Re: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
2006/6/5, Oded Arbel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, 2006-06-04 at 20:28 +0300, Beni Cherniavsky wrote: Side note (only helps you if you want to bypass official package management): Many Python libraries, including python-elementtree, are pure-python libraries and should work unchanged with any python version that they support [1]_. [...] Some Python libraries (like python-celementtree, note the c) do wrap C code and must be linked to the correct libpython, so you really have to get the right package or build from source. I think we are confusing different different distributions - fedora has a single package for both items. You are right. I didn't check, just assumed that if debian split them, so did other people. [...] The main problem with most of the above suggestions, is you appear to be recommending that I forgo the use of automatic installation and dependency tracking and start to administer my system manually in the spirit of the old configure;make;make install days. Problem is - due to external time constraints I'm trying to phase away from managing my computer and into using my computer ;-) ;-) I didn't mean to actually recommend that (I said only if you want to...). Just felt like writing something about how Python libraries work in case it would interest someone. As for your problems - I never mastered RPM/redhat enough to recommend solutions (beyond what was already proposed in this thread). For me the switch from managing to using my computer occured when I installed debian (because I don't reinstall once a year and because it packages just about everything). -- Beni Cherniavsky [EMAIL PROTECTED], who can only read email on weekends. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
On Sun, 2006-06-04 at 20:28 +0300, Beni Cherniavsky wrote: 2006/5/30, Oded Arbel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Problem: what I want to install eventually requires me to upgrade python from the CentOS version (2.3) to the Fedora Core 4 version (2.4), and due to this it needs to upgrade a python component called python-elementtree, as it requires a specific python ABI version. Side note (only helps you if you want to bypass official package management): Many Python libraries, including python-elementtree, are pure-python libraries and should work unchanged with any python version that they support [1]_. python-elementtree contains a compiled library (so) which is built against a specific python ABI. Granted - it might work with a more recent version, but as the RPM requirements are only 2.x unlike the normal 2.x or higher, I'd tend to think that they know what they're talking about it. I'm loath to fiddle with it, as yum depends on many packages to work, python-elementtree being one of the more important and non-optional ones (see: redhat sucks). The only thing that you may call an ABI are the byte-compiled .pyc files. No, see above. you might want to do something like rpm -ql python-elementtree | grep so if you don't believe me. I fully appreciate the fact that they are using compiled binaries for XML parsing - I use the python native XML parsing and its slow as molasses. Some Python libraries (like python-celementtree, note the c) do wrap C code and must be linked to the correct libpython, so you really have to get the right package or build from source. I think we are confusing different different distributions - fedora has a single package for both items. If you don't care about the byte-code files, you can just put pure-python libs in /usr/lib/site-python/, where all python versions will find it. The main problem with most of the above suggestions, is you appear to be recommending that I forgo the use of automatic installation and dependency tracking and start to administer my system manually in the spirit of the old configure;make;make install days. Problem is - due to external time constraints I'm trying to phase away from managing my computer and into using my computer ;-) Seriously - I believe that the purpose of automatic software management system is to make your work easier, not make it harder and/or force you to disable parts of it. Currently I've given up and installed Fedora Core 5 on the development system, basically postponing the frustrating redhat-induced software-management-deficiency-syndrome stage to a later stage, although not alleviating it. -- Oded ::.. Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature. -- Kulawiec = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
On Wed, 2006-05-31 at 15:10 +0300, Oded Arbel wrote: On Wed, 2006-05-31 at 12:23 +0300, Gilboa Davara wrote: I can see plenty of reasons to change RHEL to Fedora - only one of them is the fact that RHEL uses outdated software. Here's the main problem. Repeat after me: Fedora is not RedHat. (silently ignoring this as everyone knows RHEL is based on Fedora ;-) I'm not saying that it's impossible. I am saying that RHEL and FC has no reason to support it, given the huge array of problems it may raise. Too many packages get replace between releases; Too many packages are only present in one distribution, or worse, are not supported -by design- in one of the distribution. E.g. Lets say you upgrade an FC5 machine to RHEL5; what is RHEL5 supposed to do with the Beagle/Mono tool chain? You can always download the SRPM, unpack it, change it name and obsolete lines and rebuild it. This -should- solve the problem. Except it doesn't - that was the first route I tried: welcome back dependency hell. To build what I want, I need newer versions of OpenSSL among other things, and you can't have OpenSSL 0.9.7g and 0.9.7a installed at the same time - unlike any other distro (I feel like I'm repeating myself). I doubt that -any- packaging system, be that RPM, Apt or even emerge support multiple package versions. (RPM actually does support bitarch packages... but that's something completely different). How about building the required tool chain in /usr/local and/or opt? Gilboa = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
2006/5/30, Oded Arbel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Problem: what I want to install eventually requires me to upgrade python from the CentOS version (2.3) to the Fedora Core 4 version (2.4), and due to this it needs to upgrade a python component called python-elementtree, as it requires a specific python ABI version. Side note (only helps you if you want to bypass official package management): Many Python libraries, including python-elementtree, are pure-python libraries and should work unchanged with any python version that they support [1]_. Copying /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/elementtree to /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/ should work. The only thing that you may call an ABI are the byte-compiled .pyc files. python2.4 will ignore byte-code files from 2.3 and will work a bit slower. Running as root python2.4 -c 'import elementtree' should [2]_ byte-compile all files in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/elementtree/. Some Python libraries (like python-celementtree, note the c) do wrap C code and must be linked to the correct libpython, so you really have to get the right package or build from source. If you don't care about the byte-code files, you can just put pure-python libs in /usr/lib/site-python/, where all python versions will find it. . [1] Python is evolving, so every package is maintained against Python X or later, where X tends nowdays to be 2.2 or even 2.3. or later is correct for any actively maintained library -- unmaintained code usualy breaks after several major versions of Python (after a transition period with warnings). . [2] Unless the package does lazy / conditional imports. To be sure you want to import every module in the package. And if you really care, repeat the with -O to produce the .pyo files used when python is run with -O (never?). What you really want to do in case of doubt is to get the source and run python2.4 ./setup.py build (and perhaps sudo python2.4 ./setup.py install). This also builds and links C extensions if any -- it's very easy to use. Of course, I've used 2.3/2.4 and elementtree as examples; what I said applies to most Python libraries. -- Beni Cherniavsky [EMAIL PROTECTED], who can only read email on weekends. Fedora refugee = happy Debian user (hint hint :-) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
On Wed, 2006-05-31 at 00:34 +0300, Oded Arbel wrote: On Tue, 2006-05-30 at 20:59 +0300, Gilboa Davara wrote: I doubt that you'll be able to pull a clean upgrade between RHEL and FC using yum... it may even fail to upgrade between different consecutive Fedora versions. (Hence it's unsupported...) That's really sad - I've been using Mandriva for a while, and one of Mandriva's strengths (and they don't mind touting it), is that you can upgrade any Mandriva version (and a lot of other RPM based distros) to any other - when 10 came out they demonstrated a clean upgrade from Mandrake 5 (the first Mandrake version that was publicly available) to 10, and also some RedHat to Mandriva upgrades. I would not have expected RedHat to be less capable in that arena. Two things. 1. You are essentially trying to upgrade between different types of Linux. (RHEL and Fedora). I doubt that anyone every anticipated anyone dumping RHEL and switching to Fedora. Funny. upgrading between different brands of the same company works in every other Linux I've used - SLE-NLD-SuSE, Ubuntu-Kubuntu, Mandriva-NMS-Corporate I can see plenty of reasons to change RHEL to Fedora - only one of them is the fact that RHEL uses outdated software. Here's the main problem. Repeat after me: Fedora is not RedHat. Fedora is not RedHat. .. Fedora is not RedHat. 2. Fedora -does- support upgrade using the Anaconda installer. You download the ISO/images/ftp/http/nfs images (whatever install method you prefer) and let the installer do the upgrade for you. Ummm... Fully updated, FC4 is pretty from from RHEL4. Both GCC wide and kernel wise. (2.6.9 vs. 2.6.14/15) If you need to maintain version compatibility, I'd try FC3 first. That's the gist of it - I don't want to do a full upgrade. I want to update select packages, but keep the basic system. Problem is - RedHat (unlike other OS vendors) don't like that, so - for example - you can't install two different major versions of the same library (like readline 4 and readline 5) unless there's compat package (and even then its a problem, because yum prefers to update 40 packages depending on the old version instead of simply installing the compat version). You can always download the SRPM, unpack it, change it name and obsolete lines and rebuild it. This -should- solve the problem. -- Oded Gilboa = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
On Wed, 2006-05-31 at 12:23 +0300, Gilboa Davara wrote: I can see plenty of reasons to change RHEL to Fedora - only one of them is the fact that RHEL uses outdated software. Here's the main problem. Repeat after me: Fedora is not RedHat. (silently ignoring this as everyone knows RHEL is based on Fedora ;-) You can always download the SRPM, unpack it, change it name and obsolete lines and rebuild it. This -should- solve the problem. Except it doesn't - that was the first route I tried: welcome back dependency hell. To build what I want, I need newer versions of OpenSSL among other things, and you can't have OpenSSL 0.9.7g and 0.9.7a installed at the same time - unlike any other distro (I feel like I'm repeating myself). -- Oded ::.. The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple. -- Oscar Wilde = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
How about: yum install debian?:POn 5/31/06, Oded Arbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2006-05-31 at 12:23 +0300, Gilboa Davara wrote: I can see plenty of reasons to change RHEL to Fedora - only one of them is the fact that RHEL uses outdated software. Here's the main problem. Repeat after me: Fedora is not RedHat.(silently ignoring this as everyone knows RHEL is based on Fedora ;-) You can always download the SRPM, unpack it, change it name and obsolete lines and rebuild it. This -should- solve the problem.Except it doesn't - that was the first route I tried: welcome back dependency hell. To build what I want, I need newer versions of OpenSSLamong other things, and you can't have OpenSSL 0.9.7g and 0.9.7ainstalled at the same time - unlike any other distro (I feel like I'mrepeating myself). --Oded::..The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple.-- Oscar Wilde=To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] withthe word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the commandecho unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]-- || Alex Alexander :: +30 693 8778114| Linux :: Debian :: 2.6.16 :: KDE 3.5.2\
Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
Hi list. I'm trying to work with CentOS 4.3 (RHEL 4.3 based distro) but some of the stuff it uses is too old for my needs, so I thought I'd upgrade some of the stuff to Fedora Core 4 (which IIRC is the closest Fedora Core release that is newer then RHEL 4.3 - and it includes what I need). Problem: what I want to install eventually requires me to upgrade python from the CentOS version (2.3) to the Fedora Core 4 version (2.4), and due to this it needs to upgrade a python component called python-elementtree, as it requires a specific python ABI version. But the version Fedora Core 4 carries (compiled against 2.4) has the exact same version and package release number as the CentOS version (compiled against 2.3), and so yum refuses to download and install it which causes it to complain about missing dependencies and to abort the install. Is there any way to tell yum to download the newer version even though it has the exact same version information? From perusing the documentation I couldn't find anything about it. -- Oded ::.. What is important is food, money and opportunities for scoring off one's enemies. Give a man these three things and you won't hear much squawking out of him. -- Brian O'Nolan, The Best of Myles = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
AFAIK no, by yum logic it would mean that the repository is incorrect and will not accept the update. Did you try yum localinstall? (download the rpm first and then try) Cheers, Ohad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Oded Arbel Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 1:24 PM To: IGLU Mailing list Subject: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!) Hi list. I'm trying to work with CentOS 4.3 (RHEL 4.3 based distro) but some of the stuff it uses is too old for my needs, so I thought I'd upgrade some of the stuff to Fedora Core 4 (which IIRC is the closest Fedora Core release that is newer then RHEL 4.3 - and it includes what I need). Problem: what I want to install eventually requires me to upgrade python from the CentOS version (2.3) to the Fedora Core 4 version (2.4), and due to this it needs to upgrade a python component called python-elementtree, as it requires a specific python ABI version. But the version Fedora Core 4 carries (compiled against 2.4) has the exact same version and package release number as the CentOS version (compiled against 2.3), and so yum refuses to download and install it which causes it to complain about missing dependencies and to abort the install. Is there any way to tell yum to download the newer version even though it has the exact same version information? From perusing the documentation I couldn't find anything about it. -- Oded ::.. What is important is food, money and opportunities for scoring off one's enemies. Give a man these three things and you won't hear much squawking out of him. -- Brian O'Nolan, The Best of Myles = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
On Tue, 2006-05-30 at 14:23 +0300, Oded Arbel wrote: Hi list. I'm trying to work with CentOS 4.3 (RHEL 4.3 based distro) but some of the stuff it uses is too old for my needs, so I thought I'd upgrade some of the stuff to Fedora Core 4 (which IIRC is the closest Fedora Core release that is newer then RHEL 4.3 - and it includes what I need). Problem: what I want to install eventually requires me to upgrade python from the CentOS version (2.3) to the Fedora Core 4 version (2.4), and due to this it needs to upgrade a python component called python-elementtree, as it requires a specific python ABI version. But the version Fedora Core 4 carries (compiled against 2.4) has the exact same version and package release number as the CentOS version (compiled against 2.3), and so yum refuses to download and install it which causes it to complain about missing dependencies and to abort the install. Is there any way to tell yum to download the newer version even though it has the exact same version information? From perusing the documentation I couldn't find anything about it. -- Oded ::.. I doubt that you'll be able to pull a clean upgrade between RHEL and FC using yum... it may even fail to upgrade between different consecutive Fedora versions. (Hence it's unsupported...) I'd back what I need (home, /etc) and do a fresh installation. Oh, you might consider using FC5. At least IMO, FC5 is better. Gilboa = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
On Tue, 2006-05-30 at 13:46 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AFAIK no, by yum logic it would mean that the repository is incorrect and will not accept the update. I don't think fedora would agree to correct their FC4 repository for me :-( Did you try yum localinstall? (download the rpm first and then try) Yes, as thus: # yum localinstall python-elementtree-1.2.6-4.i386.rpm Setting up Local Package Process Examining python-elementtree-1.2.6-4.i386.rpm: python-elementtree - 1.2.6-4.i386 python-elementtree-1.2.6-4.i386.rpm: does not update installed package. Nothing to do It doesn't want to have anything to do with this package. I had another idea - taking the source rpm, modifying it to release 4.1, rebuilding it and doing a local install. That would work, only I'd need a fedora core 4 system to do the build. Problem: I only have fedora core 5, which when used as a build system causes the resulting binary package to be dependent on glibc 2.4, and I don't have a fedora core 4 system (nor the time and hardware to install it) .. :-( -- Oded ::.. Expedience is the best teacher. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
On Tue, 2006-05-30 at 17:50 +0300, Oded Arbel wrote: On Tue, 2006-05-30 at 16:13 +0300, Gilboa Davara wrote: Problem: what I want to install eventually requires me to upgrade python from the CentOS version (2.3) to the Fedora Core 4 version (2.4), and due to this it needs to upgrade a python component called python-elementtree, as it requires a specific python ABI version. But the version Fedora Core 4 carries (compiled against 2.4) has the exact same version and package release number as the CentOS version (compiled against 2.3), and so yum refuses to download and install it which causes it to complain about missing dependencies and to abort the install. I doubt that you'll be able to pull a clean upgrade between RHEL and FC using yum... it may even fail to upgrade between different consecutive Fedora versions. (Hence it's unsupported...) That's really sad - I've been using Mandriva for a while, and one of Mandriva's strengths (and they don't mind touting it), is that you can upgrade any Mandriva version (and a lot of other RPM based distros) to any other - when 10 came out they demonstrated a clean upgrade from Mandrake 5 (the first Mandrake version that was publicly available) to 10, and also some RedHat to Mandriva upgrades. I would not have expected RedHat to be less capable in that arena. Two things. 1. You are essentially trying to upgrade between different types of Linux. (RHEL and Fedora). I doubt that anyone every anticipated anyone dumping RHEL and switching to Fedora. 2. Fedora -does- support upgrade using the Anaconda installer. You download the ISO/images/ftp/http/nfs images (whatever install method you prefer) and let the installer do the upgrade for you. FYI, I've got a number of machines that were slowly upgraded, from RH9 to FC5 (RH9-FC1-FC2-FC3-FC4-FC5) without too much trouble. A friend of mine did a RH9 to FC4 upgrade a couple of months ago and it worked just fine. I'd back what I need (home, /etc) and do a fresh installation. Oh, you might consider using FC5. At least IMO, FC5 is better. Currently this is not really an option - its a development system for software that targets RHEL 4 - I rather not use something which is too far away from that target or I'd pay for it dearly in integration time later. That's why the system was originally installed as CentOS 4.3, and why reinstalling is not an option. Ummm... Fully updated, FC4 is pretty from from RHEL4. Both GCC wide and kernel wise. (2.6.9 vs. 2.6.14/15) If you need to maintain version compatibility, I'd try FC3 first. Gilboa = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
On Tue, 2006-05-30 at 20:59 +0300, Gilboa Davara wrote: I doubt that you'll be able to pull a clean upgrade between RHEL and FC using yum... it may even fail to upgrade between different consecutive Fedora versions. (Hence it's unsupported...) That's really sad - I've been using Mandriva for a while, and one of Mandriva's strengths (and they don't mind touting it), is that you can upgrade any Mandriva version (and a lot of other RPM based distros) to any other - when 10 came out they demonstrated a clean upgrade from Mandrake 5 (the first Mandrake version that was publicly available) to 10, and also some RedHat to Mandriva upgrades. I would not have expected RedHat to be less capable in that arena. Two things. 1. You are essentially trying to upgrade between different types of Linux. (RHEL and Fedora). I doubt that anyone every anticipated anyone dumping RHEL and switching to Fedora. Funny. upgrading between different brands of the same company works in every other Linux I've used - SLE-NLD-SuSE, Ubuntu-Kubuntu, Mandriva-NMS-Corporate I can see plenty of reasons to change RHEL to Fedora - only one of them is the fact that RHEL uses outdated software. 2. Fedora -does- support upgrade using the Anaconda installer. You download the ISO/images/ftp/http/nfs images (whatever install method you prefer) and let the installer do the upgrade for you. Ummm... Fully updated, FC4 is pretty from from RHEL4. Both GCC wide and kernel wise. (2.6.9 vs. 2.6.14/15) If you need to maintain version compatibility, I'd try FC3 first. That's the gist of it - I don't want to do a full upgrade. I want to update select packages, but keep the basic system. Problem is - RedHat (unlike other OS vendors) don't like that, so - for example - you can't install two different major versions of the same library (like readline 4 and readline 5) unless there's compat package (and even then its a problem, because yum prefers to update 40 packages depending on the old version instead of simply installing the compat version). -- Oded ::.. Syntactic sugar leads to cancer of the semicolon. -- Alan Perlis = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
On Wednesday 31 May 2006 00:34, Oded Arbel wrote: Funny. upgrading between different brands of the same company works in every other Linux I've used - SLE-NLD-SuSE, Ubuntu-Kubuntu, Mandriva-NMS-Corporate Stop thinking of Fedora as RedHat. I can see plenty of reasons to change RHEL to Fedora - only one of them is the fact that RHEL uses outdated software. s/outdated/stable/g That's the gist of it - I don't want to do a full upgrade. I want to update select packages, but keep the basic system. Problem is - RedHat (unlike other OS vendors) don't like that, so - for example - you can't install two different major versions of the same library (like readline 4 and readline 5) unless there's compat package (and even then its a problem, because yum prefers to update 40 packages depending on the old version instead of simply installing the compat version). Redhat package management system is unfortunately not on par with other package systems from other Linux vendors (see: apt). --Ariel -- Ariel Biener e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP: http://www.tau.ac.il/~ariel/pgp.html = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Yum problem (or: do RedHat suck ? why, yes they do!)
Oded Arbel wrote: That's the gist of it - I don't want to do a full upgrade. I want to update select packages, but keep the basic system. I wouldn't recommend you doing that, since the Fedora packages don't have a policy of maintaining package dependencies for such cross-distro scenario. If an application which you did update depends on a newer version of a library which you didn't update explicitly, don't expect Yum to update that library automatically. It's not like Fedora have anything against proper version dependencies: it's simply that they don't necessarily bother for the cross-distro scenario. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
