Re: [Hornlist] Re: Horn supervisor blog

[Herbert Foster]

You're not the only one who has problems with blue on black.

Herb Foster




From: Sean Kirkpatrick 
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 4:17:33 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Horn supervisor blog

Too bad, the color scheme is simply not readable to my eyes. I'd read it 
otherwise.

   Sean
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Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe

[Herbert Foster]

Surely you jest. I thought you have to be crazy to keep playing the horn.
Herb Foster




From: Anne Megenity 
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:01:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe

Yes- I agree. Health problems happen to hornfolk,too. Mental problems,not so 
much?
- Original Message - From: "Lawrence Yates" 

To: "The Horn List" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] NHR Healthcare in Europe


> I would be interested to see this discussion continued on-list.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Lawrence
> -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk
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Re: [Hornlist]. Conductor's. Was Confusing transposition

[Herbert Foster]

I was playing in an amateur orchestra where everyone was getting lost in a 
contemporary piece that was free-flowing with no definite rythm. The conductor 
waved the stick in a free-flowing style trying to "emote." I respectfully asked 
him--I even played the senior citizen card--to give a definite downbeat at the 
beginning of each measure so I could count rests. He looked at me very startled 
and asked, "EVERY measure?" Would you believe that on the day of the concert, 
in the pre-concert rehearsal, he was still trying to get everyone to come in 
together? I spent many hours listening to a recording and writing in cues. I 
did make every entrance.

Herb Foster




From: "lewho...@yahoo.com" 
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:44:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist]. Conductor's.  Was Confusing transposition

Ah yes, Scott. To be young and still think that most conductors are infallable 
and that they are god... 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I can tell stories and I don't play at the 
level that Hans and others on this forum have worked. I personally have worked 
under conductors that in some cases were totally clueless. 

Some of our colleagues on this list in the Metropolitan area where I reside 
(the name of the community shall remain nameless to protect the innocent, lol) 
know of a certain conductor that if you watched him, you were sure to get lost 
when he conducted a piece in three that really was in four. I am not joking!

He also liked to play John Williams' music at a VERY slow tempo. I have said he 
couldn't conduct his way out of a paper bag. 

Now that my colleagues from my area are hopefully chuckling, I withdraw 
probably to be flamed. 

Walt Lewis
--Original Message--
From: scott...@msn.com
Sender: horn-bounces+lewhorn9=yahoo@music.memphis.edu
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
ReplyTo: The Horn List
Subject: FW: [Hornlist] Confusing transposition (double post)
Sent: Aug 17, 2009 4:15 PM


Walt Lewis wrote:
Won't that infuriate most conductors, even those that are so bad they can't 
conduct electricity let alone Wagner, Mendelssohn, Brahms et al?

My question is how do you know they cannot conduct electricity unless you 
try... hard.
Respectfully Submitted,
Scott Young


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Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


  
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)

[Herbert Foster]

Since my interest is more technical, the first Google hit I got was wackypedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Lobachevsky
He was a famous mathematician.

I am impressed that you were the recording engineer. I have the record. I don't 
remember "Boulder, Boulder," though I do remember "The Masochism Tango," which 
isn't on your list.

Horn related: Other recording artists from that era who recorded horn related 
songs were Flanders and Swan, and Anna Russel. Flanders and Swan recorded "Ill 
Wind" to the K495 Rondo. Anna Russel did some hilarious songs about the horn 
("The orchestra is divided into .. the scrape section, the blow section and the 
bang section") and the Ring ("I'm not making this up, you know"). I shouldn't 
play these CDs while I am driving: I lose control from laughing.

Herb Foster




From: "Glick, Ed" 
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2009 10:32:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)

I don't recall "Boulder, Boulder". but I think it's possible that he made 
another recording at a later date. The recording I made was in 1953. The 10" LP 
(remember those? Only if you're really old!) has the TransRadio (the name of 
our studio) label on it and the songs are copyrighted 1952, 1953. The songs on 
Side 1 are: "Fight Fiercely, Harvard," "The Old Dope Peddler," "Be Prepared," 
"The Wild West," "I Wanna Go Back to Dixie, "Lobachevsky." On Side 2 were "The 
Irish Ballad,""The Hunting Song," "My Home Town," "When You Are Old and Gray," 
"I Hold Your Hand in Mine," and the Wiener Schnitzel Waltz." 

As I said, I don't remember anything with "Boulder, Boulder" in it. I'll listen 
to the disc again to check, but I believe it must have been on a later 
[commercial] recording that duplicated some of the songs from the original 
disc. We cut a master from the tape I made and Lehrer sold those records 
himself. (His address was printed on the back of the album cover.)

Of all the songs on the disc (all original), "Lobachevsky" was the one that 
really didn't fit in with the style of the others. I was told that Lehrer, who 
was a teaching fellow in Math at Harvard at the time, composed and recorded the 
song to appeal to fellow mathematicians and believed he could sell a few more 
to them with this song. (Lobachevsky was a famous mathematician known to all in 
that field - I think)

I remember that during the heyday of "That Was the Week that Was" on tv, Lehrer 
had a regularly recurring spot on the program. I don't know how long that 
lasted.

Ed Glick

P.S. I thought I would be smart and googled "Lobachevsky, hoping to find out 
something about Lobachevsky. I quit after finding 20 pages just of Lehrer's 
"Lobachevsky" song. There were many more.

-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu 
[mailto:horn-bounces+glick=unt@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gross
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:32 PM
To: 'The Horn List'
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Recording

Me too, I still have the copy my father bought.  I can't remember the lead
it, but side one ends with him saying "Mighty, mighty, Boulder Boulder. . .
" you flip it over and the first word on side 2 is "dam."  At that time,
late 50s early 60s that was pushing the limits.

". . . Do not shade your eyes, but plagiarize. . . and who deserves the
credit, who deserve the fame?  Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky was name."



-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of
Richard V. West
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:21 PM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording

Hey, I'm impressed! In my youth (just a few years younger than you, Ed),
Lehrer was the MAN! "I hold your hand in mine dear, though you are far
away" Ah, the beauty of it all.

Richard in Seattle

Glick, Ed wrote:
> Incidentally, although I'm sure you're younger than I am (83 - me, not 
> you), but you may be of the generation that heard (or heard of) the 
> recording by Tom Lehrer. ("Be prepared, that's the Boy Scout marching 
> song," "Lobachevsky," etc.). If you know of this recording, you may 
> (or may not) be impressed that I was the engineer on the original 
> recording. (Of course, if you've never heard of it, you probably won't 
> be.)
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Re: [Hornlist] Recording

[Herbert Foster]

I find the Zoom H2 perfectly satisfactory not only for recording myself, but 
for recording concerts. I don't have any problem with hiss with an external 
mic. If you want to be fancy and use a mic with phantom power, get the H4.

Herb Foster




From: Robert N. Ward 
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:46:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Recording

Have a look here:

http://www.transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200703_recorder_reviews/

Lots of reviews and examples.

B



**
Robert N. Ward
Principal Horn
San Francisco Symphony
rnw...@comcast.net





On Jul 30, 2009, at 4:40 PM, Allen Smithson wrote:

> Hello All,I'm currently shopping for a recording device so I can quickly 
> listen to practice sessions, lessons, auditions, and so on. I've been reading 
> some reviews on digital recording devices but I'm worried that these devices 
> will work great for voice recording and horribly for recording a horn. What 
> do you all use/like? Any help would greatly appreciated.Thanks,Allen
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Hornlist] Receiver size on Selman double horn

[Herbert Foster]

Thank you, John, for setting us straight. "Ventura" bothered me subliminally. 
Giovanni Battista Venturi was Italian, so shouldn't the singular be venturo, or 
is it one ventura, two venture ?-)

Herb Foster





From: John Kowalchuk 
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 1:08:31 AM
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Receiver size on Selman double horn

Every time this subject comes up I wonder about the symantics.  Is it
venturi or ventura?

I finally spent five seconds looking it up and learned Giovanni Battista
Venturi (1746-1822) discovered the venturi effect which is named after him.
So it is one venturi, several venturis.

I have accomplished my task of learning something new today so I am going to
bed now.

John Kowalchuk
Maker of mutes/horns/canoes/paddles/bikes
Oshawa, Ontariohttp://kowalchukmutes.com

Canadians don't surf the net, we paddle it.


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Re: [Hornlist] Rare horn piece to be performed

[Herbert Foster]

Am there, doing that. I belong to the South Orange Symphony Orhestra--three 
letter abbreviation, though four is no better. Usually we don't need help, 
though.

Herb foster





From: David Goldberg 
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:14:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Rare horn piece to be performed

Loren Mayhew wrote:
> It seems that 2-letter abbreviations work for state and country
> abbreviations, 3-letter abbreviations are sufficient worldwide for baggage
> claim tickets, but orchestras need 4-letter abbreviations. That is why my
> orchestra is abbreviated SASO (Southern Arizona Symphony Orchestra). You
> might think "symphony" and "orchestra" are redundant words but it makes our
> abbreviation necessary and unique.
>  

orchestra of Southern Arizona, Tucson and Beyond is so close: the SATB orchestra

  - - - and - - -

what, under this framework, would the poor folks of Southern Ohio or Southern 
Oregon call their Symphony Orchestra for short?


David Goldberg

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Re: [Hornlist] New Acoustical Testing of the Horn

[Herbert Foster]

Ah hah! That must be the clam production area. Over how many 100,000ths of an 
inch does it extend?

Will there be a demonstration at KBHC?
Herb Foster




From: "kendallbe...@aol.com" 
To: h...@yahoogroups.com; horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2009 5:46:59 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] New Acoustical Testing of the Horn

Dear Hornlisters,

I am very excited about the news I will convey to you  here and now!

...
At 138.22996" (where my hand  rests in the 
yellow brass bell flare) the picture was a cloudy, clammy gray on  both sides 
of the horn! 
...



  
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Eric Hauser's Horn?

[Herbert Foster]

I like Ellen Stone's look. "What am I doing here? Hurry up and take that 
picture."

Herb Foster





From: Carl Ek 
To: Hornlist memphis 
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:44:24 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Eric Hauser's Horn? 

Dear Hornlisters, From the look Eric Hauser is giving in that photo, he seems 
to be rather puzzled too ! Carl Ek Ahhh..Spring in Mooselip 
!!=Dick Martz wrote: Hi, Guys: I'm puzzled by a horn in 
a photo of Eric Hauser:http://www.rjmartz.com/horns/HauserIt looks to me to be 
a single B-Flat horn with a fourth valve perhaps intendedas an F extension, 
however the lengths of the third and fourth valve slides  seemwrong. Both 
appear to be too long for a normal third valve slide for a B-flathorn and too 
short for an F extension. Actually the fourth valve looks aboutright for an F 
horn third valve. Any ideas? Also, does anyone recognize the other two people 
in the photo? Thanks, Dick Martz
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Re: [Hornlist] Archaic Kimchee

[Herbert Foster]

Good one, Kendall. You're right, though. I heard from another hired gun who has 
already attended a rehearsal that the lone high school hornist is inexperienced 
and not confident. Now the trick is to have her have a successful learning 
experience.

Herb Foster





From: "kendallbe...@aol.com" 
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:42:18 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] Archaic Kimchee

Confucius say: "Herb who sub in youth orchestra Foster learning amongst  
young players."

HF wrote: <<  I often wonder what the audience thinks of my  white beard and 
hair when I fill in the horn section in the mostly Chinese youth  orchestra.  
>>
**Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001)
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Re: [Hornlist] Cabbage on the Road

[Herbert Foster]

I often wonder what the audience thinks of my white beard and hair when I fill 
in the horn section in the mostly Chinese youth orchestra.

Herb Foster





From: David Laraway 
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:30:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Cabbage on the Road

Oh Cruciferous One,
You come to my home town and are NOT performing on natural horn. Could that 
possibly mean you are performing on an unnatural horn (maybe even a GMO horn?)
I'm amazed that I hadn't heard about you coming here since I play in 2 local 
symphonies and I hadn't heard about this. What will be your venue and time?
Just now looking at the newmediatoolkit site I see it is a "Playing with Ideas" 
conference, again, something I hadn't heard about.

(I also fill in the brass section in the local youth symphony, but considering 
my age, that would cause me to sign myself as..)
Well Aged Kimchee
(Usually known as David Laraway)

horncabb...@aol.com wrote:
> During the next two weeks, list members will enjoy two opportunities to miss 
> Professor Cabbage deliver his overly familiar talk on the physics of brass 
> musical instruments.   The first will be this Wednesday evening,
> March 25, in San Marcos, California, wherever that is.   Then on Friday,
> April 3, the Cruciferous One will bring his road show to Shasta College in 
> Redding, California, wherever that is.   If, by some unlucky chance, you are
> only able to miss one of these talks, then the one in San Marcos would
> be a good choice, since the Peripatetic One will not be performing
> on natural horn at Shasta College.
> 
> Details, including escape maps and lists of excuses, may be found
> at the following sites:
> 
> http://www.csusm.edu/communications/articles/PhysicsBrassMusical.html
> http://www.newmediatoolkit.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&;
> id=48:holmesbio&catid=34:bios&Itemid=54
> 
> Gotta go,
> Cabbage
> 
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Re: [Hornlist] Eric Hauser's Horn?

[Herbert Foster]

Some have thought the 3rd slide is the correct 3 half step length. However, 
maybe it's 4 half steps--major third. This would give the dedicated 
finger-wiggling Bb hornist many options...

Herb Foster





From: Dick Martz 
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 5:36:37 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] Eric Hauser's Horn?

Hi, Guys: 

I'm puzzled by a horn in a photo of Eric Hauser:
http://www.rjmartz.com/horns/Hauser/ 

It looks to me to be a single B-Flat horn with a fourth valve perhaps intended 
as an F extension, however the lengths of the third and fourth valve slides 
seem wrong. Both appear to be too long for a normal third valve slide for a 
B-flat horn and too short for an F extension. Actually the fourth valve looks 
about right for an F horn third valve. Any ideas?

Also, does anyone recognize the other two people in the photo?

Thanks,

Dick Martz
--

http://www.rjmartz.com/horns  Horn Collection

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Re: [Hornlist] Jonathan West got it right!

[Herbert Foster]

The brand of oil/slide grease does make a difference. Case in point being my 
former 8D and my current Finke.

On the 8D Rotor brand oil, with its anticorrosion agent worked beautifully. 
Howerver, it stopped my Finke plastic valves cold. Now, Johannes Finke says not 
to use any oil on the valves. Ken Pope disagrees, and after seeing the green 
carbonate that I had Ken take out, I agree with Ken. I currently use deodorized 
lamp oil with some sewing machine oil in it. I blow it through the horn (after 
snaking out the leadpipe). When the valves start slowing down, I repeat the 
process. In the interim I drop the oil down the valve tubes with bottle with a 
lo-o-ong spout. I'm not sure that Ken agrees with my regimen, but it works for 
me, and there's no green in the valve area when I peek down the valve slides. 
Slide grease? Professor Gestopftmitscheisst axle grease.

BTW, the reason for the oil in the lamp oil is that the lamp oil (kerosene) 
evaporates quickly, leaving the oil to protect the brass. Eventually the lamp 
oil evaporates in the valves, and they start getting slower. Time to repeat.

Herb Foster





From: Jonathan West 
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 7:06:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Jonathan West got it right!

2009/3/21 Alexander Guziel :
> You can put the oil in the slides then keep the oil in the bottom, then put
> it in all the way, and turn it over so it doesn't touch anything

It will touch something, since as I mentioned there will be grease
attached to the inside of the tubing which has been pushed to just
beyond the maximum insertion point of the slides.

Now, it may be that your particular combination of oil and slide
grease is such that the grease hardly dissolves at all in the oil, in
which case you're OK irrespective of the way you get the oil there. I
prefer not to take a chance on it, as I suspect that there are cases
where a sludge of oil and dissolved grease has slowed up valves.

Regards
Jonathan West
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Re: [Hornlist] Ice horn

[Herbert Foster]

Well, that's one way to ice sore lips. Hasn't ice been used as a filler for 
bending tubing?

Herb Foster





From: Brass Arts Unlimited 
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:30:07 AM
Subject: [Hornlist] Ice horn

As seen on Reuters, perhaps we've found the next great "alloy" for making
bell flares.  Kendall Betts can do an acoustic study and let us know the
results.

http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/rpSlideshows?articleId=USRTXBS1Q#a=4

or

*http://tinyurl.com/cyjrd2*


-- 
Regards,

Dave Weiner
Brass Arts Unlimited
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Re: [hornlist]Inauguration picture

[Herbert Foster]

Antiphonal horn section! Once our band had the horns and tubas at opposite 
ends, and the result was stereo ping pong oomp--pah. Anyone 
remember ping pong in stereo?

Herb Foster





From: John Baumgart 
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Friday, February 6, 2009 9:38:11 PM
Subject: RE: [hornlist]Inauguration picture

The odd shape of the stage probably had something to do with it.

John Baumgart

-Original Message-
From: horn-bounces+john.baumgart=comcast@music.memphis.edu
[mailto:horn-bounces+john.baumgart=comcast@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf
Of Herbert Foster
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 11:55 AM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [hornlist]Inauguration picture

There are horns on the near side next to the tubas, and there are horns on
the opposite side next to the trombones. What sort of arrangement is that,
and who plays what?

Herb Foster


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Re: [Hornlist] Doubling instruments

[Herbert Foster]

Bare hands don't cause tarnish. They do leave oils on the brass, which cause 
uneven tarnishing. Those of us who are acidic (green hands) can cause 
corrosion. The handbells community worries about such things changing tuning 
and looks.

Herb Foster





From: Jeremy Cucco 
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2009 1:40:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Doubling instruments

Did you take the time to explain to them that they do not need to worry about 
wearing the white gloves and that the tarnish induced is an layer of gases that 
actually protects the finish of the bell?  Then, did you show them your 
gloriously unlacquered horn as proof? 
Carlisle Landel wrote:
> So there I was, subbing on 4th for the local community orchestra.  (I got the 
> plea for me to sub with two rehearsals to go, including dress.)  One piece 
> was a premiere of an orchestral arrangement of a piece that included 
> handbells.  It was dress rehearsal  and it turned out that there weren't 
> enough handbell players to cover the parts. The percussionists were otherwise 
> occupied.  The third and fourth horns were sitting out for this piece, so I 
> volunteered to play the handbell in G.
> 
> Yep.
> 
> It's official.
> 
> I am now a ringer!
> 
> Carlisle
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Re: [hornlist]Inauguration picture

[Herbert Foster]

There are horns on the near side next to the tubas, and there are horns on the 
opposite side next to the trombones. What sort of arrangement is that, and who 
plays what?

Herb Foster





From: Simon Varnam 
To: Leonard & Peggy Brown 
Cc: horn list memphis 
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2009 8:37:32 PM
Subject: Re: [hornlist]Inauguration picture

Incredible!! You can almost read their parts!
I'm curious about the three people to the left (as viewed) of the horns, who 
have no instruments. Surely it doesn't take three to operate a fire 
extinguisher.
:-)
Simon

On 2009/02/06, at 10:21, Leonard & Peggy Brown wrote:

> 
> - Original Message - From: "Simon Varnam" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 6:25 PM
> Subject: Re:[hornlist]
> 
> 
>> I'm afraid the picture didn't get through the system. :-(
>> If it's online could you tell us the URL, please?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Simon
>> 
>>> message: 4
>>> date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 19:30:36 -0600
>>> from: "Leonard & Peggy Brown" 
>>> subject: [Hornlist] inauguration day
>>> 
>>> Here is a really nice picture of the inauguratoin a few weeks ago.   The 
>>> neat
>>> thing is that you can zoom in for great detail.  Forget about the  people on
>>> stage, there is the Marine Corp. horn section in full cold glory  right 
>>> under
>>> Mr. Obama.
>>> (That is the USMC band isn't it?)
>>> 
>>> Mark Q, your still in the band?
>>> 
>>> LLB
> 
> Simon,
>  Other than the fact I didn't include the address I can't understand why you 
> can't see the picture.  Thanks for your note.  Oh, it is the USMC band I can 
> see the globe and anchor on their covers.
> 
> http://gigapan.org/viewGigapanFullscreen.php?auth=033ef14483ee899496648c2b4b06233c
> 
> LLB

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Re: [Hornlist] RE: Dent Bags

[Herbert Foster]

But then you'd have to place a warning sign: Warning, this product may contain 
peanuts. Of course the allergy itself is no joking matter.

If horn cases were made of softer foam, the horn would be better protected, but 
you'd have to replace the case after a drop. In the course of commuting to work 
for several years, I have replaced my bicycle helmet several times. Cheaper 
than heads.

Herb Foster





From: "horncabb...@aol.com" 
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Monday, February 2, 2009 1:57:34 AM
Subject: [Hornlist] RE: Dent Bags

James M wrote

I once read about a science teacher assigning a problem to his class.
The  problem was to design a case or package to have a hen egg
dropped from third story window to the side walk below without
damage to the egg. Two students solved the problem.
Perhaps instead off getting an engineer to do the job, give the job to
high school students to protect  the horn.
Just a thought.

***
I used to sponsor Physics Olympics at San Jose State.   Students
from local high schools would compete in various events.   One
involved encasing a raw egg so that it would be undamaged after
falling 15 meters.   Parachutes were not allowed.   Generally,
about half the entries were successful, so we awarded prizes
to the smallest, lightest containers.   One year a successful entrant 
dropped their egg inside a jar of peanut butter.   I think that
would be the ideal way to protect a horn.

Gotta go,
Cabbage



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Re: [Hornlist] "Dent" bags

[Herbert Foster]

How are the hinges? I had to repair mine after 5 years when the screws pulled 
out of the cardboard composition shell, but I'm harder on things than my 
daughter (see previous post). Other than that I've been quite satisfied with 
the Thompson Edition case. I hope they've improved the design. A piece of wood 
for the screws to screw into would do it.

It's very comfortable in back pack configuration.

Herb Foster





From: Jerry Houston 
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 5:13:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] "Dent" bags

On Sunday 01 February 2009 13:14:31 valkh...@aol.com wrote:
> Maybe I'm missing something, but I believe he's made his objection  quite
> clear numerous times in every e-mail he's sent.  Weight and form  factor are
> the objections.  Frankly, if I had a fixed bell horn, I  would object to hard
> cases for the same reasons.  However, I've used  some gig bags in the past on
> my detachable bell horns and have almost  always had bad luck regarding
> dents.

I have Thompson Edition cases in both fixed- and cut-bell versions, and I like 
'em a lot.  So far, they've provided complete protection to my horns, yet 
they're comfortable to carry.  And compared with other compact and protective 
cases, they're not expensive.  It's been a while, but I seem to recall that 
mine were about $250 each.
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Re: [Hornlist] "Dent" bags

[Herbert Foster]

That's true. I have a daughter for whom we bought a new trombone, with case 
when she was in middle school. 17 years later it is in pristine condition. She 
has used it constantly and traveled the world with it. She's also good at 
sweet-talking her trombone on board airliners with her.

Herb Foster





From: "valkh...@aol.com" 
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 4:14:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] "Dent" bags


Thanks.

I also might add that some people could use no case and would have a  
dent-free horn, while others would manage to dent their horn even if it was 
safe  in 
a Sherman tank.

-William

In a message dated 2/1/2009 4:12:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jer...@sublymerecords.com writes:

Lawrence  - 
Maybe I'm missing something, but I believe he's made his objection  quite
clear numerous times in every e-mail he's sent.  Weight and form  factor are
the objections.  Frankly, if I had a fixed bell horn, I  would object to hard
cases for the same reasons.  However, I've used  some gig bags in the past on
my detachable bell horns and have almost  always had bad luck regarding
dents.

The one notable exception is  the Reunion Blues leather gig bag, which, in my
opinion, offers better  protection than many fixed bell cases.

Cheers-  
Jeremy


  
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Re: [Hornlist] RE: Donato

[Herbert Foster]

As I have said, I prefer style to vulgarity. For stress and anxiety, I take a 
dose of Florence Foster Jenkins (no relation).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtf2Q4yyuJ0


Here the accompanist has to change keys on the fly (not a diptera or zipper, 
Cabbage)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExSlVoQ0e5c&feature=related

Herb Foster





From: "wells123...@juno.com" 
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 3:31:07 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] RE:  Donato

Rx Hans & Wendell: 

(1) Kava-kava 250mg 3 times a day or as needed for stress & anxiety. 
(2) Long vacation.
(3) Avoid Donato videos and discussions.  

---

Rx for everyone else: 

(1) Funny Donato videos as needed for stress & anxiety.

Valerie ;o)



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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Auf dem Strom

[Herbert Foster]

Thank you for the link. If you click on About "Key Color" in
http://www.rollingball.com/TemperamentsFrames.htm

you will see what was believed to be the color or mood of each key. This was 
independent of the absolute pitch of the key. 
It is interesting to compare these to the keys Auf dem Strom is played in. Note 
that there are changes of key in the piece.

Herb Foster





From: John Dutton 
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:24:26 AM
Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Auf dem Strom

quote: "Although in Schuberts time tuning was already more or less
equal, this theory was still around. "

With respect to M v d L, equal temperament was not common until the
20C and then only regionally at the beginning.  There were a few
companies that claimed to tune keyboards to equal temperament such as
Broadwood in England but it was not better than close and remained a
Well temperament.  Even by 1930's when piano tuners claimed to be
tuning ET most accomplished only a sort of reverse well temp because
of how they created the temperament octave aurally.  For a graphic
illustration of temperaments check out this website:
http://www.rollingball.com/TemperamentsFrames.htm


I would definitely accept that Well Temperaments had supplanted Mean
Tone temperaments which indeed would have smoothed out some of the
harshness of off keys.  For those that are kind of scratching their
heads at this point.In historical keyboard temperaments, the key
of C major was the only one that was close to truly Just.  Every key
going either way around the circle of 5ths became ever more dissonant
and full of tension so that by the time there were 5 flats or sharps
the key was considered unusable in Bach's time.  Bach and a few others
around Europe were experimenting with smoothing some of this
dissonance out and the era of Well Temperaments came about.  Well
Temperaments ARE NOT equal temperaments.  Some are closer than others
but definitely not equal.   I'll stop here but whole dissertations are
written on this topic, and just like in the horn world, there is a lot
of bad information that is repeated in various "reputable" sources as
well.

The Jack Attack!
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Auf dem Strom

[Herbert Foster]

Didn't the mood of a key have more to do with how that key was out of tune on 
the keyboard compared to just temperament? 

Herb Foster





From: Han-Wen Nienhuys 
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:22:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Auf dem Strom

On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 4:14 PM, Daniel B. Hrdy  wrote:
> That's good, Hans, I should have ordered it from you.  Do you think Schubert
> would mind all these different keys?  Why did he pick E?  There are supposed
> to be certain moods associated with certain keys, but I've never really
> believed that when it comes to horn playing.

In Schubert's time, an E was markedly lower than today, so Schubert's
E will have sounded differently anyway.

-- 
Han-Wen Nienhuys - han...@xs4all.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen
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Re: [Hornlist] Music "Dictionary" Recommendation

[Herbert Foster]

The conductor doesn't necessarily know everything. In a previous thread I had 
asked what "en dehors" meant in Afternoon of a Faun by Debussy. The consensus 
was that it meant to the fore. Our conductor had said that it meant from a 
distance. When I told him of my findings, he stood corrected. He is a good 
conductor, and I respect him a lot. 

By the way, some editions of Afternoon of a Faun have wrong notes. If it 
doesn't tell you to remove the sardines, err... mutes, there's at least one 
wrong note.

Herb Foster






On Nov 25, 2008, at 2:34 PM, hans wrote:

> I have begun with it, but it takes some time. Such small
> music dictionaries are rare, the really small but with a lot
> of information. Most were published in German language,
> sorry, but they are available at antiquars only.
> 
> Rec.: use your common sense & ask the conductor. Don't be
> shy. It is not a shame, not to know some very rare musical
> terms in a foreign language. BUT THE CONDUCTOR HAS TO KNOW
> THEM  (rarely !) AND UNDERSTAND THEM - HOPEFULLY 
> 



  
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Re: [Hornlist] Very interesting Youtube - how to convince

[Herbert Foster]

I'm afraid I have to agree with you, Hans. He has no music in his bones. His 
"answer" to Radovan Vlatovic's Le rendez-vous di chasse was disgusting. 
Listening to Radovan Vlatovic was a breath of fresh air.

Herb Foster





From: hans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 3:08:58 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] Very interesting Youtube - how to convince

Friends, I recommend a visit on Youtube & search for
"donatoinglese". This is a real name: Donato Inglese. He
fits into some peoples "how to convince". This guy is
ruining the fame of the horn with his many video clips. One
is taken (even prohibited) during his participation (first
round only) at the September 2008 International Competition
in Sannicandro in Italy. You can see the jury, when he plays
Castel del Monte by Nino Rota. I was near jumping up &
taking his horn away when he literaly blew this lovely
introduction to pieces in his attempt "to convince the
people by his power". What he did with Hermann Baumann was
disgusting & infame. Have a look, please. 

Special interesting might be his Mozart K.495 interpretation
& his Strauss No.1. Here the cameraman/woman, the pianist &
the hornplayer created a convincing unity of incapability.
The pianist hit a right note rarely. Listening to it is not
a fun. But he is the GREATEST.

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[Hornlist] Effects in Debussy Afternoon of a Fawn

[Herbert Foster]

I have some questions on how to get the desired effects in Afternoon of a Fawn.

There is one section with the instruction "en dehors" that means, I understand, 
from a distance. I can't run offstage; there's not even enough time (none) to 
put in a mute. A possibility is hand muting, where you finger a half note 
higher.

Near the end, after you've removed the sardine, err... mute, the score asks for 
cuivre, then bouche. A loud brassy tone would be inappropriate. Would you hand 
stop the cuivre, then hand mute the bouche?

Herb Foster



  
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Re: [Hornlist] Fracks, Splits, and Critics

[Herbert Foster]

It even happens in amateur recordings. I always record the dress rehearsal as 
well as the performance. I correct the most egregious clams from all sections 
either from a repeat, if there is one, or from the dress rehearsal. Some times 
I have to change the pitch and/or tempo of the section I splice in.

One point about a recording is that the same clam happens at the same place 
every time. During a performance the clam is more forgivable, particularly if 
you're caught up in the music--the reason you're at a performance rather than 
listening to a recording.

What is so different about a performance compared to a recording? More is being 
communicated than just the notes. My friends who are into such things call it 
energy or chi.

Herb Foster



- Original Message 
From: "Glick, Ed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; The Horn List 

Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 10:17:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Fracks, Splits, and Critics



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eldon Matlick
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 9:01 PM
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Subject: [Hornlist] Fracks, Splits, and Critics

Eldon,

I agree with what you say here, but I want to make a comment about one point 
you make, regarding recordings of live performances. It's my understanding that 
in many "live" concert recordings, sections from recordings from different 
nights (when an orchestra does perform the same program over several nights) 
are "spliced" in where necessary. (I put the word "splice" in quotes, because 
tape - if tape is even used - is no longer spliced physically now, but by a 
computer.) I'm told that sometimes the orchestra is even called back to record 
sections specifically for the recording.

This is all hearsay. Does anyone have direct knowledge of what goes on in 
"live" recordings?

Ed Glick
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Re: [Hornlist] RE: Tight as can be...

[Herbert Foster]

Such straps also are useful for those of us who (ahem) have many, many years of 
"experience." I use one inch woven strapping. It holds its shape so you can 
quickly insert you hand after dewatering, or waking up on the last measure of a 
50 measure rest.

Herb Foster



- Original Message 
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2008 10:55:37 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] RE: Tight as can be...

If it's a grip issue, I might be able to help.  I had a grip problem when I 
came back to horn 2 1/2 years ago.  I was playing a Holton 179 & my left hand 
would get painful cramps from gripping & holding this heavy instrument. The 
cramping most definitely impaired my technique. I tried various commercially 
made straps & found they added too much bulk and made it even more difficult 
for my short fingers to reach the levers.  I fashioned a strap made of thin 
cotton cloth that anchors on the pinky hook enabling me to play the horn w/o 
putting my pinky into the hook. Because the weight of the instrument is 
supported by the "crotch" between the thumb & first knuckle, there's no pain, 
strain or cramping.  I gave one of my straps to another small female horn 
player and also another to my 11 year old student.  It solved grip & cramping 
problems for them as well.  

If you think this might be the issue, contact me off list.

Valerie in Tacoma  


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Re: [Hornlist] Air Stream

[Herbert Foster]

Ah yes, overanalysis. Guilty as charged. I had the same problems above the 
staff. This year at Kendall Betts Horn Camp I had a chance to interact with 
several fine teachers. One recommended that I overlap less. That didn't seem to 
work. Another teacher gave me permission to overlap and to find my natural 
embouchure. For the first time in decades of trying I can free-buzz and carry 
it to the mouthpiece. Result: my high range is much more free. 

Yet another teacher showed me how the low register shift aligns the lips to 
less overlap, like a trombone player. Then Kendall put it all together.

YMMV. One man's meat is another man's poison. One size does NOT fit all.

Herb Foster



- Original Message 
From: Donald Huang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:39:07 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] Air Stream

Richard Hirsh wrote:

Couple of comments.

1) This is the sort of effect that can happen when you try to analyze your
playing too closely. You had a set of working habits; now your playing is
suffering because you are messing around with the habits your body
developed, largely without your knowledge. Concentrate on MUSICAL results
rather than mechanics.

2) In fact, you SHOULD be changing the direction of the air stream within
the cup. It is one way of changing the impedance (resistance) to your air
stream. (The other two are adjusting the embrochure and closing the larynx.)
You need more resistance to play high, because the air has to move faster
and through a smaller hole (your embrochure). Blowing against the side of
the cup rather than straight down the middle helps support the high pressure
air stream. Conversely, when playing low, blowing straight down the cup
decreases resistance and allows the higher volume lower speed stream drive
the relaxed and enlarged embrochure. This is why your jaw moves forward and
back as well as up and down when you change registers.

3) One very fine player I studied with played a bit off center. One day at a
lesson he demonstrated that he could in fact play with the mouthpiece
virtually anywhere on his lips - I mean side to side, up and down. Another
very fine player I studied with always cocked his head to one side. Both
were absolutely marvelous players and are in the Farkas photographic study
book.

Regards,
Richard Hirsh, Chicago

I suppose you might possibly be right about me overanalyzing my playing
mechanics, but I'm pretty sure my habits aren't working now. A few months
ago, I could normally play a nice D above the staff (maybe not with the best
tone every time but still) without trying very hard at all. Then, I screwed
around with my embouchure after I had some lip injuries from trying too hard
on my school's Beauty and the Beast production (which wasn't terribly
difficult, but caused me to use too much pressure I guess) and now I
struggle to play an A right above the staff. On good days, I can poke out a
high B, but my upper register isn't much more reliable than it was three
months ago right after the embouchure shift. <--Very depressing for me.
I knew the air stream does normally change during playing, but that comment
2 was pretty interesting and informative; I didn't know all that about the
blowing down the cup vs. blowing against the side of the cup. However, I
think my air stream in the upper register still might be a bit extreme;
sometimes it even feels like the air stream might be going backwards. A
little exaggeration on my part may be present, but not too much.

Thanks for the comments and keep them coming!

Don Huang
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Acoustics

[Herbert Foster]

I have found that an empty 1/2 liter or 1 pint water bottle to be as effective 
and somewhat more in tune. Less expensive, too.

Herb Foster


- Original Message 
From: Kerri Bridges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 5:37:44 AM
Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Acoustics

On the same note, what's the opinion of practice mutes? Are they worth it or
should one just resolve to disturb the neigbours?

Thanks,
Kerri
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Re: SV: [Hornlist] Perspex mouthpiece

[Herbert Foster]

Be aware that lexan is a polycarbonate plastic. Polycarbonates are made with 
bisphenol-A (BPA), which is a known endocrine disruptor. There is some 
controversy of the use of polycarbonates in, e.g. water bottles. The data is 
not all in.

Herb Foster


- Original Message 
From: Sven Bring <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:12:29 AM
Subject: SV: [Hornlist] Perspex mouthpiece

Kelly's lexan mpcs are not expensive. I have only tried one of the tuba models, 
and it was quite OK.

http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/french_horn.asp

Sven
- Ursprungligt meddelande 
> Från: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Till: horn@music.memphis.edu
> Skickat: fredag 30 maj 2008 15:40:51
> Ämne: [Hornlist] Perspex mouthpiece
> 
> I commented on these "see through" mouthpieces many years ago (those who  
> feel so inclined may look up my exact words in the archive) - For those who  
> can't be bothered, (which includes me) I re-iterate what I said then:
> 
> A friend of mine bought one of these perspex mouthpieces so that he could  
> see what his pupils were doing.  
> It was very expensive and was a copy of a Paxman mouthpiece.  As a  teaching 
> aid it was entirely successful right up until the moment he tried to  use it 
> at which point,  condensation (or maybe spit) formed on the inside  of the 
> mouthpiece rendering it completely opaque.
> 
> He now has it drilled with a hole and uses it as a keyring.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Larence
> lawrenceyates.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
>  
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Position

[Herbert Foster]

I have been asked off list what is moleskin that I use to alleviate right thumb 
pressure when I play off the leg. Moleskin is an adhesive backed sheet of felt 
like material sold for people with foot problems. You'll find it next to the 
Dr. Scholls pads in supermarkets and drugstores (chemists in UK?). I haven't 
tried them. I cut out small pieces and cover the callous.

I've tried rotating the hand to put less pressure on the thumb, but that 
stresses the wrist tendons, something I don't want. We're all built 
differently, something that some people don't understand. 

Herb Foster



  
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Position

[Herbert Foster]

Playing off the leg definitely helps my breathing and makes me less dependent 
on chair height. I am definitely in the minority among the amateurs I know.

One reason playing off the leg can be less comfortable is that it unbalances 
the horn and puts more stress on the left pinky. That's the reason I use a hand 
strap. Now the major discomfort is the pressure on the right thumb knuckle. I 
use moleskin to alleviate that.

Herb Foster



  
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Alessio Allegrini

[Herbert Foster]

I have found that the best bread makes the most crumbs. Hmm...

Herb Foster


- Original Message 
From: Daniel Canarutto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 7:01:35 AM
Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Alessio Allegrini

I forgot: besides the quality of his playing, Alessio Allegrini is 
also known for answering to Riccardo Muti: "Maestro, il pane fa le 
briciole e il corno fa li scrocchi" [Maestro, bread makes crumbs and 
the horn makes cracks]

Daniel
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Re: [Hornlist] Falling Apart

[Herbert Foster]

I prefer to play the finger horn.

The hand horn I have not mastered.

Herb Foster


- Original Message 
From: Steve Freides <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:40:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Falling Apart

> -Original Message-
> From: James Maddrey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:14 PM
> To: The Horn List
> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Falling Apart
> 
> Now, suppose that two valves acted up. You would be up the 
> proverbial creek without a paddle.
> Wouldn't it it solve the problem if you knew how to play the 
> natural horn?

I prefer to play the unnatural horn.  According to all accounts, unnatural
is an accurate description of the sound of my playing.

-S-

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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Counting rests

[Herbert Foster]

If you used the Gray code, you'd only have to move one finger at a time. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_code

Herb Foster


- Original Message 
From: Marc Gelfo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 8:25:58 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Counting rests

I tend to make a lot of notations about what's going on during rests and before 
entrances.  I also break up long rests into smaller chunks, which is the 
biggest help for me.  I never count more than 32 rests at a time.

And let me tell you why it's that magic number 32: 

I count in binary!!

Using one hand only, that means I can count to 32, reliably, with one unique 
position per number.  Here are some links to info about "finger binary":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_binary
http://www.glassgiant.com/geek/count_to_31_on_one_hand/
http://www.intuitor.com/counting/

Having played Mahler 8 last year, I can assure you, that is no easy symphony to 
count rests.  Don't beat yourself up about it :-)

Cheers,
Marc Gelfo

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Re: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?

[Herbert Foster]

Right you are. It's factitious note. With all our sports car gadgets, we forget 
about such things.

Herb Foster


- Original Message 
From: Paul Mansur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 1:09:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Low F on Vienna Horn?

I think you mean "factitious" note.  That is, a manufactured note  
that isn't on the horn.  Such as the low G in the Beethoven Sonata  
for natural horn.  It's pretty easy to produce.

Paul Mansur

On Apr 25, 2008, at 12:52 PM, Herbert Foster wrote:

> Couldn't it be played as a false note on first valve? Actually, I  
> have found that false notes are sharp, so 12 might be better. My  
> false notes are not strong, but I should think that a good player  
> would be fairly strong.
>
> I forget the technical term for false note, but it means the same  
> thing.
>
> Herb Foster

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Re: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?

[Herbert Foster]

Couldn't it be played as a false note on first valve? Actually, I have found 
that false notes are sharp, so 12 might be better. My false notes are not 
strong, but I should think that a good player would be fairly strong.

I forget the technical term for false note, but it means the same thing.

Herb Foster


- Original Message 
From: Jonathan West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 9:01:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Low F on Vienna Horn?

2008/4/24 Mark Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I play
>  a Vienna Horn and my community orchestra has programmed Mahler's 4th for our
>  next program.  I've been assigned 3rd Horn since the pedal F notes in the
>  2nd and 4th parts are generally not assumed to be playable on a single F
>  horn.  I was hoping you could provide me with the solution used by Vienna
>  Horn players for this not, since these parts were in all likelihood written
>  for them.

I have a copy of all four parts to hand. The bass clef passages are
old notation. The only pedal F I can find is in the 4th part, last
movement, rehearsal mark 10, where the 2nd & 4th horns are in octaves
for a slow pianissimo passage, the 4th starting on a minim pedal F,
and going on to crotchet G, A, minim B, then crotchet A, G followed by
a final minim F. The tempo marking is "Wieder plotzlich zuruckhaltend"
(apologies Hans for not including the necessary umlauts).

In other words, the passage is fairly slow and very quiet, which I
imagine would leave an opportunity for the player to use hand and lip
to push the pitch down to F from F#. As 2nd is playing the same
passage an octave above, you would have a good reference pitch for the
purpose of adjusting the tuning. Challenging for a single F horn,
Vienna or otherwise, but by no means impossible.

Regards
Jonathan West
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Re: [Hornlist] Pick-up notes

[Herbert Foster]

Doug, what you say is the concept of phrasing that I strive for. However, 
Kendall Betts, no mean player and teacher himself says, 
"Pick ups are strong, downbeats are weak, the following notes of the bar (or  
beat) go 'up' through the last beat (or end of the subdivision), to the  
weakened downbeat of the next bar (or beat) unless it's the 'end' and  perhaps 
then 
you make it stronger as the peak of the phrase to give a feeling of  finality." 
I do not think this quote is out of context.

To my untrained ear that is contrary to what you say. Now it may be that you 
teachers are overemphasizing the direction you want the student to go, hoping 
that the student will do 20% of it. There is, however, the adage, "Be careful 
of what you ask for--You might get it."

Herb "Confused" Foster

- Original Message 
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:23:26 AM
Subject: [Hornlist] Pick-up notes

It seems to me that most melodies can have words added to them.  I'm sure
many of us do this when trying to teach our students how we want them to
phrase or to illustrate the emotional content.  A singer has to have a
very clear picture of the entire phrase before he starts, especially the
emphasis points to which the breath leads.  If the libretto has been set
effectively, the stressed syllables will fall on the strong beats, and the
words with the most emotive content will have the longest duration and be
sung with a "mezza di voce" i.e. slight swell (emphasis on slight, NOT
twah-twah), to make sure that the air continues to move forward rather
than become static.  Pick-up notes aren't thrown away, but neither are
they goals in a phrase, the strong beats and sustained notes are the
goals, and appogiaturae are especially important points of stress to which
the air must lead and "blossoom" through.  Frequently, students make the
highest note of the phrase the "goal" or are "confrontational" about the
first note regardless of its relative weight in the overall phrase, thus
leading to interpretations that frequently put the em-PHA-sis on the wrong
syl-LA-bel, which only serves to inhibit technical execution.


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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Phrasing, was changing tone color

[Herbert Foster]

Wendell, I have read your article and have looked at your video. I do thank you 
for your helping us. I don't think I have "got it," though I think I know what 
you mean by arsis and thesis, which are new to me. It's Greek to me :-). 

For example when I perform "America the Beautiful," I sing or play it as I 
would say it. That means that the pick-up notes "O" and "for" in "O beautiful 
for spacious skies," are not emphasized, as I think I have heard teachers say. 
However, these are not just notes in the rhythm, but I think and perform them 
as leading into the following notes, which have more emphasis. Maybe that's 
what you mean, and I do get it.

I have heard the next phrase performed as "For amber waves OF grain." That's 
unmusical to me, though the "of" is the highest note.

Herb Foster

- Original Message 
From: Wendell Rider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:09:09 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Phrasing, was changing tone color


On Apr 18, 2008, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> message: 10
> date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:48:15 -0700 (PDT)
> from: Herbert Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> subject: Re: [Hornlist] Changing tone color
>
> As well as being a fine teacher, Douglas is a singer, and he adds  
> that perspective to his teaching.
>
> This brings up a question. We are taught not to de-emphasize pick- 
> up notes, if not to emphasize them. However, when I am singing,  
> pick-up notes are usually on weak syllables. How do I "sing on the  
> horn" with these seemingly contradictory directions?
>
> Herb Foster


Hi Herb,
I'm not sure what you mean by "weak syllables," so maybe this won't  
help, but pick-up notes and other weak beats are the most expressive  
notes in music. That is where all expression begins. This was part of  
what I was writing about in my article in the February Horn Call, if  
you have it, and what I demonstrated on the video that is now sitting  
on my web site.
This goes back to the ancient Greeks and their poetry. When you set a  
piece or phrase in motion it is the weak beats or off beats or the  
weak parts of beats that control the space between the stronger or  
more static down beats. Its like starting to move your feet when you  
walk, run or dance. The first move you make sets the tempo for when  
the feet will come down again. Rhythm comes from what is in between  
the beats. The pick-up note sets the whole phrase in motion.
Don't worry about syllables, if I catch your meaning. Get into the  
flow, which is controlled by the arsis, or weak beats, that come  
between the static, or thesis, beats. Syllables are parts of words  
that contain vowels. Its just a definition. How the "syllables" of  
music work together is phrasing and musicality. Great singers do the  
same thing that all great musicians do, and that is to phrase with  
the weak beats.
Sincerely,
Wendell Rider
For information about my book, "Real World Horn Playing", the DVDs  
and Regular and Internet Horn Lessons go to my website: http:// 
www.wendellworld.com


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Re: [Hornlist] Changing tone color

[Herbert Foster]

As well as being a fine teacher, Douglas is a singer, and he adds that 
perspective to his teaching.

This brings up a question. We are taught not to de-emphasize pick-up notes, if 
not to emphasize them. However, when I am singing, pick-up notes are usually on 
weak syllables. How do I "sing on the horn" with these seemingly contradictory 
directions?

Herb Foster

- Original Message 
From: Douglas Lundeen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 4:46:58 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] Changing tone color

I was really glad to hear Hans comment on changing tone color.  It IS 
extremely rare in modern wind playing in general and brass playing in 
particular to hear people talk of changing colors.  There are (fewer now 
than formerly) different tone-colors out there, but each "school" seems 
to be aiming for one basic sound.  String players (especially chamber 
musicians) think a lot about color and changing it, and can see with 
there eyes how changing the distance from the bridge changes the tone 
color, etc., etc.

By changing the mouthspace (vowel), and the air/volume/speed/pressure 
"recipe" for a given note, horn tone can also be extremely flexible, and 
should be changed to suit the composer/work in question, i.e. Bruckner 
WAY different than Rossini:)  Sort of stacking the deck there, but also 
there is a lot of musical value to changing color within a phrase or 
even on a long note the way a fine singer would.  Think of all of the 
different vowel shadings there are in vocalization; and while on the 
topic, why shouldn't we horn players make the full palette of 
consonants, voiced and unvoiced, an integral part of our articulation?

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Re: [Hornlist] Brahms Trio

[Herbert Foster]

The latest IHS Journal has an article that goes into gory detail.  I love the 
disparity of opinion not only about what the "folk melody" means, but what it 
even is. Maybe Brahms just wrote great music, influenced, of course, by his 
life? Maybe all the opinions are partially right.

Herb Foster

- Original Message 
From: Jerry Houston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 4:37:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Brahms Trio


[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
> 
Alright 
an 
easy 
question 
for 
a 
quiet 
Sunday 
evening.
>  
> 
Why 
did 
Brahms 
specify 
that 
his 
horn 
trio 
should 
be 
played 
on 
a 
natural  
horn?

Perhaps 
this 
will 
help?

  
  
http://www.osmun.com/reference/brahms/Introduction.html
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Re: [Hornlist] Annoying Sounds

[Herbert Foster]

I have the same problem with Kopprasch. The somber question is: How does hot 
glue react to oil? You DO oil the shaft at that end don't you?

Herb Foster

- Original Message 
From: Larry Jellison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:30:21 AM
Subject: [Hornlist] Annoying Sounds


Luke 
wrote:
 
I 
tried 
some 
Viton, 
durometer 
75, 
[for 
bumpers] 
and
it 
is 
too 
hard, 
causing 
an 
annoying 
sound 
when 
playing
Kopprasch. 


I 
quit 
playing 
Kopprasch 
several 
years 
ago 
because 
I
thought 
the 
sounds 
coming 
out 
of 
my 
horn 
were
annoying, 
too.  
Never 
thought 
of 
blaming 
the 
bumpers.

More 
somberly, 
has 
there 
ever 
been 
a 
discussion 
on
this 
list 
of 
bumpers? 
Bumpers 
need 
to 
allow 
quiet
valve 
action, 
not 
cause 
a 
bounce, 
yet 
consistently
stop 
at 
the 
same 
location 
over 
a 
long 
period 
of 
time
(years, 
hopefully). 
I 
have 
been 
thinking 
of 
trying
glue 
from 
a 
hot 
glue 
gun, 
applying 
the 
hot 
glue
directly 
to 
the 
bumper 
location-- 
should 
make 
a
perfect 
fit, 
then 
the 
excess 
would 
be 
trimmed 
with 
a
razor 
blade. 
The 
hot 
glue 
comes 
in 
varying 
grades 
of
hardness

Larry



  
  
  

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Re: [Hornlist] what shoe for after beats?

[Herbert Foster]

Hey, at least it's north of South Endwell. In these parts  North Bruswick is 
south of New Brunswick. We also have Essex, Wessex, Sussex, but no Nosex. I 
think it went the way of the Shakers.

Herb Foster

- Original Message 
From: Jay Kosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2008 8:56:20 AM
Subject: [Hornlist] what shoe for after beats?


hey! 
can 
this 
'shoe' 
thing 
help 
with 
Soosa 
after 
beats? 
and 
what 
about
those 
walst 
/ 
pokka 
songs?

where 
can 
i 
by 
top 
clas 
ones 
reel 
cheep 
- 
and 
how 
to 
get 
the 
rite 
siz?

jay 
kosta
endwell 
ny 
(a 
little 
north 
of 
south 
endwell, 
and 
right 
of 
east 
endwell)
across 
the 
creek 
from 
the 
closed 
down 
clam 
mill 
- 
it 
got 
outsourced 
.

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Re: [Hornlist] lead / lead

[Herbert Foster]

Aw, c'mon. I've heard jigs played on pipes where you just couldn't keep your 
feet still, wanting to dance. The French horn is the most beautiful instrument, 
but it doesn't do that.

Herb Foster

- Original Message 
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2008 6:10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] lead / lead


 
 
In 
a 
message 
dated 
02/02/2008 
21:48:58 
GMT 
Standard 
Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

"or 
as  
the 
Brits 
do, 
they 
call  
it 
a 
leader 
pipe"



I've 
never 
heard 
it 
called 
that 
over 
here 
- 
we 
usually 
call 
it 
a 
mouthpipe  
(as 
opposed 
to 
a 
bagpipe 
- 
and 
let's 
face 
it, 
everybody's 
opposed 
to 
the  
bagpipe)
 
Cheers,

Lawrence
 
lawrenceyates.co.uk



  
 
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Re: [Hornlist] Caught by the Horns by Burton Hardin

[Herbert Foster]

Yes, the last note goes up to Bb above the staff, but is not necessary. It's a 
fun piece for the horns, but the band accompaniment isn't the best. There is 
also an arrangement for brass quintet featuring the horn, of course. I played 
it at a gig last weekend. I'm beginning to learn to swing.

Herb Foster

- Original Message 
From: Jay Kosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 11:05:33 AM
Subject: [Hornlist] Caught by the Horns by Burton Hardin


This site seems to have it -

http://www.emersonhorneditions.com/index_files/Page581.htm

I did a google search using 'hardin caught horns'

I bought this piece several years ago for use in my community band - it
 is
a fun piece for the horns and is not difficult for an amateur group, my
guess is it's about Grade 3.

It needs at least 3 decent horn players, and is written for 4. I think
 the
1st part goes to Bb above the staff at least once.

The style combines some Mozart, with swing and syncopation.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY

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Re: [Hornlist] Tuning of a double horn

[Herbert Foster]

No, the lips do not decouple the body from the horn. Consider that the lips 
interact with the sound wave reflected from the bell. They don't just buzz. In 
the same way, the lips interact with the resonances of the air cavities of the 
mouth, pharynx, etc. That is, there are pushes and pulls on the lips from both 
sides. What goes on on one side of the embouchure affects the other side. 
That's why the vowel you form affects the horn sound. Since my voice timbre is 
created by these resonances, and my voice sounds different from yours, so my 
horn sound differs.

Here's an experiment. Sing a note in a relaxed manner. Now tense just your 
shoulders. The sound changes. The same thing happens with the horn.

Herb Foster, research engineer

- Original Message 
From: Bill Gross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Horn List 
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:36:12 AM
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Tuning of a double horn 


I am curious about the contribution to the horn sound the person
 playing has
on it?  Assuming equal mastery of the instrument, what influence of the
physical structure of the players head has on final sound.  Beyond the
 lips,
the sinus cavities, etc. and connected to the horn.  Do the lips
(embouchure) decouple the rest of the body from the horn?

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Re: [Hornlist] Horn for 11 Year Old

[Herbert Foster]

Why? It must have been a long time since you heard a beginning clarinetist 
squawk. Better the sick cow sound of a beginning hornist.

Herb Foster

- Original Message 
From: Jeremy Cucco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 3:36:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Horn for 11 Year Old


For what it's worth, my 2.5 year old really likes my Yamaha 321 single
Bb.  Though it's a bit big for him at the moment, he doesn't have a
problem filling it up.  The real question is, why would I torture my
 son
by letting him wander down a path of frustration and missed notes by
letting him even touch my horn versus my wife's clarinet...





  

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Re: [Hornlist] Slur - or phrase marking?

[Herbert Foster]

That's what I always thought, but I've had a well known teacher say it's always 
a slur. The piece in question was Pavanne For a Dead Princess.

Herb Foster

- Original Message 
From: Paul Mansur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:31:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Slur - or phrase marking?


In a word, you judge from the context.  There are all sorts of clues,  
tempo, style markings, etc.

Paul Mansur

On Jan 14, 2008, at 5:26 AM, Graham Jarvis wrote:

> Hi
> I can't believe I've ben playing the horn for as long as I have  
> without having cleared this question up but better late than never.
>
> How do I know whether a curved line over (or below) a series of  
> denotes is meant to denote a slur (notes connected without  
> tonguing) or a phrase-mark (notes connected musically but not  
> ruling out tongued articulation between notes)?
>
> The issue arose when I was looking at the Concone studies which I  
> recently bought. But thinking back over rcent orchestra rehearsals  
> I can remember times when I've made decisions based in instinct  
> rather than theory.
>
> Are there rules out there?
>
> Regards,
> Graham
>
> --
> Jag använder gratisversionen av SPAMfighter för privata användare.
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Re: [Hornlist] Humperdink "Evening Prayer" from "Hansel Und Gretal"

[Herbert Foster]

Yes, it does thicken the sound. I have the recording and I do enjoy it, but I 
prefer the Evening Prayer as composed. It is open and transparent (whatever 
that means). Our tastes vary. Vive la difference!

Herb Foster

- Original Message 
From: BVD Press <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 12:15:29 PM
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Humperdink "Evening Prayer" from "Hansel Und Gretal"

After reading everything below, I assume you have 
an opinion of the Hansel and Gretel recorded by 
the Vienna Horns found here:

http://poperepair.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=70&zenid=47e96d53b622a1e532e88d14f4aad58b

Has it been destroyed, is it in the "Simpson 
style", did it lose its' "octavations" or 
"thicken the sound" too much?







  

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Re: [Hornlist] orchestral Sousa

[Herbert Foster]

Don't forget that Sousa started out writing marches for marching--USMC, I 
believe. Our band director tells the story, perhaps apocryphal, that when Sousa 
toured Germany, he played arrangements of good German music. When he played the 
first piece, he got enthusiastic applause. Then someone shouted "Play zee 
Vashington Post!" He played that as an encore. This happened after every 
scheduled piece. This was when The Washington Post was very popular here and 
overseas. It was even played by dance bands for dancing (2 step). By the way, 
this march was composed for that newspaper in Washington, DC, which was running 
an essay contest to boost its circulation.

Herb Foster

- Original Message 
From: Steve Tarter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Horn List 
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:03:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] orchestral Sousa



> I don't think that any Sousa march should be played by
> an orchestra. You can't march to it.
>
> Gary

That is on interesting thought, considering that Sousa's band almost 
never marched... they played his toe-tapping "make you want to march" 
marches in concert settings where no one (band or audience) would be 
marching.

---Steve Tarter---
Tokyo, Japan

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RE: [Hornlist] Humperdink "Evening Prayer" from "Hansel Und Gretal"

[Herbert Foster]

I tend to agree with Hans on this one, though not as adamantly. Changing the
sound source does alter the character of the music, and it may wind up being
different music.

For example, while I dislike playing Sousa intensely, I have yet to hear a
symphony orchestra do justice to a Sousa march, which should make your feet
want to march. Only a band gives it the right character. An orchestra I play in
played the St. Louis Blues. It was awful. Better a rock band should play
Liebestod from Tristan und Isolde. Please tell me it hasn't been done.

I have the same problem with arrangements for horn choirs. They're fun to play,
but not for public performance. Only horn players really enjoy them.

Herb Foster
--- BVD Press <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
> >Wouldn´t a large brass ensemble ruin the intimate character
> >of the "Evening Prayer" ? Is there no self restriction
> >left any more ? Why not arranging a Joseph Haydn
> >Stringquartett for a Tuba Octet, because it is a SOO
> >GREAT PIECE    Are you going crazy perhaps ??? Or
> >Schuberts "Ave Maria" for big band ??? RIDICULOUS 
> 
> I see no reason why  a great piece of literature 
> should not be arranged for another 
> instrumentation as long as it is played in the 
> correct style.  As a tuba player, I ask if you 
> have heard some recordings of Tuba Ensembles 
> playing pieces form the classical era?  I am 
> guessing the answer is no.  Some are quite 
> outstanding.  If you have not heard any, find 
> some and listen because I think you will be 
> amazed.
> 
> If you are wondering, I "borrow" most of the Horn 
> literature for Tuba but hand muting is quite 
> difficult!
> 
> BTW, I am currently working on arranging a bunch 
> of Mozart string quartets for Clarinet Quartet 
> and I think they will turn out quite well!  I am 
> assuming you would have a major objection to this 
> as well, but your stance seems awfully short 
> sighted and close minded.
> 
> It is all music after all and should be enjoyed 
> by all regardless of the medium.
> 



  

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Re: [Hornlist] Re: lacquer

[Herbert Foster]

Other possibilities are clear packaging tape and nail polish or spray lacquer.
I have used all successfully. The down side is that you have to re-do it
monthly. However, they are easy to remove and reapply. 

If the horn has scratched lacquer, the lacquer should be removed because the
hand acids get in the cracks and pits and the horn comes down with brasspox. I
know. Then you certainly can't relacquer or plate because the buffing would
remove too much metal, as mentioned in other posts.

Playing off the leg puts more wear on the area in the bell that supports the
weight. Also on the thumb knuckle, in my case. I have taken to wearing a piece
of moleskin on my knuckle.

Herb Foster
--- "Daniel B. Hrdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have a difficult time with unlacquered horns because my hands sweat so 
> much.  I tried a listmember's suggestion of putting clear shelf paper inside 
> the bell.  It worked OK in terms of sound, but I didn't like the feel or 
> look.  It ended up being an excuse to buy a new (lacquered) horn.
> 
> Dan 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Digest, Vol 60, Issue 17

[Herbert Foster]

A cylindrical tube, closed at one end (lips) and open at the other (bell), will
play the odd harmonics:
1 Fundamental C
3 G an octave and a half above that
7 a flat Bb over an octave above that
9 the D above that
.
.
.
If you pretend that the 7th harmonic is the 8th and that it's middle C, then
it's more or less in tune from there on up. This explains your observations.

Brass instruments defeat this problem by having a conical section and/or a bell
that shorten the effective acoustic length of the tubing at low frequencies.
Note that the trumpet, which does not have a conical section, has an out of
tune fundamental. Cabbage demonstrates all this very effectively.

I found this out in high school when I demonstrated the harmonic series on the
horn in physics lab. When I drew the nodes and antinodes on the blackboard
(real slate in those days), I discovered to my horror that it didn't come out
to the harmonic series. You know how embarrassed adolescents get; I was glad my
girl friend wasn't there. 

Herb Foster
--- "King, Andrew D" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Why is my hose out of tune?
> 
> I commute an hour and 15 minutes each way to work every day.  Recently,
> I cut a piece of hose to be pitched in F.  Now on my way to work I can
> warm-up and do a series of slurring and tonguing exercises on the hose
> horn.  It has changed my life for the better.  
> 
> I have a question for anyone who understands the physics of this.  For
> some reason, my hose is badly out of tune.  The interval between the c's
> (from the bass clef C to middle C and to the treble clef C) is very
> badly out of tune.  It is naturally closer to a minor ninth than an
> octave without lipping it in tune (which is substantially more difficult
> on the hose than my horn).  Why would this be?  I assumed that any pipe
> would naturally play octaves that are in tune with themselves.
> 
> Andy
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RE: [Hornlist] Omm-Pahs & Practice

[Herbert Foster]

Well, I, for one, find 32 straight measures of 6/8 of pah pahpah... physically
painful. This also is not delicate playing as in a waltz, not with trumpets and
trombones blaring in one's ears--who hears the chord changes? D in the staff
becomes a high note. The name Sousa has become a dirty word to me. He was a
great craftsman and entertainer, 

but not a great composer. Heard one, you heard them all.


That being said, the only thing worse than playing a Sousa march in a band is
playing a Sousa march in an orchestra. The Boston Pops notwithstanding, I don't
know if it can be done. Most of the arrangements are pitiful, gratuitously
putting in stingers where they don't belong, etc.

Grumpily,
Herb Foster
--- Bill Gross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My college room mate played tuba and kept it up until an infection took his
> hearing.  He told me that he had been a member of the local municipal band
> and a community symphony.  His missed the symphony much more than the band. 
> 
> Maybe there is a good reason to the bias? 
> 
> -Original Message-
>  [ . . .]
> 
> So I have to wonder...is the bias against band music
> in general?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Hornlist] Thursday humor: Halleluja Chorus

[Herbert Foster]

Hmm, could use a little more pep!

Herb Foster
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  ...
> And here is how it should be done!
>  
> _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSVn2ymmMZY_ 
> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSVn2ymmMZY) 
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Lawrence
>  
> lawrenceyates.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
>
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Re: [Hornlist] 2nd part of my India-Nepal trip

[Herbert Foster]

Hans, I really enjoy the description of your travels. It's the best travelogue
I have read. Keep it up. You should publish.

Herb Foster
--- hans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello Landel, yes I was too busy preparing the next trip - I
> had just 8 days at home & to leave for Bangkok again - so
> there was no time to prepare the additional report. I
> thought doing it from my hotel room in Bangkok, where I had
> plenty time during the days as the Walkuere rehearsals were
> at night - btw I conducted two full orchestra rehearsals &
> worked on the beginnings of allk three acts & the finales, a
> great experience for me, which will be repeated next year in
> November while preparing Siegfried there & I shall conduct
> all sectional rehearsals & perhaps the one or the other
> orchestra rehearsal.
> snip...


  

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Re: [Hornlist] C series mouthpieces

[Herbert Foster]

"Anything you can do I can do better." Unless I pout, my mouth, when relaxed,
is a thin line, so welcome to the thin crowd. Wendell, as usual gave a good
answer. He admits to having had issues with his thick lips, so everyone's got
problems.

The conventional answer of thin lips = small diameter, wide rim just doesn't
take into account the more important parameters: mouth and muscle structure. I
am having more success with a larger diameter mouthpiece with a narrow rim. For
example, I find I can move around successfully with a Hans Pizka cookie cutter.
One reason is that if I set on the edge of the red of the lower lip with a wide
rim mouthpiece, the pressure is on the sharp edge of the lower teeth. Not much
support there! I have also had some success with a Bach 3, though I set below
the line on the lower lip. I also find that I cannot move air through a small
diameter mouthpiece. Maybe some of the young pros can, but I'm neither.

Good luck,
Herb Foster
--- Christopher Fitzhugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Wendell,
> 
> Always enjoy your posts and your instruction. A true asset to the horn
> community.
> 
> Question:
> 
> What if you are the "very thin lipped" type?  How do accomplished
> teachers such as yourself determine thick vs. thin lipped individuals?
> Is there a "minimum" inner diameter that none should pass regardless
> of lip composition?  The gamut of mouthpieces out there seem to reside
> between 17 and 17.5mm.  Is it dangerous to go smaller for even the
> thin lipped crowd (such as 16.5 on many Bach mouthpieces or the
> Schilke 27 or 28)?
> 
> Also mentioning rims, what is your opinion on thin rims vs. the
> cushion variety when it comes to preventing maladies such as dystonia?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Chris
> 



  

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Re: [Hornlist] Kruspe question

[Herbert Foster]

I would doubt that any horns were made in Germany in 1942 for any purpose:
brass was a critical material. Does anyone know for sure? In fact, I'm still
surprised that horns were made in the US in 1945. My first horn was a King,
brand new, in 1945. It was the Kruspe copy with the upside down change valve.
That was an awkward change valve. To me it was at least as awkward as the
Schmidt piston change valve.

Herb Foster
--- Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> --- Dawn McCandless <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Just obtained an old Single Kruspe horn.  Where would one find any serial
> numbers?  There is a
> > 16 on the bottom of the middle valve cap.  Is that it?  
> > 
> > The horn is brass, has string rotors and says: EDKRUSPE, ERFURT and Made in
> Germany.  It was the
> > previous owners fathers horn and he is 85 now and they guess the horn is
> about 65 years old. 
> > That puts it about 1942 from those estimates.
> > 
> > It's not in perfect condition and, unfortunately, has hints of red rot.
> Couple dings.  The keys
> > were clacky, but quieted down with thick key oil.  Before oiling the rotors
> I pulled the 3
> > slides and they did pop when pulled out.  
> > 
> > It has a wonderful tone.  Guess despite it's appearance and old age
> problems it isn't dead yet!
> > 
> > Oh, I do have another question.  How did they consider these single horns
> back then?  Was it
> > made as a student horn as they tell people single horns are now a days (at
> least here in the
> > states... ).  Or, is it considered a normal horn despite the fact it is a
> single horn in F?  
> > 
> > 
> > Dawn Marie
> > ___
> 
> The serial # most likely will be found on the bridge forming the seat for the
> paddle axle
> bearings. Try a look below the paddles.
> 
> If 1942 would be true, it hardly would have been exported to the USA as a new
> item. German F horns
> could be had in simple versions intended for students or fully pro versions
> with full nickel
> silver trim. If 1942 would be true, then the most likely purpose would have
> been as a German
> military band instrument.
> 
> I very much would like a thorough photo documentation of this instrument in
> 300dpi jpg or pdf
> formats: full front and back, technical details, and readable shots of all
> engravings. All photos
> rather mimicking blueprints rather than expressing artistic photography.
> Background: as little and
> as neutral as possible. For security reasons neither ownership nor
> photography is credited.
> 
> My project of presenting catalogue scans and brass instruments’ photos
> already holds a number of
> Kruspe instruments. The index may be found here:
> 
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMasterPublicPhotosIII/files/
> 
> Contributions of material for the project are most welcome!
> 
> Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre in Denmark
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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Re: [Hornlist] tuners?

[Herbert Foster]

The Korg CA-10 works very well, responds rapidly, and picks up the low range.
Not all do. I also use an Ibanez MU30. It's response is not so fast, and it
does not pick up the lowest notes. However, it also has a good metronome with
several functions, so I put it in my mute case. Both are small and reasonably
priced.

Herb Foster
--- Mark Syslo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Anyone have a hand-held tuner they really like?
> 
> 
> Mark Syslo
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[Hornlist] Scoring for Mozart's Requiem

[Herbert Foster]

Yesterday I heard a wonderful concert that included the Mozart Requiem. It used
Levin's modification of Suessmayr's completion. I don't want to go into that
controversy. My question has to do with the scoring. It was scored for strings,
2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, 2 trumpets, 3 trombones (including alto trombone), and
timpani. No oboes, flutes or horns. Was it Levin, Suessmayr or Mozart who left
out the oboes and horns, and why? There were oboes, flutes and horns in other
pieces on the program.

Herb Foster

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Re: [Hornlist] R: Off Topic News

[Herbert Foster]

Touche!

Herb Foster
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Larry Y offered
> 
> May I draw the attention of the list to the result of this evening's rugby 
> match between the national teams of France and England.
> 
> May I take this opportunity to congratulate the ** who came a good
> second.
> 
> 
> You may and you may.   However, I have taken the liberty of editing your 
> second 
> sentence so that it follows the recommmendations of the International Horn 
> Society,
> 
> Gotta go,
> Chou
> 
> 
> **
>  See what's new at 
> http://www.aol.com
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Re: [Hornlist] Website advice please! (HR)

[Herbert Foster]

You have two problems here:
1. The URL doesn't work.
2. It's so long that I had to paste it together. 
Use www.tinyurl.com to get an emailable address.

Good luck,
Herb Foster
--- Simon Varnam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> "Meister Werksta¨tte" : Horn Restoration and Repairs
> 
>   I've been asked to make an English version of a website for a Japanese  
> friend of mine, Mr Etsuro Honda. If you use a Yamaha triple he may well  
> have made it. Now he has his own shop, "Meister Werksta¨tte", in  
> Hamamatsu, Japan where he repairs and restores horns, especially old  
> ones.
>   The main purpose of the English version of the site is to enable  
> foreign customers to make contact with Mr Honda, who is very modest  
> about his language skills.
> 
>   I have cobbled together a website by using his original Japanese site  
> and pasting rather stilted English translations over the Japanese text.  
> I would be very glad to hear your comments regarding all aspects of the  
> site, horn related and otherwise. I am a complete beginner using the  
> "iWeb" software supplied with my DotMac account, so please don't  
> hesitate to point out even the most obvious blunders, except the  
> misspelling of Kruspe, which I cannot change, (yet).
>   
>   The top page, invites you to return to the Japanese page or see the  
> work in progress. If you have the time and the inclination please  
> choose the latter. Your advice will be much appreciated.
> 
> http://web.mac.com/ogawa_family/iWeb/Meister%20Werkstatte/ 
> English%20Top.html
> 
> gratefully yours,
> 
> Simon Varnam
> 
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Re: [Hornlist] Geyer wrap, anyone?

[Herbert Foster]

As has been pointed out, the wrap has little, if anything, to do with the
playing qualities of the horn, except that Knopf-Geyer horns tend to have
smaller bell throats, but not always. That being said, there are some
differences (but not always) in ergonomics. For example, I find the thumb throw
awkward in many Geyer horns because of the rocker-arm motion. However, the
Finke Brendan with its pushrod has the nicest thumb action I have played. 

Since the Knopf-Geyer wrap has the change valve on the far side, these horns
tend to have longer tuning slides. This is very handy when you play in
ensembles with different tuning centers and in venues with different
temperatures.

These are generalities, however, and the playing qualities of the individual
horn, whatever the wrap, trumps these considerations.

Herb Foster
--- Valerie WELLS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Three Q's if anyone cares to answer, please.
> 
> (1) If you play a Geyer wrap horn, what do you like about it?
> (2) If you previously owned a Geyer wrap horn, but don't now, could you 
> please tell me why & what you replaced it with?
> (3) If you can objectively compare a Geyer wrap to a Kruspe wrap based upon 
> your own personal experiences, could you please tell me about it?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> ~Valerie
> 
> 
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Re: [Hornlist] RE: New York Phil Opening Night, R rated review

[Herbert Foster]

Vivaldi--wasn't he the guy who wrote the same piece a thousand times?

Herb Foster
--- David Goldberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Valerie WELLS wrote:
> 
> > There's nothing more boring than a string orchestra.
> >
> > Valerie
> >
> 
> except for a string orchestra playing anything by Vivaldi.  
>  
> Can't get enough of his op.3  #10 - neither could J.S. Bach.
>  
>  
> David Goldberg
> 
> 
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Re: [Hornlist] Songs for Medium Voice, Horn, and Piano

[Herbert Foster]

That's equivalent to asking if anyone knows of any symphonies that use horns.
You could start with Schubert lieder. Milan Yancich published a book of horn
solos arranged from songs. See
http://www.windmusicpublications.com/

Herb Foster
--- "M. Elizabeth Fleming" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello, dear list-readers!
> 
> I was wondering if anyone knows of any songs for Medium (or Medium-High or
> Medium-Low; Baritone) Voice, Horn and Piano?  Any era will do just fine.
> 
> Thanks so much!
> Elizabeth F.
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Re: [Hornlist] RE: Embouchure Frustrations

[Herbert Foster]

Valerie, I'm speaking from first-hand experience here, using the book. As I did
the prescribed exercises, my high range suffered with "no speakies." One size
does not fit all. I'm not putting down the method, it just doesn't work for
all. For you it does. Great!

Herb Foster
--- Valerie WELLS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  problems. However, not for all, especially, I think, for those with very 
> thin lips. The harder skin on the edge of the lips doesn't vibrate so well, 
> and you get "no speakies."<
> 
> Thank you for your comment, Herb.  Meaning no disrespect, but your response 
> is a perfect example of the most common misconception I've seen among horn 
> players about Jeff Smiley's Balanced Embouchure development system (BE).  
> "BE" is NOT a prescribed embouchure setting requiring the "harder skin" on 
> the outer edges of the lips to aproximate & vibrate.  Some take a quick 
> glance at Smiley's website & assume that because "rolling in" exercises are 
> part of BE, it's the whole program.  "Rolling in" exercises are only part of 
> the big picture.  The big picture also includes "rolling out," tonguing on 
> the lips, snaps, zips, rips, lip slurs & other techniques.  These techniques 
> are tools incorporated into a system that guides the student in developing 
> their own balanced embouchure which will "speak" efficiently in all 
> registers regardless of the thickness of the lips.
> 


   

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Re: [Hornlist] Embouchure frestrations

[Herbert Foster]

I'm sure that  Smiley's method works for many and solves high range problems.
However, not for all, especially, I think, for those with very thin lips. The
harder skin on the edge of the lips doesn't vibrate so well, and you get "no
speakies."

Herb Foster
--- Valerie WELLS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Jeremy,
> 
> I'd like to recommend you check out Jeff Smiley's book, The Balanced 
> Embouchure, for help with your embouchure frustrations.  His simple little 
> exercises lifted me out of the range rut I was stuck in for several years.  
> He's a trumpet teacher whose program [called BE] has helped countless 
> numbers of brass players overcome difficult embouchure challenges.  His 
> website has many unsolicited testimonials from both amateur & professional 
> musicians from all over the world who have benefitted.  Valerie, balanced 
> embouchure student
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Milan Yancich

[Herbert Foster]

Whistle how? Any mouthpiece will whistle if you plug the rim with your palm and
blow across the other end.

How's the project? I'm waiting for the DVD AND the book.

Herb Foster
--- Wendell Rider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ...
> Once when I asked him if there would be a problem with how far the  
> MY9 mouthpiece went into the leadpipe receiver- it had a small shank  
> and went in quite far- he said with a smile, "Well, it does make the  
> high register easier, doesn't it?" He also showed me how to get a  
> mouthpiece to whistle and claimed that "Carl (Geyer) always said that  
> a good mouthpiece should whistle."
> ...


   
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Re: [Hornlist] RE: stopped horn

[Herbert Foster]

I should have just written for the last sentence, "Bb23 works well, being
sharper."

Herb Foster
--- Herbert Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Barry Tuckwell showed me some Bb stopped fingerings. Each horn varies,
> though.
> On my horn 4th space E is flat anyway on the F side, and stopped F2 is
> flatter.
> Bb23 works well, being sharper than the open F note.
> 
> Herb Foster
> --- Reba McLaurin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I actually had a teacher that wanted me to play on the B flat side for
> > stopping some above third space c.  She said some of the harmonics up
> > there were better in tune on the B flat side...It was mostly for f
> > sharps and g's I think.  I would never use the B flat side for the
> > real real real low stuff though.
> > 
> 
> 
>
>

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Re: [Hornlist] RE: stopped horn

[Herbert Foster]

Barry Tuckwell showed me some Bb stopped fingerings. Each horn varies, though.
On my horn 4th space E is flat anyway on the F side, and stopped F2 is flatter.
Bb23 works well, being sharper than the open F note.

Herb Foster
--- Reba McLaurin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I actually had a teacher that wanted me to play on the B flat side for
> stopping some above third space c.  She said some of the harmonics up
> there were better in tune on the B flat side...It was mostly for f
> sharps and g's I think.  I would never use the B flat side for the
> real real real low stuff though.
> 


   

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Re: [Hornlist] Mother Goose Suite - Mute Notation

[Herbert Foster]

Somewhere before that you'll find "Mettez les sourdines," which means put the
mute in. "Otez les sourdines" means take it out.

Herb Foster
--- Bill Gross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The group I am with just started work on the Mother Goose Suite.  We need
> help with the notation "Otez les sourdines."  Best we can figure "sourdines"
> is a muted passage, "san soordines" is un-muted.  Just don't have a clue on
> the other. 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
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RE: [Hornlist] 9 o'clock hole

[Herbert Foster]

Then there's the idiot (me) that drops his mute on your horn. Fortunately my
DePolis mute is soft, and the repair only cost me $15.

Herb Foster
--- G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've always been particularly nervous about leaving my
> horn sitting on a chair; that probably comes from
> laying asphalt all summer to earn enough money to buy
> my first horn out of high school. I have a very simple
> rule for myself..."if it's not in your face, it goes
> in the case."
> 
> Or at least in your hands.
> 
> I don't think there is anything in the world that
> makes me more nervous than seeing several thousand
> dollars worth of instrument sitting on a chair. Seems
> that string players are notorious for doing that.
> After all...it's the person that knocks it off the
> chair that will get stuck with the repair bill, not
> the idiot that left it there in the first place ;p
> 
> Gary
> 
> 
> 
> Get Firefox!!http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/central.html
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Re: [Hornlist] 9 o'clock hole

[Herbert Foster]

My wrist gets cramps just thinking about that: it doesn't twist that far. 

Hmm, maybe that's my trouble. I'm thinking with my wrist. There, Cabbaged
myself.

Herb Foster
--- Kjellrun Hestekin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm not quite 60 (getting close, though!), but as a beginner in 7th 
> grade, I was taught to put my right hand in the bell, palm up, touching 
> more or less between 8:00 and 10:00, so wear at 9:30 wouldn't be a 
> surprise. (but then, my band teacher was a bassoonist...)
> 
> Kjellrun
> 
> On 10-Aug-07, at 1:27 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Here's a question, perhaps for some of the older members on the 
> > list.  I do a lot of work on horns that are 60 - 100 years old and 
> > there's one thing I often see that always makes me scratch my head and 
> > wonder.
> > If there's a patched hole in the bell flare, it always seems to be 
> > on the opposite side from where I'd expect it to be.  For instance, I 
> > just got in a 90 year old Kruspe and if you look in the end of the 
> > bell with the leadpipe pointing up, the patch is at about 9:30 
> > (o'clock).  Now I can't find any hand position that I could wear the 
> > bell out there, other than just putting the palm of my hand there and 
> > holding the horn with it.
> > Anyway, I keep seeing the 9:00 patch on these older horns, and 
> > these are often horns that were played by people with very good 
> > professional jobs.  So, was there a hand position used in the "old 
> > days" that I don't know about?  Anybody remember something that their 
> > teacher's teacher's teacher mentioned about it?
> > The upside is, now I can play the horn for another 90 years with 
> > my hand on the 3:00 side before I wear that side of the bell out!
> >
> > - Steve Mumford
> > ___
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> >
> 
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Re: [Hornlist] Embouchure - lips- green grass

[Herbert Foster]

Good mixed metaphor. The point of my remarks was that we all have our issues
and that one size does not fit all. What works for you may not work for me and
vice versa. I do know that thick lips are not a barrier to success--consider
Louis Armstrong. Now who had very thin lips?

Herb Foster

Herb Foster
--- Larry Jellison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Herb Foster and Loren Meyhew wrote about the problems
> of "thin lips".  The grass on the other side of the
> fence, the land of thick lips, isn't a walk in the
> park either (sorry for mixed metaphors).  While thick
> lips might help with tone, the down side is that thick
> lips swell such that the embouchure position changes
> during playing-- where to aim with the embouchure to
> successfully hit notes does change depending on how
> long one has been playing. High notes are a struggle
> because the muscular collapsing of the embouchure
> orifice is difficult through that greater amount of
> soft flesh. Thick lipped players also need larger
> diameter mouthpieces that makes high horn playing more
> difficult.  Anyway, I notice that thin lipped players
> don't have as much facial grimace as do thick lipped
> players.  One saving grace of growing old (and I have
> been "growing" at this for quite some time), is that
> while the waistline increases, the lips thin out.
> 
> Having thick lips is like having fat feet.
> 
> Larry
> 
> 
>
>

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Re: [Hornlist] Embouchure

[Herbert Foster]

You got it right about thin lips, Loren. Someone I know (me) has less than 1/8
inch (3mm) vertical distance between the red edges of the upper and lower lips.
Einsetzen or rolling in are not an option and cause things like "no speakies."
I have found that Wendell Rider's "buzzy buzz" exercise on his website is
valuable to get the right setting. It cured my no speakie problem.

Herb Foster
--- Loren Mayhew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> A couple of other important points I forgot to make in my last append on
> this subject.
> 
>  
> 
> 1a. It is important in your embouchure set that the fleshy part of your lips
> do the vibrating. This makes for a full rich-bodied sound with less effort
> simply because the fleshy parts vibrate easier than the outer skin parts.
> People with "fat" lips actually have an advantage in playing the horn.
> People with thin lips, like me, should curl the lips outward as necessary to
> expose the fleshy part to do the vibrating. For us thin lippers, this is an
> additional muscle toning that we must develop.
> 
>  
> 
> 1b. The lips should be set on the mpc so that the lower lip takes most of
> the pressure leaving the upper lip to do most of the vibrating. This greatly
> helps endurance and control, especially in the upper registers.
> 
>  
> 
> Loren Mayhew
> 
> \@()
> 
> Finke Horns
> 
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> www.mayhews.us/CI/Finke
> 
> 011 1 (520) 289-0700
> 
>  
> 
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Re: [Hornlist] re: 4th of July D.C. Concert

[Herbert Foster]

All right, Curmudgeon (takes one to know one), I will tell you that the Star
Spangled Banner is unsingable--by untrained singers. The point is that its
tessitura should be put in the middle of the average singer's range--C to C.
The high note is too high, whereas the low note in Silent Night can be sung,
though not loudly. In addition, many arrangements have a high tessitura.
However, any half trained singer should have no trouble. So much for celebs.

Herb Foster
--- Howard Sanner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm a real rarity: a D.C. native.
> 
> It used to be that the Fourth of July concert on the Mall (we hadn't  
> aggrandized it to "National Mall" in those days) was just what Larry  
> Jellison suggests: a celebration of the nation. The performances were  
> by one or another service band, with one of the service choruses, and  
> maybe a "name" soloist. Music was the typical patriotic fare. Then  
> there were fireworks. I attended many of them with my parents.
> 
> The festivities started around dinner time. People would come to the  
> Mall and have a picnic dinner, then watch the fireworks. Now it's an  
> all-day extravaganza featuring performers and music that is, IMHO,  
> inappropriate to the occasion. What does the end of the 1812 Overture  
> have to do with Independence Day? Never mind "singers" who can't get  
> through the national anthem.
> 
> Don't tell me the national anthem is unsingable owing to its range. It  
> covers an octave and a fifth. Silent Night, which I've never heard  
> anyone claim wasn't singable, has a range of an octave and a fourth  
> (2nd note of "peace" down to last note of song), a major second less.
> 
> Howard "the C stands for Curmudgeon" Sanner
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 


   
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Re: [Hornlist] overseas transport IMPORTANT

[Herbert Foster]

I should think that removing the valve slides would help. You could wrap them
and put them with your clothes. While the slides are not as heavy as the
valves, they hang out there a distance from the braces and would put a big load
on them during a bump.

Herb Foster
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  
> In a message dated 6/30/2007 1:50:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL 
> PROTECTED] 
> writes:
> 
> Hello, more important than all the outside packing is it, to
> prevent the heavier valve section to rip off the body of the
> horn. To do so, you place a 4 x 2" piece of 0,5" thick moss
> rubber or other semi-hard & semi-soft piece between lower
> side of the valve section & the tuning slide on the back of
> the horn, some other wrapping material (airbubble sheet =
> usual packing mterial for fragile things) where you can
> squeeze it between horn & case inside & on top of the horn &
> the sides of the bell.
> 
> --
> Hans's advice is invaluable.  You must suspend the valve section.  Then 
> prevent other moving around and bumping into things or the case.  Make sure
> the 
> latches cannot come undone easily, and wrap it with a luggage strap.  
>  ..


  

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Re: [Hornlist] mouthpiece kit

[Herbert Foster]

It's the same virus that causes chicken pox. When you get chicken pox, the
virus settles in the nerve endings. When stressed, e.g. metal sensitivity or
sun, the cold sore erupts. 

Herb Foster, Purveyor of Useless Information

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Yes, but if you have an allegy to a metal then it can cause an eruption which
> can then become a site for a herpes eruption.  Switching to a delrin rim or
> having your mouthpiece or rim gold plated can help reduce cold sores
> immensely.
> 
> Dave Weiner
> Brass Arts Unlimited
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Jerry Houston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Horn List 
> Sent: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 8:36 am
> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] mouthpiece kit
> 
> 
> 
> sheldon kirshner wrote:
>  Chris Leuba, when he was principal with the CSO told me he used to get cold
>  sores from his mouthpiece so he replaced his rim with one of plastic of some
>  sort--perhaps it was Teflon, but I think it was pre-teflon--perhaps it was
>  nylon--which was modeled after his metal rim.  He said he was satisfied with
>  it, and no longer had trouble with cold sores.
> Interesting.  Cold sores are caused by a herpes simplex virus, aren't
> hey?
> __
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> 
> 
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Re: [Hornlist] Looking for Laskey Mouthpieces

[Herbert Foster]

If they have them. Last time I was up there, they were out.

Herb Foster
--- Nicholas Hartman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I know that Dillon music has them in stock for about $20 less than ordering
> them new from Laskey himself. 
> 
> - Original Message 
> From: Alex Camphouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: horn@music.memphis.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:30:06 PM
> Subject: [Hornlist] Looking for Laskey Mouthpieces
> 
> Hello horn world,
> 
> IÃÎ looking for a Laskey 775G and/or 80G.
> Anyone have one to sell (used)?
> Thanks.
> 
> Alex Camphouse
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> ___
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
>

> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 
> http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
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RE: [Hornlist] the matchstick trick and the acousticoil

[Herbert Foster]

You can get the effect of the Accousticoil for free by wrapping some thin
insulated wire around a thick pencil. Make a loose spiral about 1 inch in
length. I haven't tried an Accousticoil, but he wire spiral does have an
effect.

Herb Foster

--- "Carter, Jeffrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have recently changed horns, and the one I purchased came with one in it. 
> I can tell you that they do make a difference.  I found out that there had
> been one placed in the first valve slide (Bb side) in order to secure the
> high Bb I would suppose (not that it needed it).  I can't imagine any other
> reason.  I had some fellow DMA students and my teacher listen to me in a very
> large and medium room, simulating recital and concert stages.  The consensus
> was that the device seemed to deaden the sound (in the audience) while making
> the note seem more secure at the source.  We then spent far too much time
> trying it in every possible location.  It was extremely consistent.  It
> always seemed to deaden the sound that the audience hears while making the
> note seem tighter.  ALL THAT TO SAY.  It could be great, it could really
> suck...depending on the horn and player.  I personally didn't like it on my
> instrument, and to be honest, thought it played much better without the
> little plastic sleeve in there (esp the high Bb).  But, it is only 35 or so
> dollars...worth a try if you are interested I would say.
> 
> Jeff Carter
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of joey
> horn guy
> Sent: Mon 6/4/2007 10:43 PM
> To: The Horn List
> Subject: [Hornlist] the matchstick trick and the acousticoil
>  
> Speaking of the matchstick trick...I had a chance to try the 'acousticoil'
> several years back, and I have to admit it did seem to help center the notes
> and make some partials more secure.
>
>   Any thoughts on this product?
> 
> 
> 
>  
> -
> No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go 
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Re: [Hornlist] Ear overtones

[Herbert Foster]

You're close: the brain has fundamentals. That is, if you listen to the
harmonics of a note that is missing the fundamental, you hear the fundamental
anyway. The brain has a way of supplying missing information. Do you ever
notice the blind spot in each eye? They're there.

Herb Foster
--- Larry Jellison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Richard Hirsh wrote:
> 
> >>>Actually the human ear is very non-linear... Our
> ears definitely do NOT create harmonic overtones. The
> wave patterns inside the cochleus are extremely
> non-linear.<<< 
> _
> 
> My left ear tinnitus, with a fundamental of 4000 Hz,
> seems to have overtones.  Plus, those listening to an
> interval of a fifth sometimes claim to be able to hear
> the third fall in.  Maybe the brain and not the
> physical ear is causing these extra tones, but we seem
> to hear them.  Maybe the brain has overtones!
> 
> 
>
>
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Re: [Hornlist] tuning

[Herbert Foster]

While I basically agree with you, I will play Devil's Advocate (as if we didn't
have enough lawyers). The human being is the animal that can get used to
anything. As a result, many people find even temperament "right" and just
temperament "wrong." So these people's bodies accept only even tempered tuning,
probably at the expense of higher stress levels. I once quit a high level
community chorus partly because the director insisted on even tempered thirds.
I didn't care for the stress. She, by the way, had perfect pitch, which defined
for her where the pitch of a given note should be, regardless of the key.

Herb Foster
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Physically, we don't really have a choice about intonation.  Our ears
> create overtones based on whole number multiples of whatever frequency is
> being sounded.  We can't escape that.  This was understood as far back as the
> ancient Greeks.  That's why an in-tune interval is so satisfying.  Our bodies
> are not constructed to be able to accept tempered tuning!  
> 
> - Steve Mumford  
> ___
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Re: [Hornlist] C#--Db ?

[Herbert Foster]

I don't (Bah Humbug!). There's nothing like a chord that "locks" in so there
are no beats.

Note that Bach did NOT write for even temperament. He wrote for Well
Temperament, which is between just and even temperament.

Herb Foster
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> ...
> I'm with Bach--I like tempered pitch.
> 
> Bill Klingelhoffer
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Re: [Hornlist] Used horns in NYC

[Herbert Foster]

There's Dillon Music, http://www.dillonmusic.com/, in Woodbridge, NJ, not far
from NYC. They know brass and horns, and I send students and section mates
there.

Herb Foster
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> (not joke-related)
> 
> I have a niece who lives in NYC and would like to return
> to horn playing.   I would appreciate receiving some helpful
> hints about where/how to look for used, playable horns
> in NYC.
> 
> gotta go,
> Cabbage
> 
> 
> **
>  See what's free at 
> http://www.aol.com.
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Re: [Hornlist] RE: On Edge

[Herbert Foster]

And vinegar?

Herb Foster
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> ...
> ***
> I always try to write contributions that offer
> good, salad information.   Those who read my
> words carefully will discover that they are
> full of pith.
> 
> Gotta go,
> Cabbage
> 
> 
> **
>  See what's free at 
> http://www.aol.com.
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Re: [Hornlist] Spit valve problem: Ideas?

[Herbert Foster]

Question: How is duct tape like the Force:

Answer: They both have a dark side and a light side, and both hold the universe
together.

"Use the Duct Tape, Luke!"

Herb Foster
--- Carlisle Landel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ...
> Finally, remember Duct Tape, which is of course the major force  
> holding the universe together!  ;-)  (With apologies to non-US  
> readers who perhaps don't know of this miracle substance, or know it  
> by another name.)
> 
> Carlisle
> 

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Re: [Hornlist] Re: works for horn and wind ensemble

[Herbert Foster]

Well, that's because they were a bunch of peasants.

Herb Foster, who has a dictionary in every room
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> > David Maslanka wrote a concerto for 2 horns and hind ensemble.
> 
> When I first joined a hind ensemble they made me start with "Doe, a deer,
> a female deer."
> 
> ---Steve Tarter---
> 
> ___
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Re: [Hornlist] music ghost writers

[Herbert Foster]

Some movie score composers do their own orchestrating, and others have the
orchestrators do it. They work fairly closely with the directors, so ghost
writers usually don't get into the act. Of course they may "borrow" some music.
Composing movie music is an art in itself. Each cue is of a given length, and
enhances the emotional impact.

Herb Foster
--- Per Ottar Gjerstad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Dear List,
> 
> I may be wrong about this, but I believe that most movie score writers make 
> use of some sort of
> "short score" or "condensed score" when they do the actual writing of the 
> music.
> These scores usually contains (more or less detailed) instructions for the 
> orchestrators, who then use this short score when
> laying out the score that is actually used when playing and recording the 
> music.
> 
> 
> Per Ottar
> 
> 
> 
> Subject: RE: [Hornlist] music ghost writers
> 
> 
> > G.Mahler, R.Strauss, Korngold ...
> > 
> >
> > Subject: [Hornlist] music ghost writers
> >
> > idiocy and lousy arrangers aside, Is there someone who is
> > willing to concur without using names that some famous movie
> > score composers 'owe' their fame to ghost writers?
> >
> > or is this a question that should not be asked in public?
> > ___
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> >
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> >
> > 
> 
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RE: [Hornlist] Strap or Duck's Foot

[Herbert Foster]

Playing off-the-leg, like I do, balances the horn so that I need to pull with
the left arm just for zero pressure. I find that even with something like a
tennis grip or friction tape, that I tense up and use more pressure. With a
strap, I can relax and use appropriate pressure. YMMV.

Herb Foster
--- Jeremy Cucco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hmmm
> No mention of any tendency for excessive pressure.
> 
> In fact, I play with very little pressure (especially since I have a
> crown on my front top tooth).  I just find that the duck's foot
> *creates* pressure.  I also just don't *like* the pinky hook.  I just
> think there has to be a better way to balance the instrument than either
> the pinky hook (annoying) or duck's foot (pressure inducing).
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> 
> --
> 
> message: 20
> date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 04:48:08 -0700
> from: "Melvin Baldwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> subject: RE: [Hornlist] Strap or Duck's Foot
> 
> Jeremy,
> the Clebsch Strap will not cure your tendency for excessive pressure-but
> the 
> horn will feel secure and not slip AND your pinky will thank you!
> Melvin
> PS It needs to be installed by a skilled instrument repair person.
> 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.1/777 - Release Date: 4/26/2007
> 3:23 PM
>  
> 
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Re: [Hornlist] eBay: Horn Mouth pipes Brass Instrument Uncut 11/32"(item 220106548410 end time May-05-07 10:54:22 PDT)

[Herbert Foster]

That's what I thought, too. There is a bend for around the bell. They did come
from a music store. Remember, in the U.S. "horn" means anything you blow into,
including harmonica.

Herb Foster (I play horn, French horn)
--- Carl Bangs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think they go with a baritone or tuba, or some other creation of the 
> devil.
> 
> Carl
> 
> ...
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Leonard & Peggy Brown
> > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 6:08 PM
> > To: horn list memphis
> > Subject: [Hornlist] eBay: Horn Mouth pipes Brass Instrument
> > Uncut 11/32"(item 220106548410 end time May-05-07 10:54:22
> > PDT)
> >
> > Really... what are these anyway... look like they belong on
> > a motorcycle.
> >
> > LLB
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/Horn-Mouth-pipes-Brass-Instrument-Uncut-
> > 11-32_W0QQitemZ220106548410QQihZ012QQcategoryZ16215QQrdZ1QQc
> > mdZViewItem
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
> > 
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Re: [Hornlist] RE: Plating horns

[Herbert Foster]

Another solution to the green hands problem is just to cover the area the hands
touch. I have used packaging tape and nail polish successfully. The area is so
small that it does not affect the sound. Every month or so you remove and
reapply.

Herb Foster
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> If considering silver plating just the bell of the horn, again consider
> the amount of material that will be removed in preparing the bell for
> plating.  It used to be popular to plate the inside of the bell to
> "strengthen" the old metal and "protect" it from acid hands.  
> If the buffing and preparation removes 5 thousandths (possibly more) and
> the silver plating adds half a thousandth, I think you have a net loss, but
> then I wasn't a math major.  
> Look at the horns of your trumpet player friends and you'll see the
> effects of acid hands on silver plate.  It makes deep pits.  Raw brass tends
> to wear more evenly and not pit as badly.  Something to consider if you have
> acidic hands.  Green hand, or holes in the bell?  
> 
> - Steve Mumford
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Re: [Hornlist] The Instrument Encyclopedia Database

[Herbert Foster]

Through the (missing) mouthpiece, of course. The lead pipe, with pigtail, goes
ends at the bell, which would be in rain-catcher position. Those are Stölzel
valves. Note that the lead pipe goes into the bottom of the 3rd valve.
It must be an early peck horn.

Herb Foster
--- Leonard & Peggy Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You play this how?
> 
> http://www.si.umich.edu/chico/instrument/fullrecord.phtml?id=123
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Re: [Hornlist] Advice for a Noisy H179

[Herbert Foster]

Most of the (amateur) hornists I know do 1), but not 2). If anything, 2),
oiling the shaft on the stop arm is more important: that's where the wear and
noise occurs. Get a bottle with a needle, it's less messy.

And yes, Ken, getting some light, valve oil in the rotors is also extremely
important. It keeps the green carbonate monster away.

Herb Foster
--- Jay Kosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ...
> The oil for the bearings must be placed in 2 places on each valve:
> 1) on the bearing end under the screw-on valve cap
> 2) a drop in the small gap between the 'swing-arm' and the bearing on the
> other end of the valve - use an eye-dropper, or an extension tube on the
> oil bottle.
> ...

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Re: [Hornlist] Playing with earplugs

[Herbert Foster]

When it comes to protecting the ears, there's no question: use the plugs. Every
time your ears ring, you've done some damage.

Etymotic http://www.etymotic.com sells musician's earplugs for $12. I use them.
I also use them in noisy environments so I can hear speech more easily. They
have a flat frequency response, so you can hear the music. They fit deeply in
the ear canal, so you get less of the drumming you get with foam plugs. Buy the
strap too. That way you can wear them around your neck and jam them in just
before the loud stuff starts, e.g. a Sousa march. If I were a professional
musician, I'd probably spend the hundreds of dollars for fitted earplugs.

Herb Foster
--- Anna Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello all,
>   
> I thought I would ask the lists' opinions on playing with earplugs.  In my
> orchestra, my section has been put directly in front of the drumset and toms
> for Bernstein's Symphonic Dances from West Side Story. We are using
> reflectors for our sound, but nothing for our ears.  We're also playing the
> musical soon, and I'm sure that in the pit, we'll not escape the percussion,
> either.
>
>   I've recently purchased earplugs from the local guitar shop, since the
> percussion was starting to hurt my ears.  They are the kind developed to
> reduce decibels, but not to the point where you cannot hear (I believe the
> rating is a 6dB reduction).  I've found that I do not have problems hearing
> the orchestra while using them, but I don't hear pitch as well.  (Could be
> because nobody else is in tune, either.)  Have any of you used these before? 
> If so, what did you do to adjust to the difference in sound and correct your
> pitch?   
>
>   Thanks,
>
>   Anna
> 
>  
> -
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Stuck in high range limbo

[Herbert Foster]

Depends what one means by "old." I picked up the horn again 12 years ago and
had a one octave range. Now I'm 74 and am comfortable with A above the staff in
a concert situation (Brahms 2), as well as the fundamental E (Shosty 5). It
gets better every year. This is for encouragement, not bragging. Yeah, it's a
challenge, especially with limited practice time.

Herb Foster
--- Larry Jellison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The help comes from finding small improvements from a
> dozen different aspects of horn playing, including
> finding the optimal horn/mpc combination,
> experimenting with embouchure/facial muscle
> positioning and mpc placement, experimenting with
> chin-mouth-throat positions, applying breath support
> with balance between air pressure and air volume,
> practicing earnestly, daily, with much play time in
> the high range, applying mental concentration, and,
> praying.  Apply all your inner resources,
> intelligence, and wiles to climb into the high range. 
> Don't let "old" age become an excuse.  Once those high
> notes start to squeak out, continue working to develop
> a full and free sounding tone.  Don't give up and do
> have fun with the challenge.
> 
> Larry
> 
> 
>  
>

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Re: [Hornlist] Stuck in RANGE LIMBO?

[Herbert Foster]

Hey, if it works... One person's meat is another's poison. The flat chin is
right for most, including me, but perhaps not all. I also have considerations
about the tone you get with the rolled in lips. Unless you have heavy lips, the
tone might be thin and harsh. Record yourself in a hall. Once you have found
your high range, you could find yourself becoming more "conventional."

I'm guessing that Farkas, being an experimentalist, probably tried this
technique, but found that it didn't work for him.

Good luck on your lonely quest. You won't get much agreement. Been there, done
that.

Herb Foster
--- Valerie WELLS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I dropped out of music after my sophomore year in college 34 years ago,
> frustrated that I hadn't developed the upper range I needed.  When I retired
> from nursing & came back to horn a little over a year ago, I started
> practicing 2 to 3 hours a day.  W/i a few months I was playing as well as I
> had my sophomore year at LSU, but I still didn't have any security or
> endurance in the upper register.  I was doing everything Farkas & my private
> instructor (who is, BTW, a renowned musician & instructor in our area) told
> me to do, all to no avail.  
> 
> Since all the info I found to help horn players with range problems was more
> of the same old stuff I'd been told way back in the 1970s, I decided to look
> outside the horn world for help with my range problems.  I stumbled upon a
> website written by a Texas trumpet teacher, Jeff Smiley.  He claimed to have
> a put together a development system based on the works of several famous
> trumpeters (Gordon, Maggio, Callet & others) and his own experiences that
> helps his EVERY student develop upper range, endurance, power, etc.  Since I
> wasn't progressing I decided I had little to lose by trying Smiley's program,
> even if it didn't help!  I ordered his book & began his program.  W/I a few
> weeks, my upper register opened up all the way to high C.  I found myself
> able to hit any note in the upper octave ANY time I attempted w/o excessive
> pressure or strain.  Wow!  What a miracle that was for me!  Now, 8 months
> later, it's only a matter of developing fluency up there.  I finally have the
> range & endurance that was missing all those years ago.  If any of you ever
> have a few minutes to spare, look up Jeff Smiley's website,
> http://trumpetteacher.net/ .  You might find
> something that helps you or your students who seem forever stuck in that
> horrid place: range limbo. 
> 
> I've introduced Jeff Smiley's program to four other horn players, two
> professional, 2 amateur & all have benefited in some way from it. My private
> instructor uses parts of it daily and she's introduced it to a trumpet
> instructor in our area who says Jeff Smiley is "spot on."
> 
> Looking back, I've compared Farkas pedagogy to Smiley's & found that much of
> what Farkas forbids (rolling in, breath "shoving", etc.) is exactly what
> Smiley employs to develop range in young trumpet students!  And, some of what
> Farkas encourages (flat chin, smiling pucker embouchure, etc.) are actually
> discouraged by Smiley.  No wonder I had such problems! 
> 
> This leaves me asking the question: What the heck's wrong with horn pedagogy?
>  Am I missing something out there or is horn instruction stuck somewhere the
> dark ages?!   
> 
> Valerie, come back horn player in
> Tacoma___
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Re: [Hornlist] Holton improvements

[Herbert Foster]

The tuning slide should bring it down to 440--unless you play on the sharp side
of the slot. However, a repair person should be able to add legs to the tuning
slide, that is, to lengthen it. 

I have the opposite problem: I play on the low side, and I can't get up to 442.
Shortening the horn is harder.

Herb Foster
--- Jonathan Yoder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello--I own a 1978 H-180 which is okay, but plays sharp (it's tuned to 442,
> I understand).  What are some improvements (not too $$$) that can be done to
> the horn?  A typical one is a new lead pipe (Lawson?).  Others?Jonathan
> YoderCentral Illinois
> _



 

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Re: Re: [Hornlist] RE: Duets

[Herbert Foster]

Thanks, everyone for the suggestions. I will start him on the music he's
playing in school anyway.

Herb Foster
--- Anna Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Often, beginning band books have some duets in them.  Also, some methods have
> extra volumes of duets that work for any instrumentation (like the horn and
> saxophone duets my friend and I played in church in fifth grade).  I'd check
> what band method your student is using, and see if there is anything that
> goes along with it.  
>
>   Anna
>
>  
>
--
> 
> Here's a request from the other end of difficulty. I have volunteered 
> to teach
> a beginning kid--lesson fees to our church. What dead simple duets are
> available with recognizable tunes? He wouldn't recognize hymn tunes, 
> though. 
> 
> Herb Foster
> 
> 
> 
>  
> -
> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels 
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
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Re: [Hornlist] RE: Duets

[Herbert Foster]

Here's a request from the other end of difficulty. I have volunteered to teach
a beginning kid--lesson fees to our church. What dead simple duets are
available with recognizable tunes? He wouldn't recognize hymn tunes, though. 

Herb Foster


 

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