Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
What will be done for the smaller systems z13s level that only have 15MSU (80MIP) in the entire box? Nothing appears to have been done for the excruciating amount of time it takes to perform the install compared to the old packaged delivery. Will it still be order-able for those smaller systems? Brian n Mon, 16 May 2022 09:43:59 -0500, Marna WALLE wrote: >Today, I have some important information that I’d like to share with you! > >Originally in July 2021 >https://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?infotype=an&subtype=ca&appname=gpateam&supplier=897&letternum=ENUS221-260 > IBM announced that the Custompac (ISPF) installation method of ServerPac >was planned for removal in January 2022. Then, due to the data set merge >function not being ready in January 2022, we decided to delay that removal >until later because we wanted continual capability for customers to merge data >sets within their ServerPacs, via this announcement in November 2021 >https://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/8/897/ENUS221-388/index.html&request_locale=en > >Recall that data set merge needed to be provided in two pieces: the z/OSMF >Software Management capability (via APAR PH42028, PTFs available as of March >23, 2022 on z/OS V2.2 and higher) and the z/OSMF ServerPac production >exploitation of that capability (provided in orders since May 6, 2022). Also >remember that this removal impacted *all* ServerPacs, but had no impact on the >availability of CBPDO. > >Now that both of those data set merge pieces have been provided, we are ready >to remove the CustomPac (ISPF) ServerPac installation method from Shopz., >leaving only the z/OSMF installation method for ServerPacs. > >The CustomPac Dialog installation method choice from Shopz is planned to be >removed on July 10, 2022. After July 10, 2022, IBM intends that *any* >ServerPac for z/OS, CICS, Db2, IMS, or program products ordered via Shopz >will only be packaged and installable with z/OSMF. > >We have updated this information on our primary website for z/OSMF ServerPac >installation information, >https://www.ibm.com/support/z-content-solutions/serverpac-install-zosmf/. >Use that website to learn more about the z/OSMF ServerPac installation method. > Also, please do use the Try It sample provided via that website as a >representative package which you can use to verify your driving system is >sufficient for installation of *any* z/OSMF portable software instance, from >*any* software vendor. > >Marna WALLE >z/OS Installation and Upgrade >IBM Poughkeepsie > >-- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Hi everyone, We do not have z/OSMF activated and running, and don't plan to in the near future. We do not have any zIIPs on our system, which makes running z/OSMF next to impossible on our small system. How are we supposed to installed the next version of z/OS? Gadi -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Marna WALLE Sent: Monday, May 16, 2022 5:44 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Today, I have some important information that I’d like to share with you! Originally in July 2021 https://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?infotype=an&subtype=ca&appname=gpateam&supplier=897&letternum=ENUS221-260 IBM announced that the Custompac (ISPF) installation method of ServerPac was planned for removal in January 2022. Then, due to the data set merge function not being ready in January 2022, we decided to delay that removal until later because we wanted continual capability for customers to merge data sets within their ServerPacs, via this announcement in November 2021 https://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc.wss?docURL=/common/ssi/rep_ca/8/897/ENUS221-388/index.html&request_locale=en Recall that data set merge needed to be provided in two pieces: the z/OSMF Software Management capability (via APAR PH42028, PTFs available as of March 23, 2022 on z/OS V2.2 and higher) and the z/OSMF ServerPac production exploitation of that capability (provided in orders since May 6, 2022). Also remember that this removal impacted *all* ServerPacs, but had no impact on the availability of CBPDO. Now that both of those data set merge pieces have been provided, we are ready to remove the CustomPac (ISPF) ServerPac installation method from Shopz., leaving only the z/OSMF installation method for ServerPacs. The CustomPac Dialog installation method choice from Shopz is planned to be removed on July 10, 2022. After July 10, 2022, IBM intends that *any* ServerPac for z/OS, CICS, Db2, IMS, or program products ordered via Shopz will only be packaged and installable with z/OSMF. We have updated this information on our primary website for z/OSMF ServerPac installation information, https://www.ibm.com/support/z-content-solutions/serverpac-install-zosmf/. Use that website to learn more about the z/OSMF ServerPac installation method. Also, please do use the Try It sample provided via that website as a representative package which you can use to verify your driving system is sufficient for installation of *any* z/OSMF portable software instance, from *any* software vendor. Marna WALLE z/OS Installation and Upgrade IBM Poughkeepsie -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Email secured by Check Point -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Unfortunately, I think it's clear that you're not supposed to do so :( > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Gadi Ben-Avi > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2022 9:28 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended > removal date > > Hi everyone, > We do not have z/OSMF activated and running, and don't plan to in the near > future. > We do not have any zIIPs on our system, which makes running z/OSMF next > to impossible on our small system. > > How are we supposed to installed the next version of z/OS? > > Gadi > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Marna WALLE > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2022 5:44 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal > date > > Today, I have some important information that I’d like to share with you! > > Originally in July 2021 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi- > bin/ssialias?infotype=an&subtype=ca&appname=gpateam&supplier=897&le > tternum=ENUS221- > 260__;!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!uHzUc9v7Nd8RQGjAtnEAVhTGCfjG1GJW5UvU > YvNCkgVSjQpQG-dz0sT4h-WInZ591jK_xjkBdPBW$ IBM announced that the > Custompac (ISPF) installation method of ServerPac was planned for removal > in January 2022. Then, due to the data set merge function not being ready in > January 2022, we decided to delay that removal until later because we > wanted continual capability for customers to merge data sets within their > ServerPacs, via this announcement in November 2021 > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/ShowDoc > .wss?docURL=*common*ssi*rep_ca*8*897*ENUS221- > 388*index.html&request_locale=en__;Ly8vLy8vLw!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!u > HzUc9v7Nd8RQGjAtnEAVhTGCfjG1GJW5UvUYvNCkgVSjQpQG-dz0sT4h- > WInZ591jK_xkOROSWW$ > > Recall that data set merge needed to be provided in two pieces: the z/OSMF > Software Management capability (via APAR PH42028, PTFs available as of > March 23, 2022 on z/OS V2.2 and higher) and the z/OSMF ServerPac > production exploitation of that capability (provided in orders since May 6, > 2022). Also remember that this removal impacted *all* ServerPacs, but had > no impact on the availability of CBPDO. > > Now that both of those data set merge pieces have been provided, we are > ready to remove the CustomPac (ISPF) ServerPac installation method from > Shopz., leaving only the z/OSMF installation method for ServerPacs. > > The CustomPac Dialog installation method choice from Shopz is planned to be > removed on July 10, 2022. After July 10, 2022, IBM intends that *any* > ServerPac for z/OS, CICS, Db2, IMS, or program products ordered via Shopz > will only be packaged and installable with z/OSMF. > > We have updated this information on our primary website for z/OSMF > ServerPac installation information, > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ibm.com/support/z-content- > solutions/serverpac-install- > zosmf/__;!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!uHzUc9v7Nd8RQGjAtnEAVhTGCfjG1GJW5 > UvUYvNCkgVSjQpQG-dz0sT4h-WInZ591jK_xlu9ZMbt$ .Use that website to > learn more about the z/OSMF ServerPac installation method. Also, please do > use the Try It sample provided via that website as a representative package > which you can use to verify your driving system is sufficient for > installation of > *any* z/OSMF portable software instance, from *any* software vendor. > > Marna WALLE > z/OS Installation and Upgrade > IBM Poughkeepsie > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > Email secured by Check Point > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Hi Gadi, I'm going to give you some information. I'm not sure any of it will necessarily help you, but at least you might be able to know what some options are. You might already know this, and I apologize if I'm repeating information you already know. There will not be any silver bullet, or necessarily happy news here for you - I'll warn you. 1. As you see, it will be increasingly difficult to run any relatively modern z/OS workloads at a reduced cost without a zIIP. I would include anything Java related in that category. So, z/OSMF is definitely included. We are becoming more and more dependent upon it for management of and certain functions on the system, and therefore more reliant upon usage of zIIPs. I would hope that your enterprise is aware of this, having taken a business decision not to currently have a zIIP, and what that means to z/OS. 2. There are some minor tweaks you can do the help with the performance on z/OSMF start up. They've been discussed here several times, but I'll point you to a performance paper where an IBM Performance Tester has done an evaluation. https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/system/files/inline-files/zosmf_v2r4_resource_requirement.pdf In addition, I know that Frank Kyne has done his own deep dive into this topic. He will be presenting at the z/OSMF Guild on just this topic, if you wish to join and see if he has any pointers you might not be aware of: https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/blogs/rolando-perez/2021/11/03/zosmf-guild 3. As you upgrade your HW server level, you will hopefully get to the z15 eventually making your z13 situation not a long lasting situation. This is where System Recovery Boost will give you at no cost, the ability to have an IPL boost on your subcapacity machine to run full speed with a Speed Boost. This will allow you to initialize z/OS and z/OSMF faster for 60 minutes. Once you have z/OSMF initialized, the consumption of the z/OSMF server does flatten out considerably. 4. Do note that until July 10, 2022, you can get that CustomPac for z/OS V2.5 that you can still install without z/OSMF. If your upgrade plans do intend to upgrade to z/OS V2.5, I would order and download it now, so that at least you have a copy of it that doesn't need z/OSMF to install for the time being. 5. I'm seeing that there are few options left at this point. I can think of only two: you could install with a CBPDO yourself, which will be time consuming and cumbersome, and which itself will drive a lot of General Purpose cycles. Or perhaps you could hire an outsider to use their own systems to install and provide you with a dump/restore format. I wouldn't know, but I would hazard that the cost of either of these might be more than the price of a zIIP (but I know nothing of the costs). I do wish that you are able to find a solution that will work for you. -Marna WALLE z/OS Installation and Upgrade IBM Poughkeepsie -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
On 17/05/2022 2:27 pm, Brian Westerman wrote: What will be done for the smaller systems z13s level that only have 15MSU (80MIP) in the entire box? I have a certain sympathy with the z/OSMF developers. 80 MIPS was a small system even back in the late 1990s wasn't it? Hardware limitations due to software pricing is strangling the low end mainframe market in particular. It would benefit customers, software vendors and IBM if IBM could get these small systems onto more reasonably sized hardware. We get a certain pleasure from extracting everything possible from a small system, but in reality it's not productive work. I would love to see IBM say the smallest system they will sell is e.g. equivalent computing power to a low-mid Intel system, maybe minimum 4 CPU and 200 MSU - and no sub capacity measurement below that size. (On my Dallas RDP system z/OSMF starts in about 40s. That system runs single threaded Java work at a similar speed to my desktop PC. Roughly converting, I think that makes my 6 core desktop PC equivalent to 600-700 MSU.) Vendors would be forced to rework their pricing for small systems. If the jump is big enough and forced by IBM you can't just tell customers to suck it up and fork out the big bucks or you lose the customer. It would cause pain for vendor pricing teams, but would benefit their developers and the mainframe market in the long run. It would be more practical to run new work on the mainframe (including z/OSMF), reduce the pressure to move work off small systems, and eliminate many performance problems. zIIPs, System Recovery Boost etc are really just workarounds for the fact that the smallest Z systems are too small. So much effort expended to limit system capacity to last century levels... -- Andrew Rowley Black Hill Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
It's very sad that the IBM response to selling a smaller machine to sites based on their needs is that they should get a bigger box or buy a zIIP. I don't think that's really an acceptable response from IBM. Sadly, there really isn't going to be any other option(s) provided. For my clients that have really small boxes, I will just have to bite the bullet when working on their boxes and bring up z/OSMF late at night and hope to be done before I have to shut it back down. It really stinks that IBM has let the smaller clients down like this. They should feel really bad, but I doubt it will keep them up at night, even though I'm the one that will need to lose sleep over it. Brian On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:35:12 -0500, Marna WALLE wrote: >Hi Gadi, >I'm going to give you some information. I'm not sure any of it will >necessarily help you, but at least you might be able to know what some options >are. You might already know this, and I apologize if I'm repeating >information you already know. There will not be any silver bullet, or >necessarily happy news here for you - I'll warn you. > > >1. As you see, it will be increasingly difficult to run any relatively modern >z/OS workloads at a reduced cost without a zIIP. I would include anything >Java related in that category. So, z/OSMF is definitely included. We are >becoming more and more dependent upon it for management of and certain >functions on the system, and therefore more reliant upon usage of zIIPs. I >would hope that your enterprise is aware of this, having taken a business >decision not to currently have a zIIP, and what that means to z/OS. > >2. There are some minor tweaks you can do the help with the performance on >z/OSMF start up. They've been discussed here several times, but I'll point >you to a performance paper where an IBM Performance Tester has done an >evaluation. >https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/system/files/inline-files/zosmf_v2r4_resource_requirement.pdf > In addition, I know that Frank Kyne has done his own deep dive into this >topic. He will be presenting at the z/OSMF Guild on just this topic, if you >wish to join and see if he has any pointers you might not be aware of: >https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/blogs/rolando-perez/2021/11/03/zosmf-guild > >3. As you upgrade your HW server level, you will hopefully get to the z15 >eventually making your z13 situation not a long lasting situation. This is >where System Recovery Boost will give you at no cost, the ability to have an >IPL boost on your subcapacity machine to run full speed with a Speed Boost. >This will allow you to initialize z/OS and z/OSMF faster for 60 minutes. Once >you have z/OSMF initialized, the consumption of the z/OSMF server does flatten >out considerably. > >4. Do note that until July 10, 2022, you can get that CustomPac for z/OS V2.5 >that you can still install without z/OSMF. If your upgrade plans do intend to >upgrade to z/OS V2.5, I would order and download it now, so that at least you >have a copy of it that doesn't need z/OSMF to install for the time being. > >5. I'm seeing that there are few options left at this point. I can think of >only two: you could install with a CBPDO yourself, which will be time >consuming and cumbersome, and which itself will drive a lot of General Purpose >cycles. Or perhaps you could hire an outsider to use their own systems to >install and provide you with a dump/restore format. I wouldn't know, but I >would hazard that the cost of either of these might be more than the price of >a zIIP (but I know nothing of the costs). > >I do wish that you are able to find a solution that will work for you. >-Marna WALLE >z/OS Installation and Upgrade >IBM Poughkeepsie > >-- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Andrew Rowley wrote: >It would benefit customers, software vendors and IBM if IBM could get >these small systems onto more reasonably sized hardware. We get a >certain pleasure from extracting everything possible from a small >system, but in reality it's not productive work. That’s been happening, actually. Take a look at the minimum configurable CP (general purpose processor) “PCIs” per IBM’s LSPR data: z10BC: 25 z114: 26 zBC12: 50 z13s: 80 z14 ZR1: 88 z15 T02: 98* As I recall the Multiprise 2000 went down as low as ~3.5 PCIs. So over roughly 25 years it’s been about 3.5 to 98 PCIs as the minimum available CP configuration, or about a 28X increase. Insert the usual caveats that “PCI” comparisons are perilous, particularly over this broad range of machines. IBM doesn’t mandate configuring a zIIP in part because z/VSE and VSEn cannot use a zIIP. But IBM generally recommends configuring at least one zIIP if you run z/OS. zIIPs are (or were) available for all of these models and also for the z9BC. * As Marna mentioned the IBM z15 models have System Recovery Boost. The IBM z15 T02 capacity model A01 would actually run equivalently to a Z01 capacity model during System Recovery Boost (60 minutes), or with even greater capacity if equipped with a zIIP. An IBM z15 T02 capacity model Z01 has a PCI rating of 1,761. — — — — — Timothy Sipples Senior Architect Digital Assets, Industry Solutions, and Cyber Security IBM zSystems and LinuxONE sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Doesn't IBM also allow software capping to a lower capacity than the slowest uniprocessor through the operating system? On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 5:54 AM Timothy Sipples wrote: > > Andrew Rowley wrote: > >It would benefit customers, software vendors and IBM if IBM could get > >these small systems onto more reasonably sized hardware. We get a > >certain pleasure from extracting everything possible from a small > >system, but in reality it's not productive work. > > That’s been happening, actually. Take a look at the minimum configurable CP > (general purpose processor) “PCIs” per IBM’s LSPR data: > > z10BC: 25 > z114: 26 > zBC12: 50 > z13s: 80 > z14 ZR1: 88 > z15 T02: 98* > > As I recall the Multiprise 2000 went down as low as ~3.5 PCIs. So over > roughly 25 years it’s been about 3.5 to 98 PCIs as the minimum available CP > configuration, or about a 28X increase. Insert the usual caveats that “PCI” > comparisons are perilous, particularly over this broad range of machines. > > IBM doesn’t mandate configuring a zIIP in part because z/VSE and VSEn cannot > use a zIIP. But IBM generally recommends configuring at least one zIIP if you > run z/OS. zIIPs are (or were) available for all of these models and also for > the z9BC. > > * As Marna mentioned the IBM z15 models have System Recovery Boost. The IBM > z15 T02 capacity model A01 would actually run equivalently to a Z01 capacity > model during System Recovery Boost (60 minutes), or with even greater > capacity if equipped with a zIIP. An IBM z15 T02 capacity model Z01 has a PCI > rating of 1,761. > > — — — — — > Timothy Sipples > Senior Architect > Digital Assets, Industry Solutions, and Cyber Security > IBM zSystems and LinuxONE > sipp...@sg.ibm.com > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
On 18/05/2022 3:53 pm, Timothy Sipples wrote: So over roughly 25 years it’s been about 3.5 to 98 PCIs as the minimum available CP configuration, or about a 28X increase. I did say "a small" system in the 1990s, not the smallest available. But your 28X illustrates the point. Over the same period, other platforms have increased what, 1000X? More? Another 20X on top of your 28X for the minimum system would put it around 600X and maybe 300MSU which would be much more usable. Everything has multiple CPUs now which solves many performance problems, so I don't think you want less than 4. And if z/OSMF started 20X faster (90s instead of 30 minutes) on small systems, you would have a lot less complaints about it. IBM generally recommends configuring at least one zIIP if you run z/OS. zIIPs are (or were) available for all of these models and also for the z9BC. zIIPs are a great marketing point for my product which is written in Java (as long as the customer has them), but they are just a workaround for the restricted capacity of the GCPs. Andrew Rowley Black Hill Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Purchase of an Intel XEON system to run a Linux system with zPDT could be used purely to run Z/OSMF. Would that be good enough? I think that might be cheaper than real Z upgrades, but I have not done any arithmetic on software costs. z/OS volume images could then be transferred using FTP when needed. Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw https://rsclweb.com ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Andrew Rowley Sent: 18 May 2022 01:35 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date On 17/05/2022 2:27 pm, Brian Westerman wrote: > What will be done for the smaller systems z13s level that only have 15MSU > (80MIP) in the entire box? I have a certain sympathy with the z/OSMF developers. 80 MIPS was a small system even back in the late 1990s wasn't it? Hardware limitations due to software pricing is strangling the low end mainframe market in particular. It would benefit customers, software vendors and IBM if IBM could get these small systems onto more reasonably sized hardware. We get a certain pleasure from extracting everything possible from a small system, but in reality it's not productive work. I would love to see IBM say the smallest system they will sell is e.g. equivalent computing power to a low-mid Intel system, maybe minimum 4 CPU and 200 MSU - and no sub capacity measurement below that size. (On my Dallas RDP system z/OSMF starts in about 40s. That system runs single threaded Java work at a similar speed to my desktop PC. Roughly converting, I think that makes my 6 core desktop PC equivalent to 600-700 MSU.) Vendors would be forced to rework their pricing for small systems. If the jump is big enough and forced by IBM you can't just tell customers to suck it up and fork out the big bucks or you lose the customer. It would cause pain for vendor pricing teams, but would benefit their developers and the mainframe market in the long run. It would be more practical to run new work on the mainframe (including z/OSMF), reduce the pressure to move work off small systems, and eliminate many performance problems. zIIPs, System Recovery Boost etc are really just workarounds for the fact that the smallest Z systems are too small. So much effort expended to limit system capacity to last century levels... -- Andrew Rowley Black Hill Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
I understand, but in this case the z13s is a supported processor for z/OS 2.5, but is almost completely incapable of running z/OSMF. It can run z/OSMF, but the response time is unacceptable. We finally got IBM to compare z/OSMF on a z13s without any zIIP and they came back to say that the one they ran all of their testing on was a 4CP 400MIP box (with a zIIP), and they did agree to at least state that in the redbook they put out. However, that didn't change the ability to execute acceptably on a z13s at 80 mip. Brian On Wed, 18 May 2022 05:53:46 +, Timothy Sipples wrote: >Andrew Rowley wrote: >>It would benefit customers, software vendors and IBM if IBM could get >>these small systems onto more reasonably sized hardware. We get a >>certain pleasure from extracting everything possible from a small >>system, but in reality it's not productive work. > >That�s been happening, actually. Take a look at the minimum configurable CP >(general purpose processor) �PCIs� per IBM�s LSPR data: > >z10BC: 25 >z114: 26 >zBC12: 50 >z13s: 80 >z14 ZR1: 88 >z15 T02: 98* > >As I recall the Multiprise 2000 went down as low as ~3.5 PCIs. So over roughly >25 years it�s been about 3.5 to 98 PCIs as the minimum available CP >configuration, or about a 28X increase. Insert the usual caveats that �PCI� >comparisons are perilous, particularly over this broad range of machines. > >IBM doesn�t mandate configuring a zIIP in part because z/VSE and VSEn cannot >use a zIIP. But IBM generally recommends configuring at least one zIIP if you >run z/OS. zIIPs are (or were) available for all of these models and also for >the z9BC. > >* As Marna mentioned the IBM z15 models have System Recovery Boost. The IBM >z15 T02 capacity model A01 would actually run equivalently to a Z01 capacity >model during System Recovery Boost (60 minutes), or with even greater capacity >if equipped with a zIIP. An IBM z15 T02 capacity model Z01 has a PCI rating of >1,761. > >� � � � � >Timothy Sipples >Senior Architect >Digital Assets, Industry Solutions, and Cyber Security >IBM zSystems and LinuxONE >sipp...@sg.ibm.com > > >-- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Mike Schwab asked: >Doesn't IBM also allow software capping to a lower capacity than the >slowest uniprocessor through the operating system? Yes, but usually you wouldn’t do that for IBM software licensing reasons. That’s because the A01 capacity model uniquely qualifies for IBM zSystems Entry License Charges (“zELC”) from IBM. https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/pricing-licensing Andrew Rowley wrote: >I did say "a small" system in the 1990s, not the smallest available. But >your 28X illustrates the point. Over the same period, other platforms >have increased what, 1000X? More? That’s even more difficult to characterize, but (eyeballing it) 1000X must be too high. To back up a couple steps, if you have either of these machines: any IBM zSystems machine with at least one zIIP any IBM z15 machine or higher then you should be fine, right? Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. One or more zIIPs is still a REALLY good idea, including for SRB as it happens. But for z/OSMF specifically, for getting z/OS installed, SRB should fit the bill.) OK, so what’s left? It’s specifically small capacity IBM z13s and IBM z14 ZR1 machines without zIIPs. z/OS 2.5 doesn’t run on any machine prior to IBM z13s, so this pending change doesn’t affect any prior models. But (good news!) you can still order and install z/OS 2.5 without z/OSMF for these particular machines. That’s the whole purpose of this thread, to alert you to the last CustomPac ordering date. And you could still start and run z/OSMF on a small capacity zIIP-less machine without SRB, but it can take a long time (wall clock time). Please talk with your “friendly IBM representative” if you’re going to have any difficulties here. But if you fit this profile: * run z/OS * small capacity IBM z13s or IBM z14 ZR1 * no zIIPs then please order z/OS 2.5 with CustomPac before the deadline, just in case you need it. There shouldn’t be any additional charge to place an order if you’re already a z/OS licensee. If that’s STILL not enough, please “talk with your friendly IBM representative.” These people are generally reasonable. — — — — — Timothy Sipples Senior Architect Digital Assets, Industry Solutions, and Cyber Security IBM zSystems and LinuxONE sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Any possibility of licensing one zIIP on a z14 or earlier with zero zIIPs so z/OS 2.5 z/OSMF installation method can be run once installed? On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 7:51 AM Timothy Sipples wrote: > > Mike Schwab asked: > >Doesn't IBM also allow software capping to a lower capacity than the > >slowest uniprocessor through the operating system? > > Yes, but usually you wouldn’t do that for IBM software licensing reasons. > That’s because the A01 capacity model uniquely qualifies for IBM zSystems > Entry License Charges (“zELC”) from IBM. > > https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/pricing-licensing > > Andrew Rowley wrote: > >I did say "a small" system in the 1990s, not the smallest available. But > >your 28X illustrates the point. Over the same period, other platforms > >have increased what, 1000X? More? > > That’s even more difficult to characterize, but (eyeballing it) 1000X must be > too high. > > To back up a couple steps, if you have either of these machines: > > any IBM zSystems machine with at least one zIIP > any IBM z15 machine or higher > > then you should be fine, right? Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower > for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives > you…plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. > (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity > configuration. One or more zIIPs is still a REALLY good idea, including for > SRB as it happens. But for z/OSMF specifically, for getting z/OS installed, > SRB should fit the bill.) > > OK, so what’s left? It’s specifically small capacity IBM z13s and IBM z14 ZR1 > machines without zIIPs. z/OS 2.5 doesn’t run on any machine prior to IBM > z13s, so this pending change doesn’t affect any prior models. But (good > news!) you can still order and install z/OS 2.5 without z/OSMF for these > particular machines. That’s the whole purpose of this thread, to alert you to > the last CustomPac ordering date. And you could still start and run z/OSMF on > a small capacity zIIP-less machine without SRB, but it can take a long time > (wall clock time). > > Please talk with your “friendly IBM representative” if you’re going to have > any difficulties here. But if you fit this profile: > > * run z/OS > * small capacity IBM z13s or IBM z14 ZR1 > * no zIIPs > > then please order z/OS 2.5 with CustomPac before the deadline, just in case > you need it. There shouldn’t be any additional charge to place an order if > you’re already a z/OS licensee. > > If that’s STILL not enough, please “talk with your friendly IBM > representative.” These people are generally reasonable. > > — — — — — > Timothy Sipples > Senior Architect > Digital Assets, Industry Solutions, and Cyber Security > IBM zSystems and LinuxONE > sipp...@sg.ibm.com > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
On 19/05/2022 5:50 pm, Timothy Sipples wrote: That’s even more difficult to characterize, but (eyeballing it) 1000X must be too high. Maybe... it's hard to find a good comparison over that length of time. But a Multiprise 2000 is in the original Pentium era. A $1500 Lenovo boasts an Intel i7 with 8 cores/16 threads. If 8 cores gives e.g. 5x throughput, it only has to achieve 200x the single CPU speed of a 1996 Pentium for 1000x increase overall. It might not be 1000X but it must be close. Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. -- Andrew Rowley Black Hill Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work run on another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate with the mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever it does to run the actual installation). Or am I thinking too far out of the box? On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Oh... don't give them ideas. - KB --- Original Message --- On Friday, May 20th, 2022 at 7:33 AM, Tom Brennan wrote: > Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work run > on another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate with the > mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever it does to run > the actual installation). Or am I thinking too far out of the box? > > On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: > > > On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: > > > > > > Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having > > > > an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of > > > > horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the > > > > z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity > > > > configuration. > > > > > > I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not > > > just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give > > > everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a > > > useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. > > > > 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. > > IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > . > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Yes, but AFTER July 10th, you can no longer do that. What good will that do for people who don't install until after that date, or that want to install the next release when it comes out? Brian On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:50:33 +, Timothy Sipples wrote: >Mike Schwab asked: >>Doesn't IBM also allow software capping to a lower capacity than the >>slowest uniprocessor through the operating system? > >Yes, but usually you wouldn�t do that for IBM software licensing reasons. >That�s because the A01 capacity model uniquely qualifies for IBM zSystems >Entry License Charges (�zELC�) from IBM. > >https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/pricing-licensing > >Andrew Rowley wrote: >>I did say "a small" system in the 1990s, not the smallest available. But >>your 28X illustrates the point. Over the same period, other platforms >>have increased what, 1000X? More? > >That�s even more difficult to characterize, but (eyeballing it) 1000X must be >too high. > >To back up a couple steps, if you have either of these machines: > >any IBM zSystems machine with at least one zIIP >any IBM z15 machine or higher > >then you should be fine, right? Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower >for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives >you�plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. >(It�s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity >configuration. One or more zIIPs is still a REALLY good idea, including for >SRB as it happens. But for z/OSMF specifically, for getting z/OS installed, >SRB should fit the bill.) > >OK, so what�s left? It�s specifically small capacity IBM z13s and IBM z14 ZR1 >machines without zIIPs. z/OS 2.5 doesn�t run on any machine prior to IBM z13s, >so this pending change doesn�t affect any prior models. But (good news!) you >can still order and install z/OS 2.5 without z/OSMF for these particular >machines. That�s the whole purpose of this thread, to alert you to the last >CustomPac ordering date. And you could still start and run z/OSMF on a small >capacity zIIP-less machine without SRB, but it can take a long time (wall >clock time). > >Please talk with your �friendly IBM representative� if you�re going to have >any difficulties here. But if you fit this profile: > >* run z/OS >* small capacity IBM z13s or IBM z14 ZR1 >* no zIIPs > >then please order z/OS 2.5 with CustomPac before the deadline, just in case >you need it. There shouldn�t be any additional charge to place an order if >you�re already a z/OS licensee. > >If that�s STILL not enough, please �talk with your friendly IBM >representative.� These people are generally reasonable. > >� � � � � >Timothy Sipples >Senior Architect >Digital Assets, Industry Solutions, and Cyber Security >IBM zSystems and LinuxONE >sipp...@sg.ibm.com > > >-- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
AFAIK there is nore are no physical differences among the various specialty engines, just how they are configured after manufacturing. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:15 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: > >> Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having >> an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of >> horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the >> z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity >> configuration. > > I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not > just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give > everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a > useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Did the MP2000 and MP3000 simulate S/390 on x86 chips, use P/390 technology or use tailored hardware? Since ZAAP (remember it?) and ZIIP are marketing gimmicks to begin with, IBM could easilly add one to the mix if they believed that there was a business case. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Andrew Rowley [and...@blackhillsoftware.com] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 8:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date On 19/05/2022 5:50 pm, Timothy Sipples wrote: > That’s even more difficult to characterize, but (eyeballing it) 1000X > must be too high. Maybe... it's hard to find a good comparison over that length of time. But a Multiprise 2000 is in the original Pentium era. A $1500 Lenovo boasts an Intel i7 with 8 cores/16 threads. If 8 cores gives e.g. 5x throughput, it only has to achieve 200x the single CPU speed of a 1996 Pentium for 1000x increase overall. It might not be 1000X but it must be close. > Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM > z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for > z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that > can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. -- Andrew Rowley Black Hill Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
At a very high level and keeping it simple, physically all the 'cores' on the chip are the same. Depending on what is purchased, these are then 'characterised' as a CP, zIIP, IFL, ICF or a SAP with microcode during POR and PR/SM designates as to which core will be used for what 'function'. Regards Parwez Hamid From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Seymour J Metz Sent: 20 May 2022 12:03 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date AFAIK there is nore are no physical differences among the various specialty engines, just how they are configured after manufacturing. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:15 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: > >> Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having >> an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of >> horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the >> z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity >> configuration. > > I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not > just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give > everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a > useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Re: simulate S/390 on x86 chips. Don't think it was x86 technology! Regards Parwez Hamid From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Seymour J Metz Sent: 20 May 2022 12:09 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Did the MP2000 and MP3000 simulate S/390 on x86 chips, use P/390 technology or use tailored hardware? Since ZAAP (remember it?) and ZIIP are marketing gimmicks to begin with, IBM could easilly add one to the mix if they believed that there was a business case. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Andrew Rowley [and...@blackhillsoftware.com] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 8:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date On 19/05/2022 5:50 pm, Timothy Sipples wrote: > That’s even more difficult to characterize, but (eyeballing it) 1000X > must be too high. Maybe... it's hard to find a good comparison over that length of time. But a Multiprise 2000 is in the original Pentium era. A $1500 Lenovo boasts an Intel i7 with 8 cores/16 threads. If 8 cores gives e.g. 5x throughput, it only has to achieve 200x the single CPU speed of a 1996 Pentium for 1000x increase overall. It might not be 1000X but it must be close. > Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM > z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for > z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that > can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. -- Andrew Rowley Black Hill Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
IIRC, the MP2000 used a P390, and the MP3000 used the P390E. In any event, they did not emulate the processor. On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 6:09 AM Seymour J Metz wrote: > Did the MP2000 and MP3000 simulate S/390 on x86 chips, use P/390 > technology or use tailored hardware? > > Since ZAAP (remember it?) and ZIIP are marketing gimmicks to begin with, > IBM could easilly add one to the mix if they believed that there was a > business case. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > of Andrew Rowley [and...@blackhillsoftware.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 8:23 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended > removal date > > On 19/05/2022 5:50 pm, Timothy Sipples wrote: > > That’s even more difficult to characterize, but (eyeballing it) 1000X > > must be too high. > > Maybe... it's hard to find a good comparison over that length of time. > But a Multiprise 2000 is in the original Pentium era. > > A $1500 Lenovo boasts an Intel i7 with 8 cores/16 threads. If 8 cores > gives e.g. 5x throughput, it only has to achieve 200x the single CPU > speed of a 1996 Pentium for 1000x increase overall. It might not be > 1000X but it must be close. > > > Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an > IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of > horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the > z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. > > I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not just > the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give > everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a > useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. > > -- > Andrew Rowley > Black Hill Software > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- Jay Maynard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
On Fri, 20 May 2022 at 07:59, Jay Maynard wrote: > On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 6:09 AM Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > Did the MP2000 and MP3000 simulate S/390 on x86 chips, use P/390 > > technology or use tailored hardware? > > IIRC, the MP2000 used a P390, and the MP3000 used the P390E. In any event, > they did not emulate the processor. I don't know much about the MP2000, but the MP3000 was Real Iron with the same G5 processor used in things like the 9672. It did have an x86 board and CPU, but it was not used for instruction emulation - only for support and *some* I/O functions. There was no P390 chip or board. There was often some confusion because the MP3000 used the same box as the earlier Integrated Server (IS) which was indeed just a large packaging of a P390E. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
I had a lively discussion with Mr. Zelden about zAAP on Main. We ran WAS 3.02 freeware pre zAAP in 2001. CPC was 9672-RB6, 2 way 166 MIPS.When we started the server address space the lights dimmed. I crowed loudly to IBM about having a min. requirement for MIPS which came out in a later offering with documentation. Took a while but zAAP would have helped mitigate that power drain on the LPAR as an asset so for me it was in direct correlation to a performance boost and less to do with marketing as we might have assumed at the time ... just saying ... Sadly I never obtained a machine with zAAP and was left with fiddling with tuning the environment best I could.Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone Original message From: Seymour J Metz Date: 5/20/22 7:09 AM (GMT-05:00) To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Did the MP2000 and MP3000 simulate S/390 on x86 chips, use P/390 technology or use tailored hardware?Since ZAAP (remember it?) and ZIIP are marketing gimmicks to begin with, IBM could easilly add one to the mix if they believed that there was a business case.--Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metzhttp://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Andrew Rowley [and...@blackhillsoftware.com]Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 8:23 PMTo: ibm-m...@listserv.ua.EDUSubject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal dateOn 19/05/2022 5:50 pm, Timothy Sipples wrote:> That’s even more difficult to characterize, but (eyeballing it) 1000X> must be too high.Maybe... it's hard to find a good comparison over that length of time.But a Multiprise 2000 is in the original Pentium era.A $1500 Lenovo boasts an Intel i7 with 8 cores/16 threads. If 8 coresgives e.g. 5x throughput, it only has to achieve 200x the single CPUspeed of a 1996 Pentium for 1000x increase overall. It might not be1000X but it must be close.> Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity configuration.I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not justthe startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should giveeveryone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be auseful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites.--Andrew RowleyBlack Hill Software--For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN--For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
I run it on a 5 msu test lpar 2828 1 cpu. Not the fastest but it works. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Similar to my test LPAR, 5 MSU's 8G (min for 2.4) one GP CPU and one zIIP ALL SHARED - I can start IZUSVR1 (z/OSMF) but it really will not function in the real world, I just bring it up to test/validate maint or a new install. Carmen On 5/20/2022 11:47 AM, James C wrote: I run it on a 5 msu test lpar 2828 1 cpu. Not the fastest but it works. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Not yet mentioned in this thread is that IBM really expects you to run z/OSMF in all LPARs. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 10:20 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended > removal date > > Similar to my test LPAR, 5 MSU's 8G (min for 2.4) one GP CPU and one > zIIPALL SHARED - I can start IZUSVR1 (z/OSMF) but it really will not > function in the real world, I just bring it up to test/validate maint or > a new install. > > Carmen > > > On 5/20/2022 11:47 AM, James C wrote: > > I run it on a 5 msu test lpar 2828 1 cpu. Not the fastest but it works. > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > -- > /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to > succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand > with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, > and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
I've reviewed the setup and I really don't quite understand, blonde > in a sysplex, why would you need to ? I've setup a different IZUPRM, my default parm has AUTOSTART(LOCAL) for prod and AUTOSTART(CONNECT) for my test lpar, but thinking about all I can do within z/OSMF why would you need to run z/OSMF on all LPARS? someone from IBM support posted some performance enhancements for z/OSMF as it has to do with java and AOT Cache setting, I'd still would like to know WHERE these values are set not being too familiar with java inquiring minds and all Carmen On 5/20/2022 12:35 PM, Gibney, Dave wrote: Not yet mentioned in this thread is that IBM really expects you to run z/OSMF in all LPARs. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 10:20 AM To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Similar to my test LPAR, 5 MSU's 8G (min for 2.4) one GP CPU and one zIIPALL SHARED - I can start IZUSVR1 (z/OSMF) but it really will not function in the real world, I just bring it up to test/validate maint or a new install. Carmen On 5/20/2022 11:47 AM, James C wrote: I run it on a 5 msu test lpar 2828 1 cpu. Not the fastest but it works. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send emailtolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
replying to myself, just validating what I have seen before - starting another instance CWWKE0005E: The runtime environment could not be launched. CWWKE0029E: An instance of server zosmfServer is already running. I think some tweaking of parms are needed for me Carmen On 5/20/2022 12:47 PM, Carmen Vitullo wrote: I've reviewed the setup and I really don't quite understand, blonde > in a sysplex, why would you need to ? I've setup a different IZUPRM, my default parm has AUTOSTART(LOCAL) for prod and AUTOSTART(CONNECT) for my test lpar, but thinking about all I can do within z/OSMF why would you need to run z/OSMF on all LPARS? someone from IBM support posted some performance enhancements for z/OSMF as it has to do with java and AOT Cache setting, I'd still would like to know WHERE these values are set not being too familiar with java inquiring minds and all Carmen On 5/20/2022 12:35 PM, Gibney, Dave wrote: Not yet mentioned in this thread is that IBM really expects you to run z/OSMF in all LPARs. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 10:20 AM To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Similar to my test LPAR, 5 MSU's 8G (min for 2.4) one GP CPU and one zIIP ALL SHARED - I can start IZUSVR1 (z/OSMF) but it really will not function in the real world, I just bring it up to test/validate maint or a new install. Carmen On 5/20/2022 11:47 AM, James C wrote: I run it on a 5 msu test lpar 2828 1 cpu. Not the fastest but it works. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send emailtolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Dave, I do not believe that statement is true as stated. They do expect that you would run more than one for each *sysplex*, with one of them designated the Primary and the others as Remote(s). As I am only running one sysplex at the moment, I only am running one z/OSMF set of two tasks (IZUANG1 and IZUSVR1) on the sysplex. Bob -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Gibney, Dave Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 1:35 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Not yet mentioned in this thread is that IBM really expects you to run z/OSMF in all LPARs. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 10:20 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac > intended removal date > > Similar to my test LPAR, 5 MSU's 8G (min for 2.4) one GP CPU and one > zIIPALL SHARED - I can start IZUSVR1 (z/OSMF) but it really will not > function in the real world, I just bring it up to test/validate maint > or a new install. > > Carmen > > > On 5/20/2022 11:47 AM, James C wrote: > > I run it on a 5 msu test lpar 2828 1 cpu. Not the fastest but it works. > > > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO > > IBM-MAIN > > > > > -- > /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to > succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand > with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, > and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
I was told you have a z/OSMF on each instance, so you have availability but But once you start a piece of work on one z/OSMF you have to finish it there, because stuff is not shard between z/OSMF instances. Configuration one one z/OSMF may not be shared elsewhere. One reason that the later versions are faster is use of shared classes. Basically it saves the byte codes, so it does not have to parse the source each time. However even with this my z/OSMF still took 19 million EXCP to start. I've blogged on some z/OSMF topics, including performance here <https://colinpaice.blog/category/z-osmf/> Colin On Fri, 20 May 2022 at 18:48, Carmen Vitullo wrote: > I've reviewed the setup and I really don't quite understand, blonde > in a sysplex, why would you need to ? > > I've setup a different IZUPRM, my default parm has AUTOSTART(LOCAL) for > prod and AUTOSTART(CONNECT) for my test lpar, but thinking about all I > can do within z/OSMF why would you need to run z/OSMF on all LPARS? > > someone from IBM support posted some performance enhancements for z/OSMF > as it has to do with java and AOT Cache setting, I'd still would like to > know WHERE these values are set not being too familiar with java > > inquiring minds and all > > > Carmen > > On 5/20/2022 12:35 PM, Gibney, Dave wrote: > > Not yet mentioned in this thread is that IBM really expects you to run > z/OSMF in all LPARs. > > > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > >> Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo > >> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 10:20 AM > >> To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > >> Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended > >> removal date > >> > >> Similar to my test LPAR, 5 MSU's 8G (min for 2.4) one GP CPU and one > >> zIIPALL SHARED - I can start IZUSVR1 (z/OSMF) but it really will not > >> function in the real world, I just bring it up to test/validate maint or > >> a new install. > >> > >> Carmen > >> > >> > >> On 5/20/2022 11:47 AM, James C wrote: > >>> I run it on a 5 msu test lpar 2828 1 cpu. Not the fastest but it > works. > >>> -- > >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>> send emailtolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >>> > >>> > >> -- > >> /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to > >> succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand > >> with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, > >> and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ > >> > >> -- > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >> send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > -- > /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to > succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand > with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, > and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
thanks for that Colin, Looks like some good straight forward info Carmen On 5/20/2022 1:18 PM, Colin Paice wrote: I was told you have a z/OSMF on each instance, so you have availability but But once you start a piece of work on one z/OSMF you have to finish it there, because stuff is not shard between z/OSMF instances. Configuration one one z/OSMF may not be shared elsewhere. One reason that the later versions are faster is use of shared classes. Basically it saves the byte codes, so it does not have to parse the source each time. However even with this my z/OSMF still took 19 million EXCP to start. I've blogged on some z/OSMF topics, including performance here <https://colinpaice.blog/category/z-osmf/> Colin On Fri, 20 May 2022 at 18:48, Carmen Vitullo wrote: I've reviewed the setup and I really don't quite understand, in a sysplex, why would you need to ? I've setup a different IZUPRM, my default parm has AUTOSTART(LOCAL) for prod and AUTOSTART(CONNECT) for my test lpar, but thinking about all I can do within z/OSMF why would you need to run z/OSMF on all LPARS? someone from IBM support posted some performance enhancements for z/OSMF as it has to do with java and AOT Cache setting, I'd still would like to know WHERE these values are set not being too familiar with java inquiring minds and all Carmen On 5/20/2022 12:35 PM, Gibney, Dave wrote: Not yet mentioned in this thread is that IBM really expects you to run z/OSMF in all LPARs. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 10:20 AM To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Similar to my test LPAR, 5 MSU's 8G (min for 2.4) one GP CPU and one zIIPALL SHARED - I can start IZUSVR1 (z/OSMF) but it really will not function in the real world, I just bring it up to test/validate maint or a new install. Carmen On 5/20/2022 11:47 AM, James C wrote: I run it on a 5 msu test lpar 2828 1 cpu. Not the fastest but it works. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, sendemailtolists...@listserv.ua.eduwith the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send emailtolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send emailtolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Well, small sites may not be sysplex. I'm not, 4 monoplexes. Even that AUTOSTART(CONNECT) client is going to have some impact > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 10:48 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended > removal date > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize > the sender and know the content is safe. > > I've reviewed the setup and I really don't quite understand, blonde > in a sysplex, why would you need to ? > > I've setup a different IZUPRM, my default parm has AUTOSTART(LOCAL) for > prod and AUTOSTART(CONNECT) for my test lpar, but thinking about all I > can do within z/OSMF why would you need to run z/OSMF on all LPARS? > > someone from IBM support posted some performance enhancements for > z/OSMF > as it has to do with java and AOT Cache setting, I'd still would like to > know WHERE these values are set not being too familiar with java > > inquiring minds and all > > > Carmen > > On 5/20/2022 12:35 PM, Gibney, Dave wrote: > > Not yet mentioned in this thread is that IBM really expects you to run > z/OSMF in all LPARs. > > > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > >> Behalf Of Carmen Vitullo > >> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 10:20 AM > >> To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > >> Subject: Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended > >> removal date > >> > >> Similar to my test LPAR, 5 MSU's 8G (min for 2.4) one GP CPU and one > >> zIIPALL SHARED - I can start IZUSVR1 (z/OSMF) but it really will not > >> function in the real world, I just bring it up to test/validate maint or > >> a new install. > >> > >> Carmen > >> > >> > >> On 5/20/2022 11:47 AM, James C wrote: > >>> I run it on a 5 msu test lpar 2828 1 cpu. Not the fastest but it works. > >>> -- > >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>> send emailtolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- > MAIN > >>> > >>> > >> -- > >> /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to > >> succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand > >> with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, > >> and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ > >> > >> -- > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >> send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > -- > /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to > succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand > with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, > and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
On 20/5/22 10:03, Tom Brennan wrote: Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work run on another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate with the mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever it does to run the actual installation). Or am I thinking too far out of the box? It's a good question. In the last couple of years I'm pretty much a full time Java jockey. Our products run cross-platform and I'm comfortable with running our stack on distributed systems. Our customers seem to prefer z/OS as they have full operational control and can run the servers using JCL which they are familiar with. It comes down to politics really. I would personally run all our Java stuff on distributed so the precious mainframe resources (including zIIP) can be used on the back-end for the system of record. z/OSMF is a different beast. It's a monolith and the antithesis of a modern micro-services architecture. It serves both REST APIs and UI's for SMPe, CommsServer config, workflows, SDSF and it's dodgy ISPF emulator. Some of the APIs execute native code so it can't be run off-host. I recently purchased a used Dell PowerEdge x86 rack server on ebay for $250. It had some damaged USB ports which I refurbed using cheap replacement parts from Amazon. It has dual socket 16-core (32 with SMT) processers and 64GB RAM in x4 8GB DIMM sticks. It also has 2TB of disk but I have an iSCSI SAN. It came with an Emulex HBA but fibre channel is out of my price range. Plenty of grunt in a cheap setup for doing analytics and the Linux/Docker work I'm interested in. On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Yes IBM allows for soft capping but that doesn't take care of the problem in 2 ways. First the soft cap only reduces a portion of the software license fees. Second, you still have the larger hardware costs of buying the bigger machine just to kneecap it. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mike Schwab Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2022 2:57 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Doesn't IBM also allow software capping to a lower capacity than the slowest uniprocessor through the operating system? On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 5:54 AM Timothy Sipples wrote: > > Andrew Rowley wrote: > >It would benefit customers, software vendors and IBM if IBM could get > >these small systems onto more reasonably sized hardware. We get a > >certain pleasure from extracting everything possible from a small > >system, but in reality it's not productive work. > > That’s been happening, actually. Take a look at the minimum configurable CP > (general purpose processor) “PCIs” per IBM’s LSPR data: > > z10BC: 25 > z114: 26 > zBC12: 50 > z13s: 80 > z14 ZR1: 88 > z15 T02: 98* > > As I recall the Multiprise 2000 went down as low as ~3.5 PCIs. So over > roughly 25 years it’s been about 3.5 to 98 PCIs as the minimum available CP > configuration, or about a 28X increase. Insert the usual caveats that “PCI” > comparisons are perilous, particularly over this broad range of machines. > > IBM doesn’t mandate configuring a zIIP in part because z/VSE and VSEn cannot > use a zIIP. But IBM generally recommends configuring at least one zIIP if you > run z/OS. zIIPs are (or were) available for all of these models and also for > the z9BC. > > * As Marna mentioned the IBM z15 models have System Recovery Boost. The IBM > z15 T02 capacity model A01 would actually run equivalently to a Z01 capacity > model during System Recovery Boost (60 minutes), or with even greater > capacity if equipped with a zIIP. An IBM z15 T02 capacity model Z01 has a PCI > rating of 1,761. > > — — — — — > Timothy Sipples > Senior Architect > Digital Assets, Industry Solutions, and Cyber Security IBM zSystems > and LinuxONE sipp...@sg.ibm.com > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
One would think that since IBM is forcing everybody to use z/OSMF they would accommodate their own customers and not force their smallest ones into expensive upgrades just to run this software. As Seymour mentioned, since zIIPs and the like are all normal processors, IBM should be able to build a bit of microcode to use an unlicensed engine to run z/OSMF. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work run on another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate with the mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever it does to run the actual installation). Or am I thinking too far out of the box? On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: > On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: >> >>> Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having >>> an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of >>> horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s >>> the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity >>> configuration. >> >> I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not >> just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should >> give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even >> be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. > > > 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. > IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Out of curiosity, what's the price of one zIIP these days? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Pommier, Rex Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 9:15 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date One would think that since IBM is forcing everybody to use z/OSMF they would accommodate their own customers and not force their smallest ones into expensive upgrades just to run this software. As Seymour mentioned, since zIIPs and the like are all normal processors, IBM should be able to build a bit of microcode to use an unlicensed engine to run z/OSMF. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work run on another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate with the mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever it does to run the actual installation). Or am I thinking too far out of the box? On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: > On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: >> >>> Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having >>> an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of >>> horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s >>> the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity >>> configuration. >> >> I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not >> just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should >> give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even >> be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. > > > 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. > IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Of course a free zIIP would be the best solution. But that's a decision to be made by sales people, while running z/OSMF remotely would be work (and maybe even a fun project) for a programmer. Now... which group would more likely say yes? In my experience, don't even bother trying to get something for free from someone in sales :) On 5/20/2022 6:14 AM, Pommier, Rex wrote: One would think that since IBM is forcing everybody to use z/OSMF they would accommodate their own customers and not force their smallest ones into expensive upgrades just to run this software. As Seymour mentioned, since zIIPs and the like are all normal processors, IBM should be able to build a bit of microcode to use an unlicensed engine to run z/OSMF. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work run on another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate with the mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever it does to run the actual installation). Or am I thinking too far out of the box? On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
that would be nice - but now with z13 and z13s processors you cannot even get IBM to perform any hardware changes since those boxes are EOSI think last June ? we were somewhat lucky the processors are already IN THE BOX so an MES of our Z13s was done in May before the EOS date to add a second zIIP processor Carmen On 5/20/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Brennan wrote: Of course a free zIIP would be the best solution. But that's a decision to be made by sales people, while running z/OSMF remotely would be work (and maybe even a fun project) for a programmer. Now... which group would more likely say yes? In my experience, don't even bother trying to get something for free from someone in sales :) On 5/20/2022 6:14 AM, Pommier, Rex wrote: One would think that since IBM is forcing everybody to use z/OSMF they would accommodate their own customers and not force their smallest ones into expensive upgrades just to run this software. As Seymour mentioned, since zIIPs and the like are all normal processors, IBM should be able to build a bit of microcode to use an unlicensed engine to run z/OSMF. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work run on another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate with the mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever it does to run the actual installation). Or am I thinking too far out of the box? On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Agreed that IBM won't give away full zIIP processors. However I don't see it as a stretch for IBM to allow z/OSMF java work to run on an unlicensed processor. We haven't started down the z/OSMF path yet so I don't really know what part of z/OS configuration runs under z/OSMF and what part is still classic batch processing etc. I'm assuming (yeah I know where assuming will get me) z/OSMF is dealing with the display and data entry of configuration but much of the work is still done by jobs submitted out of z/OSMF into traditional workloads. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 10:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Of course a free zIIP would be the best solution. But that's a decision to be made by sales people, while running z/OSMF remotely would be work (and maybe even a fun project) for a programmer. Now... which group would more likely say yes? In my experience, don't even bother trying to get something for free from someone in sales :) On 5/20/2022 6:14 AM, Pommier, Rex wrote: > One would think that since IBM is forcing everybody to use z/OSMF they would > accommodate their own customers and not force their smallest ones into > expensive upgrades just to run this software. As Seymour mentioned, since > zIIPs and the like are all normal processors, IBM should be able to build a > bit of microcode to use an unlicensed engine to run z/OSMF. > > Rex > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Tom Brennan > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:04 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - > CustomPac intended removal date > > Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work run on > another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate with the > mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever it does to run the > actual installation). Or am I thinking too far out of the box? > > On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: >> On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: >>> >>>> Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having >>>> an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty >>>> of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. >>>> (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low >>>> capacity configuration. >>> >>> I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not >>> just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should >>> give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even >>> be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. >> >> >> 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. >> IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. >> >> >> - >> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO >> IBM-MAIN . >> > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from > disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is > not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering > this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in > reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have > received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by > replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in > electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Last microcode update for z13s was June 30, 2020. z14 dual frame coming up June 30, 2022 and ZR1 Sept 30, 2022 On 5/20/2022 8:29 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote: that would be nice - but now with z13 and z13s processors you cannot even get IBM to perform any hardware changes since those boxes are EOSI think last June ? we were somewhat lucky the processors are already IN THE BOX so an MES of our Z13s was done in May before the EOS date to add a second zIIP processor Carmen On 5/20/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Brennan wrote: Of course a free zIIP would be the best solution. But that's a decision to be made by sales people, while running z/OSMF remotely would be work (and maybe even a fun project) for a programmer. Now... which group would more likely say yes? In my experience, don't even bother trying to get something for free from someone in sales :) On 5/20/2022 6:14 AM, Pommier, Rex wrote: One would think that since IBM is forcing everybody to use z/OSMF they would accommodate their own customers and not force their smallest ones into expensive upgrades just to run this software. As Seymour mentioned, since zIIPs and the like are all normal processors, IBM should be able to build a bit of microcode to use an unlicensed engine to run z/OSMF. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work run on another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate with the mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever it does to run the actual installation). Or am I thinking too far out of the box? On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
just went back and check - yup, June 30 2020 my wedding anniversary :) Carmen On 5/20/2022 10:38 AM, Tom Brennan wrote: Last microcode update for z13s was June 30, 2020. z14 dual frame coming up June 30, 2022 and ZR1 Sept 30, 2022 On 5/20/2022 8:29 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote: that would be nice - but now with z13 and z13s processors you cannot even get IBM to perform any hardware changes since those boxes are EOSI think last June ? we were somewhat lucky the processors are already IN THE BOX so an MES of our Z13s was done in May before the EOS date to add a second zIIP processor Carmen On 5/20/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Brennan wrote: Of course a free zIIP would be the best solution. But that's a decision to be made by sales people, while running z/OSMF remotely would be work (and maybe even a fun project) for a programmer. Now... which group would more likely say yes? In my experience, don't even bother trying to get something for free from someone in sales :) On 5/20/2022 6:14 AM, Pommier, Rex wrote: One would think that since IBM is forcing everybody to use z/OSMF they would accommodate their own customers and not force their smallest ones into expensive upgrades just to run this software. As Seymour mentioned, since zIIPs and the like are all normal processors, IBM should be able to build a bit of microcode to use an unlicensed engine to run z/OSMF. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work run on another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate with the mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever it does to run the actual installation). Or am I thinking too far out of the box? On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Ha ha - I've setup calendar entries and phone alarms for mine so I don't forget and get in big trouble. FYI - Here's the chart I always use for the mainframe dates, in case anybody here doesn't know about it: https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/ibm-mainframe-life-cycle-history On 5/20/2022 8:56 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote: just went back and check - yup, June 30 2020 my wedding anniversary :) Carmen On 5/20/2022 10:38 AM, Tom Brennan wrote: Last microcode update for z13s was June 30, 2020. z14 dual frame coming up June 30, 2022 and ZR1 Sept 30, 2022 On 5/20/2022 8:29 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote: that would be nice - but now with z13 and z13s processors you cannot even get IBM to perform any hardware changes since those boxes are EOSI think last June ? we were somewhat lucky the processors are already IN THE BOX so an MES of our Z13s was done in May before the EOS date to add a second zIIP processor Carmen On 5/20/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Brennan wrote: Of course a free zIIP would be the best solution. But that's a decision to be made by sales people, while running z/OSMF remotely would be work (and maybe even a fun project) for a programmer. Now... which group would more likely say yes? In my experience, don't even bother trying to get something for free from someone in sales :) On 5/20/2022 6:14 AM, Pommier, Rex wrote: One would think that since IBM is forcing everybody to use z/OSMF they would accommodate their own customers and not force their smallest ones into expensive upgrades just to run this software. As Seymour mentioned, since zIIPs and the like are all normal processors, IBM should be able to build a bit of microcode to use an unlicensed engine to run z/OSMF. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work run on another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate with the mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever it does to run the actual installation). Or am I thinking too far out of the box? On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists.
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
I thought I was the only one, for me it's missing the wife's B-day since it's CRAP - tomorrow, so close after mothers day :( Thanks for the link, I think I have the PDF somewhere of that same doc Carmen On 5/20/2022 11:07 AM, Tom Brennan wrote: Ha ha - I've setup calendar entries and phone alarms for mine so I don't forget and get in big trouble. FYI - Here's the chart I always use for the mainframe dates, in case anybody here doesn't know about it: https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/ibm-mainframe-life-cycle-history On 5/20/2022 8:56 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote: just went back and check - yup, June 30 2020 my wedding anniversary :) Carmen On 5/20/2022 10:38 AM, Tom Brennan wrote: Last microcode update for z13s was June 30, 2020. z14 dual frame coming up June 30, 2022 and ZR1 Sept 30, 2022 On 5/20/2022 8:29 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote: that would be nice - but now with z13 and z13s processors you cannot even get IBM to perform any hardware changes since those boxes are EOSI think last June ? we were somewhat lucky the processors are already IN THE BOX so an MES of our Z13s was done in May before the EOS date to add a second zIIP processor Carmen On 5/20/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Brennan wrote: Of course a free zIIP would be the best solution. But that's a decision to be made by sales people, while running z/OSMF remotely would be work (and maybe even a fun project) for a programmer. Now... which group would more likely say yes? In my experience, don't even bother trying to get something for free from someone in sales :) On 5/20/2022 6:14 AM, Pommier, Rex wrote: One would think that since IBM is forcing everybody to use z/OSMF they would accommodate their own customers and not force their smallest ones into expensive upgrades just to run this software. As Seymour mentioned, since zIIPs and the like are all normal processors, IBM should be able to build a bit of microcode to use an unlicensed engine to run z/OSMF. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work run on another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate with the mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever it does to run the actual installation). Or am I thinking too far out of the box? On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity configuration. I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
Great Info Tom, and timely, for me. Sent you an email to your address above, just to say Hi. From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Tom Brennan Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 4:07 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date Ha ha - I've setup calendar entries and phone alarms for mine so I don't forget and get in big trouble. FYI - Here's the chart I always use for the mainframe dates, in case anybody here doesn't know about it: https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/ibm-mainframe-life-cycle-history On 5/20/2022 8:56 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote: > just went back and check - yup, June 30 2020 my wedding anniversary :) > > Carmen > > On 5/20/2022 10:38 AM, Tom Brennan wrote: >> Last microcode update for z13s was June 30, 2020. >> z14 dual frame coming up June 30, 2022 and ZR1 Sept 30, 2022 >> >> On 5/20/2022 8:29 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote: >>> that would be nice - but now with z13 and z13s processors you cannot >>> even get IBM to perform any hardware changes since those boxes are >>> EOSI think last June ? >>> >>> we were somewhat lucky the processors are already IN THE BOX so an >>> MES of our Z13s was done in May before the EOS date to add a second >>> zIIP processor >>> >>> >>> Carmen >>> >>> >>> On 5/20/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Brennan wrote: >>>> Of course a free zIIP would be the best solution. But that's a >>>> decision to be made by sales people, while running z/OSMF remotely >>>> would be work (and maybe even a fun project) for a programmer. >>>> Now... which group would more likely say yes? In my experience, >>>> don't even bother trying to get something for free from someone in >>>> sales :) >>>> >>>> On 5/20/2022 6:14 AM, Pommier, Rex wrote: >>>>> One would think that since IBM is forcing everybody to use z/OSMF >>>>> they would accommodate their own customers and not force their >>>>> smallest ones into expensive upgrades just to run this software. As >>>>> Seymour mentioned, since zIIPs and the like are all normal >>>>> processors, IBM should be able to build a bit of microcode to use >>>>> an unlicensed engine to run z/OSMF. >>>>> >>>>> Rex >>>>> >>>>> -Original Message- >>>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On >>>>> Behalf Of Tom Brennan >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:04 PM >>>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - >>>>> CustomPac intended removal date >>>>> >>>>> Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work >>>>> run on another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate >>>>> with the mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever >>>>> it does to run the actual installation). Or am I thinking too far >>>>> out of the box? >>>>> >>>>> On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: >>>>>> On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having >>>>>>>> an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives >>>>>>>> you…plenty of >>>>>>>> horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s >>>>>>>> the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity >>>>>>>> configuration. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not >>>>>>> just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should >>>>>>> give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even >>>>>>> be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new >>>>>> hardware. >>>>>> IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / a
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date
End of Service (EoS) and Withdrawn from Marketing (WDFM) are 2 different things. The former is when IBM will stop 'servicing' e.g., maintenance/provide parts of/for the System. The latter is when IBM will stop selling any upgrades (MES) etc. Upgrades requiring physical components or just Licenced Internal Code (LIC) could have different dates for WDFM. z13 and z13s are as yet not EoS. As it has already been mentioned, this URL is an excellent reference for various dates: https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/ibm-mainframe-life-cycle-history IBM Mainframe Life Cycle History<https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/ibm-mainframe-life-cycle-history> Each family of the IBM Z mainframe hardware products has followed a similar life cycle pattern: product announcement, general availability, marketing withdrawal, and service discontinuance. www.ibm.com Regards Parwez Hamid From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Carmen Vitullo Sent: 20 May 2022 16:29 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - CustomPac intended removal date that would be nice - but now with z13 and z13s processors you cannot even get IBM to perform any hardware changes since those boxes are EOSI think last June ? we were somewhat lucky the processors are already IN THE BOX so an MES of our Z13s was done in May before the EOS date to add a second zIIP processor Carmen On 5/20/2022 10:21 AM, Tom Brennan wrote: > Of course a free zIIP would be the best solution. But that's a > decision to be made by sales people, while running z/OSMF remotely > would be work (and maybe even a fun project) for a programmer. Now... > which group would more likely say yes? In my experience, don't even > bother trying to get something for free from someone in sales :) > > On 5/20/2022 6:14 AM, Pommier, Rex wrote: >> One would think that since IBM is forcing everybody to use z/OSMF >> they would accommodate their own customers and not force their >> smallest ones into expensive upgrades just to run this software. As >> Seymour mentioned, since zIIPs and the like are all normal >> processors, IBM should be able to build a bit of microcode to use an >> unlicensed engine to run z/OSMF. >> >> Rex >> >> -Original Message- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On >> Behalf Of Tom Brennan >> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:04 PM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mark your calendars for July 10, 2022 - >> CustomPac intended removal date >> >> Since z/OSMF is written in java, then why can't that high-CPU work >> run on another platform such as Power or x86, and then communicate >> with the mainframe for the z/OS work (i.e. submit jobs or whatever it >> does to run the actual installation). Or am I thinking too far out >> of the box? >> >> On 5/19/2022 6:15 PM, David Crayford wrote: >>> On 20/5/22 08:23, Andrew Rowley wrote: >>>> >>>>> Having a zIIP gives you plenty of horsepower for z/OSMF, and having >>>>> an IBM z15 gives you System Recovery Boost which gives you…plenty of >>>>> horsepower for z/OSMF at least during the first 60 minutes. (It’s >>>>> the z/OSMF startup that can take a long time on a low capacity >>>>> configuration. >>>> >>>> I wouldn't be surprised if once people start using z/OSMF, it's not >>>> just the startup that is slow on a small system. Maybe IBM should >>>> give everyone one zIIP with their z/OS 2.5 license... it might even >>>> be a useful stimulus for smaller z/OS sites. >>> >>> >>> 100% agree. The z/EDC ASIC is now free and on-die on the new hardware. >>> IBM should do the same with at least 1 zIIP. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >>> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . >>> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> -- >> The information contained in this message is confidential, protected >> from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this >> message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent >> responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, >
