Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Clay via Mercedes]

I have “recovered” from a plethora of pulmonary infections.  I also have some 
lasting lung damage due to environmental and infectious assault.  The recovery 
as a youth was just as prolonged as my most recent event.  So far, I have 
failed to die from this.  Should I either perish or not when WRD catches me, in 
the grand scheme it will not matter.  The world keeps on spinning.

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jul 8, 2020, at 10:40 AM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Actually, the degree of recovery has come into question with things like
> lasting lung damage, etc.
> 
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 1:19 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
>> 
>> That's an odd statement. Seems to me the death count is the *only* thing
>> that matters. Otherwise, you're just sick and eventually recover.
>> 
>> Allan

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Wed, July 8, 2020 2:40 pm, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
> Actually, the degree of recovery has come into question with things like
> lasting lung damage, etc.

Scar tissue in the lungs is bad.
Lack of oxygen to the brain, if allowed to persist before getting medical
attention, is bad. I haven't heard of anybody with stroke symptoms as a
result of COVID, but I can imagine it happening.
Loss of taste is a major annoyance, less so if it comes back in
weeks/months to follow.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Actually, the degree of recovery has come into question with things like
lasting lung damage, etc.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 1:19 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
>
> That's an odd statement. Seems to me the death count is the *only* thing
> that matters. Otherwise, you're just sick and eventually recover.
>
> Allan
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

That is what I thought also, but then again so much about this whole deal seems 
to defy logic 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 1:19 PM, Allan Streib  wrote:
> 
> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> You don’t hear about this on the news. Actually last night I
>> did. Fauci was saying don’t be fooled by the drop in the death
>> count. It means nothing.
> 
> That's an odd statement. Seems to me the death count is the *only* thing
> that matters. Otherwise, you're just sick and eventually recover.
> 
> Allan


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:

> You don’t hear about this on the news. Actually last night I
> did. Fauci was saying don’t be fooled by the drop in the death
> count. It means nothing.

That's an odd statement. Seems to me the death count is the *only* thing
that matters. Otherwise, you're just sick and eventually recover.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> Meade wrote:

> Sure, when one is sick, wearing a mask to catch the droplets
> when you cough or sneeze is valid.  No argument there.

Maybe there should be.  Big droplets will quickly drop to the
ground.  Most folks recognize that the ground isn't clean and
rarely put their feet or their faces without washing first.

With a mask, those droplets stay on the mask, and can easily get
on hands, and then hands touch other things that are usually
treated less carefully than the floor.

So there _is_ an argument than a mask could make it less safe for
others than no mask.

Just say'n.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> Jaime wrote:

>  ...lock down has been very successful. 

Or it did nothing and the virus was much less dangerous than forecast.

> Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
> political agenda. 

Or saying it help is ignoring scientifically proven facts and
favoring political agenda.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Thank you Karl. This is very helpful.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020, 10:42 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Kaleb, I agree that this epidemic has been disruptive to the economy. But
> the economic pain will be far greater if the epidemic continues to affect
> the US disproportionately to other countries.
>
> The article is good. But it makes no mention of CO2 or O2. This is because
> all that gas exchange concern is complete crap designed to make people
> afraid of masks. Don't listen to it. Something like a billion people are
> wearing them and somehow surviving just fine. This is common sense. I wear
> one all day every day. The article describes lack of evidence for mask
> effectiveness for influenza, which believe it or not acts differently from
> this virus because it is less often asymptomatic/minimally symptomatic and
> it is not shed in high quantities early in the illness before severe
> symptoms develop. I actually had this discussion with our head of hospital
> epi at the beginning of the epidemic, and he came at me with the lack of
> evidence for public wearing the mask. Not to repeat myself, but sometimes
> you have to make policy on less than watertight evidence. And the evidence
> for mask effectiveness is stronger for this disease, partly as a result of
> the disease and partly as a result of us devoting more resources to
> answering this question.
>
> You have nothing to lose by wearing a mask, except the mask cost and slight
> inconvenience of adjusting behavior.
>
> Flying is a lot lower risk now that no one is doing it. Incidentally the
> original airliners were 100% fresh cabin air from the vents, but my dad
> told me yesterday that they were pulling too much power from the turbine
> compressors so they reduced it to the current 50% back in the 60/70s. The
> other problem is that the vents blow down and mix the warm air rising from
> the humans below. That will require redesign of aircraft even though the
> vent air is hepa  filtered. Problem is recirculation of the air in the
> cabin; lots of it is not filtered at all.
>
> You cannot just reject the curve numbers. Locking down definitely slowed
> transmission in Los Angeles. Our curve flattened with lockdown, then
> started rising again three weeks after reopening began, specifically 3
> weeks after Memorial Day weekend. I agree lockdowns are unprecedented and
> that there was therefore no evidence that they work, but consider there is
> no evidence that parachutes save skydivers either. Kind of hard to find
> controls for that study.
>
> You are right that for a majority of people this is a mild illness. That
> does not mean you will be in that majority, or people that you love, or
> even people in your church if you go to one. We still do not understand all
> the reasons for this. Certainly age, obesity and gender are risk factors.
> But they do not explain the otherwise healthy 41 year olds being
> hospitalized for 6 weeks. Not a majority, but it is happening. And we have
> lots of elderly and diabetic people in the nation, and people on
> immunosuppressive drugs for rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, organ
> transplantattion etc. Kind of cynical to tell them good luck but not do
> anything to help them reduce their risk of getting sick.
>
> Controlling this thing is not a very big deal economically or personally.
> NOT controlling it will be very costly to the economy over a long period of
> time. Decide which version of america you want to live in for the next year
> or two, and act accordingly. I would submit that hope is not a strategy,
> and that the beatings the virus is giving us will continue until morale
> improves.
>
> PS I found a used 2.88 diff on ebay. There were two of them, one 400
> dollars but it was already sent to the crusher, and one 499 a guy had in
> huntington beach. Reinvent has one but they want the typical 700 dollar
> fortune for it.
>
> One can play the "Youth is on my side and too bad for you" game, but that
> is sort of a bad attitude IMHO. Do unto others etc.
>
> Karl
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 11:27 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Lower o2 levels, higher co2 levels, mask catches all sorts of
> > contamination that you constantly breath in when putting dirty masks back
> > on. Here is an article I found from several years ago.
> >
> > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868614/
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when
> > venturing outside and mingling with other people.
> > >
> > >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:57 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It
> > has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common
> sense.
> > If you want to wear a 

Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Yeah. Younger people die less from this.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020, 7:16 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> You don’t hear about this on the news. Actually last night I did. Fauci
> was saying don’t be fooled by the drop in the death count. It means
> nothing.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 8, 2020, at 12:17 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Even so, COVID deaths are dropping like a stone:
> https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm
> >
> > NY and NJ quarantines are pretty funny when you compare NY/NJ deaths to
> the states they want to quarantine.
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2020 7:49 PM
> >> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> >> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a
> world
> >> scandal
> >>
> >> Except the number of deaths is highly inflated. You get shot, tested
> positive for
> >> covid and die, your death is reported as a covid death. Heart attack?
> Same
> >> thing. This is the guidelines they have to follow from the cdc, or so
> has been
> >> reported in the media.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
>  On Jul 7, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Curt Raymond 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> A flu season that killed 150,000 people? Thats 5 times normal in 5
> months.
> >> Oh and its not done yet, flu season got over with, the US is losing
> 1/30th of a
> >> flu season to COVID every day...
> >>>
> >>> -Curt
> >>>
> >>> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 6:22:37 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If we never heard a word out of the media about covid I suspect we
> >>> would have just thought this was a bad cold and flu season.  In other
> >>> words, normal common sense would be to be good with hand washing,
> >>> covering your mouth when coughing, and stay home if you are sick.
> >>>
> >>> On 7/7/2020 5:16 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
>  Curt, can you cite any peer reviewed study that indicates how much the
> >> risk is reduced by the general population wearing masks?  Sure, masks
> (and
> >> gloves and gowns) all work in a hospital setting to provide a good risk
> >> reduction for the imposed cost.  Don't forget the training for those
> workers.
> >> Got it, that's fine, no argument.  I don't live in a hospital, don't
> work in one,
> >> please don't cite a study about hospitals.
> 
>  Let's follow the science.  Where's the study?  "Experts say" doesn't
> cut it
> >> anymore, the so-called experts contradict themselves, especially on this
> >> question of masks.
> 
>  Jul 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> >> :
> 
> > Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
> >> wearing a mask increases MY risk...
> > So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be
> carrying
> >> but you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
> > -Curt
> >
> > On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:44:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via
> > Mercedes
>  Max Dillon
>  Charleston SC
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

My friend Magnus is a doctor there. They have taken more measures than they
are given credit for. Very little to suggest they had less economic impact,
and they definitely had more death than their neighbors. Not like we are in
any position to criticise.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 12:09 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> A friend’s sister lives there and says the opposite.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 1:04 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >  Lets add Sweden into the mix, minimal lockdown, much higher infection
> and death rate. A death rate even higher than ours in fact...
> > -Curt
> >
> >On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:54:21 PM EDT, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > By that logic, we need to either (a) close down our borders and pretend
> like we are an island or (b) institute a strong authoritarian central
> government and eliminate all liberty (china) or (c) look at one outlier,
> Germany, and pretend like all those other countries and US states that
> didn't lock down, pretend they don't exist.  They don't count because
> Germany.
> >
> > Max Dillon
> > Charleston SC
> >
> > Jul 7, 2020 11:26:12 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>:
> >
> >> Except for New Zealand and Iceland, which were largely spared.  Also
> >> Germany.  The problem is that people act like idiots once restrictions
> are
> >> loosened.
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 6:25 PM Craig via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/28/lack-evidence-lockdowns-actually-worked-world-scandal/
> >>>
> >>> There is still not a shred of real proof that the planet's reckless
> >>> stay-at-home experiment made any difference
> >>>
> >>> Craig
> >>>
> >>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

When public health measures work, nothing happens. Thets the nature of
prevention. No one has done a study to give you the evidence you seek, for
a variety of practical reasons such as being in the middle of a pandemic.
But there is an awful lot of emipric evidence pointing in the direction
that masks reduce transmission.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 11:52 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> How many people did not get the virus due to wearing a mask? What about
> the number of people who did get the virus while wearing a mask? Has
> anybody heard numbers about this?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >  If that's true why don't surgeons drop in their tracks? How can they
> go through complex, long operations all while wearing a mask?
> > I find the dual arguments particularly funny:#1. The mask isn't fine
> enough and can't possibly be doing any goodand#2. The mask blocks so much
> air that its killing you with CO2.
> > O2/CO2 is much smaller than a virus, if a virus can pass through the
> mask easily then air ought to also...
> > -Curt
> >
> >On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:38:40 PM EDT, Craig via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 13:17:51 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when
> >> venturing outside and mingling with other people.
> >
> > Masks cause the level of CO2 you breathe to increase, which causes the
> > level of CO2 in your blood to increase, which causes your immune system
> > activity to decrease.
> >
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > ___
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

I'm not wearing it to protect me. I'm wearing it to protect you.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 11:45 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Then by all means wear a mask. That is the beauty of this country. If it
> makes you feel better, wear it. Those that do not want to wear a mask,
> don’t. Pretty simple. If you are scared of all the people not wearing a
> mask, wear 2 masks or stay at home.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > That article sucks, as it its poorly written without a clear reason to
> exist.
> >
> > What it says, if you read it a couple times and dig through all the
> extra words, is that wearing a mask when there isn't a pandemic scares
> people. If you dig around a bit you find "concluded that the surgical mask
> was noninferior to the N95 mask in terms of influenza transmission rates
> among health care workers."
> >
> > Which says, straight up, that a mask reduces transmission rates.
> >
> > The O2/CO2 levels debate is just people spewing nonsense due to not
> wanting to wear a mask, its been dis-proven time and time again. You can
> find plenty of evidence of people going for a run with a mask on and not
> having lowered O2 or elevated CO2. To say otherwise ignores a growing
> mountain of evidence.
> >
> > -Curt
> >
> > On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:26:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Lower o2 levels, higher co2 levels, mask catches all sorts of
> contamination that you constantly breath in when putting dirty masks back
> on. Here is an article I found from several years ago.
> >
> > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868614/
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when
> venturing outside and mingling with other people.
> > >
> > >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:57 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It
> has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common sense.
> If you want to wear a mask or never leave the house, fine. Otherwise there
> is so much misinformation about wearing masks or not, locking or not has
> done any good. The numbers are not accurate and can’t be trusted. One thing
> is certain the economy has been destroyed. Next week I will be flying again
> and I am not the least bit concerned.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our
> numbers
> > >> > and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
> > >> > successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven
> facts for
> > >> > political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all
> need to
> > >> > change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
> > >> > recommendations.
> > >> >
> > >> > If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around
> other
> > >> > people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and
> make this
> > >> > statement.
> > >> >
> > >> > I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and
> discuss... you
> > >> > guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong
> political
> > >> > bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact
> that this
> > >> > is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and
> avoid
> > >> > others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> > >> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is
> becoming
> > >> >> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal
> as they
> > >> >> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive
> because we
> > >> >> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because
> many people
> > >> >> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >> >>
> > >> >>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> > >> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
> > >> >> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big
> economic hit,
> > >> >> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real
> rather than
> > >> >> induced economic downturn.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case
> load down
> > >> >> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the
> things that
> > >> >> got it down in the first place.
> > >> 

Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Kaleb, I agree that this epidemic has been disruptive to the economy. But
the economic pain will be far greater if the epidemic continues to affect
the US disproportionately to other countries.

The article is good. But it makes no mention of CO2 or O2. This is because
all that gas exchange concern is complete crap designed to make people
afraid of masks. Don't listen to it. Something like a billion people are
wearing them and somehow surviving just fine. This is common sense. I wear
one all day every day. The article describes lack of evidence for mask
effectiveness for influenza, which believe it or not acts differently from
this virus because it is less often asymptomatic/minimally symptomatic and
it is not shed in high quantities early in the illness before severe
symptoms develop. I actually had this discussion with our head of hospital
epi at the beginning of the epidemic, and he came at me with the lack of
evidence for public wearing the mask. Not to repeat myself, but sometimes
you have to make policy on less than watertight evidence. And the evidence
for mask effectiveness is stronger for this disease, partly as a result of
the disease and partly as a result of us devoting more resources to
answering this question.

You have nothing to lose by wearing a mask, except the mask cost and slight
inconvenience of adjusting behavior.

Flying is a lot lower risk now that no one is doing it. Incidentally the
original airliners were 100% fresh cabin air from the vents, but my dad
told me yesterday that they were pulling too much power from the turbine
compressors so they reduced it to the current 50% back in the 60/70s. The
other problem is that the vents blow down and mix the warm air rising from
the humans below. That will require redesign of aircraft even though the
vent air is hepa  filtered. Problem is recirculation of the air in the
cabin; lots of it is not filtered at all.

You cannot just reject the curve numbers. Locking down definitely slowed
transmission in Los Angeles. Our curve flattened with lockdown, then
started rising again three weeks after reopening began, specifically 3
weeks after Memorial Day weekend. I agree lockdowns are unprecedented and
that there was therefore no evidence that they work, but consider there is
no evidence that parachutes save skydivers either. Kind of hard to find
controls for that study.

You are right that for a majority of people this is a mild illness. That
does not mean you will be in that majority, or people that you love, or
even people in your church if you go to one. We still do not understand all
the reasons for this. Certainly age, obesity and gender are risk factors.
But they do not explain the otherwise healthy 41 year olds being
hospitalized for 6 weeks. Not a majority, but it is happening. And we have
lots of elderly and diabetic people in the nation, and people on
immunosuppressive drugs for rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, organ
transplantattion etc. Kind of cynical to tell them good luck but not do
anything to help them reduce their risk of getting sick.

Controlling this thing is not a very big deal economically or personally.
NOT controlling it will be very costly to the economy over a long period of
time. Decide which version of america you want to live in for the next year
or two, and act accordingly. I would submit that hope is not a strategy,
and that the beatings the virus is giving us will continue until morale
improves.

PS I found a used 2.88 diff on ebay. There were two of them, one 400
dollars but it was already sent to the crusher, and one 499 a guy had in
huntington beach. Reinvent has one but they want the typical 700 dollar
fortune for it.

One can play the "Youth is on my side and too bad for you" game, but that
is sort of a bad attitude IMHO. Do unto others etc.

Karl




On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 11:27 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Lower o2 levels, higher co2 levels, mask catches all sorts of
> contamination that you constantly breath in when putting dirty masks back
> on. Here is an article I found from several years ago.
>
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868614/
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when
> venturing outside and mingling with other people.
> >
> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:57 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It
> has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common sense.
> If you want to wear a mask or never leave the house, fine. Otherwise there
> is so much misinformation about wearing masks or not, locking or not has
> done any good. The numbers are not accurate and can’t be trusted. One thing
> is certain the economy has been destroyed. Next week I will be flying again
> and I am not the least bit concerned.
> >>
> >> 

Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Yep, pretty soon maybe even a cold will kill you. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 8:52 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
>  I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of my immune system atrophying at 
> home, I mean there are still germs at home. Especially if I dig in the 
> compost or the garden (which is full of compost) a little...
> -Curt
> 
>On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 9:46:48 AM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
>> On Wed, July 8, 2020 9:29 am, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
>> I'm guessing that the people that
>> die are clean fanatics and haven't challenged their immune systems with
>> good old commonplace germs.
> 
> A valid point.
> I got one of my older friends, one who believes we need to stay at home
> and wait for a vaccine, quite angry by suggesting that after a couple
> months of following his suggestions my immune system would be severely
> atrophied.
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of my immune system atrophying at home, 
I mean there are still germs at home. Especially if I dig in the compost or the 
garden (which is full of compost) a little...
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 9:46:48 AM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 On Wed, July 8, 2020 9:29 am, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> I'm guessing that the people that
> die are clean fanatics and haven't challenged their immune systems with
> good old commonplace germs.

A valid point.
I got one of my older friends, one who believes we need to stay at home
and wait for a vaccine, quite angry by suggesting that after a couple
months of following his suggestions my immune system would be severely
atrophied.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Wed, July 8, 2020 9:29 am, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> I'm guessing that the people that
> die are clean fanatics and haven't challenged their immune systems with
> good old commonplace germs.

A valid point.
I got one of my older friends, one who believes we need to stay at home
and wait for a vaccine, quite angry by suggesting that after a couple
months of following his suggestions my immune system would be severely
atrophied.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I'd walk out on a Dr that was that level of dumb.
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 9:27:21 AM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Many or most people around here that are wearing masks have them around their 
chin. At my last Dr appointment even the Dr was doing that. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 8:12 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> So I'll ask one more time.  Where's the study?  Where's the science?  Sure,
> we all know that wearing a mask when working in a hospital setting is
> valid, but that is part of an ensemble of protective equipment in a
> controlled setting.  Sure, when one is sick, wearing a mask to catch the
> droplets when you cough or sneeze is valid.  No argument there.
> 
> It seems like the only thing that is driving the mask thing is fear.  Plain
> raw fear.  That and the desire to impose control on your fellow man.
> 
> For the record, I do wear a mask when I go into a store.  I notice a fair
> percentage of people here wear the mask below their nose, so only the mouth
> is covered,
> 
> Hand sanitizer and hand washing are far more effective, in my opinion.
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:02 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> EXACTLY 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 1:03 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
>>> wearing a mask increases MY risk...
>>> So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying
>> but
>>> you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> --
>> OK Don
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 100 years of practice isn't good enough for you?
Where is the study that says the opposite? The challenger must provide proof.
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 9:12:56 AM EDT, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 So I'll ask one more time.  Where's the study?  Where's the science?  Sure,
we all know that wearing a mask when working in a hospital setting is
valid, but that is part of an ensemble of protective equipment in a
controlled setting.  Sure, when one is sick, wearing a mask to catch the
droplets when you cough or sneeze is valid.  No argument there.

It seems like the only thing that is driving the mask thing is fear.  Plain
raw fear.  That and the desire to impose control on your fellow man.

For the record, I do wear a mask when I go into a store.  I notice a fair
percentage of people here wear the mask below their nose, so only the mouth
is covered,

Hand sanitizer and hand washing are far more effective, in my opinion.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:02 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> EXACTLY 
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 1:03 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >  Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
> > wearing a mask increases MY risk...
> > So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying
> but
> > you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
> > -Curt
> >
> > --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I've read that both ways. The truth is nobody knows, ask again next year...
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 8:32:40 AM EDT, tyee165 via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I am sure I have read that testing is showing that the antibodies produced by 
those who have had covid only last a few weeks so you lose immunity quickly and 
can get it again.Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
 Date: 2020-07-07  23:53  (GMT-06:00) To: 'Mercedes 
Discussion List'  Cc: Scott Ritchey 
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns 
actually worked is a world
  scandal Actually yes and no.  Yes for sick, old folks who are likely to die 
from this bug.  No for young heathy folks who are likely to have minor or no 
symptoms.  The correct strategy is for the young/healthy folks to become 
infected as fast as possible as long as hospitals can handle the more extreme 
cases.  Just my opinion.> -Original Message-> From:  Kaleb Striplin via 
Mercedes> > Some say yes. Some say no.> > Sent from my 
iPhone___http://www.okiebenz.comTo search 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 The problem is that a non-zero number of "young healthy folks" are dying right 
along with the old folks. So purposeful infection will kill off a number of 
otherwise useful, prime age people.
I'm not terribly worried about COVID and I expect that at some point I'll 
probably get it, but I'm not going out of my way to hurry into it.
In the aftermath it'll be very interesting to see why some young and otherwise 
healthy people die when some older, apparently compromised folks live through 
it. My guess, right now anyway, is one of over-cleaning. I'm guessing that the 
people that die are clean fanatics and haven't challenged their immune systems 
with good old commonplace germs.So in the meantime I'm inoculating myself by 
getting dirty. 2 days in a row I've marched up Priest Brook 
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Priest+Brook/@42.6769471,-72.1244889,14.29z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e1678cc12660b3:0x3d6bbf8bdd57026f!8m2!3d42.6907408!4d-72.1198057looking
 for trout. Its hell on my shins but 2 days ago I brought home a dandy brook 
trout. About 1 pound dressed, I coated it in olive oil and wrapped in tin foil, 
then tossed it on the grill for 6 minutes. It was real nice on crackers...
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 12:53:51 AM EDT, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Actually yes and no.  Yes for sick, old folks who are likely to die from this 
bug.  No for young heathy folks who are likely to have minor or no symptoms.  
The correct strategy is for the young/healthy folks to become infected as fast 
as possible as long as hospitals can handle the more extreme cases.  Just my 
opinion.

> -Original Message-
> From:  Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> 
> Some say yes. Some say no.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Many or most people around here that are wearing masks have them around their 
chin. At my last Dr appointment even the Dr was doing that. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 8:12 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> So I'll ask one more time.  Where's the study?  Where's the science?  Sure,
> we all know that wearing a mask when working in a hospital setting is
> valid, but that is part of an ensemble of protective equipment in a
> controlled setting.  Sure, when one is sick, wearing a mask to catch the
> droplets when you cough or sneeze is valid.  No argument there.
> 
> It seems like the only thing that is driving the mask thing is fear.  Plain
> raw fear.  That and the desire to impose control on your fellow man.
> 
> For the record, I do wear a mask when I go into a store.  I notice a fair
> percentage of people here wear the mask below their nose, so only the mouth
> is covered,
> 
> Hand sanitizer and hand washing are far more effective, in my opinion.
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:02 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> EXACTLY 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 1:03 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
>>> wearing a mask increases MY risk...
>>> So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying
>> but
>>> you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> --
>> OK Don
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

You don’t hear about this on the news. Actually last night I did. Fauci was 
saying don’t be fooled by the drop in the death count. It means nothing. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2020, at 12:17 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Even so, COVID deaths are dropping like a stone:  
> https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm
> 
> NY and NJ quarantines are pretty funny when you compare NY/NJ deaths to the 
> states they want to quarantine.
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
>> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2020 7:49 PM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world
>> scandal
>> 
>> Except the number of deaths is highly inflated. You get shot, tested 
>> positive for
>> covid and die, your death is reported as a covid death. Heart attack? Same
>> thing. This is the guidelines they have to follow from the cdc, or so has 
>> been
>> reported in the media.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Jul 7, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> A flu season that killed 150,000 people? Thats 5 times normal in 5 months.
>> Oh and its not done yet, flu season got over with, the US is losing 1/30th 
>> of a
>> flu season to COVID every day...
>>> 
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 6:22:37 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If we never heard a word out of the media about covid I suspect we
>>> would have just thought this was a bad cold and flu season.  In other
>>> words, normal common sense would be to be good with hand washing,
>>> covering your mouth when coughing, and stay home if you are sick.
>>> 
>>> On 7/7/2020 5:16 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
 Curt, can you cite any peer reviewed study that indicates how much the
>> risk is reduced by the general population wearing masks?  Sure, masks (and
>> gloves and gowns) all work in a hospital setting to provide a good risk
>> reduction for the imposed cost.  Don't forget the training for those workers.
>> Got it, that's fine, no argument.  I don't live in a hospital, don't work in 
>> one,
>> please don't cite a study about hospitals.
 
 Let's follow the science.  Where's the study?  "Experts say" doesn't cut it
>> anymore, the so-called experts contradict themselves, especially on this
>> question of masks.
 
 Jul 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes
>> :
 
> Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
>> wearing a mask increases MY risk...
> So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying
>> but you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:44:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via
> Mercedes
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 
 
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>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

So I'll ask one more time.  Where's the study?  Where's the science?  Sure,
we all know that wearing a mask when working in a hospital setting is
valid, but that is part of an ensemble of protective equipment in a
controlled setting.  Sure, when one is sick, wearing a mask to catch the
droplets when you cough or sneeze is valid.  No argument there.

It seems like the only thing that is driving the mask thing is fear.  Plain
raw fear.  That and the desire to impose control on your fellow man.

For the record, I do wear a mask when I go into a store.  I notice a fair
percentage of people here wear the mask below their nose, so only the mouth
is covered,

Hand sanitizer and hand washing are far more effective, in my opinion.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:02 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> EXACTLY 
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 1:03 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >  Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
> > wearing a mask increases MY risk...
> > So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying
> but
> > you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
> > -Curt
> >
> > --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Wed, July 8, 2020 8:31 am, tyee165 via Mercedes wrote:
> I am sure I have read that testing is showing that the antibodies
> produced by those who have had covid only last a few weeks so you lose
> immunity quickly and can get it again.

So, let's develop a vaccine, sell it for $1k per dose, and people can buy
it monthly. Yeah, that'll work.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I noticed this guy also has a Gulfstream V who’s transponder is blocked from 
all of the flight tracking systems. I wonder what he’s hiding?

-D

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:51 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> 
> Maybe this guy?
> 
> https://youtu.be/m2s0nB2VPvs 
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:38 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes > > wrote:
>> 
>> Didn't some medical expert say it would go away with hot weather?
>> I had high hopes for that happening, but alas, it hasn't happened yet.
>> 
>> Mitch.
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

I am sure I have read that testing is showing that the antibodies produced by 
those who have had covid only last a few weeks so you lose immunity quickly and 
can get it again.Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
 Date: 2020-07-07  23:53  (GMT-06:00) To: 'Mercedes 
Discussion List'  Cc: Scott Ritchey 
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns 
actually worked is a world
  scandal Actually yes and no.  Yes for sick, old folks who are likely to die 
from this bug.  No for young heathy folks who are likely to have minor or no 
symptoms.  The correct strategy is for the young/healthy folks to become 
infected as fast as possible as long as hospitals can handle the more extreme 
cases.  Just my opinion.> -Original Message-> From:  Kaleb Striplin via 
Mercedes> > Some say yes. Some say no.> > Sent from my 
iPhone___http://www.okiebenz.comTo search 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

Lies, damned lies, and statistics in that order.Who really knows what is truly 
happening?Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
 Date: 2020-07-08  00:16  (GMT-06:00) To: 'Mercedes 
Discussion List'  Cc: Scott Ritchey 
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns 
actually worked is a world
  scandal Even so, COVID deaths are dropping like a stone:  
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htmNY and NJ quarantines are 
pretty funny when you compare NY/NJ deaths to the states they want to 
quarantine.> -Original Message-> From: Mercedes 
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of> Kaleb Striplin via 
Mercedes> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2020 7:49 PM> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin > Subject: Re: 
[MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world> scandal> > 
Except the number of deaths is highly inflated. You get shot, tested positive 
for> covid and die, your death is reported as a covid death. Heart attack? 
Same> thing. This is the guidelines they have to follow from the cdc, or so has 
been> reported in the media.> > Sent from my iPhone> > > On Jul 7, 2020, at 
6:35 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:> >> > > > A flu season that 
killed 150,000 people? Thats 5 times normal in 5 months.> Oh and its not done 
yet, flu season got over with, the US is losing 1/30th of a> flu season to 
COVID every day...> >> > -Curt> >> > On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 6:22:37 PM EDT, 
Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes>  wrote:> >> >> > If we 
never heard a word out of the media about covid I suspect we> > would have just 
thought this was a bad cold and flu season.  In other> > words, normal common 
sense would be to be good with hand washing,> > covering your mouth when 
coughing, and stay home if you are sick.> >> > On 7/7/2020 5:16 PM, Max Dillon 
via Mercedes wrote:> > > Curt, can you cite any peer reviewed study that 
indicates how much the> risk is reduced by the general population wearing 
masks?  Sure, masks (and> gloves and gowns) all work in a hospital setting to 
provide a good risk> reduction for the imposed cost.  Don't forget the training 
for those workers.> Got it, that's fine, no argument.  I don't live in a 
hospital, don't work in one,> please don't cite a study about hospitals.> > >> 
> > Let's follow the science.  Where's the study?  "Experts say" doesn't cut 
it> anymore, the so-called experts contradict themselves, especially on this> 
question of masks.> > >> > > Jul 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes> 
:> > >> > >> Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a 
mask protects YOU. Your not> wearing a mask increases MY risk...> > >> So I'm 
polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying> but you can't 
be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.> > >> -Curt> > >>> > >> 
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:44:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via> > >> Mercedes> > 
> Max Dillon> > > Charleston SC> > >> > >> > > 
___> > > http://www.okiebenz.com> > >> > > 
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/> > >> > > To 
Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:> > > 
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com> >> > >> >> > 
___> > http://www.okiebenz.com> >> > To 
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change delivery options go to:> > 
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com> >> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Even so, COVID deaths are dropping like a stone:  
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

NY and NJ quarantines are pretty funny when you compare NY/NJ deaths to the 
states they want to quarantine.
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2020 7:49 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world
> scandal
> 
> Except the number of deaths is highly inflated. You get shot, tested positive 
> for
> covid and die, your death is reported as a covid death. Heart attack? Same
> thing. This is the guidelines they have to follow from the cdc, or so has been
> reported in the media.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > A flu season that killed 150,000 people? Thats 5 times normal in 5 months.
> Oh and its not done yet, flu season got over with, the US is losing 1/30th of 
> a
> flu season to COVID every day...
> >
> > -Curt
> >
> > On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 6:22:37 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> >
> >
> > If we never heard a word out of the media about covid I suspect we
> > would have just thought this was a bad cold and flu season.  In other
> > words, normal common sense would be to be good with hand washing,
> > covering your mouth when coughing, and stay home if you are sick.
> >
> > On 7/7/2020 5:16 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
> > > Curt, can you cite any peer reviewed study that indicates how much the
> risk is reduced by the general population wearing masks?  Sure, masks (and
> gloves and gowns) all work in a hospital setting to provide a good risk
> reduction for the imposed cost.  Don't forget the training for those workers.
> Got it, that's fine, no argument.  I don't live in a hospital, don't work in 
> one,
> please don't cite a study about hospitals.
> > >
> > > Let's follow the science.  Where's the study?  "Experts say" doesn't cut 
> > > it
> anymore, the so-called experts contradict themselves, especially on this
> question of masks.
> > >
> > > Jul 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> :
> > >
> > >> Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
> wearing a mask increases MY risk...
> > >> So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying
> but you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
> > >> -Curt
> > >>
> > >> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:44:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via
> > >> Mercedes
> > > Max Dillon
> > > Charleston SC
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> > >
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Actually yes and no.  Yes for sick, old folks who are likely to die from this 
bug.  No for young heathy folks who are likely to have minor or no symptoms.  
The correct strategy is for the young/healthy folks to become infected as fast 
as possible as long as hospitals can handle the more extreme cases.  Just my 
opinion.

> -Original Message-
> From:  Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> 
> Some say yes. Some say no.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Yes in the '80s HIV/AIDS was a death sentence.

Allan

Clay via Mercedes  writes:

> I had a professor back in 1980 who caught the AIDS.  He perished rather 
> quickly.  The intervening 40 years has not seen the advent of a viable 
> vaccine.  Maybe retrovirus is more complex than a normal virus.
>
>
> clay 
>
> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
>
>
>
>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 3:35 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> They never found a vaccine against the cold, which is also a coronavirus.
>

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Clay via Mercedes]

Surgeons would seem to be self selecting as for ability to tolerate extended 
periods of masking.  If you get woozy covering your air holes and pass out, 
maybe you become a doctor of feet or practice openly instead of wrapping 
bandana on your proboscis.

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jul 7, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Well the people who say the mask is to protect the wearer don't know what 
> they're talking about.
> Actually now that I think of it I don't actually know the answer to this, are 
> there surgeries where the person being operated on wears a mask? I'd think 
> that would interfere with the anesthesia.
> -Curt
> 
>On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 8:30:41 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
> Some say yes. Some say no. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:06 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> The mask does NOT protect the wearer, it protects those around him/her,
>> unless it's a properly fitted and worn N95 ...
>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 4:37 PM Clay via Mercedes 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://www.ktoo.org/2020/07/06/passenger-on-board-the-alaska-ferry-kennicott-tests-positive-for-covid-19/
>>> 
>>> This person wore a mask and ended up with WRD.  Came onto the ship testing
>>> negative.  Tested negative once more, and 8 days later had the plague.
>>> Mask did not help.
>>> 
>>> clay
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> OK Don
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Clay via Mercedes]

I had a professor back in 1980 who caught the AIDS.  He perished rather 
quickly.  The intervening 40 years has not seen the advent of a viable vaccine. 
 Maybe retrovirus is more complex than a normal virus.


clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jul 7, 2020, at 3:35 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> They never found a vaccine against the cold, which is also a coronavirus.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Well the people who say the mask is to protect the wearer don't know what 
they're talking about.
Actually now that I think of it I don't actually know the answer to this, are 
there surgeries where the person being operated on wears a mask? I'd think that 
would interfere with the anesthesia.
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 8:30:41 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Some say yes. Some say no. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:06 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> The mask does NOT protect the wearer, it protects those around him/her,
> unless it's a properly fitted and worn N95 ...
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 4:37 PM Clay via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.ktoo.org/2020/07/06/passenger-on-board-the-alaska-ferry-kennicott-tests-positive-for-covid-19/
>> 
>> This person wore a mask and ended up with WRD.  Came onto the ship testing
>> negative.  Tested negative once more, and 8 days later had the plague.
>> Mask did not help.
>> 
>> clay
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Some say yes. Some say no. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:06 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> The mask does NOT protect the wearer, it protects those around him/her,
> unless it's a properly fitted and worn N95 ...
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 4:37 PM Clay via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.ktoo.org/2020/07/06/passenger-on-board-the-alaska-ferry-kennicott-tests-positive-for-covid-19/
>> 
>> This person wore a mask and ended up with WRD.  Came onto the ship testing
>> negative.  Tested negative once more, and 8 days later had the plague.
>> Mask did not help.
>> 
>> clay
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I thought it would be an eye patch like a pirate. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 6:57 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> They already mandate that you wear pants in public - the president is
> already set - they can mandate you to wear whatever they want. Mickey Mouse
> ears will be next ...
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:33 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The thing about the government forcing you to wear a mask becomes a
>> slippery slope. Does this empower the government to control what you wear
>> at all times? Is the excuse of "Its for the public good" that strong?
>> -Curt
>> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[OK Don via Mercedes]

The mask does NOT protect the wearer, it protects those around him/her,
unless it's a properly fitted and worn N95 ...

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 4:37 PM Clay via Mercedes 
wrote:

>
> https://www.ktoo.org/2020/07/06/passenger-on-board-the-alaska-ferry-kennicott-tests-positive-for-covid-19/
>
> This person wore a mask and ended up with WRD.  Came onto the ship testing
> negative.  Tested negative once more, and 8 days later had the plague.
> Mask did not help.
>
> clay
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[OK Don via Mercedes]

EXACTLY 

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 1:03 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not
> wearing a mask increases MY risk...
> So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying but
> you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
> -Curt
>
> --
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[OK Don via Mercedes]

They already mandate that you wear pants in public - the president is
already set - they can mandate you to wear whatever they want. Mickey Mouse
ears will be next ...

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:33 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  The thing about the government forcing you to wear a mask becomes a
> slippery slope. Does this empower the government to control what you wear
> at all times? Is the excuse of "Its for the public good" that strong?
> -Curt
>
-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Maybe this guy?

https://youtu.be/m2s0nB2VPvs 

-D

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:38 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Didn't some medical expert say it would go away with hot weather?
> I had high hopes for that happening, but alas, it hasn't happened yet.
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Isn't smallpox nearly wiped out except for some backwater enclaves in places 
like Africa where the village elders refuse vaccination?
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 7:42:33 PM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 On Tue, July 7, 2020 7:35 pm, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> They never found a vaccine against the cold, which is also a coronavirus.

I'm not sure about that, but SARS and MERS are definitely coronavirii. And
look at how much money (and decades of time) went into AIDS vaccine
research (not corona, but it's a virus).

How many virii in human history have been essentially wiped out by
vaccine, besides poliomyelitis?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Except the number of deaths is highly inflated. You get shot, tested positive 
for covid and die, your death is reported as a covid death. Heart attack? Same 
thing. This is the guidelines they have to follow from the cdc, or so has been 
reported in the media. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> A flu season that killed 150,000 people? Thats 5 times normal in 5 months. Oh 
> and its not done yet, flu season got over with, the US is losing 1/30th of a 
> flu season to COVID every day...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 6:22:37 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> If we never heard a word out of the media about covid I suspect we would 
> have just thought this was a bad cold and flu season.  In other words, 
> normal common sense would be to be good with hand washing, covering your 
> mouth when coughing, and stay home if you are sick.
> 
> On 7/7/2020 5:16 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
> > Curt, can you cite any peer reviewed study that indicates how much the risk 
> > is reduced by the general population wearing masks?  Sure, masks (and 
> > gloves and gowns) all work in a hospital setting to provide a good risk 
> > reduction for the imposed cost.  Don't forget the training for those 
> > workers.  Got it, that's fine, no argument.  I don't live in a hospital, 
> > don't work in one, please don't cite a study about hospitals.
> >
> > Let's follow the science.  Where's the study?  "Experts say" doesn't cut it 
> > anymore, the so-called experts contradict themselves, especially on this 
> > question of masks.
> >
> > Jul 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes :
> >
> >> Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not 
> >> wearing a mask increases MY risk...
> >> So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying but 
> >> you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
> >> -Curt
> >>
> >> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:44:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> > Max Dillon
> > Charleston SC
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
> >
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Thats exactly the problem today, the media is willing to say anything "Smokers 
all die" "Smokers less likely to die" this transmits, this doesn't.
Then the latest "cure of the week". Its all just fluff to fill the 24 hour news 
cycle. The best thing you can do is turn off the TV. I allow myself no more 
than an hour a day which I mostly use to check yesterday's stats.
I do kind of wonder if the falling death rate is maybe because the people most 
likely to die have already died. Is it maybe better in the long run to have had 
a higher infection rate early on? Certainly all of the north east has declining 
infection rates even as reopening progresses. Maybe its our slower rate of 
reopening and people being more careful after high infection rates early on. It 
doesn't seem like all that many people here are wearing masks though...
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 6:39:27 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Watching the news they say a new study says non symptomatic people are 
responsible for half of the cases. I saw another report the other day that says 
non symptomatic people don’t spread it nearly as much as they previously 
though. Which is it?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 5:33 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Stay home if you are sick is the BIG one. Especially if recent reports
> that there are virtually no transmissions from asymptomatic individuals
> are true.
> 
> If every nonfamily transmission is from some jerk out and about while
> knowingly suffering from it (like a few AIDS patients who deliberately
> sought casual unprotected sex), what I have to say about the jerks is
> unprintable.
> 
> Mitch.
> 
>> On Tue, July 7, 2020 6:22 pm, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> If we never heard a word out of the media about covid I suspect we would
>> have just thought this was a bad cold and flu season. In other words,
>> normal common sense would be to be good with hand washing, covering your
>> mouth when coughing, and stay home if you are sick.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Tue, July 7, 2020 7:35 pm, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> They never found a vaccine against the cold, which is also a coronavirus.

I'm not sure about that, but SARS and MERS are definitely coronavirii. And
look at how much money (and decades of time) went into AIDS vaccine
research (not corona, but it's a virus).

How many virii in human history have been essentially wiped out by
vaccine, besides poliomyelitis?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Tue, July 7, 2020 7:35 pm, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> A flu season that killed 150,000 people? Thats 5 times normal in 5
> months. Oh and its not done yet, flu season got over with, the US is
> losing 1/30th of a flu season to COVID every day... -Curt

Didn't some medical expert say it would go away with hot weather?
I had high hopes for that happening, but alas, it hasn't happened yet.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

They never found a vaccine against the cold, which is also a coronavirus. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 6:25 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
>  I find it interesting how people have latched on to "We'll have a vaccine!" 
> which the media has kind of propagated. In the real world the fastest a 
> vaccine has ever been developed is 4 years. 
> https://discoveries.childrenshospital.org/covid-19-vaccine/
> I'm thinking if we get a vaccine in 10 years we'll be doing well but boy when 
> you tell people that all of a sudden they turn vicious. 
> 
> -Curt
> 
>On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 5:20:57 PM EDT, Clay via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
> Mega Deaths are a sure way to instill herd immunity.  Get enough people 
> sporting anti-bodies and things will slow down.  All the current protocol 
> does is make the plague languish for months or years creating poverty and 
> homeless population growth which adds to human suffering and disease.
> 
> 
> clay 
> 
> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany, Greece, 
>> Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit, but far 
>> less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than induced 
>> economic downturn.
>> 
>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down to 
>> manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that got 
>> it down in the first place.
>> 
>> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation spots 
>> recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to assume 
>> vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there involves 
>> consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.  Unfortunately, for 
>> those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for going.
>> 
>> The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no treatments, 
>> no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it like any disease 
>> outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the 1940's.  Quarantines, 
>> social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty well in 1918 too) and 
>> stay at home!
>> 
>> We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before the 
>> unwashed masses figure it out.
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 A flu season that killed 150,000 people? Thats 5 times normal in 5 months. Oh 
and its not done yet, flu season got over with, the US is losing 1/30th of a 
flu season to COVID every day...
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 6:22:37 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 If we never heard a word out of the media about covid I suspect we would 
have just thought this was a bad cold and flu season.  In other words, 
normal common sense would be to be good with hand washing, covering your 
mouth when coughing, and stay home if you are sick.

On 7/7/2020 5:16 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
> Curt, can you cite any peer reviewed study that indicates how much the risk 
> is reduced by the general population wearing masks?  Sure, masks (and gloves 
> and gowns) all work in a hospital setting to provide a good risk reduction 
> for the imposed cost.  Don't forget the training for those workers.  Got it, 
> that's fine, no argument.  I don't live in a hospital, don't work in one, 
> please don't cite a study about hospitals.
>
> Let's follow the science.  Where's the study?  "Experts say" doesn't cut it 
> anymore, the so-called experts contradict themselves, especially on this 
> question of masks.
>
> Jul 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes :
>
>> Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not wearing 
>> a mask increases MY risk...
>> So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying but 
>> you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
>> -Curt
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:44:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Agreed.
Destroy the economy until a vaccine is available (I personally know those
who hold this viewpoint, most of them retired and think it doesn't affect
them) is not a viable plan.

Mitch.

On Tue, July 7, 2020 7:24 pm, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> I find it interesting how people have latched on to "We'll have a
> vaccine!" which the media has kind of propagated. In the real world the
> fastest a vaccine has ever been developed is 4 years.
> https://discoveries.childrenshospital.org/covid-19-vaccine/
> I'm thinking if we get a vaccine in 10 years we'll be doing well but boy
> when you tell people that all of a sudden they turn vicious.
>


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 You're the one saying masks aren't helpful, I believe the accuser is required 
to prove his case. Again, we can prove that masks work to cut down on 
transmission (not reception) in the surgical ward therefore we know masks are 
effective.Is your whole argument that people are too stupid to use masks 
correctly and gain maximum benefit, therefore there is no benefit?
In the end masks are a minor thing to ask people to do, the folks in 1918 could 
wear them, what makes us so different today?
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 6:17:07 PM EDT, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Curt, can you cite any peer reviewed study that indicates how much the risk is 
reduced by the general population wearing masks?  Sure, masks (and gloves and 
gowns) all work in a hospital setting to provide a good risk reduction for the 
imposed cost.  Don't forget the training for those workers.  Got it, that's 
fine, no argument.  I don't live in a hospital, don't work in one, please don't 
cite a study about hospitals.

Let's follow the science.  Where's the study?  "Experts say" doesn't cut it 
anymore, the so-called experts contradict themselves, especially on this 
question of masks.

Jul 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes :

> Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not wearing 
> a mask increases MY risk...
> So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying but 
> you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
> -Curt
>
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:44:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes

Max Dillon
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I find it interesting how people have latched on to "We'll have a vaccine!" 
which the media has kind of propagated. In the real world the fastest a vaccine 
has ever been developed is 4 years. 
https://discoveries.childrenshospital.org/covid-19-vaccine/
I'm thinking if we get a vaccine in 10 years we'll be doing well but boy when 
you tell people that all of a sudden they turn vicious. 

-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 5:20:57 PM EDT, Clay via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Mega Deaths are a sure way to instill herd immunity.  Get enough people 
sporting anti-bodies and things will slow down.  All the current protocol does 
is make the plague languish for months or years creating poverty and homeless 
population growth which adds to human suffering and disease.


clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany, Greece, 
> Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit, but far 
> less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than induced 
> economic downturn.
> 
> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down to 
> manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that got 
> it down in the first place.
> 
> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation spots 
> recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to assume 
> vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there involves 
> consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.  Unfortunately, for 
> those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for going.
> 
> The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no treatments, 
> no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it like any disease 
> outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the 1940's.  Quarantines, 
> social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty well in 1918 too) and stay 
> at home!
> 
> We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before the 
> unwashed masses figure it out.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Watching the news they say a new study says non symptomatic people are 
responsible for half of the cases. I saw another report the other day that says 
non symptomatic people don’t spread it nearly as much as they previously 
though. Which is it?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 5:33 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Stay home if you are sick is the BIG one. Especially if recent reports
> that there are virtually no transmissions from asymptomatic individuals
> are true.
> 
> If every nonfamily transmission is from some jerk out and about while
> knowingly suffering from it (like a few AIDS patients who deliberately
> sought casual unprotected sex), what I have to say about the jerks is
> unprintable.
> 
> Mitch.
> 
>> On Tue, July 7, 2020 6:22 pm, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> If we never heard a word out of the media about covid I suspect we would
>> have just thought this was a bad cold and flu season. In other words,
>> normal common sense would be to be good with hand washing, covering your
>> mouth when coughing, and stay home if you are sick.
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Stay home if you are sick is the BIG one. Especially if recent reports
that there are virtually no transmissions from asymptomatic individuals
are true.

If every nonfamily transmission is from some jerk out and about while
knowingly suffering from it (like a few AIDS patients who deliberately
sought casual unprotected sex), what I have to say about the jerks is
unprintable.

Mitch.

On Tue, July 7, 2020 6:22 pm, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> If we never heard a word out of the media about covid I suspect we would
> have just thought this was a bad cold and flu season. In other words,
> normal common sense would be to be good with hand washing, covering your
> mouth when coughing, and stay home if you are sick.



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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

If we never heard a word out of the media about covid I suspect we would 
have just thought this was a bad cold and flu season.  In other words, 
normal common sense would be to be good with hand washing, covering your 
mouth when coughing, and stay home if you are sick.


On 7/7/2020 5:16 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

Curt, can you cite any peer reviewed study that indicates how much the risk is 
reduced by the general population wearing masks?  Sure, masks (and gloves and 
gowns) all work in a hospital setting to provide a good risk reduction for the 
imposed cost.  Don't forget the training for those workers.  Got it, that's 
fine, no argument.  I don't live in a hospital, don't work in one, please don't 
cite a study about hospitals.

Let's follow the science.  Where's the study?  "Experts say" doesn't cut it 
anymore, the so-called experts contradict themselves, especially on this question of 
masks.

Jul 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes :


Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not wearing a 
mask increases MY risk...
So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying but you 
can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:44:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes

Max Dillon
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Curt, can you cite any peer reviewed study that indicates how much the risk is 
reduced by the general population wearing masks?  Sure, masks (and gloves and 
gowns) all work in a hospital setting to provide a good risk reduction for the 
imposed cost.  Don't forget the training for those workers.  Got it, that's 
fine, no argument.  I don't live in a hospital, don't work in one, please don't 
cite a study about hospitals.

Let's follow the science.  Where's the study?  "Experts say" doesn't cut it 
anymore, the so-called experts contradict themselves, especially on this 
question of masks.

Jul 7, 2020 2:03:18 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes :

> Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not wearing 
> a mask increases MY risk...
> So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying but 
> you can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
> -Curt
>
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:44:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes

Max Dillon
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Probably one of those infamous and highly regrettable false negative test
results.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 5:37 PM Clay via Mercedes 
wrote:

>
> https://www.ktoo.org/2020/07/06/passenger-on-board-the-alaska-ferry-kennicott-tests-positive-for-covid-19/
>
> This person wore a mask and ended up with WRD.  Came onto the ship testing
> negative.  Tested negative once more, and 8 days later had the plague.
> Mask did not help.
>
> clay
>
> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
>
>
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:52 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > How many people did not get the virus due to wearing a mask? What about
> the number of people who did get the virus while wearing a mask? Has
> anybody heard numbers about this?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Clay via Mercedes]

https://www.ktoo.org/2020/07/06/passenger-on-board-the-alaska-ferry-kennicott-tests-positive-for-covid-19/

This person wore a mask and ended up with WRD.  Came onto the ship testing 
negative.  Tested negative once more, and 8 days later had the plague.  Mask 
did not help.

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:52 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> How many people did not get the virus due to wearing a mask? What about the 
> number of people who did get the virus while wearing a mask? Has anybody 
> heard numbers about this?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Clay via Mercedes]

I entered a Wallyworld this morning.  Second time in my life.  We were looking 
for a wifi adapter for #2 boy’s homebrew computer.  The stench through the mask 
I was forced to wear to enter was indicative of bad things.  The last time I 
encountered this particular reek it indicated a severe gastric infection.  

The dearth of products on store shelves (we went to all the local shoppes 
purveying computer parts) signals to me that brick and mortar retail is not 
long for this world.  


clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jul 7, 2020, at 8:24 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I do not wear masks unless going somewhere that requires it. There is not 
> proof they work and too much evidence they make things worse. That being said 
> I have spent a couple of days at an amusement park and a couple of days at a 
> water park last month. Probably going to go back again this weekend. I am not 
> worried. If I get it I get it. I don’t want to get the cold or flu either but 
> I don’t avoid life to try and not catch those either. This covid is just a 
> little bit strong strain of the flu. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> That being the case -  how much risk are you willing to take?
>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming 
>>> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they 
>>> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we 
>>> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many people 
>>> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany, Greece, 
 Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit, but far 
 less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than induced 
 economic downturn.
 
 The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down 
 to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that 
 got it down in the first place.
 
 I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation spots 
 recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to 
 assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there 
 involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.  
 Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for 
 going.
 
 The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no 
 treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it 
 like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the 
 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty 
 well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
 
 We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before the 
 unwashed masses figure it out.
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>>> 
>>> 
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clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.




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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Clay via Mercedes]

And now they are going to spread the Original Version Plague!  Yay! Bubonic 
Plague!  Well, that and the new swine plague that is smoldering.


clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jul 7, 2020, at 8:15 AM, g2mann2 via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> China is holding a big celebration this week... They finally manufactured
> something that works longer than 30 days...
> Too harsh?


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Clay via Mercedes]

Mega Deaths are a sure way to instill herd immunity.  Get enough people 
sporting anti-bodies and things will slow down.  All the current protocol does 
is make the plague languish for months or years creating poverty and homeless 
population growth which adds to human suffering and disease.


clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany, Greece, 
> Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit, but far 
> less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than induced 
> economic downturn.
> 
> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down to 
> manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that got 
> it down in the first place.
> 
> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation spots 
> recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to assume 
> vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there involves 
> consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.  Unfortunately, for 
> those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for going.
> 
> The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no treatments, 
> no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it like any disease 
> outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the 1940's.  Quarantines, 
> social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty well in 1918 too) and stay 
> at home!
> 
> We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before the 
> unwashed masses figure it out.
> ___
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> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Says what? That their death rate is lower or that they didn't have a minimal 
lockdown?
If you want to debate you need to express complete thoughts, its tough being on 
the other side when I have to finish your thoughts for you...
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 2:09:16 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 A friend’s sister lives there and says the opposite. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 1:04 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
>  Lets add Sweden into the mix, minimal lockdown, much higher infection and 
> death rate. A death rate even higher than ours in fact...
> -Curt
> 
>    On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:54:21 PM EDT, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
> wrote:  
> 
> By that logic, we need to either (a) close down our borders and pretend like 
> we are an island or (b) institute a strong authoritarian central government 
> and eliminate all liberty (china) or (c) look at one outlier, Germany, and 
> pretend like all those other countries and US states that didn't lock down, 
> pretend they don't exist.  They don't count because Germany.
> 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> 
> Jul 7, 2020 11:26:12 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> :
> 
>> Except for New Zealand and Iceland, which were largely spared.  Also
>> Germany.  The problem is that people act like idiots once restrictions are
>> loosened.
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 6:25 PM Craig via Mercedes 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/28/lack-evidence-lockdowns-actually-worked-world-scandal/
>>> 
>>> There is still not a shred of real proof that the planet's reckless
>>> stay-at-home experiment made any difference
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

A friend’s sister lives there and says the opposite. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 1:04 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
>  Lets add Sweden into the mix, minimal lockdown, much higher infection and 
> death rate. A death rate even higher than ours in fact...
> -Curt
> 
>On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:54:21 PM EDT, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
> By that logic, we need to either (a) close down our borders and pretend like 
> we are an island or (b) institute a strong authoritarian central government 
> and eliminate all liberty (china) or (c) look at one outlier, Germany, and 
> pretend like all those other countries and US states that didn't lock down, 
> pretend they don't exist.  They don't count because Germany.
> 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> 
> Jul 7, 2020 11:26:12 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> :
> 
>> Except for New Zealand and Iceland, which were largely spared.  Also
>> Germany.  The problem is that people act like idiots once restrictions are
>> loosened.
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 6:25 PM Craig via Mercedes 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/28/lack-evidence-lockdowns-actually-worked-world-scandal/
>>> 
>>> There is still not a shred of real proof that the planet's reckless
>>> stay-at-home experiment made any difference
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Michigan is absolutely insane, ban gardening and boats that have motors.I 
still haven't figured out what banning gardening was supposed to do. I've been 
told that banning boats with motors was going to keep people from getting gas 
for their boats. Ignoring all the people getting gas for their cars.
Of course a lot of this is so governors can be seen as "doing something" which 
is supposed to be better than nothing but usually isn't...
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:57:17 PM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 On Tue, July 7, 2020 1:37 pm, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> I am still trying to figure out how a mayor of a town or a governor can
> say masks are required and fine people for it. I would think laws would
> have to be passed thru the proper channels. I do not see how they can
> require certain business to close down without said laws. It’s all a
> mystery to me.

In some places (hello Michigan) the governor is given certain emergency
powers for 4 weeks or 30 days. Then when the governor grants themselves
the power to run the state as a dictatorship for more than a month, the
courts get involved.

I doubt many (any>) of the mayors imposing executive orders upon those not
on the city payroll actually have the power to do so.
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Tue, July 7, 2020 1:46 pm, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> If that's true why don't surgeons drop in their tracks?

You are countering linked info from the NIH with a straw man deflection.
Read the info Kaleb linked and post a meaningful rebuttal if you want to
go there.

Lower your O2 levels from 98 to 96 percent, and you won't even notice it.
That doesn't mean Craig and Kaleb were wrong about the O2 level going
down.

Lowering your O2 levels won't drop you in your tracks, unless your O2
levels were already as marginal as my father's routinely are. That does
not mean the mask didn't lower your O2 levels, it just means you're
healthy.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Lets add Sweden into the mix, minimal lockdown, much higher infection and 
death rate. A death rate even higher than ours in fact...
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:54:21 PM EDT, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 By that logic, we need to either (a) close down our borders and pretend like 
we are an island or (b) institute a strong authoritarian central government and 
eliminate all liberty (china) or (c) look at one outlier, Germany, and pretend 
like all those other countries and US states that didn't lock down, pretend 
they don't exist.  They don't count because Germany.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

Jul 7, 2020 11:26:12 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes :

> Except for New Zealand and Iceland, which were largely spared.  Also
> Germany.  The problem is that people act like idiots once restrictions are
> loosened.
> 
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 6:25 PM Craig via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/28/lack-evidence-lockdowns-actually-worked-world-scandal/
>> 
>> There is still not a shred of real proof that the planet's reckless
>> stay-at-home experiment made any difference
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Yeahbut the problem is that my wearing a mask protects YOU. Your not wearing a 
mask increases MY risk...
So I'm polite enough to protect you from the germs I might be carrying but you 
can't be bothered to do the same. Thats brotherhood for you.
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:44:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Then by all means wear a mask. That is the beauty of this country. If it makes 
you feel better, wear it. Those that do not want to wear a mask, don’t. Pretty 
simple. If you are scared of all the people not wearing a mask, wear 2 masks or 
stay at home. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> That article sucks, as it its poorly written without a clear reason to exist.
> 
> What it says, if you read it a couple times and dig through all the extra 
> words, is that wearing a mask when there isn't a pandemic scares people. If 
> you dig around a bit you find "concluded that the surgical mask was 
> noninferior to the N95 mask in terms of influenza transmission rates among 
> health care workers."
> 
> Which says, straight up, that a mask reduces transmission rates.
> 
> The O2/CO2 levels debate is just people spewing nonsense due to not wanting 
> to wear a mask, its been dis-proven time and time again. You can find plenty 
> of evidence of people going for a run with a mask on and not having lowered 
> O2 or elevated CO2. To say otherwise ignores a growing mountain of evidence.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:26:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Lower o2 levels, higher co2 levels, mask catches all sorts of contamination 
> that you constantly breath in when putting dirty masks back on. Here is an 
> article I found from several years ago.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868614/
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when venturing 
> > outside and mingling with other people.
> > 
> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:57 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> >>  wrote:
> >> The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It has 
> >> nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common sense. If 
> >> you want to wear a mask or never leave the house, fine. Otherwise there is 
> >> so much misinformation about wearing masks or not, locking or not has done 
> >> any good. The numbers are not accurate and can’t be trusted. One thing is 
> >> certain the economy has been destroyed. Next week I will be flying again 
> >> and I am not the least bit concerned. 
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
> >> >  wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our numbers
> >> > and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
> >> > successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
> >> > political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all need to
> >> > change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
> >> > recommendations.
> >> > 
> >> > If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around other
> >> > people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and make 
> >> > this
> >> > statement.
> >> > 
> >> > I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and discuss... you
> >> > guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong political
> >> > bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact that this
> >> > is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and avoid
> >> > others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> >> 
> >> >> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
> >> >> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as 
> >> >> they
> >> >> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because 
> >> >> we
> >> >> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many 
> >> >> people
> >> >> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >> 
> >> >>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> >> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
> >> >> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic 
> >> >> hit,
> >> >> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
> >> >> induced economic downturn.
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load 
> >> >>> down
> >> >> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things 
> >> 

Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Tue, July 7, 2020 1:37 pm, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> I am still trying to figure out how a mayor of a town or a governor can
> say masks are required and fine people for it. I would think laws would
> have to be passed thru the proper channels. I do not see how they can
> require certain business to close down without said laws. It’s all a
> mystery to me.

In some places (hello Michigan) the governor is given certain emergency
powers for 4 weeks or 30 days. Then when the governor grants themselves
the power to run the state as a dictatorship for more than a month, the
courts get involved.

I doubt many (any>) of the mayors imposing executive orders upon those not
on the city payroll actually have the power to do so.
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

By that logic, we need to either (a) close down our borders and pretend like we 
are an island or (b) institute a strong authoritarian central government and 
eliminate all liberty (china) or (c) look at one outlier, Germany, and pretend 
like all those other countries and US states that didn't lock down, pretend 
they don't exist.  They don't count because Germany.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

Jul 7, 2020 11:26:12 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes :

> Except for New Zealand and Iceland, which were largely spared.  Also
> Germany.  The problem is that people act like idiots once restrictions are
> loosened.
> 
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 6:25 PM Craig via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
>> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/28/lack-evidence-lockdowns-actually-worked-world-scandal/
>> 
>> There is still not a shred of real proof that the planet's reckless
>> stay-at-home experiment made any difference
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

How many people did not get the virus due to wearing a mask? What about the 
number of people who did get the virus while wearing a mask? Has anybody heard 
numbers about this?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
>  If that's true why don't surgeons drop in their tracks? How can they go 
> through complex, long operations all while wearing a mask?
> I find the dual arguments particularly funny:#1. The mask isn't fine enough 
> and can't possibly be doing any goodand#2. The mask blocks so much air that 
> its killing you with CO2.
> O2/CO2 is much smaller than a virus, if a virus can pass through the mask 
> easily then air ought to also...
> -Curt
> 
>On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:38:40 PM EDT, Craig via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
>> On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 13:17:51 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when
>> venturing outside and mingling with other people.
> 
> Masks cause the level of CO2 you breathe to increase, which causes the
> level of CO2 in your blood to increase, which causes your immune system
> activity to decrease.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 If that's true why don't surgeons drop in their tracks? How can they go 
through complex, long operations all while wearing a mask?
I find the dual arguments particularly funny:#1. The mask isn't fine enough and 
can't possibly be doing any goodand#2. The mask blocks so much air that its 
killing you with CO2.
O2/CO2 is much smaller than a virus, if a virus can pass through the mask 
easily then air ought to also...
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:38:40 PM EDT, Craig via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 13:17:51 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when
> venturing outside and mingling with other people.

Masks cause the level of CO2 you breathe to increase, which causes the
level of CO2 in your blood to increase, which causes your immune system
activity to decrease.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Then by all means wear a mask. That is the beauty of this country. If it makes 
you feel better, wear it. Those that do not want to wear a mask, don’t. Pretty 
simple. If you are scared of all the people not wearing a mask, wear 2 masks or 
stay at home. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> That article sucks, as it its poorly written without a clear reason to exist.
> 
> What it says, if you read it a couple times and dig through all the extra 
> words, is that wearing a mask when there isn't a pandemic scares people. If 
> you dig around a bit you find "concluded that the surgical mask was 
> noninferior to the N95 mask in terms of influenza transmission rates among 
> health care workers."
> 
> Which says, straight up, that a mask reduces transmission rates.
> 
> The O2/CO2 levels debate is just people spewing nonsense due to not wanting 
> to wear a mask, its been dis-proven time and time again. You can find plenty 
> of evidence of people going for a run with a mask on and not having lowered 
> O2 or elevated CO2. To say otherwise ignores a growing mountain of evidence.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:26:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Lower o2 levels, higher co2 levels, mask catches all sorts of contamination 
> that you constantly breath in when putting dirty masks back on. Here is an 
> article I found from several years ago.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868614/
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when venturing 
> > outside and mingling with other people.
> > 
> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:57 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> >>  wrote:
> >> The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It has 
> >> nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common sense. If 
> >> you want to wear a mask or never leave the house, fine. Otherwise there is 
> >> so much misinformation about wearing masks or not, locking or not has done 
> >> any good. The numbers are not accurate and can’t be trusted. One thing is 
> >> certain the economy has been destroyed. Next week I will be flying again 
> >> and I am not the least bit concerned. 
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
> >> >  wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our numbers
> >> > and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
> >> > successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
> >> > political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all need to
> >> > change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
> >> > recommendations.
> >> > 
> >> > If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around other
> >> > people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and make 
> >> > this
> >> > statement.
> >> > 
> >> > I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and discuss... you
> >> > guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong political
> >> > bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact that this
> >> > is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and avoid
> >> > others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> >> 
> >> >> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
> >> >> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as 
> >> >> they
> >> >> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because 
> >> >> we
> >> >> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many 
> >> >> people
> >> >> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >> 
> >> >>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> >> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
> >> >> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic 
> >> >> hit,
> >> >> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
> >> >> induced economic downturn.
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load 
> >> >>> down
> >> >> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things 
> >> >> that
> >> >> got it down in the first place.
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
> >> >> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO 
> >> >> reason to
> >> >> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going 
> >> >> there
> >> >> involves 

Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

When we were at Silver Dollar City a few weeks ago on opening day they require 
mask. Riding rides with a mask on I started getting dizzy, which I never do. I 
can only attribute that to mask wearing. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:38 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 13:17:51 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
>> I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when
>> venturing outside and mingling with other people.
> 
> Masks cause the level of CO2 you breathe to increase, which causes the
> level of CO2 in your blood to increase, which causes your immune system
> activity to decrease.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

No, it means people die in a car wreck but happened to test positive for covid 
and their death is labeled covid. The news reports ever minute of every day 
continue to report these large numbers of new cases daily. They fail to report 
or emphasize the large number of recoveries.  What the reason for all this I 
have no clue. In my little county they posted something on Facebook about how 
we are now up to 39 covid cases in the county and it is out of control. In 
reality there is currently currently 1 active case out of 11k residence. They 
fail to mention the rest have recovered. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:34 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well now hold on, if "common sense" goes against the numbers because they 
> "cannot be trusted" doesn't that just mean "I don't like what the numbers say 
> so its clearly against common sense"?
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 12:57:46 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It has 
> nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common sense. If you 
> want to wear a mask or never leave the house, fine. Otherwise there is so 
> much misinformation about wearing masks or not, locking or not has done any 
> good. The numbers are not accurate and can’t be trusted. One thing is certain 
> the economy has been destroyed. Next week I will be flying again and I am not 
> the least bit concerned. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our numbers
> > and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
> > successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
> > political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all need to
> > change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
> > recommendations.
> > 
> > If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around other
> > people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and make this
> > statement.
> > 
> > I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and discuss... you
> > guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong political
> > bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact that this
> > is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and avoid
> > others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
> >> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they
> >> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we
> >> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many people
> >> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
> >> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit,
> >> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
> >> induced economic downturn.
> >>> 
> >>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down
> >> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that
> >> got it down in the first place.
> >>> 
> >>> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
> >> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to
> >> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there
> >> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.
> >> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for
> >> going.
> >>> 
> >>> The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no
> >> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it
> >> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the
> >> 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty
> >> well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
> >>> 
> >>> We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before
> >> the unwashed masses figure it out.
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>> 
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>> 
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> 
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >> 
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options 

Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 That article sucks, as it its poorly written without a clear reason to exist.
What it says, if you read it a couple times and dig through all the extra 
words, is that wearing a mask when there isn't a pandemic scares people. If you 
dig around a bit you find "concluded that the surgical mask was noninferior to 
the N95 mask in terms of influenza transmission rates among health care 
workers."
Which says, straight up, that a mask reduces transmission rates.
The O2/CO2 levels debate is just people spewing nonsense due to not wanting to 
wear a mask, its been dis-proven time and time again. You can find plenty of 
evidence of people going for a run with a mask on and not having lowered O2 or 
elevated CO2. To say otherwise ignores a growing mountain of evidence.
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 1:26:59 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Lower o2 levels, higher co2 levels, mask catches all sorts of contamination 
that you constantly breath in when putting dirty masks back on. Here is an 
article I found from several years ago.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868614/

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> 
> I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when venturing 
> outside and mingling with other people.
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:57 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It has 
>> nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common sense. If 
>> you want to wear a mask or never leave the house, fine. Otherwise there is 
>> so much misinformation about wearing masks or not, locking or not has done 
>> any good. The numbers are not accurate and can’t be trusted. One thing is 
>> certain the economy has been destroyed. Next week I will be flying again and 
>> I am not the least bit concerned. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our numbers
>> > and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
>> > successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
>> > political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all need to
>> > change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
>> > recommendations.
>> > 
>> > If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around other
>> > people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and make this
>> > statement.
>> > 
>> > I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and discuss... you
>> > guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong political
>> > bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact that this
>> > is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and avoid
>> > others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
>> >> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they
>> >> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we
>> >> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many 
>> >> people
>> >> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
>> >> 
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> 
>> >>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
>> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
>> >> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit,
>> >> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
>> >> induced economic downturn.
>> >>> 
>> >>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down
>> >> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that
>> >> got it down in the first place.
>> >>> 
>> >>> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
>> >> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason 
>> >> to
>> >> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there
>> >> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.
>> >> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for
>> >> going.
>> >>> 
>> >>> The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no
>> >> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it
>> >> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the
>> >> 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty
>> >> well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
>> >>> 
>> >>> We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before
>> >> the unwashed 

Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 13:17:51 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when
> venturing outside and mingling with other people.

Masks cause the level of CO2 you breathe to increase, which causes the
level of CO2 in your blood to increase, which causes your immune system
activity to decrease.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I am still trying to figure out how a mayor of a town or a governor can say 
masks are required and fine people for it. I would think laws would have to be 
passed thru the proper channels. I do not see how they can require certain 
business to close down without said laws. It’s all a mystery to me. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:33 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
>  The thing about the government forcing you to wear a mask becomes a 
> slippery slope. Does this empower the government to control what you wear at 
> all times? Is the excuse of "Its for the public good" that strong?
> -Curt
> 
>On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 12:51:54 PM EDT, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
> We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our numbers
> and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
> successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
> political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all need to
> change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
> recommendations.
> 
> If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around other
> people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and make this
> statement.
> 
> I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and discuss... you
> guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong political
> bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact that this
> is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and avoid
> others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
>> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they
>> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we
>> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many people
>> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
>> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit,
>> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
>> induced economic downturn.
>>> 
>>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down
>> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that
>> got it down in the first place.
>>> 
>>> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
>> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to
>> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there
>> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.
>> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for
>> going.
>>> 
>>> The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no
>> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it
>> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the
>> 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty
>> well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
>>> 
>>> We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before
>> the unwashed masses figure it out.
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> --
> Jaime Kopchinski
> http://www.jaimekop.com/
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Pick your news source pick your bias.  There truth is out there, have to be 
willing to work for it.

Risk is part of life, as is death.

Death rate from Wuhan Red Death is still declining, no spike there.

"Give me liberty, or give me COVID-19!". Now where is that dose of 
hydroxochloroquine?

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

Jul 7, 2020 12:51:54 PM Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes :

> We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our numbers
> and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
> successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
> political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all need to
> change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
> recommendations.
> 
> If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around other
> people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and make this
> statement.
> 
> I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and discuss... you
> guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong political
> bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact that this
> is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and avoid
> others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.
> 
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
>> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they
>> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we
>> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many people
>> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
>> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit,
>> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
>> induced economic downturn.
>>> 
>>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down
>> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that
>> got it down in the first place.
>>> 
>>> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
>> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to
>> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there
>> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.
>> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for
>> going.
>>> 
>>> The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no
>> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it
>> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the
>> 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty
>> well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
>>> 
>>> We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before
>> the unwashed masses figure it out.
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> -- 
> Jaime Kopchinski
> http://www.jaimekop.com/
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Well now hold on, if "common sense" goes against the numbers because they 
"cannot be trusted" doesn't that just mean "I don't like what the numbers say 
so its clearly against common sense"?
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 12:57:46 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It has 
nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common sense. If you 
want to wear a mask or never leave the house, fine. Otherwise there is so much 
misinformation about wearing masks or not, locking or not has done any good. 
The numbers are not accurate and can’t be trusted. One thing is certain the 
economy has been destroyed. Next week I will be flying again and I am not the 
least bit concerned. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our numbers
> and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
> successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
> political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all need to
> change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
> recommendations.
> 
> If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around other
> people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and make this
> statement.
> 
> I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and discuss... you
> guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong political
> bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact that this
> is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and avoid
> others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
>> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they
>> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we
>> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many people
>> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
>> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit,
>> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
>> induced economic downturn.
>>> 
>>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down
>> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that
>> got it down in the first place.
>>> 
>>> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
>> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to
>> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there
>> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.
>> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for
>> going.
>>> 
>>> The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no
>> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it
>> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the
>> 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty
>> well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
>>> 
>>> We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before
>> the unwashed masses figure it out.
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> --
> Jaime Kopchinski
> http://www.jaimekop.com/
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 The thing about the government forcing you to wear a mask becomes a slippery 
slope. Does this empower the government to control what you wear at all times? 
Is the excuse of "Its for the public good" that strong?
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 12:51:54 PM EDT, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our numbers
and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all need to
change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
recommendations.

If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around other
people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and make this
statement.

I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and discuss... you
guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong political
bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact that this
is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and avoid
others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.





On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they
> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we
> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many people
> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit,
> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
> induced economic downturn.
> >
> > The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down
> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that
> got it down in the first place.
> >
> > I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to
> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there
> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.
> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for
> going.
> >
> > The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no
> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it
> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the
> 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty
> well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
> >
> > We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before
> the unwashed masses figure it out.
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
> --
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Tue, July 7, 2020 1:17 pm, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when
> venturing outside and mingling with other people.

Danger to you?
I can't imagine one, assuming your pulse ox stays at decent levels while
wearing it.

Benefit to you?
About the same as putting up cyclone fence to keep mosquitoes out of your
yard. Virii are very, very small. Go right through your Mann air filter,
for example.

Danger to others?
If you don't wash your hands frequently, and can't keep from touching the
wet mask, it can be noticeable.

Benefit to others?
It reduces the range of your exhaled virii, and stops most of the wet
globs when you sneeze/cough.

It's not that masks are dangerous, idiots are dangerous, and masks don't
stop stupidity.

Myself, I wash my hands before leaving the house, I wash again when I get
home. I don't talk unnecessarily or exhale through my mouth when indoors
away from home, and I hold my breath when somebody is approaching/passing
me in a store.
Mitch

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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Where is the evidence that wearing a mask "Makes it worse" in a peer reviewed 
study?
-Curt

On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 12:24:19 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I do not wear masks unless going somewhere that requires it. There is not 
proof they work and too much evidence they make things worse. That being said I 
have spent a couple of days at an amusement park and a couple of days at a 
water park last month. Probably going to go back again this weekend. I am not 
worried. If I get it I get it. I don’t want to get the cold or flu either but I 
don’t avoid life to try and not catch those either. This covid is just a little 
bit strong strain of the flu. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> 
> That being the case -  how much risk are you willing to take?
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming 
>> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they 
>> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we 
>> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many people 
>> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany, Greece, 
>> > Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit, but far 
>> > less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than induced 
>> > economic downturn.
>> > 
>> > The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down 
>> > to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that 
>> > got it down in the first place.
>> > 
>> > I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation spots 
>> > recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to 
>> > assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there 
>> > involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.  
>> > Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for 
>> > going.
>> > 
>> > The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no 
>> > treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it 
>> > like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the 
>> > 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty 
>> > well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
>> > 
>> > We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before the 
>> > unwashed masses figure it out.
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> > 
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Lower o2 levels, higher co2 levels, mask catches all sorts of contamination 
that you constantly breath in when putting dirty masks back on. Here is an 
article I found from several years ago.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868614/

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> 
> I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when venturing 
> outside and mingling with other people.
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:57 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It has 
>> nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common sense. If 
>> you want to wear a mask or never leave the house, fine. Otherwise there is 
>> so much misinformation about wearing masks or not, locking or not has done 
>> any good. The numbers are not accurate and can’t be trusted. One thing is 
>> certain the economy has been destroyed. Next week I will be flying again and 
>> I am not the least bit concerned. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our numbers
>> > and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
>> > successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
>> > political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all need to
>> > change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
>> > recommendations.
>> > 
>> > If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around other
>> > people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and make this
>> > statement.
>> > 
>> > I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and discuss... you
>> > guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong political
>> > bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact that this
>> > is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and avoid
>> > others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
>> >> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they
>> >> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we
>> >> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many 
>> >> people
>> >> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
>> >> 
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> 
>> >>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
>> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
>> >> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit,
>> >> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
>> >> induced economic downturn.
>> >>> 
>> >>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down
>> >> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that
>> >> got it down in the first place.
>> >>> 
>> >>> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
>> >> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason 
>> >> to
>> >> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there
>> >> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.
>> >> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for
>> >> going.
>> >>> 
>> >>> The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no
>> >> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it
>> >> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the
>> >> 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty
>> >> well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
>> >>> 
>> >>> We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before
>> >> the unwashed masses figure it out.
>> >>> ___
>> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >>> 
>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >>> 
>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >>> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> ___
>> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >> 
>> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >> 
>> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >> 
>> >> --
>> > Jaime Kopchinski
>> > http://www.jaimekop.com/
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> > 
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options 

Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I don't understand any possible downside from wearing a mask when venturing
outside and mingling with other people.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:57 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It has
> nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common sense. If
> you want to wear a mask or never leave the house, fine. Otherwise there is
> so much misinformation about wearing masks or not, locking or not has done
> any good. The numbers are not accurate and can’t be trusted. One thing is
> certain the economy has been destroyed. Next week I will be flying again
> and I am not the least bit concerned.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our numbers
> > and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
> > successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
> > political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all need to
> > change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
> > recommendations.
> >
> > If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around other
> > people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and make
> this
> > statement.
> >
> > I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and discuss... you
> > guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong political
> > bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact that this
> > is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and avoid
> > others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
> >> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as
> they
> >> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because
> we
> >> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many
> people
> >> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
> >> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic
> hit,
> >> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
> >> induced economic downturn.
> >>>
> >>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load
> down
> >> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things
> that
> >> got it down in the first place.
> >>>
> >>> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
> >> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO
> reason to
> >> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going
> there
> >> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.
> >> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for
> >> going.
> >>>
> >>> The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no
> >> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it
> >> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the
> >> 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty
> >> well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
> >>>
> >>> We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before
> >> the unwashed masses figure it out.
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
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> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

The first mention of politics on this was just brought up by you. It has 
nothing to do with politics. It has to do with facts and common sense. If you 
want to wear a mask or never leave the house, fine. Otherwise there is so much 
misinformation about wearing masks or not, locking or not has done any good. 
The numbers are not accurate and can’t be trusted. One thing is certain the 
economy has been destroyed. Next week I will be flying again and I am not the 
least bit concerned. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our numbers
> and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
> successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
> political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all need to
> change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
> recommendations.
> 
> If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around other
> people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and make this
> statement.
> 
> I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and discuss... you
> guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong political
> bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact that this
> is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and avoid
> others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
>> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they
>> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we
>> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many people
>> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
>> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit,
>> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
>> induced economic downturn.
>>> 
>>> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down
>> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that
>> got it down in the first place.
>>> 
>>> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
>> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to
>> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there
>> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.
>> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for
>> going.
>>> 
>>> The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no
>> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it
>> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the
>> 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty
>> well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
>>> 
>>> We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before
>> the unwashed masses figure it out.
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> --
> Jaime Kopchinski
> http://www.jaimekop.com/
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

We lived in fear of leaving the house here in NJ and look at our numbers
and the rest of the New York Cory area... lock down has been very
successful.  Saying otherwise is ignoring scientifically proven facts for
political agenda.  If we have a chance of fighting this, we all need to
change our behaviors and learn to respect the science behind the
recommendations.

If you don’t wear a mask, you shouldn’t be out in public around other
people, period.  And the federal government needs to step up and make this
statement.

I honestly can’t believe this is even a point to argue and discuss... you
guys are very clouded by what you read and hear with strong political
bias.  Forget all the noise and just get back to the basic fact that this
is a respiratory disease people die from.  And wearing a mask and avoid
others reduces its spread.  It’s very simple.





On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they
> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we
> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many people
> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit,
> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
> induced economic downturn.
> >
> > The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down
> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that
> got it down in the first place.
> >
> > I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to
> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there
> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.
> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for
> going.
> >
> > The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no
> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it
> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the
> 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty
> well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
> >
> > We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before
> the unwashed masses figure it out.
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

This quixotic virus can be anything but benign.

https://news.yahoo.com/broadway-actor-nick-cordero-dies-021424594.html


On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:24 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I do not wear masks unless going somewhere that requires it. There is not
> proof they work and too much evidence they make things worse. That being
> said I have spent a couple of days at an amusement park and a couple of
> days at a water park last month. Probably going to go back again this
> weekend. I am not worried. If I get it I get it. I don’t want to get the
> cold or flu either but I don’t avoid life to try and not catch those
> either. This covid is just a little bit strong strain of the flu.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Andrew Strasfogel 
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > That being the case -  how much risk are you willing to take?
> >
> >> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they
> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we
> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many people
> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit,
> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
> induced economic downturn.
> >> >
> >> > The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load
> down to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things
> that got it down in the first place.
> >> >
> >> > I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to
> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there
> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.
> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for
> going.
> >> >
> >> > The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no
> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it
> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the
> 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty
> well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
> >> >
> >> > We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before
> the unwashed masses figure it out.
> >> > ___
> >> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> >
> >> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >> >
> >> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I do not wear masks unless going somewhere that requires it. There is not proof 
they work and too much evidence they make things worse. That being said I have 
spent a couple of days at an amusement park and a couple of days at a water 
park last month. Probably going to go back again this weekend. I am not 
worried. If I get it I get it. I don’t want to get the cold or flu either but I 
don’t avoid life to try and not catch those either. This covid is just a little 
bit strong strain of the flu. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> 
> That being the case -  how much risk are you willing to take?
> 
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming 
>> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they 
>> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we 
>> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many people 
>> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany, Greece, 
>> > Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit, but far 
>> > less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than induced 
>> > economic downturn.
>> > 
>> > The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down 
>> > to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that 
>> > got it down in the first place.
>> > 
>> > I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation spots 
>> > recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to 
>> > assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there 
>> > involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.  
>> > Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for 
>> > going.
>> > 
>> > The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no 
>> > treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it 
>> > like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the 
>> > 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty 
>> > well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
>> > 
>> > We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before the 
>> > unwashed masses figure it out.
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> > 
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[g2mann2 via Mercedes]

China is holding a big celebration this week... They finally manufactured
something that works longer than 30 days...
Too harsh?

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 9:10 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they
> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we
> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many people
> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit,
> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
> induced economic downturn.
> >
> > The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down
> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that
> got it down in the first place.
> >
> > I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to
> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there
> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.
> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for
> going.
> >
> > The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no
> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it
> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the
> 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty
> well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
> >
> > We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before
> the unwashed masses figure it out.
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

That being the case -  how much risk are you willing to take?

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:10 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming
> apparent is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they
> made it out to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we
> are doing a lot more test. The death rate is going down because many people
> have had it and never knew it, and it did not kill them.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany,
> Greece, Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit,
> but far less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than
> induced economic downturn.
> >
> > The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down
> to manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that
> got it down in the first place.
> >
> > I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation
> spots recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to
> assume vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there
> involves consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.
> Unfortunately, for those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for
> going.
> >
> > The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no
> treatments, no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it
> like any disease outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the
> 1940's.  Quarantines, social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty
> well in 1918 too) and stay at home!
> >
> > We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before
> the unwashed masses figure it out.
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

We can’t live in fear and afraid to leave the house. What is becoming apparent 
is this virus is not nearly as deadly or as big of a deal as they made it out 
to be. There are lots more people testing positive because we are doing a lot 
more test. The death rate is going down because many people have had it and 
never knew it, and it did not kill them. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 10:45 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany, Greece, 
> Spain all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit, but far 
> less severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than induced 
> economic downturn.
> 
> The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down to 
> manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that got 
> it down in the first place.
> 
> I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation spots 
> recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to assume 
> vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there involves 
> consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.  Unfortunately, for 
> those friends the alcohol part is the main reason for going.
> 
> The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no treatments, 
> no drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it like any disease 
> outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the 1940's.  Quarantines, 
> social distancing, face masks (which worked pretty well in 1918 too) and stay 
> at home!
> 
> We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before the 
> unwashed masses figure it out.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

New Zealand, Australia, China (especially China), Italy, Germany, Greece, Spain 
all had good luck with initial lockdowns.  Big economic hit, but far less 
severe than a health system collapse and a real rather than induced economic 
downturn.

The problem is that far too many people think getting the case load down to 
manageable means they don't need to keep practicing all the things that got it 
down in the first place.

I have a couple friends who have made more than one trip to vacation spots 
recently, for instance.  Plumb nuts, there is absolutely NO reason to assume 
vacation spots are safe, at all, ever, especially when going there involves 
consumption of large quantites of alcohol in public.  Unfortunately, for those 
friends the alcohol part is the main reason for going.

The message should be "act like it's 1900 -- no antibiotics, no treatments, no 
drugs, no vaccine" -- the way out of this is to treat it like any disease 
outbreak prior to the advent of antibiotics in the 1940's.  Quarantines, social 
distancing, face masks (which worked pretty well in 1918 too) and stay at home!

We will get there, just gonna take a million extra dead people before the 
unwashed masses figure it out.
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Re: [MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Except for New Zealand and Iceland, which were largely spared.  Also
Germany.  The problem is that people act like idiots once restrictions are
loosened.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 6:25 PM Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

>
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/28/lack-evidence-lockdowns-actually-worked-world-scandal/
>
> There is still not a shred of real proof that the planet's reckless
> stay-at-home experiment made any difference
>
>
> Craig
>
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>
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[MBZ] The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal

[Craig via Mercedes]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/28/lack-evidence-lockdowns-actually-worked-world-scandal/

There is still not a shred of real proof that the planet's reckless
stay-at-home experiment made any difference


Craig

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