Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

hi bill,
   when i originally combined my two mills to make an extended 
machine , i purchased a 16 ft. acme thread...luckily, the company that made 
the thread(and supplied legacy, as i found out), was local to me so i was 
able to pick it up and avoid a freight charge...this left me with a 9 ft. 
piece and a 7 ft. piece as extra, left over pieces...so i cut the length i 
needed from the 7 ft. piece and turned both ends down to 3/8", as the 
original piece was...one end attaches to the hand wheel and the other just 
sits in the bearing...relatively simple but i do have the benefit of having 
a metal lathe...although it is not of a commercial quality...got to say, 
having a good amount of parts from a donor machine has helped me do all my 
mods, to a great degree...thanks for the compliment...joe

>
>  

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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

Looking good joe may I ask how did you lengthen the acme thread 

Bill

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2015 10:19 AM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Cc: curtgeo...@wowway.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

 

today's progress...extended the "Y" axis aluminum rails and linear bearing 
rails...also extended the acme threaded rod for the "Y" axis...and tweaked the 
DRO for the "Y" axis a bit...re-assembled the carriage and mounted it on the 
machine...first photo shows the right hand aluminum rail made of two joined 
pieces...the second photo the left side...off-set the joined pieces to furthere 
strengthen and stabilize the entire carriage...carriage slides as well as it 
did before the mod, so all is good...still need the do the gear train to get it 
back to a functioning machine...will begin that tomorrow...joe

 

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

extending the "Y" axis rails on my mill...similar technique as i described 
in the "extending rail" post,,,but now i also have the added benefit of 
adding the linear rail carriage...the linear carriage railing adds some 
serious stiffness to the joined legacy rail, and underneath the railing is 
the 1 1/2" flat bar...the linear rail "nestles" itself into the legacy rail 
and self centers itself, so no side, set screws were necessary on this 
side...nor was it necessary to add that 5/8" piece of flat bar into the 
side of the legacy rail...there is a piece of 1 1/2" bar on the underside 
of the legacy rail, creating a "sandwich" effect...here we did use the 
10-32 set screws to take out any play...very strong and very 
straight...added approximately 12" to the "Y" axis...photos of completed 
and installed "Y" carriage to follow soon...joe

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 9:06:33 AM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:
>
> hey curtis,
>basically, i am planning to follow the lead of what 
> legacy originally designed...that is, their "V" design of the gear 
> carriage...as different size gears are set up on the lead screw end, the 
> head stock and the shaft at the bottom of the carriage, the "V" will change 
> from a tight "V" to an open "V"...i don't believe the different heights of 
> the bed will greatly effect the length of the gear carriage...i'll 
> guess,for now, about 1/2"...the gears are what greatly lengthen and shorten 
> the gear train...i'll keep things simple as far as fabrication goes and go 
> with the three 60 tooth gears...once mocked up, i'll set up the largest 
> gear set up and also the smallest and see if all is ok...hopefully, it will 
> be...if it isn't, your suggestion could be a viable solution...let's see 
> where this goes...thanks...joe
>
>
>>

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

hey curtis,
   basically, i am planning to follow the lead of what 
legacy originally designed...that is, their "V" design of the gear 
carriage...as different size gears are set up on the lead screw end, the 
head stock and the shaft at the bottom of the carriage, the "V" will change 
from a tight "V" to an open "V"...i don't believe the different heights of 
the bed will greatly effect the length of the gear carriage...i'll 
guess,for now, about 1/2"...the gears are what greatly lengthen and shorten 
the gear train...i'll keep things simple as far as fabrication goes and go 
with the three 60 tooth gears...once mocked up, i'll set up the largest 
gear set up and also the smallest and see if all is ok...hopefully, it will 
be...if it isn't, your suggestion could be a viable solution...let's see 
where this goes...thanks...joe


>

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[CURTIS GEORGE]

Hello And Good morning Joe. (and everyone else.) ;-) 

Joe I like your mock-up. One suggestion though, on the middle gear, instead of 
adding a ball-bearing on/in it, how about going one step further and making a 
square shaft that turns and keep the gear as is. this way if you need, you can 
always add a smaller gear in the place of this 60 tooth gear ,(My thinking is 
if the mill is up, a smaller gear could be placed in its spot to make up the 
difference for height.) 
I have made my own "Poor man's gear Multiplier, years ago, and used a Stainless 
Steel screw as the center and then just drilled a hole thought a 1/4" square 
stock, Its not as precise as a ball bearing, but its small, simple and it works 
well for me. perhaps you could try something like it to fill in your gear 
train? 
I wish you the best of luck on your project. 
have a good day. 
C.A.G. 
- Original Message -

From: "'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills" 
 
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 8:01:57 PM 
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy 

latest update...head stocks done and set up on the mill...tail stock as 
well...reinforced the tail stock to give it some additional strength so it 
won't twist or warp...did the same to the head stocks as well, just in 
case...everything lines up and spinning true, as it was before...did a mock up 
of what i hope to be the modified gear train...simply used cable ties for 
now...this idea seems to be the way to go...it will be quick and easy...just 
some cutting and welding...setting up the one gear with that small ball bearing 
will be a bit difficult, but doable...in this mock up the measurement from the 
center of the head stock to the center of the lead screw is 15 1/4"...of course 
this can change as the bed goes up and down(bed is currently set for a 15" 
diameter turning)...going to give this some thought over the weekend, but if i 
feel i like it, i'll start modifying the gear train on monday...as always, all 
comments, critiques and suggestions are welcome...thanks...joe 
















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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

tim,
  there is a specific reason i felt i needed to add two gears...the 
existing, standard legacy direction gear has the two washers on either side 
of the gear...if i added just one gear i would have two gears meshing 
against each other but without any washers in place to almost guarantee 
that they would slide apart sideways from each other...so following 
legacy's stock set up, it goes from a gear on the lead screw(no washers) to 
the direction gear(washers) to the gear on the bottom spindle(no washers) 
to the gear that is on the other side of that bottom gear(washers) to the 
gear on the head stock spindle(no washers)...point being, the legacy people 
felt it always necessary when any two gears were meshing, that there be two 
washers in place to make sure they did not "slide" off each other...the 
extra legacy gear i have already has the "U" shaped channel that slides up 
and down the gear channel...with just a bit of a cut and weld i can put 
together the extra directional gear and the matching 60 tooth gear from my 
gear set on one piece of "U" channel...extend the inner piece of the "U" 
channel as necessary and i am basically done...and when reversing. just use 
the standard legacy reversing gear set up...the 7 1/2" gear with the two 90 
tooth gears might actually be too long...i only need to extend the carriage 
4"...i am currently in the process of putting the head stocks back onto the 
machine and then i should be able to get a more accurate grip on all of 
this...photos to follow soon, i hope...thanks...joe


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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Tim Krause]

Joe,

We are basically on the same page.  After looking at the photo on the 9th, I 
would use a 180 tooth gear to fill the space  (The standard duplex size (7-1/2" 
off the top of my head)) to go one direction and two 90 tooth gears to go the 
opposite direction.  I would put bearings in each gear.  This would eliminate 
some gears from your plan.  The setup would be built just like the direction 
gears are with whatever modification it takes to get the correct travel.  As a 
footnote, you have the standard gears.   Carry on, the way you are going will 
get you there.

-Tim

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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

You would know if you had a 4x set they are totally different. but Tim has a 
point if you did they reach a lot further

Bill

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, 13 February 2015 9:36 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

 

tim, 

  check my post from feb. 9th...there are photos of what is a typical 
legacy gear set up from a typical machine and a photo of the expanded gear 
train of what i am hoping will work out in regards to a 
modification/lengthening...it was laid out according to some rough measurements 
i made...i don't believe i have that 4X gear set...isn't that the one you said 
came with the model 2000?...and it has a different type of gear carriage?...if 
the 4X is that type, than for sure i do not have it...i just have all the other 
typical gear sets...basically the plan is to leave the direction gear as it 
was...it will still slide on the carriage as originally intended...lengthen the 
carriage as necessary to then allow a double gear set up to also slide on the 
carriage(this is a simple cut and weld as i do have a second carriage)...all in 
line with the directional gear...this will give me the length i need...the new 
double gear set up will be another directional gear that i had and the matching 
2 1/2" gear from an extra gear set i had...the new directional gear already has 
that small bearing built into it, with the two large washers on either side of 
the gear, and the bracket that holds it and slides on the carriage...the gear 
from the gear set has the small square hole in it(originally intended to go 
onto the lead screw) which i will turn on a lathe to accept a new small bearing 
i purchased, which is the same bearing as in the directional gear... so it will 
be the original 2 1/2" directional gear with washers, driving a 2 1/2" gear 
with no washers, driving another 2 1/2" directional gear with the 
washers...this is all happening between the lead screw and the idler shaft at 
the center/bottom of the carriage...between the idler shaft and the head stock 
remains as it originally was...this is all in theory and a quick mock up laid 
out on paper...i'll know more when the head stock is on the widened machine and 
i can do actual, real mock ups...and as i mentioned before, i am considering 
making a quick, wooden, mock-up carriage to try this idea out...and all of this 
is possible only because of all the extra pieces i have left over from the 
second machine used to do the extension, which started this whole mess, 
LOL...if i did not have these extra pieces, this aspect of this mod certainly 
would have been much more difficult...i feel lucky that things worked out as 
well as they did because i had the second machine...hope i have explained it 
well...let me know what you think of it all...thanks...joe

 

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

tim, 
  check my post from feb. 9th...there are photos of what is a typical 
legacy gear set up from a typical machine and a photo of the expanded gear 
train of what i am hoping will work out in regards to a 
modification/lengthening...it was laid out according to some rough 
measurements i made...i don't believe i have that 4X gear set...isn't that 
the one you said came with the model 2000?...and it has a different type of 
gear carriage?...if the 4X is that type, than for sure i do not have it...i 
just have all the other typical gear sets...basically the plan is to leave 
the direction gear as it was...it will still slide on the carriage as 
originally intended...lengthen the carriage as necessary to then allow a 
double gear set up to also slide on the carriage(this is a simple cut and 
weld as i do have a second carriage)...all in line with the directional 
gear...this will give me the length i need...the new double gear set up 
will be another directional gear that i had and the matching 2 1/2" gear 
from an extra gear set i had...the new directional gear already has that 
small bearing built into it, with the two large washers on either side of 
the gear, and the bracket that holds it and slides on the carriage...the 
gear from the gear set has the small square hole in it(originally intended 
to go onto the lead screw) which i will turn on a lathe to accept a new 
small bearing i purchased, which is the same bearing as in the directional 
gear... so it will be the original 2 1/2" directional gear with washers, 
driving a 2 1/2" gear with no washers, driving another 2 1/2" directional 
gear with the washers...this is all happening between the lead screw and 
the idler shaft at the center/bottom of the carriage...between the idler 
shaft and the head stock remains as it originally was...this is all in 
theory and a quick mock up laid out on paper...i'll know more when the head 
stock is on the widened machine and i can do actual, real mock ups...and as 
i mentioned before, i am considering making a quick, wooden, mock-up 
carriage to try this idea out...and all of this is possible only because of 
all the extra pieces i have left over from the second machine used to do 
the extension, which started this whole mess, LOL...if i did not have these 
extra pieces, this aspect of this mod certainly would have been much more 
difficult...i feel lucky that things worked out as well as they did because 
i had the second machine...hope i have explained it well...let me know what 
you think of it all...thanks...joe


>

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Tim Krause]

Which gear set do you have, I'm assuming the 4x.  My vote would be to modify 
the direction gear with larger gears and lengthen the arm.  I hope that is the 
direction you are going.  

-Tim

  - Original Message - 
  From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
  To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
  Cc: curtgeo...@wowway.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 6:01 PM
  Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy


  hey curtis!...regarding the gear train, right now i am leaning towards 
lengthening it...it seems easy enough...i only had to buy a small bearing for 
the one 2 1/2" gear...the other one already has the bearing...otherwise, i have 
everything i need...if i did do a chain set up, i would still have to lengthen 
the carriage...a lot will be determined once i get the head stock back onto the 
machine and i can play with some gear combinations...might even make the 
carriage pieces out of wood to do the mock ups before i cut up the gear 
trains...i have already designed a bracket that would stabilize the bottom of 
the gear train...i'm thinking if it is lengthened, it will be swinging in the 
wind, so to speak...the bracket would be easily removable, if necessary...i 
think your right regarding the slots in the tail stock...and certainly widening 
it did not help...i'll be looking closer at that tomorrow...thanks for the 
input...more to follow...joe





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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

hey curtis!...regarding the gear train, right now i am leaning towards 
lengthening it...it seems easy enough...i only had to buy a small bearing 
for the one 2 1/2" gear...the other one already has the 
bearing...otherwise, i have everything i need...if i did do a chain set up, 
i would still have to lengthen the carriage...a lot will be determined once 
i get the head stock back onto the machine and i can play with some gear 
combinations...might even make the carriage pieces out of wood to do the 
mock ups before i cut up the gear trains...i have already designed a 
bracket that would stabilize the bottom of the gear train...i'm thinking if 
it is lengthened, it will be swinging in the wind, so to speak...the 
bracket would be easily removable, if necessary...i think your right 
regarding the slots in the tail stock...and certainly widening it did not 
help...i'll be looking closer at that tomorrow...thanks for the 
input...more to follow...joe


>

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[CURTIS GEORGE]

Good going Joe. 
I think your slots are the weak points on your tail stock, as well as the cause 
of your twisting.adding a plate over most of your open spaces would be a good 
call. (you can always paint it latter.) ;-p 
Joe have you figured out how you are going to deal with you gear train yet? I 
personalty like the idea of bridging the gap with gears and chain and keeping 
your original set-up the same (but I would like to know how you are going 
to handle this ... Expansion ?) 
Keep up the good work Joe! 
C.A.G. 

- Original Message -

From: "'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills" 
 
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:56:57 PM 
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy 

ok, down and dirty for today...photos show all three pieces in the jig...head 
stock, spindle drive head stock and tail stock...tail stock welded together, no 
paint(sorry, curtis!)...again used the double morse taper between the tail 
stock and the spindle drive...used the coupling for the spindle drive to align 
it with the first head stock...all level and aligned on all planes...bit of a 
bear to get it all straight...i think the heat from welding the tail stock may 
have twisted it a bit, but a little bit of heat while all was lined up 
straightened out that problem...i believe those slots in the tail stock weakens 
it a bit...i'll probably add some metal in spots to reinforce the tail stock a 
bit, but still allowing access to the screws on the ends...did not have any 
issues with any other pieces twisting or warping...so i'll assume it's the 
slots that caused the problem...should button this up tomorrow...then it's on 
to the gear train!...and back to a functioning machine!...oh yeah, right after 
i mess with the "Y" axis carriage a bit...but that is fairly 
simplistic...joe...p.s. to michelle...you've got some beard for a chick! 











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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

Your joeacy is looking good and almost done it will be worth it in the end when 
you turn your first 

Big column .

 

like the name joeacy you can hardly still call it a legacy now

 

Bill

 

 

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, 13 February 2015 1:23 AM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Cc: curtgeo...@wowway.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

 

okay ladies, here's another update...welded together one of the two head 
stocks, in a jig as previously posted...took care to center it, don't think i 
am more than .015 out, but it's really not that critical, as the tail stock and 
other head stock will be welded together using this head stock as it's 
reference to guarantee all three line up...the first photo shows the completed 
head stock in a jig prepared to weld together the tail stock...the jig is a 
replication of the widened bed on my mill...head stock in place and using a 
double morse taper piece to line up the tail stock center section with the head 
stock on all planes...the new metal pieces were then cut and fitted to mate 
with the tail stock center piece, as shown in the second and third 
photos...just need to do the welding...when the tail stock is completed, the 
head stock will be removed from the jig and the other head stock, which is in 
pieces, will replace it, and now the tail stock will be used to align the head 
stock...pieces will be cut, fitted and welded to complete the second head 
stock...then i am done with the major cutting and welding operations of this 
mod...it was fun for a while but now it is getting tedious and 
boring...glad it is almost finished...all comments welcome...joe

 

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Okla Mike (Liltwisted)]

There is no better place to start than in it's final point.  Way to go 
girl friend!

Michelle
OK
On 2/12/2015 8:23 AM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote:
okay ladies, here's another update...welded together one of the two 
head stocks, in a jig as previously posted...took care to center it, 
don't think i am more than .015 out, but it's really not that 
critical, as the tail stock and other head stock will be welded 
together using this head stock as it's reference to guarantee all 
three line up...the first photo shows the completed head stock in a 
jig prepared to weld together the tail stock...the jig is a 
replication of the widened bed on my mill...head stock in place and 
using a double morse taper piece to line up the tail stock center 
section with the head stock on all planes...the new metal pieces were 
then cut and fitted to mate with the tail stock center piece, as shown 
in the second and third photos...just need to do the welding...when 
the tail stock is completed, the head stock will be removed from the 
jig and the other head stock, which is in pieces, will replace it, and 
now the tail stock will be used to align the head stock...pieces will 
be cut, fitted and welded to complete the second head stock...then i 
am done with the major cutting and welding operations of this 
mod...it was fun for a while but now it is getting tedious and 
boring...glad it is almost finished...all comments welcome...joe



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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[CURTIS GEORGE]

Joe 
Is that realy your head stock cut in peices? Where are the tabs that lock the 
headstock into the Alum. rail? I know over the years Legacy changes a lot of 
things, but...? It looks to me like your headstock only locks in to place with 
the T nuts.(inserts & screws)  On my 1000 both the head and tail stock had 
projections that stuck out and locked the parts onto and in the Alum rail. 
C.A.G. 

- Original Message -

From: "'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills" 
 
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 5:34:04 AM 
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy 

bill...you are correct...each piece gets two cuts...as i did with the bed 
risers to keep the screw centered...a PITA and a good amount of work, but 
simple enough...no other way around that unless i wanted to do some precise 
milling... and i do not have the proper machinery to do that...the photos show 
the jig i made for the head stock...all other components that needed enlarging 
had similar jigs made for that particular piece...and with the jigs, i was able 
to check to make sure certain pieces were the same width( or depth, as the case 
may be) as others...for example, the bed risers the same as the bottom, center, 
cross braces...a jig was made for the tail stock, that matches the head stock 
jig in width...the head stock and tail stock jigs match the bed riser jig when 
you add the width of two legacy rails...etc., etcpoint being, i was able to 
consistently check and re-check myself before welding things back 
together...the head stock and tail stock are a bit tricky as they have to be 
centered and line up with each other...i'll be working on a dedicated jig to 
accomplish that, later...will post photos...still need to cut and fit the metal 
pieces for the head stock and tail stock, which is the PITA reference...since 
the legacy pieces are not standard sizes( 2 X 3, 2 X 4, for example) i need to 
cut a 2 X 3 into four pieces, grind to proper width, height and length, so it 
all lines up and matches the legacy pieces...some welding,some grinding, a few 
coats of spray paint and your done...anyway, the real fun is about to 
begin...photos to follow...stay tuned...joe 












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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

Im assuming with the head and tail stock your cutting and adding 2 pieces for 
each, one each side of the middle 

Bill

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2015 12:31 AM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

 

hey bill!...getting down to the stressful stuff now...the work till now has 
been a fairly simple cut and weld operation...with the jigs i made, really no 
chance to mess things up...but now there is no room for error in doing the head 
stock and tail stock...everything must line up perfectly...and then the gear 
train, which if i can't get that to work properly, i might as well toss the 
mill in the garbage...bolting the mill to the floor is great if you can do it, 
but building a base would also solve any flexing issues anyone might 
encounter...thanks for the reply...more to come soon...joe



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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Tim Krause]

You must have a model 1000.  Those where offset.

-Tim

  - Original Message - 
  From: Dexter Bland 
  To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 09, 2015 12:00 PM
  Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy


  Joe, I have a question for you.
  Are you assuming that the spindle is centered in the machine or have you 
verified that with actually measuring? The reason I ask is that my machine is 
not exactly centered. The reason I know this is I turned my tail- stock over so 
I could get to the bolts from the top instead of normally from underneath. When 
I did that, my head and tail-stock were out of alignment. To fix this I also 
rolled the tail-stock and reinstalled the quick-release tail-stock components 
to face the proper direction. I'm not sure if this small difference will 
present any problem, but I thought I would bring it to your attention.

  For what it's worth, both you and Curt should be working in somebodies R&D 
section. You both ask the "what if" question all the time and usually come back 
with the answer of "why not". Amazing work.
  DB

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[CURTIS GEORGE]

HI Guys. 
on the 1000ex the center is not center of the rails like Dexter stated, but on 
the newer models the center is . Joe as far as I see it, Center or not, as long 
as the tail and head are on the same plane (perhaps that's not the right word? 
but they must be the same.c. point with each-other, but where that is on the 
machine really dose not matter.) ;-) 
Joe have you though of making your Legacy work like a Wood Chuck, and go for 
the height? Your added width couldn't hurt, but if you keep the stock 
stationary and raise and lower the router, it might help you out with your some 
of the problems you are thinking about...? Just my two cents worth of it. ;-) 
Keep up the good work Joe. "Dam the torpedoes ! full speed a-head!" 
C.A.G. 


- Original Message -

From: "'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills" 
 
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
Cc: mwfos...@earthlink.net 
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2015 3:24:22 PM 
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy 

in the "for what it's worth" department...just did some calculations and i am 
not going to get lucky with the gear train as far as it not needing any 
modifications...not even close...seems the new measurement from the head stock 
center to the center of the lead screw is 15", give or take...and of course 
that changes a bit as the bed height is adjusted...the original measurement was 
approximately 11"...so it seems i need to lengthen the carriage 4"+/-...but 
only the section from the idler pin to the lead screw bushing...nothing is 
changing from the idler pin to the head stock...seems i need to chop up that 
second gear carriage...bit nervous about doing that,since that is no longer an 
available part... but at this point have nothing to lose...god hates a coward, 
as the saying goes!...joe 




















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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

hi dexter!...when i first purchased my machines,i never verified whether 
the head stock and tail stock were in alignment, as far as front to back 
goes(not up and down)...when i modified my tail stock with a delta 
woodworking tail stock from one of their lathes, i purchased a double morse 
taper and used it to line up the head stock with the tail stock before 
putting everything together, so i assume all was good by doing that...but 
now i have cut up the head stocks( i have two, the second is for the 
spindle drive motor) and the tail stock to widen them to fit the modified 
mill...i will be taking great care to center everything... but as i have 
found out by reassembling the machine, not everything that was cut and 
lengthened is dead on, even though jigs were used to re-assemble...but i 
will say it is very,very close and certainly within acceptable 
tolerances...but the centering is very much on my mind...there is a bit of 
adjust ability built into my tail stock mod, so i can fall back on that if 
anything goes wrong...thanks for mentioning it...and thanks for the 
compliment...please mention anything i might have missed...it's a big 
help...joe "call me rube" biunno


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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

in the "for what it's worth" department...just did some calculations and i 
am not going to get lucky with the gear train as far as it not needing any 
modifications...not even close...seems the new measurement from the head 
stock center to the center of the lead screw is 15", give or take...and of 
course that changes a bit as the bed height is adjusted...the original 
measurement was approximately 11"...so it seems i need to lengthen the 
carriage 4"+/-...but only the section from the idler pin to the lead screw 
bushing...nothing is changing from the idler pin to the head stock...seems 
i need to chop up that second gear carriage...bit nervous about doing 
that,since that is no longer an available part... but at this point have 
nothing to lose...god hates a coward, as the saying goes!...joe


>  

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Dexter Bland]

Joe, I have a question for you.
Are you assuming that the spindle is centered in the machine or have you 
verified that with actually measuring? The reason I ask is that my machine 
is not exactly centered. The reason I know this is I turned my tail- stock 
over so I could get to the bolts from the top instead of normally from 
underneath. When I did that, my head and tail-stock were out of alignment. 
To fix this I also rolled the tail-stock and reinstalled the quick-release 
tail-stock components to face the proper direction. I'm not sure if this 
small difference will present any problem, but I thought I would bring it 
to your attention.
 
For what it's worth, both you and Curt should be working in somebodies R&D 
section. You both ask the "what if" question all the time and usually come 
back with the answer of "why not". Amazing work.
DB

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[MWF]

Joe,Check your "Family Tree" - I'm confident you are very closely related to Rube Goldberg!  ;-)   You do amazing things with your ingenuity.Keep them coming - we enjoy seeing the results.Mac-Original Message-
From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
Sent: Feb 9, 2015 12:03 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

mike...thanks for the reply...it seems i am in a bit of a situation in regards to the gear train...it needs to be lengthened to a certain amount...adding too much could cause a whole series of other issues...without making a physical mock up( a decent amount of work), i have worked out the requirements to be this- i widened the machine a total of 7 3/4"...since the gear train works from the head stock center line out to the lead screw, the 7 3/4" measurement is cut in half to 3 7/8"...so i only need to make up 3 7/8"...in my wildest machinery modification dreams, i don't have to do anything to the gear train as there is enough adjustment to make up the 3 7/8" using any gear combination...okay, fantasy over, reality checks in...since i do have another gear train assembly, the idea is to slice and reassemble a longer gear train assembly, using the existing 2 1/2" gear that has the washers on either side of it and a 2 1/2" gear from the extra gear set i have...i just did a quick mock up and here are some photos...photo #1 shows a stock legacy gear assembly...photo #2 shows the same with a typical gear set up...photo #3 shows my idea to modify the gear train(no additional gears)...and photo #4 shows the modified gear train with a typical gear set up...using the two 2 1/2" gears will actually give me a total of 5" additional length when in fact i need only 3 7/8"...i am hoping that extra 1 1/8" will not be an issue...but this set up is the easier way out and not that difficult to make...just some careful cutting and welding and it's done...need to keep this aspect of this mod as simple as possible...if i did not have all the extra parts and gears than i certainly would consider setting up a timing belt as you have suggested...it actually could be better to do that than using the legacy gears, i just don't know...let's see how it works out...thanks for the reply, keep 'em coming!...joe








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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Okla Mike (Liltwisted)]

One thing you may consider is to create a 1:1 extension with a chain or 
timing gilmer belt system.  This will give you a drag free drive but 
will bee closer to your gear train requirments.  The other thing you 
could do is add another gear post.  The directional gear direction would 
be the only change, the right gear would be left and the left, right.  
But would be easy to keep straight.


Mike
OK



On 2/9/2015 7:30 AM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote:
hey bill!...getting down to the stressful stuff now...the work till 
now has been a fairly simple cut and weld operation...with the jigs i 
made, really no chance to mess things up...but now there is no room 
for error in doing the head stock and tail stock...everything must 
line up perfectly...and then the gear train, which if i can't get that 
to work properly, i might as well toss the mill in the 
garbage...bolting the mill to the floor is great if you can do it, but 
building a base would also solve any flexing issues anyone might 
encounter...thanks for the reply...more to come soon...joe



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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

hey bill!...getting down to the stressful stuff now...the work till now has 
been a fairly simple cut and weld operation...with the jigs i made, really 
no chance to mess things up...but now there is no room for error in doing 
the head stock and tail stock...everything must line up perfectly...and 
then the gear train, which if i can't get that to work properly, i might as 
well toss the mill in the garbage...bolting the mill to the floor is great 
if you can do it, but building a base would also solve any flexing issues 
anyone might encounter...thanks for the reply...more to come soon...joe


 

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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

If you’re going to have your mill mobile I totally agree, but mine is bolted to 
the floor I have the space

Bill

 

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, 9 February 2015 3:49 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

 

also wanted to mention that an important aspect in lengthening and widening 
this mill was the base and it's inherent strength and how rigid it is...i would 
strongly suggest to any mill owner to build a base for their machine, 
regardless of what length it is... and if made properly, you will never 
experience any twist or flex to your mill, even on an uneven floor...the floors 
in our shop are very uneven(in one corner we are out of level by 12"!!!) and 
there are times when we move the mill, that one of the four wheels on the base 
will be off the floor, due to the floor being out of level...the base will not 
flex to meet the floor...this provides a very high confidence level that when 
reassembling the mill, as good a tolerance level as possible can be had, even 
as good as before the mill was extended and widened...something i wanted to put 
out there and something i think a mill owner should consider doing...joe

 

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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

Last mod your just warming up lol

Bill

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, 9 February 2015 3:35 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

 

another progress report...on a late sunday night no less...i'm in the shop 
because of a winter storm watch and will sleep here to avoid a traveling 
headaches in the morning...i must be crazy because i do this often...but 
without interruptions, i do get a lot done...anyway, the first photo shows a 
piece of 1" baltic birch added to the top of the base we originally made when 
the mill was extended...total of 3 pieces, 43", 96" and 43"(mill is 16 ft. 
long, but less 5" on each end for the bed-height crank wheels)...again, as 
always, consideration made when it might be necessary to disassemble the 
machine and move it...so the three pieces disassemble easily...the 96" piece 
covers the center seam of the base so there is a strength and level improvement 
here...the width of the new top was calculated to be 1/8" less than the widened 
mill, front and back so as not to interfere with any accessories or work pieces 
when milling on the front of the machine...second photo shows the underside of 
the top as it is overhanging the base and how we used joint fasteners to hold 
the three pieces together...we use these often in our work and found them to be 
ideal for the task at hand...there are also plywood strips added to the bottom 
of the tops to align the new top to the base...tomorrow we begin to reassemble 
the machine...head stocks and tail stock are cut, but still need to cut and fit 
pieces to widen them...probably will have all that done and welded by the end 
of the week...unless i'm snowed in!, then it will be done sooner!...LOL...time 
to get some sleep...all comments welcome...joe"this is my last mod" biunno

 

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

also wanted to mention that an important aspect in lengthening and widening 
this mill was the base and it's inherent strength and how rigid it is...i 
would strongly suggest to any mill owner to build a base for their machine, 
regardless of what length it is... and if made properly, you will never 
experience any twist or flex to your mill, even on an uneven floor...the 
floors in our shop are very uneven(in one corner we are out of level by 
12"!!!) and there are times when we move the mill, that one of the four 
wheels on the base will be off the floor, due to the floor being out of 
level...the base will not flex to meet the floor...this provides a very 
high confidence level that when reassembling the mill, as good a tolerance 
level as possible can be had, even as good as before the mill was extended 
and widened...something i wanted to put out there and something i think a 
mill owner should consider doing...joe


>>  

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Okla Mike (Liltwisted)]

Angelic music "AH" Looks Good, this 
going to be a machine for the record books for sure!

Mike
OK

On 2/5/2015 5:17 PM, 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills wrote:
ok, here's a progress report for those that are interested and those 
who need to reload on the the sarcasm...LOL...14 vertical riser 
brackets, extended and completed, with lengthened slots for bed height 
adjusters...two bed risers done(will lengthen threaded screws when 
mill is reassembled)...two bottom, center cross braces done...will 
begin reassembly tomorrow...tail stock and head stock will get done 
next, after the mill is reassembled...gear train brackets will be done 
last...little, minor things, like the "Y" axis rails lengthened, my 
spindle drive set up tweaked a bit, some legacy accessories modified 
as necessary, and a few others, will be done shortly...all comments 
welcome...thanks...joe




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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

Looks good as always keep the posts coming I for one am greatly interested in 
this mod

Bill

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, 6 February 2015 10:17 AM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

 

ok, here's a progress report for those that are interested and those who need 
to reload on the the sarcasm...LOL...14 vertical riser brackets, extended and 
completed, with lengthened slots for bed height adjusters...two bed risers 
done(will lengthen threaded screws when mill is reassembled)...two bottom, 
center cross braces done...will begin reassembly tomorrow...tail stock and head 
stock will get done next, after the mill is reassembled...gear train brackets 
will be done last...little, minor things, like the "Y" axis rails lengthened, 
my spindle drive set up tweaked a bit, some legacy accessories modified as 
necessary, and a few others, will be done shortly...all comments 
welcome...thanks...joe

 

 

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

ok, here's a progress report for those that are interested and those who 
need to reload on the the sarcasm...LOL...14 vertical riser brackets, 
extended and completed, with lengthened slots for bed height 
adjusters...two bed risers done(will lengthen threaded screws when mill is 
reassembled)...two bottom, center cross braces done...will begin reassembly 
tomorrow...tail stock and head stock will get done next, after the mill is 
reassembled...gear train brackets will be done last...little, minor things, 
like the "Y" axis rails lengthened, my spindle drive set up tweaked a bit, 
some legacy accessories modified as necessary, and a few others, will be 
done shortly...all comments welcome...thanks...joe


>  
>>  

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

bill,
   i knew i had to lengthen the gear carriage before i began this mod, 
because i was widening the machine, but what i failed to realize, and what 
slipped my thought process, was that adding to the height would also cause 
a need to further modify the gear carriage...if the solution is to make up 
two sets of add-on gears, than so be it...but i was briefly messing around 
with the gears today and i think i will be fine with one set for all 
applications...an actual mock up will answer all concerns and i will get to 
that in the near future...i was just commenting that sometimes things come 
to me later, rather than sooner...thanks for your input...much 
appreciated...joe


 
>  

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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

I believe I did mention the gears and their linkage before you started your mod

Bill

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, 30 January 2015 9:32 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

 

random stuff...laying in bed, thinking about this mod and something suddenly 
came to me...because of the increase of the height of the machine, the distance 
from the lead screw to the center line of the head stock, when the bed is 
adjusted for the maximum diameter, is increased...is this going to be a problem 
for the carriage?...even though i am lengthening the carriage...would i even 
need the gear carriage if i am turning such a large diameter piece?...i do have 
a spindle drive motor set up to independently turn a work piece, so no need for 
the carriage there...but what if i want to do a twist on a large piece?...i 
never considered the potential change to the gear carriage length due to the 
height change in my preliminary layout to all this work...i do miss things from 
time to time...been able to work out the other misses with no issues, hope i 
don't get tagged on this one...anyway, just some random stuff...as a new work 
day begins!...later...joe





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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

random stuff...laying in bed, thinking about this mod and something 
suddenly came to me...because of the increase of the height of the machine, 
the distance from the lead screw to the center line of the head stock, when 
the bed is adjusted for the maximum diameter, is increased...is this going 
to be a problem for the carriage?...even though i am lengthening the 
carriage...would i even need the gear carriage if i am turning such a large 
diameter piece?...i do have a spindle drive motor set up to independently 
turn a work piece, so no need for the carriage there...but what if i want 
to do a twist on a large piece?...i never considered the potential change 
to the gear carriage length due to the height change in my preliminary 
layout to all this work...i do miss things from time to time...been able to 
work out the other misses with no issues, hope i don't get tagged on this 
one...anyway, just some random stuff...as a new work day 
begins!...later...joe


>
>
>  

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

thanks for the compliments, guys...will do my best to take as many photos 
as possible but sometimes i forget to take them while a job is in 
progress...certainly if anyone would like more info, reply on this format 
or send me a private message...working on the bed risers now, a good amount 
of prep work...photos soon...thanks...joe



 

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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

I forgot to add might be a good thing to keep a visual record of each step of 
this mod for a possible entry in  ornamentalmills.com  if it works out well, it 
would help if anybody else wanted to do similar

To their mill one day.

It would of coarse be up to Tim to decide but I thought I would just mention  
it now in the early stage of your mod

Bill

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, 30 January 2015 7:51 AM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

 

another update...minor as it might be...these small updates will give a look 
into the process involved to get this mod done...first photo shows a piece of 
plywood that would represent the maximum diameter that would fit into the 
modified legacy...whether it be a center pedestal to a table base or perhaps a 
faceplate turning...the plywood is 19 3/8" in diameter...the bed rails in this 
photo are not at the center line of the plywood, as they normally would 
be...this is just a mock up for now...the second photo is generally the same as 
the first, but shown is a cardboard template of what a gusset would look like, 
if i decide they are necessary...i am leaning towards making them, 
regardless...they would bolt in place while assembling the machine and not 
interfere with any other assembly procedure or hinder access to any 
screws...should do an excellent job of helping keep the vertical supports 90 
degrees to the frame...only four brackets(2 per center cross brace) are needed, 
as the bed risers are adequate for the ends of the machine...all straight 
cuts(no curves!) so fabrication is a snap...in the second photo you can see i 
lowered the bed rail on the left to the approximate center point( i simply 
flipped the bed rail support bracket, so it is upside down...thought i would 
mention it before mac did!...LOL!)...i have not yet milled the slot 
longer...that will be done later, all together, after all remaining supports 
are cut and welded...spending limited time,daily, on this project, so progress 
is slow but steady...thanks...joe



 

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[CURTIS GEORGE]

;-) Good job JOE! keep up the good work. 


C.A.G. 

- Original Message -

From: "Bill Bulkeley"  
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 7:31:07 PM 
Subject: RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy 



Slow and steady wins the race! You may beat curt to making his spiral telegraph 
pole looks good 

Bill 






From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, 30 January 2015 7:51 AM 
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy 





another update...minor as it might be...these small updates will give a look 
into the process involved to get this mod done...first photo shows a piece of 
plywood that would represent the maximum diameter that would fit into the 
modified legacy...whether it be a center pedestal to a table base or perhaps a 
faceplate turning...the plywood is 19 3/8" in diameter...the bed rails in this 
photo are not at the center line of the plywood, as they normally would 
be...this is just a mock up for now...the second photo is generally the same as 
the first, but shown is a cardboard template of what a gusset would look like, 
if i decide they are necessary...i am leaning towards making them, 
regardless...they would bolt in place while assembling the machine and not 
interfere with any other assembly procedure or hinder access to any 
screws...should do an excellent job of helping keep the vertical supports 90 
degrees to the frame...only four brackets(2 per center cross brace) are needed, 
as the bed risers are adequate for the ends of the machine...all straight 
cuts(no curves!) so fabrication is a snap...in the second photo you can see i 
lowered the bed rail on the left to the approximate center point( i simply 
flipped the bed rail support bracket, so it is upside down...thought i would 
mention it before mac did!...LOL!)...i have not yet milled the slot 
longer...that will be done later, all together, after all remaining supports 
are cut and welded...spending limited time,daily, on this project, so progress 
is slow but steady...thanks...joe 






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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

Slow and steady wins the race! You may beat curt to making his spiral telegraph 
pole looks good

Bill 

 

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, 30 January 2015 7:51 AM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

 

another update...minor as it might be...these small updates will give a look 
into the process involved to get this mod done...first photo shows a piece of 
plywood that would represent the maximum diameter that would fit into the 
modified legacy...whether it be a center pedestal to a table base or perhaps a 
faceplate turning...the plywood is 19 3/8" in diameter...the bed rails in this 
photo are not at the center line of the plywood, as they normally would 
be...this is just a mock up for now...the second photo is generally the same as 
the first, but shown is a cardboard template of what a gusset would look like, 
if i decide they are necessary...i am leaning towards making them, 
regardless...they would bolt in place while assembling the machine and not 
interfere with any other assembly procedure or hinder access to any 
screws...should do an excellent job of helping keep the vertical supports 90 
degrees to the frame...only four brackets(2 per center cross brace) are needed, 
as the bed risers are adequate for the ends of the machine...all straight 
cuts(no curves!) so fabrication is a snap...in the second photo you can see i 
lowered the bed rail on the left to the approximate center point( i simply 
flipped the bed rail support bracket, so it is upside down...thought i would 
mention it before mac did!...LOL!)...i have not yet milled the slot 
longer...that will be done later, all together, after all remaining supports 
are cut and welded...spending limited time,daily, on this project, so progress 
is slow but steady...thanks...joe



 

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Tim Krause]

This is looking great! Go Joe!

-Tim

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

hey bill,
   to be honest that did not occur to me until i was well into 
the project...i have yet to do any flat work on the legacy so it is not 
something i normally think about...the machine will have a capacity of 
almost 23"...anyway, i still have to finish it before i can use it...stay 
tuned...and thanks for the input...joe


 
>  
>
>  

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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

Very impressive so far joe boy one thing I didn’t think of you will have a 
fantastic mill for flat stock work as well 

Bill

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 29 January 2015 7:45 AM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

 

showing some photos of a quick mock up i did to see how things are coming along 
and to take some measurements...photos show a cross section of what will be the 
enlarged diameter legacy...the measurement between the bed rails(the middle 
rails) is 19 3/8", exact...from the cross brace at the bottom to the bottom of 
the "Y"axis( did not have a long enough piece of rail for the mock up so i 
ganged up what i had) rail is 19 5/8", exact...from this mock up i determined 
that i need to lengthen the slot for the bed rail supports about 2", so the 
tail stock can be at the center point of the 19 3/8"...i'll go a bit more just 
to be sure...i will also cut a piece of plywood into a 19 3/8" circle and place 
it inside and see if it is practical to make some gussets to go between the 
cross braces and the vertical supports for some added stability...they would be 
a bolt on piece...might not need them though, i'll wait till the entire machine 
is assembled and do a check...so far so good, but a lot of work ahead...all 
comments welcome...joe

 

 

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

hey curtis!
thanks for the compliment...in regards to the rail for the 
"Y" axis, it will not be a set up as shown in the photos...the linear 
bearings currently on my "Y" axis is set up for the legacy rail, so 
switching rails at this point is something i do not want to deal with...i 
will be splicing only two pieces of rail together to achieve the length i 
need...the linear rail should do a sufficient job of supporting the "Z" 
carriage and keeping the two pieces together...and i do have a plan for 
additional strength if needed...a piece of 1 1/2" X 1/8" steel on the 
underside of the rail, which is what is on the top of the rail...then there 
is the rigidity of the linear rail itself...between the three, i feel 
confident the rail will not be an issue...i have seen the 80/20 web site 
and it is good stuff, but i am going to stick with the legacy material , at 
least for now...believe it or not, don't have any need for additional rail 
for any future mod that might currently be on the back burner...but i will 
take a more in depth look into the 80/20 stuff...thanks for the input...joe



>
>  
>>  
>>>
>
>

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[CURTIS GEORGE]

Awespome job!  IF I  may suggest to you that you buy a new 80/20 rails for the 
Y axis, that way you do not have to join the alum. rails to make the carraige 
unit's Y axis any longer/wider. I belive that rail is close enough to make the 
Carraige and the Z axis work? In my way of thinking,Your weak link is the rail. 
It couldnt hurt to look into it. ;-) 
C.A.G. 

- Original Message -

From: "'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills" 
 
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 3:44:34 PM 
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy 

showing some photos of a quick mock up i did to see how things are coming along 
and to take some measurements...photos show a cross section of what will be the 
enlarged diameter legacy...the measurement between the bed rails(the middle 
rails) is 19 3/8", exact...from the cross brace at the bottom to the bottom of 
the "Y"axis( did not have a long enough piece of rail for the mock up so i 
ganged up what i had) rail is 19 5/8", exact...from this mock up i determined 
that i need to lengthen the slot for the bed rail supports about 2", so the 
tail stock can be at the center point of the 19 3/8"...i'll go a bit more just 
to be sure...i will also cut a piece of plywood into a 19 3/8" circle and place 
it inside and see if it is practical to make some gussets to go between the 
cross braces and the vertical supports for some added stability...they would be 
a bolt on piece...might not need them though, i'll wait till the entire machine 
is assembled and do a check...so far so good, but a lot of work ahead...all 
comments welcome...joe 
















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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

bill,
 i don't anticipate doing spirals on a big piece but that does not mean 
i won't ever have a need to do them...i would like to keep my options 
open...and build another 16 ft. mill?...i don't think so...this is a one 
and done machine for me...and i will admit, to do an 18" column 15 ft. long 
might not work on this equipment...but a 16" piece, 9 ft. long is certainly 
doable with no major concerns...legacy's model 2000 could do 13" by 11 ft. 
with no issues...and to be honest, the headaches are already 
here...LOL...but i will do what is necessary to solve them, one at 
time...this project was thought out over a considerable amount of time... 
 i did miss a few issues here and there, but nothing that caused me to 
consider abandoning the work...not yet!...so we continue...thanks...joe

>
>  

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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

If you never intend to spiral and only flute the larger dia work ,I would have 
simply built another whole mill to accommodate the large dia it would only have 
to turn the work and index it, all easy things to obtain. I seem to remember 
someone on the group doing that a few years back with success I believe you are 
in for many headaches to come with this mod but as i said before it will 
defiantly be cool to see if you can

Bill

 

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Krause
Sent: Wednesday, 28 January 2015 3:24 AM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

 

"Changing the formula" in the sense that making the machine wider helps the 
diameter, but the spindle will have to drop 8 inches or a little more to get a 
16" piece.  The other way to think is also to raise the y axis some.  A model 
would show all the issues.  Regarding the drive train, I'm guessing you will 
have a 15" distance beween your acme drive screw and the headstock.  You're 
right in thinking adding one or two idler gears will solve the problem.   
You're on the right path. 

 

-Tim

 

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

tim,
  i calculated things as follows...the machine currently is capable of 
11 5/8", inside of the bed rails...i am shooting for 18" so i thought 6 
1/2" should get me there...but when you are doing an 18" piece, your rough 
glue up will be bigger, of course...so i did want a bit more...so i went 
for 8" pieces(nice round number) that wound up to be 7 13/16", after 
squaring of the ends on a sanding machine...so my finished, exact, maximum 
diameter size will be(drum roll please...LOL) 19 7/16"  between the bed 
rails...did consider raising the "Y" carriage but i would still need to do 
the work i am doing now, so i wanted to keep it simple and avoid any 
additional work(did i really just say that?)...currently the distance 
between the headstock center and the lead screw center is 10 5/8" +/-...add 
half of the 7 13/16" and the new dimension is 14 1/2" +/-, just like you 
said...the idler gear on the legacy gear train is 2 9/16" in diameter...i 
have an extra from my donor machine and an added plus that it is already 
set up on a piece of the gear train "U" channel...stole the matching 2 
9/16" gear from the extra set of pitch gears(didn't like doing that!), i 
have, adding the small ball bearing to it and hopefully this will work to 
compensate for the added length to the gear train...so the line up would 
be-pitch gear on lead screw,current idler gear(with the large washers on 
it),the new pitch gear(no washers),new idler gear(with washers), then the 
gear that goes on the 3/8" pin at the center of the gear carriage...i am 
about 1 1/4" longer than i need be, but i hope the adjustments in the gear 
train will compensate for this...figured i had to add two gears so there 
would be no chance of any gear slipping off another gear, so long as those 
double washers do their job...reversing a spiral still remains the same, 
just take out the first idler and put in the reverse gear set up...it all 
sounds good in theory and on paper but making it happen is going to be a 
big job...thanks for taking the time to respond and encouragement...i need 
it!...joe


 
>

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Tim Krause]

"Changing the formula" in the sense that making the machine wider helps the 
diameter, but the spindle will have to drop 8 inches or a little more to get a 
16" piece.  The other way to think is also to raise the y axis some.  A model 
would show all the issues.  Regarding the drive train, I'm guessing you will 
have a 15" distance beween your acme drive screw and the headstock.  You're 
right in thinking adding one or two idler gears will solve the problem.   
You're on the right path. 

-Tim

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

tim,
 can you be a bit more specific when you say"changing the formula"?...i 
do understand that if i complete the mod and i am turning a 16" diameter 
piece, how the rate of feed from the lead screw will be much different than 
if i was turning a 4" diameter piece...but are there other surprises in 
store for me?...my intentions for doing this work is to be able to turn 
large diameter pieces and also possibly flute and/or reed them as 
well...can't imagine ever doing a twist on a 16" piece, unless i start 
doing some artistic work, which is also something i have 
considered...otherwise, i just raise the bed to a position of what it is 
now and use the machine as i have been currently using it...and i do intend 
to widen the tailstock,headstock and the bed risers(and anything else, if 
necessary) to achieve the 18"+/-  capacity...a lot of work, for sure...i 
 started with the easy stuff, like the vertical supports, and that is 
turning out to be more than i anticipated...the worst is yet to come and 
that is why i still feel a bit nervous in doing all of this...but i have 
made a commitment, so onward we go!...thanks for your input, it is 
appreciated...joe...p.s. i went back to my posts and "cleaned" them up a 
bit...it seems to have worked, but that is on my end...are you saying that 
when anyone clicks on a comment, they are still going to see the other 
posts as well?...that stinks...sorry


 
>  
>
>
>

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Tim Krause]

The "Trim your posts" is a note to the people whom primarily use email and have 
long trails of quotes that are not needed to add to the conversation.  You just 
delete that portion of your message. You cannot go back and edit out long 
quotes in google groups.  Even as an owner of the group I can only delete a 
message.  

I've made 2", 3" and 4" lift kits in the past.  The problem quickly became the 
width of the machine and the position of the spindle only allowing about 11" to 
be turned.  What case I did not plan for in the 3"and 4" additional height is 
people where looking to be able to  put larger pieces on the bed.  The added 
height had nothing to do with the diameter.  By making the machine wider your 
changing the formula of how things work.  That's why I asked how much wider 
your machine is to look at a quick cad model to see what you are going to get.

-Tim

 
  - Original Message - 
  From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
  To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 1:34 AM
  Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy


  tim,
   haven't lengthened the slot that the bed support bracket slides in...not 
yet, anyway...wasn't sure if it was going to be necessary...some preliminary 
calculations said maybe not, but now that the prototype is done, i see that the 
slot needs to be lengthened about 3"...but that is why i cut the original 
legacy support where i did...it will allow me to lengthen the slot certainly 
more than would be necessary, even after the pieces are welded together...and 
the machine will be enlarged by 8" +/-...i'm not sure i know how to trim the 
posts...are you referring to the fact that with every reply, previous replies 
are posted with it?...i agree, that is annoying...i'll experiment a bit to 
correct that, but not sure how to do it...can i go back to previous replies and 
edit them to not include to extra posts?...clean things up a bit, so to 
speak...thanks for the reply...joe

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

bill,
  not sure about the gear train reaching...i am increasing the machine 
by 8", but that gets cut in half to 4" since the gear train works from the 
center line out to the lead screw...but i have worked out what i need to do 
if it needs to be lengthened...and i have all the necessary gears and parts 
to do it as leftovers from the second machine used for the original 
extension...but hoping that work will not be necessary as this mod will be 
taking more time than i expected...we'll see how it goes...thanks for the 
reply...joe


 
>  
>
>   
>  
>
>
>  

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

tim, figured out how to clean up the posts...thanks for the suggestion...joe

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

tim,
 haven't lengthened the slot that the bed support bracket slides 
in...not yet, anyway...wasn't sure if it was going to be necessary...some 
preliminary calculations said maybe not, but now that the prototype is 
done, i see that the slot needs to be lengthened about 3"...but that is why 
i cut the original legacy support where i did...it will allow me to 
lengthen the slot certainly more than would be necessary, even after the 
pieces are welded together...and the machine will be enlarged by 8" 
+/-...i'm not sure i know how to trim the posts...are you referring to the 
fact that with every reply, previous replies are posted with it?...i agree, 
that is annoying...i'll experiment a bit to correct that, but not sure how 
to do it...can i go back to previous replies and edit them to not include 
to extra posts?...clean things up a bit, so to speak...thanks for the 
reply...joe

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

hey mac,
  you are correct...generally, the largest pole we do is 3" in 
diameter...but we also make furniture...and i can see( and have made in the 
past) a turned and fluted column for a center pedestal table...and we have 
done the type where the column splits in half when the table opens for 
leaves, with a support leg hiding in the center of the column...we 
currently have estimated to make a fluted column 96" long, with a 16" to 
18" taper, split in two as it needs to cover an 8" X 8" steel I beam in the 
client's family room...so there is an occasional use for an enlarged 
machine...rare as it may be...the other side of the coin is that i enjoy 
doing things like this...the bigger the challenge, the better the reward, 
so to speak...legacy was close to the spec's of my 
hopefully-to-be-completed machine when they produced the 2000...i just took 
it a little bit further...anyway, this mod is going to be some ride!...joe

On Tuesday, January 27, 2015 at 12:07:18 AM UTC-5, Va Oak wrote:
>
> Joe,
> As I read Bill's comments - I got to thinking:  Months ago you told us 
> your business was essentially making "custom drapery rods".  
> In MY mind, drapery rods are no bigger around than maybe THREE INCHES - 
> MAXIMUM!!  Yes - some may be 16 feet LONG - but NOT 16" in diameter.
> Are you now producing them for "The Giant's Castle" from "Jack and the 
> Beanstalk" or perhaps a "Gulliver-esque" theme park?
> I'm beginning to think that you are going to try to land a contract to 
> replace the huge columns on The White House.  ;-)
>
> On a serious note:  Why this apparent change in direction of your business 
> model?
>
> I gotta admit - you keep us both educated AND entertained.
> Thanks for the continuing updates - I do enjoy & appreciate them.
> Mac
> --
> --------------
>
> -----Original Message- 
> From: Bill Bulkeley 
> Sent: Jan 26, 2015 11:24 PM 
> To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com  
> Subject: RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy 
>
>  Very nice i will be interested to see if the gear linkages will still 
>  reach to fit all the gears when finished
>
> This will really extend the size of work you will be able to do
>
> Bill
>
>  
>  
> *From:* legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com ] 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 27 January 2015 12:54 PM
> *To:* legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com 
> *Subject:* enlarging turning capacity of a legacy
>  
>  
>  
> starting a separate discussion  regarding enlarging the turning capacity 
> of my legacy, as i have decided to proceed with this project...although, i 
> am still a bit nervous about this mod...what you are looking at are the 
> prototypes of the vertical supports and the cross braces...the vertical 
> supports were easy enough...some 2" X 3". cold rolled steel is a very nice 
> match...the width is the same as the legacy piece, the depth about 3/16" 
> deeper than the legacy piece, but that does not matter... and leaving it a 
> full, rectangular tube will only make the whole support stronger...i cut 
> the legacy support in such a way that if i need to lengthen the vertical 
> slot(where the bed support brace attaches), i can always do that later once 
> i mock everything up...this work was a simple cut and weld procedure...the 
> cross brace was done in a similar fashion but i had to cut a section out of 
> the 2 X 3 tubing lengthwise and weld it back together again, so it matched 
> the width of the brace...a bit more work than the support, but it came out 
> well...everything goes back together as legacy originally intended it to 
> do...a bit relieved these two pieces came out as well as they did, but it 
> took more time than i anticipated and with many more pieces i have left to 
> do, this is going to be a longer project than i originally thought...any 
> and all comments welcome...and you all can save the "joe, you must be 
> crazy" comments, as i already know that!...thanks...joe
>  
>
>   

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Tim Krause]

Joe, 

Am I seeing this right, you added height to the legs, but didn't increase the 
slot for the bed?  How much wider will the machine be?

-Tim

PS, trim your posts to be nice to the folks using digest mode.
  - Original Message - 
  From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
  To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 6:26 PM
  Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy


  and in the "oops, i didn't think of that" department...did not consider that 
enlarging the turning capacity of the machine would also increase the height of 
the machine...too embarrassed to say what the height to the "Y" axis cross rail 
will be, but rest assured it is up there!...have a few ideas to address this, 
but any one of them is a big PITA!...stay tuned...just thought i would get that 
out there before anyone else brought it up...on another note, if ever i need 
to, i figure i can always lay some blankets between the rails and make a bed if 
ever i am in the proverbial dog house!...joe

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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[mwfoscue]

Joe,As I read Bill's comments - I got to thinking:  Months ago you told us your business was essentially making "custom drapery rods".  In MY mind, drapery rods are no bigger around than maybe THREE INCHES - MAXIMUM!!  Yes - some may be 16 feet LONG - but NOT 16" in diameter.Are you now producing them for "The Giant's Castle" from "Jack and the Beanstalk" or perhaps a "Gulliver-esque" theme park?I'm beginning to think that you are going to try to land a contract to replace the huge columns on The White House.  ;-)On a serious note:  Why this apparent change in direction of your business model?I gotta admit - you keep us both educated AND entertained.Thanks for the continuing updates - I do enjoy & appreciate them.Mac-Original Message-
From: Bill Bulkeley 
Sent: Jan 26, 2015 11:24 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy








 

 
  
 






Very nice i will be interested to see if the
gear linkages will still  reach to fit all the gears when finished

This will really extend the size of work you
will be able to do

Bill

 



From:
legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 27 January 2015
12:54 PM
To:
legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: enlarging turning
capacity of a legacy



 



starting a separate discussion  regarding enlarging the turning
capacity of my legacy, as i have decided to proceed with this
project...although, i am still a bit nervous about this mod...what you are
looking at are the prototypes of the vertical supports and the cross
braces...the vertical supports were easy enough...some 2" X 3". cold
rolled steel is a very nice match...the width is the same as the legacy piece,
the depth about 3/16" deeper than the legacy piece, but that does not
matter... and leaving it a full, rectangular tube will only make the whole
support stronger...i cut the legacy support in such a way that if i need to
lengthen the vertical slot(where the bed support brace attaches), i can always
do that later once i mock everything up...this work was a simple cut and weld
procedure...the cross brace was done in a similar fashion but i had to cut a
section out of the 2 X 3 tubing lengthwise and weld it back together again, so
it matched the width of the brace...a bit more work than the support, but it
came out well...everything goes back together as legacy originally intended it
to do...a bit relieved these two pieces came out as well as they did, but it
took more time than i anticipated and with many more pieces i have left to do,
this is going to be a longer project than i originally thought...any and all
comments welcome...and you all can save the "joe, you must be crazy"
comments, as i already know that!...thanks...joe


















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RE: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[Bill Bulkeley]

Very nice i will be interested to see if the gear linkages will still  reach to 
fit all the gears when finished

This will really extend the size of work you will be able to do

Bill

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 27 January 2015 12:54 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

 

starting a separate discussion  regarding enlarging the turning capacity of my 
legacy, as i have decided to proceed with this project...although, i am still a 
bit nervous about this mod...what you are looking at are the prototypes of the 
vertical supports and the cross braces...the vertical supports were easy 
enough...some 2" X 3". cold rolled steel is a very nice match...the width is 
the same as the legacy piece, the depth about 3/16" deeper than the legacy 
piece, but that does not matter... and leaving it a full, rectangular tube will 
only make the whole support stronger...i cut the legacy support in such a way 
that if i need to lengthen the vertical slot(where the bed support brace 
attaches), i can always do that later once i mock everything up...this work was 
a simple cut and weld procedure...the cross brace was done in a similar fashion 
but i had to cut a section out of the 2 X 3 tubing lengthwise and weld it back 
together again, so it matched the width of the brace...a bit more work than the 
support, but it came out well...everything goes back together as legacy 
originally intended it to do...a bit relieved these two pieces came out as well 
as they did, but it took more time than i anticipated and with many more pieces 
i have left to do, this is going to be a longer project than i originally 
thought...any and all comments welcome...and you all can save the "joe, you 
must be crazy" comments, as i already know that!...thanks...joe

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

ok, that was just the first salvo...i am expecting quite a bit more...it's 
all good though...keep 'em coming!...joe...LOL!

On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 9:22:19 PM UTC-5, Va Oak wrote:
>
> Joe,
>
> After your latest comments about there being no welds on the LOM - I take 
> back my comment that I suspect you used to work there.  If you had - LOTS 
> of the Mill would have been welded - you LOVE welding - and do it well!  
>  
> I'll bet you even have welded steel door frames throughout your house - 
> "just because".  And you probably have 8 foot tall by 4 foot wide door 
> frames - "bigger is better"!  ;-)
>
> Mac
> --
> --
>
> -Original Message- 
> From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
> Sent: Jan 26, 2015 9:12 PM 
> To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com  
> Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy 
>
> recently, as i was disassembling and "playing" with my machine, i noticed 
> something that never dawned on me before...there seems to be not a single 
> weld on the legacy whatsoever...i find this to be quite unique for a 
> machine as complex as this is and a major accomplishment in engineering and 
> design...not sure if it is andy, tracy or someone else's background that 
> accomplished this(or perhaps a team effort)...but i certainly tip my hat to 
> the craftsmanship that went into it...very well done and executed...must 
> have taken an incredible amountjoe of hours to work it all out...i am 
> taking a huge amount of time just to modify it, can't imagine how much time 
> it took to make it originally...
>
> On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 9:02:08 PM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:
>>
>> also considering a brace/gusset where the cross brace meets the vertical 
>> support...it would be shaped so as not to be in the way of the largest 
>> turning diameter, but be as large as possible...will determine if it is 
>> needed once the modified machine is completely reassembled...joe
>>
>> On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 8:54:09 PM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:
>>>
>>> starting a separate discussion  regarding enlarging the turning capacity 
>>> of my legacy, as i have decided to proceed with this project...although, i 
>>> am still a bit nervous about this mod...what you are looking at are the 
>>> prototypes of the vertical supports and the cross braces...the vertical 
>>> supports were easy enough...some 2" X 3". cold rolled steel is a very nice 
>>> match...the width is the same as the legacy piece, the depth about 3/16" 
>>> deeper than the legacy piece, but that does not matter... and leaving it a 
>>> full, rectangular tube will only make the whole support stronger...i cut 
>>> the legacy support in such a way that if i need to lengthen the vertical 
>>> slot(where the bed support brace attaches), i can always do that later once 
>>> i mock everything up...this work was a simple cut and weld procedure...the 
>>> cross brace was done in a similar fashion but i had to cut a section out of 
>>> the 2 X 3 tubing lengthwise and weld it back together again, so it matched 
>>> the width of the brace...a bit more work than the support, but it came out 
>>> well...everything goes back together as legacy originally intended it to 
>>> do...a bit relieved these two pieces came out as well as they did, but it 
>>> took more time than i anticipated and with many more pieces i have left to 
>>> do, this is going to be a longer project than i originally thought...any 
>>> and all comments welcome...and you all can save the "joe, you must be 
>>> crazy" comments, as i already know that!...thanks...joe...forgot to 
>>> mention...the photos are a before and after...and the added pieces of new 
>>> metal are 8" long each
>>>
>>  

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

and in the "oops, i didn't think of that" department...did not consider 
that enlarging the turning capacity of the machine would also increase the 
height of the machine...too embarrassed to say what the height to the "Y" 
axis cross rail will be, but rest assured it is up there!...have a few 
ideas to address this, but any one of them is a big PITA!...stay 
tuned...just thought i would get that out there before anyone else brought 
it up...on another note, if ever i need to, i figure i can always lay some 
blankets between the rails and make a bed if ever i am in the proverbial 
dog house!...joe

On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 9:12:24 PM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:
>
> recently, as i was disassembling and "playing" with my machine, i noticed 
> something that never dawned on me before...there seems to be not a single 
> weld on the legacy whatsoever...i find this to be quite unique for a 
> machine as complex as this is and a major accomplishment in engineering and 
> design...not sure if it is andy, tracy or someone else's background that 
> accomplished this(or perhaps a team effort)...but i certainly tip my hat to 
> the craftsmanship that went into it...very well done and executed...must 
> have taken an incredible amountjoe of hours to work it all out...i am 
> taking a huge amount of time just to modify it, can't imagine how much time 
> it took to make it originally...
>
> On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 9:02:08 PM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:
>>
>> also considering a brace/gusset where the cross brace meets the vertical 
>> support...it would be shaped so as not to be in the way of the largest 
>> turning diameter, but be as large as possible...will determine if it is 
>> needed once the modified machine is completely reassembled...joe
>>
>> On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 8:54:09 PM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:
>>>
>>> starting a separate discussion  regarding enlarging the turning capacity 
>>> of my legacy, as i have decided to proceed with this project...although, i 
>>> am still a bit nervous about this mod...what you are looking at are the 
>>> prototypes of the vertical supports and the cross braces...the vertical 
>>> supports were easy enough...some 2" X 3". cold rolled steel is a very nice 
>>> match...the width is the same as the legacy piece, the depth about 3/16" 
>>> deeper than the legacy piece, but that does not matter... and leaving it a 
>>> full, rectangular tube will only make the whole support stronger...i cut 
>>> the legacy support in such a way that if i need to lengthen the vertical 
>>> slot(where the bed support brace attaches), i can always do that later once 
>>> i mock everything up...this work was a simple cut and weld procedure...the 
>>> cross brace was done in a similar fashion but i had to cut a section out of 
>>> the 2 X 3 tubing lengthwise and weld it back together again, so it matched 
>>> the width of the brace...a bit more work than the support, but it came out 
>>> well...everything goes back together as legacy originally intended it to 
>>> do...a bit relieved these two pieces came out as well as they did, but it 
>>> took more time than i anticipated and with many more pieces i have left to 
>>> do, this is going to be a longer project than i originally thought...any 
>>> and all comments welcome...and you all can save the "joe, you must be 
>>> crazy" comments, as i already know that!...thanks...joe...forgot to 
>>> mention...the photos are a before and after...and the added pieces of new 
>>> metal are 8" long each
>>>
>>

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[mwfoscue]

Joe,After your latest comments about there being no welds on the LOM - I take back my comment that I suspect you used to work there.  If you had - LOTS of the Mill would have been welded - you LOVE welding - and do it well!   I'll bet you even have welded steel door frames throughout your house - "just because".  And you probably have 8 foot tall by 4 foot wide door frames - "bigger is better"!  ;-)Mac-Original Message-
From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
Sent: Jan 26, 2015 9:12 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

recently, as i was disassembling and "playing" with my machine, i noticed something that never dawned on me before...there seems to be not a single weld on the legacy whatsoever...i find this to be quite unique for a machine as complex as this is and a major accomplishment in engineering and design...not sure if it is andy, tracy or someone else's background that accomplished this(or perhaps a team effort)...but i certainly tip my hat to the craftsmanship that went into it...very well done and executed...must have taken an incredible amountjoe of hours to work it all out...i am taking a huge amount of time just to modify it, can't imagine how much time it took to make it originally...On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 9:02:08 PM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:also considering a brace/gusset where the cross brace meets the vertical support...it would be shaped so as not to be in the way of the largest turning diameter, but be as large as possible...will determine if it is needed once the modified machine is completely reassembled...joeOn Monday, January 26, 2015 at 8:54:09 PM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:starting a separate discussion  regarding enlarging the turning capacity of my legacy, as i have decided to proceed with this project...although, i am still a bit nervous about this mod...what you are looking at are the prototypes of the vertical supports and the cross braces...the vertical supports were easy enough...some 2" X 3". cold rolled steel is a very nice match...the width is the same as the legacy piece, the depth about 3/16" deeper than the legacy piece, but that does not matter... and leaving it a full, rectangular tube will only make the whole support stronger...i cut the legacy support in such a way that if i need to lengthen the vertical slot(where the bed support brace attaches), i can always do that later once i mock everything up...this work was a simple cut and weld procedure...the cross brace was done in a similar fashion but i had to cut a section out of the 2 X 3 tubing lengthwise and weld it back together again, so it matched the width of the brace...a bit more work than the support, but it came out well...everything goes back together as legacy originally intended it to do...a bit relieved these two pieces came out as well as they did, but it took more time than i anticipated and with many more pieces i have left to do, this is going to be a longer project than i originally thought...any and all comments welcome...and you all can save the "joe, you must be crazy" comments, as i already know that!...thanks...joe...forgot to mention...the photos are a before and after...and the added pieces of new metal are 8" long each








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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

[mwfoscue]

Dang Joe!  You remind me of the old Memorex commercials:  "Is it live? - Or is it Memorex?"Is it Legacy? - or is it "Joe's"?   You could convince me that you worked at Legacy - in their fabrication/skunkwerks dept.!VERY nice work Joe!  I KNEW you'd have something bigger to show us.Thanks for sharing.Mac-Original Message-
From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
Sent: Jan 26, 2015 8:54 PM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

starting a separate discussion  regarding enlarging the turning capacity of my legacy, as i have decided to proceed with this project...although, i am still a bit nervous about this mod...what you are looking at are the prototypes of the vertical supports and the cross braces...the vertical supports were easy enough...some 2" X 3". cold rolled steel is a very nice match...the width is the same as the legacy piece, the depth about 3/16" deeper than the legacy piece, but that does not matter... and leaving it a full, rectangular tube will only make the whole support stronger...i cut the legacy support in such a way that if i need to lengthen the vertical slot(where the bed support brace attaches), i can always do that later once i mock everything up...this work was a simple cut and weld procedure...the cross brace was done in a similar fashion but i had to cut a section out of the 2 X 3 tubing lengthwise and weld it back together again, so it matched the width of the brace...a bit more work than the support, but it came out well...everything goes back together as legacy originally intended it to do...a bit relieved these two pieces came out as well as they did, but it took more time than i anticipated and with many more pieces i have left to do, this is going to be a longer project than i originally thought...any and all comments welcome...and you all can save the "joe, you must be crazy" comments, as i already know that!...thanks...joe








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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

recently, as i was disassembling and "playing" with my machine, i noticed 
something that never dawned on me before...there seems to be not a single 
weld on the legacy whatsoever...i find this to be quite unique for a 
machine as complex as this is and a major accomplishment in engineering and 
design...not sure if it is andy, tracy or someone else's background that 
accomplished this(or perhaps a team effort)...but i certainly tip my hat to 
the craftsmanship that went into it...very well done and executed...must 
have taken an incredible amountjoe of hours to work it all out...i am 
taking a huge amount of time just to modify it, can't imagine how much time 
it took to make it originally...

On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 9:02:08 PM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:
>
> also considering a brace/gusset where the cross brace meets the vertical 
> support...it would be shaped so as not to be in the way of the largest 
> turning diameter, but be as large as possible...will determine if it is 
> needed once the modified machine is completely reassembled...joe
>
> On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 8:54:09 PM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:
>>
>> starting a separate discussion  regarding enlarging the turning capacity 
>> of my legacy, as i have decided to proceed with this project...although, i 
>> am still a bit nervous about this mod...what you are looking at are the 
>> prototypes of the vertical supports and the cross braces...the vertical 
>> supports were easy enough...some 2" X 3". cold rolled steel is a very nice 
>> match...the width is the same as the legacy piece, the depth about 3/16" 
>> deeper than the legacy piece, but that does not matter... and leaving it a 
>> full, rectangular tube will only make the whole support stronger...i cut 
>> the legacy support in such a way that if i need to lengthen the vertical 
>> slot(where the bed support brace attaches), i can always do that later once 
>> i mock everything up...this work was a simple cut and weld procedure...the 
>> cross brace was done in a similar fashion but i had to cut a section out of 
>> the 2 X 3 tubing lengthwise and weld it back together again, so it matched 
>> the width of the brace...a bit more work than the support, but it came out 
>> well...everything goes back together as legacy originally intended it to 
>> do...a bit relieved these two pieces came out as well as they did, but it 
>> took more time than i anticipated and with many more pieces i have left to 
>> do, this is going to be a longer project than i originally thought...any 
>> and all comments welcome...and you all can save the "joe, you must be 
>> crazy" comments, as i already know that!...thanks...joe...forgot to 
>> mention...the photos are a before and after...and the added pieces of new 
>> metal are 8" long each
>>
>

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Re: enlarging turning capacity of a legacy

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

also considering a brace/gusset where the cross brace meets the vertical 
support...it would be shaped so as not to be in the way of the largest 
turning diameter, but be as large as possible...will determine if it is 
needed once the modified machine is completely reassembled...joe

On Monday, January 26, 2015 at 8:54:09 PM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote:
>
> starting a separate discussion  regarding enlarging the turning capacity 
> of my legacy, as i have decided to proceed with this project...although, i 
> am still a bit nervous about this mod...what you are looking at are the 
> prototypes of the vertical supports and the cross braces...the vertical 
> supports were easy enough...some 2" X 3". cold rolled steel is a very nice 
> match...the width is the same as the legacy piece, the depth about 3/16" 
> deeper than the legacy piece, but that does not matter... and leaving it a 
> full, rectangular tube will only make the whole support stronger...i cut 
> the legacy support in such a way that if i need to lengthen the vertical 
> slot(where the bed support brace attaches), i can always do that later once 
> i mock everything up...this work was a simple cut and weld procedure...the 
> cross brace was done in a similar fashion but i had to cut a section out of 
> the 2 X 3 tubing lengthwise and weld it back together again, so it matched 
> the width of the brace...a bit more work than the support, but it came out 
> well...everything goes back together as legacy originally intended it to 
> do...a bit relieved these two pieces came out as well as they did, but it 
> took more time than i anticipated and with many more pieces i have left to 
> do, this is going to be a longer project than i originally thought...any 
> and all comments welcome...and you all can save the "joe, you must be 
> crazy" comments, as i already know that!...thanks...joe...forgot to 
> mention...the photos are a before and after...and the added pieces of new 
> metal are 8" long each
>

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