Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
Hi, Yep I agreed, it seems several IPMC members are are not in favours of this change, so it stays. Thanks, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
Hi all, Its been over a week since this thread was last active. I know its created some confusion within the IPMC now about the membership rules. Unless we can conclude this thread with a vote to change the process, I think we have to assume the old process remains in place. John On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:57 PM Julian Feinauer < j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de> wrote: > Hi, > > I fully agree with Julian here. But we should beware not to start a witch > hunt about 'bad mentors' but develop an environment where one can step back > as mentor if priorities change or for other reasons are no longer able to > mentor. Everybody is a volunteer here so we should thank everybody for > their effort and not be 'mad' if they 'do not enough'. > > But on the other hand this should encourage mentors who can for whatever > reason not support their podlings enough to speak freely or look for others > to fill in their spots. > > JulianF > > > ---- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---- > Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by > just asking > Von: Julian Hyde > An: general@incubator.apache.org > Cc: > > I agree with a lot of Dave Fisher's points. > > Some mentors will fail. Let's not waste effort trying to 'vet' them > beforehand; it's time-consuming and counter-productive. Let's instead > make it easier to detect when mentors fail (I think the "Have your > mentors been helpful?" question on podling reports helps with that, > but we need to do more), and let's try to increase the supply of > potential good mentors. That way, we'll end up with good mentors, and > we'll bring active new members into the Foundation. > > Julian > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Hao Chen wrote: > > > > I founded some apache project and graduated to TLP, and also keep > > contributing to some other apache projects but almost in code, wonder to > > know how to volunteer as IPMC to help some incubator projects graduate in > > Apache way. > > > > Hao Chen > > > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 7:43 AM Dave Fisher > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:39 AM, Justin Mclean > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > HI, > > > > > > > > I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off > > > currently you can join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and > asking > > > to join, the other by being voted in. On average the people being > voted in > > > tend to not go missing, review releases and sign off board reports more > > > frequently. > > > > > > > > This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members > have > > > suggested that the IPMC shouldn’t;t allow people to be added this way. > > > > > > > > The suggestion here isn’t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow > > > people who have experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it > > > often hard for the IPMC to recognise merit, but they still need to be > voted > > > in. [1] When a project graduates I go though the PMC list and see if > there > > > are any likely IPMC candidates and contact them to see if they are > > > interested, you’ll notice that more people have been voted in in recent > > > times. In another thread I’ve gone one step further and suggested that > > > mentors look out for people on their projects list who are release > managers > > > and vote on releases and suggest they be voted in as IPMC members. [2] > > > (Option D). I agree the bar should be low. > > > > > > > > I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged > group > > > to auto join, when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have > not > > > being involved in the incubator or an incubating project before. > Obviously > > > this doesn’t apply to all ASF members that ask join the incubator, but > I > > > can point to examples where this has given rise to serious issues. > We’ve > > > even had the occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their > > > podlings list, never voted on a release and never signed off a board > report. > > > > > > This is a different problem. I’ve seen nonmember mentors who were > voted in > > > who never really do anything. Let’s face it life intrudes in one way or > > > another. One hopes that such mentors will resign, but they usually fade > > > a
AW: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
Hi, I fully agree with Julian here. But we should beware not to start a witch hunt about 'bad mentors' but develop an environment where one can step back as mentor if priorities change or for other reasons are no longer able to mentor. Everybody is a volunteer here so we should thank everybody for their effort and not be 'mad' if they 'do not enough'. But on the other hand this should encourage mentors who can for whatever reason not support their podlings enough to speak freely or look for others to fill in their spots. JulianF Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---- Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking Von: Julian Hyde An: general@incubator.apache.org Cc: I agree with a lot of Dave Fisher's points. Some mentors will fail. Let's not waste effort trying to 'vet' them beforehand; it's time-consuming and counter-productive. Let's instead make it easier to detect when mentors fail (I think the "Have your mentors been helpful?" question on podling reports helps with that, but we need to do more), and let's try to increase the supply of potential good mentors. That way, we'll end up with good mentors, and we'll bring active new members into the Foundation. Julian On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Hao Chen wrote: > > I founded some apache project and graduated to TLP, and also keep > contributing to some other apache projects but almost in code, wonder to > know how to volunteer as IPMC to help some incubator projects graduate in > Apache way. > > Hao Chen > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 7:43 AM Dave Fisher wrote: > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:39 AM, Justin Mclean > > wrote: > > > > > > HI, > > > > > > I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off > > currently you can join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and asking > > to join, the other by being voted in. On average the people being voted in > > tend to not go missing, review releases and sign off board reports more > > frequently. > > > > > > This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members have > > suggested that the IPMC shouldn’t;t allow people to be added this way. > > > > > > The suggestion here isn’t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow > > people who have experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it > > often hard for the IPMC to recognise merit, but they still need to be voted > > in. [1] When a project graduates I go though the PMC list and see if there > > are any likely IPMC candidates and contact them to see if they are > > interested, you’ll notice that more people have been voted in in recent > > times. In another thread I’ve gone one step further and suggested that > > mentors look out for people on their projects list who are release managers > > and vote on releases and suggest they be voted in as IPMC members. [2] > > (Option D). I agree the bar should be low. > > > > > > I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged group > > to auto join, when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have not > > being involved in the incubator or an incubating project before. Obviously > > this doesn’t apply to all ASF members that ask join the incubator, but I > > can point to examples where this has given rise to serious issues. We’ve > > even had the occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their > > podlings list, never voted on a release and never signed off a board report. > > > > This is a different problem. I’ve seen nonmember mentors who were voted in > > who never really do anything. Let’s face it life intrudes in one way or > > another. One hopes that such mentors will resign, but they usually fade > > away. > > > > Let’s focus on service to podlings and try to replace mentors who for > > whatever reason cannot help. > > > > Following through with your proposal creates an IPMC that is not fully > > trusting the Membership. The membership of The ASF is the Foundation. These > > people have attained merit. > > > > > > > > I don’t mind if their's not consensus on this and letting this stay. > > There may be better ways to make sure mentors who sign up do their job and > > make mentors are more engaged. Please post your suggestions to this list > > for discussion. > > > > I reject the use of the verb “make” for this problem. We should “help” > > mentors and podling communities “be” more engaged. We should “help” > > podlings and mentors when Incubat
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
I agree with a lot of Dave Fisher's points. Some mentors will fail. Let's not waste effort trying to 'vet' them beforehand; it's time-consuming and counter-productive. Let's instead make it easier to detect when mentors fail (I think the "Have your mentors been helpful?" question on podling reports helps with that, but we need to do more), and let's try to increase the supply of potential good mentors. That way, we'll end up with good mentors, and we'll bring active new members into the Foundation. Julian On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Hao Chen wrote: > > I founded some apache project and graduated to TLP, and also keep > contributing to some other apache projects but almost in code, wonder to > know how to volunteer as IPMC to help some incubator projects graduate in > Apache way. > > Hao Chen > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 7:43 AM Dave Fisher wrote: > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:39 AM, Justin Mclean > > wrote: > > > > > > HI, > > > > > > I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off > > currently you can join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and asking > > to join, the other by being voted in. On average the people being voted in > > tend to not go missing, review releases and sign off board reports more > > frequently. > > > > > > This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members have > > suggested that the IPMC shouldn’t;t allow people to be added this way. > > > > > > The suggestion here isn’t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow > > people who have experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it > > often hard for the IPMC to recognise merit, but they still need to be voted > > in. [1] When a project graduates I go though the PMC list and see if there > > are any likely IPMC candidates and contact them to see if they are > > interested, you’ll notice that more people have been voted in in recent > > times. In another thread I’ve gone one step further and suggested that > > mentors look out for people on their projects list who are release managers > > and vote on releases and suggest they be voted in as IPMC members. [2] > > (Option D). I agree the bar should be low. > > > > > > I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged group > > to auto join, when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have not > > being involved in the incubator or an incubating project before. Obviously > > this doesn’t apply to all ASF members that ask join the incubator, but I > > can point to examples where this has given rise to serious issues. We’ve > > even had the occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their > > podlings list, never voted on a release and never signed off a board report. > > > > This is a different problem. I’ve seen nonmember mentors who were voted in > > who never really do anything. Let’s face it life intrudes in one way or > > another. One hopes that such mentors will resign, but they usually fade > > away. > > > > Let’s focus on service to podlings and try to replace mentors who for > > whatever reason cannot help. > > > > Following through with your proposal creates an IPMC that is not fully > > trusting the Membership. The membership of The ASF is the Foundation. These > > people have attained merit. > > > > > > > > I don’t mind if their's not consensus on this and letting this stay. > > There may be better ways to make sure mentors who sign up do their job and > > make mentors are more engaged. Please post your suggestions to this list > > for discussion. > > > > I reject the use of the verb “make” for this problem. We should “help” > > mentors and podling communities “be” more engaged. We should “help” > > podlings and mentors when Incubation is not working. > > > > Mentoring is voluntary. So is Membership. > > > > We need to have strong Champions who know how to bring willing and able > > podlings and mentors into the Incubator. > > > > Regards, > > Dave > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Justin > > > > > > 1. > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9ee3860bc9066ba682484542d34976ab21d9b62106f26a96f19d997f@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > > 2. > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8c6e12bb040856dddb5d9b7b4821739e441455f3c61c6e469eb98f81@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
I founded some apache project and graduated to TLP, and also keep contributing to some other apache projects but almost in code, wonder to know how to volunteer as IPMC to help some incubator projects graduate in Apache way. Hao Chen On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 7:43 AM Dave Fisher wrote: > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:39 AM, Justin Mclean > wrote: > > > > HI, > > > > I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off > currently you can join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and asking > to join, the other by being voted in. On average the people being voted in > tend to not go missing, review releases and sign off board reports more > frequently. > > > > This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members have > suggested that the IPMC shouldn’t;t allow people to be added this way. > > > > The suggestion here isn’t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow > people who have experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it > often hard for the IPMC to recognise merit, but they still need to be voted > in. [1] When a project graduates I go though the PMC list and see if there > are any likely IPMC candidates and contact them to see if they are > interested, you’ll notice that more people have been voted in in recent > times. In another thread I’ve gone one step further and suggested that > mentors look out for people on their projects list who are release managers > and vote on releases and suggest they be voted in as IPMC members. [2] > (Option D). I agree the bar should be low. > > > > I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged group > to auto join, when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have not > being involved in the incubator or an incubating project before. Obviously > this doesn’t apply to all ASF members that ask join the incubator, but I > can point to examples where this has given rise to serious issues. We’ve > even had the occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their > podlings list, never voted on a release and never signed off a board report. > > This is a different problem. I’ve seen nonmember mentors who were voted in > who never really do anything. Let’s face it life intrudes in one way or > another. One hopes that such mentors will resign, but they usually fade > away. > > Let’s focus on service to podlings and try to replace mentors who for > whatever reason cannot help. > > Following through with your proposal creates an IPMC that is not fully > trusting the Membership. The membership of The ASF is the Foundation. These > people have attained merit. > > > > > I don’t mind if their's not consensus on this and letting this stay. > There may be better ways to make sure mentors who sign up do their job and > make mentors are more engaged. Please post your suggestions to this list > for discussion. > > I reject the use of the verb “make” for this problem. We should “help” > mentors and podling communities “be” more engaged. We should “help” > podlings and mentors when Incubation is not working. > > Mentoring is voluntary. So is Membership. > > We need to have strong Champions who know how to bring willing and able > podlings and mentors into the Incubator. > > Regards, > Dave > > > > > Thanks, > > Justin > > > > 1. > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9ee3860bc9066ba682484542d34976ab21d9b62106f26a96f19d997f@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > 2. > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8c6e12bb040856dddb5d9b7b4821739e441455f3c61c6e469eb98f81@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:39 AM, Justin Mclean wrote: > > HI, > > I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off > currently you can join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and asking to > join, the other by being voted in. On average the people being voted in tend > to not go missing, review releases and sign off board reports more frequently. > > This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members have > suggested that the IPMC shouldn’t;t allow people to be added this way. > > The suggestion here isn’t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow people who > have experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it often hard for > the IPMC to recognise merit, but they still need to be voted in. [1] When a > project graduates I go though the PMC list and see if there are any likely > IPMC candidates and contact them to see if they are interested, you’ll notice > that more people have been voted in in recent times. In another thread I’ve > gone one step further and suggested that mentors look out for people on their > projects list who are release managers and vote on releases and suggest they > be voted in as IPMC members. [2] (Option D). I agree the bar should be low. > > I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged group to > auto join, when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have not being > involved in the incubator or an incubating project before. Obviously this > doesn’t apply to all ASF members that ask join the incubator, but I can point > to examples where this has given rise to serious issues. We’ve even had the > occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their podlings list, never > voted on a release and never signed off a board report. This is a different problem. I’ve seen nonmember mentors who were voted in who never really do anything. Let’s face it life intrudes in one way or another. One hopes that such mentors will resign, but they usually fade away. Let’s focus on service to podlings and try to replace mentors who for whatever reason cannot help. Following through with your proposal creates an IPMC that is not fully trusting the Membership. The membership of The ASF is the Foundation. These people have attained merit. > > I don’t mind if their's not consensus on this and letting this stay. There > may be better ways to make sure mentors who sign up do their job and make > mentors are more engaged. Please post your suggestions to this list for > discussion. I reject the use of the verb “make” for this problem. We should “help” mentors and podling communities “be” more engaged. We should “help” podlings and mentors when Incubation is not working. Mentoring is voluntary. So is Membership. We need to have strong Champions who know how to bring willing and able podlings and mentors into the Incubator. Regards, Dave > > Thanks, > Justin > > 1. > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9ee3860bc9066ba682484542d34976ab21d9b62106f26a96f19d997f@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > 2.https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8c6e12bb040856dddb5d9b7b4821739e441455f3c61c6e469eb98f81@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
HI, I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off currently you can join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and asking to join, the other by being voted in. On average the people being voted in tend to not go missing, review releases and sign off board reports more frequently. This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members have suggested that the IPMC shouldn’t;t allow people to be added this way. The suggestion here isn’t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow people who have experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it often hard for the IPMC to recognise merit, but they still need to be voted in. [1] When a project graduates I go though the PMC list and see if there are any likely IPMC candidates and contact them to see if they are interested, you’ll notice that more people have been voted in in recent times. In another thread I’ve gone one step further and suggested that mentors look out for people on their projects list who are release managers and vote on releases and suggest they be voted in as IPMC members. [2] (Option D). I agree the bar should be low. I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged group to auto join, when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have not being involved in the incubator or an incubating project before. Obviously this doesn’t apply to all ASF members that ask join the incubator, but I can point to examples where this has given rise to serious issues. We’ve even had the occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their podlings list, never voted on a release and never signed off a board report. I don’t mind if their's not consensus on this and letting this stay. There may be better ways to make sure mentors who sign up do their job and make mentors are more engaged. Please post your suggestions to this list for discussion. Thanks, Justin 1. https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9ee3860bc9066ba682484542d34976ab21d9b62106f26a96f19d997f@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E 2.https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8c6e12bb040856dddb5d9b7b4821739e441455f3c61c6e469eb98f81@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
I agree, I think that the "requirement" (Never really knew there was such a requirement) of being a Member sort of gives you the easy entry path as if you are a member people expect you to understand the Apache Way. However that doesn't mean that people not being a member don't get the Apache Way and hereby should be excluded. Chris PS: Sorry for being silent for quite some time ... was 100% swamped with TAC and ACEU preparations ... Am 13.08.19, 08:29 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" : Hi, I'm a new IPMC Member (no foundation member) and come from a PLC4X which has graduated months ago. I already started to help other Podlings a bit. And I agree with Dave in the sense that we should seek our way not in locking-out people but in finding ways to draw in more people. It was already said multiple times that people from "mature" podlings or freshly graduated projects would be a good call as mentors this should be ONE way to go. Julian Am 13.08.19, 01:42 schrieb "Dave Fisher" : > On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:29 PM, Greg Stein wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 5:26 PM Justin Mclean > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >>> I will also note that if the IPMC switches to *voting* Members into the >>> IPMC, that the Apache Member will be observing that vote take place on >>> private@ through a subscription (they can reply!) or via the archives. … >> >> Which is also the same for any project who votes in a ASF member as a >> committer or PMC member. >> > > I would counter that any project which creates such a bar for ASF Members > may be doing it Wrong :) > > (this goes into my general feeling that projects generally need to lower > their bars, and become more inclusive) I really think that we have long precedent to do most of what we need to do already in place. I’m -1 on this proposal. I think it is a bad idea. It is so bad that I would seriously think about volunteering here less. Just think about how many VOTEs we would need to do when a Podling comes in. Think about all the pro forma votes and discussions about people. BORING! Frankly, I’m quite surprised that this is even being proposed. Regards, Dave > > Cheers, > -g - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
Hi, I'm a new IPMC Member (no foundation member) and come from a PLC4X which has graduated months ago. I already started to help other Podlings a bit. And I agree with Dave in the sense that we should seek our way not in locking-out people but in finding ways to draw in more people. It was already said multiple times that people from "mature" podlings or freshly graduated projects would be a good call as mentors this should be ONE way to go. Julian Am 13.08.19, 01:42 schrieb "Dave Fisher" : > On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:29 PM, Greg Stein wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 5:26 PM Justin Mclean > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >>> I will also note that if the IPMC switches to *voting* Members into the >>> IPMC, that the Apache Member will be observing that vote take place on >>> private@ through a subscription (they can reply!) or via the archives. … >> >> Which is also the same for any project who votes in a ASF member as a >> committer or PMC member. >> > > I would counter that any project which creates such a bar for ASF Members > may be doing it Wrong :) > > (this goes into my general feeling that projects generally need to lower > their bars, and become more inclusive) I really think that we have long precedent to do most of what we need to do already in place. I’m -1 on this proposal. I think it is a bad idea. It is so bad that I would seriously think about volunteering here less. Just think about how many VOTEs we would need to do when a Podling comes in. Think about all the pro forma votes and discussions about people. BORING! Frankly, I’m quite surprised that this is even being proposed. Regards, Dave > > Cheers, > -g - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
Yep, that is definitely a good one. I joined their mailing list a couple of weeks ago and have been chatting with Lee on it, after he mentioned on the Druid list that he could use some help. (Apologies for the digression btw) On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 2:10 PM Julian Hyde wrote: > Thanks, Gian. I bet you’re familiar with DataSketches (as it has > ancestry/people in common with Druid) and I recall that recently they > needed more mentors. > > > > On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:06 PM, Gian Merlino wrote: > > > > One more voice here: I'm not an ASF member, but I'd be interested in > > mentoring other podlings after Druid graduates. Julian has been very > > helpful to us while we've been incubating and I'd like to pay it forward. > > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:12 AM Julian Hyde wrote: > > > >> I don’t have a strong opinion on the subject of this thread - whether it > >> should be easy for ASF members to join the IPMC - but I have a strong > >> opinion about a related matter - namely, how easy it should be for > non-ASF > >> members to join the IPMC. > >> > >> The IPMC should be actively recruiting members of recently-graduated > >> projects to serve as mentors of the next generation of podlings. > >> > >> I bet quite a few people people think that you have to be an ASF member > to > >> be on the IPMC or mentor a project. And we certainly give the impression > >> that ASF members make the best mentors. But I claim that people who have > >> just been through the incubation process also make excellent mentors. > They > >> have experienced the pain, and they know the answers to many of the IT- > and > >> process-related questions because they have just solved them. > >> > >> Like Sheng, I joined the IPMC before I was a member. The project I > >> founded, Calcite, was close to graduating and I was active on general@ > >> because being a podling is hard and raises many questions. Some other > >> podlings were entering incubation and someone (I think Ted Dunning or > Alan > >> Gates) asked me to be a mentor. From that, I was drawn into other Apache > >> projects, saw the broader Apache community, and was drawn into the > worthy > >> task of helping to govern the Foundation. For me, serving as a mentor > was a > >> way of saying ’thank you’ for the help I had received from mentors > during > >> incubation. And for the IPMC, it provided an active and engaged mentor, > >> always a scarce resource. > >> > >> Julian > >> > >> > >>> On Aug 8, 2019, at 10:29 PM, Sheng Wu > wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi > >>> > >>> My Apache journey started at Incubator, and as IPMC now(not asf > member). > >> I > >>> noticed this requirement too. > >>> > >>> From the members I known personally, most indeed know Apache way very > >> well. > >>> And truely there is exception. > >>> > >>> Basically, I think removing this makes sense. > >>> > >>> 1. if this member has been incubator journey, such as being initial > >>> committer of a podling, it is easy to know and should have taken part > in > >>> incubator ml much. > >>> > >>> 2. there are indeed asf members elected by other reasons, so, they are > >> not > >>> familiar w/ incubator, and need more time to learn too. Apache has so > >> many > >>> TLPs and ways to take part in, a member is not required used to be > >>> incubator. > >>> > >>> My +1 on IPMC should have enough incubator experiences. > >>> > >>> Also, very open to know the history reason of this. > >>> > >>> Sheng > >>> > >>> Justin Mclean 于2019年8月9日 周五下午1:04写道： > >>> > Hi, > > Current any ASF member can come along and ask to join the IPMC. I > assume > this was put in place for two reasons: ( but don’t know the full > history > behind it) > - There was a lack of mentors. > - Is is assumed that if you are an ASF member you know enough about > the > Apache Way to mentor a project. > > I’m not sure if this is the case anymore. And while the mentor > situation > has improved I don’t think the above has solved the problem of having > active members or mentors having the required knowledge and skills > they > need. > > So if you want to be a IPMC member and mentor a project then I think > you > need you have gone through the full incubation process yourself and/or > >> help > out with other incubator duties and get voted in as an IPMC member. > Just > like every other ASF project. > > What do other people think? > > Thanks, > Justin > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > -- > >>> Sheng Wu > >>> SkyWalking, Shardingsphere and Zipkin > >> > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incu
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
+1 , we need a binding process to let the member know better about the Incubating. For me, even I attend serval Apache projects before I start mentoring incubating project, there are still lot of thing I need to learn. Willem Jiang Twitter: willemjiang Weibo: 姜宁willem On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 1:04 PM Justin Mclean wrote: > > Hi, > > Current any ASF member can come along and ask to join the IPMC. I assume this > was put in place for two reasons: ( but don’t know the full history behind it) > - There was a lack of mentors. > - Is is assumed that if you are an ASF member you know enough about the > Apache Way to mentor a project. > > I’m not sure if this is the case anymore. And while the mentor situation has > improved I don’t think the above has solved the problem of having active > members or mentors having the required knowledge and skills they need. > > So if you want to be a IPMC member and mentor a project then I think you need > you have gone through the full incubation process yourself and/or help out > with other incubator duties and get voted in as an IPMC member. Just like > every other ASF project. > > What do other people think? > > Thanks, > Justin > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 3:26 PM Justin Mclean wrote: > Hi, > > > I will also note that if the IPMC switches to *voting* Members into the > > IPMC, that the Apache Member will be observing that vote take place on > > private@ through a subscription (they can reply!) or via the archives. … > > Which is also the same for any project who votes in a ASF member as a > committer or PMC member. > > A vote in front a person is never going to be Fair. There is a natural > > misgiving to speak out against a person, to their face. You will likely > not > > get the -1 votes that may be deserved. This is already the case for PMC votes in general, since if it goes through (now or ever) they can view the archives to see the -1 votes. I don't think this case is very different from that, in terms of chilling effect. Anyhow I'm -0 because I think the rationale is sound but I don't think the cost/benefit pays off. Julian's idea of actively recruiting folks currently going through incubation or recently graduated seems a better avenue. Kenn > Thanks, > Justin > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
I posted the following in a private@ thread: Traditionally ASF membership + expressed interest has been the main path to the IPMC. Honestly, I think “someone who has significantly helped a project navigate incubation through to successful graduation” holds at least as much merit as ASF membership. There’s the added benefit of recent experience. My experience with the incubator 5-6 years ago is likely different than what podlings experience today. The core values haven’t changed, but some processes have. That is where I see new blood brings value. ——— I see value in lowing the bar for entry to the IPMC. I also see value in allowing interested Members to auto-join. Default to inclusivity. -Taylor > On Aug 12, 2019, at 7:29 PM, Greg Stein wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 5:26 PM Justin Mclean > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >>> I will also note that if the IPMC switches to *voting* Members into the >>> IPMC, that the Apache Member will be observing that vote take place on >>> private@ through a subscription (they can reply!) or via the archives. … >> >> Which is also the same for any project who votes in a ASF member as a >> committer or PMC member. >> > > I would counter that any project which creates such a bar for ASF Members > may be doing it Wrong :) > > (this goes into my general feeling that projects generally need to lower > their bars, and become more inclusive) > > Cheers, > -g - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
> On Aug 12, 2019, at 4:29 PM, Greg Stein wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 5:26 PM Justin Mclean > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >>> I will also note that if the IPMC switches to *voting* Members into the >>> IPMC, that the Apache Member will be observing that vote take place on >>> private@ through a subscription (they can reply!) or via the archives. … >> >> Which is also the same for any project who votes in a ASF member as a >> committer or PMC member. >> > > I would counter that any project which creates such a bar for ASF Members > may be doing it Wrong :) > > (this goes into my general feeling that projects generally need to lower > their bars, and become more inclusive) I really think that we have long precedent to do most of what we need to do already in place. I’m -1 on this proposal. I think it is a bad idea. It is so bad that I would seriously think about volunteering here less. Just think about how many VOTEs we would need to do when a Podling comes in. Think about all the pro forma votes and discussions about people. BORING! Frankly, I’m quite surprised that this is even being proposed. Regards, Dave > > Cheers, > -g - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 5:26 PM Justin Mclean wrote: > Hi, > > > I will also note that if the IPMC switches to *voting* Members into the > > IPMC, that the Apache Member will be observing that vote take place on > > private@ through a subscription (they can reply!) or via the archives. … > > Which is also the same for any project who votes in a ASF member as a > committer or PMC member. > I would counter that any project which creates such a bar for ASF Members may be doing it Wrong :) (this goes into my general feeling that projects generally need to lower their bars, and become more inclusive) Cheers, -g
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
I don’t understand how obstructing people from becoming mentors is going to increase their involvement. In the unlikely event that I got interested enough in an incoming project to want to mentor it, no matter what rules are in place, my doing so depends on my commitment to actually mentoring. Putting additional hoops in place to jump through would just make me think that there’s too much bureaucracy not related to actually mentoring. I think you want a way of asking potential mentors, “Are you sure you want to do this? Really? Truly? If you sign up to mentor and disappear you will be dragging the project down and pushing it away from Apache. Are you still sure?” Why not just ask them directly? David Jencks > On Aug 12, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Justin Mclean wrote: > > Hi, > >> Is there a problem we are trying to solve or is this just a concern that >> it might become a problem as we scale? > > It’s already a problem. I suggest you look at the missing mentors / mentors > who don’t sign off report and look at how they were appointed. I can post the > stats if you want, but perhaps not to this list. > > Changing this would also mean people who want to be IPMC members need to do a > little work at the IPMC (and it should be a low bar), that hopefully means > more a bit more knowledge transfer / active mentors self select and a few > more people helping the IPMC out. > > Plus it’s different to how every other PMC appoints people, I don't see why > the incubator needs to be special in this regard. > > Thanks, > Justin > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 23:35, Justin Mclean wrote: > > Hi, > > > Is there a problem we are trying to solve or is this just a concern that > > it might become a problem as we scale? > > It’s already a problem. I suggest you look at the missing mentors / mentors > who don’t sign off report and look at how they were appointed. I can post the > stats if you want, but perhaps not to this list. > > Changing this would also mean people who want to be IPMC members need to do a > little work at the IPMC (and it should be a low bar), that hopefully means > more a bit more knowledge transfer / active mentors self select and a few > more people helping the IPMC out. > > Plus it’s different to how every other PMC appoints people, I don't see why > the incubator needs to be special in this regard. I think this may cause more work for the Incubator. Instead of ASF members offering themselves, the PMC will have to actively seek out new candidates. Also, I don't think there is anything stopping the IPMC from inviting new members now. > Thanks, > Justin > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
Hi, > Is there a problem we are trying to solve or is this just a concern that > it might become a problem as we scale? It’s already a problem. I suggest you look at the missing mentors / mentors who don’t sign off report and look at how they were appointed. I can post the stats if you want, but perhaps not to this list. Changing this would also mean people who want to be IPMC members need to do a little work at the IPMC (and it should be a low bar), that hopefully means more a bit more knowledge transfer / active mentors self select and a few more people helping the IPMC out. Plus it’s different to how every other PMC appoints people, I don't see why the incubator needs to be special in this regard. Thanks, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
Hi, > I will also note that if the IPMC switches to *voting* Members into the > IPMC, that the Apache Member will be observing that vote take place on > private@ through a subscription (they can reply!) or via the archives. … Which is also the same for any project who votes in a ASF member as a committer or PMC member. Thanks, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
On 8/12/2019 5:28 PM, Greg Stein wrote: > I'm -0 on removal of the precedent. Is there a problem we are trying to solve or is this just a concern that it might become a problem as we scale? -- Kevin A. McGrail Member, Apache Software Foundation Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 12:04 AM Justin Mclean wrote: > Hi, > > Current any ASF member can come along and ask to join the IPMC. I assume > this was put in place for two reasons: ( but don’t know the full history > behind it) > - There was a lack of mentors. > - Is is assumed that if you are an ASF member you know enough about the > Apache Way to mentor a project. > The latter, definitely. I don't recall if the former is true. I'm -0 on removal of the precedent. I will also note that if the IPMC switches to *voting* Members into the IPMC, that the Apache Member will be observing that vote take place on private@ through a subscription (they can reply!) or via the archives. ... A vote in front a person is never going to be Fair. There is a natural misgiving to speak out against a person, to their face. You will likely not get the -1 votes that may be deserved. Cheers, -g
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
Thanks, Gian. I bet you’re familiar with DataSketches (as it has ancestry/people in common with Druid) and I recall that recently they needed more mentors. > On Aug 12, 2019, at 2:06 PM, Gian Merlino wrote: > > One more voice here: I'm not an ASF member, but I'd be interested in > mentoring other podlings after Druid graduates. Julian has been very > helpful to us while we've been incubating and I'd like to pay it forward. > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:12 AM Julian Hyde wrote: > >> I don’t have a strong opinion on the subject of this thread - whether it >> should be easy for ASF members to join the IPMC - but I have a strong >> opinion about a related matter - namely, how easy it should be for non-ASF >> members to join the IPMC. >> >> The IPMC should be actively recruiting members of recently-graduated >> projects to serve as mentors of the next generation of podlings. >> >> I bet quite a few people people think that you have to be an ASF member to >> be on the IPMC or mentor a project. And we certainly give the impression >> that ASF members make the best mentors. But I claim that people who have >> just been through the incubation process also make excellent mentors. They >> have experienced the pain, and they know the answers to many of the IT- and >> process-related questions because they have just solved them. >> >> Like Sheng, I joined the IPMC before I was a member. The project I >> founded, Calcite, was close to graduating and I was active on general@ >> because being a podling is hard and raises many questions. Some other >> podlings were entering incubation and someone (I think Ted Dunning or Alan >> Gates) asked me to be a mentor. From that, I was drawn into other Apache >> projects, saw the broader Apache community, and was drawn into the worthy >> task of helping to govern the Foundation. For me, serving as a mentor was a >> way of saying ’thank you’ for the help I had received from mentors during >> incubation. And for the IPMC, it provided an active and engaged mentor, >> always a scarce resource. >> >> Julian >> >> >>> On Aug 8, 2019, at 10:29 PM, Sheng Wu wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> My Apache journey started at Incubator, and as IPMC now(not asf member). >> I >>> noticed this requirement too. >>> >>> From the members I known personally, most indeed know Apache way very >> well. >>> And truely there is exception. >>> >>> Basically, I think removing this makes sense. >>> >>> 1. if this member has been incubator journey, such as being initial >>> committer of a podling, it is easy to know and should have taken part in >>> incubator ml much. >>> >>> 2. there are indeed asf members elected by other reasons, so, they are >> not >>> familiar w/ incubator, and need more time to learn too. Apache has so >> many >>> TLPs and ways to take part in, a member is not required used to be >>> incubator. >>> >>> My +1 on IPMC should have enough incubator experiences. >>> >>> Also, very open to know the history reason of this. >>> >>> Sheng >>> >>> Justin Mclean 于2019年8月9日 周五下午1:04写道： >>> Hi, Current any ASF member can come along and ask to join the IPMC. I assume this was put in place for two reasons: ( but don’t know the full history behind it) - There was a lack of mentors. - Is is assumed that if you are an ASF member you know enough about the Apache Way to mentor a project. I’m not sure if this is the case anymore. And while the mentor situation has improved I don’t think the above has solved the problem of having active members or mentors having the required knowledge and skills they need. So if you want to be a IPMC member and mentor a project then I think you need you have gone through the full incubation process yourself and/or >> help out with other incubator duties and get voted in as an IPMC member. Just like every other ASF project. What do other people think? Thanks, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org -- >>> Sheng Wu >>> SkyWalking, Shardingsphere and Zipkin >> >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
One more voice here: I'm not an ASF member, but I'd be interested in mentoring other podlings after Druid graduates. Julian has been very helpful to us while we've been incubating and I'd like to pay it forward. On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:12 AM Julian Hyde wrote: > I don’t have a strong opinion on the subject of this thread - whether it > should be easy for ASF members to join the IPMC - but I have a strong > opinion about a related matter - namely, how easy it should be for non-ASF > members to join the IPMC. > > The IPMC should be actively recruiting members of recently-graduated > projects to serve as mentors of the next generation of podlings. > > I bet quite a few people people think that you have to be an ASF member to > be on the IPMC or mentor a project. And we certainly give the impression > that ASF members make the best mentors. But I claim that people who have > just been through the incubation process also make excellent mentors. They > have experienced the pain, and they know the answers to many of the IT- and > process-related questions because they have just solved them. > > Like Sheng, I joined the IPMC before I was a member. The project I > founded, Calcite, was close to graduating and I was active on general@ > because being a podling is hard and raises many questions. Some other > podlings were entering incubation and someone (I think Ted Dunning or Alan > Gates) asked me to be a mentor. From that, I was drawn into other Apache > projects, saw the broader Apache community, and was drawn into the worthy > task of helping to govern the Foundation. For me, serving as a mentor was a > way of saying ’thank you’ for the help I had received from mentors during > incubation. And for the IPMC, it provided an active and engaged mentor, > always a scarce resource. > > Julian > > > > On Aug 8, 2019, at 10:29 PM, Sheng Wu wrote: > > > > Hi > > > > My Apache journey started at Incubator, and as IPMC now(not asf member). > I > > noticed this requirement too. > > > > From the members I known personally, most indeed know Apache way very > well. > > And truely there is exception. > > > > Basically, I think removing this makes sense. > > > > 1. if this member has been incubator journey, such as being initial > > committer of a podling, it is easy to know and should have taken part in > > incubator ml much. > > > > 2. there are indeed asf members elected by other reasons, so, they are > not > > familiar w/ incubator, and need more time to learn too. Apache has so > many > > TLPs and ways to take part in, a member is not required used to be > > incubator. > > > > My +1 on IPMC should have enough incubator experiences. > > > > Also, very open to know the history reason of this. > > > > Sheng > > > > Justin Mclean 于2019年8月9日 周五下午1:04写道： > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> Current any ASF member can come along and ask to join the IPMC. I assume > >> this was put in place for two reasons: ( but don’t know the full history > >> behind it) > >> - There was a lack of mentors. > >> - Is is assumed that if you are an ASF member you know enough about the > >> Apache Way to mentor a project. > >> > >> I’m not sure if this is the case anymore. And while the mentor situation > >> has improved I don’t think the above has solved the problem of having > >> active members or mentors having the required knowledge and skills they > >> need. > >> > >> So if you want to be a IPMC member and mentor a project then I think you > >> need you have gone through the full incubation process yourself and/or > help > >> out with other incubator duties and get voted in as an IPMC member. Just > >> like every other ASF project. > >> > >> What do other people think? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Justin > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> > >> -- > > Sheng Wu > > SkyWalking, Shardingsphere and Zipkin > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
I don’t have a strong opinion on the subject of this thread - whether it should be easy for ASF members to join the IPMC - but I have a strong opinion about a related matter - namely, how easy it should be for non-ASF members to join the IPMC. The IPMC should be actively recruiting members of recently-graduated projects to serve as mentors of the next generation of podlings. I bet quite a few people people think that you have to be an ASF member to be on the IPMC or mentor a project. And we certainly give the impression that ASF members make the best mentors. But I claim that people who have just been through the incubation process also make excellent mentors. They have experienced the pain, and they know the answers to many of the IT- and process-related questions because they have just solved them. Like Sheng, I joined the IPMC before I was a member. The project I founded, Calcite, was close to graduating and I was active on general@ because being a podling is hard and raises many questions. Some other podlings were entering incubation and someone (I think Ted Dunning or Alan Gates) asked me to be a mentor. From that, I was drawn into other Apache projects, saw the broader Apache community, and was drawn into the worthy task of helping to govern the Foundation. For me, serving as a mentor was a way of saying ’thank you’ for the help I had received from mentors during incubation. And for the IPMC, it provided an active and engaged mentor, always a scarce resource. Julian > On Aug 8, 2019, at 10:29 PM, Sheng Wu wrote: > > Hi > > My Apache journey started at Incubator, and as IPMC now(not asf member). I > noticed this requirement too. > > From the members I known personally, most indeed know Apache way very well. > And truely there is exception. > > Basically, I think removing this makes sense. > > 1. if this member has been incubator journey, such as being initial > committer of a podling, it is easy to know and should have taken part in > incubator ml much. > > 2. there are indeed asf members elected by other reasons, so, they are not > familiar w/ incubator, and need more time to learn too. Apache has so many > TLPs and ways to take part in, a member is not required used to be > incubator. > > My +1 on IPMC should have enough incubator experiences. > > Also, very open to know the history reason of this. > > Sheng > > Justin Mclean 于2019年8月9日 周五下午1:04写道： > >> Hi, >> >> Current any ASF member can come along and ask to join the IPMC. I assume >> this was put in place for two reasons: ( but don’t know the full history >> behind it) >> - There was a lack of mentors. >> - Is is assumed that if you are an ASF member you know enough about the >> Apache Way to mentor a project. >> >> I’m not sure if this is the case anymore. And while the mentor situation >> has improved I don’t think the above has solved the problem of having >> active members or mentors having the required knowledge and skills they >> need. >> >> So if you want to be a IPMC member and mentor a project then I think you >> need you have gone through the full incubation process yourself and/or help >> out with other incubator duties and get voted in as an IPMC member. Just >> like every other ASF project. >> >> What do other people think? >> >> Thanks, >> Justin >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> >> -- > Sheng Wu > SkyWalking, Shardingsphere and Zipkin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
Hi My Apache journey started at Incubator, and as IPMC now(not asf member). I noticed this requirement too. >From the members I known personally, most indeed know Apache way very well. And truely there is exception. Basically, I think removing this makes sense. 1. if this member has been incubator journey, such as being initial committer of a podling, it is easy to know and should have taken part in incubator ml much. 2. there are indeed asf members elected by other reasons, so, they are not familiar w/ incubator, and need more time to learn too. Apache has so many TLPs and ways to take part in, a member is not required used to be incubator. My +1 on IPMC should have enough incubator experiences. Also, very open to know the history reason of this. Sheng Justin Mclean 于2019年8月9日 周五下午1:04写道： > Hi, > > Current any ASF member can come along and ask to join the IPMC. I assume > this was put in place for two reasons: ( but don’t know the full history > behind it) > - There was a lack of mentors. > - Is is assumed that if you are an ASF member you know enough about the > Apache Way to mentor a project. > > I’m not sure if this is the case anymore. And while the mentor situation > has improved I don’t think the above has solved the problem of having > active members or mentors having the required knowledge and skills they > need. > > So if you want to be a IPMC member and mentor a project then I think you > need you have gone through the full incubation process yourself and/or help > out with other incubator duties and get voted in as an IPMC member. Just > like every other ASF project. > > What do other people think? > > Thanks, > Justin > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > -- Sheng Wu SkyWalking, Shardingsphere and Zipkin
[DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by just asking
Hi, Current any ASF member can come along and ask to join the IPMC. I assume this was put in place for two reasons: ( but don’t know the full history behind it) - There was a lack of mentors. - Is is assumed that if you are an ASF member you know enough about the Apache Way to mentor a project. I’m not sure if this is the case anymore. And while the mentor situation has improved I don’t think the above has solved the problem of having active members or mentors having the required knowledge and skills they need. So if you want to be a IPMC member and mentor a project then I think you need you have gone through the full incubation process yourself and/or help out with other incubator duties and get voted in as an IPMC member. Just like every other ASF project. What do other people think? Thanks, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
