Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
Mike Noyes wrote: You needn't do that. I think Ray was only suggesting a new thread for the package format discussion. As always, everyone's opinion is valuable. This is how we reach consensus. Mike, I'm not sure that I had anything valuable to say in the first place. I should have taken a deep breath and counted to 10 before jumping into this discussion. -Tom -- Tom Eastep\ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 16:59, Ray Olszewski wrote: > At 02:49 PM 7/3/2004 -0700, Mike Noyes wrote: > > Is it a download from pserver using viewcvs? Ray, It is. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/leaf/devel/kapeka/dachstein_glibc-2.1.3 ViewCVS http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/leaf/devel/kapeka/dachstein_glibc-2.1.3/ See Re: [leaf-devel] SF.net Tip of the Week http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg06351.html > This may not even involve a Sourceforge CVS ... the frames piece obscures > that ... recall that my original comment urged us to be ready to deal with > download problems both from our own site and important links, and I count > the "Developer Content" trees as important. > > Once again, I meant this only as an example of what we have to be ready to > correct if non-IE Windows users report problems (if we impose a "no IE" rule). Understood. As I said before, I'm not sure it's even a good idea. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 14:27, Tom Eastep wrote: > Ray Olszewski wrote: > > It is important, I think, to keep these two sets of issues distinct, not > > to bounce from one to the other arbitrarily. > > You're right Ray -- I'll go back in my cave. Tom, You needn't do that. I think Ray was only suggesting a new thread for the package format discussion. As always, everyone's opinion is valuable. This is how we reach consensus. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
At 02:49 PM 7/3/2004 -0700, Mike Noyes wrote: On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 14:08, Ray Olszewski wrote: > The problem we do seem to have is with the .iso extension -- see > my message yesterday. > > So Mike should fix the .iso mime-type problem as part of any > away-with-IE policy. Ray, What is the url for the .iso that isn't handled properly? Is it a download from pserver using viewcvs? Note: the mime type issue was corrected quite a while ago for files contained in the SF FRS. I don't know the actual URL, because it seems to arrive in a frame. Start at http://leaf.sourceforge.net/devel/kapeka/ and follow the path to "Download Dachstein CD", then "dachstein-1.0.2.1-glibc-2.1.3.iso", then the first "download" choice dieplayed in the CVS page that gets displayed. (The URL shown does not change during this sequence, so I assume I'm seeing a page with frames.) Using Netscape 7.1 on WIn2K, this choice delivers jabberwocky. This may not even involve a Sourceforge CVS ... the frames piece obscures that ... recall that my original comment urged us to be ready to deal with download problems both from our own site and important links, and I count the "Developer Content" trees as important. Once again, I meant this only as an example of what we have to be ready to correct if non-IE Windows users report problems (if we impose a "no IE" rule). --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 14:08, Ray Olszewski wrote: > The problem we do seem to have is with the .iso extension -- see > my message yesterday. > > So Mike should fix the .iso mime-type problem as part of any > away-with-IE policy. Ray, What is the url for the .iso that isn't handled properly? Is it a download from pserver using viewcvs? Note: the mime type issue was corrected quite a while ago for files contained in the SF FRS. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
Ray Olszewski wrote: It is important, I think, to keep these two sets of issues distinct, not to bounce from one to the other arbitrarily. You're right Ray -- I'll go back in my cave. -Tom -- Tom Eastep\ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
At 01:31 PM 7/3/2004 -0700, Tom Eastep wrote: K.-P. Kirchdörfer wrote: I understand - but changing the name from lrp to tgz is a _lot_of work - rewriting the packaging tools (lrpkg), rewriting the docs, reworking the webpages, recompile every package, maybe I forgot something - you see this is error-prone. And a renaming wouldn't help us to get more developers to solve the remaining issues (providing the files in /var/lib/lrpkg, strip down the packages to the needed stuff (no man pages etc.), stripping the binaries and on and on. I'm sure you're right right that we missed the opportunity to make this change throughout Bering but the problem we're discussing is download. Can't people rename files from mummble.tgz to mumble.lrp after they have download them? Tom PS -- if your product is written in Bourne Shell, you have to be LEAF-aware on almost every line of code you write. Tom -- I'm afraid you missed the point of my original messages. The download system handles .lrp just fine, treating it as a binary (application-octet) mime type. I tested this yesterday using Netscape on Windows. The problem we do seem to have is with the .iso extension -- see my message yesterday. And yes, of course people *can* deal with this sort of problem by renaming after they download. But "can" != "should", and in my opinion it is bad practice to impose one more pointless chore on beginners who are already going to struggle a bit to get up to speed on LEAF. If we chose to suggest, or insist, that Windows downloaders avoid IE, then we need to correct any problems they encounter with downloads, not hand them extra chores. So Mike should fix the .iso mime-type problem as part of any away-with-IE policy. I didn't pursue any of this in reply to your prior message, because your prior message was clearly NOT about download issues. You wrote about substantive problems that developers face adapting the CONTENTS of their packages to LEAF. That is in no way a download issue, and K-P responded to the issues you raised in that context. Your PS above continues that separate disussion ... which I will leave to you and him (or others) to sort out. It is important, I think, to keep these two sets of issues distinct, not to bounce from one to the other arbitrarily. --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
K.-P. Kirchdörfer wrote: I understand - but changing the name from lrp to tgz is a _lot_of work - rewriting the packaging tools (lrpkg), rewriting the docs, reworking the webpages, recompile every package, maybe I forgot something - you see this is error-prone. And a renaming wouldn't help us to get more developers to solve the remaining issues (providing the files in /var/lib/lrpkg, strip down the packages to the needed stuff (no man pages etc.), stripping the binaries and on and on. I'm sure you're right right that we missed the opportunity to make this change throughout Bering but the problem we're discussing is download. Can't people rename files from mummble.tgz to mumble.lrp after they have download them? -Tom PS -- if your product is written in Bourne Shell, you have to be LEAF-aware on almost every line of code you write. -- Tom Eastep\ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
Am Samstag, 3. Juli 2004 04:57 schrieb Tom Eastep: > Ray Olszewski wrote: > > At 06:58 PM 7/2/2004 -0700, Tom Eastep wrote: > > > > > > The .lrp extension isn't the problem. It requires only a 1-line addition > > to an Apache config file. No big deal to do, and we get the same "order > > of magnitude" improvement. > > Ray, it is the dozens of 1-line differences that are involved in trying > to make and support a LEAF-compatible package that makes it very rare > for a product developer like me to supply native LEAF packages. Tom, I understand - but changing the name from lrp to tgz is a _lot_of work - rewriting the packaging tools (lrpkg), rewriting the docs, reworking the webpages, recompile every package, maybe I forgot something - you see this is error-prone. And a renaming wouldn't help us to get more developers to solve the remaining issues (providing the files in /var/lib/lrpkg, strip down the packages to the needed stuff (no man pages etc.), stripping the binaries and on and on. You are right, it's a summary of all the one-liners, but I think it's nearly the same as with the most distro's - some require .deb, some rpm; some has ipv6 as standard (Suse 9.1), others not... For every developer, who seriously wants to support LEAF, I suggest to have a look at buildtool/buildpacket http://leaf.sourceforge.net/doc/guide/buc-buildtool.html http://leaf.sourceforge.net/doc/guide/bucd-buildpacket.html As a non-programmer I needed a few days and five packages to get used to it, I'm now able to work out an buildtool setup in two hours, including building a package out of the compiled stuff - later updates are done in less than five minutes - respecting "the dozens of 1-line differences". Only drawback at the time is that both packages are build with Bering-uClibc in mind, but they are available in cvs and if someone is willing to add support for Bering or to fork out a Bering-orientied setup, feel free to do so. IMHO, the user-base of LEAF is too small to attract developers to support lrp/tgz as we need it (Tom, you are an exception and a big thank you for your support!) - and possibly lack of information. kp --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
Ray Olszewski wrote: At 06:58 PM 7/2/2004 -0700, Tom Eastep wrote: The .lrp extension isn't the problem. It requires only a 1-line addition to an Apache config file. No big deal to do, and we get the same "order of magnitude" improvement. Ray, it is the dozens of 1-line differences that are involved in trying to make and support a LEAF-compatible package that makes it very rare for a product developer like me to supply native LEAF packages. -Tom -- Tom Eastep\ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
At 06:58 PM 7/2/2004 -0700, Tom Eastep wrote: [...] If we would just admit that .lrp files are nothing more than stylized gzip-compressed tar files and change their extension to .tgz, we wouldn't have this problem. If you are referring to the text/binary problem I raised, this is not true. It applies to any idiosyncratic extension, since most Web servers treat unknown extensions as type text. My point is that under the covers, a .lrp archive is really a .tgz and that the .tgz extension is orders of magnitude more common than .lrp. So by switching the extension from .lrp to .tgz, you reduce the problem by a similar order of magnitude. Out of the box, Apache is configured with .tgz as a known extension -- not so with .lrp. I understood that the first time, Tom. I'm trying to say that I disagree with it. The .lrp extension isn't the problem. It requires only a 1-line addition to an Apache config file. No big deal to do, and we get the same "order of magnitude" improvement. LEAF uses the .lrp extension a lot, and has for a long time, so it's worth making a modest effort to let it work for downloads ... that's a lot less work than rewriting the package installer, I'd think. And we seem to have done so; I never have a problem with an .lrp package from LEAF. The problem arises when various LEAF developers individually coin their own idiosyncratic extensions and, since they do their downloads using Linux, don't notice that they've made life hard for Windows users (except the ones who use IE, of course). Note that in my prior message, I listed an enormous number of oddball extensions that Sourceforge gets right, and only one -- .iso -- that it (or possibly a non-Sourceforge site that we're linking to; it was hard to tell) handled wrong. Since .iso is a meaningful extension to the Linux (and I think to the Windows) community, we shouldn't deal with this problem by (for example) forcing all .iso files to be renamed .iso.bin. We should fix the problem on the server. --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
Ray Olszewski wrote: At 04:50 PM 7/2/2004 -0700, Tom Eastep wrote: Mike Noyes wrote: On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 11:13, Ray Olszewski wrote: This gets to the heart of the matter, and is the main reason I asked. I'm not sure that we should do anything. However, I'd be disappointed if a person using a leaf branch gets compromised because of IE problems. You probably know who I think would mistakenly get blamed. If we would just admit that .lrp files are nothing more than stylized gzip-compressed tar files and change their extension to .tgz, we wouldn't have this problem. If you are referring to the text/binary problem I raised, this is not true. It applies to any idiosyncratic extension, since most Web servers treat unknown extensions as type text. My point is that under the covers, a .lrp archive is really a .tgz and that the .tgz extension is orders of magnitude more common than .lrp. So by switching the extension from .lrp to .tgz, you reduce the problem by a similar order of magnitude. Out of the box, Apache is configured with .tgz as a known extension -- not so with .lrp. -Tom -- Tom Eastep\ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
At 04:50 PM 7/2/2004 -0700, Tom Eastep wrote: Mike Noyes wrote: On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 11:13, Ray Olszewski wrote: This gets to the heart of the matter, and is the main reason I asked. I'm not sure that we should do anything. However, I'd be disappointed if a person using a leaf branch gets compromised because of IE problems. You probably know who I think would mistakenly get blamed. If we would just admit that .lrp files are nothing more than stylized gzip-compressed tar files and change their extension to .tgz, we wouldn't have this problem. If you are referring to the text/binary problem I raised, this is not true. It applies to any idiosyncratic extension, since most Web servers treat unknown extensions as type text. Linux sites are often quite bad about this -- it's not at all unusual for me to have to switch over to wget on a Linux host to download an executable, if I'm following my normal everyday practice of using Netscape on Win2K. Not all Web servers even know what .tgz is (though I'm sure that Sourceforge does), and I've seen some that don't do .bin right. The .iso extension for CD images, and .img for (usually) floppy images, can be problems too. I think the cause is that Linux sites are usually run by people who use Linux (duh), and so they don't have to do any conversion of text files, so miss the problem. There's really no getting around it that the Web server has to get it right ... and ideally (at least in my view), it should treat unknown extensions as binary files, not text files ... but I rarely see that approach implemented. Though I've just now been trying some of the Developer Content directories for LEAF ... the place where the oddball extensions tend to turn up ... and Sourceforge is treating a pretty wide range of stuff as binary -- examples are lrp, md5, md, cfg, config, patch, c, log, and no extension at all -- so they may do it this way. But it tries to send a .iso file (in cvs accessed through K.-P. Kirchdörfer's area) as text ... so go figure. --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 16:50, Tom Eastep wrote: > Mike Noyes wrote: > > On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 11:13, Ray Olszewski wrote: > > > Aside from some > > > minor cosmetic issues, the main thing here is to make sure we > > > consistently use file extensions for binaries that the Web server > > > identifies as a mime-type that will bring up the SAVE dialog, NOT one > > > that will treat is a text download and thus turn it into jabberwocky. > > Mime type for .lrp and other binary types can be defined with .htaccess. > > This is the method we use currently. > > If we would just admit that .lrp files are nothing more than stylized > gzip-compressed tar files and change their extension to .tgz, we > wouldn't have this problem. Tom, You're correct. I have no objection to changing the .lrp extension. Of course your suggestion of .tgz is the most compatible. I've considered .ltz in the past (mimicking the Midori package .mlz naming), but this has the same mime issues as .lrp. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
Mike Noyes wrote: On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 11:13, Ray Olszewski wrote: This gets to the heart of the matter, and is the main reason I asked. I'm not sure that we should do anything. However, I'd be disappointed if a person using a leaf branch gets compromised because of IE problems. You probably know who I think would mistakenly get blamed. If we would just admit that .lrp files are nothing more than stylized gzip-compressed tar files and change their extension to .tgz, we wouldn't have this problem. -Tom -- Tom Eastep\ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 11:13, Ray Olszewski wrote: > We should make sure that if we instruct (advise? compel? see below) > people to use a non-IE browser, LEAF's own Website, and major links > like the one to Charles' site, works properly with it. Aside from some > minor cosmetic issues, the main thing here is to make sure we > consistently use file extensions for binaries that the Web server > identifies as a mime-type that will bring up the SAVE dialog, NOT one > that will treat is a text download and thus turn it into jabberwocky. Ray, Thanks for the feedback. Mime type for .lrp and other binary types can be defined with .htaccess. This is the method we use currently. > The bottom line question, though, is whether this is a good idea or > not. I think that depends on the implementation. I would encourage you > to consider a method that ADVISES IE users of the problem, but not one > that compels them to change browsers in order to get LEAF. Me, I like > advice, but I hate orders ... "obey" is a 4-letter word ... and I > suspect a lot of our user base is the same way. This gets to the heart of the matter, and is the main reason I asked. I'm not sure that we should do anything. However, I'd be disappointed if a person using a leaf branch gets compromised because of IE problems. You probably know who I think would mistakenly get blamed. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website & IE
At 09:18 AM 7/2/2004 -0700, Mike Noyes wrote: Everyone, What does everyone think of our new website redirecting all IE users to a firefox download? I'm asking about this because of the recent IE security problems. Homelandd Security and CERT are recommending alternate browsers for current IE users. It would be a drastic step, but we are a security conscious community. An example of the elseif redirect is in phpwebsite-comm cvs. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/phpwebsite-comm/themes/debug/ New Website Status Update: I hope to have a new preview ready early next week. I apologize for the delay. As a general matter, there is some attractiveness to your idea. Even though we are a Linux project, the reality is that a lot of our users come from a Windows background (for that matter, I use a Win2K workstation myself, and I've run Linux systems since 1992). And vulnerable Windows systems on the Internet hurt all of us, not just their own users. We should make sure that if we instruct (advise? compel? see below) people to use a non-IE browser, LEAF's own Website, and major links like the one to Charles' site, works properly with it. Aside from some minor cosmetic issues, the main thing here is to make sure we consistently use file extensions for binaries that the Web server identifies as a mime-type that will bring up the SAVE dialog, NOT one that will treat is a text download and thus turn it into jabberwocky. (This problem, still annoyingly pervasive, is the main reason I even keep a copy of IE on my Win2K system; for better or worse, IE is the only Windows browser I know of that will spot server lies about the mime-type of binaries.) As far as I can tell, our current setup is OK in this respect. But I doubt I was able to hit everything in a quick check, so others should supplement my checking, and/or we should be ready to correct promptly any problems that new users encounter. The bottom line question, though, is whether this is a good idea or not. I think that depends on the implementation. I would encourage you to consider a method that ADVISES IE users of the problem, but not one that compels them to change browsers in order to get LEAF. Me, I like advice, but I hate orders ... "obey" is a 4-letter word ... and I suspect a lot of our user base is the same way. --- This SF.Net email sponsored by Black Hat Briefings & Training. Attend Black Hat Briefings & Training, Las Vegas July 24-29 - digital self defense, top technical experts, no vendor pitches, unmatched networking opportunities. Visit www.blackhat.com ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website (prof-of-concept)
On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 12:40, Sean Covel wrote: > Epiphany 1.0.7 (and I though I was using FireFox last time I checked) > > XML Parsing Error: not well-formed Location: > http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/bering-uclibc/index.php?module=announce&ANN_user_op=categories Sean, Thanks for reporting this. Many xhtml well-formed issues were addressed in phpWebSite 0.9.3-3. I like to think my debug theme had a small part in that. Anyway, I'll upgrade our site to 0.9.3-3 in the next couple of days and check for this well-formed error again. My debug theme: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/phpwebsite-comm/themes/debug/ http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu/index.php?module=announce&ANN_user_op=view&ANN_id=740 -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Oracle 10g Get certified on the hottest thing ever to hit the market... Oracle 10g. Take an Oracle 10g class now, and we'll give you the exam FREE. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3149&alloc_id=8166&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website (prof-of-concept)
On Thu, 2004-05-27 at 11:50, K.-P. KirchdÃrfer wrote: > Mike I loaded with mozilla - now how to change stylesheets? K.-P., In Mozilla use: View -> Use Style -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Oracle 10g Get certified on the hottest thing ever to hit the market... Oracle 10g. Take an Oracle 10g class now, and we'll give you the exam FREE. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id149&alloc_id66&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website (prof-of-concept)
Mike, Epiphany 1.0.7 (and I though I was using FireFox last time I checked) XML Parsing Error: not well-formed Location: http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/bering-uclibc/index.php?module=announce&ANN_user_op=categories&MMN_position=10:10 Line Number 233, Column 166: Categories | Submit News -^ FireFox 0.8 does the same thing. I clicked on uClibC in the header, clicked on the "new test" announcement on the right, then clicked on announcements on the left... Sean Mike Noyes wrote: Everyone, I added alternate stylesheet support for browsers that can handle pages served as application/xhtml+xml (mozilla, firefox, and maybe opera). http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/ Note: Blue and Orange are available, but the sylesheets are only prof-of-concept. I'm still figuring out the ramifications of the stylesheet split (persistent, preferred, and alternate) necessary with this change. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Oracle 10g Get certified on the hottest thing ever to hit the market... Oracle 10g. Take an Oracle 10g class now, and we'll give you the exam FREE. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3149&alloc_id=8166&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website (prof-of-concept)
Am Mittwoch, 26. Mai 2004 18:19 schrieb Mike Noyes: > Everyone, > I added alternate stylesheet support for browsers that can handle pages > served as application/xhtml+xml (mozilla, firefox, and maybe opera). > > http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/ > > Note: Blue and Orange are available, but the sylesheets are only > prof-of-concept. I'm still figuring out the ramifications of the > stylesheet split (persistent, preferred, and alternate) > necessary with this change. Mike I loaded with mozilla - now how to change stylesheets? kp --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: Oracle 10g Get certified on the hottest thing ever to hit the market... Oracle 10g. Take an Oracle 10g class now, and we'll give you the exam FREE. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3149&alloc_id=8166&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 14:23, Larry Platzek wrote: > On Mon, 17 May 2004, Mike Noyes wrote: > > Thanks for the feedback. What url was the Floppy Image section at? > http://leaf.steinkueler.net/bering-uclibc/ > The Floppy Image > you will see the changelog section > > Extra Packages is too far (you missed the changelog Section). Larry, Thanks for the information. Apparently, I forgot to update the Bering uClibc home page after I created the others. I'll correct this problem. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Mon, 17 May 2004, Mike Noyes wrote: > Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:41:56 -0700 > From: Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: leaf-devel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [leaf-devel] New Website > > On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 08:18, Larry Platzek wrote: > > Mike was looking at //leaf.steinkueler.net/bering-uclibc/ > > The Floppy Image section and clicked on "changelog section" > > link and it took me to //leaf.steinkueler.net/ a minor whoops. > > Larry, > Thanks for the feedback. What url was the Floppy Image section at? > > -- Mike http://leaf.steinkueler.net/bering-uclibc/ The Floppy Image you will see the changelog section Extra Packages is too far (you missed the changelog Section). Larry Platzek [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 10:43, Martin Hejl wrote:
> Mike Noyes wrote:
> > I'll work on these two suggestions. I guess the information wasn't as
> > redundant as I first though.
>
> Just to throw in my two cents - I agree that it was/is redundant. But I
> also feel that it is not obvious to the casual observer how to get to a
> specific branch without that redundancy.
> If we can make it easier for users to find the information they're
> looking for, I'd say it's very well worth the redundancy.
>
> It's obviously not a big deal for somebody who knows the page, but I'd
> say we should make it as easy as possible for new users to find the
> relevant information (well, either that, or be prepared to answer tons
> of "help, I can't find the packages page anymore" questions).
Martin,
Thank you for the feedback. I'm convinced. I'll rework the Derivation
page back into something that resembles our current Releases/Branches
page.
Everyone,
Any help with navbar readability is welcome. Here is the css it uses:
.navbar, .navbar a:link, .navbar a:visited {
font-size: .9em;
font-variant: small-caps;
font-weight: bold;
text-align: center;
color: #cc;
background-color: #33;
padding: .3em 0em .3em 0em;
}
--
Mike Noyes
http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/
SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs
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Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 11:20, Tom Eastep wrote: > When you download Mozilla (or Firefox), be sure to download the > GTK2/Xft version; with the "standard" version, the fonts suck... Everyone, If you're using WinXP, make sure you turn ClearType on. http://www.microsoft.com/typography/cleartype/cleartypeactivate.htm -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
Hi Mike, Mike Noyes wrote: I'll work on these two suggestions. I guess the information wasn't as redundant as I first though. Just to throw in my two cents - I agree that it was/is redundant. But I also feel that it is not obvious to the casual observer how to get to a specific branch without that redundancy. If we can make it easier for users to find the information they're looking for, I'd say it's very well worth the redundancy. It's obviously not a big deal for somebody who knows the page, but I'd say we should make it as easy as possible for new users to find the relevant information (well, either that, or be prepared to answer tons of "help, I can't find the packages page anymore" questions). Martin --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 08:18, Larry Platzek wrote: > Mike was looking at //leaf.steinkueler.net/bering-uclibc/ > The Floppy Image section and clicked on "changelog section" > link and it took me to //leaf.steinkueler.net/ a minor whoops. Larry, Thanks for the feedback. What url was the Floppy Image section at? -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 04:26, Charles Steinkuehler wrote: > Mike Noyes wrote: > > The readability of the nav bar may be related to the small caps, and > > fonts you have installed. Do you have the Bitstream Vera fonts > > installed? > > The larger size is readable for me (Mozilla 1.6 on 'doze), but the > darker colors make the nav-bar seem 'disconnected' from the actual > website, especially on the pages that still have the smaller text. Charles, Thanks for the feedback. :-) I'll work on the navbar readability. However, I think people are misunderstanding the purpose of the navbar. In essence we now have seven websites. They share common code and a database, but everything else is separate. I created the navbar to allow moving from one website to another and back again. This is one of the reasons I used different colors for the navbar. The navbar is separate from the branch content. Everyone, If we use the Hub main menu Releases/Branches page exclusively, how will we navigate to one of the other branch sites within our website? Menus are unique to each branch (content is stored in the database using a table prefix). > I also think the releases/branches page (and main-menu item) should > return. There's too much difference between branches to cover with a > simple nav bar. > > For quick access, I think listing a few of the current popular > distributions on the main page is fine (ie: perhaps a bering, > bering-uClibc, and 'others' link, with others taking you to the releases > page). Charles, I'll work on these two suggestions. I guess the information wasn't as redundant as I first though. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
Mike Noyes wrote: On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 08:47, Tom Eastep wrote: > I changed the font (bold, small caps, and size) and bar size (padding) > in this release. I gather the improvements weren't enough to make the > nav bar stand out for you. Given that it is both dark and tiny, it does not stand out at all. Under Firefox on my 19" monitor, "Bering uClibc" is only about 2/3" wide and is almost unreadable. "Lince" *is* unreadable. Tom, Thanks for the feedback. :-) The readability of the nav bar may be related to the small caps, and fonts you have installed. Do you have the Bitstream Vera fonts installed? The larger size is readable for me (Mozilla 1.6 on 'doze), but the darker colors make the nav-bar seem 'disconnected' from the actual website, especially on the pages that still have the smaller text. I agree with KP that the Releases/Branches menu should return. I'll give this serious consideration. If it returns, the nav bar won't. I've been trying to eliminate redundant information. Everyone, Does anyone think the nav bar is usable? Is it worth working on further, or should I scrap it? Is it good enough to last a few months waiting for phpWebSite 0.9.4 to be released? Note: this theme is only temporary. We'll have a theme contest as soon as phpWebSite 0.9.4 is released. IMHO: If you want a nav-bar, it should pretty much duplicate the content on the main-menu (or perhaps a subset of main-menu entries), and match the style of the rest of the site (ie: currently black text on blue). I also think the releases/branches page (and main-menu item) should return. There's too much difference between branches to cover with a simple nav bar. For quick access, I think listing a few of the current popular distributions on the main page is fine (ie: perhaps a bering, bering-uClibc, and 'others' link, with others taking you to the releases page). -- Charles Steinkuehler [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
Hi Mike, I use Gentoo Linux and Mozilla 1.4 (Gecko/20040206) and It looks fine (in konqueror 3.2.1 too). Regards El Dom 16 May 2004 00:11, Mike Noyes escribió: > Everyone, > A new preview of our website is on-line at: > > http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/ > > Note: I still need to add our announcements, rss feeds, and > developer login information. > > Feedback is appreciated. -- Juan Jesús Prieto - Consultoría TI [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eneotecnologia.com --- fingerprint: BFC2 0370 7708 F800 0BEC 60A4 EC71 4BB1 CC85 99F5 http://pgp.rediris.es:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCC8599F5 --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [leaf-devel] New Website
[snip] > Tom, > Thanks for the feedback. :-) > > The readability of the nav bar may be related to the small caps, and > fonts you have installed. Do you have the Bitstream Vera fonts > installed? > > > I agree with KP that the Releases/Branches menu should return. > > I'll give this serious consideration. If it returns, the nav > bar won't. > I've been trying to eliminate redundant information. Mike, I've only seen the NavBar 'after' reading KP's email saying it is not very visible. > > Everyone, > Does anyone think the nav bar is usable? Is it worth working > on further, > or should I scrap it? Is it good enough to last a few months > waiting for > phpWebSite 0.9.4 to be released? IMHO, it can be scraped. Luis Correia Bering uClibc Team Member PGP Fingerprint: BC44 D7DA 5A17 F92A CA21 9ABE DFF0 3540 2322 21F6 Key Server: http://pgp.mit.edu --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
K.-P., Thank you again for providing additional feedback. I appreciate you taking the time to evaluate my latest work. On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 09:49, K.-P. KirchdÃrfer wrote: > but IMHO developer information should be concentrated in one menu; > currently we have: > > "Development" in main menu > > "Developers" and "cvs repository" in Sourceforge menu. I have no objection to removing the Developers and CVS Repository from the SourceForge menu. > The task manager entry (Sourecforge) points to a currently unused sourceforge > feature. I vote for removing/hiding until it is used. I've always get a bad > impression about a project on sourceforge if the link to "dead sides". This is my fault. Our Tracker feature is used, but not maintained well. This will change when I can devote sufficient time to it. Our project policy documents will be the first step in the process. Look at the to-do list on my developer page: http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/devel/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=51 > On the download page I find GNU Arch repository - "page not found" - > but what's the intention behind? This will link to our local mirror of the wisp-dist gnuarch/tla repository. > About redundancies - I almost agree - but Releases/branches are the > heart of LEAF - having three pointers (menu entry, navigatable > derivation picture and navigation bar) is not a bad idea. For users > who know what they are looking for, a navigation bar is a short path > to the branch they like to access. For new users a menu entry is > helpful - not to mention that the current intro page of > release/branches is missing on new webpage. At least some general > information should be given if we follow a "chaotic evolutionary > development" - the bar won't do. You points cogent. Do you have a markup of the proposed Branches page I could look at? -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id%62&alloc_ida84&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
K.-P. Kirchdörfer wrote: it's readable with Mozilla (anyway my Mozilla fonts are ugly) When you download Mozilla (or Firefox), be sure to download the GTK2/Xft version; with the "standard" version, the fonts suck... -Tom -- Tom Eastep\ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 09:56, K.-P. KirchdÃrfer wrote: > Am Sonntag, 16. Mai 2004 18:39 schrieb Mike Noyes: > > I just increased the size of the nav bar font for our hub site. Please > > let me know if it is acceptable now. > > > > New navbar: http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/ > > Old navbar: http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/bering/ > > Mike - _no_ difference at all - with konqueror browser, kde 3.2.2, Suse > 9.0 standard installation - it's readable with Mozilla (anyway my > Mozilla fonts are ugly) K.-P., I'm using SuSE 9.0 also. Konq has quite a few css problems. For one, it doesn't understand small-caps. I just displays them as caps. I has font size issues also with css. Almost all the font sizes on Konq are displayed wrong. In addition it isn't able to handle pages served as application/xhtml+xml. I gather you don't have gnome installed with kde, otherwise the Bitstream Vera fonts would be available to you. > but do you think a new user will understand? (see my previous mail) I will respond to your other post in a little while. > And pls don't ask for fonts - a website should be > readable/understandable for every browser. One of these fonts should be available on every platform, and they are metric equivalents to each other. The only exception is the generic font used as a last resort. CSS: http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/themes/leaf/style.css font-family: "Bitstream Vera Serif", Thorndale, "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-family: "Bitstream Vera Sans", Albany, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-family: "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono", Cumberland, "Courier New", Courier, monospace; -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id%62&alloc_ida84&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
Am Sonntag, 16. Mai 2004 18:39 schrieb Mike Noyes: > On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 09:21, Mike Noyes wrote: > > The readability of the nav bar may be related to the small caps, and > > fonts you have installed. Do you have the Bitstream Vera fonts > > installed? > > K. P. & Tom, > I just increased the size of the nav bar font for our hub site. Please > let me know if it is acceptable now. > > New navbar: http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/ > Old navbar: http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/bering/ Mike - _no_ difference at all - with konqueror browser, kde 3.2.2, Suse 9.0 standard installation - it's readable with Mozilla (anyway my Mozilla fonts are ugly) - but do you think a new user will understand? (see my previous mail) And pls don't ask for fonts - a website should be readable/understandable for every browser. kp --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
Am Sonntag, 16. Mai 2004 16:13 schrieb Mike Noyes: > > 3) Maybe we should have a third menu - development - with the developer > > Âinfo's/pages and cvs stuff > > This info is already available in the Developers branch. > http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/devel/ I know; but IMHO developer information should be concentrated in one menu; currently we have: "Development" in main menu "Developers" and "cvs repository" in Sourceforge menu. The task manager entry (Sourecforge) points to a currently unused sourceforge feature. I vote for removing/hiding until it is used. I've always get a bad impression about a project on sourceforge if the link to "dead sides". On the download page I find GNU Arch repository - "page not found" - but what's the intention behind? About redundancies - I almost agree - but Releases/branches are the heart of LEAF - having three pointers (menu entry, navigatable derivation picture and navigation bar) is not a bad idea. For users who know what they are looking for, a navigation bar is a short path to the branch they like to access. For new users a menu entry is helpful - not to mention that the current intro page of release/branches is missing on new webpage. At least some general information should be given if we follow a "chaotic evolutionary development" - the bar won't do. kp --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id%62&alloc_ida84&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
Mike Noyes wrote: On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 09:21, Mike Noyes wrote: The readability of the nav bar may be related to the small caps, and fonts you have installed. Do you have the Bitstream Vera fonts installed? K. P. & Tom, I just increased the size of the nav bar font for our hub site. Please let me know if it is acceptable now. New navbar: http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/ Old navbar: http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/bering/ *Much* better, Mike Thanks! -Tom PS -- I'm not using the Bitstream Vera fonts. -- Tom Eastep\ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 09:21, Mike Noyes wrote: > The readability of the nav bar may be related to the small caps, and > fonts you have installed. Do you have the Bitstream Vera fonts > installed? K. P. & Tom, I just increased the size of the nav bar font for our hub site. Please let me know if it is acceptable now. New navbar: http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/ Old navbar: http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/bering/ -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 08:47, Tom Eastep wrote: > > I changed the font (bold, small caps, and size) and bar size (padding) > > in this release. I gather the improvements weren't enough to make the > > nav bar stand out for you. > > Given that it is both dark and tiny, it does not stand out at all. Under > Firefox on my 19" monitor, "Bering uClibc" is only about 2/3" wide and > is almost unreadable. "Lince" *is* unreadable. Tom, Thanks for the feedback. :-) The readability of the nav bar may be related to the small caps, and fonts you have installed. Do you have the Bitstream Vera fonts installed? > I agree with KP that the Releases/Branches menu should return. I'll give this serious consideration. If it returns, the nav bar won't. I've been trying to eliminate redundant information. Everyone, Does anyone think the nav bar is usable? Is it worth working on further, or should I scrap it? Is it good enough to last a few months waiting for phpWebSite 0.9.4 to be released? Note: this theme is only temporary. We'll have a theme contest as soon as phpWebSite 0.9.4 is released. BTW, people using mozilla/firefox will have their pages served to them using application/xhtml+xml. Browsers incapable of handling xml will have there pages served with text/html. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
Mike, Mike Noyes wrote: The menu above all with the branches is also a nice one - but was hard to find - well you told me it's there; I simply overlooked - maybe it's expectation about pages (and most of the pages are that way) "menu's are on left side, in the middle, top of page is nothing, bottom of page boring disclaims" - and it's so small, with bad eyes you can't even read it. But don't remove it - if you are aware of it, it's a good enhancement. I changed the font (bold, small caps, and size) and bar size (padding) in this release. I gather the improvements weren't enough to make the nav bar stand out for you. Given that it is both dark and tiny, it does not stand out at all. Under Firefox on my 19" monitor, "Bering uClibc" is only about 2/3" wide and is almost unreadable. "Lince" *is* unreadable. I agree with KP that the Releases/Branches menu should return. -Tom -- Tom Eastep\ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Sat, 15 May 2004, Mike Noyes wrote: > Everyone, > A new preview of our website is on-line at: > > http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/ > Note: I still need to add our announcements, rss feeds, and > developer login information. > > Feedback is appreciated. > > -- > Mike Noyes > http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ Mike was looking at //leaf.steinkueler.net/bering-uclibc/ The Floppy Image section and clicked on "changelog section" link and it took me to //leaf.steinkueler.net/ a minor whoops. I will be looking around more later. Will try to call on Monday. Was glad you are recovering and all the hard work for LEAF! Larry Platzek [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 00:46, K.-P. KirchdÃrfer wrote: > a few points: K.-P., Thanks for the feedback. :-) > 1) Can you move entry for "MailingLists" from sourceforge menu to Main > menu? Looking at a new side I'm mostly interested in > a) downloads > b) docs > c) Mailinglists - which tell me most about activity and culture > of this project, and is an invaluable source of knowledge. I can, but there are two reasons I think it's not a good idea. First, in my opinion, people look for Support before Mailing Lists. Our support page has links to the list archive and subscription page. It also has instructions on how to ask for help. Second, the link in the SourceForge menu points to our SF mailing list page. That page lists multiple lists in addition to the full SF interface. It may be confusing to a new user. > 2) I'm still not satisfied with the solution how find the different > branches. Noted. > The menu above all with the branches is also a nice one - but was hard > to find - well you told me it's there; I simply overlooked - maybe > it's expectation about pages (and most of the pages are that way) > "menu's are on left side, in the middle, top of page is nothing, > bottom of page boring disclaims" - and it's so small, with bad eyes > you can't even read it. But don't remove it - if you are aware of it, > it's a good enhancement. I changed the font (bold, small caps, and size) and bar size (padding) in this release. I gather the improvements weren't enough to make the nav bar stand out for you. > I really like to have the current "Releases/branches" back (maybe > called only Branches) and without the submenu below a branch as today This sounds redundant to me, but I'll think about it. > 3) Maybe we should have a third menu - development - with the developer > info's/pages and cvs stuff This info is already available in the Developers branch. http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/devel/ KirchdÃrfer, KP http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/devel/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=42 Noyes, Mike http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/devel/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=51 > That said; thanks for your work! > And indicates you are recovered, great. The work is my pleasure. However, I'm still working on a few issues resulting from my 'left front to parietal epidural hematoma'. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id%62&alloc_ida84&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
Am Sonntag, 16. Mai 2004 00:11 schrieb Mike Noyes: > Everyone, > A new preview of our website is on-line at: > > http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/ > > Note: I still need to add our announcements, rss feeds, and > developer login information. > > Feedback is appreciated. Hello Mike; a few points: 1) Can you move entry for "MailingLists" from sourceforge menu to Main menu? Looking at a new side I'm mostly interested in a) downloads b) docs c) Mailinglists - which tell me most about activity and culture of this project, and is an invaluable source of knowledge. 2) I'm still not satisfied with the solution how find the different branches. The derivation picture is very nice - IF you know you can click on a branch. If you don't know, as I did first time you are lost. Besides that, for LEAF experienced users it's a genealogy, for a lot of users it's confusing - so IMHO not the best entry. The menu above all with the branches is also a nice one - but was hard to find - well you told me it's there; I simply overlooked - maybe it's expectation about pages (and most of the pages are that way) "menu's are on left side, in the middle, top of page is nothing, bottom of page boring disclaims" - and it's so small, with bad eyes you can't even read it. But don't remove it - if you are aware of it, it's a good enhancement. I really like to have the current "Releases/branches" back (maybe called only Branches) and without the submenu below a branch as today 3) Maybe we should have a third menu - development - with the developer info's/pages and cvs stuff That said; thanks for your work! And indicates you are recovered, great. kp --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: SourceForge.net Broadband Sign-up now for SourceForge Broadband and get the fastest 6.0/768 connection for only $19.95/mo for the first 3 months! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=2562&alloc_id=6184&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [leaf-devel] New website theme(s)
On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 00:43, Steven Peck wrote: > Also, depending on what you use, IE 5.5 may break ifyou go entirely css > compliant. Mozilla Firefox also can render things in an interesting > manner. Layout can be tables with font, formatting placement controlled > by css. Setven, I'm aware of some of the CSS 2.0 visual formating model issues with older browsers. CSS 2.1 RC addresses the major ones. I'm most concerned with creation of XHTML/CSS 2.0 valid pages. Next on my list is, WAI semantically correct pages. Last is CSS visual formatting that gracefully degrades with older browsers. > BTW: Have you seen zengarden? > http://www.csszengarden.com/ Yep. Very nice css example that's referenced often as a good implementation of content separation from presentation. > I love this one http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=069%2F069%2Ecss but > it is not pratical for a tech site. > > I almost had phpWebsite up, stupid path failures. :( but for my external > web server I am limited to Win32 and between my new son, work and > restarting school, I don't have time to bring up the Linux box and get > it working after I built it again. I'll need to get it working again so > I can build some themes for the contest. I'm working on mirroring instructions. It is possible to run phpWebSite on Windows, but the setup is harder. Drop by irc.freenode.net #phpwebsite, if you need help getting phpWebSite running on Windows. > When's 0.94 slated for release? phpWebSite 0.9.4 should be out this summer. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [leaf-devel] New website theme(s)
Also, depending on what you use, IE 5.5 may break ifyou go entirely css compliant. Mozilla Firefox also can render things in an interesting manner. Layout can be tables with font, formatting placement controlled by css. BTW: Have you seen zengarden? http://www.csszengarden.com/ I love this one http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=069%2F069%2Ecss but it is not pratical for a tech site. I almost had phpWebsite up, stupid path failures. :( but for my external web server I am limited to Win32 and between my new son, work and restarting school, I don't have time to bring up the Linux box and get it working after I built it again. I'll need to get it working again so I can build some themes for the contest. When's 0.94 slated for release? -sp NOTE: Because my primary job in supporting Windows, my home environment partially replicates work. This way I can learn and make mistakes in a manner that won't cost me my job :) > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Mike Noyes > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 6:32 PM > To: leaf-devel > Subject: [leaf-devel] New website theme(s) > > Everyone, > Should we have a single theme for all of our sites (hub, bering, > bering-uclibc, devel, lince, oxygen, wisp-dist), or separate themes? > > Example of separate theme ideas: oxygen (airy), > bering (watery), > wisp-dist (wirey), etc. > > Note: the current pre-release demo is using a single theme. > > Currently, the phpWebSite theme engine isn't able to handle the CSS > visual formatting model well. Therefore tables are still used for > layout. I'd like to postpone any theme design contests until after > phpWebSite 0.9.4 is released. > > -- > Mike Noyes > http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ > SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs > > > > --- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials > Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of > GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system > administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click > > ___ > leaf-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel > > --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id70&alloc_id638&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 10:19, K.-P. KirchdÃrfer wrote: > Am Dienstag, 30. MÃrz 2004 19:44 schrieb Mike Noyes: > > Announcements haven't been added yet. It's one of the last things I'll > > add. The Bering uClibc branch isn't done either. > > Ok, understand - it will be there once it's going online. K.-P., There is one issue. The rssfeeds module isn't able to aggregate branch announcement feeds into a single hub announcement list. I'm talking with the developer about adding branch feed aggregation. > > Others have commented on this also. I'm open to suggestions. > > > > Note: I got the top navbar idea from the SF.net OSDN navbar. > > http://sourceforge.net/ > > Yep, that's thinner than everything and I have never seen it before yo > mentioned it - I think you get it. > My suggestion to keep it and to add the old Releases/Branches entry back in > main menu - maybe without the submenues - as second link main menu. I'll look at solutions for this issue in the next couple of days. Note: this is a theme issue. The current one is a quick hack. > > Noted. I kind of like the imagemap. It's simple and easy to navigate. I > > created it, so I'm probably biased. > > Geez; I wasn't aware that it's navigatable!! Great! A real easter-egg :) > Do it the old way as in current Releases/Branches; maybe put it on top. > Anyway "Releases/branches" is a better description and some epxlanation as > today will be useful. I'll work on this too. > > > 4) I don't like those serife fonts and prefer sans-serife, but it's > > > matter of taste I agree; > > > > Web designers got into a bad habit of using sans-serif fonts > > As I said it's a matter of taste, Agreed. Note: this is a theme issue. The current one is a quick hack. > > > 5) I do not understand right menu "What's related" - is that generated > > > dynamically? > > > > Yes. It's generated by the fatcat module. It's supposed to act as a site > > cross-reference. > > I do not understand - I'll try again - is that content generated dynamically > from the pages I browsed before? No. It's generated by categories setup in fatcat. The page you're browsing is associated with specific categories. The related links are generated from those associations. Example: FatCat category: Branch -> Lead Developer Charles and your developer pages are marked as belonging to that category. Now when you browse either page a related link is generated to the other page. Example: FatCat category: Branch -> Bering uClibc When viewing any team members page links to the other members pages will show in what's related. It's a way to cross-reference a site. I'm still figuring out how to make best use of it. Note: I've only populated fatcat in the hub and devel branch site. I put a few in WISP Dist for website links. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id70&alloc_id638&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
Am Dienstag, 30. MÃrz 2004 19:44 schrieb Mike Noyes: > On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 09:06, K.-P. KirchdÃrfer wrote: > > a few notes, I hope I'll find more time to have a closer look: > > > > 1) I hope News Announcements will be available on first/home page as > > today and it's only the tsting enviroemnt which don't show the news. > > K.-P., > Announcements haven't been added yet. It's one of the last things I'll > add. The Bering uClibc branch isn't done either. Ok, understand - it will be there once it's going online. > > 2) The different branches are now shown on top of page - but it's very > > small and should be more prominent, because the users are looking for the > > software. Maybe it should be as today a "Branches" entry in the Main > > Menu. > > > > (As I look on the pages, the small entries on top are the most important, > > but can easily overlooked. > > Others have commented on this also. I'm open to suggestions. > > Note: I got the top navbar idea from the SF.net OSDN navbar. > http://sourceforge.net/ Yep, that's thinner than everything and I have never seen it before yo mentioned it - I think you get it. My suggestion to keep it and to add the old Releases/Branches entry back in main menu - maybe without the submenues - as second link main menu. > > 3) Derivation in the Main Menu is to much for a issue which is only for > > history and those who interested in it to be part of Main Menu; instead I > > prefer something like > > http://leaf.sourceforge.net/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=9&page_id=2 > > Noted. I kind of like the imagemap. It's simple and easy to navigate. I > created it, so I'm probably biased. Geez; I wasn't aware that it's navigatable!! Great! A real easter-egg :) Do it the old way as in current Releases/Branches; maybe put it on top. Anyway "Releases/branches" is a better description and some epxlanation as today will be useful. > > 4) I don't like those serife fonts and prefer sans-serife, but it's > > matter of taste I agree; > > Web designers got into a bad habit of using sans-serif fonts > exclusively. Font support is much better now. There is no reason to > avoid serif fonts now. Serif fonts provide hinting for eye travel that > makes reading easier. How many books do you know of that are printed > using sans-serif fonts exclusively? :) None, at least none I like to read. But we are talking about webpages - maybe I'm too long at the web and used to old-style... As I said it's a matter of taste,I'll try to keep up with new style. > > 5) I do not understand right menu "What's related" - is that generated > > dynamically? > > Yes. It's generated by the fatcat module. It's supposed to act as a site > cross-reference. I do not understand - I'll try again - is that content generated dynamically from the pages I browsed before? kp --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id70&alloc_id638&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 09:06, K.-P. KirchdÃrfer wrote: > a few notes, I hope I'll find more time to have a closer look: > > 1) I hope News Announcements will be available on first/home page as today and > it's only the tsting enviroemnt which don't show the news. K.-P., Announcements haven't been added yet. It's one of the last things I'll add. The Bering uClibc branch isn't done either. > 2) The different branches are now shown on top of page - but it's very small > and should be more prominent, because the users are looking for the software. > Maybe it should be as today a "Branches" entry in the Main Menu. > > (As I look on the pages, the small entries on top are the most important, but > can easily overlooked. Others have commented on this also. I'm open to suggestions. Note: I got the top navbar idea from the SF.net OSDN navbar. http://sourceforge.net/ > 3) Derivation in the Main Menu is to much for a issue which is only for > history and those who interested in it to be part of Main Menu; instead I > prefer something like > http://leaf.sourceforge.net/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=9&page_id=2 Noted. I kind of like the imagemap. It's simple and easy to navigate. I created it, so I'm probably biased. Note: I plan on updating the imagemap as soon as I can figure out my font problem with dia on suse. > 4) I don't like those serife fonts and prefer sans-serife, but it's matter of > taste I agree; Web designers got into a bad habit of using sans-serif fonts exclusively. Font support is much better now. There is no reason to avoid serif fonts now. Serif fonts provide hinting for eye travel that makes reading easier. How many books do you know of that are printed using sans-serif fonts exclusively? > 5) I do not understand right menu "What's related" - is that generated > dynamically? Yes. It's generated by the fatcat module. It's supposed to act as a site cross-reference. > 6) the sort order of Project Members on http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/devel/ is > beyond me - if there is any. I also liked the comments as today, seems they > have gone The sort order will be fixed. I'm still working on that branch. The current order matches our project member listing on SF.net. > 7) I understand that this is a lot of work!!! Thx Mike! I'm enjoying it. :-) -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id70&alloc_id638&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
Am Dienstag, 30. März 2004 02:26 schrieb Mike Noyes: > On Sun, 2004-03-21 at 14:09, Charles Steinkuehler wrote: > > Mike Noyes wrote: > > > Website Update Status: > > > I'm about 50-60% done with the upgrade. I'm not sure how long the > > > remainder of the upgrade will take. I'll keep everyone posted on my > > > progress. Thanks for being patient. > > > > Thanks for all your hard work on this Mike! > > Charles, > Thank you for letting me use your mirror for testing. :-) > > Everyone, > A preview of our new website is on-line at: > > http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/ > > Note: It's not complete yet, but most of the site is there. > > Feedback is appreciated. Ok; a few notes, I hope I'll find more time to have a closer look: 1) I hope News Announcements will be available on first/home page as today and it's only the tsting enviroemnt which don't show the news. 2) The different branches are now shown on top of page - but it's very small and should be more prominent, because the users are looking for the software. Maybe it should be as today a "Branches" entry in the Main Menu. (As I look on the pages, the small entries on top are the most important, but can easily overlooked. 3) Derivation in the Main Menu is to much for a issue which is only for history and those who interested in it to be part of Main Menu; instead I prefer something like http://leaf.sourceforge.net/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=9&page_id=2 4) I don't like those serife fonts and prefer sans-serife, but it's matter of taste I agree; 5) I do not understand right menu "What's related" - is that generated dynamically? 6) the sort order of Project Members on http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/devel/ is beyond me - if there is any. I also liked the comments as today, seems they have gone 7) I understand that this is a lot of work!!! Thx Mike! kp --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id70&alloc_id638&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Sun, 2004-03-21 at 14:09, Charles Steinkuehler wrote: > Mike Noyes wrote: > > Website Update Status: > > I'm about 50-60% done with the upgrade. I'm not sure how long the > > remainder of the upgrade will take. I'll keep everyone posted on my > > progress. Thanks for being patient. > > Thanks for all your hard work on this Mike! Charles, Thank you for letting me use your mirror for testing. :-) Everyone, A preview of our new website is on-line at: http://leaf.steinkuehler.net/ Note: It's not complete yet, but most of the site is there. Feedback is appreciated. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
Mike Noyes wrote: Website Update Status: I'm about 50-60% done with the upgrade. I'm not sure how long the remainder of the upgrade will take. I'll keep everyone posted on my progress. Thanks for being patient. Thanks for all your hard work on this Mike! -- Charles Steinkuehler [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Tue, 2004-03-16 at 12:12, Mike Noyes wrote: > As you may have noticed, our new website isn't operational yet. Work is > progressing slowly. I'll keep everyone informed of my progress, and post > a message 24 hours prior to the upgrade. Everyone, Our shell space usage is now within our allotted 500MB. This was achieved by archiving c0wz, steinkuehler.net, old oxygen site, and packetfilter. Tarballs of the archived content are available in our FRS area on SF.net. Unsupported or Old Releases: website https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=13751&package_id=11519&release_id=124474 IMPORTANT: Please refrain from adding content to our shell space until I complete the upgrade of our website. Thanks. Website Update Status: I'm about 50-60% done with the upgrade. I'm not sure how long the remainder of the upgrade will take. I'll keep everyone posted on my progress. Thanks for being patient. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
On Mon, 2004-03-08 at 14:51, Mike Noyes wrote: > Everyone, > The website upgrade is taking longer than I anticipated. I'm less than a > quarter done. Even so, I hope to go live with the new site this weekend. Everyone, As you may have noticed, our new website isn't operational yet. Work is progressing slowly. I'll keep everyone informed of my progress, and post a message 24 hours prior to the upgrade. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] New Website
Hi Mohan, El Lun 08 Mar 2004 23:51, Mike Noyes escribió: > Everyone, > The website upgrade is taking longer than I anticipated. I'm less than a > quarter done. Even so, I hope to go live with the new site this weekend. > > Those that want to get a feel for the new features can use the demo at > ASU: > > http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu/demo/0.9.x/ I like this new website :-). -- Juan Jesús Prieto - Consultoría TI [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.eneotecnologia.com --- fingerprint: BFC2 0370 7708 F800 0BEC 60A4 EC71 4BB1 CC85 99F5 http://pgp.rediris.es:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCC8599F5 --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
