subject:"\[newbie\] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk\!"

On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 3:59 am, Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

 But, it's Christmas time, and Lanman is back.  That means it's a
 great day!  I can't think of a better list Christmas present.  Or a
 funnier one. ;)

Hi, Lanman.  I was glad to see you back too - and by the way there are 
quite a few Canucks around, I believe.

If you say the reply-to is a necessary though hopefully temporary 
evil, then we have to live with it.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 4:33 am, KS wrote:

 I, personnally am sick of people that think thay have the right rto
 decide what is a good question and what is not. 

There are enough people who don't fit into that category.  Just ignore 
those that do, and get on with life.  Let's drop this, for sure Joe 
will keep it going as long as anyone responds.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 5:54 am, Lanman wrote:

 Something curious to note here ( at least for me ), is that I find
 that most of my clients are eager to
 learn when you take the time to teach them a few things, and to
 explain something in plain English
 instead of Techno-Babble.

In truth, it's the techno-babble that mostly scares people off.  It 
takes time and effort to explain things without it.  Good luck to you 
on that, Lanman.  I know your explanations got me out of some real 
fixes when I was starting out.

The other problem, as you say elsewhere, is that of making the 
software switch.  In a recent thread Tango Echo pointed to 
http://linuxshop.ru/linuxbegin/win-lin-soft-en/#1 and wondered if we 
could do something like that on the TWiki (you do know about the 
TWiki, Lanman?  See my sig, if not.  I'm known as the list nag about 
it g). RL has been heavy here lately, and I'm going to be away 
almost all of the coming week, so I haven't time to get it started.  
What's needed is the start of a table on a TWiki page, to which we 
can add suggestions.  I would like to see two additional columns, one 
for where the app can be found, and the other noting which versions 
of Mdk it's available for.  Anyone volunteering to help us get 
started?  I'm sure many will add entries once the page gets going.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-07 Thread Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC)

Lanman wrote:
So, to make this easy on Joe, who has obviously become the List Nazi of the day, I will explain.

Istop explanation...

Since I have about 250 clients who rely on me to stay in contact with them, this was a
priority for me, at
least until my DNS server settings were updated with the new static IP address that I
rely on for business.
So whether or not you like it, that's the way it had to be.
.
Whilst I intend to agree with Joe on this with regards to netiquette, I
do not mind doing it for a short time and possibly having to resend some
emails to the list address as opposed to lanman. With the current slump
in world IT budgets, courtesy 9/11, and the huge unemployment rate, I
say lanman you keep your reply address as your email address, for a
while anyway, just to keep your clients happy.

I am sure he could circumvent this problem by using another email
address for his email list or having his own email server with two email
addresses. With 250 clients it should be affordable, but until he does
find a solution or Mandrake forcibly changes his message reply to
reflect the list he is replying to, I do not think it is too much for us
as list members to put up with for a little while.

In short lanman your reply to inability does annoy me, I am pretty sure
there is a workable solution to all parties concerned but i am willing
to put up with it for commerce sake.

Hylton Conacher - Licenced ex-Windows user
Registered Linux user # 229959 at http://counter.li.org
Using Linux Mandrake 9.1 with KDE 3.1

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-07 Thread JoeHill

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 07:44:43 +
Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Let's drop this, for sure Joe will keep it going as long as anyone responds.

Me??!! Lanman and Lyvim have been slagging me for hours now, and all I did was
question his use of reply-to settings!

For chrissakes, that psychopath threatened to *come to my house*!

This is fucking ridiculous, I get called bitch, I get laboriously and
thoroughly flamed, and *I'm* the one who gets criticised.

I've really had just about enough of this place. I step out of line an inch and
people are all over me. Lanman behaves like a raving madman and not a fuckin'
peep of protest.

Well, I'm not gonna do what Lyvim and Lanman want me to do, get all pissy and
run away, but I will never forget this. What applies for them, applies for me.
Fair is fair. From now on, if I say something someone doesn't like, well ya can
go stuff it.

-- 
JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++
Behind every great fortune is a crime.
-- Balzac

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-07 Thread Lanman

On 12/7/2003 at 8:23 AM JoeHill wrote:

Lanman and Lyvim have been slagging me for hours now, and all I
did
was question his use of reply-to settings! 

This is fucking ridiculous, I get called bitch, I get
laboriously and
thoroughly flamed, and *I'm* the one who gets criticised.

I've really had just about enough of this place. I step out of
line an
inch and people are all over me. Lanman behaves like a raving
madman and not a
fuckin' peep of protest.

Well, I'm not gonna do what Lyvim and Lanman want me to do, get
all pissy
and run away, but I will never forget this. What applies for them,
applies for
me. Fair is fair. From now on, if I say something someone doesn't
like, well
ya can go stuff it.

-- 
JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++
Behind every great fortune is a crime.
-- Balzac

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

Joe; Sometime's it's not what you say, it's the way you say it.
That's what get's me pissed off. 
This list is a community, which means it full of diverse opinions
and perspectives, but also full of 
different situatiuons. The problem I'm having with my email is
real, regardless of what your ISTOP
using friend is aware of. As I mentioned earlier, I have never used
a Reply-To address on this list.
Ever. I know why it shouldn't be used. But instead of taking that
at face value, your first thought was 
to check and see if I was lying or not, and that's why you checked
with someone you know who uses
ISTOP. 

When you found that someone else with the same ISP has never had
this problem, you immediately
jumped to the conclusion that you were right, that I was lying and
you had to prove it to the list. 
Rather than simply accepting that things are not always equal, you
immediately went on the attack. 
For what? What could this possibly solve? Was this some form of
gratification or validation of 
something? Perhaps an attempt to feel superior? I can only guess.

The question here is, why bother at all? Why make the effort to
disprove what I had to say about my 
situation? I wasn't using the Reply-To just for kicks! And I
certainly wasn't using it just so I could piss 
off Joe Hill ! 

Almost everyone else on the list responded with patience,
understanding, or humour about it, but they 
also offered suggestions and ideas. You didn't. That's what I mean
about what you say and how you say 
it.
   
Then you not only challenged what I have no control over, but also
insulted a friend - Lyvim, when I was 
trying to pay him a compliment! And a humourous compliment at that!
It was only a signature for Pete's 
sake!

And you wonder how this could get personal?   

What did you expect? A pat on the back, and a Well Done ? This
list operates like a club. It's about
people who enjoy Linux, and while they may not enjoy the problems
that crop up, they do enjoy solving 
them ! But it's also somewhat casual, and easy-going. Come to the
list and get the latest on current events,
the latest flame war ( which I'm sorry to say involves you and I -
again! ), or the latest horror story about 
the which corporation is trying to screw which other corporation. 

Very few of the list-members will base their life on what is said
or done on this list. They simply enjoy 
being part of a community to which they have something to
contribute. Yes, there are also others that 
come here for help. In most cases, they get the help they need, and
also offer to help others. That's 
also what this community is all about.

But you seem to have forgotten the Casual and Easy-Going part.
Sure there are Netiquette guidelines.
And they're good guidelines. But they're ONLY guidelines. They do
not form some sort of Bible which we
must bow down to. They are simply guidelines to good manners on the
list. They are not the rules by which 
a community polices itself. 
 
You seem to take pleasure in trying to throw these guidelines into
people's faces every chance you get. 
Is it any wonder that you come across like a control freak! No
offense intended, but perhaps you should 
try to understand how your actions and words might be interpreted
by others on the list before you click 
that Send/Recieve button. 

Then to add to this, you insult people by essentially calling them
liars, and putting them down. Can you
please explain why? At least if it was making you feel like you're
superior to others I'd understand why.
I wouldn't agree, but I'd understand.

How can you be surprised at all the attacks you get from something
like this? You're track record on this
list is what makes many people take you the wrong way. That's why
you get attacked. 

I'm trying to understand what the big deal is here with you, and
I'm not getting it. That's probably another 
aspect of this problem that we're having. I'd like to solve it so
that we can get on with things. So let's see
if we can find a common ground and move on with the important
issues, shall we?

And let's put things in

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-07 Thread JoeHill

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 10:14:05 -0500
Todd Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Life's too short to get all worked up over a couple of bozos.

Already done. But thanks.

-- 
JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++
I have the South in front of me and the bankers behind me -- and for my
country, I fear the bankers most.-- Abraham Lincoln

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 1:27 pm, Lanman wrote:

 You might be surprised to learn how many people think computers are
 intelligent, simply because
 they are so hard to learn ! I get that very often ! Once I explain
 that a significant amount of the
 complexity is due to the fact that computers are essentially
 stupid, things usually go better!

I'll own that for a long time I told people that computers were 
logical, and could not do whatever it was that was totally illogical.  
Eventually I came to see that we had passed a point of complexity at 
which apparently illogical things do happen because of interactions 
that we may be totally ignorant or unaware of.  Now I just say that 
they are supposed to be logical, but accompany it with a wry grin.

 I've recently hired someone who may be able to help with the Twiki
 pages. He actually starts
 tomorrow morning, and I'm thinking that this would be a good
 exercise for him. I know Tango
 Echo personally, so I'll contact him to get things started. Chances
 are he's already seeing this
 post anyways.

I'm going to be away for a few days, but I'll look forward to seeing 
things appearing soon g  Another ally is always welcome.

 By the by, I've already turned off the Reply-To. Assuming that me
 DNS gets fully propogated by
 tomorrow, I'll be back on the list with my original email account.

Sounds good.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 1:23 pm, JoeHill wrote:

 I've really had just about enough of this place. I step out of line
 an inch and people are all over me. Lanman behaves like a raving
 madman and not a fuckin' peep of protest.

Joe, first, you never stop out of line an inch.  When you step out it 
is always the full nine yards.  It's no coincidence that whenever a 
thread like this gets going you are always one half of it.  Calm it, 
now.  You have a lot to offer, and your reputation for this sort of 
thing means that your genuine offerings are undervalued.  

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-07 Thread robin

Anne Wilson wrote:
On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 5:54 am, Lanman wrote:

Something curious to note here ( at least for me ), is that I find
that most of my clients are eager to
learn when you take the time to teach them a few things, and to
explain something in plain English
instead of Techno-Babble.
In truth, it's the techno-babble that mostly scares people off.  It 
takes time and effort to explain things without it.  Good luck to you 
on that, Lanman.  I know your explanations got me out of some real 
fixes when I was starting out.
Very true, and the problem is that once you've been messing with Linux 
for a while, you tend to forget what is technobabble and what isn't.  As 
the semi-official techie for our office, I'm always answering questions 
with lines like Just FTP it to the server.  Then the blank stare 
reminds me that the person doesn't know what FTP or server mean.

Sir Robin

--
Certitude is possible for those who only own one encyclopedia.
- Robert Anton Wilson
Robin Turner
IDMYO
Bilkent Univeritesi
Ankara 06533
Turkey
www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-07 Thread robin

Anne Wilson wrote:
On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 1:27 pm, Lanman wrote:

You might be surprised to learn how many people think computers are
intelligent, simply because
they are so hard to learn ! I get that very often ! Once I explain
that a significant amount of the
complexity is due to the fact that computers are essentially
stupid, things usually go better!
I'll own that for a long time I told people that computers were 
logical, and could not do whatever it was that was totally illogical.  
Eventually I came to see that we had passed a point of complexity at 
which apparently illogical things do happen because of interactions 
that we may be totally ignorant or unaware of.  Now I just say that 
they are supposed to be logical, but accompany it with a wry grin.
In situations like this, I go for the Dr. McCoy appraoch: It's logic, 
captain, but not as we know it.

Sir Robin

--
Certitude is possible for those who only own one encyclopedia.
- Robert Anton Wilson
Robin Turner
IDMYO
Bilkent Univeritesi
Ankara 06533
Turkey
www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-07 Thread Lanman

On 12/7/2003 at 10:25 PM robin wrote:

Very true, and the problem is that once you've been messing with
Linux 
for a while, you tend to forget what is technobabble and what
isn't.  As 
the semi-official techie for our office, I'm always answering
questions 
with lines like Just FTP it to the server.  Then the blank stare

reminds me that the person doesn't know what FTP or server
mean.

Sir Robin

Robin Turner

www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***
I hate it when that happens! LOL!

Lanman



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 8:25 pm, robin wrote:
 Anne Wilson wrote:
  On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 5:54 am, Lanman wrote:
 Something curious to note here ( at least for me ), is that I
  find that most of my clients are eager to
 learn when you take the time to teach them a few things, and to
 explain something in plain English
 instead of Techno-Babble.
 
  In truth, it's the techno-babble that mostly scares people off. 
  It takes time and effort to explain things without it.  Good luck
  to you on that, Lanman.  I know your explanations got me out of
  some real fixes when I was starting out.

 Very true, and the problem is that once you've been messing with
 Linux for a while, you tend to forget what is technobabble and what
 isn't.  As the semi-official techie for our office, I'm always
 answering questions with lines like Just FTP it to the server. 
 Then the blank stare reminds me that the person doesn't know what
 FTP or server mean.

LOL - I was troubleshooting my next door neighbour's box a few days 
ago, and chatting nonchalantly about what I was doing, when he said 
'I just love it when you talk dirty!'

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-07 Thread Lanman

Eric; Glad to be back. Not to worry about tarnishing. It was
obvious that you were trying to help.

Thanks again.
Lanman


*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 12/7/2003 at 5:31 PM Eric Huff wrote:

 Hey Eric; Thanks for the suggestions, instead of trying to
 disprove what's what. I honestly hadn't thought of that. Seems I
 was Pre-Occupied with the Joe-man! I'm only waiting for my new
 static IP to be propogated to the main DNS servers, and I think
 it's almost there.
 
 I'll remove the Reply-To for the rest of the weekend, and see
how
 it goes. Thanks for making a suggestion in a positive manner.

Hey Lanman,

I'm glad the tension of the thread didn't tarnish your
interpretation of my email.

I try my best never to sound mad or arrogant in an email, but
ascii
sometimes fails us.

Anyway, welcome back to the list!

eric


PS (this is offlist, since i think the thread itself has gone on
long enough...)




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

Hey Lee ! How goes it? Whaddya mean Solve something ? Hell,..I already solved the 
square root
of PI ! What else do you want? Grin! Oh, yeah, and I also figured out the meaning of 
Life ! It didn't
take quite as long as PI, but I can now cross that off my list of things to do ! 
Grin!

Lanman

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 12/6/2003 at 8:09 AM Lee Wiggers wrote:

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 07:55:27 -0500
JoeHill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 07:43:30 -0500
 Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Well Gang ! After a short hiatus while I dumped a crappy ISP,
  I'm back and ready to,..um, ...er,..
  read emails, answer emails, cause and solve problems, and all
  the other things I normally do !
 
  Grin!  ! Grin !
 
  Miss me? Hah ! Thought not! But things were probably getting too
  quiet in here anyway !
  HHHmmm, think I'll send some emails in HTML! Yeah! And I think
  it's high time to steal threads,
  and, and, Oh, the hell with it !
 
  I'm back. Yeah!

 For starters, could you get rid of the reply-to?

 http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/MandrakeMailingListEtiquette

 ...and as far as Lyvim, that would be *growing down*... ;-)

 --
 JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813
 Registered Linux user #282046
 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
 +++
 One of the most dangerous errors of our time is the belief that
 human beings are uniquely violent animals, barely restrained from
 committing atrocities on each other by the constraints of ethics,
 religion, and the state.-- Eric S. Raymond


Don't just sit there.Solve something.

Lee

--
User #223705 Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 08:12:51 -0500
Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I don't see this as a problem though, since both email addresses are in fact
 mine. The reply-to address
 is simply an alias which is capable of bypassing the filters. In other
 words, I can't use it as my primary
 account, only as a reply-to addy to bypass the filters.

That's all well and good that *you* don't see it as a problem, unfortunately it
causes headaches on the list, so either remove it or expect some headaches of
your own.

-- 
JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++
He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is
mightier still.-- Lao Tsu

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

Not a problem Joe! I stocked up on Tylenol before rejoining the list ! I expect that 
within a week or so
most of my contacts will have the new address and all will be solved. In the meantime, 
I'll just make
sure that when someone does it to me, I'll use a previous post in the thread to 
reply-to.

By the way, nice try. A little obvious, but nice try!

Lanman

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 12/6/2003 at 7:55 AM JoeHill wrote:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 07:43:30 -0500
Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Well Gang ! After a short hiatus while I dumped a crappy ISP, I'm back
and
 ready to,..um, ...er,..
 read emails, answer emails, cause and solve problems, and all the other
things
 I normally do !

 Grin!  ! Grin !

 Miss me? Hah ! Thought not! But things were probably getting too quiet
in here
 anyway !
 HHHmmm, think I'll send some emails in HTML! Yeah! And I think it's high
time
 to steal threads,
 and, and, Oh, the hell with it !

 I'm back. Yeah!

For starters, could you get rid of the reply-to?

http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/MandrakeMailingListEtiquette

...and as far as Lyvim, that would be *growing down*... ;-)

--
JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++
One of the most dangerous errors of our time is the belief that human
beings
are uniquely violent animals, barely restrained from committing atrocities
on
each other by the constraints of ethics, religion, and the state.-- Eric
S.
Raymond


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-06 Thread Ronald J. Hall

On Saturday 06 December 2003 07:55 am, JoeHill wrote:

Jo  ...and as far as Lyvim, that would be *growing down*... ;-)
Jo

You're just mad 'cause you lost too many arguments to him! grin

-- 

   /\
 DarkLord
   \/


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

LOL! LOL!

Lanman

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 12/6/2003 at 8:58 AM Ronald J. Hall wrote:

On Saturday 06 December 2003 07:55 am, JoeHill wrote:

Jo  ...and as far as Lyvim, that would be *growing down*... ;-)
Jo

You're just mad 'cause you lost too many arguments to him! grin

--

   /\

 DarkLord
   \/




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

Done and Done! Man, you are t funny! I'm putting you into my will !
LOL!

Lanman

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 12/6/2003 at 9:00 AM Ronald J. Hall wrote:

On Saturday 06 December 2003 08:18 am, Lanman wrote:
La  Hey Lee ! How goes it? Whaddya mean Solve something ? Hell,..I
already
 solved the square root La  of PI ! What else do you want? Grin! Oh,
yeah,
 and I also figured out the meaning of Life ! It didn't La  take quite as
 long as PI, but I can now cross that off my list of things to do !
Grin!
 La
La  Lanman

Quick, slap a patent/copyright/copyleft on it! (Before MS tries!) :-)

--

   /\

 DarkLord
   \/




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-06 Thread Eric Huff

 For starters, could you get rid of the reply-to?
 
  http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/MandrakeMailingListEtiquette

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 08:23:55 -0500
Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] top posted:

  That's all well and good that *you* don't see it as a problem,
  unfortunately it causes headaches on the list, so either remove
  it or expect some headaches of your own.

 Not a problem Joe! I stocked up on Tylenol before rejoining the
 list ! I expect that within a week or so most of my contacts will
 have the new address and all will be solved. In the meantime, I'll
 just make sure that when someone does it to me, I'll use a
 previous post in the thread to reply-to.

Wow! Top posting *and* reply-to being set, all in the same email. 
:)

But, in all seriousness, the reply-to screws up people on mailingg
lists.  If your isp makes you fill it in, is there anyway you could
set it to whatever list you are posting to?

Otherwise, every time someone replies to a post from you, they will
have to remember to reply-all, or to reply-list. Usually, though,
they will forget and get frustrated...

eric

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-06 Thread Charlie Mahan

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Saturday 06 December 2003 5:43 am, Lanman wrote:
 Well Gang ! After a short hiatus while I dumped a crappy ISP, I'm back and
 ready to,..um, ...er,.. read emails, answer emails, cause and solve
 problems, and all the other things I normally do !

 Grin!  ! Grin !

 Miss me? Hah ! Thought not! But things were probably getting too quiet in
 here anyway ! HHHmmm, think I'll send some emails in HTML! Yeah! And I
 think it's high time to steal threads, and, and, Oh, the hell with it !

 I'm back. Yeah!

Welcome back, and yeah; I did miss ya!

 Lanman
 ( When I grow up, I wanna be just like Lyvim! But I'm not in a hurry! )

Careful what you wish for Lanman, you just might get it. EG

Charlie
- --
Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org
Mandrake Linux release 9.2 (FiveStar) for i586 kernel 2.4.22-21mdk
09:45:36 up 2 days, 12:54, 1 user, load average: 0.58, 0.20, 0.10
Truth never comes into the world but like a bastard, to the ignominy
of him that brought her birth.
-- Milton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/0gj5ZqvqlrLPr5YRApB/AJ41DslpiMbriwDzY5q9ipBDpWwKQgCeJd7n
/O9JIxZF8Yt4OW/keY03gA0=
=mFm8
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 08:26:48 -0800
Eric Huff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 But, in all seriousness, the reply-to screws up people on mailingg
 lists.  If your isp makes you fill it in, is there anyway you could
 set it to whatever list you are posting to?

I just communicated with another IStop user, there is no such requirement, and 
they've never encountered anything like what lanman is referring to.

-- 
JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++
Where the state begins, individual liberty ceases, and vice versa.
-- Bakunin

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-06 Thread Brandon Erik Bertelsen

Whoa... your doing homework... 'some' people are really anal about the 
reply-to settings. Deal, I look before I post so should you ;) If the 
guy says he can't do it, HE CAN'T DO IT stop harrasing the poor man.

JoeHill wrote:

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 08:26:48 -0800
Eric Huff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 

But, in all seriousness, the reply-to screws up people on mailingg
lists.  If your isp makes you fill it in, is there anyway you could
set it to whatever list you are posting to?
   

I just communicated with another IStop user, there is no such requirement, and 
they've never encountered anything like what lanman is referring to.

 



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
 




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

Well it's nice to know that some things haven't changed in the short time I've been 
away.
There's a whole bunch of great people on this list, and then there's Joe Hill.
There's a bunch of people who know what they're talking about, and then there's Joe 
Hill.
There a LOT of people who know something about email and how it works, and then 
there's Joe Hill.

Are we seeing a pattern here?

So, to make this easy on Joe, who has obviously become the List Nazi of the day, I 
will explain.

Istop uses 2 sets of email accounts. the usual one is [EMAIL PROTECTED] and for a lot 
of users, it's
probably just great. However, if you attempt to send an email to someone on a domain 
that has been
blacklisted, or whose account, or the Class A or Class B subnet they belong to has a 
reputation for
sending SPAM, Istop has another bunch of email accounts.

These other accounts are Aliases ( as in not real, Joe ) and use an aliased domain 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
This allows users to set a Reply-To address which will by pass the Anti-Spam system at 
Istop.

Since I have about 250 clients who rely on me to stay in contact with them, this was a 
priority for me, at
least until my DNS server settings were updated with the new static IP address that I 
rely on for business.

So whether or not you like it, that's the way it had to be Joe. No offense to anyone 
else on the list, but my
responsibility to my clients comes first, and so does making a living. If you can't 
stand it Joe, Too Bad.

You seem to have about as much understanding and compassion as the stuff I leave in 
the toilet bowl.

So, you managed to contact someone who doesn't have my problem? Yippee for them Joe!

But ask yourself a question. Is this person located in Toronto or Ottawa? Istop uses 
two completely
different set of servers for the two cities. Since I'm in Montreal, my account is on 
the Ottawa servers.
Could be that there's a different set up in the two cities, or your friend hasn't sent 
emails to anyone inside
a blacklist zone.

Hopefully, some of this will sink in Joe. But I'm done being patient with you. I'll be 
in Toronto in a few weeks for
some business, and I'd be tickled pink to run into you in a dark alley ! Enough of 
your whining and complaining!
Either fish or cut bait, OK? Let's cut to the chase and end this bullshit you seem to 
like to propogate.

I'm fed up with your crap Joe. The next time you challenge me, you'd better be ready 
to dance BITCH! For your
sake your name and number better not be in the phone book Pal. Once again you made a 
bad choice. I don't
sit around the house dreaming this shit up. But I wish I had kept the email I received 
from Istop so I could forward
it to you and shove it down your throat.

In case the handle didn't give it away, I do networks. I've done networks. Hundreds of 
them. I know what's what,
and I obviously know a hell of a lot more than you do when it comes to this kind of 
situation. When an email server
responds to me and tells me what I can't do and what workarounds there are, I tend to 
believe it. When the ISP
confirms it, I tend to go along and cooperate.

But you'll notice that this was not a permanent condition, as I had mentioned in my 
email, and that it was short
term at the worst. So, while I understand that it's a nuisance, and while I've never 
done it before in all the years
I've belonged to this list ( under one handle or another ), and while I certainly 
appreciate the reasons why it
could be annoying to the list members, I also notice that, once agin, it's only Joe 
Hill who makes an issue, and tries
to get the last word in. Give it a rest man.

Joe - you're obviously a control freak. Your domain name says it all. 
www.orderinchaos.org

But try to learn the difference between the things you can control, and the things you 
can't. One the day that
someone puts you in charge of the Mandrake email servers ( and I honestly can't see 
that happening ! ), you
can do whatever you want. Until then Give It A Rest. I strongly suggest you double 
the dosage on the
Valium or Quaaludes or whatever you're on, but mellow out OK?

I apologise to all the other list members for my rant, but I've had enough of this 
asshole coming across like he's
Holier Than Thou and convinced he's got to prove everyone else wrong no matter what! 
Enough ! Get a life,
get a wife, get a dog, but get one soon!

I was hoping that things would improve while I was away. I see they haven't ! Is it 
any wonder why Linux isn't as
popular as it should be?

Lanman

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 12/6/2003 at 4:56 PM JoeHill wrote:

and then when someone says they can't post in anything but HTML, or
can't
set their mailer to wrap under 80 columns, with some half-baked excuse,
we'll
just forget about the guidelines we're all supposed to follow, and make
exceptions for everybody.

u, nope.

the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one.

and in this case, there is no need.

--
JoeHill ++ ICQ #

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

Hey Eric; Thanks for the suggestions, instead of trying to disprove what's what. I 
honestly hadn't
thought of that. Seems I was Pre-Occupied with the Joe-man! I'm only waiting for my 
new static
IP to be propogated to the main DNS servers, and I think it's almost there.

I'll remove the Reply-To for the rest of the weekend, and see how it goes. Thanks for 
making a
suggestion in a positive manner.

Lanman

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 12/6/2003 at 8:26 AM Eric Huff wrote:
Wow! Top posting *and* reply-to being set, all in the same email.
But, in all seriousness, the reply-to screws up people on mailingg
lists.  If your isp makes you fill it in, is there anyway you could
set it to whatever list you are posting to?

Otherwise, every time someone replies to a post from you, they will
have to remember to reply-all, or to reply-list. Usually, though,
they will forget and get frustrated...

eric


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

Hey Carroll; Once again a list member comes thru with an idea, instead of trying to 
debase someone.
Good idea. I'll certainly take it under advisement!

Thanks

Lanman

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 12/6/2003 at 7:19 PM Carroll Grigsby wrote:

On Saturday 06 December 2003 01:54 pm, Brandon Erik Bertelsen wrote:
 Whoa... your doing homework... 'some' people are really anal about the
 reply-to settings. Deal, I look before I post so should you ;) If the
 guy says he can't do it, HE CAN'T DO IT stop harrasing the poor man.

Users of KMail can avoid this aggravation by taking advantage of its Reply
to
List feature that ignores improper Reply To settings. It can be accessed
two
ways:
1. Press the letter L.
2. Add an icon to the toolbar by right clicking on the toolbar, select
Configure Toolbars and get yet another spiffy icon.
Either way, you get a nice properly-addressed window to which you can
append
your BOTTOM POSTED reply.

-- cmg



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-06 Thread robin

 On 12/6/2003 at 7:19 PM Carroll Grigsby wrote:


On Saturday 06 December 2003 01:54 pm, Brandon Erik Bertelsen wrote:

Whoa... your doing homework... 'some' people are really anal about the
reply-to settings. Deal, I look before I post so should you ;) If the
guy says he can't do it, HE CAN'T DO IT stop harrasing the poor man.

Users of KMail can avoid this aggravation by taking advantage of its 
Reply
to
List feature that ignores improper Reply To settings. It can be accessed
two
ways:
1. Press the letter L.
2. Add an icon to the toolbar by right clicking on the toolbar, select
Configure Toolbars and get yet another spiffy icon.
Either way, you get a nice properly-addressed window to which you can
append
your BOTTOM POSTED reply.

-- cmg



Lanman top-posted:
Hey Carroll; Once again a list member comes thru with an idea, instead of trying to 
debase someone.
Good idea. I'll certainly take it under advisement!
I hope that includes the part about bottom-posting ;-)

Sir Robin

--
Certitude is possible for those who only own one encyclopedia.
- Robert Anton Wilson
Robin Turner
IDMYO
Bilkent Univeritesi
Ankara 06533
Turkey
www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-06 Thread Todd Slater

On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 07:21:10PM -0500, Lanman wrote:
 Well it's nice to know that some things haven't changed in the short time I've been 
 away.

Yes, you're still as annoying as ever. I plonked you once, but you got a
new addy!
Z
Z
Z
Z
Z
Z
Z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
z
*plonk*


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

Welcome back Lanman!  And a hearty Merry Christmas to you!  So good to
see you back on the lists.  I do a scan from time to time to see what's
going on, even if RL keeps me away alot here recently.  This is one of
those times. :)

Your wit and humor is irreplaceable and always entertaining.  Glad to
see you here and sorry to see that some list Nazi guards have left the
concentration camps to cause difficulties.  I understand exactly what
you are saying, so no prob, don't sweat it.  Don't worry about
joedill/haywiremac, he's a newb that wants everyone to think he's an old
timer, which he's not; he's just some recently-arrived troll that has
been looking for a home and has managed to keep his fat mouth shut for a
short time, only by way of extreme duress.  Don't expect that trend to
continue, especially in light of current events on this thread.

But, it's Christmas time, and Lanman is back.  That means it's a great
day!  I can't think of a better list Christmas present.  Or a funnier
one. ;)


On Sat, 2003-12-06 at 19:21, Lanman wrote:
 Well it's nice to know that some things haven't changed in the short
 time I've been away.
 There's a whole bunch of great people on this list, and then there's
 Joe Hill.
 There's a bunch of people who know what they're talking about, and
 then there's Joe Hill.
 There a LOT of people who know something about email and how it works,
 and then there's Joe Hill.
 
 Are we seeing a pattern here?
 
 So, to make this easy on Joe, who has obviously become the List Nazi
 of the day, I will explain.
 
 Istop uses 2 sets of email accounts. the usual one is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 and for a lot of users, it's
 probably just great. However, if you attempt to send an email to
 someone on a domain that has been
 blacklisted, or whose account, or the Class A or Class B subnet they
 belong to has a reputation for
 sending SPAM, Istop has another bunch of email accounts.
 
 These other accounts are Aliases ( as in not real, Joe ) and use an
 aliased domain [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 This allows users to set a Reply-To address which will by pass the
 Anti-Spam system at Istop.
 
 Since I have about 250 clients who rely on me to stay in contact with
 them, this was a priority for me, at
 least until my DNS server settings were updated with the new static IP
 address that I rely on for business.
 
 So whether or not you like it, that's the way it had to be Joe. No
 offense to anyone else on the list, but my
 responsibility to my clients comes first, and so does making a living.
 If you can't stand it Joe, Too Bad.
 
 You seem to have about as much understanding and compassion as the
 stuff I leave in the toilet bowl.
 
 So, you managed to contact someone who doesn't have my problem? Yippee
 for them Joe!
 
 But ask yourself a question. Is this person located in Toronto or
 Ottawa? Istop uses two completely
 different set of servers for the two cities. Since I'm in Montreal, my
 account is on the Ottawa servers.
 Could be that there's a different set up in the two cities, or your
 friend hasn't sent emails to anyone inside
 a blacklist zone.
 
 Hopefully, some of this will sink in Joe. But I'm done being patient
 with you. I'll be in Toronto in a few weeks for
 some business, and I'd be tickled pink to run into you in a dark alley
 ! Enough of your whining and complaining!
 Either fish or cut bait, OK? Let's cut to the chase and end this
 bullshit you seem to like to propogate.
 
 I'm fed up with your crap Joe. The next time you challenge me, you'd
 better be ready to dance BITCH! For your
 sake your name and number better not be in the phone book Pal. Once
 again you made a bad choice. I don't
 sit around the house dreaming this shit up. But I wish I had kept the
 email I received from Istop so I could forward
 it to you and shove it down your throat.
 
 In case the handle didn't give it away, I do networks. I've done
 networks. Hundreds of them. I know what's what,
 and I obviously know a hell of a lot more than you do when it comes to
 this kind of situation. When an email server
 responds to me and tells me what I can't do and what workarounds there
 are, I tend to believe it. When the ISP
 confirms it, I tend to go along and cooperate.
 
 But you'll notice that this was not a permanent condition, as I had
 mentioned in my email, and that it was short
 term at the worst. So, while I understand that it's a nuisance, and
 while I've never done it before in all the years
 I've belonged to this list ( under one handle or another ), and while
 I certainly appreciate the reasons why it
 could be annoying to the list members, I also notice that, once agin,
 it's only Joe Hill who makes an issue, and tries
 to get the last word in. Give it a rest man.
 
 Joe - you're obviously a control freak. Your domain name says it all.
 www.orderinchaos.org
 
 But try to learn the difference between the things you can control,
 and the things you can't. One the day that
 someone puts you in charge of the Mandrake email

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On Sat, 2003-12-06 at 13:54, Brandon Erik Bertelsen wrote:
 Whoa... your doing homework... 'some' people are really anal about the 
 reply-to settings. Deal, I look before I post so should you ;) If the 
 guy says he can't do it, HE CAN'T DO IT stop harrasing the poor man.
 

Exactly.  However there is a reason Lanman was targeted in the first
place, and it had nothing to do with technical issues, that was merely a
trojan horse.

LX




 JoeHill wrote:
 
 On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 08:26:48 -0800
 Eric Huff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   
 
 But, in all seriousness, the reply-to screws up people on mailingg
 lists.  If your isp makes you fill it in, is there anyway you could
 set it to whatever list you are posting to?
 
 
 
 I just communicated with another IStop user, there is no such requirement, and 
 they've never encountered anything like what lanman is referring to.
 
   
 
LX
-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
Filter That, Bitch! --Lanman, MDK Newbie List



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-06 Thread Chargers

Too bad proper etiquitte  couldn't be  ' if you don't have any thing 
positive or helpful to say, DONT SAY ANYTHING'
Ignorant responses is the reason I am only a viewer anfd not a 
participant 99.9 % of the time. :-(

Eric Huff said the following, On 06/12/2003 11:26 AM:

For starters, could you get rid of the reply-to?

http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/MandrakeMailingListEtiquette
 

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 08:23:55 -0500
Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] top posted:
 

That's all well and good that *you* don't see it as a problem,
unfortunately it causes headaches on the list, so either remove
it or expect some headaches of your own.
 

 

Not a problem Joe! I stocked up on Tylenol before rejoining the
list ! I expect that within a week or so most of my contacts will
have the new address and all will be solved. In the meantime, I'll
just make sure that when someone does it to me, I'll use a
previous post in the thread to reply-to.
   

Wow! Top posting *and* reply-to being set, all in the same email. 
:)

But, in all seriousness, the reply-to screws up people on mailingg
lists.  If your isp makes you fill it in, is there anyway you could
set it to whatever list you are posting to?
Otherwise, every time someone replies to a post from you, they will
have to remember to reply-all, or to reply-list. Usually, though,
they will forget and get frustrated...
eric

 



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
 



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On 06 Dec 2003 22:59:07 -0500
Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Don't worry about  joedill/haywiremac, he's a newb that wants everyone to
 think he's an old timer, which he's not; he's just some recently-arrived troll
 that has been looking for a home and has managed to keep his fat mouth shut
 for a short time, only by way of extreme duress.

So where are Vincent, James, et al, now?

I guess it's okay to trash ol' Joe, but not WoBo, no? I guess this is exactly
the hypocrisy I was talking about way back when.

And you've contributed *what* lately, Lyvim? LOL!

-- 
JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++
There are three side effects of acid: enhanced long-term memory, decreased
short-term memory, and I forget the third.-- Timothy Leary

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On 06 Dec 2003 22:59:07 -0500
Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I'm fed up with your crap Joe. The next time you challenge me, you'd
  better be ready to dance BITCH! For your
  sake your name and number better not be in the phone book Pal. Once
  again you made a bad choice. I don't
  sit around the house dreaming this shit up. But I wish I had kept the
  email I received from Istop so I could forward
  it to you and shove it down your throat.

This will be forwarded to the local authorities. You just crossed the line.

-- 
JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++
The more laws and order are made prominent, the more thieves and robbers there
will be.-- Lao Tsu

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

Big Deal! I'm shaking in my boots! So much for putting your money where your mouth is. 
Put your
control fetish back in the closet, and let's get back to what this list is all about. 
I'll send you the
phone number for the local authorities in a little while, and we'll see where this 
leads to.

I'll put on the coffee, and order up a bunch of whole wheat muffins - they don't eat 
donuts anymore!

Are we done now? Or does this go on like the last time?

Lanman

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 12/6/2003 at 11:08 PM JoeHill wrote:

On 06 Dec 2003 22:59:07 -0500
Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I'm fed up with your crap Joe. The next time you challenge me, you'd
  better be ready to dance BITCH! For your
  sake your name and number better not be in the phone book Pal. Once
  again you made a bad choice. I don't
  sit around the house dreaming this shit up. But I wish I had kept the
  email I received from Istop so I could forward
  it to you and shove it down your throat.

This will be forwarded to the local authorities. You just crossed the line.

--
JoeHill ++ ICQ # 280779813
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++
The more laws and order are made prominent, the more thieves and robbers
there
will be.-- Lao Tsu


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-06 Thread KS

So if you don't contribute get of of the newsgroup?
If this is an elite group, let me know and I'm gone.
There is no reason for people respond to messages with 'prick' ish
replys. If you don't want to answer somebody's question, don't..
Somebody who is sympathetic to the individual's problem wil probably
be very willing to reply.  People talk about proper etiquette in list
but in my observation, more bandwidth is wasted by too many people
jumping in to knock peple down, instead of helping.
This is not directed at an individual reponse, but at this and other
general threads.


JoeHill said the following, On 06/12/2003 11:06 PM:

On 06 Dec 2003 22:59:07 -0500
Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Don't worry about  joedill/haywiremac, he's a newb that wants everyone to
think he's an old timer, which he's not; he's just some 
recently-arrived troll
that has been looking for a home and has managed to keep his fat 
mouth shut
for a short time, only by way of extreme duress.


So where are Vincent, James, et al, now?

I guess it's okay to trash ol' Joe, but not WoBo, no? I guess this is 
exactly
the hypocrisy I was talking about way back when.

And you've contributed *what* lately, Lyvim? LOL!


--

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On Sat, 2003-12-06 at 07:43, Lanman wrote:
 Well Gang ! After a short hiatus while I dumped a crappy ISP, I'm back and ready 
 to,..um, ...er,..
 read emails, answer emails, cause and solve problems, and all the other things I 
 normally do !
 
 Grin!  ! Grin !
 
 Miss me? Hah ! Thought not! But things were probably getting too quiet in here 
 anyway !
 HHHmmm, think I'll send some emails in HTML! Yeah! And I think it's high time to 
 steal threads,
 and, and, Oh, the hell with it !
 
 I'm back. Yeah!
 
 Lanman
 ( When I grow up, I wanna be just like Lyvim! But I'm not in a hurry! )
 


Welcome back, Lanman!  Merry Christmas!  And needless to say, I'm a big
fan of your sig. ;)  Watch out tho, it might make you a dartboard. 
grin!   Oh yea, that's right, it already has!  But wait a minute...I
just remembered...we don't give a sh*te!

Good to see your impeccable brand of humor is still in full force!  I
need to get back here more.  Could you add an extra hour to the 24 hour
day for me?  ;)

Take care --

LX

-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
Filter That, Bitch! --Lanman, MDK Newbie List



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-06 Thread KS

Bravo Joe,
You do what you have  to do.
I, personnally am sick of people that think thay have the right rto
decide what is a good question and what is not. They obviously believe
that they know  the base knowledge level is, for a person to be able
to switch from say, wondows linux. Ther eare a lot of people in the
world that don';t work with computers in their day job but do it as a
hobby.
JoeHill said the following, On 06/12/2003 11:08 PM:

On 06 Dec 2003 22:59:07 -0500
Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I'm fed up with your crap Joe. The next time you challenge me, you'd
better be ready to dance BITCH! For your
sake your name and number better not be in the phone book Pal. Once
again you made a bad choice. I don't
sit around the house dreaming this shit up. But I wish I had kept the
email I received from Istop so I could forward
it to you and shove it down your throat.


This will be forwarded to the local authorities. You just crossed the 
line.


--

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

Another Canadian on the list eh? Welcome to the fray! Of course, if
you've been here a long time 
already please disregard this emai. But still nice to see another
Canuck on board !

Lanman

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 12/6/2003 at 11:23 PM KS wrote:

So if you don't contribute get of of the newsgroup?
If this is an elite group, let me know and I'm gone.
There is no reason for people respond to messages with 'prick' ish
replys. If you don't want to answer somebody's question, don't..
Somebody who is sympathetic to the individual's problem wil
probably
be very willing to reply.  People talk about proper etiquette in
list
but in my observation, more bandwidth is wasted by too many people
jumping in to knock peple down, instead of helping.
This is not directed at an individual reponse, but at this and
other
general threads.



JoeHill said the following, On 06/12/2003 11:06 PM:

 On 06 Dec 2003 22:59:07 -0500
 Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Don't worry about  joedill/haywiremac, he's a newb that wants
everyone
to
 think he's an old timer, which he's not; he's just some 
recently-arrived troll
 that has been looking for a home and has managed to keep his
fat 
mouth shut
 for a short time, only by way of extreme duress.
 
 
 So where are Vincent, James, et al, now?
 
 I guess it's okay to trash ol' Joe, but not WoBo, no? I guess
this is 
exactly
 the hypocrisy I was talking about way back when.
 
 And you've contributed *what* lately, Lyvim? LOL!
 
 

---
---
 
 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
 Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-06 Thread KS

Been watching for a few years, but have never been willing to subject
myself to a public stoning.
I've been checking out Debian and its lists, it seems to be more
friendly. Mandrake, while being a good distro has started to turn me
off with their actions before I  was willing to get  a CLUB 
membership,...too bad. :-(

Lanman said the following, On 06/12/2003 11:41 PM:

Another Canadian on the list eh? Welcome to the fray! Of course, if
you've been here a long time
already please disregard this emai. But still nice to see another
Canuck on board !

Lanman

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 12/6/2003 at 11:23 PM KS wrote:

So if you don't contribute get of of the newsgroup?
If this is an elite group, let me know and I'm gone.
There is no reason for people respond to messages with 'prick' ish
replys. If you don't want to answer somebody's question, don't..
Somebody who is sympathetic to the individual's problem wil

probably

be very willing to reply.  People talk about proper etiquette in

list

but in my observation, more bandwidth is wasted by too many people
jumping in to knock peple down, instead of helping.
This is not directed at an individual reponse, but at this and

other

general threads.



JoeHill said the following, On 06/12/2003 11:06 PM:

On 06 Dec 2003 22:59:07 -0500
Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Don't worry about  joedill/haywiremac, he's a newb that wants

everyone

to

think he's an old timer, which he's not; he's just some

recently-arrived troll

that has been looking for a home and has managed to keep his

fat

mouth shut

for a short time, only by way of extreme duress.


So where are Vincent, James, et al, now?

I guess it's okay to trash ol' Joe, but not WoBo, no? I guess

this is

exactly

the hypocrisy I was talking about way back when.

And you've contributed *what* lately, Lyvim? LOL!


---

---

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com






--

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

Not to worry KS ! Guys like you and I are always welcome. Well, you
are anyways! Grin! No elitists
would dare show their mugs on this list for fear of getting flamed
by the Roust-abouts and Scallywags
like myself, of which I suspect there are quite a few.

Still, it is a list of passionate people, I grant you that! Never a
dull moment! Kinda like watching 
The Osborns on TV, ain't it ? Sigh! Well at least we're not getting
criticized for spelling and grammar
mistakes. Yet ! Give it time though. Someone will have us
completing an entrance exam sometime
soon.

Lanman  

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 12/6/2003 at 11:23 PM KS wrote:

So if you don't contribute get of of the newsgroup?
If this is an elite group, let me know and I'm gone.
There is no reason for people respond to messages with 'prick' ish
replys. If you don't want to answer somebody's question, don't..
Somebody who is sympathetic to the individual's problem wil
probably
be very willing to reply.  People talk about proper etiquette in
list
but in my observation, more bandwidth is wasted by too many people
jumping in to knock peple down, instead of helping.
This is not directed at an individual reponse, but at this and
other
general threads.



JoeHill said the following, On 06/12/2003 11:06 PM:

 On 06 Dec 2003 22:59:07 -0500
 Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Don't worry about  joedill/haywiremac, he's a newb that wants
everyone
to
 think he's an old timer, which he's not; he's just some 
recently-arrived troll
 that has been looking for a home and has managed to keep his
fat 
mouth shut
 for a short time, only by way of extreme duress.
 
 
 So where are Vincent, James, et al, now?
 
 I guess it's okay to trash ol' Joe, but not WoBo, no? I guess
this is 
exactly
 the hypocrisy I was talking about way back when.
 
 And you've contributed *what* lately, Lyvim? LOL!
 
 

---
---
 
 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
 Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On Sat, 2003-12-06 at 23:08, JoeHill wrote:
 On 06 Dec 2003 22:59:07 -0500
 Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   I'm fed up with your crap Joe. The next time you challenge me, you'd
   better be ready to dance BITCH! For your
   sake your name and number better not be in the phone book Pal. Once
   again you made a bad choice. I don't
   sit around the house dreaming this shit up. But I wish I had kept the
   email I received from Istop so I could forward
   it to you and shove it down your throat.
 
 This will be forwarded to the local authorities. You just crossed the line.

Forwarded to the local authorities?  Crossed the line?  The only
line that has been crossed was crossed by you a long time ago; the one
where you revealed yourself as being an incredibly pathetic troll whose
sole skill was liberal use of profanity whilest simultaneously insulting
long time list members.  Your sole respite from the backlash of your ill
advised posts was to change your name to HaywireMac in the hope that you
might escape the fire.  However since your arrogance is undiminished,
even in the light of history, you still persist in throwing barbs
towards Lanman and myself.  Your memory is still short and your
arrogance is still astronomical.  Unfortunately for you *my* memory is
*not* short, and while you are forwarding whatever paper lion crap you
have cooked up you might also take time to forward the several hundred
messages I have FROM YOU from several months past.  I keep a local
archive, you see; so I don't even have to hit the web site archives to
pull up every single piece of vitreol you have hurled since you joined
the lists.  Especially interesting were the exchanges with Anne Wilson;
my, what a gentleman you are.

I find it continually fascinating to contemplate about how little you
know about the strength of your own position.  I don't see any problem
with bundling a nice little package from the local archives with a
ribbon and a bow and sending it to Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] as a
stocking stuffer christmas attachment.  I'm sure he can find many
interesting and entertaining uses to which to put such an innovative
christmas present.

LX

-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
Filter That, Bitch! --Lanman, MDK Newbie List



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-06 Thread Jerry Barton


Plonk.  Plonk.  Fizz. Fizz.  O! What a relief it is.

-- 
_||_  Registered linux user #300600 
 (o_  Registered linux machine # 185855  
 //\at   
 V_/_ http://counter.li.org  

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On 12/6/2003 at 11:54 PM KS wrote:

Been watching for a few years, but have never been willing to
subject
myself to a public stoning.
I've been checking out Debian and its lists, it seems to be more
friendly. Mandrake, while being a good distro has started to turn
me
off with their actions before I  was willing to get  a CLUB 
membership,...too bad. :-(

Lanman said the following, On 06/12/2003 11:41 PM:

 Another Canadian on the list eh? Welcome to the fray! Of course,
if
 you've been here a long time
 already please disregard this emai. But still nice to see
another
 Canuck on board !
 
 Lanman

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***
Actually, you get used to it after a while. Helps to clear up the
bad blood, and you get to practice
your dodging techniques ! Grin ! As for Mandrake, I know for a fact
that they've been going through a 
lot of changes in recent years, so try to be patient. They've got
to get their house in order before they
can improve on customer relations. Not a perfect solution, but
they're trying.

Lanman



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

Cute! Poetic too ! May I suggest that you Plonk
[EMAIL PROTECTED] as well ? It would 
make your life a lot simpler.

Just a thought.

Lanman

*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

On 12/6/2003 at 10:11 PM Jerry Barton wrote:

Plonk.  Plonk.  Fizz. Fizz.  O! What a relief it is.

-- 
_||_  Registered linux user #300600 
 (o_  Registered linux machine # 185855  
 //\at   
 V_/_ http://counter.li.org  


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On 12/7/2003 at 12:01 AM Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

On Sat, 2003-12-06 at 23:08, JoeHill wrote:
 On 06 Dec 2003 22:59:07 -0500
 Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   I'm fed up with your crap Joe. The next time you challenge
me, you'd
   better be ready to dance BITCH! For your
   sake your name and number better not be in the phone book
Pal. Once
   again you made a bad choice. I don't
   sit around the house dreaming this shit up. But I wish I had
kept the
   email I received from Istop so I could forward
   it to you and shove it down your throat.

 This will be forwarded to the local authorities. You just
crossed the
line.

Forwarded to the local authorities?  Crossed the line?  The
only
line that has been crossed was crossed by you a long time ago; the
one
where you revealed yourself as being an incredibly pathetic troll
whose
sole skill was liberal use of profanity whilest simultaneously
insulting
long time list members.  Your sole respite from the backlash of
your ill
advised posts was to change your name to HaywireMac in the hope
that you
might escape the fire.  However since your arrogance is
undiminished,
even in the light of history, you still persist in throwing barbs
towards Lanman and myself.  Your memory is still short and your
arrogance is still astronomical.  Unfortunately for you *my*
memory is
*not* short, and while you are forwarding whatever paper lion crap
you
have cooked up you might also take time to forward the several
hundred
messages I have FROM YOU from several months past.  I keep a local
archive, you see; so I don't even have to hit the web site
archives to
pull up every single piece of vitreol you have hurled since you
joined
the lists.  Especially interesting were the exchanges with Anne
Wilson;
my, what a gentleman you are.

I find it continually fascinating to contemplate about how little
you
know about the strength of your own position.  I don't see any
problem
with bundling a nice little package from the local archives with a
ribbon and a bow and sending it to Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] as
a
stocking stuffer christmas attachment.  I'm sure he can find many
interesting and entertaining uses to which to put such an
innovative
christmas present.

LX
°°
°°
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
Filter That, Bitch! --Lanman, MDK Newbie List
°°
°°


*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

Lyvim; Sounds like Christmas is coming early this year! Anyway,
before this turns into another mess,
I'd like to suggest that we just ignore him Lyvim. As fed up as I
am, and as much as I'd love to take this
guy down a peg or two, you know what? He's not worth it. Don't
bother getting your blood pressure up
over this guy.

There's a reason we're all here, and even though this kind of
flaming certainly adds a lot of excitement to
the list, it's not what we're here for. I hate to sound like the
sane people on the list, but it's probably for
the best.

Let's get back to the good stuff like World Domination! Flaming
Microshaft, or SCO. Whaddya say?
Shall we ignore the waste of skin, and get back into the thick of
things? The more attention we pay to him,
the longer it'll take for him to go away.

It's only a thought, but if you want to continue, I'm with you all
the way!

Speaking of several months ago, what ever happened to Stephen and
Frankie ? Are they still around?
Be nice to hear from them, don't you think Lyvim ?

Lanman



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On Sun, 2003-12-07 at 00:10, Lanman wrote:
 On 12/6/2003 at 11:54 PM KS wrote:
 
 Been watching for a few years, but have never been willing to
 subject
 myself to a public stoning.
 I've been checking out Debian and its lists, it seems to be more
 friendly. Mandrake, while being a good distro has started to turn
 me
 off with their actions before I  was willing to get  a CLUB 
 membership,...too bad. :-(
 
 Lanman said the following, On 06/12/2003 11:41 PM:
 
  Another Canadian on the list eh? Welcome to the fray! Of course,
 if
  you've been here a long time
  already please disregard this emai. But still nice to see
 another
  Canuck on board !
  
  Lanman
 
 *** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***
 Actually, you get used to it after a while. Helps to clear up the
 bad blood, and you get to practice
 your dodging techniques ! Grin ! As for Mandrake, I know for a fact
 that they've been going through a 
 lot of changes in recent years, so try to be patient. They've got
 to get their house in order before they
 can improve on customer relations. Not a perfect solution, but
 they're trying.
 
 Lanman
 


I agree, Lanman.  I have had problems with the decisions that were made
with rpmdrake, but I've put those differences aside in view of the whole
distro.  I think Mandrake is the best desktop solution available for
Linux.  What's more, Red Hat seems to be sliding out of the desktop
picture, wether voluntarily or involuntarily.  This gives Mandrake quite
a breather for more business; an unusual lucky break.  It's about time;
Mandrake has needed some kind of lucky break for some time now.  I view
the events at Red Hat as a prime opportunity for Mandrake to grab
customers and new Club members.

The problem with Red Hat historically is that they have not been willing
to go in the direction of very innovative new business solutions that
*embrace* the needs of the desktop users rather than ignore them. Like
the Mandrake Club idea by Deno, for instance.  That's why I think there
has been a loss of market share from Red Hat to Mandrake.  MDK employees
and developers are responsive and concerned about their users; and it
shows.

Where Mandrake will possibly go wrong is if they continue to make
unilateral elitist decisions concerning their GUI *without* consulting
or polling Mandrake club members beforehand.  Generally speaking,
however, Mandrake is the most user inclusive distribution available
today.  There is no distro that keeps up with current trends, user
needs, or user comments and requests like MDK; they have no peer in this
regard.  Take a look at SUSE linux, for instance.  You cannot even get
an ISO download of that distro for free, in order to try it out.  At
least I could not, from the SUSE website.

So before anyone contemplates a move to something else, they should take
a hard look at everything else.  From what I see, Mandrake has no peers.

LX
-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
Filter That, Bitch! --Lanman, MDK Newbie List



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

2003-12-06 Thread Greg

Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 12/7/2003 at 12:01 AM Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

On Sat, 2003-12-06 at 23:08, JoeHill wrote:
 On 06 Dec 2003 22:59:07 -0500
 Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   I'm fed up with your crap Joe. The next time you challenge
me, you'd
   better be ready to dance BITCH! For your
   sake your name and number better not be in the phone book
Pal. Once
   again you made a bad choice. I don't
   sit around the house dreaming this shit up. But I wish I had
kept the
   email I received from Istop so I could forward
   it to you and shove it down your throat.

 This will be forwarded to the local authorities. You just
crossed the
line.

Forwarded to the local authorities?  Crossed the line?  The
only
line that has been crossed was crossed by you a long time ago; the
one
where you revealed yourself as being an incredibly pathetic troll
whose
sole skill was liberal use of profanity whilest simultaneously
insulting
long time list members.  Your sole respite from the backlash of
your ill
advised posts was to change your name to HaywireMac in the hope
that you
might escape the fire.  However since your arrogance is
undiminished,
even in the light of history, you still persist in throwing barbs
towards Lanman and myself.  Your memory is still short and your
arrogance is still astronomical.  Unfortunately for you *my*
memory is
*not* short, and while you are forwarding whatever paper lion crap
you
have cooked up you might also take time to forward the several
hundred
messages I have FROM YOU from several months past.  I keep a local
archive, you see; so I don't even have to hit the web site
archives to
pull up every single piece of vitreol you have hurled since you
joined
the lists.  Especially interesting were the exchanges with Anne
Wilson;
my, what a gentleman you are.

I find it continually fascinating to contemplate about how little
you
know about the strength of your own position.  I don't see any
problem
with bundling a nice little package from the local archives with a
ribbon and a bow and sending it to Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] as
a
stocking stuffer christmas attachment.  I'm sure he can find many
interesting and entertaining uses to which to put such an
innovative
christmas present.

LX
°°
°°
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
Filter That, Bitch! --Lanman, MDK Newbie List
°°
°°


*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***

Lyvim; Sounds like Christmas is coming early this year! Anyway,
before this turns into another mess,
I'd like to suggest that we just ignore him Lyvim. As fed up as I
am, and as much as I'd love to take this
guy down a peg or two, you know what? He's not worth it. Don't
bother getting your blood pressure up
over this guy.

There's a reason we're all here, and even though this kind of
flaming certainly adds a lot of excitement to
the list, it's not what we're here for. I hate to sound like the
sane people on the list, but it's probably for
the best.

Let's get back to the good stuff like World Domination! Flaming
Microshaft, or SCO. Whaddya say?
Shall we ignore the waste of skin, and get back into the thick of
things? The more attention we pay to him,
the longer it'll take for him to go away.

It's only a thought, but if you want to continue, I'm with you all
the way!

Speaking of several months ago, what ever happened to Stephen and
Frankie ? Are they still around?
Be nice to hear from them, don't you think Lyvim ?

Lanman
I have not heard from them for awhile  It would be nice to hear from them again  I 
agree with you  Lets get back to Linux  But your idea of World Domination 
sounds   good too  (Grin)  
Greg
-- 
Linux Mandrake Rules


__
McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network.
Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today!
http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397

Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge.  Download Now!
http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On Sun, 2003-12-07 at 00:27, Lanman wrote:

 Lyvim; Sounds like Christmas is coming early this year! Anyway,
 before this turns into another mess,
 I'd like to suggest that we just ignore him Lyvim. As fed up as I
 am, and as much as I'd love to take this
 guy down a peg or two, you know what? He's not worth it. Don't
 bother getting your blood pressure up
 over this guy.
 
 There's a reason we're all here, and even though this kind of
 flaming certainly adds a lot of excitement to
 the list, it's not what we're here for. I hate to sound like the
 sane people on the list, but it's probably for
 the best.
 
 Let's get back to the good stuff like World Domination! Flaming
 Microshaft, or SCO. Whaddya say?
 Shall we ignore the waste of skin, and get back into the thick of
 things? The more attention we pay to him,
 the longer it'll take for him to go away.
 
 It's only a thought, but if you want to continue, I'm with you all
 the way!
 
 Speaking of several months ago, what ever happened to Stephen and
 Frankie ? Are they still around?
 Be nice to hear from them, don't you think Lyvim ?
 
 Lanman
 

Message received, LM!   Loud and clear.  As far as Stephen, I don't
know; I postulated some time back that he was out making money like I
have been trying to do; but haven't heard from him in an age.

Frankie started the Mandrake-games list, and then sort of vanished. 
Don't know why that is; hell, I liked it better before he started the
Mandrake-games list, he was around more.  He could be reworking his net
so that he can better handle traffic; I understand that cause that's
exactly what I've been doing here in addition to everything else.  I've
been busy at work on a new firewall and internet connection; running
LM92, of course!!  (what else? grin)

The old guys are probably still around, maybe if we beg enough for
Frankie and Stephen, they will all of a sudden magically appear. ;)

You might want to check out the Mandrake-OT list if you haven't already;
cause there are alot of very nice and interesting people there that are
passionate about their beliefs.  Stephen and Frankie are subscribed
there; many interesting conversations.  Warning, however; it can be a
timesink and hard to contribute to the lively discussions on a regular
basis, especially if you are an entrepreneur.  I haven't seen Frankie or
Stephen there recently either, tho.  (?)


LX
-- 
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
Filter That, Bitch! --Lanman, MDK Newbie List



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!

On 12/7/2003 at 12:32 AM Lyvim Xaphir wrote:

I agree, Lanman.  I have had problems with the decisions that were
made
with rpmdrake, but I've put those differences aside in view of the
whole
distro.  I think Mandrake is the best desktop solution available
for
Linux.  What's more, Red Hat seems to be sliding out of the
desktop
picture, wether voluntarily or involuntarily.  This gives Mandrake
quite
a breather for more business; an unusual lucky break.  It's about
time;
Mandrake has needed some kind of lucky break for some time now.  I
view
the events at Red Hat as a prime opportunity for Mandrake to grab
customers and new Club members.

The problem with Red Hat historically is that they have not been
willing
to go in the direction of very innovative new business solutions
that
*embrace* the needs of the desktop users rather than ignore them.
Like
the Mandrake Club idea by Deno, for instance.  That's why I think
there
has been a loss of market share from Red Hat to Mandrake.  MDK
employees
and developers are responsive and concerned about their users; and
it
shows.

Where Mandrake will possibly go wrong is if they continue to make
unilateral elitist decisions concerning their GUI *without*
consulting
or polling Mandrake club members beforehand.  Generally speaking,
however, Mandrake is the most user inclusive distribution
available
today.  There is no distro that keeps up with current trends, user
needs, or user comments and requests like MDK; they have no peer
in this
regard.  Take a look at SUSE linux, for instance.  You cannot even
get
an ISO download of that distro for free, in order to try it out.
At
least I could not, from the SUSE website.

So before anyone contemplates a move to something else, they
should take
a hard look at everything else.  From what I see, Mandrake has no
peers.

LX
--
°°
°°
°°°
Linux Mandrake 9.1  Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk
Filter That, Bitch! --Lanman, MDK Newbie List
°°
°°


*** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***
Almost from the beginning of Mandrake, it has been the premiere
distro of Linux ( On a comparitive
scale ), for newbie's. Mandrake is the one distro whose business
model and mission seems to be
to make it easier to migrate from Windows to Linux. I have a much
easier time convincing clients to
switch to Linux once they see how Mandrake provides tools which
make the process of switching
to Linux virtually intuitive, if not relatively easy.

Something curious to note here ( at least for me ), is that I find
that most of my clients are eager to
learn when you take the time to teach them a few things, and to
explain something in plain English
instead of Techno-Babble.

This tends to make them more curious about learning about Linux,
and about computing in general,
and I end up with clients who aren't afraid to ask questions or
experiment. Overall, the trust in these
business relationships increases with each question.

If I was to try to explain Suse or RedHat to a client they'd be
climbing the walls in no time. While the
nature of Mandrake and it's wizards may still have some bugs to
work out, it is most likely the simplest
distro to learn, which IMHO gives them a distinct advantage.

I think they've done a lot to promote Linux just from this
perspective. You're not going to see a lot of
new computer users jumping on the Linux bandwagon right from the
start, but frustration regarding M$
products and curiousity about Linux will often drive people away
from The Dark Side and into the
loving arms of Linux, and Mandrake is probably the choice that many
will make.

In a way, it is a tribute to Mandrake that some Linux users
eventually move on to other distro's, since
this usually means that they've learned a lot from Mandrake, and
are ready for another challenge.

In the meantime, Mandrake hasn't deemed to give up, so neither
shall I. I firmly believe that once they get
their money problems solved, they'll come back to the users and get
involved in solving their PR problems
as well.

Lanman




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [newbie] I'm baaaaaaacccckkkkk!