RE: Whining...

[Maglinger, Paul]

ES40 alphas to rx2660 and rx6600 Itaniums.

-Original Message-
From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

Yeah? Cool. What vintage Alpha and what model itanium?

I think HP may be the single largest distributor of them outside of
Intel, if not even larger.

Of course, HP was a significant contributor to their development with
Intel... I think there's some PA-RISC lineage in it.

-sc

> -Original Message-
> From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:51 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> I like our Itaniums.  We're running HP-UX on them and those machines
are
> fast.  Migrated from Tru-64 on Alphas and saw run times on jobs
reduced
> from 4 hours to 23 minutes.  Oh yeah, we like our Itaniums...
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:24 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> I wonder when Itanium will finally be killed off.
> 
> When it goes, the last _DIRECT_ lineage from Alpha goes away.
> 
> -sc
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:12 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
> 
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Matthew W. Ross
>  wrote:
> > In fear of taking this topic waaay of course...
> 
>   I'm not really sure it had much of a proper topic to begin with. :)
> 
> > There was a version of Windows XP for Itanium.
> 
>   No kidding.  I didn't know that.  What was it good for?  There's no
> x86 compatibility on the Itanium, right?  So almost no software.  I
guess
> maybe you could open *really big* files in Notepad... ;-)
> 
> > Ever see 127 USB devices plugged into the same root USB port?
> 
>   Hah!
> 
>Hmmm, a few of these would come in handy:
> 
> http://thepirata.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/49_port_usb_hub_01-
> 499x3
> 33.jpg
> 
> -- Ben
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining... (mysql)

[Ken Schaefer]

The low-end SKUs for SQL Server are free now (both for use, and to redistribute 
with applications). MSDE's been that way for years...

Cheers
Ken

-Original Message-
From: Oliver Marshall [mailto:oliver.marsh...@g2support.com] 
Sent: Friday, 16 July 2010 3:08 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining... (mysql)

On that note, I'm always amazed that so much software still uses SQL server for 
no apparent reason, forcing companies to shell out 000s over the cost of 
whatever software you are buying...when they could just use MySQL instead, save 
the client loads of initial outlay, resources, etc

We run loads of IT management software and the amount of software we use that 
runs on SQL Server and yet doesn’t use 1/10th of the SQL feature set is amazing.


--
G2 Support
Network Support : Online Backups : Server Management

Email:  oliver.marsh...@g2support.com
Web:http://www.g2support.com



-Original Message-
From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
Sent: 15 July 2010 21:02
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

... and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL 
solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)

But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real differences 
between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a database. Data 
goes in, and you pull data out.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Cameron Cooper
[mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
12:46:01 -0700
Subject: RE: Whining...


> Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers 
> (hardware and
> software)
>
> - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor 
> (we need unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new 
> servers = boss and ceo that pucker
>
> I just work here.
>
> _
> Cameron Cooper
> Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc
> Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com | 
> www.aurico.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
> Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail?
>
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
>
> c   – 312.731.3132
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: OT: Whining...
>
> We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license 
> version of SQL Server 2008.
>
> I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to 
> Provantage yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available 
> anymore.
>
> They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
>
> Ouch.
>
> Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the 
> moment, nor an EA, so we're buying box retail.
>
> We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
>
> They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony 
> up for the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
>
> Sigh.
>
> Just venting.
>
> Don't mind me...
>
> Kurt


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
>> This imposed certain constraints (sharp horizontal color changes had 
>> artifacts,
>> and moving sprites are practically impossible), but it gave the machine a 
>> 4096
>> color display on much cheaper hardware.
>
> Sprites were limited. I can't specifically remember, but it may have been to 
> 32 or 64 colors.

  I am just summarizing the Wikipedia article (never really got into
the Amiga much, though I was aware of them and thought some of the
tech was impressive), so this may be inaccurate, but the issue
identified with sprites in the HAM mode was that because each pixel is
defined in terms of a difference vs the previous pixel, you can't just
blit a bunch of pixels across the screen because it will artifact like
crazy at the edges.  It said the other video modes (which used a
traditional indexed palette) did not have that issue.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Whining...

[Michael B. Smith]

Sorry, it was two bit planes with two bitmaps for a total of 16 colors.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 6:08 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

Sprites were limited. I can't specifically remember, but it may have been to 32 
or 64 colors.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 5:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> When the Amiga first came out, it featured a HAM (Hold and Modify) 
> graphics mode that supported 4,096 colors plus alpha. At the time, that was 
> huge.

  Never heard of it.  Looked it up.[1]  Wow, what a brilliant hack.
Briefly, the video generator was capable of 12-bit color, but the system didn't 
have the memory bandwidth that would have been needed to back a full color 
image.  So each pixel is divided into R, G, B components, and each pixel is 
defined in terms of the difference of
*one* of those components vs the previous pixel.  This imposed certain 
constraints (sharp horizontal color changes had artifacts, and moving sprites 
are practically impossible), but it gave the machine a 4096 color display on 
much cheaper hardware.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold-And-Modify

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Kurt Buff]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 14:58, Ben Scott  wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Kurt Buff  wrote:
>> And then came the video toaster, which was often used to replace very
>> expensive chiron machines.
>
>  What's a chiron machine?
>
>> Babylon 5, Max Headroom, and others, used it for special effects.
>
>  IIRC, the original BattleTech arcade VR video game system (the one
> where you sit in a full-scale simulated cockpit of an imaginary mecha)
> used an Amiga to power the graphics for each node, with some kind of
> proprietary interconnect or network.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BattleTech_Centers
>
> -- Ben

My bad - they were Chyrons. Machines to do graphics overlays for videos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_third

Kurt

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Whining...

[Michael B. Smith]

Sprites were limited. I can't specifically remember, but it may have been to 32 
or 64 colors.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 5:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> When the Amiga first came out, it featured a HAM (Hold and Modify) 
> graphics mode that supported 4,096 colors plus alpha. At the time, that was 
> huge.

  Never heard of it.  Looked it up.[1]  Wow, what a brilliant hack.
Briefly, the video generator was capable of 12-bit color, but the system didn't 
have the memory bandwidth that would have been needed to back a full color 
image.  So each pixel is divided into R, G, B components, and each pixel is 
defined in terms of the difference of
*one* of those components vs the previous pixel.  This imposed certain 
constraints (sharp horizontal color changes had artifacts, and moving sprites 
are practically impossible), but it gave the machine a 4096 color display on 
much cheaper hardware.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold-And-Modify

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Kurt Buff  wrote:
> And then came the video toaster, which was often used to replace very
> expensive chiron machines.

  What's a chiron machine?

> Babylon 5, Max Headroom, and others, used it for special effects.

  IIRC, the original BattleTech arcade VR video game system (the one
where you sit in a full-scale simulated cockpit of an imaginary mecha)
used an Amiga to power the graphics for each node, with some kind of
proprietary interconnect or network.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BattleTech_Centers

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> When the Amiga first came out, it featured a HAM (Hold and Modify) graphics
> mode that supported 4,096 colors plus alpha. At the time, that was huge.

  Never heard of it.  Looked it up.[1]  Wow, what a brilliant hack.
Briefly, the video generator was capable of 12-bit color, but the
system didn't have the memory bandwidth that would have been needed to
back a full color image.  So each pixel is divided into R, G, B
components, and each pixel is defined in terms of the difference of
*one* of those components vs the previous pixel.  This imposed certain
constraints (sharp horizontal color changes had artifacts, and moving
sprites are practically impossible), but it gave the machine a 4096
color display on much cheaper hardware.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold-And-Modify

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Whining...

[Jonathan Link]

Ahh, Babylon5.  Good memories.  Might have to dig out the DVDs...

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Kurt Buff  wrote:

> And then came the video toaster, which was often used to replace very
> expensive chiron machines.
>
> Babylon 5, Max Headroom, and others, used it for special effects.
>
> Kurt
>
> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 13:54, Michael B. Smith 
> wrote:
> > When the Amiga first came out, it featured a HAM (Hold and Modify)
> graphics
> > mode that supported 4,096 colors plus alpha. At the time, that was huge.
> >
> >
> >
> > Not too long after that, 16 bit video cards were available, then 16 bit
> plus
> > alpha … etc.etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Amiga led in the graphics wars for a very long time.
> >
> >
> >
> > Remember – back then, b&w was the typical computer screen – one bit per
> > pixel. Sixteen colors (turtle graphics) pushed that up to 4 bits per
> pixel.
> >
> >
> >
> > 4,096 colors (12 bits) plus alpha (4 more bits) equaled 2 bytes of memory
> > per pixel !! For a typical 640x480 screen, that was 615K of RAM just for
> > video! Many computers didn’t have that much RAM for main memory.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael B. Smith
> >
> > Consultant and Exchange MVP
> >
> > http://TheEssentialExchange.com <http://theessentialexchange.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Crawford, Scott [mailto:crawfo...@evangel.edu]
> > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 4:31 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: RE: Whining...
> >
> >
> >
> > I got some promotional VHS from them that were fun to watch. One of the
> > quotes I fondly remember is “But, beware. Complex animations like these
> > require lots of memory. Sometimes more than a megabyte.”
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 3:26 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: Re: Whining...
> >
> >
> >
> > Indeed.
> >
> >
> >
> > -ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker <http://xeesm.com/AndrewBaker>
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Steven M. Caesare  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > Awesome. Amiga was some truly amazing hardware for its time, and the OS
> > remains under-appreciated IMO.
> >
> > They also had no idea what to really do to market it against the PeeCee
> >
> > -sc
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:44 PM
> >> To: NT System Admin Issues
> >
> >> Subject: RE: Whining...
> >>
> >> Just like Commodore. :-(
> >>
> >> [I did significant development on the Amiga platform, including I-Net
> > 225 and
> >> a number of other commercial applications.]
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Michael B. Smith
> >> Consultant and Exchange MVP
> >> http://TheEssentialExchange.com <http://theessentialexchange.com/>
> >>
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:40 PM
> >> To: NT System Admin Issues
> >> Subject: Re: Whining...
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Steven M. Caesare
> > 
> >> wrote:
> >> > I had a chance to play with NT4.0 on a 4-CPU Alpha box back in the
> > day.
> >> > Not a lot of appas available for it wither (hence the FX!32
> >> > emulation/dynamic compile layer), but it _SCREAMED_ at the time.
> >>
> >>   Yah, the Alpha was a sweet platform.
> >>
> >>   I remember someone telling the story that their i386 program was
> > faster on
> >> an Alpha running under FX!32 emulation than it was on native i386
> > hardware.
> >>
> >>   Compaq buying DEC was a sad moment in computer history.
> >> Unsurprising that DEC failed -- their marketing was horrible, and
> > their sales
> >> practices not much better -- but still sad.
> >>
> >> -- Ben
> >>
> >> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> >> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> >
> >
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Kurt Buff]

And then came the video toaster, which was often used to replace very
expensive chiron machines.

Babylon 5, Max Headroom, and others, used it for special effects.

Kurt

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 13:54, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> When the Amiga first came out, it featured a HAM (Hold and Modify) graphics
> mode that supported 4,096 colors plus alpha. At the time, that was huge.
>
>
>
> Not too long after that, 16 bit video cards were available, then 16 bit plus
> alpha … etc.etc.
>
>
>
> Amiga led in the graphics wars for a very long time.
>
>
>
> Remember – back then, b&w was the typical computer screen – one bit per
> pixel. Sixteen colors (turtle graphics) pushed that up to 4 bits per pixel.
>
>
>
> 4,096 colors (12 bits) plus alpha (4 more bits) equaled 2 bytes of memory
> per pixel !! For a typical 640x480 screen, that was 615K of RAM just for
> video! Many computers didn’t have that much RAM for main memory.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Michael B. Smith
>
> Consultant and Exchange MVP
>
> http://TheEssentialExchange.com
>
>
>
> From: Crawford, Scott [mailto:crawfo...@evangel.edu]
> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 4:31 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
>
>
> I got some promotional VHS from them that were fun to watch. One of the
> quotes I fondly remember is “But, beware. Complex animations like these
> require lots of memory. Sometimes more than a megabyte.”
>
>
>
> From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 3:26 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
>
>
>
> Indeed.
>
>
>
> -ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker
>
> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
> wrote:
>
> Awesome. Amiga was some truly amazing hardware for its time, and the OS
> remains under-appreciated IMO.
>
> They also had no idea what to really do to market it against the PeeCee
>
> -sc
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:44 PM
>> To: NT System Admin Issues
>
>> Subject: RE: Whining...
>>
>> Just like Commodore. :-(
>>
>> [I did significant development on the Amiga platform, including I-Net
> 225 and
>> a number of other commercial applications.]
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Michael B. Smith
>> Consultant and Exchange MVP
>> http://TheEssentialExchange.com
>>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:40 PM
>> To: NT System Admin Issues
>> Subject: Re: Whining...
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Steven M. Caesare
> 
>> wrote:
>> > I had a chance to play with NT4.0 on a 4-CPU Alpha box back in the
> day.
>> > Not a lot of appas available for it wither (hence the FX!32
>> > emulation/dynamic compile layer), but it _SCREAMED_ at the time.
>>
>>   Yah, the Alpha was a sweet platform.
>>
>>   I remember someone telling the story that their i386 program was
> faster on
>> an Alpha running under FX!32 emulation than it was on native i386
> hardware.
>>
>>   Compaq buying DEC was a sad moment in computer history.
>> Unsurprising that DEC failed -- their marketing was horrible, and
> their sales
>> practices not much better -- but still sad.
>>
>> -- Ben
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
>> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Michael B. Smith]

When the Amiga first came out, it featured a HAM (Hold and Modify) graphics 
mode that supported 4,096 colors plus alpha. At the time, that was huge.

Not too long after that, 16 bit video cards were available, then 16 bit plus 
alpha ... etc.etc.

Amiga led in the graphics wars for a very long time.

Remember - back then, b&w was the typical computer screen - one bit per pixel. 
Sixteen colors (turtle graphics) pushed that up to 4 bits per pixel.

4,096 colors (12 bits) plus alpha (4 more bits) equaled 2 bytes of memory per 
pixel !! For a typical 640x480 screen, that was 615K of RAM just for video! 
Many computers didn't have that much RAM for main memory.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

From: Crawford, Scott [mailto:crawfo...@evangel.edu]
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 4:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

I got some promotional VHS from them that were fun to watch. One of the quotes 
I fondly remember is "But, beware. Complex animations like these require lots 
of memory. Sometimes more than a megabyte."

From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 3:26 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

Indeed.

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
mailto:scaes...@caesare.com>> wrote:
Awesome. Amiga was some truly amazing hardware for its time, and the OS
remains under-appreciated IMO.

They also had no idea what to really do to market it against the PeeCee

-sc

> -Original Message-
> From: Michael B. Smith 
> [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com<mailto:mich...@smithcons.com>]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:44 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
> Just like Commodore. :-(
>
> [I did significant development on the Amiga platform, including I-Net
225 and
> a number of other commercial applications.]
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael B. Smith
> Consultant and Exchange MVP
> http://TheEssentialExchange.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com<mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com>]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Steven M. Caesare
mailto:scaes...@caesare.com>>
> wrote:
> > I had a chance to play with NT4.0 on a 4-CPU Alpha box back in the
day.
> > Not a lot of appas available for it wither (hence the FX!32
> > emulation/dynamic compile layer), but it _SCREAMED_ at the time.
>
>   Yah, the Alpha was a sweet platform.
>
>   I remember someone telling the story that their i386 program was
faster on
> an Alpha running under FX!32 emulation than it was on native i386
hardware.
>
>   Compaq buying DEC was a sad moment in computer history.
> Unsurprising that DEC failed -- their marketing was horrible, and
their sales
> practices not much better -- but still sad.
>
> -- Ben
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~










~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining... (mysql)

[Andrew S. Baker]

Very, very easy.

Microsoft has always been relatively developer-friendly, whether in the ease
of development (separate discussion needed for robustness of resulting code)
or the cost of development.

The bulk of Windows development costs are borne by the customers of the
apps, not the developers of said applications.

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker


On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Michael B. Smith wrote:

> That's an easy answer.
>
> MS-SQL is _easy_ to develop for in the Windows environment.
>
> SQL Express is free.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael B. Smith
> Consultant and Exchange MVP
> http://TheEssentialExchange.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Oliver Marshall [mailto:oliver.marsh...@g2support.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 3:08 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining... (mysql)
>
> On that note, I'm always amazed that so much software still uses SQL server
> for no apparent reason, forcing companies to shell out 000s over the cost of
> whatever software you are buying...when they could just use MySQL instead,
> save the client loads of initial outlay, resources, etc
>
> We run loads of IT management software and the amount of software we use
> that runs on SQL Server and yet doesn’t use 1/10th of the SQL feature set is
> amazing.
>
>
> --
> G2 Support
> Network Support : Online Backups : Server Management
>
> Email:  oliver.marsh...@g2support.com
> Web:http://www.g2support.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
> Sent: 15 July 2010 21:02
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
> ... and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL
> solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)
>
> But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real
> differences between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a
> database. Data goes in, and you pull data out.
>
>
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Cameron Cooper
> [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
> 12:46:01 -0700
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
>
> > Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers
> > (hardware and
> > software)
> >
> > - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> > - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor
> > (we need unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new
> > servers = boss and ceo that pucker
> >
> > I just work here.
> >
> > _
> > Cameron Cooper
> > Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc
> > Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com |
> > www.aurico.com
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: RE: Whining...
> >
> > Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brian Desmond
> > br...@briandesmond.com
> >
> > c   – 312.731.3132
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: OT: Whining...
> >
> > We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license
> > version of SQL Server 2008.
> >
> > I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to
> > Provantage yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not
> available anymore.
> >
> > They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
> >
> > Ouch.
> >
> > Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the
> > moment, nor an EA, so we're buying box retail.
> >
> > We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
> >
> > They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony
> > up for the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
> >
> > Sigh.
> >
> > Just venting.
> >
> > Don't mind me...
> >
> > Kurt
> >
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> >
> >
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security

RE: Whining...

[Crawford, Scott]

I got some promotional VHS from them that were fun to watch. One of the quotes 
I fondly remember is "But, beware. Complex animations like these require lots 
of memory. Sometimes more than a megabyte."

From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 3:26 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

Indeed.

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
mailto:scaes...@caesare.com>> wrote:
Awesome. Amiga was some truly amazing hardware for its time, and the OS
remains under-appreciated IMO.

They also had no idea what to really do to market it against the PeeCee

-sc

> -Original Message-
> From: Michael B. Smith 
> [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com<mailto:mich...@smithcons.com>]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:44 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
> Just like Commodore. :-(
>
> [I did significant development on the Amiga platform, including I-Net
225 and
> a number of other commercial applications.]
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael B. Smith
> Consultant and Exchange MVP
> http://TheEssentialExchange.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com<mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com>]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Steven M. Caesare
mailto:scaes...@caesare.com>>
> wrote:
> > I had a chance to play with NT4.0 on a 4-CPU Alpha box back in the
day.
> > Not a lot of appas available for it wither (hence the FX!32
> > emulation/dynamic compile layer), but it _SCREAMED_ at the time.
>
>   Yah, the Alpha was a sweet platform.
>
>   I remember someone telling the story that their i386 program was
faster on
> an Alpha running under FX!32 emulation than it was on native i386
hardware.
>
>   Compaq buying DEC was a sad moment in computer history.
> Unsurprising that DEC failed -- their marketing was horrible, and
their sales
> practices not much better -- but still sad.
>
> -- Ben
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~






~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Andrew S. Baker]

Indeed.

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker


On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Steven M. Caesare wrote:

> Awesome. Amiga was some truly amazing hardware for its time, and the OS
> remains under-appreciated IMO.
>
> They also had no idea what to really do to market it against the PeeCee
>
> -sc
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:44 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: RE: Whining...
> >
> > Just like Commodore. :-(
> >
> > [I did significant development on the Amiga platform, including I-Net
> 225 and
> > a number of other commercial applications.]
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Michael B. Smith
> > Consultant and Exchange MVP
> > http://TheEssentialExchange.com
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:40 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: Re: Whining...
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Steven M. Caesare
> 
> > wrote:
> > > I had a chance to play with NT4.0 on a 4-CPU Alpha box back in the
> day.
> > > Not a lot of appas available for it wither (hence the FX!32
> > > emulation/dynamic compile layer), but it _SCREAMED_ at the time.
> >
> >   Yah, the Alpha was a sweet platform.
> >
> >   I remember someone telling the story that their i386 program was
> faster on
> > an Alpha running under FX!32 emulation than it was on native i386
> hardware.
> >
> >   Compaq buying DEC was a sad moment in computer history.
> > Unsurprising that DEC failed -- their marketing was horrible, and
> their sales
> > practices not much better -- but still sad.
> >
> > -- Ben
> >
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

I think that was 10 years too late.. that was already the Palmer Era.

-sc

> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 11:09 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
> 
> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Steven M. Caesare

> wrote:
> > Well, later in life anyway when they couldn't figure out how to kill
> > their sacred VAX cow and movie on. For a good while, they were about
> > as good as it got, as I've gathered from many people who were their
> > customers and from reading I've done.
> 
>   From what I've heard: Their tech was always sweet.  And they were
easier
> to buy from than IBM, but that's damning with faint praise.
> 
>   Circa 1995 I was working for a place that was bought a lot of DEC
stuff, and
> from what I saw it was incredibly difficult to be a DEC customer.
Hard to get
> in touch with sales.  The joke was you had to argue with the sales
reps to
> convince them you really wanted to buy something.  Hard to know what
to
> buy.  You needed million line items to get a working configuration.
> Expensive.  Onerous licensing.  Etc, etc.  Maybe they had already
declined at
> that point; I dunno.
> 
> -- Ben
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
> Well, later in life anyway when they couldn't figure out how to kill
> their sacred VAX cow and movie on. For a good while, they were about as
> good as it got, as I've gathered from many people who were their
> customers and from reading I've done.

  From what I've heard: Their tech was always sweet.  And they were
easier to buy from than IBM, but that's damning with faint praise.

  Circa 1995 I was working for a place that was bought a lot of DEC
stuff, and from what I saw it was incredibly difficult to be a DEC
customer.  Hard to get in touch with sales.  The joke was you had to
argue with the sales reps to convince them you really wanted to buy
something.  Hard to know what to buy.  You needed million line items
to get a working configuration.  Expensive.  Onerous licensing.  Etc,
etc.  Maybe they had already declined at that point; I dunno.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

I know Fujitsu and NEC had some big systems... and I think they went the 
Itanium route.

-sc

> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:37 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> Windows - probably 2003 at that time.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
> 
> c   - 312.731.3132
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:17 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> Nice... what OS?
> 
> -sc
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:49 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: RE: Whining...
> >
> > I've seen pictures of tests of an IP Video solution on Itanium where
> > they had something like 512 NICs in the back of the box.
> >
> > The Itanium deployments were always narrow but they definitely do/did
> > exist. I still run into the boxes fairly frequently. IA64 Windows is dead
> though.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brian Desmond
> > br...@briandesmond.com
> >
> > c   - 312.731.3132
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:40 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: Re: Whining...
> >
> > In fear of taking this topic waaay of course...
> >
> > I used to contract for Intel, doing Bios Validation (for Linux) on
> > Itanium "Big Sur" platforms. (Notice, not Itanium 2.)
> >
> > There was a version of Windows XP for Itanium. They lady doing the
> > WHQL testing on it had a lot of fun doing it. (Ever see 127 USB
> > devices plugged into the same root USB port?) It ran well, but not any
> > better than a _much_ cheaper Pentium III of the time.
> >
> >
> >
> > So, yes. Itanium running Windows does work. Didn't Microsoft just
> > announce that they won't be making any more versions of Windows for
> IA64?
> >
> >
> > --Matt Ross
> > Ephrata School District
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: Ben Scott
> > [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> > Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
> > 16:26:22 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Whining...
> >
> >
> > > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Michael B. Smith
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > > > I believe (and it maps to my experience as well) that Brian uses "rogue"
> > > as
> > > > meaning "outside of established corporate standards".
> > >
> > >   Since the dawn of the computer age, there have been corporate
> > > standards, and there have been people finding ways around them in
> > > the interests of actually getting work done.  If you waved a magic
> > > wand and made all that "rogue" stuff instantly disappear, you'd
> > > create havoc just about everywhere.
> > >
> > >   Again, you need all the pieces, both big and small.  I'm sure
> > > you'd never find a megacorp running their ERP system on PostgreSQL
> > > (not yet, anyway).  But for want of a nail...
> > >
> > > > Arguably, MS-SQL reached performance respectability with SQL 2000 ...
> > >
> > >   Wasn't SQL 2000 still stuck on the 32-bit i386 architecture?
> > >   Oh, right, I forgot about IA-64.  (Just like the
> > > rest of the industry.  ;-) )  I admit I've never even seen an IA-64
> > > box in person.  How well does Microsoft's do on IA-64?  Is it like
> > > x86-64, where it was a red-headed stepchild for the first few
> > > releases (i.e., yes, you could run it, but there was a ton of stuff
> > > that didn't work right)?
> > >
> > >   BTW, in response to another subthread: According to Wikipedia,
> > > Microsoft rewrote most of the Sybase code for SQL 2000 (7.0).
> > >
> > > -- Ben
> > >
> > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> > > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> > >
> >
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> >
> >
> >
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Brian Desmond]

Windows - probably 2003 at that time. 

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c   - 312.731.3132


-Original Message-
From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:17 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

Nice... what OS?

-sc

> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:49 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> I've seen pictures of tests of an IP Video solution on Itanium where 
> they had something like 512 NICs in the back of the box.
> 
> The Itanium deployments were always narrow but they definitely do/did 
> exist. I still run into the boxes fairly frequently. IA64 Windows is dead 
> though.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
> 
> c   - 312.731.3132
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
> 
> In fear of taking this topic waaay of course...
> 
> I used to contract for Intel, doing Bios Validation (for Linux) on 
> Itanium "Big Sur" platforms. (Notice, not Itanium 2.)
> 
> There was a version of Windows XP for Itanium. They lady doing the 
> WHQL testing on it had a lot of fun doing it. (Ever see 127 USB 
> devices plugged into the same root USB port?) It ran well, but not any 
> better than a _much_ cheaper Pentium III of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> So, yes. Itanium running Windows does work. Didn't Microsoft just 
> announce that they won't be making any more versions of Windows for IA64?
> 
> 
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Ben Scott
> [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
> 16:26:22 -0700
> Subject: Re: Whining...
> 
> 
> > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Michael B. Smith 
> > 
> > wrote:
> > > I believe (and it maps to my experience as well) that Brian uses "rogue"
> > as
> > > meaning "outside of established corporate standards".
> >
> >   Since the dawn of the computer age, there have been corporate 
> > standards, and there have been people finding ways around them in 
> > the interests of actually getting work done.  If you waved a magic 
> > wand and made all that "rogue" stuff instantly disappear, you'd 
> > create havoc just about everywhere.
> >
> >   Again, you need all the pieces, both big and small.  I'm sure 
> > you'd never find a megacorp running their ERP system on PostgreSQL 
> > (not yet, anyway).  But for want of a nail...
> >
> > > Arguably, MS-SQL reached performance respectability with SQL 2000 ...
> >
> >   Wasn't SQL 2000 still stuck on the 32-bit i386 architecture?
> >   Oh, right, I forgot about IA-64.  (Just like the 
> > rest of the industry.  ;-) )  I admit I've never even seen an IA-64 
> > box in person.  How well does Microsoft's do on IA-64?  Is it like 
> > x86-64, where it was a red-headed stepchild for the first few 
> > releases (i.e., yes, you could run it, but there was a ton of stuff 
> > that didn't work right)?
> >
> >   BTW, in response to another subthread: According to Wikipedia, 
> > Microsoft rewrote most of the Sybase code for SQL 2000 (7.0).
> >
> > -- Ben
> >
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> >
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

Indeed it was already in development, but from what I've read Intel did
indeed incorporate some of the intellectual property in to Itanium from
Alpha program[7] (which in turn incorporated much of the cancelled
Prism[2] project within DEC[1])

-sc

[1] Geek lore would have it that the "AXP" designator on the "Alpha AXP"
chips stood for "Almost eXactly Prism"[3]
[2] Another Cutler project[4]
[3] The similarities were numerous: Palcode/Epicode, RISC instruction
set, the layout tuning, some register implementation, etc...
[4] No wonder NT[5] screamed on it
[5] Although at the time, it was to be the CPU for Mica[6]
[6] Which, as we've discussed here, was really NT v0.5 anyway
[7] Altho substantial details of exactly WHAT are hard to come by


> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:09 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
> 
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Steven M. Caesare

> wrote:
> > I wonder when Itanium will finally be killed off.
> > When it goes, the last _DIRECT_ lineage from Alpha goes away.
> 
>   Is Itanium really a direct descendant of the Alpha?  I know Compaq
later sold
> the Alpha intellectual property to Intel, but Itanium was already on
the
> market by then.
> 
> -- Ben
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

Yeah? Cool. What vintage Alpha and what model itanium?

I think HP may be the single largest distributor of them outside of
Intel, if not even larger.

Of course, HP was a significant contributor to their development with
Intel... I think there's some PA-RISC lineage in it.

-sc

> -Original Message-
> From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:51 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> I like our Itaniums.  We're running HP-UX on them and those machines
are
> fast.  Migrated from Tru-64 on Alphas and saw run times on jobs
reduced
> from 4 hours to 23 minutes.  Oh yeah, we like our Itaniums...
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:24 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> I wonder when Itanium will finally be killed off.
> 
> When it goes, the last _DIRECT_ lineage from Alpha goes away.
> 
> -sc
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:12 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
> 
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Matthew W. Ross
>  wrote:
> > In fear of taking this topic waaay of course...
> 
>   I'm not really sure it had much of a proper topic to begin with. :)
> 
> > There was a version of Windows XP for Itanium.
> 
>   No kidding.  I didn't know that.  What was it good for?  There's no
> x86 compatibility on the Itanium, right?  So almost no software.  I
guess
> maybe you could open *really big* files in Notepad... ;-)
> 
> > Ever see 127 USB devices plugged into the same root USB port?
> 
>   Hah!
> 
>Hmmm, a few of these would come in handy:
> 
> http://thepirata.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/49_port_usb_hub_01-
> 499x3
> 33.jpg
> 
> -- Ben
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

ME's dad used to work on VOD stuff.

 

-sc

 

From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 12:12 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

 

Don't forget what may be in your house: on-demand from cable company or
telco. ;)

 

Thanks,

Brian Desmond

br...@briandesmond.com

 

c   - 312.731.3132

 

From: Richard Stovall [mailto:rich...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:29 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

 

Lemme see...  IP Video, massive horsepower, state of the art
equipment...

 

It had to be streaming high-res satellite imagery for a clandestine
government organization.

 

Or pr0n.

 

Probably pr0n.

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Ben Scott 
wrote:

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Brian Desmond 
wrote:
> I've seen pictures of tests of an IP Video solution on Itanium where
they
> had something like 512 NICs in the back of the box.

 Holy cow.  Even with quad port NICs that's 128 slots.  I know they
have separate I/O modules on these things but even so that's gotta be
a big box.  :-)

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

 

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

Clendestine Gov't Pr0n!

 

-sc

 

From: Richard Stovall [mailto:rich...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:29 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

 

Lemme see...  IP Video, massive horsepower, state of the art
equipment...

 

It had to be streaming high-res satellite imagery for a clandestine
government organization.

 

Or pr0n.

 

Probably pr0n.

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Ben Scott 
wrote:

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Brian Desmond 
wrote:
> I've seen pictures of tests of an IP Video solution on Itanium where
they
> had something like 512 NICs in the back of the box.

 Holy cow.  Even with quad port NICs that's 128 slots.  I know they
have separate I/O modules on these things but even so that's gotta be
a big box.  :-)

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

Nice... what OS?

-sc

> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:49 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> I've seen pictures of tests of an IP Video solution on Itanium where they had
> something like 512 NICs in the back of the box.
> 
> The Itanium deployments were always narrow but they definitely do/did
> exist. I still run into the boxes fairly frequently. IA64 Windows is dead 
> though.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
> 
> c   - 312.731.3132
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
> 
> In fear of taking this topic waaay of course...
> 
> I used to contract for Intel, doing Bios Validation (for Linux) on Itanium 
> "Big
> Sur" platforms. (Notice, not Itanium 2.)
> 
> There was a version of Windows XP for Itanium. They lady doing the WHQL
> testing on it had a lot of fun doing it. (Ever see 127 USB devices plugged 
> into
> the same root USB port?) It ran well, but not any better than a _much_
> cheaper Pentium III of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> So, yes. Itanium running Windows does work. Didn't Microsoft just announce
> that they won't be making any more versions of Windows for IA64?
> 
> 
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Ben Scott
> [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
> 16:26:22 -0700
> Subject: Re: Whining...
> 
> 
> > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Michael B. Smith
> > 
> > wrote:
> > > I believe (and it maps to my experience as well) that Brian uses "rogue"
> > as
> > > meaning "outside of established corporate standards".
> >
> >   Since the dawn of the computer age, there have been corporate
> > standards, and there have been people finding ways around them in the
> > interests of actually getting work done.  If you waved a magic wand
> > and made all that "rogue" stuff instantly disappear, you'd create
> > havoc just about everywhere.
> >
> >   Again, you need all the pieces, both big and small.  I'm sure you'd
> > never find a megacorp running their ERP system on PostgreSQL (not yet,
> > anyway).  But for want of a nail...
> >
> > > Arguably, MS-SQL reached performance respectability with SQL 2000 ...
> >
> >   Wasn't SQL 2000 still stuck on the 32-bit i386 architecture?
> >   Oh, right, I forgot about IA-64.  (Just like the
> > rest of the industry.  ;-) )  I admit I've never even seen an IA-64
> > box in person.  How well does Microsoft's do on IA-64?  Is it like
> > x86-64, where it was a red-headed stepchild for the first few releases
> > (i.e., yes, you could run it, but there was a ton of stuff that didn't
> > work right)?
> >
> >   BTW, in response to another subthread: According to Wikipedia,
> > Microsoft rewrote most of the Sybase code for SQL 2000 (7.0).
> >
> > -- Ben
> >
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> >
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

Awesome. Amiga was some truly amazing hardware for its time, and the OS
remains under-appreciated IMO.

They also had no idea what to really do to market it against the PeeCee

-sc

> -Original Message-
> From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:44 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> Just like Commodore. :-(
> 
> [I did significant development on the Amiga platform, including I-Net
225 and
> a number of other commercial applications.]
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Michael B. Smith
> Consultant and Exchange MVP
> http://TheEssentialExchange.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
> 
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Steven M. Caesare

> wrote:
> > I had a chance to play with NT4.0 on a 4-CPU Alpha box back in the
day.
> > Not a lot of appas available for it wither (hence the FX!32
> > emulation/dynamic compile layer), but it _SCREAMED_ at the time.
> 
>   Yah, the Alpha was a sweet platform.
> 
>   I remember someone telling the story that their i386 program was
faster on
> an Alpha running under FX!32 emulation than it was on native i386
hardware.
> 
>   Compaq buying DEC was a sad moment in computer history.
> Unsurprising that DEC failed -- their marketing was horrible, and
their sales
> practices not much better -- but still sad.
> 
> -- Ben
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

Well, later in life anyway when they couldn't figure out how to kill
their sacred VAX cow and movie on. For a good while, they were about as
good as it got, as I've gathered from many people who were their
customers and from reading I've done.

I'd love to read a DEC tome along the lines of Soul of a New Machine or
Showstopper.

-sc

> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
> 
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Steven M. Caesare

> wrote:
> > I had a chance to play with NT4.0 on a 4-CPU Alpha box back in the
day.
> > Not a lot of appas available for it wither (hence the FX!32
> > emulation/dynamic compile layer), but it _SCREAMED_ at the time.
> 
>   Yah, the Alpha was a sweet platform.
> 
>   I remember someone telling the story that their i386 program was
faster on
> an Alpha running under FX!32 emulation than it was on native
> i386 hardware.
> 
>   Compaq buying DEC was a sad moment in computer history.
> Unsurprising that DEC failed -- their marketing was horrible, and
their sales
> practices not much better -- but still sad.
> 
> -- Ben
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
> I wonder when Itanium will finally be killed off.
> When it goes, the last _DIRECT_ lineage from Alpha goes away.

  Is Itanium really a direct descendant of the Alpha?  I know Compaq
later sold the Alpha intellectual property to Intel, but Itanium was
already on the market by then.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Whining...

[Maglinger, Paul]

I like our Itaniums.  We're running HP-UX on them and those machines are
fast.  Migrated from Tru-64 on Alphas and saw run times on jobs reduced
from 4 hours to 23 minutes.  Oh yeah, we like our Itaniums...

-Original Message-
From: Steven M. Caesare [mailto:scaes...@caesare.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:24 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

I wonder when Itanium will finally be killed off.

When it goes, the last _DIRECT_ lineage from Alpha goes away.

-sc

-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:12 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Matthew W. Ross
 wrote:
> In fear of taking this topic waaay of course...

  I'm not really sure it had much of a proper topic to begin with. :)

> There was a version of Windows XP for Itanium.

  No kidding.  I didn't know that.  What was it good for?  There's no
x86 compatibility on the Itanium, right?  So almost no software.  I
guess maybe you could open *really big* files in Notepad... ;-)

> Ever see 127 USB devices plugged into the same root USB port?

  Hah!

   Hmmm, a few of these would come in handy:

http://thepirata.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/49_port_usb_hub_01-499x3
33.jpg

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Cameron Cooper]

The main thing we would look for in the Enterprise edition (for now) would be 
the encryption of the database.  At this point we can get by with the Standard 
edition and find a 3rd party app that will do what we want.

_
Cameron Cooper
Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified
Aurico Reports, Inc
Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896
ccoo...@aurico.com | www.aurico.com


-Original Message-
From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:30 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

Can you get the perf you need out of a 2 socket box with six cores each?

What features are you using in the Enterprise SKU? 

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c   – 312.731.3132


-Original Message-
From: Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:46 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers (hardware and 
software)

- hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
- software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor (we need 
unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers = boss and 
ceo that pucker

I just work here.

_
Cameron Cooper
Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc
Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896
ccoo...@aurico.com | www.aurico.com


-Original Message-
From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail? 

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c   – 312.731.3132


-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: OT: Whining...

We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license version of 
SQL Server 2008.

I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to Provantage 
yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available anymore.

They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.

Ouch.

Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the moment, nor an 
EA, so we're buying box retail.

We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.

They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony up for 
the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.

Sigh.

Just venting.

Don't mind me...

Kurt

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining... (mysql)

[Michael B. Smith]

That's an easy answer.

MS-SQL is _easy_ to develop for in the Windows environment.

SQL Express is free.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Oliver Marshall [mailto:oliver.marsh...@g2support.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 3:08 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining... (mysql)

On that note, I'm always amazed that so much software still uses SQL server for 
no apparent reason, forcing companies to shell out 000s over the cost of 
whatever software you are buying...when they could just use MySQL instead, save 
the client loads of initial outlay, resources, etc

We run loads of IT management software and the amount of software we use that 
runs on SQL Server and yet doesn’t use 1/10th of the SQL feature set is amazing.


--
G2 Support
Network Support : Online Backups : Server Management

Email:  oliver.marsh...@g2support.com
Web:http://www.g2support.com



-Original Message-
From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
Sent: 15 July 2010 21:02
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

... and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL 
solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)

But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real differences 
between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a database. Data 
goes in, and you pull data out.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Cameron Cooper
[mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
12:46:01 -0700
Subject: RE: Whining...


> Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers 
> (hardware and
> software)
>
> - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor 
> (we need unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new 
> servers = boss and ceo that pucker
>
> I just work here.
>
> _
> Cameron Cooper
> Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc
> Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com | 
> www.aurico.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
> Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail?
>
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
>
> c   – 312.731.3132
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: OT: Whining...
>
> We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license 
> version of SQL Server 2008.
>
> I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to 
> Provantage yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available 
> anymore.
>
> They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
>
> Ouch.
>
> Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the 
> moment, nor an EA, so we're buying box retail.
>
> We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
>
> They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony 
> up for the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
>
> Sigh.
>
> Just venting.
>
> Don't mind me...
>
> Kurt
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

--
Network Support
Online Backups
Server Management

Tel: 0845 307 3443
Email: oliver.marsh...@g2support.com
Web: http://www.g2support.com
Twitter: g2support
Newsletter: http://www.g2support.com/newsletter
Mail: 2 Roundhill Road, Brighton, Sussex, BN2 3RF

Find out more about our referral gift scheme at www.g2support.com/referral

G2 Support LLP is registered at Mill House, 103 Holmes Avenue, HOVE
BN3 7LE. Our registered company number is OC316341.

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining... (mysql)

[Oliver Marshall]

On that note, I'm always amazed that so much software still uses SQL server for 
no apparent reason, forcing companies to shell out 000s over the cost of 
whatever software you are buying...when they could just use MySQL instead, save 
the client loads of initial outlay, resources, etc

We run loads of IT management software and the amount of software we use that 
runs on SQL Server and yet doesn’t use 1/10th of the SQL feature set is amazing.


--
G2 Support
Network Support : Online Backups : Server Management

Email:  oliver.marsh...@g2support.com
Web:http://www.g2support.com



-Original Message-
From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
Sent: 15 July 2010 21:02
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

... and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL 
solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)

But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real differences 
between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a database. Data 
goes in, and you pull data out.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Cameron Cooper
[mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
12:46:01 -0700
Subject: RE: Whining...


> Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers (hardware and
> software)
>
> - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor (we need
> unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers = boss and
> ceo that pucker
>
> I just work here.
>
> _
> Cameron Cooper
> Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified
> Aurico Reports, Inc
> Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896
> ccoo...@aurico.com | www.aurico.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
> Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail?
>
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
>
> c   – 312.731.3132
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: OT: Whining...
>
> We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license version
> of SQL Server 2008.
>
> I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to Provantage
> yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available anymore.
>
> They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
>
> Ouch.
>
> Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the moment, nor
> an EA, so we're buying box retail.
>
> We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
>
> They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony up for
> the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
>
> Sigh.
>
> Just venting.
>
> Don't mind me...
>
> Kurt
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

--
Network Support
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~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

  So, like he said: pr0n

  ;-)

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Brian Desmond  wrote:
> Don’t forget what may be in your house: on-demand from cable company or
> telco. ;)
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian Desmond
>
> br...@briandesmond.com
>
>
>
> c   – 312.731.3132
>
>
>
> From: Richard Stovall [mailto:rich...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:29 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
>
>
>
> Lemme see...  IP Video, massive horsepower, state of the art equipment...
>
>
>
> It had to be streaming high-res satellite imagery for a clandestine
> government organization.
>
>
>
> Or pr0n.
>
>
>
> Probably pr0n.
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Ben Scott  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Brian Desmond 
> wrote:
>> I've seen pictures of tests of an IP Video solution on Itanium where they
>> had something like 512 NICs in the back of the box.
>
>  Holy cow.  Even with quad port NICs that's 128 slots.  I know they
> have separate I/O modules on these things but even so that's gotta be
> a big box.  :-)
>
> -- Ben
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Brian Desmond]

Don't forget what may be in your house: on-demand from cable company or telco. 
;)

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c   - 312.731.3132

From: Richard Stovall [mailto:rich...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:29 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

Lemme see...  IP Video, massive horsepower, state of the art equipment...

It had to be streaming high-res satellite imagery for a clandestine government 
organization.

Or pr0n.

Probably pr0n.
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Ben Scott 
mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Brian Desmond 
mailto:br...@briandesmond.com>> wrote:
> I've seen pictures of tests of an IP Video solution on Itanium where they
> had something like 512 NICs in the back of the box.

 Holy cow.  Even with quad port NICs that's 128 slots.  I know they
have separate I/O modules on these things but even so that's gotta be
a big box.  :-)

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~






~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Richard Stovall]

Lemme see...  IP Video, massive horsepower, state of the art equipment...

It had to be streaming high-res satellite imagery for a clandestine
government organization.

Or pr0n.

Probably pr0n.

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Ben Scott  wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Brian Desmond 
> wrote:
> > I've seen pictures of tests of an IP Video solution on Itanium where they
> > had something like 512 NICs in the back of the box.
>
>  Holy cow.  Even with quad port NICs that's 128 slots.  I know they
> have separate I/O modules on these things but even so that's gotta be
> a big box.  :-)
>
> -- Ben
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Brian Desmond  wrote:
> I've seen pictures of tests of an IP Video solution on Itanium where they
> had something like 512 NICs in the back of the box.

  Holy cow.  Even with quad port NICs that's 128 slots.  I know they
have separate I/O modules on these things but even so that's gotta be
a big box.  :-)

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Brian Desmond  wrote:
> I've seen pictures of tests of an IP Video solution on Itanium where they
> had something like 512 NICs in the back of the box.

  Holy cow.  Even with quad port NICs that's 128 slots.  I know they
have separate I/O modules on these things but even so that's gotta be
a big box.  :-)

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Whining...

[Brian Desmond]

I've seen pictures of tests of an IP Video solution on Itanium where they had 
something like 512 NICs in the back of the box.

The Itanium deployments were always narrow but they definitely do/did exist. I 
still run into the boxes fairly frequently. IA64 Windows is dead though.

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c   - 312.731.3132


-Original Message-
From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

In fear of taking this topic waaay of course...

I used to contract for Intel, doing Bios Validation (for Linux) on Itanium "Big 
Sur" platforms. (Notice, not Itanium 2.)

There was a version of Windows XP for Itanium. They lady doing the WHQL testing 
on it had a lot of fun doing it. (Ever see 127 USB devices plugged into the 
same root USB port?) It ran well, but not any better than a _much_ cheaper 
Pentium III of the time.


So, yes. Itanium running Windows does work. Didn't Microsoft just announce that 
they won't be making any more versions of Windows for IA64?


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Ben Scott
[mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
16:26:22 -0700
Subject: Re: Whining...


> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Michael B. Smith 
> 
> wrote:
> > I believe (and it maps to my experience as well) that Brian uses "rogue"
> as
> > meaning "outside of established corporate standards".
> 
>   Since the dawn of the computer age, there have been corporate 
> standards, and there have been people finding ways around them in the 
> interests of actually getting work done.  If you waved a magic wand 
> and made all that "rogue" stuff instantly disappear, you'd create 
> havoc just about everywhere.
> 
>   Again, you need all the pieces, both big and small.  I'm sure you'd 
> never find a megacorp running their ERP system on PostgreSQL (not yet, 
> anyway).  But for want of a nail...
> 
> > Arguably, MS-SQL reached performance respectability with SQL 2000 ...
> 
>   Wasn't SQL 2000 still stuck on the 32-bit i386 architecture?
>   Oh, right, I forgot about IA-64.  (Just like the 
> rest of the industry.  ;-) )  I admit I've never even seen an IA-64 
> box in person.  How well does Microsoft's do on IA-64?  Is it like 
> x86-64, where it was a red-headed stepchild for the first few releases 
> (i.e., yes, you could run it, but there was a ton of stuff that didn't 
> work right)?
> 
>   BTW, in response to another subthread: According to Wikipedia, 
> Microsoft rewrote most of the Sybase code for SQL 2000 (7.0).
> 
> -- Ben
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Michael B. Smith]

Just like Commodore. :-(

[I did significant development on the Amiga platform, including I-Net 225 and a 
number of other commercial applications.]

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
> I had a chance to play with NT4.0 on a 4-CPU Alpha box back in the day.
> Not a lot of appas available for it wither (hence the FX!32 
> emulation/dynamic compile layer), but it _SCREAMED_ at the time.

  Yah, the Alpha was a sweet platform.

  I remember someone telling the story that their i386 program was faster on an 
Alpha running under FX!32 emulation than it was on native i386 hardware.

  Compaq buying DEC was a sad moment in computer history.
Unsurprising that DEC failed -- their marketing was horrible, and their sales 
practices not much better -- but still sad.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
> I had a chance to play with NT4.0 on a 4-CPU Alpha box back in the day.
> Not a lot of appas available for it wither (hence the FX!32
> emulation/dynamic compile layer), but it _SCREAMED_ at the time.

  Yah, the Alpha was a sweet platform.

  I remember someone telling the story that their i386 program was
faster on an Alpha running under FX!32 emulation than it was on native
i386 hardware.

  Compaq buying DEC was a sad moment in computer history.
Unsurprising that DEC failed -- their marketing was horrible, and
their sales practices not much better -- but still sad.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

I had a chance to play with NT4.0 on a 4-CPU Alpha box back in the day.
Not a lot of appas available for it wither (hence the FX!32
emulation/dynamic compile layer), but it _SCREAMED_ at the time.

-sc

-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:23 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Michael B. Smith
 wrote:
> Actually, a simple recompile for itanium (using Visual Studio) was all

> 64-bit clean code required.

  Yah, they said the same about 64-bit Linux on the Alpha, back in 1995.
Turns out most code isn't 64-bit clean.  :-(

  "If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then
the first woodpecker that came along would have destroyed civilization."
(Unknown)

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

I wonder when Itanium will finally be killed off.

When it goes, the last _DIRECT_ lineage from Alpha goes away.

-sc

-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:12 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Matthew W. Ross
 wrote:
> In fear of taking this topic waaay of course...

  I'm not really sure it had much of a proper topic to begin with. :)

> There was a version of Windows XP for Itanium.

  No kidding.  I didn't know that.  What was it good for?  There's no
x86 compatibility on the Itanium, right?  So almost no software.  I
guess maybe you could open *really big* files in Notepad... ;-)

> Ever see 127 USB devices plugged into the same root USB port?

  Hah!

   Hmmm, a few of these would come in handy:

http://thepirata.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/49_port_usb_hub_01-499x3
33.jpg

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

I know at the time that MS started using the Sybase code, it was still 
page-level, as opposed to row-level locking, and that was the _SINGLE_ biggest 
obstacle to competing with Oracle.

I believe that at least two MS versions with that code base were released, all 
the while there was a full-court press within MS to rebuild to support the more 
granular locking model. This was SQL Server 7, IIRC. It was pretty much a 
ground-up MS product at that point.

-sc

-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:43 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

Does Sybase really still share the same core code as MS-SQL? It's been a *long* 
time since they split.

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 15:25, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> Heh.
>
> Not a fan-boi at all. Neither MySQL or PostgreSQL has the rich set of 
> capabilities present in the MS-SQL, DB2, or Oracle _platforms_. Note that for 
> those three, it isn't just a database engine, it's an entire suite of 
> capabilities, programs, and systems.
>
> I'm not saying that they aren't fine products. I've used both fairly 
> extensively in various projects over the last dozen years. I've even 
> implemented MySQL solutions with striped databases and HA to enhance 
> performance and scalability for that solution.

>
> But to say that either of those has the rich infrastructure support and 
> analytic and BI capabilities of DB2, Oracle, or MS-SQL? That's simply not 
> true.
>
> Also, to look at performance and scalability, look at www.tpc.org. For 
> databases at 1 TB or larger, you do not find either MySQL or PostgreSQL 
> listed. You have the three I mentioned, plus Sybase (which shares the same 
> core codebase as MS-SQL) plus a special purpose database for OLTP.
>
> Regardless, we are all allowed to have our opinions. :-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael B. Smith
> Consultant and Exchange MVP
> http://TheEssentialExchange.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph L. Casale [mailto:jcas...@activenetwerx.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:56 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
>>Scalability.
>>
>>Performance.
>
> Well, I'd say there are a lot of nix based apps that require this and 
> get it out of my or pg:)
>
>>Operating systems.
>
> Yes, if your an MS shop without any nix experience, you have no choice...
> Do what you know...
>
>>I wrote an application for a customer that had to support three database 
>>platforms (Access [arguably not a real database, but still...], MySQL, and 
>>MS-SQL). It was a nightmare >getting it all right.
>
> Right, but that doesn’t address the inquiry as to why it wasn’t 
> written for *one* to start:) If you write it for MS, it’s the same amount of 
> work if you start out and write it for My or pg.
>
>>IMO, MS-SQL, Oracle, and DB2 are the "enterprise DB platforms" providing full 
>>support for clustering, mirroring, geographic dispersion, business 
>>intelligence, business >analytics, reporting, etc. MySQL and PostgresSQL 
>>aren't bad - but they aren't (again, IMO) full blown business analytic 
>>platforms.
>
> C'mon Michael, seriously? That’s a bit fan-boyish?:) With the utmost 
> GREATEST respect to you, I humbly disagree...
>
> There are some people that think opensource ware is simply a toy, 
> while sometimes the model promotes very good code and very extensive 
> features sets. My and PG have some pretty impressive HA models to work with.
>
> My $0.02 Canadian worth of opinion:)
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Matthew W. Ross]

The Itanium wasn't good for much. I guess the Itanium II was an improvement.

The windows XP that I saw was not a released version, and I don't know if there 
ever was a released one. And no, there wasn't much you could do with it.

--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District

On Jul 15, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Ben Scott  wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Matthew W. Ross
>  wrote:
>> In fear of taking this topic waaay of course...
> 
>  I'm not really sure it had much of a proper topic to begin with. :)
> 
>> There was a version of Windows XP for Itanium.
> 
>  No kidding.  I didn't know that.  What was it good for?  There's no
> x86 compatibility on the Itanium, right?  So almost no software.  I
> guess maybe you could open *really big* files in Notepad... ;-)
> 
>> Ever see 127 USB devices plugged into the same root USB port?
> 
>  Hah!
> 
>   Hmmm, a few of these would come in handy:
> 
> http://thepirata.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/49_port_usb_hub_01-499x333.jpg
> 
> -- Ben
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

I remember that craze.

VBA was gonna make the accountants in to apps developers as well.

-sc

-Original Message-
From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:01 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

Ben Scott said:
>>   "Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft."

Actually, not true.

When I was younger, that statement was "Nobody ever got fired for buying
IBM." I know of more than one project that failed trying to move ERP
systems from IBM mainframes to Windows Servers (in the NT 3.51/early-4.0
timeframe) using PowerBuilder and a rather obscure language from
Burroughs Corp. called LINC. 

Lots of people got fired for buying Microsoft. :-P

[[Obligatory old-timer remark: back in the 80's, PowerBuilder and LINC
were called "fourth generation languages" - all of those eventually
flopped. The assumption with 4GL's was that business people were smart
enough to actually develop the logic for the applications they used.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.]]

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

Skip Oracle and go directly to SQL Server!

 

-sc

 

From: Don Ely [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

 

Agreed on all fronts.  I had to teach myself a lot about SQL last year
and spent a lot of time cursing all the different versions of SQL
because one command in MSSQL was not the same command in any other
version of SQL...  Oddly enough though, my ability to learn SQL in a
very short time frame caught the eyes of the CIO and she's asked me to
lead us in our ERP conversion from DB2 to Oracle...  I'm actually
looking forward to it!!!

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Michael B. Smith
 wrote:

Scalability.

Performance.

LOB app requirements.

Specific feature requirements.

Operating systems.

Etc.

I wrote an application for a customer that had to support three database
platforms (Access [arguably not a real database, but still...], MySQL,
and MS-SQL). It was a nightmare getting it all right. Differences in the
way true and false were handled, null vs. not null, which attribute
types CAN be null'ed and which can't, quoting requirements, sanitation
of user input, creating keys and indices, differences in the ways JOINs
and correlated subqueries work, . It likely would've killed my
brain to add DB2 and Oracle, although I understand an in-house guy went
on and did that based on my original implementation.

SQL is not "just SQL". Once you get past "SELECT * FROM TABLE", the
variations begin...

Just like anything else - you learn a platform, get comfortable with it,
and stick with it.

IMO, MS-SQL, Oracle, and DB2 are the "enterprise DB platforms" providing
full support for clustering, mirroring, geographic dispersion, business
intelligence, business analytics, reporting, etc. MySQL and PostgresSQL
aren't bad - but they aren't (again, IMO) full blown business analytic
platforms.


Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com <http://theessentialexchange.com/> 


-Original Message-

From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:10 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

Oracle...  ... No thank you.

But enlighten me: What are the advantages of various SQLs? Why doesn't
the world kick MS SQL in the head and use free alternatives such as
MySQL, Postgres and the like? Are there inherent
advantages/disadvantages to SQL platforms? I would be interested in
being less ignorant on the subject.

Complaining? Was I complaining? No, just wondering out loud.
(sort-to-speak er... email. Whatever.)



--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -

From: don@gmail.com
To: NT System Admin
Issues [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010

13:04:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Whining...


> Go look at what Oracle costs and then you can complain...  ;) Sent
> from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Matthew W. Ross" 
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:01:43
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Reply-To: "NT System Admin Issues"
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
>  and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative
> SQL solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)
>
> But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real
> differences between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a
database is a database.
> Data goes in, and you pull data out.
>
>
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Cameron Cooper
> [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
> 12:46:01 -0700
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
>
> > Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers
> > (hardware
> and
> > software)
> >
> > - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> > - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor
> > (we
> need
> > unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers =
> > boss
> and
> > ceo that pucker
> >
> > I just work here.
> >
> >_
> > Cameron Cooper
> > Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified  Aurico Reports, Inc
> > Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896  ccoo...@aurico.com |
> >www.aurico.com <http://www.aurico.com/> 
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: RE: Whining...
> >
> > Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail?
>

RE: Whining...

[Steven M. Caesare]

Scalability is one significant factor.

-sc

-Original Message-
From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:02 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

... and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL 
solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)

But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real differences 
between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a database. Data 
goes in, and you pull data out.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Cameron Cooper
[mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
12:46:01 -0700
Subject: RE: Whining...


> Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers 
> (hardware and
> software)
> 
> - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor 
> (we need unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new 
> servers = boss and ceo that pucker
> 
> I just work here.
> 
> _
> Cameron Cooper
> Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc
> Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com | 
> www.aurico.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail? 
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
> 
> c   – 312.731.3132
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: OT: Whining...
> 
> We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license 
> version of SQL Server 2008.
> 
> I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to 
> Provantage yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available 
> anymore.
> 
> They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the 
> moment, nor an EA, so we're buying box retail.
> 
> We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
> 
> They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony 
> up for the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Just venting.
> 
> Don't mind me...
> 
> Kurt
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> Actually, a simple recompile for itanium (using Visual Studio)
> was all 64-bit clean code required.

  Yah, they said the same about 64-bit Linux on the Alpha, back in
1995.  Turns out most code isn't 64-bit clean.  :-(

  "If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs,
then the first woodpecker that came along would have destroyed
civilization." (Unknown)

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Whining...

[Michael B. Smith]

Actually, a simple recompile for itanium (using Visual Studio) was all 64-bit 
clean code required.

Can't speak to other build environments...

But most software publishers didn't choose to offer that.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:12 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Matthew W. Ross  
wrote:
> In fear of taking this topic waaay of course...

  I'm not really sure it had much of a proper topic to begin with. :)

> There was a version of Windows XP for Itanium.

  No kidding.  I didn't know that.  What was it good for?  There's no
x86 compatibility on the Itanium, right?  So almost no software.  I guess maybe 
you could open *really big* files in Notepad... ;-)

> Ever see 127 USB devices plugged into the same root USB port?

  Hah!

   Hmmm, a few of these would come in handy:

http://thepirata.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/49_port_usb_hub_01-499x333.jpg

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Matthew W. Ross
 wrote:
> In fear of taking this topic waaay of course...

  I'm not really sure it had much of a proper topic to begin with. :)

> There was a version of Windows XP for Itanium.

  No kidding.  I didn't know that.  What was it good for?  There's no
x86 compatibility on the Itanium, right?  So almost no software.  I
guess maybe you could open *really big* files in Notepad... ;-)

> Ever see 127 USB devices plugged into the same root USB port?

  Hah!

   Hmmm, a few of these would come in handy:

http://thepirata.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/49_port_usb_hub_01-499x333.jpg

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Whining...

[Matthew W. Ross]

In fear of taking this topic waaay of course...

I used to contract for Intel, doing Bios Validation (for Linux) on Itanium "Big 
Sur" platforms. (Notice, not Itanium 2.)

There was a version of Windows XP for Itanium. They lady doing the WHQL testing 
on it had a lot of fun doing it. (Ever see 127 USB devices plugged into the 
same root USB port?) It ran well, but not any better than a _much_ cheaper 
Pentium III of the time.

So, yes. Itanium running Windows does work. Didn't Microsoft just announce that 
they won't be making any more versions of Windows for IA64?


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Ben Scott
[mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
16:26:22 -0700
Subject: Re: Whining...


> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Michael B. Smith 
> wrote:
> > I believe (and it maps to my experience as well) that Brian uses "rogue"
> as
> > meaning "outside of established corporate standards".
> 
>   Since the dawn of the computer age, there have been corporate
> standards, and there have been people finding ways around them in the
> interests of actually getting work done.  If you waved a magic wand
> and made all that "rogue" stuff instantly disappear, you'd create
> havoc just about everywhere.
> 
>   Again, you need all the pieces, both big and small.  I'm sure you'd
> never find a megacorp running their ERP system on PostgreSQL (not yet,
> anyway).  But for want of a nail...
> 
> > Arguably, MS-SQL reached performance respectability with SQL 2000 ...
> 
>   Wasn't SQL 2000 still stuck on the 32-bit i386 architecture?
>   Oh, right, I forgot about IA-64.  (Just like the
> rest of the industry.  ;-) )  I admit I've never even seen an IA-64
> box in person.  How well does Microsoft's do on IA-64?  Is it like
> x86-64, where it was a red-headed stepchild for the first few releases
> (i.e., yes, you could run it, but there was a ton of stuff that didn't
> work right)?
> 
>   BTW, in response to another subthread: According to Wikipedia,
> Microsoft rewrote most of the Sybase code for SQL 2000 (7.0).
> 
> -- Ben
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Michael B. Smith]

In SQL 2000 and SQL 2005, Microsoft won more than one performance benchmark on 
IA-64. I deployed a few, and it was a Windows implementation that included lots 
of innovations that made it back into the standard Windows releases (think GPT 
disk and very large memory support).

Granted, at this point, x64 has surpassed IA-64 in performance. I don't even 
know if SQL 2008 R2 was released on IA-64 (I don't think so, but didn't go to 
check).

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 7:26 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> I believe (and it maps to my experience as well) that Brian uses 
> "rogue" as meaning "outside of established corporate standards".

  Since the dawn of the computer age, there have been corporate standards, and 
there have been people finding ways around them in the interests of actually 
getting work done.  If you waved a magic wand and made all that "rogue" stuff 
instantly disappear, you'd create havoc just about everywhere.

  Again, you need all the pieces, both big and small.  I'm sure you'd never 
find a megacorp running their ERP system on PostgreSQL (not yet, anyway).  But 
for want of a nail...

> Arguably, MS-SQL reached performance respectability with SQL 2000 ...

  Wasn't SQL 2000 still stuck on the 32-bit i386 architecture?
  Oh, right, I forgot about IA-64.  (Just like the rest of 
the industry.  ;-) )  I admit I've never even seen an IA-64 box in person.  How 
well does Microsoft's do on IA-64?  Is it like x86-64, where it was a 
red-headed stepchild for the first few releases (i.e., yes, you could run it, 
but there was a ton of stuff that didn't work right)?

  BTW, in response to another subthread: According to Wikipedia, Microsoft 
rewrote most of the Sybase code for SQL 2000 (7.0).

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> I believe (and it maps to my experience as well) that Brian uses "rogue" as
> meaning "outside of established corporate standards".

  Since the dawn of the computer age, there have been corporate
standards, and there have been people finding ways around them in the
interests of actually getting work done.  If you waved a magic wand
and made all that "rogue" stuff instantly disappear, you'd create
havoc just about everywhere.

  Again, you need all the pieces, both big and small.  I'm sure you'd
never find a megacorp running their ERP system on PostgreSQL (not yet,
anyway).  But for want of a nail...

> Arguably, MS-SQL reached performance respectability with SQL 2000 ...

  Wasn't SQL 2000 still stuck on the 32-bit i386 architecture?
  Oh, right, I forgot about IA-64.  (Just like the
rest of the industry.  ;-) )  I admit I've never even seen an IA-64
box in person.  How well does Microsoft's do on IA-64?  Is it like
x86-64, where it was a red-headed stepchild for the first few releases
(i.e., yes, you could run it, but there was a ton of stuff that didn't
work right)?

  BTW, in response to another subthread: According to Wikipedia,
Microsoft rewrote most of the Sybase code for SQL 2000 (7.0).

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Whining...

[Brian Desmond]

As Michael noted, I was referring to unsanctioned/not centrally managed 
instances of a given  as "rogue". Depending on the maturity of the 
shop, pulling that stunt at some places that can be a career limiting move. 

Places that seriously standardize on something like MSSQL/Oracle/etc. will be 
hardcore about it. You come in pitching a solution that only runs on SQL and 
it's an Oracle shop, you'll be shown the door. 

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c   - 312.731.3132


-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Brian Desmond  wrote:
> Honestly, having worked in hundreds of large scale orgs, the three 
> Michael listed are the three you're going to find operating in 
> datacenters outside of rogue instances and the occasional in-the-box app 
> specific DB.

  In a large organization, I would expect to find heavy deployment of at least 
one big commercial platform as the centerpiece, but lots of other stuff on the 
edge in supporting roles.  You dismiss them as "rogue", I take it, but I don't 
see why.  Take away the small pieces and the big pieces usually grind to a 
halt.  Take away the big pieces and the small pieces are pointless.  You need 
all the pieces for a machine to work.

   In my experience, big organizations never have homogeneous systems.

  It wasn't all *that* long ago the MS-SQL was excluded from the "real 
database" category by some because it was stuck on 32-bit pee sea boxes and 
simply couldn't scale up to the likes of big Sun/IBM/HP/DEC/etc. systems.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Steven Peck]

The enterprise tools that most support vendors have work with MS SQL
or Oracle.  backup, monitoring, etc.  Some do the others but not all
nor convieniently.  Also, having fewer products to support internally
means more expertise can be developed.

I am seeing more apps that use PostGRE or MySQL as a back-end products
but one of the big issues is the documentation and expertise to run
those systems at the same scale of MS SQL just isn't out in the wide
spread community yet.  The tools are still catching up.

Can they do the larger things, for the most part yes.  Is 'most part'
probably good enough for more then most use?  Sure.  Remember, IT is
slow and set in their ways and for good reason, we all hate getting up
at 2am to that darn phone call.

It doesn't help that Sun bought MySQL AB and Oracle bought Sun so
there is confusion in that area now as well.  PostGRE for all of it's
advocates just doesn't seem to have as wide spread adoption as MySQL
despite it's reputation.

And 'outside of IT norms, is rogue.  Of course, we all find to many
damn 'enterprise Access databases and I would really rather find a
'rogue' MySQL db then that.

Steevn

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> I believe (and it maps to my experience as well) that Brian uses "rogue" as 
> meaning "outside of established corporate standards".
>
> Arguably, MS-SQL reached performance respectability with SQL 2000 and feature 
> respectability with SQL 2005. So... I agree with your statement.
>
> However, the "MS-SQL runtime" that MSFT provided "for free", followed by MSDE 
> "for free" and the Access-to-SQL upgrade wizard "for free" did LOTS of help 
> to give MS-SQL the boost it needed...
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael B. Smith
> Consultant and Exchange MVP
> http://TheEssentialExchange.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:57 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Brian Desmond  wrote:
>> Honestly, having worked in hundreds of large scale orgs, the three
>> Michael listed are the three you're going to find operating in
>> datacenters outside of rogue instances and the occasional in-the-box app 
>> specific DB.
>
>  In a large organization, I would expect to find heavy deployment of at least 
> one big commercial platform as the centerpiece, but lots of other stuff on 
> the edge in supporting roles.  You dismiss them as "rogue", I take it, but I 
> don't see why.  Take away the small pieces and the big pieces usually grind 
> to a halt.  Take away the big pieces and the small pieces are pointless.  You 
> need all the pieces for a machine to work.
>
>   In my experience, big organizations never have homogeneous systems.
>
>  It wasn't all *that* long ago the MS-SQL was excluded from the "real 
> database" category by some because it was stuck on 32-bit pee sea boxes and 
> simply couldn't scale up to the likes of big Sun/IBM/HP/DEC/etc. systems.
>
> -- Ben
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Brian Desmond]

Yes exactly

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c   - 312.731.3132


-Original Message-
From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:04 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

I believe (and it maps to my experience as well) that Brian uses "rogue" as 
meaning "outside of established corporate standards".

Arguably, MS-SQL reached performance respectability with SQL 2000 and feature 
respectability with SQL 2005. So... I agree with your statement.

However, the "MS-SQL runtime" that MSFT provided "for free", followed by MSDE 
"for free" and the Access-to-SQL upgrade wizard "for free" did LOTS of help to 
give MS-SQL the boost it needed...

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Brian Desmond  wrote:
> Honestly, having worked in hundreds of large scale orgs, the three 
> Michael listed are the three you're going to find operating in 
> datacenters outside of rogue instances and the occasional in-the-box app 
> specific DB.

  In a large organization, I would expect to find heavy deployment of at least 
one big commercial platform as the centerpiece, but lots of other stuff on the 
edge in supporting roles.  You dismiss them as "rogue", I take it, but I don't 
see why.  Take away the small pieces and the big pieces usually grind to a 
halt.  Take away the big pieces and the small pieces are pointless.  You need 
all the pieces for a machine to work.

   In my experience, big organizations never have homogeneous systems.

  It wasn't all *that* long ago the MS-SQL was excluded from the "real 
database" category by some because it was stuck on 32-bit pee sea boxes and 
simply couldn't scale up to the likes of big Sun/IBM/HP/DEC/etc. systems.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Michael B. Smith]

I believe (and it maps to my experience as well) that Brian uses "rogue" as 
meaning "outside of established corporate standards".

Arguably, MS-SQL reached performance respectability with SQL 2000 and feature 
respectability with SQL 2005. So... I agree with your statement.

However, the "MS-SQL runtime" that MSFT provided "for free", followed by MSDE 
"for free" and the Access-to-SQL upgrade wizard "for free" did LOTS of help to 
give MS-SQL the boost it needed...

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Brian Desmond  wrote:
> Honestly, having worked in hundreds of large scale orgs, the three 
> Michael listed are the three you're going to find operating in 
> datacenters outside of rogue instances and the occasional in-the-box app 
> specific DB.

  In a large organization, I would expect to find heavy deployment of at least 
one big commercial platform as the centerpiece, but lots of other stuff on the 
edge in supporting roles.  You dismiss them as "rogue", I take it, but I don't 
see why.  Take away the small pieces and the big pieces usually grind to a 
halt.  Take away the big pieces and the small pieces are pointless.  You need 
all the pieces for a machine to work.

   In my experience, big organizations never have homogeneous systems.

  It wasn't all *that* long ago the MS-SQL was excluded from the "real 
database" category by some because it was stuck on 32-bit pee sea boxes and 
simply couldn't scale up to the likes of big Sun/IBM/HP/DEC/etc. systems.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Brian Desmond  wrote:
> Honestly, having worked in hundreds of large scale orgs, the three
> Michael listed are the three you're going to find operating in datacenters
> outside of rogue instances and the occasional in-the-box app specific DB.

  In a large organization, I would expect to find heavy deployment of
at least one big commercial platform as the centerpiece, but lots of
other stuff on the edge in supporting roles.  You dismiss them as
"rogue", I take it, but I don't see why.  Take away the small pieces
and the big pieces usually grind to a halt.  Take away the big pieces
and the small pieces are pointless.  You need all the pieces for a
machine to work.

   In my experience, big organizations never have homogeneous systems.

  It wasn't all *that* long ago the MS-SQL was excluded from the "real
database" category by some because it was stuck on 32-bit pee sea
boxes and simply couldn't scale up to the likes of big
Sun/IBM/HP/DEC/etc. systems.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Whining...

[Michael B. Smith]

I said "core codebase" - which is true.

I can't speak as to how many lines of code are still the same. I simply don't 
know.

But yes, they did "start" at the same place

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:43 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

Does Sybase really still share the same core code as MS-SQL? It's been a *long* 
time since they split.

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 15:25, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> Heh.
>
> Not a fan-boi at all. Neither MySQL or PostgreSQL has the rich set of 
> capabilities present in the MS-SQL, DB2, or Oracle _platforms_. Note that for 
> those three, it isn't just a database engine, it's an entire suite of 
> capabilities, programs, and systems.
>
> I'm not saying that they aren't fine products. I've used both fairly 
> extensively in various projects over the last dozen years. I've even 
> implemented MySQL solutions with striped databases and HA to enhance 
> performance and scalability for that solution.

>
> But to say that either of those has the rich infrastructure support and 
> analytic and BI capabilities of DB2, Oracle, or MS-SQL? That's simply not 
> true.
>
> Also, to look at performance and scalability, look at www.tpc.org. For 
> databases at 1 TB or larger, you do not find either MySQL or PostgreSQL 
> listed. You have the three I mentioned, plus Sybase (which shares the same 
> core codebase as MS-SQL) plus a special purpose database for OLTP.
>
> Regardless, we are all allowed to have our opinions. :-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael B. Smith
> Consultant and Exchange MVP
> http://TheEssentialExchange.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph L. Casale [mailto:jcas...@activenetwerx.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:56 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
>>Scalability.
>>
>>Performance.
>
> Well, I'd say there are a lot of nix based apps that require this and 
> get it out of my or pg:)
>
>>Operating systems.
>
> Yes, if your an MS shop without any nix experience, you have no choice...
> Do what you know...
>
>>I wrote an application for a customer that had to support three database 
>>platforms (Access [arguably not a real database, but still...], MySQL, and 
>>MS-SQL). It was a nightmare >getting it all right.
>
> Right, but that doesn’t address the inquiry as to why it wasn’t 
> written for *one* to start:) If you write it for MS, it’s the same amount of 
> work if you start out and write it for My or pg.
>
>>IMO, MS-SQL, Oracle, and DB2 are the "enterprise DB platforms" providing full 
>>support for clustering, mirroring, geographic dispersion, business 
>>intelligence, business >analytics, reporting, etc. MySQL and PostgresSQL 
>>aren't bad - but they aren't (again, IMO) full blown business analytic 
>>platforms.
>
> C'mon Michael, seriously? That’s a bit fan-boyish?:) With the utmost 
> GREATEST respect to you, I humbly disagree...
>
> There are some people that think opensource ware is simply a toy, 
> while sometimes the model promotes very good code and very extensive 
> features sets. My and PG have some pretty impressive HA models to work with.
>
> My $0.02 Canadian worth of opinion:)
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> Ben Scott said:
>>>   "Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft."
>
> Actually, not true.

  Oh, I didn't mean to imply it was true.  Just some people think that!  :-)

  And in a way, it is true.  People aren't fired for buying Microsoft.
 They are, however, fired for not getting the job done.  And sometimes
they're laid off because the competition got the job done
quicker/cheaper/better.  Any product choice can contribute to either
of those situations -- IBM, Microsoft, Oracle, or an Open Source
thing.

> "fourth generation languages" - all of those eventually flopped.

  I remember those things.  As you say, the big mistake is assuming
that business people understand logic.

  Of course, a common mistake with other languages is assuming that
all "programmers" know how to program...  ;-)

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Whining...

[Kurt Buff]

Does Sybase really still share the same core code as MS-SQL? It's been
a *long* time since they split.

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 15:25, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> Heh.
>
> Not a fan-boi at all. Neither MySQL or PostgreSQL has the rich set of 
> capabilities present in the MS-SQL, DB2, or Oracle _platforms_. Note that for 
> those three, it isn't just a database engine, it's an entire suite of 
> capabilities, programs, and systems.
>
> I'm not saying that they aren't fine products. I've used both fairly 
> extensively in various projects over the last dozen years. I've even 
> implemented MySQL solutions with striped databases and HA to enhance 
> performance and scalability for that solution.
>
> But to say that either of those has the rich infrastructure support and 
> analytic and BI capabilities of DB2, Oracle, or MS-SQL? That's simply not 
> true.
>
> Also, to look at performance and scalability, look at www.tpc.org. For 
> databases at 1 TB or larger, you do not find either MySQL or PostgreSQL 
> listed. You have the three I mentioned, plus Sybase (which shares the same 
> core codebase as MS-SQL) plus a special purpose database for OLTP.
>
> Regardless, we are all allowed to have our opinions. :-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael B. Smith
> Consultant and Exchange MVP
> http://TheEssentialExchange.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph L. Casale [mailto:jcas...@activenetwerx.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:56 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
>>Scalability.
>>
>>Performance.
>
> Well, I'd say there are a lot of nix based apps that require this and get it
> out of my or pg:)
>
>>Operating systems.
>
> Yes, if your an MS shop without any nix experience, you have no choice...
> Do what you know...
>
>>I wrote an application for a customer that had to support three database 
>>platforms (Access [arguably not a real database, but still...], MySQL, and 
>>MS-SQL). It was a nightmare >getting it all right.
>
> Right, but that doesn’t address the inquiry as to why it wasn’t written for 
> *one* to start:)
> If you write it for MS, it’s the same amount of work if you start out and 
> write it for My or pg.
>
>>IMO, MS-SQL, Oracle, and DB2 are the "enterprise DB platforms" providing full 
>>support for clustering, mirroring, geographic dispersion, business 
>>intelligence, business >analytics, reporting, etc. MySQL and PostgresSQL 
>>aren't bad - but they aren't (again, IMO) full blown business analytic 
>>platforms.
>
> C'mon Michael, seriously? That’s a bit fan-boyish?:)
> With the utmost GREATEST respect to you, I humbly disagree...
>
> There are some people that think opensource ware is simply a toy, while 
> sometimes the model
> promotes very good code and very extensive features sets. My and PG have some 
> pretty impressive
> HA models to work with.
>
> My $0.02 Canadian worth of opinion:)
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Don Ely]

+100

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Brian Desmond wrote:

> Honestly, having worked in hundreds of large scale orgs, the three Michael
> listed are the three you're going to find operating in datacenters outside
> of rogue instances and the occasional in-the-box app specific DB.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
>
> c   – 312.731.3132
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph L. Casale [mailto:jcas...@activenetwerx.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:56 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
>  >Scalability.
> >
> >Performance.
>
> Well, I'd say there are a lot of nix based apps that require this and get
> it out of my or pg:)
>
> >Operating systems.
>
> Yes, if your an MS shop without any nix experience, you have no choice...
> Do what you know...
>
> >I wrote an application for a customer that had to support three database
> platforms (Access [arguably not a real database, but still...], MySQL, and
> MS-SQL). It was a nightmare >getting it all right.
>
> Right, but that doesn’t address the inquiry as to why it wasn’t written for
> *one* to start:) If you write it for MS, it’s the same amount of work if you
> start out and write it for My or pg.
>
> >IMO, MS-SQL, Oracle, and DB2 are the "enterprise DB platforms" providing
> full support for clustering, mirroring, geographic dispersion, business
> intelligence, business >analytics, reporting, etc. MySQL and PostgresSQL
> aren't bad - but they aren't (again, IMO) full blown business analytic
> platforms.
>
> C'mon Michael, seriously? That’s a bit fan-boyish?:) With the utmost
> GREATEST respect to you, I humbly disagree...
>
> There are some people that think opensource ware is simply a toy, while
> sometimes the model promotes very good code and very extensive features
> sets. My and PG have some pretty impressive HA models to work with.
>
> My $0.02 Canadian worth of opinion:)
>
>  ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <
> http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Michael B. Smith]

Heh.

Not a fan-boi at all. Neither MySQL or PostgreSQL has the rich set of 
capabilities present in the MS-SQL, DB2, or Oracle _platforms_. Note that for 
those three, it isn't just a database engine, it's an entire suite of 
capabilities, programs, and systems.

I'm not saying that they aren't fine products. I've used both fairly 
extensively in various projects over the last dozen years. I've even 
implemented MySQL solutions with striped databases and HA to enhance 
performance and scalability for that solution.

But to say that either of those has the rich infrastructure support and 
analytic and BI capabilities of DB2, Oracle, or MS-SQL? That's simply not true.

Also, to look at performance and scalability, look at www.tpc.org. For 
databases at 1 TB or larger, you do not find either MySQL or PostgreSQL listed. 
You have the three I mentioned, plus Sybase (which shares the same core 
codebase as MS-SQL) plus a special purpose database for OLTP.

Regardless, we are all allowed to have our opinions. :-)

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Joseph L. Casale [mailto:jcas...@activenetwerx.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

>Scalability.
>
>Performance.

Well, I'd say there are a lot of nix based apps that require this and get it
out of my or pg:)

>Operating systems.

Yes, if your an MS shop without any nix experience, you have no choice...
Do what you know...

>I wrote an application for a customer that had to support three database 
>platforms (Access [arguably not a real database, but still...], MySQL, and 
>MS-SQL). It was a nightmare >getting it all right.

Right, but that doesn’t address the inquiry as to why it wasn’t written for 
*one* to start:)
If you write it for MS, it’s the same amount of work if you start out and write 
it for My or pg.

>IMO, MS-SQL, Oracle, and DB2 are the "enterprise DB platforms" providing full 
>support for clustering, mirroring, geographic dispersion, business 
>intelligence, business >analytics, reporting, etc. MySQL and PostgresSQL 
>aren't bad - but they aren't (again, IMO) full blown business analytic 
>platforms.

C'mon Michael, seriously? That’s a bit fan-boyish?:) 
With the utmost GREATEST respect to you, I humbly disagree...

There are some people that think opensource ware is simply a toy, while 
sometimes the model
promotes very good code and very extensive features sets. My and PG have some 
pretty impressive
HA models to work with.

My $0.02 Canadian worth of opinion:)

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Brian Desmond]

Honestly, having worked in hundreds of large scale orgs, the three Michael 
listed are the three you're going to find operating in datacenters outside of 
rogue instances and the occasional in-the-box app specific DB. 

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c   – 312.731.3132


-Original Message-
From: Joseph L. Casale [mailto:jcas...@activenetwerx.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

>Scalability.
>
>Performance.

Well, I'd say there are a lot of nix based apps that require this and get it 
out of my or pg:)

>Operating systems.

Yes, if your an MS shop without any nix experience, you have no choice...
Do what you know...

>I wrote an application for a customer that had to support three database 
>platforms (Access [arguably not a real database, but still...], MySQL, and 
>MS-SQL). It was a nightmare >getting it all right.

Right, but that doesn’t address the inquiry as to why it wasn’t written for 
*one* to start:) If you write it for MS, it’s the same amount of work if you 
start out and write it for My or pg.

>IMO, MS-SQL, Oracle, and DB2 are the "enterprise DB platforms" providing full 
>support for clustering, mirroring, geographic dispersion, business 
>intelligence, business >analytics, reporting, etc. MySQL and PostgresSQL 
>aren't bad - but they aren't (again, IMO) full blown business analytic 
>platforms.

C'mon Michael, seriously? That’s a bit fan-boyish?:) With the utmost GREATEST 
respect to you, I humbly disagree...

There are some people that think opensource ware is simply a toy, while 
sometimes the model promotes very good code and very extensive features sets. 
My and PG have some pretty impressive HA models to work with.

My $0.02 Canadian worth of opinion:)

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Michael B. Smith]

Ben Scott said:
>>   "Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft."

Actually, not true.

When I was younger, that statement was "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." 
I know of more than one project that failed trying to move ERP systems from IBM 
mainframes to Windows Servers (in the NT 3.51/early-4.0 timeframe) using 
PowerBuilder and a rather obscure language from Burroughs Corp. called LINC. 

Lots of people got fired for buying Microsoft. :-P

[[Obligatory old-timer remark: back in the 80's, PowerBuilder and LINC were 
called "fourth generation languages" - all of those eventually flopped. The 
assumption with 4GL's was that business people were smart enough to actually 
develop the logic for the applications they used. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.]]

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Michael B. Smith  wrote:
> I wrote an application for a customer that had to support
> three database platforms (Access [arguably not a real database, but still...],
> MySQL, and MS-SQL).

  MySQL isn't really a "real" database platform (in the sense you
mean), either.  The design is heavily optimized for reads and
deliberately excludes many of the usual RDBMS features.  If I was
looking to support MS-SQL plus "something Open Source", I would expect
PostgreSQL to be a better fit.

  But, of course, you gotta do what the customer wants...

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

RE: Whining...

[Joseph L. Casale]

>Scalability.
>
>Performance.

Well, I'd say there are a lot of nix based apps that require this and get it
out of my or pg:)

>Operating systems.

Yes, if your an MS shop without any nix experience, you have no choice...
Do what you know...

>I wrote an application for a customer that had to support three database 
>platforms (Access [arguably not a real database, but still...], MySQL, and 
>MS-SQL). It was a nightmare >getting it all right.

Right, but that doesn’t address the inquiry as to why it wasn’t written for 
*one* to start:)
If you write it for MS, it’s the same amount of work if you start out and write 
it for My or pg.

>IMO, MS-SQL, Oracle, and DB2 are the "enterprise DB platforms" providing full 
>support for clustering, mirroring, geographic dispersion, business 
>intelligence, business >analytics, reporting, etc. MySQL and PostgresSQL 
>aren't bad - but they aren't (again, IMO) full blown business analytic 
>platforms.

C'mon Michael, seriously? That’s a bit fan-boyish?:) 
With the utmost GREATEST respect to you, I humbly disagree...

There are some people that think opensource ware is simply a toy, while 
sometimes the model
promotes very good code and very extensive features sets. My and PG have some 
pretty impressive
HA models to work with.

My $0.02 Canadian worth of opinion:)

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Whining...

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Matthew W. Ross
 wrote:
> What are the advantages of various SQLs? Why doesn't the world kick
> MS SQL in the head and use free alternatives such as MySQL, Postgres
> and the like?

  In roughly decreasing order of importance:

  A lot of products are already using MS-SQL.  Switching products is expensive.

  A lot of people just use whatever they know.  They learned MS-SQL so
they use that.

  A lot of those sort of people are Visual Basic programmers who
barely know what they're doing in the first place.  They have a hard
enough time getting an all-Microsoft solution to work.  Going
multi-vendor is simply beyond them.

  Some people/organizations just don't like Open Source stuff, for
whatever reason.

  "Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft."

  If you're using an application that started life as an MS Access
database, it's easier to shoehorn it into MS-SQL then it is shoehorn
into a third-party database.

  MS-SQL comes with a lot of GUI tools "in the box"; those are
third-party packages with the Open Source databases.  While they're
pretty well-integrated at this point, that still makes things a bit
more complex then it would otherwise be.

> Are there inherent advantages/disadvantages to SQL platforms?

  Absolutely.

  SQL -- as a generic language specification -- only gets you so much.
 To do any "real" database work, you have to go beyond the SQL
language specification, so you're into vendor-specific extensions, and
of course none of those are portable.

> I would be interested in being less ignorant on the subject.

  MySQL is optimized for fast read performance, at the cost of much
slower write performance, and losing many of the features one would
expect in a "real" database.  This makes MySQL very good for a
"read-mostly" scenario -- such as many websites, where most users are
just browsing.

  Plus many web programmers just barely know what they're doing (sound
familiar?), so they never get into things like referential integrity
or stored procedures, so they never miss the things MySQL lacks.

  PostgreSQL and Firebird are much more feature-complete vs MySQL.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Whining...

[Don Ely]

Agreed on all fronts.  I had to teach myself a lot about SQL last year and
spent a lot of time cursing all the different versions of SQL because one
command in MSSQL was not the same command in any other version of SQL...
Oddly enough though, my ability to learn SQL in a very short time frame
caught the eyes of the CIO and she's asked me to lead us in our ERP
conversion from DB2 to Oracle...  I'm actually looking forward to it!!!

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Michael B. Smith wrote:

> Scalability.
>
> Performance.
>
> LOB app requirements.
>
> Specific feature requirements.
>
> Operating systems.
>
> Etc.
>
> I wrote an application for a customer that had to support three database
> platforms (Access [arguably not a real database, but still...], MySQL, and
> MS-SQL). It was a nightmare getting it all right. Differences in the way
> true and false were handled, null vs. not null, which attribute types CAN be
> null'ed and which can't, quoting requirements, sanitation of user input,
> creating keys and indices, differences in the ways JOINs and correlated
> subqueries work, . It likely would've killed my brain to add DB2
> and Oracle, although I understand an in-house guy went on and did that based
> on my original implementation.
>
> SQL is not "just SQL". Once you get past "SELECT * FROM TABLE", the
> variations begin...
>
> Just like anything else - you learn a platform, get comfortable with it,
> and stick with it.
>
> IMO, MS-SQL, Oracle, and DB2 are the "enterprise DB platforms" providing
> full support for clustering, mirroring, geographic dispersion, business
> intelligence, business analytics, reporting, etc. MySQL and PostgresSQL
> aren't bad - but they aren't (again, IMO) full blown business analytic
> platforms.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael B. Smith
> Consultant and Exchange MVP
> http://TheEssentialExchange.com <http://theessentialexchange.com/>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:10 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Whining...
>
> Oracle...  ... No thank you.
>
> But enlighten me: What are the advantages of various SQLs? Why doesn't the
> world kick MS SQL in the head and use free alternatives such as MySQL,
> Postgres and the like? Are there inherent advantages/disadvantages to SQL
> platforms? I would be interested in being less ignorant on the subject.
>
> Complaining? Was I complaining? No, just wondering out loud.
> (sort-to-speak er... email. Whatever.)
>
>
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: don@gmail.com
> To: NT System Admin
> Issues [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
>  13:04:03 -0700
> Subject: Re: Whining...
>
>
> > Go look at what Oracle costs and then you can complain...  ;) Sent
> > from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: "Matthew W. Ross" 
> > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:01:43
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Reply-To: "NT System Admin Issues"
> > Subject: RE: Whining...
> >
> >  and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative
> > SQL solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)
> >
> > But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real
> > differences between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database
> is a database.
> > Data goes in, and you pull data out.
> >
> >
> > --Matt Ross
> > Ephrata School District
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: Cameron Cooper
> > [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> > Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
> > 12:46:01 -0700
> > Subject: RE: Whining...
> >
> >
> > > Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers
> > > (hardware
> > and
> > > software)
> > >
> > > - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> > > - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor
> > > (we
> > need
> > > unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers =
> > > boss
> > and
> > > ceo that pucker
> > >
> > > I just work here.
> > >
> > >_
> > > Cameron Cooper
> > > Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified  Aurico Reports, Inc
> > > Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896  ccoo.

RE: Whining...

[Michael B. Smith]

Scalability.

Performance.

LOB app requirements.

Specific feature requirements.

Operating systems.

Etc.

I wrote an application for a customer that had to support three database 
platforms (Access [arguably not a real database, but still...], MySQL, and 
MS-SQL). It was a nightmare getting it all right. Differences in the way true 
and false were handled, null vs. not null, which attribute types CAN be null'ed 
and which can't, quoting requirements, sanitation of user input, creating keys 
and indices, differences in the ways JOINs and correlated subqueries work, 
. It likely would've killed my brain to add DB2 and Oracle, although I 
understand an in-house guy went on and did that based on my original 
implementation.

SQL is not "just SQL". Once you get past "SELECT * FROM TABLE", the variations 
begin...

Just like anything else - you learn a platform, get comfortable with it, and 
stick with it.

IMO, MS-SQL, Oracle, and DB2 are the "enterprise DB platforms" providing full 
support for clustering, mirroring, geographic dispersion, business 
intelligence, business analytics, reporting, etc. MySQL and PostgresSQL aren't 
bad - but they aren't (again, IMO) full blown business analytic platforms.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:10 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

Oracle...  ... No thank you.

But enlighten me: What are the advantages of various SQLs? Why doesn't the 
world kick MS SQL in the head and use free alternatives such as MySQL, Postgres 
and the like? Are there inherent advantages/disadvantages to SQL platforms? I 
would be interested in being less ignorant on the subject.

Complaining? Was I complaining? No, just wondering out loud. (sort-to-speak 
er... email. Whatever.)


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: don@gmail.com
To: NT System Admin
Issues [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
13:04:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Whining...


> Go look at what Oracle costs and then you can complain...  ;) Sent 
> from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: "Matthew W. Ross" 
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:01:43
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Reply-To: "NT System Admin Issues"
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
>  and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative 
> SQL solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)
> 
> But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real 
> differences between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a 
> database.
> Data goes in, and you pull data out.
> 
> 
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Cameron Cooper
> [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
> 12:46:01 -0700
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> 
> > Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers 
> > (hardware
> and
> > software)
> > 
> > - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> > - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor 
> > (we
> need
> > unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers = 
> > boss
> and
> > ceo that pucker
> > 
> > I just work here.
> > 
> >_
> > Cameron Cooper
> > Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified  Aurico Reports, Inc
> > Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896  ccoo...@aurico.com | 
> >www.aurico.com
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: RE: Whining...
> > 
> > Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail? 
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Brian Desmond
> > br...@briandesmond.com
> > 
> > c   – 312.731.3132
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: OT: Whining...
> > 
> > We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license 
> > version of SQL Server 2008.
> > 
> > I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to 
> > Provantage yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available 
> > anymore.
> > 
> > They're on

RE: Whining...

[Rod Trent]

It's getting better, but yes, the biggest drawbacks are availability and link 
speed.

-Original Message-
From: Michael B. Smith [mailto:mich...@smithcons.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

Azure isn't cheap. Performance isn't stellar for most SMORG IP connectivity.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Rod Trent [mailto:rodtr...@myitforum.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:15 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

Why not just host the dbs in the Cloud?  Microsoft Azure is ready for db 
consumption and is Microsoft's preferred app to migrate.  Save money on 
hardware, software, management, etc.

-Original Message-
From: don@gmail.com [mailto:don@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:04 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

Go look at what Oracle costs and then you can complain...  ;) Sent from my 
Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "Matthew W. Ross" 
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:01:43
To: NT System Admin Issues
Reply-To: "NT System Admin Issues" 
Subject: RE: Whining...

 and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL 
solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)

But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real differences 
between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a database. Data 
goes in, and you pull data out.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Cameron Cooper
[mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
12:46:01 -0700
Subject: RE: Whining...


> Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers 
> (hardware and
> software)
> 
> - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor 
> (we need unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new 
> servers = boss and ceo that pucker
> 
> I just work here.
> 
>_
> Cameron Cooper
> Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified  Aurico Reports, Inc
> Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896  ccoo...@aurico.com | 
>www.aurico.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail? 
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
> 
> c   – 312.731.3132
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: OT: Whining...
> 
> We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license 
> version of SQL Server 2008.
> 
> I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to 
> Provantage yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available 
> anymore.
> 
> They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the 
> moment, nor an EA, so we're buying box retail.
> 
> We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
> 
> They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony 
> up for the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Just venting.
> 
> Don't mind me...
> 
> Kurt
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~




~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~




~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Michael B. Smith]

Azure isn't cheap. Performance isn't stellar for most SMORG IP connectivity.

Regards,

Michael B. Smith
Consultant and Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com


-Original Message-
From: Rod Trent [mailto:rodtr...@myitforum.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:15 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

Why not just host the dbs in the Cloud?  Microsoft Azure is ready for db 
consumption and is Microsoft's preferred app to migrate.  Save money on 
hardware, software, management, etc.

-Original Message-
From: don@gmail.com [mailto:don@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:04 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

Go look at what Oracle costs and then you can complain...  ;) Sent from my 
Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "Matthew W. Ross" 
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:01:43
To: NT System Admin Issues
Reply-To: "NT System Admin Issues" 
Subject: RE: Whining...

 and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL 
solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)

But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real differences 
between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a database. Data 
goes in, and you pull data out.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Cameron Cooper
[mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
12:46:01 -0700
Subject: RE: Whining...


> Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers 
> (hardware and
> software)
> 
> - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor 
> (we need unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new 
> servers = boss and ceo that pucker
> 
> I just work here.
> 
>_
> Cameron Cooper
> Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified  Aurico Reports, Inc
> Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896  ccoo...@aurico.com | 
>www.aurico.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail? 
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
> 
> c   – 312.731.3132
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: OT: Whining...
> 
> We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license 
> version of SQL Server 2008.
> 
> I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to 
> Provantage yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available 
> anymore.
> 
> They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the 
> moment, nor an EA, so we're buying box retail.
> 
> We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
> 
> They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony 
> up for the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Just venting.
> 
> Don't mind me...
> 
> Kurt
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~




~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Kurt Buff]

If I had my druthers, it would be Postrgresql, but unfortunately this
is for a Windows app that requires a SQL 2k8 backend, for our
engineers.

Kurt

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 13:01, Matthew W. Ross  wrote:
> ... and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL 
> solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)
>
> But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real differences 
> between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a database. 
> Data goes in, and you pull data out.
>
>
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Cameron Cooper
> [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
> 12:46:01 -0700
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
>
>> Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers (hardware and
>> software)
>>
>> - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
>> - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor (we need
>> unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers = boss and
>> ceo that pucker
>>
>> I just work here.
>>
>> _
>> Cameron Cooper
>> Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified
>> Aurico Reports, Inc
>> Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896
>> ccoo...@aurico.com | www.aurico.com
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
>> To: NT System Admin Issues
>> Subject: RE: Whining...
>>
>> Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brian Desmond
>> br...@briandesmond.com
>>
>> c   – 312.731.3132
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
>> To: NT System Admin Issues
>> Subject: OT: Whining...
>>
>> We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license version
>> of SQL Server 2008.
>>
>> I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to Provantage
>> yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available anymore.
>>
>> They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
>>
>> Ouch.
>>
>> Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the moment, nor
>> an EA, so we're buying box retail.
>>
>> We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
>>
>> They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony up for
>> the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
>>
>> Sigh.
>>
>> Just venting.
>>
>> Don't mind me...
>>
>> Kurt
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
>> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>>
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Kurt Buff]

Absolutely. I'm gathering data to try to convince management to get us
to an EA - I just need the world to slow down enough so that I can
catch my breath and get it done. I think the case will make itself.


Kurt

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 12:32, Brian Desmond  wrote:
> Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail?
>
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
>
> c   – 312.731.3132
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: OT: Whining...
>
> We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license version of 
> SQL Server 2008.
>
> I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to Provantage 
> yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available anymore.
>
> They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
>
> Ouch.
>
> Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the moment, nor 
> an EA, so we're buying box retail.
>
> We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
>
> They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony up for 
> the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
>
> Sigh.
>
> Just venting.
>
> Don't mind me...
>
> Kurt
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
>   ~
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

Re: Whining...

[Andrew S. Baker]

Here are some articles, quite a few of them old, which outline a few
differences between the platforms:

   - http://www.mssqlcity.com/Articles/Compare/sql_server_vs_mysql.htm
   -
   
http://www.postgresonline.com/journal/index.php?/archives/51-Cross-Compare-of-SQL-Server,-MySQL,-and-PostgreSQL.html
   - http://www.isql.org/2007/02/mysql-vs-sybase-ms-sql-server.html
   -
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_relational_database_management_systems


<http://www.mssqlcity.com/Articles/Compare/sql_server_vs_mysql.htm>It all
depends on what you are trying to accomplish...

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker
 Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...


On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Matthew W. Ross
wrote:

> Oracle...  ... No thank you.
>
> But enlighten me: What are the advantages of various SQLs? Why doesn't the
> world kick MS SQL in the head and use free alternatives such as MySQL,
> Postgres and the like? Are there inherent advantages/disadvantages to SQL
> platforms? I would be interested in being less ignorant on the subject.
>
> Complaining? Was I complaining? No, just wondering out loud.
> (sort-to-speak er... email. Whatever.)
>
>
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: don@gmail.com
> To: NT System Admin
> Issues [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
> 13:04:03 -0700
> Subject: Re: Whining...
>
>
> > Go look at what Oracle costs and then you can complain...  ;)
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: "Matthew W. Ross" 
> > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:01:43
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Reply-To: "NT System Admin Issues"
> > Subject: RE: Whining...
> >
> >  and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative
> SQL
> > solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)
> >
> > But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real
> differences
> > between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a
> database.
> > Data goes in, and you pull data out.
> >
> >
> > --Matt Ross
> > Ephrata School District
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: Cameron Cooper
> > [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> > Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
> > 12:46:01 -0700
> > Subject: RE: Whining...
> >
> >
> > > Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers
> (hardware
> > and
> > > software)
> > >
> > > - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> > > - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor (we
> > need
> > > unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers =
> boss
> > and
> > > ceo that pucker
> > >
> > > I just work here.
> > >
> > >_
> > > Cameron Cooper
> > > Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified
> > > Aurico Reports, Inc
> > > Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896
> > > ccoo...@aurico.com | www.aurico.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> > > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > > Subject: RE: Whining...
> > >
> > > Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Brian Desmond
> > > br...@briandesmond.com
> > >
> > > c   – 312.731.3132
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> > > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > > Subject: OT: Whining...
> > >
> > > We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license
> version
> > > of SQL Server 2008.
> > >
> > > I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to
> Provantage
> > > yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available
> anymore.
> > >
> > > They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
> > >
> > > Ouch.
> > >
> > > Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the
> moment,
> > nor
> > > an EA, so we're buying box retail.
> > >
> > > We're 

RE: Whining...

[Brian Desmond]

Can you get the perf you need out of a 2 socket box with six cores each?

What features are you using in the Enterprise SKU? 

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c   – 312.731.3132


-Original Message-
From: Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:46 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers (hardware and 
software)

- hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
- software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor (we need 
unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers = boss and 
ceo that pucker

I just work here.

_
Cameron Cooper
Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc
Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896
ccoo...@aurico.com | www.aurico.com


-Original Message-
From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail? 

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c   – 312.731.3132


-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: OT: Whining...

We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license version of 
SQL Server 2008.

I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to Provantage 
yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available anymore.

They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.

Ouch.

Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the moment, nor an 
EA, so we're buying box retail.

We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.

They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony up for 
the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.

Sigh.

Just venting.

Don't mind me...

Kurt

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Andrew S. Baker]

Indeed!!

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker


On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:04 PM,  wrote:

> Go look at what Oracle costs and then you can complain...  ;)
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Matthew W. Ross" 
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:01:43
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Reply-To: "NT System Admin Issues" 
> Subject:
> RE: Whining...
>
>  and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL
> solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)
>
> But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real
> differences between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a
> database. Data goes in, and you pull data out.
>
>
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Cameron Cooper
> [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
> 12:46:01 -0700
> Subject: RE: Whining...
>
>
> > Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers (hardware
> and
> > software)
> >
> > - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> > - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor (we
> need
> > unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers = boss
> and
> > ceo that pucker
> >
> > I just work here.
> >
> >_
> > Cameron Cooper
> > Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified
> > Aurico Reports, Inc
> > Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896
> > ccoo...@aurico.com | www.aurico.com
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: RE: Whining...
> >
> > Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brian Desmond
> > br...@briandesmond.com
> >
> > c   – 312.731.3132
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: OT: Whining...
> >
> > We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license
> version
> > of SQL Server 2008.
> >
> > I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to
> Provantage
> > yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available anymore.
> >
> > They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
> >
> > Ouch.
> >
> > Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the moment,
> nor
> > an EA, so we're buying box retail.
> >
> > We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
> >
> > They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony up
> for
> > the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
> >
> > Sigh.
> >
> > Just venting.
> >
> > Don't mind me...
> >
> > Kurt
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[Matthew W. Ross]

Oracle...  ... No thank you.

But enlighten me: What are the advantages of various SQLs? Why doesn't the 
world kick MS SQL in the head and use free alternatives such as MySQL, Postgres 
and the like? Are there inherent advantages/disadvantages to SQL platforms? I 
would be interested in being less ignorant on the subject.

Complaining? Was I complaining? No, just wondering out loud. (sort-to-speak 
er... email. Whatever.)


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: don@gmail.com
To: NT System Admin
Issues [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
13:04:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Whining...


> Go look at what Oracle costs and then you can complain...  ;)
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: "Matthew W. Ross" 
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:01:43 
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Reply-To: "NT System Admin Issues"
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
>  and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL
> solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)
> 
> But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real differences
> between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a database.
> Data goes in, and you pull data out.
> 
> 
> --Matt Ross
> Ephrata School District
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Cameron Cooper
> [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> [mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
> Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
> 12:46:01 -0700
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> 
> > Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers (hardware
> and
> > software)
> > 
> > - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> > - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor (we
> need
> > unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers = boss
> and
> > ceo that pucker
> > 
> > I just work here.
> > 
> >_
> > Cameron Cooper
> > Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified
> > Aurico Reports, Inc
> > Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896
> > ccoo...@aurico.com | www.aurico.com
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com] 
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: RE: Whining...
> > 
> > Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail? 
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Brian Desmond
> > br...@briandesmond.com
> > 
> > c   – 312.731.3132
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
> > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: OT: Whining...
> > 
> > We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license version
> > of SQL Server 2008.
> > 
> > I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to Provantage
> > yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available anymore.
> > 
> > They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
> > 
> > Ouch.
> > 
> > Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the moment,
> nor
> > an EA, so we're buying box retail.
> > 
> > We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
> > 
> > They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony up
> for
> > the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
> > 
> > Sigh.
> > 
> > Just venting.
> > 
> > Don't mind me...
> > 
> > Kurt
> > 
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> > 
> > 
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> > 
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Rod Trent]

Why not just host the dbs in the Cloud?  Microsoft Azure is ready for db 
consumption and is Microsoft's preferred app to migrate.  Save money on 
hardware, software, management, etc.

-Original Message-
From: don@gmail.com [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:04 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

Go look at what Oracle costs and then you can complain...  ;) Sent from my 
Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "Matthew W. Ross" 
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:01:43
To: NT System Admin Issues
Reply-To: "NT System Admin Issues" 
Subject: RE: Whining...

 and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL 
solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)

But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real differences 
between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a database. Data 
goes in, and you pull data out.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Cameron Cooper
[mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
12:46:01 -0700
Subject: RE: Whining...


> Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers 
> (hardware and
> software)
> 
> - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor 
> (we need unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new 
> servers = boss and ceo that pucker
> 
> I just work here.
> 
>_
> Cameron Cooper
> Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified  Aurico Reports, Inc
> Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896  ccoo...@aurico.com | 
>www.aurico.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail? 
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
> 
> c   – 312.731.3132
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: OT: Whining...
> 
> We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license 
> version of SQL Server 2008.
> 
> I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to 
> Provantage yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available 
> anymore.
> 
> They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the 
> moment, nor an EA, so we're buying box retail.
> 
> We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
> 
> They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony 
> up for the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Just venting.
> 
> Don't mind me...
> 
> Kurt
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~




~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Ziots, Edward]

+1, Oracle is like insanely expensive for Per-Processor Licensing (Especially 
multi-Core systems), so SQL is cheap in comparison...

Z

Edward E. Ziots
CISSP, Network +, Security +
Network Engineer
Lifespan Organization
Email:ezi...@lifespan.org
Cell:401-639-3505


-Original Message-
From: don@gmail.com [mailto:don@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:04 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Whining...

Go look at what Oracle costs and then you can complain...  ;)
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "Matthew W. Ross" 
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:01:43 
To: NT System Admin Issues
Reply-To: "NT System Admin Issues" 
Subject: RE: Whining...

 and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL 
solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)

But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real differences 
between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a database. Data 
goes in, and you pull data out.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Cameron Cooper
[mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
12:46:01 -0700
Subject: RE: Whining...


> Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers (hardware and
> software)
> 
> - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor (we need
> unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers = boss and
> ceo that pucker
> 
> I just work here.
> 
>_
> Cameron Cooper
> Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified
> Aurico Reports, Inc
> Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896
> ccoo...@aurico.com | www.aurico.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail? 
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
> 
> c   – 312.731.3132
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: OT: Whining...
> 
> We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license version
> of SQL Server 2008.
> 
> I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to Provantage
> yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available anymore.
> 
> They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the moment, nor
> an EA, so we're buying box retail.
> 
> We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
> 
> They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony up for
> the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Just venting.
> 
> Don't mind me...
> 
> Kurt
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

Re: Whining...

[don . ely]

Go look at what Oracle costs and then you can complain...  ;)
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "Matthew W. Ross" 
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:01:43 
To: NT System Admin Issues
Reply-To: "NT System Admin Issues" 
Subject: RE: Whining...

 and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL 
solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)

But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real differences 
between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a database. Data 
goes in, and you pull data out.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Cameron Cooper
[mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
12:46:01 -0700
Subject: RE: Whining...


> Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers (hardware and
> software)
> 
> - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor (we need
> unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers = boss and
> ceo that pucker
> 
> I just work here.
> 
>_
> Cameron Cooper
> Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified
> Aurico Reports, Inc
> Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896
> ccoo...@aurico.com | www.aurico.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail? 
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
> 
> c   – 312.731.3132
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: OT: Whining...
> 
> We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license version
> of SQL Server 2008.
> 
> I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to Provantage
> yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available anymore.
> 
> They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the moment, nor
> an EA, so we're buying box retail.
> 
> We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
> 
> They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony up for
> the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Just venting.
> 
> Don't mind me...
> 
> Kurt
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Matthew W. Ross]

... and this is why I wonder why people don't develop for alternative SQL 
solutions ... (MySQL anyone?)

But, I am not a programmer. Nor do I know or understand the real differences 
between different flavors of SQL servers. To me, a database is a database. Data 
goes in, and you pull data out.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Cameron Cooper
[mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Thu, 15 Jul 2010
12:46:01 -0700
Subject: RE: Whining...


> Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers (hardware and
> software)
> 
> - hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
> - software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor (we need
> unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers = boss and
> ceo that pucker
> 
> I just work here.
> 
> _
> Cameron Cooper
> Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified
> Aurico Reports, Inc
> Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896
> ccoo...@aurico.com | www.aurico.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Whining...
> 
> Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail? 
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian Desmond
> br...@briandesmond.com
> 
> c   – 312.731.3132
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: OT: Whining...
> 
> We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license version
> of SQL Server 2008.
> 
> I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to Provantage
> yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available anymore.
> 
> They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the moment, nor
> an EA, so we're buying box retail.
> 
> We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.
> 
> They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony up for
> the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Just venting.
> 
> Don't mind me...
> 
> Kurt
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Cameron Cooper]

Here ya on this one... we are looking to update our DB servers (hardware and 
software)

- hardware - roughly $12,000 for two new servers
- software - SQL 2008 R2 enterprise - roughly $27,000 per processor (we need 
unlimited CALs for our clients) x 4 processors in the new servers = boss and 
ceo that pucker

I just work here.

_
Cameron Cooper
Network Administrator | CompTIA A+ Certified
Aurico Reports, Inc
Phone: 847-890-4021 | Fax: 847-255-1896
ccoo...@aurico.com | www.aurico.com


-Original Message-
From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:33 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Whining...

Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail? 

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c   – 312.731.3132


-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: OT: Whining...

We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license version of 
SQL Server 2008.

I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to Provantage 
yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available anymore.

They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.

Ouch.

Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the moment, nor an 
EA, so we're buying box retail.

We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.

They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony up for 
the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.

Sigh.

Just venting.

Don't mind me...

Kurt

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
<http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

RE: Whining...

[Brian Desmond]

Have you thought about looking at a plan other than buying retail? 

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
br...@briandesmond.com

c   – 312.731.3132


-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:15 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: OT: Whining...

We got a quote last week from Provantage for a single-proc license version of 
SQL Server 2008.

I put in the PR on Tuesday, my purchasing person gets the PO to Provantage 
yesterday, and they kick it back today saying it's not available anymore.

They're only selling R2, which, for this version, is $2000.00 more.

Ouch.

Worse, we're not under any kind of Open License agreement at the moment, nor an 
EA, so we're buying box retail.

We're checking with another vendor to see if they have it in stock.

They probably don't, so I'll have to go to our COO to ask him to pony up for 
the new version, and I'm sure he's not going to be happy.

Sigh.

Just venting.

Don't mind me...

Kurt

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ 
  ~


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~