[LUTE] Re: Stung again
My point is not that he is good, in your girlfriend's sense of the term, but that he is popular, more popular than your girlfriend or I will ever be, and he is using that popularity to introduce a "wider audience" to the lute which is what so many on this list say they want. Gary - Original Message - From: Omer katzir To: gary digman Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 2:31 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Stung again well, my girlfriend is a viol (gamba) player, study at the KCB in belgium with Phillipe Pierlot (go to vereddagamba.com) when i sent her my copy of "Songs from the labyrinth", she wanted to kill me :-) she said that our dear sting, killed the lute and killed the songs with his bad voice. well, that what she thinks, i dont hate the CD, but he's not really good. On Mar 30, 2007, at 1:17 PM, gary digman wrote: Last night Sting's "Songs From the Labyrinth" Great Performances show finally made it to my local PBS station. Overall I liked it. Some thoughts did come to mind as I watched it. Sting's is obviously not a classically trained voice, but that may be what is called for to "bring this music to a wider audience". I have heard that classical music amounts to about 3% of the market and early music is a small fraction of that. So, it seems to me, the vote is in on classically trained voices. They are not popular. Sting is, or has been, popular. If one wants to make the lute and lute music popular, as some have proposed on this list, one must accept that certain concessions to what is popular will be made. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If these concessions to what makes something popular are unacceptable to you, I say, "be careful what you wish for." Even so, Sting was correct in saying that his recording of these songs would not be popular in the way he is! use! d to. I teach general guitar classes at a local community college and virtually all of the young hotshot rock guitarists taking my classes who may like the music of Sting and the Police say his Dowland CD "sucks", and not because it deviates from HIP. And yet upwards of 500,000 of Sting's fans have purchased the CD, a smash hit beyond the wildest dreams of Paul O'dette or Hopkinson Smith. Sting performs this music with great affection and respect. I think he truly loves these songs and the lute, and I, for one, applaud him for that. Also, I cannot understand those on this list who have trashed Edin Karamazov's performance. I found his playing masterful and impressive. He is a great lutenist. I think what Sting and Karamazov have done is a marvelous service to the lute and the music that will be of benefit to us all in providing more opportunities to play. So, I say, "Carry on, Sting!" Gary Digman -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.20/736 - Release Date: 3/27/2007 4:38 PM --
[LUTE] Re: Stung again
Dear all, I heard a report last week that "classical music" was the genre with the single largest increase in sales over all styles last year: up 22%. This was largely due to two performers: the ever-popular Andrea Bocelli and Sting. Chris --- gary digman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Last night Sting's "Songs From the > Labyrinth" Great Performances show finally made it > to my local PBS station. Overall I liked it. Some > thoughts did come to mind as I watched it. Sting's > is obviously not a classically trained voice, but > that may be what is called for to "bring this music > to a wider audience". I have heard that classical > music amounts to about 3% of the market and early > music is a small fraction of that. So, it seems to > me, the vote is in on classically trained voices. > They are not popular. Sting is, or has been, > popular. If one wants to make the lute and lute > music popular, as some have proposed on this list, > one must accept that certain concessions to what is > popular will be made. You can't have your cake and > eat it too. If these concessions to what makes > something popular are unacceptable to you, I say, > "be careful what you wish for." Even so, Sting was > correct in saying that his recording of these songs > would not be popular in the way he is use! > d to. I teach general guitar classes at a local > community college and virtually all of the young > hotshot rock guitarists taking my classes who may > like the music of Sting and the Police say his > Dowland CD "sucks", and not because it deviates from > HIP. And yet upwards of 500,000 of Sting's fans have > purchased the CD, a smash hit beyond the wildest > dreams of Paul O'dette or Hopkinson Smith. > Sting performs this music with great > affection and respect. I think he truly loves these > songs and the lute, and I, for one, applaud him for > that. Also, I cannot understand those on this list > who have trashed Edin Karamazov's performance. I > found his playing masterful and impressive. He is a > great lutenist. >I think what Sting and Karamazov have done is > a marvelous service to the lute and the music that > will be of benefit to us all in providing more > opportunities to play. So, I say, "Carry on, Sting!" > > Gary Digman > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
[LUTE] Re: Stung again
On Mar 30, 2007, at 6:41 AM, gary digman wrote: > My point is not that he is good, in your girlfriend's sense of the > term, but that he is popular, more popular than your girlfriend or > I will ever be, and he is using that popularity to introduce a > "wider audience" to the lute which is what so many on this list say > they want. It's certainly true that Sting has brought the lute to a wider audience, but I wonder how much of that audience will even remember the lute a year from now. On two occasions in the last two months I've heard Sting and his lute described over the media as "Sting and his "f--king lute." Quite possibly the whole Labyrinth thing is beginning to bore people... Sting has created a short-lived sort of parallel universe in which a lute is "that thing that Sting plays." IMO the lute world (or, as our Exhalted Empress would put it: "the known lute world" ;-)) will continue on its course as if Sting never existed. David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Stung again
On Mar 30, 2007, at 3:57 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: > Which empress??? You mean there's more than one? > Yesterday I taught 2 classes of 19-year olds at NYU, invited by a > poet-friend who teaches a History of Culture course which touches > on the > "mystification as a literary vehicle". Interesting. When I was in graduate school it was de-mystification. Still, that was a long time ago... > So I was asked to do a presentation > on Sautscheckerei, my humble self in the context of literary > mystification > from Descartes, Chatterton, Macpherson, Merimee, Musin-Pushkin and > other > fine individuals > Dan Swenberg (of the Rebel Baroque Orchestra et al.) helped out > with a dozen > and a half Sarmaticae et Ruthenicae on the Renaissance lute. I > played the > sautscheckerei myself in the second half- baroque lute settings of and > variations on Ukrainian songs, with some originals interspersed, nach > Haydnisches Manier, naturlich, as a musical equivalent of Merimee's > GUZLA. > The picaresque aspect of the event also was certainly useful. Very impressive! > But before > Sting came along we would drawn blank stares. These kids were > genuinely > interested. Because you play "that thing that Sting plays." Ho! Ho! Just kidding. Seriously, we're all "mystified" by Sting's success. David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Stung again
>> Which empress??? > > You mean there's more than one? I didn't know any. > >> Yesterday I taught 2 classes of 19-year olds at NYU, invited by a >> poet-friend who teaches a History of Culture course which touches >> on the >> "mystification as a literary vehicle". > > Interesting. When I was in graduate school it was de-mystification. > Still, that was a long time ago... I don't think anything has changed really, unless positivism has abated a bit. > >> So I was asked to do a presentation >> on Sautscheckerei, my humble self in the context of literary >> mystification >> from Descartes, Chatterton, Macpherson, Merimee, Musin-Pushkin and >> other >> fine individuals >> Dan Swenberg (of the Rebel Baroque Orchestra et al.) helped out >> with a dozen >> and a half Sarmaticae et Ruthenicae on the Renaissance lute. I >> played the >> sautscheckerei myself in the second half- baroque lute settings of and >> variations on Ukrainian songs, with some originals interspersed, nach >> Haydnisches Manier, naturlich, as a musical equivalent of Merimee's >> GUZLA. >> The picaresque aspect of the event also was certainly useful. > > Very impressive! Lot of fun indeed. > >> But before >> Sting came along we would drawn blank stares. These kids were >> genuinely >> interested. > > Because you play "that thing that Sting plays." Ho! Ho! Just > kidding. Seriously, we're all "mystified" by Sting's success. I wasn't, for one. He is consummate musician (even if he gets raspy), and so is Karamazov. The reward for their work was merited, absolutely. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Stung again
empress of all flowers ... i fear david may be right in that the preconcieved notions people carry with them can sometimes make it .. the thing itself - seem unrecognizable. can too much information be just as "dangerous" (in a "tree for the forest" situation) as too little? --- David Rastall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mar 30, 2007, at 3:57 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: > > > Which empress??? > > You mean there's more than one? > > > Yesterday I taught 2 classes of 19-year olds at > NYU, invited by a > > poet-friend who teaches a History of Culture > course which touches > > on the > > "mystification as a literary vehicle". > > Interesting. When I was in graduate school it was > de-mystification. > Still, that was a long time ago... > > > So I was asked to do a presentation > > on Sautscheckerei, my humble self in the context > of literary > > mystification > > from Descartes, Chatterton, Macpherson, Merimee, > Musin-Pushkin and > > other > > fine individuals > > Dan Swenberg (of the Rebel Baroque Orchestra et > al.) helped out > > with a dozen > > and a half Sarmaticae et Ruthenicae on the > Renaissance lute. I > > played the > > sautscheckerei myself in the second half- baroque > lute settings of and > > variations on Ukrainian songs, with some originals > interspersed, nach > > Haydnisches Manier, naturlich, as a musical > equivalent of Merimee's > > GUZLA. > > The picaresque aspect of the event also was > certainly useful. > > Very impressive! > > > But before > > Sting came along we would drawn blank stares. > These kids were > > genuinely > > interested. > > Because you play "that thing that Sting plays." Ho! > Ho! Just > kidding. Seriously, we're all "mystified" by > Sting's success. > > David Rastall > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.rastallmusic.com > > > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > ___ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
[LUTE] Re: Stung again
>> My point is not that he is good, in your girlfriend's sense of the >> term, but that he is popular, more popular than your girlfriend or >> I will ever be, and he is using that popularity to introduce a >> "wider audience" to the lute which is what so many on this list say >> they want. > > It's certainly true that Sting has brought the lute to a wider > audience, but I wonder how much of that audience will even remember > the lute a year from now. On two occasions in the last two months > I've heard Sting and his lute described over the media as "Sting and > his "f--king lute." Quite possibly the whole Labyrinth thing is > beginning to bore people... > > Sting has created a short-lived sort of parallel universe in which a > lute is "that thing that Sting plays." IMO the lute world (or, as > our Exhalted Empress would put it: "the known lute world" ;-)) will > continue on its course as if Sting never existed. > David Rastall Which empress??? Just what fruit will the Sting caper bear is not known, but it will bear something, and things start happening already. Yesterday I taught 2 classes of 19-year olds at NYU, invited by a poet-friend who teaches a History of Culture course which touches on the "mystification as a literary vehicle". So I was asked to do a presentation on Sautscheckerei, my humble self in the context of literary mystification from Descartes, Chatterton, Macpherson, Merimee, Musin-Pushkin and other fine individuals Dan Swenberg (of the Rebel Baroque Orchestra et al.) helped out with a dozen and a half Sarmaticae et Ruthenicae on the Renaissance lute. I played the sautscheckerei myself in the second half- baroque lute settings of and variations on Ukrainian songs, with some originals interspersed, nach Haydnisches Manier, natürlich, as a musical equivalent of Merimee's GUZLA. The picaresque aspect of the event also was certainly useful. But before Sting came along we would drawn blank stares. These kids were genuinely interested. RT _ Need personalized email and website? Look no further. It's easy with Doteasy $0 Web Hosting! Learn more at www.doteasy.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Stung again
> empress of all flowers ... > > i fear david may be right in that the preconcieved > notions people carry with them can sometimes make it > .. the thing itself - seem unrecognizable. > > can too much information be just as "dangerous" (in a > "tree for the forest" situation) as too little? Absolutely, for artists in particular. RT > > --- David Rastall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Mar 30, 2007, at 3:57 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: >> >> > Which empress??? >> >> You mean there's more than one? >> >> > Yesterday I taught 2 classes of 19-year olds at >> NYU, invited by a >> > poet-friend who teaches a History of Culture >> course which touches >> > on the >> > "mystification as a literary vehicle". >> >> Interesting. When I was in graduate school it was >> de-mystification. >> Still, that was a long time ago... >> >> > So I was asked to do a presentation >> > on Sautscheckerei, my humble self in the context >> of literary >> > mystification >> > from Descartes, Chatterton, Macpherson, Merimee, >> Musin-Pushkin and >> > other >> > fine individuals >> > Dan Swenberg (of the Rebel Baroque Orchestra et >> al.) helped out >> > with a dozen >> > and a half Sarmaticae et Ruthenicae on the >> Renaissance lute. I >> > played the >> > sautscheckerei myself in the second half- baroque >> lute settings of and >> > variations on Ukrainian songs, with some originals >> interspersed, nach >> > Haydnisches Manier, naturlich, as a musical >> equivalent of Merimee's >> > GUZLA. >> > The picaresque aspect of the event also was >> certainly useful. >> >> Very impressive! >> >> > But before >> > Sting came along we would drawn blank stares. >> These kids were >> > genuinely >> > interested. >> >> Because you play "that thing that Sting plays." Ho! >> Ho! Just >> kidding. Seriously, we're all "mystified" by >> Sting's success. >> >> David Rastall >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> www.rastallmusic.com >> >> >> >> -- >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > > > > > > ___ > New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out > more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. > http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk > > > > _ Need personalized email and website? Look no further. It's easy with Doteasy $0 Web Hosting! Learn more at www.doteasy.com
[LUTE] Re: Stung again
> On Mar 30, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: > Which empress??? >>> >>> You mean there's more than one? >> I didn't know any. > > It was a lighthearted reference to Caroline Usher, who likes (also in > a lighthearted way) to style herself "Dowager Empress of the LSA" or > alternatively "Empress of the Known Lute World. In the old country we say that "every joke contains an element of joke." RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Stung again
empress of all flowers ... i fear david may be right in that the preconcieved notions people carry with them can sometimes make it .. the thing itself - seem unrecognizable. can too much information be just as "dangerous" (in a "tree for the forest" situation) as too little? > --- David Rastall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Mar 30, 2007, at 3:57 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: > > > > > Which empress??? > > > > You mean there's more than one? > > > > > Yesterday I taught 2 classes of 19-year olds at > > NYU, invited by a > > > poet-friend who teaches a History of Culture > > course which touches > > > on the > > > "mystification as a literary vehicle". > > > > Interesting. When I was in graduate school it was > > de-mystification. > > Still, that was a long time ago... > > > > > So I was asked to do a presentation > > > on Sautscheckerei, my humble self in the context > > of literary > > > mystification > > > from Descartes, Chatterton, Macpherson, Merimee, > > Musin-Pushkin and > > > other > > > fine individuals > > > Dan Swenberg (of the Rebel Baroque Orchestra et > > al.) helped out > > > with a dozen > > > and a half Sarmaticae et Ruthenicae on the > > Renaissance lute. I > > > played the > > > sautscheckerei myself in the second half- > baroque > > lute settings of and > > > variations on Ukrainian songs, with some > originals > > interspersed, nach > > > Haydnisches Manier, naturlich, as a musical > > equivalent of Merimee's > > > GUZLA. > > > The picaresque aspect of the event also was > > certainly useful. > > > > Very impressive! > > > > > But before > > > Sting came along we would drawn blank stares. > > These kids were > > > genuinely > > > interested. > > > > Because you play "that thing that Sting plays." > Ho! > > Ho! Just > > kidding. Seriously, we're all "mystified" by > > Sting's success. > > > > David Rastall > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > www.rastallmusic.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > > > ___ > > New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive > emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail > Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. > http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk > > ___ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
[LUTE] Re: Stung again
--- David Rastall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Because you play "that thing that Sting plays." Ho! > Ho! Just > kidding. Seriously, we're all "mystified" by > Sting's success. i'm mystified as well but more for the "baggage" that a talented, soulful, so-called "pop" artist is obliged to carry with him from one venue to another. if those who berate "sting" for singing and playing early music were to be suddenly transported back in time to elizabethian london and hear, per chance, someone other than dowland performing one of his compositions in any way different from what we now - in our time - perceive to be "pukkah" ... i wonder what would they say say? i'm sure - absolutely, positively sure - that hank williams "purists" would consider anything i might do to his compositions to be nothing less than a complete travesty. but there are nights - even here in tuscany - when content surpasses any and all concept of form. ___ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Stung again
Probably, but isn't that the ephemeral nature of popular music? Gary - Original Message - From: David Rastall To: gary digman Cc: lutelist Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Stung again On Mar 30, 2007, at 6:41 AM, gary digman wrote: My point is not that he is good, in your girlfriend's sense of the term, but that he is popular, more popular than your girlfriend or I will ever be, and he is using that popularity to introduce a "wider audience" to the lute which is what so many on this list say they want. It's certainly true that Sting has brought the lute to a wider audience, but I wonder how much of that audience will even remember the lute a year from now. On two occasions in the last two months I've heard Sting and his lute described over the media as "Sting and his "f--king lute." Quite possibly the whole Labyrinth thing is beginning to bore people... Sting has created a short-lived sort of parallel universe in which a lute is "that thing that Sting plays." IMO the lute world (or, as our Exhalted Empress would put it: "the known lute world" ;-)) will continue on its course as if Sting never existed. David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.rastallmusic.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.20/736 - Release Date: 3/27/2007 4:38 PM -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Stung again
Dear All, I've read so much about this, I thought I might just contribute a little. As a rather prudish viol and theorbo player, who's very much into authenticity and finding out the truth in music (if ever such thing exists), I find Sting's attempt in Dowland really enjoyable (especially when he sings in tune!). Remember when Nigel Kennedy came into the scene and brought out that really different Vivaldi's Four Seasons? Doesn't anyone else find it strange that his interpretation for that time was probably the most historically-spirited thing that was ever done? He had harpsichord, guitars/lutes, and not to mention all that ornamentation! I will not be surprised if some of those Italian groups such Europa Galante and Giardino Armonico were a little bit inspired by that. So, back to Sting. Mark my words, in time, we will come to some balance in performing Dowland, and we will have (in some part) to thank Sting. In the bigger picture of things, we haven't really performed early music long enough for it to develop, and anyhow, it is in the nature of all things that everything will change! Thanks. Shaun Ng skype: shaunkfng tel: +61 (0)410 820228 msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.shaunng.blogspot.com N.B. Remember how Beethoven symphonies used to sound like before Roger Norrington? On 30/03/2007, at 6:17 PM, gary digman wrote: > Last night Sting's "Songs From the Labyrinth" Great > Performances show finally made it to my local PBS station. Overall > I liked it. Some thoughts did come to mind as I watched it. Sting's > is obviously not a classically trained voice, but that may be what > is called for to "bring this music to a wider audience". I have > heard that classical music amounts to about 3% of the market and > early music is a small fraction of that. So, it seems to me, the > vote is in on classically trained voices. They are not popular. > Sting is, or has been, popular. If one wants to make the lute and > lute music popular, as some have proposed on this list, one must > accept that certain concessions to what is popular will be made. > You can't have your cake and eat it too. If these concessions to > what makes something popular are unacceptable to you, I say, "be > careful what you wish for." Even so, Sting was correct in saying > that his recording of these songs would not be popular in the way > he is use! > d to. I teach general guitar classes at a local community college > and virtually all of the young hotshot rock guitarists taking my > classes who may like the music of Sting and the Police say his > Dowland CD "sucks", and not because it deviates from HIP. And yet > upwards of 500,000 of Sting's fans have purchased the CD, a smash > hit beyond the wildest dreams of Paul O'dette or Hopkinson Smith. > Sting performs this music with great affection and respect. > I think he truly loves these songs and the lute, and I, for one, > applaud him for that. Also, I cannot understand those on this list > who have trashed Edin Karamazov's performance. I found his playing > masterful and impressive. He is a great lutenist. >I think what Sting and Karamazov have done is a marvelous > service to the lute and the music that will be of benefit to us all > in providing more opportunities to play. So, I say, "Carry on, Sting!" > > Gary Digman > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Stung again
David and all:
I think the wider listening public might be catching on to the lute. We
just received the announcement below from a mainstream classical radio
station, who has just selected another of our recordings as a 'Choice CD of
the Month' for April 2007.
'Judging by the all the phone calls weve received, a lot of WCLV listeners
liked the disc Divine Amaryllis from the Mignarda Lutesong Duo; it was one
of our Choice CDs last year. The New York-based duoRon Andrico, lute and
Donna Stewart, mezzo-sopranohas appeared a few times here in Cleveland, and
their newest disc is called, My Lord of Oxenfords Maske.'
[1]http://www.wclv.com/skin/blurb.php?sectionId=176&contentId=378302
The smart radio programmers at classical stations may be getting over the
idea that they must impress their audiences with the standard classical
recorded repertory, and are looking for something fresh. If Sting helped
this process along in any way, I thank him heartily.
Actually, our newest CD was just released this week and it is an homage to
Spinacino and the 500th anniversary of the first printed book of lute
music.We would be pleased if you would check it out
[2]http://www.mignarda.com/cds/
Best wishes,
Ron Andrico & Donna Stewart
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[4]http://www.mignarda.com
__
From: David Rastall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: gary digman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: "lutelist"
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Stung again
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 14:56:12 -0400
>On Mar 30, 2007, at 6:41 AM, gary digman wrote:
>
> > My point is not that he is good, in your girlfriend's sense of the
> > term, but that he is popular, more popular than your girlfriend or
> > I will ever be, and he is using that popularity to introduce a
> > "wider audience" to the lute which is what so many on this list say
> > they want.
>
>It's certainly true that Sting has brought the lute to a wider
>audience, but I wonder how much of that audience will even remember
>the lute a year from now. On two occasions in the last two months
>I've heard Sting and his lute described over the media as "Sting and
>his "f--king lute." Quite possibly the whole Labyrinth thing is
>beginning to bore people...
>
>Sting has created a short-lived sort of parallel universe in which a
>lute is "that thing that Sting plays." IMO the lute world (or, as
>our Exhalted Empress would put it: "the known lute world" ;-)) will
>continue on its course as if Sting never existed.
>
>David Rastall
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>www.rastallmusic.com
>
>
>
>--
>
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
_
[5]Interest Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo -
Calculate new payment
References
1. http://www.wclv.com/skin/blurb.php?sectionId=176&contentId=378302
2. http://www.mignarda.com/cds/
3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
4. http://www.mignarda.com/
5. http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2749??PS=47575
[LUTE] Re: Stung Again
And how long have you been playing in Duluth now Ed? , frankly I think the Minnesota ballet should be ashamed of not having heard this music before Sting released it. Sting may have put Early music on the map for the general population, but it still makes me sick to my stomach that we have been doing this now for 30 years ( it will be 30 years next year since you and I met up at Guitar 78) with hardly any recognition. Bruno On 3/31/07, Edward Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To add to the thread, I was consulted by the Minnesota Ballet today. One > of the company's choreographers contacted & consulted me today about a > dance they are going to do they had heard the Sting album, and met with > me in terms of a dance production. > > It will be a modern dance, with music of Dowland. They were intrigued by > the music, and wanted to learn more about Dowland. > > Ed > > > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- Bruno Cognyl-Fournier Luthiste, etc Estavel Ensemble de musique ancienne www.estavel.org
[LUTE] Re: Stung Again
> And how long have you been playing in Duluth now Ed? , frankly I think > the Minnesota ballet should be ashamed of not having heard this music > before Sting released it. Sting may have put Early music on the map > for the general population, but it still makes me sick to my stomach > that we have been doing this now for 30 years ( it will be 30 years > next year since you and I met up at Guitar 78) with hardly any > recognition. > Bruno Painful it may be to some. But Sting has real Presence, and we should be grateful he used it on Dowland. i.e SOMEONE ELSE'S MATERIAL. The album is a trubute from one composer to another. That's what I call love and respect. RT > > > > > On 3/31/07, Edward Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> To add to the thread, I was consulted by the Minnesota Ballet today. One >> of the company's choreographers contacted & consulted me today about a >> dance they are going to do they had heard the Sting album, and met >> with >> me in terms of a dance production. >> >> It will be a modern dance, with music of Dowland. They were intrigued >> by >> the music, and wanted to learn more about Dowland. >> >> Ed >> >> >> >> >> >> Edward Martin >> 2817 East 2nd Street >> Duluth, Minnesota 55812 >> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> voice: (218) 728-1202 >> >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > > -- > Bruno Cognyl-Fournier > Luthiste, etc > Estavel > Ensemble de musique ancienne > www.estavel.org > > > > _ Need personalized email and website? Look no further. It's easy with Doteasy $0 Web Hosting! Learn more at www.doteasy.com
[LUTE] Re: Stung Again
- Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sunday, April 1, 2007 10:46 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: Stung Again > Painful it may be to some. But Sting has real Presence, and we > should be > grateful he used it on Dowland. i.e SOMEONE ELSE'S MATERIAL. The > album is a > trubute from one composer to another. That's what I call love and > respect.RT While the effort is not necessarily to my personal taste, I wholeheartedly agree with every aspect of this assessment. Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Stung Again
Dear Bruno, It is good to hear from you. In terms of recognition, the lute world, or early music on the whole, is a small part of the field of the classical arts, including drama, dance or the visual arts. In my small town (population of around 100,000), there are many arts organizations, and there is quite a bit happening. Also, the state of Minnesota has a lot happening with the fine arts as well. Just because someone had not heard of me or the lute is not offensive, in my opinion. For example, I know very little of professional sports (except cycling), so there are many name of professional athletes of which I am unaware. I am glad the ballet expressed some interest. I hope all is well, ed At 10:36 AM 4/1/2007 -0400, Bruno Fournier wrote: >And how long have you been playing in Duluth now Ed? , frankly I think >the Minnesota ballet should be ashamed of not having heard this music >before Sting released it. Sting may have put Early music on the map >for the general population, but it still makes me sick to my stomach >that we have been doing this now for 30 years ( it will be 30 years >next year since you and I met up at Guitar 78) with hardly any >recognition. > > >Bruno > > > > >On 3/31/07, Edward Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>To add to the thread, I was consulted by the Minnesota Ballet today. One >>of the company's choreographers contacted & consulted me today about a >>dance they are going to do they had heard the Sting album, and met with >>me in terms of a dance production. >> >> It will be a modern dance, with music of Dowland. They were intrigued by >>the music, and wanted to learn more about Dowland. >> >>Ed >> >> >> >> >> >>Edward Martin >>2817 East 2nd Street >>Duluth, Minnesota 55812 >>e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>voice: (218) 728-1202 >> >> >> >> >>To get on or off this list see list information at >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >-- >Bruno Cognyl-Fournier >Luthiste, etc >Estavel >Ensemble de musique ancienne >www.estavel.org > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/741 - Release Date: 3/31/2007 >8:54 PM Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: Stung Again
> It will be a modern dance, with music of Dowland. To what degree are the historical dances preserved? For example, if the ballet company wanted to stage an authentic reproduction, what resources would be available? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Stung Again
I think that the dances will not preserve aspects of the authentic dance. ed At 01:39 PM 4/1/2007 -0500, Herbert Ward wrote: > > It will be a modern dance, with music of Dowland. > >To what degree are the historical dances preserved? > >For example, if the ballet company wanted to stage an authentic >reproduction, what resources would be available? > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/741 - Release Date: 3/31/2007 >8:54 PM Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
[LUTE] Re: Stung Again
Around Dowland's time there were at least three major treatises on dance: Coroso, Negri, Arbeau, the first two written in lute tab with mensural notation for melodies and often bass lines. They explain how to do the steps and lay out whole dances set to specific music. The dances and steps are open to interpretation in the same way that musicians have different opinions on tempos, ornaments etc. You could probably find much information about it through Google. cheers, On Apr 2, 2007, at 3:39 AM, Herbert Ward wrote: > To what degree are the historical dances preserved? Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Stung Again
All three )Arbeau, Caroso and Negri) are available on-line from the Library of Congress: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/diessay2.html And for Caroso there is Julia Sutton's translation and edition, _Courtly Dance of the Renassnce_ (Dover, 1995), with labanotation for the dance steps.. Some dance steps are shown on video from the LofC: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/divideos.html You, too, can learn how to dance a pavane and galliard, or a quadrille and Schottische ==ajn - Original Message - From: "Ed Durbrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Herbert Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "LuteNet list" Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:20 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Stung Again > Around Dowland's time there were at least three major > treatises on > dance: Coroso, Negri, Arbeau, the first two written in > lute tab with > mensural notation for melodies and often bass lines. > They explain how > to do the steps and lay out whole dances set to > specific music. The > dances and steps are open to interpretation in the > same way that > musicians have different opinions on tempos, ornaments > etc. > You could probably find much information about it > through Google. > cheers, > > On Apr 2, 2007, at 3:39 AM, Herbert Ward wrote: > >> To what degree are the historical dances preserved? > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[LUTE] Re: Stung Again
Yes both Caroso books are avaiable on the LoC site. - Original Message - From: "Katherine Davies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Arthur Ness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Stung Again > Make that four: > Caroso puplished two books, one in 1580, and a second > in 1600 (republished > preiodically until the 1630s). "Nobilta di Dame" calls > itself a 'second > edition' of 'Ballarino', but almost every dance is > either new or much > altered, and some of the steps have changed (the music > is usually the same, > though). > > There are also a raft of less well known dance > manuals, mostly Italian, from > the mid-16th to the early 17thC - Compasso, Lutii, > Lupi, Santucci, De > Lauze, piles of letters, papers, odd MSS with a > hald-dozen dances (such as > the Chigi MS) . . . and on and on. There are even some > sources for English > dancing - the Gresley MS (probably about 1500); and a > pile of MSS related to > the Revels at the Inns of Court (from laet 16th to > mid-17thC), some with > music attached. > > So: Italian dances from the late renaissance are > extremely well documented > (though with some gaps, of course); French dances less > so, but enough that > we have a pretty good idea of what they looked like; > we know little of the > nuances of English dancing (as we have only personal > notes, not didactic > treatises), but more than a dozen intelligible > choreographies survive with > music. And as there were Italian dance-masters all > over Europe, there was > probably Italian dancing all over too. > > For the record: there would be a small but very eager > and appreciative > market amongst early dancers for any lutenist who were > to record Caroso's > and Negri's music with a tempo repeat structure to fit > their choregraphies. > > best wishes, > Katherine Davies > > > On 4/2/07, Arthur Ness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >> All three )Arbeau, Caroso and Negri) are available >> on-line from the Library of >> Congress: >> >> http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/diessay2.html >> >> And for Caroso there is Julia Sutton's translation >> and >> edition, _Courtly Dance of the Renassnce_ (Dover, >> 1995), >> with labanotation >> for the dance steps.. >> >> Some dance steps are shown on video from the LofC: >> >> http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/divideos.html >> >> You, too, can learn how to dance a pavane and >> galliard, >> or a >> quadrille and Schottische >> >> ==ajn >> - Original Message - >> From: "Ed Durbrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Herbert Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >> "LuteNet >> list" >> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:20 PM >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Stung Again >> >> >> > Around Dowland's time there were at least three >> > major >> > treatises on >> > dance: Coroso, Negri, Arbeau, the first two written >> > in >> > lute tab with >> > mensural notation for melodies and often bass >> > lines. >> > They explain how >> > to do the steps and lay out whole dances set to >> > specific music. The >> > dances and steps are open to interpretation in the >> > same way that >> > musicians have different opinions on tempos, >> > ornaments >> > etc. >> > You could probably find much information about it >> > through Google. >> > cheers, >> > >> > On Apr 2, 2007, at 3:39 AM, Herbert Ward wrote: >> > >> >> To what degree are the historical dances >> >> preserved? >> > >> > Ed Durbrow >> > Saitama, Japan >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > To get on or off this list see list information at >> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > >> >> >> >
[LUTE] Re: Stung Again
HI, here is a video of "modern dance" and elizabethan music, Holborne and nor Dowland. http://youtube.com/watch?v=4EuqQ3CI-H4 As often in these sort of things, I tend to find that the "modern" elements seem quite dated and something more "HIP" would have a bit more "attitude". But if you want to get art's council funding it is probably safer to go for something nobody wants. So Dowland meets "modern dance" should get that financial support rolling in :) All the best mark -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
