RE: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Leon Brocard wrote: I'm currently stuck on venues - I *was* gonna hold it at Imperial College (conference fees on the order of single-figure dollar ammounts), but talks have kind of dried up. Check out the hotels in the Heathrow area - they have some superb conference facilities. While the location isn't exactly beautiful, it's at least easy to get to for everyone involved. -- Matt/ Fastnet Software Ltd. High Performance Web Specialists Providing mod_perl, XML, Sybase and Oracle solutions Email for training and consultancy availability. http://sergeant.org http://xml.sergeant.org
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Jeffrey W. Baker wrote: [...] I also think that I wouldn't attend a mod_perl only conference. I can think of very few things that relate only or mostly to mod_perl. A lot of other things are important to us, like Apache configuration, DBI programming, SSL, etc. [...] "Me too". mod_perl alone would be good, but together with the Perl (and other fairly closely related subjects) is better. Most of the code I work runs as much as regular daemons or programs as under mod_perl, so for me the Perl part is as interesting and valuable. If anything I would rather see efforts go to improving the oracon than going to a similar type conference with all sorts of other scripting thingies not at all interesting for me. - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/ more than 70M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
RE: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
Ken wrote: *That* I second. The big thing we need now is an organizer (like Kevin Lenzo did for YAPC 1999) and a venue - best if someone can be both. Throwing another idea into the works, I'm currently exploring ideas for a potential yapc::Europe in London this September. I'm currently stuck on venues - I *was* gonna hold it at Imperial College (conference fees on the order of single-figure dollar ammounts), but talks have kind of dried up. Where are all you mod_perl guys? Would you be willing to come over to the UK? Just an idea! Leon -- Leon Brocard | perl hacker | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
Leon Brocard wrote: Ken wrote: Where are all you mod_perl guys? Would you be willing to come over to the UK? Only if you could get me tickets to see Manchester United at Old Trafford ;-) -- __ Mr. Erich L. Markert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Computer Learning Center TEL (914)422-4328 Pace University 1 Martine Ave White Plains, New York 10606-1932 Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. -- Henry Spencer
RE: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Leon Brocard wrote: Throwing another idea into the works, I'm currently exploring ideas for a potential yapc::Europe in London this September. Interesting. I'm sure my wife would be *thrilled* for me to take her with me on that sort of trip, she's been hounding me to take her to England for the last couple years :) I'm currently stuck on venues - I *was* gonna hold it at Imperial College (conference fees on the order of single-figure dollar ammounts), but talks have kind of dried up. I'm about as qualified to discuss conference facilities in England as I am to discuss CP/M kernel internals, so I'm going to pass on this topic... Where are all you mod_perl guys? Would you be willing to come over to the UK? I've already said I would (and you can see where I am at present below)... OTOH, a couple days ago Randal posted about NOT being able to leave the US. I'm also not sure how a conference in England would affect our friends on the West Coast... I can hop a flight from Boston or New York to London for $300 (assuming I get a sale), it's closer to $1000 from San Francisco or Seattle (or it least, it was when I used to live out West). Of course, I also said (last week) that (and I still feel this way) the best solution for a mod_perl (or Apache::ScriptCon now?) conference is somewhere in/near the Valley -- and that that should be a static location. From personal experience (granted, this was eight years ago), I can say that the Hyatt Regency Bayshore, while a reasonably expensive facility, has beautiful conference facilities and is *VERY* convenient to SFO (as if SFO was particularly convenient in-and-of-itself?). Jeff D. "Spud (Zeppelin)" Almeida Windsor, CT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
I guess I'm not sure why mod_perl needs a conference of its own. Would a mod_perl track as part of the O'Reilly Open Source Conference work for you? That way you wouldn't need to kill a member of the community by pushing organization onto them, as O'Reilly's (excellent) conference organization folks can do the hotels, A/V, catering, and other logistics. Nat
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
I said: I guess I'm not sure why mod_perl needs a conference of its own. Would a mod_perl track as part of the O'Reilly Open Source Conference work for you? That way you wouldn't need to kill a member of the community by pushing organization onto them, as O'Reilly's (excellent) conference organization folks can do the hotels, A/V, catering, and other logistics. And if this isn't acceptable, I could always have a word in the O'Reilly folks' ears about having a mod_perl conference as a standalone event, at a different time and place from the Open Source conference. The problem with standalone conferences is that you need to have reasonably high attendance before they pay for the logistical work and equipment hire needed to put them on. "Reasonably high" could be anywhere from 200 to 500 depending on the hotel, speakers fees, tutorial attendance, number of parallel tracks, etc. It's much less ambitious to start with a track or two devoted to mod_perl at the Open Source conference, and then fork it off into a separate conference if the attendance at those tracks shows there's the interest to justify it. Nat
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Nathan Torkington wrote: The problem with standalone conferences is that you need to have reasonably high attendance before they pay for the logistical work and equipment hire needed to put them on. "Reasonably high" could be anywhere from 200 to 500 depending on the hotel, speakers fees, tutorial attendance, number of parallel tracks, etc. 1) I don't think getting 200 people to attend a mod_perl conference is particularly ambitious at all, especially if it's held in a manner convenient for people to attend. 20,000 people went to Linux World in New York, and it wasn't THAT great of a show If you hold a conference where you already have a fairly thick concentration of mod_perl developers, and you get the right people to speak, people WILL come. 2) What people are saying isn't that we want a huge, IDG-ish production with tracks and a tradeshow floor and catered water and soundsystems and skirted tables. Several people have said they would rather have something along the YAPC model... a small, productive session, perhaps better suited for the conference facilities of a University than those of a hotel. If ever there was something calling for the "KISS" mantra, it was this con. :) Would we appreciate logistial support from O'Reilly? Of course. Do we want this con to be large enough to have to worry about revenue models? Not particularly. Jeff D. "Spud (Zeppelin)" Almeida Windsor, CT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
Jeff D. 'Spud (Zeppelin)' Almeida writes: 1) I don't think getting 200 people to attend a mod_perl conference is particularly ambitious at all, especially if it's held in a manner convenient for people to attend. 20,000 people went to Linux World in New York, and it wasn't THAT great of a show If you hold a conference where you already have a fairly thick concentration of mod_perl developers, and you get the right people to speak, people WILL come. Right, I think 200 people is very do-able. I think you're fooling yourself if you think that Linux World is anywhere comparable to a mod_perl conference. It's beyond apples and oranges. It's peas and watermelons. 2) What people are saying isn't that we want a huge, IDG-ish production with tracks and a tradeshow floor and catered water and soundsystems and skirted tables. Several people have said they would rather have something along the YAPC model... a small, productive session, perhaps better suited for the conference facilities of a University than those of a hotel. If ever there was something calling for the "KISS" mantra, it was this con. :) Right. But I'm saying that putting on a YAPC conference blows the organizer's mind. Kevin Lenzo, the YAPC organizer, had to worry about food, tracks, sound systems, projectors, rooms, accomodation, and printed proceedings. These problems didn't go away because YAPC was on a smaller scale, and in some ways they became more of a problem because there was one person doing the organization and he had to handle it all. I'm not saying that a YAPC-style conference can't be done, I'm just saying that it's not as easy as it sounds. Would we appreciate logistial support from O'Reilly? Of course. Do we want this con to be large enough to have to worry about revenue models? Not particularly. Actually, O'Reilly is pretty mellow about revenue too. They're willing, unlike a lot of companies, to put in time building and promoting conferences. They don't expect wild successes initially. I know this because of my work with them on the Perl conference, which has certainly never been a cash cow. I'm not forcing an O'Reilly conference on anybody, and I don't even have the authority to promise it. I just have the ears of the right people and could suggest that they work with the mod_perl community to put on a conference. Frankly, I think your Route of Least Pain (coincidentally also the Route Most Likely to Succeed) is to have separate mod_perl tracks at the Open Source conference. You'll get rooms dedicated entirely to mod_perl, you (or Doug or whoever the program chair is) can put whatever talks you want in there, you can have your own tutorials. You can even have a room during tutorials for the folks *behind* mod_perl (Doug, Staks, Vivek, etc.) to meet and hammer out future directions and development issues. When I spoke with the conference folks last week, they were keen to get more into helping the developers of the open source tools meet and plan. There was a some-random-java-technology developers meeting at the O'Reilly Java conference, where the folks writing the code that others use got to meet and iron out tricky issues. They had a recorder, whiteboards, the whole nine yards. I'm sure that such a track might even be called a conference in the materials, if you wanted that cachet. Ok, I'm going to shut up now unless people actually ask me a question. I'm sure you all think I'm some kind of O'Reilly stooge. Nat
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Jason Bodnar wrote: Based on Doug's comments, I think a mod_perl track at the ORA conference would be the best solution. We had our own track in 1998 and it was great. And, if the mod_perl track got real popular than it could be spun off into it's own conference. You mean mod_perl wasn't its own track at the 1999 ORA conference? :) I think that the conference is what you make of it. For me, the 1999 ORA conference was a mod_perl conference in everything but name, because I went to all of the mod_perl related stuff, went to the mod_perl related bofs, and hung out with mod_perl people. I also think that I wouldn't attend a mod_perl only conference. I can think of very few things that relate only or mostly to mod_perl. A lot of other things are important to us, like Apache configuration, DBI programming, SSL, etc. In fact, I learned a lot about my own website's performance by attending some Linux kernel tutorials and learning about their tcp/ip stack. Also I think it is bad to put your blinders on and focus too much. I like to learn about new related technologies like jserv and phhttpd that I wouldn't get at a mod_perl conference. -jwb
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
At 11:02 AM 4/5/00 -0700, Jeffrey W. Baker wrote: On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Jason Bodnar wrote: Based on Doug's comments, I think a mod_perl track at the ORA conference would be the best solution. We had our own track in 1998 and it was great. And, if the mod_perl track got real popular than it could be spun off into it's own conference. You mean mod_perl wasn't its own track at the 1999 ORA conference? :) I didn't get much out of the mod_perl stuff at the ORA conference. Too much basic and not enough advanced stuff. -- Jason Bodnar + Tivoli Systems = [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
At 02:14 PM 4/5/00 -0400, Vivek Khera wrote: "JB" == Jason Bodnar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JB I didn't get much out of the mod_perl stuff at the ORA conference. Too much JB basic and not enough advanced stuff. What kinds of topics would you like to see covered. I'm sure others like myself would love to put together some talks and/or tutorials on some subjects. In '98 I spoke about performance tuning. Is the '00 conference schedule already full or are they still seeking speakers? '98 was good. I spoke at that one as well with Mark Imbracio about using mod_perl and databases. In '99 I seem to remember a two part into to mod_perl session as being the big mod_perl thing at the conference. I don't need intro talks. Performance tuning would be good. An in-depth look at the Apaceh/Perl API. Database stuff like I did. Embperl/Mason/ASP. I guess my big problem with the ORA conference last year was that all the tutorials I attended last year tried to cover the basics and didn't lead enough time for in-depth informaiton. This was true for all the tracks not just the perl track. On my comment card I suggested that in the future, the tutorials need to happen at the end of the conference. This way people could get the intro stuff from the 1hr sessions in the main conference and then be prepared for the meat you'd expect to get from the tutorials. -- Jason Bodnar + Tivoli Systems = [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
Jason Bodnar writes: I guess my big problem with the ORA conference last year was that all the tutorials I attended last year tried to cover the basics and didn't lead enough time for in-depth informaiton. Yup, I agree. The level of the material offered, though, is in the hands of the program chair. So when I put together the Perl conference tutorials, I try to make sure that at any one time there's something that *I* would like to see, as well as something that a less advanced (more intermediate) programmer might want to attend. So this year there's Damian Conway's "making your mind go boom with OO in Perl" talks, as well as MjD's hardcore Perl. The modperl program chair could decide to have a "how to get started" tutorial as well as a "popping the hood and attacking the transmission with a wrench" tutorial. In fact, I hope that'd happen. In some ways the program chair is limited to the tutorials that people offer: if nobody is interested in giving a tutorial on pushing Mason to its limits, it can't be offered. By the way, now's the time to start thinking of topics and tutorials and other material for the 2001 conference. The earlier the program chair can start hounding folks for talks and tutorials, the better. Nat
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
Jeff D. 'Spud (Zeppelin)' Almeida writes: I don't know why it is that we (as a computer industry) feel compelled to attach grossly overinflated registration fees to our professional meetings, but the ones that don't have them (like YAPC) tend to be better-appreciated. The registration fee is set based on the costs of producing it. TPC has higher marketing, organization, and execution costs than YAPC did. TPC could then afford to help speakers get to the conference--many of the more remote Perl gods were helped with their travel to the early TPCs. YAPC is cheaper, and is fun in its own right, but it was a completely different experience to TPC. Both, IMHO, were fun. YAPC was more intimate and I had the feeling of excitement that it was being done on the wire by folks just like me. At TPC I enjoyed the crowds, the huge variety of people I could talk to, the ability to sit back and put myself in someone else's hands, the resort atmosphere. One wasn't, I don't think, better than the other. They both pleased me in different ways. The easiest way to avoid the Open Source Conference registration fee is to be a speaker. I really strongly encourage *everyone* who does fun and interesting mod_perl things to submit proposals for talks and tutorial to the next conference. Speakers and tutors are comped registration. Tutors even get *paid*. Imagine: being paid to fly to Monterey in July and hang out with a bunch of mod_perlers Nat
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Jason Bodnar wrote: At 02:14 PM 4/5/00 -0400, Vivek Khera wrote: "JB" == Jason Bodnar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JB I didn't get much out of the mod_perl stuff at the ORA conference. Too much JB basic and not enough advanced stuff. What kinds of topics would you like to see covered. I'm sure others like myself would love to put together some talks and/or tutorials on some subjects. In '98 I spoke about performance tuning. Is the '00 conference schedule already full or are they still seeking speakers? '98 was good. I spoke at that one as well with Mark Imbracio about using Imbriaco, but it's the thought that counts. :-) mod_perl and databases. In '99 I seem to remember a two part into to mod_perl session as being the big mod_perl thing at the conference. I don't need intro talks. There were numerous mod_perl talks at the last conference, but like you said, they were mostly all intro-level talks. Also, when the mod_perl track had to compete with the other tracks, and there was something interesting like the Quiz Show going on, I'm afraid that I was a mod_perl deserter and went over to the other track. :-) To be honest, I got _far_ more out of the BOFs than the scheduled talks (not to mention beer with Andreas, John, and Doug over at that little pub that was in walking distance ... :-) -Mark
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
Leslie Mikesell writes: personal styles of perl coding are involved. It would be nice if some outlines/slides of the material could be online before the signup deadlines and the actual session could spend more time in discussion and question/answer than covering the overview. (getting away from mod_perl here, sorry) We hear and obey. This year's conference has quite detailed descriptions of the tutorials. For example: Apache::ASP Joshua Chamas Tuesday, 7/18/2000 at 8:45 AM Who Should Attend: Web developers who have used CGI.pm, mod_perl, or IIS/ASP; and Web designers who want to make their sites dynamic. A basic understanding of Perl, object oriented Perl, and HTML would be helpful. Learn how to build a full-featured Web site with Apache::ASP, exploring the ins and outs of mixing HTML with Perl; session user tracking and logins; ASP Web events; SSI include code modularization; object methods and banner serving; performance tuning; Web clustering; and XML rendering embedded with HTML Perl. Course Outline: Syntax(creating a live Web page by embedding Perl into HTML) User tracking Events (Making a Web site more like an application) Modularity Objects Performance tuning Web clustering XML and Apache::ASP Future of Apache::ASP I encourage tutors to leave more time for QA, but that's up to the individual tutor's discretion. Nat
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 April 2000 16:51 Subject: Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference : On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Nathan Torkington wrote: : : The problem with standalone conferences is that you need : to have reasonably high attendance before they pay for the logistical : work and equipment hire needed to put them on. "Reasonably high" : could be anywhere from 200 to 500 depending on the hotel, speakers : fees, tutorial attendance, number of parallel tracks, etc. : : 1) I don't think getting 200 people to attend a mod_perl conference is : particularly ambitious at all, especially if it's held in a manner : convenient for people to attend. 20,000 people went to Linux World in New : York, and it wasn't THAT great of a show If you hold a conference : where you already have a fairly thick concentration of mod_perl : developers, and you get the right people to speak, people WILL come. Would 200 not be enough ? If it cannot be profitable / viable with that number / order of magnitude then there must be a problem. : : 2) What people are saying isn't that we want a huge, IDG-ish production : with tracks and a tradeshow floor and catered water and soundsystems and : skirted tables. Several people have said they would rather have something : along the YAPC model... a small, productive session, perhaps better suited Here, here ! Never been to YAPC - I live in the UK (South of London) - but I would _much_ prefer to ( read only ) go to a simple, yet highly productive event than anything flashy. : for the conference facilities of a University than those of a hotel. If : ever there was something calling for the "KISS" mantra, it was this con. :) agreed again on the KISS front Greg Cope : Would we appreciate logistial support from O'Reilly? Of course. Do we : want this con to be large enough to have to worry about revenue models? : Not particularly. : : : Jeff D. "Spud (Zeppelin)" Almeida : Windsor, CT : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
From: "Leon Brocard" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "mod_perl list" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 April 2000 09:06 Subject: RE: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference : Ken wrote: : : *That* I second. The big thing we need now is an organizer : (like Kevin Lenzo did for YAPC 1999) and a venue - best if someone : can be both. : : Throwing another idea into the works, I'm currently exploring : ideas for a potential yapc::Europe in London this September. : : I'm currently stuck on venues - I *was* gonna hold it at : Imperial College (conference fees on the order of single-figure : dollar ammounts), but talks have kind of dried up. what "talks" ? : : Where are all you mod_perl guys? Would you be willing to come : over to the UK? I live in Brighton - (South of London) so this is the most sensible suggestions yet (for me anyway :-) I would consider a US venue _but_ only if it were inexpensive - as a flight + hotels + spending money + registration etc ... can be come quite expensive (I have to pay for myself). I hope all the US folks would not underestimate the extra cost for us Europeans of a west coast venue. : : Just an idea! Leon : -- : Leon Brocard | perl hacker | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ah - iii.co.uk Greg Cope
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Doug MacEachern) wrote: i'll share my thoughts on this that we discussed at ApacheCon. i'm not sure about a dedicated "mod_perl conference" standing on it's own two feet. at least, not at the production level of ApacheCon or oracon, but maybe something like YAPC. I second that (actually, I think I firsted it, so maybe you second it =). if stas' idea were to spawn into another conference, i think the "Scripting languages for WebDev" idea is too broad. Right, I don't think we want to get into all the various commercial products that are available with their own little GUIs and whatnot. Apache seems like a good limiting factor for topical inclusion. sure, there might be some overlap with ApacheCon and oracon, but if it's scheduled at the right time, in the right place, i think it could work out quite well. *That* I second. The big thing we need now is an organizer (like Kevin Lenzo did for YAPC 1999) and a venue - best if someone can be both. I'd volunteer, but (a) my planning skills are legendarily bad, (b) my teaching gig eats all my time, and (c) I have no venue. Otherwise I'd jump at the chance. Perhaps I could help someone out if they want to be the main person? ------ Ken Williams Last Bastion of Euclidity [EMAIL PROTECTED]The Math Forum
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
The Grand Cayman is not US Virgin Island? Ruben "Randal L. Schwartz" wrote: "Vivek" == Vivek Khera [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Z" == Zeppelin Jeff writes: Z If you spend a week a year in Vegas over a couple of consecutive years, Z you'll rapidly become an expert at "How to attend a conference in Vegas." Vivek Good point. Let's move the conferences to Grand Cayman, then, since I Vivek just spent a week familiarizing myself with it ;-) And the weather Vivek there is excellent... Well, then I won't be able to go, since I'm still on probation, and can't get out of the US. sigh -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! -- Ruben I Safir [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perl Notes: http://www.wynn.com/jewish/perl_course http://www.brooklynonline.com Manager of Intranet Development NYU College of Dentistry Resume: http://www.wynn.com/jewish/resume.html
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, John D Groenveld wrote: Looks like O'Reilly is still soliciting Birds of a Feather sessions ideas for the Perl Conference 4.0. For my liver's sake, I hope there will be a mod_perl-related BOF each night. :) i suspect your liver will be well taken care of even without nightly mod_perl bofs :)
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gunthar, Previous to reading your post I thought I was the least qualified to comment on the conference . . . :) I do think everyone is qualified on this list to say what they would like out of a conference that involves mod_perl. Personally, a tightly focused Apache::mod_perl::conference might actually get me to move away from a keyboard. PS: I don't want to be a programming whore, and if I did I wouldn't attend a mod_perl conference. There are plenty of conferences for that. I'd rather eat PBJ and develop open source while drawing unemployment, than to perfect my whoredom. That is your perogative, but then are you also interested in Python? PHP? Java? I know Java isn't open source, but it also isn't Microsoft and has a relatively open API. Of course that brings us to the question as to whether OReilly Perl conference is really giving people the depth in what seems to be an increasingly popular reason for using Perl: mod_perl. If you want to do a tightly focused Apache::Mod_perl conference, then, I would tend to think it would be cool to have a mod_perl specific track rather than bundling it with another track. The problem with conferences is that they are expensive to hold. Not all attendees also have the opportunity to have their employers pay for more than one conference a year. Given this, combining a good round of related technologies together helps get vendor sponsorship and the largest amount of people to attend. Focus is good. So I like that part of your suggestion, but I think that can be handled by having a dedicated track in a larger conference. If you think OReilly isn't doing a mod_perl specific track with enough advanced topics covered this year, then maybe YAPC could consider taking on this task... Although YAPC is East Coast. However, OReilly has been pretty good. For example, they had these "Guru is In" sessions, and actually Doug MacEachern himself did one! You could ask him ANYTHING you wanted to about Perl (which was great idea) -- the only problem with last year is that they shoved the Guru Is In sessions into some side office building that was hard to find (for my first time anyway). IM(Inconsequential)HO, Jeff CN=Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 03/31/2000 10:30:02 AM
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
Gunther Birznieks writes: Of course that brings us to the question as to whether OReilly Perl conference is really giving people the depth in what seems to be an increasingly popular reason for using Perl: mod_perl. If you want to do a tightly focused Apache::Mod_perl conference, then, I would tend to think it would be cool to have a mod_perl specific track rather than bundling it with another track. Hi, I work with O'Reilly on the Perl Conference, and advise them on the other tracks and general structure of their conferences. Thanks for the kind words about the Open Source conference and the Perl Conference. I've been pondering the mod_perl thing too. The attendance figures for the Perl conference last year were down about 200 people, but those numbers are deceptive because of the conference situation. First I think we lost some people because of the move to Monterey, but I really doubt it was that big. The big cause of smaller numbers is that the down-by-200 number is reached by asking attendees "which track are you here for?" and 200 fewer people said "Perl" in 1999 than attended the Perl Conference in 1998. But mod_perl was bundled with The Perl Conference in 1998, whereas in 1999 they were counted separately. I think they're beautifully complementary subjects. I've though a little about a separate mod_perl track at future conferences. The big problem I see is that then the Apache conference doesn't have mod_perl in it. People who turn up to that will be exposed to PHP, Java jerklets, Active Spooging Pages, and all the rest, but not to Perl. And that makes me nervous. Perhaps the best solution is to have the Apache track contain a room (two? rooms are tight, perhaps only one) dedicated just to mod_perl. It could be geographically situated so it's between the rooms used for the Perl conference and the rooms used for the Apache track. We might even be able to find some labelling gimmick such that it appears as a part of both the Perl conference and the Apache tracks. ANYTHING you wanted to about Perl (which was great idea) -- the only problem with last year is that they shoved the Guru Is In sessions into some side office building that was hard to find (for my first time anyway). We definitely got scorched for this in the feedback. To some degree we're at the mercy of the hotel layout: if there isn't a small room available, we can't justify sacrificing a track and using a 150-person room for the guru sessions. The rooms are reconfigurable to some degree, with the air walls, but the basic problem is geographical. I know that the conference folks are aware of it, though, and will be working hard to avoid a repeat. Similarly, the papers room at the Perl conference was isolated, and we're going to try to avoid isolating anyone this time around. Nat
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Stas Bekman wrote: The candidates I've been thinking about are php, python, perlex, fastcgi. Camelot thought that java would fit in, I'm not sure about this, but it can bring more people and sponsors. Other mainstream scripting languages/technologies we might think about. If you did this, how about a competition - at the start of the conference you give out the problem specification, developers from each camp get to go off and implement a solution over the 2 days, and at the end of the conf you benchmark them... fastest solution wins a prize, (as does the neatest?)... My other thought would be _please_ make it east coast. It costs so much more to get to the west coast for Europeans (and the jet lag is a killer!). -- Matt/ Fastnet Software Ltd. High Performance Web Specialists Providing mod_perl, XML, Sybase and Oracle solutions Email for training and consultancy availability. http://sergeant.org http://xml.sergeant.org
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
on 3/30/00 3:07 PM, Stas Bekman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Therefore I've suggested to hold a "Server Side Web App Dev using Scripting Languages" conference (you think of a shorter and nicer name :) So we want to invite speakers from all "mainstream" camps that use scripting languages for the web development. How about calling it 'WebDev Scripting Conference' ? The candidates I've been thinking about are php, python, perlex, fastcgi. Camelot thought that java would fit in, I'm not sure about this, but it can bring more people and sponsors. Other mainstream scripting languages/technologies we might think about. Cover these key technologies: mod_perl, php, expect (tcl-lets), python (these four primarily) - then maybe some smaller side tracks with general perl, basic java, etc. We wouldn't want the main corporate sponsors clouding the conference theme with 'what else' are they were doing - other than what this conference was about... Why people would go to this yet another conference? It's simple -- think about IT managers. In order to make sure they get the latest advances of the webdev technology they send their people to the Perl and Apache conferences. Isn't it a waste? (Both conference a great but read on) Now we create a single conference that can cover all the aspects of the web development in one place. I feel this would a great idea, especially since the Apache conference struck me as being attended by a lot of more advanced users than I expected, for one, and they were asking a few questions the conference speakers either couldn't answer or choose not to answer. I feel a more direct technology oriented conference covering a main track of Server-side Scripting and application development dynamics. I myself would be interested in some 'boot cap' courses in scripting combat design - in the trenches - how to take a CGI-based application and effectively and quickly transform it into a mod_cgi based application; something covering more concrete real world designs and pitfalls, plus maybe a porting shop session where people (attendees) can bring in their "I have this, it's a CGI, but I would like it to be a mo_perl centric application..." Something like that. :] When I wake up more, even, maybe I'll have a real thought here soon... -Sneex- :] - FCCJ * 501 W State St * Jacksonville, Fl 32202 * 904/632-3089 -
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Bill Jones wrote:
How about calling it 'WebDev Scripting Conference' ?
That doesn't mean it is a server-side centric conference. Under that
title, JavaScript and ActiveX fit.
Cover these key technologies: mod_perl, php, expect (tcl-lets),
python (these four primarily) - then maybe some smaller side tracks
with general perl, basic java, etc. We wouldn't want the main
corporate sponsors clouding the conference theme with 'what else'
are they were doing - other than what this conference was about...
I agree. The big names (Sun, Microsoft, whoever) could really crowd the
issues with stuff like new Windows Scripting hosts, or Solaris' ability
with Javascript, or even a Win2krap banner.
I feel this would a great idea, especially since the Apache
conference struck me as being attended by a lot of
more advanced users than I expected, for one, and they were
asking a few questions the conference speakers either couldn't
answer or choose not to answer. I feel a more direct technology
oriented conference covering a main track of Server-side
Scripting and application development dynamics.
If all things were equal, I would want just a 1 week session in some hotel
somewhere with Stein, MacEachern, Schwartz, or Wall in a kind of
beer-pizza coding session binge. Get about 50 or so together with a
big screen, some computers, and a few web servers and let us choose from
some projects ("Developing handlers for the life cycle stages for custom
webserver design", or "Using mod_perl to create a more secure web server",
etc). Those are the kind of things I'm interested in. I want real world
examples focused on things in which I am interested. I don't want a "3
lines to 'Hello World'" feel. In short, I want in depth coverage of
mod_perl. I couldn't attend the ApacheCon, but I think I can convince my
boss to pay for this one.
I myself would be interested in some 'boot cap' courses in
scripting combat design - in the trenches - how to take a
CGI-based application and effectively and quickly transform it
into a mod_cgi based application; something covering more concrete
real world designs and pitfalls, plus maybe a porting shop session where
people (attendees) can bring in their "I have this, it's a CGI, but I would
like it to be a mo_perl centric application..."
I agree. The shops are an interesting idea. One on one with some good
minds always fits the bill.
J. J. Horner
Linux, Apache, Perl, Unix, Stronghold
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knoxlug.org
System has been up: 8 days.
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
I think the idea of a Web Developers conference for Open Source technologies is a good idea. ApacheCon was a good technical conference, but not as much for the content providers as the system providers. The people that actually put a site together usually don't care what the system is as long as it works. They are more concerned about how to program with PHP or mod_perl+Embperl than who to compile Apache -- that's someone else's job usually. The conference that is being proposed would be for those folks that develop the content, not run the systems. ApacheCon did have some of this, but a lot was more basic than these people would need -- for example, changes in the Apache API going to 2.0. I sat next to a fellow ApacheCon attendee on the flight out of Orlando. She thought a developers conference would be very good. While she enjoyed ApacheCon, there wasn't enough for the developer that doesn't need to worry about the underlying system. Some of the technologies already mentioned - php, mod_perl, various build-ons (Midgard, HTML::Mason, EmbPerl) - are good. We might also want to consider adding such things as the Gimp CVS, MySQL since these are also great Open Source (or nearly so) products that can be used to build great websites. Maybe even a vi or emacs class :) +-- James Smith - [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.jamesmith.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://sourcegarden.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://cis.tamu.edu/systems/opensystems/ +--
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
Someone had wondered about a name for the conference, and a way to keep it mod_perly... ...mod_conference... mod_* PerlMumbleHandler certain apache/mod_perl friendly 'dules (Mason,Em?b?perl,Apache::DBI) if someone is interested the MySQL, CVS, vi and emacs talks
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
You aren't necessarily the only point of view. At some points (especially with mod_perl), Apache tracks become interesting to attend. However, more often my particular job entails me being a programming whore, and so I am equally interested in Java, Perl, and Microsoft COM/DCOM/ASP technologies *especially* anything that lets them talk to one another. eg a few weeks ago I whipped up a Java SOAP (XML-RPC pseudo-standard) server to act as a hub to allow Microsoft and Java and Perl SOAP clients to talk to it for a project that require this cross platform integration. The project was quite simple actually, SOAP is relatively well laid out (for simple spec, for complex spec it's still up in the air). I ended up doing it myself since the developmentor folk's java SOAP server is still quite buggy as it attempts to implement everything (and difficult to debug something that isnt open source). I guess that's getting off topic, but I frequently find myself having to pull cross platform knowledge out of a hat if I want to use Perl or Java in a Microsoft envrionment or hooking into a mMicrosoft specific product that a company previously purchased or invested development time in. I am interested in Python and PHP but on an architectual level. Later, Gunther On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Cliff Rayman wrote: if you bring in all sorts of other technologies, how is this different than being part of apacheCon or Perl Conference? at least when I go to those (if i have time), almost everything else at the conference has some interest for me. i have only a modicum of interest in python, cold fusion and the like. either make a mod_perl ONLY conference or stay attached to ApacheCon or the Perl Conference. cliff rayman genwax.com "J. Horner" wrote: On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Stas Bekman wrote: First of all, why holding yet another conference, the answer is simple, we want mod_perl to be in the center of the event and not a side project. Think about Perl Conference -- mod_perl is just a little part of the Apache track. Think about ApacheCon -- mod_perl is again just a drop in a ocean. snip The rest are full tracks dedicated for each technology, so if I want to learn mod_perl I'd spend all the days listening to mod_perl speakers so when the conference is over I'll go back with a bag full of tricks and a very good push to get me going when I'll start coding myself. Having a dedicated track will allow to provide all the information that generally being skipped due to the lack of time. I like the idea of mod_perl being the center of attention. There are aspects of mod_perl in which I am very weak. I'm wondering if this will fit the bill, though. In this scenario, we will have a conference with only partial interest in mod_perl. With all of these other technologies, we will be able to bring in funding and support from some big names (possibly Sun, Allaire, etc), but we still only have a small piece of the pie. We will have, in effect, a cluster of conferences. Also, we will need space for each and every faction attending (a mod_perl conference room, a Cold Fusion conference room, a Java area, etc). Is this feasible? Will this solve the problem? I don't imagine a large amount of cooperation from competing vendors. Rebuttal? J. J. Horner Linux, Apache, Perl, Unix, Stronghold [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knoxlug.org System has been up: 8 days.
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Jeff D. 'Spud (Zeppelin)' Almeida wrote: I'm also of the opinion that it should JUST be mod_perl, and that "smaller is better" approach is well-suited to the objectives... after all, who needs ANOTHER bloody 20,000 attendee tradeshow? Softbank, et al, make plenty of money on the existing ones... Can have it in my garage if you like :) I know someone mentioned having it on the East Coast, but I really believe (and keep in mind, I'm on the East Coast myself ATM) that if close-to-half the community is in California (labor market statistics I've seen show that that may even be an understatement), then by having it on the East Coast, all we'd be doing is driving the average-cost-per-attendee up and the overall attendance down, especially among rank-and-file developers. Pah! I seriously think you're underestimating the european contingent, however the number of europeans that might travel at all to the states, never mind the west coast, may not justify it. Maybe I should setup a straw poll on modperl.sergeant.org... -- Matt/ Fastnet Software Ltd. High Performance Web Specialists Providing mod_perl, XML, Sybase and Oracle solutions Email for training and consultancy availability. http://sergeant.org http://xml.sergeant.org
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
"MS" == Matt Sergeant [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: MS On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Jeff D. 'Spud (Zeppelin)' Almeida wrote: that that may even be an understatement), then by having it on the East Coast, all we'd be doing is driving the average-cost-per-attendee up and the overall attendance down, especially among rank-and-file developers. MS Pah! I seriously think you're underestimating the european contingent, MS however the number of europeans that might travel at all to the states, MS never mind the west coast, may not justify it. Maybe I should setup a MS straw poll on modperl.sergeant.org... Yeah... at the Perl2.0 conference, there were so many people (including myself) that went up to Tim O. asking him to have the next one on the east coast. Why not get the real stats of perl people geographic distribution from the perl conference? Then adjust it to account for the increased cost and time of travelling to that area (reduce the weighting of the west coast numbers) and see. I don't think you'll find that there are more perlers (and/or mod_perlers on the left coast than there are on the right. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vivek Khera, Ph.D.Khera Communications, Inc. Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rockville, MD +1-301-545-6996 PGP MIME spoken herehttp://www.kciLink.com/home/khera/
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apache::Conference I can't decide if it is a good thing or no, seeing as there might be some confusion that it is really just another ApacheCon You have a point. How about: Apache::PerlConference ?? :) Jeff D. "Spud (Zeppelin)" Almeida Windsor, CT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
I really like your ideas, my experience with Oracle, USENIX, and O'Reilly conferences is that the organizers are generally open to new formats but its up to the user community to provide the content. If 20 people responded to the RFP with papers about using Mason or Embperl, then O'Reilly would setup a track dealing specifically with embedding Perl into HTML. Its not too late to provide a greater modperl emphasis to the O'Reilly conference: http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon2000/bofs/ Looks like O'Reilly is still soliciting Birds of a Feather sessions ideas for the Perl Conference 4.0. For my liver's sake, I hope there will be a mod_perl-related BOF each night. :) John [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
Gunthar, Previous to reading your post I thought I was the least qualified to comment on the conference . . . Personally, a tightly focused Apache::mod_perl::conference might actually get me to move away from a keyboard. PS: I don't want to be a programming whore, and if I did I wouldn't attend a mod_perl conference. There are plenty of conferences for that. I'd rather eat PBJ and develop open source while drawing unemployment, than to perfect my whoredom. IM(Inconsequential)HO, Jeff CN=Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 03/31/2000 10:30:02 AM Sent by: Gunther Birznieks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent From the mail file of: Jeff Bulley To: Cliff Rayman [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference You aren't necessarily the only point of view. At some points (especially with mod_perl), Apache tracks become interesting to attend. However, more often my particular job entails me being a programming whore, and so I am equally interested in Java, Perl, and Microsoft COM/DCOM/ASP technologies *especially* anything that lets them talk to one another. eg a few weeks ago I whipped up a Java SOAP (XML-RPC pseudo-standard) server to act as a hub to allow Microsoft and Java and Perl SOAP clients to talk to it for a project that require this cross platform integration. The project was quite simple actually, SOAP is relatively well laid out (for simple spec, for complex spec it's still up in the air). I ended up doing it myself since the developmentor folk's java SOAP server is still quite buggy as it attempts to implement everything (and difficult to debug something that isnt open source). I guess that's getting off topic, but I frequently find myself having to pull cross platform knowledge out of a hat if I want to use Perl or Java in a Microsoft envrionment or hooking into a mMicrosoft specific product that a company previously purchased or invested development time in. I am interested in Python and PHP but on an architectual level. Later, Gunther On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Cliff Rayman wrote: if you bring in all sorts of other technologies, how is this different than being part of apacheCon or Perl Conference? at least when I go to those (if i have time), almost everything else at the conference has some interest for me. i have only a modicum of interest in python, cold fusion and the like. either make a mod_perl ONLY conference or stay attached to ApacheCon or the Perl Conference. cliff rayman genwax.com "J. Horner" wrote: On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Stas Bekman wrote: First of all, why holding yet another conference, the answer is simple, we want mod_perl to be in the center of the event and not a side project. Think about Perl Conference -- mod_perl is just a little part of the Apache track. Think about ApacheCon -- mod_perl is again just a drop in a ocean. snip The rest are full tracks dedicated for each technology, so if I want to learn mod_perl I'd spend all the days listening to mod_perl speakers so when the conference is over I'll go back with a bag full of tricks and a very good push to get me going when I'll start coding myself. Having a dedicated track will allow to provide all the information that generally being skipped due to the lack of time. I like the idea of mod_perl being the center of attention. There are aspects of mod_perl in which I am very weak. I'm wondering if this will fit the bill, though. In this scenario, we will have a conference with only partial interest in mod_perl. With all of these other technologies, we will be able to bring in funding and support from some big names (possibly Sun, Allaire, etc), but we still only have a small piece of the pie. We will have, in effect, a cluster of conferences. Also, we will need space for each and every faction attending (a mod_perl conference room, a Cold Fusion conference room, a Java area, etc). Is this feasible? Will this solve the problem? I don't imagine a large amount of cooperation from competing vendors. Rebuttal? J. J. Horner Linux, Apache, Perl, Unix, Stronghold [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knoxlug.org System has been up: 8 days.
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On 31-Mar-00 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gunthar, Previous to reading your post I thought I was the least qualified to comment on the conference . . . That was so uncalled for. Actually it was intended to be self-depracating as well. Personally, a tightly focused Apache::mod_perl::conference might actually get me to move away from a keyboard. PS: I don't want to be a programming whore, and if I did I wouldn't attend a mod_perl conference. There are plenty of conferences for that. I'd rather eat PBJ and develop open source while drawing unemployment, than to perfect my whoredom. Perhaps you should be a programming whore for a while. Try getting completely different closed source systems to communicate for a while and not only will you appreciate open source technologies but you'll actually be a better programmer. I work in a financial services firm that thinks MVS and anything Big Blue is the cats meow, I've been around since a 2400bps connect between to differing systems was a major success. I don't think lack of expirience base is the problem, however being in the middle of a cigarette quit might have influenced my tone. maybe I was a tad impulsive... hrmm. Sorry -- just a tad edgy today. Jeff-- Backing away from the keyboard slowly hands above my head. . . CN=Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 03/31/2000 10:30:02 AM Sent by: Gunther Birznieks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent From the mail file of: Jeff Bulley To: Cliff Rayman [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference You aren't necessarily the only point of view. At some points (especially with mod_perl), Apache tracks become interesting to attend. However, more often my particular job entails me being a programming whore, and so I am equally interested in Java, Perl, and Microsoft COM/DCOM/ASP technologies *especially* anything that lets them talk to one another. eg a few weeks ago I whipped up a Java SOAP (XML-RPC pseudo-standard) server to act as a hub to allow Microsoft and Java and Perl SOAP clients to talk to it for a project that require this cross platform integration. The project was quite simple actually, SOAP is relatively well laid out (for simple spec, for complex spec it's still up in the air). I ended up doing it myself since the developmentor folk's java SOAP server is still quite buggy as it attempts to implement everything (and difficult to debug something that isnt open source). I guess that's getting off topic, but I frequently find myself having to pull cross platform knowledge out of a hat if I want to use Perl or Java in a Microsoft envrionment or hooking into a mMicrosoft specific product that a company previously purchased or invested development time in. I am interested in Python and PHP but on an architectual level. Later, Gunther On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Cliff Rayman wrote: if you bring in all sorts of other technologies, how is this different than being part of apacheCon or Perl Conference? at least when I go to those (if i have time), almost everything else at the conference has some interest for me. i have only a modicum of interest in python, cold fusion and the like. either make a mod_perl ONLY conference or stay attached to ApacheCon or the Perl Conference. cliff rayman genwax.com "J. Horner" wrote: On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Stas Bekman wrote: First of all, why holding yet another conference, the answer is simple, we want mod_perl to be in the center of the event and not a side project. Think about Perl Conference -- mod_perl is just a little part of the Apache track. Think about ApacheCon -- mod_perl is again just a drop in a ocean. snip The rest are full tracks dedicated for each technology, so if I want to learn mod_perl I'd spend all the days listening to mod_perl speakers so when the conference is over I'll go back with a bag full of tricks and a very good push to get me going when I'll start coding myself. Having a dedicated track will allow to provide all the information that generally being skipped due to the lack of time. I like the idea of mod_perl being the center of attention. There are aspects of mod_perl in which I am very weak. I'm wondering if this will fit the bill, though. In this scenario, we will have a conference with only partial interest in mod_perl. With all of these other technologies, we will be able to bring in funding and support from some big names (possibly Sun, Allaire, etc), but we still only have a small piece of the pie. We will have, in effect, a cluster of conferences. Also, we will need space for each and every faction attending (a mod_perl conference room, a Cold Fusion conference room, a Java area, etc). Is this feasible? Will this solve the problem? I don't imagine a large amount of cooperation from competing vendors. Rebuttal? J. J. Horner Linux, Apache,
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
Easy to get people to pay to be tutored by gurus.
add Gerald Richter to the list since i use embperl at my
place.
sign me up right now if you can get their participation.
"J. Horner" wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Bill Jones wrote:
How about calling it 'WebDev Scripting Conference' ?
That doesn't mean it is a server-side centric conference. Under that
title, JavaScript and ActiveX fit.
Cover these key technologies: mod_perl, php, expect (tcl-lets),
python (these four primarily) - then maybe some smaller side tracks
with general perl, basic java, etc. We wouldn't want the main
corporate sponsors clouding the conference theme with 'what else'
are they were doing - other than what this conference was about...
I agree. The big names (Sun, Microsoft, whoever) could really crowd the
issues with stuff like new Windows Scripting hosts, or Solaris' ability
with Javascript, or even a Win2krap banner.
I feel this would a great idea, especially since the Apache
conference struck me as being attended by a lot of
more advanced users than I expected, for one, and they were
asking a few questions the conference speakers either couldn't
answer or choose not to answer. I feel a more direct technology
oriented conference covering a main track of Server-side
Scripting and application development dynamics.
If all things were equal, I would want just a 1 week session in some hotel
somewhere with Stein, MacEachern, Schwartz, or Wall in a kind of
beer-pizza coding session binge. Get about 50 or so together with a
big screen, some computers, and a few web servers and let us choose from
some projects ("Developing handlers for the life cycle stages for custom
webserver design", or "Using mod_perl to create a more secure web server",
etc). Those are the kind of things I'm interested in. I want real world
examples focused on things in which I am interested. I don't want a "3
lines to 'Hello World'" feel. In short, I want in depth coverage of
mod_perl. I couldn't attend the ApacheCon, but I think I can convince my
boss to pay for this one.
I myself would be interested in some 'boot cap' courses in
scripting combat design - in the trenches - how to take a
CGI-based application and effectively and quickly transform it
into a mod_cgi based application; something covering more concrete
real world designs and pitfalls, plus maybe a porting shop session where
people (attendees) can bring in their "I have this, it's a CGI, but I would
like it to be a mo_perl centric application..."
I agree. The shops are an interesting idea. One on one with some good
minds always fits the bill.
J. J. Horner
Linux, Apache, Perl, Unix, Stronghold
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knoxlug.org
System has been up: 8 days.
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
USENIX organizes conferences all over the US and their program is in the same cost range. Don't get me wrong, I'm on the East Coast and I love the chance to go West for "vacation" but I can also see why the Europeans might prefer an East Coast site. Of course, the APAC folks probably prefer California. Site selection is never going to please everyone, that's why varying it from year to year is the friendliest solution. John [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, John D Groenveld wrote: Site selection is never going to please everyone, that's why varying it from year to year is the friendliest solution. Don't confuse "friendly" with "politically expedient". I've been to conferences that do it both ways, one static location and shaking-it-all-about, and I'd say the ones in a static location are generally more user-friendly, even if you have to travel quite a distance to attend. Why? The statically located conferences tend to simplify the amount of intellectual capital expended on minutiae: * Airport transportation: what's available, etc. * Parts of town to avoid. * Things to do after conference hours. * Availability and quality of restaurants. * Nearby miscellaneous amenities (mall, drugstore, etc.). * How to get from point A to point B. (general local geography) If you spend a week a year in Vegas over a couple of consecutive years, you'll rapidly become an expert at "How to attend a conference in Vegas." OTOH, if the conference hops from Vegas to Orlando to Kansas City, whatever experiential knowledge of the local area you picked up in the physical act of attending the conference has little transfer value. Jeff D. "Spud (Zeppelin)" Almeida Windsor, CT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
"Z" == Zeppelin Jeff writes: Z If you spend a week a year in Vegas over a couple of consecutive years, Z you'll rapidly become an expert at "How to attend a conference in Vegas." Good point. Let's move the conferences to Grand Cayman, then, since I just spent a week familiarizing myself with it ;-) And the weather there is excellent... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vivek Khera, Ph.D.Khera Communications, Inc. Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rockville, MD +1-301-545-6996 PGP MIME spoken herehttp://www.kciLink.com/home/khera/
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
"Vivek" == Vivek Khera [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Z" == Zeppelin Jeff writes: Z If you spend a week a year in Vegas over a couple of consecutive years, Z you'll rapidly become an expert at "How to attend a conference in Vegas." Vivek Good point. Let's move the conferences to Grand Cayman, then, since I Vivek just spent a week familiarizing myself with it ;-) And the weather Vivek there is excellent... Well, then I won't be able to go, since I'm still on probation, and can't get out of the US. sigh -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
Well, then I won't be able to go, since I'm still on probation, and can't get out of the US. sigh Down here in Miami could be a semi-tropical substitute ;-) my .02 Bill -- Bill Desjardins - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (USA) 305.205.8644 Unix/Network Administration - Perl/Mod_Perl/DB Development http://www.CarRacing.com - Powered by mod_perl! Free WebHosting for Race Tracks, Race Teams and Race Shops
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
Jeff, I think you are right about this when the conferences not only vary east coast/west coast, but vary locations on the east and west coast. However, the conferences that I've attended that have gone through one cycle of this are usually pretty good. eg SANS always seem to alternate East/West with East coast being in Baltimore's inner harbor and West Coast being Monterey Bay. I think the Usenix guys have a great deal of experience with alternating coasts, and I never had a real problem with it (at least from an attendee point of view). I would tend to think we could piggy back off of Usenix's knowledge of alternate sites to take care of this (or another equally qualified conference organization body). But on the other hand, I've attended conferences that also switch sites a lot in general and have found what you said to be true. Later, Gunther "Jeff D. 'Spud (Zeppelin)' Almeida" wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, John D Groenveld wrote: Site selection is never going to please everyone, that's why varying it from year to year is the friendliest solution. Don't confuse "friendly" with "politically expedient". I've been to conferences that do it both ways, one static location and shaking-it-all-about, and I'd say the ones in a static location are generally more user-friendly, even if you have to travel quite a distance to attend. Why? The statically located conferences tend to simplify the amount of intellectual capital expended on minutiae: * Airport transportation: what's available, etc. * Parts of town to avoid. * Things to do after conference hours. * Availability and quality of restaurants. * Nearby miscellaneous amenities (mall, drugstore, etc.). * How to get from point A to point B. (general local geography) If you spend a week a year in Vegas over a couple of consecutive years, you'll rapidly become an expert at "How to attend a conference in Vegas." OTOH, if the conference hops from Vegas to Orlando to Kansas City, whatever experiential knowledge of the local area you picked up in the physical act of attending the conference has little transfer value. Jeff D. "Spud (Zeppelin)" Almeida Windsor, CT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Stas Bekman wrote: First of all, why holding yet another conference, the answer is simple, we want mod_perl to be in the center of the event and not a side project. Think about Perl Conference -- mod_perl is just a little part of the Apache track. Think about ApacheCon -- mod_perl is again just a drop in a ocean. snip The rest are full tracks dedicated for each technology, so if I want to learn mod_perl I'd spend all the days listening to mod_perl speakers so when the conference is over I'll go back with a bag full of tricks and a very good push to get me going when I'll start coding myself. Having a dedicated track will allow to provide all the information that generally being skipped due to the lack of time. I like the idea of mod_perl being the center of attention. There are aspects of mod_perl in which I am very weak. I'm wondering if this will fit the bill, though. In this scenario, we will have a conference with only partial interest in mod_perl. With all of these other technologies, we will be able to bring in funding and support from some big names (possibly Sun, Allaire, etc), but we still only have a small piece of the pie. We will have, in effect, a cluster of conferences. Also, we will need space for each and every faction attending (a mod_perl conference room, a Cold Fusion conference room, a Java area, etc). Is this feasible? Will this solve the problem? I don't imagine a large amount of cooperation from competing vendors. Rebuttal? J. J. Horner Linux, Apache, Perl, Unix, Stronghold [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knoxlug.org System has been up: 8 days.
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
if you bring in all sorts of other technologies, how is this different than being part of apacheCon or Perl Conference? at least when I go to those (if i have time), almost everything else at the conference has some interest for me. i have only a modicum of interest in python, cold fusion and the like. either make a mod_perl ONLY conference or stay attached to ApacheCon or the Perl Conference. cliff rayman genwax.com "J. Horner" wrote: On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Stas Bekman wrote: First of all, why holding yet another conference, the answer is simple, we want mod_perl to be in the center of the event and not a side project. Think about Perl Conference -- mod_perl is just a little part of the Apache track. Think about ApacheCon -- mod_perl is again just a drop in a ocean. snip The rest are full tracks dedicated for each technology, so if I want to learn mod_perl I'd spend all the days listening to mod_perl speakers so when the conference is over I'll go back with a bag full of tricks and a very good push to get me going when I'll start coding myself. Having a dedicated track will allow to provide all the information that generally being skipped due to the lack of time. I like the idea of mod_perl being the center of attention. There are aspects of mod_perl in which I am very weak. I'm wondering if this will fit the bill, though. In this scenario, we will have a conference with only partial interest in mod_perl. With all of these other technologies, we will be able to bring in funding and support from some big names (possibly Sun, Allaire, etc), but we still only have a small piece of the pie. We will have, in effect, a cluster of conferences. Also, we will need space for each and every faction attending (a mod_perl conference room, a Cold Fusion conference room, a Java area, etc). Is this feasible? Will this solve the problem? I don't imagine a large amount of cooperation from competing vendors. Rebuttal? J. J. Horner Linux, Apache, Perl, Unix, Stronghold [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.knoxlug.org System has been up: 8 days.
Re: [RFC] holding a mod_perl conference
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Cliff Rayman wrote: if you bring in all sorts of other technologies, how is this different than being part of apacheCon or Perl Conference? at least when I go to those (if i have time), almost everything else at the conference has some interest for me. i have only a modicum of interest in python, cold fusion and the like. either make a mod_perl ONLY conference or stay attached to ApacheCon or the Perl Conference. I agree with Cliff. The idea was for a mod_perl ONLY confernece. Now the question is - is it possible, in demand, and/or profitable ? The YAPC conference at Carnegie Mellon was certainly quite a nice conference. No booths, etc., but just people getting together to present things and talk Perl. What about something like that? ------ Ken Williams Last Bastion of Euclidity [EMAIL PROTECTED]The Math Forum
