[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
Daniel Shoskes wrote: with Edin Karamazov sitting on lute and archlute. Is that why there are lots of nasty noises? Couldn't resist... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
Dear Daniel and All, I think most people would agree with Bob Spencer's (1976!) article that there are two things called archlute. One is the Italian solo lute of the 17th century, typically 58/85cm with 14 courses (*all* double, according to surviving examples). The other is the continuo instrument, a converted lute with a theorbo neck and typically 67/140cm with 6 double strings on the fingerboard and 8 single basses. To me these are not interchangeable. The sound of the long single basses on the continuo lute is quite different from the shorter octaved basses on the little liuto attiorbato, and this is a serious problem when the bass and treble are widely separated and a hole appears in the middle of the music, a hole which is filled by the upper octaves of the basses on the small lute. I know Paul used to play a little lute with single basses but I don't know what the historical precedent for it is. The instruments made in Venice in the 1630s and 40s by Matteo Sellas and his workshop seem to me to epitomise this kind of lute and as far as I know they were all double strung throughout (and no overspun basses, of course). Best wishes, Martin Daniel Shoskes wrote: I am currently having an archlute built for me and at the LSA I asked Paul O'Dette for any advice on specifications, since he has an archlute by the same builder. Interestingly, POD suggested single stinging as an option. Now I don't know whether that recommendation was because of my personal circumstances (amateur player, won't travel with it so size not a big concern, used mostly for continuo and not solo (unless Sting asks me!)) or whether he considered this a reasonable option for anyone. In the end I opted for the more conventional 1x1, 2x5, 1x8 approach. DS To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
Could you mail me the profile you refer to? Who decided what the early music profile is? Were the lutenists of the 16th century trying to reproduce the music of the 13th? I don't think so. It seems to me they were using and modifying the instruments of the 13th century (lutes) to create something new. I'm sure there were people all along the way lamenting these developments and the loss of the 13th century profile. It seems to me every musician decides for himself/herself how much of what is known of early music performance practice to apply to the performance of this music in the 21st century. I do not wear period clothes when I perform. Am I violating the profile? I use an electronic tuner (sometimes). Am I violating the profile? I sometimes use a mic, etc., etc. I am not trying to bring the 16th or 17th century into the 21st. I think this music is timeless and has as much relevance to the 21st century as it had to the 16th. And that's what Sting's efforts prove. Sting, a thoroughly 21st century man, fell in love with the music of John Dowland and risked ridicule and rejection from his audience to express that love. That's how powerful and wonderful this music is. For me the music the thing not the historical period in which it arose. All the Best, Gary - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 3:32 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! In einer eMail vom 26.09.2006 12:09:41 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Early muisic movement? Is there a manifesto? Play it as you hear and feel and make it your own. I think you have proved my point that the early music movement has lost it's profile. best wishes Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/457 - Release Date: 9/26/2006
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
Here is some more press stuff from the promotion tour for his Dowland Album. he is realy going for the whole sting saves the universe thing.. It will be a rough ride. Hold onto your wig. RT Sorry to dissapoint but I don't wear a wig, that would be more the archlute period :) best wishes Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
BRAVO, Stewart !!! Just the perfect words... Thanks, Ariel. Dear Rick and Paul, Thank you for your common-sense contributions. The Sting thread has aroused many passions. I am inclined to think that many of the contributions have been sent in by a load of fuddy-duddies. I am reminded of my old school chaplain, who disliked the Beatles, and seemed to resent their popularity. When I told him that I liked their music, he was aghast. What sort of voices do they have? Are they tenors? he asked scathingly. It was the wrong question. They weren't tenors. To be a tenor, meant singing classical music with a trained voice. The Beatles did something else, and it was a mistake on the chaplain's part to try to judge them by inappropriate criteria. So it is with many of the critical comments levelled against Sting. If we expect him to sound like Emma Kirkby, we shall be disappointed. He sings Dowland his own way. His performance of Can she excuse my wrongs has excitement and passion. The out-of-tune notes may grate on our refined ears, but at least they are sung with committment. It is an angry, passionate song, supposedly about the Earl of Essex' unrequited love for Queen Elizabeth. How many times have I heard it sung beautifully by an angelic voice, perfectly in tune, and with no more fire than a damp squib: in tune, but utterly flat? Does HIP matter? Is it a sine qua non? Is Sting trying to promulgate a historically informed performance? Probably not. He has his own agenda. The irony of it all is, his performance is as likely to be as HIP as any other. How do we know Dowland and his contemporaries didn't sing that way? Much has been said in criticism of Karamazov, the lutenist. For me, his performance is also exciting, and I am impressed by the spectacular divisions at the end of the sound clip. His great crime seems to be performing Dowland on an archlute, and with single strings. My Goodness! How could he do such a thing? Wherever was he brought up? Yet, as one who has played the music of Francesco da Milano on an 8-course lute with nylgut strings, I would hesitate to throw the first HIP stone. For me, the big mistake is having the microphones too close to the performers. If that is the sound they are after, good luck to them, but I suspect it was imposed on them by a sound engineer unfamiliar with lutes. If the mike is too close, it will capture that harsh, brittle sound you get when you have your ears right up to the lute ribs. Ideally the mikes should be some distance away, where they are more likely to capture the sound a listener would normally hear from an accoustic instrument. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: Lindberg Richard-MGIA0539 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Paul Pleijsier [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: *** SPAM *** [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! My feelings exactly. I think it is pretty cool for a pop musician to try anything like this whether it's historically accurate or not. At least John Dowland's music will be brought to a new audience if nothing else. Who knows what additonal interest that will pique. Rick -Original Message- From: Paul Pleijsier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 4:26 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! If the CD sounds anything like what you can hear at Amazon then it must go down as one of the worst lute recordings of all times. What are those amazingly loud string noises ? Please try to see what it really is: a fantasy performing style, pop influenced, though not standard Sting-pop, with a poppy use of the studio, exaggerating string noise, compression etc., trying to find the missing link between lute playing and modern pyrotechnics. Let's give Sting and his luter the thumbs up for trying something different. PP To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
In einer eMail vom 26.09.2006 08:52:50 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The irony of it all is, his performance is as likely to be as HIP as any other I still doubt that is true of the singing, but it may be possible But in regards to the lute playing that is not the case. The only reason for the archlute I can see is that it is easier to play for non HIP performers. But then again Erin is praized as a lutenist with a HIP background. Maybe he is a great musician (on other recordings), but he has nothing to do with HIP. best wishes Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
On Sep 26, 2006, at 11:48 AM, Rob Dorsey wrote: Scholarly criticisms aside, doesn't Sting at least get credit for trying? And, aren't we a bit disloyal to the music in not believing that it can stand on its own? This music has endured for 4 centuries. It can surely stand up to some perhaps misguided interpretation by Sting, me, or any other person who sees beauty in it and tries to give it life Donald Grout came to my university when I was a student and someone asked him about doing unHIP things like playing Bach on the piano. He said, If it is worth doing, it is worth doing badly. That always cracks me up. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
I think the early music movement is taken into the main stream classical musical world. That's not a bad thing, only confusing at times. I think the better term might be assimulated. Resistance is futile. I think it has taken a lot of the attitude and edge out of early music and are back in some ways where the early music began. Main stream music has profited. A hip attitude is accepted musical practice all round. What's wrong with that? David To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
I think you have proved my point that the early music movement has lost it's profile. I would agree, but as I said in an earlier posting, I think the early music movement is taken into the main stream classical musical world. That's not a bad thing, only confusing at times. Lute players are no longer hip even though they play lutes, main stream musicians can be very hip, one player can be both in different circumstances. I played my Campion lute song on guitar in last weekend's concert, even though I had an archlute (aargh, non-hip either) at hand as well, to make a better flow in the programma and a more even use of both instruments. Just for the record: for the cd I used an 8-course. David - hip or not, gut on all lutes and guitar To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
In einer eMail vom 26.09.2006 14:48:52 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Instead, we intentionally attempted to appeal to the same audience who may listen to Dead Can Dance, or Loreena McKennitt. If you read my original mail that started all this sting stuff. You will notice that I spoke about Pantagruel's myspace.com page. We have not attempted to intentionally appeal to fan of both of these bands I beleive that HIP played renaissance music would appeal to them as it stands. The reaction has been amazing and we have managed to do that which I believe very few early music group has managed, to get a non-classical young audience interested in this music without comprimising the music. We are the only early music group in the myspace classical charts. best wishes Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
Reading the various comments sparked by Sting's recording has been both enlightening and entertaining. I have to say that I am mostly in sympathy with Gary Digman's rational words. The luteseemsto meansomethingentirely different to different individuals. For many here in the US, it appears to have a huge 'Renaissance Fair' appeal, complete with the costumes and comedy. There are also many afficianados who are completely absorbed in the historical mystique of the lute and its music and would rather not have their reverie interrupted by a real person actually playing the lute. For many, experiencing the lute means listening again and again to their favorite recordings, unaware that a lute recording is always always always the product of manufactured perfection. When I first asked Paul O'Dette about his approach to recording, he indicated that he plays very differently when in front of an engineer's microphone, and never has the first chord of a recorded piece come from the same 'take' as the last chord. Our lutesong duo, Mignarda, released a CD of air de cour earlier this year and we made a conscious effort to break the mold of the typical sound we have all come to expect in lutesong CDs. We decided that the usual Early Music audience was going to seek out the usual suspects and we had neither the budget nor the driving interest to attempt to gain their attention. Instead, we intentionally attempted to appeal to the same audience who may listen to Dead Can Dance, or Loreena McKennitt. We felt that here was an opportunity to convert other listeners to authentic 17th century music merely by not being academic and boring. It seems to have worked. The amusing thing is that mainstream classical radio station WCLV, normally the source of 19th century symphonies and live broadcasts of the Cleveland Orchestra, selected our CD as a 'Choice CD of the Month' a few months ago. Go figure. I agree with Mark that the music is all about the emotional content of the piece and it is our job to convey that. I have no question that David can convincingly play a Campion piece on guitar, since he is obviously deeply involved in the aesthetics of the music. Gary is right to point out that it shouldn't matter whether one is playing Dowland or Coltrane, as long as the meaning of the music is understood and conveyed. The absolute best feedback we ever had after a performance of Dowland's 'Go nightly cares' was from a woman who was not a typical Early Music fan. She approached us afterward and said that she was so completely absorbed in the dark emotion of the song that she became very concerned for Donna and wanted to give her the phone number of a therapist. I think that means we 'sold' the song. By the way, I am organizing a lute playing day for November 11th, to be held in Brattleboro, VT. If anyone is interested, please write me for more information. Ron Andrico Donna Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2]http://www.mignarda.com __ From: gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 03:02:48 -0700 Early muisic movement? Is there a manifesto? Play it as you hear and feel it, make it your own. Do with it what you will. I've played Bela Bartok, Charlie Parker and Lennon and MacCartney as well as Dowland, Terzi and da Milano. I think Sting's heart is in the right place. He did the CD because he loves the lute and Dowland's music, at least thay's what he says' I don't think he ever expected it to become all that commercially successful. Let those who wish to play double strung play and those who wish to play single strung play. I don't conceive of my job as a lutenist to reproduce a performance by John Dowland. ( Not that I could). To paraphrase William Count Basie, I just do what I like to do and if it's HIP, that's great. If not, I'm doing what I like to do. Not that I don't value historical research. I eagerly study the results of scholars into HIP. Every insight helps me to understand and value this music more. And adds to my tool kit. Well, I guess I better go listen to the samples of the Sting CD so I can see what the redness and the swelling is all about. Best to All Gary - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:58 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! In einer eMail vom 25.09.2006 17:25:56 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Interestingly, POD suggested single
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
In einer eMail vom 26.09.2006 16:39:37 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Which is a particularly odd notion because I almost never see lutes at renaissance fairs. You're more likely to see steel-strung Dreadnaught guitars strumming Americanized Irish drinking songs at such venues in my neighborhood. Eugene I have a few copies of the American magazine Renaissance. One of the then has a title story called the Lute Reborn. On the cover there is a picture of Orwain Phyfe playing what could best be descrobed as a steel stung western guitar with with vihuela tendancies. He calls it an Italian chitarra battente. Here I go again ... A chitarra battente was triple stung and his is single strung with what look like western guitar strings. It seems that if you look at both ends of the spectrum it is important for these people to seem authentic by calling their instruments lutes or chitarra battente but in the end it is just keeping up appearences. One of these magazines has an article that states that using HIP music would be impossible at such places because the audience would get bored. So what do they do use lots of drums and oriental instruments like hammered dulcimers etc. best wishes Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
At 12:14 PM 9/26/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a few copies of the American magazine Renaissance. One of the then has a title story called the Lute Reborn. On the cover there is a picture of Orwain Phyfe playing what could best be descrobed as a steel stung western guitar with with vihuela tendancies. He calls it an Italian chitarra battente. Here I go again ... A chitarra battente was triple stung... [I wouldn't say all were triple strung.] ...and his is single strung with what look like western guitar strings. [More importantly, his has an uncanted soundboard and strings set through to a modern-style fixed pin bridge that accommodates six single strings.] This is a funny story to strike a semi-personal chord, because I watched Owain perform many years ago at a renaissance festival. I spoke to him afterwards and said That's an interesting instrument you play. It looks to be a modern guitar built to pretty directly emulate the aesthetics of the Jaquemart-Andre vihuela. Who built it? He replied with the builder (whom I've forgotten other than he is based in Michigan) and This is actually what is called a chitarra battente. Well, I very well know what a chitarra battente is. Owain actually plays one on one of his CDs (although he changes the typical string configuration), so I have to assume he knows too. When I tried to tell him how I saw his modern guitar to differ from the historic application of the term by which he called it, he hastened on to autograph stuff for his unquestioning admirers. I am not a purist by any stretch. I actually enjoy Owain's modern pop-/folk-like approach to renaissance song. His efforts stand very well on their own without him trying to label it what it is not. I am as happy playing Milan on a modern guitar or speculative vihuela, but I defer to common uses of the terms and don't label either as the other. So what do they do use lots of drums and oriental instruments like hammered dulcimers etc. Occasional hammered dulcimer, but a great many steel-strung guitars and modern citterns (i.e., flat-bodied mandola/liuto cantabile with long scale lengths) playing modern Irish drinking songs. That's just fine when it's called what it is. Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
In einer eMail vom 26.09.2006 18:47:31 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: When I tried to tell him how I saw his modern guitar to differ from the historic application of the term by which he called it, he hastened on to autograph stuff for his unquestioning admirers. I am sure Sting will also react in a simular way. Maybe not wait and see. Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:14 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! So what do they do use lots of drums and oriental instruments like hammered dulcimers etc. Hammered dulcimer is as 'HIP' as it can only be (for the 15th - 16th century European music) and may not even be, as is widely believed, of 'oriental' origin ... Alexander To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
In einer eMail vom 26.09.2006 20:27:11 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hammered dulcimer is as 'HIP' as it can only be (for the 15th - 16th century European music) and may not even be, as is widely believed, of 'oriental' origin ... Alexander Hi, I don't doubt that there were Hammered Dulcimers played somewhere in renaissance europe. But as in the overuse of percussion in renaissance performances today I don't believe they were widely used. But I would love to be proved wrong. Any evidence for widespread use of them in the 16th century? No I don't believe they are evil and you are right if they existed then it is not un-HIP to use them. Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
At 05:15 PM 9/26/2006, Roman Turovsky wrote: - Original Message - From: Eugene C. Braig IV [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 12:48 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! At 12:14 PM 9/26/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a few copies of the American magazine Renaissance. One of the then has a title story called the Lute Reborn. On the cover there is a picture of Orwain Phyfe playing what could best be descrobed as a steel stung western guitar with with vihuela tendancies. He calls it an Italian chitarra battente. Here I go again ... A chitarra battente was triple stung... [I wouldn't say all were triple strung.] MArcello Vitale's is double-strung. And (HORROR), he plays with Peter Gabriel. Sounds good to me. My monkey remains unshocked. Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
In einer eMail vom 26.09.2006 23:15:28 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: MArcello Vitale's is double-strung. And (HORROR), he plays with Peter Gabriel. RT Thanks for the info that they were also double strung nice to learn something. I would still like to know why it seems people use more and more single strung archlutes, but sadly no one will tell me. Love Peter Gabriel, would be intersting to hear him play Dowland, not bothered what he uses to accompany himself as long as he doesn't start saying that all modern rock music is over, because he has begun to play Dowland. My disgust of single strung archlutes is fueled by a lack of information. Come on tell me all why you love these instruments. I mean Edin has wonderful credentials looking forward to hearing why he chose that instrument. Please inform me I have leant a lot tonight the end of popular music has been shown to be a fact I feel quite small and useless being so picky about the single string archlutes. He even talks about stravinsky as being a rolemodel for him, but I amjust so out of date listening to emo-rock. I can see it now when I die Stravinsky and Sting saying you can't come in to the musicians heaven you believed in rock music and emotion. Come again is being released as a single maybe with a puff daddy remix. Now that is a great musician isn't it, sting says modern music has become so monotone, good that sting performed with the maestro Puffy at the MTV awards. That is a combination Puffy, Stravinsky and Sting, that warms the heart. Please a last time, what is the advantage of a single strung archlute, if they are so good I don't want to miss out on the fun. Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] My disgust of single strung archlutes is fueled by a lack of information. Come on tell me all why you love these instruments. I mean Edin has wonderful credentials looking forward to hearing why he chose that instrument. You are being ludicrous. Edin's archlute is double-strung entirely, and Sting's- partially, judging from the photos that CLEARLY show double strings on the fingerboard. Cease and desist already. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:56 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! Take it easy I don't think our little debate hear will change the course of this CD reception. Good publicity is a very rare occurance. That's right and lets be thankful to the guy admitting the end of 'message in a bottle' sort of dribble! Alexander To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
In einer eMail vom 27.09.2006 00:23:16 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: That's right and lets be thankful to the guy admitting the end of 'message in a bottle' sort of dribble! Alexander I made a mistake I meant bad publicity is a rare occurance. Probably my rants have sold him a few CD's. But I would not listen to the Early music show next month where his live concert will be broadcast he is planning to play some of his pop stuff on the lute. Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 11:44 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! But I would not listen to the Early music show next month where his live concert will be broadcast he is planning to play some of his pop stuff on the lute. I wouldn't either ... unless this lady will trumpet his voice part ;)) http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/classical/newgenerations/balsom.shtml Alexander To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please a last time, what is the advantage of a single strung archlute A little louder, a little easier to tune. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
On Sep 26, 2006, at 7:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Sting/Gwen Stefani collaboration for the Super Bowl I was staring the whole time at Stefani. Was Sting on stage? It appears we have rushed to judgement. As you can see here: http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,14932-2227126,00.html Sting is playing a perfectly HIP instrument, even following the current fashion for playing near the bridge. DS To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 12:16 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! It seems he will be playing Message in a bottle especially for you. Thanks Mark, from now on I'm all ears! ... For me, singing is a spiritual journey. I'm devoutly musical. As for my voice, I'd say it's become more mature. Encrypted with life, it's developed texture,â? he says. I suppose he was doing a good deal of humming Ooohmm to his archlute before his voice gained the necessary texture. Alexander To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
On Monday 25 September 2006 12:10, you wrote: Hi, thanks for the link to the lute maker. But the photos showed a liuto attiorbato with double bass strings. So doesn't apply to the instruments they are playing. Also maybe the reason sting wraps his arms around the lute is to hide the single strings. maybe it's archlute with double bass strings and single strings on the finger board? :) The are playing a concert on german television so I will be able to check if they are playing single strings or not. in a comic show? But the question still remains why didn't they use a lute in the style that Dowland Played ? Archlute is a serious mistake, but if it is single strung then it is joke, a shame that such a high profile CD should present such a misrepresentation of the renaissance lute. I presume for a single reason: the look of an archlute. I was once asked to playback with violinist Andre Rieu on a setting in Cortona (Toscane/Italy) just for the theorbo view. Although I have hesitated (good payment and of course nice part of Italy), I refused. It didn't matter what the music was, they just wanted to have shots of a theorbo and not a standard lute. Taco Mark To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
One might argue that John Dowland's music doesn't belong to the spirit of renaissance any more but, rather, to that of baroque. Furthermore, the kind of lute required for his songs might be called a baroque lute (or baroquish, if you will), rather than renaissance, because of its expanded bass register. I think is so typical of the wrong approach to renaissance music, due to the fact the music of the period is judged as the younger and smaller brother of the baroque. If you want to learn more about Dowland's world view read Tony Rooley's article Dowlands Songs of Darkness. The concepts behind Dowlands music are totally renaissance and what do you exactly mean with expanded bass register - Dowlands last song is for 7 course lute. For another distorted view of renaissance music have a look at the amazon.com review of the Sting (g)lute CD. But it's important to remember that music of this period was routinely heard as a casual diversion in private homes, even more often than at Court. It was considered a crucial social skill to be able to join in with an adequate degree of skill, but not everyone was able to negotiate the perilous melodic twists and turns typical of the era's music. With this in mind, the overall effect is of a candle-lit, postprandial entertainment in the home of an English gentleman. AMAZON.COM People that would have been able to buy a lute and buy a Dowland book would have had lessons from a professional teacher. So it may be a romantic idea that Stings CD is a representation of musical life in ye olde England, but it has absolutely no basis. Maybe we should record a tribute to sting in a Karaoke bar, because his music is probably performed there more often than by sting on stage. All the best Mark -Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Verschickt: Mo., 25.Sept.2006, 15:18 Thema: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! But the question still remains why didn't they use a lute in the style that Dowland Played ? I can't say why they did not so. But what I can say from experience is that accompaniment for John Dowland's songs sounds just as well on a theorboed lute (arciliuto, archlute, liuto attiorbato or whatever you may call it). Archlute is a serious mistake, says who? I for one could easily imagine people of around 1640, having fun with Fine Knacks for Ladies on arciliuto. I've played it that way even 366 years later, and it is lovely, I needs must say. but if it is single strung then it is joke, How do you know? a shame that such a high profile CD should present such a misrepresentation of the renaissance lute One might argue that John Dowland's music doesn't belong to the spirit of renaissance any more but, rather, to that of baroque. Furthermore, the kind of lute required for his songs might be called a baroque lute (or baroquish, if you will), rather than renaissance, because of its expanded bass register. -- Best, Mathias -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
I am currently having an archlute built for me and at the LSA I asked Paul O'Dette for any advice on specifications, since he has an archlute by the same builder. Interestingly, POD suggested single stinging as an option. Now I don't know whether that recommendation was because of my personal circumstances (amateur player, won't travel with it so size not a big concern, used mostly for continuo and not solo (unless Sting asks me!)) or whether he considered this a reasonable option for anyone. In the end I opted for the more conventional 1x1, 2x5, 1x8 approach. DS To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
On Sep 25, 2006, at 10:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For another distorted view of renaissance music have a look at the amazon.com review of the Sting (g)lute CD. But it's important to remember that music of this period was routinely heard as a casual diversion in private homes, even more often than at Court. It was considered a crucial social skill to be able to join in with an adequate degree of skill, but not everyone was able to negotiate the perilous melodic twists and turns typical of the era's music. With this in mind, the overall effect is of a candle-lit, postprandial entertainment in the home of an English gentleman. AMAZON.COM Are you disagreeing with the premise that people played for their own entertainment in the home and probably didn't do such a great job of it? Just because they had a professional teacher, doesn't mean they were skilled or interested (see the lute scenes from Taming of the Shrew). That's not an excuse to make a CD that sounds like amateurs of the day, but again there was nothing HIP about Sting's approach. This is his version of Pop sensibility. I think what rankles is that the end product does sound more like someone trying to be profoundly HIP (while ignoring the H and I parts) rather than a more modern pop cross-over approach. Actually, for an Amazon.com editorial review, I thought it was pretty good. I like the line about chest heavy vocals; the breathing on the excerpts really is intrusive. Here is the whole thing: In choosing to cover the music of John Dowland (1563-1626), who is known as the melancholy madrigalist from his output of cheerful ditties like Flow My Tears, Police bandleader Sting has entered into a whole new realm of austere eeriness. Originally inspired by the gift of a lute, the rock superstar and activist sings the songs, deliciously sweet and tender or spirited by turn, accompanying himself, with Edin Karamazov sitting on lute and archlute. For listeners accustomed to hearing material of this period interpreted by rigorously trained early music stylists, especially countertenors and the like, Sting's sometimes tight-jawed, chest-heavy vocals may seem amateurish. It's undeniable that in four-part harmonies, the singer, tightly overdubbed, comes across like a combination of the Swingle Singers and Queen (meaning Freddy Mercury and crew, NOT the first Elizabeth). But it's important to remember that music of this period was routinely heard as a casual diversion in private homes, even more often than at Court. It was considered a crucial social skill to be able to join in with an adequate degree of skill, but not everyone was able to negotiate the perilous melodic twists and turns typical of the era's music. With this in mind, the overall effect is of a candle-lit, postprandial entertainment in the home of an English gentleman. Muttered readings from Dowland's letters and brief snippets of sampled birdsong aside, it is a courageous effort, displaying heartfelt admiration for the composer and a considerable degree of earnest charm. --Christina Roden -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
In einer eMail vom 25.09.2006 17:42:38 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Are you disagreeing with the premise that people played for their own entertainment in the home and probably didn't do such a great job of it? Just because they had a professional teacher, doesn't mean they were skilled or interested (see the lute scenes from Taming of the Shrew). That's not an excuse to make a CD that sounds like amateurs of the day, but again there was nothing HIP about Sting's approach. This is his version of Pop sensibility. I think what rankles is that the end product does sound more like someone trying to be profoundly HIP (while ignoring the H and I parts) rather than a more modern pop cross-over approach. I think have have hit the nail on the head. A pop crossover thing would have been more interesting and reasonably sonically satisying. In the end I think that any reasonable folk singer would have done a much better job and maybe have sounded more like what a bad of maybe good amateur would have sounded like. The problem is that it is being hyped as more HIP than HIP which is ridiculous. That the CD is in fact produced with help of HIP teachers and even promoted by a public figure of the HIP scene shows questions seriously if we don't need to reconsider what the early music movement is up to at the moment. Are hammered dulcimers, single strung archlutes, saxes and free beer the the answer ? I remember buying the Dowland's Second Book of Songs from the consort of musicke when I was 14 and it was an experience that changed my life. Now 24 years later the same record company (Polygram) would not think of releasing such a CD. Instead we get a string of cross-over projects, ABBA sung by classical singers, Sting sings Dowland and Andre Rieu has a Theorbo bouncing around in his video. Something has gone wrong... Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
In einer eMail vom 25.09.2006 17:25:56 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Interestingly, POD suggested single stinging as an option. If this is true then maybe the time has come for a reformation of the early music movement, how did we get in this mess ! Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
Perhaps we should all take a deep breath and mellow a bit. The Sting Controversy seems to have had at least one positive effect (affect?) - it has enlivened the list. I find myself in the strange position of agreement with RT in that if it's a non-traditional performance of Dowland's songs, then I am all for it. (and I am not the only one who is leery of being told that there's just one right way to do it.) ...Then when some one, in an effort to cast aspersion, compared the lute playing to a classical guitarist - I just had to order the CD. Joseph Mayes On 9/25/06 10:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One might argue that John Dowland's music doesn't belong to the spirit of renaissance any more but, rather, to that of baroque. Furthermore, the kind of lute required for his songs might be called a baroque lute (or baroquish, if you will), rather than renaissance, because of its expanded bass register. I think is so typical of the wrong approach to renaissance music, due to the fact the music of the period is judged as the younger and smaller brother of the baroque. If you want to learn more about Dowland's world view read Tony Rooley's article Dowlands Songs of Darkness. The concepts behind Dowlands music are totally renaissance and what do you exactly mean with expanded bass register - Dowlands last song is for 7 course lute. For another distorted view of renaissance music have a look at the amazon.com review of the Sting (g)lute CD. But it's important to remember that music of this period was routinely heard as a casual diversion in private homes, even more often than at Court. It was considered a crucial social skill to be able to join in with an adequate degree of skill, but not everyone was able to negotiate the perilous melodic twists and turns typical of the era's music. With this in mind, the overall effect is of a candle-lit, postprandial entertainment in the home of an English gentleman. AMAZON.COM People that would have been able to buy a lute and buy a Dowland book would have had lessons from a professional teacher. So it may be a romantic idea that Stings CD is a representation of musical life in ye olde England, but it has absolutely no basis. Maybe we should record a tribute to sting in a Karaoke bar, because his music is probably performed there more often than by sting on stage. All the best Mark -Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Verschickt: Mo., 25.Sept.2006, 15:18 Thema: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! But the question still remains why didn't they use a lute in the style that Dowland Played ? I can't say why they did not so. But what I can say from experience is that accompaniment for John Dowland's songs sounds just as well on a theorboed lute (arciliuto, archlute, liuto attiorbato or whatever you may call it). Archlute is a serious mistake, says who? I for one could easily imagine people of around 1640, having fun with Fine Knacks for Ladies on arciliuto. I've played it that way even 366 years later, and it is lovely, I needs must say. but if it is single strung then it is joke, How do you know? a shame that such a high profile CD should present such a misrepresentation of the renaissance lute One might argue that John Dowland's music doesn't belong to the spirit of renaissance any more but, rather, to that of baroque. Furthermore, the kind of lute required for his songs might be called a baroque lute (or baroquish, if you will), rather than renaissance, because of its expanded bass register. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
In einer eMail vom 25.09.2006 19:08:05 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ...Then when some one, in an effort to cast aspersion, compared the lute playing to a classical guitarist - I just had to order the CD. I just had another listen this time to Forlorne Hope Fantasy and sorry I take everything back that I have said because it just wasn't critial enough. If the CD sounds anything like what you can hear at Amazon then it must go down as one of the worst lute recordings of all times. What are those amazingly loud string noises ? Also the instrument must be single strung or he has such a bad technique that he only ever plays one string of a course. I think the only performance I have ever heard that is quite so bad was Yepes Bach lute recording. I think that has always been a benchmark for bad lute playing and now we have something new. Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
It has been long time when I last tuned my archlute - which now is stringed by single strings on the fingerboard (and of course single basses). I tuned the beast (or the axe a'la RT), and what nice and lute like sound it has! And there is not a single gut string... just the horrible and un-HIP synthetics! :-) I just scanned through some pieces in the Doni ms. (SPES 70). And nobody is allowed to say me it wasn't lute playing and lute sound! :-) Dear folks, play well and enjoy your music! Perhaps others will, too... :) All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
BTW, in his article Chitarrone, Theorbo and Archlute late Bob Spencer also mentions the possibility that Banchieri might have meant by chitarrone an instrument tuned lute like and by single strings. That is why I sometimes have called my sometimes single stringed archlute a Bachieri archlute. And also played continuo to Banchieri's music by that instrument. Arto PS Robert's article is in http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/spencer/html/spencer.htm and also as facsimile http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/spencer/html/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
In einer eMail vom 25.09.2006 20:21:05 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: BTW, in his article Chitarrone, Theorbo and Archlute late Bob Spencer also mentions the possibility that Banchieri might have meant by chitarrone an instrument tuned lute like and by single strings. Sorry, but he simply states Banchieri does not say if the instrument is single or double strung. But what is fact is that many theorboes were double strung. You can do whatever you like add a humbucker, tune it in DADGAD, but in the end it ain't an archlute anymore at least in the HIP sense. But if you want to play on a DG recording it a good step, doesn't matter how bad you play. Be sure to get one of those Pianco suits and then you can sit right next to Miss Bartoli. You will get a mike and you can play all those nice schubert style arpegrios and the press will say you is so authentic and wild. I love my double strings and wouldn't swap them for the ease or job opportunities Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
My feelings exactly. I think it is pretty cool for a pop musician to try anything like this whether it's historically accurate or not. At least John Dowland's music will be brought to a new audience if nothing else. Who knows what additonal interest that will pique. Rick -Original Message- From: Paul Pleijsier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 4:26 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! If the CD sounds anything like what you can hear at Amazon then it must go down as one of the worst lute recordings of all times. What are those amazingly loud string noises ? Please try to see what it really is: a fantasy performing style, pop influenced, though not standard Sting-pop, with a poppy use of the studio, exaggerating string noise, compression etc., trying to find the missing link between lute playing and modern pyrotechnics. Let's give Sting and his luter the thumbs up for trying something different. PP To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
Ed wrote: I'm already preparing a sign for my next gig: As sung by Sting ha, ha. That's exactly what I was thinking about when driving back to switzerland this afternoon. I was also toying with the idea of a webpage more or less advertizing sting and setting some links to some of my own performances To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
In the meantime the Early Music Movement seem to have changed the direction. More and more players don't even try to play historical informed but just play period instruments. I am not sure what to think about this phenomenon ... Best wishes Thomas -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 25. September 2006 18:59 An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! In einer eMail vom 25.09.2006 17:25:56 Westeurop=E4ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Interestingly, POD suggested single stinging as an option. If this is true then maybe the time has come for a reformation of the early music movement, how did we get in this mess ! Mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
On Sep 25, 2006, at 5:46 PM, Thomas Schall wrote: In the meantime the Early Music Movement seem to have changed the direction. More and more players don't even try to play historical informed but just play period instruments. I am not sure what to think about this phenomenon ... Keep in mind, Thomas, that the HIP movement was preceded by the Authenticity movement. A lot of good came from the Authenticity movement, but also a lot of very dry, boring, and at times downright funny, renditions of early music. It's that peculiar reputation from the Authenticity days that we still have live down today. But the pendulum is gradually swinging the other way, and personally I'm glad to see that. The fact that the Early Music Movement is still going through changes tells me that it's still very much alive and well. David R [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
Well, to read your post and none of the discussion that precedes it, one would think that you are the shining voice against a sea of narrow minded HIP obsessed elitists who can't accept a performance unless the players have authentic 16th century food in their stomachs while they play. It's easy to argue when you mis-represent the opposing view. Nobody expected Emma Kirkby. No-one expected an attempt at HIP other than bringing a different pop sensibility to great music. Mark is upset that a (possibly) single strung archlute was used but it was a solitary opinion. I welcomed and was excited about this CD for all the reasons I previously posted. But based on the available sound samples, it's not that it is different from what O'Dette and Hargis or McFarlane and Baird would have done. It is that it sounds REALLY bad, as it does to the many ears of a rather diverse group of international lutenists of very different backgrounds, experience and sensibilities. We both agree that it is mic'd too closely. I guess we disagree about the incredibly breathy singing with over enunciated vowels. We also disagree about the sound quality of the lute (I personally couldn't care less if it was lute, archlute, theorbo, or Apple GarageBand) and the interpretation. I can honestly say, hand on heart, that in a blind taste test, without knowing who was performing, I would have had the same negative reaction to the clips. I really wonder whether everyone praising them could say the same. Would be interesting to try with classical neophytes (think I might try that). Will be sure to include the Forge Players in the mix: http://phobos.apple.com/ WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=999003s=143441 (I especially like the wail of Come Again). Nevertheless, I have included a link from my website to Amazon, so I'll pocket 5% of every CD sold to any of the 30 or so visitors a day to my site (Hypcriticaly Instigated Payment?)! DS On Sep 25, 2006, at 8:08 PM, Stewart McCoy wrote: Dear Rick and Paul, Thank you for your common-sense contributions. The Sting thread has aroused many passions. I am inclined to think that many of the contributions have been sent in by a load of fuddy-duddies. I am reminded of my old school chaplain, who disliked the Beatles, and seemed to resent their popularity. When I told him that I liked their music, he was aghast. What sort of voices do they have? Are they tenors? he asked scathingly. It was the wrong question. They weren't tenors. To be a tenor, meant singing classical music with a trained voice. The Beatles did something else, and it was a mistake on the chaplain's part to try to judge them by inappropriate criteria. So it is with many of the critical comments levelled against Sting. If we expect him to sound like Emma Kirkby, we shall be disappointed. He sings Dowland his own way. His performance of Can she excuse my wrongs has excitement and passion. The out-of-tune notes may grate on our refined ears, but at least they are sung with committment. It is an angry, passionate song, supposedly about the Earl of Essex' unrequited love for Queen Elizabeth. How many times have I heard it sung beautifully by an angelic voice, perfectly in tune, and with no more fire than a damp squib: in tune, but utterly flat? Does HIP matter? Is it a sine qua non? Is Sting trying to promulgate a historically informed performance? Probably not. He has his own agenda. The irony of it all is, his performance is as likely to be as HIP as any other. How do we know Dowland and his contemporaries didn't sing that way? Much has been said in criticism of Karamazov, the lutenist. For me, his performance is also exciting, and I am impressed by the spectacular divisions at the end of the sound clip. His great crime seems to be performing Dowland on an archlute, and with single strings. My Goodness! How could he do such a thing? Wherever was he brought up? Yet, as one who has played the music of Francesco da Milano on an 8-course lute with nylgut strings, I would hesitate to throw the first HIP stone. For me, the big mistake is having the microphones too close to the performers. If that is the sound they are after, good luck to them, but I suspect it was imposed on them by a sound engineer unfamiliar with lutes. If the mike is too close, it will capture that harsh, brittle sound you get when you have your ears right up to the lute ribs. Ideally the mikes should be some distance away, where they are more likely to capture the sound a listener would normally hear from an accoustic instrument. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: Lindberg Richard-MGIA0539 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Paul Pleijsier [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: *** SPAM *** [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! My feelings exactly. I think it is pretty cool for a pop musician
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
All, I've followed this thread at a great distance and with some trepidation. In all, it is sad when scholarly minds wander so far from the path and no longer follow the best angels of our nature. Passion is the impetus that drives greatness, for sure, but the easy and slippery slope from passion to acrimony is always there and ready to foul the party. While not as learned as many of those who posted here, I have an idea that all this talk of HIP and authentic performance is, ultimately, for bupkis. If you take a simple man who cannot read into the Sistine Chapel, he is still stunned by its beauty. (I know. I took flight attendants there and no more simple creature exists on this earth.) Likewise, the Mozart Requiem engulfs the football rowdy in its all enveloping pathos, just like a human. Scholarly criticisms aside, doesn't Sting at least get credit for trying? And, aren't we a bit disloyal to the music in not believing that it can stand on its own? This music has endured for 4 centuries. It can surely stand up to some perhaps misguided interpretation by Sting, me, or any other person who sees beauty in it and tries to give it life. We toil at Bach because when it works, in that rare, fleeting moment, it is miraculous. This music is the very heart and soul of beauty and transcends the centuries to become relevant today. Hopefully, that's why we play it, not just to satisfy some academic hunger to recreate the past. This is music folks, not archeology. I reckon that the music is greater than its interpreters. I listened to the cuts from the CD. I probably won't buy it but, damn, old Sting tried and took a real chance in doing so. That the critical harpies want to pick him apart is too bad. Quite frankly, it was like watching someone being picked to death by crows. The music is the thing, its preservation essential, and shame on us for not loudly encouraging anyone who attempts to play it. Rob Dorsey http://RobDorsey.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!!
heard it sung beautifully by an angelic voice, perfectly in tune, and with no more fire than a damp squib: in tune, but utterly flat? Does HIP matter? Is it a sine qua non? Is Sting trying to promulgate a historically informed performance? Probably not. He has his own agenda. The irony of it all is, his performance is as likely to be as HIP as any other. How do we know Dowland and his contemporaries didn't sing that way? Much has been said in criticism of Karamazov, the lutenist. For me, his performance is also exciting, and I am impressed by the spectacular divisions at the end of the sound clip. His great crime seems to be performing Dowland on an archlute, and with single strings. My Goodness! How could he do such a thing? Wherever was he brought up? Yet, as one who has played the music of Francesco da Milano on an 8-course lute with nylgut strings, I would hesitate to throw the first HIP stone. For me, the big mistake is having the microphones too close to the performers. If that is the sound they are after, good luck to them, but I suspect it was imposed on them by a sound engineer unfamiliar with lutes. If the mike is too close, it will capture that harsh, brittle sound you get when you have your ears right up to the lute ribs. Ideally the mikes should be some distance away, where they are more likely to capture the sound a listener would normally hear from an accoustic instrument. Best wishes, Stewart McCoy. - Original Message - From: Lindberg Richard-MGIA0539 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Paul Pleijsier [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: *** SPAM *** [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! My feelings exactly. I think it is pretty cool for a pop musician to try anything like this whether it's historically accurate or not. At least John Dowland's music will be brought to a new audience if nothing else. Who knows what additonal interest that will pique. Rick -Original Message- From: Paul Pleijsier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 4:26 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single strung archlute !!! If the CD sounds anything like what you can hear at Amazon then it must go down as one of the worst lute recordings of all times. What are those amazingly loud string noises ? Please try to see what it really is: a fantasy performing style, pop influenced, though not standard Sting-pop, with a poppy use of the studio, exaggerating string noise, compression etc., trying to find the missing link between lute playing and modern pyrotechnics. Let's give Sting and his luter the thumbs up for trying something different. PP To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
