Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
LarryT wrote: > And to make one more stretch of the assumption - and say *all* gassers are > better than *all* diesels - and if this change in the longevity & > maintanence of gas and diesel engines is industry wide, will we see big 18 > wheelers changing to big gas engines? Or will they be staying with diesels > for the torque to pull heavy trailers? > You can't really draw a comparison between the high-speed diesels in cars and the medium-speed diesels in heavy trucks. They're totally different animals. Torque isn't really the issue -- you can make any torque value you want with proper gearing. Trucks use medium-speed diesel engines because they offer efficiency that isn't found in other practical powerplants. If something else was cheaper to run you can bet they'd switch. Ships use low-speed diesels for the same reason. The figures for the low-speed, two-stroke diesels used on container ships are pretty amazing -- some can reach 50% thermal efficiency.
Re: [MBZ] voice recognition/no clue owner No MB Content
Use a noise canceling microphone (headset) then TV noise will not make a difference. A noise canceling microphone is basically a microphone that has a sound opening on both sides of the diaphragm. Thus with the microphone close to the mouth, 1-2 inches the difference in pressure between the front opening and rear is significant and the microphone picks up the voice. When the sound is far away >2-3 feet the pressure difference between front and rear openings of microphone are about equal and thus will not pick up the sound. Most all cell phones these days have noise canceling microphones, to check look for sound opening on back of handset. When I worked at Ericsson I did a lot of testing on noise canceling microphones, for such a simple device they work amazingly well. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 4:21 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] voice recognition/no clue owner No MB Content does the background need to be quiet? I generally have TV or radio playing in the background - I guess the volumn makes all the difference. I can see how it would become addictive once the puter learned your voice patterns. I can type pretty fast but speaking - even slowly and precisely would be *much* faster. I need to did out my old version - better yet, buy a new version to get it a true test. Have you tried to update your copy? Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: "wilton strickland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 2:02 PM Subject: [MBZ] voice recognition/no clue owner > LarryT, right now I'm using Dragon version 4; I started with version 1 > couple of years ago that a friend gave me, but I did not use it much. You > don't really need a speaker. A headset with mike came with my version, > but > the headset went bad several months ago, and I purchased a cheap headset > with mike at Staples that works fine. I've made pretty good progress > since > I really got serious about trying to use the program two to three months > ago. > > Wilton > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.8/621 - Release Date: 1/9/2007 > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Motor Stadt in Stuttgart, Germany]
Those are the Grand Prix cars of 54/55/56 IIRC. Back then, they would run a F1 car in sports car events (and vise versa) by putting a streamlined body on it - which is shown in the photo -- there were several - W154, W196 and some others - not sure how the numbers break down. Amazing machines - checkout this site: http://www.allsportauto.com/english/mercedes_w196.php for the W196 and others - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: "Werner Fehlauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Motor Stadt in Stuttgart, Germany] Rich - that "Times" article only hit the highlights. Not far from Stuttgart, another "candy factory" is the AMG plant at Affalterbach, where they do strange and wonderful things, much at customer's special orders, to products that started in Stuttgart area D-C facilities. You can also see the Smart factory designed dealership in Böblingen, and the M-B Classic Center in Fellbach. All suburbs of Stuttgart, but seemingly just part of the metro area. All these places, and the transportation museum at Sinsheim (with the Concorde and Russian SSTs on the roof!) were part of the 3 MBCA 50th anniversary tours in 2006; there are plans for more tours in 2007. Oh - the racer in the picture seems to be the superlative 1950s era Grand Prix car. Werner - Original Message - From: "Rich Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: [MBZ] The Motor Stadt in Stuttgart, Germany] Good article about all the motor museums and displays in the area. You can stop in on them when you go pick up your new SLR to drive around the Continent on spring holiday. What is that Benz racer in the front in the picture? That thing is beautiful. --R http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/travel/07journeys.html?ref=automobiles I had the photo here but it bounced ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.8/621 - Release Date: 1/9/2007
Re: [MBZ] voice recognition/no clue owner No MB Content
does the background need to be quiet? I generally have TV or radio playing in the background - I guess the volumn makes all the difference. I can see how it would become addictive once the puter learned your voice patterns. I can type pretty fast but speaking - even slowly and precisely would be *much* faster. I need to did out my old version - better yet, buy a new version to get it a true test. Have you tried to update your copy? Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: "wilton strickland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 2:02 PM Subject: [MBZ] voice recognition/no clue owner LarryT, right now I'm using Dragon version 4; I started with version 1 couple of years ago that a friend gave me, but I did not use it much. You don't really need a speaker. A headset with mike came with my version, but the headset went bad several months ago, and I purchased a cheap headset with mike at Staples that works fine. I've made pretty good progress since I really got serious about trying to use the program two to three months ago. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.8/621 - Release Date: 1/9/2007
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
By way of an initial update: Now that I've begun driving my routine commute once again (with the Mobil 1 0W30 now installed) I've noticed: (and it's early on, but I'm just so excited) Less drag when "engine braking", Easier than expected starting in chilly temps, And - here's a confusing one - more cracking and popping out the exhaust when decelerating or "engine braking". It may well be that it's just due to my exhaust system getting worse, but I don't think so. Will know more conclusively on all this as the miles go by. BTW, this is in my gasser Saab, so only an only partly MB related topic Brian 84 Saab 900 On 12/30/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've been using Mobil 1 0w40 for the last five winters. I change to M1 15w40 for the summers. I live in Northern IL. My 83 300D has 192, 000 mi. on it, and I've put about half of these miles on as the second owner. When I got the MB even after valve adjustments, gp changes, etc., I had trouble starting it in sub 25 degree weather w/o it being plugged in. After changing to M1 0w40 and keeping up with the maintenance, since I changed to synthetic, winter starting has improved greatly over the dino stuff. BTW, I may burn 3/4 of a quart of M1 every 2, 500 mi. And...the car has quieted down greatly. Just my experience. MikeN ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Motor Stadt in Stuttgart, Germany]
Rich - that "Times" article only hit the highlights. Not far from Stuttgart, another "candy factory" is the AMG plant at Affalterbach, where they do strange and wonderful things, much at customer's special orders, to products that started in Stuttgart area D-C facilities. You can also see the Smart factory designed dealership in Böblingen, and the M-B Classic Center in Fellbach. All suburbs of Stuttgart, but seemingly just part of the metro area. All these places, and the transportation museum at Sinsheim (with the Concorde and Russian SSTs on the roof!) were part of the 3 MBCA 50th anniversary tours in 2006; there are plans for more tours in 2007. Oh - the racer in the picture seems to be the superlative 1950s era Grand Prix car. Werner - Original Message - From: "Rich Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: [MBZ] The Motor Stadt in Stuttgart, Germany] Good article about all the motor museums and displays in the area. You can stop in on them when you go pick up your new SLR to drive around the Continent on spring holiday. What is that Benz racer in the front in the picture? That thing is beautiful. --R http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/travel/07journeys.html?ref=automobiles I had the photo here but it bounced
[MBZ] Diesel MPG (was: Re: Diesel vs. gasoline)
"normal" varies quite a bit. we typically see something around 20MPG in our '85 300D. of course, our idea of "normal" includes B100, and usage consists of a mix of around-town low-speed (25-30MPH) surface streets with frequent stop signs and lights, the Kombat Kommute into the Sillycon Valley (40 miles of equal parts of nothing between 75MPH+ or stop and slow), and the occasional cross-state trip with average speeds in the 80+ range (frequently with AC/Defrost engaged). i'm sure we might lose a small percentage to BioDiesel (though we haven't used enough of anything else in the last 40K miles to be sure if, or how much). we might also lose a bit to the California Car Trap Oxidizer setup (which has been updated a couple of times to stay current with whatever MBZ likes most currently), and i'm sure the higher rear differential ratio of the '85s doesn't help any with all the in-town stop-and-go. the fact that we're routinely running up and down the hills or Berkeley and the SF Bay Area can't help any either. fact is, "normal" varies too greatly to be able to be very helpful unless you're comparing vehicles in identical usage. in our version of "normal" usage, our BMW, J**p, Volvo or Toyota gassers have never seen the kind of MPG others report for similar vehicles in other peoples "normal" usage either. cheers! e Werner Fehlauer wrote: John - Yes, there are always exceptions to any general statement, but I have not met anyone who, in what would be considered "normal" driving, did not get at least 25 mpg in a M-B Diesel car. Usually, the claim is for much higher numbers. I keep pretty detailed records of fuel consumption for all my vehicles, and over a period of years, my '90D 2.5 has averaged between 30 and 31 mpg; and the '83SD has done between 27 and 29 mpg. That includes Interstate and local driving, even some infrequent MBCA track time (which lowers the average, but when you look at years, is just a ripple). Anyone who has ever been with me will attest that I have a "heavy" foot, too. If I were to see a sudden drop to 25 mpg or less, I would certainly start to look for the reason! Werner - Original Message - From: "John Robbins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline Werner Fehlauer wrote: If any M-B Diesel car gets less than 25 mpg, there is probably something wrong with the engine. Of course, it could be driving in 1st gear in the city and idling a lot, but in normal use, I would do some serious looking at the engine! I do not think you can make that blanket of a statement since driving habits have a SIGNIFICANT effect on mileage. Diesels produce horsepower with a direct relationship to injected fuel. So the more HP you use the more fuel you use. A point in case. I drive a 79 300SD, which is about ~4000lbs. I live about 4 miles from campus. I also have a part time job, which is about 3 miles from home and 2.5 miles from campus. The vehicle doesn't reach operating temperature until near the end of the trip, which also affects fuel economy. There are at least two traffic lights involved in any of the trips. I leave a traffic light or stop sign at full throttle >90% of the time. I continue at full throttle (barring pedestrians, traffic, etc) till about 10mph over (either 55mph or 40mph on the roads around here, I try to stay below 25mph on campus). Throw in the occasional trip to Wal-mart, which has a few 0-75mph in there. Basically, every mile do a 0-60 run in your car. For an entire tank. Personally, I think it is simply amazing that I get 20-21 mpg doing this. Could you imagine what my mileage would be with a 3L gasser? My driving habits may sound on the aggressive side (and they are), but a milder version of this is entirely plausible for people living in large cities (in Phoenix most people do 50-60mph on city streets and traffic lights are ~1 mile apart). I think saying that all Mercedes diesels should be able to *achieve* 25mpg is a very valid statement. Saying that something is mechanically wrong if they aren't getting 25mpg isn't as much. Not trying to beat you over or anything... just trying to very thoroughly make my point (I'm an engineer, can't help it!!). :-) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] voice recognition/no clue owner
LarryT, right now I'm using Dragon version 4; I started with version 1 couple of years ago that a friend gave me, but I did not use it much. You don't really need a speaker. A headset with mike came with my version, but the headset went bad several months ago, and I purchased a cheap headset with mike at Staples that works fine. I've made pretty good progress since I really got serious about trying to use the program two to three months ago. Wilton
[MBZ] The Motor Stadt in Stuttgart, Germany]
Good article about all the motor museums and displays in the area. You can stop in on them when you go pick up your new SLR to drive around the Continent on spring holiday. What is that Benz racer in the front in the picture? That thing is beautiful. --R http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/travel/07journeys.html?ref=automobiles I had the photo here but it bounced
Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline
John - Yes, there are always exceptions to any general statement, but I have not met anyone who, in what would be considered "normal" driving, did not get at least 25 mpg in a M-B Diesel car. Usually, the claim is for much higher numbers. I keep pretty detailed records of fuel consumption for all my vehicles, and over a period of years, my '90D 2.5 has averaged between 30 and 31 mpg; and the '83SD has done between 27 and 29 mpg. That includes Interstate and local driving, even some infrequent MBCA track time (which lowers the average, but when you look at years, is just a ripple). Anyone who has ever been with me will attest that I have a "heavy" foot, too. If I were to see a sudden drop to 25 mpg or less, I would certainly start to look for the reason! Werner - Original Message - From: "John Robbins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline Werner Fehlauer wrote: If any M-B Diesel car gets less than 25 mpg, there is probably something wrong with the engine. Of course, it could be driving in 1st gear in the city and idling a lot, but in normal use, I would do some serious looking at the engine! I do not think you can make that blanket of a statement since driving habits have a SIGNIFICANT effect on mileage. Diesels produce horsepower with a direct relationship to injected fuel. So the more HP you use the more fuel you use. A point in case. I drive a 79 300SD, which is about ~4000lbs. I live about 4 miles from campus. I also have a part time job, which is about 3 miles from home and 2.5 miles from campus. The vehicle doesn't reach operating temperature until near the end of the trip, which also affects fuel economy. There are at least two traffic lights involved in any of the trips. I leave a traffic light or stop sign at full throttle >90% of the time. I continue at full throttle (barring pedestrians, traffic, etc) till about 10mph over (either 55mph or 40mph on the roads around here, I try to stay below 25mph on campus). Throw in the occasional trip to Wal-mart, which has a few 0-75mph in there. Basically, every mile do a 0-60 run in your car. For an entire tank. Personally, I think it is simply amazing that I get 20-21 mpg doing this. Could you imagine what my mileage would be with a 3L gasser? My driving habits may sound on the aggressive side (and they are), but a milder version of this is entirely plausible for people living in large cities (in Phoenix most people do 50-60mph on city streets and traffic lights are ~1 mile apart). I think saying that all Mercedes diesels should be able to *achieve* 25mpg is a very valid statement. Saying that something is mechanically wrong if they aren't getting 25mpg isn't as much. Not trying to beat you over or anything... just trying to very thoroughly make my point (I'm an engineer, can't help it!!). :-)
Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline
Of the disels I've owned only the 72 and 75 models got over 25 mpg and this was on the highway. Every other one got mileage that matched or was close to the published Federal mileage standards (23 to 25 highway mpg) for the car. -Original Message- From: "Werner Fehlauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: 1/9/07 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline If any M-B Diesel car gets less than 25 mpg, there is probably something wrong with the engine. Of course, it could be driving in 1st gear in the city and idling a lot, but in normal use, I would do some serious looking at the engine! And as for repair costs, F.I. components in gasoline engines are very expensive - BTDT! On the other hand, both my '83SD and '90D (both with more than 220k miles) are still on their original glow plugs, injectors, starters, etc - and still start in less than 3 revolutions - but then they do have the correct synthetic oil, changing now at 10k mile intervals after oil analysis (thanks, LarryT) proved that the oil was still well within limits at that point. Werner - Original Message - From: "Jim Cathey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline > Our SDL turns in an extremely reliable 27 MPG. Sometimes a bit > less, but sometimes a bit more. Peak was 31, I think. That was > slower back roads. > > -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline
Werner Fehlauer wrote: If any M-B Diesel car gets less than 25 mpg, there is probably something wrong with the engine. Of course, it could be driving in 1st gear in the city and idling a lot, but in normal use, I would do some serious looking at the engine! I do not think you can make that blanket of a statement since driving habits have a SIGNIFICANT effect on mileage. Diesels produce horsepower with a direct relationship to injected fuel. So the more HP you use the more fuel you use. A point in case. I drive a 79 300SD, which is about ~4000lbs. I live about 4 miles from campus. I also have a part time job, which is about 3 miles from home and 2.5 miles from campus. The vehicle doesn't reach operating temperature until near the end of the trip, which also affects fuel economy. There are at least two traffic lights involved in any of the trips. I leave a traffic light or stop sign at full throttle >90% of the time. I continue at full throttle (barring pedestrians, traffic, etc) till about 10mph over (either 55mph or 40mph on the roads around here, I try to stay below 25mph on campus). Throw in the occasional trip to Wal-mart, which has a few 0-75mph in there. Basically, every mile do a 0-60 run in your car. For an entire tank. Personally, I think it is simply amazing that I get 20-21 mpg doing this. Could you imagine what my mileage would be with a 3L gasser? My driving habits may sound on the aggressive side (and they are), but a milder version of this is entirely plausible for people living in large cities (in Phoenix most people do 50-60mph on city streets and traffic lights are ~1 mile apart). I think saying that all Mercedes diesels should be able to *achieve* 25mpg is a very valid statement. Saying that something is mechanically wrong if they aren't getting 25mpg isn't as much. Not trying to beat you over or anything... just trying to very thoroughly make my point (I'm an engineer, can't help it!!). :-)
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
James wrote:< our V12 >> Amazing, you take the MB to the dealer expecting trained "technicians" to have been provided with lengthy training along with experience to be able to work on a car and ctuallt *fix* it without making things worse. I don;t have a V12 but have had similar problems. Whenever I pay someone to work on my car it always comes back either with stuff not done that should have been done, stuff broken, or unrelated things that should have been caught and corrected (and would have had I been working on it.) I guess it comes down to a shortage of young people willing to get their hands dirty - and poor training. Our local community has a deal with a local Ford dealer who hires all those who complete the auto training course at $40K per year. That was started back in the early 90s so I expect the salary has been increased by now. When I was 19, I worked as a mechanics apprentice at a VW/Porsche dealer. After I was there for a year they sent me to the "Factory" school outside of Wash DC - for a 1 week course in general repair procedures. They had 1 week courses for all kinds of specialities - transmission repair, front end service, etc. Don;t know if they still do that or not. I sure learned a lot. Back to your V12 - in a situation like this I would hope the MB dealer would stand behind the work and have it corrected - and I suspect you would demand someone else work on the car from now on. ;-) While I would hope MB would get involved they will probably use the tactic of saying the dealer is independant and must find their own mechanics. ;-\ Good luck! Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: "James Zavesky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale A cheap Mercedes has nothing to do with it. A bad mechanic can destroy an otherwise nice car. A bad mechanic at Mercedes Benz of Bedford screwed up our V12 not once but twice AND it still isn't right. Have to pull the intake off to replace the broken "Intermediate Flange" ya'd think they'd notice a problem when all the intake bolts aren't in. duh! Of course with the missing intake bolt we have a vacuum leak and with the vacuum leak you get high HC readings from the cats so it didn't pass emissions. Showed up at emissions test station with a handful of receipts and got it exempted so we were able to plate it and drive it. Still pissed - done venting. James Zavesky Well I am not saying all the gas Mercedes are bad, my mother had a 420SEL with 320K miles when it was totaled. The car never had any major problems, but she also got it with under 100k on it from original owner and all the service records. Basically I have found that a bad mechanic can really screw up the 117 engines to the point where it is not worth repairing. Thus getting back to "There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes." Trampas ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.8/621 - Release Date: 1/9/2007
[MBZ] [Fwd: The Motor Stadt in Stuttgart, Germany]
Original Message Subject:The Motor Stadt in Stuttgart, Germany Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:27:18 -0600 From: Rich Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mercedes Discussion List Good article about all the motor museums and displays in the area. You can stop in on them when you go pick up your new SLR to drive around the Continent on spring holiday. What is that Benz racer in the front in the picture? That thing is beautiful. --R http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/travel/07journeys.html?ref=automobiles
[MBZ] The Motor Stadt in Stuttgart, Germany
Good article about all the motor museums and displays in the area. You can stop in on them when you go pick up your new SLR to drive around the Continent on spring holiday. What is that Benz racer in the front in the picture? That thing is beautiful. --R http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/travel/07journeys.html?ref=automobiles
Re: [MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
Kevin, The W116 300SD also had aluminum hood and trunk lid. No replacement aluminum hoods/trunk lids were/are available in US AFAIK. All gasser versions had steel. Purpose was to reduce overall weight inasmuch as the 617.95x engines were heavier than gas 450SE's. Take care, Chuck Phoenix AZ On Jan 9, 2007, at 1:52 AM, kevin kraly wrote: I remember someone posting something a while back about how some Mercedes' have aluminum hoods. I noticed that my 300SD has both an aluminum hood and trunk lid since my trusty magnet doesn't stick to them. Is this also true for other Mercedes models? Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300SD 265K miles, Ursula ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
Didn't get Tom's original email for some reason - anyway - with that kind of history, and with the number of MB diesels involved, I wonder if Tom's experience is indicitive that MB Diesels are inferior to MB Gassers when receiving what I assume is equal care? And to make one more stretch of the assumption - and say *all* gassers are better than *all* diesels - and if this change in the longevity & maintanence of gas and diesel engines is industry wide, will we see big 18 wheelers changing to big gas engines? Or will they be staying with diesels for the torque to pull heavy trailers? Interesting comparision between the gas and diesels - I'm glad you kept all the maintanced records so the comparision can be made -- Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: "OK Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale That's quite a history. Do you buy new cars, or pre-owned ones? All of mine have been well used, and I've expected to have to catch up the maintenance. I've only owned one gas MB - the SLC, and it has been an education, though the engine technology has little to do with the problems I've had with it. On 1/9/07, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Don, I'm a high mileage driver (50K+ / year) and I've always had more maintenance issues with Mercedes diesels. I've replaced more starters (6), alternators (8) & motor mounts (5 sets) in the diesels. I've also had to replace glow plugs more often that I've had to replace spark plugs in the gassers, but I always run platinum plugs in the gassers. And don't forget the glow plug relays (4). Also, glow plugs are considerably more expensive than spark plugs. Then there have been the radiators (5), broken injector lines (3), 2 replacement vacuum pumps & 4 vacuum pump rebuilds. 2 vacuum shutoff valves, 2 of the diaphrams used to regulate the IP (1972 & 1974 diesels). I've owned 7 gassers & 8 diesels, all driven in the 135K - 300K mileage range and all pushed around 50K / year. As far as major gasser parts are concerned? I've replaced 2 alternators, 1 starter, 2 radiators and 2 belt tensioners. I've also lost 2 engines (1 gasser & 1 diesel) and 2 transmissions (also 1 gasser & 1 diesel). Belt usage has been about equal. I've yet to replace a original Mercedes radiator hose. Oil's only part of the picture - I've always changed my diesel oil at 5K miles but I change my gasser oil at 10K miles. Thanks, Tom -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/619 - Release Date: 1/7/2007
Re: [MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
There are a lot of 116 and 126 cars in use today that have steelhoods and trunk lids, after body repairs, as most shops use steel replacements for the original aluminum hoods. That's a good check to see if the car has been in a wreck! Werner - Original Message - From: "Glenn M. Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: [MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid? My '76 450SL has an aluminum hood, but steel trunk lid. G. M. Brown Rochester, NY
Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline
If any M-B Diesel car gets less than 25 mpg, there is probably something wrong with the engine. Of course, it could be driving in 1st gear in the city and idling a lot, but in normal use, I would do some serious looking at the engine! And as for repair costs, F.I. components in gasoline engines are very expensive - BTDT! On the other hand, both my '83SD and '90D (both with more than 220k miles) are still on their original glow plugs, injectors, starters, etc - and still start in less than 3 revolutions - but then they do have the correct synthetic oil, changing now at 10k mile intervals after oil analysis (thanks, LarryT) proved that the oil was still well within limits at that point. Werner - Original Message - From: "Jim Cathey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline Our SDL turns in an extremely reliable 27 MPG. Sometimes a bit less, but sometimes a bit more. Peak was 31, I think. That was slower back roads. -- Jim
[MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
My '76 450SL has an aluminum hood, but steel trunk lid. G. M. Brown Rochester, NY
Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline
Our SDL turns in an extremely reliable 27 MPG. Sometimes a bit less, but sometimes a bit more. Peak was 31, I think. That was slower back roads. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
A cheap Mercedes has nothing to do with it. A bad mechanic can destroy an otherwise nice car. A bad mechanic at Mercedes Benz of Bedford screwed up our V12 not once but twice AND it still isn't right. Have to pull the intake off to replace the broken "Intermediate Flange" ya'd think they'd notice a problem when all the intake bolts aren't in. duh! Of course with the missing intake bolt we have a vacuum leak and with the vacuum leak you get high HC readings from the cats so it didn't pass emissions. Showed up at emissions test station with a handful of receipts and got it exempted so we were able to plate it and drive it. Still pissed - done venting. James Zavesky Well I am not saying all the gas Mercedes are bad, my mother had a 420SEL with 320K miles when it was totaled. The car never had any major problems, but she also got it with under 100k on it from original owner and all the service records. Basically I have found that a bad mechanic can really screw up the 117 engines to the point where it is not worth repairing. Thus getting back to "There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes." Trampas
Re: [MBZ] license plate fun
Too funny Chuck, but not while it was happening I am sure! Rhonald 1985 300D 297,000 miles Original Message Follows From: Chuck Landenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] license plate fun Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 19:15:47 -1000 Here it is, for all the world and Andrew.. Returning from Gemutleicheit in '94?, on PA Turnpike, w/4 other Benzes... Went cough, sputter, sputter, die... (Didn't see reserve light) and created a 10-15 mile backup since breakdown lane was blocked by Jersey barriers. Tom, a 300SD buddy, went to Breezewood exit and returned down westbound, jumped median, put 2 gallons in, pumped primer, started car and I was outta' there. While this was going on, I ran back down breakdown lane and tried to get everyone to slow down. When asked, "what's wrong?", I replied "Some AH up there ran out of fuel!!!" Filled up at truck stop and semi driver looked down at me and said "You the GUY?"... Then, "Don't worry, you'll be replaced tomorrow" And that's the whole story Along with my trip into a tirewall at Summit Point, these stories will follow me forever Take care, Chuck Phoenix AZ.. On Dec 27, 2006, at 6:37 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: > You'll have to refresh my memory on that one, Chuck... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=en-US&source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=WLMTAG
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
Well I am not saying all the gas Mercedes are bad, my mother had a 420SEL with 320K miles when it was totaled. The car never had any major problems, but she also got it with under 100k on it from original owner and all the service records. Basically I have found that a bad mechanic can really screw up the 117 engines to the point where it is not worth repairing. Thus getting back to "There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes." Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Donald Snook Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 10:25 AM To: Mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale Trampas wrote: "My wife is now saying she wants a Honda mini-van as that the Mercedes are not reliable cars, note the 420SEL has been towed at least 10 times in last 5 years. I am very picky about the cars, in that I do all the repairs and will spare no expense to make it perfect, just ask Rusty. That being said, the quality of the 420SEL has made me see that a Honda might be the best thing. Currently the 560SEL which we have had for year and half is starting to shape up as a problem car, I have done everything under the sun to get the idle smooth and it still has miss and low idle. I am starting to think that the fuel distributor is leaking causing the problems." If you want a 126 gasser (that is more reliable than your 420 and 560), maybe you should get a 300SEL. The engine is a little underpowered, but very reliable (once you get the valve seal problem fixed). I really like my car (although I wish it was more powerful). If getting a more powerful 126 means trading power for reliability, then I will stick with underpowered. This is funny that this is coming up now because I just got back from a one day 400 mile speed run yesterday. I had to drive 200 miles to a hearing and turn around and drive straight back. The 126 (even with the 3.0 6 cylinder) is such a great highway car. I left a little late to arrive on time and I was really pushing it on the interstate. I almost always drive 80 mph on the interstate, but I was a little behind and I had to drive about 90 for nearly two hours minutes. Didn't phase that car at all. I got this car one year ago this month. In that time, I have put 14,000 miles on it. The only problems I have had was the (really bad design) hose from the thermostat to the block ($230) and I need to replace the monovalve. Other than that, it has been perfect. I get 20-21 mpg on the highway (although yesterday I bet it was more like 17 at 90mph.) Donald H. Snook 1990 300SEL 134K ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] CD changer info for Larry
You should be immune, your name is Gary. --R Gary Thompson wrote: I really hate it when they do stupid stuff like that just to force the average Joe to spend 3 times more for the same thing just because they can.
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
Trampas wrote: "My wife is now saying she wants a Honda mini-van as that the Mercedes are not reliable cars, note the 420SEL has been towed at least 10 times in last 5 years. I am very picky about the cars, in that I do all the repairs and will spare no expense to make it perfect, just ask Rusty. That being said, the quality of the 420SEL has made me see that a Honda might be the best thing. Currently the 560SEL which we have had for year and half is starting to shape up as a problem car, I have done everything under the sun to get the idle smooth and it still has miss and low idle. I am starting to think that the fuel distributor is leaking causing the problems." If you want a 126 gasser (that is more reliable than your 420 and 560), maybe you should get a 300SEL. The engine is a little underpowered, but very reliable (once you get the valve seal problem fixed). I really like my car (although I wish it was more powerful). If getting a more powerful 126 means trading power for reliability, then I will stick with underpowered. This is funny that this is coming up now because I just got back from a one day 400 mile speed run yesterday. I had to drive 200 miles to a hearing and turn around and drive straight back. The 126 (even with the 3.0 6 cylinder) is such a great highway car. I left a little late to arrive on time and I was really pushing it on the interstate. I almost always drive 80 mph on the interstate, but I was a little behind and I had to drive about 90 for nearly two hours minutes. Didn't phase that car at all. I got this car one year ago this month. In that time, I have put 14,000 miles on it. The only problems I have had was the (really bad design) hose from the thermostat to the block ($230) and I need to replace the monovalve. Other than that, it has been perfect. I get 20-21 mpg on the highway (although yesterday I bet it was more like 17 at 90mph.) Donald H. Snook 1990 300SEL 134K
Re: [MBZ] CD changer info for Larry
I don't believe Alpine made changers for Becker, but they do make the later changers with MB's logo on them. I've got an Alpine 631 hooked up to the original Becker head unit in my '95. Near as I could tell, the only difference between the Alpine and the MB-labeled changer was the pinout of the control cable. I really hate it when they do stupid stuff like that just to force the average Joe to spend 3 times more for the same thing just because they can. Gary Thompson Georgetown, TX 1995 E320 On 1/8/07, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Perhaps you know - Does Alpine make the changers for Becker? Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
Nope only 130k but I am not the first or second owner... Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 10:04 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale Is this a high mileage engine? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Trampas Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:01 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale I have looked for intake leaks, I have also replaced injectors, adjusted mixture, new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, etc. Tried known good idle air control valve and computer. I did find a bad throttle switch and replaced that. Things which I have yet to do include: Check valve adjustments. Change timing chain (130k miles). Check cam for wore lob. I think I am going to have to pull the engine on the car. It has too many oil leaks. Apparently the upper oil pan gasket was leaking, so at some point in the past someone put epoxy on it trying to seal it. Also the oil pressure on the car when warm hangs around 1 bar and bounces a bit. I was thinking this might lower pressure on the lifters and cause some idle problems as well as some of the slight ticking from valve train. Thus I might need to check clearances and oil pump. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:48 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale Trampas, I'd be looking for an intake air leak. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Trampas Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:38 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale There are good Mercedes and bad ones. I have a 420SEL that is an absolute lemon. I have replaced every moving part on the car, and most of the non moving ones too. My Diesel however is a worn out work horse that will not die. My wife is now saying she wants a Honda mini-van as that the Mercedes are not reliable cars, note the 420SEL has been towed at least 10 times in last 5 years. I am very picky about the cars, in that I do all the repairs and will spare no expense to make it perfect, just ask Rusty. That being said, the quality of the 420SEL has made me see that a Honda might be the best thing. Currently the 560SEL which we have had for year and half is starting to shape up as a problem car, I have done everything under the sun to get the idle smooth and it still has miss and low idle. I am starting to think that the fuel distributor is leaking causing the problems. As far as mileage 420SEL - 19-20MPG 560SEL - 15-17MPG 300SD - 22MPG (but low on compression on one cylinder) Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OK Don Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale That's quite a history. Do you buy new cars, or pre-owned ones? All of mine have been well used, and I've expected to have to catch up the maintenance. I've only owned one gas MB - the SLC, and it has been an education, though the engine technology has little to do with the problems I've had with it. On 1/9/07, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Don, > > I'm a high mileage driver (50K+ / year) and I've always had more > maintenance issues with Mercedes diesels. I've replaced more starters > (6), alternators (8) & motor mounts (5 sets) in the diesels. I've also > had to replace glow plugs more often that I've had to replace spark > plugs in the gassers, but I always run platinum plugs in the gassers. > And don't forget the glow plug relays (4). Also, glow plugs are > considerably more expensive than spark plugs. Then there have been the > radiators (5), broken injector lines (3), 2 replacement vacuum pumps & 4 > vacuum pump rebuilds. 2 vacuum shutoff valves, 2 of the diaphrams used > to regulate the IP (1972 & 1974 diesels). > > I've owned 7 gassers & 8 diesels, all driven in the 135K - 300K mileage > range and all pushed around 50K / year. As far as major gasser parts are > concerned? I've replaced 2 alternators, 1 starter, 2 radiators and 2 > belt tensioners. > > I've also lost 2 engines (1 gasser & 1 diesel) and 2 transmissions (also > 1 gasser & 1 diesel). > > Belt usage has been about equal. > > I've yet to replace a original Mercedes radiator hose. > > Oil's only part of the picture - I've always changed my diesel oil at 5K > miles but I change my gasser oil at 10K miles. > > > Thanks, > Tom > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just s
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
Is this a high mileage engine? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Trampas Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:01 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale I have looked for intake leaks, I have also replaced injectors, adjusted mixture, new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, etc. Tried known good idle air control valve and computer. I did find a bad throttle switch and replaced that. Things which I have yet to do include: Check valve adjustments. Change timing chain (130k miles). Check cam for wore lob. I think I am going to have to pull the engine on the car. It has too many oil leaks. Apparently the upper oil pan gasket was leaking, so at some point in the past someone put epoxy on it trying to seal it. Also the oil pressure on the car when warm hangs around 1 bar and bounces a bit. I was thinking this might lower pressure on the lifters and cause some idle problems as well as some of the slight ticking from valve train. Thus I might need to check clearances and oil pump. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:48 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale Trampas, I'd be looking for an intake air leak. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Trampas Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:38 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale There are good Mercedes and bad ones. I have a 420SEL that is an absolute lemon. I have replaced every moving part on the car, and most of the non moving ones too. My Diesel however is a worn out work horse that will not die. My wife is now saying she wants a Honda mini-van as that the Mercedes are not reliable cars, note the 420SEL has been towed at least 10 times in last 5 years. I am very picky about the cars, in that I do all the repairs and will spare no expense to make it perfect, just ask Rusty. That being said, the quality of the 420SEL has made me see that a Honda might be the best thing. Currently the 560SEL which we have had for year and half is starting to shape up as a problem car, I have done everything under the sun to get the idle smooth and it still has miss and low idle. I am starting to think that the fuel distributor is leaking causing the problems. As far as mileage 420SEL - 19-20MPG 560SEL - 15-17MPG 300SD - 22MPG (but low on compression on one cylinder) Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OK Don Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale That's quite a history. Do you buy new cars, or pre-owned ones? All of mine have been well used, and I've expected to have to catch up the maintenance. I've only owned one gas MB - the SLC, and it has been an education, though the engine technology has little to do with the problems I've had with it. On 1/9/07, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Don, > > I'm a high mileage driver (50K+ / year) and I've always had more > maintenance issues with Mercedes diesels. I've replaced more starters > (6), alternators (8) & motor mounts (5 sets) in the diesels. I've also > had to replace glow plugs more often that I've had to replace spark > plugs in the gassers, but I always run platinum plugs in the gassers. > And don't forget the glow plug relays (4). Also, glow plugs are > considerably more expensive than spark plugs. Then there have been the > radiators (5), broken injector lines (3), 2 replacement vacuum pumps & 4 > vacuum pump rebuilds. 2 vacuum shutoff valves, 2 of the diaphrams used > to regulate the IP (1972 & 1974 diesels). > > I've owned 7 gassers & 8 diesels, all driven in the 135K - 300K mileage > range and all pushed around 50K / year. As far as major gasser parts are > concerned? I've replaced 2 alternators, 1 starter, 2 radiators and 2 > belt tensioners. > > I've also lost 2 engines (1 gasser & 1 diesel) and 2 transmissions (also > 1 gasser & 1 diesel). > > Belt usage has been about equal. > > I've yet to replace a original Mercedes radiator hose. > > Oil's only part of the picture - I've always changed my diesel oil at 5K > miles but I change my gasser oil at 10K miles. > > > Thanks, > Tom > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
I have looked for intake leaks, I have also replaced injectors, adjusted mixture, new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, etc. Tried known good idle air control valve and computer. I did find a bad throttle switch and replaced that. Things which I have yet to do include: Check valve adjustments. Change timing chain (130k miles). Check cam for wore lob. I think I am going to have to pull the engine on the car. It has too many oil leaks. Apparently the upper oil pan gasket was leaking, so at some point in the past someone put epoxy on it trying to seal it. Also the oil pressure on the car when warm hangs around 1 bar and bounces a bit. I was thinking this might lower pressure on the lifters and cause some idle problems as well as some of the slight ticking from valve train. Thus I might need to check clearances and oil pump. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:48 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale Trampas, I'd be looking for an intake air leak. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Trampas Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:38 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale There are good Mercedes and bad ones. I have a 420SEL that is an absolute lemon. I have replaced every moving part on the car, and most of the non moving ones too. My Diesel however is a worn out work horse that will not die. My wife is now saying she wants a Honda mini-van as that the Mercedes are not reliable cars, note the 420SEL has been towed at least 10 times in last 5 years. I am very picky about the cars, in that I do all the repairs and will spare no expense to make it perfect, just ask Rusty. That being said, the quality of the 420SEL has made me see that a Honda might be the best thing. Currently the 560SEL which we have had for year and half is starting to shape up as a problem car, I have done everything under the sun to get the idle smooth and it still has miss and low idle. I am starting to think that the fuel distributor is leaking causing the problems. As far as mileage 420SEL - 19-20MPG 560SEL - 15-17MPG 300SD - 22MPG (but low on compression on one cylinder) Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OK Don Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale That's quite a history. Do you buy new cars, or pre-owned ones? All of mine have been well used, and I've expected to have to catch up the maintenance. I've only owned one gas MB - the SLC, and it has been an education, though the engine technology has little to do with the problems I've had with it. On 1/9/07, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Don, > > I'm a high mileage driver (50K+ / year) and I've always had more > maintenance issues with Mercedes diesels. I've replaced more starters > (6), alternators (8) & motor mounts (5 sets) in the diesels. I've also > had to replace glow plugs more often that I've had to replace spark > plugs in the gassers, but I always run platinum plugs in the gassers. > And don't forget the glow plug relays (4). Also, glow plugs are > considerably more expensive than spark plugs. Then there have been the > radiators (5), broken injector lines (3), 2 replacement vacuum pumps & 4 > vacuum pump rebuilds. 2 vacuum shutoff valves, 2 of the diaphrams used > to regulate the IP (1972 & 1974 diesels). > > I've owned 7 gassers & 8 diesels, all driven in the 135K - 300K mileage > range and all pushed around 50K / year. As far as major gasser parts are > concerned? I've replaced 2 alternators, 1 starter, 2 radiators and 2 > belt tensioners. > > I've also lost 2 engines (1 gasser & 1 diesel) and 2 transmissions (also > 1 gasser & 1 diesel). > > Belt usage has been about equal. > > I've yet to replace a original Mercedes radiator hose. > > Oil's only part of the picture - I've always changed my diesel oil at 5K > miles but I change my gasser oil at 10K miles. > > > Thanks, > Tom > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailma
[MBZ] voice recognition
Is Dragon NaturallySpeaking version 9 so much better than version 4 that I should get it? How does Preferred differ from Standard? Wilton
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
Trampas, I'd be looking for an intake air leak. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Trampas Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:38 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale There are good Mercedes and bad ones. I have a 420SEL that is an absolute lemon. I have replaced every moving part on the car, and most of the non moving ones too. My Diesel however is a worn out work horse that will not die. My wife is now saying she wants a Honda mini-van as that the Mercedes are not reliable cars, note the 420SEL has been towed at least 10 times in last 5 years. I am very picky about the cars, in that I do all the repairs and will spare no expense to make it perfect, just ask Rusty. That being said, the quality of the 420SEL has made me see that a Honda might be the best thing. Currently the 560SEL which we have had for year and half is starting to shape up as a problem car, I have done everything under the sun to get the idle smooth and it still has miss and low idle. I am starting to think that the fuel distributor is leaking causing the problems. As far as mileage 420SEL - 19-20MPG 560SEL - 15-17MPG 300SD - 22MPG (but low on compression on one cylinder) Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OK Don Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale That's quite a history. Do you buy new cars, or pre-owned ones? All of mine have been well used, and I've expected to have to catch up the maintenance. I've only owned one gas MB - the SLC, and it has been an education, though the engine technology has little to do with the problems I've had with it. On 1/9/07, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Don, > > I'm a high mileage driver (50K+ / year) and I've always had more > maintenance issues with Mercedes diesels. I've replaced more starters > (6), alternators (8) & motor mounts (5 sets) in the diesels. I've also > had to replace glow plugs more often that I've had to replace spark > plugs in the gassers, but I always run platinum plugs in the gassers. > And don't forget the glow plug relays (4). Also, glow plugs are > considerably more expensive than spark plugs. Then there have been the > radiators (5), broken injector lines (3), 2 replacement vacuum pumps & 4 > vacuum pump rebuilds. 2 vacuum shutoff valves, 2 of the diaphrams used > to regulate the IP (1972 & 1974 diesels). > > I've owned 7 gassers & 8 diesels, all driven in the 135K - 300K mileage > range and all pushed around 50K / year. As far as major gasser parts are > concerned? I've replaced 2 alternators, 1 starter, 2 radiators and 2 > belt tensioners. > > I've also lost 2 engines (1 gasser & 1 diesel) and 2 transmissions (also > 1 gasser & 1 diesel). > > Belt usage has been about equal. > > I've yet to replace a original Mercedes radiator hose. > > Oil's only part of the picture - I've always changed my diesel oil at 5K > miles but I change my gasser oil at 10K miles. > > > Thanks, > Tom > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline
John, I know your car and 28 MPG sounds about right for 60 MPH. Also, 23 - 24 MPG sounds about right for what I'd consider "normal highway speeds". I usually run about 80 MPH myself. I'd go faster but the stops & discussions with the "local establishment" get too expensive. ;) Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Robbins Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:36 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline kevin kraly wrote: > 30mpg hauling a** down the highway at 75MPH. > Another reason for the low mileage is that some people consider 75mph slow... ;) I've gotten 28mpg *once* when I went 55/60mph the entire tank. I normally get 19-21 in town and 23-24 on the highway. I normally do about 15 over... I also think my W116 has a different differential so I'm at higher RPMs than other SDs. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline
kevin kraly wrote: 30mpg hauling a** down the highway at 75MPH. Another reason for the low mileage is that some people consider 75mph slow... ;) I've gotten 28mpg *once* when I went 55/60mph the entire tank. I normally get 19-21 in town and 23-24 on the highway. I normally do about 15 over... I also think my W116 has a different differential so I'm at higher RPMs than other SDs. John
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
There are good Mercedes and bad ones. I have a 420SEL that is an absolute lemon. I have replaced every moving part on the car, and most of the non moving ones too. My Diesel however is a worn out work horse that will not die. My wife is now saying she wants a Honda mini-van as that the Mercedes are not reliable cars, note the 420SEL has been towed at least 10 times in last 5 years. I am very picky about the cars, in that I do all the repairs and will spare no expense to make it perfect, just ask Rusty. That being said, the quality of the 420SEL has made me see that a Honda might be the best thing. Currently the 560SEL which we have had for year and half is starting to shape up as a problem car, I have done everything under the sun to get the idle smooth and it still has miss and low idle. I am starting to think that the fuel distributor is leaking causing the problems. As far as mileage 420SEL - 19-20MPG 560SEL - 15-17MPG 300SD - 22MPG (but low on compression on one cylinder) Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OK Don Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale That's quite a history. Do you buy new cars, or pre-owned ones? All of mine have been well used, and I've expected to have to catch up the maintenance. I've only owned one gas MB - the SLC, and it has been an education, though the engine technology has little to do with the problems I've had with it. On 1/9/07, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Don, > > I'm a high mileage driver (50K+ / year) and I've always had more > maintenance issues with Mercedes diesels. I've replaced more starters > (6), alternators (8) & motor mounts (5 sets) in the diesels. I've also > had to replace glow plugs more often that I've had to replace spark > plugs in the gassers, but I always run platinum plugs in the gassers. > And don't forget the glow plug relays (4). Also, glow plugs are > considerably more expensive than spark plugs. Then there have been the > radiators (5), broken injector lines (3), 2 replacement vacuum pumps & 4 > vacuum pump rebuilds. 2 vacuum shutoff valves, 2 of the diaphrams used > to regulate the IP (1972 & 1974 diesels). > > I've owned 7 gassers & 8 diesels, all driven in the 135K - 300K mileage > range and all pushed around 50K / year. As far as major gasser parts are > concerned? I've replaced 2 alternators, 1 starter, 2 radiators and 2 > belt tensioners. > > I've also lost 2 engines (1 gasser & 1 diesel) and 2 transmissions (also > 1 gasser & 1 diesel). > > Belt usage has been about equal. > > I've yet to replace a original Mercedes radiator hose. > > Oil's only part of the picture - I've always changed my diesel oil at 5K > miles but I change my gasser oil at 10K miles. > > > Thanks, > Tom > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Function of electronic controls on '85 OM617, Cali emissions car
In a message dated 1/8/2007 10:43:35 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Uh, here it starts to get interesting. The motor in question is from an '85 Cali car and still has its original injection pump but the 'black boxes' are GONE. Not to steal Peter's thread, but you need to adjust your ALDA. Take seal off cap and gently turn screw CCW about 1 turn. Cold performance and off idle will improve significantly!!! This added fuel will get you moving BEFORE the boost comes in, thus nullifying the surge you are experiencing when it finally does come on boost! You may have one tight exhaust valve that needs adjusting. "Cold oil puffing goes away when warm" Regards, Jim Friesen Phoenix AZ 79 300SD, 264 K miles 98 ML 320, 146 K miles
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
I agree 100% on the value of Dodge diesels. The used one are high dollar items around here. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Cathey Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 12:16 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale > Now if you factor in total cost to operate, starting with the purchase > of a > new vehicle, especially heavier vehicles like 3/4T trucks, then the > initial > premium of about $6k for the Diesel option can add a lot, unless you > drive a > lot of miles, like perhaps 30k-50k miles per year. To properly make that assessment you must also factor in projected resale value. The diesel trucks hold their value considerably better, so that you get a substantial part of the diesel premium back. At least, for Dodges. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
Don, All pre-owned - I won't touch one until it has crossed 130K or so. Also, I'll look at more than 30 before buying one & I usually pay what most list members would consider too much. But I'll but a Mercedes in good shape & ready to put on the road. In the long run, it's cheaper to buy an over priced Mercedes in good shape than a cheap "fixer-upper". The cheap "fixer-upper" will cost you more in the long run every time. Understand, I'm not bashing diesels - I love the cars. But my own experience is that diesels are harder on charging systems, starting systems, cooling systems & engine suspension parts than gassers. Then you have the expensive parts that only the diesels have - the glow plugs, timer & vacuum pump. I understand that the gassers have expensive engine controllers but I've never lost one. Same goes for the ignition module. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OK Don Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:06 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale That's quite a history. Do you buy new cars, or pre-owned ones? All of mine have been well used, and I've expected to have to catch up the maintenance. I've only owned one gas MB - the SLC, and it has been an education, though the engine technology has little to do with the problems I've had with it. On 1/9/07, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Don, > > I'm a high mileage driver (50K+ / year) and I've always had more > maintenance issues with Mercedes diesels. I've replaced more starters > (6), alternators (8) & motor mounts (5 sets) in the diesels. I've also > had to replace glow plugs more often that I've had to replace spark > plugs in the gassers, but I always run platinum plugs in the gassers. > And don't forget the glow plug relays (4). Also, glow plugs are > considerably more expensive than spark plugs. Then there have been the > radiators (5), broken injector lines (3), 2 replacement vacuum pumps & 4 > vacuum pump rebuilds. 2 vacuum shutoff valves, 2 of the diaphrams used > to regulate the IP (1972 & 1974 diesels). > > I've owned 7 gassers & 8 diesels, all driven in the 135K - 300K mileage > range and all pushed around 50K / year. As far as major gasser parts are > concerned? I've replaced 2 alternators, 1 starter, 2 radiators and 2 > belt tensioners. > > I've also lost 2 engines (1 gasser & 1 diesel) and 2 transmissions (also > 1 gasser & 1 diesel). > > Belt usage has been about equal. > > I've yet to replace a original Mercedes radiator hose. > > Oil's only part of the picture - I've always changed my diesel oil at 5K > miles but I change my gasser oil at 10K miles. > > > Thanks, > Tom > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline
Kevin, My 300SDL mileage has been a very consistent 25 - 26 MPG and it's actually higher than what's reported by the Federal Government for that model & year. They rate the car at 24 MPG / highway. I don't know your driving habits but two Mercedes owners I know are getting (or claiming) mileage much greater than the Federal standards. One is my oldest Son who is an ultra conservative driver. He drives so conservatively that you'd swear that you are accelerating in a 123 body 240D with the AC on. The other is a friend who claims he's getting 28 MPG in his 300SD. I've owned too many, I've rode with him and I know better. I'd bet just about anything that he's getting around 24 MPG. You can bump your mileage up a little by swapping out the differential but you loose some performance. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin kraly Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 2:50 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline As for the SDL getting that low mileage, I would suggest looking into that as my SD gets 29 on the highway, my SD with the less efficient 617.951 engine also gets around 29 MPG highway. Maybe it has something to do with the head gasket problem? A friend of mine on another list has a 1986 300SDL that will reliably get 30mpg hauling a** down the highway at 75MPH. Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300SD 265K miles, Ursula ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
That's quite a history. Do you buy new cars, or pre-owned ones? All of mine have been well used, and I've expected to have to catch up the maintenance. I've only owned one gas MB - the SLC, and it has been an education, though the engine technology has little to do with the problems I've had with it. On 1/9/07, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Don, I'm a high mileage driver (50K+ / year) and I've always had more maintenance issues with Mercedes diesels. I've replaced more starters (6), alternators (8) & motor mounts (5 sets) in the diesels. I've also had to replace glow plugs more often that I've had to replace spark plugs in the gassers, but I always run platinum plugs in the gassers. And don't forget the glow plug relays (4). Also, glow plugs are considerably more expensive than spark plugs. Then there have been the radiators (5), broken injector lines (3), 2 replacement vacuum pumps & 4 vacuum pump rebuilds. 2 vacuum shutoff valves, 2 of the diaphrams used to regulate the IP (1972 & 1974 diesels). I've owned 7 gassers & 8 diesels, all driven in the 135K - 300K mileage range and all pushed around 50K / year. As far as major gasser parts are concerned? I've replaced 2 alternators, 1 starter, 2 radiators and 2 belt tensioners. I've also lost 2 engines (1 gasser & 1 diesel) and 2 transmissions (also 1 gasser & 1 diesel). Belt usage has been about equal. I've yet to replace a original Mercedes radiator hose. Oil's only part of the picture - I've always changed my diesel oil at 5K miles but I change my gasser oil at 10K miles. Thanks, Tom -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
The w107 line changed from steel to aluminum hoods and trunk lids in the middle of '81 with the introduction of the 380SL and SLC in the US - both the lighter parts and the smaller engine were to improve fuel economy. > I remember someone posting something a while back about how some Mercedes' > have aluminum hoods. I noticed that my 300SD has both an aluminum hood and > trunk lid since my trusty magnet doesn't stick to them. Is this also true > for other Mercedes models? > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] Function of electronic controls on '85 OM617, Cali emissions car
The boost bypass valve also reduces NOx emissions. When decelerating it dumps the boost pressure reducing thus reducing pressure in cylinders and thus less NOx. Note my 1985 federal 300SD has all this, but they are disconnect. The bypass valve got disconnected as it would cause a loud whistle when decelerating. Make sure the EGR and boost bypass are disconnected, then if you still have a problem it has nothing to do with these two items or the electronics. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 12:46 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Function of electronic controls on '85 OM617,Cali emissions car Bad turbo -- the oil is from leakage out of the turbo, goes down the intake and make smoke, also burns in the exhaust. My Volvo did this, absolutely positively SLUGGISH until the turbo finally spun up. Check the turbo -- the oil down the intake isn't good for the engine. The setup should be fine if the boost line is correct. Watch for leaks, there, also it may be tied into the tranny shift control system, so look for a bad switchover valve there -- anthing that vents that boost line will prevent the added fuel that goes with the added air -- high intake pressure doesn't do much without the added fuel. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
The w116 and w126 turbodiesels had aluminum hoods and trunklids to reduce weight a bit. mac on 1/9/07 3:52 AM, kevin kraly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I remember someone posting something a while back about how some Mercedes' > have aluminum hoods. I noticed that my 300SD has both an aluminum hood and > trunk lid since my trusty magnet doesn't stick to them. Is this also true > for other Mercedes models? > > Kevin in Hillsboro, OR > 1983 300SD 265K miles, Ursula > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No clue owner of 93 S300D
What version of Dragon do you have? What kind of speaker do you use or does it matter?\ I have a copy of Dragon that was given to me when I bought Win98 so you know how old my version is - but I never installed it or tried it out. Good to know it;s working well for you -- I may have to give it a try! Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: "wilton strickland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 9:26 PM Subject: [MBZ] No clue owner of 93 S300D The doctor's wife saw the puddle of fuel under the car. He knew nothing about the injector bypass lines -- 'didn't even look under the hood. He may be an outstanding doctor, but he knows nothing about mechanics. 'He had no idea what I was talking about when I tried to tell him where the bypass lines are in plain view on top of the engine. Regarding the use of Dragon NaturallySpeaking, because of my tremor, I now have extreme difficulty using the keyboard. Dragon is beginning to work reasonably well. We're still training each other. It's still slow for me, but it's much easier for me now than trying to use the keyboard. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/619 - Release Date: 1/7/2007
[MBZ] aluminum hood and trunk lid?
I remember someone posting something a while back about how some Mercedes' have aluminum hoods. I noticed that my 300SD has both an aluminum hood and trunk lid since my trusty magnet doesn't stick to them. Is this also true for other Mercedes models? Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300SD 265K miles, Ursula
Re: [MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline
As for the SDL getting that low mileage, I would suggest looking into that as my SD gets 29 on the highway, my SD with the less efficient 617.951 engine also gets around 29 MPG highway. Maybe it has something to do with the head gasket problem? A friend of mine on another list has a 1986 300SDL that will reliably get 30mpg hauling a** down the highway at 75MPH. Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 1983 300SD 265K miles, Ursula
Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL
Harry - OK I don't buy that the MAS will be affected for the reason you gave, but I'm not sure why the cats would be affected by a lower octane either. Neither grade has any lead, and the only other thing that I've heard that would poison the cats is too much hydrocarbon. Why would the computer retarding the timing a bit, per the knock sensors, cause that? Or is there something I'm missing. Please edumicate me. Barry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 2:17 AM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL even though continued use of regular may not damage your engine, it will damage the cats Harry 69 280 SEL 135,000 Miles 72 350SL 118,000 Miles 2004 VW Passat 4 Motion 1999 Mazda Miata -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] compression ratio 300SL James Zavesky wrote: > I'll bring in E320's from time to time and irregardless if it's a small 6, 8 > or 12 cylinder they all ping when run on back to back tanks of regular. We > alternate tanks between Shell premium and super with no ill effects on all > the cars. knocking is non existant. Won't run regualr as I don't want to > spend $1600 for a pair of MAS air flow sensors. While I don't doubt that regular fuel can cause damage to that engine, I doubt the airflow sensors are going to be the victims. They don't see any gas, just air. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
Don, I'm a high mileage driver (50K+ / year) and I've always had more maintenance issues with Mercedes diesels. I've replaced more starters (6), alternators (8) & motor mounts (5 sets) in the diesels. I've also had to replace glow plugs more often that I've had to replace spark plugs in the gassers, but I always run platinum plugs in the gassers. And don't forget the glow plug relays (4). Also, glow plugs are considerably more expensive than spark plugs. Then there have been the radiators (5), broken injector lines (3), 2 replacement vacuum pumps & 4 vacuum pump rebuilds. 2 vacuum shutoff valves, 2 of the diaphrams used to regulate the IP (1972 & 1974 diesels). I've owned 7 gassers & 8 diesels, all driven in the 135K - 300K mileage range and all pushed around 50K / year. As far as major gasser parts are concerned? I've replaced 2 alternators, 1 starter, 2 radiators and 2 belt tensioners. I've also lost 2 engines (1 gasser & 1 diesel) and 2 transmissions (also 1 gasser & 1 diesel). Belt usage has been about equal. I've yet to replace a original Mercedes radiator hose. Oil's only part of the picture - I've always changed my diesel oil at 5K miles but I change my gasser oil at 10K miles. Thanks, Tom Original Message From: OK Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 01/08/07 10:30 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Tom - I'm curious about your statement that oil changes cost more for a 300E than a 300D. Is it due to the quantity of oil per change or the oil change frequency? I've been getting my oil analyzed in my Diesels lately, but haven't been doing them for the vergassers. Since I'm extending the change interval considerably on the basis of the analysis results and changing per the factory recommended schedule in the vergassers, the Diesels are costing less per mile for oil changes. I'm not factoring in fuel costs, only oil changes. > the maintenance cost is also higher with a diesel. Both oil changes & oil > filters cost more. I also understand the longevity of a diesel but both of > my 300E's went well over 250,000 miles. > It's time to figure the fuel differences - something I've been meaning to do for a while now: Today, RUG is $1.94 and Diesel is $2.35 in OKC. The 450SLC gets 14mpg on my 50 mile/day commute. That's 1000 miles per month, and $138.57. The 300D 2.5 gets 24 to 25 mpg on the same commute. That's $97.92 for the month. The cast iron 117 engines are known for longevity as well - the only reason I could find for having to re-build mine was very dried rubber seals, and loose intake manifold bolts on one side. My particular cars and yours are different - this comparison does not apply to anyone else - just thinking while typing - not challenging any one's conclusions or choices. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
Now if you factor in total cost to operate, starting with the purchase of a new vehicle, especially heavier vehicles like 3/4T trucks, then the initial premium of about $6k for the Diesel option can add a lot, unless you drive a lot of miles, like perhaps 30k-50k miles per year. To properly make that assessment you must also factor in projected resale value. The diesel trucks hold their value considerably better, so that you get a substantial part of the diesel premium back. At least, for Dodges. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....
That _is_ full of woody goodness! Maybe that's mourning wood, since I ain't-a gonna get to go. -- Jim
[MBZ] Attachments...
I thought we had this list set so that attachments, such as pictures or PDF's, etc., would be squirreled off to the side and replaced with a link. My mail reader was just choked for five minutes downloading Clay's auction catalog. It may be interesting, but I would rather have had the choice to go fetch it sometime when the wireless link felt like working, rather than being force-fed it while on dialup! 5 mins is an eternity when you're waiting to go to bed. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Cracked OM 617.91 head
There was evidence of steam cleaning/ pitting in cambers though. Thanks PEter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 January 2007 03:59 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cracked OM 617.91 head In a message dated 1/8/2007 12:55:09 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Eventually I dismantled my 300GD engine ( OM617.91 ) and discovered a crack on cyl #1 between the two valves. Engine has never overheated in last 6 years I have had it and water usage is negligable ( 0.5 l / 2 km ). Is this problem commonplace ? Peter, I have replaced cast iron heads on the four cylinder 616, and my current 617 car. In both cases, you KNOW they are leaking and the engine overheats forthwith. When I began overhauling my 79, I found that the used head ( on there 6 years)had a crack between the valves but had never shown a sign of leaking. I think some cracks are common and can be ignored. Sign of leakage, such as water consumption and steam cleaned combustion chambers should NOT be ignored. I also have an aluminum 603 head (#18) that was cracked between the valves on number 6 cylinder, and it did not show signs of leaking either. Of course, if someone was paying a shop to rebuild an engine, the incidental cost of $550 for a new bare head would be a good insurance risk. Regards, Jim Friesen Phoenix AZ 79 300SD, 264 K miles 98 ML 320, 146 K miles ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Function of electronic controls on '85 OM617, Cali emissions car
Bad turbo -- the oil is from leakage out of the turbo, goes down the intake and make smoke, also burns in the exhaust. My Volvo did this, absolutely positively SLUGGISH until the turbo finally spun up. Check the turbo -- the oil down the intake isn't good for the engine. The setup should be fine if the boost line is correct. Watch for leaks, there, also it may be tied into the tranny shift control system, so look for a bad switchover valve there -- anthing that vents that boost line will prevent the added fuel that goes with the added air -- high intake pressure doesn't do much without the added fuel. Peter
Re: [MBZ] OT GM crate engines
Thanks! this is just the information I needed to make the decision. will check the other items mentioned before I order. regards mak - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT GM crate engines In a message dated 1/7/2007 10:31:33 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Planning to import so called ' crated' engines for a 1958 and a 1965 Chevy Impala convertible . currently these have straight six engines as were fitted to most GM export models of that vintage. what common V-8 engine should be ordered for these cars ? I am sure some on the list will have trove of knowledge in this area and will appreciate advise and insight to this engine purchase Mak, The best bargain in crate engines is the 350 cubic inch, 300 horsepower, with four bolt mains, advertised at many chevy dealers for $1495. This is an all new, completely assembled engine from intake to pan and comes with a 50,000 mile, 3 year warranty. This will use your carburetor and accessories. The heads will be drilled to mount most any stock accessory. If you want fuel injection, the same engine, called the Ramjet, complete with FI, wiring and computer, is $4495 and puts out 330 horsepower. For long life, fuel efficiency, and reasonable horsepower, that is a hell of a deal! Either way, be sure to use a reduction gear starter to avoid the old heat soak problems of standard V8 starters. I have seen the Denso 2 hp reduction gear starter for as low as $70 Just Google crate engines or call up the automotive classifieds of any large newspaper on the coast nearest you. The Arizona Republic has an ad in auto parts nearly every weekend. Regards, Jim Friesen Phoenix AZ 79 300SD, 264 K miles 98 ML 320, 146 K miles ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/619 - Release Date: 1/7/2007
Re: [MBZ] Function of electronic controls on '85 OM617, Cali emissions car
on 1/9/07 12:11 AM, Peter Frederick at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Something for you to work on... > > If you pull the hose off the air recirc valve (on the front of the > turbo housing on a Garret, don't know where it is on the KKK), you > should get "normal" turbo operation (that is, no air recirc). Uh, here it starts to get interesting. The motor in question is from an '85 Cali car and still has its original injection pump but the 'black boxes' are GONE. Onto this was bolted the manifold and turbo off an '82 Cali car (hence no trap setup). This setup was cobbled together with the blessing of Mercedes Benz Canada tech support, who said it would work fine. It manifestly does not, at present, unless by 'work' they meant it would start and run, which it does. The kicker here is that I drove the original donor car two years ago (that is, the '85, with its original Cali-spec equipment all still in place) and it ran fine at that time. Let me now offer you the full tour: 1. Starts very, very strong on all 5 pots but after 15 secs or so begins to miss on one and blows oil out the exhaust and does so more or less until the temp gauge starts to move. If you hold your foot into the throttle, however, it continues to run on 5 all the time and warms up fine. 2. Zero boost until fully warm. Performs under my old, tired 240d automatic, even when partly warm. 3. Boost lag is extreme and comes on ridiculously fast when it does come. 4. Boost is also inconsistent... often varies quite a lot, even within say 20 seconds (in 'accordioning' traffic on the freeway, for example). I did read about the pressure line from the manifold to the overboost switch, but it's new... I guess I could check the banjo bolt for crud. Thanks -- "Mac" Steve MacSween Aylmer, Quebec (Canada) Mercedes: '82 300sd / '82 240d (x2) / '60 220s
Re: [MBZ] Function of electronic controls on '85 OM617, Cali emissions car
Part of that stuff causes a valve to open to vent boost back into the turbo intake. This does a couple things, one is to keep from frying the trap oxidizer (which should be replaced with a trap catalyst by now -- if not, it's a warrenty recall thing) AND to help prevent turbo lag by allowing the turbo to spin at low load -- when boost is wanted, the valve closes and you have full boost. However, a turbo that won't provide boost cold and then goes from nothing to full power instantly can also be a bad turbo bearing -- easy to check, if it's bad the turbo won't spin easily under finger pressure (engine OFF, please, else you will be forever known as "stubby"). Any roughness or binding in rotation, it's turbo time. A clogged boost signal line (from rear of intake on a 617) via the overboost protection solenoid to the ALDA on the injection pump can cause trouble, too -- the switchover valve can leak, or get stuck, or blow, the line can be clogged, or the rubber connectors bad, so that the signal isn't consistant with actual intake pressure. Something for you to work on... If you pull the hose off the air recirc valve (on the front of the turbo housing on a Garret, don't know where it is on the KKK), you should get "normal" turbo operation (that is, no air recirc). Peter
Re: [MBZ] Function of electronic controls on '85 OM617, Cali emissions car
on 1/8/07 9:52 AM, Trampas at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Nope the electronics were to control the EGR and boost bypass. > > Trampas He-LO on the second point. Exactly what would boost bypass be doing and when? This car has ZERO boost until pretty much fully warmed up, and has awful turbo lag under all conditions. When boost does finally arrive, it comes on too fast and too strong -- quite a handful in stop and go traffic conditions. Thanks Mac
Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....
On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 23:33:19 -0500 Mitch Haley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Craig McCluskey wrote: > > > > Not sure what you mean by this phrase ... > > If this were the "banned" list I'd spell it out for you. Oh.
[MBZ] early congrats to florida gators
didn't see this one coming. gators crush buckeyes i go to sleep now
Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....
Craig McCluskey wrote: > > Not sure what you mean by this phrase ... If this were the "banned" list I'd spell it out for you.
Re: [MBZ] Octane and detonation....
On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:38:16 -0800 Redghost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > There are a number of Lister motors available at this upcoming auction. > That and a few 200-300amp gen sets. You can even bid live online. > For those trapped at a desk. > > I am going to preview the site Tuesday. A two day affair to get all > the toys sold. Bound to be truck loads of tools and supplies going for > pennies Thursday. Whole rooms and shelf units loaded. This sounds interesting: 531 1 each KATO 30KW, 208-240/416- 480V, 3PH-120/240V, 1PH DETROIT DIESEL DRIVE > No affiliation, just sporting big wood for this auction. Not sure what you mean by this phrase ... Craig
Re: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
Don - I agree with your analysis. In my case, I was driving a 380SL on a similar commute, and when I switched over to using the wife's 300D 2.5, I found it to be much less expensive. Both cars use about 8 qts for an oil change. Filter costs were similar, too. The 380SL had an advantage of being rated to use 87 octane, while newer gassers call for 91. Here the price for gasoline runs from $2.10 (reg) to $2.45 (premium), while #2 fuel is around $2.40. Clearly no operating price advantage for gasoline in operating costs. Now if you factor in total cost to operate, starting with the purchase of a new vehicle, especially heavier vehicles like 3/4T trucks, then the initial premium of about $6k for the Diesel option can add a lot, unless you drive a lot of miles, like perhaps 30k-50k miles per year. But most of us are driving cars that someone else took the initial depreciation hit on, so the vehicle costs shouldn't be much of a factor. Of course, everyone has their own driving habits, and different cars and commutes along with locally different pricing, so the old YMMV applies! Werner - Original Message - From: "OK Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:29 PM Subject: [MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale Tom - I'm curious about your statement that oil changes cost more for a 300E than a 300D. Is it due to the quantity of oil per change or the oil change frequency? I've been getting my oil analyzed in my Diesels lately, but haven't been doing them for the vergassers. Since I'm extending the change interval considerably on the basis of the analysis results and changing per the factory recommended schedule in the vergassers, the Diesels are costing less per mile for oil changes. I'm not factoring in fuel costs, only oil changes. the maintenance cost is also higher with a diesel. Both oil changes & oil filters cost more. I also understand the longevity of a diesel but both of my 300E's went well over 250,000 miles. It's time to figure the fuel differences - something I've been meaning to do for a while now: Today, RUG is $1.94 and Diesel is $2.35 in OKC. The 450SLC gets 14mpg on my 50 mile/day commute. That's 1000 miles per month, and $138.57. The 300D 2.5 gets 24 to 25 mpg on the same commute. That's $97.92 for the month. The cast iron 117 engines are known for longevity as well - the only reason I could find for having to re-build mine was very dried rubber seals, and loose intake manifold bolts on one side. My particular cars and yours are different - this comparison does not apply to anyone else - just thinking while typing - not challenging any one's conclusions or choices. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] Porsche Speedster
And an MGB is a relatively simple car! I just spent three years on the engine in the 450SLC - and that was just to mechanical sound-ness and nice to look at, not anywhere near to "like new". The ACC and interior is starting to appear a bit daunting! While I did completely disassemble my '67 MGB that was mostly to allow me to replace and clean old parts - not to the kind of restoration ya'll did to the Speedster I found it to be a huge project. I'm still putting it back together after 16 years. Granted, a big part of that time was dead time while contemplated how I would deal with all the rust. I eventually bought a rust free B on ebay and transferred all my parts to it. But I still have the *whole* frigging interior to finish. ;-( Yep, it's a huge effort. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
[MBZ] Vergasser vs. Diesel, was 87 TD for sale
Tom - I'm curious about your statement that oil changes cost more for a 300E than a 300D. Is it due to the quantity of oil per change or the oil change frequency? I've been getting my oil analyzed in my Diesels lately, but haven't been doing them for the vergassers. Since I'm extending the change interval considerably on the basis of the analysis results and changing per the factory recommended schedule in the vergassers, the Diesels are costing less per mile for oil changes. I'm not factoring in fuel costs, only oil changes. the maintenance cost is also higher with a diesel. Both oil changes & oil filters cost more. I also understand the longevity of a diesel but both of my 300E's went well over 250,000 miles. It's time to figure the fuel differences - something I've been meaning to do for a while now: Today, RUG is $1.94 and Diesel is $2.35 in OKC. The 450SLC gets 14mpg on my 50 mile/day commute. That's 1000 miles per month, and $138.57. The 300D 2.5 gets 24 to 25 mpg on the same commute. That's $97.92 for the month. The cast iron 117 engines are known for longevity as well - the only reason I could find for having to re-build mine was very dried rubber seals, and loose intake manifold bolts on one side. My particular cars and yours are different - this comparison does not apply to anyone else - just thinking while typing - not challenging any one's conclusions or choices. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
[MBZ] FW: Today's Diesel Prices
Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 3:12 PM To: Weekly Highway Diesel Prices Subject: Today's Diesel Prices ** ** ** * **** * * *** U.S. Department of Energy** ** ** * Energy Information Administration * **** ******* To unsubscribe/change address, ** ** ** ** ** * see the message footnotes * * EIA, the Nation's clearinghouse for energy statistics. *** ** (NOTE: To best view this document, your email software should be set to view the item in an 80 character format, using a "non-proportional" font, e.g. courier) ** Due to the Federal government holiday on Monday of next week, the retail diesel prices will be released on Tuesday by 5:00 P.M. (Eastern standard time). The data will still represent Monday's prices. On-highway diesel prices, by week and PADD (Self Service Cash Price in Dollars per Gallon, Including Taxes) Diesel Prices Web URL: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/wohdp/diesel.asp US NATL EASTNEWCENTLOWER GULF ROCKY WEST DATEAVG COAST ENGLAND ATL ATL MIDWEST COAST MTN COAST CA PADD PADDPADDPADDPADDPADDPADD PADD I IA IB IC II III IV V -- - - --- - - --- - - - - 070108 2.537 2.520 2.672 2.633 2.458 2.483 2.459 2.682 2.824 2.856 070101 2.580 2.565 2.710 2.681 2.503 2.534 2.500 2.697 2.853 2.883 061225 2.596 2.587 2.737 2.710 2.520 2.550 2.514 2.713 2.856 2.885 061218 2.606 2.599 2.730 2.722 2.535 2.555 2.519 2.716 2.887 2.917 061211 2.621 2.610 2.749 2.730 2.546 2.563 2.540 2.724 2.931 2.963 061204 2.618 2.610 2.716 2.717 2.555 2.578 2.537 2.707 2.860 2.860 061127 2.567 2.537 2.634 2.652 2.479 2.554 2.490 2.680 2.760 2.710 061120 2.553 2.521 2.625 2.638 2.461 2.554 2.469 2.647 2.724 2.690 061113 2.552 2.530 2.616 2.643 2.473 2.562 2.470 2.623 2.673 2.677 061106 2.506 2.508 2.613 2.628 2.448 2.493 2.449 2.577 2.606 2.637 061030 2.517 2.530 2.629 2.646 2.472 2.501 2.462 2.577 2.602 2.645 061023 2.524 2.537 2.636 2.651 2.480 2.502 2.477 2.563 2.628 2.669 061016 2.503 2.521 2.623 2.636 2.462 2.459 2.461 2.539 2.655 2.703 061009 2.506 2.533 2.649 2.654 2.471 2.448 2.446 2.584 2.697 2.751 061002 2.546 2.567 2.678 2.694 2.503 2.467 2.490 2.679 2.789 2.835 060925 2.595 2.600 2.730 2.746 2.526 2.506 2.526 2.827 2.892 2.910 060918 2.713 2.699 2.832 2.844 2.625 2.624 2.636 3.052 3.014 3.002 060911 2.857 2.826 2.955 2.958 2.757 2.787 2.770 3.236 3.137 3.125 060904 2.967 2.911 3.009 3.032 2.850 2.937 2.872 3.318 3.199 3.175 060828 3.027 2.955 3.035 3.074 2.897 3.026 2.923 3.346 3.229 3.200 060821 3.033 2.953 3.049 3.078 2.890 3.041 2.923 3.349 3.237 3.221 060814 3.065 3.017 3.077 3.130 2.964 3.065 2.974 3.311 3.218 3.220 060807 3.055 3.026 3.061 3.104 2.989 3.070 2.988 3.208 3.113 3.130 060731 2.980 2.958 2.991 3.030 2.924 2.988 2.925 3.052 3.066 3.093 060724 2.946 2.925 2.972 3.002 2.888 2.951 2.895 2.987 3.047 3.097 060717 2.926 2.906 2.970 2.992 2.864 2.927 2.868 2.960 3.051 3.097 060710 2.918 2.887 2.947 2.963 2.849 2.919 2.866 2.966 3.060 3.113 060703 2.898 2.874 2.948 2.951 2.834 2.887 2.845 2.958 3.056 3.119 060626 2.867 2.864 2.952 2.956 2.816 2.819 2.822 2.960 3.068 3.140 060619 2.915 2.907 2.960 2.990 2.867 2.873 2.859 3.018 3.117 3.185 060612 2.918 2.909 2.979 2.997 2.866 2.874 2.848 3.041 3.149 3.217 060605 2.890 2.881 2.969 2.992 2.825 2.837 2.805 3.043 3.159 3.227 060529 2.882 2.873 2.966 2.987 2.815 2.824 2.798 3.044 3.161 3.227 060522 2.888 2.877 2.982 2.987 2.820 2.836 2.801 3.024 3.175 3.234 060515 2.920 2.907 3.003 3.014 2.853 2.870 2.829 3.074 3.192 3.242 060508 2.897 2.884 2.972 2.983 2.834 2.841 2.814 3.054 3.180 3.244 060501 2.896 2.892 2.979 2.987 2.843 2.853 2.832 3.012 3.098 3.163 060424 2.876 2.888 2.961 2.978 2.843 2.847 2.817 2.903 3.026 3.103 060417 2.765 2.788 2.865 2.876 2.743 2.735 2.725 2.756 2.881 2.933 060410 2.654 2.676 2.769 2.767 2.629 2.614 2.6
[MBZ] OT: How to tell if a gray market car is "legal"
Subject car is not an MB, but I know that gray market MBs are not uncommon and probably not unfamiliar to some folks here. Car was originally imported in Canada. It's my understanding that Canada pretty much has the same standards as the US DOT, excepting the metric speedo and some other minor details. If the car has already been titled in the US, does that mean that it's likely to be title-able in another state? What about insurance? Would my insurance co. be able to tell me, based on the VIN, whether they could cover it? Could the Bureau of Motor Vehicles tell me based on the VIN if I could get a title and registration? Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
[MBZ] voice recognition
Bill, a fellow listor sent me this version of Dragon (#4.01) a year and a half or so ago. I did see version 9 packaged separately at Staples yesterday. 'Don't know how else it may be packaged. Wilton
[MBZ] No clue owner of 93 S300D
The doctor's wife saw the puddle of fuel under the car. He knew nothing about the injector bypass lines -- 'didn't even look under the hood. He may be an outstanding doctor, but he knows nothing about mechanics. 'He had no idea what I was talking about when I tried to tell him where the bypass lines are in plain view on top of the engine. Regarding the use of Dragon NaturallySpeaking, because of my tremor, I now have extreme difficulty using the keyboard. Dragon is beginning to work reasonably well. We're still training each other. It's still slow for me, but it's much easier for me now than trying to use the keyboard. Wilton
[MBZ] Diesel vs. gasoline
Tom - first, please don't think I was referring to you when I mentioned the American apparent lack of love or interest in Diesel vehicles. That comment of mine is the result of over 30 years of seeing at best lip service from US governmental and auto manufacturers in support of the technology. The only time there was a bit of effort in the pursuit of Diesel technology was in the oil crises of the '70s, and that died down quickly when petroleum fuels became more available and the US manufacturer's lost interest. Even MBUSA essentially gave up on promoting Diesel after the early '90s, with only sporadic offerings in '95 and then again around '99. Now that fuel again has gotten more expensive, and the technology has managed to produce cleaner and quieter engines, there are some tentative movements for new offerings. But you may have also missed my point that if you compare a 1987 300 SDL against a 300 SEL, the Diesel will provide enough improvement in mpg that the price one pays for fuel provides a savings, as long as it is less than 25% more than gasoline. So with 87 octane gas at $2.20, Diesel would have to be at least $2.75 before the cost to operate becomes about equal. And at this time, Diesel fuel here is around $2.40, and less than 91 Octane gasoline. And I don't agree that maintenance is higher for Diesels - the oil (assuming you are using the recommended high quality oils) and filters are about equal. Even the M-B dealers charge the same for an oil service in either technology car. Ten K miles between oil changes are reasonable for both technologies, assuming good synthetics are being used. And maintaining an ignition system (wires, plugs, etc.) can't be cheap, either. I know that in my '84SL the plugs were to be changed every 25k miles - not inexpensive! I'd wager that your Jeep would get a lot more miles per gallon if it had an equivalent Diesel engine in it. As for the SDL getting that low mileage, I would suggest looking into that as my SD gets 29 on the highway, and around 25 in town; the '90 300D regularly gets close to 31 mpg. And both cars are run around 70 mph on the interstates, so no "light" feet around here. (Is the available SDL White and in original (not modified) condition?) Werner ;-))) '90D 227k '83SD 223k F150 4x4 (and on a good day, 15 mpg!) - Original Message - From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 TD for sale Werner, I've owned 15 Mercedes to date and over half have been diesel powered. I hardly have my "head in the sand", or my a** for that matter. Of the gassers I've owned, 2 were 300E's and both got 21 MPG on the highway & 18 MPG in town. I also understand that the same body will get 25% better mileage but the maintenance cost is also higher with a diesel. Both oil changes & oil filters cost more. I also understand the longevity of a diesel but both of my 300E's went well over 250,000 miles. Also, diesel engines get better mileage because there is more energy per gallon of diesel than gas. But modern refining techniques let the gas companies pull what they want out of oil these days. In other words, they can make a barrel of crude oil into variety of fuels & lubricants through cracking & reformulating. The end result is that they can actually extract 25% more gas than diesel from the same crude oil! When you look at efficiency this way, the results are a wash. By the way, my current Mercedes is a 1987 300SDL. It gets 22 MPG in town & 26 MPG on the road. My Jeep gets 17 MPG in town & 21 MPG on the road. I drive the Jeep right now because the total cost per mile is cheaper. But the Jeep does burn regular gas. Anyone want a nice 300SDL with a leaky head gasket? It's only been leaky for the last 120,000 miles & does not seem to be getting worse.. Thanks, Tom Hargrave
Re: [MBZ] Porsche Speedster
Great restoration story! I was told once that when a Pebble Beach type resto is done, when ever the car is taken off the trailer for a show, the restoration process must start again. Naturally, not as detailed but (I'm just guessing here) the tires, brakes, perhaps parts of the engine if it's run for a while Then, if it's driven on the coast route (or whatever they call it) I would think even more parts need to be examined and cleaned/restored once again. is this totally off the wall? does a high quality resto last X years? I wonder how they determine when and how detailed the 2nd generation resto will be? While I enjoy restoring my cars - which usually consists of cleaning and repainting parts I remove on a car I intend to drive I wouldn;t have the patience to fully strip a car for restoration.. I seldom disassembly something merely to restore it like a show winning car would need to have done. While I did completely disassemble my '67 MGB that was mostly to allow me to replace and clean old parts - not to the kind of restoration ya'll did to the Speedster I found it to be a huge project. I'm still putting it back together after 16 years. Granted, a big part of that time was dead time while contemplated how I would deal with all the rust. I eventually bought a rust free B on ebay and transferred all my parts to it. But I still have the *whole* frigging interior to finish. ;-( Yep, it's a huge effort. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Porsche Speedster> That would be a pre-A, then. 1955 or earlier. Speedsters are still great to drive as long as iffy visibility with the top up and the odd rain leak is OK. Just so happens the my friend SJB and I spent five years restoring his '56 1600 Normal Speedster to Porsche Parade Concours standards. Complete disassembly followed by new floors, longitudinals, half the nose plus backdating the rear lights and adjusting the shut lines, allowing for paint thickness. Metalwork alone was 13 grand. Engine overhaul by Clark Anderson. Every single part in the car was either replaced or restored to as new condition. Every fastener refinished to the correct color. Instruments redone. New wiring harness. All new interior with the seats redone in tan leather. New tan top and sidecurtains. Nothing was too good for this car and I have never asked what the final bill was. I have seen many restored 356s and this car is at the top rank. Of the three restorations I helped with (a 1964 904GTS and a 1973 Carrera RS Touring), this one will not be sold. It's now carefully street driven and is a consistent Concours winner. The problem (if you would call it that) is that a true restoration is so expensive and time consuming that after the trophies are collected and the car has been around a while, it's time to move on to something else. We found that bringing something back from the dead to an example of perfection is more fun than after it's finished. My friend has moved on to a restoration of an entirely different sort, now. RLE ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/619 - Release Date: 1/7/2007
[MBZ] perks of MB ownership
Purchased Zerex G-5 this afternoon from my local NAPA and the guy gave me a $1/gal discount...$9.99/gal :) Seems he owns '72 and '73 450SL's and LOVED my CD. Nice. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work '85 300D (280,176) parts car
Re: [MBZ] 87 TD for sale
Werner, I've owned 15 Mercedes to date and over half have been diesel powered. I hardly have my "head in the sand", or my a** for that matter. Of the gassers I've owned, 2 were 300E's and both got 21 MPG on the highway & 18 MPG in town. I also understand that the same body will get 25% better mileage but the maintenance cost is also higher with a diesel. Both oil changes & oil filters cost more. I also understand the longevity of a diesel but both of my 300E's went well over 250,000 miles. Also, diesel engines get better mileage because there is more energy per gallon of diesel than gas. But modern refining techniques let the gas companies pull what they want out of oil these days. In other words, they can make a barrel of crude oil into variety of fuels & lubricants through cracking & reformulating. The end result is that they can actually extract 25% more gas than diesel from the same crude oil! When you look at efficiency this way, the results are a wash. By the way, my current Mercedes is a 1987 300SDL. It gets 22 MPG in town & 26 MPG on the road. My Jeep gets 17 MPG in town & 21 MPG on the road. I drive the Jeep right now because the total cost per mile is cheaper. But the Jeep does burn regular gas. Anyone want a nice 300SDL with a leaky head gasket? It's only been leaky for the last 120,000 miles & does not seem to be getting worse.. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Werner Fehlauer Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 3:57 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 TD for sale Tom - just because Diesel fuel costs more than gasoline in some markets, it is a fact that in an essentially identical vehicle, driven under the same conditions, you can expect 25-30% better fuel mileage in the Diesel. Therefore, unless the price of Diesel fuel exceeds 91 octane gasoline by more than 25%, you are still better off driving the Diesel from an out of pocket expense basis. And that ignores the drivability advantages, less oil imports, balance of payments issues, etc. IMO, its just the North Americans that have their heads in the sand about Diesel powered cars! Werner '90D '83SD - Original Message - From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 1:03 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 TD for sale >I believe so, but the 300TE was offered for more than one year & with the > price of diesel, I'd rather have the 300TE. > > Thanks, > Tom Hargrave > www.kegkits.com > 256-656-1924 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
