Re: [MBZ] Haters come hate speed humps, spoon drains, etc!

[G Mann]

It's not about how cool the air is.. it's about how cool you look, right?

Road trash, parking blocks, they all mean nothing.

Location sucks. Heat from the highway here would negate any gain from
cooling.. but then, perhaps it's a "snow to air" installation..  Ohhh..
wait.. snow bank.. left that hazard out.. ouch..
A fella just can't win..
Wax it, trailer queen it.. look cool.. parking lot runups and burnouts..
well maybe..

Grant...

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Alex Chamberlain
wrote:

> On Jul 7, 2013 8:36 PM, "Hendrik and Fay"  wrote:
> >
> > Relax, looks like an air to air intercooler.
> >
>
> What's the point of working out a custom mount and all the plumbing if
> you're just going to go air-to-air?  Water-to-air intercoolers make a much
> bigger difference in intake air density.
>
> Alex
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Re: [MBZ] Great vid -- dwarf cars

[G Mann]

Very interesting, especially so now that I know I'm only a 45 minute drive
away from his place.
Road trip.. for sure..

Grant...

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

> http://makezine.com/2013/07/**07/ernies-handmade-dwarf-cars/
>
> --R
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Haters come hate speed humps, spoon drains, etc!

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Jul 7, 2013 8:36 PM, "Hendrik and Fay"  wrote:
>
> Relax, looks like an air to air intercooler.
>

What's the point of working out a custom mount and all the plumbing if
you're just going to go air-to-air?  Water-to-air intercoolers make a much
bigger difference in intake air density.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] Black smoke and loping at idle.

[Dieselhead]

Dieselhead wrote:
II have engines sit for years and then fire right up.  I don't 
think purge will help this problem.


So, you think if the pumps were removed from good running cars, the 
problem isn't in storage, so we're either looking at two different 
sellers sticking him/me with bad pumps or mechanic failure?


The first one Mike had put in was probably wrapped in plastic in a 
basement for 8-10 years.


Mitch.


I still think both pumps were put in out of time by the same guy.

there are tricks to getting the pump on the right tooth of the drive 
spline.  not everyone checks carefully.



One guy rebent the injection lines to match the firing order.  1 4 3 
2 in place of just replacing the lines.  (1 2 3 4)  That was about 
max stupidity, but to a gas engine guy, the lines sort of resembled 
spark plug wires


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Re: [MBZ] NOW TURBOCHARGER --*** WAS Transmission W124 91 300D

[Dieselhead]

I don't know  how far or how fast- I do know when I do my 70 mile each  way
 commute on I95 it stays clean. About 300 miles/week @ 70- 80 mph. My
recently  acquired 300CD  had same problem. My late father- former truck
driver used to tell me  " son  drive a diesel like you stole it".


I Disagree!

Once the engine is warm, that advise is ok.  On a cold engine, you 
are likely to crack heads.
With a turbo, you want to let the engine idle for 5 min or so to cool 
down the turbo and head before shutting down.


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Re: [MBZ] One for Henifay

[Dieselhead]

Better jump on this one quick

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/sale-wanted-trade-giveaway/1719800-fs-240cd-manual-turbo-diesel-w123.html#post5850406
_


Not just the steering wheel is upside down and backwards, but the 
battery is too.


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Re: [MBZ] Haters come hate!

[Michael Canfield]

Argh!  To the pic and the coolant comment.

Mike
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Re: [MBZ] OM603 nicht startering

[Dieselhead]

A fella on the OzBenz list has a mate with a 124 300D that was taken 
to a doctors appointment and 2 hours later wouldn't start.

Here is his cry for help:

I am trying to get a friend's W124 300D going and was wondering what 
the expected mileage life could be for one of these engines?


There are good service records up until 300k, and it now has 470k on 
the clock. Although the motor cranks over and nearly starts it will 
just not run.


So far I have done some basic things such as cleaned the tank 
filter, blown out the line, fitted two new fuel filters from MB 
Spares, checked for a broken timing chain/correct engine and 
injector pump timing and they appear OK. Fuel is pulsing around each 
injector line, and there is test light voltage at the glow plugs. Am 
looking to do a compression test next when I can get the fittings.


The car was driven to a doctor's appointment one day and just 
refused to start again, and had to be towed.


I thought I had read that these motors were capable of quite high 
mileages, but am now fearing it may not have enough compression to 
fire. Could this be likely?

Any experienced thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
Col.

My guess is a busted headgasket leaking between cylinders, so in 
fact taking out two cylinder, I would think it would run on five 
cylinders.
Perhaps fuel shut off valve? However I don't know enough about the 
OM 603 to be able to come up with specifics.


Hendrik
who does not own an OM603

HENDRIK, IT IS SUCH A SHAME THAT YOU  DON'T HAVE AN OM603!  They are great!

I am thinking air leaking in the rubber hoses or rusted through steel 
lines.  That will keep it from starting.  I'd start by changing all 
the rubber hose bits. (including in and out of the tank.)


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Re: [MBZ] S class road test

[Dieselhead]

Depends on what you call "S Class" -- there has been a S chassis 
(for heavy) since at least 1953.


That would be the 22S in a couple variants and the 280S.

Peter


what about the typ SS and the subsequent typ SSK?

Those are S class in my book.

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[MBZ] Was someone looking for a deal on R-134a?

[Dave in SoCal]

12 oz. for $4 at Menards through 7/14. I don't use it but seems to be a decent 
price for small bottles.
Not available in Cali.

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/automotive/maintenance-fluids-additives/r-134a-refrigerant/p-1778256-c-10098.htm

or avoiding line wrap issues:

http://bit.ly/181OJm7


HTH,
Dave
82 240D (3 pedal), 84 300TD (Euro), 85 300TD (CA)


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Re: [MBZ] Haters come hate speed humps, spoon drains, etc!

[Rolf]

I went over a couple speed bumps for a test. I will be backing into all future 
parking spots! this was the best fit you can get on a w124 without cutting away 
at the bumper support.

Rolf
who prefers safety


Sent from my ASUS Pad

Hendrik and Fay  wrote:

>Relax, looks like an air to air intercooler.
>
>Hendrik
>who has a lot of scrapes on the front bumper
>
>On 08/07/13 12:55, Alex Chamberlain wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, what Craig said.  Yikes.  It makes me nervous just looking at that
>> thing and knowing there's coolant running through there.
>>
>> Alex
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Grant & big change

[Rick Knoble]

On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:11 PM, "Mountain Man"  wrote:

> It seems to me that someday what will be told is that similar to
> espionage from USA in all affairs over the past 50 years, USA fingers
> are all over the Egypt affair.
> What is the play?
> We are being played.


Always ask "Cui Bono?"  Who benefits?

Rick
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] How Hot Is Too Hot?

[Rick Knoble]

On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:38 PM, "Craig"  wrote:

> 
>> It was running about 90C this past fall after I flushed the cooling
>> system.
> 
> Is it hotter now than it was last fall when you benchmarked the 90C?

Oh yes. Quite a bit hotter. 


>> Maybe a faulty sender?
> 
> Too bad you couldn't rig up a way to immerse the sender in boiling water.
> (Of course, here it should register 92C, not 100.)

I suppose I could ohm it out, if I knew what the temperature-resistance 
correlation is...

The fan clutch is old and weak, I'm sure that isn't helping. 

Rick
Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Some guy takes a 220D to the track.

[Dieselhead]

I drove the 300SD up to Chapel Hill a coupla weeks ago to swap cars 
with my daughter.  We stayed at the SIL/BIL's place, which is in a 
development with a bunch of speed bumps.  Having driven there a lot 
I know how other cars handle those bumps.  In the 84 SD I never 
slowed down, it rolled right over them with no drama, barely felt 
it.  The 79 TD does the same thing.  I continue to be amazed by 
30-35yo technology.


--R

On 7/2/13 10:49 AM, Michael Canfield wrote:

Scares the
heck out of folks that have no idea what a Benz is capable of.





Was the same with the cars introduced in 1959 also.  At the Case 
proving ground where they tested backhoes etc 40 years ago.  A guy 
with a 220Sb always won the employee races on the proving grounds. 
It has superior suspension and went over the humps an bumps  better. 
BTW, the 220Sb and 220SEb were quite successful in cross country 
racing in the 1960 era.


30 some years ago I drove down a pitted/washboard kentucky coal road 
in my 190Dc several times, then one day I had to take the (1980?) 
Merkuric Zephyr (imitation Mercedes) down the same road.  I hit the 
road that the same speed, about 50, bounced off the roof and shook 
everyone's teethout until I got it slowed down.  That was a very 
graphic illustration of the superiority of MB suspension.


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Re: [MBZ] Haters come hate speed humps, spoon drains, etc!

[Hendrik and Fay]

Relax, looks like an air to air intercooler.

Hendrik
who has a lot of scrapes on the front bumper

On 08/07/13 12:55, Alex Chamberlain wrote:


Yeah, what Craig said.  Yikes.  It makes me nervous just looking at that
thing and knowing there's coolant running through there.

Alex



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Re: [MBZ] Haters come hate!

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Jul 7, 2013 6:26 PM, "Craig"  wrote:
>
> On Sun, 07 Jul 2013 21:22:31 -0400 Rolf  wrote:
>
> > Now I just need a fancy spoiler on the front.
> >
> >
http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/w124.1987.300d/intercooler.fitment/fmic.lights.jpg
>
> How about a cage to protect the intercooler from parking place stop and
> other damage?
>

Yeah, what Craig said.  Yikes.  It makes me nervous just looking at that
thing and knowing there's coolant running through there.

Alex
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[MBZ] Great vid -- dwarf cars

[Rich Thomas]

http://makezine.com/2013/07/07/ernies-handmade-dwarf-cars/

--R


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Re: [MBZ] How Hot Is Too Hot?

[Craig]

On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 20:18:45 -0500 Rick Knoble 
wrote:

> Got all the brake work done on the coupe the other day and now it is
> running warm. About 105C according to the gauge on the dash. Is that
> too hot?

Ours has been up to that temperature range, but it does come back down.
Now when we were in Arizona recently, we saw those kinds of temperatures
quite regularly.


> It was running about 90C this past fall after I flushed the cooling
> system.

Is it hotter now than it was last fall when you benchmarked the 90C?


> Maybe a faulty sender?

Too bad you couldn't rig up a way to immerse the sender in boiling water.
(Of course, here it should register 92C, not 100.)


> Time for a HF temp gun...

Could be ...


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Grant & big change

[G Mann]

It's all above my pay grade, so I speculate only, with few fact which could
be verified.

It appears, however, that the save people behind current administration are
heavily invested in the "Arab Spring" events.

Such as, the "new president apparent" of Egypt has served as an executive
with Geo Soros in an organization which has long term standing both in and
on the events leading up to and after the current set which has now
overthrown not one but two governments of Egypt.

Segue over to Lybia and look closely behind the scene and yet another set
of players emerges. All who lead back [follow the money and power] to the
same set of "players" such as Soros [and others]...

Are we being played?  Ask and answered, your honor.. Just have to breach
the veil of protection built around the "operators".

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Mountain Man  wrote:

> Grant has previously expressed ideas regarding big changes.
> What do you think of our news and Egypt?
> It seems to me that someday what will be told is that similar to
> espionage from USA in all affairs over the past 50 years, USA fingers
> are all over the Egypt affair.
> What is the play?
> We are being played.
> mao
>
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[MBZ] OT - Grant & big change

[Mountain Man]

Grant has previously expressed ideas regarding big changes.
What do you think of our news and Egypt?
It seems to me that someday what will be told is that similar to
espionage from USA in all affairs over the past 50 years, USA fingers
are all over the Egypt affair.
What is the play?
We are being played.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Haters come hate!

[Craig]

On Sun, 07 Jul 2013 21:22:31 -0400 Rolf  wrote:

> Now I just need a fancy spoiler on the front.
> 
> http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/w124.1987.300d/intercooler.fitment/fmic.lights.jpg
>  

How about a cage to protect the intercooler from parking place stop and
other damage?


Craig

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[MBZ] Haters come hate!

[Rolf]

Now I just need a fancy spoiler on the front.

http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/w124.1987.300d/intercooler.fitment/fmic.lights.jpg 



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[MBZ] How Hot Is Too Hot?

[Rick Knoble]

Got all the brake work done on the coupe the other day and now it is running 
warm. About 105C according to the gauge on the dash. Is that too hot? It was 
running about 90C this past fall after I flushed the cooling system. Maybe a 
faulty sender? Time for a HF temp gun...

Rick
Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Peter Frederick]

I believe Rolls Royce modified the engines as a result of the previous  
crash.  Don't know the specifics, but loss of power resulted in the  
crash and the cause of the low power was frozen or waxed up fuel in  
the engines, not the tanks.


Gelled fuel is a known hazard, but for some reason caused a crash  
after descent and on final approach.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:

>
> The last time something like this happened it was fuel waxing up resulting
> in power loss on final approach, which I'm sure will be examined.
>
>
How can something like that possibly happen these days?  Hasn't the
tendency of diesel fuel and similar substances such as jet fuel to gell at
low temperatures been well known for a hundred years?  Wouldn't it be
standard procedure to add an anti-gelling additive at the refinery?

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Peter Frederick]

I'm sure it's something unusual -- excellent airframe, not prone to  
squirrelyness  at low speeds, good airline, experienced pilot.


The last time something like this happened it was fuel waxing up  
resulting in power loss on final approach, which I'm sure will be  
examined.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] TURBOCHARGER --*** WAS Transmission W124 91 300D (now back to AT?) ; -)

[Michael Canfield]

Hey Larry,
  I don't know for sure but that name is what a waste gate does.

Mike
On Jul 7, 2013 12:30 PM, "Larry T"  wrote:

> Thanks Kaleb -- I am reviewing the WSM sections on the Turbo - I need your
> help on determining the names of the parts.  I always thought I knew what a
> waste gate was -- actually I know what it does and what they look like on
> some race engines but on this 602-962 engine i have turned to the manuals
> many illustrations to find the Waste Gate.
>
> Question - the illustrations talk of a *"Charge Pressure Control Valve"*
> /(09-0050 Function of Exhaust Gas Turbocharger)/ - would this be the Waste
> Gate?  It's the only part with a description that comes close to being a
> *"Waste Gate"*.
>
> Thanks again for sharing your knowledge -
> Larry
>
> On 7/6/2013 10:05 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>
>> The flapper above the turbo has nothing to do with the turbo. You need to
>> hook it up to the waste gate on the turbo if you are trying to manually
>> operate it to see if you get boost.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 6, 2013, at 8:36 PM, Larry T  wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Gang -
>>> Didn't start early doing my trouble shooting - wife worked o'time.
>>>  But what I did - hooked a vacuum gauge to the vac hose going to the the
>>> flapper valve above the Turbo - pulled approx 6" at idle and then went to
>>> 10 or more when I revved it up.   Then I re-attached the hose to the
>>> flapper valve and revved it again - it lifted the flap valve as I think it
>>> should.
>>>
>>> This tells me the turbo is working - no noises from anything.  I'm
>>> back to the AT not dropping down a gear when I punch it.
>>>
>>> BTW, my wife tells me she hears a rattle at light throttle.  Not
>>> sure what to make of that
>>>
>>> What does the brain trust think?  What should I work on next?
>>>
>>> Thanks Guys,
>>> LarryT
>>>
>>> On 7/6/2013 12:12 PM, Larry T wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Kaleb -
 first thing I'll try is hooking up the Vac Pump to the Turbo and see
 what happens  I was hoping one of the CVs is damaged as that's fairly
 common - but a leak in the vac system is also possible - and that may still
 prove to be a problem.  May as well cover the bases.   I have some inline
 filters George Murphy sent me -  they are supposed to indicate a blown out
 CV...

 As soon as I find a way to hook a line to the vac pump I'll give it
 a try..   I assume I can hook up the turbo end to the Flapper Valve
 Controller?

 Thanks again,
 LarryT

 -
 On 7/6/2013 11:15 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

> It's under eds, hundred and some odd pages iirc. Tells you how to test
> all the stuff.
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Curt Raymond]

Which is also a more comfortable spot from a bouncy perspective and the farther 
forward you are it tends to be quieter.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2013 10:23:53 -0400
From: Mitch Haley 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide
    path?
Message-ID: <51d979f9.7090...@voyager.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> Well, so much for the adage  that the safest part of the plane is in the
> back...  The two victims sat in the last row.

One incident doesn't disprove the claim that it's safest overall, just provides 
and example to show that it isn't safest in every crash.

BTW, didn't somebody publish a study claiming the sweet spot was fairly close 
to 
the wings?

Mitch.
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Re: [MBZ] Setting my hubs

[LarryT]

Ha!!  Sounds like a senior moment like I have sometimes!  At least you 
noticed something was odd before putting the wheels back on! ;-)


BTW, don't forget the lug nuts

Larry
(waiting for my wife to get home from work so I can try some of the 
great suggestions I rec'd to troubleshoot my AT problem.)


On 7/7/2013 4:10 PM, Rich Thomas wrote:
I got both discs and hubs back together and on the car, now I am 
fixing to set the slop in the bearings.  Never used the dial indicator 
before to do that, it is a bit fiddly.  I had to come in to check how 
many inches 2mm is (0.078)


I was doing the L side, getting the hub all greased, bearings all 
greased, ready to put back on the car, which I did.  Then I sat there 
and looked at it, and it looked odd for some reason.  Oh yeah, my wife 
came over just before I did that to get me to deal with the weed 
whacker, and in coming back to the hub I forgot that minor step to 
bolt the new rotor on the hub, and proceeded to install the hub 
without itduh  5 min later I am back in bidness!


I loosed my disk!

--R



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[MBZ] Setting my hubs

[Rich Thomas]

I got both discs and hubs back together and on the car, now I am fixing 
to set the slop in the bearings.  Never used the dial indicator before 
to do that, it is a bit fiddly.  I had to come in to check how many 
inches 2mm is (0.078)


I was doing the L side, getting the hub all greased, bearings all 
greased, ready to put back on the car, which I did.  Then I sat there 
and looked at it, and it looked odd for some reason.  Oh yeah, my wife 
came over just before I did that to get me to deal with the weed 
whacker, and in coming back to the hub I forgot that minor step to bolt 
the new rotor on the hub, and proceeded to install the hub without 
itduh  5 min later I am back in bidness!


I loosed my disk!

--R



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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Dan Penoff]

Having lived within sight of this approach for nearly six months and watched 
literally hundreds of landings, maybe more, with the conditions in place at the 
time I struggle to understand how a veteran crew like this could have possibly 
gone low or had a tail strike on approach.

The FDRs are going to yield some interesting information. I'll bet we hear from 
the NTSB about preliminary data before the end of the day...

Dan

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 7, 2013, at 3:42 PM, "WILTON"  wrote:

> Under run- way short!
> 
> Wilton
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
> 
> 
>> WILTON wrote:
>>> 'Hit the seawall at end of runway over-run!
>> Over run or under run?
>> Is this scenario possible in a 777?
>> We're coming in too low! Pull up! Pull up!
>> Oops, we pulled up so hard it hit tail first!
>> Mitch.
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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[WILTON]

Yep.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Jon Agne" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?



Clarification:  By runway, I mean runway threshold.


On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:54 AM, Jon Agne wrote:

It hit the GROUND.  The plane hit the seawall about 500' short of the 
runway.  Also looks like it was about 30' right of centerline.  Although 
I hate speculating, it looks like a classic case of low and slow.  Pilots 
were late in recognizing situation resulting in gear and/or tail section 
striking seaway in a nose up attitude.  This would cause an immediate 
slamming of the nose to the runway where it slid to a stop.


I'm sure we'll hear more soon.

It really is tragic.

Jon

On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:20 AM, Scott Ritchey wrote:



I watched the live helicopter video on FOX online for a bit shortly 
after
the crash.  There was a debris field of small parts starting in the 
water
and all over the underrun.  One main gear truck was lying on the runway 
very

close to the approach end.  It looked like horizontal and vertical tail
surfaces there too along with a trail of small debris.  Looks to me that
this thing started coming apart before it touched down.  The tail 
appeared

to break off cleanly just aft of the aft pressure bulkhead.  It really
looked to me like the tail hit something, but I can't imagine what.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of 
Michael

Canfield
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 8:57 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide 
path?


Sounds like someone is in a world of trouble.

Mike
On Jul 7, 2013 8:41 AM, "Gerry Archer"  wrote:


snipA San Francisco airport spokesman said a component of the

airport's
instrument landing system that tracks an incoming aeroplane's glide 
path

has
been out of service in recent weeks and was not operational on 
Saturday.
Pilots and air safety experts said the glide path technology was far 
from

essential for a safe landing in good weather. But Chesley "Sully"
Sullenberger, a retired pilot and safety consultant who gained fame for
landing a plane safely in the Hudson river in 2009, said investigators
would
certainly be looking into the issue.
"The pilots would have had to rely solely on visual cues to fly the 
proper

glide path to the runway, and not have had available to them the

electronic

information that they typically have even in good weather at most major
airports," he told a local TV news channelsnip

http://www.guardian.co.uk/**world/2013/jul/07/san-**


francisco-plane-crash-asiana-**airlines





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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[WILTON]

Hard to beat a Boeing.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Frederick" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?


Between the wings is the strongest part of the plane, so it would  
stand to reason it would be safest.  Problem is that all accidents  
are, thankfully, unique and what would be safest in one is not in  
another.


I'm still impressed by the strength of that airframe.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[WILTON]

My initial thought, too, was  that somebody must've, fallen out the back 
when the empennage broke off.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Andrew Strasfogel" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?



Well, so much for the adage  that the safest part of the plane is in the
back...  The two victims sat in the last row.

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Peter Frederick 
wrote:



Well, it definitely hit the seawall, and perhaps the water before it hit
the seawall.  Note the bright colored skin from the bottom of the tail 
all

crushed into a roll right by the tailcone.

Looks to me as if the main gear on one side and the tail hit the seawall,
and the loss of the main gear on one side made the plane uncontrollable 
(to

say nothing of losing the tail empennage at a critical point).

Too low, rotated too far, but why will take some time to figure out.

One hell of a tough airplane to stay nearly intact with most of the doors
functional after that sort of impact.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[WILTON]

Under run- way short!

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Mitch Haley" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?



WILTON wrote:

'Hit the seawall at end of runway over-run!


Over run or under run?

Is this scenario possible in a 777?
We're coming in too low! Pull up! Pull up!
Oops, we pulled up so hard it hit tail first!

Mitch.

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[MBZ] SLS vid

[Rich Thomas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haR2Q4JfWdc

--R



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Re: [MBZ] TURBOCHARGER --*** WAS Transmission W124 91 300D (now back to AT?) ; -)

[Larry T]

Thanks Kaleb -- I am reviewing the WSM sections on the Turbo - I need 
your help on determining the names of the parts.  I always thought I 
knew what a waste gate was -- actually I know what it does and what they 
look like on some race engines but on this 602-962 engine i have turned 
to the manuals many illustrations to find the Waste Gate.


Question - the illustrations talk of a *"Charge Pressure Control Valve"* 
/(09-0050 Function of Exhaust Gas Turbocharger)/ - would this be the 
Waste Gate?  It's the only part with a description that comes close to 
being a *"Waste Gate"*.


Thanks again for sharing your knowledge -
Larry

On 7/6/2013 10:05 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

The flapper above the turbo has nothing to do with the turbo. You need to hook 
it up to the waste gate on the turbo if you are trying to manually operate it 
to see if you get boost.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 6, 2013, at 8:36 PM, Larry T  wrote:


Hi Gang -
Didn't start early doing my trouble shooting - wife worked o'time.  But what I 
did - hooked a vacuum gauge to the vac hose going to the the flapper valve above the 
Turbo - pulled approx 6" at idle and then went to 10 or more when I revved it 
up.   Then I re-attached the hose to the flapper valve and revved it again - it 
lifted the flap valve as I think it should.

This tells me the turbo is working - no noises from anything.  I'm back to 
the AT not dropping down a gear when I punch it.

BTW, my wife tells me she hears a rattle at light throttle.  Not sure what 
to make of that

What does the brain trust think?  What should I work on next?

Thanks Guys,
LarryT

On 7/6/2013 12:12 PM, Larry T wrote:

Thanks Kaleb -
first thing I'll try is hooking up the Vac Pump to the Turbo and see what 
happens  I was hoping one of the CVs is damaged as that's fairly common - 
but a leak in the vac system is also possible - and that may still prove to be 
a problem.  May as well cover the bases.   I have some inline filters George 
Murphy sent me -  they are supposed to indicate a blown out CV...

As soon as I find a way to hook a line to the vac pump I'll give it a try.. 
  I assume I can hook up the turbo end to the Flapper Valve Controller?

Thanks again,
LarryT

-
On 7/6/2013 11:15 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

It's under eds, hundred and some odd pages iirc. Tells you how to test all the 
stuff.


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Re: [MBZ] NOW TURBOCHARGER --*** WAS Transmission W124 91 300D (now back to AT?) ; -)

[Larry T]

Thanks Peter --
I still have a number of replies to read but I need to pull the 
lower covers so I can start looking over the AT to see if somethingis 
broken..If there are plastic parts in the kick-down linkcage that's 
a possibility of beingbroken it's certainly something I need to check.


as kaleb mentioned, there are many things to look at -- also I 
don't have the tools needed to test all of the potential problems.  i've 
printed many of the turbo related pages from the WSM and will study them 
to become more familar with the systems involved.


But to you and all the others offering advice i have a sincere 
thank you for all the help given here.


Thanks to all of you --

Sincerely -
LarryT

On 7/6/2013 10:01 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:

If you can hear the turbo, it's shot, they are very quiet.

Just because the flap moves doesn't mean you have boost, but you do 
have one working switchover valve anyway.


Check the kickdown cable for proper operation.  I don't know if it 
works like the one on the 87, but if it does it is all the way out at 
closed "throttle" and all the way in wide open (backwards from the 
usual system where it pulls out) and if the plastic adjuster is 
broken, as mine is, it may not work properly.  Ditto if the end has 
come adrift, as it will retract all the way and mimic driving with 
your foot to the floor all the time, and if stuck all the way out and 
not retracting, will not downshift properly.


Same thing goes for a bad vac line to the transmission modulator too.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] NOW TURBOCHARGER --*** WAS Transmission W124 91 300D (nowback to AT?) ; -)

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

You have a leak somewhere

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 7, 2013, at 5:50 AM, "Gerry Archer"  wrote:

> Beg to disagree.  Turbo in my '83 300D has been singing to me for over 100K 
> miles.
> Gerry
> 
> From: "Peter Frederick" 
>> If you can hear the turbo, it's shot, they are very quiet.
>> Just because the flap moves doesn't mean you have boost, but you do  have 
>> one working switchover valve anyway.
>> Check the kickdown cable for proper operation.  I don't know if it  works 
>> like the one on the 87, but if it does it is all the way out at  closed 
>> "throttle" and all the way in wide open (backwards from the  usual system 
>> where it pulls out) and if the plastic adjuster is  broken, as mine is, it 
>> may not work properly.  Ditto if the end has  come adrift, as it will 
>> retract all the way and mimic driving with  your foot to the floor all the 
>> time, and if stuck all the way out and  not retracting, will not downshift 
>> properly.
>> Same thing goes for a bad vac line to the transmission modulator too.
>> Peter
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Jon Agne]

Clarification:  By runway, I mean runway threshold.


On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:54 AM, Jon Agne wrote:

> It hit the GROUND.  The plane hit the seawall about 500' short of the runway. 
>  Also looks like it was about 30' right of centerline.  Although I hate 
> speculating, it looks like a classic case of low and slow.  Pilots were late 
> in recognizing situation resulting in gear and/or tail section striking 
> seaway in a nose up attitude.  This would cause an immediate slamming of the 
> nose to the runway where it slid to a stop.
> 
> I'm sure we'll hear more soon.
> 
> It really is tragic.
> 
> Jon
> 
> On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:20 AM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I watched the live helicopter video on FOX online for a bit shortly after
>> the crash.  There was a debris field of small parts starting in the water
>> and all over the underrun.  One main gear truck was lying on the runway very
>> close to the approach end.  It looked like horizontal and vertical tail
>> surfaces there too along with a trail of small debris.  Looks to me that
>> this thing started coming apart before it touched down.  The tail appeared
>> to break off cleanly just aft of the aft pressure bulkhead.  It really
>> looked to me like the tail hit something, but I can't imagine what.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Michael
>> Canfield
>> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 8:57 AM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
>> 
>> Sounds like someone is in a world of trouble.
>> 
>> Mike
>> On Jul 7, 2013 8:41 AM, "Gerry Archer"  wrote:
>> 
>>> snipA San Francisco airport spokesman said a component of the
>> airport's
>>> instrument landing system that tracks an incoming aeroplane's glide path
>>> has
>>> been out of service in recent weeks and was not operational on Saturday.
>>> Pilots and air safety experts said the glide path technology was far from
>>> essential for a safe landing in good weather. But Chesley "Sully"
>>> Sullenberger, a retired pilot and safety consultant who gained fame for
>>> landing a plane safely in the Hudson river in 2009, said investigators
>>> would
>>> certainly be looking into the issue.
>>> "The pilots would have had to rely solely on visual cues to fly the proper
>>> glide path to the runway, and not have had available to them the
>> electronic
>>> information that they typically have even in good weather at most major
>>> airports," he told a local TV news channelsnip
>>> 
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/**world/2013/jul/07/san-**
>>> 
>> francisco-plane-crash-asiana-**airlines> /jul/07/san-francisco-plane-crash-asiana-airlines>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Jon Agne]

Food for thought.if you are over the wings, you are also sitting over the 
fuel.


On Jul 7, 2013, at 10:30 AM, Peter Frederick wrote:

> Between the wings is the strongest part of the plane, so it would stand to 
> reason it would be safest.  Problem is that all accidents are, thankfully, 
> unique and what would be safest in one is not in another.
> 
> I'm still impressed by the strength of that airframe.
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Jon Agne]

It hit the GROUND.  The plane hit the seawall about 500' short of the runway.  
Also looks like it was about 30' right of centerline.  Although I hate 
speculating, it looks like a classic case of low and slow.  Pilots were late in 
recognizing situation resulting in gear and/or tail section striking seaway in 
a nose up attitude.  This would cause an immediate slamming of the nose to the 
runway where it slid to a stop.

I'm sure we'll hear more soon.

It really is tragic.

Jon

On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:20 AM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

> 
> I watched the live helicopter video on FOX online for a bit shortly after
> the crash.  There was a debris field of small parts starting in the water
> and all over the underrun.  One main gear truck was lying on the runway very
> close to the approach end.  It looked like horizontal and vertical tail
> surfaces there too along with a trail of small debris.  Looks to me that
> this thing started coming apart before it touched down.  The tail appeared
> to break off cleanly just aft of the aft pressure bulkhead.  It really
> looked to me like the tail hit something, but I can't imagine what.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Michael
> Canfield
> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 8:57 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
> 
> Sounds like someone is in a world of trouble.
> 
> Mike
> On Jul 7, 2013 8:41 AM, "Gerry Archer"  wrote:
> 
>> snipA San Francisco airport spokesman said a component of the
> airport's
>> instrument landing system that tracks an incoming aeroplane's glide path
>> has
>> been out of service in recent weeks and was not operational on Saturday.
>> Pilots and air safety experts said the glide path technology was far from
>> essential for a safe landing in good weather. But Chesley "Sully"
>> Sullenberger, a retired pilot and safety consultant who gained fame for
>> landing a plane safely in the Hudson river in 2009, said investigators
>> would
>> certainly be looking into the issue.
>> "The pilots would have had to rely solely on visual cues to fly the proper
>> glide path to the runway, and not have had available to them the
> electronic
>> information that they typically have even in good weather at most major
>> airports," he told a local TV news channelsnip
>> 
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/**world/2013/jul/07/san-**
>> 
> francisco-plane-crash-asiana-**airlines /jul/07/san-francisco-plane-crash-asiana-airlines>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Peter Frederick]

Between the wings is the strongest part of the plane, so it would  
stand to reason it would be safest.  Problem is that all accidents  
are, thankfully, unique and what would be safest in one is not in  
another.


I'm still impressed by the strength of that airframe.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] NOW TURBOCHARGER --*** WAS Transmission W124 91 300D (nowback to AT?) ; -)

[Michael Canfield]

Every w123 I have driven you could hear the turbo.  My ears are very
sensitive to high frequencies and mechanical noises in general.  I guess I
am actually listening for it every time I drive.

Mike
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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Mitch Haley]

Andrew Strasfogel wrote:

Well, so much for the adage  that the safest part of the plane is in the
back...  The two victims sat in the last row.


One incident doesn't disprove the claim that it's safest overall, just provides 
and example to show that it isn't safest in every crash.


BTW, didn't somebody publish a study claiming the sweet spot was fairly close to 
the wings?


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] NOW TURBOCHARGER --*** WAS Transmission W124 91 300D (nowback to AT?) ; -)

[Michael Canfield]

Ah..guess I should pay more attention eh?

Mike
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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Craig]

On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 10:10:08 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel
 wrote:

> Well, so much for the adage  that the safest part of the plane is in the
> back...  The two victims sat in the last row.

That adage, unfortunately, was disproved years ago with a crash at Dallas
and other crashes that occurred at the same time.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Andrew Strasfogel]

Well, so much for the adage  that the safest part of the plane is in the
back...  The two victims sat in the last row.

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Peter Frederick wrote:

> Well, it definitely hit the seawall, and perhaps the water before it hit
> the seawall.  Note the bright colored skin from the bottom of the tail all
> crushed into a roll right by the tailcone.
>
> Looks to me as if the main gear on one side and the tail hit the seawall,
> and the loss of the main gear on one side made the plane uncontrollable (to
> say nothing of losing the tail empennage at a critical point).
>
> Too low, rotated too far, but why will take some time to figure out.
>
> One hell of a tough airplane to stay nearly intact with most of the doors
> functional after that sort of impact.
>
> Peter
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] NOW TURBOCHARGER --*** WAS Transmission W124 91 300D (nowback to AT?) ; -)

[Peter Frederick]

I don't remember hearing a turbo in a W123 being normal either, but  
will find out soon.  Certainly did not hear one in the W126 with OM617  
I test drove.


Volvo is another story, those sound like a police siren a couple  
blocks away!


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Peter Frederick]

Well, it definitely hit the seawall, and perhaps the water before it  
hit the seawall.  Note the bright colored skin from the bottom of the  
tail all crushed into a roll right by the tailcone.


Looks to me as if the main gear on one side and the tail hit the  
seawall, and the loss of the main gear on one side made the plane  
uncontrollable (to say nothing of losing the tail empennage at a  
critical point).


Too low, rotated too far, but why will take some time to figure out.

One hell of a tough airplane to stay nearly intact with most of the  
doors functional after that sort of impact.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Rich Thomas]

The Beeb say it was coming in low and hot.  oops.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23216587

--R


On 7/7/13 9:38 AM, Mitch Haley wrote:

WILTON wrote:

'Hit the seawall at end of runway over-run!


Over run or under run?

Is this scenario possible in a 777?
We're coming in too low! Pull up! Pull up!
Oops, we pulled up so hard it hit tail first!

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] NOW TURBOCHARGER --*** WAS Transmission W124 91 300D (nowback to AT?) ; -)

[Craig]

On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 08:51:30 -0400 Michael Canfield 
wrote:

> Gotta agree with Gerry on this one.  I love the faint sound of the
> turbo on my 83 300d.  Maybe my 2.5" straight pipe exhaust has something
> to do with it...lol

You and Gerry are talking about a W123 turbo. Larry, Peter, and I were
talking about a W124 turbo -- not the same thing.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Mitch Haley]

WILTON wrote:

'Hit the seawall at end of runway over-run!


Over run or under run?

Is this scenario possible in a 777?
We're coming in too low! Pull up! Pull up!
Oops, we pulled up so hard it hit tail first!

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Update 2004 E320 4matic - Water on Front Passenger's Side after Heavy Rain

[Jim Cathey]

Didn't you say that this _had_ been obstructed, and had
been cleaned out by somebody?  Over-aggressive cleaning,
or perhaps a dirt-clogged and water-filled drain channel
went through a freeze cycle?  Your car's a bit young to
exhibit aging rubber syndrome there.

looking for service manual instructions or schematic list on taking 
off the sunroof to access that area...


Based on my recollection of the service manual instructions
for earlier cars, you are _not_ going to enjoy this.  Sorry.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[WILTON]

'Hit the seawall at end of runway over-run!

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Ritchey" 

To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?




I watched the live helicopter video on FOX online for a bit shortly after
the crash.  There was a debris field of small parts starting in the water
and all over the underrun.  One main gear truck was lying on the runway 
very

close to the approach end.  It looked like horizontal and vertical tail
surfaces there too along with a trail of small debris.  Looks to me that
this thing started coming apart before it touched down.  The tail appeared
to break off cleanly just aft of the aft pressure bulkhead.  It really
looked to me like the tail hit something, but I can't imagine what.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Canfield
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 8:57 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide 
path?


Sounds like someone is in a world of trouble.

Mike
On Jul 7, 2013 8:41 AM, "Gerry Archer"  wrote:


snipA San Francisco airport spokesman said a component of the

airport's

instrument landing system that tracks an incoming aeroplane's glide path
has
been out of service in recent weeks and was not operational on Saturday.
Pilots and air safety experts said the glide path technology was far from
essential for a safe landing in good weather. But Chesley "Sully"
Sullenberger, a retired pilot and safety consultant who gained fame for
landing a plane safely in the Hudson river in 2009, said investigators
would
certainly be looking into the issue.
"The pilots would have had to rely solely on visual cues to fly the 
proper

glide path to the runway, and not have had available to them the

electronic

information that they typically have even in good weather at most major
airports," he told a local TV news channelsnip

 http://www.guardian.co.uk/**world/2013/jul/07/san-**


francisco-plane-crash-asiana-**airlines





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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Scott Ritchey]

I watched the live helicopter video on FOX online for a bit shortly after
the crash.  There was a debris field of small parts starting in the water
and all over the underrun.  One main gear truck was lying on the runway very
close to the approach end.  It looked like horizontal and vertical tail
surfaces there too along with a trail of small debris.  Looks to me that
this thing started coming apart before it touched down.  The tail appeared
to break off cleanly just aft of the aft pressure bulkhead.  It really
looked to me like the tail hit something, but I can't imagine what.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Canfield
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 8:57 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

Sounds like someone is in a world of trouble.

Mike
On Jul 7, 2013 8:41 AM, "Gerry Archer"  wrote:

> snipA San Francisco airport spokesman said a component of the
airport's
> instrument landing system that tracks an incoming aeroplane's glide path
> has
> been out of service in recent weeks and was not operational on Saturday.
> Pilots and air safety experts said the glide path technology was far from
> essential for a safe landing in good weather. But Chesley "Sully"
> Sullenberger, a retired pilot and safety consultant who gained fame for
> landing a plane safely in the Hudson river in 2009, said investigators
> would
> certainly be looking into the issue.
> "The pilots would have had to rely solely on visual cues to fly the proper
> glide path to the runway, and not have had available to them the
electronic
> information that they typically have even in good weather at most major
> airports," he told a local TV news channelsnip
>
>  http://www.guardian.co.uk/**world/2013/jul/07/san-**
>
francisco-plane-crash-asiana-**airlines
>
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Mitch Haley]

Michael Canfield wrote:

Sounds like someone is in a world of trouble.


Yeah, how many WEEKS is is OK to leave something like that unfixed at an 
oceanfront international airport with SFO's traffic volume?


Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] Update 2004 E320 4matic - Water on Front Passenger's Side after Heavy Rain

[Mitch Haley]

Jim Cathey wrote:


I will say it again.  The drain hose is either split, probably
where it hooks onto the drain channel nipple, or it's pushed off
a little bit.  Or there is a rusty spot in the tray.  Some of the
water is not going where it's supposed to.


If he can pour a gallon down the drain without thinking he lost any (I suppose 
one could measure what comes out the bottom and compare to what went in the top)
then I'd say some large fraction of it isn't making it to the drain hose when 
you aren't aiming it at the drain hose with a funnel.


If the hose/funnel combo went past the nipple into the hose, pushed off the 
nipple might still be in play. A rust hole in the tray seems odd given the

~10 year age of the car.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Michael Canfield]

Sounds like someone is in a world of trouble.

Mike
On Jul 7, 2013 8:41 AM, "Gerry Archer"  wrote:

> snipA San Francisco airport spokesman said a component of the airport's
> instrument landing system that tracks an incoming aeroplane's glide path
> has
> been out of service in recent weeks and was not operational on Saturday.
> Pilots and air safety experts said the glide path technology was far from
> essential for a safe landing in good weather. But Chesley "Sully"
> Sullenberger, a retired pilot and safety consultant who gained fame for
> landing a plane safely in the Hudson river in 2009, said investigators
> would
> certainly be looking into the issue.
> "The pilots would have had to rely solely on visual cues to fly the proper
> glide path to the runway, and not have had available to them the electronic
> information that they typically have even in good weather at most major
> airports," he told a local TV news channelsnip
>
>  http://www.guardian.co.uk/**world/2013/jul/07/san-**
> francisco-plane-crash-asiana-**airlines
>
>
>
>
> __**_
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Re: [MBZ] NOW TURBOCHARGER --*** WAS Transmission W124 91 300D (nowback to AT?) ; -)

[Michael Canfield]

Gotta agree with Gerry on this one.  I love the faint sound of the turbo on
my 83 300d.  Maybe my 2.5" straight pipe exhaust has something to do with
it...lol

Mike
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[MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?

[Gerry Archer]

snipA San Francisco airport spokesman said a component of the airport's
instrument landing system that tracks an incoming aeroplane's glide path has
been out of service in recent weeks and was not operational on Saturday.
Pilots and air safety experts said the glide path technology was far from
essential for a safe landing in good weather. But Chesley "Sully"
Sullenberger, a retired pilot and safety consultant who gained fame for
landing a plane safely in the Hudson river in 2009, said investigators would
certainly be looking into the issue.
"The pilots would have had to rely solely on visual cues to fly the proper
glide path to the runway, and not have had available to them the electronic
information that they typically have even in good weather at most major
airports," he told a local TV news channelsnip

 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/07/san-francisco-plane-crash-asiana-airlines




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Re: [MBZ] NOW TURBOCHARGER --*** WAS Transmission W124 91 300D (nowback to AT?) ; -)

[Gerry Archer]

Beg to disagree.  Turbo in my '83 300D has been singing to me for over 100K 
miles.

Gerry

From: "Peter Frederick" 

If you can hear the turbo, it's shot, they are very quiet.
Just because the flap moves doesn't mean you have boost, but you do  have 
one working switchover valve anyway.
Check the kickdown cable for proper operation.  I don't know if it  works 
like the one on the 87, but if it does it is all the way out at  closed 
"throttle" and all the way in wide open (backwards from the  usual system 
where it pulls out) and if the plastic adjuster is  broken, as mine is, it 
may not work properly.  Ditto if the end has  come adrift, as it will 
retract all the way and mimic driving with  your foot to the floor all the 
time, and if stuck all the way out and  not retracting, will not downshift 
properly.

Same thing goes for a bad vac line to the transmission modulator too.
Peter



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