Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
At 2005-08-19 13:32:33 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the prevailing atmosphere??? Right. I can answer that question better now, mostly by having studied the responses in this thread. Let's have a look, shall we? 1. Denial. What's wrong with the atmosphere, dammit? 2. Proof-by-anecdote that everything is just fine. 3. Cheap digs disguised as humour. You know, the kind where, if anyone objects, one can look injured and say, But it was a joke! Don't women have a sense of humour? 4. If only women bothered to show up more often, they'd see that everything is really all right. 5. We've done all we can. It's up to someone else now. Oh, and when the subject of encouraging women to participate *does* come up, there's usually this undercurrent of Yeah, we need more hot chicks in this group, man! The consequent feeling: Ugh. Better not get involved. -- ams ___ ilugd mailinglist -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
hassath wrote: On Fri, 2005-08-19 at 22:45, Abhijit Menon-Sen wrote: And Pankaj, this thread repeatedly will raise its ugly head because this issue has not been resolved. I am not sorry that it causes discomfort in your complacent world. I am neither discomforted by the discussion nor am I complacent, merely un-interested in discussions without a result. Yes, males do dominate most computer related areas. And not just computer related areas.It is a fact- but not one to be plainly accepted. The question arises- why is it so? And to take it further, in any field, why is it that the marginalised continue to stay marginalised? Is it because they are genetically predisposed to being marginalised? Or should one ask- What opportunities do they have- are they in any way equal to the opportunities of the more privileged? At this moment, I am talking only about gender, but my concerns extend to all marginalised people, in all areas. It is convenient to say that this is how things are- and be complacent about it. This was exactly my point, males *do* dominate various fields, similarly there are many fields that are dominated by women, teaching for example. All I wanted to say was that we have a bigger issue at hand. Its not just that it is *linux* and the language of linux that is intimidating to women thus they stay away. This group is a open community, anyone can raise her voice, if there are women on this list and meetings who feel that the *prevailing atmosphere* is unfriendly and discouraging then this issue must be raised by pointing out what exactly makes one un-welcome and it must be addressed. This subject does come up every now and then, people wonder why more women don't participate, they raise the issue and say, we should do something about it. The thread reaches 50 and everyone forgets about it because nobody knows what to do. You have made a start by raising the issue once again. Lets not dwell into the the nature of society at large but make this group, which you made yourself a part of by subscribing to the mailing-list a little more comfortable for women. P. -- Alas, even today there's little worth thinking and saying that does not grievously wound the state, the gods, and common decency. -Goethe ___ ilugd mailinglist -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 12:25, Pankaj kaushal wrote: I am neither discomforted by the discussion nor am I complacent, merely un-interested in discussions without a result. If there is a result-less discussion, maybe you could take more responsibility for it- you too are part of this list. What a typically privileged attitude - Oh, nothing comes out of these discussions! If you saw it as being in your interest, if you took ownership, you would try and get things to change. This was exactly my point, males *do* dominate various fields, similarly there are many fields that are dominated by women, teaching for example. All I wanted to say was that we have a bigger issue at hand. Its not just that it is *linux* and the language of linux that is intimidating to women thus they stay away. This group is a open community, anyone can raise her voice, if there are women on this list and meetings who feel that the *prevailing atmosphere* is unfriendly and discouraging then this issue must be raised by pointing out what exactly makes one un-welcome and it must be addressed. And we men shall sit back till such time as this happens, and will not be discomforted by the fact that there is no fair representation. It is not our responsibility as the privileged gender to make any initiatives- let the marginalised look after themselves. Amen. This subject does come up every now and then, people wonder why more women don't participate, they raise the issue and say, we should do something about it. The thread reaches 50 and everyone forgets about it because nobody knows what to do. You have made a start by raising the issue once again. Lets not dwell into the the nature of society at large As for not dwelling into the nature of society at large- i am sorry, i am incapable of seeing things in isolation and closing my eyes to larger connections- and i do not see it as a failing. but make this group, which you made yourself a part of by subscribing to the mailing-list a little more comfortable for women. Well, it will help if you refrain from referring to it (ever again) as ugly head. And, if you haven't heard any bad jokes, then it just means that you don't see- that you don't see what is offensive to women. If you check the freedel blog right away- the topmost post by raju- if you don't find something objectionable in it- i have only this to say: there are none as blind as those who will not see. And yes, specifically, if you want to make the list comfortable for women, DO NOT put the onus entirely on them- that is guaranteed to offend women. Regards, Hassath ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] license expire notice using cpanel
hi, I get a license expire notice when I try to login using cpanel on some remote server. This is usually corrected within minutes but some cases we may not be aware of the issue. I don't know why it does this. sometimes it takes numerous tries to get in. Somebody help me about this matter?? Thanks, Pardeep ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 12:07, Abhijit Menon-Sen wrote: At 2005-08-19 13:32:33 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the prevailing atmosphere??? Right. I can answer that question better now, mostly by having studied the responses in this thread. Let's have a look, shall we? 1. Denial. What's wrong with the atmosphere, dammit? 2. Proof-by-anecdote that everything is just fine. 3. Cheap digs disguised as humour. You know, the kind where, if anyone objects, one can look injured and say, But it was a joke! Don't women have a sense of humour? 4. If only women bothered to show up more often, they'd see that everything is really all right. 5. We've done all we can. It's up to someone else now. Oh, and when the subject of encouraging women to participate *does* come up, there's usually this undercurrent of Yeah, we need more hot chicks in this group, man! The consequent feeling: Ugh. Better not get involved. -- ams Thanks ams- i agree with all your points. I want to add another one, which i have mentioned in my response to Pankaj- the freedel blog has a posting (the top one) by raju which has an offensive attempt at humour. I would like to emphasise yet again- these jokes are not a reflection of a good sense of humour. And when a woman like me raises an objection, it is NOT a case of being oversensitive- if you can't see that and continue to behave like that- yes, women will be put off. I will be much obliged if i don't have to see jokes like that again on this list or on the blog. Regards, Hassath ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] license expire notice using cpanel
Pardeep == Pardeep Garg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Pardeep hi, I get a license expire notice when I try to login Pardeep using cpanel on some remote server. Pardeep This is usually corrected within minutes but some cases Pardeep we may not be aware of the issue. Pardeep I don't know why it does this. sometimes it takes Pardeep numerous tries to get in. Pardeep Somebody help me about this matter?? Since Cpanel is a paid product, why don't you ask the company for support? Regards, -- Raju -- Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F It is the mind that moves ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hassath == hassath [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hassath [snip] Hassath Thanks ams- i agree with all your points. I want to add Hassath another one, which i have mentioned in my response to Hassath Pankaj- the freedel blog has a posting (the top one) by Hassath raju which has an offensive attempt at humour. I would Hassath like to emphasise yet again- these jokes are not a Hassath reflection of a good sense of humour. And when a woman Hassath like me raises an objection, it is NOT a case of being Hassath oversensitive- if you can't see that and continue to Hassath behave like that- yes, women will be put off. I will be Hassath much obliged if i don't have to see jokes like that Hassath again on this list or on the blog. Fair enough. The attempt at humour was supposed to achieve the reverse of what you are reading it as, but that doesn't make a difference in this context. As I see it, we have two options open to us: - - Everyone introspect and figure out ways of doing things right so that more women feel comfortable in participating in the LUG. Perhaps people who have had prior experience with gender issues can come forth and give inputs, or be blunt and specific when some line is crossed. We hope that eventually the lists and the group become more sensitive. - - People who care about the predominance of men in the LUG take steps to actively encourage the participation of women. Of course, there's a third option too: - - Do nothing and let things continue their way. At the moment we're all sitting around agreeing that an issue has been identified, but none of us is actually doing anything to suggest steps that can be taken to resolve it. Do such steps exist? If they do, who can enumerate them? Once potential solutions are known, can we work together to implement them? I don't know the answers to any of these questions. However, since you have brought the issue up, I'd invoke the ILUG-Delhi rule and have you automagically volunteered for going deeper into it. I personally would be very happy to have the male dominance in ILUG-Delhi broken, so if you have ideas please share them for my benefit at least. Regards, - -- Raju - -- Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F It is the mind that moves -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8 http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/ iD8DBQFDCZSfyWjQ78xo0X8RAuJzAJ9ivtbcrKPD2vMs9PAm1AhY1hiHbwCcCTp2 nJn5Gk4nC8yoUXpSvNPepFA= =6U/d -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
Fair enough. The attempt at humour was supposed to achieve the reverse of what you are reading it as, but that doesn't make a difference in this context. As I see it, we have two options open to us: - - Everyone introspect and figure out ways of doing things right so that more women feel comfortable in participating in the LUG. Perhaps people who have had prior experience with gender issues can come forth and give inputs, or be blunt and specific when some line is crossed. We hope that eventually the lists and the group become more sensitive. - - People who care about the predominance of men in the LUG take steps to actively encourage the participation of women. Of course, there's a third option too: - - Do nothing and let things continue their way. At the moment we're all sitting around agreeing that an issue has been identified, but none of us is actually doing anything to suggest steps that can be taken to resolve it. Do such steps exist? If they do, who can enumerate them? Once potential solutions are known, can we work together to implement them? I don't know the answers to any of these questions. However, since you have brought the issue up, I'd invoke the ILUG-Delhi rule and have you automagically volunteered for going deeper into it. I personally would be very happy to have the male dominance in ILUG-Delhi broken, so if you have ideas please share them for my benefit at least. Regards, - -- Raju --if i may add the fourth option where by women can accept men as they are and STILL come forward and make a difference rather than be in the stand and comment. So women can crib OR make a difference to LUG as a whole group + Linux. My request and invitation is for women to accept men as they are and step forward and play in then LUG field and make an enormous difference. Reg Nitin Chandra Srivastava __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
On Monday, 22 Aug 2005 1:19 pm, hassath wrote: On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 12:25, Pankaj kaushal wrote: I am neither discomforted by the discussion nor am I complacent, merely un-interested in discussions without a result. If there is a result-less discussion, maybe you could take more responsibility for it- you too are part of this list. What a typically privileged attitude - Oh, nothing comes out of these discussions! If you saw it as being in your interest, if you took ownership, you would try and get things to change. Hassath, let us discuss this without getting bitter. I understand the frustation, and I do agree with AMS that atmosphere in the LUG meets is something that will make women (or children or any elderly people) uncomfortable. Like someone recently said - nobody tries to make the environment women-unfriendly. However, while I agree that the atmosphere is not right, I also have to bring it to your attention that this is a chicken and egg situation too. Because there are no girls or women or children generally at these meets, people have conversation in a manner which would otherwise not be acceptable in front of other sections of the population. We have had this discussion before, yes, but the reasons why they were inconclusive was because it was discussed primarily between us males only. Hassath, there are certain aspects of male conversation which we know are not appropriate if women are around (jokes about pr0n, for example). However, there are many other aspects which only a woman can sensitize us about. As you pointed out, you found an official announcement in bad taste. There would be some parts of that which are immediately understandable as being inappropriate. However, there might be other parts of the conversation which might not be so clear to others. We need help on this from women like you. Please help us clean out all our official announcements on Freedel, for instance. Just as we need people with experience in dealing with physically challenged persons, to sensitize us about building accessible technology, we need help from women professionals like you who deal with such issues everyday, to help make ILUGD more friendly to all sections of the population. (Uh. huh. Bad analogy - might be taken otherwise by certain people. I am not trying to make any insinuation about women being challenged in anyway. ... Sigh. See how difficult being politically correct all the time is?) - Sandip -- Sandip Bhattacharya |[EMAIL PROTECTED] Puroga Technologies Pvt. Ltd. | http://www.puroga.com GPG/PGP Fingerprint: 51A4 6C57 4BC6 8C82 6A65 AE78 B1A1 2280 A129 0FF3 ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
Nitin Chandra wrote: --if i may add the fourth option where by women can accept men as they are and STILL come forward and make a difference rather than be in the stand and comment. Well thats the standard arguement accept us as we are . So one is not expected to change for the better. men are abusive so let them be - accept them as they are men can harass women - accept that men can use crude and filthy language - accept that. Men are wife / women beaters - so let them be - accept them as that I wonder if you will take any form of filthy language thats aimed at your being, your sex, your caste your height or whatever. Esp if it comes from someone more powerful that you. Or if its been systemaic over the ages - centuries. So patriarchy is okay - just as much as facism is okay. - **Really* ***Come on** - just go through the entire discussion and try and see whats been said. Make an attempt to understand, to see the issues involved. and don't bellitle the one woman who has come forward to try and make a difference by saying she is standing and commenting - she's done enough to raise the issues. She's got a lot more guts than many men who are finding it difficult to understand that they may be doing something wrong, or are being insensitive and crude. Nitin Chandra wrote: So women can crib OR make a difference to LUG as a whole group + Linux. Who's cribbing - its a discussion and some points are being raised to try and make a difference to the LUG - a big difference. My request and invitation is for women to accept men as they are and step forward and play in then LUG field and make an enormous difference.??? I thought it was some of the men who were asking why aren't there more women on this list. Maybe women don't need this list at all or they don't need to interact with the men that this list is showing up ??? May be you can make an enormous difference by understanding the issues that face women in read and write educated indian society. Reg Nitin Chandra Srivastava ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
hassath wrote: On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 12:25, Pankaj kaushal wrote: If there is a result-less discussion, maybe you could take more responsibility for it- you too are part of this list. What a typically privileged attitude - Oh, nothing comes out of these discussions! If you saw it as being in your interest, if you took ownership, you would try and get things to change. I am trying to stay out of it, but you are insistent on having a flame war by taking cheap dig's at me. The statement which I made and so rakishly used by you in your every post, was a result of these very fruitless discussions. However, I am trying to be in this discussion because I hope that this time it will not be result less. You are not helping matters tremendously. As for not dwelling into the nature of society at large- i am sorry, i am incapable of seeing things in isolation and closing my eyes to larger connections- and i do not see it as a failing. Neither am I a student of sociology or culture, and nor do I have the necessary knowledge to dwell at this point of time thus, I will not dwell into the nature of society at large. It is a big question and many have spent their entire life on the quest which still remains unsolved and mysterious at best. It does interest me, but to publicly regurgitate a popular notion or quote focualt is not my style. My understanding of gender inequality, marginalized communities, religion and sexuality is not in accord with that which is popular or that which is taught and this is not the right forum to discuss it. If you are interested we can take it off-list. And by dwelling into the nature of society at large in public, all we are doing at the moment is sitting around agreeing that there is an issue but none of us is actually suggesting anything that can be *done* to resolve it. I suggested one step only to be a target of mudslinging. P. -- Alas, even today there's little worth thinking and saying that does not grievously wound the state, the gods, and common decency. -Goethe ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
On Monday, 22 Aug 2005 2:32 pm, Raj Mathur wrote: Fair enough. The attempt at humour was supposed to achieve the reverse of what you are reading it as, but that doesn't make a difference in this context. Actually Raj, now that I have re-read it, I agree with Hassath that it is *potentially* offensive to women. While it might be perceived as humorous to men, it appears condescending to women, and hence seems insulting. Since the blog is the official face of Freedel till the main site comes up, I am making some changes as Hassath has pointed out, *with* an appropriate notice that this is not the original post. I would like everybody on this list to keep pointing out whenever our communication to the world or actions is not appropriate to any particular section of the society - be it women, children or physically challenged. This also brings up an idea that I had some time back. How about asking people working in the field of FLOSS software for the physically challenged, to have their own section in the talks? Only FLOSS software please, because this is a FLOSS event. And how about ensuring that all facilities at the event are physically-challenged friendly? - Sandip -- Sandip Bhattacharya *Puroga Technologies * [EMAIL PROTECTED] Work: http://www.puroga.com * Home/Blog: http://www.sandipb.net/blog PGP/GPG Signature: 51A4 6C57 4BC6 8C82 6A65 AE78 B1A1 2280 A129 0FF3 ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: Hassath, let us discuss this without getting bitter. I understand the frustation, and I do agree with AMS that atmosphere in the LUG meets is something that will make women (or children or any elderly people) uncomfortable. Sandip this bitterness - which you see - is not being able to get an important issue across. Check out the number of typical male mails coming on this discussion - and thats whats happening to women day and night for all their lives. Instead of asking Hassath not to be bitter lets try and not let it get to that situation. Like someone recently said - nobody tries to make the environment women-unfriendly. But is there an attempt to consider that what exists might anyway be unfriendly. See I don;t want to pitch in - as part of the list I too am to blame for not have said / done anything and lain silent - complacent. Its some woman activists job. Sorry However, while I agree that the atmosphere is not right, I also have to bring it to your attention that this is a chicken and egg situation too. Because there are no girls or women or children generally at these meets, people have conversation in a manner which would otherwise not be acceptable in front of other sections of the population. The list does have some women and maybe some men who do find the language of the mail list insensitive as well. There is an audience that reads the mails and the stuff is that not enough - does it have to only physical presence of a certain class of people around that dictates behaviour. If so then many of us are leading multiple lives and many in hiding. Shouldn't our lives be open - like open source - clean but buggy and transparent but powerful. We need help on this from women like you. Please help us clean out all our official announcements on Freedel, for instance. Why is the onus on women to help clean up - if we understand the issue is it not up to us to make the effort. Just as we need people with experience in dealing with physically challenged persons, to sensitize us about building accessible technology, we need help from women professionals like you who deal with such issues everyday, to help make ILUGD more friendly to all sections of the population. (Uh. huh. Bad analogy - might be taken otherwise by certain people. I am not trying to make any insinuation about women being challenged in anyway. ... Sigh. See how difficult being politically correct all the time is?) Again why somebody with experience - why make someone else responsible for the clean up - is this clean up going to be restricted to the list - thats one way . But ... the sensitivity has to be across the board - if a man !!! is cleaned up because of rules in the ILUG thats one thing - that means he is free to be insensitive is other parts of his life. Ultimately it won't work. The issues that concern this list are the same concerns that exist in larger society. Maybe a few cannot raise all the issues all the time. But all of us certainly can. - Sandip ram ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 15:40, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well thats the standard arguement accept us as we are . So one is not expected to change for the better. men are abusive so let them be - accept them as they are men can harass women - accept that men can use crude and filthy language - accept that. Men are wife / women beaters - so let them be - accept them as that I wonder if you will take any form of filthy language thats aimed at your being, your sex, your caste your height or whatever. Esp if it comes from someone more powerful that you. Or if its been systemaic over the ages - centuries. So patriarchy is okay - just as much as facism is okay. - **Really* ***Come on** - just go through the entire discussion and try and see whats been said. Make an attempt to understand, to see the issues involved. Thanks a lot, ram- i don't think i could have said it better. It just proves- you don't have to be a woman to understand these issues. I thought it was some of the men who were asking why aren't there more women on this list. Maybe women don't need this list at all or they don't need to interact with the men that this list is showing up ??? I think this thread has just proved the point- perhaps I don't need to spend my energy interacting with such men... On the other hand, perhaps they need to hear more of the other perspective... Regards, Hassath ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
Hassath On the other hand, perhaps they need to hear more of the other perspective... Regards, But it always helps to have the other around. In fact the more others the better it will get I hope ram ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
At 2005-08-22 02:48:17 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: where by women can accept men as they are and STILL come forward and make a difference rather than be in the stand and comment. Which nicely removes all responsibility from you, and allows you to say, with a straight face, that the problem is because women are unwilling to accept men or come forward to make a difference. Right? So women can crib OR make a difference to LUG as a whole group + Linux. Crib? *Crib*? You call it cribbing when someone responds honestly to a direct question about why women find it uncomfortable to participate in LUG activities? You don't think the subject makes a difference to the LUG? My request and invitation is for women to accept men as they are and step forward and play in then LUG field and make an enormous difference. Your request and invitation (more like a diktat, really) are out of touch with reality, and offensive in the extreme. Women don't need to accept anything to make a difference to Linux. If the LUG behaves in a manner which women prefer to not get involved in, then they will continue to not get involved in it. And you, not they, would be responsible. -- ams ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
On Monday, 22 Aug 2005 3:56 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sandip this bitterness - which you see - is not being able to get an important issue across. Check out the number of typical male mails As I said, I understand the reason behind the bitterness, but being bitter never helps in having a good discussion, and veers the conversation to a personal nature (take a look at some of the subsequent posts till now). That is all. Like someone recently said - nobody tries to make the environment women-unfriendly. But is there an attempt to consider that what exists might anyway be unfriendly. Isnt this thread one? See I don;t want to pitch in - as part of the list I too am to blame for not have said / done anything and lain silent - complacent. Its some woman activists job. Sorry The women dont have to be activists. Any women can help us. The more, the better. What one woman takes as an offense might seem harmless to other. The more the women, the more clear the directions will be. The list does have some women and maybe some men who do find the language of the mail list insensitive as well. Please keep pointing out. I am sure the majority of the people here want more sections of the population to participate, and would do anything to see it happens. There is an audience that reads the mails and the stuff is that not enough - does it have to only physical presence of a certain class of people around that dictates behaviour. If so then many of us are leading multiple lives and many in hiding. Shouldn't our lives be open - like open source - clean but buggy and transparent but powerful. Umm. We need help on this from women like you. Please help us clean out all our official announcements on Freedel, for instance. Why is the onus on women to help clean up - if we understand the issue is it not up to us to make the effort. Please read my complete mail. I said that we will keep a close check to see the obvious issues sorted out, but there might be other issues that we might have missed. Again why somebody with experience - why make someone else responsible for the clean up - is this clean up going to be restricted to the list - thats one way . But ... the sensitivity has to be across the board - if a man !!! is cleaned up because of rules in the ILUG thats one thing - that means he is free to be insensitive is other parts of his life. Ultimately it won't work. Notice, that in all my mails I have tried to send across the message that our public messages should be suitable to not just women, but children and physically challenged too. This is not all common sense. It also requires people who are actually in these situations, who have seen the needs of these sections, and felt the pain of these sections of the society. Without actualy being or helping a physically challenged person, can you always think of all their needs while designing a software, for instance? This is not an ideal world, and lets not keep hoping that it will be so today or tomorrow just by our thinking to be so. There is no loss of face in asking for help - many organizations do. - Sandip -- Sandip Bhattacharya *Puroga Technologies * [EMAIL PROTECTED] Work: http://www.puroga.com * Home/Blog: http://www.sandipb.net/blog PGP/GPG Signature: 51A4 6C57 4BC6 8C82 6A65 AE78 B1A1 2280 A129 0FF3 ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nitin Chandra wrote: --if i may add the fourth option where by women can accept men as they are and STILL come forward and make a difference rather than be in the stand and comment. Well thats the standard arguement accept us as we are . So one is not expected to change for the better. men are abusive so let them be - accept them as they are men can harass women - accept that men can use crude and filthy language - accept that. Men are wife / women beaters - so let them be - accept them as that Well if the context of my statment is not understood by some people who are challangedlet me state for the general also...my statment was specific to the discussion of women on th list. Unfortunately understood beyond that. I wonder if you will take any form of filthy language thats aimed at your being, your sex, your caste your height or whatever. Esp if it comes from someone more powerful that you. Or if its been systemaic over the ages - centuries. Been there experienced that. Well I HAVE BEEN CATCALLED N WISTLED BY GROUP OF WOMEN UNKNOWN TO ME , SO let not make those kind of statments again. As from your statment i undestand that women are so dammingly oppressed.THAT IS your understanding...MY BELIEF IS WOMEN HAVE EQUAL RIGHT TO WORK AND PARTY. So patriarchy is okay - just as much as facism is okay. - **Really* ***Come on** - just go through the entire discussion and try and see whats been said. Make an attempt to understand, to see the issues involved. Well this not the 1st time this topic has been raised and then also i saw this discussion. and don't bellitle the one woman who has come forward to try and make a difference by saying she is standing and commenting - she's done enough to raise the issues. She's got a lot more guts than many men who are finding it difficult to understand that they may be doing something wrong, or are being insensitive and crude. It is great that finally a women picked up an issue which desperatly needs addressing as rightly said ...when 1 half of the people are not participating , how can there be an over all development. Nitin Chandra wrote: So women can crib OR make a difference to LUG as a whole group + Linux. Who's cribbing - its a discussion and some points are being raised to try and make a difference to the LUG - a big difference. My request and invitation is for women to accept men as they are and step forward and play in then LUG field and make an enormous difference.??? I thought it was some of the men who were asking why aren't there more women on this list. Maybe women don't need this list at all or they don't need to interact with the men that this list is showing up ??? Women just need to jump in and get the language barrier resolved during the LUG meetings THAT is what i am saying by making a difference. AND PLEASE DONT BE UNDER AN IMPRESSION THAT MEN WILL NOT STAND BY THE WOMEN WHEN THESE ISSUES ARE RAISED. BE THERE AT THE MEETING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. May be you can make an enormous difference by understanding the issues that face women in read and write educated indian society. I see you deviated from the issue at hand ...of women on the LUG. Rather than contributing to the development of this discussion for a permenant solution at hand u start shredding other peoples comments. NOW this attitude is keeping people away too. U dont understand some one's statment request for clarification BEFORE u opine. One does not know another individual to comment on him. Reg Nitin Chandra Srivastava Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 15:33, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: On Monday, 22 Aug 2005 1:19 pm, hassath wrote: Hassath, let us discuss this without getting bitter. I understand the frustation, and I do agree with AMS that atmosphere in the LUG meets is something that will make women (or children or any elderly people) uncomfortable. Like someone recently said - nobody tries to make the environment women-unfriendly. However, while I agree that the atmosphere is not right, I also have to bring it to your attention that this is a chicken and egg situation too. Because there are no girls or women or children generally at these meets, people have conversation in a manner which would otherwise not be acceptable in front of other sections of the population. We have had this discussion before, yes, but the reasons why they were inconclusive was because it was discussed primarily between us males only. Hassath, there are certain aspects of male conversation which we know are not appropriate if women are around (jokes about pr0n, for example). However, there are many other aspects which only a woman can sensitize us about. As you pointed out, you found an official announcement in bad taste. There would be some parts of that which are immediately understandable as being inappropriate. However, there might be other parts of the conversation which might not be so clear to others. We need help on this from women like you. Please help us clean out all our official announcements on Freedel, for instance. Just as we need people with experience in dealing with physically challenged persons, to sensitize us about building accessible technology, we need help from women professionals like you who deal with such issues everyday, to help make ILUGD more friendly to all sections of the population. (Uh. huh. Bad analogy - might be taken otherwise by certain people. I am not trying to make any insinuation about women being challenged in anyway. ... Sigh. See how difficult being politically correct all the time is?) - Sandip Yeah, if being gender sensitive is so difficult, and being patriarchal is so easy, maybe I made a mistake in raising the issue. And Sandip, my bitterness is not the bitterness of this thread on this mailing list- it is the bitterness of countless women being marginalised and being subjected to patriarchy by the dominant sex over centuries in various fields of life. Why can't you all help with empowerment- so that women don't feel bitter? I repeat- I am not bitter against the few males who have helped me learn what I do know, as far as FLOSS is concerned. If you can't take a certain amount of bitterness from the marginalised, then maybe you shouldn't be interacting with them. Have you noticed what has made me bitter- even limiting it to the list? Please try to understand. If bitterness becomes more of the issue,than the issue- then i really don't know. Like i said, I brought up the issue cos i thought the list was actually interested in changes. If it isn't, then sorry- I take my hands off. Regards, Hassath ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux LAN and BSNL Dataone
hi, the first thing that comes to mind is that if the bsnl adsl device is connected to the switch directly then it has to be a router. I believe bsnl is giving away huawei routers with some connections. if this is the case then you dont have to do anything other than setting both pcs to dhcp as the router will assign ipaddresses and also act as dns forwarder. if it is a usb modem then what raj says holds good. catch ya later (Ive gotta UnWire Life!!!) shiv __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ram == ramnarayan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ram [snip] Ram Again why somebody with experience - why make someone else Ram responsible for the clean up - is this clean up going to be Ram restricted to the list - thats one way . But ... the Ram sensitivity has to be across the board - if a man !!! is Ram cleaned up because of rules in the ILUG thats one thing - Ram that means he is free to be insensitive is other parts of his Ram life. Ultimately it won't work. Let's be very clear about what we're trying to achieve -- we're talking about making ILUG-Delhi a place where women feel comfortable interacting and participating. I feel that it makes sense to bring in larger issues of social change where they can have an impact on the issue at hand; however talking about social change just because it is perceived as desirable and bringing it into the ambit of this discussion is counter-productive -- that will quickly lead to complete chaos and we'll be no better of than where we started, if not worse. Ram The issues that concern this list are the same concerns that Ram exist in larger society. Maybe a few cannot raise all the Ram issues all the time. But all of us certainly can. Let's discuss the larger social issues within the context of this group. Regards, - -- Raju - -- Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F It is the mind that moves -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8 http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/ iD8DBQFDCa+VyWjQ78xo0X8RAmaOAJsFmqeA3/65+UIhJ+ZXEhIf8dlWggCbBy9a j9CfE4aWeBMg0wT+ZBJGNec= =LNyu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Ad Blockers for Linux
If you are using Firefox then have a look at Adblock extenstion and load a filterset from Filterset.G (http://www.pierceive.com/) Thanks... it worked! Nandz. -- http://nandz.blogspot.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
Just one quibble in isolation: At 2005-08-22 15:33:13 +0530, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sigh. See how difficult being politically correct all the time is? Sandeep, it's not about being politically correct. At all. Ever. Everyone thinks political correctness is ridiculous, including women, disabled people, and the other grateful recipients of its largesse. PC is only about reducing legal liability by paying lip service to sensitivity and pretending the problem has gone away. Since you *are* trying to address the real problem, though, it's best to avoid associating it with PC in any shape or form. (Yes, I know it was an offhand comment on your part. I'm just trying to make a point.) -- ams ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
At 2005-08-22 03:54:17 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I HAVE BEEN CATCALLED N WISTLED BY GROUP OF WOMEN UNKNOWN TO ME OH MY GOD! THOSE SHAMELESS HUSSIES! How *dare* they complain about oppression or exclusion?! Women just need to jump in and get the language barrier resolved during the LUG meetings That's right. The problem is just a little language barrier that can be solved by a little effort on the women's part, and then everything will be just fine, and men don't have to deal with any of this nasty responsibility stuff. AND PLEASE DONT BE UNDER AN IMPRESSION THAT MEN WILL NOT STAND BY THE WOMEN WHEN THESE ISSUES ARE RAISED. The question isn't whether men will stand by them or not. The question is whether any woman will want to stand by -- or indeed, within fifty metres of -- anyone who expresses your sentiments. -- ams ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] How to create a new linux user on the fly
Couple of things that can be done are as follows : 1. You use suexec and take let AMS have fun with his bots. 2. You do a sudo and have the same problem as above. In both cases you just hope there are no bugs in your implementation which would result in your system being hacked or made useless long before you realized what has happened. 3. You use the web front end as a queuing mechanism and allow a separate superuser process to implement the creation process. Better in the sense that your application is modular and each module does what it is good at. Throw in a authorization step and the whole thing is a little more secure. 4. Do you really need to change the system setup ? Most requirements can easily be fulfilled by implementing a separate authorization and authentication mechanism which is independant of the system accounts. This can only be answered by you and the answer would probably be valid for your specific case. Look at what CVS and Vpopmail does to handle situation where they have multiple users accessing the server but dont necessarily have anything to do with a system account on the server. Mithun --- Abhishek Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Friends, I wanted to create a linux user on the fly(ie. With mine PERL/CGI script) . Is there a method to do so. I am having a webserver with root access. Pl. reply. The distro I will be using is Redhat Enterprise Linux. Thanks for your time and effort. Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] Indexing the mailing lists
Hi, I was wondering whether there is any consious decission not to allow the mailing lists to be indexed by the search engines. There has been quite a few emails I would like to refer back to but I find them impossible to find on google atleast. I believe we have a pretty decent sized archive of both the LUGD and LIH mailing lists which should have quite a bit of useful information for the world in general :). Mithun __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Indexing the mailing lists
Mithun == Mithun Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mithun Hi, I was wondering whether there is any consious Mithun decission not to allow the mailing lists to be indexed by Mithun the search engines. There has been quite a few emails I Mithun would like to refer back to but I find them impossible to Mithun find on google atleast. Mithun I believe we have a pretty decent sized archive of both Mithun the LUGD and LIH mailing lists which should have quite a Mithun bit of useful information for the world in general :). They're indexed as far as I can make out: http://www.google.com/search?q=linux-india-help+raj+mathursourceid=mozilla-searchstart=0start=0ie=utf-8oe=utf-8client=firefoxrls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial -- Raju -- Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F It is the mind that moves ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Indexing the mailing lists
On Monday, 22 Aug 2005 9:41 pm, Mithun Bhattacharya wrote: My only concern is that there is no easy way to search the mailing lists effectively. Google provide a effective search tool sourceforge doesnt. How about trying the gmane archive instead? - Sandip -- Sandip Bhattacharya *Puroga Technologies * [EMAIL PROTECTED] Work: http://www.puroga.com * Home/Blog: http://www.sandipb.net/blog PGP/GPG Signature: 51A4 6C57 4BC6 8C82 6A65 AE78 B1A1 2280 A129 0FF3 ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Indexing the mailing lists
--- Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They're indexed as far as I can make out: http://www.google.com/search?q=linux-india-help+raj+mathursourceid=mozilla-searchstart=0start=0ie=utf-8oe=utf-8client=firefoxrls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial Simple example http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=2049max_rows=100offset=100style=ultimateviewmonth=200305 Dileep M. Kumar started a thread with subject RHL 9.0 CD duplication problem which resulted in 10 emails being exchanged, yet I dont seem to be able to search that topic in google.com Taking Raj Mathur's example if I filter all the emails from Raj Mathur that are visible in sourceforge.net I get the following http://www.google.com/search?hl=enlr=client=firefoxrls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aunofficialq=%2B%22Raj+Mathur%22+site%3Asourceforge.netbtnG=Search I have a feeling Raju has written a few more emails than 19 in all the linux india mailing lists combined. My only concern is that there is no easy way to search the mailing lists effectively. Google provide a effective search tool sourceforge doesnt. Mithun __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] [LIH]Indexing the mailing lists
--- Kumar Appaiah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check this as well: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi And how would anyone know about that if Google doesnt show the pages from there ? Try searching for mere paas ClusterKnoppix hai on google which should show this page http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi/month=20040301 linked from http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi Mithun __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] Fwd: Oryx Mailstore 0.97
- Forwarded message from Abhijit Menon-Sen [EMAIL PROTECTED] - From: Abhijit Menon-Sen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Oryx Mailstore 0.97 Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 20:48:35 +0200 (CEST) Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] We are happy to announce the release of Oryx Mailstore 0.97. http://www.oryx.com/mailstore/0.97.html Oryx is now using Mailstore to handle all of its own mail. In this release, we have focused on fixing problems we found in production during the last month. Changes since 0.96: - The command-line administration tool (ms) is more capable and usable. - We try to handle unlabelled 8-bit content in messages. - Many IMAP and SMTP protocol problems have been fixed. - The few internal bugs that crashed our server have been fixed. - Error handling and operational behaviour have been improved. Known problems: - msconsole and the servers can use far too much RAM. - 8-bit names in address fields may be handled incorrectly. - We don't handle some common encodings (GB2312, for example). The servers no longer try to upgrade the database schema on startup. If you're upgrading from an older version, please run ms upgrade schema by hand instead. We plan to release 0.98 on 2005-09-19 (and 1.0 sometime in November). Please send bug reports, questions, and suggestions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you for testing Mailstore. - End forwarded message - -- ams ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 16:10, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But it always helps to have the other around. In fact the more others the better it will get I hope ram Thanks Ram. At any rate, I am not interested in exchanging insults and accusations.(It's not a woman's way, honestly ;-)) Those who are capable of seeing the point, would have seen it already.So here's at least a couple of points- as to what can be done: 1. I am pasting below a link- though not Indian in context, still helpful. Even those of you who have seen it earlier, please try to go through it again, especially in the context of the postings on this thread. http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ 2. Secondly, if there is ever a discussion like this, all the men could help by refraining from pointing out to the (lone) woman what is wrong with her attitude / nature of her postings. Instead, it would help if you pointed out to the people who are being obviously offensive that it is not ok. I acknowledge and appreciate that a few of you have indeed done that in this case, and I would like to thank them. And hope that more of you do that. You see, help, appreciation, support- articulated and expressed, would make the whole space more comfortable. 3. Perhaps I don't need to respond to the remark about women having to accept men as they are- it has been responded to. But I just want to make the point that it is the kind of remark that is enough to make a woman want to withdraw from the list. No woman is obliged to accept any man for what he is. (And vice versa). That remark illustrates the attitude that men are god's gift to womankind. I am very sorry to disillusion you, but they are most certainly NOT 4. Whenever the next meeting is scheduled, I will try to make it- if I can arrange my schedule accordingly. Please do try and see if you know any other women who would also come (I don't know of any at the moment). I repeat, I did not enter this discussion in an accusatory tone. Nor am I naive enough to believe that changes happen overnight, or that they are complete when they do happen. But I am willing to try. All help from anyone who thinks it's worthwhile- is welcome. Regards, Hassath PS: I have had a mail addressed to me off-list, which is the kind of thing I would say would put off less determined (stubborn?) women. But here I am, nevertheless ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d?
On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 15:55, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: On Monday, 22 Aug 2005 2:32 pm, Raj Mathur wrote: Actually Raj, now that I have re-read it, I agree with Hassath that it is *potentially* offensive to women. While it might be perceived as humorous to men, it appears condescending to women, and hence seems insulting. Since the blog is the official face of Freedel till the main site comes up, I am making some changes as Hassath has pointed out, *with* an appropriate notice that this is not the original post. Thanks Sandip, for making the correction on Freedel. And I would like to say that it was not potentially, but very emphatically in-the-face offensive to women, and anybody else with the sensibility. And I am not labouring a point. If men can see and accept an objection for what it is, without attempting to dilute it, it would help things change for the better. Regards, Hassath ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] D00d3tt3z on ILUG-d - Solution suggestions
At 2005-08-22 10:30:29 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing which we can very clearly disregard is the possibility that the list is not interested. Right. Enough people are interested in solving the problem that rehashing the argument will just give the disinclined more rope to waste everyone's time with. Suggestions about what to do next: [...] But first... To any women on the list who have felt uncomfortable to post or attend meetings: please try again. We can't promise that offensive behaviour will never occur on the list, but it will not be tolerated in silence. Your participation will go a long way towards making the list a better place for everyone. Maybe a small section on avoiding certain phrases/jokes etc which may be offensive to a specific group on the list I don't think it's a good idea to try and prescribe acceptable forms of speech. The intention is to discourage disrespect and hostility, rather than to encourage new ways for its expression. I think the guidelines are OK (at most, they could use some clarification, perhaps). We just need to be careful to avoid complicity-by-apathy. -- ams ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
