Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 04:46:15 Helen wrote: I personally have mixed feelings about this - the fact that OBS has openSUSE in its name helps to get the openSUSE name 'out there' as its use becomes more popular, but I agree that there is a strong implication for users that it is only for openSUSE. The other reasons raised by Gumb are also valid ones. So a change to just 'open' could be positive in many ways. I'm still relatively new to the project myself, so I don't know the whole story - I imagine this was probably discussed at length when the Build Service first became an entity. Maybe, I don't know either. However I fully support the namechange to Open Build Service - I'm frankly completely sure that it will have a positive impact on the spread of the technology. And I've never heard of a FOSS project, developed by some team or entity, which didn't credit the original authors. In other words, as long as we develop it, I believe there's zarrooo chance we'll loose any brand value. And even if it's forked - well, credit is important in the world of Free Software. So important even Apple's Safari's About dialog TO THIS DAY credits the initial KDE developers who wrote KHTML with their work forming the base of WebKit... Anyway. So I see little danger, great advantage. So I wonder - what are the open objections, if any? On a related note, I Again, apologies if this is old territory being covered again! I was under the impression that Bretzn was being renamed to 'AppInstaller' though perhaps I've got the wrong end of the stick as the saying goes. The source of confusion there is that tere are two things: the cross-distro discussion on app installers (headed by Vincent Untz) and project Bretzn. Bretzn is far more than an app installer - actually the app installer is almost an after-thought, something that would be nice to have. But their focus is on a plugin for IDE's - see the latest announcement (yesterday) and the video in there. Because we are going to be doing a lot of work in the coming months to promote both the OBS and Bretzn, it might be a good idea to clarify naming right away, and also perhaps talk about branding and logos for both of these projects. Is there anything in progress towards developing artwork? Bretzn - I'll see if I can get Nuno to make something, I can claim it's KDE stuff so his responsibility :D OBS, I'm not even sure, does that have some good logo? If not, yes, it'd be awesome to have something... I'm also very much looking forward to a Tumbleweed logo, on that subject :D Again, apologies if this is old territory being covered again! cheers, Helen On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:44 AM, gumb g...@linuxmail.org wrote: Hi. I am forwarding a proposal for the renaming of the openSUSE Build Service, in order to try and increase its adoption and recognition. Indeed, it seems like certain moves may already have been made in this direction but I'm not too clear on that (see below). This is a follow-up to a suggestion by Jos Poortvliet which he originally made mention of in a recent blog post, here: http://nowwhatthe.blogspot.com/2011/01/lca-on-friday.html Whilst I am merely an end-user, he has suggested in the spirit of openness that I contact the project via this list to further the discussion. Essentially, such a renaming could be as 'simple' as calling it the 'Open Build Service', and I note that the Meego project, for example, already seems to use this on some of its webpages, but the main OBS introduction page does not, hence my uncertainty. The reasoning behind this subtle change is that the project has perhaps not gained the traction that it should have done in the wider open source and distro community in consideration of what an advanced and useful tool it is. I see there being two key contributory factors behind this: 1) The very name openSUSE Build Service immediately implies something related and perhaps specific to the openSUSE distribution. Many developers / packagers are simply unaware of its scope. 2) There are those for whom anything associated with the name openSUSE makes them run a mile. Rightfully or wrongfully, all the previous Novell / MS associations forever tarnish the image of openSUSE for some. The OBS is unfairly tarred with the same brush, and no matter how good a service it becomes, this perception is unlikely to change for a long time to come. Of course, general marketing and other factors may also play a part, but I don't think the above two reasons should be easily discounted. Several times I have read conversations involving developers / packagers who are struggling to make packages available for a variety of distros, and when OBS is raised as a potential solution the thread often falls flat or it is dismissed, sometimes for some technical reason or sometimes for no good reason. To appease the latter category of OBS
Re: [opensuse-marketing] openSUSE vs. Fedora
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 08:36:55 jdd wrote: Le 02/02/2011 00:46, Jos Poortvliet a écrit : I wanted to point out things which are unique to openSUSE. Frankly, I don't believe there are huge differences in ease of use, administration capabilities and hardware support between the major distro's... hardware support is mostly kernel, so yes this part is probably shared. But hardware setup is not. and there we are not always first (mandriva find always my printer, openSUSE never, and it's simply a network HP laser, pretty common) for example the openSUSE partitionner is unparallel with parted! jdd Look, I'm not saying I'm right. As I said, it's how I feel, after having distro-hopped like anyone. But if you have specific examples and area's where openSUSE is clearly better, I love to see it, and you can count on me telling others about it spreading the word :D signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [opensuse-marketing] openSUSE vs. Fedora
Le 02/02/2011 10:18, Jos Poortvliet a écrit : Look, I'm not saying I'm right. As I said, it's how I feel, after having distro-hopped like anyone. But if you have specific examples and area's where openSUSE is clearly better, I love to see it, and you can count on me telling others about it spreading the word :D :-) I wrote some on the wiki page you send the URL the other day jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Fwd: flyer
On Tuesday 01 Feb 2011 21:45:32 jdd wrote: Le 01/02/2011 21:15, Carlos Ribeiro a écrit : what's cool inside and around openSUSE why not :-) but we need also a flyer with the inside points (the overall aspect is very nice) jdd I aggree - a flyer that lists more inside the operating system, rather than the project - multimedia apps, office productivity, games, accounting and finance, internet browsing, something to inform potential new users about the wonder of using opensuse as a day to day operating system. There seems to a lot of focus on the project in general, with little reguard to actually promoting the distribution. Is there a specific reason for that? Or is it just different teams working on it? IMHO new folks don't even know what linux is let alone get confused with build service and suse studio. Can't we target new people to bring them on board? -- Kind Regards Stuart Tanner Bolton Linux 24 Vincent Street Bolton BL1 4SA Tel: +44(0)1204 410474 Mob: +44(0)7868 028028 www.bolin.org.uk Distributing openSUSE in the UK Registered Linux User: 529825 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] openSUSE vs. Fedora
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 10:25:48 jdd wrote: Le 02/02/2011 10:18, Jos Poortvliet a écrit : Look, I'm not saying I'm right. As I said, it's how I feel, after having distro-hopped like anyone. But if you have specific examples and area's where openSUSE is clearly better, I love to see it, and you can count on me telling others about it spreading the word :D : :-) I wrote some on the wiki page you send the URL the other day jdd And I copied (part of) that into the flyer for end users :D signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [opensuse-marketing] 11.4 disc timeline?
On Wednesday 12 January 2011 12:02:32 Jos Poortvliet wrote: On Tuesday 11 January 2011 21:09:07 Helen wrote: James, did you get a reply to this query? AFAIK 11.4 is on schedule for March release so you should be able to access media by mid April for sure. (though I haven't closely followed schedule so may be wrong). In the meantime you can access the current build here for DIY media: http://software.opensuse.org/developer/en James, If you could send us your address and how many DVD's you'd like to have, I will ask Jacqueline to ensure you will get the new 11.4 DVD's as soon as they are available. I take it you would like to attend LinuxFest Northwest, I've seen a mail from Jonathan Nadeau asking if openSUSE wants to be there - maybe you can reply to him. Moreover, if you could create a page for linuxfest northwest on http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Ambassadors_events#2011 that would be awesome. You could copy one of the other pages (for example http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:LinuxTag2011 ) as a template for the linuxfest northwest page. Then ask if anyone else is willing/able to go on this and the opensuse-ambassadors mailinglist ;-) I have set up an linuxfest northwest page. Anyone who wants to go, please add your details! http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:LinuxFestNorthwest2011 I guess James will be the first ;-) Cheers, Jos cheers Helen On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 1:28 PM, James Mason bear...@opensuse.org wrote: LinuxFest Northwest, Northwest USA's 'grass roots' Linux event, is scheduled for April 30 May 1st, 2011. Is it anticipated that 11.4 media will be available by then? If not, will it be possible to get ISOs for the disc, to reproduce locally? The combined Live Gnome / Live KDE / Installer disc is a *huge* draw. - James Mason 'bear454' -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Helen postmodernhousew...@gmail.com wrote: I personally have mixed feelings about this - the fact that OBS has openSUSE in its name helps to get the openSUSE name 'out there' as its use becomes more popular, but I agree that there is a strong implication for users that it is only for openSUSE. The other reasons raised by Gumb are also valid ones. OBS is the beating heart of openSUSE, I don't see any problem in having 'openSUSE' on a platform as OBS. What is being propused is called 'repositioning', this is one of the hardest and most risky (if not the most risky at all) operation you can do from a marketing perspective. No one takes lightly to change an established brand name or service without a strong motive. None of the motives seem strong enough, and the work should deployed in a different way, but that not for me to decide. I don't think that changing the name (specially when it has strong roots in the industry already) will solve the problem around attractivity to OBS. What can solve the attractive problem around OBS is to increase exponentially (in a viral way) the number of users of the openSUSE. Lets imagine an hypothetical situation based on 'Facebook' numbers, since I don't have metrics for the userbase of openSUSE and Ubuntu (official channels): Ubuntu: 328275 likes on facebook openSUSE: 2779 likes on facebook If I was a developer to launch an application, I would probably choose launchad/ubuntu because I knew before hand that Ubuntu would enable a higher potential user base for my application. This is simple common sense. In a very simple way we are in the content distribution world, we distribute contents in the form of software. It's a service, it aims for people, that's the very own minimum denominator here. So we should actually look into a way of becoming more attractive to users and investors, and a strategy for that can be delievering a higher number of contents. For example... Ubuntu plays this well... from a simple package, they create like 7/8 sub-packages, then they have over 32K packages as they advertise (look at a screenshot of their Software Center and how they explore this concept to brutalize users perception). Users who have done some packaging or developed something, they know this is a fairy tale and a 'marketing move', but for those without tech skills, they might believe it's the best choice due to the ammount of packages available, eventhough the largest part of them are futile for end users... And when they eventually might realize it, they have already a loyalty bond with Ubuntu and won't swap. I believe on this at least... without a strong user base, we might not become attractive enough for developers to use OBS to distribute their software, because our user base isn't large enough. Maybe what developers love is probably that everyone picks their software and use it? Maybe that's the missing link. So a change to just 'open' could be positive in many ways. I'm still relatively new to the project myself, so I don't know the whole story - I imagine this was probably discussed at length when the Build Service first became an entity. OBS is the 'nursery' of openSUSE Linux distribution. On a related note, I was under the impression that Bretzn was being renamed to 'AppInstaller' though perhaps I've got the wrong end of the stick as the saying goes. Good that 'Bretzn' is being renamed, because from a pure marketing perspective, it's not the best of choices, since the internationalizion of the word and the phonetics make a natural barrier to use it in some languages. How can people speak about something if they can't pronounce the word? OBS doesn't suffer from this symptom. Because we are going to be doing a lot of work in the coming months to promote both the OBS and Bretzn, it might be a good idea to clarify naming right away, and also perhaps talk about branding and logos for both of these projects. Is there anything in progress towards developing artwork? Again, apologies if this is old territory being covered again! cheers, Helen On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:44 AM, gumb g...@linuxmail.org wrote: Hi. I am forwarding a proposal for the renaming of the openSUSE Build Service, in order to try and increase its adoption and recognition. Indeed, it seems like certain moves may already have been made in this direction but I'm not too clear on that (see below). This is a follow-up to a suggestion by Jos Poortvliet which he originally made mention of in a recent blog post, here: http://nowwhatthe.blogspot.com/2011/01/lca-on-friday.html Whilst I am merely an end-user, he has suggested in the spirit of openness that I contact the project via this list to further the discussion. Essentially, such a renaming could be as 'simple' as calling it the 'Open Build Service', and I note that the Meego project, for example, already seems to use this on some of its webpages, but the main OBS introduction
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
Le 02/02/2011 19:50, Greg Freemyer a écrit : Are you suggesting openSUSE start advertizing 115,652 packages, in 28,949 repositories on the openSUSE Build Service! YESSS having *one* line in the opensuse.org screen with today xxx packages in OBS would be really great!! OBS could also be Opensource Build Service :-)) but it would be great if say ubuntu setup an OBS instance and start helping maintaining the product! jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 19:50:24 Greg Freemyer wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Nelson Marques nmo.marq...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Helen postmodernhousew...@gmail.com wrote: I personally have mixed feelings about this - the fact that OBS has openSUSE in its name helps to get the openSUSE name 'out there' as its use becomes more popular, but I agree that there is a strong implication for users that it is only for openSUSE. The other reasons raised by Gumb are also valid ones. OBS is the beating heart of openSUSE, I don't see any problem in having 'openSUSE' on a platform as OBS. Agreed I personally don't see it as a big issue directly - the only issue with it is that people clearly assume the openSUSE Build Service is there to Build openSUSE Software. The discussions and chats I've had at several conferences including the latest LCA clearly brought that forward and I think those of you who've been at conferences have heard the same sentiments. Now the scope of the Build Service is much wider than that and this misconception is hurting at least some of our uptake. The marketing team is fighting this perception all the time. The brand is currently usually abbreviated as OBS - and known (in writing) like that. MeeGo actually calls it 'open build service' already, as do many other people. I wouldn't argue yet that 'open build service' is already the de-facto name, but it's going in that direction. So there is a reason to rename it: do something about a misconception which is hurting uptake. Reasons not to do it: 1 we diminish the link between openSUSE and OBS 2 we loose some brand value due to the repositioning On 1, I don't see this as a real issue as OBS is and will be principally developed by openSUSE - and as I wrote before, the culture of 'credit where credit is due' in FOSS protects us in this regard as well. 2 is really minimal - OBS is the name most known and won't change; moreover many people already call it open build service (or even just 'the build service' which is actually really good for us I would say - saying OBS is the de-facto standard build service). Hence I believe the reason to do it eclipses the reasons not to do it. On the facebook thing, I doubt our number likes on facebook for openSUSE have much if anything to do with uptake of OBS. Not to say we shouldn't try to increase that number... What is being propused is called 'repositioning', this is one of the hardest and most risky (if not the most risky at all) operation you can do from a marketing perspective. No one takes lightly to change an established brand name or service without a strong motive. None of the motives seem strong enough, and the work should deployed in a different way, but that not for me to decide. I don't think that changing the name (specially when it has strong roots in the industry already) will solve the problem around attractivity to OBS. What can solve the attractive problem around OBS is to increase exponentially (in a viral way) the number of users of the openSUSE. Lets imagine an hypothetical situation based on 'Facebook' numbers, since I don't have metrics for the userbase of openSUSE and Ubuntu (official channels): Per https://build.opensuse.org/ == The openSUSE Build Service hosts 17,298 projects, with 115,652 packages, in 28,949 repositories and is used by 26,656 confirmed users. == I find those pretty impressive numbers. I hope the name stays where it is with that proven level of success. (Remember, that's effectively 26,656 developers / contributors, because OBS is not used by typical end users.) One thing that is not shown and may not be known is the number of private instances of the OBS are running out there. Maybe the number of appliance downloads per release could be added to the above stats. Ubuntu: 328275 likes on facebook openSUSE: 2779 likes on facebook If I was a developer to launch an application, I would probably choose launchad/ubuntu because I knew before hand that Ubuntu would enable a higher potential user base for my application. This is simple common sense. OBS can build/publish for ubuntu. I suspect that is why some want to change the name. In a very simple way we are in the content distribution world, we distribute contents in the form of software. It's a service, it aims for people, that's the very own minimum denominator here. So we should actually look into a way of becoming more attractive to users and investors, and a strategy for that can be delievering a higher number of contents. In a real sense, OBS is already very successful and getting more so. For example... Ubuntu plays this well... from a simple package, they create like 7/8 sub-packages, then they have over 32K packages as they advertise (look at a screenshot of their Software Center and how they explore this concept to
[opensuse-marketing] Upgrade Label for Promo DVDs
A couple of weeks ago, I made plans to personally order some stickers to attach to our Promo DVDs at the upcoming SCALE conference in Los Angeles. The event is 2 weeks prior to the release of 11.4. The focus of the sticker was clearly to provide an upgrade path for receivers of the promo DVD at SCALE. As I mentioned it to Manu, he offered to join in with me and design the label, which I gladly accepted his offer because I like seeing people jump in to help. We discussed it openly in the IRC channel and then other people saw and joined in. Unfortunately, for me, the discussion quickly changed to a very different focus and I'm having a bit of a difficult time justifying paying for the sticker in its present design, which is co-designed by Manu and Carlos. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a very beautiful design, but it has a serious redundancy issue. In the sticker, I had wanted to point to http://en.opensuse.org//SDB:System_upgrade. Sure its an ugly URL but at least it got the users to the right place. Howeever, the discussion shifted to changing the URL to www.opensuse.org. My problem with this is that it is redundant because that URL is already on the DVD cover itself, plus it is on many other materials we will give out. And the focus changed also from experienced users to n00b users, which is not our primary audience. So, I would really like to rediscuss this label before I send it to the printers ASAP. I am honestly not comfortable paying for stickers that say what is already said elsewhere. Any thoughts, folks? Here's the sticker design by Carlos and Manu: http://en.opensuse.org/File:Card17CR.png Thanks, Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] openSUSE vs. Fedora
Am 02.02.2011 08:36, schrieb jdd: hardware support is mostly kernel, so yes this part is probably shared. But hardware setup is not. and there we are not always first (mandriva find always my printer, openSUSE never, and it's simply a network HP laser, pretty common) for example the openSUSE partitionner is unparallel with parted! This is the point. For me, openSUSE is the best distro we have. But their are a lot of other distros in the world, and I think Fedora is our biggest problem (Not problem, like we have to do it away, problem like we have to care, that openSUSE can do it better as Fedora.) So, I´m not just out to compare the distros (btw, I don´t like the Fedora-distro, but I like the project.). It´s better to look into the project and maybe see, what´s different, what can we do better, to make openSUSE sexy for Fedora-users. (No, I´m not out to steal users from Fedora. I´m out to make openSUSE better and maybe get some Fedora-users who says: openSUSE? We like!) So, SUSE Studio (yes, it´s part of SUSE, not openSUSE, but we all use it, right?) and OBS are important too for comparing the distros. If we just compare the distros, we´re gonna waste our time, really. The user decides what he or she use. As Jean-Daniel figured out right, the Kernel is kinda the same. A big-patched Kernel can make some things really difficult and just leaves the user sad and angry alone. I mind Fedora as a nice distro. To install it. For using, I wanna have my openSUSE 11.3 back, believe me. I can´t understand how Linus Torvalds can use the distro. But this is _not_ Fedora-bashing here. I just wanted to say my personal opinion. I´ll set up the text tomorrow, after I was in hospital to checking my knee. Because I´m ill and injured, I´m the whole day at home and can think about the text and some other things. Maybe you have ideas, and note that it not just openSUSE vs. Fedora. if you found another distro to compare, just feel free to do it! good luck, thanks for reading and contribute, and a nice evening! kdl -- Kim Leyendecker (kimleyendec...@hotmail.de) openSUSE Ambassador powered by openSUSE 11.3 KDE Kernel-desktop 2.6.34-12 using Tumbleweed This mail was composed under Linux Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 14:46 +1100, Helen wrote: On a related note, I was under the impression that Bretzn was being renamed to 'AppInstaller' though perhaps I've got the wrong end of the stick as the saying goes. Maybe we should come up with something that conforms with our open identity? Something like openApp or openInstaller or something? I dunno, installer sounds a bit intimidating to some people, but open-something might be the way to go. Just thinking out loud here. Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: snip That reads as if you assume OBS is not successful. I feel the opposite. Indeed. It is popular but could be more so ;-) BTW we also need to do more in the area of USING those huge numbers. For marketing but also community building purposes. How could we get the tens of thousands who use OBS to contribute to openSUSE? After all, they're VERY close to openSUSE already - it's just pushing a few buttons to submit their packages to factory or request merges with existing packages to fix bugs. I don't think it is necessarily that simple. First, I _assume_ lots of those 100+K packages are the same package just in lots of repos. For instance each of the main packages is probably in at least a devel package, factory, 11.3, 11.2, 11.1 discontinued. Admittedly, each of those may be at a different version level/patch level. But 100+K packages is a highly misleading number I suspect. And then for lots of smaller packages, I don't think they are really built for distro use. First, many don't have man pages for executables, which I think is required in the push to factory. Another example is open2300. I packaged it because I use it, but it generates a dozen or so executables. All *2300 (open2300, log2300, etc.). I can't envision putting that in factory that way. The names really need to be changed to 2300* (2300open, 2300log, etc), but the upstream project is basically dead, so I don't see it happening there. I may get it into the distro eventually, but for now I'm happy with it in a devel project. So OBS for open2300 is giving me exactly what I want. A way to publish a little known/used app without the more formal requirements appropriate to a full distro release. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 02 February 2011 19:50:24 Greg Freemyer wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Nelson Marques nmo.marq...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Helen postmodernhousew...@gmail.com wrote: I personally have mixed feelings about this - the fact that OBS has openSUSE in its name helps to get the openSUSE name 'out there' as its use becomes more popular, but I agree that there is a strong implication for users that it is only for openSUSE. The other reasons raised by Gumb are also valid ones. OBS is the beating heart of openSUSE, I don't see any problem in having 'openSUSE' on a platform as OBS. Agreed I personally don't see it as a big issue directly - the only issue with it is that people clearly assume the openSUSE Build Service is there to Build openSUSE Software. If people see it that way, maybe it's marketing failure? As you state and I quote: «hat people clearly assume the openSUSE Build Service is there to Buil openSUSE Software.» This only points failure on marketing practices, marketing efforts are failing in passing the message, but in reality, it's not actually far from the reality. OBS plays it's role, it enables all the contents distributed in openSUSE Linux distribution. Maybe before we can be attractive to developers we have to be attractive to end users, so that they ditch their distribution repositories and use ours (which isn't supported by any distribution). So for you to succeded this is probably one of the issues that needs to be worked out first... Make OBS a repository of reference to other distributions. The discussions and chats I've had at several conferences including the latest LCA clearly brought that forward and I think those of you who've been at conferences have heard the same sentiments. Now the scope of the Build Service is much wider than that and this misconception is hurting at least some of our uptake. The marketing team is fighting this perception all the time. From a talk I had with someone I met on OSC, I actually asked him why they didn't used devel snapshots through OBS. The answer I got was... every distribution has packagers, they do that for me, why would I want to waste time on that? I don't package, I do other more important things. The brand is currently usually abbreviated as OBS - and known (in writing) like that. MeeGo actually calls it 'open build service' already, as do many other people. I wouldn't argue yet that 'open build service' is already the de-facto name, but it's going in that direction. Once more, this could indicate severe marketing strategy failure. Careful with such statements. So there is a reason to rename it: do something about a misconception which is hurting uptake. The reason to rebrand and reposition a well established service is based on an hypothetical marketing failure? Maybe it's time for you to drop Darwinism and maybe be more mindful of Smith/Drucker/Kotler, as they will provide an answer for your problems. Reasons not to do it: 1 we diminish the link between openSUSE and OBS 2 we loose some brand value due to the repositioning 1 2 - will only happen if Marketing doesn't take action to support the whole repositioning (this is where the fat budgets play there role). On 1, I don't see this as a real issue as OBS is and will be principally developed by openSUSE - and as I wrote before, the culture of 'credit where credit is due' in FOSS protects us in this regard as well. Unless you want to make of OBS a fully commercial product, that makes no sense. 2 is really minimal - OBS is the name most known and won't change; moreover many people already call it open build service (or even just 'the build service' which is actually really good for us I would say - saying OBS is the de-facto standard build service). Interesting... A build service builds something, that's how someone probably will face it. As I face it, it's an outstanding distribution platform, to feed or distribute contents. There is a difference, and if you think closely, it might be more benefic for OBS to be promoted as a distribution platform, at least it sounds far more appealing to me, and the fact is has a HUGE 'OPENSUSE' in it's name can only benefit openSUSE as a Linux distribution. Hence I believe the reason to do it eclipses the reasons not to do it. Just trying to prevent a situation like the one portraited partially on [1]. If you look carefully, that entry is quite a powerful example. That entry suggests that picking KDE as the default Desktop actually didn't brought the expected user base to openSUSE. And changing back to GNOME will only hurt us more, because you are endangering hurting users and paint us like if we don't know what we're doing. I hope OBS will not be the subject of such changes every once in a while. It kills consumer trust, and we want to build relations with users based
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 21:27:35 Greg Freemyer wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: snip That reads as if you assume OBS is not successful. I feel the opposite. Indeed. It is popular but could be more so ;-) BTW we also need to do more in the area of USING those huge numbers. For marketing but also community building purposes. How could we get the tens of thousands who use OBS to contribute to openSUSE? After all, they're VERY close to openSUSE already - it's just pushing a few buttons to submit their packages to factory or request merges with existing packages to fix bugs. I don't think it is necessarily that simple. First, I _assume_ lots of those 100+K packages are the same package just in lots of repos. For instance each of the main packages is probably in at least a devel package, factory, 11.3, 11.2, 11.1 discontinued. Admittedly, each of those may be at a different version level/patch level. But 100+K packages is a highly misleading number I suspect. And then for lots of smaller packages, I don't think they are really built for distro use. First, many don't have man pages for executables, which I think is required in the push to factory. Another example is open2300. I packaged it because I use it, but it generates a dozen or so executables. All *2300 (open2300, log2300, etc.). I can't envision putting that in factory that way. The names really need to be changed to 2300* (2300open, 2300log, etc), but the upstream project is basically dead, so I don't see it happening there. I may get it into the distro eventually, but for now I'm happy with it in a devel project. So OBS for open2300 is giving me exactly what I want. A way to publish a little known/used app without the more formal requirements appropriate to a full distro release. Yeah, this scenario is what OBS really supports very well. But I think we should try and see how we can lower the barrier and/or motivate people to go that extra step towards real distro support... And/or make installation of software from OBS really, really easy on openSUSE. That means not letting ppl search for it on the website (where they have to choose 'look in home projects' by hand before they actually see everything) but having it in YaST or the application installer being developed or something like that... Greg signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 21:10:55 Bryen M. Yunashko wrote: snip This is a proposal that actually has been brought up before in some marketing discussions. I strongly believe we need to change the name openSUSE Build Service to Open Build Service because from a marketing perspective it is a lot easier to sell OBS. OBS is a tool that is not limited to openSUSE and thus it should not have a name that limits public perception in that way. Open Build Service (powered by the openSUSE Project) has a better chance at larger adoption. Those of us who discussed it decided to hold off a few months at the time because we didn't want to rock the boat and there were other things happening. But now I believe the momentum is right for the name change. We're really starting to build up on the fact that openSUSE is not a distribution but a Project, and that you can participate and benefit from the Project without even using the distro. This is what we're really here for, to create a community that can collaborate across borders and provide services that do not limit you to the use of the distribution itself. Yup! At the conference I got several people interested in OBS by stating that very clearly: I don't care if you use Fedora or Ubuntu, OBS is interesting for you because it builds packages for all distro's! oh, really, does it? It's not just for openSUSE? No, OBS is cross-distribution. MeeGo uses it, so does VLC to build packages for all distro's Having OBS being Open Build Service makes this argument easier... I actually (as I said) started saying that after having the discussion a few times and indeed it works. Whoever is not convinced of that: stand at a booth for a day at FOSDEM or SCALE and explain OBS to people. Try it with open build service and openSUSE build service and see the difference... I am all for changing it to Open Build Service, but let's not make that a decision by the marketing team but rather state the case to the buildservice team why this is essential for us to be able to further push for adoption of the service. Let them decide it. Bryen M Yunashko openSUSE Marketing Team signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 22:20:00 Nelson Marques wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: I personally don't see it as a big issue directly - the only issue with it is that people clearly assume the openSUSE Build Service is there to Build openSUSE Software. If people see it that way, maybe it's marketing failure? As you state and I quote: «hat people clearly assume the openSUSE Build Service is there to Buil openSUSE Software.» This only points failure on marketing practices, marketing efforts are failing in passing the message, but in reality, it's not actually far from the reality. OBS plays it's role, it enables all the contents distributed in openSUSE Linux distribution. Yes, it is failing marketing: choosing a wrong name, duh. openSUSE Build Service as a name quite strongly suggests that it's for openSUSE... And that is the problem. Surely OBS does that, but it does more - and the name doesn't support that. It IS a marketing failure. Interestingly enough, at LCA I attended a talk by a Red Hat developer about KOJI. It's Red Hat's/Fedora's build service. It's massively worse than OBS - you CAN build packages for other distro's but it's quite hard. The whole thing is much harder to use, can't cross-compile for other platforms and has to run on your own machine. Still, many people were interested in it. And part of that is because the name doesn't signal any distro-specificity. Maybe before we can be attractive to developers we have to be attractive to end users, so that they ditch their distribution repositories and use ours (which isn't supported by any distribution). So for you to succeded this is probably one of the issues that needs to be worked out first... Make OBS a repository of reference to other distributions. The discussions and chats I've had at several conferences including the latest LCA clearly brought that forward and I think those of you who've been at conferences have heard the same sentiments. Now the scope of the Build Service is much wider than that and this misconception is hurting at least some of our uptake. The marketing team is fighting this perception all the time. From a talk I had with someone I met on OSC, I actually asked him why they didn't used devel snapshots through OBS. The answer I got was... every distribution has packagers, they do that for me, why would I want to waste time on that? I don't package, I do other more important things. The brand is currently usually abbreviated as OBS - and known (in writing) like that. MeeGo actually calls it 'open build service' already, as do many other people. I wouldn't argue yet that 'open build service' is already the de-facto name, but it's going in that direction. Once more, this could indicate severe marketing strategy failure. Careful with such statements. So there is a reason to rename it: do something about a misconception which is hurting uptake. The reason to rebrand and reposition a well established service is based on an hypothetical marketing failure? Maybe it's time for you to drop Darwinism and maybe be more mindful of Smith/Drucker/Kotler, as they will provide an answer for your problems. Reasons not to do it: 1 we diminish the link between openSUSE and OBS 2 we loose some brand value due to the repositioning 1 2 - will only happen if Marketing doesn't take action to support the whole repositioning (this is where the fat budgets play there role). On 1, I don't see this as a real issue as OBS is and will be principally developed by openSUSE - and as I wrote before, the culture of 'credit where credit is due' in FOSS protects us in this regard as well. Unless you want to make of OBS a fully commercial product, that makes no sense. 2 is really minimal - OBS is the name most known and won't change; moreover many people already call it open build service (or even just 'the build service' which is actually really good for us I would say - saying OBS is the de-facto standard build service). Interesting... A build service builds something, that's how someone probably will face it. As I face it, it's an outstanding distribution platform, to feed or distribute contents. There is a difference, and if you think closely, it might be more benefic for OBS to be promoted as a distribution platform, at least it sounds far more appealing to me, and the fact is has a HUGE 'OPENSUSE' in it's name can only benefit openSUSE as a Linux distribution. Hence I believe the reason to do it eclipses the reasons not to do it. Just trying to prevent a situation like the one portraited partially on [1]. If you look carefully, that entry is quite a powerful example. That entry suggests that picking KDE as the default Desktop actually didn't brought the expected user base to openSUSE. And changing back to GNOME will only hurt us more, because you are
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 22:20:00 Nelson Marques wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: snip Maybe before we can be attractive to developers we have to be attractive to end users, so that they ditch their distribution repositories and use ours (which isn't supported by any distribution). So for you to succeded this is probably one of the issues that needs to be worked out first... Make OBS a repository of reference to other distributions. There are such repositories having packages for other distro's, right? Besides, I'm not trying to get users to ditch their distro's repositories and use OBS - that won't work as OBS doesn't have all of their distro. But I want to replace PPA's and specific Fedora repositories with OBS repositories - so we need to get DEVELOPERS and ppl who want to package specific packages for other distro's to use OBS. Then they spread the packages through that. In case of developers, the only thing we win is that they will at least create openSUSE packages so we get more software. In case of 'casual' packagers who for example decide to package F-Spot for a few distro's because they like F-Spot, we have another opportunity: maybe we can convince them to contribute more packages. Then maybe convince them to start contributing those to factory and bang, we have a new contributor. So making it attractive to end users doesn't really help OBS much. The discussions and chats I've had at several conferences including the latest LCA clearly brought that forward and I think those of you who've been at conferences have heard the same sentiments. Now the scope of the Build Service is much wider than that and this misconception is hurting at least some of our uptake. The marketing team is fighting this perception all the time. From a talk I had with someone I met on OSC, I actually asked him why they didn't used devel snapshots through OBS. The answer I got was... every distribution has packagers, they do that for me, why would I want to waste time on that? I don't package, I do other more important things. True, for some that is true. Especially if you're KDE or GNOME. Less so if you have a small, lesser-known application - look at gtk-apps.org or kde-apps.org, those apps have usually only a few packages - those for the distro of the developer and a few contributed packages by others. The developer of such an app would surely be interested in OBS so we have to reach them. And those 'others' who submitted a package are a big pool of potential contributors for openSUSE so we need to talk to them even more! And they come for Open Build Service, not openSUSE Build Service! The brand is currently usually abbreviated as OBS - and known (in writing) like that. MeeGo actually calls it 'open build service' already, as do many other people. I wouldn't argue yet that 'open build service' is already the de-facto name, but it's going in that direction. Once more, this could indicate severe marketing strategy failure. Careful with such statements. Sure, but the name is wrong hence it goes wrong. So there is a reason to rename it: do something about a misconception which is hurting uptake. The reason to rebrand and reposition a well established service is based on an hypothetical marketing failure? No, the failure is the name. We should fix that. Maybe it's time for you to drop Darwinism and maybe be more mindful of Smith/Drucker/Kotler, as they will provide an answer for your problems. Reasons not to do it: 1 we diminish the link between openSUSE and OBS 2 we loose some brand value due to the repositioning 1 2 - will only happen if Marketing doesn't take action to support the whole repositioning (this is where the fat budgets play there role). As Open Build Service is already used and much easier to promote, I would actually argue that KEEPING the name openSUSE build service is more 'expensive' in terms of effort to promote it. On 1, I don't see this as a real issue as OBS is and will be principally developed by openSUSE - and as I wrote before, the culture of 'credit where credit is due' in FOSS protects us in this regard as well. Unless you want to make of OBS a fully commercial product, that makes no sense. 2 is really minimal - OBS is the name most known and won't change; moreover many people already call it open build service (or even just 'the build service' which is actually really good for us I would say - saying OBS is the de-facto standard build service). Interesting... A build service builds something, that's how someone probably will face it. As I face it, it's an outstanding distribution platform, to feed or distribute contents. There is a difference, and if you think closely, it might be more benefic for OBS to be promoted as a distribution platform, at least it sounds far more appealing to me, and the fact is has a HUGE
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On 02.02.2011, at 22:22, Jos Poortvliet wrote: On Wednesday 02 February 2011 21:21:59 Bryen M. Yunashko wrote: On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 14:46 +1100, Helen wrote: On a related note, I was under the impression that Bretzn was being renamed to 'AppInstaller' though perhaps I've got the wrong end of the stick as the saying goes. Maybe we should come up with something that conforms with our open identity? Something like openApp or openInstaller or something? I dunno, installer sounds a bit intimidating to some people, but open-something might be the way to go. Well, the name of the application for installation is openSUSE Application Installer, see: http://news.opensuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/appstore_details.png The product you might call 'bretzn' is the plugin for IDE's which ties the Build Service(s) to application store(s), websites and repositories. And the name of the whole project developing it is Bretzn. But it's still vague because - is Bretzn a KDE project? or is it an openSUSE project? The ppl who started it are KDE and openSUSE people. But they want it to be cross- desktop and cross-distribution as well as based on open standards (eg libattica, OCS). So the bretzn branding is surely unclear in general. I've copied in Karlitschek who started this whole thing, and vuntz who's been busy on the cross-distro side (and might get involved with the GNOME application installer on openSUSE). I've recently asked Frank to move the Bretzn mailinglist to freedesktop.org - a cross-desktop, cross-distro project with a mailinglist named kde- bre...@kde.org doesn't make much sense. Still, unless people from other distros and desktops actually get involved, it's not much of a cross-project. I think we should get the people who are working on this stuff for KDE, GNOME and all distro's together on that one new mailinglist... Meanwhile, we do indeed need to think about the name. How big is the scope of Bretzn, and IF we decide it's fully cross desktop/distro, is Bretzn the right name? It has indeed disadvantages, being hard to spell and pronounce for non- Germans... Well. Project Bretzn is the codename for the idea to simplify the process of bringing applications from the developers to the enduser. Part of it is the plugin for IDEs and another part is the AppStore. But the word Bretzn was always considered a joke. So we shouldn´t put the term Bretzn into the actual user interface. It´s just an internal codeword. But it´s of course possible to mention Bretzn if someone want´s to describe the idea and the initiative. But Bretzn should never appear in the openSUSE menu. ;-) Cheers Frank Just thinking out loud here. Bryen -- Frank Karlitschek karlitsc...@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:20 AM, Nelson Marques nmo.marq...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 02 February 2011 19:50:24 Greg Freemyer wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Nelson Marques nmo.marq...@gmail.com wrote: If people see it that way, maybe it's marketing failure? As you state and I quote: «hat people clearly assume the openSUSE Build Service is there to Buil openSUSE Software.» This only points failure on marketing practices, marketing efforts are failing in passing the message, but in reality, it's not actually far from the reality. OBS plays it's role, it enables all the contents distributed in openSUSE Linux distribution. Once more, this could indicate severe marketing strategy failure. Careful with such statements. The reason to rebrand and reposition a well established service is based on an hypothetical marketing failure? If it's a case of stringent adherence to Marketing principles and theory, then perhaps these principles need to be attended to at a much earlier stage of product development. Because at this stage Marketing is being presented with a fully fledged, named and branded product which we are then, like an advertising company, asked to promote, flaws and all. But really Marketing should be involved at all stages of product development to ensure that we can successfully market the product. At what point did the Marketing team and OBS representatives have a round table and decide on the optimal branding for the build service? Is there an IRC log on that? If any rebranding is EVER going to be done, it needs to be done now, before things go any further, and if not, then we need a clear strategy for ensuring its broader application is more easily promoted (eg, a logo which emphasises BUILD SERVICE). Regarding the suggestion that it's up to the OBS people to decide: they should certainly have some solid input, but as an integral part of the openSUSE project, it is not solely up to them. Who do we have on the team who has qualifications and experience in marketing and advertising? I assume from your comments that you have some formal experience in this area, Nelson? Who else? best, Helen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
At woensdag 02 februari 2011 22:20:00 wrote Nelson Marques: I personally don't see it as a big issue directly - the only issue with it is that people clearly assume the openSUSE Build Service is there to Build openSUSE Software. If people see it that way, maybe it's marketing failure? As you state and I quote: «hat people clearly assume the openSUSE Build Service is there to Build openSUSE Software.» I'm sorry to say, but openSUSE is from Novell which is associated with a bad deal with MS. That alone will, I think, be a big barrier to use, download and install openSUSE Build Service. Why would someone using debian, fedora, etc get their packages from download.opensuse.org/repositories/.??? Would an openSUSE user expect to get his or her software from download.fedorea.org/packages/etc?? or packages.debian.org. I don't think so. It would be much more attractive to get packages from a distribution agnostic site e.g. from buildservice.org/repositories or packages.org/repositories (the former btw redirects already to https://build.opensuse.org/) -- Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
Am Mittwoch, 2. Februar 2011, 22:31:18 schrieb Jos Poortvliet: On Wednesday 02 February 2011 22:20:00 Nelson Marques wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: I personally don't see it as a big issue directly - the only issue with it is that people clearly assume the openSUSE Build Service is there to Build openSUSE Software. If people see it that way, maybe it's marketing failure? As you state and I quote: «hat people clearly assume the openSUSE Build Service is there to Buil openSUSE Software.» This only points failure on marketing practices, marketing efforts are failing in passing the message, but in reality, it's not actually far from the reality. OBS plays it's role, it enables all the contents distributed in openSUSE Linux distribution. Yes, it is failing marketing: choosing a wrong name, duh. openSUSE Build Service as a name quite strongly suggests that it's for openSUSE... And that is the problem. Surely OBS does that, but it does more - and the name doesn't support that. It IS a marketing failure. Interestingly enough, at LCA I attended a talk by a Red Hat developer about KOJI. It's Red Hat's/Fedora's build service. It's massively worse than OBS - you CAN build packages for other distro's but it's quite hard. The whole thing is much harder to use, can't cross-compile for other platforms and has to run on your own machine. Still, many people were interested in it. And part of that is because the name doesn't signal any distro-specificity. Just my 2cent on this: * I think when using the just the term OBS more strictly and avoiding the full name, the problem would reduce a lot. * A rename should always consider the available DNS domains ;) * OBS as term itself is actually less import for the end users. They just see the result. A reason why the PPA term from ubuntu is so intrusive. IMHO we need to finished this feature ASAP: https://features.opensuse.org/310109 and we need to find a cool and marketing-able name for (similar to 1-click- install). This would reach way more people (in best case also some non openSUSE users) and we have the chance in the second step to educate them also better about OBS. We will grow afterwards. This feature just waits for a web developer since a longer time creating a good proposal. The pure coding part will be realtive minimal, I think. Have fun on FOSDEM adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adr...@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 02 February 2011 21:10:55 Bryen M. Yunashko wrote: snip This is a proposal that actually has been brought up before in some marketing discussions. I strongly believe we need to change the name openSUSE Build Service to Open Build Service because from a marketing perspective it is a lot easier to sell OBS. OBS is a tool that is not limited to openSUSE and thus it should not have a name that limits public perception in that way. Open Build Service (powered by the openSUSE Project) has a better chance at larger adoption. Those of us who discussed it decided to hold off a few months at the time because we didn't want to rock the boat and there were other things happening. But now I believe the momentum is right for the name change. We're really starting to build up on the fact that openSUSE is not a distribution but a Project, and that you can participate and benefit from the Project without even using the distro. This is what we're really here for, to create a community that can collaborate across borders and provide services that do not limit you to the use of the distribution itself. Yup! At the conference I got several people interested in OBS by stating that very clearly: I don't care if you use Fedora or Ubuntu, OBS is interesting for you because it builds packages for all distro's! oh, really, does it? It's not just for openSUSE? No, OBS is cross-distribution. MeeGo uses it, so does VLC to build packages for all distro's == a small technical glitch If you really want OBS to attract cross platform developers of small packages, you need to allow a package to have more control of its build targets. I'll use my trivial open2300 package as an example again. In my home project, I control the repos, so I can build for any of the supported targets. But I submitted it to the Hardware devel project a couple months ago. That project only builds for openSUSE and SLE. As far as I know, there is nothing I can do about that. So non-openSUSE users that might come looking for it at OBS have to search home directories if they want to find it. I was actually pretty disappointed to realize that, and it made OBS feel much less open to me. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
[opensuse-marketing] strange feeling
did somebody do a wish that get fullfilled? did Santa Claus or St Niclos drop something in our fireplace? I get the feeling openSUSE in becoming a hive, maturing as if spring is coming early? I see a lot of things growing like never did!! great. thanks all!! jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] strange feeling
On Wednesday 02 Feb 2011 22:04:41 jdd wrote: did somebody do a wish that get fullfilled? did Santa Claus or St Niclos drop something in our fireplace? I get the feeling openSUSE in becoming a hive, maturing as if spring is coming early? I see a lot of things growing like never did!! great. thanks all!! jdd Whats top of your christmas list then? Don;t know what it is but for some reason today my laptop can't keep up with me typing and seriously its a dual-core laptop running 64bit edition with 4gb of ram - so I seriously need to investigate what is causing the slow down its annoying! I haven't seen it this slow since I was using Citrix at work years ago! -- Kind Regards Stuart Tanner Bolton Linux 24 Vincent Street Bolton BL1 4SA Tel: +44(0)1204 410474 Mob: +44(0)7868 028028 www.bolin.org.uk Distributing openSUSE in the UK Registered Linux User: 529825 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Upgrade Label for Promo DVDs
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 21:17:58 Bryen M. Yunashko wrote: A couple of weeks ago, I made plans to personally order some stickers to attach to our Promo DVDs at the upcoming SCALE conference in Los Angeles. The event is 2 weeks prior to the release of 11.4. The focus of the sticker was clearly to provide an upgrade path for receivers of the promo DVD at SCALE. As I mentioned it to Manu, he offered to join in with me and design the label, which I gladly accepted his offer because I like seeing people jump in to help. We discussed it openly in the IRC channel and then other people saw and joined in. Unfortunately, for me, the discussion quickly changed to a very different focus and I'm having a bit of a difficult time justifying paying for the sticker in its present design, which is co-designed by Manu and Carlos. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a very beautiful design, but it has a serious redundancy issue. In the sticker, I had wanted to point to http://en.opensuse.org//SDB:System_upgrade. Sure its an ugly URL but at least it got the users to the right place. Howeever, the discussion shifted to changing the URL to www.opensuse.org. My problem with this is that it is redundant because that URL is already on the DVD cover itself, plus it is on many other materials we will give out. And the focus changed also from experienced users to n00b users, which is not our primary audience. So, I would really like to rediscuss this label before I send it to the printers ASAP. I am honestly not comfortable paying for stickers that say what is already said elsewhere. Any thoughts, folks? Here's the sticker design by Carlos and Manu: http://en.opensuse.org/File:Card17CR.png I like the sticker but wonder where this was discussed, IRC I guess? Ok, my opinion for this would be simply - if this was meant to lead people to a site where they can upgrade from 11.3 to 11.4 (and I understand the need for that as SCALE is shortly before the 11.4 release so this is actually a brilliant idea) then the right link should be on there... Without it and having ppl go to opensuse.org to upgrade, well, they'll probably download a new DVD which is really a huge waste of our 11.3 one ;-) Thanks, Bryen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Upgrade Label for Promo DVDs
On 2/2/2011 at 02:56 PM, in message 201102022256.43382.jospoortvl...@gmail.com, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 02 February 2011 21:17:58 Bryen M. Yunashko wrote: A couple of weeks ago, I made plans to personally order some stickers to attach to our Promo DVDs at the upcoming SCALE conference in Los Angeles. The event is 2 weeks prior to the release of 11.4. The focus of the sticker was clearly to provide an upgrade path for receivers of the promo DVD at SCALE. As I mentioned it to Manu, he offered to join in with me and design the label, which I gladly accepted his offer because I like seeing people jump in to help. We discussed it openly in the IRC channel and then other people saw and joined in. Unfortunately, for me, the discussion quickly changed to a very different focus and I'm having a bit of a difficult time justifying paying for the sticker in its present design, which is co-designed by Manu and Carlos. I really like the design. Very clean. Good job guys! Don't get me wrong, I think it is a very beautiful design, but it has a serious redundancy issue. In the sticker, I had wanted to point to http://en.opensuse.org//SDB:System_upgrade. Sure its an ugly URL but at least it got the users to the right place. Howeever, the discussion shifted to changing the URL to www.opensuse.org. My problem with this is that it is redundant because that URL is already on the DVD cover itself, plus it is on many other materials we will give out. And the focus changed also from experienced users to n00b users, which is not our primary audience. So, I would really like to rediscuss this label before I send it to the printers ASAP. I am honestly not comfortable paying for stickers that say what is already said elsewhere. Any thoughts, folks? Here's the sticker design by Carlos and Manu: http://en.opensuse.org/File:Card17CR.png I like the sticker but wonder where this was discussed, IRC I guess? Ok, my opinion for this would be simply - if this was meant to lead people to a site where they can upgrade from 11.3 to 11.4 (and I understand the need for that as SCALE is shortly before the 11.4 release so this is actually a brilliant idea) then the right link should be on there... Without it and having ppl go to opensuse.org to upgrade, well, they'll probably download a new DVD which is really a huge waste of our 11.3 one ;-) I agree that the URL pointing to upgrade is long and ugly, but it is readable and easily keyed into a browser. +1 due to the functional purpose of the upgrade URL. Thanks, Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Upgrade Label for Promo DVDs
On Wednesday 02 Feb 2011 23:34:00 Alan Clark wrote: On 2/2/2011 at 02:56 PM, in message 201102022256.43382.jospoortvl...@gmail.com, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 02 February 2011 21:17:58 Bryen M. Yunashko wrote: A couple of weeks ago, I made plans to personally order some stickers to attach to our Promo DVDs at the upcoming SCALE conference in Los Angeles. The event is 2 weeks prior to the release of 11.4. The focus of the sticker was clearly to provide an upgrade path for receivers of the promo DVD at SCALE. As I mentioned it to Manu, he offered to join in with me and design the label, which I gladly accepted his offer because I like seeing people jump in to help. We discussed it openly in the IRC channel and then other people saw and joined in. Unfortunately, for me, the discussion quickly changed to a very different focus and I'm having a bit of a difficult time justifying paying for the sticker in its present design, which is co-designed by Manu and Carlos. I really like the design. Very clean. Good job guys! Don't get me wrong, I think it is a very beautiful design, but it has a serious redundancy issue. In the sticker, I had wanted to point to http://en.opensuse.org//SDB:System_upgrade. Sure its an ugly URL but at least it got the users to the right place. Howeever, the discussion shifted to changing the URL to www.opensuse.org. My problem with this is that it is redundant because that URL is already on the DVD cover itself, plus it is on many other materials we will give out. And the focus changed also from experienced users to n00b users, which is not our primary audience. So, I would really like to rediscuss this label before I send it to the printers ASAP. I am honestly not comfortable paying for stickers that say what is already said elsewhere. Any thoughts, folks? Here's the sticker design by Carlos and Manu: http://en.opensuse.org/File:Card17CR.png I like the sticker but wonder where this was discussed, IRC I guess? Ok, my opinion for this would be simply - if this was meant to lead people to a site where they can upgrade from 11.3 to 11.4 (and I understand the need for that as SCALE is shortly before the 11.4 release so this is actually a brilliant idea) then the right link should be on there... Without it and having ppl go to opensuse.org to upgrade, well, they'll probably download a new DVD which is really a huge waste of our 11.3 one ;-) I agree that the URL pointing to upgrade is long and ugly, but it is readable and easily keyed into a browser. +1 due to the functional purpose of the upgrade URL. Thanks, Bryen +1 from me also :) anything that saves dvd's has to be a good thing, but at the same time distro upgrades can sometimes be unhappy so fresh install can be required.. -- Kind Regards Stuart Tanner Bolton Linux 24 Vincent Street Bolton BL1 4SA Tel: +44(0)1204 410474 Mob: +44(0)7868 028028 www.bolin.org.uk Distributing openSUSE in the UK Registered Linux User: 529825 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 22:57:02 Adrian Schröter wrote: Am Mittwoch, 2. Februar 2011, 22:31:18 schrieb Jos Poortvliet: On Wednesday 02 February 2011 22:20:00 Nelson Marques wrote: On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: I personally don't see it as a big issue directly - the only issue with it is that people clearly assume the openSUSE Build Service is there to Build openSUSE Software. If people see it that way, maybe it's marketing failure? As you state and I quote: «hat people clearly assume the openSUSE Build Service is there to Buil openSUSE Software.» This only points failure on marketing practices, marketing efforts are failing in passing the message, but in reality, it's not actually far from the reality. OBS plays it's role, it enables all the contents distributed in openSUSE Linux distribution. Yes, it is failing marketing: choosing a wrong name, duh. openSUSE Build Service as a name quite strongly suggests that it's for openSUSE... And that is the problem. Surely OBS does that, but it does more - and the name doesn't support that. It IS a marketing failure. Interestingly enough, at LCA I attended a talk by a Red Hat developer about KOJI. It's Red Hat's/Fedora's build service. It's massively worse than OBS - you CAN build packages for other distro's but it's quite hard. The whole thing is much harder to use, can't cross-compile for other platforms and has to run on your own machine. Still, many people were interested in it. And part of that is because the name doesn't signal any distro-specificity. Just my 2cent on this: * I think when using the just the term OBS more strictly and avoiding the full name, the problem would reduce a lot. Well, ppl always want to know what it means - and open (or openSUSE) build service is a good start of an explanation. So I don't think this will really solve the issue. * A rename should always consider the available DNS domains ;) hehehe yes, that is true... But doesn't openbuildservice.org already redirect to build.opensuse.org? Seems like we could go for that name then... Yes? * OBS as term itself is actually less import for the end users. They just see the result. A reason why the PPA term from ubuntu is so intrusive. True, for end-users the whole thing is very different. But this was mostly prompted by the issue with explaining this to packagers and other more technical people... IMHO we need to finished this feature ASAP: https://features.opensuse.org/310109 and we need to find a cool and marketing-able name for (similar to 1-click- install). This would reach way more people (in best case also some non openSUSE users) and we have the chance in the second step to educate them also better about OBS. We will grow afterwards. This feature just waits for a web developer since a longer time creating a good proposal. The pure coding part will be realtive minimal, I think. Awesome idea for sure, and yes, it needs a good marketing name :D Have fun on FOSDEM Thanks. We'll miss you... adrian signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Upgrade Label for Promo DVDs
On Thursday 03 February 2011 01:20:48 Stuart Tanner wrote: On Wednesday 02 Feb 2011 23:34:00 Alan Clark wrote: On 2/2/2011 at 02:56 PM, in message 201102022256.43382.jospoortvl...@gmail.com, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 02 February 2011 21:17:58 Bryen M. Yunashko wrote: A couple of weeks ago, I made plans to personally order some stickers to attach to our Promo DVDs at the upcoming SCALE conference in Los Angeles. The event is 2 weeks prior to the release of 11.4. The focus of the sticker was clearly to provide an upgrade path for receivers of the promo DVD at SCALE. As I mentioned it to Manu, he offered to join in with me and design the label, which I gladly accepted his offer because I like seeing people jump in to help. We discussed it openly in the IRC channel and then other people saw and joined in. Unfortunately, for me, the discussion quickly changed to a very different focus and I'm having a bit of a difficult time justifying paying for the sticker in its present design, which is co-designed by Manu and Carlos. I really like the design. Very clean. Good job guys! Don't get me wrong, I think it is a very beautiful design, but it has a serious redundancy issue. In the sticker, I had wanted to point to http://en.opensuse.org//SDB:System_upgrade. Sure its an ugly URL but at least it got the users to the right place. Howeever, the discussion shifted to changing the URL to www.opensuse.org. My problem with this is that it is redundant because that URL is already on the DVD cover itself, plus it is on many other materials we will give out. And the focus changed also from experienced users to n00b users, which is not our primary audience. So, I would really like to rediscuss this label before I send it to the printers ASAP. I am honestly not comfortable paying for stickers that say what is already said elsewhere. Any thoughts, folks? Here's the sticker design by Carlos and Manu: http://en.opensuse.org/File:Card17CR.png I like the sticker but wonder where this was discussed, IRC I guess? Ok, my opinion for this would be simply - if this was meant to lead people to a site where they can upgrade from 11.3 to 11.4 (and I understand the need for that as SCALE is shortly before the 11.4 release so this is actually a brilliant idea) then the right link should be on there... Without it and having ppl go to opensuse.org to upgrade, well, they'll probably download a new DVD which is really a huge waste of our 11.3 one ;-) I agree that the URL pointing to upgrade is long and ugly, but it is readable and easily keyed into a browser. +1 due to the functional purpose of the upgrade URL. Thanks, Bryen +1 from me also :) anything that saves dvd's has to be a good thing, but at the same time distro upgrades can sometimes be unhappy so fresh install can be required.. And the URL also promotes the fact we HAVE this upgrade path: a lot of people still think you HAVE to reinstall openSUSE every 8 months, we need to work on changing that perception. This would help! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [opensuse-marketing] strange feeling
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 23:17:29 Stuart Tanner wrote: On Wednesday 02 Feb 2011 22:04:41 jdd wrote: did somebody do a wish that get fullfilled? did Santa Claus or St Niclos drop something in our fireplace? I get the feeling openSUSE in becoming a hive, maturing as if spring is coming early? I see a lot of things growing like never did!! great. thanks all!! jdd Whats top of your christmas list then? Don;t know what it is but for some reason today my laptop can't keep up with me typing and seriously its a dual-core laptop running 64bit edition with 4gb of ram - so I seriously need to investigate what is causing the slow down its annoying! I haven't seen it this slow since I was using Citrix at work years ago! Na, all the energy recently in marketing and openSUSE in general just makes you want to type much faster than your laptop can handle ;-) He, I agree with JDD, things are going cool, I like it too :D signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Fwd: flyer
On Tuesday 01 February 2011 08:20:51 jdd wrote: Le 01/02/2011 01:40, Carlos Ribeiro a écrit : You can see files here http://lh5.ggpht.com/_VHXcnKwu3gs/TUdTl4eWH0I/EOE/KNL7LeYhpDI/s72 0/FlyerCR.jpg http://lh3.ggpht.com/_VHXcnKwu3gs/TUdTt3gwZLI/EOI/Zpkfk1OvdrY/s7 20/FlyerCR02small.jpg http://lh6.ggpht.com/_VHXcnKwu3gs/TUdT6E7yVNI/EOM/AB0RwQSls50/s7 20/FlyerCR03small.jpg the medium one (CR02) is the one I like the best, however, if ink come in impportance, may be a version like the first one will be cheaper? And I would like better what is cool around openSUSE, because the flyer speaks more of what we add as a community then what is cool in the distro itself (see the wiki) jdd I agree with master jdd. Jacqueline, I think we should put 10 or 20 of these into each ambassador kit! Carlos, it would be nice if you could make one with color too and have a PDF somewhere, easier to print I think... Could you, if you manage to make it quickly, send it to Jacqueline? Otherwise the version you made on picassaweb in the other links you send to Kostas is very usable and could go live! darn, this is really awesome work, Carlos-man, I love you ;-) (don't tell camila) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [opensuse-marketing] SCALE SoCal Linux Expo --- Howdy - What's up? Anything I can do?
On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 14:45 -0800, Tony Su wrote: From San Diego, Tony San Diego! Hmm... You know... I have a feeling you would make for a great organizer for the 11.4 Launch Party in San Diego around March 10. I'll be in San Diego during that week and possibly one other person on our team might be in the area that week too. We should think about planning to host a Launch Party. What do you say? Sure I'm pulling you right into the thick of things... but I suspect you wouldn't have it any other way! :-D Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Upgrade Label for Promo DVDs
People, I think I can help Bryen to justify paying for stickers, see the new template, little different but keeping the approved design with the upgrade url http://en.opensuse.org/File:Card18C.png Em Qui, 2011-02-03 às 01:34 +0100, Jos Poortvliet escreveu: On Thursday 03 February 2011 01:20:48 Stuart Tanner wrote: On Wednesday 02 Feb 2011 23:34:00 Alan Clark wrote: On 2/2/2011 at 02:56 PM, in message 201102022256.43382.jospoortvl...@gmail.com, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 02 February 2011 21:17:58 Bryen M. Yunashko wrote: A couple of weeks ago, I made plans to personally order some stickers to attach to our Promo DVDs at the upcoming SCALE conference in Los Angeles. The event is 2 weeks prior to the release of 11.4. The focus of the sticker was clearly to provide an upgrade path for receivers of the promo DVD at SCALE. As I mentioned it to Manu, he offered to join in with me and design the label, which I gladly accepted his offer because I like seeing people jump in to help. We discussed it openly in the IRC channel and then other people saw and joined in. Unfortunately, for me, the discussion quickly changed to a very different focus and I'm having a bit of a difficult time justifying paying for the sticker in its present design, which is co-designed by Manu and Carlos. I really like the design. Very clean. Good job guys! Don't get me wrong, I think it is a very beautiful design, but it has a serious redundancy issue. In the sticker, I had wanted to point to http://en.opensuse.org//SDB:System_upgrade. Sure its an ugly URL but at least it got the users to the right place. Howeever, the discussion shifted to changing the URL to www.opensuse.org. My problem with this is that it is redundant because that URL is already on the DVD cover itself, plus it is on many other materials we will give out. And the focus changed also from experienced users to n00b users, which is not our primary audience. So, I would really like to rediscuss this label before I send it to the printers ASAP. I am honestly not comfortable paying for stickers that say what is already said elsewhere. Any thoughts, folks? Here's the sticker design by Carlos and Manu: http://en.opensuse.org/File:Card17CR.png I like the sticker but wonder where this was discussed, IRC I guess? Ok, my opinion for this would be simply - if this was meant to lead people to a site where they can upgrade from 11.3 to 11.4 (and I understand the need for that as SCALE is shortly before the 11.4 release so this is actually a brilliant idea) then the right link should be on there... Without it and having ppl go to opensuse.org to upgrade, well, they'll probably download a new DVD which is really a huge waste of our 11.3 one ;-) I agree that the URL pointing to upgrade is long and ugly, but it is readable and easily keyed into a browser. +1 due to the functional purpose of the upgrade URL. Thanks, Bryen +1 from me also :) anything that saves dvd's has to be a good thing, but at the same time distro upgrades can sometimes be unhappy so fresh install can be required.. And the URL also promotes the fact we HAVE this upgrade path: a lot of people still think you HAVE to reinstall openSUSE every 8 months, we need to work on changing that perception. This would help! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] strange feeling
On Wednesday, February 02, 2011 07:34:56 PM Jos Poortvliet wrote: On Wednesday 02 February 2011 23:17:29 Stuart Tanner wrote: On Wednesday 02 Feb 2011 22:04:41 jdd wrote: did somebody do a wish that get fullfilled? did Santa Claus or St Niclos drop something in our fireplace? I get the feeling openSUSE in becoming a hive, maturing as if spring is coming early? I see a lot of things growing like never did!! great. thanks all!! jdd Whats top of your christmas list then? Don;t know what it is but for some reason today my laptop can't keep up with me typing and seriously its a dual-core laptop running 64bit edition with 4gb of ram - so I seriously need to investigate what is causing the slow down its annoying! I haven't seen it this slow since I was using Citrix at work years ago! Na, all the energy recently in marketing and openSUSE in general just makes you want to type much faster than your laptop can handle ;-) He, I agree with JDD, things are going cool, I like it too :D Post Xtmas wish it is coming true. openSUSE Project is very active and growing from different areas and worldwide. People I have heard long time ago is coming back with fresh ideas and working smoothly. openSUSE 11.4 Milestone 6 is getting prettier, more stable and functional. All the teams are very active by different channels and highly cooperative. It great to be here with all of you ! -- Ricardo Chung | openSUSE Linux Ambassador Panama Testing version 11.4 Milestone 6, KDE 4.6.00, Mesa-Nouveau 3D -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Upgrade Label for Promo DVDs
On Wednesday, February 02, 2011 09:32:45 PM Carlos Ribeiro wrote: People, I think I can help Bryen to justify paying for stickers, see the new template, little different but keeping the approved design with the upgrade url http://en.opensuse.org/File:Card18C.png Em Qui, 2011-02-03 às 01:34 +0100, Jos Poortvliet escreveu: On Thursday 03 February 2011 01:20:48 Stuart Tanner wrote: On Wednesday 02 Feb 2011 23:34:00 Alan Clark wrote: On 2/2/2011 at 02:56 PM, in message 201102022256.43382.jospoortvl...@gmail.com, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvl...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 02 February 2011 21:17:58 Bryen M. Yunashko wrote: A couple of weeks ago, I made plans to personally order some stickers to attach to our Promo DVDs at the upcoming SCALE conference in Los Angeles. The event is 2 weeks prior to the release of 11.4. The focus of the sticker was clearly to provide an upgrade path for receivers of the promo DVD at SCALE. As I mentioned it to Manu, he offered to join in with me and design the label, which I gladly accepted his offer because I like seeing people jump in to help. We discussed it openly in the IRC channel and then other people saw and joined in. Unfortunately, for me, the discussion quickly changed to a very different focus and I'm having a bit of a difficult time justifying paying for the sticker in its present design, which is co-designed by Manu and Carlos. I really like the design. Very clean. Good job guys! Don't get me wrong, I think it is a very beautiful design, but it has a serious redundancy issue. In the sticker, I had wanted to point to http://en.opensuse.org//SDB:System_upgrade. Sure its an ugly URL but at least it got the users to the right place. Howeever, the discussion shifted to changing the URL to www.opensuse.org. My problem with this is that it is redundant because that URL is already on the DVD cover itself, plus it is on many other materials we will give out. And the focus changed also from experienced users to n00b users, which is not our primary audience. So, I would really like to rediscuss this label before I send it to the printers ASAP. I am honestly not comfortable paying for stickers that say what is already said elsewhere. Any thoughts, folks? Here's the sticker design by Carlos and Manu: http://en.opensuse.org/File:Card17CR.png I like the sticker but wonder where this was discussed, IRC I guess? Ok, my opinion for this would be simply - if this was meant to lead people to a site where they can upgrade from 11.3 to 11.4 (and I understand the need for that as SCALE is shortly before the 11.4 release so this is actually a brilliant idea) then the right link should be on there... Without it and having ppl go to opensuse.org to upgrade, well, they'll probably download a new DVD which is really a huge waste of our 11.3 one ;-) I agree that the URL pointing to upgrade is long and ugly, but it is readable and easily keyed into a browser. +1 due to the functional purpose of the upgrade URL. Thanks, Bryen +1 from me also :) anything that saves dvd's has to be a good thing, but at the same time distro upgrades can sometimes be unhappy so fresh install can be required.. And the URL also promotes the fact we HAVE this upgrade path: a lot of people still think you HAVE to reinstall openSUSE every 8 months, we need to work on changing that perception. This would help! Carlos, This is a beautiful improvement focusing on upgrade. I was out for a few days on and off. -- Ricardo Chung | openSUSE Linux Ambassador Panama Testing version 11.4 Milestone 6, KDE 4.6.00, Mesa-Nouveau 3D -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] SCALE SoCal Linux Expo --- Howdy - What's up? Anything I can do?
Cool! Have you gotten the word to the local Linux communities in San Diego or do you need someone to do that? Tony On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Bryen M. Yunashko susero...@bryen.com wrote: On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 14:45 -0800, Tony Su wrote: From San Diego, Tony San Diego! Hmm... You know... I have a feeling you would make for a great organizer for the 11.4 Launch Party in San Diego around March 10. I'll be in San Diego during that week and possibly one other person on our team might be in the area that week too. We should think about planning to host a Launch Party. What do you say? Sure I'm pulling you right into the thick of things... but I suspect you wouldn't have it any other way! :-D Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Fwd: [opensuse-marketing] openSUSE vs. Fedora
Whoever the ListAdmin is, it should be an easy fix to fix this mis-configuration where the default recipient for a Reply is the original sender and not the List daemon. So, resending this message to the List... Tony -- Forwarded message -- From: Tony Su ton...@su-networking.com Date: Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [opensuse-marketing] openSUSE vs. Fedora To: jdd j...@dodin.org Actually, I've been dealing with a lot of this in the Forums Tech help in the past year or so. Today's kernel is actually a more basic, generic image plus various modules which can be optionally loaded at various times... And I'm seeing numerous differences between different distros on hardware support at least partly in what modules and higher level applications used to interact with the hardware. A case in point, one reason why I'm using OpenSUSE is the ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture) on my primary laptop. Debian/Ubuntu doesn't use ALSA, and their sound architecture doesn't work on my machine. Also, although i wouldn't by any stretch of imagination consider myself an expert, but I also know that OpenSUSE is built slightly differently implementing things like update-alternatives to point to one of multiple similar libraries. And, don't forget GRUB for the moment although it's probably a topic to be avoided until v11.4, OpenSUSE 11.3 and earlier is using legacy GRUB which has recently evolved into something fairly unique to OpenSUSE. So, I would probably word it this way... Because OpenSUSE is quick to adopt and integrate updates and improvements by its component partners, the User will benefit by experiencing fewer hardware compatibility issues with best performance possible. Tony On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 11:36 PM, jdd j...@dodin.org wrote: Le 02/02/2011 00:46, Jos Poortvliet a écrit : I wanted to point out things which are unique to openSUSE. Frankly, I don't believe there are huge differences in ease of use, administration capabilities and hardware support between the major distro's... hardware support is mostly kernel, so yes this part is probably shared. But hardware setup is not. and there we are not always first (mandriva find always my printer, openSUSE never, and it's simply a network HP laser, pretty common) for example the openSUSE partitionner is unparallel with parted! jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Upgrade Label for Promo DVDs
Just my recommendation, is there any way to beautify the URL by simply changing from http://en.opensuse.org//SDB:System_upgrade to something like Upgrade-to-11.4-Now/opensuse.org In other words, it's a simple DNS entry plus possible webserver root modification or re-direct to put the whatever string in front of the organization domain name, and IMO there's probably more friendly names than the SDB string.. Tony On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Bryen M. Yunashko susero...@bryen.com wrote: A couple of weeks ago, I made plans to personally order some stickers to attach to our Promo DVDs at the upcoming SCALE conference in Los Angeles. The event is 2 weeks prior to the release of 11.4. The focus of the sticker was clearly to provide an upgrade path for receivers of the promo DVD at SCALE. As I mentioned it to Manu, he offered to join in with me and design the label, which I gladly accepted his offer because I like seeing people jump in to help. We discussed it openly in the IRC channel and then other people saw and joined in. Unfortunately, for me, the discussion quickly changed to a very different focus and I'm having a bit of a difficult time justifying paying for the sticker in its present design, which is co-designed by Manu and Carlos. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a very beautiful design, but it has a serious redundancy issue. In the sticker, I had wanted to point to http://en.opensuse.org//SDB:System_upgrade. Sure its an ugly URL but at least it got the users to the right place. Howeever, the discussion shifted to changing the URL to www.opensuse.org. My problem with this is that it is redundant because that URL is already on the DVD cover itself, plus it is on many other materials we will give out. And the focus changed also from experienced users to n00b users, which is not our primary audience. So, I would really like to rediscuss this label before I send it to the printers ASAP. I am honestly not comfortable paying for stickers that say what is already said elsewhere. Any thoughts, folks? Here's the sticker design by Carlos and Manu: http://en.opensuse.org/File:Card17CR.png Thanks, Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Upgrade Label for Promo DVDs
Just my recommendation, is there any way to beautify the URL by simply changing from http://en.opensuse.org//SDB:System_upgrade to something like Upgrade-to-11.4-Now/opensuse.org In other words, it's a simple DNS entry plus possible webserver root modification or re-direct to put the whatever string in front of the organization domain name, and IMO there's probably more friendly names than the SDB string.. Tony On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Bryen M. Yunashko susero...@bryen.com wrote: A couple of weeks ago, I made plans to personally order some stickers to attach to our Promo DVDs at the upcoming SCALE conference in Los Angeles. The event is 2 weeks prior to the release of 11.4. The focus of the sticker was clearly to provide an upgrade path for receivers of the promo DVD at SCALE. As I mentioned it to Manu, he offered to join in with me and design the label, which I gladly accepted his offer because I like seeing people jump in to help. We discussed it openly in the IRC channel and then other people saw and joined in. Unfortunately, for me, the discussion quickly changed to a very different focus and I'm having a bit of a difficult time justifying paying for the sticker in its present design, which is co-designed by Manu and Carlos. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a very beautiful design, but it has a serious redundancy issue. In the sticker, I had wanted to point to http://en.opensuse.org//SDB:System_upgrade. Sure its an ugly URL but at least it got the users to the right place. Howeever, the discussion shifted to changing the URL to www.opensuse.org. My problem with this is that it is redundant because that URL is already on the DVD cover itself, plus it is on many other materials we will give out. And the focus changed also from experienced users to n00b users, which is not our primary audience. So, I would really like to rediscuss this label before I send it to the printers ASAP. I am honestly not comfortable paying for stickers that say what is already said elsewhere. Any thoughts, folks? Here's the sticker design by Carlos and Manu: http://en.opensuse.org/File:Card17CR.png Thanks, Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] SCALE SoCal Linux Expo --- Howdy - What's up? Anything I can do?
On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 19:30 -0800, Tony Su wrote: Cool! Have you gotten the word to the local Linux communities in San Diego or do you need someone to do that? Tony Please try not to top-post. it's considered bad form for a mailing list. :-) I have not reached out to anyone in San Diego yet. Except for you. I'm actually coming to San Diego to prepare for another conference (unrelated to openSUSE) that runs from March 14-19. And I expect to be arriving in San Diego around the 8th or 9th. I'd like to put you in charge of making those arrangements. And even more, reaching out to other openSUSE users in the area to come join us. It is a much better long-term goal to have the locals run the launch party than me (a guest from Chicago) as we want the locals in all regions to take charge of the events and other areas of promotion. So, if you make the arrangements, I'll follow your lead and we'll confab on what we can do at that particular date. Cool with you? Bryen On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Bryen M. Yunashko susero...@bryen.com wrote: On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 14:45 -0800, Tony Su wrote: From San Diego, Tony San Diego! Hmm... You know... I have a feeling you would make for a great organizer for the 11.4 Launch Party in San Diego around March 10. I'll be in San Diego during that week and possibly one other person on our team might be in the area that week too. We should think about planning to host a Launch Party. What do you say? Sure I'm pulling you right into the thick of things... but I suspect you wouldn't have it any other way! :-D Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: [opensuse-marketing] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wednesday, February 02, 2011 03:44:00 pm Helen wrote: At what point did the Marketing team and OBS representatives have a round table and decide on the optimal branding for the build service? Is there an IRC log on that? OBS is much older then marketing effort :) This thread is the first attempt to take a look at this from marketing perspective. PS. OBS is suggesting OpenSUSE Build service. Some people are using oBS, but it seems they are minority. This discrepancy in practice should be another argument for Open Build Service (or otherwise it should be OpenSUSE :) -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
Re: Fwd: [opensuse-marketing] openSUSE vs. Fedora
I really like upgrade.opensuse.org, we can request this at opensuse-web ML Regards Manu On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 19:28 -0800, Tony Su wrote: Whoever the ListAdmin is, it should be an easy fix to fix this mis-configuration where the default recipient for a Reply is the original sender and not the List daemon. So, resending this message to the List... Tony -- Forwarded message -- From: Tony Su ton...@su-networking.com Date: Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [opensuse-marketing] openSUSE vs. Fedora To: jdd j...@dodin.org Actually, I've been dealing with a lot of this in the Forums Tech help in the past year or so. Today's kernel is actually a more basic, generic image plus various modules which can be optionally loaded at various times... And I'm seeing numerous differences between different distros on hardware support at least partly in what modules and higher level applications used to interact with the hardware. A case in point, one reason why I'm using OpenSUSE is the ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture) on my primary laptop. Debian/Ubuntu doesn't use ALSA, and their sound architecture doesn't work on my machine. Also, although i wouldn't by any stretch of imagination consider myself an expert, but I also know that OpenSUSE is built slightly differently implementing things like update-alternatives to point to one of multiple similar libraries. And, don't forget GRUB for the moment although it's probably a topic to be avoided until v11.4, OpenSUSE 11.3 and earlier is using legacy GRUB which has recently evolved into something fairly unique to OpenSUSE. So, I would probably word it this way... Because OpenSUSE is quick to adopt and integrate updates and improvements by its component partners, the User will benefit by experiencing fewer hardware compatibility issues with best performance possible. Tony On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 11:36 PM, jdd j...@dodin.org wrote: Le 02/02/2011 00:46, Jos Poortvliet a écrit : I wanted to point out things which are unique to openSUSE. Frankly, I don't believe there are huge differences in ease of use, administration capabilities and hardware support between the major distro's... hardware support is mostly kernel, so yes this part is probably shared. But hardware setup is not. and there we are not always first (mandriva find always my printer, openSUSE never, and it's simply a network HP laser, pretty common) for example the openSUSE partitionner is unparallel with parted! jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscr...@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+h...@opensuse.org
