on say Linux the Gnome-Speech API > handles things like tts for applications. Obviously, making specific > wrappers for each > operating systems tts is time consuming and difficult. The more logical > thing would be to use wav samples of speech like many other accessible > games do That would be platform independant, but increase the size of > the games quite a bit, and could cutdown performence. > One option I have if I pick Java is include the Free TTS engine in with > my games. The problem with that approach is that the voice is very > robotic and sounds like Robby the Robot on crack. Though, it would > offer the possability to create built in chat clients and other platform > independant gaming tools that requires a tts engine. > One thing about Raceway that bothers me is the custom driver feature. > While it is no sweat to have a language like Java read a list of custom > drivers from an xml file it wouldn't work if all the voice clips are wav > files. To pull that off you need something like Gnome-Speech, Sapi, etc > to read any updates or changes to the game made outside the factory > defaults. Either that or Free TTS which sounds terrible. in the end I > might have to cut out that feature which some customers might not like > as well. > As a developer I am really torn by what I want to do, and what is good > for the game. I know many of you had requested features, suggestions, > etc that if I stick with Windows is all very possible. However, I've > been on the orca mailing list for Linux, seen recent Mac posts on this > list, and I can clearly see that multiplatform games are beginning to be > in demand. I think it is time that accesible game developers begin > thinking about the possability of making games truly accessible to all. > Rather than just an elite group of Windows users. > How would you feel about games like USA Raceway, STFC, etc going > multiplatform? Since STFC 2.0 is still in early production I should have > no issues converting the ex
