Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Tuesday June 10 2003 07:22 pm, JoeHill wrote: So I kind'a believe the problem is on your end ; Anyhow, M$RTF doesn't bother me, as long as winsux users don't use it's M$ only gimmicks. heeey, waitaminnit, it shows up in yer sent folder that way cuz it doesn't have the list footer attached yet! I win! yaaahoo! Tm was wroong... Yeah, I guess I was, I forgot about the mandrake footer -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Monday June 9 2003 04:33 pm, Cody Harris wrote: Hows this? X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 | | Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--=_1055194127-2727-823 Which means it Windoze RTF, and not plain text. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:20:01 -0500 Tom Brinkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 | | Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--=_1055194127-2727-823 Which means it Windoze RTF, and not plain text. ah, not necessarily, that shows up for all my list mail, because of the footer. For example, this very e-mail (yours) shows: Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--=_1055254393-2727-1039 My mailer strips out HTML, so I can't say for sure... -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 15:22:59 up 7 days, 13:26, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Tuesday June 10 2003 02:26 pm, JoeHill wrote: On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:20:01 -0500 Tom Brinkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--=_1055194127-2727-823 Which means it Windoze RTF, and not plain text. ah, not necessarily, that shows up for all my list mail, because of the footer. For example, this very e-mail (yours) shows: Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--=_1055254393-2727-1039 My mailer strips out HTML, so I can't say for sure... Well I'm not sure either JH. But I did find that reply of mine to Cody in my 'sent mail' folder and it said X-KMail-Link-Type: reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 whereas your reply to me shows X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 | | Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--=_1055272903-2727-1132 So I kind'a believe the problem is on your end ; Anyhow, M$RTF doesn't bother me, as long as winsux users don't use it's M$ only gimmicks. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:33:30 -0500 Tom Brinkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: So I kind'a believe the problem is on your end ; Anyhow, M$RTF doesn't bother me, as long as winsux users don't use it's M$ only gimmicks. but Sylpheed ain't even capable of anything other than plain text... I don't get it... -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 20:02:19 up 7 days, 18:06, 3 users, load average: 0.02, 0.03, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:33:30 -0500 Tom Brinkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: So I kind'a believe the problem is on your end ; Anyhow, M$RTF doesn't bother me, as long as winsux users don't use it's M$ only gimmicks. heeey, waitaminnit, it shows up in yer sent folder that way cuz it doesn't have the list footer attached yet! I win! yaaahoo! Tm was wroong... slug from Peacemaker whiz's past JoeHill's ear er, never mind... :D -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 20:19:29 up 7 days, 18:23, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Monday 09 June 2003 05:33 pm, Cody Harris wrote: Hows this? (To HTML Ranter) Thank you. -- cmg (one of several HTML Ranters) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
I've been using Linux and Windows side-by-side (work/home) for a couple of years now. I've moved on from Mandrake 8.0 to 9.1, but I've never moved on to WinXP. So I was curious to see what it looks like when my father-in-law got it. Guess what! WinXP is for dummies! At least, that's what it looks like... I'd rather stick to Linux which is a serious computing environment. Regards, Hendrik Martin Disclaimer: http://www.sabc.co.za/disclaimer/emaildisclaimer.htm http://www.sabc.co.za/disclaimer/emaildisclaimer.htm Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
At 05:50 PM 6/8/2003 -0600, you wrote: quoting Cody Harris's missive of Sunday 08 June 2003 02:10 pm: snip It took 4 hours to install MDK 8.1, and 60 mins for Windoze. That must have included the time required to figure out what the hell all of those packages were in the individual package selection type install, then deciding which ones you wanted. Granted it is a *really long* list but It only took me like 10 mins at the MOST. If that. This box is only a Pentium 3 500 MHz and it did _not_ take that long to do a *network* install of 9.1 from a network.img floppy. (This entails downloading and installing from a mirror. No CDs involved) From scratch! On a totally new unformatted hard drive. :-) That took just over an hour over my cable modem. Minimal install, just internet and multi-media workstation, and then added packages after (Open Office, games, xscreensavers, Texstars KDE packages, a few others); maybe another 30 to 40 minutes. What were you doing for the other (roughly) 3 hours? Installing Windows in your sleep? g Installing Linux. The biggest % was installing the packages. It took A LONG time. 200 MHz 32 MB. I used the CDs. My friends all have Windoze. They send me windoze programs and we play Windoze games and run Windoze stuff. -Cody Harris It almost sounds as though Windows may be right for you, and that's OK Cody. But please don't dismiss GNU/Linux in general; and Mandrake in particular, just because it's different and doesn't do things the Windows Way©. Two major points in relating a Mandrake (or almost any other GNU/Linux, but especially Mandrake) install to a Windows install: 1.) In Mandrake if the hardware in the box or attached to it is supported at all it installs, and is ready for use, when you first boot to user space. Printers and scanners or ZIP drives and flash readers will need some configuration probably, but not much else. Usually. Unless the user screwed something up at the summary screen. We all know who we are, don't we? :-) In Windows you have to be certain you have all of the drivers for everything in the box or attached to it before you start or you're hooped. I've had to chase down drivers for network cards, modems, printers, scanners, video, ad nauseum, for every Windows install I've ever been forced to help anyone with. This usually happens due to the standard My machine came with Windows preinstalled computer that the person bought needing Reinstall Windows every 90 days (at least) whether you think it's needed or not maintenance. It usually is. Then the operating system will whine about the drivers or refuse to load them. Cause they ain't signed. Which is a joke since the signatures are wide open and any cracker can fake them. Don't forget genuflections to the Gods of Redmond and Saints Steve B. and Craig M. Or is the requirement a virgin sacrifice this year? I can never recall. How many times will you have to reboot to register the drivers and (maybe) make things work? System restore? HAH! 2.) After installing Mandrake you still own the box. You have the option to connect to a network or the internet or not, decide whether to send any information to the distributor of the operating system. You _have control_ of everything that goes in or out of what you paid for. Can reboot as many times as your equipment will without running into the limited functionality warnings. You don't have to ask the owner's permission to listen to music, read a document, surf the 'net, watch a video. After installing Windows. Can you say Frisbee®? ;-) Regards; Charlie -- Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org Mandrake 9.1 Bamboo (cooked) 16:23:54 up 26 days, 8:27, 3 users, load average: 0.20, 0.13, 0.11 Krogt, n. (chemical symbol: Kr): The metallic silver coating found on fast-food game cards. -- Rich Hall, Sniglets Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -Cody Harris ++ | Linux Rox My Sox! | | Check out HCHS! | | http://vectec.net | ++--+ | Proud to use Mandrake Linux 8.1 as a server. | | Not proud to use Windows as a primary server. | ++--+ | Registered Linux user #315598 | | Registered Linux Computer #200951 | | Wrote on a Windoze Computer :( | ++
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Monday 09 Jun 2003 11:30 am, Cody Harris wrote: At 05:50 PM 6/8/2003 -0600, you wrote: quoting Cody Harris's missive of Sunday 08 June 2003 02:10 pm: snip It took 4 hours to install MDK 8.1, and 60 mins for Windoze. That must have included the time required to figure out what the hell all of those packages were in the individual package selection type install, then deciding which ones you wanted. Granted it is a *really long* list but It only took me like 10 mins at the MOST. If that. This box is only a Pentium 3 500 MHz and it did _not_ take that long to do a *network* install of 9.1 from a network.img floppy. (This entails downloading and installing from a mirror. No CDs involved) From scratch! On a totally new unformatted hard drive. :-) That took just over an hour over my cable modem. Minimal install, just internet and multi-media workstation, and then added packages after (Open Office, games, xscreensavers, Texstars KDE packages, a few others); maybe another 30 to 40 minutes. What were you doing for the other (roughly) 3 hours? Installing Windows in your sleep? g Installing Linux. The biggest % was installing the packages. It took A LONG time. 200 MHz 32 MB. I used the CDs. That really is odd. I installed 9.0 on a really ancient AMD board (around 5 years old) in around 45 minutes. It has a 400 processor and 128 MB ram - nothing specially good and a lot that's not good. It's very slow doing some things, but it works. Can't imagine what took so long. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 08 Jun 2003 21:01:48 -0600 FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: yes i call that sacriledge! Appropriating lesbian themes/icons/etc will be penalized by death!!! or castration... whichever comes first I enjoy more. :D I'll take the death, thank you...but can I see the Lesbian pr0n first? -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 09:19:03 up 6 days, 7:22, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
quoting Anne Wilson's missive of Monday 09 June 2003 04:41 am: whack Installing Linux. The biggest % was installing the packages. It took A LONG time. 200 MHz 32 MB. I used the CDs. Cody; If I recall correctly that machine is your server? How much more than 'just server' packages did you install? Office packages, graphics packages, audio packages, firewall, etc.? How many different desktops? KDE, GNOME, what else? Did any of that extra software get installed from your (1) Windows install disk? Do you think the sheer _size_ of the install on that limited system may have had some effect on how long it took? Installing three or four times the number of applications may actually TAKE three or four times as long? On the same machine? That really is odd. I installed 9.0 on a really ancient AMD board (around 5 years old) in around 45 minutes. It has a 400 processor and 128 MB ram - nothing specially good and a lot that's not good. It's very slow doing some things, but it works. Can't imagine what took so long. Anne Hey! Easy with that 'ancient board' crack Anne. This system was built in early 1999. Or late 1998, I can never recall. But I resemble that ancient remark. ;-) Yeah, that's a slow processor Cody is using alright. But it ain't the problem. Check out the difference in RAM between what you installed on and what Cody had trouble with. Then remember the minimum specs for Mandrake 8.1. If I remember correctly it was 64 MB minimum recommended, but I'm not going to dig the box out of the closet to check. May actually have been double that. g As a check; I never had much luck with 8.1. I didn't run it for very long before I cookered this box. Hangs, X crashes, *very* slow operation. I had 512 MB of memory when I installed it then I added another 512. I had to cut it back to 768 total because of a failing memory slot but still...it just didn't like my system. Or me. ;-) With only 32 MB of physical memory I'm surprised it installed at all. 9.0 or 9.1 wouldn't, not if one planned to use the graphical installer. You *might* get disk 1 to install but 2 and 3 wouldn't be available; no memory to hold the package lists and the GUI. Cody; If you want to learn, and to be able to run any GNU/Linux distribution, might I suggest that you start with basics? System requirements are published for a reason, errata pages are published for a reason. notMail lists such as this exist so that smart @$$ people such as myself can hang around to offer unhelpful help to try advising you on how to make things work./not There are a number of (lots actually, and you may have pissed one or more of them off yesterday) truly helpful and intelligent people that answer questions on these lists. As volunteers. Because they believe in the ideals exemplified by the availability of distributions such as Mandrake. Added factor: they really like to help. It requires a minimum commitment on your part. You need to actually _read_ and give thought to the information that's made available though, or that someone offers links to for you. I don't think anyone actually expects you or anybody else to get it on the first go; but I do think you're expected to try, and ask more questions when you need to. Don't just start the Windows is better as a subconscious defence against feeling inadequate. That's old and tired, we've all seen far too much of it. If Windows is really your thang have fun. Just don't expect very many people that read this, or any other like list, to agree with you. From the post I originally quoted from: It took 4 hours to install MDK 8.1, and 60 mins for Windoze. On that same machine? A working Windows install? With all of the extras you installed from the Mandrake disks? In 60 minutes on that hardware? Wellno. Very unlikely. Try again. Comparisons are only as useful as the basic premise allows them to be. This one may not reflect reality. Final thoughts on this subject then I'm outta here; how much would all of the software/server packages you installed have cost you from Microsoft? How much did it cost you from Mandrake? What have you paid for the training you've been offered here? Regards; Charlie -- Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org Mandrake 9.1 Bamboo (cooked) 10:44:05 up 27 days, 2:48, 2 users, load average: 0.10, 0.04, 0.01 Have a nice day! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
At 12:10 PM 6/9/2003 -0600, you wrote: quoting Anne Wilson's missive of Monday 09 June 2003 04:41 am: whack Installing Linux. The biggest % was installing the packages. It took A LONG time. 200 MHz 32 MB. I used the CDs. Cody; If I recall correctly that machine is your server? How much more than 'just server' packages did you install? Office packages, graphics packages, audio packages, firewall, etc.? How many different desktops? KDE, GNOME, what else? Did any of that extra software get installed from your (1) Windows install disk? Do you think the sheer _size_ of the install on that limited system may have had some effect on how long it took? Installing three or four times the number of applications may actually TAKE three or four times as long? On the same machine? I installed most things, because it was just a server then. That really is odd. I installed 9.0 on a really ancient AMD board (around 5 years old) in around 45 minutes. It has a 400 processor and 128 MB ram - nothing specially good and a lot that's not good. It's very slow doing some things, but it works. Can't imagine what took so long. Anne Hey! Easy with that 'ancient board' crack Anne. This system was built in early 1999. Or late 1998, I can never recall. But I resemble that ancient remark. ;-) Yeah, that's a slow processor Cody is using alright. But it ain't the problem. Check out the difference in RAM between what you installed on and what Cody had trouble with. Then remember the minimum specs for Mandrake 8.1. If I remember correctly it was 64 MB minimum recommended, but I'm not going to dig the box out of the closet to check. May actually have been double that. g As a check; I never had much luck with 8.1. I didn't run it for very long before I cookered this box. Hangs, X crashes, *very* slow operation. I had 512 MB of memory when I installed it then I added another 512. I had to cut it back to 768 total because of a failing memory slot but still...it just didn't like my system. Or me. ;-) With only 32 MB of physical memory I'm surprised it installed at all. 9.0 or 9.1 wouldn't, not if one planned to use the graphical installer. You *might* get disk 1 to install but 2 and 3 wouldn't be available; no memory to hold the package lists and the GUI. Cody; If you want to learn, and to be able to run any GNU/Linux distribution, might I suggest that you start with basics? System requirements are published for a reason, errata pages are published for a reason. notMail lists such as this exist so that smart @$$ people such as myself can hang around to offer unhelpful help to try advising you on how to make things work./not There are a number of (lots actually, and you may have pissed one or more of them off yesterday) truly helpful and intelligent people that answer questions on these lists. As volunteers. Because they believe in the ideals exemplified by the availability of distributions such as Mandrake. Added factor: they really like to help. It requires a minimum commitment on your part. You need to actually _read_ and give thought to the information that's made available though, or that someone offers links to for you. I don't think anyone actually expects you or anybody else to get it on the first go; but I do think you're expected to try, and ask more questions when you need to. Don't just start the Windows is better as a subconscious defence against feeling inadequate. That's old and tired, we've all seen far too much of it. If Windows is really your thang have fun. Just don't expect very many people that read this, or any other like list, to agree with you. From the post I originally quoted from: It took 4 hours to install MDK 8.1, and 60 mins for Windoze. On that same machine? A working Windows install? With all of the extras you installed from the Mandrake disks? In 60 minutes on that hardware? Wellno. Very unlikely. Try again. Comparisons are only as useful as the basic premise allows them to be. This one may not reflect reality. Final thoughts on this subject then I'm outta here; how much would all of the software/server packages you installed have cost you from Microsoft? How much did it cost you from Mandrake? What have you paid for the training you've been offered here? Regards; Charlie -- Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org Mandrake 9.1 Bamboo (cooked) 10:44:05 up 27 days, 2:48, 2 users, load average: 0.10, 0.04, 0.01 Have a nice day! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -Cody Harris ++ | Linux Rox My Sox! | | Check out HCHS! | | http://vectec.net | ++--+ | Proud to use Mandrake Linux 8.1 as a server. | | Not proud to use Windows as a primary server. | ++--+ | Registered Linux user #315598 | | Registered Linux Computer #200951 | | Wrote on a Windoze Computer :( |
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
At 07:05 PM 6/9/2003 +0300, you wrote: snip I install Linux a lot because: 1. I like to break things. 2. It's often quicker to reinstall the system than work out how to fix it. When our department bought us a CD-Writer, I spent a while trying to configure it, then thought This is boring and did a network reinstall. Up and running again in thirty minutes, less time than it would have taken me to read all that boring crap about emulating SCSI devices! Sir Robin the Kludger ROFL so true luv! heh lord knows I think I suit your mentality as well sometimes... depends on mood ADD status. :D - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 13:56, Cody Harris wrote: Hack away all the HTML crap Cody, if you're going to quote _all_ of several messages and include a one sentence reply, please stop the HTML or get another mailer or start using linux or at least snip some of it. On the weekends I'm on pay by the second dial up over wires that are literally strung on the same posts as the barbed wire fence. HTML is at least twice as big as plain text: it costs me twice as much to see you quote at length stuff I've already read. Other people are in the same or similar situations I'm sure -- not everybody is on the fat pipe or can afford to be. Several people have asked you this already; the list FAQ asks for plain text and I saw this morning that you've alienated one of the most knowledgeable and helpful people on this list (not me!). When you get to be as useful to the list as Stephen Kuhn is, we'll let you have a big sig like he does. Until then, good practice is to limit it to a couple of lines, or use it only once in a while. -- N. B. Day Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
g Installing Linux. The biggest % was installing the packages. It took A LONG time. 200 MHz 32 MB. I used the CDs. so Cody, on that same box, how long did it take to install windows XP? (and include office XP) I would bet... lets see.,...,,, 4ever? as XP, ME, and 2kpro ain't installing at all with that little ram I bet most folks on this list gots more video ram than that. the instructions say 64 megs minimum for a gui. I am impressed you got it installed at all, 4 hours is pretty good after all. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 11:13, Aron Smith wrote: On Sat, 2003-06-07 at 15:53, JoeHill wrote: On 08 Jun 2003 08:15:25 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: 1.) Cost 2.) Support 3.) Security 4.) Control 5.) Stability 6.) Features 7.) Multifunctionality without overhead cost 8.) Performance 9.) Installation time 10.) Customisation 11.) Comes with 3 GB of pr0n. You must be running the D.O.M (Dirty Old Man ) Edition where can I get it? Sir Robin and I are going to market this new distro. From the beginning of the installation all through it's casual usage, it's aimed at being totally pr0n centred - even the themes are pr0n based. Not only does it come with all the normal bells and whistles, but we've renamed the beloved Tux to _ux, renamed Sylpheed to Syphillis, and more. Also comes with 10 complimentary CD's of international pr0n - each main CD focusing on a particular cultures sexual tastes. Instead of buttons, you have tits'n'arse to click on. Mouse pointers are actually penises. Normal system beeps and bells have been replaced with groans, moans and screams. When KDE starts up, you hear Oh God, it's coming! It's coming! It's - AAHHH - it's done! -- Sun Jun 8 15:15:00 EST 2003 15:15:00 up 1 day, 1:06, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.06, 0.08 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * A Los Angeles judge ruled that a citizen may snore with immunity in his own home, even though he may be in possession of unusual and exceptional ability in that particular field. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 15:57, Michael Viron wrote: Just a thought, but keep in mind how much easier things have become. I'm not sure how many old-timers are on the list, but it used to be that in order to do just about anything, you had to compile it yourself. Slackware's FIRST release. Downloaded from the Walnut-Creek site (ftp.cdrom.com). Took a week to get the bloody thing up and running, and STILL without networking via 8mb ISA Lantastic card. Barely even had anything other than a shell. The hot stuff was to telnet via com port to the linux box via serial port FROM the BBS server and make use of bash scripting for menus and navigation. Ohot stuff that! OpenWindows was the XWindows default. (Still works nicely on MDK 9.1, too...hehehehhehe). When FvWM hit, THAT was hot stuff. Took ages to figure out how to add programs to the menus. OpenLook was easier because the text files for the menus sat in /usr/openwin/include - so it was really nicer to have running even though FvWM looked nicer. Sitting through an OS/2 installation was preferable to doing the Slackware installation, and took less time (believe THAT!). RH's first installation in 1994 wasn't much better than Slackware's - and I thought RH would die quickly and Slackware would rule. WRONG. Wow, that brings back memories...or is it mammories? -- Sun Jun 8 16:00:01 EST 2003 16:00:01 up 1 day, 1:51, 3 users, load average: 0.10, 0.15, 0.11 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * A filter set contains all imaginable wavelengths and widths- except the one combination you need -- Ralf's Laws of Observational Astronomy n6 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On 08 Jun 2003 15:15:44 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The ONLY OS that's brainlessly installed is MacOS. Wait, sorry, I used to so Solaris setups on Sparcs, and that was BRAINLESS as well - I only had to know how to configure the networking - which I had to say yes to DHCP and then that was it. | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| It's no coincidence that the hardware for these two OSs is strictly controlled. If someone made a Linux distro and only sold/supported it on the bundled hardware, there's never be a problem. Richard -- Registered Linux user 246658 at http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
At 03:21 PM 6/8/2003 +1000, you wrote: On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 11:13, Aron Smith wrote: On Sat, 2003-06-07 at 15:53, JoeHill wrote: On 08 Jun 2003 08:15:25 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: 1.) Cost 2.) Support 3.) Security 4.) Control 5.) Stability 6.) Features 7.) Multifunctionality without overhead cost 8.) Performance 9.) Installation time 10.) Customisation 11.) Comes with 3 GB of pr0n. You must be running the D.O.M (Dirty Old Man ) Edition where can I get it? Sir Robin and I are going to market this new distro. From the beginning of the installation all through it's casual usage, it's aimed at being totally pr0n centred - even the themes are pr0n based. Not only does it come with all the normal bells and whistles, but we've renamed the beloved Tux to _ux, renamed Sylpheed to Syphillis, and more. Also comes with 10 complimentary CD's of international pr0n - each main CD focusing on a particular cultures sexual tastes. Instead of buttons, you have tits'n'arse to click on. Mouse pointers are actually penises. Normal system beeps and bells have been replaced with groans, moans and screams. When KDE starts up, you hear Oh God, it's coming! It's coming! It's - AAHHH - it's done! I'm not hearing this. -- Sun Jun 8 15:15:00 EST 2003 15:15:00 up 1 day, 1:06, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.06, 0.08 - | __ __ |kuhn media australia | | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn | | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * A Los Angeles judge ruled that a citizen may snore with immunity in his own home, even though he may be in possession of unusual and exceptional ability in that particular field. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -Cody Harris ++ | Linux Rox My Sox! | | Check out HCHS! | | http://vectec.net | ++--+ | Proud to use Mandrake Linux 8.1 as a server. | | Not proud to use Windows as a primary server. | ++--+ | Registered Linux user #315598 | | Registered Linux Computer #200951 | | Wrote on a Windoze Computer :( | ++
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
At 03:15 PM 6/8/2003 +1000, you wrote: On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 10:56, Cody Harris wrote: I think that's where someone should step in and make it usable to the average non-computer literate person. It took my awhile to learn how to do things. I think that could be solved with a little more automation and not painstakingly doing everything. urpmi(sp?) is great, but what about someone that doesn't know about it? Windows update if good because it says: Here's a list of crap that we think will make your computer better. Even if it doesn't help. Of course, i'm saying this from experiance, so i'm most likly wrong. How many of you that have had wives that didn't know how to use the thing? Look, 90% of the world DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO INSTALL WINDOWS - they buy a computer with Windows already installed. IF they had to install it themselves, it's a tough go - especially on a machine that requires all kinda special drivers and proprietary BS to get it to work properly. ON THAT SAME NOTE, when I sell a linux computer to a customer, it's already installed and configured, the ONLY thing they have to do is to put in their ISP's phone number and other settings for email, and well, that's about that. This is an apples and oranges thing now. Most of the world DOES NOT install their OS. Someone does it for them And in having someone do it for them, things are going to get done FOR them that they cannot or will not do. The ONLY OS that's brainlessly installed is MacOS. Windows is NOT easy to install and configure. OS/2 is NOT easy to install and configure. BeOS was NOT easy to install and configure. Any version of Windows is not/has not/will not be easy to install and configure. Linux is no different. I can install windoze in my sleep. But i spend hours with Linux. Maybe that's just me. Wait, sorry, I used to so Solaris setups on Sparcs, and that was BRAINLESS as well - I only had to know how to configure the networking - which I had to say yes to DHCP and then that was it. If you had your first computer experiences with someone delivering a system to you with everything already setup and configured, what would your perceptions be? I have customers that are literal dummies, but yet, they're running linux and they don't really know or care less either which way. They can surf, do email, chat, play tunes and DVD's - they don't care. They don't care that it's not Windows. Nothing breaks - so they don't have to worry about it anyways. They never have questions for me or call with silly problems because they can't have those same problems on the OS they're running. Occasionally I explain how to download and install something (just double click on the program and it installs!) - and that's about it. No dramas. I must be hiding in hole because programs rarely install (easily) for me. If you were brought up only using a Mac, every other OS is strange and has problems. If you were brought up only using linux, every other OS is strange4 and has problems. If you were brought up only using Windows, every other OS is strange and has problems. It's a matter of what you're familiar with and how you're basing your perceptions, mate. I'm tring my best. Like i've said in other threads, i wish i could switch to Linux, but i can't. When i get another computer, i'll use it. For now my only contact to the Linux World is this list and my other computer though SSH. -- Sun Jun 8 15:05:01 EST 2003 15:05:01 up 1 day, 56 min, 3 users, load average: 0.20, 0.23, 0.13 - | __ __ |kuhn media australia | | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn | | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * The instruments of science do not in themselves discover truth. And there are searchings that are not concluded by the coincidence of a pointer and a mark. -- Fred Saberhagen, The Berserker Wars Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -Cody Harris ++ | Linux Rox My Sox! | | Check out HCHS! | | http://vectec.net | ++--+ | Proud to use Mandrake Linux 8.1 as a server. | | Not proud to use Windows as a primary server. | ++--+ | Registered Linux user #315598 | | Registered Linux Computer #200951 | | Wrote on a Windoze Computer :( | ++
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 01:15, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 10:56, Cody Harris wrote: I think that's where someone should step in and make it usable to the average non-computer literate person. It took my awhile to learn how to do things. I think that could be solved with a little more automation and not painstakingly doing everything. urpmi(sp?) is great, but what about someone that doesn't know about it? Windows update if good because it says: Here's a list of crap that we think will make your computer better. Even if it doesn't help. Of course, i'm saying this from experiance, so i'm most likly wrong. How many of you that have had wives that didn't know how to use the thing? Look, 90% of the world DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO INSTALL WINDOWS - they buy a computer with Windows already installed. IF they had to install it themselves, it's a tough go - especially on a machine that requires all kinda special drivers and proprietary BS to get it to work properly. ON THAT SAME NOTE, when I sell a linux computer to a customer, it's already installed and configured, the ONLY thing they have to do is to put in their ISP's phone number and other settings for email, and well, that's about that. This is an apples and oranges thing now. Most of the world DOES NOT install their OS. Someone does it for them And in having someone do it for them, things are going to get done FOR them that they cannot or will not do. The ONLY OS that's brainlessly installed is MacOS. Windows is NOT easy to install and configure. OS/2 is NOT easy to install and configure. BeOS was NOT easy to install and configure. Any version of Windows is not/has not/will not be easy to install and configure. Linux is no different. Wait, sorry, I used to so Solaris setups on Sparcs, and that was BRAINLESS as well - I only had to know how to configure the networking - which I had to say yes to DHCP and then that was it. If you had your first computer experiences with someone delivering a system to you with everything already setup and configured, what would your perceptions be? I have customers that are literal dummies, but yet, they're running linux and they don't really know or care less either which way. They can surf, do email, chat, play tunes and DVD's - they don't care. They don't care that it's not Windows. Nothing breaks - so they don't have to worry about it anyways. They never have questions for me or call with silly problems because they can't have those same problems on the OS they're running. Occasionally I explain how to download and install something (just double click on the program and it installs!) - and that's about it. No dramas. If you were brought up only using a Mac, every other OS is strange and has problems. If you were brought up only using linux, every other OS is strange4 and has problems. If you were brought up only using Windows, every other OS is strange and has problems. It's a matter of what you're familiar with and how you're basing your perceptions, mate. Excellent, Stephen. It is going to be part of my arsenal when speaking about Linux. Very nice! -- __ / \\ @ __ __@ Adolfo Bello / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / // // /\ / \\ // \ // Bello Ingenieria S.A, ICQ: 65910258 / \\ // / \\ / // // / //mobile: +58 416 609-6213 /___// // / _/ \__\\ //__/ // fax : +58 212 952-6797 www.bisapi.com //pager : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
At 04:13 PM 6/8/2003 +1000, you wrote: On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 15:57, Michael Viron wrote: Just a thought, but keep in mind how much easier things have become. I'm not sure how many old-timers are on the list, but it used to be that in order to do just about anything, you had to compile it yourself. Slackware's FIRST release. Downloaded from the Walnut-Creek site (ftp.cdrom.com). Took a week to get the bloody thing up and running, and STILL without networking via 8mb ISA Lantastic card. Barely even had anything other than a shell. The hot stuff was to telnet via com port to the linux box via serial port FROM the BBS server and make use of bash scripting for menus and navigation. Ohot stuff that! OpenWindows was the XWindows default. (Still works nicely on MDK 9.1, too...hehehehhehe). When FvWM hit, THAT was hot stuff. Took ages to figure out how to add programs to the menus. OpenLook was easier because the text files for the menus sat in /usr/openwin/include - so it was really nicer to have running even though FvWM looked nicer. Sitting through an OS/2 installation was preferable to doing the Slackware installation, and took less time (believe THAT!). RH's first installation in 1994 wasn't much better than Slackware's - and I thought RH would die quickly and Slackware would rule. WRONG. Wow, that brings back memories...or is it mammories? What's slackware? -- Sun Jun 8 16:00:01 EST 2003 16:00:01 up 1 day, 1:51, 3 users, load average: 0.10, 0.15, 0.11 - | __ __ |kuhn media australia | | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn | | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * A filter set contains all imaginable wavelengths and widths- except the one combination you need -- Ralf's Laws of Observational Astronomy n6 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -Cody Harris ++ | Linux Rox My Sox! | | Check out HCHS! | | http://vectec.net | ++--+ | Proud to use Mandrake Linux 8.1 as a server. | | Not proud to use Windows as a primary server. | ++--+ | Registered Linux user #315598 | | Registered Linux Computer #200951 | | Wrote on a Windoze Computer :( | ++
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
The Other wrote: On Saturday 07 June 2003 05:07 pm, Cody Harris wrote: Can someone come up with a few good reasons to switch from XP to Linux? Someone wants to know the pros and cons and why he should switch. -Cody Harris 06/07/03 1. My current system was designed from components I selected in the Spring of 1998. At that time Win98 wasn't out yet, or if it was I didn't have the $100+ to upgrade to it. I did get a copy of Windows NT 4.0 for the ability to run programs in their own space, so that one crashing app wouldn't take down the entire machine. How many flavors of Windows have been released since 1998? Take that number and multiply by $100+ to keep your Operating System current. I spent $80 for Mandrake 9.1 Power Pack, and I've already got it set up to keep the Operating System current from free downloads on the Internet. How much will that save me over the next 5 years if I had stayed with Windows? 2. I have no hard evidence to support this theory, but my gut tells me that the hardware drivers in Linux are tighter code than in Windows. Linux drivers seem to offer better performance than the comparable Windows driver. I speculate this might be because Linux is not a profit driven Operating System. This is significant. The driver writers are not faced with production deadlines. This allows them to take their time, test extensively, and tweak the code to the ninth degree. As a result the code is smaller and more efficient with less logic errors (bugs). I also speculate the Linux driver coders are doing it out of a labor of love. They have the hardware and they want Linux to be able to talk to it. 3. From my very brief look into the Linux world and the Open ?Source? concept, the documentation for the kernel and the drivers are made public to everyone. This allows talented programmers from around the world to develop code that will integrate with another's code. It's a worldwide community of programmers all following the same development guidelines. The final code versions should be very stable given the thousands of users/testers. Windows will never have the ability to have this amount of extensive testing. Summarizing my main selling points are: 1) Linux code is better, and 2) the Linux price is better. However, if you are dealing with computer illiterate people, a version of Windows is probably better since Windows development has evolved to make a desktop that is as human proof as possible. Not so - Windows generally allows the user to cause untold damage. OK, with XP, there are ways of limiting that, but I hear most users don't employ them. When my workmates sit down at my Linux box, I always reassure them - Don't worry, it's impossible for you to do any damage. In contrast, I remember when the school I was working in in 1992 got it's first computer, running Windows 3.1, IIRC. The director banned any of use from using it until he'd had a week to work out the system and find any pitfalls - he didn't want us proles breaking it. Two days later, it had to be sent back to the vendor because with a few fatal mourse clicks, he'd deleted the entire contents of C: drive. Sir Robin -- Some guy breaking into a government computer system and wreaking havoc makes for a more interesting movie plot than some guy writing device drivers. It's hard to work in a good 10-minutes car chase scene with some guy who writes device drivers... - post to LWN Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 21:47, Adolfo Bello wrote: Excellent, Stephen. It is going to be part of my arsenal when speaking about Linux. Very nice! Muchas gracias, amigo. Appreciated greatly. -- Sun Jun 8 22:10:00 EST 2003 22:10:00 up 1 day, 8:01, 3 users, load average: 0.10, 0.12, 0.04 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * 62. I didn't think anybody would be doing any work at 2am, so I killed your job. --Top 100 things you don't want the sysadmin to say Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 21:48, Cody Harris wrote: What's slackware? SLACKWARE is yet another distribution. Actually, one of the first. Now, in the true sense of having humour, there should be Bludgeware, RedNeck Linux, Susie LINUX, Mandracula, Debbie does LINUX, UnUnited LINUX, Spindows, One flew over the cuckoo's nested loop, Hitchhiker's Guide to Linux, Don't eat that YellowSnow Linux PeePeeSee, RD Linux (Really Difficult), LinuXP (Linux Experienced), Yoda Linx (after YOPER), Sheepnix (for New Zealanders), Beernix (for Aussies, Germans and Poles), Whinge-nix (for the whiny crowd), Crispix (for those living in Waco, Texas), ICEnix (for the ice-hockey loving crowd), WicketNIX for the cricket loving crowd (installs really well in Australia, India, New Zealand and the West Indies, but never seems to install properly or work properly in the UK); the list can go on and on! (grin) -- Sun Jun 8 22:10:00 EST 2003 22:10:00 up 1 day, 8:01, 3 users, load average: 0.10, 0.12, 0.04 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * 62. I didn't think anybody would be doing any work at 2am, so I killed your job. --Top 100 things you don't want the sysadmin to say Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 11:13, Aron Smith wrote: On Sat, 2003-06-07 at 15:53, JoeHill wrote: On 08 Jun 2003 08:15:25 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: 1.) Cost 2.) Support 3.) Security 4.) Control 5.) Stability 6.) Features 7.) Multifunctionality without overhead cost 8.) Performance 9.) Installation time 10.) Customisation 11.) Comes with 3 GB of pr0n. You must be running the D.O.M (Dirty Old Man ) Edition where can I get it? Sir Robin and I are going to market this new distro. From the beginning of the installation all through it's casual usage, it's aimed at being totally pr0n centred - even the themes are pr0n based. Not only does it come with all the normal bells and whistles, but we've renamed the beloved Tux to _ux, renamed Sylpheed to Syphillis, and more. Also comes with 10 complimentary CD's of international pr0n - each main CD focusing on a particular cultures sexual tastes. Instead of buttons, you have tits'n'arse to click on. Mouse pointers are actually penises. Normal system beeps and bells have been replaced with groans, moans and screams. When KDE starts up, you hear Oh God, it's coming! It's coming! It's - AAHHH - it's done! Hey, how did my name get in there? Sir Robin -- Some guy breaking into a government computer system and wreaking havoc makes for a more interesting movie plot than some guy writing device drivers. It's hard to work in a good 10-minutes car chase scene with some guy who writes device drivers... - tjc, post to LWN Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
Not XPSpecific but Nope, it's not about money. I could drone on about all of the GREAT things about Linux and OSS (Open Source Software) in general but that has been covered by the list already. All I can say is he should try it, I mean really try it. Try it for 6 months. He should try to NOT use any MS products for that 6 months. I am certain that the benefits will be self explanatory after that time for him. My PERSONAL reasons for using Linux/OSS: Freedom - the freedom to use, modify and in general, play with my software with a level of transparency simply not available with Windows. Modifiable - Being able to modify most things on my computer through simple, text editable text files, without the worry/hassle of a registry of any kind. Value/Cost for performance - in my experience, Linux and OSS offer a price for performance return that Windows doesn't even come close to. Community - I like being part of a community of my choice, rather than being a slave to a company in Redmond that uses my net's back channel to report my usage behaviors and buying decisions - all for my own supposed benefit. Helping others - I can help others by introducing them to Linux for almost no cost without feeling like I am stealing and without fear of getting caught pirating Stability - the feeling that I can do almost anything to/with my PC and not have to worry about lock ups or slowing system performance. No need to do a general reboot every few days/hours just to keep my system fuctioning normally. Security - I know EXACTLY who has access to my computer and when, and I can easily control it. Choice - I have PLENTY of money to buy MS software, thankfully I have the CHOICE not to, which I gladly exercise. Interopability - I can use software that adheres to global, well documented and open computing standards instead of using software that has its own standards that don't play nice with anyone else's, forcing me to use that, and only that software. Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 11:13, Aron Smith wrote: On Sat, 2003-06-07 at 15:53, JoeHill wrote: On 08 Jun 2003 08:15:25 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: 1.) Cost 2.) Support 3.) Security 4.) Control 5.) Stability 6.) Features 7.) Multifunctionality without overhead cost 8.) Performance 9.) Installation time 10.) Customisation 11.) Comes with 3 GB of pr0n. You must be running the D.O.M (Dirty Old Man ) Edition where can I get it? Sir Robin and I are going to market this new distro. From the beginning of the installation all through it's casual usage, it's aimed at being totally pr0n centred - even the themes are pr0n based. Not only does it come with all the normal bells and whistles, but we've renamed the beloved Tux to _ux, renamed Sylpheed to Syphillis, and more. Also comes with 10 complimentary CD's of international pr0n - each main CD focusing on a particular cultures sexual tastes. Instead of buttons, you have tits'n'arse to click on. Mouse pointers are actually penises. Normal system beeps and bells have been replaced with groans, moans and screams. When KDE starts up, you hear Oh God, it's coming! It's coming! It's - AAHHH - it's done! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 08:57, Robin Turner wrote: Hey, how did my name get in there? Sir Robin ROTFLMAO Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sunday June 8 2003 12:15 am, Stephen Kuhn wrote: Look, 90% of the world DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO INSTALL WINDOWS - they buy a computer with Windows already installed. IF they had to install it themselves, it's a tough go - especially on a machine that requires all kinda special drivers and proprietary BS to get it to work properly. ON THAT SAME NOTE, when I sell a linux computer to a customer, it's already installed and configured, the ONLY thing they have to do is to put in their ISP's phone number and other settings for email, and well, that's about that. This is an apples and oranges thing now. Most of the world DOES NOT install their OS. Someone does it for them And in having someone do it for them, things are going to get done FOR them that they cannot or will not do. The ONLY OS that's brainlessly installed is MacOS. Windows is NOT easy to install and configure. OS/2 is NOT easy to install and configure. BeOS was NOT easy to install and configure. Any version of Windows is not/has not/will not be easy to install and configure. Linux is no different. Wait, sorry, I used to so Solaris setups on Sparcs, and that was BRAINLESS as well - I only had to know how to configure the networking - which I had to say yes to DHCP and then that was it. If you had your first computer experiences with someone delivering a system to you with everything already setup and configured, what would your perceptions be? I have customers that are literal dummies, but yet, they're running linux and they don't really know or care less either which way. They can surf, do email, chat, play tunes and DVD's - they don't care. They don't care that it's not Windows. Nothing breaks - so they don't have to worry about it anyways. They never have questions for me or call with silly problems because they can't have those same problems on the OS they're running. Occasionally I explain how to download and install something (just double click on the program and it installs!) - and that's about it. No dramas. If you were brought up only using a Mac, every other OS is strange and has problems. If you were brought up only using linux, every other OS is strange4 and has problems. If you were brought up only using Windows, every other OS is strange and has problems. It's a matter of what you're familiar with and how you're basing your perceptions, mate. Alright you, where's the real Stephen an what did you do to 'em? You can't post logical stuff to this list an try'n pretend you're Stephen. I'm wise to ya bub ; -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:43:04 -0500 Tom Brinkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Alright you, where's the real Stephen an what did you do to 'em? You can't post logical stuff to this list an try'n pretend you're Stephen. I'm wise to ya bub ; I was gonna say, he did sound strangely...coherent. Next thing you know, I'll stop arguing :D -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 11:48:24 up 5 days, 9:52, 4 users, load average: 0.06, 0.06, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
Linux has made great strides to become useable for the average user, and it will continue to do so. Regardless, for virtually every windows program, there is some piece of equivalent software in some phase of development that is free. It has made great strides, for sure. One area where there is lacking is that every hardware manufacturer tests their stuff on windows. Somehow some still manage to not work, but usu hardware works in window. That seems to be what most of the *problems* with linux (on this list for example) deal with: getting such-and-such hardware to work. I still can't get acpi and the parallel port to play together. I am not complaining, i love linux, and it feels so good to be back home. But, i also want to be fair and admit to some of the challenges we face. My windows only friends could have installed XP on my computer no problem (i swear this damn thing was built to only work for windows) but linux has been much tricker. For the record i'd like to reiterate that i am not bashing linux in any way: i love it here and am never turning back. eric Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
quoting Cody Harris's missive of Saturday 07 June 2003 06:56 pm: whack Mild rant alert! Please excuse. On Saturday 07 June 2003 05:07 pm, Cody Harris wrote: Can someone come up with a few good reasons to switch from XP to Linux? Someone wants to know the pros and cons and why he should switch. -Cody Harris chop 2. I have no hard evidence to support this theory, but my gut tells me that the hardware drivers in Linux are tighter code than in Windows. Linux drivers seem to offer better performance than the comparable Windows driver. You may be not entirely correct with these assumptions. Part of the reason that drivers for specific hardware under GNU/Linux work better than their Windows counterparts is simply that the code is written to the hardware, and to the kernel. Since nearly all of the popular hardware is at least in part Windows-centric; and since most manufacturers of hardware are at least partly beholden to the W-Intel oligopoly for their existence, as well as not wanting their 'competitors' to know too much about the architecture of the latest Whizbang 1, they tell open source coders almost nothing about the actual architecture of the devices. The code is clean because it's the bare necessity to make the hardware work at all. Once it's improved and updated it starts becoming bloated like the drivers for Windows. To the point that features that are added are covers for previous features, and corrections for features that nobody wanted or used. Oh wait; aren't those features called *bugs?* Sorry. I speculate this might be because Linux is not a profit driven Operating System. This is significant. The driver writers are not faced with production deadlines. This allows them to take their time, test extensively, and tweak the code to the ninth degree. As a result the code is smaller and more efficient with less logic errors (bugs). I also speculate the Linux driver coders are doing it out of a labor of love. They have the hardware and they want Linux to be able to talk to it. 3. From my very brief look into the Linux world and the Open ?Source? concept, the documentation for the kernel and the drivers are made public to everyone. This allows talented programmers from around the world to develop code that will integrate with another's code. It's a worldwide community of programmers all following the same development guidelines. The final code versions should be very stable given the thousands of users/testers. Windows will never have the ability to have this amount of extensive testing. Summarizing my main selling points are: 1) Linux code is better, and 2) the Linux price is better. GNU/Linux distributors would dearly love to profit by their work. The premise that there's nothing hidden is a different scenario than not wanting people to actually _pay_ for the software the developers sweat blood over. They just don't usually insist on payment as often. Companies such as MandrakeSoft (totally GPL, meaning you can download a complete working distribution) offer something many people wouldn't have if they weren't here. i.e: An operating system that (usually) doesn't require the latest hardware, complete and self contained and production ready. Free; in both the speech (Libre) and the beer (Gratuit) sense. But they rely on a sense of fairness, honour, and a willingness to pay for value in others that; based on my 46 years of observation and analysis, doesn't exist in most human beings. Human nature in this case means that people won't pay for anything they aren't forced to. Not if it's free. Yet. That paradigm is what's led the company to the brink of financial disaster as much as the business model (stupidity) of previous management. It's a conundrum that won't be resolved until we (the community) all start paying what we can for what we get. Not everyone can afford to buy a box set, not everyone can pay an annual subscription to The Club, but almost all of us can pay something. The question is 'What's it worth?' to any of us. That's utterly subjective and I don't want answers, since you are the only one that needs to know. I've answered the question for myself, it's your turn. I'm still here. However, if you are dealing with computer illiterate people, a version of Windows is probably better since Windows development has evolved to make a desktop that is as human proof as possible. *Wrong.* I've helped people with absolutely no computer experience whatsoever start using their own first system, and I've always (since late 1999, early 2000) started them with Mandrake. Built them the box (or helped them do it, or showed them how to get a bare bones), helped them install the OS, helped them connect to the internet for the first time, made their default browser home page Google and explained why, and how to change it later and never _once_ have any of them wondered why (until much later) they
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 22:57, Robin Turner wrote: Hey, how did my name get in there? Sir Robin I needed a scapegoat (g) -- Mon Jun 9 08:55:00 EST 2003 08:55:00 up 1 day, 18:46, 3 users, load average: 0.77, 0.30, 0.10 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Noncombatant: A dead Quaker. -- Ambrose Bierce Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 01:43, Tom Brinkman wrote: Alright you, where's the real Stephen an what did you do to 'em? You can't post logical stuff to this list an try'n pretend you're Stephen. I'm wise to ya bub ; Sorry, I was suffering from a slight bout of philanthropy. -- Mon Jun 9 09:05:00 EST 2003 09:05:00 up 1 day, 18:56, 3 users, load average: 0.01, 0.10, 0.08 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * I put up my thumb... and it blotted out the planet Earth. -- Neil Armstrong Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
At 03:21 PM 6/8/2003 +1000, you wrote: Sir Robin and I are going to market this new distro. From the beginning of the installation all through it's casual usage, it's aimed at being totally pr0n centred - even the themes are pr0n based. Not only does it come with all the normal bells and whistles, but we've renamed the beloved Tux to _ux, renamed Sylpheed to Syphillis, and more. Also comes with 10 complimentary CD's of international pr0n - each main CD focusing on a particular cultures sexual tastes. Instead of buttons, you have tits'n'arse to click on. Mouse pointers are actually penises. Normal system beeps and bells have been replaced with groans, moans and screams. When KDE starts up, you hear Oh God, it's coming! It's coming! It's - AAHHH - it's done! I hope you make a lesbian friendly one too! :D - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 08 Jun 2003 17:17:28 -0600 FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: I hope you make a lesbian friendly one too! :D I think that version might be just as popular with the straight males! -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 19:31:08 up 5 days, 17:34, 4 users, load average: 0.16, 0.03, 0.01 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
quoting Cody Harris's missive of Sunday 08 June 2003 02:10 pm: snip It took 4 hours to install MDK 8.1, and 60 mins for Windoze. That must have included the time required to figure out what the hell all of those packages were in the individual package selection type install, then deciding which ones you wanted. Granted it is a *really long* list but This box is only a Pentium 3 500 MHz and it did _not_ take that long to do a *network* install of 9.1 from a network.img floppy. (This entails downloading and installing from a mirror. No CDs involved) From scratch! On a totally new unformatted hard drive. :-) That took just over an hour over my cable modem. Minimal install, just internet and multi-media workstation, and then added packages after (Open Office, games, xscreensavers, Texstars KDE packages, a few others); maybe another 30 to 40 minutes. What were you doing for the other (roughly) 3 hours? Installing Windows in your sleep? g My friends all have Windoze. They send me windoze programs and we play Windoze games and run Windoze stuff. -Cody Harris It almost sounds as though Windows may be right for you, and that's OK Cody. But please don't dismiss GNU/Linux in general; and Mandrake in particular, just because it's different and doesn't do things the Windows Way©. Two major points in relating a Mandrake (or almost any other GNU/Linux, but especially Mandrake) install to a Windows install: 1.) In Mandrake if the hardware in the box or attached to it is supported at all it installs, and is ready for use, when you first boot to user space. Printers and scanners or ZIP drives and flash readers will need some configuration probably, but not much else. Usually. Unless the user screwed something up at the summary screen. We all know who we are, don't we? :-) In Windows you have to be certain you have all of the drivers for everything in the box or attached to it before you start or you're hooped. I've had to chase down drivers for network cards, modems, printers, scanners, video, ad nauseum, for every Windows install I've ever been forced to help anyone with. This usually happens due to the standard My machine came with Windows preinstalled computer that the person bought needing Reinstall Windows every 90 days (at least) whether you think it's needed or not maintenance. It usually is. Then the operating system will whine about the drivers or refuse to load them. Cause they ain't signed. Which is a joke since the signatures are wide open and any cracker can fake them. Don't forget genuflections to the Gods of Redmond and Saints Steve B. and Craig M. Or is the requirement a virgin sacrifice this year? I can never recall. How many times will you have to reboot to register the drivers and (maybe) make things work? System restore? HAH! 2.) After installing Mandrake you still own the box. You have the option to connect to a network or the internet or not, decide whether to send any information to the distributor of the operating system. You _have control_ of everything that goes in or out of what you paid for. Can reboot as many times as your equipment will without running into the limited functionality warnings. You don't have to ask the owner's permission to listen to music, read a document, surf the 'net, watch a video. After installing Windows. Can you say Frisbee®? ;-) Regards; Charlie -- Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org Mandrake 9.1 Bamboo (cooked) 16:23:54 up 26 days, 8:27, 3 users, load average: 0.20, 0.13, 0.11 Krogt, n. (chemical symbol: Kr): The metallic silver coating found on fast-food game cards. -- Rich Hall, Sniglets Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 09:17, FemmeFatale wrote: I hope you make a lesbian friendly one too! :D - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt ...and one dedicated to Priscilla: Queen of the Desert -- Mon Jun 9 10:05:00 EST 2003 10:05:00 up 1 day, 19:56, 3 users, load average: 0.16, 0.12, 0.09 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Fine day to work off excess energy. Steal something heavy. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
At 07:32 PM 6/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: On Sun, 08 Jun 2003 17:17:28 -0600 FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: I hope you make a lesbian friendly one too! :D I think that version might be just as popular with the straight males! -- Joehill yes i call that sacriledge! Appropriating lesbian themes/icons/etc will be penalized by death!!! or castration... whichever comes first I enjoy more. :D - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
At 05:50 PM 6/8/2003 -0600, you wrote: quoting Cody Harris's missive of Sunday 08 June 2003 02:10 pm: snip Usually. Unless the user screwed something up at the summary screen. We all know who we are, don't we? :-) OK now you're just pointing fingers Don't blame me! So i reinstall linux alot... is that to mean I have a Windows mentality?? Or just that i'm good @ breaking things randomly? Same diff? :D After installing Windows. Can you say Frisbee®? ;-) Regards; Charlie Pfft i'm going for the Guiness Record with that thing ! its good for something! SEE!? - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
At 10:10 AM 6/9/2003 +1000, you wrote: On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 09:17, FemmeFatale wrote: I hope you make a lesbian friendly one too! :D - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt ...and one dedicated to Priscilla: Queen of the Desert damn rights! my g/f would buy that in 30 seconds. :D - FemmeFatale, aka The Skirt Good Decisions Your boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
1) runs faster 2) takes up less hard drive space 3) takes less time to load on to your computer and you practically have everything you need without loading a lot of other programs on it 4) dont need to keep rebooting From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cody Harris Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 6:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can someone come up with a few good reasons to switch from XP to Linux? Someone wants to know the pros and cons and why he should switch. -Cody Harris ++ | Linux Rox My Sox! | | Check out HCHS! | | http://vectec.net | ++--+ | Proud to use Mandrake Linux 8.1 as a server. | | Not proud to use Windows as a primary server. | ++--+ | Registered Linux user #315598 | | Registered Linux Computer #200951 | | Wrote on a Windoze Computer :( | ++
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
That's a very personal matter... But I'll give you my quick top-5: (didn't think of it for a long time, so please don't take it too serious) First of all, M$ is about money, Linux is about quality and consumer/user-needs. Linux distro's and most of the applications are FREE! Windows is kinda standard, with a lot of different looks if you please, linux is about tweaking the system for your own desires. Windows is ordinar and almost everybody uses it, Linux is a challenge ;-) Portability of file-formats isn't a really big issue anymore. I managed to run M$Office, macromedia flash etc on my Linux-box, which I needed for school. While using Linux, it's very easy to learn how your computer works, while windows keeps those things hided (which is not a bad case for most users, but I find it rather annoying) On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 00:07, Cody Harris wrote: Can someone come up with a few good reasons to switch from XP to Linux? Someone wants to know the pros and cons and why he should switch. -Cody Harris ++ | Linux Rox My Sox! | | Check out HCHS!| | http://vectec.net | ++--+ | Proud to use Mandrake Linux 8.1 as a server. | | Not proud to use Windows as a primary server. | ++--+ | Registered Linux user #315598 | | Registered Linux Computer #200951 | | Wrote on a Windoze Computer :( | ++ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sat, 2003-06-07 at 15:15, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 08:07, Cody Harris wrote: Can someone come up with a few good reasons to switch from XP to Linux? Someone wants to know the pros and cons and why he should switch. -Cody Harris 1.) Cost 2.) Support 3.) Security 4.) Control 5.) Stability 6.) Features 7.) Multifunctionality without overhead cost 8.) Performance 9.) Installation time 10.) Customisation ...just off the top of my head. also it exercises the brain cells -- Aron Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
At 03:32 PM 6/7/2003 -0700, you wrote: On Sat, 2003-06-07 at 15:15, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 08:07, Cody Harris wrote: Can someone come up with a few good reasons to switch from XP to Linux? Someone wants to know the pros and cons and why he should switch. -Cody Harris 1.) Cost 2.) Support 3.) Security 4.) Control 5.) Stability 6.) Features 7.) Multifunctionality without overhead cost 8.) Performance 9.) Installation time 10.) Customisation ...just off the top of my head. also it exercises the brain cells True, but sometimes in the morning you don't want to excersize. lol. -- Aron Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -Cody Harris ++ | Linux Rox My Sox! | | Check out HCHS! | | http://vectec.net | ++--+ | Proud to use Mandrake Linux 8.1 as a server. | | Not proud to use Windows as a primary server. | ++--+ | Registered Linux user #315598 | | Registered Linux Computer #200951 | | Wrote on a Windoze Computer :( | ++
RE: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 00:18, walt wrote: 1) runs faster 2) takes up less hard drive space 3) takes less time to load on to your computer and you practically have everything you need without loading a lot of other programs on it 4) dont need to keep rebooting I knew I should have said other things :-) Really nice answer is this. And.. I want to correct my previous mail. (pressed 'send' too quickly as usual). I wrote: Portability of file-formats isn't a really big issue anymore. I managed to run M$Office, macromedia flash etc on my Linux-box, which I needed for school. and I meant: People are working hard on projects like OpenOffice to display word-documents and others correctly. Even if you need windows-applications like Flash, there are possibilities. again, Steven Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
Steven Broos wrote: On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 00:18, walt wrote: 1) runs faster Questionable.Depending on how your Linux system is set up (services, wm etc.), XP may well run faster. 2) takes up less hard drive space Again, that depends on your system. 3) takes less time to load on to your computer and you practically have everything you need without loading a lot of other programs on it Definitely. I reinstalled Windows recently, and after breathing a sigh of relief when it finally installed correctly, I groaned as I realised that I then had to install a load of other stuff if I actually wanted it to do anything. 4) dont need to keep rebooting 5) Doesn't have a EULA which gives some company the right to inspect and alter the contents of your hard disk. 6) Doesn't contain spyware. Sir Robin -- A Perl script is correct if it gets the job done before your boss fires you. - Larry Wall Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Saturday 07 June 2003 05:07 pm, Cody Harris wrote: Can someone come up with a few good reasons to switch from XP to Linux? Someone wants to know the pros and cons and why he should switch. -Cody Harris 06/07/03 1. My current system was designed from components I selected in the Spring of 1998. At that time Win98 wasn't out yet, or if it was I didn't have the $100+ to upgrade to it. I did get a copy of Windows NT 4.0 for the ability to run programs in their own space, so that one crashing app wouldn't take down the entire machine. How many flavors of Windows have been released since 1998? Take that number and multiply by $100+ to keep your Operating System current. I spent $80 for Mandrake 9.1 Power Pack, and I've already got it set up to keep the Operating System current from free downloads on the Internet. How much will that save me over the next 5 years if I had stayed with Windows? 2. I have no hard evidence to support this theory, but my gut tells me that the hardware drivers in Linux are tighter code than in Windows. Linux drivers seem to offer better performance than the comparable Windows driver. I speculate this might be because Linux is not a profit driven Operating System. This is significant. The driver writers are not faced with production deadlines. This allows them to take their time, test extensively, and tweak the code to the ninth degree. As a result the code is smaller and more efficient with less logic errors (bugs). I also speculate the Linux driver coders are doing it out of a labor of love. They have the hardware and they want Linux to be able to talk to it. 3. From my very brief look into the Linux world and the Open ?Source? concept, the documentation for the kernel and the drivers are made public to everyone. This allows talented programmers from around the world to develop code that will integrate with another's code. It's a worldwide community of programmers all following the same development guidelines. The final code versions should be very stable given the thousands of users/testers. Windows will never have the ability to have this amount of extensive testing. Summarizing my main selling points are: 1) Linux code is better, and 2) the Linux price is better. However, if you are dealing with computer illiterate people, a version of Windows is probably better since Windows development has evolved to make a desktop that is as human proof as possible. The Other Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
At 07:44 PM 6/7/2003 -0500, you wrote: On Saturday 07 June 2003 05:07 pm, Cody Harris wrote: Can someone come up with a few good reasons to switch from XP to Linux? Someone wants to know the pros and cons and why he should switch. -Cody Harris 06/07/03 1. My current system was designed from components I selected in the Spring of 1998. At that time Win98 wasn't out yet, or if it was I didn't have the $100+ to upgrade to it. I did get a copy of Windows NT 4.0 for the ability to run programs in their own space, so that one crashing app wouldn't take down the entire machine. How many flavors of Windows have been released since 1998? Take that number and multiply by $100+ to keep your Operating System current. I spent $80 for Mandrake 9.1 Power Pack, and I've already got it set up to keep the Operating System current from free downloads on the Internet. How much will that save me over the next 5 years if I had stayed with Windows? 2. I have no hard evidence to support this theory, but my gut tells me that the hardware drivers in Linux are tighter code than in Windows. Linux drivers seem to offer better performance than the comparable Windows driver. I speculate this might be because Linux is not a profit driven Operating System. This is significant. The driver writers are not faced with production deadlines. This allows them to take their time, test extensively, and tweak the code to the ninth degree. As a result the code is smaller and more efficient with less logic errors (bugs). I also speculate the Linux driver coders are doing it out of a labor of love. They have the hardware and they want Linux to be able to talk to it. 3. From my very brief look into the Linux world and the Open ?Source? concept, the documentation for the kernel and the drivers are made public to everyone. This allows talented programmers from around the world to develop code that will integrate with another's code. It's a worldwide community of programmers all following the same development guidelines. The final code versions should be very stable given the thousands of users/testers. Windows will never have the ability to have this amount of extensive testing. Summarizing my main selling points are: 1) Linux code is better, and 2) the Linux price is better. However, if you are dealing with computer illiterate people, a version of Windows is probably better since Windows development has evolved to make a desktop that is as human proof as possible. I think that's where someone should step in and make it usable to the average non-computer literate person. It took my awhile to learn how to do things. I think that could be solved with a little more automation and not painstakingly doing everything. urpmi(sp?) is great, but what about someone that doesn't know about it? Windows update if good because it says: Here's a list of crap that we think will make your computer better. Even if it doesn't help. Of course, i'm saying this from experiance, so i'm most likly wrong. How many of you that have had wives that didn't know how to use the thing? PS: Sorry about spelling. The Other Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -Cody Harris ++ | Linux Rox My Sox! | | Check out HCHS! | | http://vectec.net | ++--+ | Proud to use Mandrake Linux 8.1 as a server. | | Not proud to use Windows as a primary server. | ++--+ | Registered Linux user #315598 | | Registered Linux Computer #200951 | | Wrote on a Windoze Computer :( | ++
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sat, 2003-06-07 at 15:53, JoeHill wrote: On 08 Jun 2003 08:15:25 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: 1.) Cost 2.) Support 3.) Security 4.) Control 5.) Stability 6.) Features 7.) Multifunctionality without overhead cost 8.) Performance 9.) Installation time 10.) Customisation 11.) Comes with 3 GB of pr0n. You must be running the D.O.M (Dirty Old Man ) Edition where can I get it? -- Aron Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 08:33, Cody Harris wrote: True, but sometimes in the morning you don't want to excersize. lol. I have several different logins to my system. I have a desktop/window manager environment for JUST DOING. It works, it's already setup and tweaked to my liking, I think of nothing when I login to that account - I just DO, I just PRINT, I just COMPOSE or do what I want for enjoyment or entertainment or whatever. I have another login for testing/tweaking/breaking fixing. Needs no explaining. I have yet another account for doing support work for my clients and for administering my system. I have yet another account for TEST security and generally mucking around. My level of thinking depends on what login I use (or SU to). My applications all work, my fave desktop is setup and runs without hassle, it's ergonomically tweaked to my particular liking and my particular mood of computing. It's clean, it shows me only the information I want to know/need to know. I get up at 4 a.m. every day to start my work day. I don't think until the kids are in school (after 9 a.m.). I don't want to bother with downloading virus definitions, running virus scans, rebooting, checking for spyware, running registry checks and checking log files to see what's been beating at my firewall. The computer stays live 24/7 and I hate rebooting unless I either have to, or the electricity cuts out. I refuse to use WinXP or Win2k any more because there's always too much shit to deal with when I simply want to do email and surf. I certainly don't like the world knowing what I'm doing when I'm either doing my email or surfing. Yet another reason to live in my happy linux world. If I have to think about something, then it's done for me, by me, and for a reason. Otherwise, as my wife is learning, things can run more than smoothly, and can be simpler than a Mac if the need is there. She REFUSES to think about what she's doing when she's plugging away at things - and now that she's had a taste, she reckons it's just like OSX, only that she can configure things moreso per HER tastes. She IS NOT computer literate, mind you. -- Sun Jun 8 13:35:00 EST 2003 13:35:00 up 23:26, 3 users, load average: 0.30, 0.09, 0.02 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * momentum, n.: What you give a person when they are going away. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 08:53, JoeHill wrote: On 08 Jun 2003 08:15:25 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: 1.) Cost 2.) Support 3.) Security 4.) Control 5.) Stability 6.) Features 7.) Multifunctionality without overhead cost 8.) Performance 9.) Installation time 10.) Customisation 11.) Comes with 3 GB of pr0n. Damn. I KNEW I should have ordered the PowerPack...now I know what's on all those other CD's and DVD's...damn damn damn... -- Sun Jun 8 13:45:00 EST 2003 13:45:00 up 23:36, 3 users, load average: 0.04, 0.12, 0.07 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Mulder: They're here, aren't they? Deep Throat: Mr Mulder, they've been here for a long, long time. The X-Files: Deep Throat Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:44:49 -0500 The Other [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 07 June 2003 05:07 pm, Cody Harris wrote: Can someone come up with a few good reasons to switch from XP to Linux? Someone wants to know the pros and cons and why he should switch. -Cody Harris 06/07/03 1. My current system was designed from components I selected in the Spring of 1998. At that time Win98 wasn't out yet, or if it was I didn't have the $100+ to upgrade to it. I did get a copy of Windows NT 4.0 for the ability to run programs in their own space, so that one crashing app wouldn't take down the entire machine. How many flavors of Windows have been released since 1998? Take that number and multiply by $100+ to keep your Operating System current. I spent $80 for Mandrake 9.1 Power Pack, and I've already got it set up to keep the Operating System current from free downloads on the Internet. How much will that save me over the next 5 years if I had stayed with Windows? 2. I have no hard evidence to support this theory, but my gut tells me that the hardware drivers in Linux are tighter code than in Windows. Linux drivers seem to offer better performance than the comparable Windows driver. I speculate this might be because Linux is not a profit driven Operating System. This is significant. The driver writers are not faced with production deadlines. This allows them to take their time, test extensively, and tweak the code to the ninth degree. As a result the code is smaller and more efficient with less logic errors (bugs). I also speculate the Linux driver coders are doing it out of a labor of love. They have the hardware and they want Linux to be able to talk to it. 3. From my very brief look into the Linux world and the Open ?Source? concept, the documentation for the kernel and the drivers are made public to everyone. This allows talented programmers from around the world to develop code that will integrate with another's code. It's a worldwide community of programmers all following the same development guidelines. The final code versions should be very stable given the thousands of users/testers. Windows will never have the ability to have this amount of extensive testing. Summarizing my main selling points are: 1) Linux code is better, and 2) the Linux price is better. However, if you are dealing with computer illiterate people, a version of Windows is probably better since Windows development has evolved to make a desktop that is as human proof as possible. The Other Except to virus-writers. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 10:56, Cody Harris wrote: I think that's where someone should step in and make it usable to the average non-computer literate person. It took my awhile to learn how to do things. I think that could be solved with a little more automation and not painstakingly doing everything. urpmi(sp?) is great, but what about someone that doesn't know about it? Windows update if good because it says: Here's a list of crap that we think will make your computer better. Even if it doesn't help. Of course, i'm saying this from experiance, so i'm most likly wrong. How many of you that have had wives that didn't know how to use the thing? Look, 90% of the world DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO INSTALL WINDOWS - they buy a computer with Windows already installed. IF they had to install it themselves, it's a tough go - especially on a machine that requires all kinda special drivers and proprietary BS to get it to work properly. ON THAT SAME NOTE, when I sell a linux computer to a customer, it's already installed and configured, the ONLY thing they have to do is to put in their ISP's phone number and other settings for email, and well, that's about that. This is an apples and oranges thing now. Most of the world DOES NOT install their OS. Someone does it for them And in having someone do it for them, things are going to get done FOR them that they cannot or will not do. The ONLY OS that's brainlessly installed is MacOS. Windows is NOT easy to install and configure. OS/2 is NOT easy to install and configure. BeOS was NOT easy to install and configure. Any version of Windows is not/has not/will not be easy to install and configure. Linux is no different. Wait, sorry, I used to so Solaris setups on Sparcs, and that was BRAINLESS as well - I only had to know how to configure the networking - which I had to say yes to DHCP and then that was it. If you had your first computer experiences with someone delivering a system to you with everything already setup and configured, what would your perceptions be? I have customers that are literal dummies, but yet, they're running linux and they don't really know or care less either which way. They can surf, do email, chat, play tunes and DVD's - they don't care. They don't care that it's not Windows. Nothing breaks - so they don't have to worry about it anyways. They never have questions for me or call with silly problems because they can't have those same problems on the OS they're running. Occasionally I explain how to download and install something (just double click on the program and it installs!) - and that's about it. No dramas. If you were brought up only using a Mac, every other OS is strange and has problems. If you were brought up only using linux, every other OS is strange4 and has problems. If you were brought up only using Windows, every other OS is strange and has problems. It's a matter of what you're familiar with and how you're basing your perceptions, mate. -- Sun Jun 8 15:05:01 EST 2003 15:05:01 up 1 day, 56 min, 3 users, load average: 0.20, 0.23, 0.13 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * The instruments of science do not in themselves discover truth. And there are searchings that are not concluded by the coincidence of a pointer and a mark. -- Fred Saberhagen, The Berserker Wars Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reasons for Linux
Just a thought, but keep in mind how much easier things have become. I'm not sure how many old-timers are on the list, but it used to be that in order to do just about anything, you had to compile it yourself. My first experience was with Slackware 3.x, and believe me, it was many times more difficult to get that box setup than nearly any setup I've done since. In Slackware 3.x, the kernel did not come compiled with networking enabled. We had to recompile the kernel for that (and since it was a P90, we had to wait 5 hours for it to finish compiling). Need to add modules to apache? Guess what, you'll have to recompile that too (unless you trust someone else's binary to work with your setup). Want a desktop environment? We had to compile that too... For that matter, the install program didn't even offer to partition automatically -- you had to know linux fdisk to set up all the partitions. Installation now is very nearly a painless process -- you pretty much select what packages you want to install, and then get guided through the configuration steps one by one. If you want to add more, well there are several GUI based front-ends for rpm installation purposes. For updates, you can download and install red-carpet, freely available from Ximian, Inc. for virtually every distribution. Linux has made great strides to become useable for the average user, and it will continue to do so. Regardless, for virtually every windows program, there is some piece of equivalent software in some phase of development that is free. Michael -- Michael Viron Systems Administration Team Simple End User Linux snip I think that's where someone should step in and make it usable to the average non-computer literate person. It took my awhile to learn how to do things. I think that could be solved with a little more automation and not painstakingly doing everything. urpmi(sp?) is great, but what about someone that doesn't know about it? Windows update if good because it says: Here's a list of crap that we think will make your computer better. Even if it doesn't help. Of course, i'm saying this from experiance, so i'm most likly wrong. How many of you that have had wives that didn't know how to use the thing? PS: Sorry about spelling. snip Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
