Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on System z
Nice to see a face to David Boyes, having seen him post numerous times. K -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Smrcina Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 3:33 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Demo of OpenSolaris running on System z This is an interview with David Boyes of Sine Nomine Associates on You Tube. It's five parts, and you even see a z/VM system in part 4! How often does that happen on You Tube? David is clearly not having any fun... :) Part 1: http://youtube.com/watch?v=cH71qP-yDDI Part 2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=wfv48Gp6odwfeature=user Part 3: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ma0XPN2z6Qcfeature=user Part 4: http://youtube.com/watch?v=mb3lMHLXbdM Part 5: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q3ONtai6uIU -- Rich Smrcina VM Assist, Inc. Phone: 414-491-6001 Ans Service: 360-715-2467 rich.smrcina at vmassist.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org WAVV 2008 - Chattanooga - April 18-22, 2008 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on System z
Met him once, a few years back, when we were doing Linux-on-z the first time. Nice guy, very smart. Wore wrist braces because of carpal tunnel problems. Hope he's doing better with that. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:29 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [LINUX-390] Demo of OpenSolaris running on System z On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 06:36 -0500, Evans, Kevin R wrote: Nice to see a face to David Boyes, having seen him post numerous times. Look here for more monitor abuse: http://linuxvm.org/community/index.html -- David Andrews A. Duda and Sons, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This message w/attachments (message) may be privileged, confidential or proprietary, and if you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, do not use or share it and delete it. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Merrill Lynch. Subject to applicable law, Merrill Lynch may monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.ml.com/e-communications_terms/. By messaging with Merrill Lynch you consent to the foregoing. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on System z
On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 06:36 -0500, Evans, Kevin R wrote: Nice to see a face to David Boyes, having seen him post numerous times. Look here for more monitor abuse: http://linuxvm.org/community/index.html -- David Andrews A. Duda and Sons, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
How to map the zlinux Kernel / determine where particular Kernel modules are loaded in memory
zLinux is running under VM. I would like to use the VM facilities to put some address stops inside the kernel so that I can examine the data available (I am an old assembler programmer, and this appears to be the easiest way for me - in the short run). I see how to use GCC and AS to generate an assembler listing so that I can pick where I want to stop and can find the data items. The only issue remaining is to determine where the module was loaded. Any ideas? -- Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: How to map the zlinux Kernel / determine where particular Kernel modules are loaded in memory
i would suggest that you download TRACK for the version of VM you are using and then use it's capability to display other v.m.'s storage to locate the modules you are interested in. Binyamin Dissen wrote: zLinux is running under VM. I would like to use the VM facilities to put some address stops inside the kernel so that I can examine the data available (I am an old assembler programmer, and this appears to be the easiest way for me - in the short run). I see how to use GCC and AS to generate an assembler listing so that I can pick where I want to stop and can find the data items. The only issue remaining is to determine where the module was loaded. Any ideas? -- Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- DJ V/Soft z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training, consulting, and software development www.vsoft-software.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: How to map the zlinux Kernel / determine where particular Kernel modules are loaded in memory
On Nov 29, 2007 4:42 PM, Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: zLinux is running under VM. Good! As it was meant to ;-) The only issue remaining is to determine where the module was loaded. cat /proc/modules You may also find pleasure in doing things like make kernel/sched.lst for example to get the assembler listing with generated instructions. Rob -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on System z
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 6:36 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Evans, Kevin R [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice to see a face to David Boyes, having seen him post numerous times. I agree, it's always nice to be able to put a face with a name. Which is why http://linuxvm.org/community/ is there. :) Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on System z
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 9:38 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Hall, Ken (GTI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wore wrist braces because of carpal tunnel problems. Hope he's doing better with that. I haven't seen any on him lately, so I suspect he is. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Enable oci8 in PHP RPM on SLES 9
Mark, many thanks for your suggestions. I succeded in creating the oci8.so module (had to use oci8 1.2.2, though, since any later version requires php 4.3.10 or later, while SLES 9 provides only up to 4.3.4). Now the only software not included in RPM upgrades will be the oci8.somodule (which I could easily build into an RPM with rpmbuild, but would never get upgraded anyway... right?). Stefano -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on System z
On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 09:38 -0500, Hall, Ken (GTI) wrote: Nice guy, very smart. How about that! Who would have guessed that the cinnamon roll guy also knows a thing or two about computers? A real renaissance man. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: How to map the zlinux Kernel / determine where particular Kernel modules are loaded in memory
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 10:59 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rob van der Heij [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -snip- cat /proc/modules Hmm. I was going to say look at /boot/System.map, but now I'm not so sure. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Enable oci8 in PHP RPM on SLES 9
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 11:08 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Stefano Mastroianni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, many thanks for your suggestions. I succeded in creating the oci8.so module (had to use oci8 1.2.2, though, since any later version requires php 4.3.10 or later, while SLES 9 provides only up to 4.3.4). Now the only software not included in RPM upgrades will be the oci8.somodule (which I could easily build into an RPM with rpmbuild, but would never get upgraded anyway... right?). Stefano, Perhaps, but you should do it anyway. If you don't, it won't be part of your software inventory, so it could get partially overlaid by something else, deleted by someone else, corrupted in some way, etc., and you would never know. There have been a good number of times rpm-V has shown me problems that I wouldn't have known about otherwise. Just Do It. It's not that hard. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on System z
That gave me a real shock: due to the order in which my browser loaded the images the first thing I saw was Marcy Cortes' picture . . . labeled Oliver Benke. Jon snip Look here for more monitor abuse: http://linuxvm.org/community/index.html /snip -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
I had a look at the scoundrels gallery and apart from the wonderfull people in Boeblingen the only one I could identify as certifyably European is Rob vd Heij. Are we that behind the times in Europe (or anywhere else in the world besides the US for that matter)??? No wonder it is hard to get anything done with Linux on zSeries outside of the US. Best regards, Pieter Harder [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel +31-73-6837133 / +31-6-47272537 Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/29/07 6:35 On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 6:36 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Evans, Kevin R [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice to see a face to David Boyes, having seen him post numerous times. I agree, it's always nice to be able to put a face with a name. Which is why http://linuxvm.org/community/ is there. :) Brabant Water N.V. Postbus 1068 5200 BC 's-Hertogenbosch http://www.brabantwater.nl Handelsregister: 16005077 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Maybe it's because zSeries and Linux in one sentence, is a contradiction of purpose. I have just read the History of Ubuntu and Linux is the answer to Open Source and no constant Upgrade fees but putting zSeries in the same sentence, nullifies the whole justification to play with another Operating System. Anton Britz On Nov 29, 2007 1:14 PM, Pieter Harder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had a look at the scoundrels gallery and apart from the wonderfull people in Boeblingen the only one I could identify as certifyably European is Rob vd Heij. Are we that behind the times in Europe (or anywhere else in the world besides the US for that matter)??? No wonder it is hard to get anything done with Linux on zSeries outside of the US. Best regards, Pieter Harder [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel +31-73-6837133 / +31-6-47272537 Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/29/07 6:35 On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 6:36 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Evans, Kevin R [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice to see a face to David Boyes, having seen him post numerous times. I agree, it's always nice to be able to put a face with a name. Which is why http://linuxvm.org/community/ is there. :) Brabant Water N.V. Postbus 1068 5200 BC 's-Hertogenbosch http://www.brabantwater.nl Handelsregister: 16005077 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on System z
David is clearly not having any fun... :) Indeed. What these videos *didn't* show was the complete laptop failure 30 minutes before the presentation was supposed to start, and the resulting panicking by various and sundry people (including me) while wiring up a replacement. I also was *not* expecting to be taped, so I was really making a lot of arguments up as I went along. I'm pretty stunned that I actually look and sound even remotely lucid. 8-) In any case, it's all up to the development team on this one. I just have the crazy ideas -- Neale, Adam, and a few others have to deliver on them. All the credit goes there, not to me. I'm just the pretty face. 8-) -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
I must be totally brain-dead today. That makes no sense whatsoever. If I run zSeries, it's a contradiction to run Linux? I must not be parsing your sentence correctly. On Nov 29, 2007 3:32 PM, Anton Britz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe it's because zSeries and Linux in one sentence, is a contradiction of purpose. I have just read the History of Ubuntu and Linux is the answer to Open Source and no constant Upgrade fees but putting zSeries in the same sentence, nullifies the whole justification to play with another Operating System. Anton Britz -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Nov 29, 2007 4:18 PM, Anton Britz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, you can call your self brain dead if you have not been part of the IBM world for the last 30 years but IBM makes money out of adding a few buttons to the same boxes/software every year and then they sell it back to their own customers. Well I have been a part of the IBM world for 20+ years, and no I don't consider myself brain-dead. I just thought you had a real argument I was missing. So now you want to run Linux on an IBM box ? Yes, I do. The reason why the market is moving to Linux is precisely because of the constant Upgrade fees of IBM/Microsoft. Maybe 1 of the reasons. There are many others. Better OS than Microsoft, more secure than Microsoft. Does a better job, for certain workloads. You want to tell me we are going to get new/better features in Linux, compared to other Operating Systems that have been around for 50 years. You just may, it is being developed by thousands, of individuals. So Yes, I agree with you... Brain dead is one way of putting it in perspective. Mainframes must have arrived. -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Mark Pace wrote: The reason why the market is moving to Linux is precisely because of the constant Upgrade fees of IBM/Microsoft. Maybe 1 of the reasons. There are many others. Better OS than Microsoft, more secure than Microsoft. Does a better job, for certain workloads. Don't forget the Windows doesn't actually run very well on Zeds. I'd say doesn't run, but someone here will stick his hand up and say, I've done it. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 3:32 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Anton Britz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe it's because zSeries and Linux in one sentence, is a contradiction of purpose. You couldn't be more wrong. Are you sure you're not Ed Gould posting under a different name? He was equally unable to see the value of running Linux on the mainframe. I guess saving millions of dollars per year isn't good enough for some people. I have just read the History of Ubuntu and Linux is the answer to Open Source Linux is the answer to Open Source? Uh, Linux _is_ open source. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Yes, you can call your self brain dead if you have not been part of the IBM world for the last 30 years but IBM makes money out of adding a few buttons to the same boxes/software every year and then they sell it back to their own customers. So now you want to run Linux on an IBM box ? The reason why the market is moving to Linux is precisely because of the constant Upgrade fees of IBM/Microsoft. You want to tell me we are going to get new/better features in Linux, compared to other Operating Systems that have been around for 50 years. So Yes, I agree with you... Brain dead is one way of putting it in perspective. Anton Britz On Nov 29, 2007 2:12 PM, Mark Pace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I must be totally brain-dead today. That makes no sense whatsoever. If I run zSeries, it's a contradiction to run Linux? I must not be parsing your sentence correctly. On Nov 29, 2007 3:32 PM, Anton Britz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe it's because zSeries and Linux in one sentence, is a contradiction of purpose. I have just read the History of Ubuntu and Linux is the answer to Open Source and no constant Upgrade fees but putting zSeries in the same sentence, nullifies the whole justification to play with another Operating System. Anton Britz -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 4:26 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mark Pace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -snip- I just thought you had a real argument I was missing. Not likely, knowing you, and considering the source of your confusion. Mark Pot -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Nov 29, 2007, at 3:34 PM, John Summerfield wrote: Don't forget the Windows doesn't actually run very well on Zeds. I'd say doesn't run, but someone here will stick his hand up and say, I've done it. Fine, fine, I've done it. Well, it wasn't a Z. It was a P390 or maybe an IS. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: How to map the zlinux Kernel / determine where particular Kernel modules are loaded in memory
Hi, Benyamin. Take a look at your System.map file, located in the /boot directory. It will show you the locations of all of the modules and entry points inside the kernel. Here, on my SLES9 2.6.5-7.201-s390x, system, looking in the System.map-2.6.5-7.201-s390x file I find that nfs_mark_uptodate is located at: 0021500c t nfs_mark_uptodate Does this answer your question? Binyamin Dissen wrote: On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:59:20 +0100 Rob van der Heij [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :On Nov 29, 2007 4:42 PM, Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : zLinux is running under VM. :Good! As it was meant to ;-) : The only issue remaining is to determine where the module was loaded. :cat /proc/modules :You may also find pleasure in doing things like : make kernel/sched.lst :for example to get the assembler listing with generated instructions. Mode details, please. Say I wish to trap at - nfs_mark_uptodate - which is in fs/nfs/write.c How do I locate that symbol in memory? -- Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel -- DJ V/Soft z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training, consulting, and software development www.vsoft-software.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: How to map the zlinux Kernel / determine where particular Kernel modules are loaded in memory
I guess in this case 'cat /proc/kallsyms' might be your friend. Best regards, Stefan SW Linux on zSeries Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Deutschland Entwicklung GmbH Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Martin Jetter Geschäftsführung: Herbert Kircher Sitz der Gesellschaft: Böblingen Registergericht: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 243294 -- When all other means of communication fail, try words. Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU wrote on 29.11.2007 22:44:29: On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:59:20 +0100 Rob van der Heij [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :On Nov 29, 2007 4:42 PM, Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : zLinux is running under VM. :Good! As it was meant to ;-) : The only issue remaining is to determine where the module was loaded. :cat /proc/modules :You may also find pleasure in doing things like : make kernel/sched.lst :for example to get the assembler listing with generated instructions. Mode details, please. Say I wish to trap at - nfs_mark_uptodate - which is in fs/nfs/write.c How do I locate that symbol in memory? -- Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
I don't to run one LINUX on a z/series, I want to run 1000 z/LINUX on one z/series. And I want 200 of them in 6RU. With 3TB of disk. And a pony. *grin* Now go do some math .. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Adam Thornton wrote: On Nov 29, 2007, at 3:34 PM, John Summerfield wrote: Don't forget the Windows doesn't actually run very well on Zeds. I'd say doesn't run, but someone here will stick his hand up and say, I've done it. Fine, fine, I've done it. Eggzactly. Last time I blamed you for some bizarre conduct it was someone else, so I thought I'd hold my water this time. Well, it wasn't a Z. It was a P390 or maybe an IS. Near enough. I'm sure we'll all agree. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Huegel, Thomas wrote: I don't to run one LINUX on a z/series, I want to run 1000 z/LINUX on one z/series. which raises a question I've been pondering for some time... What's a reasonable upper limit on the number of Linux guests on a well-proportioned Z these days? Has anyone pushed up the unreasonable upper limit recently? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: How to map the zlinux Kernel / determine where particular Kernel modules are loaded in memory
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 4:53 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Stefan Bader [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess in this case 'cat /proc/kallsyms' might be your friend. Hmm. On my SLES10 SP1 system, I don't see nfs_mark_uptodate in there. I guess a couple of things can complicate things quite a bit: - Is the feature configured at all - Is the feature configured as a kernel module, and not compiled in Are all symbols exported, or just some of them? Does some sort of debug option have to be turned on in the .config file before compiling the kernel? I know there are a number of -debuginfo kernel and symbol RPMs out there. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 3:14 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Pieter Harder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had a look at the scoundrels gallery and apart from the wonderfull people in Boeblingen the only one I could identify as certifyably European is Rob vd Heij. Are we that behind the times in Europe (or anywhere else in the world besides the US for that matter)??? No wonder it is hard to get anything done with Linux on zSeries outside of the US. I think that's an overly harsh assessment. It may just be that most of the people involved with this mailing list are from the US because we're not as busy doing real work as many Europeans. :) Or we're just naturally more vocal/whiny about things. I don't know. It's certainly not from a lack of talent outside of the US, that's for sure. But, I have to say, I always wondered if Rob was certifiable or not. Now I know. Thanks! =:O Mark Post p.s. Apologies to Rob, who knows far more about a lot of things with mainframe Linux than I do. (Don't want to alienate someone who's helped me out a lot!) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Boyes Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 3:45 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz snip In any case, once we finish Solaris, I'd say VMS (or TOPS-20) is next on my list. Something with a real security model and a decent batch/tape/transactional system. snip Oh, Oh! TOPS-20! I used it in college and loved it. How would you go about getting permission to do the port? And where would you get the source? I wouldn't mind running in on my Intel under VMWare just for fun (no profit). -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
I don't to run one LINUX on a z/series, I want to run 1000 z/LINUX on one z/series. Now go do some math .. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark Pace Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 3:27 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz On Nov 29, 2007 4:18 PM, Anton Britz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, you can call your self brain dead if you have not been part of the IBM world for the last 30 years but IBM makes money out of adding a few buttons to the same boxes/software every year and then they sell it back to their own customers. Well I have been a part of the IBM world for 20+ years, and no I don't consider myself brain-dead. I just thought you had a real argument I was missing. So now you want to run Linux on an IBM box ? Yes, I do. The reason why the market is moving to Linux is precisely because of the constant Upgrade fees of IBM/Microsoft. Maybe 1 of the reasons. There are many others. Better OS than Microsoft, more secure than Microsoft. Does a better job, for certain workloads. You want to tell me we are going to get new/better features in Linux, compared to other Operating Systems that have been around for 50 years. You just may, it is being developed by thousands, of individuals. So Yes, I agree with you... Brain dead is one way of putting it in perspective. Mainframes must have arrived. -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 4:18 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Anton Britz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, you can call your self brain dead if you have not been part of the IBM world for the last 30 years but IBM makes money out of adding a few buttons to the same boxes/software every year and then they sell it back to their own customers. Yeah, forget about those processor speed increases, more capable channels, faster OSA interfaces, more capacity for real storage. Those have nothing to do with it. Oh, and if you've only got 30 years of experience working with mainframes, you're still a pup. Some of the people on this list have more than that. So now you want to run Linux on an IBM box ? You bet. Greatest thing to happen to mainframes since MVS and VM. (I don't want to hear from all the VSE/TPF people out there, either. I don't have any direct experience with them.) The reason why the market is moving to Linux is precisely because of the constant Upgrade fees of IBM/Microsoft. Umm, no. That's hardly the reason at all. Initial acquisition costs are not the issue. Do some more homework on that, and you'll see that's the least of the reasons. You want to tell me we are going to get new/better features in Linux, compared to other Operating Systems that have been around for 50 years. Yep, you bet. It's happening every day. z/VM has had a lot of improvements made to it since 2000, just because of Linux. Plus, it saves IBM (and other ISVs) a lot of money porting UNIX and LInux applications to z/OS. They can just recompile them for mainframe Linux and they're done. Everybody wins,including the z/OS systems programmers who get to keep their job because now the mainframe is even more important to the business than it was before. One thing you really need to keep in mind is that the operating system is _not_ important to the business. It's the applications that run on it. If you can deploy better applications faster by running an IBM operating system on the same hardware with Linux, you can demonstrate significant value to the business. It's happening every day. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Don't forget the Windows doesn't actually run very well on Zeds. I'd say doesn't run, but someone here will stick his hand up and say, I've done it. Actually, starting with Windows Server 2k3 (where you could actually do something useful with Windows without the GUI), the architecture of Windows has evolved enough that a viable port would be possible -- assuming that the source code could be made available. The later versions of Windows Server have a much better concept of hardware abstraction than NT did, and as much as we like to bash them, there are good things in there. In any case, once we finish Solaris, I'd say VMS (or TOPS-20) is next on my list. Something with a real security model and a decent batch/tape/transactional system. Still, if Microsoft were to offer me a reasonable sum of money to do it, I'd seriously think about it. Why shouldn't it run under z/VM? ... after all, all the other cool operating systems are doing it...8-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Anton Britz wrote: Maybe it's because zSeries and Linux in one sentence, is a contradiction of purpose. I have just read the History of Ubuntu and Linux is the answer to Open Source and no constant Upgrade fees but putting zSeries in the same sentence, nullifies the whole justification to play with another Operating System. Anton Britz Anton If you want Open Source and no Constant Upgrade Fees on zSeries, play Debian. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: How to map the zlinux Kernel / determine where particular Kernel modules are loaded in memory
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:59:20 +0100 Rob van der Heij [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :On Nov 29, 2007 4:42 PM, Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : zLinux is running under VM. :Good! As it was meant to ;-) : The only issue remaining is to determine where the module was loaded. :cat /proc/modules :You may also find pleasure in doing things like : make kernel/sched.lst :for example to get the assembler listing with generated instructions. Mode details, please. Say I wish to trap at - nfs_mark_uptodate - which is in fs/nfs/write.c How do I locate that symbol in memory? -- Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Nov 29, 2007, at 3:45 PM, David Boyes wrote: In any case, once we finish Solaris, I'd say VMS (or TOPS-20) is next on my list. Something with a real security model and a decent batch/tape/transactional system. Dude, just do Multics. The source is available now, and you have 28 spare bits to play with. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 5:00 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Summerfield -snip- which raises a question I've been pondering for some time... What's a reasonable upper limit on the number of Linux guests on a well-proportioned Z these days? That's seriously into it depends territory. If you're running SAP, WebSphere, or a number of other really piggish workloads, the number could be very low. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 4:45 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Boyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -snip- Still, if Microsoft were to offer me a reasonable sum of money to do it, I'd seriously think about it. Why shouldn't it run under z/VM? ... after all, all the other cool operating systems are doing it...8-) Because Certain Things are Just Evil. If you took the money, your soul would be in jeopardy. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Seriously, what about UBUNTU ? The conceptual idea and effort of Canonical makes sense to me but I was told, these different flavors of Linux lack device drivers ex. I have a work colleague that is struggling with Broadband Wireless Device drivers. Anton Britz -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
which raises a question I've been pondering for some time... What's a reasonable upper limit on the number of Linux guests on a well-proportioned Z these days? It's not about size of the machine, it's what you do with it. 8-) For anything other than trivial workload, hundreds to thousands. It still depends a lot on what you want to do with them. Small, spiky workloads will allow the thousands number. Websphere or Oracle: dozens. Has anyone pushed up the unreasonable upper limit recently? The number of scheduler queue entries hasn't changed in any release of z/VM that I'm aware of, so I doubt the TP:Omega number is in any real hazard as the milestone for insanity. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Seriously, what about UBUNTU ? Ubuntu is a Debian variant. Debian already exists on System z (and we did a very nice job on it, too). Free from debian.org, or $150 to get CD/DVDs from SNA. Most of the stuff in Ubuntu that is not stock Debian doesn't apply to Z hardware -- no bitmap display. The conceptual idea and effort of Canonical makes sense to me but I was told, these different flavors of Linux lack device drivers ex. I have a work colleague that is struggling with Broadband Wireless Device drivers. On what? I doubt it's on Z. Also, the mainstream desktop Linux vendors have done preintegrated loads for HP and IBM laptops which include device drivers for the built-in devices -- for modern laptops. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: How to map the zlinux Kernel / determine where particular Kernel modules are loaded in memory
Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU wrote on 29.11.2007 23:03:35: On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 4:53 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Stefan Bader [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess in this case 'cat /proc/kallsyms' might be your friend. Hmm. On my SLES10 SP1 system, I don't see nfs_mark_uptodate in there. I guess a couple of things can complicate things quite a bit: - Is the feature configured at all - Is the feature configured as a kernel module, and not compiled in Yes, this only works on exported symbols, and the module has to be loaded at the moment. If this isn't an exported symbol, then probably a debugging kernel is required. Stefan -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
I believe that the Prov. of Quebec reports that they are now running 650+ Linux guests in support of Oracle workloads on a z9-EC system, with the intent of going to 900+ Linux images sometime in the near future. This is product type workloads as well, not simply development images. David Kreuter can give more details if anyone is interested, I suspect. Mark Post wrote: On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 5:00 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Summerfield -snip- which raises a question I've been pondering for some time... What's a reasonable upper limit on the number of Linux guests on a well-proportioned Z these days? That's seriously into it depends territory. If you're running SAP, WebSphere, or a number of other really piggish workloads, the number could be very low. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- DJ V/Soft z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training, consulting, and software development www.vsoft-software.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Oh, Oh! TOPS-20! I used it in college and loved it. How would you go about getting permission to do the port? And where would you get the source? I wouldn't mind running in on my Intel under VMWare just for fun (no profit). http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/ There is a KL emulator and a complete install RP06 pack, with IP and DECnet networking, etc. If you want, you can even get proper blinkenlight kits for desktop PCs, so you even get real 36-bit accumulator patterns in the proper DEC colors. Includes REAL Emacs, and most of the DEC languages (Bliss, C, COBOL, Fortran, etc) that survived. I have it running on my handheld -- full-on OPCOM and Galaxy batch in a shirt pocket. Now that's personal automation. 8-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Nov 29, 2007 11:08 PM, Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, I have to say, I always wondered if Rob was certifiable or not. Now I know. Thanks! =:O That is like in certified insane ? One of the problems for Europeans is that we come late to any discussion on the list. At 9am there's already a thread of 45 msgs and there's little to add... But less problem for me, because I misunderstood the working day of 8 hrs + 9 hrs time difference in my contract ;-) Rob -- Rob van der Heij Velocity Software, Inc http://velocitysoftware.com/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Thursday, 11/29/2007 at 05:37 EST, Rob van der Heij [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the problems for Europeans is that we come late to any discussion on the list. At 9am there's already a thread of 45 msgs and there's little to add... But less problem for me, because I misunderstood the working day of 8 hrs + 9 hrs time difference in my contract ;-) Yeah. Those words time difference are extra and don't belong, do they? No wonder you're confused! Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Nov 29, 2007, at 4:17 PM, Anton Britz wrote: Seriously, what about UBUNTU ? You really don't want to run desktop-focussed distributions on zSeries. You've got no graphics hardware--it's just a framebuffer, and the CPU--which is slow compared to the IO system--has to do all the lifting. Debian, on the other hand, works very well indeed, if you configure it as a headless server. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
David Boyes wrote: Seriously, what about UBUNTU ? Also, the mainstream desktop Linux vendors have done preintegrated loads for HP and IBM laptops which include device drivers for the built-in devices -- for modern laptops. I have a Thinkpad R40. Everything works with OpenSUSE 10.2. Including the modem. The wireless is Atheros-based, I had to download an extra driver that has a binary blob. Same on my cheap Acer (I'm not sure about the modem). Ideally, one exercises some discretion pre-purchase:-) But this isn't Zed. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 4:34 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Summerfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -snip- Don't forget the Windows doesn't actually run very well on Zeds. I'd say doesn't run, but someone here will stick his hand up and say, I've done it. That would be Adam, but technically speaking, it wasn't on a z/Architecture machine, just a lowly MP3000. And yeah, it was a dog. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Thursday, 11/29/2007 at 03:53 EST, Anton Britz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe it's because zSeries and Linux in one sentence, is a contradiction of purpose. I have just read the History of Ubuntu and Linux is the answer to Open Source and no constant Upgrade fees but putting zSeries in the same sentence, nullifies the whole justification to play with another Operating System. Non sequitor, Anton. The reason Linux came into being has nothing to do with the platform on which you run it. Why do you think the two are related? Selection of a Linux distro is economics (e.g. Support it myself or buy it?). Selection of platform is economics (e.g. What does it cost me to add another Linux instance in my company?). Both are economic, but with different factors. There are people living on this list who are saving their companies millions of dollars a year in IT spending with Linux on the mainframe. You may experience disbelief and some dizziness while getting used to this, but that's ok. Almost everyone who hasn't grown up with mainframes goes through this process. Have a seat, sit back, watch, learn, and grow. By the way, some people get confused because they think people buy ONE mainframe to run ONE copy of Linux and nothing else. This is both false and a dumb idea. They either run 20, 30 or 100s of copies of Linux on the mainframe to justify the expense, or they are already using the mainframe for something else (e.g. banking, insurance, health care, manufacturing, inventory, investment management, ...) and have added only a few Linux to the mix for their own [cost-jusitified] reasons. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 4:51 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 29, 2007, at 3:45 PM, David Boyes wrote: In any case, once we finish Solaris, I'd say VMS (or TOPS-20) is next on my list. Something with a real security model and a decent batch/tape/transactional system. Dude, just do Multics. The source is available now, and you have 28 spare bits to play with. Yeah, I was going to mention that. The fact that it's written in PL/I is certainly an odd choice, but I guess no stranger than writing an OS in C. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Thanks for the explanation but my background is IBM and maybe I am still trying to get use to the need to change everything to a Hierarchal file structure and many Linux's, below VM. VM, the operating system we all tossed out of the Big Computer Center window in the 70's.. Based on the Google Story and The History of Linux, they are not competing with SRM/WLM or HSM or RACF etc. but with the escalating Infrastructure cost of The Big Computer center. Maybe this was because of the introduction of Escalating Software prices every time you upgrade the Hardware but the Magician behind the curtain, was always IBM. Now you are asking us again, to trust IBM... move your Linux Servers onto our boxes and we will take care of you. In the mean time, we have to gradually interlace Linux with zOS, duplicate Scheduling software, Accounting packages etc. because IBM and zOS has failed us. Anton Britz -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Nov 29, 2007, at 5:41 PM, Anton Britz wrote: In the mean time, we have to gradually interlace Linux with zOS, duplicate Scheduling software, Accounting packages etc. because IBM and zOS has failed us. Well, if you dislike IBM that much, you certainly could go run your Linux workload on x86_64 boxes; plenty of people have done just that. I don't understand what you hope to gain on the Linux/390 list. Linux on zSeries is not the answer to all computing problems. Indeed, it's the answer to a relatively small class of problems, and that class tends to be very heavily-weighted towards high-density consolidation. It is very rare to find a justifiable case for Linux on zSeries without the z/VM hypervisor (and, correspondingly, quite a few Linux virtual machines). If you're running a single Linux image, your zSeries machine is a very, very expensive way to do that. I am of course biased. As David said in the interviews that have been floating around on YouTube, we're not doing the OpenSolaris port to run on the metal, we're doing it to run under z/VM. This is largely based on watching the Linux-on-s390-and-z experience, in which an awful lot of development effort has been spent to ensure that it will run on the metal, and the return on that effort is pretty minimal, as there's little justification for running Linux in an LPAR rather than on z/VM. We chose the easy and obvious solution for OpenSolaris: it requires z/VM, period. If your objection is but I threw away VM and now I have to buy it again, well, a) it's rather cheap compared to the cost of a lot of stuff for z/OS, and b) I will try but fail to repress my schadenfreude as I say, Maybe you shouldn't've thrown it away in the first place, then. It's hard to tell what your objection is, though. Escalating cost of the data center? I assure you, Google has to deal with this. One of the lessons to be learned from z/VM is that after a while it costs a lot more to power and cool and manage and babysit a bazillion discrete servers than it does a few zSeries boxes. That's sort of the point of this whole consolidation exercise. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Building kernel modules on Linux 390
I have SLES10 installed in a guest under z/VM. When issuing uname -r, I get 2.6.16.21-0.8-default So I downloaded the 2.6.16.21 kernel source. I built a module using that build tree, but when I run insmod to install it, I get the following: insmod: error inserting 'hwmod.ko': -1 Invalid module format When I look at /var/log/messages, I see the following: kernel: hwmod: disagrees about version of symbol struct_module How can I determine what versions I need to get this to work? Thanks in advance. Wayne Driscoll Product Developer JME Software LLC NOTE: All opinions are strictly my own. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Interesting that Google was in the news earlier this week investing in renewable energy in part to deal with the mounting energy costs related to their datacenters. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/technology/28google.html?_r=1oref=slogin SAN FRANCISCO, Nov. 27 - Google, the Internet company with a seemingly limitless source of revenue, plans to get into the business of finding limitless sources of energy. The company, based in Mountain View, Calif., announced Tuesday that it intended to develop and help stimulate the creation of renewable energy technologies that are cheaper than coal-generated power. Google said it would spend hundreds of millions of dollars, part of that to hire engineers and energy experts to investigate alternative energies like solar, geothermal and wind power. The effort is aimed at reducing Google's own mounting energy costs to run its vast data centers, while also fighting climate change and helping to reduce the world's dependence on fossil fuels. Jon Nolting EPG Compete - CATM Enterprise Technology Architect (425) 707-9334 (O) (925) 381-2375 (M) (425) 222-7969 (H) -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Thornton Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 4:12 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz On Nov 29, 2007, at 5:41 PM, Anton Britz wrote: In the mean time, we have to gradually interlace Linux with zOS, duplicate Scheduling software, Accounting packages etc. because IBM and zOS has failed us. Well, if you dislike IBM that much, you certainly could go run your Linux workload on x86_64 boxes; plenty of people have done just that. I don't understand what you hope to gain on the Linux/390 list. Linux on zSeries is not the answer to all computing problems. Indeed, it's the answer to a relatively small class of problems, and that class tends to be very heavily-weighted towards high-density consolidation. It is very rare to find a justifiable case for Linux on zSeries without the z/VM hypervisor (and, correspondingly, quite a few Linux virtual machines). If you're running a single Linux image, your zSeries machine is a very, very expensive way to do that. I am of course biased. As David said in the interviews that have been floating around on YouTube, we're not doing the OpenSolaris port to run on the metal, we're doing it to run under z/VM. This is largely based on watching the Linux-on-s390-and-z experience, in which an awful lot of development effort has been spent to ensure that it will run on the metal, and the return on that effort is pretty minimal, as there's little justification for running Linux in an LPAR rather than on z/VM. We chose the easy and obvious solution for OpenSolaris: it requires z/VM, period. If your objection is but I threw away VM and now I have to buy it again, well, a) it's rather cheap compared to the cost of a lot of stuff for z/OS, and b) I will try but fail to repress my schadenfreude as I say, Maybe you shouldn't've thrown it away in the first place, then. It's hard to tell what your objection is, though. Escalating cost of the data center? I assure you, Google has to deal with this. One of the lessons to be learned from z/VM is that after a while it costs a lot more to power and cool and manage and babysit a bazillion discrete servers than it does a few zSeries boxes. That's sort of the point of this whole consolidation exercise. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Building kernel modules on Linux 390
Where do I get the source that comes with the distribution? I installed the kernel-source package, but it doesn't appear to have everything I need. Wayne Driscoll Product Developer JME Software LLC NOTE: All opinions are strictly my own. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Post Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:30 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Building kernel modules on Linux 390 On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 6:52 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Wayne Driscoll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have SLES10 installed in a guest under z/VM. When issuing uname -r, I get 2.6.16.21-0.8-default So I downloaded the 2.6.16.21 kernel source. Um, from where? kernel.org? You should use the kernel source that comes with your distribution. I built a module using that build tree, but when I run insmod to install it, I get the following: insmod: error inserting 'hwmod.ko': -1 Invalid module format When I look at /var/log/messages, I see the following: kernel: hwmod: disagrees about version of symbol struct_module How can I determine what versions I need to get this to work? I think that's a result of you not using the kernel-source RPM from Novell. I'm not _sure_ of that, but that would be good first step to see if the problem goes away. I would recommend, however, using the latest kernel and kernel source available, 2.6.16.53-0.18. 2.6.16.21-0.8 is from back in 2006. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Building kernel modules on Linux 390
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 6:52 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Wayne Driscoll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have SLES10 installed in a guest under z/VM. When issuing uname -r, I get 2.6.16.21-0.8-default So I downloaded the 2.6.16.21 kernel source. Um, from where? kernel.org? You should use the kernel source that comes with your distribution. I built a module using that build tree, but when I run insmod to install it, I get the following: insmod: error inserting 'hwmod.ko': -1 Invalid module format When I look at /var/log/messages, I see the following: kernel: hwmod: disagrees about version of symbol struct_module How can I determine what versions I need to get this to work? I think that's a result of you not using the kernel-source RPM from Novell. I'm not _sure_ of that, but that would be good first step to see if the problem goes away. I would recommend, however, using the latest kernel and kernel source available, 2.6.16.53-0.18. 2.6.16.21-0.8 is from back in 2006. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Thursday, 11/29/2007 at 06:42 EST, Anton Britz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the explanation but my background is IBM and maybe I am still trying to get use to the need to change everything to a Hierarchal file structure and many Linux's, below VM. You sound as though you think IBM (or someone else) is trying to get you to convert z/OS to Linux. No dice. IBM would simply like you to consider consolidating your distributed servers onto a mainframe using Linux and z/VM. Or instead of growing the server farm physically, grow it virtually! VM, the operating system we all tossed out of the Big Computer Center window in the 70's.. and the 80s, and the 90s. Based on the Google Story and The History of Linux, they are not competing with SRM/WLM or HSM or RACF etc. but with the escalating Infrastructure cost of The Big Computer center. Exactly right. Maybe this was because of the introduction of Escalating Software prices every time you upgrade the Hardware but the Magician behind the curtain, was always IBM. Several years ago VM pricing was changed to be a one-time charge per CPU without regard to the size of the CPU. The same is true for Linux middleware marketed by IBM. (And see the references to IFLs, a cheaper CPU type.) You can upgrade the h/w and you don't incur any additional software cost unless you add CPUs. The cost of z/OS, however, remains tied to the capacity of the machine. Now you are asking us again, to trust IBM... move your Linux Servers onto our boxes and we will take care of you. I will admit that there were some IBM salespeople with egg on their faces because they whispered get rid of VM in the few years before Linux appeared. In the mean time, we have to gradually interlace Linux with zOS, duplicate Scheduling software, Accounting packages etc. because IBM and zOS has failed us. You're ignoring the fact that you already using scheduling and accounting packages on your distributed systems. THEY aren't [necessarily] tied to z/OS and there's no reason to do so just because Linux is on z. Until the management software stack becomes more ... hypervisor aware, you do on zLinux the same things you do on x86 Linux. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Building kernel modules on Linux 390
On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 11:45 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Wayne Driscoll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where do I get the source that comes with the distribution? I installed the kernel-source package, but it doesn't appear to have everything I need. That should have been good enough (assuming you already have glibc-devel and the other parts of the toolchain installed). What errors are you getting? Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: DeveloperWorks not available?
... If unavailable, anyone have a suggestion as to where I might obtain a tape driver for the 2.6 kernel? Can the tape_3590-2.6.13-s390x-october2005.tar be used on the 2.6 kernel? Betsie: Binary versions of the IBM tape drivers are available at ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/storage/devdrvr/Linux/ The source for the lin_tape driver is available at https://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/iwm/web/pick.do?source=lstdd Jim -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Yeah, I was going to mention that. The fact that it's written in PL/I is certainly an odd choice, but I guess no stranger than writing an OS in C. As a retired Multician, there's nothing at all odd about Multics being in PL/1. PL/1 is perfectly natural, and has a lot of really nice things in it for writing really, REALLY safe, stable code. You can get away with all kinds of crap in C that PL/1 won't tolerate -- and that way leads to Windows. 8-) Talking about unnatural, though, that Honeywell 601 hardware... that's another story. 8-) -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
