[LUTE] Re: Obbligato lute and theorbo
On Feb 3, 2015, at 1:57 AM, Diego Cantalupi wrote: > What I'm looking for is not lute as an obbligato continuo instrument, but as > a solo instrument (like Bach's Johannespassion). There’s Il Sacrifizio di Abramo by Camilla de Rossi (1708), which has concerto-like movements for lute. Barbara Garvey Jackson’s book Say Can You Deny Me, A Guide to Surviving Music by Women from the 16th through the 18th Centuries (a title which may exaggerate the dangers of music by women) lists several other Rossi works with “lute”, but I don’t know anything about them. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute in the Future
On Feb 26, 2015, at 10:34 AM, Christopher Wilke wrote: > Having been a victim of this system myself (repeatedly and much more > frequently lately, it seems), I can totally understand Ron's reticence in > naming names. Even describing scenarios in a general manner is a great way to > lose old friends, make fresh enemies and work yourself out of work. However, > a dismissive, "There's no Establishment or Conspiracy. You're paranoid," is > not an appropriate response to legitimate issues. But Danny said no such thing. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute in the Future again
On Feb 26, 2015, at 10:34 AM, Christopher Wilke wrote: > Keeping one's mouth shut and pretending there is no dysfunction in the early > music industry is absolutely unhealthy. We should ALL be keenly aware of that > in the wake of the recent Philip Pickett scandal. (For those who aren't > aware, Pickett was a long time professor of early music at the Guildhall > School of Music who, just convicted of raping several students, is currently > serving an 11-year prison term. Sickeningly, the school administration was > informed of his behavior and responded by telling the students to simply > switch schools.) I'm not suggesting that anyone else except Robert King > is involved in such horrible activities, nor are you being clear about the connection between it and what Ron or Danny wrote > but those who use their influence to squash the deserving deserve to be > called out. Isn't "calling them out" anonymously a contradiction in terms? I do understand that if you think the Powers That Be will be squelch those they disfavor, you don’t want to make them angry by naming Clyde Grevitz of the Rural Upstate New York Art Snobbling Council by name and Social Security number as a deserving-squasher. On the other hand, I don’t know what “our certain incorporated non-profit organizations” is meant to tell me, other than that Ron doesn’t like the way someone/thing somewhere is conducting its affairs. I can’t make a point of directing my next multimillion-dollar contribution to someone other than the offending organization if I don’t what it is. And I’m sure Mr. Grevitz and the RUNYASC would assume that the complaints don’t apply to them, since, in their view, they don’t squash anyone, but merely ignore the undeserving. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute in the Future again
On Feb 26, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Christopher Wilke wrote: > Howard, > > I'll be frank. You are having way too much fun tearing apart the sincere, > heartfelt confessions of musicians who - quite unlike yourself - are > struggling to simultaneously make a living and art in a difficult > environment. I could counter-refute your semantics, but I don't think that > would be productive as I suspect that you're really more interested in > playing "gotcha" logic games than advancing the discourse. > > You are free to disagree and contribute to the discussion in a constructive > way, of course. I would ask, however, that you consider replying a bit more > respectfully to those of us down in the trenches to whom topic is a more > personal one than it will be to someone such as yourself who holds no real > stake in the matter. > > Chris OK. I’ve waited a few hours and taken a lot of deep breaths, so this is me being calm. Danny wrote that he did not understand statements that unnamed organizations were doing unstated things that benefitted some unnamed persons and harmed other unnamed persons. Since any such statement, however “heartfelt” or however deep in the trenches it originates, is devoid of information and thus meaningless for any practical purpose, his remark was so obviously self-evident that I wonder why he even wasted the 30 seconds it took to type it. You responded by calling him a liar. This was beneath scorn, and certainly beneath you, and I think my response was measured, inasmuch as I chose to explain the substance (actually the lack of it) and ignore the personal attack on Danny. I have no idea why you thought you could get into a credibility contest with someone who has never made an ill-considered remark in all the years he’s been in the lute community, but you are way out of line. You should refrain from talking about “respect” until you’ve apologized to him. And don’t even get me started on "if one were make such statements, they would represent an inappropriately dismissive response to the issues under discussion.” You need to take a step back. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute in the Future again
On Feb 27, 2015, at 6:51 AM, Christopher Wilke wrote: > I apologize to you. I must say, I am entirely taken aback at your extremely > impassioned defense of Danny. This leads me to believe that I may have > somehow inadvertently touched upon some latent issues of your own beyond the > scope of this discussion. I did not mean to allude to anything other than the > topic at hand and I'm sorry if it was so taken. THAT’S what you took away from it??? Not that you were being both uninformative and offensive, but that I have "latent issues”? Really? Or do I just not understand your sense of humor? In any case, you should avoid directing such remarks to someone in California, where it’s illegal to practice psychotherapy without a license. Dr. Shoskes needed no defense from me, although I do take pains to stay on the good side of anyone who makes his living with sharp blades. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Written by Mrs. Bach
On Mar 1, 2015, at 9:32 AM, Rainer wrote: > Has any lute-netter in Germany or Switzerland seen "Written by Mrs. Bach" on > 3SAT yesterday evening? > > A certain Martins Jarvis claims that Anna Magdalena composed some of Bach's > finest works. Very funny… That would be Martin Jarvis, not the British actor, but a professor at Charles Darwin University (or Chuck D U, as the rappers call it) in Australia. This has come up before on this list. Anna Magdalena, Bach’s second wife, was his copyist. Don’t ask me where she found the time, but I suppose when you’re constantly dealing with a house full of children and you’re pregnant 12 times in 25 years (that’s nine years of pregnancy), you need a hobby you can do sitting down. The Jarvis theory is that her copy of the cello suites shows the sort of errors and whatnot that are made when composing rather than copying. I’m not kidding. (It's rather like my own theory that Beethoven was a talentless hack, and the greatest composer in history was the typesetter who had to decipher his illegible manuscripts; the difference is that I’ve never gone pubic with it. Oops…) Cellist Steven Isserlis discusses (well, disses) the “theory” (Jarvis’s, not mine) here: http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2014/oct/29/why-bach-wife-cannot-take-credit-for-his-cello-masterwork To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: green lute like instrument
On Mar 5, 2015, at 2:47 PM, John Mardinly wrote: > Don't gut strings and hide glue come from.dead animals? That’s why the European hoofed lizard is now extinct. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Two Rob MacKillop CDs now Online
On Mar 18, 2015, at 9:55 AM, Rob MacKillop wrote: > These two albums are now out of print and out of stock, and the record > company is OK about putting them online. You can't download them, but > you can hear them as often as you want on my soundcloud page. > Flowers Of The Forrest - my first solo album from 1998. Music from > Scotland for lute, cittern and "guittar”. This one seems to available on iTunes for $7.99 (or $25.74 if you buy each cut individually for 99 cents). https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/flowers-of-the-forest/id433372509 I haven’t checked the second album. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Two Rob MacKillop CDs now Online
On Mar 18, 2015, at 10:49 AM, howard posner wrote: > This one seems to available on iTunes for $7.99 It seems to BE available. iTunes is, like, the place to BE, man... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Two Rob MacKillop CDs now Online
On Mar 18, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Rob MacKillop wrote: > They've already put the albums on youtube Why would a record company do this? To collect advertising revenue? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Polyphonic Intabulations
Thanks for such an imposing amount of information packed into so few words. On Mar 19, 2015, at 3:20 AM, Hector Sequera wrote: > A few points about intabulations of sacred music in England. > > 1) Availability of English music was an issue since England started printing > music in the late 1560s (there are very few exceptions to this). And even > this was rather minimal (e.g. Thomas Whythourne’s Songs in three, fower and > five parts did not come but until 1571, Byrd’s first print came in 1575). > Meantime the Continent was going full swing with printers such as Attaignant, > Gardano, Scotto, etc churning books non stop (with errors, misattributions > and all). Furthermore, the fashion for printing vihuela music in Spain was > over by 1576; somebody may be able to share what happened after that. > > 2) The majority of the music intabulated is for 3 or 4 voices in a narrow > range (no more than two octaves plus a sixth). Conversely, William Byrd liked > what he called the Great Compass, an arrangement of clefs with G2 on top and > F4 at the bottom (unusual for the time), which allowed for a range of three > octaves and a bit. The narrower Continental range, also called ’normal clefs’ > or ‘low clefs’ etc, can be intabulated on a 6-course up to the 8th or 9th > fret (6th or 7th fret on a 7-course)… a very convenient part of the > instrument. > > 3) Another important consideration is that many continental composers used > the lute as their compositional tool (we have clear documentation on > Palestrina and Lasso, for instance). I happen to believe that Tallis did use > the lute but have not had the time to delve with this in any detail. > Conversely, it is very obvious that Byrd composed on the keyboard. > > 4) Despite all of this, we have about 500 surviving intabulations of music by > English and Continental composers in the collection of Edward Paston > (1550-1630); from Fayrfax and Josquin all the way to Victoria and Byrd. They > all lack the top part but are a good example of the Spanish tradition > transplanted to England for domestic use. > > Best wishes, > > Hector To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lutheran Hymns 4 lute?
The Lute Society of America Quarterly published a handful of chorales for 10-course lute a long time ago. Maybe someone else can be more specific. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Spain 2, Italy 1 in extratime
On May 7, 2015, at 7:45 AM, Ron Andrico wrote: > I have to say that > trivial details like historical facts are often purged from any story > based on historical drama in favor of popular appeal during the process > of adapting for the screen. And why not, when the audience wouldn’t know the difference, and even smartalecky critics can't distinguish between history and fantasy? Four years ago, his annoyance with The Tudors fresh in his mind, Ron gave us a link to a review of Camelot, the Starz (at least that’s who aired it in these parts) series, by Sarah Dempster in The Guardian, who intoned: "Two months after The Tudors staggered off on its 16th century pantomime cow, along clumps Camelot to remind us of the enduring appeal of the appallingly rendered historical epic.” Critics are as entitled to make fools of themselves, but I wonder why some editor didn't elbow her in the ribs and tell her that Camelot is no more “history" than Lord of the Rings is. And no, I haven’t seen her review of Game of Thrones (which, BTW, while set in a nonexistent world, nonetheless features some authentic-looking-and-sounding Renaissance-period instruments, particularly in scenes just before a king meets a violent end.) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tiorba
> On Jun 16, 2015, at 1:54 PM, Roland Hayes wrote: > > ..and Castaldi's illustration is phoney? The illustration you’re thinking of is almost certainly a tiorbino. That said, it’s inconceivable that in nearly two centuries nobody NO historical players ever used single-strung archlutes. It was as easy for them to do it as for us. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tiorba
> On Jun 16, 2015, at 2:37 PM, Christopher Wilke > wrote: > > But are any of the cool kids using strings that behave like the extra > lengths of string are behaving in this pic? Very kinky! What you’re probably seeing is the famous "tiorba apesca” or “bee-style theorbo,” also known as “snare-drum style," in which tangled extra lengths, and the right sleeve-ruffles that are all over the strings, cause the instrument to buzz. In the mid-18th century, the approach became known as “tiorba ala Hendrix,” the etymology of which is unclear. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Single-strung lutes
> On Jun 16, 2015, at 11:19 PM, Martyn Hodgson > wrote: > > Dear Howard, > > I think you mean unlikely rather than inconceivable. Of course, you know what I mean better than I do myself, so thanks for clarifying. > Tho' even this is questionable: from the historical evidence it seems quite > likely that 'NO historical players ever used single-strung archlutes''. Much > in the same way that players at the time would not have employed a single > strung lute. I’m interested to know the specific historical evidence making it likely that nobody, among the thousands of lute players between 1500 and 1800, ever used single strings on a lute or archlute. That the instruments were built for double stringing proves nothing, because we know such instruments can be single-strung. That’s how the topic came up. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Paduane in Triple Time
> On Jul 4, 2015, at 11:00 AM, jmpoirier2 wrote: > > Sure, but I can't remember pieces called Pavanes notated or played in > triple time... You’ll remember two obvious examples once someone mentions them: the sixth of Milan's pavanas, on page 82 of El Maestro (the 82nd page of my pdf version, anyway), and the “Pavana my llana para taner” on folio of Pisador’s book, which is barred in two but played in three, and is known in other sources as the galliard “La Gamba." To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Questions for Monica
> On Jul 5, 2015, at 5:08 PM, John Mardinly wrote: > > I just got the Jane Pickering lute book out of the Arizona State > University music library (Boethius Press, Robert Spencer ed., 1985), > and there are 12 pages bound upside down, although there are page > numbers that are not upside down and would be if the tablature was not > upside down. Has anybody else noticed/experienced this? I think you're looking at the pages that have the second part of a duet. They’re printed "upside down” to allow the duet to be read by players sitting across a table from each other. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Pickledherring Lute Book Upside-down pages
I should have actually looked at my copy of Jane Pickledherring’s Lute Book before I responded tp your last post, but I had to move what interior designers refer to as “a whole bunch of stuff” to get to it. I’ve moved the whole bunch of stuff after reading: > On Jul 5, 2015, at 7:53 PM, John Mardinly wrote: > > That thought occurred to me, but you would have to rip the pages out of > the book. There are 12 consecutive pages upside down with respect to > the rest of the book. Right you are, of course. I was thinking of an entirely different book. So never mind... > I have lots of "table music" scores, and they > have the two parts on the same page with just one part upside down; so that one player can read it while hanging from the chandelier > trios have one part sideways, etc. So that one player can read it while nailed to the wall. > My suspicion was that bookbinders are human and just goof occasionally. That’s certainly a plausible explanation. I haven’t dealt directly with bookbinders as such, so I can’t form an opinion about what species they belong to, but the book is a manuscript, and looking at the book itself (see above) it seems just as likely that the person who wrote those pages (who was not Jane Pickledherring) may have started from a blank page well on in the book (or at the end) and went in the opposite direction, as if the end of the manuscript was his/her beginning, in which case "upside down” is in the eye of the beholder. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Pickledherring Lute Book Upside-down pages
> On Jul 6, 2015, at 3:05 AM, Ron Andrico wrote: > > If you read the introduction and inventory, there is a helpful passage The same instructions are printed on the pages themselves, to prevent readers from playing the music standing on their heads. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dallis facsimile
> On Jul 15, 2015, at 3:02 PM, Christopher Stetson > wrote: > > cataloguer (my spell-check approves the spelling!) If you don’t spell it that way, it sounds like a bovine hotel guest. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Lutes and brains
> > On Aug 29, 2015, at 11:20 AM, Rainer wrote: > > I have no idea who Gordon Matthew Thomas Sumner is. Oddly enough, Sting said something similar. His 1985 documentary “Bring on the Night” has footage of a press conference in which some British press person prefaces a question by addressing him as “Gordon,” as if they were on a first-name basis. Sting replied along the lines of “Who is this Gordon person?” As the would-be questioner tried to point out that Gordon was, after all, his real name, Sting replied, “My wife calls me Sting. My children call me Sting." To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Lutes and brains
> On Aug 29, 2015, at 1:16 PM, David van Ooijen > wrote: > > James Joyce entertained the thought of playing the lute, of course, so > he should, it was the fashion of the time to entertain this thought, > but did not play the lute. And apparently didn’t play guitar terribly well either. >From Richard Ellman’s book on Joyce (titled, with diabolical cleverness, >“James Joyce”), writing of Joyce’s time in Zurich: "[Ottacaro Weiss, a student from Trieste] and Joyce, who lived fairly close to each other, began to attend operas and concerts together, and Weiss was able to Joyce into the Tonhalle with a student ticket. At home Joyce impressed Weiss with his fine, pleasant voice, but scandalized him by a totally unacceptable accompaniment, played at that time on a guitar, and later on an old upright piano badly out of tune." To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: What If A Day lyrics
> On Sep 10, 2015, at 5:43 AM, Rob MacKillop wrote: > > Thanks, all. I get the picture, and it's what I was thinking, but it > could be clearer! > Rob Of course it could be clearer; it’s poetry. "‘the earth is tiny in the heavens, and a man is tiny compared to the earth, so get over yourself’ is admirably clear and succinct, but good luck making a song out of it. Howard Posner (waiting to see how many listers upload “get over yourself” lute songs on Youtube) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: How a tennis match, a hat and a low doorway let to the Parisian chanson
The problem of French monarchs hitting their heads on low doorways was solved once and for all toward the end of Louis XVI’s reign. > On Sep 24, 2015, at 1:55 PM, David Tayler wrote: > > The game's ahead: how a tennis match led to the development of the > Parisian chanson. > When I was a child visiting Europe, I asked, "Why are the doorways so > small?" And I was told that people were smaller back then; true enough, > some were. But consider the untimely demise of Charles VIII of France. > In his haste to attend a tennis match, he hit his head on a door > lintel, and his large and colorful hat did not protect him This event > indirectly had an enormous effect on the arts, and particularly music, > as he was succeeded by Louis XII, who rebuilt the government, and the > Francis I, the great patron of the arts and host to Leonardo da Vinci. > His wife, Anne of Brittany, went on to support musicians and poets. And > so, a tennis match and a low doorway lead to the creation of the > Parisian chanson. > So the next time you play Tant que vivray, don't forget to duck! > Photo here: > [1]https://www.facebook.com/Voicesofmusic > > -- > > References > > 1. https://www.facebook.com/Voicesofmusic > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Dowland leads the way
> On Nov 7, 2015, at 4:53 AM, Ron Andrico wrote: > > We have posted our Saturday morning quotes, Dowland leads the way. > [1]http://wp.me/p15OyV-1 That particular link goes to Ron's 28 September 2010 post. The link at the bottom of your email goes to the one about the Big D. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lutes lasting under various conditions.
> On Nov 23, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Herbert Ward wrote: > > Suppose three identical lutes stored under different > conditions: > > an unheated barn, out of the rain and sun, but > exposed to humidity and temperature changes (no case) > > a typical modern home (no case) > > a museum display case built > to the state-of-the-art in wooden instrument > preservation The first lute would be eaten by goats. The second would be destroyed by toddlers. The third one would last a millennium but be no earthly use to anyone. Glad I could help. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Another lute picture?
How long would it have taken to paint that joke? > On Nov 24, 2015, at 10:53 AM, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote: > > That's my take. A 17th century blond joke. > RT > > On 11/24/2015 1:47 PM, Stuart Walsh wrote: >> Somebody with the intention and the skill and knowledge to create a fake >> 17th century Dutch master would surely have not included all the odd things >> that David points to. Could the painting be the equivalent of a sort of >> folly? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Tempo and pitch
> On Dec 5, 2015, at 12:39 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: > > The "thinking error" in my estimation lies in assuming that players ever > discussed their reference pitch at all. Instruments were tuned to where they > felt and sounded right or, in the case of accompanying instruments, where the > voices sounded best. Today, we have to discuss to death the quality of "A", > for the benefit of keyboardists and fixed0pitch instrumentalists, which is > utter nonsense and ahistorical. Because there were no keyboards or fixed-pitch instruments until 1959? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch
> On Dec 12, 2015, at 9:21 AM, Edward Martin wrote: > > I am wondering, has anybody on the list read some of the arguments > about changing the modern pitch standard as a + 432? A major push for 432 came from none other than convicted mail fraud conspirator and 8-time fringe presidential candidate Lyndon Larouche, who defined “weird” in American politics until Donald Trump redefined it. Here’s an excerpt from the Wikipedia page on Larouche; I can’t vouch for its accuracy in all things: > 1989: Musical interests and Verdi tuning initiative: > > LaRouche and his wife have an interest in classical music up to the period of > Brahms. A motto of LaRouche's European Workers' Party, is "Think like > Beethoven"; movement offices typically include a piano and posters of German > composers, and members are known for their choral singing at protest events > and for using satirical lyrics tailored to their targets.[152] LaRouche > abhors popular music; he said in 1980, "Rock was not an accidental thing. > This was done by people who set out in a deliberate way to subvert the United > States. It was done by British intelligence," and wrote that the Beatles were > "a product shaped according to British Psychological Warfare Division > specifications."[153] LaRouche movement members have protested at > performances of Richard Wagner's operas, denouncing Wagner as an anti-Semite > who found favor with the Nazis, and called a conductor "satanic" because he > played contemporary music.[154] > > In 1989 LaRouche advocated that classical orchestras should use a concert > pitch based on A above middle C (A4) tuned to 432 Hz, which the Schiller > Institute called the "Verdi pitch," a pitch that Verdi had suggested as > optimal, though he also composed and conducted in other pitches such as the > French official diapason normal of 435 Hz, including his Requiem in 1874.[155] > > The Schiller Institute initiative attracted support from more than 300 opera > stars, including Joan Sutherland, Plácido Domingo and Luciano Pavarotti, who > according to Opera Fanatic may or may not have been aware of LaRouche's > politics. A spokesman for Domingo said Domingo had simply signed a > questionnaire, had not been aware of its origins, and would not agree with > LaRouche's politics. Renata Tebaldi and Piero Cappuccilli, who were running > for the European Parliament on LaRouche's "Patriots for Italy" platform, > attended Schiller Institute conferences as featured speakers. The discussions > led to debates in the Italian parliament about reinstating Verdi's > legislation. LaRouche gave an interview to National Public Radio on the > initiative from prison. The initiative was opposed by the editor of Opera > Fanatic, Stefan Zucker, who objected to the establishment of a "pitch > police," and argued that LaRouche was using the issue to gain > credibility.[156] Here’s a 1989 story about it from the Washington Post, which goes into some of the arguments: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1989/05/27/lyndon-larouches-pitch-battle/756e0713-65eb-4059-90b2-037fd2f1f6e1/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch
> On Dec 12, 2015, at 12:51 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: > > Nevertheless, most lutenists play solo, Most amateur lutenists. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch
> On Dec 12, 2015, at 3:48 PM, Chris Barker wrote: > > Oh, good grief, Lyndon LaRouche! He was as crazy as a peach orchard squirrel! My Los Angeles neighborhood is notably lacking in peach orchards, so I can’t comment on the mental fitness of squirrels in them, but it’s premature to be referring to LaRouche in the past tense. He’s 93 and still alive, and would doubtless second the sentiments voiced by John Young as Dead Person in Monty Python and the Holy Grail: CART MASTER: Bring out your dead! [clang] Bring out your dead! CUSTOMER: Here's one. CART MASTER: Ninepence. DEAD PERSON: I'm not dead! CART MASTER: What? CUSTOMER: Nothing. Here's your ninepence. DEAD PERSON: I'm not dead! CART MASTER: 'Ere. He says he's not dead! CUSTOMER: Yes, he is. DEAD PERSON: I'm not! CART MASTER: He isn't? CUSTOMER: Well, he will be soon. He's very ill. DEAD PERSON: I'm getting better! CUSTOMER: No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment. Young died in 1996. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Wetting Fingers
Nigel also passes his right hand fingertips through his mouth just before he starts playing. At least he did years ago; I haven’t seen him in a while. > On Dec 23, 2015, at 7:32 PM, Dan Winheld wrote: > > I have played lutes of all kinds since 1966, (and guitar for 9 years prior) > and I must say I have NEVER heard of such practices! The only thing remotely > connected that comes to my mind is something Besard wrote (English > translation in the "Varietie...") about some students "anointing their > fingers with Oyle of Tartar..." but for increasing joint flexibility, nothing > to do with touch. Nigel North had been in the habit of stalking his students > with a fine emery board, grabbing their right hands smoothing out coarse > fingertips. He jumped me in this fashion once about 15 years ago at a SFEMS > or LSA seminar. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Performing lute in ensemble
> On Dec 27, 2015, at 4:45 PM, Ed Durbrow wrote: > > Also, I recall someone from one country being quite surprised how much louder > the lutes (or theorbos?) were in another country. Italian archlutes were as loud as French theorbos, according to Mersenne? or some other French person? This doesn’t shed a lot of light on Lauffensteiner. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Pitch
> On Jan 17, 2016, at 12:09 PM, Lute List wrote: > > American standard pitch for pianos was set at 440 in 1916 By whom, if you happen to know? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Pitch
On Jan 18, 2016, at 1:27 PM, William Brohinsky wrote: > Is there a reference for these dates/numbers, especially the claim that A440 > was 'set' in 1916 for American Standard Pitch for pianos? > > In 30 years of piano tuning, I've seen many claims, but I am unaware of an > American organization with the power to declare standard pitch for pianos > operating before the International Organization for Standards (the dyslexic > ISO) meetings in 1938 and 1939 (dates muddied by the generally poor accuracy > of Groves 2), and even then, ISO had to re-affirm A440 in 1959 and 1979, > apparently because a lot of organizations weren't willing to give up that > little bit of "brightness" that tuning a few Hertz higher brings. Reference pitch above A 440 is pretty common among professional orchestras. The Los Angeles Philharmonic tunes to 442. I think the Berlin Phil is higher. > Scheibler, credited with the invention of tuning forks, That would be John Shore (1662-1752), trumpeter extraordinaire (and lutenist ordinaire). Scheibler invented the tonometer, essentially an array of tuning forks, useful for determining the otherwise unknown pitch of some external sound (like, for example, Shore’s tuning fork) > recommended A440.0, and the Deutsche Naturforscherversammlung established > that as the German Standard in 1834. Steinway's pitchforks indicate that they > favored A454.7 in London and 457.2 in NY in 1897. > > The French government decreed that A435 was standard for that nation in 1859. > This was supposed to be a compromise between the extremes of A450, favored by > instrumentalists for brightness, and singers, who preferred A422. In England, > near the end of the 19th century, the London Royal Philharmonic Society > jiggered the numbers for a higher standard pitch, since France had specified > a specific build of oboe, playing A in a room at 59degF. They calculated that > a piano, tuned to that pitch, but operating at "normal" room temperature of > 68degF would rise to 438.9Hz, so when 1900 rolled around, A435 and A439 were > standards in France and England, respectively. The London Philharmonic played at around A458 for much of the 1800’s, and I don’t think it would have dropped all at once in 1900. This was about a half-tone sharper than French pitch. There’s an odd story Shaw related in 1891 about the problems the pitch difference caused, dating from when he was a “small boy” (i.e. before about 1869), which would mean it happened in Dublin. I don’t give much credit to the part about the woodwind players being willing to play a half-tone flat (though they could have transposed a half-tone, like a bassoonist I knew years ago who had the only remaining modern instrument in a group that was converting to period instruments at A415), or the part about the washer in the clarinet; Shaw was relying on a childhood memory, and he never played a wind instrument. You can find it at: https://books.google.com/books?id=Hnh0G2wrJvsC&pg=PA292&lpg=PA292&dq=%22george+bernard+shaw%22+pitch+Philharmonic&source=bl&ots=vlDQNTFJUF&sig=jRsbcpEh1vnVGzaC50N8lV-JF7w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjuufWPv7TKAhUQ0mMKHekJBKYQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=%22george%20bernard%20shaw%22%20pitch%20Philharmonic&f=false Or just type: “George Bernard Shaw” pitch Philharmonic into google and click on The Clarinet - Page 292 - Google Books Result which should be at the top of the results > Generally speaking, I've found that pianos built before 1940 tend to > gravitate to A438 even when tuned above or below that pitch, and have read > numerous articles intended for piano tuners (none of which I still have) > claiming that before the ISO proclamation, A438 was the preferred pitch for > American piano makers. Whether that is true or not, I can't find any official > organization which selected A440 before the ISO meetings of 1938 and/or 1939. > > So ... Who set A440 as standard for American Pianos in 1916? Probably nobody. If you’re going to standardize pitch, you need to start with the instruments that are least flexible. A piano can be tuned to any pitch within reason but a fairly small upward or downward variation will cause all but the best woodwind players to play out of tune. And of course, glockenspiel, celesta, xylophone et al can’t change pitch at all. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: looking for Baroque music for treble recorder with continuo for 8-course Renaissance lute
> On Jan 21, 2016, at 2:32 PM, jsl...@verizon.net wrote: > > Finally, the very term "baroque" was coined to describe extravagant or > even bizarre ornamentation. The divisions of Bassano and his > contemporaries can be viewed as examples of this style. "Baroque" is a n art historians’ term To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: looking for Baroque music for treble recorder with continuo for 8-course Renaissance lute
> On Jan 21, 2016, at 9:16 PM, howard posner wrote: > > "Baroque" is a n art historians’ term I decided to abort that message, but hit send instead of delete. I was going to [not] point out that "baroque music” means no more than “music written during the period that art historians, for reasons that have nothing to do with music, have named “baroque.” I suppose you can find the occasional “distorted” or “bizarre” music from this time, but it’s not the most useful way of thinking of music written between about 1600 and about 1750 (nor do I think Jim meant to say it was, which is why I reached for the delete button in the first place); and would be misleading in most cases. Carry on. Don’t mind me. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Early Music Bracket
> On Feb 17, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Christopher Wilke > wrote: > > Weiss is currently in 1st place! That’s because 18th-century composers are a bunch of loosuhs. --The Donald To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Early Music Bracket
> On Feb 18, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Ron Andrico wrote: > > I always suspected you had uncomfortably close ties with that bunch Trumps come in bunches? > but didn't know you had direct line to The Donald itself. Sad thing is that > this time he's right. About 18th-century composers? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - Dante
> On Feb 20, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Ron Andrico wrote: > > Liberal, from the Latin liberalis, means ample, free or generous. That may be true, but “liberal education,” "liberal arts,” or “liberal studies” has/had a different, and more specific, meaning: “those studies which are the proper pursuit of a free man,” and consisted of the sciences of the quadrivium — music, mathematics, geometry and astronomy (or astrology; there wasn’t always much difference): and the three studies of the trivium — grammar, logic and rhetoric. These days it has come to mean "A major you pick in college when you don't know what to do with yourself." To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] La Mantovana tablature?
Can anyone direct me to a source for a historical intabulation of La Mantovana/Fuggi Fuggi? I’m aware of the two settings on Roman’s page. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: gluing body fret
> On Jun 8, 2016, at 9:20 AM, Guy Smith wrote: > > One luthier (Andy Rutherford maybe) told me that plain Knox gelatin is a > passable hide glue. I used it repair a ukulele maybe twenty years ago. The bond holds to this day, which means it survived the instrument’s career as a toy for two young boys. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: gluing body fret
> On Jun 8, 2016, at 12:54 PM, Dan Winheld wrote: > > And is it still good for guitarist's fingernails? I’m just grateful that the question is no longer relevant to my life. I had a packet-a-day gelatin habit because of my nails when I was in college, but years of therapy healed me and made me the man I am today—the one who walks up to classical guitarists, ostentatiously takes out his nail clipper, and trims his right-hand nails. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: gluing body fret
> On Jun 10, 2016, at 11:07 AM, John Mardinly wrote: > > That sounds like something > Donald Trump or Rodrigo Duterte would do. Of course. Where do you think I got the idea in the first place? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Arabella Hunt 1662-1705
> On Jun 10, 2016, at 1:02 PM, theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:
>
> I have recently become fascinated by the life of singer/lutenist
> Arabella Hunt, 1662-1705.
Fascinating indeed. BTW, I’ve seen her birth date given as 1645 or 1650 in
some places. 1662 is the most common one.
>
> Dose anyone know of the music written for her? From the engraving of
> her, it appears she played an 11c lute. trj
Here’s start: a web search found this in the program notes by Susan Youens for
a concert at Carnegie Hall by Emma Kirkby and Jakob Lindberg:
"We end with another of John Blow's cantatas, this one a "Lesbian Lay" of the
sort fashionable in the 1690s. "O Venus, daughter of the mighty Jove" ("Sappho
to the Goddess of Love") was composed for the virtuoso soprano Arabella Hunt in
the royal circle around Queen Mary and Princess Anne."
Blow included “On the Excellency of Mrs. Hunt’s voice and manner of Singing” in
Amphion Anglicus, but I can’t imagine she would ever have sung it.
Re Purcell: Hunt is not among the singers mentioned in Orpheus Britannicus, and
one essay you can find (and read the first page of) on JStor says there are no
known Purcell songs about her.
Given the story John Hawkins tells, I would assume that the 1692 birthday ode
“May her blest example chase” (the one that uses “Cold and Raw” as a ground
bass) was written to be sung by her, which would have really brought the joke
home. (Bruce Wood, in the essay “Purcell’s Odes: a Reappraisal” published in
The Purcell Companion, says it was written for a countertenor, and is known as
a soprano solo only because of an error in the Purcell Society edition, but I
have no idea why he thinks that: the footnote to that sentence is just a
reference to another footnote that doesn’t deal with the subject.)
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[LUTE] Re: Arabella Hunt 1662-1705
I meant to say “for her.” > On Jun 10, 2016, at 2:46 PM, howard posner wrote: > > Re Purcell: Hunt is not among the singers mentioned in Orpheus Britannicus, > and one essay you can find (and read the first page of) on JStor says there > are no known Purcell songs about her. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Saturday morning quotes - The anti-lute
> On Jul 16, 2016, at 7:50 AM, Ron Andrico wrote: > > The combination actually works. Why wouldn’t it? It’s not the first time a lute and small reed organ have played together. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Hm
> On Jul 20, 2016, at 11:36 AM, Rainer wrote: > > Arion on a Dolphin playing Lachrimae, I’ve heard about Arion riding the dolphin many times, but this is the first time I’ve heard that the dolphin was playing Lachrimae; it strikes me as a difficult feat to accomplish with flippers. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: private
> On Aug 3, 2016, at 10:33 PM, Anton Höger wrote: > > If someone sends me a private email then I sent back privately to him! But > this specially E-Mail this accusation relates to my work on the whole Lute > community. > Therefore I sent it to the lute group! > I must not publish my Intabulations! > So think its better to stop my work. Because of a remark by one person? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: doctoral thesis on Kapsberger
> On Aug 14, 2016, at 12:12 PM, G. C. wrote: > > almost 20 > years after Rolf Lislevand made us aware of this exceptional musician > in 1993 ?? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: doctoral thesis on Kapsberger
> On Aug 14, 2016, at 4:02 PM, G. C. wrote: > > Well, me at least :) And better late than never :) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Cayphas?
> > On Aug 29, 2016, at 8:00 AM, Tomoko Koide > wrote: > > Could anyone help me identifying who "Cayphas" is? If you’re encountering him in a Christian text about the crucifixion of Jesus, he’s the High Priest. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?
> On Sep 16, 2016, at 11:21 PM, David van Ooijen > wrote: > > On Friday, 16 September 2016, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >>> , mainly via signature riffs (such as >the Lachrimae motif) and cadential events<< > >Although I certainly 'feel' Dowland's signature in many of the solos > ascribed to him, I think the falling tears motif is not a good example > as it was a stock phrase in the word painting language of the Italian > madrigal (and much older, I believe, but no quotes or sources, sorry), > whose most direct influence on Dowland can be found in the madrigals > by Marenzio, much admired by Dowland. And the cadential doodles are > typical of all English Renaissance music for lute. Ron himself has brought up the Marenzio connection on his page: https://mignarda.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/dowland-marenzio-and-lachrimae/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: composed for the lute?
> On Sep 16, 2016, at 11:46 PM, David van Ooijen > wrote: > > Well, there you go then. But maybe Ron doesn't read his own pages. It’s easy to forget. Just today, in writing program notes for a concert of Beethoven’s last piano sonata, violin sonata and string quartet, I remembered that B. had remarked some time after the ninth symphony, perhaps five years before he died that he was just then learning how to compose. I wanted to confirm that he made that remark. My web search for “just learning to compose” took me straight to an essay about a B. quartet on the Los Angeles Philharmonic website, written by — you guessed it — me. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Pad on back of pegbox.
> On Sep 21, 2016, at 3:38 PM, RCP wrote: > > A bit of bees wax might help, and be nondestructive? Not from the bees’ point of view. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Pad on back of pegbox.
> On Sep 21, 2016, at 5:25 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: > > That's the first thing I've read all day that made me smile. Thanks, Howard. You’re welcome, but you’re leaving yourself open to charges of insensitivity to apian rights. “Bee the change you want to see in the world." To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New blog tackles a major piece
> On Sep 28, 2016, at 9:16 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote: > > You can find the fruits of some recent research And some things that have been discussed for a generation or so. Paul O’Dette covered many of these points in a presentation at an LSA seminar; I don’t remember when, but the last LSA Seminar I attended was 1999. How time flies... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New blog tackles a major piece
> On Sep 29, 2016, at 2:43 AM, Ed Durbrow wrote: > > A very famous guitarist tried to convince me that the famous Canarios by Sanz > was supposed to have odd time signatures because of missing dots. But Clapton had a lot of strange ideas. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
> On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi wrote: > > The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C, and not. in D. > It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange for the violins. Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A. I believe Giardino Armonico plays at A 415. I’m guessing the pitch is lowered on the Youtube video we’re talking about. This is commonly done to avoid detection by copyright bots. Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same concerto, sounding in D at A 415: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kJwhbZcAM Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up on this one. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
> On Oct 10, 2016, at 7:51 AM, Ron Andrico wrote: > > As far as I can tell, single stringing was sometimes used by the old > ones I’ve always assumed that someone in the 1600’s and 1700’s must have single-strung their lutes for the same reasons some modern players do, but I was unaware of any actual evidence for the practice. Do you know of any? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
> On Oct 11, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: > > HIP is not > necessarily a hard and fast objective measure because whenever the term > is mentioned, you must ask the question, "...according to whom?" > > Speedy O'Dette's use of a mandolino is a serious stretch of > imagination. When O’Dette (whose first name is Paul, by the way) made the recording, much of the lute world believed that the lute part should sound at violin pitch, requiring a small instrument. It was the latest in HIP. Paul actually concluded that the violin-pitch theory was wrong not long after the recording came out. > Luca's performance incorporated transposition well, no. > and a single-strung archlute but I can tell you without hesitation that > historical theorbos were NOT single-strung either. Someone should have told Praetorius. And Joseph Langenwalder, who made the single-strung theorbo in the Vienna Kunsthistorisches Museum. And Pietro Railich, who made the single-strung theorbos in the Brussels Musee Instrumental and the Rome Museo degli Strumenti Musicale. He also made the double-strung theorbo in the Hessisches Landesmuseum. And the 4 anonymous makers of the single-strung theorbos in the Musei e Gallerie di Milano, Stockholm Musikhistoriska Museet, Oberosterreichisches Landesmuseum and the Burg Seebenstein collection. And Mattheus Buchenberg (Lisbon Museu da Musica, and Brussels Musee Instrumental), Matthias Alban and Magnus Steger (Uneo Gakuen Collection in Tokyo), and Wendelio Venere (Musee de la Musique, Paris) and a few others. There are at least a dozen surviving single-strung theorbos. Given the small size of the theorbo fossil record, that number indicates that single-strung theorbos were common, particularly since players could single-string instruments that had pegs for double stringing. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
If thumb out bothers you, you’ve been asleep the last 30 years. > On Oct 12, 2016, at 9:26 AM, John Mardinly wrote: > > Thumb out, nails, nylon strings, metal wound basses, metal frets, bone > saddle in bridge (Rubio lute), big sound, very hip. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto
I could not have said it better. On Oct 12, 2016, at 3:58 AM, Ralf Mattes wrote: Doesn't it seem a little ironic that those who champion a technique that's 400 years old are calling Segovia's technique "old fashioned". Gary No. Unless you miss the subtle difference between "old" and "old fashioned". To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Star of David
The “Star of David” — more accurately, “Shield of David” (Magen David) was not generally known as the Star of David, or as a Jewish symbol, until relatively recently. It was widely used as an alchemical symbol and rather a lot of other things. It wasn’t until the 19th century that it became firmly associated not so much with Judaism as such, but with the Zionist movement. There was considerable debate about whether to put it on the Israeli flag. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/star.html http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/aboutisrael/israelat50/pages/the%20flag%20and%20the%20emblem.aspx To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain
> On Jan 8, 2017, at 12:11 PM, Rob MacKillop wrote: > > Excellent. I'd appreciate a good translation of the French... Google Translate renders "le son des grosses chordes de Luth est apperceu de Toreille durant la sixiesme partie, ou le tiers d'vne minutec'est à dire pendant que Tartere du poux d'un homme sain” as "The sound of the large strings of Luth is seen from the ear during the sixth part, or the third of a minute is to be said while the tartar of the lice of a healthy man” I don’t know you can improve on that. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain
> On Jan 8, 2017, at 12:55 PM, Rob MacKillop wrote: > > So what are we to make of this? The movement in the last decade has been to > minimise the sustain as long as possible. I'm completely on board with this. > But if we are to take Mersenne at face value, we have been moving in the > wrong direction - we should be at least doubling the sustain time. Could it be that you and Mersenne are talking about different things? You wrote about “useable sustain,” which I take to mean “how long the note is musically significant or can interfere with new notes,” or something similar. Mersenne sounds more like he’s reporting results of an experiment like the one I just did: pluck the string in a quiet room and time how long you can hear it at all, which yields a very different number. Indeed, my total sustain time just now was more than double what I would call “useable sustain.” Mersenne was primarily a scientist/mathematician (do a web search on him and you’ll turn up all sorts of things about prime numbers), so we need to be alert to the possibility that he’s giving us scientific data rather than practical musical information. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Aquila Loaded Nylgut sustain
> On Jan 8, 2017, at 2:36 PM, Rob MacKillop wrote: > > Good point, Howard. But still, twenty seconds is a long time. I am > certainly only interested in the time before clashing with the next > note or notes takes place, and that of course depends on the passage of > music. But generally speaking, even if we halve Mersenne's twenty > seconds, that is still much longer than even the Savarez string. And what do we make of Mersenne’s range of ten to twenty seconds/heartbeats? What’s he actually telling us? Some strings ten, others twenty? Useable sustain ten, total duration twenty? Results for one string were inconsistent? Depends on your heart rate? I’m sure we can up with a bunch of plausible interpretations, but in the end the information seems too uncertain to base any solid conclusion on it. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] About that tree falling in the forest....
> On Jan 9, 2017, at 12:47 PM, John Mardinly wrote: > > sound and vibration are one and the same. If the string can > be seen to be vibrating and you can't hear it, it is either a problem > with your hearing (which to be sure comes naturally with our advancing > age), or there is sufficient ambient noise in the room or other notes > being played that the sound is overwhelmed. You can be sure, that if > the string is vibrating, there IS sound, whether your ears/brain sense > it or not. And there, in a nutshell, is the difference between physics and music. The world is full of things that vibrate inaudibly to human ears. It is scientifically correct, but musically irrelevant, to say they create sound. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners
> On Feb 11, 2017, at 4:32 PM, Some guy named "LSA Lute Rental Program” wrote: > > Then, after the dust settles, we discover we are pretty much evenly > split for and against You’re not accounting for the many, many, fraudulent votes. > and the issue dies down only to rise again in 12 > months. > For those who do not wish to use planetary tuners, the most notable > example of which is PegHedz, their best approach is not to use them. > For those, like me, who have used them and like them very much indeed, > the best approach is to keep using them. I have 42 instruments in the > LSA's lute rental collection and if I had the money to do so I would > install PegHedz on every single one. The LSA neither supports nor > does not support the use of any particular tuner, including friction > pegs or planetary tuners such as PegHedz. I am only telling you that > I think they are such a valuable resource that I would put them on all > the lutes if it could be afforded. It can't so I won't. But if I > did it would forever eliminate the problem that aging lutes have of > pegs that become out of round and needing replacing or retooling. It > would also make tuning much easier for beginners--but that is just my > opinion. Have these things been around long enough that we can talk about their durability? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: planetary tuners
I asked: > Have these things been around long enough that we can talk about their > durability? Ed Martin answered: > I have had them for 4 years, no breakdown thus far. So is that yes, no, or maybe? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: "Intavolatura de viola overo lauto" Naples, 1536
> On Feb 22, 2017, at 5:52 PM, Dan Winheld wrote: > > Can anyone direct me to any modern reprints? (any tab. or pitch trans.) I’m not sure whether you mean to exclude facsimiles when you say “modern reprints,” but I’ll mention the 1988 Minkoff facsimile anyway. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: basses in octaves
> On Feb 28, 2017, at 8:13 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: > > Sorry, but I simply can't accept the idea that the old ones couldn't > tell whether or not they were in tune. I understood the earlier post to mean that they could tell, but lived with it, rather as we accept that 15 first violins will sometimes be shriekishly out of tune in high passages, and take comfort in knowing they won’t stay up there longuy. I’m not buying that either. Back in the earlier geological era that was my young adulthood, in the days before the Web and widespread cable television, I happened to catch a guest by appearance by Isaac Stern, a great violinist (famous enough to be on a network TV show) but historically uninformed (in both of those things, he was the Itzhak Perlman of the day), on a show hosted by Merv Griffin or Dick Cavett (who were both very famous and fairly bright). The host, in full-on interview mode, said something like, “I understand you can do something that Paganini could do: play in tune when your violin is out of tune." Stern answered simply, “They didn’t play in tune in those days.” Now you know why Beethoven went deaf. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: basses in octaves
> On Mar 1, 2017, at 12:12 PM, Bruno Cognyl-Fournier > wrote: > > 3. part of the problem may also be due to the enormous amount of > stretch between peg and nut, so I will try a gut leader to reduce > that... Gut is not what you want for this purpose, because it stretches. You want something more like rope. If there’s a fishing supply store near you, look at the leader lines they have. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: No problems on my lute! Was: basses in octaves
> On Mar 1, 2017, at 7:33 AM, Rob MacKillop wrote: > > Very good video, Arto! I didn’t much care for the piece he played. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Continuo: Score vs Part; also Page-Turners
It’s always nice to have the score, or the melodic line, in the continuo part. I’ve done a lot of cutting and pasting to avoid inconvenient page turns. > On Mar 15, 2017, at 6:25 AM, Edward Chrysogonus Yong > wrote: > > Dear Lutenetters who play basso continuo, > Is there a preference either way for playing from bass part or full > score, assuming both have the same figures? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Info about a couple of songs
Can someone plug the leaks in my memory about two songs? 1. What’s the song that ends “Better to be drunk - dead drunk - than dead”? 2. What’s the printed source for the Robert King song “Tune your lute and raise your voice”? And are either of them on the web in some form? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Info about a couple of songs
Many thanks for the responses. > On Mar 23, 2017, at 11:13 AM, William Brohinsky wrote: > > ..."Singing Odes of With and Mirth;" is, of course, > "Singing Odes of Wit and Mirth;". > My apologies. > Ray B No need to apologize. Ith was such an obvious thypo thath ith wasn’th going to lead me asthray. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Loose bars?
> On Apr 13, 2017, at 6:44 PM, sterling price > wrote: > > Hi all- I started having some buzzing on my 13 course powered lute. Powered lute? > I'm not sure if it is a loose bar or some weird resonance. The buzzing only > happens on certain courses and I can't isolate where it's coming from. Has > anyone some advice for me? If you press gently down all around the top and feel sponginess or crunching somewhere, it’s likely a loose bar. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Loose bars?
> On Apr 13, 2017, at 9:43 PM, sterling price wrote: > > Thanks-- by the way i was referring to "course power". ;)) We all believe in Course Power. Courses have been second-class citizens too long. Courses of the world unite! BtW, you don’t say how many courses are involved in the buzzing, but have you tried replacing them? Strings sometimes do strange things, particularly if they’re wound and have been around for a while. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dowland's 100th Psalm
> On Apr 22, 2017, at 3:37 PM, Chris Barker wrote: > > I have > read that John Dowland was a Roman Catholic. He was. > I also read that he was from > time to time lutenist to Queen Elizabeth I of England. He was not. > Queen Elizabeth, in > dealing with Protestant/Catholic conflicts, liked to play both ends against > the middle, kept some of each at court. She also liked to have one or the > other drawn and quartered, burned at the stake, etc. when it seemed > politically "correct" (in her view anyway). Well, mostly she liked to draw and quarter lute players. It wasn’t just a personal quirk. Lute players were so unpopular in her time that drawing and quartering them was a spectator sport, with announcers making lots of tasteless jokes about gut strings. Selling tickets to "Monday Night Luter Drawing & Quartering” was a major source of revenue to the crown, second only to the fees for the TV rights. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Cumb=C3=A9es?=
> On May 27, 2017, at 6:37 AM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: > > there were a lot of Africans in Spain during > the 16th and 18th centuries. North African is just a short distance > across the Mediterranean from Spain. Tangier is, but it’s 3,300 kilometers from Gibraltar to Dakar and 4,500 kilometers to Sierra Leone. Is the cumbee a Moorish dance? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Cumb=C3=A9es?=
Wow. You just used the word “quiet” to describe Trump. > On May 28, 2017, at 12:26 PM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: > I don't think even he could achieve that - and I don't think he > would get Africa to pay for it either. He seems to have gone a bit > quiet on that one To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Cumb=C3=A9es?=
> On May 28, 2017, at 12:59 PM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: > > when I reply to messages it doesn't > distinguish my reply from what has gone before. Can anyone tell me what > I am doing wrong. I can’t, but you might want to experiment with the quote level control, if your email program’s Format menu has one. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: guitar
> On Jul 21, 2017, at 2:07 PM, cyndi...@netscape.net wrote: > > Amazing surgery! Anyone who cares at all about the long and venerable tradition of Indie To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: A440?
> On Aug 7, 2017, at 5:47 PM, Gary Boye wrote: > > Lute List members, Help! > I've been asked to play on some Lully excerpts from Le Bourgeois > Gentilhomme in early October. I have a theorbo, lute, Baroque guitar . > . . no problem. But the conductor wants to do it A440. All of my > instruments are strung for A430 (and one A415). > My initial response is to say no, but I want to encourage some early > music performance here, so my only options would appear to be: > 1) Re-string an instrument for A440 ($$$!) > 2) Try some type of capo (OK for guitar, less so on theorbo) > 3) Try to finger it at F#m or Fm and stay tuned low > 4) Tune high and risk it (!) Unless your instrument is really cranked at 430, tuning it up to 440 shouldn’t be much of a risk. I’d say the chance of it exploding, killing you and everyone within ten feet of you, is less than 50%. I’d think the only reason to have a lute-family instrument at 430 is to facilitate playing at both 415 and 440 without a major change in tension. If you have a theorbo in A at 415, try tuning it down and playing it as an instrument in G. > 5) Try to convince them to play at A430 (seems doubtful) Indeed, impossible, if there are woodwind instruments. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Zarlino, Giuseppe - Quatre livres ou parties des Institutions harmoniques
> On Aug 8, 2017, at 2:37 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: > > As far > as I can tell, all of these popular misconceptions were created by > 20th-century academics in an attempt to cram random information into > easily teachable categories. Fake musicology!? Sad. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Shortest historical theorbo string length?
There’s a database of instruments at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~lsa/associated/database/dbsearch.php
I compiled a download of theorbos/archlutes from it when I was doing some
cursory research into a question similar to yours. AI’m sending it to you
separately.
The problem with your question is that to answer it you have to make
assumptions about precisely the instruments you should not be making
assumptions about. Suppose you find an instrument with six double-strung 74 cm
courses on the fingerboard and eight 150 cm courses on the extension. Is it a
theorbo in D, a small theorbo in A built to play at A 466 or higher, or a
archlute built to play at A 370? Historical instruments don’t come with
instruction manuals.
You might search the list archives for “Theorbo in G?” and (dare I say it?),
“toy theorbo” to some views, not all of them helpful, that have been expressed
on theorbo sizes.
> On Aug 20, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Luca Manassero wrote:
>
> Dear collective wisdom,
>
> I'm doing some research concerning the historical theorbo (fretted)
> string lengths in museum or private collections: I'd be really grateful
> to anybody letting me know about historical theorbos with "short" string
> length. Of course a reference to a collection or at least to a an
> historical lutemaker would be important, thank you.
>
> I'd be also curious to know from our luthier friends what is the
> shortest historical theorbo they ever had the chance to see and/or
> measure.
>
> I'm of course referring to theorbos in G or A, knowing that there aren't
> surviving French theorbos ("théorbe des pièces") in D.
>
> Thank you in advance for your kind help,
>
> Luca
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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Shorter emails
As always, I agree with Martyn. > On Sep 6, 2017, at 12:10 AM, Martyn Hodgson > wrote: > > The advantage of including all (or most) emails in a thread is that if > one wishes to be reminded of previous matters discussed in the thread, > it easy to simply scroll down - otherwise the laborious business of > trawling through previous emails on the topic is necessary > And if the latest is always put at the top of a thread the reader can > always choose not to read on. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Shorter emails
And while we’re on protocol, if you hit “reply all” and then eliminate all the addresses other than the list’s, the other listers don’t get your message more than once. > On Sep 6, 2017, at 12:44 AM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: > > > I agree with Martyn too. We have had this discussion about protocol so > many times before and no one will agree. > It is much better if people put their reply at the top whatever may > have been de riguer in the past. In every way this makes more sense - > and is especially helpful in the archived messages. > And pace Ralf it would be better if people didn't try to put in > diacritical marks if this renders their messages gobbleggook. > You have to be practical about these things. We are trying to > communicate with one another. > Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Shorter emails
> On Sep 6, 2017, at 3:07 AM, Ralf Mattes wrote: > > > Am Mittwoch, 06. September 2017 11:43 CEST, howard posner > schrieb: > >> And while we’re on protocol, if you hit “reply all” and then eliminate all >> the addresses other than the list’s, the other listers don’t get your >> message more than once. > > That problem is easy to solve: the list admin would have to configure the > list to only send out the > list mail address in the reply-to header. Not only would this prevent double > mails, it would also > hide the original sender's mail address which, in times of spam harvesters, > some might find good > to do. It’s also easy to solve without the list administrator doing anything. It took me about a second to eliminate your name from the “To” list just now. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] "Sting Effect" (was Direwolf Hall)
> On Sep 7, 2017, at 1:40 PM, John Mardinly wrote: > > So is there any chance that this will result in archlute themed backpacks, > pencil cases, blankets, pillows or other Disney themed merchandise? It’s been 11 years (!) since Sting tackled (as it were) Dowland in Songs from the Labyrinth. Some of us were speculating about a potential “Sting effect” raising the lute’s profile in the world. Did anyone notice one? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: "Sting Effect" (was Direwolf Hall)
> On Sep 7, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: > > I have noticed an increase in the profile of lute music > generally and Dowland's music in particular since Sting released his > recording. Of course, we run in different circles than most cloistered > lute fanciers, since we perform and not exclusively to early music > audiences. > > When Sting's CD was more current and visible (audible?), there was > quite a bit of chatter out in the music world about his Dowland > effort. We observed that his stalwart fans mostly thought the lute > diversion was tiresome, and early music nerds thought Sting was > tiresome. > > Personally, I thought Sting did the lute world a great service in > raising the profile of the instrument and the music, however briefly. I’m not sure if you’re describing a continuing profile increase (in which I’m curious what specifically you’ve observed) or a brief “Sting Blip”. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Barbella's little cross
> On Sep 26, 2017, at 12:57 PM, Stewart McCoy wrote: > > The cross cannot > mean a sharp ( # ), because there are plenty of those elsewhere in the > piece. Please can anyone explain what the little cross means? It could mean the printer ran out of #’s in his font. An x sometimes means an augmented interval, but you seem to be describing an x without a number attached. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Reply All
> On Oct 7, 2017, at 4:06 AM, G. C. wrote: > > The reason you get double mails lies in Gmail. If I answer your mail to > lute, by clicking on the reply button, gmail sends the mail to you only > and NOT to the list. You have to click reply to all and then delete the > other Cc's in the mail to send it to the list only This is true of any email program or system. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Matanya Ophee
> On Nov 9, 2017, at 7:48 AM, Alain Veylit wrote: > > Sad news. He kept the list alive You mean lively? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music
> On Nov 10, 2017, at 10:50 AM, G. C. wrote: > > According to Dan Brown in his newest book, "Origins", Beethoven was the > inventor of "bone conduction technology", who upon going deaf, > discovered that he could fix a metal rod to his piano, and bite down on > it as he played, enabling him to hear perfectly, through vibrations in > his jaw bone. Take this with a grain of salt, especially when you see things like this one on the Time Magazine website: Interest in Beethoven’s hearing loss has long captivated his fans, many of whom are fascinated by the tragic circumstances of a deaf composer and the ways Beethoven managed to keep working even after he completely lost his hearing by the time he was 45. As TIME once described it, “by clenching a stick in his teeth, holding it against the keyboard of his piano, he could discern faint sounds.” I’ve never seen any reference to any evidence for anything like this. Has anyone else? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music
> On Nov 8, 2017, at 4:54 PM, Alain Veylit wrote: > > PS: bad French joke: Beethoven was so deaf that all his life he thought he > was a painter... Is this a pun in French? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music
I was being unclear. I also recall Mace chomping his lute, but I was asking about Beethoven specifically. I haven’t seen a source for these 20th/21st century descriptions of his using bone conduction. The very contrary account of Beethoven banging on an out-of-tune piano and howling as he composed the Missa Solemnis is from Schindler, who knew Beethoven but was every bit as much as much of a fiction writer as Dan Brown. > On Nov 10, 2017, at 7:01 PM, jeff wrote: > > Check out Mace. As I recall, in his later years, he “heard” his lute by > touching his teeth to the edge of the soundboard or edge of the bowl where it > meets the soundboard. Late in the book, I think, and part of his > complaints/observations about aging. > > Been a long time since I’ve looked at it, so I could be making this up. But I > think not… > > See ya, > > jeff > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: howard posner > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 6:29 PM > To: Lutelist > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bad lute music > > >> On Nov 10, 2017, at 10:50 AM, G. C. wrote: >> >> According to Dan Brown in his newest book, "Origins", Beethoven was the >> inventor of "bone conduction technology", who upon going deaf, >> discovered that he could fix a metal rod to his piano, and bite down on >> it as he played, enabling him to hear perfectly, through vibrations in >> his jaw bone. > > Take this with a grain of salt, especially when you see things like this one > on the Time Magazine website: > > Interest in Beethoven’s hearing loss has long captivated his fans, > many of whom are fascinated by the tragic circumstances of a deaf > composer and the ways Beethoven managed to keep working even > after he completely lost his hearing by the time he was 45. As TIME > once described it, “by clenching a stick in his teeth, holding it against > the keyboard of his piano, he could discern faint sounds.” > > I’ve never seen any reference to any evidence for anything like this. Has > anyone else? > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > --
[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music
> On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:41 AM, Christopher Wilke > wrote: > > Just curious - How do we know the exact cause of Beethoven's deafness > today? We don't > I assume doctors of the time didn't possess enough knowledge of > the causes of deafness to make a diagnosis. Nobody did, but there is some raw data in the form of observations by the doctor who did an autopsy (this is from the web, and I don’t know who translated it into English): "The external ear was large and irregularly formed, the scaphold fossa but more especially the concha was very spacious and half as large again as usual…the external auditory canal was covered with shining scales… The Eustachian tube was much thickened, its mucous lining swollen and somewhat contratced about the osseous portion of the tube… The facial nerves were of unusual thickness, the auditory nerves, on the contrary, were shiveled and destitute… The convolutions of the brain were full of water and remarkably white; they appeared very much deeper, wider and more numerous than ordinary." To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
