Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Garrick Niemiec]

So...what are we going to do with all these tossed salads and
scrambled eggs?  Leadership?

On Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 8:52 AM Carol Ryan  wrote:

> Thank you Mr Gregg for the clarification that you are indeed a Lincoln
> taxpayer.
> On a side note:
>  I personally am very much in favor of sharing facilities in our
> neighboring towns. For example The Beede Center in Concord and The Weston
> AIC are both fantastic facilities close by. I encourage people who are
> looking for community to consider a visit to either of these places. I am
> sure there are other meeting up venues around as well.
> Best, Carolyn Ryan
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 17, 2023, at 8:33 AM, john gregg  wrote:
>
> 
> To make it clear I am currently a resident of Sudbury and still own a
> property in Lincoln that I pay taxes on!  I lived in Lincoln for @20 years
> and lived through the school fiasco where my child attended K-8 so I am
> giving my insight as to how the school debate is directly correlating to
> the Community Center discussion. Where I live now does not invalidate my
> views or thoughts on the subject which comes from a good place.
>
> It is important that the Town of Lincoln make a decision in the best
> interest of all the residents of Lincoln. We had to endure years of my son
> going to a school that was way past its time and listen to a debate similar
> to this conversation, don't make the same mistake . A new school was needed
> many years ago and instead of accepting this fact it became a debate until
> finally all the parents of the kids in the school rallied to make it happen
> because the school was not safe nor functional. Not sure how this plays out
> but Pierce House or Bemis Hall do not and will not fill the needs of the
> elderly, LEAP as well as all the services of the Parks and Rec Dept and is
> not a responsible action nor is it giving back to society! A great idea
> would be to have a Town Fundraiser, an Auto Show at Peirce House with
> raffles and beautiful cars on the lawn.
>
> The question for the community becomes can you build something that
> fills the needs of LEAP, Council on Aging, as well as the Parks and Rec
> Dept where it can be an investment, there are ways to make this pay for
> itself. The debate of the school was the same, why was it necessary to
> build a school that would be so costly? Well, it was an investment in the
> children of the community as well as the teachers to provide a safe,
> welcoming, and functional environment. This mean updating the buildings to
> have working electrical outlets, no leaky roofs, and more modern ways of
> utilizing space for a positive learning experience. No parent would have
> walked into Lincoln Schools in 2018 and chosen to pay taxes in Lincoln over
> say Weston or Wayland. But even then after everything was done the Brooks
> Gym still houses its original floor which was always unsafe for the kids to
> play on as it was more like an ice rink than a gym floor.
>
> Here is a snippet of the School discussion to revisit, and please note
> the same underlying theme, where can the costs occur, how to cut corners to
> save money today. Also note once the problems got so severe the project
> needed to happen and it cost @$93 Million:
>
> Four years earlier, *the MSBA offered to pay $21 million toward a new
> school costing $49 million if residents agreed by a two-thirds majority to
> fund their share*. But the margin at a Special Town Meeting in November
> 2012 was 370-321 votes (54 percent to 45 percent), so the funding offer was
> withdrawn and the town had to begin the process all over again. The MSBA
> also declined to offer funding in 2013 and 2015. At Town Meeting in March
> 2016
> ,
> residents overwhelmingly approved the latest application to the MSBA.
>
> In 2014, consultants Dore and Whittier determined that the school
> needed immediate work costing $8.4 million
> 
>  including
> a new roof for the entire building, a new exterior wall for the Reed Gym,
> and a new boiler room and pumping equipment for the Smith
> building. However, even if residents approved funding for that work, the
> town would have to spend several million dollars more, because by state
> law, when school renovation costs exceed a certain percentage of the
> building’s assessed value, the building must also be brought up to current
> code for handicapped accessibility. For the Lincoln School, the trigger
> point in 2014 was about $6.5 million.
> Meeting only the immediate and near-term facilities needs of the school
> with no educational improvements or cafeteria would cost more than $27
> million, the consultants said, while a comprehensive project meeting all
> facilities and educational needs would cost almost $60 million.
>
> 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Carol Ryan]

Thank you Mr Gregg for the clarification that you are indeed a Lincoln taxpayer.On a side note: I personally am very much in favor of sharing facilities in our neighboring towns. For example The Beede Center in Concord and The Weston AIC are both fantastic facilities close by. I encourage people who are looking for community to consider a visit to either of these places. I am sure there are other meeting up venues around as well.Best, Carolyn RyanSent from my iPhoneOn Sep 17, 2023, at 8:33 AM, john gregg  wrote:To make it clear I am currently a resident of Sudbury and still own a property in Lincoln that I pay taxes on!  I lived in Lincoln for @20 years and lived through the school fiasco where my child attended K-8 so I am giving my insight as to how the school debate is directly correlating to the Community Center discussion. Where I live now does not invalidate my views or thoughts on the subject which comes from a good place. It is important that the Town of Lincoln make a decision in the best interest of all the residents of Lincoln. We had to endure years of my son going to a school that was way past its time and listen to a debate similar to this conversation, don't make the same mistake . A new school was needed many years ago and instead of accepting this fact it became a debate until finally all the parents of the kids in the school rallied to make it happen because the school was not safe nor functional. Not sure how this plays out but Pierce House or Bemis Hall do not and will not fill the needs of the elderly, LEAP as well as all the services of the Parks and Rec Dept and is not a responsible action nor is it giving back to society! A great idea would be to have a Town Fundraiser, an Auto Show at Peirce House with raffles and beautiful cars on the lawn. The question for the community becomes can you build something that fills the needs of LEAP, Council on Aging, as well as the Parks and Rec Dept where it can be an investment, there are ways to make this pay for itself. The debate of the school was the same, why was it necessary to build a school that would be so costly? Well, it was an investment in the children of the community as well as the teachers to provide a safe, welcoming, and functional environment. This mean updating the buildings to have working electrical outlets, no leaky roofs, and more modern ways of utilizing space for a positive learning experience. No parent would have walked into Lincoln Schools in 2018 and chosen to pay taxes in Lincoln over say Weston or Wayland. But even then after everything was done the Brooks Gym still houses its original floor which was always unsafe for the kids to play on as it was more like an ice rink than a gym floor. Here is a snippet of the School discussion to revisit, and please note the same underlying theme, where can the costs occur, how to cut corners to save money today. Also note once the problems got so severe the project needed to happen and it cost @$93 Million:Four years earlier, the MSBA offered to pay $21 million toward a new school costing $49 million if residents agreed by a two-thirds majority to fund their share. But the margin at a Special Town Meeting in November 2012 was 370-321 votes (54 percent to 45 percent), so the funding offer was withdrawn and the town had to begin the process all over again. The MSBA also declined to offer funding in 2013 and 2015. At Town Meeting in March 2016, residents overwhelmingly approved the latest application to the MSBA.In 2014, consultants Dore and Whittier determined that the school needed immediate work costing $8.4 million including a new roof for the entire building, a new exterior wall for the Reed Gym, and a new boiler room and pumping equipment for the Smith building. However, even if residents approved funding for that work, the town would have to spend several million dollars more, because by state law, when school renovation costs exceed a certain percentage of the building’s assessed value, the building must also be brought up to current code for handicapped accessibility. For the Lincoln School, the trigger point in 2014 was about $6.5 million.Meeting only the immediate and near-term facilities needs of the school with no educational improvements or cafeteria would cost more than $27 million, the consultants said, while a comprehensive project meeting all facilities and educational needs would cost almost $60 million.https://lincolnsquirrel.com/2016/12/state-says-no-to-lincoln-school-funding-for-the-third-time/Best Regards,John GreggStill Paying Taxes in LincolnReside in 01776Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 17, 2023, at 6:55 AM, Carol Ryan  wrote:Dear Lincoln ,As a current home owner in Lincoln I would like to point out that the previous post has been written by a resident of Sudbury .It is my hope that careful consideration of how this project will impact the residents of Lincoln in all income brackets is at the top of the agenda.Carolyn RyanSent from my 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[V Saleme]

To be journalistically ‘fair’ it should be pointed out that John has been a
long time resident of Lincoln- until recently.

On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 6:55 AM Carol Ryan  wrote:

> Dear Lincoln ,
> As a current home owner in Lincoln I would like to point out that the
> previous post has been written by a resident of Sudbury .
> It is my hope that careful consideration of how this project will impact
> the residents of Lincoln in all income brackets is at the top of the agenda.
> Carolyn Ryan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 16, 2023, at 2:25 PM, john gregg via Lincoln <
> lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:
>
> 
> The best gift a town or society can give is to give back. Do you think the
> people who built Pierce home or Bemis Hall or LPS so many years ago were
> concerned about the family dichotomy of 2023? Nope, that is why they build
> a capsule to explain what things were like back then so when they take tehm
> down it can explain what the times were like many years ago.
>
> I find it really concerning that the same people who enforced the shut
> down of a new school paid for by the State want to also now shut down a
> Community Center. New bathrooms and doorways in a building built before the
> people who lived through WWII is not the answer, and kids just need a place
> to grow, maybe a new Magic Garden Center for pre-K. Time to pay back
> Lincoln for all that land you accrued via the land you were given, I am
> sure everyone in the town agrees this land was taken from the Indians and
> the Native American respected their elders and raised their children to be
> leaders.
>
> But yet the voices here want money for speed bumps than to allow the
> elderly a place to be able to have some comfort and the youth have a place
> to assimilate and attract young families to the TOWN who will pay the money
> to live in a safe town and a community who can have after school programs
> and and a Parks and Rec Department to function.  I will also again speak
> highly of what the Parks and Rec Dept. provides; the pool and tennis courts
> are part of the Rec Dept,, basketball as well as many other activities. But
> yet lets refurbish Bemis Hall so the locals in Lincoln can feel good about
> themselves.
>
> I honestly cannot comprehend how a kitchen that "catering standards so
> could also have coffee/tea & snacks available." is caring for people, that
> is what you do for guests you do not want to stay long or how your treat
> your dog or cat.
>
> The Town has no options but to build a new building, with updated
> facilities mot spend millions to renovate something that is historic but
> not functional.
>
> Best Regards,
> John Gregg
>
>
>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Carol Ryan]

Dear Lincoln ,
As a current home owner in Lincoln I would like to point out that the previous 
post has been written by a resident of Sudbury .
It is my hope that careful consideration of how this project will impact the 
residents of Lincoln in all income brackets is at the top of the agenda.
Carolyn Ryan

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 16, 2023, at 2:25 PM, john gregg via Lincoln  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> The best gift a town or society can give is to give back. Do you think the 
> people who built Pierce home or Bemis Hall or LPS so many years ago were 
> concerned about the family dichotomy of 2023? Nope, that is why they build a 
> capsule to explain what things were like back then so when they take tehm 
> down it can explain what the times were like many years ago.
> 
> I find it really concerning that the same people who enforced the shut down 
> of a new school paid for by the State want to also now shut down a Community 
> Center. New bathrooms and doorways in a building built before the people who 
> lived through WWII is not the answer, and kids just need a place to grow, 
> maybe a new Magic Garden Center for pre-K. Time to pay back Lincoln for all 
> that land you accrued via the land you were given, I am sure everyone in the 
> town agrees this land was taken from the Indians and the Native American 
> respected their elders and raised their children to be leaders.
> 
> But yet the voices here want money for speed bumps than to allow the elderly 
> a place to be able to have some comfort and the youth have a place to 
> assimilate and attract young families to the TOWN who will pay the money to 
> live in a safe town and a community who can have after school programs and 
> and a Parks and Rec Department to function.  I will also again speak highly 
> of what the Parks and Rec Dept. provides; the pool and tennis courts are part 
> of the Rec Dept,, basketball as well as many other activities. But yet lets 
> refurbish Bemis Hall so the locals in Lincoln can feel good about themselves. 
> 
> I honestly cannot comprehend how a kitchen that "catering standards so could 
> also have coffee/tea & snacks available." is caring for people, that is what 
> you do for guests you do not want to stay long or how your treat your dog or 
> cat. 
> 
> The Town has no options but to build a new building, with updated facilities 
> mot spend millions to renovate something that is historic but not functional. 
> 
> Best Regards,
> John Gregg
> 
>> 
> -- 
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
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> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
> 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[john gregg via Lincoln]

The best gift a town or society can give is to give back. Do you think the 
people who built Pierce home or Bemis Hall or LPS so many years ago were 
concerned about the family dichotomy of 2023? Nope, that is why they build a 
capsule to explain what things were like back then so when they take tehm down 
it can explain what the times were like many years ago.

I find it really concerning that the same people who enforced the shut down of 
a new school paid for by the State want to also now shut down a Community 
Center. New bathrooms and doorways in a building built before the people who 
lived through WWII is not the answer, and kids just need a place to grow, maybe 
a new Magic Garden Center for pre-K. Time to pay back Lincoln for all that land 
you accrued via the land you were given, I am sure everyone in the town agrees 
this land was taken from the Indians and the Native American respected their 
elders and raised their children to be leaders.

But yet the voices here want money for speed bumps than to allow the elderly a 
place to be able to have some comfort and the youth have a place to assimilate 
and attract young families to the TOWN who will pay the money to live in a safe 
town and a community who can have after school programs and and a Parks and Rec 
Department to function.  I will also again speak highly of what the Parks and 
Rec Dept. provides; the pool and tennis courts are part of the Rec Dept,, 
basketball as well as many other activities. But yet lets refurbish Bemis Hall 
so the locals in Lincoln can feel good about themselves. 

I honestly cannot comprehend how a kitchen that "catering standards so could 
also have coffee/tea & snacks available." is caring for people, that is what 
you do for guests you do not want to stay long or how your treat your dog or 
cat. 

The Town has no options but to build a new building, with updated facilities 
mot spend millions to renovate something that is historic but not functional. 

Best Regards,
John Gregg

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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[kathryn corbin]

Please do! KathrynKathryn Corbincorbindes...@brown-corbin.comM: 617-513-6241Sent from my iPadPlease excuse typos, (including those generated by Spell Check, the bane of our online lives!) On Sep 15, 2023, at 8:46 PM, Laura Crosby  wrote:I would also be happy to be part of this conversation. I could let Jen know there is a group who would like to investigate the possibility of this inviting and comfortable community room. LauraSent from my iPhoneOn Sep 15, 2023, at 7:10 PM, kathryn Corbin  wrote:I would very muck like to participate in such a conversation/project discussion as well, and have several ideas for it as well. I’m also happy to contribute my my interior design expertise to help create such a space.Kathryn CorbinSent from my iPhonePlease excuse any typos,(which I declare are exclusively the fault of auto spell-check!)On Sep 15, 2023, at 6:55 PM, Linda McMillan  wrote:I would love to see something like this in town and would be happy to be part of a conversation with Pierce House and COA. I would hope that others might join in who would anticipate using such a space. It may be a good short-term solution. I would still advocate for a more permanent space within the new Community Building ( if it goes forward). At the very least, I think it needs to be part of the programming so the architects could explore possible space options within their design. Thank you Sara for the Pierce House idea!On Sep 15, 2023, at 3:14 PM, Sarah Liepert  wrote:




Hi Sara/Linda McMillan. What a great suggestion, which could be implemented in the near term. Might COA and Pierce House staff connect to see about having a community drop-in room (or rooms) soon? Copying Abigail Butt.

Best,
Sarah Liepert

On Sep 15, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Sara Mattes  wrote:




 Would the Pierce House meet such a need, if an accessible bathroom and entrance were better developed?
There are lovely rooms (recently  redecorated) that could hold comfy chairs.
The kitchen meets catering standards so could also have coffee/tea & snacks available.
Perhaps there could be some afternoon structured conversations, in addition to regular drop-ins.
The separate rooms on the first floor lends themselves to different functions-quiet reading, conversation, card games…etc.


Let’s make better use of this lovely gift to the town.


Sara








--
Sara Mattes









On Sep 15, 2023, at 10:57 AM, Linda McMillan  wrote:



While I fully support the COA and have been a volunteer for many years, the design of the new “Community Center” (at last I looked), does not support one of the biggest program needs of seniors, that is,
LONELINESS. There are many seniors who have lost a spouse, or who live alone for various reasons and are lacking connection to other people. Perhaps they don’t feel like signing up for an exercise class, or want to learn a new language,
 or play the ukulele, or attend a lecture, but they DO WANT to go to a place where they can see other people, maybe even meet someone new, chat, and have a cup of coffee or tea, and hang out. They would like comfy chairs, maybe
 some magazines donated by “the community”, and a space where you don’t have to talk in a whisper (like the library). A report released this year by the US Surgeon General reported that about half of U.S. adults reported experiencing measurable levels of loneliness.
 The report is titled “Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation.”


The Community Center building as currently designed (the last I looked) does not have a welcoming, comfortable space like this. They have utilitarian “activity rooms” and “lecture rooms”. I realize that building costs have risen significantly and that
 the current cost of construction and renovation pose significant challenges, but if the new “Community Center” doesn’t have a space to tackle this incredibly important need of seniors, then we are not seeing the forest for the trees, and I will not support
 it.


Linda McMillan
207 Sandy Pond Road


On Sep 14, 2023, at 12:38 PM, Peter Buchthal  wrote:


My late father lived till he was 97 and was a big user of his local Council on Aging.  They were fantastic and helped us out is innumerable ways as my late mother suffered from dementia.  My father enjoyed his weekly senior lunch followed by
 a competitive game of scrabble with a local policeman.  


I support all Council on Aging programs, period. 


What I think the Community Center's committee hasn't yet made the case for is the following:


1) Without real average and mean numbers to COA's programs,  I can not get behind the size of program rooms requested to provide all ongoing programs. The COA has only provided min and max numbers with huge variations that make over building very likely. 
 Lincoln has a tendency to over build, that is why our school is much, much larger than we really needed by any standard.


2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[lincolntalk]

Thank you for that clarification, Allen. While I haven’t yet concluded where I 
stand on the budget, or even location, of a Community Center, I think there’s 
another important consideration.

 

It can be difficult for our public employees to live near, much less within, 
this town. I’ve lived here for over thirty years, and I know that for decades 
we expected them to work in Town Offices with no elevators and ancient 
staircases, in school buildings with inadequate heating and plumbing, in the 
cramped offices of Bemis Hall, and with the weird bathroom facilities of the 
Hartwell pods. 

 

I want to show more respect for staff, administrative or otherwise. Volunteers 
count too. These people provide valuable services and are much of the reason I 
hope to remain a resident. If paying a bit more in property taxes to provide 
reasonable workspaces means that we can attract and retain such talent, I’ll go 
for it. Voting to delay this project, as happened with the school, could be an 
equally costly mistake. 

 

From: Lincoln  On Behalf Of Allen Vander Meulen
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2023 10:29 AM
To: Listserv Listserv 
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

 

It should be noted that some of the projects in the Andy Wang posted - such as 
the replacement of water pipes (and other Water / Sewage system upgrade or 
repair projects), as well as road paving & improvement, are often partially or 
fully paid-for by grants from the State - or sometimes from CPC funds.  They do 
not impact our property taxes.

 

Bear in mind that such grants from the State will likely be at risk if we do 
not continue to move forward with the proposed Housing Choice Act-related 
zoning changes, which is a major topic on the agenda at the upcoming SOTT 
meeting.  All these projects impact each other, which is why I am very glad I’m 
not on the Select Board!  And is also why I very much appreciate the great job 
Lincoln’s Government and Administration have done, and continue to do: 
"threading the needle” to help the us successfully navigate all these competing 
and yet highly interconnected needs and challenges - not just those at the 
forefront today, but also preparing for those we will need to address in the 
future.

 

- Allen Vander Meulen





On Sep 15, 2023, at 09:42, Andy Wang mailto:andyrw...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

I believe that was provided at the Nov 2022 Special Town meeting. [source 
<https://lincolncommunitycenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/STM-30Nov2022-CCBC.pdf>
 ]

 



Caveat that with the 'Possible' and 'Select' wiggle room words in the title.  
I've heard that replacing water pipes is an on-going process.  If there is some 
large failure, that might hit all at once.  I'm not sure if that comes out of 
town budget or the water department, reflected in the water rate.  Either way, 
it comes back to the property owners one way or another.

 

- Andy

 

 

On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 9:18 AM melinda bruno-smith mailto:melindabr...@hotmail.com> > wrote:

Thank you Peter.

 

I agree that point #2 should be addressed at Town meeting.

 

Melinda Bruno-Smith

 

…….2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the 
pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon will 
need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  I have 
heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside path/bicycle 
safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings…..

Sent from my iPhone 

Melinda Bruno-Smith

 

 

 


On Sep 15, 2023, at 8:50 AM, V Saleme mailto:bmwkbi...@gmail.com> > wrote:

2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the 
pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon will 
need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  I have 
heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside path/bicycle 
safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings.  

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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Laura Crosby]

I would also be happy to be part of this conversation. I could let Jen know there is a group who would like to investigate the possibility of this inviting and comfortable community room. LauraSent from my iPhoneOn Sep 15, 2023, at 7:10 PM, kathryn Corbin  wrote:I would very muck like to participate in such a conversation/project discussion as well, and have several ideas for it as well. I’m also happy to contribute my my interior design expertise to help create such a space.Kathryn CorbinSent from my iPhonePlease excuse any typos,(which I declare are exclusively the fault of auto spell-check!)On Sep 15, 2023, at 6:55 PM, Linda McMillan  wrote:I would love to see something like this in town and would be happy to be part of a conversation with Pierce House and COA. I would hope that others might join in who would anticipate using such a space. It may be a good short-term solution. I would still advocate for a more permanent space within the new Community Building ( if it goes forward). At the very least, I think it needs to be part of the programming so the architects could explore possible space options within their design. Thank you Sara for the Pierce House idea!On Sep 15, 2023, at 3:14 PM, Sarah Liepert  wrote:




Hi Sara/Linda McMillan. What a great suggestion, which could be implemented in the near term. Might COA and Pierce House staff connect to see about having a community drop-in room (or rooms) soon? Copying Abigail Butt.

Best,
Sarah Liepert

On Sep 15, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Sara Mattes  wrote:




 Would the Pierce House meet such a need, if an accessible bathroom and entrance were better developed?
There are lovely rooms (recently  redecorated) that could hold comfy chairs.
The kitchen meets catering standards so could also have coffee/tea & snacks available.
Perhaps there could be some afternoon structured conversations, in addition to regular drop-ins.
The separate rooms on the first floor lends themselves to different functions-quiet reading, conversation, card games…etc.


Let’s make better use of this lovely gift to the town.


Sara








--
Sara Mattes









On Sep 15, 2023, at 10:57 AM, Linda McMillan  wrote:



While I fully support the COA and have been a volunteer for many years, the design of the new “Community Center” (at last I looked), does not support one of the biggest program needs of seniors, that is,
LONELINESS. There are many seniors who have lost a spouse, or who live alone for various reasons and are lacking connection to other people. Perhaps they don’t feel like signing up for an exercise class, or want to learn a new language,
 or play the ukulele, or attend a lecture, but they DO WANT to go to a place where they can see other people, maybe even meet someone new, chat, and have a cup of coffee or tea, and hang out. They would like comfy chairs, maybe
 some magazines donated by “the community”, and a space where you don’t have to talk in a whisper (like the library). A report released this year by the US Surgeon General reported that about half of U.S. adults reported experiencing measurable levels of loneliness.
 The report is titled “Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation.”


The Community Center building as currently designed (the last I looked) does not have a welcoming, comfortable space like this. They have utilitarian “activity rooms” and “lecture rooms”. I realize that building costs have risen significantly and that
 the current cost of construction and renovation pose significant challenges, but if the new “Community Center” doesn’t have a space to tackle this incredibly important need of seniors, then we are not seeing the forest for the trees, and I will not support
 it.


Linda McMillan
207 Sandy Pond Road


On Sep 14, 2023, at 12:38 PM, Peter Buchthal  wrote:


My late father lived till he was 97 and was a big user of his local Council on Aging.  They were fantastic and helped us out is innumerable ways as my late mother suffered from dementia.  My father enjoyed his weekly senior lunch followed by
 a competitive game of scrabble with a local policeman.  


I support all Council on Aging programs, period. 


What I think the Community Center's committee hasn't yet made the case for is the following:


1) Without real average and mean numbers to COA's programs,  I can not get behind the size of program rooms requested to provide all ongoing programs. The COA has only provided min and max numbers with huge variations that make over building very likely. 
 Lincoln has a tendency to over build, that is why our school is much, much larger than we really needed by any standard.


2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon will need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  I have heard other rumors
 on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside path/bicycle safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings.  

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[kathryn Corbin]

I would very muck like to participate in such a conversation/project discussion as well, and have several ideas for it as well. I’m also happy to contribute my my interior design expertise to help create such a space.Kathryn CorbinSent from my iPhonePlease excuse any typos,(which I declare are exclusively the fault of auto spell-check!)On Sep 15, 2023, at 6:55 PM, Linda McMillan  wrote:I would love to see something like this in town and would be happy to be part of a conversation with Pierce House and COA. I would hope that others might join in who would anticipate using such a space. It may be a good short-term solution. I would still advocate for a more permanent space within the new Community Building ( if it goes forward). At the very least, I think it needs to be part of the programming so the architects could explore possible space options within their design. Thank you Sara for the Pierce House idea!On Sep 15, 2023, at 3:14 PM, Sarah Liepert  wrote:




Hi Sara/Linda McMillan. What a great suggestion, which could be implemented in the near term. Might COA and Pierce House staff connect to see about having a community drop-in room (or rooms) soon? Copying Abigail Butt.

Best,
Sarah Liepert

On Sep 15, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Sara Mattes  wrote:




 Would the Pierce House meet such a need, if an accessible bathroom and entrance were better developed?
There are lovely rooms (recently  redecorated) that could hold comfy chairs.
The kitchen meets catering standards so could also have coffee/tea & snacks available.
Perhaps there could be some afternoon structured conversations, in addition to regular drop-ins.
The separate rooms on the first floor lends themselves to different functions-quiet reading, conversation, card games…etc.


Let’s make better use of this lovely gift to the town.


Sara








--
Sara Mattes









On Sep 15, 2023, at 10:57 AM, Linda McMillan  wrote:



While I fully support the COA and have been a volunteer for many years, the design of the new “Community Center” (at last I looked), does not support one of the biggest program needs of seniors, that is,
LONELINESS. There are many seniors who have lost a spouse, or who live alone for various reasons and are lacking connection to other people. Perhaps they don’t feel like signing up for an exercise class, or want to learn a new language,
 or play the ukulele, or attend a lecture, but they DO WANT to go to a place where they can see other people, maybe even meet someone new, chat, and have a cup of coffee or tea, and hang out. They would like comfy chairs, maybe
 some magazines donated by “the community”, and a space where you don’t have to talk in a whisper (like the library). A report released this year by the US Surgeon General reported that about half of U.S. adults reported experiencing measurable levels of loneliness.
 The report is titled “Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation.”


The Community Center building as currently designed (the last I looked) does not have a welcoming, comfortable space like this. They have utilitarian “activity rooms” and “lecture rooms”. I realize that building costs have risen significantly and that
 the current cost of construction and renovation pose significant challenges, but if the new “Community Center” doesn’t have a space to tackle this incredibly important need of seniors, then we are not seeing the forest for the trees, and I will not support
 it.


Linda McMillan
207 Sandy Pond Road


On Sep 14, 2023, at 12:38 PM, Peter Buchthal  wrote:


My late father lived till he was 97 and was a big user of his local Council on Aging.  They were fantastic and helped us out is innumerable ways as my late mother suffered from dementia.  My father enjoyed his weekly senior lunch followed by
 a competitive game of scrabble with a local policeman.  


I support all Council on Aging programs, period. 


What I think the Community Center's committee hasn't yet made the case for is the following:


1) Without real average and mean numbers to COA's programs,  I can not get behind the size of program rooms requested to provide all ongoing programs. The COA has only provided min and max numbers with huge variations that make over building very likely. 
 Lincoln has a tendency to over build, that is why our school is much, much larger than we really needed by any standard.


2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon will need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  I have heard other rumors
 on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside path/bicycle safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings.  


3) The arguments for the Hartwell Community Center being made to the town is a bit of a False Choice.  We need to separate building or renovating a Senior Center of the correct size with "If you don't support this project, the town will never get a community
 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Linda McMillan]

I would love to see something like this in town and would be happy to be part 
of a conversation with Pierce House and COA. I would hope that others might 
join in who would anticipate using such a space. It may be a good short-term 
solution. I would still advocate for a more permanent space within the new 
Community Building ( if it goes forward). At the very least, I think it needs 
to be part of the programming so the architects could explore possible space 
options within their design. Thank you Sara for the Pierce House idea!


> On Sep 15, 2023, at 3:14 PM, Sarah Liepert  wrote:
> 
> Hi Sara/Linda McMillan. What a great suggestion, which could be implemented 
> in the near term. Might COA and Pierce House staff connect to see about 
> having a community drop-in room (or rooms) soon? Copying Abigail Butt.
> 
> Best,
> Sarah Liepert
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Sara Mattes  wrote:
>> 
>>  Would the Pierce House meet such a need, if an accessible bathroom and 
>> entrance were better developed?
>> There are lovely rooms (recently  redecorated) that could hold comfy chairs.
>> The kitchen meets catering standards so could also have coffee/tea & snacks 
>> available.
>> Perhaps there could be some afternoon structured conversations, in addition 
>> to regular drop-ins.
>> The separate rooms on the first floor lends themselves to different 
>> functions-quiet reading, conversation, card games…etc.
>> 
>> Let’s make better use of this lovely gift to the town.
>> 
>> Sara
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sara Mattes
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 15, 2023, at 10:57 AM, Linda McMillan  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> While I fully support the COA and have been a volunteer for many years, the 
>>> design of the new “Community Center” (at last I looked), does not support 
>>> one of the biggest program needs of seniors, that is, LONELINESS. There are 
>>> many seniors who have lost a spouse, or who live alone for various reasons 
>>> and are lacking connection to other people. Perhaps they don’t feel like 
>>> signing up for an exercise class, or want to learn a new language, or play 
>>> the ukulele, or attend a lecture, but they DO WANT to go to a place where 
>>> they can see other people, maybe even meet someone new, chat, and have a 
>>> cup of coffee or tea, and hang out. They would like comfy chairs, maybe 
>>> some magazines donated by “the community”, and a space where you don’t have 
>>> to talk in a whisper (like the library). A report released this year by the 
>>> US Surgeon General reported that about half of U.S. adults reported 
>>> experiencing measurable levels of loneliness. The report is titled “Our 
>>> Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation.”
>>> 
>>> The Community Center building as currently designed (the last I looked) 
>>> does not have a welcoming, comfortable space like this. They have 
>>> utilitarian “activity rooms” and “lecture rooms”. I realize that building 
>>> costs have risen significantly and that the current cost of construction 
>>> and renovation pose significant challenges, but if the new “Community 
>>> Center” doesn’t have a space to tackle this incredibly important need of 
>>> seniors, then we are not seeing the forest for the trees, and I will not 
>>> support it.
>>> 
>>> Linda McMillan
>>> 207 Sandy Pond Road
>>> 
 On Sep 14, 2023, at 12:38 PM, Peter Buchthal  wrote:
 
 My late father lived till he was 97 and was a big user of his local 
 Council on Aging.  They were fantastic and helped us out is innumerable 
 ways as my late mother suffered from dementia.  My father enjoyed his 
 weekly senior lunch followed by a competitive game of scrabble with a 
 local policeman.  
 
 I support all Council on Aging programs, period. 
 
 What I think the Community Center's committee hasn't yet made the case for 
 is the following:
 
 1) Without real average and mean numbers to COA's programs,  I can not get 
 behind the size of program rooms requested to provide all ongoing 
 programs. The COA has only provided min and max numbers with huge 
 variations that make over building very likely.  Lincoln has a tendency to 
 over build, that is why our school is much, much larger than we really 
 needed by any standard.
 
 2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in 
 the pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we 
 soon will need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the 
 town.  I have heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and 
 roadside path/bicycle safety  wishes may also require additional town 
 borrowings.  
 
 3) The arguments for the Hartwell Community Center being made to the town 
 is a bit of a False Choice.  We need to separate building or renovating a 
 Senior Center of the correct size with "If you don't support this project, 
 the town will never get a community center/ 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Sarah Liepert]

Hi Sara/Linda McMillan. What a great suggestion, which could be implemented in 
the near term. Might COA and Pierce House staff connect to see about having a 
community drop-in room (or rooms) soon? Copying Abigail Butt.

Best,
Sarah Liepert

On Sep 15, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Sara Mattes  wrote:

 Would the Pierce House meet such a need, if an accessible bathroom and 
entrance were better developed?
There are lovely rooms (recently  redecorated) that could hold comfy chairs.
The kitchen meets catering standards so could also have coffee/tea & snacks 
available.
Perhaps there could be some afternoon structured conversations, in addition to 
regular drop-ins.
The separate rooms on the first floor lends themselves to different 
functions-quiet reading, conversation, card games…etc.

Let’s make better use of this lovely gift to the town.

Sara




--
Sara Mattes




On Sep 15, 2023, at 10:57 AM, Linda McMillan  wrote:

While I fully support the COA and have been a volunteer for many years, the 
design of the new “Community Center” (at last I looked), does not support one 
of the biggest program needs of seniors, that is, LONELINESS. There are many 
seniors who have lost a spouse, or who live alone for various reasons and are 
lacking connection to other people. Perhaps they don’t feel like signing up for 
an exercise class, or want to learn a new language, or play the ukulele, or 
attend a lecture, but they DO WANT to go to a place where they can see other 
people, maybe even meet someone new, chat, and have a cup of coffee or tea, and 
hang out. They would like comfy chairs, maybe some magazines donated by “the 
community”, and a space where you don’t have to talk in a whisper (like the 
library). A report released this year by the US Surgeon General reported that 
about half of U.S. adults reported experiencing measurable levels of 
loneliness. The report is titled “Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation.”

The Community Center building as currently designed (the last I looked) does 
not have a welcoming, comfortable space like this. They have utilitarian 
“activity rooms” and “lecture rooms”. I realize that building costs have risen 
significantly and that the current cost of construction and renovation pose 
significant challenges, but if the new “Community Center” doesn’t have a space 
to tackle this incredibly important need of seniors, then we are not seeing the 
forest for the trees, and I will not support it.

Linda McMillan
207 Sandy Pond Road

On Sep 14, 2023, at 12:38 PM, Peter Buchthal  wrote:

My late father lived till he was 97 and was a big user of his local Council on 
Aging.  They were fantastic and helped us out is innumerable ways as my late 
mother suffered from dementia.  My father enjoyed his weekly senior lunch 
followed by a competitive game of scrabble with a local policeman.

I support all Council on Aging programs, period.

What I think the Community Center's committee hasn't yet made the case for is 
the following:

1) Without real average and mean numbers to COA's programs,  I can not get 
behind the size of program rooms requested to provide all ongoing programs. The 
COA has only provided min and max numbers with huge variations that make over 
building very likely.  Lincoln has a tendency to over build, that is why our 
school is much, much larger than we really needed by any standard.

2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the 
pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon will 
need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  I have 
heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside path/bicycle 
safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings.

3) The arguments for the Hartwell Community Center being made to the town is a 
bit of a False Choice.  We need to separate building or renovating a Senior 
Center of the correct size with "If you don't support this project, the town 
will never get a community center/ senior center that meets its needs."

I want to build a new or renovated facility that is the correct size for our 
Senior Community. I have continuing doubts that it should be on the Hartwell 
campus.  My late father was a terrible driver and I can't imagine purposefully 
placing our young children near senior drivers navigating parking lots.  I keep 
reading in the newspapers that seniors drivers often have unintended accidents  
driving into buildings that involve putting their foot down on the gas pedal 
instead of the brake.   Why are we unnecessarily setting ourselves up for a 
potential tragedy.

Let's stop this rush to build and build a newly renovated Council on Aging 
somewhere else in town like the Pierce House.



Peter Buchthal
71 Weston



On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 12:12 PM sally kindleberger 
mailto:skindleber...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thank you John Gregg for your thoughtful ideas about the Community Center.  We 
desperately need a Community 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Sara Mattes]

Would the Pierce House meet such a need, if an accessible bathroom and entrance 
were better developed?
There are lovely rooms (recently  redecorated) that could hold comfy chairs.
The kitchen meets catering standards so could also have coffee/tea & snacks 
available.
Perhaps there could be some afternoon structured conversations, in addition to 
regular drop-ins.
The separate rooms on the first floor lends themselves to different 
functions-quiet reading, conversation, card games…etc.

Let’s make better use of this lovely gift to the town.

Sara




--
Sara Mattes




> On Sep 15, 2023, at 10:57 AM, Linda McMillan  wrote:
> 
> While I fully support the COA and have been a volunteer for many years, the 
> design of the new “Community Center” (at last I looked), does not support one 
> of the biggest program needs of seniors, that is, LONELINESS. There are many 
> seniors who have lost a spouse, or who live alone for various reasons and are 
> lacking connection to other people. Perhaps they don’t feel like signing up 
> for an exercise class, or want to learn a new language, or play the ukulele, 
> or attend a lecture, but they DO WANT to go to a place where they can see 
> other people, maybe even meet someone new, chat, and have a cup of coffee or 
> tea, and hang out. They would like comfy chairs, maybe some magazines donated 
> by “the community”, and a space where you don’t have to talk in a whisper 
> (like the library). A report released this year by the US Surgeon General 
> reported that about half of U.S. adults reported experiencing measurable 
> levels of loneliness. The report is titled “Our Epidemic of Loneliness and 
> Isolation.”
> 
> The Community Center building as currently designed (the last I looked) does 
> not have a welcoming, comfortable space like this. They have utilitarian 
> “activity rooms” and “lecture rooms”. I realize that building costs have 
> risen significantly and that the current cost of construction and renovation 
> pose significant challenges, but if the new “Community Center” doesn’t have a 
> space to tackle this incredibly important need of seniors, then we are not 
> seeing the forest for the trees, and I will not support it.
> 
> Linda McMillan
> 207 Sandy Pond Road
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2023, at 12:38 PM, Peter Buchthal  wrote:
>> 
>> My late father lived till he was 97 and was a big user of his local Council 
>> on Aging.  They were fantastic and helped us out is innumerable ways as my 
>> late mother suffered from dementia.  My father enjoyed his weekly senior 
>> lunch followed by a competitive game of scrabble with a local policeman.  
>> 
>> I support all Council on Aging programs, period. 
>> 
>> What I think the Community Center's committee hasn't yet made the case for 
>> is the following:
>> 
>> 1) Without real average and mean numbers to COA's programs,  I can not get 
>> behind the size of program rooms requested to provide all ongoing programs. 
>> The COA has only provided min and max numbers with huge variations that make 
>> over building very likely.  Lincoln has a tendency to over build, that is 
>> why our school is much, much larger than we really needed by any standard.
>> 
>> 2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the 
>> pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon 
>> will need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  
>> I have heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside 
>> path/bicycle safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings.  
>> 
>> 3) The arguments for the Hartwell Community Center being made to the town is 
>> a bit of a False Choice.  We need to separate building or renovating a 
>> Senior Center of the correct size with "If you don't support this project, 
>> the town will never get a community center/ senior center that meets its 
>> needs."
>> 
>> I want to build a new or renovated facility that is the correct size for our 
>> Senior Community. I have continuing doubts that it should be on the Hartwell 
>> campus.  My late father was a terrible driver and I can't imagine 
>> purposefully placing our young children near senior drivers navigating 
>> parking lots.  I keep reading in the newspapers that seniors drivers often 
>> have unintended accidents  driving into buildings that involve putting their 
>> foot down on the gas pedal instead of the brake.   Why are we unnecessarily 
>> setting ourselves up for a potential tragedy.
>> 
>> Let's stop this rush to build and build a newly renovated Council on Aging 
>> somewhere else in town like the Pierce House.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Peter Buchthal
>> 71 Weston
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 12:12 PM sally kindleberger > > wrote:
>>> Thank you John Gregg for your thoughtful ideas about the Community Center.  
>>> We desperately need a Community Center that meets the needs of the whole 
>>> community.  This Build is a 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Sara Mattes]

Allen,
I am not sure that all this is current.

From my past history as a Select (back in ancient times, 2000-2012), the 
following comments and questions emerge.

#1-The chart did not show the potential for replacement of our water mains, and 
the cost of the Water Treatment Plant and/or a move to the MWRA.
While these may not be on our tax bill, as they will need to come from the 
Water Enterprise Fund, they are still bills to be paid for by users of the 
town’s water system.
The cost  will appear on water bills.
As I do not have access to town water I do not pay a water bill so I may have 
this wrong.
Perhaps the Water Board and/or Cap. Comm can weigh in on this…and correct me, 
if need be.
Is there a State grant program that covers these costs?
CPC funds do not over any portion of this type of project-again, I would 
welcome correction here, if needed.

#2)-The town does not own a sewage system, so this should not be part of our 
discussion…unless the town is considering developing a town-wide sewage system.
But, I have no memory of that ever being contemplated.
Regardless, I do not see how the CPC funds would provide support here.

#3)-Smaller road projects are generally paid for from Chpt. 90 funds that the 
State distributes to all cities and towns.
While not reflected on your property tax bill, these are from your state tax 
dollars.
A large project, like was done in 2010-12, was paid for with a bond bill…our 
tax dollars.
I do not recall state fund and/or a grant being part of this, except the annual 
Chpt. 90 funds.
Perhaps DPW Superintendent Bibbo or TA Tim Higgins can make a 
correction/clarification if it is needed.

#4)-There has been no indication that Cut.90 would be at risk-My most recent 
read of regs does not show it tied to HCA compliance.

#5)-CPA funds are our tax dollars-with some % match from the state.
Are you suggesting they are at risk if we do not adopt the HCA proposal?
I certainly haven’t heard that, but perhaps you have more info to share.

#6) - It would be helpful to share what funds we are actually at risk of 
losing, or gaining with the adoption of the zoning changes being proposed.


Yes, this are very complex issues and we need more clarity….see #6.
We need to be clear sighted and hard headed and make our decision based on data 
and with the long-term implications cleary in sight.
While decisions we are making today may have little or no impact on us, they 
certainly will for the next generation and those thereafter.

Finally, all funding, either from the state or from local taxes and fees, all 
come from the same pockets-ours.

See you at SoTT!

Sara






--
Sara Mattes




> On Sep 15, 2023, at 10:28 AM, Allen Vander Meulen  
> wrote:
> 
> It should be noted that some of the projects in the Andy Wang posted - such 
> as the replacement of water pipes (and other Water / Sewage system upgrade or 
> repair projects), as well as road paving & improvement, are often partially 
> or fully paid-for by grants from the State - or sometimes from CPC funds.  
> They do not impact our property taxes.
> 
> Bear in mind that such grants from the State will likely be at risk if we do 
> not continue to move forward with the proposed Housing Choice Act-related 
> zoning changes, which is a major topic on the agenda at the upcoming SOTT 
> meeting.  All these projects impact each other, which is why I am very glad 
> I’m not on the Select Board!  And is also why I very much appreciate the 
> great job Lincoln’s Government and Administration have done, and continue to 
> do: "threading the needle” to help the us successfully navigate all these 
> competing and yet highly interconnected needs and challenges - not just those 
> at the forefront today, but also preparing for those we will need to address 
> in the future.
> 
> - Allen Vander Meulen
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2023, at 09:42, Andy Wang  wrote:
>> 
>> I believe that was provided at the Nov 2022 Special Town meeting. [source 
>> ]
>> 
>> 
>> Caveat that with the 'Possible' and 'Select' wiggle room words in the title. 
>>  I've heard that replacing water pipes is an on-going process.  If there is 
>> some large failure, that might hit all at once.  I'm not sure if that comes 
>> out of town budget or the water department, reflected in the water rate.  
>> Either way, it comes back to the property owners one way or another.
>> 
>> - Andy
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 9:18 AM melinda bruno-smith 
>> mailto:melindabr...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Thank you Peter.
>>> 
>>> I agree that point #2 should be addressed at Town meeting.
>>> 
>>> Melinda Bruno-Smith
>>> 
>>> …….2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in 
>>> the pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we 
>>> soon will need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the 
>>> town.  I have heard other rumors on lincoln 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[kathryn Corbin]

Maureen, Linda, et al,I am one of many residents who find myself a stranger in a strange land of social isolation since my husband entered long term care 2 years ago, and it isn’t as easy as it might seem to maintain or retain social connections when so much has changed in one’s life and the new normal doesn’t feel very normal at all.Programs and classes are nice, but are not designed at their core to be spontaneous, informal or socially interactive. A welcoming spot to drop by, join or start a chat, grab a coffee, meet or make a friend, is what seniors need most to combat the isolation they find themselves in.Kathryn CorbinSent from my iPhonePlease excuse any typos,(which I declare are exclusively the fault of auto spell-check!)On Sep 15, 2023, at 1:52 PM, Maureen E Devlin  wrote:







Hi LT,
 
I’ve been perusing the US Surgeon General’s recent report,
Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation
for a client, want to add it to the mix here.
 
The final chapter of the report is “A National Strategy to Advance Social Connection.” The first of six pillars of the Surgeon General’s strategy is to
strengthen social infrastructure in local communities. 
 
I encourage you to take a look at the report—and to support the good work of the CCBC and funding for a community center.

 
Maureen Devlin
 



From:
Lincoln  on behalf of Laura Crosby 
Date: Friday, September 15, 2023 at 1:05 PM
To: Susan Stason 
Cc: lincoln@lincolntalk.org 
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

I agree 100%!

Sent from my iPhone






On Sep 15, 2023, at 1:01 PM, Susan Stason  wrote:







I fully support Linda McMillan’s advocacy for a comfortable, informal gathering spot for seniors (with all the details she noted) as an essential part of a new Community Center.




Sue Stason


Sandy Pond Rd


 


On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 11:34 AM K Mierz via Lincoln <lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:





when people have been mentioning the pierce house 


for a community center


i think of all the land in the adjacent park.


 


has anyone considered building there?


 


katherine mierzwa


 





 


 







On Friday, September 15, 2023, 08:50:02 AM EDT, V Saleme <bmwkbi...@gmail.com> wrote:



 


 





The Pierce house?


I seem to recall tennis star, John McEnroe, having an _expression_ for this ;)


 


I can’t imagine all the families whose kids participate in town events throughout the year coexisting in the same location - setting aside the traffic congestion
 and no doubt, everyone’s favorite proposed speed ‘humps’.


 


Vic


 


 



On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 8:04 PM Peter Buchthal <pbucht...@gmail.com> wrote:



My late father lived till he was 97 and was a big user of his local Council on Aging.  They were fantastic and helped us out is innumerable ways as my late mother
 suffered from dementia.  My father enjoyed his weekly senior lunch followed by a competitive game of scrabble with a local policeman.  

 


I support all Council on Aging programs, period. 


 


What I think the Community Center's committee hasn't yet made the case for is the following:


 


1) Without real average and mean numbers to COA's programs,  I can not get behind the size of program rooms requested to provide all ongoing programs. The COA has
 only provided min and max numbers with huge variations that make over building very likely.  Lincoln has a tendency to over build, that is why our school is much, much larger than we really needed by any standard.


 


2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon will need to
 replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  I have heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside path/bicycle safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings.  


 


3) The arguments for the Hartwell Community Center being made to the town is a bit of a False Choice.  We need to separate building or renovating a Senior Center
 of the correct size with "If you don't support this project, the town will never get a community center/ senior center that meets its needs."


 


I want to build a new or renovated facility that is the correct size for our Senior Community. I have continuing doubts that it should be on the Hartwell campus. 
 My late father was a terrible driver and I can't imagine purposefully placing our young children near senior drivers navigating parking lots.  I keep reading in the newspapers that seniors drivers often have unintended accidents  driving into buildings that
 involve putting their foot down on the gas pedal instead of the brake.   Why are we unnecessarily setting ourselves up for a potential tragedy.


 


Let's stop this rush to build and build a newly renovated Council on Aging somewhere else in town like the Pierce House.




 


 


 


Peter Buchthal


71 Weston



 


 



 


On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Maureen E Devlin]

Hi LT,

I’ve been perusing the US Surgeon General’s recent report, Our Epidemic of 
Loneliness and 
Isolation<https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf>
 for a client, want to add it to the mix here.

The final chapter of the report is “A National Strategy to Advance Social 
Connection.” The first of six pillars of the Surgeon General’s strategy is to 
strengthen social infrastructure in local communities.

I encourage you to take a look at the report—and to support the good work of 
the CCBC and funding for a community center.

Maureen Devlin

From: Lincoln  on behalf of Laura Crosby 

Date: Friday, September 15, 2023 at 1:05 PM
To: Susan Stason 
Cc: lincoln@lincolntalk.org 
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum
I agree 100%!
Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 15, 2023, at 1:01 PM, Susan Stason  wrote:

I fully support Linda McMillan’s advocacy for a comfortable, informal gathering 
spot for seniors (with all the details she noted) as an essential part of a new 
Community Center.
Sue Stason
Sandy Pond Rd

On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 11:34 AM K Mierz via Lincoln 
mailto:lincoln@lincolntalk.org>> wrote:
when people have been mentioning the pierce house
for a community center
i think of all the land in the adjacent park.

has anyone considered building there?

katherine mierzwa




On Friday, September 15, 2023, 08:50:02 AM EDT, V Saleme 
mailto:bmwkbi...@gmail.com>> wrote:


The Pierce house?
I seem to recall tennis star, John McEnroe, having an expression for this ;)

I can’t imagine all the families whose kids participate in town events 
throughout the year coexisting in the same location - setting aside the traffic 
congestion and no doubt, everyone’s favorite proposed speed ‘humps’.

Vic


On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 8:04 PM Peter Buchthal 
mailto:pbucht...@gmail.com>> wrote:
My late father lived till he was 97 and was a big user of his local Council on 
Aging.  They were fantastic and helped us out is innumerable ways as my late 
mother suffered from dementia.  My father enjoyed his weekly senior lunch 
followed by a competitive game of scrabble with a local policeman.

I support all Council on Aging programs, period.

What I think the Community Center's committee hasn't yet made the case for is 
the following:

1) Without real average and mean numbers to COA's programs,  I can not get 
behind the size of program rooms requested to provide all ongoing programs. The 
COA has only provided min and max numbers with huge variations that make over 
building very likely.  Lincoln has a tendency to over build, that is why our 
school is much, much larger than we really needed by any standard.

2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the 
pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon will 
need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  I have 
heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside path/bicycle 
safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings.

3) The arguments for the Hartwell Community Center being made to the town is a 
bit of a False Choice.  We need to separate building or renovating a Senior 
Center of the correct size with "If you don't support this project, the town 
will never get a community center/ senior center that meets its needs."

I want to build a new or renovated facility that is the correct size for our 
Senior Community. I have continuing doubts that it should be on the Hartwell 
campus.  My late father was a terrible driver and I can't imagine purposefully 
placing our young children near senior drivers navigating parking lots.  I keep 
reading in the newspapers that seniors drivers often have unintended accidents  
driving into buildings that involve putting their foot down on the gas pedal 
instead of the brake.   Why are we unnecessarily setting ourselves up for a 
potential tragedy.

Let's stop this rush to build and build a newly renovated Council on Aging 
somewhere else in town like the Pierce House.



Peter Buchthal
71 Weston



On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 12:12 PM sally kindleberger 
mailto:skindleber...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thank you John Gregg for your thoughtful ideas about the Community Center.  We 
desperately need a Community Center that meets the needs of the whole 
community.  This Build is a long time coming!  If the town votes on a 50% or 
even 75% reduction in size from the original proposed 100%
it will be a huge mistake.  Programs won't be possible in the smaller spaces.  
Why build something that does not meet the needs of the town?  And prices will 
only increase over time.  If we continue to quibble and bring up the same 
arguments and the same suggestions over and over, again we will never have a 
Community Center.  Prices will never come down.  We need to bite the bullet and 
build a useful space that works for the community.
Visit community cente

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Laura Crosby]

I agree 100%!Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 15, 2023, at 1:01 PM, Susan Stason  wrote:I fully support Linda McMillan’s advocacy for a comfortable, informal gathering spot for seniors (with all the details she noted) as an essential part of a new Community Center.Sue StasonSandy Pond RdOn Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 11:34 AM K Mierz via Lincoln  wrote:
when people have been mentioning the pierce house for a community centeri think of all the land in the adjacent park.has anyone considered building there?katherine mierzwa





On Friday, September 15, 2023, 08:50:02 AM EDT, V Saleme  wrote:



The Pierce house?I seem to recall tennis star, John McEnroe, having an _expression_ for this ;)I can’t imagine all the families whose kids participate in town events throughout the year coexisting in the same location - setting aside the traffic congestion and no doubt, everyone’s favorite proposed speed ‘humps’.VicOn Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 8:04 PM Peter Buchthal  wrote:My late father lived till he was 97 and was a big user of his local Council on Aging.  They were fantastic and helped us out is innumerable ways as my late mother suffered from dementia.  My father enjoyed his weekly senior lunch followed by a competitive game of scrabble with a local policeman.  I support all Council on Aging programs, period. What I think the Community Center's committee hasn't yet made the case for is the following:1) Without real average and mean numbers to COA's programs,  I can not get behind the size of program rooms requested to provide all ongoing programs. The COA has only provided min and max numbers with huge variations that make over building very likely.  Lincoln has a tendency to over build, that is why our school is much, much larger than we really needed by any standard.2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon will need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  I have heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside path/bicycle safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings.  3) The arguments for the Hartwell Community Center being made to the town is a bit of a False Choice.  We need to separate building or renovating a Senior Center of the correct size with "If you don't support this project, the town will never get a community center/ senior center that meets its needs."I want to build a new or renovated facility that is the correct size for our Senior Community. I have continuing doubts that it should be on the Hartwell campus.  My late father was a terrible driver and I can't imagine purposefully placing our young children near senior drivers navigating parking lots.  I keep reading in the newspapers that seniors drivers often have unintended accidents  driving into buildings that involve putting their foot down on the gas pedal instead of the brake.   Why are we unnecessarily setting ourselves up for a potential tragedy.Let's stop this rush to build and build a newly renovated Council on Aging somewhere else in town like the Pierce House.Peter Buchthal71 WestonOn Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 12:12 PM sally kindleberger  wrote:Thank you John Gregg for your thoughtful ideas about the Community Center.  We desperately need a Community Center that meets the needs of the whole community.  This Build is a long time coming!  If the town votes on a 50% or even 75% reduction in size from the original proposed 100%it will be a huge mistake.  Programs won't be possible in the smaller spaces.  Why build something that does not meet the needs of the town?  And prices will only increase over time.  If we continue to quibble and bring up the same arguments and the same suggestions over and over, again we will never have a Community Center.  Prices will never come down.  We need to bite the bullet and build a useful space that works for the community.Visit community centers in other towns like Arlington,Bedford, Belmont, and Wellesley,(And yes I know these are towns with bigger populations and more money.)   But we can build something that meets our needs if we just do it.  There are folks in this town with big houses and expensive cars. Let's all dig deep and fund the build.On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 9:44 AM Laura Crosby  wrote:Thanks John , a lot to think about  here. And yes, a good, well researched plan is being picked apart to such a degree that it may never happen. All of Lincoln could benefit greatly from a Community Center.  And it will never cost less than it will if we move forward now. Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 14, 2023, at 7:53 AM, john gregg via Lincoln  wrote:
If you build it 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Linda McMillan]

While I fully support the COA and have been a volunteer for many years, the 
design of the new “Community Center” (at last I looked), does not support one 
of the biggest program needs of seniors, that is, LONELINESS. There are many 
seniors who have lost a spouse, or who live alone for various reasons and are 
lacking connection to other people. Perhaps they don’t feel like signing up for 
an exercise class, or want to learn a new language, or play the ukulele, or 
attend a lecture, but they DO WANT to go to a place where they can see other 
people, maybe even meet someone new, chat, and have a cup of coffee or tea, and 
hang out. They would like comfy chairs, maybe some magazines donated by “the 
community”, and a space where you don’t have to talk in a whisper (like the 
library). A report released this year by the US Surgeon General reported that 
about half of U.S. adults reported experiencing measurable levels of 
loneliness. The report is titled “Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation.”

The Community Center building as currently designed (the last I looked) does 
not have a welcoming, comfortable space like this. They have utilitarian 
“activity rooms” and “lecture rooms”. I realize that building costs have risen 
significantly and that the current cost of construction and renovation pose 
significant challenges, but if the new “Community Center” doesn’t have a space 
to tackle this incredibly important need of seniors, then we are not seeing the 
forest for the trees, and I will not support it.

Linda McMillan
207 Sandy Pond Road

> On Sep 14, 2023, at 12:38 PM, Peter Buchthal  wrote:
> 
> My late father lived till he was 97 and was a big user of his local Council 
> on Aging.  They were fantastic and helped us out is innumerable ways as my 
> late mother suffered from dementia.  My father enjoyed his weekly senior 
> lunch followed by a competitive game of scrabble with a local policeman.  
> 
> I support all Council on Aging programs, period. 
> 
> What I think the Community Center's committee hasn't yet made the case for is 
> the following:
> 
> 1) Without real average and mean numbers to COA's programs,  I can not get 
> behind the size of program rooms requested to provide all ongoing programs. 
> The COA has only provided min and max numbers with huge variations that make 
> over building very likely.  Lincoln has a tendency to over build, that is why 
> our school is much, much larger than we really needed by any standard.
> 
> 2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the 
> pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon will 
> need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  I 
> have heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside 
> path/bicycle safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings.  
> 
> 3) The arguments for the Hartwell Community Center being made to the town is 
> a bit of a False Choice.  We need to separate building or renovating a Senior 
> Center of the correct size with "If you don't support this project, the town 
> will never get a community center/ senior center that meets its needs."
> 
> I want to build a new or renovated facility that is the correct size for our 
> Senior Community. I have continuing doubts that it should be on the Hartwell 
> campus.  My late father was a terrible driver and I can't imagine 
> purposefully placing our young children near senior drivers navigating 
> parking lots.  I keep reading in the newspapers that seniors drivers often 
> have unintended accidents  driving into buildings that involve putting their 
> foot down on the gas pedal instead of the brake.   Why are we unnecessarily 
> setting ourselves up for a potential tragedy.
> 
> Let's stop this rush to build and build a newly renovated Council on Aging 
> somewhere else in town like the Pierce House.
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Buchthal
> 71 Weston
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 12:12 PM sally kindleberger  > wrote:
>> Thank you John Gregg for your thoughtful ideas about the Community Center.  
>> We desperately need a Community Center that meets the needs of the whole 
>> community.  This Build is a long time coming!  If the town votes on a 50% or 
>> even 75% reduction in size from the original proposed 100%
>> it will be a huge mistake.  Programs won't be possible in the smaller 
>> spaces.  Why build something that does not meet the needs of the town?  And 
>> prices will only increase over time.  If we continue to quibble and bring up 
>> the same arguments and the same suggestions over and over, again we will 
>> never have a Community Center.  Prices will never come down.  We need to 
>> bite the bullet and build a useful space that works for the community.
>> Visit community centers in other towns like Arlington,Bedford, Belmont, and 
>> Wellesley,(And yes I know these are towns with bigger populations and more 
>> money.)   But 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Karla Gravis]

According to the Housing Choice Act Grant program website (page 2 in the
link below), grants range from $50K - $300K. The program has only $4M in
funding total for the state, so Lincoln would be competing with other
municipalities for the grants (i.e. we are not even guaranteed the $50k).

*We can hardly count on these grants to fully or even partially pay for
multi-million dollar projects.*

https://www.mass.gov/doc/fy24-housing-choice-grant-program-guidelines/download



>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Allen Vander Meulen 
> Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum
> To: Listserv Listserv 
>
>
> It should be noted that some of the projects in the Andy Wang posted -
> such as the replacement of water pipes (and other Water / Sewage system
> upgrade or repair projects), as well as road paving & improvement, are
> often partially or fully paid-for by grants from the State - or sometimes
> from CPC funds.  They do not impact our property taxes.
>
> Bear in mind that such grants from the State will likely be at risk if we
> do not continue to move forward with the proposed Housing Choice
> Act-related zoning changes, which is a major topic on the agenda at the
> upcoming SOTT meeting.  All these projects impact each other, which is why
> I am very glad I’m not on the Select Board!  And is also why I very much
> appreciate the great job Lincoln’s Government and Administration have done,
> and continue to do: "threading the needle” to help the us successfully
> navigate all these competing and yet highly interconnected needs and
> challenges - not just those at the forefront today, but also preparing for
> those we will need to address in the future.
>
> - Allen Vander Meulen
>
> On Sep 15, 2023, at 09:42, Andy Wang  wrote:
>
> I believe that was provided at the Nov 2022 Special Town meeting. [source
> <https://lincolncommunitycenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/STM-30Nov2022-CCBC.pdf>
> ]
>
> 
> Caveat that with the 'Possible' and 'Select' wiggle room words in the
> title.  I've heard that replacing water pipes is an on-going process.  If
> there is some large failure, that might hit all at once.  I'm not sure if
> that comes out of town budget or the water department, reflected in the
> water rate.  Either way, it comes back to the property owners one way or
> another.
>
> - Andy
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 9:18 AM melinda bruno-smith <
> melindabr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Peter.
>>
>> I agree that point #2 should be addressed at Town meeting.
>>
>> Melinda Bruno-Smith
>>
>> …….2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures
>> in the pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we
>> soon will need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the
>> town.  I have heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and
>> roadside path/bicycle safety  wishes may also require additional town
>> borrowings…..
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Melinda Bruno-Smith
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 15, 2023, at 8:50 AM, V Saleme  wrote:
>>
>> 2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in
>> the pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we
>> soon will need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the
>> town.  I have heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and
>> roadside path/bicycle safety  wishes may also require additional town
>> borrowings.
>> --
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
>> Browse the archives at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>>
>> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
> --
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> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
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Change your subscription settings at 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Allen Vander Meulen]

It should be noted that some of the projects in the Andy Wang posted - such as 
the replacement of water pipes (and other Water / Sewage system upgrade or 
repair projects), as well as road paving & improvement, are often partially or 
fully paid-for by grants from the State - or sometimes from CPC funds.  They do 
not impact our property taxes.

Bear in mind that such grants from the State will likely be at risk if we do 
not continue to move forward with the proposed Housing Choice Act-related 
zoning changes, which is a major topic on the agenda at the upcoming SOTT 
meeting.  All these projects impact each other, which is why I am very glad I’m 
not on the Select Board!  And is also why I very much appreciate the great job 
Lincoln’s Government and Administration have done, and continue to do: 
"threading the needle” to help the us successfully navigate all these competing 
and yet highly interconnected needs and challenges - not just those at the 
forefront today, but also preparing for those we will need to address in the 
future.

- Allen Vander Meulen

> On Sep 15, 2023, at 09:42, Andy Wang  wrote:
> 
> I believe that was provided at the Nov 2022 Special Town meeting. [source 
> ]
> 
> 
> Caveat that with the 'Possible' and 'Select' wiggle room words in the title.  
> I've heard that replacing water pipes is an on-going process.  If there is 
> some large failure, that might hit all at once.  I'm not sure if that comes 
> out of town budget or the water department, reflected in the water rate.  
> Either way, it comes back to the property owners one way or another.
> 
> - Andy
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 9:18 AM melinda bruno-smith  > wrote:
>> Thank you Peter.
>> 
>> I agree that point #2 should be addressed at Town meeting.
>> 
>> Melinda Bruno-Smith
>> 
>> …….2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in 
>> the pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon 
>> will need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  
>> I have heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside 
>> path/bicycle safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings…..
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Melinda Bruno-Smith
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 15, 2023, at 8:50 AM, V Saleme > > wrote:
>> 
>> 2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the 
>> pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon 
>> will need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  
>> I have heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside 
>> path/bicycle safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings.  
>> -- 
>> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org 
>> .
>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
>> Change your subscription settings at 
>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>> 
> -- 
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
> 

-- 
The LincolnTalk mailing list.
To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
Change your subscription settings at 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[melinda bruno-smith]

Thank you Peter.

I agree that point #2 should be addressed at Town meeting.

Melinda Bruno-Smith

…….2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the 
pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon will 
need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  I have 
heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside path/bicycle 
safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings…..

Sent from my iPhone
Melinda Bruno-Smith




On Sep 15, 2023, at 8:50 AM, V Saleme  wrote:

2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the 
pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon will 
need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the town.  I have 
heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and roadside path/bicycle 
safety  wishes may also require additional town borrowings.
-- 
The LincolnTalk mailing list.
To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
Change your subscription settings at 
https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[V Saleme]

The Pierce house?
I seem to recall tennis star, John McEnroe, having an expression for this ;)

I can’t imagine all the families whose kids participate in town events
throughout the year coexisting in the same location - setting aside the
traffic congestion and no doubt, everyone’s favorite proposed speed ‘humps’.

Vic


On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 8:04 PM Peter Buchthal  wrote:

> My late father lived till he was 97 and was a big user of his local
> Council on Aging.  They were fantastic and helped us out is
> innumerable ways as my late mother suffered from dementia.  My father
> enjoyed his weekly senior lunch followed by a competitive game of scrabble
> with a local policeman.
>
> I support all Council on Aging programs, period.
>
> What I think the Community Center's committee hasn't yet made the case for
> is the following:
>
> 1) Without real average and mean numbers to COA's programs,  I can not get
> behind the size of program rooms requested to provide all ongoing programs.
> The COA has only provided min and max numbers with huge variations that
> make over building very likely.  Lincoln has a tendency to over build, that
> is why our school is much, much larger than we really needed by any
> standard.
>
> 2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in
> the pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we
> soon will need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the
> town.  I have heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and
> roadside path/bicycle safety  wishes may also require additional town
> borrowings.
>
> 3) The arguments for the Hartwell Community Center being made to the town
> is a bit of a False Choice.  We need to separate building or renovating a
> Senior Center of the correct size with "If you don't support this project,
> the town will never get a community center/ senior center that meets its
> needs."
>
> I want to build a new or renovated facility that is the correct size for
> our Senior Community. I have continuing doubts that it should be on the
> Hartwell campus.  My late father was a terrible driver and I can't imagine
> purposefully placing our young children near senior drivers navigating
> parking lots.  I keep reading in the newspapers that seniors drivers often
> have unintended accidents  driving into buildings that involve putting
> their foot down on the gas pedal instead of the brake.   Why are we
> unnecessarily setting ourselves up for a potential tragedy.
>
> Let's stop this rush to build and build a newly renovated Council on Aging
> somewhere else in town like the Pierce House.
>
>
>
> Peter Buchthal
> 71 Weston
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 12:12 PM sally kindleberger <
> skindleber...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you John Gregg for your thoughtful ideas about the Community
>> Center.  We desperately need a Community Center that meets the needs of the 
>> *whole
>> community.*  This Build is a long time coming!  If the town votes on a
>> 50% or even 75% reduction in size from the original proposed 100%
>> it will be a huge mistake.  Programs won't be possible in the smaller
>> spaces.  Why build something that does not meet the needs of the town?  And
>> prices will only increase over time.  If we continue to quibble and bring
>> up the same arguments and the same suggestions over and over, again we will
>> never have a Community Center.  Prices will never come down.  We need to
>> bite the bullet and build a useful space that works for the community.
>> Visit community centers in other towns like Arlington,Bedford, Belmont,
>> and Wellesley,(And yes I know these are towns with bigger populations and
>> more money.)   But we can build something that meets our needs if we just
>> do it.  There are folks in this town with big houses and expensive cars.
>> Let's all dig deep and fund the build.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 9:44 AM Laura Crosby 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks John , a lot to think about  here. And yes, a good, well
>>> researched plan is being picked apart to such a degree that it may never
>>> happen. All of Lincoln could benefit greatly from a Community Center.  And
>>> it will never cost less than it will if we move forward now.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 14, 2023, at 7:53 AM, john gregg via Lincoln <
>>> lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> If you build it they will come.
>>>
>>>
>>> You have services but no facility which makes it harder on the Parks and
>>> Rec staff or LEAP to provide quality services to everyone. You build a
>>> school with up to date facilities to help encourage people to move to
>>> Lincoln with children, you provide elderly services to keep families in the
>>> town, or even as families grow older the parents need more assistance and
>>> move back with the kids to help provide the necessary help instead of
>>> living alone. It gives flexibility and leverage to attract people to the
>>> town and then keep those people there 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Peter Buchthal]

My late father lived till he was 97 and was a big user of his local Council
on Aging.  They were fantastic and helped us out is innumerable ways as my
late mother suffered from dementia.  My father enjoyed his weekly senior
lunch followed by a competitive game of scrabble with a local policeman.

I support all Council on Aging programs, period.

What I think the Community Center's committee hasn't yet made the case for
is the following:

1) Without real average and mean numbers to COA's programs,  I can not get
behind the size of program rooms requested to provide all ongoing programs.
The COA has only provided min and max numbers with huge variations that
make over building very likely.  Lincoln has a tendency to over build, that
is why our school is much, much larger than we really needed by any
standard.

2) The town has yet to disclose other competing capital expenditures in the
pipeline for the town's tax resources.  I have heard rumors that we soon
will need to replace the drinking water pipes along many parts of the
town.  I have heard other rumors on lincoln talk, that our repaving and
roadside path/bicycle safety  wishes may also require additional town
borrowings.

3) The arguments for the Hartwell Community Center being made to the town
is a bit of a False Choice.  We need to separate building or renovating a
Senior Center of the correct size with "If you don't support this project,
the town will never get a community center/ senior center that meets its
needs."

I want to build a new or renovated facility that is the correct size for
our Senior Community. I have continuing doubts that it should be on the
Hartwell campus.  My late father was a terrible driver and I can't imagine
purposefully placing our young children near senior drivers navigating
parking lots.  I keep reading in the newspapers that seniors drivers often
have unintended accidents  driving into buildings that involve putting
their foot down on the gas pedal instead of the brake.   Why are we
unnecessarily setting ourselves up for a potential tragedy.

Let's stop this rush to build and build a newly renovated Council on Aging
somewhere else in town like the Pierce House.



Peter Buchthal
71 Weston



On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 12:12 PM sally kindleberger 
wrote:

> Thank you John Gregg for your thoughtful ideas about the Community
> Center.  We desperately need a Community Center that meets the needs of the 
> *whole
> community.*  This Build is a long time coming!  If the town votes on a
> 50% or even 75% reduction in size from the original proposed 100%
> it will be a huge mistake.  Programs won't be possible in the smaller
> spaces.  Why build something that does not meet the needs of the town?  And
> prices will only increase over time.  If we continue to quibble and bring
> up the same arguments and the same suggestions over and over, again we will
> never have a Community Center.  Prices will never come down.  We need to
> bite the bullet and build a useful space that works for the community.
> Visit community centers in other towns like Arlington,Bedford, Belmont,
> and Wellesley,(And yes I know these are towns with bigger populations and
> more money.)   But we can build something that meets our needs if we just
> do it.  There are folks in this town with big houses and expensive cars.
> Let's all dig deep and fund the build.
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 9:44 AM Laura Crosby 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks John , a lot to think about  here. And yes, a good, well
>> researched plan is being picked apart to such a degree that it may never
>> happen. All of Lincoln could benefit greatly from a Community Center.  And
>> it will never cost less than it will if we move forward now.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 14, 2023, at 7:53 AM, john gregg via Lincoln <
>> lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> If you build it they will come.
>>
>>
>> You have services but no facility which makes it harder on the Parks and
>> Rec staff or LEAP to provide quality services to everyone. You build a
>> school with up to date facilities to help encourage people to move to
>> Lincoln with children, you provide elderly services to keep families in the
>> town, or even as families grow older the parents need more assistance and
>> move back with the kids to help provide the necessary help instead of
>> living alone. It gives flexibility and leverage to attract people to the
>> town and then keep those people there instead of chasing people away
>> because the overall view of Lincoln is they are concerned with themselves,
>> not others, not a very diverse community of people live in the town.
>>
>> Lincoln is a beautiful town, lots of history. close to Boston but from
>> the outside people do not want to move to Lincoln unless you fit the
>> criteria. School population is going down for several reasons, we moved to
>> Lincoln for the school and LSHS. My belief is that Lincoln needs to take a
>> look in the mirror and ask if they just want to be a 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Wendy & Lem Kusik]

thank you for such a thoughtful and positive peice. Your quote from Einstein was right on the mark. Our town needs a community center.Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 14, 2023, at 12:12 PM, sally kindleberger  wrote:Thank you John Gregg for your thoughtful ideas about the Community Center.  We desperately need a Community Center that meets the needs of the whole community.  This Build is a long time coming!  If the town votes on a 50% or even 75% reduction in size from the original proposed 100%it will be a huge mistake.  Programs won't be possible in the smaller spaces.  Why build something that does not meet the needs of the town?  And prices will only increase over time.  If we continue to quibble and bring up the same arguments and the same suggestions over and over, again we will never have a Community Center.  Prices will never come down.  We need to bite the bullet and build a useful space that works for the community.Visit community centers in other towns like Arlington,Bedford, Belmont, and Wellesley,(And yes I know these are towns with bigger populations and more money.)   But we can build something that meets our needs if we just do it.  There are folks in this town with big houses and expensive cars. Let's all dig deep and fund the build.On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 9:44 AM Laura Crosby  wrote:Thanks John , a lot to think about  here. And yes, a good, well researched plan is being picked apart to such a degree that it may never happen. All of Lincoln could benefit greatly from a Community Center.  And it will never cost less than it will if we move forward now. Sent from my iPhoneOn Sep 14, 2023, at 7:53 AM, john gregg via Lincoln  wrote:
If you build it they will come. You have services but no facility which makes it harder on the Parks and Rec staff or LEAP to provide quality services to everyone. You build a school with up to date facilities to help encourage people to move to Lincoln with children, you provide elderly services to keep families in the town, or even as families grow older the parents need more assistance and move back with the kids to help provide the necessary help instead of living alone. It gives flexibility and leverage to attract people to the town and then keep those people there instead of chasing people away because the overall view of Lincoln is they are concerned with themselves, not others, not a very diverse community of people live in the town. Lincoln is a beautiful town, lots of history. close to Boston but from the outside people do not want to move to Lincoln unless you fit the criteria. School population is going down for several reasons, we moved to Lincoln for the school and LSHS. My belief is that Lincoln needs to take a look in the mirror and ask if they just want to be a town where the priority is to continue to make Lincoln less welcoming to others or make it more welcoming. There is no need to run more studies, or take more census, the need is to understand and provide the necessary services for children, parents, and the elderly of the Town a Community Center makes Lincoln on par with other surrounding towns to be more attractive to move into. If this was a discussion to put in EV Charging stations at the Commuter Rail Parking lot for $10 Million dollars the project would already be under way, why is it that hard to commit to provide positive services to the community in general and society as a whole? A Community Center to house programs for the elderly, LEAP facility for after school programs that help working parents, a central housing area for Parks and Rec Staff to provide other quality services makes a community more centralized and welcoming. This entire discussion is eerily similar to the School discussion, at that did not end well.“ The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results” – Albert Einstein Thanks,John01776





On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 07:08:44 PM EDT, Peter Buchthal  wrote:



Lynne, Karla and David make excellent points.  One of the challenges the town faces with the community center is the lack of trust in the building committee to size a COA/ParksRec building to meet our needs and not our wishes.  I believe the major hill the community is trying to climb is how many seniors actually use the facilities today.Parks and Recreation has provided actual attendance figures for all of the activities.  COA has provided only maximum and minimum numbers without means or averages.   The maximum and minimums for a particular activity can vary greatly with the maximum being sometimes triple the minimum headcount.  For residents who are not awash in money, in may be hard to justify building a larger council on aging  for the occasional activities that may need more 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[sally kindleberger]

Thank you John Gregg for your thoughtful ideas about the Community Center.
We desperately need a Community Center that meets the needs of the *whole
community.*  This Build is a long time coming!  If the town votes on a 50%
or even 75% reduction in size from the original proposed 100%
it will be a huge mistake.  Programs won't be possible in the smaller
spaces.  Why build something that does not meet the needs of the town?  And
prices will only increase over time.  If we continue to quibble and bring
up the same arguments and the same suggestions over and over, again we will
never have a Community Center.  Prices will never come down.  We need to
bite the bullet and build a useful space that works for the community.
Visit community centers in other towns like Arlington,Bedford, Belmont, and
Wellesley,(And yes I know these are towns with bigger populations and more
money.)   But we can build something that meets our needs if we just do
it.  There are folks in this town with big houses and expensive cars. Let's
all dig deep and fund the build.

On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 9:44 AM Laura Crosby 
wrote:

> Thanks John , a lot to think about  here. And yes, a good, well researched
> plan is being picked apart to such a degree that it may never happen. All
> of Lincoln could benefit greatly from a Community Center.  And it will
> never cost less than it will if we move forward now.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 14, 2023, at 7:53 AM, john gregg via Lincoln <
> lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:
>
> 
> If you build it they will come.
>
>
> You have services but no facility which makes it harder on the Parks and
> Rec staff or LEAP to provide quality services to everyone. You build a
> school with up to date facilities to help encourage people to move to
> Lincoln with children, you provide elderly services to keep families in the
> town, or even as families grow older the parents need more assistance and
> move back with the kids to help provide the necessary help instead of
> living alone. It gives flexibility and leverage to attract people to the
> town and then keep those people there instead of chasing people away
> because the overall view of Lincoln is they are concerned with themselves,
> not others, not a very diverse community of people live in the town.
>
> Lincoln is a beautiful town, lots of history. close to Boston but from the
> outside people do not want to move to Lincoln unless you fit the criteria.
> School population is going down for several reasons, we moved to Lincoln
> for the school and LSHS. My belief is that Lincoln needs to take a look in
> the mirror and ask if they just want to be a town where the priority is to
> continue to make Lincoln less welcoming to others or make it more
> welcoming. There is no need to run more studies, or take more census, the
> need is to understand and provide the necessary services for children,
> parents, and the elderly of the Town a Community Center makes Lincoln on
> par with other surrounding towns to be more attractive to move into.
>
> If this was a discussion to put in EV Charging stations at the Commuter
> Rail Parking lot for $10 Million dollars the project would already be under
> way, why is it that hard to commit to provide positive services to the
> community in general and society as a whole? A Community Center to house
> programs for the elderly, LEAP facility for after school programs that help
> working parents, a central housing area for Parks and Rec Staff to provide
> other quality services makes a community more centralized and welcoming.
> This entire discussion is eerily similar to the School discussion, at that
> did not end well.
>
> “ The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again,
> but expecting different results” – Albert Einstein
>
> Thanks,
> John
> 01776
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 07:08:44 PM EDT, Peter Buchthal <
> pbucht...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Lynne, Karla and David make excellent points.  One of the challenges the
> town faces with the community center is the lack of trust in the building
> committee to size
> a COA/ParksRec building to meet our needs and not our wishes.  I believe
> the major hill the community is trying to climb is how many seniors
> actually use the facilities today.
> Parks and Recreation has provided actual attendance figures for all of the
> activities.  COA has provided only maximum and minimum numbers without
> means or averages.   The maximum and minimums for a particular activity can
> vary greatly with the maximum being sometimes triple the minimum
> headcount.  For residents who are not awash in money, in may be hard to
> justify building a larger council on aging  for the occasional activities
> that may need more space once every three months.   Wayland, a town with
> twice the senior population compared to Lincoln  just built a new Senior
> Center for 11 Million dollars.  Their building that meets the needs of a
> town with twice the senior 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Laura Crosby]

Thanks John , a lot to think about  here. And yes, a good, well researched plan 
is being picked apart to such a degree that it may never happen. All of Lincoln 
could benefit greatly from a Community Center.  And it will never cost less 
than it will if we move forward now. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 14, 2023, at 7:53 AM, john gregg via Lincoln  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> If you build it they will come. 
> 
> 
> You have services but no facility which makes it harder on the Parks and Rec 
> staff or LEAP to provide quality services to everyone. You build a school 
> with up to date facilities to help encourage people to move to Lincoln with 
> children, you provide elderly services to keep families in the town, or even 
> as families grow older the parents need more assistance and move back with 
> the kids to help provide the necessary help instead of living alone. It gives 
> flexibility and leverage to attract people to the town and then keep those 
> people there instead of chasing people away because the overall view of 
> Lincoln is they are concerned with themselves, not others, not a very diverse 
> community of people live in the town. 
> 
> Lincoln is a beautiful town, lots of history. close to Boston but from the 
> outside people do not want to move to Lincoln unless you fit the criteria. 
> School population is going down for several reasons, we moved to Lincoln for 
> the school and LSHS. My belief is that Lincoln needs to take a look in the 
> mirror and ask if they just want to be a town where the priority is to 
> continue to make Lincoln less welcoming to others or make it more welcoming. 
> There is no need to run more studies, or take more census, the need is to 
> understand and provide the necessary services for children, parents, and the 
> elderly of the Town a Community Center makes Lincoln on par with other 
> surrounding towns to be more attractive to move into. 
> 
> If this was a discussion to put in EV Charging stations at the Commuter Rail 
> Parking lot for $10 Million dollars the project would already be under way, 
> why is it that hard to commit to provide positive services to the community 
> in general and society as a whole? A Community Center to house programs for 
> the elderly, LEAP facility for after school programs that help working 
> parents, a central housing area for Parks and Rec Staff to provide other 
> quality services makes a community more centralized and welcoming. This 
> entire discussion is eerily similar to the School discussion, at that did not 
> end well.
> 
> “ The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but 
> expecting different results” – Albert Einstein 
> 
> Thanks,
> John
> 01776
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 07:08:44 PM EDT, Peter Buchthal 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Lynne, Karla and David make excellent points.  One of the challenges the town 
> faces with the community center is the lack of trust in the building 
> committee to size 
> a COA/ParksRec building to meet our needs and not our wishes.  I believe the 
> major hill the community is trying to climb is how many seniors actually use 
> the facilities today.
> Parks and Recreation has provided actual attendance figures for all of the 
> activities.  COA has provided only maximum and minimum numbers without means 
> or averages.   The maximum and minimums for a particular activity can vary 
> greatly with the maximum being sometimes triple the minimum headcount.  For 
> residents who are not awash in money, in may be hard to justify building a 
> larger council on aging  for the occasional activities that may need more 
> space once every three months.   Wayland, a town with twice the senior 
> population compared to Lincoln  just built a new Senior Center for 11 Million 
> dollars.  Their building that meets the needs of a town with twice the senior 
> population is 12,900 square feet.  Our small, medium and large Community 
> Center proposals are 16K, 18K or 20+k.
> 
> I believe the Building Committee should ask Fincom or the Select board to 
> fund a consultant to provide average and mean numbers from the COA computer 
> system so that the community can see the actual consistent usage of today's 
> COA.  As someone who is familiar with computers, I believe the town could 
> easily also find several residents (representing different groups within the 
> town) who might volunteer their time to provide the needed computer expertise 
> to extract the needed average and mean numbers from COAs computer system and 
> generate more meaningful usage statistics for the community.
> 
> Let's not overbuild a public building again.  
> 
> Peter Buchthal
> Weston Rd.
> 
> 
> -- 
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> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
> 
-- 
The LincolnTalk mailing 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[john gregg via Lincoln]

 If you build it they will come. 

You have services but no facility which makes it harder on the Parks and Rec 
staff or LEAP to provide quality services to everyone. You build a school with 
up to date facilities to help encourage people to move to Lincoln with 
children, you provide elderly services to keep families in the town, or even as 
families grow older the parents need more assistance and move back with the 
kids to help provide the necessary help instead of living alone. It gives 
flexibility and leverage to attract people to the town and then keep those 
people there instead of chasing people away because the overall view of Lincoln 
is they are concerned with themselves, not others, not a very diverse community 
of people live in the town. 
Lincoln is a beautiful town, lots of history. close to Boston but from the 
outside people do not want to move to Lincoln unless you fit the criteria. 
School population is going down for several reasons, we moved to Lincoln for 
the school and LSHS. My belief is that Lincoln needs to take a look in the 
mirror and ask if they just want to be a town where the priority is to continue 
to make Lincoln less welcoming to others or make it more welcoming. There is no 
need to run more studies, or take more census, the need is to understand and 
provide the necessary services for children, parents, and the elderly of the 
Town a Community Center makes Lincoln on par with other surrounding towns to be 
more attractive to move into. 
If this was a discussion to put in EV Charging stations at the Commuter Rail 
Parking lot for $10 Million dollars the project would already be under way, why 
is it that hard to commit to provide positive services to the community in 
general and society as a whole? A Community Center to house programs for the 
elderly, LEAP facility for after school programs that help working parents, a 
central housing area for Parks and Rec Staff to provide other quality services 
makes a community more centralized and welcoming. This entire discussion is 
eerily similar to the School discussion, at that did not end well.
“ The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but 
expecting different results” – Albert Einstein 

Thanks,John01776

On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 07:08:44 PM EDT, Peter Buchthal 
 wrote:  
 
 Lynne, Karla and David make excellent points.  One of the challenges the town 
faces with the community center is the lack of trust in the building committee 
to size a COA/ParksRec building to meet our needs and not our wishes.  I 
believe the major hill the community is trying to climb is how many seniors 
actually use the facilities today.Parks and Recreation has provided actual 
attendance figures for all of the activities.  COA has provided only maximum 
and minimum numbers without means or averages.   The maximum and minimums for a 
particular activity can vary greatly with the maximum being sometimes triple 
the minimum headcount.  For residents who are not awash in money, in may be 
hard to justify building a larger council on aging  for the occasional 
activities that may need more space once every three months.   Wayland, a town 
with twice the senior population compared to Lincoln  just built a new Senior 
Center for 11 Million dollars.  Their building that meets the needs of a town 
with twice the senior population is 12,900 square feet.  Our small, medium and 
large Community Center proposals are 16K, 18K or 20+k.
I believe the Building Committee should ask Fincom or the Select board to fund 
a consultant to provide average and mean numbers from the COA computer system 
so that the community can see the actual consistent usage of today's COA.  As 
someone who is familiar with computers, I believe the town could easily also 
find several residents (representing different groups within the town) who 
might volunteer their time to provide the needed computer expertise to extract 
the needed average and mean numbers from COAs computer system and generate more 
meaningful usage statistics for the community.
Let's not overbuild a public building again.  
Peter BuchthalWeston Rd.

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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Laura Crosby]

Agree

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2023, at 8:57 PM, Ruth Ann Hendrickson  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I urge people not to put this project off. The escalation in building costs 
> in the last few years has been breathtaking.  If we put it off, we won't be 
> able to afford it at all. The plan is not yet final. The Committee will hear 
> and act on your ideas. Give them a chance. 
> 
> I am strongly in favor of separating out the costs for upgrading the Leap 
> building. The charge to the Community Center Committee did not include the 
> $3,000,000 needed to do this work. Reducing the size of the Community Center 
> because we have to include this unforeseen project is not fair. I can see 
> that doing the work on the Leap building at the same time as the Community 
> Center will save the town a lot of cost, but I think that the Leap Project 
> should be presented separately by the School Committee and voted separately.
> 
> Ruth Ann Hendrickson
> (She, her)
> On 9/13/2023 7:39 AM, Lynn DeLisi, M.D. via Lincoln wrote:
>> Wednesday September 13, 2023
>> 
>> Dear LT,
>> 
>> I am posting my personal views, not as a member of the Town Planning Board, 
>> but as one resident of this unique town. I want to thank the Community 
>> Center Building Committee and the Architects for their hard work for our 
>> Town over the last several months. However, after listening to the Community 
>> Center Building Committee’s Forum last evening, it has become very clear to 
>> me that the Town’s vision to improve facilities for the COA cannot be 
>> accomplished on the school site as “selected” by residents of the Town a few 
>> years ago. We hired excellent architects who have listened to the committee 
>> and the public now for several months and have come up with 3+ major plans, 
>> recommending the middle priced one that is at 75% the original very 
>> expensive estimate given to us last year. The lowest price option was shown 
>> to be inadequate for COA activities and would be only as one person said 
>> “moving the COA from one deficient site to another”.
>> 
>> It was also clear that remaining on the school site means we “must”, 
>> according to the committee leadership, include in our community center 
>> renovating or rebuilding space for the after school program called “LEAP”, 
>> despite many residents giving input that this program is the school’s 
>> responsibility and not that of a Community Center. In addition there are 
>> safety issues related to traffic patterns, increased cars and children 
>> walking or on bikes to get to and from school and activities.
>> 
>> Furthermore, it was clear from the lack of discussion on the topic last 
>> night, that there was no SERIOUS consideration by the committee of other 
>> sites throughout Town that could be appropriate for a community center, 
>> particularly COA functions. While Bemis Hall and the Pierce House have been 
>> visited, no details about what it would take to renovate them have been 
>> presented, nor has anyone taken the time to investigate whether the Town 
>> could use other buildings or space, historic or otherwise, along Lincoln Rd 
>> or nearby and renovate any of them for a community center that at least 
>> houses the COA. Mainly, the committee remains on the school campus because 
>> it is the best place for Parks and Rec to be and many people want to mix 
>> generations in a “Community Center for All”.
>> 
>> I would like to propose that a new Town Committee be formed of concerned 
>> residents, who would still like to see the Town have a safe and up-to-date 
>> improved space for a COA, to conduct activities, but do not want taxes 
>> raised any further, and be a committee that SERIOUSLY examines existing 
>> sites that could be renovated, even if it means the cost of purchasing them 
>> for the Town. I would be happy to serve on such a committee. In the mean 
>> time until this committee does its work, we should put the Building 
>> Committee and architects on hold and not have a special Town Meeting to vote 
>> on the School site options in December. When Town’s residents selected the 
>> school site as the “best” for a community center, they did not know what we 
>> know now.
>> 
>> Lynn DeLisi
>> 
>> 125 South Great Rd
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> -- 
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> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
> 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Barbara Low]

Agreed.


Barbara Low

Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>

From: Lincoln  on behalf of Ruth Ann 
Hendrickson 
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 8:57:30 PM
To: Listserv, Listserv 
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum


I urge people not to put this project off. The escalation in building costs in 
the last few years has been breathtaking.  If we put it off, we won't be able 
to afford it at all. The plan is not yet final. The Committee will hear and act 
on your ideas. Give them a chance.

I am strongly in favor of separating out the costs for upgrading the Leap 
building. The charge to the Community Center Committee did not include the 
$3,000,000 needed to do this work. Reducing the size of the Community Center 
because we have to include this unforeseen project is not fair. I can see that 
doing the work on the Leap building at the same time as the Community Center 
will save the town a lot of cost, but I think that the Leap Project should be 
presented separately by the School Committee and voted separately.

Ruth Ann Hendrickson
(She, her)

On 9/13/2023 7:39 AM, Lynn DeLisi, M.D. via Lincoln wrote:

Wednesday September 13, 2023

Dear LT,

I am posting my personal views, not as a member of the Town Planning Board, but 
as one resident of this unique town. I want to thank the Community Center 
Building Committee and the Architects for their hard work for our Town over the 
last several months. However, after listening to the Community Center Building 
Committee’s Forum last evening, it has become very clear to me that the Town’s 
vision to improve facilities for the COA cannot be accomplished on the school 
site as “selected” by residents of the Town a few years ago. We hired excellent 
architects who have listened to the committee and the public now for several 
months and have come up with 3+ major plans, recommending the middle priced one 
that is at 75% the original very expensive estimate given to us last year. The 
lowest price option was shown to be inadequate for COA activities and would be 
only as one person said “moving the COA from one deficient site to another”.

It was also clear that remaining on the school site means we “must”, according 
to the committee leadership, include in our community center renovating or 
rebuilding space for the after school program called “LEAP”, despite many 
residents giving input that this program is the school’s responsibility and not 
that of a Community Center. In addition there are safety issues related to 
traffic patterns, increased cars and children walking or on bikes to get to and 
from school and activities.

Furthermore, it was clear from the lack of discussion on the topic last night, 
that there was no SERIOUS consideration by the committee of other sites 
throughout Town that could be appropriate for a community center, particularly 
COA functions. While Bemis Hall and the Pierce House have been visited, no 
details about what it would take to renovate them have been presented, nor has 
anyone taken the time to investigate whether the Town could use other buildings 
or space, historic or otherwise, along Lincoln Rd or nearby and renovate any of 
them for a community center that at least houses the COA. Mainly, the committee 
remains on the school campus because it is the best place for Parks and Rec to 
be and many people want to mix generations in a “Community Center for All”.

I would like to propose that a new Town Committee be formed of concerned 
residents, who would still like to see the Town have a safe and up-to-date 
improved space for a COA, to conduct activities, but do not want taxes raised 
any further, and be a committee that SERIOUSLY examines existing sites that 
could be renovated, even if it means the cost of purchasing them for the Town. 
I would be happy to serve on such a committee. In the mean time until this 
committee does its work, we should put the Building Committee and architects on 
hold and not have a special Town Meeting to vote on the School site options in 
December. When Town’s residents selected the school site as the “best” for a 
community center, they did not know what we know now.

Lynn DeLisi

125 South Great Rd



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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Ruth Ann Hendrickson]

I urge people not to put this project off. The escalation in building 
costs in the last few years has been breathtaking.  If we put it off, we 
won't be able to afford it at all. The plan is not yet final. The 
Committee will hear and act on your ideas. Give them a chance.


I am strongly in favor of separating out the costs for upgrading the 
Leap building. The charge to the Community Center Committee did not 
include the $3,000,000 needed to do this work. Reducing the size of the 
Community Center because we have to include this unforeseen project is 
not fair. I can see that doing the work on the Leap building at the same 
time as the Community Center will save the town a lot of cost, but I 
think that the Leap Project should be presented separately by the School 
Committee and voted separately.


Ruth Ann Hendrickson
(She, her)

On 9/13/2023 7:39 AM, Lynn DeLisi, M.D. via Lincoln wrote:


Wednesday September 13, 2023

Dear LT,

I am posting my personal views, not as a member of the Town Planning 
Board, but as one resident of this unique town. I want to thank the 
Community Center Building Committee and the Architects for their hard 
work for our Town over the last several months. However, after 
listening to the Community Center Building Committee’s Forum last 
evening, it has become very clear to me that the Town’s vision to 
improve facilities for the COA cannot be accomplished on the school 
site as “selected” by residents of the Town a few years ago. We hired 
excellent architects who have listened to the committee and the public 
now for several months and have come up with 3+ major plans, 
recommending the middle priced one that is at 75% the original very 
expensive estimate given to us last year. The lowest price option was 
shown to be inadequate for COA activities and would be only as one 
person said “moving the COA from one deficient site to another”.


It was also clear that remaining on the school site means we “must”, 
according to the committee leadership, include in our community center 
renovating or rebuilding space for the after school program called 
“LEAP”, despite many residents giving input that this program is the 
school’s responsibility and not that of a Community Center. In 
addition there are safety issues related to traffic patterns, 
increased cars and children walking or on bikes to get to and from 
school and activities.


Furthermore, it was clear from the lack of discussion on the topic 
last night, that there was no SERIOUS consideration by the committee 
of other sites throughout Town that could be appropriate for a 
community center, particularly COA functions. While Bemis Hall and the 
Pierce House have been visited, no details about what it would take to 
renovate them have been presented, nor has anyone taken the time to 
investigate whether the Town could use other buildings or space, 
historic or otherwise, along Lincoln Rd or nearby and renovate any of 
them for a community center that at least houses the COA. Mainly, the 
committee remains on the school campus because it is the best place 
for Parks and Rec to be and many people want to mix generations in a 
“Community Center for All”.


I would like to propose that a new Town Committee be formed of 
concerned residents, who would still like to see the Town have a safe 
and up-to-date improved space for a COA, to conduct activities, but do 
not want taxes raised any further, and be a committee that SERIOUSLY 
examines existing sites that could be renovated, even if it means the 
cost of purchasing them for the Town. I would be happy to serve on 
such a committee. In the mean time until this committee does its work, 
we should put the Building Committee and architects on hold and not 
have a special Town Meeting to vote on the School site options in 
December. When Town’s residents selected the school site as the “best” 
for a community center, they did not know what we know now.


Lynn DeLisi

125 South Great Rd


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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[john gregg via Lincoln]

 
Hello Lincoln,
As a resident of the Town of Lincoln for @20 years who now resides in 01776 
I can tell you it was always a struggle to read these discussions and know my 
voice is not really wanted. It is not what the town expects to have someone who 
gives a view that overturns the apple cart. So here I go again for the last 
time. 
Lincoln needs a Community Center, period. LEAP is a great program for 
working parents, my son was there for the early years and had a GREAT 
experience. The staff has always been at the highest level of care to the kids, 
including kids in sports, arts, and whatever other activities are needed for an 
afterschool program. People want to discuss the school commitment but yet 
forget the TOWN rejected State help to make it happen many years ago and ended 
up having to pay out of pocket to build a school that needed to be built. Even 
then they built as cheap as they could by building on the existing 
foundation(still @$93 Million dollars). So now we want to talk about a 
Community Center that will assist everyone. I have witnessed families who 
needed help in the Town suffer because they did not have these types of 
resources to provide a community area, shuttling people to Concord or Lexington 
is not a real option. So PAYING OUT OF POCKET FOR PRIVATE CARE was the only 
option to those families who pay taxes and respect the town. My guess is many 
who experience the same wish they had an area where people could meet to have a 
community atmosphere to help assume some of those costs and allow their parents 
to have a group who came out of the same experiences in life. Reminiscing on 
your life is part of getting old, sharing those experiences with others helps 
them stay young. 
People want to talk and talk and talk about solutions but not realize the 
real problem is not addressing the fact the problem is the community that does 
not want to help address the issues on the table. I defer to people like John 
Mendelson on the road issue (sorry John but I know you are best to inform the 
community on that issue) because he knows the real issues about bikes and the 
roads in Lincoln, but he has to resort to sarcasm to make his point.  If 
Lincoln cared about the people more than the land it resides on it would say 
they want to offer a sustainable center for the community that is not a garden 
or saving the frogs or not allowing planes to take off or land at Hanscom. If 
the community really cared it would have built a new school BEFORE the ceilings 
leaked water on a fire detector at the front desk area and the toilets flooded 
on a regular basis as I PERSONALLY witnessed as my son progressed from Smith to 
Brooks where he was able to spend one year in the new facility which still did 
not build a new basketball court surface in the Brooks Gym. 
    My grandfather used a riddle that he shared with all of his grandkids (and 
yes I all know this was not his creation but from Greek Mythology): What has 
one voice but goes on four legs in the morning, two in the afternoon, and three 
in the evening? 
He taught us a lesson that we understood as he suffered from Alzheimer's 
and my grandmother had to care for him which eventually took years and time off 
of her great and kind life. It is OUR job in society to plant the tree and care 
for our children and the elderly and that means providing a Community Center 
and cover the costs I am sure many in the town can afford. My suggestion is the 
Town and the people figure out how to plant a tree to provide the shade for 
those who will become old at some point by paying when they can, because as a 
Town you kicked the pooch on the School issue and kids suffered because the 
people of the Town could not realize a community means more than your garden 
and frogs. Do not make that mistake again, work as a community to figure out 
the solution and it does not mean putting the elderly in Bemis Hall basement 
and the LEAP kids in the attic of Pierce House. 


    

All the Best,John Gregg01776
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Peter Buchthal]

Lynne, Karla and David make excellent points.  One of the challenges the
town faces with the community center is the lack of trust in the building
committee to size
a COA/ParksRec building to meet our needs and not our wishes.  I believe
the major hill the community is trying to climb is how many seniors
actually use the facilities today.
Parks and Recreation has provided actual attendance figures for all of the
activities.  COA has provided only maximum and minimum numbers without
means or averages.   The maximum and minimums for a particular activity can
vary greatly with the maximum being sometimes triple the minimum
headcount.  For residents who are not awash in money, in may be hard to
justify building a larger council on aging  for the occasional activities
that may need more space once every three months.   Wayland, a town with
twice the senior population compared to Lincoln  just built a new Senior
Center for 11 Million dollars.  Their building that meets the needs of a
town with twice the senior population is 12,900 square feet.  Our small,
medium and large Community Center proposals are 16K, 18K or 20+k.

I believe the Building Committee should ask Fincom or the Select board to
fund a consultant to provide average and mean numbers from the COA computer
system so that the community can see the actual consistent usage of today's
COA.  As someone who is familiar with computers, I believe the town could
easily also find several residents (representing different groups within
the town) who might volunteer their time to provide the needed computer
expertise to extract the needed average and mean numbers from COAs computer
system and generate more meaningful usage statistics for the community.

Let's not overbuild a public building again.

Peter Buchthal
Weston Rd.


On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 3:13 PM Michael Dembowski 
wrote:

> Reinforcing Lynne's point - there are not insignificant costs req'd of
> re-use of existing buildings- especially those anticipating assembly type
> spaces with higher use and occupancy.
> These start w/ the design team fees for professional assessment and
> recommendations to which cost estimates must be produced. The various
> building system upgrades required to meet and satisfy current building,
> energy, plumbing codes and more oftentimes (quite easily) exceed the
> threshold by which MA Building Code then (rightfully so) requires
> accessibility upgrades- including improvements to site, entries,
> provision/install of an accessible elevator, toilet room resizing for added
> fixtures and increased clearances, new building and room signage, revised
> mounting height of fire alarm devices, light switches throughout -
> and more. None of this invalidates the potential reuse of existing
> buildings, only the thinking that this alternative is a 'slam-dunk' for
> significant cost savings.
> Michael Dembowski
> Conant Road
>
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 2:12 PM llas902551--- via Lincoln <
> lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:
>
>> To those interested. All available  existing town bldgs have been looked
>> at MULTIPLE TIMES and need much renovation at considerable expense.
>> Unfortunately because not only LEAP but P need space. So the cost has
>> now increased.
>> By using other bldgs their is rent and owner requirements.  And would not
>> belong to town.
>> And Their are many state/ town / school requirements at the ONLY sight
>> available on school grounds.
>> I'll add that the planning of the CC was well thought out for many yrs .
>> Hopefully when more of you need elder services we will have an appropriate
>> space.
>> Thank you.
>> Lynne LaSpina  FLCOA & HS
>> Sent from AOL on Android
>> 
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 10:42 AM, Forest Brown
>>  wrote:
>> --
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Michael Dembowski]

Reinforcing Lynne's point - there are not insignificant costs req'd of
re-use of existing buildings- especially those anticipating assembly type
spaces with higher use and occupancy.
These start w/ the design team fees for professional assessment and
recommendations to which cost estimates must be produced. The various
building system upgrades required to meet and satisfy current building,
energy, plumbing codes and more oftentimes (quite easily) exceed the
threshold by which MA Building Code then (rightfully so) requires
accessibility upgrades- including improvements to site, entries,
provision/install of an accessible elevator, toilet room resizing for added
fixtures and increased clearances, new building and room signage, revised
mounting height of fire alarm devices, light switches throughout -
and more. None of this invalidates the potential reuse of existing
buildings, only the thinking that this alternative is a 'slam-dunk' for
significant cost savings.
Michael Dembowski
Conant Road

On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 2:12 PM llas902551--- via Lincoln <
lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:

> To those interested. All available  existing town bldgs have been looked
> at MULTIPLE TIMES and need much renovation at considerable expense.
> Unfortunately because not only LEAP but P need space. So the cost has
> now increased.
> By using other bldgs their is rent and owner requirements.  And would not
> belong to town.
> And Their are many state/ town / school requirements at the ONLY sight
> available on school grounds.
> I'll add that the planning of the CC was well thought out for many yrs .
> Hopefully when more of you need elder services we will have an appropriate
> space.
> Thank you.
> Lynne LaSpina  FLCOA & HS
> Sent from AOL on Android
> 
>
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 10:42 AM, Forest Brown
>  wrote:
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
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> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Bijoy Misra]

As I noticed during the School project, there is a strong
over-building lobby in town.  People think that large projects
will add value to property etc (possibly does) .  Some sell and leave.
Let us be conservative, let us not urbanize the town.
I appeal to the leaders to contain the costs.
Best regards,
Bijoy Misra

On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 2:15 PM Karla Gravis  wrote:

> The 2015 study looked at building a new, all-in community center at each
> site. What we need now is to look at supplementing activities in other
> sites around town. The charge from the November 2022 town meeting
> specifically mentions this as an option for the committee. Voters assumed
> the committee would demonstrate a good faith effort to do so, but this
> hasn't happened. We need to remember that even if we build a new community
> center, we will still need to maintain Bemis Hall and Pierce House. These
> costs are not included in the current ICON estimates.
>
> I have attended quite a few of the CCBC meetings, so I am not new to the
> process. To me, the main difficulty is that we are on the path to
> overbuilding, again. According to the CCBC's own benchmarking, Wayland
> (with double our population and double our number of seniors per the CCBC)
> has managed to approve a project with a price tag that is less than the
> cheapest option being evaluated for Lincoln. They managed this by hosting a
> portion of their activities in locations around town. We should follow
> their example.
>
>>
>> *Cc:* Listserv Listserv 
>>
>> *Subject:* *Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum*
>>
>> Lynn,
>> Thanks for your interest in the Community Center.  It is clear you are very
>> new to the program.  Please visit the CCBC website where you will find the
>> final reports for the
>>  2015 Study Committee.  Five sites in Town were studied, design options
>> identified and costed ( in 2015 construction cost dollars):
>> Bemis Hall, Pierce House, Hartwell, Lincoln Station and DPW site.
>> 2016 Campus Master Planning Committee - Evaluated the impact of siting the
>> CC on the school campus.
>> 2018 CCPPDC with actual designs for buildings at the Hartwell site.
>> The charge of the current committee doesn't include revisiting these other
>> sites.
>> Please read the reports.
>> We have been challenged by very real needs on that site posed by the LEAP
>> program, but our PRIMARY DIFFICULTY relates to the astronomical escalation
>> of construction costs  ( totally out of our control), and the severe
>> restraints imposed by the Town to look for lower cost options.  Even our
>> "100%" option provides way less than what was presented in 2018.
>> Dilla Tingley
>> COA Board, CCBC Committee Member
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Forest Brown 
>>> *Date:* September 13, 2023 at 10:42:11 AM EDT
>>> *To:* "Lynn DeLisi, M.D." 
>>> *Cc:* Listserv Listserv 
>>> *Subject:* *Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum*
>>>
>>> 
>>> Dear Lynn,
>>>
>>> Thank you so much for thoughtfully describing your perspective. I was
>>> also wondering about improving upon preexisting buildings as an
>>> alternative. I am in complete agreement with what you’ve shared here. I
>>> appreciate you willing to serve on behalf of other residents who feel the
>>> same way.
>>>
>>> Becca
>>>
>>> On Sep 13, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Lynn DeLisi, M.D. via Lincoln <
>>> lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Wednesday September 13, 2023
>>>
>>> Dear LT,
>>>
>>> I am posting my personal views, not as a member of the Town Planning
>>> Board, but as one resident of this unique town. I want to thank the
>>> Community Center Building Committee and the Architects for their hard work
>>> for our Town over the last several months. However, after listening to the
>>> Community Center Building Committee’s Forum last evening, it has become
>>> very clear to me that the Town’s vision to improve facilities for the COA
>>> cannot be accomplished on the school site as “selected” by residents of the
>>> Town a few years ago. We hired excellent architects who have listened to
>>> the committee and the public now for several months and have come up with
>>> 3+ major plans, recommending the middle priced one that is at 75% the
>>> original very expensive estimate given to us last year. The lowest price
>>> option was shown to be inadequate for COA activities and would be only as
>>

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Karla Gravis]

The 2015 study looked at building a new, all-in community center at each
site. What we need now is to look at supplementing activities in other
sites around town. The charge from the November 2022 town meeting
specifically mentions this as an option for the committee. Voters assumed
the committee would demonstrate a good faith effort to do so, but this
hasn't happened. We need to remember that even if we build a new community
center, we will still need to maintain Bemis Hall and Pierce House. These
costs are not included in the current ICON estimates.

I have attended quite a few of the CCBC meetings, so I am not new to the
process. To me, the main difficulty is that we are on the path to
overbuilding, again. According to the CCBC's own benchmarking, Wayland
(with double our population and double our number of seniors per the CCBC)
has managed to approve a project with a price tag that is less than the
cheapest option being evaluated for Lincoln. They managed this by hosting a
portion of their activities in locations around town. We should follow
their example.

>
> *Cc:* Listserv Listserv 
>
> *Subject:* *Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum*
>
> Lynn,
> Thanks for your interest in the Community Center.  It is clear you are very
> new to the program.  Please visit the CCBC website where you will find the
> final reports for the
>  2015 Study Committee.  Five sites in Town were studied, design options
> identified and costed ( in 2015 construction cost dollars):
> Bemis Hall, Pierce House, Hartwell, Lincoln Station and DPW site.
> 2016 Campus Master Planning Committee - Evaluated the impact of siting the
> CC on the school campus.
> 2018 CCPPDC with actual designs for buildings at the Hartwell site.
> The charge of the current committee doesn't include revisiting these other
> sites.
> Please read the reports.
> We have been challenged by very real needs on that site posed by the LEAP
> program, but our PRIMARY DIFFICULTY relates to the astronomical escalation
> of construction costs  ( totally out of our control), and the severe
> restraints imposed by the Town to look for lower cost options.  Even our
> "100%" option provides way less than what was presented in 2018.
> Dilla Tingley
> COA Board, CCBC Committee Member
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Forest Brown 
>> *Date:* September 13, 2023 at 10:42:11 AM EDT
>> *To:* "Lynn DeLisi, M.D." 
>> *Cc:* Listserv Listserv 
>> *Subject:* *Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum*
>>
>> 
>> Dear Lynn,
>>
>> Thank you so much for thoughtfully describing your perspective. I was
>> also wondering about improving upon preexisting buildings as an
>> alternative. I am in complete agreement with what you’ve shared here. I
>> appreciate you willing to serve on behalf of other residents who feel the
>> same way.
>>
>> Becca
>>
>> On Sep 13, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Lynn DeLisi, M.D. via Lincoln <
>> lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Wednesday September 13, 2023
>>
>> Dear LT,
>>
>> I am posting my personal views, not as a member of the Town Planning
>> Board, but as one resident of this unique town. I want to thank the
>> Community Center Building Committee and the Architects for their hard work
>> for our Town over the last several months. However, after listening to the
>> Community Center Building Committee’s Forum last evening, it has become
>> very clear to me that the Town’s vision to improve facilities for the COA
>> cannot be accomplished on the school site as “selected” by residents of the
>> Town a few years ago. We hired excellent architects who have listened to
>> the committee and the public now for several months and have come up with
>> 3+ major plans, recommending the middle priced one that is at 75% the
>> original very expensive estimate given to us last year. The lowest price
>> option was shown to be inadequate for COA activities and would be only as
>> one person said “moving the COA from one deficient site to another”.
>>
>> It was also clear that remaining on the school site means we “must”,
>> according to the committee leadership, include in our community center
>> renovating or rebuilding space for the after school program called “LEAP”,
>> despite many residents giving input that this program is the school’s
>> responsibility and not that of a Community Center. In addition there are
>> safety issues related to traffic patterns, increased cars and children
>> walking or on bikes to get to and from school and activities.
>>
>> Furthermore, it was clear from the lack of discussion on the topic last
>> nig

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[llas902551--- via Lincoln]

To those interested. All available  existing town bldgs have been looked at 
MULTIPLE TIMES and need much renovation at considerable expense. Unfortunately 
because not only LEAP but P need space. So the cost has now increased. By 
using other bldgs their is rent and owner requirements.  And would not belong 
to town.
And Their are many state/ town / school requirements at the ONLY sight 
available on school grounds.I'll add that the planning of the CC was well 
thought out for many yrs . Hopefully when more of you need elder services we 
will have an appropriate  space.Thank you.Lynne LaSpina  FLCOA & HS
Sent from AOL on Android 
 
  On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 10:42 AM, Forest Brown 
wrote:   -- 
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[David Cuetos]

In my opinion, the proposals the CCBC is putting forward are flawed because
the basic premises upon which the building has been dimensioned are greatly
overstated. Multiple residents have brought this up, but the committee has
not taken the feedback into consideration.

To begin with, activity room sizes are too big for the town's real needs.
Despite residents' continued demands, the COA has refused to share actual
attendance data for its activities, only providing minimum/maximum
attendance
<https://lincolncommunitycenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/COAHS_Programming-Stats.pdf>
and
caps, which obscure the picture. As an example, the COA is asking for a
room for 50 diners
<https://lincolncommunitycenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Research-into-CC-Space-Sharing-and-SQFT-1.pdf>,
when we have never had that many seniors eat lunch on the premises at one
time, and typically the attendance is much less. Without actual average or
median numbers for all activities, how can we assess our needs?  COA also
claims that the town is required to open programming to seniors from other
towns, which is not accurate. You can look at what our neighbors in Concord
<https://concordma.gov/949/Policy-For-Out-of-Town-Seniors> do. The end
result is gargantuan rooms
<https://lincolncommunitycenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/2023-08-16-3-Schemes_Reduced.pdf>
we
do not need. Let us not make the same mistake we made when we overbuilt the
school.

The other main factor driving the size is the disproportionate amount of
space allocated to administration
<https://lincolncommunitycenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/2023-05-31-Lincoln-CCBC-Public-Presentation-after-feedback.pdf>,
approximately 5,000 gross square feet of space in my calculation. This
includes separate receptions for each department, private bathrooms and
private breakout rooms. Does COA really need eight individual different
offices plus a huge lobby?

I agree with Lynn we need a hard pause and a new committee who is more
representative of the spectrum of views prevalent among town residents. The
process so far has had a maximalist approach. The experience from peer
towns such as Harvard should cause the town to pause and reflect. Our needs
can be met at a fraction of the cheapest $12.5M option.


>
> *From:* Forest Brown 
> *Date:* September 13, 2023 at 10:42:11 AM EDT
> *To:* "Lynn DeLisi, M.D." 
> *Cc:* Listserv Listserv 
> *Subject:* *Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum*
>
> 
> Dear Lynn,
>
> Thank you so much for thoughtfully describing your perspective. I was also
> wondering about improving upon preexisting buildings as an alternative. I
> am in complete agreement with what you’ve shared here. I appreciate you
> willing to serve on behalf of other residents who feel the same way.
>
> Becca
>
> On Sep 13, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Lynn DeLisi, M.D. via Lincoln <
> lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Wednesday September 13, 2023
>
> Dear LT,
>
> I am posting my personal views, not as a member of the Town Planning
> Board, but as one resident of this unique town. I want to thank the
> Community Center Building Committee and the Architects for their hard work
> for our Town over the last several months. However, after listening to the
> Community Center Building Committee’s Forum last evening, it has become
> very clear to me that the Town’s vision to improve facilities for the COA
> cannot be accomplished on the school site as “selected” by residents of the
> Town a few years ago. We hired excellent architects who have listened to
> the committee and the public now for several months and have come up with
> 3+ major plans, recommending the middle priced one that is at 75% the
> original very expensive estimate given to us last year. The lowest price
> option was shown to be inadequate for COA activities and would be only as
> one person said “moving the COA from one deficient site to another”.
>
> It was also clear that remaining on the school site means we “must”,
> according to the committee leadership, include in our community center
> renovating or rebuilding space for the after school program called “LEAP”,
> despite many residents giving input that this program is the school’s
> responsibility and not that of a Community Center. In addition there are
> safety issues related to traffic patterns, increased cars and children
> walking or on bikes to get to and from school and activities.
>
> Furthermore, it was clear from the lack of discussion on the topic last
> night, that there was no SERIOUS consideration by the committee of other
> sites throughout Town that could be appropriate for a community center,
> particularly COA functions. While Bemis Hall and the Pierce House have been
> visited, no details about what it would take to 

Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[dilla tingley]

Lynn,
Thanks for your interest in the Community Center.  It is clear you are very
new to the program.  Please visit the CCBC website where you will find the
final reports for the
 2015 Study Committee.  Five sites in Town were studied, design options
identified and costed ( in 2015 construction cost dollars):
Bemis Hall, Pierce House, Hartwell, Lincoln Station and DPW site.
2016 Campus Master Planning Committee - Evaluated the impact of siting the
CC on the school campus.
2018 CCPPDC with actual designs for buildings at the Hartwell site.
The charge of the current committee doesn't include revisiting these other
sites.
Please read the reports.
We have been challenged by very real needs on that site posed by the LEAP
program, but our PRIMARY DIFFICULTY relates to the astronomical escalation
of construction costs  ( totally out of our control), and the severe
restraints imposed by the Town to look for lower cost options.  Even our
"100%" option provides way less than what was presented in 2018.
Dilla Tingley
COA Board, CCBC Committee Member


On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 10:29 AM Lynn DeLisi, M.D. via Lincoln <
lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote:

> Wednesday September 13, 2023
>
> Dear LT,
>
> I am posting my personal views, not as a member of the Town Planning
> Board, but as one resident of this unique town. I want to thank the
> Community Center Building Committee and the Architects for their hard work
> for our Town over the last several months. However, after listening to the
> Community Center Building Committee’s Forum last evening, it has become
> very clear to me that the Town’s vision to improve facilities for the COA
> cannot be accomplished on the school site as “selected” by residents of the
> Town a few years ago. We hired excellent architects who have listened to
> the committee and the public now for several months and have come up with
> 3+ major plans, recommending the middle priced one that is at 75% the
> original very expensive estimate given to us last year. The lowest price
> option was shown to be inadequate for COA activities and would be only as
> one person said “moving the COA from one deficient site to another”.
>
> It was also clear that remaining on the school site means we “must”,
> according to the committee leadership, include in our community center
> renovating or rebuilding space for the after school program called “LEAP”,
> despite many residents giving input that this program is the school’s
> responsibility and not that of a Community Center. In addition there are
> safety issues related to traffic patterns, increased cars and children
> walking or on bikes to get to and from school and activities.
>
> Furthermore, it was clear from the lack of discussion on the topic last
> night, that there was no SERIOUS consideration by the committee of other
> sites throughout Town that could be appropriate for a community center,
> particularly COA functions. While Bemis Hall and the Pierce House have been
> visited, no details about what it would take to renovate them have been
> presented, nor has anyone taken the time to investigate whether the Town
> could use other buildings or space, historic or otherwise, along Lincoln Rd
> or nearby and renovate any of them for a community center that at least
> houses the COA. Mainly, the committee remains on the school campus because
> it is the best place for Parks and Rec to be and many people want to mix
> generations in a “Community Center for All”.
>
> I would like to propose that a new Town Committee be formed of concerned
> residents, who would still like to see the Town have a safe and up-to-date
> improved space for a COA, to conduct activities, but do not want taxes
> raised any further, and be a committee that SERIOUSLY examines existing
> sites that could be renovated, even if it means the cost of purchasing them
> for the Town. I would be happy to serve on such a committee. In the mean
> time until this committee does its work, we should put the Building
> Committee and architects on hold and not have a special Town Meeting to
> vote on the School site options in December. When Town’s residents selected
> the school site as the “best” for a community center, they did not know
> what we know now.
>
> Lynn DeLisi
>
> 125 South Great Rd
>
> --
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/
> .
> Change your subscription settings at
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
>
>
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Re: [LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Forest Brown]

Dear Lynn,

Thank you so much for thoughtfully describing your perspective. I was also 
wondering about improving upon preexisting buildings as an alternative. I am in 
complete agreement with what you’ve shared here. I appreciate you willing to 
serve on behalf of other residents who feel the same way.

Becca

> On Sep 13, 2023, at 10:29 AM, Lynn DeLisi, M.D. via Lincoln 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Wednesday September 13, 2023
> 
> Dear LT,
> 
> I am posting my personal views, not as a member of the Town Planning Board, 
> but as one resident of this unique town. I want to thank the Community Center 
> Building Committee and the Architects for their hard work for our Town over 
> the last several months. However, after listening to the Community Center 
> Building Committee’s Forum last evening, it has become very clear to me that 
> the Town’s vision to improve facilities for the COA cannot be accomplished on 
> the school site as “selected” by residents of the Town a few years ago. We 
> hired excellent architects who have listened to the committee and the public 
> now for several months and have come up with 3+ major plans, recommending the 
> middle priced one that is at 75% the original very expensive estimate given 
> to us last year. The lowest price option was shown to be inadequate for COA 
> activities and would be only as one person said “moving the COA from one 
> deficient site to another”.
> 
> It was also clear that remaining on the school site means we “must”, 
> according to the committee leadership, include in our community center 
> renovating or rebuilding space for the after school program called “LEAP”, 
> despite many residents giving input that this program is the school’s 
> responsibility and not that of a Community Center. In addition there are 
> safety issues related to traffic patterns, increased cars and children 
> walking or on bikes to get to and from school and activities.
> 
> Furthermore, it was clear from the lack of discussion on the topic last 
> night, that there was no SERIOUS consideration by the committee of other 
> sites throughout Town that could be appropriate for a community center, 
> particularly COA functions. While Bemis Hall and the Pierce House have been 
> visited, no details about what it would take to renovate them have been 
> presented, nor has anyone taken the time to investigate whether the Town 
> could use other buildings or space, historic or otherwise, along Lincoln Rd 
> or nearby and renovate any of them for a community center that at least 
> houses the COA. Mainly, the committee remains on the school campus because it 
> is the best place for Parks and Rec to be and many people want to mix 
> generations in a “Community Center for All”.
> 
> I would like to propose that a new Town Committee be formed of concerned 
> residents, who would still like to see the Town have a safe and up-to-date 
> improved space for a COA, to conduct activities, but do not want taxes raised 
> any further, and be a committee that SERIOUSLY examines existing sites that 
> could be renovated, even if it means the cost of purchasing them for the 
> Town. I would be happy to serve on such a committee. In the mean time until 
> this committee does its work, we should put the Building Committee and 
> architects on hold and not have a special Town Meeting to vote on the School 
> site options in December. When Town’s residents selected the school site as 
> the “best” for a community center, they did not know what we know now.
> 
> Lynn DeLisi
> 
> 125 South Great Rd
> 
> 
> -- 
> The LincolnTalk mailing list.
> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
> Change your subscription settings at 
> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
> 
-- 
The LincolnTalk mailing list.
To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
Change your subscription settings at 
https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.

[LincolnTalk] Last Night's Community Center Forum

[Lynn DeLisi, M.D. via Lincoln]

Wednesday September 13, 2023

Dear LT,

I am posting my personal views, not as a member of the TownPlanning Board, but 
as one resident of this unique town. I want to thank the CommunityCenter 
Building Committee and the Architects for their hard work for our Townover the 
last several months. However, after listening to the Community CenterBuilding 
Committee’s Forum last evening, it has become very clear to me thatthe Town’s 
vision to improve facilities for the COA cannot be accomplished onthe school 
site as “selected” by residents of the Town a few years ago. Wehired excellent 
architects who have listened to the committee and the publicnow for several 
months and have come up with 3+ major plans, recommending themiddle priced one 
that is at 75% the original very expensive estimate given to uslast year. The 
lowest price option was shown to be inadequate for COAactivities and would be 
only as one person said “moving the COA from onedeficient site to another”.

It was also clear that remaining on the school site means we“must”, according 
to the committee leadership, include in our community centerrenovating or 
rebuilding space for the after school program called “LEAP”,despite many 
residents giving input that this program is the school’sresponsibility and not 
that of a Community Center. In addition there are safetyissues related to 
traffic patterns, increased cars and children walking or onbikes to get to and 
from school and activities.

Furthermore, it was clear from the lack of discussion on thetopic last night, 
that there was no SERIOUS consideration by the committee ofother sites 
throughout Town that could be appropriate for a community center,particularly 
COA functions. While Bemis Hall and the Pierce House have beenvisited, no 
details about what it would take to renovate them have beenpresented, nor has 
anyone taken the time to investigate whether the Town coulduse other buildings 
or space, historic or otherwise, along Lincoln Rd or nearby and renovate anyof 
them for a community center that at least houses the COA. Mainly, thecommittee 
remains on the school campus because it is the best place for Parksand Rec to 
be and many people want to mix generations in a “Community Centerfor All”.

I would like to propose that a new Town Committee be formedof concerned 
residents, who would still like to see the Town have a safe andup-to-date 
improved space for a COA, to conduct activities, but do not wanttaxes raised 
any further, and be a committee that SERIOUSLY examines existingsites that 
could be renovated, even if it means the cost of purchasing them forthe Town. I 
would be happy to serve on such a committee. In the mean time untilthis 
committee does its work, we should put the Building Committee andarchitects on 
hold and not have a special Town Meeting to vote on the Schoolsite options in 
December. When Town’s residents selected the school site as the“best” for a 
community center, they did not know what we know now.

Lynn DeLisi

125 South Great Rd

-- 
The LincolnTalk mailing list.
To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.
Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/.
Change your subscription settings at 
https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.