Fwd: heads up: worm on the loose

[dep]

fyi. whatcha think of this?

--  Forwarded Message  --

Subject: heads up: worm on the loose
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:44:11 +
From: david evlis reign [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

hi,
this is my first post and i am sorry that i had to be the bearer of
 bad news.
while doing my monthly audit today on my company's external boxes
 (gateways, external mail forwarders/...) i came across some *strang*
 files, which after inspection turned out to be source code to a new
 internet worm... the headers are as follows:

/*** Skelleton for an INET-worm. Plug-in the exploitcode and the
*** scan-routine and it works!
*** You propably have to change the sleep-seconds from 10 to a higher
 value. *** Worms must be linked statically in this case.
*** For educational purposes only! Don't use it in a bad manner.
***/

in fact the exploitcode was a ssh exploit by someone going by the
 name of zip and inspecting the source of this skelleton worm it
 seems it is cross platform, harbouring shellcode for *bsd, linux and
 solaris. i was totally dismayed and i saved a copy of this and
 another file, then i reformatted...i was not going to let my mail
 server be used to launch attacks on sites.
the other file in which i found was not a worm but a autorooter for
 ssh, as ssh-1.2.26 was running on a mail server out of my audit
 space, the attackers had obviously abused a trusted relationship.
the headers are as follows:

a kernerl module:
//
// (ssmod.c) by _dave
//
// Kernel module that bypasses the password check on the x2
// sshd crc32 exploit.
//
// gcc -c -O3 ssmod.c -I/usr/src/linux/include
// /sbin/insmod ssmod.o
//

a scanning module:
/*
** pscan.c - Originally by Volatile
** modified by _dave
**
*/

another file, i am not sure what this does
/* oops.c, part of the autossh package... by _dave */
/* nodupe2.c  by _dave */
/* ssvuln.c */
/* by _dave */


as you can see this exploit is being exploited in the wild...i am too
 afraid to think of the possibilities if that skelleton is
 released.

i just hope i have got to the public in time...

- david evlis reign, PhD compsci, CCISP

ps: any further details will be provided to reserachers




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-- 
dep

if you go with the flow you'll get
chopped to pieces by the turbines.
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Re: Disk Activity

[dep]

begin  Michael Hipp's  quote:
| Something is continually strobing my hard disk about 1/second all
| the time I'm logged into KDE. Seems excessive.
|
| Is this normal? How could I track down which process is doing it?

first, what hardware are you running? how do you have swap configured? 
what filesystem are you using?

second, open a konsole window and run top. look to see what if 
anything is sucking resources (i have suspects based on experiences 
here, but i'll not offer 'em up just yet), as well as its appraisal 
of what's going on with memory and swap.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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an unintentional hoot

[dep]

looks as if internet tourist guy is now in salt lake city -- and the 
connection is not being made. or else one hell of a coincidence:

http://www.drudgereport.com/
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: Disk Activity

[dep]

begin  Michael Hipp's  quote:
| New mobo (P4 1.7 GHz, 256M, 845 Intel chipset w/DDR memory, 2 IDE
| hds on chan #0). Ext2 filesystem, tho I have an Elx partition
| mounted that is ReiserFS and also a vfat Win partition. Not sure
| what you're asking specifically about swap but 'free' says:
|  total   used   free sharedbuffers
| cached Mem:255532 184120  71412   1024  
| 3196  95168 -/+ buffers/cache:  85756 169776
| Swap:   321260  0 321260

hmmm. how often does reiser write to the journal?

also, what happens if you unplug the second drive?

finally, if you *watch* top, does anything change when the disk access 
takes place?
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: Disk Activity

[dep]

begin  Michael Hipp's  quote:

| Unplugging the 2nd hard drive would take some work as that's where
| swap and /home are.

um, yeah. have you had both drives in the machine in the same 
configuration -- both on the same cable -- when this disk activity 
*didn't* take place? reason i ask is that there are very ugly 
interactions between drives in this configuration sometimes, 
irrespective of what's installed on 'em. 
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: an unintentional hoot

[dep]

begin  Tom Wilson's  quote:

| LMAOI wonder if that is the work of him again or if someone
| just donwloaded one of the photos and cut him out.   That poor
| fella, little did he know he would be elevated to Internet
| celebrity status.

interestingly, it's actually not him -- the picture on drudge is real. 
and the poor fellow involved in the original wtc picture stepped 
forward. details, as well as probably the best gallery of him stuck 
in odd places, is at http://www.touristguy.com .

but the resemblance on the drudge page is incredible, isn't it?
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: new ibm ad

[dep]

begin  Michael Scottaline's  quote:

| Yeah, ibm has done a pretty fair job lately of putting linux before
| the public and using sports analogies (especially during sports
| shows).  I certainly doesn't hurt the public's perception of
| Linux to have ibm in such a supportive role (regardless of their
| motivations...) Mike

at least it's not the nuns again.g
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.


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Re: Thanks Douglas Hunley

[dep]

begin  Michael Hipp's  quote:

| I was under the assumption that it was a 75dpi vs 100dpi thing
| related entirely to which font set to choose (or how to display the
| font perhaps).

no, that's determined (well, *was* -- with anti-aliasing and so on 
now, typeface handling is known only to three people, each of whom is 
taken a blood oath to protect the secret; they never all three fly on 
the same airplane, and one is replaced only if one dies) by the order 
of directories in XF86Config.

i am interested in hearing the significance of adding the size 
geometry thing, as you are.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.


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Re: hey dep

[dep]

begin  Douglas J Hunley's  quote:
| just read your article on kde3. nice!
| how in the fsck did you kill that stupid alarm deamon? thanks

i shot it. silver bullet.g

actually, there is a setting in the configuration settings, launch 
daemon at startup or words to that effect. you need to uncheck that. 
then you need to close korganizer, and if there's any relic of it on 
kicker, right click and kill that, too. then shut down kde and *do* 
check the restore settings to next session box. then restart kde.

which is imho more than ought be necessary.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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Re: new ibm ad

[dep]

begin  Bill Campbell's  quote:

| Anybody else see yesterday's Silicon Spin show on techtv?  Dvorak
| was talking to people from IBM, HP, and an open standards guy
| about Linux in the Enterprise.  I found it pretty interesting.

yeah, i saw it. the voices of those of us screaming linux on the 
desktop are being driven into the background noise.

hey -- you see *this*?

http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO68107,00.html

IBM deals up a card-size computer

By BRIAN SULLIVAN 
(February 07, 2002) 
IBM Research has come out with a computer the size of a stack of index 
cards, according to a company statement. 
 The computer, which has an 800-MHz processor and 128MB synchronous 
dynamic RAM, is 3 in. wide by 5 in. long and three-quarters of an 
inch thick. It also comes with a 10GB hard disk drive and a 3-D 
graphics chip with 8MB of RAM. IBM said it has no plans to market the 
device and is referring to it as a radical experiment. The company 
said it built the device, known as the Meta Pad, to research and 
develop technologies that will go into and help manage future 
computing devices. IBM may license the Meta Pad technologies to 
other companies, however. 

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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Re: new ibm ad

[dep]

begin  Michael Hipp's  quote:
| These things remind why I always admired IBM (even when I despised
| them) - they're one of the few companies that will build stuff like
| this just to see if they can. RIP: private sector RD.

yeah, though it annoys me that i can't have one.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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weird opera behavior

[dep]

damndest thing. on my wife's machine, opera all of a sudden displays 
no images at all and instead merely has the boxes containing image. 
everywhere, so it's not as if advertisements are getting busted. no 
changes in system -- it just one day began doing this.

i haven't really dived into it yet. anybody have ideas where to look 
when i do?
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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Re: weird opera behavior

[dep]

begin  Joel Hammer's  quote:
| This is a feature. Muck around preferences or the like and look for
| the option that turns off downloading images.

nah, that's the problem. it's set to download images and always has 
been. only thing turned off there is animated .gifs, and that simply 
locks those images on a single frame.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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Re: Looking for a distro

[dep]

begin  David Aikema's  quote:

| All the mini-distros that I've come across seem to be simply too
| small... and the standard sized distros seem to take up a bit too
| much space or require too many resources (the system is a p233mmx
| w/ 48 megs ram).

why not do an ftp install of the bare minimum of any distribution you 
care for -- just about everybody will let you d/l and build a boot 
diskette that allows for ftp install -- and do the very minimum 
installation; again, every distro i know of allows this as well. then 
add/build what you want beyond what's installed, and uninstall 
whatever you don't want.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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Re: weird opera behavior

[dep]

begin  Nate Cole's  quote:
| On my system (mileage may vary), there are four little icons in
| the upper left corner of each browser window.  The first looks
| like a lock.  The next one displays 'Toggle Loading of Images'
| in the status bar.  Start clicking this puppy until you get the
| effect you want.

ding ding ding ding ding!
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

___
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new ibm ad

[dep]

new ibm linux ad, based on basketball:

how can anybody that good play for peanuts?
loves the game.
just now on of all places the weather channel.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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Re: OT Fwd: SuSE noshow at LWCE NY 2002

[dep]

begin  David A. Bandel's  quote:

| And my experience lately has been:
| SuSE == RH (European style) == totally borken.
| Mandrake on the other hand (8.1) has been nearly flawless.  The 8.2
| Beta is even better.

well, suse-7.3 is a pita in a lot of ways, some of them 
kernel-related, i think. 7.2, though, is as solid a non-caldera 
distribution as i've seen.

we're hitting right now, seems to me, a considerable hump. the kernel 
has been a mess for more than a year, distros have elevated 
incompatibility to an art form, and big projects are infused with 
lots of people going off and doing as they damn well please rather 
than doing the stuff that needs to be done. it's going to be a real 
test, to see if we're going to need companies to step in and do the 
grunt work. at the moment, i wonder if in a couple years we won't all 
be using not just gnome but ximian gnome.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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Re: OT Fwd: SuSE noshow at LWCE NY 2002

[dep]

begin  Burns MacDonald's  quote:
| Tyler wrote:
|  They're all there, its just that Mandrake has practically
|  eliminated the need for the CLI tools.
|
| Oh swell... like filling your car floor to ceiling with cotton
| candy, then trying to drive down the street.

which is actually not far from my characterizing suse's configuration 
tools -- filling the box so full of strofoam peanuts that there's no 
room to move.

| I'm sorry, Tyler, but I just can't bring myself to join the our
| aim is to out-windows Microsoft camp. IMHO anybody with enough
| money, time and a frontal lobotomy can produce a Windows OS clone.
| We shouldn't compromise on the values that make Linux *better* (and
| different). I don't want to sound elitist and it's true we do still
| have a ways to go in terms of useability, but if we have to make
| Linux look and act exactly like Windows, then maybe there are some
| users we just don't need to attract. /sunday evening rant

agreement again. a surprisingly delightful post came from rms on the 
gnome list -- he said that chasing msft is foolish, that chasing the 
mac would make far more sense. which it would, because linux is far 
more flexible than the mac, but the mac has a gui that eats for 
breakfast the best that msft has to offer.

| The MAC suffered because they insisted on a completely proprietary
| model in an increasingly generic market model. They were clobbered
| by the dominance of the PC clone model and all the explosive
| cross-development that brought with it.

exactly right. ibm's open architecture.

| Psion did a pretty good business in Europe, especially with their
| handhelds devices... they were years ahead of the current PDA
| market. However, they became stagnant and are starting to lose
| share in a market they should have dominated. They easily could
| have been Palm, but for old boy parochialism and an inability to
| think globally and reach beyond regional markets. You're a PDA guy
| - you should know that.

the amstrad of the 90s. sad, really. i just spent a little while with 
the sharp zaurus, and it ought to devour everything in sight. even 
has a keyboard. though the market remains open for someone to produce 
the pentium (or, better, transmeta crusoe) equivalent of the 
wonderful old poquet pc with an ibm trackpoint-style pointing device. 
i keep hoping ibm does it, and ibm keeps not doing it. i have a 
toshiba libretto (p-166, 64 megs, 10 gigs, 800x480) that *does* run 
linux well -- wrote my piece on lwe on it, on the train coming home 
-- but the combination of its limited resources and linux developers' 
lack of discipline when writing code (it could, and ought to be, a 
hell of a lot tighter, but new hardware prevents its needing to be) 
keeps it from being really practical for most uses.

| Mandrake's primary money market is Europe, where the Linux desktop
| is gaining far greater acceptance than on this side of the pond.
| Here, in North America, the Linux market is primarily in the server
| room and that is where RedHat is putting most of its development 
| resources. Ipso Facto: Engineering goes where the bucks are - where
| that is depends upon your target market.

mandrake isn't doing all that well in europe, either -- suse is doing 
much better there, because despite its many obvious shortcomings, it 
has a caldera-like desire to achieve and maintain stability. mandrake 
is in many ways little more than a broken red hat.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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Re: OT Fwd: SuSE noshow at LWCE NY 2002

[dep]

begin  burns's  quote:

| It's true. I have yet to see Mandrake running seriously in a server
| room... it's invariably RedHat, Debian, sometimes Slackware or
| (very rarely) Caldera. I understand that SuSE is common in Europe
| and 7.2 and 7.3 Pro are getting rave reviews as a server load, but
| for all intents and purposes, SuSE just doesn't exist in the North
| American corporate market. FWIW, I am running SuSE 7.2 Pro

i'm running 7.3 pro here, and i have gained nothing in the upgrade to 
justify the switch from 7.2. this one, imho, was rushed out the door. 
better to upgrade package-by-package, with 7.2 as the base. ymmv, of 
course.

| I am starting to see more and more OpenBSD which points to greater
| security awareness and an emphasis on locking down networked
| systems sadly, something that we are currently missing - there
| is no real security-oriented Linux distro.

there are a few, but they're *really* niche. and there is selinux from 
the nsa, which is the real direction of things. the obsd movement has 
more, i'm afraid, to do with its kinship to netbsd, which in turn os 
OS-X, which means the availability of msft apps . . . . .

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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continuing xscreensaver goofiness

[dep]

morning!

i've had another little screen/keyboard/mouse lock while running 
xscreensaver-4.0 with direct rendering enabled. i've encountered this 
kind of thing before, when the extrusion hack would break things. at 
least it was kind enough to leave its locked image on the screen, so 
i could readily disable it.

problem now is that the screen is blank when the thing dies (machine 
continues to operate perfectly well, and it does not seem to have 
anything to do with the daily crom run, as we had suspected, in that 
this time it happened several hours after the cron run), it leaves 
the screen blank.

so the next guess is that it's a particular module.

there are no errors in any logfiles i can find. so now i need to come 
up with a way to log the activity of xscreensaver itself, as it 
cycles through the modules. nothing i've tried works.

ideas?

i tried to email jamie directly about this, but the mail doesn't get 
accepted on the other end, probably because i'm doing the 
drippingwithirony smtp here, but incoming is hosted elsewhere.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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Re: continuing xscreensaver goofiness

[dep]

begin  Net Llama's  quote:

| Hrmmm...not that i'm doubting your experience with it but:
| 1) Xscreensaver has had quite a few revs over the past few months,
| i'd think that if there was a problem with one, it would have been
| fixed by now

not necessarily. a lot of the hacks are contribs, and i don't know how 
closely jamie goes through them.

| 2) I've always tested all of my choices before using them, and
| never was able to forcefully reproduce any problem

me, too. but that doesn't necessarily make the nut. for instance, in 
about 3.32, the extrusion hack would run, and nicely, too. for 
awhile. sometimes it would make it through its whole cycle. but 
sometimes it would do some little thing that would flat-out freeze x, 
keyboard, mouse, the whole shebang. the only reason i ever knew which 
hack it was was that it stayed on the screen when it froze. i locked 
it out, and all was well thereafter.

problem this time, here, is that this time around the screen is blank 
when whatever hack it is goes south. i'm trying to cook up some kind 
of way of logging the modules it uses. then when it freezes and i 
have to do the brb, on restart i could look at the log, identify the 
last module called, and take it off the list.

so far, none of the obvious logging methods has proved effective.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

___
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Re: New virus?

[dep]

begin  Joel Hammer's  quote:

| The text part said to run the attachment, which was a microsoft
| thingee. I immediately contacted our IS people. I haven't heard
| back, but I am starting to think that this was a legitimate email,
| sent out by our marketing department. Think about it. Despite all
| the trouble with worms, these !@$% idiots are sending out email to
| eveybody in our organization with attachments they instruct you to
| run.  Why executable attachments even can get around our email
| system is a wondwer to me.

in  which case, you ought to ask your marketing department why they 
are sending things to me as well, because i got one of these, same 
subject.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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Re: New virus?

[dep]

begin  Joel Hammer's  quote:
| Really? Can you mail it to me so I can look at it on my linux
| machine? Joel

i thought i'd nuked it, and i just looked and i had. it came in, i 
think, tuesday.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

___
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Re: xfree-4.2+ now does a weirdness

[dep]

On Thursday 31 January 2002 12:47, Douglas J Hunley wrote:

| t sure sounds like cron. perhaps the /tmp cleaning is a little too
| agressive and is deleting a pipe/socket?
| maybe xscreensaver needs relinked against xfree86's new libs?
| 4.2.0 turns dpms on for a lot of cards that 4.1.0 did not. perhaps
| that is it?

that was my guess -- but then it stopped happening. oddly, my openGL 
stuff also lost the performance gain it previously had.

the only thing i did was upgrade my zlib stuff, which was necessary 
to get kde3 to build.

so now i need to figure out what's going on here, and maybe rebuild 
xfree with the new zlib stuff. yuck.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: OT Fwd: SuSE noshow at LWCE NY 2002

[dep]

On Thursday 31 January 2002 19:34, Joshua Lee wrote:

| A correction on the SuSE mailing list: they are on the floor, near
| the IBM booth. The situation of people not knowing about Linux is
| probably going to change, IBM is airing advertisements now on TV.

problem is, i spent yesterday there and part of it was spent searching 
for suse. if they're there, they're very effectively disguised. and 
the show this year is *miniscule* compared to last year, so it's not 
all that easy to get lost. hell, i spent a short time in a nice 
conversation with esr, and even exchanged pleasantries with jeff 
hemos bates and rob malda. almost intimate. tough to hide. and no 
evidence of suse but for a listing at the ibm display, which included 
other distributions as well. and actual suse people who were there as 
part of other displays said that suse had canceled two weeks ago. so 
there is definitely conflicting information around.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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xfree-4.2+ now does a weirdness

[dep]

okay, xfree-4.2 from cvs built and instanned nicely, and performs 
nicely. but i've hit a snag here and am soliciting suggestions.

i've had it running here over two nights, and in both of them during 
the night the screen went blank -- not an apm thing; there's still 
signal to the screen -- and nothing i do short of a cold boot will 
bring back my desktop. i have no reason to think that the machine 
itself has stopped working and instead suspect that keyboard/mouse 
input are blocked. can't change to a different virtual terminal. (in 
fact, i know that the machine continues to work -- /var/log/messages 
reports cron has run its hourly run throughout, though i do not know 
the point at which the screen goes south.)

this with xscreensavers-4.0 running atop kde.

no logfiles provide anything out of the ordinary, at least in this 
connection. (i am puzzled by this, though:
Jan 29 00:14:00 depoffice /USR/SBIN/CRON[2847]: (root) CMD ( rm -f 
/var/spool/cron/lastrun/cron.daily) 
Jan 29 00:15:13 depoffice su: (to nobody) root on none
Jan 29 00:15:13 depoffice PAM-unix2[3083]: session started for user 
nobody, service su 
Jan 29 00:20:15 depoffice PAM-unix2[3083]: session finished for user 
nobody, service su 
i was not doing anything at all at that time.)

there was a time when the extrusion GL screensaver would reliably 
break things, but i have it turned off. and the other screensavers 
i've run uneventfully.

fwiw, card is a g-400 w/32 megs, machine is an athlon-1.2 with 768 
megs. i think i have the agp stuff set in the bios at 64 megs -- i've 
never understood what this is about anyway; i understand that it is 
supposed somehow to give the card access to main memory, which i'd 
just as soon not do anyway.

puzzling thing is, and it could be merely coincidence, this has 
happened only during the night. if i leave the computer alone for 
many hours during the day, it does not exhibit this misbehavior. 
which leads me to wonder if there's something in a cron job that is 
triggering the problem.

no, i don't have a telnet server set up at all, so i can't go in and 
look that way. 

ideas?
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: xfree-4.2+

[dep]

On Monday 28 January 2002 10:26, Myles Green wrote:

| Errmm... not really a piece of cake :(  I installed CVSup lastnight
| 'cuz the cvs commands listed on the xfree86 site refused to work
| here for me. CVSup worked well, brought down everything I was
| looking for - but it won't build in it's current condition. By that
| I mean the Makefile looks like Makefile,v (all filesnames
| appear to have the ',v' at the end) and I can't seem to figure out
| wtf to do to get it to build. So far I've tried make -f Makefile.
| make -f Makefile,v and autogen.sh and I've (very quickly) run
| out of ideers. Help anyone?

weird. got nothing even faintly resembling that here.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: ext2/ext3

[dep]

On Wednesday 23 January 2002 13:31, Douglas J Hunley wrote:
| dep babbled on about:
|  On Wednesday 23 January 2002 09:04, Douglas J Hunley wrote:
|  | not safe dep..
| 
|  what's unsafe about it? it's the method ted tso recommended to
|  me.
|
| deleting the journal without clearing the has_journal flag? doesn't
| sound safe at all to me.. are you sure?

yup. because you can't just up and delete the .journal file without  
chattr -i /.journal first, which i believe takes care of this.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: an interesting experience

[dep]

On Sunday 20 January 2002 21:49, David A. Bandel wrote:

| Before Windoze 98 hit the streets, I had a laptop running Linux.  I
| remember folks eyes popping wide open when I'd reach over and pop
| out the PCMCIA card while the system was running.  Then a minute
| later, pop it back in and it just worked.  The only think I had to
| do was configure a few values in the /etc/pcmcia/network.opts file.
|  My wireless card (Orinoco) works the same, but I also have a
| wireless.opts file I had to edit.

it's actually even easier now, at least in some distributions. in 
suse, for instance, i've inserted the intel pro-100, the xircom 
combination etherlink-modem card, and -- this one surprised me -- 
even the little 40-meg pcmcia iomega clik drive, and had them all 
immediately recognized. (still having a little trouble with the 
panasonix 783a pcmcia cd reader, which requires three drivers to be 
loaded -- scsi, scsi-cd, and the pcmcia scsi driver for this 
particular card -- all in the right order; in fairness, i've devoted 
little time to trying to set it up.

| I was told (don't know first-hand) that Windoze didn't (does it
| now?) allow you to just pop stuff in and out at leisure.  Had to
| stop it by hand first, then it would tell you that you could safely
| eject it.  And folks whine about having to mount and unmount a
| floppy in Linux.  Geesh.

no longer the case; in fact, hasn't been the case for a long time. 
initial installation is different, in that you can be prompted for a 
driver if the card hasn't been used before. (in linux, practically 
everything is a kernel module, so it's already installed.) but it hot 
plugs nicely now and has for awhile. (the little pcmcia floppy in my 
little libretto is supported in windows and not supported in linux in 
any meaningful way -- it can be made to work under a limited set of 
circumstances, but it does not offer hot plugging on demand.)

| Now, someone, somewhere may have a GUI way to edit those
| /etc/pcmcia/*.opt files.  I don't, it would just slow me down.  And
| the edit is a one-time thing.  Done once, forgotten forever.

but not exactly intuitive.

| So please don't tell me Windoze is easier, because it just ain't
| true.  My prime example is the registry -- now there's a nightmare.

i'd offer a different example. the libretto arrived here with w2k on 
it. i plugged the pcmcia nic into it and whammo, i was online. it 
asked me for nothing. which was pretty cool -- until less than a week 
later, when it became known that the plug-n-play network stuff in 
windows is so shot full of security holes that the fbi actually took 
the extraordinary step of issuing a release saying that it should be 
turned off. this was just the latest and one of the worst examples of 
windows offering putative ease of use at the cost of security. 
whether such a tradeoff is necessary -- can ease of use be achieved 
without compromising security? -- i do not know, and neither does 
microsoft, because it's never been a concern of theirs. nor do they 
intend for it to be, because their idea is to own your computer, its 
connections, and its contents.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: wierd response

[dep]

On Sunday 20 January 2002 22:27, Ken Moffat wrote:
| On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 08:15:52 -0500
|
| dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|  There is sobbing of the strong,
|  And a pall upon the land;
|  But the People in their weeping
|  Bare the iron hand;
|  Beware the
|  People weeping
|  When they bare the iron hand.
|
| Dep, is the credit to you on this poem?

negative. herman melville, upon the assassination of abraham lincoln. 
seems appropriate now, too, don't you think?
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: wierd response

[dep]

On Saturday 19 January 2002 22:05, David A. Bandel wrote:
| On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:03:04 +1000
|
| Keith Antoine [EMAIL PROTECTED] spewed into the bitstream:
|  I have ext2 on my $HOME partition and did a:
| 
|  kantoine@linux:~ su
|  Password:
|  linux:/home/kantoine # tune2fs -j /dev/hda10
|  tune2fs 1.24a (02-Sep-2001)
|  Creating journal inode:
|  tune2fs: Permission denied
|  while trying to create journal file
| 
|  Whats this as I was in ROOT at the time not sued...
|
| You have a slight problem with the root partition.  You can't
| change it to ext3 while it's mounted (not even read-only), and you
| can't unmount it. You'll find you can't even change the kind of
| ext3 mount it is (ordered, journaling, writeback) once the kernel
| mounts it.  Don't even try, you run the risk of damaging your
| filesystem.  Easiest way is to boot to root on another (spare)
| partition, change the old /, then reboot to the original /.

actually, that's not the case. from andrew morton on the ext3 list a 
few months ago:

dep wrote:
 
 tune2fs 1.24a (02-Sep-2001)
 Creating journal inode:
 tune2fs: Permission denied
 while trying to create journal file

You need to run 

chattr -i /.journal

Ted, could we please change that error message?  

to which theodore tso replied:

Sure... actually, I'm thinking about about fixing it so that it
automatically detects the lossage mode automatically, and after doing
tests to make *sure* that the kernel doesn't have the filesystem
mounted as ext3, to just drop the immutable flag automatically.  This
is especially since SuSE appears to have released a bogus 2.4 kernel,
so a lot of people are using it.

(In fact, because of the inherent problems with the 2.4.10 kernel, it
may be useful to have e2fsck issue a warning when checking a mounted
filesystem and uname reports a 2.4.10 kernel; the only problem with
this is that I can't necessarily distinguish between a
distribution-based kernel that has the -ac patches which fixed the
page/buffer cache problems in the 2.4.10 kernels, so I might give a
false positive.  And besides most users that are using a SuSE
kernel, aren't necessarily going to be upgrading to the newer version
of e2fsprogs, so that isn't necesssarily going to help them.)

[end of quote]

the chattr -i /.journal command has invariably fixed the problem 
here. and if, in ext2, you create the journal, you do not run the 
risk of corruption. you just, then, change /etc/fstab and reboot, if 
it's the root partition; you can umount and remount other partitions 
without a reboot.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: Linux Mag OT

[dep]

On Sunday 20 January 2002 19:24, Rick Sivernell wrote:

| I was at the book store this afternoon, minding my own
| bussiness. I picked up a Linux Mag, right in the middle of the mag
| was a M$ web host ad. free XP and free that for isp's. That really
| does take go nads.

great! if microsoft is willing to spend money so that publications 
and sites that advocate linux can stay in business, that's just 
dandy. of course, microsoft ads would be more effective for microsoft 
in just about any other publication, including ms. and the dairy goat 
journal. but that's microsoft's concern, not ours.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: ext2/ext3

[dep]

On Friday 18 January 2002 05:32, Kurt Wall wrote:

|  Can I change them using fstab settings?
|
| No.

well, um, yes and no. going back to ext2 requires editing /etc/fstab, 
does it not? and on some systems (i'm thinking suse 7.3 here), in 
addition to getting the repaired mk_inittab script from suse, one 
needs to set up fstab such that / is ext3, but additional partitions 
may be set to auto. (in suse, for reasons not yet translated from 
the german, setting / to auto boots it as ext2, while on subsequent 
partitions if the setting is ext3, they're usually not mounted at 
all, though you can do it by hand after the machine is booted. and if 
that makes it seem that suse 7.3 is a fundamentally good distribution 
cloaked in a cloud of configurational fog -- well, i have no argument 
to the contrary.)

|  Is there a step for this?
|
| No.

this is close: http://www.zip.com.au/~akpm/linux/ext3/ext3-usage.html
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: ingenuity sought

[dep]

thanks, everybody, for the multitude of good ideas and scripts. you 
will be amused to know that it was pointed out to me in no uncertain 
terms that i must go through and cull out the not-great pictures 
anyway, so i'd have to view them individually anyway, so i did a 
save-as and did all of them manually. and i shall not shoot a wedding 
digitally ever again.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: ingenuity sought

[dep]

On Sunday 13 January 2002 13:53, Bill Campbell wrote:

| I could generalize to never shoot a wedding again -- I did far too
| much of that when I was in college as it was one of my primary
| sources of income. Digital has to be easier to handle than the 4x5
| sheet film from a Linhoff Super Teknica (and press 40 flash bulbs
| were a pain :-).

you got that straight. i've shot 'em over the years both 2 1/4 and 35 
-- but i didn't print 'em myself. 

i'm about a hair away from saying the hell with all of it, getting 
myself an 8x10 field view, and spending the rest of my days making 
tack-sharp, perfectly scaled contact prints, and enjoying the joys of 
selenium toner, which even on cold paper adds depth to the shadows 
and protects from oxydization.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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ingenuity sought

[dep]

greets, folks!

i'm engaged in a little project here, and it's moving along nicely 
except that i hope to do a thing or two that i do not know how to do.

the project is this: last september i took pictures of the wedding of 
some friends, all digital, all 1600x1200 so that they print nicely. i 
hope to put together a cd of them for them -- in fact, several, so 
they can send them to their friends. i have a nice little script that 
generates cute little thumbnails and so on, all in html, so anyone 
will be able to use the cd to view the pictures.

the problem is that most people do not have 1600x1200 monitors, so 
viewing will be a pain unless i can *also* provide, for computer 
viewing, say 640x480 images.

there are a couple hundred pictures. opening them one after another 
in the gimp and downsizing them is something that unappeals to me so 
much you cannot believe it.

additionally, i want to preserve the filenames, perhaps with an s 
prepended to each for the small images, so that people who want to 
have prints made will be able to know the proper filename.

i am hoping that there is some utility that will do this as a batch, 
and perhaps a script that will do it all on one pass. i have no idea 
where to begin to look.

suggestions?

thanks.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: ingenuity sought

[dep]

On Saturday 12 January 2002 21:33, Joel Hammer wrote:
| What format are the pictures in?
| Joel

jpeg
--
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: Suse filing Chap. 11?

[dep]

On Wednesday 03 October 2001 08:50, Susan Macchia wrote:
| I heard from a co-worker that Suse filed chapter 11.  Does anyone
| know if this is simply a rumour?

http://www.suse.com/us/suse/news/PressReleases/investment.html
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: NSA secure linux

[dep]

On Monday 01 October 2001 19:12, JW wrote:

| I was thinking the same thing, remembering the
| NSA-backdoor-in-Win2k thing.

which was *also* paranoid gibberish.

| But I'm wondering,
|
| 1. Has anybody boldly asked NSA if they've put any sort of backdoor
| in their distro, just to see what sort of response they get? 2. Is
| it Open Source
| 3. If it is, has anyone gone looking through their code for
| backdoors?

1. it's not a distribution.
2. and 3. why not go to their site and take a look? 
http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/index.html

and optional at no extra charge, why not look at how all of this has 
been gone over throughly on the kernel mailing list?
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: CNN poll

[dep]

On Thursday 20 September 2001 08:35, DOUGLAS HUNLEY wrote:
| CNN (http://www.cnn.com) is currently running a poll on their front
| page concerning whether you'd be willing to let the government
| control more of your life in exchange for a sense of security...
| Everyone please go register your opinion so the lawmakers can know
| your true feelings about having your privacy and crypto and civil
| liberties taken away

despite what they think, cnn is not the government.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: I am afraid...

[dep]

On Tuesday 18 September 2001 02:03, Chang wrote:
| you guys interseted me,. where is the full documentation for these?
| iinternal useonly? or you guys were playing with numbers? :)

we're talking the calibre of service longarms. .303 is the standard 
british cartridge of most of the 20th century. .308 is the ballsy 
nato cartridge, while .223 is the pipsqueak m-16 round. (throughout 
history, he who has the biggest bore wins the war.) .50 is a dandy 
big-bore cartridge; .45, though not mentioned, is what will greet and 
instantly stop anybody coming uninvited through the front door here 
if i can't get to the shotgun.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 18 September 2001 04:22, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

| And if you go to Riyadh today, it is the worst of Western urban
| sprawl, fast food, junk strip malls and cars. Of course, it has
| been their decision to import this aspect of the West, but many a
| Saudi look with sorrow at what their country has become. When I
| fist went to the Kingdom, I expected more in the way of exotica:
| Arab influenced architecture, local food, local customs. I found a
| major street called 'Pepsi Road' because the bottling plant is
| there. And more fast food per square foot than I ever thought was
| possible. And MTV on the TV. And far too much poorly built and
| maintained '70s western-style concrete block buildings. This is
| what they think American culture is. It is, sadly, what we export
| so well. It is not us. We are much more. But to these countries,
| this is their experience. If I had a culture and it was replaced
| with this, I would be upset. Too bad they don't understand that the
| choice was theirs all along. But they don't want to take the blame
| for the situation. So, we are called 'cultural imperialists'. And
| the royal family our co-conspirators.

yeah. not so bad in kuwait city, but it was amazing in a truly 
horrible sort of way that the in-flight movie i *always* drew was 
tennage mutant ninja turtles 3 dubbed in arabic. and egyptian soap 
operas. frankly, i would far rather have seen their equivalent of our 
old fess parker as davy crockett. a little dunes-n-robes stuff.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: Special Report

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 19:13, burns wrote:

| I was under the understanding that the 30:30, 308, 3006, 303, etc.
| were all 30 caliber bores but had differences in the design of the
| cartridge. The history of the numerical designation varies, as an
| example the 30 ought 6 was supposedly first designed in 1906.

not exactly. your description of the .30-'06 is correct. but the 
mini-30 uses the 7.62x39mm russian cartridge. ruger made the bore 
diameter too small. as a result, it is inaccurate and in some cases 
dangerous.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: I am afraid...

[dep]

On Tuesday 18 September 2001 09:18, Glenn Williams wrote:

| How about this rule: U.S. Pistol, cal .45, M1911A1

which we also wimped out on, adopting the ridiculous 9mm instead. we 
need to go back to the colt, and we need to fully embrace .308, and 
anybody who ain't man enough for it ought to be doing something else.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
___
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Re: I am afraid...

[dep]

On Tuesday 18 September 2001 19:12, Lee wrote:

| Not so wimpy. The 223 has more knock down than the .303. The bullet
| moves at 3,300 ft/sec and spins at anywhere between 18,000 to
| 24,000 rpm (depending on rifling twist). When it hits something
| soft it tends to keyhole (turns end for end) at the same time it is
| still spinning at 24,000 rpm. It's like getting hit with a ball of
| whirling razor blades.  Its only draw back is that it is a lousy
| round in brush, that's where the heavier slower .303 has an
| advantage. There aren't a lot of bushes in Afghanistan.

i'll go with the big, heavy, slower bullet everytime. we don't have 
true hydrostatic shock in the .223 yet -- jeff cooper wrote 
wonderfully 25 years ago about a .17 spitzer out of a gas-operated 
pistol at 4,500 fps. *that* would produce hydrostatic shock.

and i've yet to see *any* reputable study that gives greater stopping 
power to a smaller slug. the advantage of the big slug is that it 
expends its energy in the target, instead of whatever is behind the 
target.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: Special Report

[dep]

On Tuesday 18 September 2001 20:01, Warren Rasmussen wrote:

| I'm just back from spending Saturday as a part of the volunteer
| effort in NYC so I've been lurking and enjoying this thread. It
| was an incredible experience. I'm a New Yorker by birth so when
| they attack your home you have to go.

thank you. there have been many heroes in this, and you are among 
them.

| As far as Ruger is concerned, I worked on a project some time
| ago now involving the Ruger M77 hunting rifle. They made
| approximately 1,100,000 of them. Only problem was they could go
| off just leaning up against the wall. On the advice of their
| lawyers they mounted a retrofit campaign with adds in all the
| outdoor and hunting mags asking owners of those guns to fill out
| a little coupon with the serial numbers of the guns they had and
| they would be sent free a kit ( which consisted of a small
| allen wrench and a set screw ). After about 100,000 kits had
| been sent out, old man Ruger decided to pull the plug since he
| felt it was bad publicity and might hurt sales. That left
| approx. 1 million rifles unfixed.

ruger has done some dandy stuff over the years, but my sense is that 
they're pretty flaky as a company.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 03:30, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
| The US just has to accept the fact that they cannot make the world 
| safe. 

i believe you will discover that we have lost all interest in making 
the world safe and instead now shall make the u.s. safe, and if that 
means draconian measures elsewhere, tough. if you look at our 
national debt, you'll find that it in considerable measure comprises 
money that we have given other countries in little trifles like the 
marshall plan to rebuild europe at the end of world war II, in war 
debt owed us by european countries that shall never repay it and 
shall never be asked to repay it, in monies that we have given 
developing countries around the world -- we don't believe it's a 
zero-sum game, instead that every nation and all peoples can prosper 
-- and we're repaid with sniping, hatred, and, now, not only the 
events of last tuesday but a substantial number of presumably well 
meaning but startlingly naive people proposing that we some how 
deserved it all.

you will see our attitude changing. you will discover that you liked 
our old attitude better.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 08:09, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
| But if we look at the bin Laden complaint against the US:
|
|   - The US currently has a state of military occupation in
| KSA (Saudi Arabia). The US came when Iraq acted up, but they
| have not left.

we have been asked to stay, repeatedly and continuously, by the saudi 
royal family.

|   - bin Laden has problems with the KSA royal family. He, and
| many others too afraid to say so, would prefer a proper
| Islamic setup, perhaps like in Iran these days. However,
| the US is, effectively, supporting continued suppression of
| the Saudi peoples by their support of the royal family.

proper islamic setup? you, sir, are guilty of perhaps the greatest 
ethnic slur that could be uttered, for you have in that statement 
painted all islamic peoples with the bin laden brush. iran, shiite, 
would love nothing more than to see all the sunnis fall, which 
includes bin laden, afghanistan, iraq, and a substantial portion of 
the arab world (iranians, by the way, are not arabs). in short, like 
so many europeans, you have no goddam idea what you're talking about.

|   - So, he wants the US out of KSA so the country can move forward.
| As long as the US stays, he feels it is a military occupation
| that does more to support the royal family than to deter Iraq
| or increase peace in the area. And, peace in KSA and the Gulf at
| the price of attacks at home?

your definition if forward is a peculiar one. and we do not give a 
toot as to what he feels until what he feels is the fires of hell, 
which shall be coming along to collect him shortly. 

| In no way does this justify September 11th.

ah yes, the whole the u.s. had it coming, but that's not to say that 
the u.s. had it coming crap we're beginning to hear from the 
cheese-eating surrender monkeys of the world.

| But if the US would
| just stay out of some problems, all might be better off. As to the
| concern over oil, well, there are other sources than KSA. If an
| Islamic regime started by cutting back on oil, then so be it.
| Conserve. It is possible.
|
| I still agree with Keith that terrorism will not go away. There
| will never be a time when everyone is content. So why go out of
| your way to be a target?

your ringing endorsement of cowardice is duly noted.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 10:02, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

| I write from Sweden, but I am an American. I have lived here many
| years, but I still have a US passport. I saw no advantage to not
| having one. These days, i dunno...

do what you think is right or, lacking that, what you think best 
enhances your personal safety. you have probably picked a good place 
to be.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 10:58, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

| So we stay. But in the context of my very first sentence, the next
| statement explained why HE, BIN LADEN, WHO'S POINT OF VIEW I WAS
| PRESENTING, feels this is a problem. Perhaps that was not clear
| enough in the opening line of my post.

if i misread you, i apologize. we're starting to hear bigtime from 
the blame america first crowd, and i have no patience for them. i've 
seen several people put forward the arguments you made as if they 
were gospel, and again, i'm sorry if i interpreted your remarks as 
being along that line, which in my estimation is intolerable.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 11:10, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

| This week I was to be in Riyadh. For the first time I can remember,
| I really have been a bit afraid to go. Due to flight delays, my
| VISA has been held up. Sort of saved by the bell.

yeah. i'd do my best to avoid that part of the world. frankly, until 
there's a better handle on this, i'd do my best to avoid being in 
crowds as well. and i'd stay in touch with the embassy -- there's 
some possibility that it will for a change be issuing good 
information. but saudia is never the best place to be, and the things 
that are going to unfold are likely to make a bad place to be a much 
worse place to be.

| This is probably a bit of an explaination for my incessant
| rumblings on this here. This is a first for me. I have never felt
| being an American abroad was a problem. Most people have far more
| complaints against the Germans, who are the real ones throwing
| their economic weight around in this part of the world. Not to
| mention their territorial beach behavior.

yeah. germany has decided that they're willing to fight this war to 
the last american. there's a lot of backchannel jockeying for 
position. italy has decided to cheer us on from the sidelines, but 
the last time italy defeated anybody their opponent was equipped with 
spears and rocks -- a little less threatening than is current 
afghanistan, but not much -- so that little matters. i think that 
it's pretty clear that the u.s. can count on the u.s., and if anybody 
else comes along, fine. but we're the target of the bad guys, and the 
bad guys are the target of us.

| A friend of mine in southern France has said that they have been
| warned to be discrete in speaking English and being identified as
| an American. There is concern that bin Laden's suggestion that 'if
| you see an American, kill him' might start to happen.

i think that it is highly likely that there will be some of this. and 
i think it's important to remember that while bin laden may have had 
a part in this, there is every reason to think he was far from alone.

| I was joking on the 'i dunno...' thing. I have no intention of
| giving up citizenship. Maybe just the accent.

yeah. an american passport is a more grave thing today than ever 
before. here's to you for taking some pride in it, because where you 
are it's a lot more meaningful -- it's easy to wave the flag over 
here.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 11:22, Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
| Why dont you burn your pasport and go have some crepes and fruit,
| you have been away from meat and potatoes too long.

unfair. roger has explained his meaning, and he's one of the good 
guys. you wanna see the bad guys, look here:

http://www.beatbackbush.org/index1.html
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

score one for our side. in several ways. an european cracker busted 
open a mailing list used by, among others, some of the people who 
committed the atrocity last week, and posted the list of 500 email 
addresses. story is here:

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/medien/0,1518,157759,00.html
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: I am afraid...

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 19:56, Bill Campbell wrote:

| Speak for yourself.  I prefer ``Live Free or Die''.

i see you and raise you fifty: i prefer let me live free. and if you 
don't, prepare to die.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: New York WTCTID

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 20:01, Joel Hammer wrote:
| H is no different from SM
| (Stalin and Mao.)

yeah he is. he killed nowhere near as many people as the other two 
did.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: I am afraid...

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 21:07, Chang wrote:
| Then find out why Ladden did it? Talk to him before making a
| military arrest.  :)

as i understand it, our arrest of him will be under a provision of 
british military law, rule .303. we had a version of that, rule .308, 
but we wimped out and now are stuck with our own rule .223.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: Special Report

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 21:00, stayler wrote:
| WEATHER REPORT FOR KABUL, AFGHANISTAN
|
| Today, partly sunny, temp in the 80s and winds from the west at 10
| mph. Tomorrow, sunny in the morning, temperatures rising in the
| afternoon to 3000
| degrees
| and winds approaching 750 mph.
| Have a nice day.

you may be close to right. we're removing all nonessential americans 
from pakistan. and we have a little something else going on that will 
astound you. and no, it doesn't have anything directly to do with 
your forecast. 
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: I am afraid...

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 09:09, Jerry McBride wrote:

| I'd rather submit to random searches than random acts of terrorism.

i'd rather be vigilant and get to my weapon before he can get to his. 

| Damn that bastard for what he's done to us. Damn him all the way to
| his grave.

entirely right. except for one thing -- it's those bastards. there 
are a lot of them, in a multitude of countries. just remember that we 
shall be making life for those who so much as smiled last tuesday 
nasty, brutish, and short.

| I've burned his image into my mind and as sure as you are my
| witness, I will clean his plate on sight...

i would be delighted to have the honor of personally kicking big blue 
out the back of a c-130 over any of a number of cities, from khartoum 
to baghdad to damascus. though this would do, too.
http://www.mn.afrl.af.mil/public/mnme/mnme.html
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: I am afraid...

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 22:57, Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
| I think that shortly we will be able to use rule .270 or .300 under
| the personal choice option.
| Also, I do believe that rule .50 should be seriously considered as
| a good long range solution.

here's a not-bad choice:

http://www.hkpro.com/oicw.htm
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: Special Report

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 22:59, Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
| A seagull told me that the UK is going to do some house cleaning
| soon.

true. and i have my jungle carbine -- i heard that they can be 
rechambered to .308, but i don't know the details (hell -- i don't 
know anybody who can fix the bore of my mini-30, either) -- right 
here. and if the saladin horde comes up the hill -- well, it wouldn't 
be a crowd exactly unfamiliar with the .303 message.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: I wonder

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 23:54, Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
| Do you know that when Pakistan detonated their last nuclear test
| there was a quake two days later, a 7.0 in Afghanistan. They both
| sit on the same fault. What if you just setup on the northern
| border of Afghanistan and drill a nice deep series of holes. Like
| you were drilling for oil.Then you loaded it with small nukes at
| say 1, 9000, 8000 feet. Would that crumple most caves around
| for miles? You just have to know the area he is in, not the exact
| spot. the ecos are placitated because the radiation is contained,
| the country just suffers a significant(9.0 eathquake) natural
| disaster. The UN aid comes flooding in and the tribes are back to
| their good old fueding over poppy fields.

relax. the dimwitted taliban are putting their scuds on the pakistani 
border. hell, a squadron of A-10s could blow 'em all up on the pads. 
these guys are pretty good at bullying war-wearied people in mud 
huts, but military geniuses they ain't. nor will it take nukes to 
nuke 'em. don't be surprised if there's a shiite regime in kabul 
before long.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Monday 17 September 2001 12:06, burns wrote:

|| A thinly disguised front for what otherwise would be the The
| Coomunist League of America, Anarchists R Us, and the National
| Front for the Liberation  Promotion of Almost Everyone that
| Doesn't Earn a Paycheck Through Honest Work.

damn straight. don't be surprised if the 29 september rally gets 
canceled. they're aware that there will be tens of thousands of 
people there to greet them.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: I am afraid...

[dep]

On Tuesday 18 September 2001 00:12, Ralph Sanford wrote:

a tremendous amout, all of it *exactly* right, the definition of 
those willing to stand up on their hind legs and roar as opposed to 
those who walk on all fours and whimper.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: Special Report

[dep]

On Tuesday 18 September 2001 00:35, Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
| All you need to have is boring and chamfering done to match the
| .308 brass, nothing else as they are both short shells. Most .303's
| I've seen are shot out and not too accurate. Good enough for 100
| yard deer guns but not 300 yards or more. So unless you are doing
| it because you cant find .303 shells where you live, fine,
| otherwise dont waste money on it. Go to a gun show and get parts
| left and right for the mini-30.

the jungle carbine is absolutely mint -- and no, it's not one of the 
repros. maybe 500 rounds through it.

as to deer -- it would take a lot of work to get the deer to move 
back 100 yards. i personally know of -- no names here -- someone who 
last fall took down a big doe at about 20 feet with a benjamin .22 
pellet gun, eight pumps, shot to the forehead. i mean, pop, down, no 
movement -- or so i'm told. and i heard that it fed us well for most 
of the winter, but i cannot confirm it.

the problem with the mini is that ruger seems not to have measured 
the slug and the bore is too frigging small. it's not bad with 
linotype metal slugs, if spending a few hours getting rid of the 
leading is of no concern -- one can chamber an empty full of mercury 
and do it that way, though a lewis lead remover in 7.62 would be nice 
-- but it's just stupid to screw around with casting and reloading, 
given how cheap jacketed stuff is. and here in the oh so correct 
northeast, gun shows are pretty rare.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)

[dep]

On Sunday 16 September 2001 12:43, Bill Campbell wrote:

| Didn't Hillary recommend clemency for Palestinian terrorists?

and for the FALN terrorists who set off bombs in new york city -- 
including the one at police headquarters that killed several cops. 
and we mustn't forget her embrace of mrs. arafat.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: New York WTC: Not more guns

[dep]

On Sunday 16 September 2001 20:25, R. Quenett wrote:

| Accepting ab initio the impossibility of the perfect, I personally
| would *far* rather take my chances in any situation in which both I
| and the people around me were free to arm ourselves as we chose
| than in any situation in which I and they were compelled to consign
| ourselves and our safety to the care of any government official,
| however well intentioned, well trained, and professional the first
| cohort of these might be at their beginning.
|
| Government (generally) has been shown to be utterly incompetent at
| ensuring airline security (El Al is not a counterexample). They
| should get out of the business. Now.

absolutely, entirely, utterly correct. in all respects.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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Re: Fwd: FW: teacher

[dep]

On Sunday 16 September 2001 23:04, Chang wrote:
| Touching, but I suppose she still don't know what her country was
| doing behind her back. :)

so, see? you and she have that in common.

-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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a note from an emt and a friend

[dep]

I and many like me, have just finished a full day at ground zero, 
WTC..NYC. To the American people, Thank You for your words, food, 
drink, and encouragment. To attempt to describe to you what utter 
devastation was wrought on that terrible day is impossible. Thousands 
of tons of twisted metal and shards of glass. Hard work, sweat, blood 
and tears broken only by the calls for the Chaplain or M.E. 
whenever we find the body of a fireman or policeman, or simply a 
piece of someone's mother, father, sister, brother or wife or 
husband. The dust, you can taste through your mask, the smell of 
burning rubber and insulation permeates your skin and lungs, and 
every once in a while you get a whiff of that all too familiar smell 
which is the scent no one wants to injest. Slowly and surely you dig, 
and scoop and cut and dump, only to be stopped and forced to run, 
when the buildings above you begin to rumble and crack. You have 
ironworkers and FBI agents working shoulder to shoulder, with a 
shared sense of purpose. You eat when your hungry, drink when you are 
thirsty and sleep if you can. Fire Trucks are crushed to the size of 
small children's play cars. You work standing on a debris pile, 
knowing you may be standing on someone you know, or standing a pile 
which could collapse and sent you into the grey concrete tombs. You 
work alongside New York's Bravest as they search for their own, and 
watch them cry when they get the answer they were looking for but 
feared all at once. You fight the bile back down your throat when you 
dig and your shovel smacks flesh, and you have to keep digging to 
give one more family closure.
I've also worked side by side with men and women from Chicago, Los 
Angeles, Indianapolis and Sacramento. Ive talked to men and women 
from Atlanta, Houston, Dallas and OKC. Once again, thank you America 
for sending us your best and bravest to help us. We will survive and 
grow stronger with unity and pride. We in New York, love you and pray 
for you as well.
Finally, to the human excrement that committed this atrocity, you 
dont know my city! You dont know our spirit, our unity, our love of 
freedom. You took a part of me away, the first date I ever had with 
my loving wife was at the atrium of the WTC, when I was in the Army, 
and would come home on leave. I'd fly into Newark and drive home and 
see those shining spires on the water, and feel warm to know I was 
home. My children will never experience that, YOU BASTARDS!! You dont 
know my America, Our pride, unity, love and devotion to freedom and 
each other. Black, white, jew, christian and non believer alike, it 
doesnt matter at a time like this. You have attempted to rape the 
soul of America and you have failed. We will come for you soon, be it 
day or night. We will come like the ancient warriors of history, in 
waves and waves of strength, determination and revenge. You have 
awakened the sleeping giant, sleep well if you can. WE ARE COMING.
 Thank you all again for your prayers, support and love. New York 
will be back and America will again be the shining city on the hill.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
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re: a note from an emt and a friend

[dep]

my bad: my quote marks didn't arrive in my mind until after i hit 
send -- the note is pasted from a message i received.
-- 
dep

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;  
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand;
Beware the  
People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

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Re: Am immodest proposal (forgive me, Mr. Swift)

[dep]

On Friday 14 September 2001 03:13, Richard Thompson wrote:

| This list, and its progenitor, provides forums for some of the most
| articuate, intelligent and well respected minds in the linux
| community today. There is a wealth of collective knowledge here
| that could be put to many uses - including helping rid the world of
| the twin evils of intollerance and selfrighteousness.

there are worse things than either of these. drop by and i'll take 
you downtown and show you one.

| Evil on the scale we have recently witnessed requires money - lots
| of it.  It requires organization, support, dedication and lots and
| lots of money.  Any more, money, on this scale at least, requires
| an electronic presence.   I am certain that there are those here
| who know how to find that presence.  I am just as certain that
| there are those here who know how to make it stop working.

there are people in jail for having taken it upon themselves to 
undertake this sort of thing.

| Racist cracks about diaperheads, and sew him up alive in a
| gutted sow and leave the lot in the desert sun to dry rhetoric
| borne of anger and frustration is likely a necessary part of the
| healing process, but its ultimate profitability is questionable. 

how is either of the above racist? tell an iranian he's of the same 
race as an iraqi and, in your final moments, you'll learn what *real* 
racism is.

| There is evil aplenty in the world to oppose - find it, shut it
| down.  Deprive evil of its cover, make it wonder if the wire
| transfer went through, or what the home page of the fund raising
| web site in Hamburg will say this morning or how it is that its
| email got re-routed to the New York Times.

these guys do not get their funding via paypal. they're supported by 
saudia, by iraq, by syria, and by others. we are now saying to those 
countries: shut them down or we'll shut you down, and right now we 
don't especially care which it is, but you very much do care, because 
we can crush you, and will.

-- 
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Re: Fwd: Miami Herald Editorial

[dep]

On Friday 14 September 2001 09:58, Bruce Marshall wrote:

| Very well put.   I've always wondered why we didn't give the
| Japanese the 'demo' version firstas in:  fire the bomb off
| about 5 miles offshore where it would have done much less damage
| but yet show its force.

because a.) we only had two of them and b.) it took both to bring 
japan down, and c.) we were by no means certain that they would go 
off. this from my old friend richard feynman, who was part of the 
manhattan project (and who won a nobel prize in physics), who was by 
no means a war monger -- his best friend in the project was klaus 
fuchs -- but who went out of his way not to apologize.
-- 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Friday 14 September 2001 11:19, Glenn Williams wrote:

| I agree.  This seems to me the most sensible approach.

yes. that's how bill pinprick clinton abolished terrorism from the 
face of the earth, thereby makinf sure that tuesday didn't happen.

no, time is now to ignore our concerns about the countries that 
harbor terrorists and simply to eliminate those countries. which, by 
the way, we shall.
-- 
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Re: WTC

[dep]

On Friday 14 September 2001 14:33, Bruce Marshall wrote:

| On it's way.   It is in .ppt(PowerPoint)

and it is wonderfully put together, chilling, heartbreaking.

-- 
dep
 
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Re: WTC

[dep]

On Friday 14 September 2001 15:08, Bruce Marshall wrote:

| How'd you get it so fast?just curious

i'm here at the intersection of power and wisdom, and the express bus 
stops at the corner.

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Re: WTC

[dep]

On Friday 14 September 2001 18:41, Bruce Marshall wrote:
| On Friday 14 September 2001 17:05 pm, dep wrote:
|  | How'd you get it so fast?    just curious
| 
|  i'm here at the intersection of power and wisdom, and the express
|  bus stops at the corner.
|
| Oh,. right there by the flag pole... ok.

you got it.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Friday 14 September 2001 19:28, Keith Antoine wrote:

| What the US and it's allies do, will be carefully watched by all.
| It is imperative that the US comes out of all this looking
| snow-white and in shining armour. 

unfortunately, it is exactly this consideration that made tuesday 
possible.
-- 
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Re: I noticed

[dep]

On Thursday 13 September 2001 03:22, Keith Antoine wrote:
| I noticed that it took a tradgedy such as we have seen in the last
| 48hrs to bring solidarity to the UN, and it backs the US. Why does
| it always take such an act before man examines himself, why is it
| we are so complacent, why ??

because we are a free people, accustomed to and jealously guarding of 
our freedom. and, sadly, because it is not in us to find pure evil in 
others. it *does* take something big. but history suggests that when 
we do finally respond, the response is memorable (we can forget the 
last eight years, which were, it is to be hoped, a regrettable 
anomaly).

as to the u.n. coming together -- right now, the u.n. is probably 
chiefly concerned over the distinct possibility that americans join 
together and physically push the damned thing into the east river. 
something that in my estimation is long overdue anyway.
-- 
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Re: A good report from Canada

[dep]

On Thursday 13 September 2001 05:10, Chang wrote:
| i hate to say this:
| to be truely peaceful, you gotta sign the treaty on CO2 emission.
| :)

oh yeah? the one that says the u.s. is a bad guy, while china and 
everybody else can do as they please? what part of not bloody 
likely are you having difficulty understanding?
-- 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Thursday 13 September 2001 21:42, Joel Hammer wrote:

| Those who cry out for no restraints on personal freedom may find
| one day their personal choices reduced to burning to death or
| jumping 80 stories. Joel

those who cry out for no restraints on personal freedoms will happily 
point out to you that, as has been the case on the lirr and elsewhere 
in the past, one good man with a gun would have solved the problem 
with considerably less loss of life. 
-- 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Thursday 13 September 2001 22:01, Net Llama wrote:
| --- dep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|  On Thursday 13 September 2001 21:39, Net Llama wrote:
|  | I believe Yoda put this quite well:
|  | Luke:  But he was a great warrior!
|  | Yoda:  Wars do not make one great.
| 
|  yoda is, um, a character in a movie.
|
| So?  Does that make the words less relevant?

no, they'd be irrelevent no matter who said them; in this case, 
though, it was a puppet.
-- 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Thursday 13 September 2001 22:30, Bruce Marshall wrote:

|  I agree. Why they don't arm the pilots is beyond me.
|  Joel
|
| Good thought but I think the problem is that they would have a
| dillemma if some crazies are banging on the cockpit door while they
| hold a knife to one or more stews/passengers and all the while the
| pilots are supposed to be flying the plane.Doesn't sound like a
| healthy situation to me.
|
| If there were 3 or 4 crazies, the pilots would probably have to
| shoot through 3 or 4 hostages in order to kill the crazies.   Might
| be a necessary trade-off but still not a nice situation.

in all known experience, people who want to hijack planes manage to 
do it, in no small measure because the people onboard are sitting 
ducks. and if even two or three passengers chose to be armed, there 
is nothing in world history to suggest that their being armed would 
cause them suddenly to become hijackers.
-- 
dep
 
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Re: wtc2.org?

[dep]

On Wednesday 12 September 2001 20:16, Kurt Wall wrote:
| JW wrote:
|  Yes, but there's one thing DON'T make it a Sky Scraper. Sky
|  Scrapers have been targets for years, and will continue to be.
| 
|  As long ago as 1994 (and probably father back then that) the CIA
|  came across documents Muslim extremists had written, vowing to
|  destroy and tear down Those tall buildings, America's Temples.
|
| Which is precisely why WTC *should* be rebuilt -- I'd rather roast
| in hell than even appear to be intimidated.

yup. entirely right. and here's what it should look like:

http://www.scripting.com/images/flippinTheWtc.jpg
-- 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 09:37, Shawn Tayler wrote:
| Hey guys, I know this is way off topic, but take a look at the
| network news.  2 aircraft have crashed into thew World Trade Center
| in New York  Might be a Terrorist attack  The film I saw
| showed a commercial airliner as the second craft.

pne of the towers has now collapses. and a third plane crashed into 
the pentagon.

this is the biggest attack on the u.s. since the war of 1812.

-- 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 10:48, Jim Conner wrote:

| I was able to get blurbs here on the local tv stations page.
|
| http://www.wlfi.com
|
| Dang, guess I'll have to wait till later when I can get to the web
| pages to read the news.

low-tech though it is, you might try a television.

i'm making a list of the people who i know who are probably now dead.
-- 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 11:00, Net Llama wrote:
| Here's what i've heard:
| 1) *BOTH* WTC towers have collapsed after having planes collide
| into them.
| 2) 2 planes have crashed into the Pentagon, and part of it has
| collapsed 3) A carbomb has gone off in front of the state dept.
| 4) ALL US airports have been closed

a 767 crashed near pittsburgh.

and all the planes were apparently hijacked planes full of passengers.

-- 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 11:00, Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
| BS, this calls for an allout war on ALL terrorists. No stopping
| till there are no more, no matter what it takes or where it takes
| the US. It is time for the US to rethink it policy of NOT
| assinating political leaders

amen. we've dealt with these diaper-headed lice for long enough. time 
now to demonstrate how we can give 'em a first-class airburst ticket 
to see allah. bet they'll be surprised at how warm it is where he 
hangs out.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

thought you'd be interested in knowing that one of the reasons new 
york city has been sealed off is fear of biological agents.
-- 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 11:40, JW wrote:
| At 11:34 AM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
| thought you'd be interested in knowing that one of the reasons new
| york city has been sealed off is fear of biological agents.
|
| Makes you think twice about supporting on that sort of stuff,
| doesn't it? I would hope so anyway.

which is why we don't. say hello to china.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 12:59, Douglas J. Hunley wrote:

| Let me tell you this. 3 planes hit the trade towers. 1 hit one,2
| hit the other. a car bomb at the defense department. 2 planes
| against pentagon. 1 plane hit camp david. a plane crashed in pa. it
| took off from NJ and was headed to California. there are 4, I
| repeat FOUR more acknowledged planes that are missing.

i've been talking with friends in interesting places, and apparently 
it's just two into wtc, one into the pentagon, car bomb at the state 
department, the united flight that crashed in pennsylvania. two 
overseas flights, incoming, refuse to respond to air traffic control. 
and if they continue to refuse to respond i hope, god forgive me, 
that they're shot down over the water.
-- 
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Re: More of this terrible infamous day... WAS: Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 13:38, Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
| I do know taht the order to divert all inbound from Euorpe to
| Canada was changed. This tells me that we are going to keep
| casualties to our soil if at all possible and any planes that are
| removed will be done in our airspace by our military.

anyone interested in seeing the most amazing photograph maybe in the 
history of the art ought to go to www.drudgereport.com right now.

-- 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 14:49, Kurt Wall wrote:

| I pray you're wrong, my friend.

me, too. never have i prayed so hard to be wrong.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 17:29, Jay Nugent wrote:

|Thanks to Microsoft Flight Simulator it is extreamly easy to fly
| ANY large commercial aircraft (available in the list of aircraft in
| the simulator) into the WTC.  How many of us have flown between the
| two antennas atop the Sears Tower?  And how many have flown INTO
| various buildings???  MS Flight Simulator could have been a
| training aid for these hijackers/suicide pilots...

i sincerely hope that all terrorists limit their flight instruction 
to that which they receive from microsoft flight simulator, which is 
no more like flying than a playstation nascar game is like racing 
automobiles.

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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 19:20, JW wrote:

| I saw a documentary on this subject once that showed some of the
| group or Islamic extremists  who were actually connected with one
| of these horrible things a few years ago (I forget which one now)
| had an office in Richardson, TX. They interviewed one man in
| particular, I forget his name, who is an American citizen and
| boasted of planned and hoped for Islamic uprisings in America and
| so forth in exactly the way the internationals do

you might want to drop by slashdot and see if everybody there is as 
outraged as they were a few days ago when the website of 
aforementioned islamic outfit was raided.
-- 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 21:17, Bruce Marshall wrote:

| Then we agree to disagree... My qualifications:   Commercial
| pilot/flight instructor,  instrument 2,500 hours.

wow! a cfi with commercial and instrument. betcha even have multi.
-- 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 22:43, Ronnie Gauthier wrote:
| A report on ABC just stated that New Jersey police have stopped and
| detained two individuals driving a truck loaded with explosives.

yup. caught in the meadowlands, headed for the gw bridge. nothing 
else much known, though. same m.o. as the original wtc attack as well 
as the aborted shot at the lincoln tunnel.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 23:22, Bruce Marshall wrote:

| BTW, many/most of those hours were out of your hometown.

which hometown? 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 23:38, JW wrote:
| At 08:26 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
| On Tuesday 11 September 2001 19:20, JW wrote:
| you might want to drop by slashdot and see if everybody there is
|  as outraged as they were a few days ago when the website of
| aforementioned islamic outfit was raided.
|
| Whoa dude! What are you talking about?

in the last four or five days, there was much outrage on /. having to 
do with the feds closing down the website of an islamic 
fundamentalist outfit based in texas. i did a brief search there this 
evening and didn't find it, but also didn't do much of a search. 
anyway, the community was outraged that dem ol' debbil feds would 
do such a thing. i wonder, now, what they'd picked up that led them 
to it.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Tuesday 11 September 2001 23:59, Joel Hammer wrote:
| This is going to be depressing if the whole affair was done by 10
| guys with knives.

it wasn't.
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Wednesday 12 September 2001 00:11, Bruce Marshall wrote:
| On Tuesday 11 September 2001 23:47 pm, dep wrote:
|  On Tuesday 11 September 2001 23:22, Bruce Marshall wrote:
|  | BTW, many/most of those hours were out of your hometown.
| 
|  which hometown?
|
| Danbury

ah. in recent years i've flown out of HPN. danbury is just too weird, 
though the restaurant is very good.
-- 
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Re: New York WTC

[dep]

On Wednesday 12 September 2001 00:29, Keith Antoine wrote:

much wisdom born of experience, for which i thank him.

sadly, we here in the u.s. are at war; whether the government 
realizes it or not i do not know. i had a friend on one of the 
airplanes, and i still wait to learn whether the service we attend 
this weekend for another friend will be a wedding or a funeral. i've 
just now watched new footage of the second plane flying in to the 
wtc, and as a result modify my earlier thoughts: i do not wish to 
gutshoot the mastermind of all this with a .45. i wish to beat him to 
death with my fists and, when all the bones in my hands are broken, 
then work the trigger on my .45 on his associates.

let's put aside the notions of islam and anything else for a minute, 
and let's just adopt the notion that those who demonstrably misbehave 
can expect a bright flash from above. followed, a millisecond or two 
later, by reduction to their basic elements.

it looks as if maybe 20 people i know died today, given the death 
sentence for the crime of showing up to work; two or three of them 
were good friends. i suspect that this whole business was iraqi, but 
i'm not willing to remove from the party anybody who would have, 
given the chance.

we didn't ask for this. but we've been given it, and it's time to 
stop this candy-assing and give as good as we get. with interest, for 
america is always a good investment.
-- 
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