Re: BBEdit 8.0
I cannot get autocompletion to work with jEdit 4.2 on Panther. Do you have that issue as well? Robert Pete Prodoehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ray Zimmerman wrote: On Sep 9, 2004, at 8:41 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: Effortless transparent handling switching of line endings. Powerful HTML tools Shell worksheets (allows easy editing running of shell commands) Multi-file regular expression find replace functionality, with nameable saveable expressions Transparent FTP/SFTP support Easy scriptability and integration with command line tools And don't forget ... multi-file diff, with side-by-side highlighting (integrated with CVS, too). en-tabbing, de-tabbing re-wrapping text inserting, removing line prefixes/suffixes ... to name just a few more. I'm sure many/most of these things are easily doable by someone who's mastered vi or emacs, but it's the learning curve that's kept me from ever doing that. Of course if you are looking for an editor that covers most/all of these and more, and runs on other platforms, and happens to be open-source, you might want to check out jEdit - http://jedit.org/ - There are at least a few jEdit users who are old-BBEdit users, and there's even a page on switching from BBEdit to jEdit (that could use some updating!) http://community.jedit.org/cgi-bin/TWiki/view/Main/SwitchingFromBBEdit Pete
Re: BBEdit 8.0
I cannot get autocompletion to work with jEdit 4.2 on Panther. Do you have that issue as well? Works here... (10.3.5 and 4.2 final) Bild 1.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document I guess you have checked edit mode = perl in Buffer Options/Global Options? ___ Peter Hartmann mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: BBEdit 8.0 vs JEdit
The Ghost wrote: I'd really like to reiterate the suggestion to try JEdit. It used to have some problems on OS X, but in 4.2 Final they are cleared up. It has everything with the SFTP, multi-file search/replace with regex (better than BBEdit's in IMO), and all that fancy stuff, the only thing it doesn't currently have to my knowledge is the ability to execute a script from the program. However, with it's plugin architecture I believe this will come in the future. Ryan As long as someone brought up jEdit, I'll toss in my 2 cents... You can execute scripts from jEdit, there are a number of ways, using the console plugin, a commando file, a macro, etc... Perhaps the problem is that there are multiple ways of doing things, so there's not the one true way to do something, but asking on the mailing list usually gets you some good answers. A few other nice things about jEdit are: active development, good support, open-source, multi-platform... and if you like to customize, extend, and hack the heck out of your editor, it's ready, willing, and able... Pete
Re: BBEdit 8.0 vs JEdit
On Sep 12, 2004, at 1:32 PM, The Ghost wrote: Other than JEdit, my other choice would be KDE's KATE (K Advance Text Editor). (This may now be Quantra, I don't know). Excellent syntax highlighting control, integrated command line, a nice file browser (good for looking at logs quickly), The only problem is I don't know how to put it on a Mac, but I'm sure it can be done. If anyone knows how to do this or can point me to the right documentation it'd be much appreciated. KATE is available through Fink. I'm not certain what specific package, although kdeutils3 or kdevelop seems likely. sherm--
Re: BBEdit 8.0
At 14:50 +1000 10/9/04, John Horner wrote: Multi-file regular expression find replace functionality, with nameable saveable expressions That's the killer-app feature for me. I could actually say that I think it's BBEdit that gave me my first glimpse of the power of Perl. Also, if you're a Perl BBEdit user and haven't already, check out the BBEdit Help - Grep reference, it is a very useful reference for all the PCRE stuff, especially useful for things in the Advanced Grep Topics section like zero width negative lookbehind assertions (which if you're like me you can never remember what sequence of line noise they might correspond to). BBEdit is a very powerful text editor, but where it really out shines other text editors is its attention to detail (like handling a file being renamed underneath it and updating as the file changes, and such) and the way it handles multiple files (I like the Window palette, but now also with multiple documents per window), especially for things like multifile find replace Enjoy, Peter. -- http://www.stairways.com/ http://download.stairways.com/
Re: BBEdit 8.0
On 10 Sep 2004, at 09:59, Andy Holyer wrote: On 10 Sep 2004, at 02:54, Doug McNutt wrote: At 19:41 -0500 9/9/04, Ian Ragsdale wrote: Shell worksheets (allows easy editing running of shell commands) And there is by far the most important item. When the MacPerl port ran as an MPW tool it looked a whole lot like UNIX perl and you could run it from a command line, with arguments, and redirect output to another open window or to a file. Any open window, if it contained shell commands, could be invoked as a tool by simply naming it. I am told, by my son, that the best replacement for MPW in OS neXt is really emacs but it requires that I learn smalltalk or something similar and, though I have read the book, I just ain't there. X11 isn't that easy to use either with my four monitors. Lisp, actually. You don't really need to know ant coding to use emacs (I don't recall doing any programming at least in the last ten years or so). Then again, I learned to use emacs some time early 1986, so your milage may well vary. The GNU version for OS X which runs windowing is really nice with the one irritation that it uses emacs cut/paste/etc control keys rather than mac ones (so paste is ctrl-y, for example). Before someone pops up with why would they do that? remember most of the emacs control-key bindings date back to the TOPS-10 days, so they probably predate Unix, let alone the Macintosh. --- Andy Holyer, Technical stuff Hedgehog Broadband, 11 Marlborough Place Brighton BN1 1UB 08451 260895 x 241 --- Andy Holyer, Technical stuff Hedgehog Broadband, 11 Marlborough Place Brighton BN1 1UB 08451 260895 x 241
Re: BBEdit 8.0
On Sep 9, 2004, at 5:41 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: Effortless transparent handling switching of line endings. It's the little things that matter, isn't it? You'd almost be able to write-off this feature as trivial until you start dealing with the hassles that line endings from different platforms can cause. Developing in a mixed platform environment can be a real nightmare. I do all my Perl scripting in BBEdit on OS X, almost exclusively, primarily to avoid issues with line endings. My boss works on a Windows machine and occasionally has to alter my scripts there (or data files associated with them) forgetting sometimes that Notepad will change the line breaks to DOS style which causes the script to fail online. He occasionally comments that he wishes there were something on Windows like BBEdit. I've done a lot of searching and a lot of asking around, but have yet to find such a thing. Is there a text editor (preferably something simple) on Windows that allows you to deal with line breaks the way BBEdit does? --Rick Anderson The only difference between me and a madman, is that I am not mad. -- Salvador Dali
Re: BBEdit 8.0
Good evening, On 9/9/04 at 3:06 PM -0400, Sherm Pendley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Safari and reload the page. I can configure Console.app to automagically pop itself to the front of the window stack whenever anything gets appended to Apache's (or some other) error log. Then you may also be interested in Tailer+. It simply tails a log file (can do so with ssh too) but it also highlights and strips lines based on criteria such as a regex. I find it great for getting to just the data I want to see in apache error logs. After Affrus and BBEdit, it's one of the most useful tools in my arsenal. Charlie -- Charlie Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] PO Box 141, Windsor, NSW 2756, Australia
Re: BBEdit 8.0
Ray Zimmerman wrote: On Sep 9, 2004, at 8:41 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: Effortless transparent handling switching of line endings. Powerful HTML tools Shell worksheets (allows easy editing running of shell commands) Multi-file regular expression find replace functionality, with nameable saveable expressions Transparent FTP/SFTP support Easy scriptability and integration with command line tools And don't forget ... multi-file diff, with side-by-side highlighting (integrated with CVS, too). en-tabbing, de-tabbing re-wrapping text inserting, removing line prefixes/suffixes ... to name just a few more. I'm sure many/most of these things are easily doable by someone who's mastered vi or emacs, but it's the learning curve that's kept me from ever doing that. Of course if you are looking for an editor that covers most/all of these and more, and runs on other platforms, and happens to be open-source, you might want to check out jEdit - http://jedit.org/ - There are at least a few jEdit users who are old-BBEdit users, and there's even a page on switching from BBEdit to jEdit (that could use some updating!) http://community.jedit.org/cgi-bin/TWiki/view/Main/SwitchingFromBBEdit Pete
Re: BBEdit 8.0
Seeing as this has devolved into an editor love-fest, rather than curse the darkness and that weird gas odor, I'll light a candle brighten things a bit more. (Or mangle metaphors, or something. I'll stop now.) I've been putting a copy of SubEthaEdit on all the Macs at work for a while now, but none of them seemed to use it until recently -- they were all just using BBEdit. But then someone noticed the networking abilities in SEE, and they've quickly started using it for collaborating on documents, interacting with people elsewhere in the office or over the internet, or even as a weird, hyperactive chat framework. I don't know of any other editor, on any platform, that can do the clever networking tricks that SubEthaEdit provides. You can have an arbitrary number of users simultaneously making multiple edits to a document with an indepentend insertion point into that document for each user, and everything happens live as everyone types. This can obviously get pretty chaotic, but as long as people follow a little bit of decorum (don't carelessly mess with each other's edits) then it isn't too bad. In theory it should be possible to get other editors hooked into the protocol that SEE uses, so that real editors like Vim, Emacs, and BBEdit can participate, but for now and for the foreseeable future, this capability is only available in SEE. That alone makes it worth using. Aside from that, it's a solid but mostly standard editor. It does things like automatic syntax highlighting and preservation of indent level (i.e. it will carry over from the previous line, but doesn't seem to have magic for increasing or decreasing at block boundaries); it can provide a web formatted version of HTML code; it provides regex search replace capabilities; and it has some kind of support for managing changes to a document, though I haven't played with this feature. Learn more here: http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/ -- Chris Devers
Re: BBEdit 8.0
Is there a text editor (preferably something
simple) on Windows that allows you to deal with line breaks the way
BBEdit does?
UltraEdit does a fine job:
http://www.ultraedit.com/
-Steve
--
#! /usr/bin/perl -w
my @wish = qw/60 47 98 117 115 104 62/;
foreach (@wish) {
print chr($_);
};
Re: BBEdit 8.0
Hi Ken, I have been using emacs in one window and a terminal in another window to run the command line. I tried what you say and the control-z works to suspend emacs, but I can't seem to get the .login to work to pop me back into emacs. Does .login work when you start a new terminal window, or do I need to logout of my user id? Joe. On Sep 9, 2004, at 10:34 PM, Ken Williams wrote: text, and when I want to run commands I hit control-z and run a perl one-liner, or a 'wc' command, or whatever. Then, since I have bindkey ^Z run-fg-editor in my .login file, I just hit control-z again to drop me back into my editor. I almost never use emacs' shell integration, or write lisp functions, because I find the parent shell a more powerful tool. And this way I g
Re: BBEdit 8.0
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:13:43 -0700, Steve Axthelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a text editor (preferably something simple) on Windows that allows you to deal with line breaks the way BBEdit does? UltraEdit does a fine job: http://www.ultraedit.com/ ...where fine is defined as allows you to accidentally create documents with many different kinds of line endings and has a jump-to-function feature for perl scripts that is so buggy that it's nearly useless. I was not impressed when I used it. It's not even in the same galaxy as BBEdit. -John
Re: BBEdit 8.0
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:13:43 -0700, Steve Axthelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: UltraEdit does a fine job: http://www.ultraedit.com/ It does, but I prefer TextPad (http://www.textpad.com), if only for the fact that it's the only text editor I've ever seen that handles line wrapping in The Way It Should Be Done By Everybody. :-) I believe it's also slightly cheaper than UltraEdit (both TextPad and UltraEdit are $15-$20 cheaper than the BBEdit 8.0 *upgrade* price, and are every bit as good - market forces maybe, but if you have a Windows license knocking around it's *cheaper* to buy VPC and one of these puppies than it is to buy BBEdit on its own -- *plus* you get the capabilities to run x86-based operating systems). Thanks for everyone's comments, by the way. Text editors are the new religion, honestly ;-)
Re: BBEdit 8.0
At 11:37 PM -0500 9/2/04, Bill Stephenson wrote: Those BBEdit guys went and implemented another of my wish list feature requests! Remember the one about a button that allowed you to view output from a perl script in a browser? It's apparently in 8.0, as well as some other pretty cool new features. They also mention integration with Affrus. I tried out a demo a while back but haven't kept up on it. Anyone here using Affrus on a regular basis? Bill Stephenson I was using it. Liked it a lot, but it is currently incompatible with the version of Mac OS that I am running. If you are at Mac OSX 10.3.x I would recommend it, even though I have not been able to use it in several months. -Chuck-
Re: BBEdit 8.0
On Sep 3, 2004, at 12:37 AM, Bill Stephenson wrote: Those BBEdit guys went and implemented another of my wish list feature requests! Remember the one about a button that allowed you to view output from a perl script in a browser? It's apparently in 8.0, as well as some other pretty cool new features. With Mac OS X, I have a real Apache install to work with. I can edit CGI scripts and mod_perl handlers in-place, and simply cmd-tab to Safari and reload the page. I can configure Console.app to automagically pop itself to the front of the window stack whenever anything gets appended to Apache's (or some other) error log. I haven't looked at the whole feature list, but this one particular feature sounds like it's too late to be useful. All by itself, it would have been worth the upgrade price five years ago, when I was using BBEdit 5 on Mac OS 8.6. But now... why should I switch to using a CGI simulation, when the Real Thing (tm) is installed by default with the OS, and so smoothly integrated into the environment? sherm--
Re: BBEdit 8.0
On Sep 3, 2004, at 12:37 AM, Bill Stephenson wrote: Those BBEdit guys went and implemented another of my wish list feature requests! Remember the one about a button that allowed you to view output from a perl script in a browser? It's apparently in 8.0, as well as some other pretty cool new features. On Sep 9, 2004, at 2:06 PM, Sherm Pendley wrote: With Mac OS X, I have a real Apache install to work with. I can edit CGI scripts and mod_perl handlers in-place, and simply cmd-tab to Safari and reload the page. I can configure Console.app to automagically pop itself to the front of the window stack whenever anything gets appended to Apache's (or some other) error log. I haven't looked at the whole feature list, but this one particular feature sounds like it's too late to be useful. All by itself, it would have been worth the upgrade price five years ago, when I was using BBEdit 5 on Mac OS 8.6. But now... why should I switch to using a CGI simulation, when the Real Thing (tm) is installed by default with the OS, and so smoothly integrated into the environment? sherm-- Well, first off, I just think it's cool that they implemented a feature I requested. But beyond that, it's still cool because it does use the built-in apache/perl to accomplish this and it does so with a few less clicks (I think, I haven't used it yet) than what you describe above. BTW, I just figured out yesterday that you could monitor the Apache error_log with the Console. That's a handy thing to know about. I've been using the Terminal to tail the log file all this time :( Bill
Re: BBEdit 8.0
On Sep 9, 2004, at 5:00 PM, Chris Carline wrote: I'm curious as to the attraction of BBEdit. Coming from a Unix/Windows background, I find that whilst it seems pretty solid and has some nice features, it costs at least five times more than any sane person should be prepared to pay. But even taking that into account, it actually seems to do *less* (at least for me!) than the free alternatives that ship by default on OS X (personally, I use Vim). I know vim, but not super well - what does it do that BBEdit does not? I imagine if you already know vi/vim well and have it customized to your liking, there's no need to pay for anything else. Personally, I've been using it off on for about 10 years and still don't know how to use most of it's features. Most of the time when I have advanced processing to do I copy the file locally and edit using BBEdit. OK, so its integration into the enitre OS is generally a lot better than the free stuff, but... Well, for Mac users that's a huge distinction, especially if you don't already know vi or emacs. There isn't really any learning curve to deal with. So why the attraction? Is it really only old OS =9 users that use it, or am I really missing something? Well, I imagine a lot of it's following started during the OS = 9 days, when things like vi or emacs weren't really available. It also served as a replacement for things like grep and sed which weren't available at the time. I'd imagine that for many people it's the interface - you can accomplish a ton of things that are doable with command line tools but that most people don't know how to do. Here are some of the things I find really useful: Effortless transparent handling switching of line endings. Powerful HTML tools Shell worksheets (allows easy editing running of shell commands) Multi-file regular expression find replace functionality, with nameable saveable expressions Transparent FTP/SFTP support Easy scriptability and integration with command line tools Ian
Re: BBEdit 8.0
On Sep 9, 2004, at 8:41 PM, Ian Ragsdale wrote: Well, I imagine a lot of it's following started during the OS = 9 days, when things like vi or emacs weren't really available. It also served as a replacement for things like grep and sed which weren't available at the time. I'd imagine that for many people it's the interface - you can accomplish a ton of things that are doable with command line tools but that most people don't know how to do. Here are some of the things I find really useful: Effortless transparent handling switching of line endings. Powerful HTML tools Shell worksheets (allows easy editing running of shell commands) Multi-file regular expression find replace functionality, with nameable saveable expressions Transparent FTP/SFTP support Easy scriptability and integration with command line tools And don't forget ... multi-file diff, with side-by-side highlighting (integrated with CVS, too). en-tabbing, de-tabbing re-wrapping text inserting, removing line prefixes/suffixes ... to name just a few more. I'm sure many/most of these things are easily doable by someone who's mastered vi or emacs, but it's the learning curve that's kept me from ever doing that. Ray
Re: BBEdit 8.0
At 19:41 -0500 9/9/04, Ian Ragsdale wrote: Shell worksheets (allows easy editing running of shell commands) And there is by far the most important item. When the MacPerl port ran as an MPW tool it looked a whole lot like UNIX perl and you could run it from a command line, with arguments, and redirect output to another open window or to a file. Any open window, if it contained shell commands, could be invoked as a tool by simply naming it. I am told, by my son, that the best replacement for MPW in OS neXt is really emacs but it requires that I learn smalltalk or something similar and, though I have read the book, I just ain't there. X11 isn't that easy to use either with my four monitors. BBEdit worksheets are still fairly new and I really hope they will migrate more and more closely to either MPW or emacs. As of now even emacs is not a real shell having to pass commands to the user's chosen shell. That makes handling the environment a pain just as it is in BBEdit. Each open document has its own associated shell process which doesn't talk to the others. MPW was a shell, of sorts, but the underlying operating system didn't have shells so the point is moot. As of version 8 you cannot save a working BBEdit worksheet as an executable perl script. You must first convert to a normal BBEdit document and save that while adding the appropriate shebang line and executable permission bits. (Yes. you can muck with OS 9 file type and creator codes but it's not approved.) It is so much easier to select a few lines of text and execute them than it is to play keyboard games with history arrays. . . I wax happy about the concept but I miss OS 9 and MPW. BBEdit is the best choice right now. Every once in a while there is a burst of activity requesting a Carbon version of MPW. Should Apple decide to release the source code and provide some kernel hooks for intercepting read and write requests from compiled code it could become a real open-source competitor but BBEdit could easily beat it out by incorporating selected content from tcsh, or bash, so that BBEdit itself becomes a real boy -- er, a shell -- rather than a wooden one with a long nose.. -- -- Halloween == Oct 31 == Dec 25 == Christmas --
Re: BBEdit 8.0
On Sep 9, 2004, at 8:54 PM, Doug McNutt wrote: I am told, by my son, that the best replacement for MPW in OS neXt is really emacs but it requires that I learn smalltalk or something similar and, though I have read the book, I just ain't there. X11 isn't that easy to use either with my four monitors. I think there are a few mismatches in that paragraph. I think MPW is most analogous to the shell itself, not to emacs. I'm a happy longtime power-user of emacs, though I've never taught myself Lisp (which is what you meant to say, not Smalltalk). I just use emacs for editing the text, and when I want to run commands I hit control-z and run a perl one-liner, or a 'wc' command, or whatever. Then, since I have bindkey ^Z run-fg-editor in my .login file, I just hit control-z again to drop me back into my editor. I almost never use emacs' shell integration, or write lisp functions, because I find the parent shell a more powerful tool. And this way I get the environment benefits you mentioned too. I'm not sure why X11 got mentioned there either, since you can use emacs the shell without X11 (it's probably been months since I used X11 under OS X). When I'm working with text that's heavily structured, like code or delimited data files, I usually plunge into the shell emacs. For other stuff I usually fire up BBEdit. Getting comfortable with both is really handy. =) -Ken
Re: BBEdit 8.0
Multi-file regular expression find replace functionality, with nameable saveable expressions That's the killer-app feature for me. I could actually say that I think it's BBEdit that gave me my first glimpse of the power of Perl. I use BBEdit literally every day for both HTML and Perl. It's got a nice plug-in architecture for compiled things like BBTidy, HTML tidying specially compiled for BBEdit, http://www.denison.edu/websrv/tutorials/tools/bbTidy.html, but I do Perl tidying via it's unix script architecture, whereby you can just add PerlTidy to a certain folder and then access that script from a menu. P.S. The science fiction author Cory Doctorow wrote on a blog the other day that he's written all his *novels* in BBEdit, which seems rather strange to me, but what the hell, it's another note in its favour.
