Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Thats the way we are going at. I think they forgot the fact that people who ran servers, helped their games to be successfull in the past. They have the money and resources so i guess we became redundant. Valve is going to run more and more servers and go with the style of the big companies, that don't share dedicated servers on their games to the public or do it in the matter of putting those in their own little corner separated from others. For CSGO, i run a server that is full days and evenings when people in my area have free time. Only reason i can think of why it is such, is the tickrate difference. Valve runs 64, i run 128. People want that, so they come here to play. Valve Increases tickrate (as in cut quickplay off in TF2), and i soon have an empty server, because it's already off from the main branch in it's own little corner like our TF2 servers are now. Best thing to protest against this change would be shut down our servers, even the biggest ones, for a day but that will never happen. Nobody risks / wants to kill off their current playerbase, not even for a day. -ics Doctor McKay kirjoitti: If there's a TF3, I have no doubts that it'll be like CS:GO (barely any community servers, heavy emphasis on official servers) or Dota 2 (no community servers whatsoever). Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
If there's a TF3, I have no doubts that it'll be like CS:GO (barely any community servers, heavy emphasis on official servers) or Dota 2 (no community servers whatsoever). Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Jason wrote: > Fully support what you've been saying Dr. McKay many "make fun" for my > communities' rules (the main one is simply "Don't be a dick") because they > either don't like consequences that happen because of their actions or they > just feel they should be able to do or say whatever they want wherever they > go because "it's a free country". 1) My server isn't a country -- you > don't like it go somewhere else if you can't play by the rules set forth. > 2) Players who are trolls or dicks are dealt with as they are disruptive > to a community who prides themselves on being just that: A COMMUNITY (no > matter how small or large). If you want to ruin others' fun, go elsewhere. > > Our servers are modded for a "fun" factor, not for Quickplay for for > "hardcore" TF2 purists and we run our servers to suit the play style or > desire of fun that OUR community enjoys. Having said that, we do have one > server which *IS* quickplay enabled and it has all but died out as we > hardly see ANY traffic anymore and this seems to be putting the nail in the > coffin. I am a strong supporter of the server admins/owners and the > communities they run, who help make the TF2 community as a whole what it is > from the get go, now.they are getting kicked in the teeth just because > a heavy hand comes down to deliver "justice" to a few but punishing the > rest of us. > > I just wish there was a way for server owners who operated communities > (small, medium and large) to be able to "protest" and make a statement to > valvethe problem is, valve doesn't seem to care and a protest would > only further drive people to their servers anyways. > > Will there be a TF3 and this sort of treatment continue? I don't know, but > my community is already looking for another game or multiple games to get > intoso even if these changes don't affect me as much as other server > owners, I still wanted to voice my support for Dr. McKay and all those > others who have spoken up against these changes by Valve. > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:51 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > > > Maybe you should consider that the game isn't being made for the > > server operator, but for the player. > > > > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > > My community's rules are intended to provide the best experience > possible > > > to the players (which is the best way we can grow). But I guess you > > > wouldn't understand that. > > > > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > > > > > >> Maybe you should consider that the game isn't being made for the > > >> server operator, but for the player. You'd have caught that point if > > >> you weren't dodging it by defending your server's rules. > > >> > > >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > >> >> No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should > > >> >> scale > > >> > back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. > > >> > > > >> > I'm concerned about the possibility of future growth of TF2. The > fact > > >> that > > >> > Valve is actively trying to cripple community servers is not my > fault. > > >> I'm > > >> > not going to shut down services due to Valve's mistakes. > > >> > > > >> >> This move might go "against server operators", but at the same time > > it > > >> >> simplifies > > >> > life for the hundreds of thousands of people who DON'T run a > > >> > server, and would rather push one button and be playing a video > game, > > >> > without worrying about whatever server they'll be redirected to, or > > >> > some > > >> > admin that will ban you for "Insubordination", or for wearing the > > wrong > > >> > clan tag (seriously go read the rules for some of these servers: > > >> > https://firepoweredgaming.com/forums/page/rules and try not to > > laugh). > > >> > > > >> > Congratulations on attacking a straw man. I don't need to defend > > myself > > >> > against the likes of you, but I'll do it anyway just to humor you. > You > > >> come > > >> > on my servers, you break a rule, an admin tells you to stop. You > > refuse > > >> to > > >> > comply. You get banned. > > >> > > > >> > You come on one of my servers and wear my community's tag without > > going > > >> > through the membership process. The server removes the tag from your > > >> > name > > >> > and informs you why. You decide to replace the brackets with > > >> > parenthesis > > >> to > > >> > get around the restriction. You get renamed by an admin. You > continue > > >> > to > > >> do > > >> > it, you get banned. > > >> > > > >> > But please feel free to continue to berate me if you feel that it > > helps > > >> > your argument, just as you're accusing others of doing. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Fully support what you've been saying Dr. McKay many "make fun" for my communities' rules (the main one is simply "Don't be a dick") because they either don't like consequences that happen because of their actions or they just feel they should be able to do or say whatever they want wherever they go because "it's a free country". 1) My server isn't a country -- you don't like it go somewhere else if you can't play by the rules set forth. 2) Players who are trolls or dicks are dealt with as they are disruptive to a community who prides themselves on being just that: A COMMUNITY (no matter how small or large). If you want to ruin others' fun, go elsewhere. Our servers are modded for a "fun" factor, not for Quickplay for for "hardcore" TF2 purists and we run our servers to suit the play style or desire of fun that OUR community enjoys. Having said that, we do have one server which *IS* quickplay enabled and it has all but died out as we hardly see ANY traffic anymore and this seems to be putting the nail in the coffin. I am a strong supporter of the server admins/owners and the communities they run, who help make the TF2 community as a whole what it is from the get go, now.they are getting kicked in the teeth just because a heavy hand comes down to deliver "justice" to a few but punishing the rest of us. I just wish there was a way for server owners who operated communities (small, medium and large) to be able to "protest" and make a statement to valvethe problem is, valve doesn't seem to care and a protest would only further drive people to their servers anyways. Will there be a TF3 and this sort of treatment continue? I don't know, but my community is already looking for another game or multiple games to get intoso even if these changes don't affect me as much as other server owners, I still wanted to voice my support for Dr. McKay and all those others who have spoken up against these changes by Valve. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:51 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > Maybe you should consider that the game isn't being made for the > server operator, but for the player. > > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > My community's rules are intended to provide the best experience possible > > to the players (which is the best way we can grow). But I guess you > > wouldn't understand that. > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > > > >> Maybe you should consider that the game isn't being made for the > >> server operator, but for the player. You'd have caught that point if > >> you weren't dodging it by defending your server's rules. > >> > >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> >> No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should > >> >> scale > >> > back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. > >> > > >> > I'm concerned about the possibility of future growth of TF2. The fact > >> that > >> > Valve is actively trying to cripple community servers is not my fault. > >> I'm > >> > not going to shut down services due to Valve's mistakes. > >> > > >> >> This move might go "against server operators", but at the same time > it > >> >> simplifies > >> > life for the hundreds of thousands of people who DON'T run a > >> > server, and would rather push one button and be playing a video game, > >> > without worrying about whatever server they'll be redirected to, or > >> > some > >> > admin that will ban you for "Insubordination", or for wearing the > wrong > >> > clan tag (seriously go read the rules for some of these servers: > >> > https://firepoweredgaming.com/forums/page/rules and try not to > laugh). > >> > > >> > Congratulations on attacking a straw man. I don't need to defend > myself > >> > against the likes of you, but I'll do it anyway just to humor you. You > >> come > >> > on my servers, you break a rule, an admin tells you to stop. You > refuse > >> to > >> > comply. You get banned. > >> > > >> > You come on one of my servers and wear my community's tag without > going > >> > through the membership process. The server removes the tag from your > >> > name > >> > and informs you why. You decide to replace the brackets with > >> > parenthesis > >> to > >> > get around the restriction. You get renamed by an admin. You continue > >> > to > >> do > >> > it, you get banned. > >> > > >> > But please feel free to continue to berate me if you feel that it > helps > >> > your argument, just as you're accusing others of doing. > >> > > >> > > >> > Dr. McKay > >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Yes the newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of > >> >> servers. > >> >> > >> >> No it's not "fair", but who was making the assumption that running a > >> Team > >> >> Fortress 2 server must be some fair utopia where we all split the > >> >> amount > >> >> of > >> >> players evenly among
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
Not sure what this is supposed to mean other than to derail the conversation like you've frequently done but I'll use this opportunity to drive these points home. If community servers did not provide any extra benefit, Valve servers would be at least as full as the top community servers but they were not. TF2 ranking websites would be filled with Valve servers like CS:GO but they were not. Therefore proving that community servers provide substantial value. Here are some examples: - Moderation for racism and vote abuse. - Faster cheat bans that happen in a matter of minutes, and not months like VAC. Bans that can't be bypassed by making a new Steam account for a few minutes. - Faster servers. It has been a long time since I've been on a Valve server but last time I checked, many community servers don't cause fps variance to turn red frequently. - We have fixed many crashes long before Valve did (some as long as several months) including: - MvM string table overflow crash on non-MvM maps - Payload cart getting stuck crash - High Five crash - Lightning orb crash - The exploit to force everyone in the server to taunt. This is just a small sample of things a community can give players that official servers do not. However these features are not enough when Valve has a monopoly on new players. If this opt-in continues to remain in the game, there maybe no one left to provide these benefits. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:35 PM, dan wrote: > On 25/01/2014 00:00, Bottiger wrote: > >> If Valve wants to provide the best experience to players they should let >> community servers compete on equal footing with official servers. >> > > They should get some real live nudes? > -- > Dan > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
Hmm ... That gives me some ideas ... Maybe I can get a sex-chat service to sponsor my servers? lol, just kidding (mostly) ___ dan Fri, 24 Jan 2014 17:35:56 -0800 They should get some real live nudes? -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
On 25/01/2014 00:00, Bottiger wrote: If Valve wants to provide the best experience to players they should let community servers compete on equal footing with official servers. They should get some real live nudes? -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
On 24/01/2014 23:31, Valentin G. wrote: Then explain how should people remedy this situation? Well, first you have to accept the premise that it probably doesn't matter if your server is full or not to anyone except you. So what "situation" is there? Things that might matter are whether there are enough servers and whether people who want to play the game can find a server that they want to play on. Right now, Valve servers are heavily biased towards new players. Which suggests to me that there won't be a lot of people using QP + official checkbox unless Valve have something else up their sleeve to use official servers for that will attract people with rudimentary motor skills and a few hours in the game. Also, that if some of those new players improve and the servers are like they are now, they will look for different people to play against - because Valve servers seem to have tapped a constant stream of new players. Presumably kids because there's a constant stream of kids one year older every year that haven't seen or experienced all the things we think everyone has seen and done because we first did them 6 years ago, or 40 years ago. That means, I expect, as players get better they will look to escape from these newer players. Perhaps some will find and join the competitive scene. Others will stop playing and find a different game. Some may find your servers. If more people use the checkbox, Valve's servers may well not be so biased towards people who haven't played much. You have to wait and see. Either way, what tends to happen is, players tend to find people who, more or less, are as good or bad as them at the game. So, the only interesting thing about a server is, aside from the few technical things they browser lists like ping and so on, the people that play on it. Ultimately players will do whatever makes them happy. Whether that makes you happy or not, they won't care and why should they? What they do after 10 hours or 5000 hours in the game probably changes several times over, and will differ from person to person, but what they do in common is "whatever they want to do" - it's a game, after all, people play it for fun. And if they can't find servers or think the game sucks yadda yadda yadda they'll moan about it on forums, but it has to be said server admins have over the recent past, managed to do the things that cause players to moan on forums about servers. Some of those things have been attacks on the server browser you hope people will use, some have been attacks on the quickplay feature, and others have been attacks on the client, especially the html rendering features. "It wasn't us miss, it was some other bigger boys that ran off that way..." I guess :) But players mostly won't care about any of the things that are worrying you. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
There's no way the 1,528 Valve servers are contributing to that. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 8:09 PM, Gordon Reynolds < thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > I do believe this is the real problem here: we all want our own servers and > there just aren't enough players to accommodate this all. > > Maybe if some of these server operators shut down 25 of their 30 servers > they'd see their other servers stay full, longer. > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:06 PM, Ilya Larin >wrote: > > > Im a new servers owner, however, im glad to see this donations based > giants > > dying (Saigns, Skial, etc.) Not being a hater, but they play unfair and > > make a wrong impression of the TF2 for new players. There a too many > > servers online (~4500) for 4-6 players.(~9-13 players per > server), > > so the Valve`s desicion is pretty reasonable. Take popcorn, and watch > this > > for a few monthes, it must clean the servers list up. > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
I created TF2 servers because we [had] a community of people who played together far before TF2 was release. I started my server because I like to run servers, I like the ego trip, and I feel I provided a great place to play TF2. My server is now dead. This could be: - Maybe I didn't run it that well. - Maybe the regulars moved on to new games. - Maybe 7 years of a changing TF2 left us with a game that isn't exactly what we signed up for back then. - Maybe quickplay revealed that most people don't care about servers, they just want to play a game. My server is now mostly dead, and that sucks, but I'm not going to look at some change to quickplay and blame Valve just because they've made it easier for the non-engaged portion of TF2 players to hit a button and play a video game. But what's not dead, is my community, because we have been around longer than TF2 and will be around long after it's gone. There are other ways to get friends on the internet rather than paying for a place for them to play video games. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 4:26 PM, Gordon Reynolds < thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > "If new players never leave the QP, Valve-Only system, how are they going > to find *your* server in the future I ask you. " > > They won't. This doesn't matter. I mean it matters to the server operator, > but we are a very tiny fraction of the TF2 audience. > > If the players are happy hitting QP with the Valve-Only system, then > really who am I to tell them they need to play on my server to enjoy the > game even more? > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Valentin G. wrote: > >> Noone has a right to a full server. But a right to at least have a >> chance to get something going. It doesn't even have to be fair, I >> never said that. Nobody expects that anyone can set up 40 servers and >> instantly have them populated 24/7. I don't have any expectations. I >> only know that I myself don't enjoy the offering of Valve's servers >> myself. Not in TF2 and especially not in CSGO. I've seen the value of >> community servers, I've done this for almost a decade now in various >> games. That's why I have an agency to keep community servers alive. >> AMXX and SM exist and have flourished for a reason. Heck, some of the >> people spearheading this drive are even working for Valve right now. >> Don't tell me that this is suddenly a worthless endeavour. >> >> Why anyone would stand behind a decision that actively cuts down the >> available playerbase (for everyone, that includes *you*) is beyond me. >> In the long run this will hurt everyone. It's not just about new >> communities but also about new players. If new players never leave the >> QP, Valve-Only system, how are they going to find *your* server in the >> future I ask you. We already established ourselves. But I still don't >> want this to happen. >> >> Every single time this happens I hear the same arguments. "Why even >> have a server", "Only in it for the money", "Shut down everything". >> Well no. I have invested time and money to build a community. I never >> did it for making bank, only because I care for this game. In fact I >> haven't even taken donations for 3/4 of this communities TF2 >> engagement. That's the way I've done it for CS, for DoD, for >> Battlefield. We are just a dedicated lot of gamers, trying to make an >> enjoyable place for others that like this game. Only to then have even >> our peers happily jump on the hate train. Why? >> >> Why did *you* decide to build your community? I'm genuinely curious. >> Apparently there's absolutely no reason to do that. >> >> >> And just by the way: Neither am I a big dog or a newcomer. I'm in the >> happy middle spot. So no need to go at me for either reason. >> >> On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:57 AM, Gordon Reynolds >> wrote: >> > "We" (the TF2 players) have enough servers as it is. >> > >> > There is no expectation that new servers have any "right" to a full and >> > active playerbase. Why would someone want to open a TF2 server if they >> > have: no players, no community, and in the face of thousands of viable, >> > ready to play in, servers? >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Valentin G. >> wrote: >> > >> >> It's not the servers (that already exist) are the problem. It's that >> >> the already existing playerbase is constantly reduced. >> >> >> >> I want servers to flourish by using what's available, not by cutting >> >> down large server owners. That's backwards logic. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:42 AM, Nerdboy wrote: >> >> > No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should >> >> > scale back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. >> >> > >> >> > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> >> >> So newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers >> with >> >> >> their one server? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dr. McKay >> >> >> www.doctormckay.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Nerdboy >> wrote: >> >> >
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
"If new players never leave the QP, Valve-Only system, how are they going to find *your* server in the future I ask you. " They won't. This doesn't matter. I mean it matters to the server operator, but we are a very tiny fraction of the TF2 audience. If the players are happy hitting QP with the Valve-Only system, then really who am I to tell them they need to play on my server to enjoy the game even more? On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Valentin G. wrote: > Noone has a right to a full server. But a right to at least have a > chance to get something going. It doesn't even have to be fair, I > never said that. Nobody expects that anyone can set up 40 servers and > instantly have them populated 24/7. I don't have any expectations. I > only know that I myself don't enjoy the offering of Valve's servers > myself. Not in TF2 and especially not in CSGO. I've seen the value of > community servers, I've done this for almost a decade now in various > games. That's why I have an agency to keep community servers alive. > AMXX and SM exist and have flourished for a reason. Heck, some of the > people spearheading this drive are even working for Valve right now. > Don't tell me that this is suddenly a worthless endeavour. > > Why anyone would stand behind a decision that actively cuts down the > available playerbase (for everyone, that includes *you*) is beyond me. > In the long run this will hurt everyone. It's not just about new > communities but also about new players. If new players never leave the > QP, Valve-Only system, how are they going to find *your* server in the > future I ask you. We already established ourselves. But I still don't > want this to happen. > > Every single time this happens I hear the same arguments. "Why even > have a server", "Only in it for the money", "Shut down everything". > Well no. I have invested time and money to build a community. I never > did it for making bank, only because I care for this game. In fact I > haven't even taken donations for 3/4 of this communities TF2 > engagement. That's the way I've done it for CS, for DoD, for > Battlefield. We are just a dedicated lot of gamers, trying to make an > enjoyable place for others that like this game. Only to then have even > our peers happily jump on the hate train. Why? > > Why did *you* decide to build your community? I'm genuinely curious. > Apparently there's absolutely no reason to do that. > > > And just by the way: Neither am I a big dog or a newcomer. I'm in the > happy middle spot. So no need to go at me for either reason. > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:57 AM, Gordon Reynolds > wrote: > > "We" (the TF2 players) have enough servers as it is. > > > > There is no expectation that new servers have any "right" to a full and > > active playerbase. Why would someone want to open a TF2 server if they > > have: no players, no community, and in the face of thousands of viable, > > ready to play in, servers? > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Valentin G. > wrote: > > > >> It's not the servers (that already exist) are the problem. It's that > >> the already existing playerbase is constantly reduced. > >> > >> I want servers to flourish by using what's available, not by cutting > >> down large server owners. That's backwards logic. > >> > >> On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:42 AM, Nerdboy wrote: > >> > No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should > >> > scale back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. > >> > > >> > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> >> So newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers > with > >> >> their one server? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Dr. McKay > >> >> www.doctormckay.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> An easy solution to allow newcomers to get more traffic would be to > >> >>> reduce the number of servers you run. That way quickplay traffic is > >> >>> distributed more evenly rather than "who bought the most rack > space?" > >> >>> > >> >>> On 1/24/14, Valentin G. wrote: > >> >>> > Then explain how should people remedy this situation? > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Not every community can retroactively join the master race and > >> >>> > suddenly be around for 6 years and have a great playerbase out of > >> thin > >> >>> > air. Yes, there are servers that currently rely on quickplay. So > what > >> >>> > if 50% is QP traffic. That's still 50% of players that are > returning. > >> >>> > In order to increase that percentage of returning players we still > >> >>> > *need* to have the other 50%. If people don't even come to your > >> server > >> >>> > in the first place (by being in the 50% QP population) there is > not > >> >>> > even the *chance* of them staying around. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > This is the model when you use QP. Use the system, deliver an > >> >>> > experience that continuously moves the split towards a healthy, > >> >>> > returning player base. Of course it would be great if pl
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
I do believe this is the real problem here: we all want our own servers and there just aren't enough players to accommodate this all. Maybe if some of these server operators shut down 25 of their 30 servers they'd see their other servers stay full, longer. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:06 PM, Ilya Larin wrote: > Im a new servers owner, however, im glad to see this donations based giants > dying (Saigns, Skial, etc.) Not being a hater, but they play unfair and > make a wrong impression of the TF2 for new players. There a too many > servers online (~4500) for 4-6 players.(~9-13 players per server), > so the Valve`s desicion is pretty reasonable. Take popcorn, and watch this > for a few monthes, it must clean the servers list up. > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Im a new servers owner, however, im glad to see this donations based giants dying (Saigns, Skial, etc.) Not being a hater, but they play unfair and make a wrong impression of the TF2 for new players. There a too many servers online (~4500) for 4-6 players.(~9-13 players per server), so the Valve`s desicion is pretty reasonable. Take popcorn, and watch this for a few monthes, it must clean the servers list up. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
Nobody's demonizing any other groups. The point is that eventually we'll be left with just a few to pick from, as opposed to the multitude of options available currently (albeit many don't ever see any players due to Quickplay). Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:51 PM, Bottiger wrote: > It isn't fair to mention us in the same phrase. I think you are well aware > of the negative connotations associated with those other groups. > > We only ever expanded when all of our servers were full all day and our > players wanted more. This is not true about any of the groups you lumped us > with. We are also not as old as them. > > As I have said before, this change will negatively affect groups of all age > and sizes. It might not happen as quickly, but eventually the number of old > players quitting will be much larger than the new players coming in. So I > would not present Valve with a false choice of either big bad communities > or small righteous ones. > > This practice of demonizing other groups to get Valve to change their > restrictions needs to stop. I've seen enough of it here and it never works. > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Doctor McKay > wrote: > > > Bottiger: I have nothing against you or Lotus, as you seem to think I do. > > My point was merely that eventually, we'll just be left with the big > > chains. This means there's much less variety in the servers available to > > pick from. > > > > Nerdboy: You're reading too far into it. It's a big enough number to make > > Quickplay significant, but not so big as to ensure continued success. > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > > > > > You didn't say it was an average. You said that 19% of your quickplay > > > connections (of which you receive 47% of your total connections daily) > > > are retained as regular players. That means that daily, 8.93% of your > > > connections become regular players (not including those that saw your > > > network in the server list and just decided to join.) Unless that > > > wasn't what you were saying at all, in which case 19% is a lot more > > > insignificant. > > > > > > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > > > I don't think you understand what an average is. We retain *on > average* > > > > around 19% of Quickplay users. That's in total. In reality, we rely > on > > > > Quickplay just as much as many others do. We're just fortunate enough > > to > > > > have a fairly large buffer of non-Quickplay players. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > > > > > > > >> I have a feeling your 10% daily growth in the past is going to > plenty > > > >> to keep you afloat in these hard times. > > > >> > > > >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > > >> > Except most of Quickplay has just been shut off from us. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Dr. McKay > > > >> > www.doctormckay.com > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Nerdboy > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> >> Ok, but if you have ~50% quickplay traffic, and you're retaining > > ~20% > > > >> >> of it, you should be set for a while. Just don't buy any more > > servers > > > >> >> for a bit. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > > >> >> > I log a bunch of stats about all players who connect to my > > > >> >> > community. > > > >> I > > > >> >> > queried my database. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > This is the plugin to log stats: > > > >> >> > https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=230832 > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > Dr. McKay > > > >> >> > www.doctormckay.com > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Nerdboy > > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >> Can you cite your source? > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > > >> >> >> > In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come > > > back. > > > >> >> >> > That's > > > >> >> >> > not an insignificant number. > > > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > Dr. McKay > > > >> >> >> > www.doctormckay.com > > > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > > > >> >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> >> If your players were only in your servers because of > > quickplay, > > > >> >> >> >> they > > > >> >> >> >> probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity > > > that > > > >> is > > > >> >> >> >> the > > > >> >> >> >> collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, > etc), > > > >> >> >> >> you > > > >> >> were > > > >> >> >> >> just > > > >> >> >> >> some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to > > > >> "playing > > > >> >> >> TF2". > > > >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, > never > > > >> >> >> >> add > > > >> >> >> >> you > >
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
It isn't fair to mention us in the same phrase. I think you are well aware of the negative connotations associated with those other groups. We only ever expanded when all of our servers were full all day and our players wanted more. This is not true about any of the groups you lumped us with. We are also not as old as them. As I have said before, this change will negatively affect groups of all age and sizes. It might not happen as quickly, but eventually the number of old players quitting will be much larger than the new players coming in. So I would not present Valve with a false choice of either big bad communities or small righteous ones. This practice of demonizing other groups to get Valve to change their restrictions needs to stop. I've seen enough of it here and it never works. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Doctor McKay wrote: > Bottiger: I have nothing against you or Lotus, as you seem to think I do. > My point was merely that eventually, we'll just be left with the big > chains. This means there's much less variety in the servers available to > pick from. > > Nerdboy: You're reading too far into it. It's a big enough number to make > Quickplay significant, but not so big as to ensure continued success. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > > > You didn't say it was an average. You said that 19% of your quickplay > > connections (of which you receive 47% of your total connections daily) > > are retained as regular players. That means that daily, 8.93% of your > > connections become regular players (not including those that saw your > > network in the server list and just decided to join.) Unless that > > wasn't what you were saying at all, in which case 19% is a lot more > > insignificant. > > > > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > > I don't think you understand what an average is. We retain *on average* > > > around 19% of Quickplay users. That's in total. In reality, we rely on > > > Quickplay just as much as many others do. We're just fortunate enough > to > > > have a fairly large buffer of non-Quickplay players. > > > > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > > > > > >> I have a feeling your 10% daily growth in the past is going to plenty > > >> to keep you afloat in these hard times. > > >> > > >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > >> > Except most of Quickplay has just been shut off from us. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Dr. McKay > > >> > www.doctormckay.com > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Nerdboy > wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> Ok, but if you have ~50% quickplay traffic, and you're retaining > ~20% > > >> >> of it, you should be set for a while. Just don't buy any more > servers > > >> >> for a bit. > > >> >> > > >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > >> >> > I log a bunch of stats about all players who connect to my > > >> >> > community. > > >> I > > >> >> > queried my database. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > This is the plugin to log stats: > > >> >> > https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=230832 > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Dr. McKay > > >> >> > www.doctormckay.com > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Nerdboy > > wrote: > > >> >> > > > >> >> >> Can you cite your source? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > >> >> >> > In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come > > back. > > >> >> >> > That's > > >> >> >> > not an insignificant number. > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Dr. McKay > > >> >> >> > www.doctormckay.com > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > > >> >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> If your players were only in your servers because of > quickplay, > > >> >> >> >> they > > >> >> >> >> probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity > > that > > >> is > > >> >> >> >> the > > >> >> >> >> collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, etc), > > >> >> >> >> you > > >> >> were > > >> >> >> >> just > > >> >> >> >> some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to > > >> "playing > > >> >> >> TF2". > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, never > > >> >> >> >> add > > >> >> >> >> you > > >> >> >> >> to > > >> >> >> >> favorites, and may never show back up again. You could see > this > > >> >> >> >> as > > >> >> >> "Valve > > >> >> >> >> stealing your quickplay traffic" or you could see this as > > "Valve > > >> >> >> rounding > > >> >> >> >> up the people who mash PLAYNOW and have no interest in > > dedicated > > >> >> >> servers, > > >> >> >> >> or server communities". > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> It's a changing demographic - people just want to play > > >> >> >> >> videogames, > > >> >> not > > >> >> >> >> really sign up for a whole 'favorite s
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Maybe you should consider that the game isn't being made for the server operator, but for the player. On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > My community's rules are intended to provide the best experience possible > to the players (which is the best way we can grow). But I guess you > wouldn't understand that. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > >> Maybe you should consider that the game isn't being made for the >> server operator, but for the player. You'd have caught that point if >> you weren't dodging it by defending your server's rules. >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> >> No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should >> >> scale >> > back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. >> > >> > I'm concerned about the possibility of future growth of TF2. The fact >> that >> > Valve is actively trying to cripple community servers is not my fault. >> I'm >> > not going to shut down services due to Valve's mistakes. >> > >> >> This move might go "against server operators", but at the same time it >> >> simplifies >> > life for the hundreds of thousands of people who DON'T run a >> > server, and would rather push one button and be playing a video game, >> > without worrying about whatever server they'll be redirected to, or >> > some >> > admin that will ban you for "Insubordination", or for wearing the wrong >> > clan tag (seriously go read the rules for some of these servers: >> > https://firepoweredgaming.com/forums/page/rules and try not to laugh). >> > >> > Congratulations on attacking a straw man. I don't need to defend myself >> > against the likes of you, but I'll do it anyway just to humor you. You >> come >> > on my servers, you break a rule, an admin tells you to stop. You refuse >> to >> > comply. You get banned. >> > >> > You come on one of my servers and wear my community's tag without going >> > through the membership process. The server removes the tag from your >> > name >> > and informs you why. You decide to replace the brackets with >> > parenthesis >> to >> > get around the restriction. You get renamed by an admin. You continue >> > to >> do >> > it, you get banned. >> > >> > But please feel free to continue to berate me if you feel that it helps >> > your argument, just as you're accusing others of doing. >> > >> > >> > Dr. McKay >> > www.doctormckay.com >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Yes the newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of >> >> servers. >> >> >> >> No it's not "fair", but who was making the assumption that running a >> Team >> >> Fortress 2 server must be some fair utopia where we all split the >> >> amount >> >> of >> >> players evenly among ourselves? >> > ___ >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> > please visit: >> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
My community's rules are intended to provide the best experience possible to the players (which is the best way we can grow). But I guess you wouldn't understand that. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > Maybe you should consider that the game isn't being made for the > server operator, but for the player. You'd have caught that point if > you weren't dodging it by defending your server's rules. > > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should scale > > back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. > > > > I'm concerned about the possibility of future growth of TF2. The fact > that > > Valve is actively trying to cripple community servers is not my fault. > I'm > > not going to shut down services due to Valve's mistakes. > > > >> This move might go "against server operators", but at the same time it > >> simplifies > > life for the hundreds of thousands of people who DON'T run a > > server, and would rather push one button and be playing a video game, > > without worrying about whatever server they'll be redirected to, or some > > admin that will ban you for "Insubordination", or for wearing the wrong > > clan tag (seriously go read the rules for some of these servers: > > https://firepoweredgaming.com/forums/page/rules and try not to laugh). > > > > Congratulations on attacking a straw man. I don't need to defend myself > > against the likes of you, but I'll do it anyway just to humor you. You > come > > on my servers, you break a rule, an admin tells you to stop. You refuse > to > > comply. You get banned. > > > > You come on one of my servers and wear my community's tag without going > > through the membership process. The server removes the tag from your name > > and informs you why. You decide to replace the brackets with parenthesis > to > > get around the restriction. You get renamed by an admin. You continue to > do > > it, you get banned. > > > > But please feel free to continue to berate me if you feel that it helps > > your argument, just as you're accusing others of doing. > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Yes the newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers. > >> > >> No it's not "fair", but who was making the assumption that running a > Team > >> Fortress 2 server must be some fair utopia where we all split the amount > >> of > >> players evenly among ourselves? > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
When did I ever pretend to be small or a newcomer? My servers run as vanilla as possible. If attempting to prevent team stacking is invasive, then I guess I'm guilty as charged. Of course I'm going to be concerned about my own growth. I play TF2 as well and I enjoy having a bunch of well-moderated, popular servers to choose from. At the same time, I'm concerned about the growth of the community as a whole. That includes servers that aren't mine. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > McKay, check yourself - you're running 20 servers. Don't pretend to be > a small community or any sort of newcomer when many communities have > to compete while having only 1 or 2 servers. You're already entering > the domain of big server chains, so don't try to play to purity or > variety here when your community relies on a number of 24/7 map > servers. > > And learn some statistics before you try to point out the > "significance" of your network's growth, or even try to define what an > average is. You're a lot better off than a lot of people and really in > no place to complain about any of the changes Valve made. If you want > to steer clear of big chains with invasive plugins, how about you shut > down some of your servers, mkay? > > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > Bottiger: I have nothing against you or Lotus, as you seem to think I do. > > My point was merely that eventually, we'll just be left with the big > > chains. This means there's much less variety in the servers available to > > pick from. > > > > Nerdboy: You're reading too far into it. It's a big enough number to make > > Quickplay significant, but not so big as to ensure continued success. > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > > > >> You didn't say it was an average. You said that 19% of your quickplay > >> connections (of which you receive 47% of your total connections daily) > >> are retained as regular players. That means that daily, 8.93% of your > >> connections become regular players (not including those that saw your > >> network in the server list and just decided to join.) Unless that > >> wasn't what you were saying at all, in which case 19% is a lot more > >> insignificant. > >> > >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> > I don't think you understand what an average is. We retain *on > average* > >> > around 19% of Quickplay users. That's in total. In reality, we rely on > >> > Quickplay just as much as many others do. We're just fortunate enough > >> > to > >> > have a fairly large buffer of non-Quickplay players. > >> > > >> > > >> > Dr. McKay > >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > >> > > >> >> I have a feeling your 10% daily growth in the past is going to plenty > >> >> to keep you afloat in these hard times. > >> >> > >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> >> > Except most of Quickplay has just been shut off from us. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Dr. McKay > >> >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Nerdboy > wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Ok, but if you have ~50% quickplay traffic, and you're retaining > >> >> >> ~20% > >> >> >> of it, you should be set for a while. Just don't buy any more > >> >> >> servers > >> >> >> for a bit. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> >> >> > I log a bunch of stats about all players who connect to my > >> >> >> > community. > >> >> I > >> >> >> > queried my database. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > This is the plugin to log stats: > >> >> >> > https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=230832 > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Dr. McKay > >> >> >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Nerdboy > >> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> Can you cite your source? > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> >> >> >> > In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come > >> back. > >> >> >> >> > That's > >> >> >> >> > not an insignificant number. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Dr. McKay > >> >> >> >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >> >> >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> If your players were only in your servers because of > >> >> >> >> >> quickplay, > >> >> >> >> >> they > >> >> >> >> >> probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity > >> that > >> >> is > >> >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> >> collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, > etc), > >> >> >> >> >> you > >> >> >> were > >> >> >> >> >> just > >> >> >> >> >> some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to > >> >> "playing > >> >> >> >> TF2". > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect,
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Maybe you should consider that the game isn't being made for the server operator, but for the player. You'd have caught that point if you weren't dodging it by defending your server's rules. On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should scale > back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. > > I'm concerned about the possibility of future growth of TF2. The fact that > Valve is actively trying to cripple community servers is not my fault. I'm > not going to shut down services due to Valve's mistakes. > >> This move might go "against server operators", but at the same time it >> simplifies > life for the hundreds of thousands of people who DON'T run a > server, and would rather push one button and be playing a video game, > without worrying about whatever server they'll be redirected to, or some > admin that will ban you for "Insubordination", or for wearing the wrong > clan tag (seriously go read the rules for some of these servers: > https://firepoweredgaming.com/forums/page/rules and try not to laugh). > > Congratulations on attacking a straw man. I don't need to defend myself > against the likes of you, but I'll do it anyway just to humor you. You come > on my servers, you break a rule, an admin tells you to stop. You refuse to > comply. You get banned. > > You come on one of my servers and wear my community's tag without going > through the membership process. The server removes the tag from your name > and informs you why. You decide to replace the brackets with parenthesis to > get around the restriction. You get renamed by an admin. You continue to do > it, you get banned. > > But please feel free to continue to berate me if you feel that it helps > your argument, just as you're accusing others of doing. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Yes the newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers. >> >> No it's not "fair", but who was making the assumption that running a Team >> Fortress 2 server must be some fair utopia where we all split the amount >> of >> players evenly among ourselves? > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
McKay, check yourself - you're running 20 servers. Don't pretend to be a small community or any sort of newcomer when many communities have to compete while having only 1 or 2 servers. You're already entering the domain of big server chains, so don't try to play to purity or variety here when your community relies on a number of 24/7 map servers. And learn some statistics before you try to point out the "significance" of your network's growth, or even try to define what an average is. You're a lot better off than a lot of people and really in no place to complain about any of the changes Valve made. If you want to steer clear of big chains with invasive plugins, how about you shut down some of your servers, mkay? On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > Bottiger: I have nothing against you or Lotus, as you seem to think I do. > My point was merely that eventually, we'll just be left with the big > chains. This means there's much less variety in the servers available to > pick from. > > Nerdboy: You're reading too far into it. It's a big enough number to make > Quickplay significant, but not so big as to ensure continued success. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > >> You didn't say it was an average. You said that 19% of your quickplay >> connections (of which you receive 47% of your total connections daily) >> are retained as regular players. That means that daily, 8.93% of your >> connections become regular players (not including those that saw your >> network in the server list and just decided to join.) Unless that >> wasn't what you were saying at all, in which case 19% is a lot more >> insignificant. >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> > I don't think you understand what an average is. We retain *on average* >> > around 19% of Quickplay users. That's in total. In reality, we rely on >> > Quickplay just as much as many others do. We're just fortunate enough >> > to >> > have a fairly large buffer of non-Quickplay players. >> > >> > >> > Dr. McKay >> > www.doctormckay.com >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Nerdboy wrote: >> > >> >> I have a feeling your 10% daily growth in the past is going to plenty >> >> to keep you afloat in these hard times. >> >> >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> >> > Except most of Quickplay has just been shut off from us. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Dr. McKay >> >> > www.doctormckay.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Nerdboy wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Ok, but if you have ~50% quickplay traffic, and you're retaining >> >> >> ~20% >> >> >> of it, you should be set for a while. Just don't buy any more >> >> >> servers >> >> >> for a bit. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> >> >> > I log a bunch of stats about all players who connect to my >> >> >> > community. >> >> I >> >> >> > queried my database. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > This is the plugin to log stats: >> >> >> > https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=230832 >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Dr. McKay >> >> >> > www.doctormckay.com >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Nerdboy >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Can you cite your source? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> >> >> >> > In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come >> back. >> >> >> >> > That's >> >> >> >> > not an insignificant number. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Dr. McKay >> >> >> >> > www.doctormckay.com >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >> >> >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> If your players were only in your servers because of >> >> >> >> >> quickplay, >> >> >> >> >> they >> >> >> >> >> probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity >> that >> >> is >> >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> >> collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, etc), >> >> >> >> >> you >> >> >> were >> >> >> >> >> just >> >> >> >> >> some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to >> >> "playing >> >> >> >> TF2". >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, never >> >> >> >> >> add >> >> >> >> >> you >> >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> >> >> favorites, and may never show back up again. You could see >> >> >> >> >> this >> >> >> >> >> as >> >> >> >> "Valve >> >> >> >> >> stealing your quickplay traffic" or you could see this as >> "Valve >> >> >> >> rounding >> >> >> >> >> up the people who mash PLAYNOW and have no interest in >> dedicated >> >> >> >> servers, >> >> >> >> >> or server communities". >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> It's a changing demographic - people just want to play >> >> >> >> >> videogames, >> >> >> not >> >> >> >> >> really sign up for a whole 'favorite server loyalty program'. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> And who cares if our servers "die out"? What are we out? Ego? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> O
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
> No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should scale back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. I'm concerned about the possibility of future growth of TF2. The fact that Valve is actively trying to cripple community servers is not my fault. I'm not going to shut down services due to Valve's mistakes. > This move might go "against server operators", but at the same time it > simplifies life for the hundreds of thousands of people who DON'T run a server, and would rather push one button and be playing a video game, without worrying about whatever server they'll be redirected to, or some admin that will ban you for "Insubordination", or for wearing the wrong clan tag (seriously go read the rules for some of these servers: https://firepoweredgaming.com/forums/page/rules and try not to laugh). Congratulations on attacking a straw man. I don't need to defend myself against the likes of you, but I'll do it anyway just to humor you. You come on my servers, you break a rule, an admin tells you to stop. You refuse to comply. You get banned. You come on one of my servers and wear my community's tag without going through the membership process. The server removes the tag from your name and informs you why. You decide to replace the brackets with parenthesis to get around the restriction. You get renamed by an admin. You continue to do it, you get banned. But please feel free to continue to berate me if you feel that it helps your argument, just as you're accusing others of doing. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Gordon Reynolds < thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > Yes the newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers. > > No it's not "fair", but who was making the assumption that running a Team > Fortress 2 server must be some fair utopia where we all split the amount of > players evenly among ourselves? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
On 24/01/2014 21:30, Rick Dunn wrote: Yeah, it was a 2-paragraph distillation of one person's view of the past 4-5 years of this game in his life. I like the bit where you wrote TF2 and Valve stole it the best. Who do you have in mind to play you? Tom Cruise? -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
Bottiger: I have nothing against you or Lotus, as you seem to think I do. My point was merely that eventually, we'll just be left with the big chains. This means there's much less variety in the servers available to pick from. Nerdboy: You're reading too far into it. It's a big enough number to make Quickplay significant, but not so big as to ensure continued success. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > You didn't say it was an average. You said that 19% of your quickplay > connections (of which you receive 47% of your total connections daily) > are retained as regular players. That means that daily, 8.93% of your > connections become regular players (not including those that saw your > network in the server list and just decided to join.) Unless that > wasn't what you were saying at all, in which case 19% is a lot more > insignificant. > > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > I don't think you understand what an average is. We retain *on average* > > around 19% of Quickplay users. That's in total. In reality, we rely on > > Quickplay just as much as many others do. We're just fortunate enough to > > have a fairly large buffer of non-Quickplay players. > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > > > >> I have a feeling your 10% daily growth in the past is going to plenty > >> to keep you afloat in these hard times. > >> > >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> > Except most of Quickplay has just been shut off from us. > >> > > >> > > >> > Dr. McKay > >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > >> > > >> >> Ok, but if you have ~50% quickplay traffic, and you're retaining ~20% > >> >> of it, you should be set for a while. Just don't buy any more servers > >> >> for a bit. > >> >> > >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> >> > I log a bunch of stats about all players who connect to my > >> >> > community. > >> I > >> >> > queried my database. > >> >> > > >> >> > This is the plugin to log stats: > >> >> > https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=230832 > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Dr. McKay > >> >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Nerdboy > wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Can you cite your source? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> >> >> > In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come > back. > >> >> >> > That's > >> >> >> > not an insignificant number. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Dr. McKay > >> >> >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >> >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> If your players were only in your servers because of quickplay, > >> >> >> >> they > >> >> >> >> probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity > that > >> is > >> >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, etc), > >> >> >> >> you > >> >> were > >> >> >> >> just > >> >> >> >> some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to > >> "playing > >> >> >> TF2". > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, never > >> >> >> >> add > >> >> >> >> you > >> >> >> >> to > >> >> >> >> favorites, and may never show back up again. You could see this > >> >> >> >> as > >> >> >> "Valve > >> >> >> >> stealing your quickplay traffic" or you could see this as > "Valve > >> >> >> rounding > >> >> >> >> up the people who mash PLAYNOW and have no interest in > dedicated > >> >> >> servers, > >> >> >> >> or server communities". > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> It's a changing demographic - people just want to play > >> >> >> >> videogames, > >> >> not > >> >> >> >> really sign up for a whole 'favorite server loyalty program'. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> And who cares if our servers "die out"? What are we out? Ego? > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Doctor McKay > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > For lack of a better word, this is the last stand of > community > >> >> >> servers. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > The smaller communities that depend on Quickplay to gain > >> >> >> >> > popularity > >> >> >> >> > will > >> >> >> >> > die out. We'll be left with nothing but the > >> >> >> >> > already-large-and-established > >> >> >> >> > server chains, like Lotus, Skial, Saigns, and NighTeam. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Dr. McKay > >> >> >> >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >> >> >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. > >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> > > I've yet to see a single sane suggestion on how they police > >> bad
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Noone has a right to a full server. But a right to at least have a chance to get something going. It doesn't even have to be fair, I never said that. Nobody expects that anyone can set up 40 servers and instantly have them populated 24/7. I don't have any expectations. I only know that I myself don't enjoy the offering of Valve's servers myself. Not in TF2 and especially not in CSGO. I've seen the value of community servers, I've done this for almost a decade now in various games. That's why I have an agency to keep community servers alive. AMXX and SM exist and have flourished for a reason. Heck, some of the people spearheading this drive are even working for Valve right now. Don't tell me that this is suddenly a worthless endeavour. Why anyone would stand behind a decision that actively cuts down the available playerbase (for everyone, that includes *you*) is beyond me. In the long run this will hurt everyone. It's not just about new communities but also about new players. If new players never leave the QP, Valve-Only system, how are they going to find *your* server in the future I ask you. We already established ourselves. But I still don't want this to happen. Every single time this happens I hear the same arguments. "Why even have a server", "Only in it for the money", "Shut down everything". Well no. I have invested time and money to build a community. I never did it for making bank, only because I care for this game. In fact I haven't even taken donations for 3/4 of this communities TF2 engagement. That's the way I've done it for CS, for DoD, for Battlefield. We are just a dedicated lot of gamers, trying to make an enjoyable place for others that like this game. Only to then have even our peers happily jump on the hate train. Why? Why did *you* decide to build your community? I'm genuinely curious. Apparently there's absolutely no reason to do that. And just by the way: Neither am I a big dog or a newcomer. I'm in the happy middle spot. So no need to go at me for either reason. On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:57 AM, Gordon Reynolds wrote: > "We" (the TF2 players) have enough servers as it is. > > There is no expectation that new servers have any "right" to a full and > active playerbase. Why would someone want to open a TF2 server if they > have: no players, no community, and in the face of thousands of viable, > ready to play in, servers? > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Valentin G. wrote: > >> It's not the servers (that already exist) are the problem. It's that >> the already existing playerbase is constantly reduced. >> >> I want servers to flourish by using what's available, not by cutting >> down large server owners. That's backwards logic. >> >> On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:42 AM, Nerdboy wrote: >> > No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should >> > scale back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. >> > >> > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> >> So newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers with >> >> their one server? >> >> >> >> >> >> Dr. McKay >> >> www.doctormckay.com >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Nerdboy wrote: >> >> >> >>> An easy solution to allow newcomers to get more traffic would be to >> >>> reduce the number of servers you run. That way quickplay traffic is >> >>> distributed more evenly rather than "who bought the most rack space?" >> >>> >> >>> On 1/24/14, Valentin G. wrote: >> >>> > Then explain how should people remedy this situation? >> >>> > >> >>> > Not every community can retroactively join the master race and >> >>> > suddenly be around for 6 years and have a great playerbase out of >> thin >> >>> > air. Yes, there are servers that currently rely on quickplay. So what >> >>> > if 50% is QP traffic. That's still 50% of players that are returning. >> >>> > In order to increase that percentage of returning players we still >> >>> > *need* to have the other 50%. If people don't even come to your >> server >> >>> > in the first place (by being in the 50% QP population) there is not >> >>> > even the *chance* of them staying around. >> >>> > >> >>> > This is the model when you use QP. Use the system, deliver an >> >>> > experience that continuously moves the split towards a healthy, >> >>> > returning player base. Of course it would be great if players still >> >>> > went around the server browser and naturally found out about new >> >>> > servers and stayed there. Since that doesn't happen anymore, newer >> >>> > communities have to rely on quickplay. That's simply how it works. >> >>> > It's really great for all the people here that have a long history in >> >>> > their community and a stable and returning playerbase already. Not >> >>> > everyone can enjoy that, and you are trying to prevent them from even >> >>> > having the ability to achieve that. >> >>> > >> >>> > I really hope one day people get that into their thick heads. There >> >>> > are start-ups that haven't been around sinc
Re: [hlds_linux] Latest TF2 update, Valve-only server join option, Quick-Play, etc.
Pay a small army of players Steam bucks to review the reports of nefarious servers. Quite seriously, there's a small army of "players" who find it profitable to mine metal, farm Mann Up tours etc. Save them the time -- just give them what they want, and instead of wasting their time trading/farming they can help us weed out the unwanted QP servers. Win-win. Alternatively, there are many folks in less developed countries who would happily work for a pittance of the typical Seattle salary. Hire them to fix the plethora of abuse issues that riddle TF2. I wouldn't have setup my servers if Valve actually looked after theirs. Seriously. I'm a player first. I don't *want* to run my servers but I started them because the alternative venues were horrible. On 25/01/2014 11:02 AM, Weasels Lair wrote: Regarding the latest update from TF2 and the renewed discussion about things like Quick-Play (now being largely re-directed to Valve-operated servers), how this effects game "Communities", etc. I do not think we are going to talk Valve out of any of this. I think all we can hope to do is get them to acknowledge the "community" contributions and maybe make some changes that will build on that. I know if often seems like they are going in the other direction. However, I am hopeful that some simple changes can help-out. "Dr. McKay" has certainly made some excellent suggestions regarding the multi-player options, etc. What I would like to suggest, is that Valve build-upon their existing "Steam Community Groups" feature. Some things they could do there might include: 1) Add a feature to dedicated servers (HLDS *and* SRCDS) that allows a server operator to associated a their server with a particular steam community group. 2) Add a feature to the Steam Community Groups, that allows their officers to then add those servers into the group profile in some very-integrated manner. Not just a "link" to join a server, but maybe something larger. Maybe more like a game-server banner, listing current number of players, player slots, etc. Of course, there are 3rd party sites that do some that now. But, I think if Valve did it right in the Steam Community Groups, they could fully-integrate things nicer/cleaner. 3) Ensure such features work not just with Valve titles, but any mod hosted on HLDS and SRCDS (all it's different SDK flavors). Of course, this would mean that game "communities" would really have to buy into the "Steam Community" thing more. Many do prefer to run their own websites, and of course many also game non-Valve/non-Steam titles. So, Steam Community integration maybe isn't as attractive to them. Anyway, those are some of my thoughts - IMH(f)O as usual. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Latest TF2 update, Valve-only server join option, Quick-Play, etc.
I would -love- the ability to link my steam group with my server. I know they did this for L4D and there were issues with this, but it would be real beneficial to the community servers, especially as quickplay is being more segregated off. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Weasels Lair wrote: > Regarding the latest update from TF2 and the renewed discussion about > things like Quick-Play (now being largely re-directed to > Valve-operated servers), how this effects game "Communities", etc. > > I do not think we are going to talk Valve out of any of this. I think > all we can hope to do is get them to acknowledge the "community" > contributions and maybe make some changes that will build on that. I > know if often seems like they are going in the other direction. > However, I am hopeful that some simple changes can help-out. "Dr. > McKay" has certainly made some excellent suggestions regarding the > multi-player options, etc. > > What I would like to suggest, is that Valve build-upon their existing > "Steam Community Groups" feature. Some things they could do there > might include: > > 1) Add a feature to dedicated servers (HLDS *and* SRCDS) that allows a > server operator to associated a their server with a particular steam > community group. > 2) Add a feature to the Steam Community Groups, that allows their > officers to then add those servers into the group profile in some > very-integrated manner. Not just a "link" to join a server, but maybe > something larger. Maybe more like a game-server banner, listing > current number of players, player slots, etc. Of course, there are > 3rd party sites that do some that now. But, I think if Valve did it > right in the Steam Community Groups, they could fully-integrate things > nicer/cleaner. > 3) Ensure such features work not just with Valve titles, but any mod > hosted on HLDS and SRCDS (all it's different SDK flavors). > > Of course, this would mean that game "communities" would really have > to buy into the "Steam Community" thing more. Many do prefer to run > their own websites, and of course many also game non-Valve/non-Steam > titles. So, Steam Community integration maybe isn't as attractive to > them. > > Anyway, those are some of my thoughts - IMH(f)O as usual. > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
You didn't say it was an average. You said that 19% of your quickplay connections (of which you receive 47% of your total connections daily) are retained as regular players. That means that daily, 8.93% of your connections become regular players (not including those that saw your network in the server list and just decided to join.) Unless that wasn't what you were saying at all, in which case 19% is a lot more insignificant. On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > I don't think you understand what an average is. We retain *on average* > around 19% of Quickplay users. That's in total. In reality, we rely on > Quickplay just as much as many others do. We're just fortunate enough to > have a fairly large buffer of non-Quickplay players. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > >> I have a feeling your 10% daily growth in the past is going to plenty >> to keep you afloat in these hard times. >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> > Except most of Quickplay has just been shut off from us. >> > >> > >> > Dr. McKay >> > www.doctormckay.com >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Nerdboy wrote: >> > >> >> Ok, but if you have ~50% quickplay traffic, and you're retaining ~20% >> >> of it, you should be set for a while. Just don't buy any more servers >> >> for a bit. >> >> >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> >> > I log a bunch of stats about all players who connect to my >> >> > community. >> I >> >> > queried my database. >> >> > >> >> > This is the plugin to log stats: >> >> > https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=230832 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Dr. McKay >> >> > www.doctormckay.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Nerdboy wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Can you cite your source? >> >> >> >> >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> >> >> > In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come back. >> >> >> > That's >> >> >> > not an insignificant number. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Dr. McKay >> >> >> > www.doctormckay.com >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >> >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> If your players were only in your servers because of quickplay, >> >> >> >> they >> >> >> >> probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity that >> is >> >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, etc), >> >> >> >> you >> >> were >> >> >> >> just >> >> >> >> some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to >> "playing >> >> >> TF2". >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, never >> >> >> >> add >> >> >> >> you >> >> >> >> to >> >> >> >> favorites, and may never show back up again. You could see this >> >> >> >> as >> >> >> "Valve >> >> >> >> stealing your quickplay traffic" or you could see this as "Valve >> >> >> rounding >> >> >> >> up the people who mash PLAYNOW and have no interest in dedicated >> >> >> servers, >> >> >> >> or server communities". >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> It's a changing demographic - people just want to play >> >> >> >> videogames, >> >> not >> >> >> >> really sign up for a whole 'favorite server loyalty program'. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> And who cares if our servers "die out"? What are we out? Ego? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Doctor McKay >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > For lack of a better word, this is the last stand of community >> >> >> servers. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > The smaller communities that depend on Quickplay to gain >> >> >> >> > popularity >> >> >> >> > will >> >> >> >> > die out. We'll be left with nothing but the >> >> >> >> > already-large-and-established >> >> >> >> > server chains, like Lotus, Skial, Saigns, and NighTeam. >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Dr. McKay >> >> >> >> > www.doctormckay.com >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >> >> >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > > I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > I've yet to see a single sane suggestion on how they police >> bad >> >> >> >> > > servers >> >> >> >> > > other than "have people report them", which sounds like a >> >> >> >> > > bad >> >> idea >> >> >> >> > > for >> >> >> >> > many >> >> >> >> > > hopefully obvious reasons. >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > These are just video game servers; you aren't making money >> >> >> >> > > off >> >> >> >> > > them, >> >> >> >> > > if >> >> >> >> > > they sit empty you aren't losing money off them either [more >> >> >> >> > > than >> >> >> the >> >> >> >> > cost >> >> >> >> > > of running the server, which you're already doing]. And if >> >> >> >> > > you >> >> are >> >> >> >> > (making >> >> >> >> > > or losing money), then I would say Valve wants to put those >> >> >> >> > > kind >> >> >>
[hlds_linux] Latest TF2 update, Valve-only server join option, Quick-Play, etc.
Regarding the latest update from TF2 and the renewed discussion about things like Quick-Play (now being largely re-directed to Valve-operated servers), how this effects game "Communities", etc. I do not think we are going to talk Valve out of any of this. I think all we can hope to do is get them to acknowledge the "community" contributions and maybe make some changes that will build on that. I know if often seems like they are going in the other direction. However, I am hopeful that some simple changes can help-out. "Dr. McKay" has certainly made some excellent suggestions regarding the multi-player options, etc. What I would like to suggest, is that Valve build-upon their existing "Steam Community Groups" feature. Some things they could do there might include: 1) Add a feature to dedicated servers (HLDS *and* SRCDS) that allows a server operator to associated a their server with a particular steam community group. 2) Add a feature to the Steam Community Groups, that allows their officers to then add those servers into the group profile in some very-integrated manner. Not just a "link" to join a server, but maybe something larger. Maybe more like a game-server banner, listing current number of players, player slots, etc. Of course, there are 3rd party sites that do some that now. But, I think if Valve did it right in the Steam Community Groups, they could fully-integrate things nicer/cleaner. 3) Ensure such features work not just with Valve titles, but any mod hosted on HLDS and SRCDS (all it's different SDK flavors). Of course, this would mean that game "communities" would really have to buy into the "Steam Community" thing more. Many do prefer to run their own websites, and of course many also game non-Valve/non-Steam titles. So, Steam Community integration maybe isn't as attractive to them. Anyway, those are some of my thoughts - IMH(f)O as usual. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
McKay, we don't appreciate being categorized with those other groups and it doesn't help the case to restore quickplay. Your own community already has enough servers to be considered a "server chain" yet you do not even have the DDoS protection or custom game modes that we do. We do not have a large amount of servers to be greedy, rather the economies of scale makes it possible to provide higher quality servers. If you want to restore quickplay please remain on topic, but don't use us as a scapegoat. For those of you arguing if such a high percentage of people use quickplay, then community servers weren't providing any value at all? If this was true you would expect Valve servers to be as equally full as the top community servers. TF2 server ranking websites would be filled with Valve servers like CS:GO but they were not. Cutting off new players to all community servers will kill even established communities. Even custom modes will be less populated because of Valve's efforts to make it more difficult for new people to realize there are community servers. If Valve wants to provide the best experience to players they should let community servers compete on equal footing with official servers. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
"We" (the TF2 players) have enough servers as it is. There is no expectation that new servers have any "right" to a full and active playerbase. Why would someone want to open a TF2 server if they have: no players, no community, and in the face of thousands of viable, ready to play in, servers? On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Valentin G. wrote: > It's not the servers (that already exist) are the problem. It's that > the already existing playerbase is constantly reduced. > > I want servers to flourish by using what's available, not by cutting > down large server owners. That's backwards logic. > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:42 AM, Nerdboy wrote: > > No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should > > scale back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. > > > > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> So newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers with > >> their one server? > >> > >> > >> Dr. McKay > >> www.doctormckay.com > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > >> > >>> An easy solution to allow newcomers to get more traffic would be to > >>> reduce the number of servers you run. That way quickplay traffic is > >>> distributed more evenly rather than "who bought the most rack space?" > >>> > >>> On 1/24/14, Valentin G. wrote: > >>> > Then explain how should people remedy this situation? > >>> > > >>> > Not every community can retroactively join the master race and > >>> > suddenly be around for 6 years and have a great playerbase out of > thin > >>> > air. Yes, there are servers that currently rely on quickplay. So what > >>> > if 50% is QP traffic. That's still 50% of players that are returning. > >>> > In order to increase that percentage of returning players we still > >>> > *need* to have the other 50%. If people don't even come to your > server > >>> > in the first place (by being in the 50% QP population) there is not > >>> > even the *chance* of them staying around. > >>> > > >>> > This is the model when you use QP. Use the system, deliver an > >>> > experience that continuously moves the split towards a healthy, > >>> > returning player base. Of course it would be great if players still > >>> > went around the server browser and naturally found out about new > >>> > servers and stayed there. Since that doesn't happen anymore, newer > >>> > communities have to rely on quickplay. That's simply how it works. > >>> > It's really great for all the people here that have a long history in > >>> > their community and a stable and returning playerbase already. Not > >>> > everyone can enjoy that, and you are trying to prevent them from even > >>> > having the ability to achieve that. > >>> > > >>> > I really hope one day people get that into their thick heads. There > >>> > are start-ups that haven't been around since the TF2 beta. They *can > >>> > not* have as healthy of a playerbase as you already have. Don't talk > >>> > them down because of that, and even applaud Valve when every chance > of > >>> > building up their community is ripped from their hands. > >>> > > >>> > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Gordon Reynolds > >>> > wrote: > >>> >> Maybe there is a point to take from this. > >>> >> > >>> >> Maybe the kind of people who played TF2 pre-F2P era, aren't the same > >>> >> people > >>> >> who want to play TF2 now? > >>> >> > >>> >> Demographics change, if you think the same type of people pick up > TF2 > >>> >> today > >>> >> as the ones who paid money to pick it up pre-F2P, you might be in > for > >>> >> a > >>> >> bit > >>> >> of a shock. Or not, look at your numbers, 50% of your population is > >>> >> just > >>> >> there because that's where they ended up, they didn't choose to be > on > >>> >> your > >>> >> server. > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Doctor McKay < > mc...@doctormckay.com> > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >>> Find me a vanilla server that remains populated without the help of > >>> >>> Quickplay. They don't exist. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Dr. McKay > >>> >>> www.doctormckay.com > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >>> >>> thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get 47% > >>> >>> > quickplay > >>> >>> > traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server that > >>> >>> > might > >>> >>> > be > >>> >>> > twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled regulars > >>> >>> > from > >>> >>> > quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during peak), > >>> >>> > because > >>> >>> > of all your regulars? > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server they > >>> >>> > are > >>> >>> on-, > >>> >>> > and will never add your server to favorites as is? > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay > >>> >>> > >>> > > >>> >>> > wrote: > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > The cvar
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
I don't think you understand what an average is. We retain *on average* around 19% of Quickplay users. That's in total. In reality, we rely on Quickplay just as much as many others do. We're just fortunate enough to have a fairly large buffer of non-Quickplay players. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > I have a feeling your 10% daily growth in the past is going to plenty > to keep you afloat in these hard times. > > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > Except most of Quickplay has just been shut off from us. > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > > > >> Ok, but if you have ~50% quickplay traffic, and you're retaining ~20% > >> of it, you should be set for a while. Just don't buy any more servers > >> for a bit. > >> > >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> > I log a bunch of stats about all players who connect to my community. > I > >> > queried my database. > >> > > >> > This is the plugin to log stats: > >> > https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=230832 > >> > > >> > > >> > Dr. McKay > >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > >> > > >> >> Can you cite your source? > >> >> > >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> >> > In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come back. > >> >> > That's > >> >> > not an insignificant number. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Dr. McKay > >> >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> If your players were only in your servers because of quickplay, > >> >> >> they > >> >> >> probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity that > is > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, etc), you > >> were > >> >> >> just > >> >> >> some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to > "playing > >> >> TF2". > >> >> >> > >> >> >> When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, never add > >> >> >> you > >> >> >> to > >> >> >> favorites, and may never show back up again. You could see this as > >> >> "Valve > >> >> >> stealing your quickplay traffic" or you could see this as "Valve > >> >> rounding > >> >> >> up the people who mash PLAYNOW and have no interest in dedicated > >> >> servers, > >> >> >> or server communities". > >> >> >> > >> >> >> It's a changing demographic - people just want to play videogames, > >> not > >> >> >> really sign up for a whole 'favorite server loyalty program'. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> And who cares if our servers "die out"? What are we out? Ego? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Doctor McKay > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > For lack of a better word, this is the last stand of community > >> >> servers. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > The smaller communities that depend on Quickplay to gain > >> >> >> > popularity > >> >> >> > will > >> >> >> > die out. We'll be left with nothing but the > >> >> >> > already-large-and-established > >> >> >> > server chains, like Lotus, Skial, Saigns, and NighTeam. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Dr. McKay > >> >> >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >> >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > I've yet to see a single sane suggestion on how they police > bad > >> >> >> > > servers > >> >> >> > > other than "have people report them", which sounds like a bad > >> idea > >> >> >> > > for > >> >> >> > many > >> >> >> > > hopefully obvious reasons. > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > These are just video game servers; you aren't making money off > >> >> >> > > them, > >> >> >> > > if > >> >> >> > > they sit empty you aren't losing money off them either [more > >> >> >> > > than > >> >> the > >> >> >> > cost > >> >> >> > > of running the server, which you're already doing]. And if you > >> are > >> >> >> > (making > >> >> >> > > or losing money), then I would say Valve wants to put those > >> >> >> > > kind > >> >> >> > > of > >> >> >> > servers > >> >> >> > > out, as they generally fart up the experience with donation > >> >> requests, > >> >> >> or > >> >> >> > > donor perks, annoying MOTDs, sound packs, or whatever else you > >> >> >> > > crazy > >> >> >> > > SourceMod kiddies do nowadays. > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > People here are acting as if this some last stand situation. > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Game-Over > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >wrote: > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > > > We've spoken before via Email and as an honest server > >> >> >> > > > operator > >> I > >> >> >> > > > have > >> >> >> > > > followed your directions via email to
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
I have a feeling your 10% daily growth in the past is going to plenty to keep you afloat in these hard times. On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > Except most of Quickplay has just been shut off from us. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > >> Ok, but if you have ~50% quickplay traffic, and you're retaining ~20% >> of it, you should be set for a while. Just don't buy any more servers >> for a bit. >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> > I log a bunch of stats about all players who connect to my community. I >> > queried my database. >> > >> > This is the plugin to log stats: >> > https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=230832 >> > >> > >> > Dr. McKay >> > www.doctormckay.com >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Nerdboy wrote: >> > >> >> Can you cite your source? >> >> >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> >> > In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come back. >> >> > That's >> >> > not an insignificant number. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Dr. McKay >> >> > www.doctormckay.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> If your players were only in your servers because of quickplay, >> >> >> they >> >> >> probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity that is >> >> >> the >> >> >> collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, etc), you >> were >> >> >> just >> >> >> some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to "playing >> >> TF2". >> >> >> >> >> >> When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, never add >> >> >> you >> >> >> to >> >> >> favorites, and may never show back up again. You could see this as >> >> "Valve >> >> >> stealing your quickplay traffic" or you could see this as "Valve >> >> rounding >> >> >> up the people who mash PLAYNOW and have no interest in dedicated >> >> servers, >> >> >> or server communities". >> >> >> >> >> >> It's a changing demographic - people just want to play videogames, >> not >> >> >> really sign up for a whole 'favorite server loyalty program'. >> >> >> >> >> >> And who cares if our servers "die out"? What are we out? Ego? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Doctor McKay >> >> >> > > >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > For lack of a better word, this is the last stand of community >> >> servers. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > The smaller communities that depend on Quickplay to gain >> >> >> > popularity >> >> >> > will >> >> >> > die out. We'll be left with nothing but the >> >> >> > already-large-and-established >> >> >> > server chains, like Lotus, Skial, Saigns, and NighTeam. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Dr. McKay >> >> >> > www.doctormckay.com >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >> >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > I've yet to see a single sane suggestion on how they police bad >> >> >> > > servers >> >> >> > > other than "have people report them", which sounds like a bad >> idea >> >> >> > > for >> >> >> > many >> >> >> > > hopefully obvious reasons. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > These are just video game servers; you aren't making money off >> >> >> > > them, >> >> >> > > if >> >> >> > > they sit empty you aren't losing money off them either [more >> >> >> > > than >> >> the >> >> >> > cost >> >> >> > > of running the server, which you're already doing]. And if you >> are >> >> >> > (making >> >> >> > > or losing money), then I would say Valve wants to put those >> >> >> > > kind >> >> >> > > of >> >> >> > servers >> >> >> > > out, as they generally fart up the experience with donation >> >> requests, >> >> >> or >> >> >> > > donor perks, annoying MOTDs, sound packs, or whatever else you >> >> >> > > crazy >> >> >> > > SourceMod kiddies do nowadays. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > People here are acting as if this some last stand situation. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Game-Over >> >> >> > > > >> >> > > >wrote: >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > We've spoken before via Email and as an honest server >> >> >> > > > operator >> I >> >> >> > > > have >> >> >> > > > followed your directions via email to the letter. >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > So, Fletcher, please justify this ludicrous move you have now >> >> >> > > > made >> >> >> > > > to >> >> >> > > > Quickplay, after all of the support that we (us) genuine >> >> >> > > > server >> >> >> owners >> >> >> > > have >> >> >> > > > given you in the past years. >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > You chose this route rather than actually dealing with >> >> >> > > > corrupt >> >> >> > > > server >> >> >> > > > owners themselves, which we (on this mailing list) have asked >> >> >> > > > you >> >> >> > > > to >> >> >> do >> >> >> > > on >> >> >> > > > multiple occasions. >> >> >> > > > >> >>
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Yes the newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers. No it's not "fair", but who was making the assumption that running a Team Fortress 2 server must be some fair utopia where we all split the amount of players evenly among ourselves? On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Doctor McKay wrote: > So newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers with > their one server? > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > > > An easy solution to allow newcomers to get more traffic would be to > > reduce the number of servers you run. That way quickplay traffic is > > distributed more evenly rather than "who bought the most rack space?" > > > > On 1/24/14, Valentin G. wrote: > > > Then explain how should people remedy this situation? > > > > > > Not every community can retroactively join the master race and > > > suddenly be around for 6 years and have a great playerbase out of thin > > > air. Yes, there are servers that currently rely on quickplay. So what > > > if 50% is QP traffic. That's still 50% of players that are returning. > > > In order to increase that percentage of returning players we still > > > *need* to have the other 50%. If people don't even come to your server > > > in the first place (by being in the 50% QP population) there is not > > > even the *chance* of them staying around. > > > > > > This is the model when you use QP. Use the system, deliver an > > > experience that continuously moves the split towards a healthy, > > > returning player base. Of course it would be great if players still > > > went around the server browser and naturally found out about new > > > servers and stayed there. Since that doesn't happen anymore, newer > > > communities have to rely on quickplay. That's simply how it works. > > > It's really great for all the people here that have a long history in > > > their community and a stable and returning playerbase already. Not > > > everyone can enjoy that, and you are trying to prevent them from even > > > having the ability to achieve that. > > > > > > I really hope one day people get that into their thick heads. There > > > are start-ups that haven't been around since the TF2 beta. They *can > > > not* have as healthy of a playerbase as you already have. Don't talk > > > them down because of that, and even applaud Valve when every chance of > > > building up their community is ripped from their hands. > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Gordon Reynolds > > > wrote: > > >> Maybe there is a point to take from this. > > >> > > >> Maybe the kind of people who played TF2 pre-F2P era, aren't the same > > >> people > > >> who want to play TF2 now? > > >> > > >> Demographics change, if you think the same type of people pick up TF2 > > >> today > > >> as the ones who paid money to pick it up pre-F2P, you might be in for > a > > >> bit > > >> of a shock. Or not, look at your numbers, 50% of your population is > just > > >> there because that's where they ended up, they didn't choose to be on > > >> your > > >> server. > > >> > > >> > > >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Doctor McKay > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Find me a vanilla server that remains populated without the help of > > >>> Quickplay. They don't exist. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Dr. McKay > > >>> www.doctormckay.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > > >>> thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get 47% > > >>> > quickplay > > >>> > traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server that > might > > >>> > be > > >>> > twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled regulars > from > > >>> > quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during peak), > > >>> > because > > >>> > of all your regulars? > > >>> > > > >>> > Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server they > are > > >>> on-, > > >>> > and will never add your server to favorites as is? > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay < > mc...@doctormckay.com > > > > > >>> > wrote: > > >>> > > > >>> > > The cvar was actually added at the request of myself and several > > >>> others. > > >>> > > > > >>> > > I took the liberty to make a chart showing exactly what percent > of > > >>> > > my > > >>> > > players come from Quickplay. The result was disappointingly high: > > >>> > > http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png > > >>> > > > > >>> > > I don't expect any more than 20% of Quickplay users to uncheck > the > > >>> > > "Official servers only" box. That means that I have lost around > 40% > > >>> > > of > > >>> my > > >>> > > traffic. My community is relatively popular, too. Smaller > > >>> > > communities > > >>> or > > >>> > > communities that are just starting up will lose a lot more > traffic > > >>> than I > > >>> > > will. > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > Dr. McKay > > >>> > > www.doctormck
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
It's not the servers (that already exist) are the problem. It's that the already existing playerbase is constantly reduced. I want servers to flourish by using what's available, not by cutting down large server owners. That's backwards logic. On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:42 AM, Nerdboy wrote: > No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should > scale back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. > > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> So newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers with >> their one server? >> >> >> Dr. McKay >> www.doctormckay.com >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Nerdboy wrote: >> >>> An easy solution to allow newcomers to get more traffic would be to >>> reduce the number of servers you run. That way quickplay traffic is >>> distributed more evenly rather than "who bought the most rack space?" >>> >>> On 1/24/14, Valentin G. wrote: >>> > Then explain how should people remedy this situation? >>> > >>> > Not every community can retroactively join the master race and >>> > suddenly be around for 6 years and have a great playerbase out of thin >>> > air. Yes, there are servers that currently rely on quickplay. So what >>> > if 50% is QP traffic. That's still 50% of players that are returning. >>> > In order to increase that percentage of returning players we still >>> > *need* to have the other 50%. If people don't even come to your server >>> > in the first place (by being in the 50% QP population) there is not >>> > even the *chance* of them staying around. >>> > >>> > This is the model when you use QP. Use the system, deliver an >>> > experience that continuously moves the split towards a healthy, >>> > returning player base. Of course it would be great if players still >>> > went around the server browser and naturally found out about new >>> > servers and stayed there. Since that doesn't happen anymore, newer >>> > communities have to rely on quickplay. That's simply how it works. >>> > It's really great for all the people here that have a long history in >>> > their community and a stable and returning playerbase already. Not >>> > everyone can enjoy that, and you are trying to prevent them from even >>> > having the ability to achieve that. >>> > >>> > I really hope one day people get that into their thick heads. There >>> > are start-ups that haven't been around since the TF2 beta. They *can >>> > not* have as healthy of a playerbase as you already have. Don't talk >>> > them down because of that, and even applaud Valve when every chance of >>> > building up their community is ripped from their hands. >>> > >>> > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Gordon Reynolds >>> > wrote: >>> >> Maybe there is a point to take from this. >>> >> >>> >> Maybe the kind of people who played TF2 pre-F2P era, aren't the same >>> >> people >>> >> who want to play TF2 now? >>> >> >>> >> Demographics change, if you think the same type of people pick up TF2 >>> >> today >>> >> as the ones who paid money to pick it up pre-F2P, you might be in for >>> >> a >>> >> bit >>> >> of a shock. Or not, look at your numbers, 50% of your population is >>> >> just >>> >> there because that's where they ended up, they didn't choose to be on >>> >> your >>> >> server. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Doctor McKay >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Find me a vanilla server that remains populated without the help of >>> >>> Quickplay. They don't exist. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr. McKay >>> >>> www.doctormckay.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >>> >>> thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> > So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get 47% >>> >>> > quickplay >>> >>> > traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server that >>> >>> > might >>> >>> > be >>> >>> > twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled regulars >>> >>> > from >>> >>> > quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during peak), >>> >>> > because >>> >>> > of all your regulars? >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server they >>> >>> > are >>> >>> on-, >>> >>> > and will never add your server to favorites as is? >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay >>> >>> > >> > >>> >>> > wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >>> > > The cvar was actually added at the request of myself and several >>> >>> others. >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > I took the liberty to make a chart showing exactly what percent >>> >>> > > of >>> >>> > > my >>> >>> > > players come from Quickplay. The result was disappointingly high: >>> >>> > > http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > I don't expect any more than 20% of Quickplay users to uncheck >>> >>> > > the >>> >>> > > "Official servers only" box. That means that I have lost around >>> >>> > > 40% >>> >>> > > of >>> >>> my >>> >>> > > traffic. My community is relatively popular, too. Smaller >>> >>>
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Why does it matter if your server is popular though? Is there money to be made? Can your friends not join whatever server you're in? Do you not want to play on other people's servers? There is already a GLUT of TF2 servers out there, there is no reasonable expectation that Valve has to make the server landscape a perfectly flat playing field for every brand-new community who wants to join the party half a decade late. You want to make a new community and try to get big and popular? Join the club, some of us have been here for YEARS doing that - just because it's harder to get popular now doesn't mean anything. This move might go "against server operators", but at the same time it simplifies life for the hundreds of thousands of people who DON'T run a server, and would rather push one button and be playing a video game, without worrying about whatever server they'll be redirected to, or some admin that will ban you for "Insubordination", or for wearing the wrong clan tag (seriously go read the rules for some of these servers: https://firepoweredgaming.com/forums/page/rules and try not to laugh). Server operators are not the only people in the TF2 community, and shockingly enough, may not even be the most important people in the community anymore, especially post F2P. Shoot the messenger if you want, continue to insult me if that helps your arguments, but this is a lot of anger that stems from the fact our servers may not be as full (of people who won't return) as we like. It's a pretty selfish sounding complaint. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Valentin G. wrote: > Then explain how should people remedy this situation? > > Not every community can retroactively join the master race and > suddenly be around for 6 years and have a great playerbase out of thin > air. Yes, there are servers that currently rely on quickplay. So what > if 50% is QP traffic. That's still 50% of players that are returning. > In order to increase that percentage of returning players we still > *need* to have the other 50%. If people don't even come to your server > in the first place (by being in the 50% QP population) there is not > even the *chance* of them staying around. > > This is the model when you use QP. Use the system, deliver an > experience that continuously moves the split towards a healthy, > returning player base. Of course it would be great if players still > went around the server browser and naturally found out about new > servers and stayed there. Since that doesn't happen anymore, newer > communities have to rely on quickplay. That's simply how it works. > It's really great for all the people here that have a long history in > their community and a stable and returning playerbase already. Not > everyone can enjoy that, and you are trying to prevent them from even > having the ability to achieve that. > > I really hope one day people get that into their thick heads. There > are start-ups that haven't been around since the TF2 beta. They *can > not* have as healthy of a playerbase as you already have. Don't talk > them down because of that, and even applaud Valve when every chance of > building up their community is ripped from their hands. > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Gordon Reynolds > wrote: > > Maybe there is a point to take from this. > > > > Maybe the kind of people who played TF2 pre-F2P era, aren't the same > people > > who want to play TF2 now? > > > > Demographics change, if you think the same type of people pick up TF2 > today > > as the ones who paid money to pick it up pre-F2P, you might be in for a > bit > > of a shock. Or not, look at your numbers, 50% of your population is just > > there because that's where they ended up, they didn't choose to be on > your > > server. > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Doctor McKay > wrote: > > > >> Find me a vanilla server that remains populated without the help of > >> Quickplay. They don't exist. > >> > >> > >> Dr. McKay > >> www.doctormckay.com > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >> thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get 47% > quickplay > >> > traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server that might > be > >> > twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled regulars from > >> > quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during peak), > because > >> > of all your regulars? > >> > > >> > Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server they are > >> on-, > >> > and will never add your server to favorites as is? > >> > > >> > > >> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > The cvar was actually added at the request of myself and several > >> others. > >> > > > >> > > I took the liberty to make a chart showing exactly what percent of > my > >> > > players come from Quickplay. The result was disappointingly high: > >> > > http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png > >> >
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
Except most of Quickplay has just been shut off from us. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > Ok, but if you have ~50% quickplay traffic, and you're retaining ~20% > of it, you should be set for a while. Just don't buy any more servers > for a bit. > > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > I log a bunch of stats about all players who connect to my community. I > > queried my database. > > > > This is the plugin to log stats: > > https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=230832 > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > > > >> Can you cite your source? > >> > >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> > In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come back. > >> > That's > >> > not an insignificant number. > >> > > >> > > >> > Dr. McKay > >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> If your players were only in your servers because of quickplay, they > >> >> probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity that is > >> >> the > >> >> collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, etc), you > were > >> >> just > >> >> some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to "playing > >> TF2". > >> >> > >> >> When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, never add you > >> >> to > >> >> favorites, and may never show back up again. You could see this as > >> "Valve > >> >> stealing your quickplay traffic" or you could see this as "Valve > >> rounding > >> >> up the people who mash PLAYNOW and have no interest in dedicated > >> servers, > >> >> or server communities". > >> >> > >> >> It's a changing demographic - people just want to play videogames, > not > >> >> really sign up for a whole 'favorite server loyalty program'. > >> >> > >> >> And who cares if our servers "die out"? What are we out? Ego? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Doctor McKay > > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > For lack of a better word, this is the last stand of community > >> servers. > >> >> > > >> >> > The smaller communities that depend on Quickplay to gain popularity > >> >> > will > >> >> > die out. We'll be left with nothing but the > >> >> > already-large-and-established > >> >> > server chains, like Lotus, Skial, Saigns, and NighTeam. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Dr. McKay > >> >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > > I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > I've yet to see a single sane suggestion on how they police bad > >> >> > > servers > >> >> > > other than "have people report them", which sounds like a bad > idea > >> >> > > for > >> >> > many > >> >> > > hopefully obvious reasons. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > These are just video game servers; you aren't making money off > >> >> > > them, > >> >> > > if > >> >> > > they sit empty you aren't losing money off them either [more than > >> the > >> >> > cost > >> >> > > of running the server, which you're already doing]. And if you > are > >> >> > (making > >> >> > > or losing money), then I would say Valve wants to put those kind > >> >> > > of > >> >> > servers > >> >> > > out, as they generally fart up the experience with donation > >> requests, > >> >> or > >> >> > > donor perks, annoying MOTDs, sound packs, or whatever else you > >> >> > > crazy > >> >> > > SourceMod kiddies do nowadays. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > People here are acting as if this some last stand situation. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Game-Over > >> >> > > >> >> > > >wrote: > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > We've spoken before via Email and as an honest server operator > I > >> >> > > > have > >> >> > > > followed your directions via email to the letter. > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > So, Fletcher, please justify this ludicrous move you have now > >> >> > > > made > >> >> > > > to > >> >> > > > Quickplay, after all of the support that we (us) genuine server > >> >> owners > >> >> > > have > >> >> > > > given you in the past years. > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > You chose this route rather than actually dealing with corrupt > >> >> > > > server > >> >> > > > owners themselves, which we (on this mailing list) have asked > >> >> > > > you > >> >> > > > to > >> >> do > >> >> > > on > >> >> > > > multiple occasions. > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > Looking forward to your reply sir. > >> >> > > > ___ > >> >> > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >> archives, > >> >> > > > please visit: > >> >> > > > > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > ___ > >> >> > > To uns
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should scale back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > So newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers with > their one server? > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > >> An easy solution to allow newcomers to get more traffic would be to >> reduce the number of servers you run. That way quickplay traffic is >> distributed more evenly rather than "who bought the most rack space?" >> >> On 1/24/14, Valentin G. wrote: >> > Then explain how should people remedy this situation? >> > >> > Not every community can retroactively join the master race and >> > suddenly be around for 6 years and have a great playerbase out of thin >> > air. Yes, there are servers that currently rely on quickplay. So what >> > if 50% is QP traffic. That's still 50% of players that are returning. >> > In order to increase that percentage of returning players we still >> > *need* to have the other 50%. If people don't even come to your server >> > in the first place (by being in the 50% QP population) there is not >> > even the *chance* of them staying around. >> > >> > This is the model when you use QP. Use the system, deliver an >> > experience that continuously moves the split towards a healthy, >> > returning player base. Of course it would be great if players still >> > went around the server browser and naturally found out about new >> > servers and stayed there. Since that doesn't happen anymore, newer >> > communities have to rely on quickplay. That's simply how it works. >> > It's really great for all the people here that have a long history in >> > their community and a stable and returning playerbase already. Not >> > everyone can enjoy that, and you are trying to prevent them from even >> > having the ability to achieve that. >> > >> > I really hope one day people get that into their thick heads. There >> > are start-ups that haven't been around since the TF2 beta. They *can >> > not* have as healthy of a playerbase as you already have. Don't talk >> > them down because of that, and even applaud Valve when every chance of >> > building up their community is ripped from their hands. >> > >> > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Gordon Reynolds >> > wrote: >> >> Maybe there is a point to take from this. >> >> >> >> Maybe the kind of people who played TF2 pre-F2P era, aren't the same >> >> people >> >> who want to play TF2 now? >> >> >> >> Demographics change, if you think the same type of people pick up TF2 >> >> today >> >> as the ones who paid money to pick it up pre-F2P, you might be in for >> >> a >> >> bit >> >> of a shock. Or not, look at your numbers, 50% of your population is >> >> just >> >> there because that's where they ended up, they didn't choose to be on >> >> your >> >> server. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Doctor McKay >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Find me a vanilla server that remains populated without the help of >> >>> Quickplay. They don't exist. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Dr. McKay >> >>> www.doctormckay.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >> >>> thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> > So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get 47% >> >>> > quickplay >> >>> > traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server that >> >>> > might >> >>> > be >> >>> > twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled regulars >> >>> > from >> >>> > quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during peak), >> >>> > because >> >>> > of all your regulars? >> >>> > >> >>> > Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server they >> >>> > are >> >>> on-, >> >>> > and will never add your server to favorites as is? >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay >> >>> > > > >> >>> > wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> > > The cvar was actually added at the request of myself and several >> >>> others. >> >>> > > >> >>> > > I took the liberty to make a chart showing exactly what percent >> >>> > > of >> >>> > > my >> >>> > > players come from Quickplay. The result was disappointingly high: >> >>> > > http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png >> >>> > > >> >>> > > I don't expect any more than 20% of Quickplay users to uncheck >> >>> > > the >> >>> > > "Official servers only" box. That means that I have lost around >> >>> > > 40% >> >>> > > of >> >>> my >> >>> > > traffic. My community is relatively popular, too. Smaller >> >>> > > communities >> >>> or >> >>> > > communities that are just starting up will lose a lot more >> >>> > > traffic >> >>> than I >> >>> > > will. >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > Dr. McKay >> >>> > > www.doctormckay.com >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Robert Paulson < >> >>> thepauls...@gmail.com >> >>> > > >wrote: >> >>> > > >> >>> > > > It's quite obvious really. Valve only mak
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
Ok, but if you have ~50% quickplay traffic, and you're retaining ~20% of it, you should be set for a while. Just don't buy any more servers for a bit. On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > I log a bunch of stats about all players who connect to my community. I > queried my database. > > This is the plugin to log stats: > https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=230832 > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > >> Can you cite your source? >> >> On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: >> > In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come back. >> > That's >> > not an insignificant number. >> > >> > >> > Dr. McKay >> > www.doctormckay.com >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> If your players were only in your servers because of quickplay, they >> >> probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity that is >> >> the >> >> collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, etc), you were >> >> just >> >> some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to "playing >> TF2". >> >> >> >> When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, never add you >> >> to >> >> favorites, and may never show back up again. You could see this as >> "Valve >> >> stealing your quickplay traffic" or you could see this as "Valve >> rounding >> >> up the people who mash PLAYNOW and have no interest in dedicated >> servers, >> >> or server communities". >> >> >> >> It's a changing demographic - people just want to play videogames, not >> >> really sign up for a whole 'favorite server loyalty program'. >> >> >> >> And who cares if our servers "die out"? What are we out? Ego? >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Doctor McKay >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > For lack of a better word, this is the last stand of community >> servers. >> >> > >> >> > The smaller communities that depend on Quickplay to gain popularity >> >> > will >> >> > die out. We'll be left with nothing but the >> >> > already-large-and-established >> >> > server chains, like Lotus, Skial, Saigns, and NighTeam. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Dr. McKay >> >> > www.doctormckay.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >> >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. >> >> > > >> >> > > I've yet to see a single sane suggestion on how they police bad >> >> > > servers >> >> > > other than "have people report them", which sounds like a bad idea >> >> > > for >> >> > many >> >> > > hopefully obvious reasons. >> >> > > >> >> > > These are just video game servers; you aren't making money off >> >> > > them, >> >> > > if >> >> > > they sit empty you aren't losing money off them either [more than >> the >> >> > cost >> >> > > of running the server, which you're already doing]. And if you are >> >> > (making >> >> > > or losing money), then I would say Valve wants to put those kind >> >> > > of >> >> > servers >> >> > > out, as they generally fart up the experience with donation >> requests, >> >> or >> >> > > donor perks, annoying MOTDs, sound packs, or whatever else you >> >> > > crazy >> >> > > SourceMod kiddies do nowadays. >> >> > > >> >> > > People here are acting as if this some last stand situation. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Game-Over >> >> > > > >> > > >wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > We've spoken before via Email and as an honest server operator I >> >> > > > have >> >> > > > followed your directions via email to the letter. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > So, Fletcher, please justify this ludicrous move you have now >> >> > > > made >> >> > > > to >> >> > > > Quickplay, after all of the support that we (us) genuine server >> >> owners >> >> > > have >> >> > > > given you in the past years. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > You chose this route rather than actually dealing with corrupt >> >> > > > server >> >> > > > owners themselves, which we (on this mailing list) have asked >> >> > > > you >> >> > > > to >> >> do >> >> > > on >> >> > > > multiple occasions. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Looking forward to your reply sir. >> >> > > > ___ >> >> > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >> archives, >> >> > > > please visit: >> >> > > > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >> > > > >> >> > > ___ >> >> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >> > > archives, >> >> > > please visit: >> >> > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >> > > >> >> > ___ >> >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >> > archives, >> >> > please visit: >> >> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >> > >> >
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
So newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers with their one server? Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > An easy solution to allow newcomers to get more traffic would be to > reduce the number of servers you run. That way quickplay traffic is > distributed more evenly rather than "who bought the most rack space?" > > On 1/24/14, Valentin G. wrote: > > Then explain how should people remedy this situation? > > > > Not every community can retroactively join the master race and > > suddenly be around for 6 years and have a great playerbase out of thin > > air. Yes, there are servers that currently rely on quickplay. So what > > if 50% is QP traffic. That's still 50% of players that are returning. > > In order to increase that percentage of returning players we still > > *need* to have the other 50%. If people don't even come to your server > > in the first place (by being in the 50% QP population) there is not > > even the *chance* of them staying around. > > > > This is the model when you use QP. Use the system, deliver an > > experience that continuously moves the split towards a healthy, > > returning player base. Of course it would be great if players still > > went around the server browser and naturally found out about new > > servers and stayed there. Since that doesn't happen anymore, newer > > communities have to rely on quickplay. That's simply how it works. > > It's really great for all the people here that have a long history in > > their community and a stable and returning playerbase already. Not > > everyone can enjoy that, and you are trying to prevent them from even > > having the ability to achieve that. > > > > I really hope one day people get that into their thick heads. There > > are start-ups that haven't been around since the TF2 beta. They *can > > not* have as healthy of a playerbase as you already have. Don't talk > > them down because of that, and even applaud Valve when every chance of > > building up their community is ripped from their hands. > > > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Gordon Reynolds > > wrote: > >> Maybe there is a point to take from this. > >> > >> Maybe the kind of people who played TF2 pre-F2P era, aren't the same > >> people > >> who want to play TF2 now? > >> > >> Demographics change, if you think the same type of people pick up TF2 > >> today > >> as the ones who paid money to pick it up pre-F2P, you might be in for a > >> bit > >> of a shock. Or not, look at your numbers, 50% of your population is just > >> there because that's where they ended up, they didn't choose to be on > >> your > >> server. > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Doctor McKay > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Find me a vanilla server that remains populated without the help of > >>> Quickplay. They don't exist. > >>> > >>> > >>> Dr. McKay > >>> www.doctormckay.com > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >>> thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> > So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get 47% > >>> > quickplay > >>> > traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server that might > >>> > be > >>> > twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled regulars from > >>> > quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during peak), > >>> > because > >>> > of all your regulars? > >>> > > >>> > Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server they are > >>> on-, > >>> > and will never add your server to favorites as is? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay > > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > The cvar was actually added at the request of myself and several > >>> others. > >>> > > > >>> > > I took the liberty to make a chart showing exactly what percent of > >>> > > my > >>> > > players come from Quickplay. The result was disappointingly high: > >>> > > http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png > >>> > > > >>> > > I don't expect any more than 20% of Quickplay users to uncheck the > >>> > > "Official servers only" box. That means that I have lost around 40% > >>> > > of > >>> my > >>> > > traffic. My community is relatively popular, too. Smaller > >>> > > communities > >>> or > >>> > > communities that are just starting up will lose a lot more traffic > >>> than I > >>> > > will. > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > Dr. McKay > >>> > > www.doctormckay.com > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Robert Paulson < > >>> thepauls...@gmail.com > >>> > > >wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > > It's quite obvious really. Valve only makes features to benefit > >>> > > themselves > >>> > > > or players, and cl_connectmethod was at face value did not do > >>> > > > either > >>> > one. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > They don't care about server owners having this knowledge unless > >>> > > > it > >>> > > > benefits them and didn't even bother to protect the convar from > >>> > spoofing > >>> > > by > >>> > > > a using 1 conva
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
I log a bunch of stats about all players who connect to my community. I queried my database. This is the plugin to log stats: https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=230832 Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Nerdboy wrote: > Can you cite your source? > > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > > In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come back. That's > > not an insignificant number. > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> If your players were only in your servers because of quickplay, they > >> probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity that is the > >> collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, etc), you were > >> just > >> some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to "playing > TF2". > >> > >> When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, never add you to > >> favorites, and may never show back up again. You could see this as > "Valve > >> stealing your quickplay traffic" or you could see this as "Valve > rounding > >> up the people who mash PLAYNOW and have no interest in dedicated > servers, > >> or server communities". > >> > >> It's a changing demographic - people just want to play videogames, not > >> really sign up for a whole 'favorite server loyalty program'. > >> > >> And who cares if our servers "die out"? What are we out? Ego? > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Doctor McKay > >> wrote: > >> > >> > For lack of a better word, this is the last stand of community > servers. > >> > > >> > The smaller communities that depend on Quickplay to gain popularity > >> > will > >> > die out. We'll be left with nothing but the > >> > already-large-and-established > >> > server chains, like Lotus, Skial, Saigns, and NighTeam. > >> > > >> > > >> > Dr. McKay > >> > www.doctormckay.com > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > > I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. > >> > > > >> > > I've yet to see a single sane suggestion on how they police bad > >> > > servers > >> > > other than "have people report them", which sounds like a bad idea > >> > > for > >> > many > >> > > hopefully obvious reasons. > >> > > > >> > > These are just video game servers; you aren't making money off them, > >> > > if > >> > > they sit empty you aren't losing money off them either [more than > the > >> > cost > >> > > of running the server, which you're already doing]. And if you are > >> > (making > >> > > or losing money), then I would say Valve wants to put those kind of > >> > servers > >> > > out, as they generally fart up the experience with donation > requests, > >> or > >> > > donor perks, annoying MOTDs, sound packs, or whatever else you crazy > >> > > SourceMod kiddies do nowadays. > >> > > > >> > > People here are acting as if this some last stand situation. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Game-Over > >> > > >> > > >wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > We've spoken before via Email and as an honest server operator I > >> > > > have > >> > > > followed your directions via email to the letter. > >> > > > > >> > > > So, Fletcher, please justify this ludicrous move you have now made > >> > > > to > >> > > > Quickplay, after all of the support that we (us) genuine server > >> owners > >> > > have > >> > > > given you in the past years. > >> > > > > >> > > > You chose this route rather than actually dealing with corrupt > >> > > > server > >> > > > owners themselves, which we (on this mailing list) have asked you > >> > > > to > >> do > >> > > on > >> > > > multiple occasions. > >> > > > > >> > > > Looking forward to your reply sir. > >> > > > ___ > >> > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> archives, > >> > > > please visit: > >> > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> > > > > >> > > ___ > >> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> > > archives, > >> > > please visit: > >> > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> > > > >> > ___ > >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> > please visit: > >> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> > > >> ___ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/m
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
An easy solution to allow newcomers to get more traffic would be to reduce the number of servers you run. That way quickplay traffic is distributed more evenly rather than "who bought the most rack space?" On 1/24/14, Valentin G. wrote: > Then explain how should people remedy this situation? > > Not every community can retroactively join the master race and > suddenly be around for 6 years and have a great playerbase out of thin > air. Yes, there are servers that currently rely on quickplay. So what > if 50% is QP traffic. That's still 50% of players that are returning. > In order to increase that percentage of returning players we still > *need* to have the other 50%. If people don't even come to your server > in the first place (by being in the 50% QP population) there is not > even the *chance* of them staying around. > > This is the model when you use QP. Use the system, deliver an > experience that continuously moves the split towards a healthy, > returning player base. Of course it would be great if players still > went around the server browser and naturally found out about new > servers and stayed there. Since that doesn't happen anymore, newer > communities have to rely on quickplay. That's simply how it works. > It's really great for all the people here that have a long history in > their community and a stable and returning playerbase already. Not > everyone can enjoy that, and you are trying to prevent them from even > having the ability to achieve that. > > I really hope one day people get that into their thick heads. There > are start-ups that haven't been around since the TF2 beta. They *can > not* have as healthy of a playerbase as you already have. Don't talk > them down because of that, and even applaud Valve when every chance of > building up their community is ripped from their hands. > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Gordon Reynolds > wrote: >> Maybe there is a point to take from this. >> >> Maybe the kind of people who played TF2 pre-F2P era, aren't the same >> people >> who want to play TF2 now? >> >> Demographics change, if you think the same type of people pick up TF2 >> today >> as the ones who paid money to pick it up pre-F2P, you might be in for a >> bit >> of a shock. Or not, look at your numbers, 50% of your population is just >> there because that's where they ended up, they didn't choose to be on >> your >> server. >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Doctor McKay >> wrote: >> >>> Find me a vanilla server that remains populated without the help of >>> Quickplay. They don't exist. >>> >>> >>> Dr. McKay >>> www.doctormckay.com >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >>> thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get 47% >>> > quickplay >>> > traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server that might >>> > be >>> > twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled regulars from >>> > quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during peak), >>> > because >>> > of all your regulars? >>> > >>> > Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server they are >>> on-, >>> > and will never add your server to favorites as is? >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > > The cvar was actually added at the request of myself and several >>> others. >>> > > >>> > > I took the liberty to make a chart showing exactly what percent of >>> > > my >>> > > players come from Quickplay. The result was disappointingly high: >>> > > http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png >>> > > >>> > > I don't expect any more than 20% of Quickplay users to uncheck the >>> > > "Official servers only" box. That means that I have lost around 40% >>> > > of >>> my >>> > > traffic. My community is relatively popular, too. Smaller >>> > > communities >>> or >>> > > communities that are just starting up will lose a lot more traffic >>> than I >>> > > will. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Dr. McKay >>> > > www.doctormckay.com >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Robert Paulson < >>> thepauls...@gmail.com >>> > > >wrote: >>> > > >>> > > > It's quite obvious really. Valve only makes features to benefit >>> > > themselves >>> > > > or players, and cl_connectmethod was at face value did not do >>> > > > either >>> > one. >>> > > > >>> > > > They don't care about server owners having this knowledge unless >>> > > > it >>> > > > benefits them and didn't even bother to protect the convar from >>> > spoofing >>> > > by >>> > > > a using 1 convar flag. >>> > > > >>> > > > Its main purpose was to stop server owners from complaining about >>> > > > all >>> > the >>> > > > restrictions placed on quickplay on the flawed assumption that >>> > quickplay >>> > > is >>> > > > a tiny and unimportant part of your player base. >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Doctor McKay >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > > W
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Then explain how should people remedy this situation? Not every community can retroactively join the master race and suddenly be around for 6 years and have a great playerbase out of thin air. Yes, there are servers that currently rely on quickplay. So what if 50% is QP traffic. That's still 50% of players that are returning. In order to increase that percentage of returning players we still *need* to have the other 50%. If people don't even come to your server in the first place (by being in the 50% QP population) there is not even the *chance* of them staying around. This is the model when you use QP. Use the system, deliver an experience that continuously moves the split towards a healthy, returning player base. Of course it would be great if players still went around the server browser and naturally found out about new servers and stayed there. Since that doesn't happen anymore, newer communities have to rely on quickplay. That's simply how it works. It's really great for all the people here that have a long history in their community and a stable and returning playerbase already. Not everyone can enjoy that, and you are trying to prevent them from even having the ability to achieve that. I really hope one day people get that into their thick heads. There are start-ups that haven't been around since the TF2 beta. They *can not* have as healthy of a playerbase as you already have. Don't talk them down because of that, and even applaud Valve when every chance of building up their community is ripped from their hands. On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Gordon Reynolds wrote: > Maybe there is a point to take from this. > > Maybe the kind of people who played TF2 pre-F2P era, aren't the same people > who want to play TF2 now? > > Demographics change, if you think the same type of people pick up TF2 today > as the ones who paid money to pick it up pre-F2P, you might be in for a bit > of a shock. Or not, look at your numbers, 50% of your population is just > there because that's where they ended up, they didn't choose to be on your > server. > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Doctor McKay wrote: > >> Find me a vanilla server that remains populated without the help of >> Quickplay. They don't exist. >> >> >> Dr. McKay >> www.doctormckay.com >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >> thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get 47% quickplay >> > traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server that might be >> > twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled regulars from >> > quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during peak), because >> > of all your regulars? >> > >> > Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server they are >> on-, >> > and will never add your server to favorites as is? >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay >> > wrote: >> > >> > > The cvar was actually added at the request of myself and several >> others. >> > > >> > > I took the liberty to make a chart showing exactly what percent of my >> > > players come from Quickplay. The result was disappointingly high: >> > > http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png >> > > >> > > I don't expect any more than 20% of Quickplay users to uncheck the >> > > "Official servers only" box. That means that I have lost around 40% of >> my >> > > traffic. My community is relatively popular, too. Smaller communities >> or >> > > communities that are just starting up will lose a lot more traffic >> than I >> > > will. >> > > >> > > >> > > Dr. McKay >> > > www.doctormckay.com >> > > >> > > >> > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Robert Paulson < >> thepauls...@gmail.com >> > > >wrote: >> > > >> > > > It's quite obvious really. Valve only makes features to benefit >> > > themselves >> > > > or players, and cl_connectmethod was at face value did not do either >> > one. >> > > > >> > > > They don't care about server owners having this knowledge unless it >> > > > benefits them and didn't even bother to protect the convar from >> > spoofing >> > > by >> > > > a using 1 convar flag. >> > > > >> > > > Its main purpose was to stop server owners from complaining about all >> > the >> > > > restrictions placed on quickplay on the flawed assumption that >> > quickplay >> > > is >> > > > a tiny and unimportant part of your player base. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Doctor McKay > > >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > While I agree with what you are saying, what does cl_connectmethod >> > have >> > > > to >> > > > > do with any of this? >> > > > > On Jan 23, 2014 9:12 PM, "Robert Paulson" >> > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > First they came for the custom attachments, and I did not speak >> > out. >> > > > > > Because I did not use it. >> > > > > > Then they came for fast respawn, and I did not speak out. >> Because I >> > > did >> > > > > not >> > > > > > use it. >> > > > > > Then they ca
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
Can you cite your source? On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay wrote: > In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come back. That's > not an insignificant number. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> If your players were only in your servers because of quickplay, they >> probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity that is the >> collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, etc), you were >> just >> some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to "playing TF2". >> >> When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, never add you to >> favorites, and may never show back up again. You could see this as "Valve >> stealing your quickplay traffic" or you could see this as "Valve rounding >> up the people who mash PLAYNOW and have no interest in dedicated servers, >> or server communities". >> >> It's a changing demographic - people just want to play videogames, not >> really sign up for a whole 'favorite server loyalty program'. >> >> And who cares if our servers "die out"? What are we out? Ego? >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Doctor McKay >> wrote: >> >> > For lack of a better word, this is the last stand of community servers. >> > >> > The smaller communities that depend on Quickplay to gain popularity >> > will >> > die out. We'll be left with nothing but the >> > already-large-and-established >> > server chains, like Lotus, Skial, Saigns, and NighTeam. >> > >> > >> > Dr. McKay >> > www.doctormckay.com >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > > I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. >> > > >> > > I've yet to see a single sane suggestion on how they police bad >> > > servers >> > > other than "have people report them", which sounds like a bad idea >> > > for >> > many >> > > hopefully obvious reasons. >> > > >> > > These are just video game servers; you aren't making money off them, >> > > if >> > > they sit empty you aren't losing money off them either [more than the >> > cost >> > > of running the server, which you're already doing]. And if you are >> > (making >> > > or losing money), then I would say Valve wants to put those kind of >> > servers >> > > out, as they generally fart up the experience with donation requests, >> or >> > > donor perks, annoying MOTDs, sound packs, or whatever else you crazy >> > > SourceMod kiddies do nowadays. >> > > >> > > People here are acting as if this some last stand situation. >> > > >> > > >> > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Game-Over >> > > > > > >wrote: >> > > >> > > > >> > > > We've spoken before via Email and as an honest server operator I >> > > > have >> > > > followed your directions via email to the letter. >> > > > >> > > > So, Fletcher, please justify this ludicrous move you have now made >> > > > to >> > > > Quickplay, after all of the support that we (us) genuine server >> owners >> > > have >> > > > given you in the past years. >> > > > >> > > > You chose this route rather than actually dealing with corrupt >> > > > server >> > > > owners themselves, which we (on this mailing list) have asked you >> > > > to >> do >> > > on >> > > > multiple occasions. >> > > > >> > > > Looking forward to your reply sir. >> > > > ___ >> > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >> > > > please visit: >> > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > > > >> > > ___ >> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> > > archives, >> > > please visit: >> > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > > >> > ___ >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> > please visit: >> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
What people don't get: New server communities have no way to establish themselves anymore. Every single time people tout how "Your servers are dead anyway if they rely on quickplay", "My servers don't need quickplay", great. But how exactly are newcomers supposed to get to that stage? New players are almost forced to use quickplay at this point. If these players never leave this system, and now don't even get connected to community servers by default, how are server operators supposed to get those regular players onto their servers? There is no way to do that. You can literally offer the best experience possible, but people won't search for and let alone even find your server. We have gotten a pretty stable amount of regulars in the time we've been doing this. Largely because quickplay allowed us to kickstart that development immensely. We can offer a good experience to a lot of returning players, but where should we find new players now? Not only do we need them in some of the slower times when our core playerbase is partly absent, to have the server still be full with a mix of QP and returning players. But also regulars won't be staying around forever. The natural development in the playerbase is gone if all new players are drained towards Valve servers in the future. Right now we could afford to not care about this. But it's simply ignorant and a dick move to just move along and even defend this decision. It hurts your peers, and in the long run it will hurt you. This is not a good way, I want it to change. On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:09 AM, Doctor McKay wrote: > In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come back. That's > not an insignificant number. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> If your players were only in your servers because of quickplay, they >> probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity that is the >> collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, etc), you were just >> some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to "playing TF2". >> >> When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, never add you to >> favorites, and may never show back up again. You could see this as "Valve >> stealing your quickplay traffic" or you could see this as "Valve rounding >> up the people who mash PLAYNOW and have no interest in dedicated servers, >> or server communities". >> >> It's a changing demographic - people just want to play videogames, not >> really sign up for a whole 'favorite server loyalty program'. >> >> And who cares if our servers "die out"? What are we out? Ego? >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Doctor McKay >> wrote: >> >> > For lack of a better word, this is the last stand of community servers. >> > >> > The smaller communities that depend on Quickplay to gain popularity will >> > die out. We'll be left with nothing but the already-large-and-established >> > server chains, like Lotus, Skial, Saigns, and NighTeam. >> > >> > >> > Dr. McKay >> > www.doctormckay.com >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Gordon Reynolds < >> > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > > I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. >> > > >> > > I've yet to see a single sane suggestion on how they police bad servers >> > > other than "have people report them", which sounds like a bad idea for >> > many >> > > hopefully obvious reasons. >> > > >> > > These are just video game servers; you aren't making money off them, if >> > > they sit empty you aren't losing money off them either [more than the >> > cost >> > > of running the server, which you're already doing]. And if you are >> > (making >> > > or losing money), then I would say Valve wants to put those kind of >> > servers >> > > out, as they generally fart up the experience with donation requests, >> or >> > > donor perks, annoying MOTDs, sound packs, or whatever else you crazy >> > > SourceMod kiddies do nowadays. >> > > >> > > People here are acting as if this some last stand situation. >> > > >> > > >> > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Game-Over > > > >wrote: >> > > >> > > > >> > > > We've spoken before via Email and as an honest server operator I have >> > > > followed your directions via email to the letter. >> > > > >> > > > So, Fletcher, please justify this ludicrous move you have now made to >> > > > Quickplay, after all of the support that we (us) genuine server >> owners >> > > have >> > > > given you in the past years. >> > > > >> > > > You chose this route rather than actually dealing with corrupt server >> > > > owners themselves, which we (on this mailing list) have asked you to >> do >> > > on >> > > > multiple occasions. >> > > > >> > > > Looking forward to your reply sir. >> > > > ___ >> > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >> > > > please visit: >> > > > https://list.va
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Maybe there is a point to take from this. Maybe the kind of people who played TF2 pre-F2P era, aren't the same people who want to play TF2 now? Demographics change, if you think the same type of people pick up TF2 today as the ones who paid money to pick it up pre-F2P, you might be in for a bit of a shock. Or not, look at your numbers, 50% of your population is just there because that's where they ended up, they didn't choose to be on your server. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Doctor McKay wrote: > Find me a vanilla server that remains populated without the help of > Quickplay. They don't exist. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get 47% quickplay > > traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server that might be > > twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled regulars from > > quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during peak), because > > of all your regulars? > > > > Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server they are > on-, > > and will never add your server to favorites as is? > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay > > wrote: > > > > > The cvar was actually added at the request of myself and several > others. > > > > > > I took the liberty to make a chart showing exactly what percent of my > > > players come from Quickplay. The result was disappointingly high: > > > http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png > > > > > > I don't expect any more than 20% of Quickplay users to uncheck the > > > "Official servers only" box. That means that I have lost around 40% of > my > > > traffic. My community is relatively popular, too. Smaller communities > or > > > communities that are just starting up will lose a lot more traffic > than I > > > will. > > > > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Robert Paulson < > thepauls...@gmail.com > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > It's quite obvious really. Valve only makes features to benefit > > > themselves > > > > or players, and cl_connectmethod was at face value did not do either > > one. > > > > > > > > They don't care about server owners having this knowledge unless it > > > > benefits them and didn't even bother to protect the convar from > > spoofing > > > by > > > > a using 1 convar flag. > > > > > > > > Its main purpose was to stop server owners from complaining about all > > the > > > > restrictions placed on quickplay on the flawed assumption that > > quickplay > > > is > > > > a tiny and unimportant part of your player base. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Doctor McKay > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > While I agree with what you are saying, what does cl_connectmethod > > have > > > > to > > > > > do with any of this? > > > > > On Jan 23, 2014 9:12 PM, "Robert Paulson" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > First they came for the custom attachments, and I did not speak > > out. > > > > > > Because I did not use it. > > > > > > Then they came for fast respawn, and I did not speak out. > Because I > > > did > > > > > not > > > > > > use it. > > > > > > Then they came for increased slots, and I did not speak out. > > Because > > > I > > > > > did > > > > > > not use it. > > > > > > Then they came for the MOTD, and I did not speak out. Because it > > > would > > > > > hurt > > > > > > others more than me. > > > > > > Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a repeat of the "Custom Tabs" fiasco. Except Valve > probably > > > > won't > > > > > > remove it this time because they can wave the evidence that a > > > minority > > > > of > > > > > > players use quickplay, despite the fact that quickplay has a > > monopoly > > > > on > > > > > > new players and without them your server is dead. Your current > > > players > > > > > > won't play TF2 forever. > > > > > > > > > > > > I saw this coming a mile away when Valve released the > > > cl_connectmethod > > > > > > convar. As I have said time and time again, Valve has obligations > > to > > > > > server > > > > > > owners as well as players. We, or at least I, bought TF2 > expecting > > > not > > > > > to > > > > > > have our hosting abilities crippled so much. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Doctor McKay < > > mc...@doctormckay.com > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding a "Valve servers only" checkbox (that's checked by > > default) > > > is > > > > > > going > > > > > > > to hurt enough (and only those communities that are playing by > > the > > > > > rules; > > > > > > > cheating communities will just steal *more* traffic from the > > > > legitimate > > > > > > > communities). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's now all but impossible to try to retain a client who > joined >
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Find me a vanilla server that remains populated without the help of Quickplay. They don't exist. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Gordon Reynolds < thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get 47% quickplay > traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server that might be > twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled regulars from > quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during peak), because > of all your regulars? > > Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server they are on-, > and will never add your server to favorites as is? > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay > wrote: > > > The cvar was actually added at the request of myself and several others. > > > > I took the liberty to make a chart showing exactly what percent of my > > players come from Quickplay. The result was disappointingly high: > > http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png > > > > I don't expect any more than 20% of Quickplay users to uncheck the > > "Official servers only" box. That means that I have lost around 40% of my > > traffic. My community is relatively popular, too. Smaller communities or > > communities that are just starting up will lose a lot more traffic than I > > will. > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Robert Paulson > >wrote: > > > > > It's quite obvious really. Valve only makes features to benefit > > themselves > > > or players, and cl_connectmethod was at face value did not do either > one. > > > > > > They don't care about server owners having this knowledge unless it > > > benefits them and didn't even bother to protect the convar from > spoofing > > by > > > a using 1 convar flag. > > > > > > Its main purpose was to stop server owners from complaining about all > the > > > restrictions placed on quickplay on the flawed assumption that > quickplay > > is > > > a tiny and unimportant part of your player base. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Doctor McKay > > > wrote: > > > > > > > While I agree with what you are saying, what does cl_connectmethod > have > > > to > > > > do with any of this? > > > > On Jan 23, 2014 9:12 PM, "Robert Paulson" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > First they came for the custom attachments, and I did not speak > out. > > > > > Because I did not use it. > > > > > Then they came for fast respawn, and I did not speak out. Because I > > did > > > > not > > > > > use it. > > > > > Then they came for increased slots, and I did not speak out. > Because > > I > > > > did > > > > > not use it. > > > > > Then they came for the MOTD, and I did not speak out. Because it > > would > > > > hurt > > > > > others more than me. > > > > > Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me. > > > > > > > > > > This is a repeat of the "Custom Tabs" fiasco. Except Valve probably > > > won't > > > > > remove it this time because they can wave the evidence that a > > minority > > > of > > > > > players use quickplay, despite the fact that quickplay has a > monopoly > > > on > > > > > new players and without them your server is dead. Your current > > players > > > > > won't play TF2 forever. > > > > > > > > > > I saw this coming a mile away when Valve released the > > cl_connectmethod > > > > > convar. As I have said time and time again, Valve has obligations > to > > > > server > > > > > owners as well as players. We, or at least I, bought TF2 expecting > > not > > > > to > > > > > have our hosting abilities crippled so much. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Doctor McKay < > mc...@doctormckay.com > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Why? > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding a "Valve servers only" checkbox (that's checked by > default) > > is > > > > > going > > > > > > to hurt enough (and only those communities that are playing by > the > > > > rules; > > > > > > cheating communities will just steal *more* traffic from the > > > legitimate > > > > > > communities). > > > > > > > > > > > > It's now all but impossible to try to retain a client who joined > > via > > > > > > Quickplay (and those are the clients we *need* to retain). We > can't > > > > show > > > > > > them our website. We can't even allow them to use a menu to jump > to > > > > > another > > > > > > one of our servers anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please think about what you're doing. If your intention is to > harm > > > the > > > > > good > > > > > > communities, you're doing a fine job at it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > > > > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > ___ > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > > > > please visit: > > > > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > > To
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
In my experience, 19% of people who join via Quickplay come back. That's not an insignificant number. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Gordon Reynolds < thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > If your players were only in your servers because of quickplay, they > probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity that is the > collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, etc), you were just > some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to "playing TF2". > > When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, never add you to > favorites, and may never show back up again. You could see this as "Valve > stealing your quickplay traffic" or you could see this as "Valve rounding > up the people who mash PLAYNOW and have no interest in dedicated servers, > or server communities". > > It's a changing demographic - people just want to play videogames, not > really sign up for a whole 'favorite server loyalty program'. > > And who cares if our servers "die out"? What are we out? Ego? > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Doctor McKay > wrote: > > > For lack of a better word, this is the last stand of community servers. > > > > The smaller communities that depend on Quickplay to gain popularity will > > die out. We'll be left with nothing but the already-large-and-established > > server chains, like Lotus, Skial, Saigns, and NighTeam. > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. > > > > > > I've yet to see a single sane suggestion on how they police bad servers > > > other than "have people report them", which sounds like a bad idea for > > many > > > hopefully obvious reasons. > > > > > > These are just video game servers; you aren't making money off them, if > > > they sit empty you aren't losing money off them either [more than the > > cost > > > of running the server, which you're already doing]. And if you are > > (making > > > or losing money), then I would say Valve wants to put those kind of > > servers > > > out, as they generally fart up the experience with donation requests, > or > > > donor perks, annoying MOTDs, sound packs, or whatever else you crazy > > > SourceMod kiddies do nowadays. > > > > > > People here are acting as if this some last stand situation. > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Game-Over > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > We've spoken before via Email and as an honest server operator I have > > > > followed your directions via email to the letter. > > > > > > > > So, Fletcher, please justify this ludicrous move you have now made to > > > > Quickplay, after all of the support that we (us) genuine server > owners > > > have > > > > given you in the past years. > > > > > > > > You chose this route rather than actually dealing with corrupt server > > > > owners themselves, which we (on this mailing list) have asked you to > do > > > on > > > > multiple occasions. > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply sir. > > > > ___ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get 47% quickplay traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server that might be twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled regulars from quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during peak), because of all your regulars? Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server they are on-, and will never add your server to favorites as is? On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay wrote: > The cvar was actually added at the request of myself and several others. > > I took the liberty to make a chart showing exactly what percent of my > players come from Quickplay. The result was disappointingly high: > http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png > > I don't expect any more than 20% of Quickplay users to uncheck the > "Official servers only" box. That means that I have lost around 40% of my > traffic. My community is relatively popular, too. Smaller communities or > communities that are just starting up will lose a lot more traffic than I > will. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Robert Paulson >wrote: > > > It's quite obvious really. Valve only makes features to benefit > themselves > > or players, and cl_connectmethod was at face value did not do either one. > > > > They don't care about server owners having this knowledge unless it > > benefits them and didn't even bother to protect the convar from spoofing > by > > a using 1 convar flag. > > > > Its main purpose was to stop server owners from complaining about all the > > restrictions placed on quickplay on the flawed assumption that quickplay > is > > a tiny and unimportant part of your player base. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Doctor McKay > > wrote: > > > > > While I agree with what you are saying, what does cl_connectmethod have > > to > > > do with any of this? > > > On Jan 23, 2014 9:12 PM, "Robert Paulson" > wrote: > > > > > > > First they came for the custom attachments, and I did not speak out. > > > > Because I did not use it. > > > > Then they came for fast respawn, and I did not speak out. Because I > did > > > not > > > > use it. > > > > Then they came for increased slots, and I did not speak out. Because > I > > > did > > > > not use it. > > > > Then they came for the MOTD, and I did not speak out. Because it > would > > > hurt > > > > others more than me. > > > > Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me. > > > > > > > > This is a repeat of the "Custom Tabs" fiasco. Except Valve probably > > won't > > > > remove it this time because they can wave the evidence that a > minority > > of > > > > players use quickplay, despite the fact that quickplay has a monopoly > > on > > > > new players and without them your server is dead. Your current > players > > > > won't play TF2 forever. > > > > > > > > I saw this coming a mile away when Valve released the > cl_connectmethod > > > > convar. As I have said time and time again, Valve has obligations to > > > server > > > > owners as well as players. We, or at least I, bought TF2 expecting > not > > > to > > > > have our hosting abilities crippled so much. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Doctor McKay > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Why? > > > > > > > > > > Adding a "Valve servers only" checkbox (that's checked by default) > is > > > > going > > > > > to hurt enough (and only those communities that are playing by the > > > rules; > > > > > cheating communities will just steal *more* traffic from the > > legitimate > > > > > communities). > > > > > > > > > > It's now all but impossible to try to retain a client who joined > via > > > > > Quickplay (and those are the clients we *need* to retain). We can't > > > show > > > > > them our website. We can't even allow them to use a menu to jump to > > > > another > > > > > one of our servers anymore. > > > > > > > > > > Please think about what you're doing. If your intention is to harm > > the > > > > good > > > > > communities, you're doing a fine job at it. > > > > > > > > > > Dr. McKay > > > > > www.doctormckay.com > > > > > ___ > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > > > please visit: > > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
Valve created steam groups, ways for people to join communities and many many people take advantage of this to be a part of something. This act of being a part of something adds depth to the game and that is what communities have to offer. This change Valve did needs to go - period. I'm with the rest here, there needs to be a response from Valve and soon not just do the norm of releasing an update and then go away for the weekend leaving everyone hanging. _ It's a changing demographic - people just want to play videogames, not really sign up for a whole 'favorite server loyalty program'. And who cares if our servers "die out"? What are we out? Ego? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
If your players were only in your servers because of quickplay, they probably do not care one iota about your Server (the entity that is the collection of your hardware, admins, regulars, plugins, etc), you were just some hallway that connected them from "not playing TF2" to "playing TF2". When their match is done and over, they hit disconnect, never add you to favorites, and may never show back up again. You could see this as "Valve stealing your quickplay traffic" or you could see this as "Valve rounding up the people who mash PLAYNOW and have no interest in dedicated servers, or server communities". It's a changing demographic - people just want to play videogames, not really sign up for a whole 'favorite server loyalty program'. And who cares if our servers "die out"? What are we out? Ego? On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Doctor McKay wrote: > For lack of a better word, this is the last stand of community servers. > > The smaller communities that depend on Quickplay to gain popularity will > die out. We'll be left with nothing but the already-large-and-established > server chains, like Lotus, Skial, Saigns, and NighTeam. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. > > > > I've yet to see a single sane suggestion on how they police bad servers > > other than "have people report them", which sounds like a bad idea for > many > > hopefully obvious reasons. > > > > These are just video game servers; you aren't making money off them, if > > they sit empty you aren't losing money off them either [more than the > cost > > of running the server, which you're already doing]. And if you are > (making > > or losing money), then I would say Valve wants to put those kind of > servers > > out, as they generally fart up the experience with donation requests, or > > donor perks, annoying MOTDs, sound packs, or whatever else you crazy > > SourceMod kiddies do nowadays. > > > > People here are acting as if this some last stand situation. > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Game-Over > >wrote: > > > > > > > > We've spoken before via Email and as an honest server operator I have > > > followed your directions via email to the letter. > > > > > > So, Fletcher, please justify this ludicrous move you have now made to > > > Quickplay, after all of the support that we (us) genuine server owners > > have > > > given you in the past years. > > > > > > You chose this route rather than actually dealing with corrupt server > > > owners themselves, which we (on this mailing list) have asked you to do > > on > > > multiple occasions. > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply sir. > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
For lack of a better word, this is the last stand of community servers. The smaller communities that depend on Quickplay to gain popularity will die out. We'll be left with nothing but the already-large-and-established server chains, like Lotus, Skial, Saigns, and NighTeam. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Gordon Reynolds < thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. > > I've yet to see a single sane suggestion on how they police bad servers > other than "have people report them", which sounds like a bad idea for many > hopefully obvious reasons. > > These are just video game servers; you aren't making money off them, if > they sit empty you aren't losing money off them either [more than the cost > of running the server, which you're already doing]. And if you are (making > or losing money), then I would say Valve wants to put those kind of servers > out, as they generally fart up the experience with donation requests, or > donor perks, annoying MOTDs, sound packs, or whatever else you crazy > SourceMod kiddies do nowadays. > > People here are acting as if this some last stand situation. > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Game-Over >wrote: > > > > > We've spoken before via Email and as an honest server operator I have > > followed your directions via email to the letter. > > > > So, Fletcher, please justify this ludicrous move you have now made to > > Quickplay, after all of the support that we (us) genuine server owners > have > > given you in the past years. > > > > You chose this route rather than actually dealing with corrupt server > > owners themselves, which we (on this mailing list) have asked you to do > on > > multiple occasions. > > > > Looking forward to your reply sir. > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
I'm not sure this is that big of a deal. I've yet to see a single sane suggestion on how they police bad servers other than "have people report them", which sounds like a bad idea for many hopefully obvious reasons. These are just video game servers; you aren't making money off them, if they sit empty you aren't losing money off them either [more than the cost of running the server, which you're already doing]. And if you are (making or losing money), then I would say Valve wants to put those kind of servers out, as they generally fart up the experience with donation requests, or donor perks, annoying MOTDs, sound packs, or whatever else you crazy SourceMod kiddies do nowadays. People here are acting as if this some last stand situation. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Game-Over wrote: > > We've spoken before via Email and as an honest server operator I have > followed your directions via email to the letter. > > So, Fletcher, please justify this ludicrous move you have now made to > Quickplay, after all of the support that we (us) genuine server owners have > given you in the past years. > > You chose this route rather than actually dealing with corrupt server > owners themselves, which we (on this mailing list) have asked you to do on > multiple occasions. > > Looking forward to your reply sir. > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] Fletcher - I'm Calling you Out On This (Enough is Enough)
We've spoken before via Email and as an honest server operator I have followed your directions via email to the letter. So, Fletcher, please justify this ludicrous move you have now made to Quickplay, after all of the support that we (us) genuine server owners have given you in the past years. You chose this route rather than actually dealing with corrupt server owners themselves, which we (on this mailing list) have asked you to do on multiple occasions. Looking forward to your reply sir. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Yeah, it was a 2-paragraph distillation of one person's view of the past 4-5 years of this game in his life. I'm sure some of the other people that were involved in the larger communities with large mod-bases at the time can back me up on the larger points. Of course the actual happenings were much more subtle and took many more steps than what I just said. The end results of each series of events was the same. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:24 PM, dan wrote: > On 24/01/2014 19:57, Rick Dunn wrote: > >> Everything you've said is perfectly relevant and 100% besides the point. >> You are talking to a list of people who have been running TF2 servers >> since >> its release. TF2 was built by Valve, came out, and was popular for about >> a >> year in its default format. When its charm had worn off, communities took >> it, modded it, added incentives such as hats, custom weapons, skins, in >> their mods, and built large playerbases from it. >> > > Ummm this is not really an accurate history of TF2 development. > > It reads like the Hollywood movie version of history. > > Just add an ending that makes the Americans win and sell > the script. > > > -- > Dan > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
It is extremely unlikely that Valve will have the box unchecked by default as they want players to know the difference between a official and unofficial server. But the problem still exists. A new player would not know the difference between a Valve and non-valve server. The check-box is simply "hidden from sight" for new, and casual/pub players. Many existing players are also unaware of the change, and do not even understand what the difference is. Accepting that Valve will unlikely have the box unchecked by default, I think it would be of huge benefit for non-official servers if a small notification is shown for the First Time a player EVER opens the quick-play menu (from the update). It should draw attention to where it is, and what it does/the difference is. In addition, adding a little color to the tick would also be nice, to draw more attention to it. And when a player's cursor hovers over the box/area, it would again say what it does/the difference is. This would at-least ensure quickplay users aren't completely unaware of the change and negligent of the check-box. > Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 13:22:18 -0500 > From: mc...@doctormckay.com > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to > alternate servers when players connect through quickplay > > You know what would solve the problem for good? Remove the ability for > third parties to host TF2 servers. Valve is already heading down that road > anyway. > > Obviously, I don't want this to happen, but if there's one thing that Valve > is good at, it's picking the nuclear solution to a problem. > On Jan 24, 2014 1:06 PM, "thesupremecommander" > wrote: > > > I actually sent an email to Valve about a week or so ago (back when this > > issue was just bubbling up) asking them to implement a CS:GO Overwatch-type > > system for TF2 servers. I still think that such a system is the best way to > > go without requiring Valve to manually police servers themselves, allowing > > community owners to still compete for QuickPlay traffic with servers both > > following the intent and the text of Valve's QuickPlay rules, and giving > > players the same unadulterated vanilla experience that they want. > > > > At the very least I'd like Valve to at least address the issue and discuss > > these changes with us instead of remaining completely silent. > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 12:56 PM, ics wrote: > > > > > Well it would be just better for them to care more about our time spent > > on > > > their game because customer service is lacking a hand here. A rating > > system > > > doesn't do any good because there are quickplay rules and it's ok to > > have a > > > crap server obeying them. That's the real problem and i think thats why > > > they added only official valve servers option, so players can seek and > > feel > > > the vanilla experience while playing instead of mod this, mod that, yadda > > > yadda crap. > > > > > > But this hits us, who run legitimate servers for fun and out of sincere > > > reasons the most. > > > > > > -ics > > > > > > Jake Forrester kirjoitti: > > > > > > What if one of us made a site specifically for rating TF2 communities > > >> and servers? We could quite literally provide a list of crappy servers > > >> by name + IP to them once a month. I imagine Valve does want the > > >> servers gone as much as we do, but if it's going to waste too much of an > > >> employee's time, it's not worth it to them. If we could hand them > > >> something that's manageable and could be dealt with in part of a day, > > >> maybe they'd be more willing to shut down (or even just penalize) those > > >> communities who aren't living up to the standards either of us want. > > >> > > >> On 1/24/2014 9:35 AM, ics wrote: > > >> > > >>> There are only 2 solutuins where one is good and one is tolerable. > > >>> > > >>> The good one would be removing all the crap servers from quickplay but > > >>> thats too much work for them. The tolerable option, since there is no > > >>> going back is to take that tick off from the box that makes people > > >>> search servers among official valve servers only by default. > > >>> > > >>> -ics > > >>> > > >>> Jake Forrester kirjoitti: > > >>> > > I don't generally post to this list, but I would like to add some > > statistics from my community. McKay already posted some of them, but > > here are some more numbers. > > > > We run 3 dedicated boxes, and about 20 total TF2 servers. Of those, > > 14 > > are quickplay. The quickplay servers are mostly vanilla, with some > > various donor perks that don't affect gameplay whatsoever. In the > > last > > month we have seen about***140,000 unique players* and *475,000 > > individual sessions*. We're not a gigantic community, but we're > > definitely not small either. At least 2500 players have > 24 hours of > > play time on our servers,
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
I think that's a wonderful idea! That's assuming of course Valve are taking an active interest and observation of this discussion. Fingers crossed they are. On 24 January 2014 20:43, Doctor McKay wrote: > Obviously, Valve wants new players to be able to try out the game without > ending up in some pay2win or other bad server. Why not just have popups > explaining the game when it's first launched? There's already a popup > pointing to the Mann Co. Store button (lol), why not label the other main > menu buttons as well? > > Play Multiplayer <-- [ Click this button to automatically find a server ] > Play Co-op <-- [ Click this button to play Mann vs. Machine ] > Servers <-- [ Click this button to search all available games based on your > own filters ] > > And when you open the server browser for the first time, point to the > filters, explain what they do, explain what tags are, etc. > > > Dr. McKay > www.doctormckay.com > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:24 PM, dan wrote: > > > On 24/01/2014 19:57, Rick Dunn wrote: > > > >> Everything you've said is perfectly relevant and 100% besides the point. > >> You are talking to a list of people who have been running TF2 servers > >> since > >> its release. TF2 was built by Valve, came out, and was popular for > about > >> a > >> year in its default format. When its charm had worn off, communities > took > >> it, modded it, added incentives such as hats, custom weapons, skins, in > >> their mods, and built large playerbases from it. > >> > > > > Ummm this is not really an accurate history of TF2 development. > > > > It reads like the Hollywood movie version of history. > > > > Just add an ending that makes the Americans win and sell > > the script. > > > > > > -- > > Dan > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Obviously, Valve wants new players to be able to try out the game without ending up in some pay2win or other bad server. Why not just have popups explaining the game when it's first launched? There's already a popup pointing to the Mann Co. Store button (lol), why not label the other main menu buttons as well? Play Multiplayer <-- [ Click this button to automatically find a server ] Play Co-op <-- [ Click this button to play Mann vs. Machine ] Servers <-- [ Click this button to search all available games based on your own filters ] And when you open the server browser for the first time, point to the filters, explain what they do, explain what tags are, etc. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:24 PM, dan wrote: > On 24/01/2014 19:57, Rick Dunn wrote: > >> Everything you've said is perfectly relevant and 100% besides the point. >> You are talking to a list of people who have been running TF2 servers >> since >> its release. TF2 was built by Valve, came out, and was popular for about >> a >> year in its default format. When its charm had worn off, communities took >> it, modded it, added incentives such as hats, custom weapons, skins, in >> their mods, and built large playerbases from it. >> > > Ummm this is not really an accurate history of TF2 development. > > It reads like the Hollywood movie version of history. > > Just add an ending that makes the Americans win and sell > the script. > > > -- > Dan > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
On 24/01/2014 19:57, Rick Dunn wrote: Everything you've said is perfectly relevant and 100% besides the point. You are talking to a list of people who have been running TF2 servers since its release. TF2 was built by Valve, came out, and was popular for about a year in its default format. When its charm had worn off, communities took it, modded it, added incentives such as hats, custom weapons, skins, in their mods, and built large playerbases from it. Ummm this is not really an accurate history of TF2 development. It reads like the Hollywood movie version of history. Just add an ending that makes the Americans win and sell the script. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
It's not that they don't read our messages here, but most probably *more that they choose not to respond* to our concerns or complaints as a group that majoritively agrees on the same thing (that this new feature is a big problem for loyal communities). I too am curious to know who the best department or person(s) are to email regarding this as well. On 24 January 2014 19:27, chris wrote: > What is the email address everyone uses to contact valve? I'd like to > voice my opinion in their inbox too since we aren't getting any official > responses on the mailing list. > > Another way to go about this could be: > > 1. The first time a player uses QP prompt them asking if they want to be > matched in Valve official servers or all servers. > or > 2. After X amount of QP searches prompt to be matched in all servers. > > Just some thoughts... I really hope Valve comes up with something that > works for everyone. > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 1:42 PM, px wrote: > > > Join the dark side, became non-Steam! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /*Trolling*/ > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Everything you've said is perfectly relevant and 100% besides the point. You are talking to a list of people who have been running TF2 servers since its release. TF2 was built by Valve, came out, and was popular for about a year in its default format. When its charm had worn off, communities took it, modded it, added incentives such as hats, custom weapons, skins, in their mods, and built large playerbases from it. The TF2 community rose up and expanded again based on these mods, and communities kept their servers up by having them as donator perks. The better communities (those who had weapons be free and donator perks be *only* cosmetic) prospered and everything was great for about another year, until the day when (some of you probably remember) those running communities with cosmetic donator perks were sent emails from Valve asking us to remove the cosmetic and custom items from our servers or have them blacklisted, as they were getting ready to release their own. The ENTIRE POINT of this discussion is that Valve released a game, it didn't do as well as counterstrike or half life, and the *COMMUNITIES* took it and molded it into something that people loved. Valve took the best ideas from those communities and monetized them. We lost any way to bring in donations to fund servers because the only donator perks we can offer is end-of-round immunity (whoop de doo). We lost our playerbase because the fun stuff that kept players on our servers was now built into the game. Quickplay was introduced, making us turn off more stuff to try and bring people in and keep them. It has been downhill from there. So pardon the hell out of me, I do indeed feel like I am a little bit entitled to have some support from the company that took the things we were offering to players and monetized them. I feel like I'm entitled to a small portion of the playerbase and I feel like I'm entitled to at least some answers from the people who made the decision. We are well over 50 replies into this thread and we have not yet heard back from them on ANY of the questions we've had since we found out that they have priority in QP during the halloween update. I feel like I'm entitled because without the communities, the game would have died off to everyone except the hardest-core comp players years ago. We helped build it, we helped maintain it, and now we're being crapped on from on high and feel like the LEAST we deserve is some freaking answers. Your being derisive towards everyone else here simply tells me you haven't been as invested into the game and the aspect of the community behind it as some of us. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:08 PM, dan wrote: > On 24/01/2014 18:04, thesupremecommander wrote: > >> I actually sent an email to Valve about a week or so ago (back when this >> issue was just bubbling up) asking them to implement a CS:GO >> Overwatch-type >> system for TF2 servers. I still think that such a system is the best way >> to >> go without requiring Valve to manually police servers themselves, allowing >> community owners to still compete for QuickPlay traffic with servers both >> following the intent and the text of Valve's QuickPlay rules, and giving >> players the same unadulterated vanilla experience that they want. >> > > I just joined a valve server with quickplay and 'official servers' checked > to play 2fort. > > The experience of joining is pretty good. Fast and I got a server with a > low ping > that played well. > > All I can say to the folks here is though, if you can't compete with a > Valve server, switch > off your servers and bake cakes to sell because you're in the wrong game. > > It was a complete farce. Barely anyone knew how to cap, where to cap, > or what the objectives were. Neither team had any defence, certainly no > engineers. > > I was told what I was doing was "impossible" (i.e shooting nades at people > and hitting them) > > So, relax. No one who sits facing the shiny side of their monitor > will be playing on Valve servers via quickplay for any length of time > because > the servers are swamped with the confused and bewildered. > > You can (as I have in the past) jump from valve server to valve server and > find a decent round, but you'd spend all day doing that with > the quickplay button joining random servers. > > Who knows, perhaps the official checkbox will mix up the player base and > change > that, but right now that doesn't appear to be the case. > -- > Dan > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
They read this list, many of them. -ics chris kirjoitti: What is the email address everyone uses to contact valve? I'd like to voice my opinion in their inbox too since we aren't getting any official responses on the mailing list. Another way to go about this could be: 1. The first time a player uses QP prompt them asking if they want to be matched in Valve official servers or all servers. or 2. After X amount of QP searches prompt to be matched in all servers. Just some thoughts... I really hope Valve comes up with something that works for everyone. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 1:42 PM, px wrote: Join the dark side, became non-Steam! /*Trolling*/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
The problem is that a very large portion of (ignorant) players prefer Valve servers for some asinine reason. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:08 PM, dan wrote: > On 24/01/2014 18:04, thesupremecommander wrote: > >> I actually sent an email to Valve about a week or so ago (back when this >> issue was just bubbling up) asking them to implement a CS:GO >> Overwatch-type >> system for TF2 servers. I still think that such a system is the best way >> to >> go without requiring Valve to manually police servers themselves, allowing >> community owners to still compete for QuickPlay traffic with servers both >> following the intent and the text of Valve's QuickPlay rules, and giving >> players the same unadulterated vanilla experience that they want. >> > > I just joined a valve server with quickplay and 'official servers' checked > to play 2fort. > > The experience of joining is pretty good. Fast and I got a server with a > low ping > that played well. > > All I can say to the folks here is though, if you can't compete with a > Valve server, switch > off your servers and bake cakes to sell because you're in the wrong game. > > It was a complete farce. Barely anyone knew how to cap, where to cap, > or what the objectives were. Neither team had any defence, certainly no > engineers. > > I was told what I was doing was "impossible" (i.e shooting nades at people > and hitting them) > > So, relax. No one who sits facing the shiny side of their monitor > will be playing on Valve servers via quickplay for any length of time > because > the servers are swamped with the confused and bewildered. > > You can (as I have in the past) jump from valve server to valve server and > find a decent round, but you'd spend all day doing that with > the quickplay button joining random servers. > > Who knows, perhaps the official checkbox will mix up the player base and > change > that, but right now that doesn't appear to be the case. > -- > Dan > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
What is the email address everyone uses to contact valve? I'd like to voice my opinion in their inbox too since we aren't getting any official responses on the mailing list. Another way to go about this could be: 1. The first time a player uses QP prompt them asking if they want to be matched in Valve official servers or all servers. or 2. After X amount of QP searches prompt to be matched in all servers. Just some thoughts... I really hope Valve comes up with something that works for everyone. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 1:42 PM, px wrote: > Join the dark side, became non-Steam! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /*Trolling*/ > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Unchecking the box by default is the only option aside from remove this added feature. Type up a bunch of a response all you want but my first reply to this is just that - it needs to go. Ohh chocolate cake tastes good and I just made one while running my servers :) _ I just joined a valve server with quickplay and 'official servers' checked to play 2fort. The experience of joining is pretty good. Fast and I got a server with a low ping that played well. All I can say to the folks here is though, if you can't compete with a Valve server, switch off your servers and bake cakes to sell because you're in the wrong game. It was a complete farce. Barely anyone knew how to cap, where to cap, or what the objectives were. Neither team had any defence, certainly no engineers. I was told what I was doing was "impossible" (i.e shooting nades at people and hitting them) So, relax. No one who sits facing the shiny side of their monitor will be playing on Valve servers via quickplay for any length of time because the servers are swamped with the confused and bewildered. You can (as I have in the past) jump from valve server to valve server and find a decent round, but you'd spend all day doing that with the quickplay button joining random servers. Who knows, perhaps the official checkbox will mix up the player base and change that, but right now that doesn't appear to be the case. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
On 24/01/2014 18:04, thesupremecommander wrote: I actually sent an email to Valve about a week or so ago (back when this issue was just bubbling up) asking them to implement a CS:GO Overwatch-type system for TF2 servers. I still think that such a system is the best way to go without requiring Valve to manually police servers themselves, allowing community owners to still compete for QuickPlay traffic with servers both following the intent and the text of Valve's QuickPlay rules, and giving players the same unadulterated vanilla experience that they want. I just joined a valve server with quickplay and 'official servers' checked to play 2fort. The experience of joining is pretty good. Fast and I got a server with a low ping that played well. All I can say to the folks here is though, if you can't compete with a Valve server, switch off your servers and bake cakes to sell because you're in the wrong game. It was a complete farce. Barely anyone knew how to cap, where to cap, or what the objectives were. Neither team had any defence, certainly no engineers. I was told what I was doing was "impossible" (i.e shooting nades at people and hitting them) So, relax. No one who sits facing the shiny side of their monitor will be playing on Valve servers via quickplay for any length of time because the servers are swamped with the confused and bewildered. You can (as I have in the past) jump from valve server to valve server and find a decent round, but you'd spend all day doing that with the quickplay button joining random servers. Who knows, perhaps the official checkbox will mix up the player base and change that, but right now that doesn't appear to be the case. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Join the dark side, became non-Steam! /*Trolling*/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
You know what would solve the problem for good? Remove the ability for third parties to host TF2 servers. Valve is already heading down that road anyway. Obviously, I don't want this to happen, but if there's one thing that Valve is good at, it's picking the nuclear solution to a problem. On Jan 24, 2014 1:06 PM, "thesupremecommander" wrote: > I actually sent an email to Valve about a week or so ago (back when this > issue was just bubbling up) asking them to implement a CS:GO Overwatch-type > system for TF2 servers. I still think that such a system is the best way to > go without requiring Valve to manually police servers themselves, allowing > community owners to still compete for QuickPlay traffic with servers both > following the intent and the text of Valve's QuickPlay rules, and giving > players the same unadulterated vanilla experience that they want. > > At the very least I'd like Valve to at least address the issue and discuss > these changes with us instead of remaining completely silent. > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 12:56 PM, ics wrote: > > > Well it would be just better for them to care more about our time spent > on > > their game because customer service is lacking a hand here. A rating > system > > doesn't do any good because there are quickplay rules and it's ok to > have a > > crap server obeying them. That's the real problem and i think thats why > > they added only official valve servers option, so players can seek and > feel > > the vanilla experience while playing instead of mod this, mod that, yadda > > yadda crap. > > > > But this hits us, who run legitimate servers for fun and out of sincere > > reasons the most. > > > > -ics > > > > Jake Forrester kirjoitti: > > > > What if one of us made a site specifically for rating TF2 communities > >> and servers? We could quite literally provide a list of crappy servers > >> by name + IP to them once a month. I imagine Valve does want the > >> servers gone as much as we do, but if it's going to waste too much of an > >> employee's time, it's not worth it to them. If we could hand them > >> something that's manageable and could be dealt with in part of a day, > >> maybe they'd be more willing to shut down (or even just penalize) those > >> communities who aren't living up to the standards either of us want. > >> > >> On 1/24/2014 9:35 AM, ics wrote: > >> > >>> There are only 2 solutuins where one is good and one is tolerable. > >>> > >>> The good one would be removing all the crap servers from quickplay but > >>> thats too much work for them. The tolerable option, since there is no > >>> going back is to take that tick off from the box that makes people > >>> search servers among official valve servers only by default. > >>> > >>> -ics > >>> > >>> Jake Forrester kirjoitti: > >>> > I don't generally post to this list, but I would like to add some > statistics from my community. McKay already posted some of them, but > here are some more numbers. > > We run 3 dedicated boxes, and about 20 total TF2 servers. Of those, > 14 > are quickplay. The quickplay servers are mostly vanilla, with some > various donor perks that don't affect gameplay whatsoever. In the > last > month we have seen about***140,000 unique players* and *475,000 > individual sessions*. We're not a gigantic community, but we're > definitely not small either. At least 2500 players have > 24 hours of > play time on our servers, and I don't really see those players > disappearing--at least not right off. > > Our community relies 100% on donations, so a temporary decrease in > quickplay traffic wont affect us at all in regards to keeping our > servers up (no ad revenue). But looking at our server list this > morning, I noticed that our Chicago system which usually has 7 servers > full around this time of day instead has 3. If we're unable to keep > our > servers full, I'm sure the donors will eventually start to dwindle as > well. > > Now there's no real way for community owners to fight back. Really > our > only defense is to post to the mailing list and hope our message is > read > by a Valve employee, but that alone doesn't create change. If we can > all band together behind a single solution though, it certainly > wouldn't > hurt our cause. > > That said, let's get the ball rolling on some ways we can help Valve > combat players getting matched into terrible quickplay servers, > without > ripping apart the communities which make this game so great. > > Here are a couple of my ideas: > > *1) Quickplay ID Grouping* > Have the ability to register a community/group ID to associate > different > quickplay IDs. This way if one server breaks the terms of service, > they > can all be shut down fairly easily. Of course, this incentivises good > communities to use this option, and t
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
I actually sent an email to Valve about a week or so ago (back when this issue was just bubbling up) asking them to implement a CS:GO Overwatch-type system for TF2 servers. I still think that such a system is the best way to go without requiring Valve to manually police servers themselves, allowing community owners to still compete for QuickPlay traffic with servers both following the intent and the text of Valve's QuickPlay rules, and giving players the same unadulterated vanilla experience that they want. At the very least I'd like Valve to at least address the issue and discuss these changes with us instead of remaining completely silent. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 12:56 PM, ics wrote: > Well it would be just better for them to care more about our time spent on > their game because customer service is lacking a hand here. A rating system > doesn't do any good because there are quickplay rules and it's ok to have a > crap server obeying them. That's the real problem and i think thats why > they added only official valve servers option, so players can seek and feel > the vanilla experience while playing instead of mod this, mod that, yadda > yadda crap. > > But this hits us, who run legitimate servers for fun and out of sincere > reasons the most. > > -ics > > Jake Forrester kirjoitti: > > What if one of us made a site specifically for rating TF2 communities >> and servers? We could quite literally provide a list of crappy servers >> by name + IP to them once a month. I imagine Valve does want the >> servers gone as much as we do, but if it's going to waste too much of an >> employee's time, it's not worth it to them. If we could hand them >> something that's manageable and could be dealt with in part of a day, >> maybe they'd be more willing to shut down (or even just penalize) those >> communities who aren't living up to the standards either of us want. >> >> On 1/24/2014 9:35 AM, ics wrote: >> >>> There are only 2 solutuins where one is good and one is tolerable. >>> >>> The good one would be removing all the crap servers from quickplay but >>> thats too much work for them. The tolerable option, since there is no >>> going back is to take that tick off from the box that makes people >>> search servers among official valve servers only by default. >>> >>> -ics >>> >>> Jake Forrester kirjoitti: >>> I don't generally post to this list, but I would like to add some statistics from my community. McKay already posted some of them, but here are some more numbers. We run 3 dedicated boxes, and about 20 total TF2 servers. Of those, 14 are quickplay. The quickplay servers are mostly vanilla, with some various donor perks that don't affect gameplay whatsoever. In the last month we have seen about***140,000 unique players* and *475,000 individual sessions*. We're not a gigantic community, but we're definitely not small either. At least 2500 players have > 24 hours of play time on our servers, and I don't really see those players disappearing--at least not right off. Our community relies 100% on donations, so a temporary decrease in quickplay traffic wont affect us at all in regards to keeping our servers up (no ad revenue). But looking at our server list this morning, I noticed that our Chicago system which usually has 7 servers full around this time of day instead has 3. If we're unable to keep our servers full, I'm sure the donors will eventually start to dwindle as well. Now there's no real way for community owners to fight back. Really our only defense is to post to the mailing list and hope our message is read by a Valve employee, but that alone doesn't create change. If we can all band together behind a single solution though, it certainly wouldn't hurt our cause. That said, let's get the ball rolling on some ways we can help Valve combat players getting matched into terrible quickplay servers, without ripping apart the communities which make this game so great. Here are a couple of my ideas: *1) Quickplay ID Grouping* Have the ability to register a community/group ID to associate different quickplay IDs. This way if one server breaks the terms of service, they can all be shut down fairly easily. Of course, this incentivises good communities to use this option, and the troll/spam/greedy ones not to use it. I think that's fine. Prioritize traffic of those communities who have > 2 servers on the same group ID, and make it a little bit harder to start out without a community ID (sorry new folks, but I don't see an elegant solution here for you). *2) User-based voting* For all users matched through quickplay, have them actually rate the server they were connected to once they leave. A simple 1-5 star system and a "flag as abusive" button to start a ticket woul
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Well it would be just better for them to care more about our time spent on their game because customer service is lacking a hand here. A rating system doesn't do any good because there are quickplay rules and it's ok to have a crap server obeying them. That's the real problem and i think thats why they added only official valve servers option, so players can seek and feel the vanilla experience while playing instead of mod this, mod that, yadda yadda crap. But this hits us, who run legitimate servers for fun and out of sincere reasons the most. -ics Jake Forrester kirjoitti: What if one of us made a site specifically for rating TF2 communities and servers? We could quite literally provide a list of crappy servers by name + IP to them once a month. I imagine Valve does want the servers gone as much as we do, but if it's going to waste too much of an employee's time, it's not worth it to them. If we could hand them something that's manageable and could be dealt with in part of a day, maybe they'd be more willing to shut down (or even just penalize) those communities who aren't living up to the standards either of us want. On 1/24/2014 9:35 AM, ics wrote: There are only 2 solutuins where one is good and one is tolerable. The good one would be removing all the crap servers from quickplay but thats too much work for them. The tolerable option, since there is no going back is to take that tick off from the box that makes people search servers among official valve servers only by default. -ics Jake Forrester kirjoitti: I don't generally post to this list, but I would like to add some statistics from my community. McKay already posted some of them, but here are some more numbers. We run 3 dedicated boxes, and about 20 total TF2 servers. Of those, 14 are quickplay. The quickplay servers are mostly vanilla, with some various donor perks that don't affect gameplay whatsoever. In the last month we have seen about***140,000 unique players* and *475,000 individual sessions*. We're not a gigantic community, but we're definitely not small either. At least 2500 players have > 24 hours of play time on our servers, and I don't really see those players disappearing--at least not right off. Our community relies 100% on donations, so a temporary decrease in quickplay traffic wont affect us at all in regards to keeping our servers up (no ad revenue). But looking at our server list this morning, I noticed that our Chicago system which usually has 7 servers full around this time of day instead has 3. If we're unable to keep our servers full, I'm sure the donors will eventually start to dwindle as well. Now there's no real way for community owners to fight back. Really our only defense is to post to the mailing list and hope our message is read by a Valve employee, but that alone doesn't create change. If we can all band together behind a single solution though, it certainly wouldn't hurt our cause. That said, let's get the ball rolling on some ways we can help Valve combat players getting matched into terrible quickplay servers, without ripping apart the communities which make this game so great. Here are a couple of my ideas: *1) Quickplay ID Grouping* Have the ability to register a community/group ID to associate different quickplay IDs. This way if one server breaks the terms of service, they can all be shut down fairly easily. Of course, this incentivises good communities to use this option, and the troll/spam/greedy ones not to use it. I think that's fine. Prioritize traffic of those communities who have > 2 servers on the same group ID, and make it a little bit harder to start out without a community ID (sorry new folks, but I don't see an elegant solution here for you). *2) User-based voting* For all users matched through quickplay, have them actually rate the server they were connected to once they leave. A simple 1-5 star system and a "flag as abusive" button to start a ticket would be great. If a user has already rated that server, show their previous vote and allow them to change it. By not allowing the same user to repeatedly vote on the same server would help cut back on people down-voting other communities just to get more traffic sent to their own. This can work with the first idea to rank communities as a whole. So if you run a solid community and launch a new server, it wont be so hard to fill it up. You've proven your worth, and you shouldn't need to do it with every server launch. But if you run a poor community, it will affect all your servers. *3) Un-check the box *Everyone else said it. Don't pick valve servers for people by default. I think it's totally fine to have that option available, but pulling all the players away who don't really understand what that means doesn't seem fair. I believe new players are already being matched to Valve servers with super high priority, until they spend a few hours in the game and get a feel for what a 100% vanilla, un
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
No one cares enough to go to some website and do that. There's already blacklists that people can import and those have no effect on the servers listed there. And on top of that we couldn't expect some third party website like that to be impartial. A system created by valve in the game itself would work better and be more fair. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Jake Forrester wrote: > What if one of us made a site specifically for rating TF2 communities > and servers? We could quite literally provide a list of crappy servers > by name + IP to them once a month. I imagine Valve does want the > servers gone as much as we do, but if it's going to waste too much of an > employee's time, it's not worth it to them. If we could hand them > something that's manageable and could be dealt with in part of a day, > maybe they'd be more willing to shut down (or even just penalize) those > communities who aren't living up to the standards either of us want. > > On 1/24/2014 9:35 AM, ics wrote: > > There are only 2 solutuins where one is good and one is tolerable. > > > > The good one would be removing all the crap servers from quickplay but > > thats too much work for them. The tolerable option, since there is no > > going back is to take that tick off from the box that makes people > > search servers among official valve servers only by default. > > > > -ics > > > > Jake Forrester kirjoitti: > >> I don't generally post to this list, but I would like to add some > >> statistics from my community. McKay already posted some of them, but > >> here are some more numbers. > >> > >> We run 3 dedicated boxes, and about 20 total TF2 servers. Of those, 14 > >> are quickplay. The quickplay servers are mostly vanilla, with some > >> various donor perks that don't affect gameplay whatsoever. In the last > >> month we have seen about***140,000 unique players* and *475,000 > >> individual sessions*. We're not a gigantic community, but we're > >> definitely not small either. At least 2500 players have > 24 hours of > >> play time on our servers, and I don't really see those players > >> disappearing--at least not right off. > >> > >> Our community relies 100% on donations, so a temporary decrease in > >> quickplay traffic wont affect us at all in regards to keeping our > >> servers up (no ad revenue). But looking at our server list this > >> morning, I noticed that our Chicago system which usually has 7 servers > >> full around this time of day instead has 3. If we're unable to keep our > >> servers full, I'm sure the donors will eventually start to dwindle as > >> well. > >> > >> Now there's no real way for community owners to fight back. Really our > >> only defense is to post to the mailing list and hope our message is read > >> by a Valve employee, but that alone doesn't create change. If we can > >> all band together behind a single solution though, it certainly wouldn't > >> hurt our cause. > >> > >> That said, let's get the ball rolling on some ways we can help Valve > >> combat players getting matched into terrible quickplay servers, without > >> ripping apart the communities which make this game so great. > >> > >> Here are a couple of my ideas: > >> > >> *1) Quickplay ID Grouping* > >> Have the ability to register a community/group ID to associate different > >> quickplay IDs. This way if one server breaks the terms of service, they > >> can all be shut down fairly easily. Of course, this incentivises good > >> communities to use this option, and the troll/spam/greedy ones not to > >> use it. I think that's fine. Prioritize traffic of those communities > >> who have > 2 servers on the same group ID, and make it a little bit > >> harder to start out without a community ID (sorry new folks, but I don't > >> see an elegant solution here for you). > >> > >> *2) User-based voting* > >> For all users matched through quickplay, have them actually rate the > >> server they were connected to once they leave. A simple 1-5 star system > >> and a "flag as abusive" button to start a ticket would be great. If a > >> user has already rated that server, show their previous vote and allow > >> them to change it. By not allowing the same user to repeatedly vote on > >> the same server would help cut back on people down-voting other > >> communities just to get more traffic sent to their own. This can work > >> with the first idea to rank communities as a whole. So if you run a > >> solid community and launch a new server, it wont be so hard to fill it > >> up. You've proven your worth, and you shouldn't need to do it with > >> every server launch. But if you run a poor community, it will affect > >> all your servers. > >> > >> *3) Un-check the box > >> *Everyone else said it. Don't pick valve servers for people by > >> default. I think it's totally fine to have that option available, but > >> pulling all the players away who don't really understand what that means > >> doesn't seem fair. I believe new players
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
What if one of us made a site specifically for rating TF2 communities and servers? We could quite literally provide a list of crappy servers by name + IP to them once a month. I imagine Valve does want the servers gone as much as we do, but if it's going to waste too much of an employee's time, it's not worth it to them. If we could hand them something that's manageable and could be dealt with in part of a day, maybe they'd be more willing to shut down (or even just penalize) those communities who aren't living up to the standards either of us want. On 1/24/2014 9:35 AM, ics wrote: > There are only 2 solutuins where one is good and one is tolerable. > > The good one would be removing all the crap servers from quickplay but > thats too much work for them. The tolerable option, since there is no > going back is to take that tick off from the box that makes people > search servers among official valve servers only by default. > > -ics > > Jake Forrester kirjoitti: >> I don't generally post to this list, but I would like to add some >> statistics from my community. McKay already posted some of them, but >> here are some more numbers. >> >> We run 3 dedicated boxes, and about 20 total TF2 servers. Of those, 14 >> are quickplay. The quickplay servers are mostly vanilla, with some >> various donor perks that don't affect gameplay whatsoever. In the last >> month we have seen about***140,000 unique players* and *475,000 >> individual sessions*. We're not a gigantic community, but we're >> definitely not small either. At least 2500 players have > 24 hours of >> play time on our servers, and I don't really see those players >> disappearing--at least not right off. >> >> Our community relies 100% on donations, so a temporary decrease in >> quickplay traffic wont affect us at all in regards to keeping our >> servers up (no ad revenue). But looking at our server list this >> morning, I noticed that our Chicago system which usually has 7 servers >> full around this time of day instead has 3. If we're unable to keep our >> servers full, I'm sure the donors will eventually start to dwindle as >> well. >> >> Now there's no real way for community owners to fight back. Really our >> only defense is to post to the mailing list and hope our message is read >> by a Valve employee, but that alone doesn't create change. If we can >> all band together behind a single solution though, it certainly wouldn't >> hurt our cause. >> >> That said, let's get the ball rolling on some ways we can help Valve >> combat players getting matched into terrible quickplay servers, without >> ripping apart the communities which make this game so great. >> >> Here are a couple of my ideas: >> >> *1) Quickplay ID Grouping* >> Have the ability to register a community/group ID to associate different >> quickplay IDs. This way if one server breaks the terms of service, they >> can all be shut down fairly easily. Of course, this incentivises good >> communities to use this option, and the troll/spam/greedy ones not to >> use it. I think that's fine. Prioritize traffic of those communities >> who have > 2 servers on the same group ID, and make it a little bit >> harder to start out without a community ID (sorry new folks, but I don't >> see an elegant solution here for you). >> >> *2) User-based voting* >> For all users matched through quickplay, have them actually rate the >> server they were connected to once they leave. A simple 1-5 star system >> and a "flag as abusive" button to start a ticket would be great. If a >> user has already rated that server, show their previous vote and allow >> them to change it. By not allowing the same user to repeatedly vote on >> the same server would help cut back on people down-voting other >> communities just to get more traffic sent to their own. This can work >> with the first idea to rank communities as a whole. So if you run a >> solid community and launch a new server, it wont be so hard to fill it >> up. You've proven your worth, and you shouldn't need to do it with >> every server launch. But if you run a poor community, it will affect >> all your servers. >> >> *3) Un-check the box >> *Everyone else said it. Don't pick valve servers for people by >> default. I think it's totally fine to have that option available, but >> pulling all the players away who don't really understand what that means >> doesn't seem fair. I believe new players are already being matched to >> Valve servers with super high priority, until they spend a few hours in >> the game and get a feel for what a 100% vanilla, un-moderated server is >> like. Good! Keep doing that. Just don't grab the players who aren't >> new to the game, but haven't learned how to connect anywhere without >> quickplay button. >> >> ~ rann >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/lis
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
I also wanted to quickly point out that according to McKay's graph (http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png), quickplayers are mostly free-to-play folks. This means that Valve has made absolutely no money on them in regards to TF2. The people who are using the community market and buying things in the Mann Co Store are the ones who generally play on community servers. The whole "I want to look cool in-game" business model doesn't really work on people who are constantly playing with randoms. Users need to get matched to community servers in order for them to regularly play with the same people, make in-game friends, and ultimately buy items. I'm sure Valve has more statistics on that that we do, but from what where I sit, this decision seems somewhat silly. Maybe their hopes are that less people will use the quickplay system, which could totally happen, but not before a bunch of good communities die out due to lack of traffic. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
There are only 2 solutuins where one is good and one is tolerable. The good one would be removing all the crap servers from quickplay but thats too much work for them. The tolerable option, since there is no going back is to take that tick off from the box that makes people search servers among official valve servers only by default. -ics Jake Forrester kirjoitti: I don't generally post to this list, but I would like to add some statistics from my community. McKay already posted some of them, but here are some more numbers. We run 3 dedicated boxes, and about 20 total TF2 servers. Of those, 14 are quickplay. The quickplay servers are mostly vanilla, with some various donor perks that don't affect gameplay whatsoever. In the last month we have seen about***140,000 unique players* and *475,000 individual sessions*. We're not a gigantic community, but we're definitely not small either. At least 2500 players have > 24 hours of play time on our servers, and I don't really see those players disappearing--at least not right off. Our community relies 100% on donations, so a temporary decrease in quickplay traffic wont affect us at all in regards to keeping our servers up (no ad revenue). But looking at our server list this morning, I noticed that our Chicago system which usually has 7 servers full around this time of day instead has 3. If we're unable to keep our servers full, I'm sure the donors will eventually start to dwindle as well. Now there's no real way for community owners to fight back. Really our only defense is to post to the mailing list and hope our message is read by a Valve employee, but that alone doesn't create change. If we can all band together behind a single solution though, it certainly wouldn't hurt our cause. That said, let's get the ball rolling on some ways we can help Valve combat players getting matched into terrible quickplay servers, without ripping apart the communities which make this game so great. Here are a couple of my ideas: *1) Quickplay ID Grouping* Have the ability to register a community/group ID to associate different quickplay IDs. This way if one server breaks the terms of service, they can all be shut down fairly easily. Of course, this incentivises good communities to use this option, and the troll/spam/greedy ones not to use it. I think that's fine. Prioritize traffic of those communities who have > 2 servers on the same group ID, and make it a little bit harder to start out without a community ID (sorry new folks, but I don't see an elegant solution here for you). *2) User-based voting* For all users matched through quickplay, have them actually rate the server they were connected to once they leave. A simple 1-5 star system and a "flag as abusive" button to start a ticket would be great. If a user has already rated that server, show their previous vote and allow them to change it. By not allowing the same user to repeatedly vote on the same server would help cut back on people down-voting other communities just to get more traffic sent to their own. This can work with the first idea to rank communities as a whole. So if you run a solid community and launch a new server, it wont be so hard to fill it up. You've proven your worth, and you shouldn't need to do it with every server launch. But if you run a poor community, it will affect all your servers. *3) Un-check the box *Everyone else said it. Don't pick valve servers for people by default. I think it's totally fine to have that option available, but pulling all the players away who don't really understand what that means doesn't seem fair. I believe new players are already being matched to Valve servers with super high priority, until they spend a few hours in the game and get a feel for what a 100% vanilla, un-moderated server is like. Good! Keep doing that. Just don't grab the players who aren't new to the game, but haven't learned how to connect anywhere without quickplay button. ~ rann ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
I don't generally post to this list, but I would like to add some statistics from my community. McKay already posted some of them, but here are some more numbers. We run 3 dedicated boxes, and about 20 total TF2 servers. Of those, 14 are quickplay. The quickplay servers are mostly vanilla, with some various donor perks that don't affect gameplay whatsoever. In the last month we have seen about***140,000 unique players* and *475,000 individual sessions*. We're not a gigantic community, but we're definitely not small either. At least 2500 players have > 24 hours of play time on our servers, and I don't really see those players disappearing--at least not right off. Our community relies 100% on donations, so a temporary decrease in quickplay traffic wont affect us at all in regards to keeping our servers up (no ad revenue). But looking at our server list this morning, I noticed that our Chicago system which usually has 7 servers full around this time of day instead has 3. If we're unable to keep our servers full, I'm sure the donors will eventually start to dwindle as well. Now there's no real way for community owners to fight back. Really our only defense is to post to the mailing list and hope our message is read by a Valve employee, but that alone doesn't create change. If we can all band together behind a single solution though, it certainly wouldn't hurt our cause. That said, let's get the ball rolling on some ways we can help Valve combat players getting matched into terrible quickplay servers, without ripping apart the communities which make this game so great. Here are a couple of my ideas: *1) Quickplay ID Grouping* Have the ability to register a community/group ID to associate different quickplay IDs. This way if one server breaks the terms of service, they can all be shut down fairly easily. Of course, this incentivises good communities to use this option, and the troll/spam/greedy ones not to use it. I think that's fine. Prioritize traffic of those communities who have > 2 servers on the same group ID, and make it a little bit harder to start out without a community ID (sorry new folks, but I don't see an elegant solution here for you). *2) User-based voting* For all users matched through quickplay, have them actually rate the server they were connected to once they leave. A simple 1-5 star system and a "flag as abusive" button to start a ticket would be great. If a user has already rated that server, show their previous vote and allow them to change it. By not allowing the same user to repeatedly vote on the same server would help cut back on people down-voting other communities just to get more traffic sent to their own. This can work with the first idea to rank communities as a whole. So if you run a solid community and launch a new server, it wont be so hard to fill it up. You've proven your worth, and you shouldn't need to do it with every server launch. But if you run a poor community, it will affect all your servers. *3) Un-check the box *Everyone else said it. Don't pick valve servers for people by default. I think it's totally fine to have that option available, but pulling all the players away who don't really understand what that means doesn't seem fair. I believe new players are already being matched to Valve servers with super high priority, until they spend a few hours in the game and get a feel for what a 100% vanilla, un-moderated server is like. Good! Keep doing that. Just don't grab the players who aren't new to the game, but haven't learned how to connect anywhere without quickplay button. ~ rann ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
On 24/01/2014 15:08, Rudy Bleeker wrote: On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:27 AM, dan wrote: Why add all the incentives to win MvM and none for the multiplayer and, worse, make those MvM prizes hurt the multiplayer objectives even more? The answer to this is simple. Official MvM mode where you get those prizes, aka Mann-Up, still makes Valve money with the sale of tickets and surplus vouchers, where as community servers or even their own quickplay servers don't really since you can buy your hats and other items for MvM as well as the 'normal' game. That's not the answer - that's the question. Why hasn't valve added incentives and tickets to the MP game? To me personally MvM doesn't seem to require skill or at least not the skills that I would care about learning. So I've not really bothered. It's like L4D it's "we can't do good ai, so we'll just do a lot of ai and ramping up "difficulty" just means the AI need more shots to kill them" I get why some people enjoy it, but I want the things I throw nades at to wiggle the mouse a bit and make it at least something of a challenge - I want missing to be an option. Rather than a tank you can't miss requiring tons of nades spammed at it or a group of bots all running along in a straight line, straight into your shots. You could kill tanks the same way you can play keyboards for pink floyd songs, by taping the keys down and going to fetch a coffee while the guitarist has fun. But I'd buy tickets for a MP version - or even a single player version that required more skill and less attrition. If tickets make money and mean that there will be servers with people actually trying to win for a change, it'd be good. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
As it has become common now. Instead of actually fixing the underlying problem they go for the nuclear quickfix option. Quickplay was flawed to begin with. A server with a new quickplay id and server ip can get full and stay full soon as it goes up if fake players are used. Such completely new and untrusted servers should not have been getting priority over established ones. There were people on this very list saying how their QP traffic died up and then they just created a new QP id and it came back. Another thing to note is that valve's servers are completely un-moderated and don't always have good performance. Votes are often abused. Hackers are harder to get rid of as well. There's also no real community presence on valve servers. You can't just pick a valve server and meet with regulars there. You can't even expect that valve server to stay up. Sometimes they go down for weeks or switch to Mann Up. Why not have a trusted server option for quickplay? Have someone at valve (or even possibly the players themselves through some means) approve servers and make sure these ones match valve's goals for quickplay. In the end it's not like valve will even have all their servers up and properly maintained all the time. I'm sure they will decrease the number again when they feel like it. And by then there might not be enough vanilla community servers around to handle the surplus traffic properly. Which can lead to players being sent to less vanilla servers like during other bigger updates. Halloween being one example where quickplay was sending players to unregistered servers as well as servers running more than 24 slots. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:08 AM, Rudy Bleeker wrote: > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:27 AM, dan wrote: > > Why add all the incentives to win MvM and none for the multiplayer and, > > worse, > > make those MvM prizes hurt the multiplayer objectives even more? > > The answer to this is simple. Official MvM mode where you get those > prizes, aka Mann-Up, still makes Valve money with the sale of tickets > and surplus vouchers, where as community servers or even their own > quickplay servers don't really since you can buy your hats and other > items for MvM as well as the 'normal' game. > > As for the rest of the discussion, I would argue that Valve has chosen > to dumb down the whole TF2 experience for new and existing players to > a one-button solution and this is just the latest step towards that > goal (maybe even the last). From that you could conclude that they > don't give a damn about communities anymore, I don't really have an > opinion about that. Fact is that they now have more control over the > player experience, which seems to be what they want so I doubt they'll > revert this change. > > > > -- > Idleness is not doing nothing. Idleness is being free to do anything. > - Floyd Dell > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
On 24/01/2014 04:47, Chris Oryschak wrote: We can all just play on valve servers but you are failing to realize that we are the ones that made TF2 better. Playing vanilla with no sense of community, added benefits; stats, incentives, contests that some of us run make TF2 enjoyable to keep coming back to play. We are added value that helps keep TF2 interesting. Self evidently not if you're worried about this. You've listed 2 words "benefits, incentives" - that aren't actually concrete things. Besides, Valve could do benefits, incentives and run contests, is that really a competition you want? They could add stats easily enough if they wanted to and if they made sense (but the stats TF2 servers use are nonsensical anyway) It still doesn't answer the basic question - why does everyone here think they are entitled to players on their server? I tell you the main reason I would stop playing TF2 on pub servers, it's because the pub community isn't interested in playing the game. It's just dull playing on servers that have the same set of disinterested players all the time that don't play to win. I notice this most of all when Valve take their servers away for whatever reason (halloween for e.g) I join servers with 24 people that are simply not playing. I suppose the comp community is the answer here, but there's a lot of hassle and organisation required to get 6v6 and you end up (at least my son did when he did it) spending more time organising 12 people to all turn up at the same time on the same server as you do actually playing. And I don't want that hassle, but I would play on servers that had people who wanted to win on them. I don't mean they play sniper and use the option to vote to scramble if their team is losing or switch teams if they think red has the better players. I mean people who want to win and play to that end, win or lose. That would be a community worth joining. But no one has afaict created that community, or tried to create that community. I don't see these communities of servers and servers and players that are making the game great. I just see a group of people that run what they they think they need to make money and to feel like they're in charge of a bunch of people. e.g If I look down MrMcKay's list of plugins he's written on his website, it seems many of them are concerned with exercising control over people or invading their privacy. Whether it's faking convars or letting admins impersonate players, or seeing who they have muted. There's nothing there to make the game better from the player's perspective. For sure, you can say some of these things are needed, but there's no evidence of people adding benefits to the game. No evidence of to them showing Valve how it should be done. Perhaps a few people who run one server, but, because everyone else is running loads of servers they are wasting their time unless they have a group of friends that will join and play. Because the TF2 player base doesn't magically increase because you run a server or 100. It's like trying to trade in TF2 with 1 account. People came along that created 20+ accounts - and that didn't make them rich like they hoped. They just got the same money but now they are doing 20x the work that they did before. Greed just caused the value of items in the economy to nose dive. Running servers for the same sized player base is no different. There's no more money to be had by increasing the number of servers you run. There aren't more players magically created and any buffoon can run lots of servers, there's no barrier to entry - and there really is very few out there, if any, with the imagination to actually make their servers better. I think valve have created a bit of a monster. A community of people who used to play a game, but now don't want to do anything now unless it makes them money - even if it costs them more money to buy what they need to make that money. The people that run piles and piles of servers are just doing that. They aren't creating community and if they are, well Valve must be too with their servers, because they are doing the same thing. Unless you're suggesting that plugins make a community because that's the only real difference between valve's servers and most of the others. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 5:27 AM, dan wrote: > Why add all the incentives to win MvM and none for the multiplayer and, > worse, > make those MvM prizes hurt the multiplayer objectives even more? The answer to this is simple. Official MvM mode where you get those prizes, aka Mann-Up, still makes Valve money with the sale of tickets and surplus vouchers, where as community servers or even their own quickplay servers don't really since you can buy your hats and other items for MvM as well as the 'normal' game. As for the rest of the discussion, I would argue that Valve has chosen to dumb down the whole TF2 experience for new and existing players to a one-button solution and this is just the latest step towards that goal (maybe even the last). From that you could conclude that they don't give a damn about communities anymore, I don't really have an opinion about that. Fact is that they now have more control over the player experience, which seems to be what they want so I doubt they'll revert this change. -- Idleness is not doing nothing. Idleness is being free to do anything. - Floyd Dell ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
I agree with this 100% - WHY?? Having this to start with is a community killer then you tack on having it checked by default. I don't think Valve understands that without the support of communities the player counts for games like TF2 will start to diminish much faster, faster than they can produce more pointless additions to the game. My only hope is this change is reverted asap and the future shows more community support well before they release a new character to play as. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Doctor McKay Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 8:12 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay Why? Adding a "Valve servers only" checkbox (that's checked by default) is going to hurt enough (and only those communities that are playing by the rules; cheating communities will just steal *more* traffic from the legitimate communities). It's now all but impossible to try to retain a client who joined via Quickplay (and those are the clients we *need* to retain). We can't show them our website. We can't even allow them to use a menu to jump to another one of our servers anymore. Please think about what you're doing. If your intention is to harm the good communities, you're doing a fine job at it. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to
Have we already forgotten the quickplay shenanigans from valve during the most recent Halloween event? This is just more of the same. They've already made their stance abundantly clear to communities. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to
I completely agree. You're not the only one, there's many complaints/objections over this, but Valve probably will put deaf ears on them (this is normally what has happened in the past with other changes they implemented). I'd be surprised if many QP run communities remain open now, they might change map to a non-QP one, the game they host, or just close and give up. Perhaps this is Valve's intention, to rid of QP reliant community servers and run them by themselves. On 24 January 2014 07:34, Miika Laaksonen wrote: > What? This option is actually enabled by default? > > This is actually going to be really bad for us, I started hosting TF2 > servers about two years ago. Since then our > community has grown a lot, but not enough to keep stable player counts on > our servers when compared to a lot > older communities/servers. The quickplay has been a god-send for us, we > have a large enough community to get > the quickplay going, so it has saved our servers. Now without it, I fear > that our servers are pretty much going > to die because of this. > > Didn't the quickplay option at one point send players by default to Valve > servers if they had low playtime in TF2? > Was it removed or is it still there? I don't mind having the players an > option to enable this, but being that it is > enabled by default, it really brings a major problem to small and new > communities. > > When I started playing TF2, I absolutely hated those modded servers, so my > goal has always to run servers as > Vanilla and have a friendly and relaxing atmosphere. Just yesterday a > player told me that this is the best server > she has played on and that makes it all worthwhile to host these servers. > Now this is the first time I actually fear > that our servers are done for. > > - Miika > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
Unfortunately despite most of us objecting to this change, I doubt Valve will change their stand on it. We've had other objections over changes in the past with Valve not saying a single word in response, I'm almost certain Valve will turn deaf ears on our objections once again, I get the impression that they don't seem to really care for the community servers anymore and are making good attempts at driving them away little by little, the very servers which (for the most part anyway) made Team Fortress 2 populated and gave it recognition. Now it seems it has population and recognition, it feels as if they're making efforts to ditch community run servers and do it by themselves. In a basic summary, this is just another bodged quick fix method to dealing with servers that aren't really vanilla or completely following their (Valve) QP requirements, rather than actually doing something useful for the majority of community servers (which are playing fair) about such servers (which aren't playing fair). "If one isn't alright, then we'll pretty much punish everyone including the one that isn't alright". Also @Kyle, I don't see how ads are related to this change. Ads were blocked on Quickplay connecting clients way before this update. Quickplay is really just a bad implementation imo. Return to the good ol' days where we had to use the server browser, we found unique communities and explored more of them that way, than most newcomers would bother doing these days because of QP. My two cents. I'm sure someone will disagree with me though - lol. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
All my "quickplay" servers died, and i aint exactly tiny, but all my custom servers still do just fine but a "all maps 1" server is never full anymore. Even an x3 map with no quickplay is always full.. i have no clue where they are coming from these days. But as any community i do it for the community and for the fun. (not for the money, as i see the main reason why quickplay went this way with people setting up 100 servers just to farm with ads) 2014/1/24 Valentin G. > I can't actually believe people are still defending this decision. > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 4:31 AM, Mike jons > wrote: > > > I completely agree Dan. I am just a small community with a couple > servers, > > but the population went straight down the drain after this patch. They > > would normally be full this time of night. My servers are vanilla and as > > plain as they almost get besides having sourcemod for admin on there. No > > extra modifications or any of that. Yet, Valve doesn't realize that this > > will kill off a bunch of the smaller guys because of the lack of players > > now. > > > > > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 21:34:11 -0500 > > > From: ch...@oryschak.com > > > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players > > to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay > > > > > > Dan, > > > > > > That's only ~1/2 my player slots filled when it's normally near full > > > capacity thanks to quickplay filling in the gaps. I'm a community that > > has > > > been around for a long time and couldn't imagine anyone starting out to > > try > > > to build themselves now. > > > > > > These numbers are after an update release that (everyone knows) > provides > > a > > > much larger influx of players on your server for that day. > > > > > > At least 5 yrs ago when we all started running servers there was no > > > quickplay that instantly stole players; it was fair game for everyone - > > as > > > they all used the gamebrowser to find the server of choice. Now QP > takes > > > in probably close to 50%+ of the player traffic that is now 99% going > to > > > Valve's servers. > > > > > > This is crippling for everyone. As Robert has said, i have never spoken > > out > > > on all the previous changes but this was the last kick at the cat and > > feel > > > i need to voice my concerns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 9:09 PM, dan wrote: > > > > > > > On 24/01/2014 01:24, Chris Oryschak wrote: > > > > > > > >> I currently have 235 players on my servers right now, of all of > those > > only > > > >> 23 players are from quickplay. > > > >> > > > > > > > > What difference will this change make to you then? > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
I can't actually believe people are still defending this decision. On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 4:31 AM, Mike jons wrote: > I completely agree Dan. I am just a small community with a couple servers, > but the population went straight down the drain after this patch. They > would normally be full this time of night. My servers are vanilla and as > plain as they almost get besides having sourcemod for admin on there. No > extra modifications or any of that. Yet, Valve doesn't realize that this > will kill off a bunch of the smaller guys because of the lack of players > now. > > > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 21:34:11 -0500 > > From: ch...@oryschak.com > > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players > to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay > > > > Dan, > > > > That's only ~1/2 my player slots filled when it's normally near full > > capacity thanks to quickplay filling in the gaps. I'm a community that > has > > been around for a long time and couldn't imagine anyone starting out to > try > > to build themselves now. > > > > These numbers are after an update release that (everyone knows) provides > a > > much larger influx of players on your server for that day. > > > > At least 5 yrs ago when we all started running servers there was no > > quickplay that instantly stole players; it was fair game for everyone - > as > > they all used the gamebrowser to find the server of choice. Now QP takes > > in probably close to 50%+ of the player traffic that is now 99% going to > > Valve's servers. > > > > This is crippling for everyone. As Robert has said, i have never spoken > out > > on all the previous changes but this was the last kick at the cat and > feel > > i need to voice my concerns. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 9:09 PM, dan wrote: > > > > > On 24/01/2014 01:24, Chris Oryschak wrote: > > > > > >> I currently have 235 players on my servers right now, of all of those > only > > >> 23 players are from quickplay. > > >> > > > > > > What difference will this change make to you then? > > > > > > -- > > > Dan > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to alternate servers when players connect through quickplay
I completely agree Dan. I am just a small community with a couple servers, but the population went straight down the drain after this patch. They would normally be full this time of night. My servers are vanilla and as plain as they almost get besides having sourcemod for admin on there. No extra modifications or any of that. Yet, Valve doesn't realize that this will kill off a bunch of the smaller guys because of the lack of players now. > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 21:34:11 -0500 > From: ch...@oryschak.com > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to > alternate servers when players connect through quickplay > > Dan, > > That's only ~1/2 my player slots filled when it's normally near full > capacity thanks to quickplay filling in the gaps. I'm a community that has > been around for a long time and couldn't imagine anyone starting out to try > to build themselves now. > > These numbers are after an update release that (everyone knows) provides a > much larger influx of players on your server for that day. > > At least 5 yrs ago when we all started running servers there was no > quickplay that instantly stole players; it was fair game for everyone - as > they all used the gamebrowser to find the server of choice. Now QP takes > in probably close to 50%+ of the player traffic that is now 99% going to > Valve's servers. > > This is crippling for everyone. As Robert has said, i have never spoken out > on all the previous changes but this was the last kick at the cat and feel > i need to voice my concerns. > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 9:09 PM, dan wrote: > > > On 24/01/2014 01:24, Chris Oryschak wrote: > > > >> I currently have 235 players on my servers right now, of all of those only > >> 23 players are from quickplay. > >> > > > > What difference will this change make to you then? > > > > -- > > Dan > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Prevent game servers from redirecting players to
What? This option is actually enabled by default? This is actually going to be really bad for us, I started hosting TF2 servers about two years ago. Since then our community has grown a lot, but not enough to keep stable player counts on our servers when compared to a lot older communities/servers. The quickplay has been a god-send for us, we have a large enough community to get the quickplay going, so it has saved our servers. Now without it, I fear that our servers are pretty much going to die because of this. Didn't the quickplay option at one point send players by default to Valve servers if they had low playtime in TF2? Was it removed or is it still there? I don't mind having the players an option to enable this, but being that it is enabled by default, it really brings a major problem to small and new communities. When I started playing TF2, I absolutely hated those modded servers, so my goal has always to run servers as Vanilla and have a friendly and relaxing atmosphere. Just yesterday a player told me that this is the best server she has played on and that makes it all worthwhile to host these servers. Now this is the first time I actually fear that our servers are done for. - Miika ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
