[Marxism] God !

[DW]

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I think Dan and Manuel's contributions are relatively 'flat'. I think they
express  and define god-belief fairly accurately by miss a potentially
bigger picture. They *assume* and I certainly infer, that they think
god-belief is the reason people are hooked into religion. Certainly that it
true for some. And certainly many in some religions feel that way or members
of these  religions define themselves by the centrality of believing in god.
However, I think such an analysis is relatively useless, dogmatic and while
somewhat factually correct, hardly explains a thing. In fact, I think they
'cast' blame *at* the belief in god (for much of the worlds problems, maybe)
rather than, well, let's just say those without sin should cast the first
stones: the failure of the workers movement to build a strong secular
*alternative* to religion.

I work with co-workers who are often very religious. What organized religion
does is not offer only a way for people to express their beliefs (or
misbeliefs?) but is much more than that. Above all it provides a form of
*community* lacking in our class due to the demise of class consciousness,
the unions and secular left in general over the last 60 years or so. It's
offers gathering places, a place of peace and or solace, it provides a
*spiritual* uplifting for many (not in the 'god' sense but 'spirit' as
defined as strong feeling of well being among those sharing a common goal)
that in Europe, or parts of Latin America is or was expressed by the
socialist and revolutionary movements. One does not have to read Gramsci to
understand this. Until class consciousness can develop again through a live,
dynamic labor movement, such discussions over the religion tend to be
abstractions will little real outcome one way or another.

Thus Dan and Manual have a misplaced resentment, it seems to me, toward
*individuals* (and leftist who fail to take up their crusade) who hold
non-materialist points of view as if simply *winning the argument* will
determine the outcome of what people believe in. I would hold this view, if
I have it correctly, is totally devoid of a materialist understanding of the
role religion *and* god-belief plays in individual lives. It a form of
mechanical-materialism that provides no answers  and no direction toward
getting workers involved in the class struggle. In fact, I see their POV
more as an *obstacle* to winning workers toward not only action around
common class demands but even toward revolutionary Marxism.

First and foremost is meeting and organizing around those common class
interests wouldn't you say?  If you argue the issue of god at every
opportunity, you do nothing but alienate those that would be willing to meet
you in struggle against the bosses interests. This is why I think Dan, most
notably, probably doesn't follow through on what he says others should do,
except here on the internet. When we are engaged in a fight, does it really
make a difference in the fight on the barricades, the picket line or at a
mass meeting what it is that motivates those that are there? Seriously?

>From my own experience, I know people with the weirdest beliefs who have had
my back and are by no means leftists but know which side of the class line
they stand for. We discuss god, gods and godesses *after* the fight. Over
beer. Amongst friends.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Why Tunisia's Revolution Is Islamist-Free

[DW]

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If you read the BBC article today, just the opposite appears to be
happening, no unity, except on the streets, against the 'natioanl unity
gov't'. The 3 union ministers resigned today, demanding exclusion of the
former ruling party hacks. The ruling class, I would argue, is quite divided
over what to do. This is why it's a revolutionary situation in part.

Secondly, the "Islamists" as they are called there, which were smashed by
the Ali government, those in exile, are all flying back today and tomorrow.
Expect a wing of the ruling class to look to them to 'restore order'.

The NYT piece posted by Louis notes that the middleclass has withdrawn some
from the protests...replaced by "more working class" demonstrators.

David

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Re: [Marxism] The right to bear arms, (on terms).

[DW]

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Mark is certainly right and proves that 'context is everything'. Like the
term "middle class" reduced in terms of the reality of middle "income" as if
income alone defines class, so too do the terms "left" and "right". Even
"socialist" is getting abused like it never has in the past.

This is why I could appreciate Juan's comments. He wasn't writing to us on
Marxmail, but to people to "his right" who are liberal dems, clearly. Thus
one has to adopt the language of these types in order to be understood.
Interestingly, and for no other reason that I was board...I engaged some
pretty conservative gun owners back in 2007 over their use of the term
"collectivist" to describe...Hillary Clinton. It was one of these sort of
parallel universe discussions where everyone that is even for the most mild
tax on something is somehow the misbegotten child of Karl Marx and Pol Pot.

So...yeah...terms like "left" and "right" certainly have been misused and
morphed beyond all recognition (but Marxists, anyway).

David

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Re: [Marxism] Algerian and Tunisian riots,

[DW]

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[Statement by the Workers Party (PT) of Algeria. It lead the movement to
reverse the privatization of the oil industry forcing the government to
re-nationalize petroleum there. It is the largest opposition party in
Algeria.--David W.]

The Secretariat of the Political Bureau of the Workers Party (PT) met today
and put aside all other matters to discuss the extension of the riots of
outraged youth against the soaring prices that particularly have hit sugar
and oil as well as the products based on these commodities.

The secretariat of the Political Bureau is scandalized by the plans of the
Cevital Co. -- which has a virtual-monopoly on sugar and fats -- to add fuel
to the fire by announcing further increases, pending the decisions of the
Government Council.

We strongly denounce the criminal speculation on prices, which constitutes a
real political and social provocation. We call on the government to take
urgent measures to address this situation.

The Workers Party believes that this dangerous situation is the direct
result of the closing of the EPE [State-run] agri-food sector, due to the
Structural Adjustment Plans and privatizations as well as the disengagement
of the State from domestic and foreign trade. The solutions to stop the
speculation consist of the following:

1. An immediate price cap on the concerned products, namely oil and sugar.
2. The restoration of a provisional State monopoly on foreign trade so that
external and internal price controls can be effective.

3. The reopening of large public State-run agricultural enterprises
dedicated to producing subsidized products.

Full:
http://www2.socialistorganizer.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=420&Itemid=1

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[Marxism] ¡Feliz año nuevo!

[DW]

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http://www.marxists.org/espanol/index.htm

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Re: [Marxism] True Grit follow-up

[DW]

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Actually, there was an interesting character relationship between the *John*"
*Jack*" *Langrishe character played by Brian Cox as a travelling actor and
main protagonist,**  *and Al Swearengen with the clear homosexual innuendo
that was quite ... obvious.*. . as having some sort of relationship prior to
meeting up, again, in Deadwood.

David
*

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Re: [Marxism] True Grit follow-up

[DW]

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I was an early booster of Deadwood and participated in the internet campaign
slamming HBO for canceling the series (they admit if was their biggest
mistake ever).

The language of course was a big part of this show. It was liberally
fictionalized with modern contemporary  (vulgar, profane, pornographic,
etc), terms often interspersed  into the 19th Century linguistics spoken
more in a Shakespearean sort of dialogue than  Victorian. I thought this is
what made the diolague so outstanding, in that the scenes were often
written, and delivered, as the kind of dialogue one may of heard delivered
at the Globe Theatre as opposed to American TV. What added to all this was
the basic historical accuracy of the characters involved...not the way they
were portrayed...that was fictional...but the actual course of the story arc
which, while 'interpreted' by the writers, played out pretty much in real
life...and death.

I highly recommend that people on this list rent the DVDs of this
remarkable, well acted, totally fascinating series.

David

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Re: [Marxism] True Grit

[DW]

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A smallish pointMark made a comment about the Texas Rangers being the
foot soldiers of the Civil War for Texas' contribution to the Confederate
cause. While this is true...they did enlist...there were likely very few of
'em. At least as reconstituted after Reconstruction, their Charter limited
the total force to 100. Could there of been more before this time? I don't
now. Seems unlikely. To this day there are only supposedly 144 of them
according the Wiki entry on them. So I doubt they played an altogether
significant role for the slavers during the War.

When I was working in Waco 10 years ago, I asked, naively, to some of my
fellow workers, if the Texas Rangers were in essence, the "state police."
They said no, there is a State Police but the Rangers are not them. They
described the Rangers as simply "bad-ass" version of state cops. I
responded... 'What do you mean? They are tougher or better trained?". They
said to me, "nope, they can violate your civil rights whenever they feel
like it and get away with it...". They didn't seem particularly well liked
by these guys.

David

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[Marxism] Cuban medics in Haiti put world to shame

[DW]

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Thank you Louis for posting this article. It is one of the most inspiring
I've ever seen on Cuban health care missions. From a capitalist daily, no
less. Well done.

I might add that there is a small passing sentence on Cuban eye doctors. It
is a fate of history that Cuba has what are considered some of the best eye
doctors in the world (Interestingly, El Salvador has some excellent eye
doctors as well) as the historical 'residue' of the collapse of the USSR.

The USSR pioneered eye surgery and ended up with developing the radical
procedure that actually corrects eye vision for people who are near-sided.
This surgery, called keratectomy laid the ground work for Lasik, a procedure
I had to that corrected by 20/400 visions to 20/20. The Cubans had a
contingent of eye surgery students in Russia throughout the 1960s and 1970s
when the Russians developed the original procedures for this form of sight
correction, an outgrowth of general cataract surgery.

Instead of focusing on keratectomy, they focused on what was an endemic
problem in poor and developing countries: cataracts. Now they are the worlds
leading teachers of, and surgeons in, cataract removal.

David

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Re: [Marxism] True Grit? Humbug....a response.

[DW]

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Ah...a real discussion, excellent.

I'm curious as to this point made by Louis "...fully-formed 35 word
sentences". Well, of course, a good monologue is fun regardless of it's
accuracy if it is well deliveredand these 35 plus word sentences
certainly were...my question, to Mark perhaps as the discussion historians
(nice point about the "Missouri charge" BTW) was over the lack of use of
contractions in speaking. I notice that in a lot of renditions of the
period, Westerns, movies taking place in the 19th Century, *especially* as
they were spoken by women, that they never seemed to use contractions unless
they were Calamity Jane types. This what made the Matti Ross character's
long winded diatribes during the negotiations scene so cool...not "ain't" or
"can't" or "won't". Is this at all historically accurate, linguistically
speaking?

David

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Re: [Marxism] True Grit? Humbug....a response.

[DW]

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When I saw version I of True Grit I liked it immensely never having seen
John Wayne play someone not 10 feet tall and altogether altruistic...even in
the Green Berets, the pro-war, a-historical nonsense fable of the role of
the Special Forces in Vietnam, it was a laughable role. I was also about 13
when that came out. I always thought the condensation toward Wayne from
Hollywood was for his role in the Shootist, played opposite Kathleen
Hepburn, where Wayne truly played his cancer-ridden self. Interestingly,
Wayne converted to Catholicism on his death bed. Odd, that.

Having read the original novel "True Grit" this version was closer, it
seemed, to the novel than the first version with Wayne. It
was...grittier...to say the least, being more Coen brothers than Disney,
which the Wayne movie was with the sappy music. I thought Hailee Steinfeld's
performance was as good as it could be from a 14 year old actor. She stole
the show, quite honestly, and did so far better than Kim Darby's version of
the Ross girl. Her bargaining with a horse trader in town is almost worth
seeing the movie for this reason alone.

Though no fault of his own, the Lebouf character played by Matt Dameon was,
IMO, terrible...never quite establishing what the 'character' of the
character was supposed to be. He seemed poorly directed by whatever Coen
brother was in charge that day. Glen Cambell actually played him better in
1969 that Damon, a real actor, played him in this film.

I also thought it rather cheap (as in cheap laughs) the Cogburn's
character's rough treatment of the Native American kids sitting out in front
of the house that Louis describes in his review. Racist? Probably. True to
character? Absolutely. Louis, however, fails to explain Cogburn's anger at
these children in his review: they were torturing a horse with sharp stick
as he and Matty rode up on them. I suspect his attitude toward this kids
would be the same had they been white.

Unlike Louis, I go into any movie with the view of watching the film of what
the movie *itself* is trying to show me, with little expectations, and as
little prejudice as possible. I couldn't care less, nor would I let it color
my view of a movie because of the *politics* of the actor involved. I loved
the Jesse Stone mini-series of detective shows on CBS despite Tom Selleck's
pimping for National Review and Ronald Reagan. Don't care. Never will.

Lastly, I don't even own a DVD player. I see movies the way they were meant
to be seen: on a BIG screen, with lots of people in the theatre. I know
Louis is a kind of "professional" online movie reviewer, gets free movies in
the mail (he once wrote here) and envy him for that, in a way. But I
remember the discussion around Avatar and couldn't help but wonder, never
did ask, if he watched this in the theatre or at home? Movies, *especially*
Westerns, should be seen on big movie screens.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Hatchet job on Venezuela

[DW]

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What's the "Hatchet" part? How much is true, over-emphasized, singled out,
etc? I don't know. it would be good to have someone on the ground there
write an analysis of these new laws and how it will effect democratic rights
there, how they will advance the revolution...or hold it back. I'm hoping
Fred Fuentes or someone from Links will post something. They may have
already but I may of missed it.

David

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[Marxism] Battleship Potemkin!

[DW]

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Re-release of the uncensored, unmodified film. Seems to be remastered as
well. Trailer:

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/independent/battleshippotemkin/

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Re: [Marxism] Che Assange

[DW]

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A! Fuck, that was scary. The second one, though, is at least funny with
a touch of irony thrown in. But that first one? AHH!

David

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[Marxism] ETOL & Riazinov Library looking for back issues of...

[DW]

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We're actively in the process of preparing a professional quality
digital archive of the periodicals (and some pamphlets) of early to mid
20ieth
century North American Trotskyist organizations. This is to be made
available to all
via one or more web sites (we are affiliated currently with the ETOL on
marxists.org) and likely thru at cost distribution of the material on DVDs.

Although a number of major research libraries have the source material we
require, none of those allow digital scanning of the sort that produces the
ultra high quality results that meet our standards and facilitate creating
useful optical character recognition text after scanning is done. For that
we
need to use our own scanners and copiers, and this is not permitted at any
research library.

So we have been forced to acquire the source materials for this archive for
ourselves, and at our own expense. We have budgeted a number of thousands of
dollars for this.

We'd GREATLY appreciate YOUR assistance, if you can provide it, with getting
us
access to the following documents:

Greenwood Reprints of:

The Militant 1928 - 1934

The New Militant 1934 - 1935

Young Spartacus 1931 - 1935

Labor Action 1940 - 1958

[we have the Chicago Socialist Appeal journal as a Greenwood reprint]

[we have the complete set of New International Greenwood reprints from the
20's
through the 50's]

We'd be interested EITHER in buying copies of these items listed above from
you
OR in your lending us your copy so we can make scans or photocopies of it.
If
you were willing to loan to us your copy, I could fly out to personally take
it
from your hands, and fly back a week or two later to personally hand deliver
it
to you, to ensure nothing ill happens to it from the time it leaves your
possession to the time it returns to your possession.

In cases of material that is in broadside size page format (17 x 23 inch
pages),
a loan would not work for us, for we need to unbind broadside volumes and
get
single sheet pages in order to get the high quality scans required by this
project. This is not the case for any other page size (tabloid 11 x 17 or
smaller). THOSE we can (in most cases) scan effectively at high quality
without
having to unbind the volume, because THOSE can fit on the glass surface of a
flat bed scanner.

ALSO:

If you own bound volumes or relatively complete runs of loose issues of
original
editions of:

The Militant from the 1930's, 40's, 50's, or 60's

Labor Action from the 40's and 50's

Socialist Appeal broadside (17 x 23 inch) size newspaper from 1937 - 1941
(published in New York City, and a different publication from the 9 x 12
inch
journal by the same name that was published in Chicago 1934 - 1936)

Fourth International

We are prepared to pay... VERY
GENEROUSLY... for material needed by the project which donors wish to
relinquish.

Note that we have spent some thousands of dollars already on the MICROFILM
(35mm
reel film) archives of much of this material, purchasing it primarily from
the
Wisconsin Historical Society, and in part from the University of Washington.
We
wish to in particular comment on how outstandingly kind and prompt and
profession was the Wisconsin Historical Society in completing my requests
for
duplication and shipment to us of a large number of reels of microfilm.
Although
we have now an extensive microfilm library of these periodicals, we are
trying
to get hold of either originals or Greenwood Reprints, because those yield
higher quality scans.

Please, if you can, help us provide the workers' movement with free, ultra
high
quality, comprehensive access to its own past experience in its early years.

Thank you.

Please contact:
martygood...@sbcglobal.net

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Re: [Marxism] Brazil would recognize a Palestinian UDI,

[DW]

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Nestor is, formally, correct. I was projecting. However, we are, and have
been for a decade or more, in something of a 'transitional' phase for many
of these Brazil-like economies. S. Korea stands out, as well, China, in it's
own way, for sure, that are beginning to behave "a little" like Imperialist
countries, most notably in their export of capital. S. Artesian's earlier
point on this is not without merit. It's an interesting thread for
discussion.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Brazil would recognize a Palestinian UDI,

[DW]

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The term "Client State" is a bit in-exact. I think after the US supported
coup in 1964, Brazil most likely a 'client state', which is true in many
respects for most countries undergoing a US supported coup. But in terms of
political economy, no, I wouldn't say that. Not that it didn't enjoy a
neo-colonial relationship, especially vis-a-vis the dollar and, US controls
of Brazilian exports to the US.

A client state is a state like Bosnia or Kosovo today, one where the entire
politics of the country is run by the US Embassy. Nothing happens without
the US' "OK".  The state *depends* on the US as opposed to only be
influenced by it. Brazil is fast becoming a little, or not so little,
Imperialist state all it's own, or *so it seems*. At least the capitalists
there would like that to be the case.

David

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[Marxism] Marxist North Korea embraced again by China and Russia (intelligent comment please)

[DW]

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Paul,
 I would argue that N. Korea is NOT nuclear armed. Being able to set off a
nuclear device is not the same as a weaponized nuclear bomb...one you can
deliver to your enemy. They *may* have this, but again, there is little
evidence for it, right now.

David

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[Marxism] A shockingly bad movie

[DW]

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I suspect it got "87%" because everyone who went to see it, including the
critics, like it so much. I did not go see it because I hate 'dream movies'
(same with time loop movies, can't stand 'em) although I see almost all
science-fiction films out there (the "B movie" was essentially applied to
1950s sci-fi movies playing second billing at the local one-show movie
house).

A REALLY BAD movie is "Skyline". It was SO bad, that I actually walked out
about 3/4 of the way through. I almost never do that. A movie like this is
bad from it's own perceptive. It fails to deliver on and expected promise
(Aliens invade LA, kill & eat everyone, The End). B movies *can* work if it
doesn't pretend to be something they are not, like 'profound' 'insightful'
'creative' etc. Skyline fails at every level (not to mention shitty actors
who are mostly castoffs from B TV shows in this case).

A worthwhile B movie is sort of like "Faster" with The Rock in the starting
role. He utters, maybe, 10 full sentences from start to finish, uses a .357
magnum revolver and *that is what you expect* so it works from the first
second to the last. Plus an interesting plot twist thrown in. I always go to
first showings so I can pay half prices and never feel really ripped off.

An "A movie" that is a failed "B movie" is "3 Days" with quite a good
professional acting line-up starting with Russel Crowe who, finally, has his
American accent down to where it's not a distraction. It was also filmed in
Pittsburgh, PA. Any movie "shot on location" always a good sign (except, of
course, if it's shot in L.A. the entire city of which LOOKS like a studio
backlot). Unfortunately this 'break innocent person out of prison' film
fails, is very long winded and loses sight of itself about the angst of
having an innocent spouse/friend/buddy incarcerated for a crime they didn't
commit. I say skip it.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Real issues in threats to N. Kore, [random thoughts on all this]

[DW]

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Fred, thanks for posting this. It seems the Militant squirms a bit here.
Since the 'first shot' was fired by the DPRK, as that country noted in it's
declaration, it's hard to argue the 'provocation' was a justifiable reason
to start shooting, knowing only what I do from the media. Did it have the
indended effect on the ROK? Unless the DPRK wanted a closer shot at starting
a war, then yes, it did.

Secondly, now the US, hitherto *abstaining* from these troop maneuvers, is
sending it a truncated air-craft carrier battle group to *back up* the ROK
forces. Seems the DPRK actions only had the intention of bringing direct US
intervention there on a higher level. I think this is a bad thing, not a
good thing.

Thirdly, the ROK forces are NOT commanded by the US. This is false. ROK
forces are "independent" within in the parameter of US-ROK relations, albeit
they always have US military observers as "consultants".

My thoughts on this:

Interestingly, the "pro-smash-DPRK" Republicans want the US *out* of the ROK
for the moment. They want a military response by the S. Korean forces who
are at least several generations ahead of the North in military hardware and
technique (despite being outnumbered by them about 3 to 1 across the board).
Chuck Devore, the Orange County, CA Tea-Party Republican Assemblyman is
advocating this on his blog as are a few others. They see it essentially as
an "Israel vs Egypt" scenario, circa 1967. They see a US presence for the
moment as one of *hindering* the South in a "response" to the North.
Probably aimed at Obama believing, falsely, that Obama would take a softer
approach. DeVores view is "my pledge when I was in the US Army  was to
defend the Constitution, not Seoul, South Korea".

The 'danger' to the South comes from an array of very upgraded SCUDs that
exist and are targeted at Seoul ( and other cities in the South). The
South's counter-response, or, likely "pre-emptive" response, as everyone
knows, is to take out these pre-targeted rockets and, the mostly obsolete N.
Korean Air force. In case people doubt the importance of Seoul, consider
that about half the population of the ROK lives in the Greater Seoul
Metropolitian Area. That's 24 million people.

The entire basis of current S. Korean politics toward the North that the
regime in the North is now on a slide toward disintegration. They have
various scenarios on how to deal with this including outright invasion to
hasten the process in a more 'controlled' manner. It is highly likely that
very secret negotiations take place between the Chinese and S. Koreans on
"what is to be done" should Korea be reunified on the basis of the ROC
political economy. The PRC doesn't want ROC troops on their border,
obviously. They probably want the economy, however, to help them in
investment capital in this, the old Rust Belt of China. The Russians are not
thrilled about it either (as it would bring them within about 60 miles from
their main Pacific port, Vladivostok). With the ROC comes the US Navy and
Airforce.

The S. Koreans have tentively figured and publicly discussed that it would
cost them up to 1 trillion USD to reunify and throughly integrate the north
with the south under their hegemony. After the clear economic failure of
German unification 20 years ago, they 'pulled back' from a more easy wishful
thinking on reunification with sections of the ROC ruling class having
second thoughts about 'reunification' altogether. But Korean 'national will'
on both sides of the border, unlike with the old FDR/GDR is for unification.
No one really speaks out against it.

And the DPRK got nukes, albeit its likely they are not 'weaponized' (made
compact and light enough to deliver to the enemy).

Altogether a f*cked up situation.

David

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[Marxism] NPA 'down under'?

[DW]

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Shane, thanks for clarifying. Like Louis, I find the WSWS stuff useful on
occasion, but one takes it with a kilo of salt or so.

I'm curious. So...the SPer received support from his local chapter of the
union? This is not uncommon, I think. There is an advantage to building a
local base in a community group or union and parlying that into an electoral
run in a local election. It makes perfect sense to me as I've seen this done
in the US. It also makes sense, knowing the CWIers as I do, that they are
not considered particularly loony and are good defenders, a la shop floor
issue or union issues, and would have a certain respect because of this.

In Detroit, many of the local Democrats including Congress, *had* to of been
members of Local 600 the big UAW local there. The same is true in other
older rust-belt cities through the 1970s.

Again, I appreciate the clarification.

I notice that Australia and Ireland seem to be some sort of exception sfor
the CWI which since ending their deep entry into large social democratic
formations, started building regroupment sort of devices to build their
current. In Germany, France and Brazil they participate in larger left
formations, but not where you are.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Emulating the NPA in Victoria?

[DW]

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Dan, glad you two found each other. BTW..,Chomsky is not a
"Libertarian-Marxist". He wold say awful things to you, sort of like Louis
does with people he disagrees with, if you said this to ol' Noam.

Louis hasn't a clue about what Daniel Gluckstein or anyone else in the
Fourth International is doing. He doesn't want to know. He doesn't care,
really. Fortunately far more people are influenced by DG and the FI than LP,
IMHO.

A revolution will grow out of existing organizations and new ones formed in
struggle. We are no where near that stage in the class struggle. Socialist
groups can grow, can lead and can lead a revolution obviously, because they
have that historic 'memory' of the working class. I doubt a soul in the
world, including Lenin, thought HE would lead anything but a small group of
Russian, mostly bumbling intellectuals sitting drinking coffee in exile.
Things change and people are thrust into leadership, groups are thrust into
leadership by the people in position. But forming socialist groups, groups
that understand their class history, and try to move working class
consciousness to more actions will occur are part of that process. That a
*single* group, looked at statically as "The Revolutionary Party" is hardly
the lessons that someone like Lih was trying to draw on Lenin's modeling of
his German comrades, IMO.

This means trying to lead. Any group that doesn't, isn't seeking to attain
the *goals* Lenin set forth in his early years of the social-democracy.
Groups are 'sects' if they put their own organizational and narrow political
perceptive ahead of that of the mass movements. The result is abstentionism,
usually, from the class struggle, or intervention in a destructive way. I
don't believe anyone can lead a revolution if this becomes the character of
the group; that is, it falls into sectarianism.

On the other hand, simply becoming a regroupment junkie, as if the answer,
as Louis believes, is stop being a 'sect', is a-historical and absurd. The
NPA is no loser to 'leading a revolution' than anyone on the left. I don't
even know if the NPA *sees* a revolution as either possible or desirable.
But Louis got all excited with when the LCR dissolved into it. I suppose
what ever turns you on. But that's about the real political effect of such a
move. Nothing more, nothing less.

D.

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Re: [Marxism] Emulating the NPA in Victoria? (last word)

[DW]

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You can have the last word on this, Louis. I'm sure you find this as
pleasurable as I do. I'm cooking and it's way to destracting. Have a good
holiday for you and your family.

D.

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Re: [Marxism] Emulating the NPA in Victoria?

[DW]

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Seems to be in the best tradition of Marxism, Louis, your sarcism
notwithstanding. You are in the Noam Chomsky school of do-nothing, ever, and
certainly not in an organization. You are more akin to anarchism than
Marxism I think. I suspect you thought your Northstar grouping was on the
right track to...leading a revolution? A huh.

Louis, there is NO formula for making a revolution. Your own utter contempt
for politics and for people who DO politics among workers and organizations
has kept you as a monk on the Upper East side. You will never leave,
politically or in person, your comfort zone.

I don't think the CWI will "lead a revolution". I would never use this list
to explain why, these sorts of polemics, except when you want to employ
them, of course, is not of interest to most members of the list. But it's
absurd for someone like you... let me put that in quotes "someone like
you"...to think who will and won't lead a revolution is absurd. You are
simply not in a position to pass judgment since you are religiously stuck on
being opposed to socialist organization unless if fills your schematic
checklist.

I also think it's absurd to think the NPA...because it is NOT a 'sect', or a
'group' or whatever favor you condensed onto them, WILL lead a revolution,
either. Or any left-of-the-left regroupment for that matter. Or a particular
party or tendency. But unlike you I wouldn't judge them on the criteria that
they describe themselves as Leninist or whatever. It simply is irrelevant
and, at any rate, unprovable.

Groups, large and small, can have great influence, for the better or worse,
helping to set up the conditions for the development of a revolution. If
they push the class struggle forward, help train workers in their own class
history, can point to tactics or strategy that lead to even immediate
victories, bring workers into struggle against the boss, then they hare
helping forge that leadership. I believe I do that in my own organization
and international. I wouldn't ever condemn, as you do because of your own
political impotence, what they do simply because they don't have Louis
Proyects Guide to Revolutionary Leadership (LPGRL) handy to refer too.

So if the CWI group in Victoria can do THIS, all power to 'em and hope they
never glance at this list for guidance. It would only demoralize them and
lead them into sterile denunciations for those that deviate from the LPGRL
canon.

D.

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Re: [Marxism] Emulating the NPA in Victoria?

[DW]

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I put "Leninist" in ironic quotes. I happen to agree with Lars Lih, Louis.
However, it's a stretch to think that the NPA or any group, grouping, etc is
functioning in *anyway* with Lih's interpretation of "Leninism" even
objectively.  This is your illusion, Louis, no one else's. Groups function
as "self-described" Leninist organizations way outside Lenin's own communist
understanding of the need for revolutionary workers party modeled on the
German social-democracy, even adapted 100 years later under entirely
different circumstances. *It does not matter*. Groups form, split, reform
and effect the class struggle (or not as usually the case) without regard to
even the rather astute understanding of Lih's thesis or through their own
momentum or incorrect understanding of how revolutionaries should relate to
the working class attempt to form a party of the working class.

Groups that are serious, *regardless* of how they describe themselves or
what they are doing, if they attempt to lead, will do so and it's worth
studying and, maybe, emulating. And those that don't, who get caught up in
*schematic* approaches to organization, are doomed to NOT lead, thus
reducing themselves to political irrelevancy.

I have very little in common with the politics of the CWI or it's sections.
But I can recognize when a group has made a serious attempt to put forward a
platform for the working class *and it gets a sounding*. You have a
sectarian approach which puts groups or individuals in pre-constructed boxed
with a check mark on them because they seek to build a socialist
party/group.tendency. Essentially you are, in a  converse sort of way, a
Spart, Louis. An "everyone should liquidate" sectarian.

D.

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Re: [Marxism] Emulating the NPA in Victoria?

[DW]

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Louis at his finest, and most ignorant...

Louis... the "left", or far left, is not composed of the Mandelistas, the
LOers and the Lambertists. They may be the biggest but maybe not the
majority of the far left in total. No, I'm glad my *comrades* are not in the
mess called the NPA. I'm not here to polemicize about the pros and cons of
the NPA. I doubt many on this list are interested in it, or even *about* the
NPA. You usually project your own pov onto the list as a whole, something
you have to get over. At any rate...I'm noting that there are a LOT of
groupings that have remained outside the three largest Trot tendencies or,
having split from them, maintained a separate existence for a long time, and
now find themselves in the NPA, some loyally building it as an electoral
"left of the left" alternative to the SP and CP, others as a regroupment,
and others for narrower factional reasons, that is to build their own
tendencies, maybe with the idea of either 'taking it over' or, splitting
with more than came into it. The NPA, by it's very nature, is open to this
and, seriously, I doubt the founders even care so long as the NPA *is built*
with it's original mandate.

If you look around the world at these forms of alliances, they *seem* to go
nowhere. Even the most arguable successful one, and the one with the most
chance (IMO), the Scottish Socialist Party, ended up self-destructing. I
think the real *rush* to build these fronts was a problem, especially in
England, but I think maybe...maybe, other places too. Of course you have
examine each situation.

The altnerative to this are small socialist groups running their own
election campaigns. In some cases, like the socialist alliances/NPA/PSOL
regroupments, they can be very successful.  The CWI's Irish group a case in
point, or maybe their effort in Australia. I don't know. Seems so, anyway. I
have nothing vested politically in any of this so it's interesting to take
dispassionate look at this. I heard Joe Higgins speak at the Labor Party
founding convention in Pittsburgh, PA over 10 years ago (another effort that
failed). He was an extremely articulate and passionate defender of the
working class in Dublin and I see why he beat all comers in that election.
He used the campaign to build the SP there, the local CWI affiliate. In his
20 minute talk he lambasted capitalism and the inability of Labour and the
Sein Fein to defend even the most elementary interests of the working class.
It was good. What didn't surprise me, given the CWI, was the fact that the
British occupation of the 6 counties in the north of his country was never
mentioned, not even once.

But if I were a  worker in Dublin I can see "seeing the SP" as their party
and even joining it if it answered my questions about the misery I lived
under.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Emulating the NPA in Victoria?

[DW]

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I think Louis you might have a misunderstanding of what the NPA is. It
probably IS what you think it is in part but that's because you are looking
at ONE tendency, the biggest one for sure, the LCR, that initiated the NPA
and dissolved into it. But it's primarily an electoral "front" of different
tendencies, in many ways similar to the Reconstructed Communist Party of
Italy which is known more for it's factionalism that its effectiveness. The
NPA has many individual members that don't look to this or that tendency and
that could be seen as a sign of it's success. I haven't a clue, however,
whether these currents, groupsicles, tendencies behave or not. I think it's
irrelevant, again, as by it's very nature small fronts like the NPA, the
SSP, the Socialist Alliances create their own dynamic for factionalism and
thus achieves the opposite of your benign, "liquidationism", that perhaps
you see as an answer to what ails Leninism.

The Aussie DSP is part of it's own alliance and sees itself as a 'Platform'
within the larger front/alliance. That's the "P" in "DSP". I don't think
they are necessarily fooling anyone...they are still the tight-knit
"Cannonist" grouping they were before 'dissolving' their 'party'. But it is
interesting to watch, isn't it?

David

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Re: [Marxism] Emulating the NPA in Victoria?

[DW]

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OK, should of known what you meant, my bad. Well, you mean they are not
operating like the LCR did which did dissolved into the NPAbut not the
tons of *other* currents that entered the NPA and did NOT dissolve. In that
sense you are absolutely correct. Like the PSOL in Brazil where some groups
may of 'liquidated' into the larger front, now apparently failing, PSOL and
others are in there as hardened factions. The CWI is definitely in the
latter category. [It's worth pointing out, interestingly however, that the
CWI group in Brazil, RS, is also the smallest of any of the groups that
formed the PSOL, but is nevertheless intensely loyal to building it as some
sort of left alternative to the PT]

It would be good if some of the DSP/RSP people on this list could comment.
The Aussie CWI group is doing anything *but* dissolving, they are running in
elections poising themselves as an alternative to Labor and the Greens or
anyone else. This may be quite successful from their POV, that is getting
large votes; poising at *the* socialist alternative for the left and working
people; building their own party exclusively and at the expense of other
groups on the left. That they may form a front of some sort to do this is
not out of the question, of course, but it's like to be seen as a CWI front
at best. None of this matter of course TO the electorate, who doesn't care
what groups do what or "liquidate" or not. It's not relevant.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Emulating the NPA in Victoria?

[DW]

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Dense. "Constituent groups": Groups that came together to form and build the
NPA; original members; first members; anti-capitalist left; etc etc.

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[Marxism] Emulating the NPA in Victoria?

[DW]

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I'm not sure why Louis doesn't think a CWI group couldn't pull this off. The
CWI had adopted many of the same perspectives as, say, the constituent
groups that make up the NPA in France. They keep their old Grantite
perspectives (super anti-nationalism, 'neutral' position the Malvinas War,
Cuba-is-Stalinist, etc) but this has absolutely no impact on an election
campaign in an advanced industrial country. No one really cares about those
as 'issues'. The same group in Ireland got  Joe Higgins elected in almost
the exact same way as this group is doing now in Australia.

David

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Re: [Marxism] China extends development success abroad

[DW]

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Michael that's exactly correct what you say. However...it's not always 'the
same'. The CO2 'footpritn' of any large concrete structure (actually
concrete and steel) is usually a 'one off' shot of lots of energy. They
don't 'discharge' CO2 as a matter of course, even when the concrete is
'curing'. It's all tied up in the manufacting of the concrete (which uses a
lot of natural gas) and the steel.

The methane issue is one that Louis P. brought to this list years ago and I
believe he still has some really good links on this. There is some
controversy over the issue. Largly these are geographic issues. Places where
they build dams in tropical areas tend to have very high methane effluent
problems. But in China many of these dams are in areas that have a
relatively sparser vegetation that gets flooded, thus reducing their methane
out put a lot. The other issue this raises...if methane is a problem (it's
30 times worse a greenhouse gas than CO2, for example) then the Amazon basin
is the largest single emitter of methane in the world given the amount of
rotting vegeitation. The carbon might get reabsored because of the plant
growth, but methane? I don't think so. So I've always doubted, meaning I've
questioned, how big a problem this really is, given how little difference a
big ass lake that is formed by a dam and a 'natural' lake that is formed
over time...especially over decades when they begin to exist more and more
alike.

David

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Re: [Marxism] China extends development success abroad,

[DW]

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I think both the articles posted by Michael K. and Louis P. from the
Washington post and NYTs, respectively, are utterly fascinating. The
implications of both articles, on very distinct subjects, are profound.

Everyone on this list has their own 'take' on "what China is". I consider it
"State capitalist" in the most instrinsic meaning of that term as well as
it's historical, mostly Trotskyist, defintinion of state capitalism.

The larger, maybe, overiding question, especially from the Wash. Post
article, is whether China is developing, quickly, into some sort of "State
Imperialist" power that combines aspects of national developmental goals
(scrounging for resources to develop it's economy) and typical Finance
Capital machination of seeking ever greater returns on foreign
investment...investement motivated *beyond* national capitalist development
of the Bonapartist type, or more of the Imperialist type. At any rate, I
think the implications of this articles ought to be discussed here.

Secondly, is coal use in China. I believe from reading a variety of
literature in the energy field, that the sitation is more complex than even
this very detainled NYT article implies. For example, it correctly states
that half of all rail traffic in China is for coal. We discussed this the
other day with our resident expert. S. Artesian, chiming in to give some
details. To show how dependent China is on coal and how it has screwed up
it's railroads, China is now expanding it's intercoastal fleet of coal
haulters to "export" coal to itself by shipping coal by boat to southern
China instead of by rail as rails has become unreliable, especially in
winter time and during the rainy season. The huge rail conjestion is
actually what is motivating the importation of coal into China, not only, or
even mostly, it's rapid increase in consumption of the stuff.

But China has also started to close it's older, dirtier (amazing that
some coal plants can 'less dirtier' than others) plants (literally by the
hundreds), albeit these are mostly smaller, less-than-100MWs type units.

The article is prone to exageration. For example, it describes a new 200MW
dam as a "behemoth". ??? This is *small* by any standards. It's about 2% the
size of the really "behemoth" 3 Gorges Dam (20,000 MWs) and a spate of other
plus-6000 MW dams that exist in China or are being planned or under
construction right now. Despite the very real envirornmental damage and
human dislocation these dams cause, they do on fact mean far less carbon
emissions. The several hundred million tons of coal *not* burned is a
signficant benefit to society. I know, however, that it causes it's own huge
social dislocation when dams this big are built not to mention flooding of
valuable farm land and a host of other problems. But one can be assured that
every MW of power produced by hydro power is not one produced by burning
coal.

China believes its actually addressing this huge amount of coal burning by
trying more efficient forms of coal boiler designs, more hydro, and nuclear,
which, per the 'plans' will supposely provide 1/3 of all of China's 1500 GW
load by the year 2050. Even assuming every plant gets built, and every dam,
and every efficiency and consveration pan gets going, China will still be
burning or have available and online, the same amount of coal it uses
now...in another 40 years with no net change downward. And THIS is truly
staggering problem.

Lastly, India is rapidly catching up, as the article points out, in the
energy usage catagory.

I've mainained that these country's capitalists and state planners, not
without a large amount of support from masses of people, are *going* to
develop in this manner. And...more and more 'intermetidate' developed
countries are going to follow their lead. Indonesia, Vietnam (from where
Michael reports from), Malaysia and Thailand are countries in S.E. Asia that
look to China, not anywhere else, as models for large economic and
development growth spurts. Fueling it all is one of the big questions facing
the planet.

David

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Re: [Marxism] A new spectre haunts the WSJ

[DW]

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I think the "Chinese economists" discussing HSR are at odds with other
"Chinese economists" who perhaps have a much longer perspectivelow
ridership is a reality but that's true *now*. As the inland areas develop,
as they seem to inevitably will do, these latter economists expect a large
increase in ridership going out to 10 and then 20 years.

The pay off is not always evident. For example, if HSR can cut into lower
speed standard rail, then these trains will run less, freeing up track for
cargo and coal transport, now routinely slowed or side-tracked. What would
be the pay off for that? There are plan to run HSR from Shanghai to Beijing,
a huge passenger AND freight corridor. When HSR starts running
freight...this has result on remaining tracts, easy maintenance of way costs
were are astronomical in China due to heavy coal transport. If China is able
to reverse it's use of coal, what are the effects of that on rail of all
sorts?

S.Artesian worked in rail road development in the U.S. so of course we have
to take what he says seriously. But there are economic spinoffs to develop
rail and increase rail transport in terms of payoff of what that
infrastructure allows. A new power plant brings development in two
directions: in the feed in industries used to build the components at the
front end, and providing energy to develop more productive forces on the
back end. China develops a very large amount of all this. It is not true
that stimulus goes mostly into 'parks and apartment' buildings. The real
money is going into actual production, through means as suggested by S. *
Artesian*. In the US none of this happens and is thus completely different.

that's it may come crashing down is without question, but the payoff, the
real payoff, economically, could still be huge.

David

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[Marxism] CO2 rising – the science of global w arming

[DW]

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Carbon atoms with personality. That’s the interesting literary device
biochemist Tyler Volk uses to illustrate the fantastic convolutions that
define the many and varied pathways of the carbon cycle. ‘*CO2 Rising*‘
tracks the fate of atoms ‘Dave’, ‘Coalleen’, ‘Oiliver’ and others, as they
wend their waythrough the Earth’s crust, oceans, biosphere and atmosphere –
indeed, all of the reservoirs of carbon on the planet.

In an entertaining way, the reader learns to appreciate the transience of
some states of carbon (such as the brief moments an atom is bound up in a
molecule of CO2 in a glass of beer, only to be later measured by the
instruments of Dave
Keelingon the peak
of Mauna Loa), and the timelessness of others (such as the
subterreanean lumps of coal and pools of oil, sequestering atoms for eons in
dark geological vaults).

Full:

http://bravenewclimate.com/2010/11/10/co2-rising-science-global-warming/

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Re: [Marxism] November 2010 elections voter turnout?,

[DW]

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The turn out was WAY less than 2008. I heard an interstesting statistic: if
you take all the *loosers* from 2008 Congressional elections (mostly
republicans, a few dems) you will find they ALL recieved MORE votes than
*any* of the winners in the elections this week within their districts. This
means there was a generalized boycott of the Dems by the Dems traditional
and non-traditional (un-registered 'independents) voters. This election was
only a "mandate" among those who voted, not the larger electorate nor the
much bigger adult population in the US. Bourgeois politics has shifted to
the right, as it did in 1980 and 1994, but not among the general population.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[DW]

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Bill,
you ask how anyone joining the army could be defended. Defended in what way?
If Blacks are subject to organized racism by white enlistees, as they were
for most this country's history...you wouldn't defend them? Really? In
Vietnam this was a major cause of the break down of the US army under
pressure from the Vietnamese. No one asked if the Blacks who were organizing
against racism there were drafted or enlisted.

Also, during the March 4th budget cut battle we worked with many young men
and women who had been in the armed forces or were about to enlist or WERE
enlisted and did so for a variety of reason, the biggest, obviously, being
economic as the economy simply sucks and they could finish their education
on the government's dime if they joined up. Most didn't want to go to fight,
most wanted to be stationed in the US and so on. It spanned the gamut of
reasons and rationalizations. Of course I would try to discuss the issue but
there it is. They were as militant as anyone.

I talked with a young ISOer at the recent Statewide Conference Against the
Budget Cuts. African-American he became radicalized in the Navy. Should he
not of been 'defended' because he originally enlisted? He is a phenomically
intellegent young Marxist who probably wouldn't be one had he not had that
experience. I'm not arguing FOR enlisting, I'm just not willing to help them
compose their letters of request to join the Tea Party like some of you seem
to.

I think most of you who rush to condemnation had ought to walk in their
footsteps a bit first, or at least be in the same room with some of the
people who sign up and *listen* to them before lecturing...

David

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Re: [Marxism] France: And Now Comes the Stab in the Back,

[DW]

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I want to concur with Andy here, even in light of Louis' remarks.

Generally, of course, I find these groups mostly full of polemical
nionsense. I'm sure Andy does as well. And for most of the time, the IG
should be included in this broad genearalization. This little group,
however, has ONE person who happens to be both an excellent journalist and,
unusually, an excellent historian. His reporting, *even with their polemics*
from Puerto Rico, for example, was also excellent and so with regards to
things Latin America, I sort of 'check in' with the IG to see what he has to
say.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Argentine Trotskyist of the PO murdered by Peronists on Weds.

[DW]

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Nestor: "Dear David, I am in the bet position to handle all data available."

WTF? You are god of all that is important from Argentina? Really? I trust
you as much as I trust C. Petroni. No reason I should believe you or not
more or less than him. If I find something interesting on his site, like the
history of *Peronist* death-squads from the 1970s or something similar, I
forward it here.

Nestor: "Again: please go and read what has been published on Reconquista
Popular
on this bloody and horrible event. This is but a fraction of all that
has been published, mainly from Peronist or Izquierda Nacional positions."

Always good to have source material. So thanks for that. But you didn't
forward this to THIS list, did you? (maybe I missed it...I took off a few
days so maybe it slipped by on the list) I took the iniative to forward
something I saw that would be of interest, but is obviously critical of
Peronism and...no doubt"...Izquierda Nacional positions." Yes, Nestor, the
Peronists and Izquierda Nacional hardly have a lock on the truth.

I forwarded the particular news item because a Trotskyist was *murdered* by
union thugs. I found this both sad and interestings as Argentina has had a
particular sad history of union, mostly Peronist, attacks on Trotskyists in
the union movement. That it is still going on is what is interesting *to
me*.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Argentine Trotskyist of the PO murdered by Peronists on Weds.

[DW]

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Of course the accused is a Peronist. No one questions that. I cited the C.
Petroni source from the web site, gave the address. It's a forward. Glad it
caused some discussion. Hope you looked at the FULL data.

Sorry about the stair casing...the forwarded text apparently was stair-cased
in the original, thus it ended up that way. People who know my posting know
I don't stair case OR forget to clip text.

D.

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[Marxism] Argentine Trotskyist of the PO murdered by Peronists on Weds.

[DW]

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from:
http://www.izquierda.info

Mariano Ferreira and a woman, both members of PO (Partido Obrero) were
murdered
today while participating of a demonstration of railroad workers in
Avellaneda.

The murdererers are members of the Juventud Sindical Peronista (JSP), led by
one
of the sons of Hugo Moyano (secretary general of the CGT)and were working on
behalf of Pedraza, the bureaucrat head of the Railroad Workers Union.


Pablo Diaz, chief of shop stewards in the railroad system, was arrested
yesterday. He is the third in importance in the railroad workers union (UF).

He was so stupid that few minutes before it was known that it was a dead
body,
he gave an interview for the camera admiting he was there, he commanded and
even
though he said there were no guns involved he declared "we were there to
stop
them from cutting services" and that they would do what the cops and the
judges
wouuldn't. He admitted it was a fight "commonplace in this kind of
circumstances" and that ëveryone involved were railroad workers".

Here the interview:
http://www.izquierda.info/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10108

Meanwhile, the barrabrava being sought turned himself in to the judge and
declared he did not shoot but knwe who did it and would testify to that
effect.
He also said he was summoned to the good squad by Pablo Diaz and was
promised a
job in the railroad.

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[Marxism] Photos of France in revolt,

[DW]

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David! These are wonderful photos. My favorite is #19, fulfilling a nice
French cliche on how the French fight back. But really the images of the
high school participants are the most inspiring, to me.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Eva Golinger, narconews, upsidedownworld, EcuadorSolidarity Network

[DW]

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I am on the same 'side' of this discussion as Greg and Sartisian but I take
a different tact on E. Goligner. I think she is playing the role of shill
for Correa here, but that doesn't mean she hasn't done extremely good
investigating in the past, most notably on the coup attempt and bosses
strike in Venezuela. She was the *main* defender of the process in Venezuela
and helped expose in quite detailed way with her report on Venezuela the
machinations Imperiailsm with regards to Venezuela. For that I'm grateful.
Sometimes anyone can fuck up, and I think her knee-jerk reaction to what was
a real possibility of an Imperialist supported coup attempt is
understandable albeit misplaced. By jumping on the 'everything Correra does
is great' bandwagon, she did herself a disservice. So, far, anyway.

Having said that she did post here directly to this list. I hope she
*continues* her investigations of the events in Ecuador but from a more
objective, and less "ALBA-esque" point of view.

I noted from the very *begining* of this discussion, on the day of the coup
attempt (or, whatever) that the whole thing seemed like the gang that
couldn't shoot straight (thank god). The cops COULD of juest offed Correa
and that would of parcipated a real coup by the armed forces.

But this is, I hate to say this, a little water under the bridge. What we
need to watch now are how the Ecuadorian mass organizaitons respond to the
calls for radicalization issue by Correa and, generally, how these
organizations continue to defend the interestes of their members. When I met
with a member of the "Workers Block" as part of the Correa wing in the
Ecuadorian Cosntituent Assembly 2 years ago (he represented Electrical
Workers) he noted that in comparing Correa and the movement behind him
(which he was and is a member) to Chavez and his movement, he said Correa
was a Corona beer compared to Chavez's Dos XX (we were in Mexico, he liked
Mexican beer, thus the analogy to the weaker cervesa to the stronger
flavored one).

We should move on and follow what is going on there now with a renewed
interest.

David

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Re: [Marxism] US Often Weighed North Korea `Nuke Option'

[DW]

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I think this has been studied to death. Curtis LeMay and McArth. both wanted
to nuke Korea. LeMay, for general purposes because he believed in using
a-bombs whenever and wherever possible, and Douglas MacArthur more
'tactically' to bomb Chinese bases across the Amnok River (known also as the
Yalu River). The study really doesn't take into account Soviet and Chinese
atomic reaction to this, threats against Japan, the U.S. mainland, etc that
could of/would of been a major detering factor.

That the US has plans to nuke N. Korea in the past or now should come as
absolutely no surprise. The US has "plans" to nuke all countries, all
cities, and probably, in the event of an insurrection, US cities. This from
a country that until 1939 kept updating it's plan to invade Canada. Really.
* *

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Re: [Marxism] CONAIE and PACHAKUTIK did not oppose the attempted coupin Ecuador

[DW]

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I generally agree with both Sartesian and Greg on Ecuador. But here I
disagree him.

IF there was a succesful coup against Correa we not only would oppose the
coup we would be in the forefront of demanding his return to office. The
democratic will of the majority of Ecuadoreans who voted for him based on
*their* interests must be defended unconditionally. Honduras is a prime
example of this...the masses themselves defined the ONE demand the
Imperialists wouldn't compromise or negotiate: the return of Zelaya.

There seems to be a general lack of understanding by Sartesian on the issue
of democracy and democratic demands. Revolutionaries do not define what
these demands are. We can refine them, nuance them, support them, but the
people march and mobilize, indeed, they FIGHT for the demands THEY raise,
not parties who barely exist or don't exist at all (Marxmail as a 'party',
for example). As Marxists we may understand all the limit of capitalist
democracy, but that is how all these revolutions *start*. How they end up is
likely up to the conscious revolutionaries to put forward an analysis and
program to organize the masses to complete *their* democratic revolution,
that is, to  its *only* successful conclusion.

Sartesian *seems* to dismiss this. It is mistake, in my comradely opinion.
We don't stand aside from those democratic impulses, we champion, lead and
are the best fighters for them. Period.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Energy policy/Bill Gates

[DW]

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"At 6:35 Mr. Gates made a serious mistake. He wrongly claimed that it did
not
matter how much energy was used as long as there was little or no output of
CO2. We learned earlier, however, that energy from our usual sources results
in global warming and that the role of CO2 appears to be small."

This is madness. We "learned" nothing of the sort. Thermal energy
accumulation is dissapted by the Earth existing surrounded by minus-100s of
degrees C of the vacuum of space. The net effect is a loss of heat made up
by solar input. The sun, not energy production, keeps the planet from
becoming a ball of ice. You are also a climate change denier as you deny the
effects of CO2 on planetary weather.

"At 7:00 Gates barely avoided outright lying about nuclear power and CO2.
Technically, it is correct to say: Nuclear power plants do not produce CO2
while generating energy. Actually it is meaningless because they do require
the production of CO2 at twenty points on the nuclear fuel/reactor cycles to
be able to generate energy."

There are good reason to oppose nuclear energy that one can discuss.
Legitmate concerns. This isn't one of them. "20 points" sounds like a lot
when they are totally unspecificied. The CO2 output from nuclear energy from
mining urainum to recycling and/or disposal is statistically irrelevant to
CO2 accumulation, having the same or a little more CO2 output  than the
production of wind turbines.

David

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Re: [Marxism] A note about the failed coup in Ecuador [coup attempts in ALBA states], by Atilio Boron

[DW]

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Wow...reall? That Evo might be suspicious? Half or *more* of the groups that
support Evo have taken money mostly via the EU. This is nothing new at all.
The Alto-Plano and the rural countryside is full of organizations that have
received money via European Union NGO largress.  Even the concept of the
"autonomies" that was once touted by the MAS, but then reversed course, has
it's origin via the EU and EU NGOs.

David

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[Marxism] Ceylon: Susan de Silva: Feminist Rebel and Pioneer Leftist

[DW]

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in today's issue of The Island, a daily newspaper in Sri Lanka:

http://www.island.lk/index.php?page_cat=article-details&page=article-details&code_title=8084

By Charles Wesley Ervin

Women played a significant role in the progressive movements that emerged in
colonial Ceylon in the early twentieth century. Susan de Silva was one of
those pioneers who defied the conservative status quo, raised her voice
against injustice, and worked for the betterment of society. She was active
in the nationalist movement in the ‘twenties, spearheaded the Youth Leagues,
participated in the Suriya Mal protests of the early ‘thirties, and was a
founding member of the Lanka Sama Samaja Party (LSSP), the country’s first
socialist party.

Yet, for all her involvements over many years, she faded into obscurity. She
never wrote memoirs, nor has she attracted the attention of historians.
Curious, I sought to find out more about this intriguing shadowy figure.

A Liberated Woman

Everyone who knew Susan remembers her as a very Westernized woman. She wore
her hair short, used cosmetics, wore slacks, and was very outspoken. One of
her comrades in the LSSP later recalled in his memoirs that Susan "had the
marks of a liberated woman, wearing short hair and smoking." 1 Indeed, she
was more "Westernized" than many English women in Ceylon in that era.
Full:

http://www.island.lk/index.php?page_cat=article-details&page=article-details&code_title=8084

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[Marxism] Ceylon: Susan de Silva: Feminist Rebel and Pioneer Leftist

[DW]

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Full:
http://www.island.lk/index.php?page_cat=article-details&page=article-details&code_title=8084

[From: The Island, Sri Lanka's paper of record...]

By Charles Wesley Ervin

Women played a significant role in the progressive movements that emerged in
colonial Ceylon in the early twentieth century. Susan de Silva was one of
those pioneers who defied the conservative status quo, raised her voice
against injustice, and worked for the betterment of society. She was active
in the nationalist movement in the ‘twenties, spearheaded the Youth Leagues,
participated in the Suriya Mal protests of the early ‘thirties, and was a
founding member of the Lanka Sama Samaja Party (LSSP), the country’s first
socialist party.

Yet, for all her involvements over many years, she faded into obscurity. She
never wrote memoirs, nor has she attracted the attention of historians.
Curious, I sought to find out more about this intriguing shadowy figure.

A Liberated Woman

Everyone who knew Susan remembers her as a very Westernized woman. She wore
her hair short, used cosmetics, wore slacks, and was very outspoken. One of
her comrades in the LSSP later recalled in his memoirs that Susan "had the
marks of a liberated woman, wearing short hair and smoking." 1 Indeed, she
was more "Westernized" than many English women in Ceylon in that era.


Full:
http://www.island.lk/index.php?page_cat=article-details&page=article-details&code_title=8084

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[Marxism] opposing the right wing coup without automatically supporting Correa

[DW]

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Dennis, you wrote: "As I wrote yesterday, the situation seems to be
analogous to August 1917 and the attempted Kornilov coup."

I think this is a real stretch of the analogy. Although I think I see why
you are raising it. The situation is so different it's hardly worth
comparing.

The Kornilov coup was aimed AT the rising tide of workers revolution in
Russia. This one was aimed at a government that has clearly been independent
of the Imperialists, one that is noticeably un-co-operative with Imperialism
(it defaulted on a $2 billion debt for example), has funneled a certain
amount of resources to the poor and generally is 'progressive' in the
broadest possible terms. There is no revolutionary situation in Ecuador,
however, that the capitalists locally feel 'threatened' of being politically
and economically disenfranchised. Workers haven't been building barricades,
Soldier's committees are not forming and electing their own officers, facing
a German (or any) army of 2 million on their own territory and so on. At
best, Correa's elected government is an expression of popular sovereignty in
a kind of "Venezuela Light" sort of way. And that is probably a stretch.

Any army (a capitalist army), police (that should be obvious), Peruvian or
Colombian (acting for the US imperialists) attack on this government should
be considered an attack on the people of Ecuador and *their* national
sovereignty. Defending Correa's government, *right now* means defending
Ecuador itself. It has nothing to do with seeing Correa as a "Comrade", at
all.

It turns out that the key border crossings were not closed by Ecuadorean
army or Border Police but by...Colombia and Peru, almost immediately, and
only *today* opened them up. That IS interesting, da?

David

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[Marxism] Interesting photo side show on BBC of pro-Correa rallies

[DW]

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11449617

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[Marxism] [Spa, sorry...] What I consider a serious evaluation of what happened in Ecuador and its consequences

[DW]

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I read through the article Nestor posted in Spanish (thanks for that). I
think it's clear there is some confusion about whether this was or is a coup
attempt. I think that is less important than it was an attack by the cops
and...the Air Force at least...on the government of Correa, democratically
elected by the majority of the people there. It was a 'test run'

Secondly, the mere fact that we can debate IF it was a coup attempt shows
the problem with this particular 'coup'. The mobilizations by the riot
police and the Quito municipal police in...rioting...was itself not a coup
attempt. But the idea...and one that is more sophisticated, a la Chile, was
that you create a social situation the right calls "Law and Order" where by
the country is unmanageable. At this point the armed forces step in and
declare martial law to restore "Law and Order". This was the long term
perspective of the capitalists against the socialist government of Hugo
Chavez during the bosses strike there. This *may* of been what happened
here.

However, this still seemed like the Gang that Couldn't Shoot Straight. While
the Air Force closed the air port and the militarized border police closed
the borders there was few moves *it seems* on governmental institutions.
Correa was captured not at his government office or home but at the
hospital. I think, personally, the army itself wavered. Troops by their
*overwhelming* majority stayed IN their barracks and bases (their choice?
the choice of the army leaders?).

I think politically this has to be looked at as coup attempt, or maybe more
accurately a "coup probe" for the ruling class (so people are not confused
here, that's the capitalist class that RUNS the political economy of
Ecuador, often referred to as The Oligarchy) to test the waters, to see
where the chips fall, the reaction of the masses to the coup attempt and, to
see how Correa *will react*...will he radicalize (a TRUE "national
revolution" with socialist leanings) or back off, as he's done, it appears,
over the last year?

This attempt at a Golpe occurs as Correa was *backing off* by attacking
sectors of the working class and indigenous movement (often the same thing,
as in Bolivia). It might of been, thinking out loudly, that the rulers
considered Correa *weaker* now after sections of his supporters started
differentiating from him. It's possible.

For the record, I consider Ecuador NOT being in some sort of "nationalist
revolution against Imperialism" (which would be a *good thing*, understand
Joaquin?). It is not Bolivia or Venezuela. That fact that Ecuador is in ALBA
I think is quite secondary to anything in terms of conditions on the ground
there. But it helps Imperialism justify or give some reason to be behind
this coup if they were.

David

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Re: [Marxism] AP on Correa and Ecuador (surprisingly good)

[DW]

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Stuart, my question as well which is why the army, less the police, have a
LOT of explaining to do. No doubt some heads will roll, or at least there is
a purge coming for their lack of response.

The big question internationally is the US of course. I suspect it will
require some investigating by those that can come up with some evidence
about the US' role.

Correa has been, generally, off the media's hit list if only by being
ignored. The best press to see this and what they are thinking are the
Europeans who generally too ignore Correa but pay 'attention' to Morales and
Chavez. I noted the BBC seemed to have the news of cop strike,then coup
within an hour after it started. But other than that they don't seem to pay
attention.

So to play the snotty Joaquín- *game* of Yankee-baiting emotional
grand-standing lets say this: Right...and to quote with him with one word of
difference:

 "For those folks on this list who have never met a Latin American
national movement they *didn't* like, I offer these comments..."

 Not one person here has EVER defended Chavez or the Venezuelan revolution.
 Not one person here EVER defended the Bolivian Revolution or attacks on it
by *IMPERIALISM*.
 Everyone always
attacks-no-matter-what-the-good-comrade-leaders-of-the-revolution
regardless, blah, blah.

The above is translated from Joaquín-speak to something understandable.

For Joaquín Correa is "our Cormade". Speak for yourself. I've met workers
representatives in the Congress of Ecuador who are *part of Correa's block*
who think NOT! Leaders of the hydroelectric workers; indigenous movements,
public workers unions and others *all of whom voted for him* AND defend his
Presidency but think he strarted *caving* to imperialism by attacking the
workers who supported him. They stand with him against Imperialism and for
democracy. But as to his policies IN the country...not so much anymore.



**

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Re: [Marxism] Correa speaks to rally of thousands in Quito

[DW]

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Folks, this shouldn't get into a big spat with S. Artisan or anyone else. S'
perpectives are his own and he's honest enough NOT to hold back his thoughts
on the class struggle. I'm glad he says what he says, when he says it, even
HOW he says it (ok, sometimes the way he says it:). Marxmail is, afterall, a
*discussion* list, not a solidarity organization.

I have NOT read a lot on the  current "Golpe" attempt against Correa. It
seems less a coup attempt that the police pissed off about getting some of
their benefits cut. They grabbed the President when he want TO them. I don't
believe, of course I could be wrong (I haven't read the Counterpunch Article
yet) that this started out as a coup attempt a la Honduras or Venezuela. The
"ominus" thing was the fact that army did nothing to protect the President,
their Commander and Chief when he was attacked and detained. And this, for
me, is what makes it a coup attempt as if the army was "waiting" to see the
reaction of the masses in general. They got their answers, clearly and THEN
moved into protect Correa.

But Ecuador is not Venezuela as much as Fox news and the Imperialists would
like it to be. Unlike Venezuela where the working class is overwhelingly
supportive of both the Revolution and the government that leads it, Ecuador
is hardly described as IN a revolution. It's working class is divided
and Correa is not held in ths same esteem as Chavez is. While Andy P. is
correct to argue that the cops on strike are like the Chilean truckers that
were part and parcel of the counter-revolution there, this is not the case
with the OTHER strikes and mobilizations that have broken out against the
Ecuadorean government of late. In fact, from a cursory reading of events
there leading up this cop rebellion, all the strikes were of very
legitimate goals and aims and...aimed at Correa and his austurity measures.
This police rebellion was not held in a vacuum. There is a
lot/significant-amount/some genunie working class reaction to Correa's
*attack* on some sectors of the working class, or at least as it is
perceived by many/some of these sectors.

Thinking out loudly,

David

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[Marxism] Two 'new' books by the Marxists Internet Archive

[DW]

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[I think I sent out a truncated version of this previously but I
couldn't find it--David W.]

Comrades, Erythros Press and Media, who distribute books on
behalf of MIA publishing, now has two new titles in stock.
The first, */Communards/*, is something every one of you will
want to read, whatever current of communism you support. The
other - */The Communist Manifesto & its Genesis/* - will not
be new to you, but you should buy it as an act of
solidarity. *Please promote these books with all your
friends and comrades*.

All proceeds go to paying the expenses of running the MIA.

-

Communards: The Story of the Paris Commune of 1871, As Told
by those Who Fought for It. Texts selected, edited, and
translated by Mitchell Abidor 302 pp
http://www.marxists.org/admin/books/communards/index.htm

In this unique collection of texts translated into English
for the first time, we hear the genuine voices of the Paris
Commune of 1871. Every Communard drew something different
from the experience of the Commune, and “Communards” allows
all of them to have their say.

“If socialism wasn’t born of the Commune, it is from the
Commune that dates that portion of international revolution
that no longer wants to give battle in a city in order to be
surrounded and crushed, but which instead wants, at the head
of the proletarians of each and every country, to attack
national and international reaction and put an end to the
capitalist regime.” - Edouard Vaillant, a member of the
Paris Commune.

Documents include the records of stormy meetings of the
Commune deciding on the execution of hostages, minutes of
meetings of the First International throughout the siege as
well as reminiscences of participants written down 25 years
after the event.

Much of this would be new to French-speakers; it is all new
for those who do not normally read in the French language.
No history of the Commune may be written in the future
without reference to “Communards.”

Mitchell Abidor is a writer and translator living in
Brooklyn. He is also the author of The Great Anger:
Ultra-Revolutionary Writing in France from the Atheist
Priest to the Bonnot Gang.

ISBN 978-0-9805428-9-9
Price US$25+postage.
Proceeds to Marxists Internet Archive

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[Marxism] From a comrade from my ill-spent Trotskyist youth

[DW]

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Yes, I heard it. It was quite inspiring. The worker described conditions in
southern China quoting Engels description of the condition of the working
class in the 19th Century. He noted that the factory owners and the local
Communist Party bosses work together to rip off the workers in the big
factories.

David

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Re: [Marxism] What If? Lenin and Trotsky: When to hold, when to fold.

[DW]

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Fred, not totally true, although I get your point. The proposal to the
All-Union Soviet for establishing the Red Army was passed in January or
February of 1918. It was forming up with the former all-Bolshevik Red Guards
as their corp groups. Trotsky went from Comm. of Foreign Affairs almost
immediately to Comm. of War and head of Red Army.

The Red Army wasn't "much of a player" until 1919, that is 'winning' but it
took time to organize. Trotsky actually used the existing British and French
military attaches in Moscow to learn war-craft of which he previously had
little knowledge, either practically or intellectually. He was, obviously, a
quick learner. What gave a boost to the Red Army was actually a set of
*defeats* in the summer of 1918 which galvanized the Russian working class
and peasantry to support..that is join...the Red Army.

But there was a Red Army in 1918, just not much of one.

On the 'role' of Trotsky. It seems only people with a political axe to grind
would down play Trotsky's role during any of this period. The capitalist
press...a review of the foreign workers press (the CP of America's own press
during this period, for example) shows the actual truth in this regard, not
to mention Stalin's *own* words at Trotsky's role. It's not even really
worth dredging up again and does border on the kind of thing Louis doesn't
want to see here.

David

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[Marxism] What's going on in Cuba and why it's more important that what "Fidel said".

[DW]

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Folks,
 It seems that Cuba may be going through one of its biggest economic changes
it has faced since the nationalization of foreign industries in 1960. It
seems far more momentous than previous 'recticification' campaigns,
loosening up small-scale commodity production and distribution and then
reigning it back in again. I think it is way more important that what one
thinks Fidel Castro 'said' or 'meant'. The course of events there is being
decided by the Cuban Communist Party, it's leadership and, to varying
degrees how the people of Cuba respond.

There are going to be half-million layoffs, at least, per Raul Castro's
recent announcement. This about 9% of the Cuban work force. Private
entrepreneurial initiatives are supposed to 'soak' up the newly made
unemployed...or not. I think we ought to discuss this, parse out what the
Cubans themselves are saying...and how they are reacting too this...and pay
closer attention to the events in Cuba's political economy.

David

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[Marxism] From the MIA: Communards: The Story of the Paris Commune of 1871, As Told by Those Who Fought for It

[DW]

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Special announcement from the Marxists Internet Archive:
***Communards:*
 The Story of the Paris Commune of 1871,
As Told by Those Who Fought for It.
Communards: The Story of the Paris Commune of 1871, As Told by those Who
Fought for It. Texts selected, edited, and translated by Mitchell Abidor.
Published by Marxists Internet Archive Publications, 2010.

In this unique collection of texts translated into English for the first
time, we hear the genuine voices of the Paris Commune of 1871. Every
Communard drew something different from the experience of the Commune, and
"Communards" allows all of them to have their say. "If socialism wasn't born
of the Commune, it is from the Commune that dates that portion of
international revolution that no longer wants to give battle in a city in
order to be surrounded and crushed, but which instead wants, at the head of
the proletarians of each and every country, to attack national and
international reaction and put an end to the capitalist regime."

Edouard Vaillant, a member of the Paris Commune. Documents include the
records of stormy meetings of the Commune deciding on the execution of
hostages, minutes of meetings of the First International throughout the
siege as well as reminiscences of participants written down 25 years after
the event. Much of this would be new to French-speakers; it is all new for
those who do not normally read in the French language. No history of the
Commune may be written in the future without reference to "Communards."

Communards is available only through Erythrós Press and Media and all
proceeds go towards the operations of the Marxists Internet Archive.
http://www.erythrospress.com/store/communards.html
--

About the author:  Mitchell Abidor is a writer and translator living in
Brooklyn, New York. He has translated hundreds of texts from French,
Spanish, Italian, Esperanto and Portugese into English, including works by
writers as diverse as Jean-Paul Sartre, Antonio Gramsci, the Argentine poet
Juan Gelman, and Maximilien Robespierre. Mitchell is also a regular
columnist for the French magazine Le Grognard. He is married to the artist
Joan Levinson.He is also the author of The Great Anger: Ultra-Revolutionary
Writing in France from the Atheist Priest to the Bonnot
Gang
.

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Re: [Marxism] Cuba headed in the same direction as China and Vietnam?

[DW]

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 >No knowledge or no record of Trotskty

Ergo...you need to read something other than CP stuff. Try 10 Days that
Shook the World. I highly recommend it. Actually that WAS CP stuff...albeit
prior to airbrushing people out of history.

> He wasnt in the frame until the late 1917's

EVERYONE was wasn't in the "frame" until 1917. Lenin when he arrived in
Petrograd in April, Trotsky in July after being freed from a British prison.

> and very much junior and a
Menshevik to boot

You really need to read more.

D.

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Re: [Marxism] Stalinism and Maoism, Trotskyism and Conservatism (was Re: Irwin S

[DW]

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Well, if one COULD have a reasoned discussion along these lines, it might be
best to put in in less polemical "rivers of blood". It's also necessary to
reject Waistline's arrogant, flippant passive/aggressive "This line of
thought is all stupid but Trotskyite-ism is reactionary...blah blah".

On the yahoo Leftist Trainspotters list, going now for about 10 years and
founded by die-hard Maoists, self-described Stalinists and Trotskyists but
ALL with a sense of humor AND "proportion" which has worked well, many times
better than this list I would say. We "spot" groups, talk about them
somewhat dispassionately and try to spot what's going on in the left. Again,
with  a sense of humor, witty repertoire, massive fertilization of egos and
smashing thereof. We have what is called "Nico's Rule", (named after a list
member) that anything "left" is basically anything, person, party which, in
Yankee nomenclature, would be to the left of the Democrats but not including
them. Not accurate practical for 'spotting' purposes.

There are a lot cross-over between that list and this one I might add. But
don't cover over there if you take YOURSELF too seriously.

We try, anyway, to leave the "Rivers of Blood" discussions to other lists
because it is simply to unwieldy. Sometimes it pops up and we let it go a
bit, usually by a newbie, then squash it, all of it, regardless of politics.

Waistline, if he could only refraine from the
'matter-of-factually-you-suck-and-we-are-the-true-heirs-of-Lenin-don't-ya-know'
nightclub routine, could make some good points. If only...a huh.
*
Joaquín's comm*ents are noteworthy if ONLY because he speaks to a reality
that has left what Waistline says in a sort of historical dustbeen: there
are new kids on the block and the FACT that most of the former communist
countries are now very "former" says a lot more than to who won, what, when,
in the 1928 comintern congress or whatever. If you look at the left
generally, *especially* in developing countries there no more "majority
communists" bullshit. It *depends* on what country. If you are a communist
in Venezuela the left is defined by the PSUV. Period. The pro-Moscow
communists, which still wield some weight in the unions, are simply
irrelevant to what is going on there *as communists*. In Algeria, France and
a few other countries, "majority communists" is now more anachronistic than
ever or totally and absolutely irrelevant to the class struggle.
"Communists" or acting as such, is *usually* means NOT in the "majority
communist" party. It means nothing to say "..majority communists...".

Clearly in some countries it is still very important. India, for example.
But not Pakistan. In the Philippines there are more communists outside the
"official" (and formally pro-Biejing) CPP/NPA than in it, with Trotskyism or
"near-Trotskyist" groups now the "majority communists". But that is what the
spotters list is for, to argue about these little factoids without anybody's
entire political history on the line.

I'm very partisan about my world view, my politics. But I am not flip about
any of it. Ever.

David Walters

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[Marxism] Glass House

[DW]

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I like the Soul Train version if only for the dancers/participants are
wearing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex3WpoVjMhI&feature=related

1974. 17 and having a great time.

D.

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[Marxism] test

[DW]

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test

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Re: [Marxism] Arch-Zionist claims that Israel will bomb Iran's nuclear facili...

[DW]

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I agree with Jay. There is a good stance that the US will not do an
immediate 'shock and awe' but a slow escalation of the stakes. Boarding and
seizing ships bound for Iran. But what would really hurt the Iranians is the
preventing of oil tankers taking on cargo from Iran's extensive off-shore
oil dispensaries...their main form of exporting. Toyota today announced the
end of selling cars there and others are expected to follow.

Unlike most other countries, Iran's 70 million people AND the government are
especially vulnerable to economic embargo. I suspect...only a guess...that
these economic weapons will REALLY get turned up way before seizures of ship
and 'acts of war' are actually implemented. Scary shit.

I don't think the US is likely to really 'invade' Iran so the 'mass gave'
thing by the Iranians is purely for internal consumption.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Netflix as creative destruction

[DW]

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I appreciate Louis' posting of this NYT article on the list. I would be more
interested, however, in any comments ON the article and the subject.

IMO, this article objectively lays out the problem of technology under the
capitalist mode of production and shows how it can negatively effect the
working class. What does not seem to be detailed is the 'social' effect
beyond that. The huge build up of employment in video stores has a parallel
with independent book stores as book selling became highly commercialized in
the 1980s, with the initial advent of the franchising of stores like
Marlboro Books, Daltons, etc. They gave way to the 'super stores' like B&N.
Now the Internet is doing to physical stores what Netflix has done to
Blockbuster and Hollywood Video.

What keeps independent book stores open are rare, hard to find, un-internet
listed books. What keeps the remaining 'neighborhood' video stores open is
pornography, which accounts usually for about 50% of their business or more.
Porn is not distributed by Netflix, that I'm  aware of and of course was not
sold in Blockbuster or Hollywood Video.

But the social effect is something else indeed. The internet has offered the
capitalist system a way of atomizing people. It is the ability to heighten
the fake ideology of the cult of the individual that has been going on since
around the time of end of WWII with the start of the suburbanization of the
housing for a privileged layer of the working class, the building of
interstate highways, the development, massively, of the carCULTure and so
on. And I'm personally not immune to this trend, nor  probably, are most of
those on this list. I order books via abebooks.com and amazon.com. I live in
the suburbs, have a long commute and our 3 member family has 3 vehicles.
Now, Amazon announced it is selling far more ebooks than paper ones, further
enforcing this alienation and individual cultism...can't 'lend' an e-book,
at least not yet.

But the atomization the working class is something that is quite scary in
the sort of long term perspective. It reinforces, IMO, alienation from ones
class in a large and profound way.

David

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[Marxism] Earliest use of the word "Stalnism"

[DW]

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I think Waistline is spot on. I wrote to Grover Furr offlist and also told
him that it was the Program of the Opposition that I found the term
"Stalinism" first use May, 1927), at least by Trotsky and at least in terms
of what I found in English. It is highly likely, again as Waistline noted,
that it may of been used by others and mostly like in the form of
"Stalinists", plural, in impling "supporters of" as opposed to an "ism"
which has deeper political implications. I would suspect that the great
Oppositionist and former President of Ukraine, Christian Rakovsky, the
person with the deepest understanding, from an Oppositional point of view,
of the rise of the bureaucracy in Russia, is likely to of used it in either
his Russian or Ukrainian language polemics as early as 1924 or 1925, but
that's a guess.

David

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[Marxism] Support the "International Friends of the Leon Trotsky Museum" in Mexico City.

[DW]

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Dear Friends:

I am writing this letter to ask for your support for the "International
Friends of the Leon Trotsky Museum" in Mexico City.


 I -- along with many others around the world -- was asked by the Museum's
new director, Olivia Gall, and by Trotsky's grandson, Esteban Volkov, to
help raise funds for the Trotsky Museum in Mexico City. I am attaching below
for your information the Info Packet issued by the "International Friends"
Committee so that you can see why funds are needed so urgently to maintain
and renovate the home where Leon Trotsky; his wife, Natalia; and his
grandson "Sieva" (Esteban Volkov) lived from May 1939 to August 21, 1940,
when Trotsky was assassinated by an agent of Joseph Stalin.


 As many of you may know, the Trotsky house on Calle Viena No. 19 in
Coyoacán became a Museum and landmark building in 1975. In August 1990 the
house adjacent to the Museum on Avenida Churubusco was annexed to the
building, and in November 1996, the Museum was legally registered as a
non-profit civil institution. Among the people gathered from around the
world to celebrate the expansion of the Museum in 1990 was Jake Cooper, one
of the many bodyguards sent down to Mexico by the Socialist Workers Party of
the United States to protect the renowned Russian revolutionary leader.


 The Museum is also dedicated to the right to asylum, particularly to then
Mexican President Lázaro Cárdenas' decision to grant asylum to Trotsky, at
the behest of artists Frida Kahlo and Diego Rivera,  both supporters at that
time of Trotsky and of his movement internationally. In fact, the full name
of the Museum is the Institute on the Right of Asylum, House-Museum of Leon
Trotsky.


 The Museum is a magnificent repository of this rich moment in Mexican and
world history.


 For more information about the Trotsky Museum, please go to the following
websites:


 - http://museocasadeleontrotsky.blogspot.com/


 - http://www.museotrotskymexico.org


 (Also, if you go to google, you will find hundreds of links to the Museum,
with photographs, guided electronic tours in English, and more.)

For the past 20 years, the Museum has been funded by the fees charged to
visitors (tens of thousands per year) and by a grant from the Cultural
Department of the Mexico City Government.


 Unfortunately, because of the deep economic crisis in Mexico and the
unwillingness of the Mexican federal government to assist the Trotsky Museum
-- in fact, the Fox and Calderón administrations have been reducing the
budgets for public museums, universities, schools, and other public
institutions and services at an alarming pace -- the continued existence of
the Trotsky Museum is at risk. The Mexico City Government has promised
funding for the next fiscal year, but not necessarily after that. The reason
is a shrinking city budget.


 Given this alarming situation -- and, moreover, given the rapidly
deteriorating state of the Museum itself -- the new director of the Museum,
Ms. Gall, has launched an international campaign to raise US$1 million to
preserve the Museum, to renovate the building (which is needed desperately),
and, just as important, to ensure the improvement and modernization of the
services offered by the Museum itself.( All these are documented in the
attachment below from the "International Friends" Committee.)


 Thanks to Global Exchange, we have now obtained "fiscal sponsorship" for
this project. This means that all checks from individuals, organizations and
foundations in the United States will be tax-deductible, benefiting from
Global Exchange's 501 (c) (3) status.


 We have set out to raise $250,000 in the United States in the coming
months. We would like to be able to announce significant progress in our
fundraising project in the United States at the official launching of the
"International Friends" Committee at the Trotsky Museum on August 21, 2010
-- the 70th anniversary of the assassination of this central leader of the
revolutionary-socialist movement.


 To reach this goal, we urgently need the support of everyone concerned
about preserving the Leon Trotsky Museum and this important legacy. (When
you read the Info Packet below, you will also find other ways that you
and/or your organization can help the Leon Trotsky Museum.)


 Please make your checks payable to Global Exchange and indicate "Trotsky
Museum" on the bottom left Memo line of your checks. After your check has
been received, Liza Gonzales of Global Exchange will send you a thank-you
letter, accompanied by a letter to be submitted with your tax return
acknowledging your tax-deductible contribution. You will also receive a
letter from Olivia Gall and Esteban Volkov thanking you for your support.


 Global Exchange has asked me to collect all the checks and t

Re: [Marxism] Nuclear Energy Causes Global Warming

[DW]

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Louis, your baiting aside...Socialist Organizer, nor the Fourth
International (La Verite/La Verdad), has taken a position one way or another
on nuclear energy. Period. What you read about energy from me is *my*
position. Unlike some, you likely, view of socialist groups being overly
strident on the 'centralism' of 'democratic-centralism', we don't have any
such thing. In fact, if SO took a position against nuclear energy, I would
still hold forth my own position on the question, and it wouldn't raise an
eyebrow. The same is true with our international current. We are in fact
developing our position on the environment, something that has been
seriously lacking on our part.

However, I don't understand this ad homin attack on me, Louis. If you want
to discuss energy, ecology whatever, then discuss it. If you just want to
engage in mudslinging, leave me out of it. I'm sure the rest of the list
would agree.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Nuclear Energy Causes Global Warming

[DW]

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LProyect wrote:
"You really are a joke. Do you come up with this stuff on your own or is
this the Lambertiste education you got?"

You call this a serious response? Is this the education you got from from
your heros, the Cockranites? You wanna play 'bait the poster' now Louis?
Grow up or should we take everything you write as taken from a 12 year old?

My position on the NRC, and especially the ASME (not mentioned in the
Davis-Besse piece Louis posted) manufacturing and testing standards (the
links were provided in my essay) still stands. I'm not an uncritical
defender of NRC...the fact is that since TMI, Davis-Besse included, there
hasn't been a serious accident. Not a one with nuclear energy. Again...there
simply hasn't been a TMI-like accident largley because their regs work, even
with lackadaisical and/or complacency within the NRC. Despite what the
article notes, fairly accurately, very single failing IN the NRC has been
parsed out and brought to light BY the NRC or staffers therein. Far more
workers have died in fossil fuel plants, communities effected, etc because
of gas-turbines and coal plants than nuclear. IT is simply *safer* by far
living next to a nuclear plant (and yes, Vermont Yankee included) than any
fossil plant. The proof is in the real statistics on health and safety and
no serious anti-nuclear 'activist' can challange those facts (nor even
google-commandos like our sniveling Moderator...). If you think wind mills
and roof top solar can replace nuclear...go for it. See you under water in a
100 years. I want to end planetary climate change and nuclear, IMO, and that
of a lot more people, is one of the main ways to go to reduce carbon output
while *expanding* energy use around the world.

But the issue is what NRC regs, or type regs, and ASME Standards would do
for offshore oil drilling. Louis thinks, from his sniveling response, a big
"nothing". Of course he's ignorant of those regs since he clearly didn't
follow the links I provided. That the NRC/company (Duke energy) complacency
and failures at Davis-Besse were terrible and condemnable at very level, the
article fails to prove the bigger picture of the generalized success from a
health, safety and radiological POV of these same regs. I note that the best
way to proceed is to build a movement for public power where, even under the
capitalist mode of production, operations are at least that much more
transparent and profit it taken out of the picture. This clearly is still on
the agenda, as well as strengthening NRC regs where needed. If you read that
NRC report quoted in the article (as opposed to an anti-nuke writers
'interpretation' of it) you will find that such inspections of the inner
containment vessels are not signed off by multiple inspectors *including*
separately from the company.) At the end of the say, you still have to ask
*why* there hasn't been meltdowns and large radiological releases since TMI
in the US? Why? Anyone want to guess? It's a question of risk-assessment and
what we face as a planet. I've concluded, obviously, that nuclear energy is
the way to go. Slowly people like me are making gains winning those on the
Left to this viewpoint. The key is to be *open* to study things objectively
and discuss them in dispassioned way. We did this, sort of kind of, even, at
the recent Socialism 2010 conference in Oakland (lots of fun on that one).

We need to apply completely new regs to off shore oil drilling at every
level, from operations (we now learn that the fire alarm system was
intentionally bypassed! on the rig) to manufacturing of equipment. We need
to strengthen those and not just for exploratory/initial drilling projects
but for platforms that already exist...there are thousands of them. We can
condemn, as we should, these, the richest Oligarchy in the world and call
for their expropriation. But need..transitional forms of regulations..that
can be applied to the real-world privately owned enterprises that make up
this Oligarchy of Oil.  ASME is still the model to use, IMO.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Nuclear Energy Causes Global Warming

[DW]

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I didn't raise nuclear energy once in my reply to the good doctor from
Oregon. The posting of such tripe, as well intentioned as the poster meant,
I'm sure, demeans the general standards of Marxmail when discussing issues
of science. This is why I only addressed the issue of energy as a 'heat
source' and other nonsense. Mark and others clearly agree.

But Louis raises an interesting question...meant as sort of a 'jab' at more
quite public position of advocating more, not less, nuclear energy,
specifically to address the climate crisis. The answer, however, may not be
the one expected by him since when I wrote "interesting", I quite meant
that.

To wit...first, the oil companies are perniciousness in their lust for oil
and the revenue it generates for the stock holder owners. Oil companies, as
well, like all fossil fuel enterprises, but most notably the "gas" part of
the oil business, are quite anti-nuclear as well. This is one reason you see
oil and gas companies touting things like solar and wind but never, ever, it
seem anyway, nuclear. Wonder why? But that too is a digression...here is my
main point and answer to Louis:

If BP *WAS* a nuclear reactor builder or operator, it would be quite a
different state of affairs in the Gulf. Namely, it is like to have never
happened in the first place. This has to do with the way components for
nuclear reactors are built and, as importantly, the way they've been run.
Unlike BP and the government 'regulator' the "Bureau of Mineral Management",
nuclear is held to a quite higher standard.

I wrote this the wake of the Gulf disaster for several other blogs and
mailing lists. It is short and I believe it will answer Louis' question:
We need to apply nuclear standards to oil drilling!June 28th, 2010

The Gulf is slowly in it's death throws. Maybe if "they" get it capped in
time, it will not be destroyed. Unlike many on the political Left, I don't
rush to argue that drilling needs to be stopped altogether. [I do support it
being stopped for the time being, however, or at least the exploratory side
of drilling as opposed to existing wells]. This helps no one. What does need
to happen, is that BP ought to be expropriated with no compensation. This is
not *only* the socialist inside me arguing this. It's what they deserve.

Secondly, we need to start taking back OUR resources from those that
ruthlessly, and carelessly, exploit them. How many people know that
much/lots/most of that oil they pump out is sold on the *world* market and
is not directed toward the U.S.? This gives a lie to the idea that
supporting off shore oil drilling "helps Americans". Hardly. An interesting
factoid me thinks...

But more to the point.

The political-economy of this disaster aside for a bit, part of this issue
is why they drill in deep water and under what kind of regulations. We know
now that the "Build oil refineries in Yellowstone Park party" Interior
Sect'y under Regean, James Watts, built this fake regulatory committee to
'oversee' the oil companies so they wouldn't be stymied by real regulations
like the NRC does with the nuclear industry.

So...what does this all mean? Well, for starters, we ought to have a serious
open ocean regulatory authority like the NRC has with nuclear: completely
financed by fees levied on oil extraction (a national oil excise tax to
start wouldn't be bad).

Secondly, they would have the right to stop, inspect, throw-in-jail, anyone
in the industry that could potentially cause harm to people first and then
the environment...exactly as the NRC does today. This means WELL PAID
inspectors who live under constant auditing provisions of their income. It
means a top-level Commission, not a small committee buried in the Interior
Dept.

Thirdly, all drilling equipment would have to be "N-stamped". The "N-Stamp"
on a piece of equipment means that it was produced at a facility designated
as modern enough, precise enough, with enough exacting standards to make
nuclear equipment for our nuclear power plants. There are only about 50
facilities in the US with "N-Stamp" approval. This stamp is issued by
the American
Society of Mechanical Engineers  is recognized not
only by the NRC but also nuclear regulatory agencies around the world.

The Nuclear Component Certification
Programof
ASME is extremely tough and covers everything from component design to
component alloys to tolerances to installation. It is a *higher* standard
than that which NASA and the FAA applies to aerospace. This is the reason
there are no catastrophic *equipment* failures in the US and most of the
worlds nuclear industry that uses ASME certification.

If the blowout preventer had been built to NC

Re: [Marxism] Nuclear Energy Causes Global Warming

[DW]

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Poor Mr. Morton S. Skorodin, MD, clearly is loopy on his understandng of
energy and the production/use of energy as a cause of global warming and
climate change. He needs to go back to school and study again.

"Energy" as such, does nothing Doctor Skorodin suggests it does. It does not
get enthropologically 'trapped' in Earth. It does not "go on forever". The
amount of heat energy created by the gneration of the generation of
electricity by *any* source is so infinitesimal it can hardly be measured.
It contributes, statistically, nothing to climate change. There are very
localized issues of heat pollution from power plants on water ways. But
again, no climate change.

back to science,

David

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[Marxism] Harvey Pekar "American Splendor" on Anthony Bourdain

[DW]

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http://www.smithmag.net/pekarproject/2010/01/19/story-17/

I just saw this as I was wading through the "American Splendor" online
editions at the Pekar Project (see URL above). Pekar did an issue of
"American Splendor" on his appearance on "No Reservations".

David

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Re: [Marxism] Anthony Bourdain on Harvey Pekar II,

[DW]

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Greg, don't eat meat! That's terrible the physical reaction to it you
get...especially about cheese. At the ISO conference I talked with a few
people from the meat forum about their vegetarianism and how it was "The
Cheese" that kept them from going "all the way" to veganism.

I think the reaction you received is fairly typical at most dinner tables. I
think the difference is that to become a vegetarian one 'makes a step', a
lifestyle change, that requires parsing out why you are doing this. Thus
they are more serious about the issue in general. Meat eaters don't have to
do that as they are simply following what they know or what they've done by
custom. So the reaction is highly un-intellectual, usually laced with barbs
and humor or both. Vegetarians take this lifestyle far more seriously. For
meat eaters it's "I eat meat", period. And of course for *most* vegetarians
and even vegans they *live* in a meat eating world and while many have a
sort of evangelical aspect of their lifestyle, most "simply get along" with
meat eaters and it's not an issue. The overwhelming majority of such
dinner-table discussions are like that. Both 'sides' joust a little, then
laugh, eat, and be merry.

Bourdain has discussed the problem as a chef...it's all where he starts from
remember. As the NYT article link too by Louis' previous post here, notes,
his views from Kitchen Confidential, his Memoir, is a literal handbook to
the proletarian line cooks in the back of the kitchen and he is adored for
that reason. I doubt that he has to ever pay for a meal in a sitdown eatery
anywhere the book has been translated. Everything comes back to that. And
while he is extremely acerbic and dismissive in this 2000 book (yes, his
views evolved since then) toward vegans he makes very good points that ought
to be considered by the evangelical among you on this question.

David

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[Marxism] Anthony Bourdain on Harvey Pekar II,

[DW]

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I think his statements have been 'brash', or worse, as well, or perhaps more
honest but...recently he toned it down a bit explaining exactly what it is
he finds contemptible about not vegetarianism, per se, but many of those
that advocate it. He points out that he has a respect for those that for
health or religious reasons choose not to eat meat. I heard him once lecture
on this and noted that people who respect animals as well ought to be
considered as legit but that's not who he is talking about. It's the
culturally insensitive ones he's goes after. Those that lecture, those that
*assume* theirs is the only position to discussion all others being immoral.

 He's noted on more than one occasion that if he lived in India it would be
easy to be a vegetarian and not even wonder why he is one.

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Re: [Marxism] Anthony Bourdain on Harvey Pekar II

[DW]

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I posted my previous message without having read the Counterpunch article or
johnaimani's comments. I wanted to briefly respond.

I think Kozloff makes *some* good points, objectively. But...he is trying to
fit Bourdain into a PC version of himself, projecting onto Bourdain what he
"ought" to support. There is a pedantic arrogance in Kozloff's essay that
reeks of guilty liberalism. His assumption... a pure unadulterated on is
that the left supports his POV, that we *have* to give up meat, and so on.
There is no room for discussion in Kozloff's world view on this question.

By doing this, and offering salient criticism of meat consumption and
factory-farming, he then obscures Bourdain's own view of the subject because
he only offers one or two statements from Bourdain instead of exploring what
he actually thinks on the subject instead of just a few sound bites.
Bourdain, while offering no solution, *starts* from his own historical
vocation: that of a chef who for years was the exec. chef at a French *steak
house*. Bourdain knows his meat. Secondly, flowing from the first, is flavor
and the role animal proteins have played in the centrality of the worlds
food development, again from the point of view of what is *available* and,
secondly, from, again, "flavor". Bourdain sees the likes of the Kozloffs as
simply arrogence and a distain for local cultures, something even Kozloff
admits Bourdain is excellent in bringing to his viewing audience. But
Bourdain only writes from this chefs, or "cooks" (Bourdain calls himself)
perspective, not as a social commentator, primarily.

Obviously I'm much closer to Bordain on his 'world food view' than I am by
Kozloff. But the inability to discuss the topic is often the result of the
*reactive* hostility you seen in Bourdain's comments *caused* by what
Bourdain very accurately calls the political fanaticism of vegetarians. (The
ISO recently held as part of their Socialism 2010 conference a great
workshop on "Is Meat Murder?". Of course I went to this not knowing what to
expect. It was quite good and the ISO representative...the only ISO
representative I actually heard speak at their conference in fact, gave a
great talk on the *philosophy* of this question. A wonderful discussion
ensued, with only a few appeals to "specism" argument; most being a rounded
discussion for and against in answer to the question at hand).

johnaimani's point is somewhat interesting from the production POV of the
show. Originally Bourdain jumped networks from the Foodnetwork (producers of
"A Cooks Tour") to the Travelchannel (home of his current show, "No
Reservations") because of the creative restrictions the Foodnetwork tried to
impose. The first season of the latter show was 'underproduced' in my
opinion and focused too much on 'travel' and not enough in the victuals,
with not enough money for post-productio editing and effects. This changed
in the second season and the Travelchannel realized that their highest rated
show was going to go 'Golden' as they say in the bizz..and so poured more
investement into the shows post-production. Thus the great Cleveland episode
(one caveat is that he *failed* to be brought to Syman's Jewish deli in
Cleveland, one of the finest delis i've ever been too and I say this as a
born and bred New Yorker!) with the cartoons brought in and Pekar's
wonderful and understated quips, usually at Tony Bourdain's expense: "Is
this guy gonna pay me? He makes more in one episode than I do all year for
gods sakes".

I might add that one of the most controversial episodes is when Bourdain
went on a seal hunt in the Hudson Bay with some indigenous people. IF that
wasn't 'bad enough' for militant pro-animal activists, he was offered the
delicacy of the seal, eaten raw on the floor of the family's house, a raw
seal eyeball. He was criticized for:
1. showing this on  television
2. participating in a seal hunt
3. participating in the devouring of the raw seal

In his defense, unconditional in this respect, is that the show did warn
viewers of what was going down. This is actually part of the culture of the
people and the seals themselves are not endangered at all by this form of
hunting. Was it gross to my Western, NY bred eyes? Absolutely. But I admire
Bourdains adventurism in this culinary journey because he delved *into* and
*participated* in a not unimportant aspect of this native American culture
and brought it, in all it's glory, to those same Western sensibilities that
would be viewing the show.

David
PS...about 6 years ago I hosted a Salon at Bourdain's restaurant in
Manhattan for some of the participants on this list (no seal eye balls but
some great French cuts of steak).

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Re: [Marxism] Anthony Bourdain on Harvey Pekar

[DW]

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I've been a big Bourdain booster since reading his now famous essay in the
New Yorker on the reality of cooking in NY's vast restaurant empire. The
essay became the basis of his book "Kitchen Confidential". He's slowly been
conservatized to the degree that such a thing is measurable in the genre of
entertainment he presents his audience but his 'truth' from his perspective
is still very honest. When he said he as "as much an anti-Imperialist as the
next guy..." quip he shies away from this now. However when he does his now
"product placement" for the American Express card that started with the last
season of his show there is an obvious "BS" glint in his eyes. He noted as
much on his blog that "sold out", it's all BS and it comes with the
territory of commercial television. All true.

But his "anti-Imperialism" has given way to making peace with "The Man".
This was clear when he was accidently in Beruit when the Israelis invaded.
This was actually one of his better shows, completely off script even if it
shows him and his crew being "rescued" by US Marines. His indictment of the
US Embasssy staff in Beruit was one of the funniest, *real* bits I've ever
seen. You can't make this shit up and there he was showing the sheer
incompetence of the US State Dept as bumbling bureaucrats and secret wannabe
CIA yes-men. But his effusive praise of the Marines was gut turning for me,
albeit it came by it out of the rather wretches circumstances of filming
from the top of their hotel the Israelis blast apart South Beirut, something
I doubt the Israelis were particularly happy about seeing them exposed like
this.

His approach to food is one shared by a lot of people. And he speaks his
mind. He has received the ire of vegans the world over for his sometimes
accurate analysis exposing how some food "lifestyles" are, *ofent* nothing
more than "fads" for the middle class. He went after actor Woody Harrelson
for going to Thailand and *refusing* to partake in a meal offered by local
peasants because he was "into raw food only". Believing as Bourdain does
that one of the strongest ways to understand a local culture is through it's
food, he has become a world street food afficianodo extrordinaire. His
episodes on the street food of Hanoi and Mexico City were astounding and
"counter-tourist" for most who are usually warned away from such culinary
adventures.

To a certain degree, Bourdain is the Pekar of food, thoroughly individualist
in perspective yet presenting what many of us actually feel but are unable
to articulate in a mass media.

David

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[Marxism] Thoughts on BP

[DW]

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I was watching the latest attempt to slow down the flow with a new cap.
Seems to be working, at least it hasn't fallen off, cracked or simply
failed, yet.

A guy who was an ex-oil company exec, a liberal sort on Keith Olberman's how
tonight (He writes from Huffington Post) was wondering why this wasn't done
*months ago*. He noted that these sorts of things are lying around oil
companies everywhere and they are made of standard components. I've worked
with all the same components of this "christmas tree" latch-up myself in my
pipefitting and power plant days. It's essentially a bunch of high pressure
pipe and flanges, butt-welded and bolted together. Probably schedule-80 pipe
good up to about 900psi or something similar depending on diameter. Anyway,
the whole thing can be bolted together and welded up in about a day.
So...what gives? Why didn't they get this into place earlier. It is this
device that will stem the flow of oil most of the way down before they tap
the actual bore-hole to fill with mud and junk to permanently seal it up.
This is certainly a valid question.

More on the specifics...there appears, according the oil exec guy, a part of
the device that is made of a flexible hose. I *suspect* these are the same
kind of hoses used to offload and load up, oil tankers. They are made of a
very strong synthetic rubber compound that is supposed to withstand a high
pressure oil pump turning on full-pressure. I don't know what that would
mean, perhaps someone who worked in an oil refinery on the list might know.
I've worked with them too but ours were only rated up to 300 psi.
This guy is  concerned because if the device twists and turns to much, it
could rupture this flexible piece (probably a spool piece similar in size
and shape to the steel ones that make up the device) especially as the
pressure build ups as they get it ready to connect to the lines that are
bringing up a lot of the oil right now.

Politically we should 'talk up' expropriation of BP and all off shore oil
drilling. Won't happen any time soon but it could spark a lot of discussion.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Socialists Unite: Statement from Workers World Party & FIST

[DW]

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My experience is different than that of Andy's with both WWP and PSL. On the
West Coast, the dominent force among these two small groups is the PSL, not
WWP. Thus, ANSWER plays an unusually large role in the general
anti-Imperialist movement. Over the years, they, PSL and ANSWER have moved
away from sectarian 'take over' and dominating style of front work toward
less sectarian arrangements with other groups on the left and in the
community.

The recent anti-Zionist action on the docks in Oakland is the most recent
case. The PSL through ANSWER called a general community meeting to organize
our response to the arrival of an Israeli ship after the call went out by
the Palestinian trade union movement to boycott Israeli shipping in response
to the murderous attack on the peace folitla to Gaza.

The meeting was run by PSL but...open to anyone with pre-arranged speakers
from...members of WWP and other groups who united around this action. It was
a model for united front type actions and PSL's unsectarian stance accounted
for this. Everyone without exception was able to speak, make proposals, etc.
The WWP has a leading supporter in the ILWU which certainly helps smooth
over differences. Additionally, everyone was encouraged to participate in
security and the left, and community groups and unions came together to
bring about a very succesful event.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Anarchists' perception of Trotsky

[DW]

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I agree basically with what Mark L. wrote however it is not an abstraction,
at all. Anarchism of a million varieties are very common around the world
and, in our recent budget battle in California, they were the *largest*
'trend' among radicalizing students, at least in No. California which was
the heart of the movement. It is more than an "inspiration" but a serious,
damn, ultra-left trend of very important impact. Probably only in California
and not the rest of the US but it's serious shit out here. Just about every
major debate over tactics involved one wing dominated by the anarchist
inspried youth.

I only wish the anarchist were more like the historic anarcho-syndicalists
who at least beleived IN organization and didn't shun it.

David

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[Marxism] What Brazil and Iran have in common on nuclear power,

[DW]

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I think this was an excellent article that Fred posted. It is probably the
most concise and percise parsing of the US propaganda assault against Iran's
civilian nuclear development I've seen in print. I highly recommend this
piece to anyone who has questions about Iran and nuclear power and weapons
issue.

David

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Re: [Marxism] Prospects

[DW]

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I liked Shane's description of energy. It is very accurate IMHO. But it is
flawed at the point where he thinks the 'sun' can provide the power we need
and that capitalism inability to produce large amounts from it shows that
capital is unable to reproduce...I think this is a wee bit of stretch.

Energy is best when it's 'dense'. There is a reason farmers in the US gave
up, with pleasure, the solar power collected by wind turbine to pump
water...and substituted it with solar energy created by (Federally owned and
provided) hydro electricity. It's called energy density. The density is what
allowed you to actually pump water when you want or need it, not when the
wind decided it was time. Denser forms of energy are what advanced human
civilization and makes electricity powering your computer...all the time,
24/7. No matter how much conservation, efficiency, etc we need base load
electricity to power civilization.

Energy usage is not free. It takes energy to make energy. There is an
investment which ends up as a 'cost'. That cost is there whether it is
motivated for the pursuit of surplus value or for use value. There is a much
higher cost in make diffuse energy dense enough, and stored easily enough,
that it is actually useful. That it can, for example, build a grid in an
undeveloped country to lift nations out of poverty. Wind turbines and solar
collectors won't do that, at all. The goal, metaphorically and literally, is
that everyone should have a right to a light switch. On/off, when you need
it. Short of that, the Amory Lovins fantasies are just that: fantasies.

The bigger question right now in light of the Gulf disaster, is that I heard
talking-heads-yahoos use the gulf disaster as a reason to build wind mills
in the Gulf. This is stupid anti-science at work. You are not going to put
wind in automobiles, nor electricity from solar cells or nuclear plants.
It's not gonna happen anytime soon and most people do understand that.

So we need a *massive* infusion of R&D monies to develop truly long range
batteries for cars and trucks. A national plan to develop better and faster
freight lines to take trucks off the road. More public transit (although
that is also a more or less utopian dream as fewer than 6% of Americans take
public transit now. Even if you doubled the network and made it free, it
will still not stop people from using their vehicles *anytime soon*). We
will be burning gasoline for *decades* whether one likes it or not.

David

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Re: [Marxism] comment following on from Fascism thread

[DW]

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Hi Gary,
 I have to disagree with most of what you write (or what you agree with what
Waistline wrote).

First (in reverse order) Israel is not a 'colony' of the US. I'm not sure
why you state it is, perhaps you can explain. Israel itself is an
Imperialist power, albeit a small one economically, not so small militarily.
We can discuss this as I'd be interested in your POV on this and will
reserve comment on Israel's relationship with the US until you reply.

I think it is most definitely NOT a liability. If it was you'd see some move
away from support, unconditional support, for Israeli actions, beyond the
historically "Arab lobby" folks that are still a politically isolated sect
of the US ruling class. There is no fundamental change in Israel's
relationship to the US as a close, important ally. It's the one area I agree
with Zionist analysis of: There is no better ally of the US than Israel in
the Middle East. As America's stationary aircraft carrier for all it's
imperialist machinations, Israel is there for the US when ever the US needs
a friend.

Placing oneself in the imperialist mindset, while distasteful, is
objectively and important exercise. Waistline is wrong to think that the
'problem' of US-Arab relations stems from US support for Zionism. It does
not. Imperialism still relies on regime relationships. Since Camp David,
Jordan and Egypt are not *allies* of Israel. What the Arab street thinks is
wholly irrelevant so long as these regimes remain above US criticism of
their repressive apparatus. They are toady-capitalist counties that have
done just fine repressing their own masses and parleying their new
international stature and friendship with Israel into 'respect' among NATO
and other imperialist institutions. This means that US imperialism benefits
as well.

Israel always represents the 'unknown' wild-man card in Imperialist politics
there. They represent a constrained threat (constrained by the US, see US
'holding back' the IDF from attacking Iraq in 1992 during the first gulf
war) that is easily unleashed on Arab countries that pull to hard on their
puppet strings. See Iran today. How is this, *at all* a 'liability'?

David

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Re: [Marxism] Christian Fascism in the USA?

[DW]

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Waistline2 wrote:
"Fascism - bourgeois rule, seeks destruction of the
bourgeois democratic republic based on preserving new forms private property
and
private wealth as a social power. .."

So..."Fascism" exists as all forms of rule by the bourgeoisie or just one
particular one. This statement seems to see "Fascism" entirely as a distinct
entity.

My point to Michael, as yet unanswered, is why he even uses this term at
all? What IS the point of using it? It's entirely an emotional term without
political content OR context (Waistline at least makes an attempt to
historically contextualize it but loses it in his own verbiage). Like Louis
I use the historical Marxist use of the term, where fascism, above all, is
"reaction" and doesn't exist, really, as an independent ideological
expression capable of going this way or that. It doesn't. Fascism, real
fascism, is not something that capitalism 'natural' aspires too but is 'last
resort'. You don't turn around or wake up and say "Hey, we now live under
fascism". Doesn't happen like that.

I think this is the real issue here. Obviously the US is not fascist, in
fact it's Liberal Democratic in the most exacting definition of THOSE terms
and any repression or 'fascist like' expressions by the State are in THAT
tradition and not the fascist one. With accusations of fascism thrown about,
it of course raises the issue of what is NOT fascist? The old CP line was
like that, as if when capitalists repressed communists in the US, this was
fascist and only if it weren't so then the gov't is 'progressive'.

The level of the class struggle and the *way* in which the US capitalist
state is run, there would be no apparent reason to head toward fascism, at
all. Unions have never been weaker, the left never smaller and
un-influential as a part of society and aside from the capitalists own
crisis, nothing in the US threatens their rule.

Capitalism is most profitable with various forms of bourgeois democratic
rights in effect. Fascism is remarkably unprofitable. It is only used to
stamp out the workers movement not because "it can" but because such a
movement, however expressed, is a threat to the *rule* and *power* of the
capitalists. So there no 'degree' of fascism in the US, it's liberal
democracy at work, which includes a genocidal foreign policy based on
globalized capital investment and trade, war and austerity abroad;
de-regulation, privatization, racism at home. This is not fascism folks,
it's your every day, liberal inspired capitalist democracy and THIS is what
needs to be opposed, not the wlly-nilly use of words like "Fascism" to
describe liberal US democracy in crisis.

David

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[Marxism] Labor Action in Oakland Stops Israeli Ship

[DW]

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Thanks to Adam for posting the short piece from the SF Chronically.

Hundreds (several counts showed at least 500 people at any one time,
probably 2 to 3 times that many at various points) started showing up at 5am
in the morning at the docks in Oakland (including Adam and myself).

The picket was organized out of a Weds. night organizing meeting of 100 or
so activists with ANSWER providing the venue for the event. IT was a true
united left and labor event within the context of the 'community', meaning
the large Palestinian community in the Bay Area.

Spurred on by 3 resolutions from the Alameda (Oakland), SF and ILWU Local 10
condemning Israel for it's attacks on the flotilla, the turn out at this
mid-week, two day notice meeting was impressive. Supporters and participants
in other similar actions...the 1984 boycott of the S. African ship that
helped spur on the international anti-Apartheid movement that year, the
Neptune Jade beef were a scab ship was sent packing after having docked at
Liverpool, retired members of Local 10 and other ILWU members talked about
the need to exert extreme discipline on the picket line as the members of
Local 10 are our allies, not our enemies, brothers and sisters in
solidarity, etc.

There were 4 gates all of which were covered with massive picket lines
making it impossible for anyone to cross. This is what we needed for Local
10 members not cross. It should be noted that we all had 3 words in the back
our heads that made this some what tenuous: the "Oakland Police Department".
In 2003 when the war against the Iraqi and Afghani people started a massive,
unorganized call went out for a protest at the docks. Thousands of
protesters showed up...and were shot at by the police with their new
'powers' given to them by the US government. The OPD just opened up with
shot guns firing wooden dowels which caused massive injuries on dozes of
peaceful protesters.

ANSWER and other organizers met with the cops prior to the picket during the
week. The OPD wanted a new image, especially with the various police
shootings in the Bay Area, including Oakland, and the OPD's reputation for
massive over-kill in their response to what are civil violations of
injunctions or trespassing. Their presence was 'normal' and copying the
SFPD's policy of *hiding* their SWAT teams, shot-gun toting OPD cops were no
where to be seen. In fact they had actual 'negotiators'...with "Negotiator"
stitched onto their uniforms, at the picket line politely talking with
organizers about staying out of the road as we blocked the trucks and cars
from entering the Berths.

Co-coordinating a massive picket at 4 locations with the highly diverse
political and organizational make up was bumpy at first but worked well
eventually as runners went between picket lines. Special squads of labor
militants were dispatched to talk with members of Local 10 and other ILWU
locals and non-ILWU locals where were respecting our picket line.

There were no Zionist counter-demonstrators (which would of clearly worked
to our advantage) as there usually are at past anti-Zionist pro-Palestinian
demonstrations.

I write this 30 minutes before the next shift of picketers is due to show up
in time for the 6pm (PST) shift in case the ship tries to dock later
tonight.

A shout out to ANSWER and all the organizers for pulling this off in a real
show of unity.

D. Walters

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Re: [Marxism] Christian Fascism in the USA?

[DW]

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Perhaps all is Fascist and it's up to us to list, detail and otherwise prove
what is not Fascist? Anyone?

This is a preposterous discussion. Michael, is a "little bit fascist" like
"a little bit pregnant?" Don't you think words, terms, have meaning? Do you
like the term fascist for all-that-is-even-vaguely-repressive? Why do you
use the term? What do you consider 'Fascist'? Why do you use the term? Why
not just say "capitalist repression"? What not just "repressive"? Why are
you vested in this term that is so obviously not applicable, yet, to what is
going on in the US today?

David

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Re: [Marxism] Only worse

[DW]

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Well...Les, you asking Joaquin "why?" leftists jump into conspiracy theories
about the Gulf disaster? We do sort of deal with this whenever 9/11 pops up.
I actually agree with everything Joaquín wrote on this issue of the Gulf
spill...he was pointedly correct on every aspect of this disaster. I almost
wish, however, he didn't raise it again since now we'll have a discussion
*again* about it (which I am contributing too by even commenting on it!).

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[Marxism] The fascist danger in the USA [was: Re : Yes, indeed: what is Fascism?]

[DW]

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I think Joaquin is simply pandering to populist lingo with his defense of
the term "Fascist". I only read his first 10 paragraphs, perhaps he explains
this more further down. I don't usually follow such threads either, BTW.
People seem to have emotional investment in the use of the term "Fascist".
The CP was famous for calling Nixon a "Fascist" (in their totally legal
newspaper, at their street meetings never once broken up by a fascist mob or
from the repressive apparatus of the state, etc). People use to term
*purely* for it's emotional effect, like calling Obama a "Socialist". Fine.
If you want to denude the meaning of the term, by all means, just recognize
that when you use any political term willy-nilly, you are simply not making
any sort of political argument at all. It's kind of the "Ah...I see, US
Imperialist slaughter is "Fascist", well, that just takes it, I'm now
AGAINST US Imperialism. IF only if were NOT "Fascist" I could continue to
support it. Thanks for clearing that up..." It's all just a term used for
catharsis. Makes 'ya feel better, too.

Interesting Joaquin's oxymoronic use of the term "linguistic fascism" (to
paraphrase not directly quote him) is interesting. Linguists rarely try to
say there is ONE specific meaning for a term, but rather the 'meaning' of
the term "as it's used". Thus the general defense of language dialects by
linguists and against standardization. However, probably he means to charge
the term 'fascist' to the General Semanticists, many of whom did in fact
have nice, strong, Fascist affiliations. They believe/believed in the
"intrinsic" right and wrong of the use of terms". The concept of the "Kings
English" as the only legitimate form of spoken English comes from them, not
linguists.

David

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Re: [Marxism] "Climategate" Researchers Largely Cleared

[DW]

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David S. perhaps I overstated your view...I'm sure you and Louis are opposed
to the use of coal as a means of generating electricity AND that you are
aware of at least the bigger problems with its use. However it is also true
that you let it pass without a comment...or did I miss a post on the
question of coal use AND that compared to nuclear, the risk of coal deaths
is far worse. Or not. Either way you have NOT commented on it or addressed a
solution to it that I'm aware. Bullshit? I think not. And certainly in terms
of Louis's case, he comes back with an ultra-left position that argues, it
seems, unless address the underlying capitalist cause of all this mess, we
shouldn't be offering solutions.

Yet,he stated he doesn't oppose wind power construction but does coal plant
production. Why? What's the point? Where is the solution? He writes " The
problems of whether to "go nuclear" or "go fossil" are not the ones facing
the radical movement." Really? Where have you been Louis? The ENTIRE radical
movement is debating this issue. When I say "we" I mean the people of the
US. What do "we" do? Do do nothing which is what I infer from you is the
only position? No, socialists should be fighting for solutions to the energy
crisis and climate crisis. We should be *demanding* things like *better*
unpolluting energy sources. We should be *demanding* an end to table-topping
of West Virginia's mountains. And we should be demanding the US gov't both
take over the energy industry in this country, run in the interests of the
people and massively build out non-carbon energy sources that can provide
cheap and abundant power.

Jim, what "massive subsidies"? Most of the subsidies referred to are lumped
together with the Manhattan Project (which had zero to do with nuclear
energy), nuclear weapons and nuclear propulsion for Navy ships in the 1950s
(which nuclear energy derived *from* as a byproduct). Most of the deaths
(and all that I know of) in uranium mining occurred during mining for the
frantic rush to develop plutonium for US Nuclear WMD and not nuclear energy.
We should never, ever, let that happen again: either that type of mining or
develoment of nuclear weapons). But what did we get from those
'subsidies'...20% of our energy that is non- carbon. The 'subsidies' for
direct nuclear energy (mostly in R&D) have more than paid for themselves
several dozen times over. So as a 'social investment'...it was a good one.
just like hydro power or the TVA. The only long term solution of course is
to move toward a movement that seeks to take over the electrical energy
production industry in the US, similar to our ill-fated effort here in San
Francisco 10 years ago.

Along these lines PG&E is pushing now create a "2/3 majority vote" for any
municipal or other government entity to take over any private utility via
Proposition 16 on the ballot this year, a hugely anti-democratic measure.

David

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Re: [Marxism] "Climategate" Researchers Largely Cleared

[DW]

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David S (and Louis) I'm not accusing you of "supprting coal". No one on this
list (albeit the CPI-ML does to a limited extent) does to my knowledge
unless there is an ANCer who holds their party position on this (thank to
Patrick for bringing this up). That wasn't my reason for bringing it up. I
raised it because it IS the issue and people are dancing around it. If they
are not dancing they are in *effect* ignoring it. The issue of nuclear and
renewables can (outside the overall political context of capitalist
solutions, or better put, solutions under capitalism) be distilled down to
what can effectively be used to phase out these huge carbon producing
sources of energy.

South Africa is interesting because it's large coal-into-gasoline refinery
is, supposedly, the largest single source of human made CO2 in the world
today. South Africa, and the ANC gov't that leads it, proposed building a
network of nuclear plants in order to mitigate relying on coal for energy
production. IMO, this was a correct move. They simply can't finance it or
chose not and instead it is trying to meet it energy shortagesreal
energy shortages which are expected to increase vastly as more people plug
into the grid...and so are now going to build coal fired power plants. That
is the issue. It is simply not enough to say "no" as much as we want to but
to come up with real solutions. Renewables are not going to make it, IMO,
and SA does need to expand it's grid and bring more people into it.
Development of SA under *any* social system is going to require massive
amounts of cheap abundnt energy. There is simply no getting around this.

IMO and many like me believe that if we don't go nuclear we go fossil.
Countries like Germany (planning to phase out nuclear and build coal
plants!) and SA are moving in the *wrong* direction.

David P. and Mark L: I agreethe 'movement' of the class struggle defines
our activities, generally and thus even though there are thousands of
so-called "energy activists" they exist primarily as adjuncts to
NGOs/non-profits or local coalitions dealing with local energy and pollution
problems. I spent 99% of my own political activity the last 6 months
building for the March 4th budget cut strikes and actions in California. But
developing an understanding of the "immediate" actions we need to take now
to stem off climate disaster down the road still is important and we need to
address these issues of what works and what wont'.

Mark L: no one has died in nuclear energy plant or becuse of one in the US
that I'm aware of. Clearly the real risk is minimal as to our health and
well being and any statistic on this will prove this. Coal kills up t 30,000
people a year and is in fact the biggest cause of heavy metal pollution
(including uranium!) in the US (and other countries) and yet you know if
nuclear did this there would be a massive revulsion to it. Few on the left
are really raising the issue of phasing out coal and it's unfortunate. For
every nuclear power plant a coal plant was not built. This cannot be said of
roof top solar or a single wind turbine. So we need to seriously address the
risks and ability of the proposals to mitigate coal and natural gas
factually.

Louis P. I never worked at a nuclear plant. I've mentioned this on numerous
occasions. Senior moment?

David

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Re: [Marxism] "Climategate" Researchers Largely Cleared

[DW]

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David S. No, neither does nuclear nor has it ever caused anyone to be
"buried in a lead box". This is the huge popular disconnect with a sound
debate over, say, climate change and. one dealing with nuclear energy. you
prove the point by negative example. Nuclear energy has killed less people
than any baseload power. 5 operators are killed, blown up at a gas turbine
plan Ct. last montt, but because the Green movement is currently in love in
with natural gas, you don't hear anything about this. If an operator stubs
his toe in a nuclear plant, you'd hear about it all over the world. You as
just as susceptible to such nonsense it seems as the Greens.

The *fact* that coal power and other fossil power has killed far more than
commercial nuclear doesnt seem to phase you or Louis at all. 5 people killed
in Connecticut are 5 more than ever killed in any US nuclear plant in 50
years of operation and you bring up a 'maybe...'???. How many areas have
been made "unlivable" or nuclear waste spread over it? ZERO. This is the
disconnect I mentioned above. 20% of the US electrical generation is
essentially carbon free *thanks to nuclear energy*. We are facing a huge
carbon caused climate crisis and you don't seem to understand risk
assessment...at all.

This brings up to Louis comments since his comments sort of center any
discussion on energy. And that's what the discussion is really about: how to
produce energy and whether it is around the ability of 'wind turbines' vs
coal vs gas vs solar vs nuclear, and so on. If people on this list were to
do the research required to see what it would take to zero out fossil energy
production, you'd find 'wind mills and solar energy' would not be able to do
this. in fact. the more wind energy there is the tendency is to build more
fossil plants for back up. The rather disgusting joined at the hip natural
gas industry with the wind industry should be raising eyebrows among the
left and on this list specifically but it does not. We are never going to
ween ourselves off of fossil without nuclear energy. That's the conclusion
*more and more* on the left have arrived at: that so called 'alternatives'
are nothing more than a fanstasy that best sounds good and at worse will
keep us on fossil fuel addiction for ever.

David

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Re: [Marxism] "Climategate" Researchers Largely Cleared

[DW]

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Well, Louis answered seriously to my last comment. OK.

 Louis writes that "...I advocate unrelenting, militant criticisms of all
capitalist energy
production based on oil, coal or atomic energy. Period".

Fair enough. But as everyone...i mean "everyone" is jumping into "Green
economics" and it is what is touted by almost all climate change activists
how about "capitalist energy production based on sun, wind and tidal...".
The laregest wind and solar producers in the US for the electrical grid are
all capitalist ones (or, possibly, public power entities like Caliornia
based SMUD". Are you "militantly opposed" to this too?

The same companies that make coal equipment and lobby for it's use are also
the *exact* same companies that lobby for solar and wind and it's use. It's
all the same capitalist solutions. So...when, say, FPL makes a bid to
produced a 500MW farm...you are "militantly opposed" or do you see this as
"OK"?

David

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Re: [Marxism] "Climategate" Researchers Largely Cleared

[DW]

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Well, once you move to the "left" and away from actual science, I have to
admit, it certainly gets more interesting. Of course few of the groups
mentioned (and none that i actually know of) have done an indept analysis of
energy alternatives to fossil. Certainly a group like the IMT (Woods) has
done an *indept* analysis of climate change denial (the most extensive one
I've ever seen by any left group (last year in a 5 part series). They've
done ZERO on energy alternatives, however, and show a centrigugally
impressionist POV with regards to this when put to the question. Socialist
Action has also done something similiar. But yes, the in the *western* left,
the list Lou derives his understanding of the "left" comes from, most groups
do have a anti-nuclear perspective even if it is mostly derived from
historical momentum from the 1970s and cemented in place by a sympathy for
various "Green economic" agendas from various NGOs. I would argue that a
large number of Western left groups have taken *no* position on this
question at all.

So, on the left I can count Hugo Chavez, and be extension, the ruling PSUV,
who are seeking to build a nuclear infrastructure with help from Russia. I
think they get that their"carbon communism' in Venezuela is having something
of a detrimental effect on the climate, even if it's a relatively small one.
I suspect it's not even up for discussion in that no one is really
'debating' the question for now. Their over reliance on hydro energy is
subject to the very same climatic changes we are all seeing and has caused
power shortages there: they burn a lot of gas and oil as well to make up for
shortfalls...thus their wanting to use advanced nuclear energy as a way of
mitigating it. Excellent.

The left in the developing world is a lot less knee-jerk than the Western
left is, understanding that energy is necessary for development, especially
one that is carbon-free/low-carbon in effects.

Nevertheless there is a real lack of scientific inquery on the left
generally.

On the Right, groups like the Charles Koch and the libertarian right wing
CATO Institute oppose nuclear energy. There are probably a lot more. None of
this btw, is at all relevant to the use of nuclear energy or any solution to
both the energy crisis and the climate crisis. Every fossil company in the
U.S. has touted "climate change" now, in an attempt to co-opt "Green
sentiment". Does this make Cheveron touting wind mills and BP "supporting"
solar make either of these 'wrong solutions'? Of course not (please note
that not ONE of these companies supports nuclear and infact doesn't want to
talk about it...at all). Yet I don't try to associated support for wind or
solar with these right wing Fortune 500 companies. Science is not a question
of popularity, it's a question of facts. That the left in the west has
jumped on the "Renewable" bandwagon is hardly an endorsement of any solution
based on science. In fact, while I abhor the Deniers in the debate around
climate, I don't associate any solution based on what groups support which
solution, but rather which one offers the most *effective*  one. Like some
other issues, as well, its a shame that the "right" has often a better
understanding of both science and politics than what passes for the "The
Left". Louis included.

David

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Re: [Marxism] "Climategate" Researchers Largely Cleared

[DW]

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For newer members to the list, Louis is in denial about the actual
'popularity' of nuclear energy is society at large including those on this
list. In fact, he won't allow a real discussion on it, probably because he
doesn't want to take the time to learn a thing about it, and relies on goof
balls like Harvey Wasserman to think for him. The majority of those that
have expressed an opinion on the subject out of this list of "1300" are
about TEN. Of those about 2/3 oppose nuclear energy as part of a solution to
the climate crisis. Again, Louis has an aversion to science and method,
don't let it bother you. You'll also notice his way of arguing is to raise
strawman arguments that are irrelevant to the points made. He prefers the
"What He REALLY Means..." method of arguemenation. Probably something he
learned from his days as a stalwart "Cannnonite"

David

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Re: [Marxism] "Climategate" Researchers Largely Cleared

[DW]

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Lou is, of course correct against Shawns climate denialism but he makes a
typical layman's mistake in method. "Atomic radiation" is not safe or
dangerous. It's always a question of "distance, dosage and time". Like
chocholate, which people will argue "can be" dangerous, generally it is not
when over time people only consumed in moderate amounts, be basically
neutral in it's effect on the human body. Eat it 3 times a day for your
entire life, the discussion changes. The same is true with radiation
regardless of the source. Radiation, as such, is biologically neutral
depending on the dosage we receive (we receve about 300 mrem a year). If I
dumped you at Chernobyl a few days after the the accident, that would be a
whole different story.

David

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[Marxism] Howard Zinn dies, 87

[DW]

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http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/01/howard_zinn_his.html

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Re: [Marxism] Report on China role in Africa on Foreign Affairs site-

[DW]

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I actually think both reports are quite mutually inclusive aspects of
Chinese state-capitalist foreign policy. On the one hand, Fred's report
shows a very accurate accounting of general investment policies in
developing countries which are based not on WTO standards of free trade but
on bilateral trade agreements with strong development infastructure projects
with no immediate or even intermediate Imperialist extraction of surplus
value and has long term value-added industrial potential for the country in
question and on the other hand: an increase in exploitation, lowering of
labor standards, destruction of labor organizations, etc.

The question, unanswered: are these macro-development agreements based on
specific exemptions from existing labor codes and prevailing wage or...are
they simply re-enforcing existing *lack* of standards in these countries?...
do the Chinese actively suppress or *require* as a condition for these
agreements the suppression of workers organizations?

DW

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Re: [Marxism] WSWS: Socialism and the defense of public education

[DW]

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Well, with respect to Thomas B. and JBit's interesting to see attacks on
public education...coming from Marxists. I get enough of that from
right-wing pro-privatization in my county where I live in California. I'm
sure, if we look hard enough, we will see similarities, someplace, between
the San Mateo School District curriculum and the 19th Century Prussian
military oriented education.

So...I assue that my son, while in high school, never learned logic, trig,
alegebra, American history that focused on the struggles of working people,
blacks and Latinos for civil rights? Hmm...I'll let him know it was all an
illusion and he should of stayed home or he would of turned into a little
Junker. I'm afraid that what I read from JB is 'academic' in the worst sense
of the word and, hardly a guide to action about anything in education. We'll
have to tell to the students at UC (and my son's community collage) that all
their calls to end the budget cuts are, well, frowned on by Herr Marx.

>From the COMMUNIST MANIFESTO on what communist would like see under
communism:

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of
children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with
industrial production, &c, &c.
[
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm]

But I suppose we have to wait for communism and keep our kids home until
then...

David

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