Re: [ANNOUNCE] IBM SGA/CCLA Submitted for Symphony Source Code Contribution
The Male Merge interface is implemented in Java. So it is not part of the contribution. In this code base, the mail merge function was updated with OO.o 3.x code. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Graham Lauder y...@apache.org wrote: Though MDI is not in the current Symphony contributed code, but if people really like it, I suggest we to think about how to make it in AOO, maybe 4.0 or later... - Simon My hands are up for another lover of Symphony's MDI... :) One of the other cool things in Symphony that I would love to see in AOO, is Symphony's Mail Merge interface. Is that part of the contribution? Cheer GL 2012/5/17 zhangjf zhan...@apache.org On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 11:35 PM, Alexander Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com wrote: Le 16/05/12 09:26, Yue Helen a écrit : Hi Helen Yue, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Contribution Here you can find a document to describe what's inside this code contribution, by highlighting some additional features beyond what's in Apache OpenOffice 3.4. The feature list includes enhancements on performance, usability, functionality, interoperability, as well as globalization, accessibility and more. I actually really like the MDI UI and the context-based dockable properties panes. Alex The MDI feature is not included in the contributed code, while the sidebar feature is in. The MDI feature in fact is from another product IBM Lotus Expeditor which Symphony is integrated on. zhangjf -- Erik Ma
Re: [ANNOUNCE] IBM SGA/CCLA Submitted for Symphony Source Code Contribution
Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 08:10 schrieb Yong Lin Ma: The Male Merge interface is implemented in Java. So it is not part of the contribution. In this code base, the mail merge function was updated with OO.o 3.x code. We can start with collecting the features/differences that makes the Symphony mail merge interface better and more intuitive than the existing one. The next step would to find volunteers who are interested to work on it. Juergen On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Graham Lauder y...@apache.org wrote: Though MDI is not in the current Symphony contributed code, but if people really like it, I suggest we to think about how to make it in AOO, maybe 4.0 or later... - Simon My hands are up for another lover of Symphony's MDI... :) One of the other cool things in Symphony that I would love to see in AOO, is Symphony's Mail Merge interface. Is that part of the contribution? Cheer GL 2012/5/17 zhangjf zhan...@apache.org On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 11:35 PM, Alexander Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com wrote: Le 16/05/12 09:26, Yue Helen a écrit : Hi Helen Yue, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Contribution Here you can find a document to describe what's inside this code contribution, by highlighting some additional features beyond what's in Apache OpenOffice 3.4. The feature list includes enhancements on performance, usability, functionality, interoperability, as well as globalization, accessibility and more. I actually really like the MDI UI and the context-based dockable properties panes. Alex The MDI feature is not included in the contributed code, while the sidebar feature is in. The MDI feature in fact is from another product IBM Lotus Expeditor which Symphony is integrated on. zhangjf -- Erik Ma
Re: Troll warning
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: But what about when their preference is that you don't exist at all? For example, when a LO leader comes onto the Apache list and says that he would like us to fail and that he wants to put us out of our misery, then do we treat that as a mere difference of opinion? Speaking of which, this is interesting. I wonder who's behind so many RTs of that ugly article. https://twitter.com/#!/search/a%20tale%20of%20two%20suites FC PS: Maybe it was deja-vu, but I'd swear I've seen that headline on twitter some months ago. I wonder if the article was re-published after minor editing, or if I'm congusing it with a previous article by the same author, regurgitating the same arguments...
Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list
Hello All, Re: [UX] and where then do we go from here? I've create a new AOO UX home page on the mediawiki: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience From this page the UX community can start to self-organize and get to work! To join the UX community, visit the new UX community member page: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersand capture you information. Please spread the word :) Regards, Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.comwrote: You're already here- just start applying the [UX] tag to relevant Subject: headers. - Original Message - From: Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Cc: Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 12:37 AM Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] [USER EXPERIENCE] - Create ooo-ux mailing list On 2012-05-17, at 07:47 , RGB ES wrote: 2012/5/17 Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com: FWIW, I meant what I said about promoting the idea of a separate UX group here. Early efforts to fork off subgroups are often failures at Apache, and they don't need to be if you keep all the traffic on the dev list. Using tags like [UX] in the subject are a good way of getting a gauge for how much talking needs to be done on-list about the topic. If it becomes burdensome or distractive to discuss UX here, THEN ask for a list. +1. Regards Ricardo +1, too. So. Let's imagine that there are going to be, if not already, lots of +1s and people who want to participate, at least a little, like me. (I ave ulterior motives.) Where then do we go from here? Louis
[UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design
Re: about souce code of write insert a picture ?
The implementation of inserting graphic in Writer is locating at sw module...You can have a look at these classes... 1.SwGrfNode 2.SwFrmFmt 3.SwFlyFrmFmt 4.SwDoc its *pFrmFmtTbl,*pSpzFrmFmtTbl 5.SwFlyAtCntFrm Through breaking at their construct functions in the debug env, the inserting implementation will be clear... On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 9:09 PM, jianlizhao jianlizh...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello could you the tell me openoffice's the write,How to insert a picture,Can you briefly describe the implementation process? insert a picture code in which module ? Regards jianlizhao -- Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏)
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma
Re: Apache OpenOffice Presentation Template
Very Good,I like them... On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Xin Li lxnice...@gmail.com wrote: ok, thanks.:) 2012/5/17 Shenfeng Liu liush...@gmail.com Li Xin, They looks great! While I found a font color problem in your template 4. I fixed it, and will send the new template to you in a private mail. Thanks! - Simon 2012/5/17 Xin Li lxnice...@gmail.com Hi all, I have uploaded three more AOO branded presentation template. Yun chao Xu and I did the design work. Thanks Simon and DaLi's help. Please download them by the link below. Welcome to have a try and give me your feedback or suggestion. Thanks:) http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8511 http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8513 http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8515 -- Forwarded message -- From: chengjh chen...@apache.org Date: 2012/5/17 Subject: Re: Apache OpenOffice Presentation Template To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Expecting more... On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Shenfeng Liu liush...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for your trying! I will upload more later... :) 2012/5/14 Albino Biasutti Neto biasut...@gmail.com Hi. 2012/5/13 Liu Da Li wawal...@gmail.com [...] it looks very good! +1 Best, Albino -- Thanks... Best Regards! Jian Hong Cheng -- Best regards, Xin Li 李欣 UX designer -- Best regards, Xin Li 李欣 UX designer -- Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏)
about souce code of write insert a picture ?
Hello Jim Cheng: Thanks you replay. Could I find a example of openoffice secondary development, programming language use C++ language , the example Achieve Function 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. Where can I download the example program?
Re: [UPDATE SERVICE] proposal a OOo 3.3 update service
Hi, On 17.05.2012 03:13, Kay Schenk wrote: On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, On 16.05.2012 21:58, Kay Schenk wrote: [snip] One of the problems we will run into, esp for Linux (I don't know about other platforms) is that the user has a appended pkgfmt already on the update URL, so in my experimenting, the update call failed because an acceptable package was not found. From my point of view this should not be a problem as it seems that the HTTP server neglects the URL query part in such a static case. I am not an expert here, please correct me if I am wrong. well, I'll try it again...I have several versions to play with...I seem to recall I had to manually delete the pkgfmt business and then I got it to work. I have recently tested on Ubuntu with an old developer snapshot of AOO 3.4. It just worked fine, even with an update URL having the query part. OK...I recall I had to take this off and then it did work with getting me a URL page. I am not sure, if we both about the same. Thus, please let me in more detail describe what I am observing: For the static solution we would have a corresponding HTTP resource (our XML document) at URL X. I see that the HTTP GET requests made by the update functionality in AOO 3.4 and OOo 3.3 to URL X?pkgformat=deb are answered by the HTTP server. The response from the HTTP server contains the requested HTTP resource - in our case the XML document. Then the XML document is parsed by the update functionality in AOO 3.4 resp. OOo 3.3. Two cases needs to be distinguish here: (1) XML document is in the simple form - only containing XML element inst:description with corresponding childs. (2) XML document is in the atom feed form In case (1) the update functionality checks the following three conditions: (a) inst:os content matches the one of the installed version (b) inst:arch content mathes the one of installed version (c) inst:buildid contant - BuildID of newer version - is greater than the BuildID of the installed version. Possible values for inst:os and inst:arch can be found in [1]. If the conditions hold further information are read - inst:version and inst:update - and the user is presented the information that an update is available together with the update URL. If the conditions do not hold - e.g. empty inst:description element the user is presented the information that installed version is up to date. In case (2) the update functionality searches for entries which matches the condition that attribute term of element category matches the one of installed version. Then action as in case (1) are performed on each entry until an entry matches the above conditions. If, I understand your observations correct, you need to remove the query part from the update URL in order to assure that the update functionality recieves the XML document. Is this correct? [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/trunk/main/sal/rtl/source/macro.hxx When I browse to http://update36.services.**openoffice.org/** ProductUpdateService/check.**Update?pkgformat=debhttp://update36.services.openoffice.org/ProductUpdateService/check.Update?pkgformat=debusing the FireFox it provides me the content of the XML document. BTW, I have already updated the XML document as you suggested. As I forgot to include an entry for Linux 32bit in my first try you may be hit my first XML document. I'll get back to you on this later today. Ok, thanks. OK, well since I am at 3.4., I can't help much with this without editing the XML doc yo have out there I'm afraid, so I will take your word for what you say works and just hope we can get on with things. Yes. When you are testing with a released AOO 3.4 you at least need to increase the value of inst:buildid in the XML document to get the information from the update functionality that an update is available. I think I will make a discussion thread to totally ditch the pkgfmt business from Linux update URLs. It would considerably simplify our lives. Do you mean for future versions of AOO? yes...this would be best I think. Installing on Linux automatically can be tricky if you're not root anyway. No harm in just shuttling folks to a page to choose something and then do the install in my mind. I never tried the automatic installation on Linux. I will hae a look in my Ubuntu VM which has OOo 3.3 installed. This may be possible, because this information could also coded into the User-Agent field of the HTTP GET request. I don't get your meaning here. Sorry. The HTTP GET request contains information about the installed version making the request. The needed package format is currently coded as the URL query part. But, it could be also coded in the HTTP User-Agent field. OK, the next step, which we should deal with very cautiously given my past experiment, is to get infra to redirect
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/
Re: about souce code of write insert a picture ?
Here is the AOO dev guide you could look into. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:07 PM, jianlizhao jianlizh...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: Thanks you replay. Could I find a example of openoffice secondary development, programming language use C++ language , the example Achieve Function 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. Where can I download the example program? -- Erik Ma
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Thank you. I get it. The second page should be http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano khir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ -- Erik Ma
Re: about souce code of write insert a picture ?
You mean a kind of customer application developed based on OpenOffice , such as Hello World!,right? On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:07 PM, jianlizhao jianlizh...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: Thanks you replay. Could I find a example of openoffice secondary development, programming language use C++ language , the example Achieve Function 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. Where can I download the example program? -- Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏)
Re: User Researchs
Albino, I have create a wiki page to discuss an AOO UX Social Strategy. See: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience You should capture your initial thoughts and together with the rest of the UX community, we can start to develop our strategy. Regards, Kevin On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote: Albino, Absolutely. Understanding who is using AOO, and why it is important to them, in the context of their digital experience, is critical to our long term survival. In an age of choice, design is differentiator and design matters. As for social research, yes, we need a plan to crowd source the types of info you mentioned below. I'll create a page on the UX wiki to capture our thoughts. The AOO UX community is just getting up and running. We could use your energy and great ideas. Watch your inbox and check out the wiki for more information. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience On Wednesday, May 16, 2012, Albino Biasutti Neto wrote: Hi all, After the release of Apache OpenOffice 3.4, I have read enough news / positive feedback on AOO (at least what I have researched) and using the social networking AOOBr. We can start doing User Researchs with questions or polls or basic questions, which do not last even 2 to 4 minutes for the user. Questions like: - Do you like AOO? - What did you expect AOO? - Do you use but Write, Calc, Impress, basic math? - What to expect from next releases? - Suggests improvements in AOO? - But speaks of his office with packages Usability. - etc. What do you think? Best, Albino
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Erik, I think that some extra text was included in your URL. Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you. I get it. The second page should be http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano khir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ -- Erik Ma
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
May I suggest remove the Affiliation column in member page? People can talk about that in About me if they like. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you. I get it. The second page should be http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano khir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ -- Erik Ma -- Erik Ma
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Erik, Good stuff. Will do. Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: May I suggest remove the Affiliation column in member page? People can talk about that in About me if they like. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you. I get it. The second page should be http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hirano khir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Ma mayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ -- Erik Ma -- Erik Ma
Bad Thread - Was: about souce code of write insert a picture ?
Hi Jian Lizhao, you have been creating this email by replying to another email by Hans Zybura, and then replacing the subject and body. This is bad because it orders incorrectly when using a threaded view in the email client. If you want to copy an email address in a convenient way, just copy and paste it with your mouse rather than hijacking another discussion. Thanks, Peter On 5/18/2012 4:07 PM, jianlizhao wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: Thanks you replay. Could I find a example of openoffice secondary development, programming language use C++ language , the example Achieve Function 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. Where can I download the example program?
Re: Apache OpenOffice Next-Gen logo...
Hello All, I have create an AOO 4.0 Logo Exploration page at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Explorations . Please capture you thoughts related to brand attributes and visual elements that represent the brand attributes. Also, feel free to include any rough concept sketches. No wrong answers here, let brainstorm for a while. Regards, Kevin On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Andre Fischer a...@a-w-f.de wrote: On 09.05.2012 23:37, Dave Fisher wrote: On May 9, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Andre Fischer wrote: On 09.05.2012 08:33, Kevin Grignon wrote: Michael, Thanks for sharing the logo mockups. Also, I appreciate you acknowledging my earlier contributions - most gracious. With AOO 3.4 just hitting the streets, now is the time to think about performing some design research and explorations in support of branding for AOO 4.0. Perhaps you could create an AOO 4.0 logo concepts page on the wiki to capture these great ideas. I also have a number of concepts that I would like to share with you and others for input. Maybe we can do a logo contest similar to the one Apache Flex did? http://incubator.apache.org/**flex/logo-contest.htmlhttp://incubator.apache.org/flex/logo-contest.html I'm a mentor on Apache Flex. That contest was very fun, generated more email on flex-dev than you would believe. There were over 50 different logo submissions submitted from everyone including professional design firms and hobbyists. I am very impressed with the design talent in the Flex community. If we would like to do this then I would gladly go to the flex lists with the contest form. If we do such a contest then we should ask for at least these designs. That sounds like a great idea. I looked a while ago through most of the contest entries and was impressed by a lot of them. But then again, I am not a lawyer^H^H^H^H^H^H designer. -Andre (1) Logo - including dark and light treatments. (2) Web Banner treatment - with room for differing NL text. (3) Presentation template. (4) Application splash screen. (5) Icon. Maybe not all at once, but we should make it clear that the intention would be that the winner would provide the designs and enough guidance for us to proceed. Regards, Dave -Andre In addition, I suggest we capture some background material on the intent of the visual identity. With new AOO contributors and an ever evolving product landscape we may want to revisit the message, positioning and emotions that the identity is looking to realize. This effort should be in concert with any and all AOO business and marketing efforts. Some thoughts... Regards, Kevin On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Wolf Haltonwolf.hal...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting! Seems reminiscent of the Mac square smiley-face logo. It looks like you could make a go at a square logo there, which would be a useful addition. I suggest we go slow with changing main logos, because they are not for showing our creativity but to show continuity to a public with short attention spans. Cheers, Wolf http://evergreen-community-01.**lyrasistechnology.orghttp://evergreen-community-01.lyrasistechnology.org http://sourcefreedom.com Apache developer: wolfhal...@apache.org On May 8, 2012 10:53 PM, Michael Acevedovea1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have decided to move forward and give you an early preview of how I think we should move for the logo of Apache OpenOffice 4 which I think is the general consensus of the next major release of our project pending Apache approval. The logos I am proposing are basically the same but there are a few modifications to the current logo. Below is a description: AOO Next Logo Changes: - The AOO Next logo has a smaller spacing between the letters and changes the word Apache to APACHE in caps (idea taken from Kevin Gringon's proposal in the Wiki). - The color of the APACHE word is now gray (idea taken from Kevin Gringon's Proposal in the Wiki). - Integration of the AOO initials (for one of the logo proposals). - Retirement of the Orb logo and substituting it with a refined concept of the previous OOo logo prior verson 3.2.1. I did this new icon in a conservative manner and I think it will fit best the next release of AOO as it will match with the post AOO 3.4 Application (Writer, Impress, Calc, etc.) icons. The new logo makes a nod to the post-PC era when it comes to how an application icon now looks in our devices. - Keep some commonality with the current Orb Centric logo by keeping the name of the suite with the current font that is being used for our site's logo. Without further waiting, I present to you my logo proposal for AOO 4. Please follow this link: https://skydrive.live.com/**redir.aspx?cid=**69f0fbe8e03b2c13resid=
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. Just my 2 ct Juergen Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Yong Lin Mamayo...@gmail.com wrote: May I suggest remove the Affiliation column in member page? People can talk about that in About me if they like. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Mamayo...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you. I get it. The second page should be http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hiranokhir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Mamayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ -- Erik Ma -- Erik Ma
Re: about souce code of write insert a picture ?
Please refer to Yong Lin's reply...to find expected info from http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:39 PM, jianlizhao jianlizh...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: Yes. a kind of customer application developed based on OpenOffice, call Extensions . the Extensions Has the following features 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. it was simple, but good learning. Thanks... Best Regards! -邮件原件- 发件人: chengjh [mailto:chen...@apache.org] 发送时间: 2012年5月18日 16:19 收件人: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org 主题: Re: about souce code of write insert a picture ? You mean a kind of customer application developed based on OpenOffice , such as Hello World!,right? On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:07 PM, jianlizhao jianlizh...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: Thanks you replay. Could I find a example of openoffice secondary development, programming language use C++ language , the example Achieve Function 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. Where can I download the example program? Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏) -- Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏)
Re: Apache OpenOffice Presentation Template
Tried them again, and looks very good! And your templates got rated higher than mine... :P - Simon 2012/5/18 chengjh chen...@apache.org Very Good,I like them... On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Xin Li lxnice...@gmail.com wrote: ok, thanks.:) 2012/5/17 Shenfeng Liu liush...@gmail.com Li Xin, They looks great! While I found a font color problem in your template 4. I fixed it, and will send the new template to you in a private mail. Thanks! - Simon 2012/5/17 Xin Li lxnice...@gmail.com Hi all, I have uploaded three more AOO branded presentation template. Yun chao Xu and I did the design work. Thanks Simon and DaLi's help. Please download them by the link below. Welcome to have a try and give me your feedback or suggestion. Thanks:) http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8511 http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8513 http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8515 -- Forwarded message -- From: chengjh chen...@apache.org Date: 2012/5/17 Subject: Re: Apache OpenOffice Presentation Template To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Expecting more... On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Shenfeng Liu liush...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for your trying! I will upload more later... :) 2012/5/14 Albino Biasutti Neto biasut...@gmail.com Hi. 2012/5/13 Liu Da Li wawal...@gmail.com [...] it looks very good! +1 Best, Albino -- Thanks... Best Regards! Jian Hong Cheng -- Best regards, Xin Li 李欣 UX designer -- Best regards, Xin Li 李欣 UX designer -- Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏)
Re: about souce code of write insert a picture ?
Curious why do not you have a look at the developer guide? There's enough information to build such a simple application... Helen 2012/5/18 jianlizhao jianlizh...@hotmail.com Hello Jim Cheng: Yes. a kind of customer application developed based on OpenOffice, call Extensions . the Extensions Has the following features 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. it was simple, but good learning. Thanks... Best Regards! -邮件原件- 发件人: chengjh [mailto:chen...@apache.org] 发送时间: 2012年5月18日 16:19 收件人: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org 主题: Re: about souce code of write insert a picture ? You mean a kind of customer application developed based on OpenOffice , such as Hello World!,right? On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:07 PM, jianlizhao jianlizh...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: Thanks you replay. Could I find a example of openoffice secondary development, programming language use C++ language , the example Achieve Function 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. Where can I download the example program? Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏)
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Jurgen, Thanks for your note. While I agree that such a list may not scale, nor accurately reflect the broader contribution, there is much to do, and little structure is in place. The UX list is simply an attempt to build some momentum, and get an idea of who is interested in reaching in and working on some UX-specific tasks. I should note that by community members, I mean people who are keen on working on AOO UX tasks. It was suggested recently, that the term team should not be used in such contexts. Let's try it out. It is low cost, and it will help the UX program get up and running. Regards, Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.comwrote: On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. Just my 2 ct Juergen Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Yong Lin Mamayo...@gmail.com wrote: May I suggest remove the Affiliation column in member page? People can talk about that in About me if they like. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Yong Lin Mamayo...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you. I get it. The second page should be http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_** Experience_Community_Membershttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Members On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Kazunari Hiranokhir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Yong Lin Ma, http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_** OpenOffice_User_Experiencehttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience Try to open the page above. :) On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Yong Lin Mamayo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a good start. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_** OpenOffice_User_Experienceforhttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. I open the page. It is displayed in a mix of Japanese and English characters. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.**openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_** Experience_Community_Memberstohttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design -- Erik Ma -- khir...@apache.org Apache OpenOffice (incubating) http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/ -- Erik Ma -- Erik Ma
about souce code of write insert a picture ?
Hello Jim Cheng: I see http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide. It is schematic respect, Very detailed. I'm looking for a simple practical example Thanks... Best Regards! Please refer to Yong Lin's reply...to find expected info from http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:39 PM, jianlizhao jianlizh...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: Yes. a kind of customer application developed based on OpenOffice, call Extensions . the Extensions Has the following features 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. it was simple, but good learning. Thanks... Best Regards! -邮件原件- 发件人: chengjh [mailto:chen...@apache.org] 发送时间: 2012年5月18日 16:19 收件人: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org 主题: Re: about souce code of write insert a picture ? You mean a kind of customer application developed based on OpenOffice , such as Hello World!,right? On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:07 PM, jianlizhao jianlizh...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: Thanks you replay. Could I find a example of openoffice secondary development, programming language use C++ language , the example Achieve Function 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. Where can I download the example program? Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏) -- Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏)
Re: [ANNOUNCE] IBM SGA/CCLA Submitted for Symphony Source Code Contribution
Juergen, UX has prepared assessment of other merge candidates that assess the areas to emulate, area to avoid, and areas where we can improve from a user experience perspective. We have sample work products that we can use as a template. I'll capture this as a UX exploration task in the UX wiki and ask for volunteers. Do you have a bugzilla ID that we can reference? Regards, Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Juergen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 08:10 schrieb Yong Lin Ma: The Male Merge interface is implemented in Java. So it is not part of the contribution. In this code base, the mail merge function was updated with OO.o 3.x code. We can start with collecting the features/differences that makes the Symphony mail merge interface better and more intuitive than the existing one. The next step would to find volunteers who are interested to work on it. Juergen On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Graham Lauder y...@apache.org wrote: Though MDI is not in the current Symphony contributed code, but if people really like it, I suggest we to think about how to make it in AOO, maybe 4.0 or later... - Simon My hands are up for another lover of Symphony's MDI... :) One of the other cool things in Symphony that I would love to see in AOO, is Symphony's Mail Merge interface. Is that part of the contribution? Cheer GL 2012/5/17 zhangjf zhan...@apache.org On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 11:35 PM, Alexander Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com wrote: Le 16/05/12 09:26, Yue Helen a écrit : Hi Helen Yue, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Contribution Here you can find a document to describe what's inside this code contribution, by highlighting some additional features beyond what's in Apache OpenOffice 3.4. The feature list includes enhancements on performance, usability, functionality, interoperability, as well as globalization, accessibility and more. I actually really like the MDI UI and the context-based dockable properties panes. Alex The MDI feature is not included in the contributed code, while the sidebar feature is in. The MDI feature in fact is from another product IBM Lotus Expeditor which Symphony is integrated on. zhangjf -- Erik Ma
Re: [ANNOUNCE] IBM SGA/CCLA Submitted for Symphony Source Code Contribution
On 5/18/12 11:13 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Juergen, UX has prepared assessment of other merge candidates that assess the areas to emulate, area to avoid, and areas where we can improve from a user experience perspective. We have sample work products that we can use as a template. I'll capture this as a UX exploration task in the UX wiki and ask for volunteers. Do you have a bugzilla ID that we can reference? no I don't have a bugzilla ID. Juergen Regards, Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Juergen Schmidtjogischm...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 08:10 schrieb Yong Lin Ma: The Male Merge interface is implemented in Java. So it is not part of the contribution. In this code base, the mail merge function was updated with OO.o 3.x code. We can start with collecting the features/differences that makes the Symphony mail merge interface better and more intuitive than the existing one. The next step would to find volunteers who are interested to work on it. Juergen On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Graham Laudery...@apache.org wrote: Though MDI is not in the current Symphony contributed code, but if people really like it, I suggest we to think about how to make it in AOO, maybe 4.0 or later... - Simon My hands are up for another lover of Symphony's MDI... :) One of the other cool things in Symphony that I would love to see in AOO, is Symphony's Mail Merge interface. Is that part of the contribution? Cheer GL 2012/5/17 zhangjfzhan...@apache.org On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 11:35 PM, Alexander Thurgood alex.thurg...@gmail.com wrote: Le 16/05/12 09:26, Yue Helen a écrit : Hi Helen Yue, http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Contribution Here you can find a document to describe what's inside this code contribution, by highlighting some additional features beyond what's in Apache OpenOffice 3.4. The feature list includes enhancements on performance, usability, functionality, interoperability, as well as globalization, accessibility and more. I actually really like the MDI UI and the context-based dockable properties panes. Alex The MDI feature is not included in the contributed code, while the sidebar feature is in. The MDI feature in fact is from another product IBM Lotus Expeditor which Symphony is integrated on. zhangjf -- Erik Ma
Re: Apache OpenOffice Presentation Template
Xin and Yun Chao, The templates are nice. Thanks for sharing. Some feedback. In situation where the presentation template uses the logo on each of the template slides, please ensure that the logo is in the exact same location on each. Currently, I found that the the logo shifts location, albeit only a few pixels, when transitioning from the title to content slides. Regards, Kevin On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Shenfeng Liu liush...@gmail.com wrote: Tried them again, and looks very good! And your templates got rated higher than mine... :P - Simon 2012/5/18 chengjh chen...@apache.org Very Good,I like them... On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Xin Li lxnice...@gmail.com wrote: ok, thanks.:) 2012/5/17 Shenfeng Liu liush...@gmail.com Li Xin, They looks great! While I found a font color problem in your template 4. I fixed it, and will send the new template to you in a private mail. Thanks! - Simon 2012/5/17 Xin Li lxnice...@gmail.com Hi all, I have uploaded three more AOO branded presentation template. Yun chao Xu and I did the design work. Thanks Simon and DaLi's help. Please download them by the link below. Welcome to have a try and give me your feedback or suggestion. Thanks:) http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8511 http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8513 http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8515 -- Forwarded message -- From: chengjh chen...@apache.org Date: 2012/5/17 Subject: Re: Apache OpenOffice Presentation Template To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Expecting more... On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Shenfeng Liu liush...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for your trying! I will upload more later... :) 2012/5/14 Albino Biasutti Neto biasut...@gmail.com Hi. 2012/5/13 Liu Da Li wawal...@gmail.com [...] it looks very good! +1 Best, Albino -- Thanks... Best Regards! Jian Hong Cheng -- Best regards, Xin Li 李欣 UX designer -- Best regards, Xin Li 李欣 UX designer -- Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏)
Re: [User Experience] - What is the status of the user experience project?
Hello All, I'm pleased to announce that we have established a new AOO user experience community. Watch http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experiencefor updates. If you're passionate about designing and developing great software, then AOO UX would welcome your support. Please show your support and share you UX interests on the AOO UX community members list. Visit http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_User_Experience_Community_Membersto sign up. AOO UX community seeks to understand who uses AOO and what it means in their life. Let's work together to enhance the existing products, and design our future products. Regards, Kevin AOO User Experience Design On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote: Hello All, Thanks for your interest and responses. @Fernando, your contribution would be great. As I'm new to the effort, and not overly familiar with the past, I'll just be focusing on the future of AOO user experience. Jeurgen's thoughts align well my my perspective. Jeurgen notes: People should work on the things they are interested in and where they think they can help. Important is that we communicate about what we are doing, why we are doing it and that we agree on a common direction to drive our project and product forward. I [Jeurgen] am sure we will identify areas where people have different opinions and especially in this situations communication and explanation is very important to find consensus Therefore, I'll launch a proposal to archive the current content, harvest actionable and relevant backlog items. Then, we can re-establish the UX community and begin to forge a common direction for the UX effort. Regards, Kevin On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Peter Junge peter.ju...@gmx.org wrote: On 5/4/2012 7:07 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote: On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Peter Jungepeter.ju...@gmx.org wrote: my answer wasn't valuing anything, so I'm a little bit puzzled about your reply ;-) I was just thinking aloud Peter, not blaming it on you. :) I'm just annoyed by the usual anti-Sun anti-Oracle rants and history rewriting when in fact the firm supported OO.o and StarOffice development with the wages of its developers. OK, I seem to have missed that your post was pure irony. :-) Peter
Re: Logo of AOO in SVG?
Hello All, I have create an AOO 4.0 Logo Exploration page at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Explorations . Please capture you thoughts related to brand attributes and visual elements that represent the brand attributes. Also, feel free to include any rough concept sketches. No wrong answers here, let brainstorm for a while. Regards, Kevin On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:17 AM, imacat ima...@mail.imacat.idv.tw wrote: On 2012/05/02 01:09, Ian Lynch said: On 1 May 2012 17:35, imacat ima...@mail.imacat.idv.tw wrote: On 2012/04/29 00:06, Ian Lynch said: have an additional question: Where can I find the Nimbus Sans L font? Is it the same as Liberation Sans? Or is it free to download somewhere? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimbus_Sans Wikipedia entry above. I got with Ubuntu Linux. Do a search, I think you Ah? ^^; It's strange I did not see it. I see it now. Sorry for this question and thank you. ^_*' -- Best regards, imacat ^_*' ima...@mail.imacat.idv.tw PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc Woman's Voice News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/ Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/ Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://wofoss.blogspot.com/ Apache OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/ EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/
Re: Yet another Apache Logo
Hello All, I have create an AOO 4.0 Logo Exploration page at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Explorations . Please capture you thoughts related to brand attributes and visual elements that represent the brand attributes. Also, feel free to include any rough concept sketches. No wrong answers here, let brainstorm for a while. Regards, Kevin On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 5:47 AM, Pedro Giffuni p...@apache.org wrote: On 03/22/12 15:26, Juergen Schmidt wrote: Hmm.. MacOS ... you are already a FreeBSD user ... you just don't know it :-P. it's funny, we never met each other in person but I was sure that you tell me something like that ;-) My last sentence was initially longer ... to native BSD. Ugh ... I am becoming predictable !! Hey I am really looking forward to meet you in the future somewhere, maybe ApacheCon in Germany? Anyway we drink a beer or a wine, whatever you prefer ;-) No Jägermeister please, anything but that !! :-P. Pedro.
Re: Thoughts on AOO release size and complexity -- Can we do better? (And what does better mean in this case?)
This is an important issue. Single click installation is expectation of the market place that cannot be ignored. +1 Also keep in mind that both Apple and Microsoft are moving towards 1-click installs from App stores as the new default, so in a few years new PC/Mac users (such as students) will never even look outside of the app store when looking for programs. This calls for a single multi lingual AOO installer which does the right thing without user input. That thing would be looking up users default language, download the corresponding lang pack (remember that user is necessarily connected to Internet when installing from app store) and install it. Next time user starts the app he can be prompted for additional langs. Jan Den 17. mai 2012 kl. 05:24 skrev Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com: Hello All, This is an important issue. Single click installation is expectation of the market place that cannot be ignored. That said, we are not an mobile app, and desktop applications require additional installation configuration by the end user. With regards to language pack, I'll leave the back end to the development folks. From a UX perspective, we might consider the following: - allow the users to single click to install the application using smart default configuration (install location, default language pack, default values, etc.) - progressively disclose secondary installation requirements, such as language packs There are two paths we could explore here: 1 - have language selection as part of install - the user could select the languages they want, and we download and install in background - we should not send people to find installation files for a second, manual install 2 - prompt for additional languages when the user opens the app for the first time - again, download and install in the background Finally, a user should be able to manage the languages from within the product itself. Here again, we take care of downloads, unpacking and installation behind the scenes. Yes, we support many languages and platforms, this is our choice and we should not burden our end users with this complexity. I suspect most user just want to install their platform, select their language pack, and get to work. Let's help them do jsut that. Some thoughts... Regards, Kevin On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 4:23 AM, Raphael Bircher rbirc...@apache.orgwrote: Am 16.05.12 21:53, schrieb Andrew Rist: see idea #5 below On 5/16/2012 12:06 PM, Rob Weir wrote: Release = Size * Platforms * Languages That's the basic math we're dealing with now. Let's ignore SKD and langpacks since they are much smaller. An AOO install is around 150MB. We currently support 6 platforms (taking into account different Linux packaging models), and 15 languages. So Release = 150MB * 6 * 15 = 13.5 GB. Let's look at AOO 3.4.1 where we will probably add Finnish, UK English, Norwegian and Hebrew. So Release = 150MB * 6 * 19 = 17.1 GB. This gets added to the previous 13.5 GB, since we keep older releases around, or at least we do currently. Imagine then future growth. Maybe Windows 64-bit, OS/2, OpenIndiana. Imagine we get back to 44 languages supported via full installers. Then what? Release = 150 MB * 9 * 44 = 59.4 GB. So we're not talking TB's here. But it does add up, if we want preserve the release artifacts for earlier releases. Aside from storage, this is complexity for build a release. It is more stuff to build, more stuff to schlep around people.apache.org for release candidates, more complexity in download scripts, more stuff to sign, more places to make mistake. Someone could make a full time job just managing the builds and releases of this full matrix. Now to be fair, this matrix is optimal for the end user. 99% of the users can download a single file and it has everything they need. No extra things to download. And their download is as small as it can be. It is perfect for them. But I wonder if we can make a radical simplification while still making it really easy for the user? Unless of course, someone wants to volunteer to be a full-time build engineer? ==Idea #1== Factor out the translations for the install program versus the AOO program itself. Make the installer support all languages. Make core installer only have en_US resources. Everything else is provided via language packs. Make the language pack be platform-neutral, e.g., resources only. Rely on the installer that you've already downloaded for the logic to install the language pack. Have the installer prompt the user at the end of the install to install a language pack and then take them to the right webpage to download. Have the installer look in the current directory for any language packs and automatically install them at the end of the install. This would support install fro or other places where additional downloads are
Re: Thoughts on AOO release size and complexity -- Can we do better? (And what does better mean in this case?)
Well said. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Jan Høydahl jan@cominvent.com wrote: This is an important issue. Single click installation is expectation of the market place that cannot be ignored. +1 Also keep in mind that both Apple and Microsoft are moving towards 1-click installs from App stores as the new default, so in a few years new PC/Mac users (such as students) will never even look outside of the app store when looking for programs. This calls for a single multi lingual AOO installer which does the right thing without user input. That thing would be looking up users default language, download the corresponding lang pack (remember that user is necessarily connected to Internet when installing from app store) and install it. Next time user starts the app he can be prompted for additional langs. Jan Den 17. mai 2012 kl. 05:24 skrev Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com : Hello All, This is an important issue. Single click installation is expectation of the market place that cannot be ignored. That said, we are not an mobile app, and desktop applications require additional installation configuration by the end user. With regards to language pack, I'll leave the back end to the development folks. From a UX perspective, we might consider the following: - allow the users to single click to install the application using smart default configuration (install location, default language pack, default values, etc.) - progressively disclose secondary installation requirements, such as language packs There are two paths we could explore here: 1 - have language selection as part of install - the user could select the languages they want, and we download and install in background - we should not send people to find installation files for a second, manual install 2 - prompt for additional languages when the user opens the app for the first time - again, download and install in the background Finally, a user should be able to manage the languages from within the product itself. Here again, we take care of downloads, unpacking and installation behind the scenes. Yes, we support many languages and platforms, this is our choice and we should not burden our end users with this complexity. I suspect most user just want to install their platform, select their language pack, and get to work. Let's help them do jsut that. Some thoughts... Regards, Kevin On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 4:23 AM, Raphael Bircher rbirc...@apache.org wrote: Am 16.05.12 21:53, schrieb Andrew Rist: see idea #5 below On 5/16/2012 12:06 PM, Rob Weir wrote: Release = Size * Platforms * Languages That's the basic math we're dealing with now. Let's ignore SKD and langpacks since they are much smaller. An AOO install is around 150MB. We currently support 6 platforms (taking into account different Linux packaging models), and 15 languages. So Release = 150MB * 6 * 15 = 13.5 GB. Let's look at AOO 3.4.1 where we will probably add Finnish, UK English, Norwegian and Hebrew. So Release = 150MB * 6 * 19 = 17.1 GB. This gets added to the previous 13.5 GB, since we keep older releases around, or at least we do currently. Imagine then future growth. Maybe Windows 64-bit, OS/2, OpenIndiana. Imagine we get back to 44 languages supported via full installers. Then what? Release = 150 MB * 9 * 44 = 59.4 GB. So we're not talking TB's here. But it does add up, if we want preserve the release artifacts for earlier releases. Aside from storage, this is complexity for build a release. It is more stuff to build, more stuff to schlep around people.apache.orgfor release candidates, more complexity in download scripts, more stuff to sign, more places to make mistake. Someone could make a full time job just managing the builds and releases of this full matrix. Now to be fair, this matrix is optimal for the end user. 99% of the users can download a single file and it has everything they need. No extra things to download. And their download is as small as it can be. It is perfect for them. But I wonder if we can make a radical simplification while still making it really easy for the user? Unless of course, someone wants to volunteer to be a full-time build engineer? ==Idea #1== Factor out the translations for the install program versus the AOO program itself. Make the installer support all languages. Make core installer only have en_US resources. Everything else is provided via language packs. Make the language pack be platform-neutral, e.g., resources only. Rely on the installer that you've already downloaded for the logic to install the language pack. Have the installer prompt the user at the end of the install to install a language pack and then take them to the right webpage to download. Have the installer look in the
[EXT] Printing without empty pages
Hi, I am facing the problem that a MailMerge adds empty pages to a document. I know to avoid those pages the user can select to don't print empty pages in the printer settings. I would like to automatically don't print those pages and tried to start the printer dialog myself with: PropertyValue[] propertyValueArray = new PropertyValue[1]; propertyValueArray[0] = new PropertyValue(); propertyValueArray[0].Name = PrintEmptyPages; propertyValueArray[0].Value = new Boolean(false); executeDispatch(xDispatchProvider, .uno:Print, , 0, propertyValueArray); Unfortunatly this has no influence on the settings in the print dialog. I have also tried to save and load the document with the property: property.Name = IsSkipEmptyPages; property.Value = new Boolean(true); but I guess this works only in case one exports a pdf. Has anybody a solution in which the user does't have to care about empty pages himself? best, Fabian
where to post python UNO consultancy request
Hello, I am looking for a consultant to improve integration of my python extension code with UNO. Is this mailing list an appropriate place to post a detailed consultancy request? If not, could you please advise where should I post it? Thanks. Best regards, Alex -- Alexandre Bezroutchko Gremwell bvba +32.479.72.65.27
Contribution to Open Office development - translating to balkanese languages
Title: testni mail Hello, I am willing to contribute to Open Office development. I speak English fluently in written and spoken as well as Bosnian and Croatian. Perhaps I could also contribute to creating localized website for Bosnian language as well as writing (translating) support documentation. Kind regards, Muharem -- Muharem Dobrnjić System Administrator Mediasky d.o.o. II Ulica br. 48 75270 Živinice gsm: +387 63 796 860 www.mediasky.ba
Re: Thoughts on AOO release size and complexity -- Can we do better? (And what does better mean in this case?)
To know how this should impact our planning, it would be wise to understand the respective app stores better. I only know the Apple store from a user perspective so I wouldn't know how much magic you can do during install or if it's just a plain copy of the .app bundle. And I don't know anything tech about Windows store in Win8. Jan Den 18. mai 2012 kl. 11:48 skrev Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com: Well said. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Jan Høydahl jan@cominvent.com wrote: This is an important issue. Single click installation is expectation of the market place that cannot be ignored. +1 Also keep in mind that both Apple and Microsoft are moving towards 1-click installs from App stores as the new default, so in a few years new PC/Mac users (such as students) will never even look outside of the app store when looking for programs. This calls for a single multi lingual AOO installer which does the right thing without user input. That thing would be looking up users default language, download the corresponding lang pack (remember that user is necessarily connected to Internet when installing from app store) and install it. Next time user starts the app he can be prompted for additional langs. Jan Den 17. mai 2012 kl. 05:24 skrev Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com : Hello All, This is an important issue. Single click installation is expectation of the market place that cannot be ignored. That said, we are not an mobile app, and desktop applications require additional installation configuration by the end user. With regards to language pack, I'll leave the back end to the development folks. From a UX perspective, we might consider the following: - allow the users to single click to install the application using smart default configuration (install location, default language pack, default values, etc.) - progressively disclose secondary installation requirements, such as language packs There are two paths we could explore here: 1 - have language selection as part of install - the user could select the languages they want, and we download and install in background - we should not send people to find installation files for a second, manual install 2 - prompt for additional languages when the user opens the app for the first time - again, download and install in the background Finally, a user should be able to manage the languages from within the product itself. Here again, we take care of downloads, unpacking and installation behind the scenes. Yes, we support many languages and platforms, this is our choice and we should not burden our end users with this complexity. I suspect most user just want to install their platform, select their language pack, and get to work. Let's help them do jsut that. Some thoughts... Regards, Kevin On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 4:23 AM, Raphael Bircher rbirc...@apache.org wrote: Am 16.05.12 21:53, schrieb Andrew Rist: see idea #5 below On 5/16/2012 12:06 PM, Rob Weir wrote: Release = Size * Platforms * Languages That's the basic math we're dealing with now. Let's ignore SKD and langpacks since they are much smaller. An AOO install is around 150MB. We currently support 6 platforms (taking into account different Linux packaging models), and 15 languages. So Release = 150MB * 6 * 15 = 13.5 GB. Let's look at AOO 3.4.1 where we will probably add Finnish, UK English, Norwegian and Hebrew. So Release = 150MB * 6 * 19 = 17.1 GB. This gets added to the previous 13.5 GB, since we keep older releases around, or at least we do currently. Imagine then future growth. Maybe Windows 64-bit, OS/2, OpenIndiana. Imagine we get back to 44 languages supported via full installers. Then what? Release = 150 MB * 9 * 44 = 59.4 GB. So we're not talking TB's here. But it does add up, if we want preserve the release artifacts for earlier releases. Aside from storage, this is complexity for build a release. It is more stuff to build, more stuff to schlep around people.apache.orgfor release candidates, more complexity in download scripts, more stuff to sign, more places to make mistake. Someone could make a full time job just managing the builds and releases of this full matrix. Now to be fair, this matrix is optimal for the end user. 99% of the users can download a single file and it has everything they need. No extra things to download. And their download is as small as it can be. It is perfect for them. But I wonder if we can make a radical simplification while still making it really easy for the user? Unless of course, someone wants to volunteer to be a full-time build engineer? ==Idea #1== Factor out the translations for the install program versus the AOO program itself. Make the installer support all languages. Make core installer only have en_US resources. Everything else is provided via language packs.
Re: Troll warning
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 2:38 AM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: But what about when their preference is that you don't exist at all? For example, when a LO leader comes onto the Apache list and says that he would like us to fail and that he wants to put us out of our misery, then do we treat that as a mere difference of opinion? Speaking of which, this is interesting. I wonder who's behind so many RTs of that ugly article. https://twitter.com/#!/search/a%20tale%20of%20two%20suites Conflict sells news stories. OpenOffice and LibreOffice volunteers work together on Community Support Forums will never make a new story. But 'Rob Weir Farts During Playing of LibreOffice National Anthem will be headline news and will be retweeted 100 times. -Rob FC PS: Maybe it was deja-vu, but I'd swear I've seen that headline on twitter some months ago. I wonder if the article was re-published after minor editing, or if I'm congusing it with a previous article by the same author, regurgitating the same arguments...
Re: Troll warning
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: But 'Rob Weir Farts During Playing of LibreOffice National Anthem will be headline news and will be retweeted 100 times. You made me ROFL. Thanks for that. Have a good Friday. FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act - George Orwell
Re: Troll warning
On 18 May 2012 13:21, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: But 'Rob Weir Farts During Playing of LibreOffice National Anthem will be headline news and will be retweeted 100 times. You made me ROFL. Thanks for that. Have a good Friday. I too laughed at this. However, once I stopped laughing I read the article. I'm not sure what the problem is. It seems pretty well balanced to me. I'm happy to see it being retweeted a great deal. It gives space to both the LO has won and the AOO will accelerate innovation arguments. It's now the job of this project to do that innovative work in collaboration with anyone who wants to play. Ross
Re: Troll warning
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.com wrote: On 18 May 2012 13:21, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: But 'Rob Weir Farts During Playing of LibreOffice National Anthem will be headline news and will be retweeted 100 times. You made me ROFL. Thanks for that. Have a good Friday. I too laughed at this. However, once I stopped laughing I read the article. I'm not sure what the problem is. It seems pretty well balanced to me. I'm happy to see it being retweeted a great deal. It It tosses together sound bites of opposing views in order to give a heightened sense of conflict. Add a provocative title and it is ready to serve up to a hungry public. A boxing match is balanced as well, but it is also based on conflict. Personally I'd rather read a full-length opinion piece, thought out, by a LO supporter than an article cobbled together from Slashdot comments. Other's opinions may vary. There is certainly an eager market for tabloid journalism, even in open source. But where is the open source version of The Economist? -Rob gives space to both the LO has won and the AOO will accelerate innovation arguments. It's now the job of this project to do that innovative work in collaboration with anyone who wants to play. Ross
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly. Just my 2 ct Mine too. Juergen Cheers. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: about souce code of write insert a picture ?
Hi all, Please interleave your responses and refrain for the terrible temptation of top posting. The idea is to situate the reader in the context and to maintain the illusion of a conversation. Sorry for top posting this tedious plea, Louis On 2012-05-18, at 05:12 , jianlizhao wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: I see http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide. It is schematic respect, Very detailed. I'm looking for a simple practical example Thanks... Best Regards! Please refer to Yong Lin's reply...to find expected info from http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:39 PM, jianlizhao jianlizh...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: Yes. a kind of customer application developed based on OpenOffice, call Extensions . the Extensions Has the following features 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. it was simple, but good learning. Thanks... Best Regards! -邮件原件- 发件人: chengjh [mailto:chen...@apache.org] 发送时间: 2012年5月18日 16:19 收件人: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org 主题: Re: about souce code of write insert a picture ? You mean a kind of customer application developed based on OpenOffice , such as Hello World!,right? On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:07 PM, jianlizhao jianlizh...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: Thanks you replay. Could I find a example of openoffice secondary development, programming language use C++ language , the example Achieve Function 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. Where can I download the example program? Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏) -- Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏)
Re: Something wrong in download page for Linux users
Hi. 2012/5/17 Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de The problem that you don't get a download link für a .deb package is that Chromium is not recognized. It can run on RPM and DEB based Linux distros. And currently I don't see a possibility to do so. But I hope that someone else can. For IceWeasel I just need to extent the DL scripts. Both problems are already listed to get improved (1st and 2nd row from top): https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Improvements+for+the+download+**webpageshttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Improvements+for+the+download+webpages Thank you! Albino
Re: about souce code of write insert a picture ?
On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 17:12 +0800, jianlizhao wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: I see http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide. It is schematic respect, Very detailed. I'm looking for a simple practical example Thanks... Best Regards! Hello, The site is a tad broken since the migration, but I believe the examples are still there, and hopefully will have something of what you are looking for: http://codesnippets.services.openoffice.org/index.xml Best wishes, //drew Please refer to Yong Lin's reply...to find expected info from http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:39 PM, jianlizhao jianlizh...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: Yes. a kind of customer application developed based on OpenOffice, call Extensions . the Extensions Has the following features 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. it was simple, but good learning. Thanks... Best Regards! -邮件原件- 发件人: chengjh [mailto:chen...@apache.org] 发送时间: 2012年5月18日 16:19 收件人: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org 主题: Re: about souce code of write insert a picture ? You mean a kind of customer application developed based on OpenOffice , such as Hello World!,right? On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 4:07 PM, jianlizhao jianlizh...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello Jim Cheng: Thanks you replay. Could I find a example of openoffice secondary development, programming language use C++ language , the example Achieve Function 1) dialog box 2) Click the button on the dialog box display hello world. Where can I download the example program? Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏)
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
On May 18, 2012, at 6:22 AM, Paulo de Souza Lima wrote: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. Yes, please call it a team or interest group. We do not want to split the community into parts - the project is ONE community. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. Ditto. Regards, Dave If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly. Just my 2 ct Mine too. Juergen Cheers. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] The Save Process continued
2012/5/18 Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie: On Fri, 18 May 2012 06:26:33 +0100 Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie wrote: One aspect of the User Experience which frequently manifests itself for Users is a bad file save, leading to a corrupt file, which is partially or totally irrecoverable Sorry! My previous posting got away before I had completed it. In my programming days (some 25-30 years ago) it was de rigeur that the original file was never over-written until the new file had been completely saved, so that if there was a crash (app, OS, or power failure) the original file existed, perhaps as a .bak file, but there, untouched. This does not happen in OpenOffice (all forks as far as I know). Some thought needs to be given to this and to the defaults of the backup (always create backup to be on by default). Many of the instances of corrupt files are caused by User error (too quick shutdown before write buffers are flushed?); a part of the User Experience is to ensure against the stupidity of Users. +1 There is also a second, less harmful, problem with the save file work-flow: it is quite easy to accidentally uncheck the add file extension on the save dialogue so every now and then we get on the forums windows users that do not know how to open a file because when they double click on it the OS do not recognize it. Maybe we need to eliminate that option and always save with the correct file extension? Regards Ricardo
Re: [UX] The Save Process continued
On Fri, 18 May 2012 16:11:51 +0200 RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/5/18 Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie: On Fri, 18 May 2012 06:26:33 +0100 Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie wrote: One aspect of the User Experience which frequently manifests itself for Users is a bad file save, leading to a corrupt file, which is partially or totally irrecoverable Sorry! My previous posting got away before I had completed it. In my programming days (some 25-30 years ago) it was de rigeur that the original file was never over-written until the new file had been completely saved, so that if there was a crash (app, OS, or power failure) the original file existed, perhaps as a .bak file, but there, untouched. This does not happen in OpenOffice (all forks as far as I know). Some thought needs to be given to this and to the defaults of the backup (always create backup to be on by default). Many of the instances of corrupt files are caused by User error (too quick shutdown before write buffers are flushed?); a part of the User Experience is to ensure against the stupidity of Users. +1 There is also a second, less harmful, problem with the save file work-flow: it is quite easy to accidentally uncheck the add file extension on the save dialogue so every now and then we get on the forums windows users that do not know how to open a file because when they double click on it the OS do not recognize it. Maybe we need to eliminate that option and always save with the correct file extension? Yes, Ricardo, I agree. That option should bbe the default and the switch to turn it off should be well hidden (but available to those who really need it). On the Forum we often get Users complaining that the OS cannot identify their file; diagnosis is almost always that the file has no extension (Windows is stupid about identifying file applications if no extension!). -- Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie
Re: Contribution to Open Office development - translating to balkanese languages
On May 18, 2012, at 1:33 AM, Muharem Dobrnjić wrote: Hello, I am willing to contribute to Open Office development. I speak English fluently in written and spoken as well as Bosnian and Croatian. Perhaps I could also contribute to creating localized website for Bosnian language as well as writing (translating) support documentation. Kind regards, Greetings! All of the old legacy OOo websites were preserved in the SVN repository. You can see the Bosnian one at http://www.openoffice.org/bs/ Websites are edited using the Apache CMS. Please see this page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/website-local.html You can submit patches to bugzilla and ask questions for support on this ML. Regards, Dave Muharem -- mediasky.png Muharem Dobrnjić System Administrator Mediasky d.o.o. II Ulica br. 48 75270 Živinice gsm: +387 63 796 860 www.mediasky.ba
Re: [UX] The Save Process continued
Hi Ricardo, RGB ES schrieb: 2012/5/18 Rory O'Farrellofarr...@iol.ie [..] There is also a second, less harmful, problem with the save file work-flow: it is quite easy to accidentally uncheck the add file extension on the save dialogue so every now and then we get on the forums windows users that do not know how to open a file because when they double click on it the OS do not recognize it. Maybe we need to eliminate that option and always save with the correct file extension? There is no correct file extension for all cases. For example consider text vs csv. But it might help, when the state of the check box is not remembered, but always starts with being checked. Kind regards Regina Regards Ricardo
Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
Hi, Recently there has been some discussion on the projects private ML regarding issues about native language groups and how best to support work groups which will by definition be somewhat circumscribed from the whole by virtue of language without losing the cohesion of a single project focus. I invite others pick that up here:
Re: [UX] The Save Process continued
2012/5/18 Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.de: Hi Ricardo, RGB ES schrieb: 2012/5/18 Rory O'Farrellofarr...@iol.ie [..] There is also a second, less harmful, problem with the save file work-flow: it is quite easy to accidentally uncheck the add file extension on the save dialogue so every now and then we get on the forums windows users that do not know how to open a file because when they double click on it the OS do not recognize it. Maybe we need to eliminate that option and always save with the correct file extension? There is no correct file extension for all cases. For example consider text vs csv. But it might help, when the state of the check box is not remembered, but always starts with being checked. You have a point here... ;) But this makes me think on the difference between Save As and Export: if you create a cvs file from a spreadsheet document I think you are exporting it, not just saving us because you are losing format and properties like formulas, etc. I think that those specially ambiguous file types belongs to Export (which is now pretty empty), not to Save / Save As. By reorganizing Export and Save / Save As it is possible to let the file extension option on the Export dialogue and erase it from Save / Save As. Does this make sense? Regards Ricardo
Re: [EXT] Printing without empty pages
fabian , matbe this comments on a resolved issue https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=87495 can helps ? Hi, I am facing the problem that a MailMerge adds empty pages to a document. I know to avoid those pages the user can select to don't print empty pages in the printer settings. I would like to automatically don't print those pages and tried to start the printer dialog myself with: PropertyValue[] propertyValueArray = new PropertyValue[1]; propertyValueArray[0] = new PropertyValue(); propertyValueArray[0].Name = PrintEmptyPages; propertyValueArray[0].Value = new Boolean(false); executeDispatch(xDispatchProvider, .uno:Print, , 0, propertyValueArray); Unfortunatly this has no influence on the settings in the print dialog. I have also tried to save and load the document with the property: property.Name = IsSkipEmptyPages; property.Value = new Boolean(true); but I guess this works only in case one exports a pdf. Has anybody a solution in which the user does't have to care about empty pages himself? best, Fabian
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/18 drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.com Hi, Recently there has been some discussion on the projects private ML regarding issues about native language groups and how best to support work groups which will by definition be somewhat circumscribed from the whole by virtue of language without losing the cohesion of a single project focus. I invite others pick that up here: That's our case here in Brazil. How can we include people who are not familiar with English language? -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:55 AM, drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Recently there has been some discussion on the projects private ML regarding issues about native language groups and how best to support work groups which will by definition be somewhat circumscribed from the whole by virtue of language without losing the cohesion of a single project focus. I invite others pick that up here: What we do currently: 1) One big ooo-dev list 2) Some NL-specific lists. I don't subscribe to them at all, so others would need to say how they are currently being used. 3) We have some emerging procedures for how volunteers can contribute to product and website translations, but this information is scattered in old ooo-dev posts and not easy to find. I wonder whether a good step forward might be to document on our project website (http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg) the procedures from #3 above. Then when we have a new volunteer on the list we can point them to this information. This could expand to other NL topics such as local marketing/events, trademark usage, NL mailing lists, etc. -Rob
Re: [Build] build problem in svx
Hi all, Regina Henschel schrieb: Hi all, I get the build error make: *** No rule to make target `/cygdrive/c/AOO_2012_5_git/main/svx/inc/svx/xbitmap.hxx', needed by `/cygdrive/c/AOO_2012_5_git/main/solver/340/wntmsci12/workdir/CxxObject/svx/source/engine3d/obj3d.o'. Stop. dmake: Error code 2, while making 'all' I need a hint, where to search for the reason. I thing, I found it: The file xbitmap.hxx was deleted with revision 1336585. It seems I did something wrong, that a rebase did not noticed this. I'll restart with 'clone' to get a clean repository. Kind regards Regina
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:08 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:55 AM, drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Recently there has been some discussion on the projects private ML regarding issues about native language groups and how best to support work groups which will by definition be somewhat circumscribed from the whole by virtue of language without losing the cohesion of a single project focus. I invite others pick that up here: What we do currently: 1) One big ooo-dev list 2) Some NL-specific lists. I don't subscribe to them at all, so others would need to say how they are currently being used. 3) We have some emerging procedures for how volunteers can contribute to product and website translations, but this information is scattered in old ooo-dev posts and not easy to find. I wonder whether a good step forward might be to document on our project website (http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg) the procedures from #3 above. Then when we have a new volunteer on the list we can point them to this information. This could expand to other NL topics such as local marketing/events, trademark usage, NL mailing lists, etc. hmm I would say, eventually yes, but if you mean - one giant dev list is already the decided outcome and so just document it as such, then I'd say no, not yet. I do not think this project is such that one can just say 'the Apache way' and be done with it - there is about to be a new Apache way me thinks. For instance I wonder how much experience there is in the Apache Way with a project which will need to look local in certain places around the world (China, Vietnam, Brasil, Venzuela and Bolivia come to mind quickly) as without this the local government support goes away and without that so does the local project - or at least that is my understanding of the situation in those places. I use that only to say that IMO this needs some real thought as to how this project is going to build itself. //drew -Rob
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:20 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:08 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:55 AM, drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Recently there has been some discussion on the projects private ML regarding issues about native language groups and how best to support work groups which will by definition be somewhat circumscribed from the whole by virtue of language without losing the cohesion of a single project focus. I invite others pick that up here: What we do currently: 1) One big ooo-dev list 2) Some NL-specific lists. I don't subscribe to them at all, so others would need to say how they are currently being used. 3) We have some emerging procedures for how volunteers can contribute to product and website translations, but this information is scattered in old ooo-dev posts and not easy to find. I wonder whether a good step forward might be to document on our project website (http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg) the procedures from #3 above. Then when we have a new volunteer on the list we can point them to this information. This could expand to other NL topics such as local marketing/events, trademark usage, NL mailing lists, etc. hmm I would say, eventually yes, but if you mean - one giant dev list is already the decided outcome and so just document it as such, then I'd say no, not yet. I do not think this project is such that one can just say 'the Apache way' and be done with it - there is about to be a new Apache way me thinks. For instance I wonder how much experience there is in the Apache Way with a project which will need to look local in certain places around the world (China, Vietnam, Brasil, Venzuela and Bolivia come to mind quickly) as without this the local government support goes away and without that so does the local project - or at least that is my understanding of the situation in those places. I use that only to say that IMO this needs some real thought as to how this project is going to build itself. Has any thought been given to reaching out to language-teaching communities at colleges for translation assistance? This would do dual duty of getting help with translation of top-level site information and spreading the word about AOO. There may be teachers who would consider translation of NL pages extra-credit work for students. Don
Re: [UX] The Save Process continued
RGB ES schrieb: 2012/5/18 Regina Henschelrb.hensc...@t-online.de: Hi Ricardo, RGB ES schrieb: 2012/5/18 Rory O'Farrellofarr...@iol.ie [..] There is also a second, less harmful, problem with the save file work-flow: it is quite easy to accidentally uncheck the add file extension on the save dialogue so every now and then we get on the forums windows users that do not know how to open a file because when they double click on it the OS do not recognize it. Maybe we need to eliminate that option and always save with the correct file extension? There is no correct file extension for all cases. For example consider text vs csv. But it might help, when the state of the check box is not remembered, but always starts with being checked. You have a point here... ;) But this makes me think on the difference between Save As and Export: if you create a cvs file from a spreadsheet document I think you are exporting it, not just saving us because you are losing format and properties like formulas, etc. I think that those specially ambiguous file types belongs to Export (which is now pretty empty), not to Save / Save As. By reorganizing Export and Save / Save As it is possible to let the file extension option on the Export dialogue and erase it from Save / Save As. Does this make sense? Currently a filetype goes to Save/ Save As, when an export _and_ an import filter exists. It does not distinguish whether something is lost. If you do not save to 'ODF1.2 extended' always something is lost. I remember there had been a similar discussion on OOo, and especially saving to .doc had been controversial. And also the discussion about this check box is not new and as far as I remember the removal of that check box has been rejected. But I would need to search for those discussions. Kind regards Regina
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:20 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:08 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:55 AM, drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Recently there has been some discussion on the projects private ML regarding issues about native language groups and how best to support work groups which will by definition be somewhat circumscribed from the whole by virtue of language without losing the cohesion of a single project focus. I invite others pick that up here: What we do currently: 1) One big ooo-dev list 2) Some NL-specific lists. I don't subscribe to them at all, so others would need to say how they are currently being used. 3) We have some emerging procedures for how volunteers can contribute to product and website translations, but this information is scattered in old ooo-dev posts and not easy to find. I wonder whether a good step forward might be to document on our project website (http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg) the procedures from #3 above. Then when we have a new volunteer on the list we can point them to this information. This could expand to other NL topics such as local marketing/events, trademark usage, NL mailing lists, etc. hmm I would say, eventually yes, but if you mean - one giant dev list is already the decided outcome and so just document it as such, then I'd say no, not yet. What part of What we do currently was unclear? I do not think this project is such that one can just say 'the Apache way' and be done with it - there is about to be a new Apache way me thinks. For instance I wonder how much experience there is in the Apache Way with a project which will need to look local in certain places around the world (China, Vietnam, Brasil, Venzuela and Bolivia come to mind quickly) as without this the local government support goes away and without that so does the local project - or at least that is my understanding of the situation in those places. I use that only to say that IMO this needs some real thought as to how this project is going to build itself. If someone wants to create a domestic redistribution of AOO and market it locally, in order to get local government support, then they should do it. In fact I'd encourage them to do it. I guarantee that IBM will be making and distributing our own repackaging of AOO. Why shouldn't others? Yes, there are basic trademark issues that will need to be observed, but nothing that would prevent someone from marketing AOO outside of the Apache project. For example, SourceForge put up some banner ads to help promote the AOO 3.4 release. Did they require PMC approval? No. Did they need to discuss their plans in detail on ooo-dev? No. But for the work that is or becomes part of official Apache releases, the work needs to occur here. The decision making needs to occur here. The PMC oversight needs to occur here. Ditto for anyone who claims to speak on behalf of the project, in whatever location or in whatever language. -Rob //drew -Rob
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:29 -0400, Donald Whytock wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:20 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:08 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:55 AM, drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Recently there has been some discussion on the projects private ML regarding issues about native language groups and how best to support work groups which will by definition be somewhat circumscribed from the whole by virtue of language without losing the cohesion of a single project focus. I invite others pick that up here: What we do currently: 1) One big ooo-dev list 2) Some NL-specific lists. I don't subscribe to them at all, so others would need to say how they are currently being used. 3) We have some emerging procedures for how volunteers can contribute to product and website translations, but this information is scattered in old ooo-dev posts and not easy to find. I wonder whether a good step forward might be to document on our project website (http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg) the procedures from #3 above. Then when we have a new volunteer on the list we can point them to this information. This could expand to other NL topics such as local marketing/events, trademark usage, NL mailing lists, etc. hmm I would say, eventually yes, but if you mean - one giant dev list is already the decided outcome and so just document it as such, then I'd say no, not yet. I do not think this project is such that one can just say 'the Apache way' and be done with it - there is about to be a new Apache way me thinks. For instance I wonder how much experience there is in the Apache Way with a project which will need to look local in certain places around the world (China, Vietnam, Brasil, Venzuela and Bolivia come to mind quickly) as without this the local government support goes away and without that so does the local project - or at least that is my understanding of the situation in those places. I use that only to say that IMO this needs some real thought as to how this project is going to build itself. Has any thought been given to reaching out to language-teaching communities at colleges for translation assistance? This would do dual duty of getting help with translation of top-level site information and spreading the word about AOO. There may be teachers who would consider translation of NL pages extra-credit work for students. Sounds like a great idea, if, the reason for this project is simply to scratch an itch - in other words if the goal here is to build the software and then not really concern ourselves with who uses it, because that is outside of the scope of this project and left to others to do (and a valid position, perhaps) then I'd say sure, that sounds like one good avenue to work on. In that scenario of the reason for the project we don't care really about building local teams, only in the work product. //drew Don
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:38 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:29 -0400, Donald Whytock wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:20 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:08 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:55 AM, drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Recently there has been some discussion on the projects private ML regarding issues about native language groups and how best to support work groups which will by definition be somewhat circumscribed from the whole by virtue of language without losing the cohesion of a single project focus. I invite others pick that up here: What we do currently: 1) One big ooo-dev list 2) Some NL-specific lists. I don't subscribe to them at all, so others would need to say how they are currently being used. 3) We have some emerging procedures for how volunteers can contribute to product and website translations, but this information is scattered in old ooo-dev posts and not easy to find. I wonder whether a good step forward might be to document on our project website (http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg) the procedures from #3 above. Then when we have a new volunteer on the list we can point them to this information. This could expand to other NL topics such as local marketing/events, trademark usage, NL mailing lists, etc. hmm I would say, eventually yes, but if you mean - one giant dev list is already the decided outcome and so just document it as such, then I'd say no, not yet. I do not think this project is such that one can just say 'the Apache way' and be done with it - there is about to be a new Apache way me thinks. For instance I wonder how much experience there is in the Apache Way with a project which will need to look local in certain places around the world (China, Vietnam, Brasil, Venzuela and Bolivia come to mind quickly) as without this the local government support goes away and without that so does the local project - or at least that is my understanding of the situation in those places. I use that only to say that IMO this needs some real thought as to how this project is going to build itself. Has any thought been given to reaching out to language-teaching communities at colleges for translation assistance? This would do dual duty of getting help with translation of top-level site information and spreading the word about AOO. There may be teachers who would consider translation of NL pages extra-credit work for students. Sounds like a great idea, if, the reason for this project is simply to scratch an itch - in other words if the goal here is to build the software and then not really concern ourselves with who uses it, because that is outside of the scope of this project and left to others to do (and a valid position, perhaps) then I'd say sure, that sounds like one good avenue to work on. In that scenario of the reason for the project we don't care really about building local teams, only in the work product. //drew I was thinking of a bootstrap. At the moment, if all the policies and procedures and process descriptions are in English, then all your NL communities must start with a person who's capable in both English and the target language. If, on the other hand, you mass-produce translations of those policies and procedures and process descriptions into multiple languages and put them on NL root pages, you've widened your community-founding pool. Yes, scratching an itch. And prying open a door. Don
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:36 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:20 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:08 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:55 AM, drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Recently there has been some discussion on the projects private ML regarding issues about native language groups and how best to support work groups which will by definition be somewhat circumscribed from the whole by virtue of language without losing the cohesion of a single project focus. I invite others pick that up here: What we do currently: 1) One big ooo-dev list 2) Some NL-specific lists. I don't subscribe to them at all, so others would need to say how they are currently being used. 3) We have some emerging procedures for how volunteers can contribute to product and website translations, but this information is scattered in old ooo-dev posts and not easy to find. I wonder whether a good step forward might be to document on our project website (http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg) the procedures from #3 above. Then when we have a new volunteer on the list we can point them to this information. This could expand to other NL topics such as local marketing/events, trademark usage, NL mailing lists, etc. hmm I would say, eventually yes, but if you mean - one giant dev list is already the decided outcome and so just document it as such, then I'd say no, not yet. What part of What we do currently was unclear? I do not think this project is such that one can just say 'the Apache way' and be done with it - there is about to be a new Apache way me thinks. For instance I wonder how much experience there is in the Apache Way with a project which will need to look local in certain places around the world (China, Vietnam, Brasil, Venzuela and Bolivia come to mind quickly) as without this the local government support goes away and without that so does the local project - or at least that is my understanding of the situation in those places. I use that only to say that IMO this needs some real thought as to how this project is going to build itself. If someone wants to create a domestic redistribution of AOO and market it locally, in order to get local government support, then they should do it. In fact I'd encourage them to do it. I guarantee that IBM will be making and distributing our own repackaging of AOO. Why shouldn't others? Yes, there are basic trademark issues that will need to be observed, but nothing that would prevent someone from marketing AOO outside of the Apache project. For example, SourceForge put up some banner ads to help promote the AOO 3.4 release. Did they require PMC approval? No. Did they need to discuss their plans in detail on ooo-dev? No. But for the work that is or becomes part of official Apache releases, the work needs to occur here. The decision making needs to occur here. The PMC oversight needs to occur here. Ditto for anyone who claims to speak on behalf of the project, in whatever location or in whatever language. Hi Rob First - I really am slow at times, so please bear with me. So you are saying I believe that our new project here is not like the old, it is not for this project to market the results of the work, that is to be left for other organizations - beyond of course promoting the project as a way of gathering new contributors. Is that correct? Thanks, //drew
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:44 -0400, Donald Whytock wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:38 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:29 -0400, Donald Whytock wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:20 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:08 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:55 AM, drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Recently there has been some discussion on the projects private ML regarding issues about native language groups and how best to support work groups which will by definition be somewhat circumscribed from the whole by virtue of language without losing the cohesion of a single project focus. I invite others pick that up here: What we do currently: 1) One big ooo-dev list 2) Some NL-specific lists. I don't subscribe to them at all, so others would need to say how they are currently being used. 3) We have some emerging procedures for how volunteers can contribute to product and website translations, but this information is scattered in old ooo-dev posts and not easy to find. I wonder whether a good step forward might be to document on our project website (http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg) the procedures from #3 above. Then when we have a new volunteer on the list we can point them to this information. This could expand to other NL topics such as local marketing/events, trademark usage, NL mailing lists, etc. hmm I would say, eventually yes, but if you mean - one giant dev list is already the decided outcome and so just document it as such, then I'd say no, not yet. I do not think this project is such that one can just say 'the Apache way' and be done with it - there is about to be a new Apache way me thinks. For instance I wonder how much experience there is in the Apache Way with a project which will need to look local in certain places around the world (China, Vietnam, Brasil, Venzuela and Bolivia come to mind quickly) as without this the local government support goes away and without that so does the local project - or at least that is my understanding of the situation in those places. I use that only to say that IMO this needs some real thought as to how this project is going to build itself. Has any thought been given to reaching out to language-teaching communities at colleges for translation assistance? This would do dual duty of getting help with translation of top-level site information and spreading the word about AOO. There may be teachers who would consider translation of NL pages extra-credit work for students. Sounds like a great idea, if, the reason for this project is simply to scratch an itch - in other words if the goal here is to build the software and then not really concern ourselves with who uses it, because that is outside of the scope of this project and left to others to do (and a valid position, perhaps) then I'd say sure, that sounds like one good avenue to work on. In that scenario of the reason for the project we don't care really about building local teams, only in the work product. //drew I was thinking of a bootstrap. At the moment, if all the policies and procedures and process descriptions are in English, then all your NL communities must start with a person who's capable in both English and the target language. If, on the other hand, you mass-produce translations of those policies and procedures and process descriptions into multiple languages and put them on NL root pages, you've widened your community-founding pool. Hi Don, OK, I believe I have it now. Yes, scratching an itch. And prying open a door. Well, I think I'll go wonder off for a bit and let others have a chance to pipe in as they see fit. Thanks, //drew Don
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:48 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:36 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:20 AM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 11:08 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:55 AM, drew jensen drewjensen.in...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Recently there has been some discussion on the projects private ML regarding issues about native language groups and how best to support work groups which will by definition be somewhat circumscribed from the whole by virtue of language without losing the cohesion of a single project focus. I invite others pick that up here: What we do currently: 1) One big ooo-dev list 2) Some NL-specific lists. I don't subscribe to them at all, so others would need to say how they are currently being used. 3) We have some emerging procedures for how volunteers can contribute to product and website translations, but this information is scattered in old ooo-dev posts and not easy to find. I wonder whether a good step forward might be to document on our project website (http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg) the procedures from #3 above. Then when we have a new volunteer on the list we can point them to this information. This could expand to other NL topics such as local marketing/events, trademark usage, NL mailing lists, etc. hmm I would say, eventually yes, but if you mean - one giant dev list is already the decided outcome and so just document it as such, then I'd say no, not yet. What part of What we do currently was unclear? I do not think this project is such that one can just say 'the Apache way' and be done with it - there is about to be a new Apache way me thinks. For instance I wonder how much experience there is in the Apache Way with a project which will need to look local in certain places around the world (China, Vietnam, Brasil, Venzuela and Bolivia come to mind quickly) as without this the local government support goes away and without that so does the local project - or at least that is my understanding of the situation in those places. I use that only to say that IMO this needs some real thought as to how this project is going to build itself. If someone wants to create a domestic redistribution of AOO and market it locally, in order to get local government support, then they should do it. In fact I'd encourage them to do it. I guarantee that IBM will be making and distributing our own repackaging of AOO. Why shouldn't others? Yes, there are basic trademark issues that will need to be observed, but nothing that would prevent someone from marketing AOO outside of the Apache project. For example, SourceForge put up some banner ads to help promote the AOO 3.4 release. Did they require PMC approval? No. Did they need to discuss their plans in detail on ooo-dev? No. But for the work that is or becomes part of official Apache releases, the work needs to occur here. The decision making needs to occur here. The PMC oversight needs to occur here. Ditto for anyone who claims to speak on behalf of the project, in whatever location or in whatever language. Hi Rob First - I really am slow at times, so please bear with me. So you are saying I believe that our new project here is not like the old, it is not for this project to market the results of the work, that is to be left for other organizations - beyond of course promoting the project as a way of gathering new contributors. Not really. I'm not presuming to say what others should or should not want to do. And I'm not going to speculate on what the project wants to do, whatever the heck that means. Let's not speculate or deal in hypothetical about how some hypothetical volunteer from Bolivia may or may not want to do for some hypothetical grant. We don't need an elaborate apparatus to deal with such questions that have not actually occurred here. Instead, let's ask of the here and now: Is there anything any volunteer on the project wants to do, that they believe that they cannot do? I'd encourage them to speak up, regardless of country or language. Let's make a list. IMHO, I believe there is more misunderstanding or even lack of knowledge about The Apache Way than there are cases of it not working for this project. Remember, we've grown very quickly, and a good portion of the current volunteers did not go through all the learning experiences the initial PMC members had last year. So let's make a list of whatever real current problems we think we have. We might be able to deal with those. But I doubt there will be much time left over to deal with hypothetical problems. -Rob Is that correct? Thanks, //drew
RE: [USER EXPERIENCE] Double clicking file name of minimized document
Hi Dennis, thank you for advising me on how to use Windows - but I know that. :-) I'm a member of the ooo-dev list, so please don't CC my email address. What I propose means, I just want to be able to work with OpenOffice Writer the same way I'm used to with Microsoft Word. In many ways, Microsoft Office is still way ahead with regard to usability. Real world scenario: Suppose I have several Writer documents open, some minimized, some hidden behind others. Now I receive a phone call, have a long conversation, and then get back to work on one of those documents hidden from direct view. Because my file manager (e.g. Windows Explorer) is always open and because I don't remember exactly which of the documents I have to work on are already open, I double click the file name in Explorer. Nothing happens. Mmmh, what? (I'm still thinking about the phone call, not really concentrating). I double click again. Nothing happens. Huh? Repeat double clicking, absent-minded. Eventually: Oh, wait, the document seems to be already open. (- Task bar etc.) With Microsoft Word, I would have been back to work on my document immediately, without even thinking twice. It's those small things, that make a difference. That is what user experience is about, don't you think? Please be specific about which operating systems you want the behavior on, because I don't think what you are asking for is usual for Windows. I have seen the Microsoft Office behavior you describe. All systems, of course. Usability is not OS specific. It takes great care to get it right. Programming is always like that, isn't it? I suspect the [Microsoft Office, H.Z.] behavior was added to protect users from opening two instances on the same document and/or not simply report that the document is already open in some/the application. Exactly. Problem is, OpenOffice does simply nothing, not even report that the document is already open - which in itself wouldn't be very useful, right? Quite to the contrary. When OpenOffice would only tell me that the document is already open, instead of doing what I propose, I would laughingly or angrily ask: What were the programmers thinking? Regards, Hans Zybura -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:07 PM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; hzyb...@zybura.com Subject: RE: [USER EXPERIENCE] Double clicking file name of minimized document Um, on Windows, the easy (and only recommended) way to restore is to single-click the file on the task bar. Or you can use Alt-Tab and other techniques to cycle through the open documents and restore the one you want by selecting it among those displayed. (In some applications, you can get to any document instance, minimized or not, via a Window menu option, but it means you need the some application window restored to get the menu.) I imagine that double-clicking on the file name in the documents directory location (understood to be a request to open/launch the resource) runs into the lock on the already-open file and, since the lock is from a running instance, it simply ignores the second open attempt. This appears to be application-specific behavior and is probably an expedient solution that doesn't require separating out edge cases (file being open and locked in a different application than the one associated with the file name, for example). I suggest that the current behavior is preferable to a typical default behavior when an already-locked document is encountered (for some apps: offer to open read-only, over-ride the lock, or cancel). I suppose another option would be to drop the current instance and open the document anew. You are welcome to make a feature request in the Bugzilla. Please be specific about which operating systems you want the behavior on, because I don't think what you are asking for is usual for Windows. I have seen the Microsoft Office behavior you describe. It takes great care to get it right. I suspect the behavior was added to protect users from opening two instances on the same document and/or not simply report that the document is already open in some/the application. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Hans Zybura [mailto:hzyb...@zybura.com] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 05:44 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: [USER EXPERIENCE] Double clicking file name of minimized document Currently with AOO 3.4, double-clicking a file name of an open document that has its document window minimized or in the background does not change the state of the document window at all. The only result on Windows is the mouse pointer changing to hourglass for a short time - nothing else happens. The same is true with earlier Versions of OOo. This is inconvenient and unusual behavior. I didn't test this with AOO 3.4 on MacOs and Linux, but earlier Versions of OOo showed similar results
Re: [WWW] Some issues translating download/index.html
Am 05/10/2012 12:56 AM, schrieb Marcus (OOo): Am 05/10/2012 12:48 AM, schrieb Marcus (OOo): Am 05/09/2012 11:50 PM, schrieb Ariel Constenla-Haile: Hi Marcus, On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 11:02:02PM +0200, Marcus (OOo) wrote: * I had to make a copy of exceptions.css to adapt the cachedimages/*.png URLs It's easy to change the URLs in the file to absolute pathes. If you have no others changes done, then you can include the original CSS file. No need to have an own one. I know, I was trying to do the translation without touching any file in content/download/, so I copied the css file with the modified URLs; then I realized I also needed to turn off language detection and force es language download (which implies modifying some files in content/download, unless some one has a better idea - doable in the short time). Localization was really no point when the DL scripts were created in the old project. Also because every NL community was allowed to do their own thing. The URL is assembled with this line of code: LINK = getLink( VERSION, MIRROR, SCHEMA ); The getLink() function calls somewhen the getLanguage() function to get the ISO code. So, currently no chance to throw in a es term. But from your patch I can see that you have already found a solution. I'm no expert but it looks good. But I think it's possible to make it more clean and generic for others. For example, the getLink() function could be extended to accept an ISO code to get forced to assemble a download URL for a specific language: LINK = getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, MIRROR, SCHEMA ); Then you can include the default CSS (then with the absolute pathes) and JS files (the big advantage !), localize the index.html and just exchange LANGUAGE with es. I've added this to the Wiki page for improvements. I've finished this work. Now it's working as described above. I would like to commit this but don't want to rubbish your work on the Spanish webpages. So, please tell when we can come together. Thanks Marcus
Re: AOO Downloads, false-positive and Beyond
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 4:25 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.comwrote: On 2012-05-15, at 14:49 , Roberto Galoppini wrote: Hi all, as you might now SourceForge is serving the vast majority of AOO binaries downloads, and we provide download stats by country, Operating System, Browser, and traffic source. Some of you are familiar with our stats pages, while others use our APIs. We do have spam detection enabled to identify false-positive traffic like bots, and I wish to share some insights of what happened recently on this front. We noticed that Russia was the highest download country, something that was hard to explain. The popularity was limited to /localized/ru/3.4.0/ Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Win_x86_install_ru.exe We looked at the raw download logs for that file, and saw a lot of downloads from user-agent Download Master. Apparently it is popular in Russia, and apparently it starts hundreds of simultaneous downloads at once. Our download stats system does have some logic to prevent double counting this type of traffic, but it didn't exclude all of the duplicate downloads, so the result was still high. We've updated our download stats logic to correct this, and then reprocessed the raw logs from 2012-05-08 to present, to update the stats. Beyond bringing our ability to provide reliable stats, I wish to throw some new ideas about how we can help Apache OpenOffice to grow: a. We could provide intelligence on which projects were downloaded with Open Office within a week. b. We could cross-merch Apache OpenOffice project with other projects c. We have community management and Internet Marketing to support the community I'm in favour, as you probably can guess--I strongly promoted OOo both as a binary for users and as a source project for developers (considerable overlap)--but do have simple procedural questions, starting with we? You mean, I'd hope, those who simply want to do it? In this case 'we' was simply SourceForge. As we encountered with the OOo Marketing Project, good ideas and intentions can quickly get lost in community cacophony: more noise than signal. What we discovered was that focusing on particular drives and engaging those who would be able to carry them out, long term and without undue stress to their regular lives (this is all volunteer), helped. What I further discovered and tried as much as possible to arrange was the support coordination of small, medium and even large businesses and public sector entities. For instance, a company may have an extension that adds value to AOO and which, by its use, adds huge marketing value to their company and product. I received *a lot* of such requests from companies, and I would like to reacquaint myself with them and they with us, but it takes time. A preliminary list of organizations that were using OOo and probably are interested in AOO can be found at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Major_OpenOffice.org_Deployments The thing that I noted repeatedly was that many organizations, esp. public sector (and also not a small number of individuals coming from a Windows or Mac background) refused or were reluctant to download the product without professional support. The user forums worked great but in the case of public sectors and also companies, they wanted professional support, as they were used to getting (and paying for). This does not mean we must wait for the horse to be hitched to this wagon, not by any means. And I'm working on rekindling those who *were* providing that support. (Besides Sun/Oracle, there were actually quite a few. Some can still be found from http://support.openoffice.org/) We've already run a 250k impressions campaign through our media channels, and we plan to run more. Our community growth hacker and Apache member Rich Bowen has covered Apache OpenOffice both on feathercast and SourceForge blog, and also here we plan to do more videos and interviews. Roberto All in all, thanks, Roberto! I would suggest an IRC meeting with an agenda to start coordinating activities. I also see some implicit milestones. These include drawing attention to what is here, what is coming and how people can use it and contribute to it--without thinking about the Cloud, or cost. And if they must, that there are options there, too. Apparently ooo-dev is still the best place to coordinate marketing-related efforts. I'm working on how we can pass the request of help to our developers' audience, and possibly find some translators and/or devs. As well, wouldn't it be great that over summer we do enough so that when school starts again here in the Northern Hemisphere, students and faculty can actually use something that is all about working together for a better place? Yea, any specific idea in mind? Roberto Ciao Louis -- This e- mail message is intended only for the named
Re: Something wrong in download page for Linux users
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Am 05/17/2012 11:31 PM, schrieb Marcus (OOo): Am 05/17/2012 09:36 PM, schrieb Albino Biasutti Neto: Hi Marcus. 2012/5/17 Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de @Paulo and Albina: Please can you browse to http://www.openoffice.org/** download/test/analyze.htmlhtt**p://www.openoffice.org/** download/test/analyze.htmlhttp://www.openoffice.org/download/test/analyze.html and paste here the content of the table? Then we can see better what could be wrong. Yes! I'm Debian (sid/wheezy amd64) user Chromium: *Variables from the browser**Values*navigator.**platformLinux i686 navigator.platform.**toLowerCase()linux i686navigator.languagept-BR navigator.**userLanguageundefinednavigator**.systemLanguageundefined navigator.userAgentMozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.168 Safari/535.19 navigator.userAgent.**toLowerCase()mozilla/5.0 (x11; linux x86_64) applewebkit/535.19 (khtml, like gecko) chrome/18.0.1025.168 safari/535.19 navigator.javaEnabled()**YesgetLink( VERSION, MIRROR, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/**projects/openofficeorg.mirror/** files/localized/pt-BR/3.4.0/**Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_** 3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_**pt-BR.tar.gz/downloadhttp://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/localized/pt-BR/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_pt-BR.tar.gz/download getArray()skip,Portuguese (Brazilian),http://br-pt.**openoffice.org/,n,y,**ygetPlatform(http://br-pt.openoffice.org/,n,y,ygetPlatform%28 SCHEMA )LinuxgetLanguage()Portuguese (Brazilian)getLanguageISO()pt-**BR hasMirrorLink()true IceWeasel on Debian (ffox): *Variables from the browser **Values*navigator.platform Linux x86_64navigator.platform.**toLowerCase() linux x86_64navigator.language pt-BRnavigator.userLanguage undefinednavigator.**systemLanguage undefinednavigator.userAgent Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.4 Iceweasel/10.0.4navigator.**userAgent.toLowerCase() mozilla/5.0 (x11; linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) gecko/20100101 firefox/10.0.4 iceweasel/10.0.4navigator.**javaEnabled() No getLink( VERSION, MIRROR, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/**projects/openofficeorg.mirror/** files/localized/pt-BR/3.4.0/**Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_** 3.4.0_Linux_x86-64_install-**rpm_pt-BR.tar.gz/**downloadgetArray()http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/localized/pt-BR/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86-64_install-rpm_pt-BR.tar.gz/downloadgetArray%28%29 skip,Portuguese (Brazilian),http://br-pt.**openoffice.org/,n,y,**ygetPlatform(http://br-pt.openoffice.org/,n,y,ygetPlatform%28 SCHEMA ) Linux 64-bitgetLanguage() Portuguese (Brazilian)getLanguageISO() pt-BRhasMirrorLink() true The problem that you don't get a download link für a .deb package is that Chromium is not recognized. It can run on RPM and DEB based Linux distros. And currently I don't see a possibility to do so. But I hope that someone else can. For IceWeasel I just need to extent the DL scripts. Both problems are already listed to get improved (1st and 2nd row from top): https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Improvements+for+the+download+**webpageshttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Improvements+for+the+download+webpages Marcus I've extended the DL logic. Now IceWeasel should be recognized. Please can you tell me what you get when you reload the webpage and try again to download? Or open the analyze.html webpage again. Thanks Marcus-- Could you put a little chart together on that DL rework page on the wiki that shows what we've got so far in terms of what items (platform, browser identification, browser UA string elments etc.) we now have mapping to what install packs? In other words, we're pulling *what* from the user's identification to get them where. That would be helpful. Thanks. Marcus -- MzK The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated. -- Mark Twain
Re: Troll warning
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:30 AM, Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.comwrote: On 18 May 2012 13:21, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: But 'Rob Weir Farts During Playing of LibreOffice National Anthem will be headline news and will be retweeted 100 times. You made me ROFL. Thanks for that. Have a good Friday. I too laughed at this. However, once I stopped laughing I read the article. I'm not sure what the problem is. It seems pretty well balanced to me. I'm happy to see it being retweeted a great deal. It gives space to both the LO has won and the AOO will accelerate innovation arguments. It's now the job of this project to do that innovative work in collaboration with anyone who wants to play. Ross I disagree -- I don't find it balanced at all! It's just one rant after another. Not an article really, a collection of (mostly) negative sound bites...and to what end? So many ridiculous statements, by folks with more emotion than any real business acumen. I could list a few of them and go into my own rant, but I'll pass -- MzK The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated. -- Mark Twain
Re: Something wrong in download page for Linux users
Am 05/18/2012 06:25 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk: On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Am 05/17/2012 11:31 PM, schrieb Marcus (OOo): Am 05/17/2012 09:36 PM, schrieb Albino Biasutti Neto: Hi Marcus. 2012/5/17 Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de @Paulo and Albina: Please can you browse to http://www.openoffice.org/** download/test/analyze.htmlhtt**p://www.openoffice.org/** download/test/analyze.htmlhttp://www.openoffice.org/download/test/analyze.html and paste here the content of the table? Then we can see better what could be wrong. Yes! I'm Debian (sid/wheezy amd64) user Chromium: *Variables from the browser**Values*navigator.**platformLinux i686 navigator.platform.**toLowerCase()linux i686navigator.languagept-BR navigator.**userLanguageundefinednavigator**.systemLanguageundefined navigator.userAgentMozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.168 Safari/535.19 navigator.userAgent.**toLowerCase()mozilla/5.0 (x11; linux x86_64) applewebkit/535.19 (khtml, like gecko) chrome/18.0.1025.168 safari/535.19 navigator.javaEnabled()**YesgetLink( VERSION, MIRROR, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/**projects/openofficeorg.mirror/** files/localized/pt-BR/3.4.0/**Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_** 3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_**pt-BR.tar.gz/downloadhttp://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/localized/pt-BR/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_pt-BR.tar.gz/download getArray()skip,Portuguese (Brazilian),http://br-pt.**openoffice.org/,n,y,**ygetPlatform(http://br-pt.openoffice.org/,n,y,ygetPlatform%28 SCHEMA )LinuxgetLanguage()Portuguese (Brazilian)getLanguageISO()pt-**BR hasMirrorLink()true IceWeasel on Debian (ffox): *Variables from the browser **Values*navigator.platform Linux x86_64navigator.platform.**toLowerCase() linux x86_64navigator.language pt-BRnavigator.userLanguage undefinednavigator.**systemLanguage undefinednavigator.userAgent Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.4 Iceweasel/10.0.4navigator.**userAgent.toLowerCase() mozilla/5.0 (x11; linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) gecko/20100101 firefox/10.0.4 iceweasel/10.0.4navigator.**javaEnabled() No getLink( VERSION, MIRROR, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/**projects/openofficeorg.mirror/** files/localized/pt-BR/3.4.0/**Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_** 3.4.0_Linux_x86-64_install-**rpm_pt-BR.tar.gz/**downloadgetArray()http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/localized/pt-BR/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86-64_install-rpm_pt-BR.tar.gz/downloadgetArray%28%29 skip,Portuguese (Brazilian),http://br-pt.**openoffice.org/,n,y,**ygetPlatform(http://br-pt.openoffice.org/,n,y,ygetPlatform%28 SCHEMA ) Linux 64-bitgetLanguage() Portuguese (Brazilian)getLanguageISO() pt-BRhasMirrorLink() true The problem that you don't get a download link für a .deb package is that Chromium is not recognized. It can run on RPM and DEB based Linux distros. And currently I don't see a possibility to do so. But I hope that someone else can. For IceWeasel I just need to extent the DL scripts. Both problems are already listed to get improved (1st and 2nd row from top): https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Improvements+for+the+download+**webpageshttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Improvements+for+the+download+webpages Marcus I've extended the DL logic. Now IceWeasel should be recognized. Please can you tell me what you get when you reload the webpage and try again to download? Or open the analyze.html webpage again. Thanks Marcus-- Could you put a little chart together on that DL rework page on the wiki that shows what we've got so far in terms of what items (platform, browser identification, browser UA string elments etc.) we now have mapping to what install packs? In other words, we're pulling *what* from the user's identification to get them where. That would be helpful. Right. It's getting difficult to keep the overview about this topic. So I've added a table to the Wiki page. Marcus
Re: [UPDATE SERVICE] proposal for a AOO 3.4 update service
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi On 16.05.2012 20:47, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: On 16.05.2012 19:38, Kay Schenk wrote: On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: On 15.05.2012 20:45, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Am 15.05.12 16:11, schrieb Rob Weir: On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:11 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, From my point of view it would make sense to reactivate a simple update service for AOO 3.4. The update URL for AOO 3.4 is: http://update38.services.** openoffice.org/**ProductUpdateService/check. **Update http://update38.services.openoffice.org/ProductUpdateService/check.Update (plus a query part ?pkgfmt=pkgformat for non-Windows platforms) As this URL resolves to nothing, the user currently gets the following response from the update functionality in AOO 3.4: Status: Checking for an update failed. Description: General Internet error has occurred. I propose provide the following XML document when a HTTP GET request to the above given URL is made: ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? inst:description xmlns:inst=http://**installation.openoffice.org/**description http://installation.openoffice.org/description /inst:description Kay already made such an XML document available at: http://www.openoffice.org/**ProductUpdateService/check.**Update http://www.openoffice.org/ProductUpdateService/check.Update This response would allow the update functionality in AOO 3.4 to return to the user that the version is up to date. Thus, to reactivate an working update service for AOO 3.4 a redirection is needed. Are proposing that we just have a static XML file and redirect the requests so it loads that static file? Yes, as a short-term and fast solution. I can see that as being a useful short-term solution. But soon we'll need some more complicated logic, right? For example, when we enable the 3.3. update check, we'll need to know that updates are available for some languages, but not others. Can we do that all with redirection to static files? Or do we need server-based logic, i.e., a cgi script? Static files would be possible, because each version has its own update service URL, but it would be not the best solution for the long-term. Thus, some server-based logic would make sense. If we're going to need a cgi script in the end, I wonder if it makes sense to start with one now? We could have a simply script that today just always points to the no update available XML for AOO 3.4. But then we make it more complicated as we go. I am currently in preparation of a proposal for an update service for OOo 3.3 installations. Here, I can/will demonstrate how a server-based logic would look like. Can somebody make this happen? I have to admit that do not have the knowledge to do it on my own. If we just redirect to a static file, I think you can just enter a JIRA request for Infra. If we go with a cgi script then we need someone to develop that script first. If nobody objects, I would go for this short-term and static approach and would ask via JIRA request for Infra, if the redirect to the already existing static file can be established. I will use issue 119361 - https://issues.apache.org/ooo/** show_bug.cgi?id=119361 https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=119361- to track the progress on this task. Best regards, Oliver. OK, and a very short update on this. I tried to deal with this and continually ran into issues. At the simplest, I tired to make up a generic update for maybe all platforms and languages that would just take them to a page to choose an update -- basically our download/other.html at this point. I think here some server-side script is needed. A complete generic solution which provides a static XML document is to hard figure out. However, if you exclude the platform and other particulars in a very simple XML file, nothing happens -- in other words, the URL is just ignored and you get a no updates message. This is what is in: /projects/update36/ProductUpdateService/check.update now. That is right. The update functionality searches in the returned XML for its operating system and its architecture and a buildid which is greater than its own. If it does not found it, it assumes that no newer version is available. Also, life is complicated by appending the pkgfmt on update strings in AOO install directory/program/versionrc (for linux...name will vary depending on OS) I will do some further checks with the URL query part. For a static solution the URL query part
RE: [UX] The Save Process continued
I agree with Regina that deciding whether and how to add an extension automatically is a tricky case. I also suspect that the dialog may be standard bits from the platform, at least in the case of Windows. - Dennis PS: For me, the crime was the Windows Shell coming with common extensions not shown by default. This just screws everybody up and it is also a threat opportunity. -Original Message- From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.hensc...@t-online.de] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 07:36 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [UX] The Save Process continued Hi Ricardo, RGB ES schrieb: 2012/5/18 Rory O'Farrellofarr...@iol.ie [..] There is also a second, less harmful, problem with the save file work-flow: it is quite easy to accidentally uncheck the add file extension on the save dialogue so every now and then we get on the forums windows users that do not know how to open a file because when they double click on it the OS do not recognize it. Maybe we need to eliminate that option and always save with the correct file extension? There is no correct file extension for all cases. For example consider text vs csv. But it might help, when the state of the check box is not remembered, but always starts with being checked. Kind regards Regina Regards Ricardo
RE: [USER EXPERIENCE] Double clicking file name of minimized document
I suspect that silently ignoring the open on an already-open document is likely a bug and a Bugzilla issue on that is called for. With regard to what should be done beyond pointing out that the document appears to be opened already, I have no further comment. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Hans Zybura [mailto:hzyb...@zybura.com] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 09:05 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: [USER EXPERIENCE] Double clicking file name of minimized document Hi Dennis, thank you for advising me on how to use Windows - but I know that. :-) I'm a member of the ooo-dev list, so please don't CC my email address. What I propose means, I just want to be able to work with OpenOffice Writer the same way I'm used to with Microsoft Word. In many ways, Microsoft Office is still way ahead with regard to usability. Real world scenario: Suppose I have several Writer documents open, some minimized, some hidden behind others. Now I receive a phone call, have a long conversation, and then get back to work on one of those documents hidden from direct view. Because my file manager (e.g. Windows Explorer) is always open and because I don't remember exactly which of the documents I have to work on are already open, I double click the file name in Explorer. Nothing happens. Mmmh, what? (I'm still thinking about the phone call, not really concentrating). I double click again. Nothing happens. Huh? Repeat double clicking, absent-minded. Eventually: Oh, wait, the document seems to be already open. (- Task bar etc.) [ ... ]
Re: User Researchs
Hi Kevin. 2012/5/18 Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com Albino, I have create a wiki page to discuss an AOO UX Social Strategy. See: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice_User_Experience I saw. You should capture your initial thoughts and together with the rest of the UX community, we can start to develop our strategy. Thank you. I put the informations. Albino
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/18 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org snip Not really. I'm not presuming to say what others should or should not want to do. And I'm not going to speculate on what the project wants to do, whatever the heck that means. Let's not speculate or deal in hypothetical about how some hypothetical volunteer from Bolivia may or may not want to do for some hypothetical grant. We don't need an elaborate apparatus to deal with such questions that have not actually occurred here. Instead, let's ask of the here and now: Is there anything any volunteer on the project wants to do, that they believe that they cannot do? I'd encourage them to speak up, regardless of country or language. Let's make a list. Well, as long as you've opened a channel, I have something to say about it. 1 - I think, because I am a brand new vollunteer, and I'm not a commiter, I can't get admin access to the wiki, wiki servers and wiki database, in order to do what I want/plan to do in it. And I don't know who can do it for me, because TJ has told me it's possible that there's no vollunteer familiar enough with Mediawiki who can do that in infra team (upgrading and installing extensions). So my hands are tied. Just like many users, I am unable to find quick answers to my questions and unable to try solving this problem =) 2 - There's a lot of people here in Brazil willing to help AOO, but they can't because they can't read/write/speak English. I can count at least three right now, in our (provisory) mailing list at Escritório Livre. 3 - Some of them, even knowing English language, have difficulties to reach this list because they feel, let's say, unconfortable in dealing with famous people like many of you. =) Apache seems to be a serious place (maybe too serious) for those people. They are affraid to be misundestood. 4 - Many of us (90% I believe) came from an experience in LibO. There we faced a lot of issues about using brands, names and logos, because there is a lot of misunderstanding about who can or can't use them. Allowing people not directly involved with the project to use AOO brand/logo within certain clear rules could be very usefull and should help people to spread AOO. Sorry but I can't remember the corresponding word in English for the portuguese word sisudo, so I placed the word serious. Maybe someone can help me because Google Translate couldn't. =) IMHO, I believe there is more misunderstanding or even lack of knowledge about The Apache Way than there are cases of it not working for this project. Remember, we've grown very quickly, and a good portion of the current volunteers did not go through all the learning experiences the initial PMC members had last year. That's a fact! So let's make a list of whatever real current problems we think we have. We might be able to deal with those. But I doubt there will be much time left over to deal with hypothetical problems. Well, those I described above are not hypothetical. -Rob Thanks for this opening. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Hi. 2012/5/18 Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. True. :) I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly. Just my 2 ct Mine too. +1 Albino
Re: AOO Downloads, false-positive and Beyond
On 2012-05-18, at 12:15 , Roberto Galoppini wrote: As well, wouldn't it be great that over summer we do enough so that when school starts again here in the Northern Hemisphere, students and faculty can actually use something that is all about working together for a better place? Yea, any specific idea in mind? Yes. Many. What I'd suggest is not to target a particular regional market but a logical one. In this case, let's look at, oh, say, the Portuguese deployment of the Magellan education netbooks. As you recall, earlier instances had Win/MS Office in one partition, Lin/OOo in the other. That implicitly and immediately deprecated free software, as there was little reason to use it. As Paulo has told me, though, things have changed. But the basic elements are the same: gov't. promoted software (now more free) and devices that are inexpensive enough (esp. aftter support) so that they can be widely deployed. Portugal is small—about the size of a Beijing suburb, at least in terms of population (10M) and Brazil is big, nearly 20 times that size. There is also Angola and other former Lusophone polities around the world. My argument is to promote a solution that is, at first, software focused. * AOO in Portuguese (Br/Pt) with local, when possible, support. (If it is not there, we start it or use global options until it is—and it comes into being because the market is or ought to be obvious enough.) * Devices: Intel sided publicly with LibreOffice but earlier had wanted to work with OOo. Frankly, I doubt Intel cares one way or another which flavour is the best but simply wants a suite that has humongous global usage and also crucial community and industrial momentum. We have both. So, we contact Intel. I know the people at the Tizen (formerly Meego) project, and I'm sure others here do, too. Tizen is essentially a mobilized Linux, I believe, and if Intel has worked to get LO on it—I don't know—then whatever it has done would probably work with AOO. The point is to have a package: software on hardware. It need not be mobile per se. The education laptops, too, may not—I don't think they do—use Tizen. The most important point, as I see it, is to have a product that is ready for education—students and teachers—and only secondarily, the hardware. I put it this way, even though I obviously believe in the integrated ensemble, just because the hardware element is so susceptible to change. As well, hardware decisions are usually made more than a year in advance; I don't know when software decisions are made in general but I guess is that the cycle is a little shorter. I think developing this general idea is needed, of course, and to focus on PT is not essential. However, my reason for doing so rests upon what had already been done by Portugal's prior gov't., by the PT users/OOo group, by the wide scale and exciting deployments in Brazil, by Angola's earlier interest in OOo and by Intel's live interest in producing a product that can have global popularity. But all the players here could be replaced by others, of course. And the language could be, I don't know, Italian :-) or even the English they speak up here in Canada, eh? Cheers, Louis Roberto
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org wrote: 2012/5/18 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org snip Not really. I'm not presuming to say what others should or should not want to do. And I'm not going to speculate on what the project wants to do, whatever the heck that means. Let's not speculate or deal in hypothetical about how some hypothetical volunteer from Bolivia may or may not want to do for some hypothetical grant. We don't need an elaborate apparatus to deal with such questions that have not actually occurred here. Instead, let's ask of the here and now: Is there anything any volunteer on the project wants to do, that they believe that they cannot do? I'd encourage them to speak up, regardless of country or language. Let's make a list. Well, as long as you've opened a channel, I have something to say about it. 1 - I think, because I am a brand new vollunteer, and I'm not a commiter, I can't get admin access to the wiki, wiki servers and wiki database, in order to do what I want/plan to do in it. And I don't know who can do it for me, because TJ has told me it's possible that there's no vollunteer familiar enough with Mediawiki who can do that in infra team (upgrading and installing extensions). So my hands are tied. Just like many users, I am unable to find quick answers to my questions and unable to try solving this problem =) But what do you want to do? Even if you had admin access you should not make major changes without first proposing them on the list and seeing if anyone objected. I'd recommend that you start with a proposal for what you want to do. Put it in a new [PROPOSAL] thread on ooo-dev. Once we've discussed the proposal, then we can worry about the access controls. 2 - There's a lot of people here in Brazil willing to help AOO, but they can't because they can't read/write/speak English. I can count at least three right now, in our (provisory) mailing list at Escritório Livre. What do the volunteers want to do? If a volunteer wants to contribute code, they need to understand C++. If they want to contribute to the website design then they need to understand HTML/CSS. And so on. There are basic per-requisite skills needed. And across all of these there is the need to be able to read/write English. I don't see how this can be avoided. But there is no need to be fluent. In fact, I bet we could work via Google Translations, if we were patient. But if someone is good with C++ or with HTML or other technical skills, then I think we can find a way for them to contribute, even with minimal English skills. In other words, we need to be able to communicate together as a project -- all of us. But we don't need to have huge discussion threads. In fact Lazy Consensus and JFDI both encourage getting things done over having lengthy discussions about non controversial proposals. 3 - Some of them, even knowing English language, have difficulties to reach this list because they feel, let's say, unconfortable in dealing with famous people like many of you. =) Apache seems to be a serious place (maybe too serious) for those people. They are affraid to be misundestood. My philosophy with this project was to try to be the first person to make every possible mistake. I looked for things that no was trying, and did them, just to show that it could be done. I didn't care if I looked foolish. I think we need more people willing to take that kind of risk. I think you will find that the project is very forgiving of English learners. 4 - Many of us (90% I believe) came from an experience in LibO. There we faced a lot of issues about using brands, names and logos, because there is a lot of misunderstanding about who can or can't use them. Allowing people not directly involved with the project to use AOO brand/logo within certain clear rules could be very usefull and should help people to spread AOO. We receive and approve trademark and logo requests all the time. We just need a proposal. I can't guarantee that every proposal will be approved, but at least we have a process for reviewing such proposals: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/trademarks.html -Rob Sorry but I can't remember the corresponding word in English for the portuguese word sisudo, so I placed the word serious. Maybe someone can help me because Google Translate couldn't. =) IMHO, I believe there is more misunderstanding or even lack of knowledge about The Apache Way than there are cases of it not working for this project. Remember, we've grown very quickly, and a good portion of the current volunteers did not go through all the learning experiences the initial PMC members had last year. That's a fact! So let's make a list of whatever real current problems we think we have. We might be able to deal with those. But I doubt there will be much time left over to deal with hypothetical problems. Well, those
RE: OpenOffice on eBay
It is free! Who would buy it from you? -Original Message- From: SpindleHill Auctions [mailto:em...@spindlehill.com] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:05 PM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: FW: OpenOffice on eBay Hello, I would like to get further information on how I could sell OpenOffice on eBay, either via download and/or CDROM. I have been selling on eBay since 2004, and I am looking to increase my inventory and sales. Thank you very much for your time and consideration. Thank you, Michael Gaudiosi SpindleHill Auctions em...@spindlehill.com
Re: Troll warning
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:30 AM, Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.com wrote: On 18 May 2012 13:21, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: But 'Rob Weir Farts During Playing of LibreOffice National Anthem will be headline news and will be retweeted 100 times. You made me ROFL. Thanks for that. Have a good Friday. I too laughed at this. However, once I stopped laughing I read the article. I'm not sure what the problem is. It seems pretty well balanced to me. I'm happy to see it being retweeted a great deal. It gives space to both the LO has won and the AOO will accelerate innovation arguments. It's now the job of this project to do that innovative work in collaboration with anyone who wants to play. Ross I disagree -- I don't find it balanced at all! It's just one rant after another. Not an article really, a collection of (mostly) negative sound bites...and to what end? So many ridiculous statements, by folks with more emotion than any real business acumen. I could list a few of them and go into my own rant, but I'll pass -- MzK The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated. -- Mark Twain Re Troll's Bane: Don't you have to value their opinion before it can hurt your feelings? --No, that is pretty cynical Maybe this situation is a little like having a teenager rebelling against their family. Open Office has the far better market penetration and name-recognition. All we have to do is be calm produce announcements about hitting the 1,000,000-mark in downloads to roll over the mean-spirited people who want to rant against AOO. When my teenagers were rebelling, they told me all the time what an awful mean, stupid person I was. I maintained my temper (most of the time) and after a while they stopped rebelling. Most of the people who use LO or AOO are oblivious to any contention and really don't have a negative opinion about any other open-source office suite. -Wolf -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com Open-Source Software in Libraries - http://FOSS4Lib.org Advancing Libraries Together - http://LYRASIS.org Apache Open Office Developer wolfhal...@apache.org
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
Hi, Rob Weir schrieb: On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org wrote: 2012/5/18 Rob Weirrobw...@apache.org snip Not really. I'm not presuming to say what others should or should not want to do. And I'm not going to speculate on what the project wants to do, whatever the heck that means. Let's not speculate or deal in hypothetical about how some hypothetical volunteer from Bolivia may or may not want to do for some hypothetical grant. We don't need an elaborate apparatus to deal with such questions that have not actually occurred here. Instead, let's ask of the here and now: Is there anything any volunteer on the project wants to do, that they believe that they cannot do? I'd encourage them to speak up, regardless of country or language. Let's make a list. Well, as long as you've opened a channel, I have something to say about it. [..] 2 - There's a lot of people here in Brazil willing to help AOO, but they can't because they can't read/write/speak English. I can count at least three right now, in our (provisory) mailing list at Escritório Livre. What do the volunteers want to do? If a volunteer wants to contribute code, they need to understand C++. If they want to contribute to the website design then they need to understand HTML/CSS. And so on. There are basic per-requisite skills needed. And across all of these there is the need to be able to read/write English. I don't see how this can be avoided. It is possible to work on Media-Wiki without English skills. You only need a small sheet with basic formatting commands. The UI of the Wiki uses native language. I don't know how many languages are supported, but I see a lot in the drop down list. Look at the categories FR, ES, JA, or RU to see what is possible. (BTW, you will not see a lot of German content, because we had already ooowiki.de before the openoffice-wiki started, and that has 1000 pages.) You can put a lot of end-user help into the wiki and go far beyond the build-in help. Kind regards Regina
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/18 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Paulo de Souza Lima paulo.s.l...@varekai.org wrote: 2012/5/18 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org snip But what do you want to do? I want to upgrade Mediawiki to MW 1.19.x or, if it's not possible, at least to 1.17.4, and install some useful extensions. This shall not impact any actual function, but will provide us tools to make AOO wiki a lot more usable. Even if you had admin access you should not make major changes without first proposing them on the list and seeing if anyone objected. Yes, I know that. I'd recommend that you start with a proposal for what you want to do. Put it in a new [PROPOSAL] thread on ooo-dev. Once we've discussed the proposal, then we can worry about the access controls. Like this one? http://search.gmane.org/?query=%5BPROPOSAL%5D+Wiki+upgradegroup=gmane.comp.apache.incubator.ooo.devel 2 - There's a lot of people here in Brazil willing to help AOO, but they can't because they can't read/write/speak English. I can count at least three right now, in our (provisory) mailing list at Escritório Livre. What do the volunteers want to do? If a volunteer wants to contribute code, they need to understand C++. If they want to contribute to the website design then they need to understand HTML/CSS. And so on. There are basic per-requisite skills needed. And across all of these there is the need to be able to read/write English. I don't see how this can be avoided. But there is no need to be fluent. In fact, I bet we could work via Google Translations, if we were patient. But if someone is good with C++ or with HTML or other technical skills, then I think we can find a way for them to contribute, even with minimal English skills. They can help in spreading AOO, writing articles, helping user support, lectures, making AOO present in events (soon there will be FISL, and other large events). All of those things have to be made in Brazil and in Portuguese. I thought the example we showed yesterday from that guy who will install AOO in tens of thousands machines for a govenment digital inclusion project should be enough. Most of brazilian volunteers have no programming skills, but there are many other ways they can help. Including some existing ones like UX, wiki, bug hunting, and so on. Just one example: Miss Fatima Conti is a teacher at Pará Federal University. She is a respectable figure in Brazilian Open Source environment. She's more than 70 years old, she's not a programmer, but many many users read her blog. She used to write articles for our old BrOffice.org Magazine, but now she's helping to test AOO within her possibilities. She can do a lot more for AOO, in terms of marketing. But wait! We have no marketing yet. And she doesn't want to join a English mailing list because she has difficulties with this language. There are a lot of other examples. Most of people who wish to help are phisicians, administrators (I am an administrator with some technical skills), lawyers, teachers, account managers, and so on. In other words, we need to be able to communicate together as a project -- all of us. But we don't need to have huge discussion threads. In fact Lazy Consensus and JFDI both encourage getting things done over having lengthy discussions about non controversial proposals. Yes, I do think so. 3 - Some of them, even knowing English language, have difficulties to reach this list because they feel, let's say, unconfortable in dealing with famous people like many of you. =) Apache seems to be a serious place (maybe too serious) for those people. They are affraid to be misundestood. My philosophy with this project was to try to be the first person to make every possible mistake. I looked for things that no was trying, and did them, just to show that it could be done. I didn't care if I looked foolish. I think we need more people willing to take that kind of risk. I think you will find that the project is very forgiving of English learners. Again, yes. 4 - Many of us (90% I believe) came from an experience in LibO. There we faced a lot of issues about using brands, names and logos, because there is a lot of misunderstanding about who can or can't use them. Allowing people not directly involved with the project to use AOO brand/logo within certain clear rules could be very usefull and should help people to spread AOO. We receive and approve trademark and logo requests all the time. We just need a proposal. I can't guarantee that every proposal will be approved, but at least we have a process for reviewing such proposals: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/trademarks.html Ok. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: OpenOffice on eBay
On 2012-05-18, at 14:18 , Chery wrote: It is free! Who would buy it from you? OpenOffice has always been sold on eBay and other similar sites. The advantage to the buyer is that she does not have to download the app., can have it around for future reference, may distribute it to those who otherwise cannot get it (yes, she could burn more and I hope she would), and so on. As well, quite often CDROMs and DVDs contain so-called value-adds. Could be set of (free) extensions or it could be templates, utilities, etc. It actually makes a difference in the minds of many, too, to see the physical object. This is especially so at conferences, where you want handouts, and elsewhere you just want people to try it out *now*. And, lest we not forget the nature of our own circumstances, it actually costs *more* to download a large binary such as AOO than to buy a CDROM containing it (in your language, no less)! Yep: in many if not most parts of the world, bandwidth is costly and charged by the minute or byte or both. The real point of free is the user's ability to work unencumbered with the binaries and source: to become not just another commodity but a producer in a community. -louis -Original Message- From: SpindleHill Auctions [mailto:em...@spindlehill.com] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:05 PM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: FW: OpenOffice on eBay Hello, I would like to get further information on how I could sell OpenOffice on eBay, either via download and/or CDROM. I have been selling on eBay since 2004, and I am looking to increase my inventory and sales. Thank you very much for your time and consideration. Thank you, Michael Gaudiosi SpindleHill Auctions em...@spindlehill.com
Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
2012/5/18 Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.de Hi, snip It is possible to work on Media-Wiki without English skills. You only need a small sheet with basic formatting commands. The UI of the Wiki uses native language. I don't know how many languages are supported, but I see a lot in the drop down list. Look at the categories FR, ES, JA, or RU to see what is possible. (BTW, you will not see a lot of German content, because we had already ooowiki.de before the openoffice-wiki started, and that has 1000 pages.) You can put a lot of end-user help into the wiki and go far beyond the build-in help. Kind regards Regina It's possible to do more than that. It's possible for users to create pages using preformated templates and forms. For example: If a user wishes to include some sort of tutorial in the wiki, he/she could only fill a form in a page. Once he/she clicks in Save buttom, the corresponding page is created, automaticaly categorized and displayed in another page containing a preformated semantic search that shows all related documents together. Without the need to edit pages and pages of references. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: [UX] New AOO User Experience Community
Am Freitag, 18. Mai 2012 um 15:22 schrieb Paulo de Souza Lima: 2012/5/18 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@googlemail.com On 5/18/12 10:32 AM, Kevin Grignon wrote: Erik, Good stuff. Will do. do we really need such a separate page for UX community members? I don't think so and I personally think it goes in the wrong direction. There's nothing to loose, in my view. But I wouldn't call UX a community. I would call it a team. I am personally interested in many different areas of the project and don't want to put my name on X different pages. My contribution in the different areas will be also different and will change from time to time. If you are interested in many areas (just like me) you are free to decide if you will place your name in all of them, or none. I don't see a problem with that. But if I am deeply involved with some project, I would like to place my name on it, for sure. Also, it's important from the user's point of view, to know who are the contacts for the issues they have. And a new contributor who wishes to have a larger involvement with the UX activities (and others too) should be able to identify who else is involved. Such a page doesn't really reflect who is doing the work and is potentially misleading. Again, I don't think so. Indeed, it doesn't reflect who is doing the job, but it gives a clue. It would be worst if users have no clue about that. And Mediawiki has features that can give stronger clues. It's matter of creating some sort of workflow. If there's a workflow, anyone can drive his task, without the need of a coordinator. I could give you an example we done in LibO, but I preffer to show you our own example in AOO: Me and Raul are about to finish a workflow for PT-BR document translations page which is working very fine in LibO and we will make it work here too. When finished, anyone will be able to choose a document, translate it, submit it for revise, revise translation, and all the work of every contributor will be recorded. that sounds interesting but I don't see the relation to a community/team page This could be automated in certain level if we had a better wiki as I have asked for some days ago. sure better or improved tooling is always good but again where is the relation to a people page? We have already a general project page with project members that doesn't reflect the current situation in the project. I agree to this point, but I think a general list too general for the average people. We should think about giving fast answers to AOO users, instead making them navigate through uncountable pages to find what they want. Do you have any idea of how difficult is for people to fill an issue in bugzilla, for example? Findind documentation either. And it's worst for those who can't read/write in English. I do not disagree and I am fine with improving the workflow here. It would be great to have a simplified workflow to submit issues. So let us think about such improvements. The same for documentation. But do think that a page with some names will change anything here? In general such pages are useless from my point of view and get outdated very fast. My personal/professional experience points to another direction. If UX has enthusiastic volunteers who take the task to themselves, they will take care of their workspace. And I think there are very enthusiastic people at this moment. And they wish to do that, but it will be useless if UX couldn't count on devs to hear what they have to say, because UX should be the channel between users and devs. The enthusiasm can go down very quickly. I agree and it is and will not be easy, In the end the work have to be done. That means that people have to convince other people from their ideas. Especially when people are not able to implement it on their own. The better an idea is described and sold the better is the chance that somebody will implement it. Juergen Just my 2 ct Mine too. Juergen Cheers. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
RE: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
Rob has provided clear answers to many of the questions raised. I want to address the choice and use of languages. I have been on the Apache OpenOffice project since it was proposed to the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) at the beginning of June, 2011. I am not a Member or officer of the ASF. I do not speak for the ASF nor for the Apache OpenOffice project. These are my personal understandings: 1. THE WORKING LANGUAGE OF THE APACHE OPENOFFICE PROJECT MUST BE ENGLISH The operation of ASF as a public-interest foundation makes use of English essential. A single working language is needed for governance, project accountability, and public oversight of activities. It is critical for assurance of the integrity of releases, of other deliverables, and operation of infrastructure and support services under the ASF. Having a sustainable community -- following the Apache Way -- requires a shared language. Having all deliberations be public and visible in one place leads to if it didn't happen on the [ooo-dev] list, it didn't happen. It is challenging to operate this way. The principles are important. 2. THERE ARE ACCOMODATIONS AVAILABLE FOR WORKING IN NATIONAL LANGUAGES Have multi-lingual, English-comfortable experts provide oversight and accountability to the Apache OpenOffice (AOO) project. Create governance arrangements that satisfy ASF and AOO requirements. The arrangement for governance of the OpenOffice Community Forums is an example. This requires diligent oversight. Oversight is not management nor is it direct supervision. It does require active attention. 3. IT IS ALWAYS POSSIBLE TO OPERATE DOWNSTREAM AND CONTRIBUTE UPSTREAM At Apache, forking is a feature. So is creation of downstream support and deliverables. Being autonomous requires clean separation: the trademarks and licenses of the ASF must be honored. Ideally, anything that would improve the common code base and shared materials would be contributed back to the origin project using (1) or (2). To claim operation is part of Apache OpenOffice, the work must be under (1) or, at the least, (2). It can all be worked out by discussion toward a mutual agreement. - Dennis PS: I understand that my being a native speaker of English is to my advantage in this situation. It is not in my power to change that. It is in my power to make every effort to support the participation of non-native English speakers. I believe that strong multinational and multicultural participation in Apache OpenOffice is critical. It is possible within the constraints that must be honored. That takes commitment and effort from all of us. -Original Message- From: Paulo de Souza Lima [mailto:paulo.s.l...@varekai.org] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:40 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams [ ... ] 2 - There's a lot of people here in Brazil willing to help AOO, but they can't because they can't read/write/speak English. I can count at least three right now, in our (provisory) mailing list at Escritório Livre. 3 - Some of them, even knowing English language, have difficulties to reach this list because they feel, let's say, unconfortable in dealing with famous people like many of you. =) Apache seems to be a serious place (maybe too serious) for those people. They are affraid to be misundestood. [ ... ] Sorry but I can't remember the corresponding word in English for the portuguese word sisudo, so I placed the word serious. Maybe someone can help me because Google Translate couldn't. =) IMHO, I believe there is more misunderstanding or even lack of knowledge about The Apache Way than there are cases of it not working for this project. Remember, we've grown very quickly, and a good portion of the current volunteers did not go through all the learning experiences the initial PMC members had last year. That's a fact! So let's make a list of whatever real current problems we think we have. We might be able to deal with those. But I doubt there will be much time left over to deal with hypothetical problems. Well, those I described above are not hypothetical. -Rob Thanks for this opening. -- Paulo de Souza Lima http://almalivre.wordpress.com Curitiba - PR Linux User #432358 Ubuntu User #28729
Re: Something wrong in download page for Linux users
On 05/18/2012 09:57 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Am 05/18/2012 06:25 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk: ... Marcus-- Could you put a little chart together on that DL rework page on the wiki that shows what we've got so far in terms of what items (platform, browser identification, browser UA string elments etc.) we now have mapping to what install packs? In other words, we're pulling *what* from the user's identification to get them where. That would be helpful. Right. It's getting difficult to keep the overview about this topic. So I've added a table to the Wiki page. Marcus You might want to modify the Ubuntu section, Ubuntu(ized) Chromium is recognigzed is correct for 32bit, not for 64bit but that will have to wait for http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/117524 to be implemented (i686 issue pointed out by Ariel). Ubuntu Chromium 32bit: Variables from the browser Values navigator.platform Linux i686 navigator.platform.toLowerCase()linux i686 navigator.language en-US navigator.userLanguage undefined navigator.systemLanguageundefined navigator.userAgent Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Ubuntu/11.04 Chromium/18.0.1025.168 Chrome/18.0.1025.168 Safari/535.19 navigator.UserAgent (with Ubuntu?) 69 navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase() mozilla/5.0 (x11; linux i686) applewebkit/535.19 (khtml, like gecko) ubuntu/11.04 chromium/18.0.1025.168 chrome/18.0.1025.168 safari/535.19 navigator.UserAgent (with Ubuntu?) 69 navigator.javaEnabled() Yes JavaScript functions from the DL scriptsReturn values getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, MIRROR, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/stable/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-deb_en-US.tar.gz/download getArray( LANGUAGE )here,English (US),http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html,n,y,y getPlatform( LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) Linux Debian 32-Bit (DEB) getLanguage( LANGUAGE ) English (US) getLanguageISO( LANGUAGE ) en-US sourceforge_getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/stable/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-deb_en-US.tar.gz/download apache_getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/incubator/ooo/files/stable/3.4/files/stable/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-deb_en-US.tar.gz mirrorbrain_getPlatformForMirror( LANGUAGE, SCHEMA )Linux_x86_install-deb mirrorbrain_getFileName( VERSION, LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-deb_en-US.tar.gz mirrorbrain_getExtension( LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ).tar.gz hasMirrorLink( LANGUAGE ) true Same Ubuntu (32bit) machine using standard Google Chrome: Variables from the browser Values navigator.platform Linux i686 navigator.platform.toLowerCase()linux i686 navigator.language en-US navigator.userLanguage undefined navigator.systemLanguageundefined navigator.userAgent Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/536.5 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/19.0.1084.46 Safari/536.5 navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase() mozilla/5.0 (x11; linux i686) applewebkit/536.5 (khtml, like gecko) chrome/19.0.1084.46 safari/536.5 navigator.javaEnabled() Yes JavaScript functions from the DL scriptsReturn values getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, MIRROR, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/stable/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_en-US.tar.gz/download getArray( LANGUAGE )here,English (US),http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html,n,y,y getPlatform( LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) Linux 32-Bit (RPM) getLanguage( LANGUAGE ) English (US) getLanguageISO( LANGUAGE ) en-US sourceforge_getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/stable/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_en-US.tar.gz/download apache_getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/incubator/ooo/files/stable/3.4/files/stable/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_en-US.tar.gz mirrorbrain_getPlatformForMirror( LANGUAGE, SCHEMA )Linux_x86_install-rpm mirrorbrain_getFileName( VERSION, LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_en-US.tar.gz mirrorbrain_getExtension( LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ).tar.gz hasMirrorLink( LANGUAGE ) true The 'Ubuntu' URI is missing from Google Chrome standard, so the download selection defaults to RPM. Same issue with Opera (same 32bit machine): Variables from the browser Values navigator.platform Linux navigator.platform.toLowerCase()linux navigator.language en navigator.userLanguage en navigator.systemLanguageundefined navigator.userAgent Opera/9.80 (X11; Linux i686; U; en) Presto/2.10.229 Version/11.64 navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase() opera/9.80 (x11; linux i686;
MediaWiki update (was Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams)
Hello; --- Ven 18/5/12, Paulo de Souza Lima ha scritto: ... But what do you want to do? I want to upgrade Mediawiki to MW 1.19.x or, if it's not possible, at least to 1.17.4, and install some useful extensions. This shall not impact any actual function, but will provide us tools to make AOO wiki a lot more usable. I opened a JIRA issue: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-4816 I think infra has actually no obligation to work on this as MW is not officially supported here. I even volunteered to help but I actually don't have any experience with MW so please be prepared to provide a listing of the extensions and other things that must be taken into account, just as if you were doing the update. Pedro.
Re: MediaWiki update (was Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams)
On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 13:24 -0700, Pedro Giffuni wrote: Hello; --- Ven 18/5/12, Paulo de Souza Lima ha scritto: ... But what do you want to do? I want to upgrade Mediawiki to MW 1.19.x or, if it's not possible, at least to 1.17.4, and install some useful extensions. This shall not impact any actual function, but will provide us tools to make AOO wiki a lot more usable. I opened a JIRA issue: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-4816 I think infra has actually no obligation to work on this as MW is not officially supported here. I even volunteered to help but I actually don't have any experience with MW so please be prepared to provide a listing of the extensions and other things that must be taken into account, just as if you were doing the update. Hi Pedro. There is a pretty detailed explanation (review) of such things done already - I'll go back and find the reference before the weekend is out. //drew
Re: MediaWiki update (was Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams)
Hi Drew; --- Ven 18/5/12, drew d...@baseanswers.com ha scritto: ... I opened a JIRA issue: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-4816 I think infra has actually no obligation to work on this as MW is not officially supported here. I even volunteered to help but I actually don't have any experience with MW so please be prepared to provide a listing of the extensions and other things that must be taken into account, just as if you were doing the update. Hi Pedro. There is a pretty detailed explanation (review) of such things done already - I'll go back and find the reference before the weekend is out. Please add it to the JIRA issue: it's better to leave all the information in some central place. Pedro.
RE: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams
It seems to me that the volunteers can do what those volunteers wish to do. As long as there is no contribution to materials and code under the custody of the project, it doesn't matter. So is something else wanted, such as identification with Apache OpenOffice? Some sort of official designation? Then it is difficult to avoid the need to fit into the governance and oversight requirements of ASF and AOO. Perhaps an Apache OpenOffice Partner or Supporter or Affiliate arrangement might be easier. Probably not. For those cases involving sites and materials that are under ASF custody, ASF governance must be considered. To have the keys to administration and the code base, it is necessary to submit bugs and patches and establish a pattern of contribution first. And for those who are so privileged, it seems to me that the English working language requirement is part of the accountability. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Paulo de Souza Lima [mailto:paulo.s.l...@varekai.org] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 12:37 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams [ ... ] What do the volunteers want to do? [ ... ] They can help in spreading AOO, writing articles, helping user support, lectures, making AOO present in events (soon there will be FISL, and other large events). All of those things have to be made in Brazil and in Portuguese. I thought the example we showed yesterday from that guy who will install AOO in tens of thousands machines for a govenment digital inclusion project should be enough. Most of brazilian volunteers have no programming skills, but there are many other ways they can help. Including some existing ones like UX, wiki, bug hunting, and so on. Just one example: Miss Fatima Conti is a teacher at Pará Federal University. She is a respectable figure in Brazilian Open Source environment. She's more than 70 years old, she's not a programmer, but many many users read her blog. She used to write articles for our old BrOffice.org Magazine, but now she's helping to test AOO within her possibilities. She can do a lot more for AOO, in terms of marketing. But wait! We have no marketing yet. And she doesn't want to join a English mailing list because she has difficulties with this language. There are a lot of other examples. Most of people who wish to help are phisicians, administrators (I am an administrator with some technical skills), lawyers, teachers, account managers, and so on. [ ... ]
Re: MediaWiki update (was Re: Dealing with a large and diverse project - Native Languages and project teams)
On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 13:30 -0700, Pedro Giffuni wrote: Hi Drew; --- Ven 18/5/12, drew d...@baseanswers.com ha scritto: ... I opened a JIRA issue: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-4816 I think infra has actually no obligation to work on this as MW is not officially supported here. I even volunteered to help but I actually don't have any experience with MW so please be prepared to provide a listing of the extensions and other things that must be taken into account, just as if you were doing the update. Hi Pedro. There is a pretty detailed explanation (review) of such things done already - I'll go back and find the reference before the weekend is out. Please add it to the JIRA issue: it's better to leave all the information in some central place. It might already be attached to JIRA issue, I need to go look. Pedro.
Re: Something wrong in download page for Linux users
Am 05/18/2012 10:03 PM, schrieb NoOp: On 05/18/2012 09:57 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Am 05/18/2012 06:25 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk: ... Marcus-- Could you put a little chart together on that DL rework page on the wiki that shows what we've got so far in terms of what items (platform, browser identification, browser UA string elments etc.) we now have mapping to what install packs? In other words, we're pulling *what* from the user's identification to get them where. That would be helpful. Right. It's getting difficult to keep the overview about this topic. So I've added a table to the Wiki page. Marcus You might want to modify the Ubuntu section, Ubuntu(ized) Chromium is recognigzed is correct for 32bit, not for 64bit but that will have to wait for http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/117524 to be implemented (i686 issue pointed out by Ariel). Thanks for the additonal issue IDs. As Ubuntu is recognized I would believe that the download should be already correct. What happens when you open this webpage: http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/download/index_aoo.html Ubuntu Chromium 32bit: Variables from the browser Values navigator.platform Linux i686 navigator.platform.toLowerCase()linux i686 navigator.language en-US navigator.userLanguage undefined navigator.systemLanguageundefined navigator.userAgent Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Ubuntu/11.04 Chromium/18.0.1025.168 Chrome/18.0.1025.168 Safari/535.19 navigator.UserAgent (with Ubuntu?) 69 navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase() mozilla/5.0 (x11; linux i686) applewebkit/535.19 (khtml, like gecko) ubuntu/11.04 chromium/18.0.1025.168 chrome/18.0.1025.168 safari/535.19 navigator.UserAgent (with Ubuntu?) 69 navigator.javaEnabled() Yes JavaScript functions from the DL scriptsReturn values getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, MIRROR, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/stable/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-deb_en-US.tar.gz/download getArray( LANGUAGE )here,English (US),http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html,n,y,y getPlatform( LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) Linux Debian 32-Bit (DEB) getLanguage( LANGUAGE ) English (US) getLanguageISO( LANGUAGE ) en-US sourceforge_getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/stable/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-deb_en-US.tar.gz/download apache_getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/incubator/ooo/files/stable/3.4/files/stable/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-deb_en-US.tar.gz mirrorbrain_getPlatformForMirror( LANGUAGE, SCHEMA )Linux_x86_install-deb mirrorbrain_getFileName( VERSION, LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-deb_en-US.tar.gz mirrorbrain_getExtension( LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ).tar.gz hasMirrorLink( LANGUAGE ) true Same Ubuntu (32bit) machine using standard Google Chrome: Variables from the browser Values navigator.platform Linux i686 navigator.platform.toLowerCase()linux i686 navigator.language en-US navigator.userLanguage undefined navigator.systemLanguageundefined navigator.userAgent Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/536.5 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/19.0.1084.46 Safari/536.5 navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase() mozilla/5.0 (x11; linux i686) applewebkit/536.5 (khtml, like gecko) chrome/19.0.1084.46 safari/536.5 navigator.javaEnabled() Yes JavaScript functions from the DL scriptsReturn values getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, MIRROR, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/stable/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_en-US.tar.gz/download getArray( LANGUAGE )here,English (US),http://www.openoffice.org/download/other.html,n,y,y getPlatform( LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) Linux 32-Bit (RPM) getLanguage( LANGUAGE ) English (US) getLanguageISO( LANGUAGE ) en-US sourceforge_getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) http://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/stable/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_en-US.tar.gz/download apache_getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/incubator/ooo/files/stable/3.4/files/stable/3.4.0/Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_en-US.tar.gz mirrorbrain_getPlatformForMirror( LANGUAGE, SCHEMA )Linux_x86_install-rpm mirrorbrain_getFileName( VERSION, LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ) Apache_OpenOffice_incubating_3.4.0_Linux_x86_install-rpm_en-US.tar.gz mirrorbrain_getExtension( LANGUAGE, SCHEMA ).tar.gz hasMirrorLink( LANGUAGE ) true The 'Ubuntu' URI is missing from Google Chrome standard, so the download selection defaults to RPM. Right, no recognition -- no smart download. :-( Same issue with Opera (same 32bit machine): Variables from the browser Values navigator.platform
Re: [UPDATE SERVICE] proposal for a AOO 3.4 update service
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi On 16.05.2012 20:47, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: On 16.05.2012 19:38, Kay Schenk wrote: On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: On 15.05.2012 20:45, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote: Am 15.05.12 16:11, schrieb Rob Weir: On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:11 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, From my point of view it would make sense to reactivate a simple update service for AOO 3.4. The update URL for AOO 3.4 is: http://update38.services.** openoffice.org/**ProductUpdateService/check. **Update http://update38.services.openoffice.org/ProductUpdateService/check.Update (plus a query part ?pkgfmt=pkgformat for non-Windows platforms) As this URL resolves to nothing, the user currently gets the following response from the update functionality in AOO 3.4: Status: Checking for an update failed. Description: General Internet error has occurred. I propose provide the following XML document when a HTTP GET request to the above given URL is made: ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-8? inst:description xmlns:inst=http://**installation.openoffice.org/**description http://installation.openoffice.org/description /inst:description Kay already made such an XML document available at: http://www.openoffice.org/**ProductUpdateService/check.**Update http://www.openoffice.org/ProductUpdateService/check.Update This response would allow the update functionality in AOO 3.4 to return to the user that the version is up to date. Thus, to reactivate an working update service for AOO 3.4 a redirection is needed. Are proposing that we just have a static XML file and redirect the requests so it loads that static file? Yes, as a short-term and fast solution. I can see that as being a useful short-term solution. But soon we'll need some more complicated logic, right? For example, when we enable the 3.3. update check, we'll need to know that updates are available for some languages, but not others. Can we do that all with redirection to static files? Or do we need server-based logic, i.e., a cgi script? Static files would be possible, because each version has its own update service URL, but it would be not the best solution for the long-term. Thus, some server-based logic would make sense. If we're going to need a cgi script in the end, I wonder if it makes sense to start with one now? We could have a simply script that today just always points to the no update available XML for AOO 3.4. But then we make it more complicated as we go. I am currently in preparation of a proposal for an update service for OOo 3.3 installations. Here, I can/will demonstrate how a server-based logic would look like. Can somebody make this happen? I have to admit that do not have the knowledge to do it on my own. If we just redirect to a static file, I think you can just enter a JIRA request for Infra. If we go with a cgi script then we need someone to develop that script first. If nobody objects, I would go for this short-term and static approach and would ask via JIRA request for Infra, if the redirect to the already existing static file can be established. I will use issue 119361 - https://issues.apache.org/ooo/** show_bug.cgi?id=119361 https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=119361- to track the progress on this task. Best regards, Oliver. OK, and a very short update on this. I tried to deal with this and continually ran into issues. At the simplest, I tired to make up a generic update for maybe all platforms and languages that would just take them to a page to choose an update -- basically our download/other.html at this point. I think here some server-side script is needed. A complete generic solution which provides a static XML document is to hard figure out. However, if you exclude the platform and other particulars in a very simple XML file, nothing happens -- in other words, the URL is just ignored and you get a no updates message. This is what is in: /projects/update36/ProductUpdateService/check.update now. That is right. The update functionality searches in the returned XML for its operating system and its architecture and a buildid which is greater than its own. If it does not found it, it assumes that no newer version is available. Also, life is complicated by appending the pkgfmt on update strings in AOO install directory/program/versionrc (for linux...name will vary depending on OS) I will do some further checks with the URL query part. For a static solution the URL query part
[DISCUSS] Remove old bugs.
From ooo-qa. We can see a lot old bugs on issues.apache.org. Can we begin removing? It's a key thing for project? I volunteer to this. Eg, https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=4549 (10 years old) -- Kayo Hamid
Re: [WWW] Some issues translating download/index.html
Hi Marcus, On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 06:15:18PM +0200, Marcus (OOo) wrote: For example, the getLink() function could be extended to accept an ISO code to get forced to assemble a download URL for a specific language: LINK = getLink( VERSION, LANGUAGE, MIRROR, SCHEMA ); Then you can include the default CSS (then with the absolute pathes) and JS files (the big advantage !), localize the index.html and just exchange LANGUAGE with es. I've added this to the Wiki page for improvements. I've finished this work. Now it's working as described above. I would like to commit this but don't want to rubbish your work on the Spanish webpages. So, please tell when we can come together. it's only one page: /content/es/descargar/index.html Simply commit your work, and then I update it (or feel free to modify it yourself :) )- Thanks. Regards -- Ariel Constenla-Haile La Plata, Argentina pgpoWk3LYf5KC.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [DISCUSS] Remove old bugs.
On 05/18/12 15:52, Kayo Hamid wrote: From ooo-qa. We can see a lot old bugs on issues.apache.org. Can we begin removing? It's a key thing for project? I volunteer to this. Eg, https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=4549 (10 years old) +1
Re: [UPDATE SERVICE] proposal a OOo 3.3 update service
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 1:09 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, On 17.05.2012 03:13, Kay Schenk wrote: On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann orwittm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, On 16.05.2012 21:58, Kay Schenk wrote: [snip] One of the problems we will run into, esp for Linux (I don't know about other platforms) is that the user has a appended pkgfmt already on the update URL, so in my experimenting, the update call failed because an acceptable package was not found. From my point of view this should not be a problem as it seems that the HTTP server neglects the URL query part in such a static case. I am not an expert here, please correct me if I am wrong. well, I'll try it again...I have several versions to play with...I seem to recall I had to manually delete the pkgfmt business and then I got it to work. I have recently tested on Ubuntu with an old developer snapshot of AOO 3.4. It just worked fine, even with an update URL having the query part. OK...I recall I had to take this off and then it did work with getting me a URL page. I am not sure, if we both about the same. Thus, please let me in more detail describe what I am observing: For the static solution we would have a corresponding HTTP resource (our XML document) at URL X. I see that the HTTP GET requests made by the update functionality in AOO 3.4 and OOo 3.3 to URL X?pkgformat=deb are answered by the HTTP server. The response from the HTTP server contains the requested HTTP resource - in our case the XML document. Then the XML document is parsed by the update functionality in AOO 3.4 resp. OOo 3.3. Two cases needs to be distinguish here: (1) XML document is in the simple form - only containing XML element inst:description with corresponding childs. (2) XML document is in the atom feed form In case (1) the update functionality checks the following three conditions: (a) inst:os content matches the one of the installed version (b) inst:arch content mathes the one of installed version (c) inst:buildid contant - BuildID of newer version - is greater than the BuildID of the installed version. Possible values for inst:os and inst:arch can be found in [1]. If the conditions hold further information are read - inst:version and inst:update - and the user is presented the information that an update is available together with the update URL. If the conditions do not hold - e.g. empty inst:description element the user is presented the information that installed version is up to date. In case (2) the update functionality searches for entries which matches the condition that attribute term of element category matches the one of installed version. Then action as in case (1) are performed on each entry until an entry matches the above conditions. If, I understand your observations correct, you need to remove the query part from the update URL in order to assure that the update functionality recieves the XML document. Is this correct? well this is what I remember...yes. After I did that, I did get the go to URL approach to work. I was running 3.3, can't recall what the build number was. [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/incubator/ooo/trunk/main/** sal/rtl/source/macro.hxxhttps://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/trunk/main/sal/rtl/source/macro.hxx When I browse to http://update36.services.**ope**noffice.org/**http://openoffice.org/** ProductUpdateService/check.Update?pkgformat=debhttp://** update36.services.openoffice.**org/ProductUpdateService/** check.Update?pkgformat=debhttp://update36.services.openoffice.org/ProductUpdateService/check.Update?pkgformat=deb **using the FireFox it provides me the content of the XML document. BTW, I have already updated the XML document as you suggested. As I forgot to include an entry for Linux 32bit in my first try you may be hit my first XML document. I'll get back to you on this later today. Ok, thanks. OK, well since I am at 3.4., I can't help much with this without editing the XML doc yo have out there I'm afraid, so I will take your word for what you say works and just hope we can get on with things. Yes. When you are testing with a released AOO 3.4 you at least need to increase the value of inst:buildid in the XML document to get the information from the update functionality that an update is available. I think I will make a discussion thread to totally ditch the pkgfmt business from Linux update URLs. It would considerably simplify our lives. Do you mean for future versions of AOO? yes...this would be best I think. Installing on Linux automatically can be tricky if you're not root anyway. No harm in just shuttling folks to a page to choose something and then do the install in my mind. I never tried the automatic installation on Linux. I will hae a look in my Ubuntu VM which has OOo 3.3 installed.
