Re: [gentoo-user] Video capture using Dazzle Digital Video Creator 120
Yes, I'm likely going to find out the same thing for the 120. The 80 is listed as not working on the Linux-USB site, but of course you would not have had that info at the garage sale. ;-) The 120 actually worked quite well under XP. At least you only blew $2, right? I'm letting my son blow my best Linux laptop with this device, al least in the short term. Thanks for the response, Mark P.S. - Darn, it's been 6 months since I built a kernel for my laptop. I've forgotten how!!! :-) :-( On Apr 4, 2005 7:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I bought a Dazzle 80 at a yard sale for $2, only to find that it doesn't > work in Linux & doesn't work well in Windows. I doubt that things have > changed much in the past 2 months. > > Creighton > > Mark, I had assumed that you had ascertained that the device is > > supported in linux. > > > > Maybe it isn't? > > -- > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > > -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Video capture using Dazzle Digital Video Creator 120
On Apr 4, 2005 5:58 PM, Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mark, I had assumed that you had ascertained that the device is > supported in linux. No - my 12 year old son wanted the device, earned the money, and bought it. His PC is Linux (FC2 for simplicity) and I told him that if it didn't work he could use one of my windows boxes. Now I'm trying to get him off my box and onto his Linux machine. > > Maybe it isn't? > > Brief goolging, and searching the usb linux database at http://qbik.ch > is not promising. That's the way I feel right now. Cannot tell if it's a no support item, or somethign else. That's why I came here - hoping that someone would just pop up and tell me yea or nea. > > More or less the same results on my Gentoo laptop. I'm here now: > > > > > It would pay to make all of those as modules and see if any work. Where do I set up Video for Linux? > > > > Christchurch > > > > > > Ah...Christchurch...I love that town. > > wow you know it? cool! clear blue skies, nice autumn day today Yeah. I spent 4 weeks down there 15 or so years ago. Great trip. did a lot of home stays on the south island. didn't spend too much time on the noth island. Really enjoyed Christchurch and especially Queenstown. Great place you guys have. Would love to come back. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Video capture using Dazzle Digital Video Creator 120
More or less the same results on my Gentoo laptop. I'm here now: 1) No changes in modules loaded 2) No /dev/v4l directory 3) Strange dmesg results: usb 5-2: new high speed USB device using address 3 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 ... I didn't look at dmesg before I plugged it in so maybe these were here earlier. I don't know. The device is visible in usbview: Inst Video Album + Manufacturer: Pinnacle Speed: 480Mb/s (high) USB Version: 2.00 Device Class: 00(>ifc ) Device Subclass: 00 Device Protocol: 00 Maximum Default Endpoint Size: 64 Number of Configurations: 1 Vendor Id: 2304 Product Id: 0302 Revision Number: 0.00 Config Number: 1 Number of Interfaces: 1 Attributes: c0 MaxPower Needed: 100mA Interface Number: 0 Name: (none) Alternate Number: 0 Class: ff(vend.) Sub Class: 0 Protocol: 0 Number of Endpoints: 4 and then more stuff.When I disconnect it I see this in dmesg: usb 5-2: USB disconnect, address 3 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb1: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb1: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb1: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb1: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb1: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb1: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 flash mark $ Doesn't look very good. (!!) ;-) Plugging it back in I get: usb 5-2: new high speed USB device using address 4 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb1: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb1: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb1: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb4: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb2: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb1: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb1: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 usb usb1: string descriptor 0 read error: -113 flash mark $ I'll do an emerge sync and make sure nothing is way out of date. I'm not sure what I should be looking for in my kernel's .config file: flash linux # cat .config | grep VIDEO CONFIG_IEEE1394_VIDEO1394=m CONFIG_VIDEO_DEV=m # CONFIG_VIDEO_BT848 is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_PMS is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_BWQCAM is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_CQCAM is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_W9966 is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_CPIA is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_SAA5246A is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_SAA5249 is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_STRADIS is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_ZORAN is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_SAA7134 is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_MXB is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_DPC is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_HEXIUM_ORION is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_HEXIUM_GEMINI is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_CX88 is not set # CONFIG_VIDEO_OVCAMCHIP is not set CONFIG_VIDEO_SELECT=y flash linux # cat .config | grep V4 flash linux # Thanks much, Mark On Apr 4, 2005 5:20 PM, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Apr 4, 2005 4:54 PM, Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I assume it is a video for linux (v4l) or v4l2 driver, in which case > > when the modules loads it should create a device called something like > > /dev/v4l/video0 > > Humm...could that be a problem? I'll have to look and see if Video for > Linux is even compiled. > > > > > What is the module that gets loaded when you plug the thing in anyway? > > (lsmod before and after should tell you) > > OK, the Gentoo laptop is in Win XP doing Pro Tools work at the moment > so I'll try this first on an FC2 machien sitting here. Maybe it will > tell me enough to make forward progress. > > On this machine I see no change in lsmod before and after plugging the > device in. > > > > > Take a
Re: [gentoo-user] Video capture using Dazzle Digital Video Creator 120
On Apr 4, 2005 4:54 PM, Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I assume it is a video for linux (v4l) or v4l2 driver, in which case > when the modules loads it should create a device called something like > /dev/v4l/video0 Humm...could that be a problem? I'll have to look and see if Video for Linux is even compiled. > > What is the module that gets loaded when you plug the thing in anyway? > (lsmod before and after should tell you) OK, the Gentoo laptop is in Win XP doing Pro Tools work at the moment so I'll try this first on an FC2 machien sitting here. Maybe it will tell me enough to make forward progress. On this machine I see no change in lsmod before and after plugging the device in. > > Take a look around in the /dev directory, and look at dmesg and your > kernel logs when you plug the device in. >From the end of dmesg: usb 1-7: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 7 There is apparently no /dev/v4l directory on this box: [EMAIL PROTECTED] dev]$ ls /dev/v4l ls: /dev/v4l: No such file or directory [EMAIL PROTECTED] dev]$ There is a /dev/video0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] dev]$ ls /dev/v Display all 152 possibilities? (y or n) vbivcs24 vcs44 vcs7 vcsa26 vcsa46 vcsa9 vbi0 vcs25 vcs45 vcs8 vcsa27 vcsa47 video vbi1 vcs26 vcs46 vcs9 vcsa28 vcsa48 video0 vbi2 vcs27 vcs47 vcsa vcsa29 vcsa49 video1 vbi3 vcs28 vcs48 vcsa1 vcsa3 vcsa5 video1394 vcsvcs29 vcs49 vcsa10 vcsa30 vcsa50 video2 vcs1 vcs3 vcs5 vcsa11 vcsa31 vcsa51 video3 vcs10 vcs30 vcs50 vcsa12 vcsa32 vcsa52 vmmon vcs11 vcs31 vcs51 vcsa13 vcsa33 vcsa53 vnet0 vcs12 vcs32 vcs52 vcsa14 vcsa34 vcsa54 vnet1 vcs13 vcs33 vcs53 vcsa15 vcsa35 vcsa55 vnet2 vcs14 vcs34 vcs54 vcsa16 vcsa36 vcsa56 vnet3 vcs15 vcs35 vcs55 vcsa17 vcsa37 vcsa57 vpcmouse vcs16 vcs36 vcs56 vcsa18 vcsa38 vcsa58 vsys vcs17 vcs37 vcs57 vcsa19 vcsa39 vcsa59 vttuner vcs18 vcs38 vcs58 vcsa2 vcsa4 vcsa6 vtx vcs19 vcs39 vcs59 vcsa20 vcsa40 vcsa60 vtx0 vcs2 vcs4 vcs6 vcsa21 vcsa41 vcsa61 vtx1 vcs20 vcs40 vcs60 vcsa22 vcsa42 vcsa62 vtx2 vcs21 vcs41 vcs61 vcsa23 vcsa43 vcsa63 vtx3 vcs22 vcs42 vcs62 vcsa24 vcsa44 vcsa7 vcs23 vcs43 vcs63 vcsa25 vcsa45 vcsa8 [EMAIL PROTECTED] dev]$ Maybe FC2 is a bit different. > > xawtv is probably the simplest front end to see that you are in fact > picking up a video signal. Need to boot the Gentoo laptop now. xawtv is not on this machien either... Back in a few... Cheers, Mark > -- > Nick Rout > Barrister & Solicitor > Christchurch Ah...Christchurch...I love that town. - MWK -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Video capture using Dazzle Digital Video Creator 120
On Apr 4, 2005 12:34 PM, Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I found these with a simple google: > > gv4l - front end to transcode's v4l functions > streamer - front end to xawtv > ffmpeg - command line > kmediagrab > avicap > > I am sure there are many many others. > > actually kino will capture v4l too. > Nick, Thanks. I was looking at a couple of these yesterday. I think they might work, or at least do part of the job, if I could figure out how to tell them about the Dazzle device. So far that eludes me. How do I tell Kino about USB devices? Don't feel the need for big explanations if you can jsut point me toward a web site somewhere. thanks much, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Video capture using Dazzle Digital Video Creator 120
Hi, Has anyone done this? Can you recommend some Linux apps that will make video capture and relatively simple movie editing easy for my 12 year old? He's capturing XBox tricks and makes me boot my Gentoo laptop back into Win XP so that he can do the capture. The DVC120 is visible to things like usbview but after that I don't know where to turn. I tried Kino but it seemed very 1394 specific. I had bad experiences with Cinelera on another platform and am not anxious to build that unless it's significantly improved. I'm running a custom 2.6.9 kernel if it matters. Thanks in advance for your help. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Video capture using Dazzle Digital Vidio Creator 120
Hi, Has anyone done this? Can you recommend some apps that will make video capture and relatively simple movie editing easy for my 12 year old? He's capturing XBox tricks and makes me boot my Gentoo laptop back into Win XP so that he can do the capture. The DVC120 is visible to things like usbview but after that I don't know where to turn. I tried Kino but it seemed very 1394 specific. I had bad experiences with Cinelera on another platform and am not anxious to build that unless it's significantly improved. I'm running a custom 2.6.9 kernel if it matters. Thanks in advance for your help. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Monthly BugDay reminder!
On Apr 1, 2005 3:34 PM, David Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Apr 2, 2005 12:19 AM, Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:41:05 -0800 Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > | And since it's GMail I cannot control any of this. > > > > You are free to use a different email provider if you wish. As the Gentoo List Administrator is free to change the operation back to the way it was. As I said earlier, I have no problem with this one way of another. I have no problem with trying to remember to erase the duplicate, which I will try to do, and I have no problem if I forget and a duplicate gets sent. > > I don't see the problem - I'm sending this using gmail's web thing, > and all I did was click in the box, and it's going to send the email > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > If it's sending/cc'ing it anywhere else, it's not telling me about it Yes, that does work for me also. However on other lists I'm on that normally sends only the the person who sent the message to that list and not to the list itself. To get copies back to the list I have to hit reply all so that's what I normally do and why I sometimes have made mistakes in this area over the last few days. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Monthly BugDay reminder!
On Apr 1, 2005 12:19 PM, Bryan Oestergaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No, not receiving duplicates due to filtering is certainly not what I > meant by fixing your clients. I was actually hinting at clients (and > users) behaving sensible and stop sending duplicates. > > btw, I have no idea whether gmail sends duplicates or not. > > Regards, > Bryan Østergaard > I don't think it sends 'duplicates'. It sends two emails to different addresses: gentoo-user@gentoo.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] The fact that the list administrator has decided to send email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] along to me (and you) is like signing me up to a list I didn't want to sigh up for. I signed up to receive email from one address. I get it from two? (If it happens at all. I don't know. I don't see it.) And since it's GMail I cannot control any of this. All I can say is that, in advance, I'm sorry for all the times in the future when I hit reply-all, since that's what I HAVE to do to reply to the 25 other lists I am subscribed to, and the list gets two copies. Gentoo-User can be the one odd ball if it wants to be. I'll try to be a good citizen, but so far I've hit reply-all at least 20 times and had to erase the entry by hand, just like I did this time... Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Monthly BugDay reminder!
On Apr 1, 2005 9:34 AM, A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, 1 Apr 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Obviously. That's why you're still posting to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Why not make that email address bounce back to the sender? Im sure it will > sink in faster :-) > OK by me. GMail recognizes this is happening. Through this whole silly change over I've never received a duplicate email, either from my mistakes or those mistakes by others. This problem is a non problem for me no matter whether I hit reply or reply-all. Is that what the devs meant by 'fix your client'? If so, mine's fixed! ;-) Happy April 1st. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Monthly BugDay reminder!
On Apr 1, 2005 8:39 AM, Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 22:10:00 +1200 Nick Rout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > | I say again, no other list I am on exhibits this problem, just bloody > | change it back the the way it used to be, right, wrong or debateable > | in technical terms. what is easiest and most convenient for the > | majority of users, and causes the least annoyances, is the "right" > | config > > gentoo-user is the only list where that change was causing problems. > None of the other lists are having problems with it. I wonder why? April Fool's Joke? Because we user's are stupid? ;-) I don't like the change but I can live with it if it must be. (I know that it doesn't have to be except for someone else in power saying so...) Anyway, please forgive me in advance if I send two copies to the list once in awhile. It will happen even if I pay attention. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo for the Windows NT Kernel
> >It's got to be an april fool's joke... > Has to be. Why else would it use "NT" and "comercial-grade" in the same > paragraph? Not really. Don't you know that GENTOO == Gee Everyone NT's Object Oriented? I'm not a programmer but I hear that Object Oriented programming makes it trivial to port anything to anything. I'm not the least bit surprised to hear this... - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: No disk space
Replying to self: Found this after a few more minutes. Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=30547 Cheers, Mark On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:47:56 -0800, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, >It's been a long time since I ran into all disk space getting used > up and I've forgotten where portage is putting downloaded files. Where > are the basic packages stored so that I can erase some and get going > again? > > Thanks, > Mark > -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] No disk space
Hi, It's been a long time since I ran into all disk space getting used up and I've forgotten where portage is putting downloaded files. Where are the basic packages stored so that I can erase some and get going again? Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Users and errors (was: help "line 6: B: command not found" FIXED, user error in config file...)
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:57:10 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Dave Nebinger wrote: > > > Unfortunately, Holly, I don't think linux will be ready for the desktop for > > quite awhile (yes, that does make me sad). > > Novell disagrees: > http://business.newsforge.com/business/05/03/23/1755222.shtml?tid=152&tid=2&tid=37&tid=18 > http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=397A879F-C1BB-4CBE-A8A4-633DE1B25200 > > AT&T disagrees: > http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1103&sid=aZ2JnBlm5tOs&refer=us > > Various governments disagree: > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/29/technology/29computer.html? > > The tide is turning. Yeah, Linux on the business desktop is going to happen, or really already has in so many places. Where Linux won't happen on the desktop in any big way is in the home. Configuration is too difficult. Until all configuration for a standard home machine can be handled in gui apps somewhere it won't work since Grandma and her 7 year old grand daughter cannot be expect to run vi. My now 12 going on 13 year old son has never had anything other than Linux. He got his first machine at 8 or 9. He used to bitch about things here and there, and still does once in awhile, but with Cedega he can play Half Life. He does all homework with Open Office and the Gimp. He and I are trying to set up some sort of video capture/movie edit setup for him to capture XBox things he wants to show people. It works. Kids are very adaptable. They will complain but it stops pretty quickly. I wanted mine on Linux because I especially didn't want a kid using Windows on my network. It's bad enough with an adult doing it. My biggest worry now is Internet predators. I wish there was a real solution for that sort of stuff under Linux, like Net-nanny etc. under Windows. That's what scares me as a parent. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Local vs. remote startx/Gnome
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:23:01 +0200, Hans-Werner Hilse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm very late to answer in this thread and i must admit that I didn't > read every post so far. But it seems to me everything goes the wrong > way... > > On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:55:13 -0800 > Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I'm now logged on successfully to a remote machine. I can run X apps > > and display them here successfully. Let's say that I wanted to run > > Gnome on the machine at the other end but see it displayed here on > > display #2. How can I do that? If I do the same startx -- :2 it > > creates a second display at the far end. I'd like to pipe that to a > > second display here but I haven't grasped how to do that. > > > >I know it will be slow but there are reasons I need to use it > > occasionally. I figure it won't be any worse (I hope) than running > > tight-vnc. > > Well, it's exactly the same. What you're searching for seems to be "Xnest". > Starting it would look like this: > > remote$ xinit /usr/bin/pekwm -- /usr/bin/Xnest -geometry 640x480 -nolisten > tcp > > replace /usr/bin/pekwm by your actual window manager (or leave it out > to go the "normal" way that's configured for your remote user). I'm sorry. I thought I had explained that this is a mixed set of machines. 2 Gentoo and 4 FC2. I do not seem to have Xnest available on any of the FC2 machines and really don't want to go down the path of downloading and compiling anything for those 4 boxes. Thanks for the input though. > > By the way: having X listen on TCP is *not* necessary to use SSH's X > forwarding. Your problems with SSH tunneling are related to Xauth, i > think, but hopefully that stuff above is already enough information... Yes, I guess I've slowly learned that part. 1) I can run a local app and display it to display :0 2) I can use ssh and display an X app to display :0 3) Trying to run a local app and display it on display :1 fails. On an FC2 box I start Xorg in one xterm: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ Xorg :1 Release Date: 18 December 2003 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.7 Build Operating System: Linux 2.4.21-23.ELsmp i686 [ELF] Current Operating System: Linux Godzilla 2.6.10-2.1.ll.rhfc2.ccrma #1 Thu Dec 30 06:24:24 EST 2004 i686 Build Date: 24 March 2005 Build Host: bugs.build.redhat.com Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.Org to make sure that you have the latest version. Module Loader present OS Kernel: Linux version 2.6.10-2.1.ll.rhfc2.ccrma ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) (gcc version 3.3.3 20040412 (Red Hat Linux 3.3.3-7)) #1 Thu Dec 30 06:24:24 EST 2004 Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.1.log", Time: Wed Mar 30 09:12:14 2005 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" In another xterm I then attempt to run xeyes and show it on display :1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ xeyes -display :1 Xlib: connection to ":1.0" refused by server Xlib: No protocol specified Error: Can't open display: :1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ and in the original xterm where I started Xorg I see: (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.1.log", Time: Wed Mar 30 09:12:14 2005 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" AUDIT: Wed Mar 30 09:13:37 2005: 19095 Xorg: client 1 rejected from local host That certainly has nothing to do with -nolisten tcp. The results are identical on my Gentoo machines. Cheers, Mar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Local vs. remote startx/Gnome
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:57:06 -0800, John Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tuesday 29 March 2005 11:39, Mark Knecht wrote: > > > I did some Googling and it seemed to suggest that I should look at > > /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf and make sure that DisallowTCP=true is commented > > out. Actually in my file that is already commented out so I'm > > wondering if this is the right config file. It is the only one I find > > with slocate. > That one's not the problem, 'cause rXs starts a whole new Xorg instance with > no flags. OK. > > > > Is there some other config file on FC2 that effects this sort of thing? > Look through your xorg.conf. idk if it can be in there, but look anyway. Yes, I have been looking there but nothing is showing up for me. (An uneducated Xorg user...) ;-) > > > > > Maybe it's somethign completely different though. > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ xeyes > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ xeyes -display :0 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ xeyes -display :0.0 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ xeyes -display :1 > > Xlib: connection to ":1.0" refused by server > > Xlib: No protocol specified > > > > Error: Can't open display: :1 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ > As far as I can see, you haven't started Xorg yet. xeyes can't connect to a > display that doesn't exist. Actually, in this case I Started Xorg by hand, just using Xorg :1 I get a black (or very dark grey depending on the machine) screen with a mouse. the mouse works and I can do Alt-Ctrl-F7 to come back to this display. Then I did the commands above. All the ones directed to this display worked correctly. The ones directed at :1 fail. Possibly I should start Xorg differently to get it to listen differently, but it's failing on both tcp and local connections. I'm reading through the man pages now. This is interesting stuff. Too much for me to learn quickly though. One clue was that this sort of setup counb be overridden in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/Xsession but I don't see it. There is also stuff pertaining to this in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xdm/xdm-config but I wonder if this is truly for Xorg/gdm or whether what I need is somewhere else? All guesses right now. Thanks, Mark Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Local vs. remote startx/Gnome
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:00:15 -0800, John Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As far as the error goes, it sounds like it's a problem with FC2's X setup. > Can you see if it works *from* a Gentoo box? Also, perhaps there's something > about 'nolisten tcp' in your xorg.conf? Or in the way they built it? AFAIK, > your X server has to accept TCP connections to use SSH X forwarding. Looks like I am using the -nolisten thing. So far I've not found where to reconfigure that though... (NOTE: Godzilla is FC2. My Gentoo box is rebuilding at this time.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# ps aux | grep nolisten root 3119 1.7 3.6 30320 28036 ? S07:28 4:03 /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 -audit 0 -auth /var/gdm/:0.Xauth -nolisten tcp vt7 root 14405 0.0 0.0 3588 616 pts/1S11:25 0:00 grep nolisten [EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# I did some Googling and it seemed to suggest that I should look at /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf and make sure that DisallowTCP=true is commented out. Actually in my file that is already commented out so I'm wondering if this is the right config file. It is the only one I find with slocate. Is there some other config file on FC2 that effects this sort of thing? Maybe it's somethign completely different though. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ xeyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ xeyes -display :0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ xeyes -display :0.0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ xeyes -display :1 Xlib: connection to ":1.0" refused by server Xlib: No protocol specified Error: Can't open display: :1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ As I understand this protocol using :1.0 or :0.0 is local communication while Godzilla:1.0 would be tcpip based. If that's true I cannot even start an app from display :0 on display :1 locally! Thanks in advance, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Ssh DSA/RSA log in
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:01:34 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, Pupeno wrote: > > > Even if id_dsa.pub and authorized_keys is group and world readable, it > > doesn't > > work. > > On the servers I used key auth with the .ssh folder is 0700 (i.e. > drwx--) while the authorized_keys file is 0644 (rw-r--r--). I haven't followed this thread, but yesterday I found this site withnice instructions for setting up shared keys and auto login. I've set it up on 5 machines now. Seems to be working nicely. They recommended 640. http://bumblebee.lcs.mit.edu/ssh2/ I'm sure 644 probably works also. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Local vs. remote startx/Gnome
Thanks for your help! More info below. On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:00:15 -0800, John Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Monday 28 March 2005 16:48, Mark Knecht wrote: > > On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 16:11:38 -0800, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > I'm not clear whether the localhost:11.0 is this machine (Godzilla) or > > whether it's Dragonfly. I hope it's this machine and this is a matter > > of just letting Dragonfly have access to the display. > localhost:11.0 is on Dragonfly. ssh sets up a proxy X server on the remote > host which just forwards the X protocol to the local host (Godzilla) through > the ssh connection. > > > Can I assume that since it's 11:0 that is trying to get to display :2 > > on this machine? (Godzilla) > Actually, based on the diagnostic output I accidentally left in, it's using > display :1. (I wrote it so it would automatically find the first available > display number, so you can actually run it multiple times concurrently, once > we get it working.) OK. I think I see that in some of the data below. The first time it says 0:0, the second time it says 0:0 1:1? Did I possibly miss some step like some specific configuration in /etc/ssh/sshd_config? Currently the only active lines in my files are: Protocol 2 PasswordAuthentication no UsePAM yes Subsystem sftp/usr/lib/misc/sftp-server > > As far as the error goes, it sounds like it's a problem with FC2's X setup. > Can you see if it works *from* a Gentoo box? Also, perhaps there's something > about 'nolisten tcp' in your xorg.conf? Or in the way they built it? AFAIK, > your X server has to accept TCP connections to use SSH X forwarding. All of these machines can receive and display individual X apps via ssh. It's only this aspect of using them on the second display that so far doesn't work. OK, I tried from my Gentoo laptop to both a local FC2 machine (Dragonfly) and a remote Gentoo machine. (thevillas) Both failed identically: flash mark $ ./rXs Dragonfly 0:0 X Window System Version 6.8.0 Release Date: 8 September 2004 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.8 Build Operating System: Linux 2.6.9-rc2-mm4-VP-S7-UMP-noACPI i686 [ELF] Current Operating System: Linux flash 2.6.9-rc2-mm4-VP-S7-UMP-noACPI #8 Tue Oct 19 18:51:12 PDT 2004 i686 Build Date: 20 February 2005 Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.Org to make sure that you have the latest version. Module Loader present Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.1.log", Time: Tue Mar 29 09:05:18 2005 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" Using vt 8 (EE) RADEON(0): [dri] DRIScreenInit failed. Disabling DRI. Could not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/CID/, removing from list! Could not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/local/, removing from list! Could not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/Speedo/, removing from list! AUDIT: Tue Mar 29 09:05:24 2005: 25819 Xorg: client 1 rejected from local host Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding. AUDIT: Tue Mar 29 09:05:24 2005: 25819 Xorg: client 1 rejected from local host Auth name: MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 ID: -1 Xlib: connection to "localhost:10.0" refused by server Xlib: Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key (gnome-session:5957): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: flash mark $ flash mark $ ./rXs thevillas 0:0 1:1 X Window System Version 6.8.0 Release Date: 8 September 2004 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.8 Build Operating System: Linux 2.6.9-rc2-mm4-VP-S7-UMP-noACPI i686 [ELF] Current Operating System: Linux flash 2.6.9-rc2-mm4-VP-S7-UMP-noACPI #8 Tue Oct 19 18:51:12 PDT 2004 i686 Build Date: 20 February 2005 Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.Org to make sure that you have the latest version. Module Loader present Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.2.log", Time: Tue Mar 29 09:07:28 2005 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" Using vt 9 (EE) RADEON(0): [dri] DRIScreenInit failed. Disabling DRI. Could not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/CID/, removing from list! Could not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/local/, removing from list! Could not init font path element /usr/share/fonts/Speedo/, removing from list! AUDIT: Tue Mar 29 09:07:34 2005: 25853 Xorg: client 1 rejected from local host Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding. AUDIT: Tue Mar 29 09:07:34 2005: 2
Re: [gentoo-user] Local vs. remote startx/Gnome
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 16:11:38 -0800, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Here's a little shell script I wrote to do this just now. It should work at > > least on Gentoo clients. Note that I had a problem when sshing to localhost > > that it would unset DISPLAY, but it worked when sshing to my server. YMMV > > Hi John, >Thanks for working on this. I set rXs up as a bash file, gave it > execute rights and fired it off, first against a local FC2 remote > machine and second against a distant Gentoo remote machine. In both > cases the script seems to fail looking for my password. > >I think this must be assuming the 'passwordless X session that Jeff > Smelser talked about yesterday? I'll have to go look for how to do > that. I presume that it's an sshd config option at the far end. That > scares me a bit as it would seem to open up the machine to who knows > what problems. I watch the logs on one of these boxes and I see all > sorts of kiddie scripts trying to hack into Windows boxes. I don't > want that sort of problem showing up at this time. > > Thanks, > Mark > Hi, OK, with the help of this fine little page: http://bumblebee.lcs.mit.edu/ssh2/ I set up keys on both machines so I can log into either Gandalf (a Gentoo box) or Dragonfly (an FC2 box) without using a password. Now the script does pretty much what I was seeing yesterday when I was attempting much of the same thing by hand: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ ./rXs Usage: ./rXs [ []] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ ./rXs dragonfly 0:0 1:1 Release Date: 18 December 2003 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.7 Build Operating System: Linux 2.4.21-25.ELsmp i686 [ELF] Current Operating System: Linux Godzilla 2.6.10-2.1.ll.rhfc2.ccrma #1 Thu Dec 30 06:24:24 EST 2004 i686 Build Date: 02 December 2004 Build Host: porky.build.redhat.com Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.X.Org to make sure that you have the latest version. Module Loader present OS Kernel: Linux version 2.6.10-2.1.ll.rhfc2.ccrma ([EMAIL PROTECTED] ) (gcc version 3.3.3 20040412 (Red Hat Linux 3.3.3-7)) #1 Thu Dec 30 06:24:24 ES T 2004 Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.2.log", Time: Mon Mar 28 16:42:03 2005 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/xorg.conf" Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding. AUDIT: Mon Mar 28 16:42:06 2005: 8438 Xorg: client 1 rejected from local host Auth name: MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 ID: -1 Xlib: connection to "localhost:11.0" refused by server Xlib: Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key (gnome-session:12193): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ The X server is started locally. Alt-Ctrl-F8 gets me there, F7 gets me back again, but I get the same connection refused message. I'm not clear whether the localhost:11.0 is this machine (Godzilla) or whether it's Dragonfly. I hope it's this machine and this is a matter of just letting Dragonfly have access to the display. Can I assume that since it's 11:0 that is trying to get to display :2 on this machine? (Godzilla) Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Local vs. remote startx/Gnome
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:19:53 -0800, John Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sunday 27 March 2005 15:11, Mark Knecht wrote: > > Don't forget to start the X server (Xfree, Xorg, or Xnest) on :2 before > running that. You shouldn't need to use xhost, ssh takes care of that for > you. Also, you might need to use -Y on the ssh line. > > >Is this possibly because I don't have specific ports open? > No, since the connection is tunneled through SSH > > > > >Not sure about the Xnest suggestion as this is a network of both > > Gentoo and FC2 machines and my FC2 machines do not seem to have Xnest. > > It doesn't matter if the other systems have it. Since it's just an X server, > it only runs on the local system. Clients don't care what kind of server they > connect to. > > Here's a little shell script I wrote to do this just now. It should work at > least on Gentoo clients. Note that I had a problem when sshing to localhost > that it would unset DISPLAY, but it worked when sshing to my server. YMMV Hi John, Thanks for working on this. I set rXs up as a bash file, gave it execute rights and fired it off, first against a local FC2 remote machine and second against a distant Gentoo remote machine. In both cases the script seems to fail looking for my password. I think this must be assuming the 'passwordless X session that Jeff Smelser talked about yesterday? I'll have to go look for how to do that. I presume that it's an sshd config option at the far end. That scares me a bit as it would seem to open up the machine to who knows what problems. I watch the logs on one of these boxes and I see all sorts of kiddie scripts trying to hack into Windows boxes. I don't want that sort of problem showing up at this time. Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Any posters getting bounce messages?
Dave, Yes, I'm getting them. (I will from answering this message also!) ;-) It started the same time the list changes started requiring me to delete the Cc: entry also. I think this 'conversion' isn't going so well yet. - Mark On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:13:26 -0500, Dave Nebinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm getting bounces from [EMAIL PROTECTED] I thought the mailing list > was set up to auto-unregister folks when the bounce messages are returned? > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 11:10 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure) > > This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. > > Delivery to the following recipients failed. > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > > -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] fix your client, please
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 14:48:19 +0100, Graham Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Holly Bostick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Why? Isn't the point of replying to a mailing list to send the response > > to the sender, which is the list? > > Yes, which is why the correct response for the mailing list software > is to send replies to the list and not to the author of the message > being replied to. > > I'm not meaning to drag this 'argument' back into the spotlight again, I > > just really want to know why so many people think it makes "better" > > sense to have subscribers to a mailing list receive two replies if the > > respondent is responding to a post by the receiver. > > I don't think so. I think that software which sends 2 copies is > broken unless the author has set the 'Mail-Followup-To:' header to > specifically request a direct reply. > > There are two things which I find annoying about mailing lists > (neither of which are the fault of the list server/owner). The first > is when, having posted, the author of the message receives a number of > non-delivery notifications. Sorry. I really haven't been reading this thread so I'll likely step into something, but let me make one or two points that have probably already been made: 1) The administration of this list has changed. I have messages from last year here in my GMail account. If I hit reply-all on those message one copy goes to the list and one copy goes to the sender. It's not my client that's changed it's the way the messages are being sent. 2) GMail understands that if I get two identical copies of the same message, one addressed to me and one addressed to the list then it apparently only keeps one copy. I had no problems with that. I supposed other clients might not have been so kind. 3) From my POV [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] are different users. I assume that the system WANTS me to reply to them all. why should I be responsible to deciding which 4) The 'traditional', and most important I think, reason that a 'reply' doesn't go back to the list to the case where someone gets mad about something and folks start flaming. Hitting reply sends a message to the person, not the list. I think that's good taste. As this list is now set up you have to cut and paste to do that. I don't mind that. Anyway, I'll do my bit to remember that this list and only this list requires me to hit reply where as all the others I'm all require me to hit reply-to. Heat suit on, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Local vs. remote startx/Gnome
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 14:25:59 -0800, John Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sunday 27 March 2005 09:31, John Myers wrote: > > On Sunday 27 March 2005 08:35, Mark Knecht wrote: > > >What I actually want to do is start Gnome on the remote box and see > > > the whole Gnome desktop on my local box's second display. I do not > > > want to upset the locally running window manager. Any ideas on how I > > > do that? > > > Here's another idea: > I don't have GNOME, so I don't know the command to start it, but try this: > > local$ Xorg :2 > local$ export DISLPAY=:2 > local$ ssh -X remote <> # _not_ startx > Hi, This seems to be getting closer. At least both sides keep trying. OK, I seemed to get the closest to successy by doing this. (Dragonfly is a local machine on my network.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ xhost +Dragonfly Dragonfly being added to access control list [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ export DISPLAY=:2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ ssh -X dragonfly /usr/bin/gnome-session [EMAIL PROTECTED]'s password: Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding. Xlib: connection to "localhost:10.0" refused by server Xlib: Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key (gnome-session:9576): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mark]$ Is this possibly because I don't have specific ports open? Not sure about the Xnest suggestion as this is a network of both Gentoo and FC2 machines and my FC2 machines do not seem to have Xnest. Thanks for your ideas! Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Local vs. remote startx/Gnome
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 12:06:27 -0600, Jeff Smelser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Saturday 26 March 2005 05:55 pm, Mark Knecht wrote: > > > I'm now logged on successfully to a remote machine. I can run X apps > > and display them here successfully. Let's say that I wanted to run > > Gnome on the machine at the other end but see it displayed here on > > display #2. How can I do that? If I do the same startx -- :2 it > > creates a second display at the far end. I'd like to pipe that to a > > second display here but I haven't grasped how to do that. > > Little google'in produced: > > http://www.issociate.de/board/post/28886/remote_X_sessions.html Interesting read, but I think it's probably too far over my head.. Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Local vs. remote startx/Gnome
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 09:31:03 -0800, John Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sunday 27 March 2005 08:35, Mark Knecht wrote: > >What I actually want to do is start Gnome on the remote box and see > > the whole Gnome desktop on my local box's second display. I do not > > want to upset the locally running window manager. Any ideas on how I > > do that? > > > Do you run *dm on the remote box? If so, you might want to read up on XDMCP > which can do what you want, though I don't know how to ssh-tunnel it (if you > want to do that) I do not (currently) run *dm on the remote machine. I do run one locally.) I may have to look into that more. Not sure. I Really don't understand this yet. Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Local vs. remote startx/Gnome
On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 21:17:44 -0500, Calvin Walton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:55:13 -0800, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ssh -X -Y -C -c blowfish -l mark IP-address > > > > I'm now logged on successfully to a remote machine. I can run X apps > > and display them here successfully. Let's say that I wanted to run > > Gnome on the machine at the other end but see it displayed here on > > display #2. How can I do that? If I do the same startx -- :2 it > > creates a second display at the far end. I'd like to pipe that to a > > second display here but I haven't grasped how to do that. > > Ssh forwards windows from the remote computer to whatever display you > have set in your DISPLAY variable on the local computer. > > So, in this case, you would want to start the xserver on your local > computer, then run > > DISPLAY=:2 ssh -X -Y -C -c blowfish -l mark IP-address > > to forward apps on the remote computer to your second local display > Calvin, Thanks for the response. This does indeed work, but doesn't do what I want to do. This will display an app like Evolution running on the remote box on my second display instead of the first display. That's cool but it requires some window manager like Gnome be running here locally. What I actually want to do is start Gnome on the remote box and see the whole Gnome desktop on my local box's second display. I do not want to upset the locally running window manager. Any ideas on how I do that? Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Local vs. remote startx/Gnome
Hi, On my local machines when one user is using the machine I can go to a terminal using Alt-Ctrl-Fx and then after logging in do 'startx -- :2'. At this point I get a second copy of X running on F8 and I can use the system while the other user's account remains logged on. How do I do this for a remote machine? Assume that I do ssh -X -Y -C -c blowfish -l mark IP-address I'm now logged on successfully to a remote machine. I can run X apps and display them here successfully. Let's say that I wanted to run Gnome on the machine at the other end but see it displayed here on display #2. How can I do that? If I do the same startx -- :2 it creates a second display at the far end. I'd like to pipe that to a second display here but I haven't grasped how to do that. I know it will be slow but there are reasons I need to use it occasionally. I figure it won't be any worse (I hope) than running tight-vnc. Thanks in advance, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] How much signal strngth is required to be reliable?
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:15:19 -0800, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:00:12 +0800, William Kenworthy > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What kind of router? I have found that position is very important. > > Place base station well away from other objects (use an extension cable > > if needed), and above desktop clutter etc > > > > e.g., one monitor near the wireless base, + users body in line of sight > > means very poor (but usable signal). User moves out of the way, signal > > moves to v.good. Raise base above monitor, signal improves again. > > > > BillK > > Bill, >Yes, I've done that sort of stuff already. That, along with messing > with antenna direction and orientation helped, but it's still not > reliable. > >Does that signal strength number in iwconfig mean anything? What > sort of value to do you get? > > Thanks, > Mark > I got my laptop working. It's a different wireless chip (Broadcom vs. Realtek in my wife's machine) and then wandered around the house getting some numbers: -13db 12" from the router -36db here at my desk -50db in my son's room -63db in my wife's office -73db in the kitchen My wife see's around -58db in her office where I'm seeing -63db, so they're close. Even at -73db in the kitcen I was able to link the aptop to the router and get to the net using Mozilla. However I cannot depend on my wife's machine to be a reliable file server for serving up music files realtime. Very often all the machines in the house just stop receiving music... - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] How much signal strngth is required to be reliable?
On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:00:12 +0800, William Kenworthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What kind of router? I have found that position is very important. > Place base station well away from other objects (use an extension cable > if needed), and above desktop clutter etc > > e.g., one monitor near the wireless base, + users body in line of sight > means very poor (but usable signal). User moves out of the way, signal > moves to v.good. Raise base above monitor, signal improves again. > > BillK Bill, Yes, I've done that sort of stuff already. That, along with messing with antenna direction and orientation helped, but it's still not reliable. Does that signal strength number in iwconfig mean anything? What sort of value to do you get? Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] How much signal strngth is required to be reliable?
Hi, Hi. Mixed Gentoo/FC2 network. My wife and son use wireless connections but they are not reliable. Typically their machines see something on the order of -50db. Is this too low to be reliable? wlan0 Scan completed : Cell 01 - Address: 00:09:5B:XX:YY:ZZ ESSID:"" Protocol:IEEE 802.11b Mode:Managed Frequency:2.462GHz Quality:0/100 Signal level:-51 dBm Noise level:-256 dBm Encryption key:on Bit Rate:1Mb/s Bit Rate:2Mb/s Bit Rate:5.5Mb/s Bit Rate:11Mb/s Bit Rate:6Mb/s Bit Rate:12Mb/s Bit Rate:24Mb/s Bit Rate:36Mb/s Bit Rate:35Mb/s Bit Rate:1.5Mb/s Bit Rate:2.5Mb/s Extra:bcn_int=100 Extra:atim=0 IWCONFIG: wlan0 IEEE 802.11b ESSID:"removed" Nickname:"dragonfly" Mode:Managed Frequency:2.462GHz Access Point: 00:09:5B:XX:YY:ZZ Bit Rate=11Mb/s Tx-Power:20 dBm Sensitivity=0/3 RTS thr=2432 B Fragment thr=2432 B Encryption key:removed Security mode:restricted Power Management:off Link Quality:100/100 Signal level:-59 dBm Noise level:-256 dBm Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 IFCONFIG: wlan0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:11:95:AA:BB:CC inet addr:192.168.10.52 Bcast:192.168.10.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 inet6 addr: removed/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:36733 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:37384 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:29214139 (27.8 Mb) TX bytes:4654251 (4.4 Mb) Interrupt:22 Memory:f9001000-f9001024 It doesn't seem to be 'errors' as much as maybe the connection is getting dropped and setup again as the day goes on. Any ideas how I can make this better? My wireless router cannot add an external antenna. I Can add them to both machines but that's a bit pricey. thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo on a MiniMac?
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:36:21 -0500 (EST), A. Khattri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, Nick Rout wrote: > > > are you talking about portage on top of MacOS X (ppc-macos) or native > > linux (ppc)? > > I meant Portage on top of OS X yes. So that's a pretty cool idea to me anyway. What percentage of programs in portage will work when compiled within OS X? I suppose you probably have to manage things like your world file, etc., more aggressively so that you don't start upgrading C compilers, glibc's, etc.? Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] *SLOW* hard drive
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:39:30 -0800, Justin Patrin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I originally installed Gentoo on my server box a very long time ago > (3-4 years I think) and it's still running strong. However, I'm > noticing *big* lags when doing anything HD related. Even starting up > simple programs takes some waiting while the HD is accessed. During > large operations (say another box rsyncing to this one) it's much much > slower thanit should be. I've checked top and my CPU is 90+% waiting > for IO. This is certainly not right. There is plenty of unused RAM, no > active swapping is being done AFAIK. > > I formatted my main partition with ReiserFS 3.6. It's worked fine up > until now (and my new Gentoo box seems wiht with ReiserFS). This feels > like a disk fragmentation issue, although I have no way to back that > up. > > Does anyone have any tips for me? It sounds like you do not have DMA enabled for this drive. I'm hesitant to give instructions as enabling DMA on some older machines is documented by kernel folks as potentially a bad thing. (Causes corruption, etc.) That said you can look at the status using hdparm /dev/hda (change as needed) and you can check speed using hdparm -tT /dev/hda If you have DMA enabled then the speed should be 10's of MB and low CPU. If not then <5MB and lots of CPU. Good luck, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Running multiple X logins
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:17:21 -0500, Bill Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 16:09 Sat 26 Feb , Ric de France wrote: > > Brett, > > > > On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:44:44 -0500 (EST), Brett I. Holcomb > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I start up using xdm and get an login window on vt7 from which I can > > > login. However, if I got to another console (say vt5) and run startx I am > > > told that display 0 is in use - well of course it is! I have > > > /etc/X11/xdm/Xservers setup as this: > > > > > > :0 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X > > > :1 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X > > > > > > I've checked the bug about pam_env.conf messing up things so I commented > > > out the display and Xauth lines but still does not work. > > > > > > What is the proper way to stop and restart X when running in this mode? I > > > tried /etc/init.d/xdm restart and that simply gives me a grey X screen > > > with a cursor instead of a login box. > > > > I don't know if this will help, but from the new virtual terminal line, try: > > > > $ startx -- :1 & > > > > The & is optional. That should start up another X display. You can > > then swap between them using Ctrl+Alt+Fx buttons... > > I tried: > > "startxfce4 -- :1 &" > > and it works as well. Cool! > I tried this on one of my audio machines. It works nicely. Seems to me that this is almost good enough to be useful in a multiuser environment. Would it be possibly to do something like this: 1) Alt-Ctrl-Del takes you to a gdm login screen 2) You enter your name and password. The system figures out what display to give you and starts your X session. 3) Alt-Ctrl-F1-6 still take you to consoles from any user account. 4) If you are in any console or in any display other than your own and you hit Alt-Ctrl-F6-8 then the system requires you to give a password appropriate for the user account that has that display. 5) No user can shutdown or reboot unless there are no other users logged in. I don't know if all of that is possible, but it would be cool if it could be set up. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] /proc/mounts /etc/fstab conflict?
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:59:15 -0800 (PST), maxim wexler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I have a fat32 partition on another drive /dev/hda5 > which is listed in /etc/fstab like this: > > /dev/hda5 /home/blissfix/fat vfat auto,user o o > > But as user I have no access, only as root. > > cat /proc/mounts reveals: > > /dev/hda5 /home/blissfix/fat vfat > rw,nodiratime,nosuid,nodev,noexec,fmask=0033,dmask=0033 > 0 0 > > not sure what this means but even as root chown gives: > > chown: Changing ownership of '/home/blissfix/fat/*': > operation not permitted. > > BTW, /home is part of my root partition: > > /dev/hdb3 / reiserfs noatime 0 1 Hi, I mount mine like this: /dev/sda2 /home/mark/Gigs vfatrw,noauto,user 0 0 Note that I had to make the Gigs directory as user mark, then su to root and do a chown and chgrp of /home/mark/Gigs to mark:users. (With the drive NOT mounted) After that change mounting the drive and writing to it was no problem. The message about 'operation not permitted' is most likely because FAT does not support owner:group:world permissions. Hope this helps, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] wow! 463 packages emerged and only one failure
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 00:50:32 +0100, Leif B. Kristensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tuesday 22 February 2005 06:07, Aaron Walker wrote: > > Mark Knecht wrote: > > > The Gentoo developers and package maintainers really do a great job > > > of making Gentoo work. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Thanks for the thanks! Sometimes users forget we volunteer to do > > this stuff, so it's nice to see these kind of mails every once in a > > while ;) > > While I certainly agree with Mark in what a remarkably great job the > Gentoo developer's community are doing, I'm a little uncertain about > the meaning of running emerge -e. > > Okay, it's nice to have the opportunity of doing so, but I can't help > the feeling that you could accomplish exactly the same with a normal, > incremental emerge over time. The other alternative is of course if you > have done something really radical with your USE flags, you may run an > emerge -avuD --newuse world, as I have done a couple of times. But I > can't, for the life of me, see the reason to run a full reemerge of > everything unless something is seriously broken. > > In which case I rather do a complete reinstall, -- God forbid. > -- > Leif Hi Leif, In general I completely agree. This machine has been very stable and up for about 15 months at my dad's place. He dropped Windows and became a Gentoo user. Everything had gone very well just doing the normal emerge sync / emerge world routing for a long time. Recently the machine developed a strange problem where Evolution wouldn't connect to the Internet. I messed for days with all the stuff you would normally guess to be the root cause of that sort of thing but nothing we did got it to work. Researching on the Internet I found it to be a fairly common problem and that about 60% of people who had the problem fixed it with the distro equivalent of emerge -e gnome. Sort of as a last resort I tried that since I figured it could get done overnight. It rebuilt about 260 packages and Evolution was fixed. At that point I could have stopped but since my dad was traveling and the machine was just sitting there, and because the emerge -e gnome had emerged a new glibc and gcc, a new xorg-x11 and a few other pretty basic things, I decided that I'd like to do the other 200 packages not covered by emerge -e gnome. Not thinking it was worth the time to script the whole thing I just kicked off the -e world, which rebuilt the same 260 packages a second time, along with the other 210 or so that were not covered. It all worked except for 1 package (nforce-audio) and that one is fixed in ~x86. Anyway, I really agree. I don't like the idea of completely rebuilding the machine just because something doesn't work. Over time you are pretty much correct - everything gets rebuilt, but iIn this case, with him out of town and the opportunity in front of me to make the machine like brand new, I didn't see any reason not to try. Gentoo is really a pretty amazing distribution and the developers do a great job. I just wanted to say thanks. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -e, skip ahead?
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:47:24 -0500, Jesse Guardiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just do: > > > > emerge --resume > > I don't think that works with -e. I tried it and got > an error message stating that there was nothing to > resume. I think --resume only resumes individual emerges, > not batch operations. > > Either that or it doesn't work after a reboot Hi, It does work with emerge -e world. I had to use it this weekend. However one time I did have the same results as you. I had a network crash and lost access to the machine doing the emerge. When I returned to it later the resutls were as you showed. To get beyond this I learned screen this weekend: screen to start C-a C-d to detatch screen -D -R to reattach C-a " to list the screen list I did 463 packages starting yesterday. Only one failed and there is already a ~x86 ebuild for that issue. I used screen extensively while all of this was going on. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] wow! 463 packages emerged and only one failure
Amazing results. emerge -e world required 463 packages be emerged on my system. With only one exception they all worked first time. The one failure (nforce-audio) apprears to be a real problem so I submited a bug report. The Gentoo developers and package maintainers really do a great job of making Gentoo work. Thanks! - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: yet another "emerge world wants alsa-driver" thread...
On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 04:08:35 -0800, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think I'm not doing this right though as I've even tried removing > alsa-jack from the world file (assuming a # removes it...) and that > doesn't stop the system from getting alsa-driver either. I'm very > perplexed at this point. > > Thanks very much, > Mark > Hi, OK, there was still a copy of alsa-driver on the system for some reason. emerge -C alsa-driver removed it. Now alsa-driver no longer shows up in emerge -pet world so I think I found the problem. Agree? Thanks for your pointers. If I'm on the wrong track please let me know! Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: yet another "emerge world wants alsa-driver" thread...
On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 04:11:35 -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Saturday 19 February 2005 08:28 pm, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:43:20 -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Saturday 19 February 2005 03:46 pm, Mark Knecht > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > To compound this a bit I wanted to an emerge -e world on this box in > > > > the coming week but the alsa-driver problem is there still: > > > > > > > > gandalf root # emerge -ep world | grep alsa-driver > > > > [ebuild N] media-sound/alsa-driver-1.0.8 > > > > > > Can you do emerge --verbose -pet world and post the results? That > > > will tell you what is bringing in alsa. > > > > Thanks Boyd. > > > > Of course the full results would probably be too much so here's 20 > > lines before up to 8 or so lines after. If you need more let me know. > > The full results zipped are around 8KB. > > Wow! Didn't realize it would be that big. emerge -e is pretty much everything, right? ;-) > > So, now we know which package needs to be removed from world. If you need > help editing your world file, please ask. If this package is not in your > world file, and you need more help, please follow-up with that > information. If you do want alsa, but want it provided by the kernel > sources, we may have to twiddle your virtuals, but I still know the > solution. Prey tell, oh master, what is the solution? ;-) Do I really want to remove anything from world? Or do I want to adjust what the system thinks supplies things using virtuals? That seems more correct to me. Looking at /var/cache/edb/virtuals it looks like the system really believes that it needs alsa-driver to get alsa. How do I properly change this to tell it alsa is in the kernel? virtual/alsa media-sound/alsa-driver Looking around in virtuals I also found this line: virtual/linux-sources sys-kernel/aa-sources Since we now run gentoo-dev-sources it seems I should change this line, and if that's true then I know the syntax for the alsa-driver problem also. Is this correct? virtual/linux-sources sys-kernel/gentoo-dev-sources virtual/alsa sys-kernel/gentoo-dev-sources And then further, why is the entry for headers pointing to linux-headers instead of linux26-headers? virtual/kernel sys-kernel/linux-headers gandalf root # qpkg -I | grep headers media-sound/alsa-headers * sys-kernel/linux26-headers * gandalf root # Seems that possibly I should change that also? None of this seems like magic. Portage/emerge is really very sensible, but I don't want to make too many changes here. Maybe there's a Gentoo docs page that talks more about these changes? Since virtuals is small I'm attaching a proposed version with 4 edits: virtual/blackbox x11-wm/fluxbox virtual/xft x11-base/xorg-x11 virtual/gzip app-arch/gzip virtual/glu x11-base/xorg-x11 virtual/x11 x11-base/xorg-x11 virtual/lpr net-print/cups virtual/libc sys-libs/glibc virtual/cdrtools app-cdr/cdrtools virtual/cron sys-apps/vixie-cron virtual/modutils sys-apps/module-init-tools sys-apps/modutils virtual/logger app-admin/metalog virtual/aspell-dict app-dicts/aspell-en virtual/bootloader sys-boot/grub virtual/opengl media-video/nvidia-glx x11-base/xorg-x11 virtual/linux-sources sys-kernel/gentoo-dev-sources #virtual/linux-sources sys-kernel/aa-sources virtual/textbrowser net-www/lynx virtual/jre dev-java/blackdown-jre dev-java/blackdown-jdk virtual/glibc sys-libs/glibc virtual/dhcpc net-misc/dhcpcd sys-apps/console-tools sys-apps/kbd virtual/editor app-editors/vim app-editors/vi app-editors/nano virtual/jdk dev-java/blackdown-jdk virtual/jack media-sound/jack-audio-connection-kit virtual/dev-manager sys-fs/devfsd virtual/os-headers sys-kernel/linux26-headers #virtual/os-headers sys-kernel/linux-headers virtual/python dev-lang/python virtual/kernel sys-kernel/linux26-headers #virtual/kernel sys-kernel/linux-headers virtual/alsa media-sound/gentoo-dev-sources #virtual/alsa media-sound/alsa-driver virtual/motif x11-libs/openmotif virtual/java-scheme dev-java/blackdown-jre dev-java/blackdown-jdk virtual/mpg123 media-sound/mpg123 virtual/ghostscript app-text/ghostscript virtual/ssh net-misc/openssh virtual/quicktime media-libs/libquicktime virtual/glut media-libs/glut virtual/mta mail-mta/ssmtp Unfortunatey this didn't seem to change anything so I'm clearly not on the right track: [ebuild N] media-plugins/alsa-jack-1.0.8 0 kB [ebuild N] media-sound/jack-audio-connection-kit-0.99.0-r1 +alsa (-altivec) -caps -debug -doc +jack-tmpfs +oss -portaudio 0 kB [ebuild N] dev-util/pkgconfig-0.15.0 0 kB [ebuild N] media-libs/libsndfile-1.0.11 -static 0 kB [ebuild N]
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: yet another "emerge world wants alsa-driver" thread...
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:43:20 -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Saturday 19 February 2005 03:46 pm, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > To compound this a bit I wanted to an emerge -e world on this box in > > the coming week but the alsa-driver problem is there still: > > > > gandalf root # emerge -ep world | grep alsa-driver > > [ebuild N] media-sound/alsa-driver-1.0.8 > > Can you do emerge --verbose -pet world and post the results? That will > tell you what is bringing in alsa. > Thanks Boyd. Of course the full results would probably be too much so here's 20 lines before up to 8 or so lines after. If you need more let me know. The full results zipped are around 8KB. Is it alsa-jack that's doing this? Or do I look the other way as gentoo-dev-sources follows by a couple of lines? [ebuild N] x11-base/opengl-update-2.0_pre5 0 kB [ebuild N] x11-misc/ttmkfdir-3.0.9-r2 -debug 0 kB [ebuild N] sys-devel/libtool-1.5.10-r4 (-uclibc) 0 kB [ebuild N] media-libs/fontconfig-2.2.3 0 kB [ebuild N] media-libs/freetype-2.1.5-r1 -bindist -cjk -debug -doc +zlib 0 kB [ebuild N] media-libs/libpng-1.2.8 -debug 0 kB [ebuild N] media-sound/alsa-utils-1.0.8 0 kB [ebuild N] dev-util/dialog-1.0.20040731 -unicode 0 kB [ebuild N] sys-apps/pciutils-2.1.11-r3 -debug 84 kB [ebuild N] media-plugins/alsa-jack-1.0.8 0 kB [ebuild N] media-sound/jack-audio-connection-kit-0.99.0-r1 +alsa (-altivec) -caps -debug -doc +jack-tmpfs +oss -portaudio 0 kB [ebuild N] dev-util/pkgconfig-0.15.0 0 kB [ebuild N] media-libs/libsndfile-1.0.11 -static 0 kB [ebuild N] media-libs/alsa-lib-1.0.8 -doc +jack 0 kB [ebuild N] media-sound/alsa-driver-1.0.8 -debug -doc +oss 0 kB [ebuild N]sys-apps/module-init-tools-3.0-r2 -debug 0 kB [ebuild N]sys-kernel/gentoo-dev-sources-2.6.10-r6 -build -doc -symlink (-ultra1) 0 kB [ebuild N] sys-devel/make-3.80-r1 -build -debug +nls -static (-uclibc) 0 kB [ebuild N] media-sound/alsa-headers-1.0.8 0 kB [ebuild N] sys-apps/man-pages-2.01 0 kB [ebuild N] sys-apps/man-1.5p -debug +nls 0 kB [ebuild N] sys-apps/cronbase-0.3.1 0 kB [ebuild N] sys-apps/sed-4.0.9 -bootstrap -build -debug +nls -static 0 kB -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: yet another "emerge world wants alsa-driver" thread...
To compound this a bit I wanted to an emerge -e world on this box in the coming week but the alsa-driver problem is there still: gandalf root # emerge -p world These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating world dependencies ...done! gandalf root # emerge -ep world | grep alsa-driver [ebuild N] media-sound/alsa-driver-1.0.8 gandalf root # On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:59:12 -0800, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, >Is hand editing /var/lib/portage/world OK? > >I had noticed this problem the other day while working on an > Evolution problem on my dad's machine. In that case I had started and > emerge -e gnome, emerge was after alsa-driver but then the alsa-driver > ebuild correctly decided to not install alsa-driver and in the end I > just worked around it. There were some inputs at the time that > possibly some other package wanted alsa-driver and that's why it was > being called. > >To investigate what's going on I've gone back and finished up the > emerge world operation on the machine. At every step along the way > emerge has wanted alsa-driver but, if I emerged the packages on the > list by hand, alsa-driver wasn't needed. I am now down to this point: > > gandalf root # uname -r > 2.6.9-gentoo-r4 > gandalf root # emerge -pv world > > These are the packages that I would merge, in order: > > Calculating world dependencies ...done! > [ebuild NS ] media-sound/alsa-driver-1.0.8 -debug -doc +oss 0 kB > > Total size of downloads: 0 kB > gandalf root # emerge -pv system > > These are the packages that I would merge, in order: > > Calculating system dependencies ...done! > > Total size of downloads: 0 kB > gandalf root # > > So it seems to me that on this system it is nothing other than the > 'world' class which is incorrectly telling portage to emerge > alsa-driver. Am I right? > > According to man emerge the world class is system plus the files > listed in /var/lib/portage/world. Looking at that file I see this: > > gandalf root # cat /var/lib/portage/world | grep alsa > media-sound/alsa-utils > media-libs/alsa-oss > media-libs/alsa-lib > media-sound/alsa-headers > media-sound/alsa-tools > media-sound/alsaplayer > media-sound/alsa-driver > media-plugins/alsa-jack > media-sound/alsa-firmware > > It would seem to me that I could remove alsa-driver from this file by > hand and the problem would likely go away but I wanted to make sure I > wasn't missing some corner case that says I shouldn't do that. If I > comment it out then emerge seems happy. Will I be happy too? > > gandalf root # emerge -pv world > > These are the packages that I would merge, in order: > > Calculating world dependencies ...done! > > Total size of downloads: 0 kB > gandalf root # > > Thanks in advance, > Mark > -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] yet another "emerge world wants alsa-driver" thread...
Hi, Is hand editing /var/lib/portage/world OK? I had noticed this problem the other day while working on an Evolution problem on my dad's machine. In that case I had started and emerge -e gnome, emerge was after alsa-driver but then the alsa-driver ebuild correctly decided to not install alsa-driver and in the end I just worked around it. There were some inputs at the time that possibly some other package wanted alsa-driver and that's why it was being called. To investigate what's going on I've gone back and finished up the emerge world operation on the machine. At every step along the way emerge has wanted alsa-driver but, if I emerged the packages on the list by hand, alsa-driver wasn't needed. I am now down to this point: gandalf root # uname -r 2.6.9-gentoo-r4 gandalf root # emerge -pv world These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating world dependencies ...done! [ebuild NS ] media-sound/alsa-driver-1.0.8 -debug -doc +oss 0 kB Total size of downloads: 0 kB gandalf root # emerge -pv system These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating system dependencies ...done! Total size of downloads: 0 kB gandalf root # So it seems to me that on this system it is nothing other than the 'world' class which is incorrectly telling portage to emerge alsa-driver. Am I right? According to man emerge the world class is system plus the files listed in /var/lib/portage/world. Looking at that file I see this: gandalf root # cat /var/lib/portage/world | grep alsa media-sound/alsa-utils media-libs/alsa-oss media-libs/alsa-lib media-sound/alsa-headers media-sound/alsa-tools media-sound/alsaplayer media-sound/alsa-driver media-plugins/alsa-jack media-sound/alsa-firmware It would seem to me that I could remove alsa-driver from this file by hand and the problem would likely go away but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some corner case that says I shouldn't do that. If I comment it out then emerge seems happy. Will I be happy too? gandalf root # emerge -pv world These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating world dependencies ...done! Total size of downloads: 0 kB gandalf root # Thanks in advance, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] cleaning up memory statistics...
Is there a command that tells Linux to really memory that is really not in use? I'm sure top is not the best app for looking at this so what app would be better? Here's a picture of my machine running Gnome and Mozilla immediately after a reboot. top - 11:02:50 up 3 min, 2 users, load average: 0.69, 0.43, 0.17 Tasks: 62 total, 1 running, 61 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie Cpu(s): 4.7% us, 0.3% sy, 0.0% ni, 95.0% id, 0.0% wa, 0.0% hi, 0.0% si Mem:775308k total, 322024k used, 453284k free,38472k buffers Swap: 1536184k total,0k used, 1536184k free, 161860k cached I was trying out a program that ended up using all of memory and about 700MB of swap. I eventually exited the program, cleanly I think, but after 15 minutes Linux said that all 775MB of main memory and 400MB of swap was still in use. I understand that swap memory (and maybe main memory) are not by default immediately given back to the system, but is there a way for me to tell the system to go collect everything and get the system back to something close to this reboot state? Thanks in advance, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Thanks for your help - Evolution runs again
Thanks to those who helped in the last two days when I had to ask some questions. I rebuilt a good portion of the machine today using emerge -e gnome and when it was done all of the Evolution problems had disappeared and everything seems to be working fine. Thanks for the help with emerge problems today. Without all of you it would have probably taken me days and brought me to tears along the way. With you all it was a great experience. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] 4 hours of emerge -e down the drain?
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:22:04 +, Etaoin Shrdlu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thursday 17 February 2005 21:09, Mark Knecht wrote: > > > Hi again, > >OK, I was another 90 minutes into the last 156 and it failed > > somewhere around #60 with the following failure: > > > > grep: /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.4/libstdc++.la: No such > > file or directory > > sed: can't read /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.4/libstdc++.la: > > No such file or directory > > libtool-disable-static: link: > > `/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.4/libstdc++.la' is not a valid > > libtool archive > > This is a possible candidate for "the most asked question of the last > weeks" :) > > I think you have to issue (as root) a > > fix_libtool_files.sh 3.3.4 > > and then the error should go away. Thanks. You're clue led to this Gentoo page http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Migrate_to_GCC_3.4 I'm a bit confused why this is occuring for gcc-3.3.5 but I'm happy for the help. Thanks. It is proceeding. Guess I should read the list more closely. I've been busy and not paying much attention. It looks like the emerge --resume skipped the flac package that originally failed so I'll go back and pick that one up by hand I guess. I presume that the 180 packages that emerged before this one are not effected by this gcc change? Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] 4 hours of emerge -e down the drain?
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:32:47 -0800, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:19:50 -0600, Andrew Gaffney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mark Knecht wrote: > > > Thanks to all. It started at 1 of 156. By my calulation that looks > > > correct: > > > > > > 103 of 260 passed > > > 104 failed > > > 1 of 156 to do > > > > > > 103+156=259 > > > > > > Looks great! Thanks! > > > > > > Now, how will I figure out why portage wanted to build alsa-driver for > > > -e gnome? Does that require reading the gnome ebuild? (A capability > > > I'm not sure I have...) > > > > It was probably something along the lines of: gnome (or one of its direct > > dependencies) depends on esound, which uses the alsa USE flag, which drags > > in > > alsa-lib, which ... > > > > Ah, OK, that makes sense and it's something a user-type like me could > look at. Thanks for the hint. > > Cheers, > Mark > Hi again, OK, I was another 90 minutes into the last 156 and it failed somewhere around #60 with the following failure: grep: /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.4/libstdc++.la: No such file or directory sed: can't read /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.4/libstdc++.la: No such file or directory libtool-disable-static: link: `/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.4/libstdc++.la' is not a valid libtool archive make[3]: *** [libxmms-flac.la] Error 1 make[3]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/flac-1.1.0-r2/work/flac-1.1.0/src/plugin_xmms'make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/flac-1.1.0-r2/work/flac-1.1.0/src' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/flac-1.1.0-r2/work/flac-1.1.0' make: *** [all] Error 2 !!! ERROR: media-libs/flac-1.1.0-r2 failed. !!! Function src_compile, Line 49, Exitcode 2 !!! (no error message) !!! If you need support, post the topmost build error, NOT this status message. gandalf root # Indeed portage or the ebuild is confused about what's getting built I think: gandalf root # ls -al /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i686-pc-linux-gnu total 12 drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Feb 10 20:07 . drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Jul 27 2003 .. drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Feb 17 08:29 3.3.5 gandalf root # How do I solve this problem? This seems serious... Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Xorg and Gnome or KDE on Gentoo
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:41:33 -0500, Dennis Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have read the DOCs, but I am missing something. I want to run X-windows on > my Gentoo box (2.6.10-gentoo-r6), but so far have been unsuccessful. It is > unclear to me whether Gnome or KDE need me to first install Xorg. When Gnome > would not emerge without error, I tried first emerging/configuring Xorg-X11, > but it will not configure correctly for me. When I run X -config, it > produces a file with an extra horizontal synch line that is all corrupted. > When I remove it, then X -config /root/xorg.conf.new will start and show a > "dotted" background like I remember from years ago using XFree86. The mouse > works because moving it around moves the mouse pointer (X). I can only get > out of it with Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, and that leaves my monitor unreadable. > > Do I need the X server for Gnome and/or KDE? If so, any ideas? > > My use flags are as follows: > > USE="gtk gnome qt kde dvd alsa cdr nptl nptlonly" > > I did an emerge --sync last week. > Dennis Taylor Hi Dennis, Do another sync emerge sync and then do your emerge gnome. Hopefully yuo'll be OK. Xorg needs to be emerged but it does not need to be configured to emerge gnome. We can deal with the xorg.conf problems when you show us what it did. Here's my current flags for one machine: USE="nvidia 3dnow nptl nptlonly tiff gimp gimpprint ppds usb jack jack-caps jack-tmpfs alsa dvd dvdread dvdr X" Take them with a grain of salt. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] 4 hours of emerge -e down the drain?
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:19:50 -0600, Andrew Gaffney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mark Knecht wrote: > > Thanks to all. It started at 1 of 156. By my calulation that looks correct: > > > > 103 of 260 passed > > 104 failed > > 1 of 156 to do > > > > 103+156=259 > > > > Looks great! Thanks! > > > > Now, how will I figure out why portage wanted to build alsa-driver for > > -e gnome? Does that require reading the gnome ebuild? (A capability > > I'm not sure I have...) > > It was probably something along the lines of: gnome (or one of its direct > dependencies) depends on esound, which uses the alsa USE flag, which drags in > alsa-lib, which ... > Ah, OK, that makes sense and it's something a user-type like me could look at. Thanks for the hint. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] 4 hours of emerge -e down the drain?
Thanks to all. It started at 1 of 156. By my calulation that looks correct: 103 of 260 passed 104 failed 1 of 156 to do 103+156=259 Looks great! Thanks! Now, how will I figure out why portage wanted to build alsa-driver for -e gnome? Does that require reading the gnome ebuild? (A capability I'm not sure I have...) Thanks, Mark On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:16:48 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Feb 17, 2005 at 11:11:28AM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: > > Hi, > >After looking into a problem with Evolution it appears that a few > > people solved the problem doing an 'emerge -e gnome' so I decided to > > give that a try. It ran for 4 hours and got to item 104 out of 260 and > > then failed because for some reason portage wasn't smart about the > > alsa-driver and 2.6 kernels: > > > > >>> emerge (104 of 260) media-sound/alsa-driver-1.0.8 to / > > >>> md5 src_uri ;-) alsa-driver-1.0.8.tar.bz2 > > * Determining the location of the kernel source code > > * Found kernel source directory: > > * /usr/src/linux > > * Found sources for kernel version: > > * 2.6.9-gentoo-r4 > > * Checking for suitable kernel configuration options > > * ALSA is already compiled into the kernel. > > * Please check to make sure these options are set correctly. > > * Once you have satisfied these options, please try merging > > * this package again. > > > > !!! ERROR: media-sound/alsa-driver-1.0.8 failed. > > !!! Function check_extra_config, Line 439, Exitcode 0 > > !!! Incorrect kernel configuration options > > !!! If you need support, post the topmost build error, NOT this status > > message. > > > > Why does portage do this? > > > > Anyway, if I have to restart this is there a way to pick up from here? > > How can I start emerge -e gnome with item #105 (whatever that might > > be) and not lose 4 hours of work? > > > > Thanks, > > Mark > > > > -- > > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > > Mark, > > Not at all. Resume the emerge, and skip the first broken package. This > can be done as follows: emerge --resume --skipfirst > > Then when it's done, go back and figure out why that package broke. > > Ciao, > > Aaron Kulbe > a.k.a. superlag on FreeNode > -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] 4 hours of emerge -e down the drain?
Hi, After looking into a problem with Evolution it appears that a few people solved the problem doing an 'emerge -e gnome' so I decided to give that a try. It ran for 4 hours and got to item 104 out of 260 and then failed because for some reason portage wasn't smart about the alsa-driver and 2.6 kernels: >>> emerge (104 of 260) media-sound/alsa-driver-1.0.8 to / >>> md5 src_uri ;-) alsa-driver-1.0.8.tar.bz2 * Determining the location of the kernel source code * Found kernel source directory: * /usr/src/linux * Found sources for kernel version: * 2.6.9-gentoo-r4 * Checking for suitable kernel configuration options * ALSA is already compiled into the kernel. * Please check to make sure these options are set correctly. * Once you have satisfied these options, please try merging * this package again. !!! ERROR: media-sound/alsa-driver-1.0.8 failed. !!! Function check_extra_config, Line 439, Exitcode 0 !!! Incorrect kernel configuration options !!! If you need support, post the topmost build error, NOT this status message. Why does portage do this? Anyway, if I have to restart this is there a way to pick up from here? How can I start emerge -e gnome with item #105 (whatever that might be) and not lose 4 hours of work? Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Giving a user his own partition
Hi, I'm having trouble on a Gentoo machine that's run fine for the last 15 months but is now having trouble with Evolution. I suspect that it's possibly caused by my lack of knowledge about mounting partitions and possibly coupled with recent updates. I hope you can set me straight. The machine is owned by essentially a single user, my dad, and then I have an account so that I can log on and administer the machine. When I originally set the machine up I did not put /home on a separate partition from / and late we ran out of space. The drive had more space so I created a new partition just for my dad's account, copied his data there and then tried mounting that partition under /home/herb but what I found was that he couldn't write to the drive. I didn't understand the permissions issues well enough so what I did was a bit strange. I made a directory on the partition called 'herb' and gave him ownership of that. I mounted that partition under /mnt/extrahome and under /home I created a link /home/herb->/mnt/extrahome/herb gandalf root # ls -al /mnt/extrahome/ total 28 drwxrwxrwx 4 root root 4096 Jun 3 2004 . drwxr-xr-x 8 root root 4096 Jun 3 2004 .. drwx-- 67 herb users 4096 Feb 16 17:23 herb drwx-- 2 root root 16384 Jun 3 2004 lost+found gandalf root # gandalf home # ls -la total 12 drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Feb 16 17:53 . drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 Nov 22 20:43 .. -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Nov 15 18:09 .keep lrwxr-xr-x 1 root root19 Feb 16 17:53 herb -> /mnt/extrahome/herb drwx-- 44 mark users 4096 Feb 16 17:28 mark gandalf home # and as 'herb': [EMAIL PROTECTED] herb $ pwd /home/herb [EMAIL PROTECTED] herb $ df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/sda3 4892408 3890844753044 84% / /dev/sda6 9612604 3691232 5433076 41% /mnt/portage none257792 0257792 0% /dev/shm /dev/sda8 9612604 1247096 7877212 14% /mnt/extrahome [EMAIL PROTECTED] herb $ This has worked fun until this week but now Evolution is complaining. There are some strange messages like: [EMAIL PROTECTED] herb $ evolution (evolution:7909): camel-WARNING **: Invalid root: '/home/herb/.evolution/mail/local/Inbox.ibex.index' (evolution:7909): camel-WARNING **: version: TEXT.000 (TEXT.000) (evolution:7909): camel-WARNING **: block size: 1024 (1024) OK (evolution:7909): camel-WARNING **: free: 0 (0 add size < 1024) OK (evolution:7909): camel-WARNING **: last: 6144 (6144 and size: 1024) BAD (evolution:7909): camel-WARNING **: flags: unSYNC When I run Evolution on this machine in my account (mark) Evolution runs fine but I run on the normal root partition under /home without the link that he has. Is this what's causing the problem? My problem right now is that I'd like to mount /dev/sda8/herb under /home/herb but I don't know how to mount the directory there. I also don't know how to mount the top of the drive under /home/herb and give him write access. There's a lost+found directory he'd see that I'd prefer he didn't, etc. What do I do to fix this up and give him the disk space he needs and make the system work? What do those camel messages above mean? Thanks in advance, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Running something complicated from Gnome's browser
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:26:43 +, rodrigo ahumada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > El dom, 13-02-2005 a las 15:36 -0800, Mark Knecht escribió: > > > > > The '0' & '1' are the real channel numbers that LinuxSampler has > > assigned to my set of commands. I do not know how to capture this > > response back into my script. > > what if you try: > OUTPUT=`echo "ADD CHANNEL" | nc localhost ` > > or > > OUTPUT=$(echo "ADD CHANNEL" | nc localhost ) Thanks for the ideas. They didn't seem to work. I'll keep looking around. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Running something complicated from Gnome's browser
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:48:02 -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sunday 13 February 2005 03:31 pm, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > 3) Ask me which on I want to use > > > > Easy to make it ask the question but so far I cannot find the bash > > command to wait for keyboard input. There must be one but I don't see > > it in man bash. > > The bash command read will read one line on text into a variable you use it > like: > read foo; > echo $foo; Hi again, Thanks to everyone who's helped with my little project today. I now have a working version of a script that is started by double clicking on an icon in Gnome and answering some questions. Cool for me. Thanks. For reference, and because I have one little problem here's the script: #!/bin/bash gigdump "$1" | grep Instrument | grep MIDI echo echo Please pick an instrument read INSTRUMENT echo INSTRUMENT = $INSTRUMENT echo "ADD CHANNEL" | nc localhost echo "LOAD ENGINE gig 0" | nc localhost echo "SET CHANNEL AUDIO_OUTPUT_DEVICE 0 0" | nc localhost echo "LOAD INSTRUMENT ""\""$1"\"" $(($INSTRUMENT-1)) "0" | nc localhost echo "SET CHANNEL VOLUME 0 0.40" | nc localhost echo From 1-16 please pick a MIDI channel for this instrument read MIDI echo "SET CHANNEL MIDI_INPUT 0 0 0 "$(($MIDI-1)) | nc localhost echo Hook to which alsa_pcm:playback pair? read JACK echo "SET AUDIO_OUTPUT_CHANNEL_PARAMETER 0 0 JACK_BINDINGS='alsa_pcm:playback_"$JACK"'" | nc localhost echo "SET AUDIO_OUTPUT_CHANNEL_PARAMETER 0 1 JACK_BINDINGS='alsa_pcm:playback_"$(($JACK+1))"'" | nc localhost echo "GET CHANNEL INFO 0" | nc localhost echo Hit enter to finish read WAIT Within reasonable usage this works just fine. I could add some error checking, etc. but it's fine for now. There is only one more thing I need to make it really useful. When the output of 'echo "ADD CHANNEL" | nc localhost ' is executed LinuxSampler returns a channel number. Here's a pass at using the script: Instrument 1) "Grand Piano 1", MIDIBank=0, MIDIProgram=0 Please pick an instrument 1 INSTRUMENT = 1 OK[0] OK OK OK OK >From 1-16 please pick a MIDI channel for this instrument 1 OK Hook to which alsa_pcm:playback pair? 12 OK OK ENGINE_NAME: GigEngine VOLUME: 0.400 AUDIO_OUTPUT_DEVICE: 0 AUDIO_OUTPUT_CHANNELS: 2 AUDIO_OUTPUT_ROUTING: 0,1 MIDI_INPUT_DEVICE: 0 MIDI_INPUT_PORT: 0 MIDI_INPUT_CHANNEL: 0 INSTRUMENT_FILE: /home/mark/Gigs/GSt25/Pianos/East West/grandpiano1.sf2.gig INSTRUMENT_NR: 0 INSTRUMENT_NAME: Grand Piano 1 INSTRUMENT_STATUS: 100 . Hit enter to finish Note that near the start there is a response OK[0] Note that if I load a second gig file then LinuxSampler returns a new channel number: Instrument 1) "Dyno Rhodes", MIDIBank=0, MIDIProgram=0 Please pick an instrument 1 INSTRUMENT = 1 OK[1] OK OK OK OK >From 1-16 please pick a MIDI channel for this instrument The '0' & '1' are the real channel numbers that LinuxSampler has assigned to my set of commands. I do not know how to capture this response back into my script. Does anyone know how I grab this response? Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Running something complicated from Gnome's browser
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 14:44:02 -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sunday 13 February 2005 12:22 pm, Mark Knecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Hi, > >This is not a Gentoo thing at all but I don't know where else to > > ask so I'm coming here. Delete if you're not interested. > > > >I have a suspicion this is some big scripting job. Scripting to any > > great extent is something I know nothing about. I'm hoping that maybe > > someone can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance. > > > >Within Gnome is there a way that I could double click on a file in > > their browser and then cause the system to start executing a program > > that asks me questions about what to do? I have some files that are > > used in a specialized audio program. Each individual file contain > > multiple instruments. I'd like the script to: > > You'll have to check some gnome-dev documentation, but generally file > system browsers execute external program by running a simple command line. > There may be variable in the command-line. Perhaps %f for the name of the > file of somesuch. > > > 1) Check the file for available instruments. I know how to do this > > (sort of) at the command line using something like "gigdump > > filename.gig | grep Instrument". That almost works well enough for > > this task but it does produce one extra line I'll need to get rid of. > > If you can get it to execute a bash script, the command-line aruments are > avilable through $ variables. $0 is how the script was invoked on > the command line; $1 is the first command-line argument, etc. Right. Thanks. I'm now passing the filename to the scipt correctly. > > > 2) Pop up a window and tell me about the instrument list > > While bash has no support for this, you may be able to use GTK binding for > some scipting language Perl/Python to do this. Your first stop for this > step is the GTK documentation/tutorial. Gnome allows me to run my bash script in a terminal so now the terminal pops up, runs gigdump, greps out the right lines and saves them to a temp file. I then cat that file to the same terminal and see the results. Good so far. > > > 3) Ask me which on I want to use Easy to make it ask the question but so far I cannot find the bash command to wait for keyboard input. There must be one but I don't see it in man bash. > > > > 4) Ask me a couple more questions that I answer > > Reapeat steps 2-3; If you want to show a GUI and you are already running > gnome, you'll want to learn/use GTK. Not into GUI programming today. Just want to see if I can get it to work. If it does then and it's useful then maybe I'll make a GUI next Sunday afternoon. > > > 5) Take the set of answers and send it over the network using some > > command like > > > > echo "command 1" | nc localhost > > echo "command 2" | nc localhost > > Most languages will allow you to execute commands like this with some call. > This is all bash does; perl has backticks and a few system calls; python > and C also have system calls. You may not even need to have the shell do > the piping, as you generally get/provide some handle to/for the > stdin/out/err of a subprocess. Oops - that was beyond my skill level... > > >I know nothing of doing stuff like this but it would be very > > helpful. The windows program that uses these files of course has a > > fancy file browser that allows you to do this with a couple of click & > > drag operations. The Linux program has nothing so I'm doing this by > > hand and it's very tedious. > > Well, do get this done you are going to have to learn a bit. Since you > need some degree of GUI interaction, you'll probably want to go with perl > or python for the actual script. If you have pervious experience with > shell scripting or perl, go that way. If not, go the python way, then > you'll know the language portage is written in and can do some serious > gentoo hacking. ;) I'm actually pretty happy if I can pick an instrument out of the list that the gigdump command gives me and then just tell nc to load it in LinuxSampler. Jsut happening in an xterm is fine for me. Thanks, MArk -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Running something complicated from Gnome's browser
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 16:02:32 +, rodrigo ahumada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > i made my own auto-decompresser with python-gtk (i dont use > file-roller), it uses "file" to get file type and select with command to > use and showme the output. > > in module "commands" you get "commands.getoutput", with this you can get > stdout of a program to analize. > > also you can use zenity to make dialogs and catch their output codes, > its a program that makes dialogs. > > i don't know gigdump but matbe it have some parameter to give short > output, also you can use "string.replace". > Is that script something you could share off list? I've gotten as far as double clicking on the file's icon and getting it to run a bash file but I'm not getting the filename into the bash file so the results are useless so far. Thanks, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] OT: Running something complicated from Gnome's browser
Hi, This is not a Gentoo thing at all but I don't know where else to ask so I'm coming here. Delete if you're not interested. I have a suspicion this is some big scripting job. Scripting to any great extent is something I know nothing about. I'm hoping that maybe someone can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance. Within Gnome is there a way that I could double click on a file in their browser and then cause the system to start executing a program that asks me questions about what to do? I have some files that are used in a specialized audio program. Each individual file contain multiple instruments. I'd like the script to: 1) Check the file for available instruments. I know how to do this (sort of) at the command line using something like "gigdump filename.gig | grep Instrument". That almost works well enough for this task but it does produce one extra line I'll need to get rid of. 2) Pop up a window and tell me about the instrument list 3) Ask me which on I want to use 4) Ask me a couple more questions that I answer 5) Take the set of answers and send it over the network using some command like echo "command 1" | nc localhost echo "command 2" | nc localhost I know nothing of doing stuff like this but it would be very helpful. The windows program that uses these files of course has a fancy file browser that allows you to do this with a couple of click & drag operations. The Linux program has nothing so I'm doing this by hand and it's very tedious. Thanks for taking the time to read and possibly respond. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] intermitent hang at shutdown
Do you have any NFS or Samba mounts? Try adding "_netdev " to the mount options if you do. - Mark On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 22:38:29 +, rodrigo ahumada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > El vie, 11-02-2005 a las 22:14 -0800, Steven Susbauer escribió: > hi: > > Try adding "[*] Use real mode APM BIOS call to power off", i've had > > instances where this being disabled would not turn off the machine... > done, and nothing. > i'm thinking that it must be some service that's keeping running... > or something with pam or ssh... ? > > -- > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list > > -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] gmail question
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:24:41 +0100, Holly Bostick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Thanks for the explanation, Mark... I do have a GMail account, but I > don't use it for this (or any) list atm, and what I do use it for is > very limited, so I don't know all that much about how to set it up or > how it handles lots of mail. > > What, does it automatically archive the message (because it is exactly > the same as a message GMail knows you have) or does it do something else > entirely? It's not clear to me. AFAICT it is identical except for the header. GMail must look at the text as well as see that it's from me and then it just trashes it. It seems a bit strange but it works. I don't know what it would do if, for instance, the text in the email was somehow changed between when I sent it and when I received it, but that's not happened. > Does the mail become visible if you go to All Mail rather than > Starred mail (like I said, I don't use GMail that extensively, so I'm > just asking. I went by my account because of this thread and looked at > "Settings", and archived some mail-- I've had this account for a while > now, and this is the first time I've done these things, so that says > just how much I've explored the GMail functionality)? I've not seen it become visible unless I erase the sent copy. In that case the reply always becomes visible. (AFAICT) > > I looked, but I didn't easily find a way to stop it doing what you > explain. Is there one? > Nope. It's just the way GMail works. It's a bit strange at first but after awhile I became used to it. The one problem with the way this works is that if your message never gets to the list and you never get a response you don't really know why. You have the outgoing copy. You think it was delivered. It wasn't. You cannot tell. One other strange aspect about Gmail is that most of the time, if I start a conversation, I do not see my email in my Inbox until I get a response from someone. The first message stays in the sent folder, and I can read it, but it doesn't show up in the Inbox until someone responds. I really don't like that the spelling checker doesn't learn my vocabulary. My name, and yours, is always in red. I like GMail but it comes with its own way of working. - Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
