RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Having drugs gives agents and the government to subsidize prisons, seize property (Ferrari's, Large Mansions) etc. I don't think we should make them legal any time soon. Any one wants to buy a Ferrari Testarosa for $5,000? 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Eli Allen Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:24 AM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices A few minor changes I'd make. First, I'm assuming the drugs are actually very cheap to make. So I say tax them very highly and they should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black market, These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the regulation and treatment efforts. Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use them. This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the drugs. I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't use the drugs. Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a recreational drug. A chemical is a chemical and they all have side effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad. Eli - Original Message - > http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization > arguement. Sounds pretty good to me... > > On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals. >> >> >From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005 >> >To: The Hardware List >> >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices >> >> >What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle >> >park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of >> >drugs solved any social ills? >> > >> >-Gary >> > >> > >> > >> >Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: >> > >> >> BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on >> >> the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love >> >> British Columbia! >> >> >> >> What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't >> >> work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of >> >> "criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what >> >> happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's >> >> business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public >> >> education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! >> >> Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where >> >> our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! >> >> >> >> warpmedia wrote: >> >> >> >>> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these >> >>> days! LOL >> >>> >> >>> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little >> >>> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there >> >>> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that >> >>> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. >> >>> >> >>> FORC5 wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> "Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane >> >>>> to dynamite." >> >>>> Popular Mechanics, 1938 >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the >> >>>>> buds to Canada. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> gibney wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > -jmg > > Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. > Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918] > >
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
A few minor changes I'd make. First, I'm assuming the drugs are actually very cheap to make. So I say tax them very highly and they should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black market, These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the regulation and treatment efforts. Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use them. This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the drugs. I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't use the drugs. Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a recreational drug. A chemical is a chemical and they all have side effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad. Eli - Original Message - http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization arguement. Sounds pretty good to me... On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals. >From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices >What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle >park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of >drugs solved any social ills? > >-Gary > > > >Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: > >> BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on >> the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love >> British Columbia! >> >> What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't >> work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of >> "criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what >> happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's >> business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public >> education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! >> Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where >> our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! >> >> warpmedia wrote: >> >>> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these >>> days! LOL >>> >>> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little >>> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there >>> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that >>> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. >>> >>> FORC5 wrote: >>> "Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite." Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: > Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the > buds to Canada. > > gibney wrote: > > >> Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. >> >>> >>> >>> >> -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization arguement. Sounds pretty good to me... On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals. > > >From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005 > >To: The Hardware List > >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices > > >What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle > >park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of > >drugs solved any social ills? > > > >-Gary > > > > > > > >Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: > > > >> BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on > >> the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love > >> British Columbia! > >> > >> What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't > >> work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of > >> "criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what > >> happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's > >> business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public > >> education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! > >> Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where > >> our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! > >> > >> warpmedia wrote: > >> > >>> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these > >>> days! LOL > >>> > >>> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little > >>> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there > >>> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that > >>> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. > >>> > >>> FORC5 wrote: > >>> > "Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane > to dynamite." > Popular Mechanics, 1938 > > > At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: > > > Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the > > buds to Canada. > > > > gibney wrote: > > > > > >> Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals. >From: Gary Udstrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices >What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle >park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of >drugs solved any social ills? > >-Gary > > > >Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: > >> BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on >> the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love >> British Columbia! >> >> What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned "Prohibition" doesn't >> work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of >> "criminalization"! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what >> happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's >> business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public >> education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! >> Addictive behavior is associated with "self-esteem" and that's where >> our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! >> >> warpmedia wrote: >> >>> Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these >>> days! LOL >>> >>> Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little >>> Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there >>> was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that >>> seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. >>> >>> FORC5 wrote: >>> "Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite." Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: > Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the > buds to Canada. > > gibney wrote: > > >> Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. >> >>> >>> >>> >>
RE: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. Dave Gibney Pullman, WA And it wasn't the Governor :) > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Ruset > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:57 PM > To: The Hardware List > Subject: Re: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > > I am all about Ethanol. Unfortunately in the US the corn farmers are > pushing for it. Making Ethanol from Corn is the most inefficient way of > doing it, and supposedly yeilds less energy than what was spent in > producing it. > > Making Ethanol from sugar cane, as Brazil has done, makes MORE energy than > what was spent in producing it, and has limited Brazil's dependance on > foreign oil. > > > >From: "jeff.lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Date: Wed Aug 17 15:43:42 CDT 2005 > >To: The Hardware List > >Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > > >Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! > The > >oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind > >inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down > in > >the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the > >inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be > at > >50% or more by now! > > > >We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? > We > >all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not > >too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in > >disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to > >anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. > > > >BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in > our > >state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per > carton > >increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only > estate > >taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! > > > >Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income > will > >go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in > >class > > > >Jeff > > > >From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > > > > > >>A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked > >>the water into hydrogen within the car itself. > >> > >> Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( > >> > >>>From: 007 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 > >>>To: The Hardware List > >>>Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > >> > >>>The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. > >>> > >>>007. > >>> > >>>-Original Message- > >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher > Fisk > >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM > >>>To: The Hardware List > >>>Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices > >>> > >>> > >>>On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: > >>> > >>>> It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record > profits. > >>>> So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and > how > >>>> much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. > >>> > >>>I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% > profit > >>>on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go > up > >>>5% because then thier profit goes up too. > >>> > >>>Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make > 6 > >>>cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get > my > >>>point =) > >>> > >>> > >>>Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel > instead > >>>of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel > price! > >>> > >>> > >>>Christopher Fisk > >>>-- > >>>I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS > >>>I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS > >>> Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
until the hole is drilled nobody can predict anything, only guess. What's Canada getting out of there. besides there is still the Gulf once we can deep drill, larger reserves than middle east. At 06:17 AM 8/18/2005, Eli Allen Poked the stick with: Going by: http://www.doi.gov/news/030312.htm ANWR can only produce 1,400,000 barrels a day, otherwise known as way less then our middle east imports. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- The good old days: Beer foamed and dishwater didn't.
Re: RE: [H] Gas prices
It's been pretty good for Exxon, Getty, Shell, etc. >From: Analyst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Thu Aug 18 13:29:59 CDT 2005 >To: 'The Hardware List' >Subject: RE: [H] Gas prices >On 19 Aug 2005 at 0:12, Tony Antoniou wrote: > >> Bush made the BS oil inflation happen with his "War on Terror". Sorry >> to all you militant Bush supporters out there but Bush and his family >> of oil-riggers are laughing all the way to the bank, along with the >> people above them pulling the strings. > >In October of 1996, Dick Cheney, who was then a member of Congress from >Wyoming, said: > >?Let us rid ourselves of the fiction that low oil prices are somehow good for >the United States? > > >Vince
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
Additionally, the less load on their system, the more customers they can service with their existing infrastructure. >From: Analyst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Thu Aug 18 13:14:24 CDT 2005 >To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices >On 18 Aug 2005 at 13:06, Hayes Elkins wrote: > >> Why would a power company who's end goal is to make money want to >> cripple their revenue stream by making homes super efficient? I see >> short term cost savings in this example but I fear there is really no >> incentive for power companies to encourage energy savings. > >Because some power companies are 'Green'. In many parts of the country you can >purchase power from wind, hydro, and other alternative sources. > > >Vince
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
On 18 Aug 2005 at 8:20, Greg Sevart wrote: > In the case of oil, prices have recently been driven NOT by supply and > demand, but by the fears of supply and demand. Easily 50% of the cost > of oil today is a premium built not on actual supply or demand, but > mere speculation and the fear of supply disruptions. Currently, there > is plenty of supply to meet demand, but the margin is slim. > > Economics 101 doesn't (directly) apply here. Agreed. Same with gasoline prices. The last time that gasoline prices spiked like this was in the Summer of 2000. The price only spiked to around $2.00/gallon, but from a much lower base price. We heard the EXACT same tired old excuses back then that were hearing now. That demand was high, that there was a shortage, that there wasnt enough refining capacity, that refineries had closed down for maintenance/weather/fire, that the EPA requirements of 40 different blends was the problem. In the subsequent quarter, the oil companies and refining companies reported MASSIVE profits. Exxon Mobil's operating income was up 89%, BP Amoco's operating income rose nearly 93% and Texaco's operating income increased by 127%. Refiners also cleaned up: Diamond Shamrock saw earnings increase 310% and Sunoco saw earnings increase by 743%. This sparked an investigation by the Federal Trade Commission, which concluded that the spike in gasoline prices was caused by refiners, WHO HAD ILLEGALLY WITHHELD GASOLINE FROM THE MARKET TO MAXIMIZE PROFITS. All the other excuses had been fraudulently manufactured and propagandized. Too bad there are no regulatory cops on the beat with this administration. Vince
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
That's interesting...because they're already doing it in parts of Alaska not in the ANWR, using eco-friendly "slimhole" techniques, at a cost of FAR less than $80/barrel. I call BS (on whomever originally claimed it would cost that much). Greg - Original Message - From: "Analyst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Hardware List" Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 1:14 PM Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices On 18 Aug 2005 at 7:04, Greg Sevart wrote: It wouldn't be near $80/barrel. I had seen testimony from oil drilling firms who stated that because of the difficulty of drilling through permafrost, only having seasonal access (because they can't drive the big rigs over it during the thaw months), and all the extra safeguards to prevent oil spilling in a wildlife protected area, the cost per barrel would be over $80. I assumed they knew of what they spoke. Vince
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
On 18 Aug 2005 at 7:04, Greg Sevart wrote: > It wouldn't be near $80/barrel. I had seen testimony from oil drilling firms who stated that because of the difficulty of drilling through permafrost, only having seasonal access (because they can't drive the big rigs over it during the thaw months), and all the extra safeguards to prevent oil spilling in a wildlife protected area, the cost per barrel would be over $80. I assumed they knew of what they spoke. Vince
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
You Aussies get nicer cars, I believe the WRX sold in australia has much more aggressive tuning than the one in the US because of the availability of higer octane gas and less onerous polution laws, hardware wise the the US model gets a cat pre turbo other than that the only diff is the tune..and the japan/australian model generates 25 to 35 more hp On 8/18/05, Tony Antoniou <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Only one problem with ethanol ... crap energy density compared to petroleum. > I'm sticking to Shell Optimax premium fuel thanks to its turbo friendly > additives. > > Besides which, our cars here in Australia at least can't handle anything > more than 10% ethanol in our petrol as it results in engine and fuel system > damage. It has been documented for some time here. I'd like to see how your > cars can survive on ethanol yet ours suffer. Must be something in the > engineering of the engines and fuel systems that the ethanol otherwise > attacks in our systems. > > > Adios, > Tony > > --- TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums --- > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane > Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 6:44 > To: The Hardware List > Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > > Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The > > oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind > inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in > the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the > inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at > > 50% or more by now! > > > > -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
Hoping to get away from high prices for fuel is unrealistic, also, no matter where the energy comes from. Prices are supply and demand driven. Any decrease in price caused by an increase in supply is offset by an increase in demand. In the case of oil, prices have recently been driven NOT by supply and demand, but by the fears of supply and demand. Easily 50% of the cost of oil today is a premium built not on actual supply or demand, but mere speculation and the fear of supply disruptions. Currently, there is plenty of supply to meet demand, but the margin is slim. Economics 101 doesn't (directly) apply here. Greg
RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Only one problem with ethanol ... crap energy density compared to petroleum. I'm sticking to Shell Optimax premium fuel thanks to its turbo friendly additives. Besides which, our cars here in Australia at least can't handle anything more than 10% ethanol in our petrol as it results in engine and fuel system damage. It has been documented for some time here. I'd like to see how your cars can survive on ethanol yet ours suffer. Must be something in the engineering of the engines and fuel systems that the ethanol otherwise attacks in our systems. Adios, Tony --- TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums --- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 6:44 To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at 50% or more by now!
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
In the case of oil, prices have recently been driven NOT by supply and demand, but by the fears of supply and demand. Easily 50% of the cost of oil Collectively we demand it enough to pay the price they put on it. Are you saying that if all discretionary use was suddenly discontinued the price would stay the same? Re-read my first message. I'm not saying that the prices would remain the same. They would, indeed, go down if we were able to significantly reduce usage. However, this would be based not on any real supply/demand pricing forces, but by the fact that the improved margin between supply and demand would reduce fears of the market of a supply shortage. This would result in an immediate effort of profit taking by speculators holding oil contracts, and the price would come down. Greg
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
Remember the "precious juice" in The Road Warrior? Sci-Fi can sometimes
project earlier than we realize.
From: Wayne Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:16:14 -0400
At 09:45 PM 8/17/2005, FORC5 typed:
drug cartel ought to be looking here :{)
new black market
There was a James Bond movie where they put some drug into gasoline then
distilled the gasoline once it arrived at it's final destination. I wonder
if that added horsepower but I would be afraid to put anything in gasoline
these days for fear of running the liquid gold. ;-)
--+--
Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
<http://www.wavijo.com>
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
Going by: http://www.doi.gov/news/030312.htm ANWR can only produce 1,400,000 barrels a day, otherwise known as way less then our middle east imports. I very strongly suspect that the 1.4mbpd figure is an economically viable figure. Given that oil prices have more than doubled since the release date of that document (March of 2003), I would expect there is more than 1.4mbpd of economically viable oil today. Additionally, it is very difficult to be sure how much oil is really there. Measuring expeditions have been limited, and the figures vary wildly among the estimates that have been taken. I will say, however, that I recall the 30 year replacement of all middle east oil being an optimistic figure. Greg
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
Foreign Affairs magazine from a couple of years ago theorized that if the fed's had kept up the level of energy conservation R&D funding as was spent from the early 70s to the early 80s we wouldn't have to worry about foreign at all by the late 90s, unfortunately by late 80s most of the big federal money go to that type of R&D(energy conservation) dried up. Same article I believe dug up some research done by oil companies and even they figured that ANWR production would not be profitable unless prices went up to $50/barrel. Just curious how things work out. On 8/18/05, Greg Sevart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hoping to get away from high prices for fuel is unrealistic, also, no > > matter where the energy comes from. Prices are supply and demand driven. > > Any decrease in price caused by an increase in supply is offset by an > > increase in demand. > > > > In the case of oil, prices have recently been driven NOT by supply and > demand, but by the fears of supply and demand. Easily 50% of the cost of oil > today is a premium built not on actual supply or demand, but mere > speculation and the fear of supply disruptions. Currently, there is plenty > of supply to meet demand, but the margin is slim. > > Economics 101 doesn't (directly) apply here. > > Greg > > > -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
- Original Message - From: "Greg Sevart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Hardware List" Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 9:20 AM Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices In the case of oil, prices have recently been driven NOT by supply and demand, but by the fears of supply and demand. Easily 50% of the cost of oil Collectively we demand it enough to pay the price they put on it. Are you saying that if all discretionary use was suddenly discontinued the price would stay the same? No need to even argue this point as it is not going to happen. Chuck
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
One big thing that could have helped decrease our need for oil was not in the energy bill, increased fuel efficienct standards (CAFE). But it did include an extension of a provison that extends how long automakers receive fuel economy credits so a way to keep the weak CAFE standards even weaker. As to ANWR: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/25/AR2005072501707_2.html Bush has pushed to open Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling, to tap what geologists say is one of the few remaining areas of the country that hold promise for major new production. Without that new drilling, net oil imports would be 68 percent in 2025, according to the Energy Department's Energy Information Administration. With drilling in the refuge, net oil imports would account for 64 percent of consumption in 2025, according to the EIA. The middle east only accounts for 4% or our oil? I think not. May 2005, oild imports per day from the middle east were 2,355,000 barrels (1,526,000 from Suadi Arabia) verses 13,495,000 barrels imported in total. http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/petroleum_supply_monthly/current/pdf/table37.pdf (and that only counts Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and United Arab Emirates. as part of the middle east) Going by: http://www.doi.gov/news/030312.htm ANWR can only produce 1,400,000 barrels a day, otherwise known as way less then our middle east imports. - Original Message - From: "Greg Sevart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Hardware List" Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices > ...but given that we produce something like ~40% of our oil DOMESTICALLY, and the majority of the remainder comes from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela, we wouldn't need to replace 100% of our oil consumption with oil from the ANWR. Even if we only replaced 50% of are imported oil, that would merely double the six months to a year. Drilling for oil in the ANWR would NOT significantly reduce our dependence on foreign countries for oil. Therefore, his statement is correct: it would not provide energy independence. However, it COULD dramatically reduce our dependence on *middle eastern* countries. Unless estimates of oil in the ANWR have significantly changed in the past few years, or our imports from the middle eastern regions have increased dramatically, I am absolutely positive that the 30 year figure is correct. That being said, I have mixed feelings on drilling in the ANWR. It would be 5-12 years before any useful oil came from it Not to mention that because it would involve drilling trough permafrost, it would be North of $80/barrel oil or more. That won't help us with the price at all. It wouldn't be near $80/barrel. Like I said, I did a lot of research on the ANWR in spring of 2002. At that time, with gas prices what they were then ($1.40?), there was still a lot of economically viable oil. With the price of oil triple what it was then, there's a lot more. But again, drilling in the ANWR isn't that great of an idea. Greg
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
Canadian entrepenuers have found a much more efficient way to extract pure crude from oil sands (basically black sand/oil mixture that has proved futile and too costly to extract in the past). http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:TNFRzt0NrMoJ:news.yahoo.com/s/thedeal/20050808/bs_deal_thedeal/canadasoilsandsmaysparkfrenzy+canada+oil+sand&hl=en From: FORC5 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: The Hardware List To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:03:59 -0700 hope so, especially since Canada is drilling not far from where we want to drill. but that is only a beginning, lot more to do. I suspect the Caribou population may double. fp At 01:58 PM 8/17/2005, Ben Ruset Poked the stick with: >Didn't drilling in Alaska just pass? > >I consider myself an environmentalist and I support drilling in Alaska. > >>From: FORC5 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Date: Wed Aug 17 15:55:00 CDT 2005 >>To: The Hardware List >>Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices > >>PPL here bitch about the prices but are not willing to doanything about it. Non new refineries in 30 years, and no drilling inAlaska. >>me, I'd say piss on the Saudi's ( no offense ) , let them see if they cansquirt that oil on the sand and grow food with it !!! >:-} >>if it were up to me I'd cut them off completely, then there might be aoil price war and prices may come down. >>BTW I'm tired of *adjusted for inflation* BS. inflation did not go up150% in a year >> >>bo haha >> >>At 01:17 PM 8/17/2005, Zulfiqar Naushad Poked the stick with: >>Gas prices expensive??? >> >>Here in Saudi Arabia the state price (i.e. nothing less or morethan >>the state price is available at any gas station) is .90 halalas(cent >>equivalent of a riyal(dollar)) per liter. >> >>i.e 1 Gallon = 90 US cents. >> >> >>BWAHAHAHAH!!! >> >>Almost every car here in Saudi is a V6 or a V8!!! >> >> >>They love suburbans and expeditions here!!! >> >> >> >>On Aug 17, 2005, at 7:14 PM, Thane Sherrington wrote: >> >>Our gas prices climbed $0.06 perlitre yesterday, so we are at >>$4.27 US per gallon now. Just wondering what you're paying downin >>there. >> >>T >> >> >>-- >>Tallyho ! ]:8) >>Taglines below ! >>-- >>And all the children are above average in our system. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- And all the children are above average in our system.
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
- Original Message - From: "Greg Sevart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Hardware List" Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices lately, but even they aren't as bad the middle east. Hoping to get completely away from oil imports in the near term is unrealistic. Hoping to get away from high prices for fuel is unrealistic, also, no matter where the energy comes from. Prices are supply and demand driven. Any decrease in price caused by an increase in supply is offset by an increase in demand. Example: A cheapskate who has plenty of discretionary income has cut his gasoline consumption from 100 gallons per week to 50 gallons per week because prices went up and supply went down. Note that his 100 gallons per week habit caused prices to go up. Once he sees lower prices he goes right back to using 100 gallons per week, thus fueling the vicious cycle. No increase in supply from new drilling areas or any new source can lower prices for long as those who have a choice will choose to use more and soak up all of the increase in supply. "Discretionary" is when a cheapskate goes boating with a friend who owns a speedboat and hands him $5.00 to defray the cost of his gasoline while the others hand him twenty dollar bills which is realistic. He did not have to take the boat out, but if he commutes to work in his car he did have to buy his automobile fuel. Boating is discretionary but transportation to and from work is not. Stupid sign in the restroom in a public building (lots of people work there and visit there on business) "Turn off the lights upon leaving. Conserve energy." I wonder how much energy it takes to start up all those fluorescent lights in there! If you maintain a public restroom, conserve the quality of the air! Install auto flushers on all of the urinals. Don't worry about the lights! My guess is: Incandescent lights. Turn these off if you do not need them for 30 minutes or longer. Fluorescent lights. Turn these off if you do not need them for an hour or longer. Chuck
RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
GM took out the rail road tracks from the streets of Los Angeles in the 50's. XXX corporation(s) took out the validity of the Utah experiment in the 90's. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of jeff.lane Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:00 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices Like cold fusion? There were a couple of scientists, in Utah, several years ago that claimed they had made cold fusion work. That is clean, safe, perpetual, fusion .I don't recall their names but they had the scientific world standing on it's head for sometime until they discovered that it was not completely perfect, i.e., infinitely renewable. My question would be just how long did this run without renewal? After the idea of infinity went away nobody heard anything about these guys. If they had discovered pure cold fusion we could power a whole city in a clean reactor no bigger that a service station, if that big. The pellet to run a car thingall of it runs forever. Anybody think this won't or can't happen, or for that matter, may already be there??? Jeff - Original Message - From: "007" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Hardware List" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:49 AM Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices >I was referring to fission technology (U235). Since fusion is years away. > > 007. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of 007 > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:26 PM > To: The Hardware List > Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > > > The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. > > 007. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM > To: The Hardware List > Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices > > > On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: > >> It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. >> So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how >> much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. > > I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit > on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up > 5% because then thier profit goes up too. > > Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 > cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my > point =) > > > Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead > of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! > > > Christopher Fisk > -- > I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS > I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS > Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
- Original Message - From: "Wayne Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Hardware List" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 10:16 PM Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices There was a James Bond movie where they put some drug into gasoline then distilled the gasoline once it arrived at it's final destination. I wonder if that added horsepower but I would be afraid to put anything in gasoline these days for fear of running the liquid gold. ;-) People in warmer climates may have to take a closer look at converting gasoline engines to propane engines. I do not know how propane would act in zero degrees F. One of my former jobs was hauling propane, 9500 gallons per load on an 18 wheeler tanker truck. The internal pressure of the tank was close to double the air temperature outside of the tank. Examples: If it was 30 degrees F on the outside the internal pressure was 60 pounds per square inch. If it was 90 degrees F on the outside the internal pressure was 180 pounds per square inch. This may be one reason that propane is not a popular fuel for heating or transportation in cold climates. The price of propane vs. fuel oil may be the main reason that propane is not used in colder climates. In our South Georgia area propane is popular for home heating, water heating and cooking fuel. Propane was more economical than electricity a few decades ago. Now electricity is more of a bargain since propane prices rise along with the price of gasoline and diesel fuel. A total electric home may be economical here in a warmer climate but more expensive than fuel oil in a colder climate. Although high, the price of electricity is more stable than the price of liquid fuels. Our average here in Albany, GA is around 8.5 cents per kilowatt hour during the 4 months we are on a Summer rate and lower the other 8 months. It did not jump 25% like gasoline did or it would be over 10.5 cents per kilowatt hour now. We use over 3000 kilowatt hours per month in the hot Summer months for our 1568 square feet home. Try that if you are on ConEdison in New York and you would have to mortgage the home to pay the bill. Chuck
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
...but given that we produce something like ~40% of our oil DOMESTICALLY, and the majority of the remainder comes from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela, we wouldn't need to replace 100% of our oil consumption with oil from the ANWR. Even if we only replaced 50% of are imported oil, that would merely double the six months to a year. But the point is that oil coming from Canada and Mexico (where most of our imports come from) isn't a problem. Venezuela has been ripe with issues lately, but even they aren't as bad the middle east. Hoping to get completely away from oil imports in the near term is unrealistic. When I was researching the issue back in spring of 2002, the figure that I heard was that ANWR oil could COMPLETELY REPLACE middle-eastern imports for a period of 30 years. I seriously doubt that. Remember the rest of Energy Secretary Abraham's quote: "Americans should not overestimate this region's ability to provide the nation with energy independence" Something I doubt he would say if the region could "COMPLETELY REPLACE middle-eastern imports for a period of 30 years" Drilling for oil in the ANWR would NOT significantly reduce our dependence on foreign countries for oil. Therefore, his statement is correct: it would not provide energy independence. However, it COULD dramatically reduce our dependence on *middle eastern* countries. Unless estimates of oil in the ANWR have significantly changed in the past few years, or our imports from the middle eastern regions have increased dramatically, I am absolutely positive that the 30 year figure is correct. That being said, I have mixed feelings on drilling in the ANWR. It would be 5-12 years before any useful oil came from it Not to mention that because it would involve drilling trough permafrost, it would be North of $80/barrel oil or more. That won't help us with the price at all. It wouldn't be near $80/barrel. Like I said, I did a lot of research on the ANWR in spring of 2002. At that time, with gas prices what they were then ($1.40?), there was still a lot of economically viable oil. With the price of oil triple what it was then, there's a lot more. But again, drilling in the ANWR isn't that great of an idea. Greg
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
It's very beautiful out here and there is a lot to do on the West Side. 5 Million people living there. It is just the State Government has always ripped everyone off ever since I can remember, and that is a long time. You will enjoy your stay, though. Gas is 2.55-2.65 average so that is pretty much like everyone else. Way too much!!! Jeff - Original Message - From: "Mark Dodge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Hardware List'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:51 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Crap, I'm moving to Seattle Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 4:57 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Spokane - Original Message - From: "Mark Dodge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Hardware List'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices You don't live in Washington do you? Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date: 8/17/2005
RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Crap, I'm moving to Seattle Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 4:57 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Spokane - Original Message - From: "Mark Dodge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Hardware List'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > You don't live in Washington do you? > > > Mark Dodge > MD Computers > 602-421-0329 > -Original Message- > BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our > state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per > carton > increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only > estate > taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now!
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
My next door neighbor just moved up there. Small world - Original Message - From: "Julian Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Hardware List" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 10:37 PM Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Hey, no shit... I just live a little north of you. I'm in Elk. Julian At 04:57 PM 8/17/2005, jeff.lane wrote: Spokane - Original Message - From: "Mark Dodge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Hardware List'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices You don't live in Washington do you? -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date: 8/17/2005
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Hey, no shit... I just live a little north of you. I'm in Elk. Julian At 04:57 PM 8/17/2005, jeff.lane wrote: Spokane - Original Message - From: "Mark Dodge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Hardware List'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices You don't live in Washington do you?
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
On 17 Aug 2005 at 18:29, Greg Sevart wrote: > ...but given that we produce something like ~40% of our oil > DOMESTICALLY, and the majority of the remainder comes from Canada, > Mexico, and Venezuela, we wouldn't need to replace 100% of our oil > consumption with oil from the ANWR. Even if we only replaced 50% of are imported oil, that would merely double the six months to a year. > When I was researching the issue back in spring of 2002, the figure > that I heard was that ANWR oil could COMPLETELY REPLACE middle-eastern > imports for a period of 30 years. I seriously doubt that. Remember the rest of Energy Secretary Abraham's quote: "Americans should not overestimate this region's ability to provide the nation with energy independence" Something I doubt he would say if the region could "COMPLETELY REPLACE middle-eastern imports for a period of 30 years" > That being said, I have mixed feelings on drilling in the ANWR. It > would be 5-12 years before any useful oil came from it Not to mention that because it would involve drilling trough permafrost, it would be North of $80/barrel oil or more. That won't help us with the price at all. Vince
RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Nope, drilling in the ANWR was dropped from the energy bill before it passed. (Drilling for/pumping oil has been permitted in other parts of Alaska, mostly the North Slope area, for a long time.) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Ruset Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 4:59 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices Didn't drilling in Alaska just pass? I consider myself an environmentalist and I support drilling in Alaska.
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
At 09:45 PM 8/17/2005, FORC5 typed:
drug cartel ought to be looking here :{)
new black market
There was a James Bond movie where they put some drug into gasoline then
distilled the gasoline once it arrived at it's final destination. I wonder
if that added horsepower but I would be afraid to put anything in gasoline
these days for fear of running the liquid gold. ;-)
--+--
Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
drug cartel ought to be looking here :{)
new black market
At 05:00 PM 8/17/2005, Analyst Poked the stick with:
To really get your blood
boiling, gasoline in Venezuela is only 25 cents a gallon.
Anybody want to captain a tanker full of gasoline back to the U.S. ?
(Talk about ridin' a rocket)
Vince
--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Imagine the silence if everyone said only what they know.
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Spokane - Original Message - From: "Mark Dodge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Hardware List'" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices You don't live in Washington do you? Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:44 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at 50% or more by now! We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? We all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income will go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in class Jeff From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( From: 007 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my point =) Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! Christopher Fisk -- I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date: 8/17/2005
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
and that:
"the roughly 10 billion barrels of oil expected to be found there would be
the equivalent of JUST SIX MONTHS OF U.S. CONSUMPTION"
http://www.sacbee.com/news/special/power/032001abraham.html
Vince
...but given that we produce something like ~40% of our oil DOMESTICALLY,
and the majority of the remainder comes from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela,
we wouldn't need to replace 100% of our oil consumption with oil from the
ANWR. When I was researching the issue back in spring of 2002, the figure
that I heard was that ANWR oil could COMPLETELY REPLACE middle-eastern
imports for a period of 30 years. Folks, in 30 years, we probably won't be
driving internal combustion powered vehicles, so it sounds good to me.
That being said, I have mixed feelings on drilling in the ANWR. It would be
5-12 years before any useful oil came from it, and I fully expect
alternatively fueled cars to be pretty popular by then. I think it is more
of a political thing ("See! We did something! Vote for me again!") than a
real measure to offset either high energy prices or reliance on unstable
regions.
Greg
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
On 17 Aug 2005 at 15:58, Ben Ruset wrote: > Didn't drilling in Alaska just pass? No, it is supposed to be jammed into the upcoming budget bill. > I consider myself an environmentalist and I support drilling in Alaska. You'll likely be disappointed. Spence Abraham, who was this administration's Secretary of Energy in the first term, told the Sacramento Bee newspaper that: "Americans should not overestimate this region's ability to provide the nation with energy independence" and that: "the roughly 10 billion barrels of oil expected to be found there would be the equivalent of JUST SIX MONTHS OF U.S. CONSUMPTION" http://www.sacbee.com/news/special/power/032001abraham.html Vince
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
On 17 Aug 2005 at 15:26, Ben Ruset wrote: > Further proof that the oil companies are gouging customers outside the > mideast. You can't tell me that there is a ~$1.60/gal charge that goes > to only pay transport and taxes. > > >From: Zulfiqar Naushad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Date: Wed Aug 17 15:17:29 CDT 2005 > >To: The Hardware List > >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices > > >Gas prices expensive??? > > > >Here in Saudi Arabia the state price (i.e. nothing less or more than > >the state price is available at any gas station) is .90 halalas (cent > > equivalent of a riyal(dollar)) per liter. > > > >i.e 1 Gallon = 90 US cents. To really get your blood boiling, gasoline in Venezuela is only 25 cents a gallon. Anybody want to captain a tanker full of gasoline back to the U.S. ? (Talk about ridin' a rocket) Vince
RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
You don't live in Washington do you? Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:44 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at 50% or more by now! We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? We all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income will go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in class Jeff From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices >A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It >cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. > > Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( > >>From: 007 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 >>To: The Hardware List >>Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > >>The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. >> >>007. >> >>-Original Message- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher >>Fisk >>Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM >>To: The Hardware List >>Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices >> >> >>On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: >> >>> It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. >>> So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and >>> how much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. >> >>I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% >>profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier >>costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. >> >>Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they >>make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, >>you get my point =) >> >> >>Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel >>instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! >> >> >>Christopher Fisk >>-- >>I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >>I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >> Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
hope so, especially since Canada is drilling not far from where we want to drill. but that is only a beginning, lot more to do. I suspect the Caribou population may double. fp At 01:58 PM 8/17/2005, Ben Ruset Poked the stick with: Didn't drilling in Alaska just pass? I consider myself an environmentalist and I support drilling in Alaska. >From: FORC5 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 15:55:00 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices >PPL here bitch about the prices but are not willing to doanything about it. Non new refineries in 30 years, and no drilling inAlaska. >me, I'd say piss on the Saudi's ( no offense ) , let them see if they cansquirt that oil on the sand and grow food with it !!! >:-} >if it were up to me I'd cut them off completely, then there might be aoil price war and prices may come down. >BTW I'm tired of *adjusted for inflation* BS. inflation did not go up150% in a year > >bo haha > >At 01:17 PM 8/17/2005, Zulfiqar Naushad Poked the stick with: >Gas prices expensive??? > >Here in Saudi Arabia the state price (i.e. nothing less or morethan >the state price is available at any gas station) is .90 halalas(cent >equivalent of a riyal(dollar)) per liter. > >i.e 1 Gallon = 90 US cents. > > >BWAHAHAHAH!!! > >Almost every car here in Saudi is a V6 or a V8!!! > > >They love suburbans and expeditions here!!! > > > >On Aug 17, 2005, at 7:14 PM, Thane Sherrington wrote: > >Our gas prices climbed $0.06 perlitre yesterday, so we are at >$4.27 US per gallon now. Just wondering what you're paying downin >there. > >T > > >-- >Tallyho ! ]:8) >Taglines below ! >-- >And all the children are above average in our system. -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- And all the children are above average in our system.
Re: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
The oil companies probably had them killed or paid off. >From: "jeff.lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 16:00:17 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices >Like cold fusion? There were a couple of scientists, in Utah, several years >ago that claimed they had made cold fusion work. That is clean, safe, >perpetual, fusion .I don't recall their names but they had the scientific >world standing on it's head for sometime until they discovered that it was >not completely perfect, i.e., infinitely renewable. My question would be >just how long did this run without renewal? After the idea of infinity went >away nobody heard anything about these guys. If they had discovered pure >cold fusion we could power a whole city in a clean reactor no bigger that a >service station, if that big. The pellet to run a car thingall of it >runs forever. Anybody think this won't or can't happen, or for that matter, >may already be there??? > >Jeff > >- Original Message - >From: "007" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "The Hardware List" >Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:49 AM >Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > > >>I was referring to fission technology (U235). Since fusion is years away. >> >> 007. >> >> -Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of 007 >> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:26 PM >> To: The Hardware List >> Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices >> >> >> The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. >> >> 007. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk >> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM >> To: The Hardware List >> Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices >> >> >> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: >> >>> It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. >>> So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how >>> much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. >> >> I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit >> on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up >> 5% because then thier profit goes up too. >> >> Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 >> cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my >> point =) >> >> >> Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead >> of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! >> >> >> Christopher Fisk >> -- >> I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >> I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >> Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
Like cold fusion? There were a couple of scientists, in Utah, several years ago that claimed they had made cold fusion work. That is clean, safe, perpetual, fusion .I don't recall their names but they had the scientific world standing on it's head for sometime until they discovered that it was not completely perfect, i.e., infinitely renewable. My question would be just how long did this run without renewal? After the idea of infinity went away nobody heard anything about these guys. If they had discovered pure cold fusion we could power a whole city in a clean reactor no bigger that a service station, if that big. The pellet to run a car thingall of it runs forever. Anybody think this won't or can't happen, or for that matter, may already be there??? Jeff - Original Message - From: "007" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Hardware List" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:49 AM Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices I was referring to fission technology (U235). Since fusion is years away. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of 007 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:26 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my point =) Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! Christopher Fisk -- I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
Didn't drilling in Alaska just pass? I consider myself an environmentalist and I support drilling in Alaska. >From: FORC5 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 15:55:00 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices >PPL here bitch about the prices but are not willing to doanything about it. >Non new refineries in 30 years, and no drilling inAlaska. >me, I'd say piss on the Saudi's ( no offense ) , let them see if they >cansquirt that oil on the sand and grow food with it !!! >:-} >if it were up to me I'd cut them off completely, then there might be aoil >price war and prices may come down. >BTW I'm tired of *adjusted for inflation* BS. inflation did not go up150% in a >year > >bo haha > >At 01:17 PM 8/17/2005, Zulfiqar Naushad Poked the stick with: >Gas prices expensive??? > >Here in Saudi Arabia the state price (i.e. nothing less or morethan >the state price is available at any gas station) is .90 halalas(cent >equivalent of a riyal(dollar)) per liter. > >i.e 1 Gallon = 90 US cents. > > >BWAHAHAHAH!!! > >Almost every car here in Saudi is a V6 or a V8!!! > > >They love suburbans and expeditions here!!! > > > >On Aug 17, 2005, at 7:14 PM, Thane Sherrington wrote: > >Our gas prices climbed $0.06 perlitre yesterday, so we are at >$4.27 US per gallon now. Just wondering what you're paying downin >there. > >T > > >-- >Tallyho ! ]:8) >Taglines below ! >-- >And all the children are above average in our system.
Re: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
I am all about Ethanol. Unfortunately in the US the corn farmers are pushing for it. Making Ethanol from Corn is the most inefficient way of doing it, and supposedly yeilds less energy than what was spent in producing it. Making Ethanol from sugar cane, as Brazil has done, makes MORE energy than what was spent in producing it, and has limited Brazil's dependance on foreign oil. >From: "jeff.lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 15:43:42 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices >Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The >oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind >inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in >the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the >inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at >50% or more by now! > >We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? We >all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not >too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in >disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to >anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. > >BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our >state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton >increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate >taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! > >Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income will >go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in >class........ > >Jeff > >From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices > > >>A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked >>the water into hydrogen within the car itself. >> >> Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( >> >>>From: 007 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 >>>To: The Hardware List >>>Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices >> >>>The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. >>> >>>007. >>> >>>-Original Message- >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM >>>To: The Hardware List >>>Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices >>> >>> >>>On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: >>> >>>> It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. >>>> So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how >>>> much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. >>> >>>I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit >>>on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up >>>5% because then thier profit goes up too. >>> >>>Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 >>>cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my >>>point =) >>> >>> >>>Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead >>>of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! >>> >>> >>>Christopher Fisk >>>-- >>>I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >>>I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >>> Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Fuel cells are a very good alternative and should be practically available in the near future. Jeff - Original Message - From: "Christopher Fisk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Hardware List" Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:39 AM Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( This doesn't make sense. It takes energy to split water into Oxygen and hydrogen. To then burn that hydrogen to power the car is just a waste of energy. Why not just use the energy used to crack the water to power the car? There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine =) Christopher Fisk -- BOFH Excuse #330: quantum decoherence
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at 50% or more by now! We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? We all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income will go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in class Jeff From: "Ben Ruset" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( From: 007 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my point =) Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! Christopher Fisk -- I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
Further proof that the oil companies are gouging customers outside the mideast. You can't tell me that there is a ~$1.60/gal charge that goes to only pay transport and taxes. >From: Zulfiqar Naushad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 15:17:29 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices >Gas prices expensive??? > >Here in Saudi Arabia the state price (i.e. nothing less or more than >the state price is available at any gas station) is .90 halalas (cent >equivalent of a riyal(dollar)) per liter. > >i.e 1 Gallon = 90 US cents. > > >BWAHAHAHAH!!! > >Almost every car here in Saudi is a V6 or a V8!!! > > >They love suburbans and expeditions here!!! > > > >On Aug 17, 2005, at 7:14 PM, Thane Sherrington wrote: > >> Our gas prices climbed $0.06 per litre yesterday, so we are at >> $4.27 US per gallon now. Just wondering what you're paying down in >> there. >> >> T >> >>
Re: Re: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
So then if you're already filling your tank, what's the point of cracking more? Seems like it would add needless expense, complexity, and weight to the vehicle. >From: Thane Sherrington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 15:00:37 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices >At 04:51 PM 17/08/2005, Ben Ruset wrote: >>If you're cracking hydrogen in your car why would you need to fill up at a >>station? > >Because cracking hydrogen requires more power than you can generate on >current solar panels small enough to fit on a car roof. IIRC, there's a >company here that sells a 4x2 solar panel that generates 10W. There's no >way that's enough power to generate hydrogen on the fly. > >T
Re: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
At 04:51 PM 17/08/2005, Ben Ruset wrote: If you're cracking hydrogen in your car why would you need to fill up at a station? Because cracking hydrogen requires more power than you can generate on current solar panels small enough to fit on a car roof. IIRC, there's a company here that sells a 4x2 solar panel that generates 10W. There's no way that's enough power to generate hydrogen on the fly. T
Re: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
If you're cracking hydrogen in your car why would you need to fill up at a station? >From: Thane Sherrington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 13:56:41 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices >At 03:52 PM 17/08/2005, Gary VanderMolen wrote: > > >>Did someone repeal the laws of physics and chemistry? >> >>It takes more energy to crack water than you get back when >>recombining the hydrogen and oxygen. > >I think that report was a misunderstanding of the technology. The idea is >to use solar power in a large plant to crack water into hydrogen. You >would fill up with hydrogen at a gas station, and burn it in your >car. Hummer is releasing a model that does this as well. Hydrogen is an >energy carrier like oil, it isn't free energy. > >T
Re: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: The energy to crack the water was from solar panels mounted on the roof. Apparently they have a similar system now hybridized with a gasoline engine in a 7 series. Again, why? Just use the damn electricity from the solor panels to power the car, none of this "make your own hydrogen" step. Solar panels can't provide enough power to run a full sized car, let alone enough to crack the water into hydrogen at a rate to power a car. I believe you are reading the page wrong too. This image here explains: http://www.bmwworld.com/images/cars/7er/clean_energy.gif The hydrogen is created via solor power elsewhere, not "cracked in the car". The physics of it just wouldn't work at this time. Christopher Fisk -- BOFH Excuse #250: Program load too heavy for processor to lift.
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
At 03:52 PM 17/08/2005, Gary VanderMolen wrote: Did someone repeal the laws of physics and chemistry? It takes more energy to crack water than you get back when recombining the hydrogen and oxygen. I think that report was a misunderstanding of the technology. The idea is to use solar power in a large plant to crack water into hydrogen. You would fill up with hydrogen at a gas station, and burn it in your car. Hummer is releasing a model that does this as well. Hydrogen is an energy carrier like oil, it isn't free energy. T
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
Ben Ruset wrote: A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( Did someone repeal the laws of physics and chemistry? It takes more energy to crack water than you get back when recombining the hydrogen and oxygen. Gary VanderMolen
RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
I was referring to fission technology (U235). Since fusion is years away. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of 007 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:26 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: > It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. > So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how > much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my point =) Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! Christopher Fisk -- I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
The energy to crack the water was from solar panels mounted on the roof. Apparently they have a similar system now hybridized with a gasoline engine in a 7 series. http://www.bmwworld.com/models/750hl.htm >From: Christopher Fisk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 13:39:10 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices >On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: > >> A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It >> cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. >> >> Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( > >This doesn't make sense. It takes energy to split water into Oxygen and >hydrogen. To then burn that hydrogen to power the car is just a waste of >energy. Why not just use the energy used to crack the water to power the >car? There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine =) > > > >Christopher Fisk >-- >BOFH Excuse #330: >quantum decoherence
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( This doesn't make sense. It takes energy to split water into Oxygen and hydrogen. To then burn that hydrogen to power the car is just a waste of energy. Why not just use the energy used to crack the water to power the car? There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine =) Christopher Fisk -- BOFH Excuse #330: quantum decoherence
Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( >From: 007 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 >To: The Hardware List >Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices >The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. > >007. > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk >Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM >To: The Hardware List >Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices > > >On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: > >> It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. >> So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how >> much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. > >I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit >on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up >5% because then thier profit goes up too. > >Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 >cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my >point =) > > >Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead >of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! > > >Christopher Fisk >-- >I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS >I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS > Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: > It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. > So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how > much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my point =) Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! Christopher Fisk -- I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
At 03:23 PM 17/08/2005, Bobby Heid wrote: I hope you meant $30/barrel! LOL. Sorry, barrel. :) T
RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
I hope you meant $30/barrel! LOL. Bobby -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices There was a study in Canada that found that the real cost of oil is $30 per gallon. Everything above that is fear.
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my point =) Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! Christopher Fisk -- I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
At 03:02 PM 17/08/2005, Ben Ruset wrote: I paid $2.55/gal for Regular today. I just wonder if we'll ever get back to the $1.50/gal days again. As harsh as it sounds, low gas prices are a lot more important to me that supporing anybody's agenda or liberating other countries. There was a study in Canada that found that the real cost of oil is $30 per gallon. Everything above that is fear. T
Re: Re: [H] Gas prices
I paid $2.55/gal for Regular today. I just wonder if we'll ever get back to the $1.50/gal days again. As harsh as it sounds, low gas prices are a lot more important to me that supporing anybody's agenda or liberating other countries. It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline.
