Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
I'd love the contact information, too, please? Thank you, Elena/Gia -- Original message -- > Sounds like it was well worth the trip. Thank you for sharing. If I > may ask... would you also share the pleat work contact information... > I don't want to swamp the poor lady ; > but I would love to see what > she has found. > > Many thanks, > Mari / Bridgette > > > > > And finally, the pleatwork class was really great. She should write a book. > Someone on this list was asking about pleated smocks a few months ago -- > something about the way the sleeves were placed so there wasn't a shoulder > seam > but the torso part was pleated into the neck. Whoever that was, e-mail me, > and > I'll give you the contact info for the teacher of this class, because she had > documentation of what you were talking about. > > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] RE: KWCS report?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Marc, I should warn you that in her German class, Kass said, "Marc's going to make me a pair of shoes. He might not know it yet, but he's going to." :) Not if she doesn't get in touch with me He's not :) Marc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
>Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:37:50 -0500 >From: "Marc Carlson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [h-cost] RE: KWCS report? >I have now gotten to meet Kass face to face, which was nice since we've >intermittantly corresponded for years (we'd been at MTA one year at the same >time, but didn't know who the other was). Marc, I should warn you that in her German class, Kass said, "Marc's going to make me a pair of shoes. He might not know it yet, but he's going to." :) Tea Rose P.S. I'll get the pleatwork info up this weekend; I don't have it with me here at work. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
At 08:28 AM 10/13/2005, you wrote: www.bellomarisco.com/smocking.php This is the website of the gal who taught the class on pleatwork. I don't know if folks here are already familiar with it or not, but it was new to me. I don't see her shirt diagrams on the site, just the pleatwork and stitching. The handouts from the class had assembly diagrams. Dawn Thank you Dawn for sharing that site. Her shirt info on http://www.bellomarisco.com/shirt.php was enlightening. I have also written to the teacher requesting more info. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Pleated smocks/shifts etc Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
At 06:22 AM 10/13/2005, you wrote: Hi, In Modelejon, about male fashion in Sweden there is a picture of the shirt.It was worn by Nils Sture 24. of may 1567. Further reading in swedish is Nylén A-M,. Stureskjortorna i Livrustka,,aren, vol. IV, hæft 8-9, Stockholm 1948. The shirt has a wide neckband collar. The body is gathered to the shirt all way round and has another ruffle gathered at the top of the shirt. Neckband and Ruffles wich also sits on the sleaves are embroidered with black silk, The linnen is 80 cm, wide and all the width has ben used for the front and back piece. No smocking, sorry!!! Bjarne Bjarne, Thank you very much for that info. It really helps my current understanding of the photos I saw, and that it was not smocked. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Pleated smocks/shifts etc Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
At 03:31 AM 10/13/2005, you wrote: Uppsala is in Sweden. "Stureskjortorna" is Swedish for "The Sture shirts". Thank you Kate for that clarification. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
smocking Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
> www.bellomarisco.com/smocking.php > > This is the website of the gal who taught the class on pleatwork. I > don't know if folks here are already familiar with it or not, but it was > new to me. I don't see her shirt diagrams on the site, just the > pleatwork and stitching. The handouts from the class had assembly diagrams. lol! I was about to go hunt down her site as I recalled her smocking recreations. A most informative site to be sure. I found it while hunting down portraits by Ludger tom Ring d.J. as I'm trying to make a dress in the style of one of his sitters. michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.0/132 - Release Date: 13/10/2005 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?/Smocking site
At 16:28 13/10/2005, you wrote: Kimiko Small wrote: At 08:33 AM 10/12/2005, you wrote: because she had documentation of what you were talking about. Oh yes please share that info on the list as well. I've been having a doozy of a time trying to figure out how Henry VIII's smocks are done without resorting to raglan style sleeves. Any info that can hopefully shed light would be wonderful. www.bellomarisco.com/smocking.php This is the website of the gal who taught the class on pleatwork. I don't know if folks here are already familiar with it or not, but it was new to me. I don't see her shirt diagrams on the site, just the pleatwork and stitching. The handouts from the class had assembly diagrams. Great site - thanks for the link. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
Kimiko Small wrote: At 08:33 AM 10/12/2005, you wrote: because she had documentation of what you were talking about. Oh yes please share that info on the list as well. I've been having a doozy of a time trying to figure out how Henry VIII's smocks are done without resorting to raglan style sleeves. Any info that can hopefully shed light would be wonderful. www.bellomarisco.com/smocking.php This is the website of the gal who taught the class on pleatwork. I don't know if folks here are already familiar with it or not, but it was new to me. I don't see her shirt diagrams on the site, just the pleatwork and stitching. The handouts from the class had assembly diagrams. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Pleated smocks/shifts etc Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
Hi, In Modelejon, about male fashion in Sweden there is a picture of the shirt.It was worn by Nils Sture 24. of may 1567. Further reading in swedish is Nylén A-M,. Stureskjortorna i Livrustka,,aren, vol. IV, hæft 8-9, Stockholm 1948. The shirt has a wide neckband collar. The body is gathered to the shirt all way round and has another ruffle gathered at the top of the shirt. Neckband and Ruffles wich also sits on the sleaves are embroidered with black silk, The linnen is 80 cm, wide and all the width has ben used for the front and back piece. No smocking, sorry!!! Bjarne - Original Message - From: "Kate M Bunting" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 12:31 PM Subject: Re: Pleated smocks/shifts etc Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13/10/2005 08:41 >>> With your hint of the Sture shirt (I knew of the suits, but not the shirt), I did some google searching and found a possible pattern and detail photos of the Sture shirt, and info on the woman's reproduction shirt. However, I am not sure what I am looking at with the detailed images, as there doesn't appear to be an overall image of the original shirt to put it all into context. http://swein.campus.luth.se/lia/garb/browndoublet/shirt.html But it gave me a name of a journal to hunt down, "Journal of the Royal Armoury" Vol IV: 8-9 (häfte 8-9) The article is titled "Stureskjortorna" and it was written by Anna-Maja Nylén. Do you or anyone else have this, seen this, and/or know what language it may be written in? Uppsala is in Sweden. "Stureskjortorna" is Swedish for "The Sture shirts". ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Pleated smocks/shifts etc Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13/10/2005 08:41 >>> >With your hint of the Sture shirt (I knew of the suits, but not the shirt), >I did some google searching and found a possible pattern and detail photos >of the Sture shirt, and info on the woman's reproduction shirt. However, I >am not sure what I am looking at with the detailed images, as there doesn't >appear to be an overall image of the original shirt to put it all into context. >http://swein.campus.luth.se/lia/garb/browndoublet/shirt.html >But it gave me a name of a journal to hunt down, "Journal of the Royal >Armoury" Vol IV: 8-9 (häfte 8-9) The article is titled "Stureskjortorna" >and it was written by Anna-Maja Nylén. Do you or anyone else have this, >seen this, and/or know what language it may be written in? Uppsala is in Sweden. "Stureskjortorna" is Swedish for "The Sture shirts". ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Pleated smocks/shifts etc Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
At 10:10 PM 10/12/2005, you wrote: If you mean high necked shirts.. there are several extant that use a basic rectangle cut with a slit for the neck, gussets at the shoulders for shape and the body gathered/pleated to the neckline. I suspect there is a fair amount of artistic licence in some portraits... The Sture shirt though does look very fully gathered/pleated though. Hello Michaela, I have seen the Mary of Hapsburg images from Cynthia Virtue's site, but didn't know of your images and info. Thank you for sharing those with me. I was speaking of the high necked shirts. One is this image of Henry, where you can see the decorative(?) black lines along one shoulder (his right), and it appears smocked into the neck collar, or it may be the texture of the painting. http://college-de-vevey.vd.ch/auteur/livres/connaissance/tomeX/Holbein_henry8.jpg I have a rather clear copy in one of my books, but not having seen this painting in person, am not sure if smocking lines, or brush strokes. This image from Joos van Cleve also is high necked and appears smocked. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Henry2.jpg I only wish I had a better image to look at. My book shows it in B&W, and not very well. And a third earlier image of Henry VIII, from an unknown artist in 1521. The only image I have is from Norris, Plate X B, which is a B&W image of the original painting. The neck is lower, rounded, and attached to a decorative strip of something, but definitely fully smocked from one side to the other side of the wide front opening of the doublet & robe? With your hint of the Sture shirt (I knew of the suits, but not the shirt), I did some google searching and found a possible pattern and detail photos of the Sture shirt, and info on the woman's reproduction shirt. However, I am not sure what I am looking at with the detailed images, as there doesn't appear to be an overall image of the original shirt to put it all into context. http://swein.campus.luth.se/lia/garb/browndoublet/shirt.html But it gave me a name of a journal to hunt down, "Journal of the Royal Armoury" Vol IV: 8-9 (häfte 8-9) The article is titled "Stureskjortorna" and it was written by Anna-Maja Nylén. Do you or anyone else have this, seen this, and/or know what language it may be written in? I am presuming not English. Since you mentioned the shirt, do you have more info on the Sture shirt as well? And I found this image of a boy's shirt, c1550. http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/elizabethan/boyshirt1540s2.jpg http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/elizabethan/boyshirt1540s.jpg Which came from here: http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/renaissance.html Which reminded me to look at Albrecht Durer's works, which provide tantalizing glimpses of the shirts near the neck, but even with the book I have and large images, not enough detail to determine what's going on. But this is more than I had before, so thank you for your comments and hints that continue my path to finding out more on Henry's shirts. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Pleated smocks/shifts etc Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
> Oh yes please share that info on the list as well. I've been having a doozy > of a time trying to figure out how Henry VIII's smocks are done without > resorting to raglan style sleeves. Any info that can hopefully shed light > would be wonderful. http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/mary/index.htm The Mary of Hungary chemise has the arm gussets go right to the neckline, you can see the front panels and sleeves are smocked and the gussets left unsmocked. The back is also smocked I believe. I'm sure I've linked from there to Cynthia Virtue's site which hosts the pattern diagram of her chemise and gown. I made a version of it using the same measurements (Mary and I appear to have been very similar in height and width...) You can't even tell that the gussets are there with pleated neckline. I made a backing that was about an inch deep to secure my pleats to. When it was just a row of fine pleats they were even less visible. If you mean high necked shirts.. there are several extant that use a basic rectangle cut with a slit for the neck, gussets at the shoulders for shape and the body gathered/pleated to the neckline. I suspect there is a fair amount of artistic licence in some portraits... The Sture shirt though does look very fully gathered/pleated though. michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
At 08:33 AM 10/12/2005, you wrote: And finally, the pleatwork class was really great. She should write a book. Someone on this list was asking about pleated smocks a few months ago -- something about the way the sleeves were placed so there wasn't a shoulder seam but the torso part was pleated into the neck. Whoever that was, e-mail me, and I'll give you the contact info for the teacher of this class, because she had documentation of what you were talking about. Tea Rose Oh yes please share that info on the list as well. I've been having a doozy of a time trying to figure out how Henry VIII's smocks are done without resorting to raglan style sleeves. Any info that can hopefully shed light would be wonderful. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] RE: KWCS report?
Well, I went and had a lot of fun. I have some pictures online at my blog at http://www.livejournal.com/users/marccarlson/ (under 11 October) -- I'll put some more up when I get the other rolls developed Friday. (And yes, I have a blog, I had to get the account - long story, and as long as I have it I might as well use it). I have now gotten to meet Kass face to face, which was nice since we've intermittantly corresponded for years (we'd been at MTA one year at the same time, but didn't know who the other was). There were some good classes, most of which I didn't take :) I was out taking pictures. My wife's been really excited by the tablet woven edging and has been whipping through things right and left. Well worth the trip. Marc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
Sounds like it was well worth the trip. Thank you for sharing. If I may ask... would you also share the pleat work contact information... I don't want to swamp the poor lady ; > but I would love to see what she has found. Many thanks, Mari / Bridgette > > And finally, the pleatwork class was really great. She should write a book. > Someone on this list was asking about pleated smocks a few months ago -- > something about the way the sleeves were placed so there wasn't a shoulder > seam but the torso part was pleated into the neck. Whoever that was, e-mail > me, and I'll give you the contact info for the teacher of this class, because > she had documentation of what you were talking about. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: KWCS report?
So, can someone who went to KWCS in Kansas this weekend tell us how it went? --Robin = I went with Dawn, and I had a blast. I got to do Marc Carlson's shoe demo, which was awesome. Not that I'll ever attempt to make a medieval shoe, mind you, but his class was great and the shoes he had as examples were beautiful. And now I know what grave wax is. :) I took Kass McGann's German class, which was very entertaining and informative. I'm a complete newbie to German clothes, so some of it was a little over my head, but it was worthwhile anyway. And I absolutely couldn't believe it when Dawn told me Kass had done all the cutwork on her costume by hand. Totally droolworthy. Later that afternoon I was in the other German class. I can't remember the instructor's name but she said she used to be a member of this list. She disagreed with some of Kass's conclusions, but she had several really cool books to look at and reconstructions of her version of the famous Cranach dress. And finally, the pleatwork class was really great. She should write a book. Someone on this list was asking about pleated smocks a few months ago -- something about the way the sleeves were placed so there wasn't a shoulder seam but the torso part was pleated into the neck. Whoever that was, e-mail me, and I'll give you the contact info for the teacher of this class, because she had documentation of what you were talking about. Tea Rose ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
