Re: gEDA-user: Combining polygons
With all this in mind, is there a way to select a group of polygons, lines, etc... and lock them all at once? I can't seem to find anything in the documentation, although I have a feeling that there's probably something along the lines of lock(selectedpolys) available from the command line. Thanks, Jeremy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Combining polygons
The polygon is cut into many polygons, such that there are no holes that need to be erased. So some of your polygons overlap? I'm probably making a bigger deal out of this than I need to: I just have this board that I helped redesign in PCB, and I want to make sure it's right before I get it printed (so I can test it). Thanks, Jeremy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Combining polygons
Hello all, Earlier this week, I posted a message asking how I could combine several polygons in the ground plane into one larger polygon. I have heard nothing back since I've posted, even though the list has been busy this week. If my question is a stupid one, I wish someone would tell me why. Many CAD packages allow you to combine shapes, so I am simply wondering if there is a way to do this in PCB. I quote my original e-mail below: Hello all, I created a PCB layout about a month ago and built the ground plane from rectangles, irregularly shaped polygons, and a few lines. All of these are in the solder layer, but they area all separate from one another. Ideally, I would like to merge them into one single piece, because this keeps me from accidentally dragging polygons out of place and the like, and it would make my layout that much cleaner. I have looked in the documentation, but I can't find anything relevant. Does anyone know of a way to combine these different objects into one large piece? Thanks, Jeremy Thanks much, Jeremy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Combining polygons
The answer is: it depends upon what you want to do. Do you want a group operation, so that you can select a bunch of individual polys, and create a logical grouping of them so they all become part of a larger group which you can select and move? That's exactly it. I can certainly understand why that would take some time to write though. The only programming language I can really claim to have even half a year's worth of experience with is DOS assembly, so I've no idea how you've even managed to write something as cool as gEDA. :-) In the meantime, I suppose I'll lock them in place (thanks, Steven) so I don't accidentally move them. This brings up another question: when I generate Gerber files, what becomes of these separate polygons? Are they all represented in the Gerber files as individual objects? Or are they all morphed into one large polygon because they all simply represent an area covered with something (copper, ink, etc...)? Thanks all, Jeremy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Using polygons for creating a ground plane by hand
Ok, so the solder mask is a coating, and if I choose I could simply order a board without one. I suppose the advantages would be that it (obviously) keeps you from soldering where you shouldn't, and also keeps the board clean looking and prevents corrosion. And I suppose that since I've already made all of the elements, it wouldn't be too difficult to ensure the spacings between the pins and then make them into elements. If it's the lesstif version, it's in the Tools menu. In the GTK version, you can use the buttons on the left. Ok. Is it the THRM button? If so, I can't get it to work. I click it, and it gives me a small black symbol resembling Germany's Iron Cross (if you're familiar with that symbol). If I place this over a via and left click, right click, or shift (and left click), nothing happens. I will see if I can find out about this tool in the documentation, but do you have any idea what I might be doing wrong? Thanks, Jeremy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Using polygons for creating a ground plane by hand
Oh, maybe I should clarify: The pcb I am recreating has components with square pads: that is what I am trying to do. I have done this by placing a rectangle around a via in the component layer and also in the solder layer. I am using the component layer as my top layer and the solder layer as my bottom layer. I am then eliminating the clearance between the via and the copper. Is this the wrong way to do this? Also, if I wanted to have this manufactured and I only wanted to pay for a two layer board (after all, the original pcb is only two layers), would I only want to use the component and solder layers for the board? This would mean I would place the bottom-side traces in the groundplane (with some clearance, of course)...is this correct? I am still a little confused. Thanks a lot, Jeremy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Using polygons for creating a ground plane by hand
Use the 'q' key to change pins/pads from round to square and back. Oh okay: thanks. I guess I'd better go ahead and convert all of these vias and my silk layer stuff to elements first. Yup. Okay then. I know what to do about the ground plane now. Thanks much, Jeremy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Using polygons for creating a ground plane by hand
Hello, I'm working on recreating a printed circuit board from a screenshot, and -- having aligned all the vias and traces as closely as I could with the original artwork -- would like to recreate the ground plane by hand. However, I can't seem to keep get polygons to stick, for lack of a better word. Placing a rectangle, I need to click once at the origin, move the mouse to adjust the size of the rectangle, and then left click again. I have a feeling that placing polygons is similarly obvious, but I can't figure it out: after I have created the outline of the polygon, what then? left clicking again obviously starts another line in the polygon, right clicking does nothing, and the middle mouse button zooms out. What am I doing wrong? Also, this is a two layer board: the top layer traces are in the component layer, and the bottom layer traces are in the solder layer. Should I place the ground plane in the solder layer as well? Or should I put it in the GND layer to differentiate it from the traces on the bottom of the board? And one last thing: Some of the vias have rectangular copper bits around them, presumably to catch more solder and create a little heat sink (just a guess: I really don't know). So far, I've just been placing vias and drawing the rectangular copper sections by hand: is there a better way? Thanks much, Jeremy -- Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. (Anonymous) ~*~*~*~*~ * JDP :) * ~*~*~*~*~ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Using polygons for creating a ground plane by hand
Ok, after an astoundingly short (five minute) search, I found the solution to the polygon problem: whoops. RTFM, I suppose. However, my other two questions still stand: Also, this is a two layer board: the top layer traces are in the component layer, and the bottom layer traces are in the solder layer. Should I place the ground plane in the solder layer as well? Or should I put it in the GND layer to differentiate it from the traces on the bottom of the board? And one last thing: Some of the vias have rectangular copper bits around them, presumably to catch more solder and create a little heat sink (just a guess: I really don't know). So far, I've just been placing vias and drawing the rectangular copper sections by hand: is there a better way? Thanks much, Jeremy http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Using polygons for creating a ground plane by hand
Well, technically the almost all the vias are going to have something soldered into them: I had to create all of the elements for the PCB by hand, and instead of creating real elements I just drew outlines in the silk layer and placed vias where pins will go. The documentation says this is a bad idea, but I can't figure out why: you use vias to create elements, right? So why can't you just place vias? They look ok in the PCB and the print ok as well...perhaps I'm missing something? The documentation says that the vias will be covered (except for the hole) by the solder mask, but isn't that something only used in manufacturing? I'm pretty sure my board will print out OK if I'd like to make it at home, but if I send it to a manufacturer, they'll be using a solder mask, right? This is still very confusing: for instance, why does the solder mask not show traces? Now I'm really lost. I'm starting to think perhaps that I used the wrong layers. p.s. F10 just brings up the File menu in my version of PCB, I'll check about thermal reliefs in the documentation Without seeing the copper bits I am guessing that they are there to provide thermal relief around the via. It is probably not necessary unless you are planning to solder something into the via. I believe you can use the thermal command (F10 in my version of PCB) to add a thermal relief to a via. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Printer calibration issue?
Hello, I am trying to redraw the artwork for a 3.1 by 1.65 printed circuit board in PCB. I am using a background image to help with this process, so I scale the size of the board in PCB to 3.1x1.64 (which obviously also scales the background image) and then draw an outline around this picture (in the silk layer). Printing this layer as a test, I found that the printer put out a rectangle that was approximately 2.75x1.51 Is this likely to be printer calibration issue? I also tried printing the outline that PCB automatically puts around the layers (top solder layer, for example): it was the same size (2.75x1.51). Note: I did have to convert the .ps file output by PCB to a pdf before I could print, as the only printer I have available to me is not supported by GNU/Linux or ghostscript, so I was under windows. The printer is a Lexmark z705. I guess what I'm asking is this: would it be safe to start doing the artwork in PCB with the board scaled to 3100x1650mils and then calibrate a better printer later on? I don't want to have to redo the artwork because it was the wrong size. I'm assuming that a lot of work went into making sure that PCB does things at the right size, so hopefully this is a printer issue. Thanks, Jeremy -- Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. (Anonymous) ~*~*~*~*~ * JDP :) * ~*~*~*~*~ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Printer calibration issue?
I used method #1, and I also turned off the auto-scaling option in adobe (whoops). This brings the measurements closer, but I'll need a better printer, a better ruler, and better eyeballs before I can be sure the measurements are just right. To get back to my original question: If I crop the photo of the board as close as I can and set the board measurements to those listed on the website, could I start work on the art now and worry about printouts later? It is all thru-hole components and nothing really smaller than the R025 footprint in PCB. In fact, I'd appreciate it if you would have a look at the page I'm using as a reference, and tell me what you think: perhaps the measurements aren't exact? Oh, and by the way the screenshot I use is actually from ExpressPCB, using the .pcb file available on the site: http://lasertagparts.com/mt5xx.htm Thanks again, Jeremy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Setting the size of the PCB in PCB
Hello, I'm trying to unlock a board that was originally done in ExpressPCB, by recreating it using gEDA. I have already drawn up a schematic of the board using gschem, and I am now trying to re-route things by hand in PCB. The problem is that I have never designed a circuit before, let alone created a PCB, and the developer who created this particular board says the pic18F2525 used in its construction is sensitive to electrical noise (so I won't risk changing the board layout). To solve a few of these problems, I was hoping to recreate the board using a screenshot I took as a background in PCB. However, I can't seem to figure out how to get it to scale properly. I know the board dimensions are 3.1 x1.65, but I can't figure out how to inform PCB of this fact. As a result, my screenshot scales to fit the default pcb size in PCB. If I could get it to scale to the actual board dimensions, it would help me create footprints for a few stray parts, as well as place all the parts and route tracks properly and at the proper widths. I have tried the --default-PCB-width and --default-PCB-height flags to no avail. Perhaps I am missing something. Thanks much, Jeremy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: I need to open and print a PCB created in ExpressPCB:What are my options?
Oh. I didn't even know I could do that. Thanks, I'll try and set that up. On 2/16/07, Mark Rages [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/16/07, Ales Hvezda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok. I will keep those things in mind. p.s. I haven't quite got mailing lists worked out yet, because I've only really ever used forums and IRC channels. Is there some way that I can opt to receive mail only from threads to which I am subscribed? I know that's really a forum thing, so if not, I'll just opt to check the archives every so often instead of receiving mail. Not really, but you could turn on mail list digesting (it's in the mailman web interface), so that you get only get one message per day. This one message includes all the traffic for the list for the day. -Ales Jeremy is using Gmail, so he can do this: 1) set a filter to catch messages with gEDA-user in the subject and archive immediately (bypassing the Inbox). 2) to see threads you have posted in, click Sent Messages. The unread threads are highlighted. 3) to read the list, do a search for gEDA-user. Gmail is excellent for mailing lists. It's even better than NNTP clients. Regards, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You think that it is a secret, but it never has been one. - fortune cookie ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. (Anonymous) ~*~*~*~*~ * JDP :) * ~*~*~*~*~ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New Footprints
Ah great. I need a 3299W in a PCB layout I am trying to copy Thanks, Jeremy On 2/14/07, John Luciani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I added the following footprints to my website --- * Trimpots POT__Bourns_3006P-Series and POT__Bourns_3299W-Series * Molex USB MINI-B connector CON_USB_MINI_B__Molex_67503-1020 N.B. The drawing, SD-67503-010, has two pads with no clearance to the PCB edge. I reduced the length of each of these pads by 25mils and shifted the pad centers to provide 25mils of clearance. The symbol should be placed so that the mark is on the edge of the PCB. The hashed rectangle defines the pattern restricted area. (* jcl *) -- http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. (Anonymous) ~*~*~*~*~ * JDP :) * ~*~*~*~*~ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Drawing a schematic with a single-inline resistornetwork
[jg]The makefile tells you each time in a way that you can copy and paste it to execute it. The makefile spits out versions for bash, csh, etc. The makefile from gEDA/gaf out of CVS does that, but I don't believe the regular old source tarball for gschem does that. Yep. Gentoo uses /etc/ld.so.conf, but I got it taken care of by uninstalling the original version, installing the code from CVS locally, and then exporting a few things in my .bashrc file. On 2/5/07, John Griessen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeremy Pedersen wrote: despite it being installed in both /usr/local/lib and (an older version installed by emerge on my Gentoo Linux machine) in /usr/lib, it still will not compile. Any ideas? What environment variables am I most likely to need to set? [jg]The makefile tells you each time in a way that you can copy and paste it to execute it. The makefile spits out versions for bash, csh, etc. John G PS be sure to uninstall what you had in already, or use --prefix=/opt/geda or some place to put it that is not default, then make ldconfig find it. Does Gentoo use /etc/ld.so.conf? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Drawing a schematic with a single-inline resistor network
Hello, Some of you gave me great advice when I posted an earlier thread about the MilesTag project's PCB's having been drawn in ExpressPCB. Most of you suggested that I should redraw the schematics and boards in gEDA as a learning experience, and I took this advice to heart. While it has been fun so far, I have run into a few issues which are keeping me from getting a good PCB layout. Here are the issues: --- Oh, and for reference, the schematic I am trying to draw can be found on this website on the 22'nd page of the Technical Reference PDF: http://www.lasertagparts.com/mt5xx.htm The largest problem is the subject of this thread: The schematic that I am trying to redraw has a few parts in it whose footprints I am not really sure about. The first is labeled on the original schematic as a SIP Resistor network. I took SIP to mean Single inline package, and I can produce one of those easily with the m4 macros available in gEDA. The problem is in assigning the footprint. I thought if i named all the resistors that are part of this SIP, R3 and assigned a footprint to one of them, then I could treat this the way the slotted Op-amps are treated in the gsch2pcb tutorial. No luck. Then I remembered that those op-amps were slotted, so I added a numslots=5 (the single inline package contains five resistors) statement to the resistor-1.sym file, and slotdef lines for each of those slots. But when I went to assign a slot=1 line to the .sym file, gschem segfaulted! Now, I wasn't terribly surprised, since gschem 20060123 segfaults quite regularly (for no apparent reason) on my machine, but this segfault was reproducible. Any time I try to add a slot attribute to resistor-1.sym (mind you, I copied it somewhere else, so I have the original), gschem has a segmentation fault. The only clue I have about this failure is from gdb, and it isn't a great help since I didn't compile gEDA with debug flags (or whatever it is gdb wants). All I get when the program fails is 0xb7f9a330 in o_attrib_search_numslots () from /usr/lib/libgeda.so.25 and I don't really know how to interpret this. Ideally, I would like to know if there is an easier way to do this. Does anyone know of a way to have a SIP resistor network? I need the whole thing to be named R3 and it can use the SIP m4 macro as its footprint. Also, are there round footprints that indicate polarity that I can use for capacitors? If so, what are they called and how do I call them? Lastly -- and this isn't very important -- the 5.x.x. MilesTag schematic I am trying to draw has a connector which is split on the schematic so that pins 1-4 appear on the left side of the schematic and pins 5 and 6 appear in the middle. It makes the schematic look cleaner and it all has one footprint on the PCB. Is there a way I could do this in gschem? p.s. Every time I move a component in gschem, I have to redraw the wires which connect to it. This is a real hassle to say the least, is there a way I can make wires move with respect to the components they are attached to? Thanks a lot, Jeremy -- Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. (Anonymous) ~*~*~*~*~ * JDP :) * ~*~*~*~*~ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Drawing a schematic with a single-inline resistornetwork
CVS head. Oh. I guess a lot has happened since the release I'm using. I would really like to upgrade to a newer version of gschem at a minimum, but I can't get it to compile. I installed libgeda locally in /usr/local/lib using ./configre, make, make install, but gschem still complains that it can't find libgeda installed, despite it being installed in both /usr/local/lib and (an older version installed by emerge on my Gentoo Linux machine) in /usr/lib, it still will not compile. Any ideas? Perhaps I can tell it explicitly where to find libgeda? That much I know. :-) If I want custom footprints I'll be sure to make 'em. I just wish I could figure out how the heck I can tell how big in mils a component is. I don't know where to find sizes of components (data sheet?), and I also (forgive my stupidity) have no idea what a mil is. I certainly know what a millimeter is, but what on earth is a mil? Thanks, Jeremy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Drawing a schematic with a single-inline resistornetwork
Peter, Ok, that sounds doable. I will check out the latest stuff from CVS and try to compile it. You guys are the greatest. :) Thanks, Jeremy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: I need to open and print a PCB created in ExpressPCB:What are my options?
I understand how you feel, but with these particular guys at least...they're very down-to-earth. Every one of them has shown a real willingness to help people, even newbies, whenever possible. Well that's good. I'll be sure to pay close attention to their suggestions. I've never been a fan of PC hardware (too slow cheap-feeling for my taste) so I don't mess with Linux very much. I'm limited to x86 hardware because its cheap, so it doesn't matter much to me if it feels cheap. As for Linux at 13, I can't say I was a very impressive user. My first memory of running Linux is actually of not running it. I got a kernel panic on the first try because I didn't know about boot loaders or about specifying a root= in grub. I know a bit more now, but I still can't write much more than a basic bash script of a few lines of assembly. And the PDP-11? Wow, I've only ever read about that thing. :-) But I've worked with people who would spend a whole day calculating what I can walk to a bench and measure in seconds. THAT is ridiculous. Yeah. My experience in lab has been that generally the measurements (if taken properly) are more than accurate enough for troubleshooting and adjustments. I'm clumsy though, so the calculations (at least the simple ones) are often faster for me. Breadboarding a full-wave bridge rectifier takes me 10 to 15 minutes, running the calculations can be done in under 2. :-/ One other thing to keep in mind. Hacking on embedded systems will teach you how to write efficient code, and you can take those skills right back to big machines at great benefit. In these days of Windows morons writing simple programs which require hundreds of megabytes of RAM...these guys are not programmers. In the world of embedded systems, in smaller applications one frequently finds oneself writing code to run on a system with a few dozen bytes (yes bytes) of RAM. And they do *real work*. That's for sure. Right now we are learning how to program basic stamp microcontrollers in class, and while I'm not fond of them (they use PBASIC: a proprietary programming language! Can you believe such a thing?) I can see how they require efficiency. I write an 820 byte program for one of these things that would follow a flow chart for troubleshooting diesel engines. It turned out that by shortening some output messages to the debug terminal and eliminating some stray CASE statements, the code could be squeezed into 70 bytes! The guy next to me actually didn't use the debug terminal (which requires a serial port connection to a PC) and managed to get his program into 20 bytes using dip switches for the simple yes/no questions! I am uncomfortable in hardware though, so I wasn't willing to use switches. :-( -- Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. (Anonymous) ~*~*~*~*~ * JDP :) * ~*~*~*~*~ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: I need to open and print a PCB created in ExpressPCB:What are my options?
Levente, I didn't even know such a thing was possible. Whatever the case, I still have to learn how to use gEDA (one of the reasons I started this thread) and learn how to solder normal thru-hole components. This should be useful to me if and when I branch out into SMT components. :-) Thanks, Jeremy On 1/31/07, Levente Kovacs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:45:48 -0500 Jeremy Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So it's possible to hand solder or reflow these things at home? Better yet, Hi Jeremy, If you would like to have a home reflow system, you might want to take a look at this page: http://web.interware.hu/lekovacs/reflow_oven/index.html It's my IR reflow setup. Cheers, Levente ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: I need to open and print a PCB created in ExpressPCB:What are my options?
Ok. I will keep those things in mind. p.s. I haven't quite got mailing lists worked out yet, because I've only really ever used forums and IRC channels. Is there some way that I can opt to receive mail only from threads to which I am subscribed? I know that's really a forum thing, so if not, I'll just opt to check the archives every so often instead of receiving mail. Thanks, Jeremy -- Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. (Anonymous) ~*~*~*~*~ * JDP :) * ~*~*~*~*~ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: I need to open and print a PCB created in ExpressPCB:What are my options?
Dave McGuire, Well somehow I ended up e-mailing you directly without realizing it (the gmail reply selection is mostly automatic, so it caught me off guard when it switched from mailing the gEDA list to mailing you). Anyway, for the benefit of everyone else, here's my last e-mail in case you want to comment on it. On 1/31/07, Jeremy Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right you are. I just wish I had gotten off my lazy butt sooner. I wanted to start learning this six months ago, when I had the time, and now I have to make time. I had noticed there were a few folks here who had written some software, but Icarus verilog and gnucap? Wow. I'll be sure not to ask any really stupid questions: I really wouldn't want to embarrass myself in front of people this talented. I wish I felt the same. I've always felt like math is a very important part of life, and I'm ashamed that I'm not better at it. I'm also not very good at analyzing circuits just yet, so when things can be reduced to formulas I find it helpful. I suppose you mean things like lambda calculus though. :-) You've been doing this for quite a long time. I didn't have a computer until I was ten, didn't discover GNU/Linux until I was 13 or so, and circuits were a mystery to me until September of last year. I always thought I wanted to be a software guy before I realized there's a sort of border world between the software and hardware schools of thought. I'm speaking of FPGA's, circuit simulators, PIC micro chips, etc... It seems like such an interesting mating of hardware and software. Thanks, Jeremy -- Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. (Anonymous) ~*~*~*~*~ * JDP :) * ~*~*~*~*~ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: I need to open and print a PCB created in ExpressPCB: What are my options?
Hello everyone, I am a second semester Electrical Engineering Technologies student at a community college. To get some practice with circuit prototyping/manufacture I would like to try my hand at printing a PCB layout for a laser tag system on photo transfer paper and using it to etch a PCB. The first problem I ran into during this process was that the MilesTag project (link here: http://lasertagparts.com/mtdesign.htm) provided no PCB layouts, only schematics. Having never used any EDA software before, I e-mailed these folks and asked if I could have PCB layouts for printing. The MilesTag project was kind enough to place PCB layouts on their website, but they were produced using ExpressPCB and I cannot open them with gerbv or PCB! I gather that RS-274D files are not supported by either of these programs (PCB and gerbv), and nothing short of a very rough perl script (that I turned up after searching the archives of this mailing list) seems to exist for converting these .pcb files to the RS-274x format. This leaves me with very limited options: - I can install ExpressPCB on a windows machine if I can find one with a suitable printer (such as an HP Deskjet) - I can try to use this perl script (no idea how it works: I know zero perl) - I can install ExpressPCB in wine, but I cannot make it talk to my printer, even with cups enabled (I compiled wine from source) I have a few questions concerning those options, and if they are not *technically* gEDA related, please forgive me: - Can ExpressPCB save in other formats like RS-274x? If so, I might be able to ask (politely, of course) if the MilesTag folks could post new PCB files that I could use. - Does anyone here use ExpressPCB in wine as a supplement to gEDA for when you encounter .pcb's that can't be opened in PCB? If so, how do you get things printed from inside wine? - Best of all, is anyone here aware of a newer/more complete script or program capable of converting an RS-274D to an RS-274x file? - And last but not least, could I write my own schematics (using the schematics on the MilesTag site) and make my own PCB from this schematic? (link to schematics: http://lasertagparts.com/mt5xx.htm). Looking at that schematic, could anyone here tell me what chance I stand of making a PCB layout that works? If so, how long would it take someone starting from almost absolute zero to create these files? What are the chances the first (auto-routed) two sided boards would work? I have looked into gEDA and it looks very complicated at first glance, yet very powerful -- like most things under Linux :-) -- what documentation should I peruse if I were to attempt this feat? I should probably be learning gEDA anyway so that I can avoid the software we must use at school: MultiSim. This is my first foray into EDA and I understand that my ignorance probably shows, so thank you very much for your patience, Jeremy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: I need to open and print a PCB created in ExpressPCB: What are my options?
Wow! You guys are really, really fast. Thanks much! So to recap: - It looks like my best option here is to create real schematics myself using the tech reference on the MilesTag site, and then lay out the PCB myself in PCB. Sounds fair enough. Do you think the auto-router could handle a board like that on its own? Or am I going to need to route my own traces? I know the auto-router only really works if you have used the Optimize rats nest tool to get the best component placement, but I thought I'd ask anyway. Oh: and if I were to use the board layout as a background than obviously I wouldn't be using the auto-route function. :-) - One of the many things this laser tag board requires is a sub-circuit for sensing pulses or infra-red light. It requires a special part (an IR receiver...the TSOP48xx I believe). A special part like this has a very unusual footprint: if I can't find the footprint in PCB, would it be difficult to create my own? If so, could I substitute something with the same number of thru-holes such as a 3-pin connector for it when I draw my schematic? - What is this toner transfer method? Perhaps that's what I meant to say. The method I am trying to describe involves using glossy photo paper to print a mirror image of the (top side) of a PCB layout, which you iron onto a copper clad board. You then remove the paper by soaking it in lukewarm water and place your copper clad board in a tank of etching solution such as ferric chloride or some sort of diluted acid. Many of you pointed out some howto's.: thanks, I'll have to look into those. Unfortunately, I generally have less than an hour a day to devote to this, so hopefully I can have the board layouts finished before the end of February. :-) Thanks, Jeremy -- Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. (Anonymous) ~*~*~*~*~ * JDP :) * ~*~*~*~*~ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: I need to open and print a PCB created in ExpressPCB:What are my options?
Yes, I must have meant auto-place, which is a feature I have yet to try. Right. So the toner transfer method sounds like the one I ought to try. Is it fairly accurate for two sided boards? I'm assuming you guys mostly make two sided boards, so I suppose that's a yes, but I thought I'd ask anyway. And while I'm thinking of it: how do you drill accurate 1mm holes? A drill press? If that's how it needs to be done, I happen to live next to a machine shop, so I can probably ask them to drill the holes. Ok. Judging by the responses I've received so far, it wouldn't be terribly tedious to create my own footprints. I guess I'll have to make my own for several of the components involved. Speaking of which: when I edit component attributes while making schematics (I was trying out gEDA this weekend) I noticed that the footprint attribute has to be edited by hand (as far as I know, anyway). For instance, if I need a PCB outline for a resistor, I need to set footprint to R025. Wouldn't it be easier to have a menu one could select footprints from? Along those lines, if I want to see what footprints are available by default, can I look at them in PCB or gerbv? If so, where are they (I should probably RTFM, but you guys have been really great, so I'll ask :-D). Thanks, Jeremy -- Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. (Anonymous) ~*~*~*~*~ * JDP :) * ~*~*~*~*~ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: I need to open and print a PCB created in ExpressPCB:What are my options?
Unfortunately space is at a premium in laser tag guns, so hopefully I can make it work. I'm not sure I'd even want to attempt an SMT board at home. Reflowing sounds a bit tricky. Oh. I haven't met the guy yet. However, there is a machine shop here at school and I know the teacher who runs it. Perhaps I could borrow one of their drill presses...Whatever the case, I have to learn most of gEDA first so I can get a working PCB layout. Ok, I'll check out that footprint library. p.s. This is probably as much help as you can give me until I think of something else after reading through some of the tutorials you all provided. One last question though: parts such as FETs tend to be sold by places like Mouser and Digi-Key in 1000 to 4000 unit groups. If I only need a few (3-6) MOSFETS, short of calling and asking for sample parts, what can I do? Thanks, Jeremy -- Windows [n.] A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition. (Anonymous) ~*~*~*~*~ * JDP :) * ~*~*~*~*~ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: I need to open and print a PCB created in ExpressPCB:What are my options?
So it's possible to hand solder or reflow these things at home? Better yet, can you do double sided SMT boards? I always thought you coudn't do it because you would have to have components touching the surface of the reflow skillet on one side while the other side was supposed to reflow. Also, am I right to suppose that since you use gEDA that there are footprints in gEDA for SMD components? That's something I hadn't thought of. I do have a school e-mail address, so I will check out On-semi. I couldn't really tell you if this is a particularly weird MOSFET. We just started semiconductor devices at school, so I'm really only familiar with Diodes so far. Here's the part at both Digi-Key and Mouser: Mouser ) 511-STN1NF10 Digi-Key ) IRLD110-ND I think they're the same: I'm not really sure. MilesTag specs the Digi-key part. Thanks all, Jeremy ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
