Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
Miark wrote: > Just a guess, but how about making an ISO image of the cd and run > md5summer on the ISO file? Miark, I tried this once, and didn't get back the original md5sum. See: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/Md5sumsAfterBurning#An_Easy_CD_Creator_iso_image (and some of the headings before that). I suspect that the iso (and it's md5sum) may vary depending on which software (and which options) are used to create the iso. I'm looking for data (or authoritative knowledge) to prove or disprove the point. If you (or anyone else) downloads and burns isos and can collect some data, it would be much appreciated. As the cited page is a wiki, you can add the data to the page yourself (or send it to me via the list). Randy Kramer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
Randy, > Now I see what md5summer can do -- it's interesting and helpful under > some circumstances, but is not quite what I was looking for (under > Windows). md5summer can calculate the md5sums for every file in a > directory or on a disk (and save them to a file), but cannot (AFAICT) > calculate one master md5sum for an entire burnt cdrom. (As I can do > under Linux using something like md5sum /dev/cdrom.) Just a guess, but how about making an ISO image of the cd and run md5summer on the ISO file? Miark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
Femme wrote: > Yes I have tried that Randy. Just do a "select all", after you've pointed it > to the CDRom itself. The files show up individually on the left. Once > you've hit select all, then just hit the button to verify or create the sums. > > Yes it does a whole bunch in a dir at once, stick the single md5sum as one > file & then will check it if you tell it to do so. > > :) I love it. Femme, Thanks again. Now I see what md5summer can do -- it's interesting and helpful under some circumstances, but is not quite what I was looking for (under Windows). md5summer can calculate the md5sums for every file in a directory or on a disk (and save them to a file), but cannot (AFAICT) calculate one master md5sum for an entire burnt cdrom. (As I can do under Linux using something like md5sum /dev/cdrom.) I guess what I could do is run md5summer on all the files on a cdrom, store the results in a file, then run md5sum(mer) on the resulting file. Presumably I could find software to do the same thing in Linux (because part of what I want is a Linux / Windows independent way of generating an md5sum for a burnt cdrom. (In other words, a calculation that can be performed in Windows or in Linux and develop the same result.) regards, Randy Kramer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
On Monday 08 April 2002 01:41 pm, you wrote: > Femme wrote: > > Well that program I mention does generate them for a CDRom ISO, > > image/whatever you need it for. > > > > Thats why I use it. I don't do alot of MD5Sum stuff in linux yet. > > > > So I searched that out. > > > > ;p > > > > Icq me if you wish to get the little program and don't want to search. > > Email me for my #. > > Thanks again! I downloaded the program -- interesting. With only a > quick glance, it appears it can calculate the md5sum for multiple > files/directories (and maybe even make a master sum by adding them > together or something?), but I don't quickly see a way to do an md5sum > of an entire burnt Cdrom. Have you tried that? > > regards, > Randy Kramer Yes I have tried that Randy. Just do a "select all", after you've pointed it to the CDRom itself. The files show up individually on the left. Once you've hit select all, then just hit the button to verify or create the sums. Yes it does a whole bunch in a dir at once, stick the single md5sum as one file & then will check it if you tell it to do so. :) I love it. Perfectly newbie-stupid stuff some of us need ;p Femme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
Femme wrote: > Well that program I mention does generate them for a CDRom ISO, > image/whatever you need it for. > > Thats why I use it. I don't do alot of MD5Sum stuff in linux yet. > > So I searched that out. > > ;p > > Icq me if you wish to get the little program and don't want to search. Email > me for my #. Thanks again! I downloaded the program -- interesting. With only a quick glance, it appears it can calculate the md5sum for multiple files/directories (and maybe even make a master sum by adding them together or something?), but I don't quickly see a way to do an md5sum of an entire burnt Cdrom. Have you tried that? regards, Randy Kramer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
On Saturday 06 April 2002 06:10 pm, you wrote: > FemmeFatale, > > Thanks for the response. The common programs in Windows work Ok for me, > but I haven't found a way to get the md5sum of a cdrom (in Windows). > > Randy Kramer > > FemmeFatale wrote: > > I found the most common md5 sum program for windows sucks. > > > > For me, MD5Summer * I kid not, thats its name* Just rocks ;p > > > > Newbie-stupid & works fast. It will even generate sums, b/c i cannot > > figure out how to use the sums LM provides properly...and when I've > > tried it fails. Well that program I mention does generate them for a CDRom ISO, image/whatever you need it for. Thats why I use it. I don't do alot of MD5Sum stuff in linux yet. So I searched that out. ;p Icq me if you wish to get the little program and don't want to search. Email me for my #. Femme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
On Saturday 06 April 2002 05:47 pm, you wrote: Well I do my major d/ls & stuff in windows still. However I hadn't realized the ISO is what you had to check! DUUH K I will go get a dunce cap now. *sigh* I kept checking the actual MD5Sum file. :\ Can we say "NOOB"? I knew you could boys & girls ;p Femme > > Femme, for MD5SUM this is how I have used it for the .iso files and it > should work for any type file this way: > in a console : cd to the directory the files are in such as on a cdrom > disk cd /mnt/cdrom then at the prompt type: md5sum nameoffile.i586.iso > or whatever it could be "nameoffile.1mdk.i586.rpm" in any case once the > file name is typed then hit enter and it will chug away for a while and > then spit out the alpha numeric string 32 bit I believe that you can > compare to what was shown on the download site . It has worked for me > every time. HTH Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
FemmeFatale, Thanks for the response. The common programs in Windows work Ok for me, but I haven't found a way to get the md5sum of a cdrom (in Windows). Randy Kramer FemmeFatale wrote: > I found the most common md5 sum program for windows sucks. > > For me, MD5Summer * I kid not, thats its name* Just rocks ;p > > Newbie-stupid & works fast. It will even generate sums, b/c i cannot > figure out how to use the sums LM provides properly...and when I've > tried it fails. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
Seedkum, Thanks for the response! Randy Kramer Seedkum Aladeem wrote: > I am not familiar with the ISO format, but if the ordering of the information > inside the ISO is not standardized, then even without any padding bytes > mentioned in the WEB page you refer to, the check sum would not be > reproducible. As I said, I am not familiar with the ISO format but I am > making this inference using my early background in encryption, data > compression and error correction. The md5sum would be much more useful if the > information ordering inside the ISO is standardized (e.g. alphabetical > ordering of files and directories etc.). By the way, I am not familiar with > the md5sum either. I never looked inside it I just used it. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
On Saturday 06 April 2002 05:16 pm, you wrote: > Randy Kramer wrote: > > Seedkum Aladeem wrote: > > > A- Make the install utility do the md5sum tests automatically before > > > the install is done. > > > > Point A raises a point -- AFAICT, the md5sum on a burned CDROM is > > different than the md5sum of the downloaded ISO (I've pretty well > > convinced myself of this). Even worse, the md5sum *may* differ > > depending on which software you use to burn it, and which options you > > choose. > > > > I have a page on WikiLearn dedicated to learning more about these > > points: > > > > http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/Md5sumsAfterBurning > > > > Look it over, and if you can contribute any data points or > > understanding, please feel free to do it yourself as it is a wiki, or > > write to the list or me and I will edit the page. > > > > Randy Kramer > > I found the most common md5 sum program for windows sucks. > > For me, MD5Summer * I kid not, thats its name* Just rocks ;p > > Newbie-stupid & works fast. It will even generate sums, b/c i cannot > figure out how to use the sums LM provides properly...and when I've > tried it fails. > > Shrugs. YMMV > > Femme Femme, for MD5SUM this is how I have used it for the .iso files and it should work for any type file this way: in a console : cd to the directory the files are in such as on a cdrom disk cd /mnt/cdrom then at the prompt type: md5sum nameoffile.i586.iso or whatever it could be "nameoffile.1mdk.i586.rpm" in any case once the file name is typed then hit enter and it will chug away for a while and then spit out the alpha numeric string 32 bit I believe that you can compare to what was shown on the download site . It has worked for me every time. HTH -- Dennis M. linux user #180842 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
Randy Kramer wrote: > > Seedkum Aladeem wrote: > > A- Make the install utility do the md5sum tests automatically before the > > install is done. > > > Point A raises a point -- AFAICT, the md5sum on a burned CDROM is > different than the md5sum of the downloaded ISO (I've pretty well > convinced myself of this). Even worse, the md5sum *may* differ > depending on which software you use to burn it, and which options you > choose. > > I have a page on WikiLearn dedicated to learning more about these > points: > > http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/Md5sumsAfterBurning > > Look it over, and if you can contribute any data points or > understanding, please feel free to do it yourself as it is a wiki, or > write to the list or me and I will edit the page. > > Randy Kramer I found the most common md5 sum program for windows sucks. For me, MD5Summer * I kid not, thats its name* Just rocks ;p Newbie-stupid & works fast. It will even generate sums, b/c i cannot figure out how to use the sums LM provides properly...and when I've tried it fails. Shrugs. YMMV Femme -- Good Decisions You boss Made: "We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts." - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
On Saturday 06 April 2002 09:00 am, you wrote: > Seedkum Aladeem wrote: > > A- Make the install utility do the md5sum tests automatically before the > > install is done. > > B- Make the installer utility do the memory test (and any other inportant > > test that may be neseccary) before the install is done. Heck do them also > > after the install is complete too. > > I like the idea of including these on the install, but making them > optional. > > Point A raises a point -- AFAICT, the md5sum on a burned CDROM is > different than the md5sum of the downloaded ISO (I've pretty well > convinced myself of this). Even worse, the md5sum *may* differ > depending on which software you use to burn it, and which options you > choose. > > I have a page on WikiLearn dedicated to learning more about these > points: > > http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/Md5sumsAfterBurning > > Look it over, and if you can contribute any data points or > understanding, please feel free to do it yourself as it is a wiki, or > write to the list or me and I will edit the page. > > Randy Kramer I am not familiar with the ISO format, but if the ordering of the information inside the ISO is not standardized, then even without any padding bytes mentioned in the WEB page you refer to, the check sum would not be reproducible. As I said, I am not familiar with the ISO format but I am making this inference using my early background in encryption, data compression and error correction. The md5sum would be much more useful if the information ordering inside the ISO is standardized (e.g. alphabetical ordering of files and directories etc.). By the way, I am not familiar with the md5sum either. I never looked inside it I just used it. Seedkum Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
Seedkum Aladeem wrote: > A- Make the install utility do the md5sum tests automatically before the > install is done. > B- Make the installer utility do the memory test (and any other inportant > test that may be neseccary) before the install is done. Heck do them also > after the install is complete too. I like the idea of including these on the install, but making them optional. Point A raises a point -- AFAICT, the md5sum on a burned CDROM is different than the md5sum of the downloaded ISO (I've pretty well convinced myself of this). Even worse, the md5sum *may* differ depending on which software you use to burn it, and which options you choose. I have a page on WikiLearn dedicated to learning more about these points: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/Md5sumsAfterBurning Look it over, and if you can contribute any data points or understanding, please feel free to do it yourself as it is a wiki, or write to the list or me and I will edit the page. Randy Kramer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
On Saturday 06 April 2002 04:17 am, you wrote: > On Saturday 06 April 2002 12:46 am, Seedkum Aladeem wrote: > > Somehow, it looks like that there may have been more issues than > > there was with LM 8.0 or 8.1. > > Very true, but keep in mind most problems are user, then hardware. > 'Least ways I've found that the interface between the keyboard, mouse > and chair accounts for ~85% of my difficulties, 'bout 10% hardware. > When I keep this in mind, problems seem easier to resolve. Approaching > from the opposite direction and assuming the OS or software involved is > the culprit, makes problems damn near, if not impossible to fix. > >It gets old. When 7.2 was released, many were sayin "7.0 was fine, > installed great, but 7.2 won't, I'm waitin for 7.+" Update a year or > so and replace 7 with 8 in the above. Next year use 9. SOS-DD > Mandrake's got it goin on in that they are free. Proof's in the puddin, > new releases are made available (along with source), before the boxed > sets even get to the stores. I'd feel guilty as heck if it weren't for > the Mandrake Club. > >If you wanna run the best posible Linux currently available, you > might wanna update your chair or hardware. Micro$oft has a better idea > in this respect. They make their OS and software so that it's even > worse than the K/M/C interface and/or sloppy hardware. Works OK for > ~90% desktop users and Dell, who have low expectations to begin with. > I've yet to find but a few situations that weren't solved by upgrading > the chair or changin frequencies (yep, your computer is just a > different kind'a radio set). With Linux you can change channels at > will. > > YMMV This only confirms that most of the users are fools like me, and that Linux needs to be fool proof. There is nothing wrong with Linux. The fools are the problem. Rigby FUD says Linux is the problem. Fools will fall in love with Linux if it becomes fool proof. Linux could do with an injection of hormones. Seedkum Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
On Saturday 06 April 2002 01:02 am, you wrote: > Damian wrote: > >El sáb, 06-04-2002 a las 03:46, Seedkum Aladeem escribió: > >>Somehow, it looks like that there may have been more issues than there > >> was with LM 8.0 or 8.1. It might be a good idea to have a bug fix > >> release before the boxed version comes out. If only to blunt possible > >> smear campains that may come from Redmond. And besides, many complain > >> that Linux requires users to be more computer savvy than for the Redmond > >> OS. Making possible converts go through rpm updates may not help dispel > >> the perception that Linux is for geeks. Many may return to Redmond never > >> come back again. Just read the Rigby "FUD". Personally, I would not mind > >> a delay in the release of the boxed version if need be. > > > >i agree that 8.2 seems to be a little more problematic, ( judging only > >by amount of posts. personally i had about 0 problems ) > >but, including a post from civileme stating that an installation > >using only Download disc 1 leaves you with a broken KDE... > > > > > >however i assume that the greater amount of glitches is due to the > >introduction of new features. it's only natural. next release > >will probably be less innovative but will work better... > > > > > >anyway i guess Mandrake is better off ( and probably already ) > >working on 9.0 ( or will they release 8.3? ) > > > >in any case, i wouln't make a new release of the distro just to > >avoid FUD.. if the guys at MDK feel they need to fix stuff, they will. > > > >Damian > > > > > > > > > > > >Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? > >Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com > > Sorry, the broken KDE and GNOME from a single disk install will stand. > Itis not an error. You really need at least two CDs and preferably > three to make this work with such things as openoffice and java and > KDE3. RH has a beta out with three CDs and it will NOT stop install > with only one or two. In fact, CD3 contains the kernel, so installing > it with less than 3 is impossible. > > WinXP installs from one CD, but you will have notepad and solitaire for > apps. With a linux distro, you get quite a few apps. Peanut linux is > still one CD, bt it has exactly two WMs and lacks many applications. > > Most of what I have seen in the way of difficulties fall into three > categories: > > 1. Incomplete installs, often from the fact that getting a CD or DVD > drive to read what a CDRW hath written is problematic, and may have VERY > HIGH failure rates, especially for older drives reading 700Mb CDs and > for ultra-fast drives which should never have been manufactured (They > aren't ultra-fast, just ultra-high spin and do a lot of retries). > > 2. Lack of knowledge about msec and what it does and why. This is > particularly acute right now because we scrubbed some useless firewall > configurations to revamp the tools so they teach better and offer more > options to people in an understandable way and people are turning to > msec which is essentially a static security setup, not as well > documented as most experts would prefer, and a mix of bash and Python > scripts. Anyway, some things work fine at msec level 2 but not at all > on msec level 4, and cannot be made to work at msec level 5 which is for > the people who want to run something like BIND safely. > > 3. Genuine bugs--there are always a few. Three seem to be frequently > reported, and a fourth is under crashtester investigation. > > 4. Supercessions and regressions--Something working in 8.1 isn't in 8.2 > because the new kernel was improved for faster virtual memory and not > all the drivers have been looked at. This means that folks with SiS630 > chipsets cannot easily get sound, and it means that there are NVidia > cards that are ahead of even our bleeding-edge curve that folks can buy > which simply aren't well supported yet, and it means that folks who > can't get SB Audigy cards to run well under Windows are complaining here > because they don't run well under linux either. And it means that the > drivers Promise sent out for their ATA/133 cards which don't work are to > be replaced by Promise's updated drivers in the first kernel update. > > But we aren't talking about a sufficient number of genuine bugs to > warrant a bugfix release. > > Civileme The answer to item (1) above is probably the following: A- Make the install utility do the md5sum tests automatically before the install is done. B- Make the installer utility do the memory test (and any other inportant test that may be neseccary) before the install is done. Heck do them also after the install is complete too. Seedkum Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
On Saturday 06 April 2002 5:59 am, Seedkum Aladeem wrote: > Hi, > > Is there a chance that there may be an LM 8.2.x bug fix version.released? > > Seedkum Why bother? The neat new feature that invites installers to download the errata at the end of the install process in an ideal way to cut out a large proportion of the difficulties newbies suffer. I lost count of how many posts there were about things like "my floppy does not work", or "my computer hangs in shutdown after closing the usb ports" we had with 8.1 because users did not think of checking the errata pages. Some errata have appeared already. Some of the problems fixed have already been aired in this list. While it is doubtless true that some users will find 8.2 has a problem not present in 8.1 I am sure that for the bulk of users 8.2 will be a delight. My personal experience is that 8.2 is a lot faster- My laptop can now run KDE whereas before I had to use a light window manager, and all the Mandrake tools are a lot slicker and execute a lot faster. For example in 8.1 software manager would take an eternity to fill its lists and synchronise to an ftp server. In 8.2 it comes up in a few seconds. Of course there are still issues with 8.2. Two items I have found which have not been mentioned yet on the list AFAIK are:- The checkinstall rpm seems to be broken.- The rpm on the checkinstall site however works perfectly. The kreatecd rpm has been compiled badly so some features will not work. Compiling from source from the kreatecd site is necessary. derek Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
On Saturday 06 April 2002 08:17 pm, Tom opened a hailing frequency and transmitted: > On Saturday 06 April 2002 12:46 am, Seedkum Aladeem wrote: > > Somehow, it looks like that there may have been more issues than > > there was with LM 8.0 or 8.1. > > Very true, but keep in mind most problems are user, then hardware. > 'Least ways I've found that the interface between the keyboard, mouse > and chair accounts for ~85% of my difficulties, 'bout 10% hardware. > When I keep this in mind, problems seem easier to resolve. Approaching > from the opposite direction and assuming the OS or software involved is > the culprit, makes problems damn near, if not impossible to fix. too true! i must be special, i have had less trouble with every install. 8.1 was nearly perfect, and 8.2 has _one_single_problem_ so far as i can tell. well 2 if i count that scanner i have that has no linux driver yet, but since it is plugged into my daughters toy machine i don't mind it much -- "'Tis some script kidd3z," I muttered, "tapping at my server port- Only this, and nothing more." - Edgar "root" Poe. shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 @ http://counter.li.org/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
El sáb, 06-04-2002 a las 03:46, Seedkum Aladeem escribió: > Somehow, it looks like that there may have been more issues than there was > with LM 8.0 or 8.1. It might be a good idea to have a bug fix release before > the boxed version comes out. If only to blunt possible smear campains that > may come from Redmond. And besides, many complain that Linux requires users > to be more computer savvy than for the Redmond OS. Making possible converts > go through rpm updates may not help dispel the perception that Linux is for > geeks. Many may return to Redmond never come back again. Just read the Rigby > "FUD". Personally, I would not mind a delay in the release of the boxed > version if need be. i agree that 8.2 seems to be a little more problematic, ( judging only by amount of posts. personally i had about 0 problems ) but, including a post from civileme stating that an installation using only Download disc 1 leaves you with a broken KDE... however i assume that the greater amount of glitches is due to the introduction of new features. it's only natural. next release will probably be less innovative but will work better... anyway i guess Mandrake is better off ( and probably already ) working on 9.0 ( or will they release 8.3? ) in any case, i wouln't make a new release of the distro just to avoid FUD.. if the guys at MDK feel they need to fix stuff, they will. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Bug fix release.
Somehow, it looks like that there may have been more issues than there was with LM 8.0 or 8.1. It might be a good idea to have a bug fix release before the boxed version comes out. If only to blunt possible smear campains that may come from Redmond. And besides, many complain that Linux requires users to be more computer savvy than for the Redmond OS. Making possible converts go through rpm updates may not help dispel the perception that Linux is for geeks. Many may return to Redmond never come back again. Just read the Rigby "FUD". Personally, I would not mind a delay in the release of the boxed version if need be. Seedkum On Friday 05 April 2002 09:53 pm, Damian wrote: > El sáb, 06-04-2002 a las 01:59, Seedkum Aladeem escribió: > > Hi, > > > > Is there a chance that there may be an LM 8.2.x bug fix version.released? > > > > Seedkum > > ... you think we may need one? > > Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
