Re: [lace] Le Pompe patterns, shorter

[Alice Howell]

--- Tamara P Duvall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> So, my question is this:
> How much interest is there, *among the IOLI
> members*, in reproductions 
> of old plaited laces 

It is very interesting to read about this right now. 
I just got an email from a person writing a novel that
includes a lacemaker about 1600.  The person is
wanting instruction in how to do bobbin lace, and what
the patterns and lace looked like at that time.  I'm
still trying to make contact and set up a meeting.  I
think it's a positive thing that the author is seeking
information in order to be accurate to the period in
her book.

I'll try to inform the group if/when the book gets
published.

Alice in Oregon

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Fwd: [lace] Oya

[Tamara P Duvall]

Gremlins are pulling Avital's leg; she posts to *lace* (see address 
below) and it ends up in chat... So, maybe,  I'll have better luck :)


Begin forwarded message:


From: Avital <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: January 29, 2007 23:36:57 EST
To: lace 
Subject: [lace] Oya
Reply-To: Avital <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Darn--I was sure I sent this to lace but it ended back on lace-chat! 
Must have

typed in the wrong address. Here it is again.

Avital





I'm sending this to lace, because that's where it belongs.

If you search in the archives 
,

you will come up with many past discussions of oya.

Avital
Arachne moderator

- Original Message -
From: Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, January 29, 2007 1:14 pm
Subject: [lace-chat] Oya


Can anyone tell me if they have heard of Oya Lace? also is there a
web site I
may be able to look at the type of lace it is.
Thanks in advance,
Shirley in Corio Oz.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




--
Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/
Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland)

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[lace] Oya

[Avital]

Darn--I was sure I sent this to lace but it ended back on lace-chat! Must have
typed in the wrong address. Here it is again.

Avital


>>>
I'm sending this to lace, because that's where it belongs.

If you search in the archives ,
you will come up with many past discussions of oya.

Avital
Arachne moderator

- Original Message -
From: Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, January 29, 2007 1:14 pm
Subject: [lace-chat] Oya

> Can anyone tell me if they have heard of Oya Lace? also is there a
> web site I
> may be able to look at the type of lace it is.
> Thanks in advance,
> Shirley in Corio Oz.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

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Re: [lace] Le Pompe patterns, shorter

[Ellen Winnie]

This subject is dragging me out of lurk mode ;-)

I have been working almost exclusively with pre-1600 laces, and I 
agree with Tamara that there are no or very few sewings.  With the 
heavier threads used for many of those laces, sewings would just be 
too bulky.

I have worked some of the Le Pompe patterns and I would never work 
from the woodcut.  I don't think the pricking would be accurate or 
even.  Just the nature of woodcuts.

I have been experimenting with various metallic threads trying to 
duplicate the correct texture of the metallic laces.  Most modern 
metallic threads just don't work.  Most modern metallic threads have 
no metal in them, and are too fine in diameter. They are just not the 
correct weight. It also doesn't work to double up on the thread - 
still doesn't look right and is a real pain to work.  The heavier 
"metallic" threads have a tendency to "fracture", producing a faceted 
effect when pulled up.  Then there is the shredding  :-P

I currently have obtained some gold and silver jap that I am going to 
play with this weekend.  There are 2 patterns I have drafted from 
some lace on an extant dress featured in Janet Arnold's Pattern's of 
Fashion, book one.  I have not yet found a suitable metallic to use 
for reproduction.

Next week I am going to place an order for Moravia 40/2,  another 
lacemaker on Live Journal is having some good results with it and I 
am anxious to play with it myself.

BTW, Tamara,  I have drafted two prickings from lace in paintings and 
a few more from extant pieces - interested?

Back to lurking!

Ellen
Washington State, USA





At 10:50 PM -0500 1/29/07, Tamara P Duvall wrote:
>To go back to Orla's original posting:
>
>>It looks like it's about 20 pairs of bobbins and is made of Kreinik cord
>>- which has become my favorite thing to use for metallics.  The biggest
>>pain for it is that there are sewings all over the place.  Every
>>vertical line in the footside requres sewings as does the triple loop
>>at the top.
>
>I was *so* disturbed by Orla's claim of the multitude of sewings, 
>that I fired up my pillow today and started working on that pattern 
>(Le Pompe, Book one, p.17, B)  :)  "About 20 pairs" is correct; by 
>my reckoning, you need either 18 or 21 (I'm using the 21 version). I 
>didn't make a separate pricking; I'm using the woodcut "as is", same 
>as Orla. And I'm using Kreinik cord (though in copper; didn't have 
>any gold on hand) -- again, same as Orla. Which meant that, in order 
>to fit the thread (and keep the lace looking as robust as it had 
>been in 15hundreds), I had to photocopy the woodcut in the 
>Levey/Payne Le Pompe at 65%.
>
>My early experience -- between a quarter and a third of the first 
>repeat -- confirms my preconceived theory: there are no sewings at 
>all in that pattern.
>
>Personally, I hate metallic thread-- it combines all the faults of 
>natural fiber and wire, without having any overwhelming compensation 
>for the faults :) The next sample will be both larger and made in 
>linen. I doubt a wire sample will follow -- this is not my favourite 
>Le Pompe pattern :)
>
>So far, all the effort has been directed at scratching my personal 
>curiosity itch -- can I make this without any sewings at all, the 
>way I *think* it must have been made in 1550?But, a BL Editor for 
>the IOLI Bulletin cannot afford too many moments of *idle* 
>curiosity; I'd like to publish the pattern (pricking, diagrams) in 
>the Bulletin eventually. And, maybe, some other 16th c repros as 
>well.
>
>So, my question is this:
>How much interest is there, *among the IOLI members*, in 
>reproductions of old plaited laces (in thread or in wire or both)? I 
>know SCA-affiliated lacemakers might be interested, because, with 
>their cut-off date being 1600, their sources of patterns, especially 
>BL ones, are severely limited (2 published books as far as I know, 
>and there are many patterns in both which had not yet been re-done 
>for modern consumption). But, how big is the cross-over between 
>"straight" lacemakers and SCA ones? Are there any SCA lacemakers who 
>also belong to IOLI? Would they be interested in having more 
>patterns which are "in period" both visually *and* technically?
>
>Let me know.
>
>--
>Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/
>Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland)
>
>
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[lace] Le Pompe patterns, shorter

[Tamara P Duvall]

To go back to Orla's original posting:

It looks like it's about 20 pairs of bobbins and is made of Kreinik 
cord

- which has become my favorite thing to use for metallics.  The biggest
pain for it is that there are sewings all over the place.  Every
vertical line in the footside requres sewings as does the triple loop
at the top.


I was *so* disturbed by Orla's claim of the multitude of sewings, that 
I fired up my pillow today and started working on that pattern (Le 
Pompe, Book one, p.17, B)  :)  "About 20 pairs" is correct; by my 
reckoning, you need either 18 or 21 (I'm using the 21 version). I 
didn't make a separate pricking; I'm using the woodcut "as is", same as 
Orla. And I'm using Kreinik cord (though in copper; didn't have any 
gold on hand) -- again, same as Orla. Which meant that, in order to fit 
the thread (and keep the lace looking as robust as it had been in 
15hundreds), I had to photocopy the woodcut in the Levey/Payne Le Pompe 
at 65%.


My early experience -- between a quarter and a third of the first 
repeat -- confirms my preconceived theory: there are no sewings at all 
in that pattern.


Personally, I hate metallic thread-- it combines all the faults of 
natural fiber and wire, without having any overwhelming compensation 
for the faults :) The next sample will be both larger and made in 
linen. I doubt a wire sample will follow -- this is not my favourite Le 
Pompe pattern :)


So far, all the effort has been directed at scratching my personal 
curiosity itch -- can I make this without any sewings at all, the way I 
*think* it must have been made in 1550?But, a BL Editor for the IOLI 
Bulletin cannot afford too many moments of *idle* curiosity; I'd like 
to publish the pattern (pricking, diagrams) in the Bulletin eventually. 
And, maybe, some other 16th c repros as well.


So, my question is this:
How much interest is there, *among the IOLI members*, in reproductions 
of old plaited laces (in thread or in wire or both)? I know 
SCA-affiliated lacemakers might be interested, because, with their 
cut-off date being 1600, their sources of patterns, especially BL ones, 
are severely limited (2 published books as far as I know, and there are 
many patterns in both which had not yet been re-done for modern 
consumption). But, how big is the cross-over between "straight" 
lacemakers and SCA ones? Are there any SCA lacemakers who also belong 
to IOLI? Would they be interested in having more patterns which are "in 
period" both visually *and* technically?


Let me know.

--
Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/
Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland)
 
 


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[lace] Le Pompe patterns, part 1, long

[Tamara P Duvall]

On Jan 28, 2007, at 22:22, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Orla) wrote:


Yep, it came from Le Pompe (pattern B on page 17).


That's Le Pompe Book I, BTW, for those who have the Levey/Payne version 
of Le Pompe that Jeri wrote about. While Levey/Payne reproduced all the 
woodcuts from book I and only "selected pages" from Book II, there's 
page 17 reproduced from both books, and both have more than one pattern 
on that page.


It looks like it's about 20 pairs of bobbins and is made of Kreinik 
cord

- which has become my favorite thing to use for metallics.  The biggest
pain for it is that there are sewings all over the place.  Every
vertical line in the footside requres sewings as does the triple loop
at the top.  I use Bayeux bobbins and can't imagine how anyone would do
this pattern if they were using midlands.


Midlands wouldn't have been "in period" anyway; they're post-1600. But 
I'm troubled by your statement that "there are sewings all over the 
place". There *shouldn't be any* -- this is a plaited lace, not a tape 
one. I'm not a member of SCA myself, so I don't know how insistent the 
Society is on the accuracy and how much leeway is permitted, but 
plaited laces made before 1600 had  few -- *if any* -- sewings; all the 
joins were achieved by skillful manipulation of the bobbins themselves.


I know there are no instructions for that pattern in the book and, 
anyway, you make your lace "the old-fashioned way"--interpreting *a 
pricking* the best you can (that info came in from private e-mail 
exchange, in case anyone's wondering). But most of those early 
lacemakers had formal training (the author of the Neuw Modelbuch speaks 
of having students, for example, though the unknown author of Le Pompe 
dedicates his work to "virtuous ladies", thus suggesting dilletantes), 
so their guesses weren't likely to be wild; they were informed. And 
there was a certain "canon" of techniques on which the lacemakers based 
their interpretations.


Levey/Payne interpretation of Le Pompe patterns is wonderful, because 
it began to unlock some of the mysteries of the earliest laces for us. 
But their interpretation, by necessity, based their conclusions on a 
different (more modern) set of techniques -- the ones *they* were 
familiar with. Burkhard's interpretation of the Neuw Modelbuch, though 
published only 3yrs later, seems to guess at the 500yr-old realities 
much better.


And the work continues, in several countries.

In US, an Arachnean, Devon Thein, volunteers for the Metropolitan 
Museum of Art in NYC. Which not only has a very large collection of 
lace, but also one of those techno-wonders -- the awesome microscope. 
One can view laces, stitch-by-stitch, and see how they're constructed, 
without having to take them apart. And one can capture each bit in a 
photo, for further study and possible reproduction. Which is more 
likely to be really accurate, since it draws on more than just the 
study of the original woodcuts; it considers actual laces made in the 
same period (if not, necessarily, on the same patterns), gaining 
insight into the techniques used at the time.


--
Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/
Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland)

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[lace] Lacemaker Dolls

[Elizabeth Ligeti]

Those dolls are Gorgeous, Lori.  Thank you for the link to view them.
Regards from Liz in rather warm & sunny Melbourne, Oz.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[lace] Lace Penfriends

[karenb]

Hiya 

My name is Karen, I am a Lacemaker in Australia looking to correspond with 
Lacemakers all over the web.  I am 40yrs of age, have been living in Australia 
for most of my life.  I was born in Essex, England.  

I have been making Lace for about 7yrs now.  Still class myself as a Novice.  I 
mainly make Torchan Lace, but also enjoy Braid.  One day I would also like to 
try Bedforshire Lace.  

I would like to hear from any ladies whom wish to either correspond by email or 
just the old fashioned letter writing.

I look forward to any replys.

Take care until then

Regards Karen 

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[lace] American Healthcare

[Janice Blair]

Profuse apologies.  I obviously meant to send that email to lace chat.
Unfortunately I get the digest which hasn't arrived with my posting, and did
not realise my mistake until I heard from a friend.
Janice
 
Janice Blair
Crystal Lake, 50 miles northwest of Chicago, Illinois, USA
http://jblace.wordpress.com/
http://www.lacemakersofillinois.org/

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[lace] RE: Mary Queen of Scots book

[Ian & Chelle Long]

Hi Sue and all,

Just coming out of longtime lurkdom re this...

-Original Message-
<

Re: [lace] Mary Queen of Scots

[Jeriames]

Dear Sue, Surprise!  It was from me.  I sent the first reply only to 
you..This time, I'll send to the list -- so you can look up if you lose it 
again.  
Apologies to those not interested.  Jeri Ames

In a message dated 1/29/07 11:25:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> Dear Spiders
> On the 18th of Jan I sent a missive about the Norfolk Lacemakers Lace
> Day someone very kindly replied with a book title about Mary Queen of
> Scots that she recommended I read prior to the lace day, I am sorry to
> say that I lost that information and have spent an hour looking through
> the archives without success, So, could the person who sent the
> information kindly re-send.  I would be grateful.
> 
> Sue M Harvey
> Norfolk UK
> 
In a message dated 1/18/07 9:16:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> The
> speaker is Sylvia Everitt "The Embroideries of Mary Queen of Scots".  We
> usually enjoy a lovely day.
> -
Dear Sue,

Good preparation would be a reading of Margaret Swain's "The Needlework of 
Mary Queen of Scots", Van Nostrand Reinhold 1973.  Have seen it in paperback, 
which would have been a later edition.  It is a classic.

Another classic by Swain, which has been discussed on Arachne at length in 
the past, is "The Flowerers - The Story of Ayrshire Needlework", published in 
1955.  I had to pay $300 for this rare book.

I met Swain back in the 1980's (I think) when she was quite old, and believe 
she was decorated by the Queen for her expertise i/c/w the history of Scottish 
needlework.  She told us the story of how she suddenly became aware she had 
given away her last copy of "The Flowerers".  To get a copy, she attended the 
funeral of a woman she knew had one - and asked for the book from the deceased 
woman's husband!  The way she told it was much funnier than what I have 
written.

There are several other books by her.  She was a charming woman.  Well loved.

Jeri Ames in Maine USA
Lace and Embroidery Resource Center

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[lace] Radical Lace and Subversive Knitting

[Dmt11home]

Radical Lace and Subversive Knitting was reviewed by the New  York Times and 
available here.   _http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/27/arts/design/27lace.html_ 
(http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/27/arts/design/27lace.html)  My  own review 
will be appearing in the IOLI Bulletin.
 
Also on the same page and worth looking at was 
_http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/27/arts/design/27knit.html_ 
(http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/27/arts/design/27knit.html)  in  which an 
organization is 
referred to as the Church of Craft. While at the Public  Knitting Table at 
Radical 
Lace (I felt the sudden urge to knit)  some  women came in who were very much 
into the knitting movement. They seemed to know  each other from the Church of 
Craft, apparently a place where you can just go to  do crafts. These were 
youngish women who tended to have very beautifully dyed  hair, one of them in a 
multitude of colors. I think that it might we well worth  seeking out this 
group and going to do crafts with them, thus introducing them  to certain 
crafts 
that shall remain nameless but are in danger of dying  out.
 
Devon

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Re: [lace] Replacement pillow blocks

[Sue Babbs]

Try SMP lace:
http://www.smplace.co.uk/sfr_cat.htm

Sue
- Original Message - 
From: "beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 10:41 AM
Subject: [lace] Replacement pillow blocks


Does anyone know of a UK supplier who sells five-and-a-half inch 
polystyrene
or ethafoam blocks? 


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[lace] Pattern Raffle

[beth]

Searching through my files for the pattern I want to do next (didn't find it) 
I discovered two copies of the same pattern, bought on different occasions.

I'm far too much of a butterfly ever to do the same pattern twice, so I think 
it's time for a raffle.

It's a bucks point pattern, Irene Tomlinson's Hexagonal Edging no. 1, and the 
pack consists of the pricking (on glazed card), picture of the lace and 
working diagram.

Anyone who thinks they'd like it, email me by midnight (GMT) on Sunday 11th 
February and I'll draw the winner on Monday 12th.

Beth

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Re: [lace] Mary Queen of Scots

[Shere'e]

I do not know if this is the one that was recommended to you but I
really love the one written by Antonia Frasier. It is simply called
Mary, Queen of Scots. I believe that I have a few extra copies around
the house. If you would like a copy  let me know
with your address and I will post one off to you.

I have/had multiple copies of this book as I was the director for an
acting group doing the court of Mary, QOS at a local Ren Faire and
found a bunch of them at a local library tag sale.

Shere'e
Seattle, WA USA



On 1/29/07, Sue <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Dear Spiders
On the 18th of Jan I sent a missive about the Norfolk Lacemakers Lace
Day someone very kindly replied with a book title about Mary Queen of
Scots that she recommended I read prior to the lace day, I am sorry to
say that I lost that information and have spent an hour looking through
the archives without success, So, could the person who sent the
information kindly re-send.  I would be grateful.

Sue M Harvey
Norfolk UK

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[lace] Replacement pillow blocks

[beth]

Hello, everyone

Does anyone know of a UK supplier who sells five-and-a-half inch polystyrene 
or ethafoam blocks?

The original polystyrene ones on my block pillow have now worn out in the 
centres (I've turned them round frequently to even the wear out, and turned 
them over regularly, but the middles still get the most wear and now feel 
very spongy).

I've had the pillow more than 20 years, and haven't a clue who I originally 
bought it from. A few years ago (probably about ten years!?) we once had a 
supplier come to North West Lacemakers who listed all sorts of different size 
replacement blocks in their catalogue, but I've long since forgotten their 
name too. All I can remember is that it wasn't one of our regular suppliers.

Anyone seen anything similar more recently? (I didn't get to the NEC last 
December, so haven't got any up-to-date catalogues to guide me, and don't 
particularly want to wait until this December to go shopping in person before 
putting that particular pillow into use again).

Beth
in Cheshire, England

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[lace] Mary Queen of Scots

[Sue]

Dear Spiders
On the 18th of Jan I sent a missive about the Norfolk Lacemakers Lace
Day someone very kindly replied with a book title about Mary Queen of
Scots that she recommended I read prior to the lace day, I am sorry to
say that I lost that information and have spent an hour looking through
the archives without success, So, could the person who sent the
information kindly re-send.  I would be grateful.
 
Sue M Harvey
Norfolk UK

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RE: [lace] Other lace on YouTube - SCA Lace from Le Pompe

[lists]

Why thank you.  I try to keep up with the list every so often but you
know how e-mail goes, there's always too much to read.  

When I finally get the Gold lace off my pillow I'm going to do an edging
for a coif since I have a goal of a good Flemish outfit by Pennsic.  I
haven't decided which pattern to use yet (I also have Fascinating
Bobbin Lace to play with), but I'll try to post it when I do.  In the
meantime I have two more hankies posted here
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?username=orlaith.  There are a
couple more that I've done but one I don't have pictures of and the
other one isn't online anywhere.  Yes, for those who are counting, this
means that I'm working on my fifth Queen's hankie.

I should probably explain the whole "Queen's Hankie" thing.  In Atlantia
(the Mid Atlantic region of the SCA for lack of a better description)
every Queen is given a handmade lace hankie, which means someone in the
lace guild is doing one about every six months.  The current one is
actually going to someone in another Kingdom who used to be in
Atlantia.  After it's finished I'm going to actually try to make some
lace for myself.

So, a question for you?  What is the Lace and Embroidery Resource
Center?

Orla

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Re: [lace] Other lace on YouTube - SCA Lace from Le Pompe

[Jeriames]

Dear Orla,

Your lace is lovely.  Please don't go back to lurking.

Probably I write for all when I say that we would like to see more laces from 
SCA members!

Newbies:  The "Le Pompe, 1599 --- Patterns for Venetian Bobbin Lace"  book 
may be of interest, especially if you have nothing from this period.  Published 
by Ruth Bean (England) in 1983, ISBN 0-903585-16-2, Paperback, 128 pages.  
This is a reproduction of probably the earliest known set of bobbin lace 
patterns.The modern authors - who provided a technical section and written 
instructions, diagrams, prickings and photographs of finished laces, are 
Santina 
Levey and Patricia Payne.  

Jeri Ames in Maine USA
Lace and Embroidery Resource Center
---
In a message dated 1/28/07 10:23:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> Yep, it came from Le Pompe (pattern B on page 17).  I actually started
> this piece with the intention of it being done by last Pennsic.  It
> didn't happen and is fact still on my bolster since I took time off to
> make 3 shawls and 3 afghans for christmas and this lace
> (http://pics.livejournal.com/orlacarey/pic/0005hsbr/g31) for a wedding
> gift.  
> 
> It looks like it's about 20 pairs of bobbins and is made of Kreinik cord
> - which has become my favorite thing to use for metallics.  The biggest
> pain for it is that there are sewings all over the place.  Every
> vertical line in the footside requres sewings as does the triple loop
> at the top.  I use Bayeux bobbins and can't imagine how anyone would do
> this pattern if they were using midlands.  Actual pictures of the lace
> are here: 
> http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=3987376&uid=614615.
> 
> BTW, I've come to the painful conclusion that rather than keeping the
> 2nd copy of Le Pompe that I have for the "someday really promising
> student", I'm going to be selling it on Ebay soon.  So if you need a
> copy I'd keep an eye out.  I have never sold anything on Ebay before
> but I'm hoping to have it listed in a six day auction this week.
> 
> Orla
> Barony of Storvik, Kingdom of Atlantia (Metro Washington DC area)
> OrlaCarey on Livejournal 
> 

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