Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...)
In listserv%200901070759523116.0...@bama.ua.edu, on 01/07/2009 at 07:59 AM, Walt Farrell wfarr...@us.ibm.com said: Thus, it was not -our- management making that policy, but an outside body making the policy, and we had to adhere to it or show why it should not apply to us. The real question is what you do when you are complying with the published external policies but the external auditors claim that you aren't. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DLL and PDS(E) (was: Survey says...)
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:10:49 -0500, Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com wrote: But don't any DLL's dealing with long-name elements or interfaces need to be stored in a PDSE? Or does the pre-link step always resolve that issue? The pre-link (EDCPRLK) does handle the long-name stuff (using IMPORT members BTW). And does your statement also apply to C++ DLL's or only to PL/1 or COBOL DLL's? It certainly does apply for C (because that is what we are doing). I am rather sure it works for C++ and I see no reason why it would not work for PL/1 and COBOL; although I never tried. TIA for decreasing my ignorance quotient. You're welcome. Jantje. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...)
Well, yes, but there is a tiny little detail that is drop dead important. To 'document' is defined as having management involvement and approval. With that, comes accountability. Legal accountability. Many PHB's are so because they are skilled at misdirecting and managing perceptions as to is responsible for what. Consider the PHB team that intentionally runs a loose shop and eventually gets bit. Their first line of defense is blaming those airhead techies that should have known better and should not have allowed that to happen. Never mind that the firewalls were cut from the budget as was training. And that seems to work somewhat. Witness the number of former high management now sitting in prison. Just my $0.02 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...) In 5411f4eec9c68f4ca6f78821e685165a027dd...@htxmail.jhacorp.com, on 01/06/2009 at 04:11 PM, Hal Merritt hmerr...@jackhenry.com said: In many parts of the world, auditor behavior is spelled out in ISO 9000. Crap is okay as long as you document that it is crap. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 15:25:57 -0600, Tom Marchant m42tom- ibmm...@yahoo.com wrote: While I agree with you that auditors *should* only report compliance, that is certainly not always the case. I have been in environments where management was afraid to challenge the auditors. As a result, the auditor's word was law. BTDT, GTTS. I have also been in environments where it was the auditors who made the rules because no one else knew what the rules should be. Of course, neither did the auditors. BT2, GTTS. I know that there others on this list who have had similar experiences. Indeed. Also been in shops where everyone but the auditors did the most / all of the auditors job for them, because the particular breed did not even know how to spell MVS (OS/390, z/OS, etc.). How reliable is the audit when the department being audited collects all the evidents and presents to the auditor to prove compliance? Maybe that's what got Satyam in trouble... Perhaps that's the subject of yet another survey. Perhaps. Art Gutowski Ford Motor Company -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
I have been in environments where management was afraid to challenge the auditors. As a result, the auditor's word was law. BTDT, GTTS. That is the worst possible scenario. I've always challenged auditors, and documented all conversations to my management. Haven't been fired over that. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DLL and PDS(E) (was: Survey says...)
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:28:18 -0500, Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com wrote: 6) Cannot do that here. DLL requires PDSE, I don't belief that to be true... We are using DLLs (a lot) and have stored the corresponding load modules (because in the end, that is what it becomes at the end of the compile/pre-link/link chain) in regular PDS as well as in PDSE. Makes no difference; works either way. Cheers, Jantje. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
SV: Survey says...
4!! -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För P S Skickat: den 6 januari 2009 16:03 Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Ämne: Survey says... I'm trying to judge the level of penetration of the (relatively) new DLL technology. So without getting into theology or categorical imperatives, I'd be grateful if y'all could answer this question: If you were told that to use a feature of a vendor product on z/OS, you need to put some code in a DLL, would your reaction be: 1) No problem. 2) I think I know how to do that. 3) I should know how to do that; guess I'd better learn. 4) I don't want to do that. 5) What's a DLL? 6) (Something else) Thanks in advance! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
SV: Survey says...
But can You intermix non-DDLs and DLLs ? In the same linkedit step ? Or in the same load module ? (Thats our problem !) ;) Regards, Thomas Berg __ Thomas Berg Specialist IT-U SWEDBANK -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För Steve Comstock Skickat: den 6 januari 2009 16:44 Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Ämne: Re: Survey says... O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C] wrote: 5 followed by 3 ad We can fix that. Our 3.5 day course, Secrets of Inter-Language Communication in z/OS covers coding techniques in four languages (Assembler, COBOL, PL/I, and C), static and dynamic calls, passing and receivng parameters, and how to create and use DLLs. You can create DLLs in all four languages, and you can invoke a DLL from all four languages, even if the DLL was written in a different language. Details at: http://www.trainersfriend.com/Language_Environment_courses/m52 0descr.htm Alternatively, we have a one day course that just focuses on the DLL part: Creating and Using DLLs in z/OS; see: http://www.trainersfriend.com/Language_Environment_courses/m52 5descr.htm /ad From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of P S [zosw...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:03 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Survey says... I'm trying to judge the level of penetration of the (relatively) new DLL technology. So without getting into theology or categorical imperatives, I'd be grateful if y'all could answer this question: If you were told that to use a feature of a vendor product on z/OS, you need to put some code in a DLL, would your reaction be: 1) No problem. 2) I think I know how to do that. 3) I should know how to do that; guess I'd better learn. 4) I don't want to do that. 5) What's a DLL? 6) (Something else) Thanks in advance! Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques == Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS == == application developer toolkits. Sample code in four== == programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile, == == bind and test. == == http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html== -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Hal Merritt In many parts of the world, auditor behavior is spelled out in ISO 9000. And, as I recall, that behavior is much like Ted's posts. Not so in the US, it would seem. I wonder if that would account for the differing experiences? To be fair, not all of the silliness is coming from the auditors. But they are embracing it and ramming it down any handy throat. Indeed. If management merely rubber-stamps whatever recommendations or suggestions auditors make, it certainly can create the appearance that the auditors are running the show. That doesn't change the facts that management makes policy and auditors report on compliance with policy, and that if the policy is wrong it's not the auditors' heads that will roll. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...)
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:59:45 -0600, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote: Indeed. If management merely rubber-stamps whatever recommendations or suggestions auditors make, it certainly can create the appearance that the auditors are running the show. That doesn't change the facts that management makes policy and auditors report on compliance with policy, and that if the policy is wrong it's not the auditors' heads that will roll. While I generally support the position that auditors should not make policy, having worked at a national bank previously I think there is an aspect of this discussion that no one has mentioned yet. There can be different levels of policy. For example, when the national bank examiners (aka, auditors) visited us they conducted audits according to the policies established by the national body that chartered/insured our bank. (That was a long time ago, so I'm not sure what body they were representing, but the idea is right, I think.) When they made findings based on thse national policies, we could (and did) argue some of them, but primarily we had to comply or demonstrate how we had some compensating factor that addressed their concerns. Thus, it was not -our- management making that policy, but an outside body making the policy, and we had to adhere to it or show why it should not apply to us. Our internal auditors, on the other hand, did audit us according to our management-specified policies. Of course, I suppose one could argue that one of our management's policies was comply to the national examiners' policies, and in that sense it was still our management setting the policy. But they had little choice in that, nor in what that externally applied policy required. The same applies today with policies set by Visa, Mastercard, etc. -- Walt Farrell (speaking as a former banker, not in my usual role as an IBMer) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SV: Survey says...
Thomas Berg wrote: But can You intermix non-DDLs and DLLs ? In the same linkedit step ? Or in the same load module ? (Thats our problem !) ;) Regards, Thomas Berg __ Thomas Berg Specialist IT-U SWEDBANK No. From a single module, dynamic calls are either all DLL or all non-DLL. But you can combine dynamic calls and static calls from a single module. or you can dynamically call a module that in turn can do DLL calls and dynamically call a different module that can do non-DLL calls. It all depends on your application. Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques == Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS == == application developer toolkits. Sample code in four== == programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile, == == bind and test. == == http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html== -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...)
There can be different levels of policy. For example, when the national bank examiners (aka, auditors) visited us they conducted audits according to the policies established by the national body that chartered/insured our bank. It's the same in Canada. But, the examiners don't make the policy either. They just report on it. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SV: Survey says...
Thats true, but with truly mixing and dynamic calls you need a DLL and a no-DLL version of all modules, which is highly inconvenient and causes a lot of grief. LE supports mixing of XPLINK and non-XPLINK modules, why the heck it doesn't support mixing of DLL and no-DLL modules? That would make life in mixing COBOL and Java a lot easier. Denis. -Original Message- From: Steve Comstock st...@trainersfriend.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 3:02 pm Subject: Re: SV: Survey says... Thomas Berg wrote:? But can You intermix non-DDLs and DLLs ?? In the same linkedit step ?? Or in the same load module ?? (Thats our problem !)? ;)? Regards,? Thomas Berg __? Thomas Berg Specialist IT-U SWEDBANK? ? No. From a single module, dynamic calls are either? all DLL or all non-DLL. But you can combine dynamic? calls and static calls from a single module. or? you can dynamically call a module that in turn can? do DLL calls and dynamically call a different module? that can do non-DLL calls. It all depends on your? application.? ? Kind regards,? ? -Steve Comstock? The Trainer's Friend, Inc.? ? 303-393-8716? http://www.trainersfriend.com? ? ? z/OS Application development made easier? ? * Our classes include? ? + How things work? ? + Programming examples with realistic applications? ? + Starter / skeleton code? ? + Complete working programs? ? + Useful utilities and subroutines? ? + Tips and techniques? ? == Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS ==? == application developer toolkits. Sample code in four==? == programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile, ==? == bind and test. ==? == http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html==? ? --? For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,? send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO? Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...)
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:24:47 +, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote: There can be different levels of policy. For example, when the national bank examiners (aka, auditors) visited us they conducted audits according to the policies established by the national body that chartered/insured our bank. It's the same in Canada. But, the examiners don't make the policy either. They just report on it. Agreed, but my point was that it's not necessarily -your- policy (or your management's policy) that they're reporting on. The thread had gotten into arguing why your management accepted the findings if they were't according to the policy they had set. Unfortunately, some times policies are set by external organizations, and your management has less control in that case. -- Walt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DLL and PDS(E) (was: Survey says...)
Interesting statement. Mea culpa if I have mis-remembered or mis-read the FM's on DLL implementation. I will have to go back and re-read those FM's for my own (re)education. But don't any DLL's dealing with long-name elements or interfaces need to be stored in a PDSE? Or does the pre-link step always resolve that issue? And does your statement also apply to C++ DLL's or only to PL/1 or COBOL DLL's? TIA for decreasing my ignorance quotient. Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jan MOEYERSONS Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:09 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: DLL and PDS(E) (was: Survey says...) On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:28:18 -0500, Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com wrote: 6) Cannot do that here. DLL requires PDSE, I don't belief that to be true... We are using DLLs (a lot) and have stored the corresponding load modules (because in the end, that is what it becomes at the end of the compile/pre-link/link chain) in regular PDS as well as in PDSE. Makes no difference; works either way. Cheers, Jantje. This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
SV: SV: Survey says...
Yes. But the problem we had was an (eventual) environment where modules existed in both DLL and non-DLL versions (and DLL and non-DLL applications), where there was a need to call between them and be linked together. The typical problem situation is when You are linking together a runtime load module with both DLL and non-DLL modules and You must choose the right version for each module depending on the needs. We found that the behaviour of the binder was (for us) unpredictable (or not working for our needs). Regards, Thomas Berg __ Thomas Berg Specialist IT-U SWEDBANK -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För Steve Comstock Skickat: den 7 januari 2009 15:03 Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Ämne: Re: SV: Survey says... Thomas Berg wrote: But can You intermix non-DDLs and DLLs ? In the same linkedit step ? Or in the same load module ? (Thats our problem !) ;) Regards, Thomas Berg __ Thomas Berg Specialist IT-U SWEDBANK No. From a single module, dynamic calls are either all DLL or all non-DLL. But you can combine dynamic calls and static calls from a single module. or you can dynamically call a module that in turn can do DLL calls and dynamically call a different module that can do non-DLL calls. It all depends on your application. Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques == Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS == == application developer toolkits. Sample code in four== == programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile, == == bind and test. == == http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html== -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...)
On 7 Jan 2009 06:00:59 -0800, wfarr...@us.ibm.com (Walt Farrell) wrote: While I generally support the position that auditors should not make policy, having worked at a national bank previously I think there is an aspect of this discussion that no one has mentioned yet. But many times policies are set by lawyers, interpreting laws created by politicians. The auditors follow the lawyers' guidelines. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DLL and PDS(E) (was: Survey says...)
The prelink step is for resolving the long name issues. I did not work with C++ but it works for PL/I and COBOL DLLs. -Original Message- From: Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 4:10 pm Subject: Re: DLL and PDS(E) (was: Survey says...) Interesting statement. Mea culpa if I have mis-remembered or mis-read the FM's on DLL implementation. I will have to go back and re-read those FM's for my own (re)education. But don't any DLL's dealing with long-name elements or interfaces need to be stored in a PDSE? Or does the pre-link step always resolve that issue? And does your statement also apply to C++ DLL's or only to PL/1 or COBOL DLL's? TIA for decreasing my ignorance quotient. Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jan MOEYERSONS Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:09 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: DLL and PDS(E) (was: Survey says...) On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:28:18 -0500, Farley, Peter x23353 peter.far...@broadridge.com wrote: 6) Cannot do that here. DLL requires PDSE, I don't belief that to be true... We are using DLLs (a lot) and have stored the corresponding load modules (because in the end, that is what it becomes at the end of the compile/pre-link/link chain) in regular PDS as well as in PDSE. Makes no difference; works either way. Cheers, Jantje. This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...)
---snip--- Audits, especially external audits, carry a lot of weight. The enforcement does not come from the auditors, but the audits do not seem to be questioned. And the audit groups seem to have their own SME which in some cases really stretch the definition of expert. --unsnip As RACF Administrator, I suffered through a security audit in 1989. The result, as reported to senior management, essentially declared me incompetent to hand out towels in the Men's Room. Naturally, senior management went ballistic. But I was given a copy of the report and invited to write a rebuttal, which I did, point by point. It turns out that things weren't anywhere near as bad as the report made them out. They had used a hole in a proprietary software package to bypass all security. When I brought this up to the vendor involved, it was fixed in less than 72 hours. Other points in the report were rebutted by reasoned and truthful argument. (They spent a week trying to break in from outside, using our defined outside interface. They couldn't even keep our computer on the phone long enough to try a userid/password breaker, a fine tribute to our communications staff.) Again, in 2001, I was subjected to a security audit. This time was different; vastly different. The gentleman that was detailed to do the audit had just been to RACF class, at IBM, and had a LOT of misconceptions and mistaken ideas. We developed a friendly rival relationship. He would make an allegation of a hole or potential breach and I would prove him either right or wrong. Loser bought a steak lunch for the winner. He was there for 2 weeks and I ate steak lunches for the entire two weeks, at his expense. (Or his company's expense.) We parted friends and he learned a great deal about the ins and outs of RACF. I consider that I helped his carreer development and he forced me to think hard about how we did things. Moral of the story: not all auditors are ogres; some of them are actually human. (I never did disclose any actual password to him and he was smart enough not to ask. Even with orders for full cooperation, I refuse to disclose passwords, to ANYONE.) -- Rick -- Remember that if you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
In 110562328-1231275171-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-9239853...@bxe348.bisx.prod.on.blackberry, on 01/06/2009 at 08:52 PM, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca said: That's the point. It's not their requirements; it's those determined by the company, through SME's. Every time someone says I don't believe in theories, another theory dies. I've never been in an audit where the people described as auditors played by your rules[1]. Yes, auditors can be a PITA, but they are a necessary 'evil'. A good auditor is simply necessary, not a necessary evil. An incompetent auditor is simply evil, not a necessary evil. In either case, upper management or government determine what power they have, not your rules. [1] They might be more effective and more useful at in promoting their nominal goal, but we (TINW) have no control over that. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...)
In 5411f4eec9c68f4ca6f78821e685165a027dd...@htxmail.jhacorp.com, on 01/06/2009 at 04:11 PM, Hal Merritt hmerr...@jackhenry.com said: In many parts of the world, auditor behavior is spelled out in ISO 9000. Crap is okay as long as you document that it is crap. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Survey says...
I'm trying to judge the level of penetration of the (relatively) new DLL technology. So without getting into theology or categorical imperatives, I'd be grateful if y'all could answer this question: If you were told that to use a feature of a vendor product on z/OS, you need to put some code in a DLL, would your reaction be: 1) No problem. 2) I think I know how to do that. 3) I should know how to do that; guess I'd better learn. 4) I don't want to do that. 5) What's a DLL? 6) (Something else) Thanks in advance! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
5 - What's a DLL? On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:03 AM, P S zosw...@gmail.com wrote: I'm trying to judge the level of penetration of the (relatively) new DLL technology. So without getting into theology or categorical imperatives, I'd be grateful if y'all could answer this question: If you were told that to use a feature of a vendor product on z/OS, you need to put some code in a DLL, would your reaction be: 1) No problem. 2) I think I know how to do that. 3) I should know how to do that; guess I'd better learn. 4) I don't want to do that. 5) What's a DLL? 6) (Something else) Thanks in advance! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems 1700 Summit Lake Drive Tallahassee, FL. 32317 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
5 followed by 3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of P S [zosw...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:03 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Survey says... I'm trying to judge the level of penetration of the (relatively) new DLL technology. So without getting into theology or categorical imperatives, I'd be grateful if y'all could answer this question: If you were told that to use a feature of a vendor product on z/OS, you need to put some code in a DLL, would your reaction be: 1) No problem. 2) I think I know how to do that. 3) I should know how to do that; guess I'd better learn. 4) I don't want to do that. 5) What's a DLL? 6) (Something else) Thanks in advance! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
6) Cannot do that here. DLL requires PDSE, and homegrown SDLC systems here do not support PDSE. (That's System Development Life Cycle, not Synchronous Data Link Control). Not all shops use one of the major SDLC systems due to their exorbitant cost. Your target audience must have auditor-approved tools to produce a DLL before they can program it. HTH Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of P S Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:03 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Survey says... I'm trying to judge the level of penetration of the (relatively) new DLL technology. So without getting into theology or categorical imperatives, I'd be grateful if y'all could answer this question: If you were told that to use a feature of a vendor product on z/OS, you need to put some code in a DLL, would your reaction be: 1) No problem. 2) I think I know how to do that. 3) I should know how to do that; guess I'd better learn. 4) I don't want to do that. 5) What's a DLL? 6) (Something else) Thanks in advance! This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
Hi RS, 1. BobL -- This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. OppenheimerFunds may, at its sole discretion, monitor, review, retain and/or disclose the content of all email communications. == -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C] wrote: 5 followed by 3 ad We can fix that. Our 3.5 day course, Secrets of Inter-Language Communication in z/OS covers coding techniques in four languages (Assembler, COBOL, PL/I, and C), static and dynamic calls, passing and receivng parameters, and how to create and use DLLs. You can create DLLs in all four languages, and you can invoke a DLL from all four languages, even if the DLL was written in a different language. Details at: http://www.trainersfriend.com/Language_Environment_courses/m520descr.htm Alternatively, we have a one day course that just focuses on the DLL part: Creating and Using DLLs in z/OS; see: http://www.trainersfriend.com/Language_Environment_courses/m525descr.htm /ad From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of P S [zosw...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:03 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Survey says... I'm trying to judge the level of penetration of the (relatively) new DLL technology. So without getting into theology or categorical imperatives, I'd be grateful if y'all could answer this question: If you were told that to use a feature of a vendor product on z/OS, you need to put some code in a DLL, would your reaction be: 1) No problem. 2) I think I know how to do that. 3) I should know how to do that; guess I'd better learn. 4) I don't want to do that. 5) What's a DLL? 6) (Something else) Thanks in advance! Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com z/OS Application development made easier * Our classes include + How things work + Programming examples with realistic applications + Starter / skeleton code + Complete working programs + Useful utilities and subroutines + Tips and techniques == Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS == == application developer toolkits. Sample code in four== == programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile, == == bind and test. == == http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html== -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
5 followed by 6 (if I must learn this then I guess I will). Joe Aulph, Senior Systems Programmer: 850-487-8945 joe_au...@dcf.state.fl.us P S zosw...@gmail.co M To Sent by: IBM IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Mainframe cc Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua Subject .edu Survey says... 01/06/2009 10:03 AM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List ibm-m...@bama.ua .edu I'm trying to judge the level of penetration of the (relatively) new DLL technology. So without getting into theology or categorical imperatives, I'd be grateful if y'all could answer this question: If you were told that to use a feature of a vendor product on z/OS, you need to put some code in a DLL, would your reaction be: 1) No problem. 2) I think I know how to do that. 3) I should know how to do that; guess I'd better learn. 4) I don't want to do that. 5) What's a DLL? 6) (Something else) Thanks in advance! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
Your target audience must have auditor-approved tools to produce a DLL before they can program it. 1. Why? 2. Auditors don't approve; they report on compliance. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
We can fix that. I hate ads! Also, must everybody reply to the list for surveys? - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:37 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Survey says... Your target audience must have auditor-approved tools to produce a DLL before they can program it. 1. Why? Because without using an approved tool a program/DLL cannot be put into Production. Developers only turn over programs to QA and Operations, they are not allowed to put them into production themselves. There is only one path to perform that turnover, and only that approved path can be used. Here that path does not include PDSE's. Hence no DLL's are possible. 2. Auditors don't approve; they report on compliance. Maybe that's how it works where you live. It is different elsewhere. Peter This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
1. Why? Because without using an approved tool a program/DLL cannot be put into Production. Developers only turn over programs to QA and Operations, they are not allowed to put them into production themselves. There is only one path to perform that turnover, and only that approved path can be used. Here that path does not include PDSE's. Hence no DLL's are possible. Okay! Your answer contributed nothing towards a definitive answer. Almost all shops can only turn over from development through QA/OPS. So, that is irrelevent to the issue of DLL's. 2. Auditors don't approve; they report on compliance. Maybe that's how it works where you live. It is different elsewhere. True auditors just report on compliance. SME's define. Compliance officers enforce. Anything else is not a true separation of duties and is a conflict of interest. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
Well, I suppose one could say that they report on how well you comply with -their- requirements. One could also say that auditors don't approve. They do insist, though, and report perceived transgressions to your customers as heinous crimes against humanity. We are Audit. You will be made to comply. Resistance is Futile -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 1:37 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Survey says... ..snip 2. Auditors don't approve; they report on compliance. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
Yes, but who audits the auditors? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:37 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Survey says... True auditors just report on compliance. SME's define. Compliance officers enforce. Anything else is not a true separation of duties and is a conflict of interest. - NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
Well, I suppose one could say that they report on how well you comply with -their- requirements. That's the point. It's not their requirements; it's those determined by the company, through SME's.m One could also say that auditors don't approve. They do insist, though, and report perceived transgressions to your customers as heinous crimes against humanity. Most, if not all, auditors are bound by confidentiality agreements. So, they can only report to the higher ups. 1. You are giving them too much authority. 2. You are giving them too few ethics. If you were working as a consultant, setting up/fixing a system, would you report the 'stupid' configs to their customers, as 'heinous crimes against humanity'? Yes, auditors can be a PITA, but they are a necessary 'evil'. And, in most companies, they cannot enforce anything, only report. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
Yes, but who audits the auditors? Qui custodius, costodianes? People are allowed to re-but anything in an auditor report. If they are inaccurate (PC for lying), there is always an out. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...)
I guess our mangement forgot to read the definitions. And come to think of it, that has been true in every shop I've seen. Yes. But, who carries the hammer? Audits, especially external audits, carry a lot of weight. The enforcement does not come from the auditors, but the audits do not seem to be questioned. Then your company is missing something in due diligence. Any finding can (and, sometimes must) be questioned. If not, due diligence arises again (or wimpiness). And the audit groups seem to have their own SME which in some cases really stretch the definition of expert. Again, due diligence. Accept bad findings, curl up your toes, go belly-up and 6 feet under, or fight back and defend your position and job. If you're going to lose it fighting, you're probably going to lose it accepting. If they're accurate, suck it up and accept. An audit finding is not necessarily gospel! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:43:51 +, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote: ... Also, must everybody reply to the list for surveys? ... I believe Darren's rules forbade us from resonding on-list to surveys, but I think this is one survey that is worth having public responses. I expected the majority of responses to be 1 or 2. I was relieved to see some 3s and 5s. This tells me that I'm not alone in my ignorance and others might learn from the answers to bonehead questions I might ask. I see this as a good thing. Pat O'Keefe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
---snip P S wrote: I'm trying to judge the level of penetration of the (relatively) new DLL technology. So without getting into theology or categorical imperatives, I'd be grateful if y'all could answer this question: If you were told that to use a feature of a vendor product on z/OS, you need to put some code in a DLL, would your reaction be: 1) No problem. 2) I think I know how to do that. 3) I should know how to do that; guess I'd better learn. 4) I don't want to do that. 5) What's a DLL? 6) (Something else) Thanks in advance! ---unsnip-- My answer would fall in category 6. I would be demanding detailed instructions on how to accomplish this. -- Rick -- Remember that if you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...)
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:06:01 +, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote: I guess our mangement forgot to read the definitions. And come to think of it, that has been true in every shop I've seen. Yes. But, who carries the hammer? The management that called for the audits in the first place. They have no way of evaluating the supposed SMEs, etc. ... Then your company is missing something in due diligence. Uh, yes, I'd say that describes us pretty well. I think the FDIC already commented on that pretty well. :-) or maybe :-( ... Pat O'Keefe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:52:55 +, Ted MacNEIL wrote: Most, if not all, auditors are bound by confidentiality agreements. So, they can only report to the higher ups. ... And, in most companies, they cannot enforce anything, only report. I don't suppose you have any data to support those assertions, do you? While I agree with you that auditors *should* only report compliance, that is certainly not always the case. I have been in environments where management was afraid to challenge the auditors. As a result, the auditor's word was law. I have also been in environments where it was the auditors who made the rules because no one else knew what the rules should be. Of course, neither did the auditors. I know that there others on this list who have had similar experiences. Perhaps that's the subject of yet another survey. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353 Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:28 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Survey says... 6) Cannot do that here. DLL requires PDSE, and homegrown SDLC systems here do not support PDSE. (That's System Development Life Cycle, not Synchronous Data Link Control). Not all shops use one of the major SDLC systems due to their exorbitant cost. Your target audience must have auditor-approved tools to produce a DLL before they can program it. HTH Peter snipage Suppose that an ISV had a new release of their product, and that the DLL was part of the SMP/E install. Further suppose that the DLL was built and populated as part of the install instructions. Now, if anything were added by your site to the DLL it would be done via ++USERMOD within the SMP/E environment. Would your site have a problem with that? And how would it be addressed? Regards, Steve Thompson -- Poster's opinions may not reflect the views of poster's employer. -- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...)
In many parts of the world, auditor behavior is spelled out in ISO 9000. And, as I recall, that behavior is much like Ted's posts. Not so in the US, it would seem. I wonder if that would account for the differing experiences? To be fair, not all of the silliness is coming from the auditors. But they are embracing it and ramming it down any handy throat. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:06 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Auditors (was: Survey says...) I guess our mangement forgot to read the definitions. And come to think of it, that has been true in every shop I've seen. Yes. But, who carries the hammer? Audits, especially external audits, carry a lot of weight. The enforcement does not come from the auditors, but the audits do not seem to be questioned. Then your company is missing something in due diligence. Any finding can (and, sometimes must) be questioned. If not, due diligence arises again (or wimpiness). And the audit groups seem to have their own SME which in some cases really stretch the definition of expert. Again, due diligence. Accept bad findings, curl up your toes, go belly-up and 6 feet under, or fight back and defend your position and job. If you're going to lose it fighting, you're probably going to lose it accepting. If they're accurate, suck it up and accept. An audit finding is not necessarily gospel! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Thompson, Steve Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:30 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Survey says... Snipped Suppose that an ISV had a new release of their product, and that the DLL was part of the SMP/E install. Further suppose that the DLL was built and populated as part of the install instructions. Now, if anything were added by your site to the DLL it would be done via ++USERMOD within the SMP/E environment. Would your site have a problem with that? And how would it be addressed? Different scenario entirely. Now you are talking about software that the sysprogs install. They have different rules and different tools than application programmers. I answered from the application developer's standpoint, not the sysprog one. I did assume, perhaps incorrectly, that the OP's question was directed at the application side of the fence. His words were to use a feature of a vendor product on z/OS, you need to put some code in a DLL. Looking at it again, that could apply equally to either the installers or to the users of the ISV product, so my answer was one-sided. To answer your question, I don't *think* there would be a problem because SMP/E was doing the install, not the SDLC software used by programmers. OTOH I could speculate that the installers and the ISV might have to answer serious mgmt. questions about whether, given the checkered history of stability for PDSE's, the new product release was safe to install into the production environment. I could also speculate that alternative products might be given a second look. But I don't really know what would happen, since that's not in my area. Peter This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Survey says...
In a message dated 1/6/2009 3:35:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, patrick.oke...@wamu.net writes: I'm not alone in my ignorance and others might learn from the answers to bonehead questions I might ask. I see this as a good thing. There's professional help! Zoomerang.com has been doing this for a long time. I've done a couple on the list with varying degrees of success. The freebie limits you to first 100 or so responses so you only get the most rabid posters first-a taste but not necessarily representative. Haven't looked at rates lately but seemed to be in the petty cash category for most. **New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom0026) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
